WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.960 --> 00:00:07.200 This week we had to South America and the work of Virto Riefo, who 2 00:00:07.360 --> 00:00:14.720 was an archaeologist who made some profound discoveries. His belief was that man evolved 3 00:00:14.800 --> 00:00:22.039 in Antarctica, migrated north to South America, eventually into present day Mexico and 4 00:00:22.399 --> 00:00:28.160 North America. The people from Antarctica were known as the Vericochia, this fair 5 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:34.399 skinned race of beings who had the knowledge of agriculture, mathematics, medicine, 6 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:43.960 and building Tiwanaku Cusco of sophisticated building technology and large populations. This week we 7 00:00:44.039 --> 00:00:50.159 look at South America as a source of Homo sapien sapient and the great migration 8 00:00:50.320 --> 00:01:27.879 to the world. All this and more today on Earth Ancients for Saturday, 9 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:37.239 September sixteenth, twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, 10 00:01:37.840 --> 00:01:46.680 Cliff Dunning. Hey, how you doing. We're traveling to South America 11 00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:52.719 today. I don't get enough data about the regions down there, and that's 12 00:01:52.760 --> 00:02:00.400 a very very old, perhaps really old part of the world that doesn't get 13 00:02:00.519 --> 00:02:05.239 enough. We don't we don't receive enough data from that area. And this 14 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:08.919 is why I like to have Rafael Eisman, who's an historian, a scholar 15 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:15.520 and a prolific writer on the program to tell us some of the newest discoveries 16 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:22.080 that are coming out of places like Peru, Bolivia, Chile. And we 17 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:27.240 don't think of this part of the world as a bastion for ancient cultures, 18 00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:34.080 but it really really is. And our program today is aptly titled Polar Antarctic 19 00:02:34.759 --> 00:02:39.520 Origins of Mankind. And as we'll hear in this interview today, there are 20 00:02:39.639 --> 00:02:51.400 numerous cultures, ancient civilizations, ancient landscapes and ruins of people that we are 21 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.599 very we know very little of. At the end of the interview, by 22 00:02:54.639 --> 00:03:01.680 the way, Rafael discusses a series of children mummies that were found in the 23 00:03:01.879 --> 00:03:07.919 very high mountains of Peru. Why they were buried there is anyone's guests. 24 00:03:07.919 --> 00:03:15.120 But I will be posting not only a number of galleries of these people, 25 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:21.360 these children, but also of the Vera Cucha, which are the white gods. 26 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:28.439 Are the fair skinned gods that populated much of South America, but thousands 27 00:03:28.479 --> 00:03:34.719 of years ago also left their impressions on Central and Mexico. Central America and 28 00:03:34.879 --> 00:03:42.159 Mexico. Now most of us know about the Parakas people of South America, 29 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.680 and I have been fascinated by this culture for decades, not only because of 30 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:54.919 their anatomical differences, being taller, thicker boned, and having exceedingly longer skull 31 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:03.439 cranial sizes than we Homo sapien sapience. But there comes into question lost races 32 00:04:03.479 --> 00:04:09.080 of the ancient world, and I believe the Paracus are one of these people. 33 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:15.400 I got involved and interested in these longheaded people, like I said, 34 00:04:15.439 --> 00:04:20.879 decades ago, when I was beginning to travel to Mexico and in northern Yucatan, 35 00:04:21.079 --> 00:04:28.279 there are grave sites that are filled with remains of long headed what can 36 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:35.560 only be considered Maya people and some of the early pathology and these are Studies 37 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:42.319 that were done on these skeletal remains reveal that the bodies of the heads, 38 00:04:42.399 --> 00:04:47.600 the cranial craniums of these people are much longer naturally, which means that they 39 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:57.160 were not bound. And the belief from a lot of alternative archaeology alternative researches 40 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:06.160 that the head binding comes centuries later after these these longheads had passed on for 41 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:12.680 whatever reason, environmental causes, whatever, We don't know why the race would 42 00:05:12.839 --> 00:05:24.839 perish, but they were sanctified by the people in headbinding practices so they could 43 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:33.639 they could create artificially the look of these people through headbinding. Now, when 44 00:05:33.680 --> 00:05:40.560 we talk about South America, the practice are one of many people who settled 45 00:05:40.639 --> 00:05:46.360 that area. And today we'll hear from Raphael the belief that a number of 46 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:51.319 scientists at the turn of the century had that there was a great migration from 47 00:05:51.360 --> 00:06:00.800 Antarctica into the known South American regions by an unknown race of super beans, 48 00:06:01.040 --> 00:06:10.519 the Verracoccia and other civilizations that settled in Chile, Peru, Bolivia and other 49 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:18.000 areas. If we study the best known of these cities, Tewanaco of Bolivia, 50 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:23.720 and we look at the remains, this is a civilization that is extremely 51 00:06:23.759 --> 00:06:30.279 sophisticated. They're building components. The blocks that built their foundations. The walls, 52 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:36.639 the columns, and so forth, are cut from anisite of very resilient 53 00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:44.759 and tuft to cut stone that's only found in the quarries of Bolivia. I 54 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:47.480 have not had a chance to go to Tewanaku, but a number of people 55 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:53.439 have, and Graham Hancock, Chris dun number of people have had a chance 56 00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:58.399 to go there and analyze the stone works of that area. Nobody knows how 57 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:04.240 the stones were cut there's a great deal of speculation that the stones were poured, 58 00:07:04.399 --> 00:07:11.439 or they're geopolymers of some kind mixes of cement and local regional rock that 59 00:07:11.560 --> 00:07:15.480 was crushed to make the stonework. But I believe it was Chris Dunn who 60 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:21.000 analyzed the stone to the degree where he felt that it was not poured or 61 00:07:21.079 --> 00:07:27.040 a geopolymer, that it was actual stone that was cut with some form of 62 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:32.480 technology that we're not aware of. There have been a few skeletal remains that 63 00:07:32.560 --> 00:07:40.319 have been recovered from that area, and they all have elongated skulls. In 64 00:07:40.360 --> 00:07:44.879 fact, there are a couple of museums in the area that are filled with 65 00:07:44.920 --> 00:07:53.600 these long headed cultures that occupied those portions of South America. Now, Tiwunaku 66 00:07:53.759 --> 00:08:01.519 is a very anomalous place, and it's also extremely old. In fact, 67 00:08:01.959 --> 00:08:07.839 it's so old that Lake Titi Kaka, which is very close to that area, 68 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:15.360 is known to have been shifted during some geological change, and it now 69 00:08:15.399 --> 00:08:22.319 sits about nine thousand feet above sea level, which is very inhospitable for human 70 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:26.959 beings to be in for very long periods of time. It's just the areas 71 00:08:26.040 --> 00:08:31.799 is so thin. There are a number of researchers that I've studied and we'll 72 00:08:31.799 --> 00:08:39.480 hear about them today that believe that Timunaku is probably in the twelve to eighteen 73 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:46.639 thousand year inception date range. I believe it's probably much older than that. 74 00:08:46.679 --> 00:08:52.720 It's probably twenties plus. But we can't even consider that because the dates we're 75 00:08:52.720 --> 00:09:01.159 getting back are within the low teens in terms of carbon dating. But to 76 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:09.759 give you an example of an incredible physicality and skeletal remains, here's a short 77 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:16.399 audio of one of the Paracas skulls that were found in a graveyard and just 78 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:24.559 the strangeness and the anomalous nature of their bodies. Have a quick listen. 79 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:35.279 Perracus skull number forty four, discovered in two twelve. It has a weight 80 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:41.080 of two point eight pounds, twenty five percent heavier than the average adult male 81 00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:50.159 skull. It has a cranial capacity of fifteen hundred cubic centimeters twenty percent greater 82 00:09:50.440 --> 00:09:58.360 than normal, and it is missing a saginal suture, the connective tissue joint 83 00:09:58.639 --> 00:10:03.559 found between the parietal bones in all human skulls. This is just one of 84 00:10:03.799 --> 00:10:09.120 hundreds of strange, misshapen skulls that have been found on the southern coast of 85 00:10:09.200 --> 00:10:16.440 Peru dating back to nineteen twenty seven. It was at this time that archaeologist 86 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:24.360 Julioteo first excavated a massive burial complex thought to have been built by the Paracus 87 00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:28.480 people who lived in the region from eight hundred BC to one hundred BC. 88 00:10:31.879 --> 00:10:37.799 Julio Steo was the father of Peruvian archaeology, and in the nineteen twenties he 89 00:10:37.919 --> 00:10:45.399 discovered mummy bundles, and in each mummy bundle was a person with an elongated 90 00:10:45.399 --> 00:10:52.320 skull. They were buried in family mausoleums, in some cases as deep as 91 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:58.879 thirty feet into the bedrock. Mainstream archaeologists say the elongation is most likely the 92 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:05.759 result of head binding, which involves wrapping the heads of infants while their skulls 93 00:11:05.799 --> 00:11:09.720 are still soft, in order to change the shape. It is a practice 94 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:16.639 found in numerous cultures throughout the world that dates back thousands of years. But 95 00:11:16.799 --> 00:11:24.879 why would people desire to elongate the heads of their children. Ancient astronaut theorists 96 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:31.360 suggests that headbinding originated with primitive humans who were attempting to imitate the appearance of 97 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:39.759 extra terrestrial visitors. But according to researcher Brian Forster, the assistant director of 98 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:46.120 the Paracas History Museum. Headbinding would not account for the other anomalies that the 99 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:52.279 Paracus skulls exhibit. About five percent of the elongated skulls that we find in 100 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.919 Paracas are so complex in shape and size that it's hard to believe that they're 101 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:05.039 the result of any form of cranial deformation or headbinding. Not only are they 102 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:11.720 elongated vertically, but also the eye sockets are much larger than normal. There 103 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:18.240 are two holes in the back of the skull called foramen through which blood and 104 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:26.960 nerve flow occurred. And also their jaws were very robust and among the largest 105 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:31.480 of them. We find skulls sixty percent heavier than normal human skulls and a 106 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:37.080 brain capacity that is two point five times larger than the normal human brain. 