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Gary Jeff back in the Saddle on
seven hundred WLW and joining us a former

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Cincinnati kid kinda and yeah, obviously
left an indelible impression on Keith O'Brien.

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He went to school at Northwestern University
and now lives in New Hampshire. He

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went on to become a New York
Times best selling author. Keith O'Brien,

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how you doing, I'm great,
Gary, Thanks for having me so tell

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me a little bit about the reason
Keith is on and it's no secret here.

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His brand new book, Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall of Pete

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Rose, is out today an opening
day week in Cincinnati, which I'm sure

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Keith you know how important that is
to this community and this area and fans

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of the Cincinnati Reds and fans of
Pete Rose. But I wanted to get

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first to your history in Cincinnati.
When did you live here and how old

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were you and how did that influence
your writing and obviously your love of baseball

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and other things sports wise? Well, right, yeah, I mean,

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I am a Cincinnati kid, even
though of course I don't live there anymore.

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I was born and raised in Cincinnati. I was born on the West

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Side and my family ultimately moved to
the East Side. My whole childhood in

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Cincinnati, you know. And I'm
too young to remember the big Red Machine

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years of seventy five seventy six,
But I'm in the wheelhouse for my boyhood

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love for baseball. When Pete Rose
is traded back to the Reds in August

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nineteen eighty four, I remember exactly
where I was standing in September nineteen eighty

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five, as most Cincinnatians do,
when Pete Rose set the all time head

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record. And I also remember Gary, you know what it was like to

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live through the scandal in nineteen eighty
nine, those long months of scandal.

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And you know, I want to
be clear, like in my book Charlie

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Hustle, I I'm not part of
the story. I'm writing this in the

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way I've written all my books.
It's narrative, non fiction history, you

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know, told you know through reporting
and research and at times you know,

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unprecedented access, unprecedented interviews, unprecedented
use of thousands of pages of federal court

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documents. But but but I am
a part of this story in the sense

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that I know Cincinnati, you know, I know the part of town where

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Pete grew up. I I grew
up and went to school with guys just

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like him, and and I know
what it felt like to live there both

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during the glory days and and during
and during the fall. And and that

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is you know what I've tried to
capture here in the book, the story

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of the of the rise and fall
of this of this person who who you

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know, meant so much to us. And again, regardless of how you

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feel about him today, you know, whether you like p Rose or dislike

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him, whether you cheer for him
or you don't, Undeniably, he is

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one of the most fascinating, controversial, and important athletes of the twentieth century.

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Let's back up just a second and
talk about your time growing up here.

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You said you were born on the
west side, your family moved to

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the east side. How did you
justify that with that incredible divide that's in

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this city When I moved here in
nineteen ninety four, and the west side

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is the best side, nah na
the east side, and this whole thing

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was going on. It was strange, It was foreign to me. But

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it's so Cincinnati, Cincinnati centric to
have that divide between east and west side.

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And I guess you experienced that firsthand. Right, Well, yeah,

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I mean, you know, my
mother is a Cincinnati native. My father

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was from Columbus. You know.
They when they were a young couple and

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I was born, they had an
apartment in Price Hill, you know,

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but as you know, they their
family was growing, you know, they

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ended up moving out to Anderson Township, where I was primarily raised. So

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I guess you know, I am
one of one of the few who have

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crossed over the line in either direction
as a best selling author and an award

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winning journalist. Talking to Keith O'Brien
on The Nightcap about his new book,

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Charlie Hustle, The Rise and Fall
of Pete Rose on Opening Day week,

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So, I mean, you were
here for some a lot of great Reds

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opening days, and as we approached
that on Thursday, any memories or thoughts

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to share about Opening Day in Cincinnati
because it's so different than anywhere else in

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Major League Baseball. Well, and
that's another thing I wanted to capture in

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the book, you know, that
the importance of baseball not just in Cincinnati,

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although you're right, you know it
was, you know, quintessential to

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the culture of Cincinnati, but in
the broader culture of America. You know,

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it's uh, there's a reason why
why Pete Rose became so iconic,

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and one reason was because people in
Cincinnati and people across the country, uh,

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cared so much about baseball. You
know, it's obviously, you know,

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the national pastime. But you know, in the time that Pete is

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in baseball, this whole sport changes
in ways that are good, in ways

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that are troubling. The bottom line
that the sport changes, uh, you

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know, from a sort of a
rough and tumble, unpolished sport filled with

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lots of characters who did and said
things you simply couldn't get away with today,

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to you know, a much more
diverse corp for it's sport. You

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know, covered twenty four to seven
by you know, cable news networks like

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CNN and ESPN, And you know, I think one critical thing that you

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know, I learned in the reporting
of the book is that you know,

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the world changes, Baseball changes the
pros doesn't you know, he still thinks

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in nineteen eighty nine and in the
mid nineteen eighties when he when he gets

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himself in trouble, that he can
behave in ways that he did years earlier,

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and he simply cannot. And you
know, misdeeds in the shadows that

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you know had been tolerated before,
you know would be not tolerated this time.

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And it kind of as we're looking
into this twenty twenty four baseball season,

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Keith, we're looking at a possible
scandal involving the biggest player in the

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game right now, oh Tani.
And you look at some of the parallels

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with with what happened with Pete and
the gambling on baseball, and you wonder

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if this is going to repeat itself
again all these years later. We'll talk

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about Bargie Imadi, and we'll talk
about just more about the book, Charlie

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Hustle in just a moment after a
break, if you'll be willing to indulge

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me and let me take one real
quick. Absolutely all right, Well find

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out more about Keith O'Brien's other.
This is your fourth book, right,

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It is oh man to me to
have the patience and the diligence to write

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a book. People always say,
I've had like a forty four year radio

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career, Oh, you ought to
write a book. I'm like, Okay,

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who's got the time for that?
Keith O'Brien does and we'll talk to

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him more about Charlie Hussele in just
a moment as we continue this nightcap late

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night on seven hundred WLW, Paddy
here with two life