1
00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:07,040
Well. Off a weekend that has
seen my goodness, Tyson fury. What

2
00:00:07,559 --> 00:00:11,839
was that an escape for him?
A split decision. We're going to talk

3
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,560
about what happened with this fight with
Francis and Nanu and what does it mean

4
00:00:15,599 --> 00:00:20,120
for the future. Off a weekend
that has seen a wild TKO win for

5
00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:26,320
Oshaki Foster to defend his title,
and it turns out he absolutely positively had

6
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,960
to have it, even though he
wouldn't have had a way of knowing that

7
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,920
when he scored two knockdowns and got
a TKO in the final round. We

8
00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,799
got lots to talk about. We
got news, we got nostalgia, we

9
00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,000
got much more. I am merely
the somewhat capable host TJ. Reeves.

10
00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:45,640
He is our insider Fight Freaks Unit
substech Bigfight Weekend dot Com. Welcome into

11
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,520
the Fight Freaking Night Recap Podcast.
Dan Rayfield, I know your crotchety as

12
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,759
we tape this because the New York
Giants have lost again on a Sunday afternoon.

13
00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,399
My Sunday was spent traveling back from
working at college football game Saturday.

14
00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:03,079
Nonetheless, we're here to talk and
much more. Are you gonna perk up

15
00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:04,400
a little bit and get over the
Giants. Here are we gonna, are

16
00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,400
we gonna? Are we gonna get
this going? And we all right,

17
00:01:07,439 --> 00:01:10,040
here we go. I'm gonna perk
up, but I'm still kind of cranky

18
00:01:10,079 --> 00:01:14,159
because they lost the Jets, which
is the crosstown rival. They had a

19
00:01:14,239 --> 00:01:17,280
chance to win with the third string
quarterback. They blew it at the end,

20
00:01:17,439 --> 00:01:19,280
let them tie the game, and
then they blew it in overtime.

21
00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:23,359
And oh, just by the way, as it related to the thing you

22
00:01:23,439 --> 00:01:26,400
just mentioned in the open about the
Oshaki Foster fight against Rocky Hernandez, he

23
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,040
may not have known the exact score
going into the final round when he scored

24
00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:34,079
the knockout. We'll get into the
details of the fight, but in Mexico

25
00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:38,640
they use with the WBC Championship fight, they use open scoring, so he

26
00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:41,920
and his team knew what the scores
were after round eight, So he knew

27
00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,319
he was behind the eight ball in
a big way. And we'll get to

28
00:01:44,359 --> 00:01:48,040
it. We get to that interesting, all right. And uh, I

29
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,439
got several comments on all of that, including the broadcast and the eleventh round

30
00:01:52,719 --> 00:01:56,079
of that fight. We've got to
talk about in the in a bigger context

31
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:57,719
coming up, all right. So
again, thank you for finding us.

32
00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,439
Make sure you rate us and review
us. The Big Fight Weekend podcast feed

33
00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:06,120
if you enjoyed the content, not
just the preview podcast going into the weekend

34
00:02:06,159 --> 00:02:08,479
usually out Friday morning, the recap
podcast like you're hearing right now, that

35
00:02:08,599 --> 00:02:14,080
is overnight Sunday into Monday. But
you also get special guests that are with

36
00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:16,400
us. You've heard recently from Oscar
day La Hooya, you've heard recently from

37
00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,479
Amanda Serrano, from Tim Zoo,
on and on down the list, just

38
00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,639
in the last two or three weeks. I'll tell people, I'll jump in

39
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:25,919
and I'll tell folks that coming up. So if you sign up and if

40
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,360
you subscribe to the pod, you'll
get the alert. We have interviews coming

41
00:02:30,439 --> 00:02:32,280
in the in the I don't know
exactly which show we'll play it on,

42
00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:36,800
but I have interviews with Shakor Stevenson, who's getting ready to fight for the

43
00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:40,400
vacant WBC lightweight title in a couple
of weeks. I have an interview with

44
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:45,360
the Mets Andred who was headlining the
pay per view on Showtime pay per view

45
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:50,080
against David Benavidez coming up on November
twenty fifth, And we're striving for other

46
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,680
interviews, so you'll have plenty to
listen to, including TJ and myself.

47
00:02:53,719 --> 00:02:57,319
And by the way, I interviewed
Jamel Herring recently too. Herring is going

48
00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,319
to come out of retirement. He's
roughly year and a half re timeronment,

49
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:07,800
former world champion, and it's a
special card involving US military and first responders,

50
00:03:07,879 --> 00:03:13,120
police, amateur fighters, and he's
in the main event as part of

51
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,360
the main event card. So we'll
talk with Jammel Hearing about that too,

52
00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,120
and that'll be on the podcast feed. But you make a great point follow

53
00:03:17,199 --> 00:03:23,400
and subscribe because these podcast interviews might
end up as their own standalone thing,

54
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,479
as the De la Hoya interview did, as the tam Zoo interview did,

55
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,319
and you need no other prompt and
you know other reminder from us on that.

56
00:03:30,599 --> 00:03:32,960
Okay, with that, let me
set the scene this way. You

57
00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,919
were much more plugged in than I
was. On Saturday afternoon and Saturday afternoon

58
00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:42,919
late and Saturday evening. I was
working the college football national broadcast of Clemson

59
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,919
and NC State. We got off
the air, we got out of the

60
00:03:46,479 --> 00:03:49,719
stadium, we started making our way
through the traffic, trying to find something

61
00:03:49,759 --> 00:03:53,800
to eat. I will say I
picked up the Fury in Ganu fight from

62
00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,400
about the third the second or the
third round on. I think the second

63
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,840
round on I had issues with the
audio and the loud place that I was,

64
00:04:00,879 --> 00:04:04,520
and I know you and I were
changing a text message after it.

65
00:04:05,039 --> 00:04:10,039
Okay, Dan, I think it's
fair to say we are both we both

66
00:04:10,039 --> 00:04:12,759
thought Fury would knock him out that
didn't. Oh yeah, like we didn't

67
00:04:12,759 --> 00:04:15,879
go exactly out on a limb there. Well, right, But I mean,

68
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:21,439
I don't think it's unfair to say
that Tyson Fury damaged his own credibility

69
00:04:21,519 --> 00:04:26,439
because he didn't look like he was
in shape, or he didn't look motivated

70
00:04:26,439 --> 00:04:28,959
to get him out of there.
I don't know what that was. But

71
00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,000
it ends up being a ten round
fight and he gets the split decision.

72
00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,560
Your thoughts, well, he never
really looked comfortable in my opinion, from

73
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,199
the beginning of the fight he got. He did look a little more comfortable

74
00:04:38,319 --> 00:04:41,040
once they got to around maybe round
five or so, where he seemed to,

75
00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:43,319
you know, work more office.
You know, you box on his

76
00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:47,399
toes and and and get his jab
ironed out. But there's no excuse making,

77
00:04:47,399 --> 00:04:50,519
there's no sugarcoating It was a terrible
performance from Tyson Fury. He knows

78
00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:54,120
it. He didn't even show up
at the postfight press conference. As my

79
00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:57,959
understanding, he did the entering interviews
both with ESPN and with TNT Sports,

80
00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:01,240
which was the broadcaster in in the
UK, but did not come to the

81
00:05:01,279 --> 00:05:03,439
post by press conference because he didn't
want to face the music. He didn't

82
00:05:03,439 --> 00:05:08,079
want to take the criticism. It's
one thing to talk to your broadcast partner

83
00:05:08,319 --> 00:05:12,279
and do a one on one for
two minutes than it is to have to

84
00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,959
face all the reporters that are going
to ask presumably tough, not tougher questions,

85
00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560
but you know there's gonna be follow
ups and it's going to be more

86
00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:20,560
than a two minute interview, and
you know, he wasn't in the mood

87
00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,639
for that, so he didn't.
He'd apparently didn't show up for that because

88
00:05:24,639 --> 00:05:29,000
he knew the criticism is coming and
it's warranted. So my perspective is that

89
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,360
Tyson Fury looked terrible. It's the
worst he's looked in many, many years.

90
00:05:31,439 --> 00:05:33,120
I don't know if it's because he
just had a bad day. He

91
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,800
woke up with, you know,
some issues that morning. He didn't feel

92
00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,720
good, maybe he didn't take it
as seriously as he proclaimed he was.

93
00:05:39,959 --> 00:05:41,959
Certainly, as you made the point, didn't look like he was in the

94
00:05:41,959 --> 00:05:45,800
greatest shape of all time going into
the fight. Maybe it was on his

95
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:47,959
mind that he had this gigantic fight
already signed with Alexander Ruzik and he was

96
00:05:47,959 --> 00:05:50,639
trying to make sure he fought,
you know, perfectly, and that maybe

97
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:55,120
led to not doing so well.
But you got to give got to give

98
00:05:55,199 --> 00:05:58,639
Nikanu credit. Man, right,
this guy showed up in shape, proper

99
00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,839
mindset, and I was go interject, maybe it was all of those things.

100
00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:08,120
Maybe has all those things you just
listed the combination and in Ghanu was

101
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:11,800
in shape. And I thought this
was interesting because Tim Bradley was pointing it

102
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,639
out, I guess, and a
couple of others who pointed it out.

103
00:06:14,959 --> 00:06:19,639
In Ghanu was much more credible with
his footwork, with his head movement than

104
00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:23,279
I think a lot of people believe. What do you make of that?

105
00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,959
I just make of that that you
have a guy in Ghanu who was determined

106
00:06:28,439 --> 00:06:33,519
and you cannot measure a man's will, heart and desire. I definitely in

107
00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,959
the pre fight, even though I
thought Fury would would beat him and do

108
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,319
so by knockout. Although I thought, as we talked about on the US

109
00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,879
show, you and I both were
in agreement that it wasn't going to be

110
00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:46,160
a stomping in one or two rounds
at because of what was at stake for

111
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,879
Niganu, his general athleticism and other
factors, that this fight was going to

112
00:06:50,959 --> 00:06:54,079
go deeper in the fight. So
we both had the over five and a

113
00:06:54,079 --> 00:06:59,319
half. I wouldn't That didn't surprise
me whatsoever. But I think that that

114
00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:03,279
Naganu is obviously better than we thought, and Fury had a terrible night.

115
00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:06,000
So I look at it like this, and these things can both be true.

116
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,639
We had a heavyweight champion of the
world that radically underperformed. We had

117
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,319
a novice boxer who was obviously a
tremendous athlete from his mixed martial arts experiences,

118
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:20,040
who dramatically overperformed, and when you
match that together, you get a

119
00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:24,160
fight that's much closer. Now,
I thought that Tyson Ferry still won the

120
00:07:24,199 --> 00:07:27,160
fight, even though it was a
shitty performance. I had him ninety five

121
00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:30,040
to ninety four. I think a
lot of people had a similar score.

122
00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:33,360
I didn't think this was controversial.
What I did think was that that,

123
00:07:34,199 --> 00:07:40,439
and I've used this line on other
fights too. When Batali Klitschkow had his

124
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,839
epic battle challenging Lennox Lewis for the
heavyweight title, which I covered in Los

125
00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,199
Angeles many years ago, my dear
friend Larry Merchant had the great line after

126
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,480
that fight, summing it up as
only Larry Merchant can do in those fifteen

127
00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:55,879
seconds at the end of the show, that Lennox Lewis won the fight and

128
00:07:55,959 --> 00:08:01,319
Tyson Battali Clichko won the event,
and the same could be for this thing.

129
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,639
Tyson Fury won the fight, granted
close, but Francis Nagan who won

130
00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,279
the event? And why TJ because
he was the guy that was doing what

131
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:13,040
nobody expected him to do. When
you do something unexpected, or you fight

132
00:08:13,079 --> 00:08:18,800
at a much better level than anybody
thinks as possible, you win the event

133
00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:20,839
and you came close to winning the
fight, you know, to a lesser

134
00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:24,759
degree, it's Sugar Ray Leonard against
Marvin Hagler. Everyone expected Marvin Hagler to

135
00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,319
knock Ray Leonard out in three or
four rounds and just blow through him.

136
00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:31,240
And when the guy is still standing
there after, you know, six seven,

137
00:08:31,279 --> 00:08:35,159
eight, nine, ten year watching
him you're giving him all the credit.

