Bizarrely, the only thing that has even come close to the growl. And
you'll probably laugh at this if you've ever seen the sort of the Marvel film
The Incredible Hulk where they're going through the factory and it's all dark and you
just hear the whulk growl and yeah, sort of thing. The first time
I heard that, it really killed down my spine because I was like,
that's pretty much what it was like, That's what it sounded like. Yeah,
it did sound like a muttering. And that's where I started thinking a
lot of lines, and I don't think this was a human. I look
into these things and I want more than anything to see one, and there
in the moment, obviously, I was thinking, you know, I literally
sat there frozen for an hour. This is Bigfoot Crossroads. I am Matt,
and I am joined by a very special guest, mister Luke Phillips,
author. And would it be fair to call you a zoologist? Probably it's
not completely fair to cool me because because it's not what I do for a
living anymore. But I studied oversity and I do work in wildlife conservation,
so I think you're fairly knowledgeable about the subject matters that we're going to be
covering on this episode. Your most recent book is actually a work about Bigfoot.
It's sad lead is. Yes, you had mister Sam Sharon do the
artwork for the book, and I had posted on Instagram and you reached out
to me. I had no idea you were a listener of the show.
I was pleasantly surprised to hear that, if you don't mind talk a little
bit about what the book Rogue is about and kind of talk about some of
the stories and lore that inspired the book, if you don't mind, Yeah,
of course, yeah. Yeah. It was very interesting because, yeah,
the book launched and as you say, sounded the artwork and I've listened
to a Big Crossroads for a long time, so it was wonderful to crop
up in my feed. But Rogue is pretty much a story I wanted to
tell for a long time. Sort of the monsters and the cryptis of the
world have always fascinated to be I've written books previously about the big cat phenomenon
in the UK, something I've investigated and looked at over here, but Bigfat
has always been something that's imagination from from a very young age. I'm one
of those kids whose dad let him sit down on a Sunday afternoon to watch
the Legend of Boggie Creek far too young and was kind of good, was
kind of traumatized by the hand reaching in through the windows the windows scene,
and have kind of been transfixed ever since. And obviously over the years,
I've I've heard the stories. I've spoken to people even who have very very
legitimate, you know, stand up people who think they've had experiences, obviously
primarily in the US. Lots and lots of people, you know again,
people who don't necessarily believe in these things, who have really quite significant,
you know, experiences and which you know, they see convinced us of the
experience they've had. But yeah, I suppose I just became sort of transfixed,
really because a bit like with the big cat phenomenon over here in the
UK. When I first started looking at it in the in the UK,
with the big cats, I was dead set on trying to prove that they
didn't exist, that they weren't here, that they couldn't possibly be here.
There was no ecosystems to support them or habitat or food chain. And you
know that once I started going down the rabbit hole, what happened was that
I actually went completely the other way and I committed to myself they were here.
You know, I saw evidence from police cameras and things like that that
it really stood out to me. And the same kind of happened with Bigfoot
looking at things like the Passing Good Given film. Once we started looking at
the you know, the method of locomotion, you know, so that the
factor sort of you know, the compliant gate that Bookfort has, which is
a biological adaptation which makes it a more efficient form of bipedal walking. And
again, all the clues just started falling into place that actually, perhaps we
are talking about something that's real. And of course then that gets my imagination
going, and it was they the Monster in the Woods story sort of started
coming to mind, and it has been something that's sort of been there for
a long time. Yeah, this is a bit of a love letter's a
big Foot. There's an awful lot of law and legends that you know,
sort of referenced in the book, you know, from Patterson Ginland. It's
early on, so it's not a spoiler, but the code that the sheriff
gives to you know, one of the law agencies to notify that it has
been a bigot attack. Is the anniversary date of the Patterson Goodland film,
you know, and there's I mentioned rock apes, most of the big variants
across the world. In fact, you know, sort of everything from the
Stone giants and not of war attacks, you know, in even the between
the lakes and incidents. So yeah, there's a lot in there, lots
of little Easter eggs for fans of Bigfoot. You mentioned something in an email
about sort of a possible encounter you had yourself. Could you talk about that.
