WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.400 Uh, today's episode is special. I know right, I'm sitting here with 2 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:11.320 my good friend Kimberly Anderson. For those of you do who don't know her, 3 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:15.000 Where the fuck have you been? Where the fuck have you been? 4 00:00:15.679 --> 00:00:23.239 Probably escaping Mormonism? Good? Good, congratulations if that's absolutely the reason we 5 00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:28.199 are recording together today, A Kimberly is awesome. B I just got back 6 00:00:28.320 --> 00:00:33.200 from my mom's Mormon funeral, and I thought it would be a good idea 7 00:00:33.280 --> 00:00:39.600 to unpack this with an actual professional therapist because there's some ship, and also 8 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:46.119 with an ex Mormon because check and check. So yeah, that's the intro 9 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:49.000 let's I guess we do a commercial. No, I don't know. Mary's 10 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.840 not here to tell me where every you know when, what house. We're 11 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.679 just gonna fucking wing it, wing it so it might be like a three 12 00:00:54.719 --> 00:01:00.439 hour long podcast. I know I'm fucking with you anyway. Commercial back, 13 00:01:06.239 --> 00:01:11.840 Kimberly. Before we get started, I tell tell the listeners why you are 14 00:01:12.040 --> 00:01:18.439 the best to be in this episode. Well, a thank you for even 15 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:23.640 considering that that would be the case. I don't like superlatives. I will 16 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:26.120 say though, that I'm probably qualified to talk to you, mainly because I'm 17 00:01:26.159 --> 00:01:33.359 your friend, that's true. Yeah, and we have a common history both 18 00:01:33.439 --> 00:01:41.439 in escaping and post mormonism, right right. I also am a trained therapist. 19 00:01:42.079 --> 00:01:46.959 So let's make one thing very clear. This is not therapy. No, 20 00:01:46.959 --> 00:01:51.120 no, this is not a therapy session. I am paying Kimberly. 21 00:01:51.760 --> 00:01:57.239 So what it is, though, is you talking to a therapeutically informed friend. 22 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.239 So you are not my client or you've never been my client? That 23 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:04.120 will you ever be my client? Because that would be unethical. You know 24 00:02:04.200 --> 00:02:07.640 too much. I don't know, way too much, way, way too 25 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:14.080 much. However, many audience members of LDL are my either current client or 26 00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.439 have been a past client. Eh. So if that is you, then 27 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:23.919 I will say hello and welcome. Oh that's awesome, that's awesome. Oh 28 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:28.840 wow, Where to begin? I think let's start at the very big Is 29 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:32.520 there gonna be a lot of singing in this episode? That's from a musical, 30 00:02:32.560 --> 00:02:37.840 isn't it? Yes, it's just the one The Hills Are Alive? 31 00:02:38.120 --> 00:02:40.520 It sounded okay, okay, yeah, great, start at the beginning. 32 00:02:40.560 --> 00:02:43.919 What do you want? I mean? Okay, so I know I posted 33 00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:51.520 on some social media pages about the initial happenings, and I'll just go over 34 00:02:51.560 --> 00:02:54.919 that again really quickly, because it kind of leads into it. So I 35 00:02:54.919 --> 00:03:00.960 got the phone call that my mom probably has had a few weeks left from 36 00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:05.520 the hospice nurse. And there's a lot going on in my life at the 37 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:09.439 time, but I felt like I should probably get out there. So I 38 00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:15.680 bought a one way ticket and I went to Utah on a Monday morning. 39 00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:21.280 I got there Monday afternoon. I had a recording with me of all my 40 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:28.080 kids reading books to my mom, like all like the Golden Books, the 41 00:03:28.240 --> 00:03:30.479 Little Red hen Poppy Little Puppy. Yeah, that was my favorite with her. 42 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:34.319 She reused to read that to me anyway, all of my kids just 43 00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:38.319 reading books to her for like two hours of book reading. I've recorded it 44 00:03:38.400 --> 00:03:43.080 over multiple days. But yeah, so I had that. My mom was 45 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.280 already I don't want to say comatose, but she wasn't responsive at all. 46 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.120 