The Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wall Street, Window dot Com and listeners like
you, Yeah, yeah, Kelly. And it is a moon day,
Monday, the eighteenth day of September twenty twenty three, allegedly according to that
thing we call a calendar. And this is a show you might have been
looking for. Then again, you might have stumbled across it accidentally. I
don't know. But we are available on most podcast platforms as it stands,
and doing my best to retain all of the positions we have everywhere but YouTube
anymore, which I think is funny. Look, it's Monday, and it
is approaching that day in November that I always wind up talking about on my
show. I always wind up bringing people on. Oh no, I just
covered a news story on this, didn't I The jfk assassination. Now you're
not gonna hear from me too much about it tonight, hopefully. Why I
have somebody who is uh, well, you know, you know when we
talked about experts a couple of weeks ago. All right, as far as
I'm concerned, there are not that many experts on the general case. I've
said this before a lot of times. The overall case, there are specialty
guys here and there. They might have an expertise in an area, maybe,
but we're talking about a handful of people out there, and I've said
it on this show, and a lot of people don't like it, because
there's people out there promoting themselves as experts on the case. God knows why.
I don't know what they really gain at, but they're they're not.
This guy though, I used to call him up, and I used to
call him up well during a certain time period when he was working on a
certain project. This massive chronology on the case actually that well, you know,
look, I keep explaining this thing as a resource. You're gonna want
it. If you're interested in the case. You want to go into deep
detail, you want a little bit of comic relief, you want some detail
that you don't find anywhere else. You would get Walt Brown's chronology, okay,
on the JFK assassination, on JFK in general. Actually, at a
certain point, he goes way back in history on this thing. But hey,
look, I'm not going to talk about that tonight. I am going
to talk about Walt though and his expertise. Why, because he's one of
the few people I do count as an expert in general, I don't call
myself an expert on the case. Other people do that. Sometimes I always
say no, I'm not. I'm a student of it. I know more
than the average person on the street, I think, but I don't go
any further than that. I've got a fair grasp on a couple of areas.
But expert. No. Walt, though, I used to call him
up, and it was hilarious because no matter what the date was, the
conversation would usually start out with Hey, Walt, are you doing? And
he'd go, oh yeah, and then he'd tell me something about that particular
day. Okay, it could be anything like it would be Oswald's birthday.
He'd tell me it was Oswald's birthday. I would call him up on another
odd day he'd tell me that was the day the first Kennedy came to America.
Weird stuff. And I would say, okay, Ben, Well,
anyway, how you doing. How's things going with the chronology? And usually
I did this because I didn't used to go to conferences. Now this year
I am. I'm going to the Lancer conference. I am going to bring
quite a few things with me. One of them is going to be a
book, and how many books am I going to carry a couple of them
with me? Just a couple, but one of them is going to be
a book, and it's called Judith Verry Baker in her own words. Anyways,
I would call him up on one of these days, usually because it
was approaching the time of November twenty second, and he used to invite people
that were deep politics quarterly subscribers that come to his house. I did this
quite a few times, and we would sit there and talk all day,
and in fact, I was probably a big pain in the neck because I
would get there as early as I could, and I would be one of
the last people to leave. Most of the time, Walt met wife number
two. I think Walt met the the current missus. Oh okay, but
Walt didn't meet everybody, but he met me a bunch of times. Was
actually surprised to see who I was what he first met me face to face.
It's an odd story. There's a lot of them. But today we're
gonna talk about Judith Erry Baker in her own words, because I've had a
couple of weird reactions from people who didn't know about the book. Oh my
god, you're selling a Judith Verry Baker book. No, I am not
selling a Judith Verry Baker book, but I am selling one that might just
compare I don't know, some of her statements, some of her own words
to evidence to reality, and you might find there's a great contrast in that.
And I'm perfectly willing to sell that book. In fact, kind of
was part of an article that Walt put out Indie Politics Quarterly regarding the interesting
statement Judith Verry Baker in the tremendous waste of time she is as a false
witness and all that kind of stuff. Oh wait, these are my words
enough out of me. Uh, Walt Brown, good evening. Would would
you like to argue with anything I just said? Wow, I'll try and
buy my introduction back later on when we're talking privately. Uh. Yeah,
I recall vividly when you used to come up. We had some wonderful,
absolutely wonderful times together. We have about I don't know, sometimes as many
as a dozen people. As far as meeting spouses, there's no current missus
h and I never met any any spouse or spice there No you met mine?
I did that you did. There were a couple that came with me
that that you did meet you did not have the unfortunate ye oh yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah you did. You were lucky enough. You were
lucky enough to avoid my first wife. Though. I just want to say
you you were much luckier than I in that you avoided her. You never
met her, Thank all the gods. So sorry, go ahead. Well,
uh, you were talking about the chronology, and he said, I
went back in history. I was thinking of Plenty the Elder and Herodotus,
and there's a crazy story there, and it was a very expensive story.
I did an index of all of the material from the Kennedy case. It's
it's called the Global Index. It's a CD rom right, And one of
the names in there was Herodotus. Another one was Bridget Bardow. Another one
was Beetle Bailey, which was the description of Oswald the way he wore his
hat in the Marines from Kerry Thornley. So I sent the CD to get
it reviewed so that the magazine that gets to libraries for buying stuff would be
aware of it. And the reviewer, some stringer from North Dakota, just
beat the living hell out of it because it included Herodotous, Bridget Bardot and
beatle Bailey. Even though if the name is in the book you have to
include it. You can't say is that important enough to index it. It's
there, you use it. That was that was me, and that just
cost the whole The whole thing was a fiasco, unfortunately. And speaking of
fiasco's, we'll get to one tonight. As far as the chronology, going
back in history, an interesting fact that the first real event there comes along
in eighteen twenty three, and it was when the first Kennedy spelled very differently,
left Ireland to come to the United States. And the interesting thing of
note is that that Kennedy, who would have been JFK's great grandfather, he
died in November twenty second, in eighteen fifty eight. Wow, that's you
know that, that's the kind of stuff that that's in there everywhere. It's
just it's unavoidable. Like you said, when you call me up at a
certain date, there's there's always stuck, there's always stuffed, there's always good
stuff. The history of the Secret Service up until sixty three totally unknown.
Another story. Another time. The chronology was fun. There was a complaint
or two that there was no conclusion, so I wrote a conclusion. It's
called the Kennedy Execution, and it was in my mind at least my final
my final word, that's the way that's titled on my computer, my final
word on the JFKKSE. And then I got phone calls from people that you
would know that are experts in the medical areas, as you noted that some
people are experts in certain areas. I heard from some of the medical experts,
and their concern was that one of the medical experts was constantly willing to
lend his name to seminars hosted by JVB. And I just said, well,
you know, that's ridiculous. I said, you know, she she's
making this stuff up, or you know, it's being drawn from stuff that
can never be sourced. But trust me, folks, you know, it's
like being a magician on a radio. It was just crazy. And I
put together a bunch of thoughts and it took about, I don't know,
I sp a couple of days on it. It was, I don't know,
close to three hundred pages long. And I sent it to one of
the researchers and he immediately circulated it, and all of them that got it
said, you've got to put this into print. People, people need to
read this stuff. And I, you know, I was, I don't
know, you know, because I thought kennedy execution was the last story.
