What up? Everyone? Welcome back to the dragon Ball Version podcast. Today
we are discussing morow chapters the dragon Ball Supermonga up to chapter sixty seven is
today's episode, and then in two weeks we're gonna discuss the rest of the
dragon Ball Supermonga. So we're gonna catch up and all that granola stuff.
And then we're also going to be as a bonus watching the Dragonball Evolution movie
and sharing our thoughts as a little bonus for that episode. So can't wait
for that. That's gonna be fun. And what else stood out to you
this time around? Ray? First thing, I actually read manga. I
mean it's been a while, so that was an interesting experience because it's something
I haven't done so far for the show. Yeah, is read you have
the right to left down right? I hope? So o geez. It's
like they defeated the guy and then you know, then it got I thought
it was one of those like reverse chronological things where they show the end and
then they end up telling them how they go out there. No, I
figured that out. And the good thing is, like I read it online
and I was even telling you, I'm really impressed with how you could find
a lot of manga online, so a lot of resources out there, I
could find the manga and for a lot of these, like manga viz dot
com for like two bucks a month or something crazy, you can have access
to like hundreds, one hundred chapters a day of like Dragon Ball, Naruto,
like all the popular showing and ones we cover a lot on the on
the Enemy Up War channel, but also on the podcast. You honestly can't
be that price, Like I'm sure like maybe they have an even like an
app or something that you could read it more comfortably on your phone. But
yeah, who knows, if I end up again Explore or more Manda,
I might end up purchasing that because yeah, I mean it's a pretty cool
idea. But anyways, what I thought about the entire arc, I mean
it was interesting that we got some things I did really enjoy, Like that
transformation, we got silver hair. This time we have Vegeta who's really growing
as a character. Like I found in this arc, he really grew compared
to just where he started back and driving. This one had a lot of
Vegeta shining moments. So that was cool. Um making Boo relevant. I
know, like it wasn't necessarily boo as being that star that Lord of Lords,
but making him relevant was interesting. Um we get kicking ass there in
the form yeah, of the Lord of Um. Yeah, so that was
pretty cool. And then also, like we've talked about how super has a
lot of that fan fiction and like reference to the past, and I definitely
saw that through the characters of like Morrow. You saw some kind of cell
like qualities about him in terms of absorbing energy. Oh yeah, definitely.
And you also have like even the design the face like after the seven three,
if that's correct, the absorption he takes on cell like qualities around the
phase area. Yeah, and you even like you got some of those Freezer
vibes back in the Namic saga where he's going around invading the different Namechian Camps,
like you get all those kind of flash. He had a unique feel
to him in the sense that what he did was he went around and absorbed
planets. But if there were strong opponents. He wasn't like Freeze, who
was scared of the potential of saying so he wanted to wipe out all sands.
This guy's like let him roam like wild stock, you know. And
then eventually they'll get stronger and I'll be able to eat him. So his
his a cockiness was on another level compared to even Freeza. Yeah, he
understands he has to play the long game with some of them, because even
at one time when they're like, oh they're Vegeta and Goku are coming or
they're still here, and he's like, oh, yeah, they'll get stronger
and then eventually I'll just absorb them. So he's thinking ahead and that's one
of his strategies. But yeah, obviously, yeah, he's thinking ahead in
the sense of like also being cocky, right, because someone thinking ahead might
be like, bro, let's nip this in the bud, right, Yeah,
but he's like just cocky and yeah, he's ten million years old,
right, And for some reason that's he viewsed that as like a big deal.
And I mean it is, it is a big deal, but he
views it as like, Yo, how could this race the sayings that came
like came into existence only a few million years ago or a million years ago
or less than a million, I don't all the exact number, but he's
like, how could they threaten or beat me? So it's like all of
a sudden because he's been around for ten million years. He feels like everyone
younger than him is inferior. Yeah. Yeah, and obviously, like cockiness
gets the best of him. It becomes his eventual demise in a way,
like this is before he turns into the Earth. But he thinks he could
like sustain all this power that he absorbs, and sure enough he can't.
But we'll get to that. I don't know if you want to start at
the beginning and just do like chronological, we can totally. We can totally
start at the beginning. Yeah. For me, the beginning was right after
a Tournament of Power. Yeah, take us, take us through it.
Yeah. So they do that little recap of the Tournament of Power in the
forty second chapter, But then we get right to the kidnapping of Boo.
We get these aliens from outside the planet. I didn't think they were the
Glastic Police at first. I thought it was going to be I thought it
was going to be something like they're coming to Earth. They kidnaped Boo's body
and they're trying to like manipulate it in such a way, kind of like
what's happening at the very end where they take something and they want to possibly
manipulate it, but turns out they were stealing his body because of that history
he had. And the first couple of chapters go through all that history where
we get the flash weight of the ten million years ago of the Lord of
Lords and that whole history of the split that when there was that split with
the Lord of Lords, you got the Boo we see like the overweight Boo,
and then you get the evil Boo who has that god power. And
then it's kind of cool it ties in the whole Ub story and why Bob
this sole significant as he goes godlike powers. That's one of the strengths of
Dragon Ball super Like. They've taken stuff from Dragon Ball Z that was very
almost underwhelming, like sometimes the Ub stuff, and they made it. They
kind of made it more interesting in my opinion, because we got this kid
at the end of Draging Ball Z and it wasn't like super super interesting in
my opinion, like Ub as a character. But now that we're building more
around him and starting to learn more about him, I'm getting more interested in
U because now all of a sudden, he has the God key. All
of a sudden, that makes so much more sense. Why Goku wanted to
train him, right, So there's all this added weight to his character.
