WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:07.519 Not five miles an hour. Riding to his head, he hopping down first 2 00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:14.199 with the lumpbonius face, and on the very next pitch he up and stole 3 00:00:14.599 --> 00:00:28.039 second face with greatst be he wasn't born. He had the yes uniform. 4 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:33.600 Welcome to episode twenty of the Prospect B Sides Podcast. I am Nate Handy 5 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:38.600 and joining me as always tonight is Matthias von Rooker. And then we have 6 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:44.799 We're very happy to have a special guest Chris Clegg of the Dynasty Dugout Fellas. 7 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:47.280 How are we tonight? I'm doing good. I feel like I need 8 00:00:47.320 --> 00:00:50.359 a nickname to go with with you guys. I could be the I guess 9 00:00:50.359 --> 00:00:53.600 be technically the rookie today, right, I'm the rookie of the show. 10 00:00:53.679 --> 00:01:00.039 So my little league nickname was Chaos. They called they called me chaos because 11 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.920 I would said I call Chaos on the base paths. But I never I 12 00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:07.959 like that. That's good. Yeah, I like to keep Nan on his 13 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:11.640 toes with my change up to nickname every day. I like it. But 14 00:01:11.680 --> 00:01:15.799 hey, Chris man, thank you for joining us. Honored. I know 15 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:19.319 you busy man. It's late on the East coast. I just I appreciate 16 00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:23.680 that dude. Yeah. No, I appreciate you guys having me for sure, 17 00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:26.359 and uh, I've got my second wave of energy, so we'll see 18 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.560 how late we make it. I know you guys record long, long episodes, 19 00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:33.319 which is awesome, but um, definitely. I gotta say, Chris, 20 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:37.239 you look a lot better than I thought you might. I was the 21 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:41.239 amount of work and things that you've been putting time into this offseason. I 22 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.079 I kind of envisioned you on this screen here looking more like like like Saddam 23 00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.159 Hussein coming out of the out of the hole. But you're in good shape, 24 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.079 man. We're making it out of the winter man, and we're almost 25 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:57.799 there. It's you have been, like just from someone who has done some 26 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:00.239 writing and done some lists and stuff that like, you have just been an 27 00:02:00.239 --> 00:02:06.920 absolute animal this offseason. How many organizational top prospect lists did you write? 28 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.759 I did twenty six to the thirty you handled insane, dude, that is 29 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:15.560 insane. I think I helped out and try and then it two for you, 30 00:02:15.719 --> 00:02:20.840 and I almost lost my mind doing two. I passed off the Orioles 31 00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.919 to someone I trust with it, and the Cardinals somebody I trust with it. 32 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.000 So those are handled. The rest of them. Kudos, kudos to 33 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.639 you, my friend. That's uh, that's impressive. Much respect for that. 34 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:34.120 Yeah. I still feel like it wasn't enough though, because like some 35 00:02:34.159 --> 00:02:37.000 of works, I only wrote like twenty players up just to I love it. 36 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:39.639 See see Clig, that's why you belong here. Man. You you 37 00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:44.560 have gone through a lot of mutters this offseason. You you are one, 38 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:47.000 You are one of us. And he feels like he hasn't done enough. 39 00:02:47.199 --> 00:02:52.719 You just put out a top one thousand prospects list and he still hasn't gone 40 00:02:52.719 --> 00:02:54.960 deep enough. I love it. I love it. Clinton. I've almost 41 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:58.759 finished off the top one thousand dynasty, which is a little easier because I 42 00:02:58.759 --> 00:03:00.319 have all the prospects already done. So it's like, yeah, at some 43 00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:04.240 point, it's like, ah, this MLB crop is terrible. So like 44 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:09.479 I'm just gonna I hope they'll be better. I'm gonna, I'm gonna. 45 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:14.599 We're probably gonna ask you some questions about that Top one thousand and your process 46 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.120 there at some point here. But I wanted to touch on last week, 47 00:03:17.319 --> 00:03:22.159 Chris. I don't know if you listened, not offended, if you didn't 48 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:27.919 last week's I apologize. What we did was we kind of piggybacked some questions 49 00:03:27.960 --> 00:03:34.199 that we had from episode prior and some conversation in your Wonderful Dynasty dugout discord, 50 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.520 you know, how can you recommend a prospect might be a better bet 51 00:03:38.560 --> 00:03:42.560 than a top one hundred prospect? Right, So we kind of long answered 52 00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:46.199 that, and we set up some hypothetical trades that we might do that might 53 00:03:46.280 --> 00:03:52.319 sort of buck consensus thought right, And part of that I did use your 54 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.120 ranking for some of these guys. So maybe even before we get into that, 55 00:03:57.159 --> 00:04:00.039 like you make some lists and I know how this goes, then you 56 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:03.080 know part of it is then you get some people who are like, hey, 57 00:04:03.159 --> 00:04:06.000 how could you do this? How could you not value this guy enough? 58 00:04:06.039 --> 00:04:09.360 For this guy too much? And all that stuff? And then on 59 00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:14.199 top of that you get some ask clowns like us who actually have a podcast 60 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:17.439 and get all critical. Right, So I don't know, Like Chris, 61 00:04:17.480 --> 00:04:23.839 you take that stuff very well, and I hope that you understand that when 62 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:29.000 I do stuff like that, I am not questioning your reasons. We talked 63 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:32.519 about having reasons why you come to certain conclusions. I very much agree with 64 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.360 you much more than I disagree, But for me and I think Matt would 65 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:42.000 agree as well, like you learn way more when you disagree. I've learned 66 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.360 a lot from you about players that I have very different opinions on. I 67 00:04:45.399 --> 00:04:47.720 haven't learned as much from you about players that we have the same opinion on, 68 00:04:48.079 --> 00:04:51.800 and I value that. A friend of mine, Steve, once told 69 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:56.680 me, you know this, people get like a little bit heated about someone 70 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.399 going against their opinion and stuff, but like this is quote the the version 71 00:05:00.439 --> 00:05:04.560 of arguing about like what your favorite dinosaur is. Like there's a lot of 72 00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:09.480 different opinions, right, I mean right, wrong? What have you? 73 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:15.600 In the day Dynasty baseball, I very much can respect and disagree with opinions. 74 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:16.759 So thank you, yeah, thank you. Yeah. Well, no, 75 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:20.480 I think that I think that's a good point because I think that being 76 00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:25.959 able to explain why you believe something about a player is important. Like a 77 00:05:25.959 --> 00:05:29.720 lot of people can look on fangrafts and say, oh, he hit two 78 00:05:29.800 --> 00:05:31.800 eighty seven or something, hit twenty two home runs, but like, there's 79 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.399 so much more to every prospect than that. So I think that being able 80 00:05:35.439 --> 00:05:42.920 to explain like the reasoning behind and in doing so that allows you to learn. 81 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.600 I would say so when people question or when people ask you a question, 82 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.920 like, there's obviously players that we're not going to be familiar about, 83 00:05:49.959 --> 00:05:54.680 Like we're we're pretty deep, deeply versed in the prospect world, but there's 84 00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.839 still players out there that you know, you may not know. And so 85 00:05:58.079 --> 00:06:01.199 this instance happened to like with me earlier in the twenty twenty three season, 86 00:06:01.439 --> 00:06:04.720 and it was with Jefferson Rojas, who I've really grown to love, and 87 00:06:04.759 --> 00:06:08.560 somebody asked me about Rojas, and I was like, to be frank, 88 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.480 like, I have no clue like anything about Rojas, and so I really 89 00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:15.600 dug in a little bit. He's spent a game at the complex and was 90 00:06:15.639 --> 00:06:17.680 gone, and so he's been in single A, so I was able to 91 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:23.240 watch a little more and then obviously like they're the Cubs single as in Myrtle 92 00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:26.399 Beach and which was awesome. So I got to see them several times this 93 00:06:26.600 --> 00:06:30.120 year to see Rojas, And so I think the best thing we can do 94 00:06:30.199 --> 00:06:31.759 is like just be honest and like, okay, like we don't know everything 95 00:06:31.759 --> 00:06:35.120 about every player, but we'll be willing to learn about them, like if 96 00:06:35.120 --> 00:06:38.639 somebody questions, like, it's an opportunity to learn. And I think that 97 00:06:38.639 --> 00:06:42.439 that that presents a great opportunity in them itself to just learn in a growing 98 00:06:42.560 --> 00:06:45.920 knowledge of who these players are and to just go a little deeper. I 99 00:06:45.959 --> 00:06:48.040 think that's really well said, and at the risk of and I don't mean 100 00:06:48.079 --> 00:06:53.839 this at all, at the risk of sounding backhanded. From my experience with 101 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:58.160 you, Chris whenever it was when I first discovered some of your writing and 102 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.800 whatever. One thing that I've very much appreciated about you is that you are 103 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:08.000 always learning. You're always trying to get better at this. I appreciate the 104 00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:11.480 heck out of your hustle and your game here like you and you get that 105 00:07:11.519 --> 00:07:14.800 part of it. You get the part that you don't have all the answers. 106 00:07:15.199 --> 00:07:17.759 I don't have all the answers, Matt to nobody, constantly trying to 107 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:21.680 find some, and I've been trying to focus and be better at this. 108 00:07:21.959 --> 00:07:25.680 I don't know if I have When I get in on a player, like 109 00:07:25.759 --> 00:07:30.199 I want to know better questions about the player, not so much you know, 110 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:32.120 have better answers for it, if that If that makes sense, and 111 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:36.079 I think you do that. You're one that has put the work in and 112 00:07:36.160 --> 00:07:41.720 when you come to a conclusion, that's it. That's that's your conclusion, 113 00:07:41.879 --> 00:07:44.959 and so be it what others may think, and I just I respect the 114 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:47.639 heck out of that. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll level down on 115 00:07:47.680 --> 00:07:54.240 that too. Putting together any ordinal or even tiered ranking is really hard, 116 00:07:54.439 --> 00:07:57.480 Like you start to line these guys up. The skill sets are different, 117 00:07:57.600 --> 00:08:00.959 they're in different organizations. There's so many different ways that you can slice it. 118 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:05.759 And I have really appreciated the way that you approach it with that humility 119 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:07.519 of like I'm going to share what I know, why I made a call, 120 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:11.120 and I'm open to changing my mind, like this is what I'm looking 121 00:08:11.160 --> 00:08:15.680 for next, this is the next way that this player can develop, or 122 00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:18.680 here's what's holding them back in my mind. And I think that that's a 123 00:08:18.720 --> 00:08:22.240 really nice thing to see too. And we don't only see that in the 124 00:08:22.319 --> 00:08:24.959 Dynasty world either. Right, people have their take and they're like, I'm 125 00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.560 playing my flag and I'm not moving off this mountain. I'm going to defend 126 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:33.200 it at all costs. You can't tell me anything other is going to knock 127 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:37.080 you off that perch. And unless it's about Emmanuel Rodriguez, like you should 128 00:08:37.480 --> 00:08:43.080 move off that take at some point if you get new information. So I've 129 00:08:43.159 --> 00:08:46.799 really appreciated that about the way you approach those conversations to Chris, and you're 130 00:08:46.840 --> 00:08:48.159 never trying to say you have all the answers. You're trying to say, 131 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.840 this is where they sit in my view of where things are in the landscape, 132 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:56.600 given these constraints of fantasy baseball, and I think that that's an approach 133 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.399 that we should all take more often. Yeah, that's I mean, it's 134 00:09:00.399 --> 00:09:03.039 a tough learning like process to get to that point. I think it takes 135 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:07.759 like a lot of humility and being able to just like be honest, like 136 00:09:07.000 --> 00:09:09.919 because I think when I first started out, like I wanted to like act 137 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:13.679 like I had all the answers, but you learn quickly like you don't, 138 00:09:13.799 --> 00:09:16.799 You're pretty clueless, and I still have a lot to learn. I think 139 00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:20.279 we all have a lot to learn every day, and so I think that 140 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.440 just being able to be open and honest is huge. And like you said, 141 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.840 I think the flag plant culture in this community is interesting and everybody wanting 142 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.840 to be first, and that when people do that, like they just become 143 00:09:31.919 --> 00:09:35.320 so glued to that player, even when the player sucks, they just can't 144 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:37.279 move off of them because they've planned the flag and we were first on that 145 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.679 player, and then when they falter, it's like, okay, Like at 146 00:09:41.720 --> 00:09:45.039 some point you can move off, It's okay. I think that's important to 147 00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:48.639 like baseball's an never changing game and landscape, and to be able to like 148 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:52.240 adapt as players adapt and change too. I think that's that's highly important. 