She hadn't been drinking for two days by then, which is definitely a sign 47 00:03:52.159 --> 00:03:54.319 that there's not a lot left, like your body will use up the rest 48 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:58.560 of your moisture down. She's shutting down, for sure. I mean, 49 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:04.360 that's that's what happened. So I spent the rest of the day like hours 50 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:10.479 with my kid's voices playing next to my mom's ear because from what I've been 51 00:04:10.479 --> 00:04:13.919 told, the hearing is the last thing to go as you're dying. And 52 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:17.199 holding her hand, you know, I did some work on my laptop as 53 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:20.639 well, and then taking like a sponge with a little bit of water and 54 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:25.519 you know, putting it on her tongue, uh, coating her mouth with 55 00:04:25.560 --> 00:04:27.720 this, I want to say, lemon stuff. That just helps it not 56 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.439 feel so dried out because she was, you know, dying of thirst, 57 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.319 I guess, and her body was shutting down. So I spent that time 58 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:38.480 with her. It was quiet, it was nice. All of my brothers 59 00:04:38.720 --> 00:04:42.279 were there. They ended up coming so and my dad. So it was 60 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:46.079 myself, Mike, Mark, my dad, and then my oldest dick face 61 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:48.720 brother that we all hate, David, but we pretended to be okay with 62 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:51.879 him. You know. There were no fighting or anything anyway that happened. 63 00:04:51.920 --> 00:04:58.000 And then the very next morning early my mom passed. So I know people 64 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.639 say sometimes people I sometimes people who are dying, once they have what they 65 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.439 want, like their family together, you know, they go to someone's wedding 66 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.920 or whatever it is, that they kind of let go and I you know, 67 00:05:08.000 --> 00:05:10.920 I like to tell myself that's what happened. I like to tell myself 68 00:05:10.959 --> 00:05:15.720 that my mom finally got to make a choice for herself. H I like 69 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:21.959 that. Yeah, that's in my heart, that's what happened. So after 70 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:28.279 she passed, then we had to start making arrangements. If anyone knows my 71 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:30.639 brother Mark, I know who does listen, But he was a fucking badass. 72 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:34.680 He took care of everything. A little bit about Mike and Mark. 73 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:42.079 They are Mormon. They're very Mormon. They're very rulsy and obedient, but 74 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:46.839 also very nice. So much on point right, right right. We were 75 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.040 staying at my aunt's house and we were kind of talking about what happens next. 76 00:05:50.360 --> 00:05:56.000 I've never been part of a funeral before, like an active participant. 77 00:05:56.079 --> 00:05:59.199 Correct, okay, correct, So no one close to you has died then, 78 00:05:59.240 --> 00:06:02.839 really my grandma, but I was really young. You'd have been a 79 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:05.600 spectator exactly, exactly, no one that I was a part of them, 80 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:10.600 So, I you know, I don't know how that works. Talking to 81 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:13.879 my aunt though, she was telling me, okay, so we need to 82 00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:17.680 dress the body, right, which means you go to the mortuary where they 83 00:06:17.720 --> 00:06:24.399 have your mom's body and you you dress her in clothing ready to be buried 84 00:06:24.399 --> 00:06:27.560 in had the body been washed already? I'm sure the mortician had already done 85 00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:30.079 that, Oh for sure, because I mean we couldn't get it back out 86 00:06:30.079 --> 00:06:33.480 there for the funeral for like three weeks, so they had like keep her 87 00:06:33.519 --> 00:06:36.079 on eyes and pumper full of stuff. Sorry if I feel a little, 88 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:41.279 if I say a little, I mean it's the truth and also trigger warning 89 00:06:41.360 --> 00:06:46.439 or content warning for death dying and you know, honest talk about how to 90 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:50.480 prepare a body for burial. Absolutely, yes, So who did