WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:05.879 So a special note to listeners, we had some internet difficulties recording this episode 2 00:00:06.200 --> 00:00:08.960 and it proved difficult to try to edit them out and smooth them over, 3 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:12.800 so you'll just have to bear with us with our periodic glitches along the way. 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:16.559 But in return, we're making this an ad free episode for this week. 5 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:21.320 Thanks for listening, and please keep tuning into The Three Whiskey Happy Hour. 6 00:00:22.199 --> 00:00:28.519 Whiskey Coming, Fake pay Molly, Oh Whiskey, don't you be? 7 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:37.479 From Powerline blog dot com and produced by Ricochet dot Com. This is the 8 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:44.799 Three Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward, John You and power Lines 9 00:00:44.920 --> 00:00:53.200 International Woman of Mystery Lucretia Got gotta giving let that whiskey clone where you're being 10 00:00:53.320 --> 00:01:00.520 in love down in the well. Hi, everybody, It's the three Whiskey 11 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:03.640 Happy Hour, although it could be the three Martini Happy Hour to change things 12 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:07.760 up because we have a twist tonight. The twist tonight is John Hugh is 13 00:01:07.760 --> 00:01:12.480 away in his place. We are delighted to welcome Handley Arcus, who we 14 00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:15.719 whose name we took in Vain a week ago and we thought, you know 15 00:01:15.760 --> 00:01:19.560 what, we better make it up to him on purpose, not on purpose. 16 00:01:19.599 --> 00:01:21.959 No, we were just going fast and as we too often do, 17 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:25.760 and scooped it all up. So anyway, welcome Handley, and uh, 18 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:33.280 what are even bibing tonight? Bourbon? What for bourbon? Bourbon? Creaty? 19 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:38.760 Have you got something at the elbow? Or so? I'm drinking red 20 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:41.840 wine too, only because I've been moving the last couple of days, which 21 00:01:41.879 --> 00:01:45.319 means lifting heavy boxes and throwing my back out. I heard one of you 22 00:01:45.439 --> 00:01:49.120 was drinking blanc last time I got Yeah, it was not me that I 23 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.640 promised you. But now but by the way, it wasn't just any It 24 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.200 wasn't the grass clipping sauvignon belong from New Zealand. It was one that's in 25 00:01:57.239 --> 00:02:00.760 the Wine Spectator's top twenty winds up the year, I'll have, you know. 26 00:02:00.959 --> 00:02:05.560 But I couldn't get that in last week because I wasn't. I've always 27 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:15.080 been working with Uh oh, that's George George Gobel principal, which is I 28 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.000 know my I know my limit. I just peck up. I just passed 29 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:25.840 out before I get there. So one martini tonight. I stopped at one 30 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:29.919 martini. Okay, yeah, that's the old rule I have is one martine 31 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.199 is not enough, but three is too many? Yeah, which is many 32 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:36.400 times. There's a Dorothy Parker line like that. I don't think we could 33 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:39.800 use on the air. Well, I don't know. Last week those guys 34 00:02:39.800 --> 00:02:46.319 got a little carried away. Yes, there's one. One is enough too 35 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:51.840 is three? I'm under the table. Four, I'm under the host. 36 00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:55.039 So that's right. Yeah. I thought it was one of the all right 37 00:02:55.439 --> 00:03:00.879 listeners and had they do what we're gonna do here is well three parts. 38 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:04.960 First, I let me finish this. I want to ask you what you're 39 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:07.080 doing literally today, because I think it's interesting. Specond, a little bit 40 00:03:07.120 --> 00:03:10.800 of origin stories I called, which is very popular listeners. And then third, 41 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.120 the bulk of the show, we'll be getting into the noddy problem of 42 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:20.520 what should pro life people. It's actually Republican politicians be saying about abortion aside 43 00:03:20.560 --> 00:03:23.719 from nothing, which is what they've been saying for two years now, right 44 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:28.960 yeah, right, So actually, so you've been in an advantise. I 45 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:32.199 gathered we're catching you in San Antonio and you've been at some observance for Gerard 46 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:36.960 Bradley, who is what retiring from Notre Dame Law school. He's phasing out 47 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:40.280 of this at ten yed position at the Law School notre To day to join 48 00:03:40.360 --> 00:03:47.080 me in the James Wilson Institute on Natural Rights and the American Founding, which 49 00:03:47.159 --> 00:03:52.120 we began about eleven years ago, first with a supporter of Tom Klingenstein, 50 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:55.759 but then it was taken over by my devoted to former students from Cameras and 51 00:03:55.800 --> 00:04:00.680 now we got more funding from outside supporters and now Jerry is going to come 52 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:05.000 on to you know, there was a whole problem. I remember Walter Burns 53 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:12.120 and Alan Bloom at Cornell all days that they formed. Because there were two 54 00:04:12.159 --> 00:04:16.199 of them, they formed the kind of magnetic field. If when I was 55 00:04:16.240 --> 00:04:23.079 at amatest people say, oh that's Arcus, it's Arcus' stick. If there's 56 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:26.439 only one of them there, they would have said, oh that's Burns stick, 57 00:04:26.519 --> 00:04:29.959 that's that's true. But when there were two of them, it was 58 00:04:29.959 --> 00:04:32.639 a school and they it was kind of a magnetic field. They drew some 59 00:04:32.680 --> 00:04:35.959 of the most gifted students to them, and if one of them went on 60 00:04:36.279 --> 00:04:40.680 on leave, it didn't go away. So it was important to get the 61 00:04:40.759 --> 00:04:46.560 second man here to secure this project and give our donors the assurance it's going 62 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:50.040 to continue. One of my Doughntors wants me to be left one hundred and 63 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:58.000 six keep a single But it is Jerry Bradley. I was telling uh Steve 64 00:04:58.079 --> 00:05:02.079 before the christ join this. He has a remark. He's he's been one 65 00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:08.560 of the real critics of conservative Jewist proofs, one of those lone voices among 66 00:05:08.639 --> 00:05:14.199 the professt. Saurian arguing that the people of doing Conservati Jewish proofs have spent 67 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:18.240 their careers steering around the questions of world substances that are at the heart of 68 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:24.480 their cases, and so we're trying to to go over celebrate Jerry's work on 69 00:05:24.560 --> 00:05:30.480 the main issues of the defensive marriage, for example, and which is argument 70 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:36.839 that it's that Skulia never offered a quick, real defense of marriage for the 71 00:05:36.839 --> 00:05:43.639 moral defensive marriages. His concern was that it was that three hundred and twenty 72 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:47.519 million Americans are being ruled by a majority of nine judges. He said, 73 00:05:47.560 --> 00:05:53.319 I don't care what the substance of the laws are. These legislature can establish 74 00:05:53.439 --> 00:06:00.680 anything it wants about marriage. And what he affirmed was the right of majority, 75 00:06:00.240 --> 00:06:04.639 really majority to shape the moral care of the community, whether on marriage 76 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:10.399 or loot entertainments anyway. But the curious part, the erotic part, is 77 00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:15.639 that he didn't really think that there were any more truths underlying those judgments does 78 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:21.360 no matter what the majority willed, So he never he never really offered a 79 00:06:21.399 --> 00:06:28.199 moral defense of marriage. So what we're doing this weekend was celebrating the works 80 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:31.959 of Jerry Bradley, and I was trying to draw upon circumstances going back to 81 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:36.920 twenty five years ago when he and I were testifying for Lindsay's bill, Lindsey 82 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:42.759 Graham when he was in the House on the Unborn Victims of Violence Act of 83 00:06:42.839 --> 00:06:48.079 the peopleless sergeant in the Air Force who could beat his wife, rupture her 84 00:06:48.160 --> 00:06:51.680 uterus, killed the child in the womb, but there was no recognition of 85 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:56.839 the unborn child as victim, and Lindsay was coming forth with that. Jerry 86 00:06:56.839 --> 00:07:00.959 and I were there to testifize. I began with that, but along the 87 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.160 way we had to consider his argument what was intrinsically right about marriage, about 88 00:07:05.240 --> 00:07:13.399 the marital relation and consummation, and the consummation of a marriage as central to 89 00:07:13.439 --> 00:07:19.040 the point. And I'm telling Steve I was recalling that matchless play by Tom 90 00:07:19.120 --> 00:07:24.639 Stoppert Jumpers, which my late wife Judy and I saw in London, were 91 00:07:24.639 --> 00:07:30.279 there in nineteen seventy three, and an investigating detective says to the character lead 92 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:35.240 character, Professor Moore, your wife, before she retired from the stage, 93 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.920 was a summit actress. And he said, yes, but regrettably she retired 94 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.759 from consummation around the same time she retired from the state. So it was 95 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:53.000 it was a centrality and what really what marriage was really about. So that's 96 00:07:53.040 --> 00:07:56.800 where that's those are the kinds of things we're doing. Jerry Jerry Is, 97 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:01.360 he says he needs my joke book, but you don't know, you don't 98 00:08:01.399 --> 00:08:05.759 know what's going to be relevant. He's a very funny guy. He was 99 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:13.199 he is a devoted fan of the Honeymooners and Ralph Cromdon, right, And 100 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.800 there's one point he was close with Jim Buckley and visiting Jim Buckley. Turned 101 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:24.399 out Jim Buckley up the Connecticut had these dancing lessons with the family nearby which 102 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.360 was which included Audrey Meadows, and he said, well, can you tell 103 00:08:28.519 --> 00:08:37.279 me you had your dancing lessons with Alice Bramdon. Really but anyway, that's 104 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:43.960 that's the kind of life that and he's what he went to Cornell Law school 105 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.799 and instead of he dropped it, graduated at the top of his class, 106 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.159 and instead of going on to become a clerk for a notable judge, he 107 00:08:52.279 --> 00:08:58.559 decided to plunge into the ready work of being a prosecutor in Manhattan, working 108 00:08:58.759 --> 00:09:03.559 for that amous class of the Ammers class of nineteen forty two, Robert Margavel 109 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.799 the da there, he quite a lot of experience before he went out down 110 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:13.240 to the academy, to the Universus Illinois. I met him thirty some years 111 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.440 ago, and then to Notre Dame where he's He's got two or three kids 112 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:22.480 now who are working at the Supreme Court. He's produced eight children, three 113 00:09:22.519 --> 00:09:30.720 or four lawyers, and his wife Pam was second great second in the class, 114 00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:37.480 was behind Jerry Bronell. She decided to raised children with him. It's 115 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:43.159 a remarkable family, you told me. Jerry's object along was reversed roe versus 116 00:09:43.159 --> 00:09:46.720 way. At eighteen years old, he applied the law school, saying he 117 00:09:46.840 --> 00:09:52.720 wanted so he was ten years old when Brizold was inside on contraception, So 118 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:56.120 he was eighteen years old when Rovers his way to start. He wrote to 119 00:09:56.159 --> 00:10:00.639 say, why fied the law school. I want to go to law school 120 00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:03.679 because I want to over versus way. Of course, that was not a 121 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.360 winning message in getting into the best law schools. But he managed to get 122 00:10:07.399 --> 00:10:11.960 into Cornell where he had gone to college, and moved moved out from there. 