WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:04.519 Hello, and welcome to my podcast. This is an audio version of my 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:09.160 videos available to make listening to my stuff in the background easier than YouTube makes 3 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:13.679 it, but since my videos are primarily made for YouTube, there may be 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.160 occasional references to visual materials. If you'd like this podcast ad free, you 5 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:22.760 can join us on Patreon at patreon dot com slash Vice Rhino. Please enjoy. 6 00:00:23.800 --> 00:00:29.079 Hello and welcome to my channel Vice Rhino. Here today we're looking at 7 00:00:29.079 --> 00:00:33.119 a video where Wes Huff of Apologetics Canada is being interviewed about whether or not 8 00:00:33.159 --> 00:00:37.240 the Bible has been corrupted over time, which is really one of those questions 9 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:41.159 that I don't understand why it's still being asked so frequently. I mean, 10 00:00:41.399 --> 00:00:45.320 I guess I know why people who believe that the Bible is the inerrent word 11 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:49.280 of God need to deal with the fact that the Bible has been corrupted without 12 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.600 admitting that. For as long as we've had enough documentation to figure it out, 13 00:00:52.799 --> 00:00:56.479 we've had a record of the Bible being corrupted. So we'll get to 14 00:00:56.520 --> 00:01:00.679 watch as they downplay the indisputable record that we have of scribes making mistakes, 15 00:01:00.719 --> 00:01:04.920 adding in new things and taking out old things in an attempt to salvage infallibility 16 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:10.599 in spite of the overwhelming evidence of fallibility. Anyway, there's only a couple 17 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:11.799 of weeks left on the sale at my merch store, so go to Merch 18 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.239 dot vice Rhino dot com and use code Rhino fifteen a checkout for fifteen percent 19 00:01:15.239 --> 00:01:26.079 off your order. Onto the video. The big objections I think in this 20 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:29.239 area is that some people might say, how you know that the Bible just 21 00:01:29.280 --> 00:01:34.079 hasn't been corrupted, so you're talking copies. There are Christian scribes of many, 22 00:01:34.120 --> 00:01:37.959 many, many generations, however, that the text of the Bible isn't 23 00:01:37.959 --> 00:01:42.560 just Chinese whispers, of its fine where it's slowly being changed to suit political 24 00:01:42.640 --> 00:01:48.799 and theological agendas. First to address what is likely the elephant in the room 25 00:01:48.799 --> 00:01:51.920 for a good chunk of my North American viewers in the UK, a lot 26 00:01:51.959 --> 00:01:55.799 of people call the telephone game Chinese whispers. I don't know why, and 27 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:59.959 apparently neither do they. Aside from some speculation about the inaccuracy of verbal meth 28 00:02:00.200 --> 00:02:02.319 has passed on over the Great Wall of China, but given that it seems 29 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:06.480 to have originated during the Cold War, a time when the UK had a 30 00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:09.759 bit of an issue with espionage from the USSR and China. It seems more 31 00:02:09.840 --> 00:02:15.319 likely that it originated out of general xenophobia, but that doesn't really matter. 32 00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:17.759 I just thought it would be weird to let it go completely unaddressed. Back 33 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:21.879 on topic, how do we know that the Bible was not subject to the 34 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:27.039 telephone game? Well, in short, we actually know the exact opposite. 35 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.400 It most definitely was changed as it was passed on from scribe describe, from 36 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:35.840 congregation to congregation, from country to country. And we know this because for 37 00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:39.400 an ancient book, we actually do have a pretty good manuscript tradition, so 38 00:02:39.479 --> 00:02:45.319 we can be fairly confident that the Bible we have today has been reasonably faithfully 39 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.319 pieced together to match what the originals likely said. But it is completely undeniable 40 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:53.000 that it has changed. It's just a question of what changes were made and 41 00:02:53.199 --> 00:02:57.319 how many of them were there in the mess of manuscripts that you're describing. 