1 00:00:15,359 --> 00:00:20,199 What is crack a lacin fellow Thermo nuclear a efforts. I am Dana Valley 2 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:24,640 coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. It 3 00:00:24,719 --> 00:00:31,280 is the first of our two part in Sharpie twenty twenty four NBA Awards podcast. 4 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,640 We're gonna do the actual awards and then we will get into on a 5 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,719 separate podcast. We'll have all Defense, All Rookie, All NBA, and 6 00:00:37,759 --> 00:00:39,920 then we'll probably go through I don't know if we'll split that up. We'll 7 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,439 go through our win total over unders see what we missed on which team's exceeded 8 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:48,520 expectations. But we're dealing with the eight year end awards that matter most unless 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,079 you don't care about clutch Player of the Year, Executive the Year, and 10 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,600 Coach of the Year that I want to say, Coach of the Year is 11 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:55,880 a big one. So if you don't care about clutch Player, Executive of 12 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,920 the Year, there's six awards that you should care about before we get to 13 00:01:00,359 --> 00:01:03,880 Oh and also an exciting element we did if you remember of our discord or 14 00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:07,439 follow us on Twitter or on YouTube, we have our listeners. They picked 15 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,640 their own ballots, their own winners, and so we will have those results 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,640 at the end of each category that we have after Grant and I reveal our 17 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,640 picks. All of our ballots are going five players deep. We'll get into 18 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:23,680 I'm sure other names they only go three players deep. I think for every 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,760 award except MVP, officially they go three players deep. MVP goes. We 20 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:30,799 have five players deep because as a visual aid on YouTube, that just worked 21 00:01:30,799 --> 00:01:34,519 out better for the setup that I concocted. First and foremost, though, 22 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,519 Grant, how the heck are you? I'm doing terrific and I should I'll 23 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:42,200 all take this one. The reason we're not doing all NBA and all defense 24 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,439 and all rookie is because I did not prepare for it, and that's my 25 00:01:46,519 --> 00:01:49,920 fault. So I feel I'm feeling chagrined. That's how I'm feeling right now. 26 00:01:49,959 --> 00:01:53,599 You should never feel chagrined. And it just means that we have content 27 00:01:53,680 --> 00:02:00,159 planned for the following week that'll be fun. These I will say, there's 28 00:02:00,159 --> 00:02:02,000 probably like a couple of things of mine because we're recording this about a week 29 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,640 before the end of the regular season, some stuff could change, but like 30 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,560 for the most part, these are just in sharpie and We did record a 31 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:15,800 pretty extensive podcast on our criteria previously, like a month or two ago, 32 00:02:15,039 --> 00:02:17,680 so we will try. We're gonna try and keep this pace because we've laid 33 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:21,319 out our base cases and by now, like you know, when you get 34 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:24,319 to Rookie of the Year MVP, like you kind of understand what the deal 35 00:02:24,439 --> 00:02:28,319 is there. So that's not to say this won't be nuancedter fun, because 36 00:02:28,319 --> 00:02:30,240 we always do make it. But just as a just as a head's up 37 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,560 there, I'm gonna let you I might need a minute to throw it up 38 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,800 on screen, but I'm gonna let you go choose where where we go. 39 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:43,039 You did have us start off with, interestingly enough, last time, the 40 00:02:43,159 --> 00:02:46,680 MVP race first, So is that Are you gonna do that again? I 41 00:02:46,719 --> 00:02:49,199 think we go with the big one first. I think we do it again. 42 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,199 Let's go MVP. Uh all right? I mean that's also I mean, 43 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:54,520 if we're being honest, that is like kind of one of the easier 44 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,680 ones. But let me let me throw that bad boy up ONNCH. Look 45 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:02,280 at that not anty at all, but I love it. So how do 46 00:03:02,319 --> 00:03:05,319 you want to do that? Do you want to? So I'm starting We're 47 00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:07,439 starting with the big award. I think we just go start from one right 48 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,840 like and just move down because that's how the discussion is gonna flow anyway. 49 00:03:10,879 --> 00:03:15,680 So there's well, so I think even in certain instances, this being this 50 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:20,199 being one of them, by the way, like you can kind of just 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,719 talk about like if there's just names in blocks that are going to appear that 52 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,319 I have, there's a is there a very clear top four to you when 53 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,120 it comes to the to the MVP race or no, like beyond clear. 54 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:36,360 It's just it's I don't think you can put a fifth person in there in 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,960 any kind of serious way, and really like there's, well, there're the 56 00:03:40,039 --> 00:03:43,599 guy in first I think is in a tier by himself, and then you 57 00:03:43,639 --> 00:03:47,919 could probably put the next three together. But but for sure there's four real 58 00:03:49,479 --> 00:03:53,120 MVP caliber candidates, and then after that it's just kind of we're going to 59 00:03:53,159 --> 00:03:57,319 pick a fifth guy. But fifth through like ninth or tenth, I think 60 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,280 is almost like you can't really argue about it. So let's let's do this. 61 00:04:00,599 --> 00:04:03,560 You reveal your top four, I'll reveal my top four, and then 62 00:04:03,599 --> 00:04:09,080 we'll get into the nuances there in that order. Okay, perfect, My 63 00:04:09,199 --> 00:04:16,160 top four are Nicole Jokic, Sga, Jannis and Luca. That is, 64 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,199 uh, those are those are the same four locks that I have. My 65 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:27,519 order differs though in the sense that so our top two are the exact same, 66 00:04:28,079 --> 00:04:30,879 but I have Luca three and Yannis fourth. I think there's been some 67 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,759 slippage from Yannis defensively lately, and just Luca has been a man alive on 68 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,079 the offensive end. J to me, though, let's start at the top 69 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:43,120 here in a race that I think I wouldn't fault you at this point if 70 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,079 you made the case for Luca or Sga, but in a race that should 71 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,480 be closer, he just feels like the pick to me, yeah, I 72 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,759 think. So what it comes down to for me just a couple things like 73 00:04:54,879 --> 00:05:00,399 there are advanced catchalls that have SGA as more valuable. Still some the stuff 74 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:01,879 I pulled up pulled together. You know, it's a couple of days old. 75 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:08,240 But just as an example like it dunks and threes estimated wins, which 76 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,279 is a cumulative stat has Sga ahead of Jokic, and in fact, Luca 77 00:05:12,319 --> 00:05:15,240 and Yannis are ahead of Yokic by that metric. So I don't know how 78 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:19,000 much stock you put in that for that reason, you know in EPM, 79 00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:23,560 which is more of a rate stat also from Dunkstan threes, SGA is ahead 80 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,279 of Jokic again, you know, but then it just pick a different one 81 00:05:27,399 --> 00:05:30,920 like vorp and estimated raptor. Yokic is first to me, like whatever, 82 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,839 The two things that comes down to are one. I do think the massive 83 00:05:34,879 --> 00:05:40,439 net rating swing that Jokic has, which does account for like how bad Denver 84 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:46,160 is without him. Uh, It's it's persuasive to me because it indicates value 85 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,480 to that specific team. SGA, you know, again in on an individual 86 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:56,000 stats based case, like is for sure in the conversation, I guess you 87 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,600 could pick him depending on what you value, but the value to his team 88 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,560 is just greater for Jokic. And then like then it gets fuzzier and it's 89 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:06,160 just like, well, Jokic has a level of control over the game that 90 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:11,279 no other human being has, Like there's no solve for him where there might 91 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,120 be for Sga. It's just like it's just like he's a different it's a 92 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:20,240 different category, I think. So like, I still it's comfortably Jokic for 93 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:25,959 me, even though I acknowledge there are some statistical arguments that favor SGA and 94 00:06:25,959 --> 00:06:28,399 and to be honest, like a couple of the other guys further down the 95 00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:33,879 ballot, I guess I struggle with when you go with SGA to say that 96 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,600 the value he brings defensively exceeds the gap that still exists between him and Nicole 97 00:06:40,639 --> 00:06:43,800 Jokic on offense. As a score, SGA might have him beat, Like 98 00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:46,839 Nicole Jokic is a hell of a scorer himself. I said this on our 99 00:06:46,879 --> 00:06:49,319 last podcast. I won't beliebor it, but like, there's no better optimizer 100 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:53,360 of the talent around him in the league than Nikolejokic. And you mentioned the 101 00:06:53,399 --> 00:06:58,319 net rating swing. Here's why that's especially persuasive to me. We're not talking 102 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,639 about a team that's not so even in previous years, which that again, 103 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:04,160 it's a fair case to make it. It propped up Yokic's I think, 104 00:07:04,439 --> 00:07:09,600 was that his first MVP or maybe a second whatever, This is the title 105 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,160 favorite or no worse than the second most likely team to win a title. 106 00:07:13,519 --> 00:07:17,240 And he has the largest just net ratings swing in the league among players that 107 00:07:17,279 --> 00:07:23,800 actually play. So we're not talking about the difference between a really crappy team 108 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:30,279 becoming good. We're talking about him elevating the Nuggets into a tier where only 109 00:07:30,319 --> 00:07:32,600 one other team in the league exists right now. And so to me, 110 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:35,079 like that is just if you want the case to stop there, that's fine. 111 00:07:35,079 --> 00:07:38,639 But I'm with you on the level of control of he exerts over a 112 00:07:38,639 --> 00:07:42,360 game, and there's just the way he thinks it. There's just there's You've 113 00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:45,519 said it, there's no solid for him. Yeah, and then I guess 114 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:50,879 so would you would you put Sga like number two with the bullet and then 115 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,399 maybe Luca and Janis are are a tier below. We're not necessarily tiering, 116 00:07:55,439 --> 00:07:58,399 but I kind of view those three. You know, you could put those 117 00:07:58,439 --> 00:08:01,000 three in any order, and I wouldn't. I would really fight you too 118 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,279 hard on it. I think I'm with you there, But I will just 119 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,480 note like when you say, and I'm not a fan necessarily of this discussion, 120 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,279 because it's like it's kind of saying the best two way player in the 121 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,639 league is who, And it's like, well, what are we really saying 122 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,319 here? It felt like a way to just give Kawhi Leonard at one point 123 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:20,399 his flowers when Lebron was the best player in the league. Yeah. So, 124 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,279 but Shay has a case as the best two way player. It's it's 125 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,399 him, There's Giannis. Who else is part of that? Like Kawhi? 126 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,759 I mean you would put Kawi there. I mean I think I probably had 127 00:08:31,799 --> 00:08:37,279 Kawhi fifth the last time we did this. I and like, honestly, 128 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,320 I could put him there again. You want to give our fifth guy just 129 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:43,840 because or you want to stick with these four for a wh who's your fifth 130 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,240 guy? Like I have Tatum, And like even saying that, I feel 131 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,399 like I'm acknowledging. I'm just like best player, best team. I'm best 132 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:56,279 player, best teaming this thing. But I think like you could definitely talk 133 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,679 me into Kawhi. That gets harder with how shitty the Clippers have been for 134 00:09:00,759 --> 00:09:03,559 like the better part of the last like I don't know month plus, you 135 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,120 could talk me into Like you could put KD there. I guess there was 136 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:11,279 a minute where Haliburton was there before the hymn. Seemed like it felt like 137 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,960 the top five was sewn up at one point, but no, I went 138 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,559 with Tatum. I just you know, he's in that chunk of like the 139 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:26,120 next five to seven players and just the success of his team. He's had 140 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:28,360 a good year. I don't know if it's his best year, but I 141 00:09:28,639 --> 00:09:31,960 don't know. I didn't really think too hard about it because like, this 142 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:37,840 is such a top four thing, So I think that's a very I think 143 00:09:37,879 --> 00:09:39,440 that's a very reasonable case. There are three players to me that I think 144 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:45,879 should be in a conversation for top five. There's Tatum, there is Kawhi 145 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,519 Leonard, and then there's the player who I picked. Would you care to 146 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,120 venture a guess as to who that player is. I'm not gonna. I'm 147 00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:56,519 not gonna bullshit you. I'm looking at the sheet that has your player on 148 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:03,679 it. So it's j Jalen Brunson. There is he has so like this 149 00:10:03,799 --> 00:10:09,600 is like and this shit matters when you look at the level of the difficulty 150 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,879 on what he's had to do with the Knicks this year because of injuries or 151 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,720 just in general, because they're often still whether you have Julius Randall, even 152 00:10:16,759 --> 00:10:18,320 if you have og Ananobi or when you had a manual quickly and RJ. 153 00:10:18,399 --> 00:10:24,440 Barrett, like it is so dependent on him. There are seventy plus players 154 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:28,639 who've played at least two thousand minutes this year. Only Bam DeRozan, KD 155 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:33,440 Brandon, Ingram and Nicole Jokic, by the way, that's hysterical that Jokic 156 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,519 is there post lower shot qualities. And then there are there are over four 157 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,799 hundred players who've appeared in at least twenty five games this season. Only five 158 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:48,679 match the share of Brunson's made buckets that go unassisted from both outside and inside 159 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,840 the arc, Luca Shay, James Harden, Damian Lillard and fred Van Fleet. 160 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,720 That was actually a surprise to see FEV pop up there. And the 161 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,279 fact that Jallen Brunson is just averaging twenty eight six and a half unreasonable efficiency 162 00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:05,519 is wild. Turnover eight is still elite. This is the thing that really 163 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:07,679 swung it for me. When he's on the court, the Knicks offense is 164 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:13,080 in the ninety third percentile. When he's off they're in the fourteenth percentile. 165 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,240 That drop, that drop is matched by only one player in the league, 166 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:20,559 and it's Jokic. I'm not saying Jalen brunts is the second best offensive player 167 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,360 in the league. And when you get into all NBA, I think it's 168 00:11:24,399 --> 00:11:28,919 a different discussion because MVP is more about value and impact, where I think 169 00:11:28,919 --> 00:11:33,159 with All NBA you can look at like more individual just stuff Whereas this is 170 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:37,559 the way I frage about Tatum has a stronger case than Jalen Brunson for First 171 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:41,519 Team All NBA. I think Jalen Brunton has the stronger MVP case. And 172 00:11:41,519 --> 00:11:43,519 that's just why I'm putting here. And if you're gonna say, oh, 173 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,039 so you're penalizing Jason Tatum because his team was healthier, he has a better 174 00:11:46,039 --> 00:11:50,759 supporting cast, I'm not penalizing him. I'm giving Jalen Brunson a nod for 175 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:58,000 uplifting what would be an offensive atrocity without him into an elite offense statistically, 176 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,200 even when it doesn't look pretty with him on the court. And I would 177 00:12:01,279 --> 00:12:05,159 argue I would need to see the date on this. I bet you there 178 00:12:05,639 --> 00:12:07,519 there might be three or four players who have seen more double teams than him 179 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,279 this season. Right No, you said uplift. The thought that came to 180 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:16,679 mind when you mentioned Brunson and the context of his team is like he has, 181 00:12:16,519 --> 00:12:20,759 I would be hard pressed to find someone that has a heavier lift night 182 00:12:20,799 --> 00:12:24,360 to night than he does, just because of the talent surrounding him, because 183 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:28,360 of the way the Knicks play, and like I mean, there are definitely 184 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,120 if you care about the numbers, like he's right there between like Lebron and 185 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:37,399 Durant and just just like a decimal behind Kawhi in estimated wins, Like he's 186 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:39,919 way up there in EPM, he's way up there an estimated raptors. So 187 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:48,000 like it's not even just independent independent of his contextual value to the Knicks, 188 00:12:48,039 --> 00:12:52,399 And look, this is MVP, there's value there. So like his situation 189 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,519 does matter, I think more to your point here than it does in all 190 00:12:54,639 --> 00:13:00,600 NBA, Like he's got the statistical case next to the like where is this 191 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,360 team without him? Case? So I think that's a totally defensible pick there. 192 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,200 Uh are you ready to see what our audience chose? I am excited. 193 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:11,559 I hope the top four are there. That's all I care about. 194 00:13:11,759 --> 00:13:16,039 Yeah, so Jokic the hard one knock listeners. Audience followers chose Jokic for 195 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:20,879 one, SGA two, Luca three, Tatum four, and Yannis five. 196 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,960 Tatum at four surprises me even though I did put I put him at five, 197 00:13:26,039 --> 00:13:28,960 but uh, Kawhi Leonard also received some votes. I think there were 198 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,399 some votes for Kevin Durant as well. Jokic was the overwhelming winner here. 199 00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,799 It wasn't even close. Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, 200 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,960 like, what was the last straw pole? I think he had like eighty 201 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,720 five of one hundred first place votes among polled voters. That's I mean, 202 00:13:43,720 --> 00:13:46,399 that's just I think I think he's gonna win it running away, which is 203 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:52,000 like it's too bad for Sga and Luca and Yannis, like wrong, wrong, 204 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,759 wrong stretch of years to have awesome seasons. Okay, cool, all 205 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,159 right, Well, least we got the top two at least in lockstep. 206 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,600 Which award do you want to go to? Now, let's do Defensive Player 207 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,080 of the Year. Well, you're really just knocking out all the I like 208 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,360 to top load it. You know, you lose what what's the statistic? 