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Hello, ladies and gentleman, and
welcome to the five hundred and ninety fourth

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episode of the Geek First podcast.
I am when I was a boy,

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Travis Snell, and I'm joined by
I'm just telling must today. Oh wait,

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I was here first? But was
that your name? Yeah, Dylan,

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I'm meaning, oh wow, yeah, look at this. I did

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not read your guys' names prior to
this. I don't know who was who

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was here first. But Taylor was
in the room for well, actually no,

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Travis, you joined the room,
but you didn't sit down right.

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I was good water. Yeah,
he might have claim to it, then,

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Taylor, I got to say,
it has a good faith. I'll

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change it. It's a tie.
You can go with it. But that's

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super crazy though, I'll go a
couple of boys in the Taylor field,

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Okay, just Ellen or yes,
ladies, gentlemen, we may or may

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not be joined by a mister patz
earliter On. He's in a battle apparently,

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but we'll about that later. We
are here to talk about technically.

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It feels odd that's just this early
on, but the first MCU project of

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the year. But it's good because
after this is gonna be a big,

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big, drought because Deadpool does not
come out to July and as of right

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now, unless like what if or
like Spider Man like comes out or I

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guess x Men, but even then
that's our yeah, even though that's not

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MCU, but like, yeah,
x Men is on the way. So

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but yeah, this is the first
dip into it. So if you like

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what we do here, there is
other things to promote, but we review

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everything MCUY as we talk about the
shows, the movies we just did,

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and Marvel Draft which is not public
yet, but you can go on Patreon

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right now. You can get three
juicy episodes on patron right now, ad

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Forree and early the Marvel Draft,
the movie preview, and the movie draft.

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Golden Geeks are coming up, so
there's lots of good things on Patreon.

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If you don't like ads, that's
the one for you. You also

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get a nice RSS feed, so
lots of good stuff on there right now.

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I'll tell you more about that stuff
later, but yeah, we're here

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for Echo. I'll see. This
is a character that started out in Marvel

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comics, of course, but in
the MCU Realm Hawkeye. She was debut

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there as like a villain and then
they decide oh, we're gonna spin her

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off, And I feel like we
all had questions about what that's gonna go.

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We had heard all it's maybe a
troll production, but then when you

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got this great trailer that everyone's like, oh, maybe there's something there.

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So, Dylan Muss, I'm to
start with you. As usual for anyone

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that's new, we do a nonsports. This will probably be about fifteen twenty

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minutes when it's all said and done. So if you're still watching, or

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maybe the MCU has been rocky for
you, go hey, is this worth

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me even watching five episodes? We
will let you know when we're getting to

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a point where it's beyond return.
So, Dylan Muss, where were you

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at for these five episodes? Overall? I was fairly disappointed in this series.

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I feel like my expectations weren't necessarily
very high, but I was expecting

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something tonally different, maybe even bit
content different, just because of the Marvel

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Spotlight thing that they were really setting
this up. Right, this is the

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new kind of subheader I guess of
the MCU, or it's kind of the

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R rated stuff I suppose, but
it really didn't feel all that different for

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me. In fact, it actually
felt like a bit more kid friendly and

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immature at times than other MCU projects. So I think in that way,

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I was maybe disappointed. But in
terms of like what actually goes on in

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here, there was nothing that was
particularly well. There's a couple things that

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are bad, there was nothing like
outright horrible. I think most of the

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most of it just ended up being
quite middling unfortunately. Uh and uh yeah,

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we can get into the specifics of
why that is, but yeah,

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it just wasn't the most compelling story. There's a couple elements I do really

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enjoy, but I just feel like
I didn't really need five episodes to get

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some of those things. Any of
the really new characters didn't really do it

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for me. I think it mostly
that comes down to writing, but there's

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also some not great acting in this. I felt, I think, you

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know, our main, our main
Echo and Kingpin are great, but other

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than that, I don't know if
there's really ain't many standouts, and uh

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yeah, overall, just pretty underwhelmed, and there wasn't a whole lot here

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that that really surprised me or blew
me away. So uh, definitely disappointed,

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but also yeah, my expectations even
though those trailers were like, seemed

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interesting different. I didn't have my
expectations too high, so not heartbroken.

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Yeah, I will go next because
unfortunately I think I'm pretty. I'm pretty.

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I feel like you. I'd have
to go back, but most time

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you stuff. I feel like the
past year, Dylan and I are pretty

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much in sync on I. I'm
pretty much dead on with you. I

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don't so here I'll start. I
won't give you a rating because I will

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tell you that I'm not even sure
if I'm a pass or fail on the

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show, because I don't think there's
there's okay, some actors I've maybe met,

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but like I don't think it's like
man all the acting cross board really

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weakness the point no, like I
think Alca Cox she's great as Echo.

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I like or her does and didn't
know if you'l always delivers like he's just

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like a constant guy. And even
other people that come in, like a

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person plays her grandma and there's a
couple other side character where I go,

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there's no one that's overly bad.
There's nothing that's like overly bad. Effects

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wise, It's not to me like
Secret Invasion where it just takes a huge

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cliff dive and like all these terrible
decisions and you get guy with the fight

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like nothing like that, and it's
not like Quantum Mania where it feels like

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this big mess. But I think
it's just it's so uninspiring. And that's

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where I will say, so I
won't spoil my rating, I will say,

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and it's really unfortunate for me that
this is in the bottom three of

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my rankings now and it sucks because
now I have secret invasion ant man in

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this. So my bottom three is
just all Phase five stuff. It's not

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it's not good. And that's where
I am. Where the whole the Marvel

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studio or what is it, the
Marvel Spotlight, it doesn't it's it's nothing

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it there's no difference. The ma
Okay, there's a little blood, but

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even that that was super underwhelming for
them to be like it reminds me very

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similar to Moonnight, when like,
oh, you're gonna see fights and brutality

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and here like you've never seen a
Marvel and that wasn't really the case.

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And same thing here. Yeah,
of course you see some blood splatter and

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a bowlgo through, but it's very
tame. And that's why I'd say,

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where I would just have to push
back on people and say, oh,

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this is the closest to Marvel Netflix
it's been. I don't think so at

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all. Like this feels, yeah, this is very light and one thing

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good or bad. Marvel Netflix did
have and sometimes for me it was bad.

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But like for me, someone like
Foggy, you thought that got too

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much screen time. But then there's
times where me and dil are minority.

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But someone like Ward Meechum, I
love that character, and yeah, you

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got two seasons of this character.
That's the problem here where there's a lot

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of characters here and in the five
episodes, there is not enough time to

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connect with any of these people.
It is all cliff notes. I sent

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this to Tailor because he was the
first one closest to where while I was

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at the point watching it, and
I just had to drop him the gift

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from the Grinch of look at that
hack job. And that's what the show

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reminded me where I think this show
definitely had more and they chopped it down.

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I think there's I think this definitely
was at least six episodes, maybe

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seven, but there's stuff just I
think missing from the show, and it

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really that's where for me it might
be a fail that it's not as bad

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as Secret Invasion, it's not as
messy as Quanmedia, but it's just so

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lackluster and uninspiring. I think the
two things they did well that weren't inspiring,

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where the ASL stuff was great.
There's tons of things they do here

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with that, with Maya's disability or
you know, what has affect her life

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that I go, oh, this
is great. Majority of the cast is

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using Sile language. There's this really
cool tech thing they do in the later

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episode. I'm like, oh,
this is really awesome. So that stuff's

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good. I think the culture stuff
too, all works. I just wish

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it was in a better story.
It feels like if you watch Black Panther

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and it was just about the racism
stuff, but then the story wasn't that

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good. That's to me what Echo
is where representation is good. There's tons

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of actors of that community. I
think they try to educate you on some

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things, but I think it's just
kind of like scratches the surface unfortunately,

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and it doesn't feel it doesn't feel
earned a lot of it. It's like

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minor sports. But I think enough
people know. I also just I we'll

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get into it, but there's supernatural
or power aspects in here, and I

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just think they don't gel well with
the story they're telling here as well.

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Everything just feels very rushed and yeah, unfortunately this is just like another big

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disappointment for Marvel. I think this
is like I don't know if you ever

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actually see Echo ever again. Like
I think it's not that bad at the

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show, it's just that forgettable where
it's just there's nothing. There's nothing here,

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and there's characters that could be interesting, including Maya, that they don't

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dive into, including Kingpin they don't
dive into. There's just certain huge storylines

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that they just don't even talk about. Here's one thing I don't care.

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It's my spoilers, but whatever.
Not once does Echo ask Kingpin why he

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had her father killed. Never does
it happen she Never. You would feel

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like if this man that you killed
in Hawke and clearly he's alive right in

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the show. You've seen the market, he's alive, so it's like,

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hey, he's around and they have
conversations. You would think one of the

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questions you would want to ask,
is he why'd you kill my dad?

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We're family. He helped raise me, why'd you do that? That never

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once ever comes up. It never
comes up that Maya has killed innocent people.

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They just treat her in the show
like she's just a regular avenger that's

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off on the side, like and
it's strange where there's a pivot in the

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show where she's like, I'm gonna
be the next queen and then it's like,

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oh, but what if I could
be a hero for my community.

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It's it's all over So that's right, I say, acting's not bad performances,

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some stories aren't so bad, but
it's just it's all surface level.

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My last point before before I throw
to mister Passers, it just feels like

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if you were to go read clifft
Cliff and Cliff Nuts Nuts, if you

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got cliff notes of the show,
if Dale said, hey, I didn't

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see echo, what happened is,
oh, well this happened, and this

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happened, and this happened, and
then it they'll be like, oh,

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I gotta go watch her social and
get the emotional impact of that. The

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problem is when you watch the show, it doesn't have any of that.

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There's connections that they just throw you
a line of like, oh yeah,

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that's my cousin. Oh yeah,
there's that, and that's about it.

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There's frustrating situations. There's constantly the
thing I hate where villain or character is

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beaten and the tour just leaves for
no reason. They've won the fight,

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they could kill this enemy, and
they're just they just leave. They're like,

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got whatever, I'm done with this
just for plot armors. So there's

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tons of issues and it's just yeah, it was it was not it was

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not good. I think that they
were smart to drop this in a binge

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model, because if this was weekly, I think people would jump off after

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episode, maybe even one like I
think this was smarter than to do that.

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But I think this is another case
where one I would not recommend this

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to anybody that's not in the Marvel
and even the Marvel stuff, it's hard

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for me to like Kyle because Kyle
now is more back to mainstream and like,

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I'm not gonna tell him to watch
Echo and he loves Marvel stuff,

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but like, there's nothing here that
you can't watch in a YouTube best stuff,

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and that's what's really unfortunate. So
on many spectrums, it might be

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called uh, you know, spotlight, but it has the same if not

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other problems that Phase four ms,
especially Phase five did, so yeah,

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I was really disappointed. It's not
because just so bad, it's just so

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underwhelming. So I'm gonna throw to
mister pats us pats or you missed that.

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Dylan was kind of same waylength with
me. So do you where are

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you on? Echo? Yeah?
This is this is an interesting one because

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there's a lot of aspects that were
shown here that I actually really really liked.

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And there was many moments throughout the
show that I'm like, man,

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this does not feel like a Disney
Plus show. And that's like or sorry,

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like, this does not feel like
a Marvel Disney Plus show. And

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that was a big positive for me
because it just felt like it really broke

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the barrier. I guess she Hulk
is a very different comparison to some of

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the other MCO shows, but there's
still moments in she Hulk that feels like

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the MCU shows. And that's not
just because we have she Hulk or you

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know, Bruce Banner on there,
like the names that we can see like

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there's just a certain vibe. Maybe
it's maybe it is like the big culture

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thing where like a lot of the
music, it just it doesn't feel like

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a stock standard like free sample that
like the MCU just has and like recycles

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into their shows to just like get
those big action moments. Like I don't

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know, just the overall vibe.
I did quite like the change up there.

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Pretty much all the positives that you
already listed, I completely agree with.

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I think this is I mean,
I've never seen coda. I think

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it's so this is the first project
that I've seen that has like American sign

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language in it, and this is
by far like the best thing I've ever

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like seen trying to like represent that. And yeah, you're you mentioned like

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the usage of the tech that they
have later on the episode, like,

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uh, the episode. It's funny, the whole length of the show almost

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feels like an episode, yes,
later on the in the series, I

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guess I'll call it. So like
all that stuff was really really good.

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I really really love the moments when
it would go from like Maya's perspective and

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it's just like completely dead silent,
and it just kind of like gives you

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a glimpse of to like what kind
of like being a deaf person is,

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and it's just like, man,
like I don't really think about that quite

208
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often and that's just that's just so
crazy to me. I feel like I

209
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totally take my my senses for for
granted now after after watching something like that.

210
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And yeah, all the culture stuff
was really good. I really like

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the cast actually that we had.
But it's like it's like I got a

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bird half baked, but instead of
giving me like the raw parts, they

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just completely took it away. And
I have like a Costco size free sample

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of like my meal, and it's
like, well, I I kind of

215
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want more of that, but uh, I guess that's just what we get.

216
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And I don't really know where we
go from this, Like are we

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gonna get an echo season two of
five episodes? Highly doubt that, So

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it is really really strange. It
definitely feels like they've chopped this one up

219
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and just kind of garnished five episodes
together and just sunk them and gave them

220
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to us. So it is kind
of a weird spot because I did like

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aspects to it, but we don't
get any time to dive into like really

222
00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:28,840
anything like it. It's it's so
strange. You know, I've been playing

223
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Boulders Gates she had for decades that
we just talked, Oh, we'll get

224
00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:35,080
into all the characters because it doesn't
take long to get into that. But

225
00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,480
you know, I've been playing Bouldersgate
and when I first got it, I

226
00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,759
got the two hour free trial,
and that's what this felt like, where

227
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it's just like my time's up and
that's just it, I guess. So

228
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you know, I did give them
my credit card to get the full game

229
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so I could keep playing, but
fortunately I can't do that for Echo.

230
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So very very strange. Uh one, I don't feel like super super strong

231
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if I like pass or fail this
one, because it's just such a weird

232
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anomaly to like compare it to I've
never seen a show like this before,

233
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maybe like a super mini series,
but nothing that's like connected to an entire

234
00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:07,559
universe, right like that that the
MCU is so very strange. One.

235
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It's unfortunate because I really did actually
want to like this a lot. I

236
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really really like You'll to remind me
the main actress's name, but Maya she

237
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was, She's fantastic. I really
really like her in this. I'll call

238
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a Cox saying on I'll get the
full pronunciation, because I feel like I

239
00:14:22,799 --> 00:14:28,080
I liked her quite a bit in
Hawkeye, but getting the whole like just

240
00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,200
diving in from her perspective. I
liked it even more, like just seeing

241
00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,799
her, you know, being being
the spy type character, but also just

242
00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,960
her character moments. I I liked
it enough that I really really wanted more.

243
00:14:37,039 --> 00:14:43,519
So Alka Alka Cox, Alka Cox. Yeah she was great. Yeah,

244
00:14:43,519 --> 00:14:46,879
this is her. She's only done. I didn't realize this echo was

245
00:14:46,919 --> 00:14:50,879
like her first role. And then
I don't think she's done anything else,

246
00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:52,879
so I think, oh, wow, pretty impressive and I'd have to check.

247
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,320
But like she's probably has like under
five credits, so it's like they

248
00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:00,320
got pretty lucky there as far as
just finding a Neil A. Hayesack somebody,

249
00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,919
Yeah, absolutely. I really hope
you can see what comes next.

250
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,120
And I don't know what's gonna happen
with that though, but I don't know.

251
00:15:07,159 --> 00:15:16,399
I'll pass along there. Oh hmmm. I consider myself a man that

252
00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:24,399
likes a lot of things. He
started the Fists started one star review.

253
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,200
I feel like I've read this one
star review, but I feel like Fist

254
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,000
would say that same sentence, Oh
man, it likes a lot of things

255
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:37,039
that goes on. And that being
said, like I think that this show

256
00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:45,320
really struggles to capture its its own
identity of what it's trying to do,

257
00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:50,279
and it gets lost in transition.
And yeah, it's just it's it's a

258
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:54,679
shame because I think that there is
there's a lot of things here that could

259
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,480
have had potential. It could have
made it a really engaging, much more

260
00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,240
engaging story. And you know what, I'm gonna hone in here, all

261
00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:06,080
your listeners, I'm speaking directly to
you right now. I'm sure there is

262
00:16:06,159 --> 00:16:08,720
one, one, two, three, four, maybe even five of you

263
00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:12,720
that really liked this show, maybe
more than five. And that's okay,

264
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:19,639
wrong with that, nothing, nothing
wrong with that. I just think for

265
00:16:19,799 --> 00:16:23,879
me though, there were things that
just weren't driving well. That first episode

266
00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:29,919
was excruciatingly messy. I was trying
to keep up. And the only reason

267
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,759
I was able to, like really
kind of like keep up is Madison was

268
00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:33,600
like, oh, like what's going
on here? I'm like, like,

269
00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:37,559
I don't know exactly, but like
I've managed to figure it out. Because

270
00:16:37,559 --> 00:16:41,440
it was so choppy, so messy
that first episode. I'm not a fan

271
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,960
of it at all. We'll talk
about that. They made a choice,

272
00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:48,759
Yeah, they made a choice.
And so as things progress, it's just

273
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:55,240
character decisions were not making sense to
me. Certain things were going on,

274
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and I just I don't know.
I like how you put that, Travis,

275
00:17:00,039 --> 00:17:03,720
Like, we're just like I don't
know, how did you say that

276
00:17:03,759 --> 00:17:06,440
again? Like she's like an it's
just an avenger and she's going about our

277
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,960
business. How did you word that
sentence? Again? Oh? I don't

278
00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,839
even know. I just know that
she was she wanted to be the queen

279
00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,640
at one point in the show.
Yeah, because she said, well,

280
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,920
we've had a king, how a
queen? And we've seen many shows sopranos

281
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,079
breaking bad word. It's like,
okay, the main character is a villain,

282
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:23,480
you can do that. And even
the writers before like, oh Maye

283
00:17:23,519 --> 00:17:26,000
is a villain, she's not a
heroes damn whatever. Fuck because then in

284
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:33,400
episode three it's just like we're like, there's nothing. I'll wait till spoilers.

285
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,279
But I was not. I was
not sold on that concept of her

286
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,599
saying that. But again, the
things that they were they were culturally going

287
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,440
into was really really interesting, and
I thought that there was again that potential.

288
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,160
I will say there was one scene
that was literally a carbon copy of

289
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:55,000
the Assassin's Creed movie that I thought
was kind of peculiar and I'll highlight see

290
00:17:55,079 --> 00:18:00,440
that is so okayeah, yeah,
like so what any you recommend this?

291
00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:04,240
I already said my things. I
probably wouldn't recommend this unless you're already watching

292
00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:07,599
it, like I think the people
that are gonna watch it will. But

293
00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,160
even if you're a lucid Marble fan, I think you could skip this and

294
00:18:11,559 --> 00:18:14,440
just watch the end credit because that
will set you up for what's next and

295
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,920
you're good to go. It's it's
tricky because, like like I said,

296
00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:25,839
this is my only like ver like
experience seeing like an ASL. Yeah ASL

297
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,759
done like just in media like this, So I feel like if someone was

298
00:18:27,799 --> 00:18:30,319
like curious about how that could be
done, I would definitely recommend it for

299
00:18:30,319 --> 00:18:33,559
that reason. But for like MCU
stuff, definitely not for a good story,

300
00:18:33,599 --> 00:18:37,960
definitely not like even even like the
culture stuff. I think it is

301
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,920
good there, but they don't really
fully dive deep enough that you like really

302
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:45,039
learn like a big big thing about
that culture. So it is tricky.

303
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,680
I think it's very few and far
between that I would make that recommendation,

304
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:52,000
especially because there is just so much
content out there right now, Like I

305
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,119
could definitely just point people in other
directions like I'm not even caught up an

306
00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,440
Invincible. I would love to be
watching Invincible over over this. You know,

307
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:00,880
It's funny. At the end of
the very first episode, they just

308
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:06,119
like show you glimpses of the entire
series. I'm assuming to just keep your

309
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,440
interest in what's to come, knowing
that there there is some action in here,

310
00:19:10,039 --> 00:19:11,920
Like even if I saw that Iam
and like, all right, that's

311
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,279
pretty much the whole show, I
think I'll just move on to the next

312
00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:18,440
series. But you know here we
are reviewing it, so I definitely I

313
00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:21,400
don't know if this is really much
of a spoiler, but the vast amount

314
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:25,039
of people that knew how to sign, I thought that. Again, I

315
00:19:25,079 --> 00:19:29,559
think the signing representation was fantastic,
but it was just interesting how many people

316
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,480
actually knew how majority of them were
family except for like two people, and

317
00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:37,039
that one of those people were her
best friends she grew up with. So

318
00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:37,960
I think there's one character where I
was like, oh, you know how

319
00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:41,559
sign but like all of them were
a cousin, an uncle, a grandma,

320
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,319
right, so they grew up with
her, So you would have to

321
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,440
learn, like if your daughter had
that, I imagine your family would learn

322
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,440
to sign, right, and like
her mom too, like was death,

323
00:19:51,559 --> 00:19:56,079
wasn't she so like just the family
like death? Yeah, yeah, even

324
00:19:56,559 --> 00:20:02,599
because her I guess echo Grandma says
that she learned it for her daughter.

