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Wade Killer Pro Wrestling podcast five years ago. This week, Zach Hadarn joined
me on the flagship and we talked about Summer Slim at Eventful Summer Slim.
The followed edition of Raw that covered all the major happenings at Summer Slim,
including Roman Rains as Champion, Roman Rains versus Finn Balor for the Universal title,
the Latest Shield reunion, the Stephanie McMann Ronder, Browsy Angle, trip
Hius promo for Undertaker, and much more, including live callers, emails,
and on site correspondence. This live streamed originally on August twenty first, twenty
eighteen, and it is today's wad Keller Pro Wrestling Podcast five years ago flake
Ship Flashback for Saturday, August nineteen, twenty twenty three. Here we go,
so Zach, how did WWW do with Roman Rains the day after his
long awaited Universal title win in front of a hostile crowd in Brooklyn, New
York? How'd you grade all three hours and ten minutes of narrative framing what
this means to WWW and Roman Rains? You know, I thought I thought
they did a really good job. I thought they did a good job even
before the ending. I thought positioning Rains as a fighting champion was the way
to go. It ran counter to everything that brock Lesner was about, and
everything about that brock Lesner store Rains wasn't tonight, which I think was a
was a good place to at least start. You know, he's not going
to get universally cheered in that market, or and maybe not in any market,
but I think from a storyline perspective, presenting them in that way and
just letting him wrestle a match and have a good match was was the way
to go. In addition to that, they they tacked on loads and loads
of bells and whistles. I mean giving the giving the title opportunity to Finn
Balor was was smart. And then you know the Shield at the end,
just they really pulled out all the tricks to make it work. And I
think I think we can debate the merits of whether those tricks should or shouldn't
be necessary in getting a top guy over. But uh, for looking at
it what it was and wasn't entertaining and did the crowd like it? I
thought it was really good and certainly made for a newsworthy show. What's your
takes? We'll talk a lot about this as a show progresses with our callers
and emails and outside correspondent. What about the show closing angle the Shield uniting
against Braun. It's a kind of gutsy move to have the very popular Braun
go up against a three on one attack with a crowd predisposed to love Dean
love Seth not love Roman rains and take away the money in the bank.
Cashion that the fans were eager drooling. They were, they wanted to see
it. And you have rains under circumstances which are contractually fair of braun Stroman
wait for rains to stand up and let's fight, and Seth and Dean come
out and spoil it. That's kind of what Tully and Arne would do to
save Rick Claire from a bad situation. I thought the crowd booed it for
the most part, but also we're torn because they like Seth, they like
Dean, they liked the shield, and so I wasn't quite sure what to
make of it. I absolutely I'm sure if Man knew that the fan wouldn't
know what to make of it, Like I'm not. I don't think that
was a surprise to him that there would be a mixed response. It had
to be deliberate. So your take on that choice and the execution up there,
Yeah, I think I think Vince wanted to get out of tonight with
Roman still as the champion, knowing the reaction that he was going to get
in doing so, and I really think he pulled off all the stops,
uh know, if and or butts in order to get that done. And
as far as bringing out the Shield at the very end, I like you
said, I think he wanted the reaction to be confusion, but I also
think he wanted the reaction of the audience to be whoa, we're seeing something
really cool. This was totally unexpected. The shields back together. That's awesome.
And you know, some of the crowd is gonna love it instead of
the cashing, and other people are gonna want the cashing. But in the
end, no matter what, you got a pretty like you know, once
in a blue moon type ending to the show, and I think that to
him overshadows any of the activity that might come along with it this week and
in the next. More so than that too, I think you know,
it lines up some good conversation for next week. You know what what is
to be made of the shield next week? Are the on Roman side?
Is it a one time thing? So I think they can build storylines off
of the angle tonight too. Yeah. I think a tweet sums up a
lot of people's feelings. Jim O'Sullivan on Twitter said, I effing hate Roman
reigns, but that was fffing cool. Yeah, So Vince, I think
has to see that and go, yep, all right, mission accomplished.
Let's move on to SmackDown. You know, absolutely all right, let's let's
at the table here. This is the Wade Keller Pro Wrestling post show following
the Monday, August twentieth edition of WWB Monday Night Raw. We're live on
the air a couple of minutes after Raw went off the air, analyzing it,
and we are streaming live at Wade Keller Post show dot com. This
show available in its entirety later on as always on Tuesday mornings than the early
am hour, if not a little before midnight, with the full show,
including our on site correspondent and mail bag. If you've got questions or comments
about this show and you can't call in but you're listening to us live right
now, you can email Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. That's Wade
Kellor Podcast at pwtorch dot com. And we also invites you to get on
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not many have pushed one on their keypad yet, so if you want
to be on the show, be sure to let us know. You gotta
push one on the keypad once you call in, and you'll get in line
in the color standby too. So Zach Heydorn is my guest co host on
today's program. Zach, Welcome back to the program. Day's rap Me Weight
always always enjoyed being here. Good to have your voice on the show.
People who listen to the show, I'm sure checking out your reports every Monday
night alongside mine. On pwtorch dot com. We each offer up our reports
on ross. You can kind of fill in details that Zach might see and
I don't, or vice versa, and also get our our opinions on segments
as the show progresses. Invite you to do that tomorrow night too as I
cover SmackDown Live and you can catch up on our coverage of Summer Slim and
NXT Takeover. Also at pwtorch dot com. Thank you for subscribing to the
wad Keller Pro Wrestling podcast and wad Keller Pro Wrestling post shows. Don't forget
we got a whole lineup of other shows called the pwtorch Daily Casts. It's
free. Just search pwtorch in your podcast staff a different show on a different
topic throughout the week, including shows dedicated to a EW, NXT, MMA,
Ring of Honor, and more. Just search pwtorch in your podcast stapp
or check out links to the latest shows at our main website, pwtorch dot
com. A quick plug last week I was on the Boston podcast previewing NXT
Takeover and SummerSlam as of early Tuesday, the next Steve Auston show, and
we are reviewing NXT Takeover and SummerSlam for about an hour and a half of
in depth analysis with Steve Boston. So that was a great pleasure to just
break down two really good shows this weekend with Steve who also thought they were
really good, and we went over every single I think every single match.
I don't know if we did the kickoff show matches, but every single main
card match from both shows. So check that out. You can find the
Steve Boston shows just about anywhere that you can find this the way Keller progressing
post show. All right, Zach, Let's let's start taking some calls and
find out what our listeners think of this again. Our number is three four
seven two one five eight five five eight three four seven two one five eight
five five eight. It should be on the screen when you log into stream
the show and then push one on your touchdown phone to join us. Let's
go to our first call area code three two three. You are up.
Please state your name of the city you're calling from. Hi waiting, Zach
This is Harry from Las Vegas, Nevada. How you doing, Hey,
Ry, good hear from you. What's what do you think around tonight?
I like the show? I mean I like, I like very much anext
Takeover, I like so I slam, I like Rah. There's some things
you can tweak, but overall I'll give them a passing grade. So what's
your main thing you want to bring up on the call? So? I
had two comments questions on the main handle that closed on close out the show?
Hey, am I the only one who doesn't like how Roman holds onto
the title while walking down to the ring and b how are they going to
work having Braun as a baby space mister money in the bank? Does this
mean that the shield is shield is now a heel faction? Because that's how
I felt it at the end of the show. I mean them going three
on one against Broun. Yeah, I mean, Zach, tell me your
thoughts on I mean, I think Vince was just going for a cool moment
to spark conversation. I don't think it was a heel turn. It wasn't
heel turn for Braun. I mean it was so by the way, I
coach is hilarious. Like coach, it's like he just shows up two minutes
before the show and watches it. And like Don West when t and a
booking no sense, and he would point out things that made no sense on
the air. I love that, Eric Don West I think got fired.
You know, people in charge didn't like that. He was going, well,
that makes no sense. Didn't he do that last week and three weeks
ago did to say that? And then and Mike Tenny's head would explode and
oh, we need someone different on commentary. In this case, though,
it's not that coaches is break is saying things that don't make sense. He's
saying things that break the narrative that wwb's trying very hard to push right at
the desk that he's sitting at. Like and so he was like saying bron
Stroman. He said he was gonna not fight this way, not cash in
this way. I need to do it face to face, not attack Hi
from behind. And coaching graves are like tackling each other to try to offset
what coach said before the other ken Well, what do you saying, coach,
No, No, he's doing exactly what he said. He's waiting for
reins to stand up and face him. But it was a good point from
coach, even though he's not doing his job by making it, which is
the real cool thing for bron to do as a baby face money the bank
holder would be to say, Roman, you gave Braun a chance or Findeller
a chance this week next Monday, I'm cashing in and I'm giving you seven
days noticed I want you fresh. I don't need you beat down after a
fifteen minute match. So that's kind of coaches thinking. It does expose a
little break in in in the logic of WWB try to frame Braun differently than
other money in the bank heels cashing in, But I don't think. But
again, that wasn't the intent. I don't think the intent at all was
for Braun to be heelish. I think that's just coach not quite getting what
he's supposed to say and not say Zach, yeah, your your additional thoughts.
No, I totally agree. I totally agree. I think you know
from the beginning, even last night at Summer Slim, I think WWE has
missed the boat a little bit with the Stroman narrative because what he said and
what he actually did didn't didn't really mirror up with each other. That said,
I don't think it was a heel turn, but I think a direction
they could go with the Shield and Roman Reigns to kind of alleviate you know,
them being heals towards towards towards bron Stroman is you know, they could
just simply be out there saying, hey, you know what, like you
know where the shield, this is our brother. You know Stroman, you
certainly deserve a cash in. We just wanted to be done in the right
way, in a stand up way, and that would kind of counteract the
narrative that they set forth, but it would make sense and why they ran
out tonight and why they made the safe tonight. I think that scenario keeps
rains in the shield baby faces to some heals to others, and same thing
on the slip side with bron Stroman. So I think that could go either
way. I do need to make a quick comment on Roman Reigns carrying the
belt. I references a couple of times in my report. It drives me
crazy. I think that slow walk and him hold it, and I don't
want to be the guy that like you know, hates on people for the
way they carry belts because it's a small thing. But Roman has such a
problem with kind of shedding that his arrogance and his entitlement as he walks to
the ring and as he really does any and the way he walked with that
belt over his shoulder just screams arrogance and entitlement to me. I think if
you picked up the pace a little bit, held the belt, or wore
the belt, I think it would come off as more respectful and fans you
get behind him a little bit, because it just rubs me the wrong way.
As the host of the Artistry of Wrestling, you pay attention to the
details like that the presentation. Bruce Mitch would be yelling at you right now
for bringing up something so irrelevant because Roman Rains is over. But you're right,
all those little things add up. They are absolutely worth discussing when you
try to figure out what is it about Roman that just isn't clicking. And
we do that a lot on the show because he's a top pushed guy on
the number one promotion that we cover here on the Post shows, and it
is deserving of attention. And I thought Rains was really good in that opening
segment he was charming, he was gracious, all those things that you opened
up with Zach and explaining why this was a good presentation for Roman. But
it's worth being careful if you're ww me and Roman rains too complete the effort
to make sure that there aren't little things like that that send some of the
signals that remind people of who they who you used to be. We we
put up a poll on I put up a poll on our Twitter account at
PW Torch. We have a seven hundred and seventeen responses so far, and
I said, if you've been against Roman Reigns's push for any reason in recent
years, are you willing to give him a fresh look post summer slime victory.
I had no idea what the results would be. I mean, yeah,
I really didn't know. So I said the four options I gave were
yes, without reservation, give another, I'll give him a fresh look next
maybe, But reluctantly I thought that might win. I thought that might you
know, be a pretty solid winner. The next one was almost zero chance,
and the next in the fourth and final option was totally absolutely zero chance.
So I just was like kind of having fun. I wanted to not
overdo it, but get a sense of things. It's did you look at
the results? Second? No, I didn't. I didn't see him yet.
Now, so so what do you think with those four options, like,
how do you think that breaks down? What does your gut tell you?
The ball took place during the show, but most of the votes were
before the show closing angle, if that affects anything, Okay, I'm going
to say that most people probably clocked in an option number three almost no chance,
but you never know, and then number two being you know, sure
but reluctantly. When you said the word most you were wrong, because there
isn't the most it is split almost equally four ways. Twenty two percent at
the lowest option was yes, but reluctantly, I'll give him a fresh look.
