What is crack a lacin fellow Thermo nuclear a efforts. I am Dana Valley
coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. It
is the first of our two part in Sharpie twenty twenty four NBA Awards podcast.
We're gonna do the actual awards and then we will get into on a
separate podcast. We'll have all Defense, All Rookie, All NBA, and
then we'll probably go through I don't know if we'll split that up. We'll
go through our win total over unders see what we missed on which team's exceeded
expectations. But we're dealing with the eight year end awards that matter most unless
you don't care about clutch Player of the Year, Executive the Year, and
Coach of the Year that I want to say, Coach of the Year is
a big one. So if you don't care about clutch Player, Executive of
the Year, there's six awards that you should care about before we get to
Oh and also an exciting element we did if you remember of our discord or
follow us on Twitter or on YouTube, we have our listeners. They picked
their own ballots, their own winners, and so we will have those results
at the end of each category that we have after Grant and I reveal our
picks. All of our ballots are going five players deep. We'll get into
I'm sure other names they only go three players deep. I think for every
award except MVP, officially they go three players deep. MVP goes. We
have five players deep because as a visual aid on YouTube, that just worked
out better for the setup that I concocted. First and foremost, though,
Grant, how the heck are you? I'm doing terrific and I should I'll
all take this one. The reason we're not doing all NBA and all defense
and all rookie is because I did not prepare for it, and that's my
fault. So I feel I'm feeling chagrined. That's how I'm feeling right now.
You should never feel chagrined. And it just means that we have content
planned for the following week that'll be fun. These I will say, there's
probably like a couple of things of mine because we're recording this about a week
before the end of the regular season, some stuff could change, but like
for the most part, these are just in sharpie and We did record a
pretty extensive podcast on our criteria previously, like a month or two ago,
so we will try. We're gonna try and keep this pace because we've laid
out our base cases and by now, like you know, when you get
to Rookie of the Year MVP, like you kind of understand what the deal
is there. So that's not to say this won't be nuancedter fun, because
we always do make it. But just as a just as a head's up
there, I'm gonna let you I might need a minute to throw it up
on screen, but I'm gonna let you go choose where where we go.
You did have us start off with, interestingly enough, last time, the
MVP race first, So is that Are you gonna do that again? I
think we go with the big one first. I think we do it again.
Let's go MVP. Uh all right? I mean that's also I mean,
if we're being honest, that is like kind of one of the easier
ones. But let me let me throw that bad boy up ONNCH. Look
at that not anty at all, but I love it. So how do
you want to do that? Do you want to? So I'm starting We're
starting with the big award. I think we just go start from one right
like and just move down because that's how the discussion is gonna flow anyway.
So there's well, so I think even in certain instances, this being this
being one of them, by the way, like you can kind of just
talk about like if there's just names in blocks that are going to appear that
I have, there's a is there a very clear top four to you when
it comes to the to the MVP race or no, like beyond clear.
It's just it's I don't think you can put a fifth person in there in
any kind of serious way, and really like there's, well, there're the
guy in first I think is in a tier by himself, and then you
could probably put the next three together. But but for sure there's four real
MVP caliber candidates, and then after that it's just kind of we're going to
pick a fifth guy. But fifth through like ninth or tenth, I think
is almost like you can't really argue about it. So let's let's do this.
You reveal your top four, I'll reveal my top four, and then
we'll get into the nuances there in that order. Okay, perfect, My
top four are Nicole Jokic, Sga, Jannis and Luca. That is,
uh, those are those are the same four locks that I have. My
order differs though in the sense that so our top two are the exact same,
but I have Luca three and Yannis fourth. I think there's been some
slippage from Yannis defensively lately, and just Luca has been a man alive on
the offensive end. J to me, though, let's start at the top
here in a race that I think I wouldn't fault you at this point if
you made the case for Luca or Sga, but in a race that should
be closer, he just feels like the pick to me, yeah, I
think. So what it comes down to for me just a couple things like
there are advanced catchalls that have SGA as more valuable. Still some the stuff
I pulled up pulled together. You know, it's a couple of days old.
But just as an example like it dunks and threes estimated wins, which
is a cumulative stat has Sga ahead of Jokic, and in fact, Luca
and Yannis are ahead of Yokic by that metric. So I don't know how
much stock you put in that for that reason, you know in EPM,
which is more of a rate stat also from Dunkstan threes, SGA is ahead
of Jokic again, you know, but then it just pick a different one
like vorp and estimated raptor. Yokic is first to me, like whatever,
The two things that comes down to are one. I do think the massive
net rating swing that Jokic has, which does account for like how bad Denver
is without him. Uh, It's it's persuasive to me because it indicates value
to that specific team. SGA, you know, again in on an individual
stats based case, like is for sure in the conversation, I guess you
could pick him depending on what you value, but the value to his team
is just greater for Jokic. And then like then it gets fuzzier and it's
just like, well, Jokic has a level of control over the game that
no other human being has, Like there's no solve for him where there might
be for Sga. It's just like it's just like he's a different it's a
different category, I think. So like, I still it's comfortably Jokic for
me, even though I acknowledge there are some statistical arguments that favor SGA and
and to be honest, like a couple of the other guys further down the
ballot, I guess I struggle with when you go with SGA to say that
the value he brings defensively exceeds the gap that still exists between him and Nicole
Jokic on offense. As a score, SGA might have him beat, Like
Nicole Jokic is a hell of a scorer himself. I said this on our
last podcast. I won't beliebor it, but like, there's no better optimizer
of the talent around him in the league than Nikolejokic. And you mentioned the
net rating swing. Here's why that's especially persuasive to me. We're not talking
about a team that's not so even in previous years, which that again,
it's a fair case to make it. It propped up Yokic's I think,
was that his first MVP or maybe a second whatever, This is the title
favorite or no worse than the second most likely team to win a title.
And he has the largest just net ratings swing in the league among players that
actually play. So we're not talking about the difference between a really crappy team
becoming good. We're talking about him elevating the Nuggets into a tier where only
one other team in the league exists right now. And so to me,
like that is just if you want the case to stop there, that's fine.
But I'm with you on the level of control of he exerts over a
game, and there's just the way he thinks it. There's just there's You've
said it, there's no solid for him. Yeah, and then I guess
so would you would you put Sga like number two with the bullet and then
maybe Luca and Janis are are a tier below. We're not necessarily tiering,
but I kind of view those three. You know, you could put those
three in any order, and I wouldn't. I would really fight you too
hard on it. I think I'm with you there, But I will just
note like when you say, and I'm not a fan necessarily of this discussion,
because it's like it's kind of saying the best two way player in the
league is who, And it's like, well, what are we really saying
here? It felt like a way to just give Kawhi Leonard at one point
his flowers when Lebron was the best player in the league. Yeah. So,
but Shay has a case as the best two way player. It's it's
him, There's Giannis. Who else is part of that? Like Kawhi?
I mean you would put Kawi there. I mean I think I probably had
Kawhi fifth the last time we did this. I and like, honestly,
I could put him there again. You want to give our fifth guy just
because or you want to stick with these four for a wh who's your fifth
guy? Like I have Tatum, And like even saying that, I feel
like I'm acknowledging. I'm just like best player, best team. I'm best
player, best teaming this thing. But I think like you could definitely talk
me into Kawhi. That gets harder with how shitty the Clippers have been for
like the better part of the last like I don't know month plus, you
could talk me into Like you could put KD there. I guess there was
a minute where Haliburton was there before the hymn. Seemed like it felt like
the top five was sewn up at one point, but no, I went
with Tatum. I just you know, he's in that chunk of like the
next five to seven players and just the success of his team. He's had
a good year. I don't know if it's his best year, but I
don't know. I didn't really think too hard about it because like, this
is such a top four thing, So I think that's a very I think
that's a very reasonable case. There are three players to me that I think
should be in a conversation for top five. There's Tatum, there is Kawhi
Leonard, and then there's the player who I picked. Would you care to
venture a guess as to who that player is. I'm not gonna. I'm
not gonna bullshit you. I'm looking at the sheet that has your player on
it. So it's j Jalen Brunson. There is he has so like this
is like and this shit matters when you look at the level of the difficulty
on what he's had to do with the Knicks this year because of injuries or
just in general, because they're often still whether you have Julius Randall, even
if you have og Ananobi or when you had a manual quickly and RJ.
Barrett, like it is so dependent on him. There are seventy plus players
who've played at least two thousand minutes this year. Only Bam DeRozan, KD
Brandon, Ingram and Nicole Jokic, by the way, that's hysterical that Jokic
is there post lower shot qualities. And then there are there are over four
hundred players who've appeared in at least twenty five games this season. Only five
match the share of Brunson's made buckets that go unassisted from both outside and inside
the arc, Luca Shay, James Harden, Damian Lillard and fred Van Fleet.
That was actually a surprise to see FEV pop up there. And the
fact that Jallen Brunson is just averaging twenty eight six and a half unreasonable efficiency
is wild. Turnover eight is still elite. This is the thing that really
swung it for me. When he's on the court, the Knicks offense is
in the ninety third percentile. When he's off they're in the fourteenth percentile.
That drop, that drop is matched by only one player in the league,
and it's Jokic. I'm not saying Jalen brunts is the second best offensive player
in the league. And when you get into all NBA, I think it's
a different discussion because MVP is more about value and impact, where I think
with All NBA you can look at like more individual just stuff Whereas this is
the way I frage about Tatum has a stronger case than Jalen Brunson for First
Team All NBA. I think Jalen Brunton has the stronger MVP case. And
that's just why I'm putting here. And if you're gonna say, oh,
so you're penalizing Jason Tatum because his team was healthier, he has a better
supporting cast, I'm not penalizing him. I'm giving Jalen Brunson a nod for
uplifting what would be an offensive atrocity without him into an elite offense statistically,
even when it doesn't look pretty with him on the court. And I would
argue I would need to see the date on this. I bet you there
there might be three or four players who have seen more double teams than him
this season. Right No, you said uplift. The thought that came to
mind when you mentioned Brunson and the context of his team is like he has,
I would be hard pressed to find someone that has a heavier lift night
to night than he does, just because of the talent surrounding him, because
of the way the Knicks play, and like I mean, there are definitely
if you care about the numbers, like he's right there between like Lebron and
Durant and just just like a decimal behind Kawhi in estimated wins, Like he's
way up there in EPM, he's way up there an estimated raptors. So
like it's not even just independent independent of his contextual value to the Knicks,
And look, this is MVP, there's value there. So like his situation
does matter, I think more to your point here than it does in all
NBA, Like he's got the statistical case next to the like where is this
team without him? Case? So I think that's a totally defensible pick there.
Uh are you ready to see what our audience chose? I am excited.
I hope the top four are there. That's all I care about.
Yeah, so Jokic the hard one knock listeners. Audience followers chose Jokic for
one, SGA two, Luca three, Tatum four, and Yannis five.
Tatum at four surprises me even though I did put I put him at five,
but uh, Kawhi Leonard also received some votes. I think there were
some votes for Kevin Durant as well. Jokic was the overwhelming winner here.
It wasn't even close. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean,
like, what was the last straw pole? I think he had like eighty
five of one hundred first place votes among polled voters. That's I mean,
that's just I think I think he's gonna win it running away, which is
like it's too bad for Sga and Luca and Yannis, like wrong, wrong,
wrong stretch of years to have awesome seasons. Okay, cool, all
right, Well, least we got the top two at least in lockstep.
Which award do you want to go to? Now, let's do Defensive Player
of the Year. Well, you're really just knocking out all the I like
to top load it. You know, you lose what what's the statistic?
You lose a huge percentage of listeners and want viewers after the top. So
let's just give the people what they Let's give the people what I want.
How about that I want? Yeah, take it, take it. So
let's do the same thing again. Do you want to? Well, I
think I think we both can just reveal our first one. We both have
the same number one guy, which is Rudy Gobert, and I don't I'm
just trying to think of like can you come up with a case for someone
other than Rudy Gobert. I think you're stretching really hard. You got to
kind of want to not give it to him, So, like, let
me ask you a question. As I was putting this together, it encouraged
me, Like, is it fair to say that for Defensive Player of the
Year your team to win it, your team almost has to be a top
five defense, Like it just because if you're that good, you know,
that's that's the level you've got to be at to win Defensive Player of the
Year. Is like you alone are you know, think of Gobar in Utah
for all those years, Like you are the reason that this defense is as
great as is as good as it is, and like that level has to
be super high? Is that fair or the I mean they're generally speaking right,
So like I think that's how you some of these further down ballot guys,
how you justify moving them out. But that's just what makes Gobert's case
he is. He is not the sole reason, but to me is clearly
the biggest reason the Timberwolves have all year been like far and away the best
defense in the league. All the room protection numbers, are absurd, Like
forty eight percent field goals allowed inside six feet. That's the best of anybody
that defends any number of shots, ninety eight percentile knocking down opponent rim frequency
when he's on the floor, Like opponents shoot forty three percent against him anywhere
on the floor, which is absurd. He can defend out on the floor.
