1 00:00:25,839 --> 00:00:29,719 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and 2 00:00:30,079 --> 00:00:33,960 we have a great show for you this evening and we'll be talking about that 3 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,840 in just a second. I want to thank everyone that supports the show. 4 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,799 I do appreciate that and add informations Over at podcast ufo. We also have 5 00:00:43,359 --> 00:00:47,679 a Patreon page you can check out too, and the shows are You can 6 00:00:47,679 --> 00:00:53,240 actually access shows through Patreon through their RSS feed if you support the show. 7 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:57,399 The full shows it is so if you head over to podcast ufo dot com. 8 00:00:57,399 --> 00:01:02,159 We have, by a great demand, a new merchandise store. We 9 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,120 just opened it up this morning. It's right there on the menu bar. 10 00:01:06,239 --> 00:01:08,599 We have T shirts, pullovers, tank tops, hoodies, pillows, shower 11 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:15,879 curtains, even And this was all with a wonderful graphic that Diane Cash made 12 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,200 I think two or three years ago for T shirts. Actually it was she 13 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:25,040 won the first prize in the T shirt graphics contest that I did. So 14 00:01:25,079 --> 00:01:30,040 it's a great graphics. It's a basically a triangle UFO and a beautiful night 15 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:34,319 sky looks almost like the Milky Way going through there, and then you see 16 00:01:34,359 --> 00:01:38,280 this triangle UFO. Like I said, with a single person looking down, 17 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:42,319 I think pointing up or something like that. Wonderful graphics, So check that 18 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:48,319 out now. If you go into the show notes or under this show, 19 00:01:48,719 --> 00:01:53,200 whether it's on YouTube or on my website or even in your media player, 20 00:01:53,719 --> 00:01:59,599 you will see a link to where the merchandise store is. Also, there 21 00:01:59,719 --> 00:02:02,319 is a code that's good for two weeks, just in time for Christmas. 22 00:02:02,599 --> 00:02:06,680 I'm not going to say the code, it's too long, but the code 23 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:12,280 is included also in the show notes and in the show itself text, so 24 00:02:12,319 --> 00:02:15,080 it's all right there. It's twenty percent off for two weeks, and the 25 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,879 prices are very reasonable. It's not like these are expensive in any type of 26 00:02:19,879 --> 00:02:23,639 way. They're just regular T shirt price that you see out there. I 27 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:30,159 forgot to announce last week we had a blog called UFOs and astronauts are very 28 00:02:30,159 --> 00:02:36,759 well written, very informational, and this week we have UFOs over Scotland. 29 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:43,919 So if you're new to this whole topic, there's a great amount of information 30 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:49,080 in these weekly blogs, so check that out again over at podcast ufo dot 31 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,560 com. And I want to thank Charles Lear for doing a great job with 32 00:02:52,599 --> 00:02:59,639 those I'll repeat guests tonight. He's also a personal friend and he's going to 33 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:05,840 be joined in just one minute here Chris Lambright. Chris has worked extensively in 34 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:12,759 computer technology and Internet services and has a background and graphic arts illustrations CGI and 35 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,400 holds a degree in psychology from Baylor University. He's a former investigator for the 36 00:03:17,439 --> 00:03:23,599 Center of UFO Studies and a contributor to the Computer UFO Network, and he's 37 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:29,000 also a licensed private investigator. He likes to investigate things, and that's what 38 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,120 we're going to be talking about tonight. He currently lives in Austin, Texas. 39 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:38,759 What we're going to be talking about tonight is the US Navy, it's 40 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:46,800 relation to UFOs, including the uf USS Nimitz UFO encounter, Bigelow Airspace, 41 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:52,400 in the connection between the US government and TTSA, all that good stuff. 42 00:03:53,199 --> 00:03:58,479 Chris has written a paper on this and on my website you will see a 43 00:03:58,719 --> 00:04:04,360 pdf. Currently there is the links in the UH in the pdf are not 44 00:04:04,439 --> 00:04:10,240 active. They will be UM by actually by tomorrow, so maybe by the 45 00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:13,319 time most of the people are listening to the show, those links will be 46 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:19,160 active. Because he links instead of UM doing like a summary with or footnotes. 47 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:25,040 UM A lot of things that Chris is talking about is linked live links, 48 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,000 so you can go right to those two reference and welcome to the show. 49 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:31,439 Chris. Always good talking to Martin. Nice to see you again. 50 00:04:31,439 --> 00:04:34,920 How are you good? Good? Um? You know, I've made a 51 00:04:34,959 --> 00:04:39,720 few friends along the way doing the show, and I consider you a good 52 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:46,240 one. We've gone. I can't remember the first time you were I think 53 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,319 there's two twelve or I had heard you on Coast to Coast. Um, 54 00:04:50,959 --> 00:04:55,439 I think back in two thou twelve and I contacted you were gracious enough to 55 00:04:55,439 --> 00:04:58,639 come on and when we've been basically in touch ever since. We talked on 56 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,199 the phone a lot and it's it's been it's been good. And we have 57 00:05:01,199 --> 00:05:08,720 a mutual friend, Ray Stanford. Always interesting talking to him and the things 58 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:14,839 that he has done. We're supporting him and it's an amazing world that he's 59 00:05:14,879 --> 00:05:16,680 in, isn't it. I mean, what he's uncovered in the dinosaur world 60 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,600 is just a I talked to him this morning and he had a close call 61 00:05:20,759 --> 00:05:24,480 last week. It was almost all over. He told me about a car 62 00:05:24,519 --> 00:05:27,000 accident. Somebody who ran a stop sign, took the front end of his 63 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:30,519 car off with his wife and it and pushed him up against a tree. 64 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:34,680 It was close. He's okay. So I was like, both of them, 65 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,199 Yeah, well that's good. Wow they got a new here then, 66 00:05:38,399 --> 00:05:43,439 so yeah, a new car out of it. So Chris, for the 67 00:05:43,519 --> 00:05:46,759 person I kind of just gave your background. But for the person that's this 68 00:05:46,959 --> 00:05:50,519 first time hearing you can you give them, you know, kind of a 69 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:57,360 nutshell of what got you interested in this topic to begin with. That's a 70 00:05:57,399 --> 00:05:59,600 good one. I mean, I can go all the way back to even 71 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,199 and I guess I was in high school or junior high school and being interested 72 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:09,399 and vaguely remember going to a conference in Kansas City and passing Alan Heinick just 73 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:12,759 I had no idea who he was and I was a nobody. I grew 74 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,720 up in Indonesia. My parents had an experience when we were over there back 75 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,279 in the late fifties that I didn't even find out about until years later. 76 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:25,519 But somewhere between that and my college years, and especially by the last year 77 00:06:25,519 --> 00:06:30,040 of college, when I took a really interesting course in parapsychology and led to 78 00:06:30,079 --> 00:06:32,399 other things, got me to read up a lot about how put Off and 79 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:39,879 always been impressed with him and my friend Tommy Boan and and after that it 80 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:45,279 just things seemed to snowball, and somewhere along the way through through tom especially, 81 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:46,920 you know, I got to know Alan Heinick, and for a little 82 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,920 while before he passed away, I did some things with a center. Few 83 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,639 of our studies sent a few reports in, but for the most part, 84 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:00,360 it seems to be a lot of people. It's kind of independent interests and 85 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,399 trying to step carefully and not make the wrong step and try to follow the 86 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:06,959 leads where they go, and that seems to be a lot. That's actually 87 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,480 what originated this entire paper, which I wrote a list of questions I began 88 00:07:12,519 --> 00:07:15,439 to have on my own and just started following those and that ended up with 89 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:18,680 this and then I sent it to you and here we are. Yeah, 90 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,160 it wasn't the plan. I promise you it wasn't the plan. Well, 91 00:07:23,439 --> 00:07:27,199 you know, you do raise some interesting questions. We'll go over them tonight, 92 00:07:28,279 --> 00:07:30,759 whether there'll be answers out there or not. We also are going to 93 00:07:30,839 --> 00:07:33,839 have a call in so you know, during the second hour. So if 94 00:07:33,839 --> 00:07:38,680 people have read the pdf, it's actually right now. If you go on 95 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:43,800 podcast ufo dot com, it's if people are watching the show there, which 96 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:48,000 the YouTube is embedded there. You'll see the pdf down below. It's twenty 97 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:54,480 two pages long and a lot of really good points. What has your feedback 98 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:59,040 been like? You've passed it around a little bit well, as you know, 99 00:08:00,079 --> 00:08:01,759 month ago, about at the end of October, I had come up 100 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,319 with the first I guess it was about nineteen pages, a little bit less 101 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:09,639 at the time, and it was just a rough draft. And even at 102 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:13,399 this point it's not something I wrote with a purpose to publish or whatnot. 