Oh, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and
we've got another great one for you this evening, Bob Sperry. And I
got to meet him when I was in Pine Bush. What is that's going
on two years ago now, But anyway, he's a great guy and we're
gonna be talking about all sorts of things. He's been very involved in Moufon
and I'm going to actually be going to the mouf On Symposium coming up on
August twenty fourth through the twenty seventh, and that's just outside of Cincinnati,
and I hope that if you are planning to be there, you can look
me up at the conference itself. And so our blog this week is,
uh, let's see, it's a nineteen seventy UFO and humanoid report from Spain,
another really interesting one by Charles Lear and so check that out on podcast
ufo dot com. And let's see. I think we're about ready just to
jump in and get started here with my guest. Hey, Bob, welcome
to the show. How are you, Martin. I'm doing well, doing
well. I can hear you and everything, but okay, that's that's what's
important. Yeah, good to have you on board, and so I'm really
looking forward to this symposium. And this is the last one I went to
was Cherry Hill way back and lue Alsando was there. I'm trying to think
what year that was? Eight? I was Field Investigator of the Year that
year. Oh is that right? So what does it take to become the
field Investigator of the year. Well, they actually have stain not. They
have like a formula based on how many cases you do, how many unknowns
versus ifos versus hoaxes, insufficient datas And I came out on the top of
the classes having the most reliable dispositions for move on cases that year. Now,
tell me you just mentioned the word hoaxes. Would I would imagine that
the reports to move on that are hoaxes are fairly low. Do I have
that wrong? I'd say they're fairly low. Yeah, well under ten percent.
I'd say probably six percent at most. And when it's hoaxes, is
it someone just trying to be funny or are they really you know, I
mean, do they really go into it? I mean, have you had
to deal with some of these yourself? Did yea one of the case of
interest that we're going to show with the symposium is actually from an airline pilot
who claimed he was over Georgia at thirty seven thousand feet when a large chevron
passed over his plane with multi colored lights. But what a lot of these
hoaxers don't realize is that we can go into the metadata of videos and photographs
and we can actually see whether or not he was over Georgia at thirty seven
thousand feet, and in this particular case, he didn't get away with it
where he was, And it's sort of embarrassing that somebody with that much expertise
and a professional that's actually piloting a plane would perpetrate a hoax. But the
majority of hoaxes or people that just send us outlandish photographs or we have what's
called keystroke events where they just make up some sort of outlandish tale and you
can pretty much tell right away whether it's it's a hoax or not. Well,
you know, one of the things, I don't know if this happens
to you, but it happens to me quite often, and I don't I'm
not trying to say anything negative about the people that send me things. And
I also I just started this voicemail message that you can Actually it's right on
my website. If anyone wants to leave me their encounter in a voice message,
I have that on podcast ufo dot com. You'll see it under UFO
Sightings. I have a lot of really great sightings that people have reported to
me anonymously, and some you know, you know, use their name.
Some of them are airline pilots. So that's just on my website. Someone
wants to talk about that, you can check that out. So I forget
what I was talking about where I was going with it. Oh, we're
talking about the twenty eighteen symposium. Yeah, yeah, I lost my train
of thought. It's the guests that's supposed to do that, not me.
But anyway, so I might I might remember as we go along here.
But so I got distracted by the new voice message thing I have here.
But anyway, I do believe it was how people report. I think that's
that's what I was where I was going with this whole thing. When when
people have a UFO siting, generally speaking, they're they're pretty solid, but
it doesn't mean that necessarily what they see. You know, we may get
like ten percent of them that are something that need to be looked at.
You know, but I know exactly what I was going to say. I
was going to ask you, do you also get pictures sent to you that
are just as clear as can be, And people will have these circles and
there's nothing inside the circle. The UFO right here, and I am looking
and I expand the picture out as big as I can. I have a
big screen here, and I see absolutely nothing, not even at That's happened
many times. Well. People will send me their UFO photos and there's absolutely
nothing in them. Yeah, are you talking about like a white light with
a donut hole in the middle of it, or just nothing there, nothing
at all? And they have a circle that they put on the picture to
show me where they will see the UFO. Yes, I mean there's ways
that we can enhance the photo to see if there is actually something there,
and I've seen plenty of those. As a matter of fact. One of
the things that Muffon is going to be doing and probably the next year,
is releasing a gallery of drawings that people submit to us. We have over
five thousand really interesting drawings, but to find them, I had to go
through the entire case management system, all one hundred and thirty two thousand cases
looking at jpeg after jpeg after jpeg, and it's astounding how many people see
a tiny, tiny little dot in the air with a red circle around it
that they I'd say the majority of those cases, they're milar balloons or some
sort of weather balloon that they're seeing against say a bright blue sky. But
you have to really zoom in to see what they're actually looking at. Yeah,
I've seen I've seen some of those two as well. I'm just going
to pull this up for everyone to see. Who's in YouTube and Facebook,
etc. Right now? But this is uh, this is my UFO sightings
page, and there's some videos. This was one at some fireworks, but
these all open into larger stories. A lot of these just uh and and
and a number of them do have photographs in them that are pretty intriguing,
and those are all within the text itself. If you click read more,
et cetera, you'll see more information. But it is, it is,
It is amazing how many people, you know, you go into any type
of crowd. You know, for instance, I'm involved in like a guitar
strumming you know, type of thing that's where I live, where people get
together and we play guitar once a week, and it's amazing. A conversation
can start and all of a sudden, all these people have had a UFO
sighting. In this group of say twenty or thirty people, there were three
that came right over and where one guy knew that I did this show on
UFOs and he talked about it, and these people came over with quite amazing
sightings. And it just seems like everywhere you go there's a part of the
population that has had UFO sightings. Yeah. I I just did my fiftieth
grammar school reunion and we had sixty people in. About twenty people came over
to me and said, hey, Bob, we heard you're really into UFOs.
Can I tell you my UFO story? This was just my class reunion.
So I'd say that maybe you know, one tenth of the amount of
people that see UFOs actually report them. I think that there's probably millions and
millions and millions of reports that will never know about That's right. And you
know what Ryan Graves said at the hearing last you know, a week and
a half ago or a couple of weeks ago, was basically that only he
thinks only five percent of pilots. Military pilots will actually report. Ninety five
percent of them will not because they're afraid of the ridicule, which I do
I am happy to hear is going to be much less as we move forward,
hopefully the ridicule factor. Yeah, I definitely think it's it's starting to
become easier for pilots to report their sidings without facing the stigma or worrying about
being grounded and having to do a psychological review. I meet thirty years ago
that Japanese pilot near Alaska. Yes, he was great. Yeah, So
I think things are changing for the better as far as pilots go. And
we in our feel investigator ranks, we do have several commercial airline pilots and
they make excellent witnesses. That's great. And so I always asked us for
everyone that I interviewed for the first time, what sparked your interest in this
topic to begin with? Well, I had three sightings myself, pretty mundane.