Yeah, So that was back in two thousand and nine where I was
basically over on the coast of California, and I was there tracking the grey
whale migration and basically just on a bit of a road trip. It was
my first time ever in the United States. I had a few things that
I really really wanted to see. One of the things was I really wanted
to see a scrub jay and a bed that we don't get over here of
course in the UK. So I set off Palm Springs where they were known
to be. I decided I was gonna bought the quick you know, one
man, you know, sort of ten for Walmart hadn't had oft been more
Walmart because we don't have them here, and you know, it was looking
forward to it got set up and I feel, you know, I've done
lots of you know, as I said, I was study zoology, I've
done a lot of work with big animals. Yes, so I'm not I'm
not against staying in the woods. So I spend a lot of time hiking,
walking, you know, out in the woods. It wasn't too right
about that. I think the campground was called Coral Canyon, which was sort
of on the way to Palm Springs. And what I hadn't realized, because
this was in March of that year, was was A the campsite was closed
and B there had been a recent wildfire. So when I turned up there
was there was nobody there at all. So I set myself up. It
was only given me for one night. I wasn't worried, uh yeah,
but I actually went to bed quite early. There was nothing really around.
There was some owls calling, you know, nothing nothing that you know,
sort of got my you know, sort of sort of maybe worry. Went
to bed, and then during the night I was woken by something that seemed
really quite loud, and you know, at first I did think it was
a bird call, and my head was going through all sorts of different beds
sort of, I don't think that is a bird. I don't know what
that is. And I'll be honest right you know, at that time,
because it was not on my radar, it wasn't really what I was thinking
about. I was there for you know, what I can sider of real
world life. But there was quite a big, sort of booming sort of
call, which did still sound a little bit like an owl, but if
it was an how it was an eight pound out and then and then there
was a growl, which is before in California I had encountered a black bear.
So yeah, so I was like, okay, probably a bear.
The thing I take to do, which is to make yourself heard, you
know, so I said, you know, I just said, hello,
there, there's you know, there's something here. I'm here or something along
those lines. Quite cool, quite calm, wasn't worried, and then there
was just this absolute burst of h you know, it sounded like, you
know, something coming straight through the trees at me. And I thing was
basically this line like something was being dragged across the tent, and you know,
I did hear think something going thundering past, and I'm not going to
pretend I'm an expert, and no, but it did sound by peedle and
then it went absolutely dead quiet and there was no sound. There was no
favor BA calls. The area in front of me was just gravel and sand,
so you know, technically you heard it moving on or moving off from
there. It was like it it got to the edge of my tent and
then it just went absolutely quiet, and I was like, well, maybe
it's still there. So I just stayed quiet. And I stayed quiet for
about half an hour, if I'm being honest, just wondering what's going on
here. And then I thought I started thinking about what I'd seen, and
bizarrely, the thing that came to mind was the track next to the tent.
The amount of the room there was between me and the brush wasn't wasn't
huge, so it was quite a narrow gap. And I just imagined when
you're run quite fast along an hour a gap when you throw out your hand
to balance and perhaps a finger or something, you know, running you know
past you know, touching the fabric of the tents as it round past,
and I was like, okay, so I was thinking person, you know,
and again, you know, in the UK, one of the things
we don't have to worry about is people running around with guns, so that
of course crossed my mind. I was like, oh, okay, maybe
there's something out here. You know, you heard me, Okay, just
stay quiet. However, about fifteen minutes after that, so about it was
getting on for an hour after the incident, and after i'd heard anything again,
all of the Sword of the Burden eyses, you know, the nightlife
back in and I didn't sleep for the rest of the night at all.