149 00:09:52.440 --> 00:09:54.919 Yeah, you know, people want and I get it. You know, 150 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.559 there's an element of this way people want the answers to the test to get 151 00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:00.799 and it's like, man, I don't have the answer to the test, 152 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:03.440 but I did some studying and this is what I this is what I got 153 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:09.519 sort of thing. So, Chris, last week we did these hypothetical trades, 154 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.360 right, Man, I didn't realize how popular and how big your dynasty 155 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:16.840 dugout discord is. I was the jerk who added everyone to vote in some 156 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:20.159 trade polls and someone's like, dude, there's like eight hundred people in here. 157 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:22.679 I can't believe. I'm like, there's eight hundred people in here, 158 00:10:22.720 --> 00:10:26.279 Like, oh, man, I had no idea. So my apologies for 159 00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:31.000 being that guy I want to do the discords for But it was nice. 160 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.320 We were wondering if like these hypothetical trades did sound as websited as we thought 161 00:10:35.399 --> 00:10:39.840 they might sound or not. So we got about seventy of you of your 162 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.279 discord folks to vote in these polls. I just wanted to go over the 163 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:48.519 results real quick, mostly because Matt totally failed one and did not get his 164 00:10:48.600 --> 00:10:54.200 trade accepted. But one of Matt's was he traded Walker Jenkins for Max Clark 165 00:10:54.399 --> 00:10:58.919 or Emmanuel Rodriguez, one of the two. To be fair, I said, 166 00:10:58.000 --> 00:11:01.679 I said, you could add an arm to the other side of the 167 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.279 side opposite Jenkins with this. But just considering that there appears to be for 168 00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:11.159 a lot of people a big tier between Jenkins, Clark, Manuel Rodriguez. 169 00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:16.320 Yeah, sixty nine percent of folks wanted Jenkins, nineteen percent wanted Emanuel Rodriguez, 170 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:20.919 and eleven percent wanted Clark. Chris, do you think, I know, 171 00:11:20.080 --> 00:11:22.759 you've got a bazillion list out there, which is awesome. You do 172 00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.559 them for different formats and all that stuff, and that's amazing because it is 173 00:11:26.679 --> 00:11:30.639 very different, I think, But do you think that there is that big 174 00:11:30.679 --> 00:11:35.720 of a gap between the value of Walker Jenkins and Max Clark sixty nine percent 175 00:11:35.759 --> 00:11:39.320 to eleven percent sort of difference? Yeah, I mean it's a it's a 176 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:43.559 sizeable gap. I mean there's a gap in my rankings, but I'm not 177 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:46.399 sure that that gap is that big. You know, when we think about 178 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:50.440 the top prospects, like is it you know, we think about tiers and 179 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:52.080 all that sort of stuff. And while I do have Clark a little lower, 180 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:56.279 like, I think that there's that chance that Clark does take a big, 181 00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:00.399 big step forward this year. I've spoken to Max Clark interviewed. He's 182 00:12:00.559 --> 00:12:03.399 incredible hard worker. I mean he when I talked to himhen he was sixteen 183 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.960 years old, he was probably and still might be the best interview I've done. 184 00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.399 Like incredible baseball mind, Like he just knows what he wants like and 185 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:15.080 he's going to put in the work to do it. So I believe in 186 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:18.120 Max Clark. If the power shows up, then yeah, he's one hundred 187 00:12:18.159 --> 00:12:20.600 percent can be a top ten prospect in my opinion, just because I think 188 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:24.679 that's the one question mark, like kind of power does he ultimately get to. 189 00:12:24.919 --> 00:12:26.960 He's a little smaller, I know, I think he's listed like six 190 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:30.320 to one. I'm not sure he's six to one with Jenkins, Like he's 191 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:33.399 every bit of six' four like Jenkins is a big bodied player and he's 192 00:12:33.440 --> 00:12:37.360 a good athlete at that too. Jenkins run times if ticked up like Jenkins 193 00:12:37.399 --> 00:12:41.399 is a is putting plus clock times up, which is pretty impressive for that 194 00:12:41.480 --> 00:12:45.039 frame. And so from that standpoint, like, I just value Jenkins higher 195 00:12:45.159 --> 00:12:48.080 at this point because I do believe that it could be a plus hit power 196 00:12:48.120 --> 00:12:52.360 and speed profile and Clark I'm still questioning, like whether the power will be 197 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.039 above average or better, and I think he can get to that. I 198 00:12:56.080 --> 00:13:00.799 do believe that. But with the present knowledge in the day, it's just 199 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.360 uh, a little more bullish on Jenkins. But no, I think that 200 00:13:03.399 --> 00:13:07.159 gap is pretty sizable on that pole. Yeah, I was actually surprised. 201 00:13:07.159 --> 00:13:11.200 I thought Emmanuel Rodriguez because from what I've gathered, the dugout is kind of 202 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:18.200 a pro Emmanuel Rodriguez group. Yeah, I'm not mistaken. I was surprised. 203 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.080 I thought everybody loved Rodriguez too. I mean, like I've been vocal 204 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.159 on him for a while a lot of people have, and so even in 205 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.679 the down quote down year, like I still have him as a top twenty 206 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.320 five guys. See, I've had this, Uh, I turned this game 207 00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:35.960 on of his I've got the screen up right now, been up for several 208 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:39.320 days, and I'm just still waiting for him to swing the bats. So 209 00:13:39.559 --> 00:13:43.799 I don't really have much of the take that is an issue. Yeah, 210 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.200 but I know that that is quite fine. Like we went over of Emmanuel 211 00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:52.759 Rodriguez the next one, These are mine Now, people hated mine, Chris, 212 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.120 they hated my, but I was. I was also going for some 213 00:13:56.159 --> 00:14:01.159 style points too. We were pretending like I was a play for a for 214 00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.519 a B side license and submitting these hypothetical trades to a committee so that I 215 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:11.360 can maybe get a license to the top things. So style points is part 216 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.080 of this. But I traded away Drew Jones for Victor Barracoto and Joey Estes. 217 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.879 How insane do you think that might be? Because mean, eighty two 218 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:24.559 percent of folks voted for Jones and eighteen percent of folks wanted my side. 219 00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.679 I think it's such a major make or break here for Jones. If he 220 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.600 struggles for the first two months of this season, he's gonna fall off really, 221 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:37.360 really hard. And Barracoto, like, he's pretty interesting. His data 222 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:41.559 actually surprised me a bit, Like when I'm dug in to the numbers and 223 00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:43.159 I was like, dang, this was I was low on him, got 224 00:14:43.240 --> 00:14:46.919 him as like a top two to fifty guy at this point. He's pretty 225 00:14:46.919 --> 00:14:50.200 aggressive and like the contact rates are like fine, But he had a one 226 00:14:50.279 --> 00:14:54.399 oh seven mone hour ninth percentile and supposedly he posted a max of one twenty 227 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:58.519 two. I'm not sure if that's a mystery or not. I don't know 228 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.799 if that was a mystery. That's that in the system, so like it's 229 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:05.960 out there, so I mean, he may be a thirty home run bad 230 00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.720 that it's like two seventy. I think jones upside is obviously pretty significant, 231 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:13.440 but jones swing path is terrible. There's a lot of things going on that 232 00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:18.039 just aren't pretty at all with Jones. And so while we're kind of hanging 233 00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:20.440 on to the upside with him, it could be like he may fall one 234 00:15:20.519 --> 00:15:24.360 hundred plus spots like two months in the year and maybe even further if things 235 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:28.360 don't get better. And Joey Estes, I mean, he's a he's a 236 00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:31.600 solid arm. I think he's a high floor kind of arm, not flashy. 237 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:33.840 I mean, I'd still take Jones there, but I wouldn't be surprised 238 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.159 to say, like we're in July next year, and Jones could be sitting 239 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:39.519 like outside my top two hundred, Like I wouldn't be shocked in that at 240 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:45.120 all. And we did these the eve of Baseball America dropping their new top 241 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.120 one hundred. And I'm glad that I got these trades in then, because 242 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.879 two of my three got top fifty at the time consensus prospects and falling out 243 00:15:52.919 --> 00:15:56.279 of favor at least at least there the next one, Claig, this is 244 00:15:56.320 --> 00:15:58.320 part of why I wanted to have you on too, because Matt and I 245 00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:02.720 have thrown some questions at a couple of players that I know you are quite 246 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:04.320 fond of, So I wanted to give you a chance here to let our 247 00:16:04.399 --> 00:16:08.960 listeners understand how we might be way off the mark here. But he traded 248 00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:15.000 away Carson Williams for Jet Williams and Isaac Coffee. But now the poll says 249 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:19.879 that this trade would have been rejected because fifty seven percent preferred Jet Williams over 250 00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:26.000 Carson Williams. So I think Jet and Carson are pretty close to this point. 251 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.759 Like value Eise, I was pretty high on Carson, like really early 252 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:33.039 just I saw him and I was like, dang, this guy's got the 253 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:37.840 power and speed you want to see, and he excelled at lower levels because 254 00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:41.440 he didn't see advanced breaking balls. And as he's kind of moved up, 255 00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:45.480 like he's kind of got eaten up on sliders a lot. Like that's really 256 00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:48.679 the struggles with Carson is the sliders and chase out his own, which is 257 00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:52.120 interesting because the chase rate still has remained pretty low. But I've seen some 258 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.200 some ugly swings. He's just a premium athlete, like really just a plus 259 00:16:56.200 --> 00:17:02.080 shortstop at that and he the power are speed combos there, like while the 260 00:17:02.120 --> 00:17:04.079 home runs are fine, like you think he hit twenty two this year if 261 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.000 I'm not mistaken, but he spray's line, drives to all fields. He 262 00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:11.400 it's all really hard. I think he had a one o eight ninth percentile. 