WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:05.320 Bizarrely, the only thing that has even come close to the growl. And 2 00:00:05.360 --> 00:00:09.960 you'll probably laugh at this if you've ever seen the sort of the Marvel film 3 00:00:10.000 --> 00:00:16.079 The Incredible Hulk where they're going through the factory and it's all dark and you 4 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:21.320 just hear the whulk growl and yeah, sort of thing. The first time 5 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:24.160 I heard that, it really killed down my spine because I was like, 6 00:00:24.600 --> 00:00:28.160 that's pretty much what it was like, That's what it sounded like. Yeah, 7 00:00:28.559 --> 00:00:32.359 it did sound like a muttering. And that's where I started thinking a 8 00:00:32.359 --> 00:00:34.759 lot of lines, and I don't think this was a human. I look 9 00:00:34.840 --> 00:00:39.000 into these things and I want more than anything to see one, and there 10 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.079 in the moment, obviously, I was thinking, you know, I literally 11 00:00:42.240 --> 00:01:22.159 sat there frozen for an hour. This is Bigfoot Crossroads. I am Matt, 12 00:01:22.200 --> 00:01:26.560 and I am joined by a very special guest, mister Luke Phillips, 13 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:33.640 author. And would it be fair to call you a zoologist? Probably it's 14 00:01:33.680 --> 00:01:36.719 not completely fair to cool me because because it's not what I do for a 15 00:01:36.760 --> 00:01:42.519 living anymore. But I studied oversity and I do work in wildlife conservation, 16 00:01:42.760 --> 00:01:49.040 so I think you're fairly knowledgeable about the subject matters that we're going to be 17 00:01:49.079 --> 00:01:57.840 covering on this episode. Your most recent book is actually a work about Bigfoot. 18 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:01.719 It's sad lead is. Yes, you had mister Sam Sharon do the 19 00:02:01.840 --> 00:02:07.039 artwork for the book, and I had posted on Instagram and you reached out 20 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:09.800 to me. I had no idea you were a listener of the show. 21 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:16.960 I was pleasantly surprised to hear that, if you don't mind talk a little 22 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:23.039 bit about what the book Rogue is about and kind of talk about some of 23 00:02:23.080 --> 00:02:28.000 the stories and lore that inspired the book, if you don't mind, Yeah, 24 00:02:28.039 --> 00:02:30.840 of course, yeah. Yeah. It was very interesting because, yeah, 25 00:02:30.879 --> 00:02:37.120 the book launched and as you say, sounded the artwork and I've listened 26 00:02:37.159 --> 00:02:40.599 to a Big Crossroads for a long time, so it was wonderful to crop 27 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:46.560 up in my feed. But Rogue is pretty much a story I wanted to 28 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:53.840 tell for a long time. Sort of the monsters and the cryptis of the 29 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:59.759 world have always fascinated to be I've written books previously about the big cat phenomenon 30 00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:06.520 in the UK, something I've investigated and looked at over here, but Bigfat 31 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:10.240 has always been something that's imagination from from a very young age. I'm one 32 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:15.960 of those kids whose dad let him sit down on a Sunday afternoon to watch 33 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:21.439 the Legend of Boggie Creek far too young and was kind of good, was 34 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:27.080 kind of traumatized by the hand reaching in through the windows the windows scene, 35 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:32.560 and have kind of been transfixed ever since. And obviously over the years, 36 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:39.759 I've I've heard the stories. I've spoken to people even who have very very 37 00:03:39.879 --> 00:03:44.840 legitimate, you know, stand up people who think they've had experiences, obviously 38 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:50.080 primarily in the US. Lots and lots of people, you know again, 39 00:03:50.280 --> 00:03:54.360 people who don't necessarily believe in these things, who have really quite significant, 40 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:01.479 you know, experiences and which you know, they see convinced us of the 41 00:04:01.560 --> 00:04:08.599 experience they've had. But yeah, I suppose I just became sort of transfixed, 42 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:11.560 really because a bit like with the big cat phenomenon over here in the 43 00:04:11.599 --> 00:04:15.800 UK. When I first started looking at it in the in the UK, 44 00:04:16.079 --> 00:04:21.439 with the big cats, I was dead set on trying to prove that they 45 00:04:21.519 --> 00:04:25.680 didn't exist, that they weren't here, that they couldn't possibly be here. 46 00:04:26.000 --> 00:04:30.160 There was no ecosystems to support them or habitat or food chain. And you 47 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:33.759 know that once I started going down the rabbit hole, what happened was that 48 00:04:33.800 --> 00:04:38.279 I actually went completely the other way and I committed to myself they were here. 49 00:04:39.000 --> 00:04:43.279 You know, I saw evidence from police cameras and things like that that 50 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.519 it really stood out to me. And the same kind of happened with Bigfoot 51 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:50.920 looking at things like the Passing Good Given film. Once we started looking at 52 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.680 the you know, the method of locomotion, you know, so that the 53 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:59.279 factor sort of you know, the compliant gate that Bookfort has, which is 54 00:04:59.319 --> 00:05:06.519 a biological adaptation which makes it a more efficient form of bipedal walking. And 55 00:05:06.560 --> 00:05:11.199 again, all the clues just started falling into place that actually, perhaps we 56 00:05:11.240 --> 00:05:15.839 are talking about something that's real. And of course then that gets my imagination 57 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:21.000 going, and it was they the Monster in the Woods story sort of started 58 00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:25.879 coming to mind, and it has been something that's sort of been there for 59 00:05:25.920 --> 00:05:29.600 a long time. Yeah, this is a bit of a love letter's a 60 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:32.519 big Foot. There's an awful lot of law and legends that you know, 61 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:38.839 sort of referenced in the book, you know, from Patterson Ginland. It's 62 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:42.800 early on, so it's not a spoiler, but the code that the sheriff 63 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:46.839 gives to you know, one of the law agencies to notify that it has 64 00:05:46.879 --> 00:05:54.120 been a bigot attack. Is the anniversary date of the Patterson Goodland film, 65 00:05:54.319 --> 00:05:59.240 you know, and there's I mentioned rock apes, most of the big variants 66 00:05:59.480 --> 00:06:02.040 across the world. In fact, you know, sort of everything from the 67 00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:09.199 Stone giants and not of war attacks, you know, in even the between 68 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:13.399 the lakes and incidents. So yeah, there's a lot in there, lots 69 00:06:13.399 --> 00:06:17.160 of little Easter eggs for fans of Bigfoot. You mentioned something in an email 70 00:06:17.319 --> 00:06:23.079 about sort of a possible encounter you had yourself. Could you talk about that. 71 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:29.399 Yeah, So that was back in two thousand and nine where I was 72 00:06:29.439 --> 00:06:34.600 basically over on the coast of California, and I was there tracking the grey 73 00:06:34.639 --> 00:06:40.120 whale migration and basically just on a bit of a road trip. It was 74 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:44.560 