So that's how hardened people are in their opinions of him. Barely one
out of five said yes, they'll give him a fresh look without reservation,
Twenty six percent said maybe but reluctantly, twenty five per cent since they're almost
zero chance, twenty seven percent totally absolutely zero chance. So twenty six,
twenty five and twenty seven two percent variation on the final three options, you
have forty eight percent saying yes or maybe fifty two percent saying almost zero or
zero. So remarkable, you know, I mean it's just that he to
use the term, but he's polarizing and ye and tonight I don't think was
trying to like everything they did was including heel commentator Corey Grace spending fifteen like
it felt like fifteen straight minutes during the baallor matches going room and what a
great guy for defending the title room and he's just so awesome. I mean,
I couldn't believe he's doing. It's like when the heel commentator is catching
in his heel chips to gosh praise. You know, the mission is to
get reins cheered, but then you have the shield beat up braun Like I
just they're keeping me off balance with what they're doing here. Well, and
yeah, I think those poll results really they they can tell you something about
about kind of the state of rains right now. I think, you know,
tonight was it was a relatively decent nights for him overall. I don't
want to, yeah, take him down for that is because it was in
a lot of ways. But you know, to me, maybe you convert
some of those people who are on the fence from you know, probably not
too reluctantly. Yes, if you clean up some of that stuff, if
you don't push over push him on the commentary team, if you have him
walked to the ring with a sense of purpose instead of a senseiment title.
Man, I mean you can start converting people, but you know, to
have such a good night and then kind of not tie up the loose ends.
It does his good night a little bit of a disservice, And I
think he can make greater strides if they just, you know, like you
say all the time, straighten, straighten, to tie up a little bit,
he'd be better off. Yeah, I think that detail matters. Let's
go back to Harry for a follow up pair. Anything else you want to
add to our conversation. Yeah, just with the title thing with the belt.
When he did it with the Intercontinental title, I was like, oh
my god, he's like looking down at the belt. He doesn't think it's
as big as him, that he deserves the belt that that broadcast, But
now that he has that, I'm looking at it like, damn, he
even might even think he's over. He's more over than the company. That's
the way I looked at it, and that's why I'm like, I was
excited big time when I thought bron was going to cash him, because great,
we're gonna get this a night one of the title reign. Get Roman
out of the way. And then it's like, oh no, the shield.
I was so excited to see the shield. But there was a moment
where I was like, all right, man, hold on to that title
and see I'm proud of it. Not just hang onto it in your back.
It's like it look bad. Harry, a great job with the show.
Guys, appreciate it. Taking my call, Hey, before I hang
up, what is your vote on our Roman reigns poll? Yes? Maybe
almost zero or total zero? Chance to give him a fresh look. Before
I saw him grab the belt like he did, it was three, and
then after it it was four. All right, I have no chance again.
All Right, I appreciate it. Hey, this matters to people.
I appreciate it. Harry, body language, how you present yourself, it
absolutely counts and you can't ignore that. People look at those things and make
judgment on it. Invite you to email the show with feedback or questions or
comments. That email address is Wade Keller Podcast at pewtorch dot com. That's
Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. Also welcome your feedback on Twitter.
You can follow us on Twitter at pw torch and follow me at the Wade
Keller. That's at PW Torch and at the Wade Keller. All right,
let's go to three A six x three six. Please state your name in
the city you're calling from. Oh, Hi, this is Jmario Dates on
the Beach. How are you guys doing tonight? Good? I didn't catch
your first name. I'm sorry. My name is Jamario. Oh cool?
Yep, Jamario from day Tony Beach. What's what? What do you think
of rock Dates? Yep? I can honestly say I was pleasantly surprised,
because, as you guys know, three hours of watching this show could be
quite the slug. But tonight I didn't feel myself until off too much.
Drop the show. But what I wanted to ask you guys, it seems
like maybe he's kind of, like I guess, playing of my emotions in
a way, like like like I give an example, they have Becky like
last night go and attacked Charlotte. You know, yet you know, I
felt like naturally inclined to cheer Becky for you know, beating up on Charlotte
because you know, like I was wanting Becky to win. Then I kind
of go to go to tonight like the ending promo, and I'm like,
you know, like I love stuff rollins, I love I love the shield,
but you know they're attacking Broun somebody else that I love, you know,
So I'm kind of like confused, like like like is there like some
sort of psychology to this or is it just like weird booking or whatnot.
I was trying to just trying to see what you guys thought about that.
So so your emotions went out a rollercroaster in the end. If you're in
the building tonight, what what are you are you you're cheering, You're cheering
for Balor to beat roman Or and then and then when the shield come out,
or you're cheering the just because of the excitement of it. But you're
emotionally torn, Like if you're in the building, how how how do you
remote? Like how would you have reacted in the end? Are you booing
the shield or cheering the ship? And see that s that's that's that's the
part I'm getting that. So it's like it's like, you know, to
split because it's like, you know, like like I love the Shield,
you know, like like I love I love everything about I love the Ambrose,
love love Rolins. Not not see big for a fan of rains.
Uh. If I was in the build, I would have been cheering on
Balor. But like I said, you know, then Bron comes out.
I'm like, I'm I'm all excited for this cash shout and I'm like,
man like it's about to happen like once again. So it's like this is
the second time it's happened at two Nights. But it's like, you know,
they go out in the text strow and I'm just kind of like hmm,
you know, like I don't know how to feel about this. Yeah,
yeah, no, no, because it's like baby faces fighting baby faces.
I agree, zach any any Yeah, I just think, you know,
to answer that, you know, the first question, I think more
so yesterday with Becky that was to me more of a you know, miss
calculation in terms of the booking tonight. I thought it was just a calculated
effort to create a wow moment that you know, would alleviate some booze that
that Rains would get. I think that was the soul focus of tonight,
and to create some confusion, to create a big moment that people people are
talking about, uh, you know, the next day. So I thought
they were similar outcomes but for different, totally different reasons. Tonight, I
thought they got exactly what they tried to get. Whether that's right or wrong
or not, we'll have to see. But I think the backstage right now,
they're high five each other, going well done, very true, very
true, Joemari, Thanks appreciate it. I think you are expressing how a
lot of people felt in Barclay Center tonight and last night. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, ahead, yeah, yeah, One more question, try,
I just I just want to know where did you guys see Ronda Rolsy going
next? I mean, I'm pretty sure it's probably like collect the blist,
but like after blist, Like, like, what do you think is Nick?
Yeah, Zach, what do you think I mean to tonight's set up
Stephanie and and Rod a one on one at Evolution or are they gonna do
four horsewomen and against four horsemen? Like like I don't I mean, I
didn't see any stage if anything tonight that's at the stage for that. Is
it okay? If Roanna faces Stephanie, they got to fill time between now
and then with something else. Is it a Bliss rematch? I mean,
I don't. I don't think the pictures clear. No, I don't think
it is either, and I think all of those elements are in play.
I don't. I don't know if they'll pull the trigger on the four horsewomen
match quite yet, just because they really haven't introduced any other pieces aside from
from Ronda Rowsey with that. But yeah, I see him going potentially to
the to the election Bliss rematch. That makes sense. And she was in
the backstage segment with Stephanie as Stephanie was icing up her arm, so she
could play the role of Stephanie's henchwoman or something moving forward. But you know,
if they want to create kind of that pr type match, having Ronda
and Stephanie go one on one at Evolution is certainly certainly an avenue to explore.
I think they want to be careful to not give away a huge match
like Ronda and Charlotte at that event, but still future Rousey prominently and this
could be a way to do that. Jamar appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely,
thanks for calling. I think so. And by the way, I've
been I've been a vp RE member for over a year nine. I just
want to be the best person ever made. And everybody out there listening go
to VIPP. Thank you, Jamari. I appreciate it, and I hope
you have no one's listening who thinks you've made more important decisions in your life
that are you bet. I mean, I'm all for the hyperbole to help
business and all that, and I appreciate it totally, but I get a
little a little nervous sometimes when people say that, Like someone in the other
room's like, why do you would you just say I'm married to you?
Yes, sir, there's like a dog, you know who just got adopted,
you know, like the shelter and the doctors go small. So in
two thousand twelve, NXT transitioned into the developmental system and ultimately the brand you
see today. On the Torch VIP podcast NXT Eight Years Back, we'll be
taking a weekly look at this page in NXT's early history. Join Kelly Wells
and me Tom Stout from PWT Talks NXT every Saturday as we go eight years
Back to the day to track NXT's rising talents and why they did or didn't
work out exclusively for PW Torch VIP members. All right, yeah, and
uh yeah. So anyway, let's go back to the phone lines and we'll
go next to area code seven one six seven to one six. Thank you
so much for calling. What's your name and where you're calling from? All
right, this is leave from Buffalo. Hey, Lee, thanks for calling
our things in Buffalo. All right, I guess you know it's great.
I don't know why, but I'm sort of thinking your sports teams. I
just sort of thought, yeah, most people would say, yeah, all
right, so yeah, exactly eight and eight, yeah exactly. Uh yeah.
I just wanted to call talk about well, two things. But first
I wanted to talk about Alias. He's he's one of my favorite characters.
But over the past few weeks, excluding I think actually last week, it
just seemed like something I really liked about him, which is, despite him
being a heel, there's like something in his eyes that, like you can
really tell, or at least I perceive, that he really loves what he's
doing, and it kind of translates, you know, through the to the
viewer. Yeah, and I think it was there tonight again, and I
liked seeing it. And you know, despite the fact that it like it
doesn't you know, he's to heal it for whatever reason. That translation works
for me. And I really love his segments. But I just don't know
what they're doing with him long term, you know, like, but you
know, what's the next step for a guy like that. First of all,
I think your assessment is correct. I mean, I know he's a
long time wrestling fan. He was a walk on, so to speak,
not high drafted, not a high high draft pick, and and and given
all kinds of acclaim and perks, he had to work to get to where
he is. And I think he really appreciates that vincec Man likes what he
sees in him. As Zach. I'll throw you first on on where you
think they'll go with Elias. What is his upside because you know in the
ring he's not world class, top shelf, uh, you know, can't
wait to see him few with Gargano and Champ and n XT and tear down
the house. He's more along the lines of the main roster style that miss
or maybe EC three has, where it's more deliberate but it tells stories in
the way vincecc man really appreciates. So there's definitely potential there. How high
is that potential based on what you've seen so far? I think the potential
is pretty high with him. I think he has he you know, more
more so than a lot of people on Ron Rod right now, have has
a genuine, you know, connection with that audience. And I think that
that genuineness about him can take him a really long way. For me each
week, I just want to see him focus that connection in one direction or
the other, like be a heel or be a baby face. I think
he's really towing that line and going back and forth, and so people are
left to wonder, Okay, what is what is this guy doing? What's
what's his story? And you know, he he kind of muddies his own
gimmick with the walk with the liest thing before flipping around and just trolling the
audience of the cities. And I want to see him focus that act,
use the connection that he has with the audience to really drive a story and
to drive his character, drive his mission statement. And he does that,
I think he can get up into that upper mid card, lower main event
level, just like like them Is has done. I don't think he needs
to be a guy that can have five star classics. I think his character,
in his connection with the crowd can can carry him through that much like
it has them Is. He just needs to nail down that focus and nail
down that direction, and once he does, I think he'll be even better
than he is today. I think he's outlasting the fun Dongo type of Adam
Rose type of act where it's like the flavor of the week for events.
He gets excited and then it's sort of in order to move on. I
think there's more there to him, and I think you actually Lee captured something.
There's that intangible that fans pick up on that they either embrace or rebeligance,
depending on what what sense they get from the wrestler. You know,
Adam Cole as finding to Steve Asen about this on the show that drops on
Tuesday this week. Adam Cole looks like he just loves what he's doing.
