This is Pod Populi Podcast for the People, The Great Love Debate. It's
the Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.
Hi again, Everyone's Brian Howie. Welcome to The Great Love Debate,
the world's number one dating and relationship podcast since two thousand and fifteen. I
am here all by myself in the fine studios of pod Populi Podcast for the
People. I'm at the one in Boca Riton, Florida. Nobody's here.
I got to run the controls, so if you have any issues with the
sound, take it up with them anyway. As you guys know, um,
we like to say we don't give you advice around here, and you
could argue, probably correctly, that we give you a little bit of informed
guidance. But mostly what we give you is opinion and sometimes usually hopefully you
agree with that opinion, but sometimes you don't. And this show is called
the Great Love Debate, and that is why it is called a debate.
So you don't have to agree with each other, and you definitely don't have
to agree with me. But today I'm going to get into something that I
am absolutely positive I am right about, and something that many of you,
possibly even most of you, will think I'm absolutely wrong about So do with
this information whatever you like. Enjoy it, discard it, think about it,
object to it, have at it. Okay, So it's gonna be
a weird little prelude here, but bear with me. So my father died
a couple of weeks before I record this, and I say father instead of
Dad because Dad seems way too close and casual. And we had a relationship
that was at best complicated and at worst nonexistent, which were the better part
of the last I don't know decade or so, that's what it was.
Non existent, But I don't want to bring that up to talk about him
or us. I bring that up because a whole lot of the complicated Howie
family tree and history is rooted in religion and how that played into relationships and
family ties and history and identity, and it really shouldn't. But I'm getting
into this today, and bear with me. This isn't going to be all
about me and my family and blah blah blah, but it's going to make
a point about all of us and what we are looking for and why and
what tends to get in the way way too often and anything that touches on
this topic, and every time I bring it up, it's always the third
rail around here. But I do want to take a deep dive into it
because it comes up all the time. It came up at our live show
that we did last week, it comes up at most shows. It comes
up in emails, in general conversations that I have. It is hangs over
way too much of love dating relationships, So dating people of similar face or
religions, and wanting to find someone quote unquote raised with the same values,
brought up with the same beliefs. Blah blah blah. That's a thing that
I hear all the time. So let me get into why it mattered for
me and shape my family and how I think it can relate and hopefully influence
you. So before I begin little caveat to all this, I am hugely
envious. Big part of me is a little jealous of those that are devout
in their convictions and their faith, whichever branch or sect or denomination that is,
living your life by a strict set of beliefs that are unwavering for you.
I do see value in that, and I do see the comfort in
that and having that to fall back on. I think it really helps in
times of trouble or tragedy. And I don't want to question anybody who does
that or who wants that as a foundation for grounding themselves and basically do whatever
you need to do to get through the or through this lifetime. All good,
okay, not criticizing that. My issue is when you try to match
that system your personal system, and that's what I look at it as,
or impart that on another, or use that as a driving force for your
partnership choices or the way you actually partner verb present tense. So let's go
back to the aforementioned Howie family as a point of context. So Bob Geldoff,
who most of you know as the creator of Live Aid back in the
day, maybe some of you don't. He's a driving force between band aid.
Do they know it's Christmas tonight? Thank God it's them instead of you.
What a weird odd line to invoke way to invoke God? You know,
that's a different matter, but that's not a good thing anyway. Before
all that, Bob Geldoff was known as the lead singer of the Boomtown Rats.
Tell me why I don't like Mondays? Their big song and he was
once asked about his religion, and he answered, I am a quarter Catholic,
a quarter Protestant, a quarter Jewish, and a quarter nothing and the
nothing one, and that is essentially me. Although Geldoff I think proclaimed himself
to be an atheist, which I would never be so bold to have the
balls to do. I think that almost takes more conviction than anything else.
No, I am an agnostic, which I think if we want to be
honest, we all are, or should be, because we really don't know.
My basic feeling is that whatever your religion is, you hope and maybe
pray that it's mostly right, and you lead your life according to those nebulous
principles. But you really don't know who am I or any of you to
say that my religion is right and the other three thousand or so recognize religions
are wrong. That seems incredibly self centered, bordering on delusional, and so
many of you think that, and how that leads itself into dating and partnership
and all of it. But I'll get back to that in a moment.