325
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:06,799
Yeah, yeah, I like to. There's kind of like certain characters,

326
00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:10,240
you see, they kind of do
it differently, where some would just sign

327
00:20:10,319 --> 00:20:12,000
and not speak at all, and
then some would like that one guy who

328
00:20:12,039 --> 00:20:15,920
would like speak very clearly, like
just as if he's talking or signing,

329
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,440
like there's no difference, and some
people would like just kind of slightly whisper

330
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,359
it. And I just feel like
there's some good nuance there, Like how

331
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:26,160
all these different characters, you know, however they learned that language, they

332
00:20:26,279 --> 00:20:30,200
kind of all have their own lens
of which they do it. Do you

333
00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:33,720
do you think Daredevil could learn how
to do sign language? I guess you

334
00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:38,039
could, right. No, Well, if he could, he could learn

335
00:20:38,079 --> 00:20:44,119
to he could learn to, uh
perform it, but not perform it,

336
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:51,279
and he cannot echo locate can do
this. He's pretty powerful where he can,

337
00:20:51,319 --> 00:20:53,000
like since those hearts heartbeats and whatnot, So maybe you could. I

338
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:57,400
don't know. Yeah, Travis,
you were asking about the recommendation. Well,

339
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,519
so you said you don't think we'll
see Echo gain do you mean like

340
00:21:00,559 --> 00:21:03,400
Echo season two or do you mean
like at all the MCU, likein she's

341
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:11,279
a done character show for sure.
Not It's tough because this character does represent

342
00:21:11,599 --> 00:21:15,160
things for a few people. So
I don't want to because I don't want

343
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,759
to get umped in with the red
eye thumbnail people and be like, oh

344
00:21:17,839 --> 00:21:19,640
yeah, because it's woken, we're
diversity. So I think she's good to

345
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,720
have there. But I just think
while we're in a era where I think

346
00:21:22,759 --> 00:21:26,960
they should get rid of a lot
of MCU characters, Echo is one.

347
00:21:27,039 --> 00:21:33,039
So maybe we will see her again
because you could see her in an episode

348
00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:34,720
here there, But to have a
big role to be like, let's say

349
00:21:34,759 --> 00:21:38,240
they redid Defenders and stuff, it's
like, I just don't know if you

350
00:21:38,279 --> 00:21:41,880
bring this character around. But I
don't know. Miss Marvel was not watched

351
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:45,119
by many and they still did,
right, so maybe I'm around. But

352
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,400
Echo, like this concept I think
is definitely down. But at the same

353
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:49,559
times, who knows. We got
a new Captain America. We haven't seen

354
00:21:49,599 --> 00:21:52,759
him for like nineteen plus projects,
so it's like if we haven't seen Sam

355
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:56,680
in that long. It's like,
when do we see Echo again? You

356
00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,359
know, yeah, I could.
I don't know what the numbers are on

357
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,279
this, and if, of course, if there's like development issues of production

358
00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,880
whatnot, that would inflate the cost, but I can't imagine this is a

359
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,920
very expensive show, So maybe that
could be an incentive for doing more seasons.

360
00:22:08,960 --> 00:22:11,920
I don't if I had guess right
now, I don't think we'd see

361
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,440
another season, but I think we'll
definitely see the character again. And so

362
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,839
that's kind of where my recommendation lies
is like right now, nah, don't

363
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,160
go watch Invincible season for whatever they're
on and be with Kirkland, you know,

364
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:25,559
catch up on that and wait and
see, like maybe maybe Echo is

365
00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:30,559
in Daredevil in a more substantial way
than Daredevil is in here, and maybe

366
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:32,359
that'd be like, Okay, it'd
be kind of fun to go back and

367
00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:36,039
know more about that character because you
get the origin story stuff in here,

368
00:22:36,079 --> 00:22:38,119
and you get other world set up
things. But I don't think there's many

369
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,039
things that you couldn't just get from
a quick YouTube of some key moments.

370
00:22:42,039 --> 00:22:45,480
And I don't know if you were
like big action set pieces like well,

371
00:22:45,519 --> 00:22:48,160
not that they're big in this show
necessarily, but you could even just watch

372
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,680
a couple of those, so I
guess maybe if anyone is somewhat curious,

373
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,759
I'd say watch the first two episodes
and you'll know if the last three are

374
00:22:56,759 --> 00:22:57,400
going to be in. But then
at that point you're already going to like

375
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,400
halfway through, so you could just
see it to the end. But I

376
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,640
guess that makes the recommendation a bit
easier because it's not too long as far

377
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,880
as so it's like it's one Lower
the Rings movie. Yeah, with credits,

378
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,920
So if you're skipping credits and skipping
the previous the opening credits and the

379
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:18,400
ending credits, that you get through
it pretty quickly. Do you think coming

380
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,640
after Loki that causes some grief to
the show in terms of popularity and excitement

381
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:27,839
and whatnot? In what way?
Yeah? I just feel like because Loki

382
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,960
and the storyline and just everyone was
super hyped on that show, and then

383
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:37,839
you transition to something like this where
it's a lot more low key, not

384
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,960
low key, but more low you
know what I'm saying, Just kind of

385
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,720
like more simmered down and much more
like a down to Earth's kind of story,

386
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:49,160
and it's very different from what Loki
is and do you do you guys

387
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:55,440
think that maybe after everyone's hyped on
just how that finale was in Loki season

388
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:56,920
two transition to this, it's just
like, ah, you know, I

389
00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:00,759
kind of wanted something more. I
think unless you put out a movie the

390
00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:06,160
quality of Avengers Endgame, no matter
what comes out before, it doesn't unpack

391
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,880
what people watch this, and I
think especially hardcore people, once they start

392
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:14,720
to hear about how much Fisk and
Matt aren't in it that much, I

393
00:24:14,759 --> 00:24:17,640
think right away people deter more,
which I'm fine with. I'm not one

394
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,680
of those guys like, oh,
yeah, why isn't they Like I get

395
00:24:19,759 --> 00:24:22,960
why they're in there the amount they
are, but no, I think you

396
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,160
would do pretty much what it's done, like what it would do barring the

397
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,240
MCU being a better place. I
just think most people will skip this because

398
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,200
it's just especially we know Fisk is
gonna be and Daredevil, so it's not

399
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:37,160
like, oh, this is my
one chance to seeded an offer again.

400
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:38,839
It's like we always come in.
So yeah, I think just fills in

401
00:24:38,839 --> 00:24:42,920
a gap a little bit. Yeah, As someone who didn't like Loki season

402
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,359
two, I don't feel it.
I don't feel like on word, even

403
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,799
if I did, I don't think
that would really impact how I felt about

404
00:24:48,799 --> 00:24:52,920
this. But I don't know,
maybe if it just came out like a

405
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,640
week ago. But yeah, it's
it's been a few months of this.

406
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,799
Plus we got what if you know
that was Anicettle, true palate cleanser,

407
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,519
Tati count count your answer. We're
watching Halo season two at the same time

408
00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:07,839
as this. Does it Does it
boost your feeling? Not it? Goo?

409
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:17,279
Or bring it down? Fuck?
It's tough because you haven't seen it

410
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:18,519
yet. You know this could be
a banger. It is tough, but

411
00:25:18,599 --> 00:25:22,319
like based on what I saw on
the trailer, like it would bring echo

412
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:27,599
down. Okay, little the posters
too, posters of any effect, posters

413
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:33,599
another trigger and bring that up.
Yeah, okay, all right, So

414
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:37,200
now we're going to take our first
break and then we'll be getting into spoilers.

415
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,000
So if you've not seen the show, bow out and if you don't

416
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,119
care, then you just stick around. So we'll be right back. And

417
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,119
we were back before we get in
that tear. Where can they find everything?

418
00:25:47,319 --> 00:25:48,160
We do? Like I said,
we got Golden Dieks happening, we

419
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,440
got the movies, drafts, we
got the video game Draft next week and

420
00:25:52,519 --> 00:25:55,240
Golden Geeks this year is special because
we're doing our MC one, we're doing

421
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,319
our regular film once and then we're
doing it like a send off to the

422
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:00,200
DC. We're gonna do the whole
DC because DC is dead. So we've

423
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,680
got three Golden Geeks happening this year, which if you joined Patron, you

424
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,759
get to vote on the winners.
You get to decide all these So where

425
00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:11,160
can they find that stuff? Taylor
at Lease don't find us mee interconnection keepers

426
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,359
as he has our home base.
Keypers casters are Twitter, keek verses or

427
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,160
Facebook. Wow. Yeah, Like
I said, I feel like what we

428
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,960
do? You really want? Support
us? Get stuff exclusive early ad free.

429
00:26:18,079 --> 00:26:22,200
You get about three exclusive episodes a
month. You get retro sometimes like

430
00:26:22,319 --> 00:26:23,880
months early, sometimes a year early, and you just got to add free

431
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:27,119
stuff. Hitdle with the Patreon.
We would very much appreciate that, all

432
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,519
right, So let me just hit
a couple of these comments because we might

433
00:26:30,559 --> 00:26:33,720
go off some of them. But
Super Mike says the flashback episode cold opens

434
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:36,160
were some of the best parts.
Pretty creative. Yeah, I like those,

435
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:37,920
We'll get into them, but I
wish there was a bit more of

436
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,599
that at the end of the phase
you could quite possibly forget it exists.

437
00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:45,039
I think, unfortunately, that's gonna
happen with a lot of the Phase five

438
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:48,200
stuff. I was forgetting stuff about
the show already today and I had just

439
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,839
seen the show two days ago,
So I don't think it's very memorable unfortunately.

440
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:57,480
So question question for you guys,
if if I can take us somewhere

441
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,960
at the start here, is how
do you guys feel about like just all

442
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,799
the time jumps and eras we go
to, because we have, you know,

443
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:10,359
flashbacks to Hawkeye stuff and a lot
of just like seeing those scenes again.

444
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:15,000
I guess just yeah, recapping for
anyone who forgot or hasn't hasn't seen

445
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,440
that before. But then we have
like a moment we have like five months

446
00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:22,240
later jump in the first episode.
We have all these like flashbacks to these

447
00:27:22,279 --> 00:27:26,319
ancestors ancestors and whatnot. I just
feel like it's kind of going all over

448
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:30,000
the place. Sometimes even one episode, you'd be in like three different time

449
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,799
eras at some time at some moments, and you know, it's a pretty

450
00:27:33,799 --> 00:27:37,400
short show. So just felt maybe
a bit too whiplashy for me. And

451
00:27:37,759 --> 00:27:41,559
I think that was maybe one thing
that affected the pacing, But yeah,

452
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,720
where do you guys at with that? I definitely agree. I think like

453
00:27:45,759 --> 00:27:48,759
if you have five episodes, you
really really have to limit your your usage

454
00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:52,799
of those flashbacks. I think some
of them are necessary, like even the

455
00:27:52,839 --> 00:27:56,279
ones that go way back to I
think it said like twelve hundred AD or

456
00:27:56,319 --> 00:28:00,559
whatever the date was. Like,
I think it's fine to show show like

457
00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,480
maybe a character in there with getting
like the Echo power, whatever the hell

458
00:28:03,519 --> 00:28:08,359
it's called. But just like the
whole sports event, the situation, I

459
00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,240
thought that was going on so long, and like I can't remember what episode

460
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,599
that was, in episode two or
three maybe, but like those two yeah,

461
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,440
yeah, it just felt very very
long. And looking back on it,

462
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,000
it's like, man, I know, I know we didn't really have

463
00:28:22,039 --> 00:28:26,440
time in general to dive into things, but maybe we could have had that

464
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,160
conversation between Echo and Kingpin on why
he killed her her father, right,

465
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,200
So I thought some of that stuff
was was overused, and then some of

466
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:37,079
like the back and forth was a
little bit used. But like like I

467
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,359
said, like like the the twelve
hundred and eighty scene, I could have

468
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,200
it really really quickly. Maybe the
first episode show that moment. I didn't

469
00:28:45,279 --> 00:28:48,400
really love it, but it's a
cool little tale of talking about the origin,

470
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:52,240
so that's kind of interesting. And
then I think showing the Hawkeye stuff,

471
00:28:53,359 --> 00:28:56,160
I think it's somewhat important to show
it in here just in case someone

472
00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:00,240
didn't see it in Hawkeye, because
you do need to not kind of know

473
00:29:00,359 --> 00:29:03,880
the relation there and why she is
affected, I guess by that moment and

474
00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,400
how her dad did die. Like
if you didn't see that in Hawkeye and

475
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,519
you just didn't get it here,
I think you would definitely be lost.

476
00:29:10,599 --> 00:29:15,559
So but yeah, I definitely agree
with you comparing it to like the ratio

477
00:29:15,799 --> 00:29:18,799
of flashbacks to actual showtime, Like
it actually is a decent percentage when you

478
00:29:18,799 --> 00:29:22,880
think of just how little screen time
there is in general of the show.

479
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,599
It's a three and a half hour
show in general. Yeah, I agree

480
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:32,680
for the most part, I think, yeah, I think that showed as

481
00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:34,440
a classic Disney blessing. It need
to be longer because I think you could

482
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,839
do more at the flashbacks. I
think they worked like fine enough. I

483
00:29:37,839 --> 00:29:41,960
think the first episode I'm very torn
on because they are trying to make it

484
00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:47,119
this spotlight right, and you need
to their pitches. We want to make

485
00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:48,400
it that anyone can watch us about
having the rest of the show, so

486
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,599
you have to show some of that
Hawkeye stuff. But I just think it

487
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,440
was very clunky the way they did
it. So I'm like a very fifty

488
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:57,559
where I'm like, I'm all down
for kind of retelling her origin story here,

489
00:29:59,559 --> 00:30:02,240
but it feel like we would get
a scene, we get like a

490
00:30:02,279 --> 00:30:06,160
five minute portions of a flashback scene, and then we get Hawkeye footage and

491
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,559
it's like one or two minutes,
but like there's like a massive jump,

492
00:30:07,599 --> 00:30:11,599
like we just go from oh,
we get some scenes of her and Kington

493
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,119
together to like her and the Alley
shooting him. You know, it's just

494
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,440
like, man, we're So that's
where it's like that first episode. I'm

495
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:18,640
not as negative as some people because
some people are like, it's just a

496
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,799
recap episode, how lame. I
don't think it's that. I just don't

497
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:26,039
think it's smooth and the rest of
the series. I'm some of that.

498
00:30:26,079 --> 00:30:27,880
Personally. Would have just taken out
most of the Power stuff, especially I

499
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:32,079
was not a fan. We'll get
there in the finale of how Final Fight

500
00:30:32,119 --> 00:30:36,079
went, the Powers everything, so
I would take out even though visually it's

501
00:30:36,119 --> 00:30:41,079
cool, Maybe you just do one
episode that's all about the uh that stuff

502
00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:42,640
in the past. I think they
did at the beginning and throughout just to

503
00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:45,000
kind of keep you like a mystery
of like, oh, what's going on.

504
00:30:45,079 --> 00:30:49,200
But like when Echo finds out in
episode four that her mom had powers

505
00:30:49,279 --> 00:30:53,480
or something, it's just it's not
like they feel like they're trying to make

506
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:56,440
it like, oh my God,
like we come from this power. It's

507
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,960
like it doesn't feel like any reveal. It doesn't feel like a big miss

508
00:31:00,119 --> 00:31:03,440
three. The first fifty seconds of
the show are showing you these people with

509
00:31:03,519 --> 00:31:06,119
power, so it's like, well, clearly our character is gonna have these

510
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,319
powers, and I don't like these
powers. I don't know. These powers

511
00:31:08,359 --> 00:31:14,079
were pretty confusing. Yeah, they're
pretty lame. And I guess said the

512
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,920
don't kill ititis was in here where
it's just I got these people dead the

513
00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:22,240
rights and I'll rant about that later, but yeah, I think I would

514
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:23,920
be more for it with a longer
run time, but we don't have that,

515
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,759
So they should have cut that and
a lot of stuff out and replaced

516
00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:33,440
it with other things. In my
opinion, So yeah, that first episode

517
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,240
it was it was not my favorite, just the way they were jumping around

518
00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:41,079
so much and transitioning, and it
just felt accelerated. I did not.

519
00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:45,519
I just didn't like it. And
I feel like, yes, it does

520
00:31:45,799 --> 00:31:51,079
have to serve as that like catch
up for people that maybe haven't seen Hawk

521
00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:52,240
I. So you get to see
it and it gives you a very very

522
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:57,519
choppy explanation as to how Echo got
to where she is now, especially because

523
00:31:57,519 --> 00:32:00,000
we get a little bit more filler
as well with and just know how Kingpin

524
00:32:00,039 --> 00:32:05,279
kind of took her under his wing
and whatnot. But yeah, there's just

525
00:32:05,319 --> 00:32:07,000
there's so much going on that I
just felt it was it was still convoluted

526
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:12,079
and confusing to kind of line it
up. The flashbacks, I didn't mind

527
00:32:12,119 --> 00:32:15,839
them as as much as I thought
I would, though It's it was cool

528
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:20,599
to kind of see the the think
of the culture and just the different generations

529
00:32:20,599 --> 00:32:22,720
and the carrying on of this power
kind of going through. I definitely don't

530
00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:28,519
mind the power as much. I
think that it was confusing how they could

531
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:30,880
access it, Like do they have
control of it or is the ancestors that

532
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,720
just pick a moment when you need
to use it or I'm not sure how

533
00:32:34,759 --> 00:32:38,200
it gets really focused when you well, like you said, Travis, we'll

534
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,680
talk more about it later, but
just to kind of touch upon it,

535
00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:46,079
I'm kind of getting exhausted with the
whole all the whole family kind of helps

536
00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:50,240
you out, helps the hero kind
of thing, because like Blue Beetle did

537
00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:52,839
it, I feel like Miss Marvel
has some of that too, and I'm

538
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:54,920
just not really driving with the shazam. Yeah, so I'm really kind of

539
00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:00,279
getting over it now, so like
leave it to guardians and that's like,

540
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,119
I'm with you. I'm so over
this trope of all the family super too.

541
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,200
It's like I don't give a shit, Like it's just like I did

542
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,440
not just need to see her grandma
like punting guys across the room. I

543
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:14,799
didn't because right away Echo, because
like she doesn't feel special at all anymore.

544
00:33:14,839 --> 00:33:16,680
Right away it's just like, okay, and you all the family special.

545
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:20,559
I don't want that the show's called
Echo. I don't need her family

546
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,759
to have these powers because then it's
just like so her grandma could have got

547
00:33:23,759 --> 00:33:29,200
these powers and taken down Kingpin and
their goons. It's just like again like

548
00:33:29,359 --> 00:33:32,400
I don't care. We'll talk about
now we're in here. Didn't I feel

549
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,640
was great? And it just sucks
because great performance here, but like that

550
00:33:37,759 --> 00:33:40,559
wasn't a problem Hawkeye write. But
it's the same thing why they keep jobbing

551
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:45,680
out this fucking character. They had
him lose the Kate Bishop first go around

552
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:49,039
and then like he got sewn the
headset and in that fucking Hawaiian suit.

553
00:33:49,079 --> 00:33:52,079
I know it's from the comics,
it doesn't matter. So those Midnight Angels

554
00:33:52,119 --> 00:33:54,480
from Black Panther and those suck too. But this idea of like again,

555
00:33:55,000 --> 00:34:00,000
he has everyone dead to rights with
guns and this family just whips their gun

556
00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:02,160
yards ass. He's on his knees
and I'm all fine for like, I

557
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,880
like the scene where she goes back
sends back to when he's a child.

558
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:09,039
That's all good stuff like that.
I was laughing because I shouldn't have laughed,

559
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:15,280
but just he's like he's just like
Io, but his acting there was

560
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:22,360
pretty sad. Yeah in the bedroom
too. As soon as soon as it

561
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,760
went to that, she's like he
doesn't even look young there. I'm like,

562
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:30,920
I don't think he's supposed to be
a kid. It's total extra wig.

