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Hello, and welcome to the show. We've got a great one for you

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tonight. First of all, the
first part of the show is uh were

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recorded, um, it was done
on Sunday, and I am very happy

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to have well, my former basically
newscaster Michael Luck is joining us. Alejandro

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Rojas is on a cruise as I
mentioned last week, and with h with

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Michael Luck, I have the one
and only Calvin Parker. We're gonna be

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talking about the Pascagoula incident, how
it all came about to where he's at

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today. There's a lot of things
going on and exciting things for Calvin and

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the case itself. We're going to
talk a bit about that. And after

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the first break, I have a
Charlotte man is going to be talking.

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Her grandfather was the one that was
involved in the Cape Girard Girardo. Thank

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you, Michael, Cape Girardo incident. You always did bail me out,

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Michael, Thank you. Incident back
in nineteen forty one. It was a

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reverend that came to all it's actually
summoned to a crash site to bless these

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small bodies. We're gonna be talking
all about that, and that starts after

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the first break. For now,
I think I will introduce the guests,

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the guy that just bailed me out, Michael Locke and Calvin Parker. Welcome,

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all right, thanks for having us, Martin, Yeah, thanks for

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having us. It's good to be
back. I know, Michael, I've

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spent a long time since you've been
on the show, right, A couple

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three four years? Maybe? Oh? Probably? Yeah, I've weird schedules

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always, so you know. And
the last time I think I was on,

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I was guest hosting for you,
so you weren't on. That's right,

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that's all right. I think with
Stanton Friedman maybe, yes, I'm

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the guy who interviewed stan Freedman.
And we didn't talk about UFOs, not

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even flying saucers. No, no, no, no, no, how

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about that. Now, we talked
about his career. It was great.

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Oh that's awesome. Well, now
I want to Michael, I want to

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thank you because this whole thing that
has happened with Calvin all started with you.

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You wrote a blog and back in
twenty thirteen about the Pasca Goula incident,

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and Calvin reached out to me about
that blog, and one thing led

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to another, and boy, hasn't
ever snowballed ever since? That hasn't it,

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Calvin, Oh, I guarantee you, it's been a real blessing this

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show to me. It put me
in touch with Philip and a lot of

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other things. And I mean it's
just gone wild. Every day something new

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comes up. I'm on Philip Phillip's
melling list, and I can't I can't

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get over it. It seems like
every day there's something major going on.

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Why don't you tell us what's happened? Since? What is going on?

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As far as you've been on news
stations, you've been on all kinds of

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things. Yeah, it's been a
lot of all major news stations such as

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Fox News, water World than all
these local stations around here. But it's

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been a number of news stations that
I've been owned. I never really wrote

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this book to to get it popular. Nothing. I did it to just

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set the record straight and my story
because it had been changed so much by

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the news. And I had every
news agents in a world bad at me

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because I wouldn't give an interview.
Now all of us wanting to come to

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me, they won't interviews with me, And of course I do it.

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I'm gonna do it for about a
year or so. I remember you saying

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that, and then you're just gonna
fade back into the background again. Right,

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that's exactly right, hopefully this coming
October. Now, I've already got

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a couple of conferences that I signed
up for and on a contract. I'll

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do them after, you know,
next year. But as far as that

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one day over, I'm I'm gone. I'm I'll be fishing again. I've

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a y off bread. I think
Michael's article that was one you didn't have

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to correct it. I don't believe. I remember you just writing me about

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it and I said, this isn't
d Calvin Parker, is it? No

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one could get a hold of you
for years, right, Oh, I

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would have completely avoid everything, But
for some reason I was drawn to the

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article and I felt I needed to
respond some but I really didn't want to

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get into spotlight. But as you
know, that all changed pretty much.

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Yeah. Yeah, if it had
been for you, Martin, they wouldn't

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be a book. Because Philip contacted
you to get a hold of me,

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and that's the way that we touched
base together. Yeah. I remember when

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you and I had a conversation,
you said you were thinking about a book,

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right, at that time I was, but all it was was a

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thought. I gave it up until
I decided to write a book. It

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was still a thought. I actually
told my wife, she's the one that

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started all of it, and by
luck of all things, the next day

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Philip had contacted you for me to
contact him. But it still took him

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a couple of weeks to talk me
into it. And the one reason I

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did, I felt like I owed
an explanation to everybody that that was.

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I never talked to this to my
wife, or my family or anyone else.

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And I didn't want to tell this
that many times. So I thought,

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well, you know, the book
will be a good day, or

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I can tell it one time and
they can buy it if they want to

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hear the store either or I give
them a copy. And you were kind

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enough to send me a copy.
And boy, is that how many pages

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is that book? I'm not for
sure. Around eight hundred. I think

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it's a bunch of them. It's
like a bible. Yeah, it's huge.

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Philip really did his homework on getting
together all the articles and everything in

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it. I think he did a
great job with it. Michael, jump

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in anytime you want, if you
have any questions. Yeah, of course,

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I gotta say. I'm in press
eight hundred pages. That is a

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tone. It is. Actually when
I was writing a book, or he

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was putting together all the homework and
all I had lost all my information and

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Katrina, my house once again flooded. And once you've flood and get all

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this water in, it's gone.
So why he was getting that together.

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I was writing on the book and
the one deal that we Philip and I

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had together. I said, Philip, you know, I'll agree to do

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this book, but I don't I
don't have any education, but I still

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don't want you to edit this book
in any way. I don't want you

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to correct any spelling. I don't
want you to punctuation or changing anything that

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I put in it. And he
agreed, and I figured I'd have to

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argue with him about it. But
he's really held to it and did good

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by it, and I appreciate him
for it. Wow, that is that's

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really great. So it's more in
your own words and it than if anyone

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touched it. That's wonderful. It
is it is my own words. Meshing's

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been changed in it. I know
there's a you know, the one thing

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I have to say is I do
have a lot of new listeners to the

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show you were on about I think
seven or eight months ago on my show.

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And I hate to do this for
the person that knows the case really

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well, but can you kind of
get for the new listener, can you

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kind of give a nutshell story of
what happened? Please we can. I

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was working in the old fall in
the law of Mississippi, and it was

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sixteen hours a day, seven days
a week. So I wanted to change

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jobs, and I called a friend
of my father's, which was Charlie Hickson.

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But I knew him and I was
brought up with him. So anyway,

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he told me to come and go
to work and go to work at

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the shipyard with him. So I
agreed to do that. So I rented

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a room from Charlie and moved in. So we went to work that day.

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I was just down there one day
and we ready the ruin that day

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and from him and worked and I
decided to go fishing after that. Well,

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this was in October eleventh, nineteen
seventy three. So when we got

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off where we left and went fishing, and we went to an old abandoned

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shipyard. It was called Shaw Peter's
Shipyard, and I remember getting there and

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there was no trespassing signed up,
but we still went on end. He

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said it was okay. I didn't
know if it was or not. So

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we were setting there fishing now and
noticed some blue lights behind us, and

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it was the same color as patrol
car. So I actually thought we was

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fixing me get run off or go
to jail for trespassing, which would have

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been fine were me, because I
was tired anyway. So anyhow, I

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was sitting there looking at the boat
across and I've seen an old oh ship,

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oh still whole ship, and I
was thinking, how did these things

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float? You know, they really
heavy in there. I don't know how

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they float. And that's when I
noticed the blue lights coming from behind me.

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So as the blue lights was coming
from behind me, I turned around

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and looked because I thought I was
fixed and go to jail for trespassing.

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So when we stood up, we
noticed a bright lighting behind us, and

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all of a sudden, we just
turned stood up and turned around and the

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light was real blight, and that's
when we noticed three. We couldn't make

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them out because the lights were so
bright. That's when we noticed three of

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robotic looking beans that was coming toward
us, and as they approached us,

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two of them got a hold of
Charlie and one got a hold of myself.

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And that's when I kind of felt
an injection in my arm, probably

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to settle me down. I don't
know what it was are, but you

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know, I was scared when this
was going on. But after the injection,

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I noticed my body was more or
less paralyzed. Now I could turn

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my head one way or another,
and I could roll my eyes and look,

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but I couldn't move my body around
from one end to the other.

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So anyhow, they picked us up, levitated us, floated us to the

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ship, and that's when I noticed
on the ship that the lights were so

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bright in there, and I couldn't
figure out where they was coming from.

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There was no light fixtures. It
looked like I was just coming out of

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the walls. So I did notice
that because I was curious where all these

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bright lights has come from. Well, they took me into a different room

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than what they did the guy that
was with me, and they laid me

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on an examination table and I was
at about a forty five degree angle when

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I was on this table, so
I noticed from the ceiling, though,

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that something dropped out of the sailing
by the size of a deck of cards,

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and it rotated around my head.
It clicked four times, then it

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went back up into the wall.
So when it did that, this big

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ugly creature that I called him the
robotic looking creature or soldier stamped back.

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And there was this smaller looking female
looking creature and I call it a female

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because she was smaller built than the
other ones, and it just felt more

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like she was a female than a
male. She came out of the room,

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she kind of peached me on her
cheek, and that's when I noticed

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her fingers was a little longer on
her hands, or two middle fingers were

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a little longer on her hands than
what this other creature had. And she

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run her finger down my throat and
tried to come up behind that little deal

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that hangs down back there. I
don't know what to call it. And

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that's when I started strangling and having
a problem because she was choked at me

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in was into my mazal cavities,
so I kind of panicked, and that's

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when I noticed she backed up and
just a little bit, and her mouth

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didn't move. She had a mouth, nose and ears just like we did.

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Her mouth never moved. She kind
of telepathically told me, don't worry,

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We're not gonna hurt you. But
you know, by then I was

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already bleeding and strangling. I was
scared. So she made a little mumble

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with her throat, really didn't say
nothing. And this big, ugly creature

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came back in grabbed me by the
arm, and that's when I felt a

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second injection into my arm and I
kind of settled down. He floated this

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back out to the river and set
us down, and I was at the

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river where my arms stretched out,
I could move just facing it, and

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that's when I heard Charlie's son,
Son, you okay, and we turned

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around. The big bright light went
out, the blue hazy lights came back

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on. This thing lifted up and
left, and it was just from that

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time on or the next morning known
it was just a nightmare. With the

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media, I guess every media in
the world, and I'm not saying just

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here in the United States, but
they picked it up all the overseas countries

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and everything else. I didn't realize
how big it was until I started looking

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through the book where Philip had gathered
all this information, but it had stayed

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with me for forty five years.
It completely changed my life. I went

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from getting married, working the same
job, retiring, buying a house,

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and fishing, to losing a job, getting an examination, and leaving all

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in the same day. I had
that job on the coast one day after

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this happened to me. Wow,
they then I got fired now so or

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pretty much because they told us not
to come back until the media has settled

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down. And I often wondered,
and maybe that's why Charlie didn't go back

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it. Maybe heap of seen a
little break to do these conferences and maybe

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make a few dollars, you know, he was a little older, and

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just do that instead of trying to
find another job, because he might have

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thought, you know, maybe nobody
else would hire him. Of course,

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everybody knew what happened to me,
but nobody asked questions. I got home.

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My wife didn't that, or she
wasn't my wife then, but she

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didn't ask what happened. My family
didn't ask, my friends didn't ask,

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and I dang sure didn't tell them. So I just hit it for forty

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five years up until Lord July last
year, I guess when the book came

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out. Wow, really something I
have a question ask, but go ahead

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if you have something you'd like to
throw in. Well, you know,

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you seem pretty comfortable with it now
talking about it things like that. Are

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there any other than how it's affected
your life and you know your relationships and

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you're working and all that. How
is it? Do you wake up at

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night? Do you can you watch
or hear other people's stories of encounters or

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does that bother you? Or is
there a fear at all about what happened?

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Well, it's still a fair in
a way because I would like to

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00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.759
know why it happen, which I'm
almost sure I'll never figure that out.

206
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And that's why I'm asking witnesses to
come forward that might have seen something that

207
00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:51.679
maybe they shed a little light on
it. But I do think it affected

208
00:16:51.720 --> 00:16:56.279
my health. And the reason I
say that is for forty five years,

209
00:16:56.320 --> 00:17:00.039
I couldn't sleep at night until this
book came out out and I wrote it,

210
00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:04.599
so I was up. I've had
a stroke and two major heart attacks

211
00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:11.640
and two open heart surgeries and I'm
still not healthy. And it's like I

212
00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:15.599
tell everybody, you know, it's
a expiration date stamped on my head,

213
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:21.799
so you got to I wanted to
get this out before I expired, and

214
00:17:21.880 --> 00:17:26.279
just left everybody into open not knowing. And so it's been a good thing

215
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:32.480
for me. It's taught me how
to deal with everything. Now, Now,

216
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:37.759
did you ever read the book that
Charlie did? No, sir,

217
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.599
I didn't never read it. Charlie
came to me one day said I'm gonna

218
00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:45.680
write a book. I'll give you
three percent of it, which everybody knows

219
00:17:45.759 --> 00:17:49.480
three percent ain't nothing. Anyhow,
I didn't care about no percentage. I

220
00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:53.799
just signed a contract said write it. I don't care, Charlie. So

221
00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.880
you know that's where it was left. I never opened it, although Philip

222
00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:03.000
sent me a copy of it,
and I have a chance so and I

223
00:18:03.119 --> 00:18:07.920
understand he's got a lot of good
information in the book, a lot of

224
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:11.720
witnesses and things like that, but
I've never read it. Now, did

225
00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.799
you you know? You said you
kept quiet about this for so long?

226
00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:22.359
But did you did people recognize your
name here and there along the way all

227
00:18:22.400 --> 00:18:26.920
these years and strike up a conversation
about it? Absolutely, But I wouldn't

228
00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:32.000
talk about it. And that is
another reason. If the book was written,

229
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:37.000
I was at a friend's wake,
and I signed a register at his

230
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:42.400
wake, and it was in Pasagola, and as people started coming up,

231
00:18:42.440 --> 00:18:45.920
are you the Calvin Parker? I
said, I guess I am. That's

232
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:51.759
my name. So they started asking
me a lot of questions. I didn't

233
00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:56.640
feel like that that was the place
to answer any of the questions, so

234
00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:00.200
we left. And that's when my
wife started talking to me, said,

235
00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:03.279
well, maybe you are to write
a book. So one, I don't

236
00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:07.680
have an education, I can't spell
my own name, so maybe if I

237
00:19:07.759 --> 00:19:11.440
get a ghostwriter, you know,
we might do this. That was just

238
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.039
to satisfy her and pass her off
and maybe should forget all about it.