So I was raised Catholic, went to church, I was an altar boy.
I went to Catholic elementary school. I moved to Paris for a couple
of years. I even went to a Catholic school over there. I went
to a Catholic college because Catholic was the way my aforementioned now late father was,
and the father generally sets religious rules in a house because I don't know,
Hey, that's life, and because most people only know one way to
live, the way they were raised, they typically go along with that.
So that's the quarter Catholic part of me. My mother, on the other
hand, she was raised Episcopalian, a Protestant, and rather than protest like
a good Protestant, upon becoming engaged to my father, she had to convert
to Catholicism. She's married, big church, had the high, old fashioned
Latin Mass, the whole deal. So she chose my father's religion over her
parents' religion, the one she was raised on. And you could say Episcopalian,
a sort of Catholic light and the same thing. But for whatever reason,
it meant a whole lot to my father that she was exactly the same
as him. So that's the quarter of Protestant in me. But that's where
it gets slippery. So my mother was not only pressured and forced by my
father to convert and grow through that whole bizarre pre marriage Catholic testing and qualifying
that they do. She was also pressured by my paternal grandmother, who insisted
that she convert because she did not want her son to marry a non Catholic.
Well why would she care? I always wonder what's the difference Catholic Episcopal.
They're mostly similarly aligned in terms of traditions and rituals and holidays and all
the rest. So who cared so much that she was exactly the same,
Especially from my grandmother, my father's mother, who spent almost her entire adult
life living in either Jackson, Mississippi, Baton Rouge, Louisiana, or Hot
Springs Village, Arkansas, which are not exactly Catholic Hot Spit HotBits. And
beyond that, she spent an awful lot of time talking about and I quote
the Jews. Now, I would spend a whole lot of time in Jackson,
Mississippi or anywhere in Arkansas, though the always Arcs are supposedly very lovely.
So why would my grandmother for her entire life be so focused on Jewish
people when you would have a really hard time encountering one there. Well,
fast forward a bit so my cousin also found that a little bit odd.
He did some snooping around, and it turns out that my Catholic insisting grandmother
was in fact one of the Linsers from Long Island, which is a fine
Jewish family. She was raised Jewish, is was Jewish. There's my quarter
Jewish, yet was so insistent upon my mother converting to Catholicism, which she
apparently did after apparently being knocked up by my Lebanese probably Muslim grandfather, being
kicked out of her family and ran away, leading to a lifetime of very
verbal resentment against Jewish people, without explaining and confessing as to why. So.
She came from a family who used religion against her, taught my father
the same who imparted that on my mother and everyone, it turns out,
was living some sort of parochial, dishonest existence to please one or more people
besides themselves. Hence the quarter nothing, which I have gladly embraced. So
had of all this sortid history of my family and religion and dishonesty relate to
you and someone just looking for a boyfriend or a girlfriend. Ah, fine,
he's getting around to it, I shall explain, and we will get
into it right after this. So why do I bring up all that the
weird subjects he's diving into. It's because using religion as a fundamental starting point
or requirement for what you are looking for is rooted in all sorts of misguided
notions and maybe doesn't have to be as dishonest and hidden as the how We
Clan, but it means you want somebody to be and believe exactly the same
as you, which is an absolutely impossible undertaking when you consider that one's spiritual
and faith journey is an ongoing, evolving, circuitous thing. And on the
Great Love Debate Tour, we do stops in places like Atlanta and Dallas and
Nashville and all over the Bible Belt, and many of the Christians are saying
they need somebody quote unquote equally yoked in their walk with the Lord. And
I'm always saying, what does that even mean? You mean today you're exactly
the same tomorrow, always forever that they believe they're going to be in the
exact same place as you, when you don't even know what place you're in
tomorrow. What if you lose faith? What if they do. What if
life brings change or revelation, then the deal's off. Can't love them anymore?
