WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.680 --> 00:00:04.040
This is doctor Wendy Walsh and you're
listening to k I Am six forty,

2
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:09.560
the Doctor Wendy Walsh Show on demand
on the iHeartRadio app. I Am six

3
00:00:09.640 --> 00:00:12.160
forty. You have Doctor Wendy Walsh
with you. This is the Doctor Wendy

4
00:00:12.199 --> 00:00:16.559
Walsh Show. Okay, Producer Kayla, I am taking the calls. If

5
00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:19.679
you have a relationship question, give
me a call. Remember, I'm not

6
00:00:19.719 --> 00:00:23.160
a therapist. I'm a psychology professor. But I've written three books on relationships

7
00:00:23.160 --> 00:00:27.000
and i did a dissertation on attachment
theory. So I'm happy to weigh in

8
00:00:27.039 --> 00:00:31.239
with my life's wisdom. Okay,
Producer Kayla, Who do we have first,

9
00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:34.920
Laura? What's your question? Laura? Well, I just have a

10
00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:41.640
question as far as age disparity.
So I'm happily involved with a man who's

11
00:00:41.679 --> 00:00:47.799
twenty four years younger than me.
Fun I'm yeah, yeah, he's great.

12
00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:53.039
He's thirty two. I'm fifty six. We live together. We've been

13
00:00:53.079 --> 00:00:57.280
in a monogamous relationship for about a
year, but I've known him for three

14
00:00:57.359 --> 00:01:03.920
years off his friends for the first
two years, and then he's the one

15
00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:11.799
that wanted to wanted more relationship with
me. Wanted more, wanted to monogamous,

16
00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.959
and but I you know, and
he sees the future with me.

17
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:19.680
You know, I'm I was very
clear, like I don't want just a

18
00:01:19.840 --> 00:01:23.359
fleeding relationship. That's I want something
that's going to last. That I'm concerned

19
00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:27.400
about it. So because question can
it work? Is that really the question?

20
00:01:29.840 --> 00:01:32.680
Pardon me? Can it work?
Is that? Yeah? Exactly.

21
00:01:32.920 --> 00:01:36.519
So you're fifty six, he's thirty
two. You've been in a relationship for

22
00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:40.239
a year with him, you live
together, you're monogamous, he's into you,

23
00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:42.159
and everything's going great right now.
So you know, I always say

24
00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:47.239
anxiety is fear of the future.
Depression is fear of the past. So

25
00:01:47.280 --> 00:01:49.760
you're sitting there fearing the future.
So let me just say this. There

26
00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:55.239
are two considerations when we have a
large age disparancy in a relationship. The

27
00:01:55.280 --> 00:02:00.439
first is reproduction and the second is
power. So you know, he has

28
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:04.079
to be sure that he doesn't want
to reproduce. You've got to be sure

29
00:02:04.120 --> 00:02:06.879
that maybe you don't want to adopt, you know whatever, you're fifty six

30
00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.599
years old. I assume you're not
going to get pregnant. So that's really

31
00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:14.439
the conversation that needs to happen between
the two of you is how you're going

32
00:02:14.479 --> 00:02:20.120
to handle reproduction. But the other
is power. The older person always has

33
00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.120
more power. And do you know
why you have more power, Laura,

34
00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:27.240
even if you don't have more money, but usually people have accumulated some wealth

35
00:02:27.280 --> 00:02:30.479
by the time they're in their fifties. You have wisdom and life experience,

36
00:02:31.000 --> 00:02:36.400
so you do have a little more
power. What I want you to consider

37
00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.560
is whether you can be a benevolent
leader. In other words, you might

38
00:02:39.680 --> 00:02:44.360
unconsciously be taking too much control in
this relationship, and he's doing things because

39
00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.840
he doesn't want to lose you,
and then eventually at some point he'll get

40
00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:52.000
worn down by that and leave because
he doesn't have enough power. So the

41
00:02:52.120 --> 00:02:57.080
question two questions to ask each other
are how can we have power that feels

42
00:02:57.159 --> 00:03:02.800
equal? And secondly, are we
clear about reproduction and whether somebody is going

43
00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:07.680
to want a family at some point? Excellent question, Laura, But have

44
00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:10.719
fun while you're there. I think
that sounds like a great relationship. Okay,

45
00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:13.919
Producer, Kayla, who do we
have next? We have Lydia with

46
00:03:14.000 --> 00:03:17.240
a question, Lydia, Hi,
Lydia. It's doctor, Wendy, Hi,

47
00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:21.639
doctor. So my question has to
do with my daughter in law.

48
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:27.879
I babysit for for my grandkids twice
a week. Uh huh, and so

49
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.080
and so does her mother. We
babysit twice a week each we take turn.

50
00:03:31.240 --> 00:03:36.400
Oh isn't that great that the kids
have the both grandmothers caring for them.