239
00:19:15.480 --> 00:19:19.880
Well, Darne, the next day
I got a letter from you asking if

240
00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:26.759
it was okay to get Philip my
contact information. Then that's a Philip called

241
00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:37.160
on a completely unrelated event, and
he called an unrelated event and wanted to

242
00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.599
talk to me about Charlie's book,
which I didn't know anything about. So

243
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:44.839
it led into him saying, well, why don't you do your own?

244
00:19:45.000 --> 00:19:47.759
That would be your legacy. You
know. We talked and I told him

245
00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:52.160
everything got changed and it'd be written
black and white. So I told him,

246
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:55.880
maybe let me think about it,
and I was going to blow him

247
00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:00.920
off. So it was about two
weeks later he called back and I told

248
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.000
him, well, let me think
about it. And then he happened to

249
00:20:04.039 --> 00:20:08.839
call back a few days again,
and I actually said, yeah, I'll

250
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:14.240
do it. He said, He
said, well, it might take you

251
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:18.240
two or three years to do this. I said, I don't know how

252
00:20:18.279 --> 00:20:21.000
long it took take. If I
can read a book in a week,

253
00:20:21.039 --> 00:20:25.599
I can write the dinning thing in
a week. And that's what I did.

254
00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:27.319
I went to my room. I
told my wife, and I'm not

255
00:20:27.400 --> 00:20:32.559
taking no phone calls. Bring me
something to eat once a day, and

256
00:20:32.839 --> 00:20:36.559
don't bother me. This went on
for two weeks. I stayed locked up

257
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:40.000
in my room, and as I
was putting it together, then Philip was

258
00:20:40.039 --> 00:20:44.680
putting his part together, and we
just merged them all together. Then isn't

259
00:20:44.680 --> 00:20:47.000
that something? Boy? You should
write more books if you can do it

260
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:52.160
in two weeks. Actually, I
want to talk to you more about how

261
00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:55.920
you get your wife to do that, because I've had a couple of books

262
00:20:55.920 --> 00:21:00.279
and it does not come off like
that for me. Oh it's hard,

263
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:03.079
you know. Every now and then
should come knock on the door. I'd

264
00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:08.680
say get out of here, and
that's what she did. Well, Hey,

265
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:15.680
um, is there is there any
talk of documentary or anything like that

266
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:18.000
about the whole incident? Have you? Have you been involved in anything like

267
00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:23.559
that. I pretty much let Finlip
handle in it, handle it. But

268
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:29.480
it has been talk about documentaries,
it's been talk about movies and things like

269
00:21:29.559 --> 00:21:33.960
that, but we are both trying
to keep it. It's realistic. It's

270
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.440
what you can if some of this
does happen. And in that way,

271
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:42.559
you know, it scares a lot
of these movie companies and all off because

272
00:21:42.599 --> 00:21:48.319
they want to create their own version
of it, and you know, little

273
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.680
changes here and there, Mike would
work out like, oh, let's just

274
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:57.920
say there was two five police come
out. They don't use, but two

275
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:03.000
or three that would make the only
difference or something that I would accept.

276
00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:08.480
I'm not going to accept anything change
in the basic story. So that's that

277
00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:12.200
scares them all off. Yeah,
well, you know, maybe eventually they'll

278
00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:15.519
agree to that. I know,
I had a conversation with Travis Walton and

279
00:22:15.680 --> 00:22:19.039
he said that yes they did,
you know, and firing this guy the

280
00:22:19.079 --> 00:22:23.400
movie they did and you know this
didn't happen. That didn't happen. But

281
00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.799
he said overall he was he was
still happy that it got out, you

282
00:22:27.839 --> 00:22:32.000
know. But you know they will
do that. They for some reason,

283
00:22:32.079 --> 00:22:36.640
even though it's such a spectacular case, they seem to always have to sensationalize

284
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:40.960
it a little more than it is
for some reason, exactly right, And

285
00:22:41.519 --> 00:22:45.559
I don't understand that. How can
you get more out of what's happened and

286
00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:53.000
what's going on right now? The
description of the I saw this model that

287
00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.599
was made in the description of the
being that you saw with the like carrot

288
00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:00.480
things coming out of where the ears
should be in the single one coming out

289
00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:06.359
of the eye, such as No
one has ever talked about anything that looked

290
00:23:06.359 --> 00:23:10.960
like that before or after as far
as I know. And one thing I

291
00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.599
started thinking about, I wrote on
Phillip's Facebook page when he posted that picture,

292
00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:18.920
is I'm wondering if those things were
some type of sensors. You know,

293
00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:25.759
I've often thought about that. Now
daring the stage, you know,

294
00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:32.799
Charlie's seen him up close and that
was his all him done it Now,

295
00:23:32.839 --> 00:23:34.960
I never really got a good look
in the face at him. Yeah,

296
00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:41.519
I did see the female real close. And now I have a artist that

297
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.119
I'm working well and we're trying to
get its close to perfection. It's what

298
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:49.160
we can, of course, after
forty five years without doing a lot of

299
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:53.000
thinking, you know, and figuring. It's hard to do. So it's

300
00:23:53.079 --> 00:23:57.160
just when it gets perfect, we're
going to release that. And no matter

301
00:23:57.200 --> 00:24:03.000
how how striking the memory is,
we're all fallible when it comes to remembering

302
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:07.640
something exactly the way it is over
the years. Exactly right. You can

303
00:24:07.680 --> 00:24:14.039
put ten paper after witness something and
every one of them a witness something different.

304
00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.279
That's right. Now, We've got
about three minutes or so left.

305
00:24:18.799 --> 00:24:22.160
I just wanted to know if you
could to touch on anything that was a

306
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.960
revelation that you saw that Philip found, you know, and put into the

307
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:34.160
book that you had no idea about. Yeah. The one thing was Budd

308
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:40.759
Hopkins had tried to hypnotize me,
and I never really thought he had hypnotize

309
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:45.079
me. This was in ninety three, and I just mentioned to Philip that

310
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:49.599
Budd tried, and he, of
course Budd had passed away and he got

311
00:24:49.599 --> 00:24:56.759
to original tape from doctor Jacobs.
I never knew I was hypnotized up until

312
00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:02.000
I read it Naboo. Now,
when I told my wife, I said,

313
00:25:02.119 --> 00:25:06.000
I didn't think that really happened.
I didn't know, but he had

314
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.160
put a post hypnotied suggestion that I
wouldn't remember it. So that was all

315
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:11.880
amazing to me. That was something
to you that I didn't know. And

316
00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:18.240
I started briefly. I hadn't read
the whole transcripts of it because I want

317
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:22.119
to remember it like I won't remember
it. I don't remember it like what

318
00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:29.039
come off a tape. So I'm
still in that process. Okay, anything

319
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.759
else up, Anything else that was
interesting in the book that you didn't know

320
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:37.799
about. I'm sure it's quite a
few things. I actually need to set

321
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:42.480
down to read the book to see
what is in it. I've never really

322
00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:47.799
read it. Well, I've been
just come out. Yah, I'm telling

323
00:25:47.839 --> 00:25:52.200
you. When this came out,
it was number one best seller at Amazon

324
00:25:52.599 --> 00:25:56.519
the day had come out, and
it stayed like at a long time,

325
00:25:56.920 --> 00:25:59.720
and I'm not for sure where it
is now. I don't never check it.

326
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:04.480
And of course everybody knows, ever
author knows. It's involved in this

327
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:08.680
field. It's no money in these
books. You know. You do that

328
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:15.000
because you want to do it,
And I have no reason to fabricate anything

329
00:26:15.119 --> 00:26:18.759
like this. I just go on
what my word is. Somebody said,

330
00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:21.640
well, I don't believe you.
I said, well, I don't care

331
00:26:21.680 --> 00:26:25.640
you blieve me or not. Don't
mean that much to me if you blame

332
00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.480
me or not. Yeah, I
saw someone attacked to you on Facebook two

333
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:33.000
and there's no need for that.
That's that's ridiculous. Well, a lot

334
00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.279
of it has to do with fears, you know, when people have a

335
00:26:36.319 --> 00:26:41.079
fear of something, the attack they
do. My wife had went up and

336
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:49.039
somebody had made some jewelry for and
she asked if she could sell it or

337
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:52.799
she could sell it for them,
and I gave her permission. I said,

338
00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:55.839
yeah, you know, because it's
got my name. You know,

339
00:26:56.480 --> 00:27:00.480
if you want to do something and
make you a few dollars disconferences something that

340
00:27:00.519 --> 00:27:04.680
would make fine. And somebody popped
up. I forget what words they use.

341
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:10.160
I hate to see you relate to
doing costume jury and all this.

342
00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:15.079
Of course I just told him go
to Hale. Yeah I didn't hear.

343
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.200
Yeah, that's right, Michael.
You have one last you have one last

344
00:27:18.240 --> 00:27:22.440
question or anything? Dad. No, Actually, you know I haven't had

345
00:27:22.480 --> 00:27:26.319
a chance to read the book yet, and I am looking forward to it

346
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:30.440
now. I am. I'm glad
to hear that that ultimately you're doing really

347
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:36.000
well. And it sounds like you've
kind of come to terms and kind of

348
00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:40.480
made peace with this as much as
you can. And it's just great to

349
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:45.640
know that you're doing great because so
many of these stories end up kind of

350
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:49.720
not turn it out so so well
and I'm I'm really happy for you.

351
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:55.759
Well, thank you. When you're
reading the book, give me call me

352
00:27:55.839 --> 00:28:00.000
or something, let me know how
watching saying I will, And don't worry

353
00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:03.000
about not making money off any books. I can assure you there's no money

354
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:07.960
in fiction either. Right, yeah, all right, Well we are at

355
00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.599
the break now. Thanks so much, gentlemen. It's been it's been such

356
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.720
a pleasure. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you. Will you post being

357
00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:18.680
linked to this summer? Oh sure, we'll do all right, Okay,

358
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:23.319
everyone, So that's it. We
are going to be back right after this

359
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:29.440
break with Charlotte Man. So hang
in there, we'll be right back.

360
00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:33.720
Thanks. William Huffman. Back in
nineteen forty one, I believe it was

361
00:28:33.759 --> 00:28:38.200
April, you know, we think
of the modern day uthology as nineteen forty

362
00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:42.640
seven. Well, this pre uh, this you know, happened. Well,

363
00:28:42.680 --> 00:28:48.000
before that, six years before that. And it's a real, real

364
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:52.599
interesting case. Her grandfather only wanted
to talk about it once in his life,

365
00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:57.640
and I have a lot of questions
to ask her. So welcome to

366
00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:02.880
the show, Charlotte. Thank you
very much. I appreciate you heaving me

367
00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:07.519
sure. And it's been a long
time now this up. This is something

368
00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:11.200
I wanted to bring up. How
we met is really a crazy situation.

369
00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:18.279
I had a guest blog on my
website podcast ufo dot com, and you

370
00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:22.759
found it, and then you also
saw the show number and you just happened

371
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:26.519
to dial it to talk to me
while I had a show going on.

372
00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:33.000
I had no idea when you first
called, like Charlotte man, that name

373
00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.960
sounds familiar, but you said you
had some errors on your website and so

374
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:41.880
anyway, I did not write that
blog, so I took it down,

375
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:47.599
and you're here to set the record
straight, and I really do appreciate you

376
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:52.400
coming on. Well. I'm glad
that you gave me the platform to do

377
00:29:52.519 --> 00:29:57.480
so. I'm not the type that
likes to undermine other people. But when

378
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:04.119
some one talks about your family in
a very personal way and yourself as well

379
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:08.519
as if they know you intimately,
and they know what you were thinking when

380
00:30:08.599 --> 00:30:12.920
you did things that kind of crosses
the line with me, and I had

381
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:18.279
just had enough of it. Sure, yeah, so I'm sure you see

382
00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:22.960
that all over the place everywhere.
I'm all over the internet and with most

383
00:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.440
of them when people call me and
say, Charlotte, I read this or

384
00:30:26.799 --> 00:30:32.559
what about this, and I look, and it's people I've never met.

385
00:30:32.599 --> 00:30:37.039
I wouldn't know them if I passed
them on the street. And that was

386
00:30:37.119 --> 00:30:45.839
a surprise to me and very disconcerting
to me, simply because my grandfather's experience

387
00:30:47.079 --> 00:30:51.839
was just that, and why what
I tried to do is be an authentic

388
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:59.920
witness to his experience. But I'm
not used to the politics and the thing

389
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:04.799
go on. I'm not used to
people totally lying about you. So that's

390
00:31:06.039 --> 00:31:10.039
that's a strong word. Yeah,
it's not good, and I'm not used

391
00:31:10.079 --> 00:31:12.319
to it, and I haven't had
it around me, so it was kind

392
00:31:12.319 --> 00:31:18.359
of hard to deal with in the
beginning. Sure, Now, if that

393
00:31:18.799 --> 00:31:22.759
the blog that the guest blog,
you know, I can't even remember who

394
00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:26.240
wrote that and sent it in to
me. But if there was inaccuracies,

395
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:30.359
I've already said this to you on
the phone but I really do apologize that

396
00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:34.839
that was out there and it's gone
now. So I would like for you

397
00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:40.119
if you would, um there's a
lot of people that just are not familiar

398
00:31:40.119 --> 00:31:44.960
with the story at all. If
you can just go into detail on what

399
00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:49.559
you know about what happened, that
would be wonderful. Well what literally happened,

400
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:56.880
and it's been bits and pieces of
it told. I've only given permission

401
00:31:56.960 --> 00:32:00.960
to one person to tell the story
in the very beginning, and that was

402
00:32:00.079 --> 00:32:08.559
on the privacy that he wouldn't reveal
meal or the source. But Lynn Stringfield

403
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:15.640
Research. I thoroughly enjoyed him.
I never got to meet him in person,

404
00:32:15.319 --> 00:32:21.799
but I had. It was early
in the spring of nineteen forty one.