The third one was pretty weird. It wasn't really a UFO, but
I'll explain it in a minute. When I was a kid, on November
ninth, nineteen sixty five, there was the great Northeastern blackout from Virginia all
the way up to Quebec City, and the next morning my uncle came running
over the house saying they believe UFOs were involved, And apparently several UFOs were
seen over the Clay power station at Niagara Falls that night seconds before the power
went out, including one private pilot and Assessna was actually looking down at the
power station and saw an orange orb just as the power went out all across
the Eastern seaboard, So that originally is what peaked my interest. I started
buying the gold Key UFO comics in the sixties, the Saga magazines in the
seventies, and in eighty six, I was camping at a remote spot in
northern New Jersey Round Valley Reservoir, two o'clock in the morning, raining heavily.
I'm sitting on the beach on an overturned canoe in a poncho, and
a friend of mine and myself we saw this orb, and at the time
I didn't know what an orb was, and it was just hanging over the
lake for about ten minutes, and then it began to do crazy maneuvers,
upside down, question marks going all of it, and then it just shot
off at the speed of light. And it wasn't until Terry Ray wrote a
book on or the arm phenomenon that I said to myself, my goodness,
somebody else knows about these things. And that was twenty thirteen. I went
to see him in I think it was Pittsburgh, because I wanted to talk
to him, and he told me all about Moufon, and that's how I
got into muff On. The second yes signing second sid was I was on
a train going from Jersey City to Newark twelve noon, bright sunny day out
and I looked out the window at a train and there was the silver sphere
pacing the train at sixty miles an hour, maybe half a mile out,
maybe half a mile high. And it was clearly a round cylindrical object keeping
pace with the train going across the New Jersey meadows. And once we hit
the Newark skyline, it just shot up and over and disappeared over the skyscrapers.
But the weirdest one was probably two twelve. I was coming back from
Quiebec in the dead of winter through the Adirondikes, where Lake Placid is very
very remote. I was the only one on the highway, very mountainous,
lots of pine trees, lots of snow, and there was a break in
the trees and there was a sheer cliff on the side of the road,
and I saw what looked like a tank with triangular wheels climbing up a sheer
cliff. It was probably the size of two two tractor trail is together,
and it was just someplace a machine like that should never have been. And
I never saw anything like it in my entire life. It was the weirdest
I did you turn, went back to see if I could catch it was
gone. But I'm telling you it was nothing that I ever could imagine being
made by humans. And it was just climbing up this cliff. It was
the strangest thing I ever saw. Wow, that is the bizarre. I
really liked the bizarre ones, though, So now I know you do.
There's a couple of questions that I'll pop up here and there, But I
know you've done a lot of work on the balls of Light yourself and historically
and all that. And last week I had Christopher bledsoe on and I got
a little bit of grief. People were saying, you know that, they
were saying not nice things to me about Chris and why did I have him
on here? Why was I exploiting him if if he you know, has
issues that type of thing. But all they had to do is to see
the videos that he's recorded and the History Channel recorded at his at his home,
and you can see these orbs of light and they're doing weird things,
you know, over him constantly. And then I had someone write me and
say they think it's more of a paranormal thing than than a UFO type thing.
And they made the point where you know that a lot of times these
orbs are inside the house or you know, in like other types of closed
quarters where a backyard and coming up to you know, right up to someone's
face and things like that, so maybe they are more the paranormal. Whatever
they are, they're unexplainable. I mean, yeah, I I've studied them
a long time and I have a tendency to believe that it's it's three or
four different phenomena. Some of it maybe bull lightning, which is just a
natural phenomenon, but some people have encountered bull lightning where when it gets close
to them, a person will react and scream and the ball lightning will shoot
away. As if it had some sort of rudimentary intelligence. Okay, there
was a guy in the fifties, Trevor Constable, who believed that they were
actually creatures living in the upper atmosphere. When people have encountered orbs, some
people have tried to surround them, and they'll always back away from people.
They'll move up if they feel trapped. So it makes me think that one
possibility is they could be some sort of life form endemic to Earth that we
just don't understand yet, because it may be plasma based, all right.
Other people have encounters where these orbs, in a sort of a paranormal way,
will actually turn into beings. In one case in South America, and
was on his deck and season two orbs come down to his deck. He
was suffering from cancer. They turn into two little people. They go this
one is sick. Heal him and suddenly his cancer disappears, and they turn
into bowls of light again and take off, and when he goes to the
doctor, his cancer is cured. So that's a second aspect of it,
And a third aspect of it is that I think in some cases these are
actual plasma in cased of structures that are possibly robotic. A good example is
the case with the FedEx airplane flying from Mexico City to Tennessee a couple of
years ago. It actually made Network TV where the object paced the plane for
thirty three minutes and when they reached the border of the United States, the
object made a right turn and shut off. And later on I was speaking
with Ted Row from NARCAP and he believes that in that particular case, it
may have been an actual craft wrapped in a plasma because plasma will absorb a
radar signal, and that maybe it was a way to avoid detection because the
pilot actually panned down from filming the object out his window to his teacast anti
collision radar and it wasn't there. So the third type of phenomenon, I
think that these plasma bulls might be might be actually craft that are disguised to
avoid radar. Wow. Wow, Well, whatever they are, I think
you're right. I think there could be multiple explanations for these things. I
mean, it just seems like that. I mean, how can anyone say,
I mean, we don't even know what's going on. I really I
think that part that you just said there a minute ago, where it's a
possibility that some type of life that we don't know about, you know,
kind of reminds me of some things that I've heard people say over the years.
And I do believe even Loue Alexandro mentioned something about something might be here
that exists here that we don't even you know, I forget exactly what he
said, but of a very high intelligence. But I don't know. I
wouldn't think that these things, if they were a life form, you know,
they see to be enough to get out of the way of something that
I don't see any other type of intelligence or hear about anything. The ones
that are the strangest of the ones that turn into actual beings, all right.