And so now Dragon Ball Super is actually making Dragon Ball Z ending better,
which I like. Right, Yeah, it's almost like they're cleaning up some
of the loose ends or like you mentioned, underwhelming parts of Z and giving
them that good kind of narrative background. So I did appreciate that it made
things. It just made a little bit more significant. So that was interesting
getting that whole back history of them. And then we end up getting introduced
more to Morrow in his situation and how it kind of took me back again,
like all these little kind of references to Z and Dragon Ball of when
I think it was Roshi's Master ended up containing was it like Girly Junior or
something? Someone contained girl Junior. I get that whole idea. How moral
was someone who like was really tough to be defeated, so we had to
be contained. And then he goes into the prison and then finally escapes,
so you get that different threat. Yeah, he wasn't yeah, like he
wasn't defeated necessarily, he was more or less captured. So he's this you
know villain that again he doesn't have like this um losses in his track record,
it's more of a capture than a defeat. So we get that backstory,
and then we find out obviously he's loose and he's trying to during that
first part obtain like full power, that power that he had before. And
something interesting. He's able to actually locate the dragon balls, which I don't
think we've seen that in any sort of villain so far. Yeah, it's
interesting. He could like sense them, right, and you could sense other
what is it others can't sense him or he could sense other people, like
some new sensing ability he has. I want to say, I forget the
exact ability, but anyways, Yeah, he's you know, it's an interesting
character in the sense of he has these new powers that some of these other
characters don't have. So yeah, I mean he's this ruthless guy. I
mean esthetically, before the transformation, I thought it was pretty underwhelming. I
thought like, well, I don't know, because I feel like this this
transformation is more dragon ball Z like the second one. But it was unique.
I liked how unique the first version was. Really Yeah, I just
saw it as kind of underwhelming. It was like this kind of creature that
I don't know I just I didn't find it was that cool aesthetically, but
I think the trans formation brought it out. Yeah, so that's yeah.
You like it when they go back to like, you know, basics with
the Dragon. Yeah, no, And I think you'll notice that the Moral
arc has a lot of the stuff we love from other arcs, and they
kind of like just put a bunch of them together, Like you said,
the absorption stuff. Um, you have the amicians come back like and play
a role, right, the namic Vegeta gets to a tone for his past
sins against a Mechians. This time we didn't have Piccolo save Gohan, but
we had Gohan save Piccolo which was coming too the rescue which is always fun.
And yeah, we had we had that again moment which I want to
hear how how you're thinking about it where Goku at the end, which we
could wait to talk about it, but just initially, Um, how he
gives him a sense of beat and helps heal him up after he's like,
oh yes, I'll change right. So that was huge nod back to Freezer,
Yeah, and was I couldn't stand that, Like I've talked about how
at times in Super Goku's got on my nerves on many occasions, and that
right there, I think, like you're someone who you're supposed to like learn
lessons as you fight, and it seems like hit that naivete just remains with
him the whole time. The way it is interesting one part though, it
looks like he is going to finish him off because he says, like,
oh, are you going to like he almost seems like he's actually going to
kill him, like finish him. He said he will, he just reverses
the decision. He wants to talk. Well, at one point after he
says he's going to kill him, he just wants to talk for a bit,
and that's when he absorbs the Earth, right, and then the he
becomes one with the Earth. Yea. But yeah, Goku, like there
is progression and dragon Ball obviously with strength levels and we see that with obviously
Goku is pretty much always getting stronger so as a Jeta and that's cool.
But yeah, with kind of lessons like don't show too much mercy to the
bad guy, Goku, we just have to accept will not learn those lessons
because he's had plenty of opportunities by now to learn to not like give a
sense of being to the guy, and they do kind of explain it where
he, in his opinion, if anything bad happens, he'll just get stronger
and beat the guy. So if he comes back, he'll just gets wrong
and beat him. So he's definitely not a hero for justice. He's just
like, bro, I find it exciting to let bad guys go and then
I can find him again. It's just it gets too much, like I
talked to you again, like this week. This was not obviously during the
episode, but at some point this week we were talking about that. And
there's so many things I like about Goku, Like I like his positive mentality.
What it seems like it's things are just going to go to hell.
He's always not very positive spin yeah. But then but then there's other times
I think, come on, like you have to use your common sense here.
And maybe there are two sides of the same Maybe there're two sides of
the same coin where it's like we respect the fact that he almost never seems
to freak out. It's almost always like, oh, don't worry, we'll
figure it out, even though no one knows how they'll figure it out.
But at the same time, maybe that is also why he's careless, and
he actually lets himself get into situations where he shows mercy and then he ends
up actually kind of making the situation much worse. It always works out well
in his defense, well I mean, but but it definitely seems like he's
playing with fire when he doesn't need to be a lot of the time.
Yeah, I want to put Goku aside for a minute and talk about how
something else I liked about this arc was how certain Dragon Ball Z, like
those traditional Z fighters way back from Dragon Ball Z, they had some moments
to shine and Bro, we actually got jumpt back bro, and yet they
almost make a joke out of him when they use him. But he did
actually beat some guys, but it was sad because when Goku came to rescue
them kind of after the training, um, they kind of said, yo,
they were weak enough for even us to beat. So it's like so
much disrespect for himself there. He's like, yeah, that guy was strong,
but these other guys, yeah, they were waking up for us to
beat. There's another moment too, I don't I literally left a lot reading
this. This is when um the Jocko came and he's telling them like they
got to recruit some people, and they're like thinking, okay, like Tiene
will get him, like and then they're like Ten doesn't have a cell phone,
which I respect so much because he's this kind of like you know,
Zen type guy who said minimalists with that kind of yeah. But then they're
like recruiting people and then they're like, okay, we got everyone we need.