Yeah, the way he's been that that was like a big not a
swing factor. But I think a big part of this is just like he's
not just someone who operates in this base defense, like he has come out
and recavoc in those situations as well. So did you I mean this wasn't
I tried to really, I wanted to make it seemed too obvious, so
I did a bunch of research and wanted to make sure that it's clearly Gobert.
I just think it's like it's it's it's as clear to me as MVP,
maybe clearer. Were you as confident in your choice your second, your
runner up? Excuse me, no, I was not. My number two
is Victor women Yama, And I'll just say my number three was bam.
I I could flip flop this like over the next week if I thought about
it more. But Wemby just you know, he's got the advanced metrics case.
He's like sixth. Last time I looked in defensive estimated plus minus allows
fifty three percent inside six feet on eight field goals. Defense that allows forty
five percent all over the floor actually takes a bunch of charges. He's drawn
nine charges, which is the most of any of these big guys we're gonna
consider. And just like the disruption, the ridiculous block totals, I mean,
like in terms of like the the eye test, like I mean,
I don't know what else you gotta say. Yeah, there's like so I
have Wemby on my ballot, but he comes in at fourth. So I
will show you my I have at a bio number two, Anthony Davis number
three, and then Wemby number four. The Wemby stuff is just like it
goes beyond. I mean, he leads the league in stocks and then blocks
per game like by a comically large margin, so that that stuff is great.
But there's like a real IQ there where he can show restraint and patience.
But then he's also just terrifying, and he he really just butchers the
entire He butchers the existence of entire offenses just by virtue of being on the
floor. Yeah, and that's the guys that don't attempt layups like on breakaways
because they know he's behind them, Like that's nobody else does that. He
fucks up their entire process just by virtue of existing. And so I like
he And by the way, it's not you know, everyone can look at
well, look at where the spurs are Defensively, they're in the bottom ten
points a lot. They're in like the eightieth percent tile with Wemby on the
floor. And so I think it's perfectly reasonable to have him. I think
there's a lot of debates after go bear. For me, it's pretty open
ended. Bam adebio. I feel like over the years, I've gotten more
appreciative of the players that are juggling so many different things. And Cooper moorehead
over at heat dot Com wrote about all the different coverages that Bam has had
to handle this year, whether it's zone, whether it's drop, the stuff
that he's doing, like he's not switching nearly as much, like that was
always something a hallmark of his. Now he's playing in drops so much.
Now he's mastered, you know, his rid protection numbers aren't great, but
he's played a lot better statistically in drop and when you watch the heat,
what can make their defense so elite or so Stingy's just bam. He doesn't
really have any weak points anymore and he covers up for just so much that
I appreciate that. And then it's the same thing with Davis to where I
think Wenby's physical and even like IQ gifts, they help him be so impactful.
But Davis is like the stuff he does where he has to be all
over the floor. It's not because of his physical tools that he's able to
be in all these places at once. It's because he will excuse me,
it is because of his physical tools, which is like he has to move
around more and cover up for more than Wemby does. And that's when you
look at their kind of defensive supporting cast, they might be comparable. Or
I think you could argue, like, is the second best defender on the
Spurs better than the second best defender on the Lakers, And the answer could
be could be yes, they're The Lakers are in the seventi fifth percentile of
pointslat per possession with Anthony Davis on the court, and I think just the
breadth of the assignments that he that he covers, and then you're looking at
just someone who has played more minutes this season in total, that really matters
to me. And so I know that the Lakers defense is tapered off a
little bit. Nan Davis has these weird on off splits, but I just
I look at him and what he's able to do, and when you watch
him, it's just similar to Bam for me, where it feels like he
has to adjust or account for so many different things, where a lot of
the times Wenby's doing the same but not doing the same maybe important because the
stakes are lower, or just because he's so gargantuan and long that it just
it feels different. So I'm not trying to penalize him there again, I
think he's a perfectly reasonable selection at number two. But looking at at a
Bio and Davis and the workload that they shoulder and their ability to cover up
for so much, to handle so much, to try all these different coverages
or have to do all these different coverages, and then just combine that with
their general uplifting, That's what kind of brought it home for them for me,
So I really struggled with Auto Bio and Wimby, like I think I'm
gonna leave it how it is. But Auto Bio at two is totally justifiable,
and I just want to say, like to him, the knack you
here is, well, he's not a rim protector on the level of these
other guys in this in this class, And I think what's born out in
the numbers is that he just does it in a different way by being the
best point of attack defensive center in the league and that we've seen in a
really long time, Like as a switch defender, there is not a matchup
that you know he cannot handle. So like he deters riom pressure by just
cutting it off like out on the perimeter. So and again, like opponents
shoot like four percent less often at the room when he's in the game,
which is like right there with you know, so you know it's that's a
better number than Webbin Yama for example, puts up in terms of like percentage
of shots of the rim deterred basically Go Bears on his own level, it's
like a five percent decline. But to just Auto Bio, like I I'm
not persuaded by the knock that you hear the most, which is like he's
not a shot blocker. He's not like the towering guy. He just does
it different differently. And for Davis, I have Davis fourth on my ballot.
Some of the on off stuff is is like a little it gives you
pause because the Lakers are more of like a midpac defense. Uh, the
on off stuff says they're not that much better with him. You got it
again, this is where you always got to go to. Opponents shoot like
five percent better from three when he's on the floor, and that's just skewing
all the numbers that I don't think he has anything to do with that.
So and he's an eye test guy too, Like the way that he can
dominate games, uh and not be attacked on switches makes guys just not shoot
on drives like he's just I think David has to be the best like recovery
defender in the league still to where it's like if you need if he's if
he's on the inside, but you need him to run out and can test
a shot in the corner like that was lifted up from the break or vice
versa where it's like, oh, he was out on the perimeter now he
needs to get back down to the rim to contest or dissuade that shot.
Yeah. Uh, let's so our fifth guys'll do you want to give me
yours? Or should I go here? Uh so, yeah, why don't
you go first? All right? So I this surprised me. But when
I was just doing the numbers and just thinking about it, I have Chet
Holmburn at five, which is wild because that's two rookies now, and all
you ever here his rookies. I mean he's a quote unquote rookie, but
all you hear is rookies can't defend. They're never positive as you're lucky if
they're break even. He's just kinda he does a lot of the things that
the players we've already discussed do. Uh. He's super mobile, really good
shot blocker, is like gets dunked on but goes up to block dunks all
the time. Is just is here for it rotates quickly a lot of the
same kind of like holds guys all over the floor to like a forty five
percent field goal percentage. That's great. He holds it way down to fifty
three percent inside six feet. He's just like he's you know, he's not
as as like spectacular as like Webbin Yama. He doesn't move like out of
Bio does, but he kind of does a little bit of all those things.
Uh So, I just I think I think he's done enough. You
might knock him for defensive rebounding, but part of that's just because he's all
over the floor to more than a lot of these other guys are. But
I just think I think he's been maybe the biggest reason other than I guess
Sga has to be considered as you know, the most disruptive okay, see
defender. But I think Chet is the best defensive player on the Thunder in
terms of like total impact, even with lou Dort too. They got a
lot of them, but I think Chet matters the most. That's it.
That's an interesting pick. I doesn't feel I just I guess I want to
say I probably strongly disagree with it, where it kind of feels like I
don't think he's responsible for enough outside of his I don't want to call his
comfort zone like outside of the base big man stuff, And he's not nearly
as dominant is he is. He shaping the defense in the same way that
Goberts, but again, I mean, the numbers are undeniable, and he
does he slides his feet for a big man really well. I think the
issue with him is it's like, how different is he really from like Jared
Allen, from like what Yannis can do from I don't know. There's just
a lot of other bigs that are similar impact, but I don't know.
It just felt it felt right. But again, to me, this is
a little like MVP, where there was a top four I think, and
then and then after that you could kind of go a lot of different directions.
I did go a different direction. Can you guess who it is?
Uh, it's our guy. It's just the ultimate disruptor. The pick sixes
are cool, but the assignment difficulty he shoulders is massive and he needs to
you know what I'm doing, Defensive player of the Year and less Again,
unless you're just as dominant as you are as a rim protector as Gobert,
it's I value guys who can also kind of shut off the water at the
source at a bio can do that. Davis can do that. When he
can do that, uh, Snuggs does that, and just his ability to
do it without fouling in droves and he's just he's a threat at every level
in every capacity where it's oh no, you can't really throw an entry passer
or a kickout even though you're not being defended by him, because he will
just teleport and erase those from existence. Uh. I think he is.
There's a lot of moving machinations in Orlando that accounts for their defense, but
he is just the the engine that drives everything. To me, and I'm
actually just based off the all defensive stuff I've read and listened to, I'm
surprised that he hasn't gotten more first team consideration or even back into the ballot
defensive Player of the Year consideration. I mean I was. I think I
read a couple of things and there were a couple like he didn't even make
it all defense team, which I thought was fascinating. If we had positions,
I think you're obligated to put him on your first team. That to
a good point. I think like that's an and like, well, we
can talk about some of them further down the ballot. Like you've got Alex
Carusso, you've got Derek White, You've got like, I don't know,
pick your Thompson. You've got Chris Dunn, but like Suggs has played a
ton relative to some of those guys, and I think it's just like the
most complete backcourt defender in the league right now. Everything you said is right.
He's also just like impossible to screen. He's super physical and without felt
like he's physical and like in a way that like is effective without doing the
Patrick Beverly thing where you've got three fouls on the quarter. So I think
he's the best guard defender in the league this year. I just think big
guys matter more. Still, so we haven't really talked about this. The
position thing. It's gonna I mean, we'll put our teams together later,
but it's gonna be hard for some guards to crack it unless we just decide
to do positions, because why not. You know, what do you make
of that? By the way, I think it was I was listening to.
I think it was a low post where you said that Bill Simmons is
just gonna build his teams the old way and to account for positions. Do
you like the position list switch or no? Here's the problem. If we
do that, either Bam or Wemby or Davis is not on a team,
which is like that feels wrong unless you really fudge it. I mean,
those guys are all centers, like full stop, but you'd have to fudge
it and be like, I guess Wemby is a power forward and you know,
so it doesn't just because we got to a point where like you were
allowed to call Joel and Beater Nicole okiccha forward and it was just like,
so that's what you're doing. Then you know, like like what is the
point? Well, the thing is like, for all NBA, I think
positionless makes more sense than it does for all defense, just I mean,
I don't know, I don't know if that is logical, but that's just
just how I feel because I think the best defenders tend to be big guys
just because the impact is greater as a big guy than It's just like if
you have a league average center defensively, that's worse than having a league average
guard defensively, you know, and the you know, the reverse is true.
So with all NBA, it's like, I think going position less opens
up more possibilities, where going positionless for all defense kind of closes possibilities because
it's harder for someone like Sugs to make it. Yeah, I don't know
it's it's funky. I guess like I it would almost be more fun to
pick by position, honestly, because then we could talk more about like who's
the best wing defender, who's the best point of attack guard defender, who's
the best protector. I'd probably be more in favor of it if they added
a third All Defense team if you want to keep yeah, yeah, no,
I'd be done with that because then you're gonna get you only have to
fudge, like one of these centers, one of these top four. Interesting
note, and I don't want to spoil our all eventual All Defense discussion,
but at this rate, if Wemby is where he is, he will be
the first rookie in NBA history to make first team All Defense. We've had
rookies make second team All Defense, but we've not. Tim Duncan didn't do
it. That's insane, that's crazy. Uh. But like, I mean,
he's he's gonna right, I think he's gonna Well, I guess we'll
see. There were a couple surprises on the audience ballot, so Go Bear
at one, wenb at two, so they were locked up with you Herb
Jones at three, Anthony Davis at four, and then Derek White and Kantavius
called the Pope were tied for for fifth. I think we there might have
been a way of Nuggets fans that that voted. I'm not here to say
a bad word about KCP. I love KCP, herb I get I but
like again, if there's positions, I think he's a first teamer, but
since there aren't, I just I can't quite get him there. But I
mean, he's would you say he's the best wing defender of this season?
I'm trying to think who else i'd even put up there. I guess if
you're like not counting Sugs or Derek White as like wings, that yananobe because
I mean, he's not gonna qualify. So yeah, I mean you could
say Jade McDaniels. But I feel like there's been like a little he might
have a second team case, but it feels like there's been some slippage there.
I agree. Yeah, I mean, I look, I like the
variety of the fan of the of the of the votes as opposed to ours.
But uh yeah, all right, Look, we were in lockstep at
the top at least for at least as far as my ballot's concerned. Where
do you want to go next? Oh? Man, should we let's let's
do let's do clutch player. I'm gonna pivot and just get this one out
of the way because this is a stupid award, it is, right,
I mean, I guess it's not like one that I'm super passionate about.