my first time ever in the United States. I had a few things that 75 00:06:44.600 --> 00:06:47.480 I really really wanted to see. One of the things was I really wanted 76 00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:51.600 to see a scrub jay and a bed that we don't get over here of 77 00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:58.360 course in the UK. So I set off Palm Springs where they were known 78 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:03.160 to be. I decided I was gonna bought the quick you know, one 79 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:09.480 man, you know, sort of ten for Walmart hadn't had oft been more 80 00:07:09.519 --> 00:07:14.680 Walmart because we don't have them here, and you know, it was looking 81 00:07:14.720 --> 00:07:18.079 forward to it got set up and I feel, you know, I've done 82 00:07:18.199 --> 00:07:21.680 lots of you know, as I said, I was study zoology, I've 83 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:25.040 done a lot of work with big animals. Yes, so I'm not I'm 84 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:28.240 not against staying in the woods. So I spend a lot of time hiking, 85 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:30.399 walking, you know, out in the woods. It wasn't too right 86 00:07:30.399 --> 00:07:36.839 about that. I think the campground was called Coral Canyon, which was sort 87 00:07:36.839 --> 00:07:42.800 of on the way to Palm Springs. And what I hadn't realized, because 88 00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:46.759 this was in March of that year, was was A the campsite was closed 89 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:53.079 and B there had been a recent wildfire. So when I turned up there 90 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.720 was there was nobody there at all. So I set myself up. It 91 00:07:57.800 --> 00:08:01.439 was only given me for one night. I wasn't worried, uh yeah, 92 00:08:01.480 --> 00:08:05.000 but I actually went to bed quite early. There was nothing really around. 93 00:08:05.199 --> 00:08:09.079 There was some owls calling, you know, nothing nothing that you know, 94 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:16.759 sort of got my you know, sort of sort of maybe worry. Went 95 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:24.439 to bed, and then during the night I was woken by something that seemed 96 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.360 really quite loud, and you know, at first I did think it was 97 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:31.800 a bird call, and my head was going through all sorts of different beds 98 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:33.120 sort of, I don't think that is a bird. I don't know what 99 00:08:33.159 --> 00:08:37.840 that is. And I'll be honest right you know, at that time, 100 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:41.320 because it was not on my radar, it wasn't really what I was thinking 101 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:45.720 about. I was there for you know, what I can sider of real 102 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:52.360 world life. But there was quite a big, sort of booming sort of 103 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:58.679 call, which did still sound a little bit like an owl, but if 104 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.080 it was an how it was an eight pound out and then and then there 105 00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:09.120 was a growl, which is before in California I had encountered a black bear. 106 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:13.519 So yeah, so I was like, okay, probably a bear. 107 00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:16.679 The thing I take to do, which is to make yourself heard, you 108 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:18.799 know, so I said, you know, I just said, hello, 109 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:24.559 there, there's you know, there's something here. I'm here or something along 110 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.919 those lines. Quite cool, quite calm, wasn't worried, and then there 111 00:09:30.000 --> 00:09:37.240 was just this absolute burst of h you know, it sounded like, you 112 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:43.039 know, something coming straight through the trees at me. And I thing was 113 00:09:43.919 --> 00:09:50.600 basically this line like something was being dragged across the tent, and you know, 114 00:09:50.639 --> 00:09:56.279 I did hear think something going thundering past, and I'm not going to 115 00:09:56.279 --> 00:10:01.360 pretend I'm an expert, and no, but it did sound by peedle and 116 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:09.480 then it went absolutely dead quiet and there was no sound. There was no 117 00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:13.559 favor BA calls. The area in front of me was just gravel and sand, 118 00:10:15.720 --> 00:10:20.240 so you know, technically you heard it moving on or moving off from 119 00:10:20.279 --> 00:10:22.679 there. It was like it it got to the edge of my tent and 120 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:26.440 then it just went absolutely quiet, and I was like, well, maybe 121 00:10:26.440 --> 00:10:31.039 it's still there. So I just stayed quiet. And I stayed quiet for 122 00:10:31.039 --> 00:10:35.399 about half an hour, if I'm being honest, just wondering what's going on 123 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:41.960 here. And then I thought I started thinking about what I'd seen, and 124 00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:48.360 bizarrely, the thing that came to mind was the track next to the tent. 125 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:52.919 The amount of the room there was between me and the brush wasn't wasn't 126 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:58.600 huge, so it was quite a narrow gap. And I just imagined when 127 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:01.480 you're run quite fast along an hour a gap when you throw out your hand 128 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:09.000 to balance and perhaps a finger or something, you know, running you know 129 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.360 past you know, touching the fabric of the tents as it round past, 130 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:20.039 and I was like, okay, so I was thinking person, you know, 131 00:11:20.720 --> 00:11:24.039 and again, you know, in the UK, one of the things 132 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:26.879 we don't have to worry about is people running around with guns, so that 133 00:11:26.960 --> 00:11:30.879 of course crossed my mind. I was like, oh, okay, maybe 134 00:11:30.879 --> 00:11:33.480 there's something out here. You know, you heard me, Okay, just 135 00:11:35.080 --> 00:11:39.639 stay quiet. However, about fifteen minutes after that, so about it was 136 00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.279 getting on for an hour after the incident, and after i'd heard anything again, 137 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.000 all of the Sword of the Burden eyses, you know, the nightlife 138 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:54.519 back in and I didn't sleep for the rest of the night at all. 139 00:11:54.720 --> 00:11:58.679 Was on alert, and literally the moment daylight came, I sort of packed 140 00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.720 up with tent and went, you know, as quick as I could, 141 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:07.600 if you're being honest. But I did spend most of the time convincing myself 142 00:12:07.600 --> 00:12:11.600 it was a person, but it just didn't fit right because if it was 143 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:18.840 a person, they were very, very big because the the in a tent, 144 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:24.399 which wasn't a huge tent, but the finger as such was passing along 145 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:30.919 the tent overhead height. So wow, So yeah, that was that was 146 00:12:31.799 --> 00:12:35.360 Yeah, that would be really unnerving. You mentioned something interesting, and it's 147 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:45.759 something I've heard a lot from people, especially in the