WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:13.359 This podcast contains intense subject matter. Listener discretion is advised. Right after the 2 00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:19.839 day after my mom disappeared, first dad took us out to his girlfriend's house 3 00:00:19.879 --> 00:00:22.760 in a sotan and we had lunch out there in a sotan and we were 4 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:27.199 hanging out with her, and then he took us to my mom's sister, 5 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:32.280 that would be my aunt Alice, and we stayed there for quite a while. 6 00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:37.799 So she disappeared all the thirty first and it's December when they're putting us 7 00:00:37.799 --> 00:00:43.840 to bed, and my sister's asking again, when's mommy coming home? You 8 00:00:43.920 --> 00:00:47.200 know, she's not coming back. I watched, I said, in my 9 00:00:47.240 --> 00:00:50.600 own words, which is in the police report, Daddy hit mommy, and 10 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:55.439 then mommy had daddy, and then daddy carried her out. But my sister 11 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:59.799 was so dead set on that's not what happened that she's saying, that's not 12 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:03.840 what happened, not what happened. Daddy wouldn't hear her, Daddy wouldn't hit 13 00:01:03.879 --> 00:01:11.439 her, It's not what happened. But she wanted to believe that. Why 14 00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:14.159 would any child want to believe that your father would do that to your mother, 15 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:18.439 you know? And so the memory just kind of goes away of like 16 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.519 it didn't happen. That's not what happened. That can't be what happened. 17 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:26.920 She just is coming back, So I had to just been another one of 18 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:30.480 those bad dreams that I had. But what three year old dreams about their 19 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:36.760 mother being carried out by their neck? You don't. He specifically said did 20 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:38.840 he carry her out? But I didn't know what that meant. It's that 21 00:01:40.000 --> 00:01:42.319 I didn't. I couldn't say he was choking her because I didn't even know 22 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:46.359 a word for that. But in my mind, what I saw was I 23 00:01:46.400 --> 00:01:49.280 thought he helped carry her is what I would have described it as being. 24 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:55.079 I thought he was helping carry her. As an adult, you realize you 25 00:01:55.120 --> 00:01:59.879 couldn't carry someone that way, And didn't you at one point say something about 26 00:01:59.879 --> 00:02:01.519 it? Daddy helped him? Mommy high? Yeah, he helped her, 27 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:06.079 helped her hide, he helped hear hit her, and I said, hid 28 00:02:06.079 --> 00:02:08.639 by not hit, but he hit her, And I wondered, did he 29 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:13.800 see me through the bars? You know? Did I? When I realized 30 00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:16.000 what I saw, did I just go right back downstairs because my head peeked 31 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.879 up just over the ledge to peek out to see what was happening, and 32 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:25.199 then I remember being with Natalie saying I'm scared, and her just comforting me 33 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:29.439 of you know, they'll they'll stop, and you just go to sleep, 34 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:32.199 and she'd rub my back and say, they'll they'll stop, they'll stop. 35 00:02:51.080 --> 00:03:04.599 From the pages of the reporter's notebook, this is still season two. I'm 36 00:03:04.599 --> 00:03:44.319 your host, Gary Anderson. We received information that there was a secret room 37 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:47.879 that was in the basement of ralph ottos and I had requested from him to 38 00:03:47.919 --> 00:03:53.879 show me this room in the southwest corner of the basement, behind the bunk 39 00:03:53.960 --> 00:04:04.759 beds of the two children. It was September seventh, less than a week 40 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:13.960 after Patty had vanished. During that first week, Lewiston Police detective Tom Selene 41 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:17.120 learned that Ralph had concealed the entry to a small room in his home, 42 00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:25.600 which was accessible only through the basement. When Ralph led Selene to the southwest 43 00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:30.160 corner of the basement that day, Selene saw that Dallas and Natalie's bunk beds 44 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:38.279 were nestled against the wall. That's where the girls had been trying to sleep 45 00:04:38.439 --> 00:04:46.000 while Ralph and Patty fought upstairs. In order to show Selene the secret room. 46 00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.519 Ralph had to push the bunk beds out of the way, remove four 47 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:54.439 screws, and pull the paneling away from the wall to reveal an opening into 48 00:04:54.439 --> 00:04:59.839 the cramped space. Inside the room, There was no sign that Patty's body 49 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:05.879 had ever been stashed there, but detective Selene did see two marine jetpumps, 50 