138
00:08:35,639 --> 00:08:37,879
In that case, he got to
credit from the judges properly in my

139
00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,240
opinion, but he still does something
that no one anticipated. And Francis nc

140
00:08:41,240 --> 00:08:43,600
Gann, who's got to get the
credit for that? And Fury, you

141
00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,960
know, he should take the criticism
for not because he didn't win, but

142
00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,360
because he looked like crap doing it
against the guy that's never been a professional

143
00:08:50,399 --> 00:08:54,279
boxer, against the guy that people
are telling me that they've been saying this

144
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:56,759
for a long time, which I
never bought this and drank that kool aid,

145
00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,200
is that he's one of the all
time great heavyweights. I never ought

146
00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:03,679
that, because you can't be an
all time great heavyweight if you're only victories

147
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:09,360
that really count in terms of all
time greatness are a legitimate decision against the

148
00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:15,399
Vladimir Klitschko, who was older at
that time, in a horrible, horrible

149
00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,639
fight, by the way, that
was a big win for him, of

150
00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:22,159
course, and then you're two zero
to one against Deontay Wilder in great a

151
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:26,559
great rivalry, tremendous battles. What
else has he done? You know,

152
00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,919
there's other guys like people want to
criticize Plitchkock because I just mentioned him.

153
00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:33,720
Okay, fine, but he may
have had like the all time rival.

154
00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:39,480
But the guy reigned for ten years
and fought everybody and never lost rounds in

155
00:09:39,519 --> 00:09:41,840
the town in that second level reign, and then he was active regular.

156
00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:46,879
Here you have a Fury who doesn't
fight top opponents on a regular basis,

157
00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,360
and when he does fight, it's
sporadic. He doesn't fight two three times

158
00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:54,519
a year. He's coming off an
eleven month layoff doing a fight that people

159
00:09:54,519 --> 00:09:58,919
received as like a side show cashing
in. There's plenty of top contenders that

160
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,519
he's never faced as a agreed as
a champion. So, you know,

161
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:09,879
Tyson Fury is taking a lot of
criticism. It is deserved. Unfortunately,

162
00:10:09,159 --> 00:10:13,159
a lot of people look at this
and it's a Fury is sort of the

163
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,279
straw man. So people insult the
sport of boxing, say there was a

164
00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:18,919
terrible night for boxing because you'll let
the the MMA guy come in and,

165
00:10:20,759 --> 00:10:22,320
you know, basically almost beat your
heavyweight champ. You know, in a

166
00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:24,080
fight that was a set. You
know, even if you don't think he

167
00:10:24,159 --> 00:10:26,759
won, he basically went straight up
with the heavyweight champ of the world,

168
00:10:26,759 --> 00:10:31,080
which is you know, if you're
a boxing supporter, seems unfathomable that the

169
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:35,519
MMA guy could do that. You
know, people use it to continue the

170
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,600
ridiculous mma versus the role I got
you, I will come back to you.

171
00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,639
I just don't think he obviously trained
seriously enough, or took it seriously

172
00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,519
enough, or even took it seriously
enough in the ring. Now to that

173
00:10:46,639 --> 00:10:50,360
point when he got knocked down,
and it was a legitimate knock down ahead,

174
00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,279
how much do you think that altered
things for the remainder of the fight

175
00:10:56,360 --> 00:11:00,440
that now he's concerned in his vernacular, I could get kinned, that he

176
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,159
could get chinned later in the fight. Well, I thought it was actually

177
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,480
worse for for the Ganu because I
think he like, oh, I can

178
00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:09,600
get him again. And so the
game plan that he employed, which seemed

179
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,480
to be working where he was,
you know, not he was with a

180
00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:18,720
high guard, you know, very
uh going in on when he was going

181
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,519
on the offense, he was doing
it very measured but effective. Uh.

182
00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,840
And then once he had the knockdown, it seemed like he got a little

183
00:11:24,840 --> 00:11:26,519
more wild because he's looking for the
big shots. So maybe it took him

184
00:11:26,519 --> 00:11:28,200
out of that a little bit.
It might have been better for a guy

185
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:31,960
who not to get not to get
the knockdown, although obviously he wins the

186
00:11:31,039 --> 00:11:33,440
round and it creates a lot of
excitement. It was the moment of the

187
00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,159
fight. That's why people will remember
this fight, because you know, the

188
00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,799
unexpected happened. But I think that
Fury, I don't think he was hurt

189
00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:45,759
on the knockdown. I think he
was more embarrassed because you know, when

190
00:11:45,799 --> 00:11:48,960
the when the TV shot was there, they were looking right at his face

191
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,159
when he was on the floor,
and he looked more like oh shit,

192
00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,200
as opposed to like I'm hurt.
He got up really quickly, right,

193
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:56,480
he didn't know. He shook it
off pretty easy. I think it was

194
00:11:56,519 --> 00:12:01,200
more embarrassment than actually being in a
position where he get knocked out. Uh.

195
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:01,919
You know, in the post interview
he did say, you know,

196
00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:05,879
my legs were fine. He referred
to as a flash knockdown. I think

197
00:12:05,879 --> 00:12:07,919
it was maybe a little more than
a flash knocked. Then it did kind

198
00:12:07,919 --> 00:12:11,080
of catch him, uh you know, in a not illegally but kind of

199
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:15,960
almost almost on the borderline behind the
head. Uh. So it was the

200
00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,559
biggest moment of the fight. But
I never thought that Fury is gonna,

201
00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:20,279
you know, not be able to
continue or going to get knocked out.

202
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,399
But it was a very memorable moment. It is the only most memorable moment

203
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,399
of the fight. Obviously, I
don't know what fear where they go now.

204
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,240
I mean, let's put it like
this here. You have the fight

205
00:12:31,279 --> 00:12:33,240
that just ended where a lot of
people thought that the guy lost even though

206
00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,279
he got the win, and they're
doing a face off with Alexander Usik in

207
00:12:37,279 --> 00:12:39,159
the ring, you know, and
there was like no excitement about that because

208
00:12:39,159 --> 00:12:41,559
all they're thinking about is this guy
does not knocked on his as by an

209
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:46,919
MMA guy. I think the luster
for a Theory Usik undisputed fight, while

210
00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,080
still historically important from the standpoint of
being an undisputed champion uh to be crowned

211
00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:54,039
with the winner, lost a lot
of luster based on what happened there.

212
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,519
I mean, as I was somebody
yesterday after the fight, the biggest loser

213
00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:03,799
of the fight, besides Tyson Fury's
rep vitation was probably Alexander Usik, who's

214
00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,240
seeing a fight that's supposed to be
this megafight is no longer as big as

215
00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:09,639
it's you know, a couple like
an hour earlier. But I mean,

216
00:13:09,919 --> 00:13:13,039
in his defense and We've been over
this and been over this. He's the

217
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,120
one that wanted to have the fight, and Fury messed around earlier this year,

218
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,960
and eventually Usak said enough with all
the haggling and then went ahead and

219
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,320
fought Dubois instead. So I can't
blame him. All he can do is

220
00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:31,080
fight Fury whenever Fury gets in front
of him. Interesting, Frank Warren said

221
00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:35,720
in the aftermath, basically confirming it's
not going to happen on the proposed date

222
00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:37,200
of December twenty third. It's going
to be much later, all right.

223
00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:41,240
So what we are now, some
sixteen hours or so after all this has

224
00:13:41,279 --> 00:13:45,360
taken place, You've been doing a
little digging. What is the Rayfield thought

225
00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,240
process and timeline on when we might
see this? And from what you think

226
00:13:48,399 --> 00:13:52,320
here about digging, this is not
digging. This is common fucking sense.

227
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,120
When they made the match in the
first place, the folks that announced the

228
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,960
fight from Saudi Arabia, who bankrolling
the both events, made it they did.

229
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,080
I never announced date because you can't
announce a fight when you don't know

230
00:14:03,159 --> 00:14:05,200
what's gonna happen on October twenty eighth. You know a loss number one,

231
00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:09,919
obviously, but certainly. The other
aspect of it was any kind of injury

232
00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,360
or for you know, whatever may
happen physically to Tyson Fury hard fight.

233
00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,320
He got cut, not bad enough
where it's gonna have like a ton of

234
00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:20,960
stitches. This is not that kind
of situation, but with the cut there.

235
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,000
Plus again, Fury's not a guy
that's ever been like wanting to get

236
00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:26,600
back to back to back fights.
The guy's coming off in an eleven month

237
00:14:26,679 --> 00:14:28,440
layoff, and now all of a
sudden he's gonna jump during twice in eight

238
00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,320
weeks. I never bought that for
two seconds. I mean, there was

239
00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:35,679
some talking about, you know,
some of the folks from the UK who

240
00:14:35,679 --> 00:14:41,559
are going crazy because the prospect of
Fury versus Busick taking taking place on December

241
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:45,720
twenty third, and Eddie Hearn had
been talking about possibly trying to get the

242
00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,759
fight between Connor ben And and Chris
Hubang Junior in the ring on December twenty

243
00:14:50,759 --> 00:14:52,480
third, and I was asked,
why do you think there's gonna be a

244
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:56,559
problem with them competing against you?
Them like guys slow your role. Not

245
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,039
only are those fights not going to
compete against each other, which is not

246
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:03,919
even remotely possibility given that they're attracting
the same exact audience, and people are

247
00:15:03,919 --> 00:15:05,759
not stupid and they're not gonna like
slip their own throat for the finances on

248
00:15:05,799 --> 00:15:09,960
the fight. Not only why I
be surprised if it both happen on the

249
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:11,879
same day, I'm gonna be surprised
if what happens on that date. And

250
00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:16,919
now Connor Ben is not fighting you
bank on that date, and Fury and

251
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,080
Usaker not fighting on that date,
so you ask when will the Theory fight

252
00:15:20,159 --> 00:15:24,679
happen? With Usik they have a
contract. The whole point here was for

253
00:15:24,799 --> 00:15:30,720
this second fight of the two fight
deal with the Saudi's meaning the undisputed fight

254
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,879
to take place before the end of
the read season festival in Riyad. This

255
00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:43,120
fight between Theory and Naganu was the
opening ceremony of that festival that lasts for

256
00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:46,639
a few months, so it doesn't
end until like the late February time frame.

257
00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:50,480
So I think that's where you're looking. If it ends up happening,

258
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,000
you're talking about like late January,
sometime in February. But Fury's gonna have

259
00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,960
some say so over that depends how
you know his health is and how he's

260
00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,200
feeling. All right, and then
the one more question and we'll move on

261
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:04,600
if you want to. Then we
have the conversation where we talked about how,

262
00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,519
you know, lots of people make
a lot of plans and nothing actually

263
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,879
and then once the Sunday comes around, a lot of shit's different. And

264
00:16:11,919 --> 00:16:12,840
then I say that to you in
one of our shows. I think,

265
00:16:12,879 --> 00:16:15,720
so, yes, this is exactly
the same thing. There was all these

266
00:16:15,759 --> 00:16:21,279
discussions about plans and schedules up until
you know, uh, the fight on

267
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:23,879
Saturday, and now none of it
matters because of what happened on Saturday.

268
00:16:23,919 --> 00:16:29,879
So the whatever people are planning is
all fucking bullshit because it doesn't matter until

269
00:16:29,919 --> 00:16:33,279
the actual fight that we're all already
coach Larry Merchant, who you've already quoted

270
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,440
this podcast the theater of the unexpected. It's always the theater the unexpected.

271
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,120
So one more point on this,
then we'll move on. What kind of

272
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:45,799
future does in Ghanu have on the
basis of this, if he even has

273
00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:51,440
one? What he definitely happened,
what you what's your take? Has the

274
00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:53,720
future in boxing and he wants to
pursue that, and it's pretty clear based

275
00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,360
on his pre fight comments and his
postfight comments that boxing is near and dear

276
00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:00,320
to his heart. It's what he
wanted the first place, before he ever

277
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,519
got into MMA. It says what
happened. He was really good at MMA

278
00:17:03,599 --> 00:17:07,440
and could make money in MMA,
but boxing is what he always wanted to

279
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,559
do from everything he has been talking
about. And so he does have a

280
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,960
contract with PFL in terms of Knicked
Martial Arts, so he does have an

281
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,799
obligation there. I believe it's supposed
to be his next event. We're not

282
00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,640
sure you know when that will happen
or who will a fighter under what circumstances.

283
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,799
But after that, I mean he's
got the pick of the litter.

284
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:30,359
If you're a promoter, I don't
believe he's got any promotional ties in boxing.

285
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,519
PFL is his MMA promoter and he's
a partner with them on that deal.