But I did. Matter of fact, the Wall Street window that you mentioned
who had mentioned as one of your sponsors, that's Mike Swanson and his company
ultimately published it Campaignia Partners in Danville, Virginia, and it's got a story
to tell. It's it's a little bit of a challenge, but it's a
fun challenge. You said earlier about comparing it, and I'd say, hey,
you know, compare it to reality. You know, it's a it's
a good, good way to find out if the common sense is still working
for somebody, or it's a fact check. The thing. I mean,
if you go through but the book of Hers that I read, not the
five were the pages on David Ferry, but me and Late you go through
that and you don't find anything to question. You're not an expert, that's
the damn sure. It's just I don't know. It's as if as you're
reading it you can see where material is borrowed from that idea came from such
and such, that's original, you know, her her putting on Marina's clothing
so she could pass as a Russian woman. Anybody can pass as a Russian
woman. He certainly don't have to dress Russian. And of course she spoke
Russian sort of. That was a problem in my reading, because you at
one point she wanted she wanted I think she wanted to say okay to Oswald,
but she couldn't remember how you say it in Russian, and you would
just say dah, meaning yes, or to get fancy, you go to
Malaudia. But if you can, if you don't how to say yes in
Russian, you don't know the language. I mean, there's certainly not a
speaker. But that's neither here nor there. I understand. At one point
at a conference someone challenged her speak speak to us in Russian a little bit.
She couldn't. Not surprisingly, some of the things that I took out
of it, I think the craziest thought in the whole book, And I
hope enough people get copies from you or me to find their craziest thought.
We can do this again some night. But the craziest thought I found was
that Oswald was tortured by the KGB. He withstood the torture, and when
they were all done, they apologized and gave him a classy apartment, you
know, the one, the fancy apartment that he got that was wired up
in Minsk. That let me just say, the KGB. You don't use
the KGB and apology in the same sentence. It doesn't happen unless you're talking
about the KGB and the widow. Because in its day, the KGB was
one of the most efficient killing machines that ever existed. You know, there
are stories about the current ruling elite in Moscow killing off enemies, and they're
probably true. I used I used that thought in one of my mysteries.
But to KGB torturing somebody failing, there's a problem. Apologizing, that's a
second problem, and giving the person an apartment because you're you're apologizing for making
an egregious error, not a chance. That's just pure invention. And I
don't know if it was at that point or some earlier point when I sew
my ends up what's going on here? Another classic I'm recalling is that Oswald
was sought out by the Secret Service to give them a clue to possible assassination
sites along the motorcade route. You know, on face it sounds shilly,
you know, arguably preposterous when you get to the fact that the person they're
seeking out does not own or drive a vehicle, except in this book,
does not drive a vehicle. How would they know? Did did Oswald ever
travel the motorcade route? I don't know. Yeah, between that and the
service Secret Service advance needs to go to him. That makes the Dallas police
look even more foolish, because then they actually look in nineteen sixty three,
Yeah, no kidding, I mean look for advice on the motorcade route.
What you can't go to the Sheriff's department, You can't go to the DPD.
You can't go to any of the military guys that were hanging around in
Dallas. You can't go to the businesspeople. Uh what what you got to
go to Oswald who's got a part time job. You can't use your own
Secret Service training to make sense out of things. No, not for nothing,
But there were probably two hundred potential ambush sites when they turned the corner
onto the main drag there and a number of authors point us up, you
know, missus Connolly eventually said, you can't say that Dallas doesn't love you,
And based on the people that were out on the street, that would
be true. But the people that didn't go out to the street, that
were up in the windows in the canyon, they're going down towards towards Houston
Street, the hate that was projected on their faces, and it's spoken of
in some of the some of the books that I've read mostly uh, not
assassination strictly related, but you know biographies Kennedy, you know in his final
hours, what he went through, and there were there were plenty of places
from which you could have pulled an assassination or at least gotten to him.
And let's face it, the site chosen was as bad as one could imagine.
Yeah, that's kind of a tough spot anyway. Look, strategically,
if you're picking a spot, it's kind of crappy for a couple of reasons.
Well, it's even crappier if you're gonna shoot after the car passes you.
Let's see, that's the thing it. Look, if you take the
shot on Houston, you have just increased the value of that perch, of
the alleged perch right exponentially when the car right below the window you could swallow
a bullet and hurt somebody, right, I mean, look, I go
to hit him with a brick out of that window with him approaching the school
book depository. I'm just saying, okay, it's this is nothing. I
could have tossed a baseball and hit him in the head, all right,
it wouldn't have been a problem. And I don't see good you know this,
Okay, I'm just saying, yeah, look, not a problem.
Plus it when giving you more shots, just one of that. Yeah,
you know. Oswald helped to fly David Ferries plane. They met speaking Russian
and the New Orleans Post Office in New Orleans. The rest of the book
makes the rest of her story makes a point of saying New Orleans is just
slightly to the right of Genghis Khan as as a metropolis. You know,
it's a right wing bastion. You know, you've got Austin and all of
his nonsense, you got Trvy and whatever nonsense he was up to. Well,
I love how they're working for a place at a certain point that has
a black business owner. The two of them allegedly had a job together,
right, all right, there's a black business owner and look let's just get
honest about the South. At that time, you still had separated bathrooms and
stuff, and there were laws in place. If you had a business and
you screwed around on would happen. You know, you'd have to call Oswald
and even her white people. I mean, I don't think that's offensive.
So you couldn't have them mixed with what they would have called coloreds at the
time in New Orleans, New Orleans. Yeah, you couldn't have them using
the same bathroom. Now, this guy has no evidence of having set up
a second bathroom, but he's got temp employees at work in his place.
Yeah, no, something's wrong there. I mean, yeah, Lee could
have went outside of people realized Brown versus Board of Education was. There was
a program done on that in two thousand four. Fiftie Anniversary was a radio
program. I wrote the script for it, and that legally de segregated the
South. And what happened was that the public schools closed, they became private
schools, and the tuition to attend those private schools was the equivalent of what
your tax bill for schools would have been. So they were hanging on to
segregation by their fingernails, and they were not going to give it up.
And part of and this does this gets away a little bit slightly from from
her book, But the FBI, the Secret Service, the government, the
people of power were generally racist in nature. Not necessarily right wing, but
racist, you know, the whole Abraham Bolden nonsense, which I don't believe
anyhow, Lisa, not some of it. Is he still alive, by
the way last I checked, he is, And uh, you know,
I think I might be more forgiving of his story than you are. There's
good, but look, it's still you got to acknowledge it's part of the
time period, and that would be part of where they would be if they
were indeed together in that place. I don't know why it is that people
can't recognize that, because it's just a reality, okay, and it's an
absolute, carved in stone reality. Yeah, there's no way getting around it.
It wasn't like it wasn't like, well, the next block is different
from this flock. No, it's not. It's the same. And that's
another wacky thing about them breaking into Russian at the post office, too,
which is always hilarious to me. You know, I think you even pointed
that out in that little article that you put into a deep politics quarterly some
years ago, where it was like and the way you put it, I
forget, but of course you you always have this way of writing things that
that kind of cracks me up because there's always some some snark and some sarcasm
built into things. And I loved it. It was like breaking into Russian
I don't know, I forget how you put it, but it was sort
of like as if we were going to go into I don't know, breaking
into Russian song and dance in the World's post office with a stranger getting ready
for your opening on Broadway, you know, something like this. I'm like,
uh, yeah, okay, that is ridiculous. Oh I just happened
to drop my uh you know, my my ad. I was placing somewhere
some letter or some crap, and uh yeah, we just exchanged words in
Russian because this is where the chemistry sparks up. And oh, by the
way, Clayshaw paid for our hotel rooms. That's why we don't have any
receipts there, because we used to sneak away and do that. I also
love the fact that you point out, well, gee, she's got a
masquerade as Marina, but she's got to wear her clothes. Well, that
would be because everybody would know how Marina dressed everywhere he went. Absolutely.
