You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas.
I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now
trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other
victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway
murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together
with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a
researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social
media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner
in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly
and I'm Bill Thomas. I was about to mix it up and say I'm
Bill Thomas, but just to see how you would react, I could say,
and I'm Kristin Dilly. You think people would be confused. You are
the one with the velvet golden voice, and I'm definitely not velvet voiced,
so probably I don't think there would be any way to confuse the two of
us. I like your voice just fine, Bill Thomas, I sometimes do,
sometimes do other times not so much. I'd like you to refer to
me as Kristin Dilly throughout this entire podcast. It might be hard to remember.
Actually, I figured it would be a nice way to three off your
stride very first thing. Minute one. Yeah, consider me thrown. Yeah,
keep you on your toes a little bit. We are into oh how
many weeks into this whole new world of Colonial Parkway murders coverage? Are we
now three weeks? Four weeks? Oh, it's got to be four six
months a year. Yeah. Time flies when you're having fun. Yeah,
and not Bill Thomas time either, but actual regular time. You mean,
everything from January eighth, twenty twenty four forward is how we're measuring things.
I feel like it is honestly when I talk to people and they're like,
oh, yeah, how things man, I've been like since January eight,
things have been nuts everything for me. For Kristin Dilly, time is being
reckoned forward from January eight for me too. And then I also find myself
really annoyed because I see articles and I'll go back and I'll read them for
the first time, or perhaps so the fifth time. I'm still very troubled
by the amount of misinformation that was included with that press conference. I guess
it's up to people like us to set the record straight in terms of what's
gone on with the Colonial Parkray murders, our media partners and Blaine Pardoh and
so many people have come forward. But it just feels like we're pushing back
against a lot of misinformation that was put out there and just glossing over really
important aspects of this investigation, pretending that, oh, we didn't mention that
Alan Wade Wilmer was suspect number one, and the Keith call and Cassandra Haley
disappearance must have slipped our minds. Things like that, where you just say,
please, do we really have to play these games? I have said
before and I will continue to say it. I believe the FBI has a
bit of a transparency problem, and I really wish that they were willing to
come out set the record straight and say, hey, here's the information that
we gave, here's the information as it actually is. Please uptake your internal
systems to reflect this information and move forward from there. But we also know
the FBI does not like to admit that they're wrong, and from here we
shall proceed with us continuing to give you the real information that you need.
So one of the things that we wanted to give you a heads up about
is we really appreciate the very positive reaction we got to our two recent ask
us Anything episodes in the Colonial Parkway murders. We wanted to thank Robert Gray
for his excellent questions. We will be doing that again because obviously we're seeing
a lot of questions being asked on our social media pages mind over Murder on
Facebook and Colonial Parkway Murders especially seems to be very hot these days also on
Facebook. So we will be coming back and asking you for more questions and
also trying to go back through the many questions that people have asked over the
past month or so about the status of the Colonial Parkway murders investigations. Please
be on the lookout for that, and thank you so much for the great
feedback that we've gotten so far. And if we ever don't answer a question,
it is not that we are trying to withhold information. It is very
likely just that we don't have the information available to tell you. We do
not know it, but we are working very hard to get answers to everything
that you all have asked, because you're asking excellent, probing questions, and
so we thank you very much for that. As Bill said, please don't
consider this finger wagging moment when I say this, we did run into a
couple of problems. We've all got to be careful that we're not throwing out
accusations about living people who have lives and reputations and families and their potential linkage
to various aspects of the Colonial Parkway murders. We had a situation a couple
of weeks ago where someone was just throwing out a person's name. Now,
this person's alive and has friends in the community. His friends responded immediately,
and then he did too, within minutes. So that's how quickly the World
Wide Web works. It's one thing for us to put out a discussion point
about someone that's deceased. So I'm comfortable talking about Alan Wade Wilmer Senior,
the man's been dead since twenty seventeen, and other potential suspects who are no
longer with us. You can't slander or libel the day, but you can
damage the reputation of living people. So if you said, I think Bill
Thomas is involved in the Colonial Parkway murders. He's right in the middle of
this whole thing, and I think that guy's a murderer. You got to
be real careful about stuff like that. Kristin and I do moderate these social
media pages, but we also have lots of other things we're working on.