51
00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:39.639
It is great. What bothers me
is that my daughter in law has

52
00:03:39.639 --> 00:03:44.960
a way a bad way of asking
for things, for instance, and she'll

53
00:03:44.960 --> 00:03:46.960
do it with her mom too,
which I think it's really bad. So

54
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:53.199
what's her way of asking for things? Instead of saying, can you come

55
00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:57.919
on Wednesday from this hour to this
hour, She'll say, I'm going to

56
00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.080
need you on Wednesday from this hour
to these hours, so I'll see you

57
00:04:01.080 --> 00:04:05.800
on this Ah. So it sounds
so okay, So, Lydia, I

58
00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:09.479
want to get it clear. So
your daughter in law, you babysit,

59
00:04:09.560 --> 00:04:12.719
I assume for free for her two
days a week with your grandkids, because

60
00:04:12.719 --> 00:04:15.560
they're grandkids. It's not babysitting it, but your grands it's loving them,

61
00:04:15.599 --> 00:04:18.879
right, Okay. So when she
asks you if you're available to help,

62
00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:24.079
she doesn't ask, she tells you
what she needs, right, So I

63
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:27.439
think, Lydia, what you need
to do is find a way, not

64
00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:30.480
when she's doing it, like,
hey, I didn't like the way you

65
00:04:30.519 --> 00:04:33.240
said that, but in a time
when you guys are close and happy and

66
00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.720
things are going well, say,
you know, there's something I've been wanting

67
00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.519
to bring up. You know,
I love my grandkids, and I love

68
00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:46.079
babysitting two days a week. But
I find that when you need me to

69
00:04:46.199 --> 00:04:51.199
babysit you, I don't feel a
lot of gratitude or even asking. There's

70
00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:56.240
a sense of expectation, and I
feel a little bit like I'm being taken

71
00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.079
for granted. Now, did you
notice, Lydia, that it's all about

72
00:04:59.079 --> 00:05:03.839
you and your feelings sentence? Right, I'm feeling that I'm not appreciated.

73
00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:09.879
I'm feeling like I'm being taken for
granted. Stay on those eye sentences and

74
00:05:10.000 --> 00:05:14.639
on your feelings and then, because
she probably doesn't even realize that she's doing

75
00:05:14.639 --> 00:05:17.560
that, right, So I think
you've got this. Just find a time

76
00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.560
when everything is going well. Okay, So if you like to call,

77
00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:24.800
I am going to go to social
media because I'm getting a lot of dms

78
00:05:24.800 --> 00:05:27.920
too, But if you would like
to call in with your relationship question.

79
00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:31.079
The numbers one eight hundred five to
zero one five three four. That's one

80
00:05:31.120 --> 00:05:34.279
eight hundred five two zero one k
five. Okay, let me head over

81
00:05:34.279 --> 00:05:39.079
to Instagram and see what the dms
that producer Kayla printed out for me.

82
00:05:39.160 --> 00:05:44.959
Okay, Dear doctor Wendy, how
much of a role do I play in

83
00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:48.199
my own demise? I assume you
don't mean literally I keep dating cheaters.

84
00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.560
I'm not choosing to date men that
cheat, but I keep getting them.

85
00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:57.639
These men are completely different from each
other on the outside. But except for

86
00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.360
this one common denominator that they cheat
an ages, race bills, why do

87
00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:08.879
I keep attracting cheaters? Okay,
So you say you don't choose men,

88
00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:16.319
and I will correct you by saying
you don't consciously choose men who cheat.

89
00:06:17.079 --> 00:06:25.079
The truth is our unconscious runs the
show, and for some reason, your

90
00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:31.279
unconscious finds this familiar. Love is
not about finding pleasure. Love is not

91
00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:39.879
about finding happiness. Love is about
finding the familiar. So I would venture

92
00:06:39.879 --> 00:06:42.600
to guess that if you were to
go to a therapist, your therapist would

93
00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:47.399
help you uncover what went on in
your childhood to make this feeling of loss

94
00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:54.519
and abandonment be part of your idea
for love. I personally believe when two

95
00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:58.759
people meet each other, they do
a little unconscious handshake. Yeah, they

96
00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:01.920
might be different ages, races,
builds, financial status, whatever, but

97
00:07:01.920 --> 00:07:08.040
they do a little unconscious handshake on
that first date, and unconsciously they kind

98
00:07:08.040 --> 00:07:12.040
of say, Hey, you promise
to treat me like my abandoning daddy.

99
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.839
Cool, you gotta treat me like
my critical mom. Great, let's go.

100
00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:17.079
What kind of movies do you like? What do you like to eat?

101
00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:23.240
Right, and all of us unconsciously
you're looking for social commonality, But

102
00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:30.800
unconsciously, your unconsciousness unconsciousness are doing
a dance together. So no, you

103
00:07:30.879 --> 00:07:35.040
don't consciously choose cheaters. You're not
attracting them. You are attracted to them

104
00:07:35.079 --> 00:07:41.600
though, you're attracted to them in
an unconscious way. All right, So

105
00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:45.759
that's what we have to understand.
All right. Uh, here's another one

106
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:48.120
from social If you do want to
call in, I'll be taking your calls.

