WEBVTT 1 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:33.759 Well, the deed has been done. The Iron Claw has been watched by 2 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:36.479 your co chairman as well as T Diddy, Tim Sheridan, our esteemed guest 3 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:38.759 and a cinephile in his own right, so it's great to have him at 4 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:43.359 the table. It's fittingly we're at Texas Roadhouse outside the theater because I just 5 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:46.000 couldn't get enough of watching the van Erics eat ribs in that movie. I 6 00:00:46.439 --> 00:00:50.840 eat ribs and burgers and corn, so much corn in that film. Have 7 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:54.079 you ever seen people eat more in a movie in your life? It honestly 8 00:00:54.079 --> 00:00:58.000 looked pretty delicious. Maya that some of the dinners that missus von Eric made 9 00:00:58.320 --> 00:01:02.479 look quite lovely, Doris or Dottie. They can call in her Dottie, 10 00:01:02.520 --> 00:01:10.319 which I've never heard before. I guess that was her nicknames. So Boss, 11 00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:14.920 the only opinion that matters about this movie is ours. Yes, we 12 00:01:15.000 --> 00:01:19.400 heard Holt Mcalene, who plays Fritz von Eric on The rest Observer Josh Nation's 13 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:23.280 RESCU Observer punch Out show, acknowledge the truth of the matter in terms of 14 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:33.239 you know, the indispensable version of this story. Your immediate reaction not good? 15 00:01:33.719 --> 00:01:37.840 Not good? Tell me more. I will say this and I'm not 16 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:41.879 blowing smoke up his ass. The best part of the movie is Holt as 17 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:45.920 Fritz. He does a great job as Fritz, and he's he's scary. 18 00:01:45.959 --> 00:01:49.319 It's funny. It's kind of funny how he talked about in some of those 19 00:01:49.319 --> 00:01:53.799 interviews about how he sort of identified with him more and like he would talk 20 00:01:53.840 --> 00:02:00.959 about how he could see the more human side and how he was just trying 21 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:02.719 to do the best for his family. Yeah, that didn't come across in 22 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:07.280 the movie at all, not at all. He came across as exactly as 23 00:02:07.360 --> 00:02:13.719 we have talked about him as a guy who who was willing to use his 24 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:20.439 sons to get what he wanted, no matter the cost. And I just 25 00:02:20.599 --> 00:02:23.280 I mean, it was a choppy movie. It didn't really flow. And 26 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:28.000 honestly, the thing I realized, and it's funny, I didn't realize when 27 00:02:28.000 --> 00:02:32.759 we were doing our thing, but I realized the whole story it is Fritz 28 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:37.479 tell him from Kevin's point of view, it's just like who cares, Like, 29 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.960 I mean, yeah, he he kind of feels the especially when Zach 30 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:47.199 Effron Sure food's coming up, thank you, Especially when they when Zach Effron 31 00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:52.000 plays Kevin Van Eric, like he basically has had a lobotomy. Yeah, 32 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:58.560 fucking catatonic the whole movie. It was strange because it starts out as as 33 00:02:58.639 --> 00:03:04.800 his movie, and then it was Kevin's movie, and then and then Carrie 34 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.319 shows up and we are and that's not until like maybe a third into it, 35 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:12.080 and we're expected to like really care about him, and he's supposed to 36 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:14.400 be the main character, and then you realize, yeah, it's it's been 37 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.879 Fritz all along. But I thought the I did not think this was a 38 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:22.360 very good movie. I'm going along with the boss here. I thought that 39 00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.479 I thought the acting was great. I thought that everyone put in a great 40 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:31.280 performance. A whole it was was quite good, but the and I thought 41 00:03:31.639 --> 00:03:35.400 the director shot the hell out of the movie. But the one thing that 42 00:03:35.439 --> 00:03:40.680 really frustrated me was writing. And there was so much exposition and so much 43 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:47.360 expository dialogue. Sometimes they hold I'm sorry, Fritz would say what's going to 44 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:51.800 happen? And then we'd hear the ring announcer say the exact same thing, 45 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.479 So we got the same thing multiple times. And this happened many times in 46 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:59.280 the movie. And it was just kind of frustrating because it is a fascinating 47 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:03.000 story. I just didn't think this was a particularly well written version of it. 48 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:06.879 Naturally, I'm going to be the guy at the table that says it 49 00:04:06.919 --> 00:04:11.840 could have been about this, knowing the actual story as we do. And 50 00:04:13.560 --> 00:04:17.680 I think that the movie trips on itself is because for whatever reason, they 51 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:21.839 don't want to talk about the kids drug problems. Yes, and I'm talking 52 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:27.600 about recreational drugs. I'm talking about the fact that Carrie van eric was facing 53 00:04:27.639 --> 00:04:31.560 prison time for drugs the day before he killed himself, and he was basically 54 00:04:31.600 --> 00:04:35.839 not wanting to go to jail over that and other tax matters and other matters. 55 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.959 You know, the van Erks are like Ga, there's that sort of 56 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:46.720 you know, domineering father figure and the pressure that places. But the reason 57 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:50.079 it took these guys over the top is it was compounded by the recreational drug 58 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:56.120 culture of the eighties and these kids had so much placidyls in their system at 59 00:04:56.160 --> 00:05:00.800 all times. It almost if Kevin was fucked up time in the movie, 60 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:04.000 then I could see why Zach Effron played it that way. But we don't 61 00:05:04.040 --> 00:05:08.480 know that. We haven't seen that, Like we from the outset when he 62 00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:12.560 meets what's his wife's name. When we see Pam for the first time, 63 00:05:12.639 --> 00:05:16.000 like he just seems like adults and he just doesn't seem like he knows what's 64 00:05:16.000 --> 00:05:20.879 going on or how to interact. But knowing now that he had drunk problems, 65 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:25.160 obviously that's gonna play into it. But we aren't told that or are 66 00:05:25.199 --> 00:05:28.399 we shown it. The only time we've ever shown it is when is when 67 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.720 the guy who plays Mike crushes up the pills? Well they have they have 68 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:36.720 Carrie crush up after it, Kurt yea right, carry does Mike Mike took 69 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.800 the pills And again it's the whole like because he lost his foot when in 70 00:05:40.839 --> 00:05:44.319 reality he was he'd already been popped for trying to get stuff across the border 71 00:05:44.360 --> 00:05:47.040 in Mexico. I wish they told that story with UH, with Fritz calling 72 00:05:47.120 --> 00:05:53.399 the UH calling the news. He called so Kerry got caught and Fritz called 73 00:05:53.399 --> 00:05:57.600 the newspaper and had them change the story. Does he called the police too? 74 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:00.240 Or police? Right? He called the police? Yeah, just hold 75 00:06:00.720 --> 00:06:06.240 mad strings to get Carry off the hook. So there's always it's always tough 76 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:13.639 for a film like this to take on a multiple character, multiple decade story. 