If you're familiar with Albert Rosales, he has like fourteen books of humanoid
sightings throughout history two thousand years, and they're fascinating. And he literally has
probably close to a hundred encounters in his books of orbs that turn into some
sort of beings. So there's definitely something to that phenomenon. Yes, there's
there is a story that I was told from someone that was on this show,
I think maybe seven or eight years ago, and I can't recall who
it was, but they interviewed a woman that was in her eighties. She
was perfectly okay. In other words, she was no signs of senility or
anything like that. And she said that she watched this orb in her backyard
move around and all of ad. Now this word gets really crazy. It
turned into what looked like a big foot. You know, So is that
kind of what you're talking about? You know? I mean, yes,
I don't not not I only say little humanoids or you know, tall blonde
Nordics. But there Albert definitely has several cases where these orbs turned into big
foot, and we know that many big foot as seen in conjunction with with
the UFO reports. Yep, the big foots. The orbs have turned into
big foot's. Yes, so it's not I mean, as crazy as it
sounds, other people have reported the same. I mean, if I saw
something like that, I think I'd be very nervous to actually talk about it.
Yeah, it's so hard to believe, but but so so much of
what we look into is so very hard to believe. So let's let's talk
just quickly. I want to bring up of the symposium, who the speakers
are. Yeah, and I'm really looking forward to going I'm really excited about
going. So let's see sure. Our keynote speaker is going to be David
Polides, who wrote the four eleven series of books. I've read two of
them and they're fascinating, especially the stories about the children who are found always
near some sort of you know, berry bush, and you know that they're
in impossible places where a baby would have drowned trying to get to a little
island. So I always found his his fascinating that there are definitely places like
up near Vancouver that are hot spots for these things. That we've had some
very strange cases that move on ourselves from the Vancouver Nanaimo area, all right,
So I look forward to him. He'll be our banquets speaker. We
also will have we So let's just pause here for a second on him now.
When I met him in twenty eighteen in Cherry Hill, I was next
to him in the booth, right next to him, and we talked quite
a bit that evening and I said, Hey, would you ever be on
my show and talk about UFOs? And he goes, no, No,
Now, I want you know, I'm really into this four one one and
I don't want to mix it up and you know all that. So now
he has a book with the UFO connection, and I've been trying to reach
him. I'm going to be talking to him at the event, but I've
been trying to reach him. Two. Okay, now let's talk about UFOs
finally. But right, he did he did seem to change his attitude towards
UFOs over the past couple of years. That did. That is interesting.
Yeah, yeah, so we have Abu Lobe. He'll be, uh,
he will be. I talked to him today. He will be not he
won't be there in person, but he will be there via internet. Right,
Yeah, he's gonna lie live stream that. The problem was that this
year, it just so happened that his book publisher, I believe, decided
to put his book out the same weekend that the move On Symposium was happening,
so he couldn't appear in person. But yeah, right now, he
just came back from his expedition at the ocean trying to recover pieces of that
possible meteorite that may actually be the remnants of a crashed you know, crash
debris from a UFO, and he probec a couple of very interesting specimens that
I believe they're they're analyzing now that seemed to be of a composition that would
not be possible with the human technology we have right now. Well, the
one thing I like very much about what he intends to do is he intends
to be transparent about everything, and I think that's very important. And I
think that, you know, I mean, I really I enjoy every time
I talk to him. He's a fascinating guy, and you know, he
thinks sort of like a child, the curiosity of a child, and I
mean that all in a good way. And Thiago, I had him on
the show years ago, A real nice guy. I'm looking forward to meeting
him. Yes, he's a very very very nice family man. He is
our national director of Brazil and as you know, the people of Brazil have
a great interest in UFOs ufology, So he's just he's just a giant down
there in South America. Yes, and speaking of Brazil and the Vargina case
is really interesting and it's possible. I'm going to give him a lot of
grief if he doesn't make it. But I think I'm gonna have James Fox
on next week. I do believe so. And I'm talking a little bit
about that. Michael Masters. I enjoy talking to him, hung out with
him out in Phoenix. He's a great guy. Now, for those of
you who don't know or have just watched us for the first time, he
has a theory of that these are these what we're seeing is time travelers coming
back, which I think is a really fascinating You know, it's as good
as any other idea if you got, if you ask. I also so
am a person who leans towards time travelers, and I write a lot about
what they might be coming back for. I have a number of different theories
on it myself, but I definitely like Michael Master's approach to it. I
think it's fresh, I think it's different, and I think there's a lot
of validity that it could be humans from the future, and to a crinkle
to that, I think it could be humans from the past too, but
I won't go into that anymore till I write my book. Oh yeah,
well, that's an interesting thing. Linda Zimmerman a lovely woman and I've seen
I've seen her at many events over the years and had her on the show
a number of times. She's a wonderful, wonderful speaker, I always always
enjoy hearing what she has to say and the contact humans and animals. That
one is another fascinating topic, if you ask me. I met her at
Pine Bush several years ago. Very very nice lady wouldographed my book. Yeah,
and I'm like forty five minutes from Pine Bush, so I'm in the
Hudson I'm on the edge of the Hudson Valley and there's a lot of you
know, strange things go on up here too. But yes, you're a
very very very nice person. And I think she's an important person in upology.
Yeah, and I I don't know if I've had Raymond on my show
or not. That's terrible. I've had a lot of people sometimes I actually
forget, but I don't think I've had him on my show. I don't
know if he's uh, if he has made the rounds in Radio World or
not. No, you know, he's somebody that I'm waiting to see.
I've never seen him speak, so I'm very curious to hear him in person.
So he's the one one speaker I really don't know that well, but
I know he has a lot of very interesting ideas. Yeah, and I've
heard her name for years Uh, Terry Ling. I don't even know how
to pronounce her last name, Terry Linkell. She's one of our board of
directors. She's an experiencer herself. She has very very interesting experiences in her
lifetime and I know her very well and I'm sure she's going to definitely entertain
people who listen to her when she talks about her own experiences and how it
has healed her. Yeah. And then we have Barbara Soupani. Barbara is
our Muffon Journal editor. She's John Schistler's daughter. So if oh, you
won a first hand account about UFO encounters because she has worked with her father
for decades, you're going to get a lot of the scientific side of things
if you come to listen to her speak. Wow, isn't that something?
And Mike's been on the show three or four times. I think he's a
great guy and he'll be fun to hang out with. Mike Cleveland does owls
in UFO. Contact Grant Cameron a number of He's been on the show also
a number of times, and that guy can put out some some data I
have. I have a number of Grant's books. I really think Grant is
on target too to be perfectly honest. He has some interesting thoughts, that's
for sure. And Yvonne Smith always nice to see her. So that's the
lineup, and that's going to be a really good I'm really excited to be
there coming up at the end of this month. So so let's let's talk
a little bit about some of the UFO investigations that you have done. You
mentioned that you twenty eighteen year investigator. Was it National Investigator of the Year.