405
00:32:21.880 --> 00:32:25.200
It was April, and I know
and have been exact with that,

406
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.400
although I had a lot of people
tried to change that, try to tell

407
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:35.559
me it wasn't that time or wasn't
it an easter, And it isn't because

408
00:32:35.680 --> 00:32:39.720
my mother at the time was expecting
my older sister and she was born May

409
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:45.240
the third, so I'm very strong
on the time. But the family was

410
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:51.960
together visiting my grandmother and my grandfather
who lived in Cape Gerardo, Massuri at

411
00:32:51.960 --> 00:32:58.920
the time, and about nine or
nine thirty, my granddad got a phone

412
00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:06.480
call. He's a Southern Baptist minister
or was, and someone had called in

413
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:10.400
and said that there had been what
they thought was a plane, a small

414
00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:16.519
plane crash outside of town, and
would he if they sent a car for

415
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:22.240
him, would he come and right
along in case there were people that were

416
00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:30.599
injured that might need prayer or emotional
support from a religious religious figure. And

417
00:33:30.799 --> 00:33:37.880
he agreed, and so a little
while later a car came and picked him

418
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:42.359
up, and he was gone for
a while, and the family speculated and

419
00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:47.960
actually prayed, hoping no one was
deceased. But when grandfather got there,

420
00:33:49.839 --> 00:33:53.200
it wasn't at all what he expected
or the people that had picked him up

421
00:33:53.440 --> 00:34:00.960
expected. It turned out to have
been a crashed uf and there were three

422
00:34:01.160 --> 00:34:07.440
aliens that had been inside, I'm
assuming, and either thrown from the vehicle

423
00:34:07.599 --> 00:34:15.760
or taken out of the vehicle.
And we're laying on the ground and grandfather

424
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:21.239
was able to walk up to part
of the UFO was kind of crashed open

425
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:30.559
lane open, and he could see
inside and he saw many gauges and instruments

426
00:34:30.559 --> 00:34:37.719
and things that didn't look familiar to
him. One of the things that he

427
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:42.480
mentioned to my dad and I've ned
i've ever spoken of this is what appeared

428
00:34:42.480 --> 00:34:46.960
to be in on a pedestal in
the middle of the UFO. Like he

429
00:34:47.119 --> 00:34:52.599
described it as being like a gyroscope. It was floating and you know,

430
00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:59.119
it could move, but not fixed. And what impressed him the most or

431
00:34:59.199 --> 00:35:07.719
fascinated was on the inside, all
the way around the UFO were symbols and

432
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.639
markings that looked to him. They
weren't familiar, but they looked like what

433
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:20.159
he had seen of hyperoglyphics. And
on the outside, when he went to

434
00:35:20.519 --> 00:35:25.440
where the aliens he called them,
the little people were laying. Two of

435
00:35:25.440 --> 00:35:30.880
them more deceased already, but then
was the third one who was still reading

436
00:35:31.599 --> 00:35:37.800
very shallowly. He could see the
chest move, so he knelt down beside

437
00:35:37.800 --> 00:35:45.840
of him and took him at his
wrist and prayed for him. And if

438
00:35:45.880 --> 00:35:52.280
you've ever seen the typical alien pictures, the eyes they don't have lids,

439
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:57.280
so they don't close, so it's
as if they're staring directly at you the

440
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:06.159
entire time, and the experience of
that is something you don't forget. And

441
00:36:06.239 --> 00:36:12.800
he said, not long after he
prayed over him, he did expire as

442
00:36:12.840 --> 00:36:17.360
well, and of course he was
totally involved in what he was seeing and

443
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:22.440
doing at the moment, but when
he looked up began to see that there

444
00:36:22.519 --> 00:36:27.400
was military everywhere, just had begun
to drive up and get out of the

445
00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:31.599
vehicles and come towards them. And
it's been reported by other people whom I

446
00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:37.400
don't I've never met, that reported
that there were FBI and different people there,

447
00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:44.480
and just a score of people,
and there wasn't There was the people

448
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:49.320
who lived on the property, of
course, seeing the crash had come down,

449
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.440
and there wasn't a lot of fire. There wasn't the aliens were not

450
00:36:53.559 --> 00:37:01.159
burned. It was a minor fire
in the field. And there was a

451
00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:06.199
few neighbors that perhaps had been there, and a couple of other people that

452
00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:14.280
Granddad assumed one we thought a reporter, or he thought a reporter. And

453
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:21.079
when the military did show up,
the whole tone changed immediately. They began

454
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:27.199
to take small groups of the people
to the side and have individual conversations with

455
00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:32.960
them and telling them basically, this
didn't happen. You didn't see this,

456
00:37:34.480 --> 00:37:37.440
and you're not able to speak of
it again. This is a matter of

457
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:46.440
national security. Well, Granddad he
listened, and he would have complied anyway

458
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:51.719
even if they hadn't said national security. But they didn't intimidate him. It

459
00:37:51.760 --> 00:37:55.119
didn't scare him. Granddad was that
kind of a man. He was an

460
00:37:55.159 --> 00:38:00.800
honorable man. He was very straightforward, and if they said, you know,

461
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:02.320
don't talk about it, then he
wasn't going to talk about it.

462
00:38:02.960 --> 00:38:08.679
However, after they dropped him off
back at home, the family was waiting

463
00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:14.119
up, as you naturally would,
wanting to know what had happened, and

464
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:20.360
Granddad related everything to them, but
he said he wouldn't speak of it again

465
00:38:20.679 --> 00:38:24.280
because they had asked him not to
do that. And about two weeks a

466
00:38:24.440 --> 00:38:30.159
week and half maybe two weeks after
the fact, there was a knock at

467
00:38:30.199 --> 00:38:36.400
the door on an evening again at
night, around Adrian nine o'clock, and

468
00:38:36.599 --> 00:38:39.719
there was a gentleman that asked if
he could have a word with him privately

469
00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:47.679
in his study, and so he
did, and after he left granddad grandma

470
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:52.440
said, well, what was that
about, Will, And he said,

471
00:38:52.519 --> 00:39:00.239
well, he had taken this photograph
and he had taken it with his private

472
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:07.840
camera and it was not confiscated when
the military got there because it was a

473
00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:12.519
small personal camera and he put it
under his coat. They didn't see it,

474
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:17.760
and he had developed a picture and
it was one of the aliens and

475
00:39:19.039 --> 00:39:22.679
two of the men. And it's
been reported that it was two policemen that

476
00:39:22.800 --> 00:39:27.960
held him up in the picture.
That's not true. It was just two

477
00:39:28.039 --> 00:39:34.400
individuals that happened to be there.
And they put one arm each man on

478
00:39:34.559 --> 00:39:38.119
either side, I mean, put
one arm under his armpit and the other

479
00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:46.280
near his elbow and held him out
because he very very long arms. And

480
00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:52.280
they took a picture of him.
And so he told Grandad this man was

481
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:58.440
even nervous when he showed up.
My grandmother said, you could tell he

482
00:39:58.559 --> 00:40:05.079
was scared something. And she said
it bothered bothered Granddad, that he was

483
00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:10.440
so so unnerved by it. But
he wanted a granddad and ask him would

484
00:40:10.480 --> 00:40:15.960
he takes a picture and keep it
because he felt like humanity needed to be

485
00:40:16.079 --> 00:40:21.480
aware of it. He wasn't one
that was had the courage to come forward

486
00:40:21.559 --> 00:40:25.000
with it, but would Granddad keep
it? And so he did, and

487
00:40:25.199 --> 00:40:30.360
that's the picture he gave to my
Actually, my dad kept it for him.

488
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:37.079
And so I had seen that picture
from the time I was little up

489
00:40:37.159 --> 00:40:42.000
until Oh, I don't know,
I was about eight or nine and a

490
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.639
friend of dad's had Willie. They
were having a dinner party. A friend

491
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:52.320
was a photographer and he had asked
that if he could borrow it, he

492
00:40:52.480 --> 00:40:58.800
wanted to help him authenticated and too
short to his parents. And the man's

493
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.800
name was Walter Fisk. He was
a personal friend of my mamas and dad's,

494
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:08.880
and Dad let him take it and
we didn't never get it back.

495
00:41:12.440 --> 00:41:19.880
For the we did a made for
TV documentary and we reenacted a picture,

496
00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:24.159
made it a rep of what it
would be like. And so from that

497
00:41:24.400 --> 00:41:31.280
that was Granddad's part of his experience, his story. But what most people

498
00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:37.840
don't know because I've never spoken of
it, but I've never been asked either

499
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:47.079
that years later, people that Nami
gave me a copy of the book The

500
00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:57.199
Watchers by Raymond Fowler, and in
it he surmises that if someone has had

501
00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.800
that close of an encounter with alien
being, that they tend to follow the

502
00:42:01.960 --> 00:42:10.760
families after that. And they absolutely
have, and that part of my life

503
00:42:12.199 --> 00:42:17.920
is still going on. Um it
affected our entire family, uh in many

504
00:42:17.960 --> 00:42:23.519
many different ways. When I was
born, my sister's old or she's two

505
00:42:23.599 --> 00:42:29.559
years old, his name, she
was born in May and I was born

506
00:42:29.639 --> 00:42:36.280
in nineteen forty three. And when
I was born, I came in not

507
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:44.000
knowing even what they meant, with
all kinds of gifts that my mother told

508
00:42:44.039 --> 00:42:49.039
me they were gifts of God.
And I was told them sacred, not

509
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:51.800
to ever make fun of them,
are to use them, and always to

510
00:42:51.920 --> 00:42:57.679
explain they came from God. And
that has been my life ever since.

511
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:02.119
It's taken many of the many different
places, and other members of my family

512
00:43:02.199 --> 00:43:07.079
were gifted in many ways, but
we have been of took teas we've been.

513
00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:09.719
I mean, they just air in
and out of our life and always

514
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:15.960
have been. So it's quite interesting
to me in my life. In the

515
00:43:16.119 --> 00:43:21.800
very beginning, I didn't think of
myself as being anybody special. I don't

516
00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:27.239
to this day. I'm just like
everybody else. You know, you have

517
00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.920
opportunities and things, gifts that you
have and you either use them or you

518
00:43:31.000 --> 00:43:42.079
don't. But I don't have any
additional things that aren't available to everybody but

519
00:43:42.239 --> 00:43:44.840
I. But I, but I
have never turned loose of them, and

520
00:43:45.000 --> 00:43:49.360
I speak of them, and it's
been my life's work ever since. And

521
00:43:49.440 --> 00:44:04.679
it's it's fascinating, scary, but
fascinating so that's basically Granddad's story, and

522
00:44:05.639 --> 00:44:15.159
that I was approached after I wrote
to Raymond Thaler, after I read the

523
00:44:15.280 --> 00:44:22.880
book in regard to the part about
them following families, and he, in

524
00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.239
turned, unbeknownst to me, sent
a copy of my letter to Lynn Stringfield,

525
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:34.079
and Lynn then in turn called me. And at that time I had

526
00:44:34.199 --> 00:44:40.320
Granddad's experience, but I didn't have
any of the UFO background, none at

527
00:44:40.360 --> 00:44:45.840
all. I didn't know. I
just didn't know anything about it. And

528
00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:51.840
so I had not heard of Lufon
or Lynn Stringfield, or didn't know who

529
00:44:51.920 --> 00:44:58.880
stand Freedman was. I soon got
a crash course. But so after we

530
00:44:59.079 --> 00:45:01.840
talked several times I was on the
phone, I found him to be a

531
00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:07.280
very kind person, and he told
me of some of the work he had

532
00:45:07.320 --> 00:45:10.360
done and sent me some of his
papers and books and things like that.

533
00:45:10.599 --> 00:45:17.360
And one thing has just led to
another. It's always you a door opens

534
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:22.880
and you take a step towards it, and then here's a whole whole outlay.

535
00:45:23.519 --> 00:45:29.760
So I've lived to what I call
a dual life, in that I

536
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:36.280
had my grandfather in the structured religion
on one side, and then on the

537
00:45:36.400 --> 00:45:44.159
other side the other the other part
of the life that was so relevant to

538
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:49.559
me day in and day out,
But it was My life has been very

539
00:45:49.639 --> 00:45:53.559
eclectic. The things that have happened
to me and others in my family very

540
00:45:53.599 --> 00:45:59.559
eclectic. And Granddad was not the
type of man, even before his experience

541
00:45:59.719 --> 00:46:05.159
where he made judgments. He was
very open minded for a Southern Baptist minister

542
00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:12.800
in that it changed his perspective in
many ways. Grandmother and I talked about

543
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.480
it. She came to my home
and stayed with me when she was in

544
00:46:16.559 --> 00:46:22.760
the last stages of cancer. She
took her chemotherapy at my home in Texas.

545
00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:30.800
And it's one thing. My dad
was a very flamboyant person, very

546
00:46:30.920 --> 00:46:37.280
interesting, and he had a large
subject matter that he was interested in,

547
00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:44.639
but he tended to lay things on
a little thick So to hear some things

548
00:46:44.760 --> 00:46:50.519
from my dad and then to hear
him from my grandmother were like difference of

549
00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:53.599
night and day. So when she
was ill, I tried to talk with

550
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:59.679
her about the many stories and bits
and pieces that I had heard through the

551
00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:05.480
fa And at first she wouldn't talk
to me about it because Grandpa told her

552
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:10.039
not to, But later she began
to fill in the blanks for me.

553
00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:17.519
And then after she left this world, then, whether you want to call

554
00:47:17.639 --> 00:47:22.280
it God or the highest consciousness,
whatever name you want to put to it,

555
00:47:22.719 --> 00:47:27.840
began to reveal to me time and
time and time and time again,

556
00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:35.159
the idiosyncrasies as them being brought together. They aren't separate. They're all one,

557
00:47:35.360 --> 00:47:38.000
and we can't have one without the
other, and we have to embrace

558
00:47:38.079 --> 00:47:43.360
it and be open minded. But
I also use our brains. Okay,

559
00:47:44.599 --> 00:47:51.480
all right, So I apologize for
that. I the listener out there may

560
00:47:51.519 --> 00:47:53.480
not know. I may not care
when that's okay if you don't. But

561
00:47:54.039 --> 00:48:00.199
I have been away from home for
now it will be a month tomorrow and

562
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:02.960
in hotel rooms, and I have
my own mine, I have my portable

563
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:07.039
equipment with me. And while I
was listening to you, somehow I must

564
00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:14.280
have unplugged my microphone. So I
apologize you were asking me, so,

565
00:48:15.039 --> 00:48:19.719
yes, I do have some questions, and I apologize for the listening audience

566
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:22.840
as well. But one of the
things I wanted to know is how did

567
00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:27.320
this story get out in the first
place, and about when did it come

568
00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:32.679
out? Well, actually I think
it probably got out the first time,

569
00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:39.679
would have been back in nineteen around
nineteen ninety nine to two thousand, when

570
00:48:39.719 --> 00:48:45.960
I first got in touch with Lynn, or when he got in touch with

571
00:48:46.119 --> 00:48:50.679
me, because prior to that I
had only reached out to Raymond threw a

572
00:48:50.800 --> 00:48:55.000
letter. I hadn't talked to anybody
else, and no one had ever approached

573
00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:00.599
me, and so that I think
that would probably have to have been the

574
00:49:00.679 --> 00:49:07.159
beginning. And Leonard had asked to
if he could include my story in a

575
00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:13.880
presentation he was making to the move
On conferences that they do each year,

576
00:49:15.079 --> 00:49:22.119
and he did it in a book
that was entitled the Status Report Number six,

577
00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:25.880
and he wrote in there, and
the interesting part of that is,

578
00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:30.079
uh, there's so much more to
the story that you know, just the

579
00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:37.880
very basics ever got out, and
he presented it in that at that time.