77 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:16.480 Would you have rather seen this as a mini series or a limited series 78 00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:20.720 or a longer movie to just tell more of the story, more in depth. 79 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:26.319 This seemed this seemed like about the level that I knew, like surface 80 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:29.000 level, this is what happened to the von Erics, but I didn't, 81 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.439 I didn't know any of the behind the scenes like you guys usually do. 82 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:38.040 Would you rather see a longer form storytelling? I mean, given that we 83 00:06:38.079 --> 00:06:42.240 did six months of shows and almost one hundred hours worth of content, I 84 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:48.240 would say yeah. I also think there are ways too. And again I 85 00:06:48.360 --> 00:06:51.720 just I'm only really realizing this now, but really, at least for the 86 00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:57.279 way that this story was told, the emotional the stories with Fritz. The 87 00:06:57.319 --> 00:07:00.759 story is with Fritz because it's it's it's about him trying to be a wrestler. 88 00:07:00.800 --> 00:07:03.639 It's about him trying to be a promoter, trying to be a champion, 89 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:06.439 trying to be a champion, but then him also trying to promote his 90 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:12.800 sons to championship and then ultimately giving it to his son and just kind of 91 00:07:13.000 --> 00:07:18.720 like just never just he's constantly failing and sacrificing his own his own stuff for 92 00:07:18.759 --> 00:07:24.120 the sake of money and glory, It's about him at one point in his 93 00:07:24.199 --> 00:07:28.000 early life, sitting there and painting a picture in his head of the house. 94 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:30.160 They're going to have, the family, they're going to have, the 95 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:35.600 athletic success, they're going to have. And when life continually tells him you 96 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:41.519 have taken the wrong exit ramp, yeah, he doubles down, and everyone 97 00:07:41.560 --> 00:07:45.439 suffers. Everyone, They don't even it's funny, you know. They they 98 00:07:46.600 --> 00:07:49.360 keep talking about the von Eric curse, the von Eeric curses, Fritz von 99 00:07:49.480 --> 00:07:53.279 Eric. Yeah, it is the curse. You know. That's the thing 100 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:57.839 about curses is, you know, storytellers can never resist a curse. But 101 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:03.240 it's almost always very specious and almost always a crutch to talk about a curse 102 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:05.680 when really, as you pointed out a lot during the Lamentable Tragedy, this 103 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:11.959 is a series of choices, right, a series of choices, and look 104 00:08:13.160 --> 00:08:15.399 more tyranny. You know, you got to get a girl from a hyde 105 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:20.839 pack and there I understand, son of daughters of Boston City councilor Joe Tarney, 106 00:08:20.879 --> 00:08:24.519 who was a legend in the city. But you know, she offers 107 00:08:24.519 --> 00:08:31.639 nothing I mean she I mean relative relative to what they could have done with 108 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.000 the Doris character. I'm not blaming her. They offer about as much as 109 00:08:35.039 --> 00:08:37.919 Doris offers. See, I don't know. I think Doris is a much 110 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.279 more. You can do a lot more with Doris as a compelling character who's 111 00:08:41.320 --> 00:08:46.799 sort of like this helpless co pilot on this journey of destruction. I think 112 00:08:46.159 --> 00:08:52.600 I think she probably was a lot less, sort of like silent in the 113 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:54.879 background than they portrayed. I think there's a lot more they could have done. 114 00:08:54.919 --> 00:08:56.720 I was surprised that you'd bring in an actress of her stature and have 115 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.360 her say almost nothing the whole movie. I would say that there probably was 116 00:09:01.399 --> 00:09:03.600 a lot more, and I don't think someone like her would sign on to 117 00:09:03.679 --> 00:09:09.480 do such a just surface performance. I assumed that there was more in the 118 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:11.759 script, and when they realized that, hey, we really need to focus 119 00:09:11.759 --> 00:09:16.840 on Kevin, maybe some of that family so would have gone away. So 120 00:09:16.360 --> 00:09:18.799 I remember. But I also say, and also you never know, I 121 00:09:18.799 --> 00:09:22.840 mean in terms of in terms of timing and stuff. I mean, you 122 00:09:22.840 --> 00:09:26.759 know, you want to flow. And I've said it a million times that 123 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:31.320 you know, you write a script, you get it to a point that 124 00:09:31.399 --> 00:09:35.480 it's the best that it can be, and then you film it and you're 125 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.440 starting from scratch. You got to kind of tear that script apart, and 126 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.600 you got to realize what's filmable. And then when you finally have everything that 127 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:43.559 you need to make the movie, you got to start over all over again 128 00:09:43.639 --> 00:09:46.320 and rewrite the story as you're editing it. So we don't even know, 129 00:09:46.360 --> 00:09:50.080 like it could be a million different reasons why there's not more of her in 130 00:09:50.120 --> 00:09:58.240 the final film, but it's it's just like you know, I everyone's one 131 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:01.519 dimensional. There's nobody except for honestly, except for Fritz. Fritz is the 132 00:10:01.799 --> 00:10:03.399 is the guy who you although you want, you kind of want to see 133 00:10:03.600 --> 00:10:07.200 I want to see more of him. I want to see more of of 134 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:09.200 kind of his journey in it, because everyone else is just kind of there 135 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.679 and they just kind of like you know, they they act helpless. And 136 00:10:13.799 --> 00:10:18.480 again, there's not even at the very end, is there any real responsibility 137 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:20.919 taken by anybody, you know, no one. Thing that was frustrating is 138 00:10:20.960 --> 00:10:24.440 that, you know, if it's going to be for Insan's story, we 139 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.000 don't see him succeed at all. We see him get the he gets a 140 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.240 car in the beginning and says that this is the start of something and then 141 00:10:31.279 --> 00:10:35.879 we cut to family. So I want to see how he got to be 142 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:37.879 a success, because obviously he lives on a ranch. It looks like it's 143 00:10:39.039 --> 00:10:41.600 worth a lot of money. It's a pretty piece of land in Texas, 144 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.159 so right, But all they do is harp on him trying to get the 145 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:50.360 kids the strap. But it's like they're already making millions of dollars. They 146 00:10:50.440 --> 00:10:52.360 act like until they get the world title. This family isn't off to the 147 00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:56.879 races. But to Tim's point, you already can tell they're living rather opulently 148 00:10:56.360 --> 00:11:01.960 by you know, is that classic Texas blah blah blah, three hundred thousand 149 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:05.159 acres or whatever the fuck you need out there, and you know they're eating 150 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:07.720 at the long dinner table outside, you know, and all that shit. 151 00:11:07.879 --> 00:11:15.360 But we know that