103 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,759 It was a rough draft and I sent it to you a handful of others 104 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:22,720 Joe Mergia and I'm David Batty and basically just said, hey, if I've 105 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:24,680 got something wrong, tell me, you know that sort of thing, give 106 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:30,000 me any feedback, And I got some nice response from Dave on it. 107 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,360 I understand there's a point I'll make here in a minute that you brought up 108 00:08:31,399 --> 00:08:37,759 earlier, and not much else. People were nice enough, but I guess 109 00:08:37,759 --> 00:08:41,639 if it's a draft, I didn't. I did send it to Title Rogue 110 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:46,919 away, and just because the point was the people who have put things out 111 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,080 there that helped me, I would felt at least, you know, I 112 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,240 can obliged to give them the heads up on it and send it to them 113 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,120 and let them take a look at it. But for the most part didn't 114 00:08:56,159 --> 00:08:58,720 get a lot of feedback. There were some questions that I had, and 115 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,679 Dave Baty was helpful that way, and Tim McMillan, who worked with him, 116 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:11,120 were helpful that way. But then it was the question you raised that 117 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,559 really got me thinking. And it was when you it was this some of 118 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:20,000 my interests began to revolve around the question of Douglas Kurth and what he saw 119 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,519 and what Dave Fraver saw, and why the two didn't seem to the descriptions 120 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,759 seemed to vary a good bit. And then when you wrote me back and 121 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:33,039 said, how do we know what Douglas Curse saw is what Dave Fraver saw? 122 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,200 And for some reason that hit me. It just I just realized, 123 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,679 right then, you know, we're all presuming that what we're being told is 124 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:46,480 the way it is. And wow, that set me off on a whole 125 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:50,240 different path of looking at facts. I spent a long time. I wrote 126 00:09:50,279 --> 00:09:54,960 to the pilots, asking questions about which aircraft, who flew what. Did 127 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,759 a lot of research when all the way back found some of the early things 128 00:09:58,799 --> 00:10:03,039 that Kevin Day had written, and even all the way back to where the 129 00:10:03,039 --> 00:10:07,080 original Flair video had been posted in two thousand and seven, and not many 130 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,840 people are aware that a little later in that post, there's a what it 131 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:16,320 basically seems like a page or so out of a log file that describes the 132 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:22,559 pilots that went out. It's an event summary, and that began to and 133 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:26,559 especially even in the executive summary, if you look at the times, I 134 00:10:26,639 --> 00:10:33,200 began to realize quite a minute, Douglas Curth was out an hour and a 135 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:37,120 half or two hours before David Fraverer claims he launched. Fraver is known for 136 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,679 saying all the time they left between twelve and one, somewhere in that time 137 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,759 frame, and even is a wing man or the pivot Alex Dietrich had has 138 00:10:46,759 --> 00:10:52,360 stated that they left some time noon or after. But even in the executive 139 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,960 summary where it talks about Douglas course outing, he was out there initially doing 140 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,720 a post flight maintenance or post its flight check, something to that effect, 141 00:11:01,279 --> 00:11:07,519 which struck me because that's not what David Fraber initial initially says. They were 142 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:11,919 doing a air defense exercises, a two v two two planes fighting against two 143 00:11:11,919 --> 00:11:18,120 others, And I compare that with the article that was written by Paco Chierici 144 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,519 in twenty fifteen. It seemed to be the main source where a lot of 145 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:26,200 this got started, and maybe even where Robert Poll got started. And even 146 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:31,720 he says that Douglas Kurth was doing a post maintenance flight check. But they 147 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:35,440 both seemed to suggest that Kurth went out there, saw this three hundred foot 148 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,039 disturbance in the water one hundred fiftywo hundred meters, but then they told him 149 00:11:41,039 --> 00:11:46,120 to skip it, and you're like that he was already right there, and 150 00:11:46,159 --> 00:11:50,159 he actually says he flew right over it. Then he says he saw Fraber 151 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:54,000 coming in, and Fraver claims he saw this cross shaped thing under the water. 152 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,879 But if you'll remember in the original paper, I pretty well stopped fair 153 00:11:58,039 --> 00:12:01,840 because it was Douglas Curth saying he looked back and saw the disturbance had disappeared. 154 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,919 But it didn't disappear in Fravor's story until after Favor had his encounter. 155 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:13,240 So there was a conflict right there. How could it be gone unless Douglas 156 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,360 Kurth was right on top of it the whole time. Now, I don't 157 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,919 think even that's the case, because I think Kurth must have been out there 158 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:26,039 earlier, perhaps by himself originally because his flight number, and in the PDF, 159 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:28,519 I go into all of this, and even at the very end there's 160 00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:33,399 a photograph that I found showing Curse plane with his flight number with a plane 161 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,159 number on it and his name printed. But that's not one of the two 162 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,159 flights that were supposed. We went out when Fravor went out. So the 163 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:45,639 whole paper began just these conflicts that didn't add up. And one of the 164 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:48,039 points that you mentioned it earlier that I guess I want to say up front 165 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,639 to kind of hit everybody off at the past, is the comment has been 166 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,799 made. Reading the paper, it's hard to know where where I'm going. 167 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,639 But that wasn't why I started writing. It was just pure analysis. I 168 00:13:00,759 --> 00:13:03,159 was just hit an a domino and following it where it went. So I 169 00:13:03,279 --> 00:13:09,679 understand that if you're looking for me to reach a point and tell you a 170 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:13,879 given conclusion, this is what the fact is. Well read it in the 171 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,720 sections and understand the questions, because if my aim is to get a lot 172 00:13:18,759 --> 00:13:22,360 more questions raised, and in fact, I have a quote I found this 173 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,840 even this morning that says, we don't know the answers, but we have 174 00:13:24,919 --> 00:13:28,960 plenty of evidence to support the questions. And that's a quote from Harry Reid 175 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,799 when he originally came out and admitted that he had backed the A Tip project, 176 00:13:33,399 --> 00:13:37,799 And that's kind of my point. The point is there's things that don't 177 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:41,120 add up, and there are questions I have. I hope we have good 178 00:13:41,159 --> 00:13:45,039 answers. I mean, I want to have faith in the paper starts with 179 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,200 the idea that you know, we all are hopeful for what to the Stars 180 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:50,559 wants and what they professed to be about and what they're claiming they're going to 181 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,519 do. Frankly, I know somebody's going to ask me what I think. 182 00:13:54,519 --> 00:13:58,519 And this whole thing is looking a lot more like an opt to me, 183 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:03,480 like there's something else what's going on, because we're getting a narrative with Fraver's 184 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:07,480 one story, and there are aspects of even things Kevin Day wrote back in 185 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:13,440 twenty ten that don't match Fav's story or even Curth's story that seemed like a 186 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:18,840 completely third encounter with somebody engaging an object up at twenty thousand feet that shot 187 00:14:18,919 --> 00:14:22,879 right down into the water, and when the pilot flew away, it shot 188 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,480 right back out and went on its merry way. That's practically quote. And 189 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:33,279 I'm like, so, how many encounters were there? And it's just not 190 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:35,840 adding up. I mean, things are not adding up the way it was. 191 00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:37,600 Of course this started with me was how Kurth ended up at Big Low 192 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:41,799 Aerospace in two thousand and seven before any other name seemed to have appeared. 