123 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:18.000 But he's but at the same time, his writing has been so precise 124 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:24.519 and penetrating and so clear. He's the perfect successor for me in this project. 125 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:33.600 We're both focusing on the fact that the Conservators is persistently steering around those 126 00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:37.000 questions are more subtant are the heart of the cases? Can I ask you 127 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:43.360 this is somewhat delicate question. Oh, has Jerry ever said to you anything 128 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:48.440 about his Notre Dame faculty colleague, Amy Cony Barrett that you can share with 129 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:50.200 us? And the reason I asked that is Lucretian and I have a young 130 00:10:50.240 --> 00:10:54.840 friend, a recent Notre Dame law school graduate, very solid guy. He 131 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:58.080 really love this guy. But I think he might have been through your program. 132 00:10:58.279 --> 00:11:01.759 I won't mention this, but I will say this. He said she's 133 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:05.679 good but could be better. And I'll just want to pause there, and 134 00:11:05.159 --> 00:11:11.120 if you wish to make a comment, that's from everybody, Thomas right, 135 00:11:11.759 --> 00:11:13.639 I'll just leave it there. If you want to say something, and we 136 00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:16.200 asked over discreetly, that's fine too know this, and that she's starting to 137 00:11:16.200 --> 00:11:26.240 be told. We had she and her husband were students of Jerry's and when 138 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:30.240 we had our students in for our seminar summer seminar for the James Institute, 139 00:11:30.399 --> 00:11:33.159 and we took them over to visit it with any art. But what I 140 00:11:33.200 --> 00:11:39.840 remember is that I shared a platform with her several years ago at the Lion's 141 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:45.840 Defending Freedom, and she was an accolade of scholias, remember, for the 142 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:50.440 positive law. And some student, picking up on what I was doing, 143 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:54.559 asked her, why do you this is telling story? She said, why 144 00:11:54.559 --> 00:11:58.279 do you have such a reference for the positive law? The lot simply in 145 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.600 that, okay, And she was a little thrown back by then. But 146 00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:07.840 the key came in those three questions from John Locke, where it was, 147 00:12:07.399 --> 00:12:11.480 what is the source of the law, the legislature that makes the law? 148 00:12:11.159 --> 00:12:13.240 Well, what is the source of the legislature? How do you know you 149 00:12:13.279 --> 00:12:18.440 have one? It's in the constitution. Ah, But then what is the 150 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:24.159 source of the constitution It must be he said, something wholly antecedent to the 151 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.679 positive law involving the terms of principle a which of people will be governed no 152 00:12:30.840 --> 00:12:33.679 man as by nature, the rule of other men the way that men are 153 00:12:33.720 --> 00:12:37.919 by the nature rules or horses and cows. Now, Scalia said, that's 154 00:12:37.960 --> 00:12:43.879 a lovely settlement, but it's never been enacted, and the response was, 155 00:12:43.360 --> 00:12:48.720 of course, it couldn't be enacted. It was the point of principle that 156 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:52.639 has to be in place before we knew who had the authority to announce anything. 157 00:12:54.799 --> 00:13:00.960 Now, I think avending moment that she really she really was a really 158 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.080 close to Scalia. I had some story today that she was really not keen 159 00:13:05.679 --> 00:13:11.159 on taking the Dobs case an over ruling row. Something was holding her back. 160 00:13:11.759 --> 00:13:16.080 She is cautious. She is cautious, and I think there is that 161 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:22.840 lingering effect of school with her. Well, we're going to get more deeply 162 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.120 into this before I do a little bit of biography. Lucretia, did you 163 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:31.120 want to particular question come in on what we've done so far. I'm just 164 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:33.759 in awe. I'm just listening. I had questions along the way, but 165 00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:37.840 there we'll move on and I'll come back to them. Okay, I have 166 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:41.799 to understand something you're having. This is very unusual for Lucretia to sit so 167 00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:46.000 quietly and politely for this lot of time. Sorry, Lucretia, I have 168 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:50.039 to say that, but I just don't sit quietly and politely for you, 169 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.679 Steve. So she beats up on me for my weaknesses and beats up on 170 00:13:52.759 --> 00:13:56.720 John for being a positivist. But see tonight we've got three total positivests here. 171 00:13:56.799 --> 00:14:01.360 See, so she has a work to do, and when see, 172 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:03.559 we rotate the host duties, and so when she's the host, we interrupt 173 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.240 her just shamelessly, just because to get bad anything. So before we go 174 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:11.879 on, I do have to just mention briefly John's not here. I'm gonna 175 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:15.480 I can't. I can't help myself, you can ask Steve. He and 176 00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:22.480 I went back and forth how many times on hugely long text messages where I 177 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:28.159 argued I sent him Victor Davis Hansen's argument about the you know, basically, 178 00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:33.720 the the fact that our justice is no longer blind and it's you know, 179 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:39.879 it's entirely partisan in one direction, and John came back with, I don't 180 00:14:39.879 --> 00:14:45.240 even accept the premises that as in that there's somehow has been a difference of 181 00:14:46.519 --> 00:14:50.840 a difference in kind of prosecuting the left versus the right out of the DOJ 182 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:54.399 is. It just went on from there, and I'm very The only reason 183 00:14:54.720 --> 00:15:00.360 that I'm disappointed that it's you that I agree with who's here and not John, 184 00:15:00.399 --> 00:15:03.639 who is just so wrong about so many things, is I was in 185 00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:05.360 a little bit of a fighting mood, but you've taken all the fight out 186 00:15:05.399 --> 00:15:11.559 of me. I'm just listening. Will leave it that he's often so solid, 187 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.519 he's often so slwet. Tell me now there's a really great positivist there 188 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.480 that well can't break out of it. Yeah, Oh no, he'll admit 189 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:20.399 it, by the way, I mean, when you press him on it, 190 00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:24.720 it's that's pretty funny. Remember, he likes to say things like, 191 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:28.279 well, the natural law of seventeen eighty seven is not the natural law of 192 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:33.559 today. Oh, it's all conventional, it's all conventional. Well, but 193 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:39.080 I mean he actually thinks that, he thinks that the appeal to natural law 194 00:15:39.240 --> 00:15:43.720 that the Founders made is not relevant today because that existed then, but it 195 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:48.840 doesn't exist anymore, betraying a complete lack of understanding about what natural law is. 196 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:50.159 Well, you know, I'm not well, you know, he's not 197 00:15:50.200 --> 00:15:52.440 here to defend himself. He'll probably listen to this. I don't care, 198 00:15:54.360 --> 00:16:00.399 but I sometimes I wonder if it's partially a pose of his because he does 199 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:02.480 say this once in a while. You know, you guys are starting to 200 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:06.799 you know, persuade me about this and that. Wait on, look, 201 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.120 let's tell his argument. I'm going to do this and that. I'll stop 202 00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:12.519 with John. But his argument about abortion is, well, that wasn't the 203 00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:18.200 natural law in place at the time of the fourteenth Amendment. Certainly it was 204 00:16:18.679 --> 00:16:22.240 the understanding of place at the time of the Fourteoplement. But let's say, 205 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:29.120 let's say, let's take that anchoring principle of moral and legal judgment understood by 206 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:34.279 Thomas Reed as well as compt and Quitas, that we don't impose judgment of 207 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.879 blame and praise our people for acts they were powerless to do. There, 208 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.200 Thomas Reed said that as true as any acts in you, we don't know 209 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:48.279 people blame worthy for acts they are powerless to do. Is that as relevant 210 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:52.960 today as it was in seventeen eighty nine? Of course it is. These 211 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:59.080 are necessary truths, and people like James Wilson, the founders thought this is 212 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:02.039 where things were anchor what was it around that life. I hammeled in the 213 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:07.480 Federals thirty one, the discosis of every time there are certain primary truths, 214 00:17:07.559 --> 00:17:11.640 are first principles upon which all subsequate these things must depend. Okay, And 215 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.920 they went wrong. From there there was an anchor. These people understood these 216 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:21.160 were anchoring truths. We can draw a system of jurispruce. It's not a 217 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:26.240 theory. It's not a theory that two contradicting probations both cannot be true. 218 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:30.599 And it's not really a theory that you don't hold somebody blameworthy for acts they 219 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:36.279 were prowdless to affect. And the pitch was, if I can indeed put 220 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:41.880 a system of jurisprudence together by just drawing out the implications of those premises. 221 00:17:42.680 --> 00:17:48.720 It's not a theory of natural it's not a theory. It's the real thing. 