1 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:21,160 We're back with another edition of the Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Joshinski, 2 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:24,320 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,359 --> 00:00:28,320 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on Twitter at fdr LST. 4 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,200 Make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts into the premium version of 5 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,840 our website as well. Today I'm very happy to be joined by Will hild 6 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:41,520 he is the executive director of Consumers Research. Will thank you for joining us, 7 00:00:41,799 --> 00:00:44,200 Thanks for having me. This is a great day to have you on 8 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:49,520 the program because there's all kinds of news swirling around ESGE, China, Black 9 00:00:49,679 --> 00:00:52,799 Rock, Morgan Stanley. We're going to get into all of it, but 10 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:59,520 before we do, Will you specialize in researching, monitoring the broader ESG project. 11 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,560 You just tell us a little bit about how you ended up in this 12 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,439 line of work. Yeah, absolutely, Well, Consumers Research is the nation's 13 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:11,480 oldest consumer protection organization and we have a ninety plus year pedigree of standing up 14 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:17,519 for the consumer in the marketplace and amplifying their voice as well. And really 15 00:01:17,599 --> 00:01:19,719 that's that's how all this started. About two two and a half years ago, 16 00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:25,719 we started something called the Consumer's first initiative, which is a multimillion dollar 17 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,920 ongoing ad campaign to call out companies who are going woke in order to distract 18 00:01:30,239 --> 00:01:36,200 from their misdeeds in the marketplace or their mistreatment of their customers. And you 19 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,560 know, I'm sure your listeners will recall, especially about two years ago spring 20 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,519 of twenty one, things really had reached like a fever pitch to the point 21 00:01:44,599 --> 00:01:49,719 that you know, dozens, if not hundreds, of major US corporations we're 22 00:01:49,799 --> 00:01:55,000 getting involved in the nitty gritty of election integrity legislation fights in states like Georgia, 23 00:01:55,079 --> 00:01:59,799 Texas and others. And you know, first of all, they were 24 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:04,519 often getting the basic facts of the legislation wrong. People will remember the MLB 25 00:02:04,719 --> 00:02:09,840 moving um the All Star Game from from Atlanta, uh to to Denver's sort 26 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,759 of punishment for for that legislation. And come to find out, you know, 27 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,400 Colorado has more restrictive voting rules than what they were about to pass in 28 00:02:19,479 --> 00:02:22,000 the state of the state of Georgia. So not only were they getting you 29 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,120 know, the basic details wrong, but it was it was often at the 30 00:02:25,199 --> 00:02:30,919 cost of focusing on on their consumers. And so we launched a number of 31 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:36,360 different ad campaigns against companies like Nike, Cocacola, American Airlines MLB, which 32 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,960 I mentioned Ticketmaster in order to call them out for that and and basically say 33 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,719 you need to you need to be focusing on serving your consumers, not not 34 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:49,080 woke politicians. And one of the questions that we got from the general public 35 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,159 a lot is why, and we still get this to this day, is 36 00:02:52,240 --> 00:02:55,919 why are these companies doing this? Why do they seem so focused on insulting 37 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:02,439 their consumers, on poking their customers in the eyes. And we realized we 38 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:07,280 really needed to do some work helping to educate the general public on the influence 39 00:03:07,319 --> 00:03:12,599 of this ESG movement and of big asset managers like black Rock and State Street 40 00:03:12,599 --> 00:03:15,599 and Vanguard and the ways in which they were pushing these companies to engage in 41 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:22,800 this sort of really controversial, noxious, often embarrassing behavior that was so off 42 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:28,879 putting to so many consumers. So the big news is that just today, 43 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,199 actually as we're recording this on Tuesday, the Select Committee on China, to 44 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:36,639 be the one led by Mike Gallagher, which folks have definitely heard a lot 45 00:03:36,639 --> 00:03:43,000 about, is now investigating black Rock and Morgan Stanley and will I imagine you 46 00:03:43,039 --> 00:03:47,960 know exactly why this investigation has been open because you've been tracking it so closely 47 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,759 and are aware of what these corporations have been doing a lot of people know 48 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,400 ESG particularly because of its investments in that kind of broad issue of wokeness, 49 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,000 like the umbrella term of what we call wokeness, what we would call climate 50 00:04:03,039 --> 00:04:09,120 craziness, climate radicalism, and all of that. But the China issue is 51 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,400 huge too, and it opens up that other question of why why on earth 52 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,319 are they doing this? But can you tell us a little bit about just 53 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:20,240 quickly what's coming out of the Select Committee on the CCP right now as it 54 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:25,639 pertains to both black Rock and Morgan Stanley. Yeah. Absolutely, I mean, 55 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,600 basically, the big revelation is the extent to which they have been financing 56 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:33,240 companies that are on the blacklists or red flag lists of a number of different 57 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,800 major US agencies, everything from Department of Homeland Security to the FTCUM. These 58 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:46,879 are companies that the People's Liberation Army of China uses to develop weapons and monitoring 59 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:55,000 software and communications hardware that firms like black Rock have been directly investing in, 60 00:04:55,959 --> 00:05:00,360 even after they've been added on watch lists or even blacklists. They're certain companies 61 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,000 they've been invested in the past where it would be illegal for a US person 62 00:05:03,079 --> 00:05:11,000 to trade with said company because of being on department from Land Securities Blacklist. 63 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:15,399 But black Rocks and black Rocks Sees saw fit to maintain or even sometimes increase 64 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,319 their investment as some of these companies. And this is something that unfortunately we 65 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:25,519 have seen from certain sectors of Wall Street now for at least a decade, 66 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:30,519 maybe longer, where despite all the virtue signaling that they do here in the 67 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:33,959 United States, when it comes to their activities overseas and particularly in mainland China, 68 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:40,639 they're playing by a very very different rule book. And really what you've 69 00:05:40,639 --> 00:05:43,639 been doing at Consumers Research has been the tip of the spear, I think 70 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:47,000 when it comes to black Rock, and has had a pretty serious I mean, 71 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:51,639 basically, people who have heard about black Rock and ESG A lot of 72 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,079 that information is downstream of the work that you guys have been doing. Can 73 00:05:56,120 --> 00:06:00,800 you tell us a little bit because some of it's somewhat amusing actually about the 74 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,839 push that Consumers Research has been making specifically against black Rock against Larry Fink over 75 00:06:04,879 --> 00:06:09,360 the last couple of years. Indeed, it may have even culminated in Fink 76 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:13,800 trying to at least look like he's taking a step back from the term ESG. 77 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,319 Absolutely well. It all started in October of twenty twenty one, when 78 00:06:17,399 --> 00:06:23,199 I mentioned we launched both a call out campaign, brand turnishment campaign, but 79 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:30,199 also a consumer education campaign against black Rock and to inform the general public of 80 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:34,879 the myriad ways in which they were using American investment dollars often individuals, you 81 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:42,680 know, pensioners, university endowments, state pensions money to undermine those very same 82 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,160 people's interest. We've spent about four and a half five million dollars now on 83 00:06:46,199 --> 00:06:49,360 those campaigns. And when we first launched it was funny we did. We 84 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:56,120 did pre polling to kind of understand where people's perception of black Rock, understanding 85 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,160 of black Rock was, and what we found is that you know, basically, 86 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,240 you know, less than one out of ten American citizens could could say 87 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:10,639 that they I knew who black Rock was and correctly identified what black Rock did 88 00:07:10,680 --> 00:07:15,839 as an investment management firm. I dare say the numbers have changed dramatically. 