they want to have the title because Fritz tells us and 152 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.960 then again and again, and it was just I mean, the funny thing 153 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:20.919 is I don't want to interview about that, but you know the funny thing 154 00:11:22.000 --> 00:11:26.639 is on on the old world class television shows, they would always call these 155 00:11:26.639 --> 00:11:33.200 guys uncrowned champions, the uncrowned world champion, So in a weird way, 156 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:37.399 it does kind of play into that you know, maybe not, maybe not 157 00:11:37.480 --> 00:11:39.600 exactly. It might have not have been a choice or not. But well, 158 00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:43.159 it's to the formula of the time where you would have the world champion 159 00:11:43.200 --> 00:11:46.240 come through your area, and you know, if he was a heel, 160 00:11:46.279 --> 00:11:50.679 which he usually was, yes, do great, thank you make it by 161 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.279 with by the skin of his teeth. The champion leaves the area having just 162 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:58.120 hung onto the strap so that he leaves behind him. Of on Eric boy 163 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.679 who can claim to his local area that he's the rightful world champ if not 164 00:12:01.720 --> 00:12:07.720 for X, Y and Z rule breaking or the referee was distracted or he 165 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.720 pulled a fast one. Harley was an expert at that and on this movie. 166 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:16.840 Yeah, I mean Hardy was a disaster Harley. And then and then 167 00:12:16.879 --> 00:12:18.840 you know where I'm going after that. I know where you're going after that. 168 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:20.279 The the thoughts on Harley, who did you say it looked like by 169 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:26.159 the way, uh, ned Beatty, total ned Beatty, Like I would 170 00:12:26.159 --> 00:12:30.440 have preferred Ned Beatty playing pugging. Well, I'd take a Warren Beatty at 171 00:12:30.440 --> 00:12:35.960 this point, like it was a disaster. I mean, also it's it's 172 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:39.720 fair I was at a disaster because because you're getting so we we we know. 173 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:45.440 You know Harley Race, especially during this period that yes he had you 174 00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:48.720 know, he had a belly, but he was a barrel chested, strong 175 00:12:48.759 --> 00:12:52.480 motherfucker. He intimidating in this game. It was a fat slob. You 176 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.399 know, you might as well have cast me playing fucking Harley Race. I 177 00:12:56.399 --> 00:12:58.080 would have had a better voice. Yeah, well it didn't sound like him 178 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.799 at all. No, it didn't. When it comes to food, we'll 179 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:07.360 put a pause on it, all right, So food's at the table, 180 00:13:07.480 --> 00:13:11.679 you have to pardon some eating noises. But that's that's the Texas way of 181 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.720 the course when it comes to the laps man anyway. So Harley was just 182 00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:20.360 yeah, you know, these are wrestling nitpick things. But I do wonder 183 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.519 if the general population sees who they picked to play Harley and Flair and says 184 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:28.799 like this is taking me out of the movie, or if that's just a 185 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:33.000 wrestling fan thing. What did you think tim? I liked Flair, I 186 00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:37.080 really did. I thought he was incredibly goofy, But I also know that 187 00:13:37.559 --> 00:13:41.080 he was He's put in there and he has an incredibly long promo that he 188 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:46.080 does, and it's done for wrestling fans. That is not done for you 189 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:48.279 know, mom and pop, who are going to see the movie on Christmas. 190 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:50.639 Mom and Pop, go see the movie on Christmas. We need more 191 00:13:50.679 --> 00:13:54.679 films about wrestling. But I liked Rick Blair. I thought he was The 192 00:13:54.720 --> 00:14:00.639 film has a great Christmas message. There is a Christmas scene and by making 193 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:05.279 it a Christmas movie, So I hope we watch this every year. You 194 00:14:05.320 --> 00:14:07.879 were gonna you were gonna say about Flair, Oh, I thought I thought 195 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:09.840 he was wonderful. I thought he was silly. I thought he was over 196 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:15.240 the top. And yeah, it did take me out of the movie, 197 00:14:15.240 --> 00:14:18.600 as I'm sure it took anyone out because it goes on forever. But I 198 00:14:18.679 --> 00:14:22.000 enjoyed watching him not at all. I hated it. I immediately I was 199 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.919 sitting next to you in the theater, and immediately you had a you made 200 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:28.360 a noise. I went, oh, oh, the top of his head, 201 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:33.639 I mean the head they're supposed to like go up, it's like flat 202 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.679 the hole. I will say this too. The hair pieces in this movie 203 00:14:37.679 --> 00:14:41.960 were atrocious. Zach Effron's hair I mean, I guess Kevin had a bowl 204 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:46.200 cut, but it is distracting. I mean, if Michael's haircut was was 205 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:52.720 impressively terrible. David was the worst. Oh yeah, David was the worst. 206 00:14:52.759 --> 00:14:56.519 It was like it was like sting hair, like stiff and immobile, 207 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:01.559 and we know it wasn't like that, and we you know that the flowing 208 00:15:01.639 --> 00:15:03.360 locks was a key part of the appeal to Von Erics. It's not like 209 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:09.039 that wasn't central. I mean to say nothing of the fact that Carrie looked 210 00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:13.440 like John Stewart for some reason, so that's a problem. And he's shorter 211 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:16.679 than everybody else. He looks like Chris. Chris looks more like Chris than 212 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:20.200 he goes like Kerry. Let me switch this. Let me ask you guys 213 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:26.080 something positive. What was one little in joke for wrestling that you liked? 214 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.600 Like? I liked the There was a reference to Jim Helwick and I got 215 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:33.679 I popped for that. What did you pop for? I mean, I 216 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:35.440 pop not because it's funny, because it's really a dark moment. But they 217 00:15:35.519 --> 00:15:39.440 were sure to slip in there, and I think I know where they got 218 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:41.480 this from in terms of emphasizing it. You can hear it faintly in the 219 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.320 background after David passes away. Fritz is on the porch talking to the boys, 220 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:50.759 and they don't show him saying it because they've cut to another scene inside 221 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:54.320 the house, but you can still hear Fritz in the background say, David 222 00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.360 lived seventy five years in his twenty five years, which is something he said 223 00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:02.399 on World Class Television that we just made endless fun of because like it. 224 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:04.759 It's awful, like these kids died so early they had to live in cat 225 00:16:04.840 --> 00:16:10.559 years basically, you know right that, you know, hey, Fritz, 226 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:12.360 No he didn't. He barely lived twenty one years. I mean, when 227 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:15.360 you think about how much time he's had to spend trying to be a pro 228 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.600 wrestler, David was the best of the bunch. I mean, as far 229 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:22.960 as you know, the full suite of skills to be a successful pro. 230 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.000 There's a reason he was the one to not carry in Line in eighty four 231 00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.679 for the title. But it's you know, it doesn't really The movie I 232 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:33.759 think will really confuse non wrestling fans because they show that, you know, 233 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.799 the bruise of Brody working out the match with the guys in the back. 234 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:41.360 They show the contrived nature of it and how it's like political to get opportunities. 