Okay, let's play it. Let's name the people who would know how Marina
dressed. And Ruth Payne and maybe maybe you know, because I mean that's
a stretch, but we got to say something there. Yeah, I mean
maybe Michael Michael might have known. He might have paid attention. Yeah,
perhaps, And I listed, I listed the stuff that she confessed to in
that book. Well, that's another thing. If you take, yeah,
if you took a conspiracy to murder a foreign head of state, Yes,
Caro, she was accessory, an accessory to the murder of a volunteer killed
testing the so called cancer drug that was carried around an affirmis and a baby
buggy. She was an accessory to gun smuggling into the United States. Yes,
and then my favorite or least favorite, she was an accessory to thousands
of acts of animal cruelty. True, and nobody nothing, Nobody said,
hey, you know, covering, let's let's see what the deal is.
The government left it off too. Oh yeah, oh yeah, we'll see.
That's the thing is, when sick feen minutes background checkers get in in
on you and decide your story's not worth running. Yeah, that's usually a
bad sign. And it's not because you know, the media is controlled by
the CIA and they don't want the real story to get out. Okay,
it's about although you know that that is a possibility sometimes, but not in
this case. This story is ludicrous enough that I'm almost surprised the CIA didn't
encourage it. With CBS, Hey, look, produce this please anything?
Uh yeah, yeah, get get this on Save the Whales, I mean,
and that's yeah. Yeah, highlight how highlight how she met Jack Ruby.
She was over hanging out with David and the Rats and Ferry. Ruby
came in and since she had been a gymnast at one point, she decided
to do some acrobatics, and Ruby, not to be Outcune also did some
acrobatics and then the brass knuckles and wads of money fell out of his pocket.
He was doing it and it's just silly and she and she also called
him sparky to his face. Yeah, okay, I believe that, sure,
And what was it, uncle uncle Carlos Marcello right at one point there?
Yeah, right, sure. See I love when people talk about let's
just call them Italian businessmen who have never had any experience with them, their
organizations, how things work. I mean the type of people that literally think,
Walt that the Dixie Mafia and the Mafia Mafia are the same kind of
thing. They're not. They share a name, okay, but it is
not the same kind of thing at all. I happen to have. You
know, look, I haven't known many members of the Dixie Mafia full disclosure,
but you know Italian businessmen in the Northeast, I'm encountered and have known
some of them. Maybe I'm related to a couple of them. Are just
saying, you know, I got about the end of my name. It's
possible from Jersey, all right, I was thinking the same thing. Well,
you know, it's true. The thing is, uh yeah, the
way that people describe these people, it always cracks me up because it's either
the Hollywood interpretation, you know, like they think Joe Pesci is for real,
like that guy bears any sort of you know, any resemblance to the
guy he's actually playing in casino in reality. Okay, not really, you
know, in a very vague sort of way. Yeah, sure, But
is he a clown. Is he there to amuse you? Well, Joe
Pesci is the real guy. Not so much. They wouldn't be playing around.
They wouldn't be playing around with these people in New Orleans like this.
Believe me, this is not what you know Marcello is going to be interested
in. Oh, uncle Marcello is gonna watch you, and don't worry.
We're gonna make sure that mister Tropa Conti, you'll take care of you over
there in Florida. You kill me. These are not the guys that would
be concerned with somebody like you. Even if your story was, you know,
twenty percent reel, it would be some no name guy, okay,
that would be hanging around running I don't know, numbers out of a bait
store in you know, in the glades, all right, something right,
right exactly, some kind of business front that's out there losing money every single
year. Because it doesn't actually lose money, it does something else, you
know, just saying it's like, yeah, they sell worms and that's the
front of the store. Notice all the worms are dead. Nobody buys the
worms, but the store is still there anyways. Uh, look, this
is not the way things run good. She got in touch. She was
close to every imaginable player that a person could make a list of the New
Orleans players. She was close to all of them. Yeah, and that's
going to happen. This is like, this is like the female, This
is like the bizarro female Forrest Gump universe. Of I just happened to be
there. You know. I ran into Jack Ruby, of course. Oh
and I ran into that guy. And you know what else I know?
And the other thing that cracked me up. This was the thing that you
and I commiserated about on the phone probably back in two thousand and eight.
I mean, I tried for many years to get people to listen to me
about her as she was growing in popularity, and most serious researchers, authors,
etc. Just would go, look, I'm not going to even comment
on that. It's not even worth my time. That was usually what I
would get, and I'd go, Guys, I'm telling you that people are
going to buy this. They're gonna like this story because it's got this romantic
angle, it's got this sympathetic angle. It's fetching. Absolutely, it's a
fetching story, and it's going to gain traction. And what's going to happen.
Is legitimate work that you guys are doing is going to get undermined by
this in evidence now, the fact that she runs her own conferences, and
in evidence the fact that she's still taking seriously by so many casual spectators that
it is nauseating to me. But anyway, I was commiserating with you about
this over the phone back and I want to say two thousand and eight,
somewhere between O eight and twelve, before the fiftieth for sure, and you
know you were working on the chronology. And again I appreciate the fact that
you even did this little article with me, But I love this idea that
she's crying on Q as per usual during interviews during her Men Who Killed Kennedy
bit? You know, Nigel Turner went to see her all that, right,
and she's crying about her last conversation with Oswald. And this to me
was the big tell don't don't forget the name Bobby Baker. And you know
you and I hear that, and we have thoughts. We have thoughts that
maybe the average person in the public doesn't have, even though they should be
able to put it together surface level, that something is very strange about that
statement that her alleged you know what, what does the woman call her mistress
because she's supposed to be his mistress because he's married. I don't know.
It doesn't matter because here's the thing. What was her husband's name, Walt,
Oh, mister Baker. Yeah, but wasn't it wasn't it Robert.
So what you're telling me is you got to tell this woman to not forget
the name Bobby Baker because at that time it was very popular to tie you
know, and it's come and gone in popularity about LBJ is the mastermind,
he's the guy really responsible and indeed, look, you can make arguments about
that. Matter of fact. You were on The Men Who Killed Kennedy?
Uh, you know, the one that was I think the same episode might
have been with her, No, but I know it was one that was
broadcast at the same time, broadcast at the same time she was episode eight.
You were episode nine, Okay, I was not. Yeah, you
were. You were the final straw in that series. Oh yeah, he
was one of the guys on there. You could see him right there.
It's writing writing his living room right at the you can see the mantle in
the back, which uh, you know, which I'm very familiar with in
his living room. I know exactly where he's sitting in his house while he's
doing the interview. I'm surprised we didn't see a white dog pop up on
your on your lap. Actually, uh, late at night when we find
he started filming about one o'clock in the afternoon, and he went told quarter
to two in the morning, and he just went through tape, if the
tape after tape, I mean, I must answer three hundred questions. And
I said, listen, when you're done putting us all together, what are
you gonna do with those tapes? Oh? We talked, I said,
I'd like to happen. Oh, sure, no problem. Never saw a
thing. Yeah, well, and you con punctuate the record. I didn't
get paid a penny for that. That was just something you did. Yeah.
Yeah, he's spent a lot of time Jay Harrison, Jay Harrison,
and sent them to me. And that was the amazing thing that came out
of all that he left here. He got here on the Rember thirtieth,
in two and blah blah blah, will make some movies tomorrow. Oh,
I guess you stay in the night. We did all the shooting the next
day without breaking for a meal, and then he left on the second and
when he drove it slowed, and she's driving away. I walked into the
house. The phone rang. It was Ben Wicked inviting me to speak at
the fiftieth out there at at Duquesne. And I said, oh, I'd
love to, sure, absolutely'd be glad to. They said, okay.
They never got back to me anymore. Just you know, we're looking forward.
I didn't know I was supposed to submit an abstract. I thought,
you know, he'll put me in for half an hour or whatever, and
you know, what are you gonna talking about? Never asked, So it
became a JFK one oh one. And since I didn't have an abstract,
I was just going to be, you know, part of the opening introduction.
