WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.519 To some degree. We're all wrong right to some degree that no matter what 2 00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:10.000 you believe about the world, you're going to need to leave space to change 3 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:15.439 that belief because we're always getting new information. The world is always changing, 4 00:00:16.079 --> 00:00:21.000 interpretations are always changing, and new evidence presents itself. So we want to 5 00:00:21.000 --> 00:00:24.600 make sure we're leaving space for that, because to be really dogmatic in a 6 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:30.359 particular position, to hold that dogmatism makes you inflexible, It makes you unwilling 7 00:00:30.440 --> 00:00:35.560 to truly listen to what other people are saying. The Bible doesn't say a 8 00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:40.719 lot about nepheline, but this is in Genesis chapter six, when people began 9 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:45.479 to multiply on the face of the ground, and daughters were born to them. 10 00:00:46.000 --> 00:00:50.159 The sons of God saw that they were fair, and they took wives 11 00:00:50.159 --> 00:00:55.399 for themselves, of all that they chose. Then the Lord said, my 12 00:00:55.600 --> 00:01:00.759 spirit shall not abide in mortals forever, for they are flesh. Their days 13 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:06.879 shall be one hundred twenty years. The Nethelem were on the earth in those 14 00:01:07.000 --> 00:01:11.200 days, and also afterward, when the sons of God went into the daughters 15 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.719 of humans who bore children to them. These were the heroes that were of 16 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:22.079 old warriors of Renown. As I was riding along the road on my mule, 17 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.239 I suddenly noticed a very strange person walking beside me. His head was 18 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.799 about even with my shoulders as I sat in my saddle. He wore no 19 00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:34.599 clothing but was covered with hair. His skin was very dark. I asked 20 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.079 him where he dwelt, and he replied that he had no home, and 21 00:01:38.159 --> 00:01:41.959 that he was a wanderer in the earth and traveled to and fro. He 22 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.799 said he was a very miserable creature, and his mission was to destroy the 23 00:01:45.840 --> 00:02:25.439 souls of men. I'd like to welcome Nathan to Bigfoot Crossroads. We're going 24 00:02:25.479 --> 00:02:34.280 to talk about an aspect of Bigfoot, and the unexplained that it's something that 25 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.520 interested me for a long time. You certainly hear a lot about it. 26 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:44.360 It's kind of a certain I guess, a belief system at this point whenever 27 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:49.800 it comes to these subjects, especially in regards to Bigfoot. But we're going 28 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:58.639 to finally talk about the idea of Bigfoot being Nephelim from the Bible or possibly 29 00:02:58.879 --> 00:03:04.759 demonic in nature. Nathan, first of all, welcome to Bigfoot Crossroads. 30 00:03:05.199 --> 00:03:09.479 Thanks for joining me. Great to be here. Matt looking forward to this 31 00:03:09.919 --> 00:03:13.960 I've had it on my calendar for a while and I just can't wait to 32 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.520 get into it. Yeah. So I met you through a mutual friend, 33 00:03:16.599 --> 00:03:22.360 DJ, who's also been on the show. You co host a podcast with 34 00:03:22.439 --> 00:03:29.400 him called Calling All Beans Where, And that's beans as in beans, not 35 00:03:29.639 --> 00:03:35.000 beans as in what you put in Chile For anyone that if you make a 36 00:03:35.039 --> 00:03:37.360 good silly though, we're all about it. Bring it. Yeah, sure, 37 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:44.240 Calling All Beans. But you guys, what I thought was a UFO 38 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:50.360 podcast is really much more than a UFO podcast. Would you mind just telling 39 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:55.080 people what that podcast is about a little bit? Yeah? Absolutely. So 40 00:03:57.039 --> 00:04:02.039 we've been doing Calling All Beans now for years. And DJ and I met 41 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:10.000 really kind of by accident. He used to do podcasting focused on the NBA 42 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:13.639 and MMA. I had never podcasted before it all, but I had a 43 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:19.519 strong interest in the UFO phenomenon, and so through just a series of random 44 00:04:19.560 --> 00:04:25.319 accidents, we got connected to each other and decided to create a podcast together. 45 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:30.360 And we wanted to have a space where we could talk about UFOs, 46 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:34.360 talk about the paranormal, talk about Bigfoot, talk about weird things that people 47 00:04:34.439 --> 00:04:40.120 experience in their life, and have that be a space that can be comfortable 48 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:45.879 and welcoming and validating and also thought provoking. So we tried very hard to 49 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:49.360 have a good time on the show, to make space for weird things and 50 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:55.040 weird ideas. We bring on some folks that neither he nor I necessarily always 51 00:04:55.079 --> 00:04:59.480 agree with, But the goal is just to have an interesting conversation, and 52 00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:01.720 the best way to do that, at least for us, was to do 53 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:04.839 that through a podcast, particularly when you live in a world now where we 54 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:11.199 can easily connect with folks from everywhere through these digital tools. So we're doing 55 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.920 that and it has taken us into some interesting territory, certainly not the traditional 56 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:24.399 UFO only focused podcast. We're looking at that wide range of phenomenological experience, 57 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:30.759 and I think that's important because for me these personally, if you can't have 58 00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:36.319 an approach to reality that tries to incorporate or make sense of the weird things 59 00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:43.160 that are happening in human experience, then you're just by default you're leaving something 60 00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.319 out. So we're trying not to leave something out. We're trying to have 61 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:48.720 a cast a wide net and try to make sense of that. And it's 62 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:54.519 difficult, particularly if you want to sort of pigeonhole everything into one theory, 63 00:05:54.879 --> 00:05:58.360 which we try hard not to do. So we're kind of doing a wide 64 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:04.240 collection and fun talking about it and leaving space for different theories, different ideas, 65 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:09.839 different guests. It's a fun format and we're really kind of just getting 66 00:06:09.839 --> 00:06:13.600 started, even though we really we just finished our one hundred and second episode. 67 00:06:14.759 --> 00:06:19.240 Yeah, congratulations on reaching that one hundredth episode milestone and just cruising right 68 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:25.480 on by it. Yeah. Thanks. You know, I've spent some time 69 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:30.600 sitting in with you guys on the podcast, and it was an amazing experience 70 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.240 for me, first off, being able to kind of put my feet up 71 00:06:34.240 --> 00:06:40.720 and relax a bit whenever I'm on a podcast. Don't get to do that 72 00:06:40.839 --> 00:06:46.319 much whenever you're hosting. But you guys really do a fantastic job of keeping 73 00:06:46.360 --> 00:06:53.160 an open dialogue and allowing people to express their beliefs and their theories and their 74 00:06:53.199 --> 00:07:01.600 opinions without making them feel defensive or challenged by expressing those things. And that's 75 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:08.720 very difficult to do because these topics can be very personal, I think, 76 00:07:08.759 --> 00:07:14.160 to people, and because of that, they form their own opinions and theories 77 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:18.759 and their own beliefs, and they get kind of caught in that rut of 78 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:27.920 just staying in that lane and putting those blinders on and in turn a lot 79 00:07:28.000 --> 00:07:33.319 of times get angry whenever somebody challenges that. But on your show, like 80 00:07:33.399 --> 00:07:38.720 I said, you do a great job of having that open dialogue where people 81 00:07:38.839 --> 00:07:45.759 don't get into those areas and get the feelings hurt and turn it into a 82 00:07:45.800 --> 00:07:53.759 brawl on air like it happens a lot of times in other areas. Yeah, 83 00:07:53.759 --> 00:07:57.199 I appreciate that we do try hard to do that. It's not easy 84 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:01.800 all the time. Sometimes you have to kind of small mile through it if 85 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:05.680 you're hearing something that you strongly disagree with. And that's not to say that 86 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:09.240 we're not willing to have a constructive dialogue about it. I think we are 87 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:16.279 willing to do that. But there's a recognition that we have anyway that to 88 00:08:16.360 --> 00:08:20.199 some degree we're all wrong right to some degree, that no matter what you 89 00:08:20.279 --> 00:08:26.680 believe about the world, you're going to need to leave space to change that 90 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:35.159 belief because we're always getting new information where the world is always changing, interpretations 91 00:08:35.159 --> 00:08:39.480 are always changing, and new evidence presents itself. So we want to make 92 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.720 sure we're leaving space for that, because to be really dogmatic in a particular 93 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:48.720 position. At least, this is my position to hold that dogmatism makes you 94 00:08:48.759 --> 00:08:54.960 inflexible, it makes you unwilling to truly listen to what other people are saying. 95 00:08:56.080 --> 00:08:58.399 And that's something that we're really lacking a lot of in the world today, 96 00:08:58.519 --> 00:09:03.320 listening. We're really wanting to get our points in and not listen to 97 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:05.600 what others are saying. So we're trying hard to do that, to listen 98 00:09:05.639 --> 00:09:11.519 first and get into a dialogue and hopefully grow in that process of exchange. 