563
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:35,360
Yeah. No's just the way he's
like panicking and like freaking out,

564
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,559
Like I don't know what it was
like, I know he's trying to sell

565
00:34:37,599 --> 00:34:39,239
the moment because it's like it's like
it's traumatic for him. But he's like,

566
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,960
I'll push back big time there because
it's it's echo putting the feelings of

567
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,320
a ten year old boy and a
girl man's body. And that's why I

568
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,280
thought was like perfectly done there,
because he's just freaking out and like,

569
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:52,719
and that's I'm surprised, Dylan,
you're not for because I feel like we

570
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,880
got that in the Daredevil series too, where he would act very immature,

571
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,079
like a big baby at times.
So I just felt like this fit exactly

572
00:35:00,159 --> 00:35:02,519
for what he is. They should
have put like a kid in that scene.

573
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:07,440
I feel like that you can go
you go in second. Yeah,

574
00:35:08,199 --> 00:35:12,480
I don't know if I can recall
a moment from Daredevil enough to make that

575
00:35:12,519 --> 00:35:15,559
comparison, just because it's been so
long, but uh so, yeah,

576
00:35:15,599 --> 00:35:19,480
maybe maybe that's like an apt comparison. That's what they are going for there,

577
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,880
but it just it just came across
as very cheesy to me. But

578
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,760
I think it also is just and
this is another note I had which kind

579
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,719
of kind of rolls in here that
to me, like as much as I

580
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:34,079
love Donofrio, like he Kingpin does
not have the gravitas that he does from

581
00:35:34,119 --> 00:35:38,440
those Marvel Netflix shows, just because
of the whole everything surrounding it, and

582
00:35:38,519 --> 00:35:43,519
so this character is just not that
engaging to me. I like some of

583
00:35:43,519 --> 00:35:46,880
the conversations that him and Echo have
in isolation there, but in terms of

584
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,400
Kingpin being this big scary figure,
it's not coming through at all, unfortunately,

585
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,679
And so when you get to certain
moments like that too, it's just

586
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,159
he's just not working for me.
And so obviously I have faith that can

587
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:02,480
turn it around because I really like
Hawkeye, but obviously my favorite part of

588
00:36:02,519 --> 00:36:07,159
Hawkeye is not Kingpin's appearance there.
So I'm really hoping that we can turn

589
00:36:07,199 --> 00:36:09,239
it around with his appearance in Daredevil, and like, he's in this a

590
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,880
decent amount, and I don't hate
all of this stuff by any means,

591
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,760
but yeah, there's a couple of
parts that just came across as cheesy or

592
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,719
just didn't totally fit with what's going
on, because Kingpin's a character that I'm

593
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,719
so used to is being like a
very mature type of character, and we're

594
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:27,360
doing this show, but the only
mature part about it is like the blood,

595
00:36:27,639 --> 00:36:29,679
which gives him like the r ratium. But in terms of like all

596
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,360
the like, I don't think a
single character like swears in this show,

597
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:36,360
you know, like it feels very
Pg. Thirteen, with the exception of

598
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:38,480
like, yeah, the odd person
gets shot in the head and it's slightly

599
00:36:38,519 --> 00:36:42,639
brutal, but other than that,
like they very easily could have cut around

600
00:36:42,639 --> 00:36:45,079
that stuff and had this not be
Marvel Spotlight. In my opinion. The

601
00:36:45,119 --> 00:36:50,119
other downside tooth King fin I found
in piggybacking what you're saying there, Dylan

602
00:36:50,599 --> 00:36:53,519
that he his his fear factor comes
from other people saying, oh, he

603
00:36:53,599 --> 00:36:58,119
wiped out everyone, like I'm I'm
old and alone. Why do you think

604
00:36:58,159 --> 00:37:00,119
that is because King King wipe to
everyone I love? Is like, so

605
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:01,920
that's the only fear we're getting is
based on what other people are saying with

606
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,559
words. The only action we got
that was fearful of Kingpin wasn't beating up

607
00:37:06,599 --> 00:37:09,119
the ice cream man. That's a
that's a great point because obviously, like

608
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,960
you know, me and Travis and
people have watched Daredevil can like bring in

609
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,920
that information, even if for me
it's a few years old at this point.

610
00:37:15,119 --> 00:37:17,880
But yeah, for you guys,
like you're just being told everything you're

611
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,960
not shown anything with Yeah, you're
right that there is that ice cream shop.

612
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:23,440
But once again I feel like that
maybe it didn't quite have the impact

613
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,280
it should have, just because Wow, it was like a trailer thing.

614
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,440
I kind of have seen that before, so when it popped up in the

615
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:30,800
show wasn't as surprising. The short
time that I was watching Daredevil, I

616
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,760
got to see him completely fox him
up with the car door, and that

617
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:37,360
that's like stuck with me on like
the fear factor with him, so like

618
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:42,039
I have not even seen all Daredevil, but still that scene and like the

619
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,800
level of fear that he can do. It's, yeah, every time you

620
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:51,440
close the doors like jump in,
Yeah, he turns in a little kingpin.

621
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:53,880
But like but like that one moment
was enough for me to like think

622
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:58,159
so highly of like the fear factor
that this character can bring, and Hawkeye

623
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:00,320
definitely did not have it for me. I quite chuckled at that appearance,

624
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,920
and I was really looking forward to
just seeing what it could be like here,

625
00:38:04,039 --> 00:38:06,840
especially knowing that it is r rated
because I've seen him suck up someone

626
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,039
with the car what else is gonna
fuck someone up with? And the frozen

627
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:14,440
the frozen tree? Yeah, guy, yeah, like even that, like

628
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,280
it it felt very PG that someone
like edited blood on afterwards, like like

629
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:22,719
like it didn't seem too graphic overall. And yeah, I'm completely agreeing.

630
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,159
I'm completely in agreeance with what you're
saying there, Dyling. I've just I

631
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,079
really am not loving this, uh
like this version of Dared Devils so far,

632
00:38:30,079 --> 00:38:34,880
because he's not bringing that gravitas.
And that's just like even in even

633
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:37,679
in Spider Verse, like he's he's
like, you don't have so much time

634
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,719
with the character, but man,
he fucking kills Spider Man and he's so

635
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:45,440
scary, just like the way that
he he waddles around with his giant figure,

636
00:38:45,559 --> 00:38:47,320
like he just brings so much energy. I was gonna say energy,

637
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:51,559
so much fear maybe to the room
that he enters, and really have not

638
00:38:51,639 --> 00:38:53,320
had that yet and that that was
a big disappointment because he was in every

639
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:58,199
episode but one in this in this
show, so I really really was hoping

640
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:01,320
for more of that. So he
was, but it's like for like what

641
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,239
Mike says, it's like a cup
of coffee, Like that's the problem.

642
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:07,679
And that's that's where I will push
back when some people go, oh,

643
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:09,559
well, you know there's no Kingpin. Yeah, because it's my show.

644
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:14,679
But it's like, I still feel
like the Daredevil season one in three were

645
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,760
Matt's show, but Fisks still had
a big role and you can make him

646
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,039
a character. And that's one thing
I don't like, is like, oh

647
00:39:21,079 --> 00:39:22,280
well, because it's my show,
just has to just be a her.

648
00:39:22,599 --> 00:39:25,800
You can have multiple characters have a
spotlight, and she still be is the

649
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,039
one that is the main focus,
that rais all up brings all together.

650
00:39:30,119 --> 00:39:32,199
And that's the problem here that Fisk
is just it's a cup of coffee.

651
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:35,239
He's around a little bit. And
that's why I was trying to say it

652
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,639
the fear factor. It's like,
Okay, so in Hawkey he gets shot

653
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,960
and the only reason he lives one
they don't explain how he survived a gunshot

654
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:45,840
to they had He's just fine,
but like he just survived because like a

655
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,159
fluke. Okay, And in this
one he survives because Echo lets him walk

656
00:39:50,159 --> 00:39:53,199
away. And I don't really understand
why she lets him walk away, as

657
00:39:53,199 --> 00:39:58,159
she clearly wanted to murder him.
I know she sees his pain and all

658
00:39:58,159 --> 00:40:01,079
this stuff. That doesn't matter.
He still killed your dad. He's done

659
00:40:01,079 --> 00:40:05,639
all these terrible things, like I
didn't buy for a second, Like I

660
00:40:05,639 --> 00:40:07,840
don't know why they're obsessed with this, because I think they did this in

661
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,800
Hawkeye too. It's just like have
a distraction and let Kingpin at least get

662
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:15,039
away this thing of like letting him
walk away. So it's like he's been

663
00:40:15,079 --> 00:40:19,280
shaw in the head. He lost
to Echo's grandma very easily, and they

664
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,159
just let him go back to his
car. What is there to fear about

665
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:24,519
this guy? Like he most times
we've seen him, he loses. It's

666
00:40:24,559 --> 00:40:28,760
just like I don't care if he's
gonna become mayor he's just gonna lose it.

667
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,840
That too, like cool, he's
like on top of that, you

668
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:37,159
additionally have the majority of the confrontations
where Echo is like having the one on

669
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:39,400
one with him, it's him like, oh, just kill me, put

670
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,559
me out of my fear, like
either like she's and she just leaves him

671
00:40:43,639 --> 00:40:47,320
like kill him. Yeah, and
that's my issue too, Like I'll go

672
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:52,159
around to mine in a second.
But yeah, it sucks because for me,

673
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:58,559
I solve zero problems with the performance
of Donofrio, But like it's just

674
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:00,840
it's what they're giving him. So
I really hope dared devil can turn around.

675
00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:04,400
But to me, because to me, it's like a one strike,

676
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,679
two strike three straight, like this
is I'm get so excited about the idea

677
00:41:07,679 --> 00:41:10,119
of yeah, king Pin is the
Aspiderman four villam but it's like if they

678
00:41:10,199 --> 00:41:15,559
keep this up, it's like the
interest will not be there other than you

679
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:21,800
know, don to keep calling Donafrie
off for an oro is like I'm happy

680
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:23,519
for him, and I know what
they give him will be solid wise him

681
00:41:23,599 --> 00:41:28,719
like performing it, but it's it's
really disappointing. And that's where it feels

682
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,960
like Netflix light again. But that's
why even with the Maya Fist connection,

683
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:35,679
I feel like we don't get that
much because he's in the show, but

684
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,559
it's lots of flashbacks. He's gonna
come back till the end of episode three

685
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,760
where he pops up at the trailer
right and it scares him and everything.

686
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,280
So they go to sit down and
I messaged it because he was around the

687
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:45,719
same point I was at the time, and I was like, this frustrated

688
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,000
me so much. Where he's like, oh, it's Sunday, we do

689
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,360
our Sunday dinners and she's like it's
Thursday, Like oh, well, you

690
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,639
know, it's been a while and
you know, get the wine and you

691
00:41:53,679 --> 00:41:58,119
know they do the wine poison and
then they sit down and he said,

692
00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,360
I want you to come back,
and you got lots of the think about.

693
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,280
He gets up in here cookies first, and then she says, no,

694
00:42:02,400 --> 00:42:04,920
oh, I don't want to go
like the wine. And then he's

695
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,239
like, I want you to come
back, and uh, I'll be waiting

696
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,400
for you. He gets up and
leaves. I thought, like, I'm

697
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:14,440
like, oh, we're about to
get a solid ten to fifteen minute dare

698
00:42:14,639 --> 00:42:19,639
like something about these characters get down
to brass tacks and they've even cheated and

699
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,400
brought this great tech thing of He
has his ipiece so he doesn't have to

700
00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:28,000
sign, and she like they can
understand each other without signing. It's perfect.

701
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,559
And they talk about nothing. They
talk about literally nothing for this dinner

702
00:42:32,599 --> 00:42:37,039
scene. And why does Kingpin want
her back after trying to kill him?

703
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:43,239
Yeah? Why does Echo not want
to kill him anymore? Why will Kingpin?

704
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,719
Why does he feel the need to
kidnap the entire family at the palou

705
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:52,440
to get her back? Like these
none of these motivations or character choices make

706
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:55,480
sense with these two. Like I
was so frustrated with the last half where

707
00:42:55,679 --> 00:43:00,840
they're just doing things for the sake
of Saturday Morning Cartow type of action,

708
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,400
because I just feel like Fist would
go, Okay, you're not gonna join

709
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,039
me and have her killed? Why
does he care? Why does he go

710
00:43:06,119 --> 00:43:07,760
after the fan? Like, why
does he put himself at risk at all

711
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:12,000
doing any of this? Like what
is the like, what's the deal?

712
00:43:12,159 --> 00:43:15,320
I don't I feel like by that
point it's although he even like says like

713
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,719
I'm the one that killed your father, and like it is like that big

714
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:22,599
climactic moment, it still feels like
like he doesn't really want to kill her

715
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:24,079
or anything. It's just like come
back to me or put me out of

716
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:29,280
my vincery. Like he just seems
like I don't know this this beaten dog

717
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:31,679
that just keeps going back to his
own or being like echo in this situation

718
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:35,679
and like more things to worry about
than just I know. I know that

719
00:43:35,679 --> 00:43:37,880
that that that was driving me insane, Like he's just in this like small

720
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:42,480
town New York is just running free. I feel like he's supposed to just

721
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,760
have like an iron grip and all
of crime and all of New York,

722
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,760
like he is the Kingpin and he
just he's he's on a vacation. I

723
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:53,360
guess he's on a sabbatical and he
just seems so wimpy. Oh yeah,

724
00:43:53,440 --> 00:44:00,320
yeah, that's why does she not
ask about the dad? Dylan? Wouldn't

725
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,599
you want to know why someone Canada
she killed? I would. I would

726
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:06,840
love to know what one thing I
do like And I forget if it's during

727
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,440
that dinner scene or if it happens. I think it happens later on actually

728
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:14,960
when she calls him out for using
that device to talk to her, and

729
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:16,920
she's like, you didn't even bother
to learn this, Like you just got

730
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:20,960
this device and staid and that just
made him so that made him have like

731
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,800
a little hissy fit. So I
like that part that comes out of all

732
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:28,480
of it. But yeah, you're
right that there's definitely a few plotfors man.

733
00:44:28,519 --> 00:44:32,880
I really feel like I hope that
Kingpink goes all of Daredevil, like

734
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:37,800
whatever, season one without losing a
single fight, you know, just gain

735
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,679
in power. Like I just want
him to sit somewhat in the background at

736
00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:44,639
this point and like send other people
out to do his bidding. But yeah,

737
00:44:44,679 --> 00:44:49,360
like as you're saying, Kirkham,
like I guess through this whole series

738
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:52,280
here, I guess from the end
of Hawkeye to now and even during Hawkeye

739
00:44:52,280 --> 00:44:55,079
that we don't really know what he's
doing, like what his goal is it

740
00:44:55,079 --> 00:44:58,960
because you know, to I guess
we could I don't know if we want

741
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,280
to talk about postcards. But it
kind of comes over here where it's like,

742
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,159
you know, we have the Mayor
thing getting set up here, which

743
00:45:05,639 --> 00:45:07,320
I guess wasn't too exciting, just
because we kind of saw this coming,

744
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,760
not necessarily maybe as a post credit
scene, but even I think we did

745
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,679
talk about that in Predictions, so
we kind of see this coming. But

746
00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,760
it seems like until that he's seeing
this random news show or these two characters

747
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:21,639
talking that is this is not something
he had considered or his building towards or

748
00:45:21,679 --> 00:45:24,159
was working towards. I was like, what has he been doing in New

749
00:45:24,239 --> 00:45:27,639
York? Is he just hanging out? Like I kind of forget what some

750
00:45:27,679 --> 00:45:30,519
of these plot points are in Hawkkey, because I know he lost you know,

751
00:45:30,599 --> 00:45:31,719
some of his people there and he
got shot in that he was gone

752
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,719
for a few months and all that. But it's like, yeah, this

753
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:37,960
whole plan for Mayor doesn't seem like
this was like some big grand plan in

754
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:39,679
a Thanos or a Kang Start way
of like building up to this moment.

755
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,679
It's more just like, oh,
man, I watched this news news program

756
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:49,039
that really inspired and now I'm gonna
run for president because they need a brawler,

757
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:52,119
they need a fighter. I also
felt like all the dialogue there was

758
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:54,199
so cheesy, and I don't know, maybe that's very indicative of what those

759
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,880
news shows are, like like a
Fox News or something I don't really watch.

760
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,320
I don't know punch that kind of
stuff, So maybe that is how

761
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:05,039
those those kind of newscasters and personalities
talk on his coaches. But it felt

762
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:07,840
particularly cheesy to me. It just
felt like they may as well say,

763
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,280
like, we really need Wilson Fisk
to run. Yeah, they described everything

764
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,719
about him. We need someone with
white suits. We need someone he'll his

765
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:19,519
father with a hammer, someone that
would just hammer this town down. Oh,

766
00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:23,559
I think it's great. Is ever
a nice cream someone that, yeah,

767
00:46:23,599 --> 00:46:27,760
someone will kill his niece's father,
but want to still be friends with

768
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,239
the niece, like someone who it
almost sounds like me. Yeah, and

769
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:37,320
I'm interesting because we talked about this
news where like they've said that the Marvel

770
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,480
Netflix stuff is Cannon and like you're
not just touch for you guys, but

771
00:46:39,599 --> 00:46:44,360
like he's like I know, like
he's known, had done some bad stuff,

772
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:45,480
And I get I know people are
gonna make the Trunk comparisons, but

773
00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:51,000
it's like Trump's still never been like
arrested, put in prison for anything,

774
00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,519
where king pinhasak a few times.
So yeah, I guess you know a

775
00:46:53,559 --> 00:46:57,280
new Year knew him. But I
guess that's just the problem where that back

776
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,840
half it just feels so just lost, like we don't know really what may

777
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,840
is up to because this whole thing
start. And that's where, like Courtney

778
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,039
said something, I think if this
was a longer season, it'd be great

779
00:47:08,039 --> 00:47:13,280
if she episode two she drops that
line, we've had a king as signed

780
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:15,199
for a queen. It'd be great
if she was slowly starting to take over

781
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,840
build up and he shows up like
hey, like this is my territory,

782
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,440
like a full Walter White, like
like you know you shot me. You

783
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,280
know I love you, so I'm
not gonna come after you for that,

784
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,639
but you gotta stop doing this stuff
now. Are we gonna come after you?

785
00:47:27,639 --> 00:47:30,079
But it's not. He just wants
her to be back for something,

786
00:47:30,119 --> 00:47:34,320
like just for Sunday dinner's cool,
but like again, so she's saying Kingpin

787
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,920
is a criminal, he's killed many
people. So in episode two she's saying,

788
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,440
I want to be the Queen.
So she wants to be the female

789
00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:43,360
version of Kingpin. But by the
end of the series, we're supposed to

790
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:45,840
treat her like a hero, like
we're rooting for her, like when she

791
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:50,599
gets her leg back and her grandfather's
like, I want you to wear this

792
00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:53,320
to represent the community. Why so
when she's curb stomping like people that owe

793
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:58,519
her money, like, it was
so weird this pivot of the first two

794
00:47:58,559 --> 00:48:01,679
episodes she maybe wants to be the
next Kingpin and they just drop that because

795
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:06,719
Kingpin comes back and now she's like
a hero, not a hero. So

796
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,000
that was my problem too, that
they never made that jump from oh,

797
00:48:09,039 --> 00:48:13,119
she is at a villain anti hero
to someone we should root for. It

798
00:48:13,159 --> 00:48:16,000
was just this really weird gray area
character where we're just supposed to be kind

799
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:21,880
of fine with her killing innocent people
because she found like her ancestors and it's

800
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:28,199
like, oh cool, Like no
no direction for her as a character and

801
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,280
growth. I was I was gonna
say, before we drift too far with

802
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:36,599
Echo. I have one more Kingpin
question here. Okay. There there was

803
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:39,000
a scene, I think it was
episode four where they're having their Sunday dinner

804
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:45,079
and the translator was doing a signing
for Kingpin and I don't know if I

805
00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:47,320
missed something, but the translator was. Kingpin's like, you're dismissed, and

806
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:50,760
the translator walks out and he's like, I won't tell anyone, and then

807
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,920
it gets capped and then killed.
What why? It's because she she knows

808
00:48:54,920 --> 00:49:00,440
too much. Oh, because she's
been there the whole time in that like

809
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:04,880
and it is very reduced, but
it's supposed to be that she's been there

810
00:49:05,079 --> 00:49:07,119
the whole time, literally probably telling
Echo, hey go do this, go

811
00:49:07,199 --> 00:49:09,440
kill this person, stuff like that. So that's what it's like. She's

812
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:14,960
literally given Echo like death orders like
bounties, and now it's like, hey,

813
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:19,719
you're done, we're now. He
doesn't need Like Jesus, he couldn't

814
00:49:19,480 --> 00:49:22,199
be note and give it. He
does now. But now maybe that's when

815
00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:23,880
he got his tech in the mail. He's like, yeah, I don't

816
00:49:23,920 --> 00:49:28,119
need the trance anymore. And now
and that's the jump over where it's like

817
00:49:28,159 --> 00:49:30,159
right before Hawkey, where she's like
a leader of the group, right,

818
00:49:30,239 --> 00:49:32,000
so she like gets her own people
on her sands, SI stuff like that.

