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You're listening to KFI AM six forty
on demand KFI AM six forty. You

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have Doctor Wendy Walsh with you.
This is the Doctor Wendy Wealsh Show.

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If you're new to my show,
I have a PhD in clinical psychology.

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I'm a psychology professor, but I've
written three books on relationships because I'm obsessed

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with the science of love. I
want you to sit back. For the

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next two hours, we are going
to talk about things like the psychological benefits

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of your online community. Maybe you
are having friends online and if that's good

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for you or not. The Golden
Bachelorette start to get a little caddy.

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I would be remiss. Also if
I did not talk about Jada and Will

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Smith's marriage, and also if you're
in the dating market, how to find

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love without having a hook up.
There's a way. I want to say

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hello to everybody. Mark Ronno,
we got you in the newsroom. Glad

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to be back. Good to see
you back. Rowell, you're on the

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board. You're going to be watching
the timer for me because I go off.

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You know how I do right?
And producer Ka La, how are

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you one for Doctor Lindy. I
saw you this week at lunch and it

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was so nice, I know.
So here's what happened. I wanted to

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talk about online communities because I had
an experience with my own online community today

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and before I or this week.
But before talking about it, I just

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want to say that, you know, human beings have evolved to need networks,

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We need tribes, we need a
feeling of belonging. And one of

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the best things about the Internet for
many people is that you can create a

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community with people who have shared interests
and you have a bond based on this

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interest, right, And so that's
good and bad because we do know that

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there are people who bond over negative
things and that's not a good thing,

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but also some people bond over positive
So during COVID, when everybody was on

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social media a lot, I decided
to start a little Patreon community. It's

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a website where you can, you
know, just pay a small token fee

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every month and get to come on
live streams and zooms but like with your

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face, like cameras open, like
everybody chatting, like one of the school

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classes I teach, And mostly it's
about the science of love. And what's

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interesting is, uh, the ones
that not only some of the early adopters,

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but the ones that stayed for a
very long time tended to be well,

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you couldn't classify them. You couldn't
classify them by age, gender,

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sexual orientation, or even zip code
or country because they're from all over the

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world. But the thing we share
in common is this desire to be better

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relationship partners, to have better connections
with everybody, the people we work with,

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our children, et cetera. So
every week I kind of propose a

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topic and that's where we start off. It's like a book group without a

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book, although we're actually reading a
book now, and so we just sort

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of weigh in on. I give
my opinion on the topic, then other

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people give their opinion. Every once
in a while, people will talk about

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what they're going through personally, so
they have sort of a brain trust of

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you know, advisors, you know, people who are just supportive and have

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compassion and just want to give like, you know, life advice from their

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own experience, so to speak.
So here's what happened this week. We

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have never I've never ever ever met
anybody from my Patreon community live in the

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real world. Now, a few
weeks ago, or maybe it was last

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week, Kayla, we were talking
about how strange it feels when you meet

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a KFI listener for the first time, because if they've been listening to me

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for years, they feel like they
know me so well, but yet my

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eyes are taking in a complete stranger, so it's very disjointed. It sometimes

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feels uncomfortable because there's this instant familiarity
and these people are lovely, You're all

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wonderful. I love k If I
listen, I want to be clear,

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but if it's just something happens in
my brain because I'm like, like,

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this is like strange. I want
to connect with this person, but they

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feel like they're so close to me, but I haven't earned it, or

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have I I don't know. But
what's different about this group is we've had

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cameras on for almost two years now. What precipitated us getting together for a

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luncheon that Kayla attended as well because
they all wanted to meet producer Kayla they

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hear her voice on the phone on
the radio from time to time. Is

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two of our people in our group
flew from Australia. They had other reasons

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to be in America, but they
made a special stop to La so they

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could meet the group. Some people
drove hours and hours to be here.