99 00:09:13.840 --> 00:09:18.879 So DJ found me through the Bigfoot World, listening to the podcast and just 100 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.200 being DJ and not being Batchel at all and just reaching out and talking to 101 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:30.639 him. Now, if I remember correctly, DJ actually got into bigfoot stuff 102 00:09:30.679 --> 00:09:37.320 because of you. That's right, So I apologize, Yeah, thanks for 103 00:09:37.399 --> 00:09:43.519 unleashing him on the Bigfoot world. Of course the nature. But you know, 104 00:09:45.000 --> 00:09:48.279 it wouldn't be fair of me to do a Bigfoot podcast without asking why 105 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:54.039 the interest in bigfoot on your part. That's a really good question. It's 106 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.960 something a lot like UFOs in the sense that it's something I had a lifelong 107 00:10:00.080 --> 00:10:05.519 interest in. Certainly as a young person, I was fascinated by stories about 108 00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:11.440 Bigfoot. I've not had a bigfoot experience myself. I've been camping, been 109 00:10:11.480 --> 00:10:16.600 out in the wilderness, never had something happen that I could kind of put 110 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:22.159 into that bucket. But I was fascinated by these stories that were shared in 111 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:26.480 my childhood, both in literature that i'd pick up from the school library and 112 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.000 also on TV. You know that those episodes that we all kind of grew 113 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:35.399 up with of mysterious things that had been reported in the world, and I 114 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.559 kind of did what a lot of people do. You know, you have 115 00:10:37.639 --> 00:10:41.240 that fascination, you put it kind of back on the shelf as you get 116 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.679 a little bit older, unless you have a personal experience with it. That's 117 00:10:45.799 --> 00:10:52.919 kind of where it stays. Well getting into UFOs for me, some correlation 118 00:10:52.039 --> 00:11:00.120 here is that I take very seriously what people say, and doesn't mean I 119 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:01.960 take it at face value, but I do take it seriously. And when 120 00:11:03.000 --> 00:11:07.600 I know people who've had experiences, whether they've had an experience of something strange 121 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:13.440 in the sky or strange beside their bed, or strange in the forest, 122 00:11:15.039 --> 00:11:18.120 and I know these people personally and I know their character, their history, 123 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:24.080 I take it very seriously. I think you have to there was certainly a 124 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.720 time in my life where I didn't do that, and I would kind of 125 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.679 brush it off. And I think we're all pretty good about brushing off things 126 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.759 that sort of fall outside that consensus reality that we all share. You know, 127 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.039 that doesn't make sense for me. Nobody that I know has that experience, 128 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:41.879 so therefore it cannot be true, or I'm just ignore what you just 129 00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:45.879 said. That's kind of what we typically do, right, But I had 130 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:50.279 someone that shared experience with me, a very profound one that he had had, 131 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:56.480 and I couldn't ignore it. And he then sent me an episode. 132 00:11:56.519 --> 00:12:00.679 I forget exactly which one it was or what show was on, but it 133 00:12:00.759 --> 00:12:05.799 was about the vocalizations. It was about the man who had the training in 134 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.159 languages and listening to these vocalizations. And I'm sure you know what I'm talking 135 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:15.200 about. Your listeners probably do as well. I mean, it was absolutely 136 00:12:15.240 --> 00:12:18.399 riveting to me just listening to that content. And so I was in the 137 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.240 airport when I was listening to this episode, coming back from a trip, 138 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.799 and I sent that to DJ and you got to listen to this man. 139 00:12:24.840 --> 00:12:31.320 This is this is a tense and he has caught the bug even bigger than 140 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.399 I had it man. He as you know, he is bigfoot all the 141 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:41.080 way gassed down. He's very into it. Yeah, for sure, contacts 142 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:45.480 me several times a week to have me either listen to something or ask me 143 00:12:45.559 --> 00:12:50.440 about someone or a story, get my take on it, you know which 144 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:56.879 geez, I feel like the bitter old man sometimes, you know, having 145 00:12:56.159 --> 00:13:01.759 been involved in this for so long, and you know, you build up 146 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:09.000 pretty strong callouses whenever it comes to anecdotal stories and podcast episodes, and it's 147 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:13.799 just like I don't always give him the opinion that he wants to hear, 148 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:22.120 which has led to some fantastic debates. But I'm glad that I've met DJ 149 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.440 in a time of my life whenever I have, because honestly, ten years 150 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:30.759 ago, I would have just said, hey, you're an idiot. You 151 00:13:30.799 --> 00:13:33.720 don't know what you're talking about. I know more than you. Shut up. 152 00:13:33.720 --> 00:13:41.039 Now, sometimes he does get me to start thinking about things and looking 153 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:43.480 at things from a different perspective and kind of opens my eyes a bit. 154 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:50.320 So it's nice to have people like DJ take an interest in the subject who 155 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:56.519 aren't viewing it, you know, with just a negative angle all the time 156 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:05.159 and allowing for conversations to take place. So I'm glad you introduced him to 157 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:07.120 the topic. All kidding aside, I'm glad he reached out to me. 158 00:14:09.480 --> 00:14:15.600 I've become very good friends with him. I consider you a friend. I 159 00:14:15.639 --> 00:14:20.120 feel very benefited by the introductions that he has made in my life and the 160 00:14:20.200 --> 00:14:28.480 input he has added. But enough about DJ Jeez, Yeah, exactly, 161 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:41.360 He's so yeah. Whenever you're talking about people being firm in their beliefs and 162 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:48.200 not wanting to listen, and it doesn't get anymore so than whenever it comes 163 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:54.039 to religion. It's such a strong topic for people, an emotional topic. 164 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:05.759 It's to me, always been a dangerous area to discuss openly. At least 165 00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:13.559 over the recent years, it has started becoming more and more popular in the 166 00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:20.559 Bigfoot world. I even see comments on my own episodes where I'm not talking 167 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.639 about anything religious, I'm not proposing anything, and I see in the comments 168 00:15:24.679 --> 00:15:31.399 sometimes people saying these things are demons or these things are this, and just 169 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:35.000 making these matter of fact statements. And whenever it comes to that stuff. 170 00:15:37.639 --> 00:15:41.879 I do consider myself a Christian. That's my own personal faith. I don't 171 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:48.159 talk about it a lot on the podcast, but I will be the first 172 00:15:48.159 --> 00:15:54.440 one to admit that whenever it comes to specific things in the Bible and certain 173 00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:58.840 questions and things, a lot of times my opinions don't line up with fellow 174 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:07.200 questions in terms of interpretation and what certain things mean. And so I thought 175 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:12.519 it'd be a good idea to default to someone like yourself. So, starting 176 00:16:12.559 --> 00:16:18.399 out, if you don't mind, could you give a little bit of your 177 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:23.240 background in terms of religious studies and everything as it pertains to this subject matter 178 00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.440 and why I might have someone like you on the podcast to talk about this. 179 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:32.799 Sure, yeah, I'd be happy to do that. So I grew 180 00:16:32.840 --> 00:16:37.080 up in a Christian family. My father was a Baptist minister. So I 181 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.000 like to joke that before I was born, I was going to church Sundays 182 00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:48.159 and Wednesdays every week. And as I grew up in that culture, being 183 00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:53.039 a fixture of the church and heavily involved doing all the youth group activities and 184 00:16:53.360 --> 00:17:00.159 choir, and I was all in in the church life. My dad, 185 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:04.759 I mentioned he was a Baptist minister. How many folks realized that the Baptist 186 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:11.440 tradition in the United States has kind of a complex history, and in the 187 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:17.200 late nineteen seventies. I guess this was probably right around before I was born. 188 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:25.160 There was a sort of schism in the Baptist denomination in the US between 189 00:17:25.559 --> 00:17:33.400 kind of the more fundamentalist Baptists and those who I guess would call themselves progressive 190 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.680 Baptists or more liberal Baptist minded folks. Anyway, bring that up because my 191 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:42.519 father, when he went to seminary got his degree, is a PhD in 192 00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:49.519 New Testament, So he got his degree from a Baptist institution. That institution 193 00:17:49.960 --> 00:17:59.680 was more firmly within the progressive liberal perspective, and when this schism took place, 194 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.519 the church really sort of fragmented. The leadership changed within the denomination to 195 00:18:03.640 --> 00:18:07.799 more of that fundamentalist perspective, and that was kind of a pretty sad moment 196 00:18:07.920 --> 00:18:14.039 in his life. And I think from then on had to deal with the 197 00:18:14.079 --> 