UK, about the 148 00:12:45.799 --> 00:12:50.799 way that America is perceived in gun ownership. Yes, I think it's I 149 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:56.039 think I think it's the stereotype of a bit like over here, it's always 150 00:12:56.039 --> 00:13:01.720 wet and cold and we only have a drink exactly. It's kind of the 151 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.720 same thing. But yeah, I hate to admit it was, despite having 152 00:13:05.840 --> 00:13:09.039 been Tonctress oftentimes and my sister lives over there, and I think a lot 153 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:16.600 of Americans think the same way though. So it's interesting because you know, 154 00:13:16.799 --> 00:13:20.159 just thinking about the idea of like, as you were saying, you tried 155 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:24.799 to convince yourself that it was most likely a person. But I see it 156 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:30.039 from the perspective of, well, if I were that person, I would 157 00:13:30.080 --> 00:13:33.879 be worried that the person in the tent had a gun and I shouldn't be 158 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.639 running through their camp like that. Absolutely obviously spent some time since then, 159 00:13:39.159 --> 00:13:46.639 and I've never found an exact match. But and it's bizarrely the only thing 160 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:50.799 that has even come close to the grou And you'll probably laugh at this because 161 00:13:52.879 --> 00:13:56.759 if you've ever seen the sort of the Marvel film The Incredible Hulk. Sure, 162 00:13:58.000 --> 00:14:05.120 yet where where they're going through the factory and it's all dark and you 163 00:14:05.200 --> 00:14:11.559 just hear the whole ground, yeah sort of thing. Yeah, and that 164 00:14:11.440 --> 00:14:15.840 the first time I heard that, it really center killed down my span because 165 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:18.879 I was like, that's pretty much what it was, like, That's what 166 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:22.919 it sounded like. You know. It was this deep raph grow you know, 167 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:26.720 growley, you know sort of Yeah, it did sound like a muttering, 168 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:31.519 you know, like it was you know, and that's where I started 169 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:35.279 thinking along the lines, and I don't think this was a human. But 170 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:39.559 obviously I never saw anything. I certainly wasn't going to put my head out 171 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:41.200 in the tent. And then this is the thing. I look into these 172 00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:46.120 things and I want more than anything to see one, and there in the 173 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:50.279 moment, obviously I was thinking. You know, I literally sat there frozen 174 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.039 for an hour. Yeah. Yeah, I mean so many people go through 175 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.399 that, especially in the in the Bigfoot community. You know, the idea 176 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:03.440 that everybody wants to see one so bad, but you know, until you're 177 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:07.799 in the situation, you don't really know how you're going to react. No. 178 00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.720 Absolutely, It's just strange how that that primary instinct kicks in and literally 179 00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.759 a black bear and I didn't feel any sense of alarm. You know, 180 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:20.320 I knew what to do. I stayed still, you know, didn't you 181 00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:24.000 know, didn't sort of get in its way, interact with it or anything 182 00:15:24.039 --> 00:15:26.679 like that, you know. And actually I was just like, oh wow, 183 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:31.279 a bear, you know sort of thing, and I didn't have any 184 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.639 that's a dress. It was during the day and so really kicked in, 185 00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:41.399 you know when you when you start hearing those noises and it sounded like it 186 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:43.879 was coming closer and things like that. So yeah, it was a bazire. 187 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:48.200 It was very much a biological reaction. Let me get your thoughts on 188 00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:54.240 this over, you know, I say the recent years, it's not necessarily 189 00:15:54.279 --> 00:16:00.519 recent at this point, but in the timeline of bigfoot, it's recent that 190 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:07.519 there's more and more interest and claims of bigfoot in the UK. Do you 191 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:11.679 think that's a possibility. What's going on with that? Yeah? I think 192 00:16:11.720 --> 00:16:17.399 it's I mean a lot of people dismiss it. And the thing is we 193 00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:22.879 do have we are a relatively small country, obviously, but we have we 194 00:16:22.919 --> 00:16:27.840 don't have any natural predators here and we have a completely out of kilter ecosystem. 195 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:34.639 We have a really really deer heavy population. Because there's a game you 196 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.840 know, people hunt game here. We have big private game of states and 197 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:45.519 things like that. We also have huge amounts of rural areas, you know, 198 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:51.120 We've got you know, particularly the highlands of Scotland wharf At, West 199 00:16:51.159 --> 00:16:56.399 Wales are very very rural, very desolate, you know, hard areas, 200 00:16:56.399 --> 00:17:02.159 very high mountains, you know, and walkers go missing and get killed. 201 00:17:02.360 --> 00:17:06.599 You know, it's not as we suppose. We also have, you know, 202 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.960 we do have big patches of forests right across for instance, where I 203 00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:14.920 live in the southeast, we have forests you know that go right across, 204 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.599 you know, three hundred miles to the southwest. We certainly have the habitat, 205 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:25.000 and we certainly have prey species, and there's certainly plenty of livestock up 206 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:30.119 on the fells. We have this very hardy breeder sheep called a Herdwick sheep, 207 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.920 which is you know, and again they live outdoors twenty four to seven, 208 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.400 three hundred and sixty five to days a year, no matter the conditions. 209 00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:44.519 It's very difficult for the farmers to account for all of them. They 210 00:17:44.519 --> 00:17:48.400 have such a low value in terms of cost. They don't lose any sleep 211 00:17:48.400 --> 00:17:51.960 over it. So you know, if you were a big foot and you 212 00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:56.680 know, for for instance, there was recently a report in the Hiligan Fells 213 00:17:56.680 --> 00:18:04.000 in Cumbria of a of a walker who has come across several livestock kills and 214 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:11.480 says his two dogs saw something running off or alerted to him to something big 215 00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:15.920 on two legs running away for a field. You know. So we do 216 00:18:15.079 --> 00:18:19.720 get the reports. It's completely out of the question. Particularly in Scotland, 217 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.400 Wales and a few other areas you have back and beacons, you know, 218 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:29.839 things like that, where we've got these really hilly you know, Canic Chase, 219 00:18:29.839 --> 00:18:32.759 which is a huge patch of woodland in the middle of the country. 