107 00:12:41.960 --> 00:12:46.879 But if these elongated skulls were not the result of the ancient practice of head 108 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:54.000 binding, then just who or what were these mysterious beings. In twenty fourteen, 109 00:12:54.639 --> 00:13:01.960 DNA testing was performed on Perrochus skull number forty four, which rendered surprising 110 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:07.559 results. Some initial DNA testing has been done and the results, according to 111 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:11.519 the geneticists, are quite startling. There were certain segments of the DNA that 112 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:18.120 didn't match anything known to be human. What it suggests to me is that 113 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:24.320 Practus could very well have been an ancient bloodline related to Homo sapiens, but 114 00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:31.600 not specifically Homo sapiens itself. Now, we don't hear a great deal of 115 00:13:33.279 --> 00:13:39.759 information coming from South America because the scientists down there don't really follow the Western 116 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:50.120 theory of population of the migration. Most Western scientists believe that Homo sapiens sapiens 117 00:13:50.120 --> 00:13:54.559 came down through the Bearing Straight Ice Bridge in Alaska, populated North America, 118 00:13:54.639 --> 00:14:03.159 and eventually populated present day Mexico and South America. The out of Africa theory 119 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:07.879 is only kind of a Western culture point of view. There's a lot of 120 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:16.360 other world who believe that modern humans came out of Australia. The Chinese believe 121 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:24.120 that there's evidence, and they have hominins that are modern that came out of 122 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:31.919 China. South Americans believed that the emergence of modern humans came out of their 123 00:14:31.440 --> 00:14:35.559 their country, and they have good evidence for that. So what does this 124 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:41.080 tell us It's it's a great deal of confusion that we have modern humans, 125 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:46.519 almost Sapiens sapience, coming out of these different parts of the world, you 126 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:48.919 know, and it's so convenient just to say they came out of Africa. 127 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.159 You know. That's how I was That's the education that I received in college, 128 00:14:56.240 --> 00:14:58.399 and I think it even when is back early is high school, that 129 00:15:00.039 --> 00:15:07.480 Africa is the source for modern humans or the evolution of humans, and then 130 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.879 we get into Europe. So South American emergence is very interesting, it's very 131 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:22.639 unique. And as we begin to see this evidence of modern humans arriving and 132 00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:30.000 populating South America, moving into Central America and then Mexico and eventually into North 133 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:35.320 America, this is another source of evidence that we need to pay attention to. 134 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:41.759 So the program today is Polar Antarctica Origins of Mankind. My guest is 135 00:15:41.279 --> 00:15:48.759 Raphael Eisman. Be sure to see the gallery on Facebook, and also at 136 00:15:48.799 --> 00:15:54.320 the end of this interview you'll be hearing some discussion on these children mummies. 137 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.919 Look for the video that I'll be posting on Earth Ancients of the most recent 138 00:16:00.879 --> 00:16:12.240 information on these mummies. 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Each of the meals I had was excellent. So go to 157 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:56.440 factor meals dot com slash Earth Ancients fifty and use the code Earth Ancients fifty 158 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:47.200 to get fifty percent off m M. So we cover a great deal of 159 00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:52.039 the world annually, Mexico, United States, Europe, but we don't get 160 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:59.839 down to South America enough. And we have a historian, a field researcher 161 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:04.359 who's a prolific writer, and that's our friend Rafael Eisman. He is coming 162 00:19:04.359 --> 00:19:11.200 to us from Chili today and in the last interview we did, he was 163 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:22.039 discussing Pissaro, who was a conquistador who came with educated priests and I guess 164 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:27.680 historians for the time and spoke of very very early people actually chronicled. And 165 00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:37.640 we're gonna ask and talked to Rafael about these early chronicles pre Inca and even 166 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:41.319 before that. So there's a lot to talk about today and we want to 167 00:19:41.359 --> 00:19:48.880 catch up on some of the latest research that he has unfolded for us from 168 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:52.839 South America, specifically Chili. So hey, Rafael, how are you? 169 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:57.000 I welcome back to Earth Ancients. High Cliff I'm fine, thank you. 170 00:19:57.240 --> 00:20:02.359 How are you. I'm doing great, Thank you for joining me. Let's 171 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:06.960 talk real quickly. You know, you you speak of Pissarrow and his his 172 00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:14.440 group who when he came over he actually was smart enough to bring with him 173 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:22.319 scribes and educated people. Correct, yes, yes, and and what what 174 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:29.400 did the I mean did he did they write a history of the ancient Americas 175 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:37.640 or what specifically did they chronicle with the with the shaman of of the Inca. 176 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:45.599 Well, you see, they're they're several interesting and may I say fundamental 177 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:52.119 fields. Some of them were you know, under the inquisition eyes. Others 178 00:20:52.960 --> 00:21:00.759 where especially those that traveled farther, you know than the main centers, for 179 00:21:00.839 --> 00:21:06.839 instance, as Lim l Cousco in the case of Chile. You know, 180 00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:14.000 it was still a very unknown land. So they were I would say more 181 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:21.599 open when they were recording their experiences a game. So talking about Conquistador Petro 182 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:29.359 Pizarro, he wrote Chronica back in fifteen seventy one with the title of Relationship 183 00:21:29.400 --> 00:21:33.880 of the Discovery and Conquest of the Kingdoms of Peru. So it's very very 184 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:41.720 interesting. One of the descriptions he gave because he saw these indios, these 185 00:21:41.759 --> 00:21:49.240 indigenous people who were actually white and blonde, and they were different than than 186 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:55.000 to the other ones, the one that we can think of usually when we 187 00:21:55.039 --> 00:22:02.920 think about Bispanic world, and actually one of these other indigenous individuals. When 188 00:22:03.079 --> 00:22:07.880 Pedro Pizarro inquired who are they, they say they were the children of the 189 00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:17.039 idols. And the idols it's a fundamental concept because it's the idea of theosis 190 00:22:17.279 --> 00:22:23.480 of the gods. And the reason why Pedro Pizaro wrote idols instead of gods, 191 00:22:23.640 --> 00:22:27.880 it's because of the Christian faith. You know, you could not sound 192 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.759 at any point, as you know, having any idea of several gods. 193 00:22:33.759 --> 00:22:40.400 There is just one god, which is the Christian God. So that's something 194 00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.640 you have to you know, really like focus when you're reading these chronicles of 195 00:22:44.680 --> 00:22:52.119 the fifteenth sixteenth century. Yeah, you actually write about these white Inca, 196 00:22:52.279 --> 00:23:00.319 these white Indians. But Pissaro was quite fascinated with them, wasn't he was? 197 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:03.480 He was? I mean, like you're it's like you know, going 198 00:23:03.559 --> 00:23:08.319 to any in the past, of course, any let's say, unknown region, 199 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:15.599 unknowned country, and you have an stereotype of people and suddenly you find 200 00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:21.839 another type. Of course you must be wondering, who are these people? 201 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:26.440 Where are they from? How come they are different? Again? And this 202 00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:30.000 is uh, what we're talking about right now about Pedro Pisarro. It's not 203 00:23:30.119 --> 00:23:36.359 the only one. Actually, when I was first reading all these chronicas, 204 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:42.119 it cautes very very very strong my attention. When I, for instance, 205 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:48.759 was reading the letters of Pedro de Valdivia, the conquistadore of Chile. You 206 00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:53.200 know, he actually founded Santiago, our capital city. When he was writing 207 00:23:53.240 --> 00:24:02.839 to the Emperor of Spain that he so the white people, white indigenous people 208 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:07.799 in the valley of the Mapocho, which is the main river that crosses our 209 00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:14.759 city. So I was wondering, what, you know, is he implying 210 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.640 with the description. And it turns out that as as soon as I started 211 00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:26.440 to read all the Grannistas of Chili, other Grannistas of Peru, of Ecuador, 212 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:32.279 I was so surprised to realize that it's not just one. There are 213 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:41.519 many many European, let's say, witnesses of this Presepanic white Indian population in 214 00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.319 the Americas. And actually I have written several articles, of course a couple 215 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:52.400 of books about this, I would say, forgotten people of our past. 216 00:24:52.400 --> 00:25:00.799 Hm. I find it fairly unique that Bizarro would chronicle. Now he forced 217 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:06.920 to bring educated people with him or did they pay their way to join him 218 00:25:07.519 --> 00:25:12.359 to sail to South America. Well, you see, I must say that 219 00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:18.680 there's this. I'm not saying all of them were great and pull some of 220 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.079 them, you know, like like wealth, but not all of them were 221 00:25:22.160 --> 00:25:29.519 like that, and some of them were like world. Therefore, not only 222 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.680 they were prepared, they know how to write and read, and the models, 223 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:40.200 no quote, scientific people with them. Some of them were priests, 224 00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.000 of course, some of them were missionaires, and they were recording. We 225 00:25:44.079 --> 00:25:49.880 have we have in the you know, in these fascinating sources of the sixteenth 226 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:57.400 seventeenth century, amazing amazing fields of knowledge of you know, from the botanic 227 00:25:57.440 --> 00:26:03.920 point of view, from logical point of view, and in many cases these 228 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:10.799 are examples of you know, I would say the search of knowledge you know, 229 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.960 that predates the scientific modern world. So it's very interesting how they weare, 230 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:21.799 you know, inquiring how they were learning, and then of course recording 231 00:26:22.160 --> 00:26:25.400 all what they were seeing, all what they were you know, witnessing. 