286
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,599
If you're Frank Warren, if you're
top rank, if you're Eddie Hearn,

287
00:17:40,759 --> 00:17:44,720
if you're Al Hayman, if you're
Oscar del Oya, if you're anybody,

288
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,359
how could you not want to be
involved with the guy. He's got

289
00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:51,640
a tremendous amount of ability, he's
got charisma. He put up a great

290
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,680
performance against you know, the guy
that's been the number one heavyweight for a

291
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:59,200
while. He made it, you
know, entertaining. He's got a tremendous

292
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,480
story, A very likable guy in
terms of his personality and the way he

293
00:18:02,519 --> 00:18:04,720
carries himself. Uh, you know, I'm a Francis and the guy who

294
00:18:04,799 --> 00:18:07,920
fan. I didn't really know much
about him. I don't watch MMA,

295
00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:11,160
but all the build up to this
fight, and and and and seeing him

296
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:15,160
in interviews, and then watching the
match, and I've gone back on YouTube

297
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,359
and watch a couple of fights that
he had in UFC. I mean,

298
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,559
a likable guy, no doubt about
it. So I'm going back to somebody.

299
00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,519
I'm going I'm going back to Willie
Sutton when you're robbing the banks.

300
00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,000
That's because that's where the money is. He just made reportedly, I saw

301
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,039
this in the British media, guaranteed
over eight million dollars. He didn't make.

302
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:37,880
I know this, he didn't make
eight million combined in his last three

303
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,880
UFC fights, because those fighters don't
make that kind of money. By the

304
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,839
podcast, ten million dollars for this
fight, gar so ten million. That's

305
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,720
before the points on the paper view
that might that might have that might have

306
00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:53,519
been five or six MMA main events. Under the ultimate fighting model, and

307
00:18:53,559 --> 00:18:57,119
how they don't pay the fighters anywhere
near what the big time boxers make.

308
00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:00,559
So he's at my point, absolute
lutely going to be back in a boxing

309
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:06,880
ring somewhere down the road to collect
another eight figure pay day of some kind

310
00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,839
with down the road. All right, other thoughts, No, I'm just

311
00:19:10,839 --> 00:19:12,759
saying, like I think that if
you made him with any of the forget

312
00:19:12,799 --> 00:19:15,799
you know, first of all,
the Fury rematch will always be there,

313
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:18,400
and I think that should happen at
some point. A lot of people will

314
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:22,119
want to see a number one,
but he could be in the ring with

315
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:23,039
anybody else. You know, you
want to tell me you were to make

316
00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:26,279
in a Francis Nano against Deontay Wilder, I'm in. You want to tell

317
00:19:26,319 --> 00:19:30,440
me you're making in against uh Anthony
Joshua count me in? Uh? I

318
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,759
mean those are interesting matchups, you
know, pick a pick a cop contender.

319
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:37,519
Uh. You know he is,
He's a real guy. He's shown

320
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:44,519
he can do it. He came
off a two year layoff essentially right and

321
00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:48,559
a knee surgery and injury. He
never performed him before, and he basically,

322
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,000
you know, at worst lost by
one point to the Heavyweight champion.

323
00:19:55,319 --> 00:20:00,279
Rest of that card before we move
on to the Dezonne match Room Mexic Coast

324
00:20:00,319 --> 00:20:03,720
City World title card there what else? What else from this? I mean,

325
00:20:03,759 --> 00:20:07,839
the undercard was a disappointment. I
thought on paper was better than it

326
00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,119
turned out to be. Uh.
The co feature was the Fabia Wardley David

327
00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:15,920
Adelai fight for the British title that
Fabia worldly held and the vacant Commonwealth title.

328
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,319
A meaningful fight in British boxing.
Both guys you know, on the

329
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,799
rise in their in their mid to
late twenties. Both guys were undefeated some

330
00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,359
bad blood because of the brawl that
they and their teams got into at the

331
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:30,799
kickoff news conference in London a couple
of months ago before you know, when

332
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:33,559
they were announcing this event. But
it did not surprise me that Wordy won

333
00:20:33,599 --> 00:20:37,680
the fight. He looked pretty good. He scored a seventh round knockout in

334
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:41,920
a pretty dominating fashion. And you
know, Wardley is Uh. I don't

335
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,160
know if he's the future heavyweight Chamber
of the world, but he's certainly a

336
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:47,640
guy that can find himself in some
more significant fights, you know, as

337
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,240
he moves on with his career.
Uh. You know, Adelier made a

338
00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:53,559
very very bad mistake at the end
of the fight where he he the referee

339
00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:57,160
saved his life probably, but he
pushed the referee in the ring. He

340
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,839
can't put your hands on the official. He's gonna probably take a fine and

341
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,119
a suspension for that. But for
Wardley, this was a career biggest win

342
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:07,200
on a big stage. Good for
him. Uh, you know, he

343
00:21:07,279 --> 00:21:11,759
scored a knockdown with a real nice
combination. There was a good right hand

344
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,279
left hand to the head. You
know, Adelaide looked like he was wrecked

345
00:21:15,319 --> 00:21:17,039
on that. He was laying with
his head on the ropes. There was

346
00:21:17,079 --> 00:21:18,680
blood that filling up his mouth.
You know, he was wearing on white

347
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,759
mouth piece that turn basically pink and
red. And so he, to Adelie's

348
00:21:23,759 --> 00:21:26,799
credit, he beat the count.
I mean, it was a hard knockdown,

349
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,079
but he was pretty much done and
Wordley jumped him and just you know,

350
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,599
he was teeing off on him when
the referee approprily stopped the fight and

351
00:21:33,599 --> 00:21:36,720
then he pushed the ref and that
was not cool. But for Wardley,

352
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,200
uh, you know, I say
it's uh, he got the last laugh

353
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:44,799
because when they got into that brawl
at the news conference, it was Wardley

354
00:21:44,839 --> 00:21:47,440
that walked away with a cut on
his eye and a cut on his chin,

355
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:49,640
and this is the time when they
did it for real and it mattered.

356
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:52,079
He knocked the guy out, so
good win for Wardley. And then

357
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,720
the other fights he had Joseph Parker, you know, the former WBO champion

358
00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:00,240
who was a good friend and training
partner of Tyson Fury. He blew away

359
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:03,279
Simon Keen. It was I thought
I wouldn't say it was a fight that

360
00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:07,519
I thought was gonna be a classic
and that it was a super you know,

361
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:11,799
competitive close fight, but I figured
Keen would hang in and give competition

362
00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,920
to Parker for a few rounds.
Did not turn out that way. Joseph

363
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,599
Parker looked pretty good, scored a
third round knockout, beautiful uppercut that ended

364
00:22:18,599 --> 00:22:21,839
the night. Put him on his
on all fours and you know he's kind

365
00:22:21,839 --> 00:22:25,519
of done and no way he was
beating that count. And the one that

366
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:30,319
was the blatant mismatch of the of
the more experienced fighters was the Machmandov fight

367
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:33,720
where he blitzed Junior right in what
one minute and ten seconds, I want

368
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:38,480
to say, just blew out a
complete stiff and the prospect that Frank Warren

369
00:22:38,519 --> 00:22:41,759
put on the card. It was
the very interesting guy to take a look

370
00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:45,000
at the British South pop Moses Etama, who's only eighteen years old. He's

371
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,720
now six to zero with four knockouts. He beat Istavan Bernath on a first

372
00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:52,799
round knockout, and you know he's
a he's a guy to watch. I

373
00:22:52,799 --> 00:22:55,440
mean, I didn't really draw anything
because he wasn't facing any kind of like

374
00:22:55,559 --> 00:23:00,240
real quality opponent, but he certainly
has physical attributes that make you interest to

375
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,799
see how he develops. All right, let's move on to that match room

376
00:23:03,839 --> 00:23:08,039
des own show for Oshaki Foster's WBC
one hundred and thirty pound title. We

377
00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:11,640
did talk a lot in the preview
mode about what kind of fight would we

378
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,519
get from Rocky Hernandez level of competition, et cetera. We handicapped it on

379
00:23:17,519 --> 00:23:21,119
the bet Us fight. You and
I believed in Foster ultimately by decision.

380
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,799
We touched on this a little bit
at the top of the show. Let's

381
00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:27,640
let's get into it now again.
Full disclosure from me because by the time

382
00:23:27,759 --> 00:23:32,559
I got done with the dinner,
et cetera, I joined this fight late.

383
00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:34,720
I've not seen the entire fight.
The only the only thing I've seen

384
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:38,640
is the outrage at the scoring,
in particular the one judge that had an

385
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,519
eleven. Nothing for Hernandez. Give
me the ray feel insight, because I

386
00:23:42,519 --> 00:23:45,480
know you were on this from the
jump, well from the jump. I

387
00:23:47,039 --> 00:23:48,920
did not watch it live from the
first about six or seven rounds. Also

388
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:53,200
because I was finishing writing the Tyson
Fury story and didn't you know, so

389
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,720
I was kind of paying half assed
attention to it, going back and forth

390
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,279
on my browser to look at that
and then write a little bit on my

391
00:23:59,599 --> 00:24:03,519
theory and the Ganu story. But
in the end, as I say every

392
00:24:03,519 --> 00:24:06,839
week when we talk about the fights, when we do the recaps, the

393
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,599
main thing was it was a good
fight. If you spent your time to

394
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,640
watch this fight, you came away
had to be satisfied. It was a

395
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,920
more entertaining actually than I expected.
Not to say, I thought it would

396
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:19,319
be a pretty good fight, but
it turned out to be even better than

397
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:23,640
I anticipated. Because O'shaki Foster,
even though he has a lot of boxing

398
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,640
skills, you know, he's not
afraid to mix it up. And Rocky

399
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,839
Hernandez, who maybe doesn't have the
greatest skills in the world always wants to

400
00:24:30,839 --> 00:24:33,279
mix it up, and that's exactly
what happened, and so they kind of

401
00:24:33,279 --> 00:24:36,880
collided. But Rocky Hernandez, he
did a hell of a job and he

402
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,519
was winning the fight. We'll get
into the scoring. I don't think it

403
00:24:38,559 --> 00:24:41,519
was as much of a blowout as
at least one of the judges had it.

404
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,440
But going into that eleventh round and
then obviously into the twelfth round,

405
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:51,720
wors O'shaki ultimately got the knockout.
They they as I mentioned at the beginning

406
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,039
of the show, because in Mexico, the WBC fights are used open scoring,

407
00:24:55,039 --> 00:24:57,400
which means everybody knows what the scores
are after round four and after round

408
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,519
eight. So after round eight and
also after round four, Foster and his

409
00:25:02,599 --> 00:25:07,119
team know that they're losing at least
on two of the scorecards, and they're

410
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:12,640
losing somewhat wide on two of those
score cards. So the urgency, if

411
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,200
you will, is there to make
sure that you take care of business or

412
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,559
you going to lose your championship in
your first title defense, and Oshaki Foster

413
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,599
went after it, and rock Herenendez
obviously he knows the scores too. He

414
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,519
wants to make sure he preserves his
lead and so he was still going after

415
00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:29,039
it. Also, he doesn't have
the kind of skills where you can just

416
00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:32,119
sit on the lead and just you
know, move around. I remember one

417
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:36,240
time, years and years ago talking
to Shane Mosley about open scoring, which

418
00:25:36,279 --> 00:25:38,680
I'm not a proponent of at all
for a lot of different reasons. One

419
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,240
of the reasons that sticks to my
mind is because what Shane Moseley said that

420
00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:44,480
that he goes if I'm in a
boxing match. This is when Shane was

421
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,200
coming off the win over the second
win over Oscar de la Hoya and was,

422
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:49,720
you know, one of the top
pound four pound fighters in the world,

423
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:55,359
and he was the reigning junior middleweight
world champion, and he visited our

424
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,000
office at USA Today to talk to
the editors and he was doing some publicity

425
00:25:59,279 --> 00:26:00,920
and it was like a little break
and he was literally just sitting with me

426
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:06,000
at my desk and we were shooting
the shit and open scoring was in the

427
00:26:06,039 --> 00:26:07,599
news and I asked him about it
and he was like, you know,

428
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,480
what, if I know I'm winning
a fight after eight rounds, I said,

429
00:26:10,519 --> 00:26:11,920
I've got the kind of ability where
I can make sure I don't get

430
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:14,920
touched for four rounds. And I'm
just gonna do what I got to do

431
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,839
to win the fight. And that
made me think to myself, Okay,

432
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,960
well that's not going to make for
a very appealing right right. You've talked

433
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:25,799
about that before that it can backfire
on guys decide to go on cruise control

434
00:26:25,839 --> 00:26:27,960
because they know they haven't won.
Now, in this case, that obviously

435
00:26:29,039 --> 00:26:32,880
turned out to be the opposite of
that, because it kind of forced Foster,

436
00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:37,119
although he probably must have realized he's
losing the fight anyway, wasn't like

437
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:38,960
that complicated in terms of who's winning, even if you don't agree with some

438
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:45,160
of For clarity, the one judge
gave every round all the way through the

439
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,839
first eleven, so he's obviously got
at eighty seventy two after eight rounds.