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A lot were Cafe listeners from Orange
County and different places, and it was

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just for me. They weren't strangers. They really were not strangers, because

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we've had cameras on for two years
and there was sort of the only new

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discovery I think was that they all
learned I was tall. They kept mentioning

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that I was tall, because when
you're doing zooms, everyone's sitting down and

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you really can't tell. So except
for height, there was no new news

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about anybody, I think. So
I actually wanted to have one of our

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Patreon and KFI listeners come on and
talk about what the experience was like for

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her. So do we have Elizabeth
there on the phone. Hi, Elizabeth,

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Hello, how are you good?
So before we talk about the luncheon

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and what that experience was like for
you, yes, tell me about you

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know, how you came to find
the Patreon group, like you've been a

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long time CAFI listener, right right, longtime KFI listener and of course listen

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to your show quite a bit,
and then of course COVID comes right and

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usually I'm a sales rep on the
road in my car all the time.

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But then I was kind of stuck
at home, and so what precipitated it

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was I was kind of looking to
get back in the dating game, and

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of course, you know, you
were talking about your Patreon group and talking

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about the science of love, and
it all just sounded like some thing that

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I would be interested in, and
I had lots of time, you know,

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to do this sort of thing.
So yeah, so I tuned in

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and the rest is history. But
it was and isn't during COVID. Is

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it fair to say that this online
community, even though you never met anybody

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in the real world, it felt
like friends. It totally felt like friends.

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Everybody was so kind and so interesting, and like you said, everybody

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was from all over the world,
Canada, Australia, we had some people

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in Texas, New York. I
was probably one of the closest you know,

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listeners, But yeah, it felt
very familiar, and yeah, it

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was so exciting to meet everybody in
person, but like you said, not

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too many surprises. I thought you
were tall also, But yeah, it

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just was wonderful because it really helped
me in the last two years Number one

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get through COVID, Number two sort
of give me ideas getting back in the

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dating scene and just you know,
all the great interesting things that we discussed.

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I mean, it was it was. So I did some reading today

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on online communities and which ones are
more psychologically successful to people. So can

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I ask you a few questions to
see if our group sort of conforms with

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some of these things. So the
first question is does your online community have

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a tribe factor, like a feeling
of belonging. Yes, yes, yes,

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And how has that showed up?
Yeah? And even though we're from

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such different backgrounds, everybody was so
supportive of one another. You know,

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we've got a lot of different personalities
and backgrounds and things like that, but

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the core group that continually showed up. Everybody was so supportive. And here's

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another question. Our members do they
care about each other enough that they help

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each other out? And I'm thinking
about the member who had a loss this

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year. Yes, yes, I
was going to agree with that completely.

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I think that we helped her a
lot. We got together and got her,

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you know something after her mother passed, and you know, we all

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felt very because we all have mothers
and they're you know, everybody's sort of

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at that age range where we're going
to be going through the same thing.

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So yeah, I think we kind
of give each other emotional support for sure.

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And finally, let me ask this
question. Does your online community feel

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like a safe place, a zone
where you can be nurtured and grow?

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Yes, definitely, definitely, because
there's no judgment. Everybody just listens,

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they give advice if they have it
that no one you know is negative.

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It's very positive. And I do
want to add like, since I'm a

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teacher, I'm used to dealing with
someone who talks too much or what doesn't

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put up their hand. So even
I assume I'm a pretty good moderator,

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an't I. Oh, you're very
good moderator, and you have your work

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cut out for you, because there
are some people that talk a lot more

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than others and they dominate the group. But I try to go around the

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horn and make sure everybody gets a
chance, even the shy ones. Well,

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Elizabeth, it was a pleasure to
meet you in person, and thank

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you for bringing all those cookies to
lunch. Oh you are very welcome,

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and I hope we get to do
it again soon. Exactly. I think

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we're all friends now. Thanks for
calling in. Okay, when we come

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back, I'm going to keep up
with me following the Golden Bachelorette because it

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does not match human mating strategy.
It literally goes against all relationships science.

