This episode may contain content of a graphic nature, including descriptions of physical and
sexual violence against adults, children, and animals. Listener discretion is advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Talia and I'm Tanya, and together we are Crimes and
Consequences, a true crime podcast. Hi everyone, welcome to Crimes and Consequences.
My name is Talia and this is my lovely co host, Tanya.
Welcome back, everyone, Welcome back. We have a great story and we're
thrilled to be on True Crime Daily. Thank you for everybody that has supported
us. This story that we're getting into is a Michigan story. It's one
that I dealt with actually, kind of on the peripheral of when I was
working at the Attorney General's office a long time ago, ages ago, not
that long. If you haven't done so already, subscribe, follow like us,
join our patreonpatreon, dot com, slash tnt Crimes and can get many
more episodes just like this. But with that said, are you ready for
some true crime? I am. Let's get into it. This one.
This one's bad, this one's rough, it's it's got some some nasty things.
And it was a cold case, which I love cold cases. I
love the cold cases are salt and it's solved. Yes, So let's get
a spoiler alert. It's solved. This is about the terrifying Duval brothers,
and I'm going to go through the whole family because it's pretty scary. There's
seven of them. It's but the point, the focus of the story is
about the victims. And I want to be clear. There were two David
Till and Brian Adgen. These were two best friends. They met each other
in fourth grade and they were close ever since. They lived in the Detroit
area of Michigan. And so you have in Michigan. I don't know if
a lot of people know this, but we have what's called deer hunting season.
Oh yeah, it's very popular, very very popular. I mean people
on average we get eight hundred thousand people coming over for deer hunting season.
So in this case, it went cold for eighteen years as to what happened
to David and Brian during the hunting season. And I'm gonna explain to you
what happened, but I want to give you some background on them. So
it takes place in November nineteen eighty five, and as I said, they
met in fourth grade, they had this trip that they would do yearly with
some family members and they would go up north because everybody goes up north.
Michigan's a mitten and they would go like up north hunting, and up north
is pretty much to me, anything north of Detroit, anything, yes,
and they yeah. So David till he was a machinist, and he lived
in Troy, Michigan, which is not far from where we are right now.
And Brian Ogden Ogen, Brian Ogen, forgive me, I'm so horrible
with names. I apologize. Agen. He lived in Saint Clair Shores,
which isn't It's not that they're not that far from each other. And he
was a mechanic. David got married when he was nineteen, and Brian was
single, but he was dating a woman named Janice. And originally these two
friends were going to go to a place called White Cloud, Michigan. They
were going to go there. And for those that aren't familiar with Michigan,
it's here, white Cloud's here. Let's go with it, okay, yeap
wit. And that's a very touristy area. The western part of Michigan is
very touristy because you have like Michigan and will love to go, you know,
to the lakes and everything. And that's where David tills. He had
a cabin and his family they had a cabin there too. He had a
brother named Matt. They were going to meet up with Matt and David's dad
and some friends. And what guys do is they just have a lot of
drinks, a lot of haunting, and it's just like probably a lot of
good food. I would think, guys time, I've never done. It's
guy's time. It's guys time. So we're on the weekend of November twenty
second, nineteen eighty five, David went to Brian's house to pick up Brian
and they were going to drive together in David's Bronco. He got there around
two o'clock and Brian was sleeping because Brian often worked nights, worked late,
and so Brian wasn't awake. It took them a little bit of time to
get ready and they were getting ready to go to White Cloud. But they
had this mutual friend named Dennis, and Dennis he lived if you're looking at
the Minten Okay, he lived on the other side of where white Cloud would
be. And they decided they would meet up with Matt at David Hill's cabin,
family cabin maybe the next day in White Cloud, but they were going
to go to a place called Mile and meet their friend Dennis. And Dennis
this is back in the day when there were no Google right anything. Yeah,
and Dennis had written a map to get there and to give you a
little idea of Mile. Mile has a population of two thousand people. Oh,
very small, very very tiny. It's in Ascota County. It's got
one stop light in the whole county and the whole county city. No,
the whole county, county, entire county. Yes, it might know because
I did this case. One stop like the whole county, so that tells
you. And it's very beautiful, but it's not a touristy area. It's
more it has more poverty because it's not the touristy area. I've never been
there, but I've driven through it like past. It's it's very beautiful,
but for some reason, the west side is where people end up going in
Michigan. They actually leave about five o'clock. Right before they leave, David
calls his brother and they don't have cell phones, keep in mind, and
so he calls from Brian's house and he says, you know what, we
might not make it there till Saturday, okay, And they decide to go
see their friend Dennis. And when they went to do that, I should
say this, Dennis didn't actually draw the map. A guy named David Jacob
did. He made the map and he out a major highway. Oh no,
he forgot to put in M thirty three. But somehow they made it
to Mio and they found a bar called Walker's Bar and Bowling Alley, and
they went and they had some drinks at Walker's Bowling Alley. They met somebody
and there's a lot of David's So they met a guy named David Welch and
we'll just call him Welch. And they asked David basically, hey, where
is a place to have a good time around here? But they're in Mio.
