As Paul Ask Paul. What's up? Everybody? Welcome to another episode of
Let's Ask Paul, the podcast where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything
you want about the electrical code. It could be electrical well, I guess
it doesn't have to be code, he could. You could ask me anything
you want about electrical business. I asked me anything personally you want to ask.
I don't care. You know, advice on marketing for your business.
I've been through it all. I've I've had to market businesses, some successful,
some not all those type of things. So again, all you gotta
do is go to Paul Abernathy dot com. It's a free service, doesn't
cost you anything, and you can submit your questions directly through the portal that's
over there at Paul Abernathy dot com. So, folks, thanks for listening
to the podcast again. Another month where record numbers. We have millions of
downloads. So we're just stick static at the to be honest with you,
quite shocking that the majority of our exposure is through our podcast less videos.
I don't do as many videos as I used to do. I do have
some over on our channel over on the YouTube channel, which is always master
the NC, So if you're searching on YouTube, that's what it is,
and master the NEC all one word. And of course I stream on many
other platforms. We do use restream to send out our our videos so that
they kind of get mass consumption on the different platforms. But as you all
know, I'm not a big fan of all those different platforms, so it
is what it is. So but anyway, thanks for joining me today for
this podcast. I got an interesting question, actually two questions. One is
going to be fairly quick just to answer the question, and then one I'm
gonna go into a gentleman that kind of I guess he seems that he's at
this maybe maybe he's a crossroads. Maybe he's a crossroads in life as as
an electrician and you know, kind of working as an apprentice. I can
take it from reading it that he's an apprentice and trying to make a decision
on where to go, especially in an economy like this. You know,
there's a lot of stuff that has posted online about union and making double time
one hundred and fifty some an hour and all this stuff, and he's starting
to, you know, trying to say what's best for my family, what
direction. Maybe he's an area that doesn't It appears as an area that doesn't
have a union. And again I'm not for or against unions. I've just
never was a part of one. There are some benefits obviously for everything.
But you know, it's far beyond for me to be able to have that
conversation. But but let me get to the first question at hand that was
presented to me here at Let's ask Paul. The first question really was,
can you explain how current travels through the conductor? I have heard that it
travels on the surface, and others say it travels in the core. How
does it travel? Thanks in advance, Okay, so I'm gonna keep this
early thirty thousand foot. I'm not going to talk about the protons and neutrons
and the nucleus and the free electrons and the valance shells and and all this
type of stuff that make up the atoms, and and how you apply voltage,
which is pressure to cause current flow or actually the movement of these electron
electrons and reactionary state. I'm not going to get into all that. We'll
leave that to others to to go deep into that. Certainly it would a
visual would help with that. The question really that I get and I believe
will answer your question. The question I get is people seem to think that
the electricity will keep it simple. We'll take all that stuff I just said
and make it simple. We'll compile it into this this phenomena we call electricity,
and it they think that as it's traveling through the wires, that it's
actually traveling if you want to buy into the traveling thing, that it actually
is on the perimeter of the conductor right just underneath the insulation well in building
wire and building and there's other people out there that would try to make you
believe that the current's traveling on the surface and things like that. Reality is
we're talking about sixty hurts. Hurts is a frequency and that's typical building wire
in Europe. It's fifty here, it's sixty in the good o us of
A. And when you have currents, so if you had a DC,
a purely DC system, okay, direct current, no alternating current, no
expanding and collapsing magnetic fields, no peak, whether it's positive or negative peak,
none of that, just direct DC current like from a battery. If
that's the case, the current that is created and everything associated with it,
the movement of those electrons in the product being the opper wire or aluminum wire
or whatever. All of that is traveling through one hundred percent of the conductive
medium. Means it's going through the middle, it's going through the various levels.
It's using the entire conductor. So when you think of ac current alternating
current, it does not just travel on the outer perimeter. Now, if
you're talking about high frequencies, or we're going really up in high frequencies,
kind of think about the frequencies being high frequency, it kind of from the
core out, it kind of pushes it towards the perimeter, and you can
have something called skin effect where the current's traveling on the skin of the conductor.
Essentially, you could have a hollow conductor and most of the current would
travel or most of the current would be on the outer perimeter. But in
building wire sixty hurt is it doesn't happen that way, and it travels more
or is in the conductor more and a donut, if you will, so
not really so much in the core, but out, you know, out
in the layers like a like a donut donuts. Okay, I can just
have this home or moment. So it's it's traveling. You know, I
can't keep using the term traveling, but that's how people think about it.
Flow like a flow of water. That that's just what's ingrained in people's head.
