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by customer availability and eligibility may vary. Has the Bengals offensive line been as
bad as social media says? Plus the latest on the Bengals youngsters, who
could step up? Who will step up over the final seven weeks of the
season, and thoughts on Jake Browning Bengals. Sands is here to break it
all down for a weekly film review. You are Locked On Bengals, your
daily Cincinnati Bengals podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, Your Team every
Day. Hi again everyone, and welcome in to the Lockdown Bengals Podcast.
I'm James Rupine, No Jake, Let's go today, but we have Bengals
Sands. Mike Santaggata is here. Follow him on Twitter at Bengals Underscore Sands
and today's show is brought to you by game Time. Download the game Time
app, creating an account and use co lockdown NFL for twenty dollars off your
first purchase last minute tickets, lowest price guaranteed Sands. Let's dive into the
post Joe Burrow Bengals, and let's start with the offensive line. There's a
lot of narratives out there, true, I think some not true. I
don't think they're the most athletic unit in the world. I also think that
just blaming a position coach for Joe Burrow's injury is a bit much too,
and I've seen that on social media. But I don't want to ask you
about the social narrative. I want to ask you about the film. What
have you seen from this offensive line during the first ten games of the season.
Has it been good? Has it been bad? A to f as
a position unit, how would you rate them? And then after that give
it some context that only you can do after watching all the film you have.
Yeah, I mean it's like a CC somewhere around there like they're fine.
I think that's one of those things of when you play against really good
defenses, they'll get got and sometimes the guys just don't bring. You know,
performance week to week for each individual isn't always consistent either. I think
each one of them have probably had a game that they're like that, that's
a bad game, the game you'd like to forget. But at the same
time, I thought they had a really difficult task early in the year with
an immobile quarterback and unable to run the ball, so they kind of stop
running the ball. So they're throwing a lot with a guy that's just sitting
duck back there. That's really difficult. Offensive linemen typically like going forward and
run blocking more than they like going backwards in past setting when I played in
high school, but you know, I like going backwards. I was more
one of those guys where I was like, I actually gotta like past setting
more. But a lot of guys, you know, they were bigger than
me and able to impose their will one hundred and eighty pound left guard like
trying to move guys. You know. Anyway, Yeah, they're fine.
I think they've been fine overall. It's like I've really got ran over I
knew leverage, but uh yeah, so they've been fine. Overall. I
think that when a guy gets hurt, the quarterback gets hurt on a play,
there's kind of this emotional reaction to it. If like they're not doing
enough. It's really I don't know, like they don't have a run game,
so the defense could tee off a lot. They don't commit to a
run game. So that also leads into these pass rushers are pinning their years
back and when that's partially on them too, because they're not doing enough in
the run game either. But that's also a tight end. They don't they
have one tight end that can block and Drew Sample and then but we know
what he is as a receiver, so they don't play them all the time.
They wide receivers. They're not paid the block there. They don't have
a Alan Lazard who does get paid to block in that group to go take
guys out. Stanley Morgan not active very often, just one game. But
yeah, overall, I think my thoughts are it's like a C unit unit
at least two two games for stand. I get your point. I get
your point. Don't sell him short now, don't sell him. Sure,
I agree with you. I think that they leave a decent amount to be
desired at times, especially with the way the Bengals play. And I think
that's the other element to this of where people's frustrations are is dropping back with
Burrow or running shotgun and just throwing as much as they have. But you've
seen the run game, like, could the coaching, should the coaching be
different, whether it's Frank Pollock, whether it's play calling, whether it's scheme
to fit this line. And I know that's a really really loaded question,
but I think that's where people are right now. And I want to try
to to answer that with you, because you've watched every play over and over
and over again. I think that they tried to do some of what they
did last year that worked, and some of it, you know, it's
still working. For all these guys are basically wide zone guys at heart,
though, so at least early to maybe even the middle of the year,
they would still try to get out there and run wide zone. And it's
just like they don't have the athletes for this. The offensive line does not
have the athletes for when they put that pistol stuff in. I was banging
my head against the wall, like why are you running wide zone of the
pistol, Like I forgot this is what you're gonna do when you get into
this formation, I guess. And they tried it from the shotgun and that's
just that's hard on everybody. The running back too, like that becomes difficult
in the running back to make the cut. But when they're running downhill gap
stuff, it's there. Like I don't think it's a dominant unit, but
last year wasn't a dominant unit. All that did last year was kind of