00:18:19.559 consequences of a Baptist community that not always understood its past, but was wrestling 198 00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:26.000 with some of those issues below the surface, sometimes on the surface. So 199 00:18:26.119 --> 00:18:30.640 I grew up in that context, going to church regularly, but getting a 200 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:37.640 very kind of academic perspective on the faith. You know, my dad can 201 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:42.039 read the Greek New Testament, so I would always get interesting tidbits about well, 202 00:18:42.079 --> 00:18:45.640 in the Greek this is what it means. It's a little bit more 203 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.920 sort of robust than it is in the English translation. And we'll get into 204 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.880 some of that too, I think when we talk about the nepheline. So 205 00:18:56.279 --> 00:19:00.759 that was my childhood. I went to school, got it are in finance, 206 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:06.119 totally unrelated to do religion, but you know, very practical and if 207 00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:10.119 I I should have something that would be useful in the world. But as 208 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:14.680 I kind of got toward the end of my college experience, I really felt 209 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:19.200 like I needed to understand my faith in a deeper way. I felt if 210 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:25.519 you're a Christian, I felt called to pursue that further. So I went 211 00:19:25.559 --> 00:19:32.880 to seminary after I finished my undergraduate So I went to a Baptist seminary in 212 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.480 Georgia, but a progressive Baptist seminary, and my professors were in some cases 213 00:19:37.599 --> 00:19:42.000 colleagues of my father who went to the same schools that he went to, 214 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:47.599 and even some of his own professors were teaching me. So it was a 215 00:19:47.599 --> 00:19:52.000 small seminary and we got that kind of education and I really enjoyed it. 216 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:59.839 I love talking about religion, theology, ideas philosophy. But I realized pretty 217 00:19:59.839 --> 00:20:07.359 early on into that experience that the Christianity that that I thought was so important 218 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:15.839 to me was kind of one aspect of a larger picture. When you study 219 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:22.720 Christian theology, you realize that what these theologians are doing over the centuries is 220 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.480 they're taking the world that they live in and the world that they were born 221 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:33.200 in, and they're trying to bring the Christian text into that world and really 222 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.359 translate it in a way that the world of their day can understand. So 223 00:20:37.440 --> 00:20:44.039 these theologies, some of which if you are a Christian believer, no matter 224 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:48.279 what church you go to or denomination you go to, you have a theological 225 00:20:48.359 --> 00:20:52.880 perspective that is influenced by these thinkers in the past. And a lot of 226 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:55.880 people don't think that. They think, oh, well, no, no, 227 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:59.599 that's not true. I just I just look at the Bible and that's 228 00:20:59.640 --> 00:21:04.920 my theology. But the reality is there is very much a cultural, you 229 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:10.759 know, sort of lensing happening between you and the text, and that's something 230 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:14.440 that we cannot really escape. We're going to try, and many people try 231 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:18.640 it through various different means and methods, but that is truly inescapable, So 232 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:25.240 we're bringing ourself into the conversation with that material. That's just what we do. 233 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.519 So I left the church behind. It wasn't something that I felt like 234 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:37.799 I needed to continue to pursue and just got a normal career, which I've 235 00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:41.880 had now for quite some time, almost twenty years. And oddly enough, 236 00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:48.119 the UFO topic has kind of brought me back into and helped me sort of 237 00:21:48.519 --> 00:21:55.599 reclaim or redeem aspects of my religious upbringing. I don't consider to myself to 238 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.960 be Christian now, but I do absolutely make more room for Christianity and the 239 00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:07.319 perspective of Christianity in my worldview. So my history is a little bit complex 240 00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:10.319 there. I wouldn't call myself a believer in the traditional sense, but I 241 00:22:10.359 --> 00:22:15.960 also acknowledge that there are aspects of Christian belief that I believe are quite true. 242 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:22.559 So again, all part of that larger story which we're all trying to 243 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:29.920 figure out. My introduction to this theory or belief, whatever you want to 244 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:37.559 call it behind Bigfoot being one of these biblical entities was a story that I 245 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:45.640 heard very early on. It was actually the Mormon Church that started this belief, 246 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:51.240 believe it or not, and I actually found the story, so let 247 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:55.240 me read that real fast. It comes from a church apostible by the name 248 00:22:55.279 --> 00:23:00.000 of David Patten when he described an encounter he had with Cain in eighteen thirty 249 00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:07.359 five, so that's a long time ago, especially for bigfoot information. As 250 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:10.599 I was riding along the road on my mule, I suddenly noticed a very 251 00:23:10.640 --> 00:23:14.960 strange person walking beside me. His head was about even with my shoulders as 252 00:23:14.960 --> 00:23:18.799 I sat in my saddle. He wore no clothing but was covered with hair. 253 00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:22.119 His skin was very dark. I asked him where he dwelt, and 254 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.480 he replied that he had no home, and that he was a wanderer in 255 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.559 the earth and traveled to and fro. He said he was a very miserable 256 00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:37.599 creature and his mission was to destroy the souls of men. So this apostle 257 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:45.799 is talking about Cain based on his belief and everything. And this entry was 258 00:23:45.839 --> 00:23:51.119 included in Spencer W. Kimball's The Miracle of Forgiveness, which was originally published 259 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:56.039 in nineteen sixty nine. So here's where it gets interesting. In nineteen eighty 260 00:23:56.759 --> 00:24:04.920 there were actually sightings of Bigfoot reported in South Weber, Utah. So basically, 261 00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:10.559 the Mormons the Mormon community in Utah at the time of those sightings in 262 00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:18.960 nineteen eighty made the connection between Bigfoot and the description of Bigfoot to what this 263 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:26.680 apossible apostle described as his meeting with Cain, and thus the idea of Bigfoot 264 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:33.559 being Cain, Bigfoot being included in the Bible Bigfoot being evil was born. 265 00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:41.559 The Mormon Church definitely wanted a way to say, oh, well, Satan 266 00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.759 is doing this, Satan is behind this, He's coming after us, So 267 00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:53.160 that means we're doing something right. That means our you know, religion is 268 00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:59.759 confirmed based on the actions of Satan. So that's actually where it came from, 269 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.920 a story from an apostle in eighteen thirty five. In the Mormon Church, 270 00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:10.119 it was just a story, you know. It was an interesting one, 271 00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:15.200 but it didn't have any traction. Really, I never heard anyone talking 272 00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:22.359 about it or anything until I would say, within the past five years or 273 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:32.920 so, it has become a very popular belief that Bigfoot are biblical and evil 274 00:25:32.920 --> 00:25:41.880 in nature. So my first question in regards to Bigfoot being nehlem, nepheline, 275 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.039 whatever the correct pronunciation, is what does the Bible actually say about them? 276 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:57.000 Like, is this something that like, does the descriptions actually match Bigfoot 277 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:04.839 in your opinion? Well, no, the Bible doesn't say a lot about 278 00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:11.160 Nephiline. They're not mentioned often in the Bible. But I do have some 279 00:26:11.279 --> 00:26:15.279 passages that I think we should read and get into a little bit related to 280 00:26:15.839 --> 00:26:22.599 the mention of the nephileine. But in no example I'm about to read, 281 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:30.559 are they described as covered in hair? And even the link between these Nephileine 282 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:36.759 and Caine is a little bit tenuous at best. I also find it interesting 283 00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.039 that in the Apostles story that you shared, it's a very it's a very 284 00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:45.359 sort of like just kind of not cordial, but you know, calm conversation 285 00:26:45.559 --> 00:26:49.319 is happening with this being on the side of the road who's apparently meant to 286 00:26:49.319 --> 00:26:53.839 torment human beings. So not a lot of tormenting happening there, just more 287 00:26:53.839 --> 00:27:00.000 of a conversation, but nevertheless of fascinating, fascinating account. So why don't 288 00:27:00.039 --> 00:27:07.599 I start with the first instance of where the nepheleem are mentioned in the Bible, 289 00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.920 And that's in the Book of Genesis, so very early on those of 290 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:15.559 who don't know, that's the first book that's Genesis. It's the very first 291 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:21.079 one. So this is in Genesis chapter six, and I'm going to read 292 00:27:21.119 --> 00:27:26.599 the first four verses of this chapter, and the translation that I'm using is 293 00:27:26.680 --> 00:27:32.359 the new Revised Standard version, so those of you who care about those things, 294 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.279 all right. So it starts when people began to multiply on the face 295 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.200 of the ground, and daughters were born to them. The sons of God 296 00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:47.039 saw that they were fair, and they took wives for themselves, of all 297 00:27:47.079 --> 00:27:53.680 that they chose. Then the Lord said, my spirit shall not abide in 298 00:27:53.839 --> 00:28:00.599 mortals forever, for they are flesh. Their days shall be one hundred twenty 299 00:28:00.720 --> 00:28:07.480 years. The Nephalim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward 300 00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:12.319 when the sons of God went into the daughters of humans who bore children to 301 00:28:12.440 --> 00:28:21.319 them. These were the heroes that were of old warriors of renown, all 302 00:28:21.400 --> 00:28:26.640 right. So there's a lot to unpack in that little passage there, and 303 00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:33.039 there's some I think fairly clear ambiguity. You kind of put those two words 304 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:42.359 together. It's not clear which what the Nephalm actually are in this passage. 