222 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.720 You know, it's in the book I You know, it's the creation 223 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:57.359 that I'm going. But I'm depending on Thomas Reid, cited by James Wilson, 224 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:02.680 one of our great founders. Incited by James Wilson in the very opening 225 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:08.319 lines of the very first case report in Supreme Court Reports Chisel versus Georgia, 226 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:12.200 and where Wilson says, at the beginning of the law, we have no 227 00:18:12.319 --> 00:18:18.359 precedence. We have to go back to the principles of generals. Before that, 228 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:22.400 we have to go back to Thomas Reed and the principles of mind of 229 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.920 how we know anything. And so this reroutinaling with that's a question of those 230 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:33.279 those precepts of common sense that the ordering man just has to know before he 231 00:18:33.359 --> 00:18:41.160 starts trafficking and theories. Before the arbage man would start bantering with David Yume 232 00:18:41.559 --> 00:18:47.960 about the meaning of causation. He knew his own active powers to cause his 233 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.640 own accident happened. Now, I can't believe. I can't believe John would 234 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:56.559 not be with me on this. I don't for a minute, Hadley, 235 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:57.799 I thought you were going to say that we don't hold someone, we don't 236 00:18:57.799 --> 00:19:02.279 blame someone who it was powerless to don't you put it? What's the house 237 00:19:02.319 --> 00:19:04.519 that line go? I keep swringing up. I thought you were saying that 238 00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:10.519 we don't hold John accountable because he's powerless to proceed. Didn't in the first 239 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:12.359 place. Okay, well, let me just tell you this. I want 240 00:19:12.359 --> 00:19:15.680 to move on, but I'll just mentioned this for you, Haley, and 241 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:19.720 for our listeners. John is currently at work on a constitutional biography of Alexander 242 00:19:19.759 --> 00:19:23.480 Hamilton, and I've not only said that, oh, you have to review 243 00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:26.279 it if he gets it wrong. I've been saying you better get Federals thirty 244 00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:30.319 one right. And I mentioned I hope you're going to treat that famous case 245 00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:33.799 of Rutgers be Wantington of You know, you probably know that case from New 246 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:38.079 York City in seventeen eighty four, whatever it was, And that's where Hamilton 247 00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.839 had to rely on the natural law to make his arguments on behalf of the 248 00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:47.480 I forget how that it was the just a little revolutionary war leftover case of 249 00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.920 claims proper. Anyway, it was a natural argument he repaired to for the 250 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.240 same reasons of Chisholm versus Georgia. You didn't have precedence to go on. 251 00:19:55.359 --> 00:19:59.359 You had to go to first principles. Genius. He was a genius. 252 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:04.880 Yeah, okay, but he now I remember seeing that that memo he wrote 253 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:11.559 for Washington on the National Bank, the Constitution of National Bank, right along 254 00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.960 the lines that John Marshallill later moved in mccauch versus Maryland. But he takes 255 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:22.400 a turn that big field a mind in another register. It's clear that Jimmy 256 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:26.079 Madison could not have written that line. No, yeah, you know it's 257 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:32.039 only you know. No, it's kind of we're doing in the project here 258 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:37.559 is trying to restore the furnishings of mind of these men, the way the 259 00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:40.880 Hamilton used to think about these things. And look, he did it. 260 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.039 He left us a record, He showed us how he reasoned through the stuff, 261 00:20:44.359 --> 00:20:47.599 which we're doing. But you want to talk about Chicago when I did 262 00:20:47.640 --> 00:20:49.680 in Chicago or something. Yeah, But before we get there, let's answer. 263 00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.519 I want I do want you to talk about Chicago. But I want 264 00:20:52.559 --> 00:20:57.039 to go back to Steve's original question and ask a couple of tangential questions to 265 00:20:57.119 --> 00:21:02.000 that. So Steve's original question was, what the what? What in the 266 00:21:02.039 --> 00:21:04.599 hell is wrong with Republicans? Why is this so hard for them? Abortion 267 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:11.279 is a winning issue? Third? But okay, I'm sorry. I thought 268 00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:15.720 that was a question that stuck with me. But thinking about what you just 269 00:21:15.759 --> 00:21:19.680 said about we don't hold someone blameworthy for acts that they were powerless to control. 270 00:21:21.440 --> 00:21:22.759 I'm jumping, but I'm going to get back to where I was. 271 00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:29.720 You probably heard this past week that a father was held guilty. He was 272 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:38.039 found guilty for involuntary manslaughter because he didn't properly control his son's access to guns. 273 00:21:38.279 --> 00:21:44.680 I actually didn't follow the case really super carefully, and something like up 274 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.720 on us here it looks like, but yeah, it froze up on us 275 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:49.960 from that, Lucretia, you know, an internet hiccup. That's all right, 276 00:21:51.000 --> 00:21:52.839 It wasn't you. It was the It was you know, Apple or 277 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.799 something to us. Uh, yeah, are you following what she's talking about, 278 00:21:56.799 --> 00:21:59.119 Hadley or go ahead, Lucretia. I was just gonna say, because 279 00:21:59.240 --> 00:22:03.000 the only reason I bring that up is it actually brought forth something of a 280 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:07.279 debate about exactly what you're talking about. What does it mean to be responsible 281 00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:11.480 for a criminal act? What does it mean to be held responsible for a 282 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.119 criminal act? And does it make any sense to hold someone responsible for a 283 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:22.559 criminal act committed by someone else. So I think that here's the point I 284 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:25.279 wanted to make, and that is, if we get back to that very 285 00:22:25.319 --> 00:22:29.920 basic, simple idea that you have in mind of those anchoring truths, abortion 286 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:34.119 becomes a simple, simple matter to me. Certainly, there's tragedy involved in 287 00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:38.599 many cases, a young woman who's raped or you know, she's the victim 288 00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.599 of you know, rape by a family member, and it's incest, you 289 00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:48.480 know, those those tragedies that happen. But it's not that complicated, right, 290 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.920 It's just not that complicated. But we can't think anymore. We have 291 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.759 to feel everything. I mean, I get drives me crazy. Even No, 292 00:22:56.920 --> 00:23:00.640 it's no longer students. It's people almost my age who say I feel 293 00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:06.599 like this when they actually mean I think because they're incapable of thinking anymore, 294 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:11.000 and they're capable of thinking really about those anchoring simple truths that if you would 295 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:15.000 just start there and build very carefully, rationally from those simple truths, a 296 00:23:15.000 --> 00:23:18.359 lot of things become a little a lot more clear, That's all. And 297 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:22.519 I wonder what you thought about that. I'm curious. The Conservatives and Tris 298 00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.079 Brunson said we will kick this out of the courts, return it to the 299 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.839 political areada. And when they do that, they're turning into a political class 300 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:37.160 that has lost any capacity for talking about this. It's evident these people have 301 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:41.480 not spent ten minutes in any serious conversation. Now, Steve knows, and 302 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.200 you know, to THEIA we've taken as the model of the argument here that 303 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:52.480 natural law argumented once. The link gave is that that abstract he wrote for 304 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:59.160 himself discussing with slaver Older about the meaning of why is he justin in the 305 00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:03.839 owning slaves? And in my own experience when people hear this argument, they 306 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:07.759 understand it at once, And you don't need a college education. He'd say, 307 00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:11.000 why you justify? Is it because you are smarter than he is? 308 00:24:11.079 --> 00:24:15.400 Well, so beware the next white matter is the law smarter than humane slave 309 00:24:15.880 --> 00:24:19.319 is? Because he was talking to you, what next white matter comes along 310 00:24:19.920 --> 00:24:23.599 with a complexion lighter the news mean slave? Here the op shot, there's 311 00:24:23.640 --> 00:24:29.079 nothing you could side in a principal way that would put the black men in 312 00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:32.720 slavery. It would not apply to many whites as well. So he simply 313 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:37.119 true on the same mode of principled armament, Why is that offspring in the 314 00:24:37.119 --> 00:24:40.599 world anything less than union? Didn't speak it well, neither of the deaf 315 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:44.839 mutes doesn't have arms and legs. Other people lose arms to the course of 316 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.119 their lives without losing anything necessary to gout standing as human beings to receive the 317 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:53.319 protection the law. You don't need a college education to understand this, and 318 00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:56.359 in fact you don't have to be Catholic. In fact, that's the position 319 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.200 of the Catholic Church. That's no, it's no appeal to believe. It's 320 00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:06.480 a matter of the facts of embryology combined with principal reasoning. And some of 321 00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:08.839 our politicians talk about so they don't know this. So you have this, 322 00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:14.920 this decision on IVS, and it throws them into a panic. All they 323 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.039 said is, look, it's it's it's a it's a It's The reason you're 324 00:25:18.079 --> 00:25:22.000 having this is because you can you can make this into a pregnancy. It's 325 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:25.359 it's a child. But if it is human being, you just can't destroy 326 00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:29.240 it. It will. Of course you can use iv But anyway, it 327 00:25:29.359 --> 00:25:37.200 is curious that I find my pitch's bien for Trump to forget about fifteen weeks 328 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:40.160 and six weeks. You know, I want to go back to my old 329 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:45.079 bill to test the argument in the most modesty. Can we protect the child 330 00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.039 who survived the abortion? Because no one's arguing over the wather child is human. 331 00:25:51.799 --> 00:25:56.480 It's the women interests. The women are discomfort But of course we have 332 00:25:56.720 --> 00:26:00.400 judges who are telling us we can't do that. Well, we brought fourth 333 00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:06.319 that bill in two thousand and two it was supported in that it was passed 334 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:11.160 to a Democratic Senate with the Democrats and controlled Senate Harry Reid boarded the floor. 335 00:26:11.720 --> 00:26:17.400 Now we did they We stripped the penalties. Penalties were stripped from the 336 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.839 bill for the sake of a burning of veto from bill click, which I 337 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:25.359 didn't think we had to do. But the years later we had this experience 338 00:26:25.559 --> 00:26:30.799 of doctor Gosnell in Philadelphia snippings a baby who survived the wars. So we 339 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:37.400 decided to bring back to restore the penalties. But we did that. The 340 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:41.920 striking difference now is that the parties were now cohesively in opposition Virch. The 341 00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:48.279 every Democrat in the House voted against the bill to protect the child one online. 