It's okay, I don't care. We were going to have fun the
whole the whole time. And Tony Somers walks over, Well, I'm talking
to Ben ben Watt. He introduces himself and says, what have you got
me doing? He said, well, you're on assassination one on one.
You're gonna be with Wolf here. Oh how much time have I got?
He said, oh about seven minutes. Well, Anthony Somers went batshit for
having flown across the ocean for seven minutes, and I don't know what happened.
It was funny because they had a the opening of the program, which
was late afternoon, and then they broke for dinner, and then we had
the one on one. The opening of a program was something about Duquanne University
and its solemnity blah blah. Then Cyril did his keynote, which is the
same keynote he always does, and then Ben announced local we're going to have
a dinner break and after the break, we're gonna have JFK one on one
and it's gonna be a panel discussion and it's going to be great. We
got Walt Brown and and he went blank. He went totally blank. He
took the thing out of his pocket milked and said, oh yeah. And
Anthony Summers and I said, going to tell me I get I get billing,
and they get right off the program. So that was it. That
was my seven minutes, and it was fine, But who cares. I
had seven minutes at a tremendous event, and that was just about in the
time frame of when I got to know you know who. Because that's the
week that the men who killed Kennedy was on. Right, we watched reruns
at Sarah wax House on Saturday night. So that was the beginning of the
acquaintance, as it or before I forget tell them. Just when I mentioned
you could throw a bullet out, have you have you seen any of the
stuff with this Secret Service agent Paul landis, Yes, I have. I
was going to ask you about it, but I wasn't sure. Had you
been paying attention to this, you probably didn't have a choice because you're probably
watching sports and caught some news. But yeah, go ahead, quite by
accident, right, he said he found a bullet which would have been in
the position behind where Jackie was. Yeah, and you know, all right,
except that I believe it was Sam Kenny told that same story years ago.
Yeah, because he did the same thing. And then, you know,
there's a time when when somebody says something and it just credibility goes out
the window. Lander says, I'll never forget it. You know, you
know, I had to leave the Service because all I could see in front
of my face with the President's head exploding. That part. I understand,
yes, But when he says, but you know there was that bullet and
that was about two inches long. The bullets an inch form, yeah,
yeah, about right, it's you know, it's two point five four centimeters,
so that approximately an inch? Yeah yeah. Would you mistake one inch
for two inches your daydreaming? Well, and then he said he never read
the warn report. Good god, he's the only secret serviceman on the North
American continent that didn't read it. Well, But he's not the only one
to ever say that at a certain point he had not read it until because
a lot of them did that, right, even the guy who put out
the Kennedy Detailed books. I never read anything on it, right, say
that's what they say. And of course Quinn Hill, who's mister official Verdict,
read over landis this book and said I can't recommend this. I'm sorry.
I can't write it forward or an introduction, and I can't do it
right, which is not surprising, you know. Clint Hill's argument is,
hey, I was there, it was three shots and Oswald fired them.
Being there does not give you the right to say that maybe you only heard
three because he said he only heard doing his testimony right, but landish left
And if I'm not mistaken that was the only or the first motorcade that Paul
Anddis was ever in. Well, I don't. He was Jackie's agent and
that's the first time she went in a motorcade. See, I was thinking
that that he was actually supposed to be attached to the kids. I think
landis and maybe I'm wrong. Look, I'm not the expert on this,
but I will tell you what I know for a fact, and that is
that his previous statements preclude him from finding this bullet. According to his previous
statements because and look, I realized, reporters, somebody could record something wrong,
somebody could transcribe something wrong. I've been misquoted in newspapers having nothing to
do with the Kennedy assassination, having to do with me as a musician,
describing things to a reporter before. And I read what's in the paper,
and I go, what the hell? I never even said this. I've
seen it. I get it. But when somebody's recording in oral history on
this guy and he tells the story about you know, first of all,
now his news story as he got there and he sees Kennedy, Kennedy's head
laying on Jackie's lap, Well maybe a story didn't say that. His previous
story was they had already hauled the body away by the time he approaches.
Okay, different story right there. It's hard to imagine because he would have
been uncompetent. Thing. It's hard to imagine because the cars stops. Yeah,
everybody runs to see the damage. Then they decide, we got to
get Connelly out of here. They got to have a guarney to do that.
He gets put on a guarney. Then they got to have a second
garney for Kennedy. If any secret serviceman still attached to Kennada. I'm not
talking about the ones that ran off with Johnson's that's a different story, but
the ones that were was Kennedy, particularly since he was Missus Kennedy's agent.
I don't know that he was ever on the tidy detail, but with him
as her agent, he would have been right there, literally slowing his body
in front of her immediately. And I can never make sense of why he
was on the wrong side because she's on the left side of the amazine and
he's on the right rear of the follow up car. He should have been
right behind Clint Hill, but he wasn't, probably because he didn't know what
the hell he was doing. He was just along for the ride. One
thing I give him credit for, and fat fair, he was the person
who drove Missus Kennedy like a bad out of hell the night she went into
labor prematurely and she was saying, can't you go any faster? And this
guy's going ninety miles an hour on dirt roads in Hyannas And oh my god,
you know he got he got into the hospital right, and I'll get
him that. But he was he didn't even seem confident in what I saw
on television. And that's the same. Well, that's the same. That's
true. And even look back in the days with the tours of the Kennedy
detail, they did pull him out there to have him give some of his
story before none of this came up. Then I guarantee somebody presented him with
the idea of the magic bullet. At some point he was part of one
of the big documentaries. I remember Landis and I remember him talking about,
you know, almost like cheering for Clint. Go ahead, Clint, hurry
up, hurry up, get to the car. This kind of thing.
Uh. Look, all I'm saying is previous statements is which have been memorialized
do not match this story. Now the next thing, the only thing,
Chuck, any previous statements would have to include the bullet. Yeah, you
would think if you can't get best that, yeah, you happened, but
I found the bullet. If you don't include that when you do remember it,
come on, that's fiction. Since since that's tonight's topic. Well,
there you go. And the the other thing, but hold on, the
other thing is you know they're saying that this nurse now corroborates it because she
saw a bullet near Kennedy's head. Uh, you know, when he's in
the trauma room. Okay, Now he says he put this bullet down by
Kennedy's feet when he's in the trauma room while they're working on him. So
interesting that this bullet makes it from Kennedy's feet to Kennedy's head now to another
stretcher somehow. Yep. Uh. Look, he got a problem with the
description of the bullet as well, because it seemed to me as though he
was describing, again as other people have in the past, a point to
tip bullet, which quite honestly, the ammunition would not be something you would
describe as having a point to tip include the cartridge. Oh oh yeah,
yeah, no, an unfired one. Sure, but we're talking about a
bullet which is supposed to have been fired, which means no cartridge. Then
yeah, it's an inch where you know again the two whatever centimeters two and
a half about centimeters is an inch approximately, you know, give or take.
It's not two inches. But again, like you said, if it
was an unfired round, maybe he does get to two inches. I don't
recall exactly, but something like that. Right, yeah, if it's unfired.
But as as a guy carrying a gun didn't know it was not fired,
right, I mean, granted they were they were scrounging for agents in
that motorcade. The guy who was behind Clint Hill I think it was Tim
McIntyre. He was on loan from the West Coast for that trick. Yep.
The guy up on the seat with George Hickey. The guy that next
to him was from the Protective Research to service where they had a million index
cards with potential problems. When that guy got told he was going to Texas
to ride and motorcate, he probably had to go looking for his revolver,
right, because it wasn't something he carried around with him to sort index cards
in a private room in the basement in a white house. But they,
you know, they were desperate, and there were guys and you can read
this in some of the in some of the accoun guys like Chuck's Barrel,
who was always on Kennedy's motorcade. He awakened in time to be told the
president's been shot and he was home in the suburbs of Washington. And of
course, you know Caliman shouldn't have been in the seat he was in.