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:12.519 which seemed oddly out of place. Nothing else was in the room but a 51 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:18.240 water heater. The floor was made of dirt. Selene later asked around and 52 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:25.040 learned that the jet pumps had been stolen from a local boat dealer. He 53 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:30.040 obtained a search warrant to retrieve and return the pumps to the dealership. The 54 00:05:30.120 --> 00:05:34.600 county prosecutor, however, declined to pursue a warrant to search the rest of 55 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:42.920 Ralph's property for Patty's body. In a letter to Selene, the prosecutor said 56 00:05:43.040 --> 00:05:47.720 two doctors had told him that Ralph's apparent confessions could be mere hallucinations and were 57 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:55.959 inadequate to justify a warrant. The prosecutor was worried that if the case went 58 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:06.199 to trial, anything found during a search might be ruled it admits Ralph had 59 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:12.560 already let detectives walk around his property and had even shown Selene the hidden room. 60 00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:15.560 On the same day, the cops saw a green canvas tarp stretched out 61 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:20.720 on the lawn. The tarp was wet when the cops examined it, and 62 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:26.639 Ralph told them that rufers working on the house next door had folded it up 63 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.120 and left it on his porch. He said that tarp had gotten wet when 64 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:33.399 it rained, so he opened it up and washed it off with a hose. 65 00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:40.600 Selene and the other detective looked the tarp over but didn't see anything on 66 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:44.240 it except for a few splotches of red paint, which matched the color of 67 00:06:44.279 --> 00:06:49.560 a fence in the yard. It's worth noting here that Patty's sister Alice went 68 00:06:49.639 --> 00:06:56.240 to Ralph's house on September second to get close for Natalie and Dallas. While 69 00:06:56.240 --> 00:06:59.879 Alice was at the house, she saw the tarp laying in the backyard. 70 00:07:00.000 --> 00:07:05.879 She also saw a shovel leaning against the house by the front door. Police 71 00:07:05.879 --> 00:07:10.040 thought that the combination of a tarp and a shovel at the house of a 72 00:07:10.079 --> 00:07:15.519 missing woman certainly seemed suspicious. In a later interview at the police station, 73 00:07:15.879 --> 00:07:21.240 Ralph explained that anyone who does contract work for the forest service carries an axe, 74 00:07:21.439 --> 00:07:26.399 a bucket, and a shovel in his truck, but he said he 75 00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:31.519 didn't remember why the shovel had been taken out of his truck. Ralph's mentioned 76 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.800 of carrying a bucket in his truck made us think of another story we heard 77 00:07:35.879 --> 00:07:42.720 from one of Ralph's friends. This is Ron Roady, who babysat the Auto 78 00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:48.199 Girls not long before Patty disappeared. I didn't really know she was missing. 79 00:07:48.279 --> 00:07:53.720 I mean I was still hanging around because I never saw Paddy. I'd come 80 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:58.040 to the house and Ralph would be outwork, and I mean once, very 81 00:07:58.120 --> 00:08:01.800 rarely Patty came out of the house, so I never saw her. So 82 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:05.759 I think she was missing for a little while before I even knew it. 83 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:13.879 But right about the time she disappeared, they had a Sharebroley station wagon and 84 00:08:15.120 --> 00:08:18.360 Ralph I don't even know why he told me or how he told me that 85 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.480 he had been out that night in the middle of the night. They were 86 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:28.120 building the new Lewiston Hill at the time. The Lewiston Hill is an escarpment 87 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:33.919 just north of town. The steep portion of US Highway ninety five that climbs 88 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:39.360 the hill was under construction when Patty vanished. The southbound lanes descending into Lewiston 89 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:45.039 from the crest of the hill have three runaway truck ramps over the span of 90 00:08:45.159 --> 00:08:50.639 just a few miles, and he had gotten that station wagon stuck at the 91 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:56.600 top of one of the runaway truck ramps in the gravel, and he brought 92 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:01.600 a bucket of that gravel home with him. So I always kind of suspected 93 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:07.799 that that's where he putter boy. It's up in the deep gravel and mornaway 94 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:13.759 truck round, which would be a spot nobody would ever dig up. That 95 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:20.639 was always my suspicions. About two weeks after Patty vanished, a local pilot 96 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:24.919 gave Selene a ride over Ralph's home so he could get an aerial view. 97 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.200 He didn't spot anything out of the ordinary. With the help of city