89 00:07:15,079 --> 00:07:17,879 I'm hardened to see. You know, you can barely turn on a podcast 90 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,560 even if it's not about finance or even about politics, and often people will 91 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:26,079 refer to the massive amount of power that Black Rock has, the amount of 92 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,800 ownership that they have of so many major corporations, and then and the many 93 00:07:29,839 --> 00:07:33,040 things that they're doing drive up the costs everything from the gas pump to the 94 00:07:33,439 --> 00:07:38,319 grocery store. And while we certainly can't take credit for all of that, 95 00:07:39,319 --> 00:07:41,639 in fact, I wouldn't want to, I'm glad to see that other people. 96 00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:46,079 You know, there was a video that Ashley Saint Clair at TPUSA made 97 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,959 like a week or two ago that that got like eight and a half ten 98 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:54,199 million views, I think um talking about this issue. We're happy to see 99 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:59,000 that because I really feel like we kind of kicked a snowball down a hill, 100 00:07:59,079 --> 00:08:03,199 and now it's turned into an avalanche of bad press, deservedly bad press 101 00:08:03,439 --> 00:08:07,839 against Black Rock and Larry Fink and the other asset managers like State Street and 102 00:08:07,879 --> 00:08:11,439 Vanguard that are engaging in this kind of behavior, and so that's sort of 103 00:08:13,319 --> 00:08:16,879 where we got started. It's amazing the amount of change that's happened in the 104 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,360 last eighteen to twenty four months since we launched that campaign. People's understanding of 105 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,720 not just that company, but the overall esg complex, and I think adding 106 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,399 into this China piece that Congress is really looking at right now, I think 107 00:08:28,439 --> 00:08:31,919 it's crucial because it allows people to understand, Oh, it's not just that 108 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,080 ESG pushes the companies that serve me to go woke. It's not just that 109 00:08:37,399 --> 00:08:43,039 ESG raises the price of you know, everything I buy in the grocery store 110 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:48,919 and at the gas pump and everything else. It actively undermines US national security 111 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:54,360 as it puts US corporations at a completely uneven playing field with their Chinese counterparts. 112 00:08:54,440 --> 00:08:58,360 In other words, black Rock and other asset managers do not force those 113 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,960 companies to play by the same bull It's not even close. It will finance 114 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:07,080 things like all power plants, natural gas pipelines they're in China, the very 115 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,080 same things that they are trying to shut down and destroy here in the United 116 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:13,919 States. I think it's great that people are Congress in particular, but now 117 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:18,039 the general public is really getting to see, you know, how deep this 118 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,960 rabbit hole goes. And then and the number of things that asset managers like 119 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,840 black Rock have been doing that that are not good for America. Yeah, 120 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,399 so let's talk about the strange tension when it comes to China, because it 121 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:37,120 is on the one hand, interesting that ESG steers so much capital towards directions 122 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:41,080 that are not you know, this is not the natural progression of the free 123 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:48,000 market. It's it's obviously putting elite political priorities, culture priorities over just things 124 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:50,879 winning out in the free market. And then on the other hand, to 125 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:56,200 your point, they're investing in China in ways that they wouldn't invest in the 126 00:09:56,320 --> 00:10:00,799 United States, and that does seem to be a strange tension, or maybe 127 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,480 it's entirely possible there's like a component of this I'm missing, Well, what 128 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:11,679 explains you know why on the one hand they're being so they're they're eschewing the 129 00:10:11,799 --> 00:10:15,840 sort of free market ideology that they claim to embrace, and then on the 130 00:10:15,879 --> 00:10:18,919 other hand, um, they were they'll put all kinds of money in anti 131 00:10:18,919 --> 00:10:24,720 green priorities or you know, bad anti environmentalist priorities when it comes to China. 132 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,679 Yeah, that's a great question. I'm glad you brought up that specific 133 00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:31,840 issue of sort of you know, is this the free market or is it 134 00:10:31,879 --> 00:10:35,200 not? And if not, why not? That's oddly enough, one of 135 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,320 the biggest pushbacks we've we've consistently gotten. Over the last i'd say like six 136 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:45,600 months, has been people on the left actually attacking the anti EESG movement saying, 137 00:10:45,639 --> 00:10:46,879 well, like I thought you guys believed in the free market, and 138 00:10:46,919 --> 00:10:50,799 this is just the free market, so like you know, you're being hypocrites. 139 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,159 Um, nothing could be further from the truth. Larry Fink and black 140 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:58,159 Rock and these other asset managers. You know you've you've probably heard the term 141 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,639 principle and agent, right, you have the principal person. This would be 142 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:07,000 like the client for a lawyer or the individual investor when they listen to an 143 00:11:07,039 --> 00:11:09,559 investment manager, and then that other person is the agent, and that person 144 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,320 is supposed to act on their behalf. We have that in all kinds of 145 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,360 professional services. Your doctors owes you a fiduciary duty, your lawyer owes you 146 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,840 a fiduciary duty, and certainly your asset manager owes a fiduciary duty to their 147 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:26,159 clients, meaning they are supposed to put themselves in the shoes of the client 148 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:30,919 whenever they act using their resources. Larry Fink is not supposed to invest for 149 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:35,320 his own personal opinions or politics, or even his own personal gain. He's 150 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,200 supposed to use the money that's been provided to him by, for example, 151 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:45,000 the Texas State Retirement System or the North Carolina Retirement System, or the University 152 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,440 System of New York, or whoever it is. He's supposed to make sure 153 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,720 that whenever he invests their money, he is focusing on the returns and priorities 154 00:11:52,879 --> 00:11:58,519 for that client, not his own personal priorities. What we've seen over the 155 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,399 last ten years, and particularly when black Rock and Larry Fink, but there 156 00:12:01,399 --> 00:12:05,320 are other other perpetrators of this as well, is probably one of the largest 157 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:11,799 abrogations of that fiduciary duty in the history of the United States. And instead 158 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:18,720 of focusing on returns for those clients, these asset managers have been pursuing both 159 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,519 their own personal political objectives but in some cases their own personal gain with those 160 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,159 objectives, And that kind of explains a little bit. Both of those things 161 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,279 kind of explain a little bit of what black Rock is up to in China. 