And quite frankly, I was horrified that someone was just going to throw someone's
name out there who was a friend of one of the victims, and we're
like, what is going on here? And I end up, in this
particular example, just hitting the high button because I don't want to see people
get sued here, and I don't want to see innocent people's reputations be damaged
by baseless accusations. Much in the same way you're not going to see us
offer theories about other living people. This is something that law enforcement has to
do exploring a lot of interesting options. You bet we are, and we're
talking to a lot of people in the Tidewater area in Lancaster and surrounding areas.
Absolutely, and it's very helpful and interesting. Some of it's frustrating to
hear about missed opportunities, but we're interested in exploring things, but we're not
interested in damaging people's reputations. So I appreciate the consideration. Try to be
a little bit thoughtful about how you might put forward an idea, could this
involve X, Y or Z without necessarily naming them, because they could easily
take offense exactly. And I think that's good practice, not just for our
website, but really for any Facebook page or Twitter page or anyplace else where
you're going to spend your time and energy. It's just really important to make
sure that we're being careful and thoughtful and civilized with our discourse. One of
the questions that Robert asked us on our Ask Us Anything episode, we said
we wanted to put a pin in because we would do a larger episode about
it later, was his question about whether or not Alan Wade Wilmer Senior seemed
to have any particular aggression or anger and hostility toward same sex couples in particular,
and so we wanted to take a little bit of time today and dig
into that question. There are several instances of potential aggression against same sex couples
in the Colonial Parkway murders, and so we wanted to spend a little bit
of time today kind of addressing that, seeing if we can parse together what
do we think if the question is does he have overt aggression? Let's talk
about it. Bill. I'll go ahead and turn the mic over to you
for a couple of minutes. Now that I've teed it up, what do
you think? It's an interesting question, Kristin. It really is, was
Alan Wade Wilmer Senior targeting same sex couples in the Colonial Parkway murders. It's
a provocative question, and it's not quite so crazy as it might sound at
first. There's some obvious things that are worth pointing out. First of all,
the first known victims in the Colonial Parkway murders are Kathy Thomas and Rebecca
Dowski, a lesbian couple. There's kind of two scenarios that could indicate Wilmer's
involvement in Kathy and Beckie's murder. Now, we don't know who the offender
is in Kathy and Beckee's murder. The FBI is still working this case actively,
and I know they are trying their best to figure out if they can
create a link between Wilmer and Kathy and Becky, who kick off the Colonial
Parkway murders as we know them. There's two different scenarios that I think are
worth talking about. One is we have these unconfirmed reports that Kathy and Becky
may have gone to the Yorktown Pub to grab something to eat that evening.
You may recall that in their autopsies they had ground beef and lettuce in their
systems. Now bread is digested very quickly. Ground beef and things like lettuce
roughage are not digested as quickly. But if you think about Kathy and Becky
having ground beef and lettuce in their stomachs, and you think about Williamsburg in
the nineteen eighties, where your late night and I put quotes around that dining
options are somewhat limited. You've only got three or four choices when you're into
the evening, say after eight o'clock. You got things like McDonald's, Taco
Bell, and places where you could get a hamburger like the Deli's, like
the Delis or the Yorktown Pub. Now there is a football game card from
McDonald's found in Kathy's car as well, which might indicate McDonald's, and that's
definitely a possibility. Then we have these unconfirmed reports that two women were seen
matching Kathy and Becky's descriptions at the Yorktown Pub now the Yorktown Pub. We've
talked about this a little bit before. I've only been there during the day,
and I didn't go there in the nineteen eighties. My understanding is there's
two different kinds of crowds there during the day, and there's a lot of
tourists and people stopping in, business people, military people, watermen, all
sorts of different folks. Apparently at night the crowd got a little rougher,
more bikers, watermen, a lot of service personnel who'd be having a few
pops after hours. And it was also a place where if you knew the
right code words, you could make a drug deal, not necessarily over the
bar, but around back. As we understand it, if you ask the
right people the right question, you could buy cocaine, marijuana, and other
drugs there. It's not considered a gay friendly place. As we've talked about
before, Kathy and Becky has the same sex couple. If they went to
a place like that would probably have to be very careful. It isn't a
place where you're gonna have a lot of public displays of affection. There's not
kind to be any handholding or anything like that. It's the nineteen eighties.