employees, 98 00:09:33.519 --> 00:09:39.039 Selene also inspected a large municipal water tank adjacent to the twenty ninth Street 99 00:09:39.080 --> 00:09:48.440 house. Again nothing. Ralph refused to let police conduct an intensive search of 100 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.720 his house and surrounding property. He said they had already had their chance when 101 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:58.360 they walk around his place on September seventh. If you recall from the last 102 00:09:58.440 --> 00:10:03.519 episode, Bonnie shop Bell told Selene that Ralph had called her in late December, 103 00:10:05.120 --> 00:10:09.600 and, while apparently hallucinating, he said Patty's body had been found on 104 00:10:09.679 --> 00:10:13.799 his property. He said that he killed Patty when she came at him with 105 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:18.840 a gun and he stabbed her. You need to know that. In that 106 00:10:18.039 --> 00:10:22.919 same interview with Selene, Bonnie said that if Ralph had killed Patty, she 107 00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:28.759 thought it must have been the day after. Everyone believed because his behavior on 108 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:33.519 September two was distinctly different than September first, the day he took Bonnie shopping. 109 00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:41.120 She advised that Ralph did not seem to be himself and indicated to her 110 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:46.440 that he had been up all night. He said that Patty was gone and 111 00:10:46.519 --> 00:10:52.159 she will not be back shop. Bell indicated that Ralph had red eyes and 112 00:10:52.279 --> 00:10:56.120 was about to cry, and she tried to console him, advising that they 113 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:01.759 had had fights before. Ralph insisted she would not be back this time, 114 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:07.360 she advised. She gave Ralph a ride to her parents residence, and the 115 00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:11.519 mother indicated to her that Ralph appeared to be sick. This was the morning 116 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:16.759 of September second, when Ralph went to their house for breakfast, she advised 117 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:22.240 he started to eat but could not. She advised that her mother observed the 118 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:28.000 red eyes and tears and Ralph's eyes and heard Ralph say that Patty is gone 119 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:33.720 and she will not be back. After breakfast, Bonnie followed Ralph back to 120 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.639 his house before she drove away to California. At his house, Ralph tried 121 00:11:37.679 --> 00:11:43.840 to get Bonnie to come inside. She declined, and then he wrote her 122 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.159 out a check for one thousand dollars, and then she left shop. Bell 123 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:52.559 did make the remark that if anything happened to Patty, it had to have 124 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:56.519 been the night after they had gone to dinner. Between that time and the 125 00:11:56.559 --> 00:12:03.120 next morning, she advised, Ralph was really upset. She also said Ralph 126 00:12:03.240 --> 00:12:09.559 made the remark that he was surprised that the girls haven't given him away. 127 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:24.320 I guess I went back upstairs to go find out what was going on, 128 00:12:24.399 --> 00:12:28.279 or I wanted my mom. And as you walk up, the stairs goes 129 00:12:28.399 --> 00:12:33.360 up and then turns to the left. That's what green. I'm thinking it's 130 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:37.200 green carpet. It's like green low carpet. And I walk up the stairs 131 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:41.919 and I peek through the railing, which it's that wrought iron white railing, 132 00:12:41.000 --> 00:12:46.440 and I peeko the railing and they were fighting, and I saw them hit 133 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.840 each other like my dad hit her, and then she slapped him in the 134 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:54.440 face. And I thought he was helping her, because what I remembered was 135 00:12:54.919 --> 00:13:01.360 him helping her out. I didn't none understand what it would mean to carry 136 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.799 somebody by their neck, but I thought he was helping her carry her out. 137 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.159 In court for Ralph's murder for higher trial, Ray described his brother's behavior 138 00:13:13.240 --> 00:13:20.519 on the evening of September fifth, nineteen seventy six. That was the first 139 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:26.559 day Ray knew about Patty's disappearance. He had driven over to Ralph's house to 140 00:13:26.639 --> 00:13:33.879 check on him. Here's Christine reading exactly what Ray told the jury in court. 141 00:13:35.799 --> 00:13:39.120 When I arrived at the house that evening, it was about eight o'clock. 