342 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.000 I've done that. They've done that three times since twenty fifty. And 343 00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:59.759 my pitch doctor Trump now is, don't argue about fifteen weeks or sixty. 344 00:26:59.839 --> 00:27:03.079 You couldn't get sixty votes in the Senate to bring the fifteen week build to 345 00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:07.680 the floor. Let's put the focus on the place that is most embarrassing and 346 00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:12.680 most radical for the Democrats. Let them defend that it's the simplest thing for 347 00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:18.720 you to use. No, oh, you're trying to propose an action white 348 00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:22.519 bent on abortion, something that saying, look, you people already voted for 349 00:27:22.559 --> 00:27:27.480 the bill. You told us it was wrong to kill a child born alive. 350 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:32.440 How serious about are you about it? What should be the penalty for 351 00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:37.440 that? Put the focus on that, To use a technical term, My 352 00:27:37.480 --> 00:27:41.200 pitch to Trump has been, you'd be a schmuck not to do this. 353 00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.920 That leads me to ask you one thing about something you said, which was 354 00:27:48.440 --> 00:27:52.440 you don't have to have a college education to know this. And I would 355 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.839 actually argue, I would argue two points from that. The first one is 356 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:03.440 you are probably less likely to know that or anything else if you do education. 357 00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:07.799 And secondly, I would argue not to get off because no Steve does 358 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.359 and I say, do I want to hear some interesting biographical details here. 359 00:28:12.359 --> 00:28:18.759 But I would argue too that the reason Trump is popular goes all the way 360 00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:26.680 back to that fundamental truth, which is he appeals to a common sense and 361 00:28:26.680 --> 00:28:36.480 and to those basic anchoring truths that the the the flyover states the uneducated, 362 00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:40.200 non college educated, working people. I don't know what you want to call 363 00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.559 it, and it's not white people. It's obviously not white people. It's 364 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:48.640 people of a certain socioeconomic class and level of sophistication. Shall we say, 365 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:53.839 who can understand common sense? Who can understand those basic truths? And he 366 00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.319 appeals to that, and that's the reason the elites hate him so much. 367 00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.400 On this issue. He simply talks like a marketer. He says, it 368 00:29:03.559 --> 00:29:07.720 was it was a terrible thing for Ron Desanta's to make it at six weeks 369 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.720 in the time that starts being, we'd had better than fifteen weeks. Dah, 370 00:29:11.839 --> 00:29:17.160 We're talking about the same entity. It's the same human thing. Does 371 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:22.240 he not understand that? I mean, if you're told, look, remember 372 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:25.680 the people arguing, some people are arguing that he should be allowed five or 373 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.079 six days to decide whether you want to keep the baby who's born. So 374 00:29:29.160 --> 00:29:30.759 let's say we came back to Trump and said, gee, these laws are 375 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:34.240 in fantaside. Should they be extended all the way to five weeks? Is 376 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:38.200 it a terrible thing to make a child? At that point it'll make no 377 00:29:38.319 --> 00:29:41.319 sense. But then he gets to this thing. He's just thinking, as 378 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.839 a marketer, what can I sell? I can sell fifteen weeks? He 379 00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:55.079 forgets what the subject is about. But you're absolutely right, people, but 380 00:29:55.240 --> 00:30:00.559 not that great old joke of red skeletons, a joke from a culture that's 381 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:03.400 fled. When he said they had a military wedding, I think they had 382 00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:07.440 a military wedding. That's what at this one. There were guns there. 383 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:17.039 Yeah, definitely that was that was a joke from a culture that's flitting. 384 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:22.119 But the people, even the pat us A didn't think they had to write 385 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:26.640 the throat away. Well, sorry, yeah, I'm gonna say so, 386 00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.119 so had Lucretian I have been you don't know this, Lucretian, I think 387 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.480 I've we've been doing this together now for five years. I think, wow, 388 00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:37.039 a week and one of the one of our early themes. Had they 389 00:30:37.240 --> 00:30:40.240 actually Lucretia is the one who said this first. I give her a full 390 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.960 credit for this. Democrats have gone from saying, like Bill Clinton did, 391 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:48.319 abortions should be safe, legal, and rare. That was his concession to 392 00:30:48.480 --> 00:30:55.440 understanding not only public opinion broadly, but I think even in his old goofy 393 00:30:55.640 --> 00:31:00.279 Southern Baptist mind that he was raised and he knew that there was something helpful 394 00:31:00.319 --> 00:31:03.480 about abortion. And now, LUCREATI you want to finish the sentence. Democrats 395 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:11.279 like abortion is like the positive good right, So they won't say Hillary rare 396 00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:17.720 right, They're celebrated, promoted, promoted, removed, remove any inhibition of 397 00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:22.880 the laws right way. So I'm going to see if I can offend both 398 00:31:22.880 --> 00:31:26.319 of you with this analogy here for a moment. So had they brought up, 399 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:33.119 you know, the famous, uh, the Lincoln's famous fragment about slavery, 400 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:38.759 could we argue that Trump, being being the marketer that he is, 401 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:48.119 is recognizing that there's not going to be any any progress on the issue of 402 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:53.079 abortion in this environment with Democrats thinking it is their number one mission winning issue 403 00:31:53.519 --> 00:32:00.880 without a kind of marketing that would be similar to say something like I I'm 404 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:06.079 no more than any other man in favor of bringing about the social and political 405 00:32:06.200 --> 00:32:10.119 equality of blacks, or something along those lines. Understanding the moment and the 406 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:14.359 audience. Oh no, no, I have to jump in here, Sorry, 407 00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:15.880 Haley, I have to jump here to say what I was gonna do 408 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.920 with In Trump's case, I've got to go back and find her correspondence on 409 00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:23.799 this, Hapley. But I remember vaguely back in the year two thousand, 410 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:28.839 I'd read a little article. You might the context is this for you and 411 00:32:28.880 --> 00:32:34.119 listeners, I think Gary Bower and some other social conservatives said, we're not 412 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.319 too sure about George W. Bush. He's not speaking very clearly on abortion. 413 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:43.440 And I wrote this little dialogue that used Lincoln's language along the lines of 414 00:32:43.440 --> 00:32:45.519 the creature, just suggested, how do you have, on the one hand, 415 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:51.039 the back of your mind that that hierarchy you just mentioned of Lincoln's, 416 00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:54.599 that fragment of Lincoln's on the metaphysical wrongness of slavery? And then how do 417 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:59.079 you maneuver with prudence in the political world as we have it? And I 418 00:32:59.160 --> 00:33:02.960 wrote this little dialogue and you called me up because I'd forgotten this until just 419 00:33:04.200 --> 00:33:06.720 this morning. You called me up and said, why the heck isn't Bush 420 00:33:06.759 --> 00:33:12.000 talking like that? And I don't know, He's a busk. The Bushes 421 00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:14.640 don't know how to talk. But the point, my point of bringing that 422 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:17.400 up is this is a long standing problem. And I guess we should not 423 00:33:17.440 --> 00:33:22.039 have been surprised that after Dobbs came down, all of a sudden, all 424 00:33:22.039 --> 00:33:28.000 the people said their pro life were suddenly mute. And anyway, so Trump, 425 00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:30.319 I mean, I mean, what Trump, for all his uh thinking 426 00:33:30.359 --> 00:33:35.200 as a marketer, his instincts on this turned out to be perhaps kind of 427 00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:39.519 linc cony, and that's what apprecia. Let me offer another it's a little 428 00:33:39.559 --> 00:33:43.720 strong, but yeah, okay, off another approach, and he could do 429 00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:47.440 just disease. I want to bring both sides together. Wherever we are, 430 00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:52.480 we could certainly agree that we can protect the child who's born no law. 431 00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:55.200 He would get many pro people of pro choice. I think there are some 432 00:33:55.400 --> 00:34:00.359 restrictions to be there, and so I think it is okay, why don't 433 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:04.799 we begin? I could say, let's make both people have size head. 434 00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:07.559 Why don't we begin at the point where we certainly can agree both sides, 435 00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:12.119 and then we'll start there, and then we'll come back to the fifteen weeks. 436 00:34:12.159 --> 00:34:15.480 And what we'll tell you is we'll tell you, look, if you 437 00:34:15.480 --> 00:34:20.079 can see that point, tell us what is the difference between that child and 438 00:34:20.119 --> 00:34:24.760 the same child five minutes earlier, five weeks, five months? I ask 439 00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:29.079 you, why not fifteen weeks? But here's the point. We have to 440 00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:32.760 persuade you. If we don't persuade you, that's it. We'll have to 441 00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:37.519 come back another time. There's no danger for you here. But why don't 442 00:34:37.519 --> 00:34:40.559 we start with the beginning to stay We recognize that is a child with the 443 00:34:40.639 --> 00:34:45.599 grant production, start there and work away. I don't know why if that 444 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.400 would not be as easy for him to use as anything, he could use 445 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:53.360 it definitely. But now I hear that Kelly ab is saying, oh no, 446 00:34:53.840 --> 00:35:08.519 it's back, and what the the conceptus in the ivy IV the frozen 447 00:35:08.519 --> 00:35:14.199 embryo is not a real being. And I think her direction, I fear 448 00:35:14.639 --> 00:35:21.519 her talk has been the the her advice will be the callous advice of these 449 00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:23.440 Republicans that don't want to think through, do not want to talk about it, 450 00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:29.719 saying us don't talk about it. It makes people uncomfortable. But he's 451 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:34.440 going to lose on this one because look, mister and missus Obama have told 452 00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.559 us they're in regardless as central and it's precisely because they know the Republicans are 453 00:35:39.760 --> 00:35:43.840 firse to talking about it, that they're going to make them talk about it. 454 00:35:44.519 --> 00:35:49.360 So I think there's some evidence that Trump declaring himself pro life and the 455 00:35:49.360 --> 00:35:55.840 debates with Hillary was a non trivial factor in him. It's the most natural 456 00:35:55.880 --> 00:36:00.880 follow he said, you're tearing that child away at a point of birth. 