her hair? 91 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:54.879 The people did, which was the the mortuary people, and they did 92 00:06:54.920 --> 00:07:00.360 a great job. Interesting, sometimes the person that's going to die finds a 93 00:07:00.360 --> 00:07:02.639 friend or their hairdresser and asks them to come in and do their hair for 94 00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.959 the last time that the mortuary took care of the makeup and hair. Then 95 00:07:08.120 --> 00:07:12.040 they did they did. Look well, yeah, it was amazing. I'll 96 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:14.120 get to that, but yeah, no, you're good. You're good. 97 00:07:14.160 --> 00:07:15.240 I'm glad that you brought that up because it'll like get my mind going. 98 00:07:15.680 --> 00:07:17.959 So talking to my aunt, she saying, well, we need to go 99 00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:21.959 dress the body, and then she one of my brothers asks, like, 100 00:07:23.120 --> 00:07:26.639 is Shelley allowed to be there. I didn't even thought about that, because 101 00:07:26.839 --> 00:07:31.600 you dress a Mormon body in the Mormon ugly ceremonial temple clothes. If they've 102 00:07:31.639 --> 00:07:35.639 been through the temple endowment, correct, if they're worthy, Let's let's keep 103 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:38.920 that wording. That's right. So if they've been to the temple and they 104 00:07:39.000 --> 00:07:43.240 died worthy and they paid all their tithing, that would make that makes you 105 00:07:43.279 --> 00:07:46.600 worthy. Yes, I know, I know, I know. You gotta 106 00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:47.759 you got to pay all the way up to the end to get in, 107 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:54.600 which reminds me my senile dad. He's getting so bad he can't remember jack 108 00:07:54.680 --> 00:07:59.279 shit, but he still calls my brother who's in charge of the estate, 109 00:07:59.759 --> 00:08:03.439 and says, are you sure I'm up to date on my tithing? It's 110 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.480 like, Dad, you're damn near dead. You think you've paid enough already. 111 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.879 And by the way, you're paying tithing on like your retirement, which 112 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:18.199 means you've already paid taxes on it, or pay tithing on it. You 113 00:08:18.199 --> 00:08:20.319 pay tithing on it when you got paid double tithed. Yes, I can't 114 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:24.319 imagine that. Saint Peter's up at the pearly gates, you know, with 115 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.240 logging into your account and saying you know your ten cents short? Sorry, 116 00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:31.199 do you have ten cents on you? You're a little ten cents short. 117 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:35.679 Anybody in lying got a dime they could lend this poor person. I mean, 118 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:37.759 I guess when you're a spirit, you can't carry shit until you're resurrected. 119 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:43.159 It doesn't go with you as they can't take it with you, So 120 00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.840 then no one would be able to Maybe that person could inspire someone down below 121 00:08:48.120 --> 00:08:54.000 to pay some tithing for of course a spiritual visit visitation that would be a 122 00:08:54.039 --> 00:09:00.120 tender mercy and it'd be fucked up, so you can really and not true. 123 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:03.960 The reason it would be fucked that would be is it's not that's awesome. 124 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.720 Uh anyway, So when my when when my brother mentioned that, and 125 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:09.879 my aunt was like, oh, I I don't I don't know, you 126 00:09:09.919 --> 00:09:13.360 know. And I was thinking, I don't know either. I didn't care 127 00:09:13.399 --> 00:09:16.519 at the time, but I just I didn't want to I didn't want to 128 00:09:16.519 --> 00:09:22.000 address it whatever because nobody knew. So a few hours later we go to 129 00:09:22.000 --> 00:09:28.759 the mortuary and we're talking, did your brothers have access to the online version 130 00:09:28.759 --> 00:09:33.879 of the Church Handbook to look at the preparation for deceased bodies. That's the 131 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:35.879 sure everyone does. I actually looked it up too, And why did you 132 00:09:35.879 --> 00:09:41.480 find out? Well, I looked it up after the fact because I literally 133 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.879 didn't care at the time. I didn't want to fight about it and my 134 00:09:43.000 --> 00:09:46.240 but in my mind I was like, Okay, whatever, this isn't on. 135 00:09:46.320 --> 00:09:48.960 This is a no issue, I you know. So nothing was said 136 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.919 to me, uh in that moment. Then we went to the mortuary to 137 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:56.480 talk to the funeral director, like we got to make all these plans. 