Virginia's conservative, a lot of military. Kathy's on active duty for at least
the first part of their relationship, and Kathy course has been investigated by the
Naval Criminal Investigative Service for being a lesbian, so they're going to be real
careful. Unfortunately, there were some waitresses that the FBI was trying to talk
to who flew the coop were not exactly sure why. One waitress in particular
said she thought she had waited on two women with shoulder length hair, one
with dark wavy hair, and one with red wavy hair, which would match
Kathy and Becky's description. Now, if somebody like Wilmer were hanging out at
the bar there, it's all one big room, he might have seen them,
he might have followed them. Wilmer, as we understand it, did
go to singles bars by nineteen eighty two or so. He he's divorced,
he has two kids and an ex wife up in Lancaster County. He's down
there in the Tidewater area more or less on his own, And apparently we're
hearing more and more reports that he did frequent singles bars. We believe that
he met Teresa Howell at the Zodiac, the after hours club, and that's
conversation for another time. So there's a possibility that Kathy and Becky may have
intersected with Wilmer or an offender like that at the Yorktown Pub. There's another
really dark option, which is we believe that Alan Wade Wilmer, who started
out as a peeping tom, he has a history, and we believe there's
escalating behaviors. In other words, you start out as a peeping tom,
and then eventually you move into break ins, sexual assaults, rape, murder,
and you can see this is the track that we believe that Wilmer was
on. There's a very scary possibility that Alan Wade Wilmer may have taken his
boat or his truck to these locations where he knew lovers would be engaged in
sexual and romantic activity. He may have actually gone there hunting. So there's
this very scary scenario where he actually could be going to these places with the
specific intent of raping and killing people. Since we believe that Kathy and Becky
may have been at the Ringfield Plantation picnic area, which is a very quiet
ten acre spot, quite isolated along the Colonial Parkway, with much more privacy
than most of the other places that we've talked about with the half moon pull
offs along the Colonial Parkway. Could he have actually been emerging from the woods
into a place that was known for same sex twisting if you will, it
could be in I think that's something right out of a horror movie. Let's
be real about it. It's terrifying to think of being in a lovely secluded
spot, spending time with your significant other, trying to get a little romantic,
or just talking and watching the water, watching the moon rise totally also
a valid choice of activity. And suddenly you've got a guy with a flashlight
blinding you while he's knocking on the window. That's terrifying, full stop terrifying.
I hate the idea of that. That is absolutely nuts to me.
And suddenly, because you had used the words lover's Lane, I'm suddenly realizing
that the name of our Oxygen series maybe isn't as bad as we thought it
was, and it might be a little more on the nose. And that's
scary to me as well. No, I think you're right. I'm fairly
certain that Kathy and Becky were not killed at the Cheatham Annex overlook, which
is where the car is found, because it's so close, literally fifty feet
or so from the surface of the roadway that is the Colonial Parkway, So
there's no privacy there. If you wanted to be romantic or commit a crime
for that matter, would you do either of those activities in a grassy parking
area that's directly next to the roadway. It just don't like me as a
likely scenario, no matter how in command you think you are or how much
you're in your comfort zone, I have a real hard time believing that Alan
Wade Wilmer or another offender is going to spend all the time necessary to take
the steps that were included in the murder of Kathy Thomas and Rebecca Dowski.
Absolutely, because you are talking about not only making sure that the bodies are
in the way back and the back seat, you are also talking about the
time that it would take to try to push the car toward the edge of
the embankment. We know that Wilmer was a smaller statued guy, we know
he was strong, but still it takes a little bit of work to push
a car over the edge. Remind everybody what Kathy was driving. She's driving
a nineteen eighty Honda Civic and that was back when Honda's were smaller than they
are now. So it's a fairly light cards under two thousand pounds. It's
a manual transmission, so easy enough to throw into neutral. I do think
one person, and as we understand it, Alan Wade Wilmer, was extremely
strong. We've talked to people that worked with him in his tree service business
and they said they would not have messed with the guy. Even though he
was fairly shortened stature at only five to five, he was really built from
all the work on the water. So I don't think he would have any
problem whatsoever pushing the Honda Civic over the edge of the embankment down towards the
York River, even with Kathy and Becky's bodies inside. I think totally you're
probably looking at an eighteen hundred pound car plus two people under twenty two hundred
pounds and on level ground. I don't think a strong built guy like Wilmer
or another offender would have difficulty pushing the car over the edge. We do
know ultimately though, that his goal of getting the car into the river did
not succeed because it got tangled up in the underbrush. And at that point
you're not going to get the clean getaway that you were looking for. You're
not just going to be shoving the car over the edge and being able to
beat feet back to wherever the boat or the truck was. Instead, then
he's got to take the time to pour the diesel fuel. Like the matches,
all of that is something that you don't necessarily want other cars coming down
the parkway within fifty feet of you seeing you do so. I think that
the dump site is not the site where the actual crime took place. It
is not the primary crime scene. I can't imagine dumping the car over the
edge and trying to get it to go down the edge of the embankment.