580
00:49:38.840 --> 00:49:45.519
But most I don't think there's anybody
that knows. Maybe Stanton Freedman those

581
00:49:45.920 --> 00:49:52.440
I've discussed it with him. But
he also included another story of mine in

582
00:49:52.559 --> 00:50:00.559
the same the same presentation in the
epilogue. At one time, I'm about

583
00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:07.199
summer of nineteen seventy nine, I
was at I worked for the phone company

584
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:14.159
then and I was working at an
away from the company, giving a talk

585
00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:22.440
I think, and retired four star
major general by the name of Melvin McNichol.

586
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:30.280
He had the base when he retired
from the Air Force. He it

587
00:50:30.559 --> 00:50:36.159
was in Oklahoma City at tinker Field. He also had had the base at

588
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:44.000
v Spad in Germany, and after
he retired, he was part of the

589
00:50:45.400 --> 00:50:52.239
Space Museum there in Oklahoma City.
And he called the phone company and described

590
00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:54.639
me and wanted my phone number,
and they gave it to him, and

591
00:50:54.840 --> 00:51:00.039
it began a friendship of about eight
or nine years that we had. It

592
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:08.360
was very very informative and really really
very helpful in the UFO information, and

593
00:51:08.599 --> 00:51:14.760
so he and I discussed. It
took him a whole year and a half

594
00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:17.960
after we knew each other for him
to ever confide in me anything. But

595
00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:22.360
one day we got on the subject
of UFOs, and he was familiar with

596
00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:27.800
Granddad's because I had told him Granddad's
experience. And I said to him,

597
00:51:27.880 --> 00:51:36.239
I said, mel you know,
is it true. Do you know that

598
00:51:36.400 --> 00:51:38.599
there is such a thing as UFOs? Have you ever seen one? You?

599
00:51:39.320 --> 00:51:44.960
Do you know that the Air Force
does cover them up? And he

600
00:51:45.119 --> 00:51:49.320
looked at me and he smiled and
he said, Charlotte, it's absolutely true.

601
00:51:50.000 --> 00:51:55.320
And he didn't divulge enough information to
get into trouble, but enough to

602
00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.880
tell me he had walked around one
basically where he was when that happened,

603
00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:07.320
um, and that they did exist
and that. And I asked him why

604
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:12.199
would they keep it so secret?
And he said, the general public cannot

605
00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:15.159
handle this, And I said,
well, I'm the general public. Of

606
00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:19.320
course they could. He you,
thank you are, but you're not.

607
00:52:20.159 --> 00:52:23.760
Oh wow, wow, that's interesting
because, um, I don't think that's

608
00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:28.639
the way it is today. I
feel though there's more of an openness to

609
00:52:28.719 --> 00:52:31.920
it than there's ever been. But
you know, oh absolutely yeah. So

610
00:52:32.800 --> 00:52:37.159
do you know who leaked the story
to begin with? How? How you

611
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:43.159
you know how? That's what's really
puzzling to me. Well, when I

612
00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:49.559
talked originally with Leonard, he promised
me that it would never leave his file,

613
00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:54.639
UM, that it would be kept
secret, and he was good in

614
00:52:54.800 --> 00:53:00.320
doing that. He never mentioned my
name when he presented in an example think

615
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:06.519
and in the one I just described
to you, called me Shari Monet.

616
00:53:07.519 --> 00:53:10.280
Okay, but I'm still not getting
into I'm still not getting the What I'm

617
00:53:10.320 --> 00:53:16.840
trying to understand here is someone had
to leak the story in the very beginning

618
00:53:16.880 --> 00:53:22.079
to get it out there for to
have him contact you. I mean,

619
00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:25.760
who was it someone at the scene
beside your grandfather. Your grandfather certainly didn't

620
00:53:25.960 --> 00:53:30.320
Well what I've been told, I
really haven't ever found out that, to

621
00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:37.519
be exact. I talked with Lynn's
wife after he passed away, because he

622
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:44.480
had promised they would be secret,
and she said people had tried to buy

623
00:53:44.559 --> 00:53:49.039
them, but she didn't let anybody
have them. But I later heard that

624
00:53:50.000 --> 00:53:53.880
Lynn had a stenographer or a secretary
that worked with him and helped him keep

625
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:59.519
his files up and keep him,
you know, all of that taken care

626
00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:05.800
of, and that she had secretly
copied his information. I can't speak to

627
00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:10.719
that as a truth because that's just
what I was told. I don't know

628
00:54:10.960 --> 00:54:16.480
exactly where or when you were sleeked. Oh okay, um, someone just

629
00:54:16.639 --> 00:54:22.400
made a you know. Of course, this happened before there was any um,

630
00:54:22.039 --> 00:54:28.119
you know, investigations back in nineteen
and the nineteen forties, before um,

631
00:54:28.559 --> 00:54:30.000
you know, the late nineteen forties, so there was, as far

632
00:54:30.079 --> 00:54:35.159
as we know, no one was
actually investigating anything, um you know.

633
00:54:35.320 --> 00:54:39.199
So that's uh, that is interesting. Now. I do want to tell

634
00:54:39.280 --> 00:54:45.360
the listener out there. This is
something that people just may think as strange,

635
00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:49.840
but it was true at the time. Was when there was you know,

636
00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:52.920
uh, car crashes things like that, when there are people dying or

637
00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:59.639
actually dead, it was certainly very
very common for the police to ask a

638
00:55:00.079 --> 00:55:02.199
and to bless, bless the people, bless the bodies. That was just

639
00:55:02.360 --> 00:55:07.000
common, that was always done.
So it's nothing that part's not unusual at

640
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:10.960
all. Of course, what the
part that's unusual is when they came up

641
00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:15.039
to the crash and it wasn't a
car crash, right, So yeah,

642
00:55:15.280 --> 00:55:21.480
so that's that's all interesting. Another
thing about the picture, the picture that's

643
00:55:21.519 --> 00:55:27.440
online, anyone can actually um google
that if you just go in and google

644
00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:31.119
and do the cape Girardo Ufo crash, um, you will see a picture

645
00:55:31.239 --> 00:55:37.119
of it looks like maybe a brim
to brimmed hat people holding up an alien

646
00:55:37.239 --> 00:55:40.280
and you know that picture. Now, um, you saw the original picture,

647
00:55:42.079 --> 00:55:45.679
did you did you have any say
and to what the you know,

648
00:55:45.800 --> 00:55:52.440
the picture that was designed for that
show. Um, you know what they

649
00:55:52.480 --> 00:55:57.079
came up with was that your part
of your input was involved in that basically

650
00:55:57.159 --> 00:56:00.800
mine in Jim Marsh Jim Mars Okay, Yeah, Jim. Jim and I

651
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:07.280
had talked about it because I've been
his personal I guess you would call it

652
00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:14.440
reader or advisor for twenty three years
and uh oh wow, had worked with

653
00:56:14.599 --> 00:56:20.679
him. He took me to the
eighteen ninety seven Aurora or as She's seen,

654
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:25.039
uh to check out a little earlier
in there. But we had talked

655
00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:30.840
about it, and I basically described
what I had seen in the original picture.

656
00:56:30.119 --> 00:56:36.480
We just re enacted it with the
people at the UM. We did

657
00:56:36.559 --> 00:56:40.960
it in Rosswell, I see,
Okay. Someone asked a question on the

658
00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:45.079
chat room I thought was kind of
interesting. Why would people bid on a

659
00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:49.920
story that had not been made public? Why would they bid on it?

660
00:56:50.119 --> 00:56:54.719
Yeah, I'm not sure I understand
it. Um. You mentioned just a

661
00:56:54.800 --> 00:57:00.280
little while ago that they were trying
to you know, by by the story

662
00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:04.880
or by buy something. M So
what were they trying to buy? Exactly

663
00:57:06.239 --> 00:57:10.000
what? People A few people that
contacted me they wanted me to sign a

664
00:57:10.119 --> 00:57:15.800
release. Um. It wasn't a
matter of any money exchanging hands. They

665
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:20.840
wanted they wanted the information. They
didn't want me or they didn't want me

666
00:57:21.000 --> 00:57:25.400
presenting it. Uh. And I
wouldn't give control over to anybody else that's

667
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:29.760
that's my family's story. And I
wasn't trying to make money. I was

668
00:57:29.840 --> 00:57:35.960
simply trying to get the information out
to see if other folks could come forward,

669
00:57:36.119 --> 00:57:38.920
or you know, just to fill
it out. And so that's why

670
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:45.599
you've not heard a lot about it
is because that's not my It's not what

671
00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:52.440
I'm about. Now, I know
that trying to think it's Uh Paul Blake

672
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:55.280
Is that? Is that who someone
was out there telling this story? Was

673
00:57:55.360 --> 00:58:00.960
he and wrote a book on it? How? M O forty one?

674
00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:07.559
Is that what you're speaking of Smith? Paul Paul Paul Blake Smith or something?

675
00:58:07.679 --> 00:58:10.400
Yeah, Paul Blake Smith? Yeah? And was his story? Did

676
00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:15.159
he do a fairly accurate job?
I mean, how can I be nice

677
00:58:15.199 --> 00:58:22.519
about it? Um? I was
afraid back people. Well, UM,

678
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:27.719
when I heard about it from your
podcast, UM, I went and got

679
00:58:27.800 --> 00:58:31.760
a copy and I have never been
so upset in all my life. I

680
00:58:31.880 --> 00:58:37.360
began to read it. Now I
can only speak to the part that he

681
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:40.239
speaks of my family, which is
most of the book, and I'm almost

682
00:58:40.400 --> 00:58:45.199
on every page. The only thing
that I can tell you that is true

683
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:51.039
that would make this a non fiction
book is the fact that he was born

684
00:58:51.119 --> 00:58:55.199
in Cape Gerardo. My sar oh
ouch. Yeah. He wrote me two

685
00:58:55.360 --> 00:59:00.960
letters in twenty fourteen, and he
acts he doesn't even know me, um,

686
00:59:01.440 --> 00:59:08.840
with a long list of questions.
I didn't even respond to the letter

687
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:15.159
because what research he had done was
so out there and left field. I

688
00:59:15.199 --> 00:59:22.159
don't know where he got it,
and uh, I don't. I don't

689
00:59:22.320 --> 00:59:27.800
want to sue him, but I
want to stop him. This should never

690
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:31.119
be out there the way he paints
my granddad, the things that he says,

691
00:59:31.559 --> 00:59:37.800
there's no truth to him. Let's
talk about the inaccuracies. Then some

692
00:59:37.960 --> 00:59:39.360
of them that bother the most,
just you know, to get it out

693
00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:45.880
there and and and get it,
you know, corrected. Well, I

694
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:49.920
don't even know where to start to
be, to be honest with you.

695
00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:52.480
Yeah, just touch on some of
them, what you know, you know,

696
00:59:52.920 --> 00:59:58.280
what has bother to do the well
he makes the statement the gentleman who

697
00:59:58.760 --> 01:00:06.880
who my grand my dad gave the
picture two to authenticate. He says that

698
01:00:07.320 --> 01:00:10.960
the man would never never ever acknowledge
me or talk to me. Well,

699
01:00:12.039 --> 01:00:16.079
that's not true. I talked to
him on the telephone and at first he

700
01:00:16.400 --> 01:00:22.360
was very vague, but he had
been a friend of my family for quite

701
01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:25.119
a while, and my mother was
quite beautiful, and he had a crush

702
01:00:25.159 --> 01:00:30.679
shutter And so I said to him, I said, Dwayne, you might

703
01:00:30.760 --> 01:00:37.159
not remember me because I was just
a kid, but I remembered you brought

704
01:00:37.320 --> 01:00:42.039
pheasant for dinner because you had shot
it and was explaining all and I said,

705
01:00:42.199 --> 01:00:45.800
do you remember the red headed woman? And all of a sudden outburst

706
01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:51.599
Pauline, I said, that's my
mother. Oh. He said, yes,

707
01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:59.639
Now I get it. And so
we do know where the photograph the

708
01:00:59.719 --> 01:01:05.440
gut him, and as it he
was entangled, and he was very difficult

709
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:10.199
to follow because he would say such
outlinedish things that couldn't be proven. I

710
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:17.679
mean, Ryan would and Bob Wood. They're the ones that we did the

711
01:01:17.800 --> 01:01:23.800
documentary together. And Ryan is the
only one I've ever again given permission to

712
01:01:24.000 --> 01:01:30.320
use my information in a book,
which was he presented very well in Majestic

713
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:36.599
Eyes only. I don't think it's
in print anymore. But you know that

714
01:01:36.880 --> 01:01:42.599
that's just one thing. Stanton went
and saw him and talked to him,

715
01:01:42.639 --> 01:01:45.280
and he talked to me on the
phone, and you know, and it's

716
01:01:45.360 --> 01:01:52.199
just not true what he says.
And then he said that the photo was

717
01:01:52.320 --> 01:01:55.679
given back to us. No,
it wasn't. It was never given back

718
01:01:55.719 --> 01:02:02.480
to us. And oh gosh,
well I don't. I don't want to

719
01:02:02.679 --> 01:02:06.679
get you upset here, but it's
just I thought it would be a good

720
01:02:06.760 --> 01:02:10.880
chance for you to set um something
straight that you know that bothered you because

721
01:02:10.920 --> 01:02:15.159
he he did write a book.
You know, you don't make a lot

722
01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:17.119
of money on books anyway, but
still, um, you know, he

723
01:02:17.320 --> 01:02:22.079
was getting on Coast to Coast and
a few other you know, interviews because

724
01:02:22.119 --> 01:02:27.519
of uh, like he was the
go to um on that that subject and

725
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:30.719
um so, but I think it's
best to hear from you. So I

726
01:02:30.840 --> 01:02:34.000
was really glad that you were willing
to come on the show. Um,

727
01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:38.119
you know, you're you're closer to
secondhand knowledge to this than anyone else.