Doesn't really work like that, but that's what's ingrained. So I'll just
I'll go with that image that locks something in your head. Hell, you
could be driving down the road and I don't want you to have an accident
trying to think of something different. But so when you think of that,
the majority of our current UH is in the entire conductor, but with DC,
it's using it all the way to the core. EC it's it's it's
it's in layers from the core, but it's still using the majority of the
conductor itself to carry to handle that current. Right, And so I think
that people tend to think that, and there is this misconception out there that
we have skin effect issues with sixty hurts and you do not. The hurts
would have to be much much much higher in order to have any potential for
skin effect and things like that. So I'm not sure that answers your question.
But as you have a source of power, a supply, a generator.
It's going to generate voltage. That voltage access pressure moves those electrons,
gets them very active back and forth. And since it's alternating current, it
moves up you know, every you know, forwards and backwards, forwards and
backwards. Uh. If you think of sin your sort of wave form,
if you're familiar with that, you have a rise, then you have a
peak, then it falls to midpoint, that drops below you have a peak,
and it comes back all in one cycle. And so keeping it simple,
it's constantly changing directions. So that's why they call it alternating current.
So it's going to use the majority of the conductor. It's not going to
just be traveling on the surface. That's called that's that's like skin effect,
and that's only for higher frequencies. Now, obviously I could I'm trying to
hold back because I could go much deeper than that, and that's what our
ac DC theory course does. It's called the fast Tracks Yellow course that we
have. It goes much deeper into the number of electrons and how they flow
and the whole process and everything. But you know, it's probably unnecessary to
answer this question because it's just wanting to know the makeup of a conductors.
So don't let anybody, even in building wire, don't let anybody b as
you and tell you that the current that's trying you know, that's being you
know that this conductor can handle is based on only the perimeter's That is simply
not correct. That would be a false way of thinking. Okay, So
the good news for that is when people ask us about conductors and you're stripping
the insulation off and you nick a conductor, other than weakening the stability of
that conductor at termination or if you're flexing it or bending it or whatnot,
it's kind of hard. You should try. You should obviously try, but
it's hard to get insulation off and not put micro nicks in it. And
a micro nick is not going to affect the reliability of the conductor. Even
though you'll see stuff out there that talks about little gaps and an arcs over
it, Really the conductor uses way more than just the surface, so it
tends to be fine deep cuts. Then you can get down in the conductive
material, then that can be a problem. Create an arc that type of
thing, and you could have a problem over time. But it's really about
the mechanical stability of the termination when you nick a conductor like that. But
there is that misconception that that nick is going to cause current to not be
able to bridge it because it's a small little kind of micro scrape or whatever.
It isn't and no, that's it's not going to happen. Now.
I know people are gonna go freaking go off and say, oh no,
you can't have any nicks in the conductors, and you're not supposed to.
You're supposed to pay attention when you strip it. But I'm here to tell
you it's not nearly a catastrophe as some people would make it sound. Okay,
you just have to know that there's definitely more of that conductive material that's
going to actually handle the current. Okay, So the next question, it
really was a life life thing, I guess for this individual. It says,
Hey, Paul, I'm at a crossroads in my life. I have
a family, I'm made good money as an apprentice. Okay, yeah,
that's that's right. I couldn't remember he as an apprentice. I make good
money as an apprentice, but I know there's more for me. I can't
seem to get motivated to change my life. I can't seem to get motivated
to take my career to the next level. What's the incentive. I work
for a contractor who pays me well, respects my work, but I just
feel like I can't improve my life. What advice can you give me?
Okay, tough one there, And I've talked about this before. You know,
you probably are sitting out there listening to this podcast and you're in the
same boat. You're getting up in the morning and you're going out to work,
busting your butt and you're making your pay. And in our in our
case, luckily most cases in the electrical trade, skilled labor are doing pretty
good. I mean we're still you're still making money, you're still working the
economy. Being in and you know, in the shitter or going that direction
doesn't make things easier, but you're getting by and you're making him you're feeding
your family. Now here's my thing. That can cause people to get quite
complacent, right and being accepting the norm whatever you have and saying, Okay,
I don't deserve anymore, or I don't deserve to have more from you
know, and you do. You absolutely lutely deserve to have everything. You
know, we only go around this rock one time, and let you're a
Buddhist and then you kind of think you come back as a butterfly. But
you go around this rock one time. You have to make the most of
it. Life is short. Stop and look back in the mirror and say,
damn, ten years where were you ten years ago? I do it
all the time. I look back and I go, Jesus, where did
the time go? I remember, you know, back in school thinking that
jam I. I was lucky enough when I went to university that I did
an online school back in the day. I mean, I mean back in
the day when I got a lot of work credit as a master electrician early
young that when I went through my program, they gave me a lot of
lab credit so I didn't have to do the residency portion at any university.
