Well, the deed has been done. The Iron Claw has been watched by
your co chairman as well as T Diddy, Tim Sheridan, our esteemed guest
and a cinephile in his own right, so it's great to have him at
the table. It's fittingly we're at Texas Roadhouse outside the theater because I just
couldn't get enough of watching the van Erics eat ribs in that movie. I
eat ribs and burgers and corn, so much corn in that film. Have
you ever seen people eat more in a movie in your life? It honestly
looked pretty delicious. Maya that some of the dinners that missus von Eric made
look quite lovely, Doris or Dottie. They can call in her Dottie,
which I've never heard before. I guess that was her nicknames. So Boss,
the only opinion that matters about this movie is ours. Yes, we
heard Holt Mcalene, who plays Fritz von Eric on The rest Observer Josh Nation's
RESCU Observer punch Out show, acknowledge the truth of the matter in terms of
you know, the indispensable version of this story. Your immediate reaction not good?
Not good? Tell me more. I will say this and I'm not
blowing smoke up his ass. The best part of the movie is Holt as
Fritz. He does a great job as Fritz, and he's he's scary.
It's funny. It's kind of funny how he talked about in some of those
interviews about how he sort of identified with him more and like he would talk
about how he could see the more human side and how he was just trying
to do the best for his family. Yeah, that didn't come across in
the movie at all, not at all. He came across as exactly as
we have talked about him as a guy who who was willing to use his
sons to get what he wanted, no matter the cost. And I just
I mean, it was a choppy movie. It didn't really flow. And
honestly, the thing I realized, and it's funny, I didn't realize when
we were doing our thing, but I realized the whole story it is Fritz
tell him from Kevin's point of view, it's just like who cares, Like,
I mean, yeah, he he kind of feels the especially when Zach
Effron Sure food's coming up, thank you, Especially when they when Zach Effron
plays Kevin Van Eric, like he basically has had a lobotomy. Yeah,
fucking catatonic the whole movie. It was strange because it starts out as as
his movie, and then it was Kevin's movie, and then and then Carrie
shows up and we are and that's not until like maybe a third into it,
and we're expected to like really care about him, and he's supposed to
be the main character, and then you realize, yeah, it's it's been
Fritz all along. But I thought the I did not think this was a
very good movie. I'm going along with the boss here. I thought that
I thought the acting was great. I thought that everyone put in a great
performance. A whole it was was quite good, but the and I thought
the director shot the hell out of the movie. But the one thing that
really frustrated me was writing. And there was so much exposition and so much
expository dialogue. Sometimes they hold I'm sorry, Fritz would say what's going to
happen? And then we'd hear the ring announcer say the exact same thing,
So we got the same thing multiple times. And this happened many times in
the movie. And it was just kind of frustrating because it is a fascinating
story. I just didn't think this was a particularly well written version of it.
Naturally, I'm going to be the guy at the table that says it
could have been about this, knowing the actual story as we do. And
I think that the movie trips on itself is because for whatever reason, they
don't want to talk about the kids drug problems. Yes, and I'm talking
about recreational drugs. I'm talking about the fact that Carrie van eric was facing
prison time for drugs the day before he killed himself, and he was basically
not wanting to go to jail over that and other tax matters and other matters.
You know, the van Erks are like Ga, there's that sort of
you know, domineering father figure and the pressure that places. But the reason
it took these guys over the top is it was compounded by the recreational drug
culture of the eighties and these kids had so much placidyls in their system at
all times. It almost if Kevin was fucked up time in the movie,
then I could see why Zach Effron played it that way. But we don't
know that. We haven't seen that, Like we from the outset when he
meets what's his wife's name. When we see Pam for the first time,
like he just seems like adults and he just doesn't seem like he knows what's
going on or how to interact. But knowing now that he had drunk problems,
obviously that's gonna play into it. But we aren't told that or are
we shown it. The only time we've ever shown it is when is when
the guy who plays Mike crushes up the pills? Well they have they have
Carrie crush up after it, Kurt yea right, carry does Mike Mike took
the pills And again it's the whole like because he lost his foot when in
reality he was he'd already been popped for trying to get stuff across the border
in Mexico. I wish they told that story with UH, with Fritz calling
the UH calling the news. He called so Kerry got caught and Fritz called
the newspaper and had them change the story. Does he called the police too?