220 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.359 We've got we've got the areas which are supporting you know, these huge amounts 221 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.559 of deer. We've also got wild boar, you know, we've got a 222 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:45.160 rabbits and hares, you know, so we've we've got plenty of food for 223 00:18:45.359 --> 00:18:48.480 them. So we've got them. Obviously, the numbers would have to be 224 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:53.039 very very small or relatively small. I don't know. I don't think we're 225 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:57.920 talking huge populations, but there's no reason they shouldn't be here and I don't 226 00:18:57.960 --> 00:19:03.039 think we should dismiss it. Uh And again, you know, across Europe 227 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.359 and the UK. We've got these legends of the wild Man, the wood 228 00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.000 rose, and you know, the green Man and certainly different legends. You 229 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.799 know, So the wood Roast is very much a wild man, a hairyman, 230 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:18.240 you know, you know sort of you know that lives in the woods. 231 00:19:18.480 --> 00:19:22.880 The green Man is more sort of a protector sort of, you know, 232 00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:27.960 being which protects the woodlands and trees and you know, you know, 233 00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:32.319 has that sort of role. But then again, you know, across you 234 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:34.599 you go to you go across to Europe, of course, and you've got 235 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:42.599 legends like the Grendel, you know, Berewolf trolls, you know, you 236 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:48.480 know, various wild mintionions which has been kept up for millennia. And obviously, 237 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:51.599 you know, to a certain extent, you know, without staking the 238 00:19:51.599 --> 00:19:55.960 fire too match that there has to be some basis there. You know, 239 00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:00.039 there are these beautiful wood carvings and etchings of wood Roast and wild men, 240 00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.480 you know, and they're obviously based on something, so I wouldn't completely dismiss 241 00:20:07.519 --> 00:20:10.480 it. And you know, and you know, of course, as we 242 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:15.759 know with big Foot legends and different sightings reportings, they are reported practically every 243 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.720 continent, you know, except Antarctica. So you know, you know, 244 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:22.559 China's got them, Russia's got them, Australia's got them. You know, 245 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:29.240 Europe's got them. You know, Canada, US, South America, they've 246 00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:34.319 all got these legends of these bipedal hairy preachers. And again we do too. 247 00:20:34.799 --> 00:20:40.039 I was going to say that, like you're talking about the distribution of 248 00:20:40.079 --> 00:20:48.920 Bigfoot legends being global, that doesn't happen very often with animals of any kind 249 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:55.079 unless they're domesticated or introduced by you know, us. For the most part, 250 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:02.160 especially whenever it comes to large mammals, you don't have any situations where 251 00:21:02.240 --> 00:21:07.599 you find them everywhere like you do Bigfoot. No, there's very few. 252 00:21:07.960 --> 00:21:11.799 I mean, like the only species I can really figure off the top of 253 00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:15.920 my head mainly marine mammals, so you feels and sea lions, you know, 254 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:22.000 for instance, in particular you know obviously, yeah, the great whales, 255 00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:26.000 killer whales for instance, top predator found pretty much at every c you 256 00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:32.839 know around the world. So yeah, so there are examples, but in 257 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:37.599 terms of land mammals, there's there's very very few, and it tends again, 258 00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:41.440 it tends to be the most adaptive. Again, one of the things 259 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.599 I would say about that is obviously is not to dismiss our influence there. 260 00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:49.960 You know, there's an awful lot of species that have that are no longer 261 00:21:51.079 --> 00:21:57.200 around because unfortunately they met us. So, for instance, big cats were 262 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:04.640 widespread across Europe. You know, Europe had a jaguar, a cheetah and 263 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:11.000 various other brig cats, you know, and you know they've all gone samely 264 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.559 Eurasian brand bear in the UK. So there were species that were more widespread 265 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:19.960 and were spread for its especially across Europe right across to the other side of 266 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:25.359 Asia. But yes, but it is interesting that that enigma when it comes 267 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:30.440 to the big that it is. It's prominent and found so much without without 268 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:37.440 too much variation, you know, across you know, you know, most 269 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:42.160 of the world. It is a global phenomenon. So let's talk about your 270 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:48.640 study into the big cat phenomenon. That is something that has always interested me 271 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:53.000 about the UK. A lot of your writings have kind of been focused on 272 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:59.880 that area. What got your interest in that and how did you really go 273 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:07.039 from a skeptic to a believer. So, yeah, I was studying zoology 274 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.079 at university. I mean, I mean we'd always had I grew up in 275 00:23:11.160 --> 00:23:15.960 the sort of the eighties and the nineties, which was very in the eighties 276 00:23:15.039 --> 00:23:21.400 mooning and that was very much for say, that was the Beast of Bodmin 277 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:30.240 and the Sarah Puna and they were regularly featured in news, newspapers, TV 278 00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:36.519 reports. There was a massive hunt which included the army, you know, 279 00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:41.640 Royal Marines and looking for the Beast of Bodmin. Yeah, so this was 280 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:47.319 something that got huge attention in the eighties and then in the late nineties when 281 00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:52.799 I was at university it was a case of I wanted to it still had 282 00:23:52.799 --> 00:23:56.000 my attention. They were still getting you know, sort of time in newspapers 283 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.599 and I thought, well, come on, this is nonsense. Is we'd 284 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.359 have seen them, you know, which is probably aligned most people who look 285 00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:10.519 into digger encryptives of probably familiar with. But I was that person at the 286 00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.359 