193 00:14:43,279 --> 00:14:48,200 The pilot who was there starts working at Big Low Aerospace, and he wanted 194 00:14:48,279 --> 00:14:50,759 I did, right, I did reach out to Douglas Kurth and he was 195 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,480 nice enough to reply. But of course he's says anything that he had to 196 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,879 say has already been published in Good Luck, so he doesn't want to talk 197 00:14:58,919 --> 00:15:01,039 and which of course is an interesting to me as well. But yeah, 198 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:05,679 well, you know, there's you know, two two things right off the 199 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,519 bat. I want to say, first of all, Um, I think 200 00:15:07,759 --> 00:15:11,440 Kevin Day is and I do believe you feel the same way as totally credible. 201 00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:16,000 I also feel David Fraver is credible, but they do. There is 202 00:15:16,039 --> 00:15:18,840 a little bit of conflict there. M you know, there was obvious at 203 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:22,960 a conference, um you know several months back, and UM that there's a 204 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:31,240 little bit of conflict of uh, you know, what one person is speculating 205 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,519 over another. Mostly I want to say, David Fraverer, has you know 206 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:41,759 speculated um that uh you know, other people don't know um that actually do 207 00:15:41,039 --> 00:15:43,720 you know? For instance, Kevin Day? But um, you know, 208 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:46,960 I have some questions I'm going to throw at you to get your opinion as 209 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:50,399 we go along here, But if you would, and kind of a nutshell, 210 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:56,960 can you tell us basically what we're going to be covering tonight besides you 211 00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,320 know the Nimits. Yeah, sure, you're you're touching on a lot of 212 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,320 the different things I know we're going to talk about. But there were basically, 213 00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:07,679 yeah, there were basically four sections to this paper that I broke it 214 00:16:07,759 --> 00:16:11,799 down into. The First one was just questions on this Nimits narrative because of 215 00:16:11,799 --> 00:16:15,679 the conflicts that even initially I was seeing somehow, you know, the two 216 00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:19,720 things can't seem to be right or they seemed to have big discrepancies. A 217 00:16:19,919 --> 00:16:25,480 second, it's questions on a Navy I think the way I worded it was 218 00:16:25,559 --> 00:16:32,279 a Navy investigation behind os APP and a tip because I think there's undeniable indications, 219 00:16:32,399 --> 00:16:34,320 especially because and I've documented it. Some things. Eric has said some 220 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:40,799 things. Pacocier Ici has now said that there was an ONI investigation that went 221 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:45,240 on, and in fact, the person who originally wrote the executive some reary 222 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,879 the classified version or the original investigation was a GS fifteen with O and I. 223 00:16:49,399 --> 00:16:53,080 But if this was long before OSAP and a tip came out, then 224 00:16:53,159 --> 00:16:56,679 there's and that was actually one of the things that started in the set of 225 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,720 questions I wrote to myself was and it's in the beginning of the paper, 226 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:03,960 is you look at these things, and it's hard not to think that the 227 00:17:04,079 --> 00:17:07,839 Navy is some kind of a silent backer or a silent player in all of 228 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:14,279 this, because it allowed was Onder to take the videos and resign and immediately 229 00:17:14,319 --> 00:17:18,240 go to work to the stars and use those videos as promotional material no consequences 230 00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:23,359 that always seen. You've got the Navy changing some of their pilot reporting policies, 231 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,200 You've got a lot of these things happening. There's even a comment how 232 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:33,519 put out and I think in his sc conference where he says that these Navy 233 00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:37,720 pilots were permitted to speak, well, it's a kind of an unusual way 234 00:17:37,759 --> 00:17:41,960 to say it. If they're supposed to be retired citizens. They able to 235 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:47,799 do what they please and feel like speaking anyway. The third section was kind 236 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:52,119 of interesting to me as well me personally, because it was the idea of 237 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,400 how did the DeLong situation which started out with kind of in the wiki leaks 238 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:02,319 and his meeting the people at Lockheed, end up with him with the Two 239 00:18:02,319 --> 00:18:06,559 the Stars, because there's a gap in there which there doesn't seem to be 240 00:18:06,599 --> 00:18:10,440 a connection the people he originally was writing out that he first met and suddenly 241 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,279 now he's co founding Two the Stars with how put Off and Jim Simmivan. 242 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:19,279 And so that was more of an intriguing little analysis in there, and I 243 00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,559 think from what my opinion at this point is that Kick Green played a hand 244 00:18:23,599 --> 00:18:27,400 in that, because I don't know how the connection was made there, but 245 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,559 a description sounds a lot like him. And then, of course, the 246 00:18:32,559 --> 00:18:36,559 final, maybe the shorter section on this was why a Two the Stars after 247 00:18:36,599 --> 00:18:41,079 all of that? Why create a Two the Stars Academy? If you're going 248 00:18:41,079 --> 00:18:44,599 to do a Navy investigation, if you're going to be investigating all of this 249 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,720 sort of thing, why the same kind of many of the same names at 250 00:18:49,799 --> 00:18:55,319 least that were in the big low aerospace the bass kind of arrangement, and 251 00:18:55,400 --> 00:19:00,599 have carried through all of this why a lot. You're right, these are 252 00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:02,880 people that I have had a lot of respect for. I've read about for 253 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,000 years. I mean, oddly enough, I looked a little bit at Stephen 254 00:19:06,079 --> 00:19:08,359 Justice. This is a brilliant guy. I mean, like his designs, 255 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:15,880 he's visual a heck of a thing. To practically retire from all those years 256 00:19:15,880 --> 00:19:18,880 at Lockheed the month before you suddenly show up on stage with two of the 257 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:25,400 stars. You know, my impression originally was they've got something. I don't 258 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,200 know what, but they've already got something. And now I think probably the 259 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:33,400 officer of the Secretary of Defense is helping them because of something stated in that 260 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,160 krada, that Army krada that was put out there about some of the materials 261 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:41,759 that they've got. But but so it's basically was these four different sections that 262 00:19:41,759 --> 00:19:47,079 the questions I had eventually led me to really be focusing on. And and 263 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:52,359 it's simply to raise questions to ask you go out and get the answers that 264 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,240 we want. I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm not against anybody. 265 00:19:56,839 --> 00:19:59,200 I just I laughed at myself because I may I mention this to you. 266 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,279 This is like somebody wants you to buy a car invest money in it, 267 00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:07,799 Well, you should ask for the carfax, and you should they should expect 268 00:20:07,839 --> 00:20:11,240 you're going to ask for it these days, they should just have it ready, 269 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,759 be upfront about it. So when you begin to get their feeling that 270 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,799 the stories aren't tying together and things you might want to know, they don't 271 00:20:18,799 --> 00:20:22,880 want to talk to you, you know, which sadly after the end of 272 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,640 the first paper you wrote me the question about to the Stars is not being 273 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:32,839 inclusive of those in the UFO community. And some of the recent comments that 274 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:37,079 came out on Grant Cameron show them talking to Melinda Leslie about Jim sum Evan 275 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,400 saying nope, they want to talk to You're not interested. Okay, it's 276 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:47,079 their company, but they're looking for people to invest money, and they're certainly 277 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,960 going on the talk show circuits and going out to the conferences and talking to 278 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:56,119 the UFO community and wanting input through their Vault app that they're going to be 279 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:02,799 making. So it seems to me, yeah, you know a little more, 280 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,039 a little more upfront with some of the information and explaining some of these 281 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:10,880 conflicts. I would like to just have explanations to put my own mind at 282 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,480 ease, right hopefully that everything's okay and everything's on the up and up. 283 00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:17,400 Yeah, yeah we can. We can all hope for that. I had 284 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:23,880 thought that Tom Delong's sister, who was the publicist for ttsa UM. I 285 00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:29,279 was thinking that she, you