That makes no sense to me. And what if you're a little more
again quote unquote on fire? And I can't tell you how many people try
to use their faith or hide behind it to shade all kinds of issues and
demons. Oh they're a believers, so they must be good. Now,
I wouldn't bet on that. I must equally match my faith with somebody else's
talk about trying to hit two bulls eyes. Or they go to church every
Sunday, so there must be rooted in a proper way of life. I'm
like, wait, what, I went to church every Sunday, and trust
me, we were there for absolutely the wrong reasons. I think my mother
went a lot because you wanted to show off her for coat in June.
So trying to gauge somebody's journey and walk and path and trying to assess how
that fits into their character and morals and honesty, I mean caveat emptor to
use some old school Latin faith and beliefs and spirituality in your relationship with God
capital G or lowercase G or however you want is deeply, deeply personal and
really nobody's business, and certainly not something that indicates is this someone I can
love and who will love me back. It honestly has no more bearing on
the outcome of two people than if one eats green beans and one like spinach.
And people freak out when I say that, but sorry, it's true.
People use and hide behind religion for all kinds of reasons. The louder
you scream about it, post it on social media, use it on dating
sites, say it's the most important thing to you, the less I trust
it. Honestly, keep it to yourself. Be proud, but don't be
postalytizing when it comes to matters of love. And it's not just the Christians,
trust me. I hear from all face, I must have someone with
the same value system, And I'm like, what does that even mean?
Ninety nine percent of all people I think have exactly the same values. You
know it's good, you know it's bad, you know it's right, you
know it's wrong. And nine percent of those values have almost nothing to do
with how they spend their Friday nights or Saturdays or Sundays or whatever your day
of worship is, or don't go to Chick fil a. You know,
people think that because they spend an hour or two each week in a temple
or at a church, that means that they are somehow spiritually linked to the
same people. Who does it do that? No, it doesn't, It
doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean any more than if you were both I
don't know Seattle Seahawk fans and you spent three hours every Sunday dressed in hideous
teal. Does not matter. You can respect each other's traditions without matching them.
You can honor each other's rituals and sacraments and sacrifices and superstitions without adopting
them. And you can absolutely tolerate somebody spending fifteen minutes or fifteen hours each
week on their own journey while you explore yours. You eat lobster, they
abstain you. Like pork, they can't eat it. That has about as
much of a factor as a vegan dating a meat freak. I mean,
it takes communication and compromise does but why do you need somebody who does it
exactly like you, who cares and worst of all, they might change,
maybe even best of all, they might change, And of all the things
that might change in a marriage or a relationship. Trust me, stopping going
to church is about the least signal if you get one, and it happens
all the time. Life changes everyone, sometimes in a good way, hopefully
in a constant way. And why when I bring all this up, people
counter with, but I wanted our kids to be raised the same way we
both were. Why how does that help them? Makes it hair easier for
you? I don't think so. It would be if you had two different
religions. It would be like growing up in a multilingual house, which is
awesome. I don't know how it would have negatively impact a child to be
exposed to two cultures, two sets of holidays, two sets of interpretations of
essentially the same text, which it is. How would that negatively impact your
relationship? I think it Wouldn't it be wonderful grounds for conversation and exploring and
communication and curiosity and compromise. Wouldn't it be amazing to learn from your partner
and discover new perspectives on I don't know everything. We've done several Jewish Great
Love debates done. I'm in New York done, I'm in Los Angeles,
which I have not been allowed to even host those because me being a quarter
Jewish is not considered Jewish enough, even though I think a quarter Jewish is
kind of like being a little bit pregnant. They don't count it. Then
I'll let me host it. But anyway, we do these shows, and
there are all these Jewish singles, and most of them know each other or
grew up together or attended each other as a bar mitzvah about mitzvah. And
now they're like, well, I've had my fun. Now I have to
settle down with one of these people, because that was so my family wants.
And I'm standing in the corner because I'm not allowed to host, and
I'm like, what, this doesn't seem fun or sexy or loving. It
seems perfunctory. It seems like just another ritual in a long line and a
lifetime of them, which is about the least romantic thing in the world.