Or police? Right? He called the police? Yeah, just hold
mad strings to get Carry off the hook. So there's always it's always tough
for a film like this to take on a multiple character, multiple decade story.
Would you have rather seen this as a mini series or a limited series
or a longer movie to just tell more of the story, more in depth.
This seemed this seemed like about the level that I knew, like surface
level, this is what happened to the von Erics, but I didn't,
I didn't know any of the behind the scenes like you guys usually do.
Would you rather see a longer form storytelling? I mean, given that we
did six months of shows and almost one hundred hours worth of content, I
would say yeah. I also think there are ways too. And again I
just I'm only really realizing this now, but really, at least for the
way that this story was told, the emotional the stories with Fritz. The
story is with Fritz because it's it's it's about him trying to be a wrestler.
It's about him trying to be a promoter, trying to be a champion,
trying to be a champion, but then him also trying to promote his
sons to championship and then ultimately giving it to his son and just kind of
like just never just he's constantly failing and sacrificing his own his own stuff for
the sake of money and glory, It's about him at one point in his
early life, sitting there and painting a picture in his head of the house.
They're going to have, the family, they're going to have, the
athletic success, they're going to have. And when life continually tells him you
have taken the wrong exit ramp, yeah, he doubles down, and everyone
suffers. Everyone, They don't even it's funny, you know. They they
keep talking about the von Eric curse, the von Eeric curses, Fritz von
Eric. Yeah, it is the curse. You know. That's the thing
about curses is, you know, storytellers can never resist a curse. But
it's almost always very specious and almost always a crutch to talk about a curse
when really, as you pointed out a lot during the Lamentable Tragedy, this
is a series of choices, right, a series of choices, and look
more tyranny. You know, you got to get a girl from a hyde
pack and there I understand, son of daughters of Boston City councilor Joe Tarney,
who was a legend in the city. But you know, she offers
nothing I mean she I mean relative relative to what they could have done with
the Doris character. I'm not blaming her. They offer about as much as
Doris offers. See, I don't know. I think Doris is a much
more. You can do a lot more with Doris as a compelling character who's
sort of like this helpless co pilot on this journey of destruction. I think
I think she probably was a lot less, sort of like silent in the
background than they portrayed. I think there's a lot more they could have done.
I was surprised that you'd bring in an actress of her stature and have
her say almost nothing the whole movie. I would say that there probably was
a lot more, and I don't think someone like her would sign on to
do such a just surface performance. I assumed that there was more in the
script, and when they realized that, hey, we really need to focus
on Kevin, maybe some of that family so would have gone away. So
I remember. But I also say, and also you never know, I
mean in terms of in terms of timing and stuff. I mean, you
know, you want to flow. And I've said it a million times that
you know, you write a script, you get it to a point that
it's the best that it can be, and then you film it and you're
starting from scratch. You got to kind of tear that script apart, and
you got to realize what's filmable. And then when you finally have everything that
you need to make the movie, you got to start over all over again
and rewrite the story as you're editing it. So we don't even know,
like it could be a million different reasons why there's not more of her in
the final film, but it's it's just like you know, I everyone's one
dimensional. There's nobody except for honestly, except for Fritz. Fritz is the
is the guy who you although you want, you kind of want to see
I want to see more of him. I want to see more of of
kind of his journey in it, because everyone else is just kind of there
and they just kind of like you know, they they act helpless. And
again, there's not even at the very end, is there any real responsibility
taken by anybody, you know, no one. Thing that was frustrating is
that, you know, if it's going to be for Insan's story, we
don't see him succeed at all. We see him get the he gets a
car in the beginning and says that this is the start of something and then
we cut to family. So I want to see how he got to be
a success, because obviously he lives on a ranch. It looks like it's
worth a lot of money. It's a pretty piece of land in Texas,
so right, But all they do is harp on him trying to get the
kids the strap. But it's like they're already making millions of dollars. They
act like until they get the world title. This family isn't off to the
races. But to Tim's point, you already can tell they're living rather opulently
by you know, is that classic Texas blah blah blah, three hundred thousand
acres or whatever the fuck you need out there, and you know they're eating
at the long dinner table outside, you know, and all that shit.