232 00:26:25.880 --> 00:26:30.720 As I say, they have very important records about you know, plants, 233 00:26:30.759 --> 00:26:34.079 about the soils, about the mountains, about the rivers, and lakes, 234 00:26:34.079 --> 00:26:40.680 and of course about the people and they were you know, and encountering. 235 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.559 So you have descriptions of what we say, like the you know, stereotype 236 00:26:45.599 --> 00:26:52.440 of Indigenous people. But also also you find that they were you know, 237 00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:57.720 talking about these Indians blancos or white Indians, which is something that as I 238 00:26:57.759 --> 00:27:04.039 say before, all my attention because it breaks you know that you we have 239 00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:10.279 about the Praise Panic world. And I must say that when I started to 240 00:27:10.400 --> 00:27:15.480 you know, really focusing into this field, it was not only that they 241 00:27:15.759 --> 00:27:21.000 were describing these people because they were seeing them, you know, but also 242 00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:26.440 you find descriptions of this population in the Praise Panic sources, for instance, 243 00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:33.000 in the pople who you know, and some of the fumes American texts that 244 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:41.519 were not destroyed by the incusition. It's a feel that's absolutely fascinating. And 245 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:48.519 sculptures, spanic textile figures, you know, and and and you know, 246 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:56.400 representations of another group of people, of indigenous people. And that's something that 247 00:27:56.680 --> 00:28:03.839 I would says, it has in to a point ignored for instance, a 248 00:28:04.039 --> 00:28:11.240 famous American historian, Paul trivete By. When I say American, I do 249 00:28:11.319 --> 00:28:15.640 not mean from the States. I mean scholar that focused on the roots of 250 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:26.279 America's of course, Paul Revet he has in the his book The Origins of 251 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:33.880 American Minds, he has a whole chapter about these white population that several other 252 00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.119 people have also witnessed. So it's not something that we are making up now 253 00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:44.920 that we are you know, creating at all. Now I'm curious, you 254 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:51.680 know, you're laying out that Pizarro, Francisco Pizarro was you know, much 255 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:56.559 different than say Cortez, who his seems like his only goal was just to 256 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:03.599 to fight against the mata Zuma and the Aztecs and then reap as much gold 257 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:11.960 and valuables as possible. Pissarro was the same way, wasn't he In many 258 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:15.960 ways he was you know he was he may have been educated, but he 259 00:29:17.079 --> 00:29:23.920 was not by any means a teacher or a philosopher at all. Well, 260 00:29:25.319 --> 00:29:32.640 they have these very very i would say strange combination or mix of of you 261 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:44.079 know, a very powerful idealism of their you know, Western Spinach spirit and 262 00:29:44.279 --> 00:29:49.359 also these very strong let's say materialism. So you have a mix, uh 263 00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:55.400 in some of these cases. But then you have also these very grave people 264 00:29:55.519 --> 00:30:02.920 that crossed in like these ships, you know, all that you wouldn't even 265 00:30:03.039 --> 00:30:06.599 know they weren't going to be able to cross you know, the Atlantic Ocean 266 00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:11.599 at that time, and then reaching all Central America, and then you know, 267 00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:22.319 like traveling through a known part of South America, I mean all the 268 00:30:22.440 --> 00:30:29.200 way down until they would reach you know, Cousco or or or the central 269 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:37.720 regions of Chelles. So it's a it's a very interest in combination. Yeah, 270 00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:41.160 belief of what what what they speak, all in their beings in there 271 00:30:41.680 --> 00:30:48.359 in there in what they called the side spirit of the time. It's it's 272 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.039 it's a mix of different factors. Okay, Yeah, talk a little bit 273 00:30:53.079 --> 00:31:00.839 about what they discovered the origins of this white race of inca in indigenous people. 274 00:31:00.880 --> 00:31:06.839 Did Did they get a chance to figure out where they originate from? 275 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:12.160 I haven't found. I have read hundreds of chronicas, hundreds of chronicas. 276 00:31:12.640 --> 00:31:22.720 I have the records of since I would say I'm Americo Vespucci until pH Flawcet. 277 00:31:22.279 --> 00:31:30.839 We're talking about over five hundred years, you know, of or around 278 00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:36.599 five hundred years of different people that didn't know the sources of the others that 279 00:31:36.720 --> 00:31:42.720 they are describing. You know, this phrase funny white population so far I 280 00:31:42.759 --> 00:31:49.759 haven't read any you know, like conclusion that they would give about what was 281 00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:56.079 the origins, just some you know, references as the one given by Bedro 282 00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:04.759 Pizzaro when he asked one of these indigenous people, who are these these white 283 00:32:04.799 --> 00:32:12.480 indians he was witnessing, and and and his informants said, they are the 284 00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:19.680 children of the idols, the children of the gods loos. So that that 285 00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:25.920 it's a it's a very very like short you know clue, you know, 286 00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:30.400 but that's something we can we can understand. Why I'm saying this is because 287 00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:40.839 once the nissioners, the conquistadors, and of course later on ethnologists started to 288 00:32:42.079 --> 00:32:47.279 write down, you know, started to record the oral traditions of the indigenous 289 00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:53.680 people of the Americas. They were asking them who are the gods? And 290 00:32:53.720 --> 00:33:00.359 then for instance, we're talking about the Vida coaches of the Andean world, 291 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:07.240 and the Vida coaches are in some cases represented, you know, for instance, 292 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:15.480 in the tradition of Tiahuanaco, and these missionaires these technologies were asking can 293 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.119 you describe them? And they say, well, they were told they were 294 00:33:19.119 --> 00:33:23.559 white. In many cases they were blonde, even with reddish hair, which 295 00:33:24.839 --> 00:33:34.200 once again it's not the ethnical features are not the ethical features you know that 296 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.680 you find in the stereotype of indigenous people. You know, snap you real 297 00:33:39.799 --> 00:33:46.680 quickly, is there today in either Chile or anywhere that you're familiar with in 298 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:52.519 South America? Are there descendants of these white rays that you can see in 299 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:57.799 the in the built in the cities. Well, I wasn't say in the 300 00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:02.759 city's cliff, but I can give you a personal example. I would say 301 00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:10.119 around twenty even, I would say more twenty five than six years ago. 302 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:20.599 I was invited by a shaman of of the Aragano culture. Her name was 303 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.079 into y r Puan, and she invited me to her home all the way 304 00:34:25.239 --> 00:34:31.039 south of of of Chile, and at one point she said, like she 305 00:34:31.119 --> 00:34:39.559 has to, you know, visit her spiritual shaman. They are known in 306 00:34:39.800 --> 00:34:46.880 Chile as macchi, a game. And it turns out that this was in 307 00:34:47.239 --> 00:34:52.639 a forest and I was, you know, like kind of like the first 308 00:34:52.639 --> 00:35:00.480 to arrive to this hut, and suddenly this like kind of show tiny woman 309 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.000 appeared. She's indigenous, of course, and she appeared with her husband and 310 00:35:07.199 --> 00:35:12.960 both were kind of very you know, like out of out of another time, 311 00:35:13.679 --> 00:35:19.159 and they the men had like greenish eyes, and she had blue eyes. 312 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:23.559 They didn't speak a single word of Spanish, they didn't have Spanish or 313 00:35:23.639 --> 00:35:29.760 European features at all. They look really indigenous people, as I say, 314 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:35.800 they were not you know, from from Spanish or Europeans sendents. And I 315 00:35:35.840 --> 00:35:38.840 was kind of shocked, you know, in the in a good sense to 316 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:45.239 find these, you know, people that you you read and chronic us of 317 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:50.239 course, and King to Lye says to me, they are reached. They 318 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:57.480 are like pure indigenous people, you know. And I asked her later on 319 00:35:58.159 --> 00:36:05.480 and then she said, or religion, and indeed what you find today. 320 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:12.639 They were like, you know, white and very very tall, and in 321 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.840 in you know, also in Perule in Bolivia. When I have been traveling 322 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:24.960 around, I have also met indigenous people with these features. So it's something 323 00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:34.280 that it is a very important field. And at one point I realized that 324 00:36:34.320 --> 00:36:39.880 they are the forgotten people, you know, of our Praispanic world. They 325 00:36:39.960 --> 00:36:50.000 have a sentence today, you know, it happens to that as as we 326 00:36:50.079 --> 00:36:57.599 can see certain fields of history of course, of archeology and and and ethnology. 327 00:36:58.320 --> 00:37:00.960 They say, well, they must be you know, the descendants of 328 00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:07.760 some you know people from holand that game that you know, their their ships 329 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:15.559 sunk and they kind of like escaped and they were received by any indigenous people. 