162 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,720 On one hand, it's incredibly lucrative to invest in some of these Chinese 163 00:12:33,759 --> 00:12:39,360 product projects that they are skewing here in the United States. In addition to 164 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:46,159 that, because China, the CCP is so interested in attracting US investment. 165 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,120 They have been providing black Rock and Larry Fink a lot of bid pro quo 166 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,399 political advantages that other firms don't have in the United States. So, for 167 00:12:54,399 --> 00:13:01,039 example, black Rock was given they were the first company to ever get permission 168 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:07,279 to manage a holy foreign owned mutual fund in mainland China. More recently they 169 00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,679 were in two provinces to the major provinces in China. They were given, 170 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:16,200 ironically, the permission to start managing pension funds in mainland China. This is 171 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:20,440 extremely rare. A lot of people don't realize this, but China has a 172 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:26,000 closed capital account, meaning you cannot as a foreigner going directly invest in in 173 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:33,120 China. They have a period of rules that prevent foreigners, non Chinese citizens, 174 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,159 from buying into the Chinese economy, owning companies in the Chinese economy, 175 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:43,120 running businesses that aren't partially CCP owned in the Chinese economy. And strangely enough, 176 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,120 black Rock continues to find themselves exempted from a number of these rules and 177 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:50,840 get special privileges to operate businesses in mainland China. And it's very clear, 178 00:13:50,879 --> 00:13:54,879 at least to me, that that is a quid pro Quo because he is 179 00:13:54,279 --> 00:13:58,519 black Rock and others are putting US investment dollars in China in some of these 180 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:05,960 same blacklisted companies, US blacklisted companies that Congress says are are helping develop maybe 181 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,679 some of the weapons that they will be used to oppose US forces here in 182 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,919 the future. Is there an argument that this is basically just a smoke screen 183 00:14:15,279 --> 00:14:22,039 or a giant public relations campaign to allow executives to kind of cover themselves and 184 00:14:22,759 --> 00:14:28,039 have things to point to when you know, the sentiments of Occupy Wall Street 185 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,360 and then twenty sixteen bubble to the surface and people are upset about their investments, 186 00:14:33,399 --> 00:14:37,039 people are upset about the economy in general. They can say, look, 187 00:14:37,120 --> 00:14:41,399 we are investing in the future, we're investing in equality, We're investing 188 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:48,120 in not equality, we're investing in equity, etc. Etc. Or like 189 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,200 what is that? Because it is confounding, you know, on the one 190 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,480 hand that you have these sort of self proclaimed proclaimed uber capitalists that are also 191 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:01,559 foregoing profits in some places and not in others. It's just kind of hard 192 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,480 to wrap your head around. Yes, it's a great question, and really 193 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,759 I think what it gets to is that there are different incentives for different players 194 00:15:09,799 --> 00:15:13,600 within the ESG complex for engaging in the scam so uh. And you know, 195 00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:18,240 obviously for Black Rock and State Street and Vanguard, there's there's both the 196 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:22,879 monetary component, but also you know, it's kind of fun to effectively rule 197 00:15:22,919 --> 00:15:26,039 the world, right if you get to run around Corporate America and and and 198 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:31,360 dictate to these people how they're going to operate their businesses and and slap them 199 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:33,759 on the wrist if they don't hit their net zero targets. Um, there's 200 00:15:33,759 --> 00:15:37,039 a lot of power and a lot of excitement, uh in being in being 201 00:15:37,039 --> 00:15:41,720 that powerful. From the corporate executive standpoint, there's also a huge incentive, 202 00:15:41,759 --> 00:15:43,600 and I think you got to this, which is take the E for example. 203 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,799 The E is pretty much solely focused despite the fact that it stands for 204 00:15:46,879 --> 00:15:52,039 Environmental um, it is pretty much solely focused on what they called net zero 205 00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:58,039 by twenty fifty targets, which means making your company h have zero net carbon 206 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:03,759 emissions by the year twenty fifty. Now, that is effectively impossible. The 207 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:07,320 last time humanity was a net zero we were all living in caves, and 208 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,519 that's where we would be again if we were to ever actually get to net 209 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:15,759 zero. But the focus. The sort of fetishistic focus on net zero under 210 00:16:15,799 --> 00:16:25,360 this ESG framework actually helps executives distract from real environmental problems that their company may 211 00:16:25,399 --> 00:16:30,679 have, because they're only really being graded on this net zero progress target. 212 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,679 If you've got issues with you know, groundwater contamination at other types of emissions 213 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:41,240 that you know actually affect human life, these things are papered over if you 214 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:45,200 can say that, hey, we bought a ton of carbon credits last year 215 00:16:45,399 --> 00:16:48,840 and we are on our pathway to net zero, which carbon credits themselves being 216 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,399 a massive scam that even you know, people as far left of John Oliver 217 00:16:52,639 --> 00:16:56,919 have made fun of on how ridiculous they are on his show. So it 218 00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:00,720 actually one of the reasons that corporate America I think has gone along with ESG 219 00:17:00,879 --> 00:17:06,079 scam is that if you are an underperforming executive, for example, you can 220 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:08,599 run to the SG metrics and say, yeah, our last quarters haven't been 221 00:17:08,599 --> 00:17:12,480 so great, we are really crushing it in our ESG metrics, or yeah, 222 00:17:12,519 --> 00:17:15,960 we may have a problem with groundwater contamination at one of our minds or 223 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:18,799 plants or what have you, but we're really crushing it on the road to 224 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:23,319 net zero because we paid a bunch of money to a carbon offset scam last 225 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:30,720 year. And so I think that because that's brilliant, that such a good 226 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:34,319 scam it is. And I will say this, Uh, you know, 227 00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:38,480 some of your listeners are probably familiar with this, this term called a Rube 228 00:17:38,559 --> 00:17:41,960 Goldberg machine. They may not have heard the term, but I guarantee they've 229 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,000 seen one on YouTube. And that's when you see, like, you know, 230 00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:45,880 the little ball goes down down a rail and hits a cup and then 231 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:48,960 it you know, strikes a match and pops a balloon, and you know, 232 00:17:49,279 --> 00:17:52,720 it continue It can continue on for you know, five to six minutes. 233 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,160 It's complex machine, and then at the end it does something you know, 234 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,119 relatively minor. The ESG scam is is a pretty impressive Rube Goldberg machine. 