107
00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:50.639
The numbers one eight hundred and five, two zero, one, five

108
00:07:50.759 --> 00:07:55.600
three four. All right, Dear
doctor Wendy, there is a man at

109
00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:59.000
my gym that I am so smitten
with. I like a DM that starts

110
00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:01.639
out like that. He is shy, and I don't think he will make

111
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:07.879
the first move. He just compliments
my hair and sometimes helps me with certain

112
00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:13.000
workouts. Let's kind of make in
the first move. In LA, women

113
00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:16.920
are more forward, but I'm not
from here and I'm not forward. How

114
00:08:16.959 --> 00:08:20.480
do I get a date? All
right? So let me say this one

115
00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:24.199
thing I want to say. You
say in LA women are more forward,

116
00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:26.680
but you're from somewhere else, so
you're not forward. Well, there's been

117
00:08:26.720 --> 00:08:30.639
research, you know, that whole
thing about Oh well, I have Midwest

118
00:08:30.720 --> 00:08:33.200
values. I just happen to be
living in New York. No, no,

119
00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.799
no. Research shows that it takes, on average about four months for

120
00:08:35.879 --> 00:08:41.039
people to become completely acculturated to the
ways of the new city. Okay,

121
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:43.600
So if you've been here more than
four months, you're an LA girl.

122
00:08:43.799 --> 00:08:48.639
So it's not about where you came
from. Okay. So women, in

123
00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:54.200
my opinion, shouldn't ask men out, but they should extend an invitation for

124
00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:58.440
him to do it. He's already
complimented you on your hair. You don't

125
00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:01.679
do that with people you don't like. He comes over and assists you,

126
00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:05.879
So why are you not reciprocating with
a little flirty action, you know,

127
00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:11.320
flip that hair, do a little
giggle, laugh at his jokes that aren't

128
00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:13.919
funny men, by the way,
no, when their jokes aren't funny and

129
00:09:13.960 --> 00:09:18.480
you're over laughing and they read that
as you like them. Okay, so

130
00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:22.840
you're gonna extend the invitation, which
means you're gonna get in his space when

131
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.600
he's walking out of the gym.
You're gonna gently, you know, laugh

132
00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:30.919
at his jokes and be flirty,
catch his eye whatever, and eventually he's

133
00:09:30.919 --> 00:09:33.679
gonna say, let's go grab a
coffee. Now here's the other thing.

134
00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.080
He might be in a relationship,
and he might be just keeping you there

135
00:09:37.120 --> 00:09:39.840
as a backup mate, because that
happens sometimes, right, So you don't

136
00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:45.759
know fully what his situation is.
And of course one way to totally flirt

137
00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.799
is it just kind of let him
know that you're single, because he might

138
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.039
not know either, right, so
you might have to find a way in

139
00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:54.279
conversation when he's helping you lift those
weights of saying, oh my god,

140
00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.000
I wish my ex boyfriend did this
is probably why we're broken up. Huhuh,

141
00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:01.720
Right, let them know in some
subtle way. There's lots of ways

142
00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:05.159
that people extend information. All right, when we come back, I am

143
00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:09.000
going to continue to take your calls
and answer your dms on social media.

144
00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:15.000
The number is one eight hundred five
two zero one five three four. Translated,

145
00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:18.480
that means one eight hundred five two
zero one KFI, you are listening

146
00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:24.240
to the Doctor Wendy Walls Show on
KFI AM six forty. We're live everywhere

147
00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:31.000
on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening
to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from KFI

148
00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.000
AM six forty. KFI AM six
forty, you have Doctor Wendy Walsh with

149
00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.919
you. This is the Doctor Wendy
Walls Show. I was just live on

150
00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.120
Instagram and people were shooting the questions
at me so vast, But one of

151
00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:48.559
the questions came from a dating woman
in her sixties who says dating in La

152
00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:54.679
sucks, And I thought this would
be a good opportunity for me to talk

153
00:10:54.759 --> 00:11:01.000
a little bit about mating marketplaces.
It is true that there are some cities

154
00:11:01.039 --> 00:11:07.519
in America that are better if we're
talking about heterosexual couples for one gender or

155
00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.440
another. For instance, the worst
place to be if you are a woman

156
00:11:11.480 --> 00:11:15.440
in your twenties and thirties and your
child bearing years and you want to find

157
00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:22.120
a long term mate the worst place
is Manhattan in New York, because there

158
00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.279
is an oversupply of successful women.
And remember women don't like to date down.