440
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:52,960
The other judge that had Hernandez winning
after eight rounds had him up six points

441
00:26:53,039 --> 00:26:59,200
seventy nine to seventy three. The
third judge that ended up having Foster ahead

442
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,680
going into the twelve round, he
had to fight even at seventy six each,

443
00:27:02,759 --> 00:27:06,640
So just for clarity, that's where
it stood after eight and then came

444
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:11,279
the dramatics, in particular that eleventh
round. My god, so Foster is

445
00:27:11,319 --> 00:27:14,680
really pressing because he knows, you
know, it's kind of kind of he's

446
00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,880
got to get the job done if
he's going to keep the title. And

447
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:21,079
you know, we saw round eleven. I know there's still a couple of

448
00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:22,680
months left in the year and anything
can happen. There's still plenty of fights

449
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,920
to go, but you're gonna be
hard pressed to find a more dramatic and

450
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:33,440
action packed round than round eleven between
Oshaki Foss and Eduardo Rocky Hernandez. These

451
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:40,839
two guys just tore into each other, but the drama was because Foster knows

452
00:27:40,839 --> 00:27:45,480
he's trailing. He's beating the living
shit out of Eduardo Hernandez has him probably

453
00:27:45,519 --> 00:27:49,720
literally one punch from the fight being
top. The referee, Hector Afu,

454
00:27:49,759 --> 00:27:55,119
who's a very experienced referee, is
looking he's about to jump in. Rocky's

455
00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,880
barely getting off a punch here and
there. I'm like the fight at this

456
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,920
point, obviously, I'm watching the
fight closely. The fight's gonna be stopped

457
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,359
and Foster's gonna win the title,
and I'm pissed because we had to go

458
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,359
in the distance, and uh,
we're gonna lose out on that. You

459
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,359
know. By around on the show, we did have the over. We

460
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:15,039
did have the over, as by
the way, we ended up losing on

461
00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:18,799
that on the decision by twenty two
seconds or whatever it was. But in

462
00:28:18,839 --> 00:28:22,079
any event, so he's beating him
up bad, like the fight's gonna be

463
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,359
stopped. Hernandez is bleeding, He's
all over the place. At one point

464
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,400
he turns his back sideways. Frankly, the referee could have stopped right there,

465
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,839
that's right. He turned his back
and amazingly at the home where you

466
00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:37,359
think the fit's over and the ref's
gonna stop it, and he's turning his

467
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:38,400
back and he's bleeding, and he's
all over the place. He can barely

468
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:42,799
fucking stand up. He comes back
and he starts beating the shit out of

469
00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:47,160
Foster, who maybe got to either
punched himself out a little bit or maybe

470
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,119
got a little over confident and left
himself open because he thinks he's about to

471
00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,680
get the knockout. And he comes
back and has Foster badly hurt in the

472
00:28:52,759 --> 00:28:55,960
round, and then they're just teeing
off on each other. It was a

473
00:28:56,519 --> 00:29:00,920
really amazing round, epic round.
I don't know, you're you're the greatest

474
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,759
resource. Is there another round that
came to your mind immediately, that is

475
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:08,400
in that category for this year.
I can't think of one, and we've

476
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:12,039
been doing this all year long,
but I couldn't think of one that jumped

477
00:29:12,039 --> 00:29:17,960
out immediately. Especially I thought of
the back and I think this is the

478
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,839
fight between Navarrete and Liam Wilson.
Yes, there was there was around there.

479
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,119
You're right where now Barante was maybe
almost out of it, and I

480
00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:27,480
think he knocked Liam Wilson down.
So that's this is why you are who

481
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:32,599
you are. But that what I
texted to you, because I said,

482
00:29:32,599 --> 00:29:36,400
I'm in my hotel room, I'm
trying to relax. I had already taken

483
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,440
a shower. I'm not gonna get
TMI here, good waterflow pressure by the

484
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,000
way, and rolling withth Carolina.
I'm trying. I'm trying to relax.

485
00:29:42,319 --> 00:29:48,440
And I sat up off the couch
watching that and went, Holy cap And

486
00:29:48,519 --> 00:29:52,640
I texted you and said, that's
in the neighborhood of Hagler and hearns it's

487
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,400
not the same. It's not Hall
of Fame fighters. But folks, I've

488
00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,720
I've put two or three people already
last night in the day on to go

489
00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:06,200
watch this replay and watch the eleventh
round. Go see the eleventh round of

490
00:30:06,279 --> 00:30:10,279
this fight. To that end,
I think Foster was legitimately hurt too,

491
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,759
where he's maybe a moment from going
down or in danger of being head In

492
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,720
the post fight interview, he talked
about like, you know that he caught

493
00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:22,400
him real good and that you know, he basically gave Rocky Hernandez credit for

494
00:30:22,519 --> 00:30:26,079
being every bit the puncher he was
built up to be, and and so

495
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:30,519
you know he he so that that
was the eleventh round, and now the

496
00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:34,519
twelfth round starts, and he still
has to think I need the knockout.

497
00:30:34,599 --> 00:30:38,160
I mean, maybe he won,
at least I thought he won the he

498
00:30:38,759 --> 00:30:42,000
did the corner say afterwards, again, I'm deferring to you. I don't

499
00:30:42,039 --> 00:30:48,720
know this that they definitely knew those
scorecards and he definitely do I need a

500
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:53,839
knockout because I don't know how where
he was or Yeah, Bobby Benton,

501
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:59,119
his his UH trainer was definitely tell
him to go after it. I just

502
00:30:59,119 --> 00:31:02,240
don't remember what word he used as
far as like how urgent it was.

503
00:31:02,319 --> 00:31:04,480
But clearly he can't take the chance. You can't take the chance. Plus,

504
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:07,920
you're in Mexico, you're in the
guy's backyard. That's right. You

505
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,440
know you're not going to mess around. And you know again to O'shaqi Foster's

506
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,079
credit. He know the deal and
he knows he's on the road and he's

507
00:31:15,599 --> 00:31:18,839
not the crowd favorite, and no
one's doing him any favors. It's rock

508
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,599
Heronandez is a matxroom fighter, it's
a matchroom event. Oshaki Foster is a

509
00:31:22,599 --> 00:31:26,759
promotional free agent. No one's doing
him any favors, and so he took

510
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,880
Matt. You know, I'm sure
he's not the only boxer to ever say

511
00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:32,599
this, but the one I remember
seeing at first I always think about is

512
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,839
Lennox Lewis. I'm bringing my own
two judges. That's right. He holds

513
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,880
up his right hand, he holds
up his left hand. Well, O

514
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,599
Shacqie Foster brought his own two judges
to that fight last night because in a

515
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,799
round twelve he finished what he started
around eleven. He got him out of

516
00:31:42,799 --> 00:31:48,039
there and did a great job.
And I thought the referee was really generous,

517
00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:51,920
benevolent, whatever you want to use
that. After the second knockdown,

518
00:31:52,319 --> 00:31:56,720
because Hernandez did not respond, did
not put the gloves up, he wobbled

519
00:31:57,039 --> 00:32:00,680
that that could have been over right
there. He let him get hit some

520
00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:04,720
more. And I'm not over dramatizing
this. That's where somebody can get seriously

521
00:32:04,799 --> 00:32:07,000
hurt, because I think part of
it was let him finish, if he

522
00:32:07,039 --> 00:32:09,480
can finish the round, we're close
to the end. But man, uh,

523
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:14,240
just great dramatics. It turns out
he needed it. Shout out to

524
00:32:14,279 --> 00:32:17,079
Corey Erdman on the play by play, Now the Latin snake was not there,

525
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:22,079
Sergio Martinez or Sergio more excuse me? On the commentary, who is

526
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,640
the James if you know, he
kept saying James, and I joined it

527
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,559
late. Whoever the James was,
that's obviously a former fighter in the analyst

528
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,799
he was screaming over the top of
Erdman in excitement. I think it was

529
00:32:34,799 --> 00:32:37,960
Gay Risotto. Maybe it was I
thought he said James, and I'll defer

530
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,119
to you again on who it was. Maybe it was Gay Brisotto and he

531
00:32:39,119 --> 00:32:45,279
had Claudia Treo's right. I was
Risotto Claudia. So they were animated,

532
00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:49,119
and that that added to the drama
and added to the moment. I get

533
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,200
that. It's just the analyst was
screaming over the top of Corey. A

534
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,079
lot of that eleventh and twelfth round. That was a little much, but

535
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,039
this was dramatic stuff. Folks,
give it credit, give it credit for

536
00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:00,160
what it was. Huge win for
Fosse, so as I always do,

537
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:05,920
what happens next now for Foster,
after this win, he's become like a

538
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:07,119
kind of guy that you want to
watch. I mean, he when he

539
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:09,839
was coming up and he was on
Showbox and he had a couple of losses.

540
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:13,440
I mean, I'm not like holding
the losses against it, but he

541
00:33:13,519 --> 00:33:15,759
was not in the most exciting,
entertaining fights. I thought the fight against

542
00:33:16,799 --> 00:33:22,440
Jacobov that was in Dubai when he
got the one the eliminator, that was

543
00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:24,559
maybe not classic fight of the year, but it was a pretty solid fight.

544
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:28,680
He scored a twelve round knockdown against
Jakabov to you know, I mean,

545
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,960
he won pretty wide on the cards, but he didn't know for sure

546
00:33:30,359 --> 00:33:32,799
that that sealed it up for me. Won and he got the knockdown in

547
00:33:32,799 --> 00:33:36,559
the last round, and he won
the vacant title against Ray Vargas, who

548
00:33:36,599 --> 00:33:39,160
he handed his first lawsuit. That
was in February of this year on Showtime.

549
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:42,799
Again, not the fight of the
year, but not a bad fight

550
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:45,880
at all, and now he comes
in to fight on the road against Rocky

551
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,039
Hernandez and has an exciting fight and
a tremendous finish in a round of the

552
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:52,759
year. You know what Oshaki Foster
is. He's kind of grown on me

553
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:57,720
over the last several fights. As
far as what's next, he did what

554
00:33:57,799 --> 00:33:59,960
he did in the pre fight.
He called out Joe Cordina. He wants

555
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,720
unify with the IBF champion. Cordeina
fights next week in Monte Carlo on his

556
00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:07,960
own in a fight that he'll be
a heavy favorite in. Mattroom is the

557
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:12,599
promoter of Rocky Ernandez and did the
show on Saturday. They're also the promoter

558
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,880
of Cordeina and are doing the show
next Saturday. As I mentioned, is

559
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,519
my understanding that although he fought on
the Mattrium card, he's not signed to

560
00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:22,280
mattriom. Mattrium did the fight with
Hernandez because Mattrium Boxing won the purse bid.

561
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,480
But I think if he can get
a fight with Cordina, it seems

562
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,480
like a very doable fight. No
reason why they can't make that. You

563
00:34:30,519 --> 00:34:32,079
know, he has the IBF title
Cordeina. But if you make if you

564
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:36,559
make a unification and you're not in
your mandatory period. They'll definitely approve the

565
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:39,760
fight if you go by if you
follow their their rules to get an exception.

566
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,320
It's literally in their rules that they'll
allow a unification before a mandatory as

567
00:34:44,320 --> 00:34:47,320
long as it's done before the mandatory
is ordered. So if he wins next

568
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:51,559
week Cordina, I don't see any
reason why they can't do that fight.

569
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,239
It's probably the bigger, biggest fight
that Cordeina can have at the moment of

570
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:59,800
what's available as a unification. Oshaki
Fosster was clear as day. If it

571
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,440
means going to the UK to do
the fight, fine, you know,

572
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:04,800
as he said, you know,
the ring is the ring. You know,

573
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:07,960
it's still the ring, no matter
whether you're in the in the United

574
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,920
States or if you're in the guys
hometown. It's all the same. So

575
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,199
I like that attitude and I would
like to see that fight. I think

576
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,079
actually based on watching O'shaki in his
last couple of fights and the kind of

577
00:35:17,239 --> 00:35:21,880
puncher and kind of exciting fights we've
seen Guardina in like rock them Off for

578
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,280
example, I think that's a heck
of a fight. You know, one

579
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:28,719
more one more quick thing. So
the judge in question and this was all

580
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:31,360
over social media. I believe that
this person is more of a referee than

581
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:36,199
a judge. And you've often talked
and we discussed this. They sometimes use

582
00:35:36,679 --> 00:35:39,639
referees as judges, and then they
referee another fight, and then a referee

583
00:35:39,679 --> 00:35:44,239
that was earlier is now a judge
in the next fight. That's the judge

584
00:35:44,519 --> 00:35:51,320
in this case that gave eleven straight
rounds to Rocky Hernandez here, which again,

585
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,599
where is the accountability at some point
on that card even his two colleagues

586
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,079
when you talk about the range of
acceptable scoring. When I picked this thing

587
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:01,760
up in the seventh round, I
fought, Foster won the eighth, the

588
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,719
ninth, the tenth, and the
eleventh round. All right, his colleagues

589
00:36:06,119 --> 00:36:08,960
on the cards. The one judge
that still had Hernandez ahead, gave him

590
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,280
the eighth, the ninth, and
the eleventh, then give him the tenth.