And then the panel before the end up like switching to another scene,
Krellan's like, well what about Yampcha, and like no one turns and looks
at him, almost like he's just a forgotten thought. But then someone would
have had to grab his attention to tell him, like we need you.
But I just thought, like, just another shot at Yampcha. How he
wasn't even considered, like and they considered all these like Krill and they were
thinking of all these other people, and then Yampcha was just this afterthought.
Eventually was able to shine for a bit there, which was pretty cool.
It was interesting how he said though he is in the top three of earth
Links, So that's that's a fun fact, right, So I'm guessing,
you know, not counting saying not counting the Mechi and stuff like that.
So yeah, I guess him Krell and t A. Oh okay. See,
you know that's interesting because I when he said that at this point,
whoever's living on Earth, I just have kind of categorized him as earth Links.
I never actually thought it in the way of like original earth Links.
So if that's the case, Yeah, that is thing to consider, is
he Yeah, I think I mean people in the check it. Correct me
if I'm wrong, But I'm pretty sure if you just count pure human beings,
Yeamtra may well be in the top three with Krillin and ten. I'm
trying to think of anyone. Yeah, so that's yeah, that's that's a
good that's a good point. So Roshi might be somewhere there, but Roshi
in historically he lagged behind. But they definitely did give him a power boost
and dragon Ball Super. Yeah, no, it was. It was cool
to see those characters. As I've been talking about, it'd be great to
see ya just you know, get a little small moment to shine and he
does there. So that's pretty cool and that's kind of the thing. So
let's get back to the actual initial planet. How did you feel about them
getting defeated? Right, Goku and Vegeta initially got wrecked and then they had
to go on and do their training. So did you like that twist?
Yeah, I mean they got wrecked from obviously it's one of those things and
we've seen this before in Dragon Ball Z where your power actually becomes the thing
that you know, defeats you are ends up becoming an obstacle because he's able
to absorb their power. They can't even turn super Satan at any point.
He can't even transport, like do instant transmissions. So that was interesting because
again it builds on this whole character of moral how it seems like strength now
becomes a disadvantage because he's able to absorb you. So that was that was
an interesting thing right there, and it's like a humbling experience for them,
and then it even pushes Vegeta to understand how like it's not all about pure
strength, but he goes to that planet in order to like what would you
call it, kind of align his spiritual side with his physical side. Yeah,
yeah, which was that was an interesting decision. Like there's a lot
of character growth for Vegeta there because I mentioned he wanted to protect the Amechians
and do what's right. Then Amekians because he felt bad for what he did
in the past. And then Amekians said, like, he's like, do
you guys hate me? Something along those lines, and the elder said,
we don't hold those judgments, right, we don't worry about the past,
we don't hold on to grudges. So that probably touched him too after everything
he did, and yeah, he just saw it as a way to atone
for his sins of the past, and he really took that seriously. And
yeah, he was even open minded enough to try something completely out of his
comfort zone in order to in order to actually make that happen. And yet
I like that whole thing. How he went to yard Draft and then that's
when Goku learned to telpportation technique, but Vegeta took it further. And then
we also saw more about that planet, which we didn't really in the anime,
so that was fun too. Yeah, there's so much growth with him
being to do that training, because you see, all the training he's done
is just him putting his body, like pushing his body to the limit,
and that training is so different from that. And even later on, like
he's not really gloating about like shining there when he ends up fighting Marrow for
the second time, the others are like, oh wow, it seems like
he's surpassed Goku, but he never really flaunts that, and he usually does
number one and number two later on when they end up giving Goku his energy.
Remember that one time It brought me back to I want to say it
was either the Cell or Boo saga where everyone ended up giving their energy to
I believe Goku, and Virginia was so hesitant, Like this time, he's
just like, there's no questioning it. He knows what to do. So
again, he doesn't care about being that person who is the person who shines
at the end to defeat him, Like he knows he has to do what's
right and he's willing to take a backseat. And I very much appreciate that
in term of his growth, because yeah, this arc he really like.
I really liked Vegeta here. I like the character he's becoming man And honestly,
I don't think it's a big spoiler, but everyone that's caught up in
the comments, yeah, so pretty much this will continue this like cool Vegeta
focus and yeah, I can't can't wait to get your response on the next
chapters after this as well. But yeah, Vegeta, they've done. I
think that's one of my favorite things about Drying Ball Super how they're treating Vegeta,
because, like I've said this before and Drying Ball Z, Vegeta seems
to always take this back seat, and right now, I feel like,
you know, he's kind of right now, he's trying to keep up with
Goku, right with Master Dultra instinct, like you can't deny right now in
the manga, Goku is ahead to what we saw right now, right in
this arc. But Vegeta got his own unique power which was spear efficient,
which could separate fusions, could help against Morrow, and it was key to
Goku being able to defeat Moro to destroy the Crystal. So he played his
role. And yeah, he's just maintaining strength. He's always training with Goku,
and um, yeah, I can't wait to see how that progresses and
how serious the rivalry gets. Yeah, no, I'm loving it. I'm
excited to see what happens in the next start. Like you said, it
seems like this Vegeta focus is going to continue and possibly in an even better
way. So I'm excited to see that. Yeah, yeah, because in
drag Ball drag Ball Z did seemed like Goku and Gohan were like the alternating
guys, right, while here it's more so Goku and Vegeta who are the
alternation heroes. And that's another thing too, Like Gohan, he's taken such
a backseat in super and it was nice even within this art seeing him step
up and nothing significant but I think never again, but he was willing to
do like put what he was doing behind and step up here, and that
was nice to see. I always like seeing Gohan moments because obviously we find
out fighting is not his number one priority like all these other people. It's
far down on the maybe not far down, but it's definitely not a top
three thing on the list anymore. That's so interesting because we're told that,
you know, half sayans have greater potential than full sayings, we were told
on the path, but yet it'll just never be maximized potential because there isn't
that dry that these other sayings have, right, Yeah, and it's interesting
too, like linking this to now Trunks and Goten. I know they were
told to look after seventeens whole like reserve area there, but like why weren't
they chosen. They're not really getting that same no focus, Yeah, they're
not getting that same focus, And honestly, I'm okay with it. I
guess if they were to get more of a focus, it could take away
from like Vegeta and Goku kind of training dynamic. And they probably had to
push away more characters because they added Berris and Weis, so they kind of
they take up a lot of time, and so how could Go ten and
Trunks keep up when Vegeta and Goku are training with a god of destruction and
an angel? Right? So I get it. And at first I kind
of was like, oh, I'm missing the you know, Go Tanks days,
I'm missing when they were actually a force to be reckoned with. But
now I get it. I get it, And the only one that arguably
I miss is Gohan. But Vegeta is super cool. So if Vegeta maintains
like kind of his competition, his rivalry with Goku, I'll be satisfied.