42 00:02:57.719 --> 00:03:00.439 What's your sense as to how you'd respond to that? Is this problem for 43 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:04.280 Christianity? No, it's not. It depends which brand of Christianity we're talking 44 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:07.240 about. Wes happens to believe in biblical inerrancy. So while I have no 45 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:12.240 doubt that he has some convoluted way that he accounts for the known errors in 46 00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:15.759 his inerrant book. The fact of the matter is that the errors of the 47 00:03:15.800 --> 00:03:21.240 Bible are well documented and so are a problem for inerrancy. Pretty much by 48 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.759 definition, that's the end of discussion, right, No, that is not 49 00:03:23.879 --> 00:03:28.000 the end of the discussion. I know he's being tongue in cheek here, 50 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.280 but really, if the Bible were actually inerrant, that should be the end 51 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:36.879 of the discussion. The fact that you have to explain away the errors that 52 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:42.360 are impossible to ignore demonstrates that the Bible is not inerrant. Among apologists that 53 00:03:42.360 --> 00:03:46.159 I've encountered who believe in the inerrancy of the Bible but still acknowledge that there 54 00:03:46.199 --> 00:03:50.520 are errors in the manuscripts, the typical way to reconcile this is to appeal 55 00:03:50.560 --> 00:03:53.919 to the originals. The originals are inerrant, but then fallible humans got their 56 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:59.360 hands on them and copied them down, sometimes making mistakes, sometimes outright inventing 57 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:03.240 passages to their theological agendas, sometimes deleting passages to suit their theological agendas. 58 00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.439 But none of that matters. It's the originals that are an errant. You 59 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:11.000 know, those documents that we don't have access to and so can't examine to 60 00:04:11.120 --> 00:04:15.319 confirm that they are an errant. How convenient, But this doesn't even come 61 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.560 close to solving the problem for starters. Why are the bits that we know 62 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:24.040 we're later insertions still included in modern Bibles? If it was the originals that 63 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:28.639 were in errant and not the later copies, did God reinspire a later scribe 64 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:32.079 deciding that his perfect word needed an update in that particular moment? If so, 65 00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.519 why was it good enough for the first generation of Christians but not the 66 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:41.199 later Christians? And when was the cutoff point? When did God stop inspiring 67 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.120 updates? And another thing that you keep hearing about biblical inerrancy is that it's 68 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.360 not only that it's inerrant, it's that it is unchanging. Except we know 69 00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:54.639 that it did change several times. When did those changes stop? Well? 70 00:04:54.879 --> 00:04:58.600 An example I've used in the past is the NIV translation inserting words into the 71 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:01.399 text that fix some of the apparent errors, with those changes being removed in 72 00:05:01.439 --> 00:05:04.920 the twenty eleven version. So we know that as recently as two thousand and 73 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:11.759 eleven, God's unchanging word was changing, But why were those changes wrong? 74 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:15.439 Could the NIV translators not have been inspired by God to fix Jesus mustard seed, 75 00:05:15.480 --> 00:05:19.199 gaff and Holy Hell. I should have come across this earlier. But 76 00:05:19.319 --> 00:05:26.079 there's a whole ass movement of Christians who opposed the two eleven NIV because basically 77 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.480 it's two woke. It made thousands of changes to the nineteen eighty four version 78 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:33.560 in order to use gender neutral language, like referring to Levitical priests in the 79 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:38.079 Old Testament, when the more accurate translation would be the priests of the Sons 80 00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:42.399 of Levi. So the two eleven NIV changed some verses to be more accurate 81 00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:46.600 to the manuscripts, like removing your from Matthew thirteen thirty two, but then 82 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.199 turned around and changed thousands of others to be less accurate to the manuscripts. 83 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:54.279 And as far as I can tell, the people who are arguing against the 84 00:05:54.279 --> 00:05:59.439 two eleven NIV are still fine using the nineteen eighty four version with its apologetically 85 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:04.120 motivated inaccuracies. So were the translators who added your into Matthew thirteen thirty two 86 00:06:04.439 --> 00:06:10.319 inspired by God to do so? Then why did God not inspire the translators 87 00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:14.399 of other versions to do the same with theirs. And how about Jeremiah seven 88 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.240 twenty two. The NIV added the word just into that one, which completely 89 00:06:18.399 --> 00:06:21.959 changed its meaning. In the ESV, it is for in the day that 90 00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.920 I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to 91 00:06:25.959 --> 00:06:30.160 your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices. But in the NIV, 92 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:33.040 both the nineteen eighty four and the twenty eleven editions, it is for 93 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:36.360 when I brought your ancestors out of Egypt and spoke to them, I did 94 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:42.759 not just give them