Was on alert, and literally the moment daylight came, I sort of packed
up with tent and went, you know, as quick as I could,
if you're being honest. But I did spend most of the time convincing myself
it was a person, but it just didn't fit right because if it was
a person, they were very, very big because the the in a tent,
which wasn't a huge tent, but the finger as such was passing along
the tent overhead height. So wow, So yeah, that was that was
Yeah, that would be really unnerving. You mentioned something interesting, and it's
something I've heard a lot from people, especially in the UK, about the
way that America is perceived in gun ownership. Yes, I think it's I
think I think it's the stereotype of a bit like over here, it's always
wet and cold and we only have a drink exactly. It's kind of the
same thing. But yeah, I hate to admit it was, despite having
been Tonctress oftentimes and my sister lives over there, and I think a lot
of Americans think the same way though. So it's interesting because you know,
just thinking about the idea of like, as you were saying, you tried
to convince yourself that it was most likely a person. But I see it
from the perspective of, well, if I were that person, I would
be worried that the person in the tent had a gun and I shouldn't be
running through their camp like that. Absolutely obviously spent some time since then,
and I've never found an exact match. But and it's bizarrely the only thing
that has even come close to the grou And you'll probably laugh at this because
if you've ever seen the sort of the Marvel film The Incredible Hulk. Sure,
yet where where they're going through the factory and it's all dark and you
just hear the whole ground, yeah sort of thing. Yeah, and that
the first time I heard that, it really center killed down my span because
I was like, that's pretty much what it was, like, That's what
it sounded like. You know. It was this deep raph grow you know,
growley, you know sort of Yeah, it did sound like a muttering,
you know, like it was you know, and that's where I started
thinking along the lines, and I don't think this was a human. But
obviously I never saw anything. I certainly wasn't going to put my head out
in the tent. And then this is the thing. I look into these
things and I want more than anything to see one, and there in the
moment, obviously I was thinking. You know, I literally sat there frozen
for an hour. Yeah. Yeah, I mean so many people go through
that, especially in the in the Bigfoot community. You know, the idea
that everybody wants to see one so bad, but you know, until you're
in the situation, you don't really know how you're going to react. No.
Absolutely, It's just strange how that that primary instinct kicks in and literally
a black bear and I didn't feel any sense of alarm. You know,
I knew what to do. I stayed still, you know, didn't you
know, didn't sort of get in its way, interact with it or anything
like that, you know. And actually I was just like, oh wow,
a bear, you know sort of thing, and I didn't have any
that's a dress. It was during the day and so really kicked in,
you know when you when you start hearing those noises and it sounded like it
was coming closer and things like that. So yeah, it was a bazire.
It was very much a biological reaction. Let me get your thoughts on
this over, you know, I say the recent years, it's not necessarily
recent at this point, but in the timeline of bigfoot, it's recent that
there's more and more interest and claims of bigfoot in the UK. Do you
think that's a possibility. What's going on with that? Yeah? I think
it's I mean a lot of people dismiss it. And the thing is we
do have we are a relatively small country, obviously, but we have we
don't have any natural predators here and we have a completely out of kilter ecosystem.
We have a really really deer heavy population. Because there's a game you
know, people hunt game here. We have big private game of states and
things like that. We also have huge amounts of rural areas, you know,
We've got you know, particularly the highlands of Scotland wharf At, West
Wales are very very rural, very desolate, you know, hard areas,
very high mountains, you know, and walkers go missing and get killed.
You know, it's not as we suppose. We also have, you know,
we do have big patches of forests right across for instance, where I
live in the southeast, we have forests you know that go right across,
you know, three hundred miles to the southwest. We certainly have the habitat,
and we certainly have prey species, and there's certainly plenty of livestock up
on the fells. We have this very hardy breeder sheep called a Herdwick sheep,
which is you know, and again they live outdoors twenty four to seven,
three hundred and sixty five to days a year, no matter the conditions.
It's very difficult for the farmers to account for all of them. They
have such a low value in terms of cost. They don't lose any sleep
over it. So you know, if you were a big foot and you
know, for for instance, there was recently a report in the Hiligan Fells
in Cumbria of a of a walker who has come across several livestock kills and
says his two dogs saw something running off or alerted to him to something big
on two legs running away for a field. You know. So we do
get the reports. It's completely out of the question. Particularly in Scotland,
Wales and a few other areas you have back and beacons, you know,
things like that, where we've got these really hilly you know, Canic Chase,
which is a huge patch of woodland in the middle of the country.