I mean it's like, yeah, that is probably the place the bowling
at the bowling Alley. They wanted to maybe just hang out, party,
flirt with women, you know, and mister Welch told him the bowling Alley
is not the place to be. Oh no, there was a place down
the road. And Brian went to the place down the road where David stayed
and the place was called Northwood Gardens. And while Brian was there, he
saw some ladies and he was flirting with them. This is according to the
people that worked there. And he wrote something down on a piece of paper
and handed it to a woman. We don't know what he wrote down,
but she didn't like it. Oh no, yeah, and they got up
and laughed, and Brian felt pretty jaded. So he went back to see
David and mister Welch at the Walker's Bar and Bowling Alley. By that time,
David Till was intoxicated. And that's okay, of course, I mean
that's what they're up there for. That's okay, Yes, good guy,
I am not judging him. And they're still trying to find their friend Dennis,
like where does Dennis live? And they stopped someone they saw and they
asked him, do you know Dennis because it's a small town. And the
guy was like no, but he said, you'd have a better chance of
finding him if your map wasn't upside down. Oh oh no, whoops,
I've been there. Yeah. I'm horrible with directions. Actually, I mean
terrible. I think that GPS was invented and now and I still get lost
night occasionally. I mean, I'm bad. And he this guy did notice
that they had an empty twelve pack of beer in the bronco, so they
were drinking on the way and they're in mile, they're hanging out. No
one knows what's on the note. They ended up being I mean, honestly,
they end up getting ship faced. They laughed about the fact that the
map was upside down. I mean, they are the boondocks. They ended
up crashing somewhere I don't nowhere, But when it came Saturday morning, they
were really hungover. Oh, really hungover. So they went back to the
Bowling Alley and they kind of nursed their hangover at the bowling Alley and they
made some jokes about how they felt like grab That was pretty close to the
last sighting of them, but not completely. But that's one of the last
times they interacted with people. They're nursing their hangover, and I think they're
doing it. What's the name where you what is it hair of the dog
or hair the hair of the dog. They ended up going to a place
called Linkers, and they were at Linkers and some people accused them of grabbing
girls, but her name was Barb. It was actually Brian that allegedly grabbed
Barbes. But and then there was accusations that David Till while Barb was playing
pool, rubbed up against her. I don't know if any of that is
true, but I mean, she claimed she was leaning over the pool table
playing pool and she didn't like how he was being so flirty. One of
the workers at Linkers, it's called Linkers lost lap Lah, Linkers lost Ladge,
And that's why we haven't said the whole the whole name. Her name
was Cindy, and Cindy said they came in and that they were kind of
being a bit obnoxious because they were intoxicated. At one point, David Till
tried to pay the bill and Brian said to Cindy, if you let him
pay the bill, I'm gonna smack you. But I'm sure he was just
joking around. And that's pretty much one of the last recorded times they were
seen. David Till's wife, Sunday Night, became really worried because they were
supposed to be back. He had work on Monday, and he was always
very punctional, punctual, and he didn't come back, and so she contacted
the police the next morning on Monday. I mean, she was concerned and
then she called the family and the family said, you know, they never
made it Toy Cloud. Then I would be like, oh, oh right,
oh something happened. Oh shit. And so they started searching for these
guys. And when I say searching, they hired helicopters to look for them.