159
00:11:26.600 --> 00:11:33.759
They should actually change their whole idea
of what dating down is. You

160
00:11:33.799 --> 00:11:37.240
know what I say. Sometimes your
idea of a power man might just be

161
00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:41.919
a guy who can power a stroller. So yes, sometimes there are gender

162
00:11:41.919 --> 00:11:48.000
disparities. We know, if you
engage in same sex relationships or polyamory or

163
00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:54.480
whatever, there are certain mating marketplaces
that might be better for you. However,

164
00:11:56.399 --> 00:12:03.840
generally it's about skills, it's not
about the marketplace. In other words,

165
00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:09.879
even in a bad market there are
people with great relationship skills who find

166
00:12:09.120 --> 00:12:13.399
wonderful relationships. One of the books
I wrote is called The Thirty Day Love

167
00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:18.639
Detoks, and in it I use
this metaphor. I say, even if

168
00:12:18.679 --> 00:12:24.320
there's let's assume there's an oversupply of
successful single women in a marketplace. So

169
00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:30.879
even if there's a bumper crop one
year of tomatoes and the price of tomatoes

170
00:12:31.200 --> 00:12:35.080
drops down to one cent ahead,
there is still going to be a market

171
00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:43.200
for an heirloom, artisan organic tomato
that's a dollar ahead. So I ask

172
00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:48.519
you, who are you? If
you believe you are worth it, not

173
00:12:48.600 --> 00:12:56.039
fake compensating like I deserve the best. But you literally internally believe that you

174
00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:01.399
deserve love and care and commitment,
and you know how, and you learn

175
00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:09.639
how to negotiate that. Then even
in a tough mating marketplace, you will

176
00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:13.879
be able to find and create and
keep love right. You know, I

177
00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.559
have been around this game for quite
a few decades. I've written a few

178
00:13:18.559 --> 00:13:22.720
books about it. I often say
it's an act of Catharsis writing all my

179
00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:26.120
dating and relationships books, because they
were like a love letter to myself.

180
00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.360
They were telling me how to behave. And I remember, you know,

181
00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:33.000
before I met my fiance, in
the last stages of dating, I would

182
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:37.240
say to myself, what what doctor
Wendy Walsh say? I what should do?

183
00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:43.519
What would she say? And I
would literally had an alter ego inside

184
00:13:43.519 --> 00:13:50.879
my head. And I learned relationship
skills by reading the research, by turning

185
00:13:50.879 --> 00:13:54.720
it into language that everybody can understand, by making it accessible in my books

186
00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:58.279
and my podcasts and my blogs on
my radio show. And then I started

187
00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.960
walking walk, not just talking the
talk. So, no matter what your

188
00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.080
mating marketplace is, if you have
good relationships, So what are good relationship

189
00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:11.399
skills. First of all, date
within your league. You know what you

190
00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:15.279
are going to be rejected if you
continue to date out of your leak.

191
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:18.919
I'm not saying date less than but
data cross right. That's the first thing.

192
00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:24.559
Second thing, have boundaries. Love
yourself. Don't like have such low

193
00:14:24.600 --> 00:14:28.159
self esteem. They okay, I'll
go anywhere, I'll pay anything, I'll

194
00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:30.799
do anything. Okay, I'll bring
my own car. Whatever you need.

195
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.320
No no, no, no no
no. You know what you deserve,

196
00:14:33.960 --> 00:14:37.759
and you tell the world what you
deserve. In one of my books,

197
00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:43.320
I interviewed women who had gotten married
in a time when marriage is on the

198
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:48.600
decline, and I learned that they
do it by negotiating it. So from

199
00:14:48.679 --> 00:14:50.159
the beginning they say, by the
way, this is what I'm looking for,

200
00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:56.919
and they're not worried about being abandoned. If the person abandons them because

201
00:14:56.919 --> 00:15:00.000
they can't meet their needs, they
do the touchdown cheer because they've been saying

202
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:03.279
from a whole bunch of months or
years of dating somebody inappropriate. It's a

203
00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:09.279
process of elimination and a little bit
of an endurance test. But at the

204
00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:15.159
same time, you have to have
the skills to share and be vulnerable.

205
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:20.799
But I digress. I wanted to
go to the DMS and answer some of

206
00:15:20.799 --> 00:15:22.120
your questions. Okay, here we
are, let me go back in.

207
00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:31.440
Uh Dear doctor, Wendy, the
woman I am dating leaves me messages on

208
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:37.440
scene then responds hours later. Oh
good trick lady. Every time she does

209
00:15:37.480 --> 00:15:41.559
that, I do the same.
She will take four hours to respond,

210
00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:46.000
so I won't text back until the
next day. It doesn't seem to change

211
00:15:46.000 --> 00:15:48.600
her response time, though, and
I feel like I'm getting too old for

212
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.960
games. How can I tell her
to text back in a more respectful and

213
00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:58.840
timely manner? Well, first of
all, our job is to assess some

214
00:16:00.399 --> 00:16:06.000
for mate's status, not to change
them or try to get them to behave

215
00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.279
you see what you want to do
it? Just give them enough rope and

216
00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:12.000
if they need to hang themselves with
it, great like. In other words,

217
00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:17.559
just be there. And what you've
learned is that maybe this person isn't

218
00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:22.320
appropriate for you, Maybe this person
doesn't give you the amount of attention and

219
00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.240
contact and frequency of texts that you
like to have. So it's not your

220
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:30.960
job to change them. It's either
your job to accept them or move on.

221
00:16:32.799 --> 00:16:37.120
That's it. It's never our job
to change anybody else? Uh,

222
00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:41.240
Dear doctor Wendy, how can I
find out if my boyfriend is married?