305 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:48.319 So we know that it mentions the Nephalim were on the earth in those days, 306 00:28:49.279 --> 00:28:52.880 and this was by the way, right before the flood happened. This 307 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.359 was right before Noah was building the Ark and the flood came along the the 308 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:02.359 in that passage, so they were on the earth. They're on the earth 309 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.160 in those days and afterward. But separately, it says when the sons of 310 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:11.079 God went into the daughters of humans who bore children to them. So it's 311 00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:18.480 not necessarily clear that the nephalim are also these sons of God who went and 312 00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:23.559 had children with the daughters of humans. Right, So there's a little bit 313 00:29:23.599 --> 00:29:26.839 of it's not clear there. Some people like to make those two things the 314 00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:30.240 same, right, but if you really look at it, it's not entirely 315 00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:36.960 clear. Then it says these were the heroes that were of old warriors of 316 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:44.319 renown, so so that that phrase seems to be related to the children who 317 00:29:44.359 --> 00:29:48.759 were born to the women and the sons of God, not necessarily to these 318 00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:52.119 nephiline. So again, these nephiline kind of stand on their own to some 319 00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:59.920 degree. So that's the first passage. Before you get to the second one, 320 00:30:00.039 --> 00:30:03.799 I want to talk a little bit about the word nephilim and how it's 321 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:11.359 sort of translated or understood. So it's a Hebrew word. And when it 322 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:17.359 was when the when the Hebrew text was translated into Greek. This happened in 323 00:30:17.480 --> 00:30:22.359 the some people think the third second century, before Christ, so before the 324 00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.640 Common Era, if you don't use a different way of saying it. And 325 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:32.119 the reason why the Bible was translated into Greek at that time is that the 326 00:30:32.880 --> 00:30:34.920 rulers of the day, you know, they decided they wanted to have this 327 00:30:36.039 --> 00:30:37.880 text, but they wanted to have it in the language that they could read. 328 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.319 Hebrew was not a widely used language at that time. It was a 329 00:30:42.480 --> 00:30:48.720 Greek sort of cultural world at that point, and the phrase of that is 330 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.720 Hellenism. So Hellenism was sort of the culture of the region of the world, 331 00:30:53.440 --> 00:30:59.279 and if you're in that region, you're sort of steeped in Greek culture 332 00:30:59.799 --> 00:31:04.799 in various different ways, even if you come from other traditions that aren't at 333 00:31:04.839 --> 00:31:11.039 their beginning Greek in nature. So Greek ways of thinking, Greek philosophy, 334 00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:19.960 Greek mythology permeates all these aspects of culture in that Mediterranean basin where these things 335 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:26.400 are happening. And so the ruler of the day apparently decided to gather up 336 00:31:26.440 --> 00:31:32.680 these Hebrew scholars, these Hebrew elders, and the saying is that he basically 337 00:31:32.720 --> 00:31:41.400 got six scholars from the twelve tribes of Israel, so seventy two Hebrew scholars 338 00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:45.880 who could translate into Greek into coin a Greek, which is the common Greek 339 00:31:45.920 --> 00:31:48.279 that was used at the time, and he just sort of asked them all 340 00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:52.480 to create translations of the Hebrew text, and he asked them to do this 341 00:31:52.519 --> 00:31:55.599 sort of separately. And so the mythology here is they are all doing this 342 00:31:55.640 --> 00:32:00.319 separately, and they all kind of came to similar translations. Why do I 343 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:06.759 bring all that up? I bring that up because the the the word nethylene 344 00:32:06.799 --> 00:32:14.640 and Hebrew tends to have a connotation of fallen or fallen ones or causing causing 345 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.160 ones to fall. So it's interesting there's a fall component with that word. 346 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:23.839 But when they did the translation into Greek, they're there again. They're thinking 347 00:32:23.880 --> 00:32:30.319 about that Hellenistic culture I just mentioned. And the only thing that they could 348 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:36.240 kind of come up with as a parallel to this fallen notion is sort of 349 00:32:36.279 --> 00:32:39.839 this idea of giants these uh you know in Greek and mythology, you know, 350 00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:45.160 you've got these kinds of titans and giants. And that's the sort of 351 00:32:45.160 --> 00:32:52.559 parallel that was made then between nethhyaline being fallen and nethylene being giants. Right, 352 00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:54.319 So that and that that kind of stook a little bit, and obviously 353 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:59.559 we're still talking about it because it did. There's that giant connotation there. 354 00:32:59.799 --> 00:33:04.519 I mean, how many stories in Greek mythology do you have where you know, 355 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:10.839 a god basically mated with a human and produced you know, this half 356 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:17.720 hybrid offspring that was some sort of you know, warrior hero or you know, 357 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:23.160 exceptionally strong, you know, things like that. The parallels between the 358 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:30.039 two are really kind of fascinating, exactly, And I think that's the interesting 359 00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:35.599 thing. We should come back to that, because that is something that we're 360 00:33:35.599 --> 00:33:40.039 still talking about today, this sort of hybridized quality, right right. So 361 00:33:40.319 --> 00:33:45.440 the other passage I want to read is from the Book of Numbers. This 362 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:51.559 is really the only place it's mentioned in the Bible outside of some other non 363 00:33:51.640 --> 00:33:57.440 canonical texts of the Bible. So number chapter thirteen. This is where Moses 364 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:04.880 is basically just deciding to send out some spies into the land of Canaan because 365 00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.319 he's all these people. Remember he took all these people out of Egypt. 366 00:34:07.359 --> 00:34:08.559 He's going to get them somewhere. So He's like, all right, go 367 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:13.880 scout out this land of Canaan, and let's see if maybe this is a 368 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:19.679 good place for us to go. So these spies go out there and they 369 00:34:19.719 --> 00:34:24.079 gather intelligence. They come back and they talk to Moses, and they kind 370 00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:29.960 of share what they have learned. And so what they say this is numbers, 371 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.280 chapter thirteen, verse twenty seven. So and they reported to him and 372 00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:37.079 said, we came to the land to which you sent us. It flows 373 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:39.719 with milk and honey, and this is its fruit. Get The people who 374 00:34:39.760 --> 00:34:45.800 live in the land are strong, and the towns are fortified and very large. 375 00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:51.719 And besides, we saw the descendants of a knock there. The Amalekites 376 00:34:52.079 --> 00:34:54.239 live in the land of the Negeb, the Hittites, the Jebusites, and 377 00:34:54.280 --> 00:34:58.559 the Amorites live in the hill country, and the Canaanites live by the sea 378 00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:02.559 and along the Jordan. But Caleb quite of the people for Moses, and 379 00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:07.679 said, let us go up at once and occupy it, for we are 380 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:10.400 well able to overcome it. So Caleb's like, we can do this whatever. 381 00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:15.199 Then the men had gone up with him and said we're not able to 382 00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:19.679 go up against these people, for they are stronger than we. And so 383 00:35:19.719 --> 00:35:22.559 they brought back this kind of unfavorable report of the land that they spied, 384 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.119 saying that the land that we have gone through as spies is a land that 385 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.119 devours its inhabitants, and all the people that we saw in it are of 386 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:37.519 great size. There we saw the Nephalim, and in parentheses it says the 387 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:44.760 Anakites come from the Nephalm, and to ourselves we seemed like grasshoppers, and 388 00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:50.000 so we seemed to them. So that's a long passage, but just essentially 389 00:35:50.000 --> 00:35:52.320 to say they went up, they looked around, they saw these giant people 390 00:35:53.039 --> 00:35:58.719 kind of with well fortified towns and whatnot, and they gave a report back 391 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:02.159 to Moses saying, we're not sure we can take this land. We're really 392 00:36:02.199 --> 00:36:07.440 small by comparison to who they are and the nepheleemer mentioned in this passage. 