WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.240 --> 00:00:06.599 I think the thing that people really get caught up on is feeling like they 2 00:00:06.599 --> 00:00:10.640 have to close a deal before the eighteenth hole's done. So what happens in 3 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:14.640 that scenario is you end up just pitching for four hours, and so the 4 00:00:14.679 --> 00:00:18.199 people that you're with, they're not gonna want to go out and play golf 5 00:00:18.199 --> 00:00:21.600 with you again. If that's what happens. Everybody sat through a time shared 6 00:00:21.879 --> 00:00:24.640 presentation and you know, maybe you get a good gift at the end, 7 00:00:24.679 --> 00:00:27.320 and the gift and around the golf is getting out of the office and playing 8 00:00:27.320 --> 00:00:30.920 golf. But if you're just pitched to for a constant four hours and you're 9 00:00:30.920 --> 00:00:35.359 not interested in what the person is trying to sell you, it's really easy 10 00:00:35.399 --> 00:00:39.039 to just get disconnected and then just leave that round with that taste in your 11 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:43.640 mouth. What we always tell people is you need to leave your playing partners 12 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:47.359 on the eighteenth hole with an impression of who you are and what you're about 13 00:00:47.439 --> 00:00:52.520 and having that strong relationship. It's all about building a relationship and not necessarily 14 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:57.320 about closing a deal when you're doing business on the golf course. Hi, 15 00:00:57.439 --> 00:01:02.240 this is run sobody from Westchester, Ohio, and I play at four Bridges 16 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:07.879 country Club. This is Golf Smarter number nine fifteen, how to increase your 17 00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:15.000 bottom line on the golf course with Fairways RM and Joe Canfield. This is 18 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:21.120 Golf Smarter sharing stories, tips and insights from great golf minds to help you 19 00:01:21.200 --> 00:01:26.359 lower your score and raise your golf IQ. Here's your host, Fred Green. 20 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:30.280 Welcome to the Golf Smarter podcast show. Hey, Fred, thanks for 21 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:34.480 having me appreciate it. This is going to be an interesting conversation because I've 22 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:38.799 always loved the idea of how do we do business on the golf course? 23 00:01:40.159 --> 00:01:44.719 And you know, because there's there's myths about doing business on the golf's course. 24 00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:47.439 And I think that you're going to help us to, you know, 25 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:53.680 identify those myths and debunk them or support them. Right. Yeah, So 26 00:01:53.040 --> 00:02:00.359 tell me about your business fairways RM. Yeah. So I I went to 27 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:02.959 business school about ten years ago, and while I was there, I was 28 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:07.000 playing around to golf with a couple of my classmates and about the fourth tea, 29 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:09.000 I looked at him and I said, why don't we have a one 30 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.080 credit hour course that teaches us You always hear, you know, business happens 31 00:02:13.120 --> 00:02:15.719 on the golf course. Why doesn't there anything in business school anywhere that teaches 32 00:02:15.759 --> 00:02:20.400 you actually how to do it, and so that that thought had been in 33 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.919 my mind for a while. And you know, fast forward, I got 34 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:29.120 into a job doing partnerships and sports and on the university side of things, 35 00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.360 and I started playing golf with partners, and I had no idea what I 36 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:35.719 was doing. And so I'm like, Okay, there's got to be somebody 37 00:02:35.719 --> 00:02:39.159 out here who's put something out that has, you know, put some to 38 00:02:39.319 --> 00:02:43.560 a framework together, or at least has tips and tricks, And as far 39 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.479 as I could tell, there was nothing there. So over the last eight 40 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:51.400 years, it's kind of crazy to me that nobody's been able to, as 41 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:53.400 far as I can tell, put the two together. So over the last 42 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:57.800 eight years, while I've been out playing golf with partners and meeting people who 43 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:00.879 have been successful at doing it for business, I've just asked a ton of 44 00:03:00.960 --> 00:03:06.479 questions. I've been reading up on how you build relationships, both on you 45 00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.439 know, the romantic side and the business side, and figuring out, okay, 46 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:13.400 what works and where, and then going out on the golf course and 47 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.719 doing it myself. And so here we are, eight years later. I've 48 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:21.319 built the training that I take people through that teaches you really how to how 49 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:23.840 to do it, and so it's it's been a lot of fun. I've 50 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:27.080 been playing the game since I was I was seven years old, and you 51 00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:30.400 would think with that kind of experience, I would you'd be a natural fit 52 00:03:30.479 --> 00:03:32.680 to do it for business, but it really wasn't. And it's it's definitely 53 00:03:32.759 --> 00:03:37.680 a skill that can be taught and needs to be learned by a lot of 54 00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:42.560 people. Just fascinating that you identified it, that you realized. I love 55 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:46.680 the idea of a one credit course at least one credit, but is that 56 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:49.879 come out of that come out of the physical education department or does that come 57 00:03:49.879 --> 00:03:53.479 out of the business school? Right right? My original thought was always, 58 00:03:53.479 --> 00:03:57.280 okay, you do you know, half in the classroom talking through etiquette and 59 00:03:57.680 --> 00:04:00.800 how and when to bring up business and things like that, and then the 60 00:04:00.840 --> 00:04:03.520 other half is actually going out and learning how to play. I always tell 61 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:06.879 people, and I think one of the themes of your podcast is is really 62 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:11.560 you don't have to be great at golf to have fun of doing it right. 63 00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.759 And I always tell people too, because that's one of the things that 64 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:17.120 people kind of miss as they always will say, well, I'm not good 65 00:04:17.120 --> 00:04:19.279 at golf. I don't want to go out and embarrass myself in front of 66 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:24.040 somebody. I don't know that fell worth And that's fine, that's a legitimate 67 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:27.920 concern. But at the same time, it's like, nobody's good at golf. 68 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.199 You know, even the pays hit that shots all the time. No 69 00:04:30.199 --> 00:04:35.000 one's good at It's it's an impossible game. So I say that to people 70 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:36.680 all the time. They oh, I suck at golf. I said, 71 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:41.600 everybody sucks. Everybody. I mean even the best players in the world are 72 00:04:41.600 --> 00:04:44.959 complaining about a shot they missed. Exactly. It's at to tell people, 73 00:04:44.959 --> 00:04:46.879 I'm like, yeah, you want to at least be competent. You want 74 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:48.639 to be able to get a ball on the green within six to seven shots. 75 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:53.079 And I've been teaching a little bit of golf here and there, and 76 00:04:53.399 --> 00:04:56.560 so that's something that I've tried to bring into it as well, to not 77 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.639 only make it a little bit more fun for people to go through a corporate 78 00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:03.720 training, but to help you build that skill because really part of doing business 79 00:05:03.720 --> 00:05:10.279 on the course is having confidence, right, being confident in your ability to 80 00:05:10.319 --> 00:05:13.879 have a good conversation. And if you're focused on how bad you are at 81 00:05:13.879 --> 00:05:16.199 the game or how terrible you're playing, You're not going to have those kinds 82 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:20.279 of conversations and the level of conversation that you need to have to start building 83 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:30.120 strong relationships. Right, But what do you have when you started this company? 