You know, that's Jerry Jerry Bain seats and he's on vacation, right,
what Kennedy is going to the worst stop in the world. Well, one
last thing too, is I would say that somebody's memory could be questionable anyhow,
considering if they had been part of the contingent of Secret Service agents that
might have been out drinking the night before, because you know, that was
going on until what seven am. I o that it was that late,
but I seemed to recall. It seems to me I heard the time signature
of five am and it was tied to landis right. I'm not trying to
tarde this guy but my recollection and I at one time I had a print
out. I had a print out of the chronology, which was speed high
when you stacked it up, and it cost two hundred and seventy five dollars
to ship. But it seems to me he was out until five am.
And you know, you can't say, well, look, I'm guarding your
president's wife and nobody's gonna bother her. You know, clid Hill didn't know
who he was guarding when he ran to the car. There you go,
and it was. Yeah. The reason why I say seven am, because
what time did they relieve the firefighters that they left at the hotel in four
works? Right, because they left some firefighters behind the story about the firefighters.
There were people there, but there were Secret Service on duty at all
times, okay, because if there were not, I can assure you there
would have been guy banished. They would They would have been guarding the Emperor
of Outer Mongolia. Yeah, but using using some local guys, guys to
add duty. The guys of go off duty from the early shift, slew
to the ranch and they were asleep. Jerry Baine was one of them.
I think he might have been the sack of that detail. Arthur Godfrey was
another one. They got up and they went right to Johnson's Ranch, which
was the last stop on that Friday, the last projected stop, and they
were all asleep when it happened, because they would have gone on duty somewhere
around late afternoon. Late afternoon. They would have gone on duty long after
the meeting at the Trademark and the speech there and all that they would have
been after all that went down. From there, you're going back to Air
Force one. And one of the things I always pointed out, there's there's
all kinds of documentation about which police were on duty for the motorcaid where,
you know, because they didn't have enough cops to cover. So if you
if you were a police motorcycle officer and you're twelve miles out, you stopped
traffick. When the motorcaid went by at twelve miles an hour, you rowed
like a bat out of help five miles ahead and did it again, stopped
traffick again. They were reproving they didn't have enough. But there were assignments
posted as to who was who and where was where. There was no posting
for the return motorcaid. There were no duty assignments to get from the trademark
to love Field. That's interesting. Why not I'm not going to tell out
something like that if we don't need it. Well, there you go.
Look, the one thing that any cop is going to try and save on
is having to do unnecessary paperwork, right if they can avoid it. So
oh anyway, but look, all I'm trying to say is that this guy's
statements don't match up with his previous statements at all. Okay, And it
seems really bizarre to me that he never heard of C three ninety nine.
You know, he never read the warrant commit It sounds like, again,
a lot of things that come together, which is funny, back to the
fictional statements of someone else. Sounds familiar because quite often over the years we
have seen the development of the JVB statements. Given that new information came out,
and back to that thing I was joking with you about, Oh,
Bobby Baker, don't forget his name. Why is that popular? Because what
was she doing? She was in a situation where people were talking a lot
about Johnson Bobby Baker being his bag man. And that's true. These are
true things. It's not as though she uh, you know, cobbles together
completely untrue. Yeah, go ahead. She didn't have to embroider that that
was fact. No, that's a fact. But it's a fact that's got
nothing to do with her, That's all I'm saying. You know, look,
I could tell you that, you know, Walt, I was somewhere
near the events of nine to eleven on nine to eleven. Uh, it
doesn't mean I'm connected to the event, Okay, I mean I'm in proximity.
So were you not too far from where nine to eleven happened in New
York? Yeah? You know we well we were not. Yeah, so
there you go. I mean I literally tried to get on the island in
Manhattan to go try and help people, because that was a call that went
out locally and ended up just sending in supplies because they had shut down the
entire island. They had stopped the tunnels, the bridges, everything, so
I couldn't get from to New York. But you know, somebody could say
that I was in proximity on that day to those events in New York City.
It doesn't mean it's got anything to do with me. But I was
in proximity. And here's the problem. The clearest day. I don't know
if you remember it, but it was the clearest day I could ever remember.
Yeah, it wasn't big. If the air had been any more clear,
I could have recognized people that were jumping out of windows. It was
a nice day. I was at work, and that was the first thing
I took notice of being at work. The job I used to do.
I used to work for ex On Mobile and I worked in the retail end
of that. And you know what, credit cards and stuff. Financial institutions
all stopped working. There was a malfunction in the communication immediately, and all
of a sudden, we had stuff that didn't work. I contacted our bank.
Our bank said, all the systems are down. This happened instantaneously.
Well, this was my what in the hell's going on? And then people
came in Because I was in a retail store at the time, literally my
physical location right by. He wants to talk proximity. I was right by
where the Hindenberg went down, because Lakehurst Naval Base was a stone's throw from
one of the retail establishments. I was at in a little town called Whiting,
which is not far from lake Hurst. Okay, And what's that or
Seaside Heights. Yeah, Seaside's not far from there either, but Whiting is
a little more inland, okay. And yeah, lake Hurst is right there.
Anyways, there are four there are three military installments right there. There's
McGuire for Dicks and lake Hurst Naval Air Base, which is where the Hindenberg
crashed. Okay, So that's where I was, and yeah, I noticed
the drop in communication and people started coming in going a plane hit the World
Trade Center, and I was like, okay, because it was a bunch
of retirement villages, so there were people at home during the day in my
area, and a whole bunch of senior citizens came in to tell me what
was going on. So then I turned on the radio to TV this and
that, and I turned on Howard Stern first, who was also reporting on
it. And then I went to New Jersey one on one point five,
which is a fairly popular station throughout the state of New Jersey. You're familiar,
right, Yeah, okay, and that's where I got my reporting from
my initial reporting. Well, so my birthday is the day before September ten,
right, So that was watching Monday Night football, the open night of
Monday Night football with the Giants against Oh I believe it was Denver. The
Giants had been in the Super Bowl year before and they had lost, but
it was just you know, okay, So they them on Monday night and
they were horrible. I could I could not fall asleep. The Giants were
so bad. So I was awake until three four in the morning. Phone
rings at eight thirty. It's Jay Harrison from Texas and he says, we're
at war. And I don't like to say if that's impossible. My birthday
was yesterday. Then I realized there were people born in December sixth, nineteen
forty one. Yeah, And then I got I grabbed the whole of it.
Would have been Tommy at the time, the big guy. We went
up to Overlook Drive, which overlooks everything, and there it was. It
was unbelievable, and I was ready to go down and take every dime I
had in the bank and buy stock in cell phones because I knew they were
the next big thing. Suddenly, communication well, and that was another thing
that stopped working. By the way, in New York City, the cell
phone stopped working. And it was a big mess, big, huge mess.
Well, there was all kinds of mess in Dallas on November twenty second.
Right, a lot of things just suddenly shut down. But see,
you and I are in proximity to an event, right, You and I
are in proximity to an event, to a place of significance at a time.
And that about all I can say legitimately. I think about this character
that you study in this book, and why is it that I bring this
up? Because I do believe that she worked at Riley Coffee. I'm pretty
sure she had a secretarial or some sort of office clerk responsibilities to visit up
here. You referred to her as a brush with Yes, And I remember
that phrase because she had a brush with Lee Oswald somehow, Yes, And
that phrase stuck with me. And I mean, obviously, this is what
ten fifteen years after the fact, and I'm still remembering it. And I
thought to myself one time, I was thinking that phrase, and I thought,
if everybody that had a brush with Lee Oswald wrote a memoir, I
need to expand my libraries. Yeah, yeah, because it would just be
insane. But the thing is, look, you might have encountered sorry some
years ago, back back in the nineties, Ron something wrote a memoir and
he had a brush with it, and he made it bigger than it was.