819
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:35,599
So I still think it's like,
I guess, yeah, you need

820
00:49:35,599 --> 00:49:37,400
the tech because, like you,
fist doesn't know signs, so he's still

821
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:43,159
always gonna need somebody there. But
the Hammer Industries tech probably, Yeah,

822
00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:45,880
he does know a little sign she
says that, but he does know like

823
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:51,320
a few well just like blows up
in her eye. Classic camera tech.

824
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,679
That's how he gets her that that
death scene though, like that's something that

825
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,800
I feel like that's a kingpin sort
of thing to do, and that was

826
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:01,320
about very limited to me. Yeah, Okay, as soon as I saw

827
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,679
the sheet, I'm like, oh
my god, we're going for you.

828
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:08,239
I'm gonna see the Dexter sheet.
Yeah. I was gonna say, oh

829
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:12,480
yeah, just uh before I forget, I wanted to mention when you're talking

830
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,960
about like the whole echo uh motivation, like the whole queen dynamic like that.

831
00:50:16,159 --> 00:50:19,800
I think that's the very first episode, right, like when that happens

832
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,960
when she's dropping that line, or
maybe the second episode. It's really early

833
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,800
on the show now that when she's
talking to the gut because she no it's

834
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,039
a second the second episode. No, it's a second episode because she does

835
00:50:29,039 --> 00:50:32,039
the whole thing on the train and
that's when she because he says, don't

836
00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:36,199
get involved in this stuff, she
does, and that's when she's like maybe

837
00:50:36,199 --> 00:50:38,159
it's time for like a queen instead
of a king. And it's kind of

838
00:50:38,159 --> 00:50:40,360
like the oh ship, you know, So like yeah, like that's like

839
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,559
really in the show. I'm like, Okay, this, like this is

840
00:50:43,599 --> 00:50:45,440
gonna be the show. This is
gonna be these five episodes. She's just

841
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:50,239
gonna, yeah, like be dismantling
Kingpin. I've seen her already like destroy

842
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,599
one weapons pack, and like what
else is she going to be doing the

843
00:50:52,639 --> 00:50:55,159
show? That is literally the end
of that, like like that is the

844
00:50:55,239 --> 00:51:00,519
end of her whole takedown Fisk whole
situation, because I I feel like from

845
00:51:00,519 --> 00:51:02,599
that point on, like she's just
she's just kind of like trying to find

846
00:51:02,599 --> 00:51:07,599
herself and like like trying to avoid
past friends and family in the town.

847
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,079
Like it really has nothing to do
with bringing down Fisk at all. It

848
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,800
just just kind of dead at that
point though too. Remember when she goes

849
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:15,760
to the Queen, he's dead.
So I was so excited to just see

850
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:20,039
this, like Big Master plan on
how she's gonna be either just taking down

851
00:51:20,079 --> 00:51:22,719
his empire and then like starting her
own or whatever it might be. But

852
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,280
like she becomes a criminal, it's
like, oh, that's cool. Imagine

853
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:30,039
that a series about she becomes the
new villain of like a Marvel show.

854
00:51:30,079 --> 00:51:31,599
It's like, oh, that's fun. But Queen Pin, Yeah, like

855
00:51:32,079 --> 00:51:37,239
give me that show. But it
ends in that second episode. Then she's

856
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:38,920
just kind of on the back foot
because Fist does show up later on,

857
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:43,960
and I mean we've already been talking
about those stuff. He's just like,

858
00:51:45,159 --> 00:51:55,360
don't run nast. Yeah, So
what you're saying there of like that storyline

859
00:51:55,400 --> 00:52:00,480
being dropped. I think for me
where the weakest episode of the Bunch was

860
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,760
episode three. For me, the
very middle episode here. This is the

861
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:07,639
one where we spend like most of
the episode at that like skate arcade.

862
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:10,519
I don't even know what you would
call that, just that that that fun

863
00:52:10,519 --> 00:52:15,159
house, so to speak, because
I just felt like most like we got

864
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:17,559
like I feel like they're setting up
this character of this the employee that worked

865
00:52:17,559 --> 00:52:22,679
there, uh, and he had
like this kind of discount Boyd Holbrook sort

866
00:52:22,679 --> 00:52:25,320
of energy to him too, and
he was like he captured echo, and

867
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,559
was like trying to get you know, get this money set up from this

868
00:52:29,679 --> 00:52:31,960
other guy who you know, the
classic Russian guy that like no one knows

869
00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:35,480
this actor's name, but you've seen
him as a villain and like a million

870
00:52:35,519 --> 00:52:38,760
things before, that guy making his
debut in the MCU here. But it's

871
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,719
like, yeah, we spend so
much time of this guy. But then

872
00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:44,840
like almost all his dialogue is just
where's my money? What am I going

873
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:45,960
to see that money? When am
I gonna get that money? He asks

874
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,400
that question like at least eight times. It is ridiculous. And so this

875
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,559
whole episode is involving these characters that
ultimately don't matter and I don't care about

876
00:52:55,599 --> 00:53:00,880
and don't really turn out to be
anything other than just like wrote bumps essentially.

877
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:02,840
And then even that guy like got
dies and it's like, why did

878
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,000
we spend any amount of time with
him? More like half the much of

879
00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:09,000
the time that we spent with him, And then you have these other like

880
00:53:09,559 --> 00:53:12,719
he's like, I don't know,
they're doing this kind of Bonnie and Clyde

881
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:15,880
thing who his his girlfriends there,
and then there's other this third person,

882
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:20,400
all of them not great acting,
very weird characters didn't really add anything,

883
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,760
and then they're all just kind of
this one episode arc as well. So

884
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,400
it's very bizarre, and I just
felt like that whole episode was a waste

885
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:29,760
of time in my opinion. But
Dylan doesn't that feel like Netflix Stare or

886
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:32,159
Devil. But when you had ten
episodes and those characters would get like a

887
00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:37,119
four to five episode arc, I'm
not sure if you you probably won't remember

888
00:53:37,159 --> 00:53:38,320
this as a hard pull, but
it's like there's a guy in the first

889
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:42,039
season, Punisher, who's like a
war vet, and it's all building up

890
00:53:42,039 --> 00:53:45,440
to him like turning and being like
a sniper. Like he's not the same

891
00:53:45,159 --> 00:53:50,119
those Marvel Netflix shows are not just
about Daredevil or Punished Jess, because you

892
00:53:50,280 --> 00:53:52,719
like, there's so many other people
in there, and you know, we

893
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:54,400
talked about a lot of those reviews
how some of those characters don't work for

894
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,400
us, and a lot of them
do get a ton of screen time.

895
00:53:57,639 --> 00:54:01,320
But yeah, there's usually three or
four five I've six standout characters in a

896
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,920
season that you can talk about have
a bigger discussion on, but most of

897
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:07,880
them in this aren't really that other
than like it's really Echo and Kingpin.

898
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,519
Then everyone else is kind of just
maybe worth a quick mention in my opinion.

899
00:54:12,599 --> 00:54:14,960
So, and this is a guy
to me felt like in a Netflix

900
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:17,639
show, he would have had a
four episode arc. But he's just like

901
00:54:17,679 --> 00:54:21,880
we even like the first episode we
meet him, he supposedly was like a

902
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,119
bounty hunter like like has his like
head to the ground, like ear to

903
00:54:25,159 --> 00:54:28,880
the ground, like what's going on? And it's same thing, like how

904
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:31,559
adjacent? Because I can't where did
they say they were? Do you remember

905
00:54:31,639 --> 00:54:34,760
like the city or the place?
Like I was just trying to figure out

906
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,320
how in Oklahoma? It's an Oklahoma, so like how far is that away

907
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:42,440
from New York? I don't know. I just felt like they're talking.

908
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:45,760
It felt like it was BVS.
Where Metropolis and Gotham City we're like across

909
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,360
the bay from each other. It's
like, why is so much of the

910
00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:51,960
New York? They really do make
it seem like a quick ty two hour

911
00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:54,239
quick bike ride. Yeah that's not
a bike ride. Yeah, like I

912
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:59,119
just two hours. Like I think
they drop a couple of lines of like,

913
00:54:59,199 --> 00:55:01,760
yeah, Fiscus control some stuff here. It's like why is he like

914
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,000
what what does he care about Oklahoma? And that's what it's just like it

915
00:55:06,039 --> 00:55:09,480
felt weird that like supposedly right,
Like I'm guessing Kingpin put out a find

916
00:55:09,599 --> 00:55:14,000
mi right, like some sort of
bounty and it came back to Oklahoma,

917
00:55:14,039 --> 00:55:16,760
And I guess maybe you'd send it
there because that's where he thinks she's going,

918
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,159
So okay, but it just felt
like strange. Right away, we

919
00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:22,679
get this guy don't know much,
he's working like a bowling skate alley and

920
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:24,639
he's, oh, yeah, I
heard this, bounties on her and stuff.

921
00:55:24,679 --> 00:55:28,679
It's just and even then like nothing
happened. She gets away from the

922
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:30,159
Russian guy gets away from No.
I mean, the ending of that whole

923
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,679
sequence is so anticlimactic. They just
get up and walk away and leave her

924
00:55:35,719 --> 00:55:38,480
there. And honestly, I didn't
like. I could see that on paper

925
00:55:38,519 --> 00:55:43,440
there's maybe good choreography, but I
did not like that setting and to me

926
00:55:43,519 --> 00:55:46,039
didn't fit the style of what the
show should be. It felt too kiddy

927
00:55:46,039 --> 00:55:51,159
where they're like in the laser tag
part, like it's very goofy. They're

928
00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:52,920
like smashing each other into like the
claw machines and whatnot. It just felt

929
00:55:53,159 --> 00:55:58,480
a bit too set pc It didn't
feel very realistic. And then yeah,

930
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,719
I had that just like climactic ending. So it was like, why did

931
00:56:01,719 --> 00:56:05,400
we do any of this, because
I feel like maybe the purpose of that

932
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,639
from a character respected for Echo is
to help latch her back on her friend

933
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:12,679
who she hasn't seen until this moment, but I didn't really feel like we

934
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:14,400
got a whole lot of that.
And then even by the end of the

935
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,639
season that was I was really disappointed
by that friendship because even you know,

936
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:21,320
especially in episode one when they have
the flashback of young Maya and she obviously

937
00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,079
has this really close connection with her
is her cousin, right, and then

938
00:56:24,119 --> 00:56:28,000
by the end of the series,
I like they kind of had a comeby,

939
00:56:28,039 --> 00:56:30,199
but that kind of felt like something
that would maybe be like the first

940
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,960
half of the show and then their
friends again, or if you know that

941
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:36,519
there's a season two coming then that
you would expand that friendship there. But

942
00:56:36,519 --> 00:56:39,440
it's like this was the whole art, the whole idea with this character didn't

943
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,000
really work for me or ad much. And that's what, once again,

944
00:56:43,119 --> 00:56:45,679
the whole impetus of episode three is, which is why that episode is such

945
00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:49,880
a weak week one of a bunch
for me, and like what happens is

946
00:56:50,199 --> 00:56:52,440
like who is the guy technically the
guy that does when he signs, he

947
00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:54,719
speaks a lot. Who is he
is? He just like a family friend,

948
00:56:54,880 --> 00:57:00,360
like another he felt like, isn't
it no? No? The younger

949
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:06,559
guy say, oh yeah, who
just pulls out a silence pistol in the

950
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,440
crowd of the finale. Okay,
so the uncle. So this is all

951
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:13,000
happening, right, and they're getting
taken down and stuff, and they're in

952
00:57:13,079 --> 00:57:15,920
the skate thing and we established,
okay, she was friends with this person,

953
00:57:16,039 --> 00:57:19,480
like whatever, the cousin. They've
broke apart, they haven't talked,

954
00:57:19,960 --> 00:57:22,519
and then it's kind of like by
I think a few times it's like,

955
00:57:22,559 --> 00:57:23,280
oh, don't tell her, I'm
back in town. So that's so cool.

956
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,639
That's why we've seen that storyline before. I'm waiting for the progress.

957
00:57:27,039 --> 00:57:29,800
And then they finally meet back up
when this is all going down the skate

958
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,719
park. Their uncle, whoever,
this guy that they at least like have

959
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:37,559
a connection to, he is in
the other room bound gay could be killed

960
00:57:37,559 --> 00:57:39,719
at any second, And what does
this girl do? Why don't you text

961
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:44,320
me? Why do you call me? This is the time your uncle,

962
00:57:44,440 --> 00:57:46,440
someone you love, might get killed. And this is a scene we're gonna

963
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,320
do the whole trope of I text
you my father passed away. You weren't

964
00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:54,039
there, like what? I hated
that, And that's where it just felt

965
00:57:54,119 --> 00:57:59,159
like something was chopped or it just
does not make sense for a character that

966
00:57:59,320 --> 00:58:02,480
someone's life his in bounce, and
you're gonna be asking why didn't you answer

967
00:58:02,559 --> 00:58:07,440
my text? Like just put that
somewhere else. So one that was a

968
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:09,320
pointless storyline because they just like literally
like, oh, you know this stroke,

969
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,519
We're not even gonna show it.
And then when they did give us

970
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:15,480
stuff, it didn't make sense.
I instantly did not like this character who

971
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:19,159
someone's life is at risk, but
she's so selfish to be like, why

972
00:58:19,199 --> 00:58:22,400
didn't you email me back on the
fifth like man, like your uncle's about

973
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:24,039
to get his slip fucking throat,
Like let's talk about this later. It

974
00:58:24,159 --> 00:58:37,079
was just it was so, yeah, I heard throat. That sounds bad.

975
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:42,239
I'm gonna slit. Throw the slit. Let's let's take an ad break.

976
00:58:42,239 --> 00:58:44,679
And then Taylor because I I hear
him chomping over there, So were

977
00:58:44,719 --> 00:58:49,000
rich and we're right back, all
right, Taylor throw her slid, you

978
00:58:49,079 --> 00:58:54,559
know, circle back to So One
has sibling that oh that one you're circling

979
00:58:54,599 --> 00:58:58,360
back to. Okay, Yeah,
the one off guy with his two lady

980
00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:01,599
friend goons. Hated that out the
wazz. That was horrible. The one

981
00:59:01,639 --> 00:59:06,760
scene where the girl was like while
echoes in the room and then the girl

982
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:14,480
was watching like the interrogation like holding
people hostage video is so fucking like nuts

983
00:59:14,719 --> 00:59:16,920
not acting on that person too,
Yeah, I just I was not driving

984
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:20,599
with it. The thing that got
me was, Okay, they tied echo

985
00:59:20,679 --> 00:59:22,639
up, they left her in the
room, totally fair. When they came

986
00:59:22,719 --> 00:59:27,679
back and she was not tied up
anymore. They didn't bother to retire her.

987
00:59:27,719 --> 00:59:30,159
They just closed the door and let
her walk around. They were scared

988
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:31,880
of her, weren't they. And
then like the whole idea is they can't

989
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:36,039
but they had a gun. Well
still, but they had a gun on

990
00:59:36,079 --> 00:59:37,400
her. They could have like knocked
her out or tied her back up,

991
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:40,639
but no, they left her in
the room with the inspector gadget gizmos right,

992
00:59:40,679 --> 00:59:45,880
Like it's just crazy. It was
interesting she just told them or yeah,

993
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:49,519
like they just told her that they
can't kill her. But also she

994
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:52,840
wouldn't have heard that, so whenever, mine my point is invalid. Echo

995
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,760
kind of had her her Peter Ironman
moment where she just was left in the

996
00:59:55,800 --> 01:00:00,679
room with some tech and just making
a gun, which I was because that's

997
01:00:00,719 --> 01:00:02,599
not really something we saw from her
for the rest of the series, Like

998
01:00:02,719 --> 01:00:07,159
that's not really character trait of hers
or how you would say. That's like

999
01:00:07,199 --> 01:00:10,079
part and superpower for Spider Man is
that he's like a super genius. So

1000
01:00:10,559 --> 01:00:13,679
it was interesting that I was in
there, but it didn't really feel like

1001
01:00:13,679 --> 01:00:16,320
a through line. That's kind of
something that feels like each episode is written

1002
01:00:16,320 --> 01:00:20,400
by a different person, which I
don't. I didn't actually look at how

1003
01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,960
many different writers we had for this. Uh, this one shows I think

1004
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:29,280
there's a couple. Yeah. One
thing I wanted to circle back to because

1005
01:00:29,280 --> 01:00:34,079
we we didn't we talked about but
didn't talk about it the Powers. How

1006
01:00:34,079 --> 01:00:38,440
did you guys feel about the powers? So I kind of like them.

1007
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,760
We'll go ahead, please, I
said, I did not like them.

1008
01:00:40,639 --> 01:00:45,239
I want to hear a positive I
heard what Dane heard first, same thing

1009
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:47,239
like, oh no, he said, did not okay, but I heard

1010
01:00:47,320 --> 01:00:52,880
kind of like him. I I
feel like I was waiting for like because

1011
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:54,760
I really don't know anything about Echo
I don't have her Marvel snap card,

1012
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:59,239
I have an experience in the comic
books. I don't know anything about her.

1013
01:00:59,239 --> 01:01:00,960
I'm assuming that at some point she
has some sort of I mean in

1014
01:01:00,960 --> 01:01:04,400
the show, because they know they've
changed her power. She doesn't have those.

1015
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,199
Yeah, I think they've made these
very I kind of assumed it was

1016
01:01:08,239 --> 01:01:12,880
gonna be a Daredevil situation that she
has a power that like just helps her

1017
01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:17,239
fight crime or you know, Daredevil
can't see see thing, but some sort

1018
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:22,280
of thing. So I was excited
to at least get that origin of the

1019
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,079
character and and find out like her
Peter Parker bitten by the Spider moment,

1020
01:01:25,159 --> 01:01:28,519
like I was excited for that.
But I did not. I did.

1021
01:01:28,719 --> 01:01:30,199
I did not like the way that
it was that was done there. So

1022
01:01:30,639 --> 01:01:34,320
her comics. So there's two versions. One we're not going to talk about

1023
01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:37,599
as the Phoenix Force because funck off, like we know what the Phoenix Force

1024
01:01:37,679 --> 01:01:40,960
is gonna give her the Billy she
has just as both comics expert martial art

1025
01:01:42,119 --> 01:01:49,119
artists hand had hand hand combat a
highly skilled acrobat and athlete photographic reflexes and

1026
01:01:49,199 --> 01:01:52,239
that probably doesn't have an enhanced stamina. I was waiting for that one.

1027
01:01:52,320 --> 01:01:57,440
Yeah, and I just wish,
especially this is supposed to This is what

1028
01:01:57,519 --> 01:01:59,840
I hate when like, oh,
we're gonna do street level stuff. It's

1029
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,440
good be dark, it's gonna be
gritty. You got the space well for

1030
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:06,440
stuff if you just want criminal guys
fighting other heroes. This is a show.

1031
01:02:06,480 --> 01:02:08,960
And then you have Echo just like
tapping through the fucking force Ghost to

1032
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:13,360
be like shiny hands, and just
like I wish they just kept her a

1033
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:15,199
badass. Yeah, it's one of
those things where it's like, Okay,

1034
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,639
first, I feel like she didn't
really like this is an origin. There's

1035
01:02:19,639 --> 01:02:21,679
a lot of origin here, but
the origin is not for the powers like

1036
01:02:21,719 --> 01:02:24,000
a lot of superhero origin things are. So it felt like a bit much

1037
01:02:24,039 --> 01:02:29,400
that she could instantly put Kingpin into
his like childhood mind. I felt like,

1038
01:02:29,639 --> 01:02:31,360
very impressive that you could do this
for the power. Like you said,

1039
01:02:31,559 --> 01:02:35,400
that's not even the story. It's
not like I felt something in Hawkey

1040
01:02:35,440 --> 01:02:37,519
I'm coming back Home, because that's
like the revelation in season five. That's

1041
01:02:37,519 --> 01:02:42,000
like, once she's gone through her
character development, the reward is being given

1042
01:02:42,079 --> 01:02:44,760
to power, but then it feels
cheapen because, as you mentioned earlier,

1043
01:02:45,159 --> 01:02:46,159
like the whole family just gets the
power at that point, but she's the

1044
01:02:46,199 --> 01:02:50,320
only one that actually had to do
the work. She was grinding and they

1045
01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,000
were all just backpack and then they
all just get this get this power too.

1046
01:02:52,039 --> 01:02:57,400
It just felt like shared. It's
like shokemon these days. Even the

1047
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,639
power. It's like you do a
side quest. The characters just like,

1048
01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:01,320
oh, this hat's good, but
I don't want and well here you go,

1049
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,880
and you're like the story wasn't about
getting this happened like, oh I

1050
01:03:04,960 --> 01:03:07,639
like having this hat, Like it's
such a because episode four is like randomly

1051
01:03:07,679 --> 01:03:12,159
all about the power. It's all
about it and the Grandma good actress.

