Hello, ladies and gentleman, and welcome to the five hundred and ninety fourth
episode of the Geek First podcast. I am when I was a boy,
Travis Snell, and I'm joined by I'm just telling must today. Oh wait,
I was here first? But was that your name? Yeah, Dylan,
I'm meaning, oh wow, yeah, look at this. I did
not read your guys' names prior to this. I don't know who was who
was here first. But Taylor was in the room for well, actually no,
Travis, you joined the room, but you didn't sit down right.
I was good water. Yeah, he might have claim to it, then,
Taylor, I got to say, it has a good faith. I'll
change it. It's a tie. You can go with it. But that's
super crazy though, I'll go a couple of boys in the Taylor field,
Okay, just Ellen or yes, ladies, gentlemen, we may or may
not be joined by a mister patz earliter On. He's in a battle apparently,
but we'll about that later. We are here to talk about technically.
It feels odd that's just this early on, but the first MCU project of
the year. But it's good because after this is gonna be a big,
big, drought because Deadpool does not come out to July and as of right
now, unless like what if or like Spider Man like comes out or I
guess x Men, but even then that's our yeah, even though that's not
MCU, but like, yeah, x Men is on the way. So
but yeah, this is the first dip into it. So if you like
what we do here, there is other things to promote, but we review
everything MCUY as we talk about the shows, the movies we just did,
and Marvel Draft which is not public yet, but you can go on Patreon
right now. You can get three juicy episodes on patron right now, ad
Forree and early the Marvel Draft, the movie preview, and the movie draft.
Golden Geeks are coming up, so there's lots of good things on Patreon.
If you don't like ads, that's the one for you. You also
get a nice RSS feed, so lots of good stuff on there right now.
I'll tell you more about that stuff later, but yeah, we're here
for Echo. I'll see. This is a character that started out in Marvel
comics, of course, but in the MCU Realm Hawkeye. She was debut
there as like a villain and then they decide oh, we're gonna spin her
off, And I feel like we all had questions about what that's gonna go.
We had heard all it's maybe a troll production, but then when you
got this great trailer that everyone's like, oh, maybe there's something there.
So, Dylan Muss, I'm to start with you. As usual for anyone
that's new, we do a nonsports. This will probably be about fifteen twenty
minutes when it's all said and done. So if you're still watching, or
maybe the MCU has been rocky for you, go hey, is this worth
me even watching five episodes? We will let you know when we're getting to
a point where it's beyond return. So, Dylan Muss, where were you
at for these five episodes? Overall? I was fairly disappointed in this series.
I feel like my expectations weren't necessarily very high, but I was expecting
something tonally different, maybe even bit content different, just because of the Marvel
Spotlight thing that they were really setting this up. Right, this is the
new kind of subheader I guess of the MCU, or it's kind of the
R rated stuff I suppose, but it really didn't feel all that different for
me. In fact, it actually felt like a bit more kid friendly and
immature at times than other MCU projects. So I think in that way,
I was maybe disappointed. But in terms of like what actually goes on in
here, there was nothing that was particularly well. There's a couple things that
are bad, there was nothing like outright horrible. I think most of the
most of it just ended up being quite middling unfortunately. Uh and uh yeah,
we can get into the specifics of why that is, but yeah,
it just wasn't the most compelling story. There's a couple elements I do really
enjoy, but I just feel like I didn't really need five episodes to get
some of those things. Any of the really new characters didn't really do it
for me. I think it mostly that comes down to writing, but there's
also some not great acting in this. I felt, I think, you
know, our main, our main Echo and Kingpin are great, but other
than that, I don't know if there's really ain't many standouts, and uh
yeah, overall, just pretty underwhelmed, and there wasn't a whole lot here
that that really surprised me or blew me away. So uh, definitely disappointed,
but also yeah, my expectations even though those trailers were like, seemed
interesting different. I didn't have my expectations too high, so not heartbroken.
Yeah, I will go next because unfortunately I think I'm pretty. I'm pretty.
I feel like you. I'd have to go back, but most time
you stuff. I feel like the past year, Dylan and I are pretty
much in sync on I. I'm pretty much dead on with you. I
don't so here I'll start. I won't give you a rating because I will
tell you that I'm not even sure if I'm a pass or fail on the
show, because I don't think there's there's okay, some actors I've maybe met,
but like I don't think it's like man all the acting cross board really
weakness the point no, like I think Alca Cox she's great as Echo.
I like or her does and didn't know if you'l always delivers like he's just
like a constant guy. And even other people that come in, like a
person plays her grandma and there's a couple other side character where I go,
there's no one that's overly bad. There's nothing that's like overly bad. Effects
wise, It's not to me like Secret Invasion where it just takes a huge
cliff dive and like all these terrible decisions and you get guy with the fight
like nothing like that, and it's not like Quantum Mania where it feels like
this big mess. But I think it's just it's so uninspiring. And that's
where I will say, so I won't spoil my rating, I will say,
and it's really unfortunate for me that this is in the bottom three of
my rankings now and it sucks because now I have secret invasion ant man in
this. So my bottom three is just all Phase five stuff. It's not
it's not good. And that's where I am. Where the whole the Marvel
studio or what is it, the Marvel Spotlight, it doesn't it's it's nothing
it there's no difference. The ma Okay, there's a little blood, but
even that that was super underwhelming for them to be like it reminds me very
similar to Moonnight, when like, oh, you're gonna see fights and brutality
and here like you've never seen a Marvel and that wasn't really the case.
And same thing here. Yeah, of course you see some blood splatter and
a bowlgo through, but it's very tame. And that's why I'd say,
where I would just have to push back on people and say, oh,
this is the closest to Marvel Netflix it's been. I don't think so at
all. Like this feels, yeah, this is very light and one thing
good or bad. Marvel Netflix did have and sometimes for me it was bad.
But like for me, someone like Foggy, you thought that got too
much screen time. But then there's times where me and dil are minority.
But someone like Ward Meechum, I love that character, and yeah, you
got two seasons of this character. That's the problem here where there's a lot
of characters here and in the five episodes, there is not enough time to
connect with any of these people. It is all cliff notes. I sent
this to Tailor because he was the first one closest to where while I was
at the point watching it, and I just had to drop him the gift
from the Grinch of look at that hack job. And that's what the show
reminded me where I think this show definitely had more and they chopped it down.
I think there's I think this definitely was at least six episodes, maybe
seven, but there's stuff just I think missing from the show, and it
really that's where for me it might be a fail that it's not as bad
as Secret Invasion, it's not as messy as Quanmedia, but it's just so
lackluster and uninspiring. I think the two things they did well that weren't inspiring,
where the ASL stuff was great. There's tons of things they do here
with that, with Maya's disability or you know, what has affect her life
that I go, oh, this is great. Majority of the cast is
using Sile language. There's this really cool tech thing they do in the later
episode. I'm like, oh, this is really awesome. So that stuff's
good. I think the culture stuff too, all works. I just wish
it was in a better story. It feels like if you watch Black Panther
and it was just about the racism stuff, but then the story wasn't that
good. That's to me what Echo is where representation is good. There's tons
of actors of that community. I think they try to educate you on some
things, but I think it's just kind of like scratches the surface unfortunately,
and it doesn't feel it doesn't feel earned a lot of it. It's like
minor sports. But I think enough people know. I also just I we'll
get into it, but there's supernatural or power aspects in here, and I
just think they don't gel well with the story they're telling here as well.
Everything just feels very rushed and yeah, unfortunately this is just like another big
disappointment for Marvel. I think this is like I don't know if you ever
actually see Echo ever again. Like I think it's not that bad at the
show, it's just that forgettable where it's just there's nothing. There's nothing here,
and there's characters that could be interesting, including Maya, that they don't
dive into, including Kingpin they don't dive into. There's just certain huge storylines
that they just don't even talk about. Here's one thing I don't care.
It's my spoilers, but whatever. Not once does Echo ask Kingpin why he
had her father killed. Never does it happen she Never. You would feel
like if this man that you killed in Hawke and clearly he's alive right in
the show. You've seen the market, he's alive, so it's like,
hey, he's around and they have conversations. You would think one of the
questions you would want to ask, is he why'd you kill my dad?
We're family. He helped raise me, why'd you do that? That never
once ever comes up. It never comes up that Maya has killed innocent people.
They just treat her in the show like she's just a regular avenger that's
off on the side, like and it's strange where there's a pivot in the
show where she's like, I'm gonna be the next queen and then it's like,
oh, but what if I could be a hero for my community.
It's it's all over So that's right, I say, acting's not bad performances,
some stories aren't so bad, but it's just it's all surface level.
My last point before before I throw to mister Passers, it just feels like
if you were to go read clifft Cliff and Cliff Nuts Nuts, if you
got cliff notes of the show, if Dale said, hey, I didn't
see echo, what happened is, oh, well this happened, and this
happened, and this happened, and then it they'll be like, oh,
I gotta go watch her social and get the emotional impact of that. The
problem is when you watch the show, it doesn't have any of that.
There's connections that they just throw you a line of like, oh yeah,
that's my cousin. Oh yeah, there's that, and that's about it.
There's frustrating situations. There's constantly the thing I hate where villain or character is
beaten and the tour just leaves for no reason. They've won the fight,
they could kill this enemy, and they're just they just leave. They're like,
got whatever, I'm done with this just for plot armors. So there's
tons of issues and it's just yeah, it was it was not it was
not good. I think that they were smart to drop this in a binge
model, because if this was weekly, I think people would jump off after
episode, maybe even one like I think this was smarter than to do that.
But I think this is another case where one I would not recommend this
to anybody that's not in the Marvel and even the Marvel stuff, it's hard
for me to like Kyle because Kyle now is more back to mainstream and like,
I'm not gonna tell him to watch Echo and he loves Marvel stuff,
but like, there's nothing here that you can't watch in a YouTube best stuff,
and that's what's really unfortunate. So on many spectrums, it might be
called uh, you know, spotlight, but it has the same if not
other problems that Phase four ms, especially Phase five did, so yeah,
I was really disappointed. It's not because just so bad, it's just so
underwhelming. So I'm gonna throw to mister pats us pats or you missed that.
Dylan was kind of same waylength with me. So do you where are
you on? Echo? Yeah? This is this is an interesting one because
there's a lot of aspects that were shown here that I actually really really liked.
And there was many moments throughout the show that I'm like, man,
this does not feel like a Disney Plus show. And that's like or sorry,
like, this does not feel like a Marvel Disney Plus show. And
that was a big positive for me because it just felt like it really broke
the barrier. I guess she Hulk is a very different comparison to some of
the other MCO shows, but there's still moments in she Hulk that feels like
the MCU shows. And that's not just because we have she Hulk or you
know, Bruce Banner on there, like the names that we can see like
there's just a certain vibe. Maybe it's maybe it is like the big culture
thing where like a lot of the music, it just it doesn't feel like
a stock standard like free sample that like the MCU just has and like recycles
into their shows to just like get those big action moments. Like I don't
know, just the overall vibe. I did quite like the change up there.
Pretty much all the positives that you already listed, I completely agree with.
I think this is I mean, I've never seen coda. I think
it's so this is the first project that I've seen that has like American sign
language in it, and this is by far like the best thing I've ever
like seen trying to like represent that. And yeah, you're you mentioned like
the usage of the tech that they have later on the episode, like,
uh, the episode. It's funny, the whole length of the show almost
feels like an episode, yes, later on the in the series, I
guess I'll call it. So like all that stuff was really really good.
I really really love the moments when it would go from like Maya's perspective and
it's just like completely dead silent, and it just kind of like gives you
a glimpse of to like what kind of like being a deaf person is,
and it's just like, man, like I don't really think about that quite
often and that's just that's just so crazy to me. I feel like I
totally take my my senses for for granted now after after watching something like that.
And yeah, all the culture stuff was really good. I really like
the cast actually that we had. But it's like it's like I got a
bird half baked, but instead of giving me like the raw parts, they
just completely took it away. And I have like a Costco size free sample
of like my meal, and it's like, well, I I kind of
want more of that, but uh, I guess that's just what we get.
And I don't really know where we go from this, Like are we
gonna get an echo season two of five episodes? Highly doubt that, So
it is really really strange. It definitely feels like they've chopped this one up
and just kind of garnished five episodes together and just sunk them and gave them
to us. So it is kind of a weird spot because I did like
aspects to it, but we don't get any time to dive into like really
anything like it. It's it's so strange. You know, I've been playing
Boulders Gates she had for decades that we just talked, Oh, we'll get
into all the characters because it doesn't take long to get into that. But
you know, I've been playing Bouldersgate and when I first got it, I
got the two hour free trial, and that's what this felt like, where
it's just like my time's up and that's just it, I guess. So
you know, I did give them my credit card to get the full game
so I could keep playing, but fortunately I can't do that for Echo.