know, perhaps maybe she had not had a 286 00:21:29,319 --> 00:21:33,680 background in and uh in this this type of thing, and they researched her. 287 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:37,720 I think it's carry maybe I believe, I think, but but she 288 00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:42,319 has she has a background in doing what she's doing. So because I've been 289 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:48,880 kind of surprised that there hasn't been a lot of you know, connectivity when 290 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:55,480 someone like myself or someone that has a really good show or UM you know 291 00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:59,920 that tries to you know, keep on the up and up, UM contacts 292 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:03,079 them, you know, they're generally not replying, you know, and but 293 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:11,440 they use we can be used as a tool when needed. That's kind of 294 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,720 how it feels in some ways. I'm not. It was something something I 295 00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:18,000 read the other day, but I wish I could remember who it was, 296 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,240 because I am it's important to me to give credit to all these other people 297 00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:25,000 who've done all this good work that has helped all of us keep on top 298 00:22:25,039 --> 00:22:26,559 of things. But the comment was something to the effect that, you know, 299 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,440 David Fraver only talks to George and Napp and Jeremy Corbell and somebody else 300 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,359 only talks you know, Jim Simmovan only talks to Wellenda Leslie and whomever. 301 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,000 And it's like, you're right, you want to get them on your show, 302 00:22:38,039 --> 00:22:44,559 and only specific audiences are they seemingly willing to talk to. I mean 303 00:22:44,599 --> 00:22:48,480 I, as I said, I reached out to a couple of the pilots 304 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:52,640 that I was confined, and generally they were nice, but not talkative, 305 00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:56,720 not wanting to answer questions. You know, Fravers seems to be willing to 306 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:02,920 say just about everything, but most of the others are pretty tight lipped or 307 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:04,039 don't want to say anything, or don't want to talk at all. And 308 00:23:04,079 --> 00:23:08,079 I would think, if you're really trying to promote this as an why not 309 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:11,160 have Kurt on the show with Fever. You think, here's a guy who 310 00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,279 went to work at big Ole Aerospace would be a huge proponent to back all 311 00:23:15,319 --> 00:23:19,359 of this information up, could explain his involvement, But I don't know. 312 00:23:19,480 --> 00:23:25,640 For some reason. It seems to be very tailored the way the narrative is 313 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:30,119 going, and that's my concern. I don't really know why bothers me when 314 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,880 somebody won't tell you things that you want to know, and if if I 315 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:37,000 get it wrong. I reached out and tried to ask questions and wanted to 316 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,759 send them stuff to see what they have to say. And I'm not saying 317 00:23:40,759 --> 00:23:44,680 I'm going to get everything right, but I don't think I can be held 318 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:48,920 totally accountable if I've made some errors or some mistakes, because these are just 319 00:23:48,079 --> 00:23:52,279 questions, and I think people should ask, but I think everybody should be 320 00:23:52,319 --> 00:23:56,000 looking at them because something doesn't add up. Well, the thing that you 321 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:02,319 kind of uncovered or I actually have I believe I've seen it before, or 322 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,680 maybe I followed what you wrote. But is it Paco? Is that how 323 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,920 you say his name? I think it's Poco. I think Paco Chierici. 324 00:24:10,319 --> 00:24:18,480 That's my partna Poco. He was given a classified document and was able to 325 00:24:18,599 --> 00:24:21,880 use it to write his article and they had to turn back to me. 326 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,160 That seems like the biggest question of them all to me. Well, and 327 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:29,279 that's why it's the first big, main, big type lead at the top 328 00:24:29,279 --> 00:24:33,519 of this thing, because that stunned me back in October when I was doing 329 00:24:33,559 --> 00:24:37,240 all of this research, and this was in the first paper that I sent 330 00:24:37,319 --> 00:24:41,559 to you, and Dave Beatty and toadar rug Away and Joe Mergia and Danny 331 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,960 Silva and a few of those that I laughed when I told you. I 332 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,440 said, it's one of the advantages of being able to sit here all day 333 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:56,759 and just look for things that I happened to come across another podcast by another 334 00:24:56,839 --> 00:24:59,960 guy. I guess it was a fighter pilot podcast, you know, Alpha 335 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,759 the person, the whole whatever personalities, and he had to Pacucci Reachi on 336 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:07,720 there, and they spent the longest time talking about all this cool stuff, 337 00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:10,559 you know, pilot stuff. You know, I've always been impressed. It 338 00:25:10,599 --> 00:25:14,119 amazes me. These pilots are a bunch of tall, good looking guys and 339 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,559 they're just an amazing fighter pilot materia. Yeah, and they're amazing. But 340 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,759 you know what, Chris, I'm sorry, I got you leaded and led 341 00:25:21,799 --> 00:25:23,920 you into this question and we have to go into a break. So we're 342 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:27,160 going to pick it up right here when we come back. So this is 343 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,079 Martin Willis with Chris Lambright and we'll be right back right after these messages. 344 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,680 So for right now, we've got to you know, three minutes on YouTube 345 00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:45,359 only, and so we'll we'll bring up something else. Can you go over 346 00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:51,920 basically your book X to sending for those who may not be aware of it. 347 00:25:52,079 --> 00:25:55,319 Yeah, it'll be a nice kind of a little aside thing, because 348 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,799 if people really do wonder why I cared to dig into all of this, 349 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:03,400 a lot of it proudly did stem from that episode of Unidentified where they talked 350 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,359 about the Kirtland Air Force space incidents, which was clearly the Paul Benowitz story. 351 00:26:08,079 --> 00:26:12,000 That never mentioned his name or anything. And the point was I knew 352 00:26:12,039 --> 00:26:15,559 a little bit about that and Paul Benowitz. Of course, the whole issue 353 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,960 was he was a man and had a successful company and lived in the nice 354 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:25,240 part of Albuquerque, and had had an interest in things that were going on 355 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,279 up in the northern New Mexico Dulcie area. This is back in the late 356 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:34,759 seventy nine to late nineteen seventy nine, and at some point, long story 357 00:26:34,839 --> 00:26:40,519 short, was on the roof of his house and happened to see some things 358 00:26:40,599 --> 00:26:45,400 take coming and taken off from out of the Manzana Weapon stage area. So 359 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,960 he had some good camera equipment hassiblad camera, another one mounted on a telescope, 360 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,920 and over a period of several nights from his roof he got film and 361 00:26:55,039 --> 00:27:02,119 still shots of these objects that would on the mountain nights out and one time 362 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,079 the mountain down lights out in five seconds. So these are very very fast 363 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,039 objects. And even at one point his wife was out there and he said, 364 00:27:10,039 --> 00:27:11,160 get ready, here they go, and they took off and shot down 365 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,920 around the end of the mountains. He had all this on film and somewhere 366 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,160 in around January, I guess when he got the film developed or whatnot, 367 00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:23,359 is when he finally picked up the phone and called down to the base at 368 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,920 Kurtland and got first he got in touch with Ernest Edwards, who then put 369 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,680 him in touch with Richard Doughty. So for anybody who wonders this is where 370 00:27:30,799 --> 00:27:34,680 Richard Doughty's name came into all of this is because he happened to be the 371 00:27:34,759 --> 00:27:38,240 person on the other end of the phone who talked to Paul Benowitz. But 372 00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:42,759 what started at all was these films. It wasn't picking up signals from the 373 00:27:42,799 --> 00:27:47,440 base, which is the whole story. That they tried to sell. The 374 00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:52,200 idea is Paul saw some things. And here's also one point to be made, 375 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:57,519 why forty years later, almost would they still be trying to push the 376 00:27:57,559 --> 00:28:00,200 issue of none and it was nothing to It was just Russians. It was 377 00:28:00,599 --> 00:28:03,920 whatever else Dody would be out there. I've had that question asked. It's 378 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:08,519 a fair question. Why still keep piling on to try to keep the story 379 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,720 buried? And I didn't appreciate the way it was presented in that episode of 380 00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:17,440 Undentified and the way they tried to demean