728
01:02:40.119 --> 01:02:44.719
Well, the thing of it is, I've never not been here, and

729
01:02:44.920 --> 01:02:50.559
people have approached me, and if
they've asked me for something in the right

730
01:02:50.719 --> 01:02:55.480
vein, I've I've helped them or
tried to give them what they needed.

731
01:02:57.519 --> 01:03:04.440
But not not many people came to
him. And you know, there is

732
01:03:04.519 --> 01:03:09.480
always a time and a place.
I believe that, and now's the time

733
01:03:09.559 --> 01:03:15.559
for the truth to be out.
And so it's happening now. I do

734
01:03:15.719 --> 01:03:20.400
want to talk about the abduction situation, stuff like that. I want to

735
01:03:20.440 --> 01:03:22.599
make sure that we do not forget
to talk about that. But I want

736
01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:24.960
to go back to that's okay,
I want to go back to the photo

737
01:03:25.000 --> 01:03:30.719
because this is really fascinating me.
Fascinating to me. You actually saw this,

738
01:03:30.840 --> 01:03:34.559
now, your grandfather wouldn't have showed
this to you. I mean,

739
01:03:34.599 --> 01:03:37.639
he didn't want to talk about it. How did that float around in the

740
01:03:37.719 --> 01:03:40.960
family. How did that Well,
it actually didn't ever float around. He

741
01:03:42.079 --> 01:03:46.280
just went from my grandfather not long
after he got it to my dad,

742
01:03:49.239 --> 01:03:54.400
and Dad kept it at the house
and when there would be times if they

743
01:03:54.440 --> 01:04:01.000
would, my parents would would have
guests over dinner parties and subject would come

744
01:04:01.079 --> 01:04:06.559
up one way or another something similar, and Dad would relate the story and

745
01:04:06.800 --> 01:04:14.360
he would show the picture back then. I guess the magnitude of what it

746
01:04:14.599 --> 01:04:20.320
was really didn't hit us because,
well especially myself and my brothers and sisters,

747
01:04:20.400 --> 01:04:26.079
because it was just always around and
we didn't think it was anything so

748
01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:30.440
much out of the ordinary. We
thought all all people knew all this stuff.

749
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:35.079
You know, when you grow up
with something and it's around you all

750
01:04:35.119 --> 01:04:41.039
the time. You don't question it. That's right, that's right. You

751
01:04:41.159 --> 01:04:44.559
know, it was just in the
family pictures. I mean I could have

752
01:04:44.599 --> 01:04:48.480
gone at any time and opened the
picture box and taken it out. Can

753
01:04:48.559 --> 01:04:51.719
you tell me, let's let's just
describe the photo. I know I'm kind

754
01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:56.400
of focusing on that, probably a
little too much, okay, But if

755
01:04:56.960 --> 01:05:00.840
first of all, was it real
clear? You could actually see the very

756
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:03.480
clear? Okay, yeah, very
clear. And that was one of the

757
01:05:03.599 --> 01:05:12.840
things in in uh Smith's book that
really bothered me because it said that I

758
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:15.119
forgot what her name was, but
somebody had contacted him and they had taken

759
01:05:16.000 --> 01:05:21.800
or described the picture that Walter had
described the picture to somebody and they thought

760
01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:29.480
it was could look like something from
out of the sea and changed like shape

761
01:05:29.519 --> 01:05:32.039
shift. I don't know what that
was about, but no, it was

762
01:05:32.920 --> 01:05:36.760
remember back you may not be as
a whole design, but if you remember

763
01:05:36.840 --> 01:05:42.920
back when the pictures with the little
Kodak cameras and they had the little scollops

764
01:05:42.960 --> 01:05:47.519
and oh absolutely, I see them
all the time in old photo albums,

765
01:05:47.559 --> 01:05:53.760
the little scarp d Yeah, right, it looked like that, and then

766
01:05:54.119 --> 01:05:58.119
it had a big tree in it
and there was grass. You could tell

767
01:05:58.159 --> 01:06:01.719
it wasn't a yard because the grass
was like knee higher. So um and

768
01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:10.679
the two men, you know,
holding this alien um and it's it's very

769
01:06:10.800 --> 01:06:17.280
clear. And I can remember people
asking me questions about the feet or the

770
01:06:17.639 --> 01:06:23.599
legs. I couldn't tell you a
lot about them because I was always fixated

771
01:06:23.880 --> 01:06:30.920
on the eyes. There's something very
haunting about the eyes. They almost have

772
01:06:30.039 --> 01:06:36.199
an energy of their own and it's
otherworldly. And it didn't frighten me as

773
01:06:36.239 --> 01:06:44.519
a child. It just pulled me
in and and I really always had a

774
01:06:45.000 --> 01:06:51.639
feeling of sympathy for them because being
what they were according to my granddad,

775
01:06:53.000 --> 01:06:57.360
you know, it's that's something that
they're very far from home and they've crashed,

776
01:06:57.440 --> 01:07:00.559
and you know, there's there was
always a little bit of a sadness

777
01:07:00.639 --> 01:07:03.920
to me. And but yeah,
the picture was very clear. Now I

778
01:07:04.039 --> 01:07:08.000
just want to I want to mention
something about eyes. First of all,

779
01:07:08.519 --> 01:07:12.360
in a conversation that I had with
Travis Walton, he said, yeah,

780
01:07:13.159 --> 01:07:16.360
the eyes, you know, we
were the scariest part of all. And

781
01:07:18.320 --> 01:07:23.199
yeah, and then the uh,
you know, the stare he said,

782
01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:27.920
the stair was something. And then
I had a conversation last summer with someone

783
01:07:28.000 --> 01:07:32.719
that was a girl. Um that
was involved um at the Ariel school.

784
01:07:33.400 --> 01:07:39.599
Um, you know encounter radiated.
Um. No that was but I know

785
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:44.480
who that is, um God.
Her name Selma, Selma siddek Um.

786
01:07:45.000 --> 01:07:48.800
And she said that when she had
to leave to find out if her brother

787
01:07:48.880 --> 01:07:53.559
and sister were okay in the schoolyard, she said, breaking that stare was

788
01:07:53.880 --> 01:07:58.000
from that being whatever it was,
was one of the hardest things she'd ever

789
01:07:58.119 --> 01:08:00.280
done, is to break the stair
to go. It's very hypnotic. It

790
01:08:00.480 --> 01:08:04.000
pulls you in, even from the
photograph. I mean, I wasn't.

791
01:08:04.360 --> 01:08:10.880
I don't know how granddad felt,
but I know his perspectives changed, and

792
01:08:11.519 --> 01:08:14.559
you know he was very out of
the box, more so than he had

793
01:08:14.599 --> 01:08:18.199
ever been after that much more loving. He was always a loving person,

794
01:08:18.279 --> 01:08:25.239
but outwardly showing it. And uh, it is very hypnotic, even through

795
01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:30.359
the photograph. It was to me. Yeah, So when when you when

796
01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:32.920
your grandfather came out and said he
said, I'm only going to tell this

797
01:08:33.000 --> 01:08:39.199
one time and told the story.
Um. Did I know this is kind

798
01:08:39.239 --> 01:08:42.399
of a weird question, perhaps,
but did anyone write any notes or this

799
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:46.640
is you said that your father and
your grandmother both remembered it quite differently.

800
01:08:47.600 --> 01:08:51.600
Are those the only two perspectives that
you had this? Well, it isn't

801
01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:59.359
that they remembered it differently. It's
just that Grandma told it alm almost like

802
01:08:59.560 --> 01:09:03.960
you would read a historical document.
I see, that's my grandmother. My

803
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:13.119
grand father and Daddy were much more
chrismatic, I guess would be the word,

804
01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:18.600
and and Granddad didn't embellish, but
Dad would, Okay, you know,

805
01:09:19.039 --> 01:09:24.039
if if one was you know,
one was a good thing, then

806
01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:27.520
put two in there. That's even
better, you know. So he had

807
01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:31.760
that that about him, and that
part I didn't trust exactly. So I

808
01:09:31.920 --> 01:09:38.159
needed to hear it from more than
that perspective in order to really get to

809
01:09:38.479 --> 01:09:44.720
what the real truth was. So
I think that is amazing that it changed

810
01:09:45.319 --> 01:09:49.039
changed his perspective, as sounds like
it did a little bit, or you

811
01:09:49.119 --> 01:09:55.119
know, made him more open,
as you said, and he kept his

812
01:09:55.199 --> 01:09:58.119
word all the way to the end. He never ever would even like on

813
01:09:58.279 --> 01:10:01.079
his last few days, he would
never talk about it again, as far

814
01:10:01.199 --> 01:10:04.439
as I know, he never did. Now. I think from what Daddy

815
01:10:04.520 --> 01:10:11.479
said that they may have had a
few private conversations. If Dad would come

816
01:10:11.560 --> 01:10:15.800
up with a question. Um,
he may have answered it, but to

817
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:25.000
him only. It was more through
Granddad's behavior and the way he handles things

818
01:10:25.600 --> 01:10:30.840
that we could tell a difference in
him. But no, he didn't ever

819
01:10:30.039 --> 01:10:34.760
speak publicly to anybody else, but
he was he was a private man to

820
01:10:34.840 --> 01:10:41.359
begin with. Now, back then, they wouldn't have called it flying saucerer

821
01:10:41.479 --> 01:10:45.319
or UFO or did the word did
you? Did I hear you say the

822
01:10:45.399 --> 01:10:47.800
word a spaceship? Did they did
they call it that? Or what did

823
01:10:47.840 --> 01:10:50.319
they what do they say? What
did they think that crasher? What were

824
01:10:50.359 --> 01:10:56.239
they talking about? On the site? Well, on the site, Um,

825
01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:03.840
they just called it what many different
things. Uh, one would call

826
01:11:03.920 --> 01:11:10.399
it a spaceship, one would call
it something from outer space or beyond our

827
01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:16.479
world. I mean there were several
different terms used because there wasn't anything that

828
01:11:16.960 --> 01:11:27.760
at the time. One man called
it a cigar like m and which is

829
01:11:28.560 --> 01:11:31.680
it is a lot of the there's
a lot of descriptions of the cigar shape

830
01:11:31.720 --> 01:11:36.119
craft. So yeah, it certainly
could have been well and it is from

831
01:11:36.199 --> 01:11:41.520
what angle do you see it?
I don't know that anybody ever saw it

832
01:11:42.439 --> 01:11:47.039
as it came down, it was
already crashed and so as you kind of

833
01:11:47.159 --> 01:11:53.600
drove over the little hill, um
and there it was. It depended on

834
01:11:53.800 --> 01:11:59.199
what angle, what direction you were
coming that you saw right, which could

835
01:11:59.279 --> 01:12:01.239
make the difference as well. Yeah, but yeah, they called it several

836
01:12:01.319 --> 01:12:05.399
things. Now. It always makes
you wonder. Okay, So if this

837
01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:12.439
truly did happen, and it sounds
like it a very believable case. Um,

838
01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:17.159
if this happened, what the heck
did they do with the bodies?

839
01:12:17.199 --> 01:12:20.560
What the heck did they do with
what the remains of the craft? Um?

840
01:12:20.840 --> 01:12:26.399
You know, I mean that's always
that's always a question. The military

841
01:12:26.600 --> 01:12:29.920
came and took it all away?
Yeah, and where to go? That's

842
01:12:30.359 --> 01:12:36.800
not unlike uh well different at the
time, different basis. I remember when

843
01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:43.600
I was talking to Nail, the
retired major general. Um, he spoke

844
01:12:43.680 --> 01:12:48.520
of of uh right Patterson, he
spoke of the right field. At the

845
01:12:48.600 --> 01:12:56.119
time, it was called yeah and
in uh one on the east coast of

846
01:12:56.279 --> 01:13:00.920
the west coast of He never gave
the name because but it's they had one

847
01:13:01.039 --> 01:13:06.039
hangar there, uh and and they
you could walk around it, they weren't

848
01:13:06.079 --> 01:13:10.680
allowed to touch it, they weren't
allowed to go into it. Uh.

849
01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:15.079
And when everything would happen. Even
being retired, he used to be called

850
01:13:15.239 --> 01:13:25.039
back to Washington for what he called
gray outs. Um. And I'm not

851
01:13:25.359 --> 01:13:29.079
sure because he couldn't go into it
as to what those were, but they

852
01:13:29.159 --> 01:13:34.079
were of high national security and very
very secretive. Wow. And now the

853
01:13:34.239 --> 01:13:41.840
hieroglyphics are what appeared to be hieroglyphics. That's that's pretty very interesting to me.

854
01:13:42.000 --> 01:13:45.159
First of all, there's two other
cases that are pretty well known purportedly

855
01:13:45.279 --> 01:13:49.560
that there were hieroglyphic glyphics. One
of them would be of course Roswell and

856
01:13:49.680 --> 01:13:58.720
the second one randolsham Forest. H. Yeah, there was someone that supposedly

857
01:13:58.800 --> 01:14:02.359
went right up and actually the craft
named Jem Pens Peniston, who's actually going

858
01:14:02.399 --> 01:14:06.399
to be on this show this show
here and uh sometime in April. Um.

859
01:14:08.039 --> 01:14:13.159
But you'll be enjoying him. What's
that you'll enjoy him? Well?