I could get by with my licenses and credential. And I don't know that
you could do that today. I don't know they allow that today. You
know, and the work life experience is looked at, poo pooed on when
it comes to a degree. You know, I've heard people say this,
A college degree is really just telling your employer that you're committed to going and
doing something every day for four years or whatever it takes you and that they
can feel that you're going to be reliable. I mean, that's really all
it is, to be honest with you. I know so many people that
come out of school that are just dumb as a rock, and all you
got to do is watch some of the stuff online surveys that people do.
They know nothing, and you know, hey, you know, God bless
them. You got that piece of paper. I got the piece of paper.
I got tons of paper. The only really thing that meant the most
to me in my career as an electrician. And this is how I'm speaking
to those out there that may be listening. You're an apprentice, then you
need to be you need to strive to be a journeyman. Not necessarily because
you're going to get more pay. I mean you should, right, makes
sense, But that's not the goal. That's not what I'm We all have
to have these personal goals, personal things that you want to achieve and milestones
that you want to want to do. For example, when I was working
and I became a journeyman, it was not a year before I was striving
to be master and that was my ultimate goal, is to be a master
electrician, and in our profession, that's as high as you can go.
You can't go any higher. And if you think being an electrical engineer,
and there's some people out there to say I want to be electricman, it's
because they liked the title. They think that there's some kind of extra glory
in that. There's not. When I got my degree, I knew,
damn well, I didn't want to work in an office and work on schematics
and and CAD all day and design systems for other people to be that.
This wasn't my thing. God bless those that do that. It was not
my thing. I couldn't. I just could not do it, especially in
that time in my life. I was active, I was working with the
hands. I wanted to build it. I didn't care so much about designing
it. I wanted to build it. I wanted to work on it.
And so for me, all that other stuff was just an extension of moving
into teaching and education and all that kind of stuff. But the most the
proudest I ever was was when I got my master's license, So you know,
and it wasn't for money, it wasn't for extra this or that.
It was for me it's what I wanted. Now, you're very comfortable,
and I'm speaking to the person that wrote the letter or wrote the sent the
email, and I get it. You're comfortable. You're you're you don't want
to rock the boat because you're you're doing okay. You're you're you as you
said, you said, you're making it, You're you're you're doing all right.
But at the end of the day, you're questioning yourself, so you're
not doing okay right. And there can be all different moods and feelings of
inadequacy. There can be the feelings of depression. You know. People don't
understand today that depression is is is real, you know, and and it's
not just post traumatic stress disorder from being in an active war zone. It's
it's it's the games that the mentally can be played on you when you sit
there and think, is this it for me? Is this it is?
This? Is this all I'm aspired to be? And it's only going to
be you who decide to break that chain and say, you know what,
I'm going to better myself. I'm gonna gain more knowledge, I'm gonna take
the profession that I that I'm in and I'm gonna excel at it, right,
That's that's a that's an innate thing that's got to be in you.
I know plenty of people who will say they'll put twenty five years in being
an apprentice, or even twenty five years being a journeyman. And I'm like,
how I couldn't do that? And they're like, well, I have
no incentive. What's the point if I get the master? My boss is
not going to pay me anymore, and I'm not going to be able to
do anything more than I'm doing now. I'm already leading all these projects.
What do I need a master's for? And then that's the situation where I
have to look at them and I have to you have to sit back and
you look at me. Go think about what you're saying. You don't want
to further your knowledge, You don't want to get better just because somebody is
not going to reward you. How about rewarding yourself? How about knowing you
achieve something that that type of mentality is going to be far more beneficial to
you. To think that, you know what, I'm a journeyman, but
you know what, I'm going to strive to be a master. And then
you know what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna strive to be the best master
electrician I can. And we're not talking about just being the best conduit vender,
right, We're talking about learning all the nuances. Like, Okay,
pick a topic that is tough for you. Let's say you don't understand transformers.
Hey, you Mentally you're like, I don't get the configurations. I
don't understand delta, delta, delta, Why why a delta? I don't
get it. I don't understand how to size the overcurrent protections and conductor sizes,
secondary conductors. What are the different types of transformers? What is an
exo? What are the bonding requirements? I mean to be a specialist in
your field, and that's what a master electrician is. There's no level above
master electrician in the conventional sense of licensure. Now, this is what spawned
me to create the CMECP. And I'm not here to do a commercial Okay,
today is not a commercial day. I'm trying to be real with the
individual out there about the motivation. It's necessary to say, you know what,
I am not happy with where I am mentally, But the CMECP program
is a certified master Electrical Code professional program that basically enhances your code knowledge,
enforces what you know, and then it helps you get to the next level
of knowledge. And at least it quantifies it and it lets everybody else know,
because at the end of the day, there isn't really anything higher than
and a master electrician. And please do not think that being an electrical engineer
is higher. It is not. Most electrical engineers know nothing about the National
Electrical Code, only enough to get by. They take some electives, if
you will. And I was already lucky because when I went to schooling,
I already had code. I'd been doing code since I was fifteen years old,
taking night classes and summer classes on code from local inspectors who were holding
these apprentice classes, which typically for apprenticeship programs. But they would let me
take them as well, and I would take it. They'll take your money
and I'd sit in and get all these things. I still have the certificates
from those classes back for that forty years ago. Anyway, we have to
keep pushing, keep learning. Doesn't mean you have to know everything. Nobody
knows everything, Okay, I don't care if they tell you they know everything.