time. So I actually made it one of my third year projects to actually 287 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:22.799 look into the possibility of them being around. And one of the places I 288 00:24:22.799 --> 00:24:26.319 started, because I was I was studying in the north of the country, 289 00:24:26.279 --> 00:24:33.640 I actually was able to get in touch with the Cheshire County Constabulary and they 290 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:42.119 had incredible infrared footage taken from a helicopter which showed a link walking along them 291 00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:48.960 six, which is a major motorway here. Again, that's footage that did 292 00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:53.480 the rounds for a long time, and then other evidence started coming up. 293 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:59.279 So, for instance, there was a woman more down this way in the 294 00:24:59.319 --> 00:25:07.559 southeast try who had said that a large black cat had tried to attack her 295 00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:12.240 own cat and got through the cat or it put its It chased the cat 296 00:25:12.240 --> 00:25:17.920 through the cat flap and as it got into the cat flap it chopped off 297 00:25:17.920 --> 00:25:22.119 one of its whiskers, and when it was tested it was confirmed to be 298 00:25:22.319 --> 00:25:29.839 that of a leopard. And there were some questions about whether it could have 299 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:33.720 possibly come from a rug something like that, but those are actually illegal in 300 00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:38.000 the UK. By then you couldn't have them, so it's unlikely. And 301 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:41.799 again there was no reason for this woman to be lying, you know, 302 00:25:41.240 --> 00:25:45.519 because again when you report these things, you are opening yourself up for ridicule, 303 00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:49.880 right, yeah, you so, because people will poke fun at you 304 00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:56.359 and you will question the likelihood of it happening, or will say that you've 305 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.319 misidentified. So for instance, again in the early two thousands, there was 306 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:11.319 a case called the sydem panther in a very big park called Crystal Palace Park 307 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:18.359 which borders this area called Sydem And you know, a bodybuilder basically went out 308 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:22.319 into his garden and rescued his cap which was being attacked by a large black 309 00:26:22.400 --> 00:26:27.720 cat, and got attacked by the cat. His daughter phoned the police, 310 00:26:27.880 --> 00:26:33.799 and the police themselves confirmed that they saw something large and black escaping from the 311 00:26:33.839 --> 00:26:40.279 rear garden. So again there's lots of these sort of you know, little 312 00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:44.200 things, you know, sort of prop up. And again it's it's the 313 00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:48.599 people. The vast majority of people who report them have they have nothing to 314 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.160 gain, they have no real interest in publicity. You know, there's there's 315 00:26:53.200 --> 00:27:00.240 plenty of photographic evidence of poor Prince. Since then again in you know, 316 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:06.079 in the last few years, it's really taken off. So the College of 317 00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:11.240 Agriculture has been doing an ongoing study of what's called a pit poof analysis. 318 00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:17.640 So they've been collecting suspect cat kills, you know, and looking at the 319 00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:22.920 damage on the bones and to see if they match up with big cat sort 320 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:26.759 of jaws. And you know, they've all that come out and officially said 321 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:30.920 that they think there are mountain lions and leopards here, you know, So 322 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:37.400 which is really interesting because the vast majority of the cats that get reported here 323 00:27:37.440 --> 00:27:41.839 are mountain lions and leopards, two of the most adaptable cats in the world. 324 00:27:42.240 --> 00:27:45.000 You know, Mountain lions are literally found from the chip of Tip of 325 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:49.079 Chili right up to Alaska. You know. Leopards are found, you know, 326 00:27:49.200 --> 00:27:55.119 from the deserts, from the deserts of Arabia right through to you know, 327 00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:59.799 the the you know, the snow snowy mountains of Russia. So really 328 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:06.200 actual cats that can cope with a huge range of habitats and landscapes, very 329 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:11.079 adaptable to their praise species. Yeah, they'll pretty much take whatever they can 330 00:28:11.119 --> 00:28:15.079 find, and they just happen to be the ones that keep sort of getting 331 00:28:15.200 --> 00:28:21.599 reported. So and again, what it all comes down to is in the 332 00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:26.519 lake. Up until nineteen seventy six, anybody could go out and own one 333 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.000 of these animals, you know, so you could go to Harod's, the 334 00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:36.000 big department store in London and you could buy you They said, there was 335 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.240 a very famous sign in their animal department that said if you can think of 336 00:28:41.279 --> 00:28:45.640 it, we can get it. Wow, you know, and they know 337 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:52.720 they would get you know, there's pictures of or four footage of you know, 338 00:28:52.839 --> 00:28:56.279 people walking leopards, you know, on a lead in London, and 339 00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:00.759 black panthers particularly which you know, which are basically just like shepherds, which 340 00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:07.200 were very popular, you know, so uh, and then what happened was 341 00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.559 that, you know, there was a couple of incidents. So one of 342 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:14.200 the things that was happening is that people were these animals wore getting into the 343 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:18.279 wrong hands. So there was, for instance, there was a scrap metal 344 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:26.119 dealer who had a lion which she used as a guard dog, and there 345 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:32.400 was uh that you know, there was an incident, you know, because 346 00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:40.400 the lion got out, and yeah, yeah, and there was These things 347 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.079 were happening a little bit, you know, more often than not, and 348 00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:48.160 you know, obviously you know, I mean there's a brilliant bit of US 349 00:29:48.200 --> 00:29:53.400 footage which shows a woman walking you know, a sub adult male lion and 350 00:29:53.599 --> 00:29:57.119 you know she she has absolutely no control over it whatsoever. She's just being 351 00:29:57.160 --> 00:30:00.240 dragged along, you know, like a husky lead team. It's fantastic. 