591
00:36:12,559 --> 00:36:16,800
The other judge that had Foster winning
obviously gave him every round eight,

592
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,559
nine, ten, and eleven.
And then you you have a judge that

593
00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:25,760
doesn't give Foster a single round where
he's behind eleven nothing. When I heard

594
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,639
that score, and I have to
tell you what I always think about about

595
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,639
those types of Horendus Scores. Yeah, and I'm I'm sure this is not

596
00:36:32,679 --> 00:36:35,760
the only example, but I think
about it because it was a fight that

597
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:39,440
I covered at ringside and remember having
a really close fight, a great fight,

598
00:36:39,519 --> 00:36:43,519
a fight of the year type of
candidate. And that was the first

599
00:36:43,559 --> 00:36:49,719
match between Paul Williams and Sergio Martinez. This is it was not even a

600
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,519
world title fight. It was before
Sergio became the middleweight champion. Right,

601
00:36:52,559 --> 00:36:54,800
you've talked about this one before.
Go ahead, Yes, this is in

602
00:36:54,840 --> 00:37:00,400
Atlantic City. Uh, this is
actually the fight right before Sergio defeat Kelly

603
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,719
Pavlock to win the middleweight title.
So this is December of two thousand and

604
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:07,760
nine at the small room upstairs at
Boardwalk Call in Atlantic, say, not

605
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:12,280
the big arena where he fought Sergio
Martinez in the rematch. So Paul Williams

606
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:15,800
Sergio Martinez won tremendous battle. By
the way, as an off shoot,

607
00:37:16,039 --> 00:37:20,159
if you've never seen that fight,
worth your time. Right, you've told

608
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,239
us about that, right, great
fight. So they trade knockdowns in the

609
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,639
first round, both guys are on
the deck. Phenomenal fight, and Sergio

610
00:37:28,679 --> 00:37:32,639
Martinez, or rather Paul Williams wins
the fight by a majority decision. I

611
00:37:32,679 --> 00:37:38,079
had Sergio winning very very close fight. The judges had it close one fourteen,

612
00:37:38,159 --> 00:37:42,880
one fourteen. The other judge had
Sergio winning one fifteen one to thirteen,

613
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,679
which was perfectly reasonable. I had
at one fifteen one to thirteen in

614
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:53,119
favor of Paul Williams and Pierre Binnoi's
the judge in a fight where they both

615
00:37:53,199 --> 00:37:59,559
were knocked down in separate rounds.
By the way, the only round he

616
00:37:59,679 --> 00:38:04,760
gave to Paul Williams, I mean, rather a surgeon Martinez was the knockdown

617
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,920
round and it was yet at one
nineteen to one ten for Martinez. He

618
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,519
gave him eleven rounds. Same thing
as we're talking about with this this wacky

619
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:15,760
scoring in the Foster fight, and
that was even a much closer fight.

620
00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,119
So it's there's always, as they
say, there's always that one fucked up

621
00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,280
score. It just seems to happen
so all the time. I never forget

622
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,679
that particular score as long as I
lived again. Just once more, I

623
00:38:24,679 --> 00:38:28,719
know you're not saying this, where's
the accountability on? You're not using any

624
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:31,400
more world title fights, You're not
touching any more world title fights. So

625
00:38:31,559 --> 00:38:36,400
Mauricio Suliman, who was the president
of the WBC. Obviously the WBC title

626
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,280
fight, but he was in uh
Saudi Arabia at the at the Tyson Fury

627
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,960
fight, who's the WBC heavyweight champion, and they were involved in that event

628
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,039
to a small degree. So Mauricio
and I were texting early in the morning.

629
00:38:46,039 --> 00:38:51,400
He was early in the morning in
Saudi Arabia. It was very very

630
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:53,440
late night after the fight here in
the United States, and he and I

631
00:38:53,519 --> 00:38:55,480
were texting about it, and I
had asked him, you know, we

632
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,760
were just kind of going back and
forth about the fight that we had just

633
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:00,880
watched with the theory, and so
I mentioned about the Foster fight, about

634
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,960
what a great not what a great
round Round eleven was. I said,

635
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:06,440
I wasn't sure if you were able
to watch it while you're over there doing

636
00:39:06,519 --> 00:39:07,880
your stuff there, but you know, you got to make sure you check

637
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:13,960
it out. And then I mentioned
about the scoring and and he said that

638
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,199
that just does not sound right and
that when he went back and looked at

639
00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:20,519
it later he texted me and said
that was unacceptable, and uh, you

640
00:39:20,559 --> 00:39:22,599
know, they'll be I forget the
word he use, but there'll be consequences

641
00:39:22,679 --> 00:39:25,679
or something to that degree, which
he then later posted something on his Twitter

642
00:39:25,679 --> 00:39:30,280
account similarly, and so hopefully there'll
be some you know, I'm not even

643
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,960
saying you gotta like fire the guy
or discipline the guy. But let's get

644
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,280
it. Let's get an explanation.
Let's hear from the judge. What did

645
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:40,480
you see that made you be off
by that many rounds compared to your colleagues.

646
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,119
That's all you asked for is is
h is transparency. So I think

647
00:39:45,159 --> 00:39:51,519
there will be some repercussions on that
scorecard. Good on that. Also,

648
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,760
one more thing before we get to
the news. Amanda Serrano did successfully defend

649
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,519
her titles. I have to confess
again, I've not seen that. I've

650
00:39:58,559 --> 00:40:00,400
seen the recaps. Give me a
couple of quick things from that, because

651
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:04,960
this was not unexpected. She was
a massive twenty to one favorite, so

652
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,599
go ahead. It was an entertaining, one sided ass kicking because Daniell Loramos,

653
00:40:08,599 --> 00:40:13,880
who was her opponent, the WBO
interim champion and her mandatory challenger,

654
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,800
showed a lot of heart, put
up a lot of a lot of resistance

655
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,360
and you know, tried and she
went after but she was just outclassed because

656
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,360
Amanda is a much better boxer,
and a more skilled fighter, and a

657
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,880
bigger puncher, and you know,
pretty much of you were going down a

658
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,480
checklist of who had the better in
each attribute, you know, you'd probably

659
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:35,400
find an entire checklist filled with check
marks next to Amanda Toronto's name, except

660
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:37,000
maybe heart, because she did show
a lot of heart. Maybe they'd be

661
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:42,480
equal in that department. Anyway.
So Serrano defended the title one twenty one

662
00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,480
aweight on all three scorecards, and
that sounds a little interesting when I say

663
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:46,599
one twenty one weight for a women's
fight. And the reason why this was

664
00:40:46,599 --> 00:40:50,519
a big deal, as we talked
about in the preview, is because it

665
00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,280
was the first time you've, or
at least since that we can figure out

666
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,719
anyway, since two thousand and seven, that there was a women's world title

667
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:02,679
fight that went twelve rounds and three
minute rounds. That I don't even know

668
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:06,039
if that that title fight was three
minute rounds, but it was a twelve

669
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:09,159
round fight. But in terms of
at this level, in many, many

670
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,920
years, a women's championship fighter or
women's fight any kind, twelve rounds,

671
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:19,119
three minute rounds. They wanted to
be like the guys. Serrano's team pressed

672
00:41:19,159 --> 00:41:22,159
for it. Ramos was totally willing. She even talked about that in the

673
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:24,480
post fight. The Florida Commission agreed
to do it. This fight took place

674
00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:28,840
in Orlando, and you know,
it was a little bit of a history

675
00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,480
making thing in Toronto. Is looking
for other things to motivate her because she's

676
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,079
accomplished so much, and that was
a big deal for her. And she

677
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:37,760
made the point very clear after the
fight that she intends for this not to

678
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,599
be the only time she does a
twelve round fight at three minutes in length.

679
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,239
We'll see what other commissions are open
to it, or if she continues

680
00:41:44,239 --> 00:41:47,199
to fight in Florida. And so
from that standpoint, you know, like

681
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:53,119
I said, good one sided fight. And on that same card they announcedaid

682
00:41:53,159 --> 00:41:57,039
that when Jake Paul comes back and
fights in December, it will also take

683
00:41:57,039 --> 00:42:00,039
place there in Orlando and that sort
of stuff. So so you know it,

684
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:04,599
it was pretty good. I'm glad
they didn't conflict on the Saturday because

685
00:42:04,639 --> 00:42:07,159
we already had a busy day with
Theory and with O'shaki Foss. So let's

686
00:42:07,159 --> 00:42:09,039
spread it out. I mean,
there's seven days in a week. I

687
00:42:09,079 --> 00:42:13,199
don't know why everything's got to be
on a Saturday night, but do some

688
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,599
Friday nights as perfectly fine. Also
a little more for us to enjoy and

689
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:19,079
not be all crammed at the same
time. So I watched it. It

690
00:42:19,119 --> 00:42:21,800
was good in they not listen.
There was on the undercard of that fight,

691
00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:22,960
not that it was like the biggest
deal in the world, but the

692
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,119
co future on that card, by
the way, was a fighter named Damien

693
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:30,960
les Kai who's now like six to
oh I guess, fighting an opponent named

694
00:42:30,039 --> 00:42:35,079
Ray Barlow who was seven and three
going into the fight. Sport a gigantic

695
00:42:35,159 --> 00:42:37,159
fight of the year, like knockout
of the year kind of knockout in the

696
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:42,480
ninth round. Definitely worth checking out
that highlight. All good stuff. Now

697
00:42:42,519 --> 00:42:45,719
some news. Interesting, Why don't
we follow up because you just mentioned Jake

698
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:52,039
Paul and the December fifteenth date that
Most Valuable Promotions has also announced another fight,

699
00:42:52,079 --> 00:42:55,400
even though Jake doesn't have an opponent
yet for the date they announced another

700
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,440
fight, So follow up on that
part of December. Yeah, so,

701
00:43:00,519 --> 00:43:05,159
right before they started the pre fight
intros for the main event between Serrano and

702
00:43:05,320 --> 00:43:10,719
Ramos, they brought Shadeza Green and
Franchion Cruise deserned into the ring and announced

703
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,280
that they will meet in the co
feature of Jake's fight on December fifteenth.

704
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,719
They will fight for the vacant WBC
women Super Middleweight title. Remember, Savannah

705
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,760
Marshall was the champion. She had
beaten Franchion Cruise for the undisputed title,

706
00:43:25,599 --> 00:43:30,360
ended up being relieved of or however
you want to describe it. She no

707
00:43:30,400 --> 00:43:34,559
longer has the WBC title because of
an injury, so she's the quote unquote

708
00:43:34,679 --> 00:43:38,239
champion in recess. She was supposed
to have a mandatory defense against against Green,

709
00:43:38,639 --> 00:43:43,519
but when she could not make that
and went into recess because she's injured,

710
00:43:43,519 --> 00:43:46,440
she's going to be out till like
April, at least with her injury.

711
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:50,320
So they made Green and Franchion Cruz, who got off to a start

712
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,039
by talking some shit in the ring, They'll make that match. I mean,

713
00:43:52,679 --> 00:43:57,639
look, Franchion Cruise was very unimpressive
when she fought against Savannah Marshall,

714
00:43:57,639 --> 00:44:00,960
and she's been, in my opinion, pretty unimpressive for most of her fights,

715
00:44:00,199 --> 00:44:04,079
except maybe in her pro debut,
which he lost, but it was

716
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:08,400
a phenomenal four round back and forth
battle with Claressa Shields. But she's in

717
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,920
position to now try to regain this
particular belt. Green is thirteen and ozer

718
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:17,280
with eleven knockouts. She was on
I think it was on Jake's last undercard.

719
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:21,880
I was kind of unimpressed after despite
all the hype that she's been getting.

720
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:23,440
But they are two of the better
women in this weight class, and

721
00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,320
they seem to have a beef with
each other, and so they'll go after

722
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,280
it for the vacant WBC title.
That's going to be the co feature.

723
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,159
And the good thing about the Jake
Paul event that's coming up is for the

724
00:44:32,159 --> 00:44:36,119
first time he will not be on
pay per view. This is going to

725
00:44:36,199 --> 00:44:38,880
be a de zone show where it's
not a pay per view. He's going

726
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:42,599
to fight an actual boxer. I
think the reason why his opponent has not

727
00:44:42,639 --> 00:44:45,960
didn't announced yet, from my understanding, is because they had an opponent,

728
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:49,400
but that opponent came up with some
kind of injury before they could announce the

729
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:53,199
fight, so they're trying to get
a new opponent for Jake. Jake's got

730
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,079
problems with an opponent that doesn't want
to fight after the the deal for whatever.