263 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:15.119 So the evs are there with Carson Williams, but the contact is going 264 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.599 to have to improve there with Jet. It is kind of like the kind 265 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:23.000 of the opposite where Jet makes the most of his power. EV's are more 266 00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:29.079 middling, but he uses his entire body well, he has speed. Ultimately, 267 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:30.960 the contact is just more advanced, Like Jet's going to make much more 268 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:33.400 contact. He's not going to chase out of his own as much, so 269 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:36.480 he's going to be on base as a higher clip. I think it's an 270 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:41.440 interesting argument because I do think they're pretty close at this point. If I'm 271 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:44.000 not mistaken, I think they're pretty close to my rankings. I don't have 272 00:17:44.079 --> 00:17:47.480 that in front of me, but at this point, like I was pretty 273 00:17:47.559 --> 00:17:49.400 high on Carson, I kind of pulled back a little bit on that and 274 00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.559 the recent update to having like around fifty. I think both are around fifty 275 00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:56.559 for me, and then you throw in Coffee, who seen a good bit 276 00:17:56.920 --> 00:18:00.680 Coffee is an interesting arm. Talk a little bit bit him in the discord 277 00:18:00.720 --> 00:18:04.519 the other day where he's one of the most unique outlier arms I've seen from 278 00:18:04.519 --> 00:18:11.079 a release point standpoint. The movement profile like east to west is is really 279 00:18:11.119 --> 00:18:15.839 interesting, and the just knock is the v low like he's eighty eight eighty 280 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.119 nine and he's not getting above ninety, which hurts him and my fears like 281 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:22.240 it hurts him as he moves up levels like he was dominating high hitters because 282 00:18:22.279 --> 00:18:26.559 it was such a unique profile even though it was eighty eight eighty nine. 283 00:18:26.599 --> 00:18:30.240 I mean, like the movement was just so insane on all the pitches and 284 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.359 like he's throwing stuff at hitters that they're not used to seeing, so like 285 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:37.640 they're used to seeing like these you know, pretty solid like high riding fastballs, 286 00:18:37.680 --> 00:18:41.039 and then here we are a Coffee's doing unique things. So he's pretty 287 00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:44.240 interesting to me. I like Coffee. I'm not like overly high on him, 288 00:18:44.279 --> 00:18:47.160 but yeah, I mean I would. I guess like the trade could 289 00:18:47.319 --> 00:18:51.279 potentially favor the Jet Coffee side, like just because I have those guys, 290 00:18:51.319 --> 00:18:56.000 Carson and Jet pretty close. Carson was pushed fairly fast. Matt had referenced, 291 00:18:56.000 --> 00:18:59.799 like the k's being the concern there is tricky, right, I mean, 292 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.119 like you said, you don't see certain level particularly secondaries, yeah, 293 00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:08.359 until you start going. And a lot of it on that trade was that 294 00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:14.279 I wanted to hype how good a base runner Jet is, like the way 295 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.200 that he steals bases. He has good speed, but he is a very 296 00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:22.160 good base stealer and in Dynasty, like you can't underrate that, especially from 297 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:26.400 a guy with solid contact and get into more power than you might expect. 298 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.000 He's like one of those sort of underrated guys. When I dove into him 299 00:19:30.039 --> 00:19:33.640 this offseason, I was like, man, he looks more like a top 300 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:37.640 twenty five prospect to me in a five x five dynasty, just because I 301 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.039 think the steels are real. I think he's going to play up the middle 302 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:44.920 somewhere and has enough power to not be a zero there like that is that's 303 00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.920 gold. Yeah, I mean he's stile at forty five this year, like 304 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:52.240 highly efficient based steeler. I think certainly the upside is there for way more 305 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:56.559 steels than what Carson Williams brings. I think Carson probably is going to be 306 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.480 a consistent, like around twenty stolen based guy. But Jeed obviously showed that 307 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:03.319 he can be forty plus, which is is pretty huge there, and so 308 00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:07.359 that's certainly something something to keep an eye on. While Carson may have the 309 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:11.920 edge of power, Jet certainly has the edge of speed and contact at this 310 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:15.759 point. So yeah, both young, both have been pushed aggressively, so 311 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.519 it'll be fun to watch them this year. I think definitely had to have 312 00:20:19.519 --> 00:20:23.200 some Williams on Williams action there. Yeah. Yeah. The next one was 313 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:26.720 and that this more of like kind of an honorable mention one probably more of 314 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.359 just a straight up player of debate. But Kyle Teal versus Dalton Rushing, 315 00:20:30.519 --> 00:20:34.480 it was pretty split fifty two percent deal forty eight Rushing. Matt and I 316 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:38.960 have both on this show questioned if we really believe in Teal's bat. I 317 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.680 know that you have spoken about Teal in the discord quite a bit. But 318 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:45.839 if you want, if you want to make an argument for Teal here, 319 00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.119 go for it. I know you do have some interest and takes on it. 320 00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:52.720 But if you don't want to, we can just pass to It's your 321 00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:56.440 call. I mean, I certainly love Rushing's bat. I don't believe that 322 00:20:56.519 --> 00:21:00.839 Rushing sticks behind the plate, which certainly changes like the out a little bit, 323 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:03.960 especially for like a fantasy landscape. You know, where does he land? 324 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:07.079 I guess that's the biggest question. Most likely a first base. He 325 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.440 has the bat to play first base. But when we're looking at the catcher 326 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.319 landscape, I think Teal's profile. He's one of the best defensive catchers in 327 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.119 the game already, and you know, just had the privilege to see him 328 00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:21.720 for a short time in Greenville when he was here before he already was sent 329 00:21:21.759 --> 00:21:23.599 to double A. But he's going to stick behind the plate long term. 330 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:29.200 He's got plus framing skills, he's got a plus arm, he's got ridiculous 331 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:33.640 pop times and the bat in hisself is very solid, and so I know 332 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.519 it was kind of concerning. Some people were questioning when you know, Baseball 333 00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:40.920 America put out the evs for the top one hundred and and TiAl came in 334 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:44.160 with like a eighty four average EV. It is like eighty three to nine. 335 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:45.720 I think and be like, oh, he doesn't have any power, 336 00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:49.640 and so you know, there's there's certainly aspects of that, like TiAl hit 337 00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.319 two home runs so far, like in his professional career, he but he's 338 00:21:53.319 --> 00:21:57.200 only played total games he's got when he's six games under his belt, and 339 00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:02.640 not much you know obviously to write home about other than really good contact, 340 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.079 really good on base skills, steals a premium athlete, like he's a much 341 00:22:06.079 --> 00:22:08.920 better athlete than rushing. He's going to steal bases too, which is interesting, 342 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:12.880 Like he's got good instincts, he runs well. I think that certainly 343 00:22:12.920 --> 00:22:17.119 helps him stand out from the catcher standpoint that he can steal bases. And 344 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:19.319 I don't think he's going to be extraordinary power guy. But the evs like 345 00:22:19.400 --> 00:22:22.240 to me suggests like a fifteen home run bat. You look at what he 346 00:22:22.279 --> 00:22:26.640 did, like a large sample of his college evs with like metal bats, 347 00:22:26.680 --> 00:22:30.160 you aggress it to like the typical what we see with like wood, and 348 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.079 I think fifteen's pretty reasonable. Steal bags, get on base, hit it 349 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:36.480 for a good average, he's going to play every year, like he's a 350 00:22:36.519 --> 00:22:38.880 catcher that can stick behind play every day behind the dish, which is is 351 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:42.400 huge. We've seen those guys be extremely valuable for fantasy and so I think 352 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.279 just all those things combined for me, like kind of just give toeal that 353 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:49.720 edge when I just feel like rushing probably moves off the position long term, 354 00:22:49.799 --> 00:22:55.480 even though rushing certainly has the the obps are probably similar actually, even though 355 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.400 we've seen some pretty gaudy obps from rushing too. But the power standpoint that 356 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:03.480 does go to rushing. But when you factor in the rest of stuff, 357 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:06.279 like I think that it's just it Teel. For me, it was just 358 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:11.160 an interesting combo because they both came out and had really great pro debuts after 359 00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.799 being you know, well regarded prospects, but coming to the draft and then 360 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:21.920 both absolutely hit the ground running, and then it felt as if rushing had 361 00:23:21.960 --> 00:23:26.240 been a bit forgotten. And Nate asked me what happened to Rushing this year, 362 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:27.480 and I was like, I mean, he had like a one forty 363 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:33.440 five WRC plusa like he was bad rose up levels, was showing the power, 364 00:23:33.519 --> 00:23:36.680 was showing the VP, and you know he's a fine catcher, like 365 00:23:36.720 --> 00:23:38.559 he's likely to move off. I think that's a fair take. But it 366 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:44.039 was just funny that Teal did sort of the same thing that the Rushing did, 367 00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:48.559 albeit the shape of the production was different, and it just everybody's on 368 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.279 Teal after the almost the exact same thing happened with Rushing the year before, 369 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:56.839 and now they're valued differently, and so it was just more of a like, 370 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.839 are we hyping this guy a little too much much after a small sample 371 00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:07.119 and another guy who we've got a bigger sample and maybe have more confidence in 372 00:24:07.160 --> 00:24:10.799 the bat that we might want to put those two a little bit closer together. 373 00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.039 And that was that was more my view there. Yeah, yeah, 374 00:24:14.079 --> 00:24:17.279 both of them. I mean, Rushing was like the best pro debut after 375 00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:18.519 the draft in his class. I mean, I won't say Teal was the 376 00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:22.759 best pro debut, but he had a really solid debut too. But I 377 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.039 guess the biggest thing for me, like I was just more confident in Teal 378 00:24:26.160 --> 00:24:30.400 like pre draft and so just who he is as a player, like just 379 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.240 a little more well versed. And I'd say, like I've seen Teal live 380 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:37.960 at this point, haven't seen rushing, but I'm just a little more confident 381 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:41.000 in who Teal is as a player versus rushing, Like we've seen some volatility, 382 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.839 like the fielding standpoint, like certainly factors in two to that. But 383 00:24:45.000 --> 00:24:48.400 yeah, I think you're right. I think Rushing still probably deserve it to 384 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:52.440 be a top one hundred prospect. And I'm not sure I have him been 385 00:24:52.480 --> 00:24:56.799 there. He's not far outside if not, but you're right, he might 386 00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:59.039 have been just in the side. I think, yeah, yeah, I 387 00:24:59.039 --> 00:25:02.200 think he was like ninety six if I'm not mistaken. So yeah, that 388 00:25:02.319 --> 00:25:04.559 seems seems right. But yeah, it was interesting that like people kind of 389 00:25:04.559 --> 00:25:07.839 moved off here, right. One forty six WRC plus four four OBP. 390 00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:15.839 Still pretty impressive stuff there for rushing. And then my next one, Chris 391 00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:19.160 I stuck. I swapped some catchers as well, but only sixteen percent of 392 00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:26.559 folks liked my idea. Here I traded Harry Ford for Ivan Herrera and Caden 393 00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:30.200 Dana. I think here is actually really underrated. I think Herrera could really 394 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:34.519 pop off this year. Like his numbers weren't like super flashy last year in 395 00:25:34.559 --> 00:25:40.000 Triple A, but his data was extremely solid. He's been pretty good for 396 00:25:40.039 --> 00:25:42.759 a couple of years. And yeah, I'm a MARINERDS fan and this was 397 00:25:42.799 --> 00:25:47.440 my favorite one of Nate's. Yeah, I love Harry Ford. Ford is 398 00:25:47.559 --> 00:25:49.960 undersized, though, and that kind of worries me. I seeing him more 399 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:52.440 this year in the AFL is kind of like, Okay, like I'm not 400 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:56.599 really sure like he's got the athleticism to play catcher, but did they move 401 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:00.359 him off? It's highly possible. I think that they could move him off. 402 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.279 And I think Herrera is just flowing into the radar for so long. 403 00:26:03.559 --> 00:26:06.519 I do think he probably pops off this year. He's gonna should be the 404 00:26:06.599 --> 00:26:10.799 starting catcher for the Cardinals. I mean, dude made really good contact last 405 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:15.319 year. Eighty four percent zone chased a twenty percent clip, Like that's just 406 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:18.680 really good numbers to combine the chase and the contact, And he hit the 407 00:26:18.720 --> 00:26:22.640 ball absurdly hard on one of seven ninth percentile is really good for power, 408 00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.799 so that he just hits it the other way too much and yeah, too 409 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:30.680 much, And there is some power in there. That one was a bit 410 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:34.839 different for me because I don't have any like glaring red flags with Harry Ford. 411 00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:37.519 I don't hate him as a prospect or anything like that. I just 412 00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:41.640 tend to think he's just generally a little bit overrated for my taste. And 413 00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.519 I was just trying to be sneaky and cool with this one, you know. 414 00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:48.759 Yeah, and here question for about you about Ford? For you, 415 00:26:49.079 --> 00:26:52.839 what do you think his hummer output is gonna look like this year? So 416 00:26:52.880 --> 00:26:59.359 he's probably gonna be in Arkansas. He hit what like sixteen last year in 417 00:26:59.400 --> 00:27:02.279 pretty much a full season. What do you think he's going to do this 418 00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.039 year? Well, I mean he's he's probably the power output from a home 419 00:27:06.079 --> 00:27:08.200 run standpoints probably not gonna look great. And I think people are just gonna 420 00:27:08.279 --> 00:27:11.440 jump off of them. But that seems like the nature of prospecting, like 421 00:27:11.440 --> 00:27:15.200 they don't take into account like things like that ballpark being bad. You know. 422 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:19.279 Ford ford ninth percentile last year was one O three, which is right 423 00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:23.480 at MLB average, So that to me is encouraging. That's actually more than 424 00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:26.920 I would have guessed. Yeah. Yeah, And so he hit fifteen home 425 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.400 runs, but he had so many line drives I think, and even goes 426 00:27:30.440 --> 00:27:33.559 to willing to go the other way that that probably affects the home run output. 