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I'm going to talk about the Golden
Bachelorette who left the show this week.

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And also just a reminder, as
you're following all this fun stuff about the

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science of love, remember that here
at KFI we are following the Israeli War

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closely, and we've got Mark Runner
in the newsroom. If you missed it,

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Steve Gregory did an amazing special called
Israel War. So stay close to

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us because we're going to continue to
keep you informed even as we talk about

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the things that are pressing in our
own lives. You're listening to KFI AM

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six forty on demand. I am
six forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh

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with you. This is the Doctor
Wendy Walls Show. Are you following the

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Golden Bachelorette? I am because I
just can't drive fast past a car wreck.

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It is so hard to watch,
but I can't not look at it.

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Oh, just in case you want
to know, it's a guy named

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Gary from the Midwest who's a widower
and he's getting to have these started with

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twenty two women fawn over him and
behave like silly schoolgirls, even though they

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are smart, wise accomplished, grown
women who you know, probably would never

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behave this way unless the producers told
them to. So we're now down to

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week three, twelve women left.
I just want to point out that I'm

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still grossed out by the kissing.
You know what I said to Julio today,

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like, we watched it again today. He put it on for me

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while I was prepping the show,
and I said, it's not that I

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don't want to see people in their
sixties and seventies kissing. That's an act

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of ageism. I've got to get
used to it. Okay. What I

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don't like to see is the same
man kissing a number of women in the

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same episode. You know what,
I'm a little germ christ, That's all

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it is. I'm like, would
I want to swap spit with somebody that

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had just swapped spit with the girl
down the hall. No, And that's

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what looks kind of gross to me. Well, the producers are doing their

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job right and making it watchable.
This week, the cattiness starts. It

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starts with a woman named Kathy who
has problems with a seventy year old woman

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named Teresa. She says Teresa wears
her clothes too tight, and that Teresa

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is revealing too much about her dates
with Gary and this is bothering Kathy.

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The girls had a little, you
know, a little head to head chat,

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and then of course Teresa ran out
of the room crying, and the

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other one's consult I swear it was
high school. She might as well have

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gone into the girl's bathroom. And
the girls came around, and then Gary

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had to meet both the girls and
calm them down, and it was like

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he was talking to three year olds. Well, if you know she really

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didn't mean it, then I think
it's okay to still be her friend.

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I was just like, really,
is this where we are? First of

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all, I'm gonna say again,
women of a certain age have a wide

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range of careers. Where the bankers, Where are the CEOs? Where are

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the doctors? Where are the lawyers? Where are the jet pilots? Oh,

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they're at work. So they couldn't
take two months off their life to

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go on a show like The Golden
Bachelor. Okay, so this week,

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what they did they have to go
through some kind of stunt. They did

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a talent show, cringeworthy as you
can imagine women in their sixties and seventies

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performing for male so hopefully he would
choose them for the one on one date.

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It was heartbreaking because it was a
comedy show. Well one of them

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did do comedy and she was actually
pretty funny. Another one did a very

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sexy dirty dance that just again it's
like ladies, it does. It's not

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a good look. Not a good
look. Okay, you can call me

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agism, but I'm of that agent. I wouldn't do it. Didn't look

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right. There was bad singing and
karate karate. One decided to teach sex

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ed because she's a sex ed middle
school teacher, so it was a little

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body. One did a whole bunch
of push ups. Basically, this talent

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show, I think, exploited these
smart, wise, wonderful women and made

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them look crazy and insane. So
of course there's one the camera catches all

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the time who's literally disgusted. She
doesn't even her thought bubble and her voice

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over top of her shots her saying
I don't even want to do this,

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and this doesn't seem right and this
is not for me, and I don't

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like to perform, et cetera.
So she finally gets up and basically reads

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a nice poem about her own performance
anxiety. Therefore, because she doesn't look

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crazy, she wins the one on
one date. Okayla, you know who