commands about burnt offerings and sacrifices. That one word just 95 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:47.959 is only found in the NIV and its offshoots no other translations, and it 96 00:06:48.000 --> 00:06:53.560 makes the verse mean pretty much the exact opposite of what it means without it 97 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:58.199 was that addition inspired by God? Was it not? How can we tell 98 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.680 which ones are and which ones aren't. And if modern translations are not inspired 99 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.000 by God, then again I'm left wondering where the cutoff point was where text 100 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:10.600 could be changed, and that change could have been inspired by God. Yeah, 101 00:07:10.720 --> 00:07:15.800 you know what, Biblical inerrancy becomes a ridiculous proposition if you actually take 102 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.879 it seriously. You refer to Chinese whispers, or it's sometimes called the telephone 103 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:25.000 game. That is a single line transmission. It's single in the sense that 104 00:07:25.079 --> 00:07:28.399 it's me whispering into your ear and then you whispering to someone else's ear. 105 00:07:28.480 --> 00:07:32.079 That's not true with copying process of the New Testament. It's not a single 106 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:36.759 line of transmission. It's multiple lines of transmission, and it's done by different 107 00:07:36.759 --> 00:07:42.480 authors writing in different locations to different audiences who are likewise in different to a 108 00:07:42.519 --> 00:07:46.319 graphable location, and then copyists and strides they copy that text and they're in 109 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:53.199 different locations, writing to different audiences or themselves in different locations. Yes and 110 00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:57.360 no, so yes, the authors of the New Testament did come from different 111 00:07:57.399 --> 00:08:00.839 regions, and we're writing letters to people who lived in different regions. But 112 00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.639 that doesn't actually give us multiple lines of transmission of the message itself, because 113 00:08:05.639 --> 00:08:09.839 we don't actually have the documents from all these different regions, not for several 114 00:08:09.879 --> 00:08:13.040 centuries at any rate. For the first three hundred years of Christianity's existence, 115 00:08:13.199 --> 00:08:18.360 we have a grand total of one hundred and twenty four New Testament manuscripts, 116 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:22.120 and every last one of them comes from Egypt. Now, admittedly this next 117 00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.680 bit is speculation on my part, but given that the religion would change as 118 00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.839 it spread geographically, as is well documented in the Bible itself. I mean, 119 00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.480 after all, most of Paul's epistles are him fighting tooth and nail against 120 00:08:33.519 --> 00:08:37.799 such changes, which serves to demonstrate that those changes were in fact happening. 121 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.480 But given that, it stands to reason that the church in Egypt would have 122 00:08:41.519 --> 00:08:46.639 been different from the churches in various other locations throughout the ancient world, and 123 00:08:46.759 --> 00:08:50.399 given that we have a well documented manuscript tradition showing that scribes would at least 124 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:54.399 sometimes feel free to alter the text to fit better with their theology, it's 125 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:58.960 all but guaranteed that a letter being copied in Egypt would have had different change 126 00:09:00.120 --> 00:09:03.919 is than one copied and say Corinth. And if an orthodoxy emerged where certain 127 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.919 beliefs and practices were elevated over others, and this orthodoxy, let's hypothetically say 128 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.559 it managed to become the official religion of the most powerful empire in the world 129 00:09:13.600 --> 00:09:18.240 for several centuries, and this orthodoxy has a history of going to great length 130 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.879 to suppress any doctrine that they deemed to be heretical, then it's not outside 131 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.080 the realm of plausibility that they would have destroyed any manuscripts that they deemed to 132 00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:31.279 be heretical, thus leaving us with just the one line of transmission from Egypt 133 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:35.919 that they actually approved of. And this destruction of materials would likely be both 134 00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.919 active and passive. Actively they destroyed manuscripts that they thought were heretical. Well, 135 00:09:39.960 --> 00:09:43.679 passively, they just don't copy those manuscripts, allowing the existing ones to 136 00:09:43.720 --> 00:09:48.480 be lost to the sands of time, all well overwhelming the archaeological record with 137 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:52.559 obsessive copying of the official Orthodox versions. Again, this is speculation on my 138 00:09:52.679 --> 00:09:56.679 part. We don't actually know what happened to those manuscripts, but such behavior 139 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:00.960 would definitely not have been out of the ordinary for the Roman Catholic Church, 140 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:05.399 and it does nicely explain why we've only ever found manuscripts from Egypt for the 141 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.440 first three centuries of Christianity. And so you almost have layers upon layers to 142 00:10:09.519 --> 00:10:13.879 the multifaceted aspect of the text. So it's not a single line of transmission, 143 00:10:13.879 --> 00:10:18.000 it's a multiple line of transmission injected with steroids. No, it's multiple 144 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:24.039 lines of transmission as filtered through a single bottleneck line of transmission in Egypt. 