Yeah yeah, I mean, and we'll see what happens to them as characters
as we go on. But someone we didn't speak about yet, Um his
name is Mirriss, right, ye, Like I assumed it's Mariss because like,
you know, the e makes an a sound. Yeah, but I've
heard a lot of YouTubers just say mirrors, mirrors, how many different like
playout, Like we got Moral, we got Beriss, we got Mirrors,
we got so many of these similar names in Super But yeah, I mean
him as a character, he really surprised me because when I saw him at
first, I completely categorized him in the same class as like, yeah,
who's just like he's got the stupid gun of on him and he's capturing people
in this like Goo and you think, oh, what a lame character,
and even the haircut, like doesn't Goku at one point or someone saying,
isn't he so cute the way his bangs are like a little little short No,
I mean me too, man, one hundred percent. I was like,
you know, this was bridge kind of the action parts, and when
we were introduced to him, I was like, all right, like,
you know, I don't care about this guy. I also assumed it was
Jocko. But that's a good, um, good reality check for us to
not judge people by their appearances, because Goku didn't have that, you know,
didn't have that bias. Goku immediately noticed like, oh, there's something
different about you, a like you're super fast, you're um. So yeah,
Goku immediately knows he was special, and yeah, how did you feel
about that whole progression towards the reveal of an angel? When did you figure
out he wasn't angel? When did I figure out? Well, there was
that moment when we was speaking too and I forget exactly who he was speaking
to his father, Yeah, yeah, whoever that was. But yeah,
when they start talking about it's interesting because at first I misread it and I
thought he was talking about moral like, oh, he's he's letting loose,
like he's doing things. And I thought at first I thought it was Marl
because again the names are so similar to See the M and you know you've
been reading, like this is your third maybe straight chapter, and I just
get a little bit tired looking at the screen because I'm ruining it off a
screen, and then like I'm like this, this is kind of weird,
Like why wouldn't they just step him before? And then I go back up
and I'm like mirrors, I'm like what the hell? Why is like what's
specificated about him? But obviously I was suspicious when we got that whole training
with Goku because he seemed to have really wanted to hide so that no one
else can figure out that they were training and he was flexing, even though
like he doesn't full out flex with Goku, but like he's definitely showing some
of his powers. So that was really suspicious, Like why don't you just
do it? I know he talked about if we could blow stuff up,
but still, why don't you do it with other people around? Why do
you have to hide in this kind of hyperbolic time chamber. So that was
a little suspicious there, and then obviously that kind of gave it away that
he was some sort of like deity level character. And then sure enough we
get that reveal how he he's actually what Ouie's brother, I think he says
at the end. Yeah, so I think that there's that head which the
name is escaping me right now what his name is. But there's that guy
who's like their father, and then the rest of them are all like brothers
and sisters. And you have that with with um Vados, right, the
one Shampa's angel is sister and brother is the sister of Weise, Right,
are reality as angels? So yeah, that's that's kind of the setup they
have going on there, And it was interesting because he got serious and that's
why he eventually got erased. And I think that was so cool that we
saw an angel who are obviously there might be some differences between their power levels
individually, but we know angels are opaf like they're they're overpowered, and to
see one goes serious, even for a bit before he disappeared, that was
very high. Yeah, No, that was cool, and just learning a
bit of his backstory as well, like he I believe they said he came
to this universe to get like a broader perspective on things, and he talked
about how his role and the role of all these deities are just to like
let things happen, like not to really interfere much with different things. But
then he ended up getting that thirst for justice and that's what drew him in.
So it's interesting. I mean it gets into like philosophical kind of thoughts
as well, like free will, the idea of like our things predetermined our
things, you know, suffering that that whole idea of like the whole philosophical
debate about suffering and the gods. So yeah, it was pretty cool to
see him decide to basically risk being eliminated in order to you know, work
towards justice. So that was it was interesting to get that little glimpse of
his power. Yeah, and I really like that that there's only one way
for them to kind of be destroyed or die, and that was to actually
try and participate in the world and like have that influence on it rather than
just being observers. And he chose Yeah, right, I'm going to pick
the what I think is right, and I'm willing to die for it.