352 00:30:02.799 --> 00:30:07.000 But basically, in nineteen seventy six, the government came in and they made 353 00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:10.400 it, you know, they made it illegal to own these animals having specific 354 00:30:10.440 --> 00:30:14.079 type of secure enclosure. You had to prove that you could feed them, 355 00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:18.559 animal welfare all that sort of stuff. And what happened was is, bizarrely, 356 00:30:19.480 --> 00:30:25.640 you know, talk about a loophole. There was nothing in the legislation 357 00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:30.960 to say people couldn't release them. Yeah, there was no legislation. There 358 00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:36.559 was no legislation saying don't loose wild animal, you know, dangerous wild animals 359 00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:41.240 into into into the worlds of England and Scotland and Wales. So what happened 360 00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:45.519 was most you know, basically there were so many of these animals that these 361 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:51.720 circuses they got throwed up really quickly. There was a very famous circus in 362 00:30:51.759 --> 00:30:56.920 the UK and it was run by a woman called Mary Chipperfield and she admits 363 00:30:56.960 --> 00:31:02.559 that she released three humors on the morals in Bodmin while she was driving to 364 00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:08.000 Dartmoor Zoo because she had more cats than she could find homes for. And 365 00:31:10.119 --> 00:31:18.000 it didn't actually become illegal until nineteen eighty before the government realized what was going 366 00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.799 on to release animals into the world. So we had this four year gap 367 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:27.880 whilst there were Goodness though how many animals being released into the wild, It's 368 00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:33.440 quite likely a lot of the died, without doubt, you know, probably 369 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.759 couldn't kill ours. A lot of them probably been deployed and things like that. 370 00:31:37.160 --> 00:31:41.440 But what is really interesting is that we know that black panthers were really 371 00:31:41.480 --> 00:31:45.960 really popular. You know, mountain lions were really popular. But basically these 372 00:31:45.000 --> 00:31:51.039 were the animals which were easiest to get hold of, and these are the 373 00:31:51.039 --> 00:31:56.000 animals that we see time and time again, you know, being reported when 374 00:31:56.039 --> 00:32:00.759 it comes to big catsitings in the UK. I never even thought that angle 375 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:07.640 before. I mean, obviously it became very popular and very trendy, especially 376 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:12.880 I would imagine with the upper class, and then the government comes in and 377 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:16.680 removes the market and says it's illegal to own one of these things. So 378 00:32:16.759 --> 00:32:22.839 obviously what are all the people going to do that had started making a living 379 00:32:22.880 --> 00:32:25.559 off this. Yeah, that makes total sense that they would just dump them 380 00:32:25.599 --> 00:32:29.400 in the wild. I mean that if you can't sell them, what else 381 00:32:29.400 --> 00:32:34.160 are you going to do? No, absolutely, and again technically it wasn't 382 00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.559 even illegal. But there was a guy up in the north of the country 383 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:46.039 who had a black leopard and a mounted line. And again there was a 384 00:32:46.039 --> 00:32:52.680 film, a documentary made last year called Compara Britannia and he yeah, this 385 00:32:52.839 --> 00:32:55.400 archives new footage he says, yeah, I had two. I took him 386 00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:00.440 up to the laws let them go. And again what's funny is that the 387 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:07.319 beast of Bodmin, which was regularly reported as being a sandy colored cat i 388 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.400 e. A mountain lion, and a black colored cat i e. A 389 00:33:09.480 --> 00:33:17.480 leopard were regularly reported traveling together. And there was a butcher in the area 390 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:27.240 who had these two cats very similar and who basically he apparently had some interesting 391 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:30.359 connections and was in a bit of trouble with the law, so he just 392 00:33:30.519 --> 00:33:35.519 let them go on Bartmore and fled the country. But those two sort of 393 00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.759 historical aspects marry up that he disappeared and these cats started killing livestock on Bartmore 394 00:33:40.920 --> 00:33:45.039 pretty much about the same time, so we think. So we think we 395 00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:49.640 pretty much know where the Beast of Dartmoor came from, or the Beast of 396 00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.599 Bobwin. But yeah, there is a fascinating and it goes back now nearly 397 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:58.759 fifty years now and people are still seeing them, you know. And what's 398 00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.000 really interesting is again a bit like the Bigfoot sightings, it all makes biological 399 00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:06.559 sense, you know, like, for instance, we're in winter now, 400 00:34:07.759 --> 00:34:13.880 there's less loguitation around the food is harder to come by, and we always 401 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:17.039 see a spike in sightings. Yeah, we see. We see more people 402 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:22.679 reporting that they've seen these things out in the wild. You know, if 403 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.960 they've you know that they've come across them in winter. So yeah, it's 404 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.880 it's it's it's one of those bizarre things, you know, if that makes 405 00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:39.960 sense zoologically and in terms of animable behavior, something that doesn't make sense zoologically. 406 00:34:40.599 --> 00:34:45.480 The dog man has become extremely popular. You have a lot more interest 407 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:53.000 in dog man creatures and growing up as a kid, the most terrifying monster 408 00:34:53.079 --> 00:35:00.679 out there was the werewolf of European lore. Absolutely. Do you have dog 409 00:35:00.800 --> 00:35:07.480 man sightings taking place over there currently? Yeah, Well it's it's interesting because 410 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:14.320 we do, and like you, I don't really know what to make of 411 00:35:14.360 --> 00:35:20.800 them, because it was interesting because when I was researching the books and so 412 00:35:21.000 --> 00:35:23.440 the big cats have got covered. That was my area in zoology, so 413 00:35:23.719 --> 00:35:29.199 I could do that big again. There's lots of people out there you can 414 00:35:29.199 --> 00:35:31.480 talk to and they'll say, yeah, okay, well there's a biological precedent. 415 00:35:31.519 --> 00:35:35.039 They're half off the records. You know, you want you want to 416 00:35:35.079 --> 00:35:37.559 relic homoed. We've got about twenty of them. You know, we can 417 00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:43.199 we can put this to go the moment I started asking questions about Okay, 418 00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:47.719 so theoretically there's this bipedal canine and when it stands up, it's hot, 419 00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:52.320 it's it's hips pop and you know things like that. You know, how 420 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.000 can we explain that biological? And you just got weird faces, you know, 421 00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:59.199 sort of looking back at you, going, well, what the hell 422 00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:01.360 are you talking about? You? But yeah, so we we do get 423 00:36:01.440 --> 00:36:07.960 dog lind sizings here there are particular they definitely seem to take on a more 424 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:16.199 spiritual stroke supernatural elements. So there are various hot spots and such. So 425 00:36:16.239 --> 00:36:23.199 again in the Highlands of Scotland around Inverness and Lockness, there are I wouldn't 426 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:29.760 say regular, but there are numerous sightings. Again going back over the last 427 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:36.599 decade or so, can chase again this big you know, Mattter Forest, 428 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:43.320 you know in the central area of the UK is renowned. You know, 429 00:36:43.400 --> 00:36:49.000 there's an area called the German Senatory Cemetery, which is where German prisoners who 430 00:36:49.000 --> 00:36:51.280 had been captured, you know, if they died over here that year, 431 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:59.119 they were buried and uh it was That place is renowned for dog man sightings 432 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.559 and again we do get them here. So there's a village near me. 433 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:09.599 I'm in the southeast in the county of Kent, and there is a village 434 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:15.400 near me called Jording where which has a rare wolf stroke dog man legend, 435 00:37:16.199 --> 00:37:22.320 you know. So yeah, it's famous for the area famous for apple production. 