393 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.239 How would we even get to that point? Yeah? How do you get 394 00:36:13.280 --> 00:36:17.199 from there to Bigfoot? Right? I think it's a it's a bit of 395 00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:22.440 a stretch to say that. I mean, all we really have here are 396 00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:27.199 our giant, you know, beings of giant size, but this is where 397 00:36:27.239 --> 00:36:29.960 this is where it really gets interesting to me. As I started looking into 398 00:36:30.400 --> 00:36:34.360 this more, I think there are tie into what we're seeing in the world 399 00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:38.480 today as well. And what I want to sort of throw out here as 400 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:44.519 an umbrella to think about this is that we are still wrestling with the mysterious 401 00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:49.960 past of of of humanity. So the world we live in today, both 402 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:53.159 the world that we know and the world that the people of the Bible knew. 403 00:36:53.960 --> 00:37:00.519 The world that preceded them and preceded us had a lot of mystery in 404 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:05.440 it that was lost to time that they didn't understand, and just as we 405 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:09.519 don't understand. So I find this interesting because this is a connection point between 406 00:37:09.599 --> 00:37:14.440 us and the people of the time of the Bible as well. And what 407 00:37:14.519 --> 00:37:21.199 I'm getting to here is that there were ancient megalithic structures throughout the world. 408 00:37:21.239 --> 00:37:24.039 I mean, we're all familiar with these, and they're the subject of how 409 00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:30.079 many shows on the History Channel or whatever. These ancient megalithic structures that were 410 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.599 still puzzled by to this day. Well, they were puzzled by them as 411 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:39.079 well. And what's the most logical thing you would conclude if you saw megalithic 412 00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:45.199 structures or remnants of megalithic structures in the land. You would think, well, 413 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:51.400 I mean I can't lift this, so therefore something bigger than me but 414 00:37:51.880 --> 00:37:55.880 like me, would have lifted this and or created this, right, So 415 00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.960 right then you have an instant well, these must be the giants that did 416 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:06.119 whatever, you know, that created these things. To me, it seems 417 00:38:06.159 --> 00:38:14.320 like a lot of people that talk about this particular belief system in terms of 418 00:38:14.360 --> 00:38:22.280 Bigfoot take a lot of liberties and freedoms with the interpretations. And one of 419 00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:29.760 the main problems I have is the story of the flood. Is there anything 420 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:37.480 to say that if Bigfoot are the Nephelene, they would have survived the flood? 421 00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:43.599 I know that in Genesis it says, you know they were there then 422 00:38:43.880 --> 00:38:47.239 and after. Is it talking about after the flood? I think it is. 423 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:52.800 I think that in those days, and when we look at that passage 424 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:58.960 the earth in those days and then also afterward, it's really foreshadowing that that 425 00:38:59.119 --> 00:39:01.119 flood is. You know, it's on the way in the in the passage 426 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:07.519 later on in the in the in the book, So yes, there is 427 00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:14.599 a hint that these beings, these Nepheline these fallen ones are on the earth 428 00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:19.159 in some capacity, and you know, you bring up the flood story. 429 00:39:19.440 --> 00:39:23.000 That's a common part of most of the major myths in human history, is 430 00:39:23.039 --> 00:39:27.559 a flood of some kind, you know. I was taught that that was 431 00:39:27.679 --> 00:39:32.639 you know, more mythological, less literal, or if there was a flood, 432 00:39:32.679 --> 00:39:37.320 it wasn't global in nature. It was I don't know, some sort 433 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:42.480 of localized blood that just impacted that region. The older that I've gotten, 434 00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:45.320 the more that I've had experience and looked at these other stories, the more 435 00:39:45.360 --> 00:39:50.920 I tend to think that, you know, there was some catastrophic flood that 436 00:39:51.000 --> 00:39:57.159 occurred, and that it got recorded in human history by the survivors. I 437 00:39:57.159 --> 00:40:02.760 don't know that the survivors were just descendants of Noah. I think that might 438 00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:08.320 be a little bit of a stretch, but clearly this event left an imprint 439 00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:13.920 on humanity, and we see it, we see the signs of that in 440 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:21.960 all of these different traditions. I'm particularly interested in this fallen concept, you 441 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:31.039 know, because there's also ideas that the Nephelim are sort of fallen angels, 442 00:40:31.239 --> 00:40:38.119 or the progeny of fallen angels having intermarried or having children with human women. 443 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:45.639 So there's some evidence in for example, the Book of Enoch that is not 444 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:51.119 in the Bible, it's not in the canon, but there's mentioned in the 445 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:53.519 Book of Enoch that fallen angels, you know, had children with women, 446 00:40:53.559 --> 00:41:01.079 and you know these were potentially these you know, hybrid beings. And you 447 00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:05.639 talked about hybrids before, so here we had that concept coming up again. 448 00:41:06.119 --> 00:41:08.480 But also what I mentioned just not only when I talked about may Or, 449 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.360 I talk to the umbrella concept about wrestling with our past. Our human past 450 00:41:14.519 --> 00:41:19.800 not only contains mysteries in terms of structures, but there was a time in 451 00:41:19.840 --> 00:41:24.400 our human history where we lived with other kinds of humans, right, And 452 00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:30.360 this is something that I think modern humans typically just don't think very much about 453 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.599 because we're the only humans that are here, right, But if you look 454 00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:39.360 at history itself, there was a time where you know, Homo sapien sapiens 455 00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:47.719 lived alongside Neanderthals, lived alongside Denysovan's other species of human. So if you 456 00:41:47.800 --> 00:41:55.079 think about a lot of our mythology, it has these imprints of that complicated 457 00:41:55.159 --> 00:42:00.840 human family. And so you have really strong beings, you have really small 458 00:42:00.880 --> 00:42:05.239 beings, you have you know, all these different sort of fate flavors, 459 00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:10.840 varieties of humanoid beings. And that's I think a remnant of this time in 460 00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:16.119 our history or ancient history, where we were really occupying the same space with 461 00:42:16.239 --> 00:42:22.159 these other human species. Well, they often say, whoever, when's the 462 00:42:22.199 --> 00:42:29.039 war gets the right history? Right? That's it. And obviously modern humans 463 00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:37.119 survived, you know, we won whenever it comes to those other types of 464 00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:42.920 humans. But it is interesting to note that we do have all this folklore 465 00:42:43.639 --> 00:42:54.159 about other humanoid beings that might be ways of people just talking about some of 466 00:42:54.199 --> 00:43:00.159 those other types of humans that once existed, you know, whenever it come 467 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:08.440 to even bigfoot. Over the years on this continent, at least, the 468 00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:16.639 descriptions of bigfoot have changed. Whenever they were first being reported, the way 469 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:23.880 that they were reported were mostly as wild humans, you know, wild men, 470 00:43:24.360 --> 00:43:31.840 hairy men, things like that. And then you had the global we'll 471 00:43:31.840 --> 00:43:37.519 say, global discovery of the gorilla and these other you know, as we 472 00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:43.760 started venturing farther out into the wilds and discovering new animals and creatures, and 473 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:47.280 people started learning more about you know, great apes and primates and things like 474 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:52.199 that than the story of bigfoot sightings. The descriptions in the newspapers, and 475 00:43:52.199 --> 00:43:58.840 everything started to match that and became more of you know, this mystery great 476 00:43:58.880 --> 00:44:05.360 ape. And then in the seventies you get more and more science based for 477 00:44:05.400 --> 00:44:09.519 the most part, and people start pursuing this thing as some sort of undiscovered 478 00:44:09.559 --> 00:44:19.880 primate. And now it seems to be going back into a supernatural realm where 479 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:27.639 you have this biblical belief you have, you know, the paranormal bigfoot hopping 480 00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:34.239 through portals and cloaking itself and things of that nature, psychic abilities. Do 481 00:44:34.320 --> 00:44:40.440 you see a reflection of that in religious texts over the years as it comes 482 00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:47.039 forward? Is that par for the course whenever it comes to people's beliefs, 483 00:44:47.320 --> 00:44:58.079 Because I'm under my own opinion that beliefs systems are oftentimes coping mechanisms in a 484 00:44:58.159 --> 00:45:02.880 sense, to try and explain something that we don't have an explanation for. 485 00:45:04.800 --> 00:45:10.400 What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, No, I completely agree. 