They were concerned that maybe they never made it, maybe they had a
car accident on the way, because they don't even know that they made it
to Mile because they never found Dunnis. Oh that's right. They have no
idea, you know, where they're at. And like I said, Matt's
like, they never made it to White Cloud. Then their first assumption was
a car accident. It's got to be a car accident because it's a lot
of backroads, it's winter, it's November, and so that's what they thought.
Eventually, with the help of friends and they contacted the police, they
realized that they did make it to Mile. But you have to remember Mile
and this whole area goes from having like two thousand people population to eight hundred
thousand people coming in. So there's this influx of men. I mean,
let's be honest, they're mostly men, and it was really hard to pinpoint
exactly where Brian and David were. And there were a couple of people that
thought they saw in there, but this case ended up being cold for eighteen
years. They just vanished, disappeared. The bronco that David drove never was
found. Let me tell you something I failed to mention to you about the
town of Mile That is where the Devale brothers live. Scary scary Dvall brothers,
and there's a lot of them. There's seven. So I'm going to
go from what I described as the least offensive and kind of work our way
up into the more interesting characters in the family. The Devall brothers were the
proud offspring of Raymond Duvall and his wife Shirley. She went by Whorli.
So there were seven Devall brothers and one daughter named Sissy. The youngest of
the Dvall brothers, his name was Kenny. And let me give you a
little insight into Kenny, because he's a baby of the family, right,
you don't want to be the baby of the brother No. When Kenny was
little, for fun, the Devall brothers tied him up with rope and hoisted
him onto a tree and left him there just for shits and giggles, you
know, Yeah, torture your younger brother, I guess is hilarious. He
was arrested in nineteen eighty three for spousal abuse, stocking his wife, breaking
and entering, and at the time he was smoking crack. Oh boy,
Okay. He ended up getting clean in his defense, and he started a
company called you call we Haul. Oh that's a great name, right,
Yeah, and he enjoyed taking a power cars. Then there was Tommy.
He also went by Worm. Do they all have nicknames? Pretty much?
A lot of them? A lot of them do worm? And I don't
want you to be confused later because there's another person with a nickname worm.
Are you kidding me? Swarm the worm? Hey, it's popular nickname.
Apparently. I don't have a lot of information on Tommy, and I don't
really need a lot. It's fine. Next we have Frank. Frank was
arrested and convicted for criminal sexual conduct. Oh no, in an incident with
his friend's fifteen year old daughter. Yeah, criminal sexual conduct is underaged victims.
Yeah, he was thirty two and he was an habitual offender. I
don't know exactly where all his a enes were, but he had warns all
over the place for him, and he once yelled out, all I did
was transport the bodies. Oh that's all just you know. So that's Frank.
Okay, Now we have Randy. Randy was able to scrap this is
what he's known for six and a half cars from January first to May twenty
third, like quickly. I don't know if it's scrap competition, I don't
know. I just I don't know. If it's bragging rights, I don't
know. But that was one of the things he was known for, being
able to scrap a car really fast. Okay, Well, and he was
seen driving a Bronco. Uh. Oh. He helped Kenny start a legitimate
business, and so some of the Duval brothers moved to Monroe County. Oh
that's Southlake Toledo border in Ohio border. Yeah. Yeah, yes, So
you have some up here and then some down here trying to make legitimate life.
I guess you got to get away from my Oh probably, I'm guessing
Randy and Kenny ended up putting missing flyers for the hunters at their business.
Okay, Okay, now we have Rex also known as Rexy. Oh Sexy,
Rexy. No, no, no, no, Rexy had lots of
pigs. Oh no, he had a favorite pig. He had a favorite
pig, and he let that favorite pig stay in their house. Are we
talking like little tiny pigs? Are we talking about talking about a pig?