84 00:05:30.199 --> 00:05:32.600 How long have you had this company? Now? I've been running it 85 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:35.800 for about a year now. We've been doing testing and all that kind of 86 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:40.399 stuff. We launched an online course just about a month ago. But we've 87 00:05:40.439 --> 00:05:45.800 been doing corporate trainings for about a year now. But you have a job 88 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.480 as you're starting to do this or this is your life right now? No, 89 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:53.800 I still work full time. I do partnerships and development for the University 90 00:05:53.839 --> 00:05:57.920 of Utah. But I mean, ideal scenario, I'd love to jump in 91 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:01.120 to do this and teach people how to way golf. And I do think 92 00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:05.120 it's a marketable skill. I Mean one of the crazy things was, you 93 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.199 know, I was coming out at business school. I'm a twenty three year 94 00:06:08.199 --> 00:06:11.720 old kid, and I'm the only one who played golf in the office, 95 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.959 and so all of a sudden, I find myself playing golf with people that 96 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.399 are you know, the head of marketing of multinational corporations and CEOs of companies 97 00:06:19.399 --> 00:06:21.680 in the valley. And you know, I'm sitting here as a twenty three 98 00:06:21.759 --> 00:06:26.279 year old kid, and the only reason I'm in that scenario is because I 99 00:06:26.439 --> 00:06:30.480 played golf, right, And so it's something that I wish more people would 100 00:06:30.519 --> 00:06:32.920 pick up when they were younger, right, and they were able to use 101 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:35.199 it. And people ask me it wasn't really a marketable skill. I go, 102 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:38.399 well, yeah, I think it is. You know, I've been 103 00:06:38.439 --> 00:06:41.160 able to get to where I'm at in my career because I've been able to 104 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:45.839 use it and have had an audience with people that I would never have in 105 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.839 any other scenario. And you've probably played some pretty fun courses. We've we've 106 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:54.879 been some fun places, yeah, we've and you get to write it all 107 00:06:54.959 --> 00:07:00.360 off. So yeah, exactly where's the downside here? Right? I mean, 108 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:03.519 that's the dream. I Mean one of the things that I've been fortunate 109 00:07:03.519 --> 00:07:06.560 to do. One of the corporate trainings we did was actually up abandoned dudes, 110 00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:11.600 and that was that was incredible. I'd never been before, and I 111 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:15.040 mean I think you could spend you know, years there and not get bored 112 00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:18.839 that places is incredible. But taking a partner up and getting letting them experience 113 00:07:18.920 --> 00:07:23.839 that and then having that experience with somebody else, Like, that's a relationship 114 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:27.680 that's never going to die, even if they move on to another another company 115 00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:30.920 or whatever, Like, you're always going to have that connection once you experience 116 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.839 something like that. Oh especially if you have a budget to do that and 117 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:39.199 someone else is paying for it, Oh my god. They Yeah, if 118 00:07:39.199 --> 00:07:42.160 it was on their diamond, mightbe not so much, but they would still 119 00:07:42.199 --> 00:07:44.199 be some good memories there for sure. No no, no, no, 120 00:07:44.360 --> 00:07:48.680 You're you're trying to get clients. You're trying to close business, so you 121 00:07:48.800 --> 00:07:53.160 got to take care of that. But still absolutely go into places like Bandon 122 00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.240 Dunes as people. People do it all the time. I mean, it's 123 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:01.920 obviously it's high ticket type sales. It's relationship based sales. It's not necessarily 124 00:08:01.920 --> 00:08:03.839 you're selling them a software package or something like that. You know, it's 125 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.120 the industries are typically you know, banking, insurance and kind of high end 126 00:08:09.279 --> 00:08:13.519 types of you know, vcs are taking people out. There's a few groups 127 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.279 here in Utah where I'm based that you know, they load up people on 128 00:08:16.319 --> 00:08:18.759 a private jet, they go fly out, they play golf for a couple 129 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.000 of days, and then they come back and that's how they that's how they 130 00:08:22.079 --> 00:08:28.560 generate their business. And I think it's lost on people like how valuable that 131 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:31.160 actually is. They see the cost of it and they see the expense, 132 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:37.360 but they don't understand the value of having strong relationships and how much easier it 133 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:41.320 is to do business with people that you like and you've already built that relationship 134 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:46.720 with right, Yeah, exactly. My son works in private equity and so 135 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:52.080 he gets taken to a lot of great courses and every year they've got a 136 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:56.840 group of like twenty eight guys that goes up to hand. Yeah, that's 137 00:08:56.879 --> 00:09:00.120 incredible. Yeah, and it's like, oh, okay, I mean, 138 00:09:00.240 --> 00:09:03.759 like he had an injury, so he hasn't played in a number of months, 139 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.440 but right before the injury, he was in Ireland with nine guys, 140 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:11.600 you know, I mean, and so and I'm just like playing munis locally 141 00:09:13.440 --> 00:09:16.440 and it's like yeah, no, Dad, I'm not. No, it's 142 00:09:16.480 --> 00:09:20.720 not the same thing. Yeah, not the same thing. Not the same 143 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:24.840 thing. No. So, when you talk about teaching golf, are you 144 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.919 talking about the mechanics of golf? Are you just talking about doing business the 145 00:09:30.279 --> 00:09:33.840 mechanics of doing business on the golf course. So yeah, it's interesting enough. 146 00:09:35.000 --> 00:09:37.840 You know, the original idea that I had was to combine both because 147 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:41.440 I do believe that you need to be confident enough in your golf game that 148 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:46.240 that's not what you're worried about when you're out playing, you're able to play. 149 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:48.879 And so I'm doing both. So what a typical training looks like from 150 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:54.679 us is we spend two hours in the office with you. We talk through 151 00:09:54.840 --> 00:09:58.200 when we go through a number of exercises. We work on understanding the value 152 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:03.200 that you per bring to a round a golf because once you've understand the value 153 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:05.879 that you can deliver to somebody else, that confidence level just shoots up. 154 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.240 Right. You already know, okay, great, I know exactly what I 155 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.519 have to deliver. My invite's going to be succinct, it's going to be 156 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:16.120 great. I know I know how to get somebody out of the course. 157 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:20.240 And then we talk through golf etiquette, because that's another big excuse people use, 158 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.840 is I'm not good at golf, and then I don't want to embarrass 159 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.600 myself by breaking some of these unwritten rules. And everybody who's in golf knows 160 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.279 that, you know, etiquette is subjective, and some people do things front 161 00:10:31.320 --> 00:10:35.639 than others, and so we cover a lot of that stuff. And then 162 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:39.279 the next day what we do is we go out on the course and I 163 00:10:39.320 --> 00:10:43.080 teach a swing lesson. We go through everything from putting. We start with 164 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.600 putting, go to chipping, pitching, full swing, and then drivers. 