No, I don't know if I'm like angry about it. I'm just I'm
curmudgeonly. So all right, Yeah, this is like the criteria for this
one is just you dig into the clutch numbers. But there's a level for
me, and I gave into it a little bit, but then it still
ended up being names that I think most people would consider. There's like the
anecdotal element where you're totally dame time being an actual thing is is what I'm
saying. So, uh, who did you have as your as your Well,
actually we both have the same number one guy, So I'm just gonna
reveal him right now to Martin Rosen Again. They might as well just rename
this the Demarta Rosan Award. Yeah, I mean, he has the anecdotal
case you're talking about, plus the numbers, Like we also have the same
number two guy, which maybe put him up there since I'm going to reference
him, all right, I'll do that then, So yeah, we will
have Steph Curry at number two. Curry actually has four clutch points as of
That's the other thing with this award is it's hard to not just go to
NBA stats and start looking at like who's played the most clutch minutes, who's
got the highest plus minus in the clutch, who's made the most shots.
It just becomes a very statistical thing. But DeRozan has the anecdotal case because
you just can envision him hitting game winners all the time, and he has
these flurries like laden games that where he's just you know, scoring eight points
in the last couple of minutes like things like that, and his ability just
to get to the line in those situations is mind melting. The league high
sixty four clutch free throws made, Dan, That's like, I'll give you
one better. This was, by the way, I think this is like
and both Rosen and Steph pop up here in the final two minutes of one
possession games. So where the differentials three points are fewer, H Steph Curry
leads the league. It made shots. Demarta Rosen is number two yeah,
but demart Rose has forty one free throws in the final two minutes of one
possession game. Wow, that's fucking nuts. Just a foul machine that's in
credible. Yeah. So like, and he's shooting, I mean, fifty
percent from the field, doesn't shoot a lot of threes, but he's made
half of them, and he's making eighty seven percent of the ungodly amount of
free throws he gets. So like Steph, I think, you know,
he's got like more threes made than the next two guys combined. In the
clutch, the Warriors are like, this is the other thing. The Bulls
are like plus ninety one last I looked in DeRozan's clutch minutes, but also
like some of the other guys, the Bulls just their whole team, they're
they're clutch plus minus is really good. So I don't know what to do
with that. But the Warriors are like plus eighteen in STEP's clutch minutes,
and they were negative for a long period during the year. I don't know
what to do with that, because it's just, you know, he's got
what does he have to do with that? He's making every three he takes
and scoring the most points like it's clearly something else that is hurting the Warriors
clutch net rating. It's not him. I guess you'd point to some of
his turnovers maybe, but not enough to move the needle. I don't know
you have anything to say about those guys or you want to give your number
three. Uh, we can go to number three, which apparently it was
different from your number three. I have Look, he's gonna win MVP.
Name is Nicole Jokic. I think understeadily when you look at specifically the past
like half decade or so, one of the most underrated clutch players in general.
Uh, here is everybody. And it's kind of a spoiler because some
of these other guys will peer on my list. But there's like he just
has in the in just regular clutch minutes, he has eighteen assists to go
along with forty one made shots. And do you know, do you know
every other player in the league to match that number of assists and made shots
in clutch play? Ooh is one of them? Kobe White? There is
nobody. There's only Joki trick question damn it. It was just like that's
and like the splits are fine. Thirty eight point one percent in the clutch
from three shooting over sixty percent on two's thirty three or forty one at the
foul line. That's eighty and a half percent. Man is just a fucking
machine. I don't have Jokicic at three. I'm not gonna change it.
I probably should change it. I have Dame at three, but I had
a Yokic stet that I found too, which is hilarious. H you said,
fifty eight percent in the clutch is what his field goal percentage is.
I think he's over sixty percent from two though. Okay, so his I
just had him at fifty eight point six percent, like field goal percentage old
school number. That's better than basically everyone who plays any significant clutch minutes except
for the one and only Jalen Williams, who is shooting shooting. I'm gonna
get real close to Mike sixty nine percent from the field in the clutch,
fifty eight percent from three on thirty nine total shots. He is seven of
twelve from deep. Jalen Williams could win every award if they the Thunder would
just let him cook. Uh Anyway, Yeah, I have Dame at three.
I don't know what you need to say, he makes clutch shots,
like he hasn't been as accurate as some of these other guys, but the
bucks are you know, plus seventy eight in one hundred and thirty four clutch
minutes per Dame, He's got twenty six clutch assists, like he's just right
there. So after that, I have Jokic at number four, and I
feel terrible about it, but I'm not gonna change it now. Yeah,
so I ended up having game at five with Sga at four. He feels
like he has more anecdotal victories this year like than anybody else, which is
big moments, remembering big shots that he's hit. It is kind of like
Damian Millard's season has been so uneven, so the fact that he is ranked
so like could win. If you want to vote for him to win this
award, I'm not really gonna give you a ton of pushback, but like
these two have been. I mean, when you adjust the baseline so that
you're not just at Jokic's level, but here's here's everyone who's made as many
shots and dished as many assists in the clutch as Dame and Shay, and
it's those two in Jokic are in their own company. I will say Lebron
comes close. He's hit one fewer shots than those guys. I actually considered
him to throw him into the top five, but because like his ability to
draw fouls too, but I don't didn't. But both Shay and even Damian
Lillard fifty four free throw attempts in the clutch, made fifty two of them.
That's ninety six point three percent. That's like pretty bonkers. So the
fact that they're able to you see them change their play style. But the
fact that these guys are able to score all these different levels, and unlike
de Rosen, who I still think he deserves to win this award, like
he's not the every level score that Damian Lillard and Shay Gilich Alexander can be.
And they also maintain, just like the Martin Rosen, their ability to
get to the foul line. These dudes have been absolutely unreal in the clutch
this season, and you I mean like they all have the the plus minus
statistics to support it. But speaking of like the plus minus stuff, it
is why by the way, I'm excited for you to reveal your fifth place
guy. Yeah, it's Kobe White, and it's just like he has a
league high plus one oh three in a league high one hundred and eighty three
clutch minutes in a league high twenty eight assists in the clutch. The shooting
numbers aren't as good. He's like forty five percent overall, thirty percent from
deep, making eight over eighty percent of his free throws. But like,
I don't know, it's something like this is a small sample size award by
definition, So I think maybe it made sense to me to go with the
guy who has the largest sample of the small sample, and just he's played
the most and his plus minus is the biggest. It's hard to divorce him
from DeRozan, and like even like Vucevich has a good look like so just
like if you're on the floor for the bulls late, it's hard to know
who's doing it all. But I think White just sheer volume uh and and
he's clearly the prime facilitator if DeRozan is the prime scorer, like White is
generating shots for everybody else in the clutch, and that matters too, So
I thought I'd just throw him up there. The So I was a little
like I put together my ballot before I went through the results of what we
got from the audience. I was a little bit surprised that they were an
exact lockstep with me when he came to the names Wow, Sga at two,
Step at three, four, and Dame at five. I'd feel validated
for the most problems. Either you're you're a bigger influencer than you thought because
you've just created it's a testament to how smart our listener and followers are,
I guess, or how wrong we all collectively are together. But for the
five names on your list, show up plus all five of them, Like,
that's and this isn't like the MVP, where the race is just a
little bit more even though they're not set criteria, it's less ambiguous overall than
Clutch Player. Yeah, I agree, it's I mean, you know,
this is one where you could pick a deeper cut and just because it's super
easy to just overlook anyone that doesn't have an absurd plus minus in the clutch
like you kind of just filter those guys out. But we did have a
lot of votes by the way on this that said not picking someone because this
award shouldn't exist too. That's my those are my people, all right,
let's do it. Let's do the next one. Do you want to bang
out Executive of the Year since that's just next over on the sheet here,
that's my favorite. I'm just kidding. Yeah, just you love transactions,
you love the salary cap. This one has not really well, that's not
true. I did bring someone in that I did not have even on my
down ballot considerations. Last time we did these, I think we, oh,
we don't agree on the top. Well, we're pretty close obviously.
Number one Brad Stevens, Right, like the Celtics team that he put together,
the trades they made were bold, theoretically thinned the team because they traded
like four rotation guys for two. But it's just like the team that this
this team has already won sixty games, and it would not have done this
if they hadn't made the changes they did. So, you know, I
don't know who else you would possibly consider a number one here. Yeah,
and look, it wasn't a no brainer. The Porzingis trades specifically wasn't a
no brainer. I think you look after the fact and the Drew Holiday trade,
it's okay you do that. But I saw someone saying, I guess
because of what happened with Marcus smartt Robert Williams the third this year that they
got all these guys for passing peanuts, and it's like, I mean,
no, those dudes weren't important when healthy, and the fact that they weren't
healthy this year and Smart didn't play well, I get it. These weren't
easy decisions to make, and so to do that and to just have a
team that's like first all time and net rating, I think at this point
or whatever it is he is, I think he's the only answer here,
unless you're gonna look at it through like very Homer goggles. I don't know
who else you you go with. We do have the same like two and
three, but we have them in a different order, So I'll throw those
up there. I have Rafael Stone at two. You have Leon Rose at
three. I have Leon Rose three. You've Leon Rose two. I have
Raffael Stone. You have Rafael Stone at three. It can't go in either
order, but I do ultimately think we kind of have the factor in that.
Okay, Ojia, nobody's injured. Even though that trade made a ton
of sense, and the Dante de Vincenzo contracts still looks great, deducing bride
contract looks fantastic. The trade you made for going up by Donovich and Alec
Burks that hasn't panned out. But then how do you juxtapose that with well,
Quentin Grimes is done for the season. They couldn't hit a three for
Detroit. I just look at what Stone did, like Diame and Thompson pick.
I guess that was technically a no brainer, but given the immediate aspirations
they had, it wasn't necessarily that. But beyond that, you have the
Dylan Brook getting Fred van Fleet, even having Jeff Green for you in the
locker room. This is a team and I think I like the move they
went and they got Steven Adams, and like for next year's purposes, that's
going to be something that that helps them. And so I think you look
at this team and what it turned into this year. I do wonder if
I'm maybe giving him some credit for stuff that falls outside this calendar, but
like the Rockets that I mean, like even you have to include hiring Ima
Udoka in here, just because they turned into a top five defense. Yeah,
I think that's right. I wonder if maybe I'm giving Leon rose Like
some some credit for things outside of this year, right, because I think,
what is so the Deuce McBride contract. Do you know what that is?
No, I don't know, I don't remember. So it is they
signed him basically immediately after the trade. They signed him to a three year
extension that is going to be worth I think it's three years and eleven million
is the number that he signed signed that three years than thirteen million. I
mean, he wasn't playing at the time, and by the way, it's
declining, so it'll be at its highest at four point seven million next year
when he's three point three percent of the salary cap. That contract looks like
this is I'm not we have to see how he plays next season. But
if you're ranking the best value contracts for teams not players, obviously in the
NBA, he's gonna be up there because he's played out of his mind right
now. And then what he's given them over the last several weeks worth like
ten million of that. I think you also need to credit him. I
almost wish I had him too now because even thinking back to like the way
they negotiated the Josh Hart extension, so like him not signing a brand new
contract that really inflated his salary this season that'll start to kick in next year.
It helps you bring in these other moving pieces, specifically having the money
to make sure they're gonna sign Dotte DiVincenzo. So just a lot of good
business. But just looking at the way that the trades panned out, Yeah,
it's the availability of Ogi Ananobe factors into it. And so I still
would make that move if I'm the Knicks, but I just gave I gave
Stone the nod because the Rockets, the progress they made from this season to
last is really it's a testament to Yeah, some of the talent they already
had, but like there were a lot of levers that were pulled to bring
in new players, bringing a new coach that are responsible for as well.
I also Cam Whitmore being brave enough you could say it was a no brainer.
How many gms passed on Cam Wymore? Well, like nineteen of them,
right or whatever? Was I think? I think, if you're gonna
knock Rose at all, which I don't want to do, I have him.
Third, it's like what happens if brook Lopez doesn't back out? Like,
yeah, it's like did you know what? You clearly didn't know what
you had in Shangun well that but then like flip it again, like I
don't know, maybe Jalen Green does this all year if he has a floor
spacing center most of the time, like you don't know, like it might
have been. But still it's like he wanted to bring on Jalen Green to
know that like months October through January or always. I feel like I'm skewing
too far towards like I'm almost like apologizing for being so skeptical of Jalen Green,
and I'm going too far now. I'm like I think i I'm over
my skis a little bit on him in ways that make me uncomfortable. I'm
gonna give you my four and five because I'm very interested to hear about your
your four. I am Sam Presty and Kobe Altman really quickly with the Kas
and Kobe Altman. You look at just the roster they built where it's almost
been better like to navigate injuries than it has been at full strength, which
is why kids awkward when maybe we should do Coach of the Year next.
When you talk about JB. Bicker Stephan, it's he's done a better job
coaching this team when they're shorthanded versus when they have all their main guys all
what does that mean? Max Struce was a good was a great signing.