235 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,079 Like they have gotten all of these people at the highest echelons to buy 236 00:18:04,079 --> 00:18:08,240 in for very specific reasons, into the scam because it benefits them, even 237 00:18:08,279 --> 00:18:12,440 though it's at the cost of the shareholders of these companies, of consumers, 238 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,240 of the general public, of our national security. It hurts a lot of 239 00:18:15,279 --> 00:18:21,319 people. But they've kind of found a way to create this complex machine that 240 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,960 benefits some of the key people that they would need in order to operate it. 241 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:27,519 The good news is that, like any any Robe Goldberg machine, it 242 00:18:27,599 --> 00:18:33,720 is incredibly fragile, and once you start pushing on it and enforcing fiduciary requirements 243 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:38,240 looking into antitrust issues, which Congress has also been doing the last few weeks, 244 00:18:38,519 --> 00:18:41,680 the thing starts to fall apart. And we are already seeing that some 245 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:48,000 of the largest b SG coalitions, like that Zero Insurers Alliance, just lost 246 00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:52,519 forty percent of its membership over the last two months because a coalition of Republican 247 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:56,359 ag sent them a letter saying, hey, according to your website, it 248 00:18:56,359 --> 00:19:00,319 looks like you're in a massive anti trust conspiracy. Would you like tell us 249 00:19:00,319 --> 00:19:03,119 a little bit about that? And suddenly forty percent of the members go, 250 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,359 we're not members anymore. So I definitely want to you know, I've obviously 251 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:11,160 described a fairly impressive scheme against the public, made up of some of the 252 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,359 most powerful people in the world. But I don't want to leave any listeners 253 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:18,440 with a sense of disempowerment or inevitability that they are going to win, because 254 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:22,079 the truth is the only reason that they were able to build something like this 255 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,440 is because a lot of people were asleep at the switch when it comes to 256 00:19:25,559 --> 00:19:29,000 enforcement of existing US law, and now that that's no longer the case, 257 00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:42,759 this thing's falling apart more. Check like go have some currents exactly The Watchdog 258 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:47,839 on Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski. Every day Chris helps unpack the connection 259 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,359 between politics and the economy and how it affects your wallet. Are you considered 260 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,599 to be in Generation X? New reports show that Generation X has not saved 261 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,119 for retirement in this age of social media. Do you own your own stuff 262 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,359 or does your stuff own you? Is it time to start making some financial 263 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:06,079 changes to reduce your expenses. Whether it's happening in DC or down on Wall 264 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,039 Street, it's affecting you financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdout on 265 00:20:08,039 --> 00:20:11,599 Wall Street podcast with Chris Markowski on Apples, Spotify, wherever you get your 266 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:18,839 podcasts. I actually want to ask you more about that anti trust question because 267 00:20:18,839 --> 00:20:22,759 it seems to me a lot of this is, I guess, reflective of 268 00:20:22,799 --> 00:20:29,519 the fact that while we fantasize or lionize the markets, the market, economy, 269 00:20:29,559 --> 00:20:33,119 and the system in the United States, especially compared with just about anywhere 270 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:38,119 else in the world, it's harder and harder every year to understand our system 271 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,359 as like free market. We like to drop that word a lot, but 272 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:45,519 esg to me and so reflective of the fact that we really don't have free 273 00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:49,200 markets, and a lot of that also seems to be downstream of these trusts 274 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:53,680 essentially in finance. Is that part of from your perspective, is that part 275 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,200 of this problem too? When you know, are there more robusts or anti 276 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:03,039 trust investigations or merger conversations that need to have to prevent this going forward? 277 00:21:03,759 --> 00:21:06,880 Yeah, I think that's a great question that we should be asking. I 278 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,799 will say I don't think you know, I get accused of sort of being 279 00:21:10,839 --> 00:21:15,640 a conservative who doesn't believe in free markets sometimes and nothing could be further from 280 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:21,319 the truth. Free markets are are their foundation is on the common law rules 281 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:26,720 of for example, fiduciary responsibilities. Securities fraud has long established. No one 282 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:32,079 would suggest that the ability to gauge in securities fraud and lie to your investors 283 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,960 about the way you're investing their money is in any way, you know, 284 00:21:34,039 --> 00:21:37,680 violation of free market principles. And then lastly anti trust. Again, I 285 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,920 don't know if any free market economists who believes that producers of a good or 286 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,440 service, ought to be able to collude owners of businesses, ought to be 287 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,799 able to collude to set the price or supply in the in the market. 288 00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:56,400 And really these are the three prongs areas that really are crying out for enforcement 289 00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:03,480 against this this ESG scam if those things were being properly enforced at the federal 290 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:07,200 level, but increasingly now we're seeing the states, I'm proud to say, 291 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,920 stand up and push back on these on these fronts. If those things had 292 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:15,079 been enforced from the beginning, none of this ESG scam would have would have 293 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:21,000 been put together. So I do think that that ESG is an abbregation in 294 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,160 free market principles. That said, I think that we need to be very 295 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:30,079 careful um to not undermine the pushback by simply saying, well, this just 296 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:33,400 seems like you're getting involved in these in these companies business decisions or or um 297 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:37,960 because you know they're going on websites like Climate Actual one hundred and the Glasgow 298 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,880 Financial Lance for net zero, and the CEOs of these companies are signing documents 299 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,519 saying they will blude with each other, they will coordinate their activities to hit 300 00:22:45,599 --> 00:22:48,839 net zero by twenty fifty, which means restricting the supply of a number of 301 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:53,759 different um uh goods to market. That's a that's a standard you know, 302 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:56,000 anti trust one on one. It's been a long time since I was in 303 00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:00,359 law school, but I do remember, I do remember the basic definit mission 304 00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:06,279 of an intrust conspiracy, and that's certainly would be would be included. So 305 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:15,200 I think that conservatives need to have a faith in the long history of antitrust, 306 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,240 fiduciary duty, and securities law that we have here in this country. 307 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,119 That's why our capital markets are so attractive, because we have property rights, 308 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:26,000 because we have the rule of law. Part of the rule of law is 309 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:30,920 enforcing those laws evenly, and conservatives should not walk off the field of being 310 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,119 the referee in the market. I'm so glad you said all that. I 311 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,839 find it to be one of the most frustrating parts of this conversation about true 312 00:23:38,039 --> 00:23:44,160 conservative economics. Um. You know, there's there's a few things more truly 313 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,839 capitalists than tending to the sort of weeds of the free markets and making sure 314 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,079 there's actually robust competition. Um and yeah, like having faith in the system 315 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,599 if you loosen you know, regulations, but at the same time ensure that 316 00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:02,759 regulations we all agree on and we need to have are being enforced. It 317 00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:07,240 seems like from your telling, it's also Republicans that were asleep at the wheel 318 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,759 essentially for I don't know, maybe a decade plus, as some mergers were 319 00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:14,240 going through, as some of this collision was happening, to your