Is that what it was? Yeah, we just have the Investigator of
the Years. They could be from any country, any state. So yeah,
I've had a number of ones and I've done a lot of research on
cases. One of the things that I'm blessed to be able to do is
have absolute total access to the CMS, the case management system at MUFON,
and we have one hundred and thirty two thousand cases in it. I love
old historical cases and I'm also a patterns guy, so I'm always looking for
patterns in UFO cases. And some of the ones that we're going to be
doing at the symposium in the Cases of Interest presentation are when I do this
research and we'll pick a case from twenty twenty two for example, that's very
interesting and we'll try to find correlating cases. One of the fascinating things that
of course happened this year in Februaries that after the Chinese balloon was shot down
on February third, following week, three other objects were shot down over North
America on February tenth, eleventh, and twelfth, and we've really never gotten
an answer on what they shot down, if indeed they shot down. Anything
was over the tundra in Alaska, one was over the forest in the Yukon
in Canada, and one was seventeen miles across the Canadian border into the United
States in the Lake Uron. And what's interesting about that is that the pilot
over Lake Uron needed two sidewinder missiles to take it out. He described it
as small, and he described it as an octagon. And if you saw
the arrow hearings, doctor Kirkpatrick was describing that what they're zeroing in on our
objects under five meters in length or width, which is approximately fifteen feet or
smaller the size of a Volkswagen Beetle. And we got an enormous number of
cases this year of objects that were in that size range, including this octagon
that was shot down allegedly as the pilot described over Lake Uron. So I
went in and I did some research on octagons because the CMS will allow you
to do key word searches, and what I found was absolutely fascinating and absolutely
scary and in a nutshell, one of the things I'm going to present at
the symposium is that we in the past several years have been overrun with octagon
shaped objects, and there's a particular size of an octagon, usually about sixty
feet in diameter, and we may have actually correlated at least in one case.
This to made our sightings f Enridges made our group that has the series
of probes around the United States that try to capture changes in barometric pressure and
compass mad compass swings in the electromagnetic field, suggesting something came into the atmosphere.
And apparently these octagons might be coming straight in from outer space, which
would be very, very scary and unusual. Wouldn't we have some type of
satellite that would tracks something like that, Oh, of course, But you
know, the United States government said that they gave up the search after five
days for this, which I don't believe at all, because where this object
went down over Lake Uron. It's about one hundred and forty five feet deep,
and they said they can't find it. But a submersible implodes in twelve
thousand feet of water in a search field that's the size of Connecticut, and
they find it in three days and actually retrieved the submersible tuesdays later. But
they can't find something in one hundred and forty five feet of water. I'd
say that I'm not anticipating, you know, total disclosure from the government anytime
soon. And I got in trouble for saying that last week. But that's
just my opinion. That's not the opinion of move on. Well, I
tend to agree with you. I mean, if they it seems to me
like they would really want to look and find what was unless they already somehow
knew what it was. That type of thing. This is when they retrieved
the Chinese the spy balloon. And the people that listen to the show all
the time know that I was actually right underneath it when it was shot.
I just happened to be in Myrtle Beach and looked up and there it was.
I got out of the car and the thing was shot right in front
of me. Which was really bizarre. But yeah, oh, and they
retrieved that from I think one hundred and ten feet of water in Atlantic within
a day. They knew exactly where it was, and the Chinese wanted it
back. They said, we want our balloon back. Something I don't think
anybody ever thinks about is nobody has asked for any of the three objects that
was shot down back, not Rush and not China that I ran, not
anybody. So you know who did they belong to? The other three objects,
Well, one of them, I think one of them was like a
student type of situation. I do believe, unless I have that wrong.
Did you did you hear that? Yeah? I heard that one of them
was a hobby balloonist balloon that was from a club and I think was Indiana
or Ohio. But the problem with that theory is that the object that was
shot down over Lake Urine was first spotted the day before coming from Montana.
So I don't know if the Gulf stream goes west to east, how somebody
in Indiana, Ohio could have a hobby balloon coming from Montana towards them.
So I have issues with some of those those student hobby club balloon theories.
Ah, yeah, okay, I'm just gonna pop this question up. I
mentioned this before we went on, you know, on the air. If
you knew anything about Bob, you have not heard anything about this. This
is uh. There's news out of Peru that there's some type of attacks going
on, and I actually have been talking with Ben Hansom a little bit about
that. He's supposedly says the police are actually involved in it. What it
is, I have no idea, but and speaking of that, my guest
from that had a Peru incident is coming up on September fifth, just giving
that a little plug. Jonathan Wygant will be on show on September five,
and that was a military encounter in Peru. Lots of people are very familiar
with his talk that he did about two thousand and one, somewhere around there,
maybe two thousand and three. He talked about the incident back then.
Here's a question that came up a while back, Bob, can you give
a comparative current numbers of sightings point light versus disc spheres things like that.
Well, I can tell you that over the pisted several decades, the number
of points of light has increased and the number of discs and spheres has decreased
precipitously. Also, we find a lot of triangles, But if you look
at these statistics for triangles, it has been really steady for about twenty years
now about how many triangles we get. But the number of disks is without
doubt going down. The number of sites of points of light at night is
going up. Part of that, I believe is that people all have cell
phone cameras now and when they see something at night, they're clicking on it.
Unfortunately, most of the photos we get for points of light at night
are essentially useless because they're out of focus because the camera is trying to focus
on an infinite black background, so you really cannot tell what the person is
actually trying to photograph or film in a lot of these cases. Another one,
cigars have gone down precipitously. But at the same time, people are
mistaking trains of starlink satellites for long cylindrical objects with portholes, when actually it's
just disparate points of sixty lights in the sky flying overhead. Yeah, so
what would you say, this is a I'm going to bring in a let's
see is this right? Yeah, I'm gonna bring in Stan Gordon gets a
lot of reports himself out of Pennsylvania and this just happened back in August third
and I can put this also in the show notes so people could see it.
But it was a large it's a very very good witness that did this
really nice detail drawing. And it's the typical one you know that you hear
about the silent and then the lights on the corners and a larger light in
the center. And a lot of people argue that they think those are military
and you know, secret military, and what is your opinion on that?
Well, if you're familiar with Charles Fort, and I'm sure you are,
he wrote a book back around linkedeen twenty where he had UFO reports of triangles
back in the eighteen hundreds. In the eighteen nineties, in David malo book
Estimate of the Situation about Triangles, there is a drawing from a nineteen sixty
four or nineteen sixty five newspaper article that shows exactly what you just showed me.
And probably the proof that this is a real phenomenon is the five thousand
drawings that I was just telling you about earlier. That move on is putting
together. That's going to be a drawing gallery for members sometime probably early next
year. And I can tell you there's probably three or four hundred triangle drawings
over decades that look exactly like what you just put up by Stan Gordon.
How about that? Now? The kind of the complaints that I hear about
move on. Our people will say things to me like why can't we access
the database? But it has a lot to do with anonymity, right with
the witnesses. Mostly, Yeah, there's a couple of things going on.