209 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:11,679 You lose a huge percentage of listeners and want viewers after the top. So 210 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:15,919 let's just give the people what they Let's give the people what I want. 211 00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:22,440 How about that I want? Yeah, take it, take it. So 212 00:14:22,159 --> 00:14:24,720 let's do the same thing again. Do you want to? Well, I 213 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,159 think I think we both can just reveal our first one. We both have 214 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:33,440 the same number one guy, which is Rudy Gobert, and I don't I'm 215 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,960 just trying to think of like can you come up with a case for someone 216 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:39,759 other than Rudy Gobert. I think you're stretching really hard. You got to 217 00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:46,399 kind of want to not give it to him, So, like, let 218 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,960 me ask you a question. As I was putting this together, it encouraged 219 00:14:50,039 --> 00:14:52,919 me, Like, is it fair to say that for Defensive Player of the 220 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,440 Year your team to win it, your team almost has to be a top 221 00:14:56,519 --> 00:15:01,879 five defense, Like it just because if you're that good, you know, 222 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,799 that's that's the level you've got to be at to win Defensive Player of the 223 00:15:03,879 --> 00:15:09,200 Year. Is like you alone are you know, think of Gobar in Utah 224 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:13,559 for all those years, Like you are the reason that this defense is as 225 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:18,320 great as is as good as it is, and like that level has to 226 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,320 be super high? Is that fair or the I mean they're generally speaking right, 227 00:15:22,679 --> 00:15:26,679 So like I think that's how you some of these further down ballot guys, 228 00:15:26,679 --> 00:15:31,120 how you justify moving them out. But that's just what makes Gobert's case 229 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:33,960 he is. He is not the sole reason, but to me is clearly 230 00:15:33,960 --> 00:15:37,919 the biggest reason the Timberwolves have all year been like far and away the best 231 00:15:37,919 --> 00:15:41,919 defense in the league. All the room protection numbers, are absurd, Like 232 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,000 forty eight percent field goals allowed inside six feet. That's the best of anybody 233 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:52,080 that defends any number of shots, ninety eight percentile knocking down opponent rim frequency 234 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:58,080 when he's on the floor, Like opponents shoot forty three percent against him anywhere 235 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:00,919 on the floor, which is absurd. He can defend out on the floor. 236 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,519 Yeah, the way he's been that that was like a big not a 237 00:16:03,559 --> 00:16:07,200 swing factor. But I think a big part of this is just like he's 238 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,840 not just someone who operates in this base defense, like he has come out 239 00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:15,480 and recavoc in those situations as well. So did you I mean this wasn't 240 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,679 I tried to really, I wanted to make it seemed too obvious, so 241 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:22,120 I did a bunch of research and wanted to make sure that it's clearly Gobert. 242 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,799 I just think it's like it's it's it's as clear to me as MVP, 243 00:16:26,039 --> 00:16:30,679 maybe clearer. Were you as confident in your choice your second, your 244 00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:33,840 runner up? Excuse me, no, I was not. My number two 245 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:40,799 is Victor women Yama, And I'll just say my number three was bam. 246 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:45,240 I I could flip flop this like over the next week if I thought about 247 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,519 it more. But Wemby just you know, he's got the advanced metrics case. 248 00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:55,159 He's like sixth. Last time I looked in defensive estimated plus minus allows 249 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:59,399 fifty three percent inside six feet on eight field goals. Defense that allows forty 250 00:16:59,399 --> 00:17:03,119 five percent all over the floor actually takes a bunch of charges. He's drawn 251 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:06,960 nine charges, which is the most of any of these big guys we're gonna 252 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:11,640 consider. And just like the disruption, the ridiculous block totals, I mean, 253 00:17:11,799 --> 00:17:15,319 like in terms of like the the eye test, like I mean, 254 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,480 I don't know what else you gotta say. Yeah, there's like so I 255 00:17:19,519 --> 00:17:23,440 have Wemby on my ballot, but he comes in at fourth. So I 256 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:29,079 will show you my I have at a bio number two, Anthony Davis number 257 00:17:29,079 --> 00:17:33,839 three, and then Wemby number four. The Wemby stuff is just like it 258 00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:37,200 goes beyond. I mean, he leads the league in stocks and then blocks 259 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,480 per game like by a comically large margin, so that that stuff is great. 260 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:45,240 But there's like a real IQ there where he can show restraint and patience. 261 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,880 But then he's also just terrifying, and he he really just butchers the 262 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:56,640 entire He butchers the existence of entire offenses just by virtue of being on the 263 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:02,359 floor. Yeah, and that's the guys that don't attempt layups like on breakaways 264 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,640 because they know he's behind them, Like that's nobody else does that. He 265 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:10,960 fucks up their entire process just by virtue of existing. And so I like 266 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:12,680 he And by the way, it's not you know, everyone can look at 267 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:15,839 well, look at where the spurs are Defensively, they're in the bottom ten 268 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,119 points a lot. They're in like the eightieth percent tile with Wemby on the 269 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:22,200 floor. And so I think it's perfectly reasonable to have him. I think 270 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:23,640 there's a lot of debates after go bear. For me, it's pretty open 271 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:29,000 ended. Bam adebio. I feel like over the years, I've gotten more 272 00:18:29,039 --> 00:18:34,319 appreciative of the players that are juggling so many different things. And Cooper moorehead 273 00:18:34,559 --> 00:18:38,599 over at heat dot Com wrote about all the different coverages that Bam has had 274 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:44,359 to handle this year, whether it's zone, whether it's drop, the stuff 275 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:45,880 that he's doing, like he's not switching nearly as much, like that was 276 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,160 always something a hallmark of his. Now he's playing in drops so much. 277 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,680 Now he's mastered, you know, his rid protection numbers aren't great, but 278 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:55,599 he's played a lot better statistically in drop and when you watch the heat, 279 00:18:55,920 --> 00:19:00,359 what can make their defense so elite or so Stingy's just bam. He doesn't 280 00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,480 really have any weak points anymore and he covers up for just so much that 281 00:19:03,559 --> 00:19:07,400 I appreciate that. And then it's the same thing with Davis to where I 282 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:15,279 think Wenby's physical and even like IQ gifts, they help him be so impactful. 283 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:21,039 But Davis is like the stuff he does where he has to be all 284 00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:22,559 over the floor. It's not because of his physical tools that he's able to 285 00:19:22,599 --> 00:19:26,079 be in all these places at once. It's because he will excuse me, 286 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,880 it is because of his physical tools, which is like he has to move 287 00:19:29,920 --> 00:19:33,279 around more and cover up for more than Wemby does. And that's when you 288 00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:37,000 look at their kind of defensive supporting cast, they might be comparable. Or 289 00:19:37,039 --> 00:19:38,440 I think you could argue, like, is the second best defender on the 290 00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,480 Spurs better than the second best defender on the Lakers, And the answer could 291 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:45,599 be could be yes, they're The Lakers are in the seventi fifth percentile of 292 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,559 pointslat per possession with Anthony Davis on the court, and I think just the 293 00:19:48,599 --> 00:19:52,200 breadth of the assignments that he that he covers, and then you're looking at 294 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,920 just someone who has played more minutes this season in total, that really matters 295 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:59,319 to me. And so I know that the Lakers defense is tapered off a 296 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,480 little bit. Nan Davis has these weird on off splits, but I just 297 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,039 I look at him and what he's able to do, and when you watch 298 00:20:06,079 --> 00:20:07,640 him, it's just similar to Bam for me, where it feels like he 299 00:20:07,759 --> 00:20:11,920 has to adjust or account for so many different things, where a lot of 300 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,960 the times Wenby's doing the same but not doing the same maybe important because the 301 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,839 stakes are lower, or just because he's so gargantuan and long that it just 302 00:20:21,319 --> 00:20:23,960 it feels different. So I'm not trying to penalize him there again, I 303 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,720 think he's a perfectly reasonable selection at number two. But looking at at a 304 00:20:27,759 --> 00:20:33,079 Bio and Davis and the workload that they shoulder and their ability to cover up 305 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:37,240 for so much, to handle so much, to try all these different coverages 306 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:41,079 or have to do all these different coverages, and then just combine that with 307 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:44,559 their general uplifting, That's what kind of brought it home for them for me, 308 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:51,079 So I really struggled with Auto Bio and Wimby, like I think I'm 309 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:52,880 gonna leave it how it is. But Auto Bio at two is totally justifiable, 310 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,480 and I just want to say, like to him, the knack you 311 00:20:56,559 --> 00:20:59,920 here is, well, he's not a rim protector on the level of these 312 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,400 other guys in this in this class, And I think what's born out in 313 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,400 the numbers is that he just does it in a different way by being the 314 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,279 best point of attack defensive center in the league and that we've seen in a 315 00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:15,920 really long time, Like as a switch defender, there is not a matchup 316 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,920 that you know he cannot handle. So like he deters riom pressure by just 317 00:21:19,960 --> 00:21:25,599 cutting it off like out on the perimeter. So and again, like opponents 318 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,160 shoot like four percent less often at the room when he's in the game, 319 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,079 which is like right there with you know, so you know it's that's a 320 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:34,400 better number than Webbin Yama for example, puts up in terms of like percentage 321 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,039 of shots of the rim deterred basically Go Bears on his own level, it's 322 00:21:38,079 --> 00:21:42,519 like a five percent decline. But to just Auto Bio, like I I'm 323 00:21:42,559 --> 00:21:45,799 not persuaded by the knock that you hear the most, which is like he's 324 00:21:45,839 --> 00:21:49,440 not a shot blocker. He's not like the towering guy. He just does 325 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,319 it different differently. And for Davis, I have Davis fourth on my ballot. 326 00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:57,720 Some of the on off stuff is is like a little it gives you 327 00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:02,720 pause because the Lakers are more of like a midpac defense. Uh, the 328 00:22:02,759 --> 00:22:06,079 on off stuff says they're not that much better with him. You got it 329 00:22:06,160 --> 00:22:07,960 again, this is where you always got to go to. Opponents shoot like 330 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,400 five percent better from three when he's on the floor, and that's just skewing 331 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,599 all the numbers that I don't think he has anything to do with that. 332 00:22:15,839 --> 00:22:18,759 So and he's an eye test guy too, Like the way that he can 333 00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:23,200 dominate games, uh and not be attacked on switches makes guys just not shoot 334 00:22:23,279 --> 00:22:27,599 on drives like he's just I think David has to be the best like recovery 335 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:32,240 defender in the league still to where it's like if you need if he's if 336 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,599 he's on the inside, but you need him to run out and can test 337 00:22:33,599 --> 00:22:37,799 a shot in the corner like that was lifted up from the break or vice 338 00:22:37,839 --> 00:22:38,960 versa where it's like, oh, he was out on the perimeter now he 339 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,279 needs to get back down to the rim to contest or dissuade that shot. 340 00:22:42,680 --> 00:22:45,960 Yeah. Uh, let's so our fifth guys'll do you want to give me 341 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,799 yours? Or should I go here? Uh so, yeah, why don't 342 00:22:49,799 --> 00:22:52,559 you go first? All right? So I this surprised me. But when 343 00:22:52,559 --> 00:22:56,039 I was just doing the numbers and just thinking about it, I have Chet 344 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,640 Holmburn at five, which is wild because that's two rookies now, and all 345 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,480 you ever here his rookies. I mean he's a quote unquote rookie, but 346 00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:04,720 all you hear is rookies can't defend. They're never positive as you're lucky if 347 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:08,359 they're break even. He's just kinda he does a lot of the things that 348 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:14,400 the players we've already discussed do. Uh. He's super mobile, really good 349 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,039 shot blocker, is like gets dunked on but goes up to block dunks all 350 00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:23,359 the time. Is just is here for it rotates quickly a lot of the 351 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,359 same kind of like holds guys all over the floor to like a forty five 352 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,960 percent field goal percentage. That's great. He holds it way down to fifty 353 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,960 three percent inside six feet. He's just like he's you know, he's not 354 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:41,079 as as like spectacular as like Webbin Yama. He doesn't move like out of 355 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,240 Bio does, but he kind of does a little bit of all those things. 356 00:23:44,799 --> 00:23:48,559 Uh So, I just I think I think he's done enough. You 357 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,920 might knock him for defensive rebounding, but part of that's just because he's all 358 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,720 over the floor to more than a lot of these other guys are. But 359 00:23:55,880 --> 00:24:00,720 I just think I think he's been maybe the biggest reason other than I guess 360 00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:03,680 Sga has to be considered as you know, the most disruptive okay, see 361 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:07,640 defender. But I think Chet is the best defensive player on the Thunder in 362 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,519 terms of like total impact, even with lou Dort too. They got a 363 00:24:11,559 --> 00:24:14,839 lot of them, but I think Chet matters the most. That's it. 364 00:24:15,599 --> 00:24:18,920 That's an interesting pick. I doesn't feel I just I guess I want to 365 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:22,559 say I probably strongly disagree with it, where it kind of feels like I 366 00:24:22,559 --> 00:24:26,680 don't think he's responsible for enough outside of his I don't want to call his 367 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,200 comfort zone like outside of the base big man stuff, And he's not nearly 368 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,279 as dominant is he is. He shaping the defense in the same way that 369 00:24:33,319 --> 00:24:37,400 Goberts, but again, I mean, the numbers are undeniable, and he 370 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,000 does he slides his feet for a big man really well. I think the 371 00:24:42,079 --> 00:24:47,039 issue with him is it's like, how different is he really from like Jared 372 00:24:47,079 --> 00:24:51,440 Allen, from like what Yannis can do from I don't know. There's just 373 00:24:51,759 --> 00:24:53,640 a lot of other bigs that are similar impact, but I don't know. 374 00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:56,400 It just felt it felt right. But again, to me, this is 375 00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:00,079 a little like MVP, where there was a top four I think, and 376 00:24:59,839 --> 00:25:02,799 then and then after that you could kind of go a lot of different directions. 377 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:04,519 I did go a different direction. Can you guess who it is? 378 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:12,119 Uh, it's our guy. It's just the ultimate disruptor. The pick sixes 379 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:17,839 are cool, but the assignment difficulty he shoulders is massive and he needs to 380 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:21,079 you know what I'm doing, Defensive player of the Year and less Again, 381 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:22,880 unless you're just as dominant as you are as a rim protector as Gobert, 382 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,640 it's I value guys who can also kind of shut off the water at the 383 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,880 source at a bio can do that. Davis can do that. When he 384 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,559 can do that, uh, Snuggs does that, and just his ability to 385 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:40,720 do it without fouling in droves and he's just he's a threat at every level 386 00:25:40,759 --> 00:25:44,160 in every capacity where it's oh no, you can't really throw an entry passer 387 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:45,559 or a kickout even though you're not being defended by him, because he will 388 00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:51,359 just teleport and erase those from existence. Uh. I think he is. 389 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,839 There's a lot of moving machinations in Orlando that accounts for their defense, but 390 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,119 he is just the the engine that drives everything. To me, and I'm 391 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,519 actually just based off the all defensive stuff I've read and listened to, I'm 392 00:26:03,519 --> 00:26:08,720 surprised that he hasn't gotten more first team consideration or even back into the ballot 393 00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,240 defensive Player of the Year consideration. I mean I was. I think I 394 00:26:11,319 --> 00:26:14,559 read a couple of things and there were a couple like he didn't even make 395 00:26:14,599 --> 00:26:18,000 it all defense team, which I thought was fascinating. If we had positions, 396 00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:22,519 I think you're obligated to put him on your first team. That to 397 00:26:22,519 --> 00:26:25,960 a good point. I think like that's an and like, well, we 398 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,279 can talk about some of them further down the ballot. Like you've got Alex 399 00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,880 Carusso, you've got Derek White, You've got like, I don't know, 400 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:37,960 pick your Thompson. You've got Chris Dunn, but like Suggs has played a 401 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,279 ton relative to some of those guys, and I think it's just like the 402 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:47,279 most complete backcourt defender in the league right now. Everything you said is right. 403 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:52,599 He's also just like impossible to screen. He's super physical and without felt 404 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,720 like he's physical and like in a way that like is effective without doing the 405 00:26:56,759 --> 00:27:02,039 Patrick Beverly thing where you've got three fouls on the quarter. So I think 406 00:27:02,039 --> 00:27:04,240 he's the best guard defender in the league this year. I just think big 407 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,319 guys matter more. Still, so we haven't really talked about this. The 408 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:12,720 position thing. It's gonna I mean, we'll put our teams together later, 409 00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,839 but it's gonna be hard for some guards to crack it unless we just decide 410 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,960 to do positions, because why not. You know, what do you make 411 00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:22,160 of that? By the way, I think it was I was listening to. 412 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:23,640 I think it was a low post where you said that Bill Simmons is 413 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,440 just gonna build his teams the old way and to account for positions. Do 414 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,920 you like the position list switch or no? Here's the problem. If we 415 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,559 do that, either Bam or Wemby or Davis is not on a team, 416 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:41,599 which is like that feels wrong unless you really fudge it. I mean, 417 00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:45,480 those guys are all centers, like full stop, but you'd have to fudge 418 00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:48,839 it and be like, I guess Wemby is a power forward and you know, 419 00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:52,680 so it doesn't just because we got to a point where like you were 420 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,160 allowed to call Joel and Beater Nicole okiccha forward and it was just like, 421 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,680 so that's what you're doing. Then you know, like like what is the 422 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:04,119 point? Well, the thing is like, for all NBA, I think 423 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,359 positionless makes more sense than it does for all defense, just I mean, 424 00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:12,119 I don't know, I don't know if that is logical, but that's just 425 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:17,839 just how I feel because I think the best defenders tend to be big guys 426 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:22,440 just because the impact is greater as a big guy than It's just like if 427 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,519 you have a league average center defensively, that's worse than having a league average 428 00:28:27,559 --> 00:28:32,720 guard defensively, you know, and the you know, the reverse is true. 429 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:38,000 So with all NBA, it's like, I think going position less opens 430 00:28:38,079 --> 00:28:45,200 up more possibilities, where going positionless for all defense kind of closes possibilities because 431 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:48,920 it's harder for someone like Sugs to make it. Yeah, I don't know 432 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:53,279 it's it's funky. I guess like I it would almost be more fun to 433 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:56,599 pick by position, honestly, because then we could talk more about like who's 434 00:28:56,599 --> 00:29:00,720 the best wing defender, who's the best point of attack guard defender, who's 435 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,240 the best protector. I'd probably be more in favor of it if they added 436 00:29:03,279 --> 00:29:07,680 a third All Defense team if you want to keep yeah, yeah, no, 437 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,559 I'd be done with that because then you're gonna get you only have to 438 00:29:11,599 --> 00:29:15,079 fudge, like one of these centers, one of these top four. Interesting 439 00:29:15,119 --> 00:29:18,240 note, and I don't want to spoil our all eventual All Defense discussion, 440 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,319 but at this rate, if Wemby is where he is, he will be 441 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:25,400 the first rookie in NBA history to make first team All Defense. We've had 442 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,359 rookies make second team All Defense, but we've not. Tim Duncan didn't do 443 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:32,839 it. That's insane, that's crazy. Uh. But like, I mean, 444 00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:36,599 he's he's gonna right, I think he's gonna Well, I guess we'll 445 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,880 see. There were a couple surprises on the audience ballot, so Go Bear 446 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:42,799 at one, wenb at two, so they were locked up with you Herb 447 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:48,839 Jones at three, Anthony Davis at four, and then Derek White and Kantavius 448 00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:52,319 called the Pope were tied for for fifth. I think we there might have 449 00:29:52,319 --> 00:29:56,000 been a way of Nuggets fans that that voted. I'm not here to say 450 00:29:56,000 --> 00:30:00,680 a bad word about KCP. I love KCP, herb I get I but 451 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,200 like again, if there's positions, I think he's a first teamer, but 452 00:30:04,359 --> 00:30:07,880 since there aren't, I just I can't quite get him there. But I 453 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,000 mean, he's would you say he's the best wing defender of this season? 