point, 320 00:24:14,279 --> 00:24:18,759 openly on their websites, and now there's this kind of mass awakening, especially 321 00:24:18,759 --> 00:24:22,200 on the Republican side. You've talked about all kinds of actions happening at the 322 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,880 state level. Virtually every Republican Canada is talking about this. When it comes 323 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,880 to twenty twenty four, it has to feel like there's a lot of political 324 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:37,039 momentum on your side right now. Will absolutely I think the brazenness of the 325 00:24:37,279 --> 00:24:40,200 ESG scam. You know, they've been putting on a website, they've been 326 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,119 talking about what they're doing, and so once we highlighted it, I think 327 00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:47,240 people really understand. The other thing is, I'm sad to say this, 328 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:51,559 This is not a good thing, but it has certainly helped in focusing people's 329 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:57,640 attention. Is that the years of under investment in oil and gas discovery and 330 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:03,400 recovery and new mining projects, in new manufacturing projects in the pressure that ESG 331 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:07,920 has put on corporate America to actually deliver for consumers. All of that in 332 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,440 the last you know, year, a year and a half has contributed greatly 333 00:25:12,519 --> 00:25:15,799 to the wave of inflation that we have seen. It's kind of added to 334 00:25:15,839 --> 00:25:21,000 the commodity cycle that we would normally see. Now. Certainly there were other 335 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:26,039 factors, obviously the warreny brain and other monetary decisions that our country made during 336 00:25:26,039 --> 00:25:33,559 COVID, but it's undoubted and doubtful that the under investment, the lack of 337 00:25:33,599 --> 00:25:38,319 capital expenditures that were forced upon a good portion a number of key industries in 338 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:42,039 the United States and elsewhere and some of the other countries in Europe where they 339 00:25:42,079 --> 00:25:48,079 push this ESG nonsense, have contributed to the massive rise and inflation that we've 340 00:25:48,079 --> 00:25:51,799 seen. And so I think it's become a lot easier to point, when 341 00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,680 you know, we've seen you know, five to eight percent inflation per quarter, 342 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:59,519 and to point and say, hey, would you like to know the 343 00:25:59,759 --> 00:26:03,799 way in which these large asset managers, these large banks, these large insurers 344 00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:07,079 have been contributing to this, to making it you know, more costly at 345 00:26:07,079 --> 00:26:10,039 the at the gas pump and at the grocery store. And unfortunately, I'm 346 00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:11,720 sad to say it's it's probably going to continue because even if even if all 347 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:15,279 of us she went away tomorrow, it's the after effects of it are going 348 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:19,799 to be with us for at least probably three to four more years, maybe 349 00:26:19,799 --> 00:26:26,039 longer. So you know, absolutely, it's been great to see the momentum 350 00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:30,400 shift. We just need to keep the pressure on and and fully it's it's 351 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:33,799 not enough just to be outraged. I think sometimes you know, conservatives in 352 00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:37,279 particular, see things that are that are outrageous and they get outraged about them 353 00:26:37,319 --> 00:26:41,839 and then they stop there. And this cannot if if if that's all we 354 00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,559 do, we will not have ended this this nonsense, and we will still 355 00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:48,119 be feeling the after effects. Our kids will be feeling the after effects of 356 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,359 this. So I'm glad to see the outrage, and I'm glad to see 357 00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:55,720 the wind shift. I'm certainly glad to see a number of UM federal and 358 00:26:55,799 --> 00:27:00,680 state elected officials taking significant action, particularly the Treasure and ags across the country, 359 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:04,000 and conservative states have been have been pushing back in a huge way. 360 00:27:04,599 --> 00:27:07,680 I just want to make sure we finished the fight and so that this this 361 00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:11,880 ends now and can ever be put back together again? Is it bipartisan on 362 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,640 the state level at all? It seems like such an obvious bipartisan target, 363 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,799 but nothing really is in this political climate. But have there been any has 364 00:27:18,839 --> 00:27:22,480 there been any cooperation from Democrats or even any interest from Democrats and pursuing this. 365 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,799 Yeah, we are absolutely seeing some some bipartisan interests both at the state 366 00:27:26,880 --> 00:27:30,720 and the federal level. Um, you may recall back at the federal level, 367 00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:36,799 I believe Senator's mansion and tester across the aisle in order to vote to 368 00:27:36,839 --> 00:27:42,799 get rid of that noxious Department of Labor rule that basically allows would allow managers 369 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,160 of union pension funds and other private sector pension funds to implant their own political 370 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,000 judgment for their fiduciary dude. So there were some at the federal level in 371 00:27:52,039 --> 00:27:55,079 the form of those two sentators. But then at the state level, in 372 00:27:55,119 --> 00:28:00,440 both Kansas and Kentucky, we've seen two states pass very strong anti SG legislation. 373 00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,039 I believe one both of those states have democratic governors. One of them 374 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,079 allowed it to one of them signed it, and then one of them in 375 00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:12,599 their states allowed it to pass in the law by just not vetoing it and 376 00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,319 after certain number of days it just becomes lagged and sign it directly. So 377 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,559 we are seeing some bipartisanship. And to be clear, I've spoke I am 378 00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:26,359 personally conservative, but Consumers Research is a nonpartisan organization and we would love to 379 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,759 see this increasingly become a barpartisan issue. I don't think there's anything particularly partisan 380 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:37,440 but making sure that Wall Street fatcats don't raise the costs for everyday Americans because 381 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,039 they want to implant their own political judgment and curry favor with the Chinese Communist 382 00:28:41,039 --> 00:28:45,200 Party in the ways that they're throwing around investment dollars. That's said, I'm 383 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:51,319 realistic about how much how much that's really going to occur, because the part 384 00:28:51,319 --> 00:28:56,240 of the whole ESD grift is in it is pushing the priorities of the far 385 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,279 progressive left wing of the Democratic Party without ever having to Basically, you can 386 00:29:00,319 --> 00:29:07,000 circumvent the ballot box by doing it through corporate American just implanting this through the 387 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:11,000 corporation and corporate policy. So you know, I'm I am very hopeful to 388 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:14,720 see that there have been some some folks crossing the aisle, or at least 389 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:18,119 not fighting it, but also to some extent this this is going to come 390 00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:23,599 down to party lines because the grift itself is designed to benefit the Democratic Party. 391 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,759 M absolutely can we zero in on the price increases too, for just 392 00:29:29,119 --> 00:29:33,599 a moment, because I know that you've tracked that pretty closely when looking at 393 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:38,160 energy prices, when looking at even grocery prices and the sort of basket that's 394 00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:45,799 used to calculate inflation. What does ESG contribute to? This is a huge 395 00:29:45,839 --> 00:29:51,000 question because ESG is obviously in and of itself huge, as you've outlined very 396 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:56,799 well. But what does it contribute to Let's put it this way, what 397 00:29:56,839 --> 00:30:00,720 does it detract from average Americans earning you know, on a weekly, monthly, 398 00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:04,599 yearly basis? Right, Well, it's it's hard to calculate in numerical 399 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,640 terms because obviously you get into the econometrics, and I'm a lawyer, not 400 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,559 an econome atterstment, so I won't I won't take a stab at that. 401 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,480 I know that there have been studies that have looked at some of the long 402 00:30:15,559 --> 00:30:18,920 term effects of a VSG under investment, and then you see specific examples of 403 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,920 where it's had an impact. So I believe there's a company called Rice stat 404 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:26,920 Energy, it's a consulting firm, and noted that in twenty it was either 405 00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:32,920 twenty twenty or twenty twenty one marked the lowest year for new oil and gas 406 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,799 discovery in seventy five years that they had been tracking. We have data for 407 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,359 it. So it was literally the worst year for new oil and gas discovery. 