keep them on schedule and take some shots off Burrow. They didn't get that
level of performance, which is a little bit weird. I feel like some
people have been disappointed in Orlando Brown as a pass protector, and there was
some stuff in there with the injury, but overall, I thought he's been
all right there. Actually it's like he hasn't moved guys as much as I
thought, you know, like for such a big guy, and when you
watch the Chiefs game, he was able to move guys in the run game,
he didn't. He hasn't done it as much this season now, kind
of like when they get him on the move, there's just some plays that
are underutilized. The run game too. That dart play, they've run it
like four times. I think they're averaging ten yards of carry. I mean,
it's just every time they run that play, it's a good run and
draw. For a team that passes the ball seventy percent of the time,
how are you not faking the pass to hand the ball off. It's kind
of like the idea of like, well, a team that runs the ball
lot, they're gonna run a lot of play action. Well, if you
passed the ball a lot, let's fake the pass a little bit and run
some draws in there. So there's a little bit of stuff in there that's
kind of like, yeah, it could be even better, I think if
they did this stuff. But it's not. You know, like the running
back is also not giving you one hundred percent of every and sometimes even like
when you watch other teams, sometimes you can get the running back, it's
like, oh, there wasn't anything there. Watch the Jalen Warren runs from
yesterday, it's like the run is not always there, but the seventy five
or touchdown, he makes a few guys miss and he has home run speed
to get to take it the whole way, makes you forget about three yard
games, two yard games, like oh yeah, like he averaged seven yards
of carry or something, and it's like, well, seventy yard so that
came out. Who cares? Like it was a touchdown? You know,
don't take it away. Now. Sometimes people talk about taking things away,
like, oh, but if you take out his twenty yard games, like
that's a little easier to be like, yeah, I guess take that out.
It was a very good day and that run didn't even do anything for
them, So I think there's a lot wrong with the run game. But
they were able to get a little bit out of it. I think they
could get more. It's kind of like they got a small chicken wing and
they didn't eat all of the meat off the bone, but they got they
got, They got a bit off of there, like they it wasn't a
full my language, now, all right, let me get ten spicy garlic,
ten hot, and ten No. I am hungry, though, but
I'm also hungry for some explosive runs. I certainly think with Joe Burrow out
for the season, they may have to lean on that running game more.
Could that mean leaning on a rookie more than we've seen. I want to
ask you about some of the young players talk about how the run game can
evolve. We will do that coming up next right here on Lockdown Bengals.
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on Instagram or Facebook SAMs. You mentioned the run game, and I think
that that's the big question moving forward. How can it evolve? Obviously we
know Jake Browning's in a quarterback. Could they go under cent or more?
Will we see more of Chase brown He was cleared to practice on Monday and
hopefully he's going to be activated this week and able to play. We'll see
if that part happens. But how do you think the run game can change?
Should change realistically, because you can't make huge, huge changes now,
but I'm sure that they can make some tweaks to make life easier on Jake
Browning, make life easier on Joe Mixon, maybe Chase brown and maximize what
they have in this offensive line as well. Yeah, so my first thought,
and we'll see what they do. I do think they're gonna get under
center, and they're probably going to try a little wide zone, and I
don't think they have the guys up front for that. It's not going to
be perfect, but it's just what I am conditioned to think when but it's
also what helps your quarterback, So maybe maybe it works a little bit.
Maybe maybe it just not works as in like five yards of carry, they're
mowing defenses, But maybe they get teams to bite a little bit on it,
because what you can get off of that might help them out. You
know, when those boot plays, although it feels like it almost feels like
they're moving their perimeter run to being that toss play, and every boot they've
had lately is a fake off of toss, and they're running more toss than
usual, and it's worked I think better than wide Zone. Like people get
mad about it when it fails. But at the same time, the first
run of the game that was an explosive play toss. Second run that went
for like negative three also toss. That's just toss. That's you know,
that's such a boom bust play. You know, you're not usually grinding out
three yards of carry like every single carry on toss. You can do that
on wide Zone, you can do it on a lot of runs, but
toss plays, it's usually did it work? Did it not work? But
yeah, So the crack toss idea, maybe they're going to toss more toss,
more of those in there. Maybe they'll continue their downhill run. I
think they just need to find a way to help Browning out because I think
there's a lot of difficulty to playing quarterback in the Bengals offense. I talked
about how already it's a little difficult on the offensive line too, with how
they like to play. It's a higher wire act. There's a lot of
difficulty at different positions. You know, even wide receiver. They didn't run
a lot of isolation stuff. Well that requires a wide receiver to be good.