138 00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:00.519 And as we're sitting there, I'm sitting next to Mike and Market. I 139 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.000 love Mike and Mark. I love them, especially Mark. We are so 140 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.600 close. He just I don't know. He's my favorite brother. And I 141 00:10:07.639 --> 00:10:11.759 wish he wasn't a Mormon, a Rusi Mormon, because it would just be 142 00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:16.960 better. Does he drink coke? Yeah, so he's not that. But 143 00:10:16.279 --> 00:10:18.679 but he's like, if the prophet says we do it, that's what it 144 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.639 is. Can I rewind the conversation yet? Five minutes? Yeah, your 145 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:28.480 mom passed? Yes? Was she alone? Yes? That's right. I 146 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.799 should go back to her passing. Yeah, next to you is the emotions 147 00:10:31.799 --> 00:10:39.840 pillar from my office. Pick that up? Her dying alone? When you 148 00:10:39.919 --> 00:10:43.279 got that news that she had passed. What feelings were you holding in your 149 00:10:43.279 --> 00:10:50.000 body? God? The first feeling because my my my brother Mike came and 150 00:10:50.080 --> 00:10:52.919 knocked on my bedroom door. Were all stick at my aunt's house and it 151 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:54.960 was five in the morning. Knocks on the door and he's like, just 152 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:01.159 so you know, Mom just passed away. I was shocked because they'd said 153 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:03.679 two to three weeks. First I was shocked, Then I was relieved, 154 00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:13.759 and then I was overwhelmed by now what. I was sad, but not 155 00:11:13.879 --> 00:11:16.559 that sad. The sadness came later. I wasn't that sad. I was 156 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.720 grateful that I had been there, and I was like, holy shit, 157 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.879 what if I hadn't come out yesterday, Because it was a you were in 158 00:11:24.879 --> 00:11:26.320 a position where you may or may not have gone. Absolutely. I had 159 00:11:26.360 --> 00:11:31.039 so much shit going on. I was juggling a lot, and I was 160 00:11:31.080 --> 00:11:33.879 debating for an entire day. I was debating, and then finally I was 161 00:11:33.919 --> 00:11:37.480 like, fuck it, I'm just gonna go whatever. So yeah, there 162 00:11:37.519 --> 00:11:39.879 was that Oh my god, I'm so glad I went. There was there 163 00:11:39.960 --> 00:11:43.600 was closeness I felt with my two brothers that were there because I knew we 164 00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:48.519 were going through the same thing, like, now, what this is like 165 00:11:48.600 --> 00:11:50.639 mom died? You know, do you feel you had been grieving your mom's 166 00:11:50.799 --> 00:12:00.799 passing before she passed? Yes, uh hmm, grieving versus disconnecting. Right, 167 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:09.399 She's been so kind of out of it for so long that the emotional 168 00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:13.840 disconnect. I let that happen. Did I cause it to happen? I 169 00:12:13.879 --> 00:12:16.480 don't know. It felt more comfortable because it was kind of like, she's 170 00:12:16.559 --> 00:12:20.679 not really behaving like my mom anymore, for better or worse whatever. There 171 00:12:20.720 --> 00:12:26.039 were moments of lucidity with her. But you know what's strange. I still 172 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:31.360 it's like I knew she was dying, but I didn't believe she was dying, 173 00:12:31.039 --> 00:12:35.000 which is why it came as a shock when she did die, because 174 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.759 I don't know if my brain had accepted that, yeah, she's gonna die. 175 00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:41.159 I think in my brain she was just going to be in the memory 176 00:12:41.159 --> 00:12:45.080 care unit forever and I'd go see her every couple months, and which obviously 177 00:12:45.360 --> 00:12:46.600 wasn't going to happen. But that I think that's where my brain was, 178 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:52.240 Okay, it was okay thinking that was what was happening. Yeah, it's 179 00:12:52.240 --> 00:12:56.240 strange relationship with my mom. We were never really close. But she's like 180 00:12:56.279 --> 00:13:01.799 the kindest, sweetest person in the world who loved everyone, and everyone loved 181 00:13:01.799 --> 00:13:05.000 her, so it's not like we weren't close. And also she was a 182 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.559 bitch, and it's like, eh, well you know, bye bye. 183 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.600 So there's a version