330 00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:22.400 Then they have children and so on. But the interesting thing, you 331 00:37:22.440 --> 00:37:27.199 know, against that argument, because it's something that I have heard, you 332 00:37:27.239 --> 00:37:32.519 know, many occasions, is that white Respanic people, you know, they 333 00:37:32.760 --> 00:37:39.800 have the same like European or Western skulls. Okay, meaning by that that 334 00:37:40.119 --> 00:37:51.159 once you study the archeology levels, okay, you have two main you know, 335 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:59.920 character characteristics being the long skull you know, the lists of the lists 336 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:05.400 aphalic, the older, the one that you know, it's it's the oldest 337 00:38:06.079 --> 00:38:10.039 in archeological terms in in South America, which is the same that you find 338 00:38:10.360 --> 00:38:17.400 today in Europe, you know. And then you have at least three four 339 00:38:17.880 --> 00:38:25.280 thousand years a gap and you find this raksphalic which is what you have today 340 00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:31.519 in the indigenous population all over the Americas. Which is is it a longer 341 00:38:31.639 --> 00:38:37.039 cranium right, wider? Yes? Wider? You know, it's yes. 342 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:49.360 So it's interesting that these fields which I'm talking about are not related to any 343 00:38:50.440 --> 00:39:00.599 political ideological field whatsoever. They are not covered, you know, And I 344 00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:09.360 insist on this point. The population have been forgotten and presented kind of as 345 00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:22.840 you know, like like a fantasy. Whenever you have witnesses h during at 346 00:39:22.920 --> 00:39:25.880 least five hundred years, don't you say, when you say fantasy, it's 347 00:39:25.960 --> 00:39:30.320 because they look so out of place, right they have, that's what they 348 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:37.639 have. Blonde hair, white, very very white skin and light eyes, 349 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:42.079 blue green and so forth. Yes, yes, and when I meant my 350 00:39:42.239 --> 00:39:46.639 fantasies that for instance, some some historians have said that when they talk about 351 00:39:46.719 --> 00:39:52.800 for instance the Vira coachas or the kids at Guados as being white, they 352 00:39:52.800 --> 00:40:00.519 were talking that they represent the light of the sun because they were like solar 353 00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:07.840 gods. They are civilization giver beings. Therefore they have to be represented as 354 00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:14.440 white. For instance, gets at Quadle, you know, one of the 355 00:40:14.559 --> 00:40:21.679 main gods of miss American Puntion, you know as having mustache impart and you 356 00:40:21.719 --> 00:40:25.679 know, with physical descriptions that are part of you know, for instance, 357 00:40:27.320 --> 00:40:35.639 population in Europe was a tall, fair skin red headed, blue eyed god. 358 00:40:35.840 --> 00:40:39.960 Right, yes, yes, yes, yes, and I know I 359 00:40:40.039 --> 00:40:47.599 know also what other historians, for instance Juxtamau, which was a French scholar, 360 00:40:49.119 --> 00:40:53.639 he can claimed that all these you know, Pan American and gods as 361 00:40:53.719 --> 00:41:01.599 Ketsa guadal or google Kan or Google Mats, and even the virago and of 362 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:08.519 the Indian world were of European heritage, you know, they were actually Vikings, 363 00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:15.679 which is something that in my point of view, after all these years 364 00:41:15.719 --> 00:41:20.519 I have been researching, I cannot agree with you know, because I'm not 365 00:41:20.599 --> 00:41:23.679 saying that the Vikings were not in South America. This is why we have 366 00:41:23.800 --> 00:41:31.760 you on the program. And that takes us to the Roberto Ringifo theories of 367 00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:39.079 a polar Antarctic origin of mankind. And you've written a great deal about Ringifo 368 00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:49.599 over the years and his belief that mankind actually started from ancient Antarctica and also 369 00:41:50.039 --> 00:41:52.800 the belief that this is where the origins of this white race were right. 370 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:59.880 So talk a little bit first of who was robertofo and what do we know 371 00:42:00.079 --> 00:42:06.239 about him? Well, Cliff, Roberto and Hivo. It's it's still a 372 00:42:06.360 --> 00:42:13.360 mystery. We haven't been able to trace when he was born or when he 373 00:42:13.400 --> 00:42:20.400 died. We have his records in i would say nineteen o four, nineteen 374 00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:27.840 o five at University the Chile and in nineteen o six becoming part of the 375 00:42:28.119 --> 00:42:34.199 Scientific Society of Chile, but where he was school Raphael. If we don't 376 00:42:34.199 --> 00:42:38.880 know his birth or death, do we know that he was given a degree 377 00:42:39.039 --> 00:42:45.559 in anthropology, Yes, because he was he was a professor of university at 378 00:42:45.559 --> 00:42:52.360 the Chile Okay, So he could not be part of University Chile without having 379 00:42:52.360 --> 00:42:57.440 a degree, Okay. And of course the scientific Society, which was a 380 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:04.400 very very prestigious intuition. Yes, but then actually it was very difficult to 381 00:43:04.559 --> 00:43:12.360 enter, even more difficult to give lectures. So we have that since nineteen 382 00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:19.559 o six nineteen nineteen thirty four, if I'm not wrong, he was giving 383 00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:28.079 lectures. Actually I have a list of absolutely all the lectures that he gave 384 00:43:28.639 --> 00:43:34.360 what I had been able to research. He publy composed this El secreto the 385 00:43:34.440 --> 00:43:39.239 la America about secret of Aboriginal America since nineteen nineteen to nineteen nineteen one. 386 00:43:39.559 --> 00:43:45.639 And then he who leased two other books about Prispanic world. One of them 387 00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.280 is called Graphic and Poetic Art of the Primitives and of the Chiles nineteen twenteen. 388 00:43:50.519 --> 00:43:55.599 And then this is something interesting too, the very last known book he 389 00:43:55.679 --> 00:44:00.280 wrote. It's called the Role of the Territory of Chile in the able Tion 390 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:07.400 of Prehistoric Humanity that appeared in Santiago, nineteen thirty five. Okay, And 391 00:44:07.119 --> 00:44:16.679 it's interesting because eighteen nineteen nineteen when he claimed that mankind was originating in the 392 00:44:16.679 --> 00:44:23.239 whole Antarctic regions, specifically of the white and clear skin, it mankind. 393 00:44:23.719 --> 00:44:34.639 Okay. Then a second important field of all his research is that Kiva claimed 394 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:42.559 that the development of civilization started in the southern hemisphere and spread to the north 395 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:47.119 in the Americas, and from the Americas to the rest of the world. 396 00:44:47.440 --> 00:44:52.679 Let me stop you real quickly. So Renewful came up with these theories. 397 00:44:52.719 --> 00:44:58.480 He wrote a great deal of articles and books and what we would consider today 398 00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:05.079 white papers, which are analyticical studies of of different aspects of of a hominin 399 00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:12.119 or a race of beings. What's what makes him so mysterious to you? 400 00:45:12.360 --> 00:45:16.920 The fact that we don't have his birth or death dates or known about his 401 00:45:17.000 --> 00:45:22.960 body. What are you suggesting that makes him so odd? Is it like 402 00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:27.239 he shows up like a mystery man? Or do you think he's an off 403 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:34.639 world type of being that shows up to give mankind a history that we don't 404 00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:40.079 understand. Well, I would, I would say all that. And Markey, 405 00:45:40.519 --> 00:45:47.039 first of all, he's with with with his archeological research. You know, 406 00:45:47.559 --> 00:45:54.800 he is presenting in a prestigious institution such as the Scientfic Society of Jiva 407 00:45:55.239 --> 00:46:02.719 Okay, a concept, you know, a possibility that of course breaks down 408 00:46:04.599 --> 00:46:12.320 Darwinism, breaks down mainstream history, you know, and he keeps he holds 409 00:46:12.400 --> 00:46:17.960 into that he is one way or the other, you know, like presenting 410 00:46:19.880 --> 00:46:28.559 a parallel view of our origins, of you know, our development, and 411 00:46:28.679 --> 00:46:34.440 I would say also of our destiny, you know. And I have thought 412 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:39.760 so many times why would he present that? He must have had so strong 413 00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:47.119 not only believe but facts, you know, and I wonder how he must 414 00:46:47.159 --> 00:46:57.840 also have failed when he was in no this field research, prestigious historians of 415 00:46:57.960 --> 00:47:02.840 Chile that were how and why would you present something that you know it's going 416 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:08.239 to just put you I think there was this, this, this very very 417 00:47:09.159 --> 00:47:17.639 strong idea. He obtained it first through his field research. And then there's 418 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:24.360 another important fact, which is he also wrote in one of his books that 419 00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:35.920 he had contact within indigenous informant and also this indigenous person shared with him ancient 420 00:47:36.039 --> 00:47:42.920 knowledge about you know, the cycles of time that they were here before in 421 00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:50.880 chilean end of this development of the civilization from South to north. So I 422 00:47:50.920 --> 00:47:57.280 would say, these are just some of the main fields or factors if you 423 00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:04.400 please, that where you know, going through his mind, so he could 424 00:48:04.480 --> 00:48:13.480 just present this this concept that I think are very very very close to also 425 00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:22.519 the mythical magical tradition of the selknam of all this to drive known in the 426 00:48:22.159 --> 00:48:30.800 in Patagonia, and also about their own Avocano Mapuche tradition. Let me go 427 00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:37.440 really fast to one one example once also with right right man in the south 428 00:48:37.519 --> 00:48:42.320 of the country. We have some visitors of precisely of the United States, 429 00:48:42.519 --> 00:48:49.800 and I have no idea how we came up with this field about the origins 430 00:48:49.840 --> 00:48:58.000 of mankind. Thinking to right, what's what's kind of like very very she 431 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:02.519 mega gesture, you know, within her right hand, pointing to to the 432 00:49:02.599 --> 00:49:09.880 soil, pointing to the ground, saying that we the Alcanos, have emerged 433 00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:16.679 from this land. We have never come from any other continent or other countries. 434 00:49:16.800 --> 00:49:25.719 This is where we have lived always and that I know it's not a 435 00:49:25.719 --> 00:49:34.400 scientific fact, right, but it is part of the oral tradition that you 436 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:38.199 know, she received from her mother, from her grandmother and so on since 437 00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:43.880 the beginning of their presence. So I want to say, I want to 438 00:49:43.920 --> 00:49:49.519 move, I want to move into his theories of the Antarctic Antarctic origins. 