223
00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:47.919
WHOA? He blocked this woman from
my social media and when I unblocked her,

224
00:16:48.399 --> 00:16:52.519
I saw that she has me blocked. Um, I think he blocked

225
00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:55.840
me from her page too. Is
there a way to see if he's married?

226
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:03.120
But? Okay, first of all, have you asked him? Okay?

227
00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.599
If you are sleeping with somebody,
if you are spending time sharing emotional

228
00:17:07.640 --> 00:17:15.880
intimacies and you do not trust him, why are you there? You see

229
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:19.599
when people say how long should wait
before you start having sex with somebody until

230
00:17:19.640 --> 00:17:25.920
your stomach says it's okay, until
you really trust somebody and you put them

231
00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:30.599
to the test and they've sacrificed for
you. Now, I do have a

232
00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:37.640
little issue here. He blocked this
woman from my social media? How is

233
00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:41.839
he into your social media? What
kind of boundaries do you have? Just

234
00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.160
chicken right? He should not have
access to your social media or your passwords

235
00:17:45.440 --> 00:17:49.759
or be able to block anybody.
So already I'm not loving this relationship.

236
00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:56.160
But ask him too. Dear doctor
Wendy, how do you avoid being bitter?

237
00:17:56.319 --> 00:18:00.839
After so many heartbreaks? I am
starting to lose my confidence. Okay,

238
00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.799
I've been through lots of heartbreaks in
my life. You grow a little

239
00:18:04.799 --> 00:18:11.640
bit of alligator skin. You remember
after each breakup to surround yourself with people

240
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.759
who love you. Your friends and
family who love you unconditionally, and with

241
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:22.960
those people around you bolster your self
confidence. I also believe that a breakup

242
00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:26.200
and the grieving that comes after it
is a unique opportunity to go see a

243
00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.640
licensed therapist. This is your time
and your sadness to figure out what it's

244
00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:36.079
really about, because it's probably not
about the person you were dating. It

245
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:41.960
was probably something that happened way earlier. Ah yeah, ye I Love hurts.

246
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.759
Sometimes it's wonderful, but it can
also hurt. All right, when

247
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:48.519
we come back, I think I
have a very special guest speaking of love

248
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:56.079
that hurts. My next guest after
the break is someone who suffered one of

249
00:18:56.119 --> 00:19:04.839
the biggest tragedies in love that you
could ever imagine. Her own son died

250
00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:11.559
after an episode of sexploitation. If
you're a parent, you do not want

251
00:19:11.599 --> 00:19:17.039
to miss my interview with my next
guest. You are listening to the Doctor

252
00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.960
Wendy Wall's show on KFI AM six
forty. We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio

253
00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:27.079
app. You're listening to Doctor Wendy
Walsh on demand from KFI AM six forty.

254
00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:32.359
Welcome back to the Doctor Wendy Wall
Show on KFI AM six forty.

255
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:36.640
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You know, I have been talking

256
00:19:36.680 --> 00:19:41.559
about the science of love for many, many decades. And while you think,

257
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.480
if you're new to the show,
that when you talk about love,

258
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:49.359
it's all about good feeling and sunshine
and flowers. But I've also talked about

259
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:56.400
things like love is a drug and
we're less able to discern when we are

260
00:19:56.440 --> 00:20:00.599
falling in love we put on rose
colored glasses. I've also talked about how

261
00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:07.359
unnatural the Internet and dating apps are
for finding mates because they make it even

262
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:11.279
harder for us to discern as people
are hiding behind screens. In addition,

263
00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:18.240
men tend to over report a partner's
interest in them. Sadly, this has

264
00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:25.240
led to accusations of sexual harassment in
the workplace. But there's something else.

265
00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:32.680
Developmental psychologists know that teenagers have an
imaginary audience. They think everybody's looking.

266
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.440
They are far more vulnerable to shame
than the average person. And finally,

267
00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:45.680
we know that shame hurts the brain
exactly like a physical pain, and maybe

268
00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:52.839
worse. Why am I giving you
these random statistics because my guest today is

269
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:57.319
a woman who experienced probably one of
the worst pains and losses that a mother

270
00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:07.960
can ever ex experience, and it's
partly because of all these psychological phenomenon.

271
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:14.079
Mary Rodie, thank you so much
for being with us. Hi, doctor

272
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.759
Wendy, thank you for having me
so that people can know a little bit

273
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:22.640
about who you are. You are
a school teacher and you have made it

274
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:30.599
your mission to help keep children safer
online and to try to educate parents about

275
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:37.440
the potential harms of social media.
Your own son, Riley Basford, died

276
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:45.880
by suicide at the age of fifteen
after becoming a victim of an online sextortion

277
00:21:47.119 --> 00:21:52.480
scam that began on Facebook. Mary, my heart goes out to you.

278
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:57.799
First of all, My deepest condolence
is I can't even imagine the pain that

279
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:03.519
you've been experiencing. Can you tell
us a little bit about what happened?