But we know that they want to have the title because Fritz tells us and
then again and again, and it was just I mean, the funny thing
is I don't want to interview about that, but you know the funny thing
is on on the old world class television shows, they would always call these
guys uncrowned champions, the uncrowned world champion, So in a weird way,
it does kind of play into that you know, maybe not, maybe not
exactly. It might have not have been a choice or not. But well,
it's to the formula of the time where you would have the world champion
come through your area, and you know, if he was a heel,
which he usually was, yes, do great, thank you make it by
with by the skin of his teeth. The champion leaves the area having just
hung onto the strap so that he leaves behind him. Of on Eric boy
who can claim to his local area that he's the rightful world champ if not
for X, Y and Z rule breaking or the referee was distracted or he
pulled a fast one. Harley was an expert at that and on this movie.
Yeah, I mean Hardy was a disaster Harley. And then and then
you know where I'm going after that. I know where you're going after that.
The the thoughts on Harley, who did you say it looked like by
the way, uh, ned Beatty, total ned Beatty, Like I would
have preferred Ned Beatty playing pugging. Well, I'd take a Warren Beatty at
this point, like it was a disaster. I mean, also it's it's
fair I was at a disaster because because you're getting so we we we know.
You know Harley Race, especially during this period that yes he had you
know, he had a belly, but he was a barrel chested, strong
motherfucker. He intimidating in this game. It was a fat slob. You
know, you might as well have cast me playing fucking Harley Race. I
would have had a better voice. Yeah, well it didn't sound like him
at all. No, it didn't. When it comes to food, we'll
put a pause on it, all right, So food's at the table,
you have to pardon some eating noises. But that's that's the Texas way of
the course when it comes to the laps man anyway. So Harley was just
yeah, you know, these are wrestling nitpick things. But I do wonder
if the general population sees who they picked to play Harley and Flair and says
like this is taking me out of the movie, or if that's just a
wrestling fan thing. What did you think tim? I liked Flair, I
really did. I thought he was incredibly goofy, But I also know that
he was He's put in there and he has an incredibly long promo that he
does, and it's done for wrestling fans. That is not done for you
know, mom and pop, who are going to see the movie on Christmas.
Mom and Pop, go see the movie on Christmas. We need more
films about wrestling. But I liked Rick Blair. I thought he was The
film has a great Christmas message. There is a Christmas scene and by making
it a Christmas movie, So I hope we watch this every year. You
were gonna you were gonna say about Flair, Oh, I thought I thought
he was wonderful. I thought he was silly. I thought he was over
the top. And yeah, it did take me out of the movie,
as I'm sure it took anyone out because it goes on forever. But I
enjoyed watching him not at all. I hated it. I immediately I was
sitting next to you in the theater, and immediately you had a you made
a noise. I went, oh, oh, the top of his head,
I mean the head they're supposed to like go up, it's like flat
the hole. I will say this too. The hair pieces in this movie
were atrocious. Zach Effron's hair I mean, I guess Kevin had a bowl
cut, but it is distracting. I mean, if Michael's haircut was was
impressively terrible. David was the worst. Oh yeah, David was the worst.
It was like it was like sting hair, like stiff and immobile,
and we know it wasn't like that, and we you know that the flowing
locks was a key part of the appeal to Von Erics. It's not like
that wasn't central. I mean to say nothing of the fact that Carrie looked
like John Stewart for some reason, so that's a problem. And he's shorter
than everybody else. He looks like Chris. Chris looks more like Chris than
he goes like Kerry. Let me switch this. Let me ask you guys
something positive. What was one little in joke for wrestling that you liked?
Like? I liked the There was a reference to Jim Helwick and I got
I popped for that. What did you pop for? I mean, I
pop not because it's funny, because it's really a dark moment. But they
were sure to slip in there, and I think I know where they got
this from in terms of emphasizing it. You can hear it faintly in the
background after David passes away. Fritz is on the porch talking to the boys,
and they don't show him saying it because they've cut to another scene inside
the house, but you can still hear Fritz in the background say, David
lived seventy five years in his twenty five years, which is something he said
on World Class Television that we just made endless fun of because like it.