So very very strange. Uh one, I don't feel like super super strong
if I like pass or fail this one, because it's just such a weird
anomaly to like compare it to I've never seen a show like this before,
maybe like a super mini series, but nothing that's like connected to an entire
universe, right like that that the MCU is so very strange. One.
It's unfortunate because I really did actually want to like this a lot. I
really really like You'll to remind me the main actress's name, but Maya she
was, She's fantastic. I really really like her in this. I'll call
a Cox saying on I'll get the full pronunciation, because I feel like I
I liked her quite a bit in Hawkeye, but getting the whole like just
diving in from her perspective. I liked it even more, like just seeing
her, you know, being being the spy type character, but also just
her character moments. I I liked it enough that I really really wanted more.
So Alka Alka Cox, Alka Cox. Yeah she was great. Yeah,
this is her. She's only done. I didn't realize this echo was
like her first role. And then I don't think she's done anything else,
so I think, oh, wow, pretty impressive and I'd have to check.
But like she's probably has like under five credits, so it's like they
got pretty lucky there as far as just finding a Neil A. Hayesack somebody,
Yeah, absolutely. I really hope you can see what comes next.
And I don't know what's gonna happen with that though, but I don't know.
I'll pass along there. Oh hmmm. I consider myself a man that
likes a lot of things. He started the Fists started one star review.
I feel like I've read this one star review, but I feel like Fist
would say that same sentence, Oh man, it likes a lot of things
that goes on. And that being said, like I think that this show
really struggles to capture its its own identity of what it's trying to do,
and it gets lost in transition. And yeah, it's just it's it's a
shame because I think that there is there's a lot of things here that could
have had potential. It could have made it a really engaging, much more
engaging story. And you know what, I'm gonna hone in here, all
your listeners, I'm speaking directly to you right now. I'm sure there is
one, one, two, three, four, maybe even five of you
that really liked this show, maybe more than five. And that's okay,
wrong with that, nothing, nothing wrong with that. I just think for
me though, there were things that just weren't driving well. That first episode
was excruciatingly messy. I was trying to keep up. And the only reason
I was able to, like really kind of like keep up is Madison was
like, oh, like what's going on here? I'm like, like,
I don't know exactly, but like I've managed to figure it out. Because
it was so choppy, so messy that first episode. I'm not a fan
of it at all. We'll talk about that. They made a choice,
Yeah, they made a choice. And so as things progress, it's just
character decisions were not making sense to me. Certain things were going on,
and I just I don't know. I like how you put that, Travis,
Like, we're just like I don't know, how did you say that
again? Like she's like an it's just an avenger and she's going about our
business. How did you word that sentence? Again? Oh? I don't
even know. I just know that she was she wanted to be the queen
at one point in the show. Yeah, because she said, well,
we've had a king, how a queen? And we've seen many shows sopranos
breaking bad word. It's like, okay, the main character is a villain,
you can do that. And even the writers before like, oh Maye
is a villain, she's not a heroes damn whatever. Fuck because then in
episode three it's just like we're like, there's nothing. I'll wait till spoilers.
But I was not. I was not sold on that concept of her
saying that. But again, the things that they were they were culturally going
into was really really interesting, and I thought that there was again that potential.
I will say there was one scene that was literally a carbon copy of
the Assassin's Creed movie that I thought was kind of peculiar and I'll highlight see
that is so okayeah, yeah, like so what any you recommend this?
I already said my things. I probably wouldn't recommend this unless you're already watching
it, like I think the people that are gonna watch it will. But
even if you're a lucid Marble fan, I think you could skip this and
just watch the end credit because that will set you up for what's next and
you're good to go. It's it's tricky because, like like I said,
this is my only like ver like experience seeing like an ASL. Yeah ASL
done like just in media like this, So I feel like if someone was
like curious about how that could be done, I would definitely recommend it for
that reason. But for like MCU stuff, definitely not for a good story,
definitely not like even even like the culture stuff. I think it is
good there, but they don't really fully dive deep enough that you like really
learn like a big big thing about that culture. So it is tricky.
I think it's very few and far between that I would make that recommendation,
especially because there is just so much content out there right now, Like I
could definitely just point people in other directions like I'm not even caught up an
Invincible. I would love to be watching Invincible over over this. You know,
It's funny. At the end of the very first episode, they just
like show you glimpses of the entire series. I'm assuming to just keep your
interest in what's to come, knowing that there there is some action in here,
Like even if I saw that Iam and like, all right, that's
pretty much the whole show, I think I'll just move on to the next
series. But you know here we are reviewing it, so I definitely I
don't know if this is really much of a spoiler, but the vast amount
of people that knew how to sign, I thought that. Again, I
think the signing representation was fantastic, but it was just interesting how many people
actually knew how majority of them were family except for like two people, and
that one of those people were her best friends she grew up with. So
I think there's one character where I was like, oh, you know how
sign but like all of them were a cousin, an uncle, a grandma,
right, so they grew up with her, So you would have to
learn, like if your daughter had that, I imagine your family would learn
to sign, right, and like her mom too, like was death,
wasn't she so like just the family like death? Yeah, yeah, even
because her I guess echo Grandma says that she learned it for her daughter.
Yeah, yeah, I like to. There's kind of like certain characters,
you see, they kind of do it differently, where some would just sign
and not speak at all, and then some would like that one guy who
would like speak very clearly, like just as if he's talking or signing,
like there's no difference, and some people would like just kind of slightly whisper
it. And I just feel like there's some good nuance there, Like how
all these different characters, you know, however they learned that language, they
kind of all have their own lens of which they do it. Do you
do you think Daredevil could learn how to do sign language? I guess you
could, right. No, Well, if he could, he could learn
to he could learn to, uh perform it, but not perform it,
and he cannot echo locate can do this. He's pretty powerful where he can,
like since those hearts heartbeats and whatnot, So maybe you could. I
don't know. Yeah, Travis, you were asking about the recommendation. Well,
so you said you don't think we'll see Echo gain do you mean like
Echo season two or do you mean like at all the MCU, likein she's
a done character show for sure. Not It's tough because this character does represent
things for a few people. So I don't want to because I don't want
to get umped in with the red eye thumbnail people and be like, oh
yeah, because it's woken, we're diversity. So I think she's good to
have there. But I just think while we're in a era where I think
they should get rid of a lot of MCU characters, Echo is one.
So maybe we will see her again because you could see her in an episode
here there, But to have a big role to be like, let's say
they redid Defenders and stuff, it's like, I just don't know if you
bring this character around. But I don't know. Miss Marvel was not watched
by many and they still did, right, so maybe I'm around. But
Echo, like this concept I think is definitely down. But at the same
times, who knows. We got a new Captain America. We haven't seen
him for like nineteen plus projects, so it's like if we haven't seen Sam
in that long. It's like, when do we see Echo again? You
know, yeah, I could. I don't know what the numbers are on
this, and if, of course, if there's like development issues of production
whatnot, that would inflate the cost, but I can't imagine this is a
very expensive show, So maybe that could be an incentive for doing more seasons.
I don't if I had guess right now, I don't think we'd see
another season, but I think we'll definitely see the character again. And so
that's kind of where my recommendation lies is like right now, nah, don't
go watch Invincible season for whatever they're on and be with Kirkland, you know,
catch up on that and wait and see, like maybe maybe Echo is
in Daredevil in a more substantial way than Daredevil is in here, and maybe
that'd be like, Okay, it'd be kind of fun to go back and
know more about that character because you get the origin story stuff in here,
and you get other world set up things. But I don't think there's many
things that you couldn't just get from a quick YouTube of some key moments.
And I don't know if you were like big action set pieces like well,
not that they're big in this show necessarily, but you could even just watch
a couple of those, so I guess maybe if anyone is somewhat curious,
I'd say watch the first two episodes and you'll know if the last three are
going to be in. But then at that point you're already going to like
halfway through, so you could just see it to the end. But I
guess that makes the recommendation a bit easier because it's not too long as far
as so it's like it's one Lower the Rings movie. Yeah, with credits,
So if you're skipping credits and skipping the previous the opening credits and the
ending credits, that you get through it pretty quickly. Do you think coming
after Loki that causes some grief to the show in terms of popularity and excitement
and whatnot? In what way? Yeah? I just feel like because Loki
and the storyline and just everyone was super hyped on that show, and then
you transition to something like this where it's a lot more low key, not
low key, but more low you know what I'm saying, Just kind of
like more simmered down and much more like a down to Earth's kind of story,
and it's very different from what Loki is and do you do you guys
think that maybe after everyone's hyped on just how that finale was in Loki season
two transition to this, it's just like, ah, you know, I
kind of wanted something more. I think unless you put out a movie the
quality of Avengers Endgame, no matter what comes out before, it doesn't unpack
what people watch this, and I think especially hardcore people, once they start
to hear about how much Fisk and Matt aren't in it that much, I
think right away people deter more, which I'm fine with. I'm not one
of those guys like, oh, yeah, why isn't they Like I get
why they're in there the amount they are, but no, I think you
would do pretty much what it's done, like what it would do barring the
MCU being a better place. I just think most people will skip this because
it's just especially we know Fisk is gonna be and Daredevil, so it's not
like, oh, this is my one chance to seeded an offer again.
It's like we always come in. So yeah, I think just fills in
a gap a little bit. Yeah, As someone who didn't like Loki season
two, I don't feel it. I don't feel like on word, even
if I did, I don't think that would really impact how I felt about
this. But I don't know, maybe if it just came out like a
week ago. But yeah, it's it's been a few months of this.
Plus we got what if you know that was Anicettle, true palate cleanser,
Tati count count your answer. We're watching Halo season two at the same time
as this. Does it Does it boost your feeling? Not it? Goo?
Or bring it down? Fuck? It's tough because you haven't seen it
yet. You know this could be a banger. It is tough, but
like based on what I saw on the trailer, like it would bring echo
down. Okay, little the posters too, posters of any effect, posters
another trigger and bring that up. Yeah, okay, all right, So
now we're going to take our first break and then we'll be getting into spoilers.
So if you've not seen the show, bow out and if you don't
care, then you just stick around. So we'll be right back. And
we were back before we get in that tear. Where can they find everything?
We do? Like I said, we got Golden Dieks happening, we
got the movies, drafts, we got the video game Draft next week and
Golden Geeks this year is special because we're doing our MC one, we're doing
our regular film once and then we're doing it like a send off to the
DC. We're gonna do the whole DC because DC is dead. So we've
got three Golden Geeks happening this year, which if you joined Patron, you
get to vote on the winners. You get to decide all these So where
can they find that stuff? Taylor at Lease don't find us mee interconnection keepers
as he has our home base. Keypers casters are Twitter, keek verses or
Facebook. Wow. Yeah, Like I said, I feel like what we
do? You really want? Support us? Get stuff exclusive early ad free.
You get about three exclusive episodes a month. You get retro sometimes like
months early, sometimes a year early, and you just got to add free
stuff. Hitdle with the Patreon. We would very much appreciate that, all
right, So let me just hit a couple of these comments because we might
go off some of them. But Super Mike says the flashback episode cold opens
were some of the best parts. Pretty creative. Yeah, I like those,
We'll get into them, but I wish there was a bit more of
that at the end of the phase you could quite possibly forget it exists.
I think, unfortunately, that's gonna happen with a lot of the Phase five
stuff. I was forgetting stuff about the show already today and I had just
seen the show two days ago, So I don't think it's very memorable unfortunately.
So question question for you guys, if if I can take us somewhere
at the start here, is how do you guys feel about like just all
the time jumps and eras we go to, because we have, you know,
flashbacks to Hawkeye stuff and a lot of just like seeing those scenes again.
I guess just yeah, recapping for anyone who forgot or hasn't hasn't seen
that before. But then we have like a moment we have like five months
later jump in the first episode. We have all these like flashbacks to these
ancestors ancestors and whatnot. I just feel like it's kind of going all over
the place. Sometimes even one episode, you'd be in like three different time
eras at some time at some moments, and you know, it's a pretty
short show. So just felt maybe a bit too whiplashy for me. And
I think that was maybe one thing that affected the pacing, But yeah,
where do you guys at with that? I definitely agree. I think like
if you have five episodes, you really really have to limit your your usage
of those flashbacks. I think some of them are necessary, like even the
ones that go way back to I think it said like twelve hundred AD or
whatever the date was. Like, I think it's fine to show show like
maybe a character in there with getting like the Echo power, whatever the hell
it's called. But just like the whole sports event, the situation, I
thought that was going on so long, and like I can't remember what episode
that was, in episode two or three maybe, but like those two yeah,
yeah, it just felt very very long. And looking back on it,
it's like, man, I know, I know we didn't really have
time in general to dive into things, but maybe we could have had that
conversation between Echo and Kingpin on why he killed her her father, right,
So I thought some of that stuff was was overused, and then some of
like the back and forth was a little bit used. But like like I
said, like like the the twelve hundred and eighty scene, I could have
it really really quickly. Maybe the first episode show that moment. I didn't
really love it, but it's a cool little tale of talking about the origin,
so that's kind of interesting. And then I think showing the Hawkeye stuff,
I think it's somewhat important to show it in here just in case someone
didn't see it in Hawkeye, because you do need to not kind of know
the relation there and why she is affected, I guess by that moment and
how her dad did die. Like if you didn't see that in Hawkeye and
you just didn't get it here, I think you would definitely be lost.