He wants to be there. He projects cockiness and arrogance and all that when
he's a heel, and he projects by the way, cockiness and arrogance his
baby face, but in a good way. You know you're about to see
the show like Sean Michael's had when when he's a baby face, but he
wants to be there and he loves it, and you can tell and people
pick up on that. And if it looks like you don't want to be
there and you're not having fun, you know, people pick up on that
too. You know, there's wrestlers and you look back and go, God,
why why didn't they make it? And and and there's different reasons for
different people, but sometimes it's because fans and yes, by the way,
the people who live, eat, sleep, breathe wrestling, who are in
it, who have influenced Tripleation doesn't mat among them pick up on that too,
And they don't want to give a big opportunity to somebody who's that's sort
of cool with just showing up and a lot of seems like he's he's not
in that category that he wants to be in. He's enthusiastic about what he's
doing. Absolutely, Yeah, yep, all right, cool, Ali anything
else for us? Yeah, I mean just flipping to the the well audience
connection and your your Twitter poll today and the guy who you know was subject
to that, you know, I fall in the actually the first degree,
which is I've got I've got to give him a fresh look, because honestly,
if he's on top for the next five to ten years, I don't
think I can keep watching this, Like I just it's too frustrating. You
know, if he's on top, it I don't like him, I should
say, you know, I like out of a necessity, I've got it.
Is it like in politics where there's a primary and you're really really for
one of the candidates and they lose, and you put your heart and soul
and thought of all the negative things about the other candidate in your party,
and then the nomination happens, You're like, oh God, I have to
you know, now I've got to figure out a way to like Trump or
like Hillary or you know, I got to figure out a way to like
the governor running in this party that I was just putting all my energy against.
Like, I think there's sort of a feeling of God, if I'm
gonna if he's gonna be here and I'm gonna deal with him, I want
to at least get I want to make sure that I'm giving myself a chance
to like him. And if he is going to be the guy for a
while. Is that kind of capturing what you're saying? Yeah, I mean,
and it's such a terrible I mean, it's a terrible place to be
as far as you know, you know, liking liking this this, you
know this, you know, show this this product. But yeah, exactly.
I just I just can't I mean, I just can't imagine, you
know, turning the TV on five years from now and still having this complete
lack of connection to their basically their main wrestler. I just I can't imagine
doing that. Yeah. Yeah, so did tonight help or hurt? Uh?
You know, helped actually, And once again I'm trying to like actively
actively try to like him. Yeah, I don't know, you know,
long term and it will actually work because there's just still like that, there's
the thing I see in lies his eyes, you know that that like he
loves it. And I can tell the other guy, you know, Rains
is just reciting garbage, you know that he's just spewing out of his mind,
you know, like it's just coming out of his mouth. He doesn't
really care. So I'm just trying to I don't know, like the writing
behind it's like his moves, you know, he's a good actual wrestler.
I enjoy that portion of it, but it's just a lack of connection that
I don't know if he'll ever get that. I'm trying to allow it in.
You know, Yeah, no, I hear you, I feel you.
That's why I like to callin porsch of the show. We get to
hear you know, where where fans are, where they're where they stand,
and and and want wanting to really like what w w E is doing,
and and and coming to grips with things that maybe you want choose to happen,
but it is happening and giving it a chance. And I'm surprised that
option wasn't chosen by more people. But you know, I mean, hey,
if twenty one or twenty two percent are willing to that can help crowd
responses. Lee, Thanks and uh, I hope I hope your bills go
like nine and seven not just eight and eight. Thank you very much.
And I hope I hope the Savers may playoffs. That's always fun. Well,
that's that's shooting a little too far, alright, all right, take
care. Thanks, all right, we're gonna break and we got to get
to our onsite. Correspondent is standing by for us in Brooklyn and we'll find
out what it was like to be in that building tonight. I'm looking forward
to this, so stay tuned everybody, and if you want, by the
way, if you want to be an onsite correspondent, I do want to
throw out here Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot com. We got someone lineup
for tomorrow after SmackDown, but email that email Wade Keller Podcast at pwtorch dot
com and let us know if you can be an onsite correspondent for a future
rat or SmackDown and let us call you after the show to record a segment
talking about what it was like to be in the building. And please put
the date in the city in the subject line. It helps me immensely stay
organized. I got so much coming at me all the time that I need
a little help on your end in terms of trying to sta organize as far
as getting back to you. So if you're going to a Roar SmackDown in
the next few weeks or next few months, let and put that date and
city in the subject line. Thanks for listening to our podcast. Did you
know we also have a website pwtorch dot com daily news updates, editorials,
and my live TV coverage covering Raw, Dynamite and SmackDown, and my live
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bookmark make it a daily stop. Visit us throughout the day every day to
keep up on breaking news and more. That's pwtorch dot com. All right,
we are back and we have our on site correspondent heading home. Are
you en route, Alex from Barclay Center? Yes, i am. I'm
on the way home from the Barclay Center from that electrifying main event. Yeah.
Yeah, Well, well I want to talk about that. Are you
driving a public transportation? Where are you in New York? Where do you
live driving? I'm from New Jersey. Oh cool, okay, and so
yeah, let's let's let's just jump right to it. What was it like
being in the building for that electrifying made eventually being sarcastic or genuine, Let's
let's just let's clear up any ambiguity. Sure, I'm being genuine, obviously.
Vince McMahon now has the fans eating out of the palm of his hand.
Here. He knows how to protect Roman, but the getting there.
The Shield reunion was perfect. It was a perfect end to the night.
Now I got this match. Sorry, you know, I got the sense
Alex as a perfect ending that fans were kind of torn in the last two
minutes there. They love seeing the Shield, so there's that part of them.
Yeah, they're back together. This is so cool and they're like,
oh wait a second, we love Braun. What are they doing to Braun?
Oh the shield power bomba table awesome? I want to see that.
Oh wait it's Braun. No, Like, we wanted to cash in and
the Shield coming out means we won't get the cash in. That sucks,
but we got the shield. Like was it kind of a roller coaster where
fans were just like they saw they were excited but also kind of emotionally pulled
in different directions. Yeah, from you know this sense that around me the
crowd, I think you're you you know, you're correct there that people weren't
sure, you know, hey, should we cheer for the shield? Are
we going to get a cash in? So the crowd was definitely split.
But the power bomb itself there, I think really popped the crowd and it
was you know, after that, obviously you knew there would be no cash
in, you know, but overall the crowd was mixed, but both you
can tell, you know, the crowd was behind both things that were going
on. What so what we ended on was that talk about what happened afterwards?
When did Braun get up? When did the Shield leave? How did
the crowd respond to the circumstances. Sure, so after the power bomb they
went off air. I'm not sure if this was shown or not, but
the Shield did their pose, They walked up to the ramp, hit their
pose again, and then Braun kind of shakenly gotten up, started throwing chairs
around ringside, visibly aggravated, selling the obviously the power bomb there they hit
with his music he got it, makes a little top from the crowd,
and then that was the end of the night. Interesting. So, by
the way, Zach had orders with with me, Alex, I usually introduced
you guys off air, and I forgot to do it, so Zach,
Alex, Alex, Zach, Hey, Alex, Hey, Zach, how
are you good now? Zach? I'm not throwing it yet, though I
have another follow up question. I just want to get all right, but
you're up next, Alex. What talk about the let's just get this out
of the way up front. How did the crowd respond? How did it
feel in the building. Sometimes you can't tell her it's different in the building.
Versus on TV talk about the evolution of the crowd reaction to Roman on
being in the building on camera for backstage segments coming out against Balor. As
the match with Balor progressed, liked, Did it change? Was a consistent
describe that for us well. During the beginning of Raw, the crowd was
certainly giving him an earfunces of booing. It was a very anti Roman crowd,
and that followed throughout the show's video packages. Anytime he was shown on
the big screen. There was a negative reaction towards him. The beginning promo
where he was kind of taking shots at Corbyn, you know, the crowd
laughed at the jokes, but you know, throughout the most of the night,
it was just pure booing. In terms of the main event, I
think people were so excited to see Finn Balor wrestling for the title that Roman.
The crowd reaction was really a favoring Balor. I wouldn't even say it
was more of a split. It was certainly in the building that felt like
the crowd was all behind Balor. Yeah, I picked up on that.
It really seemed as if once the once the match got deep enough that fans
believed that the finish might happen. They well, there was I'm sorry,
there was some crowd issues going on. Where I was sitting, which was
pretty close to rings eyed area. There was a man that was taunting Roman
Reigns standing up in the first row and security came over asked him to sit
down, and they kicked him out of the building and there was a little
fight, a skirmish that broke out. I would say maybe three quarters of
the ways Ben, So the crowd really wasn't focused on the main event.
I don't know if you guys got that on. Yeah, that's interesting.
They came back from a commercial break and the crowd was all standing and looking
to their left and our right from the hard camera and Rains was staring and
Rains was looking like, you know, like it affect, like it wasn't.
Well, the guy was close enough I think where Roman could probably hear
the verbal assaults, but he was giving him cross chops, and the crowd
was kind of like getting behind this guy who was antagonizing Roman reigins. But
obviously, I mean there was a little skirmish that broke out security WWE security
rushed over. It seemed like initially it was WWW security that asked this gentleman
to please sit down because he was kind of disturbing the crowd and people were
kind of cheering for this guy during the main event, and when WWE security
approached him, he proceeded to cross shop d X style to WW security and
the guy behind him in his row threw a shot at this guy shove,
and then they were a little pustle. W w E security escorted both of
these gentlemen out of the building. But the main antagonist was a gentleman in
a I guess I run a roundy shared first row off the floor, and
really kind of through the main event, people were not focused on the match.
They were focused on this buffoon grown men, you know, trying to
get attention taunt during Roman reigns. So eventually he got escorted out of the
building. But as you like you said, the match picked up and the
crowd got back into the match because I think Balor started to roll a little
bit and the crowd thought, hey, you know, maybe this is gonna
just gonna happen tonight. I assume that fan was high on marijuana, I
mean drunk on alcohol. Yeah, you know, you don't. You never
know what these people in Brooklyn we got. It's a crazy bunch. I'm
a New Jersey person, so I can't say that I'm a New Yorker at
heart. But some of these New Yorkers out are there. They are one
of a kind. I'll tell you that. I think if he was smoking,
potty probably would have been chilling out, eat popcorn and smiling with a
dopey lookout his face. Us probably more alcohol. I totally believe it was
Primarko, But who am I to know. Searching for more great pro wrestling
talk, then join me Jason Powell host him to three weekly Pro Wrestling Boom
podcast. Each week, he'll hear the latest news and analysis for me and
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Plus the Pro Wrestling Boom Podcast features long form interviews with notable names in the
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secondary apps, or visit us to at pwboom dot com. Once again that's
pwboom dot com. Yeah, I mean as a kid growing up, there
were always fights at wrestling shows. Like I feel like, first of all,
I'm glad there aren't, okay, But now I'm going to totally contradict
that I miss it so much, like because as a kid, like the
cool guys just brawling in the crowd. Yes, Like I went to Minnesota
North Star NHL games as a kid and Saint Paul Civic Center a w A
shows, and I'm like ten, eleven, twelve, thirty, fourteen years
old. I just thought it was completely normal that when you grew up you
got really drunk and you got into fights when you went to sporting events,
and it was just like it happened multiple times at like every a w A
show, and it happened all the time at NHL games, and so like
it's weird because to be obviously doesn't sell themselves. Is that is that now?
But I do it is a bit of a little nostalgic throwback when somebody
acts and I'm against it and it's totally an upper britt. So I just
want to be on the record for that. But yes, yeah, well,
I mean in terms of this I mean the gentleman you know, who
was being asked to sit down by security. Someone took liberties and gave this
gentleman a push after he would not leave. So but yeah, for sure
it was the you know, the you're right, there was certainly more fights
back in the old days, that's for sure. In the crowd. Yeah,
I just I mean, I think I think we're all, like,
you know, a little happy that it just wasn't a bunch of beach balls
that caused the Tufel to eat is legitimate thing. There was beach balls being
thrown around, but they were shut down. Security was very, very thorough
with their searches walking into the building. Really interesting. My guess is that
they were on the lookout for beach balls. Yeah, interesting, so more
thorough than other shows you've been too in past years. Probably the last three
nights I've been to. I went to NXT, I was at SummerSlam,
I was here at RAW. The security all three nights were very extensive,
more than usual, I guess, more thorough than usual. So my guess
is there certainly were on the lookout for these beach balls. But a couple
came into play tonight but didn't really make the big plays the big splash.
Yeah, interesting, go ahead, sick. I'm curious what was the bigger
pop Stroman's music when he came out for the cash and or the Shield when
they came out Stop It the Shield, the Shield. I think once that
music hit and set and Dean came out in that you know, Shield of
Tire, I think the crowd, uh that kind of took you know,
over everything that hey, they're back to save Roman. The Shield is back.