280
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:11.720
Sure, thank you, it's I
think it is the worst pain that you

281
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:15.200
can feel, and it's also the
deepest love too, the love of your

282
00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:26.359
child. So Riley was almost sixteen
when he was contacted by a criminal posing

283
00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:32.079
as a beautiful young woman on Facebook, and that person sent him a friend

284
00:22:32.119 --> 00:22:37.240
request along with a group of his
same friends. That's what catfishing is.

285
00:22:37.319 --> 00:22:41.799
And then, long story short,
Riley didn't go to school that day because

286
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:44.720
he got braces on his teeth,
so it was kind of more available to

287
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.960
be on his phone. He'd only
recently gotten Facebook because he wanted Facebook Marketplace,

288
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:53.400
and that led to him he wasn't
allowed to use marketplace because he wasn't

289
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:59.599
eighteen. But then this criminal could
contact him and pose as a girl in

290
00:22:59.680 --> 00:23:04.279
lou him and send him child sexual
abuse material. And then he returned with

291
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:12.279
his own self generated content and they
immediately began extorting him and full of shame

292
00:23:12.359 --> 00:23:19.240
and guilt and impulsivity as he was. Yeah, he died by suicide.

293
00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:26.920
The whole thing only took six hours. What six hours? I thought you

294
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:32.160
were going to tell me a story
of grooming that went on for months that

295
00:23:32.640 --> 00:23:37.440
he Oh, my goodness, nop
six hours, even if I did check

296
00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:41.160
his phone every night. I said
goodbye to him at ten thirty in the

297
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:48.960
morning with his new silver smile,
these braces he'd just gotten on he had

298
00:23:48.039 --> 00:23:52.759
just had a milkshake. I dropped
him off at his dad's which it was

299
00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.279
his dad's day. That was our
typical routine, with plans to see him

300
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:02.200
at an event that night. He
was so excited about the upcoming spring break.

301
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.359
He couldn't wait for lacrosse to start. He had no mental health issues,

302
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:11.319
he had no addiction to social media. If anything, he gained a

303
00:24:11.359 --> 00:24:15.440
lot. That's kind of what he
and his friends did during COVID. That's

304
00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:18.000
when I thought. That's where I
really thought a predator might get him in

305
00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:23.160
his gaming and this all, this
whole thing segobite him at ten thirty.

306
00:24:23.160 --> 00:24:26.279
I have a live picture of him
at two thirty. He's in a body

307
00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:34.440
bag. Oh Mary, Mary,
I'm so sorry this happened. You know

308
00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:40.799
I mentioned when I introduced you,
I happen to be a professor of developmental

309
00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:45.880
psychology, and developmental psychologists know that
the teenage brain is very unique. It's

310
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:51.440
starting to separate a little bit from
its family of origin and find new safe

311
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:56.680
attachments, and it is very vulnerable
to shame and the thought that other people

312
00:24:56.680 --> 00:25:00.680
could see them doing something. As
teenagers say, awkward, right, But

313
00:25:00.880 --> 00:25:07.200
they it's really an imaginary audience.
Unfortunately, what online and social media has

314
00:25:07.240 --> 00:25:14.000
done is it's made they're a teenager's
worse fears, their imaginary audience real because

315
00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:18.240
someone could threaten to post something.
So I'm reading between the lines of what

316
00:25:18.279 --> 00:25:25.400
you said, but it sounds like
he self generated something that was embarrassing and

317
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.440
that this person, this criminal,
threatened to post it on his social media.

318
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.240
Am I correct? Unless he sent
him money or something. Is that

319
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.480
what the extortion was about? It
was we found out of maybe twenty four

320
00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:44.920
to forty eight hours into it,
that that person posing as the young girl

321
00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:52.480
had sent a picture of Riley's face
to everybody with the same last name as

322
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.880
Riley. So I didn't get it
because we don't have the same last name.

323
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:02.440
And then in the middle of the
night, you know, of course

324
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.720
we're not sleeping. It's like I
can't even really take you back to it

325
00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.559
because like it's not even real still, but one of my other children said,

326
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.680
mom, look at this, and
so at that point we thought,

327
00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.119
oh, if we find Megan Miller, we'll be able to know what happened

328
00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:22.000
to him. But then it was
like another twenty four hours when a state

329
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.960
trooper's like I got to tell you
about something that you've never even heard of,

330
00:26:26.039 --> 00:26:33.039
and you know, at that point
he was the terminology was very unclear.

331
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.759
At that point, we were using
catfishing. It's taken time to really

332
00:26:37.359 --> 00:26:45.920
call it exploitation and put the proper
definitions on what happened. Mary. Again,

333
00:26:45.039 --> 00:26:48.079
I just my stomach is a not
listening to you talk, and I

334
00:26:48.200 --> 00:26:52.359
just want to thank you so much
for being so strong. We're going to

335
00:26:52.400 --> 00:26:53.839
take a break. Will you stay
with us because when we come back,

336
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:59.480
I want to talk about what you
learned. The fact that you're a member

337
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:04.519
of the Commons Media group and you're
helping past the New York Child Data Protection

338
00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:07.359
Act. I want to hear about
that, and I want to hear what

339
00:27:07.599 --> 00:27:15.359
parents can do to keep their kids
and teenagers safe. Mary Rode, the

340
00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:22.759
mother of a son who died by
suicide after being catfished and exploited online.