A pig. He had a a big, old farm pig. Okay,
those pigs, they're they're huge. I don't know if you have you seen
one in real life? Yes, a pig, A pig in real life.
Girl. You know, some people don't get out to the country and
they're huge. Okay, Okay, I had a favorite pig, and that
pig was able to stay in his house and pretty much run things. Okay,
I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Okay, he had the run of the
house. It wasn't a little pig like on Green Acres, right, No,
little little Arnold. I remember that show. So anyway, okay,
we are digressing. Yeah, I'm sorry. Rex had a daughter and she
shared some stories later about when her uncles would come over, they would go
to the basement and she would hear chainsaws, and they would come back from
the basement with five gallon buckets filled with red raw meat, and they would
go feed their pigs because there were more pigs. Okay. Rex had a
wife named Sharon, and they had an abandoned bus in their backyard. And
do you know what they kept in the bus? No, thirteen pigs the
bus. The pigs lived in the bus, yes, thirteen of them.
Yes, Okay, buses aren't that big. Okay, Well, I don't
know. I don't know. You can have how many kids? Yeah?
But kids? Okay, you're right, I don't know. Maybe they cleared
out. I am just reporting. Okay, you're allowing bus. Well,
they got it. I don't know what they're living. Okay, we just
moved on. That was a rhetorical question. I'm sorry, I'm really I'm
really like stuck on these pigs. Okay, anyway, back to the story.
We're pretty sure Rex had something to do with the disappearance of the Hunters,
just so you know. But Rex died when he passed away in twenty
twelve. Okay, I have his obituary. Oh all right, let's hear
it. He was an avid outdoorsman who appreciated his vacation time. Who doesn't,
girl, I love my vacation time. I think he was unemployed,
I'm not trying to be rude, but his whole vacation a perpetrator in this
case. And yes, he liked horseshoes, fishing, boating, hunting,
turtle trapping, and NASCAR. That's it. And then in their obituary they
wrote that he was a bit bullheaded at times. He must have been real
stubborn. Please don't write that on my obituary. Just say nice things.
You don't have to be honest. I think obituary should be honest. Really,
yes, she was a bit sometimes she was a real pain in the
ass. Well, you know, if they're writing he was a bit bullheaded,
he was a lot. He was very bullheaded. Right, So who
raised these wonderful boys? Well we'll get to that, but I do have
to mention another particular boy, Jr. When Jr. Was thirteen, you
know, he's his dad's namesake, Raymond Raymond. Oh, I get it,
JR. It's kind of sad. He saw his dad beating early oh,
and he was beating the shit out of Whirly. So he grabbed a
gun twenty two and he shot his dad at thirteen. Wow. Both his
dad and mom had to go to the hospital and they both survived and then
he didn't get in trouble because the police said it was its self defense.
And it kind of was a joke in the family about Raymond Senior beating Worly.
In fact, one of the jokes made was that two of her boys
were born with black eyes. Oh, that's hilarious. That's horrible. Yes,
it's horrible. It's horrible. That just gives you like an idea of
what this family is like, right, And that was kind of a trend
with all the brothers. They enjoyed beating up women. So I'm gonna talk
to you a little bit, a little bit about j R. Raymond Junior.
He was born November eleventh, nineteen fifty. He got married as a
teenager and he went to Vietnam and he served our country. He was part
of the military police. He had a string of failed marriages and need a
bunch of different kids. One he named Doobie. No, No, I
love Saint Doobey. You know, I do like St. Doobey. Yeah,
Doobie, Okay, And then he had Tom. Doobey was later interviewed
an investigation to see what he might know and you know, any involvement with
what happened with the Hunters. He was only seventeen when he was interviewed,
and he was in the County Youth Home being held for criminal sexual assault along
with other ties. Wonderful. And in nineteen ninety eight he became a homicide
suspect. There was a body found on the railroad tracks in Monroe. And
as I told you, the Duval brothers, they hang out in Monroe County
and then they're in Mio. A man was put on his body was put
on the railroad tracks and they tried first thought it was suicide, but then
it appeared to be murder linked to do be. Doobie talked about his violent
childhood and how he was raped by some male relatives. No, which is
sad. Yeah, that's terrible. When he was eleven, he started doing
drugs probably yeah, to deal with the trauma, right, And he said,
basically, my family is straight out of a movie. And do you
know what movie? He described? I have a guess what deliverance? Yes?