So yeah, I think usually, if if all other things are equal,
the surprise beats the expected when when there's a crowd response too. And
I mean obviously people are gonna pop for the Shield no matter what, but
they're gonna pop for a broad too, I would think ti. You know,
otherwise, tie goes to what the fans think is bonus is a bonus
and unexpected. So yeah, yeah interesting. Did what was your attitude about
Roman coming into this weekend? And did anything WWW did with him change your
reaction to him at Bill Sunday Night and tonight. Well, let's put it
this way. I do not think Roman Reigns is a bad wrestler. I
think that the character as a whole, the way w w has presented it
as, you know, one way they're going WWE versus Roman Reigns, you
know, one against all, and now they're using well, hey, brock
Lesner, is you know a champion who doesn't you know, defend and he's
not around. So for me, I'm not a big Roman Reigns guy overall,
just because it's kind of like that John Cena second leg of his career
treatment right now for Roman where it's like, hey, you know, enough
of this guy, enough of this guy. But over the weekend, I
would say they did a nice job of deflecting negative crowd reactions at the end
of his segments or matches. So overall, I'm happy that now Raw has
a champion that's going to be on every week. I think that's good for
the product, that's good for the whole roster. It's better entertainment, better
television. But I'm hoping that Roman loses that felt soon. As someone who's
not a Roman Reigns fan, yeah, I mean interesting. I think what
you just described as exactly what WWB has been going for. Taking somebody who's
not on board with Roman but not immovable and just you know, obstinate about
it and tell a story that you know he wants to be a fighting champion
and Lesnar's not, which is factually true. More power to Lesner for making
more money than anyone not doing it, but it's not personal. But storyline
wise, you know, WWB kind of took the situation they had with Roman
and said, well, we with Lesner. We want Lesner. He is
good for us in a lot of ways, but now and Brock doesn't care,
let's turn him into a bad guy for doing exactly what we agreed he
would do. And just had to help Roman and and and I think when
you're kind of in the moment and watching the shows, you're like, yeah,
belt sort of feels like it's been hijacked by a guy who's never round,
So give us a fighting champion, and then yeah, tell him the
story on Rod and Night and Roman very graciously saying I'm gonna I want to
take on the guy who never got his rematch, made him out to be
a cool stand up guy, and obviously the Sunday Night, I mean,
the way that that all played out, I want to take a moment and
ask you because I'll forget otherwise since we'renant Roman. After the pay per view,
ended last night with Roman celebrating the title win, but not when it
was completely clear that the cashion would not happen because bron had been beat down
and there is a rule if the briefcase touches the stage, it's out of
out of commission for the for the night, and Brock made sure of that.
So how did the crowd respond? I'll ad the last track later.
How did the crowd respond to the moment after the pay per view went off
the air? Well, I think people were cheering mostly because they thought that
Braun Stroman was going to cash in that people were so excited that Braun is
going to come in now. And you know, they cut the graphic,
the ww graphic that shows at the end of pay per views on the big
screen, and they just kind of showed Roman there. Braun wasn't moving,
He really wasn't in the picture. So it was really confusing, and I
think that's why the reaction seemed like it was better. But like I said,
the whole weekend and as well as today, they're shielding Roman from that
negative crowd reaction to give the I guess the look of hey, look he's
not really getting booed, He's getting cheered here, support him, support him.
But yesterday, like I said, it was unclear if Braun would cash
in, so the crowd was hot I think for Braun to make that cash
in, and when it didn't happen, the crowd was kind of confused and
maybe a little bit irritated at some But I think that they did a nice
job of tying up lu Vent's tonight. Obviously, the picture is still not
finished. They have a lot of stuff to get to. He still has
the briefcase. They're going to continue to tease it. But overall, the
crowd certainly was Sunday night, they were confused, so that's why the reaction
did not seem that bad, and tonight the shield came out and kind of
deflected the negative reaction. You can support us on Patreon and get these shows
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PW, Torch VIP and you can also upgrade two other tiers and receive even
more benefits through Patreon. What would have happened with the crowd at Barclay's at
SummerSlam had Braun Nut come out? Like, what was your anticipation going into
the night, And if it was just straight up Rains versus Lessner and Braun
didn't come out before the match, did you get a sense how the crowd
was going to react to that match into each guy based on the story that
was told and everything else. Absolutely, when both men entered, the booze
were deafening, probably equal for both men. The crowd really wasn't behind either
guy. So if Braun were to not have come out at that main event,
you know, in the beginning, I thought it was smart obviously,
but if he would not to have come out, the crowd would have just
completely revolted against the match. At one point, even with Braun out there,
both these guys suck or both these guys suck can't broke out. So
the only reason why the crowd wasn't reacting as negatively to the match as maybe
it should have gotten was because Braun was ringside, but if Braun was not
there, the fans would have burned Barclay Center down the ground. Wow.
So it's a very good thing. Vince did what he did with Braun before
the match, as he was, he was brilliant. It was a as
a fan and not a fan of Roman, but a fan of the product.
I appreciate Vinci Man like taking the attention to detail and crafting away where
his guy. Hey, you know what, he's not getting the crowd reaction
I want, but I'm gonna make it seem like, you know, they're
behind him and it's He did it all weekend. It was incredible the way
that he scripted it. He kudos to vinsic Man that he really protected Roman
reigns. Yeah. Yeah, it's very interesting. Go Zack, you got
a question, question, I got a lot of stuff. Yeah, yeah,
it was I was gonna shift to Ron and Rousey, Yeah ahead,
because Yeah, it seemed to me watching there was a you know a little
bit of a mixed reaction. I think there was a lot involved with her
segment in terms of you know, talking up the other women, going against
Stephanie, calling herself, you know, not brock Lesner what was the reaction
to her, because it came off a little a little rough to me on
TV. Well, the segment itself was a little awkward because you know,
you had to heal women on one side the face women on the other,
and it just seemed like a cluster, like why are the bells there?
They really I know that they were on Summersland yesterday making an appearance, but
they're not really on the midt. You know, they're not active performers.
Why are they there for the segment? I think Ronda certainly has some work
to do on the MIC, and some of her segments feel awkward I think
because of it. But regardless, the crowd reaction to her is insane.
People love her. I think the big name appeal of Ronda Rowsey is,
you know, obviously garnering a lot of attention, but you can tell that
she's passionate about the business and she loves pro wrestling, And as someone myself
who's a fan and passionate about pro wrestling, it's nice to see somebody come
in here and kind of be respectful of the art form and the backstage area.
And obviously the women have her respect, and I think that's because she's
so passionate and it carries over to the fans. But you can see that
she really does love professional wrestling. Yeah, that's interesting when when she just
walked out and I get there's a lot of people like you who are at
Summer Slam also, so it's not like the first time. So you can
kind of combine in both nights. When I ask these questions, But who
seemed to be the biggest star or it's a two or three or four way
tie. Who gave the vibe of being the biggest star tonight? It taking
a consideration, I guess Summer Slam too among the rock along the rock group,
Well, I'll tell you what I think, truly Elias that the reaction
that Elias gets is so genuine and I'm not you know he has it.
And if I said over the weekend from the reactions from the crowd, a
guy who probably is the next big star, I think Elias has that potential.
He's over with the crowd. Is gimmick is great? That would be
my answer. It's my guy, Elias is gonna like this show. It
really is. Yes, we talked about it in the first second too.
Let me let me say this. I was at NXT and dep're talking who
I thought, over the full three days that I've been there, who's really
the biggest star. I'll tell you what, that kid, velveteen Dream has
a real shot. I think that that guy's that star written all over him.
Yeah. I hope it doesn't go to his head. I hope he
listens to the right people and stays on track, because that gimmick and the
way he plays it is, uh, star in the making. I talked
to Steve Austin about that on today's Steve Auston podcast. He had thoughts on
on on the Dream and compared him to some other wrestlers, and it's,
uh, it's it's it's not often you see a gimmick like this that kind
of goes further than most people expected it too. It's it's sorry. It
just seems very organic, you know, the whole evolution of him becoming the
Dream. It's awesome to see. And hopefully when he comes up to the
main roster whenever that point is, hopefully they do right by him and set
him up in spots where he can be successful, because he can very well
turn into a mid carter very quickly. But if they use him in his
talent. Shine. He's got a shine. Now. You know Elias is
liking the show. Somebody who's not is Triple H. He cut his first
wrestling promo in Ages and and made an appearance in front of the crowd in
Brooklyn, talk passionately about loving this business. He's gonna do it till the
day he dies, make sure it doesn't go anywhere. Talked about his era
and and how great it was. It was like this, I mean,
we haven't talked about it yet on the show's act, but I thought it's
like the perfect blend of all the good and all the not so good things
about Triple H promos over the years, and Triple H to the wrestler.
So it was sort of a nostalgia trip in a good and bad way in
certain ways when it comes to his promos, how I want to ask Alexell,
Well, we've got him on the phone here, how was the reaction
to Triple H coming out? Because to me on t V, it felt
like the crowd was wondering, Okay, which version are we getting so we
know how to respond? Yeah, I think the crowd was Initially I wouldn't
say on the fence because you know, we don't know are we getting heel
triple H? What are we getting NXT creator triple H? Are we getting
the game? What is this? What's going on? But the promo itself
got a good reaction from the crowd. I liked it. I always here
for so I see by the crowd nicely. I think that the crowd was
behind him. And also when he came out, he got a really nice
NXC chant from the crowd, which he clearly appreciated. And then he I
think he made a remark something about NXT, how they did a great job
or the performance was great on Saturday, something along those lines. Oh,
he was so political. I loved it. He said, you picked up
on that tact. Yeah, here goes NXT blew the roof off this place
Saturday night, and then you can just see the gears churning. Oh my
god, I'm in trouble. And he goes and SummerSlam took it to a
whole other level, and I'm like, good he had to make sure that
he put over SummerSlam. He had too. Yes, Yes, it was
just awesome. It was just great seeing that happened on the spot, you
know, on his feet. That's why they script promost folks, because you
can get yourself in trouble if you're not as quick on your feet as Hunter
to make sure you fix anything you step in. Need an extra dose of
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apps on iPhone and Android devices, or you can stream them directly from our
ad free VIP mobile site See you in the Paradise. So so yeah,
so Hunter got a star reaction, you know, once fans kind of figured
out who he was. As far as the active wrestlers on Raw, Finn
Balor, Seth Rollins, Dean Ambrose, Uh the yeah, just like talk
about Bobby Lashley, throw him in there, rains who ended up seeming like
the biggest star of the night other than, as you said, Elias being
kind of a guy who fans are really behind right now, I would say
probably Finn Balor. I thought that he, uh, the initial segment of
the opening of the show was really well well done. Overall, I thought
that the tease of hey Balor may do this tonight, you can tell that
the crowd was really behind him. So I would say he was probably the
star of the night. Bobby Lashly, to me, I think that they're
kind of screwing this up. He's not great on the mic himself, and
the crowd really isn't behind him. I think Corbyn's playing is part really well,
but the star of the night probably for me, has to go to
Balor. But then again, Also, I do love, love Seth Rollins
and he really wasn't in any of the matches tonight, but he uses charisma
and his entrance is always awesome. Zac. Yeah, well, I wanted
to ask about Seth Rollins and Den Ambrose to two questions. Actually, the
first is on the on the on the show watching MTV. They they was
pretty heavy handed in talking about how Dean Ambrose has this new style to him
and he broke out some new moves. You know, did you get the
sense that you were watching like a just a rebooted character or did he kind
of in the arena there, you know, show the same old, same
old Dean as he went through his first match back. No, it seemed
like a revamped Dean Ambrose. Like you said, he showcased some of his
new moves this evening, but he seems obviously physically different, but it seemed
like he was moving a little bit quicker, not as slow as the style.