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she is. She's the sixty year
old who actually looks the youngest and prettiest

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of them all. You say that
she was gonna win last week, she's

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going to win mark where she's gonna
win her I still feel it. And

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here's how they're going to do it. I don't know. I think like

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a producer. So her name is
Joan Vassos. Remember that she's a school

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administrator, a mother of four,
she has two grandchildren. She's sixty years

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old. Gary's seventy two, I
think. And on Thursday's episode they had

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a one on one date and can
you hear me? Okay, because my

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mic is cutting in and out to
me. It's not to you, okay,

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must be just me and my head
side anyway, So they had a

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nice date, but then she gets
a text from her adult daughter, who

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apparently gave birth a few weeks before
the show and was having some postpartum issues

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and really needed her mom. So
she decides to leave the show. So

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the oh Gary cries. Okay,
but there's a lot of tears going on.

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If you just met somebody and had
one date, do you cry with

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tears going down your face because they
left the show? I don't know.

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You think no it was Will Smith? Maybe yeah, So she wrote on

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her Instagram it's a privilege to be
a mom to four amazing kids and a

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grandmother to two beautiful grandchildren. But
once a mom, always a mom,

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and sometimes the timing doesn't work out
when finding love. Then he had a

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second one on one date with a
woman named Ellen. They had a glam

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squad totally fix her up. She's
one of the looks a little bit older

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than some of the others, but
she looked gorgeous. They went for a

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limo, right, First of all, who rides and stretch limos anymore?

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Are these guys in the eighties,
these producers, Maybe they think for their

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age they remember stretch limos as a
thing, but they're not even in fashion

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anymore. And then they did the
hot air balloon ride, which so you

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know the Bachelor does that all the
time. Uh, here's my theory,

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Joan, who I believe is gonna
win it? The one who left the

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show and went home amidst all the
tears, is going to come back.

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By the end of this season.
We are going to see her say,

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well, I got everything in order
at home. My daughter's doing well now

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I got her help. And it's
right when Gary's down to two women and

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Joan's gonna show up as that ringer. That is a good plot that I

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think that's what's gonna happen, I
really do. I also want to say

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something else about those fantasy suites that
I'm terrified about. So at the end,

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if you've never followed The Bachelor,
when it gets down to just a

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few, I don't even know how
many one, two, three, or

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four they go in an overnight together
in a fantasy suite, and when they're

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young and hot, it is expected
I think that they have sex. Well,

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I'm it's cringe worthy to me to
think that he's going to go and

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three nights in a row, have
three nights with different women. And there

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are all kinds of physiological things that
happened when you're older. You don't just

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jump in the sack. There's I
mean, maybe he's got viagra, but

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maybe they have vaginal atrophy, maybe
they've got pain. Maybe it's not gonna

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Yeah, there's all Kayla, don't
look so shocked. There's stuff that happens

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scary when you get older. So
jumping in. So, he apparently told

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us Weekly Magazine, because you know, the show's already taped in the can,

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that all he wanted to do is
be supportive of all the women.

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And what he said about the fantasy
suite dates is that they are more emotional

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connections than physical ones. He said, I was happy how it turned out.

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Really just being able to have a
conversation off camera was critically important.

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Right, So anyway, I'm going
to continue to watch it for you so

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that maybe you don't have to.
I don't know. It just breaks my

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heart to see women of a certain
age being treated I don't know, so

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disparagingly and being made fun of and
exploited. It's not working for me.

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And if they think that their audience
are women of that age, we're not

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liking it. Okay, we're just
not liking it. All right. When

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we come back, I have a
special guest, a former Real housewife of

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New York who's going to talk to
us about mental health. You are listening

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to the doctor Wendy Walls Show on
k I AM six forty. We're live

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everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're
listening to KFI AM six forty on demand

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AFI AM six forty. You have
doctor Wendy Walsh with you. This is

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the Doctor Wendy Walls Show. I
am such a proponent of therapy. I

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myself am the recipient of on and
off more than eighteen years of therapy,

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and I credit it to helping me
feel calm, help me steer my ship

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in storms, help me have better
relationships with everybody. I am very pleased

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to tell you that we are at
a time in our evolution, in our

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history where we are all starting to
talk about mental health. It is becoming

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destigmatized very quickly, and we're reaching
out to more and more people so that

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they will get the help they need. One of those people is Byshon Shaw.