486 00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:15.360 I think my perspective on it has also changed a little bit, you know, 487 00:45:15.440 --> 00:45:21.039 over my life as well. So when I grew up, I was 488 00:45:21.199 --> 00:45:27.119 really looking at religion more purely from an allegorical standpoint. So these are you 489 00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.360 know, these are stories that are helping us understand larger truths. They're not 490 00:45:30.559 --> 00:45:37.519 themselves actual true things, right. That's a very modern way of looking at 491 00:45:38.400 --> 00:45:45.679 texts from the Bible or any mythological tradition. These are just miss allegory stories, 492 00:45:45.760 --> 00:45:52.000 right, They're not literal. But there are certainly others and many others 493 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:57.679 who do look at these as literal things. And I never really shared that 494 00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:05.920 particular perspective, in part because I just sort of reflected on my own life 495 00:46:06.000 --> 00:46:12.280 experience. Right. So if I were to, you know, use some 496 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:15.800 of the idioms of the day, and I were to put that into a 497 00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:17.639 letter to you, and let's say you were going to, you know, 498 00:46:17.960 --> 00:46:21.960 have a podcast, and I was saying, you know, Matt, good 499 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.440 luck with that podcast, break a leg or whatever. And then two hundred 500 00:46:24.480 --> 00:46:28.480 years from now people were to look at this document, you know, would 501 00:46:28.519 --> 00:46:31.159 they think I'm asking you to break your leg? I mean that they wouldn't 502 00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:36.199 understand potentially what it is I'm saying there. So, just like that, 503 00:46:36.239 --> 00:46:43.000 as a simple example, that's happening with these ancient texts as well. There's 504 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:50.679 so much context around these stories that really, quite frankly, is just lost 505 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:57.400 to us. So we're doing the best we can by taking our own experience 506 00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:00.519 of life, both that and what we know about history, which we just 507 00:47:00.599 --> 00:47:06.199 talked about is a little bit fuzzy, and we're we're bringing that to bear 508 00:47:06.360 --> 00:47:10.880 on this material and hoping that we can glean from that some truth to it. 509 00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:16.000 Right. So, So, where I'm at now in thinking about these 510 00:47:16.039 --> 00:47:22.119 things is that there's really a blended quality to these to these texts, right. 511 00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:25.880 So, Yes, there are aspects of them that are allegorical. Yes, 512 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:31.400 there are also aspects of them that are literal. It's it's really parsing 513 00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:36.599 that between the two. That's that's the challenge. And I think because it's 514 00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:42.559 so difficult, we have to be willing to suspend our our judgment, our 515 00:47:42.599 --> 00:47:45.519 snap judgment into wanting to make it one or the other. I think we 516 00:47:45.599 --> 00:47:50.239 have to sort of kind of loosely hold both that, Yes, this could 517 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:52.039 be literally true, but it might not be. Yes, this could be 518 00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:58.280 allegorically true, but it might be literally true. So it's a challenge. 519 00:47:58.280 --> 00:48:05.280 And certainly to your point, people's beliefs and perspectives do change over the years. 520 00:48:05.360 --> 00:48:08.280 And if you look at the history in the in the Bible as the 521 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:13.599 Bible, and by the way, wasn't one single document for most of its 522 00:48:13.679 --> 00:48:20.559 history. But the understanding of the world does change in the text itself as 523 00:48:20.599 --> 00:48:25.000 you move into the New Testament. And we talked about Hellenism, that Greek 524 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:30.280 culture. It has a huge influence on the New New Testament, and it's 525 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:35.000 written in the Greek language. But if you look at the New Testament and 526 00:48:35.039 --> 00:48:37.880 look at it from that perspective, you're going to see a lot of Greek 527 00:48:37.960 --> 00:48:43.519 influence throughout the text, and that changes the way you think about notions of 528 00:48:43.679 --> 00:48:46.719 what is God? You know, what are demons? What our angels? 529 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:52.079 You know? What is the Messiah? What is the end of time? 530 00:48:52.239 --> 00:48:57.599 So all of these things are going to change based on that cultural reference point, 531 00:48:58.039 --> 00:49:01.079 but some of them might still will be literally true, right, So 532 00:49:01.119 --> 00:49:05.440 that again, that's that weird suspension we have to have. Is just not 533 00:49:05.519 --> 00:49:10.039 easy to do right. Cultural explanations, I think, play a huge part 534 00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:17.360 in the language, and trying to apply words of understanding to things that aren't 535 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.079 understood can cause a lot of this stuff. And then, of course, 536 00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:29.679 you know something that's been argued and debated forever, you know, just languages 537 00:49:29.719 --> 00:49:35.360 that don't translate properly, or opinions on translation. I mean, just take 538 00:49:35.400 --> 00:49:39.199 that passage about the spies, for instance, I had read where you know, 539 00:49:40.599 --> 00:49:47.320 it's kind of interpreted as these spies delivered bad information, as in, 540 00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:52.800 this is bad news. And then there's another interpretation that says, well, 541 00:49:52.840 --> 00:49:55.480 this Hebrew word was used and it actually means slander, so we believe that 542 00:49:57.679 --> 00:50:02.079 by bad we mean lies, that it was untrue. So then you take 543 00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:07.880 that information, well, it's either bad news because it was just bad news 544 00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.079 that they didn't want to hear, or it's bad news because it's lies and 545 00:50:10.119 --> 00:50:15.119 it's not true at all, and there weren't actually giants seen by the spies. 546 00:50:15.760 --> 00:50:21.679 But based on your own beliefs in what you're choosing to believe about Bigfoot, 547 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:25.760 you could use either one of those interpretations to support your own argument for 548 00:50:25.920 --> 00:50:32.199 them either being these nepheline or not being And I think a lot of times 549 00:50:32.239 --> 00:50:38.199 that's done because just the idea of I mean, we're doing a podcast about 550 00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:45.639 it right now. This nephiline have become extremely popular in modern encryptid folklore, 551 00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:52.440 and we're talking about there barely anything even mentioned in the Bible. There's not 552 00:50:52.679 --> 00:51:00.400 really information out there about them, and most of the information that I ran 553 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:04.519 across, you know, came from the stories from the Book of Enoch, 554 00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:10.599 and like you said, that's not canon. So whenever it comes to biblical 555 00:51:10.639 --> 00:51:15.639 canon and you've got like the Book of Enoch, how does it fit in? 556 00:51:16.920 --> 00:51:22.760 And let's just go off the rails for a second and say all of 557 00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:28.119 this is actually true? You know, is this something like does the Catholic 558 00:51:28.239 --> 00:51:34.239 Church really suppress and hide information and you know, things of this nature. 559 00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:37.519 Is that something that you believe that they would actually do, and like, 560 00:51:37.599 --> 00:51:44.119 why would they do that? Like it's often speculated as to you know, 561 00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:49.519 the cover up of Bigfoot and UFOs and everything done by the government, But 562 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.639 what if it's being covered up by the church, And is that something the 563 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:55.840 church would do? And why? Yeah? Well, I love the opinion 564 00:51:55.920 --> 00:52:05.000 that all official truths from whatever organization you want to look at, whether that's 565 00:52:05.039 --> 00:52:10.280 the Church or the state, is to a certain degree a kind of propaganda, 566 00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:17.360 right, And and that's not necessarily saying that it's done in an nefarious 567 00:52:17.360 --> 00:52:22.840 way. I'm not saying there's some secret council, you know, deciding, 568 00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:27.559 hey, we want to tell everyone that this is the truth when we know, 569 00:52:28.320 --> 00:52:31.360 you know, as as secret keepers we know it's something else. Entirely. 570 00:52:31.639 --> 00:52:37.280 I think it's it's a little bit less sinister than that. I think 571 00:52:37.320 --> 00:52:43.880 that we all have to wrestle with the fact that when we're looking at the 572 00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:45.679 world, we're born into a world that we you know, we sort of 573 00:52:45.679 --> 00:52:51.679 stumble into and it functions in a certain way, and when we're thinking about 574 00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:54.280 how to explain it, we're going to have to cut some corners. We're 575 00:52:54.320 --> 00:52:57.960 going to have to say, you know, I'm going to shave off this 576 00:52:58.079 --> 00:53:00.719 piece of experience. I'm going to shame off this piece, and I'm going 577 00:53:00.760 --> 00:53:07.519 to create this crafted object that is the truth, and we're going to kind 578 00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:13.599 of ignore the fact that these outliers don't really fit into fit with whatever that 579 00:53:13.639 --> 00:53:16.320 object happens to be. So I think that the church and the state, 580 00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:22.840 they've absolutely done this. I think that they I don't believe that they've done 581 00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:27.719 that necessarily in an evil, sinister way. There's just a byproduct of how 582 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:35.440 we are in the world. And unfortunately, because of things like you we 583 00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:37.239 can talk about the pros and cons of this, but because of things like 584 00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:46.719 the written word, the printing press, we've placed a higher degree of importance 585 00:53:46.920 --> 00:53:58.360 on written material than spoken oral tradition kind of material, right. And that's 586 00:53:58.400 --> 00:54:05.719 interesting too because in the ancient times when writing wasn't everywhere, and writing to 587 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:08.199 write you had to be you had to have means, you had to have 588 00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:14.480 uh, you know, skill education, training, Like it's not something that 589 