235 00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:45.440 They don't pretend that wrestling is real. They have Kevin Vannericks's wife even 236 00:16:45.440 --> 00:16:48.240 address it, but when they get in the ring, they act like it's 237 00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:52.320 a life and death struggle and that the outcome of the match was somehow not 238 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:56.279 expected. As Fritz approaches the boys after the match and sort of speaks like 239 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:59.840 what happened in the ring was up to them. You know, they always 240 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:06.359 about how you have to thank you. That'd be great, thank you. 241 00:17:06.440 --> 00:17:12.559 Yeah, yeah, like they would always. You'd always talk about how you 242 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.079 know, you gotta show, you gotta get your chance, and you gotta 243 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.039 and like even Flairs's I'll give you a rematch for the belt, but you 244 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.240 know, backstage is like you don't actually get that. That's not true, 245 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:25.599 Like you wouldn't say that, it's it's the promoter or it's like you know 246 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.680 Sam Muchnick was saying, you know, we'll give him a rematch or whatever. 247 00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:32.000 All right, So but back to the question, what's something that you 248 00:17:32.079 --> 00:17:37.880 popped for again, I wouldn't say I popped for it, but I was 249 00:17:37.000 --> 00:17:41.880 very, very surprised, and I was honestly happy they had they had the 250 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:45.720 balls to put in it. The Mike von Eric press conference after he shuffered 251 00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.519 toxic shock syndrome, he didn't say cotton Bowl, but they actually had that 252 00:17:49.559 --> 00:17:52.039 scene. And I really didn't think they put that scene in there. That's 253 00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:57.720 wild because because that to me, no, and I this was like the 254 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:03.480 conclusion I reached after all the hours, was that yet, you know, 255 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:08.839 if Fritz von Eric only lost Mike with under the same exact circumstances, made 256 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:14.119 the same decisions about Mike, did the same things about Mike after the toxic 257 00:18:14.240 --> 00:18:18.279 shock syndrome, you know, basically resulting in the same outcome, and none 258 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:22.039 of the other boys died, Fritz would still be a rather repulsive character. 259 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.039 And then you compound it only adds to the case that all these other kids 260 00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.759 harmed themselves as well. Speaking of which I thought, what a twist it 261 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:33.960 would be if at the end of the film, when Kevin is just like 262 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:41.920 so despondent over losing everybody, Kevin just kills himself. Who would work or 263 00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:49.000 Fritz kills himself. Really Another part to that I was surprised about is that 264 00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:52.160 you don't have Chris Vaughan Eric in the movie, but you get Jackie Junior. 265 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:56.880 You get Jackie Jr. In there, and they don't depict not to 266 00:18:56.920 --> 00:19:00.279 say, I need to see the kid drowned out in a puddle outside the 267 00:19:00.279 --> 00:19:03.839 trailer park when Fritz was on the road, which is how he died, 268 00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:08.319 by the way, the electrocution, but they just mentioned him and then they 269 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:12.640 passing and they have this sorry spoiler, but they have this weird, this 270 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:18.920 weird moment where where after Carrie shoots himself, he meets up with all his 271 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.519 dead brothers in on a lake at Lake Dallas, I presume, And there's 272 00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:29.279 this moment where he looks down at Jackie Jr. And he like meets him 273 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:30.960 for the first time basically and goes says, you must be my oldest brother. 274 00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:36.559 And he's still too, and he's like two years old, eternally two 275 00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:40.519 years old. He can't understand how to do any film. Is such a 276 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:44.279 good point, but I really was, I said, I said to JP, 277 00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:45.960 with that happened, I said, what if as soon as Carrie tells 278 00:19:47.039 --> 00:19:52.079 the little baby boy, you must be my oldest brother, suddenly Jackie just 279 00:19:52.119 --> 00:19:55.519 shoots to the moon like just like he has a rocket in his eyes. 280 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:59.920 He's just and the whole movie becomes absurd, I said. And I said 281 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.519 that, I said, you know what I prefer actually is they have that 282 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:06.359 moment they had their little embrace, and all of a sudden, Jackie opens 283 00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:11.640 his mouth and just keeps spreading and he swallows carry. I think that Jackie 284 00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:17.799 should have powered I mean, it says, you're my older brother, so 285 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.799 immediately he should get a title shot. Our father will be okay. I 286 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:26.720 mean yeah, I think Holt did a great job. I really do. 287 00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:33.000 I he kept he had the gravel in the voice, but he didn't overdo 288 00:20:33.039 --> 00:20:36.440 it, which I feel like it's an interesting choice. I think you could 289 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:37.720 have gone a little bit deeper in the voice, but it's fine. Yeah, 290 00:20:37.799 --> 00:20:41.359 he sounded a lot more like himself than Fritz, which you know is 291 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:42.440 a choice. I mean, maybe you can't hold that up for a Maybe 292 00:20:42.440 --> 00:20:45.559 you don't want to do an impression either, which could be a thing, 293 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.559 right, Tim As somebody that you know was, like you said, sort 294 00:20:48.599 --> 00:20:52.759 of surface level familiar with this whole saga. What did you take away in 295 00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.559 terms of where to assign blame? Like, how does the movie leave you 296 00:20:55.559 --> 00:21:00.160 feeling about what happened? Oh, I mean it's it's not subtle at all. 297 00:21:00.200 --> 