We've got we've got the areas which are supporting you know, these huge amounts
of deer. We've also got wild boar, you know, we've got a
rabbits and hares, you know, so we've we've got plenty of food for
them. So we've got them. Obviously, the numbers would have to be
very very small or relatively small. I don't know. I don't think we're
talking huge populations, but there's no reason they shouldn't be here and I don't
think we should dismiss it. Uh And again, you know, across Europe
and the UK. We've got these legends of the wild Man, the wood
rose, and you know, the green Man and certainly different legends. You
know, So the wood Roast is very much a wild man, a hairyman,
you know, you know sort of you know that lives in the woods.
The green Man is more sort of a protector sort of, you know,
being which protects the woodlands and trees and you know, you know,
has that sort of role. But then again, you know, across you
you go to you go across to Europe, of course, and you've got
legends like the Grendel, you know, Berewolf trolls, you know, you
know, various wild mintionions which has been kept up for millennia. And obviously,
you know, to a certain extent, you know, without staking the
fire too match that there has to be some basis there. You know,
there are these beautiful wood carvings and etchings of wood Roast and wild men,
you know, and they're obviously based on something, so I wouldn't completely dismiss
it. And you know, and you know, of course, as we
know with big Foot legends and different sightings reportings, they are reported practically every
continent, you know, except Antarctica. So you know, you know,
China's got them, Russia's got them, Australia's got them. You know,
Europe's got them. You know, Canada, US, South America, they've
all got these legends of these bipedal hairy preachers. And again we do too.
I was going to say that, like you're talking about the distribution of
Bigfoot legends being global, that doesn't happen very often with animals of any kind
unless they're domesticated or introduced by you know, us. For the most part,
especially whenever it comes to large mammals, you don't have any situations where
you find them everywhere like you do Bigfoot. No, there's very few.
I mean, like the only species I can really figure off the top of
my head mainly marine mammals, so you feels and sea lions, you know,
for instance, in particular you know obviously, yeah, the great whales,
killer whales for instance, top predator found pretty much at every c you
know around the world. So yeah, so there are examples, but in
terms of land mammals, there's there's very very few, and it tends again,
it tends to be the most adaptive. Again, one of the things
I would say about that is obviously is not to dismiss our influence there.
You know, there's an awful lot of species that have that are no longer
around because unfortunately they met us. So, for instance, big cats were
widespread across Europe. You know, Europe had a jaguar, a cheetah and
various other brig cats, you know, and you know they've all gone samely
Eurasian brand bear in the UK. So there were species that were more widespread
and were spread for its especially across Europe right across to the other side of
Asia. But yes, but it is interesting that that enigma when it comes
to the big that it is. It's prominent and found so much without without
too much variation, you know, across you know, you know, most
of the world. It is a global phenomenon. So let's talk about your
study into the big cat phenomenon. That is something that has always interested me
about the UK. A lot of your writings have kind of been focused on
that area. What got your interest in that and how did you really go
from a skeptic to a believer. So, yeah, I was studying zoology
at university. I mean, I mean we'd always had I grew up in
the sort of the eighties and the nineties, which was very in the eighties
mooning and that was very much for say, that was the Beast of Bodmin
and the Sarah Puna and they were regularly featured in news, newspapers, TV
reports. There was a massive hunt which included the army, you know,
Royal Marines and looking for the Beast of Bodmin. Yeah, so this was
something that got huge attention in the eighties and then in the late nineties when
I was at university it was a case of I wanted to it still had
my attention. They were still getting you know, sort of time in newspapers
and I thought, well, come on, this is nonsense. Is we'd
have seen them, you know, which is probably aligned most people who look
into digger encryptives of probably familiar with. But I was that person at the
time. So I actually made it one of my third year projects to actually
look into the possibility of them being around. And one of the places I
started, because I was I was studying in the north of the country,
I actually was able to get in touch with the Cheshire County Constabulary and they
had incredible infrared footage taken from a helicopter which showed a link walking along them
six, which is a major motorway here. Again, that's footage that did
the rounds for a long time, and then other evidence started coming up.