They're full of shit. Nobody knows everything. I certainly don't know everything
in that National Electrical Code. And there's people that I'll go to code panel
meetings and in different people that I know an industry that want to make you
think they know everything. They don't know everything. There's it's impossible to know
everything. They're just really good at googling, or they have a friend they
can call, or they will do research on something. I do that,
so I'm presented with questions and it may have come across that I know everything
about the National Electrical Code, but that's not true. And I slip up
all the time. You know, I might be saying something, it come
out of my mouth and I don't realize it till after it's alive. It's
public and we know we know that. Did I know better? But it's
just it's life. It happens. But your body of work over time is
what is what really really matters. So if you're an apprentice, you should
always be striving to be a journeyman. Again, every state's different in their
classifications, in their licensure and how they go, So I get it.
I get it. So this is not a you know, boiler plate for
every state but if there are levels for you to aspire to, then you
should do them. I'll give you an example. If you're in a state
that doesn't have master license but has journeyman licenses and you're thinking, what do
I aspire to because the next level is a contractor and you don't want to
be a contractor, Well, then you know what what you should be doing
is because it's all about knowledge. Is probably taking ICC courses or classes or
exams. You know, there's there's the E ones, e twos, e
threes. You know they have the residential commercial and then plans examiner and those
are just enhancements in your knowledge and it keeps you moving forward dead. It
just keeps you moving forward and gaining more knowledge. Again. You can say
that you're happy, and a lot of people will say they're happy, but
you you're not. You know, a life isn't always just about money.
We have to have something that can fulfill us as well. And knowledge is
that that thing, that involvement, that immersing yourself into something that's going to
teach you something or give you this tidbit of knowledge, it's going to enhance
you. That's uh, that's amazing. For the psyche So my advice at
the end here is I'm going to end this podcast is to the gentleman,
is that you need to keep pressing forward in in your learning. And if
there's another level to whatever state you're in, if you're you're an apprentice and
there's a journeyman, or there's a master's level, set a goal for you
to move through those and become a master. Master should be the pinnacle.
And if you become a master, you should not take that is you're done.
In fact, when you become a master, think of it as a
doctor. H and you're a specialist in your your field of electricity. That
now it's it's incumbent on you to continue to learn. Take take the stuff
in the code for example. That and for people to say they don't need
to learn code, you're you're a damn fool. You were, you were
a fool. Everything you do on the job on a day in and day
out is wrapped around code. Right, You're you're bending your race ways.
Okay, so that's manual, but you know that you can't have more than
three hundred and six degrees between pull points, right, you know have to
secure it and support it. Okay, where do you get that from you
get it from the code. Now you might do it every day, becomes
a mundane task, but ultimately everything is tied back to a code. So
one of the things I tell all the time to people is being a really
good electrician is expanding the knowledge, the physical part. I tell people all
the time. I can. I can teach a monkey to pull wire,
all right, really you can, right, you just reward them and tell
them to pull you know, probably teach them how to bend condo it as
well. Okay, Benfield, bender's pretty easy. I think it's pretty simple
to do. Three points, four points, saddles, offsets, kicks,
those types of pretty pretty simple, right not. Not brain surgery by any
means doesn't make anybody a spectacular electrician because they can bend a little conduit.
I'm sorry that offends people on you know, it is what it is.
You do anything repetitiously. What that tells me When people post pictures of all
their conduit runs and all this fancy conduit I know they're proud of it,
but you know what I see when I see all that, I see somebody
who's been doing the same damn thing for years and in order to get some
type of mental satisfaction. They have to post a picture. That's what I
see, and so I start to think about, well, you know,
it might benefit you to think outside of just what you do every single day
of your life. Right, So that's just that's just my mentality of it.
And people can agree to disagree and that's okay. That is perfectly fine.
All right, Well it's it, folks, keep pushing forward. I
appreciate all of you. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Again, you've
made a success. This is a kind of a weirder error podcast for me,
but I'm glad you listened. Hopefully you listen to the end. And
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till next time, Stay safe, God bless and uh again. Top out,
keep learning, never stop learning, max out your trade. Become a
master or whatever the highest level is. And if you're a master, become
a CMMECP. It's the ability to keep enhancing your knowledge. Take care of
folks as no no ask, no f