For example, we were getting a lot of piracy, okay, and people
were stealing our cases, so we have to keep them behind a paywall from
members only. And members can access and do searches up to fifty cases at
a time, and they can access search parameters like year, month, day,
shape, color. They just can't see the total investigation that the field
investigator will do because we have to keep the witnesses anonymous. And that's doubly
true for people who are experiencers that come to us seeking answers. The other
issue right now is we're revamping the CMS, We're moving it to a new
server, and right now we have a technical difficulty in showing certain things that
a member would see, such as the city. We can show the county.
But because of the changes we're doing, we're moving to a latitude longitude
system because a lot of times people who are witnesses when they submit in a
case, they don't know how to spell the name of the town, for
example, and we can't find it on a map. So we're going to
a drop down menu so that the cities will be spelled exactly and they can
be pinpointed to latitude and longitude on a map for another project we're doing.
So it is a temporary problem that will be fixed very shortly. But you
can't see everything that a field investor could see if you remember. But if
you're the public, you can't see anything at all at this point because Facebook
and YouTube, we're just stealing everything from us, and that hurts us when
we work with television production companies. Oh, absolutely this. Stephen has written
about this question a couple of times, and I don't know the curiosity I
have about his question here is how about the football field size red rectangle from
the UFO hearing that I believe Matt Gates was talking to Ryan Graves about it.
Now, my question about this is. Are you familiar with this being
reported? To move on? No, I just I read that about the
red rectangle. But we have a lot of rectangle reports, and some of
them are read, some of them are different colors, some of them are
yellow, and it's been going on a long time. When I was at
my class reunion, one of the people that came up to me to tell
me their story was they were on an airplane in twenty ten going to a
wedding near California and he saw it would looked like a yellow square coming towards
the plane, and it just got bigger and bigger and bigger in it.
He said, my god, this thing's going to hit us. Suddenly the
plane dove came back up, and when they landed, he went to the
pilots and said, did you see that? And they go, Sir,
if you want to follow a report, go to the FAA office at the
end of the hall. We don't want to have anything to do with it.
So I can tell you that in our files have rectangles, and we
have red rectangles, and we have yellow rectangles, and we have black rectangles,
etc. Amazing And how long once you have a siting, how long
do you have to report it, like, can you report something that was
years ago. Yes. As a matter of fact, I do a lot
of genealogy, and back in the nineties before I belonged to Mouffon, I
was looking at baptism registers from Jersey City, New Jersey, and I found
that eighteen sixty four account of a cross in the sky illuminated cross in the
sky flying over Lower Manhattan, and the woman told it to her parish priest.
He wrote it in the footnotes of the baptism register and he even drew
a picture of it and it looked like an airplane with an illuminated cockpit.
I submitted that to Moufon before I really knew what Mouffon was all about.
It ended up being the earliest report that Muffon ever had of a UFO,
and I even submitted the drawing and the baptism registered page. So yes,
we get a lot of people who wait thirty forty fifty years to report things.
And the scary thing about it is that a lot of these people who
were adults are reporting things when they were children. When I was seven years
old. This happened to me when I was ten, and I have always
thought it was a little creepy. How many reports we get of school yard
encounters, of reports from people who were children when this happened, that there's
definitely an interest in children as far as whoever is piloting these objects sort of
creepy. Yeah, no, no, it makes I mean President Dennett did
a book I think over one hundred five school yard you know sightings, and
since then, you know, he's found more. And then I had someone
from Oakland contact me and told me about his schoolyard sighting back in the nineteen
seventies that he and someone else saw. It was a gold colored object.
You know that one. Have you ever heard of someone to say he said,
it looked just like it was plated with gold. Yes, I've heard
that many times. You have. All Right, since you have is that
you're familiar with all these I'm going to tell you what I saw and see
if you've ever heard of anything like it. I had. Basically was a
perfectly shaped disc. Now as I was looking up so I couldn't see the
side of it, whether it had a dome on the top or not.
But I mean it had a light blue glow around the entire thing, like
a field or something around the whole thing. Have you ever heard of anything
like that? Yes, I have. If you go into the CMS and
do a keyword search for say blue or blue disc, you will get numerous
hits. A lot of times they believe it has something to do with the
propulsion system, all right. Sometimes when UFOs in coming or going, they
change color, or they'll have a luminosity around them. That may be some
sort of field. And if they are actually using anti gravity technology, it
would be the envelope that they're actually contained within. Unfortunately, we've never found
anti gravitons yet, so it's only a theory, but definitely, and you
can go all the way back to John Keel in the nineteen sixties, who
is the first person who tried to describe this phenomenon of some sort of blue
or orange or red of fields around or glows around these objects. And the
consensus today is that it's probably something to do with the propulsion system. How
about that luminosity is a really good word for it. That's basically what I
would what I would consider it to be. But and that's strange that they
come in different colors, you know, and all these things. You know,
I can never heard of another gold one, but you have heard gold
before. Like you said, it was very, very bright. And you
know, in some cases though it depending on the time of day. If
these people are seeing these silver spheres and the sun is going down, in
some cases it may appear golden or coppered to them when it's in actuality a
silver sphere and it's just the setting sun gives it that shade of red or
shade of gold. Now here's another question, but it's totally unspeculation, and
that is you mentioned the change and what people are seeing, you know,
the orbs of light, points of light spheres, triangles, discs, or
cigar shape. Why do you suppose that the different shapes come along. Well,
I'll tell you something me and show a Costa basically came through a conclusion
independently, and I talked to her about it a couple of years ago.
You never get orbs in March, and our joke was that maybe March is
when orbs are down for maintenance. Okay, So if say there's more than
one type of visitor coming from more than one type of place, I think
that that has a lot to do with it. Our triangles, the replacements
for cylinders, because there are certainly a number of correlations from older cylinder cases
with blue beams and white beams shooting down from them that compare to triangles with
blue beams and white beams shooting down from them. So is somebody updating their
model to the you know, two thousand and twenty three, you know flying
saucer or you know? Is it that there's lots of different visitors coming from
lots of different places. And I think either of those theories are valid,
yes, And some of us just talking about this was pretty amazing during the
nineties, the Belgium triangle wave, and I mean they all look very similar,
similar to the triangles, but they were smaller, I do believe,
right, yes, and they had blunt ends, they weren't exactly pointed.