00:21:02.880 It's I mean, it starts out by saying, this is going to 298 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:06.319 be a story about how this guy pushes his sons in all of the wrong 299 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:10.319 ways and then just continues to barrel that home for two hours. But I 300 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:17.160 think larger my problem with it is that it's it's a true story and there's 301 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:21.759 a there's a flow of events that happen, and the film tries to cram 302 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:26.200 it all into a very simple structure, and it's just really tough to do 303 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:30.359 that. It's tough to compact a true story. Like a lot of the 304 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.079 stuff that's in this movie. They use story elements on the show Heals, 305 00:21:34.599 --> 00:21:40.480 like about you know, a wrestling family, and you know, they're able 306 00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:44.400 to take more license with it because it's fiction, but and they don't have 307 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:48.119 to adhere to the true facts and the timeline. So it's just tough to 308 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.559 tell this story. But yeah, I mean, it's it's Fritz's way. 309 00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.839 It's all the blame is on animal. You gotta say that, you know. 310 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.240 I do remember hearing and I don't know how people knew this, if 311 00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:03.640 it's people that got a sneak peek at how the movie was going to be 312 00:22:03.640 --> 00:22:07.160 done, or if it was people reading between the lines and interviews that people 313 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.920 were doing about the movie being put together. But I remember there being buzz 314 00:22:10.960 --> 00:22:15.119 about a shift where suddenly, maybe it was two versions of the trailer where 315 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:18.640 you suddenly realize it seems like they've changed tack now and they're going to make 316 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.160 this about Fritz doing this to the kids as opposed to Fritz being just another 317 00:22:22.240 --> 00:22:26.640 victim of the curse, right and playing it that way. I feel like 318 00:22:26.160 --> 00:22:29.720 I remember hearing that there was a point where people were like, oh, 319 00:22:29.759 --> 00:22:33.559 wow, they're actually going to make a decision about blame here in a way 320 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.599 that the initial publicity about the film indicated they would try to dodge what they 321 00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:44.000 probably did honestly, and Holte mckelleny has talked about this. He couldn't talk 322 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.079 to Kevin von Erik legally, there's some kind of legal tie up where he 323 00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:49.640 was not allowed to speak to him. According to what he said. Perhaps 324 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:53.880 Kevin has optioned his rights to his life story or something like that, which 325 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.839 makes it even more curious if this film is built around Kevin the way it 326 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.880 is, like the Dark Side episode was ends up just being about how Kevin 327 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:03.680 survived, and it's about Kevin. Makes sense. Kevin sits with them, 328 00:23:03.839 --> 00:23:07.839 right, so he's the most compelling guy they have on camera, whereas here 329 00:23:08.319 --> 00:23:12.519 just because they're dead doesn't mean you can't focus the story around them. And 330 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:17.599 I feel like Kevin is as compelling as he is, he's not the most 331 00:23:17.599 --> 00:23:19.839 compelling. He's like the least compelling character in the whole saga. I've always 332 00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:23.680 felt that about him, like in terms of, you know, like, 333 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:29.640 in a weird way, he's he's even less compelling. There two, there 334 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.000 are two kind of things about him. Number One, I think he's even 335 00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:40.079 less compelling than Mike and or Chris because they have the tragedy around them. 336 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:45.119 Yeah, where Kry and Carrie and David are are just much more compelling as 337 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.839 characters because they have just more interesting stories. And then also in a weird 338 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:56.680 way, in a dark way, he's also less compelling because he did survive. 339 00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.119 Well, It's it's easy to hang the story on him though, because 340 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.400 he's the one that survived and you can see all of the bad things that 341 00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:08.279 happened through his eyes. So that's that's the only reason why I would think 342 00:24:08.319 --> 00:24:11.359 to hanging on him, because he Yeah, he's just not compelling. One 343 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:17.200 thing that I want to say as a positive again is that the actors who 344 00:24:17.480 --> 00:24:19.640 had to wrestle, I thought they did a great job like, it didn't 345 00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:25.720 seem like more wrestling than I expected. Flair, not Harley Race. They 346 00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:30.359 were awful, but the two Jeremy Allen White and Edie and Zach Effron. 347 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.160 Zach looked like a wrestler. He moved like a wrestler. He was in. 348 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:38.599 Really it was disturbing the kind of shape he was in. It actually 349 00:24:38.720 --> 00:24:41.480 hurt the movie. I think, Yeah, I didn't know. I didn't 350 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.880 think that Kevin in real life was that he's MPEd. In that part, 351 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.279 he was more. He was more like aerobic style body. I mean, 352 00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:52.160 he's definitely was like big, and he was cut, but he wasn't powerliftered 353 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.200 cut. Yeah, I mean, this looks more wiry. He was more 354 00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:00.839 sinewy. But Zach Effron is the Greek god of all the brothers. When 355 00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:04.880 that was Carrie, you know, David was pretty close to the David was 356 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.480 so much taller than Carrie and even Kevin that it really threw it off. 357 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:11.839 This is only a wrestling fan cares about this ship. I actually think of 358 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:15.039 all the brothers, David did the best job as far as acting. We 359 00:25:15.079 --> 00:25:18.680 do agree with that. I liked him too. They have a scene in 360 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:23.039 the bathroo room at a, well, how about Kevin's wedding where Fritz just 361 00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:26.839 decides to take Doris home and fuck her and leave Kevin's wedding, Like, 362 00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.400 why is that in the movie? Trying to make him so sweet in that 363 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.519 moment where he's like, oh, that couple reminds me of us being selfish 364 00:25:34.519 --> 00:25:37.119 because he wants to drag his wife away from their son's wedding. A fucker? 365 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:40.279 Why what what? What? What is that in the movie for? 366 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:42.839 Honestly, what am I supposed to deduce from that? Or you know, 367 00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:47.279 how does that add to it? I don't know, but doing great? 