of you that's glad that she's gone, relieved that she's 184 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:15.720 gone. Yes, And there's a version of her that you possibly miss, 185 00:13:16.080 --> 00:13:20.320 yes, version of her that I miss, and me wanting her gone. 186 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.559 That sounds horrible, but she was miserable. She was bedridden, she had 187 00:13:24.600 --> 00:13:28.600 bedswords, She couldn't do anything for herself. She would scream out in pain 188 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:33.000 a lot. It was not good. She needed to die. She looked 189 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.960 dead for a good couple of weeks. Because we have a camera in there 190 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:43.679 to monitor my fucking asshole oldest brother David and make sure he's not saying inappropriate 191 00:13:43.679 --> 00:13:46.480 things, which he did. Is like, Mom, they won't let me 192 00:13:46.519 --> 00:13:50.360 feed you. I'm so sorry. I wanted you to have a stomach tube 193 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.919 so you could be with us for six more months and maintain these relationships. 194 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:58.279 But they won't let me. Mark and Mike and Shelley won't let me. 195 00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:01.559 He's such a Oh I could do four podcasts on that motherfucker. Seriously. 196 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:07.679 So the morning that she died, got the phone call, so Mike and 197 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:11.639 Mark and I are like, Okay, I guess we need to go see 198 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:13.960 her. Mike called back the lady that called and said, please don't take 199 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.120 her body yet, let us all get there and spend some time. So 200 00:14:18.799 --> 00:14:22.399 we went. My dick face brother David was already there, but he was 201 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.399 up with my dad. He had already stopped and visited my mom. I 202 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:28.360 think because there was I don't know he said, he said he did. 203 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:35.200 He was upstairs with my dad and Mark and Mike and I just sat with 204 00:14:35.240 --> 00:14:41.480 my mom, held her hand, gave her a kiss. She looked good. 205 00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:45.039 When i'd seen her the day before, she just had her mouth open, 206 00:14:45.360 --> 00:14:48.679 you know, trying to breathe. But after she passed, you know, 207 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:54.480 the hospice nurse comes in and make sure she's gone, kind of puts 208 00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:58.519 some makeup on the face, got her mouth closed. That sounds really like 209 00:14:58.600 --> 00:15:03.399 that's pretty medical, but yeah, she looked asleep. So we went upstairs. 210 00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:05.639 David was up there. He was already the room with my dad, 211 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:07.440 and I was thinking, oh, I fucking hope he didn't tell him already. 212 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:11.320 We do not want David telling anyone anything. Thankfully he had not, 213 00:15:13.840 --> 00:15:20.480 so I took the lead on telling him because I think of all my brothers, 214 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.879 I'm the one who's most don't. I don't know. I just felt 215 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.240 like I should. I don't know why. I just sat next to him 216 00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:31.519 and I told him and told him he had nothing to worry about. We're 217 00:15:31.559 --> 00:15:33.840 taking care of the funeral, because what I know is my dad worries about 218 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:39.000 everything, every little thing. And so I was like, everything's taken care 219 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.200 of. Would you like to go down to see her? And so we 220 00:15:43.240 --> 00:15:48.879 took him down to see her, and my dad is just so kind of 221 00:15:48.279 --> 00:15:52.840 far gone. He just sat there and held her hand with kind of a 222 00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:56.879 blank stare, and it was it was sad, you know. He took 223 00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:06.360 her her wedding ring off gave it to me, which was powerful. Yeah, 224 00:16:06.399 --> 00:16:11.559 I have that ring. There's a diamond and a wedding band, and 225 00:16:11.600 --> 00:16:17.320 I'm going to get a nice sturdy chain necklace to put the wedding band on 226 00:16:17.600 --> 00:16:22.559 to where and keep the diamonds somewhere else. I don't know. I've processed 227 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:23.960 that all the way. What I'm going to do, so anyway, he 228 00:16:25.000 --> 00:16:29.120 