341
00:27:22.160 --> 00:27:26.960
You are listening to the Doctor Wendy
wall Show on KFI AM six forty.

342
00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.720
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. Right now, let's go to the

343
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:36.359
twenty four hour KFI Newsroom. You're
listening to Doctor Wendy Walsh on demand from

344
00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:41.079
KFI AM six forty. Thanks Welcome
back to the Doctor Wendy Wall Show on

345
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.319
KFI AM six forty live everywhere on
the iHeartRadio app. My guest, Mary

346
00:27:45.400 --> 00:27:52.279
Rod is a very brave woman lost
a son by suicide, a teenager fifteen

347
00:27:52.359 --> 00:27:57.720
years old with braces, who in
only six hours was catflip fished, exploited

348
00:27:57.759 --> 00:28:04.400
online and sadly took his own life. Mary, what is the Common Sense

349
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:14.240
Media Group and what is the Child
Data Protection Act? Okay, so the

350
00:28:14.359 --> 00:28:18.799
Common Sense Media Group really it's they
have a great name. Summarizes that they're

351
00:28:18.839 --> 00:28:26.680
really looking further to be proper protections
for social media users. No acknowledgement that

352
00:28:27.359 --> 00:28:33.960
of these this is uncharted territory.
You know, we really can't reen in

353
00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:37.720
all of the possibilities of all of
the things that can happen on the Internet.

354
00:28:37.799 --> 00:28:42.960
We know that technology is advancing very
rapidly, but all of us are

355
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:48.640
living a life where our phone is, you know, an extension of our

356
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:56.160
being. I realize now we're not
going to be able to really prevent this

357
00:28:56.359 --> 00:28:59.440
from being, and we're not going
to be able to prevent this from being

358
00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.480
in the live of every child,
and so we at least need to get

359
00:29:03.519 --> 00:29:07.240
some guardrails and parameters on it.
And that's what common sense media is really

360
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:15.279
trying to do, just get people
to recognize the addictive algorithms that these things

361
00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:21.319
that are happening in the home of
pretty much any family raising a teenager who

362
00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.920
has a phone, and there's these
power struggles and it's tough, and they

363
00:29:26.119 --> 00:29:33.440
are addicted because social media is trying
to addict to them and is making billions

364
00:29:33.440 --> 00:29:40.079
of dollars doing it, and it's
really impossible as parents to monitor this,

365
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:45.200
to control this. These are really
super intelligent and smart technologists and people who

366
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.680
know exactly how to do it,
and they're doing a great job at it.

367
00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.839
And you've been working to pass the
New York Child Data Protection Act.

368
00:29:53.039 --> 00:30:00.559
What is that You're based in New
York. I am based in New so

369
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:10.119
the Child Data Protection Act pretty much
says that you shouldn't access the data of

370
00:30:10.400 --> 00:30:18.039
minors. I'm all for it.
I'm all for any laws. I think

371
00:30:18.079 --> 00:30:23.240
some of these laws are going to
get into age verification issues, and I

372
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:27.640
have no expert on any of that. I think the reality is that I

373
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:33.799
constantly am hearing about how many points
of data they're collecting on children before they

374
00:30:33.880 --> 00:30:37.720
even have social media. The reality
is they actually know the day you gave

375
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:44.079
birth to that child because you posted
it everywhere. So acting like age verification

376
00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:51.119
is crazy is not really acknowledging how
much information they've already collected on all of

377
00:30:51.200 --> 00:30:56.680
us exactly. So what can parents
do? What are your best advice to

378
00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.000
parents to prevent something like this from
happening? I think, you know,

379
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:06.519
the communication and conversation is a really
big deal, especially centered around just what

380
00:31:06.599 --> 00:31:08.960
I talked about, that they are
trying to addict your child, that it

381
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:15.400
is designed that way, that it's
whatever it might be, whether it be

382
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:22.680
pro anarexia content to your twelve year
old daughter or besides, yeah, all

383
00:31:22.759 --> 00:31:29.160
of it. Yeah, it doesn't
matter, they choose whatever. It is

384
00:31:30.119 --> 00:31:36.200
like acknowledge that your child's brain is
being preyed on, and as much as

385
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:40.279
you're like, oh my gosh,
put it down, it is really really

386
00:31:40.359 --> 00:31:44.799
hard for them, and it's really
really hard for the adults too, So

387
00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.960
trying to set up clear boundaries for
yourself and your entire family, the acknowledgement

388
00:31:51.359 --> 00:31:56.519
that we're all being tracked and addicted, really really talking to your kids that

389
00:31:56.759 --> 00:32:02.079
over and over about who they are
communicating with online, because these people are

390
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:12.119
so good they do. They're so
savvy, they know exactly how to manipulate

391
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:16.680
people, especially kids, right,
and they're very good at driving that wedge.