454 00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:15,079 I'm trying to think who else i'd even put up there. I guess if 455 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:19,920 you're like not counting Sugs or Derek White as like wings, that yananobe because 456 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:25,200 I mean, he's not gonna qualify. So yeah, I mean you could 457 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,640 say Jade McDaniels. But I feel like there's been like a little he might 458 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,359 have a second team case, but it feels like there's been some slippage there. 459 00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,039 I agree. Yeah, I mean, I look, I like the 460 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,880 variety of the fan of the of the of the votes as opposed to ours. 461 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:42,599 But uh yeah, all right, Look, we were in lockstep at 462 00:30:42,599 --> 00:30:47,599 the top at least for at least as far as my ballot's concerned. Where 463 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,480 do you want to go next? Oh? Man, should we let's let's 464 00:30:51,519 --> 00:30:53,839 do let's do clutch player. I'm gonna pivot and just get this one out 465 00:30:53,880 --> 00:31:00,680 of the way because this is a stupid award, it is, right, 466 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,240 I mean, I guess it's not like one that I'm super passionate about. 467 00:31:03,359 --> 00:31:08,640 No, I don't know if I'm like angry about it. I'm just I'm 468 00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:15,480 curmudgeonly. So all right, Yeah, this is like the criteria for this 469 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,400 one is just you dig into the clutch numbers. But there's a level for 470 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:21,039 me, and I gave into it a little bit, but then it still 471 00:31:21,119 --> 00:31:25,480 ended up being names that I think most people would consider. There's like the 472 00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:30,039 anecdotal element where you're totally dame time being an actual thing is is what I'm 473 00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:34,279 saying. So, uh, who did you have as your as your Well, 474 00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,319 actually we both have the same number one guy, So I'm just gonna 475 00:31:37,319 --> 00:31:41,319 reveal him right now to Martin Rosen Again. They might as well just rename 476 00:31:41,359 --> 00:31:44,440 this the Demarta Rosan Award. Yeah, I mean, he has the anecdotal 477 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:48,160 case you're talking about, plus the numbers, Like we also have the same 478 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:51,920 number two guy, which maybe put him up there since I'm going to reference 479 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:56,440 him, all right, I'll do that then, So yeah, we will 480 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:00,200 have Steph Curry at number two. Curry actually has four clutch points as of 481 00:32:01,759 --> 00:32:05,119 That's the other thing with this award is it's hard to not just go to 482 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,359 NBA stats and start looking at like who's played the most clutch minutes, who's 483 00:32:07,359 --> 00:32:09,960 got the highest plus minus in the clutch, who's made the most shots. 484 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:15,240 It just becomes a very statistical thing. But DeRozan has the anecdotal case because 485 00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:19,160 you just can envision him hitting game winners all the time, and he has 486 00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,119 these flurries like laden games that where he's just you know, scoring eight points 487 00:32:22,119 --> 00:32:25,039 in the last couple of minutes like things like that, and his ability just 488 00:32:25,079 --> 00:32:30,599 to get to the line in those situations is mind melting. The league high 489 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,759 sixty four clutch free throws made, Dan, That's like, I'll give you 490 00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:36,920 one better. This was, by the way, I think this is like 491 00:32:37,119 --> 00:32:40,160 and both Rosen and Steph pop up here in the final two minutes of one 492 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,720 possession games. So where the differentials three points are fewer, H Steph Curry 493 00:32:45,799 --> 00:32:49,960 leads the league. It made shots. Demarta Rosen is number two yeah, 494 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:53,920 but demart Rose has forty one free throws in the final two minutes of one 495 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:59,880 possession game. Wow, that's fucking nuts. Just a foul machine that's in 496 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,599 credible. Yeah. So like, and he's shooting, I mean, fifty 497 00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:05,119 percent from the field, doesn't shoot a lot of threes, but he's made 498 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:08,079 half of them, and he's making eighty seven percent of the ungodly amount of 499 00:33:08,079 --> 00:33:12,519 free throws he gets. So like Steph, I think, you know, 500 00:33:12,799 --> 00:33:15,759 he's got like more threes made than the next two guys combined. In the 501 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:20,599 clutch, the Warriors are like, this is the other thing. The Bulls 502 00:33:20,599 --> 00:33:24,440 are like plus ninety one last I looked in DeRozan's clutch minutes, but also 503 00:33:24,839 --> 00:33:29,119 like some of the other guys, the Bulls just their whole team, they're 504 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,960 they're clutch plus minus is really good. So I don't know what to do 505 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:35,480 with that. But the Warriors are like plus eighteen in STEP's clutch minutes, 506 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,720 and they were negative for a long period during the year. I don't know 507 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,880 what to do with that, because it's just, you know, he's got 508 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:44,680 what does he have to do with that? He's making every three he takes 509 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,640 and scoring the most points like it's clearly something else that is hurting the Warriors 510 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:51,839 clutch net rating. It's not him. I guess you'd point to some of 511 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,799 his turnovers maybe, but not enough to move the needle. I don't know 512 00:33:54,799 --> 00:33:58,200 you have anything to say about those guys or you want to give your number 513 00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,279 three. Uh, we can go to number three, which apparently it was 514 00:34:01,319 --> 00:34:06,400 different from your number three. I have Look, he's gonna win MVP. 515 00:34:06,839 --> 00:34:09,920 Name is Nicole Jokic. I think understeadily when you look at specifically the past 516 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:14,960 like half decade or so, one of the most underrated clutch players in general. 517 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,360 Uh, here is everybody. And it's kind of a spoiler because some 518 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:22,800 of these other guys will peer on my list. But there's like he just 519 00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:27,320 has in the in just regular clutch minutes, he has eighteen assists to go 520 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,000 along with forty one made shots. And do you know, do you know 521 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:36,079 every other player in the league to match that number of assists and made shots 522 00:34:36,119 --> 00:34:38,519 in clutch play? Ooh is one of them? Kobe White? There is 523 00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:44,719 nobody. There's only Joki trick question damn it. It was just like that's 524 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,440 and like the splits are fine. Thirty eight point one percent in the clutch 525 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:52,840 from three shooting over sixty percent on two's thirty three or forty one at the 526 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:57,400 foul line. That's eighty and a half percent. Man is just a fucking 527 00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:01,840 machine. I don't have Jokicic at three. I'm not gonna change it. 528 00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:05,039 I probably should change it. I have Dame at three, but I had 529 00:35:05,039 --> 00:35:07,159 a Yokic stet that I found too, which is hilarious. H you said, 530 00:35:07,199 --> 00:35:10,519 fifty eight percent in the clutch is what his field goal percentage is. 531 00:35:10,559 --> 00:35:15,039 I think he's over sixty percent from two though. Okay, so his I 532 00:35:15,119 --> 00:35:19,480 just had him at fifty eight point six percent, like field goal percentage old 533 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,960 school number. That's better than basically everyone who plays any significant clutch minutes except 534 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:30,920 for the one and only Jalen Williams, who is shooting shooting. I'm gonna 535 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,239 get real close to Mike sixty nine percent from the field in the clutch, 536 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,800 fifty eight percent from three on thirty nine total shots. He is seven of 537 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:44,760 twelve from deep. Jalen Williams could win every award if they the Thunder would 538 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:46,599 just let him cook. Uh Anyway, Yeah, I have Dame at three. 539 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,519 I don't know what you need to say, he makes clutch shots, 540 00:35:50,559 --> 00:35:52,960 like he hasn't been as accurate as some of these other guys, but the 541 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,400 bucks are you know, plus seventy eight in one hundred and thirty four clutch 542 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,719 minutes per Dame, He's got twenty six clutch assists, like he's just right 543 00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:06,880 there. So after that, I have Jokic at number four, and I 544 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,000 feel terrible about it, but I'm not gonna change it now. Yeah, 545 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:13,360 so I ended up having game at five with Sga at four. He feels 546 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:17,079 like he has more anecdotal victories this year like than anybody else, which is 547 00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:21,199 big moments, remembering big shots that he's hit. It is kind of like 548 00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:23,639 Damian Millard's season has been so uneven, so the fact that he is ranked 549 00:36:23,679 --> 00:36:25,559 so like could win. If you want to vote for him to win this 550 00:36:25,559 --> 00:36:30,880 award, I'm not really gonna give you a ton of pushback, but like 551 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,440 these two have been. I mean, when you adjust the baseline so that 552 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,199 you're not just at Jokic's level, but here's here's everyone who's made as many 553 00:36:38,199 --> 00:36:42,840 shots and dished as many assists in the clutch as Dame and Shay, and 554 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,039 it's those two in Jokic are in their own company. I will say Lebron 555 00:36:45,159 --> 00:36:47,960 comes close. He's hit one fewer shots than those guys. I actually considered 556 00:36:49,039 --> 00:36:52,719 him to throw him into the top five, but because like his ability to 557 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:57,119 draw fouls too, but I don't didn't. But both Shay and even Damian 558 00:36:57,119 --> 00:37:00,599 Lillard fifty four free throw attempts in the clutch, made fifty two of them. 559 00:37:00,599 --> 00:37:05,159 That's ninety six point three percent. That's like pretty bonkers. So the 560 00:37:05,199 --> 00:37:07,320 fact that they're able to you see them change their play style. But the 561 00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:12,519 fact that these guys are able to score all these different levels, and unlike 562 00:37:12,559 --> 00:37:15,480 de Rosen, who I still think he deserves to win this award, like 563 00:37:15,559 --> 00:37:20,079 he's not the every level score that Damian Lillard and Shay Gilich Alexander can be. 564 00:37:20,159 --> 00:37:22,159 And they also maintain, just like the Martin Rosen, their ability to 565 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:27,840 get to the foul line. These dudes have been absolutely unreal in the clutch 566 00:37:28,119 --> 00:37:30,960 this season, and you I mean like they all have the the plus minus 567 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,760 statistics to support it. But speaking of like the plus minus stuff, it 568 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:37,840 is why by the way, I'm excited for you to reveal your fifth place 569 00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:42,079 guy. Yeah, it's Kobe White, and it's just like he has a 570 00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:45,800 league high plus one oh three in a league high one hundred and eighty three 571 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:49,760 clutch minutes in a league high twenty eight assists in the clutch. The shooting 572 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,559 numbers aren't as good. He's like forty five percent overall, thirty percent from 573 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:55,280 deep, making eight over eighty percent of his free throws. But like, 574 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,000 I don't know, it's something like this is a small sample size award by 575 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:01,760 definition, So I think maybe it made sense to me to go with the 576 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:07,079 guy who has the largest sample of the small sample, and just he's played 577 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:10,239 the most and his plus minus is the biggest. It's hard to divorce him 578 00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:15,800 from DeRozan, and like even like Vucevich has a good look like so just 579 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:17,159 like if you're on the floor for the bulls late, it's hard to know 580 00:38:17,159 --> 00:38:22,440 who's doing it all. But I think White just sheer volume uh and and 581 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:27,920 he's clearly the prime facilitator if DeRozan is the prime scorer, like White is 582 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:30,760 generating shots for everybody else in the clutch, and that matters too, So 583 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:35,920 I thought I'd just throw him up there. The So I was a little 584 00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:37,920 like I put together my ballot before I went through the results of what we 585 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,480 got from the audience. I was a little bit surprised that they were an 586 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:46,079 exact lockstep with me when he came to the names Wow, Sga at two, 587 00:38:46,199 --> 00:38:52,280 Step at three, four, and Dame at five. I'd feel validated 588 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,960 for the most problems. Either you're you're a bigger influencer than you thought because 589 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,039 you've just created it's a testament to how smart our listener and followers are, 590 00:39:00,159 --> 00:39:04,719 I guess, or how wrong we all collectively are together. But for the 591 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,280 five names on your list, show up plus all five of them, Like, 592 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,599 that's and this isn't like the MVP, where the race is just a 593 00:39:09,639 --> 00:39:15,599 little bit more even though they're not set criteria, it's less ambiguous overall than 594 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:19,079 Clutch Player. Yeah, I agree, it's I mean, you know, 595 00:39:19,639 --> 00:39:22,719 this is one where you could pick a deeper cut and just because it's super 596 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:27,599 easy to just overlook anyone that doesn't have an absurd plus minus in the clutch 597 00:39:27,639 --> 00:39:30,400 like you kind of just filter those guys out. But we did have a 598 00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:32,920 lot of votes by the way on this that said not picking someone because this 599 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,400 award shouldn't exist too. That's my those are my people, all right, 600 00:39:37,519 --> 00:39:40,039 let's do it. Let's do the next one. Do you want to bang 601 00:39:40,039 --> 00:39:43,760 out Executive of the Year since that's just next over on the sheet here, 602 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,119 that's my favorite. I'm just kidding. Yeah, just you love transactions, 603 00:39:47,199 --> 00:39:52,760 you love the salary cap. This one has not really well, that's not 604 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,679 true. I did bring someone in that I did not have even on my 605 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:02,159 down ballot considerations. Last time we did these, I think we, oh, 606 00:40:02,199 --> 00:40:06,280 we don't agree on the top. Well, we're pretty close obviously. 607 00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:09,880 Number one Brad Stevens, Right, like the Celtics team that he put together, 608 00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:15,480 the trades they made were bold, theoretically thinned the team because they traded 609 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:21,239 like four rotation guys for two. But it's just like the team that this 610 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,960 this team has already won sixty games, and it would not have done this 611 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,440 if they hadn't made the changes they did. So, you know, I 612 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:30,320 don't know who else you would possibly consider a number one here. Yeah, 613 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,199 and look, it wasn't a no brainer. The Porzingis trades specifically wasn't a 614 00:40:35,199 --> 00:40:37,760 no brainer. I think you look after the fact and the Drew Holiday trade, 615 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:39,519 it's okay you do that. But I saw someone saying, I guess 616 00:40:39,519 --> 00:40:44,000 because of what happened with Marcus smartt Robert Williams the third this year that they 617 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,639 got all these guys for passing peanuts, and it's like, I mean, 618 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,880 no, those dudes weren't important when healthy, and the fact that they weren't 619 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,519 healthy this year and Smart didn't play well, I get it. These weren't 620 00:40:53,559 --> 00:40:57,960 easy decisions to make, and so to do that and to just have a 621 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,639 team that's like first all time and net rating, I think at this point 622 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:04,920 or whatever it is he is, I think he's the only answer here, 623 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:07,719 unless you're gonna look at it through like very Homer goggles. I don't know 624 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:13,840 who else you you go with. We do have the same like two and 625 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,639 three, but we have them in a different order, So I'll throw those 626 00:41:15,719 --> 00:41:19,840 up there. I have Rafael Stone at two. You have Leon Rose at 627 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:22,840 three. I have Leon Rose three. You've Leon Rose two. I have 628 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:28,000 Raffael Stone. You have Rafael Stone at three. It can't go in either 629 00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,360 order, but I do ultimately think we kind of have the factor in that. 630 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:34,440 Okay, Ojia, nobody's injured. Even though that trade made a ton 631 00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,079 of sense, and the Dante de Vincenzo contracts still looks great, deducing bride 632 00:41:37,159 --> 00:41:42,920 contract looks fantastic. The trade you made for going up by Donovich and Alec 633 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:45,679 Burks that hasn't panned out. But then how do you juxtapose that with well, 634 00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:47,639 Quentin Grimes is done for the season. They couldn't hit a three for 635 00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:52,719 Detroit. I just look at what Stone did, like Diame and Thompson pick. 636 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,400 I guess that was technically a no brainer, but given the immediate aspirations 637 00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:59,400 they had, it wasn't necessarily that. But beyond that, you have the 638 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,119 Dylan Brook getting Fred van Fleet, even having Jeff Green for you in the 639 00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,599 locker room. This is a team and I think I like the move they 640 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:12,000 went and they got Steven Adams, and like for next year's purposes, that's 641 00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,159 going to be something that that helps them. And so I think you look 642 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:19,039 at this team and what it turned into this year. I do wonder if 643 00:42:19,079 --> 00:42:22,679 I'm maybe giving him some credit for stuff that falls outside this calendar, but 644 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:27,239 like the Rockets that I mean, like even you have to include hiring Ima 645 00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,800 Udoka in here, just because they turned into a top five defense. Yeah, 646 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:36,039 I think that's right. I wonder if maybe I'm giving Leon rose Like 647 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:39,000 some some credit for things outside of this year, right, because I think, 648 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,920 what is so the Deuce McBride contract. Do you know what that is? 649 00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:45,760 No, I don't know, I don't remember. So it is they 650 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:51,000 signed him basically immediately after the trade. They signed him to a three year 651 00:42:51,079 --> 00:42:54,800 extension that is going to be worth I think it's three years and eleven million 652 00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:59,679 is the number that he signed signed that three years than thirteen million. I 653 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:01,760 mean, he wasn't playing at the time, and by the way, it's 654 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:06,599 declining, so it'll be at its highest at four point seven million next year 655 00:43:06,639 --> 00:43:12,079 when he's three point three percent of the salary cap. That contract looks like 656 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,760 this is I'm not we have to see how he plays next season. But 657 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:17,840 if you're ranking the best value contracts for teams not players, obviously in the 658 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:22,239 NBA, he's gonna be up there because he's played out of his mind right 659 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,400 now. And then what he's given them over the last several weeks worth like 660 00:43:25,519 --> 00:43:30,280 ten million of that. I think you also need to credit him. I 661 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:32,360 almost wish I had him too now because even thinking back to like the way 662 00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:37,239 they negotiated the Josh Hart extension, so like him not signing a brand new 663 00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:40,960 contract that really inflated his salary this season that'll start to kick in next year. 664 00:43:42,159 --> 00:43:45,880 It helps you bring in these other moving pieces, specifically having the money 665 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,800 to make sure they're gonna sign Dotte DiVincenzo. So just a lot of good 666 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:52,480 business. But just looking at the way that the trades panned out, Yeah, 667 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:55,719 it's the availability of Ogi Ananobe factors into it. And so I still 668 00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:59,920 would make that move if I'm the Knicks, but I just gave I gave 669 00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:02,719 Stone the nod because the Rockets, the progress they made from this season to 670 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:07,599 last is really it's a testament to Yeah, some of the talent they already 671 00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:10,960 had, but like there were a lot of levers that were pulled to bring 672 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,679 in new players, bringing a new coach that are responsible for as well. 673 00:44:14,679 --> 00:44:17,800 I also Cam Whitmore being brave enough you could say it was a no brainer. 