Craig Porter Junior was an excellent fine. Bringing Karris Lavert back was not a
no brainer decision. And he's in the sixth Man of the Year discussion,
so I think you need to credit him for that. And it felt like
this year there just wasn't not to you know, poop poo all over his
his case here. But I just feel like there weren't a ton of great
options, like if you wanted to go with the Clippers front office for the
hard and trade or vice versa with Morey for opening up the cat flexibility and
h in Philly I did. I've very much to consider Michael Winger slash Will
Dawkins and Washington just to really rip that band aid off. I just don't
think they did enough of the trade deadline. And I still maintain the hornets
some of those picks that they got, like does miss Cumpjack, like come
in here? How does this work? But I think Altman is someone who
deserves not there. And then Presty, I know a lot of this stuff
that Gordon Hayward acquisition has not been gangbusters, but the fact that he is
now traded first round picks for these like higher end swaps. When you're looking
at what happened with the Dallas trade of the deadline specifically, I think it's
a very shrewd piece of roster building. And that's just in addition to like
everything that they've already built up and that like even like being able to use
mesage to go get Gordon Hayward and to bring that guy into where you have
I guess that veteran with size who can theoretically handle the ball and defer.
I like the stuff a lot of what they've done. Sorry to stumble my
words here. It's been on the margins, but it has been very creative
and I think ultimate super important. Yeah, so my four I didn't have
anywhere near the ballot. It's like half of a joke, but also kind
of not. It's it's Zach Cleman, the Grizzlies top executive, and like
I think it's fair. It's mostly fair to say the Marcus Smart trade was
not a good one, but he was hurt for like the whole year,
so whatever this is about. The Grizzlies played thirty one different human beings this
year and that is an NBA record, And so just by definition, Zach
Cleman was like doing the most, like he just had to go find guys
and they did. Like, look, I you know, who knows how
much value you should put in late season or like lost season performances. But
like Gigi Jackson looks like, I don't know what he's gonna be, but
he's gonna be something and that's hard to do in like what he was picked
in the forties. I think the youngest player in the league has had multiple
high scoring games. Looks like he's, you know, the big wing slash
combo forward type that everybody wants. And then Vince Williams Junior is another guy
that like just emerged as a starter and they just just had him. So
I think, like, you know it, I feel like you a little
bit. Where after really the top three, it's kind of like, I
don't know, man, there's just a lot of ways to go. I
think, just some acknowledgment there. And then Mike Dunlevy, I know,
like getting Pajemski where they got him, getting Trace Jackson Davis at the very
end of the second round. I think the Chris Paul trade to just get
off the pool contract looks better all the time, even though Paul, I'm
trying to think what else I was I just did. I just didn't move
down Levy from where I had him when we did this a couple. Not
giving Klay Thompson a twenty plus million, giving Thompson forty million a year,
you're gonna get him for a fraction of that. That's yeah. So I
think some other guys I had thought about Presty, thought about Maury, thought
about Winger and Dawkins, and I did have cup Check still on my like
way down ballot for for the Brandon Miller pick. I mean, yeah,
like another one. That's another Also who the audience actually did end up voting
for uh in their top five and someone I gave consideration to. Now I'm
just wondering, like staring at the list, or if I didn't give it
an consideration too. But our listeners audience had Tim Connolly at number four,
so Steven's at one, Sam Presty at two, Leon Rose at three,
Connolly at four, and then Nielson at five, which I mean, I
guess as were playing, it's kind of like I'm not gonna dump all over
that by any stretch. It's it's just look, it's panning out. I
guess this is one. It's a regular season award though, and I guess
like the Matters might have home court advantage in the playoffs, so it ends
up panning out. That's I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie. That's not someone
I gave. But like they brought in Dante Exem Derek Jones Junior, like
they did make these even the Josh Green extension looks super reasonable, So that's
totally fair. Tim Connolly, that was interesting because you look at the Nikkei
Alexander Walker contract and the nas Reed Caught extension. Those are two of the
best team friendly deals in the league. Yeah, right now, and then
even now think about the Mike Conley extension to get that hammered out. He's
under twelve million the next two years per season. Those are big deals and
then there might be I don't know how much you reward him this, but
is there value in kind? I mean also, getting Monte Morris at the
deadline is just sort of if he's healthy, breaking case emergency there, but
is there also value it? Okay, they didn't go through last year and
then try and undo unmake some of the moves they already did, and they
they didn't necessarily chalk it up to it was still risky, but they decided,
hey, we didn't see enough of this team together and so you stuck
with it. And so there's a level of respectability in that. The more
I think about it, I'm kind of like, maybe he does deserve to
be in my top five. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean,
look, I got I got Zach Kleman in my top five. You
can definitely. I'm sorry, that's agregious. I guess Gugi Jackson, Vince
Williams. But it's just like, does that offset enough of what happened with
the Marcus Smart trade? Now? But this who cares? We got our
top three, that's all it really matters. Yeah, I think I did
think about Nico Harrison, but then you know, we we've both said that,
like the MAVs trade's biggest of big pictures are like still iffy. I
think so, I don't know, but yeah, the results now are are
the trades were a success? Like that's just where we are and they and
like we do I think reward moves that are not obvious. I think that's
like the Porzingis move for Boston is one of those uh trying to think what
else, like just the so like, if you're gonna do it that way,
then I guess like, yeah, Nico Harrison like made a move that
looked risky and and maybe not smart and has turned out well, So like
maybe extra bonus points there just to look, this is just gonna I'm just
doing it's it's as a joke, but I'm also kind of serious. Shout
out to our audience. They've officially changed my ballot and I'm even gonna throw
it with their caller on there, Tim Connolly's now the top five? Might
your rankings? All right? You know, look you're you're really easily influenced.
It's fine. Uh should we just we should probably do Coach of the
Year next? Right, since we're kind of on the topic. This is
this is your show, so yeah, let's do Coach of the Year.
Let's do it. So do you wanna who is who is your coach of
the year? Grant my guy and your guy Mark Dagnall Number one. I
don't know really what you say that the second youngest team in the league has
had him or I haven't looked in the last couple of days, but you
know, definitely in the top ten, but we're in the top five on
offense and defense for a long time. Has them playing a distinctive style,
like all the driving kicks, drive kick, drive kick, drive kick,
until you either get a layup or a three. I think he's one of
the best, like just game to game, you know, rotation and tactical
adjustment makers in the league. I think the way that he's found ways to
utilize guys that would otherwise be tricky to play, like other Jalen Williams and
like Isaiah Joe, it just gets a lot out of everybody. The Thunder
play hard, like I don't really know what, Like it would be harder
for me to say, like what does Dagnalt not do well? You know,
like some coaches are all they're weird with their rotations or they narrow down.
His rotation might be well, I mean, that's sure, but I
think he's pretty clearly he's gonna win it, and I think he should.
Yeah, I'm with you. I had so I'm gonna reveal both our top
we have the same top three, they're just in different order. I had
Joe Mizzula at to Jamal Moseley at three. You had Jamal Moseley too,
Joe Mizzuola at three. I think even with the talent Joe Mizzula has had,
the bosses, Celtics have obliterated expectations. And as we already kind of
mentioned with the executive the year stuff, those trades weren't a given. Not
everybody necessarily loved or thought. I was a skeptic. I thought they were
going to be at a playmaking deficit because and even if you thought, well,
Drew Holle wasn't upgrade for Marcus Smart, it still felt like they didn't
address the primal need, and in some ways they still haven't. But like,
was this team on paper supposed to be one of the best teams in
NBA history. You couldn't have just like some of the things that factor that
good health and stuff. But the way they've used Perzingias is good. The
way they've got Drew Holliday to buy into a lesser role on the offensive end,
a smaller role whatever you want to call it. They've even they like
up Derek White's volume as this on ball creator for others, I think that
he's done a fantast drop and then is I know some of this has to
do with the injuries that are in the East, but like the Magic weren't
supposed to be here, maybe you could have said, oh, yeah,
they'll have an elite defense. Are they supposed to be competing for home court
advantage in the first round? And again I would shot when you look at
their offensive struggles, I think the fact that he is able to carve out
so much space for their drivers for a Palo Bank Carroll, that things aren't
worse for those guys is a testament to what he does. Yeah, Mosley
climbed the most for me. I don't think I had him in the top
five last time, and that was because, like I think, I was
holding the offense against him while acknowledging that you know, the defense has been
awesome and just like you said, the Magic have outperformed expectations. I just
think the Magic offensive problems are just personnel. Like I just I don't know
that there's a coach that is going to get this group to have like a
top ten offense or anything close to that. So I think with what with
the players he has and with really young guys occupying a ton of you know,
high leverage spots. I think he deserves to be up there. Yeah,
him and Missoula, like you could. I'm not going to quibble between
those two. I think just Missoula has so much talent, but like he
had to organize it, so he had to figure out how to use Derek
White the way he's using him and so on, So both awesome jobs.
Do you think either of these two have a case to win it over marked
Dagnault? Yeah, but I think the momentum is definitely like in Dagnault's favor,
although like I think if you're if you're, yeah, they have a
case. I just don't think it's It's like, if I would put it
this way, I'd be really surprised to meet someone that said, like,
it's insane that you have Dagnault over either of these guys, whereas if you
flipped it, it's like, well, I don't know. I think it's
I think has the strongest case by virtue of coach of by far and away
would have been the best regular season team. Yeah, I think it makes
sense to reward the guy or whoever is responsible for like real greatness, and
that's definitely like the Celtics are at that level. We have the same final
two candidation, just in a different order. I had Chris Finch, Tom
Tiboeau at five, you had TIBs at four. Chris Finch it at five.
Do you want to what was your logic for the way you ordered that
up? Yeah? I kind of moved Finch out of this number two spot
just because the offense I think is underperforming relative to the personnel it has,
and the defense seems Yeah, I guess it's more just like it's harder for
me to point to something that Finch is doing that is making the Wolves as
great as good as they are, whereas like with with Dagnall, with Mosley,
with Missoula, it's a little easier. And with Tibbs too, I
think like the Knicks are a weird team and he's just sort of figured out,
in addition to getting the play really hard, how to make this work.
And I think that's like, I don't know if another coach is getting
out of the Knicks what Tibbs has gotten out of the Knicks during this season.
The thing that I guess I struggle with with Tibby. He absolutely belongs
here. I want to make but like we're just going to fair game on
criticism. If you put a coach in here and said, hey, you're
gonna play Josh Hard over forty two minutes per game post All Star break,
or hey you're gonna throw Miles McBride and Jalen Brunson. You're gonna like ride
those guys maybe maybe into the into the ground, Like how much of that
should factor against it? And then you kind of dig into it, and
it's like in terms of players, like just looking at their minutes and mark
but this isn't the whole season, but like looking at their minutes of March
Dante Evencenzeol thirty seven plus, Miles McBride thirty five plus, and then Josh
Hard almost forty two minutes a game, he's actually done a pretty good job
not over at using Jalen Brunton. When you look at minutes per game,
there's no just I think the fact that he's known when to like kind of
stick with Isaiah Hartenstein in the middle. The Knicks do play smaller I think
on the wings that a lot of people would prefer them to. But he's
the fact that he's indulged that. But then I come back to well,
has he given Boya mcdonovitch enough of a fair shake evergetting him from the trade
dead line, then Quentin Grimes get enough of a fair shake. I still
that was just the splitting hairs thing here. And then when I look at
Chris Finch, it's okay. The fact that he has able to have this
defense just absolutely flying around. Also the fact that you were able to get
this season out of Nikhil Alexander Walker, the fact that you were able to
get this season out of Karl Anthony Towns, even defensively, and so you
can like kind of quibble over some of the lineups that he's run, and
then their offense. You know, they don't like to run a lot of
set plays and do they have the personnel to do that. I just think
when you look at where this team was last season in part because of injury,
but based off to where they are now, like he could easily be
some like if you had him too on your I don't know if I could
make his case over Mark Dagnol, but maybe you could. I mean,
just look at like the Wolves are competing, you know, right there at
the same level as the Thunder. So yeah, I think I had him
at two or three last time, So I get it. We got to
mention like Eric Spolstra is not on either of our lists. I think we
both agree he's the best coach in the league. I had him at number
three last time, and it's just the he's a given, you know.
And I think Immiodoka deserves recognition, and I think Nick Nurse deserves And I
guess you mentioned bigger staff too. Does a bigger staff is? I just
it has the weird case. Uh. The toughest cut for me was ema
Udoka and it's am I penalizing him because his team hasn't won at the same
level as these other ones. And then it's well, they weren't supposed to.