Happens. They have good wide receivers, but it's just everybody, I
feel like, except maybe the tight end has like a difficult role in the
offense. Maybe running back too, although then you can talk about pass protection
and as ugually not something a running back is good at. So there's a
lot of difficulty in how they like to play with burrow and I think with
Browning you're going to have to lessen that difficulty. They curve and this might
be the best way they can play offense is the way they play burrow ball.
But Browning can't really do that. That requires a lot of processes in
prestat processing, post snap, making very accurate throws, those back shoulder balls
that some people I think, oh he's just throwing fifty to fifty balls to
the whoever, to T Higgins, It's like, well, that ball has
to be perfect, and we saw when Burrow was not healthy what happens when
you don't throw those balls perfect. A lot of incompletions, an interception that
he left inside. You know, like there's a degree of difficulty to those
throws, which some people might think are easy. There's I just feel like,
playing quarterback in this offense, if they're going to try to just just
run what Burrow runs, it's gonna be like, Okay, this is really
difficult for a backup quarterback, and especially one that you didn't really prioritize getting
some high end backup to run this. You got to find a way to
at least minorly shift the offense to make it easier on him. Let's assume
Chase Brown can be in the mix. And I know we haven't seen a
ton of him. You watched him in the preseason, I'm in training camp
in the preseason. We've seen him a little bit. In the regular season.
He's missed the past four games. Do you think he can give them
some juice? Like, do you think as a runner he's shown you anything
or is that TBD? Because that's what the coaching staff seems to think.
But we haven't seen a lot of him. What does the film say.
I feel like the game's moving fast for him, but how does that get
fixed? Reps experience, game slows down when you play more, But it
felt like it was moving fast for him in the little bit of time he
had, at least in regular season games. For sure. I think that
last preseason game you saw a little bit. But then again, that last
preseason game was mostly against guys that aren't as fast as the starters, or
you know, guys that don't process as fast as the starters. At least
they're not in the league anymore, most of them. Yeah, yeah,
even the superstars aren't playing on the preseason Week four, week three superstars aren't
playing on Sunday right now. Yeah, So I feel like he needs more
reps. When I watched him in college, I thought he lacked the ability.
Who really, I feel like it's not something you'll like, stay on
his feet. I don't think he stays on his feet through contact super well,
He's not like a guy that gives a lot of power behind his pads
and the elusiveness was hit and miss, you know, like I feel like
sometimes it was there, but a lot of times. What I really like
with him, I think he had good vision at the calls level, which
is why I think he will probably be able to develop at the NFL level.
And I think he could set up his runs, he tempoed them,
and when he got a runway, he was gone. And that's something they
haven't had. But can they give him that runway? Because that's the biggest
issue of even when the Bengals offensive line blocks well on a play that requires
the tight end to make a good block, if you're gonna get a full
runway, like there's no need for you, you're not getting touched. I
think of like sometimes on those Devon h Chan runs for the Dolphins, like
he didn't get touched and now he's gone, Like can you give him that?
I'm not sure? You know, Like some of that comes from guys
wide receivers being able to block at better than they have because that's an issue
too, you know, like why series get asked, hey, dig out
that safety. Well that's hard, you know, it's not every wide receiver
can make that block. And I saw Trent Irwin against the Bills get lit
up trying to do that. It's just like safety knew it was coming and
he just blew him up. It's like, well, you know he's a
wide receiver. What do you really expect? So I think that you need
the auxiliary blockers, the tight ends, the wide receivers. If you put
Drew Sample in the backfield, want to call them a full back, h
back whatever, they need to be able to block well. And if the
offensive line blocks well, so like, if everything goes right, he can
get you explosive place and he could hit home runs like seventy five yard touchdowns.
If everything doesn't go right, I feel like he'll give you. When
in college, I felt like he still gave them most of what the offensive
line blocked, Like he'd run it right and he'd hit the right hole.
He'd hit it with as much speed as he could. It just didn't feel
like he was a guy. Like when I watched Charboney, for example,
it was like, well, charbon is gonna at least run that guy over,
find some hidden yards, like get an extra six yards on this play.
And he had really good contact balances. I love It's like he stays
on his feet like guy hit somebody stays on his feet. I didn't see
that so much with Brown. So that's what I'm kind of seeing as a
guy that can give you what the offensive line can give you, and then
if he if you get a runway, he'll beat guys in foot races to
the end zone. Be interesting to see if he can suit up this week.
Obviously, we'll have the latest on Chase Brown as the week rolls on.
What about Jordan Battle, because he's clearly going to be starting for the
Bengals moving forward. Zach Taylor didn't come out and say that exact statement,
but said that he was going to keep the same playing time he had last
week, and obviously he was playing well, I thought against the Ravens.