So but yeah, I definitely agree with you comparing it to like the ratio
of flashbacks to actual showtime, Like it actually is a decent percentage when you
think of just how little screen time there is in general of the show.
It's a three and a half hour show in general. Yeah, I agree
for the most part, I think, yeah, I think that showed as
a classic Disney blessing. It need to be longer because I think you could
do more at the flashbacks. I think they worked like fine enough. I
think the first episode I'm very torn on because they are trying to make it
this spotlight right, and you need to their pitches. We want to make
it that anyone can watch us about having the rest of the show, so
you have to show some of that Hawkeye stuff. But I just think it
was very clunky the way they did it. So I'm like a very fifty
where I'm like, I'm all down for kind of retelling her origin story here,
but it feel like we would get a scene, we get like a
five minute portions of a flashback scene, and then we get Hawkeye footage and
it's like one or two minutes, but like there's like a massive jump,
like we just go from oh, we get some scenes of her and Kington
together to like her and the Alley shooting him. You know, it's just
like, man, we're So that's where it's like that first episode. I'm
not as negative as some people because some people are like, it's just a
recap episode, how lame. I don't think it's that. I just don't
think it's smooth and the rest of the series. I'm some of that.
Personally. Would have just taken out most of the Power stuff, especially I
was not a fan. We'll get there in the finale of how Final Fight
went, the Powers everything, so I would take out even though visually it's
cool, Maybe you just do one episode that's all about the uh that stuff
in the past. I think they did at the beginning and throughout just to
kind of keep you like a mystery of like, oh, what's going on.
But like when Echo finds out in episode four that her mom had powers
or something, it's just it's not like they feel like they're trying to make
it like, oh my God, like we come from this power. It's
like it doesn't feel like any reveal. It doesn't feel like a big miss
three. The first fifty seconds of the show are showing you these people with
power, so it's like, well, clearly our character is gonna have these
powers, and I don't like these powers. I don't know. These powers
were pretty confusing. Yeah, they're pretty lame. And I guess said the
don't kill ititis was in here where it's just I got these people dead the
rights and I'll rant about that later, but yeah, I think I would
be more for it with a longer run time, but we don't have that,
So they should have cut that and a lot of stuff out and replaced
it with other things. In my opinion, So yeah, that first episode
it was it was not my favorite, just the way they were jumping around
so much and transitioning, and it just felt accelerated. I did not.
I just didn't like it. And I feel like, yes, it does
have to serve as that like catch up for people that maybe haven't seen Hawk
I. So you get to see it and it gives you a very very
choppy explanation as to how Echo got to where she is now, especially because
we get a little bit more filler as well with and just know how Kingpin
kind of took her under his wing and whatnot. But yeah, there's just
there's so much going on that I just felt it was it was still convoluted
and confusing to kind of line it up. The flashbacks, I didn't mind
them as as much as I thought I would, though It's it was cool
to kind of see the the think of the culture and just the different generations
and the carrying on of this power kind of going through. I definitely don't
mind the power as much. I think that it was confusing how they could
access it, Like do they have control of it or is the ancestors that
just pick a moment when you need to use it or I'm not sure how
it gets really focused when you well, like you said, Travis, we'll
talk more about it later, but just to kind of touch upon it,
I'm kind of getting exhausted with the whole all the whole family kind of helps
you out, helps the hero kind of thing, because like Blue Beetle did
it, I feel like Miss Marvel has some of that too, and I'm
just not really driving with the shazam. Yeah, so I'm really kind of
getting over it now, so like leave it to guardians and that's like,
I'm with you. I'm so over this trope of all the family super too.
It's like I don't give a shit, Like it's just like I did
not just need to see her grandma like punting guys across the room. I
didn't because right away Echo, because like she doesn't feel special at all anymore.
Right away it's just like, okay, and you all the family special.
I don't want that the show's called Echo. I don't need her family
to have these powers because then it's just like so her grandma could have got
these powers and taken down Kingpin and their goons. It's just like again like
I don't care. We'll talk about now we're in here. Didn't I feel
was great? And it just sucks because great performance here, but like that
wasn't a problem Hawkeye write. But it's the same thing why they keep jobbing
out this fucking character. They had him lose the Kate Bishop first go around
and then like he got sewn the headset and in that fucking Hawaiian suit.
I know it's from the comics, it doesn't matter. So those Midnight Angels
from Black Panther and those suck too. But this idea of like again,
he has everyone dead to rights with guns and this family just whips their gun
yards ass. He's on his knees and I'm all fine for like, I
like the scene where she goes back sends back to when he's a child.
That's all good stuff like that. I was laughing because I shouldn't have laughed,
but just he's like he's just like Io, but his acting there was
pretty sad. Yeah in the bedroom too. As soon as soon as it
went to that, she's like he doesn't even look young there. I'm like,
I don't think he's supposed to be a kid. It's total extra wig.
Yeah. No's just the way he's like panicking and like freaking out,
Like I don't know what it was like, I know he's trying to sell
the moment because it's like it's like it's traumatic for him. But he's like,
I'll push back big time there because it's it's echo putting the feelings of
a ten year old boy and a girl man's body. And that's why I
thought was like perfectly done there, because he's just freaking out and like,
and that's I'm surprised, Dylan, you're not for because I feel like we
got that in the Daredevil series too, where he would act very immature,
like a big baby at times. So I just felt like this fit exactly
for what he is. They should have put like a kid in that scene.
I feel like that you can go you go in second. Yeah,
I don't know if I can recall a moment from Daredevil enough to make that
comparison, just because it's been so long, but uh so, yeah,
maybe maybe that's like an apt comparison. That's what they are going for there,
but it just it just came across as very cheesy to me. But
I think it also is just and this is another note I had which kind
of kind of rolls in here that to me, like as much as I
love Donofrio, like he Kingpin does not have the gravitas that he does from
those Marvel Netflix shows, just because of the whole everything surrounding it, and
so this character is just not that engaging to me. I like some of
the conversations that him and Echo have in isolation there, but in terms of
Kingpin being this big scary figure, it's not coming through at all, unfortunately,
And so when you get to certain moments like that too, it's just
he's just not working for me. And so obviously I have faith that can
turn it around because I really like Hawkeye, but obviously my favorite part of
Hawkeye is not Kingpin's appearance there. So I'm really hoping that we can turn
it around with his appearance in Daredevil, and like, he's in this a
decent amount, and I don't hate all of this stuff by any means,
but yeah, there's a couple of parts that just came across as cheesy or
just didn't totally fit with what's going on, because Kingpin's a character that I'm
so used to is being like a very mature type of character, and we're
doing this show, but the only mature part about it is like the blood,
which gives him like the r ratium. But in terms of like all
the like, I don't think a single character like swears in this show,
you know, like it feels very Pg. Thirteen, with the exception of
like, yeah, the odd person gets shot in the head and it's slightly
brutal, but other than that, like they very easily could have cut around
that stuff and had this not be Marvel Spotlight. In my opinion. The
other downside tooth King fin I found in piggybacking what you're saying there, Dylan
that he his his fear factor comes from other people saying, oh, he
wiped out everyone, like I'm I'm old and alone. Why do you think
that is because King King wipe to everyone I love? Is like, so
that's the only fear we're getting is based on what other people are saying with
words. The only action we got that was fearful of Kingpin wasn't beating up
the ice cream man. That's a that's a great point because obviously, like
you know, me and Travis and people have watched Daredevil can like bring in
that information, even if for me it's a few years old at this point.
But yeah, for you guys, like you're just being told everything you're
not shown anything with Yeah, you're right that there is that ice cream shop.
But once again I feel like that maybe it didn't quite have the impact
it should have, just because Wow, it was like a trailer thing.
I kind of have seen that before, so when it popped up in the
show wasn't as surprising. The short time that I was watching Daredevil, I
got to see him completely fox him up with the car door, and that
that's like stuck with me on like the fear factor with him, so like
I have not even seen all Daredevil, but still that scene and like the
level of fear that he can do. It's, yeah, every time you
close the doors like jump in, Yeah, he turns in a little kingpin.
But like but like that one moment was enough for me to like think
so highly of like the fear factor that this character can bring, and Hawkeye
definitely did not have it for me. I quite chuckled at that appearance,
and I was really looking forward to just seeing what it could be like here,
especially knowing that it is r rated because I've seen him suck up someone
with the car what else is gonna fuck someone up with? And the frozen
the frozen tree? Yeah, guy, yeah, like even that, like
it it felt very PG that someone like edited blood on afterwards, like like
like it didn't seem too graphic overall. And yeah, I'm completely agreeing.
I'm completely in agreeance with what you're saying there, Dyling. I've just I
really am not loving this, uh like this version of Dared Devils so far,
because he's not bringing that gravitas. And that's just like even in even
in Spider Verse, like he's he's like, you don't have so much time
with the character, but man, he fucking kills Spider Man and he's so
scary, just like the way that he he waddles around with his giant figure,
like he just brings so much energy. I was gonna say energy,
so much fear maybe to the room that he enters, and really have not
had that yet and that that was a big disappointment because he was in every
episode but one in this in this show, so I really really was hoping
for more of that. So he was, but it's like for like what
Mike says, it's like a cup of coffee, Like that's the problem.
And that's that's where I will push back when some people go, oh,
well, you know there's no Kingpin. Yeah, because it's my show.
But it's like, I still feel like the Daredevil season one in three were
Matt's show, but Fisks still had a big role and you can make him
a character. And that's one thing I don't like, is like, oh
well, because it's my show, just has to just be a her.
You can have multiple characters have a spotlight, and she still be is the
one that is the main focus, that rais all up brings all together.
And that's the problem here that Fisk is just it's a cup of coffee.
He's around a little bit. And that's why I was trying to say it
the fear factor. It's like, Okay, so in Hawkey he gets shot
and the only reason he lives one they don't explain how he survived a gunshot
to they had He's just fine, but like he just survived because like a
fluke. Okay, And in this one he survives because Echo lets him walk
away. And I don't really understand why she lets him walk away, as
she clearly wanted to murder him. I know she sees his pain and all
this stuff. That doesn't matter. He still killed your dad. He's done
all these terrible things, like I didn't buy for a second, Like I
don't know why they're obsessed with this, because I think they did this in
Hawkeye too. It's just like have a distraction and let Kingpin at least get
away this thing of like letting him walk away. So it's like he's been
shaw in the head. He lost to Echo's grandma very easily, and they
just let him go back to his car. What is there to fear about
this guy? Like he most times we've seen him, he loses. It's
just like I don't care if he's gonna become mayor he's just gonna lose it.
That too, like cool, he's like on top of that, you
additionally have the majority of the confrontations where Echo is like having the one on
one with him, it's him like, oh, just kill me, put
me out of my fear, like either like she's and she just leaves him
like kill him. Yeah, and that's my issue too, Like I'll go
around to mine in a second. But yeah, it sucks because for me,
I solve zero problems with the performance of Donofrio, But like it's just
it's what they're giving him. So I really hope dared devil can turn around.
But to me, because to me, it's like a one strike,
two strike three straight, like this is I'm get so excited about the idea
of yeah, king Pin is the Aspiderman four villam but it's like if they
keep this up, it's like the interest will not be there other than you
know, don to keep calling Donafrie off for an oro is like I'm happy
for him, and I know what they give him will be solid wise him
like performing it, but it's it's really disappointing. And that's where it feels
like Netflix light again. But that's why even with the Maya Fist connection,
I feel like we don't get that much because he's in the show, but
it's lots of flashbacks. He's gonna come back till the end of episode three
where he pops up at the trailer right and it scares him and everything.
So they go to sit down and I messaged it because he was around the
same point I was at the time, and I was like, this frustrated
me so much. Where he's like, oh, it's Sunday, we do
our Sunday dinners and she's like it's Thursday, Like oh, well, you
know, it's been a while and you know, get the wine and you
know they do the wine poison and then they sit down and he said,
I want you to come back, and you got lots of the think about.
He gets up in here cookies first, and then she says, no,
oh, I don't want to go like the wine. And then he's
like, I want you to come back, and uh, I'll be waiting
for you. He gets up and leaves. I thought, like, I'm
like, oh, we're about to get a solid ten to fifteen minute dare
like something about these characters get down to brass tacks and they've even cheated and
brought this great tech thing of He has his ipiece so he doesn't have to
sign, and she like they can understand each other without signing. It's perfect.