860
01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:17.079
Yeah, so they both talked about
the same thing. Uh, you know,

861
01:14:17.319 --> 01:14:20.359
I mean, you know, there
were stories about hieroglyphics, which I

862
01:14:20.399 --> 01:14:27.720
think is really interesting. I guess, um it it makes sense. I

863
01:14:27.800 --> 01:14:31.000
mean it's like all any craft that
we have that goes out there into space

864
01:14:31.119 --> 01:14:35.079
or anywhere else has you know,
as far as America goes has the flag

865
01:14:35.199 --> 01:14:38.840
on it, and you know all
kinds of numbers and things like that,

866
01:14:39.199 --> 01:14:45.079
right, Yeah, that's not surprising. And and from from what I've seen,

867
01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:50.079
because Daddy tried to show me kind
of you know what they look like

868
01:14:51.279 --> 01:14:59.000
symbols, and they can look very
similar. And the closest thing that people

869
01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:04.560
have seen in a lot of cases
are the Egyptian hieroglyphics. M Well,

870
01:15:04.600 --> 01:15:09.479
they tell they tell the story.
Every symbol tells a story. Now,

871
01:15:10.359 --> 01:15:15.279
let's let's talk now about what has
happened in your family. You started to

872
01:15:15.399 --> 01:15:19.920
mention that that you feel as though
that there's been abductions and you have a

873
01:15:20.039 --> 01:15:25.439
personal you have personal experience in that. So, um, if you would,

874
01:15:25.720 --> 01:15:29.760
if it's something that's not too painful
to talk about, can you tell

875
01:15:29.840 --> 01:15:33.239
the listening audience what what what has
happened? Well, I can tell you

876
01:15:33.560 --> 01:15:41.920
of some in the family. My
older sister probably is the one that had

877
01:15:42.079 --> 01:15:45.960
and she's deceased now, but before
she passed away, she wrote a notarized

878
01:15:46.840 --> 01:15:54.560
letter stating that this was true,
true information. She recalled a lot of

879
01:15:54.800 --> 01:16:02.319
the actual being floated into out the
window and into the spacecraft and experiments being

880
01:16:02.359 --> 01:16:08.600
done, although she didn't know what
was being done. And the interesting thing

881
01:16:08.760 --> 01:16:12.119
is we used to have in depth
conversations, her and I. We were

882
01:16:12.319 --> 01:16:16.600
very close best friends. And at
one point, when I was first beginning

883
01:16:16.680 --> 01:16:23.319
to dip my toe in the UFO
stuff, trying to make myself aware,

884
01:16:24.399 --> 01:16:28.760
we had I said, sister,
tell me some of your experiences and I'll

885
01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:32.600
tell you you know what I have. And about a month later, Raymond

886
01:16:32.720 --> 01:16:35.760
Fowler wrote me a letter and asked
could he speak with her? Would she

887
01:16:35.880 --> 01:16:42.119
speak to him? And I went
to her and asked her, and she

888
01:16:42.319 --> 01:16:45.279
looked at me with the blankest face
I've ever seen, and she said,

889
01:16:45.319 --> 01:16:50.880
I don't have any idea what you're
talking about. Really, Yes, I

890
01:16:51.159 --> 01:16:57.800
was chilled to the bones. And
I tried to refresh your memory. Didn't

891
01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:01.199
do one bit of good that,
yeah, And so I had to write

892
01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:05.560
back and tell him what had happened. And she never did come forward with

893
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:13.479
that. But later some of some
other situations would come about myself. I

894
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:19.319
can recall being if it started to
get dark, I would be very very

895
01:17:19.479 --> 01:17:24.560
afraid, and I didn't understand why, but I would wait for my family

896
01:17:24.640 --> 01:17:27.680
to go to bed, my mother
especially, and I would go in the

897
01:17:27.760 --> 01:17:30.399
bathroom and shut the door and turn
the light on, and I would stay

898
01:17:30.479 --> 01:17:34.880
there until I would see daylight come
in up to the window, and then

899
01:17:34.920 --> 01:17:42.479
I would quickly go get in my
bed, exhausting. It's well, it

900
01:17:42.880 --> 01:17:49.239
was, and I didn't quite understand
why, but later understood that the missing

901
01:17:49.359 --> 01:17:54.600
time, uh you know, could
be retained. You could go back and

902
01:17:54.680 --> 01:17:57.880
reclaim it. I didn't want to. I didn't care what was in there.

903
01:17:58.000 --> 01:18:00.720
I just knew I didn't want it
anymore. And I have a daughter

904
01:18:01.199 --> 01:18:06.560
and adoptive son that I have a
bedroom here in my home, and both

905
01:18:06.680 --> 01:18:11.840
of them started out at one time
in that bedroom and they both asked to

906
01:18:11.960 --> 01:18:17.760
be moved because they come to that
window and they don't want to be taken.

907
01:18:19.600 --> 01:18:26.520
And so you know that happens not
a lot, but occasionally, and

908
01:18:27.039 --> 01:18:32.720
they do recall being taken, and
my younger brother does as well. Wow.

909
01:18:32.880 --> 01:18:36.399
Well, this is the question came
up in the chat room earlier,

910
01:18:36.479 --> 01:18:43.159
and it's always been a curious one
to me, is why the multiple abductions

911
01:18:43.359 --> 01:18:46.199
if these are happening. But I
want to ask you this question first before

912
01:18:46.239 --> 01:18:50.760
you answer that, when when was
it you first recall it happening? Or

913
01:18:50.920 --> 01:18:57.239
your sister talked about it happening.
I'm talking about what year approximately, if

914
01:18:57.279 --> 01:19:01.399
you can remember the first time that
she talked about it to me, she

915
01:19:01.720 --> 01:19:09.359
was about it was in the late
sixties, middle sixties to early late sixties.

916
01:19:09.680 --> 01:19:14.359
Wow. So during that time,
I can only think of Betty and

917
01:19:14.520 --> 01:19:19.439
Barney Hill in nineteen sixty one.
But you never really heard about any abduction

918
01:19:19.680 --> 01:19:26.439
type situations happening for many, many
years. And when she was born,

919
01:19:27.760 --> 01:19:30.880
she was born with the gift of
clarivoyance. We didn't know that's what it

920
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:36.199
was called. But in it's scared
her to day. She's probably the most

921
01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:43.039
gifted clarivoyant I have ever met.
And it's scared her. Like I said,

922
01:19:43.159 --> 01:19:49.159
and this was in the fifties.
She would see visions and pictures of

923
01:19:49.319 --> 01:19:55.640
things on the magnitude of nine to
eleven. And back in the fifties you

924
01:19:55.800 --> 01:20:00.800
just didn't that just wouldn't heard of. And my grand mother, my mother's

925
01:20:00.880 --> 01:20:03.640
mother, who lived with us most
of her life, was a great deal

926
01:20:03.880 --> 01:20:08.520
of Indians. And she told her, she said, I need if you're

927
01:20:08.600 --> 01:20:12.479
not comfortable with that gift God has
given you, ask him to take it

928
01:20:12.520 --> 01:20:15.920
away and he will it won't make
him mad, and she did and it

929
01:20:15.000 --> 01:20:21.960
went away. So it can be
very, very difficult. And I hadn't

930
01:20:23.000 --> 01:20:28.479
heard as far as I was fascinated
when I heard about Betty Andrews. I

931
01:20:28.640 --> 01:20:35.119
heard about it in the seventies,
so you had already had situations happening before

932
01:20:35.239 --> 01:20:39.920
that time. Then, oh gosh, yes, one time, one time

933
01:20:39.960 --> 01:20:44.520
that I remember, the entire family
was involved. There were bad storms going

934
01:20:44.640 --> 01:20:48.600
on and we were We used to
go every weekend on a Saturday. We

935
01:20:48.720 --> 01:20:53.840
got our allowance and mom and dad
would take us into town or two town

936
01:20:54.479 --> 01:20:58.560
where we could to spend our allowances
and it would speak things for us.

937
01:20:59.119 --> 01:21:04.359
And so we left our house and
headed to the town nearest to us,

938
01:21:05.840 --> 01:21:14.119
and it took us by well,
we were gone by our time, an

939
01:21:14.199 --> 01:21:17.960
hour and a half to what should
have been a twenty minute bride, and

940
01:21:18.079 --> 01:21:24.560
instead of ending up the town that
we were headed to, we were driving

941
01:21:24.640 --> 01:21:29.760
back on our own driveway, and
we don't know how the car got turned

942
01:21:29.800 --> 01:21:33.000
around, and my dad finally surmised, well, maybe a tornado who came

943
01:21:33.039 --> 01:21:38.840
and picked us up. And we
didn't know it took us back, but

944
01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:43.560
we later realized that it had to
have been an encounter of some kind.

945
01:21:44.800 --> 01:21:47.199
So yes, I've lived with us
my whole life, my whole family has.

946
01:21:48.319 --> 01:21:54.680
That's amazing. And of course the
missing time thing, I don't even

947
01:21:54.760 --> 01:21:58.279
know if that was discussed for a
long time, even from you know,

948
01:21:58.399 --> 01:22:02.000
Betty and Burney Hill. But that's
what you hear. You know, hear

949
01:22:02.640 --> 01:22:06.760
this type of thing all the time, and um, and people ending up

950
01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:11.000
like you're, like you were saying, ending up in a completely different place

951
01:22:11.079 --> 01:22:15.840
than they remember they were at.
But the whole entire family that that's that's

952
01:22:15.880 --> 01:22:20.199
an amazing that's a crazy, crazy
well you know, I think there's probably

953
01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:25.319
a lot more of it, but
it's not spoken of or the people.

954
01:22:25.399 --> 01:22:29.239
Don't you You kind of have to
go through time and then look back and

955
01:22:29.600 --> 01:22:32.760
see the different things that happened and
when, and it begins then to make

956
01:22:32.880 --> 01:22:38.880
sense or you see the pattern of
it. But we were always from a

957
01:22:39.279 --> 01:22:42.560
you know, a very eclectic family. In fact, I can remember my

958
01:22:42.680 --> 01:22:46.600
grand my grandfather, Uh, we
would always be in church. Of course,

959
01:22:46.960 --> 01:22:50.720
he'd be preaching along and when I
was little, Um, I would

960
01:22:50.760 --> 01:22:54.319
hear him do a sermon and I
would say it and I'd say, grateful,

961
01:22:54.399 --> 01:22:58.279
that's wrong. That's out right,
and of course everybody would just roar

962
01:22:58.600 --> 01:23:01.880
because it's a kid. But I
knew at the time what he was saying

963
01:23:02.039 --> 01:23:09.239
was wrong, wasn't the truth?
Well, um, someone want to know

964
01:23:09.319 --> 01:23:14.560
and chat. Have you ever seen
UFO yourself? Yes? With at once?

965
01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:17.920
Oh, can you describe? Well, all of my family has um

966
01:23:20.000 --> 01:23:26.880
the one that well, the one
that I saw was over over our home

967
01:23:26.960 --> 01:23:32.640
at one time, UM, and
we had been out playing and we came

968
01:23:33.319 --> 01:23:38.039
back in there. There were four
of us. I have two sisters and

969
01:23:38.159 --> 01:23:45.520
a brother, UM. And I
remember I get it by feeling. I

970
01:23:45.800 --> 01:23:51.600
feel them more than anything, because
there is there's an intensity and a vibration

971
01:23:51.800 --> 01:23:59.319
to it that is very very hard
to ignore if you've ever heard it or

972
01:23:59.399 --> 01:24:05.680
felt it. UM. So I
felt that, and I knew that one

973
01:24:05.840 --> 01:24:12.039
was either there was coming UM,
and so I didn't want to alarm anybody

974
01:24:12.079 --> 01:24:17.399
else in case I was wrong.
And I stepped outside onto the porch and

975
01:24:19.079 --> 01:24:24.079
way. It was quite ways from
me, so it didn't appear to be

976
01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:28.520
as large as it probably was.
And I was young anyway, but I

977
01:24:28.640 --> 01:24:34.960
saw one go skimming across the sky
above tree level. And as I looked

978
01:24:35.039 --> 01:24:42.880
up the minute I caught my eye
in that range. It was gone within

979
01:24:44.000 --> 01:24:47.840
a blink of the eye. Wow. Well interesting. So, um,

980
01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:56.960
when when you're your your grandfather,
UM, when he was describing, you

981
01:24:57.039 --> 01:25:01.199
know, being there on the site
U and he saw that this crash was

982
01:25:02.199 --> 01:25:05.960
open, you know, the craft
was actually open or broken open or something

983
01:25:06.079 --> 01:25:11.720
like that, did he ever say
the size of it about, you know,

984
01:25:11.960 --> 01:25:15.880
like it looked like it was thirty
feet wide, or did he ever

985
01:25:15.159 --> 01:25:25.520
talk about how it didn't give dimensions
to anything I heard? Ever, I

986
01:25:25.680 --> 01:25:30.319
don't know that. I don't remember
my dad even mentioning it. I don't

987
01:25:30.359 --> 01:25:33.840
think it was ever mentioned elstits between
the two of them privately, we didn't

988
01:25:33.840 --> 01:25:38.000
ever hear about it. And did
he ever say how far off of the

989
01:25:38.960 --> 01:25:44.319
main road that it was where they
went to? Um, they had gone

990
01:25:44.399 --> 01:25:49.399
he said about all between thirteen and
fifteen miles outside of town, and then

991
01:25:49.800 --> 01:25:57.039
they parked on the side of the
road and went into the field about a

992
01:25:57.560 --> 01:26:01.479
quarter two half a mile in to
the wreckage to where it had happened.

993
01:26:02.159 --> 01:26:06.840
And did did they ever anyone ever
say to him how they found this?

994
01:26:08.399 --> 01:26:11.880
I mean, was there any casual
conversation or was it all just you go

995
01:26:12.079 --> 01:26:14.680
there, you blessed the parties,
and you leave. It was it that

996
01:26:14.800 --> 01:26:17.560
type of thing. No, I
think he had a little bit of conversation

997
01:26:17.720 --> 01:26:23.640
with the owners of the property because
they were standing out there. I mean

998
01:26:23.720 --> 01:26:28.479
they were already there the property.
Okay, Yeah, they had walked down

999
01:26:28.640 --> 01:26:34.760
from the house and a farming family
and man and wife, and you know,

1000
01:26:34.920 --> 01:26:43.319
they were concerned and he was just
I think from what Grandma said that

1001
01:26:43.720 --> 01:26:49.199
Granddad told her that he was kind
of like in shock. He didn't say

1002
01:26:49.600 --> 01:26:55.239
very much, but by the look
on his face, Granddad was a little

1003
01:26:55.279 --> 01:27:00.600
concerned about he and his wife both
that you know, they just couldn't accept

1004
01:27:00.680 --> 01:27:03.800
what they were saying. Just just
how hard to accept, right right?

1005
01:27:03.960 --> 01:27:10.279
Well, uh, I mean it's
just completely out of you know, the

1006
01:27:10.359 --> 01:27:14.720
realm of what you would expect to
see. So it's really it's really hard

1007
01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:17.039
to get your head around when you
see something like that. It certainly completely

1008
01:27:17.359 --> 01:27:23.920
could be in shock. So you're
not the first person on the show that

1009
01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:28.319
has said that they have felt like
there was going to be you know,

1010
01:27:28.680 --> 01:27:31.920
a sighting or UFO. But but
why did you why did you hold back?