What did you think about his performance? What does he bring to this secondary?
And do you like the combo now of a second year guy in Dax
Hill, a first year guy in Jordan Battle manning in the secondary of these
two safety spots. Yeah, I mean I do like it. I mean,
actually, now that Browning's in there, if you're gonna be honest with
like yourself as a team, it's like, what does Nick Scott give you
for the rest of this year versus what is Jordan Batt'll give you. Even
if and I don't think this is true, but if the coaching staff things
like well they trust Scott Moore or something, It's like, well, yeah,
but this is probably the time. But just see what the young guy
has and the drop off, if any, will be minimal. I think
you might get better play because it just feels like just has not clicked for
Nick Scott in this defense. But with Jordan Battle, it felt like he
did a great job of for the most part, taking angles and trying to
limit plays from when they got past the defensive line, when they got past
the linebackers, he was sort of clean it up. And I felt like
he also he reacted quickly to balls being thrown, he reacted quickly to Lamar
trying to run. It just felt like he did kind of what the safety
job is there for of He was the safety net. He was the guy
that when it didn't work at the first and second level, he was there
to clean it up. I also felt like there were a few plays that
well, there was one play in particular that just talked about taking good angles.
He did blitz on a play and took a bad angle and he actually
slaps his hands together at the end of it because he missed the tackle because
of it. And it's just like one of those like, yeah, you'll
learn from that. It's something that comes with experience. And my only question
though is I don't feel like he really got challenged in coverage. So when
the ball's in the air, how does it go? When he has to
cover match a receiver deep down the field, is he able to keep up
with them? And even more so, like can he cover up corners getting
beat even you know, because that's the role of safety as well. I
can think of a lot of players, especially went back when Jesse Bates was
in Cincinnati where corner got beat, but Bates broke up the ball so it
didn't matter. So let's see. Can I want to see him tested a
little bit more in coverage. So I don't think that really happened in the
Ravens game. They went after different guys, They didn't really go after him
as much when he came in, and uh, I mean, really that's
about it's about it. There weren't too many situations where he had to take
on blocks either, So maybe you want to see him take on some wide
receiver blocks, which I don't think that Nick Scott did particularly well with this
year. Hopefully he's not taken on offensive lineman although it has happened before.
But can he take on the wide receiver block? Can he take on tight
end blocks, especially guys well they play? I mean, I don't think
Friarmuth is some ground glovel blocker. Can he take on a fat firearmouth block
there, Darnel Washington one. I don't know if I want to see that,
but you know, yeah, let's see can you take that ons that
try to block you? Yeah? I think that's a good point, and
we'll see if he can do that. And let's keep things wrong with more
on the youngsters and a thought or two about Jake Brown and coming up next.
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by state. All right, quickly, before we get to Jake Browning,
just sticking with the defense, Miles Murphy, Joseph Osai, did those guys,
what did they show you against Baltimore and what is your expectations for these
guys? Moving forward with the hope that maybe Sam Hubbard could return this week,
but regardless those two guys. What'd you see? Murphy had a pressure
against Morgan Moses and it involved him ending it with a rip move. So
that's something that's a little development. You know, like he hasn't done a
great job of disengaging at the end of his rushers, you know, her
bulrush guys. He'll move guys, and you know, like there's some stuff
there that still needs to be done better. But you know, overall he's
been able to do that, but he hasn't been able to finish and get
that offensive linement off of him. So that was good to see. And
I think the biggest thing with Murphy was he did a really good job containing
Lamar when he tried to escape. It just felt like a case of his
athleticism, his ability to accelerate his top end speed of just like when Lamar
tries to escape, that's really difficult on defensive ends. Like in theory,
hey that's your job. Well, no, this guy like the quarterback spy
argument of like I'll just put a spy on Lamar. That's great on a
chalkboard, he's accounted for. Okay, Lamar in the open field against a
linebacker, I immediately no longer have faith that this guy's going to make a
play at least consistently. So seeing Murphy be able to contain him that was
nice, especially when he's able to beat somebody to get outside and then it's
him and Murphy on a foot race. Takes a good angle, shows good
speed, gets to him, makes him throw the ball away. The other
end of that was your josepho Sie question. I thought he also played well
though this was probably the size best game. He had a move where he
kind of faked a cross chop into a hump move and I thought it was
great. It reminded me of fifty eight and fifty eight being Karl Lawson because
I felt like he did that move a lot. So can Joseph Osai improving
and keep showing a little bit of stuff like that, And he hasn't done
it this year, So this was the first game that was I think his
best pass rush on the year. I don't know if he has a sack
or anything so far the season, but when I watched that, yeah,
I didn't think so, but I want to make sure I watched that.