457 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:06.519 Okay, pick it up a very point say okay, Now the child is 458 00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:09.079 born a lot. You tell me we cannot protect that child. Yeah, 459 00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:15.119 but don't don't misunderestimate, because you said it yourself, don't misunderestimate the left's 460 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:22.800 response to that, which is, they will refuse to tolerate any limitations whatsoever, 461 00:36:22.920 --> 00:36:24.960 and they will fight him on that point. I agree with you that 462 00:36:25.400 --> 00:36:30.119 the majority of people in the middle and to either side of the middle will 463 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:36.159 agree on that point. But but the left will. The left will make 464 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:42.199 that which they've shown to do before. I mean, that guy in in 465 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:47.239 Virginia is still considered a viable human being after remarking, well, that's up 466 00:36:47.280 --> 00:36:52.079 to her doctor and and her to decide if the baby's going to get to 467 00:36:52.119 --> 00:36:55.280 live after it's born alive in a botched abortion. And you know he wasn't. 468 00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:59.559 I mean, he wasn't shot for you know, just being such a 469 00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:04.559 violu and being he didn't deserve to live. So I guess what I'm saying 470 00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:08.840 is, even though too reasonable people, that seems like such a reasonable thing, 471 00:37:09.079 --> 00:37:13.400 such such an easy thing we could all agree on, but they won't 472 00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:16.559 because they're not. Only you're right, I thought only it came forth with 473 00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:22.360 this twenty years ago. We thought we'd shock most of the public to discover 474 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:25.360 that you could have an abortion kill the child. And I was, what 475 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:29.480 did I know? It's just a PhD in political science? Could I imagine 476 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:32.440 that the media would actually black it out so people would never hear it? 477 00:37:32.719 --> 00:37:39.320 That it's not even mentioned on Fox News that breat Bear would be on offering 478 00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:46.119 questions to presidential candidates in twenty sixteen and never raised this. But it's clear 479 00:37:46.159 --> 00:37:50.800 now there is a fix. Even Fox News will not talk about it, 480 00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:58.199 and Refect hearing evidence recently saying no, More and more Democrats that come into 481 00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:02.400 view that no, no, the decisions for BOS is that a child cannot 482 00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:06.760 be there. Yes, it's better that the child be dead. That I 483 00:38:07.039 --> 00:38:10.320 did, I give it away? What is what is mine? And uh, 484 00:38:10.679 --> 00:38:14.920 yeah it could be. When we had these votes in the House, 485 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:22.159 virtually every Democrat except five lingering pro life Democrats for in our last time only 486 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:29.800 one lingering pro life Democrats. The Democrats utterly cohesive in the assisting that the 487 00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:34.559 right abortion does not and does not finance limit even at birth. And I'm 488 00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:42.519 afraid now if they probably are reflected of a of opinion suadenly and I heard 489 00:38:42.559 --> 00:38:45.239 I just saw the figure today and I think it was Kim straussl appoint or 490 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:50.679 something like that, that that most Americans do not want to give up their 491 00:38:50.760 --> 00:38:57.840 cars for those electric vehicles. Again, Democrats about fifty a lot of this 492 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:02.320 and the other those people are touch You think it's badness, and the Republicans 493 00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.599 are again we think, my goodness, Democrats are floating wrong with this, 494 00:39:07.760 --> 00:39:15.760 with this left food drift, that this remarkable vote in the House refusing protect 495 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:20.880 the child at the point of birth, that may in fact be reflective of 496 00:39:20.880 --> 00:39:23.360 what's taking hold. I mean, I think the creation they have it right, 497 00:39:23.840 --> 00:39:28.159 that this is going to be not an oddity but something that we can 498 00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:31.199 expect them to do. But at least let's have it out. Let's let's 499 00:39:31.320 --> 00:39:37.480 let's make sure people understand what the alternative is here to restate Lucretia's point, 500 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:43.960 isn't uh is it the idea of of working the declension back down from partial 501 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.679 worth abortune. Isn't that the rough equivalent of Lincoln saying, let's prohibit slavery 502 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:51.800 in the territories we have the constitutional right to do that right. Isn't that? 503 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:54.599 Okay? That's I thought we would agree on this, But but but 504 00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.760 remember one of the things that was precipitated that the real crisis before the Civil 505 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:07.800 War was Harriet beecher Stowe's uncle Tom's cabin. Why because it I think it 506 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:14.840 did. It did for many people who were just as happy to kind of 507 00:40:14.880 --> 00:40:21.119 say, that's Southerner's problems and we don't have to It humanized the whole issue 508 00:40:21.159 --> 00:40:25.960 of slavery. It made them see the the abject cruelty and evil of it. 509 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:30.360 And it didn't Lincoln walk up to Harriet beecher Stowe and says, so 510 00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:34.519 you're you're the little lady who started the war or something like that. But 511 00:40:34.880 --> 00:40:40.880 I see parallels here again. I have friends I'm Catholic, Hadley, and 512 00:40:42.199 --> 00:40:46.840 I have friends who now they're retired, and they they go around and do 513 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:55.840 these little demonstrations at at schools with with resin fetuses at different stages of development, 514 00:40:55.880 --> 00:40:59.639 and they don't preach about it. They just kind of talk, did 515 00:40:59.679 --> 00:41:01.840 you know, oh, this is this is and it's you know, this 516 00:41:02.079 --> 00:41:07.239 this big, but it's a fully formed baby. And I'm sorry it's any 517 00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:14.000 inch because we're on uh we're not on on camera. And they will tell 518 00:41:14.039 --> 00:41:17.800 you that about ninety five percent of the time. They change, they change 519 00:41:17.840 --> 00:41:23.519 minds, they change hearts and minds. Just letting people know what really happens 520 00:41:23.519 --> 00:41:30.440 in abortion. Yeah, I'll just give people the ultrasound images of what what 521 00:41:30.480 --> 00:41:34.039 that bossing the worm looks like. When people decide, oh, doesn't look 522 00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.360 more like your family than my family? Sure? Oh yes, it makes 523 00:41:37.360 --> 00:41:43.559 absolutely. People have not had much serious conversation about about the something that what's 524 00:41:43.599 --> 00:41:47.119 done here. My hunch is especially against Joe Biden. Oh. By the 525 00:41:47.119 --> 00:41:52.079 way, Hadley at some point agate to do your Joe Biden imitation, which 526 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:54.679 used to be fellowless at that. Yeah, it used to be. Yeah, 527 00:41:54.679 --> 00:41:57.800 maybe you don't. Maybe you've lost it because I mean it was thirty 528 00:41:57.880 --> 00:42:00.639 years ago, and who thought this guy would still be around. Sorry. 529 00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:04.440 I got to think that if the Trump got his got his hands around this 530 00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:07.559 in the way you suggest, it would terrify Democrats like he terrifies it on 531 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:13.000 so many other issues, right, the immigration and the rest. Yeah, 532 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:16.159 all right, let's switch gears here, And can you guys still hear me. 533 00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:20.559 I'm having a little I'm having some internet trouble. Is your internet sunstable 534 00:42:20.599 --> 00:42:22.719 there, Steve? I was just going to type and tell you, but 535 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:30.920 Okay, we'll keep disappearing, and that may be. This may be on 536 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:34.519 my end. I'm not sure is a paper clip affecting to be you? 537 00:42:34.760 --> 00:42:40.599 Okay? Right, so Handley, I have this sort of uh, not 538 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.199 ridiculous question, but it will sound ridiculous. I want to know how a 539 00:42:45.320 --> 00:42:50.440 Jewish boy from Chicago ends up at the University of Chicago studying with Leo Strauss 540 00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:54.679 and ends up deciding after writing about the Marshall Plan for a doctoral dissertation, 541 00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:00.440 how you ended up as the natural law law as the chief focus of your 542 00:43:00.440 --> 00:43:05.559 work in your maturity. But so let's start a simple thing. How did 543 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:07.679 you decide? Where did you go to college? Resion of all and what 544 00:43:07.760 --> 00:43:10.320 attract You're going to Chicago and studying with Leo Strauss. I had a great 545 00:43:10.320 --> 00:43:15.320 professor in Illinois, Milton Raycove, the father of Jack ray Cove, most 546 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:22.320 loved man, a great teacher. He studied at Chicago with Hans margan Felt, 547 00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:27.519 great teacher on international politics. And as an undergraduate, I was trying 548 00:43:27.559 --> 00:43:32.199 to read market and so I was drawn to the University of Chicago, which 549 00:43:32.280 --> 00:43:39.400 was the greatest school of politics in the country. And this is the nineteen 550 00:43:39.440 --> 00:43:43.800 fifties, right, so mid nineteen fifties. Yeah, I'd say so. 551 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:46.440 I was graduating in sixty two, but I decided I really want to go 552 00:43:46.440 --> 00:43:52.280 to Chicago fifties. Sorry, Okay, I heard about Leo Strauss. I 553 00:43:52.280 --> 00:43:54.000 did some reading about him, but I'm sure it was all over my head, 554 00:43:54.920 --> 00:44:02.840 and I audited. I ordered Strauss's course first time I landed there, 555 00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:10.239 and when I came there from Morganton and international relations and the defensive national interest. 556 00:44:10.320 --> 00:44:15.320 But my book in the Martial Art was a good bye letter to Marbletone, 557 00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:21.239 because the point was that it's not in international relations. You're not simply 558 00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:25.280 defending the territory. You're defending the regime, a way of life that you're 559 00:44:25.320 --> 00:44:30.119 trying to preserve. That was the point, of course, Chris Strauss. 560 00:44:30.199 --> 00:44:32.079 That was the core of it, you know, and natural right and history 561 00:44:32.159 --> 00:44:36.519 that another way, due to page one thirty seven, I think the center 562 00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:42.039 of the book saying, when when the classics were concerned about the nature of 563 00:44:42.079 --> 00:44:47.920 the best regime, they applied they're the most important data of social life, 564 00:44:49.480 --> 00:44:53.719 Even more fundamental than the biological phenomena, was the nature of the regime on 565 00:44:53.800 --> 00:44:59.599 which we live. The critical difference changing the regime, from the regime of 566 00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:04.320 I'm in Germany to the regime of Hitler, from Batista in Cuba to the 567 00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.440 regime of Castro. These are the most consequential decisions of publical life. So 568 00:45:08.519 --> 00:45:14.800 my book on the Marshall Plann was trying to say what it was, What 569 00:45:14.840 --> 00:45:19.719 was the Marshall Plan? It was how did they assimilate the market plan, 570 00:45:20.320 --> 00:45:22.440 how did they fit into the American regime? What ants were higher and lower 571 00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:27.840 within the Marshall Plan. So it was kind of my goodbye letter to this 572 00:45:28.000 --> 00:45:32.800 to Margantown, and it drew me back into political philosophy, and it got 573 00:45:32.840 --> 00:45:38.159 me writing into into constitutional law and urban politics. They did a book called 574 00:45:38.199 --> 00:45:44.679 The Philosopher in the City, and one one, one thing after another. 