165 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:50.120 And then we sit down and we have lunch, and then I saren you 166 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.519 lose, to go play eighteen holes and put into practice what we talked about 167 00:10:54.519 --> 00:11:01.000 the day before. Fascinating. Fascinating. You know, you talked about how 168 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:07.879 golf is supposed to be fun even if you you're awful. Let me just 169 00:11:07.919 --> 00:11:11.120 say, golf gets more fun the better you get, so it's worth the 170 00:11:11.200 --> 00:11:15.679 effort if you have the right attitude. Though, if you had a bad 171 00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.759 attitude, it's never fun. It's never fun. And if you keep blaming 172 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.039 yourself, it's like light not up. Okay. I told guy, a 173 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:26.440 friend of mine, we were playing a week or so ago, and he 174 00:11:26.519 --> 00:11:28.120 started yelling at himself, and I said, don't talk to my friend that 175 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:33.600 way. I listen, we're gonna take a time out. We're gonna be 176 00:11:33.600 --> 00:11:43.200 back right after this. Joe, there's gotta be a number of rules and 177 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:52.000 myths about doing business. On the golf course. Do you have your own 178 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.759 list, do you have your own way of approaching those things? Yeah, 179 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:01.639 I think the thing that people really get caught up on is feeling like they 180 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:05.720 have to close a deal before the eighteenth holes done right, And so what 181 00:12:05.840 --> 00:12:11.200 happens in that scenario is you end up just pitching for four hours and so 182 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.279 the people that you're with and they're not gonna want to go out and play 183 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.919 golf with you again. If that's what happens, everybody sat through a Timeshare 184 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.960 presentation and you know, maybe you get a good gift at the end, 185 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:24.639 and the gift and around the golf is getting out of the office and playing 186 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.360 golf. But if you're just pitched to for constant four hours and you're not 187 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:33.120 interested in what the person is trying to sell you, it's really easy to 188 00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:35.960 just get disconnected and then just leave that round with that taste in your mouth. 189 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.360 What we always tell people is you need to leave your playing partners on 190 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:45.240 the eighteenth hole with an impression of who you are and what you're about and 191 00:12:45.279 --> 00:12:50.360 having that strong relationship. Right. It's all about building a relationship and not 192 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.559 necessarily about closing a deal when you're doing business on the golf course. That 193 00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.840 comes after. Right, We really believe in the value of relationships and the 194 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:01.480 power of building strong relationships because at the end of the day, we do 195 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:05.679 business with people that we like. It's whether that's right or wrong. That's 196 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:09.480 how it happens. Right, you need something done, you want to be 197 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.559 able to pick up the phone and call somebody that you know is going to 198 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.120 be able to get it done for you. So what we teach is how 199 00:13:15.200 --> 00:13:18.759 to emulate those values through around a golf that's going to leave that person feeling 200 00:13:18.799 --> 00:13:22.080 like, Okay, I need something done. I'm going to pick up the 201 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:24.759 phone and I'm gonna I'm gonna call Fred because I know that he's gonna be 202 00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:28.759 able to get it done for me. So that's one of the big ones 203 00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:35.120 is it's not about closing deals, it's about building relationships and then the deal 204 00:13:35.200 --> 00:13:41.919 comes later. And what about That's awesome? That is absolutely fabulous. I 205 00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:48.679 love that. What about Somebody once told me in an early episode that you 206 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.679 don't do business on the golf course, which is basically you're saying, is 207 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.559 you learn about whether or not you want to do business with that person absolutely 208 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:05.480 on the golf course. Because of character, and golf exposes character. Yeah, 209 00:14:05.559 --> 00:14:09.799 I actually I just I just posted this the other day on our LinkedIn 210 00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:13.360 page. But there's a stat that was that came out. It was a 211 00:14:13.480 --> 00:14:16.720 study done. It was as a survey sent out to Fortune five hundred CEOs, 212 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:20.600 and fifty four percent of them said that they believe that the way someone 213 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.679 conducts themselves on the golf course is the same way that they conduct themselves in 214 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.000 business. Yeah. I want to say that the other forty six percent don't 215 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:35.279 want to admit that their poor behaviors affecting their bottom line. And so that's 216 00:14:35.279 --> 00:14:39.039 so true. You learned so much about somebody, and so in a scenario 217 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:41.679 that you're not going to get in a conference room, right, you've broken 218 00:14:41.720 --> 00:14:46.919 down so many barriers through golf. That's a more casual setting, Like you're 219 00:14:46.960 --> 00:14:52.120 going to have more conversations based around personal things. It's not all business. 220 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.240 And you're sitting on the same playing field too, right, Like there's always 221 00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:03.320 you're taught in negotiation courses in business school that where you sit in the room 222 00:15:03.399 --> 00:15:05.960 is important. On a golf course, Yeah, you can set up the 223 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:09.120 golf carts in the right way and you can drive and there's a few little 224 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.399 nuances that you can do there, but at the end of the day, 225 00:15:11.399 --> 00:15:18.960 you're both playing the same course. Yeah. What about gambling on the golf 226 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:24.919 course with somebody you're trying to do business with. Yes, gambling always enters 227 00:15:24.960 --> 00:15:28.720 the conversation when you're playing golf, right. Yeah, I'm a big fan 228 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:33.399 of playing five bucks, you know, never big money. I you know, 229 00:15:33.080 --> 00:15:37.279 if you're and not jumping into it right away either, if you're playing 230 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:39.919 with somebody for the first time, I highly advise against gambling with them. 231 00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:45.600 Yeah, that's probably good idea. Yeah. And then the other this is 232 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:48.480 another myth too, that is people feel like you need to make that person 233 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.240 win so they feel good about themselves. I don't agree with that. Good 234 00:15:52.279 --> 00:15:58.159 for you because you do too. Yeah your game, Yeah, play your 235 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.000 game and and show that you are a person of character, because I think 236 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:06.879 letting somebody win is almost a form of lying, right, It's like I'm 237 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:10.399 sand Baggett and I'm going to do what i have to to make this person 238 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:15.120 like me instead of just being a likable person. But yeah, I'll play 239 00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.840 five dollars a side here and there, and that's always fun and it's a 240 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:25.039 good tool to use when you're playing with people of very different abilities. So 241 00:16:25.279 --> 00:16:27.039 you know, I'm a fairly good player. I'm a low single handicap, 242 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:30.559 single digit handicap, and I'll play with a lot of guys who are higher 243 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:33.600 handicaps. And what we'll do is we'll play two month scamples, right, 244 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:37.519 and we'll put me with the person who's not of great ability, and that 245 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:41.440 helps them feel better about the day because they have a chance to win something. 