It's awful, like these kids died so early they had to live in cat
years basically, you know right that, you know, hey, Fritz,
No he didn't. He barely lived twenty one years. I mean, when
you think about how much time he's had to spend trying to be a pro
wrestler, David was the best of the bunch. I mean, as far
as you know, the full suite of skills to be a successful pro.
There's a reason he was the one to not carry in Line in eighty four
for the title. But it's you know, it doesn't really The movie I
think will really confuse non wrestling fans because they show that, you know,
the bruise of Brody working out the match with the guys in the back.
They show the contrived nature of it and how it's like political to get opportunities.
They don't pretend that wrestling is real. They have Kevin Vannericks's wife even
address it, but when they get in the ring, they act like it's
a life and death struggle and that the outcome of the match was somehow not
expected. As Fritz approaches the boys after the match and sort of speaks like
what happened in the ring was up to them. You know, they always
about how you have to thank you. That'd be great, thank you.
Yeah, yeah, like they would always. You'd always talk about how you
know, you gotta show, you gotta get your chance, and you gotta
and like even Flairs's I'll give you a rematch for the belt, but you
know, backstage is like you don't actually get that. That's not true,
Like you wouldn't say that, it's it's the promoter or it's like you know
Sam Muchnick was saying, you know, we'll give him a rematch or whatever.
All right, So but back to the question, what's something that you
popped for again, I wouldn't say I popped for it, but I was
very, very surprised, and I was honestly happy they had they had the
balls to put in it. The Mike von Eric press conference after he shuffered
toxic shock syndrome, he didn't say cotton Bowl, but they actually had that
scene. And I really didn't think they put that scene in there. That's
wild because because that to me, no, and I this was like the
conclusion I reached after all the hours, was that yet, you know,
if Fritz von Eric only lost Mike with under the same exact circumstances, made
the same decisions about Mike, did the same things about Mike after the toxic
shock syndrome, you know, basically resulting in the same outcome, and none
of the other boys died, Fritz would still be a rather repulsive character.
And then you compound it only adds to the case that all these other kids
harmed themselves as well. Speaking of which I thought, what a twist it
would be if at the end of the film, when Kevin is just like
so despondent over losing everybody, Kevin just kills himself. Who would work or
Fritz kills himself. Really Another part to that I was surprised about is that
you don't have Chris Vaughan Eric in the movie, but you get Jackie Junior.
You get Jackie Jr. In there, and they don't depict not to
say, I need to see the kid drowned out in a puddle outside the
trailer park when Fritz was on the road, which is how he died,
by the way, the electrocution, but they just mentioned him and then they
passing and they have this sorry spoiler, but they have this weird, this
weird moment where where after Carrie shoots himself, he meets up with all his
dead brothers in on a lake at Lake Dallas, I presume, And there's
this moment where he looks down at Jackie Jr. And he like meets him
for the first time basically and goes says, you must be my oldest brother.
And he's still too, and he's like two years old, eternally two
years old. He can't understand how to do any film. Is such a
good point, but I really was, I said, I said to JP,
with that happened, I said, what if as soon as Carrie tells
the little baby boy, you must be my oldest brother, suddenly Jackie just
shoots to the moon like just like he has a rocket in his eyes.
He's just and the whole movie becomes absurd, I said. And I said
that, I said, you know what I prefer actually is they have that
moment they had their little embrace, and all of a sudden, Jackie opens
his mouth and just keeps spreading and he swallows carry. I think that Jackie
should have powered I mean, it says, you're my older brother, so
immediately he should get a title shot. Our father will be okay. I
mean yeah, I think Holt did a great job. I really do.
I he kept he had the gravel in the voice, but he didn't overdo
it, which I feel like it's an interesting choice. I think you could
have gone a little bit deeper in the voice, but it's fine. Yeah,
he sounded a lot more like himself than Fritz, which you know is
a choice. I mean, maybe you can't hold that up for a Maybe
you don't want to do an impression either, which could be a thing,
right, Tim As somebody that you know was, like you said, sort
of surface level familiar with this whole saga. What did you take away in
terms of where to assign blame? Like, how does the movie leave you
feeling about what happened? Oh, I mean it's it's not subtle at all.