575 00:45:44.679 --> 00:45:50.920 I was just drawn into these moral questions as they manifested themselves, and those 576 00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:54.800 practical decisions about right and wrong that have to be made in the in the 577 00:45:54.840 --> 00:46:00.360 course of the city. You know. I take remember having those students in 578 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:07.199 the sixties and Amas saying that war in Vietnam is not really a venture plagued 579 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.039 by bad luck and court management. It was thoroughly a moral and no more 580 00:46:12.079 --> 00:46:16.039 should else be ruled by some logic of its own, cut off from moral 581 00:46:16.039 --> 00:46:22.679 considerations. You take the same students through the cases that arise in urban politics 582 00:46:22.679 --> 00:46:25.440 and drugs, prostitution, abortion, and they turned around one hundred and eighty 583 00:46:25.440 --> 00:46:30.320 degrees. Now the reality is something really subjective feeling. You cannot let's stay 584 00:46:30.480 --> 00:46:34.920 reality. And if you talk that I've been back into the indictment of the 585 00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:38.079 war in Vietnam, it renders it trivial. It's not my kind of thing. 586 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:42.960 But I would want to interfere with you if you fout pleasure in well 587 00:46:43.039 --> 00:46:45.280 and so on. Well, anyway, so that got me into this and 588 00:46:45.320 --> 00:46:49.800 one thing run after another, and soon I up to hear heavy for a 589 00:46:49.840 --> 00:46:53.719 second about that particular book and then actually least to a question. I'm going 590 00:46:53.719 --> 00:46:57.440 to come to some way or another. But this is a good opportunity for 591 00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.039 it. But I remember, it's funny, I remember these crazy things. 592 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:05.000 I remember that you got a very harsh review for that book from of old 593 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.599 people and Bedfield. It was stupid. It was stupid. Yeah, And 594 00:47:09.079 --> 00:47:13.840 one of the persons who came to your defense I was an American spectator, 595 00:47:13.880 --> 00:47:17.280 I think in nineteen eighty one or eighty was Harry Jaffa and now Harry. 596 00:47:17.360 --> 00:47:21.920 Jaffa and Bedfield were great friends. They admired each other, liked each other, 597 00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.840 and and Jaffa came to your defense in a letter saying, boy, 598 00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:30.119 Banfield, you've got this all wrong. I think you're probably already familiar with 599 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:31.400 Jaffa by then. I don't know if you knew him yet. But what 600 00:47:31.599 --> 00:47:36.719 coming to is it's evident that Jaffa was an influence at you at some point. 601 00:47:36.800 --> 00:47:38.800 So what do you remember about coming across his work and in what ways 602 00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:45.719 it influenced you? Well, just as they said Socrates brought philosophy down out 603 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:51.719 of the heavens, there I have questions of the matters of right and wrong 604 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:57.039 that arise in our practical judgments day by day. It was Harry who brought 605 00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:01.320 stroused on the clouds from me to show in the most elegant, that most 606 00:48:01.360 --> 00:48:06.960 elegant book, The Price of the House Divided, and writing as he did 607 00:48:07.800 --> 00:48:12.559 with a man you know who had his interest in Elizabeth the literature when he's 608 00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:16.440 student, you know, Harry, showing how the whole tradition of moral clinical 609 00:48:16.480 --> 00:48:24.599 philocity came to bear on this the gravest crisis in the American regime, the 610 00:48:24.679 --> 00:48:29.199 crisis that took things all the way back to first things, first principles, 611 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.679 the terms on which we were constituted as a regime or country in the first 612 00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:38.920 place. No I became that that came up for us At Chicago. I 613 00:48:38.960 --> 00:48:44.239 was an a friend of mine in a seminar of Fark seminar of Chicago, 614 00:48:44.719 --> 00:48:49.320 Charles Imnahaower gave me that book, and that book made it profound difference for 615 00:48:49.480 --> 00:48:52.719 me. Of course, later it is I come to know Harry very well. 616 00:48:52.280 --> 00:48:55.719 And there's some talk about me going to Claremont years later. But you 617 00:48:55.760 --> 00:49:01.039 know it doesn't it. But Harry, Harry used to walk and philosophy and 618 00:49:01.079 --> 00:49:05.480 the city came out. He walked around with that book under his arm, 619 00:49:05.760 --> 00:49:08.159 stopping people on the street to tell him about the book, and that Anne 620 00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.960 Banfield came out and said, but stupid to think that you can give these 621 00:49:13.480 --> 00:49:17.320 principal judgments about matter as a public policy. And Harry said, what you're 622 00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:24.239 saying is that political philosophy is not, you know, plausible or comprehensible. 623 00:49:25.679 --> 00:49:31.239 He was at Bamfield, was a very practical math. He'd say, mister 624 00:49:31.280 --> 00:49:36.880 Strous would say. The sign there says do not smoking, mister Banford, 625 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:39.639 what should I do? And Benford say, mister Strouds, you may smoke. 626 00:49:40.159 --> 00:49:46.840 Okay, So I endorre at Banfield, and all of a sudden him 627 00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:52.360 turning on me in that way was just just kind of unbelievable. But Harry 628 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:58.239 did come to my rescue. Yeah, and along with Dan Robinson writing in 629 00:49:58.400 --> 00:50:02.800 a wonderful response. And I think of The Spectator when it came out. 630 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:08.840 That's right, it's still a good book. Oh no, it's I love 631 00:50:08.880 --> 00:50:14.599 the book. I remember seeing the time and well, right, but then 632 00:50:14.760 --> 00:50:19.360 of course you you you really turned I mean in the urban issue is that 633 00:50:19.400 --> 00:50:22.239 there's no book like The Philosopher and City. I have to say that still 634 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:28.320 after all these years. But then you're starting with First Things in what nineteen 635 00:50:28.360 --> 00:50:30.760 eighty seven, you're really right in the heart of the matter. Then, 636 00:50:31.159 --> 00:50:35.840 yeah, yeah, And I'm not sure what to ask you at this point. 637 00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:38.440 I mean, that was just a great fun stuff. So, I 638 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:42.800 mean, of course a lot of that in First Things, that great chapter 639 00:50:42.840 --> 00:50:47.760 on ro Versus Way and Blackman and how crazy that opinion was. When did 640 00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:52.119 you first become either a pro life or alert to the fact that this was 641 00:50:52.159 --> 00:50:57.360 the key to our portal to understanding how badly things have slipped off the rail, 642 00:50:57.440 --> 00:51:00.519 generally in a grasp of the first principles of law. Yeah, I 643 00:51:00.559 --> 00:51:05.280 was innocent about these things. And my dear friend Dan Robinson, you may 644 00:51:05.400 --> 00:51:12.280 note it was of the few h psycholagists flowed to Latin Greek who it was 645 00:51:12.360 --> 00:51:16.199 important figure in neurosciences. But I remember saying to them, it looks at 646 00:51:16.199 --> 00:51:20.880 the conceptist, it looks like a tabpole. He said, it's not a 647 00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:23.639 tadpole. Even when it looks like a tabpole, I can take pressure from 648 00:51:23.639 --> 00:51:28.480 one side to the other and you'd have an arm growing in a strange place. 649 00:51:29.119 --> 00:51:31.239 I started doing reading at it. I would read John Noonan and others, 650 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:36.880 and Paul Ramsey on reference points and deciding about abortion. And the most 651 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:40.920 rhyveting moment came as he was tracing back to you know, twelve weeks when 652 00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:46.679 the finger prints are discernible, eight weeks when maybe started swallowing or squinting, 653 00:51:47.400 --> 00:51:53.320 tracing it all the way back to the point when the the zygoed. The 654 00:51:53.400 --> 00:52:01.000 conceptis no that that already that pygoed no larger than the period at the end 655 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:07.360 of the sentence. Has everything we have. There's nothing we have now genetically 656 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:13.880 that defines us. Were there are a tendency to height our allergies that was 657 00:52:13.920 --> 00:52:19.199 not already there when we were that Zygote a larger period at the matter. 658 00:52:19.239 --> 00:52:22.440 It's just now it's growing. And we realized if any one of us was 659 00:52:22.480 --> 00:52:27.280 removed when we weren't that Zygote, we would not have been. The next 660 00:52:27.360 --> 00:52:31.559 pregnancy that ssygot alone was your Well, I had a riveting, riveting effect 661 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.400 and it's just a matter. Yet they look like clusters. It's not really 662 00:52:37.440 --> 00:52:43.199 a clusters of self, it's what you looked like at that point. So 663 00:52:43.320 --> 00:52:46.039 yes, that had a certain effect on me, and I began to write 664 00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:53.199 on the question and wrote something for Bill Buckley and then from Momont Horrits a 665 00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:58.039 commentary. But at the same time that Row versus Great came out, and 666 00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:00.800 so he said, we're overturned, we're overrun by events. But it kind 667 00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:06.320 of won me a place for commentary to write for commentary. But that that 668 00:53:06.440 --> 00:53:10.320 launched me. We've just lost Hadley for a minute. Here you're back. 669 00:53:10.480 --> 00:53:15.360 I know you lost me too. Oh shoot you we didn't lose Hadley. 670 00:53:15.880 --> 00:53:20.880 Okay, oh well maybe you lost me. Sorry, about that. Sorry 671 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:28.800 you I shouldn't say were you finished, because you're never quite finished. Well, 672 00:53:28.840 --> 00:53:35.599 I actually wanted to introduce another area where you have some heterodoxyuse I'll put 673 00:53:35.639 --> 00:53:37.719 it that way that I agree with, and it's on the free speech business. 674 00:53:37.760 --> 00:53:42.360 And as early as I think it was the Skuche case in nineteen seventy 675 00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:45.320 eight, you were saying, wait a minute, I mean, I think 676 00:53:45.320 --> 00:53:49.559 the ruling dogma on most areas of the right these days and well should just 677 00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:52.400 be for free speech. That's the answer to all these problems of political correctness 678 00:53:52.400 --> 00:53:57.599 and wocism on campus. Yeah. Wait, go ahead and go on that, 679 00:53:57.639 --> 00:54:00.000 because I'm with you on this. I think that's quite Yeah, go 680 00:54:00.039 --> 00:54:04.079 ahead, well, he said. Sam Alito said, one of the recent 681 00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.320 peaks that we now know it's a bedrock principle, is that we that we 682 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:13.679 cannot restrict speech when it was offensive. Well, this was the line we 683 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:21.639 heard from the ACLU defending the Nazis and Skokie in nineteen siventy. But Dave 684 00:54:23.159 --> 00:54:28.960 they Hamlin, the SUO says we protect every all kinds of speech, the 685 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:37.360 speech even that peaches was it popular or despicable? And the translation was obvious, 686 00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:44.440 but unpopular. By undespicable, we mean unpopular. They were ruling out 687 00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:49.159 the notion that there can become some kind of speech that may be offensive and 688 00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:54.800 principle now it really is the undoing of that marvelous classic case, the Chapunsky 689 00:54:54.880 --> 00:55:01.400 case to put rhode on where that was so simple and so in a part 690 00:55:01.400 --> 00:55:08.079 with common sense reasons. It recognized first that strictly speaking, in the law, 691 00:55:08.559 --> 00:55:14.519 you did not meet material touching to have