And I think that's why it was such a great character. Also, thank
you to Steelers for pointing out that Grand Priest is what they call what they
call the Father. Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. In the whole thing
about Super, which is interesting compared to say Z and Dragon Ball is we
always get the situations in the again Z and Dragon Ball where it's like there's
this enemy he's overpowered or she's overpowered. Trying to think if there was any
females I guess eighteen overpowered compared to previous opponents, and then Goku and whoever
catching up to them. Within Super, there's this idea of here these like
external kind of deities because obviously the whole universe like zooms out and we learn
that there are multi universes. We learned that they are like again like deity
powers out there. We know that there are things that are far more superior
now compared to people like Goku, and we just like accept it, like,
you know, here are people who on a power level are just far
superior, but they can't necessarily use their power. They don't really want to,
and like that's fine. So unlike the other ones where it was all
about, oh yeah, like can Goku become the most powerful person, we
kind of accepted as a fan that hey, he's not the most powerful one,
and that's trying to become kind of like the best version of himself.
And he gets competitive in certain areas, you know, like I want to
be the strongest mortal, for example, and he wants to even obviously fight
against really strong gods and angels. But he doesn't get frustrated that he's not
automatically on Lisa's level, and there's that respect for him because yeah, he's
just trying to get stronger and stronger, fight stronger and stronger opponents. But
he doesn't need to be the be all and end all strongest, and his
focus is on martial arts, while someone like Zeno their focus would be on
just you know, it's not even power at that point, you could just
erase you without you even flexing. Yeah. Yeah, so that's kind of
a shift I notice in Super, which is kind of interesting. I do
want to say one thing about Vegeta which I really liked, going back to
him in his fight with Moral there at the end. Something that I love
is just how he reminds Moral that like, you can absorb this energy,
but you didn't put in the work to be able to actually sustain it.
And I love that idea, Like, again, there's great lessons within dragon
Ball dragon Ball Super and the idea that you gotta like, you gotta put
in that work in order to get to where you want to be brought that
up. Yeah, yeah, Vegeta does that obviously. We see that throughout,
Like he's willing to just absolutely push his limits to get to where he
wants to be, and here's a guy who just tried to. It reminds
me of, like, in a weird way, people who take steroids who
are like, I want to get to this place just as fast as I
fair enough, you don't put the work, and then all of a sudden
they get to that spot and they're not necessarily like strong, they just look
huge and there's a lot of their power. Yeah, what happens when you
stopped taking steroids? No? No, no, yeah for sure, And
I think that's that's one hundred percent true. Goku brings it up to He's
like, you've never trained, right, and he's like, no, of
course, not training is yeah, he said something along the lines of training
is something for the week, right, which is so funny, what a
contradictus. But yeah, No, dragon Ball loves playing with that with like
super strong guys feeling they're too good to train, and then Goku and Vegeta
train and being them through hard work. Like some of my most kind of
inspirational training visuals are just Vegeta in the you know, red gravity machine that
Boma builds for him, just training like doing pushhops, doing kicks, like
sweating and like ultra gravity. Those scenes, those little moments are what I
think of when I think of hard work. Bro, Like dragon Ball,
is that a profound effect on me in that sense? And yeah, these
guys are always training and we see the benefits of that and not just having
stuff handed to Yeah, no, I love it. I find it motivational
and like applicable to things I'm training for, like we talk about we like
exercise and running, and it definitely like it motivates me seeing these characters push
their limits and sometimes when they take like their foot off the gas a bit,
like understanding they got to put even more working and you could get back
to the level you want to get to. I really like those lessons within
the whole Dragon Ball series. And then obviously you get characters who don't do
it, like even Freezer, and you know they can't at the end of
the day. They just there's a limit to that. You can only get
so far where you don't put the work in and you're just kind of short
cut everything. So obviously that happens with Morrow when he ends up his body
can't hold the power, the god power, and he ends up exploding kind
of deal. But then obviously gets a bit more complicated, but yeah,
that becomes one of his downfalls. But yeah, it's like that's that's one
of the things I don't like about those copy abilities. And it's not just
him. There's a bunch of copy characters in different shown in and it's like,
yeah, I don't like it when people get just copy moves and use
them. But here they here, they at least made it the limit being
he couldn't contain Mirrorst's power, right, But yeah, I mean it's even
irritating to me that he could just use Vegeta's big Bang, no problem.
He could use Piccolo's special beam cannon, like he could do all of this
ship and those guys have to train so much to learn it, and he's
just like doing it just as strong. And it's like, oh, that
sometimes rubs me the wrong way. No, I know what you mean.
Like you you've seen these characters just develop and learn these techniques, and here's
a guy who's just in one episode steals them all like it's nothing. Like
it's frustrating sometimes as a reader and a watcher of dragon Ball, But hey,
I guess the characters there was a limit. Yeah, at least there
was. They had a limit, and he couldn't just like copy beers or
or weis and then just you know, crush everybody. And even when he
copied mers, like when him and Goku were fighting, there was a situation
where he said, we're equally powerful now and only I have magic, and
that was before his body started to reject the power. But that's interestin because
it's it begs the question could he not reach Mirror's power or is Goku just
that strong now in his mastered ultra instinct form. Another interesting thing was the
whole fact about this whole arc was that instead of revolving around I need a
new transformation, it was about figuring out how to control the transformation he got
access to during the Tournament of Power. So that was a unique way to
kind of go about getting a new power and reaching a higher level rather than
just you know, reaching it for the first time. It was about learning
how to control it and master it. Yeah, No, that was that
was cool because it gets a little like boring when not bored but predictable when
it's the same thing all the time, and whenever there's a new arc,
it's like a new transformation. I gotta admit, though, I maybe like
this is not a popular opinion, and I think most people like think transformations
go overboard, But there's nothing that hips me up like drag ball Z transformations.
No, they're good, they're iconic for it, but they have.