It's I mean, it starts out by saying, this is going to
be a story about how this guy pushes his sons in all of the wrong
ways and then just continues to barrel that home for two hours. But I
think larger my problem with it is that it's it's a true story and there's
a there's a flow of events that happen, and the film tries to cram
it all into a very simple structure, and it's just really tough to do
that. It's tough to compact a true story. Like a lot of the
stuff that's in this movie. They use story elements on the show Heals,
like about you know, a wrestling family, and you know, they're able
to take more license with it because it's fiction, but and they don't have
to adhere to the true facts and the timeline. So it's just tough to
tell this story. But yeah, I mean, it's it's Fritz's way.
It's all the blame is on animal. You gotta say that, you know.
I do remember hearing and I don't know how people knew this, if
it's people that got a sneak peek at how the movie was going to be
done, or if it was people reading between the lines and interviews that people
were doing about the movie being put together. But I remember there being buzz
about a shift where suddenly, maybe it was two versions of the trailer where
you suddenly realize it seems like they've changed tack now and they're going to make
this about Fritz doing this to the kids as opposed to Fritz being just another
victim of the curse, right and playing it that way. I feel like
I remember hearing that there was a point where people were like, oh,
wow, they're actually going to make a decision about blame here in a way
that the initial publicity about the film indicated they would try to dodge what they
probably did honestly, and Holte mckelleny has talked about this. He couldn't talk
to Kevin von Erik legally, there's some kind of legal tie up where he
was not allowed to speak to him. According to what he said. Perhaps
Kevin has optioned his rights to his life story or something like that, which
makes it even more curious if this film is built around Kevin the way it
is, like the Dark Side episode was ends up just being about how Kevin
survived, and it's about Kevin. Makes sense. Kevin sits with them,
right, so he's the most compelling guy they have on camera, whereas here
just because they're dead doesn't mean you can't focus the story around them. And
I feel like Kevin is as compelling as he is, he's not the most
compelling. He's like the least compelling character in the whole saga. I've always
felt that about him, like in terms of, you know, like,
in a weird way, he's he's even less compelling. There two, there
are two kind of things about him. Number One, I think he's even
less compelling than Mike and or Chris because they have the tragedy around them.
Yeah, where Kry and Carrie and David are are just much more compelling as
characters because they have just more interesting stories. And then also in a weird
way, in a dark way, he's also less compelling because he did survive.
Well, It's it's easy to hang the story on him though, because
he's the one that survived and you can see all of the bad things that
happened through his eyes. So that's that's the only reason why I would think
to hanging on him, because he Yeah, he's just not compelling. One
thing that I want to say as a positive again is that the actors who
had to wrestle, I thought they did a great job like, it didn't
seem like more wrestling than I expected. Flair, not Harley Race. They
were awful, but the two Jeremy Allen White and Edie and Zach Effron.
Zach looked like a wrestler. He moved like a wrestler. He was in.
Really it was disturbing the kind of shape he was in. It actually
hurt the movie. I think, Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't
think that Kevin in real life was that he's MPEd. In that part,
he was more. He was more like aerobic style body. I mean,
he's definitely was like big, and he was cut, but he wasn't powerliftered
cut. Yeah, I mean, this looks more wiry. He was more
sinewy. But Zach Effron is the Greek god of all the brothers. When
that was Carrie, you know, David was pretty close to the David was
so much taller than Carrie and even Kevin that it really threw it off.
This is only a wrestling fan cares about this ship. I actually think of
all the brothers, David did the best job as far as acting. We
do agree with that. I liked him too. They have a scene in
the bathroo room at a, well, how about Kevin's wedding where Fritz just
decides to take Doris home and fuck her and leave Kevin's wedding, Like,
why is that in the movie? Trying to make him so sweet in that
moment where he's like, oh, that couple reminds me of us being selfish
because he wants to drag his wife away from their son's wedding. A fucker?
Why what what? What? What is that in the movie for?
Honestly, what am I supposed to deduce from that? Or you know,
how does that add to it? I don't know, but doing great?
Thank you, yes, sure, thank you? Yeah, yeah, I
can't take this too it. Yeah, I'm all done, thank you yours,
I am all seven, thank you. Yeah. It just and it's
just a it's a very it's a very disjointed movie. There's no you know,
there's not enough time. I almost wish they gave another hour, Like
I could have actually watched another hour of it and been okay with it because
you see that coming a mile away, you know they yeah, like they
uh, there's just not enough time to really give a shit about anybody.