I can't imagine that being just a short and easy process. No, it
sounds very time consuming, and with these multiple steps, with the strangulation by
rope throat cutting, loading the cars with the two bodies, Kathy in the
way back in diagonally across the rear seat, attempting to set the car on
fire with diesel fuel, which always struck me as really out there, and
then ultimately pushing the car over the embankment having failed to set the car on
fire. It's very time consuming. I'm thinking you're spending half an hour or
maybe longer with this car in these bodies. It's a pretty gutsy move to
do all of this right next to the roadway. One of the things that
I've been trying to figure out, I'm sure you are too, over the
last series of weeks, is what is he using to get himself there?
Is he beaching the boat someplace, is he anchoring someplace and wading in,
or is he using the truck that so many people have seen? That I
think changes the roadmap a little bit. If he's in the truck, where
did he come upon them? Did he pull in to the Ringfield plantation?
So then that means if he did, he drove Kathy's car, had to
do everything that he could to try to dispose of it, and then he
had to run half a mile down the road back to his car, No
even a little further nine tenths of a mile from one location to the other.
You're listening to mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word
from our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. I try to be
logical about this stuff, even though I think sometimes we're trying to attach logic
to an inherently illogical act. There is a reason why Becky's bodies in the
back seat and Kathy's bodies in the hatchback area that would allow an offender or
two offenders to ride in the front seats. So that driving the Honda,
let's just say from Ringfield Plantation nine tenths of a mile down the road to
the Cheetah Mannox Overlook. It's not that much of a stretch. But if
he's arriving in his own truck, if he's by himself, a single offender,
he can't drive both vehicles at the same time. If he's arriving by
boat, he has to leave the boat and then use the victim's car.
This begins to sound a bit like Keith and Sandy, where Keith's Toyota Celica.
There were a number of reports that the seat was pulled well forward.
He's five to five Keith is closer to six feet, so there's a significant
difference in leg length. It sounds like if it's one offender without an accomplice
or someone to help him move cars and stage cars. They do have to
then get back to the boat, the truck, or whatever vehicle it is
they're using to get to the location. I know someone is going to ask,
I'll go ahead and ask preemptively. How tall was Kathy? Cathy's five
to seven, okay, so she's my height, all right. Becky's even
a little taller. I never met Backy, but I think she's a five
to eight. So they're both good sized, athletic women. I tend to
drive with my seat pretty far back because my legs are long. Would that
that have been the case with Kathy as well? Yeah? Absolutely? Okay,
So for Wilmer to drive her car, for example, the seat would
have had to have been moved. I imagine I would say yes. Now,
in the photographs I've seen most of the time, and some of the
photographs are reversed, which makes it a little complicated because they started out as
slides, the seats seem to be forward, in other words, folded forward.
So you can get into folded forward. Ye, yeah, get into
the back seat. Now, remember when the first responders were there, they
actually entered the vehicle. You wouldn't do that in twenty twenty four, but
this is nineteen eighty six and crime scenes were not restricted in the way that
they are now. I've talked to the first responders who said they actually climbed
into the vehicle. They weren't certain that Kathy and Becky were dead at first,
and they actually got into the Honda in the back seat. And then
it's a little easier to access Kathy's body because she was in the trunk.
It's a little hard for me to say where the Honda's seats were in relation
to when the car was first found. I have seen photographs in various stages,
but again, you don't know exactly when the photograph was taken. Some
of them are clearly taken after the car has been pulled back up from the
embankment and back onto the grassy area, because not much detail is visible when
the cars nose down towards the York River. Another question that I know people
are going to ask, because we have very conscientious listeners and followers, can
you tell us what happened to Kathy's car after her death, because I'm sure
people will be asking where's the car? Can we swab it for DNA.