408 00:30:41,359 --> 00:30:45,160 And one of the things that the report noted was because that was partly 409 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:49,960 due to a decrease in capital expenditures, firms were being pushed not to invest 410 00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:53,440 in new oil and gas discovery and recovery. And you don't have to take 411 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,400 my word for that. If you go to a to the organization Climate Action 412 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,480 one hundred, of which Black Rock and State Street our members at least today. 413 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,359 They their entire mission is to push companies towards net zero and one of 414 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,559 the things that they grade them on is how is their capex, their capital 415 00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:15,680 expenditures, how much money they spent going after new fossil fuel projects. And 416 00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:18,759 so if you if you the more you spend, the more they will grade 417 00:31:18,799 --> 00:31:22,599 you poorly. And they threaten on their website, or at least they did 418 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,839 since since we've been after them, that a lot of edits have been made 419 00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:29,519 to a lot of these websites. But if you go in the way back 420 00:31:29,559 --> 00:31:32,160 machine and look at look at what they were saying in twenty twenty. They 421 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,400 grade these companies and if if they misbehave, then they will look at all 422 00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,440 kinds of things like shareholder proposals, replacing members of the boards of directors, 423 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,000 even executives. They did this specifically at XON. In twenty twenty one, 424 00:31:45,079 --> 00:31:49,720 Black Rock contributed to the election of three radical environmentalists to the board of XON 425 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,359 to push them harder in their net zero direction. Now, in terms of 426 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:59,240 how that affects the average person, it's a simple supply and demand. As 427 00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:05,400 these companies make fewer investments in new and bringing new supply online, that downstream 428 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,079 affects supply over a number of years. You don't see it right away, 429 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,039 obviously, because these are multi year projects. Some of these projects take five, 430 00:32:12,279 --> 00:32:15,839 six, ten years to come to fruition. They're massive projects. But 431 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,440 when they don't happen, when they never start, okay, you create a 432 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:22,279 shortage of fossil fuels. But it's not just there. Let's talk about let's 433 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:27,079 talk about at the grocery store as well. Net zero gets a lot of 434 00:32:27,079 --> 00:32:30,440 focus on the fossil fuel side, but it is also very focused on changing 435 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,640 the way we do agriculture here in the United States and abroad. One of 436 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,039 the things that they want to get rid of is synthetic fertilizers. Synthetic fertilizers 437 00:32:39,039 --> 00:32:44,000 make up about seventy to eighty percent of the fertilizers used in the United States 438 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,240 and across the globe. They are the reason that we can support the amount 439 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:51,359 of people that we do at the lifestyle that we do. In fact, 440 00:32:51,519 --> 00:32:55,240 but their invention led to a Nobel Prize. The haber Bosch process that uses 441 00:32:55,319 --> 00:33:00,640 natural gas to create nitrogen fertilizers led to a literal Nobel Prize. These are 442 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,839 the things that black Rock and State Street and Vanguard are on record wanting to 443 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,519 get rid of. In addition, you have energy costs. For example, 444 00:33:07,839 --> 00:33:12,759 black Rock is stated that they helped push companies publicly traded utilities to set early 445 00:33:12,839 --> 00:33:16,359 retirement dates on all of their coal and natural gas powered plants. Okay, 446 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:22,960 so they're forcing these companies again through these mechanisms like sharehold proposals and board of 447 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:29,279 director replacements, to accept putting early retirement dates on perfectly working plants just to 448 00:33:29,279 --> 00:33:32,920 give your listeners some understanding of how much an effect that could have. Sixty 449 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,400 five percent of our energy here in the United States either comes from coal or 450 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:44,160 natural gas power plants. The rest is mostly nuclear and hydrogen hydroelectric, very 451 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:50,359 very little of it it comes from these so called green renewables, although they're 452 00:33:50,359 --> 00:33:52,839 neither green nor renewable. That's a conversation, a lot longer conversation to have 453 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:58,440 most of our energy comes from fossil fuels and will will for the foreseeable future 454 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:00,759 until innovations are made. It probably probably in nuclear technology. And so as 455 00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:07,440 they're forcing these companies UH to these utilities to close these plants, that's going 456 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,960 to raise that already is raising the costs of energy or consumers. So they 457 00:34:12,039 --> 00:34:14,119 hit you at the grocery store, They hit you when you get your power 458 00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,039 bill, they hit you with at the gas pump. Um. They want 459 00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:21,159 to force every airline to switch over to you know, even seeing United has 460 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,159 has commercials about how they're going to do this. They switch over to sustainable 461 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:30,239 aviation fuel. Those fuels are two to five times more expensive than existing jet 462 00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,239 fuel, and jet fuel is about a third of the cost fuel costs but 463 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:36,159 a third of the cost of running an airline. So imagine take a third 464 00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:38,840 of the cost of running an airline now double to quintumple it. What is 465 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:43,280 that going to do to the price of an economy ticket to go from you 466 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,599 know, New York to California or or you know, Tampa to Juno. 467 00:34:46,039 --> 00:34:52,119 Uh, it's it's you know, flying used to be an item only that 468 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:54,039 the you know, it used to be a luxury item that only the most 469 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:58,360 wealthy in the United States could afford. And it looks like you know, 470 00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,039 black Rock and others would like to go back to those days. So you 471 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:05,360 know, I think I probably canvas. But it's really myriad because there's not 472 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,400 really an industry that that ESG doesn't want to touch and make more expensive and 473 00:35:08,519 --> 00:35:14,519 less efficient. I want to talk about pensions. David Sirota is a journalist 474 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:19,599 from the left and actually has been tracking PE pension performance for a long time 475 00:35:19,679 --> 00:35:28,519 because so many states have diverted or have directed their pensions to PE firms and 476 00:35:28,599 --> 00:35:31,880 investments. And his contentions has basically been that in a lot of cases PE 477 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,760 was underperforming for a long time. I imagine now in the era of ESG, 478 00:35:37,679 --> 00:35:45,920 information suggests there's pretty serious underperformance. When you see American retirees money being 479 00:35:45,039 --> 00:35:53,039 invested in China or in environmentalists, the private jet environmentalist sects different priorities. 