427 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:38.279 The contact skills were fine, like seventy four percent. Overall chase rates 428 00:27:38.279 --> 00:27:42.480 have been extremely good, like the like he was like sixteen percent chase, 429 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.960 which is crazy, but he's kind of the Emmanuel Rodriguez like he swung less 430 00:27:47.000 --> 00:27:49.119 than forty percent of time, so that factors in. So I wouldn't be 431 00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:52.440 shocked at all if Ford, you know, puts up a fifteen home run 432 00:27:52.480 --> 00:27:56.519 season like again in Arkansas, maybe even a little less, and people kind 433 00:27:56.559 --> 00:28:00.279 of like, oh crap, like this guy doesn't have power. Kind I 434 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:03.599 think that's what's gonna happen. I think he's gonna put up maybe ten eleven 435 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.839 because Arkansas is a tough part to hit in. Obviously the jumping level, 436 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.799 he's still young. I'm a believer long term. The athleticism is there. 437 00:28:11.920 --> 00:28:17.559 I think he's a really good athlete. But I wonder if they start putting 438 00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:21.519 him in the outfield a little bit more and have him learn a new position 439 00:28:21.759 --> 00:28:26.200 as well and see some of the offensive numbers kind of fall, Like I 440 00:28:26.200 --> 00:28:29.880 wonder if we're going to see a little bit of the Gabby Rodriguez or Gabby 441 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.599 Gonzalez thing as well. We're come up to double A, going to struggle 442 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:37.200 a little bit more. And so if you're really into Harry Ford long term, 443 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.400 this might just be a highlight of like, why don't you check in 444 00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.079 in four months into the season next year and see if you can acquire him 445 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:48.039 for less than you can do right now. Yeah, the perceived value seems 446 00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:51.480 like it's certainly going to drop, which is wild, but that's just the 447 00:28:51.559 --> 00:28:55.119 nature of the game. So I'm I'm certainly on board with that idea. 448 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:57.480 And then Chris, I think Matt's going to need a friend for this last 449 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:02.440 one, and I think the way that your ranks go, you might be 450 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.799 that friend. I kicked him off of our team. I didn't let him 451 00:29:04.799 --> 00:29:08.559 co manage this team with me anymore. But because he wanted to trade Brady 452 00:29:08.599 --> 00:29:15.279 House for Brian Ramos, seventy of the voters thought Matt was crazy here. 453 00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:17.680 So what do you think? No, I mean, I think it's closer 454 00:29:17.720 --> 00:29:22.400 than people are willing to say. Brady House is just a popular name. 455 00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:25.319 I actually have him back to back in the rankings, so that kind of 456 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:29.279 tells you where I'm at on. I do think we see a rebound from 457 00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:33.000 House, but I also think that people just really underrate Brian Ramos. I 458 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.160 think he's a stellar bat. When I saw him in the AFL, his 459 00:29:37.759 --> 00:29:40.079 like you can get a good idea of who he is on film, and 460 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:41.240 then you see him, You're like, dang, this guy is just so 461 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.599 physically mature, Like he's absolutely jacked a great athlete. Like to me, 462 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:51.200 Ramos may be up with the White Sox this year. They just don't have 463 00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:56.960 anybody in that infield's it's worth anything, So it's possibility we see him just 464 00:29:56.000 --> 00:30:00.759 the infield. Yeah that's true. That's just trying to be not but uh, 465 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:04.079 you know, so with House, like certainly he hasn't lived up to 466 00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:10.880 expectations. He has been a well known name since he was like fourteen years 467 00:30:10.880 --> 00:30:15.880 old on the showcase circuit. He had some injuries that affected him in twenty 468 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.839 twenty two, but the power still there. I mean he had a one 469 00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:22.279 o seven mine hour ninth percentile. Ramos was right there. Ramos was at 470 00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:25.759 one of six. So the powers there with both just comes down to the 471 00:30:25.799 --> 00:30:29.400 contact. For both of them. Both are pretty aggressive. House chased a 472 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:33.039 thirty five percent clip, which is concerning. Ramos didn't chase at those kind 473 00:30:33.039 --> 00:30:36.400 of levels, So I'm interested to see how it plays out for both. 474 00:30:36.480 --> 00:30:38.440 The upside probably goes to House, but yeah, it's not crazy to say 475 00:30:38.480 --> 00:30:42.480 that that Ramos is a dude and certainly a fair trade. I made the 476 00:30:42.559 --> 00:30:47.720 argument House hit like over three hundred versus rities, where Ramos hit like two 477 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.319 thirty, and yeah, I think always kind of struggled versus rieties. But 478 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.279 it's Matt's trade. I'll just shut up and keep my nose out of it. 479 00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:57.759 But thank you, thanks for thanks for your your opinions on those. 480 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.720 So Chris, you did it the top one thousand lists, which was awesome 481 00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:06.480 for me because I got I took our B side list, our B side 482 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:10.039 selections and kind of see where you had them, and a good amount of 483 00:31:10.039 --> 00:31:11.519 them made the list. So that made that made me happy. It made 484 00:31:11.519 --> 00:31:15.160 me feel like maybe Matt and I aren't too crazy. But I'm curious through 485 00:31:15.160 --> 00:31:19.960 your process. Now, your process was writing a bazillion organizational list and then 486 00:31:21.240 --> 00:31:23.759 you made the top one thousand after that, right, yes, yes, 487 00:31:23.960 --> 00:31:29.119 I wrote up every player first. Yeah, so I'm curious through that process 488 00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:33.160 and all that mudding that you did. Were there some interesting guys to you 489 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:36.599 that perhaps maybe you didn't know a lot about or just really kind of got 490 00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.000 your attention. Who might be some of like Chris Klegg's B sides, which 491 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.599 I know might be a little bit trickier because you do put lists out there 492 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.039 and do brank guys, how you value them? Who are some more interesting 493 00:31:48.039 --> 00:31:51.440 guys that you came across. Mm, that's a good question. I was 494 00:31:51.559 --> 00:31:53.519 gonna look at it kind of filter my sheep like the Risers, I guess 495 00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:57.039 because there are certainly players You're like, dang, like I really didn't realize 496 00:31:57.079 --> 00:32:01.279 like how good players were. Yeah, and that kind of leads to good 497 00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:05.880 evaluation. You're like, Okay, like these guys are are certainly worthy to 498 00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:09.079 be talked about. And it's not even a B side, But actually I 499 00:32:09.079 --> 00:32:13.480 think it's because of you, Nate. You ranke Drew Romo really highly in 500 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.559 the Rockies right up, you did, And so I kind of went back 501 00:32:15.559 --> 00:32:16.640 to the table on him, like he was in my top five hundred, 502 00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:20.680 and so I was like, Okay, what is it the Like, why 503 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:22.559 am I like lower on this guy? And it kind of came to the 504 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.720 conclusion like okay, like certainly he fits in much higher south from like around 505 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.880 the two fifty range, which was a pretty good jump. There's a guy 506 00:32:30.880 --> 00:32:35.039 in this draft class, Barrett Kent with the Angels, who I feel like 507 00:32:35.079 --> 00:32:38.240 nobody talks about, but I'm like super in on Barrett Kent based on the 508 00:32:38.799 --> 00:32:43.359 numbers and like the couple innings that he did throw that we could watch, 509 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.319 Like, dang, this guy's a pretty spectacular arm. He's got big stuff. 510 00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:51.880 He's got a great starter's frame, like just a workhorse type. Leonardo 511 00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.839 Balcazar with the Reds, somebody that kind of I've always had the name on 512 00:32:55.880 --> 00:33:00.279 the radar, but like in the reevaluation is like okay, like he's he's 513 00:33:00.319 --> 00:33:02.559 significantly better than I thought he was. And even though like him play a 514 00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:05.880 whole lot, he was injured this year, It's like okay, like this 515 00:33:05.880 --> 00:33:09.200 this guy needs to be moved up a sizable amount. There's definitely, you 516 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:13.119 know, the last several years doing trying to do some of this B side 517 00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.880 stuff, Like injury is a big it's a big part of this, a 518 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:19.640 big part of where you know, some guys might get overlooked so to speak, 519 00:33:19.640 --> 00:33:22.160 because yeah, yeah, well you enlighten me a little bit, because 520 00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:24.759 I admittedly I know the name, but I don't know a ton about bells 521 00:33:24.759 --> 00:33:28.759 of car. Yeah, he was. He's not very old, right, 522 00:33:29.039 --> 00:33:32.160 No, he's young red short stop prospect and the system has been so good, 523 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:37.200 so it's kind of like overshadowed who he is as a player. But 524 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:44.319 he's smaller. He's like listed five ten one ninety so oh yeah, so 525 00:33:44.839 --> 00:33:47.599 he's that size that ye know, Matt loves. He's nineteen though, and 526 00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:51.680 I do think he's gotten a little bigger. I will say he's kind of 527 00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:54.240 like a top of the order type profile that makes really strong contact. He 528 00:33:54.240 --> 00:33:58.960 gets on pace of a high clip. The approach like very simple, like 529 00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:00.680 he doesn't try to do a lot. He's gonna hit the ball where it's 530 00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:06.839 pitch. He's showing really good gap power already, and he started to generate 531 00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:09.960 a little bit more home run power too. Obviously like a hit tool first 532 00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:14.400 type profile, but I do believe that he could be like a fifteen home 533 00:34:14.480 --> 00:34:16.679 run bat. It also steals you fifteen bases. And while it's not like 534 00:34:16.719 --> 00:34:21.719 a super sexy profile by any means. When he was doing his rehab for 535 00:34:21.800 --> 00:34:24.679 his knee, he added ten pounds of like pure muscle like during the rehab, 536 00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:29.000 which was huge. And so I think that he's one that we could 537 00:34:29.000 --> 00:34:32.199 see a stock like really take off in twenty twenty four just because like kind 538 00:34:32.199 --> 00:34:37.760 of the outside out of mind thing. And he showed at the complex level, 539 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:40.079 like really good skills in twenty twenty two, and he was off to 540 00:34:40.119 --> 00:34:46.079 a really good start with single a Daytona before the injury. So I'm I'm 541 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.559 certainly heading my best with him kind of being a breakout type guy right on. 542 00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:54.000 Nice sweet, Well, thank you for those that's yeah, that's nice. 543 00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:59.320 The mutters look good on you, Chris. Well, so Matt I 544 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.920 shared with you you you looked at the our B side list with Clegg's ranks 545 00:35:02.920 --> 00:35:06.960 next to him, right, mm hmm. All right, well I'll give 546 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:09.679 you the floor here. You got any questions for Chris. Any players you 547 00:35:09.679 --> 00:35:14.519 want to talk