439 00:49:49.559 --> 00:49:55.119 But I want you to give us your feeling about this guy, because obviously, 440 00:49:55.239 --> 00:50:00.119 if he is around the nineteen hundreds and so for the Oven earlier, 441 00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:06.000 that's right in the thick of it when it comes to Darwinism. And if 442 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:12.280 he's an anti Darwinist theorist and he believes that Darwin's wrong, then he was 443 00:50:12.320 --> 00:50:16.480 probably going up against everybody. But do we have any sense of relatives, 444 00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:25.159 sisters, brothers, uncles, anybody related to ring info that gives us a 445 00:50:25.280 --> 00:50:32.760 sense of who this person is. Well, many years ago I had a 446 00:50:32.880 --> 00:50:42.360 chance to talk to one nephew of Professor Frankiva, and she said that she 447 00:50:42.519 --> 00:50:52.320 was very very young, and she had this image of like an explorer, 448 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:57.239 always full of dust, coming to Santiago for a couple of days and just 449 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:01.239 going back to the north, to the south, to the north. And 450 00:51:01.880 --> 00:51:09.159 I don't have more another testimony about him, besides all what I have said 451 00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:15.559 already about his lectures in the Scientific Society. I have some I have I 452 00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:23.440 have got some books that you know, have some handwritings of Frankie for so 453 00:51:24.679 --> 00:51:34.320 it's a very very mysterious person. And I have been researching his his uh 454 00:51:34.920 --> 00:51:40.920 work for I would say, thirty years, Cliff, and you just get 455 00:51:40.960 --> 00:51:45.519 to a point where you find your face a wall and can and you cannot 456 00:51:45.559 --> 00:51:52.840 go on farther than that. Now understanding understanding what we have been discussing here, 457 00:51:53.400 --> 00:52:02.320 for instance, on what reasons may have he had for presenting another view 458 00:52:04.559 --> 00:52:13.480 that you know, it's opposite to the darwin in theory or to mainstream history. 459 00:52:14.199 --> 00:52:20.320 I think he have, you know, like knowledge of things that he 460 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:28.599 was presenting, but I think they're missing works here. You know, it's 461 00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:31.719 my guess, it's my my I have a very strong intuition on that, 462 00:52:31.880 --> 00:52:37.400 on that, on that sense, and I have complimented I have complimented the 463 00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:46.920 work of Frankivo by studying, for instance, the Circonam culture stream South groups 464 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:53.440 of Chilean and they're parallels. You know, for instance that the same Secnam 465 00:52:53.840 --> 00:53:00.639 you know from tia Ra del Fuego claimed that they've arrived from a land just 466 00:53:00.920 --> 00:53:07.360 quite southerre. You have to kind of like start to feel a history that 467 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:14.159 it's uh, it has many many missing pieces, but with time, with 468 00:53:14.320 --> 00:53:21.519 time you you start to find also other chatters. For instance, a famous 469 00:53:21.719 --> 00:53:28.719 historian from Peru, Maria Rostowski. She wrote many books about the Inca civilization 470 00:53:28.800 --> 00:53:34.760 and of course about one thing, Shu Young. And among all her field 471 00:53:34.840 --> 00:53:37.400 work and you know, all the traditions, she was able to, you 472 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:46.480 know, record of the of the indigenous people. She also claimed that the 473 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:52.960 Vida Gochas came from the south of the world. Then you have she's psycheologists. 474 00:53:52.079 --> 00:53:58.559 Adolph Bandelier, he was in Chilean, he was later in Peru and 475 00:53:58.639 --> 00:54:06.280 in Bolivian. Later on he west also in the States. He also mentioned 476 00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:13.719 that they Virachas the founders of Tiahuanago, you know, the city of the 477 00:54:13.760 --> 00:54:17.639 White Gods, came from Chilo, came from the south of Chile. So 478 00:54:19.000 --> 00:54:25.559 what I'm saying with all this is that roy are very interesting, are very 479 00:54:25.599 --> 00:54:31.079 fascinating. But can they can be you know, complimented, They can be 480 00:54:31.199 --> 00:54:38.039 you know, developed in a parallel lines with the brace Banic traditions. Okay, 481 00:54:38.119 --> 00:54:44.880 okay, We're gonna pause here for a bit and take a commercial break 482 00:54:44.920 --> 00:54:50.519 to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, and we'll return shortly with my guest 483 00:54:50.559 --> 00:54:57.199 today, Raphael Eisman coming to us from Chile, South America. We'll be 484 00:54:57.400 --> 00:55:36.599 right back. My guest today is Raphael Eisman, who has written extensively on 485 00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:44.880 the archaeologist Roberto ringing Foe from Chile and his belief that mankind evolved and migrated 486 00:55:45.000 --> 00:55:58.440 from Antarctica. Let's talk about the Rufo theory of early humans coming from Antarctica. 487 00:55:58.639 --> 00:56:07.480 Now you're suggesting that the gods, the white gods, came from Antarctica, 488 00:56:07.559 --> 00:56:12.960 right, It's this, it's this kind of a theme that regularly Flow 489 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:22.239 presents to us. Yes, yes, Actually he goes even farther when he 490 00:56:22.360 --> 00:56:31.960 said that these first people that arrived from Antarctica through the extreme south of South 491 00:56:32.000 --> 00:56:39.360 America to the land of Chile. You know, they were called originally Chili's 492 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:49.719 okay got its name and via coaches. It's the name that they obtained in 493 00:56:49.719 --> 00:56:53.920 in the Indian world, as you know, like sort of nickname because they 494 00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:00.679 were like the masters of fire. And through his books, he you know, 495 00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:06.719 he refers to all this a fire of language, you know, and 496 00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:13.480 he develops like kind of like a chronology you know, from the very coaches 497 00:57:13.519 --> 00:57:19.320 originate from Antarctica. But they're not, Yes, they're they're considered gods by 498 00:57:19.360 --> 00:57:25.400 the local people because they're intelligent and they have skill a skill set that they 499 00:57:25.440 --> 00:57:30.679 don't and and this is why they're claimed gods. Is that what you're saying, 500 00:57:30.239 --> 00:57:37.000 Yes, yes, but but but that that's something that indigenous people or 501 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:43.679 what today we know as indigenous people, and you know, they received later 502 00:57:43.800 --> 00:57:52.000 on because according according to these to the very first traditions, there was some 503 00:57:52.119 --> 00:57:54.719 sort of like time of the gods, like some sort of like golden age 504 00:57:55.159 --> 00:58:02.320 in Americas. You know, you study the myths for instance of Tiaguanaco, 505 00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:10.679 the myths of the Selknam of the Chachapoyas, or the miss American world, 506 00:58:12.119 --> 00:58:19.039 and you find in all the different cultures and civilizations that there was some sort 507 00:58:19.119 --> 00:58:24.639 of golden age when the gods walk on earth. You know, they created 508 00:58:24.719 --> 00:58:30.840 mankind. Later on, something happened and they vanished, they disappeared, you 509 00:58:30.880 --> 00:58:37.199 know, and these people and later much later on the rest of the other 510 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:42.440 people that came from different parts of the world, they start to you know, 511 00:58:42.519 --> 00:58:49.599 like venerate the memory of the gods. So I'm curious, let's get 512 00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:54.480 into some time factors. Because we've been talking here with a number of different 513 00:58:54.519 --> 00:59:02.599 scientists and researchers like yourself, who places the earth in five epochs, and 514 00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:10.280 the earliest epoch goes back four hundred thousand years. And so what is Renefou 515 00:59:12.760 --> 00:59:17.880 speculating these early Vera coaches are coming to Chile? What year, what time 516 00:59:17.920 --> 00:59:24.000 frame? He's not giving Cliff, He's not giving an exact date. He 517 00:59:24.079 --> 00:59:31.280 only refers that these first people are kind of came from Antarctica at the time 518 00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:40.760 of the great flots you know. But then you have another fascinating like field, 519 00:59:40.840 --> 00:59:46.480 because according to the glacial cosmogony of Hans Horbiger and Philip Fouds, you 520 00:59:46.559 --> 00:59:53.159 have at least four great floods, you know, which are theogic geological mirrors. 521 00:59:53.800 --> 01:00:01.119 In the coltroon or sacred Trump of the a Kano Mapuchem, you know, 522 01:00:01.239 --> 01:00:07.000 you have this sort of mandala design in the in the in the in 523 01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:14.400 this sacred trump. It's divided also in four parts. I asked once two 524 01:00:14.480 --> 01:00:20.840 king to Rive, what is the meaning of this, you know, Coultron 525 01:00:20.920 --> 01:00:22.639 and the Simus, and she said, like, these are the four great 526 01:00:22.800 --> 01:00:30.679 years or suns. So you have this common roots, common fields in in 527 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:37.639 I must say, traditional world field. So answering your question, Proverto and 528 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:45.920 Hippol does not give like a chronology of the origin of mankind itself, but 529 01:00:46.760 --> 01:00:54.519 he gives an antiquity of at least at least thirty three thousand years old in 530 01:00:54.599 --> 01:01:01.960 Tierra del Fuevo, thirty three thousand years for the arrival of our veracocha or 531 01:01:02.079 --> 01:01:08.840 thirty three thousand years for the for the creation of fire. Okay, but 532 01:01:10.880 --> 01:01:16.360 I have I have of course thought about this and say like this is part 533 01:01:16.400 --> 01:01:22.400 of you know, like the site geist. Again, he would not break 534 01:01:22.639 --> 01:01:29.199 that chronology, you know, I would say it's way way much older than 535 01:01:29.239 --> 01:01:36.559 that. Okay, but those are the dates he he he gave. Okay, 536 01:01:36.639 --> 01:01:38.719 let me let me ask you. In this paper that you wrote on 537 01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:49.880 Roberto ringing Fo, this archaeologist he you write about a number of Earth catastrophes, 538 01:01:50.480 --> 01:01:54.360 and the earliest you write is five hundred and eighty thousand years ago. 539 01:01:55.719 --> 01:02:00.079 Yes, and then there's one that's more recent, which is more of like 540 01:02:00.159 --> 01:02:07.639 the Biblical catastrophe, which was about thirteen thousand years ago. Is the early 541 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:12.960 Earth chronicle of the fifty eight thousand years? Is that? Is that written 542 01:02:13.039 --> 01:02:17.960 down in some ancient history or is that from geological records that we find that 543 01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:27.639 day. Do you do you mean cliff the time chronology of the Glasher cosmogony. 