They have to be careful because they don't want to like every new chapter to
be a new transformation because it'll lose some of the magic. But when we
do wait for that new form and it comes, holy shit, is that
exciting? Yeah? And imagine being able to market all this Like God,
it's so easy to be able to put out different like um like pop culture
things like toys, like different posters of the various transformers. You can be
like, oh, I love you know the second Transformation of the Third Transformation,
and you could market the all It's like Pokemon, right, Like,
so you're gonna have you're a huge drag ball Z fan, right, So
not only are you getting all of the new figures for the villains. For
example, if you're just like super into it, you also need to get
Okay, here's my Goku base Form doll or figure, here's my Goku Super
Sian one. Here's my Goku God and here's my Goku All Tray and stink.
Here's Go Mastered all train sting. So you keep needing to get new
figures if you're like a hardcore collector and it's fun, it's it's an interesting
thing. Cookie Wok, you thank you for gifting us up appreciate and I
believe as well because I remember I actually have one. I believe it's one,
maybe two VHS tapes I was given like his birthday presents when I was
young of Dragon ball Z And on the side there's like a little portion of
a picture somewhere. It's it's actually if you put all the VHS is apparently
what I found out. I found this out like this past year. But
if you put all of the VHS pictures next to each other when they used
to come out on VHS, it would actually show like an entire scene of
like a character in different characters. So yeah, like it's that whole idea
of just trying to mark the shit out of that, like I need all
the vhses, yeah, to complete this picture. What sucked was like now
we have like you know, Netflix, and you can find everything, but
before you just have to buy like this clunky cassette for three episodes or something
like that. Yeah that is very true, Oh my god. But yeah,
so what else is there to talk about in this arc? Obviously Jeita
did get to shine right when he used for spear efficient, and I like
the idea that Morrow took it from him, right, he absorbed Vegeta's power,
and then he had access to for spear efficient and all of a sudden,
they couldn't even if they wanted to fuse because that power can just separate
fusions. So they kind of had a work around of, oh, you
won't be able to use the fusion. So I thought that was interesting too.
Yeah, so I mean, yeah, the fight was interesting. The
whole idea of UM taking over like the Earth there at the end was a
good cliffhanger because they were kind of like what do we do to like if
we want to destroy this guy at the same time we're destroying the earth.
Yeah, so yeah, it puts him in a very like uncomfortable position about
like what do you what do you do next? So that was a cool
That was a really cool near the end there a cool cliffhanger. Yeah,
I remember because I was reading these chapters monthly rather than all I want was
right, so I couldn't just read on and I was like fuck, because
obviously I think if you're read it straightforward, I feel like you'll be less
mad at Goku, but think about how to collect the fan base was like
upset when Goku just lets him heal. He's like, oh, I won't
finish him right now, we'll talk a bit, and then the dude absorbs
into the world and we s tells them all right now moral will share the
fate of the Earth. So you got to destroy the earth, and like,
imagine you couldn't just read ahead. You're like, Goku, what have
you fucking done? And then if you could just read straight ahead, you
could be like, okay, so all you gotta do is destroy the crystal
and we'll figure it out. But yeah, just Goku just seems like such
an idiot with the one month Wait. The whole time, you're like why
why And that is funny. They totally hype that up just for him to
be like, yeah, you just gotta break the crystal, and it's like
it's like oh wow, but obviously they're not going to reveal that. Then
yeah, we could have said that immediately, right, But yeah, you
gotta keep the cliffhangers going, especially because it's a month apart, right,
so some manga or a week apart, so you don't need necessarily as big
of a cliffhanger. But with Dragon Ball Super and like the monthly, the
monthly nature of it, you really need like to try to make it as
good as a cliffhanger as possible, or else people will just forget about it
because like it's been a whole month, right, yeah, what ended up?
I'm trying to think now what ended up happening? Morow is technically like
is he in prison? I forget or he completely destroyed? Oh Moral?
Yeah, Oh that's a good question. I have to think, Well,
only because this is something I hope they don't do in the next arc or
like an arc down the road, because they did the exact same thing with
Freezer. I hope they don't, like, say, he is alive or
I mean, here's the thing. In past like episodes, we've seen characters
who seem like they've been destroyed but somehow right there back because obviously at the
end we get OG seven three, who is he gets recouped by Granola.
But I hope there doesn't become a situation where Moral ends up saying oh,
yeah, like I'm gonna start training now and then become more powerful because I'm
gonna be like, man, you did that with Freezer, Like let's not
repeat that exact same thing. Yeah. Yeah, from the look of it,
like Moral did die. Obviously, guys, anybody who knows something,
I don't let me know the chat. But from the looks of it,
he looks like he did die. It's just we saw in the next chapter
that seven three part of him from part of him, and he was getting
um he ended up getting like recouped, and he was in that kind of
chamber that you see the other characters are when they are recovering and then we
get introduced to Granola there. So yeah, so he's kind of the looks
like he's going to get recouped some way and get some sort of power boost.
But I just hope they don't do that with Moral because we just saw
that with Freezing. We don't need that same kind of approaching here. No,
And I think Freezer is a good step up from Agita, where Magita
is pretty much a good guy now, Like he can still talk smack and
he has that edginess to him, but he's still a good guy. Freezer
like he's still evil, right, He's still very much an evil dude,
even though he can sometimes be friendly with our guys if it serves his purpose.
Right. We try to say Machiavellian at least one time in the every
podcast, and Freeze is definitely machiavellian. But with Moral, you definitely definitely
don't need another Freeze though. Yeah, I agree with that, and I
mean he's not as the thing is. I mean I understand, and like,
yeah, that's what I was gonna say. Yeah, you want to
bring him back, and you want to make him relevant based on saying he
didn't train before, but you bring Moral back, and it's like, bro,
I wasn't even that attached to him to begin with. I do really
like the fact that, um, what they're doing post anime, and I
mean they were doing it obviously with the movie and stuff too, but they're
relating back to a lot of the history of dragon Ball. So yeah,
like going back to Yard Draft, the Yard Draft planet, and then you
also have be things being tied into ten million years ago and how Boo maintain
gained that look right because he absorbed the Lord of Lords and all of this
stuff. That's that's happened. Now we're gonna go again not a huge spoiler,
but we're gonna more go more into history with this approaching arc um.