And they talk about nothing. They talk about literally nothing for this dinner
scene. And why does Kingpin want her back after trying to kill him?
Yeah? Why does Echo not want to kill him anymore? Why will Kingpin?
Why does he feel the need to kidnap the entire family at the palou
to get her back? Like these none of these motivations or character choices make
sense with these two. Like I was so frustrated with the last half where
they're just doing things for the sake of Saturday Morning Cartow type of action,
because I just feel like Fist would go, Okay, you're not gonna join
me and have her killed? Why does he care? Why does he go
after the fan? Like, why does he put himself at risk at all
doing any of this? Like what is the like, what's the deal?
I don't I feel like by that point it's although he even like says like
I'm the one that killed your father, and like it is like that big
climactic moment, it still feels like like he doesn't really want to kill her
or anything. It's just like come back to me or put me out of
my vincery. Like he just seems like I don't know this this beaten dog
that just keeps going back to his own or being like echo in this situation
and like more things to worry about than just I know. I know that
that that that was driving me insane, Like he's just in this like small
town New York is just running free. I feel like he's supposed to just
have like an iron grip and all of crime and all of New York,
like he is the Kingpin and he just he's he's on a vacation. I
guess he's on a sabbatical and he just seems so wimpy. Oh yeah,
yeah, that's why does she not ask about the dad? Dylan? Wouldn't
you want to know why someone Canada she killed? I would. I would
love to know what one thing I do like And I forget if it's during
that dinner scene or if it happens. I think it happens later on actually
when she calls him out for using that device to talk to her, and
she's like, you didn't even bother to learn this, Like you just got
this device and staid and that just made him so that made him have like
a little hissy fit. So I like that part that comes out of all
of it. But yeah, you're right that there's definitely a few plotfors man.
I really feel like I hope that Kingpink goes all of Daredevil, like
whatever, season one without losing a single fight, you know, just gain
in power. Like I just want him to sit somewhat in the background at
this point and like send other people out to do his bidding. But yeah,
like as you're saying, Kirkham, like I guess through this whole series
here, I guess from the end of Hawkeye to now and even during Hawkeye
that we don't really know what he's doing, like what his goal is it
because you know, to I guess we could I don't know if we want
to talk about postcards. But it kind of comes over here where it's like,
you know, we have the Mayor thing getting set up here, which
I guess wasn't too exciting, just because we kind of saw this coming,
not necessarily maybe as a post credit scene, but even I think we did
talk about that in Predictions, so we kind of see this coming. But
it seems like until that he's seeing this random news show or these two characters
talking that is this is not something he had considered or his building towards or
was working towards. I was like, what has he been doing in New
York? Is he just hanging out? Like I kind of forget what some
of these plot points are in Hawkkey, because I know he lost you know,
some of his people there and he got shot in that he was gone
for a few months and all that. But it's like, yeah, this
whole plan for Mayor doesn't seem like this was like some big grand plan in
a Thanos or a Kang Start way of like building up to this moment.
It's more just like, oh, man, I watched this news news program
that really inspired and now I'm gonna run for president because they need a brawler,
they need a fighter. I also felt like all the dialogue there was
so cheesy, and I don't know, maybe that's very indicative of what those
news shows are, like like a Fox News or something I don't really watch.
I don't know punch that kind of stuff, So maybe that is how
those those kind of newscasters and personalities talk on his coaches. But it felt
particularly cheesy to me. It just felt like they may as well say,
like, we really need Wilson Fisk to run. Yeah, they described everything
about him. We need someone with white suits. We need someone he'll his
father with a hammer, someone that would just hammer this town down. Oh,
I think it's great. Is ever a nice cream someone that, yeah,
someone will kill his niece's father, but want to still be friends with
the niece, like someone who it almost sounds like me. Yeah, and
I'm interesting because we talked about this news where like they've said that the Marvel
Netflix stuff is Cannon and like you're not just touch for you guys, but
like he's like I know, like he's known, had done some bad stuff,
And I get I know people are gonna make the Trunk comparisons, but
it's like Trump's still never been like arrested, put in prison for anything,
where king pinhasak a few times. So yeah, I guess you know a
new Year knew him. But I guess that's just the problem where that back
half it just feels so just lost, like we don't know really what may
is up to because this whole thing start. And that's where, like Courtney
said something, I think if this was a longer season, it'd be great
if she episode two she drops that line, we've had a king as signed
for a queen. It'd be great if she was slowly starting to take over
build up and he shows up like hey, like this is my territory,
like a full Walter White, like like you know you shot me. You
know I love you, so I'm not gonna come after you for that,
but you gotta stop doing this stuff now. Are we gonna come after you?
But it's not. He just wants her to be back for something,
like just for Sunday dinner's cool, but like again, so she's saying Kingpin
is a criminal, he's killed many people. So in episode two she's saying,
I want to be the Queen. So she wants to be the female
version of Kingpin. But by the end of the series, we're supposed to
treat her like a hero, like we're rooting for her, like when she
gets her leg back and her grandfather's like, I want you to wear this
to represent the community. Why so when she's curb stomping like people that owe
her money, like, it was so weird this pivot of the first two
episodes she maybe wants to be the next Kingpin and they just drop that because
Kingpin comes back and now she's like a hero, not a hero. So
that was my problem too, that they never made that jump from oh,
she is at a villain anti hero to someone we should root for. It
was just this really weird gray area character where we're just supposed to be kind
of fine with her killing innocent people because she found like her ancestors and it's
like, oh cool, Like no no direction for her as a character and
growth. I was I was gonna say, before we drift too far with
Echo. I have one more Kingpin question here. Okay. There there was
a scene, I think it was episode four where they're having their Sunday dinner
and the translator was doing a signing for Kingpin and I don't know if I
missed something, but the translator was. Kingpin's like, you're dismissed, and
the translator walks out and he's like, I won't tell anyone, and then
it gets capped and then killed. What why? It's because she she knows
too much. Oh, because she's been there the whole time in that like
and it is very reduced, but it's supposed to be that she's been there
the whole time, literally probably telling Echo, hey go do this, go
kill this person, stuff like that. So that's what it's like. She's
literally given Echo like death orders like bounties, and now it's like, hey,
you're done, we're now. He doesn't need Like Jesus, he couldn't
be note and give it. He does now. But now maybe that's when
he got his tech in the mail. He's like, yeah, I don't
need the trance anymore. And now and that's the jump over where it's like
right before Hawkey, where she's like a leader of the group, right,
so she like gets her own people on her sands, SI stuff like that.
So I still think it's like, I guess, yeah, you need
the tech because, like you, fist doesn't know signs, so he's still
always gonna need somebody there. But the Hammer Industries tech probably, Yeah,
he does know a little sign she says that, but he does know like
a few well just like blows up in her eye. Classic camera tech.
That's how he gets her that that death scene though, like that's something that
I feel like that's a kingpin sort of thing to do, and that was
about very limited to me. Yeah, Okay, as soon as I saw
the sheet, I'm like, oh my god, we're going for you.
I'm gonna see the Dexter sheet. Yeah. I was gonna say, oh
yeah, just uh before I forget, I wanted to mention when you're talking
about like the whole echo uh motivation, like the whole queen dynamic like that.
I think that's the very first episode, right, like when that happens
when she's dropping that line, or maybe the second episode. It's really early
on the show now that when she's talking to the gut because she no it's
a second the second episode. No, it's a second episode because she does
the whole thing on the train and that's when she because he says, don't
get involved in this stuff, she does, and that's when she's like maybe
it's time for like a queen instead of a king. And it's kind of
like the oh ship, you know, So like yeah, like that's like
really in the show. I'm like, Okay, this, like this is
gonna be the show. This is gonna be these five episodes. She's just
gonna, yeah, like be dismantling Kingpin. I've seen her already like destroy
one weapons pack, and like what else is she going to be doing the
show? That is literally the end of that, like like that is the
end of her whole takedown Fisk whole situation, because I I feel like from
that point on, like she's just she's just kind of like trying to find
herself and like like trying to avoid past friends and family in the town.
Like it really has nothing to do with bringing down Fisk at all. It
just just kind of dead at that point though too. Remember when she goes
to the Queen, he's dead. So I was so excited to just see
this, like Big Master plan on how she's gonna be either just taking down
his empire and then like starting her own or whatever it might be. But
like she becomes a criminal, it's like, oh, that's cool. Imagine
that a series about she becomes the new villain of like a Marvel show.
It's like, oh, that's fun. But Queen Pin, Yeah, like
give me that show. But it ends in that second episode. Then she's
just kind of on the back foot because Fist does show up later on,
and I mean we've already been talking about those stuff. He's just like,
don't run nast. Yeah, So what you're saying there of like that storyline
being dropped. I think for me where the weakest episode of the Bunch was
episode three. For me, the very middle episode here. This is the
one where we spend like most of the episode at that like skate arcade.
I don't even know what you would call that, just that that that fun
house, so to speak, because I just felt like most like we got
like I feel like they're setting up this character of this the employee that worked
there, uh, and he had like this kind of discount Boyd Holbrook sort
of energy to him too, and he was like he captured echo, and
was like trying to get you know, get this money set up from this
other guy who you know, the classic Russian guy that like no one knows
this actor's name, but you've seen him as a villain and like a million
things before, that guy making his debut in the MCU here. But it's
like, yeah, we spend so much time of this guy. But then
like almost all his dialogue is just where's my money? What am I going
to see that money? When am I gonna get that money? He asks
that question like at least eight times. It is ridiculous. And so this
whole episode is involving these characters that ultimately don't matter and I don't care about
and don't really turn out to be anything other than just like wrote bumps essentially.
And then even that guy like got dies and it's like, why did
we spend any amount of time with him? More like half the much of
the time that we spent with him, And then you have these other like
he's like, I don't know, they're doing this kind of Bonnie and Clyde
thing who his his girlfriends there, and then there's other this third person,
all of them not great acting, very weird characters didn't really add anything,
and then they're all just kind of this one episode arc as well. So
it's very bizarre, and I just felt like that whole episode was a waste
of time in my opinion. But Dylan doesn't that feel like Netflix Stare or
Devil. But when you had ten episodes and those characters would get like a
four to five episode arc, I'm not sure if you you probably won't remember
this as a hard pull, but it's like there's a guy in the first
season, Punisher, who's like a war vet, and it's all building up
to him like turning and being like a sniper. Like he's not the same
those Marvel Netflix shows are not just about Daredevil or Punished Jess, because you
like, there's so many other people in there, and you know, we
talked about a lot of those reviews how some of those characters don't work for
us, and a lot of them do get a ton of screen time.
But yeah, there's usually three or four five I've six standout characters in a
season that you can talk about have a bigger discussion on, but most of
them in this aren't really that other than like it's really Echo and Kingpin.
Then everyone else is kind of just maybe worth a quick mention in my opinion.
So, and this is a guy to me felt like in a Netflix
show, he would have had a four episode arc. But he's just like
we even like the first episode we meet him, he supposedly was like a
bounty hunter like like has his like head to the ground, like ear to
the ground, like what's going on? And it's same thing, like how
adjacent? Because I can't where did they say they were? Do you remember
like the city or the place? Like I was just trying to figure out
how in Oklahoma? It's an Oklahoma, so like how far is that away
from New York? I don't know. I just felt like they're talking.
It felt like it was BVS. Where Metropolis and Gotham City we're like across
the bay from each other. It's like, why is so much of the
New York? They really do make it seem like a quick ty two hour
quick bike ride. Yeah that's not a bike ride. Yeah, like I
just two hours. Like I think they drop a couple of lines of like,
yeah, Fiscus control some stuff here. It's like why is he like
what what does he care about Oklahoma? And that's what it's just like it
felt weird that like supposedly right, Like I'm guessing Kingpin put out a find
mi right, like some sort of bounty and it came back to Oklahoma,
And I guess maybe you'd send it there because that's where he thinks she's going,
So okay, but it just felt like strange. Right away, we
get this guy don't know much, he's working like a bowling skate alley and
he's, oh, yeah, I heard this, bounties on her and stuff.