1052
01:03:12,159 --> 01:03:14,559
I like the scene and the hole
back and forth, but it's just all

1053
01:03:14,599 --> 01:03:16,199
about like, oh, by the
way, you also got superpowers, Like

1054
01:03:16,679 --> 01:03:22,480
yeah, what Yeah? So I
take it that there's like a healing element

1055
01:03:22,519 --> 01:03:25,559
to this ability to plus like the
memory stuff, and then maybe just like

1056
01:03:25,679 --> 01:03:29,679
it gives you like an iron fist, like an enhanced strength sort of thing,

1057
01:03:29,800 --> 01:03:31,559
because otherwise how would that Grandma be, you know, throwing down like

1058
01:03:31,639 --> 01:03:35,719
off she's looking for the matrix and
the thing. But and so this is

1059
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:40,599
maybe slightly outside the powers, but
I I really did like the idea of

1060
01:03:43,559 --> 01:03:45,039
because even the name echo right,
like going into this, I don't really

1061
01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:47,519
know, like no one really calls
her that, like why why is that

1062
01:03:47,639 --> 01:03:53,119
her name? And I really like
the idea that it's like her ancestors echoing

1063
01:03:53,159 --> 01:03:55,519
through these generations. I think that's
a really cool idea. I think some

1064
01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:59,039
of the visual stuff for it didn't
work so much for me, some of

1065
01:03:59,039 --> 01:04:01,760
the flashbacks where you have the cave
one and I think that actually looks kind

1066
01:04:01,760 --> 01:04:04,440
of cool, with the exception of
like the water. I kind of like

1067
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:08,280
the visuals of that, But then
like every time we see a flashback of

1068
01:04:08,280 --> 01:04:12,320
that, it's just like these ten
people walking very slowly with like some trees

1069
01:04:12,320 --> 01:04:15,360
in the background, and that's like
all it is, and it's just a

1070
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:16,320
little bit weak, and then they're
all kind of like that, they're all

1071
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:19,199
very surface level. But I still
quite like the idea of that, And

1072
01:04:19,199 --> 01:04:25,440
like when the grandma says that line
of the ancestors like echoing through the generations,

1073
01:04:25,480 --> 01:04:27,880
I think that was really cool and
that makes that like sets up the

1074
01:04:27,960 --> 01:04:30,719
name in a good way. That
doesn't really connect to the powers so much,

1075
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:33,440
but I like, at least that's
that part of it. In terms

1076
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:38,400
of the naming and the theming of
it, I think is actually pretty neat,

1077
01:04:38,519 --> 01:04:40,480
So that would be like my positive
on it. But in terms of

1078
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,400
the powers themselves, I don't really
understand them. It's kind of like,

1079
01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:46,719
for the first couple episodes of Miss
Marvels, what exactly are these powers doing?

1080
01:04:46,760 --> 01:04:49,440
I don't really understand, And now
I have an idea how this hard

1081
01:04:49,519 --> 01:04:53,079
light works, but yeah, I
don't. I just don't get it.

1082
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:56,119
It's a bit it seems a bit
too ambiguous where they can kind of make

1083
01:04:56,159 --> 01:04:58,719
it whatever they want to be,
or whoever is writing the next project that

1084
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:00,440
has echo in it, they can
just like you know, put their spin

1085
01:05:00,519 --> 01:05:02,400
on it what they want the powers
to do. And I don't really like

1086
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,199
that so much. I like it
to be more factual, I guess,

1087
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:10,599
but I do want something maybe more
interesting than just you know, acrobatic skill

1088
01:05:10,679 --> 01:05:13,239
like you mentioned there off her Wikipedia
page, where it doesn't seem like she

1089
01:05:13,239 --> 01:05:16,400
actually really has any powers normally,
so photographic though, that would have been

1090
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:21,159
great. It was like photographic memory. It wasn't memory though, or it

1091
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:27,239
was like photographic reflexes. So I
think it's like that sounds very similar to

1092
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:30,559
what like task Masters are supposed to
be almost like it's like she could watch

1093
01:05:30,599 --> 01:05:33,440
you and know, Okay, Matt's
gonna do this, And like I wish

1094
01:05:33,639 --> 01:05:38,119
even if they did that of like
especially when they kill the sound because of

1095
01:05:38,159 --> 01:05:41,679
her lack of hearing you if they
just did, like things kind of slowed

1096
01:05:41,719 --> 01:05:44,679
down in a set. It's not
like Quicksilver but Jack Holmes man, yes,

1097
01:05:44,960 --> 01:05:47,480
same thing. Just do just hiden. I don't care hidened senses because

1098
01:05:47,480 --> 01:05:50,960
that's the problem with when you get
these hand glowing powers. The heroes that

1099
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:55,079
have these ambiguous powers, they just
never catch on because like you know what

1100
01:05:55,159 --> 01:05:58,119
hallt does. You know what Superman
is? You know, even though what

1101
01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:00,119
cap is right like the peak of
human into like Iron Man, he's a

1102
01:06:00,119 --> 01:06:02,840
got in the suit. It's like, what's Echo's powers? Oh well,

1103
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:06,119
her hands light up, she can
heal birds? Uh, And like why

1104
01:06:06,280 --> 01:06:10,159
isn't her family a part of the
Defenders now? You know? Like they

1105
01:06:10,559 --> 01:06:14,719
they just they kicked those ass like
they kicked all their ass, like it

1106
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,960
just yeah, yeah, yeah,
oh go ahead, go ahead. I

1107
01:06:18,000 --> 01:06:20,559
was just gonna say, when Fisk
is running for may or, someone's gonna

1108
01:06:20,559 --> 01:06:24,679
get a video of that event that
happened It's like, do you really want

1109
01:06:24,679 --> 01:06:27,639
this guy running for you? You
got his ass handed to him by these

1110
01:06:27,639 --> 01:06:31,960
three girls. Is this the brawler
you're wanting? New work? There'll be

1111
01:06:32,000 --> 01:06:34,840
an ad for the Gramma. Now
she moves from Oklahoma to New York and

1112
01:06:34,880 --> 01:06:40,119
she's running from me Mayor. Yeah, she's a bigger deal than Echo.

1113
01:06:40,519 --> 01:06:45,440
Yeah. The h the powers definitely, like as I said I alluded to

1114
01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:48,880
earlier, Like I just I don't
know that the causality and just what's what

1115
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,800
limitations there really are for them,
because at this point, all I can

1116
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:56,599
really deduce is, yeah, they
heal birds that she hurts intentionally, and

1117
01:06:57,079 --> 01:07:01,519
they can super strength and why not
The thing though, when she finally channeled

1118
01:07:01,519 --> 01:07:04,639
her powers, I'm gonna pull this
up because this is what it's like a

1119
01:07:04,679 --> 01:07:12,280
carbon copy of from Assassin's Creed when
all the ancestors just pop up and then

1120
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:15,840
that's that's their like their their moments. So I thought, holy shit,

1121
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,599
this is this is the exact equivalent
is the very that's the movie? Yeah?

1122
01:07:19,599 --> 01:07:24,000
Oh yeah, they didn't do it
through like I guess yours and more

1123
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:26,719
Ancestor, but I fact they almost
did then Rise of Skywalker too, right,

1124
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,320
like all the force ghosts are going
through raid or power up, and

1125
01:07:29,360 --> 01:07:33,320
that's what this is doing. It's
just like and even like those two examples

1126
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:36,599
we gave aren't even that earned.
And this was even to me just lesser

1127
01:07:36,639 --> 01:07:40,679
and that she just because it's just
again she's just like learns about this power

1128
01:07:40,679 --> 01:07:43,960
and it's it's hers now, you
know. I I really wish they didn't

1129
01:07:44,000 --> 01:07:49,320
even do the power honestly. I
I wish that they kept like without getting

1130
01:07:49,480 --> 01:07:56,000
giving her superpowers, like keeping like
that echo connection to her ancestors. And

1131
01:07:56,079 --> 01:08:00,960
I really wish they just introduced this
like borderline myth alag cold type idea,

1132
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:03,480
but like didn't stray over the line
that like gave her superpowers. It's just

1133
01:08:03,679 --> 01:08:06,800
it's almost like a like a belief
thing, like oh, like is she

1134
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:12,559
actually getting is is the bird there
like really messaging like to to whoever?

1135
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:15,599
Or is that just like a thing
And it could be written kind of either

1136
01:08:15,599 --> 01:08:17,920
way. I really wish they went
more that direction, because we already have

1137
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:24,000
so many superpowers and or yeah,
supers in the MCU that have superpowers that

1138
01:08:24,039 --> 01:08:27,399
I think are more relevant in this
and this doesn't really boost her character that

1139
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:30,359
much. She's not gonna be destroying
whoever the next big bad is with her

1140
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:35,880
with her healing powers or her just
pulsing powers or summoning Grandma to kick ass,

1141
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:39,800
like I really wish you. It
was almost just like a Black Widow

1142
01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:43,199
thing, like I'm totally fine with
just see like that train sequence. I

1143
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:45,760
love that moment when she when she
gets like on the Bungie cord, she's

1144
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,319
in her like tag gear and just
like repels down, Like I I'm totally

1145
01:08:48,359 --> 01:08:53,439
fine. It's just that's her type
of character because we don't really have like

1146
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:56,960
we're starting to lose some of those
guys right like like Hawkeye's on his way

1147
01:08:56,960 --> 01:09:00,840
out, Black Widow's gone. Like
I guess we got Yolena and uh okay,

1148
01:09:00,159 --> 01:09:02,279
I guess we get Kate Bishop.
But come on, let's let's just

1149
01:09:02,359 --> 01:09:05,560
keep getting more. Some of the
other agents are gone now. So I

1150
01:09:05,399 --> 01:09:10,720
I think it's fine to have that
balance of non super characters in the MCU,

1151
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:13,399
and especially if it's the street level
stuff too. That's what they talk

1152
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:15,319
about, like, Oh, we're
gonna we're gonna do a bunch of it.

1153
01:09:15,359 --> 01:09:20,119
We're gonna like the team, that's
of course, and then yeah,

1154
01:09:20,239 --> 01:09:24,680
but like there's no Claire like there
was in Marvel Netflix. Yeah, exactly,

1155
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:28,720
Like and that's where because like with
Kingpin getting in the Mayor storyline,

1156
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:30,800
it sounds like they're are going to
do Devil's Reign and it is about king

1157
01:09:30,800 --> 01:09:33,600
Fin taking over New York. But
again, it's just like, especially with

1158
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,319
this Kingpin, he's already weak enough. We don't even going against people that

1159
01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:41,479
have superpowers. You know, it's
like he's like like fuck man, like

1160
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:45,600
he I don't know if I was
him day one, you gotta kill Echo.

1161
01:09:45,640 --> 01:09:48,279
Where she's like taking it down twice, that has been numero uno.

1162
01:09:48,439 --> 01:09:53,199
But did you get the vibe that
she was gonna go back to New York

1163
01:09:53,239 --> 01:09:55,640
at the end of the show,
Because I didn't. She walked in around

1164
01:09:55,720 --> 01:10:00,359
the backyard like Treto's family. That's
exactly I was gonna say. Yeah,

1165
01:10:00,359 --> 01:10:02,760
it's like the end of Fast.
Yeah. So I think she's I feel

1166
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:05,399
like she's it's only a short twenty
two hour drive, Taylor. I mean

1167
01:10:05,439 --> 01:10:10,880
she can quickly have two hours twenty
twenty two hour drive. That's what I

1168
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:14,840
said my car. So when she
was bleeding out two hours twenty two hours,

1169
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:17,600
she was bleeding out like basically gonna
die. In the next two hours,

1170
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,560
she drove twenty two hours on her
motorbike without sleeping. Oh my god,

1171
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:27,119
what is a town that is a
day away? What is he like?

1172
01:10:27,199 --> 01:10:30,520
What is he doing down there?
Well, to him, it's probably,

1173
01:10:30,680 --> 01:10:32,319
you know, twenty minutes on his
private jet. That's true. Yeah,

1174
01:10:32,359 --> 01:10:38,039
Eleanor he needs Maya now, yeah, these ladies they need to get

1175
01:10:38,079 --> 01:10:43,840
his wife and then he'll like have
somebody. But the way you say maya

1176
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:45,760
is sounds exactly like the way you
say Gya Taylor. It's perfect. I

1177
01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:56,560
just can mayan guy a teaming up
Defenders too. It's bottle. Yeah,

1178
01:10:56,880 --> 01:11:00,680
there's another fucking character. I think
she's going back to New York. I

1179
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,199
think she's just stopping to say hi, and then she's gonna go back.

1180
01:11:03,600 --> 01:11:08,319
I think to take him down,
even though she could just fucking because it's

1181
01:11:08,359 --> 01:11:11,840
so there's no other character is gonna
come to Oklahoma. So if she wants

1182
01:11:11,920 --> 01:11:14,760
to exist in the future, she's
gonna have to go to New York and

1183
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:17,640
there's gonna be a lot happening there
in the next Uh. I hope they

1184
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,840
set Spiderman in Oklahoma because there's no
fucking buildings for to swim off there,

1185
01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,600
it's like what do I do,
Like, how do I move her?

1186
01:11:24,760 --> 01:11:30,199
No way Oklahoma? Then the whole
trilogy is something Oklahoma and the yeah,

1187
01:11:30,279 --> 01:11:36,760
exactly, it's perfect. Fuck,
that's gonna go somewhere. But uh,

1188
01:11:36,760 --> 01:11:40,520
it was about her going back to
oh like again. But I don't even

1189
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:44,000
know what her goal is because like
here's the thing, right, because there

1190
01:11:44,159 --> 01:11:47,960
there is a season that may or
may not tinker with. Hey, Daredevil

1191
01:11:48,479 --> 01:11:51,439
is giving the idea of what if
you just kill Kingpin And that's the idea

1192
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,159
of like that could solve the re
answers, right, And there's the back

1193
01:11:55,199 --> 01:11:57,640
and forth and then there's eventually no, I don't do it because I'm the

1194
01:11:57,640 --> 01:12:00,239
hero and you get there. We
didn't get that with my y. So

1195
01:12:00,239 --> 01:12:01,279
I just want to ask you,
is like, why didn't she kill Fisk

1196
01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,119
just because she saw him as a
child, went, oh, he had

1197
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:08,199
a tough he had a tough go
as a kid. I think it's the

1198
01:12:08,199 --> 01:12:12,760
pretty classic thing of just with her
character development and her trying to be a

1199
01:12:12,760 --> 01:12:16,239
better person, and you know,
we have these flashbacks off she accidentally killed

1200
01:12:16,279 --> 01:12:20,439
this bird or she almost killed this
bird as a child. Her mom has

1201
01:12:20,439 --> 01:12:25,479
the healing powers and heals this bird. But yeah, I think she's just

1202
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:30,319
trying to turn a new leaf and
stop killing people, trying to change her

1203
01:12:30,319 --> 01:12:31,840
ways a little bit. And then
I think there's also an element to it

1204
01:12:31,880 --> 01:12:36,800
where she shot Fisk in the head. She tried to kill him and he

1205
01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:40,920
didn't die from that, and I
feel like maybe to her that was a

1206
01:12:41,039 --> 01:12:45,760
sign to some extent that that was
not meant to happen, potentially something along

1207
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:50,720
those lines. So I just feel
like it's maybe not anything special. It's

1208
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:56,119
just that classic character development of her
not being the villain anymore, because you

1209
01:12:56,119 --> 01:12:58,840
know, that's technically how she started
in the MCU. It doesn't feel as

1210
01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:02,039
grand as the conversion of like Scarlet
Witch becoming a villain or not or Loki,

1211
01:13:02,119 --> 01:13:05,439
you know, turning into a good
guy, just because of time and

1212
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:11,279
attention to detail and care given to
these characters. Honestly, uh So,

1213
01:13:11,359 --> 01:13:14,760
yeah, that's kind of where I
see it. Se Yeah, I know

1214
01:13:14,800 --> 01:13:15,960
it's a simple story, but I
would have just loved even that was her

1215
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,840
story the whole season, about trying
to be better. I've killed I've heard

1216
01:13:18,840 --> 01:13:21,720
a lot of this in people.
I was on the wrong side. She

1217
01:13:21,760 --> 01:13:25,079
even says that, like I was
like, I thought, you weren't the

1218
01:13:25,159 --> 01:13:29,479
monster, and I wish it's something
we've seen before, but sometimes safe it's

1219
01:13:29,560 --> 01:13:32,039
just the route to go when it's
it's to this extent, you know,

1220
01:13:32,159 --> 01:13:38,880
I feel like they're they're poetically trying
to parallel the short sequence of when she

1221
01:13:39,000 --> 01:13:42,119
shot the bird and then all of
a sudden they go to the next where

1222
01:13:42,119 --> 01:13:44,680
she's with the mom and the mom
heals the bird. I feel like it's

1223
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:47,800
the same thing, just on this
grandular scale. She shot, she shot

1224
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,399
Kingpin, and then now now here
she is, she's he is trying to

1225
01:13:51,439 --> 01:13:55,279
heal Kingpin at the end, like
the same parallel. Yeah, maybe she

1226
01:13:55,319 --> 01:13:58,319
feels like she is gonna thick.
What is the order of those events?

1227
01:13:58,399 --> 01:14:00,680
So when does she do the mind
why? Relative to her walking away?

1228
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:04,560
I guess that must be not the
mind white. But when she turns him

1229
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:10,439
back to ten year old, that's
right after like before what after what sequence

1230
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:15,000
the burd what scene comes first?
We were walking away from killing him or

1231
01:14:15,079 --> 01:14:18,119
and the it goes young boy walk
away? That's what it goes, young

1232
01:14:18,159 --> 01:14:20,720
boy then walk away? Right,
So I guess, yeah, to Taylor's

1233
01:14:20,720 --> 01:14:26,439
point there, maybe she feels like
she maybe didn't cure him from being a

1234
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:30,399
bad guy, but at least says
we don't take life right. That's what

1235
01:14:30,439 --> 01:14:33,560
her mom told her. I guess
I was so worried. She was literally

1236
01:14:33,600 --> 01:14:38,800
just gonna like literally heal his mind
and he was gonna be a good guy.

1237
01:14:38,880 --> 01:14:40,960
I was like, oh my god, don't go down this road.

1238
01:14:40,960 --> 01:14:44,239
Professor X style. Yeah, I
just swear we better not show, like,

1239
01:14:44,319 --> 01:14:46,000
see you're throwing some guys off a
fucking building next time we see her,

1240
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:48,479
you know, because that's always the
thing they'll do. This Daredevil didn't

1241
01:14:48,479 --> 01:14:49,800
do that, but shows will do
that. We're like, oh, I

1242
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:54,079
can't kill the name guy. But
then like, oh good number two.

1243
01:14:54,119 --> 01:14:56,520
Oh yeah, I fucking snapped his
neck in front of a crowd of people

1244
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,239
and they cheered, you know,
like, maya better not kill a single

1245
01:14:59,279 --> 01:15:01,800
soul from here on out. Then
if she left Kingpin, Kingpin of all

1246
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,439
people alive to go back to New
York or Oklahoma, who knows. Maybe

1247
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:08,800
he's gonna run from air there too, and maybe I don't know what the

1248
01:15:08,840 --> 01:15:12,479
law is. But and it's like
that thing again that I guarantee he's gonna

1249
01:15:12,520 --> 01:15:15,840
be killing a lot of people directly
or through his orders. And now this

1250
01:15:15,000 --> 01:15:19,199
completely comes back to Maya not not
just ending them right there, like like

1251
01:15:19,279 --> 01:15:24,359
she could have saved all those people's
Yeah yeah, and I just wish that,

1252
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,960
Like I know it sounds bad,
but we talk about Fisk, I

1253
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,359
just wish he killed one of those
family members off. You know, none

1254
01:15:29,399 --> 01:15:32,359
of them were that developed, Like
who was the same what was it the

1255
01:15:32,399 --> 01:15:40,560
fucking tater tots or biscuits? The
same biscuits? Yeah? Kill throw out

1256
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,159
his slit like kill, Like,
I just wish he killed one of them

1257
01:15:44,199 --> 01:15:45,880
in front of my st to really
show like hey, like you should have

1258
01:15:45,960 --> 01:15:49,840
fucking turned out even then, Like
I just love like Kingpin his whole like

1259
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:53,720
nightis I'm just gonna sit on this
plane and wait and hope that Maya show

1260
01:15:53,840 --> 01:15:56,520
up. Like I'm just gonna sit
here, just hang out just for a

1261
01:15:56,520 --> 01:15:59,720
couple of hours. I'm not doing
anything, just hope hopefully she comes around.