368 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:51.519 Thank you, yes, sure, thank you? Yeah, yeah, I 369 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.799 can't take this too it. Yeah, I'm all done, thank you yours, 370 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:04.200 I am all seven, thank you. Yeah. It just and it's 371 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:10.200 just a it's a very it's a very disjointed movie. There's no you know, 372 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:14.079 there's not enough time. I almost wish they gave another hour, Like 373 00:26:14.119 --> 00:26:17.160 I could have actually watched another hour of it and been okay with it because 374 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:22.960 you see that coming a mile away, you know they yeah, like they 375 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:25.720 uh, there's just not enough time to really give a shit about anybody. 376 00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.640 Yeah, they're only telling this part of the story. It's a big part, 377 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.359 but it's just it's just a snapshot wrestling fans. Of course, no 378 00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.599 MJF is in the movie. He even is listed as an executive producer, 379 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:41.599 which surprised me. I must not have read about that. But he only 380 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.200 appears in the movie for ten seconds as Lance von Eric in the ring while 381 00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:48.960 Kevin stands on the apron another bad hair piece too well, terrible, terrible. 382 00:26:48.440 --> 00:26:52.359 But the fact that they bothered to cast Lance tells me that they wanted 383 00:26:53.440 --> 00:26:59.279 yes, okay, so no rush, but when you guys are ready to 384 00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:03.279 pay part, okay, that's awesome thing, thank you, which tells me 385 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.880 they wanted to get into the Lance thing, which I think is so And 386 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:11.599 Tim was asking me about this. I think it's so relevatory it it's one 387 00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.160 of the things that puts you over the edge about Fritz that Mike dies and 388 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:17.640 he just plucks some guy named Ricky Vaughn from Portland and makes him a vine 389 00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:22.960 Eric because we need another body. And the fact that he's even a character 390 00:27:22.039 --> 00:27:26.440 in the movie makes me think that not only did they want to tell it, 391 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.200 but they originally had it in the script. I mean, they wouldn't 392 00:27:29.200 --> 00:27:33.920 have like put in that as just a small detail. There must have been 393 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:37.440 some more going on that had to be cut for time. I mean time, 394 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.400 I hope, I mean never, I mean never know. I meane 395 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:45.640 the scenes with MJF could have just brought the movie to a standstill and it 396 00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:48.519 just stopped moving. You know, it's a there are a million different things. 397 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:49.759 I don't I don't think. I feel like I could be wrong, 398 00:27:49.799 --> 00:27:56.039 but I feel like A twenty four is a studio that is like, you 399 00:27:56.079 --> 00:27:57.400 know, if your movie is going to be ten hours long, it's ten 400 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.599 hours long. Like they don't they see very you know, they're much more 401 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:04.200 creative. They're much more in telling the story, at least from the stuff 402 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:08.119 that I've seen that that then like worried about, like, well wait a 403 00:28:08.160 --> 00:28:11.240 minute, we got to cut this rud up to two hours otherwise we're not 404 00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:12.400 gonna make any money on it. Tim, What do you think about the 405 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:15.960 hallmarks of A twenty four? What does that mean to you? Oh, 406 00:28:15.160 --> 00:28:19.680 A twenty boys are very successful, supposedly independent studio, and they seem to 407 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.559 champion art rather than commerce more so, you know, they let their directors 408 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:29.799 and their filmmakers do what they want, which is which is great. So 409 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.000 I don't know the reason why something would be cut, you know, could 410 00:28:33.039 --> 00:28:36.720 be time. I don't know, but you no A twenty four This seems 411 00:28:36.799 --> 00:28:40.640 very much like their film, a dark, compelling personal story. Yeah, 412 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:42.880 that's about fucked up people. I'm sorry, Can I swear on the podcast? 413 00:28:42.920 --> 00:28:45.079 Oh we have a Oh you haven't already? You're fucking kidding me. 414 00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:49.319 Yeah. I think the Sportatorium looked pretty good. I think they did a 415 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:55.640 good job evoking career too. The exterior looked great as well. That building's 416 00:28:55.640 --> 00:29:00.440 been torn down for twenty years now, but they reconstructed it beautifully. Saturday 417 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:03.599 Friday night at the matches kind of feeling, you know, they got that 418 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.480 across real well, I feel yeah, but I feel like, you know, 419 00:29:07.599 --> 00:29:11.400 we needed we needed just like ten more minutes of the Von Eric of 420 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:18.599 the boys just getting blitzed, getting high, causing mischief like they were, 421 00:29:18.680 --> 00:29:22.920 you know, they weren't just sitting at the table. That's a misrepresentation of 422 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.640 the von Eric family dynamic that I think is not just something that's excusable because 423 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:32.920 of the needs of the movie. They were always shouting matches amongst Fritz and 424 00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:37.240 the kids. There was always tensions between Fritz and Doris, you could have 425 00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:40.920 played with that, but instead everybody just sits there docile while Fritz dictates from 426 00:29:40.920 --> 00:29:42.319 the head of the table, which I get why they would do that, 427 00:29:42.559 --> 00:29:45.240 but I think there's so much more that they could have done with those scenes 428 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:48.279 where all the kids are just sitting there biting their tongue. Yes, sorry, 429 00:29:48.319 --> 00:29:51.960 yes, sir, I mean so simplistic. I also thought, too, 430 00:29:52.119 --> 00:29:56.119 is an interesting choice that we never actually saw any of the tragedies. 