sat there there with her for a while. Again, that was sad. 229 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.399 It was just sad to see my dad, even though I do have I 230 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.120 mean, everyone who listens knows I have issues with my dad. There's been 231 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:40.440 things. But still, no matter how I thought he did or didn't treat 232 00:16:40.480 --> 00:16:44.120 my mom, in this moment, my mom was gone and he was sad, 233 00:16:44.519 --> 00:16:48.639 and that made me sad. So then we went to the whole going 234 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:51.799 back to my aunt's house and finding out that maybe I'm not allowed to do 235 00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:53.879 the thing. And now we're at the funeral home and we're planning the funeral, 236 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:57.879 and my brother Mark, who I love the most, turned to me 237 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:00.559 and he says, Shelley, listen, and this is that this is I 238 00:17:00.600 --> 00:17:03.599 don't this has nothing to do with you. I'm sorry I have to bring 239 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:07.640 this up. And they asked the funeral director. He's like, my sister 240 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.559 is not temple endowed. What are the rules as far as her being able 241 00:17:11.559 --> 00:17:17.119 to dress the body? And I think this The initial reaction was I was 242 00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:18.960 hurt that he would ask that, but then I understood why he would ask 243 00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:22.079 that. But then I was mad that that was even a thing that needed 244 00:17:22.119 --> 00:17:26.640 to be asked, and I had to remind myself this is not about Mark 245 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:29.519 and Mike. This is about the cult and the brainwashing. Mark and Mike 246 00:17:29.559 --> 00:17:32.160 are good people. Well, it's interesting to think about this. For decades, 247 00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:36.279 the temple clothing, the ceremonial clothing, the robes, sash, the 248 00:17:36.319 --> 00:17:40.519 apron, the whole deal of the slippers, you know, the hat, 249 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:45.200 the bonnet was all very tightly guarded what it looked like, what are represented. 250 00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.039 And then the Internet happened and all those things were leaked and the world 251 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.960 could see what they were. And then the church actually had a big giant 252 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:57.359 press release and showed the world what they were. So let's not forget that 253 00:17:57.400 --> 00:18:00.839 I have been through the temple. Well you not, notwithstanding the rest of 254 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:04.079 the world knows what they look like. It's no secret that they're worn, 255 00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:07.799 and it's no secret what they look like. So for you to not be 256 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:14.359 there, you're not going to the temple, you're not engaging in the complex 257 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:18.839 handshaking, you're not learning any of the health in the naval bullshit. You're 258 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:27.960 just there to put clothing on a person. Cause playing a ceremonial Jewish temple 259 00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:36.559 whatever the fuck copied Jewish. Yeah, so the idea that you're seeing things 260 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:40.480 that you're not supposed to see would be null and void. It was a 261 00:18:40.519 --> 00:18:44.319 moot point. You'd already seen them, you already knew what they were. 262 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.799 The Church has released had information to the world. So I'm very curious, 263 00:18:48.839 --> 00:18:52.079 Actually, what was the hang up with you being there or how did it 264 00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:56.599 resolve? The hang up was it's in the handbook that I shouldn't have and 265 00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:00.519 the handbook rules all depending on your bishop. Of course, it's bishop roulette 266 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:04.400 every time and again and again, again and again. When Mark brought that 267 00:19:04.599 --> 00:19:08.039 up, the funeral director said, you know, I'm I'm not positive on 268 00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.359 that. You're gonna need to check with the bishop. And I just I 269 00:19:11.440 --> 00:19:15.599 stopped everything. I said, listen, Mike and Mark, no offense. 