00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:20.599 everybody could could do and understand. So the spoken word, the oral tradition 590 00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:27.119 is much more prominent in ancient world than it is for us today. And 591 00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:31.639 what that means is that people had to by very nature, like they had 592 00:54:31.679 --> 00:54:43.119 to have a deep ability to memorize and to listen and to hold oral tradition 593 00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:49.199 in their mind at all times. And we've actually kind of let that part 594 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:52.880 of ourselves atrophy. Right, So we marvel at people who can memorize, 595 00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:55.559 you know, all these kinds of things. Well, I think that the 596 00:54:55.639 --> 00:55:00.559 ancients were much better at that. That they could they could listen to someone 597 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:05.559 give a speech and they could hold all that content in their head way better 598 00:55:05.599 --> 00:55:09.320 than you and I can. And the person giving the speech also knows that 599 00:55:09.360 --> 00:55:13.679 they can do that. So how does that change the way that you're using 600 00:55:13.800 --> 00:55:15.639 language? I mean, it changes it quite a lot. Because we we 601 00:55:16.079 --> 00:55:19.599 with our written focus, we're going to go back and go, oh, 602 00:55:19.639 --> 00:55:22.440 here's a citation. You know here, you said this on this day, 603 00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:27.199 and therefore, you know, I'm not going to let you get off the 604 00:55:27.239 --> 00:55:30.480 hook on that because you said it on that day. Whereas when you're doing 605 00:55:30.480 --> 00:55:34.719 this in an oral tradition sense, it's much more of a suspension and you're 606 00:55:34.800 --> 00:55:39.079 you're playing with these ideas in a more living way, a more kind of 607 00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:45.280 active way than than this. What we've taken is basically a very scientific approach 608 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:47.360 to language. You know, It's it's something very exact, it's something very 609 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:53.119 quantifiable, precise, and interestingly enough, we brought that. You know, 610 00:55:53.119 --> 00:55:58.039 if you if you come from a more of a a more of a fundamentalist 611 00:55:58.039 --> 00:56:02.559 perspective on the Bible, you're bringing that kind of scientific perspective to the text 612 00:56:04.559 --> 00:56:07.920 more so than that, you know, sort of living document perspective. So 613 00:56:08.199 --> 00:56:14.239 it's it's just all very fascinating and absolutely, you know, our perspective change 614 00:56:14.400 --> 00:56:19.719 on these things. And if you're having an experience of a bigfoot, you 615 00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.000 kind of have a couple of choices, right, I Mean, one choice 616 00:56:22.840 --> 00:56:30.079 is how do I fit this into a worldview that I already have? Right? 617 00:56:30.440 --> 00:56:34.239 Right? The other choice is how do I fit this into a worldview 618 00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:38.440 that I'm going to try and create, or I'm going to adopt that is 619 00:56:38.519 --> 00:56:43.920 not what I have right now. Those are the two primary choices, and 620 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:47.440 I think that's what we're seeing here people that are proposing this nepoleine concept, 621 00:56:47.559 --> 00:56:53.199 you know, they're wanting to fit it by any means necessary, into this 622 00:56:53.320 --> 00:57:00.360 biblical worldview, not necessarily willing to adopt another one that might make better sense 623 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:07.880 of it. I totally agree with that. I think that happens with pretty 624 00:57:07.920 --> 00:57:15.239 much the majority of Bigfoot theories out there. Is the experience someone has and 625 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:21.400 the way they interpret it is again a coping mechanism to make it fit into 626 00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:27.679 their worldview and their belief systems that already exist. And that's not to say 627 00:57:27.840 --> 00:57:34.039 that anyone is right or wrong. I'm certainly in no place to say that, 628 00:57:35.079 --> 00:57:38.039 no, this person's wrong and this person's right, because I don't think 629 00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:44.000 we know. I'm not sure we'll ever know. But Nephiliam is not the 630 00:57:44.000 --> 00:57:52.599 only Biblical thing that gets attributed to Bigfoot demons. This is another thing that 631 00:57:52.639 --> 00:57:57.119 has come up time and time again in Bigfoot is the idea that bigfoot are 632 00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.159 actually demons. And I know that this is something thing that has started to 633 00:58:01.639 --> 00:58:07.559 play out a little bit in the UFO world as well, aliens being demonic 634 00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:12.599 entities. What are your thoughts on that? Yeah, that's a big one. 635 00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:16.159 Getting a lot of traction now, I mean, a very similar thing 636 00:58:16.199 --> 00:58:24.360 is happening, right, So we're taking experiences that occur at the fringes of 637 00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:32.360 human perception and experience, things like Bigfoot, like UFOs, alien beings, 638 00:58:32.440 --> 00:58:39.079 whatever and sort these are things that are not in common human experience, and 639 00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:44.599 we're thinking, what is a you know, what corollary can I think of 640 00:58:44.679 --> 00:58:52.639 here that that happens in that fringe, shadowy space that I can kind of 641 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:55.920 readily call And that's going to be more often than not in the West anyway, 642 00:58:57.440 --> 00:59:00.480 in some Eastern traditions as well. The these demons, these are not 643 00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:07.199 things that occur in the light quote unquote, They don't occur in you know, 644 00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:13.800 waking experience. They occur in this shadowy realm. You know that this 645 00:59:14.199 --> 00:59:16.079 We can use different words for that, you know, we can use subconscious, 646 00:59:16.719 --> 00:59:22.360 we can use uh, you know, sort of hell as this subsurface 647 00:59:22.039 --> 00:59:27.320 world. You know, shield is a word in the Bible that is this 648 00:59:27.440 --> 00:59:34.840 subsurface world. Ah, these are things happening below normal human experience, and 649 00:59:34.920 --> 00:59:38.000 so I think it makes a lot of sense while we would want to jump 650 00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:46.800 to that because that's the only category that is uh supernatural that kind of maps 651 00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:52.519 into some of these fringe experiences. So if it's not happening where I can 652 00:59:52.559 --> 00:59:57.679 easily see it, if it's not willing to be seen and interact with us 653 00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:02.079 in a in an obvious over way, that it must be by its very 654 01:00:02.239 --> 01:00:09.519 nature, sinister, dark, demonic, anti human. So I think that's 655 01:00:09.519 --> 01:00:15.480 where we're going with this. And what I would say is we need to 656 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:23.000 work to examine that perspective. If that's something that we are jumping to, 657 01:00:24.079 --> 01:00:29.800 so we need to work hard to I think look at the evidence for that. 658 01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:34.320 You know, what are the actual experiences that we're talking about that we're 659 01:00:34.320 --> 01:00:37.559 mapping onto demons? You know, are they actually if we look at those 660 01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:45.519 experiences themselves and the interactions that have been reported about the experiences, are are 661 01:00:45.519 --> 01:00:51.719 there demonic qualities to those interactions? And and here I'm not using the word 662 01:00:51.760 --> 01:00:55.480 demonic in a literal sense, but just in a is it anti human being? 663 01:00:55.519 --> 01:01:00.719 Is it? Is it a negative experience? Right case, It's not 664 01:01:00.800 --> 01:01:05.880 just going back to that first story of the Apostle meeting Kane, who's like, 665 01:01:05.920 --> 01:01:08.400 I'm here to destroy the souls of men and carry on a decent conversation. 666 01:01:08.760 --> 01:01:14.280 Exactly, it doesn't really make a lot of sense. And I still, 667 01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:20.159 you know, I remember getting so frustrated whenever I was younger, because 668 01:01:21.159 --> 01:01:23.159 I don't know necessarily that it's anything new, but it was new to me 669 01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:31.920 the idea that there were Christians out there who were trying to say that dinosaurs 670 01:01:32.800 --> 01:01:39.360 were just acts of Satan. Dinosaur fossils were just things created by Satan to 671 01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:44.679 make us think that dinosaurs used to exist and they didn't actually ever exist. 672 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:51.039 And I remember being so frustrated by that because I'm just I'm one of those 673 01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:53.119 people who's just like, well, I can see it, I can touch 674 01:01:53.159 --> 01:01:58.719 it. It's real, it exists, it's right here. But I think 675 01:01:58.760 --> 01:02:05.880 a lot of people want to live in one world, have this belief system, 676 01:02:06.679 --> 01:02:09.639 but well, how can I include this other stuff that I'm interested in 677 01:02:09.679 --> 01:02:15.159 that you know, may kind of question some of the things that I believe, 678 01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:20.800 And so they look for ways to explain them and incorporate them, which 679 01:02:20.800 --> 01:02:24.880 seems to be the ongoing theme. And I think the belief that Bigfoot or 680 01:02:24.920 --> 01:02:30.880 aliens or any of these things are demons or demonic in nature is another way 681 01:02:30.920 --> 01:02:36.639 of doing that, another way of explaining it with an already existent belief system 682 01:02:36.679 --> 01:02:38.920 that you're not willing to stray away from. But you still want to play 683 01:02:38.960 --> 01:02:43.639 around in this pool too, you know. Right, I was going to 684 01:02:43.760 --> 01:02:47.719 ask, you know something that I know you're constantly on top of and talking 685 01:02:47.760 --> 01:02:53.760 about, you know, is the government coming forward and acknowledging you know, 686 01:02:54.599 --> 01:02:59.800 hey, aliens and UFOs are real. It's all over the news headlines and 687 01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:06.480 anything. Do you think that's something that the church and by the church, 688 01:03:06.599 --> 01:03:10.519 I guess I'm talking about the Catholic Church. I assume that the Catholic Church 689 01:03:10.559 --> 01:03:17.280 is in charge of religion as we know it. Is that something that you 690 01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:22.199 ever think they will do? Do you think they will come forward and make 691 01:03:22.239 --> 01:03:25.960 an official statement or address these things that are happening? I mean I think 692 01:03:25.960 --> 01:03:31.960 that they If the government does come forward with a more clear statement on this, 693 01:03:32.119 --> 01:03:38.920 then absolutely the Catholic Church and other church leaders will respond in kind. 694 01:03:39.840 --> 01:03:49.440 And the question becomes is how do they incorporate that information into their theological perspective? 