Yes, yeah? Did yikes? He did. That's very scary.
So Doobie was jr. Son and I haven't completely gotten into JR. And
then he has a son, Tom. Tom would strangle and beat his girlfriend
and one time Tom he went by. Tommy thought his girlfriend was getting out
of control. In nineteen ninety seven, and now remember this already took place
in nineteen eighty five. He told his dad, you know, go ahead
and tell my girlfriend what we do to women. And his dad said,
we've killed before and we'll kill again. Oh wow, terrifying. Yeah.
Jr. Had a girlfriend, her name was Eileen, for ten years and
they had two children. They lived on a dirt road in a shack with
a dirt floor. Wow, in nineteen eighty five. And it's it's sad
because it was basically a hut and it got really cold and they would talk
about how cold it was. I mean, in all the information, and
I got a lot of my information from this book called Darker That Darker than
Night by Tom Henderson. He is a local writer and he wrote a great
book on this. Jr's girl friend, Eileen and him were together for like
I said, almost ten years, and he would beat her all the time.
Eileen was with him when the Hunters died and she moved out on her
own. Eventually she's like, I'm out and she married a guy named Nelson
Boltzman. Okay, Eileen didn't do much better with Nelson. Nelson ended up
being charged with her murder. Oh. No, in nineteen eighty five.
Wow, he was charged in Mcomb County, oh which is where we lived.
Yes, And he wrote a letter to the Macomb County prosecutor. And
in his letter he stated that he was wrongly convicted and that she was murdered
by the Deval brothers because she knew too much about the unsolved disappearance of David
and Brian. Oh, and that she was murdered because of that information.
And everybody agrees that Eileen probably had a lot of information, but they don't
agree that the Duval brothers killed her. And let me tell you why.
Well, they were probably people you could easily pin a murder on, right.
I mean, they don't sound like they're angels by any means, and
so it was probably easy for him to be like, it wasn't me.
Well, I got the court case for Nelson, his murder case, and
here's some evidence to show you kind of why he he did it. They
were on a canoe trip, Nelson was with Eileen. Witnesses saw them arguing
in the pickup truck. The next morning, her body was found on the
road one block from the home that they'd been staying at. They were staying
at like a friend's house. She was beaten to strangled with Nelson's shirt wrapped
around her neck, and he was found sleeping passed out drunk one hundred yards
away in his truck from her body. So they were not at their house
usually right, they were off on a canoe trip. So the Deval brothers
supposedly tracked her down on this canoe trip, yes, and strangled and somehow
got Shelson's yes okay. And he had threatened earlier that day to kill her,
and he had a history of choking and beating her, and only a
few hours before her death, in front of other people, he said he
was going to kill her. I mean, you can judge for yourself.
Yeah, but he's in jail prison. So let's go back to when Jr.
Was with Eileen. They had some between six and thirteen pigs. Okay,
I don't get hung up on them. I'm not. I'm past it.
Ti is an alcoholic. He had lots of outstanding warns for his arrest,
and he didn't have a page child sport. He had some DUIs.
There's this very interesting story about JR. He was part of a motorcycle gang.
Interesting. I don't only know how I'm gonna say it all and be
great, but be YouTube friendly, okay, okay, Yes, So he
hung out with these motorcycle buddies and on a dare he ate pig shit okay,
And he never denied that, just kind of dare, like not even
for money. I mean, not that I would do it, but I'm
just saying, okay, go ahead. It's also believed that he kissed pigs
genitals for five dollars. Oh well, at least he made money there,
stop it, sorry, and eventually not to go to forward. But there's
testimony from another brother who said, my brother had a pet pig and it
came in and now and did whatever it wanted to do, more or less,
and it backed its ass up against a wood stove and it burned its
privates. That's not the word he used, and that was a direct quote
from court testimony. JR. Spoke about it in court and he said he
passed out near the pig pen and when he woke up, the pig's private
parts were in his face. But others have said that for five dollars he
kissed the pig's private parts, and he was teased about it all the time.