It's just and even then like nothing happened. She gets away from the
Russian guy gets away from No. I mean, the ending of that whole
sequence is so anticlimactic. They just get up and walk away and leave her
there. And honestly, I didn't like. I could see that on paper
there's maybe good choreography, but I did not like that setting and to me
didn't fit the style of what the show should be. It felt too kiddy
where they're like in the laser tag part, like it's very goofy. They're
like smashing each other into like the claw machines and whatnot. It just felt
a bit too set pc It didn't feel very realistic. And then yeah,
I had that just like climactic ending. So it was like, why did
we do any of this, because I feel like maybe the purpose of that
from a character respected for Echo is to help latch her back on her friend
who she hasn't seen until this moment, but I didn't really feel like we
got a whole lot of that. And then even by the end of the
season that was I was really disappointed by that friendship because even you know,
especially in episode one when they have the flashback of young Maya and she obviously
has this really close connection with her is her cousin, right, and then
by the end of the series, I like they kind of had a comeby,
but that kind of felt like something that would maybe be like the first
half of the show and then their friends again, or if you know that
there's a season two coming then that you would expand that friendship there. But
it's like this was the whole art, the whole idea with this character didn't
really work for me or ad much. And that's what, once again,
the whole impetus of episode three is, which is why that episode is such
a weak week one of a bunch for me, and like what happens is
like who is the guy technically the guy that does when he signs, he
speaks a lot. Who is he is? He just like a family friend,
like another he felt like, isn't it no? No? The younger
guy say, oh yeah, who just pulls out a silence pistol in the
crowd of the finale. Okay, so the uncle. So this is all
happening, right, and they're getting taken down and stuff, and they're in
the skate thing and we established, okay, she was friends with this person,
like whatever, the cousin. They've broke apart, they haven't talked,
and then it's kind of like by I think a few times it's like,
oh, don't tell her, I'm back in town. So that's so cool.
That's why we've seen that storyline before. I'm waiting for the progress.
And then they finally meet back up when this is all going down the skate
park. Their uncle, whoever, this guy that they at least like have
a connection to, he is in the other room bound gay could be killed
at any second, And what does this girl do? Why don't you text
me? Why do you call me? This is the time your uncle,
someone you love, might get killed. And this is a scene we're gonna
do the whole trope of I text you my father passed away. You weren't
there, like what? I hated that, And that's where it just felt
like something was chopped or it just does not make sense for a character that
someone's life his in bounce, and you're gonna be asking why didn't you answer
my text? Like just put that somewhere else. So one that was a
pointless storyline because they just like literally like, oh, you know this stroke,
We're not even gonna show it. And then when they did give us
stuff, it didn't make sense. I instantly did not like this character who
someone's life is at risk, but she's so selfish to be like, why
didn't you email me back on the fifth like man, like your uncle's about
to get his slip fucking throat, Like let's talk about this later. It
was just it was so, yeah, I heard throat. That sounds bad.
I'm gonna slit. Throw the slit. Let's let's take an ad break.
And then Taylor because I I hear him chomping over there, So were
rich and we're right back, all right, Taylor throw her slid, you
know, circle back to So One has sibling that oh that one you're circling
back to. Okay, Yeah, the one off guy with his two lady
friend goons. Hated that out the wazz. That was horrible. The one
scene where the girl was like while echoes in the room and then the girl
was watching like the interrogation like holding people hostage video is so fucking like nuts
not acting on that person too, Yeah, I just I was not driving
with it. The thing that got me was, Okay, they tied echo
up, they left her in the room, totally fair. When they came
back and she was not tied up anymore. They didn't bother to retire her.
They just closed the door and let her walk around. They were scared
of her, weren't they. And then like the whole idea is they can't
but they had a gun. Well still, but they had a gun on
her. They could have like knocked her out or tied her back up,
but no, they left her in the room with the inspector gadget gizmos right,
Like it's just crazy. It was interesting she just told them or yeah,
like they just told her that they can't kill her. But also she
wouldn't have heard that, so whenever, mine my point is invalid. Echo
kind of had her her Peter Ironman moment where she just was left in the
room with some tech and just making a gun, which I was because that's
not really something we saw from her for the rest of the series, Like
that's not really character trait of hers or how you would say. That's like
part and superpower for Spider Man is that he's like a super genius. So
it was interesting that I was in there, but it didn't really feel like
a through line. That's kind of something that feels like each episode is written
by a different person, which I don't. I didn't actually look at how
many different writers we had for this. Uh, this one shows I think
there's a couple. Yeah. One thing I wanted to circle back to because
we we didn't we talked about but didn't talk about it the Powers. How
did you guys feel about the powers? So I kind of like them.
We'll go ahead, please, I said, I did not like them.
I want to hear a positive I heard what Dane heard first, same thing
like, oh no, he said, did not okay, but I heard
kind of like him. I I feel like I was waiting for like because
I really don't know anything about Echo I don't have her Marvel snap card,
I have an experience in the comic books. I don't know anything about her.
I'm assuming that at some point she has some sort of I mean in
the show, because they know they've changed her power. She doesn't have those.
Yeah, I think they've made these very I kind of assumed it was
gonna be a Daredevil situation that she has a power that like just helps her
fight crime or you know, Daredevil can't see see thing, but some sort
of thing. So I was excited to at least get that origin of the
character and and find out like her Peter Parker bitten by the Spider moment,
like I was excited for that. But I did not. I did.
I did not like the way that it was that was done there. So
her comics. So there's two versions. One we're not going to talk about
as the Phoenix Force because funck off, like we know what the Phoenix Force
is gonna give her the Billy she has just as both comics expert martial art
artists hand had hand hand combat a highly skilled acrobat and athlete photographic reflexes and
that probably doesn't have an enhanced stamina. I was waiting for that one.
Yeah, and I just wish, especially this is supposed to This is what
I hate when like, oh, we're gonna do street level stuff. It's
good be dark, it's gonna be gritty. You got the space well for
stuff if you just want criminal guys fighting other heroes. This is a show.
And then you have Echo just like tapping through the fucking force Ghost to
be like shiny hands, and just like I wish they just kept her a
badass. Yeah, it's one of those things where it's like, Okay,
first, I feel like she didn't really like this is an origin. There's
a lot of origin here, but the origin is not for the powers like
a lot of superhero origin things are. So it felt like a bit much
that she could instantly put Kingpin into his like childhood mind. I felt like,
very impressive that you could do this for the power. Like you said,
that's not even the story. It's not like I felt something in Hawkey
I'm coming back Home, because that's like the revelation in season five. That's
like, once she's gone through her character development, the reward is being given
to power, but then it feels cheapen because, as you mentioned earlier,
like the whole family just gets the power at that point, but she's the
only one that actually had to do the work. She was grinding and they
were all just backpack and then they all just get this get this power too.
It just felt like shared. It's like shokemon these days. Even the
power. It's like you do a side quest. The characters just like,
oh, this hat's good, but I don't want and well here you go,
and you're like the story wasn't about getting this happened like, oh I
like having this hat, Like it's such a because episode four is like randomly
all about the power. It's all about it and the Grandma good actress.
I like the scene and the hole back and forth, but it's just all
about like, oh, by the way, you also got superpowers, Like
yeah, what Yeah? So I take it that there's like a healing element
to this ability to plus like the memory stuff, and then maybe just like
it gives you like an iron fist, like an enhanced strength sort of thing,
because otherwise how would that Grandma be, you know, throwing down like
off she's looking for the matrix and the thing. But and so this is
maybe slightly outside the powers, but I I really did like the idea of
because even the name echo right, like going into this, I don't really
know, like no one really calls her that, like why why is that
her name? And I really like the idea that it's like her ancestors echoing
through these generations. I think that's a really cool idea. I think some
of the visual stuff for it didn't work so much for me, some of
the flashbacks where you have the cave one and I think that actually looks kind
of cool, with the exception of like the water. I kind of like
the visuals of that, But then like every time we see a flashback of
that, it's just like these ten people walking very slowly with like some trees
in the background, and that's like all it is, and it's just a
little bit weak, and then they're all kind of like that, they're all
very surface level. But I still quite like the idea of that, And
like when the grandma says that line of the ancestors like echoing through the generations,
I think that was really cool and that makes that like sets up the
name in a good way. That doesn't really connect to the powers so much,
but I like, at least that's that part of it. In terms
of the naming and the theming of it, I think is actually pretty neat,
So that would be like my positive on it. But in terms of
the powers themselves, I don't really understand them. It's kind of like,
for the first couple episodes of Miss Marvels, what exactly are these powers doing?
I don't really understand, And now I have an idea how this hard
light works, but yeah, I don't. I just don't get it.
It's a bit it seems a bit too ambiguous where they can kind of make
it whatever they want to be, or whoever is writing the next project that
has echo in it, they can just like you know, put their spin
on it what they want the powers to do. And I don't really like
that so much. I like it to be more factual, I guess,
but I do want something maybe more interesting than just you know, acrobatic skill
like you mentioned there off her Wikipedia page, where it doesn't seem like she
actually really has any powers normally, so photographic though, that would have been
great. It was like photographic memory. It wasn't memory though, or it
was like photographic reflexes. So I think it's like that sounds very similar to
what like task Masters are supposed to be almost like it's like she could watch
you and know, Okay, Matt's gonna do this, And like I wish
even if they did that of like especially when they kill the sound because of
her lack of hearing you if they just did, like things kind of slowed
down in a set. It's not like Quicksilver but Jack Holmes man, yes,
same thing. Just do just hiden. I don't care hidened senses because
that's the problem with when you get these hand glowing powers. The heroes that
have these ambiguous powers, they just never catch on because like you know what
hallt does. You know what Superman is? You know, even though what
cap is right like the peak of human into like Iron Man, he's a
got in the suit. It's like, what's Echo's powers? Oh well,
her hands light up, she can heal birds? Uh, And like why
isn't her family a part of the Defenders now? You know? Like they
they just they kicked those ass like they kicked all their ass, like it
just yeah, yeah, yeah, oh go ahead, go ahead. I
was just gonna say, when Fisk is running for may or, someone's gonna
get a video of that event that happened It's like, do you really want
this guy running for you? You got his ass handed to him by these
three girls. Is this the brawler you're wanting? New work? There'll be
an ad for the Gramma. Now she moves from Oklahoma to New York and
she's running from me Mayor. Yeah, she's a bigger deal than Echo.
Yeah. The h the powers definitely, like as I said I alluded to
earlier, Like I just I don't know that the causality and just what's what
limitations there really are for them, because at this point, all I can
really deduce is, yeah, they heal birds that she hurts intentionally, and
they can super strength and why not The thing though, when she finally channeled
her powers, I'm gonna pull this up because this is what it's like a
carbon copy of from Assassin's Creed when all the ancestors just pop up and then
that's that's their like their their moments. So I thought, holy shit,
this is this is the exact equivalent is the very that's the movie? Yeah?
Oh yeah, they didn't do it through like I guess yours and more
Ancestor, but I fact they almost did then Rise of Skywalker too, right,
like all the force ghosts are going through raid or power up, and
that's what this is doing. It's just like and even like those two examples
we gave aren't even that earned. And this was even to me just lesser
and that she just because it's just again she's just like learns about this power
and it's it's hers now, you know. I I really wish they didn't
even do the power honestly. I I wish that they kept like without getting
giving her superpowers, like keeping like that echo connection to her ancestors. And
I really wish they just introduced this like borderline myth alag cold type idea,
but like didn't stray over the line that like gave her superpowers. It's just
it's almost like a like a belief thing, like oh, like is she
actually getting is is the bird there like really messaging like to to whoever?
Or is that just like a thing And it could be written kind of either
way. I really wish they went more that direction, because we already have
so many superpowers and or yeah, supers in the MCU that have superpowers that
I think are more relevant in this and this doesn't really boost her character that
much. She's not gonna be destroying whoever the next big bad is with her
with her healing powers or her just pulsing powers or summoning Grandma to kick ass,
like I really wish you. It was almost just like a Black Widow
thing, like I'm totally fine with just see like that train sequence. I
love that moment when she when she gets like on the Bungie cord, she's
in her like tag gear and just like repels down, Like I I'm totally
fine. It's just that's her type of character because we don't really have like
we're starting to lose some of those guys right like like Hawkeye's on his way
out, Black Widow's gone. Like I guess we got Yolena and uh okay,
I guess we get Kate Bishop. But come on, let's let's just
keep getting more. Some of the other agents are gone now. So I
I think it's fine to have that balance of non super characters in the MCU,
and especially if it's the street level stuff too. That's what they talk
about, like, Oh, we're gonna we're gonna do a bunch of it.
We're gonna like the team, that's of course, and then yeah,
but like there's no Claire like there was in Marvel Netflix. Yeah, exactly,
Like and that's where because like with Kingpin getting in the Mayor storyline,
it sounds like they're are going to do Devil's Reign and it is about king
Fin taking over New York. But again, it's just like, especially with
this Kingpin, he's already weak enough. We don't even going against people that
have superpowers. You know, it's like he's like like fuck man, like
he I don't know if I was him day one, you gotta kill Echo.
Where she's like taking it down twice, that has been numero uno.
But did you get the vibe that she was gonna go back to New York
at the end of the show, Because I didn't. She walked in around
the backyard like Treto's family. That's exactly I was gonna say. Yeah,
it's like the end of Fast. Yeah. So I think she's I feel
like she's it's only a short twenty two hour drive, Taylor. I mean
she can quickly have two hours twenty twenty two hour drive. That's what I
said my car. So when she was bleeding out two hours twenty two hours,
she was bleeding out like basically gonna die. In the next two hours,
she drove twenty two hours on her motorbike without sleeping. Oh my god,
what is a town that is a day away? What is he like?