So I just really like the fact that you know this historical stuff is playing
a factor, and they're not just you know, new stuff popping up,
but they're actually getting sort of new stuff by drawing on the history and stuff
that's happened before. Yeah. No, I like that. I like how
they end up going back there and building new bridges between the narratives. Like
that's something I have liked about super So I'm glad that they're going to be
doing that in the next arc. But yeah, I mean, overall,
I thought this arc was it was fun. I thought there were some great
qualities about it that I mentioned about Vegeta's growth, about transformations even more as
a character. It was like there was this one moment speaking of like flashing
back, where he ended up having this giant like he created this giant ball
and it looked like it was like reminiscent of when Freeze I used to like
put one finger in the air and have that giant energy ball, and it
looked like because traditionally youth Freezer, he has the energy ball and then he
directs it to the ground and it's just like huge energy ball just consuming the
planet. But he ends up having this ball like one hand in the air
and then he just eats it. It's like a very different one. Yeah.
I also I also didn't know where it was going, but yeah,
and it again it was a team effort here with the victory, like Goku
did get strong, but Vegeta helped with his ability to unabsorbed or kind of
speir efficient his way out of it so that the metal the orb on his
forehead wasn't covered so Goku could actually destroy it. And then there was the
obviously help from Ube that the Lord of Lords kind of took over a boo
and helped him send it Like that was massive, God Key, Like that
was insane. It gave it gave Goku like this huge avatar of Key that
he was like riding in. And that show again in the end of Dragon
Ball Z why he would pick this specific kid to train and to don't kind
of spend most of his time with this kid. It's like, Yo,
this kid has insane potential and he could end up being a defender of the
Earth and the future plus a great sparring partner for Goku. Yeah. I
wonder what Torre I'm actually thought at the time though, when he actually wrote
an Ube for the first time, Like, was he thinking of some of
this stuff, the god type power, Like was he just like I'm just
gonna leave it, Like I don't even know like what I'm gonna do with
this character why he's so special because it's not really revealed. Yeah, that's
the thing. Like usually I think it's going back to it and adding to
it. Because as I said, Goku wasn't originally supposed to be an alien,
let alone a saying, and then he decided to make him one.
So it's kind of that situation. I'm sure he didn't know what he'd want
to do later on if there would ever be another continuation Dragon Ball Z.
Right, but now that they can go back, let's make everything make more
sense. And yeah, I'm liking it a lot. And how he kind
of got absorbed all the power from everyone plus the god key, and that
helped him win classics kind of spear bomb vibes there, you know, so
that's always nice. Something else as well, like vibes as well as um
the orbs not the orbs, like that whole crystal on his hand. It
took me back to the whole Remember the androids who came in Z who had
those they had their like machines on their hands and they would grab people and
they wouldn't be able to copy them, but they'd stuck their energy like they
did with Yamche So that that broughably back to that. That was another another
throwback. More was like this combination of like all of these different opponents.
Right, he has magic which is kind of Mogen Boo related, and he
had all these different looks, freezer vibes to the battle itself, and they
had all these different locations in this fight. Right, Yeah, namic yet
earth you add all these different ones. So that was fun too. Arguably
it's interesting. One of the most underrated moves he used he uses, which
is one of the most important because his hands are so important, is the
Piccolo regeneration. Like how many times has he end up getting like his arm
cut off, his hand cut off and he just regenerates it. Yeah,
like that that technique is super useful and it's super undervalued. Not undervalued,
but it's like something under the radar that Piccolo and even dended with his healing
techniques that these Namecheans have that are so unique to them. It was originally
very much nerved because whenever like Piccolo used it or something, it would take
a bunch of his stamina. Yeah, but here like moral can just do
it as much as he wants. It looks like right, so yeah,
he definitely steps it up. And what do you think about the brutality of
some of the scenes, Like I'm specifically thinking of him kind of taking his
arm straight through Goku's chest like that was a crazy moment. We rarely see
anything that brutal in Dragon Ball Z, So I was gonna say the only
other time I remember seeing something as brutal, and I don't think it was
as brutal as this. This takes me back to Dragon Ball. Remember when
Piccolo and Goku fought in that tournament and Piccolo looked like he was defeated and
he shoots that yeah yeah, wave right through Goku's chest and you see the
hole right through his chest. Like that took me back to that moment,
because yeah, really do you get those kind of grow tesque like stands through
the body like holy shit? And it was one of those things where we
have to like double check and you're like that, am I seeing this right?
Because it happens so quick, right it it re kind of regenerates right
through him such a such a brutal move and yeah, I think that's part
of the manga Charmed. They have more freedom to get more brutal than the
anime, which is subject to more rules with what they can and can show.
Yeah, because I'm trying to think, I think that's happened to Goku
maybe three times so far, like the first time with Piccolo, second time
with the again Piccolo again, I guess when it comes to him holding rabbits
and it goes right through him, and then I'm trying to think, I
think this is like the third time it gets something actually like going right through
there's something personal about it not being an energy beam and it just being like
your fucking arm just right through them as brutal and yeah, that's something I
love about this fight. Um yeah, yeah, pretty much that takes us
to the end. What do you think just initial thoughts on Granola, I
don't know. I don't know much. I think we don't get crazy amount
of like context one under I don't know. Like the O G seven three,
he was someone we didn't really talk about him too too much, but
he was someone who he kind of looked like in a weird way, Captain
Genu in my opinion, and he was just kind of I don't know.