an assault. You can hold 692 00:55:15.000 --> 00:55:17.679 a gun near somebody's head and click the trigger. You can shoot a delivery 693 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:24.360 at me, miss. You can send make assaulting and statistic phone calls in 694 00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:29.320 the middle of the night. That's an assault. And the recognition was that 695 00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:37.039 there's certain terms understood in the language, certain terms and gestures as recognized as 696 00:55:37.440 --> 00:55:45.920 assaulting and provocative and the meaning, and you can restrain those things without interfering 697 00:55:45.320 --> 00:55:52.000 with the substance of political freedom of political speech. So mister who's standing up 698 00:55:53.239 --> 00:55:59.639 at this uh his name has case me now at a PTA meeting in the 699 00:55:59.719 --> 00:56:07.039 Jersey and every other word was mother effing. And the point was by Rosenthalt, 700 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.400 by asking him to refrain from using that word, You're not iustraining him 701 00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:16.320 from giving the most searing attack on the school board. What's chief Justice Berger 702 00:56:16.360 --> 00:56:22.320 would say, you have a you have a couple having blacking a sexual embrace 703 00:56:22.400 --> 00:56:25.360 on the steps of city Hall, acting out a metaphor of what they think 704 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:31.039 the administration was doing for the city. Look at you can bar them from 705 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:37.880 that gesture to assault the sensibilities of people in the public place without interfering with 706 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:43.519 their freedom to make the most substance of attack on the administration. So there 707 00:56:43.519 --> 00:56:51.840 were clear guidelines here, and our people are just There was Seth Waxman who 708 00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:57.760 was arguing for the Supreme Court on the Fox Fox Fox network to defend the 709 00:56:57.880 --> 00:57:05.639 right to use what the what the FCC regard as as as distasteful language not 710 00:57:05.719 --> 00:57:09.320 fit for public the F word in the s H word. In the course 711 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:15.360 of his armments of the court, Seth Waxman never used those words. He 712 00:57:15.519 --> 00:57:22.400 wanted and my late my colleague George k speaking before a commencement audience at Amast 713 00:57:23.039 --> 00:57:29.440 with parents and children and something, wanted to defend Cone versus California, with 714 00:57:29.599 --> 00:57:35.199 Cone having a jacket at the courthouse in La saying F F the draft, 715 00:57:35.480 --> 00:57:39.239 F the draft. We never used the F word right now. So then 716 00:57:39.400 --> 00:57:45.360 the Supreme Court at the Ayanco case of the refusing a trademark to somebody wearing 717 00:57:45.840 --> 00:57:51.400 a product named f u c T f u c T and it's clear what 718 00:57:51.440 --> 00:57:53.920 they were doing. And John Roberts, well, you can you can just 719 00:57:55.239 --> 00:58:00.400 facilitate pulgarrity with this. Oh what does the statute say? What does it 720 00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:07.119 mean to be a moral This is needless. How did George Katam and Seth 721 00:58:07.159 --> 00:58:12.800 Waxman know the words they should be avoiding using in these public settings? That's 722 00:58:12.880 --> 00:58:17.239 all a truck driver would know. It did not It did not take college 723 00:58:17.280 --> 00:58:22.840 degree in the old the old case was was redependent on what ordinary people would 724 00:58:22.960 --> 00:58:29.559 understand about the meaning. The ordinary person can know the difference between a burning 725 00:58:29.679 --> 00:58:34.360 shoe box and a burning cross. We know that one is established as an 726 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:39.880 attack, as a signal of attack, and and uh on a race. 727 00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:45.400 There's there's nothing here overly clever. But our people have now, the conservatives 728 00:58:45.400 --> 00:58:51.559 that's not the best way to protect slaves is freedom of speech is to become 729 00:58:51.639 --> 00:58:54.239 relativistic on this one. And they can't mean it, they can't mean it, 730 00:58:54.280 --> 00:59:01.519 and they can't defend it because if on the premises are relatively we lose 731 00:59:01.559 --> 00:59:06.679 every time. By the way, yeah, we lose. If we've defended 732 00:59:06.719 --> 00:59:09.559 on the principles of relativism, we lose every time because the left is smarter 733 00:59:09.679 --> 00:59:14.440 than we are there, right, But what we're saying is, if they're 734 00:59:14.440 --> 00:59:17.400 on the personal relative isn't we cannot even give an account of the rightness of 735 00:59:17.480 --> 00:59:22.400 freedom speech and the only righteous stan Evans when we get into these things with 736 00:59:23.199 --> 00:59:28.920 the conservatives making us some clever move I think of stan Evans' line that the 737 00:59:29.000 --> 00:59:35.280 problem with pragmatism is that it never works. My point with that is that 738 00:59:35.480 --> 00:59:39.440 the left, the left, we won't do that. We won't say we 739 00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:45.480 won't stand on the principle that some things are truly offensive, that that from 740 00:59:45.519 --> 00:59:49.719 the river to the sea is truly offensive, and it can, in fact 741 00:59:50.360 --> 00:59:57.159 be in a decent society something that is not acceptable. But the left, 742 00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:01.119 again, like I say that they use our relative is against them, against 743 01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:07.719 us. If I don't put my pronouns in my bio and on my email, 744 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:15.199 on my zoom profile and in my email, I am offending those whose 745 01:00:16.280 --> 01:00:23.840 gender identity is fluid or who knows what, and I am being I am 746 01:00:23.880 --> 01:00:31.960 being told I am offensive by my refusal to use their preferred pronouns. Why 747 01:00:32.079 --> 01:00:36.280 why did I'm saying, why does that? Why does that affect them? 748 01:00:36.400 --> 01:00:39.079 Why does that offend them? They could if they're fluid. Why do you 749 01:00:39.199 --> 01:00:43.079 have to be fluid? I understand it, because you have to. You 750 01:00:43.159 --> 01:00:46.239 have to validate them in the modern language. You have to validate them or 751 01:00:46.239 --> 01:00:52.440 not they're not validated, Well, let validate themselves. You're saying, I 752 01:00:52.440 --> 01:01:00.679 am a woman. My problem is it okay referred to me as your excellency? 753 01:01:01.000 --> 01:01:09.079 I mean, how does it endangered Sam that you refuse to to get 754 01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:15.559 your pronouns? It's a knee and will to power, I believe, yeah, 755 01:01:16.000 --> 01:01:21.400 right right, we can force you to do it. Now. You 756 01:01:21.760 --> 01:01:25.119 mentioned a few minutes ago about the electric car madness and this pronoun madness. 757 01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:29.280 I, in my optimistic moments, I think this is true of electric cars. 758 01:01:29.320 --> 01:01:31.519 I'm hoping it's true for pronouns. This is going to be like when 759 01:01:31.719 --> 01:01:35.920 they've tried to make us adopt the metric system in the nineteen seventies and it 760 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:38.280 just didn't take. And like I say, I think that's going to be 761 01:01:38.320 --> 01:01:43.559 true of electric cars and hopefully the pronouns. Let's do one last thing here 762 01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:47.599 before we run out of time. That's just been a couple of minutes saying 763 01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:51.639 a few words about Mike Yulman. We talked about him a lot on the 764 01:01:51.679 --> 01:01:58.199 show and mentioned Electrical College. But I'm actually I'm actually interested in some personal 765 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:00.679 reflections. I mean, when did you meet him? And you know, 766 01:02:00.719 --> 01:02:04.559 I know he was a pro life warrior in the Reagan administration or other places, 767 01:02:04.880 --> 01:02:07.920 and so I don't tell us a little bit about your friendship with Mike 768 01:02:07.960 --> 01:02:10.360 Huleman if you will. For a couple of minutes, I kept hearing that's 769 01:02:10.400 --> 01:02:15.480 what counsels Mike, and he was in the White House, but he's always 770 01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:20.719 he was always having a meeting. Can never get together with him? Is 771 01:02:20.719 --> 01:02:23.760 the years was it? Or yeah? Yeah, we were trying to get 772 01:02:23.840 --> 01:02:28.119 us together. We didn't get together until after the Bush administration he left the 773 01:02:28.119 --> 01:02:31.880 White House. But I remember I was on the shortlist to be a writer 774 01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:37.000 for Reagan when he came in. I worked with Tony Dolan in the campaign. 775 01:02:37.960 --> 01:02:40.079 I used to say I wrote some of the best things that Reagan never 776 01:02:40.159 --> 01:02:46.880 said. Ah right, And I was on the shortlist and Ken Kachicken Gate. 777 01:02:47.000 --> 01:02:50.719 I don't know if he's just being sweet. He gave me a nice 778 01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:54.639 cop He said, the problem is you couldn't fold yourself into this. Uh, 779 01:02:54.960 --> 01:02:59.280 people read you. They know they know your voice. You couldn't. 780 01:02:59.360 --> 01:03:02.519 You couldn't change your voice. They recognize you right away. I don't know 781 01:03:02.559 --> 01:03:06.159 if he meant that, but no, people tell me that they recognize my 782 01:03:06.239 --> 01:03:07.920 voice. So I was on the I got Mike on the phone. I 783 01:03:07.960 --> 01:03:10.159 was on the running for this, and he said, look, you gotta 784 01:03:10.239 --> 01:03:15.679 understand, it's not always an occasion to write her chilliant things. What you 785 01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:21.000 may have to do is strike off a paragraph because the neurologists are coming to 786 01:03:20.880 --> 01:03:29.800 the top. I believe it. It's not all romantic, you know, 787 01:03:30.639 --> 01:03:36.119 right. So, so Mike was terrific. He was. He was a 788 01:03:36.199 --> 01:03:40.480 great original pro life I said. He was on television nineteen sixty seven in 789 01:03:40.559 --> 01:03:47.000 a program with Mike Decatas as the moderator. I was a little trial on 790 01:03:47.519 --> 01:03:52.719 abortion. And then you had Mildred Jefferson, the black, wonderful black doctor 791 01:03:53.239 --> 01:04:00.559 right and Reagan. Governor Reagan wrote in to say he was off by this, 792 01:04:00.159 --> 01:04:06.480 And Michael told Meldred, you come up with an excuse for going to 793 01:04:06.960 --> 01:04:12.599 California. Well, write to Reagan and have you invited him? And that's 794 01:04:12.599 --> 01:04:16.039 what they did. But Mike was just a marvel when Mike, Mike was 795 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:21.320 just a marvel's figure on the White House Council. He was he was, 796 01:04:23.519 --> 01:04:28.800 he was so literate, he was so witty, and he really believed that 797 01:04:28.880 --> 01:04:31.559 it was more important is to get the job done, to draw attention to 798 01:04:31.639 --> 01:04:38.119 the argument, than to take credit for it. And you know, it 799 01:04:38.280 --> 01:04:47.920 was like, what was it Harry joffas friend who wrote that book on e 800 01:04:48.000 --> 01:04:54.239 English professor and a great figure. I forgot And Harry said he'd break his 801 01:04:54.360 --> 01:04:59.079 arm if he wrote another sent sign another document for the Communist Party, you 802 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:04.480 know, And so so Mike, I break your arm if you write another 803 01:05:04.559 --> 01:05:09.159 one of these things and not put your name on it, and so be 804 01:05:09.280 --> 01:05:14.320 content to slide into obscurity and let other people take credit. Well, well, 805 01:05:14.360 --> 01:05:18.920 I mean, I think he was the principal drafter of Reagan's nineteen eighty 806 01:05:18.920 --> 01:05:23.039 four book Abortion and the Conscience of the Nation, which of course Nancy and 807 01:05:23.119 --> 01:05:26.400 then Robins and all the political people did not wanted to put out. And 808 01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:30.360 I think, you know, Mike never talked talked about his role in doing 809 01:05:30.360 --> 01:05:34.239 that and in the infighting to right never came. And the whole electoral call, 810 01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:36.480 I mean, you know, our our miltual power. Christa. Music 811 01:05:36.559 --> 01:05:40.159 did that wonderful article a year or two ago on the man who saved the 812 01:05:40.159 --> 01:05:43.199 Electoral College, which I think was a great account of all that. And 813 01:05:43.440 --> 01:05:45.239 Mike would never boast about that. And you know, yeah, there you 814 01:05:45.239 --> 01:05:49.440 are. And Harry, Harry Jeff wanted Mike to write that book on the 815 01:05:49.440 --> 01:05:54.159 electrocology, could get Mike like to do it. But who's that center? 