142 00:13:39.200 --> 00:13:43.320 I think it was starting to get dark. And when I got to 143 00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:48.759 the house, I rang the doorbell and there was no answer. I turned 144 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:54.639 around and started to leave, and Ralph approached around the corner. He was 145 00:13:54.679 --> 00:14:01.120 wearing insulated coveralls, barefooted, drunk, disarranged, and I asked him what 146 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:05.000 was going on, what he was doing, and he said he hurt his 147 00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:11.399 ankle. He stepped backwards and fell off of the retaining wall. His ankle 148 00:14:11.519 --> 00:14:20.519 was sprained and swollen. Ray went to the pharmacy and got a bandage to 149 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:26.000 rap Ralph's ankle. After that day, Ray and Dodi spent much of their 150 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:31.279 time caring for Ralph. During Ray's trial testimony, he said that he went 151 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:35.440 to Ralph's house in mid October to vacuum, tidy up, and empty the 152 00:14:35.480 --> 00:14:43.080 trash. He said that Ralph was so continually and severely intoxicated he was incapable 153 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.559 of caring for himself and was immersed in squalor. While cleaning up the place 154 00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:54.519 on October fifteenth, Ray hauled away bags of trash, including a number of 155 00:14:54.559 --> 00:15:00.159 empty whiskey bottles. Ray then returned to Ralph's place just twelve days later and 156 00:15:00.279 --> 00:15:05.000 found sixteen freshly emptied fifths of whiskey and at least another half dozen empty bottles 157 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:11.159 of vodka, gin and wine. Ralph seemed to be attempting to drink himself 158 00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:26.000 to death. Was it grief or guilt? We talked to Russ Mason in 159 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:31.320 the summer of twenty twenty one. He told us he had received a late 160 00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:37.480 night call from Ralph around the first of September nineteen seventy six, Ralph said 161 00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.639 he was in trouble and needed help. Russ told him he'd come by the 162 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:46.159 next day to help, but Ralph wasn't home when he went by the house. 163 00:15:46.759 --> 00:15:50.240 Russ said he thinks the phone call may have been the very night Patty 164 00:15:50.320 --> 00:15:56.399 disappeared. However, when police talked to Russ back then, he specifically recalled 165 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.159 that the phone call had happened at about one thirty am on a Sunday, 166 00:16:00.600 --> 00:16:04.480 not in the middle of the week. He said he recalled that it was 167 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:08.679 a Sunday because he and his wife had been out Saturday night and had recently 168 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:15.039 gotten home and had gone to bed when the phone rang. September first, 169 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.919 nineteen seventy six, was a Wednesday, so unless Russ was confusing the dates, 170 00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:25.120 the call didn't happen on the same night. Russ didn't want to be 171 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:29.919 recorded for the podcast, but he did tell us he believes that Ralph killed 172 00:16:29.960 --> 00:16:34.159 Patty. He said he believes another friend who has since passed away, could 173 00:16:34.159 --> 00:16:38.480 have helped Ralph that night. Out of fairness, we're not going to name 174 00:16:38.519 --> 00:16:44.639 that man. Russ also said he believes that Ralph could have hidden Patty on 175 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:51.000 his property in wee Ipe. Another friend of Ralph's, Marlon Callahan, also 176 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:56.279 told us he believes Ralph killed Patty. In fact, friend after friend told 177 00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:03.039 us the same thing. They had theories about where Ralph could have concealed Patty's 178 00:17:03.080 --> 00:17:10.480 remains. We'll get to more of those possibilities in a bit. First, 179 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.559 you should know that a few months before Ray passed away in nineteen ninety, 180 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:18.000 he wrote down some of his thoughts on the matter. In the note Ray 181 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:22.039 said, the night he drove Ralph to the mental institution in Rotheno, after 182 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.680 Ralph's infamous confession to Bonnie, he told Ray, quote, I just stuck 183 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:32.640 her with a knife in the stomach. She didn't say a word. In 184 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:37.640 that same note, Ray wrote quote not one but two of Ralph's friends got 185 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.720 calls on the night in question. He wrote, nothing was concrete with one 186 00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:47.839 call, but two different people same request. Is something else. If Ralph 187 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:51.039 couldn't get help, he had to do it himself. This might be why 188 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:56.920 there was a wet tarp on the lawn early September seventy six. The second 189 00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.039 friend Ray referred to in his note wasn't one of the friends we've already mentioned. 