And look at where they were just last season with By the way,
when you look at some of their most used players from last season, three
of those dudes are still factoring very prominently into what you're doing. That's why
that's a great like doing more with the same guys, that's a the Yeah,
that's right. Uh, our listeners had Uh they were in lockstep with
us. When you look at there were there's a surprise, I'll call it
a surprise. I was actually surprised at how far down Joe Mizula finished,
but Mark Degnold at one, Chris Finch at two, Michael Malone at three,
Jamal Moseley at four, and then Joe Mizoula at five. Uh,
Michael Malone, do you think he deserves like that level of And look,
it was close enough to where it was like, I don't. I'm sure
we had nuggets fans like found the link and they were really upvoting that they're
one of the they're considered no worse than the team's second most likely to want
a title, and he has had to navigate the weird Okay, our bench
is unproven and I figured it out, like like with the season that Peyton
Watson has had, he's kind of on the periphery of the most improved player
discussion. They've been able to navigate a bunch of weirdness from Christian Brown this
season. He's gotten away from printing Jamal Murray and Reggie Jackson together. It
feels like he's been more experimental with Aaron Gordon at the five. Do you
think he doesn't get enough credit for what he's doing. I think probably that's
the case, But it's also because I think the sense is that like,
well, how much does he really have to do because Jokic is on this
team and like Jokich know you know what I mean, Like it's it's the
kind of why does Joe Mizula finish so high? Up? Look who's on
that team? Well, I mean yeah, but I think, well,
I think it's a little different because Jokic, I think, is regarded as
just like he'll just figure it all out, you know, in a way
that that like the volume of talent on Boston May you know, isn't viewed
as necessarily being able to do in quite the same way. But yeah,
I think like credit Malone for you know, like the knock on jokicen the
Nuggets up until they proved it wrong, was like, well, this defense
is never going to be good enough, and like he had a hand in
making it good enough with the way they use Yokic defensively, with the way
they move Gordon, you know. But I think it's just a talent thing,
especially with Jokic, where it's like people are reluctant to maybe give the
Malone credit because it's like, you know, he's winning all the races,
but he's got the fastest car so like, how much credit does that deserve?
Yeah, I think I think that's not saying that's my opinion. Although
he's not in my top five. It's funny that I put you on the
defensive with this and it's not like he was in my top five. I
just know, I know, it's just like just a question. I think
it's legitimate. If we think the Nuggets are the team most likely to win
a title, we probably should have their coach up here, But I don't
know, we don't. So six Man of the Year next, Yeah,
let's do it. Uh, this is I feel like, is it too
easy? Of all? I don't want to say too easy, that's a
stupid way to frame it. But like, it wasn't it wasn't that hard
for me to say especially uh, I mean it was. It was kind
of hard for the top two, but other than that, it wasn't super
hard for me. So who did you? Uh? Well, we disagree
at the top because I have Malik Monk at number one and you and you
don't. That's a great way to but we do have the same top Should
I just reveal it? We have the same top three, don't top three?
Yeah? Yeah, So let's look at the top three. So I
have NOAs Read number one. Uh, I have Malik Monk number two,
and I have Norman Powell number three. You have Monk one, Nos two,
Norman Powell three. And so the difference for me at least is when
it comes to nas and Malik Monk is I know the value that Monk brings
offensively as a playmaker and driver. Nas Read is just going to fill more
gaps and he's a very good enough scorer when you look at his floor game,
when you look at his shooting that I'm comfortable to say, well,
okay, the value he's also going to bring you on defense as his valuability
being able to defend on the perimeter, his rim protection has improved, the
fact that he can play next to a big or I think that now we've
gotten to a point where seeing hey, he can get some minutes away as
the loan big on the court matters a whole bunch to me. And then
it is funny we had this. I don't think it was on this podcast.
It was on the previous episode we recorded last week about oh why is
Nikil Alexander Walker not considered the sixth man in Minnesota? Should he be here.
But I just view Nads as kind of feeling. I don't know if
he feels more gaps than naw does, but I would call him a little
bit more like na as the passing, but like nas Reid feels like more
of a threat to score from. Like all these kind of different different levels
to me. But yeah, he is. He was my pick last time,
and I'm sticking with him. But this was tough because Elie Monk has
been spectacular. He leaves the league in assists off drives and that's just wild
because you have to consider how many drives Luca those guys have used compared to
Malik Monk. Yeah, the only guy in the league averaging more drives per
game in fewer minutes than Monk is t J McConnell, and TJ mcconald' drives
are just different, Like they're not the same as what Malik Monk is doing.
Yeah, so I just so read I think a lot of what you
would what I would say to credit Monk, which is that like he's really
not like the sixth most valuable guy on his team, like he is in
the top five. And you see that born out in like there's twelve players
in the league with more fourth quarter points and assists than he has, and
they're all all stars other than like Kate Cunningham and Kobe White ridiculously high assist
percentage on drives like we've talked about. So it's like, this guy's really
a starter and also more importantly, like a closer like he's he spent a
bunch of time in the top ten and fourth quarter scoring until he kind of
fell off ninety eight clutch points. But you could say all this about Reid
too, because as a starter, Reid is averaging like nineteen and six on
sixty percent shooting. So it's like, that's good, that's great numbers for
a starter. That's part of a sixth man's role. By the way,
where he had to come in and he they haven't started him as he started
every game that town has been I don't think. I don't think he has,
and he's got ten or eleven, but so he like it's it's kind
of the same argument in a different way for both of them. I just
feel like Monk, I think I value the playmaking and like the initiator role
a little bit more than Reid. But like Reid's numbers are kind of unassailable,
So no no issue there, I think for is it for Powell?
For you, it's just like he's the ultimate like old school yea points uh.
He makes, he makes and takes a lot of threes, and but
it's also like he does it efficiently, which like, hey, here's this
room pressure and I'm gonna shoot a bunch of threes, but actually make them.
It's not kind of like you know, it's not Lou Williams Jordan Clarkson.
Yeah, it's it's like not that type of chucker volume. And so
like him and bogged Down Bydonovich, the playmaking from bog Down Bdonovich is a
is a big one for me, and his ability to like kind have still
forced defense into rotation even when is off the dribble, jumpers and falling.
So we both had him at at number four. So we're in lockstep with
our top four guys. I kind of feel like like if there wasn't no
if it wasn't gonna be Nas or Monk at the top for you, I
mean, we have Padle three, so it would be like, do either
of these two guys have a case to beat out the two guys in front
of them? Or is there a clear separation there. I think there's a
pretty clear one too. I like Bogdanovic. Yeah you said it like he's
the combo guardie. He's really more of a two these days. But I
don't think his impact as like a well to me, since I have Monk
first, I'm comparing everybody to him if I'm considering like what the pluses and
minuses are, like, I just don't think his impact as like a play
creator is on the level of Monks. So yeah, I think I feel
I feel like one two is pretty locked, and I think three four is
pretty locked. Like my fifth guy is just a very different player that I
think you couldn't because of the minute totals. You just can't, as John
Isaac, you just can't kind of like put up any higher than this.
You could, well, but you could because they don't. The game's requirement
doesn't apply to this. It doesn't. But in just in terms of like,
yeah, net impact, it's if you're playing fifteen minutes a night,
it's just not the same as guys that are playing twice that much, you
know. Yeah, So I mean the defensive impact is undeniable for him,
So stupid Isaac stats for you when you after you give your fifth guy.
So I have Isaiah Joe just I don't think his minutes it can be all
over the place a little bit, which is why I because I initially if
they had him higher than uh Bugdanovic and the last time we did this,
but they've been pulled back. Well they've just been more inconsistent. But you
look at what he's able to do. Yes, we know what he does
is like a movement shooter, but like this is a guy who set screens.
He'll make his threes, he can put the ball on the floor,
you get moving inside the arc, and I do really think he's not a
great defender, but he busts his ass on the defensive end. If his
minutes were up there, I'd probably consider putting him above Powell. So he
was like playing more of like the higher stakes moments for them. But yeah,
that's where I ended up with him. And before you just get into
some of your your Isaac stats, just some other names to kind of consider
here. I think Duncan Robinson's gonna end up starting too many games. Brandon
Perjemski could still be right there, technically, Jim Hawkes al Horford's a good
one. He might have deserved a love. Tim Hardaway Junior I said,
did I say Jordan Clarkson, Tarris LeVert, TJ McConnell, even Walker Kessler,
Bobby Portis this year, those are all names that both of us considered.
Yeah, so Isaac real quick, Like, I think he's been the
best other than Gobert, and honestly, like would have a case against Gobert
as the best permanent defender in the league. He like, it's just like
his ability to make guys miss, So opponents are shooting forty point two percent
when he's the primary defender. He's getting about six shots defense per game,
which is not high, but that is by far the lowest field goal percentage
allowed of any defender who's played at least fifty games and has defended that many
shots per game. So like, it's a low threshold and he's just like,
you don't don't make shots against him. And then and at the inside
six feet he's allowing forty three percent conversion rate. Gobert's at forty eight,
Like, just like that's the samples tiny, but that's like unheard of four
point one percent block rate, two percent steel rate, those are one hundredth
and ninety fourth percentile figures for his position, respectively. He's just like you
watch him play. I can't believe he can move the way that he can
after all the injuries he's had. But the guy's like a premium A plus
rim defender that can still move around the floor, which is just like,
I mean, anybody can. He just can't. The minutes just may not
ever be there for him. But I wanted to just throw him out there
because like he's he's the best like low minute player in the league, I
think by a pretty considerable margin. Our our audience had some some interesting names
here. Malik Monk number one, Nasri number two, so they were not
Powell three, bogged On four so they were in lockstep with you. Brandon
pujems Key number five got some love. I will say. The other names
that we received. TJ McConnell was on ballast. There was Peyton Watson and
Christian Brown. Uh. There was also I don't understand this at all,
Michael Porter Junior and Tyrese Maxie received votes. I thought, I think we
got some nuggets infiltration if Brown and Watson and then MPJ somehow shows up even
though, ever, was that has MPJ come off the bench like once this
year? Oh my god, I don't. I don't think with the with
the votes are these he said, yeah, all seventy five games have been
He's oh no, he came off. He hasn't come off the bench like
in the past three years at all. So that's just bizarre to me.
We had this shouldn't be a thing. Was also on the ballot for six
man well, I mean Chris Paul made an appearance. I did say TJ
McConnell before the pagens he wont is interesting. I didn't really consider him because
I would have considered Duncan Robinson more too. But like when I kind of
just looked at how many of their starts were creeping up there, I couldn't
get to that with pods. But if you're just gonna view it as,
hey, Brandon Progeenski has started what is he at now thirty three starts or
something. If you're just gonna say that's less than half the season, so
oh, he's at twenty seven starts. If you're just gonna look at that
number and say that that's enough for me, I think that's fine. He's
certainly like not to appear on the top five. Bout is not egregious at
all, the fact that there could have been two rookies him and I my
Hawkes like to appear on here, like Projensky's not starting, whether the past
five games or something's come off the bench, right, So yeah, I
totally get a wrong question. I do not understand MPJA or tires MAXI being
here though. That all that. Also, let's do what do we have
left Rookie of the year and most improved. I think we should leave most
improved for the last Let's do rookie this one. Man, this was this
was tough' it's it's Wemby at the top for me. WHOA. So we're
to hear you because you had Chet number one last time, I think,
yeah, I didn't reverse it this time. I have I have Wemby at
one. And I said that on the last podcast that when we were recording
it, I was still kind of just in the mode of, Okay,
well, look at what Chet has done all of this season. We can't
just dismiss the entire body of work. And I think there are people that
are still going to vote for Chet as number one, which is ultimately fine,
but I can't Here's what I can't square when you just look at what
Victor Wemberyama is doing versus what Chet is doing for the team he's doing it
on like this is someone like Chet is no worse than the third most important
player on what might be the best team in the Western Conference. That is
wild, and that has to matter. But I do think the scope of
Wemby's role covers more. Chet is more than a specialist on offense, but
like Whmby's hitting pull up threes, that's his role. So I don't want
to penalize Chet for playing around pretty clearly superior talent, but like, I
don't think he can anchor a like the defensive personnel that Wemby has around him,
where it's Devin Vicell and like, yeah, there's Jeremy so In,
but like, you don't have a ton of great defensive talent around you,
and yet the Spurs were the eightieth percentile defensively when he's on on the court.
And I like, by the way, for basically like more than half
the season, the Spurs have won the minutes that Victor Wibanyam has been on
the court, and so he might not be playing at a ton of higher
stakes moments, but the Spurs are winning for most of this season. The
minutes that he has been on the floor, that's a that's a big free
for him right there. Like if you don't, if you'd forget the highlights
and the numbers, it's like that's impossible, Like you got to be so
good for that to be true. Yeah, it's just so his it's it
really is a fascinating case. But I mean, like just everything he is
doing so and since look so when they made him their starting five twenty two
points four assists while increasing his true shooting percentage from fifty two to almost fifty
nine, we've seen some live rouble passing from him that shine through, and
it's it's beyond just kickouts. He's doubting during this stretch, grand forty one
point eight percent of his pull up triples and this is covering forty seven games.
That's the fourth best mark among everyone who's attempted at least one hundred pull
up threes in that span. That's fucking nuts. And he's taking deep ones
like he is not afraid of the logo three. Like it's not like it's
just no shape of Chet. It's just it's supposed to be the best.