It's good for Dean Ambrose. I mean, I didn't really think that
he was a top guy at the time of his injury. But with this
revamped Dean Ambrose, there's a lot of possibilities and matches with Seth Rollins and
Roman reigns now you know, the re breakup of the Shield. But I'm
excited to see where this new revamped Dean Ambrose goes and I'm willing to give
the shot. Yeah. And on that note, because you were the building
last night at SummerSlam, you know, how was the interaction between Seth and
Dean different last night to tonight? Because last night I felt watching the show,
there was like a tension between the two because I think a lot of
people got the sense that Dean may or may not turn heel that that tension
socided a little bit for me tonight, But you, being in the building,
compare both nights between both guys. I think that the Summer Slam night,
like you said, I think that the crowd was kind of waiting for
Ambrose to turn on Rollins. But I thought it was also a little bit
weird that they opened SummerSlam within ambrose intro. I guess that they were both
you know, him and Mac and Tyre were both involved in the Intercontinental Championship
match, but it seemed like tonight they were more buddy buddy, and I
think that that was, you know, obviously a sign to come at the
end of the night that hey, you know we're still We're still close and
where you know our our bond is rock solid. So when they came out
together and Ambrose was wearing Dan ambroses, when Rollins came out wearing Dan ambros
his T shirt, I think the crowd was behind them. Both of them
got really good reactions, but definitely more Buddy Buddy closer tonight than yesterday.
It seemed interesting, well, was there any part of the raw TV broadcast
that did not work? From a in building experience, can be a top
segment or a lower end segment, but what just did work for me?
What worked? Surprisingly? I thought the Elias Hawkins segment was one of the
higher points of the night. Honestly, it was nice to kind of see
Hawkins come out and play to that hey I haven't won and oh in you
know two hundred and sixteen. That segment was good. I liked how they
put Elias over clean and Fast. A low segment for me, probably the
AOP match against tightest worldwide. For me, that didn't work. The crowd
wasn't behind it. The wave chance kind of started during that time. The
crowd was getting a little bit restless, So for me low point would be
the AOP tag match. The Alias segment was good, and obviously the ending
of Raw was awesome and the crowd was really really into everything that was going
on. That Braun was there, the Shield was back. But yeah,
the high points Elias, the end of the match, of the main event
seemed like there a few times where there were video packages either from what happened
earlier on Raw or from Summer Slam, backed kind of a bookmarking or attached
to commercial breaks, so there were long gaps where there wasn't something going on
in the ring. Did did it seem like that was more the case this
time and did the crowd get restless for that or did the show kind of
flow from an in person experiences. I think that the video packages were a
little bit excessive. Tonight they showed the Triple H Undertaker video package that went
about it felt like forever but probably two minutes, and you know, video
package after the next, after the next. There was definitely segments where it
felt like we were getting no in ring action or in ring promos. Everything
was kind of like a backstage for you know, spots, and and like
you said, these video packages that I think as the night got on,
the crowd was getting more restless because the tasting was you know, a little
off. But overall, there definitely were segments where it felt like a lot,
you know, there was a lot of nothing going on. Did did
use sense that most of the people at RAW went to SummerSlam and NXT or
did you get a sense it was a kind of a different vibe and feel
for the RAW people. People attending RAW compared to the weekend shows. Definitely
a different vibe. I think that tonight there was definitely more families, more
children there than Summer Slam and NXT, which are probably more of a hardcore
fan show. But the families were definitely out tonight, a lot more kids
than there were over the weekend. Interesting. Yeah, thanks for downloading today's
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dot com slash go vi ip get SummerSlam seem to like torturously long or did
it seem like one really big match after another that just held your interest and
kept your energy out because there was so much star power coming out one after
another for five six hours. Well, I thought the spacing for Summer Slim
was done really well. I thought that the match placements were done correctly.
It gave you know, you had room to breathe. But coming from Saturday
Night where you get these five matches, five big matches happened so quickly,
sitting through Summer Slim seems like a longer process, and by the time you
get to the main event, you're definitely worn out a little bit because still
it's a six hour show. But the spacing itself was nice. It was
definitely downtime. But like you said, a lot of the matches felt like
big match, big match, big match, breather, you know, big
match and then a nice breather, did it? I thought the spacing was
okay. Yeah, I thought the match order was really smart. I'm gonna
flip. I'm gonna flipped Miss Brian and Seth Ziegler and wreck respect. Uh
yeah, you may be open with Brian. I thought the crowd would have
been all over that. Yeah. Yeah, again, that's something Steve Buston
and I get into. So check that out if you haven't. We kind
of discussed the pros and cons of that because I thought that Miss Daniel Bryan
on watching on the network, the crowd didn't go nuts for it, and
it seemed like a match constructed and executed in a way where it sort of
deserved the fans to be more into it and reacting to it more. What
what was it like in the building? Was that a match that were the
crowd reaction didn't seem to live up to the hype and the anticipation or did
that did did in the building? Did it not come across it way?
I thought that the crowd would definitely be more into the match there was Granted,
I thought that the match was kind of in the beginning, very slow
moving so maybe the crowd wasn't necessarily behind it as early as they should have
been. The video packages live were really cool the showcase of the ivalry over
the eight years. But in my opinion, if they were to have put
the title on Miss and it would have been a title match, it would
have had a whole different feel. The match would have felt bigger, more
meaningful. But I definitely thought that the crowd was going to be more into
it, And I don't know how it came across necessarily, but I thought
that for a lot of the match, the crowd was kind of silent.
One of the longer matches that SummerSlam was a crowd most into or was it
sort of a tie especially I guess a J Joe and Ziggler Seth come to
mind. But you know, there were other stand out singles matches too that
that maybe got a better response. Well, the Rhonda match obviously got a
huge response. The It was a nice little touch. The crowd really popped
for Natty, you know, everyone was really behind her, you know,
obviously for the passing of her father, so it was nice, but the
crowd was able to kind of give her that moment. But for me,
a match that, I would say the crowd really enjoyed. MH. I
would say, you know what, the New Day and the Bludgeon Brothers,
That match itself was really really good. The crowd was getting really into the
match. And then when they had the kind of crappy finished there, the
crowd was not happy. But that match itself was a really good match.
Interesting. All right, Well let's go ahead, Zach. You can come
back to our if you want to have a summer song question too. Either
way, Well, yeah, I was gonna ask about bron Stroman again,
comparing both nights. So you know, last night he came out for his
match with Kevin Owens, he did the he did the the tease of the
cash in in the main event yesterday and then you know he was out there
tonight. Did did you get the sense that people were were in on him
each time? Or did his kind of like seeing him three times in the
same arena with a lot of the same crowd. Did the spectacle of seeing
him wane as the weekend went on? Well, I thought the on Sunday
when he came out before the match started, the crowd was really excited.
But I don't know necessarily if it was because they were excited for Stroman to
become champion, or the tease of it, or the fact that we were
not just going to get a Roman Brock match, which the crowd did not
want. So the element of adding Braun there, the crowd was more into
the main event, I think because people were ready for Braun to cash in
tonight. When he came out, the reaction was huge. Everyone was behind
him in the crowd. The I guess the pop that he got was awesome.
Like I said, the majority of the crowd, they were really into
it, And I don't know, necessarily like I said, is that because
Braun is a guy who the fans are behind, which I do think they
are. But I think in both cases it was just the fact that hey,
we're not, you know, leaving this night with Roman as the champ.
Yeah. So so I guess the a follow up would be so you
kind of reference both times the biggest pop being, you know, outside of
his of his mass. So did you get the sense that people just wanted
to see him or like, was there any interest at all and actually seeing
the guy wrestling a match not necessarily against Kevin Owens. I know, I
realized it's not the best booked program. But you know, did his match
itself and him in it create any interest or is it just him with Roman
Reigns that gets people hooked. I think it's him with Roman Reigns because his
reaction when he came out against Kevin Owens it was loud, but the the
I guess the cheers that he was getting were deafening based off of, Hey,
Roman's not going to walk out of here with the title tonight. I
thought that was more it. Okay, was there a match after ra went
off the air? Did they advertise anything that didn't happen or did something happen
or nothing happen? Well, they advertised a dark match main event. I
don't remember the match itself, but they advert tiesed it and after the Braunze
segment where he was power bombs through the table, Broad walked to the back
after the shield did and basically they just said, Hey, that's it for
the night. We'll see you all tomorrow, and then they showed the SmackDown
graphic on the Titans Tron. Okay, yeah, and how about did you
get there in time to see the matches before Ron went on the air.
Unfortunately I did not Okay, yeah, well we'll have to find out how
well we soccer Hawk, how Mike Cannellis did or something like that. Later.
We got to see Kurt Hawkins on TV this week. Yes, so
oh. On the fan Rockets, I noticed a little bit before the Rains
match, it seemed like security gathered around to the left of the announced tables
in the crowd area. I was wondering if that fan had shown signs of
something, or if security is just kind of roaming around anyway, or if
you picked up on anything before the ruckets with a fan in Roman Rains.
No, I didn't notice anything ring side, but like I said, the
fan was pretty belligerent, kind of causing a stir. The crowd was reacting
to him, so it made the extra fan protection to the men didn't jump
into the ring because it seemed like he was headed in that direction. Man,
it seems he was. It seemed like that was that was his ultimate
intentions. So where where was? Where was his seat or did he run
up from somewhere else. No, he was on the first row of the
seats that are next to the floor, so the crowd behind him, everyone
could see him. He was standing up in the first row. So his
first row for a hockey his first row for a hockey game. Yeah,
first roll for hockey game curs off right off where the steps are that go
onto the floor. So yeah, the first roll for a hockey interesting Okay,
And I was I gonna say about about the ruc Oh did you make
out like what he was saying in particular, like was it threatening or just
hecka, Like, I'm just kind of curious it just he I mean,
he was a passionate Roman rangater, swearing at him, flipping him off,
giving him a cross chops. Anytime Roman was in the corner where his seat
kind of was, he was getting louder, banging on the Plexi glass that
was going along the first row, kind of really making a stir. But
yeah, he certainly was bludrain. Wow. Wow. I could be wrong,
but Roman locked eyes with this guy and I'm pretty sure security maybe did
something after Roman spotted this guy going crazy and the crowd was kind of,
uh, you know, responding to this guy heckling Roman did the crowd like
saying no, no, no, goodbye or cheer him or boo. As
he was dragged out of the build. The crowd was saying please don't please,
don't leave, Please don't leave. Let him stay, because he was
just you know, he was just kind of yelling at Roman. I mean,
granted he was being belligerent and getting a crowd reaction, but he was
that over the top that people were all around the arena were kind of looking
at this guy in the first row. So, I, Alex, was
he did he seem like a genuine threat or did he seem like he was
just a leader of fan movement that ww I and Reins in particular objected to
because he was just successful at getting attention. Yeah, that's exactly it.
He certainly wasn't a threat. He wasn't a threatening guy by any means,
trust me. Yea, No, he was, uh, you know,
a middle aged man. It seemed like he was actually with his kids.
I could be, but that made but this guy was flipping off Roman,
being very loud, very obnoxious, and I think that WWE security team kind
of jumped on that knowing that, you know, Hey, who am I
to say? Roman definitely saw it, But I know Roman Locke dies with
this guy. Wow, fascinating. That's all right, Zac, anything else
you want to ask, No, I'm good I'm good. That's a that's
a great report. Yeah, So where where did you stick? What you
pay? And are you happy with your choices all all weekend? Yeah?
I sat downstairs today, bought tickets on stub Hub. Paid about seventy dollars
for the tickets, so I was very happy sat down low. I was
off four rows from the floor, fourth row of a hockey game for looking
at it that way. Last night I was in the two hundred, one
hundred section, paid about one hundred and fifty dollars for that one. And
Saturday night I sat upstairs and paid uh thirty dollars for that ticket, So
we're all not too bad all over. Yeah. Do you have a favorite
experience of the weekend, which which show? Uh? My favorite experience was
the Adam Cole ricochet match, probably one of the better, one of the
better matches that I've seen live. And the reaction that both guys get,
especially Adam Cole. Uh, it's it's all some the reaction the crowd gives
him. So for me, that was probably the high point of the whole
weekend was the Adam Cole ricochet match and overall event, if you had to
pick one to go to and you had to skip the other two. Oh,
NXT Takeover would be the event that I would go to for sure every
year, consistently the best show. And you know, as someone who I
don't necessarily watch NXT every week, but I watch all the takeovers and follow
the product. And it's easier to follow the product because mostly the relevant things
you need to see are the takeovers that happened maybe once every two months.
But for me, NXT Takeover, if I had a choice of the three,
that would be the show. Cool. Alex really enjoyed the conversation.