Yeah, they're only telling this part of the story. It's a big part,
but it's just it's just a snapshot wrestling fans. Of course, no
MJF is in the movie. He even is listed as an executive producer,
which surprised me. I must not have read about that. But he only
appears in the movie for ten seconds as Lance von Eric in the ring while
Kevin stands on the apron another bad hair piece too well, terrible, terrible.
But the fact that they bothered to cast Lance tells me that they wanted
yes, okay, so no rush, but when you guys are ready to
pay part, okay, that's awesome thing, thank you, which tells me
they wanted to get into the Lance thing, which I think is so And
Tim was asking me about this. I think it's so relevatory it it's one
of the things that puts you over the edge about Fritz that Mike dies and
he just plucks some guy named Ricky Vaughn from Portland and makes him a vine
Eric because we need another body. And the fact that he's even a character
in the movie makes me think that not only did they want to tell it,
but they originally had it in the script. I mean, they wouldn't
have like put in that as just a small detail. There must have been
some more going on that had to be cut for time. I mean time,
I hope, I mean never, I mean never know. I meane
the scenes with MJF could have just brought the movie to a standstill and it
just stopped moving. You know, it's a there are a million different things.
I don't I don't think. I feel like I could be wrong,
but I feel like A twenty four is a studio that is like, you
know, if your movie is going to be ten hours long, it's ten
hours long. Like they don't they see very you know, they're much more
creative. They're much more in telling the story, at least from the stuff
that I've seen that that then like worried about, like, well wait a
minute, we got to cut this rud up to two hours otherwise we're not
gonna make any money on it. Tim, What do you think about the
hallmarks of A twenty four? What does that mean to you? Oh,
A twenty boys are very successful, supposedly independent studio, and they seem to
champion art rather than commerce more so, you know, they let their directors
and their filmmakers do what they want, which is which is great. So
I don't know the reason why something would be cut, you know, could
be time. I don't know, but you no A twenty four This seems
very much like their film, a dark, compelling personal story. Yeah,
that's about fucked up people. I'm sorry, Can I swear on the podcast?
Oh we have a Oh you haven't already? You're fucking kidding me.
Yeah. I think the Sportatorium looked pretty good. I think they did a
good job evoking career too. The exterior looked great as well. That building's
been torn down for twenty years now, but they reconstructed it beautifully. Saturday
Friday night at the matches kind of feeling, you know, they got that
across real well, I feel yeah, but I feel like, you know,
we needed we needed just like ten more minutes of the Von Eric of
the boys just getting blitzed, getting high, causing mischief like they were,
you know, they weren't just sitting at the table. That's a misrepresentation of
the von Eric family dynamic that I think is not just something that's excusable because
of the needs of the movie. They were always shouting matches amongst Fritz and
the kids. There was always tensions between Fritz and Doris, you could have
played with that, but instead everybody just sits there docile while Fritz dictates from
the head of the table, which I get why they would do that,
but I think there's so much more that they could have done with those scenes
where all the kids are just sitting there biting their tongue. Yes, sorry,
yes, sir, I mean so simplistic. I also thought, too,
is an interesting choice that we never actually saw any of the tragedies.
None of them are shown. No, you have hints of things cloet carry,
Yeah, the closest we get his carry. We don't see the accident
where he loses his like, we don't even I mean they do a crazy
jump cut or he's just riding the motorcycle and they cut. I mean,
I don't remember how long it took for them after the accident that that they
cut his leg off. But all of a sudden, the next thing we
see is him getting up in crutches and he's got no leg and they don't
even show him crashing right, Like, I really wonder if people in general
that don't know about Kerry Vunerwick's motorcycle crash understand that he crashed the motorcycle because
they play that scene with him driving down the road as almost like a teary
eyd reflection of David's death. They don't even really get across that he's about
to crash. It's like he approaches a car or there's any fast. He's
going very fast. They don't show Dame's like a moment of solitude more than
like impending danger. They don't show David dying. You get a hint of
it beforehand, but you don't show They show Mike ingesting the pills that would
kill him, but again he just kind of like the next thing you get
is you get a like you know, like you either cut to a funeral
or you get like, oh my god, they're dead. You know.