about, Well, I think the one I wanted to talk 548 00:35:14.559 --> 00:35:17.559 about is, or at least ask you about, is Caleb Durban. I 549 00:35:19.280 --> 00:35:22.679 would have bet my four thousand dollars that was the player that I was to 550 00:35:22.679 --> 00:35:25.079 ask you about first. Well, he when I saw the list, I 551 00:35:25.159 --> 00:35:28.440 was like, okay, of course, a bunch of these guys aren't top 552 00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:31.840 one thousand, probably wouldn't have been in my top one thousand either, but 553 00:35:32.159 --> 00:35:37.880 Caleb Durbin definitely would have been. And so I wanted to just hear what 554 00:35:37.920 --> 00:35:44.360 was it about his profile that you're rounding down on or what's what's your take 555 00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:46.639 on Durban because I'm a big fan. Yeah, I think he's in pretty 556 00:35:46.719 --> 00:35:52.440 unique player, as saw him in the AFL chat with him for a few 557 00:35:52.599 --> 00:35:59.199 Fall Stars. He's an interesting build, like he's very short, very stocky 558 00:35:59.440 --> 00:36:05.679 type bill and so like from that standpoint, like the athleticism is not very 559 00:36:05.719 --> 00:36:07.800 advanced. Let's a I guess that's the word I'm looking for, but he 560 00:36:08.000 --> 00:36:12.679 certainly plays above his means as far as like the when you look at him, 561 00:36:12.719 --> 00:36:15.400 you wouldn't see a baseball player at all. And he's done a lot 562 00:36:15.440 --> 00:36:19.079 of things well, like he actually moves well. And I say he's not 563 00:36:19.079 --> 00:36:22.000 a great athlete, but he's stolen bases, like he's proved that he's put 564 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:24.840 up Let's see, I'm trying to do math here on the on the fly 565 00:36:24.960 --> 00:36:30.760 at thirty six stolen bases between two levels last year. He makes really good 566 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:34.639 contact, I think at an eighty eight percent contact rate last year, which 567 00:36:34.679 --> 00:36:37.760 is significant, Like that's that's huge, That's one of the best contact rates 568 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:42.119 there was. But ultimately, like twenty three year old in High A, 569 00:36:42.480 --> 00:36:45.079 okay, like that was great. He jumped to double A and continued to 570 00:36:45.159 --> 00:36:47.519 do that, which was really solid at two ninety one in double A last 571 00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:52.000 year with a three sixty one OVP. He even hit some homers, which 572 00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.079 was was big. I guess for me, the question kind of lies like 573 00:36:54.119 --> 00:36:58.480 what kind of fantasy prospect are we looking at and what kind of power does 574 00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:00.800 he get to like TV's are or not so great? So I think he's 575 00:37:00.840 --> 00:37:05.880 probably like a sub ten home run bat. And I really do question the 576 00:37:05.880 --> 00:37:09.000 ability of steal bases, and so like long term, it's with like he's 577 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:12.760 shown it, like he's shown he can steal, like with the body and 578 00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.440 you know, the athleticism. I'm just not sure that he steals a ton 579 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:20.280 as a professional or like he's a professional excuse me, is an MLB player. 580 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:22.519 Then he does make it. And while he's shown the ability to be 581 00:37:22.840 --> 00:37:25.920 pretty proficient based stealer, I mean he's fifteen out of sixteen in A High 582 00:37:25.960 --> 00:37:30.760 A, twenty one A twenty eight in double A so really solid success rates 583 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:34.239 there. I'll be curious to see, like what that looks like as he 584 00:37:34.280 --> 00:37:37.320 moves up and faces better catching. And I guess the biggest question is like 585 00:37:37.440 --> 00:37:42.559 what kind of role does he feel? He feels like a potential like utility 586 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:46.360 bench bat, and I don't know where he finds consistent playing time. And 587 00:37:46.840 --> 00:37:50.719 I guess that's the question marks around him that I have, even though I'm 588 00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:53.320 rooting for him, like he's a Braves guy, Braves drafted him. I 589 00:37:53.360 --> 00:37:58.440 hope that he succeeds, but I'm not sure that he's an everyday guy. 590 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:00.440 At the major QUL one probably half you know that top one thousand are and 591 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:05.000 so if they were like more than half, I guess that would be a 592 00:38:05.079 --> 00:38:07.480 huge success. So yeah, I guess he has questions like anybody else, 593 00:38:07.519 --> 00:38:12.440 and probably deserving to be on there, just maybe a missed opportunity to put 594 00:38:12.519 --> 00:38:15.960 him on that list. I think the two things for me were running a 595 00:38:15.000 --> 00:38:20.880 four point six percent krate at double A. Wow, nobody does that. 596 00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:24.559 I mean, that's like Luris Ariaz did it at triple A, and one 597 00:38:24.599 --> 00:38:29.159 other person I think in the last fifteen years did that at double A. 598 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:34.599 So showing that sort of contact rate. It really plays in thirty six steals 599 00:38:34.719 --> 00:38:37.880 in half a season this year, because that was about maybe two thirds of 600 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.760 the season this year. That shows that he's really willing to run. I'm 601 00:38:42.800 --> 00:38:45.960 with you, I don't know if he plays d well enough to be a 602 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:50.559 second baseman, even at the highest level. And there's not an impact bat. 603 00:38:50.719 --> 00:38:53.239 He's never going to get to power in and so you're really going to 604 00:38:53.239 --> 00:38:57.960 put that in the outfield. Like, so he's probably a utility guy. 605 00:38:58.119 --> 00:39:02.960 But if he does stick around somewhere, I think that showing that aggressiveness that 606 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:07.000 he is willing to steal and he's pretty good at it, and that yeah, 607 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:09.360 his evs aren't good, but he's getting all of it. Like you 608 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:13.559 watched this guy swing and if that ball's on the inner third, he is 609 00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.639 turning on it and putting in the air and running, you know. And 610 00:39:16.039 --> 00:39:20.079 he's a guy that I'm super interested to follow. It'll be interesting to see 611 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:22.320 how he backs that up. He'll probably start next year at Somerset again, 612 00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:28.559 and maybe he'll push triple A and they'll force his hands somewhere and maybe he's 613 00:39:28.599 --> 00:39:30.800 just a trade guy too and gets to go play for one of those really 614 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:37.079 phenomenal organizations in Chicago that Nate loves so much. Back it off, Chris, 615 00:39:37.119 --> 00:39:39.159 So, I don't know if the first episode that Matt and I did, 616 00:39:39.159 --> 00:39:44.320 we started this thing off by doing some competitive b siding. Right, 617 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:49.159 We had a draft and we're gonna look at the percentage points of these players, 618 00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.360 you know, a year later and whoever's guys became more popular win? 619 00:39:52.599 --> 00:39:57.559 Right? So, and Thatt's just been writing a Durban roller coaster because he 620 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:00.039 drafted Durban, then he went off in the af FELL and then he was 621 00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:04.199 admitted from your top one thousands. So it's just it's been an up and 622 00:40:04.239 --> 00:40:07.159 down ride for ma here. But I wanted to ask you about first year 623 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:13.840 player Trevor Werner and essentially kind of grouping him with Jase Bobafron? Is that 624 00:40:13.920 --> 00:40:15.599 how you say it? Is that, right, Bobafron? Yeah? I 625 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:21.840 think that's right. And like Matthew Etzel and Matt's guy c J. Kapis, 626 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:27.360 these are all four twenty twenty three draft guys, college guys who came 627 00:40:27.360 --> 00:40:31.000 in and very much impressed Matt and I on the video, right, And 628 00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:35.440 we've talked about some first year player draft stuff. How do you weigh this? 629 00:40:35.639 --> 00:40:38.280 How do you balance this? Because I've spoke about I'm kind of struggling 630 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.840 a little bit. I want more and more. I want to push these 631 00:40:42.840 --> 00:40:45.599 guys kind of up my first year player drafts. Like I said, it 632 00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:51.079 seems like more and more every year. Trevor Warner was other than Langford most 633 00:40:51.159 --> 00:40:54.079 impressive guy debut in my opinion, I don't know what do you what are 634 00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:57.400 your thoughts on that? How do you how do you weigh that? The 635 00:40:57.440 --> 00:41:00.920 samples are tough, like a small sample of a drafty. It's like, 636 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:04.280 okay, like this guy was a later pick, so you know, it 637 00:41:04.360 --> 00:41:08.400 does make it a little bit harder to kind of you know, evaluate Werner 638 00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:12.559 was awesome though, Like I've got to see a lot of him in Columbia. 639 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:17.559 Yeah, it was spectacular, dude, Like everything was just hard. 640 00:41:17.719 --> 00:41:22.800 Man. It's it's such a low effort swing to and he just he it's 641 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:28.199 it's so hard with like such little effort, and he controls the barrel like 642 00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.079 he's getting pitches all over the zone. And it was like, okay, 643 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:34.639 like this guy went from like pretty much a nobody, like he was like 644 00:41:34.679 --> 00:41:37.639 a just a guy out of Texas A and m to he was he was 645 00:41:37.679 --> 00:41:40.440 a two way guy for them for a little bit. Correct. Yeah, 646 00:41:40.559 --> 00:41:44.199 yeah, So I don't know how. I don't know how long he's really 647 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:46.360 been a full time hitter. I have no idea. I don't follow with 648 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.599 Texas A and M. Yeah, I don't know. I think he could, 649 00:41:49.679 --> 00:41:52.119 uh, he might just pop off and be like aitch all thirty home 650 00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:58.960 run bat like pretty insane. Actually, so I'm a I'm rother in on 651 00:41:58.960 --> 00:42:01.440 on Werner just from be able to get live looks at him like he was 652 00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:06.760 just so impressive, and I think, right, he can move really quick. 653 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:12.320 So yeah, like Boba, he's different. Boba Fran's different because there 654 00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.559 weren't any broadcasts so I've never seen him play, but the numbers and stuff 655 00:42:16.119 --> 00:42:20.199 are very impressive. And I've had a friend of mine, Steve, who 656 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:22.480 follows preps very closely, hit me up after we talked about him on the 657 00:42:22.480 --> 00:42:24.639 show and was like, yeah, man, back in the day, I 658 00:42:24.679 --> 00:42:28.760 thought he was up there with all the big prep names of that class and 659 00:42:29.280 --> 00:42:30.679 stuff like that. So like, I don't know. For me, I 660 00:42:30.719 --> 00:42:34.079 struggle doing the first year of players. So I was like, dude, 661 00:42:34.079 --> 00:42:37.679 I'm probably gonna draft Werner way before anybody else in my league will and I 662 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:39.239 think I'll be fine. We kind of referenced, like how do you pair 663 00:42:39.280 --> 00:42:44.519 that up against a guy like Race Davis who really really struggled. Yeah, 664 00:42:44.719 --> 00:42:46.800 that's tough. I mean, like you look and then you look back and 665 00:42:46.840 --> 00:42:51.840 you're like, okay, So, like we have a SEC performer, And 666 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:55.760 I would say the SEC is like the premiere Conference for college, Like you're 667 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:00.440 facing the best competition like day and day out. And then you have Chase 668 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:04.920 Davis who was in the PAC twelve at Arizona, And you know, you 669 00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.039 look at Davis and you're like, okay, Like the data was like super 670 00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:13.199 good in college, Like the stuff he put up was ridiculous, Like he 671 00:43:13.280 --> 00:43:16.800 had an awesome year, He made significant strides with contact, did not chase 672 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:20.360 at all. I mean, so then you look and you're like, okay, 673 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:23.400 So Davis one oh eight ninth percentile in college with metal a ninety one 674 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:29.159 seven average TV. You go to Werner he was a one oh six nine 675 00:43:29.280 --> 00:43:31.679 and a ninety point seven average, So they're not far off from a power 676 00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:37.000 standpoint, but Davis just had like significantly better contact. Werner was like a 677 00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:39.760 seventy percent contact in eighty two percent zone in college, and then you go 678 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:44.199 to Chase Davis and it's like, okay, eighty percent and then eighty nine 679 00:43:44.239 --> 00:43:46.360 percent in zone, which is nuts. But you see in pro ball like 680 00:43:46.400 --> 00:43:50.519 a completely different thing, and so you have to just kind of wonder in 681 00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:52.679 your mind, like what are they going to be? Like the game's just 682 00:43:52.719 --> 00:43:57.800 a lot different. So yeah, it's it's not crazy, but you know, 683 00:43:57.840 --> 00:44:00.960 if i'm I'm probably going to pass on Check Davison. Yeah, depending 684 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:02.960 on where he goes, Like, I think I take him in like the 685 00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:07.519 twenties range, twenty thirties ranges, bet on him where you can just get 686 00:44:07.559 --> 00:44:10.880 so much cheaper, which is wild. So yeah, it's nice. Like 687 00:44:12.079 --> 00:44:15.440 I think Warner's just a guy. Yeah, it's tricky, And then you 688 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.280 know, talk about stuff on a podcast and maybe some of my league mates 689 00:44:19.519 --> 00:44:21.960 catch wind of some events. So then then I got to be like, 690 00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:24.440 well, maybe I do got to take him twenty before one of these other 691 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:29.599 jerks. Does you know? One thing that is that we talked about before 692 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:34.880 Nate about A and M guys, is that Texas A and M their collegiate 693 00:44:34.920 --> 00:44:38.679 approach is kind of like what I preach, which is don't swing the bat, 694 00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:44.519 and that's like a programmatic thing for them, and he doesn't want him 695 00:44:44.519 --> 00:44:46.440 to swing the bat. How does that make any sense? It's better when 696 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.440 you don't swing. It's one of those counterintuitive things, but that's that's what 697 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.920 all the math says, and I kind of trust the math, and I 698 00:44:55.079 --> 00:44:59.760 wonder It's one thing that we've talked about, is there might be a study 699 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:02.760 there looking at A and M bats or other bats that kind of have that 700 00:45:02.880 --> 00:45:07.400 approach in college. How much does that approach change when they come to pro 701 00:45:07.519 --> 00:45:12.639 ball, where you've got a new organization telling you different things. The players 702 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:16.440 are kind of doing it more for themselves in their career and seeing which guys 703 00:45:16.719 --> 00:45:22.000 change that approach and up their chase or up their swing percentages in pro ball 704 00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:28.079 from a program like AMM, which is pretty notorious for very low swing rates. 