145 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:26.720 If you play the telephone game and have multiple parallel games going at the same 146 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:30.799 time, but before you get to the end, all of those parallel games 147 00:10:30.840 --> 00:10:35.240 have to go through one person who gets to unilaterally decide which of the parallel 148 00:10:35.279 --> 00:10:37.799 games they want to transmit, and may or may not transmit them faithfully. 149 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:43.120 Then you don't get to claim that the existence of the parallel games means that 150 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.039 whatever came out at the end must be accurate to the originals. When it 151 00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:50.480 came to scribes, they weren't asking for their qualifications, whether they had a 152 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:56.960 diploma from Pharisee University. They wanted you to be able to get a copy 153 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:01.279 of the text. And so this resulted in the spread of these Christian documents 154 00:11:01.480 --> 00:11:05.159 really far, really quickly. And yes, that resulted in things like scribal 155 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:11.480 errors and mistakes from handwriting. Yes, and this is a problem because, 156 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:15.639 as you said, we know that the text spread very far, very fast, 157 00:11:15.759 --> 00:11:18.240 but we don't have any of the far flung texts. We only have 158 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:22.720 the Egyptian ones. And as you yourself pointed out, the early scribes were 159 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:26.480 not trained, some weren't even literate, and we're just copying as best they 160 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:31.919 could, and this resulted in many many errors entering the text. And what's 161 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:37.200 more, the time period for which we have the fewest manuscripts is also the 162 00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:41.039 time period when most of the scribes would have been amateurs, making mistakes and 163 00:11:41.159 --> 00:11:46.600 altering the text. So ultimately we don't know what competing copies of the same 164 00:11:46.639 --> 00:11:48.720 text were floating around out in the world. We just know the ones that 165 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:54.559 survived. And we do know that early Christianity was quite diverse, and belief 166 00:11:54.759 --> 00:11:58.159 mostly from the writings of proto Orthodox Church fathers who were trying to counter the 167 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.559 claims made by the competing sects, with the books that they wrote to count 168 00:12:01.559 --> 00:12:05.279 to them often being our only source for their existence in the first place, 169 00:12:05.559 --> 00:12:09.559 as the competing Christian documents were either outright destroyed or just allowed to die a 170 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.799 death of neglect. But it also means that pretty early on, within a 171 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:20.200 couple of centuries, you have copies of the Gospels of Acts of the business 172 00:12:20.200 --> 00:12:24.279 of Paul and Peter and James and Jude in places all over North Africa, 173 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:28.440 throughout the Middle East, even into Asia and the British Aisle. That phrase 174 00:12:28.600 --> 00:12:31.039 in a couple of centuries is doing a lot of heavy lifting. And you've 175 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:35.200 got to assume that by couple he does not mean two, because it's not 176 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:39.440 for at least three centuries anyway. By in a couple of centuries he seems 177 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:43.279 to mean not until after the Roman Empire had officially become Christian. So yes, 178 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.440 you find Christian documents spread throughout the Christian Empire. What else would you 179 00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:54.600 expect. And so the accusation of the da Vinci Code one that they inserted 180 00:12:54.759 --> 00:12:58.480 the divinity of Christ into the Bible. I don't know of any atheists who 181 00:12:58.480 --> 00:13:01.720 take the da Vinci Code series sleep. The Book of John, at the 182 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.480 very least, is quite clear about the divinity of Jesus. Sure there are 183 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:07.799 books onto which his divinity was imposed, and even then it depends on what 184 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:11.639 you mean by divinity. But with all this in mind, it's still a 185 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:16.120 point of fact that it took a council organized by the Roman emperor to decide 186 