246 00:16:42.080 --> 00:16:45.960 And you build good camaraderie that way. With the team meet with a 247 00:16:45.000 --> 00:16:48.799 team game as well, like you're showing teamwork and you get to learn more 248 00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:55.159 about how somebody responds in a team setting too, right, Right, that's 249 00:16:55.200 --> 00:17:00.919 interesting. Letting somebody win is like lying. It's so powerful and so true. 250 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:06.680 Great, great approach. You mentioned LinkedIn that you you did a post 251 00:17:06.759 --> 00:17:12.880 on LinkedIn the other day. Have you found have you for your company that 252 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:19.680 one social media element is better than the other for what you're trying to to 253 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:23.440 expose? I think for me, yeah, LinkedIn has definitely been the place 254 00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:26.799 to be just because of the nature of what I'm talking about and what we're 255 00:17:26.839 --> 00:17:30.960 teaching. It's very business driven, very business focused. LinkedIn is used by 256 00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:33.880 a lot of people for sales, and so they kind of see what we're 257 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.279 what we're talking about and kind of get into that. Okay, great, 258 00:17:37.359 --> 00:17:41.359 Yeah, I'm good at the online you know, lead generation or whatever it 259 00:17:41.440 --> 00:17:45.559 is. Now I need to actually start putting stuff into practice. I need 260 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.440 to get that in phase per you know, one on one interaction. And 261 00:17:49.480 --> 00:17:55.279 so yeah, we've we've found some success there. You know, I think 262 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.680 Tiger just came out that there's a video of Tiger that was posted the other 263 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:02.000 day about swing tips on YouTube. You said, quit watching YouTube and just 264 00:18:02.039 --> 00:18:04.279 get out there and start hitting balls. And I kind of agree with that 265 00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:07.119 a little bit, where you know, the other social media platforms will lean 266 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.480 into kind of these swing tips and and things like that. Well, there's 267 00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:15.039 some great stuff out there. It's really hard to build a complete swing on 268 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.720 on YouTube tips along. That's why you needed this podcast, yeah, right, 269 00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:26.680 just to remind you that, you know, the swing is not the 270 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.480 whole thing, right, I mean, it's it's it's being on the golf 271 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:33.400 course, it's learning every shot, it's there's and it's not beating yourself up 272 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.680 as we talked about already. Yeah, what about other rules and myths that 273 00:18:38.240 --> 00:18:42.640 you like to present when you're talking to a group. Yeah, I think 274 00:18:44.240 --> 00:18:48.799 golf etiquette people make way more more complicated than it needs to be. And 275 00:18:48.920 --> 00:18:53.519 so what we really talk about is there are three things that you need to 276 00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:57.720 make sure that you're following every time you're on the golf course, and the 277 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:03.200 rest of it is all subjective. And those three things are not creating a 278 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:07.720 distraction while somebody else is hitting, so you hear don't talk into backswing. 279 00:19:07.720 --> 00:19:11.000 But that kind of extends to don't make it, don't you know, distractions, 280 00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:15.559 movement, shadows that all that kind of fun stuff. Don't open a 281 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:19.079 bag of potato chips and start chumping on right on, silent, not vibrate, 282 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.240 so you don't hear it. Right, That's that's playing a theme song 283 00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:29.279 to some movie. Right. The second one, it kind of extends into 284 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:33.599 the into uh, not creating a distraction, but walking in people's lines on 285 00:19:33.640 --> 00:19:41.400 the green that one should go without saying that one's pretty obvious anybody not to 286 00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:42.720 everyone. Yeah, I know, I see it a lot. I play 287 00:19:42.799 --> 00:19:45.359 with a lot of people, and then you're kind of like, what, 288 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:48.839 really, I'm working with my six year old on it. He's getting better, 289 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.519 he has he has a pass. Yeah, that's right. And the 290 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:59.319 third that we really stress that I think a lot of people miss is cell 291 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.359 phone use. On course, I think that that takes you away from what 292 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.799 you're trying to accomplish. It tells people that I would rather be anywhere else 293 00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:11.480 but here because this phone call is coming in and talking through those types of 294 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.799 things. Being present in the moment, I think is is That's the third 295 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.599 thing that we really hit on with golf etiquette is is if you can do 296 00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:22.319 that, don't cause distractions, watch where you're walking on greens, and be 297 00:20:22.400 --> 00:20:26.519 present. All the rest of it's going to fall into place. I've got 298 00:20:26.599 --> 00:20:30.000 a friend who is on his phone, like when other people are hitting at 299 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.279 the te box and there's four guys standing there and this guy's just on his 300 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:38.119 phone checking Twitter or X or whatever the hell it's called, and then you 301 00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:41.440 know, checking to CV, he's got any messages and texting people. It's 302 00:20:41.519 --> 00:20:45.480 like, am I here with you? Are? Like? What R? 303 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.079 Why are you doing that? It's like I find it distracting when somebody else 304 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.759 is on the phone just to themselves. But I feel like, if you 305 00:20:56.799 --> 00:20:59.680 don't want me, you invited me to your club, if you don't want 306 00:20:59.680 --> 00:21:02.960 me to be exactly well, and you run into other things. I mean, 307 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:06.920 you were talking earlier about about your son playing all these incredible golf courses, 308 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:10.400 and some of those will have rules against even having your phone out right. 309 00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:12.960 And I've run into that before, where you know, the Sali Country 310 00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:15.759 Club. Here's a nice club, and they're a tuck in your shirt and 311 00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:21.079 wear a belt type of club. And there's people that don't understand that. 312 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:25.960 It's not something that's commonplace, and especially for some business people that don't play 313 00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:27.680 golf very often, like they're not going to know those kinds of things. 314 00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:32.480 Yeah, So that's what we tell people that too, Like if you're inviting 315 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.480 somebody to a nice club, make sure they understand the rules before they get 316 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:40.359 there, so they're not embarrassed before you even hit a ball right right, 317 00:21:40.759 --> 00:21:42.960 And you know, and some of those rules are archaic, and some of 318 00:21:42.960 --> 00:21:48.279 them are a stuffy and and a lot of them give golf a bad reputation. 