731
00:44:58,079 --> 00:45:04,880
I who knows, but a real
boxer that's a similar level of experience

732
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,000
and record. There you go,
they're searching for that. Continuing on the

733
00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:12,599
news, I saw something about this
on ead Your Inside. Keishawn Davis tested

734
00:45:12,639 --> 00:45:19,239
positive for marijuana in his recent fight
in Texas. So explain what all of

735
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:22,119
this means, including for his short
term future here. I know he took

736
00:45:22,159 --> 00:45:27,440
to social media and was saying,
didn't deny it. Was saying, hey,

737
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,320
it's actually legal where I am.
But that's not the whole story.

738
00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:34,960
Give me some more, right,
So he defeated or you know, on

739
00:45:35,039 --> 00:45:39,679
the undercard when Janebek defeated Gualtieri to
unify two of the Middleway titles. This

740
00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:44,840
is from a fight that took place
on October fourteenth. The fight was in

741
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:50,119
Rosenberg, Texas, the suburb of
Houston, and he won the fight on

742
00:45:50,199 --> 00:45:53,760
a majority decision. I thought he
dominated won pretty easily. But after the

743
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,760
fight, they took the normal drug
test and it came up positive for marijuana.

744
00:45:57,800 --> 00:45:59,559
He'd say, Okay, like you
said, marijuana is legal, and

745
00:45:59,559 --> 00:46:01,400
then he plays is it's certainly not
perceived in any way, shape or for

746
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:06,679
him as a performance enhancing drug.
It is legal in many places in the

747
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,480
United States. Why would that cause
him to have the result of the fight

748
00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:14,519
change from a victory like the Commission
and Texas did to overturn it to make

749
00:46:14,559 --> 00:46:16,079
it into a no contest. And
on top of the no contest, he

750
00:46:16,119 --> 00:46:21,679
took a ninety day suspension. And
the reason is because their rules are antiquated.

751
00:46:21,679 --> 00:46:24,599
But it's still on the ban list
and you still face a discipline if

752
00:46:24,599 --> 00:46:29,079
you test positive for it. So
that's the thing you have to I mean,

753
00:46:29,679 --> 00:46:32,320
you may disagree with it, you
may not like the rule. You

754
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:36,519
may think it's antiquated and ridiculous,
which I happen to think is the case.

755
00:46:36,559 --> 00:46:38,960
I don't smoke marijuana. It's not
my thing, but again there do

756
00:46:39,039 --> 00:46:43,480
it, and yeah, fair enough, and it's legal, but you've got

757
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:45,119
to be aware and cognizant of the
rules of the Commission you're fighting it.

758
00:46:45,159 --> 00:46:51,159
So I thought that, and I
have been covering Keishaan Davis since he turned

759
00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:53,360
pro. I picked him as my
twenty twenty two Prospect of the Year.

760
00:46:53,599 --> 00:46:58,000
He seems like a pretty mature,
grounded young man. I've had the occasion

761
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,159
of interview and speak to him be
around him a bit. First of the

762
00:47:00,199 --> 00:47:02,639
early fights in his career, so
I was a little kind of surprised when

763
00:47:02,679 --> 00:47:07,000
he went on his social media and
he said, I'm going to read the

764
00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,039
exact quote, so I get right, I apologize to my family and friends

765
00:47:09,320 --> 00:47:13,800
that I can't perform December ninth.
But and then he put this in all

766
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,480
capital letters, but I will not
stop doing something that is legal and being

767
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:20,920
sold in America. So I would
take issue and believe that to be a

768
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:24,519
very immature statement because while you may
agree with it that it's ridiculous to take

769
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:30,719
a disciplinary situation because of a of
a of a minor marijuana thing and have

770
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:35,880
your your your victory overturned to a
no contest. The reason why it's immature

771
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,480
is because if you're going to keep
doing it, you're and you're going to

772
00:47:38,519 --> 00:47:45,119
fight and commission places that that that
that tests for marijuana. You're going to

773
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:47,920
be suspended again and again and again
and again. You got to follow the

774
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,960
rules where you are. So I
use it like the same thing. Where

775
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,280
I live. You go on the
highway to speed limits sixty miles an hour

776
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,679
I think are sixty five miles an
hour, but there's other places where it's

777
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,480
seventy five. You're on a highway
in Texas. But if you're doing sef

778
00:48:01,679 --> 00:48:05,840
we're you get to take it.
You got to follow the rules where you

779
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,360
are. I would recommend Davis if
you want to smoke weed, either make

780
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,960
sure it's out of your system before
you fight, or don't fight in a

781
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,159
commission where they're going to test for
it. I hope they changed the rule

782
00:48:15,199 --> 00:48:19,679
at some point, but he's going
to take a suspension. He mentioned December

783
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,639
ninth. The reason why that's also
important. Normally, if you take a

784
00:48:22,639 --> 00:48:25,440
three month suspension as a professional boxer, it has zero impact on your schedule

785
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:29,519
because that's such a short period of
time. As it turns out, Kishan

786
00:48:29,599 --> 00:48:32,039
Davis was supposed to be back on
December ninth to fight on ESPN on a

787
00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:36,480
televised main you know, on the
main card, on the undercard when Robas

788
00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:40,480
Ramirez defends his featherweight title against Rafael
Espinoza. These are fights and cards that

789
00:48:40,559 --> 00:48:44,480
haven't been officially announced yet, but
that's what's planned. It's taking place in

790
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:47,280
Pembroke Pines, Florida, and Kishan
will not be fighting that night, and

791
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,440
that's unfortunate for him. He was
supposed to fight Jose Pedraza, the former

792
00:48:52,519 --> 00:48:57,119
two division world title older. I
am told by top rank that when he

793
00:48:57,239 --> 00:48:59,800
is eligible to fight again, they
will reschedule that fight, but it'll just

794
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:01,800
be sometime in the early part of
next year. But it's still uh.

795
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,320
I don't know about you, but
I'm sure Keishaon Davis wouldn't mind getting a

796
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,719
nice paycheck December ninth though for those
Christmas presents. But you screwed it up.

797
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,960
You screwed up. And I will
just say this just in general rules,

798
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,320
Yes, follow rules, but in
general terms, I've been around professional

799
00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:20,400
sports, covering it for a living
at many different sports, many different levels,

800
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:23,239
and the best of the best in
all of these different sports don't do

801
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,719
recreational drugs. So you need to
outgrow that. I'm just saying in general,

802
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:30,480
you need to outgrow that if that
was in your background. The best

803
00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:34,800
of the best are not recreational drug
users. You got to move on from

804
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:37,280
that. Be mature enough to move
on from that. And if you're going

805
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:43,480
to be a big I mean I
I smoke marijuana, okay, Well,

806
00:49:43,519 --> 00:49:45,400
so that and that, you know
that may be that And I don't know

807
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,039
how many of them do it in
training, and I don't know how many

808
00:49:47,079 --> 00:49:50,679
of them do it, you know, well after their careers over Mike Tyson

809
00:49:50,679 --> 00:49:54,400
obviously continues to do it. But
at most of the elite levels of professional

810
00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:00,519
sports, they're not recreational drug users. They aren't. They aren't regular recreational

811
00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:05,199
drug users because that that begins to
become a factor, it begins to become

812
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:08,000
part of their life, and it
begins begins to become a big problem.

813
00:50:08,039 --> 00:50:12,800
And we've seen it a hundred times. So I'm just making a bit hotleaxically.

814
00:50:13,079 --> 00:50:15,159
My advice to Keishaw, not that
he asked for. My advice is,

815
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,920
looks, follow the rules and you'll
be yes. All right. One

816
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:22,360
more thing, there's an injury to
Takuma in a way for his upcoming November

817
00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,199
title of fanse that is now off. Details on that, well, that

818
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,880
was a bummer. So Takuma in
a way of course, as the the

819
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:34,480
younger brother of Noya, in a
way who when Noy. When Noya vacated

820
00:50:34,519 --> 00:50:38,000
the undisputed bantam wait title and moved
up and ultimately defeated Stephen Fulton to win

821
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:43,199
two of the belts at junior Feederate, his brother won the one of the

822
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,800
belts that that his brother vact he
won the WBA title. He was scheduled

823
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,679
to make his first defense against Sherwin
and Kassas, who was the former title

824
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,320
holder at junior Vanda Waite, who
was one of the better fighters for a

825
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,239
long time in that weight class,
and that was supposed to headline of card

826
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:57,840
in Tokyo that was gonna be on
ESPN Plus here in the United States with

827
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,199
a second title fight between the flywaight
w B champion Artem Delakian against a Japanese

828
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,920
challenger. Anyway, the fight is
postponed. There's no said date when they're

829
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,320
going to reschedule it because to coom
in Away suffered a rib fracture getting ready

830
00:51:10,360 --> 00:51:14,159
for the fight in his training camp, and so now the entire card has

831
00:51:14,159 --> 00:51:16,719
been postponed, which is a bummer
because, as we've discussed many times as

832
00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:21,519
the degenerate I am, one of
my favorite things in boxing is those overseas

833
00:51:21,639 --> 00:51:24,119
Japanese cards, especially now that there's
all readily and easily available in the United

834
00:51:24,159 --> 00:51:28,719
States on ESPN Plus. So I
really enjoy those cards, and we'll just

835
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,480
have to wait probably a little bit
of time for them to reschedule it.

836
00:51:30,599 --> 00:51:35,000
Don't use the strong word degenerate.
I just think that you're well rounded.

837
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,199
No, I say I'm a digen
you call yourself that, but I have

838
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:45,599
a higher opinion of your veracity of
viewing the sport and watching the sport all

839
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:50,519
right, So that that is a
bummer, right Nostalgia time here to wrap

840
00:51:50,639 --> 00:51:54,719
it up on the podcast, and
one of the one of the fights for

841
00:51:54,920 --> 00:52:00,599
all time right now in boxing that
you know by the nickname the Rumble in

842
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:05,599
the Jungle is approaching fifty years ago. It's forty nine years ago coming on

843
00:52:06,039 --> 00:52:09,639
Monday here as we released the podcast
Sunday night into Monday, October thirtieth,

844
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:15,480
nineteen seventy four, Muhammad Ali in
the Jungle of Zaire, Africa scored.

845
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:21,280
I think you wrote it as arguably
one of the most famous boxing matches in

846
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:24,400
history. It's arguably his most famous
fight. You could have that debate.

847
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:30,519
What about the Rumble in the Jungle
almost fifty years ago. Well, of

848
00:52:30,599 --> 00:52:34,599
course famous because Ali employed what became
known as the rope ad dope strategy,

849
00:52:34,639 --> 00:52:37,760
which means let George put him on
the George Foreman put him on the ropes

850
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,400
and punch himself out. You know, it's not the wisest idea necessarily,

851
00:52:42,079 --> 00:52:44,480
especially you don't have a good chin. But Ali was blessed with maybe one

852
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:45,840
of the greatest chins in the history
of the sport. And in fact,

853
00:52:46,079 --> 00:52:50,159
George Foreman, you know, very
aggressive, punched himself out and allowed Ali

854
00:52:50,239 --> 00:52:52,599
to come back and not I think
more than just knocking out because of a

855
00:52:52,599 --> 00:52:57,440
heavy punch, but also had him
so mentally broken and so messed up and

856
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:00,760
so you know, confused and frustrated. That that led to part of what

857
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,400
happened when he dropped him in the
eighth round and ended up getting the knockout.

858
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,519
But you said that I think that
it I think my I mean,

859
00:53:09,599 --> 00:53:12,840
yeah, there's I think it's universal
that people would say it's one of the

860
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:16,079
most famous boxing matches in history.
My my personal viewpoint is the Rumble in

861
00:53:16,119 --> 00:53:23,039
the Jungle is the single most well
known fight that ever took place in the

862
00:53:23,079 --> 00:53:27,239
history of the sport. I say
that above the Thriller in Manila. I

863
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,239
say that above Ali Fraser one.
I say that above any of the famous

864
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:34,840
fights from the you know, early
part of the you know, the twentieth

865
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,920
century, whether you know a Jack
Johnson or pick a fight, you know,

866
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,920
the ones they've called fight of the
century. And because it had the

867
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:44,599
combination of everything, it was the
modern times where it could be seen across

868
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:49,960
the globe via satellite. It was
taking place in an exotic location. Muhammad

869
00:53:49,960 --> 00:53:52,280
Ali, who was a obviously a
huge name, was a huge underdog.