436 00:37:22.719 --> 00:37:29.360 And there's many orchards around Jording and there is a family there that has 437 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:37.519 uh uh a big estate with with uh these orchards. They have a sort 438 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:42.159 of you know, family property on one of the orchards which is used for 439 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:45.719 you know, sort of camping out in summer and you know, having entertainment 440 00:37:46.079 --> 00:37:51.199 sort of you know, that sort of stuff. And you know, they 441 00:37:51.599 --> 00:37:54.800 shred a report you know, a few years ago where basically they were out 442 00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:00.800 there at night. They'd been entertained for a long time and you know they've 443 00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:08.760 bedded down and they were stalked and terrorized by this thing which you know fit 444 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:14.800 all of the descriptions of the dog man, you know, throughout the night 445 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:20.239 whilst they were there, to the point where they never stayed overnight you know, 446 00:38:22.159 --> 00:38:28.519 at their under canvas ever. Again yeah, and it's yeah, so 447 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:35.840 we do get them. There is also an Irish legend which is cant the 448 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:43.679 name of the entity is, but there is this association with Irish families that 449 00:38:44.159 --> 00:38:50.599 basically there is this legend or this creature which sometimes if you're close to death 450 00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.599 or if your family is threatened, you might see this or might come across 451 00:38:54.639 --> 00:39:00.440 this creature, which is basically again it's basically a large black way wolf, 452 00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:06.760 you know, which sort of doesn't seem to do much other than make itself 453 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:12.159 known to you, but it's it's seen as noment of you know that you 454 00:39:12.199 --> 00:39:15.079 know, things aren't going to go your way for a while. I mean, 455 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:20.119 if you're seeing a werewolf or a dog man or whatever, No, 456 00:39:20.280 --> 00:39:23.639 things aren't going your way at all. No, not really no, Yes, 457 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:28.639 so yeah, we definitely get and again I think that's the thing I 458 00:39:28.679 --> 00:39:32.800 think, I think the new aspect of it is that we we obviously we've 459 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.960 obviously been calling them dog now and that's you know, that's a really few 460 00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:42.920 new town. I think if we look at it from the point of view 461 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:47.239 of the werewolf legend, you know, people you know, talking about upright 462 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:53.880 canids you know again, we're talking we're talking about going back you know centuries. 463 00:39:54.559 --> 00:40:00.480 Yeah, that was in my own studies. I mean, you know, 464 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:05.360 whenever I first got involved with Bigfoot, you didn't hear as much about 465 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:08.760 the dog man, but you did hear stories every now and then, very 466 00:40:08.880 --> 00:40:14.239 rarely, but they were there. And if you look at it from the 467 00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:21.280 angle of where wolf creatures, I mean, this is the most reported cryptid 468 00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:27.239 outside of Bigfoot. Yeah, and it has been going on forever and again, 469 00:40:28.280 --> 00:40:32.320 like Bigfoot seems to be a global phenomenon. It's not isolated to one 470 00:40:32.599 --> 00:40:39.360 location. It's all over the place, no, absolutely, and it's really 471 00:40:40.199 --> 00:40:45.079 you know, it's in again. When I was doing research for the book, 472 00:40:45.519 --> 00:40:47.840 one of the things that came across, so you know, I started 473 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:53.880 gingerly testing the waters to talking to a few Native American specialists and things like 474 00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:58.639 that, and they were very happy to talk about Bigfoot. They were not 475 00:40:58.840 --> 00:41:04.079 happy to talk about anything related to dog man at all. Why do you 476 00:41:04.119 --> 00:41:10.480 think that is just being a sort of a taboo subject. Yeah, they 477 00:41:10.719 --> 00:41:15.159 I mean they were yeah, I mean, I completely taboo or they didn't 478 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:19.760 want to talk about it. One of the things I was really really after 479 00:41:20.119 --> 00:41:23.519 was I wanted a different name for this thing other than a dog man. 480 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:28.960 Some of them even warned me about talking about it. I think, as 481 00:41:29.000 --> 00:41:31.320 you say the thing that I think there is this aspect of dread when it 482 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:35.679 consider a werewolf. And it's strange because when I was a kid, when 483 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:37.840 I'm watching a horror movie, the one I always go to a werewalth movie. 484 00:41:39.639 --> 00:41:42.840 And when I was a kid, I was terrified of werewolf movie. 485 00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:50.639 So again I think I saw American werewolf in London way too early. So 486 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:53.960 yeah, and I think there is this sort of aspect of that that that 487 00:41:54.119 --> 00:42:00.800 does a number on us psychologically. It's very different to the foot phenomenon. 