And I've personally dated all kinds, as I've been around all kinds, and
I've been dating a long time. And the only reason people really want to
know what religion somebody is to assess how it affects them, which is extremely
self indulgent and in no way relevant. Oh, you observe the Sabbath,
great, let's go out Saturday night instead. You'll be fine. Look at
it that way, you'll be fine. Oh you observe lent and you gave
up die pepsi for forty days. That sounds good. I'll give up mountain
dew so I will support you in your deprivation ritual. Isn't that a better
way to look at it instead of Oh, you do that, I can't
do that, or I do this and you won't like that. There's always
some element of this that is like, this is the way I am,
and this is the way I always raised, which is better than the way
you are and how you were raised. If it is not exactly the same
as how I am and how I was raised. Doesn't that sound ridiculous when
I pointed out and most of you are like, probably not, because so
many of you are still this is what I want and it's not going to
change, so too bad. Well, you've listened this long and you've heard
me this far, so maybe this window is cracked a little. I think
it's as silly as a Republican not dating a Democrat, or a Democrat not
dating a Republican or a drinker, not dating a teetoller. You don't have
to match every single one of your activities, and you certainly don't need to
do it one hundred and sixty eight hours a week. You do you,
I'll do me, and let's do us. Or if you're not part of
certain religion, you can certainly accompany the other person and learn and enjoy and
share whatever part of it that they are. I think that's better. So
my parents and grandparents all try to match up under this facade of Catholicism,
and to quote John Mulaney talk about Catholic system, don't google it and this
facade that they put up, it was all nonsense and none of it really
had anything to do with Catholicism or religion. And if we get into that
church's nonsense and hypocrisy, I'd have to start a whole another podcast, which
I might. And I don't care what your religion is when talking about this,
because I don't even care what your religion is period. This is how
all the world's problems start and have always started, and how they persist.
People care way too much about it. We've made so much progress in blending
so many I don't know possibilities, we'll call him that when it comes to
dating. Yet we stick so stubbornly to the one that seems to, in
reality matter the least. We only pretend that it matters the most. So
stop pretending doesn't matter the most. Eighty percent of the pool of possibilities when
it comes to dating is going to be a different religion from you, no
matter what religion you are, And so to not explore that eighty percent eliminates
a whole lot of people before you get into anything else. And God forbid
no pawn that you start parsing down how deeply devoted any particular person is,
you know, or how devoted they are to some particular denomination or sect.
Nobody's the same nobody, nor should we be. Stop pretending everybody is just
pretty close, and that means overall and pretty close is good enough. I
don't care if one is Hindu and one is Baptist. You know what,
when you break down the fundamentals, the principles that drive any religion, they're
almost identical. You are building walls to the unfamiliar for no other reason than
besides they are familiar. And when unfamiliar, the word is broken down the
etymology the meeting. It means that you don't have knowledge of something, but
in actuality, unfamiliar means not of the family, not of your family.
What you know, what you are used to, and everything good about dating
or relationship can almost be found there right there. What you aren't used to,
what you don't know, what you aren't familiar with, not of the
family. I have traveled all over the world doing the great love debate we
need to show in Tel Aviv a couple years ago, and I took a
trip to Jerusalem, which is considered the holy land of the three major religions.
They all share space, they all do their thing, and if you
closed your eyes and you just kind of listened to it, or you printed
out transcriptions of what everybody was saying or praying, it's pretty much the same,
and everybody would be a lot better off if we just accepted that we
can share space and do whatever we want with our faith and beliefs, and
understand that the person sitting across the table from you on a first date should
be able to do the same, and you can learn from that person.
So give everyone a shot, which is what I always say, No matter
what they celebrate no matter what they eat, no matter who or how they
worship, no matter how they spend a few minutes a day or a few
hours a week. At the end of the day, now I'm a stay
think that way. I think you will be absolutely fine, So disagree with
me. All you want Great Love listeners, I think you know I'm right.
And if you'd think I'm not right, shoot me an email Great Love
Debate at gmail dot com and I will smash that ping pong ball right back
at you. But I want a year from you. Shoot us and go
to Great Love Debate dot com. I don't know what shows we have coming
up, but we do have some shows coming up, so check that out
for our live to our schedule. But most importantly like share review, please
follow this podcast, Review this podcast. Don't give me two stars just because
you didn't like what I said today. You stuck it out the whole way.
If you listen this far, give it five stars because, as always
at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped making love. See you next
time, the Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate, the Great
Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.