674 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,920 How many gms passed on Cam Wymore? Well, like nineteen of them, 675 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,239 right or whatever? Was I think? I think, if you're gonna 676 00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:25,960 knock Rose at all, which I don't want to do, I have him. 677 00:44:27,039 --> 00:44:30,800 Third, it's like what happens if brook Lopez doesn't back out? Like, 678 00:44:30,599 --> 00:44:32,440 yeah, it's like did you know what? You clearly didn't know what 679 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:37,760 you had in Shangun well that but then like flip it again, like I 680 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,679 don't know, maybe Jalen Green does this all year if he has a floor 681 00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:43,760 spacing center most of the time, like you don't know, like it might 682 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:45,960 have been. But still it's like he wanted to bring on Jalen Green to 683 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,360 know that like months October through January or always. I feel like I'm skewing 684 00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:55,800 too far towards like I'm almost like apologizing for being so skeptical of Jalen Green, 685 00:44:55,840 --> 00:45:00,000 and I'm going too far now. I'm like I think i I'm over 686 00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:04,039 my skis a little bit on him in ways that make me uncomfortable. I'm 687 00:45:04,039 --> 00:45:07,719 gonna give you my four and five because I'm very interested to hear about your 688 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:12,599 your four. I am Sam Presty and Kobe Altman really quickly with the Kas 689 00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:15,519 and Kobe Altman. You look at just the roster they built where it's almost 690 00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:20,280 been better like to navigate injuries than it has been at full strength, which 691 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:22,800 is why kids awkward when maybe we should do Coach of the Year next. 692 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:24,760 When you talk about JB. Bicker Stephan, it's he's done a better job 693 00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:29,199 coaching this team when they're shorthanded versus when they have all their main guys all 694 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:31,599 what does that mean? Max Struce was a good was a great signing. 695 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:36,639 Craig Porter Junior was an excellent fine. Bringing Karris Lavert back was not a 696 00:45:36,679 --> 00:45:39,360 no brainer decision. And he's in the sixth Man of the Year discussion, 697 00:45:40,119 --> 00:45:44,400 so I think you need to credit him for that. And it felt like 698 00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:49,039 this year there just wasn't not to you know, poop poo all over his 699 00:45:49,039 --> 00:45:51,000 his case here. But I just feel like there weren't a ton of great 700 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:52,719 options, like if you wanted to go with the Clippers front office for the 701 00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,119 hard and trade or vice versa with Morey for opening up the cat flexibility and 702 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:01,079 h in Philly I did. I've very much to consider Michael Winger slash Will 703 00:46:01,119 --> 00:46:05,440 Dawkins and Washington just to really rip that band aid off. I just don't 704 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,360 think they did enough of the trade deadline. And I still maintain the hornets 705 00:46:08,559 --> 00:46:12,199 some of those picks that they got, like does miss Cumpjack, like come 706 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,639 in here? How does this work? But I think Altman is someone who 707 00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:17,159 deserves not there. And then Presty, I know a lot of this stuff 708 00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:22,679 that Gordon Hayward acquisition has not been gangbusters, but the fact that he is 709 00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:27,280 now traded first round picks for these like higher end swaps. When you're looking 710 00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,239 at what happened with the Dallas trade of the deadline specifically, I think it's 711 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:36,159 a very shrewd piece of roster building. And that's just in addition to like 712 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:40,440 everything that they've already built up and that like even like being able to use 713 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:45,679 mesage to go get Gordon Hayward and to bring that guy into where you have 714 00:46:45,119 --> 00:46:50,400 I guess that veteran with size who can theoretically handle the ball and defer. 715 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,719 I like the stuff a lot of what they've done. Sorry to stumble my 716 00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,760 words here. It's been on the margins, but it has been very creative 717 00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:02,760 and I think ultimate super important. Yeah, so my four I didn't have 718 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,719 anywhere near the ballot. It's like half of a joke, but also kind 719 00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,480 of not. It's it's Zach Cleman, the Grizzlies top executive, and like 720 00:47:10,039 --> 00:47:14,800 I think it's fair. It's mostly fair to say the Marcus Smart trade was 721 00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,000 not a good one, but he was hurt for like the whole year, 722 00:47:17,079 --> 00:47:22,079 so whatever this is about. The Grizzlies played thirty one different human beings this 723 00:47:22,159 --> 00:47:25,239 year and that is an NBA record, And so just by definition, Zach 724 00:47:25,280 --> 00:47:29,760 Cleman was like doing the most, like he just had to go find guys 725 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,920 and they did. Like, look, I you know, who knows how 726 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:37,159 much value you should put in late season or like lost season performances. But 727 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,960 like Gigi Jackson looks like, I don't know what he's gonna be, but 728 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:45,760 he's gonna be something and that's hard to do in like what he was picked 729 00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,119 in the forties. I think the youngest player in the league has had multiple 730 00:47:50,199 --> 00:47:52,519 high scoring games. Looks like he's, you know, the big wing slash 731 00:47:52,599 --> 00:47:57,159 combo forward type that everybody wants. And then Vince Williams Junior is another guy 732 00:47:57,159 --> 00:48:00,480 that like just emerged as a starter and they just just had him. So 733 00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:05,880 I think, like, you know it, I feel like you a little 734 00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:07,960 bit. Where after really the top three, it's kind of like, I 735 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:09,039 don't know, man, there's just a lot of ways to go. I 736 00:48:09,079 --> 00:48:12,519 think, just some acknowledgment there. And then Mike Dunlevy, I know, 737 00:48:12,599 --> 00:48:15,159 like getting Pajemski where they got him, getting Trace Jackson Davis at the very 738 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,559 end of the second round. I think the Chris Paul trade to just get 739 00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:23,760 off the pool contract looks better all the time, even though Paul, I'm 740 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,320 trying to think what else I was I just did. I just didn't move 741 00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:29,599 down Levy from where I had him when we did this a couple. Not 742 00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,280 giving Klay Thompson a twenty plus million, giving Thompson forty million a year, 743 00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:37,440 you're gonna get him for a fraction of that. That's yeah. So I 744 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,039 think some other guys I had thought about Presty, thought about Maury, thought 745 00:48:40,039 --> 00:48:43,800 about Winger and Dawkins, and I did have cup Check still on my like 746 00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:49,039 way down ballot for for the Brandon Miller pick. I mean, yeah, 747 00:48:49,159 --> 00:48:52,559 like another one. That's another Also who the audience actually did end up voting 748 00:48:52,559 --> 00:48:57,360 for uh in their top five and someone I gave consideration to. Now I'm 749 00:48:57,400 --> 00:48:59,880 just wondering, like staring at the list, or if I didn't give it 750 00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:04,880 an consideration too. But our listeners audience had Tim Connolly at number four, 751 00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:08,880 so Steven's at one, Sam Presty at two, Leon Rose at three, 752 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:14,119 Connolly at four, and then Nielson at five, which I mean, I 753 00:49:14,119 --> 00:49:17,079 guess as were playing, it's kind of like I'm not gonna dump all over 754 00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:22,199 that by any stretch. It's it's just look, it's panning out. I 755 00:49:22,199 --> 00:49:24,400 guess this is one. It's a regular season award though, and I guess 756 00:49:24,440 --> 00:49:28,400 like the Matters might have home court advantage in the playoffs, so it ends 757 00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,119 up panning out. That's I'm gonna I'm not gonna lie. That's not someone 758 00:49:30,159 --> 00:49:34,960 I gave. But like they brought in Dante Exem Derek Jones Junior, like 759 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:37,760 they did make these even the Josh Green extension looks super reasonable, So that's 760 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,880 totally fair. Tim Connolly, that was interesting because you look at the Nikkei 761 00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:45,760 Alexander Walker contract and the nas Reed Caught extension. Those are two of the 762 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,960 best team friendly deals in the league. Yeah, right now, and then 763 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,440 even now think about the Mike Conley extension to get that hammered out. He's 764 00:49:52,519 --> 00:49:57,280 under twelve million the next two years per season. Those are big deals and 765 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,400 then there might be I don't know how much you reward him this, but 766 00:50:00,519 --> 00:50:02,320 is there value in kind? I mean also, getting Monte Morris at the 767 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:07,199 deadline is just sort of if he's healthy, breaking case emergency there, but 768 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:09,639 is there also value it? Okay, they didn't go through last year and 769 00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:14,599 then try and undo unmake some of the moves they already did, and they 770 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:16,440 they didn't necessarily chalk it up to it was still risky, but they decided, 771 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:20,480 hey, we didn't see enough of this team together and so you stuck 772 00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:22,960 with it. And so there's a level of respectability in that. The more 773 00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:25,519 I think about it, I'm kind of like, maybe he does deserve to 774 00:50:25,519 --> 00:50:29,239 be in my top five. Yeah, I think that's fair. I mean, 775 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:30,679 look, I got I got Zach Kleman in my top five. You 776 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:35,880 can definitely. I'm sorry, that's agregious. I guess Gugi Jackson, Vince 777 00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:38,920 Williams. But it's just like, does that offset enough of what happened with 778 00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:42,679 the Marcus Smart trade? Now? But this who cares? We got our 779 00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,880 top three, that's all it really matters. Yeah, I think I did 780 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,400 think about Nico Harrison, but then you know, we we've both said that, 781 00:50:49,519 --> 00:50:55,480 like the MAVs trade's biggest of big pictures are like still iffy. I 782 00:50:55,480 --> 00:51:00,280 think so, I don't know, but yeah, the results now are are 783 00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:05,440 the trades were a success? Like that's just where we are and they and 784 00:51:05,519 --> 00:51:08,199 like we do I think reward moves that are not obvious. I think that's 785 00:51:08,280 --> 00:51:13,719 like the Porzingis move for Boston is one of those uh trying to think what 786 00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:17,000 else, like just the so like, if you're gonna do it that way, 787 00:51:17,119 --> 00:51:21,519 then I guess like, yeah, Nico Harrison like made a move that 788 00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:23,760 looked risky and and maybe not smart and has turned out well, So like 789 00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:28,599 maybe extra bonus points there just to look, this is just gonna I'm just 790 00:51:28,639 --> 00:51:31,079 doing it's it's as a joke, but I'm also kind of serious. Shout 791 00:51:31,079 --> 00:51:35,559 out to our audience. They've officially changed my ballot and I'm even gonna throw 792 00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:37,840 it with their caller on there, Tim Connolly's now the top five? Might 793 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:43,159 your rankings? All right? You know, look you're you're really easily influenced. 794 00:51:43,159 --> 00:51:45,239 It's fine. Uh should we just we should probably do Coach of the 795 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,800 Year next? Right, since we're kind of on the topic. This is 796 00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,840 this is your show, so yeah, let's do Coach of the Year. 797 00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,360 Let's do it. So do you wanna who is who is your coach of 798 00:51:54,360 --> 00:52:00,159 the year? Grant my guy and your guy Mark Dagnall Number one. I 799 00:52:00,159 --> 00:52:04,519 don't know really what you say that the second youngest team in the league has 800 00:52:04,559 --> 00:52:07,440 had him or I haven't looked in the last couple of days, but you 801 00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:09,599 know, definitely in the top ten, but we're in the top five on 802 00:52:09,679 --> 00:52:14,320 offense and defense for a long time. Has them playing a distinctive style, 803 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:16,719 like all the driving kicks, drive kick, drive kick, drive kick, 804 00:52:16,800 --> 00:52:22,559 until you either get a layup or a three. I think he's one of 805 00:52:22,559 --> 00:52:27,239 the best, like just game to game, you know, rotation and tactical 806 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,960 adjustment makers in the league. I think the way that he's found ways to 807 00:52:32,079 --> 00:52:37,519 utilize guys that would otherwise be tricky to play, like other Jalen Williams and 808 00:52:37,639 --> 00:52:40,119 like Isaiah Joe, it just gets a lot out of everybody. The Thunder 809 00:52:40,119 --> 00:52:44,320 play hard, like I don't really know what, Like it would be harder 810 00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,039 for me to say, like what does Dagnalt not do well? You know, 811 00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:51,119 like some coaches are all they're weird with their rotations or they narrow down. 812 00:52:51,159 --> 00:52:53,599 His rotation might be well, I mean, that's sure, but I 813 00:52:53,599 --> 00:52:58,440 think he's pretty clearly he's gonna win it, and I think he should. 814 00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:01,480 Yeah, I'm with you. I had so I'm gonna reveal both our top 815 00:53:01,559 --> 00:53:06,239 we have the same top three, they're just in different order. I had 816 00:53:06,840 --> 00:53:08,880 Joe Mizzula at to Jamal Moseley at three. You had Jamal Moseley too, 817 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:13,760 Joe Mizzuola at three. I think even with the talent Joe Mizzula has had, 818 00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,000 the bosses, Celtics have obliterated expectations. And as we already kind of 819 00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:20,599 mentioned with the executive the year stuff, those trades weren't a given. Not 820 00:53:20,679 --> 00:53:24,559 everybody necessarily loved or thought. I was a skeptic. I thought they were 821 00:53:24,559 --> 00:53:29,800 going to be at a playmaking deficit because and even if you thought, well, 822 00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,280 Drew Holle wasn't upgrade for Marcus Smart, it still felt like they didn't 823 00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:36,119 address the primal need, and in some ways they still haven't. But like, 824 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:38,519 was this team on paper supposed to be one of the best teams in 825 00:53:38,599 --> 00:53:43,000 NBA history. You couldn't have just like some of the things that factor that 826 00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:45,159 good health and stuff. But the way they've used Perzingias is good. The 827 00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:51,280 way they've got Drew Holliday to buy into a lesser role on the offensive end, 828 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:53,079 a smaller role whatever you want to call it. They've even they like 829 00:53:53,199 --> 00:53:58,679 up Derek White's volume as this on ball creator for others, I think that 830 00:53:58,719 --> 00:54:01,519 he's done a fantast drop and then is I know some of this has to 831 00:54:01,559 --> 00:54:04,679 do with the injuries that are in the East, but like the Magic weren't 832 00:54:04,719 --> 00:54:06,480 supposed to be here, maybe you could have said, oh, yeah, 833 00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:07,719 they'll have an elite defense. Are they supposed to be competing for home court 834 00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:12,320 advantage in the first round? And again I would shot when you look at 835 00:54:12,360 --> 00:54:15,480 their offensive struggles, I think the fact that he is able to carve out 836 00:54:15,559 --> 00:54:19,519 so much space for their drivers for a Palo Bank Carroll, that things aren't 837 00:54:19,519 --> 00:54:23,599 worse for those guys is a testament to what he does. Yeah, Mosley 838 00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:27,559 climbed the most for me. I don't think I had him in the top 839 00:54:27,599 --> 00:54:30,679 five last time, and that was because, like I think, I was 840 00:54:30,679 --> 00:54:35,119 holding the offense against him while acknowledging that you know, the defense has been 841 00:54:35,119 --> 00:54:37,800 awesome and just like you said, the Magic have outperformed expectations. I just 842 00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:42,440 think the Magic offensive problems are just personnel. Like I just I don't know 843 00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,159 that there's a coach that is going to get this group to have like a 844 00:54:45,199 --> 00:54:49,480 top ten offense or anything close to that. So I think with what with 845 00:54:49,519 --> 00:54:52,559 the players he has and with really young guys occupying a ton of you know, 846 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:57,480 high leverage spots. I think he deserves to be up there. Yeah, 847 00:54:57,559 --> 00:55:00,000 him and Missoula, like you could. I'm not going to quibble between 848 00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:05,599 those two. I think just Missoula has so much talent, but like he 849 00:55:05,639 --> 00:55:07,079 had to organize it, so he had to figure out how to use Derek 850 00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:10,079 White the way he's using him and so on, So both awesome jobs. 851 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:14,079 Do you think either of these two have a case to win it over marked 852 00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:19,239 Dagnault? Yeah, but I think the momentum is definitely like in Dagnault's favor, 853 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,800 although like I think if you're if you're, yeah, they have a 854 00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,880 case. I just don't think it's It's like, if I would put it 855 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:31,440 this way, I'd be really surprised to meet someone that said, like, 856 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:37,760 it's insane that you have Dagnault over either of these guys, whereas if you 857 00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:39,840 flipped it, it's like, well, I don't know. I think it's 858 00:55:39,920 --> 00:55:45,119 I think has the strongest case by virtue of coach of by far and away 859 00:55:45,119 --> 00:55:47,679 would have been the best regular season team. Yeah, I think it makes 860 00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:52,360 sense to reward the guy or whoever is responsible for like real greatness, and 861 00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:57,400 that's definitely like the Celtics are at that level. We have the same final 862 00:55:57,400 --> 00:56:00,719 two candidation, just in a different order. I had Chris Finch, Tom 863 00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:04,559 Tiboeau at five, you had TIBs at four. Chris Finch it at five. 864 00:56:04,599 --> 00:56:07,719 Do you want to what was your logic for the way you ordered that 865 00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:12,000 up? Yeah? I kind of moved Finch out of this number two spot 866 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:17,440 just because the offense I think is underperforming relative to the personnel it has, 867 00:56:19,039 --> 00:56:22,079 and the defense seems Yeah, I guess it's more just like it's harder for 868 00:56:22,119 --> 00:56:27,199 me to point to something that Finch is doing that is making the Wolves as 869 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,000 great as good as they are, whereas like with with Dagnall, with Mosley, 870 00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:32,760 with Missoula, it's a little easier. And with Tibbs too, I 871 00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:37,559 think like the Knicks are a weird team and he's just sort of figured out, 872 00:56:37,639 --> 00:56:40,880 in addition to getting the play really hard, how to make this work. 873 00:56:42,840 --> 00:56:45,519 And I think that's like, I don't know if another coach is getting 874 00:56:45,679 --> 00:56:49,480 out of the Knicks what Tibbs has gotten out of the Knicks during this season. 