488 00:42:01.760 --> 00:42:08.039 So are there other cryptids that you're interested in? My name's you know, 489 00:42:08.119 --> 00:42:13.599 how Scottish. So and we spent many you know, we used to go 490 00:42:13.679 --> 00:42:17.320 on family holidays, one to a deerth arm which was very on the shores 491 00:42:17.320 --> 00:42:22.519 of Lockness. And so again my interest in lake monsters, you know, 492 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:25.039 from from when I was a kid has kind of been there, to be 493 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:31.360 honest, you know, it's one of those things that we get. This 494 00:42:31.440 --> 00:42:35.679 is the thing once you start going down this rabbit hole in the UK, 495 00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:39.400 we've got just this proffer of of of weird stuff, you know, say, 496 00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:44.159 similar to the US, where you've got everything from you know, the 497 00:42:44.159 --> 00:42:47.760 goat mounted batsquatch, so you know, and over here we've got you know, 498 00:42:49.119 --> 00:42:54.679 particularly in Cornwall, the Southwest Wales and against Scotland. You know, 499 00:42:55.039 --> 00:43:01.119 there is this you know, you know, there is this acceptance of you 500 00:43:01.119 --> 00:43:06.079 know, for instance, the fay folk that you know, fairies, you 501 00:43:06.119 --> 00:43:09.639 know, and you know there's a lot of superstition. People won't do so 502 00:43:09.719 --> 00:43:13.400 or you know, they don't want to upset the faith folk ll you know, 503 00:43:13.519 --> 00:43:16.400 things like that. And again it's bizarre to come across when it's twenty 504 00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:20.679 twenty four, you know, and you sort of start talking. They take 505 00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:23.519 it quite seriously, and you know, I have got to the point where 506 00:43:23.559 --> 00:43:27.400 I'm like, well, who am I to question it? You know again, 507 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:31.440 it probably it's probably rooted in something. And you know, I think 508 00:43:31.519 --> 00:43:36.159 there's a lot in this world that we don't know, and I'm very happy 509 00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:43.199 to accept that. So let's talk a bit about your previous books centralizing around 510 00:43:43.320 --> 00:43:49.639 big cats. What made you decide to go that route as a topic? 511 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:55.719 It was I suppose there is a case of if you haven't found the book 512 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.320 that you want to read, write it yourself. And that pretty much is 513 00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:07.360 where it came down to kind of the age of you know, the golden 514 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:12.480 age of hunting, you know, the pastest now. So I kind of 515 00:44:12.519 --> 00:44:15.840 wanted to bring it all, you know, into one story and that that's 516 00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:20.920 what I've done. That what I call the Beast series. You're starting off 517 00:44:20.920 --> 00:44:27.079 a Shadow Beast which is based in in the Humes of Scotland. And again 518 00:44:27.119 --> 00:44:30.039 there's lots of real life you know Samons in Rogue, that the Digfoot novel. 519 00:44:30.159 --> 00:44:35.000 Yeah, there's lots of real life references in that. In Shadow Beast, 520 00:44:35.159 --> 00:44:38.760 there's lots of real life references you know in that book. As I 521 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:42.960 say, there's there's lots of stories I wanted to tell. So the second 522 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:50.039 book it features a nod of the head to what were the two most famous 523 00:44:50.079 --> 00:44:53.840 man eaters in the world, which was you know, who were immortalized you 524 00:44:53.920 --> 00:44:59.360 know in the in the Michael Douglas val Chima film The Ghost in the Darkness. 525 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:04.239 In that book where which obviously goes to Kenya where they were based. 526 00:45:04.760 --> 00:45:07.239 It's uh, you know that that it's their legacy, it's you know, 527 00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:13.840 descendants of them that have basically taken up man eating again. Uh. And 528 00:45:13.880 --> 00:45:17.920 again one of the motivations in in telling the stories is that, you know, 529 00:45:19.719 --> 00:45:22.880 man eating to a certain extent has become a story we don't like to 530 00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:29.239 tell as much. You know, obviously there is a huge emphasis on conservation 531 00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:35.000 and on our impact, you know, on the world, and you know, 532 00:45:35.079 --> 00:45:37.199 we are certainly killing these animals, you know, far far more often 533 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:43.360 than they're killing us. But there are still plenty of areas in the world 534 00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:49.280 where being picked off by an animal is a possibility, and I kind of, 535 00:45:49.400 --> 00:45:52.039 you know, dive into that a bit more. And then yeah, 536 00:45:52.400 --> 00:45:58.559 and then the third book, which is Phantom Beast, I wanted to bring 537 00:45:58.599 --> 00:46:04.480 the story to the United States, so it's all set in Wyoming, which 538 00:46:04.519 --> 00:46:07.840 is just linked to parts of the story that I told in Shadow Beast. 539 00:46:08.559 --> 00:46:14.960 But yeah, it's really a combination of those things that you know, there 540 00:46:14.960 --> 00:46:20.639 were no stories really centered around big cats their favorite. We used to have 541 00:46:20.679 --> 00:46:24.000 some really cool big cats in the UK, which we no longer have unfortunately. 542 00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.800 I just wanted to put some historical aspects on the map, you know, 543 00:46:30.679 --> 00:46:36.280 as I say, like the man Eaters of the State is still the 544 00:46:36.280 --> 00:46:39.199 only manators who have ever been mentioned in British Parliament. The stories of man 545 00:46:39.239 --> 00:46:45.639 eaters is something that always terrifies me. There was a book that I purchased 546 00:46:45.440 --> 00:46:51.960 years ago actually called Man Eaters that was just true stories of humans being attacked 547 00:46:51.960 --> 00:46:59.079 by animals, and it was absolutely terrifying. The story is especially surrounding, 548 00:47:00.079 --> 00:47:02.320 you know, it's very popular in the media. I think there's a new 549 00:47:02.320 --> 00:47:07.280 one coming out about, you know, lions attacking humans. I love all 550 00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:13.360 those movies, all those stories. I find them so terrifying though. Yeah. 551 00:47:13.519 --> 00:47:15.400 I think it's called Prey, the new one that's coming out. Yeah. 552 00:47:15.559 --> 00:47:20.880 Yeah. Nature is very, very quick and keen to prove that we 553 00:47:20.960 --> 00:47:23.559 are not top of the food chain if she gets a chance. Absolutely. 554 00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:29.159 So. Do you have any future books planned? Yeah? So, I 555 00:47:29.199 --> 00:47:32.079 mean Rogue, the sequel to Southern Rogue, you know, which is going 556 00:47:32.159 --> 00:47:39.559 to take the story down to the South to Louisiana, is in progress now, 557 00:47:39.719 --> 00:47:45.599 so right you yeah, so hopefully you know, maybe by the end 558 00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:50.519 of this year, hopefully, And there's another another, at least another book 559 00:47:50.639 --> 00:47:53.760 in the Best Series to come as well. So where can people find your 560 00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.639 books if they'd like to check them out? So every the Best Series and 561 00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:02.639 Rogue are all on Anna, either in paperback or kindle. If you're in 562 00:48:02.719 --> 00:48:07.159 the US, you can also order them. I'm fortunate we don't. I 563 00:48:07.159 --> 00:48:09.679 don't have a distributor in the UK, but I do in the US, 564 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:14.280 and so yeah, you can order over the county in most bookstores in the 565 00:48:14.400 --> 00:48:19.679 US. They're also on Audible and that the B series is unaudible on Rogue 566 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:23.400 will hopefully be on Audible by the end of April. Awesome, Luke Phillips, 567 00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:30.360 thank you so much for joining me sharing your thoughts and I've really really 568 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:34.599 enjoyed the conversation. Man oh me too. No. Yeah, all of 569 00:48:34.599 --> 00:48:38.239 my favorite cryptids in one chat, so that's fantastic. And if you've had 570 00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:43.559 an encounter with a cryptid or anything else you can't explain, send me an 571 00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:46.880 email at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfoot Crossroads 572 00:48:46.920 --> 00:48:51.159 dot com. You can find links to the social media, past episodes, 573 00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.199 merchandise, everything you need all in one place. And until next time, 574 00:48:54.280 --> 00:49:20.119 remember there's something in the woods.