544 01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:36.039 Yes, well, that's that's a very very like controversial you know concept 545 01:02:36.360 --> 01:02:45.159 Holy Year and Philip Fout they took them about, i would say, almost 546 01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:51.440 twenty years to to you know, write down the Glasha cosmogony at the first 547 01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:58.039 first you know, like like the first reaction of scholars, of of people 548 01:02:58.079 --> 01:03:04.679 in general, of the academic world, US strong reaction against against what they 549 01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:09.400 were claiming. Basically, they say that the solar system is older, you 550 01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:15.760 know, of what it has been considered, therefore the age of Earth it's 551 01:03:15.840 --> 01:03:24.119 older, and of course of the apparition of almost sapiens. And they were 552 01:03:24.880 --> 01:03:31.239 just like rank for you know, they became like outsiders. And it's interesting 553 01:03:31.239 --> 01:03:38.880 because many like fields that Horby Gear claim for instance, for instance, like 554 01:03:38.920 --> 01:03:44.880 that the under the surface of the moon you will find eyes, something that 555 01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:50.039 today we know it is like that, you know then of the antiquity of 556 01:03:50.800 --> 01:03:55.639 this branch where we called almost sappien sapience throughout the world. It's also something 557 01:03:55.719 --> 01:04:01.400 that hanscore Biggar, Philip Fauson and their disciples, you know, we're able 558 01:04:01.440 --> 01:04:09.920 to sustain. We're talking almost one hundred years ago. So what happens here 559 01:04:09.960 --> 01:04:16.599 is that these four great Eras or suns in the mythical language, according to 560 01:04:16.679 --> 01:04:25.480 Horby, here they represent them four remain four geological eras, because in each 561 01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:32.039 of these eras you have had these you know, like great catastrophes that have 562 01:04:33.679 --> 01:04:46.079 destroyed or surface, just remaining some you know, living creatures through luck in 563 01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:53.599 the case of mankind, because they were like you know, they were able 564 01:04:53.639 --> 01:05:00.639 to build a shelter or you know, build an arc You know that where 565 01:05:00.079 --> 01:05:06.000 was you know, the refuge And of course this is something that you find 566 01:05:06.039 --> 01:05:13.400 in the Bible, but everyone knows today that that's the last version of a 567 01:05:13.559 --> 01:05:17.599 very very old tradition that you find in India, you find in Germany, 568 01:05:17.679 --> 01:05:21.679 you find in the Scandinavian countries, in North America, and of course here 569 01:05:21.719 --> 01:05:27.719 in South America. So trying to put all this together, trying also to 570 01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:33.320 answer your question, I would say that when Hippo did not go into this 571 01:05:34.159 --> 01:05:42.800 chronology because I I don't I can tell you, but I think there's there 572 01:05:42.800 --> 01:05:48.679 are missing parts and hips work, and there's a missing chapter on my on 573 01:05:48.719 --> 01:05:58.559 my view and of all what he has uh written there there's no like perfect 574 01:05:58.639 --> 01:06:05.920 chronology. Asked these dates that I was mentioning you, and he describes though 575 01:06:06.039 --> 01:06:14.840 that I'm remembering also like a very you know, great antiquity though. But 576 01:06:15.760 --> 01:06:26.039 he said that all this this well development of mankind took place in the south 577 01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:36.400 of South American Antarctica. And that also brings us to and populary researcher Francisco 578 01:06:36.519 --> 01:06:45.480 or Pascayo Moreno, which is an naturalist explorer, claimed that the origin of 579 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:50.679 mankind was in Patagonia. He came up with this idea, I would say 580 01:06:51.119 --> 01:06:58.679 eighteen sixty sixty one, nineteen sixty two. And he also was part of 581 01:06:58.719 --> 01:07:03.639 the scientific idea of Argentina, you know. So Moreno, that's give you 582 01:07:03.679 --> 01:07:10.280 know, chrono chronology, you know. But I must insist on this point. 583 01:07:10.400 --> 01:07:18.960 Leave and I think they're missing missing chapters on Kivos uh work, you 584 01:07:19.000 --> 01:07:25.199 know. So yeah, So, so I want to move on real quickly 585 01:07:25.239 --> 01:07:33.639 to this article that you wrote and the amazing Antarctic maps, the Larrentis Finale, 586 01:07:35.199 --> 01:07:43.880 and talk a little bit about that it actually shows Antarctica without any snow 587 01:07:43.960 --> 01:07:47.400 on it and also shows it with great detail. Talk a little bit about 588 01:07:47.480 --> 01:07:53.400 the origins of that map. Well, just like you know, a glaims 589 01:07:53.599 --> 01:08:00.159 uh As we have been talking. Kip back in nineteen nineteen claims that the 590 01:08:00.599 --> 01:08:09.599 that humankind comes from Antarctica. The only source, you know, history source 591 01:08:10.360 --> 01:08:18.600 that he mentions, it's a chronica written by soldier and poet Alonso DECII Suniga 592 01:08:19.079 --> 01:08:29.880 called the Alokana fifteen seventy four, and Siauniga wrote on the first part of 593 01:08:29.920 --> 01:08:38.199 his book about Chile the fertile province in the famous Antarctic region. You know, 594 01:08:38.239 --> 01:08:42.760 it's interesting this, even though it might sound like a detail, but 595 01:08:43.159 --> 01:08:48.560 the Cia and Suniga was one of the last, you know, like very 596 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:57.079 illustrated Gronistas, you know, and his contemporary with all these people you know 597 01:08:57.319 --> 01:09:04.720 of Europe, that one way the other presented Antarctica in a time where no 598 01:09:04.800 --> 01:09:11.439 one should know that there was at all Antarctica. So I have called these 599 01:09:11.960 --> 01:09:16.920 the impossible maps. For instance, the one of Francesco Rosselli, of course, 600 01:09:16.920 --> 01:09:21.840 the famous period raised map Loco Home and or Onto, Sinaos Girardi, 601 01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:29.000 Mattia Squad and Philip Watch from France, all of them, all of them. 602 01:09:29.119 --> 01:09:33.279 Of course, there was an English cartographer by the name of Mercurio Britannico. 603 01:09:33.640 --> 01:09:44.880 They give a geographical description of the large mass in the polar Antarctic region. 604 01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:50.159 So we have to wonder what is really the sense of history and how 605 01:09:50.239 --> 01:09:59.720 come you know they knew? That's my question. My question is that when 606 01:09:59.840 --> 01:10:04.800 we look at say Charles Hapgood's early maps in his book Maps of the Ancient 607 01:10:04.840 --> 01:10:11.640 Sea Kings, it looks like some of those early maps were taken from a 608 01:10:11.760 --> 01:10:20.319 very sophisticated civilization, and in some cases it's questionable if they had flying apparatus, 609 01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:27.479 planes, satellites or whatever, because the view is so accurate and it's 610 01:10:27.520 --> 01:10:31.560 so ancient, tens of thousands of years because the North Paul has no ice. 611 01:10:32.960 --> 01:10:36.039 And so when I look at this map that you have, this Antarctica 612 01:10:36.840 --> 01:10:42.079 map, it looks like it's could be thousands and thousands of years old. 613 01:10:42.760 --> 01:10:47.279 How do you explain that does bring us back to the glacial cosmogony, that 614 01:10:47.359 --> 01:10:55.119 brings us back to what today we refer as the Golden Age, when the 615 01:10:55.560 --> 01:11:00.319 gods walked, you know, on Earth. I'm thinking right now, for 616 01:11:00.359 --> 01:11:03.680 instance, like how come no one knew about vector when he from Chile? 617 01:11:04.399 --> 01:11:11.079 Of course, in another countries would be like not even a topic. You 618 01:11:11.119 --> 01:11:15.840 know, how can we even know about the white gods? I'm going to 619 01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:23.720 you know, send pictures of respanic iconography with gods of blue eyes, with 620 01:11:23.800 --> 01:11:27.479 blue eyes? You know, how come we don't know about How can we 621 01:11:27.600 --> 01:11:30.960 even know about the impossible maps? You know? So once again we have 622 01:11:31.079 --> 01:11:39.239 this this like manipulation, We have this this like very very how can we 623 01:11:39.279 --> 01:11:44.840 put it, Cliff like this, I don't know even how to explain how 624 01:11:44.920 --> 01:11:48.399 history has so wrong? How he This is what I'm boroused about. This 625 01:11:48.439 --> 01:11:54.199 is why we have you on the program, Raphael, is that here in 626 01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:59.159 the United States we get one version of history, a very myopic, one 627 01:11:59.239 --> 01:12:04.359 sided West Stern culture, non adiatic, non African centric, non anywhere else 628 01:12:04.399 --> 01:12:10.119 in the world point of view. We have a very very central focused, 629 01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:15.760 I believe, out of touch. Uh look at history, and when we 630 01:12:15.840 --> 01:12:21.439 talk to you, we you bring in a whole new body of research and 631 01:12:21.720 --> 01:12:32.079 evidence that says the world was formed and it was populated by very sophisticated people 632 01:12:32.600 --> 01:12:42.880 that are not in our history books. Yeah. Well for instance too like 633 01:12:43.359 --> 01:12:50.720 trying to to to make sense like we have this trout Kifel, wonderful explorer, 634 01:12:50.920 --> 01:12:58.800 researcher. He presented his ideas, you know, in a prestigious institution 635 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:03.680 as in the Amazon Jangle. He came up with a similar idea part of 636 01:13:03.840 --> 01:13:12.159 the Amazona. You have famous years and years of studying the ruins of Tiajuanaco, 637 01:13:12.319 --> 01:13:16.560 of Pumapunko and of the Indian world in general. He claim up also 638 01:13:17.159 --> 01:13:24.760 that mankind came from the Andies. He actually wrote a book which was published 639 01:13:24.840 --> 01:13:30.159 after his death, and interestingly enough, the title was changed. The original 640 01:13:30.199 --> 01:13:38.319 title of Ponzlaski book was Tiajuanaco The Cradle of Mankind, and after his death 641 01:13:38.560 --> 01:13:45.439 the title changed into Fiaguanaco, the Cradle of South American Mankind, which is 642 01:13:45.920 --> 01:13:53.279 something else. Let me go even farther than that. You have another interesting 643 01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:59.479 researcher, Juan Morris. I don't know if you have heard about him. 644 01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:09.319 He's the discoverer of the Taios Cave. Mhm no, the Taio's Cave are 645 01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:15.159 this? It's this like underground city in Ecuador where Nil Armstrong was also like 646 01:14:15.479 --> 01:14:21.439 part of. At one stage back in nineteen seventies or something like that, 647 01:14:21.479 --> 01:14:28.840 he was just returning from the moon and he was presented that there was another 648 01:14:28.920 --> 01:14:33.000 horizon here on earth. He actually went all the way to Ecuador. Uh 649 01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:40.560 well, but the point is that one mode is also claimed that the European 650 01:14:40.960 --> 01:14:48.479 culture originated in South America before before the cultural horizon of the indigenous people. 651 01:14:49.159 --> 01:14:57.840 You know, then you have back Also in the nineteen thirties, German archeologist 652 01:14:57.920 --> 01:15:08.920 and explorer Edmund Kiss He also claimed about this very indigenous several civilizations that you 653 01:15:08.960 --> 01:15:17.600 know have has been partially destroyed with these great flaws and work catastrophe. So 654 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:24.079 what we have live here is that it's not just one researcher, it's not 655 01:15:24.239 --> 01:15:31.680 just one line of investigation or research that has claimed that there is another history. 656 01:15:32.000 --> 01:15:39.840 And you know you mentioned the existence of high tech civilizations. Well we 657 01:15:39.920 --> 01:15:46.680 have we have just vestiges very in front of us. Last year we were 658 01:15:47.039 --> 01:15:56.159 in Tiaguena punk the blocks that blocks that we find that we can see that 659 01:15:56.199 --> 01:16:01.720 we can study in Puma Punko. Until today we have no idea who made 660 01:16:01.720 --> 01:16:10.840 them and how they were made, you know, and we have i would 661 01:16:10.880 --> 01:16:16.079 say many other sites throughout the world that have the same unanswered question. Wow. 662 01:16:16.560 --> 01:16:20.000 So as we conclude, Raphael, I want you to talk a little 663 01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:26.399 bit about some of the ancient cities that you've actually seen that are thousands and 664 01:16:26.479 --> 01:16:32.319 thousands of years older than uh say two two Khan or Tikal or some of 665 01:16:32.359 --> 01:16:41.680 the big Maya cities. Talk a little bit about the El Plomo uh city 666 01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:47.319 that you discovered, and maybe one or two others that you've personally uh gone 667 01:16:47.399 --> 01:16:57.319 and visited. Well, Diplomo, it's it's where where is your Plomo? 