875 00:56:50,559 --> 00:56:54,079 The thing that I guess I struggle with with Tibby. He absolutely belongs 876 00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:57,719 here. I want to make but like we're just going to fair game on 877 00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,599 criticism. If you put a coach in here and said, hey, you're 878 00:57:01,639 --> 00:57:06,239 gonna play Josh Hard over forty two minutes per game post All Star break, 879 00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:08,960 or hey you're gonna throw Miles McBride and Jalen Brunson. You're gonna like ride 880 00:57:09,039 --> 00:57:15,880 those guys maybe maybe into the into the ground, Like how much of that 881 00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:17,199 should factor against it? And then you kind of dig into it, and 882 00:57:17,239 --> 00:57:22,639 it's like in terms of players, like just looking at their minutes and mark 883 00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:24,159 but this isn't the whole season, but like looking at their minutes of March 884 00:57:24,239 --> 00:57:29,079 Dante Evencenzeol thirty seven plus, Miles McBride thirty five plus, and then Josh 885 00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:30,840 Hard almost forty two minutes a game, he's actually done a pretty good job 886 00:57:30,880 --> 00:57:34,480 not over at using Jalen Brunton. When you look at minutes per game, 887 00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,079 there's no just I think the fact that he's known when to like kind of 888 00:57:38,079 --> 00:57:43,719 stick with Isaiah Hartenstein in the middle. The Knicks do play smaller I think 889 00:57:44,159 --> 00:57:46,519 on the wings that a lot of people would prefer them to. But he's 890 00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:50,320 the fact that he's indulged that. But then I come back to well, 891 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,320 has he given Boya mcdonovitch enough of a fair shake evergetting him from the trade 892 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,199 dead line, then Quentin Grimes get enough of a fair shake. I still 893 00:57:57,840 --> 00:57:59,960 that was just the splitting hairs thing here. And then when I look at 894 00:58:00,119 --> 00:58:04,360 Chris Finch, it's okay. The fact that he has able to have this 895 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:08,159 defense just absolutely flying around. Also the fact that you were able to get 896 00:58:08,199 --> 00:58:12,840 this season out of Nikhil Alexander Walker, the fact that you were able to 897 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:16,440 get this season out of Karl Anthony Towns, even defensively, and so you 898 00:58:16,480 --> 00:58:21,119 can like kind of quibble over some of the lineups that he's run, and 899 00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:22,039 then their offense. You know, they don't like to run a lot of 900 00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:25,039 set plays and do they have the personnel to do that. I just think 901 00:58:25,079 --> 00:58:29,039 when you look at where this team was last season in part because of injury, 902 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:31,880 but based off to where they are now, like he could easily be 903 00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:35,559 some like if you had him too on your I don't know if I could 904 00:58:35,559 --> 00:58:37,599 make his case over Mark Dagnol, but maybe you could. I mean, 905 00:58:37,639 --> 00:58:40,800 just look at like the Wolves are competing, you know, right there at 906 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,639 the same level as the Thunder. So yeah, I think I had him 907 00:58:44,679 --> 00:58:47,360 at two or three last time, So I get it. We got to 908 00:58:47,400 --> 00:58:51,599 mention like Eric Spolstra is not on either of our lists. I think we 909 00:58:51,639 --> 00:58:53,159 both agree he's the best coach in the league. I had him at number 910 00:58:53,239 --> 00:58:58,039 three last time, and it's just the he's a given, you know. 911 00:58:58,239 --> 00:59:02,559 And I think Immiodoka deserves recognition, and I think Nick Nurse deserves And I 912 00:59:02,599 --> 00:59:07,719 guess you mentioned bigger staff too. Does a bigger staff is? I just 913 00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:10,639 it has the weird case. Uh. The toughest cut for me was ema 914 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,679 Udoka and it's am I penalizing him because his team hasn't won at the same 915 00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:17,320 level as these other ones. And then it's well, they weren't supposed to. 916 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,119 And look at where they were just last season with By the way, 917 00:59:21,119 --> 00:59:23,360 when you look at some of their most used players from last season, three 918 00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:28,440 of those dudes are still factoring very prominently into what you're doing. That's why 919 00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,440 that's a great like doing more with the same guys, that's a the Yeah, 920 00:59:31,559 --> 00:59:37,400 that's right. Uh, our listeners had Uh they were in lockstep with 921 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,719 us. When you look at there were there's a surprise, I'll call it 922 00:59:40,719 --> 00:59:45,159 a surprise. I was actually surprised at how far down Joe Mizula finished, 923 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,559 but Mark Degnold at one, Chris Finch at two, Michael Malone at three, 924 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,920 Jamal Moseley at four, and then Joe Mizoula at five. Uh, 925 00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:57,320 Michael Malone, do you think he deserves like that level of And look, 926 00:59:57,360 --> 00:59:59,280 it was close enough to where it was like, I don't. I'm sure 927 00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:02,280 we had nuggets fans like found the link and they were really upvoting that they're 928 01:00:02,320 --> 01:00:07,119 one of the they're considered no worse than the team's second most likely to want 929 01:00:07,159 --> 01:00:10,159 a title, and he has had to navigate the weird Okay, our bench 930 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:15,599 is unproven and I figured it out, like like with the season that Peyton 931 01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:17,280 Watson has had, he's kind of on the periphery of the most improved player 932 01:00:17,679 --> 01:00:22,800 discussion. They've been able to navigate a bunch of weirdness from Christian Brown this 933 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:24,800 season. He's gotten away from printing Jamal Murray and Reggie Jackson together. It 934 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:29,920 feels like he's been more experimental with Aaron Gordon at the five. Do you 935 01:00:29,920 --> 01:00:34,480 think he doesn't get enough credit for what he's doing. I think probably that's 936 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:37,039 the case, But it's also because I think the sense is that like, 937 01:00:37,239 --> 01:00:40,400 well, how much does he really have to do because Jokic is on this 938 01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:44,960 team and like Jokich know you know what I mean, Like it's it's the 939 01:00:45,079 --> 01:00:49,880 kind of why does Joe Mizula finish so high? Up? Look who's on 940 01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:52,239 that team? Well, I mean yeah, but I think, well, 941 01:00:53,119 --> 01:00:57,239 I think it's a little different because Jokic, I think, is regarded as 942 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:00,679 just like he'll just figure it all out, you know, in a way 943 01:01:00,719 --> 01:01:05,280 that that like the volume of talent on Boston May you know, isn't viewed 944 01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,559 as necessarily being able to do in quite the same way. But yeah, 945 01:01:07,599 --> 01:01:13,800 I think like credit Malone for you know, like the knock on jokicen the 946 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,840 Nuggets up until they proved it wrong, was like, well, this defense 947 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:20,920 is never going to be good enough, and like he had a hand in 948 01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:23,119 making it good enough with the way they use Yokic defensively, with the way 949 01:01:23,159 --> 01:01:27,079 they move Gordon, you know. But I think it's just a talent thing, 950 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,000 especially with Jokic, where it's like people are reluctant to maybe give the 951 01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,280 Malone credit because it's like, you know, he's winning all the races, 952 01:01:34,280 --> 01:01:37,559 but he's got the fastest car so like, how much credit does that deserve? 953 01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:40,360 Yeah, I think I think that's not saying that's my opinion. Although 954 01:01:40,360 --> 01:01:43,599 he's not in my top five. It's funny that I put you on the 955 01:01:43,639 --> 01:01:45,239 defensive with this and it's not like he was in my top five. I 956 01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:47,960 just know, I know, it's just like just a question. I think 957 01:01:47,960 --> 01:01:52,719 it's legitimate. If we think the Nuggets are the team most likely to win 958 01:01:52,719 --> 01:01:54,039 a title, we probably should have their coach up here, But I don't 959 01:01:54,039 --> 01:01:59,000 know, we don't. So six Man of the Year next, Yeah, 960 01:01:59,079 --> 01:02:02,480 let's do it. Uh, this is I feel like, is it too 961 01:02:02,519 --> 01:02:05,280 easy? Of all? I don't want to say too easy, that's a 962 01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,320 stupid way to frame it. But like, it wasn't it wasn't that hard 963 01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:10,480 for me to say especially uh, I mean it was. It was kind 964 01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:15,239 of hard for the top two, but other than that, it wasn't super 965 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,719 hard for me. So who did you? Uh? Well, we disagree 966 01:02:17,760 --> 01:02:21,559 at the top because I have Malik Monk at number one and you and you 967 01:02:21,599 --> 01:02:27,840 don't. That's a great way to but we do have the same top Should 968 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,199 I just reveal it? We have the same top three, don't top three? 969 01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,360 Yeah? Yeah, So let's look at the top three. So I 970 01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:37,119 have NOAs Read number one. Uh, I have Malik Monk number two, 971 01:02:37,239 --> 01:02:40,159 and I have Norman Powell number three. You have Monk one, Nos two, 972 01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:46,280 Norman Powell three. And so the difference for me at least is when 973 01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:50,880 it comes to nas and Malik Monk is I know the value that Monk brings 974 01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:53,639 offensively as a playmaker and driver. Nas Read is just going to fill more 975 01:02:53,679 --> 01:02:59,400 gaps and he's a very good enough scorer when you look at his floor game, 976 01:03:00,079 --> 01:03:01,719 when you look at his shooting that I'm comfortable to say, well, 977 01:03:01,719 --> 01:03:06,320 okay, the value he's also going to bring you on defense as his valuability 978 01:03:06,360 --> 01:03:08,320 being able to defend on the perimeter, his rim protection has improved, the 979 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:12,000 fact that he can play next to a big or I think that now we've 980 01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:15,320 gotten to a point where seeing hey, he can get some minutes away as 981 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:19,800 the loan big on the court matters a whole bunch to me. And then 982 01:03:20,559 --> 01:03:22,960 it is funny we had this. I don't think it was on this podcast. 983 01:03:22,039 --> 01:03:27,880 It was on the previous episode we recorded last week about oh why is 984 01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,280 Nikil Alexander Walker not considered the sixth man in Minnesota? Should he be here. 985 01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:35,760 But I just view Nads as kind of feeling. I don't know if 986 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:37,920 he feels more gaps than naw does, but I would call him a little 987 01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:42,480 bit more like na as the passing, but like nas Reid feels like more 988 01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,639 of a threat to score from. Like all these kind of different different levels 989 01:03:45,639 --> 01:03:47,159 to me. But yeah, he is. He was my pick last time, 990 01:03:47,159 --> 01:03:51,199 and I'm sticking with him. But this was tough because Elie Monk has 991 01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:55,519 been spectacular. He leaves the league in assists off drives and that's just wild 992 01:03:55,599 --> 01:04:00,800 because you have to consider how many drives Luca those guys have used compared to 993 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:04,440 Malik Monk. Yeah, the only guy in the league averaging more drives per 994 01:04:04,519 --> 01:04:09,119 game in fewer minutes than Monk is t J McConnell, and TJ mcconald' drives 995 01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:12,079 are just different, Like they're not the same as what Malik Monk is doing. 996 01:04:12,480 --> 01:04:16,119 Yeah, so I just so read I think a lot of what you 997 01:04:16,159 --> 01:04:20,159 would what I would say to credit Monk, which is that like he's really 998 01:04:20,239 --> 01:04:25,639 not like the sixth most valuable guy on his team, like he is in 999 01:04:25,719 --> 01:04:30,039 the top five. And you see that born out in like there's twelve players 1000 01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:33,079 in the league with more fourth quarter points and assists than he has, and 1001 01:04:33,119 --> 01:04:40,119 they're all all stars other than like Kate Cunningham and Kobe White ridiculously high assist 1002 01:04:40,159 --> 01:04:44,280 percentage on drives like we've talked about. So it's like, this guy's really 1003 01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,480 a starter and also more importantly, like a closer like he's he spent a 1004 01:04:46,480 --> 01:04:49,480 bunch of time in the top ten and fourth quarter scoring until he kind of 1005 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:54,280 fell off ninety eight clutch points. But you could say all this about Reid 1006 01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,440 too, because as a starter, Reid is averaging like nineteen and six on 1007 01:04:57,519 --> 01:05:00,719 sixty percent shooting. So it's like, that's good, that's great numbers for 1008 01:05:00,760 --> 01:05:02,840 a starter. That's part of a sixth man's role. By the way, 1009 01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:06,559 where he had to come in and he they haven't started him as he started 1010 01:05:06,599 --> 01:05:10,320 every game that town has been I don't think. I don't think he has, 1011 01:05:10,480 --> 01:05:16,000 and he's got ten or eleven, but so he like it's it's kind 1012 01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:18,679 of the same argument in a different way for both of them. I just 1013 01:05:18,719 --> 01:05:25,880 feel like Monk, I think I value the playmaking and like the initiator role 1014 01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:29,559 a little bit more than Reid. But like Reid's numbers are kind of unassailable, 1015 01:05:29,679 --> 01:05:31,840 So no no issue there, I think for is it for Powell? 1016 01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:36,360 For you, it's just like he's the ultimate like old school yea points uh. 1017 01:05:36,559 --> 01:05:40,800 He makes, he makes and takes a lot of threes, and but 1018 01:05:40,840 --> 01:05:43,719 it's also like he does it efficiently, which like, hey, here's this 1019 01:05:43,800 --> 01:05:45,000 room pressure and I'm gonna shoot a bunch of threes, but actually make them. 1020 01:05:45,039 --> 01:05:48,840 It's not kind of like you know, it's not Lou Williams Jordan Clarkson. 1021 01:05:49,039 --> 01:05:54,119 Yeah, it's it's like not that type of chucker volume. And so 1022 01:05:54,239 --> 01:05:58,039 like him and bogged Down Bydonovich, the playmaking from bog Down Bdonovich is a 1023 01:05:58,199 --> 01:06:00,400 is a big one for me, and his ability to like kind have still 1024 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,280 forced defense into rotation even when is off the dribble, jumpers and falling. 1025 01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:05,239 So we both had him at at number four. So we're in lockstep with 1026 01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:10,800 our top four guys. I kind of feel like like if there wasn't no 1027 01:06:10,920 --> 01:06:14,760 if it wasn't gonna be Nas or Monk at the top for you, I 1028 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:15,880 mean, we have Padle three, so it would be like, do either 1029 01:06:15,920 --> 01:06:18,320 of these two guys have a case to beat out the two guys in front 1030 01:06:18,320 --> 01:06:20,880 of them? Or is there a clear separation there. I think there's a 1031 01:06:20,880 --> 01:06:27,000 pretty clear one too. I like Bogdanovic. Yeah you said it like he's 1032 01:06:27,039 --> 01:06:30,920 the combo guardie. He's really more of a two these days. But I 1033 01:06:30,199 --> 01:06:34,679 don't think his impact as like a well to me, since I have Monk 1034 01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:40,119 first, I'm comparing everybody to him if I'm considering like what the pluses and 1035 01:06:40,159 --> 01:06:43,119 minuses are, like, I just don't think his impact as like a play 1036 01:06:43,159 --> 01:06:47,400 creator is on the level of Monks. So yeah, I think I feel 1037 01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,360 I feel like one two is pretty locked, and I think three four is 1038 01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:56,079 pretty locked. Like my fifth guy is just a very different player that I 1039 01:06:56,079 --> 01:06:59,559 think you couldn't because of the minute totals. You just can't, as John 1040 01:06:59,599 --> 01:07:01,079 Isaac, you just can't kind of like put up any higher than this. 1041 01:07:01,639 --> 01:07:04,559 You could, well, but you could because they don't. The game's requirement 1042 01:07:04,679 --> 01:07:08,840 doesn't apply to this. It doesn't. But in just in terms of like, 1043 01:07:09,000 --> 01:07:12,400 yeah, net impact, it's if you're playing fifteen minutes a night, 1044 01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,079 it's just not the same as guys that are playing twice that much, you 1045 01:07:15,079 --> 01:07:18,880 know. Yeah, So I mean the defensive impact is undeniable for him, 1046 01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:23,239 So stupid Isaac stats for you when you after you give your fifth guy. 1047 01:07:23,400 --> 01:07:26,559 So I have Isaiah Joe just I don't think his minutes it can be all 1048 01:07:26,599 --> 01:07:28,760 over the place a little bit, which is why I because I initially if 1049 01:07:28,760 --> 01:07:31,639 they had him higher than uh Bugdanovic and the last time we did this, 1050 01:07:32,119 --> 01:07:38,039 but they've been pulled back. Well they've just been more inconsistent. But you 1051 01:07:38,079 --> 01:07:40,159 look at what he's able to do. Yes, we know what he does 1052 01:07:40,239 --> 01:07:42,840 is like a movement shooter, but like this is a guy who set screens. 1053 01:07:43,159 --> 01:07:45,400 He'll make his threes, he can put the ball on the floor, 1054 01:07:45,400 --> 01:07:46,719 you get moving inside the arc, and I do really think he's not a 1055 01:07:46,719 --> 01:07:49,920 great defender, but he busts his ass on the defensive end. If his 1056 01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:54,599 minutes were up there, I'd probably consider putting him above Powell. So he 1057 01:07:54,679 --> 01:07:59,280 was like playing more of like the higher stakes moments for them. But yeah, 1058 01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,000 that's where I ended up with him. And before you just get into 1059 01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:05,480 some of your your Isaac stats, just some other names to kind of consider 1060 01:08:05,519 --> 01:08:09,679 here. I think Duncan Robinson's gonna end up starting too many games. Brandon 1061 01:08:09,719 --> 01:08:14,000 Perjemski could still be right there, technically, Jim Hawkes al Horford's a good 1062 01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,079 one. He might have deserved a love. Tim Hardaway Junior I said, 1063 01:08:16,079 --> 01:08:20,640 did I say Jordan Clarkson, Tarris LeVert, TJ McConnell, even Walker Kessler, 1064 01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:25,039 Bobby Portis this year, those are all names that both of us considered. 1065 01:08:25,279 --> 01:08:29,279 Yeah, so Isaac real quick, Like, I think he's been the 1066 01:08:29,279 --> 01:08:32,520 best other than Gobert, and honestly, like would have a case against Gobert 1067 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:38,680 as the best permanent defender in the league. He like, it's just like 1068 01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,960 his ability to make guys miss, So opponents are shooting forty point two percent 1069 01:08:43,319 --> 01:08:46,720 when he's the primary defender. He's getting about six shots defense per game, 1070 01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:50,920 which is not high, but that is by far the lowest field goal percentage 1071 01:08:50,920 --> 01:08:55,840 allowed of any defender who's played at least fifty games and has defended that many 1072 01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:59,319 shots per game. So like, it's a low threshold and he's just like, 1073 01:08:59,680 --> 01:09:01,800 you don't don't make shots against him. And then and at the inside 1074 01:09:01,840 --> 01:09:06,479 six feet he's allowing forty three percent conversion rate. Gobert's at forty eight, 1075 01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:12,560 Like, just like that's the samples tiny, but that's like unheard of four 1076 01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,840 point one percent block rate, two percent steel rate, those are one hundredth 1077 01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:19,600 and ninety fourth percentile figures for his position, respectively. He's just like you 1078 01:09:19,640 --> 01:09:24,319 watch him play. I can't believe he can move the way that he can 1079 01:09:24,520 --> 01:09:29,880 after all the injuries he's had. But the guy's like a premium A plus 1080 01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,560 rim defender that can still move around the floor, which is just like, 1081 01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,199 I mean, anybody can. He just can't. The minutes just may not 1082 01:09:36,279 --> 01:09:39,680 ever be there for him. But I wanted to just throw him out there 1083 01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,720 because like he's he's the best like low minute player in the league, I 1084 01:09:43,760 --> 01:09:51,199 think by a pretty considerable margin. Our our audience had some some interesting names 1085 01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:55,600 here. Malik Monk number one, Nasri number two, so they were not 1086 01:09:55,760 --> 01:09:59,520 Powell three, bogged On four so they were in lockstep with you. Brandon 1087 01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:03,600 pujems Key number five got some love. I will say. The other names 1088 01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:09,279 that we received. TJ McConnell was on ballast. There was Peyton Watson and 1089 01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:13,239 Christian Brown. Uh. There was also I don't understand this at all, 1090 01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:17,199 Michael Porter Junior and Tyrese Maxie received votes. I thought, I think we 1091 01:10:17,239 --> 01:10:21,880 got some nuggets infiltration if Brown and Watson and then MPJ somehow shows up even 1092 01:10:21,920 --> 01:10:29,199 though, ever, was that has MPJ come off the bench like once this 1093 01:10:29,319 --> 01:10:32,880 year? Oh my god, I don't. I don't think with the with 1094 01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:38,960 the votes are these he said, yeah, all seventy five games have been 1095 01:10:39,479 --> 01:10:42,840 He's oh no, he came off. He hasn't come off the bench like 1096 01:10:42,920 --> 01:10:46,279 in the past three years at all. So that's just bizarre to me. 1097 01:10:46,680 --> 01:10:50,199 We had this shouldn't be a thing. Was also on the ballot for six 1098 01:10:50,279 --> 01:10:54,560 man well, I mean Chris Paul made an appearance. I did say TJ 1099 01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:59,239 McConnell before the pagens he wont is interesting. I didn't really consider him because 1100 01:10:59,239 --> 01:11:01,000 I would have considered Duncan Robinson more too. But like when I kind of 1101 01:11:01,039 --> 01:11:04,880 just looked at how many of their starts were creeping up there, I couldn't 1102 01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:08,600 get to that with pods. But if you're just gonna view it as, 1103 01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:13,039 hey, Brandon Progeenski has started what is he at now thirty three starts or 1104 01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:15,560 something. If you're just gonna say that's less than half the season, so 1105 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:17,880 oh, he's at twenty seven starts. If you're just gonna look at that 1106 01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:21,640 number and say that that's enough for me, I think that's fine. He's 1107 01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:26,920 certainly like not to appear on the top five. Bout is not egregious at 1108 01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,079 all, the fact that there could have been two rookies him and I my 1109 01:11:29,199 --> 01:11:32,560 Hawkes like to appear on here, like Projensky's not starting, whether the past 1110 01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,520 five games or something's come off the bench, right, So yeah, I 1111 01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:40,319 totally get a wrong question. I do not understand MPJA or tires MAXI being 1112 01:11:40,359 --> 01:11:45,199 here though. That all that. Also, let's do what do we have 1113 01:11:45,319 --> 01:11:48,600 left Rookie of the year and most improved. I think we should leave most 1114 01:11:48,600 --> 01:11:56,880 improved for the last Let's do rookie this one. Man, this was this 1115 01:11:57,000 --> 01:12:05,399 was tough' it's it's Wemby at the top for me. WHOA. So we're 1116 01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:09,560 to hear you because you had Chet number one last time, I think, 1117 01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:14,960 yeah, I didn't reverse it this time. I have I have Wemby at 1118 01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:17,199 one. And I said that on the last podcast that when we were recording 1119 01:12:17,199 --> 01:12:19,600 it, I was still kind of just in the mode of, Okay, 1120 01:12:19,600 --> 01:12:23,359 well, look at what Chet has done all of this season. We can't 1121 01:12:23,399 --> 01:12:26,920 just dismiss the entire body of work. And I think there are people that 1122 01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:30,279 are still going to vote for Chet as number one, which is ultimately fine, 1123 01:12:30,359 --> 01:12:33,399 but I can't Here's what I can't square when you just look at what 1124 01:12:33,520 --> 01:12:38,800 Victor Wemberyama is doing versus what Chet is doing for the team he's doing it 1125 01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:43,439 on like this is someone like Chet is no worse than the third most important 1126 01:12:43,439 --> 01:12:45,359 player on what might be the best team in the Western Conference. That is 1127 01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:48,600 wild, and that has to matter. But I do think the scope of 1128 01:12:48,640 --> 01:12:53,199 Wemby's role covers more. Chet is more than a specialist on offense, but 1129 01:12:53,239 --> 01:12:56,520 like Whmby's hitting pull up threes, that's his role. So I don't want 1130 01:12:56,560 --> 01:13:00,560 to penalize Chet for playing around pretty clearly superior talent, but like, I 1131 01:13:00,560 --> 01:13:05,039 don't think he can anchor a like the defensive personnel that Wemby has around him, 1132 01:13:05,119 --> 01:13:08,399 where it's Devin Vicell and like, yeah, there's Jeremy so In, 1133 01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:11,359 but like, you don't have a ton of great defensive talent around you, 1134 01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:15,199 and yet the Spurs were the eightieth percentile defensively when he's on on the court. 