Yeah, sounds it's a gatty great story. So I've left out one
brother, Coco. Coco. His name was Donald. You want to say
what's but he went by Coco. Okay. Nineteen fifty two he was born.
He got married to a woman named Georgia. The first year they were
married, he broke her jaw, wow, and he broke her nose.
And when he was asked later on how he made a living, he said,
firewood and welfare. Oh. Perfect. He got divorced in nineteen seventy
six, and he got to keep the dogs, the pigs, and the
chickens, and he had cows running around in his backyard. He was an
alcoholic, but he did not do drugs. Uh. There's a story of
Coco and Jr. Oh, I can't wait for this. One time they
went to a party and they decided at the party to fight each other for
fun. Okay, I'm gonna beat the shit out of my brother for fun,
for fun. During the fight, Coco breaks Jr's nose and blood squirts
everywhere. JR. Says, time out, time out, time out.
We need to reschedule this for tomorrow. Reschedule My nose is all fucked up.
Sure, that's how the events were described. Coco says, okay,
tomorrow at noon, high noon. They've got it. So they get there
and j R. Says, okay, there's just one rule. You can't
punch me in the nose, okay, because you just broke it. So
where's the first place he punches him? Go punches him, of course and
none. No, of course, you want to win the fight, don't
you. You got to take out your opponent's weakness. I mean, you
should have just never said anything. So every fourth of July, the the
balls would have a Fourth of July pig ro You know, they have beer
and guns and they kill a pig and there'd be lots of fireworks. In
fact, some people blew off fingers. Oh are you surprised? But at
one time it ended up there wasn't going to be enough meat. And this
is a true story. The whole ass pig and there's not enough meat.
I don't know. But they get a lot of friends. I don't know,
So Rex Jr. And Rex's mom worly they get into a jeep and
they're driving around and they spot a neighbor's cow. Don't tell me. They
stopped the truck. They shoot the cow in the head, and then Jr.
Took a chainsaw what right then and there and cut the cow in half
on the field, and then they loaded it up and brought it back to
the party. Wow. If I was the neighbor, that's a true story.
Damn. The Devals had a really close friend named Schwarm. Sherm,
Oh, this is sher the Worm. Sure the worm, Yes, and
he was a very scary guy too. A man named David Henry Johnson told
investigators that one time Schwarm the Worm was in a store and David Henry Johnson's
wife was there. Her name was Kimberly, and he pushed her up against
the wall and started mumbling something about killing pigs at it's just at a grocery
store. Yeah, and then he put his hands on her and said he
could rape her whenever he wanted, and there was nothing she could do about
it. David Henry Johnson confront and Shehrmed the worm and that's when Sherm the
Worm said, you know I can feed you to the pigs. Oh no.
So a woman named Connie Sandberg dated Cocoa for nine years, madam,
when she's sixteen, he's twenty seven. She told the story about how they
had broken up once and she was on a date with a local sheriff,
the a deputy's son, and when the deputy's son went to pick her up,
the Deval brothers showed up and kicked his ass with metal pipes. Oh
oh damn. These guys do not mess around. And nobody did anything about
it because everybody, everybody was afraid of the Dwal brothers. Well they sound
crazy. In Monroe, they silent. They were considered the Monroe mafia.
What okay that means? I get it. Connie once told the story of
a time when Coco got really shit faced, which short sh shirm the worm
and Jr. They threw him out of the door of the truck and he
landed in the dirt and he passed out in the dirt, and when he
woke up, she was there and he mumbled something about out how he killed
someone, and she said what, And then he said the next day.