319 00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.759 I really believe, why would you. I mean, okay, I 320 00:21:52.799 --> 00:21:56.440 won't wear cutoffs, but why do you care if my shirts tucked in? 321 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:00.319 Right? Really? Yeah? And then there are courses they have rules where 322 00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:03.640 cell phones are not allowed, but cigars are yep, exactly. I find 323 00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:07.079 that really interesting. That's like, oh, okay, you know. The 324 00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:10.480 thing of it is, there are all these strange rules, there's all these 325 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:12.839 things that don't make a ton of sense to a lot of people are outside 326 00:22:12.880 --> 00:22:17.000 of the game. But if you look back at it and really kind of 327 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:19.079 go back to the roots of golf, it's all rooted in respect, right, 328 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:23.440 respect for the game, respect for the course, respect for your playing 329 00:22:23.480 --> 00:22:29.200 partners. And that's why all these little silly rules exist. You know. 330 00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.640 One that that I've picked up on a little bit later in my life, 331 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:36.759 and I think somebody down in the South for this, is always removing your 332 00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.480 hat when you walk into the clubhouse. Right, That's something so trivial, 333 00:22:40.519 --> 00:22:44.119 and I've never even thought about that throughout my life, you know, especially 334 00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:47.400 at the at the end of eighteen holes and it's been a hot day and 335 00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:51.440 you've got terrible hat hit exactly, don't You don't want to take the hat 336 00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.119 off. You don't want to, but it's a sign of respect. And 337 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.759 if everybody's doing it, they've all got messy hot hit. Right. It's 338 00:22:56.799 --> 00:23:00.880 not the thing that you should be necessarily that worried about it. And you 339 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:03.279 know, after the round, you're sitting in the clubhouse having a drink, 340 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.119 taking your glasses in, your hat off and setting on the table. Shows 341 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:07.920 Hey, i'm here, I'm present. I want to have a conversation with 342 00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:11.839 you. I'm not ready to just walk out the door. It's the same 343 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:15.680 thing as being on cell phones. I've got a follow up to that that 344 00:23:15.720 --> 00:23:17.920 we're going to talk about, but we're gonna take another break. Come on 345 00:23:17.960 --> 00:23:29.200 the back. Okay, I've got one for you that you know. Where 346 00:23:29.240 --> 00:23:33.759 does this fall in the whole etiquette thing. Having a speaker hanging from your 347 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:40.799 golf cart playing music that can be heard over three different holes. This is 348 00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:45.039 when we actually we do address Oh good, because that one kind of makes 349 00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.480 me crazy. It's like put on hat phones, man, Yeah right, 350 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:52.960 you know, it's it's becoming part of more, part of the game, 351 00:23:53.000 --> 00:23:57.480 more and more, and you're seeing golf manufacturers actually build equipment. Bushnell has 352 00:23:57.480 --> 00:24:02.880 their speakers, and you're seeing it more and more. And our take on 353 00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:06.799 it is this is where one of those personal preference things. This is where 354 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.200 that kind of gray area etiquette fits. So I always say, find out 355 00:24:11.240 --> 00:24:15.039 the preference of your playing partners. Right and figure out how they want to 356 00:24:15.079 --> 00:24:18.279 manage that. And then if they do want to play music, or they 357 00:24:18.279 --> 00:24:21.119 are playing music, make sure you're not playing it loud enough that other groups 358 00:24:21.160 --> 00:24:25.160 can hear it. That's not that's what you just said, Like you don't 359 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:26.720 want to hear that three holes away. I'm not a big fan of music 360 00:24:26.759 --> 00:24:30.400 on the golf course, but I'll tolerate it. It's fine as long as 361 00:24:30.440 --> 00:24:33.039 it's my group and we're aware of what's going on. I was actually playing 362 00:24:33.039 --> 00:24:37.440 in an amateur tournament about a month ago, and the two guys that I 363 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:38.519 was playing with like, you care if we listen to music, and I 364 00:24:38.559 --> 00:24:41.640 was like, I don't love it, but I also don't mind. Just 365 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:45.440 keep it low, right, And so it's one of those things. It 366 00:24:45.559 --> 00:24:48.759 just depends on your personal preference, and it's becoming more and more part of 367 00:24:48.759 --> 00:24:52.519 the game. Just don't let it distract the entire golf course. That nots 368 00:24:52.559 --> 00:24:56.599 frustrate me, and I think it frustrates a lot of people. Oh yeah, 369 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.119 It's like when you're driving down the street and somebody's got the music is 370 00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.680 it going in their car? Right? That you're like, where's that coming 371 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:04.759 from? Wait? Wait? What am I do I need to pull over. 372 00:25:04.880 --> 00:25:08.400 It's like, you hear this thumping in the cars bouncing, It's like, 373 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:11.920 can't you just listen to it in your golf cart? That's fine? 374 00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:15.759 Yeah, yeah, And then when you walk up to the green, Please, 375 00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:18.960 if you're listening to music while we're on the green, why don't you 376 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.359 put it on pause. So we kind of back to causing the distraction. 377 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:26.039 Right, If it's a constant noise, Like if you're on the course and 378 00:25:26.079 --> 00:25:30.160 there's construction happening, you're not going to be mad about the tractors over there 379 00:25:30.200 --> 00:25:33.079 making noise because it's a constant noise, and so it's less of distraction. 380 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.079 You're not focused on it. But like if the song's changing or it's cutting 381 00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.559 in and out and it's doing these things, it's too loud or things like 382 00:25:40.599 --> 00:25:42.599 that, that causes a distraction. Right, So as long as you can 383 00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:47.400 make the music part of the day, part of your ambient noise, then 384 00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.279 it's not necessarily a distraction. That's kind of the way that we look at 385 00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:55.039 it. Oh, talk about distraction. I was watching the Tennis US Open 386 00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:00.759 and during the women's semifinals, somebody got up to go to the bathroom. 387 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:04.240 And the camera picked up on the guy and was watching him, and everybody 388 00:26:04.319 --> 00:26:10.839 stopped and stared at him, and he's like, oh my god. They're 389 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.759 like and then the announcer, you know, the stateiument o, can you 390 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:19.400 please sit down? I got a piece you cannot be in between during a 391 00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:26.640 point. Yikes, it's still funny. Yeah. If you've played tennis, 392 00:26:26.680 --> 00:26:33.119 you know it's the same thing, right, right, exactly. So let's 393 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.599 get back to your business and and how more people can get involved. I'm 394 00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:45.079 curious when you go and pitch your business to a corporation, take me through 395 00:26:45.119 --> 00:26:48.680 that. Tell me, let me hear your pitch. Yeah. I mean 396 00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.000 I covered a little bit of it with just my own personal experience with with 397 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.480 golf and how I've been able to make it a marketable skill for myself as 398 00:26:56.559 --> 00:26:59.160 much as you know I have. I have a background and graphic design too. 399 00:26:59.200 --> 00:27:02.000 That was my first job about of college. I did design work, 400 00:27:02.079 --> 00:27:04.680 so I understand how to do that. I think golf can be almost that 401 00:27:04.799 --> 00:27:08.799 same thing, where it's this is a marketable skill for somebody. When I'm 402 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:15.200 talking to corporations, it's all about Look, business is changing. It's more 403 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:19.680 relational than it's ever been. You need to start building strong relationships, and 404 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:23.559 using golf as a tool is something that anybody can learn how to do. 405 00:27:25.480 --> 00:27:27.880 And so let's start working with your sales team, get them off of the 406 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:33.920 phones and get them actually in front of people building relationships, because that is 407 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:38.759 where your business is going to thrive. Yeah. Yeah, And are you 408 00:27:38.799 --> 00:27:42.960 finding that you're doing less and less face to face business pitches and do it 409 00:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.279 more? Like what we're doing here is looking at each other and talking. 