And in our little gallery of drawings we find several different variations in triangles,
which is pretty interesting. Another interesting thing about triangles is people will either describe
them as having a flat matt finish on the bottom or they'll describe tubing and
all sorts of intricate patterns on the bottom. And so we have those different
types of triangles. There's also triangles that are thicker than other triangles when people
see the triangle moving away, Sometimes the triangles very thin. Sometimes the triangles
very thick. Okay, sometimes they have three lights in the back, sometimes
they don't. People describe triangles is having only amber lights. And in our
sketch gallery from the witnesses, we've discovered that there's an inordinate amount of triangles
that actually have pink lights. So there are many many variations in the types
of triangles that we're seeing, especially in witness sketches. That's amazing. You
really know you're a craft. I'm going to tell you a story of a
guy that I a friend of mine who's been on the Antiques Road Show for
many years, and we were sharing an office together and I told him I
did a show on UFOs, and then he told me his story which blew
my mind. That he was at college in a tower at Amherst University in
Massachusetts, and this square box came in. He said, it was like
a box and it was down about the seventeenth floor and it just was floating
there and it had lights blinking all the way around it, on all the
corners and in the center. Then it shot up into the sky and they
saw a jet fighter come toward it, and then it burst into five lights,
and then the lights made a pattern in between themselves, and then the
lights shot off and the jet went after it, but it couldn't keep up
with it. I mean, that is such a bizarre thing. Have you
ever heard of something other than Randallsham Forest. I've never heard of anything bursting
into lights, Yes, I have. Also I know about the boxes too.
Are you familiar with Katie Page for moof on Our color yea. She
has a phenomenal story from when she was a child and she was living on
a farm and there was a lot of interesting things Colorado, Colorado, and
the boxes. The black boxes kept showing up on the farm. And what
was interesting was I was going through one of the old nineteen seventies UFO magazines,
which is when Katie's occurrences happened, and I actually found a correlating case
article about another black box in the seventies, not in Colorado. I believe
it was a yours. It was fairly close by, and I ended up
sending it to her because it was such a close match to what was happening
on the farm where she was living. But we also have I wouldn't say
a lot, but I'd say we probably have maybe eight or nine black box
small black box stories in the Muffun case management system. Now how often,
I mean, I could go on just the shapes and things of what people
seeing. I could go on for a while about that. But I heard
of one recently which was one I've heard before. Barbell shaped. You get
those every once in a while, right, yes, And you know,
if I had a little more time at the symposium, I would have vated
barbells in this year. I'm actually working on an article on barbells. We
had a phenomenal case back in twenty fourteen of I believe it was twenty fourteen,
twenty fifteen. There were some hunters way way up in Ontario and they
saw this massive dumbbell shaped object. Yes, I'm familiar with that case.
Okay, that's not the only one that we found. As a matter of
fact, when I was researching the octagons, I came across the report from
the Yukon and it was actually a massive dumbbell with two octagon red octagon shaped
lights at each end of it. And it was also the size of the
object that was seen in Ontario. I'm under the impression it might have been
the same object, because again it was in a remote part of Canada.
What's really really interesting about that case is that fifteen miles away in twenty sixteen,
we had a report from a place called has Lake where a guy filming
auto autumn foliage with his drone in the middle of absolutely nowhere in the Canadian
far it was accosted by an object coming out of the trees that seemed to
be small and disc shape, again smaller than a Volkswagen beetle. Where where
was this? Where did this take place? A Hoss Lake? It was
Saskatchew. It was like thirty miles west of Saskatchewan in a place called Hass
Lake. And the dumbbell shaped object was only fifteen miles from this small disc
that accosted the drone and the disk when it came out of the farest and
passed the drone as if looking to see what it was and surveiling it.
We took the video apart, frame by frame and the thing was going mark
seven five thousand miles per hour. So fifteen miles away from that we have
a massive dumbbell object. And it seems to be that they liked the Canadian
wilderness to far north because there's probably a lot of cover for a very large
dumbbell object. All right, I would like to talk a little longer right
now. I want to say goodbye to everyone know or at KGr A Radio.
Hopefully we'll be back with James Fox next week. He is very busy,
so he couldn't commit to me by the time the show started, but
I'll have another guest of it's not James Fox, but thank you everyone over
at KGr A Radio. I'd like to continue on this conversation because can you
describe a little bit Just a minute ago you talked about something coming out of
the trees, and I'd like to hear a little more detail about that,
because I have been contacted by an ex military person that has a ranch in
New Mexico that described almost identical what you were talking about. Yes, we
call them fast movers, and they're pretty small. They're smaller than in some
cases of car engine. One of the cases of interest is we had one
over the Atlantic Ocean this past summer something June fifth, I believe it was
twenty two. Plane was coming from Rhode Island to make it an approach to
Philadelphia International airport over the Atlantic, incidentally, twenty miles out from McGuire Air
Force Base, which is a UFO hotbed over the decades, and it almost
collided with him, and he said, had it collided with us, even
a glancing blow, it would have been catastrophic. Okay. The object that
I described to you in the video from hass Lake three months later in I
believe it's Almere, South Carolina or North Carolina. You might know because that's
the jury. I can't think of the name of accomplicans with a small town.
Somebody Else's drone three months later filmed the exact same object that was filmed
over hass Lake, smaller than a Volkswagen Beetle flying it approximately mocked seven.
If you go on YouTube, there are actually more videos are right from the
Netherlands, from Wisconsin, from upstate New York of the same small objects that
are traveling so fast that you have to slow down the videos to see them.
And they're all the size of car engine blocks that the size of small
Volkswagen beetles. Crazy stuff. Now, what about out of the trees?
You said this came something. Yeah, if the video is it's a very
short clip. It's only like twelve seconds long. But it either was coming
along the tops of the trees and came up to meet this drone that was
taking photographs of the autumn foliage, or it shot right out of the trees.
If it shot out of the trees, that would suggest that was going
from zero to five thousand miles per hour in a quarter of a mile.
That would be insane, all right. The other possibilities that it was flying
along low over the treetops, saw the drone and came up and five feet
of it to surveil it to see if it was if it posed some sort
of threat to it. So there's a lot of stuff going on in the
wilderness of Upper Canada, I can tell you that for sure. Well,
this particular story, I think it's fascinating. I'm trying to get him and
his military body that was visiting him on this ranch. They're walking the dogs
late at night. I was about two in the morning or something like that,
out under the moonlight, and they came up onto this tree on a
ridge and they felt like a presence. I saw something in the tree.
They thought they saw eyes or something, and then these things came out of
the trees and then they came at him and stopped and then shot off,
and it just it wasn't like any type of animal, a bird or something.