Paul. It's all clear. I 381 00:28:17,519 --> 00:28:19,079 wrote a little section at the end of this paper for anyone who wants to 382 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,920 know, you know why it mattered to me that I'll fill in that kind 383 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:30,839 of information and anyway. So that's the That's the book X Descending, which 384 00:28:30,839 --> 00:28:36,200 actually covers two films, the ones Paul took and two amazing incredible films that 385 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,519 Ray took that both of them tied back into the Air Force research lab. 386 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:45,039 So the book is about those films. Race, we're ready to go back 387 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:52,160 in. Well, it's over three minutes. Race you there, We're ready 388 00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:56,039 to go live. I'm here, my brother stand by, and I'll count 389 00:28:56,119 --> 00:29:02,880 you down. All right. I was over here on another computer getting everything 390 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,240 sorted for the phone calls. I had a phone call already coming in. 391 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,480 Oh geez, I gotta get ready for that over here too. Oh good. 392 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:18,400 Here, let me oops stack, I gotta get the signed in now, 393 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:25,200 so that I'm ready. Okay, I'm in okay, and we've got 394 00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,640 bumper Roland And if you're ready, my brother, I'll go ahead and get 395 00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:36,680 us going. Yeah, we're ready in five four three two. All right, 396 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:40,640 welcome back. This is Martin Willis and I have Chris Lambright. We're 397 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,839 here on podcast. You a folk. Chris, I made a note of 398 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,680 where we ended, and you know, I looked down. I can't read. 399 00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,279 I wrote it with my left hand. I can't read my own writing. 400 00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:56,240 So we're basically talking about I think you're mentioning a pilot. Yeah. 401 00:29:56,279 --> 00:30:02,039 It was po Poco's comments that he made at the tail end of this other 402 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:07,559 podcast, in which at that point the host of the other podcast said, 403 00:30:07,559 --> 00:30:10,680 Okay, I have to ask you about the article, the twenty fifteen article 404 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,000 or the X Files edition terrific article. If anybody hasn't read it, to 405 00:30:14,079 --> 00:30:18,240 go find that, and he meant he brought it up, and Paco began 406 00:30:18,559 --> 00:30:25,240 talking about it, and that's when he says he talked to Fraver and when 407 00:30:25,279 --> 00:30:26,640 he called him to ask about writing it, and Fraver said, what a 408 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:33,400 coincidence. They just left my house and they're doing this investigation. And Paco 409 00:30:33,559 --> 00:30:37,440 says he got a copy of this. I believe the way he worded it 410 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:45,720 was exhaustive classified report, and he said they interviewed everybody. Right. I 411 00:30:45,799 --> 00:30:49,160 don't know how long the report was, but it was several pages. I 412 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,119 mean, I'm not saying fifteen twenty pages long, but I do remember him 413 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:59,880 explicitly stating it was an exhaustive classified report where they talked to the pilots, 414 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,960 the radar operators, the submarine. I'm like, whoa, and that's when 415 00:31:04,039 --> 00:31:07,720 he says, yeah. And I had it for two weeks before I wrote 416 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:11,359 my report, and then I had to give it back and I had never 417 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,400 heard that. I'm like, wait a minute, now, there's clear evidence 418 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,359 that somebody has done some kind of investigation. That was a classified one that 419 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,240 he got to and of course I did add it at the very last year. 420 00:31:22,319 --> 00:31:26,559 The other day, he's now actually come out on another podcast and just 421 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:30,440 addressed this whole thing, talking about how I think Dave Beatty, after I 422 00:31:30,519 --> 00:31:34,680 wrote him and sent him the paper last in October, wrote me and asked 423 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,880 me about that, and he said he's gonna put Poco. And that's when 424 00:31:40,279 --> 00:31:42,480 apparently Poco wrote him back and said, yeah, he doesn't want to tell 425 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:47,559 him where he got the report, but asked Dave, asked Faver. And 426 00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:51,720 subsequently Poco has come out and said it was an O and I investigation, 427 00:31:52,079 --> 00:31:56,039 although now he kind of says, well, I'm thinking maybe it was an 428 00:31:56,119 --> 00:32:04,960 a tip a tip in twenty thirteen from what we've been told seventeen R Well, 429 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,119 this is twenty fifth. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Twenty fifteen is 430 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:12,279 when he wrote his article in the March of twenty fifteen, which in fact 431 00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:16,720 was obviously even a little few months, so to speak, before Don DeLong 432 00:32:16,799 --> 00:32:21,079 supposedly had gone to Lockheed, and before anybody had even heard of to the 433 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,440 Stars or anything along that line. But it struck me as odd that wait, 434 00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:30,799 if somebody is willing to loan him a copy of this exhaustive report for 435 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:36,160 two weeks to help him, I guests write his article. Although he says 436 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,480 in this most recent interview the last few days back. I guess that he 437 00:32:38,559 --> 00:32:43,160 said, through a circuitous route he got his hands or got a copy of 438 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,759 that article that he looked at, but that it was an oh and I 439 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,279 investigation, although now maybe he thinks it was a tip. But I'm like, 440 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:53,640 he said, oh and I. Arry Davis had apparently mentioned to Linda 441 00:32:53,720 --> 00:33:00,480 Howe that the early rope that the executive summary was drawn from was done by 442 00:33:00,519 --> 00:33:05,400 an OENI investigator who was a GS fifteen, So there was clearly sometimes in 443 00:33:05,519 --> 00:33:07,680 fact, if you go and look at the reports from all the way back 444 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:13,640 to the newspaper articles. Even Fraverer has stated that he got a call from 445 00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,160 his friend Douglas Cheeks Kurth, who's the other pilot who was working at Big 446 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:22,440 Ole Aerospace that somewhere in the two thousand and eight or timeframe, somebody else 447 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,279 who was already wanting to do an investigation. A weird way to put it, 448 00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:28,079 he said, we have a customer who wants to investigate this. Can 449 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,400 we do it? I'm like, who is the customer? We don't really 450 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:36,359 know. But that's when I began to realize, clearly there's been an investigation 451 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:39,720 going on that through two different sources have stated it was an OENI investigation. 452 00:33:40,559 --> 00:33:45,720 But according to what I've heard through Linda Show and Eric and whoever stating that 453 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:50,680 the executive summary was facilitated, I think the way Linda put it, facilitated 454 00:33:50,759 --> 00:33:54,440 by this manager at the DA to get it to Eric and how for them 455 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,720 to analyze or to look at because it had been classified. So clearly there's 456 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:04,480 a passified version, a classified report. The executive summary is kind of the 457 00:34:05,039 --> 00:34:08,920 declassified, sanitized version. But somebody's loaning it to Paco Chiericci for him to 458 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:15,639 write his article, which suggests to me somebody wants this publicized or somebody is 459 00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:19,000 willing to have the information out there. And one of the things that I 460 00:34:19,119 --> 00:34:22,719 noted and that I believe was somewhere in this information this article is that's when 461 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:29,000 you first heard Douglas Curse's role was first I heard was in Paco's article where 462 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,360 he described having been out there and seen the big, huge circular shape in 463 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:37,360 the water. He doesn't quote Curse, So if you look at it that 464 00:34:37,519 --> 00:34:42,760 way, it's pretty clear from what I can tell, he must have gotten 465 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,679 the information somewhere, probably in that ONI investigation that he got and even though 466 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:52,199 the names are blocked out, it's clear that it's Curse description even in the 467 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:57,360 executive summary. But it doesn't fit with the outing as far as I can 468 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,719 tell. When Faber says he was out there and Curse said saw them coming 469 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,599 in and then he turned around, and you know they told that they called 470 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:07,880 him off, said skip it, and Fraber makes it out that time. 471 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,960 Believe him right that their new aircraft he was in has a larger fuel capacity 472 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,679 than Curse, so they wanted him to go out and stead. But Churs 473 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:21,960 already there and he described seeing it's so why would and you don't ever hear 474 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,920 