I knew he was like a placeholder for Morrow, so I didn't absolutely love
him as a character. So I'm curious to see to do what to see,
sorry, what he does with that guy. But yeah, I don't
know if is he someone who I mean he's driving around in the spaceship.
Is he someone who is a threat more like intellectually how he could like manipulate
other people. The character has this uniqueness to him for sure, And at
first, I gotta admit I was at the beginning of this arc. I
was like, Yo, I kind of want to get back to the main
characters, you know, But I think it evolves nicely as you'll see,
and then you could tell me what you think next episode. But yeah,
I think that pretty much covers what we wanted to cover for this one.
Obviously, MirOS returns, right, so that's great. He returns as a
mortal. Did you see that twist coming? Or no? Um? I
mean I thought he would return in some way, but him being a mortal,
No, I didn't. So that's that's interesting, right because at least
there was some kind of payment. Yo, Thank you so much, Hobi
Sumer for two hundred bits. He says, the most brutal is Popo training.
No one discusses Popo training. I think that's a that's a dragon Ball
Z the abridged reference, right, Yeah, whatever happened at Popo, I
miss him. Yeah, we don't see a Popo a lot anymore. We
see ded But yeah, so that that was nice that because I mean to
an extent, I kind of feel like it would have been more powerful if
they just didn't bring MirOS back, because then Goku would like carry that weight
of his memory. And he says his will lives on through me, and
well, yeah, dragon Ball doesn't typically do that. But yeah, we
can't. We can't expect deaths to last, like you know, you never
know, and with angels specifically, we know nothing. So at least it
wasn't like, you know, he's brought back with no changes. At least
he was quote unquote punished, although I don't think he'd even consider a punishment
by coming back as a mortal. And now we have another character we could
bring back to the mix whenever we feel like, right, like Browley is
somewhere in the world, mirrorst is now in the world. So there's all
these Freezes doing his own thing, right, So there's all these characters and
potential plus maps. Yeah, exactly, got Snappa making make an appearance.
So yeah, I definitely look forward to seeing how those guys may pop up
again in the future, or even if they don't. It just it's nice
to know they're doing their own thing and living by their own ideals somewhere in
the universe. Yeah. No, it's it's a big universe now, and
as we can tell, it's actually more than one universe, so there's a
whole lot of potential out there for different stories. Yeah. Sam's telling me
that he saw the Super video I put out today. Great timing. Yeah,
so pretty much. Don't look at that video Ray stay away from from
my channel for until them two weeks because there you will see something very epic,
but we want to hold it for now. Hobe Summer, thank you
so much for another two hundred bits, says Popo. Went off and made
him some bomb masked toast in the hyperbolic time chamber and lost his way.
Yes, no, I love I love these characters, man. That's another
thing I love about Super, the fact that we got to keep seeing these
characters but Geta is only getting better in my opinion, right, Like I
prefer Dragon Ball Super Vegeta too. Well. I mean, there is obviously
the huge twist from Vegeta sacrificing himself to initially being a villain is big in
Dragon Ball Z, but I just like what they're doing with him in Dragon
Ball Super and how he's not always taking a backseat to Goku. So yeah,
I find this transformation is more authentic compared to someone like Piccolo, where
it was a bit of a I know, he was more hostile at the
beginning, but it was a bit more of a quicker one, like this
was a long time coming and now slowly but surely, Like it just seems
more real this transformation compared to other ones where it's just like, you know,
after an arc or two, all of a sudden, they're just completely
on board with everyone, like this has been a long time coming, with
him really putting others before him, and yeah, and then the trunks,
like all of that stuff is obviously a huge factor that Piccolo experiences in some
way through kind of being an adoptive father to Gohan in a sense, but
otherwise, yeah, you could really believe why Vegeta changed. Thank you so
much, soul Slayer for three hundred bits. Buark of Vegeta is the culmination
of his character, That's what Soul Slayer says. So I think they had
a hard time finding a direction for him, but I think they finally did.
Yeah, for sure, I think obviously, yeah. I don't want
to put that down at all of Dragon Ball Zibajeta. Obviously, I think
he's amazing, but I think Dragon Ball Super is doing him justice in the
continuation. I agree, cool, cool, and I think that pretty much
covers all we want to say about this moral arc. Guys, we are
covering all the remaining chapters for the episode in two weeks, which is chapters
sixty eight to seventy four. I believe they're like, Ray, there are
some insane things. I'm gonna tell you right now. I haven't been this
excited to see the next episode of dragon Ball Sup, to see the next
chapter of Dragon Ball Super. Ever, I guess, like, Bro,
this is fucking intense right now. This arc is crazy shit happening. So
I'm super excited for that for the next chapter to come out as well,
And we will also add on as a little bonus the dragon Ball Suit,
the dragon Ball Evolution movie, not because it's good, but because everyone says
it sucks and we kind of want to experience experience the suckage, you know,
Hoby Summer, thank you again for five hundred bits, says unpopular opinion.
I'm waiting for Broley to come into the meta and even see him transcend
his power even greater like kaled It by controlling his anger. Yeah, so
that's another thing to look forward to. Browley is another one of those characters.
And I gotta say, man, dragon Ball has some amazing characters,
right, Like, they just stand out so much. Yeah, I don't
think that's an unpopular opinion. That's something i'd want to see. Yeah,
no, yeah, I don't think like more broy yes please, yes,
yes please and yeah no everything everything is going good right now, and I
really like the direction dragon Ball Super is taken right now. Hopefully keeps up
and until next time, see us Bace, Cowboys Bang