270 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:21.079 This is not about you at all at all, but this is non negotiable 271 00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.400 to me. I will be there. And you know, Mark said, 272 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:27.000 well, you you know mom was very devout Mormon and we just want to 273 00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:32.400 respect her wishes. And I said, Mom would want me there. Mom 274 00:19:32.400 --> 00:19:36.759 would want me there. Okay, end of discussion. Let's move on, 275 00:19:37.000 --> 00:19:40.759 and my brothers just stopped and we moved on. Good for them for honoring 276 00:19:40.799 --> 00:19:44.720 that. Good for you for you know, making that decision, that holding 277 00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:48.319 that boundary. Yeah, and I've been this super laid back as far as 278 00:19:48.519 --> 00:19:52.640 things went with her dying and all that, but when this hit, it 279 00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:53.119 was like, uh, nope, no, no, no, no, 280 00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:56.599 no boundary. I think Mark and Mike were like, oh shit, Shelley's 281 00:19:56.640 --> 00:20:00.839 mad. Let's let's let's leave this be. So you met or were you 282 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:07.720 firm? I was firm inside. I was fuming, like this fucking cult. 283 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.599 And my brothers, who are wonderful, feel like they have to ask 284 00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:18.400 someone if their sister is allowed to spend moments with their mom. This is 285 00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:22.319 the deference to authority, This is the difference of the patriarchal order. Totally 286 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:27.480 so fucked up, so fucked up. So moving on, I did go 287 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:33.319 with to dress my mom. I went with my two sister in laws and 288 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:37.559 my two aunts. So not even the men went no, but the men 289 00:20:37.599 --> 00:20:40.880 wanted to keep you out. They're like, we're not going to do it, 290 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:44.279 but you shouldn't because you're not worthy it, right, So fucked up. 291 00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.039 God, it's so fucked up just saying it out loud again and hearing 292 00:20:48.079 --> 00:20:56.519 your response, so fucked up. So I went and my mom looked great. 293 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.000 She was dressed in a temple gown, not all the ceremonial clothing. 294 00:21:00.480 --> 00:21:03.440 And yeah, I've heard that some people have to dress them from like nude. 295 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:10.279 That would be different. So we get there and I'm there with my 296 00:21:10.599 --> 00:21:12.759 sister in laws, who I love, and my two aunts who I also 297 00:21:12.759 --> 00:21:15.000 love. They're all very liberal, which I'm like, I can you just 298 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:21.160 leave the fucking church? But they're all strong liberal women, and as we're 299 00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:26.119 standing around, I did have this sense of like female strength in the room. 300 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:27.920 The funeral director had walked out at that point. He's a nice guy. 301 00:21:29.720 --> 00:21:33.119 And one of the things that hit me is my my aunt Beverly. 302 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:37.920 She said, well, I think we should probably have a prayer, and 303 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:41.839 that kind of gave me pause because there's still that thing of like, I 304 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.440 don't know, but I was, you know, whatever, whatever, and 305 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.440 then she said, Shelley, who would you like to say the prayer? 306 00:21:48.279 --> 00:21:56.000 That was beautiful. That was respect from my still Mormon family, who knows 307 00:21:56.039 --> 00:21:59.640 I am so not Mormon, who knows I have an anti Mormon podcast. 308 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.319 The respect of you are your mom's daughter was amazing. I didn't expect that 309 00:22:04.519 --> 00:22:11.000 and it was It kind of made me tear up because I'm not used to 310 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:17.799 getting that kind of respect within the Mormon world, especially the respect of putting 311 00:22:17.960 --> 00:22:21.119 that sounds horrible, of putting me above others, meaning I was the one 312 00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:25.799 who got to choose who said the prayer. I haven't been broy my whole 313 00:22:25.799 --> 00:22:32.680 fucking life. I haven't been the one who gets to choose ever in Mormonism. 