410 00:27:47.640 --> 00:27:52.359 It's not as much as it was obviously two or three years ago. And 411 00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.400 I've always you know, one of the on our online course we actually go 412 00:27:56.480 --> 00:28:00.359 through this. We have five levels of communication, starting with cold email outreaches 413 00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:04.559 all the way into playing golf with somebody, And every level you go up, 414 00:28:04.720 --> 00:28:10.559 you're building a stronger relationship. You're creating an environment to share more about 415 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:12.799 yourself and to learn more about the people that you're trying to work with. 416 00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.640 And so if you're missing out on those face to face opportunities, you're spending 417 00:28:18.640 --> 00:28:22.799 a lot of time spinning your wheels, especially with cold email outreach. I 418 00:28:22.799 --> 00:28:25.720 mean, I know we're here today because of a face to face interaction I 419 00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:29.759 had with one of your friends, right, And it was because we were 420 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.400 at a conference together. I went up and said and introduced myself. Hey, 421 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:34.119 I'm Joe and I happened to be speaking at the conference and I shared 422 00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:37.079 a little antidote that he resonated with and he came up after and said, 423 00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:41.400 this is awesome. I'd love to talk to you more about it. And 424 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:47.200 so doing more and more of that type of stuff is it's less effort and 425 00:28:47.519 --> 00:28:56.279 it's a lot higher return from what I've seen. Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, 426 00:28:56.319 --> 00:29:03.720 let's talk about what you're training that you do offer at Fairways RM. 427 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.720 You have a variety of trainings that you do. Yeah, So we do 428 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:12.200 kind of what I've explained it a little bit with the we sit down, 429 00:29:12.240 --> 00:29:17.119 we do a two hour seminar, go through some workshops, and then we 430 00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:21.039 get on the golf course and actually learn how to play golf and then put 431 00:29:21.079 --> 00:29:23.200 into practice what we talked about. That's what we are kind of bread and 432 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:26.960 butter is it's a quick, you know, two day type training. We 433 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:32.759 also do some one on one coaching that helps people understand the value that they 434 00:29:32.799 --> 00:29:34.680 can bring to a round of golf. We go through creating an actual value 435 00:29:34.680 --> 00:29:38.599 statement for you. We help you craft a pitch for how to get somebody 436 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:41.960 on the golf course, and then we go through these etiquette things. We 437 00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:45.599 go through how you should be acting on the golf course, the values that 438 00:29:45.599 --> 00:29:51.400 you should be emulating. We have a set of fifteen values that you can 439 00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:55.039 emulate through a round of golf. And what we typically do is we have 440 00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.359 somebody to do a self assessment on themselves of that Okay, I'm great at 441 00:29:57.359 --> 00:30:00.079 doing this, it's this and this. I'm very honest, I'm good at 442 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:03.720 you know, I write down the right score every time, those types of 443 00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:07.319 things, and then we pick three or four of those things to work on 444 00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:11.359 and I'll go out on the course with you and help you understand when what 445 00:30:11.519 --> 00:30:15.559 situations you can start to emulate those values and how you can work that in. 446 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:19.279 And then what we do is we work on follow up as well, 447 00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:22.240 because that's really where the business happens. Like we talked about the golf, 448 00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.119 the round of golf is all about building a relationship. And then afterwards is 449 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.359 where you're going to actually close the business. And there's some tactics and things 450 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:37.400 that we teach and help on that end as well. Now, golf business, 451 00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:45.720 let's say is a twelve month a year engagement. Golf isn't necessarily twelve 452 00:30:45.759 --> 00:30:48.960 months a year. Like you're in Utah, you probably don't get to play 453 00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:52.119 golf twelve months a year. No, I'm fortunate that Las Vegas is only 454 00:30:52.160 --> 00:30:57.400 six hours away, so I'll jump in the car and head down. So 455 00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:03.160 what about those people who don't get to play golf all year long but still 456 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:08.839 would like to use these methods to improve their business? Yeah? Yeah. 457 00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:11.400 One of the like one of the things we've been talking about a little bit 458 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:17.119 is it is relationship based, right, and so even though you can't golf 459 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.680 all year long, you can build relationships all year long. You have that 460 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:22.759 you've built you've played golf. But yeah, we do have some online courses 461 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.400 that we offer that you can do during the winter. And I love to 462 00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:30.079 say, okay, let's get you going through the winter, so when spring 463 00:31:30.160 --> 00:31:33.480 hits and all those scramble invitations start to come in, you're ready to go. 464 00:31:34.519 --> 00:31:41.359 We do some corporate retreats as well. We mentioned Bandon Dunes. We 465 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:44.799 take groups up there and you can golf year round up there. It's always 466 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:49.279 sixty degrees and usually rainy. You're windy, but but it's Yeah, it's 467 00:31:49.319 --> 00:31:52.559 one of those experiencedas you got to have. But yeah, that's a year 468 00:31:52.640 --> 00:31:56.640 round place. We take groups down to Las Vegas. That's a year round 469 00:31:56.680 --> 00:32:00.319 spot, and I really like to use that off season is kind of your 470 00:32:00.359 --> 00:32:04.799 your training, Like, let's let's start doing that. And then the other 471 00:32:04.839 --> 00:32:08.839 thing that we've been able to utilize too is the assimulator business that's grown like 472 00:32:08.920 --> 00:32:14.799 crazy out here in Utah. A new one's popping up every day. Yeah. 473 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:17.319 I live in a little town about forty five minutes from Salt Lake of 474 00:32:17.359 --> 00:32:21.240 about fifty thousand people, and we have three of them in our little valley. 