I mean, this also happens to be the Wemby's should have the better career
if he's healthy. Wemby has been the most impactful rookie this season. Now
we've played enough of it to where we're talking about samples. When we were
last talking it was a little bit less than half the season. It's more
than half the season, and like that that just has to matter for me.
Yeah, it's I I just the numbers, you know, we've I
just I want to almost like give Chet some flowers because I think in a
lot of years he would run, he'd be running away with this. So,
like you, if you do a bunch of the just point three rebounds,
assists, block averages, like Wemby is just on pace to do the
first thing ever basically right like he's he's putting up rookie numbers we've just never
seen before. But if you if you just take Chet and say round him
down sixteen points seven boards, two assists, there's like a dozen other rookies
that have done that. And then if you just filter it for guys who
make any threes at all, there's like two and so like he's just Chet
is you know, we would be talking about Chet like he's oh my god,
he's the best rookie since whatever if not for Wemby because like, and
he's also impacting winning, like you said, which is it's not fair to
Wembanyama. God knows what the thunder will be doing if they had wem Banyama
and not Homeger And like that's a fun thought experiment. But Chet and Wenby
on the same team that holds do opposing teams even score ninety points a game?
I don't think layups would be allowed, like under any circumstances on that
team. It's I think the rest of the ballots where it gets a little
more interesting and it's kind of a you know, choose your flavor. I
was gonna ask you we both had Brandon Miller at three. Yeah, but
do you think there's a case for someone else to appear there? I mean,
if you go with the numbers like you, if you're in the advanced
metrics, I think there's a case for like a lot of guys to be
ahead of Miller, like pods. I think probably it has the should be
number three. If that's all all you really care about, and then Aman
Thompson made like a really late push. He's got positive box plus minus,
which not a lot of rookies have. I think of the next chunk of
guys, some of the advanced metrics like Thompson the best, but like I
think Miller, it's an eye test thing, like he's just he's the big
wing that can get his own shot, is going to be a good defender,
is just a more complete player with a higher ceiling than anybody really than
most people thought. It's just once you leave the Miller spot and go down
to like Pajemski, even Hawkes, Wallace, the Thompson's lively, it's like,
yeah, there's some good starters there, maybe probably and the Thompsons certainly.
The upside is like who knows, But like Miller is, like if
he's not an All Star several times, it'd be more of a it'd be
surprising, right, whereas with the rest of the guys, I think that
what they've shown doesn't rise to that level. Yeah, and Miller's defense really
sold it for me, Like, look, he's shooting forty seven percent on
his pull up twos. That's good, thirty nine percent on his catch and
shoot threes, and the fact that he's maintained that where you're not getting teed
up by LaMelo because he's barely played, but just the defense, the pre
ball pressure, the ability to chase after motion guys. They've also had to
use him because of like Mark Williams, really not playing a ton this season.
He's second on the team and shots contested at the rim, and this
is fascinating. I'll probably regurgitate this that because I find it's so fascinating when
we do our all rookie teams. So there are four hundred and seventy plus
players who are under six nine that have log time this season in the NBA.
Miller ranked sixth in the number of shots contested at the basket among that
group. That and so it's just like he's wearing a lot of hats for
a rookie defensively. And I think it's flown under the radar a little bit
because of how bad Charlotte has been and just how many injuries they've dealt with.
And so he was an easy number three. Who did you have at
number four? So I have Pajemski at four. I think I would have
felt a lot better about this, Like six weeks ago. Maybe he has
some real like there's gonna be some real hurdles for him, Like finishing at
the rim has become really difficult. He's just not athletic enough. Getting his
own shot off when just closely defended is hard for him. But like just
a phenomenal rebounder, makes the right pass all the time, is super unselfish,
plays as I mean, plays incredibly hard, like all that stuff.
I think he's gonna stick in a rotation for a long time. There was
a minute there where it was like, Oh, this guy's gonna be a
starter for sure. I don't know if that's the case anymore, just because
athletically he's pretty limited. But I think he's got all. He's got the
intangibles he's got, Like he's gonna be a good defender just because he's smart
and he plays hard and knows where to be and is super aggressive. So
I just I thought he and looked like he took over a starting job for
a guy that the team really did not want to bench. Uh, So
like that's that's a big factor too. So I had I'm gonna go my
four and five because I ended up not putting pods in my In my top
five, I had jiay Hawks four case and Wallace at five. The himay
hawkis case is just like he's a you know, when we talk about connector
types, it feels like they're almost always like these guards, and he's a
connector wing or foe or whatever you want to consider him. The defense is
there. He will come in, he will bust up entry passes, he'll
get the the you know, he'll fly into these kickouts to the corners and
he'll he'll he'll ruin those. We've seen him cover some pretty tough assignments offensively.
The numbers aren't gonna drop off the page, and he's not. You
know, he's under thirty two percent from three this season, but he scores
efficiently in general, sixty six plus percent on his payton touches, is boring,
above average at the rim from mid range in transition on post ups.
We've seen him drop some really nice dimes on these live dribbles. And the
fact that he is kind of figuring out a way to mesh offensively with the
heat again that we've seen him hit higher peaks from three too, Like he's
had some pretty good splits, but they've also been uneven, but to be
as good defensively as a rookie, which also, by the way, and
this leads into what case why have Cason Wallace here? Some things. He's
a regular member of what might be the best team in the Western Conference as
a rookie. His defense, he's able to guard up, he can really
get into the ball. He's another player who's going to be tough to screen.
And then he fits like a glove on the offensive end, where you
almost want him to take more shots. But he can hit his threes,
he's going to he can attack in space, and he can make some nice
passes, like we've seen some gnarly footwork when he's in traffic, even after
picking up his dribble. And so you want that to get better. And
I know his minutes are going to pale in comparison. And look, if
we do this exercise, you know, when we do all rookie I might
flip flop and have Amen Thompson here. But like he had, Casey Wallace
has the minutes and games played advantage right now. And the fact that the
hunderd is so good and he's a regular member of that really sealed it for
me. And also just you know, we talk about this with Chet,
with Wemby, with Hawkes, with Wallace, Amen Thompson, Osar Thompson.
Has there ever been a rookie class that was just this good defensively in the
aggregate? I mean Chet obviously didn't come from this draft class specifically, of
course, it's wild Yeah, no that I didn't really thought about it that
way. There's like, I mean, all of all the guys we've listed
on both our ballots are good defenders, like you know, and there's way
more down that aren't here that would kind of speaking of I have Amen Thompson
at five, and like the playing time is not you know, as high
as you might want it to be. This is almost like I want to
be on the right side of history picked Like I need to get this one
on the record because what I've seen of him now, like he started out
the season hurt, so it was like kind of took a while to come
on, and then I think the Shngoon injury opened up some opportunities for him
that weren't there before. But like athletically, a lot of the same things
we said about Asar earlier this year was just like this guy is one hundredth
percentile, like in just terms of pure NBA athleticism, like he stands out
on a floor with nine other like superhuman athletes. He's a really good passer,
He's gonna block a ton of shots, He's gonna get a ton of
steals. The shot is not there like full stop. I think I don't
know how I would rate. I think he probably has a higher likelihood of
becoming a decent shooter than a SAR does, but you know, neither of
them have great outlooks there. I just think the idea of him as like
he might be your point guard. Someday, he might be your power forward.
Someday he might be both. He just like he's had moments that a
lot of gout. No one really on this list, maybe other than Wemby,
like the jaw droppers. Like, I think he's just been had some
phenomenal athletic highlights that I just can't get out of my brain. His offensive
rebound eleven percent offensive rebounding rate is bonkers, and this is a this is
a crazy number. And I'll give this another stat I'll probably regurge the state
when we do all rookies, so among every player aged twenty two or younger
who's as tall or shorter than Amen Thompson, so six to seven or smaller.
Here's the full list of players to clear twenty points, five assists,
two steals in one blocks per one hundred possession Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan and
John Wall and now pretty good John Wall. Look at you get in there,
John Wall. It's the blocks, great shot blocking guard. John Wall.
Yeah, you want to mention a few guys, there's you know,
a handful that I think we're fairly in there. There's you know, Gigi
Jackson certainly belongs in the discussion here. Uh, Cam Whitmore, had he
played more, could be someone that sneaks into this conversation. I didn't have
pods obviously, so he definitely deserves it. And and that was just like,
I don't know, there's been I probably just don't trust the offensive efficiency
and from him or the ability to generate his own shot. Sar Thompson had
he played more. Derek Lively the second injuries and then kind of the trade
deadline that that shrunk his role a little bit below cool BALI someone who deserves
another mention here, Chiante George. I definitely don't think he's really in the
discussion to be one of the top five rookies at this point, but he's
had his shoulder a pretty complicated workload. In you, Tom I for forgetting
anyone that should probably get a shout out in this rookie discussion. I think
I think we got it, Tomani Kamara. Those are those are black like
those are but not nothing this high end. Are you ready? So there's
only two people to appear on the listener ballot? What when we want in
check two? Because they only I just asked for their winners. Because when
we're taking to town, if that's the criteria that is correct, those are
absolutely no no shout out, shout out to the audience. You guys did
a great job here, all right. We got to go to most improved.
That is our last we do because that is, in fact the last
one that we have. So good call k can do the alphabet can do
process of elimination. Uh okay. So I'm fascinated because I feel like you
talked me into putting this guy number one a little bit. Uh so I
have Jalen Williams number one. Wait, so are you asking me to make
the case for your number one? Big no, I'm just telling you that,
and I want you to explain yourself. Why is he not on your
I will say I stuck he's not going to appear in my ballot because I
stuck to my guns that I'm not going to put a second year player on
here. But my god, he came so close to you, and if
I was going to pick it, it just would have been him, because
it's just like that, how much he's improved, just the off the dribble,
jump shooting, the defense. He might make it all defense team,
Like he's been that good defensively, the passing, the ability to kind of
prop up lineups without SGA. He's I can't say enough good things about.
And look, there's more directionality too to the way he's attacking, Like there's
still that abruptness, but there's more of that deliberation and methodical approach. Yeah,
I think the argument is, like, yeah, it's definitely an uphill
battle because the second year player thing. But I think in his case,
he just has become a different type of player, and maybe that's just maybe
it's more of a progression than like he transformed, because he was, you
know, he was improving over the course of last season as a rookie,
but just like you watch him now and you know he's improved to being a
like one of the best three point shooters in the league. Is volume was
not way up there, but he's forty three percent and he's scored more fourth
quarter points in SGA last I looked, which is like never not going to
be insane. Should trade SGA and rebuild around and get rid of him.
It's just that, like his offensive game to me is like complete because he's
a great he's a now he's a great spot up three point shooter. Maybe
he's not a forty three percent shooter, but I think he's also not like
whatever he was last year, thirty five or whatever it was. He's going
to be a high thirties guy. Off the dribble. He can get to
his spot for and like shoulder his man off of him for a pull up
or a spin and like a turnaround, just like the way that superstars do.
Like that's the you know, pick the guy you want to compare him
to. There's like you hear Kawhi, You hear like some James Harden like
shiftiness, Like I don't know, but he does like mid range individual shot
creation, we need a bucket stuff that superstars do, awesome finisher like super
sudden, explosive athleticism. And then he guards like real guys, Like he'll
guard a lot of like good fourth ones. No he's not, he's not
hiding. It's like they're just this is on team with like lou Dort n
Sga. There's no shortage of good defenders. And like he's the guy that
will go get Yannis or whatever, Zion or whatever it is. He's just
I think to me, Williams is now like a two way star that's gonna
make a bunch of All Star Games and probably some All NBA teams, and
like that just was not there last year, like that that level, Like
you know, we reward teams that we say it's harder to go from fifty
to sixty wins than it is from forty to fifty or whatever. This is
like this is the fifty to sixty win jump, Like this is the hardest
jump to go from really good starter potentially to like this guy might be the
best player on a really good team someday. So that's my case for him,
Like and but then I also if you don't put him on your ballot
because he's a second year guy and like, you should get this much better.
Like I kind of get that. I just think the magnitude of his
growth is like more significant than anybody else I'm we're going to talk about.
To me, I think that's fair. I do think Kobe White comes close,
which is who I went with as someone who toggles between this off ball
and on ball score. And he's gotten so much better as an offensive organizer
as well. When you're looking at his passing, the defense is still kind
of if he there. I went back and forth on whether I should include
him at number one, because I really I'll spoiler now I have Alphern Shangun
at number two. I grapple with whether this was a matter of him getting
better or opportunity, and I do think it's a combination of both. Like
a lot of it is the opportunity, but he got better defensively looking at
his positioning and he kind of look at his decision making on offense, where
we always knew he was a dangerous one on one score, but now he
kind of knows it and he's getting to that mode quicker, and he's handling
double teams better, and so you factor that in with just the production where
he's gonna have someone who's averaging over twenty points and can drive the playmaking of
your entire offense and can I think what separates him from sort of other big
man facilitators is that he can you know, I don't like the Yo Kich
with the Sibonus comparisons, but like he can jumpstart the offense in so many
different ways and from so many different areas of the court, like it begins
as soon as he can grab the rebound, where he can't hostually say that
with a lot of the other playmaking bigs. So he ended up being number
two for me, and he does still qualify for anyone who's wondering why he's
gonna end up probably under sixty five games, but he appeared in sixty before
his season and end the injury, And because those sixty games are more than
eighty percent or whatever of his team season at the point, he qualified,
so that obscure rule like put him there. He could have won the whole
entire thing. Is I'm concerned. I will note though my two my top
two picks would have been Scotty at one and Jalen Johnson at two. Neither
of them qualified, though. Yeah, I had Scotty at one two until
until the injury knocked him out. I have Kobe White at number two for
the reasons you said, like I'm not sure if this guy is gonna be
much of anything too, Like, oh, he's a starting lead guard in
the NBA, that's a hard thing to do. I have Jonathan Kaminga at
three. It's a little bit like the Jalen Williams thing where it's like this
guy can't stick in the rotation for long stretches. And now I think he's
clearly the second. He's clearly the most important long term piece on the Warriors.