705 00:45:28.119 --> 00:45:32.079 And it's something that I'm curious about and wonder. I really don't know 706 00:45:32.119 --> 00:45:37.440 which way it plays into their development. Does it help, does it prepare 707 00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:43.119 them better for facing minor league pitching or is it setting them up for a 708 00:45:43.679 --> 00:45:45.360 harder learning curve? I don't know. Yeah, it's an interesting thing to 709 00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:49.639 think about, for sure, And every org is so different. Every college 710 00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:52.480 is so different. It's like sometimes like players have to be in the right 711 00:45:52.519 --> 00:45:55.440 place the right time to succeed, which is interesting to think about. But 712 00:45:57.039 --> 00:45:59.800 some guys are going to be better suited for better orgs and better teams. 713 00:45:59.840 --> 00:46:04.519 But you have to wonder like those guys that like notoriously low swing rates like 714 00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:07.440 schools like you mentioned, Like with Werner, I mean, he swung. 715 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:13.280 See his swing rate last year in college it was forty percent, so that's 716 00:46:13.599 --> 00:46:19.599 just pretty conservative overall. And then swing rate professionally, curious if it jumped 717 00:46:19.639 --> 00:46:22.480 or if it's gonna be like a egg. We're talking like this was the 718 00:46:22.519 --> 00:46:25.320 same season. Basically, it's like how long how the swing rate was identical? 719 00:46:25.360 --> 00:46:29.000 It was forty and a half percent for both. But the interesting thing, 720 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:31.800 Yeah, but the contact ra jumped. Like I mentioned, it was 721 00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:35.800 like seventy percent overall, it was seventy nine percent pro ball, which is 722 00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:39.800 just nuts. So yeah, I mean that's uh, just pretty pretty spectacular 723 00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:43.840 what Werner did as a pro. And I'm curious if it can stick. 724 00:46:44.000 --> 00:46:45.119 He's good. I think he's gonna get an aggressive push. He may be 725 00:46:45.119 --> 00:46:49.079 in double A to begin next year. I wouldn't be shocked not to probably 726 00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:52.519 probably in High A and then Double A by mid season. But I forget 727 00:46:52.519 --> 00:46:54.280 that Columbia single A. I'm used to Greenville be in High A, and 728 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.920 so Columbia's is low A. So yeah, he'll be uh. I think 729 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:02.360 he's gonna be pushed aggressively and hopefully he can succeed. It's interesting things to 730 00:47:02.400 --> 00:47:07.480 think about during first year player drafts. Chris, I had noticed that you 731 00:47:07.679 --> 00:47:10.119 had, well, I mean, the middle of the top one thousand list 732 00:47:10.239 --> 00:47:15.320 is fairly high, right, but you had Rangers prospect Marcos Torres five O 733 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:21.159 three on your list. He was my Ranger bat beside selection this year, 734 00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.960 in part because I was told that when I watched him, he had an 735 00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:30.519 outlier trait and that I would blatantly see what the outlier trait was. And 736 00:47:30.760 --> 00:47:32.719 Chris, I did not see it. I did not know. I don't 737 00:47:32.760 --> 00:47:37.400 know what the outlier trait was, but I just saw I saw him on 738 00:47:37.440 --> 00:47:39.039 your list here, and I was wondering if maybe you could help me, 739 00:47:39.239 --> 00:47:45.280 if you had any idea what that outlier trait might be. I have absolutely 740 00:47:45.920 --> 00:47:51.719 no clue what. Okay, I had wondered. I had wandered, and 741 00:47:51.719 --> 00:47:57.119 I granted a limited amount of broadcast to see. But I had wondered if 742 00:47:57.159 --> 00:48:00.000 it was like Chase trade stuff, because I don't know if I saw him 743 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:02.199 we're gonna pitch outside of his south But they said you would see it by 744 00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.519 watching, Like, I don't know, it feels like it'd be something that 745 00:48:05.679 --> 00:48:10.239 was outlier mechanical. I mean, like, I don't see I don't see 746 00:48:10.280 --> 00:48:14.400 anything he has. When we had talked about him, he has kind of 747 00:48:14.440 --> 00:48:20.559 the there's a little bit of the sort of like like the the Japanese guys 748 00:48:20.559 --> 00:48:22.920 that will come over lefties that were kind of like be leaning towards first base 749 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:25.280 as they start to swing, you know, start moving in the direction. 750 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:29.199 He's got a bit of that to him. But I didn't I didn't think 751 00:48:29.239 --> 00:48:31.119 that that was the outlier trait that I was supposed to be looking for. 752 00:48:31.320 --> 00:48:35.800 No. Now, I'm just watching a video of him mashing opposite field home 753 00:48:35.880 --> 00:48:39.199 run at the complex right now. Like he's a pretty unique profile and the 754 00:48:39.239 --> 00:48:43.599 power speed. Yeah, he's small, a little bit of a smaller. 755 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:45.920 He looks smaller on film and he's looked at six three, So I don't 756 00:48:46.039 --> 00:48:50.559 I don't really know, like yeah, and he was just he was a 757 00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:52.039 guy that I just sort of had brought up, like I wanna watch this 758 00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:54.920 guy and see what this is about. I ain't like, I ain't advised 759 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:58.239 and the preaching. Then we go out and get a bunch of shares at 760 00:48:58.239 --> 00:49:01.400 this juncture. But yeah, yeah, certainly I think he's like a watch 761 00:49:01.480 --> 00:49:05.119 guy. Like okay, like with the with the ranking of him, it's 762 00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:07.079 like, okay, let's watch this guy closely, see what he does in 763 00:49:07.599 --> 00:49:10.800 you know, full season ball, and then we can kind of go from 764 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:14.599 there. It's like one of those things where you're like be ready to jump 765 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:19.400 on him if he does continue the success going into you know, full season. 766 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.559 And we saw a little bit of just ten games and it wasn't great. 767 00:49:22.719 --> 00:49:24.079 It was ten games, So I'm not pretty much stock into that. 768 00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.039 Yeah, And you know, like I've I've said before here too, like 769 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.639 I just kind of pride myself on if anything, this podcast is just going 770 00:49:30.679 --> 00:49:35.840 to be a little bit informational and give me some information about some players that 771 00:49:36.320 --> 00:49:39.719 maybe we don't hear a lot about other places. But there was a Matt 772 00:49:39.719 --> 00:49:45.719 and I think Matt we both came together on Alan Castro. Right, I 773 00:49:45.760 --> 00:49:49.559 want to ask you about Alan Castro Chris, because I know that you have 774 00:49:49.679 --> 00:49:53.480 seen a good amount of him, but I think the generic take for Matt 775 00:49:53.519 --> 00:49:57.760 and I was like, this, this is a guy who just seems maybe 776 00:49:57.800 --> 00:50:02.559 a bit undersold, maybe in that like all numbers or certain traits to point 777 00:50:02.599 --> 00:50:07.519 at as being like super outlier, but just a guy that on the tape 778 00:50:07.599 --> 00:50:10.360 at least to me, just impresses. It's just a very solid kind of 779 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:15.519 all around like might be a major leader, a sort of prospect. Yeah. 780 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:17.960 I've said that from like the first day I saw them, And I 781 00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:22.519 first saw him with Salem when they were in Colombia, so when he was 782 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:24.559 still in in single A and I was like, dang, why is nobody 783 00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:29.719 talking about this guy? And not even people like in the Red Sox circles 784 00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.400 really talking about him at all either, And he just kind of stood out 785 00:50:32.400 --> 00:50:37.000 to me as like a pretty impressive athlete in the field with the bat, 786 00:50:37.119 --> 00:50:40.239 like he doesn't even though he doesn't like he doesn't like grade out or get 787 00:50:40.239 --> 00:50:45.400 a bunch of speed stuff, Like he's athletically he seems like you said, 788 00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:49.760 very yeah, yeah, And I mean he's a switch hitter, like he 789 00:50:50.400 --> 00:50:52.679 likes to swing us from both sides too. I mean he was a fun 790 00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:57.280 one to watch. Yeah, and the numbers don't look great like as a 791 00:50:58.199 --> 00:51:00.920 right handed bat last year, but I still really like the swing, Like 792 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:05.199 obviously like the swing's more natural from the left side. He looks better than 793 00:51:05.239 --> 00:51:08.239 the left and shows. But I thought he's fine right handed, just hasn't 794 00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:12.599 really shown h like numbers wise. But I think he's a pretty good player. 795 00:51:12.599 --> 00:51:16.000 And I don't think anybody's talking about him enough. Salem's a notoriously like 796 00:51:16.119 --> 00:51:20.599 pitcher friendly park and he saw that with a lot of guys they've come up, 797 00:51:20.639 --> 00:51:23.880 and you know, it wasn't like a huge power boost for Castro when 798 00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:29.199 he jumped to Greenville, and Greenville is like kind of a neutral park, 799 00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:32.119 but like he sprays a lot of balls in the gap, Like he had 800 00:51:32.199 --> 00:51:36.679 thirty one doubles last year in one hundred and twelve game, which is solid. 801 00:51:37.000 --> 00:51:39.119 He had four triples, seven home runs. He can steal bases, 802 00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:43.519 he's got a pretty good eye at the plate, and it's going to take 803 00:51:43.559 --> 00:51:46.559 a walk. I don't know. I just I really believe that Castro might 804 00:51:46.599 --> 00:51:51.159 just be a he profiles like as a fourth outfield type that's a major leaguer 805 00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:52.559 and that's kind of what we're looking for with these guys. And so, 806 00:51:53.039 --> 00:51:57.360 yeah, Castro's very underrated, a guy like a lot. Yeah, I 807 00:51:57.400 --> 00:52:00.880 think that's where we both landed on him as like we're not I'm sure that 808 00:52:00.000 --> 00:52:05.199 it all rounds up into a regular, but guy looks like he's a major 809 00:52:05.280 --> 00:52:10.239 leaguer on that trajectory. He was a fun one to watch. Yeah. 810 00:52:10.280 --> 00:52:15.239 And then because you get out to these games and I saw you put Hayden 811 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.639 Mowens eight thirteen on your list and you talk to people, there wasn't there 812 00:52:19.639 --> 00:52:22.000 wasn't a lot on video. I think two outings from Mowens. And we 813 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:25.519 had talked about how he was a very highly touted prep arm I think he 814 00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:30.440 was well number two, perfect game, left handed picture of that class. 815 00:52:30.639 --> 00:52:34.119 Yeah, but I was just curious if you if you've heard any talk about 816 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.039 about Mowens here, who's rostered in zero percent of leagues but a major list 817 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:42.679 and was super impressive Matt and I in the very short bit that we got 818 00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:45.159 to watch with him. Yeah, and there's obviously not a lot, Like 819 00:52:45.239 --> 00:52:50.639 you said, it's a very small pro sample. He got a couple three 820 00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:53.920 innings in Salem and a couple of the complex. But he's one that I 821 00:52:53.920 --> 00:52:59.440 shouldn't struck everybody out. Yeah. Yeah, it was like a I think 822 00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:02.519 you're right. He literally struck out like every patter that he faced pretty much. 823 00:53:02.639 --> 00:53:07.360 It was a fifty per kraid and single hay and sixty three at the 824 00:53:07.400 --> 00:53:09.800 complex. Stupid. Yeah. Yeah. The reports have been kind of mixed 825 00:53:09.800 --> 00:53:14.000 because there's not been a lot on him. There's not been he hasn't been 826 00:53:14.000 --> 00:53:17.159 seeing a lot, and you know, I do think that he's probably in 827 00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:22.000 Greenville this year. So he's one that I should get a lot of looks 828 00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:25.000 at. Some of the guys with socks prospects think he's a reliever. I'm 829 00:53:25.000 --> 00:53:29.119 not sure. I'll be interested to see, like can he actually throw innings? 830 00:53:29.159 --> 00:53:31.159 Like do they actually let him start? I think that he could. 831 00:53:31.639 --> 00:53:36.840 We'll see. Obviously, the injuries have been a major issue for him, 832 00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:40.960 and the durability will be something that he needs to prove. The body's interesting. 833 00:53:42.199 --> 00:53:44.960 He's not like a huge guy, doesn't have a ton of projectability, 834 00:53:45.239 --> 00:53:50.639 but he's like low mid nineties fastball. He's got the slider that's in the 835 00:53:50.960 --> 00:53:54.639 load to mid eighties that's kind of a sweeper shape. It was a really 836 00:53:54.679 --> 00:53:59.920 good pitch in college and obviously probably what he's getting most of his strikeouts on 837 00:54:00.079 --> 00:54:02.559 the small sample. He does slow to change up, but not often. 