1262
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:01,560
And you know it doesn't. Well, he kept baiting it right because

1263
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:03,840
first he was like, I'm gonna
be at the hotel, you know,

1264
01:16:03,960 --> 01:16:06,560
meet me there. He sits around
the ways. Okay, now you came

1265
01:16:06,600 --> 01:16:10,000
to the hotel. I'm gonna be
at the plane, you know, meet

1266
01:16:10,039 --> 01:16:15,319
me there, like he did have
that guy that was the Mafia is kind

1267
01:16:15,359 --> 01:16:17,960
of sour guy who's on top of
the r V just with that phone on

1268
01:16:18,079 --> 01:16:23,119
RPG that that was. That was
a little cringe, just because yeah,

1269
01:16:23,920 --> 01:16:28,760
so cracked shut it up into the
sky and like he's like got his hand

1270
01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:30,960
on the trigger and then he's like, wait a minute, what's that the

1271
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,039
pistol? It was like oops,
or does this in one line? And

1272
01:16:34,079 --> 01:16:36,640
like he's out in the open.
No one's gonna walk by and be like,

1273
01:16:36,680 --> 01:16:40,760
why is that? I got a
fucking RPG out for like got some

1274
01:16:40,880 --> 01:16:45,880
fireworks tonight people. It just felt
very like I did like the scene prior

1275
01:16:45,000 --> 01:16:47,920
that though, when he's like driving
up to the parking lot and the guy's

1276
01:16:47,920 --> 01:16:50,680
like, oh, you like need
a pass to drive through. He's like

1277
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:54,600
yeah, okay, and then they'd
have like that back and forth a couple

1278
01:16:54,600 --> 01:16:58,079
times and he just drives away,
like you just reminded me, Dylan.

1279
01:16:58,199 --> 01:17:01,319
Fuck, this was so cringe.
His biscuits they're asking the uncle was asking

1280
01:17:01,319 --> 01:17:03,880
Biscuits do you have a weapon,
and Biscus like, oh, I got

1281
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:08,840
something, and he drives his monster
truck over the two vans full of bews

1282
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,800
inside. Fuck you should have sent
him aster a fisk. He would have

1283
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:18,079
taken Fisco biscuits, true biscuits too. If he's in the bloodline, he

1284
01:17:18,159 --> 01:17:21,119
must it must be like a fucking
black panther will kind of thing where all

1285
01:17:21,119 --> 01:17:26,479
these people can light up their hands. He's a cousin, right, He's

1286
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:30,079
Bonnie's brother. So I just hope
that moved. I hope that doesn't happen

1287
01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:32,880
to him, just because, like
imagine she's fighting crime, she's powering up,

1288
01:17:32,880 --> 01:17:36,199
and he's just somewhere like like having
a good time with himself and his

1289
01:17:36,279 --> 01:17:40,640
hands are just fucking lighting up,
you know, Like I don't think it's

1290
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,479
well. I'm just saying, like
gonna be inconvenient. Sometimes your lights just

1291
01:17:44,479 --> 01:17:51,079
gonna be the best last bust of
your life. Entire lower half to heal

1292
01:17:51,159 --> 01:18:00,520
himself too, Yeah, me full
Daredevil? Should we tell abut dared Em

1293
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:03,880
Murdoch for where he was? So
my prediction was fucking off. When I

1294
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:06,640
say three two, I think we
also had three episodes, right, I

1295
01:18:06,680 --> 01:18:11,199
said, Travis, Yeah, And
I was still wrong about I still wrong.

1296
01:18:11,840 --> 01:18:15,520
Yeah, Yeah, I thought it
was cappen it. I like I

1297
01:18:15,520 --> 01:18:18,760
was gonna say, I like the
scene, it almost felt like Batman like

1298
01:18:18,840 --> 01:18:21,840
popping in out of nowhere, especially
from her perspective. I really like the

1299
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:26,199
way that that overall scene was just
shot because it's as if it's like her

1300
01:18:26,239 --> 01:18:29,600
first time like dealing with that sort
of thing. She's just kind of standing

1301
01:18:29,600 --> 01:18:32,560
there and then she like just seeing
the chaos and then she ends up jumping

1302
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,760
in to help out her her comrades. And then yeah, there's this like

1303
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:41,000
not a Cape crusader, but this
fucking man with horns horn. It just

1304
01:18:41,039 --> 01:18:44,279
pops in throws I don't even know. It's like a Ninja star type thing.

1305
01:18:44,319 --> 01:18:45,920
Takes out two of them and just
his movements. And I really liked

1306
01:18:45,920 --> 01:18:49,479
the fight choreography actually of that scene
when they're when they're duking it out and

1307
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,880
she kept trying to go for the
gun and he just kept like one upping

1308
01:18:51,960 --> 01:18:56,800
her and doing flips around. So
that was that was fantastic, especially that

1309
01:18:56,840 --> 01:18:59,319
it was the red suit that was
just that was so awesome. I was

1310
01:18:59,399 --> 01:19:03,279
really really big in that. Much
better the reds much much better. Yeah,

1311
01:19:03,359 --> 01:19:09,000
No, I thought that was a
fantastic fight scene that was really really

1312
01:19:09,039 --> 01:19:14,039
fun. I think the camera was
just moving around like crazy and following it

1313
01:19:14,039 --> 01:19:16,079
in a really fun way. Just
obviously we saw some of it in the

1314
01:19:16,079 --> 01:19:18,119
trailer, but I think, you
know, it's not part of her power

1315
01:19:18,119 --> 01:19:23,520
set necessarily, but like the brutality
of the metal leg when she wants to

1316
01:19:23,520 --> 01:19:27,079
throw down with it, just kicking
chairs across the room into people's heads is

1317
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:30,520
great. You know, like Kirk
when you mentioned earlier, how sometimes you'll

1318
01:19:30,600 --> 01:19:33,680
kind of get more from her perspective
and will kind of deafen out the sounds

1319
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,920
and you have that moment where it
even slows down and then you just hear

1320
01:19:36,920 --> 01:19:42,159
the neck crack like that was really
really great, really beautiful visceral, and

1321
01:19:42,159 --> 01:19:45,079
then you have the daredevil stuff like
he's in there for you know, one

1322
01:19:45,159 --> 01:19:49,760
minute minute there you go. But
the best one minute fifty nine seconds of

1323
01:19:50,079 --> 01:19:54,000
the season, I don't know.
It was a really really fun fights and

1324
01:19:54,000 --> 01:19:56,840
you could tell they were maybe trying
to do a little bit of the Hallways

1325
01:19:57,159 --> 01:19:59,800
fight scene sort of stuff where they've
tried to how longer continue a shot you

1326
01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,000
can see where they obviously not as
smooth. Yeah, it was clearly not

1327
01:20:02,079 --> 01:20:05,000
as It's not as smooth as like
bird Man or something where it's like where

1328
01:20:05,039 --> 01:20:08,760
where are the cuts. When do
they do that? But yeah, just

1329
01:20:08,840 --> 01:20:13,039
really really fun fight scene all around, and honestly, it set a tone

1330
01:20:13,079 --> 01:20:15,600
that was not delivered on for us
this season, which is maybe something too.

1331
01:20:15,640 --> 01:20:18,760
And I mean, I just feel
like even across the marketing the trailers

1332
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:21,359
like that, I did not really
get the show that I thought I was

1333
01:20:21,359 --> 01:20:26,800
gonna get here. Yeah, and
like just like that spine crack scene when

1334
01:20:26,880 --> 01:20:29,520
she kills that guy, they did
like a big emphasis of like you could

1335
01:20:29,520 --> 01:20:30,680
hear two heart beats and then all
of a sudden, you hear one heart

1336
01:20:30,720 --> 01:20:34,119
beat. And I don't know like
exactly what a deaf person can hear or

1337
01:20:34,199 --> 01:20:36,720
not, but like I feel like
you can almost feel like that heartbeat like

1338
01:20:36,720 --> 01:20:40,720
in that moment, especially just your
own like pulsating just from the adrenaline and

1339
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:45,840
everything. So that's a really good
veritable connectivity. The idea of him sensing

1340
01:20:45,880 --> 01:20:47,039
heartbeats, that's cool. Well,
and they even did that, like I

1341
01:20:47,079 --> 01:20:50,000
think that that like people do do
that, because they also do that at

1342
01:20:50,000 --> 01:20:53,479
the end when the drums are going
and she can't hear the drums, but

1343
01:20:53,479 --> 01:20:56,159
she didn't feel the vibration of the
drums when she's in the pread, so

1344
01:20:56,199 --> 01:21:00,880
they kind of parody that not parody
that way, but like put them together

1345
01:21:00,960 --> 01:21:05,880
to show like there parallel thank you, like you can get certain just like

1346
01:21:06,439 --> 01:21:10,880
vibrations and rhythm from things right,
And that's what I liked, and that's

1347
01:21:10,880 --> 01:21:13,800
why I give him. I go
back to a simple story, but I

1348
01:21:13,880 --> 01:21:15,239
like when she broke his neck,
it wasn't just broke his neck and went

1349
01:21:15,279 --> 01:21:18,039
on. She took a couple of
beats because clearly you could see this is

1350
01:21:18,079 --> 01:21:21,239
the first person she's killed, and
she kind of registered that as like oh

1351
01:21:21,319 --> 01:21:24,359
fuck, Like I like, this
is a step. But then some guy

1352
01:21:24,399 --> 01:21:27,039
pulls a gun and that's okay,
you gotta snap and go. So that's

1353
01:21:27,039 --> 01:21:30,199
why I liked where It's like the
stages were set there were Okay, we

1354
01:21:30,239 --> 01:21:32,119
want to do that, but they
just did the first part of the story

1355
01:21:32,399 --> 01:21:35,399
and the last part of Oh she
regrets killing somebody and she's gonna stop.

1356
01:21:35,439 --> 01:21:39,560
There's just the middle stuff they just
left out. But it remind me a

1357
01:21:39,600 --> 01:21:42,399
lot of like one of the few
good things about the Suicide Squad movie the

1358
01:21:42,439 --> 01:21:45,359
original when they said, oh,
we want Batman to show up in this

1359
01:21:45,399 --> 01:21:47,920
movie, like you're from the goon's
perspective of you're just doing stuff and imagine

1360
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:50,199
just Batman shows up. And that's
what was cool here where they're just standing

1361
01:21:50,199 --> 01:21:53,880
around and all of a sudden,
Daredevil's baton just comes and smacks a guy,

1362
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:56,479
knocks them out, and you're just
like, oh my god. So

1363
01:21:56,600 --> 01:21:59,439
it was a great scene. There's
one CG I think I hate where it

1364
01:21:59,520 --> 01:22:01,279
must have been reshoot or something.
He like falls aground and he like jumps

1365
01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:04,279
up really quick. It's just a
full on CGI. Charlie Cox like it

1366
01:22:04,359 --> 01:22:09,039
just doesn't look right. And I
agree where even to me, the Daredevil

1367
01:22:09,119 --> 01:22:12,000
Netflix stuff to hide the one shot, I think they were much better at

1368
01:22:12,039 --> 01:22:14,640
their sons were just the wall.
It goes by like the wall for like

1369
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:17,359
five seconds. That's fine, it's
so cool. My only problem again is

1370
01:22:17,720 --> 01:22:20,760
I just didn't buy. At one
point, he knocks her down and Echo

1371
01:22:20,920 --> 01:22:26,439
looks back and he's gone. I
don't know why Daredevil wouldn't just finish her

1372
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:28,720
off, not kill her, but
just like, why did he leave the

1373
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:30,319
fight? She was down and she
got a shotgun. Sure, but it's

1374
01:22:30,319 --> 01:22:33,520
like it's Daredevil. He just took
out a room full of guys with guns

1375
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,239
and everything, so it's not like
everyone had knives and she had the one

1376
01:22:36,279 --> 01:22:39,520
gun and Matt was like, oh, fuck a gun. I've never dealt

1377
01:22:39,520 --> 01:22:41,760
with this, Like, wasn't the
job kind of done at that point though,

1378
01:22:42,039 --> 01:22:45,279
but why it like I met,
like, what was the job?

1379
01:22:45,319 --> 01:22:47,159
I just feel like it's the knock
out guys, right and criminals? Yeah

1380
01:22:47,199 --> 01:22:49,880
one all the guys knocked out,
but she's a criminal too, right,

1381
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,119
so it's like, knock her out
so the police can come get her too,

1382
01:22:53,119 --> 01:22:57,000
because I'm assuming these guys got busted
arrested. So it just felt very

1383
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,479
unhero like for a main hero'll be
like, I'm just gonna leave this one

1384
01:23:00,520 --> 01:23:03,720
goon down. It's just like,
I don't know, especially Matt Murdoch.

1385
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:08,039
He fucking like remember season one,
He's just getting into fights with everybody.

1386
01:23:08,039 --> 01:23:11,359
He's a messive for him just to
be like, she's got a shotgun,

1387
01:23:11,479 --> 01:23:14,239
I don't I don't know about this
again, it just felt like he's gone

1388
01:23:14,319 --> 01:23:16,439
through that development. That's not the
same guy anymore. You know he was

1389
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:20,359
having a one night stand with This
is a different Daredevil then back in the

1390
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:24,800
day. I don't know. I
think this is old. I think this

1391
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:29,520
is a pret shea Hall Daredevil because
they're red. I think that's what they're

1392
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:32,239
trying to show us is because remember
this is my but it's post Marvel Netflix,

1393
01:23:33,520 --> 01:23:36,760
right, is it post or in
during I don't know that's the thing,

1394
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:41,439
because it's definitely that's the that's a
flash once again, that's all the

1395
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,680
timing of yeah things, because it's
definitely before Hawkeye because right, she hasn't

1396
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:47,520
gotten her whole her own crew.
This is her first mission. So I

1397
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:51,720
think this is like in the middle
of well you never watch Darvel. He

1398
01:23:51,800 --> 01:23:56,119
just goes to random warehouse and like
messes up Echo incompany. Yeah, good

1399
01:23:56,159 --> 01:24:00,560
point, I underwear on the well. I don't even know where the hell

1400
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,119
would they put this on that official
timeline, because like there's just stuff like

1401
01:24:03,159 --> 01:24:05,079
what do they do for like eternals? Where do they put that on the

1402
01:24:05,079 --> 01:24:08,680
timeline? Did they just put that
first? Even though there's parts in present

1403
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:12,000
day? I think they put it
where the present day stuff happens because those

1404
01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:15,039
are flashbacks. So I think it
is after endgame, like in the time

1405
01:24:15,239 --> 01:24:18,560
like technically so I jumping all over
the place. Yeah, I think this

1406
01:24:18,560 --> 01:24:23,399
would easily just say it's season one
or something like that, and he just

1407
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:27,520
took down some warehouse once right that
had King pengoons and stuff. But again,

1408
01:24:27,560 --> 01:24:30,159
I really hope. I do think
there it's time for an upgrade,

1409
01:24:30,239 --> 01:24:32,840
like change the suit a little bit. I still like it, but I'm

1410
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:35,800
always still team Red. It still
just looks so much better than the the

1411
01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:39,399
yellow and red. For me,
I like just the greater feeling. It

1412
01:24:39,520 --> 01:24:42,680
was good, and I even like
what I liked is just even the few

1413
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,520
little quips that gave Cocks. He
just felt like a boss, like in

1414
01:24:45,560 --> 01:24:46,960
a boss fight where you're like,
fuck this, Like he keeps dropping these

1415
01:24:47,000 --> 01:24:49,880
one liners. Because like that's why
I did enjoy where I don't think he

1416
01:24:49,880 --> 01:24:53,119
should have left that go, Like
I feel like he could have still just

1417
01:24:53,159 --> 01:24:56,680
knocked Echo out and she escapes the
police very easy. I don't know why

1418
01:24:56,720 --> 01:24:59,600
she can't just like straight up lose
the fight. But I did like that

1419
01:24:59,680 --> 01:25:01,720
it felt like he was in control
for most of it because he had his

1420
01:25:01,800 --> 01:25:05,880
gear and everything, so oh yeah
he is. Gadgets were in full swing.

1421
01:25:06,239 --> 01:25:09,039
Yeah, and that's one thing that
did happen Netflix. So he can

1422
01:25:09,079 --> 01:25:11,600
never use his batons because they never
had the budget. So like the flying

1423
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:15,119
and stuff, I love. That's
very comic, Bookie, and I'm again,

1424
01:25:15,199 --> 01:25:17,800
hopefully the rewrites are going good.
I'm I'm I really need Daredevil to

1425
01:25:17,840 --> 01:25:21,000
be great in a couple of years
here. So when he first pops in

1426
01:25:21,079 --> 01:25:26,000
like dismantles the people with his his
throwballs and then he just kind of like

1427
01:25:26,119 --> 01:25:30,479
couldn't like right about to one V
one echo there and he like has his

1428
01:25:30,479 --> 01:25:32,600
two batons there and just standing there. He totally feels like a boss.

1429
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:36,640
And especially in Maya's position, she's
like a fucking level one noviiccee one,

1430
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:41,800
Like yeah, yeah, like what
a scary first day, Like man crime

1431
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:44,720
is not for me if this is
what I'm dealing with here. Yeah,

1432
01:25:44,800 --> 01:25:47,359
yeah, which sucks though because we
always tell on Civil War with it not

1433
01:25:47,479 --> 01:25:51,760
being cannon where. Uh. I
guess Iron Man when he was looking for

1434
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,680
people for the team, he just
didn't he didn't think Daredevil's good enough,

1435
01:25:55,720 --> 01:25:58,039
you know, because he found him. Yeah, he found Spider Man,

1436
01:25:58,039 --> 01:26:00,760
but I guess he just looked at
Daredevil's footage went now, this guy's not

1437
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:02,560
needed. You know, he's not
gonna be a different line guy, right.

1438
01:26:02,760 --> 01:26:05,760
I feel like I he doesn't know
he's blind Daredevil. He probably knows

1439
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:09,520
if he knew Spider Man was Peter
Parker, he knows d Devil's blind.

1440
01:26:09,760 --> 01:26:13,119
I also think that he probably would
have thought that Matt would have picked cap

1441
01:26:13,239 --> 01:26:16,760
side too, So like told Peter, yeah, Daredevil's going with caps.

1442
01:26:16,800 --> 01:26:19,880
So what about you, terrycause you've
seen like sprinkle here and there you got

1443
01:26:19,880 --> 01:26:23,000
she Hulk? What did you think
about this Daredevils scene? And were you

1444
01:26:23,039 --> 01:26:26,199
disappointed? Was just the one episode? I was very disappointed. It's just

1445
01:26:26,239 --> 01:26:30,840
the one episode. I I thought
this was fantastic. I thought, he

1446
01:26:31,600 --> 01:26:35,319
if this is just kind of like
a prelude to what can I expect?

1447
01:26:35,359 --> 01:26:40,560
But I get more in that Daredevil
show. Oh my goodness, Oh just

1448
01:26:40,960 --> 01:26:44,600
wait, you're gonna the Daredevil show
that you're getting these scenes, not exactly,

1449
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:46,960
but you're getting these scenes, and
I think better in my opinion,

1450
01:26:47,039 --> 01:26:51,439
Like there's a couple of long hallway
fight scenes that are quite good. So

1451
01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:55,680
that that gets me excited, Like
it really really does. And I think

1452
01:26:55,680 --> 01:27:00,039
the way that they delivered him and
this show just you look fantastic, It

1453
01:27:00,159 --> 01:27:04,439
really fantastic. So that gets me
super super pumped. I was thinking about

1454
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:09,079
the Echo. Director says that the
series will feature a number of cameos in

1455
01:27:09,119 --> 01:27:13,439
other films. And shows. Well, you got the item cameos. They

1456
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:17,880
showed a hammer from season of Daredevil, so okay, okay, I guess

1457
01:27:18,079 --> 01:27:23,840
that's what they meant then, not
cameos like characters and whatnot. I think

1458
01:27:23,880 --> 01:27:27,640
that's also another thing too, with
the viewership at numbers when they're doing this

1459
01:27:27,720 --> 01:27:30,199
thing of like, because Dared level
was a lot on the marketing, I

1460
01:27:30,199 --> 01:27:33,279
think even general audiences have figured out
if I just see that character in one

1461
01:27:33,399 --> 01:27:36,359
scene in the marketing, he's not
in that much. And I think people

1462
01:27:36,439 --> 01:27:40,680
have now figured out that, Like
they try to make it like, oh,

1463
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,479
Daredevil's in this and Kingpin's in an
echo. It's like people, no,

1464
01:27:43,600 --> 01:27:46,359
nah, this is a trick.
They're not in there. And yeah,

1465
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:49,520
well I'm I'm like I said,
I'm very disappointed we didn't get to

1466
01:27:49,520 --> 01:27:53,119
have more Daredevil. I feel like
it would have been fantastic to get just

1467
01:27:53,159 --> 01:27:56,159
a little bit more in the present
day setting. But why is Daredevil going

1468
01:27:56,159 --> 01:27:59,840
to Oklahoma? I guess this doesn't
really make much sense. So it wasn't

1469
01:27:59,880 --> 01:28:02,960
an Oklahoma. Oh you mean why
wouldy okay? Yeah, yeah, based

1470
01:28:03,000 --> 01:28:06,079
in New York. Unless Spider Man's
going Oklahoma, then Dared Nevil's gonna go

1471
01:28:06,119 --> 01:28:11,399
out there too. They're all going, let's take another ad break and then

1472
01:28:11,399 --> 01:28:15,239
we'll talk about some more final stuff
and then probably close this down. Will

1473
01:28:15,239 --> 01:28:18,920
be right back and we're back,
dyn. I saw, I saw your

1474
01:28:19,039 --> 01:28:23,199
your lips. Yeah, I got
to twitch. I just have one last

1475
01:28:23,520 --> 01:28:27,479
last note here. Unfortunately it's another
negative thing, but that's that's what it

1476
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,920
gave me here. The in episode
three, the flashback we got there was

1477
01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:35,279
this character and it was like a
black and white sequence which was first shot,

1478
01:28:35,319 --> 01:28:38,960
and like it had like the four
x three ratio, like the kind

1479
01:28:38,960 --> 01:28:42,039
of the film grain, and I
kind of I kind of liked the idea

1480
01:28:42,159 --> 01:28:45,119
of that, but overall, like
I mean, I'm not a film expert

1481
01:28:45,159 --> 01:28:49,439
in terms of, you know,
the size of film and all these effects

1482
01:28:49,479 --> 01:28:54,880
and whatnot, but this definitely felt
like shot digitally and like movie maker black

1483
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:57,560
and white filter over top of it. It did not look very good in

1484
01:28:57,600 --> 01:28:59,680
my opinion. I think when it
had the four x three in the film

1485
01:28:59,720 --> 01:29:02,359
grain, that maybe distorted the black
and white, but you can you could

1486
01:29:02,399 --> 01:29:06,159
just tell because of the lighting and
whatnot. It just it didn't look very

1487
01:29:06,159 --> 01:29:10,800
good. And so this whole sequence
went on longer than it needed to.