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:20.440 once and for all that Jesus was in fact divine. I feel like that's 187 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:24.919 not the kind of thing that would be necessary if he actually were the nature 188 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.799 of how the text was spread out through und the ancient world is that no 189 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:33.320 one person or no one group could have controlled the text at any one point 190 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:35.960 in time. So I guess the fact that the vast, vast majority of 191 00:13:35.960 --> 00:13:41.960 manuscripts to ever exist were directly commissioned by the Roman Catholic Church doesn't matter, 192 00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:46.960 because I'm fairly certain that they had near universal control over which books got copied 193 00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:50.559 and which manuscripts to copy those books from, for somewhere around a thousand years. 194 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:54.600 Sure, occasionally someone would translate a Bible or a book of the Bible 195 00:13:54.679 --> 00:14:00.519 into a vernacular language, but the Catholic Church would actively seek out and destroy 196 00:14:00.679 --> 00:14:03.759 such translations in order to maintain control. If the Bible is written in a 197 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.399 language that requires you to be highly educated in order to understand it, then 198 00:14:07.519 --> 00:14:11.919 that puts a barrier to the common people reading it for themselves and coming to 199 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.039 their own conclusions. The common people must filter their understanding through their local priest, 200 00:14:16.240 --> 00:14:20.799 who has access to the approved official copy of the Bible from the Roman 201 00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.679 Catholic Church. It was like shrapnel. They were blown everywhere all over the 202 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:28.519 ancient world. The officially approved versions were blown everywhere all over the ancient world. 203 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:33.519 It's still more than a little suspicious that before the Roman Catholic Church became 204 00:14:33.559 --> 00:14:37.679 a thing. Only the Egyptian manuscripts seemed to have survived, despite the fact 205 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.399 that we know that these books were circulating far and wide at that time period. 206 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.919 In order for Constantine to have wanted to insert anything, he would have 207 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:48.080 had to go and dig up copies of, say, the Gospel of John, 208 00:14:48.159 --> 00:14:50.559 buried in the stands of Egypt, hundreds of years before he was even 209 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:52.840 born. Conversely, if he didn't want to insert things into the text, 210 00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:58.159 but just preferred one version of Christianity over another one, all he would have 211 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:01.919 had to do was declare that only the version of Christianity that he liked was 212 00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:05.639 the one that was allowed to persist, and then competing versions throughout the Empire 213 00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:11.279 would either be absorbed or eliminated, and competing texts could be destroyed or ignored. 214 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:15.440 I am not of the opinion that Constantine made any insertions to the text. 215 00:15:15.759 --> 00:15:18.240 In fact, my understanding is that Constantine, especially in his early days, 216 00:15:18.519 --> 00:15:22.879 was rather lackluster in his Christianity and didn't much care about the various denominational 217 00:15:22.919 --> 00:15:26.080 fights, calling the Council of Nicea mainly as a way to get them to 218 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:30.559 shut up about their disagreements and stop trying to get him to adjudicate them. 219 00:15:30.919 --> 00:15:35.200 And keep in mind, we're talking about fourth century stuff here with Constantine, 220 00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:39.960 meaning that the time we start to actually see ancient manuscripts coming from regions outside 221 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:45.200 of Egypt corresponds with the time that one sect of Christianity became politically dominant over 222 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.559 the other sects. So, yeah, I am not saying that Constantine dug 223 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.840 up a bunch of manuscripts, had them edited, and then reburied them, 224 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.799 as you seem to be implying in this argument. I'm saying that after Constantine 225 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.919 gave one sect of Christianity political power, they used that power to suppress competing 226 00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.879 sects of Christianity, and part of that suppression probably involved the destruction of competing 227 00:16:06.919 --> 00:16:11.360 manuscripts. It's not feasible and it's not probable. We know from the history 228 00:16:11.559 --> 00:16:15.039 of how the ex spread. We know what Christians were reading in the second 229 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.720 century, and in the third, and the four and in the fifth. 