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She's a former Real Housewife of New
York you might remember and now,

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and she's also a transformational speaker.
She really cares about people's mental health.

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Welcome, Bshonshaw, how are you
hello? I love that introduction. Hello,

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Hello, Hello. I want to
hear about your new app. And

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before we go any further, I
first, let's start by talking about how

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you came to the place of being
a mental wellness coach. Yeah, my

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journey really changed about fourteen fifteen years
ago. Doctors gave me three months to

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live, so I can you believe
it? I mean, I was in

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New York City, I was owning
restaurants, I was an actress, a

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model, and I had horrible back
pains. Horrible, horrible, horrible back

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pains. I couldn't figure out what
was wrong. So what was your diagnosis?

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I know exactly. Chiropractors, wellness
doctors, clinics, and someone said

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to take an MRI. And that's
when I did. I took an MRI

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and I remember the day so clearly. March twenty six, two thousand and

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nine. A doctor told me to
sit down. He said, sit down,

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mishaw. Because I thought I was
just going to the doctor and getting

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my results. It was a slip
disc or something. I didn't think that

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I had to sit down, And
I remember it so clearly. He looked

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in my eyes and he said,
it's more than a back problem. You've

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been diagnosed with terminal breast cancer.
Wow, and your only symptom at that

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point was back pain. That's fair. Wow, So how did you overcome

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this? You know, I always
say, and this is how this app

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started. I did everything, but
I changed my diet, I changed my

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mindset, I changed the way I
thought about life, and I did the

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work. I say doing the work
is personal development, self improvement, motivation

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and important. Literally, I started
doing affirmations, reading positive things, eating

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healthy, exercising and manifesting what I
wanted. You know, I'm a professor

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of health psychology. And while you
would think it would be a class about

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diet and exercise and prevention, it's
all about staying out of toxic relationships,

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surrounding yourself by positive people, making
sure you have positive thoughts. Because we

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know the mind and the body talk, they talk on a regular basis.

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So out of this, you don't
call yourself a survivor. You call yourself

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a thriver. Out of this thriving
you have now developed an app. Now

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the app is in beta, developed
with two therapists, licensed therapists, and

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it's called like literally the letters you
letter you letter are letter A, You

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are a warrior app. Tell me
about the app. You know, when

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when I was getting treatment about fourteen
one or fifteen years ago, there was

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no safe space. Everyone was sort
of negative bullying support groups. It just

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was not safe to have a place
where you can get support. So I

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said fourteen fifteen years ago, I'm
going to build one, and now I

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did. I built this app because
people need a place to vent, to

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share, to get support, to
get motivation and inspiration. That's why I'm

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giving the app free to college students
and high school students because they need it.

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And how does the app work.
It's not online therapy. It's really

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a group of community, a community. Right. We were just talking about

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online communities earlier. I don't know
if you were listening to the show,

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but my Patreon community met for lunch
after two years this week and to see

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each other in real life. But
we already were friends, we already had

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support and it was wonderful to see. And let me tell you, doctor,

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what people don't understand is community is
the foundation, because as you know

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in psychology and therapy that people fill
alone when they commit suicide, people fill

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alone when they go through depression and
stress and anxiety. But no, I'm

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just like you. We all had
this issues. So we have a motivational

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space too then to share to get
motivation We have the Warrior Groups and the

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Warrior Wall. We have different groups
like depression groups, stress anxiety, college

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blues, substance abuse. We have
all of these things to help you and

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we'll have the app have a way
to intervene if they do feel that somebody

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could be suicidal. So how to
do we do? Oh? Sorry,

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yeah, we do so right away. We have an alarm system that we

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contact nine to one one and we
have therapist on call. Yep, okay,

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so your app is in beta.
Now when can people get it?