I was like, that's that's what I was kind of expecting him to do.
This season was come with some moves like that, a little bit of
Carl Loss into him. Get some pressure, you know, beat the guy
in front of you, and they have a better interior than back when they
had lost and I know loss and there was a whole He got a lot
of pressure, but he couldn't finish it. Some of that's also, you
know, the interior he played with was not world beaters. I mean there
was Geno, I guess for a couple of years, but when Gino was
no longer there now I feel like they have guys that could push the pocket
a little bit on the inside. So maybe those turned into sacks. But
overall, I thought he showed more in this game than he had in any
other game this season in terms of both sides. And then Jake Browning,
because I don't really know what to expect. I think there's part of the
fan base that's already looking at aj mccaeron. I think the coaches are in
on Jake Browning. He's confident. The guys around him say they're confident.
I don't know. But he's confident in himself, which I think is huge
and important. What do you kind of expect from him moving forward and expect
this offense. You already said it's not going to look the same. But
what does an ideal Jake Browning offense look like? Because I summed it up
on our Tuesday show with Jake and I was like, make plays when they're
there, don't turn the ball over. That's it. Like, if he
does those two things, I check it off for Jake Browning. And I'm
looking for the rest of the team, the defense, the running game,
the offensive line, the receivers to make places like I'm looking for all those
different units and I'm left some out but them to step up. Where are
you at with you brown And because you've watched the All twenty two, you've
watched the film of preseason, obviously you watched Thursday Night as well, and
what he did without many practice reps, where are you at? On him?
I thought there was a little bit of anticipation in processing that he played
with that I didn't really see in the preseason in terms of he didn't need
to see the guy open to throw it. You know, he had trust
some of that's you know, the anticipation throw was to Jamar Chase though,
So it's kind of like, well, is that anticipation or is that like,
oh yeah, Jamar's gonna beat that guy, Like, let me just
put it up there. But you know, it's still nice to see that
he's confident enough to throw it and it's not open, and I think it
was anticipation. But you can make the areeam either way. I think the
ideal Jake Browning would be he's running the offense. Okay, his balls are
I think he throws a very catchable go ball, which I don't think he
has a great arm. Actually, I think it's the opposite. He has
a pretty poor arm for the NFL, but his goball kind of it feels
like it kind of like floats through the air. He kind of puts a
lot of loft on it, and that also makes it kind of playable for
the defensive back. But I think there's what I was watching him throw those
is like, you know, maybe it's a little too far outside for that
Jamar Chase one. But it wasn't like he couldn't catch it. It was
it was catchable, so enough accuracy, able to keep the offense on schedule
ish at least, you know, like able to run an offense a little
bit. What I think of is almost like the idealized Jake Browning is a
little bit like Taylor Heineke, where there's also that that wild card. And
he showed this a little bit in that Ravens game too, of Okay,
stuff's not there. You trust your legs and your ability to run and scramble
a lot. So if that's working, great, and it worked a little
bit that Ravens game. You think of the fourth down scramble, you can
think of the play he jumped over a guy and ran, So he can
kind of do that a little bit. Now, there's a fine line between
kind of harnessing that chaotic energy and being able to use it for good and
those immediately turning into turnovers and negative plays and ruining the offense. So he
needs to walk a fine line there, but I think he can add a
little bit there, kind of like Tayo Ronicky when he's having a good game,
you're like, wow, did you see that running? It was like
a crazy run, like I think of that Bucks playoff games from years ago,
and then you also think of the Falcons. It's like you see how
he ran into defenders and through picks. It's like, okay, don't do
that part do the other part, the part where you're running away from guys
and making some plays when they're not there. So I want to see him
able to run the offense a little bit, yes, protect the ball,
and for him, I think the idealized version of him is able to make
something out of nothing every once in a while. Jake, heinicky, that's
what you just called him, Jake kinikey. All right, hey, I'll
take it. Bengals Underscore Sands, follow him on Twitter, make sure you
check out his work all Bengals dot com. It's always game day and Cincinnati
O. I know we we lean on you a lot, Sands. I
will be bothering you again next week as Jake's travels continue, but I appreciate
you coming on. Make sure you check out his work, like I said,
and for us, well, it's about that time to cross over with
Chris Carter. We'll do that on our next show, and then it's game
preview time. The beat. The beat goes on, The show goes on
even without Joe Burrow, and we have you covered here on Lockdown Bengals.
So for Jake, let's go. I'm James Orpene. Thank you so much
for listening to The Lockdown Bengals podcast