It's very and Mike was disappointed in himself. That's what was said at his
funeral, right, yeah, very Everything was explained to you over the time.
But I want to ask you, so, say this movie does well,
say say the Iron Class starts a wrestling cinematic universe. I mean,
I don't know based on the audience. What do you think the audience we
were at at one o'clock in the afternoon showing okay, but say it does
well next year two years from now? What family in wrestling? Do you
want to see? A story about the hearts or the funks? Hearts would
be good to me. That's kind of like that's like a that's kind of
like a lazy way of doing it, like just oh, what's the next
family? You can do something you do a Kurt Angle movie, which is
actually in the works. It doesn't have to be about a family. I
mean, i'd also I'm trying to think, I don't know, I mean
the McMahon's for God's sakes, yeah for sure. I mean, there needs
to be a Vince movie. I mean, there's always rumors floating around there's
a Netflix series that's gonna come out where he sits down and talks about,
you know, things he's never really talked about, like being indicted and all
that has been requested. Yea, we're back on now. I don't I'm
trying to think of a good one, Like I can't, like, what's
the story I mean Owen Hart, Well, yeah, that's why I said
the heart, Yeah, the heart's overall hearts is the first one that comes
to mind for me. Demolition of course point of view, I agree.
I think you have a third guy, outsider, you know, coming in,
not sure how to coincide with his other demolition teammates, and on his
story that's writing itself as we speak, a man who's on the verge of
possibly passing away. That's true. I mean, that's his story right there.
Soul training, I mean mea sauce. Tim has asked about Max Moon
about sixteen times since we've gotten together. He thought, I do think a
Max Moon story is in. Is maybe a Jerry Lawler, maybe a buck
Zoom Hob, But Man on the Moon has already taken as a title.
I think the gagnes Max on the Moon, Oh shit, shooting the little
things out of his ear right, Max on the Moon. Yeah, I'll
do the Jimmy coming next from Time Laps right from the Time Laps Fan oh
man. I mean, I'm glad the movie got made. I'm glad that
they made some of the decisions they did in terms of training, their focus
on the pall that Fritz cast. Yes, there's so much more there,
man, like you get in. They didn't get into interest. They had
Kevin attack Fritz, when in fact it was Fritz that pulled a gun on
Kevin. After everyone had already died, and he made those comments about how
you know he didn't have the guts to kill yourself like your brother did.
Yeah, and I mean, I know my dad still loved me, but
he did threaten to shoot me in the fucking head and tell me I should
have killed myself. I still stand by that. I wish you'd killed yourself.
I'd take ten. I'd take a Chris over ten of you, you
fucker, nice guy overall. Yeah, it's like people already saying, like
people that don't know wrestling find out about that there was another brother that's not
even depicted that killed himself, and that at that point it's too absurd to
even believe, you know. Yeah, So all that is, there's so
much more like the nineties. It's almost like the nineties tells the story more
than the eighties, even though that David and Mike died in the eighties,
because the nineties is where the salad days are over. It's almost like you
could, you could, like very quickly in ten minutes, explain fast.
Yeah, money and now this is what comes of it, you know,
And yeah, I mean that would be kind of a neat thing. The
idea actually when you think about it, like if you get like you have
a uh you have like a ten minute montage opening all this great stuff newspaper
articles and celebrations, cheering have already died, right well, or you just
have it like you know, yeah you could do that, and then and
then you talk about that and then like you next thing you do is you
cut to like carry Van Eric snort and coke, you know, in a
bathroom. Yeah. The fact that no one snorts coke in the movie is
just completely ridiculous. The fact that nobody does placidyls or painkillers or these things
that had these guys so fucked up they didn't even remember their careers. Jeremy
Allen White did do steroids like I do steroids. There was a point where
he injects himself with a needle and starts moaning and screaming. I didn't know
that it had that effect on you, but uh yeah, you know,
it's like, you know, there's so much in that, and it explained
so much more why Fritz was like he was, because he saw the kids
as fuck ups. Kevin sitting there telling Fritz that he wants to sell to
Jerry Jarrett's exact opposite of what happened. Kevin did not want to sell to
Jerry Jarrett. Carrie did because Kerry wanted nothing to do with running the business
because he was so fucked up all the time. And Kevin was the one
who felt, you know, a little slighted on payoffs, and they made
reference to that, but they act like Kevin was the one trying to engineer
getting the business out of their blood. Really, he was the one who
held on longest, not just because he lived longest, but because he was
the one most likely to butt heads with Fritz about actual business. And here's
Fritz telling Jerry Jarrett and others, you can't do business with my sons.