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They can get it this Wednesday.
Boom coming out now, how exciting at

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the app store, the app store
or the doople play store. And it's

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you. The letter you, the
letter R, the letter A Warrior,

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W A R R io R,
It's all together. You are a Warrior.

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I love it. Thank you so
much for being with us. I'm

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sorry with the tight time constraints of
radio that I have to go Bshawan Shaw.

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Thank you for doing the good work
that you're doing and I'm so glad

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that you are well. Thanks for
being with us. And if you guys

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want to download on Wednesday, you
are a Warrior app. That's the app

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to gap. Thanks for being thank
you so much. Take care and when

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we come back, Okay, we're
going to get into it. Jada and

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Will was it a fake marriage?
Let me explain. You're listening to the

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Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM
six forty. We Live Everywhere on the

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iHeartRadio app. You're listening to KFI
AM six forty on demand KFI AM six

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00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:44.720
forty. You have doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. You know, I have

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a very open mind. I believe
there are many ways to be a human

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being. I believe that we are
wired to bond. And there are people

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that you know, may go through
life and never find a romantic love partner,

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but I bet they have somebody who's
their secure base, the person they

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could call if they're in the hospital
or even needed or ride to the airport,

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the person who they can depend on. We're not meant to be alone,

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We're meant to be with somebody else. Now, remember I say this

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a lot. When Til Death Do
Us part was invented, death was pretty

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imminent, and so people are trying
to find all kinds of ways to have

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the connections they need, but also
deal with sometimes the boredom of long term

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monogamy. You know, even the
most monogamous of humans, because of our

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very long life expectancies that didn't happen
a while ago, may see themselves having

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one or two or even three long
stints of monogamy with some mate selection in

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between. Other people have opened up
their marriages. Some people are living undivorced,

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meaning that they're living together but they're
not really together, or they're living

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apart but their stay married. They
just want the two houses. They are

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all kinds of ways that people are
trying to manage. In fact, there's

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a whole movement for conscious non monogamy. Now you've also heard me say that

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that kind of talk tends to benefit
men more than women because fewer women are

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interested in conscious non monogamy. Okay, it's sort of. It sexually tends

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to benefit men. The news this
week big relationship news that actors Will Smith

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and Jada Pinkett Smith have been living
somewhat of a sham life for seven years.

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Apparently, Jada has revealed the truth
about her relationship in her upcoming book,

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a memoir called Worthy. You should
know The book comes out on Tuesday.

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She's heavily on book tour and when
somebody who's a celebrity puts out a

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book. They always want to put
out something titillating so that people run to

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buy the book. Well, apparently, Jada says that she was absolutely shocked

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that Will called her his wife at
the Oscars. Remember at the Oscars when

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he yelled out at comedian Chris Rock, who was hosting it and who had

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made a joke about Jada. He
said, take my wife's name out of

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your mouth. He said it over
and over, take my wife's name out

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of your mouth. And Jada now
says that she was shocked that he referred

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to her as his wife. In
fact, she revealed that they're not living

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together as a couple and have not
been for seven years at least. This

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is what she told Hotacopti on The
Today Show this week. So from the

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year twenty sixteen, which is seven
years ago, yes, y'all have been

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a part. Yeah, but in
public, the couple, who married in

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nineteen ninety seven, denied the gossip
about their marriage. This interview on Bravo's

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Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen
was taped a year after Will and Jada

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separated. So, how long have
you guys been together twenty three years.