And I remember he was selling copies of his book at at some show
one time, and I went over asked him a few questions. Hopeless,
hopeless. But there's the thing. Look like I said, I'm satisfied.
Legitimately, this is the legitimate part of her story in my mind, is
that she got a temp job at Riley. So did he, and they
were in the same company. They might have again encountered one another somewhere.
That might have happened, although not necessarily during work hours, because she should
have been in the office. He was supposed to be what oiling machines?
Uh you know, yeah, okay, greasing machines whatever, lubricating the machines,
all right, Uh down in the factory, sure, why not?
Uh? They was there a lunch nine and a look. She ran into
him at some point. A lot of people have run into a character in
history. Do you know who I met? We've heard these stories before,
you know, I met one day and they'll tell you they met a famous
baseball player, they met an actor, they met a gangster. I happened
to be at a store and the quarterback of this certain team came in.
They'll tell you stuff like that, because yeah, sorry, I wrote up
in an elevator with Joe Balacchi, corner, Von Brown and Frank Field,
who used to be a big time when them in in New York City.
That's you know, that's my I mean I met Bobby Kennedy too, but
a different story, another whole chapter. Right, Uh A lot easy to
talk to somebody that's twelve feet tall and he was, yeah, I think,
yeah, I remember you describing that to me, Like the first time
I actually met you, you described that to me, and it was funny
because you were like you said something, you said, you know, I
actually met him. I said, okay, well I think the way you
phrase it was I actually met Kennedy and I went what and you went yeah,
Bobby. I said, oh okay, and then you said, uh
yeah, And I can tell you that I forget what it was like beams
of light came flowing over him and he was, you know, twelve feet
tall. Oh I was. I was knocked over with the charisma. It
was just waves. So but look, the thing is, though you encountered
them, and people can have a brush with somebody, and I think at
some point, she was watching TV somewhere or had you know, caught some
documentary, or maybe she was watching I don't know, Leonard Nimoy's in search
of who Knows, and she saw Oswald and went, wait a minute,
I think I encountered that guy. And I think this is where her what
I call fan fiction began. And I think she discovered a lot of books
out there about the assassination. Then they were all on the best seller list
at one time or another, and that would have been the case when she
started working on it. Uh. Not to mention, by the way,
that there was a book out there originally that had nothing to do with this
whole cancer weapon plot and everything else. Uh you know that sort of described
this romance. I think it was nineteen ninety nine that might have came out
about something like that anyway before me and late hers with him. Yeah,
okay, I'm I'm not picking up on that one. But look, I'm
after a while just fire well. But but well, here's the thing.
After a while, and I recall the room just off your living room that
was, you know, loaded from Florida ceiling with books, and when you
were done with the chronology, I was there to year that you had everybody
come in and you said, look, you guys want any of this stuff,
take it off my hands. Uh, And you were, you know,
just please let me empty this room because you had floor to ceiling everything
in there from the original three hundred page report, you know, which was
in five volumes, you know, from the FBI. I think, uh,
to god knows who's books on this and that, I mean good ones,
bad ones? You name it all up and down in this one room.
Who's who's report? The gambling report? Yeah, gambling I was referring
to write. You had a printed version of that on your shelf. That's
another Your listeners may have no awareness of the story. That was an absolute
governmental fraud. Intended to sell the story because you know the FBI DIA the
gambling report, it's five volumes. When somebody says five volumes, you think,
you know the Encyclopedia Britannica and back then and the five volumes back if
you if you type them single space on our normal word document, they would
fill sixty pages and the end of it, the last part would have been
filled up with the I mean pages, page after page were taken up with
statements that this case will be open for all times, which it is.
You know, we're going to get to the bottom. I mean, there
was there were disclaimers that again took up space, you know, not unlike
Larry Crayford's testimony why not you know, or roof Pain's nonsense. They never
asked a half of the questions that should have been asked. But I wasn't
doing the question. Yeah, no, of course not. But look,
we've been had this for almost an hour and uh and and I and I
really appreciate you taking this time, especially because you've been over this a bunch
of times. I'm just trying to point out that, I mean, basically,
at a certain point there you had read everything there was to read,
and you wrote something that again you know, there there's two thousand pages of
what uh index to your chronology. That chronology itself is thirty thousand, right,
so you know, two thousand pages though, which is again the length
of that ridiculous thing that Vince Bugliosi put out, which I'm one of the
few people that I know. It took me a while though, because I
kept falling asleep trying to read this thing. Uh, you know, I
actually went through the whole thing and the disk. And I can't find anybody
else who admits public lead that they didn't read at all. But I can't
find any why you said they read it all? My story? He called
me, Vince Boyosi called me, and he wanted my address so he can
send me a copy of the book. I don't know if I should do
it, because I think you and your your staff on the on your newsletter,
I'm going to tear it apart, I said staff. But he's talking
about he thought he thought there were fifteen thousand people getting the quarterly, when
the never never more than three hundred, and that was this one little burst
of three hundred. But he eventually sent it to me and it showed up
in this grimy mailing bag. And when when ups product, what the heck
is this? Oh, that's Boiosi's book. I put it under the table
on on my front deck. I had a little TV table out there,
and it's doing. It sat there, and it sat there and it got
more grimy. Eventually I brought it in the house, going the bag,
I put it on eBay or Amazon. Grimy comes in the grimy bag I
received in it. The book is new. The bag is grimy, and
it's all somebody paid dirty bucks for it. I got to read it,
but I did use it. I was with Haraldo Rivera on the fiftieth anniversary
in twenty thirteen for two hours, and I knew he was going to come
at me, you know, with you know, all cylinders firing. And
he said something like, all right, so I'm going to ask you what
you got out of all of this. So he introduced me vaguely, and
I said, I want to thank you for having me, because you had
the guy on that wrote the little that little book. He said, what
little book? I said, Boiosi. That book was two thousand pages.
He said, yeah, and my chronology was thirty two thousand. And he's
that his producer is pointing to the script that he's we're y're supposed to be
reading from two. Oh my god. Well that's thing that changed the whole
dynamic. And you know, actually we found agreement on a lot of things.
He didn't subscribe to the quarterly though, but that's okay, look on
board. But I love that he thinks you had a staff because it was
hilarious. Won't used to print out exactly the number because I've asked him several
times. You got an extra one laying around over the years. He doesn't
because he printed out exactly as many as he needed. Okay, I don't
even have you don't even have copies, right, and the computers, some
of them were printed on Wong gone. Yeah, that's just a memory.
But they were fun to do and the people. I got to say,
the people were wonderful people. I mean I made friendships through that quarterly Wow
to this day, to this day, a decent number not enough, perhaps,
but a decent number of them read my mysteries now and it's just Walt.
When the next one comes out, nailed to me, I'll sign you
check as the deal. Oh there you go, you know. Oh,
I hope you get to sell a lot of the Judith Baker books when you're
in Dallas. If you run out, please give give out my email I
address. I also have twenty copies of Warrant Emissions still sitting here. I
sold one today, and of course the chronology on CD it's here, right.
I love the Warrant Omission. By the way. That's that if you
search online it's the red covered book. And you still have the hardcover books,
right, yeah, yeah, yeah, right. So I just want
to make sure you look. And I would be more than happy if people
bought that. I think it is eye opening again. Uh, you know
this is where I literally get the phrase from. You know it should have
called it the Dullest Commission because of Walt's study of the Warrant Commission there.