They are complete drug addicts. They're complete fuck ups. And that not only
does that not come across in the movie, they completely miscast Kevin's culpability,
like in his culpability in creating a mindset with Fritz that his kids just could
not be trusted with anything. They could not be trusted because they just couldn't
stop getting high and making and missing towns, missing shows. As he brought
in a lance, because it's like you don't know if they're going to show
up. In part, you know, it's like, I don't know.
There's so much more complexity to the boys in terms of like the excesses that
they became victims of, and it explains a little bit more. It makes
Fritz less one dimensional when you realize that perhaps he would have put more faith
in the Suns if he could have. But you have to understand how unreliable
they were. Every wrestler that worked with them talked about being in the ring
with them and they're fucked up or they're swinging like it's a real fight because
they're just so non in command of their faculties. Carry Von Eric doing a
sunset flip to the right of Rick Flair and just missing him. Flare stand
there bent over and can sunset flipping an imaginary opponent because he's so high.
Ah. There was one line that Fritz said. I think it was to
Ken, who said, you're forty years old and you still can't take care
of yourself. That was the only allusion to the fact that the Boys could
not be trusted completely right, And it kind of came out of nowhere.
I mean, I feel like I wasn't led to feel that way. It
wasn't n Kevin's a character at all. I mean yeah, I mean he's
very dependent on his wife, who's that, you know, portrayed very favorably.
It almost comes off like a love letter to Pam von Eric at the
but and of course she's the one who endearingly says, isn't it fake?
Oh sorry? What word would you like written? Pre arranged? She says,
to be arranged? Pre arranged amazing. So so there's that, and
there's also this. There's also this sense that Kevin is, like you said,
sort of like this this helpless, this helpless figure. And through the
whole movie he's he's the only one with any perspective on anything. He's just
sitting there staring off in a space, so sad about what's happening. And
he's portrayed as helpless. But it's Fritz who, when Doris doesn't make him
dinner one night, stands there like he's going to just die. On day
seventeen of malnutrition, she says, he comes and says, or do you
dinner? No, I'm painting, and he just stares at her. And
I was like waiting for him to come, she says. She says,
I'm painting and I'm not hungry. Well, what am I supposed to see
and then he said, and then it like dissolved day seventeen. And then
he's eating the table He's like, he's eating like the tablecloth. So he's
the one that's helpless. He's the one that can't, you know, do
anything without Mama Dora. He can't win championships without his sons. He can't
fucking eat without being fed. And she goes, They get divorced, she
moves away, she smokes two packs a day and gambles at the casino in
Mississippi for the rest of her life. She leaves him, and she blames
him, and he sits there by himself with this guy that he hires to
show him how to use windows ninety five, and he expires due to cancer
day trading. You know, it's like they don't get any of that,
none of that, none of that. Thank you very much, thank you.
Yeah. So in closing bus, I mean, see it, see
it, just to get out of your system. See it. Respect Holpe,
Respect Holp because he respects the lapsed fan first and foremost. He did
he did the right thing. And then you know what his performance shows.
I think zach Efron should have listened to the podcast more. And you know,
there's a particular podcast Tim closing Dots. Yeah, see the movie.
It's it's always fun to see uh wrestling at you know, the another part
of the story. So yeah, it's fun, but it's just not very
good. I look I look forward to seeing if it, like you you
you talked about, creates a dialogue about what is this story and maybe a
demand for like more clarity and and and it sparking a curiosity in people that
otherwise didn't realize that there were such you know, dramatic and weighty things happening
in this phony world. But if that doesn't happen, I feel like it'll
just sort of we're gonna an ephemeral thing, right, or maybe it's just
gonna PLoP and go away and maybe uh never be heard from again. The
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