1135 01:13:15,159 --> 01:13:19,159 And I like, by the way, for basically like more than half 1136 01:13:19,199 --> 01:13:23,279 the season, the Spurs have won the minutes that Victor Wibanyam has been on 1137 01:13:23,319 --> 01:13:25,319 the court, and so he might not be playing at a ton of higher 1138 01:13:25,319 --> 01:13:29,479 stakes moments, but the Spurs are winning for most of this season. The 1139 01:13:29,479 --> 01:13:31,399 minutes that he has been on the floor, that's a that's a big free 1140 01:13:31,640 --> 01:13:35,119 for him right there. Like if you don't, if you'd forget the highlights 1141 01:13:35,119 --> 01:13:39,720 and the numbers, it's like that's impossible, Like you got to be so 1142 01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:44,000 good for that to be true. Yeah, it's just so his it's it 1143 01:13:44,079 --> 01:13:46,119 really is a fascinating case. But I mean, like just everything he is 1144 01:13:46,159 --> 01:13:51,359 doing so and since look so when they made him their starting five twenty two 1145 01:13:51,399 --> 01:13:57,399 points four assists while increasing his true shooting percentage from fifty two to almost fifty 1146 01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:00,760 nine, we've seen some live rouble passing from him that shine through, and 1147 01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,920 it's it's beyond just kickouts. He's doubting during this stretch, grand forty one 1148 01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:09,960 point eight percent of his pull up triples and this is covering forty seven games. 1149 01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:15,199 That's the fourth best mark among everyone who's attempted at least one hundred pull 1150 01:14:15,279 --> 01:14:18,720 up threes in that span. That's fucking nuts. And he's taking deep ones 1151 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:23,960 like he is not afraid of the logo three. Like it's not like it's 1152 01:14:24,079 --> 01:14:27,560 just no shape of Chet. It's just it's supposed to be the best. 1153 01:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,960 I mean, this also happens to be the Wemby's should have the better career 1154 01:14:30,960 --> 01:14:33,680 if he's healthy. Wemby has been the most impactful rookie this season. Now 1155 01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,920 we've played enough of it to where we're talking about samples. When we were 1156 01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:40,720 last talking it was a little bit less than half the season. It's more 1157 01:14:40,760 --> 01:14:44,399 than half the season, and like that that just has to matter for me. 1158 01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:47,199 Yeah, it's I I just the numbers, you know, we've I 1159 01:14:47,319 --> 01:14:51,720 just I want to almost like give Chet some flowers because I think in a 1160 01:14:51,720 --> 01:14:56,439 lot of years he would run, he'd be running away with this. So, 1161 01:14:56,520 --> 01:14:59,399 like you, if you do a bunch of the just point three rebounds, 1162 01:14:59,399 --> 01:15:02,399 assists, block averages, like Wemby is just on pace to do the 1163 01:15:02,399 --> 01:15:06,960 first thing ever basically right like he's he's putting up rookie numbers we've just never 1164 01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,279 seen before. But if you if you just take Chet and say round him 1165 01:15:12,279 --> 01:15:17,119 down sixteen points seven boards, two assists, there's like a dozen other rookies 1166 01:15:17,159 --> 01:15:19,840 that have done that. And then if you just filter it for guys who 1167 01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:26,359 make any threes at all, there's like two and so like he's just Chet 1168 01:15:26,560 --> 01:15:30,720 is you know, we would be talking about Chet like he's oh my god, 1169 01:15:30,760 --> 01:15:35,960 he's the best rookie since whatever if not for Wemby because like, and 1170 01:15:36,000 --> 01:15:40,039 he's also impacting winning, like you said, which is it's not fair to 1171 01:15:40,039 --> 01:15:43,279 Wembanyama. God knows what the thunder will be doing if they had wem Banyama 1172 01:15:43,279 --> 01:15:46,640 and not Homeger And like that's a fun thought experiment. But Chet and Wenby 1173 01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:50,520 on the same team that holds do opposing teams even score ninety points a game? 1174 01:15:50,760 --> 01:15:55,159 I don't think layups would be allowed, like under any circumstances on that 1175 01:15:55,239 --> 01:15:58,159 team. It's I think the rest of the ballots where it gets a little 1176 01:15:58,199 --> 01:16:01,159 more interesting and it's kind of a you know, choose your flavor. I 1177 01:16:02,239 --> 01:16:06,000 was gonna ask you we both had Brandon Miller at three. Yeah, but 1178 01:16:06,039 --> 01:16:10,359 do you think there's a case for someone else to appear there? I mean, 1179 01:16:10,399 --> 01:16:14,119 if you go with the numbers like you, if you're in the advanced 1180 01:16:14,159 --> 01:16:15,399 metrics, I think there's a case for like a lot of guys to be 1181 01:16:15,520 --> 01:16:20,239 ahead of Miller, like pods. I think probably it has the should be 1182 01:16:20,319 --> 01:16:23,640 number three. If that's all all you really care about, and then Aman 1183 01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,720 Thompson made like a really late push. He's got positive box plus minus, 1184 01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:30,279 which not a lot of rookies have. I think of the next chunk of 1185 01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:34,279 guys, some of the advanced metrics like Thompson the best, but like I 1186 01:16:34,279 --> 01:16:38,239 think Miller, it's an eye test thing, like he's just he's the big 1187 01:16:38,279 --> 01:16:40,800 wing that can get his own shot, is going to be a good defender, 1188 01:16:40,960 --> 01:16:44,720 is just a more complete player with a higher ceiling than anybody really than 1189 01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:49,640 most people thought. It's just once you leave the Miller spot and go down 1190 01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:55,520 to like Pajemski, even Hawkes, Wallace, the Thompson's lively, it's like, 1191 01:16:56,159 --> 01:17:00,000 yeah, there's some good starters there, maybe probably and the Thompsons certainly. 1192 01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:05,359 The upside is like who knows, But like Miller is, like if 1193 01:17:05,359 --> 01:17:09,720 he's not an All Star several times, it'd be more of a it'd be 1194 01:17:09,800 --> 01:17:13,039 surprising, right, whereas with the rest of the guys, I think that 1195 01:17:13,079 --> 01:17:16,520 what they've shown doesn't rise to that level. Yeah, and Miller's defense really 1196 01:17:16,520 --> 01:17:18,840 sold it for me, Like, look, he's shooting forty seven percent on 1197 01:17:18,840 --> 01:17:23,399 his pull up twos. That's good, thirty nine percent on his catch and 1198 01:17:23,399 --> 01:17:26,359 shoot threes, and the fact that he's maintained that where you're not getting teed 1199 01:17:26,439 --> 01:17:29,640 up by LaMelo because he's barely played, but just the defense, the pre 1200 01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:32,520 ball pressure, the ability to chase after motion guys. They've also had to 1201 01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:36,840 use him because of like Mark Williams, really not playing a ton this season. 1202 01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:40,880 He's second on the team and shots contested at the rim, and this 1203 01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:45,039 is fascinating. I'll probably regurgitate this that because I find it's so fascinating when 1204 01:17:45,039 --> 01:17:47,640 we do our all rookie teams. So there are four hundred and seventy plus 1205 01:17:47,680 --> 01:17:53,680 players who are under six nine that have log time this season in the NBA. 1206 01:17:54,840 --> 01:17:59,319 Miller ranked sixth in the number of shots contested at the basket among that 1207 01:17:59,359 --> 01:18:01,720 group. That and so it's just like he's wearing a lot of hats for 1208 01:18:01,760 --> 01:18:04,359 a rookie defensively. And I think it's flown under the radar a little bit 1209 01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:09,800 because of how bad Charlotte has been and just how many injuries they've dealt with. 1210 01:18:09,880 --> 01:18:13,159 And so he was an easy number three. Who did you have at 1211 01:18:13,239 --> 01:18:16,960 number four? So I have Pajemski at four. I think I would have 1212 01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:23,159 felt a lot better about this, Like six weeks ago. Maybe he has 1213 01:18:23,199 --> 01:18:27,119 some real like there's gonna be some real hurdles for him, Like finishing at 1214 01:18:27,119 --> 01:18:30,199 the rim has become really difficult. He's just not athletic enough. Getting his 1215 01:18:30,239 --> 01:18:36,199 own shot off when just closely defended is hard for him. But like just 1216 01:18:36,239 --> 01:18:41,800 a phenomenal rebounder, makes the right pass all the time, is super unselfish, 1217 01:18:41,920 --> 01:18:45,479 plays as I mean, plays incredibly hard, like all that stuff. 1218 01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,359 I think he's gonna stick in a rotation for a long time. There was 1219 01:18:47,399 --> 01:18:49,000 a minute there where it was like, Oh, this guy's gonna be a 1220 01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:53,640 starter for sure. I don't know if that's the case anymore, just because 1221 01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:56,760 athletically he's pretty limited. But I think he's got all. He's got the 1222 01:18:56,760 --> 01:19:00,840 intangibles he's got, Like he's gonna be a good defender just because he's smart 1223 01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:03,800 and he plays hard and knows where to be and is super aggressive. So 1224 01:19:03,920 --> 01:19:08,439 I just I thought he and looked like he took over a starting job for 1225 01:19:08,479 --> 01:19:11,399 a guy that the team really did not want to bench. Uh, So 1226 01:19:11,560 --> 01:19:16,199 like that's that's a big factor too. So I had I'm gonna go my 1227 01:19:16,239 --> 01:19:19,800 four and five because I ended up not putting pods in my In my top 1228 01:19:19,840 --> 01:19:25,319 five, I had jiay Hawks four case and Wallace at five. The himay 1229 01:19:25,319 --> 01:19:28,439 hawkis case is just like he's a you know, when we talk about connector 1230 01:19:28,479 --> 01:19:31,239 types, it feels like they're almost always like these guards, and he's a 1231 01:19:31,319 --> 01:19:35,560 connector wing or foe or whatever you want to consider him. The defense is 1232 01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,680 there. He will come in, he will bust up entry passes, he'll 1233 01:19:39,720 --> 01:19:43,800 get the the you know, he'll fly into these kickouts to the corners and 1234 01:19:43,840 --> 01:19:48,640 he'll he'll he'll ruin those. We've seen him cover some pretty tough assignments offensively. 1235 01:19:48,920 --> 01:19:51,359 The numbers aren't gonna drop off the page, and he's not. You 1236 01:19:51,399 --> 01:19:55,399 know, he's under thirty two percent from three this season, but he scores 1237 01:19:55,399 --> 01:20:00,279 efficiently in general, sixty six plus percent on his payton touches, is boring, 1238 01:20:00,319 --> 01:20:03,760 above average at the rim from mid range in transition on post ups. 1239 01:20:04,079 --> 01:20:09,199 We've seen him drop some really nice dimes on these live dribbles. And the 1240 01:20:09,199 --> 01:20:13,399 fact that he is kind of figuring out a way to mesh offensively with the 1241 01:20:13,439 --> 01:20:15,880 heat again that we've seen him hit higher peaks from three too, Like he's 1242 01:20:15,880 --> 01:20:19,920 had some pretty good splits, but they've also been uneven, but to be 1243 01:20:20,000 --> 01:20:23,600 as good defensively as a rookie, which also, by the way, and 1244 01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:27,800 this leads into what case why have Cason Wallace here? Some things. He's 1245 01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,840 a regular member of what might be the best team in the Western Conference as 1246 01:20:30,840 --> 01:20:33,840 a rookie. His defense, he's able to guard up, he can really 1247 01:20:33,840 --> 01:20:39,079 get into the ball. He's another player who's going to be tough to screen. 1248 01:20:39,199 --> 01:20:41,920 And then he fits like a glove on the offensive end, where you 1249 01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:45,119 almost want him to take more shots. But he can hit his threes, 1250 01:20:45,920 --> 01:20:48,079 he's going to he can attack in space, and he can make some nice 1251 01:20:48,119 --> 01:20:51,880 passes, like we've seen some gnarly footwork when he's in traffic, even after 1252 01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:55,680 picking up his dribble. And so you want that to get better. And 1253 01:20:55,720 --> 01:20:58,239 I know his minutes are going to pale in comparison. And look, if 1254 01:20:58,279 --> 01:21:01,039 we do this exercise, you know, when we do all rookie I might 1255 01:21:01,039 --> 01:21:04,239 flip flop and have Amen Thompson here. But like he had, Casey Wallace 1256 01:21:04,279 --> 01:21:08,239 has the minutes and games played advantage right now. And the fact that the 1257 01:21:08,279 --> 01:21:11,720 hunderd is so good and he's a regular member of that really sealed it for 1258 01:21:11,840 --> 01:21:14,680 me. And also just you know, we talk about this with Chet, 1259 01:21:14,680 --> 01:21:17,800 with Wemby, with Hawkes, with Wallace, Amen Thompson, Osar Thompson. 1260 01:21:18,119 --> 01:21:21,520 Has there ever been a rookie class that was just this good defensively in the 1261 01:21:21,560 --> 01:21:26,239 aggregate? I mean Chet obviously didn't come from this draft class specifically, of 1262 01:21:26,239 --> 01:21:29,159 course, it's wild Yeah, no that I didn't really thought about it that 1263 01:21:29,199 --> 01:21:33,039 way. There's like, I mean, all of all the guys we've listed 1264 01:21:33,079 --> 01:21:38,520 on both our ballots are good defenders, like you know, and there's way 1265 01:21:38,600 --> 01:21:42,960 more down that aren't here that would kind of speaking of I have Amen Thompson 1266 01:21:43,159 --> 01:21:46,279 at five, and like the playing time is not you know, as high 1267 01:21:46,319 --> 01:21:48,880 as you might want it to be. This is almost like I want to 1268 01:21:48,880 --> 01:21:51,600 be on the right side of history picked Like I need to get this one 1269 01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:56,720 on the record because what I've seen of him now, like he started out 1270 01:21:56,720 --> 01:21:59,319 the season hurt, so it was like kind of took a while to come 1271 01:21:59,319 --> 01:22:02,319 on, and then I think the Shngoon injury opened up some opportunities for him 1272 01:22:02,359 --> 01:22:08,119 that weren't there before. But like athletically, a lot of the same things 1273 01:22:08,159 --> 01:22:12,720 we said about Asar earlier this year was just like this guy is one hundredth 1274 01:22:12,760 --> 01:22:16,239 percentile, like in just terms of pure NBA athleticism, like he stands out 1275 01:22:16,279 --> 01:22:21,079 on a floor with nine other like superhuman athletes. He's a really good passer, 1276 01:22:21,840 --> 01:22:25,039 He's gonna block a ton of shots, He's gonna get a ton of 1277 01:22:25,039 --> 01:22:30,000 steals. The shot is not there like full stop. I think I don't 1278 01:22:30,039 --> 01:22:33,399 know how I would rate. I think he probably has a higher likelihood of 1279 01:22:33,399 --> 01:22:38,199 becoming a decent shooter than a SAR does, but you know, neither of 1280 01:22:38,239 --> 01:22:41,840 them have great outlooks there. I just think the idea of him as like 1281 01:22:42,239 --> 01:22:45,199 he might be your point guard. Someday, he might be your power forward. 1282 01:22:45,239 --> 01:22:48,239 Someday he might be both. He just like he's had moments that a 1283 01:22:48,239 --> 01:22:51,640 lot of gout. No one really on this list, maybe other than Wemby, 1284 01:22:53,439 --> 01:22:56,359 like the jaw droppers. Like, I think he's just been had some 1285 01:22:56,439 --> 01:23:00,039 phenomenal athletic highlights that I just can't get out of my brain. His offensive 1286 01:23:00,039 --> 01:23:05,640 rebound eleven percent offensive rebounding rate is bonkers, and this is a this is 1287 01:23:05,640 --> 01:23:09,720 a crazy number. And I'll give this another stat I'll probably regurge the state 1288 01:23:09,760 --> 01:23:14,239 when we do all rookies, so among every player aged twenty two or younger 1289 01:23:14,319 --> 01:23:18,159 who's as tall or shorter than Amen Thompson, so six to seven or smaller. 1290 01:23:18,840 --> 01:23:21,520 Here's the full list of players to clear twenty points, five assists, 1291 01:23:21,520 --> 01:23:26,640 two steals in one blocks per one hundred possession Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan and 1292 01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:31,479 John Wall and now pretty good John Wall. Look at you get in there, 1293 01:23:31,560 --> 01:23:34,399 John Wall. It's the blocks, great shot blocking guard. John Wall. 1294 01:23:35,039 --> 01:23:38,119 Yeah, you want to mention a few guys, there's you know, 1295 01:23:38,159 --> 01:23:42,319 a handful that I think we're fairly in there. There's you know, Gigi 1296 01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,479 Jackson certainly belongs in the discussion here. Uh, Cam Whitmore, had he 1297 01:23:45,520 --> 01:23:49,720 played more, could be someone that sneaks into this conversation. I didn't have 1298 01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:55,079 pods obviously, so he definitely deserves it. And and that was just like, 1299 01:23:55,920 --> 01:23:59,840 I don't know, there's been I probably just don't trust the offensive efficiency 1300 01:23:59,840 --> 01:24:02,800 and from him or the ability to generate his own shot. Sar Thompson had 1301 01:24:02,800 --> 01:24:05,840 he played more. Derek Lively the second injuries and then kind of the trade 1302 01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:10,800 deadline that that shrunk his role a little bit below cool BALI someone who deserves 1303 01:24:11,159 --> 01:24:14,880 another mention here, Chiante George. I definitely don't think he's really in the 1304 01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:16,319 discussion to be one of the top five rookies at this point, but he's 1305 01:24:16,319 --> 01:24:21,000 had his shoulder a pretty complicated workload. In you, Tom I for forgetting 1306 01:24:21,000 --> 01:24:25,119 anyone that should probably get a shout out in this rookie discussion. I think 1307 01:24:25,199 --> 01:24:30,039 I think we got it, Tomani Kamara. Those are those are black like 1308 01:24:30,079 --> 01:24:32,479 those are but not nothing this high end. Are you ready? So there's 1309 01:24:32,479 --> 01:24:38,560 only two people to appear on the listener ballot? What when we want in 1310 01:24:38,640 --> 01:24:42,279 check two? Because they only I just asked for their winners. Because when 1311 01:24:42,279 --> 01:24:45,720 we're taking to town, if that's the criteria that is correct, those are 1312 01:24:46,359 --> 01:24:49,079 absolutely no no shout out, shout out to the audience. You guys did 1313 01:24:49,079 --> 01:24:51,920 a great job here, all right. We got to go to most improved. 1314 01:24:53,359 --> 01:24:56,720 That is our last we do because that is, in fact the last 1315 01:24:56,720 --> 01:25:00,640 one that we have. So good call k can do the alphabet can do 1316 01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:09,159 process of elimination. Uh okay. So I'm fascinated because I feel like you 1317 01:25:09,199 --> 01:25:13,600 talked me into putting this guy number one a little bit. Uh so I 1318 01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:18,520 have Jalen Williams number one. Wait, so are you asking me to make 1319 01:25:18,560 --> 01:25:21,439 the case for your number one? Big no, I'm just telling you that, 1320 01:25:21,479 --> 01:25:25,960 and I want you to explain yourself. Why is he not on your 1321 01:25:26,359 --> 01:25:29,359 I will say I stuck he's not going to appear in my ballot because I 1322 01:25:29,439 --> 01:25:33,239 stuck to my guns that I'm not going to put a second year player on 1323 01:25:33,279 --> 01:25:38,000 here. But my god, he came so close to you, and if 1324 01:25:38,039 --> 01:25:40,760 I was going to pick it, it just would have been him, because 1325 01:25:40,760 --> 01:25:44,000 it's just like that, how much he's improved, just the off the dribble, 1326 01:25:44,039 --> 01:25:45,920 jump shooting, the defense. He might make it all defense team, 1327 01:25:46,399 --> 01:25:49,640 Like he's been that good defensively, the passing, the ability to kind of 1328 01:25:49,640 --> 01:25:54,640 prop up lineups without SGA. He's I can't say enough good things about. 