1011
01:27:32.960 --> 01:27:38.359
Why do you think you held back
on not telling anyone like when when

1012
01:27:38.399 --> 01:27:42.439
you had that feeling, did you
were you embarrassed about it? Or Oh

1013
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:45.840
no, No, I wasn't embarrassed
about it, And I didn't think about

1014
01:27:45.439 --> 01:27:51.920
any of that. It's it's like
your mindset changes, I see, and

1015
01:27:53.119 --> 01:27:58.359
you're not really thinking of what you
ordinarily would if your mind is not that

1016
01:27:58.560 --> 01:28:02.880
of a regular Okay, it's the
best way I know how to describe it.

1017
01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:08.560
Uh huh. And did you the
part where you told us about you

1018
01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:12.800
know, your sister just completely Um, I don't know if it's denying it

1019
01:28:12.920 --> 01:28:15.000
or do you think that she totally
forgot I mean, I mean like it

1020
01:28:15.119 --> 01:28:18.359
was wiped out. No, I
think it had been wiped completely out of

1021
01:28:18.399 --> 01:28:24.319
her mind, like it never happened. Because my sister we we couldn't tell

1022
01:28:24.600 --> 01:28:28.840
each other a lie or a story
or I mean, we were that transparent

1023
01:28:28.920 --> 01:28:30.800
with each other, and it was
just like I could tell it was like

1024
01:28:30.880 --> 01:28:35.800
all of a sudden nobody was home, you know, just the eyes kind

1025
01:28:35.840 --> 01:28:40.359
of like glazed over, and she
looked at me like, who are you?

1026
01:28:41.279 --> 01:28:45.399
Wow, what are you talking about? And so I didn't push it

1027
01:28:45.479 --> 01:28:49.680
at the time, and I didn't
want to know what was in my missing

1028
01:28:49.760 --> 01:28:54.720
time for a long, long time, and I didn't trust your mind is

1029
01:28:54.760 --> 01:29:00.520
a very important thing to guard,
and I didn't want just anybody, uh

1030
01:29:00.640 --> 01:29:06.479
to hypnotize me. At one point
I was thought about having Bud Hopkins.

1031
01:29:08.000 --> 01:29:11.479
I would have pressed it him and
he but he was sick at the time.

1032
01:29:11.760 --> 01:29:15.479
And the last time I talked with
the Stan, I hadn't heard from

1033
01:29:15.560 --> 01:29:17.840
him, and I didn't want to
bother him. And and so Stan said

1034
01:29:17.960 --> 01:29:25.079
he contacted him. He was very
sick. Um. But I was regressed

1035
01:29:25.640 --> 01:29:30.159
one time and had one experience come
through a little bit, um, and

1036
01:29:30.279 --> 01:29:33.880
that was enough for me. I
bet. I mean, that's that's something

1037
01:29:33.960 --> 01:29:40.079
a lot of people are very reluctant
to do. And U and I totally

1038
01:29:40.159 --> 01:29:44.600
get that. And you know,
I'm not sure if something like that that

1039
01:29:44.760 --> 01:29:48.079
happened to me, I think I
would probably be the same way. Um.

1040
01:29:49.479 --> 01:29:54.119
I'm sorry. I'm in a hotel
room and my dog keeps barking.

1041
01:29:54.439 --> 01:29:58.560
I do apologize for that. No, that's okay. I can't do anything

1042
01:29:58.600 --> 01:30:02.079
about that right now. Um.
Yeah, can you talk about the more

1043
01:30:02.119 --> 01:30:09.119
about what you consider the gifts that
your family had a clairvoyance? What about

1044
01:30:09.159 --> 01:30:14.560
you you? Well? Yes,
Um, for the last oh thirty five

1045
01:30:14.640 --> 01:30:17.760
years of my life. Um,
we used to do what my mother called

1046
01:30:17.840 --> 01:30:23.520
fortune helen. You know. Her
and Grandma used the Decca cards and they

1047
01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:27.359
would shovel cards and they would give
what they called reading people and tell them

1048
01:30:27.399 --> 01:30:30.760
about their future. That had more
to do with my grandma and her Native

1049
01:30:30.800 --> 01:30:36.840
American side than it did anything else. But I when I came in,

1050
01:30:38.199 --> 01:30:45.800
I touch people. If I touch
you, I can tell you if a

1051
01:30:45.880 --> 01:30:51.479
person is genuine, if they're lying
to you, if they're not really connected,

1052
01:30:51.920 --> 01:30:58.039
if you will oftentimes I have a
lot of people they'll say, well,

1053
01:30:58.279 --> 01:31:01.760
is so and so real for real? Can I go and pay my

1054
01:31:01.880 --> 01:31:04.399
money to that person? If I
can touch them, I can tell you.

1055
01:31:05.800 --> 01:31:12.319
And I read do readings for people
and have for the last thirty years

1056
01:31:13.399 --> 01:31:16.840
by touch. I'm not saying that
there aren't other people that are psychic that

1057
01:31:16.960 --> 01:31:24.479
have those abilities. I'm just it's
not mine. And then at different times

1058
01:31:24.600 --> 01:31:29.439
when situations come up, I have
worked with the police for missing people to

1059
01:31:29.680 --> 01:31:35.079
bring me Oh yes, if you
bring me something that I can touch that

1060
01:31:35.479 --> 01:31:44.439
was the person's I can give you
information about them. And I don't like

1061
01:31:44.560 --> 01:31:47.439
to do those cases because you you
share that space and you go through some

1062
01:31:47.600 --> 01:31:51.479
of it. But if God tells
me to do it, I do it.

1063
01:31:53.520 --> 01:32:01.760
So I do that occasionally and I
can take information. I had to

1064
01:32:01.960 --> 01:32:08.479
learn to put energy around me and
protection around me so that when I go

1065
01:32:08.640 --> 01:32:15.520
somewhere like Walmart, I don't pick
up everything everybody's stuff. So, you

1066
01:32:15.640 --> 01:32:20.479
know, it's it's a gift in
one way. In another way, it's

1067
01:32:21.119 --> 01:32:25.680
not always wonderful to know things that
you know you're not supposed to know.

1068
01:32:27.800 --> 01:32:33.039
I'm sure, but it's it's I
have it, and I've learned that the

1069
01:32:33.760 --> 01:32:38.239
you know, the jargon that goes
with it. As far as I didn't

1070
01:32:38.279 --> 01:32:41.600
know what psychometry was, I now
know what it is. All I knew

1071
01:32:41.680 --> 01:32:46.119
was somebody put a picture in my
hand one time, and immediately I began

1072
01:32:46.199 --> 01:32:53.520
to see pictures just like watching them
a movie screen. Well, and you

1073
01:32:53.640 --> 01:32:56.920
know, I relay that information.
I have a lot of minute come to

1074
01:32:57.039 --> 01:33:01.079
me for investments. It's not just
all psychic stuff. I mean it's everyday

1075
01:33:01.199 --> 01:33:08.479
nuts in both things that they that
they want to know. Wow, someone

1076
01:33:08.520 --> 01:33:11.880
in chat we've already touched on this
a little bit, but maybe we can

1077
01:33:11.920 --> 01:33:17.359
talk a little bit more. Have
you looked into cases that were you know,

1078
01:33:17.479 --> 01:33:21.840
like Travis Walton and Betty and Barney
Hill, cases like that. Have

1079
01:33:23.039 --> 01:33:27.000
you paid attention to those things?
You know, I'm not a researcher,

1080
01:33:28.039 --> 01:33:32.199
I'm an experiencer. Yeah, and
they're different than they all have their place.

1081
01:33:32.920 --> 01:33:36.239
I know that Travis. The first
time I met him and I touched

1082
01:33:36.359 --> 01:33:43.079
him, I made him cry and
I cried. I didn't mean to make

1083
01:33:43.159 --> 01:33:47.399
him cry, but there is that. I think it's that so knowingness that

1084
01:33:47.560 --> 01:33:53.199
you've been where they are. My
question to him was, I was not

1085
01:33:53.520 --> 01:33:58.920
prepared for the politics and all the
stuff that goes along with this kind of

1086
01:33:59.000 --> 01:34:03.680
stuff. I didn't know it existed. And so many people had been trying

1087
01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:08.079
to get me to change when it
happened, to do change this and to

1088
01:34:08.279 --> 01:34:12.079
change that. And I asked him, did that happen to him? And

1089
01:34:12.319 --> 01:34:16.640
he looked at me and he said
all the time, stay true to your

1090
01:34:16.720 --> 01:34:21.800
truth. And there's a bond for
me. And I haven't talked to him

1091
01:34:21.800 --> 01:34:26.880
about it at all. And I
don't mean to imply that we're close friends.

1092
01:34:26.960 --> 01:34:29.560
Were not. But I have been
where he's I had, and I've

1093
01:34:29.600 --> 01:34:33.199
heard him speak, and I've touched
him, and there's just something that when

1094
01:34:33.239 --> 01:34:39.119
I see him, it's like seeing
the truth and another person. I mean

1095
01:34:39.199 --> 01:34:43.199
the truth to the depths of what
it is. He knows. Well,

1096
01:34:43.199 --> 01:34:47.560
I'll tell you I have never felt
anything but honesty. And you know,

1097
01:34:47.680 --> 01:34:51.560
sitting across from him talking to him, Yeah, the best time, not

1098
01:34:51.760 --> 01:34:55.000
talking on the show. The best
time I sat. I was at a

1099
01:34:55.079 --> 01:34:58.680
conference that he was at, and
he and I were sitting in a back

1100
01:34:58.800 --> 01:35:01.720
room right by a restaurant or where
the wait staff was going in and out,

1101
01:35:02.119 --> 01:35:05.439
and we sat there for about a
couple hours and just talked about other

1102
01:35:05.600 --> 01:35:09.600
things, and then we got into
a real deep, you know, some

1103
01:35:09.800 --> 01:35:15.359
deep, really deep conversations. And
you know off the record that I think

1104
01:35:15.840 --> 01:35:23.600
Travis is one hundred percent legit myself
and absolutely yeah. And when he lost

1105
01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:28.399
his brother, he just I mean
his brother was his his you know,

1106
01:35:28.840 --> 01:35:35.279
rug for him and and you know
that happens with a lot of people.

1107
01:35:35.359 --> 01:35:40.119
When you know somebody and you know
that they are real to the core and

1108
01:35:40.199 --> 01:35:43.520
the soul of who they are,
when you lose them, you really lost

1109
01:35:43.680 --> 01:35:48.680
something. I experienced that with Jim
Marris right right. I had Jim Marris

1110
01:35:48.720 --> 01:35:53.560
on the show one time. He's
a nice guy. He was fun to

1111
01:35:53.600 --> 01:35:57.880
talk to. Yeah, yeah,
he was well, you know, he

1112
01:35:58.039 --> 01:36:01.560
made a joke of just about everything. And several times he would say,

1113
01:36:01.840 --> 01:36:05.600
Charlotte, why do I not get
approached this way or that way? And

1114
01:36:05.640 --> 01:36:10.920
I'd say, Jim, you don't
even know the value of who you are.

1115
01:36:11.479 --> 01:36:14.039
And if you don't know it,
you know, other people are not

1116
01:36:14.119 --> 01:36:16.880
going to respect either. They don't
respect that. Did they take it as

1117
01:36:16.920 --> 01:36:20.159
a joke? And he was shaky, said he said, just too much

1118
01:36:20.159 --> 01:36:25.560
of a good old boy, and
that was him. Yeah, he was

1119
01:36:25.640 --> 01:36:30.960
a Texan too. And did you
go near each other? We didn't,

1120
01:36:30.119 --> 01:36:34.479
Well, maybe eighty some miles close
enough that he would come here for his

1121
01:36:34.640 --> 01:36:39.840
reading sometimes and I'd go spend the
weekend at his house. And when he

1122
01:36:40.000 --> 01:36:45.319
passed, we we shot some of
his ashes out of a cannon. Oh

1123
01:36:45.439 --> 01:36:48.000
my goodness. Oh he's quite.
He was quite the character. Quite the

1124
01:36:48.119 --> 01:36:54.600
character. Yeah, yeah, interesting, interesting, going back to going back

1125
01:36:54.640 --> 01:36:59.439
to this case, as far as
you know, has anyone else that was

1126
01:36:59.560 --> 01:37:03.720
on that sight um talked about you
know, any other witness talked about what

1127
01:37:03.920 --> 01:37:10.439
they saw? Not not firsthand,
No, that not that I'm aware of.

1128
01:37:10.520 --> 01:37:15.800
The closest that there has been is
that when Ryan Wood did some of

1129
01:37:15.000 --> 01:37:19.800
his research for the book that I
was aware of and agreed to let him

1130
01:37:19.840 --> 01:37:26.039
do. Um would have been the
son of the sheriff at the time,

1131
01:37:26.680 --> 01:37:31.800
and it was that he he didn't
have firsthand knowledge, but he said he

1132
01:37:31.920 --> 01:37:43.279
did remember hearing of a christ Ufo
and and little people Um, and that

1133
01:37:43.399 --> 01:37:46.479
would be the only one that I'm
aware of. Now I don't know what

1134
01:37:46.680 --> 01:37:54.119
research I haven't ivan't. You know. After he did the book, he

1135
01:37:54.279 --> 01:37:58.279
went on to other things, and
so did I. But he could have

1136
01:37:58.399 --> 01:38:02.439
gotten more information because he had a
website up for people to contact him.

1137
01:38:03.399 --> 01:38:10.680
But I haven't heard from him that
he found anybody. Yeah, with firsday

1138
01:38:10.720 --> 01:38:15.239
and information, you know, it
was also different times when back then,

1139
01:38:15.560 --> 01:38:18.359
you know, of course, this
was just when the war was getting ready

1140
01:38:18.399 --> 01:38:24.560
to start at the end of the
same year. Everyone listened to the government

1141
01:38:24.600 --> 01:38:27.399
of the government and somewhere from the
whole story said, you know, you

1142
01:38:27.479 --> 01:38:32.600
don't talk about this unt. They
absolutely didn't. It was a different time.