So, for instance, there was a woman more down this way in the
southeast try who had said that a large black cat had tried to attack her
own cat and got through the cat or it put its It chased the cat
through the cat flap and as it got into the cat flap it chopped off
one of its whiskers, and when it was tested it was confirmed to be
that of a leopard. And there were some questions about whether it could have
possibly come from a rug something like that, but those are actually illegal in
the UK. By then you couldn't have them, so it's unlikely. And
again there was no reason for this woman to be lying, you know,
because again when you report these things, you are opening yourself up for ridicule,
right, yeah, you so, because people will poke fun at you
and you will question the likelihood of it happening, or will say that you've
misidentified. So for instance, again in the early two thousands, there was
a case called the sydem panther in a very big park called Crystal Palace Park
which borders this area called Sydem And you know, a bodybuilder basically went out
into his garden and rescued his cap which was being attacked by a large black
cat, and got attacked by the cat. His daughter phoned the police,
and the police themselves confirmed that they saw something large and black escaping from the
rear garden. So again there's lots of these sort of you know, little
things, you know, sort of prop up. And again it's it's the
people. The vast majority of people who report them have they have nothing to
gain, they have no real interest in publicity. You know, there's there's
plenty of photographic evidence of poor Prince. Since then again in you know,
in the last few years, it's really taken off. So the College of
Agriculture has been doing an ongoing study of what's called a pit poof analysis.
So they've been collecting suspect cat kills, you know, and looking at the
damage on the bones and to see if they match up with big cat sort
of jaws. And you know, they've all that come out and officially said
that they think there are mountain lions and leopards here, you know, So
which is really interesting because the vast majority of the cats that get reported here
are mountain lions and leopards, two of the most adaptable cats in the world.
You know, Mountain lions are literally found from the chip of Tip of
Chili right up to Alaska. You know. Leopards are found, you know,
from the deserts, from the deserts of Arabia right through to you know,
the the you know, the snow snowy mountains of Russia. So really
actual cats that can cope with a huge range of habitats and landscapes, very
adaptable to their praise species. Yeah, they'll pretty much take whatever they can
find, and they just happen to be the ones that keep sort of getting
reported. So and again, what it all comes down to is in the
lake. Up until nineteen seventy six, anybody could go out and own one
of these animals, you know, so you could go to Harod's, the
big department store in London and you could buy you They said, there was
a very famous sign in their animal department that said if you can think of
it, we can get it. Wow, you know, and they know
they would get you know, there's pictures of or four footage of you know,
people walking leopards, you know, on a lead in London, and
black panthers particularly which you know, which are basically just like shepherds, which
were very popular, you know, so uh, and then what happened was
that, you know, there was a couple of incidents. So one of
the things that was happening is that people were these animals wore getting into the
wrong hands. So there was, for instance, there was a scrap metal
dealer who had a lion which she used as a guard dog, and there
was uh that you know, there was an incident, you know, because
the lion got out, and yeah, yeah, and there was These things
were happening a little bit, you know, more often than not, and
you know, obviously you know, I mean there's a brilliant bit of US
footage which shows a woman walking you know, a sub adult male lion and
you know she she has absolutely no control over it whatsoever. She's just being
dragged along, you know, like a husky lead team. It's fantastic.