1329 01:25:55,000 --> 01:25:58,560 And look, there's more directionality too to the way he's attacking, Like there's 1330 01:25:58,560 --> 01:26:02,239 still that abruptness, but there's more of that deliberation and methodical approach. Yeah, 1331 01:26:02,319 --> 01:26:05,680 I think the argument is, like, yeah, it's definitely an uphill 1332 01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:09,840 battle because the second year player thing. But I think in his case, 1333 01:26:09,880 --> 01:26:13,000 he just has become a different type of player, and maybe that's just maybe 1334 01:26:13,039 --> 01:26:15,399 it's more of a progression than like he transformed, because he was, you 1335 01:26:15,399 --> 01:26:18,520 know, he was improving over the course of last season as a rookie, 1336 01:26:18,880 --> 01:26:25,119 but just like you watch him now and you know he's improved to being a 1337 01:26:25,239 --> 01:26:28,000 like one of the best three point shooters in the league. Is volume was 1338 01:26:28,039 --> 01:26:31,039 not way up there, but he's forty three percent and he's scored more fourth 1339 01:26:31,119 --> 01:26:34,399 quarter points in SGA last I looked, which is like never not going to 1340 01:26:34,439 --> 01:26:39,079 be insane. Should trade SGA and rebuild around and get rid of him. 1341 01:26:39,640 --> 01:26:45,359 It's just that, like his offensive game to me is like complete because he's 1342 01:26:45,359 --> 01:26:47,359 a great he's a now he's a great spot up three point shooter. Maybe 1343 01:26:47,359 --> 01:26:50,000 he's not a forty three percent shooter, but I think he's also not like 1344 01:26:50,079 --> 01:26:54,720 whatever he was last year, thirty five or whatever it was. He's going 1345 01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:58,279 to be a high thirties guy. Off the dribble. He can get to 1346 01:26:58,319 --> 01:27:00,600 his spot for and like shoulder his man off of him for a pull up 1347 01:27:01,000 --> 01:27:05,800 or a spin and like a turnaround, just like the way that superstars do. 1348 01:27:06,159 --> 01:27:09,319 Like that's the you know, pick the guy you want to compare him 1349 01:27:09,359 --> 01:27:12,439 to. There's like you hear Kawhi, You hear like some James Harden like 1350 01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:16,479 shiftiness, Like I don't know, but he does like mid range individual shot 1351 01:27:16,520 --> 01:27:23,199 creation, we need a bucket stuff that superstars do, awesome finisher like super 1352 01:27:23,319 --> 01:27:27,920 sudden, explosive athleticism. And then he guards like real guys, Like he'll 1353 01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:31,319 guard a lot of like good fourth ones. No he's not, he's not 1354 01:27:31,399 --> 01:27:34,640 hiding. It's like they're just this is on team with like lou Dort n 1355 01:27:34,680 --> 01:27:38,680 Sga. There's no shortage of good defenders. And like he's the guy that 1356 01:27:38,720 --> 01:27:43,000 will go get Yannis or whatever, Zion or whatever it is. He's just 1357 01:27:43,119 --> 01:27:46,079 I think to me, Williams is now like a two way star that's gonna 1358 01:27:46,079 --> 01:27:49,680 make a bunch of All Star Games and probably some All NBA teams, and 1359 01:27:49,760 --> 01:27:55,319 like that just was not there last year, like that that level, Like 1360 01:27:56,000 --> 01:28:00,079 you know, we reward teams that we say it's harder to go from fifty 1361 01:28:00,119 --> 01:28:02,760 to sixty wins than it is from forty to fifty or whatever. This is 1362 01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:06,800 like this is the fifty to sixty win jump, Like this is the hardest 1363 01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:12,279 jump to go from really good starter potentially to like this guy might be the 1364 01:28:12,279 --> 01:28:16,800 best player on a really good team someday. So that's my case for him, 1365 01:28:17,399 --> 01:28:19,880 Like and but then I also if you don't put him on your ballot 1366 01:28:19,880 --> 01:28:24,319 because he's a second year guy and like, you should get this much better. 1367 01:28:24,359 --> 01:28:28,039 Like I kind of get that. I just think the magnitude of his 1368 01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:31,640 growth is like more significant than anybody else I'm we're going to talk about. 1369 01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:35,000 To me, I think that's fair. I do think Kobe White comes close, 1370 01:28:35,119 --> 01:28:39,640 which is who I went with as someone who toggles between this off ball 1371 01:28:39,640 --> 01:28:43,359 and on ball score. And he's gotten so much better as an offensive organizer 1372 01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:45,840 as well. When you're looking at his passing, the defense is still kind 1373 01:28:45,880 --> 01:28:48,439 of if he there. I went back and forth on whether I should include 1374 01:28:48,520 --> 01:28:55,000 him at number one, because I really I'll spoiler now I have Alphern Shangun 1375 01:28:55,039 --> 01:28:58,439 at number two. I grapple with whether this was a matter of him getting 1376 01:28:58,479 --> 01:29:01,399 better or opportunity, and I do think it's a combination of both. Like 1377 01:29:01,439 --> 01:29:04,279 a lot of it is the opportunity, but he got better defensively looking at 1378 01:29:04,279 --> 01:29:08,079 his positioning and he kind of look at his decision making on offense, where 1379 01:29:08,079 --> 01:29:11,479 we always knew he was a dangerous one on one score, but now he 1380 01:29:11,560 --> 01:29:14,479 kind of knows it and he's getting to that mode quicker, and he's handling 1381 01:29:14,479 --> 01:29:16,920 double teams better, and so you factor that in with just the production where 1382 01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:20,439 he's gonna have someone who's averaging over twenty points and can drive the playmaking of 1383 01:29:20,479 --> 01:29:26,199 your entire offense and can I think what separates him from sort of other big 1384 01:29:26,239 --> 01:29:29,720 man facilitators is that he can you know, I don't like the Yo Kich 1385 01:29:29,760 --> 01:29:33,560 with the Sibonus comparisons, but like he can jumpstart the offense in so many 1386 01:29:33,560 --> 01:29:36,119 different ways and from so many different areas of the court, like it begins 1387 01:29:36,119 --> 01:29:39,399 as soon as he can grab the rebound, where he can't hostually say that 1388 01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:43,199 with a lot of the other playmaking bigs. So he ended up being number 1389 01:29:43,199 --> 01:29:45,880 two for me, and he does still qualify for anyone who's wondering why he's 1390 01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:49,159 gonna end up probably under sixty five games, but he appeared in sixty before 1391 01:29:49,159 --> 01:29:53,000 his season and end the injury, And because those sixty games are more than 1392 01:29:53,039 --> 01:29:56,359 eighty percent or whatever of his team season at the point, he qualified, 1393 01:29:56,359 --> 01:29:59,239 so that obscure rule like put him there. He could have won the whole 1394 01:29:59,359 --> 01:30:02,720 entire thing. Is I'm concerned. I will note though my two my top 1395 01:30:02,760 --> 01:30:06,159 two picks would have been Scotty at one and Jalen Johnson at two. Neither 1396 01:30:06,159 --> 01:30:11,119 of them qualified, though. Yeah, I had Scotty at one two until 1397 01:30:11,199 --> 01:30:14,720 until the injury knocked him out. I have Kobe White at number two for 1398 01:30:14,760 --> 01:30:16,760 the reasons you said, like I'm not sure if this guy is gonna be 1399 01:30:17,399 --> 01:30:20,279 much of anything too, Like, oh, he's a starting lead guard in 1400 01:30:20,319 --> 01:30:25,600 the NBA, that's a hard thing to do. I have Jonathan Kaminga at 1401 01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:30,439 three. It's a little bit like the Jalen Williams thing where it's like this 1402 01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:33,880 guy can't stick in the rotation for long stretches. And now I think he's 1403 01:30:33,920 --> 01:30:39,760 clearly the second. He's clearly the most important long term piece on the Warriors. 1404 01:30:39,760 --> 01:30:44,800 Now, if you're envisioning like the post Steph Curry world, he's another 1405 01:30:44,880 --> 01:30:47,119 guy that, like you know, talking about the Thompson's, Like athletically, 1406 01:30:47,159 --> 01:30:50,039 Kaminga is just on a level that not a lot of guys can get to. 1407 01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:55,600 I think he's developed a lot more scoring craft, Like he's can score 1408 01:30:55,720 --> 01:30:59,479 off the dribble in the mid range. He's so quick to the basket, 1409 01:30:59,640 --> 01:31:02,279 is able to elevate over guys, really good body control. Just like I 1410 01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:05,000 think some of this was there. And so this is another case where like 1411 01:31:05,119 --> 01:31:10,239 finally he got to play and got the confidence from regular minutes to like uncork 1412 01:31:10,319 --> 01:31:13,840 all this stuff. But like, he's not remotely the same guy he was 1413 01:31:13,920 --> 01:31:17,239 last year, so I think I think he also, like I don't know 1414 01:31:17,279 --> 01:31:21,039 that I believe that some of the other guys on my ballot have Like I 1415 01:31:21,079 --> 01:31:24,199 mean, some of these guys are already sort of hired to begin with. 1416 01:31:24,199 --> 01:31:29,680 But like I think Kamenga has a star ceiling and that was not like that 1417 01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:33,479 wasn't super obvious until this year. I pushed back against the star stuff. 1418 01:31:33,520 --> 01:31:38,720 I just the the consistency with him, and just like I still don't kind 1419 01:31:38,760 --> 01:31:42,560 of understand what he necessarily is on offense despite the flashes we've seen, And 1420 01:31:42,600 --> 01:31:45,479 maybe that's a function of the Warriors personnel and how it shifted in the lineups 1421 01:31:45,520 --> 01:31:49,199 around him. I don't think they know yet either, to be fair, 1422 01:31:49,239 --> 01:31:54,560 Like I think I think what he what's been true for him from the jump 1423 01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:58,560 is that he's real sure that he is a number one on ball offensive guy, 1424 01:31:58,960 --> 01:32:00,680 and I think that's been in the way for him, Like that's been 1425 01:32:00,720 --> 01:32:04,359 a hindrance to getting opportunities. I don't think the Warriors know yet what they're 1426 01:32:04,359 --> 01:32:06,760 gonna do with him. But it's kind of it again. It is like 1427 01:32:06,760 --> 01:32:11,840 a Thompson's thing where it's like he's so athletic, you just got to sort 1428 01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,680 of figure out how this is gonna work. But yeah, I think that's 1429 01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:17,039 fair. I just I think this. I'm probably biased. I'm not seeing 1430 01:32:17,079 --> 01:32:20,359 it super clearly. I just think I think he has the capacity to be 1431 01:32:21,279 --> 01:32:26,199 like a per like a multi time All star, like two way like wing 1432 01:32:26,279 --> 01:32:29,760 type guy. But we shall see it. Speaking of superstar ceilings, I've 1433 01:32:29,840 --> 01:32:34,920 Duncan Robinson number three. So this is it's probably an atypical choice. But 1434 01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:40,840 when you look at this is someone who is undergone like another reinvention where yes, 1435 01:32:40,880 --> 01:32:44,039 the shooting and the motion on the perimeter is still there. Now he 1436 01:32:44,119 --> 01:32:47,079 is playmaking now. He just has these games where oh, Duncan Robinson's like 1437 01:32:47,079 --> 01:32:50,239 five six assists or whatever it is, and it's it's not just catching the 1438 01:32:50,279 --> 01:32:54,319 ball and then keeping it moving. It's oh, no, Duncan Robinson put 1439 01:32:54,359 --> 01:32:56,920 the ball on the floor, he scored inside the arc. No, he 1440 01:32:57,000 --> 01:33:00,239 was able to leverage that pressure he's putting on in defining the open guy. 1441 01:33:00,279 --> 01:33:04,319 This is someone who's just like he was almost exclusively, just no, don't 1442 01:33:04,399 --> 01:33:08,479 travel inside the arc, just get up these threes to make that type of 1443 01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:12,199 improvement. And also, this is where maybe I'm being unfair here, and 1444 01:33:12,239 --> 01:33:15,720 it's oh, does he deserve to be sort of a comeback player type thing. 1445 01:33:15,039 --> 01:33:17,119 This is someone who looked like he was going to be a detriment the 1446 01:33:17,159 --> 01:33:20,239 past year and a half. Now how are they going to get off this 1447 01:33:20,279 --> 01:33:23,760 contract? Right? And now it's like, oh, is this one of 1448 01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:27,520 the bargain contracts? It helps he's shooting forty percent from three on over seven 1449 01:33:27,560 --> 01:33:30,039 attempts per game, but he's also shooting fifty seven and a half percent on 1450 01:33:30,119 --> 01:33:32,880 a career high and two point attempts. Again, it's only three attempts. 1451 01:33:33,039 --> 01:33:36,560 He's only a two point nine assists per game. But again, like I've 1452 01:33:36,560 --> 01:33:39,680 said, there have just been those games where it's, oh, look, 1453 01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,359 Doungan Robinson has five assists and like, yeah, okay, he came against 1454 01:33:42,399 --> 01:33:46,199 the Pistons. But still so this is just someone who has improved so much 1455 01:33:46,239 --> 01:33:51,399 and added layers, enough layers to his offensive game where I felt comfortable saying 1456 01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:56,319 like we need to recognize that because there's it's almost, yes, the hardest 1457 01:33:56,319 --> 01:34:00,000 thing to do is what j Dubb did, or what you know when you 1458 01:34:00,039 --> 01:34:04,600 go from really good player or fringe star to actual startup like we're talking about. 1459 01:34:04,880 --> 01:34:09,359 This is Duncan Robinson in year six, and he was very much billed 1460 01:34:09,359 --> 01:34:13,840 as this one type of player, and now he's just something that's not completely 1461 01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:15,880 different, because the crux of that game is still in place, but he's 1462 01:34:15,920 --> 01:34:19,760 added a shit ton more and he provided glimpses of it into the playoffs last 1463 01:34:19,840 --> 01:34:23,640 year. But now we're through a regular season and it's yes, some of 1464 01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:26,479 this has been born from necessity, but some of it just makes so much 1465 01:34:26,520 --> 01:34:30,920 fucking sense because now someone who's so dangerous from beyond the arc can leverage what 1466 01:34:30,000 --> 01:34:33,920 he's doing as a playmaker even scorer at points inside the arc when he has 1467 01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:39,840 the ball. I'm not even like just so, I like, I could 1468 01:34:39,840 --> 01:34:44,319 not have forecasted this sort of functional turn from Duncan Robinson. And so maybe 1469 01:34:44,359 --> 01:34:46,720 that shock is weighing in here. But when you take out Jalen Johnson and 1470 01:34:46,720 --> 01:34:50,079 Scottie Barnes, and when you look at I consider Jalen Suggs and I don't 1471 01:34:50,079 --> 01:34:53,520 know if he's yeah, he's hitting his threes, but as he expanded enough 1472 01:34:53,560 --> 01:34:56,960 of his game offensively, there's the full court passing. It would have been 1473 01:34:57,039 --> 01:35:00,199 nice if Denny Avdya kind of played the way had more of the volume that 1474 01:35:00,239 --> 01:35:02,199 he did for most of the season. But it just looking at the crop 1475 01:35:02,199 --> 01:35:05,840 of talent, it was I feel like Duncan Robinson has been the most materially 1476 01:35:06,399 --> 01:35:11,000 measurably different from wire to wire than a lot of other choices. He's not 1477 01:35:11,119 --> 01:35:15,439 on my ballot, but I will say something I'm by the time this goes 1478 01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:17,520 up, I will have filed for br giving awards to every team, and 1479 01:35:17,560 --> 01:35:20,319 I get to like make one up for the for each team and give it 1480 01:35:20,359 --> 01:35:24,680 a name. And my award for the Heat is where did that come from? 1481 01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:27,840 Award? And it goes to Duncan Robinson, And it's all based on 1482 01:35:27,920 --> 01:35:32,640 what you're talking about of like he's got these ridiculous baseline like smitty fake spins. 1483 01:35:32,680 --> 01:35:34,840 He got a star Thompson really bad. It was one of my favorite 1484 01:35:34,880 --> 01:35:39,840 highlights this year. Yeah, like this was not a thing he could do 1485 01:35:40,119 --> 01:35:43,079 before, and so I think, in if we're not going to just do 1486 01:35:43,359 --> 01:35:45,800 maybe this is a good transition into someone we both have on our ballot. 1487 01:35:45,840 --> 01:35:49,439 He's fourth on yours. He's fifth on mind' Tyrese Maxi, who's the betting 1488 01:35:49,479 --> 01:35:56,399 favorite right now? He seems closer to Shangun for me is four. We 1489 01:35:56,439 --> 01:36:00,640 already talked about him. Maxie feels a little too much like the he just 1490 01:36:00,680 --> 01:36:04,840 got more playing time thing, which is a direct contrast to Robinson, which 1491 01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:08,359 and a lot of these other guys that we have higher. I think this 1492 01:36:08,399 --> 01:36:13,119 is why we devalued Maxi is it's like these other guys developed new abilities and 1493 01:36:13,159 --> 01:36:17,279 Maxy his numbers are better, but like ultimately, you know, per one 1494 01:36:17,359 --> 01:36:21,199 hundred, it's a little better, but true shooting is down like not so 1495 01:36:21,279 --> 01:36:25,680 hot without embiid. He's on this ballot just because I think you sort of 1496 01:36:25,680 --> 01:36:29,760 have to put him there. But his case is to me different in kind 1497 01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:31,760 of a meaningful way than a lot of these other guys. So I agree 1498 01:36:31,760 --> 01:36:34,880 with you to some extent, but I do think there's a difference in kind 1499 01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:41,399 of the like there's this down shifting part of his game that I don't think 1500 01:36:41,399 --> 01:36:45,920 he always has. It just lacks a directionality and sometimes a deliberateness when he's 1501 01:36:45,960 --> 01:36:48,279 not going downhill to where can he set up your offense from that perspective, 1502 01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:55,840 but just the jumping usage and the raw numbers without seeing his efficiency being submarined 1503 01:36:56,439 --> 01:36:59,640 his case, had he been able to like bring the sixers to even some 1504 01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,439 of them, the respectability without JoBelle Embiid would be a lot stronger. So 1505 01:37:02,760 --> 01:37:05,600 I don't view him as an outlier on this bout, but I do understand 1506 01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:10,079 what you're saying where it does feel like the meat and potatoes of his game 1507 01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:14,239 doesn't look too much difference, but there is to me enough of a visible 1508 01:37:14,319 --> 01:37:16,760 difference in the way that he's playing improvement or at least, if you want 1509 01:37:16,760 --> 01:37:20,520 to call it, diversification in his game that I'm comfortable having him in my 1510 01:37:20,560 --> 01:37:26,319 top four. I think too you He's he's a much higher percentage of unassisted 1511 01:37:26,760 --> 01:37:29,760 baskets this year, which is just like that, I mean, that's that's 1512 01:37:29,800 --> 01:37:33,239 that matters, because that does speak to like he's having to do things in 1513 01:37:33,279 --> 01:37:36,439 a different way, Like he's not being set up. He's not the third 1514 01:37:36,479 --> 01:37:41,319 guy playing off of you know, a swing, a pick and roll swing 1515 01:37:41,399 --> 01:37:44,760 to a kickout to like a guy's sprinting at him and he's buy him. 1516 01:37:44,800 --> 01:37:48,199 It's like he's creating more stuff. I just still the efficiency dip is pretty 1517 01:37:48,279 --> 01:37:51,239 significant to me. He was sixty point five percent true shooting last year. 1518 01:37:51,239 --> 01:37:55,880 He's down to like below league average now. But but yet, like that's 1519 01:37:55,920 --> 01:37:59,399 gonna happen with a larger role. He's on my ballot. I should stop 1520 01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:01,880 talking about him, but like it's just it's not quite the same thing to 1521 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:05,239 me. Who's your fifth guy. I'm fascinated to hear you make the case 1522 01:38:05,279 --> 01:38:09,640 for this guy, Cam Thomas, which is kind of another player that you 1523 01:38:09,640 --> 01:38:11,800 could say, like the Tyres Maxie jump is, Oh, he got an 1524 01:38:11,840 --> 01:38:15,479 actual role in his scoring skyrocketed, but he has turned into he's up this 1525 01:38:15,560 --> 01:38:19,800 three point clip. This is someone who has been able to draw fouls despite 1526 01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:24,880 not getting to the rim at this huge frequency rate. And then I also 1527 01:38:24,920 --> 01:38:29,560 think that he has maybe it's incremental or marginal, he's gotten better at making 1528 01:38:29,640 --> 01:38:31,279 reads as kind of this passer. I don't think there's been enough improvement, 1529 01:38:31,279 --> 01:38:35,000 at least from what I've seen defensively from him. But when you're looking at 1530 01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,560 his offensive game, I don't think it's ever gonna get to the point where 1531 01:38:38,560 --> 01:38:41,560 he's as well rounded as a Tyrese Maxi, where he's well rounded as a 1532 01:38:41,640 --> 01:38:44,960 Kobe White I want to make that clear. But he's more well rounded than 1533 01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:49,039 he's ever been, and I don't I would take umbrage when people call him 1534 01:38:49,039 --> 01:38:53,119 that, Oh, he's just gonna end up being his microwave sixth man type. 1535 01:38:53,119 --> 01:38:56,199 He might end up that might end up being his best role. Like 1536 01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:59,600 he I think, will get to a point where he can give you more 1537 01:39:00,279 --> 01:39:03,199 like this is not This looks like someone who could be better than a Lou 1538 01:39:03,239 --> 01:39:08,600 Williams, markedly better than a Jamal Crawford. I think he has. There's 1539 01:39:08,680 --> 01:39:11,520 like more of a shiftiness to the way that he's playing, in the level 1540 01:39:11,520 --> 01:39:15,159 of difficulty on his shots. Now it's so young, it makes me wonder, 1541 01:39:15,399 --> 01:39:16,640 okay, Like it feels like there's a point where you know, at 1542 01:39:16,680 --> 01:39:19,479 one of the three levels he can improve a great deal. And then what 1543 01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:23,399 if his passing does hit or just gives you a little bit more of the 1544 01:39:23,600 --> 01:39:26,199 I don't want to say stout defense, but like if he just gives you 1545 01:39:26,239 --> 01:39:30,079 some defense of more defensive playmaking, and that you know he'll be able to 1546 01:39:30,119 --> 01:39:31,800 do that better if he does wind up coming off the bench one day. 1547 01:39:31,840 --> 01:39:36,680 But you're looking at someone who has a usage over thirty with a turnover rate 1548 01:39:36,800 --> 01:39:41,239 below ten, Like, that's just not do you know the other players that 1549 01:39:41,399 --> 01:39:45,239 doing that this season are Shay Gilgess, Alexander and Jalen runs In and so 1550 01:39:45,359 --> 01:39:47,279 like I know that he's not passing as much as those guys. That's still 1551 01:39:47,279 --> 01:39:53,319 really fucking hard. H Yeah, I think I still for him, I 1552 01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:57,720 lean more towards It's just he's just playing more like a lot of his per 1553 01:39:57,720 --> 01:40:00,800 one hunt you are right, like his assists rate it's up, his turnover 1554 01:40:00,880 --> 01:40:03,640 rates down like that, and that matters for someone that is primarily out there 1555 01:40:04,079 --> 01:40:10,119 because of his offensive abilities to just like he's the possessions he's he's valuing possessions 1556 01:40:10,119 --> 01:40:13,119 more like that. That's a big deal. I think his scoring rate is 1557 01:40:13,199 --> 01:40:15,399 like per one hundred it's up, or per thirty six minutes it's up a 1558 01:40:15,399 --> 01:40:20,039 little bit. Hasn't been as efficient this year, even though he's shooting more 1559 01:40:20,079 --> 01:40:25,359 threes, which helps I to me, I don't know. I guess I'm 1560 01:40:25,439 --> 01:40:29,079 less. I'm less in on the idea of him being like a functional defender 1561 01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,119 h long term. But like, the guy's a bucket. I'm not gonna 1562 01:40:32,199 --> 01:40:36,760 knock him. So who you mentioned Adia, that's definitely like I think it 1563 01:40:36,920 --> 01:40:40,079 was. You want to see, you want to hear. Let me see 1564 01:40:40,119 --> 01:40:42,600 if I can do this in one minute. Give you just the list of 1565 01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:46,960 names that don't appear in my ballot that I did consider for this award? 1566 01:40:49,800 --> 01:40:53,439 Is that a no? No? Yeah, I thought you were just gonna 1567 01:40:53,479 --> 01:40:56,800 go for it. J Allen Johnson already mentioned him. Obviously. I had 1568 01:40:56,840 --> 01:41:01,199 Derek White on there, someone I considered I had. I also had Io 1569 01:41:01,239 --> 01:41:04,439 de Soon MoU from Chicago in addition to having Kobe White on there. I 1570 01:41:04,640 --> 01:41:10,560 Max Struce from Cleveland. I also had Isaacacorro from Cleveland. I think you 1571 01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:15,239 could have made a case for in excuse me, in Denver. Peyton Watson 1572 01:41:15,359 --> 01:41:18,079 just like off the low baseline that he was kind of working from. Ky 1573 01:41:18,119 --> 01:41:23,399 Cunningham in Detroit is another name that I gave series consideration too. Did you 1574 01:41:23,399 --> 01:41:26,680 have Haliburton I did for Indy, Yeah, I did. I did think 1575 01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:30,840 about him. I also thought about aaron Ne Smith as well from Indy Golden 1576 01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:33,880 State. I did have. I did have Kaminga the Clippers. Did I 1577 01:41:33,920 --> 01:41:36,239 have anyone from No, I don't have anyone jotted down from the Clippers, 1578 01:41:36,880 --> 01:41:40,560 the Lakers. I think the Ammeel Russell had like a small case. Austin 1579 01:41:40,560 --> 01:41:42,760 Reeves might have had some semblance of a case, but I didn't give them 1580 01:41:42,760 --> 01:41:46,640 too much consideration. I did not have anyone from the Grizzlies on there. 