230 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.919 Yeah, actually we do know a lot of what they were reading. Then 231 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:25.679 there was the Signs Gospel, the Gospel of Thomas, the Apocalypse of Adam, 232 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:29.559 the Egerton Gospel, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Sophia of Jesus Christ. 233 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:32.720 The Oh wait, none of those are books that made it into the 234 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:37.120 Bible, are they? They are all apocryphal, and yet some of these 235 00:16:37.159 --> 00:16:41.200 books potentially predate the canonical Gospels. We know that there was a great diversity 236 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.080 of Christian belief that predated the Roman Catholic Church, and we know that these 237 00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:48.879 competing sects died out, many of them in the wake of Christianity gaining its 238 00:16:48.879 --> 00:16:52.080 power in Rome. These other sects would have viewed the books that we call 239 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:57.240 apocryphal as God inspired scripture, and we know for a fact that many of 240 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:02.360 them were suppressed and wiped out by the Roman Catholic Church. For some of 241 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.759 the apocryphal books, the only knowledge we have of them comes either from orthodox 242 00:17:06.799 --> 00:17:11.319 and proto Orthodox church leaders writing counter apologetics against them, or from locations where 243 00:17:11.319 --> 00:17:15.200 the books apparently were hidden and buried for safekeeping in what appears to be an 244 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:19.920 attempt to preserve them from their impending destruction. This whole argument completely ignores the 245 00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:25.440 fact that we know that the Church actively suppressed any document that it considered to 246 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.960 be heretical, So why would they not do the same from manuscripts of canonical 247 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:33.200 Gospels that had variations that they also considered heretical, not just in Greek and 248 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:37.960 Hebrew, but in Latin and in Coptic and an old Church Slavonic, and 249 00:17:38.039 --> 00:17:41.680 it's a Hitic, Boheric, you know, you name the language. If 250 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:45.640 it was an agent world, the Christians were trying to translate it into Yes, 251 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.480 that is correct and fun. Little fact about that. The Latin text 252 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:52.759 that was used by the Church well into the twelfth century was one called the 253 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:56.200 Vestus Latina. But a guy named Jerome translated his own version of the text 254 00:17:56.200 --> 00:18:00.079 into Latin in the fourth century, and when the churches in North Africa heard 255 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:04.839 that version read aloud, there were literal riots and protests in the churches because 256 00:18:04.839 --> 00:18:08.680 of how different it was from the Vestus Latina. And that version that was 257 00:18:08.759 --> 00:18:14.240 so different from the previous one that it literally caused riots is now known as 258 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:18.160 the Latin Vulgate and has been the official Latin version of the text since the 259 00:18:18.279 --> 00:18:22.119 ninth century, when Charlemagne sought to standardize the texts. Yes, I am 260 00:18:22.160 --> 00:18:25.359 aware that I just said that the Vestus Latina was used into the twelfth century, 261 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:29.160 which is later than the ninth century. But it turns out standardization of 262 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.160 texts wasn't all that easy in a time when it could take months or even 263 00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:36.079 years to travel across Europe. And also, Charlemagne wasn't the pope, so 264 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:40.880 while he did have considerable influence over several church reforms, he was not completely 265 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:45.359 successful. My point is that the official Latin Bible that is still used by 266 00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:49.359 the Catholic Church today was such a drastic change from the previous version that it 267 00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:53.200 caused riots. So to claim that changes were not being made to the text 268 00:18:53.279 --> 00:19:00.559 for theological or political reasons is at best naive, and with translated version it's 269 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:04.680 even easier to do. It's impossible to directly translate from one language into another 270 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:10.799 without there being at least some interpretation and ambiguity. Even the simplest concepts don't 271 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:15.240 translate cleanly. Ask any Canadian school child for whom French is not their first 272 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:18.440 language what the phrase je mapel means. They will likely say that it means 273 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.759 my name is when a direct word for word translation would be I am called. 