838 00:54:02.679 --> 00:54:07.199 So I'm curious to see, like where do they go with him next year? 839 00:54:07.239 --> 00:54:08.000 Like do they let him start? Do they build him up in the 840 00:54:08.000 --> 00:54:12.599 bullpen? Yeah, he's an interesting one to watch for me, just because 841 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:15.800 I think that there's some intriguing stuff here. It's just like, what's the 842 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.000 role and like what's the health look like? Could you do me a favor 843 00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:22.239 and if you get any good nuggets on him, will you just DM me 844 00:54:22.320 --> 00:54:27.719 and hit me up at first? All right? Sweet? Fantastic. The 845 00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:30.639 one little the one little bit that we got to see of him on video, 846 00:54:30.719 --> 00:54:35.400 it really looked like he had one of those outlier release point and movement 847 00:54:35.440 --> 00:54:40.119 profile combinations that, especially considering for a lefty sitting in the low nineties, 848 00:54:40.199 --> 00:54:45.079 like that could really really play. And that gets me to the next one 849 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:47.480 I wanted to ask about. We have chatted a little bit about will Dion 850 00:54:47.800 --> 00:54:53.840 earlier, and he's another one kind of undersized lefty who at least up to 851 00:54:53.880 --> 00:55:00.119 this point, has performed exceptionally well in the minor leagues, but has velocity 852 00:55:00.159 --> 00:55:07.599 concerns, has some questions about projectability and can he have the kind of innings 853 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:12.679 built up and will Cleveland even let him continue to start as he rises up. 854 00:55:13.039 --> 00:55:17.840 But he's one that I'm pretty curious about, just both because his release 855 00:55:17.920 --> 00:55:24.639 point in his sort of Kershawian delivery, it's definitely given guys hard looks even 856 00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:30.039 though he's not running the fastball up there at any any impressive velocities. And 857 00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:35.880 the rest of his portfolio to me looks like it's a you know, four 858 00:55:35.960 --> 00:55:39.679 or five with maybe upside for more as a as a starter in the major 859 00:55:39.760 --> 00:55:44.760 leagues. And so he's one that I'm really interested. You ranked pretty aggressively, 860 00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.920 i think compared to a lot of other people, and it's one that 861 00:55:47.159 --> 00:55:51.119 I still think he's flying a bit under the radar but reminds me a little 862 00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:54.039 bit of Mulleins in a lot of ways. Yeah, and he's quite interesting, 863 00:55:54.320 --> 00:56:00.320 just a unique profile. It's like Clayton Kershall like literally made up over 864 00:56:00.880 --> 00:56:06.760 in the delivery just to a t. It's deceptive. The fastball sits eighty 865 00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:09.280 eight, like that's the concern. It's like, okay, like how does 866 00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:13.880 this play? And it's played like as he's moved up. It's just kept 867 00:56:13.880 --> 00:56:16.639 playing, which is interesting. He's still striking guys out at solid clips. 868 00:56:16.679 --> 00:56:22.679 It's a really nasty curveball. It's a solid change up, and the change 869 00:56:22.719 --> 00:56:25.480 up I think this made really good progress. And you know, I don't 870 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:30.880 know. He's quite interesting, like an enigma in a sense that like I 871 00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:36.519 just really question, like can the profile work? And it's just keeps working 872 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:40.000 over and over and over again. He's just thrown innings, he gets out, 873 00:56:40.159 --> 00:56:44.960 he gets strikeouts, he commands it well. So yeah, I hope 874 00:56:44.960 --> 00:56:47.519 that we'll see him in Triple A this year. He'll be twenty four at 875 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:51.480 the start of the season, so it feels like the Triple A is the 876 00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:54.320 next proving grounds for him and to see, like, is this guy a 877 00:56:54.360 --> 00:57:00.119 major league arm And you know, he certainly I think makes the majors in 878 00:57:00.159 --> 00:57:02.400 a starter's role. I don't know. He's just really unique and like an 879 00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:07.440 outlier profile in that sense. One of the things that I've read recently from 880 00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:12.000 a guy I think he did some writing at fangrass a while back, Eli 881 00:57:12.159 --> 00:57:15.880 Ben Perratt, I think say his name is. He wrote on his substack 882 00:57:16.119 --> 00:57:22.119 a while back about how velocity doesn't matter. Yeah, that's hyperbole, and 883 00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:24.800 he, I think was using it to make a broader point. But that 884 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:30.440 point, I think was a really interesting one, that velocity really is sort 885 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:36.760 of the smallest piece of your overall profile, and yet we probably placed too 886 00:57:36.840 --> 00:57:40.480 much emphasis on it. And guys like Will Dionn are a real interesting test 887 00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:45.480 case for that, where he's saying a prochangle and IVB are actually far more 888 00:57:45.519 --> 00:57:51.480 important towards can your fastball play in the minors or in the majors, And 889 00:57:51.519 --> 00:57:54.519 it's not so much about the velocity, it's all the other components, your 890 00:57:54.519 --> 00:57:59.840 extension, your horizontal proch angle, your vertical approchangle, and of course your 891 00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.320 and doce vertical break. And dion is kind of an example of that that 892 00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:07.599 I'm super curious and personally and I've fallen for this before. I was really 893 00:58:07.639 --> 00:58:09.679 in on Tommy Romero a couple of years ago, who's another one of these 894 00:58:09.719 --> 00:58:15.159 guys that dominated Double A, dominated Triple A with one of these low, 895 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:19.679 low approach angle, super high spin fastballs, and then it ticked. The 896 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:23.039 stuff ticked back just slightly, and he got lit up and is sort of 897 00:58:23.360 --> 00:58:27.960 a non entity now. And so I think the tightrope is there, but 898 00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:30.559 I'm still really interested in these kinds of guys and can they make it work 899 00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:35.320 at velocity bands that we don't usually see. Yeah, I mean, it's 900 00:58:35.440 --> 00:58:39.039 be interesting to see, like how this profile does play. It's just so 901 00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:44.400 rare to see sub ninety starters like work and maybe he's an outlier. There's 902 00:58:44.400 --> 00:58:47.920 always outlier cases, and in Dion's case, he'd be an outlier in a 903 00:58:47.960 --> 00:58:52.239 lot of ways of being a very undersized tarter, having a sub ninety mile 904 00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:57.360 hour fastball, like all those things. But man, it's hard to argue 905 00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:00.480 against what he's done so far to this point in his career. Aesthetically, 906 00:59:00.559 --> 00:59:04.039 I love that motion. It's cool. Yeah, yeah, it's very unique. 907 00:59:04.039 --> 00:59:07.960 And it's just literally Matt's number one pitching selection in our B side draft. 908 00:59:08.079 --> 00:59:12.280 Kaiwai Tang, Chris, you put him at age sixty one. I 909 00:59:12.360 --> 00:59:16.360 find Kaiwaitang to be absolutely fascinating. And this you know, we're playing dynasty, 910 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:20.760 right, you're trying to evaluate and value players, but this there's also 911 00:59:20.840 --> 00:59:23.519 like a poker aspect to it, and you're playing your opponents too, right, 912 00:59:23.719 --> 00:59:27.920 So like, riddle me this, Chris, why why is Kaiwai Tang 913 00:59:28.000 --> 00:59:34.320 only rostered in six percent of leagues. When fantasy owners love strikeouts, will 914 00:59:34.599 --> 00:59:39.199 totally ignore profile killing walk rates to chase strikeouts. Tang has led the minor 915 00:59:39.239 --> 00:59:44.119 leagues and strikeouts for the last three years. You can't use walks as a 916 00:59:44.199 --> 00:59:46.440 knock, in my opinion, if you want to be consistent, you general 917 00:59:46.679 --> 00:59:52.000 ten Stapper dune that I like to argue against, and you can't really velocity. 918 00:59:52.320 --> 00:59:57.880 He doesn't throw that soft. He's like one mile per hour softer than 919 00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:01.440 average my major league fasta. So like, what what what do you think 920 01:00:01.480 --> 01:00:07.039 here? Why is Tang not getting dynasty love that that so many other profiles 921 01:00:07.119 --> 01:00:10.280 like this seem to get. What do you think? It's a good question. 922 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:14.119 I mean, he does do a lot of things. Well, I 923 01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:17.360 really think that age is probably a factor and right or wrong, Like I 924 01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:21.079 think people are just going to look at you and say, oh, he 925 01:00:21.239 --> 01:00:24.039 was twenty four, he's twenty five now, and he was in double and 926 01:00:24.119 --> 01:00:29.280 triple A at twenty four, and then naturally, like it's just going to 927 01:00:29.320 --> 01:00:31.280 be you know, people are going to write him off, and you know, 928 01:00:31.320 --> 01:00:35.840 the profile like it's intrigued me more and more. Kind of like the 929 01:00:35.880 --> 01:00:40.159 more I've looked into who he is as a pitcher, and you're right. 930 01:00:40.199 --> 01:00:44.760 You look at the arsenal like he's got pitches across the board, like he 931 01:00:44.800 --> 01:00:47.800 throws a sinker and a four seamer. He throws a cutter. The fast 932 01:00:47.800 --> 01:00:52.199 I mean the for seam, like is ninety two, ninety three sinkers right 933 01:00:52.239 --> 01:00:58.159 in that range as well. So like average MLB four seamer last year was 934 01:00:58.280 --> 01:01:01.360 ninety four and yeah, not far off. And that includes relievers too. 935 01:01:01.400 --> 01:01:06.639 Maybe this is incorrect to me. Maybe round down a smidge for starters. 936 01:01:06.639 --> 01:01:09.719 It's about average velocity. Yeah, he's right. I wonder if the I 937 01:01:09.760 --> 01:01:13.440 wonder if the body has something to do with it too. My man looks 938 01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:16.440 like he loves candy bars and cheeseburgers. That makes me like him even more. 939 01:01:16.519 --> 01:01:21.400 I don't he's listed at two sixty. I wonder if it might be 940 01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.440 a little higher. We'll see, but yeah, yeah, I mean, 941 01:01:24.599 --> 01:01:28.960 you look, it's a it's I don't know, Like the movement profile is 942 01:01:29.000 --> 01:01:32.880 interesting, Like it's a really low IVB fastball. It does get some horizontal 943 01:01:32.960 --> 01:01:38.599 movement to the vertical approach angle is it's pretty solid. But he doesn't miss 944 01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:43.639 bats at all with the fastball and what he does with the cutter and the 945 01:01:43.760 --> 01:01:46.760 slider, and so one thing that I was saying is he's got six pitches 946 01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:51.239 that he throws more than like eight percent of the time. And I was 947 01:01:51.280 --> 01:01:53.039 like, you should drop the four seamer. He doesn't. It's not like 948 01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:59.639 he's commanding that any better than his other fastball. And if he throws fewer 949 01:02:00.320 --> 01:02:02.199 of pitches, if that helps him tighten up his command even a little bit, 950 01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:06.000 why not. I mean, I was like, drop the curveball, 951 01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:09.679 drop the four seing fastball, and eat with your cutter slider, two seam 952 01:02:09.800 --> 01:02:14.000 combo and then mix in a change up every now and then, Like I 953 01:02:14.079 --> 01:02:19.159 think that four pitch mix is a heavy ground ball, gets a decent amount 954 01:02:19.159 --> 01:02:22.519 of strikeout kind of play, and if he gets any kind of run. 955 01:02:22.599 --> 01:02:24.440 In San Francisco, I was like, man, this guy's gonna go from 956 01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:30.119 six percent to sixty percent owned pretty quickly. You know, there are lots 957 01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:35.239 of warts still, and I'm the first to complain about a guy's command as 958 01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.360 something that's going to hold them back. But he's just one that I was 959 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:42.159 like, the guy literally led the minor leagues in strikeouts the past three years. 960 01:02:42.480 --> 01:02:45.840 Like buy a decent amount, and that's hard to do, Like you 961 01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:50.440 have to have some skills to do that. And he's a knocking on the 962 01:02:50.480 --> 01:02:52.760 door now, So he's an interesting one to me. Yeah, I mean 963 01:02:52.760 --> 01:02:54.239 he is interesting. He's got to throw more strikes, like that's really the 964 01:02:54.719 --> 01:02:59.719 biggest thing. So, I mean, I don't know. It's an interestingtioning 965 01:02:59.760 --> 01:03:07.320 pro to watch. If you had no access to data, stats, anything, 966 01:03:07.519 --> 01:03:12.639 you show up at the field and you figure out, can you spot 967 01:03:12.840 --> 01:03:17.480 who's the best player on the field? And what's your process about going to 968 01:03:17.599 --> 01:03:23.079 do that? So Chris posing that question to you, if you're ignoring the 969 01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:28.280 data side, which I know you're well versed in and dive into, and 970 01:03:28.320 --> 01:03:30.400 you just show up at the yard, who are you looking at? Like 971 01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:35.480 what what's sort of the mental model that you're using to say that's the best 972 01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:37.880 player on this field? Yeah, And I try to do that. I 973 01:03:37.920 --> 01:03:39.239 try to get like a clean slate, like if it's a new player, 974 01:03:39.599 --> 01:03:43.719 like I haven't seen live. That's hard because you have so many biases. 