1581 01:41:46,840 --> 01:41:50,720 We know I had Duncan Robinson from the heat ended up there. Didn't have 1582 01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:55,560 anyone from Milwaukee in Minnesota, Na Keith, Alexander Walker, naz Reed. 1583 01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:58,640 Those are two guys that I think you could make the case for as well. 1584 01:41:59,279 --> 01:42:02,359 In New Orleans there's Herb Jones definitely deserves like an automable mention shout out 1585 01:42:02,399 --> 01:42:06,079 in this discussion. In New York, Jalen Brunson for sure, I think 1586 01:42:06,119 --> 01:42:11,800 like that someone, Isaiah Hartenstein, Dante DiVincenzo, just the way the pressure 1587 01:42:11,800 --> 01:42:15,079 he's able to put on defenses with his his shooting. Now in Okay, 1588 01:42:15,079 --> 01:42:17,159 See, I think Sga has another case. He was my pick last year, 1589 01:42:17,319 --> 01:42:20,000 but he has a case again. There's Jay Dubb there as well. 1590 01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:25,399 Orlando. I think Jalen sugs I probably I really thought about putting him on 1591 01:42:25,439 --> 01:42:28,720 my ballot. I think I mentioned that before. Tyrese Maxie and Philly for 1592 01:42:28,760 --> 01:42:31,680 sure. No is there anybody in Phoenick Grayson Allen. I think he improved 1593 01:42:31,760 --> 01:42:36,079 enough defensively and as a shooter. Nobody from Portland, Sacramento, Keegan Murray 1594 01:42:36,159 --> 01:42:41,760 second year player type guy Kean Ellis certainly obviously deserves mentioned there. I did 1595 01:42:41,800 --> 01:42:44,800 have Devin Vessel from San Antonio. I know you were kind of disappointed, 1596 01:42:44,880 --> 01:42:46,399 and you know, I did look at his numbers though again after we talked 1597 01:42:46,439 --> 01:42:49,720 about that, and he has gotten meaningfully better kind of like across the board. 1598 01:42:50,239 --> 01:42:55,720 So that's because he's a future Hall of Famer. But anyway, Scottie 1599 01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:58,720 Barnes and in Toronto definitely deserves to mention. And I guess you could kind 1600 01:42:58,720 --> 01:43:01,039 of throw like if you wanted to, are j Barrett before he was dealing 1601 01:43:01,039 --> 01:43:06,000 with the personal issues the way he was playing in Toronto versus New York and 1602 01:43:06,039 --> 01:43:10,279 then and then Danny Avda in Washington made a great deal. Is there anyone 1603 01:43:10,319 --> 01:43:15,079 on Utah like I guess just Jordan Clarkson because it was passing or most improved 1604 01:43:15,079 --> 01:43:19,520 player love, but which isn't terrible anymore? That helps uh and then conseext 1605 01:43:19,600 --> 01:43:23,199 and just like I don't know if that's most improved player type love, but 1606 01:43:23,239 --> 01:43:26,800 he he just had a hell of a season back to back to Pete keVs. 1607 01:43:27,039 --> 01:43:30,960 Consext In. Uh. The audience though, oh yeah, what do 1608 01:43:30,000 --> 01:43:33,800 we got here? Who did they have here? Their ballot is more reflective 1609 01:43:33,840 --> 01:43:36,399 of yours, by the way, I think for the most part. But 1610 01:43:38,119 --> 01:43:41,920 uh, they had Kobe White at number one, Tyres Maxie at number two, 1611 01:43:42,000 --> 01:43:45,479 j dub at number three, Al prinshang Gun at number four, and 1612 01:43:45,680 --> 01:43:48,720 Sga at number five, so they were in. They actually subscribed to that 1613 01:43:48,800 --> 01:43:54,119 idea that I think he could deserve some love in there also receiving votes from 1614 01:43:54,159 --> 01:43:58,600 them. Jalen Brunson was on the ballot they had there, was Duncan Robinson 1615 01:43:58,640 --> 01:44:01,640 appeared there to Grayson Allen actually got multiple votes. Tyre's Halburton was there, 1616 01:44:02,000 --> 01:44:05,039 Herb Jones got some love. Jalen Johnson, by the way, would have 1617 01:44:05,079 --> 01:44:09,720 finished in the top five of the audience ballot, but he just didn't meet 1618 01:44:09,760 --> 01:44:12,800 the criteria, so I didn't want to throw him on there. Yeah, 1619 01:44:12,800 --> 01:44:15,800 I think that's pretty thorough. I mean, this one I think warranted the 1620 01:44:15,800 --> 01:44:18,479 most discussion because it's so hard to like. There's so many different ways. 1621 01:44:18,720 --> 01:44:23,600 I'm not sure that I've ever deviated from the betting favorite. This late in 1622 01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:26,880 the season. No. I keep thinking about that too. It's like and 1623 01:44:27,000 --> 01:44:29,880 I want to look for reasons to have MAXI higher, but I just can't 1624 01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:31,159 get there. I'm very interesting how it pans out. Do you think he 1625 01:44:31,239 --> 01:44:33,000 ends up winning it? I think he is going to win it. I 1626 01:44:33,039 --> 01:44:35,680 think I think, I think he's like, I don't know what the actually 1627 01:44:35,720 --> 01:44:41,159 I do have it right here. As of today, he's minus three forty. 1628 01:44:41,279 --> 01:44:44,600 Kobe White's second at plus two thirty. Jadab is like way out and 1629 01:44:44,600 --> 01:44:47,279 then Cominga's fourth with like no chance with j dubs odds. Maybe you should 1630 01:44:47,279 --> 01:44:54,119 throw like a plus four thousand. Yeah, it just seems like Maxi's gonna 1631 01:44:54,119 --> 01:44:56,600 get it. I think MAXI like came into the year with the moment and 1632 01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:00,840 for most improved and then just that never changed. You know. Wow, 1633 01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:08,920 we're on the stat padding. Let's do a couple of guests of players before 1634 01:45:08,960 --> 01:45:12,199 we get out of here. I have one queued up. If you would 1635 01:45:12,199 --> 01:45:15,720 like me to start hit me. This is from Austin. Again, clude 1636 01:45:15,760 --> 01:45:18,600 number one. I was drafted in twenty ten. That's it. That's clut 1637 01:45:18,640 --> 01:45:24,000 number. Do you want to take his dad, Tyrek Evans It is not 1638 01:45:24,079 --> 01:45:26,960 Tyrek Evians. I don't think that's the right year. Clue number two. 1639 01:45:27,119 --> 01:45:29,960 I am one of three players from my draft class who are still currently playing 1640 01:45:30,119 --> 01:45:38,239 in the NBA slash NBA G League. Wait twenty ten. There's only three 1641 01:45:38,279 --> 01:45:40,800 guys from twenty ten left? Is that right? That's crazy? Well I 1642 01:45:40,840 --> 01:45:44,960 guess okay, sorry, yeah, go ahead. Clue number three. I've 1643 01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:47,039 played for eight different teams, but more notably, played for one of these 1644 01:45:47,119 --> 01:45:53,560 three teams three different one of these teams three different times, three different times. 1645 01:45:53,560 --> 01:46:01,159 That should be a giveaway. Uh, okay, I don't have it. 1646 01:46:02,039 --> 01:46:05,399 Clue four. In twenty nineteen, twenty twenty, despite having an optimistic 1647 01:46:05,479 --> 01:46:09,159 interest from teams in free agency, I decided to go play one year in 1648 01:46:09,239 --> 01:46:15,359 China for a high at the time four million dollar contract. Nineteen twenty went 1649 01:46:15,399 --> 01:46:20,960 to China three different teams or played for one team three times. That should 1650 01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,840 be like I should have it off that, right? I feel like you 1651 01:46:25,880 --> 01:46:31,239 should have it off of based off who's giving this as well? Oh you 1652 01:46:31,279 --> 01:46:35,159 said this is from Austin. Yeah all right, Well, now I gotta 1653 01:46:35,199 --> 01:46:42,079 think about it a little harder. What pacer you will get it on? 1654 01:46:42,199 --> 01:46:45,640 Clue seven? Oh okay, Well, let's just keep going then Clue five. 1655 01:46:45,760 --> 01:46:47,840 One of the three currently active players in the NBA slast G League for 1656 01:46:47,920 --> 01:46:55,479 my rookie class was actually my teammate my rookie year. My teammate rookie year. 1657 01:46:56,159 --> 01:46:58,479 Now, I'm trying to think of current pacers, and that's clearly the 1658 01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:04,840 really mistake. Correct, I will say that who's been on the pasers three 1659 01:47:04,840 --> 01:47:15,319 times? That feels like you know this? I should shouldn't I? Why 1660 01:47:15,359 --> 01:47:17,039 can't I get it? Uh? Okay, sorry, go ahead, Clue 1661 01:47:17,079 --> 01:47:20,560 six. Like several other NBA players, I attempted my shot at a rap 1662 01:47:20,640 --> 01:47:25,079 career and even put out several songs with Lonzo Ball. I did not know 1663 01:47:25,159 --> 01:47:28,399 this, Lance Stevenson, correct, you knew that. I didn't know that 1664 01:47:28,399 --> 01:47:31,079 about the The final clue, by the way, was while while having many 1665 01:47:31,119 --> 01:47:34,680 meme worthy highlights, my most memorable event was when I blew into lebronzi Or 1666 01:47:34,800 --> 01:47:39,359 during the Eastern Conference playoffs. It's just one of my favorites. I still 1667 01:47:39,399 --> 01:47:43,600 refer to that. That's I love that one. All right, I will 1668 01:47:43,640 --> 01:47:51,000 give you. Let's give you Kmart. I mean one of these is like 1669 01:47:51,079 --> 01:47:55,560 impossible, Okay, I'm gonna give you. I'm gonna give you one. 1670 01:47:55,600 --> 01:47:59,600 I think you'll get uh clue Number one. I was a shooting guard drafted 1671 01:47:59,640 --> 01:48:01,920 in the setecond round in two thousand and five, straight out of high school. 1672 01:48:03,039 --> 01:48:08,000 I was a shooting guard draft in the second round two thousand and five, 1673 01:48:08,079 --> 01:48:12,279 straight out of high school. We may have done this guy before, 1674 01:48:12,479 --> 01:48:18,399 j R. Smith. No good guess though, include number two. As 1675 01:48:18,439 --> 01:48:21,760 a rookie, I averaged six points a night, starting three games and playing 1676 01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:25,840 in forty nine. It's probably not going to help you. No, keep 1677 01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:29,760 going. As a sophomore, my scoring average jumped up to sixteen point five 1678 01:48:29,800 --> 01:48:35,439 and I started fifty three games. They got nothing. In two thousand and 1679 01:48:35,479 --> 01:48:41,159 eight, I signed a six year, sixty six million dollar contract extension, 1680 01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:46,119 but three months later I injured my deltoid ligament and suffered a severe ankle injury 1681 01:48:46,199 --> 01:48:53,239 after a scooter accident. My screw up was that I told the team that 1682 01:48:53,279 --> 01:48:57,680 I was injured playing pickup basketball. The team didn't like that answer. Would 1683 01:48:57,680 --> 01:49:00,079 you say, no, just not Jay Williams. No, No, that 1684 01:49:00,159 --> 01:49:03,760 was like a motorcycle. Yeah. Team didn't like that answer, so I 1685 01:49:03,800 --> 01:49:08,560 was suspended thirty games without pay by the team. Still finished the season averaging 1686 01:49:08,640 --> 01:49:15,479 nineteen points a game. I don't. I'm latching onto the scooter accident too 1687 01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:17,520 much. I mean, that's I thought you could get it on that one. 1688 01:49:17,560 --> 01:49:23,760 I forget it might have been publicized as a moped as opposed to a 1689 01:49:23,800 --> 01:49:31,479 scooter. If that helps it all? All right, ready, clue file. 1690 01:49:31,560 --> 01:49:35,760 Yeah. The following year, my team fell ass backwards into an all 1691 01:49:35,800 --> 01:49:40,399 time great who just happened to also be a lead guard. But I still 1692 01:49:40,399 --> 01:49:45,479 averaged twenty five points a game. Can read that one again. The following 1693 01:49:45,560 --> 01:49:49,079 year, my team fell asked backwards into an all time great who just happened 1694 01:49:49,119 --> 01:49:53,159 to also be a lead guard. But I still averaged twenty five points a 1695 01:49:53,199 --> 01:49:59,239 game. Why don't I know this? Six years, sixty nine million does 1696 01:49:59,279 --> 01:50:01,800 a lot of money for two thousand and eight, two thousand and eight. 1697 01:50:04,800 --> 01:50:09,680 No, you're gonna get it now. This is like I might as well 1698 01:50:09,720 --> 01:50:14,279 just say the name, uh the clue six. We were and this is 1699 01:50:14,279 --> 01:50:15,600 from Mike, by the way, if I didn't say that, uh, 1700 01:50:15,760 --> 01:50:20,039 we were a formidable duo, me and this other lead guard. But ultimately 1701 01:50:20,319 --> 01:50:25,199 the Bay Area was only big enough for one of us. In Monte Ellis, 1702 01:50:25,479 --> 01:50:29,079 Yeah, as I was traded for Andrew Boget Warriors became a dynasty, 1703 01:50:29,119 --> 01:50:35,079 and I continued to be the Skittles of NBA empty calories farm man. I 1704 01:50:35,119 --> 01:50:39,520 was so high on Monte Ellis, like circa two thousand and seven. I 1705 01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:45,159 thought that guy was going to be so great. Are you ready to get 1706 01:50:45,239 --> 01:50:46,880 into the mind of a cycle path? Oh boy, okay, let's close 1707 01:50:46,920 --> 01:50:50,199 it out with this one. Well, I'm gonna give you we have a 1708 01:50:50,239 --> 01:50:56,079 bunch from Mike, so I have given you lead one more after the clue 1709 01:50:56,079 --> 01:50:59,279 one. I was a non American non lottery pick in the early nineteen nineties. 1710 01:51:00,800 --> 01:51:03,800 Draws and Petrovitch, That is incorrect. Clue number two. My best 1711 01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:09,279 career, My best career statistical year was in my sixth season on the Eastern 1712 01:51:09,279 --> 01:51:12,560 Conference team that drafted me, where I averaged fifteen points, five boards, 1713 01:51:12,560 --> 01:51:18,520 and forces while also finishing sixth in Defensive Player of the Year Non American non 1714 01:51:18,640 --> 01:51:28,520 lottery in the early nineties. Yes, okay, all right, what's next? 1715 01:51:28,720 --> 01:51:31,119 Clue three. I went on to being a pivotal player for three NBA 1716 01:51:31,239 --> 01:51:35,720 title winning teams as a versatile three and D forward and a consummate team player 1717 01:51:38,880 --> 01:51:54,119 three title winning teams non American non lottery early nineties. Three title winning teams. 1718 01:51:55,239 --> 01:51:59,319 Oh man, there's only so many of those. Okay, what's the 1719 01:51:59,359 --> 01:52:03,119 next clue? Clue four? I have one of the least interesting transaction sections 1720 01:52:03,159 --> 01:52:06,560 on Basketball Reference. However, the one time I was traded, it was 1721 01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:12,159 with a Hall of Famer and a first round pick for Chucky Atkins, Jermaine 1722 01:52:12,279 --> 01:52:20,000 Jones, Chris Mim. So this guy ends up on the Lakers, Chuckie 1723 01:52:20,039 --> 01:52:27,399 Atkins, Chris Mim Oh man, I'm annoyed now. I feel like I 1724 01:52:27,399 --> 01:52:32,560 should know this. Okay. Five? How many clues are there? Two 1725 01:52:32,560 --> 01:52:36,880 more? Okay, I actually missed on the like I would have gotten it 1726 01:52:36,920 --> 01:52:41,119 on this one, but I missed one of the films that are here. 1727 01:52:41,840 --> 01:52:45,920 During my pro career, I appeared in a trifecta of basketball films. Blue 1728 01:52:45,960 --> 01:52:51,840 Chips, Eddie and He Got Game, Blue Chips Eddie and He Got Game. 1729 01:52:54,479 --> 01:52:57,600 Well, so Blue Love the movie Eddie where Willpi Goldberg coaches the Knicks. 1730 01:52:57,640 --> 01:52:59,880 That was like, oh yeah, I watched Blue Chips a ton. 1731 01:53:00,000 --> 01:53:02,479 Blue Chip is one of those ones that was like on HBO during the summer 1732 01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:05,399 when I was home from school. So, who's in Blue Chips? Penny 1733 01:53:05,399 --> 01:53:11,000 Hardaway's in blue chips, Shack is in blue chips. But there's a non 1734 01:53:11,239 --> 01:53:15,479 I feel like the non American is like potentially, is it like someone from 1735 01:53:15,560 --> 01:53:23,640 Canada, because I'm thinking of like European guys. I don't have it. 1736 01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:27,680 What's what I got? Two more clues? One more clue? Oh boy? 1737 01:53:27,760 --> 01:53:32,359 Okay, final clue with a with a sick five o'clock shadow grant? 1738 01:53:32,359 --> 01:53:35,239 Which is he had? And I got it? Stop it's Rick Fox? 1739 01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:44,239 That is correct? Okay? It was Yeah, a great, excellent red 1740 01:53:44,239 --> 01:53:48,279 herring with the non American thing. Oh okay, now I'm trying to think. 1741 01:53:49,520 --> 01:53:53,680 So he won, Okay, yeah, I guess he got the Lakers 1742 01:53:53,720 --> 01:53:56,680 titles. Yeah he was there. Okay, all right, all right, 1743 01:53:56,760 --> 01:54:00,680 good one. Let me see if I have one more for you just in 1744 01:54:00,800 --> 01:54:06,359 case here. Oh man, this one is so hard. These people are 1745 01:54:06,399 --> 01:54:12,199 just out to get you. I'm just from This is from Rubik scal Oh 1746 01:54:12,279 --> 01:54:18,960 boy, are you ready? Yeah? Okay. One. I was the 1747 01:54:19,000 --> 01:54:29,399 first NBA All Star to be born in Canada. Two. My shot blocking 1748 01:54:29,439 --> 01:54:32,880 prowess earned me the nickname the Big Cat at Kentucky. My two hundred and 1749 01:54:32,920 --> 01:54:38,640 sixty eight career blocks as a four year Wildcat led the Kentucky career Blocks leaderboard, 1750 01:54:38,760 --> 01:54:41,920 even though they only make it to the one hundred and fifty third spot 1751 01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:47,720 on the NCAA D one Blocks leaders list, so that I got nothing. 1752 01:54:48,279 --> 01:54:51,960 Three. I had four good seasons in the NBA, averaging close to ten 1753 01:54:53,000 --> 01:55:00,600 rebounds and ten points ten points per game at my peak Nada all right, 1754 01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:08,199 Canadian big Cat nickname went to Kentucky number four. Never want to shy away 1755 01:55:08,199 --> 01:55:11,199 from a fight, verbal or physical. I could dish out the trash talk 1756 01:55:11,279 --> 01:55:14,840 and the physicality that the two thousands NBA demanded. I once told a reporter 1757 01:55:14,920 --> 01:55:18,039 that KG was a talker who can't back it up on the court. Interestingly 1758 01:55:18,119 --> 01:55:20,920 enough, I was an enforcer in a suit at the time with the Miami 1759 01:55:20,920 --> 01:55:24,840 Heat, the very definition of a talker who can't back it up on the 1760 01:55:24,880 --> 01:55:32,520 court. I don't remember the KG thing. Oh alright, ready, clue 1761 01:55:32,560 --> 01:55:36,560 five. Yeah. I made my only All Star game in two thousand and 1762 01:55:36,600 --> 01:55:41,720 four, averaging ten point three points, thirteen point six points or ten point 1763 01:55:41,720 --> 01:55:45,079 three rebound, sorry, thirteen point six points per game, and one point 1764 01:55:45,159 --> 01:55:56,880 two blocks. So thirteen ten and one All Star four. I don't even 1765 01:55:56,880 --> 01:56:01,199 have like a and they're on the heat at this point, Yes, I 1766 01:56:01,199 --> 01:56:03,760 think so. Well, it was on the heat. He was on the 1767 01:56:03,760 --> 01:56:09,039 heat the previous clue. I'm not sure where though four All Star season came. 1768 01:56:09,680 --> 01:56:11,880 I feel like I'm not even gonna have a guess on this one. 1769 01:56:12,079 --> 01:56:15,199 Yeah, so to the you outa let's see at clue six. I was 1770 01:56:15,239 --> 01:56:18,439 all set to go places the following season when I broke the ring finger in 1771 01:56:18,479 --> 01:56:21,600 my right hand in November. Was never quite the same player, even though 1772 01:56:21,600 --> 01:56:26,279 I did have one productive year at Milwaukee with Michael Red, averaging nine point 1773 01:56:26,319 --> 01:56:33,640 two points and nine point five rebounds in Milwaukee can rebound played with Michael Redd, 1774 01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:38,319 I don't I don't remember that either. He did bounce around a lot 1775 01:56:38,479 --> 01:56:42,920 so last last clue. After a couple of seasons spent bouncing around and three 1776 01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:45,239 more as a full time enforcer and part time backup center for Miami. I 1777 01:56:45,319 --> 01:56:49,880 finished off my career in Toronto in twenty twelve, the first Canadian player to 1778 01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:55,119 play for the Raptors. The first Canadian player to play for the Raptors. 1779 01:56:55,279 --> 01:57:00,600 Why don't I know this one? He bounced around twelve? I think a 1780 01:57:00,720 --> 01:57:08,600 Raptor's biggs. Yeah, it's the only I got here through the Canadian thing. 1781 01:57:08,680 --> 01:57:12,920 I vaguely remembered the Big Cat nickname for some reason. I could picture 1782 01:57:13,000 --> 01:57:16,520 like his basketball reference page maybe and the Kentucky thing. But like this guy 1783 01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:21,399 is I mean you you've heard the numbers. He's like a low double double 1784 01:57:21,439 --> 01:57:25,800 guy that like was tough. I don't even have a guess. Give it 1785 01:57:25,840 --> 01:57:29,960 to me. Does the name Jamal mcglore mean? Oh man? Wow? 1786 01:57:30,239 --> 01:57:31,960 Pretty deep? You've had some deep cuts today. I got a lot of 1787 01:57:32,000 --> 01:57:35,159 deep cuts. All right, let's wrap up with one from Mike. We'll 1788 01:57:35,239 --> 01:57:40,560 do a Bill Walton segment next time, okay. Clue number one. I 1789 01:57:40,600 --> 01:57:44,079 was a lottery pick in ninety seven out of Colgate by Golden State, one 1790 01:57:44,119 --> 01:57:48,359 pick before Tracy McGrady. This is a Donald Foyle. Wow. Not a 1791 01:57:48,399 --> 01:57:55,479 lot of Colgate picks in the NBA. Other clues. I played ninety nine 1792 01:57:55,479 --> 01:57:58,800 games through my first two seasons in the league, starting one. During this 1793 01:57:58,880 --> 01:58:01,840 ban, I averaged three points four boards. Clue three. I played in 1794 01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:09,000 seventy six games in year three, starting fifty nine. DA, what's another 1795 01:58:09,039 --> 01:58:12,800 interesting clue here from Mike. Over the next couple of seasons, my numbers 1796 01:58:12,840 --> 01:58:15,760 remained relatively steady, which led to mesuning a six year, forty two million 1797 01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,800 dollars contract in two thousand and four. Man, that was like peak Warriors, 1798 01:58:18,960 --> 01:58:24,000 I mean in the worst way. The Donald Foyle era off the court. 1799 01:58:24,039 --> 01:58:26,840 I was a political activist and a poet. I did not know he 1800 01:58:26,880 --> 01:58:30,479 was big, very passionate about campaign finance reform of Donald Foyle. It's one 1801 01:58:30,479 --> 01:58:33,960 of his big issues. In twenty thirteen, I wrote my first children's book 1802 01:58:34,039 --> 01:58:38,479 was Clue ten and then Clue elevens. In twenty fourteen, I've started as 1803 01:58:38,479 --> 01:58:42,920 the Warriors community ambassador. That was too quick, So we're gonna do another 1804 01:58:42,960 --> 01:58:45,079 one that he has here. Clue number one. Born in Toronto but raised 1805 01:58:45,119 --> 01:58:49,800 in the Bahamas. I hold dual citizenship. Hmmm, I should be able 1806 01:58:49,800 --> 01:58:57,439 to get this one. You should born Oh is it Klay Thompson? No, 1807 01:58:59,039 --> 01:59:01,560 Okay, go ahead. I attended North Carolina in the eighties and early 1808 01:59:01,640 --> 01:59:12,159 nineties. Born in Toronto, attended the eighties and early nineties. Okay, 1809 01:59:12,199 --> 01:59:15,479 I don't have that. Clo three. I was drafted in the first round 1810 01:59:15,479 --> 01:59:21,399 in nineteen ninety one by the Celtics. Is this Rick Fox again? Yeah? 1811 01:59:21,479 --> 01:59:27,560 That's what? How do we get too? Rick Fox questions. Clue 1812 01:59:27,640 --> 01:59:30,880 eight was a good thing to go when I purchased an esports team but left 1813 01:59:30,880 --> 01:59:34,159 the team after my co owner made several racist comments. Clue nine. I 1814 01:59:34,239 --> 01:59:38,600 might be better known for being in every romantic comedy than I have my time 1815 01:59:38,640 --> 01:59:43,239 as an NBA player. Wasn't he married to Vanessa Williams? I think I 1816 01:59:43,239 --> 01:59:45,600 think that was one of the first she was when she was like Miss America 1817 01:59:45,640 --> 01:59:48,720 one year or something. I'm pretty sure he was married to Venessa Williams. 1818 01:59:49,359 --> 01:59:53,199 Oh who seven was good. My moved to the Lakers helped launch my second 1819 01:59:53,199 --> 01:59:56,720 career, as I started getting major roles in ninety seven playing a basketball player 1820 01:59:56,720 --> 02:00:00,640 turned inmate on Oz. I also was on Fairly Odd Pawer in One Tree 1821 02:00:00,680 --> 02:00:03,079 Hill during my time in the league. Since I retired, I've been on 1822 02:00:03,239 --> 02:00:06,520 Green Leaf and Law and Order. I've also been in movies like Holes and 1823 02:00:06,640 --> 02:00:15,399 Navy Seals Versus the Humpies. Neither neither. Rick Fox one mentioned getting uppercut 1824 02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:18,359 by Doug Christie just right in the jaw. Remember that that was? Oh 1825 02:00:18,399 --> 02:00:20,880 man, that was a good one. You would you like to take us 1826 02:00:20,880 --> 02:00:25,720 out of here? Do you want? Should we do some more? Rick 1827 02:00:25,760 --> 02:00:30,439 Fox trivia before we go or are we good? That's see? How many 1828 02:00:30,439 --> 02:00:33,920 different ways can we give clues about Rick Fox? Everybody? Thanks for your 1829 02:00:33,920 --> 02:00:39,800 contributions, especially to everyone who voted in our awards polls. Super fun to 1830 02:00:39,840 --> 02:00:43,840 get some crowdsourced contrast to our pick, so appreciate that. Appreciate the guest 1831 02:00:43,920 --> 02:00:47,399 players, Appreciate the trivia. Appreciate your listenership to grow that rate, review, 1832 02:00:47,399 --> 02:00:50,039 subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies, spread the word. 1833 02:00:50,600 --> 02:00:54,520 As always, close with a shout out to the one only Frank Milatina. 1834 02:00:54,560 --> 02:01:00,720 In an apology to Jared Allen, look