274 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.559 But because we don't introduce ourselves in English with the phrase I am called, 275 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:32.039 the phrase gets mistranslated in order to better capture the actual meaning, rather 276 00:19:32.079 --> 00:19:34.960 than just directly translating the words. Well, what happens when there is doubt 277 00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:38.880 or ambiguity about the actual meaning of a phrase. In an ideal situation, 278 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:42.599 whoever is doing the translating chooses the meaning that they think fits the intentions of 279 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:47.759 the original author best, regardless of their personal beliefs on the matter. In 280 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:51.720 reality, though, they are likely to have chosen the interpretation that fits best 281 00:19:51.759 --> 00:19:56.000 with their theological beliefs. Also, it is again worth mentioning that we don't 282 00:19:56.039 --> 00:19:59.759 actually have any of the non Egyptian manuscripts from any of these translations from the 283 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.880 first three hundred years of Christianity's existence, so it's not like we can just 284 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:07.000 use them to compare with the manuscripts that we do have to see what changes 285 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:11.519 might have made in different regions. That history is just so badanced. Even 286 00:20:11.680 --> 00:20:15.880 under Roman persecution, the Christian message was just spread far and wide. It 287 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:19.200 bears mentioning at this point that, well, there were sporadic bouts of localized 288 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:22.759 Christian persecution in the Roman Empire, such as neuroblaming the Christians for the Fire 289 00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:27.480 of Roman sixty four CE, there were no empire wide persecutions of the Christians 290 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:32.920 until three hundred and three CE, and that lasted until three hundred eleven CE, 291 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.359 for a grand total of eight years. Now, don't get me wrong, 292 00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:38.799 I'm not trying to minimize the suffering of early Christians who were persecuted, 293 00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.000 nor am I defending the act of persecution. I merely point this out because 294 00:20:44.039 --> 00:20:48.839 apologists like to imply, if not outright claim, that Christians suffered a systemic, 295 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:52.359 empire wide persecution for the first three hundred years of their existence, which 296 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.359 is just not the case, and any accusation of full scale corruption it would 297 00:20:57.359 --> 00:21:00.680 have been hard to do today, It was impossible to do that. Why 298 00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.200 Why would it be harder to accomplish something like that back in a time when 299 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:07.799 you wouldn't be called out for it immediately on social media and where there isn't 300 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:11.920 an electronic record of all the changes and revisions that you might make to a 301 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:15.119 digital text. I think that sort of thing is way harder to get away 302 00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.400 with today, especially since the widespread adoption of the Internet, than it would 303 00:21:18.400 --> 00:21:21.960 have been back then. And even then they didn't completely get away with it. 304 00:21:22.319 --> 00:21:25.440 They got away with it enough to maintain and expand their political power and 305 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:29.359 influence. But looking back on it, now we know that there were all 306 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.200 sorts of shenanigans going on, and that the Catholic Church was undeniably a corrupt 307 00:21:33.319 --> 00:21:37.759 organization that was bent on gaining and keeping as much power and control as they 308 00:21:37.799 --> 00:21:41.599 could. Why would you expect that the destruction of heretical documents would be off 309 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.440 the table when we know for a fact that they engaged in the destruction of 310 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:49.720 heretical documents. That's it for this one. Today's comment to the day comes 311 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:53.720 just from Jimmy James eight one sixty four, who says Amelek and his tribe 312 00:21:53.720 --> 00:21:56.799 were Nephelim. But I assume you don't know what that is either. If 313 00:21:56.839 --> 00:22:02.519 Nephelim were still here today, no would survive, study for yourself or remain 314 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:06.039 ignorant and continue to look like a fool. Yeah, you know what. 315 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:10.000 I've seen this claim before, and there's a few problems with it. First, 316 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:12.240 there is zero evidence to support the idea that there were a race of 317 00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:18.720 giants living back then, with the only evidence being mediocre photoshop jobs found in 318 00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:22.880 YouTube videos. Second, I have never found an adequate justification for believing that 319 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.960 the authors of the Bible thought that the Amalekites were Nephelim. They are mentioned 320 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.680 alongside each other once in numbers thirteen, where the Hebrew Spies give the report 321 00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:33.200 of who lived in the Promised Land, but they never called the Amalekites Nephelim. 