668 01:16:57.560 --> 01:17:01.399 L Plomo? First, it's it's uh, it's in front of Santiago, 669 01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:08.000 Chile. Okay, it's in the Andy's Mountain range. And you have to 670 01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:13.680 help me out because I it's like around five thousand, four hundred meters about 671 01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:19.640 sea level up there. Yeah, it's really it's really high. Actually, 672 01:17:21.039 --> 01:17:27.279 it took us around three days all the way to get up. I have 673 01:17:27.439 --> 01:17:32.560 been there twice. The very first time was very very cold, even though 674 01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:39.399 it was summertime for us. That was February of the Southern Hemisphere, and 675 01:17:39.920 --> 01:17:45.560 it was it was just three of us the ones that were able to reach 676 01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:49.399 all the way. There's out that here, specially in South America and to 677 01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:56.199 scifically into the Andean world. You have this, I would say since the 678 01:17:56.239 --> 01:18:00.920 time of the Contista or is the idea of lost cities, of gold cities 679 01:18:00.039 --> 01:18:05.720 and you know, very impressive treasures. And it turns out that of what 680 01:18:05.920 --> 01:18:13.840 a half research, around nineteen twenty nine, some people phoned, you know, 681 01:18:14.319 --> 01:18:20.520 near Aploma golden idols you know that they sold to the Museum of Natural 682 01:18:20.640 --> 01:18:27.880 History of Sage. So these people kept digging, you know, kept for 683 01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:35.640 searching, and in nineteen fifty four they discovered a mummy with a very rich 684 01:18:36.000 --> 01:18:40.520 group of figures, you know, in this tomb. And it was not 685 01:18:40.880 --> 01:18:45.600 at the summit of a Ploma, but nearby, so it was a very 686 01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:51.199 important archeological discovery. Actually some archeologists from the States game and of course of 687 01:18:51.359 --> 01:18:58.079 Peru. Because the first idea these people had was that the Inca, that 688 01:18:58.199 --> 01:19:02.279 the mummy was from Inca origin, you know, because they are like common 689 01:19:02.359 --> 01:19:06.720 patterns you find, for instance in the textiles of the Afghan or Mapuches, 690 01:19:08.279 --> 01:19:13.760 almost the same symbols that you are going to find among the hobbies. Okay, 691 01:19:14.119 --> 01:19:19.640 So what they claim at the beginning was this is an income, I 692 01:19:19.720 --> 01:19:28.560 mean, and it's funny because they were covered by eyes around three to four 693 01:19:29.039 --> 01:19:34.319 constructions, saying over five thousand meters above the sea level. So I have 694 01:19:34.520 --> 01:19:41.479 been myself. There are your hands, your feet, your face is freezing, 695 01:19:41.840 --> 01:19:49.920 even though you have all the appropriate clothing. Okay, I have no 696 01:19:50.199 --> 01:19:59.680 idea how this great, amazing people were able not only to go all the 697 01:19:59.760 --> 01:20:04.199 way yup two three four hundred, five hundred years ago, even more with 698 01:20:04.720 --> 01:20:10.920 clothes that didn't have any known technology, at least for us, you know. 699 01:20:11.319 --> 01:20:15.920 So it turns out that ever since they're having you know, like archaeological 700 01:20:15.159 --> 01:20:23.239 studies also you know, scanner to they scanned the mummy, which turns out 701 01:20:23.319 --> 01:20:30.159 to be a boy who has until today, it's not part of any of 702 01:20:30.479 --> 01:20:34.399 the four regions of the Taiwan tim Suyo. So he's that mummy is not 703 01:20:34.640 --> 01:20:40.840 from that area, is what you're saying. It is not genetically. Genetically 704 01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:47.560 it could be either from the Titicaca Lake or from this Attakama desert. But 705 01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:54.600 he's not from from Cusco, He's not from the from an Inca inca royal 706 01:20:55.079 --> 01:21:00.239 family. Of course, he belonged to a royal family to be sacrificed. 707 01:21:00.720 --> 01:21:06.920 Okay. Now what happens here is that these peercasts or way cast that is, 708 01:21:08.239 --> 01:21:14.680 sacred constructions that you find there, they have like alignment with the appearance 709 01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:20.199 of the Sun. Now I said, they have because you go today even 710 01:21:20.279 --> 01:21:26.960 though it's all the way, uh, it's very high. You you have 711 01:21:27.239 --> 01:21:31.239 just fragments of these constructions. I have no idea what happened. You know, 712 01:21:31.399 --> 01:21:38.119 you don't find these standing constructions there, you know, you just find 713 01:21:38.560 --> 01:21:44.840 the basement of the of these uh, these sacred spaces. Okay. Now 714 01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:51.399 the most most of the figures, of these symbolic figures are part of the 715 01:21:53.000 --> 01:22:00.439 archaeological collection of them the historian Natural Santiago. Okay, now i've they're all 716 01:22:00.479 --> 01:22:03.119 what I have research. After all, what I have studied about this, 717 01:22:03.479 --> 01:22:13.920 this mummy. It's interesting to think, why would this whoever have this idea 718 01:22:14.119 --> 01:22:21.439 of bringing up and sacrifice these inti Wahwas or children of the sun because their 719 01:22:21.520 --> 01:22:30.039 soul too high peak and this you know spaces. Why would they you know, 720 01:22:30.279 --> 01:22:34.159 carry this children of the Sun all the way there for sacrifice? Of 721 01:22:34.239 --> 01:22:40.560 course, of course there was goca leaves offerings. They were like to the 722 01:22:40.680 --> 01:22:46.359 ancestors, to the spirits of the monted and they're there are interesting facts that 723 01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:51.359 I would like to share, for instance, especially especially about this Inti Wahwa. 724 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:59.640 The observations of those witnesses are simply striking. All of them claim that 725 01:23:00.079 --> 01:23:06.039 the mummy seemed to have been sleeping without any sign of being a corpse. 726 01:23:08.039 --> 01:23:11.640 Let me stop you real quickly. When you're talking about these mummies, are 727 01:23:11.680 --> 01:23:16.720 you also talking about these these little girls they found frozen and they're perfectly preserved, 728 01:23:16.720 --> 01:23:23.399 that are thousands of years old? Yes, yes, okay, they're 729 01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:28.439 not. They're not mummies in the typical Egyptological sense where they're wrapped up. 730 01:23:28.880 --> 01:23:33.079 No, no, no, But but I don't think that that was what 731 01:23:33.199 --> 01:23:40.359 they wanted. Whoever took these inti wah wah, I don't think they were. 732 01:23:40.600 --> 01:23:45.359 I don't think they were planning to have them wrapped us we have in 733 01:23:45.520 --> 01:23:51.880 Egypt, you know, because they kind of knew about these what I say, 734 01:23:53.199 --> 01:24:00.359 what I called palio cryogenization. They so to preserve these genetic memory of 735 01:24:00.479 --> 01:24:05.760 the descendants of the gods. They knew how to perceive DNA. In Chile, 736 01:24:06.239 --> 01:24:13.920 in Argentina, in Peru we have I would say, over one hundred 737 01:24:14.640 --> 01:24:21.000 sides with children of the Sun up there. So I don't think it was 738 01:24:21.199 --> 01:24:30.600 just a random ritual per se ceremony to have brought the royal families, you 739 01:24:30.680 --> 01:24:38.840 know, of these descendants of the gods m I would say that these temple 740 01:24:38.960 --> 01:24:43.319 refuges in the high peaks, in the sacred spaces of the Andean worldview, 741 01:24:44.359 --> 01:24:48.520 you know, where the perfect space for crionization. You know, they knew, 742 01:24:48.880 --> 01:24:55.520 they knew with another technology, that their blood, that the teeth that 743 01:24:55.640 --> 01:25:00.880 they heard they put in these sacred bags was going to be in one time, 744 01:25:01.039 --> 01:25:05.960 at one point analyzed, and that's what we have today. So you're 745 01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:13.680 you're saying that you believe the ancient people froze these younger mummies, so at 746 01:25:13.760 --> 01:25:16.479 some point in the future they would be brought back to life. Yes, 747 01:25:17.199 --> 01:25:26.399 yes, and if not them, they genetical information they have. It's it's 748 01:25:27.399 --> 01:25:30.880 when when I came up with this, it was so striking for me because 749 01:25:31.560 --> 01:25:38.119 they have these little bags a gay made out of lama wool, and you 750 01:25:38.239 --> 01:25:46.720 have the archaeological description it contained teeth, hair, and nails. And once 751 01:25:47.079 --> 01:25:56.880 you start to study what are today fundamental preservers of DNA are hair, teeth, 752 01:25:57.279 --> 01:26:03.279 and nails. Wow, So I wonder how would they know what source 753 01:26:03.399 --> 01:26:12.239 did they have? Of course probably the quote paleotechnology was enhancer or part of 754 01:26:12.279 --> 01:26:17.359 the knowledge of some And then with the pass of time, this scientific knowledge 755 01:26:17.800 --> 01:26:25.000 became part of a mythical, magical knowledge. But in both cases this DNA 756 01:26:26.359 --> 01:26:31.199 was preserved. Why Cliff and all to all those friends that are listening to 757 01:26:31.399 --> 01:26:42.560 us, why would they clean up such such high peaks, such unreachable mountains 758 01:26:42.800 --> 01:26:47.039 that you don't even know if you're going to be able to return in a 759 01:26:47.159 --> 01:26:55.920 ploma Even today, some people die today, the glaciers are shrinking, are 760 01:26:56.000 --> 01:27:00.399 not as they were five hundred years ago or one thousand years years ago. 761 01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:06.279 Okay, but even though it's when you when you are cleaning up, I 762 01:27:06.319 --> 01:27:12.199 don't know, like over five thousand, four thousand and five thousand meters, 763 01:27:12.840 --> 01:27:15.840 you you have another experience of life. You start to say, like, 764 01:27:15.960 --> 01:27:20.560 well, any times you can you know, fall down, and that's it. 765 01:27:21.159 --> 01:27:27.319 So let's think about why would these people do that, not only as 766 01:27:27.399 --> 01:27:30.000 some people do today for sports, you know, for adrenaline. They were 767 01:27:30.079 --> 01:27:36.720 doing it for a sacred reason, you know, to preserve these bodies for 768 01:27:36.920 --> 01:27:44.159 what That's when I think that our ideas have to go beyond even what Baluceti 769 01:27:44.520 --> 01:27:50.560 means, and and and being myself a palocity research, I think this Inti 770 01:27:50.680 --> 01:27:57.119 war was the children of the Sun where sacrifice in the high speaks of the 771 01:27:57.239 --> 01:28:01.800 andies waiting for the return of the gods of the powerful Vida coaches. Question 772 01:28:02.039 --> 01:28:10.399 is when and how would they wake up? And what message thus the genetic 773 01:28:10.920 --> 01:28:17.720 code of this mummy of diploma Curry. Yeah, amazing, Raphael Eisman. 774 01:28:17.920 --> 01:28:23.199 As always, it's a pleasure speaking with you, and we get an education 775 01:28:23.560 --> 01:28:30.199 on the research and the views of early man from South America. And there's 776 01:28:30.279 --> 01:28:34.479 so much to know and so much to take in. As we conclude, 777 01:28:35.319 --> 01:28:44.439 do you feel that the great waves of of UAPs that are in Chile and 778 01:28:44.560 --> 01:28:49.479 Peru and South America as a whole have any connection with these mummies whatsoever or 779 01:28:49.560 --> 01:28:59.319 any of the current races of hominins. Yes, yes, I think they 780 01:28:59.359 --> 01:29:09.920 are like ancestral connections throughout throughout the world. And you mentioned something that actually 781 01:29:10.159 --> 01:29:15.359 like also happened to me, like why we're just learning history. I'm connected 782 01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:18.520 here in Chile, for instance, we were like told the history these are 783 01:29:18.680 --> 01:29:24.920 the for instance, the Prespanic groups, and thus are today our boundaries. 784 01:29:25.239 --> 01:29:30.680 That doesn't mean that there were those boundaries in the past. Oceans have never 785 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:35.319 been boundaries. On the opposite, they have been the connection fields. You 786 01:29:35.439 --> 01:29:43.079 know, from South America and North America Asia, also in the Atlantic side. 787 01:29:43.239 --> 01:29:47.039 So I think at one point the evidence where we're finding, when we're 788 01:29:47.520 --> 01:29:54.800 you know, like researching, it's going to bring us necessary to understand there 789 01:29:54.960 --> 01:29:59.159 was another history in the past, and of course there's another history in the 790 01:29:59.199 --> 01:30:02.960 present, right, excellent. How can people get more information from you? 791 01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:09.199 Give us your Facebook page, your Twitter, your Instagram, all right, 792 01:30:09.680 --> 01:30:16.640 so that people can people can get more information. It's up over usman dot 793 01:30:16.760 --> 01:30:23.159 blogspot dot com. And I'm going to send you some minutes from now link 794 01:30:23.239 --> 01:30:27.880 to our website where we have you know, so perfect, Yeah, send 795 01:30:27.920 --> 01:30:32.000 me some photographs. Will create a gallery on Facebook of these mummies. Oh 796 01:30:32.159 --> 01:30:40.439 I will, and of the symbology from the early the early races that migrated 797 01:30:40.560 --> 01:30:46.319 from Antarctica. Yes, I will. Okay, fantastic, My friend. 