190 00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:07.319 It was yet another man. Ralph may have called for help. Still, 191 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.240 Ray wrote that only a small part of him believed Ralph could have been 192 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.400 capable of killing Patty. He said he was ninety percent convinced of his innocence, 193 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:21.279 and he attributed the trace of doubt to Ralph's dependence on alcohol and its 194 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:34.720 effect on his behavior. After Ralph went to prison for trying to have the 195 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:41.079 police captain killed, Patty's sister Alice and Ralph's sister Marcy fought in court for 196 00:18:41.200 --> 00:18:51.160 custody of Natalie and Dallas. Marcy one, but Patty's family also won visitation 197 00:18:51.279 --> 00:19:00.079 rights. A few years after getting custody, Marcy and her husband officially adopted 198 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:07.079 Natalie and Dallas. Before the adoption, Marcy told Dallas she would be getting 199 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:15.200 a new last name. Dallas asked for a new first name too, so 200 00:19:15.279 --> 00:19:17.279 if you want to change your name, now's the time to do it. 201 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:19.920 So she just let me pick my name, and I wanted to be Susanne 202 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:23.480 Ray. So nobody ever thought I was a little boy for one again, 203 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:29.160 and number two associated with all the craps that my father and my mother. 204 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:33.920 I mean, you should see these piles and titles of newspaper clippings always on 205 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:37.039 the front page of the newspaper, always some big, drawn out thing. 206 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:40.839 Why can't my dad just I can't he just tell us what happened and get 207 00:19:40.839 --> 00:20:08.839 this over with. Dallas is now known to those who love her as Suzanne 208 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:15.759 Timms. She's married, has kids and a nursing degree, and lives about 209 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.960 two hours from Lewiston. Despite her painful memories of that awful night, she 210 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:27.960 still wants to know more. She wants answers. Marcy, the woman Susanne 211 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:33.359 now calls mom, believes that Patty chose to leave her daughters and Ralph. 212 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:41.119 What do you think happen to Pattie? I think that as hard as what 213 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:49.160 it seems totally impossible, but that she thought that Ralph, and she's used 214 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:56.720 this phrase before, that it's your turn to take care of the girls now. 215 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:03.519 And I think once she got away and didn't see any way back, 216 00:21:03.720 --> 00:21:11.240 and as her parents got older and passed away, I think she would have 217 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:18.400 wanted to come back, because she did love her parents. On November seventeenth, 218 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:22.160 nineteen seventy six, the same day that Ralph was released on bond while 219 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:27.559 awaiting trial, a woman called the Lewiston newspaper and identified herself as Patty. 220 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:33.359 She said she wanted to get a message to her parents, Tom and Toots 221 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:38.119 O'Malley. The woman said she loves her parents and her daughters. She's safe 222 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:47.759 and she's staying with friends. Newspaper staff called police. Selene was naturally suspicious 223 00:21:47.839 --> 00:21:52.839 of the call and asked the newspaper employee who heard the caller's voice to listen 224 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:56.279 in as he called Ralph's family members to ask if they had placed that phone 225 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:03.480 call. Selene first called Ray and Dodie. The employee said Dodie did not 226 00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:10.640 sound like the female voice she heard. Selene then called Marcy. After listening 227 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:14.839 for just a brief time, the employee said Marcy's voice sounded a lot like 228 00:22:14.920 --> 00:22:18.960 the woman who had claimed to be Patty. She also said the background noise 229 00:22:19.000 --> 00:22:23.599 in the call to Marcy sounded like the long distance connection with the mysterious caller. 230 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:30.039 Marcy denied making that phone call, and she believes it really could have 231 00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:36.119 been Patty. She said that as time went on, the evidence that Patty 232 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:41.960 willingly left her family only increased, and something that people who came forward and 233 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:48.200 said, you know, when they saw her and everything, which was either 234 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:56.880 she went and stayed with somebody else, because she was seeing by people that 235 00:22:56.079 --> 00:23:00.279 lived down the street from him, and they all knew her well, and 236 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:07.319 she went for walks daily. She was always battling her weight. One woman 237 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:11.400 told police she saw a woman wearing red pants and a white shirt, which 238 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.839 matched the description of what Patty wore on August thirty first, walking more than 239 00:23:15.880 --> 00:23:18.920 a mile away from the auto home. The woman couldn't be sure of the 240 00:23:19.000 --> 00:23:25.400 exact day she saw her, though. Another couple came forward to say they're 241 00:23:25.440 --> 00:23:29.680 certain they saw Patty leaving her house with her hair in a mess on August 242 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:33.319 thirty first. The problem was the couple said they saw her that morning. 