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Wow, that's amazing. How do
you keep it hot? How do I

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00:29:25.359 --> 00:29:33.759
keep it hot? You know?
Maybe I don't know. Yeah, she

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laughed that one off because she didn't
not have anything to say. Okay,

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so we're going to explore what's happening
here. I just want to tell you

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that my first personal reaction is twofold
one is okay, another celebrity trying to

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00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.039
sell books, So she's going to
come up with something to lating and maybe

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00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:59.200
it's true. My second is,
I'm really impressed that it was never discovered

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00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:03.319
by the press, because the press
seems to find out everything. And why

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did people not know that they were
literally living in two different homes because publicly

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00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:11.119
they were socializing as a couple.
They would go to the Red Carpets,

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00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.119
the premieres with their kids as a
family, and they did a lot of

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00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:18.039
things publicly, so it kind of
never came up. So those are the

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first two things that came across,
is like, you know, yeah,

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she's trying to sell a book,
here we go. And number two,

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Wow, it's interesting that they managed
to keep that a secret all those years.

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But then I had another highly personal
visceral reaction because let me tell you

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00:30:34.799 --> 00:30:41.359
something about me. I'm a truth
teller to a fault. Nobody can gossip

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00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:47.119
about me because I've told you first, or I've told somebody first. I

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00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:52.480
am an open book, even with
my failings, even when I'm having trouble

401
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.480
making a decision about what way to
go in life, even when I feel

402
00:30:56.599 --> 00:31:03.200
shame about something I may have done, even when I've been a victim of

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00:31:03.240 --> 00:31:04.599
something. You all know, if
you've been listening to me for all these

404
00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:10.359
years, I'm a survivor of domestic
violence. You know that I have suffered

405
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:15.519
financial abuse. You know that I've
had a string of bad relationships in my

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00:31:15.640 --> 00:31:19.039
past, and I'm not a victim. I chose them right. I chose

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00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:26.559
them because I learned unconsciously I was
reliving some of my early childhood trauma,

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and it was only through years of
therapy. But along the way, I

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wrote books about my journey. I
wrote many books where I was pulling the

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science of relationships but giving examples from
my own life. Because what did they

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say in Jonathan Livingston seaghos we teach
best what we most need to learn.

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So that is who I am,
and that's why I'm prefacing what I'm about

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to say with that. The one
thing I don't like our secrets. I

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have such a hard time when I
discover a lie that anyone is told me.

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I have such a hard time ever
trusting them again because I think,

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if they can lie about that,
what else are they lying about? And

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then I think, well, should
I go out and get her book and

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get the full story? But then
I'm like, I don't know what to

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believe in that book. She just
told me she lied to me for seven

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years, so now I'm supposed to
believe everything she says in the book.

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00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:29.680
Right, Hey, this is personal
opinion. This is just personal opinion.

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This is not a opinion on their
relationship or their choice to separate and still

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remain public parents for their kids and
all that stuff. People have all kinds

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of ways that they figure out how
to get their emotional needs met, how

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to get their physical needs met,
and sometimes how to get their financial needs

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met. I do want to say, apparently they did not have a prenuptial

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so and then we can start to
look at things as attachment style. Again,

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I can't diagnose these people. I've
never met them. I don't have

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a license. But there are people
out there who have an anxious attachment style,

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who want a divorce and can't they
stay like a klingon. Usually they

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00:33:12.839 --> 00:33:19.039
stay connected through anger and the courts
right they use their anxious attachment. So

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there's all kinds of reasons why this
could be happening. But for me,

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it does not sit well that I'm
supposed to now buy a book, read

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00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.759
it and believe it because you've just
told me you've lied to me for seven

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years. That's very hard for me. When we come back, I have

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a guest who thinks a little bit
differently from me, really supports this couple

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00:33:39.720 --> 00:33:44.559
in many ways. She's a friend
of mine, psychotherapist doctor Tammy Nelson,

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author of the book The New Monogamy. Let's hear her take on this.

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When we come back. You are
listening to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on

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00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:57.240
KFI AM six forty. We're live
everywhere on the iHeartRadio app KFI AM six

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00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:58.599
forty on demand