Can we use them back? The answer is no, but I'll let you
expand upon why. Yeah, those cars are all long gone. I've seen
photographs of the car in an impound garage where it was taken after it was
towed from the Colonial Parkway. A number of interior parts of the car,
carpets, floor mats, probably some pieces of the interior of the Honda Civic
were retained and are still in possession of the FBI, but the car itself
was ultimately scrapped. We have the situation with a number of vehicles where the
vehicles were actually returned to the families, which now strikes me as very unfortunate.
That's how things were done in the nineteen eighties. I'm really hoping that
if the FBI has not already tested those interior portions of the car that it
still retains, I hope that now would be a great time for them to
do that, using both the MVAC from our friend Jared Bradley and anything else
that they think they can use to see if maybe there's some DNA on those
seats and floor mats and so on and so forth. I think this would
be a great opportunity for them to test all of that. Now, let's
see what we can get out of it. I believe most of that testing
has been done based on my conversations with the FBI and the last couple of
years. So before we move on, I think we have two potential scenarios
that immediately come to mind. One is that perhaps Kathy and Becky cross paths
with Alan Wade Wilmer Senior or another offender at a place like the Yorktown Pub.
Or that Allan Wade Wilmer Senior or another offender entered what I believe to
be the Ringfield Plantation picnic area with an intent towards attacking couples, many of
whom might have been same sex. In the large book of press clippings that
I keep from that time period, most of which is courtesy of Joyce Call's
father, who kept very detailed notes and files, I do have a clipping
from the April thirtieth, nineteen eighty eight edition of the Virginia Gazette, which
is our local hometown paper. I'm not going to read this entire article,
not only because it's quite long, but it is also, by the standard
of twenty twenty four, quite offensive. Just in the way that they use
specific terminology with regard to same sex couples. I do want to make sure
that everyone is clear about why we keep asserting that Ringfield Plantation was a known
cruising spot. This article from April thirtieth, nineteen eighty eight, which is
shortly after Keith Call and Cassandra Haley disappeared. I want to give you guys
the context on this, and please understand that none of this writing is from
me or from Bill. This is from Virginiazette reporter Mike Lake from nineteen eighty
six. The unfortunate title of the article is Park Battle's Influx of Gaze,
and I'm going to read just the first three paragraphs here. Ringfield was made
for families. Scattered tables, nestle under towering oaks on a bluff, overlooking
King's Creek, and grills dot the well kept grassy areas, inviting visitors to
spend an afternoon barbecuing hamburgers and chicken wings. Soothing breezes in waves gently lapping
the sandy shoreline helped create an idyllic picnic setting. But these days few families
can be found in the park. Quote Ringfield has become a traditional gathering spot
for gays, said David Moffitt, superintendent of the Colonial National Historical Park,
which includes the picnic areas along the Colonial Parkway. There is nothing wrong or
illegal with that. It's the unsavory activity that goes along with it that bothers
me. Ringfield is but one of three quote hot spots frequented by homosexuals.
Moffat said. The Great Neck and Yorktown Beach picnic areas also attract their share
of gays, but Ringfield's relative seclusion seems to draw the most activity. I'm
going to stop reading the article because it really just gets more offensive from there.
But you've got it right here in writing Ringfield Plantation is a place that
was well known as a cruising spot. The rest of the article does discuss
the efforts made by the folks at the park service to cut down a graffiti
to copy down the license plates of people who were seen loitering in the area.
It's quite appalling the way that it's written and the way that same sex
couples are referred to. However, this was the treatment in nineteen eighty six.
We do not condone it. We think it's appalling for anybody who is
wondering where did you get that intel about Ringfield plantation. It's here, It
was well known at that point. Very interesting two potential scenarios. I think
the Ringfield plantation one is probably spot on. But that does bring to mind
that horrific image that you brought up a little bit earlier, bill of Wilmer
either coming in his truck or coming up through the water on the boat and
sneaking up to the window of Kathy's car. And that's not going to let
me sleep well tonight. Now, we do have other reports that in a
different incident with a straight couple, but in this same timeframe, Alan Wade
Wilmer Senior apparently came up and we've told you about how he used to accost
people on the Colonial Parkway, banging on windows, demanding driver's licenses, almost
like a cop would. But he's not wearing a police uniform. He's driving
his very distinctive truck. He's using the high beams on his truck to help
blind people. He's not using police lights or anything like that. He's just
taking this highly aggressive Approachary comes up in bangs on people's windows and insists they're
doing something wrong or they're trespassing, demands their driver's licenses, and in many
examples he's trying to get them to roll the window down, which some more
cautious people refuse to do, and fortunately these people lived to tell the tale.