Now, if you're envisioning like the post Steph Curry world, he's another
guy that, like you know, talking about the Thompson's, Like athletically,
Kaminga is just on a level that not a lot of guys can get to.
I think he's developed a lot more scoring craft, Like he's can score
off the dribble in the mid range. He's so quick to the basket,
is able to elevate over guys, really good body control. Just like I
think some of this was there. And so this is another case where like
finally he got to play and got the confidence from regular minutes to like uncork
all this stuff. But like, he's not remotely the same guy he was
last year, so I think I think he also, like I don't know
that I believe that some of the other guys on my ballot have Like I
mean, some of these guys are already sort of hired to begin with.
But like I think Kamenga has a star ceiling and that was not like that
wasn't super obvious until this year. I pushed back against the star stuff.
I just the the consistency with him, and just like I still don't kind
of understand what he necessarily is on offense despite the flashes we've seen, And
maybe that's a function of the Warriors personnel and how it shifted in the lineups
around him. I don't think they know yet either, to be fair,
Like I think I think what he what's been true for him from the jump
is that he's real sure that he is a number one on ball offensive guy,
and I think that's been in the way for him, Like that's been
a hindrance to getting opportunities. I don't think the Warriors know yet what they're
gonna do with him. But it's kind of it again. It is like
a Thompson's thing where it's like he's so athletic, you just got to sort
of figure out how this is gonna work. But yeah, I think that's
fair. I just I think this. I'm probably biased. I'm not seeing
it super clearly. I just think I think he has the capacity to be
like a per like a multi time All star, like two way like wing
type guy. But we shall see it. Speaking of superstar ceilings, I've
Duncan Robinson number three. So this is it's probably an atypical choice. But
when you look at this is someone who is undergone like another reinvention where yes,
the shooting and the motion on the perimeter is still there. Now he
is playmaking now. He just has these games where oh, Duncan Robinson's like
five six assists or whatever it is, and it's it's not just catching the
ball and then keeping it moving. It's oh, no, Duncan Robinson put
the ball on the floor, he scored inside the arc. No, he
was able to leverage that pressure he's putting on in defining the open guy.
This is someone who's just like he was almost exclusively, just no, don't
travel inside the arc, just get up these threes to make that type of
improvement. And also, this is where maybe I'm being unfair here, and
it's oh, does he deserve to be sort of a comeback player type thing.
This is someone who looked like he was going to be a detriment the
past year and a half. Now how are they going to get off this
contract? Right? And now it's like, oh, is this one of
the bargain contracts? It helps he's shooting forty percent from three on over seven
attempts per game, but he's also shooting fifty seven and a half percent on
a career high and two point attempts. Again, it's only three attempts.
He's only a two point nine assists per game. But again, like I've
said, there have just been those games where it's, oh, look,
Doungan Robinson has five assists and like, yeah, okay, he came against
the Pistons. But still so this is just someone who has improved so much
and added layers, enough layers to his offensive game where I felt comfortable saying
like we need to recognize that because there's it's almost, yes, the hardest
thing to do is what j Dubb did, or what you know when you
go from really good player or fringe star to actual startup like we're talking about.
This is Duncan Robinson in year six, and he was very much billed
as this one type of player, and now he's just something that's not completely
different, because the crux of that game is still in place, but he's
added a shit ton more and he provided glimpses of it into the playoffs last
year. But now we're through a regular season and it's yes, some of
this has been born from necessity, but some of it just makes so much
fucking sense because now someone who's so dangerous from beyond the arc can leverage what
he's doing as a playmaker even scorer at points inside the arc when he has
the ball. I'm not even like just so, I like, I could
not have forecasted this sort of functional turn from Duncan Robinson. And so maybe
that shock is weighing in here. But when you take out Jalen Johnson and
Scottie Barnes, and when you look at I consider Jalen Suggs and I don't
know if he's yeah, he's hitting his threes, but as he expanded enough
of his game offensively, there's the full court passing. It would have been
nice if Denny Avdya kind of played the way had more of the volume that
he did for most of the season. But it just looking at the crop
of talent, it was I feel like Duncan Robinson has been the most materially
measurably different from wire to wire than a lot of other choices. He's not
on my ballot, but I will say something I'm by the time this goes
up, I will have filed for br giving awards to every team, and
I get to like make one up for the for each team and give it
a name. And my award for the Heat is where did that come from?
Award? And it goes to Duncan Robinson, And it's all based on
what you're talking about of like he's got these ridiculous baseline like smitty fake spins.
He got a star Thompson really bad. It was one of my favorite
highlights this year. Yeah, like this was not a thing he could do
before, and so I think, in if we're not going to just do
maybe this is a good transition into someone we both have on our ballot.
He's fourth on yours. He's fifth on mind' Tyrese Maxi, who's the betting
favorite right now? He seems closer to Shangun for me is four. We
already talked about him. Maxie feels a little too much like the he just
got more playing time thing, which is a direct contrast to Robinson, which
and a lot of these other guys that we have higher. I think this
is why we devalued Maxi is it's like these other guys developed new abilities and
Maxy his numbers are better, but like ultimately, you know, per one
hundred, it's a little better, but true shooting is down like not so
hot without embiid. He's on this ballot just because I think you sort of
have to put him there. But his case is to me different in kind
of a meaningful way than a lot of these other guys. So I agree
with you to some extent, but I do think there's a difference in kind
of the like there's this down shifting part of his game that I don't think
he always has. It just lacks a directionality and sometimes a deliberateness when he's
not going downhill to where can he set up your offense from that perspective,
but just the jumping usage and the raw numbers without seeing his efficiency being submarined
his case, had he been able to like bring the sixers to even some
of them, the respectability without JoBelle Embiid would be a lot stronger. So
I don't view him as an outlier on this bout, but I do understand
what you're saying where it does feel like the meat and potatoes of his game
doesn't look too much difference, but there is to me enough of a visible
difference in the way that he's playing improvement or at least, if you want
to call it, diversification in his game that I'm comfortable having him in my
top four. I think too you He's he's a much higher percentage of unassisted
baskets this year, which is just like that, I mean, that's that's
that matters, because that does speak to like he's having to do things in
a different way, Like he's not being set up. He's not the third
guy playing off of you know, a swing, a pick and roll swing
to a kickout to like a guy's sprinting at him and he's buy him.
It's like he's creating more stuff. I just still the efficiency dip is pretty
significant to me. He was sixty point five percent true shooting last year.
He's down to like below league average now. But but yet, like that's
gonna happen with a larger role. He's on my ballot. I should stop
talking about him, but like it's just it's not quite the same thing to
me. Who's your fifth guy. I'm fascinated to hear you make the case
for this guy, Cam Thomas, which is kind of another player that you
could say, like the Tyres Maxie jump is, Oh, he got an
actual role in his scoring skyrocketed, but he has turned into he's up this
three point clip. This is someone who has been able to draw fouls despite
not getting to the rim at this huge frequency rate. And then I also
think that he has maybe it's incremental or marginal, he's gotten better at making
reads as kind of this passer. I don't think there's been enough improvement,
at least from what I've seen defensively from him. But when you're looking at
his offensive game, I don't think it's ever gonna get to the point where
he's as well rounded as a Tyrese Maxi, where he's well rounded as a
Kobe White I want to make that clear. But he's more well rounded than
he's ever been, and I don't I would take umbrage when people call him
that, Oh, he's just gonna end up being his microwave sixth man type.
He might end up that might end up being his best role. Like
he I think, will get to a point where he can give you more
like this is not This looks like someone who could be better than a Lou
Williams, markedly better than a Jamal Crawford. I think he has. There's
like more of a shiftiness to the way that he's playing, in the level
of difficulty on his shots. Now it's so young, it makes me wonder,
okay, Like it feels like there's a point where you know, at
one of the three levels he can improve a great deal. And then what
if his passing does hit or just gives you a little bit more of the
I don't want to say stout defense, but like if he just gives you
some defense of more defensive playmaking, and that you know he'll be able to
do that better if he does wind up coming off the bench one day.
But you're looking at someone who has a usage over thirty with a turnover rate
below ten, Like, that's just not do you know the other players that
doing that this season are Shay Gilgess, Alexander and Jalen runs In and so
like I know that he's not passing as much as those guys. That's still
really fucking hard. H Yeah, I think I still for him, I
lean more towards It's just he's just playing more like a lot of his per
one hunt you are right, like his assists rate it's up, his turnover
rates down like that, and that matters for someone that is primarily out there
because of his offensive abilities to just like he's the possessions he's he's valuing possessions
more like that. That's a big deal. I think his scoring rate is
like per one hundred it's up, or per thirty six minutes it's up a
little bit. Hasn't been as efficient this year, even though he's shooting more
threes, which helps I to me, I don't know. I guess I'm
less. I'm less in on the idea of him being like a functional defender
h long term. But like, the guy's a bucket. I'm not gonna
knock him. So who you mentioned Adia, that's definitely like I think it
was. You want to see, you want to hear. Let me see
if I can do this in one minute. Give you just the list of
names that don't appear in my ballot that I did consider for this award?
Is that a no? No? Yeah, I thought you were just gonna
go for it. J Allen Johnson already mentioned him. Obviously. I had
Derek White on there, someone I considered I had. I also had Io
de Soon MoU from Chicago in addition to having Kobe White on there. I
Max Struce from Cleveland. I also had Isaacacorro from Cleveland. I think you
could have made a case for in excuse me, in Denver. Peyton Watson
just like off the low baseline that he was kind of working from. Ky
Cunningham in Detroit is another name that I gave series consideration too. Did you
have Haliburton I did for Indy, Yeah, I did. I did think
about him. I also thought about aaron Ne Smith as well from Indy Golden
State. I did have. I did have Kaminga the Clippers. Did I
have anyone from No, I don't have anyone jotted down from the Clippers,
the Lakers. I think the Ammeel Russell had like a small case. Austin
Reeves might have had some semblance of a case, but I didn't give them
too much consideration. I did not have anyone from the Grizzlies on there.
We know I had Duncan Robinson from the heat ended up there. Didn't have
anyone from Milwaukee in Minnesota, Na Keith, Alexander Walker, naz Reed.
Those are two guys that I think you could make the case for as well.
In New Orleans there's Herb Jones definitely deserves like an automable mention shout out
in this discussion. In New York, Jalen Brunson for sure, I think
like that someone, Isaiah Hartenstein, Dante DiVincenzo, just the way the pressure
he's able to put on defenses with his his shooting. Now in Okay,
See, I think Sga has another case. He was my pick last year,
but he has a case again. There's Jay Dubb there as well.
Orlando. I think Jalen sugs I probably I really thought about putting him on
my ballot. I think I mentioned that before. Tyrese Maxie and Philly for
sure. No is there anybody in Phoenick Grayson Allen. I think he improved
enough defensively and as a shooter. Nobody from Portland, Sacramento, Keegan Murray
second year player type guy Kean Ellis certainly obviously deserves mentioned there. I did
have Devin Vessel from San Antonio. I know you were kind of disappointed,
and you know, I did look at his numbers though again after we talked
about that, and he has gotten meaningfully better kind of like across the board.
So that's because he's a future Hall of Famer. But anyway, Scottie
Barnes and in Toronto definitely deserves to mention. And I guess you could kind
of throw like if you wanted to, are j Barrett before he was dealing
with the personal issues the way he was playing in Toronto versus New York and
then and then Danny Avda in Washington made a great deal. Is there anyone
on Utah like I guess just Jordan Clarkson because it was passing or most improved
player love, but which isn't terrible anymore? That helps uh and then conseext
and just like I don't know if that's most improved player type love, but
he he just had a hell of a season back to back to Pete keVs.