322 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.240 They're just both groups of people who live in the land that they're about 323 00:22:37.240 --> 00:22:41.119 to conquer. Third Genesis six speaks rather positively about the Nephelim, saying the 324 00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.759 Nephelim were on the earth in those days and also afterward when the sons of 325 00:22:45.799 --> 00:22:48.559 God came into the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These 326 00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:52.400 were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown. Mighty 327 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.200 men of renown doesn't sound like a bad thing, and this makes it seem 328 00:22:56.240 --> 00:22:59.759 like they were a type of people who had died out before the flood. 329 00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:03.680 The Genesis sixth mention, even if we ignore the implied dying out of these 330 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:07.640 great men of renown, comes before the flood. So if the Nephelim were 331 00:23:07.759 --> 00:23:10.799 real, which to be clear, they were not, they would have died 332 00:23:10.839 --> 00:23:14.200 out in the flood. The fact that the Bible mentions them still existing after 333 00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:15.920 the flood is a bit of a problem for people who want to believe that 334 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.039 the flood was a literal global flood that killed everything on the planet except what 335 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:23.839 was on Noah's ark. I mean, the olive tree surviving the flood kind 336 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:27.400 of obviously quashes that view, But Young Earth creationists don't seem to have a 337 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:30.319 problem with that one for some reason. So why not the Nephelim? Two? 338 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.440 Sure it works, I mean it doesn't, but we'll go with it. 339 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:37.640 Fifth, If the ancient Hebrews were able to wipe out the Nephelim, 340 00:23:37.880 --> 00:23:41.279 then why do you think that the Nephelim would have successfully wiped out all of 341 00:23:41.359 --> 00:23:45.359 humanity? If a tribe with Bronze age weapons could do it, why would 342 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:51.039 future generations with better weapons have a problem. Sixth, the Amalekites were not 343 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.599 in fact wiped out, at least not if we believe the Bible, because 344 00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.319 King David had issues with them after he took over from Saul. Despite Saul 345 00:23:57.359 --> 00:24:02.799 apparently wiping them all out except for one dude. That dude must have gotten 346 00:24:02.799 --> 00:24:04.119 around quite a bit to build them back up and do a nation that was 347 00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:07.079 a legitimate threat to King David in just a couple of years. So, 348 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:12.039 if I grant your point, humanity should no longer exist, as the Amalekites 349 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:17.319 were never completely wiped out. Given that humanity continues to exist, I am 350 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:21.720 of the opinion that you are wrong, So Jimmy, feel free to study 351 00:24:21.759 --> 00:24:25.359 for yourself or remain ignorant and continue to look like a fool. Thanks for 352 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.359 watching. Don't forget to head to merch dot vice Rhino dot com and use 353 00:24:27.400 --> 00:24:30.880 code Rhino fifteen for fifteen percent off your order. I'll be back next Friday 354 00:24:30.880 --> 00:24:33.279 with more, but if you need to get your Rhino fix in before then. 355 00:24:33.319 --> 00:24:37.240 I live stream with service every Wednesday dight thirty Eastern on my other channel, 356 00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.240 The Watering Hole, and I stream with my partner every Tuesday at one 357 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:44.160 pm Eastern. Here thanks to Tim Robertson for being my Patreon and sponsorship's manager, 358 00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:48.200 and special thanks as always to my patrons, Scott Borringer alone on Mars 359 00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:52.400 and all the rest who are the well documented history that my channel has of 360 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:56.480 eliminating those who disagree with me. If you'd like to prove that I'm right 361 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:59.839 because I'm the only transmission line from the Telephone game, you can join us 362 00:24:59.839 --> 00:25:02.599 on Patreon for as little as a dollar per week over at patreon dot com. 363 00:25:02.599 --> 00:25:04.079 Slash Vice Rhino, or by supporting the channel and one of the other 364 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:07.759 methods that can be found at links doot Vice rhino dot com, which is 365 00:25:07.799 --> 00:25:10.720 also where you'll find links to other projects. If for whatever reason you want 366 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:12.640 to send me stuff, my PO box addresses in the description. See you 367 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:14.559 next time.