I'm glad we're able to get ahold of yet appreciate it. I enjoyed talking
to you guys. Thank you very mux very much. Do you remember when
Hulkogan shot the world and form the New World Order? Or when Stone Cold
Steve Aoston passed down in the Sharp Shooter to break the hit Manhart. I'm
Torch contributor Frank petty Ani and I reviewed these shows and many more for my
exclusive VIP podcast, Pro Wrestling Than and Now. Together with a rotating chair
of co hosts, we go back ten, twenty even thirty years review pay
per views from top to bottom talk about where the wrestlers were at the time
and compare what took place then to what is taking place now. You get
exclusive access to these and other podcasts as part of your Pwtorch VIP membership,
which is compatible with the Apple Podcasts app. Visit pwtorch dot com slash go
vip for details and sign up form. All right, so we are back
for the Mailbax segment. Zach, talk about your contributions to pwtorch dot com.
I'm in go vip and check it out. We'd really appreciate it.
Awesome, Thank you. All right, Let's let's go to the mail back
here and begin with a lot, a lot about the Shield and Roman reigns.
That'll be a central focus tonight. Not a lot of people responding to
Triple H and his problem, just just saying we're not ignoring him. Hunter
just they didn't they just didn't commit. Okay, Tim from Cleveland says,
was that a shield heel turn? If so, I'm all for it.
Let's explore this for a moment. I mean, it's reading things at all
in not just seeing that as a triple heel turn? Or is that preposterous
and definitely not what was what was expected or how Vince expects people to look
at it. Oh yeah, I I I mean never saying never, right,
But I did not get that sense when I was watching it. I
got the sense I got was kind of as I already have shared, that
just they were going for wild factor, a really cool moment that people will
walk out of the building of going holy crap, that was that was cool
and kind of ignore all the nuances of the narrative not really going together.
So I don't think it was a heel turn. I think there could be
some interesting storylines that could stem out of what happened. But I think Broun's
still a baby face. I think Roman is still a baby's face, and
I think Seth and Dean all still baby faces. For as convoluted as that
sounds, I think that's what we'll get come Monday next week. Yeah,
I Www dot com article didn't really indicate that we're supposed to do the heat
the Shield for what they did. It just talked about the arrival of Dean
and Seth back in the signature black colors of the Shield, and Stroman didn't
hesitate to throw down with the brothers in Black. But the hounds of Justice
overwhelmed him all at the same after Rain speared Stroman on the outside, setting
up a monstrous triple Power brom through the announced table. And yeah, so
no, no real judgment of the Shield in any kind of way, just
describing it rather neutrally. So you know, if the headline was, you
know, what's off of the Shield? Why did they do that? I
or the Shield go dark, turn turned to the dark Side and Triple Team
poor Bron nothing like that. So I don't think so, but let's not
okay. Yeah, well I was just gonna say too. You know,
you listen to the commentary back and you know, even like last night during
the Becky angle, you know they're they're saying like, you know, oh
what Becky got so frustrated that she got to this point, and you know,
we haven't seen this side of Becky before. But there was there was
none of that tonight kind of you know, hinting at a heel run for
the Shield. It was more like, hey, this is this is a
huge moment the shields back together. So so I think you can look at
that commentary and get some clues as to as to what they want you to
be feeling right now. And I almost think Vince just gets a get out
of Roman being booed embarrassment card if I don't know if that's too worthy.
But by matching Roman with the Shield against Braun, you're gonna have more people
cheering Roman than you would otherwise. But those who boo him are booing him
because while we had the guts to put him against Braun, who's make a
popular whereas if you put Roman against Kevin Owens or Bun or Baron Corbin or
you know, pick your heel in Roman gets booed. Now Vince has egg
on us face. It didn't work. He tried to get him cheered.
It is not being cheered. Vince has just sort of thrown his hands of
just going we got the Shield, we got Braun. They're big stars,
they're gonna clash, they're gonna be themselves. Cheer who you freaking want,
I don't care. Just give us a reaction. And it's probably smart because
you can't tell how popular and popular Reins is. And he's probably got this
booked out, you know, between now in Mania or certainly you know for
months ahead in his mind where there will be a moment that he thinks,
okay, Roman against a solid heel at some point, but it'll be done
in a way where he thinks Roman will get cheered. And I think it's
it is his mission right now to position Roman where the crowd response does not
seem like a rejection of Roman, but rather an embrace of who happens to
be standing opposite him, who is also positioned to be cheered. So Vince
wins either way. He wins. He wins on red or black on the
roulette wheel. But yeah, and the other thing with that too is,
you know, he has the universal title back back on Raw and I got
the sense watching the show today that that that really gave for me just a
little bit of extra structure to the show, Like there was, you know,
a concrete hierarchy and a lot of things pointed toward that belt. So
it was it was refreshing to have that back. And I think that that
itself may help Rains a little bit, and that he's the guy holding it
and it's back on Raw weekly where we haven't seen it in you know,
over eighteen months almost, So I think that's an element in play here too
that could that could help Rains as long as everything else gets buttoned up around
him. Let's go to Brian t and Kentucky, says Wade and Zach.
I'm so angered at this moment. This was at ten fifteen pm Central.
I'm so angered at this moment, so eleven fifteen ears from right after Row.
I'm not even sure if this email will be coherent. The Shield coming
out to help Roman tonight was the dumbest thing I think I've seen in Raw
and twenty five years. Wow, I guess they are all heels now storming
out on their old shield get ups to help Roman to not get booed ridiculous
After ruining Summer Sime last night, taking it from a solid be to an
half of the close of the show, I didn't they think they could get
anything else more wrong, but they showed me tonight the Shield attacking Stroman as
an apparent heel faction that's left we speechless. This garbage makes me want to
stop watching wrestling altogether. Thanks for letting me rant my brain may have exploded.
Otherwise, Well, we are here to avoid brain explosions, so definitely
you don't have to wait for the weight Keiller Pro Wrestling post show to find
out what I thought of Monday Night Raw and SmackDown each week. You can
check out my reports that are updated live throughout Raw and SmackDown at pewtorch dot
com. My written report we'll tell you what's happening in detail in case you
missed the show, and it will also analyze key segments and give my random
thoughts end quips on what I am watching as it airs. So check it
out every Monday night and Tuesday Night at pewtorch dot com. That also applies
to WWWE pay perviews. I cover those live at pwtorch dot com with a
detailed written report with star rating. And of course you can find other TV
reports from other contributors to pw T work such as nxt, RWAH, Impact
Wrestling and more. Check it out pwtorg dot com. You'rer first stop four
TV and pay per view written reports. Let me read another another response here
about this same topic. Jared says, Hello Wade, This Jared from Omaha.
Quick question. Everyone was predicting Dean to turn heel on Seth and that
didn't happen. But what about if his Shield reunion is leading to a possible
turn on Roman? Maybe at the Royal Rumble leading to a triple threat match
for the championship at Wressomania. Your thoughts and where does bron fit into that
scenario? Personally? I think Broun will have a short title reign sometime between
now in the Royal Rumble. So another reaction to what the Shield did tonight,
let's i'll read one more from Zach G from Indiana. We can just
kind of bat around thoughts on these. I can bet you've already covered the
end of Brawl by now, but I have a couple of comments and questions
about the whole match, not just the ending. Regarding the ending, I
think the Shield reunion makes them all look like total heels. What did Brod
do wrong? Cash in his opportunity he earned and that WWE gives out every
year to use their phrase against them? What injustice were they correcting? I
may be in the minority, but that didn't help Roman. To me,
it made it look like Seth and Dean. It made me look at Seth
Indean differently and frankly, not in a positive way. Regarding the match with
Baler itself, it was a great match. My first question is regarding Finn.
Why on earth would he be the demon for a match with Baron Corvin
and not a title match the next night. He pulls a demon out when
needed. You don't need, don't you think? Don't you think you needed
for a title match? Okay, I guess pretty bold strategy. Secondly,
I'm excited for Roman to give Kevin Owens his rematch next week, since he
also didn't get a rematch after losing the championship. I know it's different circumstances,
but a guy can dream, he says. I just went v IP
last week, and I'm so glad I did two exclamation marks. I recently
changed jobs, allowing me more time for podcasts, and there are so many
I can't even keep up. It's well worth the ten dollars a month.
Take advantage of the one dollars sale price people, thank you, Zach,
get PW George, v ip info dot com, and coupon code. What
isn't a coupon code I've already forgotten. Do you remember Zach dollar Slam eighteen?
Dollars Slam eighteen, thank you? Yes, yes, dollars Slam eighteen.
There we go. I was totally not prepared for someone an email up
to plug it, but I had to take advantage of dollars, slam one
eight all one word, noil spaces. Thank you, Zack. I'm glad
you went VPP. I'm glad you're liking it. I sincerely, like,
really like emails like that. I appreciate it. We're really hard on this
and it's great when we can get people to take advantage of it and support
us and feel like they're getting a lot back for it. So thanks for
that. So anyways, as I want to throw those three emails at you,
I mean, it's anecdotal, but it's not like the people are super
positive about Seth and Dean coming out and triple teaming Braun for doing nothing wrong,
even if at the same time a lot of people are excited to see
the Shield together again. I wonder if there's not gonna be This goes all
the way back to the CM pump podcast, fans taking a step back from
being immersed in the product and going Okay, now we're seeing something we don't
want to see, which is Bronze Roman getting beat up by three guys.
And it's all because Vince is taking the positive vibes in goodwill that Dean Ambrose
has from his return and Seth Rowlins has for everything he's been doing for the
last few years and use that to try to help Roman get over by dressing
up as a shield again, and it causes fans to kind of push back
a little harder, going, wait a second, we're just seeing it's all
about Roman once again, and they're sacrificing Seth and Dean at the same time
and having them act in a way that's not really honorable. I mean,
is there a chance the spackfires, Well, certainly, certainly there is.
I think the more heavy handed they get with it, the worst it's gonna
be. They really have to be careful and walk that fine lines so that
they don't do that. You know, Rollins on Ambros, especially Rolins at
this point have a ton of equity with the audience and they're really anchoring part
of the WWB audience that is against Roman, like they're they're keeping them interested
with the IC title matches and say that's just general run for the last better
part of a year. So you know, you mess with that too much
and you're really I think you're playing with fire. So they have to be
careful as far as just the overall with the segment and them running out against
Braun. I think it's so interesting because I just did not that the thought
of a heel turn for them did not cross my mind one time while I
was watching it, Like it just didn't. I don't know if it was
just excitement for seeing the shield or the commentary, but my brain crow cheering
and they get right and the crowd cheering, like I just my brain didn't
go that route. So I'm trying to I'm trying to recalibrate in real time
here and kind of go back, go back to it. But just looking
at it, there just was no heelish tendencies for for anybody out there.
That's why I go back to big moment, leave it at that, And
honestly, I can see Kevin Owens next week making a mistake about, hey,
I didn't get a rematch either, Roman, like give me my match
and they, you know, go to that next week. So I can
definitely see that happening. It would make a lot of sense, especially given
the fact that Owens wasn't on the show tonight, so a lot of balls
in the air right now for him. But ultimately, I guess my opinion
on it is I just go back to I think Vince wanted to get out
of this weekend. I think he wanted people to have a good time,
be happy, not boo reins out of the building. And I think he
really pulled many rabbits out of the hat in order to do that. And
we'll just have to see where it goes. But I am just not reading
much into it past that. At this point. Let me introduce another email
into the because I said, we got a lot on this. I'm not
going to read all of them, but this touches on something we're just talking
about. Aaron from North Carolina said, it took me a while to gather
my thoughts after my mind was continuously blown by just how far Vince will go
to get Roman cheered last night, and he sent this up about forty fifteen
minutes after ran it. Last night was bad enough by using Braun coming out
to keep people in their seats when they had no intention of having Braun cash
in. However, to night and by the ways, really interesting what Alex
said that the crowd was going to boot intensely and NonStop Roman and Lesser last
night was bad enough. Okay, so having Roman invite Finn out for a
title shot just for cheers and having Braun come out again just so the crowd
went crap all over. Roman pinning fin Clean was bad? How dared www?
Insult me as a fan, insult all of us by sending out the
Shield to help Roman take down Braun just for a few cheers. How darely?