475 00:32:21.319 --> 00:32:23.079 So it's wow, they're all over the place. They're jump, they're 476 00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.920 popping up everywhere. And that's something that we've been able to utilize as well. 477 00:32:27.920 --> 00:32:30.960 So not necessarily out on the course, but we can do swing lessons 478 00:32:30.000 --> 00:32:34.079 and we can go through all of the workshops and things that we have in 479 00:32:34.119 --> 00:32:39.680 that setting as well. Are there businesses that don't work for what you're trying 480 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:43.640 to achieve? Have you come across a business that you're going, yeah, 481 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:46.839 you know what, you're right, this is not the right Yeah, I 482 00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:51.039 mean for you, it could work for anybody. Right. It just depends 483 00:32:51.079 --> 00:32:54.160 on your as long as you have sales and market. It depends on the 484 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:58.880 on the I mean ticket like that, how much you like what your product 485 00:32:59.000 --> 00:33:01.240 is, and you know it may not be the best thing for you know, 486 00:33:01.279 --> 00:33:05.359 a software as a service type company that's selling you know, one hundred 487 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:09.960 dollars licenses or things like that. But for higher ticket items it's great because 488 00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:15.039 you can go spend you know, two hundred and fifty dollars, three hundred 489 00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:19.880 dollars entertaining three people for four hours explaining what your product is, and if 490 00:33:19.880 --> 00:33:22.839 that helps you close a three million dollars sale, then your cost of sales 491 00:33:22.960 --> 00:33:28.960 was like nothing, right, right. And that's something that is a little 492 00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:30.720 bit of a learning curve for some companies because they look at it and go, 493 00:33:30.759 --> 00:33:34.640 well, I don't want to go spend three hundred dollars on one round 494 00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.519 of golf. That doesn't seem worth it to me. But I don't think 495 00:33:37.559 --> 00:33:42.160 that a lot of people understand exactly how much value they're getting out of that 496 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:47.240 four hours. Interesting. Interesting, We're gonna take one more time out check 497 00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:51.519 out what's going on this week on golf Smarter Mulligans, and then we'll come 498 00:33:51.519 --> 00:33:57.839 back and continue our conversation with Joe Canfield talking about fairways RM. This week 499 00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.559 on Golf Smarter Mulligans, we bring back like a fascinating conversation with golf course 500 00:34:01.720 --> 00:34:07.880 architect Tripp Davis in an episode we call how the PGA Tour impacts golf course 501 00:34:07.960 --> 00:34:14.159 design. The excitement level on the PGA Tour in terms of the number of 502 00:34:14.159 --> 00:34:19.280 players that golfers around the world can identify with and or it excites new people 503 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.760 into the game. It certainly doesn't hurt I think from a golf course construction 504 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:28.039 perspective. You know, in general, I think what it does follow more 505 00:34:28.119 --> 00:34:31.000 so than anything, is the economy. The last boom really prior of the 506 00:34:31.639 --> 00:34:37.760 late fifties early sixties, was in the twenties, and they're in another economic 507 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:40.159 band in the United States that timeframe. Actually, you know, we had 508 00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:45.039 Bobby Jones and Walter Hagen and so forth. But you know, if you 509 00:34:45.079 --> 00:34:49.239 look at the period in the thirties and forties and even early fifties when you 510 00:34:49.320 --> 00:34:52.559 had Hogan and Sneed and mister Nelson, there was a broad interest in the 511 00:34:52.599 --> 00:34:55.559 game following those guys that you didn't see much in the way of golf course 512 00:34:55.599 --> 00:34:59.320 development specif the economy, what do they get? Why did you refer to 513 00:34:59.360 --> 00:35:02.559 him as mister Elson and the other guys by their first nap. You'll have 514 00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:07.480 to check out episode two hundred and thirty one of Golf Smarter Mulligans to hear 515 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:12.679 his response, Part one of two featuring golf course architect Trip Davis on our 516 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:17.320 sister podcast, Golf Smarter Mulligans, being released this Friday morning. Originally published 517 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:22.840 in February of twenty twelve. So if improving your game with Golf Smarter only 518 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:28.559 once per week isn't enough, then don't miss the chance to get two episodes 519 00:35:28.719 --> 00:35:34.039 every week with golf Smarter, the golf podcast that focuses on how to improve 520 00:35:34.199 --> 00:35:38.519 your game, not what's happening on the tour, and Golf Smarter Mulligan's episodes 521 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:44.679 from our archives that revisit the best of Golf Smarter. They're both available for 522 00:35:44.719 --> 00:35:53.159 free from wherever you're listening right now, Joe, Not all businesses are generating 523 00:35:53.280 --> 00:35:59.440 sales in the millions of dollars. They're they're companies that have smaller Maybe they're 524 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:01.960 being core by vendors who want to You know, if you have a retail 525 00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:07.000 business or something. But what are the type if you want to take, 526 00:36:07.159 --> 00:36:15.199 you know, treat a customer to to a golf trip. Right, you 527 00:36:15.360 --> 00:36:21.079 guys have played once before locally, you I played another time. You're really 528 00:36:21.159 --> 00:36:24.800 enjoying each other, You're seeing that you're getting closer to closing something. You 529 00:36:24.840 --> 00:36:30.400 can really bring it up. What are kind of trips that work? Yeah, 530 00:36:30.440 --> 00:36:37.920 golf trips slash business outings. Absolutely, Yeah, it depends and it'll 531 00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:40.119 depend on how serious of a golfer that person is. Right, But okay, 532 00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:44.800 any anybody's gonna love and invite to a place like Bandon Dudes, they're 533 00:36:44.800 --> 00:36:49.159 gonna love and invite out to you know, Qua or any of these places 534 00:36:49.199 --> 00:36:52.639 that are these golf resorts that have hosted types of tournaments that are kind of 535 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:58.400 cemented in golf lore if you will, you know, if you follow uh 536 00:36:59.239 --> 00:37:04.440 it's the golfer's journal. They are always putting on events that these courses that 537 00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.119 are that are just incredible. Some of them are exclusive. They you know 538 00:37:07.159 --> 00:37:09.280 they're exclusive clubs. But you know, take a look at you know, 539 00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:14.599 Golf Digest put top one hundred golf courses. Anybody's gonna love an invite there 540 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:19.559 and a lot of These places have been built around the idea of stay and 541 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:23.159 play, and when you're not playing, there's things for you to do. 542 00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:27.679 There's places for you to go to dinner, there's other activities and things like 543 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:32.079 that, and these types of things that the golf trip you always leave those 544 00:37:32.159 --> 00:37:37.360 with incredible memories. Whether whether you're the one paying for it or not. 545 00:37:37.480 --> 00:37:42.199 Obviously it's it's better if it's being paid for for you and you're you're out 546 00:37:42.199 --> 00:37:45.480 there having a great time on somebody else's time. You know, I always 547 00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:49.840 appreciate that. But even when you're hosting somebody, you build these memories with 548 00:37:49.920 --> 00:37:53.079 them, and you build these relationships that make it so that the business comes 549 00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:57.719 easy. They're ready to go. They understand you, they know you as 550 00:37:57.719 --> 00:37:59.840 a person, they know that you're going to be able to come through for 551 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:05.159 that in any type of situation. These are things that we always look at 552 00:38:05.199 --> 00:38:09.679 when we're doing these golf trips. If you've got a company, a small 553 00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:16.639 company, large company, retail, whatever it is, should you have a 554 00:38:16.639 --> 00:38:22.559 percentage of your marketing budget set aside for golf? Yeah? I mean any 555 00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:28.320 company will know what their cost them sales is right and right if you can 556 00:38:28.400 --> 00:38:32.599 take I always say, look at where you're spending money and where it is 557 00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:37.119 productive. Right. You know, a really good online advertising campaign is going 558 00:38:37.159 --> 00:38:42.280 to get you about a ten percent, maybe a five to ten percent conversion 559 00:38:42.360 --> 00:38:46.280 rate, right, Whereas a golf trip you take eight people out, you 560 00:38:46.320 --> 00:38:52.119 can probably jump that up to seventy eighty percent on your conversion rate. Wright. 