816 01:05:54.199 --> 01:06:00.599 It was a proxmire, No, no, it was it was the one 817 01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:09.599 who ran against Johnson, the Senator McCarthy, right, Ye, McCarthy read 818 01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:15.360 Mike's report on the electric and that turned him. He was ready to vote 819 01:06:15.679 --> 01:06:21.840 until he read Mike, Mike Euleman's Mike Euleman's line on this. Yeah. 820 01:06:23.639 --> 01:06:28.760 I dedicated my book Natural Rights to the Right to Choose to Michael Human because 821 01:06:28.880 --> 01:06:31.440 he would never he never tout himself. He would never do it. You 822 01:06:31.559 --> 01:06:35.239 never taught himself. So this was the moment to sort of singing his praises 823 01:06:35.639 --> 01:06:42.079 and try to give him some kind of recognition. Ah, he's the dearest 824 01:06:42.119 --> 01:06:46.719 man and face he's the one who talked Clarence Thomas into thinking of the judiciary. 825 01:06:47.559 --> 01:06:53.440 Oh, and he told Bill Barr. He wanted Bill Barr to go 826 01:06:53.599 --> 01:07:04.639 to the Office of Legal Counsel and he wanted h and he and Thornberg made 827 01:07:04.639 --> 01:07:09.480 the decision that they're going to put Bill in as legal console. And they 828 01:07:09.559 --> 01:07:13.119 just they just put it. They just they decided they put on Bush's desk 829 01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:15.920 and they decided they're going to put him there. Mike ordered him to be 830 01:07:16.000 --> 01:07:21.239 there, and there he came on to to Attorney General. And then a 831 01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:29.639 vacancy occurred on the d C circuit the judge hip, and Bill offered it 832 01:07:29.679 --> 01:07:34.280 to Mike. But Mike, Mike, I mean one of the one of 833 01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:41.159 the children was their five children for four daughters, and the youngest one was 834 01:07:42.000 --> 01:07:45.559 run away from home. It was a real strain, and Mike just didn't 835 01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:49.159 think he could take this the judgeship on at this time. We just think 836 01:07:49.159 --> 01:07:55.960 he didn't really, he didn't give himself enough credit. And he's two humbles. 837 01:07:56.000 --> 01:08:00.880 We're not going to take take the spots the position that would do him. 838 01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:03.719 So he passed it up. And I think it was actually Clarence who 839 01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:09.400 took that up. And I remember we're asking Clarence, what did he say 840 01:08:09.440 --> 01:08:14.119 to you to doce you to do it? He called me. He said, 841 01:08:15.159 --> 01:08:17.720 it's a matter of obligation. There's certain things to which you are called, 842 01:08:19.600 --> 01:08:24.479 and this is something to what you're called. You have to think of 843 01:08:24.560 --> 01:08:29.399 it this way. And I remember, thanks to Mike told me about him 844 01:08:29.399 --> 01:08:31.359 and Clarence and I went to sit in a seminar. He and I are 845 01:08:31.359 --> 01:08:36.159 both speaking at the Harton's Foundation. I stopped and to see Clarence when he 846 01:08:36.279 --> 01:08:42.640 was at the just on DC Circuit and some gallant introducing him, Laura Scalia, 847 01:08:42.720 --> 01:08:45.960 no relation to Nino, said well, we're going to come back here 848 01:08:45.560 --> 01:08:48.800 one day. You're going to be in the Supreme Court. And Clarence says, 849 01:08:49.079 --> 01:08:53.520 that is not going to happen. Huh, this is three weeks before 850 01:08:53.560 --> 01:08:59.479 he was. And Laura said, when you say that, is that a 851 01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:03.319 thrown or do you know something we don't know? And Clarence said no. 852 01:09:03.439 --> 01:09:09.359 He said, I have colleagues on the DC Circuit who hear that they're on 853 01:09:09.399 --> 01:09:14.000 the shortlist, and that can effect the way they look at cases. Look 854 01:09:14.039 --> 01:09:17.720 at this case, how is it likely to play in a confirmation here? 855 01:09:18.520 --> 01:09:25.079 And people like Bett Cavanaugh and John Roberts. I'm sure Sor. And Clarence 856 01:09:25.079 --> 01:09:28.520 said, I find you could just bend yourself out of your mind. Not 857 01:09:29.840 --> 01:09:33.680 historic that way. He said. What I decided is these are beautiful chambers. 858 01:09:34.359 --> 01:09:39.159 This is an important vocation, and what I should now do is just 859 01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:45.800 learn how to do this well and make my life here. I got back. 860 01:09:45.760 --> 01:09:48.800 I saw my wife June. I said, wow, this guy is 861 01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:53.640 found his center of gravity and you could just throw a wrap on him and 862 01:09:53.760 --> 01:10:00.600 still be there. And three weeks later they were throwing that. Parents said, 863 01:10:00.119 --> 01:10:03.279 he told Jimmy, they want to kill me. He said that. 864 01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:06.640 He said that I thought I was being metaphorical. They really didn't want to 865 01:10:06.720 --> 01:10:13.640 kill it. But anyway, it was Mutt. It was Mutt sort of 866 01:10:13.680 --> 01:10:20.279 diminishing himself, putting Clarence Clarence in that. Mike with this remarkable generosity and 867 01:10:20.399 --> 01:10:28.039 this remarkable wit. It was a fine writer. He was persuasive and engaging. 868 01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:32.800 And you know, he drove Harry crazy because he wouldn't do that critical 869 01:10:32.800 --> 01:10:39.760 book at college. But Mike, somebody wanted to offer. Terry O'Rourke was 870 01:10:39.800 --> 01:10:45.760 pressing Mike to be run put himself running to be president of Claire. Ah. 871 01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:49.479 And the thing is you couldn't press Mike and to do anything he didn't 872 01:10:49.479 --> 01:10:54.439 want to do. Yeah, well I think he knew a college president's job 873 01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:58.520 is pretty miserable actually, as we know. But it would that it could 874 01:10:58.520 --> 01:11:01.239 have been a vocation. He could have made a profest difference judgment, you 875 01:11:01.239 --> 01:11:06.159 know, because he was at the Bradley Foundation and making a profound difference there. 876 01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:11.520 But you know, you're amazing. I mean you you know, you've 877 01:11:11.560 --> 01:11:15.079 done so much and you were you were called the philosopher the city and so 878 01:11:15.159 --> 01:11:18.920 many you know, Lucretia. I don't know how he does it. He 879 01:11:19.079 --> 01:11:25.039 just is nothing is low as you. He remembers what happened twenty five years 880 01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:30.319 ago and not what he said five minutes ago. Yeah, I was told. 881 01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:32.880 I was told last night by Robbie Joins. There's some line I got 882 01:11:32.920 --> 01:11:39.279 off thirty years ago at a meeting of Saint Louis University when the Jesuits trying 883 01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:44.880 to sandbag us and trying to Luis away from the opposition to abortion. They 884 01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:49.439 had the Scottish moderator Russ Hidger makes a good point. He said, okay, 885 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:54.520 question, oh tink. A number of questions and they remind me. 886 01:11:54.560 --> 01:12:00.239 I got up and said something like, well, the the moderator have a 887 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:09.319 style that is affably himilarium. Well, Hadly, it's been delightful to spend 888 01:12:09.319 --> 01:12:12.760 an hour with you to honor Mike but also honor you and draw out some 889 01:12:13.239 --> 01:12:15.399 additional thoughts. I had a whole bunch more questions, but we have run 890 01:12:15.520 --> 01:12:19.760 long, and we do have a peculiar way of ending the show. We'll 891 01:12:19.800 --> 01:12:23.359 do a little brief for tonight, but we so bear with us as we 892 01:12:23.920 --> 01:12:26.640 punch a couple of or took off a couple of boxes that we do. 893 01:12:26.760 --> 01:12:30.239 And so Lucretia, you have some Babylon beef heading you for first. That's 894 01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:35.880 first. We also have a we have a new practice of bringing up an 895 01:12:36.000 --> 01:12:40.479 article or two that we might want to discuss, and I did have one. 896 01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:43.239 It was very short and I don't need to discuss the article. But 897 01:12:43.399 --> 01:12:48.159 this this is timely and won't be next week. Yesterday was the beginning of 898 01:12:48.840 --> 01:12:54.199 four years ago to the day of fifteen weeks to end the seing days. 899 01:12:54.319 --> 01:12:57.399 Fifteen days, yeah, fifteen days sorry, fifteen days to end the spread. 900 01:12:57.640 --> 01:13:00.800 This week was the beginning the or your anniversary of fifteen days to end 901 01:13:00.800 --> 01:13:05.199 the spread, and I wish we had a lot of time to discuss your 902 01:13:05.239 --> 01:13:15.159 thoughts on on the incredible success by our elites of the whole COVID debacle. 903 01:13:15.199 --> 01:13:17.520 But I'll leave that first sight. I just thought i'd mentioned that maybe we 904 01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:20.600 pick it up a little bit next time, Steven talk about some of you 905 01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:26.840 could. I just wanted to get that out there, So, Bablanbee, 906 01:13:27.640 --> 01:13:31.800 one thing I simply do not understand, and probably never will is what kind 907 01:13:31.840 --> 01:13:39.119 of legal framework supports this whole idea of squatting and why any such laws laws 908 01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:43.079 anywhere? Well? WHOA, that's fascinating. Hey. By the way, 909 01:13:43.119 --> 01:13:47.840 I'll have an important piece coming out in public discourse next week about what we 910 01:13:47.960 --> 01:13:57.359 can seriously do to deal with those demonstrations on the campuses that would sing that 911 01:13:57.479 --> 01:14:00.640 yes, it's legitimate to get out on the campus, and you for making 912 01:14:00.720 --> 01:14:06.279 Palestine uten free. That yeah, that that kind of that kind of assault, 913 01:14:06.560 --> 01:14:12.239 killing parents in front of their children, The heading babies is defended by 914 01:14:12.319 --> 01:14:18.279 people on the campus is somehow justified in fringing the Palestinians. That is such 915 01:14:18.279 --> 01:14:24.239 a corrupt argument. I think we can say something more emphatic about the freedom 916 01:14:24.439 --> 01:14:30.199 understand the powers of the of the and the campus to make some serious moral 917 01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:34.039 put that the serious maral framework. Let me remind you what we said earlier 918 01:14:34.119 --> 01:14:39.840 quickly, which was that it's the elites who do not have any serious moral 919 01:14:39.880 --> 01:14:45.079 framework from which too. But but okay, so I still don't understand squatters. 920 01:14:45.119 --> 01:14:48.279 I don't understand what the laws are that that that somehow support this. 921 01:14:48.359 --> 01:14:53.479 I don't understand how someone who's the homeowner goes to the house and are and 922 01:14:53.520 --> 01:14:57.600 they are arrested for doing something to exercise their property. As I'll leave that 923 01:14:57.640 --> 01:15:00.239 aside. I'll just bring in the Babylon be here for moment because it's very 924 01:15:00.279 --> 01:15:08.199 funny. Checkmate, Trump sneaks back into White House, invokes squatter's rights, 925 01:15:10.800 --> 01:15:13.640 and you said, I have to keep it short, Steve, So so 926 01:15:14.920 --> 01:15:17.279 there. You know how the Babylon Bee likes to do lists, and it's 927 01:15:17.399 --> 01:15:21.039 who is the Antichrist? And they have a whole list of candidates. You 928 01:15:21.159 --> 01:15:25.600 know, the increasing unrest around the globe as many people thinking the end of 929 01:15:25.600 --> 01:15:28.960 the world is eminent, which means the Antichrist is getting ready to take the 930 01:15:28.960 --> 01:15:31.399 stage. But who will it be? The list? I won't give them 931 01:15:31.399 --> 01:15:36.279 all Oprah Winfrey. She can shift shifts shafe, I can't even say it, 932 01:15:36.279 --> 01:15:42.560 shape shifts sizes and seems to be ageless coincidence. And you like this 933 01:15:42.640 --> 01:15:46.680 when you geek, Steve Kathleen Kennedy, she has already overseen the destruction of 934 01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:51.119 the Star Wars galaxy. Ours will be next the guy with the leaf blow 935 01:15:51.199 --> 01:15:56.640 or two houses down Satan for sure, and then the next one. Steve, 936 01:15:57.720 --> 01:16:01.840 what were making that up the most like? No, I'm not, 937 01:16:01.880 --> 01:16:08.239 I'm really not, Steve Michaly, The most likely suspect is always the most 938 01:16:08.279 --> 01:16:12.800 obvious one. Oh, I saw that last week and I just didn't have 939 01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:15.640 time to send it to you. I my goodness, I am slaved here. 940 01:16:16.520 --> 01:16:19.760 Know I actually don't think of you as Antichrist, Steve, but I 941 01:16:19.800 --> 01:16:25.760 figured you'd get to shake out of knowing. Okay, well, I will 942 01:16:25.760 --> 01:16:29.800 do John's in my part together tonight. So we actually had my saying always 943 01:16:29.840 --> 01:16:34.279 drink your whiskey, need let's go Brandon and quoting Joe Biden, God save 944 01:16:34.359 --> 01:16:42.479 the Queen man. That's it. Yeah, it was great to see you. 945 01:16:42.680 --> 01:16:45.920 Great to have you with us. Great. It was just great to 946 01:16:45.960 --> 01:17:38.159 be with you, to see you again. Ricochet join the conversation,