1143
01:38:33.359 --> 01:38:36.680
It was a different time today.
If this happened, there'd be iPhone

1144
01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:43.079
snapping away and you'd be on Instagram
and everything else wouldn't be possible in this

1145
01:38:43.279 --> 01:38:47.199
day and time. That's right,
Yeah, it just wouldn't Yeah, yeah,

1146
01:38:47.720 --> 01:38:51.399
that would It would just be a
viral thing. But so we have

1147
01:38:51.720 --> 01:38:57.079
we have just about ten minutes left, and so I don't know if this

1148
01:38:57.600 --> 01:39:00.199
at this point, you know,
I could take some question in from the

1149
01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:10.159
chat room, but if if you
think that besides Um Blake Paul Blake Smith's

1150
01:39:10.399 --> 01:39:14.199
book, UM, what are some
other misconceptions you said there was a lot

1151
01:39:14.279 --> 01:39:16.159
out there that was you know a
lot of people out there that were telling

1152
01:39:16.239 --> 01:39:19.319
the story and they were telling it
wrong or telling your story wrong. Well,

1153
01:39:19.760 --> 01:39:24.640
some of its little things and some
of its bigger things, like I've

1154
01:39:24.680 --> 01:39:28.439
seen it printed everywhere that granddad went
out to give last rights. He was

1155
01:39:28.520 --> 01:39:32.000
Baptists. They don't do less,
right, Cantholict does? Right? Yeah?

1156
01:39:32.039 --> 01:39:38.800
Yeah, that's Catholic Um. And
you know they can be as small

1157
01:39:38.880 --> 01:39:41.199
as that. And when I read
that, it's like, well, they

1158
01:39:41.239 --> 01:39:45.920
don't really know what you're talking about. They've read some of the other stuff,

1159
01:39:45.640 --> 01:39:54.560
Um, And misconceptions of the number
of people that were there, Like

1160
01:39:54.760 --> 01:39:58.880
they say that the picture was two
police been holding the alien. No,

1161
01:39:59.039 --> 01:40:03.479
it wasn't at all. I only
knew of the police in connection with UM

1162
01:40:04.720 --> 01:40:10.920
who came and picked up my granddad
was from the police department. UM.

1163
01:40:11.279 --> 01:40:15.159
And it had been mentioned at one
place that the FBI was there. No,

1164
01:40:15.319 --> 01:40:18.000
they weren't. Uh. The only
people that were there were the people

1165
01:40:18.119 --> 01:40:24.479
from the farmhouse one or two neighbors, which there weren't many because it was

1166
01:40:24.680 --> 01:40:29.720
the property was not close, not
like houses next door and things. Um

1167
01:40:30.119 --> 01:40:38.920
and uh. I think probably that
where the were they radio through the police,

1168
01:40:39.319 --> 01:40:43.800
like the newspaper will pick those things
up, a few people like that,

1169
01:40:43.960 --> 01:40:47.760
but there probably wasn't. I've heard
and read that there were lots of

1170
01:40:47.840 --> 01:40:57.600
people there. There wasn't maybe tops
fifteen if that many. Um. Sometimes

1171
01:40:58.159 --> 01:41:04.119
the time being earlier. I've had
some that I've read that they've got it

1172
01:41:04.239 --> 01:41:13.760
in different towns that they're close,
but not where my granddad's was. So

1173
01:41:14.079 --> 01:41:21.039
they'll have different locations, they'll have
different times of the day. This was

1174
01:41:21.279 --> 01:41:27.239
at night, you know. I
don't think anybody would think nine or nine

1175
01:41:27.399 --> 01:41:33.119
thirty nine, like six or five
or six, you know, just things

1176
01:41:33.199 --> 01:41:39.760
like that. Now, one of
the questions that always seems to come up,

1177
01:41:39.800 --> 01:41:45.239
and a question that I have to
is a crash. Why a crash?

1178
01:41:45.359 --> 01:41:47.079
I mean, of course you have
no answer. I have no answer.

1179
01:41:47.159 --> 01:41:51.800
But it is curious as to why
a craft would crash to begin with,

1180
01:41:53.039 --> 01:42:00.520
especially if it was from an alien
planet or some other place. Of

1181
01:42:00.640 --> 01:42:03.279
course, we really don't. I
don't think there's anyone that really knows for

1182
01:42:03.479 --> 01:42:11.760
sure where these things or wherever or
whatever are coming from. But still it

1183
01:42:12.000 --> 01:42:15.039
is a curious thing why a craft
would, if it did travel, you

1184
01:42:15.119 --> 01:42:19.920
know, such a long distance,
how it would crash on the Earth.

1185
01:42:20.159 --> 01:42:26.640
That is a bizarre thought. Well, I don't find it being so bizarre.

1186
01:42:28.199 --> 01:42:30.479
You know, there is no such
thing as perfection. I don't care

1187
01:42:30.560 --> 01:42:35.640
how many years you've been around or
how intelligent you've become. There is no

1188
01:42:35.760 --> 01:42:43.800
perfection, and so things can go
wrong. The fact that they travel that

1189
01:42:43.960 --> 01:42:50.760
far would to me say, the
possibility of something happen rises rather than falls,

1190
01:42:53.560 --> 01:43:00.960
and not knowing what their propulsion is. I know in the sixties,

1191
01:43:00.239 --> 01:43:08.720
Um, you know they there's a
colony under Matt Schesta. Uh, they're

1192
01:43:08.840 --> 01:43:14.039
all over And has to do with
a lot of times, the paths and

1193
01:43:14.239 --> 01:43:21.520
how they run with with actual impulses, the grids, the electronic grids.

1194
01:43:23.760 --> 01:43:27.720
Many things can go wrong, and
so I can't see why they wouldn't.

1195
01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:32.199
Okay, Well, it's always good
to hear a different perspective on that in

1196
01:43:32.359 --> 01:43:38.119
particular. And um, I you
know, it's just it's just a thought.

1197
01:43:38.199 --> 01:43:43.960
And and you know, has anyone
um that you've talked to ever thought

1198
01:43:44.159 --> 01:43:47.720
it could be something else besides aliens? Or do you think that's kind of

1199
01:43:48.000 --> 01:43:53.760
the direction that the thoughts were on
the people that interviewed you and who have

1200
01:43:53.920 --> 01:44:00.319
spoken with over the years about this, I've never had anybody, uh go

1201
01:44:00.680 --> 01:44:08.560
that direction. The majority of the
people that I've talked to believed that that's

1202
01:44:08.640 --> 01:44:15.560
the case, because it's it has
to do with not just what is in

1203
01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:21.279
front of you, but what are
you feeling? Because we are multifaceted,

1204
01:44:24.079 --> 01:44:29.159
and we're more than human beings.
We're only fifty percent human. The other

1205
01:44:29.359 --> 01:44:35.000
fifty percent is the spiritual side of
us. And that you know there are

1206
01:44:35.079 --> 01:44:41.680
no boundaries to that. And if
you and if you I started out and

1207
01:44:41.840 --> 01:44:45.359
I followed all of major religious I
attend the Department of the World Religious in

1208
01:44:45.479 --> 01:44:50.800
nineteen ninety three, there was one
hundred and twenty eight religious representatives. And

1209
01:44:50.960 --> 01:44:55.319
when you get into the nuts and
boats of all of them, there is

1210
01:44:55.359 --> 01:45:00.680
a thread that runs between them that
is who we all are we all come

1211
01:45:00.800 --> 01:45:05.399
from, and so you know knowing
that they're not like us, they don't

1212
01:45:05.479 --> 01:45:11.119
look like this. If you have
any kind of contact, you realize that,

1213
01:45:11.720 --> 01:45:17.079
and it's the feeling that you get
in your soul that this is extremely

1214
01:45:17.159 --> 01:45:21.159
different. It's not like you go
to another country and you see, yes,

1215
01:45:21.239 --> 01:45:26.920
people who look different than you do. There is a feeling of that

1216
01:45:29.800 --> 01:45:34.680
difference on the degree in that level
that it can't be from here. Hard

1217
01:45:34.760 --> 01:45:41.000
to explain. It's more about feeling
than it is explaining it. Sure.

1218
01:45:41.199 --> 01:45:46.840
Sure, going back to what you
said earlier about staying up until you know,

1219
01:45:47.159 --> 01:45:53.199
locking yourself in the bathroom Peau day
life. Yeah, did all of

1220
01:45:53.359 --> 01:45:58.520
your experiences and from what you knew
of your sister's experiences before she that all

1221
01:45:58.560 --> 01:46:03.239
got blanked out from her? Did
everything occur during the nighttime? Only it

1222
01:46:03.399 --> 01:46:08.199
didn't always, but the majority of
the time it was was at night.

1223
01:46:08.880 --> 01:46:15.039
There is it's a lot easier to
travel, to be out of your body,

1224
01:46:15.640 --> 01:46:25.079
to have experiences when the vibrational level
of the humans on the earth is

1225
01:46:25.159 --> 01:46:29.079
at a lower point, not as
much going on, not as much to

1226
01:46:29.359 --> 01:46:34.479
break that you can get through from
the other side if you will, because

1227
01:46:34.520 --> 01:46:40.920
I do a lot of connecting families
with deceased loved ones. I do a

1228
01:46:41.000 --> 01:46:45.840
lot of work with people who have
families have committed suicide. For them to

1229
01:46:45.920 --> 01:46:50.079
be able to reach through is much
easier when there's not as much of that

1230
01:46:53.079 --> 01:46:59.479
energy vibration, So it's easier at
night than it is during the day.

1231
01:47:00.840 --> 01:47:04.319
But now there are things that have
happened in a broad daylight. Uh huh

1232
01:47:04.640 --> 01:47:13.439
huh. And you know the situation
with your family, you know, you

1233
01:47:13.520 --> 01:47:16.279
said you got to speak to your
grandmother. I don't know exactly when she

1234
01:47:17.000 --> 01:47:23.079
passed eighty four, nineteen eighty four, so there was a lot of talk.

1235
01:47:23.359 --> 01:47:26.800
Um, you know, she saw
all the UFO flaps going on and

1236
01:47:26.880 --> 01:47:30.199
stuff like that. Do you know
did your family pay attention to those things

1237
01:47:30.399 --> 01:47:34.000
or was this just something that um, you know, it was just the

1238
01:47:34.119 --> 01:47:41.319
family situation that happened and they didn't
discuss anything else. Okay, when you

1239
01:47:41.560 --> 01:47:45.199
say the UFO flaps in regards to
my grandmother, I'm not sure what you're

1240
01:47:45.199 --> 01:47:48.039
speaking of. I'm just saying there
was a lot in the news, you

1241
01:47:48.119 --> 01:47:54.439
know, during like nineteen fifty two, and oh no, we didn't follow

1242
01:47:54.479 --> 01:47:57.880
any of that. You didn't Okay, No, we didn't follow any of

1243
01:47:58.000 --> 01:48:02.199
that. We didn't. It's hard
to imagine that was an incident that happened

1244
01:48:02.239 --> 01:48:06.760
in our family and we kind of
just put it up on the shelf,

1245
01:48:08.960 --> 01:48:15.680
and you know, other than the
fact that I continued to want to validate

1246
01:48:15.760 --> 01:48:19.119
it for myself, and that's all
it was about, was to validate it

1247
01:48:19.239 --> 01:48:26.279
for myself and then later to see
if it explained why was the way I

1248
01:48:26.520 --> 01:48:30.000
was in my life was the way
it was. We didn't follow any of

1249
01:48:30.079 --> 01:48:34.880
it. In fact, when the
first time that Stanton Friedman I called me,

1250
01:48:35.479 --> 01:48:40.279
he got my number from Prince Stringfield. I didn't know who he was.

1251
01:48:41.960 --> 01:48:45.239
I had not heard of him,
and I felt bad because you could

1252
01:48:45.279 --> 01:48:47.600
tell it was hard for him to
imagine I didn't know who he was,

1253
01:48:49.159 --> 01:48:53.039
and so he sent me a couple
of these books and it's like, oh,

1254
01:48:53.199 --> 01:48:58.039
yeah, i'd seen him. I
called him the weird Professor, you

1255
01:48:58.159 --> 01:49:01.319
know. But no, we didn't
follow it. So well, Charlotte,

1256
01:49:01.319 --> 01:49:03.640
we're at the end of the show. I want to thank you so much

1257
01:49:03.760 --> 01:49:08.640
for coming on. It's it's well, you're very welcome. I appreciate the

1258
01:49:08.720 --> 01:49:13.560
opportunity to kind of sit thanks straight
sure, because I think people are owed

1259
01:49:13.640 --> 01:49:17.079
the truth and it ought to be
what it is. That's right. I

1260
01:49:17.239 --> 01:49:20.880
really appreciate it. And maybe we'll
see you out there speaking, um,

1261
01:49:21.159 --> 01:49:25.159
you know, getting the story out
more. That would be nice to see

1262
01:49:25.199 --> 01:49:29.720
that. Oh well, in regard
to that, I've been asked Alejandro who

1263
01:49:29.720 --> 01:49:33.000
has asked me to speak at the
International Youthod this year. So I nudged

1264
01:49:33.039 --> 01:49:36.840
out and it worked. You did, You did, right, Ell.

1265
01:49:38.159 --> 01:49:42.479
That's wonderful. I'll see you in
October. Is it October? Steptember?

1266
01:49:42.600 --> 01:49:45.880
September fourth through? Okay, I'll
see you then. All right, Okay,

1267
01:49:46.119 --> 01:49:48.840
thanks so looking forward to it.
You bet. You take care of

1268
01:49:48.920 --> 01:49:54.680
yourself, you too, Papa.
All right, everyone, thank you so

1269
01:49:54.840 --> 01:49:59.439
much for listening. That's it for
our show this evening. And next week

1270
01:49:59.640 --> 01:50:01.960
we have Earl Gray on. He's
a great guy. I can't wait to

1271
01:50:02.039 --> 01:50:05.279
have him on. That'll be a
lot of fun. And so I do

1272
01:50:05.399 --> 01:50:09.840
want to thank everyone, first of
all for listening to the show, and

1273
01:50:10.039 --> 01:50:12.800
second of all all the people that
support the show. I want to thank

1274
01:50:12.840 --> 01:50:16.000
you very much. And I also
want to thank the people behind the scenes

1275
01:50:16.039 --> 01:50:21.319
that help this happen. Peggy helps
out with the Facebook or Facebook page,

1276
01:50:23.039 --> 01:50:26.600
and you can like us on Facebook
because we always have new UFO stories up

1277
01:50:26.640 --> 01:50:30.079
there. All right, we'll be
back next week, and remember everyone to

1278
01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:31.680
keep your eyes to the sky.