1488
01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:13,439
I think it looked cheap because of
that, and then even the action of

1489
01:29:13,520 --> 01:29:17,000
it was was kind of weak.
So that sequence didn't didn't really work for

1490
01:29:17,039 --> 01:29:19,319
me. I agree, I liked
the idea of it. It felt like

1491
01:29:19,359 --> 01:29:21,880
they were trying to achieve like something
like a Wanda vision esque where oh,

1492
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:26,359
we're gonna do something different in the
show. It just yeah, it didn't

1493
01:29:26,359 --> 01:29:28,439
feel right. And I think we've
talked about this before because I was,

1494
01:29:28,760 --> 01:29:31,159
you know, Patron's Clay's issue when
they announced Godzilla in black and white.

1495
01:29:31,439 --> 01:29:33,399
It's like, well, it's not
shaw and black and white. The lighting

1496
01:29:33,439 --> 01:29:36,279
and stuff, and that's why it's
say, I've always tinkered with that idea

1497
01:29:36,319 --> 01:29:40,199
of like I do definitely one day
want to make a GV film that's black

1498
01:29:40,199 --> 01:29:42,039
and white. But that's like the
one where I know, Okay, I

1499
01:29:42,159 --> 01:29:45,960
got to spend days like like,
what's the best way to do this is?

1500
01:29:45,000 --> 01:29:47,920
Because you're right where it's just they
shot it, Okay, here's the

1501
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:50,760
filter. You never want that unless
it's like a small portion. That's where

1502
01:29:50,760 --> 01:29:55,439
I agree with you, where I
just I guess it sounds bad. I

1503
01:29:55,560 --> 01:29:58,960
just didn't care. I didn't,
you know. Unfortunately, So yeah,

1504
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:02,600
some pros. As far as some
stuff, I really liked the visuals of

1505
01:30:02,680 --> 01:30:05,199
when they talked about the birthing scene
for her mom. That was really cool

1506
01:30:05,239 --> 01:30:08,920
in the forest, and they kept
doing that shot of the stick in the

1507
01:30:08,960 --> 01:30:10,840
mouth, which is like, oh
my god, like to use as a

1508
01:30:10,880 --> 01:30:13,760
bite down. But there's this one
shot where she's trying to give birth and

1509
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:15,920
she's up against a tree and there's
rain and stuff like visually, I was

1510
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,399
like, in a lot of the
colors popping off there. I had mentioned

1511
01:30:18,439 --> 01:30:23,560
this kind of all happens that same
sequence where I did like the conversation between

1512
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:26,399
my and her grandma. I just
thought the acting was good there and I

1513
01:30:26,600 --> 01:30:29,640
enjoyed it, and I liked that
she was just acting like things were normal,

1514
01:30:29,720 --> 01:30:31,880
like oh, you want a snack
or whatever. And I think miss

1515
01:30:31,960 --> 01:30:36,119
Cox again does a great job acting
Wise there feeling like abandon again. They

1516
01:30:36,159 --> 01:30:40,840
could have played that more as the
hero wise, and I did like the

1517
01:30:40,960 --> 01:30:44,720
echo and her mom conversation. I
just didn't think it was earned. So

1518
01:30:44,800 --> 01:30:46,560
I liked what was there, but
it just didn't really ring like true to

1519
01:30:46,640 --> 01:30:50,039
me, and much like the Ancestors
moment, it just felt like this isn't

1520
01:30:50,079 --> 01:30:55,000
earn but I like the actual acting
in between and they go back to where

1521
01:30:55,279 --> 01:30:58,439
she's now a grown up woman in
the car accident, she's speaking with her

1522
01:30:58,479 --> 01:31:00,159
mom. Like there's again, there's
much like we mentioned the show. I

1523
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:03,399
think there's aspects of moments like oh
this is really cool idea. It's just

1524
01:31:03,600 --> 01:31:08,600
in a kind of a whole stew
of men. So but there's those are

1525
01:31:08,680 --> 01:31:12,640
some things that I liked but just
didn't maybe hit a home run. But

1526
01:31:13,159 --> 01:31:15,840
I liked the concepts or some visuals
of them, so that's all I got.

1527
01:31:17,039 --> 01:31:21,439
I thought the visuals overall were actually
pretty pretty good, honestly for just

1528
01:31:21,479 --> 01:31:25,319
comparing to some of the other MCU
shows that we've had, there was very

1529
01:31:25,399 --> 01:31:28,960
minimal like log truck. Yeah,
no, log truck, That's what I

1530
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:30,399
was gonna say, Like even compared
it to that, Like it never got

1531
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:32,840
to that level, which is which
is great, you know, like on

1532
01:31:33,039 --> 01:31:36,800
the scale that they like set themselves
up that they couldn't fail in that way,

1533
01:31:36,880 --> 01:31:41,760
which is Yeah. No, I'm
glad they kept it toned down for

1534
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:47,119
that stuff. Yeah, I'll piggyback. Visuals are great. Chiography was great.

1535
01:31:48,199 --> 01:31:51,600
I think that the set pieces too
were really really cool, Like I

1536
01:31:51,680 --> 01:31:57,239
love the the whole fight set up
in the roller skate area arena. That

1537
01:31:57,359 --> 01:31:59,720
was really a lot of fun,
and just the way there was a lot

1538
01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:01,880
of like one takes. The cinematography
was cool. That's the other thing you

1539
01:32:01,960 --> 01:32:05,159
were talking about, Kirklund where Daredevil
popped in there. That was all like

1540
01:32:05,239 --> 01:32:10,159
one continuous shot. It wasn't different
angles flipping around either, So I thought

1541
01:32:10,239 --> 01:32:15,760
that was really really well done.
So, uh yeah, anything else from

1542
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:19,439
the show, any notes pros Collins, anything to shout before we do a

1543
01:32:20,439 --> 01:32:23,960
final rating, and maybe let us
know where you might rank it in the

1544
01:32:24,079 --> 01:32:28,600
MCU if you want to. The
the lacrosse sequence, like that flashback to

1545
01:32:28,680 --> 01:32:31,000
the to the back of the day
moment kind of had me chucklin because what

1546
01:32:31,199 --> 01:32:34,039
like the red team was kicking ass
and then the blue team goes to the

1547
01:32:34,119 --> 01:32:36,520
tent and it's it just reminded me
of the opening of Troy when they go

1548
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:40,920
and get Achilles to like just just
come in here and like that's their MVP

1549
01:32:41,199 --> 01:32:44,159
because this guy just comes in they
just start like bopping them in this lacrosse

1550
01:32:44,239 --> 01:32:46,760
game, and I'm just thinking about
Troy. I'm thinking that I'm watching Echo

1551
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:48,800
and there's only like five episodes in
here, I'm like, what are we

1552
01:32:48,920 --> 01:32:51,640
doing here? Why am I watching
a lacrosse game? But there's a lot

1553
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:56,960
of different emotions going on there.
That's a physical lacrosse game because like the

1554
01:32:57,079 --> 01:33:00,359
loser is banished from the last Yeah, that's not what I I don't know

1555
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:02,520
play it for those steaks. Oh, if those are the stakes, I

1556
01:33:02,560 --> 01:33:06,520
feel like it should have been bloodier, like people should just be like I

1557
01:33:06,560 --> 01:33:13,039
can't imagine. There's many rules back
some of those like ancient like Mayan sports

1558
01:33:13,079 --> 01:33:15,319
and whatnot, they like would use
human heads as like the ball and crazy

1559
01:33:15,319 --> 01:33:18,800
thing. Yeah, this one's very
toned down compared to that. Like Kingpin

1560
01:33:18,880 --> 01:33:24,840
lost one of those games they had
leave Oklahoma unfortunately. Oh no, I

1561
01:33:24,960 --> 01:33:32,840
can go to lacrosse guys anything else, going once, going twice my last

1562
01:33:32,880 --> 01:33:36,520
thing. I guess I did enjoy
as much as I said, I didn't

1563
01:33:36,600 --> 01:33:40,920
enjoy the family kind of all being
like a super team. I did enjoy

1564
01:33:41,000 --> 01:33:47,079
the individual family members. Grandparents were
great, and you would like biscuits is

1565
01:33:47,119 --> 01:33:50,000
definitely at the lower tier. I
didn't really enjoy. It was like,

1566
01:33:50,039 --> 01:33:54,119
and he has to fix the truck, selling the PlayStation one hundred bucks hunder

1567
01:33:54,119 --> 01:33:56,319
bucks on the radio, just going
crazy. I didn't like that, but

1568
01:33:56,760 --> 01:33:59,960
I like the grandpa. The grandpa
is probably my favorite family member him,

1569
01:34:00,239 --> 01:34:02,199
just with the grandma too, when
they have their like their moments and their

1570
01:34:02,600 --> 01:34:05,279
their bickering. But but I loved
it when she came back in and she

1571
01:34:05,399 --> 01:34:09,279
wanted to get the sewing machine,
but he was already going back and he

1572
01:34:09,359 --> 01:34:11,760
cleaned it up for and brought it
to her. I just I think that

1573
01:34:11,920 --> 01:34:15,880
was really really cute. So I
like, I like their relationship. I

1574
01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:17,239
will say too, like there's jokes
and that one didn't hit from me,

1575
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:20,000
but I will also give it credit
because I feel like in Phase four they

1576
01:34:20,079 --> 01:34:24,199
did this too much. Is I
feel like it wasn't like an overly Quippi

1577
01:34:24,279 --> 01:34:27,119
Marvel show. I think there was
humor, but it wasn't Every character was

1578
01:34:27,239 --> 01:34:30,279
jokey and saying some sort of pulp
culture reference. So I appreciate that.

1579
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:34,319
It sucks that's not a project that
I enjoy more because I want that to

1580
01:34:34,359 --> 01:34:38,840
happen in the projects I do enjoy
more because there's just sometimes where they always

1581
01:34:38,880 --> 01:34:43,039
got to go for the joke,
and I appreciate like unfortunately Fins Secret Invasion

1582
01:34:43,119 --> 01:34:44,880
was like that too, where they
didn't go for the joke a lot,

1583
01:34:44,880 --> 01:34:46,159
but again the quality isn't there.
And watch, they're gonna look on it.

1584
01:34:46,359 --> 01:34:49,439
See what makes serious stuff like no
one likes it, no one responds

1585
01:34:49,520 --> 01:34:53,039
to It's like, no, that's
that's not that's not the thing. Don't

1586
01:34:53,039 --> 01:34:55,800
take that lesson away from it.
Can we just say it? Fuck secret

1587
01:34:55,840 --> 01:35:00,960
invasion man? Oh yeah, fuck
secret invasion man came out and I got

1588
01:35:00,079 --> 01:35:04,199
not this year last secret Invasion.
Check out the MCU, going, geeks,

1589
01:35:04,239 --> 01:35:09,079
let's see where it appears, you
know, uh, if we are

1590
01:35:09,119 --> 01:35:12,239
we on final thoughts, then final
thoughts rangs for people? Yeah, sure,

1591
01:35:12,399 --> 01:35:14,520
okay, I'll go first because I
already swelled where I put in the

1592
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:18,159
MCU, Yes, bottom third right
now, So right now it's Secret Invasion

1593
01:35:18,239 --> 01:35:23,079
and men Quantumania and then Echo,
And I think I just have to fail

1594
01:35:23,119 --> 01:35:26,399
because I was going in this cast
because sometimes that happens with scores, where

1595
01:35:26,399 --> 01:35:28,079
I go, Okay, I want
to talk about because there's some things I

1596
01:35:28,119 --> 01:35:30,600
do, like, there's some things
that I have positives, But it's like

1597
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:32,800
how many and also how many will
other people bring up? Wre I go

1598
01:35:32,880 --> 01:35:36,279
oh yeah that or if it's a
different perspective, I go, okay,

1599
01:35:36,359 --> 01:35:40,039
I see it that way now,
I like that more, but didn't happen

1600
01:35:40,159 --> 01:35:43,840
enough in this cast. And maybe
you know, like I'm excited to listen

1601
01:35:43,840 --> 01:35:46,039
to Marvel lines with Chris and Brandt. I think they're a bit more pausitive

1602
01:35:46,039 --> 01:35:47,800
on so if you want to pausitive, you go check it out. But

1603
01:35:48,279 --> 01:35:54,520
that's where it's like, I still
don't think there's enough there for me fucking

1604
01:35:54,680 --> 01:35:58,039
thumbs up. I'm not giving this
the thumbs up. Do you got one

1605
01:35:58,079 --> 01:36:02,399
of these stream yards? No,
I will give this. If I gave

1606
01:36:02,600 --> 01:36:06,880
ant Man a four whatever I gave
at Man because I failed that, I

1607
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,399
would give this like a notch above
it. And I guess if I gave

1608
01:36:10,439 --> 01:36:13,000
Atmin like a four point nine,
i'd give this like a four point nine

1609
01:36:13,000 --> 01:36:17,199
to five. I would still rather
watch I just making ratings. Yeah,

1610
01:36:17,760 --> 01:36:21,279
I would still rather watch this than
Amtman. But the only thing, as

1611
01:36:21,319 --> 01:36:25,600
I said before that ant Man,
you know it's gone now, but at

1612
01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:30,960
least had some good moments from Michelle
Fighter. It had a great performance with

1613
01:36:30,079 --> 01:36:33,560
Kaang. I don't really have a
great thing here, but it's not obnoxiously

1614
01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:36,479
bad or have anything. It's just
a lot of head scratchers, and it's

1615
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:42,760
a lot of weak storylines week writing
week plot and just weak motivations all around.

1616
01:36:42,800 --> 01:36:45,359
Where that's why I do think this
for sure was six episodes, maybe

1617
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:49,399
more, because this is the definition. I haven't dropped it yet, but

1618
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:55,159
this is the definition of butter scraped
over too much bread, and that's what

1619
01:36:55,279 --> 01:36:59,000
Echo is. Uh So I will
I gotta give this a failing great unfortunately,

1620
01:36:59,039 --> 01:37:01,199
and I don't like doing this.
It sucks up into twenty twenty three.

1621
01:37:01,319 --> 01:37:06,039
Never failed a single MCU project,
even Black Widow eternals had issues with.

1622
01:37:06,119 --> 01:37:10,199
There was enough to be I get
this a pass man. And this

1623
01:37:10,399 --> 01:37:12,680
is another thing I'll say, I
forgot to say some of my opening.

1624
01:37:12,760 --> 01:37:15,319
But this is why when people got
on the bandwing and I couldn't cause for

1625
01:37:15,359 --> 01:37:19,039
a whole year we heard, oh
there's problems with Echo, like Kevin Fai,

1626
01:37:19,159 --> 01:37:21,399
he supposedly watched it, wasn't a
fan of it. And then the

1627
01:37:21,479 --> 01:37:25,319
trailer came on, Everyone's like,
oh, fuck those rufers wrong. Look

1628
01:37:25,359 --> 01:37:29,880
at this a great trailer a good
show. It does not make And that's

1629
01:37:29,920 --> 01:37:32,159
the problem where those can fool you. And I'm still worried about Ironheart.

1630
01:37:32,239 --> 01:37:36,159
I'm worried about Agatha. I'm worried
about all these shows that was made in

1631
01:37:36,199 --> 01:37:41,039
this era that we hurt Daredevil when
they stopped. Luckily, when we heard

1632
01:37:41,079 --> 01:37:44,319
those reports of oh yeah, they're
really unhappy with how these shows were going,

1633
01:37:44,640 --> 01:37:46,439
we still got a couple more of
those shows coming our way. So

1634
01:37:46,600 --> 01:37:51,359
I have very low expectations for anything
before Daredevil that's live action, because I

1635
01:37:51,359 --> 01:37:55,600
think this was me that like rush
it out, get it there, get

1636
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:58,960
it done, put out a product. And again it's just I think this

1637
01:37:59,079 --> 01:38:02,159
is stuff. This I think not
hurt the MSU in a way where it's

1638
01:38:02,199 --> 01:38:05,640
like the Cannon, it just hurts
it where people watch us turn it off

1639
01:38:05,720 --> 01:38:10,479
and get less excited for Kingpin or
Daredevil and stuff. So yeah, I'll

1640
01:38:10,520 --> 01:38:13,439
just say a four point nine just
a pullo a fail, but I gotta

1641
01:38:13,439 --> 01:38:17,359
fail it. I love it.
I think for me, you know,

1642
01:38:17,680 --> 01:38:19,880
it's funny, funny. This is
like if I had to compare it to

1643
01:38:19,920 --> 01:38:26,439
anything in Sam's Oh my God,
I'm my triple words nitthing in the MCU,

1644
01:38:26,760 --> 01:38:30,439
I guess i'd compare most to Miss
Marvel in that you know, there's

1645
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:32,279
a couple of good moments I like, but overall it's like the show is

1646
01:38:32,319 --> 01:38:36,039
pretty weak. But I still really
liked my main character here, and that's

1647
01:38:36,079 --> 01:38:41,399
the same thing here. So I'm
hopeful that there is a future ahead for

1648
01:38:41,479 --> 01:38:45,199
Echo that I enjoy, where she
can pop up in something like a Daredevil

1649
01:38:45,319 --> 01:38:48,159
or other you know, New York
or Oklahoma street level things and we can

1650
01:38:48,239 --> 01:38:51,199
get some more for character, because
I'd like to see that there, because

1651
01:38:51,239 --> 01:38:55,039
even you know, miss Marvel,
I like the Marvels more than other people.

1652
01:38:55,079 --> 01:38:57,920
I don't love it by any means, but at least like that character

1653
01:38:57,960 --> 01:39:00,720
went on to do something else that
was better than that TV show. So

1654
01:39:01,199 --> 01:39:04,439
I don't have my UH list in
front of me here, so I don't

1655
01:39:04,479 --> 01:39:09,079
know exactly where i'd put it,
but I could easily PLoP this in the

1656
01:39:09,159 --> 01:39:14,520
bottom five at the time being.
I want to say i'd put it above

1657
01:39:14,600 --> 01:39:18,640
Secret Invasion Quantum. Yeah, I
got I gotta put my list in front

1658
01:39:18,640 --> 01:39:20,840
of me here, but definitely bottom
five. I can say that without a

1659
01:39:21,239 --> 01:39:26,119
without a doubt, I think.
So it's unfortunate, uh, but that's

1660
01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:29,479
just the way she goes. So
looking forward to the next one, which

1661
01:39:29,560 --> 01:39:35,800
is Deadpool, I guess yeah,
man x Men better deliver as well too.

1662
01:39:35,840 --> 01:39:39,000
If X Men is like this cool, like if they were disappointed the

1663
01:39:39,079 --> 01:39:42,960
X Men, that's gonna fucking hurt
big time. Yeah, I mean obviously,

1664
01:39:43,079 --> 01:39:46,760
like Guardians was great last year,
but from Secret Invasion A man,

1665
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:50,279
I didn't like Local season two into
Marvel's he has you know what it is?