870
00:53:52,559 --> 00:53:57,679
He had been an underdog before,
but never to that level, so that

871
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,960
was part of it. Foreman was
a devastating heavyweight champion at the time.

872
00:54:02,199 --> 00:54:09,239
He had hummeled Kenny Norton. He
had pummeled Joe Frasier early knockouts. How

873
00:54:09,320 --> 00:54:14,519
in the world is Muhammad Ali gonna
survive? They had the whole thing because

874
00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:17,679
they went to Africa with the festival. The postponement of the fight. That

875
00:54:17,840 --> 00:54:22,480
led to a lot of the lore
of this fight because Foreman had gotten cut.

876
00:54:22,840 --> 00:54:25,760
It was delayed for six weeks.
Good nostalgia on that and a lot

877
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:30,519
of people so the young crowd we
always talked to, the millennials, the

878
00:54:30,639 --> 00:54:32,159
under thirty year olds, the gen
z s, whatever you want to call

879
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:37,920
it, take into account here.
The magnitude boxing is a mainstream, prominent

880
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:43,800
thing. Ali had made it worldwide
because he was fighting in Europe in titled

881
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:46,280
defenses. Previously was fighting all over
the place. So now they're coming to

882
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:51,239
fight in Africa, and you're right, George Foreman suffers a cut in training

883
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:54,239
in September of seventy four, and
there was real fear that he was going

884
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:59,039
to leave Africa and go back there. They wished to Texas and so Ali.

885
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,239
As the story and from what I've
read and and seen it heard about,

886
00:55:02,519 --> 00:55:07,440
Ali did a lot of convincing with
George that you need to stay here,

887
00:55:07,599 --> 00:55:09,239
we need to follow through, we
need to have this fight. It's

888
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:14,119
that big of a deal because there
was some fear that if he left,

889
00:55:14,159 --> 00:55:19,800
they weren't ever gonna fight in in
the in the after the fact, because

890
00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:22,159
Ali won first of all, at
the time, it's still to this day

891
00:55:22,239 --> 00:55:25,840
one of the biggest upsets in boxing
history because again George was a huge favorite.

892
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:30,800
Ali made a certain amount of history. Because now it's become a little

893
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,079
more common in the years, others
have done it, but at the time,

894
00:55:32,679 --> 00:55:37,880
no heavyweight champion it ever regained the
title other than Floyd Patterson, and

895
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:42,360
by Ali doing the win against George, he became only the second heavyweight to

896
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:45,159
ever regain the heavyweight championship, which
is a big deal. And by the

897
00:55:45,199 --> 00:55:49,079
way, it wasn't just some random
like I regained the w b C or

898
00:55:49,159 --> 00:55:52,480
the IBF or the w BO uh
you know, or the or the WBA

899
00:55:52,639 --> 00:55:57,960
title. That was when there was
you know, one champion basically right there

900
00:55:58,039 --> 00:56:00,920
was champion of the World Beachampionship and
he regained for the second time. So

901
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:04,199
it was a bit. He would
go on, of course to become a

902
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:08,159
three time heavyweight champion when he defeated
Leon Spinks in their rematch. But the

903
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:13,599
reality is all the things we've just
mentioned, the setting, the stakes,

904
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:19,480
the upset, the action, uh, the delay, all of it,

905
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:22,199
you know, the fact that the
world could watch via satellite, it just

906
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:27,000
made it to me it's the most
storied fight out there because even of Ali's

907
00:56:27,039 --> 00:56:30,159
other big fights, of which he's
had many, this is the one they

908
00:56:30,199 --> 00:56:34,000
did documentaries about more than any other. This is the one that that became

909
00:56:34,559 --> 00:56:38,000
the biggest famous fight ever, it
seems to me. And it was a

910
00:56:38,119 --> 00:56:42,360
huge upset and it was Ali doing
what nobody thought he could do. We

911
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:44,679
talked about what frances na Gan who
did with theory. Now he didn't win,

912
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:46,960
but people thought Ali was going to
get destroyed, and he won.

913
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:51,960
He did win and tactically There's one
more thing here, and it's interesting too

914
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,440
because Angelo Dundee talked about this forever
where he said, very truthfully, I

915
00:56:57,639 --> 00:57:00,639
was not in on the whole ropodope
thing that was Muhammed's thing during the fight.

916
00:57:00,960 --> 00:57:06,519
And there's even I guess there's some
film or whatever where they could you

917
00:57:06,599 --> 00:57:10,199
could hear Angie saying to him Angelo
Dundee, get off the ropes a couple

918
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,960
of times in the corner, get
off the ropes. But one of the

919
00:57:14,079 --> 00:57:20,559
things that Ali was doing subtly and
tactically is he was grappling Foreman around the

920
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:23,400
head and the neck and wrestling him
and leaning on him. And he did

921
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:28,079
it not just once, not just
five times, he did it fifteen,

922
00:57:28,239 --> 00:57:31,920
twenty twenty five times, trying to
wear him down, wear him down,

923
00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:37,199
punch him out, and then eventually
sprung the big right hand on him out

924
00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:38,239
of one of those exchanges. So
there you go. So what that you

925
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:44,360
just jogged my memory on something years
ago. I was I was with George

926
00:57:44,719 --> 00:57:49,800
and we were doing I was writing
a piece. I was ghost writing a

927
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:54,519
piece for George for a thing about
Angelou Dundee, and I met with George.

928
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:59,320
He had we were in Atlantic City
for an HBO show, and after

929
00:57:59,440 --> 00:58:02,559
he did it is a production meeting
at the fighter meetings for George and I

930
00:58:02,599 --> 00:58:06,159
had schedule time, so we found
we did. We met in a conference

931
00:58:06,239 --> 00:58:08,880
room in the casino in Atlantic City
and we sat for about, I don't

932
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:13,280
know, half an hour forty five
minutes, and we discussed Angela. So

933
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:15,199
I was taking notes and recording this
because I was going to write this piece

934
00:58:15,559 --> 00:58:19,440
as George, you know, as
told George's words, but I'm the one

935
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,199
that's going to write it, you
know, a ghostwriter. So the whole

936
00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:27,480
idea was to write in George's voice, you know what Angelo Dundee meant him

937
00:58:27,519 --> 00:58:30,119
and you know, because Angela trained
him later in his career. And one

938
00:58:30,119 --> 00:58:32,159
of the stories he told me,
which I had not known at that time,

939
00:58:32,239 --> 00:58:37,079
and you just brought it up to
me. He remembered that all through

940
00:58:37,159 --> 00:58:38,719
that fight in the Marumbo and the
Jungle that we're talking about, of which

941
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:43,159
the forty ninth anniversary is on Monday, that the whole fight, he said,

942
00:58:43,239 --> 00:58:46,159
I kept hearing this this voice yelling
at Ali, you know, get

943
00:58:46,199 --> 00:58:49,440
off the ropes, Get off the
ropes. And it was driving me absolutely

944
00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,719
crazy. And so when I made
my comeback and I was going towards fighting

945
00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:55,639
for the title again, I'm like, I want that guy in my quarter

946
00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:00,960
because I want that brilliance and I
don't want him to be against me yelling

947
00:59:00,039 --> 00:59:04,480
the same shit to my opponent to
do that. So he went out.

948
00:59:04,639 --> 00:59:08,840
Because of what happened in Zaire,
he purposely pursued Angelo would be interesting to

949
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:13,639
work his corner and be with him
on his team because of the brilliance that

950
00:59:13,719 --> 00:59:17,679
he did tactically with Ali in doing
that in the fight against him. You

951
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,280
know all those years earlier in Zaire, and uh, that's one of the

952
00:59:22,440 --> 00:59:25,599
one of the most famous fights,
if not the most famous fight in the

953
00:59:25,639 --> 00:59:30,239
history of boxing. All Right,
one more quick take then we're moving on

954
00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:31,960
to one more piece of nostalgia.
Just give me a thirty second answer.

955
00:59:32,119 --> 00:59:36,519
I loved I obtaining you. I'm
giving you my opinion. I love Will

956
00:59:36,599 --> 00:59:40,480
Smith as Muhammad Ali in the Michael
Man you know documentary, going back and

957
00:59:40,519 --> 00:59:45,159
looking, did you like Will Smith
playing Muhammad Ali in that movie, including

958
00:59:45,159 --> 00:59:49,039
in the Rumblin Jungle? What's the
Rayphiel opinion? Quickly? First of all,

959
00:59:49,079 --> 00:59:51,159
that was and it was not a
documentary because it was an act.

960
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,599
It was not an art. It
was not a documentary. But it was

961
00:59:53,880 --> 01:00:02,360
like a recreation of Ali's rise Tuesday, and it actually ends with that fight.

962
01:00:02,480 --> 01:00:05,360
They don't do the thriller in Manila, they don't do the end of

963
01:00:05,400 --> 01:00:07,920
his career, but go ahead.
Will Smith, of course, was brilliant

964
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,840
as Ali. He had the mannerisms
down, he had to look obviously,

965
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:14,639
he had the voice down. He
you know, he got himself in that

966
01:00:14,760 --> 01:00:16,320
kind of physical condition for the fight, so he could, you know,

967
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,360
correctly make himself look like Muhammad Ali
physically. So from that standpoint, he

968
01:00:22,559 --> 01:00:25,239
was great. I didn't care for
the movie because it was done in a

969
01:00:25,360 --> 01:00:30,000
non dramatic way. It was basically
a resuscitation or a recitation rather of Ali

970
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:35,119
in chronological order. There was no
story. Why would I watch that when

971
01:00:35,119 --> 01:00:37,639
I can just go watch the fights
and the real documentaries and things that happened

972
01:00:37,639 --> 01:00:43,159
at that time, the real thing
instead of this two or three hour thing

973
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,119
that was just like less interesting than
the actual fights. The movie. You're

974
01:00:47,119 --> 01:00:52,079
supposed to dramatize things, make them
interesting, make them more entertaining, bring

975
01:00:52,119 --> 01:00:54,320
a little drama, a little pizaz
with whatever your you know, way you

976
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:58,239
shoot it, the music, whatever
it is. And I just never liked

977
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:00,679
that film. I mean it's not
like the worst I ever saw. But

978
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:05,239
there are so many options if you
want to watch a long form thing about

979
01:01:05,320 --> 01:01:08,360
Ali's life for career, I don't
need a Michaelman movie with Will Smith imitating

980
01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:14,400
Ali when there's tons of archival footage
available and numerous documentaries. I could give

981
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:17,039
me the When We Were Kings,
for example, which is about the Rumble

982
01:01:17,039 --> 01:01:21,360
in the Jungle, which is a
documentary that's phenomenal that I think one Oscar

983
01:01:21,400 --> 01:01:23,440
Awards. But that's just about this. But I think, in fairness,

984
01:01:23,519 --> 01:01:27,599
there are a ton of people that
aren't even sports fans, much less boxing

985
01:01:27,639 --> 01:01:30,800
fans that gravitated to the movie because
of Will Smith and about the story of

986
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:35,000
Ali. We are hardcore boxing,
so it's not the same for us.

987
01:01:35,159 --> 01:01:37,440
So I get that. I think
Will Smith. Will Smith did a great

988
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:39,840
job, but I would give him
like a nine and a half I would

989
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:43,679
give him. And he got nominated
for an Academy Award for playing Ali in

990
01:01:43,719 --> 01:01:45,199
that movie, so go back.
That movie's now almost twenty five years old.

991
01:01:45,199 --> 01:01:49,599
But yeah, the movie, the
movie, his performance was obviously Oscar

992
01:01:49,679 --> 01:01:53,079
worthy, but I just didn't I
wasn't care for the movie overall, all

993
01:01:53,159 --> 01:01:57,159
right, you know, I can
watch the real thing, all right.

994
01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:01,519
Twenty five years ago, Tuesday,
Halloween, Halloween. We covered this,

995
01:02:01,639 --> 01:02:05,239
by the way, on the bet
Us Show. You would not come clean

996
01:02:05,320 --> 01:02:07,599
on dressing up for Halloween. We
were talking about I was Evil Caneval with

997
01:02:07,639 --> 01:02:10,920
a bed sheet as a kid,
a football helmet and riding around the bike.