Uh in the Warrant Oh mission? Okay, great book. Also the Kennedy
Execution. Gotta say, you know, the opening part of the Kennedy Execution
is one of those things that if you do read it and you are paying
attention and you don't fly right by it, it tells you a lot in
the opening of that book. I'm not gonna say what. I'm not gonna
say why, but I'm telling you now it's one of those things that needed
to be said and had not been had previously. It will be a learning
experience for readers, Yes, absolutely, And look, you want learning experience,
You want to really delve into this, you want to get lost.
I still have yet to read the entire chronology. I have gone back to
it and I've had to go back over parts, and I've looked to it
as a reference, and it is a reference, but it's not just a
reference. Okay, you do have You probably still have some of those other
CD ROMs too. A lot of people not even using CDs anymore. Ball
you know, I mean times keep changing. Uh you know you talked about
the computers. I'll tell you what was really funny. It's for a while
there he decided they wanted to write the the chronology on one type of computer.
He bought a couple of them and stuck him in the closet, and
that way, when he wore one out, he could just transfer over to
the next. Uh. That's a true story. And yeah, I used
to love it though. Any day I would call you. I don't know
if you realize this, but whatever day it was, our conversations would always
open with you telling me about what happened that day, whatever the date was,
uh years ago today, I was a day I came home from the
last vacation I took September eighteenth, twenty eighteen. So it's been five years
since I've been out of here, thanks to you know who laying on the
floor here. But I've always stayed with dates, always always stayed with dates.
Uh. They just I've done a chronology. I did a chronology in
World War Two on the Eastern Front. I mean that was that was a
task. I did a chronology on the Yankees from the day I was born
for fifty years forward. It's fun to do for me, right, And
you've done a lot of a little bit tedious, but I try to make
it educational and fun, right, So you you know, and and even
look, you've read, you've written a lot of things on a bunch of
pieces of history. The Kennedy thing is one thing that really took up your
life for quite a while because every day you were working on that chronology.
But there's a variety of things you can find under Walt Brown's name. Look,
if you don't want to get into the Kennedy thing, that's fine.
How about mysteries and you know a little bit of fiction that might have some
interesting hints at stuff that he might have spent some of his time on.
In that fiction. What is the Mickey Mantle Mystery was the one that stood
out to me. It's got the baseball card on the front cover. I
think that was the second in the series, and since then there's been eleven
more published, and I'm working on the last one that was published. The
title was Pore Derbs r Pore Derbs nice. It was about a high tech
business establishment. But that's fun, that makes sense, that makes sense.
Look, and that's for fun. But if you want to get into some
other stuff where you want to again the fact checking, the checking on reality
versus somebody's story. And in her own words, Judith Berry Baker, in
her own words, I am gonna have copies of it available when I go
to Dallas, and I'll tell you something. Even if you guys want one
before then, contact me. I'll figure out a way. If I got
to send you my copy, I will whatever. I'll get it to you
and in Dallas tell you what I might be able to I don't know.
Include some other stuff along with that book. Give you a present along with
Walt's book. I want you to read this book because if you're interested in
this case and you see how people are taking her seriously, you gotta know
that they got to stop. It's got to come to an end, because
it's ridiculous. You know, we got enough problems sorting through whatever happened to
this secret service guy's memory. That guy's memory. Who knows is it?
You know? Is it malicious in nature? When the guy's changing his statements.
I'm not saying that, but it doesn't help us, okay, And
none of this stuff is going to help us if we're concentrating on fan fiction.
I mean, if you want to read fiction about the Kennedy assassination,
I'm not going to recommend Stephen King's pilot garbage. I hated that, you
know, but there are other fictional things out there about Kennedy if you want,
you want to get into that, sure, how about virtual JFK.
If Kennedy had lived, what would have happened? Really? You know,
you want to get into stuff like that. Cool? Great, But you
know, recognize the trial of Oswald. Well see, now there's where I
was going to go next, because that was actually your first That was your
first work on this, wasn't it. Yep? Yeah, which good as
it may seem. I did that for closure. I just said, I'm
gonna sit down, I'm gonna write the trial, see how it plays out,
and then I'm done. I can stop reading. Okay. I read
listens seven. I read that six times. That's that's how bad it got.
And people read was supposed to be the last one. They're the only
one closure, And I can do something else. And you know you've mentioned
about when you called and I was working on a chronology that was seven and
a half years of work, right, and during those seven and a half
years, and he conclude a mass when it's about twenty four hundred days.
I suppose I took forty days off. That's it, because everything that was
there had to be fresh. Was when I read a statement by X that
that might have corroborated something that WHY said or contradicted something that Z said,
and I had to I had to go to both of those. I had
to from X to Y and next to Z. And it was challenging.
And I had taken a day off, forty days off at seven and a
half years, right, put in hours on that computer. Ill, like
you said, I worem out, Yeah, And look, I wasn't even
doing any of the work, Okay. I saw some of the work as
you were working on and occasionally again when I would stop by your house for
whatever reason, and we didn't live close, so it was not something I
couldn't stop by there all the time. I would have if I could have,
but usually around November, around the assassination weekend in there somewhere I would
stop by and a couple other times maybe too, but either way, you
show me some stuff. Whatever it was, it felt like ten years to
me and I wasn't even doing the work. I mean, hell, that
was a long piece of work you did there. You know. I want
to give out out to Brian Erney. He was the guys who would have
met and does get together. Yeah. He was the one that said take
a break and start indexing it. An eight months later, I was done
indexing. I had Brian died five years ago and it was just a horrible
moment when it happened. And I miss him every day. You know.
He's one of those people that you know, like John Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy,
Brian. You miss him every day. No, I remember Brian.
I remember Dale. I remember you know. There was this lady that was
writing a piece for the New York Times. I can't remember her name.
Uh. You know, there were different people that were there at different times.
Dale was here last Sunday for my birthday. Oh there you go.
He still comes here four times. He had Dale happen from the Albany area,
who's a an excellent student of the case and he's very generous. You
know if he finds a book he likes him by five of them, give
him to his friends here, read this, read this, read this.
Uh yeah, he's a nice gay. You know. One time he offered
to give me a computer. I know I used to give. I gave
books out when I would go to your house. Sometimes I would drop a
box of books on your table and say, yeah, you know, you
guys missing any of these? You need one of these. I because I
would have extras, you know, I'd pick up stuff from a library,
sales or whatever. I pick it up cheap, and I'd say, well,
look, you know, let's we all know we're going to invest hundreds
of dollars a year in books, in whatever it is we can get our
hands on. Let me try and bring a few around, and I would
just give them to people you know that I knew would put them to use.
I only gave you one book, I think one time I had something.
You were like, wait a minute, I don't have that one anymore,
And but that was it, like one books giving up what you were
just talking about. Your listeners might not realize, but the people who are
at the core of getting to the bottom of what happened have made massive sacrifices
in terms of time, in terms of family, in terms of cost.
Yeah, the medical guys are making tons of money to begin with. But
still yeah, still, I you know, people became known as Kennedy widows
because you know, the wives just couldn't take You're going to Dallas again,
You're going here, going there? But you know I went to I gave
two keynotes in Europe wounder full events but expensive, right, and you know
you don't have two piles of vacation money. You have one, and I'm
using it to speak in Liverpool. I'm not going to Disney or something like
that. And the people that are legit, not not the not the imitators
or the phonies or the people to see things and photographs that aren't there,
but the real legitimate people who've been at a long time. I mean I
put in thirty years and that was plenty. Uh. They may the sacrifice
is massive, absolutely massive, and they're still at it and some of them
are are older than my seventy six years and I don't know how they do
it, but to do it, there's a variety of people. And yeah,
there is a great deal of sacrifice that goes in. And it's not
just in time and money, but like you said, in relationships, who's
gonna put up with you if they're not mutually interested in this right on a
daily basis? You know? Uh, and that's true. Look I mentioned
and I was going to bring this up. And since you kind of brought
up the relationships angle of it, you know, I brought Yeah, two
women I brought with me to go see Walt, and usually I would go
by myself for a reason, uh, you know, because they would just
sit there their head spinning. We would sit there and have these discussions.