561 00:38:52.320 --> 00:38:54.480 Because you've built these closed, face to face relationships, you've had the 562 00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:00.400 time to sit down and like talk through a lot of the issues that may 563 00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.760 come up, right, And so it's so much easier to have those in 564 00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:07.840 person, face to face conversations. And when you're on the golf course, 565 00:39:07.920 --> 00:39:10.559 one of the things we talk about is how to bring these kinds of things 566 00:39:10.639 --> 00:39:15.199 up without making it feel salesy. Right, Where can I add value for 567 00:39:15.239 --> 00:39:17.079 you? Let me listen to what this person has to say, so I 568 00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:22.039 know that when it comes time to do business, I can tell them exactly 569 00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:24.599 the value that I'm going to deliver and how it's going to fix their pain 570 00:39:24.639 --> 00:39:29.280 points. Right. It's no longer a generic message that you hope gets in 571 00:39:29.480 --> 00:39:31.920 the front of the right person. You know that the message you're sharing is 572 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.320 getting in front of the person that needs to be in front of Yeah, 573 00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:43.519 yeah, so wow, I you know, it's true. You're really going 574 00:39:43.599 --> 00:39:47.800 to look at the percentage of what your sales are, you know, and 575 00:39:47.840 --> 00:39:52.079 what you've put into it. It makes a lot of sense to do it 576 00:39:52.119 --> 00:39:57.079 that way. Yeah, I mean. And another crazy interesting stat that we've 577 00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.159 come across when doing all this is that people have found that it's up to 578 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:07.039 twenty five times more expensive to generate new business than it is to maintain current 579 00:40:07.079 --> 00:40:10.960 clients. And so when you think about it in that realm, you're going, 580 00:40:12.119 --> 00:40:15.119 Okay, if I can make it. Only if I can cut that 581 00:40:15.199 --> 00:40:21.400 number in half by taking people golfing, taking people on golf trips and retreats 582 00:40:21.400 --> 00:40:24.079 and things like that, you've already saved the money, right, And it's 583 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:29.800 hard for businesses to wrap their heads around because it's the savings over over generating 584 00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.159 revenue. It's a lot of business leaders and a lot of accountants CFOs they 585 00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:38.639 have a hard time seeing the cost savings versus bringing in actual top line revenue. 586 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:46.239 Right, yeah, absolutely absolutely. How do people find you and what 587 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:51.239 do you base your fees on? A percentage on the size of the company 588 00:40:51.320 --> 00:40:52.920 or do you have flat fees? How do you work this? Yeah? 589 00:40:52.960 --> 00:40:57.719 So if we're doing a retreat, it depends on the location obviously that will 590 00:40:57.800 --> 00:41:00.519 vary a little bit with that, but we can do those stars at only 591 00:41:00.559 --> 00:41:04.159 two thousand dollars per person. You can come out here to Utah. We 592 00:41:04.199 --> 00:41:07.960 play beautiful golf courses like Soldier Hollow Wassatch Stay in Midway, Utah, which 593 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.559 is just a beautiful area. We also do them down in Las Vegas over 594 00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:16.639 the winter. We utilize a golf course called Angel Park down there, which 595 00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.880 is fantastic. They've got two eighteen whole courses. They're beautiful practice facility, 596 00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:28.159 awesome people and people like Vegas. Let's let's not lie here, yeah right, 597 00:41:28.159 --> 00:41:31.800 exactly, it's fun. We're looking for an excuse, yeah right. 598 00:41:32.719 --> 00:41:37.519 And then we do some one on one coaching and that's we have four and 599 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:40.239 eight week courses and those are between four and eight hundred dollars, so it's 600 00:41:40.239 --> 00:41:45.039 all really affordable. You get some one on one time with me. And 601 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:46.719 then when we do come to companies, it just kind of depends on if 602 00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:51.639 we're traveling, what courses we're utilizing and things like that, so varies a 603 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:55.119 little bit, you know, and if you're in sales, it doesn't matter 604 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:00.320 what your product is, and most likely you're going to be selling something different 605 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:05.320 in five years than you're selling today. You know, if you're a salesperson, 606 00:42:05.440 --> 00:42:10.360 you do sales no matter what your product is because you understand that sales 607 00:42:10.599 --> 00:42:15.199 is relationship based. Yep. Absolutely, So it may be the type of 608 00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.880 thing if you're a salesperson, it may be the type of thing that you 609 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:27.840 want to look into taking these courses and getting a fuller understanding of what you 610 00:42:27.880 --> 00:42:31.679 can bring to the table as a salesperson to wherever you're working. Yeah, 611 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:36.280 Like, like we said, it's a marketable skill. It's it's marketable just 612 00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:39.800 as graphic design and anything else is in our opinion, And for anybody who's 613 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.400 hesitant, they don't want to get in and spend the you know, eight 614 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.239 hundred dollars to go through a course, we do have online courses that started 615 00:42:46.559 --> 00:42:51.280 at forty bucks a month. There you go, and so that's a good 616 00:42:51.320 --> 00:42:53.119 way to just get a start and to get an idea of what it is 617 00:42:53.199 --> 00:42:57.519 you would be learning from us in person. Yeah, get your toes wet 618 00:42:57.559 --> 00:43:00.760 absolutely absolutely well. Okay, so how do people find you? So it's 619 00:43:00.800 --> 00:43:06.400 all at our website just Fairways, RM dot com it's all on there, 620 00:43:06.440 --> 00:43:09.159 and our online course went live. We're actually working on another one right now. 621 00:43:09.199 --> 00:43:13.960 We talked a little bit earlier about gambling, but we're building a guide 622 00:43:13.960 --> 00:43:15.880 to games and gambling that we're going to be putting on there here pretty soon. 623 00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:20.119 So wow, we're hoping that that will be a hit. We think 624 00:43:20.159 --> 00:43:22.239 it will be. I mean, I know a lot of people have questions 625 00:43:22.239 --> 00:43:25.920 around it, but that that one's gonna be fun. Yeah. And social 626 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:30.559 media if we want to follow you guys have Fairways RM on Instagram. That's 627 00:43:30.559 --> 00:43:36.280 the only one we really utilize as far as that goes. LinkedIn is Fairways 628 00:43:36.360 --> 00:43:39.760 Relationship Management. Ah, so that answers my next question. What was our 629 00:43:39.880 --> 00:43:44.679 m Yeah, yeah, relationship it's a mouthful, so we decided to put 630 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:50.360 it together. We'll just go ourn that works. Fairways RM Relationship Management. 631 00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.840 It's a it's a great idea, it's a great service, it's a great 632 00:43:54.880 --> 00:44:00.199 conversation. I really appreciate you coming on and talk to me to day. 633 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:02.239 This was a lot of fun. Thank you, best of luck. Yeah, 634 00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:05.960 thanks for having me. This is no pleasure. It's always it's always 635 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.280 fun to talk golf, no matter who it's left. So this has been 636 00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:15.239 fantastic. I do want to thank and welcome this week's Golf Smarter Ambassador, 637 00:44:15.320 --> 00:44:20.760 Ron Salvati from Westchester, Ohio. Ron wrote to me asking about Tony Manzoni's 638 00:44:20.840 --> 00:44:24.519 video, and instead of purchasing it, he received it for free by calling 639 00:44:24.519 --> 00:44:30.840 our toll free Golf Smarter listener line and recording this week's show open. You 640 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:34.920 can too, and when you do, you'll have a choice of a free 641 00:44:34.960 --> 00:44:38.599 gift. Check out today's show notes to see more and links about each gift 642 00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:43.920 you have to choose from, whether it's Tony's video, a box of Odin 643 00:44:44.199 --> 00:44:46.760 X one balls with a Golf Smarter logo, or a glove and glove storage 644 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:52.280 compartment from Red Rooster golf dot com. So when you write to me with 645 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:57.840 a question, comment, or a suggestion about future guests, don't be surprised 646 00:44:57.840 --> 00:45:02.000 when I ride back with an answer and my pitch to open a future episode. 647 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.159 Right to Golfsmarter podcast at gmail dot com, or click on the Hey 648 00:45:07.280 --> 00:45:10.960 Fred button when you visit Golfsmarter dot com.