But basically, in nineteen seventy six, the government came in and they made
it, you know, they made it illegal to own these animals having specific
type of secure enclosure. You had to prove that you could feed them,
animal welfare all that sort of stuff. And what happened was is, bizarrely,
you know, talk about a loophole. There was nothing in the legislation
to say people couldn't release them. Yeah, there was no legislation. There
was no legislation saying don't loose wild animal, you know, dangerous wild animals
into into into the worlds of England and Scotland and Wales. So what happened
was most you know, basically there were so many of these animals that these
circuses they got throwed up really quickly. There was a very famous circus in
the UK and it was run by a woman called Mary Chipperfield and she admits
that she released three humors on the morals in Bodmin while she was driving to
Dartmoor Zoo because she had more cats than she could find homes for. And
it didn't actually become illegal until nineteen eighty before the government realized what was going
on to release animals into the world. So we had this four year gap
whilst there were Goodness though how many animals being released into the wild, It's
quite likely a lot of the died, without doubt, you know, probably
couldn't kill ours. A lot of them probably been deployed and things like that.
But what is really interesting is that we know that black panthers were really
really popular. You know, mountain lions were really popular. But basically these
were the animals which were easiest to get hold of, and these are the
animals that we see time and time again, you know, being reported when
it comes to big catsitings in the UK. I never even thought that angle
before. I mean, obviously it became very popular and very trendy, especially
I would imagine with the upper class, and then the government comes in and
removes the market and says it's illegal to own one of these things. So
obviously what are all the people going to do that had started making a living
off this. Yeah, that makes total sense that they would just dump them
in the wild. I mean that if you can't sell them, what else
are you going to do? No, absolutely, and again technically it wasn't
even illegal. But there was a guy up in the north of the country
who had a black leopard and a mounted line. And again there was a
film, a documentary made last year called Compara Britannia and he yeah, this
archives new footage he says, yeah, I had two. I took him
up to the laws let them go. And again what's funny is that the
beast of Bodmin, which was regularly reported as being a sandy colored cat i
e. A mountain lion, and a black colored cat i e. A
leopard were regularly reported traveling together. And there was a butcher in the area
who had these two cats very similar and who basically he apparently had some interesting
connections and was in a bit of trouble with the law, so he just
let them go on Bartmore and fled the country. But those two sort of
historical aspects marry up that he disappeared and these cats started killing livestock on Bartmore
pretty much about the same time, so we think. So we think we
pretty much know where the Beast of Dartmoor came from, or the Beast of
Bobwin. But yeah, there is a fascinating and it goes back now nearly
fifty years now and people are still seeing them, you know. And what's
really interesting is again a bit like the Bigfoot sightings, it all makes biological
sense, you know, like, for instance, we're in winter now,
there's less loguitation around the food is harder to come by, and we always
see a spike in sightings. Yeah, we see. We see more people
reporting that they've seen these things out in the wild. You know, if
they've you know that they've come across them in winter. So yeah, it's
it's it's it's one of those bizarre things, you know, if that makes
sense zoologically and in terms of animable behavior, something that doesn't make sense zoologically.
The dog man has become extremely popular. You have a lot more interest
in dog man creatures and growing up as a kid, the most terrifying monster
out there was the werewolf of European lore. Absolutely. Do you have dog
man sightings taking place over there currently? Yeah, Well it's it's interesting because
we do, and like you, I don't really know what to make of
them, because it was interesting because when I was researching the books and so
the big cats have got covered. That was my area in zoology, so
I could do that big again. There's lots of people out there you can
talk to and they'll say, yeah, okay, well there's a biological precedent.
They're half off the records. You know, you want you want to
relic homoed. We've got about twenty of them. You know, we can
we can put this to go the moment I started asking questions about Okay,
so theoretically there's this bipedal canine and when it stands up, it's hot,
it's it's hips pop and you know things like that. You know, how
can we explain that biological? And you just got weird faces, you know,
sort of looking back at you, going, well, what the hell
are you talking about? You? But yeah, so we we do get
dog lind sizings here there are particular they definitely seem to take on a more
spiritual stroke supernatural elements. So there are various hot spots and such. So
again in the Highlands of Scotland around Inverness and Lockness, there are I wouldn't
say regular, but there are numerous sightings. Again going back over the last
decade or so, can chase again this big you know, Mattter Forest,
you know in the central area of the UK is renowned. You know,
there's an area called the German Senatory Cemetery, which is where German prisoners who
had been captured, you know, if they died over here that year,
they were buried and uh it was That place is renowned for dog man sightings
and again we do get them here. So there's a village near me.