695 01:03:50.280 --> 01:03:54.280 The Catholic Church has already stated in certain ways that you know, if 696 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:59.400 they are extraterrestrials or whatever, that they can be baptized and they can be 697 01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:03.039 uh Christian just like a human being. And so they're they're they're you know, 698 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:11.599 interesting just to imagine the exactly you know, I forget this new new 699 01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:15.360 culture here which is going to fit you into ours. So it's they're making 700 01:04:15.360 --> 01:04:19.079 space for that. And I think you know, this gets to your point 701 01:04:19.199 --> 01:04:21.880 right that you just made about the demons, and that's that, you know, 702 01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:29.719 how how flexible or inflexible is your theological perspective, because if it's if 703 01:04:29.760 --> 01:04:33.199 it's incredibly rigid, then what you're going to do is you're going to say 704 01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:42.079 exactly what you pointed out, that this new reality doesn't doesn't conform or fit 705 01:04:42.199 --> 01:04:45.840 with my perspective on the way the world is and who God is and and 706 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:50.159 all these things, and therefore it's anti that. So what goes in the 707 01:04:50.199 --> 01:04:56.360 anti that bucket that's you know, demons and Satan. You know, it 708 01:04:56.400 --> 01:04:59.880 falls into that category, which by the way, can be a very luck 709 01:05:00.119 --> 01:05:04.400 The bucket continues to grow the more and the more things that we discover. 710 01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:09.039 You know, you brought up the dinosaurs and things like that, Well that 711 01:05:09.199 --> 01:05:12.079 goes into the bucket. You know, you bring up things like other habitable 712 01:05:12.079 --> 01:05:15.159 worlds, well that might go into the buckets as a deception. You know, 713 01:05:15.199 --> 01:05:18.000 maybe we're the only habitable world and I'm believe in that stuff, So 714 01:05:18.039 --> 01:05:23.960 that goes into this bucket as well. So you can maintain that rigid perspective 715 01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:27.000 or you can make room for it. And I think that's really what we're 716 01:05:27.480 --> 01:05:30.679 what I'm trying to get at here, is that we have this choice, 717 01:05:30.679 --> 01:05:39.719 this opportunity to make room for experiences that occur in the world or to reject 718 01:05:39.760 --> 01:05:44.880 them outright. And I get it. Rejecting them outright is in some ways 719 01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:50.000 easier because it doesn't you're not forced to sort of work through the complexities of 720 01:05:50.079 --> 01:05:55.000 having to incorporate this experience. You're just like keeping what you know and it's 721 01:05:55.039 --> 01:06:00.880 safe. But I would encourage folks to try to do the opposite, you 722 01:06:00.880 --> 01:06:03.920 know, to journey into that unknown a little bit more, be a little 723 01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:10.920 more flexible, and see what that will reveal to you about your core beliefs. 724 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:14.719 And if your core beliefs are still strong, that's a good thing. 725 01:06:15.000 --> 01:06:16.440 Right. Ultimately, that's a good thing. If your core beliefs change, 726 01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:18.760 well, that could be a good thing as well. It could be very 727 01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:25.639 transformative. I think that the religions of the world have elements within them that 728 01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:30.400 can easily adapt to this reality. And religion, by the way, has 729 01:06:30.440 --> 01:06:35.559 been adapting to reality every century. The more that we know about the world, 730 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:41.039 et cetera, et cetera, the more these theologies change. I don't 731 01:06:41.039 --> 01:06:44.519 see that, you know, changing at all, will continue to do do 732 01:06:44.639 --> 01:06:48.800 so these theologies will just incorporate whatever this new reality is. But man, 733 01:06:48.840 --> 01:06:53.559 it's going to get a lot more complex if that happens. And I think 734 01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:57.400 it's going to cause a lot of people to really have some dark knights of 735 01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:01.840 the soul about what they believe, because you don't find, uh, you 736 01:07:01.840 --> 01:07:06.039 know, explicit mention of these things in the religious text, at least in 737 01:07:06.039 --> 01:07:09.840 the way that we would want with them to. And let's say they even 738 01:07:09.840 --> 01:07:12.480 show us a being at some point, if we see an actual being, 739 01:07:13.760 --> 01:07:15.920 man, won't that be a shock to the system. So I don't know, 740 01:07:16.480 --> 01:07:20.199 we live in interesting times, my friend, we do. Have you 741 01:07:21.000 --> 01:07:29.400 studied many other religions outside of Christianity a little bit, so I've studied a 742 01:07:29.400 --> 01:07:39.360 little bit of Hinduism, Buddhism, let's see Shintoism, a little bit of 743 01:07:39.440 --> 01:07:43.119 Islam, but not as much. And I've studied some Judaism as well, 744 01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:47.079 so, but most of my study has been in the Western religions. Do 745 01:07:48.000 --> 01:07:54.039 similar items like the nepheleam and demons and everything pop up in those texts as 746 01:07:54.039 --> 01:07:59.280 well that you've noticed, well, yeah, in some in some respects, 747 01:07:59.280 --> 01:08:05.639 so there are mentioned of giants in Hindu In Hindu scripture, there are certainly 748 01:08:05.719 --> 01:08:11.679 lots of mentions of demons, uh, some of which could be construed to 749 01:08:11.719 --> 01:08:18.600 be similar to the nephelm concept in these other traditions. In the Japanese religious 750 01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:26.600 history, there's a lot of you know, demonology there, but you know, 751 01:08:26.640 --> 01:08:30.600 I don't know how explicit they are, and certainly with like the the 752 01:08:30.720 --> 01:08:32.960 qualities of the bigfoot, you know, I think that's what's kind of lacking 753 01:08:32.960 --> 01:08:36.000 in most of these accounts is like that, you know, when we're talking 754 01:08:36.039 --> 01:08:41.239 about giants and other traditions, they're usually like really really tall, like way 755 01:08:41.279 --> 01:08:45.159 taller than a nine foot big big foot or whatever. And they're not talking 756 01:08:45.199 --> 01:08:49.119 about them being you know, crazy hairy. You know, they're just talking 757 01:08:49.119 --> 01:08:55.840 about them being just giant beings. So yeah, it's interesting, and the 758 01:08:55.880 --> 01:09:02.760 same thing goes in hand with the demon belief system. A lot of the 759 01:09:02.800 --> 01:09:09.119 properties that I understand about demons don't really play out in like you were saying, 760 01:09:09.159 --> 01:09:13.399 in Bigfoot experiences. So it's kind of a contradiction there and beliefs. 761 01:09:14.399 --> 01:09:16.279 But I could be wrong. No, But I mean your point is really 762 01:09:16.399 --> 01:09:21.960 really valid. I mean, if we're talking about demonic I mean, they're 763 01:09:21.960 --> 01:09:27.079 not very good demons if that's what they are, right, They hide from 764 01:09:27.159 --> 01:09:30.199 us, they don't communicate. Yeah, and apparently whenever they do communicate, 765 01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:33.319 it's nice. So I don't know. Yeah, it doesn't really fit the 766 01:09:33.880 --> 01:09:36.800 mold there. But you know what's interesting about that too, though, is 767 01:09:36.840 --> 01:09:43.920 that you know, people can also say that things that are highly persuasive or 768 01:09:43.960 --> 01:09:47.840 appear to be nice are actually not right. So there's right. It's always 769 01:09:47.840 --> 01:09:53.319 interesting how people kind of bucket their experiences in terms of this is, you 770 01:09:53.359 --> 01:09:58.199 know, sort of angelic or godly and this over here is demonic or satanic 771 01:09:58.319 --> 01:10:01.439 or evil? What are the lines we're drawing there? And why are we 772 01:10:01.520 --> 01:10:11.800 drawing them? Sometimes it's completely arbitrary. Yeah, I just saw a comment 773 01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:20.000 the other day about a person who was responding to somebody else had said something, 774 01:10:20.039 --> 01:10:25.880 and they were talking about again, these things are evil. You know, 775 01:10:25.960 --> 01:10:30.560 they try to lure children into the woods so they can take them. 776 01:10:30.680 --> 01:10:38.199 They you know, sexually assault livestock and kill dogs, and they're just pure 777 01:10:38.279 --> 01:10:42.880 evil. And then you have on the flip side of that, people making 778 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:47.479 comments about how you know they're friendly forest giants. There are friends, they're 779 01:10:47.479 --> 01:10:55.760 protectors of the earth. And then again you have the Nepheline demonic belief system, 780 01:10:56.680 --> 01:11:02.840 and all of these different viewpoints come in and just collide with one another 781 01:11:02.920 --> 01:11:09.680 constantly. And I don't it's not just in the Bigfoot community. It's in 782 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:15.560 all these different aspects of the unknown. It just comes across as coping mechanisms. 783 01:11:15.640 --> 01:11:18.319 That's the only I know. I keep on saying that, but it's 784 01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:25.279 the only thing that makes sense. Not everybody can be right, not everybody 785 01:11:25.279 --> 01:11:29.279 can be wrong, And like you were saying, nobody is going to be 786 01:11:29.359 --> 01:11:33.720 completely right about any of it, and it's something that we really just have 787 01:11:33.840 --> 01:11:41.199 no grasp of understanding right now. Right So, again, the whole point 788 01:11:41.199 --> 01:11:45.960 of this conversation was not to tell anybody that they're right or wrong that Bigfoot 789 01:11:46.000 --> 01:11:50.920 aren't this, or Bigfoot aren't that. It's just to have an open discussion 790 01:11:51.640 --> 01:11:58.359 about this particular train of thought and belief system and kind of break it down. 791 01:11:58.840 --> 01:12:02.039 So, Nathan, I preciate you coming on and helping me do that 792 01:12:02.239 --> 01:12:08.960 with such a complicated, entangled up subject as this. I truly truly appreciate 793 01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:12.600 it, sir, My pleasure, Matt. This is a ton of fun. 794 01:12:13.079 --> 01:12:16.119 I hope gets do again sometimes. Yeah, for sure. If you 795 01:12:16.239 --> 01:12:20.800 have encountered something you can't explain, like Bigfoot or something else, email me 796 01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:25.560 at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. If you get a chance, check 797 01:12:25.560 --> 01:12:29.600 out the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find links to social media, 798 01:12:30.039 --> 01:12:33.359 past episodes, merchandise, everything you need, all in one place. And 799 01:12:33.479 --> 01:12:36.760 until next time, remember there's something in the woods.