431 00:29:57.039 --> 00:30:02.359 None of them are shown. No, you have hints of things cloet carry, 432 00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:06.000 Yeah, the closest we get his carry. We don't see the accident 433 00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:08.160 where he loses his like, we don't even I mean they do a crazy 434 00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:12.119 jump cut or he's just riding the motorcycle and they cut. I mean, 435 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:15.759 I don't remember how long it took for them after the accident that that they 436 00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.000 cut his leg off. But all of a sudden, the next thing we 437 00:30:18.039 --> 00:30:22.200 see is him getting up in crutches and he's got no leg and they don't 438 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:25.359 even show him crashing right, Like, I really wonder if people in general 439 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:30.319 that don't know about Kerry Vunerwick's motorcycle crash understand that he crashed the motorcycle because 440 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:33.920 they play that scene with him driving down the road as almost like a teary 441 00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:37.559 eyd reflection of David's death. They don't even really get across that he's about 442 00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:41.880 to crash. It's like he approaches a car or there's any fast. He's 443 00:30:41.920 --> 00:30:45.480 going very fast. They don't show Dame's like a moment of solitude more than 444 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.119 like impending danger. They don't show David dying. You get a hint of 445 00:30:48.119 --> 00:30:52.200 it beforehand, but you don't show They show Mike ingesting the pills that would 446 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.160 kill him, but again he just kind of like the next thing you get 447 00:30:56.279 --> 00:31:00.400 is you get a like you know, like you either cut to a funeral 448 00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.759 or you get like, oh my god, they're dead. You know. 449 00:31:03.839 --> 00:31:07.319 It's very and Mike was disappointed in himself. That's what was said at his 450 00:31:07.359 --> 00:31:12.240 funeral, right, yeah, very Everything was explained to you over the time. 451 00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:15.839 But I want to ask you, so, say this movie does well, 452 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:18.519 say say the Iron Class starts a wrestling cinematic universe. I mean, 453 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.960 I don't know based on the audience. What do you think the audience we 454 00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:26.279 were at at one o'clock in the afternoon showing okay, but say it does 455 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:32.319 well next year two years from now? What family in wrestling? Do you 456 00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:40.160 want to see? A story about the hearts or the funks? Hearts would 457 00:31:40.200 --> 00:31:44.039 be good to me. That's kind of like that's like a that's kind of 458 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:47.319 like a lazy way of doing it, like just oh, what's the next 459 00:31:47.359 --> 00:31:49.000 family? You can do something you do a Kurt Angle movie, which is 460 00:31:49.039 --> 00:31:52.160 actually in the works. It doesn't have to be about a family. I 461 00:31:52.200 --> 00:32:00.720 mean, i'd also I'm trying to think, I don't know, I mean 462 00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:04.279 the McMahon's for God's sakes, yeah for sure. I mean, there needs 463 00:32:04.319 --> 00:32:07.240 to be a Vince movie. I mean, there's always rumors floating around there's 464 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.640 a Netflix series that's gonna come out where he sits down and talks about, 465 00:32:10.839 --> 00:32:14.720 you know, things he's never really talked about, like being indicted and all 466 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:22.759 that has been requested. Yea, we're back on now. I don't I'm 467 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:25.359 trying to think of a good one, Like I can't, like, what's 468 00:32:25.359 --> 00:32:30.000 the story I mean Owen Hart, Well, yeah, that's why I said 469 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:31.480 the heart, Yeah, the heart's overall hearts is the first one that comes 470 00:32:31.480 --> 00:32:38.359 to mind for me. Demolition of course point of view, I agree. 471 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:42.160 I think you have a third guy, outsider, you know, coming in, 472 00:32:42.319 --> 00:32:46.279 not sure how to coincide with his other demolition teammates, and on his 473 00:32:46.319 --> 00:32:52.359 story that's writing itself as we speak, a man who's on the verge of 474 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.839 possibly passing away. That's true. I mean, that's his story right there. 475 00:32:57.039 --> 00:33:00.839 Soul training, I mean mea sauce. Tim has asked about Max Moon 476 00:33:00.559 --> 00:33:07.880 about sixteen times since we've gotten together. He thought, I do think a 477 00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:13.039 Max Moon story is in. Is maybe a Jerry Lawler, maybe a buck 478 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.440 Zoom Hob, But Man on the Moon has already taken as a title. 479 00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:28.400 I think the gagnes Max on the Moon, Oh shit, shooting the little 480 00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:32.039 things out of his ear right, Max on the Moon. Yeah, I'll 481 00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:40.599 do the Jimmy coming next from Time Laps right from the Time Laps Fan oh 482 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:45.880 man. I mean, I'm glad the movie got made. I'm glad that 483 00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:50.720 they made some of the decisions they did in terms of training, their focus 484 00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:55.519 on the pall that Fritz cast. Yes, there's so much more there, 485 00:33:55.559 --> 00:34:00.920 man, like you get in. They didn't get into interest. They had 486 00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:06.599 Kevin attack Fritz, when in fact it was Fritz that pulled a gun on 487 00:34:06.720 --> 00:34:10.159 Kevin. After everyone had already died, and he made those comments about how 488 00:34:10.199 --> 00:34:14.519 you know he didn't have the guts to kill yourself like your brother did. 489 00:34:15.239 --> 00:34:17.239 Yeah, and I mean, I know my dad still loved me, but 490 00:34:17.280 --> 00:34:20.679 he did threaten to shoot me in the fucking head and tell me I should 491 00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:24.840 have killed myself. I still stand by that. I wish you'd killed yourself. 492 00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:29.559 I'd take ten. I'd take a Chris over ten of you, you 493 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:34.800 fucker, nice guy overall. Yeah, it's like people already saying, like 494 00:34:35.280 --> 00:34:37.559 people that don't know wrestling find out about that there was another brother that's not 495 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:40.639 even depicted that killed himself, and that at that point it's too absurd to 496 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:44.119 even believe, you know. Yeah, So all that is, there's so 497 00:34:44.239 --> 00:34:47.639 much more like the nineties. It's almost like the nineties tells the story more 498 00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:51.920 than the eighties, even though that David and Mike died in the eighties, 499 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:54.800 because the nineties is where the salad days are over. It's almost like you 500 00:34:54.840 --> 00:35:00.000 could, you could, like very quickly in ten minutes, explain fast. 501 00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:04.480 Yeah, money and now this is what comes of it, you know, 502 00:35:04.519 --> 00:35:06.320 And yeah, I mean that would be kind of a neat thing. The 503 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:08.400 idea actually when you think about it, like if you get like you have 504 00:35:08.440 --> 00:35:16.239 a uh you have like a ten minute montage opening all this great stuff newspaper 505 00:35:16.360 --> 00:35:22.280 articles and celebrations, cheering have already died, right well, or you just 506 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:24.480 have it like you know, yeah you could do that, and then and 507 00:35:24.519 --> 00:35:27.800 then you talk about that and then like you next thing you do is you 508 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:30.760 cut to like carry Van Eric snort and coke, you know, in a 509 00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:34.440 bathroom. Yeah. The fact that no one snorts coke in the movie is 510 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:38.519 just completely ridiculous. The fact that nobody does placidyls or painkillers or these things 511 00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:43.519 that had these guys so fucked up they didn't even remember their careers. Jeremy 512 00:35:43.519 --> 00:35:46.159 Allen White did do steroids like I do steroids. There was a point where 513 00:35:46.159 --> 00:35:50.679 he injects himself with a needle and starts moaning and screaming. I didn't know 514 00:35:50.679 --> 00:35:54.960 that it had that effect on you, but uh yeah, you know, 515 00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.840 it's like, you know, there's so much in that, and it explained 516 