480 00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:59,280 What has the routing of pension dollars looked like in the era of ESG will 481 00:35:59,679 --> 00:36:01,800 Yeah, that's a great question, and it gives me an opportunity I think 482 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,480 to to you know, clue your listeners into something that I think is very 483 00:36:06,599 --> 00:36:09,199 vital for this ESG fight because Wall Street one of the things they try to 484 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:14,679 do when they when when you hear that your pensions are being utilized against your 485 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:19,960 interest being pushing ESG objectives is often the money that Black Rock and other asset 486 00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:23,760 managers just managing for these big state pension funds. It is not being put 487 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:28,280 into ESG funds that have ESG in the title. In other words, if 488 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,920 you go on to Fidelity or your brokerage account or whatever and look up all 489 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:35,760 the ESG funds, your pension dollars in your state, if especially if you 490 00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:42,920 live in a Republican dominated state, probably aren't directly invested in ESG funds as 491 00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:47,159 such. What they are in are index funds, broad ones like the SP 492 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:54,119 five hundred index that black Rocks still uses those assets to push an ESG agenda. 493 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,760 So what it looks like from black Rock's perspective is, let's say, 494 00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,119 like a state like South Carolina, for example, They've got about nine and 495 00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:05,679 a half billion dollars at last look invested with black Rock, and I don't 496 00:37:05,679 --> 00:37:09,119 believe any of that is actually in a ESG titled fund. Most of that 497 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:13,559 is probably in very vanilla investments that are just normal, you know, the 498 00:37:13,599 --> 00:37:16,400 whole the whole economy. But when black Rock does, you know, one 499 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:21,239 of the thousands of what they call corporate engagements a year, meaning meetings with 500 00:37:21,559 --> 00:37:25,280 the leadership of these different corporations whose stock they owned, their control so much 501 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,800 of. They don't say, hey, we're here representing the point two percent 502 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:35,000 of your shares that we control that are invested in ESG funds. No, 503 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,039 no, no, no. They walk in and they say hey, Xon, 504 00:37:37,199 --> 00:37:42,039 Hey BP, Hey Chevron, hey, Monsanto. Here, you know, 505 00:37:42,079 --> 00:37:45,440 whatever the corporation is that they're meeting with. They walk in, we 506 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,039 go, hey, if you look at our entire asset portfolio, we control 507 00:37:49,199 --> 00:37:52,159 you know, eight to ten to fifteen whatever it is, percent of your 508 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,800 outstanding shares right voting shares, and we've noticed that you're not on track to 509 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:02,519 hit your net zero targets. You're not on track to hit the race based 510 00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:07,559 and sex based quotas we have set up for your board. You didn't change 511 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:10,320 your logo to rainbow colors in June, so we're gonna have to hit you 512 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,679 for the ass. They don't specify that they're only they're representing a small portion 513 00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:20,360 of their portfolio that tens funds. They walk in building the cudgel of every 514 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:24,400 single share that they have in assets under management, and so South Carolina's pension 515 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:29,039 fund assets are being used to push a political agenda, whether those funds are 516 00:38:29,079 --> 00:38:32,880 invested in any named ESG fund or not. That's just at a broader point. 517 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,800 One thing people should be aware of is much like kind of fight on 518 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:38,920 critical race theory. Critical race theory is a brand name. There are actual 519 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:43,480 textbooks that have like critical race theory, you know, TM or R or 520 00:38:43,519 --> 00:38:46,920 whatever. Okay, but we know that the phenomenon of critical race theories much 521 00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,480 larger than that. In education, you can have a book that doesn't say 522 00:38:50,519 --> 00:38:52,960 CRT that still has stuff about you know, white supremacy system you know, 523 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:58,000 systems of white supremacy and how America has an original scent of slavery. And 524 00:38:58,079 --> 00:39:00,679 you know, we can never cast that we're always be a racial, a 525 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:07,000 racist a country, and we would still obviously recognize that's that's CRT, just 526 00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:10,639 just not named as such. ESG is the same way. Here's here's the 527 00:39:10,639 --> 00:39:16,079 real definition of VSG. ESG is anytime the financial services industry uses their market 528 00:39:16,119 --> 00:39:21,440 power to push a far left progressive agenda. And that is being done whether 529 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,119 whether money is at an ESG fund at black Rock or a normal fund at 530 00:39:25,119 --> 00:39:29,920 black Rock, and so that people went in these you know, people who 531 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:32,480 live in these states that have money with black Rock need to understand that whether 532 00:39:32,639 --> 00:39:36,840 you know, when they talk to their representatives, they need to say, 533 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,199 I don't want any money at any firm that's pushing these far left progressive agendas, 534 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,840 not just I don't want it an ESG funds specifically, and they need 535 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:45,880 to look at when they're looking at their own four or one ks or their 536 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,079 own individual brokerage accounts. That's another thing they need to understand. If they're 537 00:39:49,079 --> 00:39:52,239 in the I Shares SMP five hundred index fund, which is the black Rock 538 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,639 branded fund, they are in an ESG fund effectively because black Rock has committed 539 00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:59,920 to using one hundred percent of the shares they control to push an ESG agenda. 540 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,960 Well, I actually want to finally ask about Budweiser and this example that 541 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,119 everybody is now familiar with of them sending a couple influencer can as to Dillan 542 00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:12,519 mulvaaney having a top marketing executive out there talking about how they need to shed 543 00:40:12,559 --> 00:40:15,400 their frat boy image for the future. Obviously, for a lot of people 544 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:21,280 this looks absurd because it seems to be so out of whack with Budweiser's image. 545 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,480 You know, they are the I mean, they probably intentionally want a 546 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,920 fraddy image, and they appeal to you know, sort of middle class normal 547 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,800 Americans, probably particularly to particularly to normal American men, and so from a 548 00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,280 business perspective it seems absurd. But the contention from the ESG perspective is that 549 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:45,000 Budweiser does their sort of math and finds that it's more valuable for them to 550 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:54,199 attract investment dollars by scoring high on ESG marks, like literally on scorecards for 551 00:40:54,239 --> 00:40:59,840 that or even just being able to attract investments because they're able to tout the 552 00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:05,880 as you know, equity or social responsibility or something to that extentum and by 553 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:09,239 getting those investments, it's going to outweigh any business they lose for a month 554 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:14,280 during a boycott. Um. You know, they understand that it'll be shortlived, 555 00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,559 or they hope that it'll be shortlived, something like that. I don't 556 00:41:16,599 --> 00:41:20,880 know that we'll we have a clear answer from Budweis yet because they're certainly not 557 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:27,079 going to be honest about what happened behind the scenes regarding these decisions. But 558 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,039 from your perspective as somebody who watches this very closely, I don't know if 559 00:41:30,079 --> 00:41:35,199 what I