Here's one thing that jumped out at me from one of those reports.
Wilmer approached a straight couple who were engaged in making out and not paying much
attention to their surroundings. He approached them in this very aggressive manner, but
one of the things he said was, are you girls having fun? Apparently
the guy had longer hair, and when he turned around, he realized that
he wasn't dealing with a same sex couple, but he was dealing with an
opposite sex couple, a man and a woman, and these people were able
to fend him off. But I remember saying to Kristen, how weird it
was that this guy would say are you girls having fun? Which is sometimes
an expression that's used. How weird that this would be within at most a
year and a half after Kathy and Becky were brutally murdered just down the Colonial
Parkway. It strikes me as a really odd thing to say, yeah,
absolutely, it does. As soon as you had said that during one of
our sort of reporting in phone calls at the end of the day where I
call Bill and say, what's been going on. I've been wrangling teenagers and
he gives me all the information. As soon as he said that, that
immediately sent my antenna right up, very odd and then switching over to the
Ragged Island Wildlife Refuge Huge Management area, they changed it parking area. When
we were talking with Blaine Pardo a couple of weeks ago, we asked Blaine
to tell the story about how the cops said, are you here for a
blowjob or some weed? Apparently, this Ragged Island parking area has been known
for decades as a gay cruising spot. It's also a place where you would
go to engage in a low level drug deal and we always have to remind
our younger listeners this is before the internet, this is before cell phones,
before he pagers. If you wanted to go score some pot, you had
to go to where the dealers were, or you had to know somebody who
would say, oh, yeah, my cousin's a dealer, he can get
you some pot or whatever it was. It's very striking that Ragged Island is
another well known gay cruising spot. Could Alan Wade Wilmer, whom we know
was the offender for certain in the rape and murder of Robin Edwards and David
Nobling which took place at Right Island. Could he have gone there with an
eye towards attacking a same sex couple or a mixed sex couple. It's a
very intriguing thought that perhaps this guy is going to equal opportunity offender, willing
to attack women, men, and couples in perhaps any combination. Exactly when
we were asking doctor Ray Carr and Jim Fitzgerald the couple of weeks back that
we had them on the pod whether they felt Wilmer was a preferential or opportunistic
offender, they had said that probably preferential, but most offenders will take what
they can get should the opportunity arise. And I get the feeling that Wilmer
was definitely an offender who would take whatever he could get. I am still
struck by Fitz's terminology of apex predator for Wilmer, because I do feel like
a shark he's going to hunt wherever he sees potential prey. For Wilmer,
it seems like there were any number of spots where he might have done that,
whether that was clubs on Mercury Boulevard or the Colonial Parkway or the Ragged
Island Refuge Management area. It looks like Wilmer was very much an equal opportunity
opportunistic offender. One of the things that our profilers have told us is that
serial killers like variety in their targets and that they enjoy a challenge. For
example, as we talked about a few minutes ago, we have reports that
Wilmer started out as a keeping top then escalated over time, and we know
he's for certain a serial killer and rapist. He may be the kind of
offender that actually enjoys the variety, and, as our profiler friends were saying,
enjoys the challenge of ultimately taking on a couple where you've got two people
and the potential risk to the offender is much greater because two people, one
might be able to overpower you, or one might be able to get away.
We've talked about that. In the Robin Edwards David Nobling example, David
was shot twice, perhaps while struggling or perhaps while trying to get away.
Robin was shot once. But you can see how in these scenarios, and
Jim Clementi talked about this with us in the Lover's Lane Murders television series on
Oxygen. It's a challenge, but a well organized, aggressive offender can control
a couple. That offender has got to come in with a strong aggressive attitude,
perhaps use a gun to establish control, which I think is definitely what
happened in the Edward's Nobling case. Although a gun might have been used in
some of these other examples, it's hard for us to say because we have
badly decomposed or even missing bodies. Lots of interesting things to think about here.
If you have any information about Alan Wade Wilmer, Senior and his activities,
please make sure that you reach out to the correct law enforcement authorities.
The tip lines for the FBI and the VSP are as follows one eight hundred
call FBI. You can submit tips online at tips dot FBI dot gov,
or you can email questions at VSP dot Virginia dot gov. That is going
to do it for this episode of Mindover Murder. Thank you so much for
listening. We'll see you next time. Mindover Murder is a production of Absolute
Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.
Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin
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