Consext In. Uh. The audience though, oh yeah, what do
we got here? Who did they have here? Their ballot is more reflective
of yours, by the way, I think for the most part. But
uh, they had Kobe White at number one, Tyres Maxie at number two,
j dub at number three, Al prinshang Gun at number four, and
Sga at number five, so they were in. They actually subscribed to that
idea that I think he could deserve some love in there also receiving votes from
them. Jalen Brunson was on the ballot they had there, was Duncan Robinson
appeared there to Grayson Allen actually got multiple votes. Tyre's Halburton was there,
Herb Jones got some love. Jalen Johnson, by the way, would have
finished in the top five of the audience ballot, but he just didn't meet
the criteria, so I didn't want to throw him on there. Yeah,
I think that's pretty thorough. I mean, this one I think warranted the
most discussion because it's so hard to like. There's so many different ways.
I'm not sure that I've ever deviated from the betting favorite. This late in
the season. No. I keep thinking about that too. It's like and
I want to look for reasons to have MAXI higher, but I just can't
get there. I'm very interesting how it pans out. Do you think he
ends up winning it? I think he is going to win it. I
think I think, I think he's like, I don't know what the actually
I do have it right here. As of today, he's minus three forty.
Kobe White's second at plus two thirty. Jadab is like way out and
then Cominga's fourth with like no chance with j dubs odds. Maybe you should
throw like a plus four thousand. Yeah, it just seems like Maxi's gonna
get it. I think MAXI like came into the year with the moment and
for most improved and then just that never changed. You know. Wow,
we're on the stat padding. Let's do a couple of guests of players before
we get out of here. I have one queued up. If you would
like me to start hit me. This is from Austin. Again, clude
number one. I was drafted in twenty ten. That's it. That's clut
number. Do you want to take his dad, Tyrek Evans It is not
Tyrek Evians. I don't think that's the right year. Clue number two.
I am one of three players from my draft class who are still currently playing
in the NBA slash NBA G League. Wait twenty ten. There's only three
guys from twenty ten left? Is that right? That's crazy? Well I
guess okay, sorry, yeah, go ahead. Clue number three. I've
played for eight different teams, but more notably, played for one of these
three teams three different one of these teams three different times, three different times.
That should be a giveaway. Uh, okay, I don't have it.
Clue four. In twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, despite having an optimistic
interest from teams in free agency, I decided to go play one year in
China for a high at the time four million dollar contract. Nineteen twenty went
to China three different teams or played for one team three times. That should
be like I should have it off that, right? I feel like you
should have it off of based off who's giving this as well? Oh you
said this is from Austin. Yeah all right, Well, now I gotta
think about it a little harder. What pacer you will get it on?
Clue seven? Oh okay, Well, let's just keep going then Clue five.
One of the three currently active players in the NBA slast G League for
my rookie class was actually my teammate my rookie year. My teammate rookie year.
Now, I'm trying to think of current pacers, and that's clearly the
really mistake. Correct, I will say that who's been on the pasers three
times? That feels like you know this? I should shouldn't I? Why
can't I get it? Uh? Okay, sorry, go ahead, Clue
six. Like several other NBA players, I attempted my shot at a rap
career and even put out several songs with Lonzo Ball. I did not know
this, Lance Stevenson, correct, you knew that. I didn't know that
about the The final clue, by the way, was while while having many
meme worthy highlights, my most memorable event was when I blew into lebronzi Or
during the Eastern Conference playoffs. It's just one of my favorites. I still
refer to that. That's I love that one. All right, I will
give you. Let's give you Kmart. I mean one of these is like
impossible, Okay, I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you one.
I think you'll get uh clue Number one. I was a shooting guard drafted
in the setecond round in two thousand and five, straight out of high school.
I was a shooting guard draft in the second round two thousand and five,
straight out of high school. We may have done this guy before,
j R. Smith. No good guess though, include number two. As
a rookie, I averaged six points a night, starting three games and playing
in forty nine. It's probably not going to help you. No, keep
going. As a sophomore, my scoring average jumped up to sixteen point five
and I started fifty three games. They got nothing. In two thousand and
eight, I signed a six year, sixty six million dollar contract extension,
but three months later I injured my deltoid ligament and suffered a severe ankle injury
after a scooter accident. My screw up was that I told the team that
I was injured playing pickup basketball. The team didn't like that answer. Would
you say, no, just not Jay Williams. No, No, that
was like a motorcycle. Yeah. Team didn't like that answer, so I
was suspended thirty games without pay by the team. Still finished the season averaging
nineteen points a game. I don't. I'm latching onto the scooter accident too
much. I mean, that's I thought you could get it on that one.
I forget it might have been publicized as a moped as opposed to a
scooter. If that helps it all? All right, ready, clue file.
Yeah. The following year, my team fell ass backwards into an all
time great who just happened to also be a lead guard. But I still
averaged twenty five points a game. Can read that one again. The following
year, my team fell asked backwards into an all time great who just happened
to also be a lead guard. But I still averaged twenty five points a
game. Why don't I know this? Six years, sixty nine million does
a lot of money for two thousand and eight, two thousand and eight.
No, you're gonna get it now. This is like I might as well
just say the name, uh the clue six. We were and this is
from Mike, by the way, if I didn't say that, uh,
we were a formidable duo, me and this other lead guard. But ultimately
the Bay Area was only big enough for one of us. In Monte Ellis,
Yeah, as I was traded for Andrew Boget Warriors became a dynasty,
and I continued to be the Skittles of NBA empty calories farm man. I
was so high on Monte Ellis, like circa two thousand and seven. I
thought that guy was going to be so great. Are you ready to get
into the mind of a cycle path? Oh boy, okay, let's close
it out with this one. Well, I'm gonna give you we have a
bunch from Mike, so I have given you lead one more after the clue
one. I was a non American non lottery pick in the early nineteen nineties.
Draws and Petrovitch, That is incorrect. Clue number two. My best
career, My best career statistical year was in my sixth season on the Eastern
Conference team that drafted me, where I averaged fifteen points, five boards,
and forces while also finishing sixth in Defensive Player of the Year Non American non
lottery in the early nineties. Yes, okay, all right, what's next?
Clue three. I went on to being a pivotal player for three NBA
title winning teams as a versatile three and D forward and a consummate team player
three title winning teams non American non lottery early nineties. Three title winning teams.
Oh man, there's only so many of those. Okay, what's the
next clue? Clue four? I have one of the least interesting transaction sections
on Basketball Reference. However, the one time I was traded, it was
with a Hall of Famer and a first round pick for Chucky Atkins, Jermaine
Jones, Chris Mim. So this guy ends up on the Lakers, Chuckie
Atkins, Chris Mim Oh man, I'm annoyed now. I feel like I
should know this. Okay. Five? How many clues are there? Two
more? Okay, I actually missed on the like I would have gotten it
on this one, but I missed one of the films that are here.
During my pro career, I appeared in a trifecta of basketball films. Blue
Chips, Eddie and He Got Game, Blue Chips Eddie and He Got Game.
Well, so Blue Love the movie Eddie where Willpi Goldberg coaches the Knicks.
That was like, oh yeah, I watched Blue Chips a ton.
Blue Chip is one of those ones that was like on HBO during the summer
when I was home from school. So, who's in Blue Chips? Penny
Hardaway's in blue chips, Shack is in blue chips. But there's a non
I feel like the non American is like potentially, is it like someone from
Canada, because I'm thinking of like European guys. I don't have it.
What's what I got? Two more clues? One more clue? Oh boy?
Okay, final clue with a with a sick five o'clock shadow grant?
Which is he had? And I got it? Stop it's Rick Fox?
That is correct? Okay? It was Yeah, a great, excellent red
herring with the non American thing. Oh okay, now I'm trying to think.
So he won, Okay, yeah, I guess he got the Lakers
titles. Yeah he was there. Okay, all right, all right,
good one. Let me see if I have one more for you just in
case here. Oh man, this one is so hard. These people are
just out to get you. I'm just from This is from Rubik scal Oh
boy, are you ready? Yeah? Okay. One. I was the
first NBA All Star to be born in Canada. Two. My shot blocking
prowess earned me the nickname the Big Cat at Kentucky. My two hundred and
sixty eight career blocks as a four year Wildcat led the Kentucky career Blocks leaderboard,
even though they only make it to the one hundred and fifty third spot
on the NCAA D one Blocks leaders list, so that I got nothing.
Three. I had four good seasons in the NBA, averaging close to ten
rebounds and ten points ten points per game at my peak Nada all right,
Canadian big Cat nickname went to Kentucky number four. Never want to shy away
from a fight, verbal or physical. I could dish out the trash talk
and the physicality that the two thousands NBA demanded. I once told a reporter
that KG was a talker who can't back it up on the court. Interestingly
enough, I was an enforcer in a suit at the time with the Miami
Heat, the very definition of a talker who can't back it up on the
court. I don't remember the KG thing. Oh alright, ready, clue
five. Yeah. I made my only All Star game in two thousand and
four, averaging ten point three points, thirteen point six points or ten point
three rebound, sorry, thirteen point six points per game, and one point
two blocks. So thirteen ten and one All Star four. I don't even
have like a and they're on the heat at this point, Yes, I
think so. Well, it was on the heat. He was on the
heat the previous clue. I'm not sure where though four All Star season came.
I feel like I'm not even gonna have a guess on this one.
Yeah, so to the you outa let's see at clue six. I was
all set to go places the following season when I broke the ring finger in
my right hand in November. Was never quite the same player, even though
I did have one productive year at Milwaukee with Michael Red, averaging nine point
two points and nine point five rebounds in Milwaukee can rebound played with Michael Redd,
I don't I don't remember that either. He did bounce around a lot
so last last clue. After a couple of seasons spent bouncing around and three
more as a full time enforcer and part time backup center for Miami. I
finished off my career in Toronto in twenty twelve, the first Canadian player to
play for the Raptors. The first Canadian player to play for the Raptors.
Why don't I know this one? He bounced around twelve? I think a
Raptor's biggs. Yeah, it's the only I got here through the Canadian thing.
I vaguely remembered the Big Cat nickname for some reason. I could picture
like his basketball reference page maybe and the Kentucky thing. But like this guy
is I mean you you've heard the numbers. He's like a low double double
guy that like was tough. I don't even have a guess. Give it
to me. Does the name Jamal mcglore mean? Oh man? Wow?
Pretty deep? You've had some deep cuts today. I got a lot of
deep cuts. All right, let's wrap up with one from Mike. We'll
do a Bill Walton segment next time, okay. Clue number one. I
was a lottery pick in ninety seven out of Colgate by Golden State, one
pick before Tracy McGrady. This is a Donald Foyle. Wow. Not a
lot of Colgate picks in the NBA. Other clues. I played ninety nine
games through my first two seasons in the league, starting one. During this
ban, I averaged three points four boards. Clue three. I played in
seventy six games in year three, starting fifty nine. DA, what's another
interesting clue here from Mike. Over the next couple of seasons, my numbers
remained relatively steady, which led to mesuning a six year, forty two million
dollars contract in two thousand and four. Man, that was like peak Warriors,
I mean in the worst way. The Donald Foyle era off the court.
I was a political activist and a poet. I did not know he
was big, very passionate about campaign finance reform of Donald Foyle. It's one
of his big issues. In twenty thirteen, I wrote my first children's book
was Clue ten and then Clue elevens. In twenty fourteen, I've started as
the Warriors community ambassador. That was too quick, So we're gonna do another
one that he has here. Clue number one. Born in Toronto but raised
in the Bahamas. I hold dual citizenship. Hmmm, I should be able
to get this one. You should born Oh is it Klay Thompson? No,
Okay, go ahead. I attended North Carolina in the eighties and early
nineties. Born in Toronto, attended the eighties and early nineties. Okay,
I don't have that. Clo three. I was drafted in the first round
in nineteen ninety one by the Celtics. Is this Rick Fox again? Yeah?
That's what? How do we get too? Rick Fox questions. Clue
eight was a good thing to go when I purchased an esports team but left
the team after my co owner made several racist comments. Clue nine. I
might be better known for being in every romantic comedy than I have my time
as an NBA player. Wasn't he married to Vanessa Williams? I think I
think that was one of the first she was when she was like Miss America
one year or something. I'm pretty sure he was married to Venessa Williams.
Oh who seven was good. My moved to the Lakers helped launch my second
career, as I started getting major roles in ninety seven playing a basketball player
turned inmate on Oz. I also was on Fairly Odd Pawer in One Tree
Hill during my time in the league. Since I retired, I've been on
Green Leaf and Law and Order. I've also been in movies like Holes and
Navy Seals Versus the Humpies. Neither neither. Rick Fox one mentioned getting uppercut
by Doug Christie just right in the jaw. Remember that that was? Oh
man, that was a good one. You would you like to take us
out of here? Do you want? Should we do some more? Rick
Fox trivia before we go or are we good? That's see? How many
different ways can we give clues about Rick Fox? Everybody? Thanks for your
contributions, especially to everyone who voted in our awards polls. Super fun to
get some crowdsourced contrast to our pick, so appreciate that. Appreciate the guest
players, Appreciate the trivia. Appreciate your listenership to grow that rate, review,
subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies, spread the word.
As always, close with a shout out to the one only Frank Milatina.
In an apology to Jared Allen, look