975 01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:45.199 But I try to, Like every time there's a new team in town, 976 01:03:45.280 --> 01:03:49.559 like I'll try to go in like with a clean bias of like or like 977 01:03:49.639 --> 01:03:52.559 no bias. I guess of who these guys are. But it's interesting because, 978 01:03:52.599 --> 01:03:55.519 like I'll typically I'm on the field pre game, so I typically try 979 01:03:55.519 --> 01:03:59.480 to like just kind of see what they're doing, like close up their size, 980 01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:00.880 like the kind of things, so I want to see, like what 981 01:04:01.000 --> 01:04:04.840 kind of person are they that they care. There's there's always guys that just 982 01:04:04.840 --> 01:04:06.880 don't give a rip that are out there, which is crazy, Like you 983 01:04:06.920 --> 01:04:11.599 see the Anthony Rendole and stuff like, which is wild. And there's more 984 01:04:11.599 --> 01:04:15.000 players out there like that that you know, just don't enjoy the game as 985 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:16.679 much. But you can always see the guys that enjoy the game just being 986 01:04:16.719 --> 01:04:20.239 out there in warm ups like they taking it seriously but also having a good 987 01:04:20.320 --> 01:04:26.079 time all those things, looking at the projectability of like the frames and all 988 01:04:26.079 --> 01:04:28.800 that stuff. Like you know, I mean, there's always the outliers, 989 01:04:28.840 --> 01:04:31.800 but I'm like five eight and a half. So like when when you see 990 01:04:31.800 --> 01:04:34.360 guys that are shorter than you and smaller than you, it's like, okay, 991 01:04:34.519 --> 01:04:38.719 like I'm not sure how this works. Like you know, Jet Williams 992 01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:42.559 is an outlier. I guess he's tiny, but you know, you have 993 01:04:42.719 --> 01:04:45.679 like the Chase Madrath who is shorter than me, but he's two hundred and 994 01:04:45.719 --> 01:04:49.159 ten pounds. It's like, okay, like spotty just isn't gonna work, 995 01:04:49.559 --> 01:04:53.119 I don't think. But they're like you said, there's always the rare exception. 996 01:04:53.280 --> 01:04:55.440 So like I want to look at that stuff pre game, like take 997 01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.320 notes and then like kind of watch him in the dugout too, like during 998 01:04:58.320 --> 01:05:00.599 the game, like you can certainly see like leadership qualities and all that stuff. 999 01:05:00.639 --> 01:05:03.000 So I'm kind of watching some of that, like what the players are 1000 01:05:03.000 --> 01:05:06.239 doing, like how they're interacting, Like what do they do when they strike 1001 01:05:06.320 --> 01:05:10.679 out, like they just pissed off or they going in there and looking at 1002 01:05:10.719 --> 01:05:14.199 tape and trying to learn and be better, and like those guys I want 1003 01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:16.440 to bet on. But yeah, from like a I guess performance standpoint, 1004 01:05:16.519 --> 01:05:20.239 like pitchers obviously, you know you're watching like I'm watching how they command it. 1005 01:05:20.440 --> 01:05:24.000 You know, how are they sequencing the pitches? You know, what 1006 01:05:24.079 --> 01:05:28.440 are what's the velocity like, and then kind of the the others like what's 1007 01:05:28.480 --> 01:05:30.760 the stuff like, you know, how does it play? How are they 1008 01:05:30.800 --> 01:05:33.199 actually and are they actually using it like in a way that's useful, like 1009 01:05:33.239 --> 01:05:36.440 in a sequence way, and so you know but then you go run to 1010 01:05:36.440 --> 01:05:41.079 the issues of like there's orgs that are just making guys do certain things. 1011 01:05:41.119 --> 01:05:44.559 Like I saw above a Chandler like three times this year, and he the 1012 01:05:44.599 --> 01:05:47.480 pirates made him throw a slider the second pitch of every bat, Like it's 1013 01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:51.039 just stupid stuff like that. This obviously like you pick up on, but 1014 01:05:51.079 --> 01:05:55.280 like the org was making him do that just to try to develop that pitch 1015 01:05:55.320 --> 01:05:58.800 further. It's like teams knew that was coming, so like then he's probably 1016 01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:01.239 trying to like finagle to pitch a little bit to like make sure like he's 1017 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:04.119 not you know, he doesn't want to leave that pitch in this zone when 1018 01:06:04.119 --> 01:06:09.039 they know it's coming. So it certainly messes with the data and stuff. 1019 01:06:09.119 --> 01:06:12.760 And there's probably a lot more instances like that than than we even know. 1020 01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.960 So like if you can pick up on that or if you know them at 1021 01:06:15.960 --> 01:06:18.440 the insight, then that's great. But it I think that that's where just 1022 01:06:18.519 --> 01:06:23.119 the stat line stuff just becomes so useless when it's like, you know, 1023 01:06:23.239 --> 01:06:26.760 like all these guys are just working on so many things and so like you 1024 01:06:26.840 --> 01:06:30.440 have to be like so aware of what's going on, and it's just there's 1025 01:06:30.480 --> 01:06:31.599 so many things to pick up on. It's kind of wild. So I 1026 01:06:31.679 --> 01:06:35.079 think I'm ranning probably can keep randing more about that, but yeah, no, 1027 01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:39.920 yeah, I totally agree. And that's why I like to watch binge, 1028 01:06:39.920 --> 01:06:43.679 watch pictures and try to highlight some of those things that I pick up 1029 01:06:43.679 --> 01:06:45.400 on and stuff when I've done like the picture of you stuff, because there 1030 01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:48.199 is some guys are doing a lot of that, I think, or or 1031 01:06:48.400 --> 01:06:51.320 you're wondering if they are. And then there's there's some that's like, Okay, 1032 01:06:51.320 --> 01:06:55.000 you're not doing any of that, you're not pitching to any sort of 1033 01:06:55.000 --> 01:06:58.760 development here at all. Then for us trying to decipher which is which, 1034 01:06:58.800 --> 01:07:02.960 and I think that that plays especially with with pictures, Yeah for sure. 1035 01:07:03.119 --> 01:07:06.000 Yeah. I mean batters are a different beast because like so many different things 1036 01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:09.840 can work. Like I don't think there's like one like everybody wants to like 1037 01:07:09.880 --> 01:07:13.480 critique swings, but like there's not one right or wrong way to do it. 1038 01:07:13.599 --> 01:07:15.000 You know, as long as the barrels, you know, through the 1039 01:07:15.119 --> 01:07:18.000 song, your hands are in the right place, Like you can look a 1040 01:07:18.039 --> 01:07:23.920 million different ways and obviously work out. So so everybody crap, go ahead, 1041 01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:27.280 No, yeah, I'll definitely have my bias though with some hitters, 1042 01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:29.760 like if you do certain things, it's like I don't really want to make 1043 01:07:29.800 --> 01:07:32.679 bets on you, yeah, just because I've seen that that not work all 1044 01:07:32.679 --> 01:07:36.920 that great as you get to better pictures. But yeah, but your point, 1045 01:07:38.119 --> 01:07:41.000 like a lot of different things can work. Yeah, and that's just 1046 01:07:41.000 --> 01:07:43.840 the game of baseball, which is great. But like the chase, the 1047 01:07:43.880 --> 01:07:46.599 louder stuff with everybody like hate on. So I don't understand, like it's 1048 01:07:46.679 --> 01:07:49.800 it's just a short follow through. It's like his barrels in the zone so 1049 01:07:49.960 --> 01:07:54.719 long he's on plane consistently. Like it's just like seems so un informous to 1050 01:07:54.760 --> 01:07:57.719 look at and say his swing sucks, Like yeah, I don't understand that 1051 01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:00.400 narrative, to be honest. Yeah, it's also funny too with him in 1052 01:08:00.440 --> 01:08:05.199 particular, he only does that when he makes solid contact, Like you say, 1053 01:08:05.239 --> 01:08:10.599 him swinging this and it's a normal swing because like he's not stopping it 1054 01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.079 early. It's not taking anything away from his swing. It's just that the 1055 01:08:14.199 --> 01:08:18.079 impact of the ball on the bat like that is transferring all that energy and 1056 01:08:18.119 --> 01:08:20.720 so he can stop it short and just start running. You know. It's 1057 01:08:20.760 --> 01:08:25.920 like, yeah, it's a fine follow through. I've never understood that one 1058 01:08:26.000 --> 01:08:29.640 either, but I do think there's some good stuff that you can pick up 1059 01:08:29.640 --> 01:08:32.279 on though, you know, things that I was not very good. I 1060 01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:36.159 always tell meate like, I'm I was only good because I was bad. 1061 01:08:36.520 --> 01:08:42.039 I kept failing and learning, and I was I was one of those kids 1062 01:08:42.079 --> 01:08:44.880 who was like, I'm going to keep working out. I loved practice, 1063 01:08:44.960 --> 01:08:47.359 yeah, because I liked the getting better part, but it also meant that, 1064 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:50.640 like my swing wasn't very good, and so I had all these things 1065 01:08:50.640 --> 01:08:54.880 that I was always working on. And you have enough coaches and scouts and 1066 01:08:54.920 --> 01:08:57.439 everybody tell you like this is wrong, this is wrong, you need to 1067 01:08:57.479 --> 01:09:00.800 do this better. You start to see those things in other people. And 1068 01:09:00.039 --> 01:09:03.319 it's kind of why they say, like Barry Bonds terrible hitting coach, because 1069 01:09:03.359 --> 01:09:06.840 he's like, I'm fifty five and I'm a better hitter than you, all 1070 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:12.560 right now for that stint with the Marlins, and you kind of need somebody 1071 01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:15.199 who was like your Steven Votes, who was like, he wasn't a good 1072 01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:17.840 hitter, but he knew a lot about the game. And bringing that to 1073 01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:23.680 kind of analysis and spotting those mechanical flaws. I think that's a little bit 1074 01:09:23.680 --> 01:09:27.439 of what we're trying to highlight with some of the b siders. Yeah, 1075 01:09:27.520 --> 01:09:31.720 for sure. Where'd I played at Washington State? Oh nice, Yeah, 1076 01:09:31.720 --> 01:09:36.199 that's that's what that guy sat when I was bringing up some deep first year 1077 01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:41.800 player bats and I had like two Washington Huskies, had to hit on them 1078 01:09:41.840 --> 01:09:45.640 a little bit. Yeah. Yeah, But we got to play against a 1079 01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:48.199 lot of like pretty good players, you know. We like played against Garrett 1080 01:09:48.199 --> 01:09:55.199 Cole, Trevor Bauer, and yeah, that's got Trevor Bauer and Garrett Cole's 1081 01:09:55.359 --> 01:10:00.359 head mounted on the wall of his man cave because I got I got hits 1082 01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:03.079 off both of them at least. But yeah, Trevor Bower never got me 1083 01:10:03.079 --> 01:10:06.479 out. That's my that's my claim to fame there. Good one for one, 1084 01:10:06.560 --> 01:10:10.720 two walks, two walks, a couple steals. You got to play 1085 01:10:10.720 --> 01:10:14.319 against the pretty good guys and it was always fun the things you know, 1086 01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:17.439 like you say, Chris, we knew all these guys and their stats, 1087 01:10:17.439 --> 01:10:20.920 and then they show up at the field and then you see how it shows 1088 01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:25.760 up. And Trevor Bower is his own thing just as a as a person, 1089 01:10:26.119 --> 01:10:30.560 but watching him do things differently as a pitcher, you're like, oh, 1090 01:10:30.640 --> 01:10:35.399 that's why this sort of unassuming, non athletic looking six foot maybe Pitcher 1091 01:10:35.640 --> 01:10:40.600 is out there throwing one hundred and one on the mound because he's sort of 1092 01:10:40.680 --> 01:10:44.520 willing to do something totally different to anybody else, and he was I thought 1093 01:10:44.560 --> 01:10:46.720 the better picture of the two in college at least it was. Yeah, 1094 01:10:46.760 --> 01:10:51.159 they were nasty. I watched that team pretty closely, just because especially the 1095 01:10:51.199 --> 01:10:56.560 College World Series because I'm a South Carolina guy and obviously played in the final 1096 01:10:56.600 --> 01:10:59.960 that year. So man, they were. I still can't believe soccer On 1097 01:11:00.079 --> 01:11:06.439 to beat them with doing that. Colon Bauer, the Chris thank you man, 1098 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.960 man, you're welcome, thanks for joining us. Yeah, of course 1099 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:13.920 glad to do. Let's we'll let you get to bet unless you want to 1100 01:11:13.920 --> 01:11:16.880 stick around more. I just saw it over midnight, so yeah, there's 1101 01:11:17.279 --> 01:11:19.560 we want to hit any quick hits, I'm open to it, or we 1102 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:24.159 can we can wrap it up. I just have some real, real quick 1103 01:11:24.239 --> 01:11:27.960 questions for you. Just got to answer one word response, elaborate if you 1104 01:11:28.000 --> 01:11:32.800 want, but hitter's or pictures hitters? Come on, man, Yeah all 1105 01:11:32.880 --> 01:11:39.600 right? Would you rather your young hitting prospects be aggressive hitters or passive hitters, 1106 01:11:40.119 --> 01:11:45.199 aggressive talking about I don't like it. I don't want to like aggressive 1107 01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:46.359 or too passive. I don't want I don't want to like a thirty five 1108 01:11:46.359 --> 01:11:51.680 percent wing right, but I don't want a fifty right. Read Von Scooter 1109 01:11:53.000 --> 01:12:00.960 or Trevor McDonald. It's a Van Scotter. Oh yeah, you math, 1110 01:12:01.840 --> 01:12:08.279 Chris, Chris Man. This is great. Thank you. Anyone who's listening 1111 01:12:08.279 --> 01:12:11.640 to this show listens to you and reads you. But if I don't know 1112 01:12:11.640 --> 01:12:14.640 if you want to tell folks what you got going on or whatever, but 1113 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:16.279 if you do go for it, well you find all the work at the 1114 01:12:16.279 --> 01:12:19.520 times to dugout dot com, come hang out in the discord with us in 1115 01:12:19.600 --> 01:12:24.680 chat baseball all day. It's uh, literally a great place. So discord 1116 01:12:24.760 --> 01:12:28.800 discord is great and it's a What I appreciate, Chris, is that it's 1117 01:12:28.800 --> 01:12:33.439 an environment where we do have disagreements and we do learn from each other, 1118 01:12:33.560 --> 01:12:40.680 and it's it's very civil and educational and fun. Yeah, we all got 1119 01:12:40.680 --> 01:12:44.560 some player that's that we like to talk about a little bit more. And 1120 01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:46.680 uh, folks like to give us some crap for that, and I appreciate 1121 01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:50.039 that. But thank you, Chris. You have a good night, my 1122 01:12:50.520 --> 01:12:55.560 man. Yeah, you too. Appreciate you guys, all right later, 1123 01:12:55.840 --> 01:12:58.920 all right, Matt, So that was that was awesome. That was great. 1124 01:12:58.960 --> 01:13:02.520 Appreciate Chris coming on that. He's good, people's he's smart. He 1125 01:13:02.520 --> 01:13:05.800 he does the work, as he said, he's good. Yeah, much 1126 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:09.840 respect there. I don't know what we're gonna talk about next week, Matt. 1127 01:13:09.920 --> 01:13:14.800 I was wondering, we made it do like a little MLB B side 1128 01:13:15.159 --> 01:13:17.680 version sort of thing. We can do that. Maybe we'll do that, 1129 01:13:17.720 --> 01:13:23.000 but we'll get out of here. We'll let Chicago Chicago farmer take us out 1130 01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:27.960 and you will talk to you next time. He's five miles an hour riding 1131 01:13:28.159 --> 01:13:34.760 too his head. He hopped down first with the lumpbonius face, and on 1132 01:13:34.880 --> 01:13:45.399 the very next pitch he up and stole second face with greatst speed. He 1133 01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:51.880 wasn't born, but he had to do yes, uniforn