just described as accurate. But will what did what did you make 560 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:38,239 of that entire dust up? And does it say anything about ESG? Yeah, 561 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:44,800 I think it absolutely speaks volumes about the incentives that corporate America now now 562 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,800 faces. Uh. You know, part of part of what's going on is 563 00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:57,880 ESG has pushed companies to build and enlarge their dye departments and uh, you 564 00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:00,719 know, especially with the race and sex based quota system that Larry Fink is 565 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:07,559 on record saying he was forcing companies uh to to to implement. Um. 566 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:10,960 It's not just about the flow of capital in the words like the actual stock 567 00:42:12,039 --> 00:42:15,400 price of a company, you know, going up or down because Larry Fink 568 00:42:15,559 --> 00:42:20,800 or State Street or Vanguard want it to or not. It's actually about personnel 569 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,000 being able to be replaced. Because like just if you take State Tree, 570 00:42:24,119 --> 00:42:29,159 Vanguard, and black Rock and add add up their holdings, they would be 571 00:42:29,199 --> 00:42:32,239 the largest single shareholder in ninety percent of the SMP five hundred. And if 572 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:37,480 you're the largest shareholder in any company, you can dictate a lot of the 573 00:42:37,519 --> 00:42:40,400 way that that that company operates. You can, you know, usually get 574 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,519 rid of one or more of their board of directors. You can obviously use 575 00:42:45,559 --> 00:42:50,079 that to impact who's who's you know still working in the in the C suite. 576 00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,360 So what I think you've seen is a number of executives who they may 577 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:58,159 worry about declining sales, they may worry about the impact that that their decisions 578 00:42:58,159 --> 00:43:00,519 will have on consumers, but in turn keeping their job. And this gets 579 00:43:00,559 --> 00:43:04,320 back to the your statements about you know, are we still operating a free 580 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,960 market? You know, you and I were led to believe that the free 581 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,119 market was like, oh, you know, if sales go up, then 582 00:43:08,119 --> 00:43:12,039 the person in charge gets rewarded. If sales go down, then they're supposed 583 00:43:12,079 --> 00:43:14,480 to get punished. Or get paid less or get fired, you know, 584 00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:19,400 if it goes on long enough. Really, what these executives have to worry 585 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,920 more about over a shorter period of time is whether they've kept Larry Fink in 586 00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:27,960 Black Rock happy, right. And so when you see a situation like what 587 00:43:28,079 --> 00:43:31,639 happened at Budweiser, I'm sure they wish that it hadn't created the backlash that 588 00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:36,280 it did. But you imagine if if if this had been any kind of 589 00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,880 other failure that had led to a twenty five percent or thirty percent decline in 590 00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:43,840 the sale of their of their flagship product, that CEO, that C suite 591 00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,079 would already be gone. In fact, in fact, I think initially they 592 00:43:46,119 --> 00:43:49,800 weren't even going to fire the marketing woman you were talking about. They were 593 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:52,320 just gonna put her on leave and kind of try and wait for it to 594 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,079 blow over. I think what that reflects is that when you think about what's 595 00:43:57,119 --> 00:44:00,559 really driving the decision making at some of the largest companies in the United States, 596 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,199 it's not the sort of econ one oh one of how do we sell 597 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,639 more widgets right, or how do we make our consumers you know, buy 598 00:44:07,639 --> 00:44:13,079 our widgets over over our competitors increasingly it's you know, I get paid, 599 00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,880 you know, eight figures a year to sit in this C suite position. 600 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:21,599 How do I keep Larry Fink and black Rock and State Treat and Vanguard happy 601 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,000 so that I can continue to just maintain this lucrative position. And so I 602 00:44:25,039 --> 00:44:29,639 think it leads to the kinds of disconnects you're seeing, Uh, not just 603 00:44:29,679 --> 00:44:31,960 at Budweiser, but at Target and all these other companies, and and you 604 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:37,800 mentioned before it's something about them that blaming their employees. That's another little trick 605 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,239 that I want to clue in your listeners to be careful of. These companies 606 00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:45,960 are so large, you can find there's probably avowed Marxists working there too, 607 00:44:45,039 --> 00:44:50,639 somewhere in the company. What does that have to do with making a decision 608 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,840 to to to insult the values of your consumer base? You know, Doug 609 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:59,800 Parker tried to do this at American Airlines. Disney has tried to do this. 610 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:04,400 And they try to the C suite or the CEO tries to offload responsibility 611 00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,320 for their own decision making by simply saying, well, I was just listening 612 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,159 to my employees. I've yet to see a single one of those CEOs trot 613 00:45:12,199 --> 00:45:16,199 out any evidence that he canvass the entirety of his workforce. What they mean 614 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,639 is, I talked to my marketing guy, Okay, I talked to my 615 00:45:20,679 --> 00:45:23,920 super woke head of d EI, and they thought this was a great idea. 616 00:45:24,079 --> 00:45:27,880 So I'm just gonna say I'm doing it on behalf of my employees when 617 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,519 what they're really talking about is a very small segment of their C suite or 618 00:45:31,519 --> 00:45:36,960 their or their leadership. Right. I doubt that the baggage handlers at American 619 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:43,119 Airlines who were got laid off because Doug Parker mismanaged American Airlines really felt better 620 00:45:43,159 --> 00:45:46,000 about it because he weighed into the election integrity fight in Texas. And I 621 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:51,519 imagine the people who are now whose jobs are on the chopping block at Disney 622 00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:55,480 as that company continues to crater, really feel better about it. You know, 623 00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:58,880 people working in the park that make it, laid off people at ABC. 624 00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:00,639 When they sell the company, it probably has to go through your organization. 625 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:05,400 I doubt they feel any better about it because Iger Uh, you know, 626 00:46:05,519 --> 00:46:08,000 is going out there and fighting some woke fight in Florida against Asanta. 627 00:46:08,079 --> 00:46:14,000 So I think people need to take any of those claims with an extremely skeptical 628 00:46:14,159 --> 00:46:19,519 look. And I do not let the c suite these fatcats CEOs, you 629 00:46:19,559 --> 00:46:22,280 know, just offload that they're the guy in charge. They're the guy in 630 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,960 charge. Don't let them point to say I spoke to some unnamed employees and 631 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,079 they wanted me to do this, So it's not really me. I'm just 632 00:46:28,119 --> 00:46:32,480 reflecting the company, right, What a way to run an economy? Will 633 00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:37,880 Hild thank you so much for your time. Where can people find out more 634 00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:43,440 information about Consumers Research? People who would like to learn more about the companies 635 00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,960 that we've gone after and the ESG scam can visit us at consumers Research dot 636 00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:51,400 org. That's consumers Research dot org. And if you really just want to 637 00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:54,079 learn about Blackrock, I've got news where you can go to about blackrock dot 638 00:46:54,079 --> 00:46:59,239 com. That's about blackrock dot com. Learn more about about them. There 639 00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,400 you go. We will thank you so much for joining the show. Thanks 640 00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:04,639 so much for having me. This is great. Oh of course, I'm 641 00:47:04,679 --> 00:47:07,960 Emily Joshinski, culture editor here at The Federalist. We'll be back soon with 642 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:16,840 more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious for the fray