The next day she asked him about it and he strangled her. So and
Mourner, don't ever fucking ask me about it again. And she didn't can't
blame her j R. He'd been with lots of different women. He was
with a woman named Donna and she was pregnant with his baby. He would
later beat her and then on labor day he dragged her around her mobile home
by her hair. So she left him. Good for her, Yeah,
but before she left it, she heard him talking to somebody about pigs and
people and hunters being missing, and she made a joke about how could you
feed someone to a pig. Pigs don't eat skulls, they don't. Well,
I mean, I looked it up. I'll tell you. Okay.
He beat her up, punched her, and said he was going to feed
hurt to the pigs. So a lot of people are scared. These Duval
brothers are talking about pigs. Blah blah blah. One of the investigators actually
reached out in this case to Michigan State University swine expert to find out if
it's possible for pigs to actually eat humans. The expert said that you would
need five or six pigs to be hungry for a few days, and then
they would probably eat a person in about three or four days. Oh wow,
unlike what we think about pigs and how they'll just need anything NonStop.
They actually do stop. And he said eventually about seventy two hours after eating
a human, they would excrete everything that they eight. This investigator his name
was Bronco Leneski. So we have a Bronco vehicle and we have Bronco Leneski
and he is actually the hero of this story. He worked for the state
police and on his spare time, because this is a cold case, very
cold case, on a spare time, he would investigate the case, asking
questions, stirring things up. He would knock go door to door and finally
he got a tip from someone who called in and said he needed to talk
to a woman named Barb. But he didn't Barbe's address, so he went
door to door. Well, I mean, there's two thousand people door to
door knocking trying to find Barb. It took some time, but eventually he
knocked on a door and said are you Barb? And the woman cracked it
open and said, you're going to get me killed. And she tried to
shut the door, but he kind of put its foot in and so he
came inside and eventually she bean talking to him about what she knew about the
hunters. She described. What she described ended up later out later on matching
what the Duval brothers shared in nineteen eighty six in Wickham, Michigan, at
a dinner with the Duval family find dinner conversation and friends. It took fifteen
years for Barb to come forward officially and discuss what happened. She was too
afraid to go on the record. I mean during that fifteen years, one
of her dogs got ran over by the a Duval brother another one was shot
in her front yard by Devall brother. She ran into the Devall brothers once
and they said, we know your granddaughters and they're real pretty oh, in
a threatening manner. Yeah. There was one hundred thousand dollars reward out there
for information leading to the you know, finding Brian and David, and Bronco
said Barb, now there's a one hundred thousand because she's telling him things off
the record. And she said the money is no good if I'm dead.
Good point, mm hmm. But eventually, after seventeen years, she agreed
to testify against the Daval brothers. She was probably scared shitless, right,
and this is what she said in court happened she was at Linker's Bar.
She was there with her friend, Ronnie Emery, who was celebrating his first
legal kill of a buck deer. Okay, and just so you know,
Ronnie is now dead. He was an alcoholic and he died by getting so
drunk he passed out on the road and someone ran over his head. Oh
no, Barr believes he was murdered, but we'll never know. We'll never
know. So on the night of the murders, Connie, who is Coco's
girlfriend, was dancing at the bar Linkers, and a tiff began between the
Deval brothers and Brian and David. Now Ronnie, Barb's friend knew when the
Devall brothers are angry, shots back, so he called the police. And
coincidentally, Barb was dating the police officer. And there's probably two a mile
I'm guessing, yeah, And he never showed up. He said he didn't
want to get involved with the bar fight that night, the police officer,
so he didn't show up. Okay, No, it'll sort itself out,
right. I guess Barb had been drinking a lot that night. She had
at least nine salty dogs. I don't know what that is, but Okay,
I don't know. It doesn't sound good and bloody Mary's Oh. While
she was at Linkers, she was sitting on a chair and there's a payphone
next to her and she overhears Jr. On the phone speaking with someone saying,
I'm gonna need your help. About forty five minutes later, Schworm Firm
Firm. The Worm showed up with someone else. I think it was Rex,
but I'm not for sure. They gave Bob. They gave Barb a
six pack of beer and told her she'd better get the hell out of there.