00:36:00.880 --> 00:36:05.119 so much more why Fritz was like he was, because he saw the kids 517 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:08.400 as fuck ups. Kevin sitting there telling Fritz that he wants to sell to 518 00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:13.800 Jerry Jarrett's exact opposite of what happened. Kevin did not want to sell to 519 00:36:13.880 --> 00:36:16.559 Jerry Jarrett. Carrie did because Kerry wanted nothing to do with running the business 520 00:36:16.599 --> 00:36:21.119 because he was so fucked up all the time. And Kevin was the one 521 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:23.480 who felt, you know, a little slighted on payoffs, and they made 522 00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:28.559 reference to that, but they act like Kevin was the one trying to engineer 523 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:30.280 getting the business out of their blood. Really, he was the one who 524 00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:34.679 held on longest, not just because he lived longest, but because he was 525 00:36:34.719 --> 00:36:37.480 the one most likely to butt heads with Fritz about actual business. And here's 526 00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:40.920 Fritz telling Jerry Jarrett and others, you can't do business with my sons. 527 00:36:40.960 --> 00:36:45.679 They are complete drug addicts. They're complete fuck ups. And that not only 528 00:36:45.719 --> 00:36:50.920 does that not come across in the movie, they completely miscast Kevin's culpability, 529 00:36:51.199 --> 00:36:55.559 like in his culpability in creating a mindset with Fritz that his kids just could 530 00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.920 not be trusted with anything. They could not be trusted because they just couldn't 531 00:37:00.159 --> 00:37:06.039 stop getting high and making and missing towns, missing shows. As he brought 532 00:37:06.079 --> 00:37:07.840 in a lance, because it's like you don't know if they're going to show 533 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:10.239 up. In part, you know, it's like, I don't know. 534 00:37:10.239 --> 00:37:15.199 There's so much more complexity to the boys in terms of like the excesses that 535 00:37:15.239 --> 00:37:17.880 they became victims of, and it explains a little bit more. It makes 536 00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.519 Fritz less one dimensional when you realize that perhaps he would have put more faith 537 00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:27.280 in the Suns if he could have. But you have to understand how unreliable 538 00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.159 they were. Every wrestler that worked with them talked about being in the ring 539 00:37:30.199 --> 00:37:34.039 with them and they're fucked up or they're swinging like it's a real fight because 540 00:37:34.039 --> 00:37:37.679 they're just so non in command of their faculties. Carry Von Eric doing a 541 00:37:37.719 --> 00:37:42.559 sunset flip to the right of Rick Flair and just missing him. Flare stand 542 00:37:42.599 --> 00:37:45.679 there bent over and can sunset flipping an imaginary opponent because he's so high. 543 00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:51.480 Ah. There was one line that Fritz said. I think it was to 544 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.119 Ken, who said, you're forty years old and you still can't take care 545 00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:59.320 of yourself. That was the only allusion to the fact that the Boys could 546 00:37:59.320 --> 00:38:01.320 not be trusted completely right, And it kind of came out of nowhere. 547 00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:05.039 I mean, I feel like I wasn't led to feel that way. It 548 00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.840 wasn't n Kevin's a character at all. I mean yeah, I mean he's 549 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.039 very dependent on his wife, who's that, you know, portrayed very favorably. 550 00:38:10.039 --> 00:38:13.840 It almost comes off like a love letter to Pam von Eric at the 551 00:38:14.280 --> 00:38:16.920 but and of course she's the one who endearingly says, isn't it fake? 552 00:38:16.960 --> 00:38:22.320 Oh sorry? What word would you like written? Pre arranged? She says, 553 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:28.280 to be arranged? Pre arranged amazing. So so there's that, and 554 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:34.920 there's also this. There's also this sense that Kevin is, like you said, 555 00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:38.639 sort of like this this helpless, this helpless figure. And through the 556 00:38:38.639 --> 00:38:42.719 whole movie he's he's the only one with any perspective on anything. He's just 557 00:38:42.760 --> 00:38:45.800 sitting there staring off in a space, so sad about what's happening. And 558 00:38:46.559 --> 00:38:51.079 he's portrayed as helpless. But it's Fritz who, when Doris doesn't make him 559 00:38:51.079 --> 00:38:53.760 dinner one night, stands there like he's going to just die. On day 560 00:38:53.800 --> 00:38:59.800 seventeen of malnutrition, she says, he comes and says, or do you 561 00:39:00.159 --> 00:39:04.320 dinner? No, I'm painting, and he just stares at her. And 562 00:39:04.320 --> 00:39:07.199 I was like waiting for him to come, she says. She says, 563 00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:12.159 I'm painting and I'm not hungry. Well, what am I supposed to see 564 00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:15.400 and then he said, and then it like dissolved day seventeen. And then 565 00:39:15.440 --> 00:39:21.719 he's eating the table He's like, he's eating like the tablecloth. So he's 566 00:39:21.760 --> 00:39:23.840 the one that's helpless. He's the one that can't, you know, do 567 00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:28.360 anything without Mama Dora. He can't win championships without his sons. He can't 568 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:31.079 fucking eat without being fed. And she goes, They get divorced, she 569 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:36.199 moves away, she smokes two packs a day and gambles at the casino in 570 00:39:36.199 --> 00:39:38.519 Mississippi for the rest of her life. She leaves him, and she blames 571 00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:43.960 him, and he sits there by himself with this guy that he hires to 572 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:47.320 show him how to use windows ninety five, and he expires due to cancer 573 00:39:47.480 --> 00:39:52.519 day trading. You know, it's like they don't get any of that, 574 00:39:52.840 --> 00:39:58.880 none of that, none of that. Thank you very much, thank you. 575 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:06.840 Yeah. So in closing bus, I mean, see it, see 576 00:40:06.840 --> 00:40:09.679 it, just to get out of your system. See it. Respect Holpe, 577 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:14.440 Respect Holp because he respects the lapsed fan first and foremost. He did 578 00:40:14.519 --> 00:40:16.000 he did the right thing. And then you know what his performance shows. 579 00:40:16.400 --> 00:40:22.119 I think zach Efron should have listened to the podcast more. And you know, 580 00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:28.880 there's a particular podcast Tim closing Dots. Yeah, see the movie. 581 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:32.880 It's it's always fun to see uh wrestling at you know, the another part 582 00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:37.800 of the story. So yeah, it's fun, but it's just not very 583 00:40:37.800 --> 00:40:40.440 good. I look I look forward to seeing if it, like you you 584 00:40:40.440 --> 00:40:44.880 you talked about, creates a dialogue about what is this story and maybe a 585 00:40:44.920 --> 00:40:49.840 demand for like more clarity and and and it sparking a curiosity in people that 586 00:40:49.920 --> 00:40:53.960 otherwise didn't realize that there were such you know, dramatic and weighty things happening 587 00:40:53.960 --> 00:40:58.599 in this phony world. But if that doesn't happen, I feel like it'll 588 00:40:58.639 --> 00:41:01.320 just sort of we're gonna an ephemeral thing, right, or maybe it's just 589 00:41:01.360 --> 00:41:08.400 gonna PLoP and go away and maybe uh never be heard from again. The 590 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:14.320 Iron Claw, where there is a sting preceeding there is a production of the 591 00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:21.159 Laps Entertainment Group. Its content is intended for private use only. Sorry,