I'm in the southeast in the county of Kent, and there is a village
near me called Jording where which has a rare wolf stroke dog man legend,
you know. So yeah, it's famous for the area famous for apple production.
And there's many orchards around Jording and there is a family there that has
uh uh a big estate with with uh these orchards. They have a sort
of you know, family property on one of the orchards which is used for
you know, sort of camping out in summer and you know, having entertainment
sort of you know, that sort of stuff. And you know, they
shred a report you know, a few years ago where basically they were out
there at night. They'd been entertained for a long time and you know they've
bedded down and they were stalked and terrorized by this thing which you know fit
all of the descriptions of the dog man, you know, throughout the night
whilst they were there, to the point where they never stayed overnight you know,
at their under canvas ever. Again yeah, and it's yeah, so
we do get them. There is also an Irish legend which is cant the
name of the entity is, but there is this association with Irish families that
basically there is this legend or this creature which sometimes if you're close to death
or if your family is threatened, you might see this or might come across
this creature, which is basically again it's basically a large black way wolf,
you know, which sort of doesn't seem to do much other than make itself
known to you, but it's it's seen as noment of you know that you
know, things aren't going to go your way for a while. I mean,
if you're seeing a werewolf or a dog man or whatever, No,
things aren't going your way at all. No, not really no, Yes,
so yeah, we definitely get and again I think that's the thing I
think, I think the new aspect of it is that we we obviously we've
obviously been calling them dog now and that's you know, that's a really few
new town. I think if we look at it from the point of view
of the werewolf legend, you know, people you know, talking about upright
canids you know again, we're talking we're talking about going back you know centuries.
Yeah, that was in my own studies. I mean, you know,
whenever I first got involved with Bigfoot, you didn't hear as much about
the dog man, but you did hear stories every now and then, very
rarely, but they were there. And if you look at it from the
angle of where wolf creatures, I mean, this is the most reported cryptid
outside of Bigfoot. Yeah, and it has been going on forever and again,
like Bigfoot seems to be a global phenomenon. It's not isolated to one
location. It's all over the place, no, absolutely, and it's really
you know, it's in again. When I was doing research for the book,
one of the things that came across, so you know, I started
gingerly testing the waters to talking to a few Native American specialists and things like
that, and they were very happy to talk about Bigfoot. They were not
happy to talk about anything related to dog man at all. Why do you
think that is just being a sort of a taboo subject. Yeah, they
I mean they were yeah, I mean, I completely taboo or they didn't
want to talk about it. One of the things I was really really after
was I wanted a different name for this thing other than a dog man.
Some of them even warned me about talking about it. I think, as
you say the thing that I think there is this aspect of dread when it
consider a werewolf. And it's strange because when I was a kid, when
I'm watching a horror movie, the one I always go to a werewalth movie.
And when I was a kid, I was terrified of werewolf movie.
So again I think I saw American werewolf in London way too early. So
yeah, and I think there is this sort of aspect of that that that
does a number on us psychologically. It's very different to the foot phenomenon.
So are there other cryptids that you're interested in? My name's you know,
how Scottish. So and we spent many you know, we used to go
on family holidays, one to a deerth arm which was very on the shores
of Lockness. And so again my interest in lake monsters, you know,
from from when I was a kid has kind of been there, to be
honest, you know, it's one of those things that we get. This
is the thing once you start going down this rabbit hole in the UK,
we've got just this proffer of of of weird stuff, you know, say,
similar to the US, where you've got everything from you know, the
goat mounted batsquatch, so you know, and over here we've got you know,
particularly in Cornwall, the Southwest Wales and against Scotland. You know,
there is this you know, you know, there is this acceptance of you
know, for instance, the fay folk that you know, fairies, you
know, and you know there's a lot of superstition. People won't do so
or you know, they don't want to upset the faith folk ll you know,
things like that. And again it's bizarre to come across when it's twenty
twenty four, you know, and you sort of start talking. They take
it quite seriously, and you know, I have got to the point where
I'm like, well, who am I to question it? You know again,
it probably it's probably rooted in something. And you know, I think
there's a lot in this world that we don't know, and I'm very happy
to accept that. So let's talk a bit about your previous books centralizing around
big cats. What made you decide to go that route as a topic?