What is he doing down there? Well, to him, it's probably,
you know, twenty minutes on his private jet. That's true. Yeah,
Eleanor he needs Maya now, yeah, these ladies they need to get
his wife and then he'll like have somebody. But the way you say maya
is sounds exactly like the way you say Gya Taylor. It's perfect. I
just can mayan guy a teaming up Defenders too. It's bottle. Yeah,
there's another fucking character. I think she's going back to New York. I
think she's just stopping to say hi, and then she's gonna go back.
I think to take him down, even though she could just fucking because it's
so there's no other character is gonna come to Oklahoma. So if she wants
to exist in the future, she's gonna have to go to New York and
there's gonna be a lot happening there in the next Uh. I hope they
set Spiderman in Oklahoma because there's no fucking buildings for to swim off there,
it's like what do I do, Like, how do I move her?
No way Oklahoma? Then the whole trilogy is something Oklahoma and the yeah,
exactly, it's perfect. Fuck, that's gonna go somewhere. But uh,
it was about her going back to oh like again. But I don't even
know what her goal is because like here's the thing, right, because there
there is a season that may or may not tinker with. Hey, Daredevil
is giving the idea of what if you just kill Kingpin And that's the idea
of like that could solve the re answers, right, And there's the back
and forth and then there's eventually no, I don't do it because I'm the
hero and you get there. We didn't get that with my y. So
I just want to ask you, is like, why didn't she kill Fisk
just because she saw him as a child, went, oh, he had
a tough he had a tough go as a kid. I think it's the
pretty classic thing of just with her character development and her trying to be a
better person, and you know, we have these flashbacks off she accidentally killed
this bird or she almost killed this bird as a child. Her mom has
the healing powers and heals this bird. But yeah, I think she's just
trying to turn a new leaf and stop killing people, trying to change her
ways a little bit. And then I think there's also an element to it
where she shot Fisk in the head. She tried to kill him and he
didn't die from that, and I feel like maybe to her that was a
sign to some extent that that was not meant to happen, potentially something along
those lines. So I just feel like it's maybe not anything special. It's
just that classic character development of her not being the villain anymore, because you
know, that's technically how she started in the MCU. It doesn't feel as
grand as the conversion of like Scarlet Witch becoming a villain or not or Loki,
you know, turning into a good guy, just because of time and
attention to detail and care given to these characters. Honestly, uh So,
yeah, that's kind of where I see it. Se Yeah, I know
it's a simple story, but I would have just loved even that was her
story the whole season, about trying to be better. I've killed I've heard
a lot of this in people. I was on the wrong side. She
even says that, like I was like, I thought, you weren't the
monster, and I wish it's something we've seen before, but sometimes safe it's
just the route to go when it's it's to this extent, you know,
I feel like they're they're poetically trying to parallel the short sequence of when she
shot the bird and then all of a sudden they go to the next where
she's with the mom and the mom heals the bird. I feel like it's
the same thing, just on this grandular scale. She shot, she shot
Kingpin, and then now now here she is, she's he is trying to
heal Kingpin at the end, like the same parallel. Yeah, maybe she
feels like she is gonna thick. What is the order of those events?
So when does she do the mind why? Relative to her walking away?
I guess that must be not the mind white. But when she turns him
back to ten year old, that's right after like before what after what sequence
the burd what scene comes first? We were walking away from killing him or
and the it goes young boy walk away? That's what it goes, young
boy then walk away? Right, So I guess, yeah, to Taylor's
point there, maybe she feels like she maybe didn't cure him from being a
bad guy, but at least says we don't take life right. That's what
her mom told her. I guess I was so worried. She was literally
just gonna like literally heal his mind and he was gonna be a good guy.
I was like, oh my god, don't go down this road.
Professor X style. Yeah, I just swear we better not show, like,
see you're throwing some guys off a fucking building next time we see her,
you know, because that's always the thing they'll do. This Daredevil didn't
do that, but shows will do that. We're like, oh, I
can't kill the name guy. But then like, oh good number two.
Oh yeah, I fucking snapped his neck in front of a crowd of people
and they cheered, you know, like, maya better not kill a single
soul from here on out. Then if she left Kingpin, Kingpin of all
people alive to go back to New York or Oklahoma, who knows. Maybe
he's gonna run from air there too, and maybe I don't know what the
law is. But and it's like that thing again that I guarantee he's gonna
be killing a lot of people directly or through his orders. And now this
completely comes back to Maya not not just ending them right there, like like
she could have saved all those people's Yeah yeah, and I just wish that,
Like I know it sounds bad, but we talk about Fisk, I
just wish he killed one of those family members off. You know, none
of them were that developed, Like who was the same what was it the
fucking tater tots or biscuits? The same biscuits? Yeah? Kill throw out
his slit like kill, Like, I just wish he killed one of them
in front of my st to really show like hey, like you should have
fucking turned out even then, Like I just love like Kingpin his whole like
nightis I'm just gonna sit on this plane and wait and hope that Maya show
up. Like I'm just gonna sit here, just hang out just for a
couple of hours. I'm not doing anything, just hope hopefully she comes around.
And you know it doesn't. Well, he kept baiting it right because
first he was like, I'm gonna be at the hotel, you know,
meet me there. He sits around the ways. Okay, now you came
to the hotel. I'm gonna be at the plane, you know, meet
me there, like he did have that guy that was the Mafia is kind
of sour guy who's on top of the r V just with that phone on
RPG that that was. That was a little cringe, just because yeah,
so cracked shut it up into the sky and like he's like got his hand
on the trigger and then he's like, wait a minute, what's that the
pistol? It was like oops, or does this in one line? And
like he's out in the open. No one's gonna walk by and be like,
why is that? I got a fucking RPG out for like got some
fireworks tonight people. It just felt very like I did like the scene prior
that though, when he's like driving up to the parking lot and the guy's
like, oh, you like need a pass to drive through. He's like
yeah, okay, and then they'd have like that back and forth a couple
times and he just drives away, like you just reminded me, Dylan.
Fuck, this was so cringe. His biscuits they're asking the uncle was asking
Biscuits do you have a weapon, and Biscus like, oh, I got
something, and he drives his monster truck over the two vans full of bews
inside. Fuck you should have sent him aster a fisk. He would have
taken Fisco biscuits, true biscuits too. If he's in the bloodline, he
must it must be like a fucking black panther will kind of thing where all
these people can light up their hands. He's a cousin, right, He's
Bonnie's brother. So I just hope that moved. I hope that doesn't happen
to him, just because, like imagine she's fighting crime, she's powering up,
and he's just somewhere like like having a good time with himself and his
hands are just fucking lighting up, you know, Like I don't think it's
well. I'm just saying, like gonna be inconvenient. Sometimes your lights just
gonna be the best last bust of your life. Entire lower half to heal
himself too, Yeah, me full Daredevil? Should we tell abut dared Em
Murdoch for where he was? So my prediction was fucking off. When I
say three two, I think we also had three episodes, right, I
said, Travis, Yeah, And I was still wrong about I still wrong.
Yeah, Yeah, I thought it was cappen it. I like I
was gonna say, I like the scene, it almost felt like Batman like
popping in out of nowhere, especially from her perspective. I really like the
way that that overall scene was just shot because it's as if it's like her
first time like dealing with that sort of thing. She's just kind of standing
there and then she like just seeing the chaos and then she ends up jumping
in to help out her her comrades. And then yeah, there's this like
not a Cape crusader, but this fucking man with horns horn. It just
pops in throws I don't even know. It's like a Ninja star type thing.
Takes out two of them and just his movements. And I really liked
the fight choreography actually of that scene when they're when they're duking it out and
she kept trying to go for the gun and he just kept like one upping
her and doing flips around. So that was that was fantastic, especially that
it was the red suit that was just that was so awesome. I was
really really big in that. Much better the reds much much better. Yeah,
No, I thought that was a fantastic fight scene that was really really
fun. I think the camera was just moving around like crazy and following it
in a really fun way. Just obviously we saw some of it in the
trailer, but I think, you know, it's not part of her power
set necessarily, but like the brutality of the metal leg when she wants to
throw down with it, just kicking chairs across the room into people's heads is
great. You know, like Kirk when you mentioned earlier, how sometimes you'll
kind of get more from her perspective and will kind of deafen out the sounds
and you have that moment where it even slows down and then you just hear
the neck crack like that was really really great, really beautiful visceral, and
then you have the daredevil stuff like he's in there for you know, one
minute minute there you go. But the best one minute fifty nine seconds of
the season, I don't know. It was a really really fun fights and
you could tell they were maybe trying to do a little bit of the Hallways
fight scene sort of stuff where they've tried to how longer continue a shot you
can see where they obviously not as smooth. Yeah, it was clearly not
as It's not as smooth as like bird Man or something where it's like where
where are the cuts. When do they do that? But yeah, just
really really fun fight scene all around, and honestly, it set a tone
that was not delivered on for us this season, which is maybe something too.
And I mean, I just feel like even across the marketing the trailers
like that, I did not really get the show that I thought I was
gonna get here. Yeah, and like just like that spine crack scene when
she kills that guy, they did like a big emphasis of like you could
hear two heart beats and then all of a sudden, you hear one heart
beat. And I don't know like exactly what a deaf person can hear or
not, but like I feel like you can almost feel like that heartbeat like
in that moment, especially just your own like pulsating just from the adrenaline and
everything. So that's a really good veritable connectivity. The idea of him sensing
heartbeats, that's cool. Well, and they even did that, like I
think that that like people do do that, because they also do that at
the end when the drums are going and she can't hear the drums, but
she didn't feel the vibration of the drums when she's in the pread, so
they kind of parody that not parody that way, but like put them together
to show like there parallel thank you, like you can get certain just like
vibrations and rhythm from things right, And that's what I liked, and that's
why I give him. I go back to a simple story, but I
like when she broke his neck, it wasn't just broke his neck and went
on. She took a couple of beats because clearly you could see this is
the first person she's killed, and she kind of registered that as like oh
fuck, Like I like, this is a step. But then some guy
pulls a gun and that's okay, you gotta snap and go. So that's
why I liked where It's like the stages were set there were Okay, we
want to do that, but they just did the first part of the story
and the last part of Oh she regrets killing somebody and she's gonna stop.
There's just the middle stuff they just left out. But it remind me a
lot of like one of the few good things about the Suicide Squad movie the
original when they said, oh, we want Batman to show up in this
movie, like you're from the goon's perspective of you're just doing stuff and imagine
just Batman shows up. And that's what was cool here where they're just standing
around and all of a sudden, Daredevil's baton just comes and smacks a guy,
knocks them out, and you're just like, oh my god. So
it was a great scene. There's one CG I think I hate where it
must have been reshoot or something. He like falls aground and he like jumps
up really quick. It's just a full on CGI. Charlie Cox like it
just doesn't look right. And I agree where even to me, the Daredevil
Netflix stuff to hide the one shot, I think they were much better at
their sons were just the wall. It goes by like the wall for like
five seconds. That's fine, it's so cool. My only problem again is
I just didn't buy. At one point, he knocks her down and Echo
looks back and he's gone. I don't know why Daredevil wouldn't just finish her
off, not kill her, but just like, why did he leave the
fight? She was down and she got a shotgun. Sure, but it's
like it's Daredevil. He just took out a room full of guys with guns
and everything, so it's not like everyone had knives and she had the one
gun and Matt was like, oh, fuck a gun. I've never dealt
with this, Like, wasn't the job kind of done at that point though,
but why it like I met, like, what was the job?
I just feel like it's the knock out guys, right and criminals? Yeah
one all the guys knocked out, but she's a criminal too, right,
so it's like, knock her out so the police can come get her too,
because I'm assuming these guys got busted arrested. So it just felt very
unhero like for a main hero'll be like, I'm just gonna leave this one
goon down. It's just like, I don't know, especially Matt Murdoch.
He fucking like remember season one, He's just getting into fights with everybody.
He's a messive for him just to be like, she's got a shotgun,
I don't I don't know about this again, it just felt like he's gone
through that development. That's not the same guy anymore. You know he was
having a one night stand with This is a different Daredevil then back in the
day. I don't know. I think this is old. I think this
is a pret shea Hall Daredevil because they're red. I think that's what they're
trying to show us is because remember this is my but it's post Marvel Netflix,
right, is it post or in during I don't know that's the thing,
because it's definitely that's the that's a flash once again, that's all the
timing of yeah things, because it's definitely before Hawkeye because right, she hasn't
gotten her whole her own crew. This is her first mission. So I
think this is like in the middle of well you never watch Darvel. He
just goes to random warehouse and like messes up Echo incompany. Yeah, good
point, I underwear on the well. I don't even know where the hell
would they put this on that official timeline, because like there's just stuff like
what do they do for like eternals? Where do they put that on the
timeline? Did they just put that first? Even though there's parts in present
day? I think they put it where the present day stuff happens because those
are flashbacks. So I think it is after endgame, like in the time
like technically so I jumping all over the place. Yeah, I think this
would easily just say it's season one or something like that, and he just
took down some warehouse once right that had King pengoons and stuff. But again,
I really hope. I do think there it's time for an upgrade,
like change the suit a little bit. I still like it, but I'm
always still team Red. It still just looks so much better than the the
yellow and red. For me, I like just the greater feeling. It
was good, and I even like what I liked is just even the few
little quips that gave Cocks. He just felt like a boss, like in
a boss fight where you're like, fuck this, Like he keeps dropping these
one liners. Because like that's why I did enjoy where I don't think he
should have left that go, Like I feel like he could have still just
knocked Echo out and she escapes the police very easy. I don't know why
she can't just like straight up lose the fight. But I did like that
it felt like he was in control for most of it because he had his
gear and everything, so oh yeah he is. Gadgets were in full swing.