392
00:32:16.720 --> 00:32:22.039
You know, it's already hard to
raise our kids. And then they're

393
00:32:22.079 --> 00:32:24.319
also like, yeah, I know
your mom's not listening. I'm here for

394
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:29.920
you. Those types of things,
and so I think acknowledging those types of

395
00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:34.119
predatory behaviors, and it's it's tough
because you don't want to scare them,

396
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.559
but the reality is that someone they
think is their friend online is probably not

397
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:44.559
in all of the cases of so
many children. So then our listeners can

398
00:32:44.720 --> 00:32:50.960
understand what happened. As a way
to see these signs, I want to

399
00:32:51.480 --> 00:32:52.960
think that I want to make sure
that I'm clear on what you told us.

400
00:32:53.319 --> 00:32:58.640
So, after spending a number of
hours online, this criminal posing to

401
00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:01.160
be a young beautiful woman asked your
son to generate some content. And the

402
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.039
first thing was innocent. It was
a picture of his face. And so

403
00:33:05.839 --> 00:33:10.160
you're telling me that hours after he
passed away, this picture of his face

404
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:15.279
went to any follower that your son
had who had the same last name,

405
00:33:15.400 --> 00:33:19.440
assuming that they would be a family
member. Was that set up as a

406
00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:22.240
threat to say Hey, if you
don't pay me the money, I'm going

407
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:25.960
to send you the I'm going to
send all your family members the more embarrassing

408
00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:32.039
content. Precisely. Yeah, that
was to say, see what I can

409
00:33:32.119 --> 00:33:40.400
do in just a quick note that
the origin of the pictures started with the

410
00:33:40.480 --> 00:33:45.559
criminal the criminal scent child sexual abuse
content. Oh yeah, Riley, they

411
00:33:45.599 --> 00:33:51.440
have to model it first. Yeah, that in itself is illegal and running

412
00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:54.599
rampant on big tech. Right,
none of that that's not happening on anybody

413
00:33:54.599 --> 00:34:02.039
else's media. Now, was this
criminal ever found or arrested? No,

414
00:34:02.039 --> 00:34:07.079
no, no justice at all.
Do you think this person was not in

415
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:12.559
America? Like one of the syndicates
we hear about, the person was definitely

416
00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:19.119
not in America, and they were
able to track their location on the West

417
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:23.239
coast of Africa. But then from
that point, Homeland Security, the FBI,

418
00:34:23.400 --> 00:34:29.159
anybody working on it just says they
don't have a trade relationship with that

419
00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:37.440
country, so there's no extradition of
criminals. Oh yeah, real justice.

420
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:45.000
And this criminal may not even know
that this happened to Riley. I would

421
00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.159
love to know. I don't I
don't know, and I think in my

422
00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:54.280
grief and healing, I'm becoming different
too. I think there are potentially things

423
00:34:54.280 --> 00:35:00.519
that I was told by law enforcement
that I could process at the time.

424
00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:06.440
So some of that because I've been
working a bit with Nick Mick and NICKMK.

425
00:35:06.599 --> 00:35:07.639
This is the one thing I really
want to throw out in their to

426
00:35:07.760 --> 00:35:14.960
parents is really really useful. Nick
Mick has Take It Down and their Nick

427
00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:20.079
Mick is National Center for Missing and
Exploited Children, and they are really trying

428
00:35:20.119 --> 00:35:22.360
to change the dialogue from don't do
it, don't do it. I mean

429
00:35:22.400 --> 00:35:24.920
we need to say don't do it, don't buy the drugs, like don't

430
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:29.480
send the pictures, right, but
if you do, I am here to

431
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:31.840
help you. It's not the end
of the world. And Nick Mick has

432
00:35:31.880 --> 00:35:38.039
a really good program online take it
Down dot org, where you can get

433
00:35:38.079 --> 00:35:45.159
help if you think that your child's
picture or kids themselves can get help in

434
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:52.679
getting that type of content removed.
Take it Down dot Org. Mary Rode,

435
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:57.840
thank you so much for joining us
today. I am so sorry you've

436
00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:00.719
gone through this tragedy, but I
want you to know that your bravery in

437
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:06.840
becoming a voice on this issue may
save the lives of many, many,

438
00:36:06.880 --> 00:36:12.000
many children. I hope that Riley
did not die in vain. Thank you,

439
00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:15.280
Mary. You are listening to the
Doctor Wendy Walls Show on KFI AM

440
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:21.639
six forty. Were live everywhere on
the iHeartRadio app. I'm here every Sunday

441
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.800
from seven to nine pm. It
is always my honor to weigh in on

442
00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:31.039
your most intimate lives. Thanks for
listening. You've been listening to Doctor Wendy

443
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:35.440
Walsh. You can always hear us
live on KFI AM six forty from seven

444
00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:39.039
to nine pm on Sunday and anytime
on demand on the iHeartRadio app