about My first thought was where it was Curse wingman if Fraber said they were 475 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,719 going to do this air defense exercise, but Kurs never mentions having had a 476 00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,679 wingman, I'm thinking and this flane later on wasn't the one. So there's 477 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,480 conflicts in here. There's conflicts even down to the naval investigation end of it, 478 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:43,800 Office of Naval Intelligence, whoever was doing the investigation, that doesn't hold 479 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:47,159 up. And my thinking now is something was going on from two thousand and 480 00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:52,280 seven, which is where House said this guy started in June, very specific 481 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,400 month, June of two thousand and seven, then Douglas Kurth ends up at 482 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:00,679 big Low Aerospace. There was a comment I have been people to document where 483 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,239 I saw this, yet a comment that I think was attributed to Jacques Valet 484 00:36:04,519 --> 00:36:07,719 that he supposedly had done the database for BASS and it was then handed over 485 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,719 to a pilot, which is kind of an unusual way to put it, 486 00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:15,320 if my memory is correct, which made me wonder if that wasn't Douglas Curve 487 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:22,360 for some reason there. But the other thing about this that strikes me as 488 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:28,000 really strange, which may also tie into Alessando having been with the Office of 489 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:34,280 the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, not for acquisition and sustainment or acquisition and 490 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,639 technology, but for intelligent Of course, he was at the top of all 491 00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:43,199 of this all along, and for some reason when the money for the Harry 492 00:36:43,239 --> 00:36:46,440 redass At contract, all we've known of that came out of that money seemed 493 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,159 to be a pretty extensive effort to gather other information. I think I think 494 00:36:51,159 --> 00:36:54,559 it's pretty clear that's where the money came to buy into MUFON's database, how 495 00:36:54,639 --> 00:37:00,000 went out and had those thirty eight DRDs written. So for some reason there 496 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:06,119 was a real effort to gather more information about the UFO phenomenon in general from 497 00:37:06,199 --> 00:37:10,280 many available sources they could get, which struck me, as you would think, 498 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:13,000 as most of us who've been at this a while, I think, 499 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,559 Okay, somebody up there has all the data on why would you need to 500 00:37:15,599 --> 00:37:20,960 go out and get into a public database and a public UFO groups database. 501 00:37:21,039 --> 00:37:22,960 Why would you be going out? And so I'm not sure how. I 502 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,880 don't really have a clear mindset on how that works yet, but it's obvious 503 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,000 that a lot of what was going on over the last number of years had 504 00:37:32,039 --> 00:37:37,800 to do with going out and gathering extra extra information from other sources, not 505 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,880 like somebody already had that. And I don't know, you know, I 506 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,519 don't know whether I don't know. But at the same time, if an 507 00:37:45,559 --> 00:37:51,599 investigation had been done by O and I, who is Favor talking to in 508 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:55,280 early twenty fifteen when Paco called him up and Favor says, yeah, they 509 00:37:55,320 --> 00:38:00,400 were just here, who was doing that investigation? And why has Fraver alluded? 510 00:38:00,559 --> 00:38:04,239 That was a big question a lot of people have had. Why has 511 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:08,239 Fraver made it sound like nobody talked to him until twenty seventeen He even said 512 00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,519 in one of the programs that one of the other pilots called him up and 513 00:38:10,519 --> 00:38:13,679 said, hey, have you been talked to yet. No, Well, 514 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,079 I've been talked to you by the Pentagon five times, and Fraber said, 515 00:38:17,079 --> 00:38:22,519 give him my number and I'll talk to him. But somebody was at Fravor's 516 00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:24,840 house in twenty fifteen. Yeah, So I don't know. It's just there 517 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,400 are a lot of these questions that don't seem to add up. One of 518 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:30,559 the things I just want to make a point, a little side side note 519 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:36,880 here, and that is that if a lot of people have speculated that the 520 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,800 tic TACs were some type of you know, Air Force or some other type 521 00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:45,199 of you know project, a secret project, and they were just testing to 522 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,519 see how the Navy react, you know, would react to it, that 523 00:38:49,599 --> 00:38:53,039 type of thing. A lot of people have been speculating that. But why 524 00:38:53,079 --> 00:38:58,079 would they have an exhaustive, year long, you know, investigation if that 525 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:00,840 was a case that, I mean, everyone would be in or know about 526 00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,760 it, you know, at that level, at the upper levels that would 527 00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:08,000 initiate an investigation like this. So I'm just kind of making that point. 528 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,719 Well, it's a thought actually that I was talking to someone about this morning, 529 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,880 which started with this idea of why would somebody be talking to em twenty 530 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:22,760 fifteen and why would Elasando need to be going and interviewing everybody in twenty seventeen 531 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:25,840 if they'd already done this investigation back, you know, if a tip was 532 00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:30,079 onto it way back. But then the thought occurred to me, it almost 533 00:39:30,079 --> 00:39:34,199 sounds like somebody's trying to retrace the steps and recreate the appearance of doing this 534 00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,880 investigation for a tip. But at the same time, it occurred to me, 535 00:39:39,519 --> 00:39:46,800 if you were going to test your equipment and make a point to somebody, 536 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:51,519 it wouldn't be bad to test it around your own strike group, because 537 00:39:51,559 --> 00:39:53,840 you know there's not going to be anybody else around there, and apparently they 538 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:59,840 make sure these guys don't have live AMMO and if you can fly around out 539 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,639 there and your special radar seems to be able to pick them up. Although 540 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,880 some other really interesting articles I could credit a lot of credit to title rouge 541 00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:10,000 Away in the Drive and Tim McMillan. They write some good articles on special 542 00:40:10,039 --> 00:40:15,000 projects and the new radar technologies and whatnot, and this whole idea that there's 543 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,239 I think it was called nemesis, some type of ability to shoot drones out 544 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,639 that would like fake the presence of navy carriers and other things out there. 545 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:30,840 But if you had something like this tic TAC and you tested it out there, 546 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:36,119 and you showed whoever the dog and pony show to your senators or whomever, 547 00:40:36,599 --> 00:40:39,360 that you've got this stuff nobody has, maybe one of the first things 548 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,599 you'd wanted to do is make sure it looked like you didn't have it, 549 00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,599 that you didn't know what it was. You might play it up as UFOs, 550 00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:50,960 And now you're desperately looking for meta materials and you're trying to reverse engineer 551 00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:54,199 it so that any of the other countries, intelligence a just anybody who was 552 00:40:54,679 --> 00:40:58,800 looking at it would be just as confused as you described. Why would we 553 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:01,880 be doing all of this if we already had this stuff? So I don't 554 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,039 know. I mean, it's I'm not saying it's a perfect theory, but 555 00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:09,079 this did occur to me, the possibility that what we're now trying to do 556 00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:16,000 is to make sure it looks like we don't have it, so nobody's focusing 557 00:41:16,079 --> 00:41:21,239 their tension on us, nobody's All the spies in the world aren't suddenly trying 558 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,360 to saturate, you know, over here looking for the information. But I 559 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,840 don't know. It's a tough call when you, you know, when you 560 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:34,440 think of some of the And I agree, David Fraber is a very convincingly 561 00:41:34,599 --> 00:41:37,159 just like Kevin Dave. I mean, when I looked at Kevin Day's first 562 00:41:37,199 --> 00:41:43,000 one, just like you can't doubt that something happened out there, that whatever 563 00:41:43,039 --> 00:41:46,280 it was, had a real serious impact on these guys. I don't know 564 00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:51,760 what the rest of the soil story is, but something, something was out 565 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:57,039 there. I just don't know whose it was, right. Another question I've 566 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:00,920 asked on this show before, I