Yeah, and that's one thing that did happen Netflix. So he can
never use his batons because they never had the budget. So like the flying
and stuff, I love. That's very comic, Bookie, and I'm again,
hopefully the rewrites are going good. I'm I'm I really need Daredevil to
be great in a couple of years here. So when he first pops in
like dismantles the people with his his throwballs and then he just kind of like
couldn't like right about to one V one echo there and he like has his
two batons there and just standing there. He totally feels like a boss.
And especially in Maya's position, she's like a fucking level one noviiccee one,
Like yeah, yeah, like what a scary first day, Like man crime
is not for me if this is what I'm dealing with here. Yeah,
yeah, which sucks though because we always tell on Civil War with it not
being cannon where. Uh. I guess Iron Man when he was looking for
people for the team, he just didn't he didn't think Daredevil's good enough,
you know, because he found him. Yeah, he found Spider Man,
but I guess he just looked at Daredevil's footage went now, this guy's not
needed. You know, he's not gonna be a different line guy, right.
I feel like I he doesn't know he's blind Daredevil. He probably knows
if he knew Spider Man was Peter Parker, he knows d Devil's blind.
I also think that he probably would have thought that Matt would have picked cap
side too, So like told Peter, yeah, Daredevil's going with caps.
So what about you, terrycause you've seen like sprinkle here and there you got
she Hulk? What did you think about this Daredevils scene? And were you
disappointed? Was just the one episode? I was very disappointed. It's just
the one episode. I I thought this was fantastic. I thought, he
if this is just kind of like a prelude to what can I expect?
But I get more in that Daredevil show. Oh my goodness, Oh just
wait, you're gonna the Daredevil show that you're getting these scenes, not exactly,
but you're getting these scenes, and I think better in my opinion,
Like there's a couple of long hallway fight scenes that are quite good. So
that that gets me excited, Like it really really does. And I think
the way that they delivered him and this show just you look fantastic, It
really fantastic. So that gets me super super pumped. I was thinking about
the Echo. Director says that the series will feature a number of cameos in
other films. And shows. Well, you got the item cameos. They
showed a hammer from season of Daredevil, so okay, okay, I guess
that's what they meant then, not cameos like characters and whatnot. I think
that's also another thing too, with the viewership at numbers when they're doing this
thing of like, because Dared level was a lot on the marketing, I
think even general audiences have figured out if I just see that character in one
scene in the marketing, he's not in that much. And I think people
have now figured out that, Like they try to make it like, oh,
Daredevil's in this and Kingpin's in an echo. It's like people, no,
nah, this is a trick. They're not in there. And yeah,
well I'm I'm like I said, I'm very disappointed we didn't get to
have more Daredevil. I feel like it would have been fantastic to get just
a little bit more in the present day setting. But why is Daredevil going
to Oklahoma? I guess this doesn't really make much sense. So it wasn't
an Oklahoma. Oh you mean why wouldy okay? Yeah, yeah, based
in New York. Unless Spider Man's going Oklahoma, then Dared Nevil's gonna go
out there too. They're all going, let's take another ad break and then
we'll talk about some more final stuff and then probably close this down. Will
be right back and we're back, dyn. I saw, I saw your
your lips. Yeah, I got to twitch. I just have one last
last note here. Unfortunately it's another negative thing, but that's that's what it
gave me here. The in episode three, the flashback we got there was
this character and it was like a black and white sequence which was first shot,
and like it had like the four x three ratio, like the kind
of the film grain, and I kind of I kind of liked the idea
of that, but overall, like I mean, I'm not a film expert
in terms of, you know, the size of film and all these effects
and whatnot, but this definitely felt like shot digitally and like movie maker black
and white filter over top of it. It did not look very good in
my opinion. I think when it had the four x three in the film
grain, that maybe distorted the black and white, but you can you could
just tell because of the lighting and whatnot. It just it didn't look very
good. And so this whole sequence went on longer than it needed to.
I think it looked cheap because of that, and then even the action of
it was was kind of weak. So that sequence didn't didn't really work for
me. I agree, I liked the idea of it. It felt like
they were trying to achieve like something like a Wanda vision esque where oh,
we're gonna do something different in the show. It just yeah, it didn't
feel right. And I think we've talked about this before because I was,
you know, Patron's Clay's issue when they announced Godzilla in black and white.
It's like, well, it's not shaw and black and white. The lighting
and stuff, and that's why it's say, I've always tinkered with that idea
of like I do definitely one day want to make a GV film that's black
and white. But that's like the one where I know, Okay, I
got to spend days like like, what's the best way to do this is?
Because you're right where it's just they shot it, Okay, here's the
filter. You never want that unless it's like a small portion. That's where
I agree with you, where I just I guess it sounds bad. I
just didn't care. I didn't, you know. Unfortunately, So yeah,
some pros. As far as some stuff, I really liked the visuals of
when they talked about the birthing scene for her mom. That was really cool
in the forest, and they kept doing that shot of the stick in the
mouth, which is like, oh my god, like to use as a
bite down. But there's this one shot where she's trying to give birth and
she's up against a tree and there's rain and stuff like visually, I was
like, in a lot of the colors popping off there. I had mentioned
this kind of all happens that same sequence where I did like the conversation between
my and her grandma. I just thought the acting was good there and I
enjoyed it, and I liked that she was just acting like things were normal,
like oh, you want a snack or whatever. And I think miss
Cox again does a great job acting Wise there feeling like abandon again. They
could have played that more as the hero wise, and I did like the
echo and her mom conversation. I just didn't think it was earned. So
I liked what was there, but it just didn't really ring like true to
me, and much like the Ancestors moment, it just felt like this isn't
earn but I like the actual acting in between and they go back to where
she's now a grown up woman in the car accident, she's speaking with her
mom. Like there's again, there's much like we mentioned the show. I
think there's aspects of moments like oh this is really cool idea. It's just
in a kind of a whole stew of men. So but there's those are
some things that I liked but just didn't maybe hit a home run. But
I liked the concepts or some visuals of them, so that's all I got.
I thought the visuals overall were actually pretty pretty good, honestly for just
comparing to some of the other MCU shows that we've had, there was very
minimal like log truck. Yeah, no, log truck, That's what I
was gonna say, Like even compared it to that, Like it never got
to that level, which is which is great, you know, like on
the scale that they like set themselves up that they couldn't fail in that way,
which is Yeah. No, I'm glad they kept it toned down for
that stuff. Yeah, I'll piggyback. Visuals are great. Chiography was great.
I think that the set pieces too were really really cool, Like I
love the the whole fight set up in the roller skate area arena. That
was really a lot of fun, and just the way there was a lot
of like one takes. The cinematography was cool. That's the other thing you
were talking about, Kirklund where Daredevil popped in there. That was all like
one continuous shot. It wasn't different angles flipping around either, So I thought
that was really really well done. So, uh yeah, anything else from
the show, any notes pros Collins, anything to shout before we do a
final rating, and maybe let us know where you might rank it in the
MCU if you want to. The the lacrosse sequence, like that flashback to
the to the back of the day moment kind of had me chucklin because what
like the red team was kicking ass and then the blue team goes to the
tent and it's it just reminded me of the opening of Troy when they go
and get Achilles to like just just come in here and like that's their MVP
because this guy just comes in they just start like bopping them in this lacrosse
game, and I'm just thinking about Troy. I'm thinking that I'm watching Echo
and there's only like five episodes in here, I'm like, what are we
doing here? Why am I watching a lacrosse game? But there's a lot
of different emotions going on there. That's a physical lacrosse game because like the
loser is banished from the last Yeah, that's not what I I don't know
play it for those steaks. Oh, if those are the stakes, I
feel like it should have been bloodier, like people should just be like I
can't imagine. There's many rules back some of those like ancient like Mayan sports
and whatnot, they like would use human heads as like the ball and crazy
thing. Yeah, this one's very toned down compared to that. Like Kingpin
lost one of those games they had leave Oklahoma unfortunately. Oh no, I
can go to lacrosse guys anything else, going once, going twice my last
thing. I guess I did enjoy as much as I said, I didn't
enjoy the family kind of all being like a super team. I did enjoy
the individual family members. Grandparents were great, and you would like biscuits is
definitely at the lower tier. I didn't really enjoy. It was like,
and he has to fix the truck, selling the PlayStation one hundred bucks hunder
bucks on the radio, just going crazy. I didn't like that, but
I like the grandpa. The grandpa is probably my favorite family member him,
just with the grandma too, when they have their like their moments and their
their bickering. But but I loved it when she came back in and she
wanted to get the sewing machine, but he was already going back and he
cleaned it up for and brought it to her. I just I think that
was really really cute. So I like, I like their relationship. I
will say too, like there's jokes and that one didn't hit from me,
but I will also give it credit because I feel like in Phase four they
did this too much. Is I feel like it wasn't like an overly Quippi
Marvel show. I think there was humor, but it wasn't Every character was
jokey and saying some sort of pulp culture reference. So I appreciate that.
It sucks that's not a project that I enjoy more because I want that to
happen in the projects I do enjoy more because there's just sometimes where they always
got to go for the joke, and I appreciate like unfortunately Fins Secret Invasion
was like that too, where they didn't go for the joke a lot,
but again the quality isn't there. And watch, they're gonna look on it.
See what makes serious stuff like no one likes it, no one responds
to It's like, no, that's that's not that's not the thing. Don't
take that lesson away from it. Can we just say it? Fuck secret
invasion man? Oh yeah, fuck secret invasion man came out and I got
not this year last secret Invasion. Check out the MCU, going, geeks,
let's see where it appears, you know, uh, if we are
we on final thoughts, then final thoughts rangs for people? Yeah, sure,
okay, I'll go first because I already swelled where I put in the
MCU, Yes, bottom third right now, So right now it's Secret Invasion
and men Quantumania and then Echo, And I think I just have to fail
because I was going in this cast because sometimes that happens with scores, where
I go, Okay, I want to talk about because there's some things I
do, like, there's some things that I have positives, But it's like
how many and also how many will other people bring up? Wre I go
oh yeah that or if it's a different perspective, I go, okay,
I see it that way now, I like that more, but didn't happen
enough in this cast. And maybe you know, like I'm excited to listen
to Marvel lines with Chris and Brandt. I think they're a bit more pausitive
on so if you want to pausitive, you go check it out. But
that's where it's like, I still don't think there's enough there for me fucking
thumbs up. I'm not giving this the thumbs up. Do you got one
of these stream yards? No, I will give this. If I gave
ant Man a four whatever I gave at Man because I failed that, I
would give this like a notch above it. And I guess if I gave
Atmin like a four point nine, i'd give this like a four point nine
to five. I would still rather watch I just making ratings. Yeah,
I would still rather watch this than Amtman. But the only thing, as
I said before that ant Man, you know it's gone now, but at
least had some good moments from Michelle Fighter. It had a great performance with
Kaang. I don't really have a great thing here, but it's not obnoxiously
bad or have anything. It's just a lot of head scratchers, and it's
a lot of weak storylines week writing week plot and just weak motivations all around.
Where that's why I do think this for sure was six episodes, maybe
more, because this is the definition. I haven't dropped it yet, but
this is the definition of butter scraped over too much bread, and that's what
Echo is. Uh So I will I gotta give this a failing great unfortunately,
and I don't like doing this. It sucks up into twenty twenty three.
Never failed a single MCU project, even Black Widow eternals had issues with.
There was enough to be I get this a pass man. And this
is another thing I'll say, I forgot to say some of my opening.
But this is why when people got on the bandwing and I couldn't cause for
a whole year we heard, oh there's problems with Echo, like Kevin Fai,
he supposedly watched it, wasn't a fan of it. And then the
trailer came on, Everyone's like, oh, fuck those rufers wrong. Look
at this a great trailer a good show. It does not make And that's
the problem where those can fool you. And I'm still worried about Ironheart.