We're having the discussions after the work. This isn't the work. This is
just the Hey, let's commiserate over what it is. As we had to
suffer through. I had to read this. Yeah, I was digging through
that. Have you been through this pile of photographs? Sure? Have you
been through these documents? Yes? I mean and and somebody who was not
engaged in that, it's insufferable. Oh, absolutely, you know we went
on our right. No, this wasn't a bunch event. This was from
when you got there to when you left. And nobody ever looked at their
watch at seven at night. I remember one time I got there at about
noon, and I'm sure I didn't leave there before nine, you know what
I mean just talking to you the whole time. Pretty much everybody else kind
of it were it were just wonderful people who gave the time, uh you
know, you know, showed up, put into time, and and their
their input was always sought right well. I you know, I always wanted
to know what new question people had, especially oh you know when when you
hear so. I always thought it was great when it was like I only
got into this last year, and I'd go, oh great, what is
it that that interests you? What is it that's catching your attention? Already?
You're fresh? You know, what is the new thing for you?
I used to love that, you know. But uh, but the veteran
guys, of course, like I said, check this off your list.
You have you been through these books? Have you been through that? Did
you already go here? Did you already go there? Have you been to
New Orleans yourself? You know, I mean you're somebody who actually went to
Russia. But you know that's another story, man. There is just so
much to it. But anyway, I really want people to read this.
Judith very Baker book. There's a lot more to Waltz writing his history everything.
Of course, obviously you get a hint of it here. I mean
chronologies on World War Two, chronologies on the Kennedy case, chronologies, yes,
indeed, hey, mysteries. Uh, and how many books? Actually,
I mean if we count the chronology as one book, let's just say,
even though that's not fair and it's uh, I got a CD rom
of it right behind me over here. Yeah, I'm doing that for you
guys listening at home because we're not on video tonight. But anyway, I've
got one behind me. But if we were to say, let's see,
how many books do you have? You got the People v. Oswald,
which by the way, is much better than the TV show they put out
a few years before that. Really, I did not like the TV show.
You ever see the TV thing? Yes? Yeah, okay, but
Walt's book is better. Okay, but it is of course fictionalized because Oswald
never got a trial. Okay. Like I said, there's fiction on the
Kennedy case you should read. I think it's pretty good. It's thought provoking.
It's interesting to imagine what would have happened, what could have happened,
what should have happened. But let's now go into the other fiction, because
unfortunately we got to clear a lot of that stuff away. I mean,
Walt, it never ends with the did the Secret Service agent shoot him from
the front seat Annie Oakley style? You know, it never ends with the
hey, maybe he faked his death. You know, I'm I'm often curious
at how it is they're saying that, actually Kennedy became Jimmy Carter. Did
you know that one? I'm sure you did. Okay, Yeah, JFK
went back into the presidency as Jimmy Carter. Look you can see on the
pictures they kind of look the same. Yeah, this is the craziness that
we get, all right, And yeah, cancer weapons and no, he
actually was going to disclose aliens. They killed him because he smoked pot.
They killed him because he slept with the wrong woman. Now that's almost plausible,
but not necessarily as plausible as they like to make it, because man,
when did this guy have time to run the country with all of his
escapades? All right, Look, there's real information that can be gotten.
There's entertainment, of course, and you can read the National Inquirer and sometimes
they publish interesting stuff, But for the most part. Fan fiction is only
helpful if you understand and that it's fan fiction. And Judith Berry Baker,
in her own words again, uh, provides you with a really quick way.
It's not even a thick book or anything. It's it's not super challenging,
although you have to have familiarity unfortunately with her story a bit. And
uh, you know, how about some known realities. Yeah, go ahead,
it's footnote it all the way along. Yes, indeed, Batte,
Yeah, no footnotes all the way through, but all your work is out
there. Yeah, challenge but anyway, well, i'll give you the final
word on this. We'll close it out because now we're getting toward what we
had an hour and twenty minutes here, and I'm sorry I kept you so
long. But look, we can sit back, we can reminisce and have
fun with a lot of stuff if you want. But we'll get into other
discussions in the future. Yeah, we're gonna have to do it, absolutely,
we'll do it again before November. Maybe we'll focus on some more productive
things. And and look, I'm not saying that Walt's book is not productive.
It is. It'll allow you to clear something away again in the same
range as well. You know, how about the cowboy that killed him?
How about you know James Files? You know he got out of prison and
I haven't heard from him. Have you heard from James Files anywhere? New
It's addition subtraction. Well, anyway, Judith Verry Baker, in her own
words, Walt Brown is the author of that book, although Judy kind of
authors it two because he had to include her words, right, he had
to quote her, so PhD edited correct her thoughts. So what would you
like to say in closing here, Walt bro I hope she doesn't take it
personally if she wants to read through my stuff and be critical Maki. So
I'm sure she can find something. But I've been on this trick since the
day it happened. She would claim she has two two sides of every story,
and this side needs to be heard because we've got to get back to
reality basics. The answers are there, but you're not going to get them
out of her book. There you go. Couldn't have said it better myself,
So once again walk around. Oh you know what, well, we
didn't give out your email address. If people want to get a hold of
you, if they would like any of the copies of let's say you said
you have some of the Kennedy execution, yes or no. I got a
few of those. I got two d but you got them too, and
I got Warren omissioned, right, And of course theology, Uh it's the
email address is k I A S as in sam k I A S JFK
at aol dot com. So it's k I A S which and know it
all JFK aol dot com. There you go and at aol dot com.
You know what. I'm gonna put a link to that in with the show
notes, so you'll be able to go down and click on it and go
ahead and email Walt directly, get in touch with him, and who knows,
maybe you'll even make you a deal if you want to get a couple
of these things together. Uh, definitely worth it. I advise, of
course, the Judith Ferry Baker book. I recommend the chronology. I recommend,
actually I recommend all of Walt's writing on the case for sure. And
he's just an excellent resource and one that Yeah, I think a few other
people are not bothering to check in with him lately, but they should because
he had a lot of stuff already set out for them that they could have
saved a lot of time on if they had just gone to him first.
Anyways, let's leave it at that again, Judith Ferry Baker in her own
words, Walt Brown, PhD. Yes, indeed, but a guy from
New Jersey that that I also happen to know. And there there you go,
double endorsement. Right anyway, guys, thank you, thanks, thank
you, especially to the listeners and especially to the people that care about JFK,
because his memory right now, in the divided state of our country,
his memory is more powerful than it was in November twenty three, nineteen sixty
three. Absolutely true. There's there's things that have to be done. Absolutely
true. And maybe next time we'll even talk about RFK Junior's run. But
we'll get to that next time. Wall Brown, everybody, thank you,
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there, now go there, now go there, now go ahead. Called
in the Truth about the Day of a Assassination? Right, well, what
do you want to know Judie Baker's wild claim Oswald girl rounds he knew Ruby
and Barry answer weapons? Really, I imagine I could claim I have four
wheels. It doesn't make me a wagon. But okay, Oswald was on
the joltan and trying to prevent the murder of John Kennedy. Come on,
now, has it real effort on the Day of a fascination? Go into
her claims. Go to Amazon dot com, enter Judith Baker in her own
words. You'll get results for a digital copy of a book where Walt Brown
utilizes her own words and the known evidence in the case to get at well
a different perspective. Let's say you can get Judith Arry Baker in her own
words from the author himself, signed if you request it by contacting doctor Brown
at KIA s jfk at aol dot com. It's a fun book and it
actually dissects the many, many fantastic claims Judith Arry Baker in her own words.
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