1666
01:39:50,960 --> 01:39:54,000
I guess what if was in there. But yeah, it's been a

1667
01:39:54,119 --> 01:39:56,760
bit a rough stretch here for me. So and I'm you tend to be

1668
01:39:56,840 --> 01:40:00,119
more tend to be more positive.
I think on some MCU stuff, you

1669
01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:09,760
guys get concerned about what they might
think is like he's something like Empra Palpatine

1670
01:40:09,800 --> 01:40:18,239
there for a second, dog go
their interpretation of violence and like mature content

1671
01:40:18,359 --> 01:40:24,880
and whatnot. Uh, based on
what we've seen with Echo applied to Deadpool

1672
01:40:24,920 --> 01:40:29,600
three, Deadpool no other stuff.
Yes, Okay, I think because it's

1673
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,520
Reynolds, he gets the you get
the past. You can make dial Joe

1674
01:40:32,640 --> 01:40:35,560
jokes, you can like have anal
sex like no but like that, Like

1675
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:40,319
I think that's like Joe dial Joe, like you can do anything you want.

1676
01:40:40,640 --> 01:40:44,600
I think when we hear these rumors
about Blade being emirated and Daredevil,

1677
01:40:45,199 --> 01:40:47,600
that's where I feel like this could
this is what they think is mature,

1678
01:40:47,840 --> 01:40:49,880
and maybe it'll take it as a
lesson, be like, oh, it's

1679
01:40:49,920 --> 01:40:53,880
not because like I feel like where
Old by Nite had. I feel like

1680
01:40:53,880 --> 01:40:58,479
Werewolf Night was more mature than this, but that that was just a special

1681
01:40:58,600 --> 01:41:01,239
So I would expect Daredevil's mature to
be like this that Okay, we see

1682
01:41:01,279 --> 01:41:04,319
some blood splatter, but we're not. And even Netflix, they'd never drop

1683
01:41:04,359 --> 01:41:08,479
the F bomb. You never saw
any dick, you never saw any titties,

1684
01:41:08,520 --> 01:41:13,640
you know, like they they were
hard. They were a hard PG.

1685
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:17,239
Thirteen like they were I guess mature, but it just felt more No

1686
01:41:17,399 --> 01:41:24,199
even like even Loki season two or
I would say like any specifically, maybe

1687
01:41:24,239 --> 01:41:29,079
Guardians three, like those all feel
more mature to mean they given Secret Invasion,

1688
01:41:29,199 --> 01:41:30,960
throw that in the bucket too.
Those all feel more mature to me

1689
01:41:31,079 --> 01:41:34,520
than this does. Even though there's
no bullets, their heads in blood.

1690
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:40,319
I guess. God, remember Olivia
Coleman was in Secret Invasion. I know

1691
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:46,399
I agree with Travis on that,
I'm not. I feel like a deadpool.

1692
01:41:46,399 --> 01:41:50,039
They're like, yeah, do your
thing, we'll prove it whatever you

1693
01:41:50,119 --> 01:41:53,680
know, we have faith in your
in your team over there but yeah,

1694
01:41:53,680 --> 01:41:59,000
I there is some worries for sure
for other things that I'd say are more

1695
01:41:59,039 --> 01:42:02,359
in that traditional Marvel creative bucket.
Right now definitely makes me want to lower

1696
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:08,520
my bar on expectations for if they
It's not like like after this, it's

1697
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:11,800
not like, oh my gosh,
this project's gonna be R rated, buckle

1698
01:42:11,920 --> 01:42:15,520
up. This is gonna be crazy. Like it's definitely never in that category.

1699
01:42:15,760 --> 01:42:17,960
After seeing this, it's gonna be
crazy though, and even to me,

1700
01:42:18,159 --> 01:42:23,199
like the brand of already Marvel Spotlight, it just like starts with a

1701
01:42:23,239 --> 01:42:26,880
whimper. It's like if I get
this logo again, yeah, sure,

1702
01:42:26,920 --> 01:42:30,880
it's like Kingpin for me. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like what does

1703
01:42:30,960 --> 01:42:32,960
this mean? Like what does it
mean? Because I just like and especially

1704
01:42:33,039 --> 01:42:35,279
too, like, oh, this
is gonna be a character focused Like I

1705
01:42:35,319 --> 01:42:39,800
don't think this was character It focused
on a character, but I don't think

1706
01:42:39,840 --> 01:42:43,760
this was a character driven story.
So right away, this Spotlight branding,

1707
01:42:43,840 --> 01:42:45,359
it's just a brand. It's just
like I feel like this is something they

1708
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:49,119
threw in there to make Echo more
appealing to people, but it means nothing

1709
01:42:49,199 --> 01:42:54,359
unfortunately. So h mister patz Er, what would be your rating and what

1710
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:58,119
are you thinking right now? Yeah, this is this is tricky. I'm

1711
01:42:58,319 --> 01:43:01,399
I'm similar to you where I was
curious how I was gonna fluctuate on my

1712
01:43:01,479 --> 01:43:04,279
feelings, like after the review,
after we've talked about something. Sometimes we

1713
01:43:04,359 --> 01:43:09,319
talked about something that's really positive that
boosts my score or supernaga that that lowers

1714
01:43:09,359 --> 01:43:13,159
it, and it kind of lowered
a little bit, but like nothing too

1715
01:43:13,279 --> 01:43:17,800
drastic. I have made the decision
I am gonna fail this show. Pretty

1716
01:43:17,880 --> 01:43:23,680
rare for me. That's it's definitely
across the MCU, especially like I feel

1717
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,239
like I even just in general,
I feel like it's very rare for me

1718
01:43:26,319 --> 01:43:30,439
to fail. Someone listen, do
you think you have atrocious secret invasion for

1719
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:32,840
sure? Turnals? I did,
No, I don't. I don't think

1720
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:35,560
you did what I did for Eternals. I got to rewatch that movie.

1721
01:43:36,279 --> 01:43:40,039
I do. I do got to
rewatch it. It needs to climb out

1722
01:43:40,079 --> 01:43:42,359
of the dredges that you that we
have at the bottom. I feel like

1723
01:43:42,359 --> 01:43:45,520
there's a clear dredge here now of
these of these marvel things, and I

1724
01:43:45,560 --> 01:43:48,640
feel like Eternals does not belong there, even for you guys, not now

1725
01:43:48,760 --> 01:43:51,119
though, because for me that was
like, oh, this is a decent

1726
01:43:51,199 --> 01:43:55,199
movie, but we have so much
greatness eternals. I'm picking every day over

1727
01:43:55,399 --> 01:43:58,680
Echo Secret Invasion at Man. That
makes me happy, even though it's a

1728
01:43:58,840 --> 01:44:00,640
huge asterix on it. Yeah,
but like, yeah, I'll have to

1729
01:44:00,720 --> 01:44:04,079
go back if you did fail.
It was like a four point nine situation.

1730
01:44:04,239 --> 01:44:09,720
Yeah you were, it was close. Yeah, So yeah, I

1731
01:44:10,000 --> 01:44:12,199
my letter back legged out. I
couldn't pull it up. I was gonna

1732
01:44:12,279 --> 01:44:15,840
check my MSUs just timeline there,
but I'll update you in the future.

1733
01:44:15,880 --> 01:44:18,880
But nonetheless, for this show,
like there is aspects that I liked,

1734
01:44:18,960 --> 01:44:24,039
and for that reason, I did
want more episodes to just dive into regions

1735
01:44:24,079 --> 01:44:27,239
that they kind of kind of you
know, exposed me to a little bit,

1736
01:44:27,359 --> 01:44:30,520
but we just didn't jump into them. With the plot stuff and the

1737
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:32,840
character stuff and just a lot of
it, it just seemed like they try

1738
01:44:32,880 --> 01:44:36,279
to cover some things or introduce some
things without actually diving into them. And

1739
01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:40,640
for that reason, that's just that's
just a fail. That's that's not how

1740
01:44:40,720 --> 01:44:44,680
you tell a story. And big
let down with the Kingpin appearance. Wanted

1741
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:47,680
more Daredevil. I thought he was
fantastic in here. But the main reason

1742
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:50,520
why it's so tragic that I'm failing. This is because like the main was

1743
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:55,039
amazing. I really liked the casting, like I did, like the performances

1744
01:44:55,159 --> 01:44:58,199
and the stuff that they're going for, but they just didn't keep going with

1745
01:44:58,319 --> 01:45:03,000
it. And yeah, like,
is it just Disney had such little faith

1746
01:45:03,079 --> 01:45:08,399
that or I guess Marvel had such
little faith that it was going to like

1747
01:45:08,479 --> 01:45:11,720
people are gonna be interested if they
did more episodes than this. I'm just

1748
01:45:11,840 --> 01:45:15,920
curious what those boardroom meetings were going
on with this, because, as you

1749
01:45:15,000 --> 01:45:18,239
mentioned, like we did know that
there was some issues with the overall production

1750
01:45:18,319 --> 01:45:21,760
of this, and it's very rare
to have a show just binge release,

1751
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,520
especially in the MCU model, and
it's the first time I wanted to do

1752
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:29,600
that. Yeah, right, it's
very rare, and I just would love

1753
01:45:29,720 --> 01:45:31,279
those rumors were true of like,
oh yeah, fig he didn't like what

1754
01:45:31,359 --> 01:45:33,279
he saw. It's like, well, what was the original? You know?

1755
01:45:33,600 --> 01:45:35,920
And who knows, maybe that's against
him, maybe the original is better,

1756
01:45:36,000 --> 01:45:39,239
Like oh, well, this is
too much of this and it's not

1757
01:45:39,279 --> 01:45:44,479
because maybe there is a whole show
that is just really lots of character conversations

1758
01:45:44,520 --> 01:45:45,680
with the family and about the culture. And he's like, well, leave

1759
01:45:46,119 --> 01:45:48,439
what you can in there, but
like this is too long, and again

1760
01:45:48,479 --> 01:45:50,720
it could just be all bullshit.
Maybe this was just say I'm happy with

1761
01:45:50,800 --> 01:45:54,239
it. And then at the same
time, then if this is what FII

1762
01:45:54,319 --> 01:45:59,000
looked at it, yeah, this
is good to go. Like I don't

1763
01:45:59,039 --> 01:46:00,600
want to say I'm losing faith fivey
but it's like we're getting at that point

1764
01:46:00,640 --> 01:46:05,239
where it's definitely like we're past that
point of like we can just trust him

1765
01:46:05,279 --> 01:46:09,479
now. But it's like this are
these past two years, these projects coming

1766
01:46:09,520 --> 01:46:12,560
out. It's like, how did
we get this? And I knows was

1767
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:15,800
forced on him, like you gotta
make content, but just like how can

1768
01:46:15,880 --> 01:46:16,960
you just, in my opinion,
look at this and be like this is

1769
01:46:17,239 --> 01:46:19,439
good to go? And that's why
I think it's a bitch because it's like,

1770
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:21,520
let's get it out there. We're
not going to talk about it.

1771
01:46:21,600 --> 01:46:25,399
You won't see Echo probably for at
least a couple of years because I don't

1772
01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:28,479
think she'll be I don't know,
maybe she'll be in Daredevil, but like

1773
01:46:28,560 --> 01:46:30,760
I I don't know. It's just
like there's a good chance to show years

1774
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:35,319
twenty episodes, like why not you
know she's in the same amount as Matt

1775
01:46:35,479 --> 01:46:39,720
is in this show, right,
I can see that definitely happened. It's

1776
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:43,640
just the same scene, but just
flip from his perspective, just like they

1777
01:46:43,680 --> 01:46:45,560
did in the Hawkeye scenes. Here
she just kicks the shit out of him.

1778
01:46:45,880 --> 01:46:49,399
Yeah, like up, she's got
her glowing hands now, and then

1779
01:46:49,439 --> 01:46:55,840
heals them after. She's a good
person, you can see. But for

1780
01:46:57,039 --> 01:47:00,239
she just completely heals him. He
stops fighting crime. He just like he's

1781
01:47:00,319 --> 01:47:05,199
no longer blind, Like what happened. He goes the location with fucking he

1782
01:47:05,199 --> 01:47:09,439
doesn't want to be a lawyer anymore. Look at it. It becomes a

1783
01:47:09,520 --> 01:47:12,960
podcaster. Yeah, who else could
he hear? Who else could she heal?

1784
01:47:13,039 --> 01:47:15,760
The m just goes to Tony's grave. Just just a lot of broken

1785
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:21,239
souls in the m C. But
for my ranking number, I think it

1786
01:47:21,439 --> 01:47:27,359
is close to five, like four
point It's tough because I just again,

1787
01:47:27,399 --> 01:47:30,319
I don't know what I could would
compare it to with like secret evasion or

1788
01:47:30,319 --> 01:47:33,039
something, but I want to be
close to four point nine, So I'll

1789
01:47:33,079 --> 01:47:38,000
do like four point eight. Let's
just say that a little bit lower than

1790
01:47:38,039 --> 01:47:45,359
travel, all right, Taylor,
send us off. I just think characters

1791
01:47:45,439 --> 01:47:53,359
that could be healed. Colonel Rhodes, which was Terrence Howard yea yeah,

1792
01:47:53,720 --> 01:48:01,279
get Terrenceward, Yeah, Mark Ruffalos
Edward and again, oh yeah, Rody,

1793
01:48:01,319 --> 01:48:05,239
he's been a he's been a scroll
for years. Two. Oh my

1794
01:48:05,359 --> 01:48:10,079
gosh, I did forget about you
know. After after we watch like just

1795
01:48:10,119 --> 01:48:14,760
side attention, after we're watching Endgame
recently and just seeing like Roady in certain

1796
01:48:14,800 --> 01:48:17,840
situations in there, I'm convinced that
no, this is this is genuinely the

1797
01:48:17,920 --> 01:48:21,560
real Roady, because I feel like
a Scroll Roady would just drop the broken

1798
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:28,840
legs gimmick and just like fed for
themselves until we get it confirmed. There's

1799
01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:31,960
some situations where he's like trapped in
but he's like he's crawling, but a

1800
01:48:32,039 --> 01:48:35,720
Scroll Roady would be like, no, up on his feet and leaning into

1801
01:48:35,760 --> 01:48:40,760
that. He's just like the best
actor in the world. My legs Tody

1802
01:48:41,359 --> 01:48:46,680
tears again until we get it confirmed
because he had the same outfit they had

1803
01:48:47,399 --> 01:48:54,960
been a hospital. But yeah,
the this this show, I would have

1804
01:48:55,159 --> 01:48:59,560
loved it. If they were able
to capitalize on a few few more things

1805
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:02,199
just got a little bit more of
a cohesive story. That being said,

1806
01:49:02,760 --> 01:49:08,079
I'm interested to see what they do
with this character if they just drop her

1807
01:49:08,079 --> 01:49:10,840
all together, or if they bring
her back in some shape or form in

1808
01:49:10,840 --> 01:49:13,119
the future, which I hope they
do, because I feel like this character

1809
01:49:13,159 --> 01:49:19,680
deserves justice and deserves to have like
a proper MCU narrative fleshed out, not

1810
01:49:19,840 --> 01:49:23,960
anything that's rushed and chopped up and
mingled up like they did with this show.

1811
01:49:24,159 --> 01:49:28,199
Again, I think the show landed
on some really cool cultural representations and

1812
01:49:28,319 --> 01:49:33,039
some really cool elements and just very
cool choreography. Enough good things that I

1813
01:49:33,119 --> 01:49:35,119
am going to pass it, but
I'm just gonna go with a five.

1814
01:49:35,279 --> 01:49:39,600
I'm gonna keep it right out of
five. I left you last. I

1815
01:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,000
actually thought your score is gonna be
lower than me and Kirklands. No,

1816
01:49:42,279 --> 01:49:44,600
no like I thought you. I
thought you're gonna give it a six.

1817
01:49:45,319 --> 01:49:47,479
I thought about the six, but
after us like talking and out and kind

1818
01:49:47,479 --> 01:49:51,119
of venting some grievances that kind of
made me feel confident on that five,

1819
01:49:51,479 --> 01:49:55,039
I still wanted to pass it.
I didn't want to fail it because I

1820
01:49:55,079 --> 01:49:59,840
feel like there's enough good things in
this show. But I'm I'm I'm not

1821
01:50:00,039 --> 01:50:02,279
afraid of Kingpin. I wish we
got to explore that dynamic a little bit

1822
01:50:02,560 --> 01:50:05,880
like that sound like he called you
out and this is the issue, and

1823
01:50:06,239 --> 01:50:12,520
like, I'm not afraid of king
Pin. I'll take this Sunday. You

1824
01:50:12,560 --> 01:50:17,520
hear that, Oklahoma, You and
me, Kingpin, Let's go the powow

1825
01:50:17,800 --> 01:50:25,479
just a big ball at the RPG
fireworks. Nice. Uh yeah, that's

1826
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:29,159
it and we will be back for
Deadpool. And I just really I have

1827
01:50:29,279 --> 01:50:31,359
faith in Deadpool, but I just
hope next year because I feel like we're

1828
01:50:31,359 --> 01:50:33,640
talking almost the last newscast. I
know there's one review like, oh,

1829
01:50:33,680 --> 01:50:36,720
I like the dress as a Simon
cal the group and stuff like I actually

1830
01:50:36,800 --> 01:50:41,239
don't enjoy talking about the mcu wh
and it's this quality like it's like I

1831
01:50:41,319 --> 01:50:44,000
have fun because we get the joke
around and some memes happen everything, but

1832
01:50:44,039 --> 01:50:46,399
it's like it's just a bummer that
we've had too much. It's too much

1833
01:50:46,479 --> 01:50:50,399
right now, like was way off
we've had so it'd be different if it

1834
01:50:50,520 --> 01:50:54,760
was like like you said on the
ratio of like too great then too bad,

1835
01:50:54,840 --> 01:50:58,079
Like it'd be like and there was
like a back from last year.

1836
01:50:58,079 --> 01:51:00,880
We got so much bad stuff and
then now it's just or even if it's

1837
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:03,239
bad, she's like mediocre stuff as
well. So I'm just like I'm just

1838
01:51:03,359 --> 01:51:10,039
bummed. I do I really miss
the Phase three first half of Phase four

1839
01:51:10,119 --> 01:51:14,439
era where everything was like good to
great and I'm fine with seven out of

1840
01:51:14,520 --> 01:51:17,720
ten still, but like, I
just don't need multiple failing things. So

1841
01:51:17,800 --> 01:51:21,359
I just man, I hope,
like because I think sometimes people think like,

1842
01:51:21,399 --> 01:51:24,079
oh, yeah, you want to
you can't wait to tell this by

1843
01:51:24,199 --> 01:51:27,239
Like no, I wish I had. I wish that I'm not already forgetting

1844
01:51:27,279 --> 01:51:30,319
Echo. I wish that I had
another Kingpin thing, Like I just want

1845
01:51:30,399 --> 01:51:31,920
some good MCU back. So I
hope. I think we'll get them a

1846
01:51:32,000 --> 01:51:34,840
Deadpool, but that's tough because that's
Ryan Reynell's crew, so it's like it's

1847
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:40,960
tough to gauge there. So hopefully
X Men Deadpool, what if three Spider

1848
01:51:41,079 --> 01:51:45,640
Man Isoconda, whatever these shows are, whatever amalgamation is, I hope the

1849
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,680
next time we get to be more
positive and just have a have a good

1850
01:51:47,720 --> 01:51:50,199
time in the sense of like,
oh this is great and this was great,

1851
01:51:50,279 --> 01:51:54,439
So hopefully I can. I believe
I'm giving them, I'm giving a

1852
01:51:54,479 --> 01:51:58,199
full year and a half twenty twenty
six is my like of a fishing lost

1853
01:51:58,279 --> 01:52:00,159
faith, you know, if it
if I have a bumpy road, you

1854
01:52:00,239 --> 01:52:06,000
know, so it's like three years
pretty much. I know. Thy gentlemen,

1855
01:52:06,800 --> 01:52:11,960
thank you very much for tuning in. Let us know. If you're

1856
01:52:12,000 --> 01:52:14,239
on the more puzlans, please let
us know same thing. If there's anything

1857
01:52:14,279 --> 01:52:16,000
we got wrong, I'll absolutely walk
back and be like, oh no,

1858
01:52:16,199 --> 01:52:19,720
they answered this here right there,
go okay perfect, you know. But

1859
01:52:19,840 --> 01:52:23,600
if you can't, or if you
have more examples like fucking the guy and

1860
01:52:23,840 --> 01:52:27,600
Wakanu who bak who became a king? Let us know Twitter, Facebook,

1861
01:52:27,680 --> 01:52:29,880
the discord. Thank you very much
for tuning in. When you hear from

1862
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:31,640
us next, it'll not be boring, see buddy,