243 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:40.599 Patty didn't disappear until late that night. We asked Marcy if she ever wonders 244 00:23:40.640 --> 00:23:45.960 if maybe Ralph did do what just about everyone suspects to this day. As 245 00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:52.279 soon as I say that I doubt that he could do it. I believe 246 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.880 anyone can do anything when they are in a fit of rage. Here's tom 247 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:02.920 Selene. But I could tell you when I drove up there, I believe 248 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.759 a missing person was a missing person, then she would probably be found. 249 00:24:07.319 --> 00:24:12.039 That's what was going through my mind. And then it didn't take me long 250 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.359 to come to the opinion that that wasn't the case and that's something had been 251 00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:26.680 done with her. We followed up on thousands of leads, put posters out, 252 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:33.359 talk to people all over that would tell us they had sightings or this 253 00:24:33.599 --> 00:24:42.400 or that. An Absolutely nothing ever came together to support there's any credibility and 254 00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:52.559 those suggestions made to us on how to solve the case. Do you recall 255 00:24:52.680 --> 00:25:00.319 what first made you have an inkling that this wasn't just a missing persons case. 256 00:25:03.079 --> 00:25:08.720 I think it was a combination of things. Patty never came home, 257 00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:19.000 there was no contact with Patty. Tom O'Malley. Patty's father knew Ralph, 258 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:22.680 knew a lot more about him at that time than any of the rest of 259 00:25:22.759 --> 00:25:30.640 us did, and he was of the strong opinion that Ralph had done something 260 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:40.079 with his daughter. The other family members on the O'Malley side were of that 261 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:45.839 opinion as well. On Ralph's side, it was the total opposite that, 262 00:25:45.720 --> 00:25:52.640 in my opinion, they wanted to protect him and never were forthcoming with any 263 00:25:52.880 --> 00:26:00.759 anything other than she run off or took off and was gone. So, 264 00:26:02.279 --> 00:26:08.680 but that's typical of what we've seen in many cases we dealt with a lot 265 00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:15.160 of these type of people over a period of time and watched the family members 266 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:23.160 act and react in different ways, obviously and many times depending on that particular 267 00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:33.559 relationship with the defendant. Throughout Dodie's manuscript, she described Ralph as a mean 268 00:26:33.640 --> 00:26:40.000 drunk who mistreated everyone who loved him, especially her husband Ray. So we 269 00:26:40.000 --> 00:26:42.359 were kind of surprised by her response when we asked her what she thought of 270 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:48.119 Ralph. I liked Ralph. He was fun to be around. With that, 271 00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:51.920 you wouldn't trust him, you know, you never knew or knew what 272 00:26:51.960 --> 00:26:53.359 he was going to do. He's going to a start with a pair of 273 00:26:53.400 --> 00:26:56.799 boots, find some new ones, put the new ones on, put the 274 00:26:56.839 --> 00:27:00.160 old ones back up on the shelf, and walk out the door. I 275 00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:04.440 mean, just stuff like that. They're doing crazy. What'd he brag about 276 00:27:04.440 --> 00:27:07.920 it? About what he would do? What would he brag about what he 277 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.960 would do? Oh no, not necessarily. Okay, that was just him 278 00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:15.559 one the coat. He just go put on a coat and put the old 279 00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:18.759 one there and walk out the door. That's why we have all these old 280 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:26.279 things about our things when we shot down day. Yeah, So another thing 281 00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:33.240 that struck us was that Doughty included very specific details in her manuscript, details 282 00:27:33.279 --> 00:27:37.440 that didn't seem relevant to us, like what Ralph ordered to eat at a 283 00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:47.240 restaurant on a certain day and what song he played on the jukebox, But 284 00:27:47.720 --> 00:27:53.240 there were gaping holes in other places. For instance, after Ralph went to 285 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:57.240 prison for the murder for Higher Plot, Tom Selene went down to the state 286 00:27:57.279 --> 00:28:03.880 penitentiary in Boise to interview Ralph. It was nineteen seventy eight. At that 287 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:11.039 point, Patty had been missing for two years. Selene was reaching for any 288 00:28:11.079 --> 00:28:15.160 thread he could pull, trying to see if Ralph would confess, or maybe 289 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:19.200 let's slip a clue about where Patty could be buried. The interview lasted for 290 00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:26.960 nearly two hours. Dodie got a copy of the interview transcript and retyped the 291 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:33.039 entire forty seven page document word for word for her manuscript, except for two 292 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:41.680 pages. She summarized those two pages with a single sentence. Selene asked Ralph 293 00:28:41.839 --> 00:28:47.559 about his marriage to Joy. She omitted that in those two pages worth of 294 00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:52.720 conversation, Ralph described having an on again, off again affair with Dodie. 