How dare they try to play us? I am offended. If you
want Roman as champ, then just do your job and make him a good
champion who fans care about. Don't use other wrestlers that fans love to create
false reactions that will play Kate, Vince's ego and the sponsors. This was
all just too much for me. Finn is a favorite of mine, but
I didn't even want to see the match because I knew how it would end.
Dean is also one of my favorites, and as excited as I am
that he is back, I felt my heart sink when the Shield came out
to help Roman. My apologies for the read police. Can you shed a
positive light on this for me? Where do y'all see this going? Ps?
I'd like Dean doing a new move set. It was cool the same
showcase Marvis talent. Yeah, so I mean again anecdotally a lot of people
not not reacting positively, and I think seeing it as Seth and Deep being
used as as chess pieces in the Roman Reigns game. Yeah, well and
and uh, you know that's that's what it was. And so I think
you're going to have a contingent of the audience that will say, like that
Twitter post, hey I can't stand Roman Reigns, but I absolutely love that.
And then you're gonna have people say, look, I sick and tired
of getting tricked into liking Roman Reigns. And I you know, I kind
of think it's in a way, it's two separate conversations because I think,
like I said at the top of the show, you there's certainly it's certainly
worth the time to debate the merits of why they have to do what they
do. Is it worth, you know, sacrificing all these other baby faces
on the show that are more over than the baby face that they're trying to
help get over And it's like, you have all that stock that you're just
wasting away. And I think that's a conversation to have, and it certainly
would be an interesting one. But as far as just the execution of tonight,
that's I still think a cool moment that gets a passing grade for me,
given given the situation and given all the pieces at play. So you
know, it's a like I said, a lot of balls in the air,
and they caught quite a few of them in my ownest and it sounds
like I might be in the minority of that, so who knows. Yeah,
we'll run a poll on Twitter see at least what followers of p too
re Torch on Twitter think, because I'm curious. Now, all right,
well we'll hand on the note. Zach, Thank you so much, fun,
fun conversation, so much to to dive into. Thank you for having
me. As always, I always enjoy being up excellent, I enjoy having
you on. I appreciate that thanks to our listeners also, and our our
callers and our outside correspondent and those who emailed. I hope it was a
helpful therapy session, although I think for people who are happy that the Shield
are back together, we've we've caused them to have to go to therapy now
because they're like, yeah, all right, thanks Zach, Thanks mate.
All right, if you're VIP member, let this roll, because we're gonna
tack on over twenty minutes more of mailbag questions that Zach and I addressed.
The show just got too long and if we go too long on these files,
it ends up being difficult for the download to work with our server on
the free show, so we did about twenty minutes more of mailbag. That
is a VIP exclusive bonus for our VIP members. Again, if you're not
a VIP member, thank you so much for supporting the show. Thank you
for supporting Progressing Towards. Thanks for supporting us here on the wait Tiller,
Progressing post show and Pro Wrestling podcast and until tomorrow for the postmackdown show on
behalf of Zach. This is Wade signing up longing for some nostalgia or maybe
you want to learn some wrestling history. They'll miss the nineties Past cast.
Every Friday on the PW Towards Daily Cast feed, Alex and Patrick will transport
you thirty years into the past by taking you through the Torch issue from that
very week. Follow news from the WWF and WCW and all the happenings from
across the wrestling industry in real time as The Torch reported it thirty years ago.
That's the nineties pass cast every Friday on the PW Torch Daily Cast feed.
All right, so VF you members, here we go with some bonus
mail bag. So Nathan emails. He says, regarding the Ronda Rossi Championship
win this second night in a row, that Nicky and Bribella have gotten in
the ring and tried to be a part of the moment when it has nothing
to do with them. Why do you think they keep trying to hijack segments
and acting like they started the women's Revolution. Yeah, that was a little
spit. Take a line. Thanks for all the hard work you put in.
A huge fan me from Melbourne, Australia, Melbourne, Australia. Yeah,
Zach, I mean, Nicky's gonna end up in a big match at
Evolution one way or the other. And this is this is that happening before
very eyes? Yeah, it seems it seems that way. And I,
you know, I wasn't a huge fan of that either, so I kind
of agree with with the emailer. I think, you know, I think
the Bella's and Nicky Bella and Breto have have their place in women's wrestling history
in the w w E. But you know, right now on the on
that roster. You have just a ton a ton of a ton of talent
like Ember Moon and Sasha and Bailey that just are underutilized and will be so
in favor of of of Nicky Bella, who's who is never on their level
anyway. So I thought, you know, I think it's a move that
gets some some some eyeballs. You know, she's in the public eye,
she's got the reality show, she's got the you know, relationship and drama
with Consina. You know, historically WWE likes to latch onto that kind of
thing. So I don't I think that's what it is. I'd rather the
attention to be elsewhere, but you know, it is what it is.
Yep. I want I do want to go back to Jared's email asking about
a possible triple threat at Mania with the Shield. I want to address his
question specifically, what is a long term of Is the Shield get together just
help Roman get cheered or is the Shield coming out together? Because you think
that's actually gonna be the central theme for the next six months of Roman reigns
with twists and turns and turns like you know where he actually feuds with them
and it's a triple threat match with the Shield, a WrestleMania level match at
this point or something they could build to or does it feel like no,
No, let give us some fresh opponents for everybody and keep them apart.
No. I think now that the Shields back together, and regardless of what
they do between now and and and WrestleMania as a as a unit together,
I think, in my opinion, the end game for them is a big
time WrestleMania match, the three of them against each other. They're all in
their primes right now, they're all really over with the audience. They've all
won championships, and you know, with the story of Roman beating Brack in
the rear view mirror, like, you got to look to to what's next,
And I think that's a that's a big that's a big match that doesn't
include part timers. It's it's it's three top guys on the roster that that
can go and that are you know, the biggest star. So I would
definitely if it's me, I'm pushing towards something to that effect. I'm not
sure who plays the heel, who plays the baby face and all that at
this point, but I think you can you can get some legs out of
the Shield coming back, use them as a unit, use them to protect
Rains until they get to WrestleMania, and then once they get there, blow
it up and either have just a respectful showdown between three men that are deserving
of the title, or have Ambrose turn heel or I mean, jeez,
Rains turn heel on them. That would be huge too, but I think
there's just a lot of story there and to not go with it on a
big stage would be money left on the table. Uh Pert An email from
Andrew Probably not an original question, but what's the end game of the most
recent Shield reunion in an attempt to keep Brains popular? Or did they reunite
the Shield for someone, probably am Rose, to split them up again?
If they have someone turn heal and break up the Shield again, will that
feel too redundant? Would a second breakup make it too hard to ever reunite
them for a third time. I read that because I'm against breaking them up
and feuding them. I think, like, okay, Dean turning on Seth
or Dean turning on Roman. It feels different than reuniting them and having them
operate together as a unit and then have a breakup. It feels like it's
the same thing, but in a way it's different. Having Dean turn on
Seth is different than Dean turn on the shield or break up the shield.
So I'm I'm with Andrew. I think if they break up the shield where
they're together, and the breakup happens when they're in unit as a shield in
some circumstance, it really you're really spending the last coin that you have where
the because no one's gonna buy the shield being together again. I just I
mean five years from now, maybe you know, but you have to travel
a lot of roads on separate brands and before fans will take it seriously again
and you start going on that road of you know, Kurt Angle turning so
much, or going back to the nineties like Luker turning so much, where
Randy Orton in the two thousands, where it's like, I don't even know
what to think about this guy anymore because there's no constitution guiding them. And
I think it'll hurt Dean if they do it. Now. If Roman is
one who turns heel, that's novel enough that it's different, and I think
you could take a journey with Roman where you could reunite them later, but
I think if Seth or Dean turned, I think you're hurting the chances of
people taking a reunion. Seriously, ever, again, yeah, that's a
that's a that's a really good point. Actually, do you I mean for
the WrestleMania match though, do you think they have to officially break up to
have that match? I mean, part of the interest for me is just
you know, hey, we're three guys, we're brothers or what have you,
and we all have claimed to this title. Let's see who the better
man is. Let's battle, and then we come out on the other side
and see what's what. I think there's a way to walk that line without
having to turn them. But they really have to do some intricate storytelling to
do so. Yeah, Romans from New Jersey says, seriously, does miscmah
have it in his own personal mission to make me hate wrestling? He's been
doing it? Hello, this He's been doing it since I was twenty one
when Triple H Pender rocket with many A two thousand. Sorry, just have
to vent here, but hey, everyone go vip, So there we go.
Yeah, I mean some I think people who like the angle are probably
not emailing to go, hey, that was cool, you know, like
we're gonna get emails from people who have the strong emotional reaction of venting about
something that they did not like about it looking at well interesting. On promosing
dot net, they put up a poll grading the show. Nine percent gave
it an A, seventeen percent of B, twenty two percent a C,
twenty eight percent a D in twenty and twenty four percent in F, so
fifty two percent gave it a D or inn F. It's early voting.
But again, are people who have those strong emotions you know, I mean,
you know, it's not scientific polling, it's I think it's worth it's
a good launching point for conversation. That are people who were upset, the
ones voting, and the ones who thought I was kind of fun not voting.
I don't know because just I mean, I could see say an average
or only good, but those would have been my picks for how people react
to this. So it's interesting. I don't know if people didn't like the
triple H segment more than I thought. I liked Rona Stephanie I think more
than you did, and others. So yeah, something is something is getting
at people tonight. So yeah, sums up, sums up. I I
feel like, you know, when we when we get done with the show
here, I'm gonna fire up the DVR and watch that thing again because,
uh, you know, seeing seeing the Shield back. I mean for me,
my thought that everybody else would would have would be hey, okay,
that's cool. Yeah this time, you know, we were we were fooled
and we were you know, used, the wool was pulled over, eyes,
what have you. But we still got a shield reunion and that was
pretty cool. But uh man, yeah, that's a that these email they're
pretty pretty pretty eye open interesting. Yeah, and we're not you know,
we're not. I didn't lead the parade of negativity and my report in norder
to you. So these are you know, fans thinking independently and breaking off
a little bit from from us. I had a lot of questions and some
concerns, but I didn't think it was a D or an F show.
So yeah, that's that's that's interesting. One way that you can help us
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like about the programs in the comments section. Thank you so much. All
right, Another Zach Zack in Texas says, wait, I'm so oh gosh,
I didn't know this was the opening line. His subject line was positive,
but he goes, I'm so over moneyed. I rot if it weren't
for Rona Rowsie. I'm pretty sure I'd watched SmackDown exclusively two nights in a
row. Vince gave Barclay Center hope that Brown Stroma was gonna cash in his
contract and then ripped it away. I just don't understand why would he sacrifice
the shield just to keep the belt on Roman. That crowd was so behind
Stroman that seeing Abroson rawlins was a letdown. On the positive side, Ronda
finally pulled Stephanie McMahon down to earth. Every time there was a segment involving
Stephanie and the women, she comes across as completely self grandizing, as if
all the good things that have happened for women are because of her. Well,
of course, Ronna gave her a much needed reality check, and I
will never get tired of watching Ronda put Stephanie in armbar. It will never
get old. Zack in Texas. The reason I liked the Rota segment is
is I liked that Ronda asked, the women don't stand on the grounds of
Stephanie can tower over you get up on the ring apron I like that.
I like that she You know that we had a clear definition Stephanie as a
self aggrandizing ego, out of control heel as opposed to the feel warm and
fuzzy about her because she's introducing the evolution. It's still ridiculous that they can't
figure out what her character is going to be consistently. I mean even on
RAW I mean last time she appeared. Oh you know aj styles like Stephanie,
thank you for making my daughter feel like it's worth growing up in this
world. And now we have Rodas saying, who do you think you are?
Acting like you get credit for all this, and Stephanie's over at Leah
Heil. So it does sort of feel still like it's just fantasy camp for
Stephanie to pretend to be well. This week, I want to do a
heal promo, Dad. Oh okay, Stephanie Darling, you sure can,
oh Dad. I want to be a good guy and get cheered this week.
Oh okay, Stephani you can do that. Like it feels like it's
her playthings sometimes because of the inconsistency of her character. I think she's good
at being a heel, but it's still dumbfounding that evolution was announced with her
as a completely different person in the way that it was framed, not just
by her in that moment, but everybody afterwards, including aj the next night.