It's really bizarre stuff. And I love the bizarre ones. Those are
my favorites. Now, there was a woman that talked about a barbell experience,
I believe Michael A. Shrat I was talking about it, where there
was a barbell and hovering above her and she saw what looked like a muffler
shop, all these things hanging inside of a door. Did you ever hear
about that one? That one's a bit no, but it sounds it sounds
similar to what I was talking about before with the triangles that there are some
triangles that seem to have tubular structures on the very complicated tubular structures. And
also the I believe the object that was shut down over allegedly shut down over
Lake Uron had some sort of strings hanging down from it. And there's also
people who have filmed with look like jellyfish objects that seemed to have appendages hanging
down. I know somebody in the in the chat mentioned that earlier. So
what are these things hanging down off these objects? Is interesting antennae or is
it alive or what I know, well, uh yeah, the jellyfish type
type thing. And you know, people have actually people who have talked about
you know, experiences have talked about that they felt like the craft was organic
and alive, you know. I remember Denise Stoner actually talked about a situation
like that from Florida. And but but a lot of people have talked about
the possibility of things being alive and activated through you know, like a mind
thing, which is really something to think about. What now, tell me
if you would some of the we're talking about all these different types of UFOs,
which I love that topic. That's why I'm continuing on a little bit
longer than normal. But what are some of the ones that are one offs,
ones you've heard like you've never heard of, another one like it,
another another one that I've only seen one of a kind that off the top
of my head, that would be difficult to answer. There there's a very
very rare one that's that's almost like a half dumbbell, all right. It's
a very large knob on the front and then like a tubular structure behind it.
And I've only seen like three of these, but they're also very large,
like the dumbbells. There's a very famous appro Journal picture drawing of one,
and it has multiple lights or portholes in the front of it. And
this was from Alabama in the nineteen sixties or seventies. And we actually have
two drawings in our database that match that appro Alabama citing sixty years ago,
almost to a tape. But I've only seen three uh drawings of this half
dumbbell shaped object, so that that's a bizarre one. Now, how much
overlap is here with new for Peter Davenport, Well, that's an interesting question.
There's really none that The issue with Peter is that he's pretty much a
two man operation and they just collect UFO reports. But fran Ridge acted as
a mediator and when he was working with his Made Our project, he convinced
Muffon and Newfork to join something called Project Match. Whereas if fran comes across
a very very interesting new Fork case that deserves to be investigated, it shouldn't
go to the dustbin of history, he forwards it to Moufon and Moufon decides
to investigate it. Newfork will give Mufon the witness information and we will investigate
on behalf of Nightcap and Newfork. That's called Project Match and that's a three
way deal between UFON, Nightcap and Newfork. Now you mentioned earlier in the
historic cases that someone will report, you know, going way back, like
for instance, that cross that was lit up in this in the sky,
that type of thing as being like the first type of report. When someone
is going back and thinking about their UFO sighting, they're not able to get
most people would not be able to get the date, sometimes not even the
year. So how do you handle reports that come in like that. Well,
they're interesting and I take a special interest in them because I like the
research. So, for example, in the nineteen thirties, there was a
series of glass globe UFOs were in an old man with a beard in a
red suit was in some sort of glass globe just he was seen observing an
outdoor play Like that's a clause or something you're talking about, No, like
he was in the uniform. And then several years later, Yeah, I
missed jokes a lot. Several years later, the same fellow was seen again,
all right, in another part of the world. And this phenomenon went
on all the way up until the famous Canary Islands sighting. All Right,
and the way we figured that out is because if one report triggers your memory,
and you can go to say, Albert Rosales's books again, or Passport
to Magonia and find older correlating cases, or even in Peter Devenport's new Fork
database. I actually have the entire CUFOS spreadsheet of two hundred thousand cases.
There's plenty of places you can go to find carrelating cases, and that's pretty
much the only way you can investigate if something from nineteen sixty three might have
been an ongoing phenomenon back then, you could go to the Nightcap chronology on
Franridge's website. And that's the way I do it with historical cases. I
will look at all the other databases to see if there were other similar acreances
in that time frame of history, and and pretty much I almost always get
a hit. How about that? Now? My Charles Leeer, who does
my blogs for me. He also wrote the book The Flying Saucer Investigators.
H He does a lot of research and he's always you know, the case
I mentioned today was a nineteen seventy case in Spain. He's always digging in
to do research for the blogs that he does for my website and then very
much appreciate his great work. Would someone like him have more access if they
joined I'm not sure if he's a member of move on, but would he
have more access to historic cases? Or where? Do you You just mentioned
a website you looked at? What was that webit? Oh? Sure,
well, I'll tell you that. It's like I pretty much I'm crazy this
way. I've pretty much looked at all one hundred and thirty two thousand cases,
all right, and there's there's a significant amount of cases in nineteen forty
seven and Roswell, I mean, there's a lot of cases that are before
nineteen forty seven. But here's the thing, mufons. Moufon's a great place
to go, all right, because we have one hundred and thirty two thousand
cases. Peter Davenport his database has one hundred and seventy thousand cases, all
right. The Nightcap chronology has six thousand cases, a lot of them are
military cases. And Kufos. If you go to the Kufos website, you
can actually purchase a disc that has their chronology. It will give you the
daytime, source, place and a short description. And they've got over two
hundred thousand entries, and it used to cost like sixty bucks for the disc.
I don't know how much it costs now. But if you take the
two hundred thousand Kufos cases, the six thousand Nightcap cases, the one hundred
and seventy thousand new cases, the one hundred and thirty two thousand Moufon cases,
throw in Jacques Ballet, Albert Zalez and all of those guys, you
have an endless and endless amount of material to draw correlations and conclusions from.
I wonder if there's a way to figure out how many recorded UFO reports there
have been over all the years. It must be in the millions. It's
all for sure. I mean UFO reports go back to five thousand years.
I mean that you know Tutmost to third. Everyone's familiar with the fire rings
that came over you know, Cairo wherever he was three thousand, five hundred
years ago. But that wasn't the only thing that happened with Tutmost three thousand,
five years, five hundred years ago. He was in a battle against
a rebel army, and he was a great general. He was the most
successful pharaoh of them all militarily. When battles without ever losing one. But
in one case, an orb came down from the sky and decimated the army,
the posing army on the field without touching Tutmos's army. The same thing
happened with the Romans and the Pontian Empire, which is modern day Turkey.
Romans were getting their butts kicked, all right. This object comes down between
both armies, they both panic, run away. Rome regroups goes on to
route the Panthians, and that's the reason why the Romans made it down into
Israel. Had this object not come down and spook both armies allowed Rome to
regroup, Romans may have never made it into Palaceline or Israel. And you
know what we know today about Christianity may never have happened. So that's why
I agree with Masters on a lot of stuff. I definitely think there's been
influence all through history, including of UFOs interfering with military battles. How about
that, now, the thing you just mentioned there, that whole encounter,
I would imagine that back then everything was explained through you know, God or
something like that, or uh you know, I mean, did they try
to explain these things in journals of how what they thought like God was on
their side or something. No, because I mean the records are so scant
from back then. Yeah. But the thing that's interesting is the the battle
that the White orb came down and decimated the rebel army that was fighting against
Tutmost that has been preserved in a stone called the Gebel Barkles Stella. Stella
is a stone that's carved and tells a story. So the entire encounter is
called the Miracle of the Star, and that's documented, that's in a museum.