295 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:59.680 We want to be fair, Ralph could have been lying about the affair in 296 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:04.440 We're convinced he lied about a lot of things throughout the interview. He certainly 297 00:29:04.480 --> 00:29:10.759 wasn't a straight shooter. We asked Dodie about the omitted pages, and she 298 00:29:10.799 --> 00:29:14.960 said that leaving out the two pages of the transcript that pertained to her was 299 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:19.519 more dignified than denying falsehoods. She said Ralph was jealous of her husband and 300 00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:25.839 wanted him to suffer. That's why he said those things. But it does 301 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:30.160 beg the question if Ralph would boldly fabricate such a betrayal against his own brother, 302 00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.359 why would Dodie refuse to believe that Ralph may have murdered his wife? 303 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.519 But, like I say, it's so involved and you just have to take 304 00:29:38.559 --> 00:29:44.920 it piece by piece and go from there because it's just it's overwhelming all that. 305 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:49.039 Why do you think Ray was so willing to defend Ralph because he knew 306 00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:55.759 innocent, he knew would not do that. I want to let you in 307 00:29:55.839 --> 00:30:02.839 on a few key things Ralph said when Selene interviewed him in prison. First, 308 00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.440 he said, in knowing certain terms, that he doesn't believe Patty was 309 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:12.279 a prostitute. This is an actor dramatizing the exact words in the transcript. 310 00:30:14.599 --> 00:30:18.279 I know she did. I know, I don't. I don't think she's 311 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.559 a bad mother. That's one thing you would have pissed me off about that, 312 00:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.759 Damn Dolores, is the fact that she thinks Patty is somewhere but beings 313 00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:30.519 a prostitute. You see, that's all she's got in her head is attamp 314 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:37.839 prostitute somewhere at Patty ain't no prostitute. Ralph also said he did not kill 315 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:42.319 Patty, but he went on to say, but I think it would have 316 00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:45.559 been a bit of anger, you know, something that would piss me off 317 00:30:45.640 --> 00:30:51.079 bad and I had to be half whisk you up to do it. But 318 00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:56.759 I gad him me to kill somebody. Selene asked Ralph to tell him what 319 00:30:56.920 --> 00:31:02.519 really happened to night Patty vanished, Rap said, go my hands. Many 320 00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:06.200 times it seemed like a dream to me, like it was something that didn't 321 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:08.920 even really happen, that I saw a pictures show or something. But I 322 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:18.480 did. I don't think I could have killed her. Let's assume, for 323 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:22.680 the sake of argument, that Ralph did kill Patty, whether it was a 324 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:27.759 carefully executed plan or a tragic misstep in a fit of rage. How would 325 00:31:27.799 --> 00:31:33.559 someone who was perpetually drunk conceal the evidence so well? Surely he had to 326 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:40.279 have gotten help, right and if so, from whom and where did he 327 00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:47.680 hide her? On different occasions, Ralph had taunted people with ideas about where 328 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.359 he could have buried Patty if he had killed her. He mentioned throwing her 329 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:56.000 body in the river, burying her in a landfill, hiding her in a 330 00:31:56.079 --> 00:32:01.240 concrete dam that was under construction, or sinking her weighted down corpse in a 331 00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:08.680 deep pond with a silty floor. This is Ron Roady again. My parents 332 00:32:09.319 --> 00:32:14.880 then you were Alph and Patty real well. But they had lived out of 333 00:32:14.920 --> 00:32:21.039 town and they moved back into town and bought a house on Park Avenue, 334 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:25.680 and they lived there for a few years, and my mom did smoke gates 335 00:32:27.519 --> 00:32:30.640 that just carried. Right before my mom died. A couple of years ago, 336 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:36.319 the subject of Patty came up and I said, you know, I've 