It was I suppose there is a case of if you haven't found the book
that you want to read, write it yourself. And that pretty much is
where it came down to kind of the age of you know, the golden
age of hunting, you know, the pastest now. So I kind of
wanted to bring it all, you know, into one story and that that's
what I've done. That what I call the Beast series. You're starting off
a Shadow Beast which is based in in the Humes of Scotland. And again
there's lots of real life you know Samons in Rogue, that the Digfoot novel.
Yeah, there's lots of real life references in that. In Shadow Beast,
there's lots of real life references you know in that book. As I
say, there's there's lots of stories I wanted to tell. So the second
book it features a nod of the head to what were the two most famous
man eaters in the world, which was you know, who were immortalized you
know in the in the Michael Douglas val Chima film The Ghost in the Darkness.
In that book where which obviously goes to Kenya where they were based.
It's uh, you know that that it's their legacy, it's you know,
descendants of them that have basically taken up man eating again. Uh. And
again one of the motivations in in telling the stories is that, you know,
man eating to a certain extent has become a story we don't like to
tell as much. You know, obviously there is a huge emphasis on conservation
and on our impact, you know, on the world, and you know,
we are certainly killing these animals, you know, far far more often
than they're killing us. But there are still plenty of areas in the world
where being picked off by an animal is a possibility, and I kind of,
you know, dive into that a bit more. And then yeah,
and then the third book, which is Phantom Beast, I wanted to bring
the story to the United States, so it's all set in Wyoming, which
is just linked to parts of the story that I told in Shadow Beast.
But yeah, it's really a combination of those things that you know, there
were no stories really centered around big cats their favorite. We used to have
some really cool big cats in the UK, which we no longer have unfortunately.
I just wanted to put some historical aspects on the map, you know,
as I say, like the man Eaters of the State is still the
only manators who have ever been mentioned in British Parliament. The stories of man
eaters is something that always terrifies me. There was a book that I purchased
years ago actually called Man Eaters that was just true stories of humans being attacked
by animals, and it was absolutely terrifying. The story is especially surrounding,
you know, it's very popular in the media. I think there's a new
one coming out about, you know, lions attacking humans. I love all
those movies, all those stories. I find them so terrifying though. Yeah.
I think it's called Prey, the new one that's coming out. Yeah.
Yeah. Nature is very, very quick and keen to prove that we
are not top of the food chain if she gets a chance. Absolutely.
So. Do you have any future books planned? Yeah? So, I
mean Rogue, the sequel to Southern Rogue, you know, which is going
to take the story down to the South to Louisiana, is in progress now,
so right you yeah, so hopefully you know, maybe by the end
of this year, hopefully, And there's another another, at least another book
in the Best Series to come as well. So where can people find your
books if they'd like to check them out? So every the Best Series and
Rogue are all on Anna, either in paperback or kindle. If you're in
the US, you can also order them. I'm fortunate we don't. I
don't have a distributor in the UK, but I do in the US,
and so yeah, you can order over the county in most bookstores in the
US. They're also on Audible and that the B series is unaudible on Rogue
will hopefully be on Audible by the end of April. Awesome, Luke Phillips,
thank you so much for joining me sharing your thoughts and I've really really
enjoyed the conversation. Man oh me too. No. Yeah, all of
my favorite cryptids in one chat, so that's fantastic. And if you've had
an encounter with a cryptid or anything else you can't explain, send me an
email at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out the website Bigfoot Crossroads
dot com. You can find links to the social media, past episodes,
merchandise, everything you need all in one place. And until next time,
remember there's something in the woods.