So that part frustrates me. But I thought Ronda was the one who
said, yeah, I see you for what you are. I'm gonna call
you on it and and uh and I'm gonna give you an armbar. So
that and I thought Ronda was a good leader, you know, telling the
women, Hey, I'm I'm here to represent but I want to defend against
all of you. Yeah, I mean I was fifty fifty on the segment,
and I really liked RONNA's reaction with with Stephanie and on to Ronda just
in general, I think, you know, she's grown leaps and bounds,
just even on on the microphone, Like she's just got more of a presence
now and she's moving along at a pretty quick pace that I think she's really
gonna gonna help her as she you know, has more months on her belt
and she goes towards something a big at WrestleMania on her own. That said
I to me. When I was watching it, I was thinking to myself,
Okay, like I'm not sure that people necessarily want to get behind a
Ronda Rousey that's gonna you know, lift the entire division up, uh and
and and make everybody have smiles that are wrestling on the raw winmen's division.
Like my my thought is that people want to see your gift physical and they
actually do want to see her break break the arms with some people, And
if that's what she has to do to keep the Raw Women's title, then
then so be it so kind of openly mating that, hey, you know,
she's just she's only you know, she's only this fierce competitor, you
know, against the people who anger her. I was a little bit Wishywashyon
on that part of it. So the Sephany part I liked that part had
to be kind of questioning, just because I want to see Rond in that
role of just the killer on Monday night, Rog give me that belt,
line up some opponents and let's go and maybe you're all your arms will get
broke. I don't know, we'll have to find out. Yeah, there's
a meme on my Twitter feed at dull Wade Keller follow me by the way
at Dull Waight Keller and at PW torch Zack. What's your Twitter it's at
ze Heydorn at z h e y d or okod And the meme is a
picture of insick man with that look from the raws War era and the words
are here's the Shield of Reunion WWV universe. Now I dare you to boo
Roman, Now you mfforts, I double dare you. So it's almost trolling
the fans like, oh, you want to be Roman. I'm gonna put
the shield together. You want to be Roman? I and a bron come
out you want to be. It's like one thing after another, just one
trick of the trade. And Vince had just by the way, I absolutely
think WWW's missing out on a great earnings opportunity. You know, I had
said, I don't know ten twelve years ago, T and A after their
pay per views should do a press conference where online or its part of the
pay per view or whatever, where the booker sat out there. I think
it was during the Russo era where when he was booking and just the bookers
and the promoters and a couple wressers sit out there and they answer questions and
they break k fake like what was your booking strategy, Scott Damore? What
was your booking strategy of answers? So what did you envision? How did
it play out? Some O Joe is with your character tonight? You know
have invite real media to do it, you know, like actual media,
not fake stuff that everyone will see is fake. And have media show up
and ask questions of styles, go what do you think you're matched tonight?
You know that spot that didn't go well? How did you recover? I
was like, I think people would eat that up and it would put t
a nmap so now you have actually TENA doing that, I mean NXT doing
that in a way with Triple H with his you know, Facebook Live,
but even more so the media conference call answering questions for real live wrestling media
people asking questions, and Hunter's breaking k fave so to speak. He's talking
about you know, Matt Riddle pretty bluntly, and he's talking about Adam Cole
and comparing them with Shawn Michaels. And he's talking about what he wants to
see in Ricochet and how he has to make things look like they're a struggle,
not easy. If it comes easy to him, don't portray that to
the fans. Make it look like a struggle. That was great. So
now the next step. The next step is the Gorilla Camp. We need
to have access on WWB network. Subs will go up, Vince, I
promise people will subscribe to the network for this. When Raw ends, do
a split screen and replay Raw if USA will allow it, of Vince McMahon
watching of Vincent manning Gorilla position for all three hours and ten minutes of Raw
and let people watch on a split screen Raw and then Vince because I want
to see him telling the announcers what to say. I want to because Cole
was so worked up at the end there, Oh my god, it was
just like this shield, this is unbelievable. You know, Vince's backstage,
I can't even do it without a coughing fit coming up. And you're like
Michael Cole, He's just telling Cole and Coles try to keep up with Vince.
Is a grinding enthusiasm for it. I want to see the Gorilla camp
tonight. I especially wanted to see it because Vince is just rolling out the
tricks. Yeah, that would be something else and I would I would pay
you know, some harder money to see that. And I you know,
talking about that, it just it really puts kind of a icing on the
cake of a really just a interesting weekend for WWE. And like, you
know, it's so fascinating because just hearing these emails come in about tonight's segment
and last night, it's like you you just watch for some different things,
you know. I was just riveted with how they were going to get it
through last night and tonight on scathed or relatively on scathed, And I think
that's one angle to watch it from. But there's just a whole another way
to watch it and engage with it, and it's it's It was a fascinating
weekend in WWE Land, for sure. I expected it to be and it
didn't let me down. Every Sunday night, catch Wrestling Night in America on
Pwtorch Dailycast dot Com, hosted by me Pwtorch columnist Greg Parks. Each week,
I'll welcome a co host from the Torch family to discuss the big shows
in pro wrestling. Taking your calls and emails. You can listen live most
week's beginning at eight pm Eastern. On Sunday nights with a WWE or Impact
pay per view, we go on the air. At the conclusion of that
pay per view, you can listen live, but of course, the full
show is available for download on demand anytime shortly after it airs. Visit Pwtorch
Dailycast dot com and click the live stream link to find the next scheduled live
show link. Search Pwtorch and Apple Podcasts or your podcast app. Subscribe Wrestling
Night in America every Sunday, PW Torch Dailycast dot com. Hugh James on
Twitter just a few minutes ago said, what's the storyline motivation for Dean Ambros
and Seth Rawlins to reform the Shield Rains wasn't being outnumbered by heels. If
you're Seth and Dean, aren't you sick of propping this guy up as a
shoot? So? Yeah, it just it just keeps coming in, all
right? On a topic more lowercard here, do you think AOP needs a
new finisher? Just finished watching them beat Titus worldwide for the twenty fourth time
and that move just seems really weak for two guys who are supposed to be
unstoppable monsters. I really think a devastating power finisher might help them get a
little more heat, which they desperately need. And by the way, the
post summer summer on table was great. Go vi ip everybody that's John from
Johnson City, Tennessee. Yeah, AOP, I think a manager would help.
I think getting the Brothers type posh just beat people up every week and
having some great jobs come in and take wild bumps for them would be great.
And actually having a take team division on raw would have been helpful for
them too. Yeah, They're finisher to me is the least of their of
their worries at this point. I mean, they've got problems. They've got
problems in a lot of different areas, one of which is a lack of
a division on the show, or a lack of a viable division for that
matter, and then the other is they just they need some sort of mouthpiece
to tell their story. I don't think they're effective communicating on the microphone,
and they really really need someone to anchor that spot for them, or they
could be in some big trouble because I mean, the one thing they have
gone from it is their big guys. They can do some big moves and
we've seen them have good matches, but they need someone in there that can
carry the other side of that business for them, because they just to this
point have not been able to do that effectively. Yeah. Nick from Bradford,
Pennsylvania says, no, Baron Corbyn would be a horrible GM. A
GM in pro wrestling is stupid on its own. Waite, I'm still sick
of this rehabsh storytelling of a heel corporate figure in wrestling. Why can't we
have an objective character who only appears on TV for very important decisions, like
President Jack Toney. He says, go VIP. It's worth it just to
not have to hear Wade plug VIP. Thank you, Nick. I think
that backfired a little on you, but I appreciate you encouraging people go VPP.
And yes we do edit out most of the plugs, but when you
say stuff like this, it's hard to edit it out. So now it's
like a plug for vipers and it's your fault. So but thank you.
I appreciate the kind words and your support. All right, Yeah, we
didn't talk about it yet, but Kurt Angles on indefinite leave to regather himself.
I don't know, maybe he's got dental work he needs done and they
need to write him off TV or something. But Baron Corbyn snicker, who
was very happy that he gets to be in charge. So now we enter
the post summer slime era with a heel GM without anybody to offset it.
I've enjoyed Angle and Baron Corbyn playing off each other more than I've enjoyed most
authority figure storylines. But yeah, I mean the William Regal model and even
page to a degree, is so much more refreshing and batter. Let the
wrestlers be the stars and and and making an exception not the rule that the
gmaz on TV all the time. I think so too. I think so
too. And but even if you're gonna go down the rabbit hole of okay,
he'll he'll GM and you know, bad guy authority figure Baron corbyan just
I'm not sure that he's in my head. I'm not sure that he's quite
quite there yet. He's had a good back and forth with the Kurd Angle
that has been fun to watch, uh no doubt, but I still I'm
just like Constable Corbin is the is the general manager coming off of uh nck
Foley Kurt Angle and now like Baron Corban like, it's just now I'm not
sure that that adds up fully, but it begs a question of where are
they what are they building to here? I mean it is Kurt Gonna,
I mean, is it Kurt Angle versus versus Baron Gorbon Like, I'm not
quite sure where they're going with the Kurt Stephanie Corbyn. I think at this
point, my guess is they have a baby face champ and run and they
have a baby faced champ I think in Roman reigns and they have a baby
face champ in seth Rawlins. So having a healed GM kind of opposing them
and being a thorn in their side. Maybe to them makes more sense now
and they want to do some things without Kurt getting in the way to kind
of stack the odds probably more than anyone against Roman. So now you don't
have Kurt Angletoff said it. Now it's going to be Baron Corbyn on a
power trip making things miserable for for for Rains. And then that's one of
the things Vince is pulling out, you know, to to try to turn
fat, to try to basically dare fans to boot Roman. I dare you
to share Roman reigns after the way he's treating Roman. I think that's part
of the journey that we're on here. Yeah, that's a that's a that's
a good point, I think, yeah, And who knows. I mean,
Baron Corbyn can be just painstakingly annoying on the show, so he might
actually convert some people with that. You know, the other the other week
when he had that inter action with Rains and Rains just kind of just knocked
him in the in the face like that that got a pop and who knows,
maybe that could that could be something that that helps uh, that helps
Rains. It got a pop for me. Yeah, yep, all right.
Nolan for Fort Wayne, Indiana points out, I know it's like the
announced tables back at ringside on raw any reason for this seems w B made
a point of notice when they moved it up near the entrance on the stage
announced back at ringside with no mention, Just wanting your thoughts. I love
the torch and all the effort you and your staff put in. Listening has
become part of my weekly routine. And keep up the great work. Thank
you, Nolan. Yeah, I didn't even think about it, but yeah,
there they were at ringside. I think, right, yeah, but
I think you think they I mean, now that I I'm trying to think
back, I'm it didn't stand out to me, so I'm not I'm not
entirely sure, but I guess my first instinct goes, Okay, well,
they needed a table to put Stroman through potentially, so maybe that's why they
moved it down there. But I didn't notice it. Yeah, I mean
I notice some on camera, but I guess you know, both of us
type it up when the announcers are on camera. It's like, okay,
now I'm gonna you know, type and do do stuff and so but I've
I've definitely noticed in the past when they are on the stage standing in front
of it, and I don't remember seeing that tonight. So I suspect Nolan
is right, and it's just something that they just decided to do. You
know. All it takes is just Cole saying, man, you know,
when I call Summer Slam, it just reminds me how much I'd rather be
closer to the action at ringside, and and Vincent Kevin are like, all
right, just let's just move down there again. It's like we got what
we wanted out of it, you know, to try to differentiate the looks
of the brands, and now we're over it and it doesn't it doesn't matter.
So if you'd rather be there and you think it makes your announcing better,
but maybe it'll come out there there's there's more to it. Yeah,
yeah, it could. It could be. I just yeah, now I'm
gonna go back and watch it for that too, because I didn't I didn't
notice. Yeah, yeah, I don't even is there anything on the show?
I guess before I totally conclude that we didn't cover that. You think
that you got something to say about No I think we did a really good
job. I'm glad, We'm glad we tackled the round of stuff because I
thought that was that was pretty that was pretty newsworthy, but also was you
know, left in the shadows of the shield stroman craziness at the end of
the show. So I'm glad, we glad we got into that. And
uh so, no, I think we did a solid job. All right,
good, So we'll lend on that note. Thanks VIAP members for supporting
us here. I hope you enjoined an extra twenty minutes of mail. Bang.
We'll land on that note and we'll talk to you next time. Invite
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