337 00:32:36.319 --> 00:32:39.559 always thought I knew where she was. And my mom just looked at me 338 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:45.039 and she said, I know where she is, And what are you talking 339 00:32:45.079 --> 00:32:49.240 about? What she told me? She said, you swear you would never 340 00:32:49.279 --> 00:32:52.640 say a word to anybody about this. Until after we were dead, after 341 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:55.519 rob a dead, and she proceeded to tell me that at that house on 342 00:32:55.599 --> 00:33:01.039 Park Avenue she was having my day, had dig some holes to plant some 343 00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:07.000 trees, and when he was digging, he dug up some bones, big 344 00:33:07.039 --> 00:33:13.799 bones that was like somebody buried. And they saw that and just immediately filled 345 00:33:13.799 --> 00:33:17.960 the holes back in and didn't say a word. But apparently this house was 346 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:22.160 owned by a good friend or Ralph's, one of his drinking buddies, who 347 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:28.440 had later committed suicide. So my mom had no doubt in her mind that 348 00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.119 that's who helped Ralph get rid of Patty, and that was where she was 349 00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:38.559 buried. That was her they had dug up. So let's recap where people 350 00:33:38.599 --> 00:33:45.279 who knew Ralph had theorized that Patty could be buried. We've now heard about 351 00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:49.440 that property on Park Avenue and the deep gravel of the runaway truck ramp on 352 00:33:49.480 --> 00:33:53.400 the Lewiston Hill, and a few people have mentioned Ralph's property in Wi. 353 00:33:55.319 --> 00:34:00.960 There's also Eve's property in Weip and the camper she was sieves from Ralph, 354 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:05.279 although it seems that if the camper was used, it was only temporarily. 355 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:09.159 Eve's grandson went inside the camper when he was growing up, and he didn't 356 00:34:09.159 --> 00:34:15.199 see anything strange inside. Police ruled out the water tank next to the auto 357 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.880 home in Lewiston, and the secret room in the basement held only some stolen 358 00:34:20.920 --> 00:34:27.079 marine jet pumps. In two thousand and nine, a cadaver dog sniffed all 359 00:34:27.119 --> 00:34:31.400 around Ralph's Lewiston property but didn't give an alert that human remains might be buried 360 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:37.719 there. We've also heard people mentioned she could have been taken to a nearby 361 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.280 rock quarry with a limepool, or the island Ralph once owned on the Clearwater 362 00:34:42.400 --> 00:35:00.800 River. And of course we know that Ralph owned heavy equipment, including a 363 00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:09.360 dump truck, and he was familiar with remote mountain roads because he had done 364 00:35:09.400 --> 00:35:22.679 work for the Forest Service clearing roads of mudslides. Which brings us to the 365 00:35:22.800 --> 00:35:30.360 Jane Doe who was found in nineteen seventy eight in a remote area of Oregon. 366 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:47.039 Next time on still this is my mother, but nobody's gonna believe me 367 00:35:49.199 --> 00:36:02.800 because it sounds too crazy. Anyone with information pertaining to the disappearance of Patricia 368 00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:08.519 Otto should contact the Lewiston Police Department's tipline at two zero eight two nine eight 369 00:36:08.760 --> 00:36:15.559 three nine three nine. Anyone with information pertaining to the identity of the Finlay 370 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:20.800 Creek Jane Doe or other information related to that case should contact the Union County 371 00:36:20.800 --> 00:36:27.519 District Attorney at DA at Union hyphen County dot org. If you, or 372 00:36:27.559 --> 00:36:31.400 anyone you know is a victim of domestic abuse, please contact the National Domestic 373 00:36:31.480 --> 00:36:39.800 Violence Hotline at eight hundred seven nine nine. Safe. STILL is a production 374 00:36:39.840 --> 00:36:46.679 of The Reporter's Notebook and Grayson Shaw Media. You can connect with us online 375 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:53.039 at The Reporter's Notebook dot com or via email at info at the Reporter's Notebook 376 00:36:53.079 --> 00:37:00.719 dot com. Still was researched, written and produced by Karen Shaw Anderson. 377 00:37:01.079 --> 00:37:08.000 Additional research and script editing provided by Christine Hughes. Original music by Smith Uosso, 378 00:37:09.159 --> 00:37:15.480 Additional narration provided by b. J. Blackburn and Lloyd Turning. I'm 379 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:22.280 your host and associate producer Gary Anderson. Special thanks to everyone who graciously provided 380 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:27.760 interviews and help with our research. We would specifically like to thank the advocates 381 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:34.280 for Patricia Otto and the Finlay Creek Jan Dooe Task Force. Like Follow and 382 00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:39.360 subscribe to STILL on your favorite podcast platform, and follow us on Facebook or 383 00:37:39.400 --> 00:37:49.360 Twitter to join the Conversation Ezekiel thirty four sixteen. I will seek the lost, 384 00:37:49.599 --> 00:37:52.679 and I will bring back the stray, and I will bind up the 385 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:54.079 injured, and I will strengthen the week.