haven't asked you what you thought about it, 567 00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:06,000 is why do you suppose some people had to sign an NDA and some 568 00:42:06,159 --> 00:42:09,400 people did not, like Faver for instance, I mean, why would you 569 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:14,840 know being a firsthand witness like that. I know he was debriefed, you 570 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:21,760 know, right afterwards, but I mean, no NDA. Yeah, that's 571 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:29,440 a tough call. Now, I do think, of course, keep in 572 00:42:29,559 --> 00:42:32,039 mind people are being told not to talk. It's pretty standard fair in this 573 00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:35,760 thing, going way back, we always hear about I mean, not men 574 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,840 in black, but people being told, you know, you didn't see anything 575 00:42:37,960 --> 00:42:44,159 that's the right answer. Why the pilots, from what we're told, we're 576 00:42:44,239 --> 00:42:47,639 not told, were never told not to talk. I don't know whether that's 577 00:42:47,719 --> 00:42:52,960 because maybe if maybe, if it was something we were testing, you would 578 00:42:53,000 --> 00:42:58,440 know with the advent of the Internet and with the on the supernets and with 579 00:42:58,519 --> 00:43:02,239 people emailing things. Even I think Galax Dietrich, the co pilot Fravers wingman, 580 00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,079 had made a statement that when she got back, she wrote some notes 581 00:43:07,119 --> 00:43:08,480 and sent it off mailed up to her aunt at home, saying, hold 582 00:43:08,519 --> 00:43:13,320 on to this at some real X files shipped, you know, So maybe 583 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,079 you just realize at some point these days, you're never going to keep it 584 00:43:15,159 --> 00:43:22,360 all quiet. Why they would tell the radar technicians. That's a good one. 585 00:43:22,159 --> 00:43:27,920 And at the same time time, in all fairness, I made the 586 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,320 comment and I mentioned it to you before. You know, some of the 587 00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,280 descriptions of the planes that went out Fravers encounter Kurth being out there an hour, 588 00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,960 How can Kevin Day not know that? How can they not know where 589 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:42,159 these planes were? And then if you were going to investigate frav why wouldn't 590 00:43:42,159 --> 00:43:46,239 you also talk to Kevin Day? He was the main riverman on duty at 591 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:50,719 the time. But in all fairness, it occurred to me unless you've already 592 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:53,920 got the radar data which you can use to recreate everything that would have been 593 00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:57,880 seen on the radar systems of the ships, So you might not need to 594 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,639 go back and talk to the technicians anymore because you've got all of that somewhere. 595 00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:02,920 I mean, I don't I don't have a real answer for that. 596 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,800 I mean, not speculation, but I don't know whether. And keep in 597 00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:12,840 mind, as I mentioned earlier to you, I think how put Off in 598 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,960 his SSSE conference stated that these navy pilots were permitted to talk about this. 599 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,400 I have no real good explanation, but my gut feeling right now from everything 600 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:29,920 that I've looked at with his paper, seems to suggest there's a narrative that 601 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:31,599 they were willing to use, and they wanted to use the Nimets case. 602 00:44:32,199 --> 00:44:37,360 And why have fifteen different encounters or three different encounters out there if you can 603 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:42,400 just narrow it down to the one instance which Faber was involved in, to 604 00:44:42,559 --> 00:44:45,679 tell him he can talk about anything he wants, but this is the narrative. 605 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:47,119 Kurt was out there right before you. We called him off, And 606 00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:51,119 I don't even know why they would mention Kurth if he was at Big Larra 607 00:44:51,159 --> 00:44:53,599 space, except that Paco mentioned him in that twenty fifteen article, so kurse 608 00:44:53,760 --> 00:45:00,519 name was already out there. But maybe they at some point wanted the pilots 609 00:45:01,039 --> 00:45:07,079 to speak or didn't want And I don't know. It's curious because when the 610 00:45:07,159 --> 00:45:12,440 executive summary was Eric Davis apparently, according to what I heard of Linda House 611 00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:16,599 saying one of her shows, had said that the original report was not put 612 00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:23,559 on Navy and DoD stationery specifically, I think to keep it from being classified, 613 00:45:24,199 --> 00:45:28,840 but then later on the d I classified it. Why would you not 614 00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:31,239 want it classified? Or was that an effort to keep it out of the 615 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,400 hands of people who would classify it? Right, you can just leave it 616 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,880 in your drawer, you can take it with you where you want, don't 617 00:45:37,920 --> 00:45:42,320 have to answer questions. Maybe not having the pilots talk about it, or 618 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:45,800 maybe they were told not to talk, but maybe somebody went back later and 619 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:47,960 said, Okay, we're going to do this thing now. Now you can 620 00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,360 talk about it. You just can't tell us. I can guess all day 621 00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:57,000 long. What if they were told don't speak about it, you need another 622 00:45:57,119 --> 00:46:00,760 connected Initially, Yeah, or they were told don't discuss this. But now 623 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,199 somebody comes back and says, all right, we're going to give you permit 624 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,800 as hal as Hal said, permitted to speak about it now. Well, 625 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,559 you know, I have a real good answer there. You sent me a 626 00:46:12,679 --> 00:46:16,519 link to Paco actually being interviewed and Cherici is that how you see his last 627 00:46:16,599 --> 00:46:22,280 name? I think I think so. So he's being interviewed, and he 628 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:28,000 said that he was talking about David talking with David in a bar several years 629 00:46:28,039 --> 00:46:31,760 ago, you know, previous to twenty fifteen when he heard that story first. 630 00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:37,039 So um to me, that sounds like David was able to talk about 631 00:46:37,079 --> 00:46:40,480 it whenever he wanted to. That's about yeah, exactly valid point if he 632 00:46:40,599 --> 00:46:44,159 was one talking David. Faber has made the comment they'd sit around the bar 633 00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:45,559 and talk about the strangest things they've seen. And he said, I chase 634 00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:52,320 the UFO and I agree that that's a conflict. Why would the text be 635 00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:57,400 told not to speak of it? Except I don't know accept this. The 636 00:46:57,519 --> 00:47:00,079 texts were apparently told not to speak about it by who whoever came on board 637 00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:07,159 their ships and confiscated the data. I've not heard of anybody coming on board 638 00:47:07,199 --> 00:47:10,079 to favor in his peril off the ready room and going in there and saying 639 00:47:10,119 --> 00:47:14,880 hand over the tapes and don't speak about it. So perhaps it's only the 640 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,960 people who happened to be in a position to have encountered those whoever they were 641 00:47:19,039 --> 00:47:22,760 that flew in and said give us all the data and took it away. 642 00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,360 Maybe they were told that by whoever flew in to take the data. But 643 00:47:27,159 --> 00:47:30,400 you couldn't go and talk to everybody and the pilots and everybody else on every 644 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,599 single ship, especially if there was no reason for you to go there. 645 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:37,159 So it wasn't the ad to my understanding, it wasn't the captains of the 646 00:47:37,199 --> 00:47:42,119 boats. It wasn't the Admiral Sea the Navy contacting everybody and saying don't talk. 647 00:47:42,599 --> 00:47:45,760 It sounds to me like it was just the people who came into the 648 00:47:46,159 --> 00:47:51,239 presence of these guys who supposed we flew in and wanted to confiscate the tapes 649 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,360 and the drives and all of that, who say they were told and had 650 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:59,599 signed nondisclosure agreements. Maybe it's just favored and hang out with those guys, 651 00:47:59,639 --> 00:48:01,360 And maybe he was not in a location where the men who came in on 652 00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:07,639 their planes were But but you're right, it's something. It's another question that 653 00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:10,639 I don't understand. I can't I don't have an answer for. Yeah. 654 00:48:12,199 --> 00:48:16,599 Another part of what you touch on quite a bit actually is you know, 655 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:22,480 why the Navy. You know, it's kind of an interesting you know, 656 00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:27,840 the Navy, not other branches, but there there's there's some type of connection 657 00:48:28,079 --> 00:48:32,719 there and also with TTSA as well. Yeah, that was you're right. 658 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:37,199 That's one of the very very first things that I the questions I had was 659 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,719 why is the Navy one of the prime players. The witnesses are all from 660 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,679 the Navy. The ships were out there, that was all Navy. The 661 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:51,519 Navy seems to be doing the investigation. The Navy changes, they're reporting things 662 00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:57,000 publicly comes out and says, okay, wasn't the Air Force? And forever 663 00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,880 people have generally considered if it's the UFOs, the air forces is in charge. 