798 01:30:46.359 --> 01:30:49.840 Has been a pleasure as always, and we'll have to talk to you again. 799 01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:54.399 Thank you for your time. Thank you Cliff for inviting me. It's 800 01:30:54.479 --> 01:30:57.760 always a pleasure and a lot to beat. Part once again of another interview. 801 01:30:58.119 --> 01:31:08.880 Thanks as always. It's an interesting interview to have Raphael on his reference 802 01:31:09.000 --> 01:31:15.479 to books by rningfo Are A bit of a challenge because when I find them. 803 01:31:15.520 --> 01:31:21.119 They're all in Spanish, and I do know that there are a few 804 01:31:21.279 --> 01:31:26.079 articles. And by the way, I am going to post the article. 805 01:31:26.560 --> 01:31:32.239 It's called Robertal ringingfo and the Polar Antarctic Origins of Mankind. I'm going to 806 01:31:32.279 --> 01:31:39.680 post it in its entirety. Plus look for the galleries. Now, there's 807 01:31:39.720 --> 01:31:44.960 some examples of this light skin race that are indigenous people, and there are 808 01:31:45.279 --> 01:31:49.319 in Chile, but they're also in Peru. There's a couple of examples, 809 01:31:49.560 --> 01:31:56.960 and there are a number of examples of these white gods, the Verracocha that 810 01:31:57.119 --> 01:32:00.760 he has sent me. So look for that gallery on Facebook Earth Ancients Facebook. 811 01:32:00.800 --> 01:32:04.680 It's going to be on the fan page and the group page, so 812 01:32:04.960 --> 01:32:11.399 there's two places to find it. The other thing is this interesting child mummy 813 01:32:11.560 --> 01:32:15.520 that was found the high Peruvian Mountains. What mean weigh the heck up in 814 01:32:15.560 --> 01:32:19.720 the mountains? Like over? I think I think it's like twenty thousand feet, 815 01:32:19.880 --> 01:32:27.359 just some incredible height. You can see that video on Facebook. There's 816 01:32:27.399 --> 01:32:29.880 no other way for me to get it to you. Oh excuse me. 817 01:32:30.039 --> 01:32:33.800 You can actually also see it on Earth Ancients dot com under Facebook feed. 818 01:32:33.840 --> 01:32:38.920 If you're not a fan of the social media side. It's the only way 819 01:32:38.960 --> 01:32:44.000 you can see this video, these galleries and these evidence of the vera cuchia. 820 01:32:45.159 --> 01:32:48.439 So much more to know, so much we don't know. Again, 821 01:32:48.640 --> 01:32:54.079 in the beginning of this program, I mentioned that we are very limited because 822 01:32:54.119 --> 01:33:02.439 of Western culture's inability or lack of interest in using other sources of information on 823 01:33:03.840 --> 01:33:11.960 Homo sapien sapien on the evolution and kind and the migration. You know, 824 01:33:12.159 --> 01:33:15.800 the story that we get is bearing straight to the Americas, and that's just 825 01:33:15.000 --> 01:33:23.079 not true. It's turning out it's it's completely false. Whatever humans did trickle 826 01:33:23.159 --> 01:33:26.640 down there, there was a few of them. It's looking more and more 827 01:33:26.720 --> 01:33:32.000 like maritime people traveled to the Americas by boat, either through the Atlantic or 828 01:33:32.039 --> 01:33:43.640 the Pacific. And now with Regufos information, here's another aspect of mankind developing 829 01:33:43.800 --> 01:33:49.960 in an art and Antarctica than migrating north through South America into North America. 830 01:33:51.399 --> 01:33:56.319 We just don't know enough about it, you know, until somebody finds a 831 01:33:56.439 --> 01:34:02.720 codex, some some historical notions about where man evolved, it really looks like 832 01:34:02.840 --> 01:34:08.199 there were like we're a petri dish, and what that means is that there 833 01:34:08.239 --> 01:34:15.600 were spawnings of Homo sapiens in China, in Australia, in Africa, in 834 01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:21.840 America or Antarctica. And that's just shows that is the great possibility. How 835 01:34:23.520 --> 01:34:30.000 do these early hominins arrive at these locations, evolve, become Homo sapiens, 836 01:34:30.640 --> 01:34:39.399 and then migrate through those locations I just mentioned. It's really fascinating, but 837 01:34:39.520 --> 01:34:44.720 it's also confusing because it's like, well, who's right and who's wrong? 838 01:34:45.439 --> 01:34:48.319 To say that what we read in our history books is the only way and 839 01:34:48.520 --> 01:34:58.000 is the right way is becoming not only a problem, but most likely the 840 01:34:58.119 --> 01:35:03.039 wrong perspective to take, and our own arrogance, and I should say our 841 01:35:03.199 --> 01:35:09.720 historians arrogance, and you get this in National Geographic, the Smithsonian, just 842 01:35:09.920 --> 01:35:17.720 our general associated press news that Africa is the spawning ground for Homo sapiens is 843 01:35:17.800 --> 01:35:24.159 wrong, And why this is not being corrected is anyone's guest, But most 844 01:35:24.239 --> 01:35:29.439 likely it's the fact that we just are refusing, or I should say Western 845 01:35:29.600 --> 01:35:33.840 historians refused to rewrite history, and so, like I said, they tend 846 01:35:33.920 --> 01:35:41.600 to take documents more seriously than any other oral traditions. And it won't in 847 01:35:41.680 --> 01:35:45.399 our lifetime. It will probably stay that way and then the next the next 848 01:35:45.479 --> 01:35:50.960 generations will start using oral traditions, and maybe by that time new documents will 849 01:35:51.000 --> 01:35:57.399 will come out that reveal that there are a number of locations where Homo sapiens 850 01:35:57.479 --> 01:36:09.159 were spawned and developed. Fascinating consideration and something to think about. Hey, 851 01:36:09.199 --> 01:36:11.920 I want to mention thank you, thank you, thank you for all the 852 01:36:12.199 --> 01:36:16.560 happy birthday wishes on my Facebook page. I I, you know, birthdays 853 01:36:16.600 --> 01:36:21.720 come and go, and I had a little gathering, but you know, 854 01:36:21.840 --> 01:36:30.479 your your thank you're well wishing and birthday wishes were really heartfelt and just made 855 01:36:30.520 --> 01:36:33.479 me feel great, you know, and I appreciate them. So those of 856 01:36:33.520 --> 01:36:39.840 you who reached out through Facebook and wished me a happy birthday, thank you. 857 01:36:40.319 --> 01:36:45.039 I was very happy to hear from so many people. It's always nice 858 01:36:45.079 --> 01:36:49.720 to be appreciated. So thanks. All right, Hey, I want to 859 01:36:50.520 --> 01:36:55.079 promote a couple of tours that are coming up. We still have a few 860 01:36:55.159 --> 01:37:00.880 spots left for our annual Mexico tour. It is November tenth to the seventeenth. 861 01:37:00.960 --> 01:37:05.520 We're gonna be in southern Mexico. We meet in Villa Homosa, which 862 01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:11.520 is the heart of the OMEC world, where we venture over to Leventa for 863 01:37:11.640 --> 01:37:15.800 a day. We're gonna see the museums. One of the world's most formidable 864 01:37:16.479 --> 01:37:21.680 outdoor museums is in Leventa. Will be there. We're gonna see the ruins, 865 01:37:23.399 --> 01:37:28.479 and then weep bus to Polanki, one of the crown jewels of the 866 01:37:28.640 --> 01:37:34.720 Maya dynasty. Our guest host is doctor Edwin Barnhard. He will show us 867 01:37:35.159 --> 01:37:42.239 the basics on day one of plank and then on day two we're gonna have 868 01:37:42.319 --> 01:37:46.319 an archaeological view that no one really sees. This is the areas that have 869 01:37:46.479 --> 01:37:53.199 not been excavated. This is temple's pyramid buildings, ruins that are in C 870 01:37:53.399 --> 01:37:56.800 two. They haven't been touched. He is going to show us these locations, 871 01:37:57.319 --> 01:38:00.439 which is very very special and unique. I have been one to go 872 01:38:00.600 --> 01:38:06.000 and have somebody show me some of the C two ruins in Yucatan. I 873 01:38:06.119 --> 01:38:09.279 think I might ask ed to see if we can do that. But he 874 01:38:09.479 --> 01:38:14.920 has special permission because he excavated and surveyed, created one of the only maps 875 01:38:15.079 --> 01:38:19.800 of Planki in existence, so that is fantastic. The next day after that 876 01:38:19.920 --> 01:38:23.960 we go to bottom Pack and a few other sites. This is a short 877 01:38:24.119 --> 01:38:27.439 seven day tour, but you don't want to miss it. We have a 878 01:38:27.560 --> 01:38:30.880 few spaces left, and when I say a few, I think we're at 879 01:38:30.920 --> 01:38:33.239 twenty two. I think we'll go to twenty five. So if you want 880 01:38:33.279 --> 01:38:39.720 to join us, it's November tenth through the seventeenth, twenty twenty three. 881 01:38:39.920 --> 01:38:44.920 For more information, go to earth Ancients dot com forward slash Tours. You'll 882 01:38:44.920 --> 01:38:49.159 see the banner, click on it. Get your reservation in as soon as 883 01:38:49.199 --> 01:38:54.880 possible, get your deposit in and join us. That is tour number one. 884 01:38:55.000 --> 01:38:59.800 Now the world class tour is coming up. We announced it. That 885 01:39:00.079 --> 01:39:04.520 is our Grand Egyptian Tour number five. That's April twenty eight through May ninth, 886 01:39:05.359 --> 01:39:12.720 twenty twenty four. This is a classic tour and we're about half full. 887 01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:18.279 This is a chance to see the great Ruins the Pyramids as a private 888 01:39:18.560 --> 01:39:24.039 tour. In other words, we go there without the general public. We're 889 01:39:24.119 --> 01:39:28.199 in a private, comfortable, air conditioned bus and it is a great, 890 01:39:28.319 --> 01:39:31.319 great tour. For more information go to Earth Ancients dot com, forward slash 891 01:39:31.399 --> 01:39:36.279 tours t o u r S. Get your deposit in like now. Because 892 01:39:36.359 --> 01:39:42.239 we're growing, I don't take more than a bus of people and that's maxine 893 01:39:42.279 --> 01:39:45.840 out at about forty people. So we're at twenty five or twenty six, 894 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:49.920 I can't remember, but we're growing. That's a wonderful tour. If you've 895 01:39:49.960 --> 01:39:53.359 ever wanted to come with us, consider it and I'll tell you why. 896 01:39:54.039 --> 01:39:57.600 It's half the price that you pay for a general tour of this kind. 897 01:39:58.119 --> 01:40:03.000 Twelve days of complete, all your accommodations are covered. It is wonderful, 898 01:40:03.279 --> 01:40:09.000 it is a pleasure. It's a vip or as Muhammad and I like to 899 01:40:09.119 --> 01:40:13.279 say, it is a diplomat tour because you're being taken care of like a 900 01:40:13.439 --> 01:40:17.119 diplomat from your city, state, country, world that you come from. 901 01:40:17.199 --> 01:40:23.960 So come out and join us, all right now, The final tour for 902 01:40:24.159 --> 01:40:30.479 twenty twenty four is Turkey. We are now taking reservations for a first time 903 01:40:30.560 --> 01:40:34.239 ever Turkey tour. That means School Backley, Teppi, Carahan, Teppi, 904 01:40:35.159 --> 01:40:41.760 Darren Curu and many many, many other sights to see in this world class 905 01:40:41.800 --> 01:40:45.039 tour. If you would like to join us, and we're already over halfway 906 01:40:45.119 --> 01:40:49.079 full, I don't have the temporary out yet, it's about to be the 907 01:40:49.520 --> 01:40:54.000 release, but send me an email, Cliff, I want to join you, 908 01:40:54.199 --> 01:40:58.359 Send me more information. Send it to Earth Ancients, the number four, 909 01:40:58.439 --> 01:41:02.199 the letter you at GM Earth Agents for you at gmail dot com. 910 01:41:02.760 --> 01:41:06.520 I'll get you on the list. I'll send you the itinerary and more information. 911 01:41:06.720 --> 01:41:13.119 This is a world class, fascinating tour led by Mohammad Embrium and a 912 01:41:13.199 --> 01:41:17.159 number of different scientists and archaeologists throughout the tour, and it's gonna be a 913 01:41:17.560 --> 01:41:23.680 fascinating I've not been to these parts before and so come out and join us 914 01:41:23.920 --> 01:41:29.159 and check it out. We love doing tours and I'll have to mention this 915 01:41:29.279 --> 01:41:34.720 also, we do them at fifty percent or more of the general costs that 916 01:41:34.920 --> 01:41:40.640 most tour companies charge, so that should be enough for you to consider a 917 01:41:40.800 --> 01:41:45.359 vacation with us. And we have a great time, So come out and 918 01:41:45.479 --> 01:41:48.960 join us. All right, that's it for this program. I want to 919 01:41:49.000 --> 01:41:55.039 thank my guest today, Raphael Eisman, coming to us from Chile, South 920 01:41:55.119 --> 01:42:00.800 America. As always, the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster and everyone 921 01:42:00.840 --> 01:42:04.680 who makes makes this thing happen. Thank you so much, and you guys 922 01:42:04.840 --> 01:42:08.840 rock all right, take care of me well and we will talk to you 923 01:42:09.000 --> 01:42:09.479 next time.