I'm worried about Agatha. I'm worried about all these shows that was made in
this era that we hurt Daredevil when they stopped. Luckily, when we heard
those reports of oh yeah, they're really unhappy with how these shows were going,
we still got a couple more of those shows coming our way. So
I have very low expectations for anything before Daredevil that's live action, because I
think this was me that like rush it out, get it there, get
it done, put out a product. And again it's just I think this
is stuff. This I think not hurt the MSU in a way where it's
like the Cannon, it just hurts it where people watch us turn it off
and get less excited for Kingpin or Daredevil and stuff. So yeah, I'll
just say a four point nine just a pullo a fail, but I gotta
fail it. I love it. I think for me, you know,
it's funny, funny. This is like if I had to compare it to
anything in Sam's Oh my God, I'm my triple words nitthing in the MCU,
I guess i'd compare most to Miss Marvel in that you know, there's
a couple of good moments I like, but overall it's like the show is
pretty weak. But I still really liked my main character here, and that's
the same thing here. So I'm hopeful that there is a future ahead for
Echo that I enjoy, where she can pop up in something like a Daredevil
or other you know, New York or Oklahoma street level things and we can
get some more for character, because I'd like to see that there, because
even you know, miss Marvel, I like the Marvels more than other people.
I don't love it by any means, but at least like that character
went on to do something else that was better than that TV show. So
I don't have my UH list in front of me here, so I don't
know exactly where i'd put it, but I could easily PLoP this in the
bottom five at the time being. I want to say i'd put it above
Secret Invasion Quantum. Yeah, I got I gotta put my list in front
of me here, but definitely bottom five. I can say that without a
without a doubt, I think. So it's unfortunate, uh, but that's
just the way she goes. So looking forward to the next one, which
is Deadpool, I guess yeah, man x Men better deliver as well too.
If X Men is like this cool, like if they were disappointed the
X Men, that's gonna fucking hurt big time. Yeah, I mean obviously,
like Guardians was great last year, but from Secret Invasion A man,
I didn't like Local season two into Marvel's he has you know what it is?
I guess what if was in there. But yeah, it's been a
bit a rough stretch here for me. So and I'm you tend to be
more tend to be more positive. I think on some MCU stuff, you
guys get concerned about what they might think is like he's something like Empra Palpatine
there for a second, dog go their interpretation of violence and like mature content
and whatnot. Uh, based on what we've seen with Echo applied to Deadpool
three, Deadpool no other stuff. Yes, Okay, I think because it's
Reynolds, he gets the you get the past. You can make dial Joe
jokes, you can like have anal sex like no but like that, Like
I think that's like Joe dial Joe, like you can do anything you want.
I think when we hear these rumors about Blade being emirated and Daredevil,
that's where I feel like this could this is what they think is mature,
and maybe it'll take it as a lesson, be like, oh, it's
not because like I feel like where Old by Nite had. I feel like
Werewolf Night was more mature than this, but that that was just a special
So I would expect Daredevil's mature to be like this that Okay, we see
some blood splatter, but we're not. And even Netflix, they'd never drop
the F bomb. You never saw any dick, you never saw any titties,
you know, like they they were hard. They were a hard PG.
Thirteen like they were I guess mature, but it just felt more No
even like even Loki season two or I would say like any specifically, maybe
Guardians three, like those all feel more mature to mean they given Secret Invasion,
throw that in the bucket too. Those all feel more mature to me
than this does. Even though there's no bullets, their heads in blood.
I guess. God, remember Olivia Coleman was in Secret Invasion. I know
I agree with Travis on that, I'm not. I feel like a deadpool.
They're like, yeah, do your thing, we'll prove it whatever you
know, we have faith in your in your team over there but yeah,
I there is some worries for sure for other things that I'd say are more
in that traditional Marvel creative bucket. Right now definitely makes me want to lower
my bar on expectations for if they It's not like like after this, it's
not like, oh my gosh, this project's gonna be R rated, buckle
up. This is gonna be crazy. Like it's definitely never in that category.
After seeing this, it's gonna be crazy though, and even to me,
like the brand of already Marvel Spotlight, it just like starts with a
whimper. It's like if I get this logo again, yeah, sure,
it's like Kingpin for me. Yeah. Yeah, it's just like what does
this mean? Like what does it mean? Because I just like and especially
too, like, oh, this is gonna be a character focused Like I
don't think this was character It focused on a character, but I don't think
this was a character driven story. So right away, this Spotlight branding,
it's just a brand. It's just like I feel like this is something they
threw in there to make Echo more appealing to people, but it means nothing
unfortunately. So h mister patz Er, what would be your rating and what
are you thinking right now? Yeah, this is this is tricky. I'm
I'm similar to you where I was curious how I was gonna fluctuate on my
feelings, like after the review, after we've talked about something. Sometimes we
talked about something that's really positive that boosts my score or supernaga that that lowers
it, and it kind of lowered a little bit, but like nothing too
drastic. I have made the decision I am gonna fail this show. Pretty
rare for me. That's it's definitely across the MCU, especially like I feel
like I even just in general, I feel like it's very rare for me
to fail. Someone listen, do you think you have atrocious secret invasion for
sure? Turnals? I did, No, I don't. I don't think
you did what I did for Eternals. I got to rewatch that movie.
I do. I do got to rewatch it. It needs to climb out
of the dredges that you that we have at the bottom. I feel like
there's a clear dredge here now of these of these marvel things, and I
feel like Eternals does not belong there, even for you guys, not now
though, because for me that was like, oh, this is a decent
movie, but we have so much greatness eternals. I'm picking every day over
Echo Secret Invasion at Man. That makes me happy, even though it's a
huge asterix on it. Yeah, but like, yeah, I'll have to
go back if you did fail. It was like a four point nine situation.
Yeah you were, it was close. Yeah, So yeah, I
my letter back legged out. I couldn't pull it up. I was gonna
check my MSUs just timeline there, but I'll update you in the future.
But nonetheless, for this show, like there is aspects that I liked,
and for that reason, I did want more episodes to just dive into regions
that they kind of kind of you know, exposed me to a little bit,
but we just didn't jump into them. With the plot stuff and the
character stuff and just a lot of it, it just seemed like they try
to cover some things or introduce some things without actually diving into them. And
for that reason, that's just that's just a fail. That's that's not how
you tell a story. And big let down with the Kingpin appearance. Wanted
more Daredevil. I thought he was fantastic in here. But the main reason
why it's so tragic that I'm failing. This is because like the main was
amazing. I really liked the casting, like I did, like the performances
and the stuff that they're going for, but they just didn't keep going with
it. And yeah, like, is it just Disney had such little faith
that or I guess Marvel had such little faith that it was going to like
people are gonna be interested if they did more episodes than this. I'm just
curious what those boardroom meetings were going on with this, because, as you
mentioned, like we did know that there was some issues with the overall production
of this, and it's very rare to have a show just binge release,
especially in the MCU model, and it's the first time I wanted to do
that. Yeah, right, it's very rare, and I just would love
those rumors were true of like, oh yeah, fig he didn't like what
he saw. It's like, well, what was the original? You know?
And who knows, maybe that's against him, maybe the original is better,
Like oh, well, this is too much of this and it's not
because maybe there is a whole show that is just really lots of character conversations
with the family and about the culture. And he's like, well, leave
what you can in there, but like this is too long, and again
it could just be all bullshit. Maybe this was just say I'm happy with
it. And then at the same time, then if this is what FII
looked at it, yeah, this is good to go. Like I don't
want to say I'm losing faith fivey but it's like we're getting at that point
where it's definitely like we're past that point of like we can just trust him
now. But it's like this are these past two years, these projects coming
out. It's like, how did we get this? And I knows was
forced on him, like you gotta make content, but just like how can
you just, in my opinion, look at this and be like this is
good to go? And that's why I think it's a bitch because it's like,
let's get it out there. We're not going to talk about it.
You won't see Echo probably for at least a couple of years because I don't
think she'll be I don't know, maybe she'll be in Daredevil, but like
I I don't know. It's just like there's a good chance to show years
twenty episodes, like why not you know she's in the same amount as Matt
is in this show, right, I can see that definitely happened. It's
just the same scene, but just flip from his perspective, just like they
did in the Hawkeye scenes. Here she just kicks the shit out of him.
Yeah, like up, she's got her glowing hands now, and then
heals them after. She's a good person, you can see. But for
she just completely heals him. He stops fighting crime. He just like he's
no longer blind, Like what happened. He goes the location with fucking he
doesn't want to be a lawyer anymore. Look at it. It becomes a
podcaster. Yeah, who else could he hear? Who else could she heal?
The m just goes to Tony's grave. Just just a lot of broken
souls in the m C. But for my ranking number, I think it
is close to five, like four point It's tough because I just again,
I don't know what I could would compare it to with like secret evasion or
something, but I want to be close to four point nine, So I'll
do like four point eight. Let's just say that a little bit lower than
travel, all right, Taylor, send us off. I just think characters
that could be healed. Colonel Rhodes, which was Terrence Howard yea yeah,
get Terrenceward, Yeah, Mark Ruffalos Edward and again, oh yeah, Rody,
he's been a he's been a scroll for years. Two. Oh my
gosh, I did forget about you know. After after we watch like just
side attention, after we're watching Endgame recently and just seeing like Roady in certain
situations in there, I'm convinced that no, this is this is genuinely the
real Roady, because I feel like a Scroll Roady would just drop the broken
legs gimmick and just like fed for themselves until we get it confirmed. There's
some situations where he's like trapped in but he's like he's crawling, but a
Scroll Roady would be like, no, up on his feet and leaning into
that. He's just like the best actor in the world. My legs Tody
tears again until we get it confirmed because he had the same outfit they had
been a hospital. But yeah, the this this show, I would have
loved it. If they were able to capitalize on a few few more things
just got a little bit more of a cohesive story. That being said,
I'm interested to see what they do with this character if they just drop her
all together, or if they bring her back in some shape or form in
the future, which I hope they do, because I feel like this character
deserves justice and deserves to have like a proper MCU narrative fleshed out, not
anything that's rushed and chopped up and mingled up like they did with this show.
Again, I think the show landed on some really cool cultural representations and
some really cool elements and just very cool choreography. Enough good things that I
am going to pass it, but I'm just gonna go with a five.
I'm gonna keep it right out of five. I left you last. I
actually thought your score is gonna be lower than me and Kirklands. No,
no like I thought you. I thought you're gonna give it a six.
I thought about the six, but after us like talking and out and kind
of venting some grievances that kind of made me feel confident on that five,
I still wanted to pass it. I didn't want to fail it because I
feel like there's enough good things in this show. But I'm I'm I'm not
afraid of Kingpin. I wish we got to explore that dynamic a little bit
like that sound like he called you out and this is the issue, and
like, I'm not afraid of king Pin. I'll take this Sunday. You
hear that, Oklahoma, You and me, Kingpin, Let's go the powow
just a big ball at the RPG fireworks. Nice. Uh yeah, that's
it and we will be back for Deadpool. And I just really I have
faith in Deadpool, but I just hope next year because I feel like we're
talking almost the last newscast. I know there's one review like, oh,
I like the dress as a Simon cal the group and stuff like I actually
don't enjoy talking about the mcu wh and it's this quality like it's like I
have fun because we get the joke around and some memes happen everything, but
it's like it's just a bummer that we've had too much. It's too much
right now, like was way off we've had so it'd be different if it
was like like you said on the ratio of like too great then too bad,
Like it'd be like and there was like a back from last year.
We got so much bad stuff and then now it's just or even if it's
bad, she's like mediocre stuff as well. So I'm just like I'm just
bummed. I do I really miss the Phase three first half of Phase four
era where everything was like good to great and I'm fine with seven out of
ten still, but like, I just don't need multiple failing things. So
I just man, I hope, like because I think sometimes people think like,
oh, yeah, you want to you can't wait to tell this by
Like no, I wish I had. I wish that I'm not already forgetting
Echo. I wish that I had another Kingpin thing, Like I just want
some good MCU back. So I hope. I think we'll get them a
Deadpool, but that's tough because that's Ryan Reynell's crew, so it's like it's
tough to gauge there. So hopefully X Men Deadpool, what if three Spider
Man Isoconda, whatever these shows are, whatever amalgamation is, I hope the
next time we get to be more positive and just have a have a good
time in the sense of like, oh this is great and this was great,
So hopefully I can. I believe I'm giving them, I'm giving a
full year and a half twenty twenty six is my like of a fishing lost
faith, you know, if it if I have a bumpy road, you
know, so it's like three years pretty much. I know. Thy gentlemen,
thank you very much for tuning in. Let us know. If you're
on the more puzlans, please let us know same thing. If there's anything
we got wrong, I'll absolutely walk back and be like, oh no,
they answered this here right there, go okay perfect, you know. But
if you can't, or if you have more examples like fucking the guy and
Wakanu who bak who became a king? Let us know Twitter, Facebook,
the discord. Thank you very much for tuning in. When you hear from
us next, it'll not be boring, see buddy,