664 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,800 And I don't know whether I mean just speculating here, but what if 665 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,239 it was the people who came in and took all the radar tapes, who 666 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:13,280 had picked all this stuff up were part of the old Bastion Air Force of 667 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:16,000 whomever who had the authority to come in and demand those tapes, and the 668 00:49:16,079 --> 00:49:20,719 Navy didn't like it. The Navy's got pilots out there that are encountering these 669 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,639 things in their new radar systems, and the you know that they've got can 670 00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:29,360 detect these objects, and everybody's seeing these things and then suddenly realize, now 671 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:34,480 these things are here, and we've been standing behind whoever's been calling the shots 672 00:49:34,519 --> 00:49:37,639 on this before. I don't know. It's curious that in the TV episode, 673 00:49:38,159 --> 00:49:40,639 even at Christopher Mellon makes the comment, you know, we're not trying 674 00:49:40,679 --> 00:49:45,679 to do an end run around our government. Interesting thought to bring up, 675 00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:50,719 you know, if you're doing some kind of run. But yeah, I 676 00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,360 mean, and I have had plenty of people and you know as well as 677 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,800 I do in this in the history of this phenomenon, sightings out who in 678 00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:00,920 the ocean, things coming in and going out of the Navy experiences. Some 679 00:50:01,039 --> 00:50:06,199 of those are the most amazing ones for the simple fact that even in the 680 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,440 case of the name its episode of people talk about talking about why would we 681 00:50:08,559 --> 00:50:14,280 be testing things one hundred miles off the coast instead of just doing it at 682 00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,960 Area fifty one where it's all safe. Why would you risk flying something way 683 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:21,840 out there, and if it's flying around out there, it's probably not a 684 00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:24,920 it's not drug runners or something that far out there over the middle of a 685 00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:30,119 Navy carrier stripe group. But you know, the Navy has been at this 686 00:50:30,199 --> 00:50:35,000 for a long time, even back when well, I don't you don't need 687 00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:37,599 me to explain that, but but yeah, that comes up quite a bit 688 00:50:37,679 --> 00:50:43,760 people wonder why is the Navy now seemed to be behind this. You know, 689 00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:45,440 there was a comment from the lady I think it was in some of 690 00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,960 the request that people were sending in for information on a tip and who's in 691 00:50:50,119 --> 00:50:52,559 charge and a lady Susan Groff I think was her name, at the Office 692 00:50:52,559 --> 00:50:57,280 of the Secretary of Defense. Had they apparently been getting feedback from the air 693 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,559 from the Air Force as well, and Office of Secretary of Defense finally said, 694 00:51:00,559 --> 00:51:02,960 look, we're going to be the point man on this, so if 695 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,760 you have any information, you need to clear send it to them, which 696 00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:12,000 maybe that's to stop some of the contention between the Air Force and the Navy 697 00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:16,559 over who's saying what. But once again it was OSD involvement at that point, 698 00:51:16,639 --> 00:51:21,679 which is kind of where Elizondo's got into all of this, which is 699 00:51:21,679 --> 00:51:25,199 another thing I think I've fairly well decided that Alisondo was way up there, 700 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:31,239 not just some guy at the Pentagon that I actually did a search for the 701 00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:39,719 National Program Special Management Staff, which is on his signed his resignation that he 702 00:51:39,800 --> 00:51:45,320 was the director of National Program Special Management Staff. There's practically nothing on them, 703 00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:47,679 at least available on the internet. I found one entry, but it 704 00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:52,960 has to do with eye level place a group of people who are involved with 705 00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:59,119 these special access programs, and looking into that is what pretty well convinced me 706 00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:02,599 that I have a feeling Alisando was a part of this, way up at 707 00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:07,320 the top when whatever started in two thousand and seven was first getting designated as 708 00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:13,599 a special Access program, or at least something that required his input on it. 709 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,719 But I you know, it's kind of the whole idea of a TIP 710 00:52:17,800 --> 00:52:21,639 and all SAP, and if a TIP was just a nickname that special access 711 00:52:21,679 --> 00:52:27,119 programs often get nickname. So maybe, but then how comes out and says, 712 00:52:27,199 --> 00:52:30,000 but all SAT was just one. I mean, I haven't had the 713 00:52:30,079 --> 00:52:34,280 quote right in front of me, but in his ssee conference paper or report, 714 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:37,559 he mentions that, you know that this was just one program that when 715 00:52:37,559 --> 00:52:39,800 the money ran out of it. It wasn't just the end of everything there 716 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:43,960 were. Doesn't mean that that funding was all the funding there was for whatever 717 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,880 other programs there were. So once again, it's a lot of questions. 718 00:52:46,960 --> 00:52:50,920 But things just don't seem to be adding up. And I don't know what 719 00:52:51,079 --> 00:52:53,880 that spells. What does it spell out? I mean, does it mean 720 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,159 that it's a bunch of you know, I mean, i'd laugh when I 721 00:52:58,199 --> 00:53:00,239 think of the analogy of people talk about, you know, the Wizard of 722 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,239 Oz and don't look at the man behind the curtain, you know, as 723 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,679 though as though there's something and Machavellian going on. But if you remember the 724 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,280 story, the guy behind the curtain was a good guy, and then the 725 00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,280 Wizard of Oz it was an okay guy in the long run. It was 726 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,960 just the way it was being done that makes people suspicious. And that may 727 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,760 be the case here, But I don't know, just when you're not getting 728 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,559 the full story and things seem to you know, even at this point, 729 00:53:25,639 --> 00:53:30,039 it's not holding together perfectly well because if you look closely at it, you 730 00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:36,519 can get all of these discrepancies. But you know, even going down to 731 00:53:36,639 --> 00:53:40,559 the idea of the tic tac having smooth, no features, And in the 732 00:53:40,639 --> 00:53:45,519 recent interview with I think it was Pacuca Ricci's interview where he's going back over 733 00:53:45,559 --> 00:53:52,239 the ownine investigation, and he does, unfortunately kind of convey some of the 734 00:53:52,320 --> 00:53:54,880 same attitude towards some of the other witnesses that no, none of that happened, 735 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:59,280 It wasn't you know, you know, But then again, what about 736 00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,599 the story of we were having claimed that he saw these two extensions a little 737 00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,719 lantana or the little tiny thing. Yeah, he saw that was close up. 738 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:12,760 And even in the SEU report it's got a sketch in there with two 739 00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:15,719 little extensions on them, but I don't think there's any attribution for where the 740 00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:19,679 sketch came from. And Fraber's interview with Jeremy Corbell, he's very clear about 741 00:54:19,679 --> 00:54:21,760 it that you could see it clear as day. And one of the other 742 00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,360 witnesses, I apologize, I can't remember his name right now, who's mentioned 743 00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,719 standing from back from one of the screens and I guess somewhere on one of 744 00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:32,320 the ships and seeing it very very clearly. Maybe then maybe that's why they 745 00:54:32,679 --> 00:54:36,519 Why would you, why would they be more clear on that? And why 746 00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:42,039 are our videos so fuzzy when they talk about what they saw it. It's 747 00:54:42,039 --> 00:54:46,199 an interesting circumstances. Right. Well, we're right at our break at fifty 748 00:54:46,239 --> 00:54:52,280 five, so thank you so much for listening. Everyone on with Christian Lambright 749 00:54:52,400 --> 00:54:58,760 and we'll be right back right after these messages. That's it for the free 750 00:54:58,800 --> 00:55:01,719 part of the show. Thank so much for listening. And next week we'll 751 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:06,719 be back with Shane Ryan. He's going to be talking about the Westall UFO 752 00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:09,920 incident. Should be a great one. Don't forget to go over to podcast 753 00:55:10,039 --> 00:55:15,920 Ufo and check out the merchandise link. It's up there on the top menu 754 00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:22,760 bar T shirts and a lot more, and that link and the code to 755 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:28,880 save twenty percent will be right in the notes with this show, just below 756 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,159 in the text. So thanks so much, and remember to keep your eyes 757 00:55:31,199 --> 00:55:31,639 to the sky.