998
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,519
You wouldn't come clean about dressing up
for Halloween. Anyway. It's Halloween,

999
01:02:14,559 --> 01:02:17,039
everybody, Tuesday. I did dress
up for Halloween. I just don't

1000
01:02:17,079 --> 01:02:22,760
remember what the costumes were. I
really don't. You didn't as the heavyweight

1001
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,360
champion of the world with boxing gloves
on and go doors brow. It didn't

1002
01:02:25,360 --> 01:02:29,159
happen. Uh So, if you
what you want, maybe maybe even I'll

1003
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:30,159
do is I'll call my mom and
I'll have I'll have her to look in

1004
01:02:30,199 --> 01:02:34,559
the family album and see what my
photos look like. Fair enough on that

1005
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:39,559
Halloween is Tuesday. Halloween is also
the twenty fifth anniversary of Rayfield Ringside for

1006
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:45,800
a Prince Nassim Hahmed and Wayne McCullough. And why is this prominent and special

1007
01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,840
for you twenty five years ago?
The fact that this is twenty five years

1008
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,199
ago is sick that I'm at a
point now in my life where I can

1009
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,920
say I was ringside for fights that
were twenty five years ago. I know

1010
01:02:55,239 --> 01:02:59,920
that closed my fucking mind. So
the reason why this was a big deal

1011
01:03:00,199 --> 01:03:01,079
is Okay, number one, A
Mad's a Hall of Famer, and I

1012
01:03:01,119 --> 01:03:05,320
mean just in terms of his star
power and being featherweight world champion. I

1013
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,039
mean just on that alone, it
was memorable for me being there. But

1014
01:03:07,199 --> 01:03:10,719
it did and it wasn't like this
particularly great fightle though he hit Wayne McCullough

1015
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:14,400
with everything, with the kitchen sink, as they say, and Wayne mcculluugh

1016
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:17,440
has one of the greatest chins in
the history of boxing in that ali level

1017
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,880
who just never wavered and went the
distance and lost a decision. But it

1018
01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:27,559
meant a lot to me because that
was a time period in October of nineteen

1019
01:03:27,639 --> 01:03:31,559
ninety eight. I was in a
four month time frame from August of ninety

1020
01:03:31,559 --> 01:03:35,880
eight till the end of the year
of ninety end of December, where I

1021
01:03:36,000 --> 01:03:38,159
had left my newspaper that I worked
that full time in Bingham to New York

1022
01:03:38,480 --> 01:03:44,119
and I relocated to the Washington,
DC area to work at USA Today in

1023
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:49,320
a program that was called a loan
because my newspaper in Binghamton was owned by

1024
01:03:49,360 --> 01:03:52,559
the same company that owned USA Today, and they had a program where they

1025
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:58,400
would take either very experienced, kind
of older journalists that were looking to maybe

1026
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,719
recharge their batteries or you know,
pick up a little training and sort of

1027
01:04:01,039 --> 01:04:03,880
you know, do something different for
a change, and they would send them

1028
01:04:03,880 --> 01:04:06,639
to this loan program. And the
other folks that they sent to the loan

1029
01:04:06,719 --> 01:04:12,000
program were people within the company that
I identified as up and coming journalists that

1030
01:04:12,159 --> 01:04:15,559
had a chance to go do something, you know, more significant in their

1031
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:18,960
career. I was fortunate when I
applied when my newspaper in Dinghamton came up

1032
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:23,920
as one of the papers in the
company GNNET that was supposed to give somebody

1033
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:27,199
to this program for four months.
I was selected, and I left New

1034
01:04:27,280 --> 01:04:29,360
York and I went and I lived
in the Washington, DC air where I

1035
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:31,480
still live today, and I worked
at USA Today for four months. And

1036
01:04:31,519 --> 01:04:34,480
I remember in the first meeting that
they called all of us in. It

1037
01:04:34,599 --> 01:04:38,599
was myself and like eleven other people
in my group that worked in all different

1038
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:41,519
departments of the paper, and they
told us flat out, we're going to

1039
01:04:41,599 --> 01:04:44,719
work you to death, basically.
But if there's things that you want to

1040
01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:46,840
do besides what we've assigned you to
do. Let us know. And if

1041
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:49,280
you're completing your assignments and you're doing
a good job, you know, we

1042
01:04:49,400 --> 01:04:54,320
will definitely let you and we want
you to expand your horizon and go do

1043
01:04:54,400 --> 01:04:57,400
other things. So I was assigned
at the time when I got there,

1044
01:04:57,480 --> 01:05:00,320
this is at the end of the
summer into the fall. I was assigned

1045
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:02,320
to the baseball desk. And what
was happening in nineteen ninety eight. It

1046
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:05,920
was the Great home run Chase between
Mark maguire and Sammy Sosa. So my

1047
01:05:06,119 --> 01:05:10,840
job on a nightly basis, on
a daily basis, was reporting and writing

1048
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,400
about things related to the home run
chase on an every day like as a

1049
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:17,320
matter of fact, you know,
that consumed my life for those couple of

1050
01:05:17,360 --> 01:05:20,000
months. But I was getting everything
done. I was getting good reviews from

1051
01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:24,760
my bosses and my editors. But
I wanted to do boxing also, so

1052
01:05:24,880 --> 01:05:27,159
I had suggested a couple of stories
to them. They let me do it.

1053
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:32,079
I knew that they liked my work
when they had called me in and

1054
01:05:32,159 --> 01:05:36,280
asked me if I would write a
particular story on a boxing event when it

1055
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,880
happened. I was like, okay, that's cool. I came in on

1056
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:44,599
my day off to work on it. In any event, when Ahmed was

1057
01:05:44,599 --> 01:05:45,960
fighting McCullough was taking place in Atlantic
City, so I thought, okay,

1058
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:48,360
that seems like a cool thing.
I asked them if I could go cover

1059
01:05:48,440 --> 01:05:51,000
it, and they were like,
yeah, go cover it. So I

1060
01:05:51,159 --> 01:05:56,679
went to Atlantic City and I caused
my first HBO fight. It was it

1061
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,559
was only the third boxing event I
had ever covered fore action Ever, I

1062
01:06:00,599 --> 01:06:02,280
had covered the your first card I
ever covered. A couple of years earlier,

1063
01:06:02,559 --> 01:06:06,159
I had covered a Mark Johnson world
title fight in Oneida, New York

1064
01:06:06,159 --> 01:06:09,960
at the Turning Stone when I worked
in Binghamton. I convinced my boss to

1065
01:06:10,039 --> 01:06:12,480
let me go because it was a
day trip for all the people that lived

1066
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:15,119
in our community and it was their
first ever boxing event. And now here

1067
01:06:15,159 --> 01:06:18,039
comes Haamed. This is now my
first time at a big fight. Really

1068
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:23,280
because it's HBO, it's Atlantic City, I and so I have so many

1069
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:27,800
vivid memories of that entire three year, three days I guess that I spent

1070
01:06:27,840 --> 01:06:30,239
in Atlantic City. I met many
of the HBO people I met, you

1071
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,960
know, many of the people involved
PR people and stuff. Some of the

1072
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,280
people I'm still friendly with and deal
with on a regular basis to this day.

1073
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:41,400
And so it was a very meaningful
fight. It was very exciting to

1074
01:06:41,440 --> 01:06:44,400
be there. Ahmed won the fight. You had another world title fight in

1075
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:48,360
the junior featherweight division in the co
feature the excellent South African champion Vianni Bungu

1076
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:53,880
with with with a significant victory against
Daniel Romero. So yeah, when I

1077
01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:57,639
hear that that's twenty five years ago, it's absolutely mind boggling to me.

1078
01:06:58,480 --> 01:07:00,400
And of course, if you ever
go back and watch watch any of that

1079
01:07:00,480 --> 01:07:05,840
particular fight, you'll see the legendary
ring walk that the Prince made that night

1080
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:13,159
where he came in in a graveyard
mock graveyard Jackson's Thriller, which was a

1081
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,840
wild and that was taking place,
I think, if I remember correctly,

1082
01:07:15,039 --> 01:07:18,800
pretty much right behind me. So
it was, you know, pretty legendary.

1083
01:07:19,199 --> 01:07:21,760
And also on that card, it
wasn't on HBO, but I got

1084
01:07:21,800 --> 01:07:26,760
a chance in person for the first
time to watch Marco Antonio Barrera. He

1085
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,800
won the vacant WBO one twenty two
pound title off television. It was on

1086
01:07:30,960 --> 01:07:33,760
internationally in the UK and other places
against Richie went in in an early knockout

1087
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:38,480
and oh, by the way,
a young man from a Manchester, England

1088
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,480
who was eight and oh that night
going in the ring very early in his

1089
01:07:41,519 --> 01:07:44,639
career, who knew what would become
of him. But Ricky hadn't won on

1090
01:07:44,719 --> 01:07:49,440
that card in So you know again
it may not be the biggest deal for

1091
01:07:49,559 --> 01:07:54,039
most people. In my personal journey
in this sport and covering it, it

1092
01:07:54,159 --> 01:07:57,760
is among the most meaningful events I've
ever covered. And like I said to

1093
01:07:57,840 --> 01:08:00,000
my wife when I told her we
were going to be talking about it,

1094
01:08:00,440 --> 01:08:02,039
and I couldn't believe it's been twenty
five years. I said, I remember

1095
01:08:02,119 --> 01:08:06,400
more from those three or four days
twenty five years ago than I remember what

1096
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:11,599
we did yesterday. That's crazy.
It made that big of an impression on

1097
01:08:11,840 --> 01:08:15,640
you and shape to be. But
that's a great program, and that's what

1098
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,840
internships. It doesn't exist anymore.
Mentoring programs are for what do you want

1099
01:08:20,880 --> 01:08:25,560
to be? And a young Rayfield
didn't want to write about baseball and home

1100
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:28,119
run chases. He wanted to write
about boxing. No, I listened,

1101
01:08:28,199 --> 01:08:31,079
the rest is the rest. I
know you liked baseball, but your passion

1102
01:08:31,199 --> 01:08:35,359
is boxing, and this helped you
get on the road to be what you

1103
01:08:35,439 --> 01:08:40,159
became. I was twenty eight years
old and I had a full time sports

1104
01:08:40,199 --> 01:08:45,680
trading job in Binghamton and enjoyed that
very much, but aspired to a larger

1105
01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:49,960
audience, to a bigger deal beat
as opposed to covering minor league baseball and

1106
01:08:50,119 --> 01:08:55,720
college sports and things along those lines. I did this thing in USA pay

1107
01:08:55,760 --> 01:08:58,199
for the four months. I wrote
a handful of boxing stories while I was

1108
01:08:58,239 --> 01:09:00,560
there, and when I left it
went home to back to my gig at

1109
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,600
at Bingington. When the four months
were over, I stayed in touch with

1110
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:06,640
my editors at the USA Today.
I wanted I didn't you know, I

1111
01:09:06,760 --> 01:09:10,159
wanted to go back there and work
desperately. And you know what, like

1112
01:09:10,239 --> 01:09:13,720
a year later, it paid off
because they called me and they hired me

1113
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:15,920
to be their boxing writer. So
that's why that's an important event for my

1114
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:19,399
life, no question. All right, we love all of this, some

1115
01:09:19,520 --> 01:09:24,319
great stuff with the recaps, the
news, the nostalgia. As always,

1116
01:09:25,159 --> 01:09:29,239
you know what we're done for October
basically this is it. We'll be back

1117
01:09:29,359 --> 01:09:32,840
in November with the big fight weekend
preview coming this weekend down the stretch for

1118
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:38,880
the final two months of the year. Great stuff here on this and anything

1119
01:09:38,920 --> 01:09:41,359
else. I think we're good.
I think we're done here on this.

1120
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:43,520
Are we good? Yeah, we're
good. I mean we got some we

1121
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:45,079
got some solid fights coming up that
we're going to be talking about, obviously,

1122
01:09:45,079 --> 01:09:47,000
and I'm looking forward to that.
We got to you know, I

1123
01:09:47,039 --> 01:09:49,680
think the biggest fights of the year
are pretty much in the books at this

1124
01:09:49,760 --> 01:09:53,640
point, but we still got some
good action coming up that we'll talk about

1125
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:57,159
it. I'm looking forward to seeing
Borgina for example. We preview going into

1126
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,760
the weekend Thursday night and the Friday. We recap coming off the weekend,

1127
01:09:59,800 --> 01:10:01,720
which what you're listening to right now, Sunday night into Monday, and again

1128
01:10:02,239 --> 01:10:05,039
us great guests as well coming up
that we'll have on the podcast feed.

1129
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:08,880
Thank you to the audience, Rate
US, Review, US, Apple Podcasts,

1130
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,520
Freaker, Spotify, wherever you get
your podcasts. Dan, have a

1131
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:13,960
great week. Thank you, my
friend, you too, my friend.

1132
01:10:14,000 --> 01:10:15,640
I will talk to you all right. Happy Halloween, all the trick or

1133
01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:18,880
treaters, everybody being safe on Tuesday
as well with Halloween coming here in the

1134
01:10:19,039 --> 01:10:21,880
US. For now, we are
good. You've been listening to the fight

1135
01:10:23,000 --> 01:10:24,880
freaks unpe Recap podcast