Bob, Barb, and Ronnie left. They went back to Barb's house
and it was about a mile away. They sat in Barb's living room and
they drank the beer and they watched Scarface. On a side note, Barb
has watched Scarface over two hundred times. Wow, it's a side note about
Barb. Wow. So they're watching this and they hear some sounds and Barb
opens the kids her kitchen window and the sounds you can hear more, And
Ronnie says, oh, I bet the hunters are getting their ass beat.
So the two go out the front door. They want to oh, yeah,
check it out. There has nothing to do in this town, so
I'm sure watching a fight is interesting. When they go out the front door,
there's a strange car there, and I believe it's one of the brother's
cars. It's a car there, and so they go back inside. They
go out the back door and they walk down about a quarter mile down this
path and there's a clearing. When they get to the clearing, they see
the Bronco and its lights are on and David Till is on his knees being
hit with a baseball bat. Oh no, he's trying to stand. He's
urinated himself and he's crying, please someone help, please stop. At the
same time, you have Brian being held by some men. The next thing
Barb sees is Coco swing a bat to David's head, and she described it
as exploding or disappearing. Oh no, oh, that's brutal. And the
Devale brothers told many people that they hit a man on the head and his
head split like a water moon. I'm sorry, this is really gruesome and
it's very upsetting. All this time, Brian is, Oh, he's watching
his friends best friend, childhood best friend. They've known each other forever,
fourth grade. Brian manages to escape. He does, but the Ball Brothers
caught up with him, dragged him back. They beat him. They beat
him even when he wasn't moving anymore. Barb and Ronnie take off down the
path and they go back to Barb's house. About five minutes later, there's
a knock on their door. Oh, it was the Ball brothers and they
said, quote, we know, we know you, we know where you
live. And pigs got to eat too. That is terrifying, terrifying.
Is this fucking horrible? Yeah, this is so. The Attorney General's office
in two thousand and two had taken on this case and I worked there at
the time. It was a huge breakthrough and they decided to go ahead and
prosecute. Even though they had nobody, no DNA, never found the Bronco,
they still went ahead and did it. It just had circumstantial evidence right
based on mostly yeah testy, basically good Barb. Donna Panograss was the one
that actually prosecuted it, and she's an amazing She was an amazing assistant in
Attorney General. It took the jury only thirty minutes to find them guilty and
sentence them to life. So what Donna Penograss believes happened is after the murder,
the men were put in the bronco and then they were put through a
wood chipper, Oh my god, and then they were fed to the pigs.
And you know, I did tell you that the brothers are really good
at taking apart cars and had scrap bats, right scrapyards. That makes sense
that it that the bronco disappeared. And so that is the sad story of
David Till and Brian ogin Ougen. That is terrible. A wood chipper.
Oh, you know, we do these stories. I mean we're an episode
like two hundred and one billion, yeah something, and we have just almost
just as money in our Patreon And I'm not like, I'm still amazed and
shocked and horrified. I just or what for flirting? M A little obnoxious
flirting maybe, I mean. The prosecutors believe that the Duval brothers were very
aggressive at first with David and Brian, but then lured them out with marijuana.
Okay, because David and Brian had been asking people if you know where
any marijuana is, and then the Daval brothers were heard trying to get some
marijuana. So they believe that they probably faked being nice and lured them smoke
weed and that's how they got them there. I see that. That makes
a lot of sense. It's a really sad case. They're still alive and
in prison, and a lot of the Deval family is in prison and even
for other crimes, for other crimes, and even one of the females was
in is imprisoned for murder. Oh wow, crazy. The story is just
awful. I'm glad it was solved. I mean for the family, right,
Like, yeah, I'm sure my heart goes out to the families because
this is just a horrible yeah story and have your loved ones die that way
for nothing but to just be with a rumman. And these men got away
with telling everybody. Hey, you're telling everybody for eighteen years and people to
the pigs. Yeah, well that was horrible. Thanks to Leah. I
want to thank everybody for taking the time to listen to us, listen to
the story. If you haven't done so already, please hit the subscribes follow
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That's it. I think that's it. So I think you covered most
everything, and I'm sorry for the family. Yeah, my heart goes out
to them. So until our next episode, don't kill each other. Bye bye,