There's no way around saying that that's a hoax or a mis misidentification three
thousand, five hundred years ago, right, I know there is one.
I'm trying to think who it was, Alexander the Great? Uh, And
that that can only be chased back to nineteen fifty three in a book.
That's right. Yeah, that's rights flying to us as serious business. There's
no prior there's no prior record of that account prior to that book. Frank
Edwards. Yeah, So that's that's something to keep in mind when you hear
things you know out there, I mean, they get repeated and then they
become our truth in a type of way. A lot of times here's a
question that came in here. Does move On have a budget for investigations.
We're big in name, but we're small in h we're small in budget.
Uh No, pretty much. We depend on investigators in a certain area to
actually have their own equipment and go out to the field. And you don't
always go out there. If a lot of times you're just we investigate UFO
reports, not UFOs because by the time we get the reports, sometimes weeks,
sometimes decades have passed, so you can only you can only go out
and you know, look for radiation if you get the report and the next
day you can get out there. So a lot of times there's no way
we can actually go out in the field and investigate something because a lot of
time has passed. So mouf On doesn't really have a budget for that.
The only time we really we survive on memberships and people becoming field investigators and
the symposium. But big in name, we're not big. We're not like
a big corporation. It has a huge amount of money to go give out
the people all over the country to do investigations. Now. Now, one
question that a number of people have asked me over the years, does the
government have access to move On files. Pretty much all the government has to
do is purchase a six dollars a month Movefund membership and they get member access
to the CMS. So and if the government really, you know, is
it's set on getting anybody's information, you know, I'm sure the CIA could
suck it out without us ever even knowing exactly. Yeah, So this question
I do believe you've more or less talked about. Do you plan on combining
databases of old cases with those of nyecap et cetera to make one large shared
casebook. Now. I know David Marl is doing some great work on some
archives and a lot of that's going to be digitized at some point. And
is that the goal of all these collections that you're aware of. Yeah,
here's the thing. Moufon and and David Mauller and KUFOS and New Fork and
everybody else. We're grassroots organizations. We try to present the public face.
We try to give as much information as we can to the public. We
try to be transparent. We're in competition now because now there's there's corporations are
getting involved and the government is suddenly interested. Even though you know, we've
been Tinfoil had conspiracists for eighty years, so we have more competition. The
problem with combining databases is that the system that MUFON uses is absolutely totally different
than the system that Peter Davenport uses, all right, So you cannot logically
integrate all of these these databases without spending an awful lot of money. So
what we've been reaching out at Moufon to do is we have something called the
Project Aquarius Virtual Library. Phase one is going to be the release of about
nine thousand historic paper MUFON reports prior to our computerized system. Second room is
probably going to be our sketch drawings from witnesses. The third stage is going
to be a very complex, multi leveled map and it's going to have the
CMS as the top rung. It's going to have the Nightcap chronology. We've
already made an agreement with fran Ridge to take his cases and put them into
a map. Another level, we've reached out to Newfork. They're not with
us yet, but I'm hopeful of AFU in Sweden is working on giving us
the Norwegian and Swedish databases. So while we can't technically integrate all of these
different databases. We can make them all into a multi level map so that
you can go from the Moufon level to the Nightcap level to the Swedish level,
and you can do comparisons, and we will have search fields that will
allow you to look at information on different levels of the map. It's going
to be fascinating when it's done. But that's the only way we're going to
actually be able to integrate anybody's database that wishes to join Moufon and help us
create this map. That's great. I mean, the more technology we get,
the better we can have all this information available. And people like visuals,
which is why I'm outing on the map. And what do you think?
What is your opinion of Since I have you and we're about rated to
wrap up here in a few minutes, but what is your opinion of David
Grush's claims of the possibility of the crashed Now I'm asking you for a speculative
you know, answer, this is just speculation. But yeah, what are
your thoughts when you when you hear that whole thing. Clearly the guy knows
something, all right. I'm one of those people that say, you know,
show me, show me the money, all right, because uh,
you know, I've been hearing that that we've had crift debris and that alien
bodies since I'm a kid, all right, So but what's different this time
is that he said it under oath. And I would tend to believe that
if you're going to go in front of Congress and say, you know,
I know, and I'll talk to you guys in the skiff and I'll give
you the hostile and the friendly witnesses who know for sure, you know,
I'd have to say, yes, the guy's probably onto something. But at
the same time, I wonder what the government really allowed this guy to go,
you know, and just Spilippines without with their permission. I don't know.
I tend to like the two pilots Favor and what's his name, Graves
Graves Graves Graves because there's there's radar imagery to back it up. I like
hard evidence. But Groce Shirley knows something and maybe you know, Congress now
knows more than we the public know. But definitely things are going our way,
that's for sure. You know, when I first heard the idea of
you know, crashed alien craft, you know, I was like, oh
no, like that's going way too far for someone to talk about, you
know, like that in this in the position he was in. But you
know, I mean, I'm I'm going to remain open minded to it because
if anything else, some people may come forward that actually talk to him to
begin with. It really depends on how he's treated, how people feel as
though he's treated, for those firsthand witnesses, whether they feel comfortable or not
actually talking about it. So we'll we'll just see if that it all comes
to fruition, you know, open minded, but a little bit on the
skeptical side. I would I'm in your camp. Yeah, It's like,
I'm hopeful, all right, but I'm an evidence space nuts and bold Skys,
so you know, I'm just cautiously optimistic at this point. Yeah.
Yeah, But it's definitely caused a lot of attention to this topic. And
you know, there's like a hundred UFO shows starting a week on YouTube.
It's like there's you can go on YouTube now and there's like hundreds and hundreds
of people doing shows on UFO, you know, more and more every week.
So so that being said, I want to thank everyone that listens to
this show and people that have been with me all along here. I really
appreciate it, Bob. I'm looking forward to seeing you out in Cincinnati me
too. I can't wait to see you. Thank you so much for having
me today. I really appreciate it. It was my pleasure, and I
really enjoyed talking about the different crafts. That's really kind of exciting to hear
these different things. Okay, all right, excellent, We'll see you in
a few weeks, all right, take care, all right everyone, so
I will be back next week, hopefully with James Fox, if not with
someone else. And remember everyone to keep your eyes to the sky and you're
lines open but not too wide. Every long