314 00:22:33.079 --> 00:22:37.960 And damn right, it took another woman to recognize that I can an 315 00:22:37.960 --> 00:22:41.680 ex Mormon making that decision X Mormon covered in tattoos. I think I was 316 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:45.720 wearing it like a pink T shirt that said be happier. So I don't 317 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:48.720 know, you know, shorts probably had gay vans on. I don't know, 318 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:52.079 but that was amazing. And so I asked Beverly if she would say 319 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:56.440 the prayer. She just should. The prayer was beautiful, and then the 320 00:22:56.480 --> 00:23:02.920 funeral director came back in and we put the put the ceremonial clothes on. 321 00:23:03.680 --> 00:23:07.359 Of course, I had to crack a fucking joke as I'm tying the robe. 322 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:08.960 On one side, I'm like, this is the easiest I've ever had 323 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:14.640 tying the robe, because you know, it's like anytime we have to tie 324 00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:18.799 in the temple at least when I was through. You have to change all 325 00:23:18.799 --> 00:23:21.559 these Oh you got the ribbon and the bow and the tying, and then 326 00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.720 everyone's checking you and you're the scrutiny, and you're like, I don't want 327 00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:26.759 to be last. I don't want to be last. Oh ship, the 328 00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:30.519 ribbon fell out of my hand. I got it. Now there's belcrow. 329 00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:34.799 Yes, I heard too late for me, though, I was always panicking 330 00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:40.440 about the stress we put on each other, the stress on the temple, 331 00:23:40.480 --> 00:23:42.839 remembering the words how does the handshake go? So fucked them? Did I 332 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.359 figure to take my slippers off and put them right back on? God, 333 00:23:45.400 --> 00:23:48.839 you're going to hell if you or no, I'm sorry. The person you're 334 00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:51.839 there by proxy four would be going to hell because you would forget to take 335 00:23:51.880 --> 00:23:55.400 the slippers off. Yeah. So still if you take the left one off 336 00:23:55.400 --> 00:23:59.759 first, so the right one off first, I'm glad you made a joke. 337 00:24:00.039 --> 00:24:03.440 Oh I had to. And the other ladies response absolutely. My sister 338 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:04.799 in La Heidi, who's my favorite, this Mark's wife, she laughed the 339 00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.440 loudest and she's like, I know, oh, so that she broke her 340 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.799 temple covenant loud laughter to avoid loud laughing. You know, it's hard for 341 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:17.079 people to avoid loud laughter around me. It was a good tension breaker, 342 00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:21.279 good because it is a little I mean, it wasn't weird. I just 343 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:23.960 had never done it before. I was worried driving there. I didn't know 344 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:26.880 what she would look like. I just didn't know. I had no idea. 345 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:30.960 I've never been around a dead body. I've never touched a dead body. 346 00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.920 I was worried it would be weird or gross. I don't know. 347 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:38.240 I had everything. I was scared to see my mom dead so much, 348 00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:42.640 so much so as the way that we did at the funeral director is like, 349 00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:45.079 Okay, I'm going to roll her toward me. You're going to tuck 350 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:52.319 the apron underneath her whatever. It was all very not awkward. The funeral 351 00:24:52.400 --> 00:24:56.160 director was very kind. It was a beautiful experience to be with the strong 352 00:24:56.160 --> 00:25:00.519 women in the family, because I do consider those ones were there. It's 353 00:25:00.559 --> 00:25:03.559 the strong women, not to diss the others anyway. So we took care 354 00:25:03.599 --> 00:25:07.359 of that. And then I painted my mom's nails because she was always very 355 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.920 loud and bright and colorful, and her favorite color, if you ever asked 356 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:14.880 her, was sky blue. Pink, sky blue, pink. She was 357 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:18.920 always saying whacky shit that didn't make sense. What I don't know, that 358 00:25:18.960 --> 00:25:22.319 would be my mom answering in her funky ways. So I had like a 359 00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.519 sky blue color and a pink color, and so I just did every other 360 00:25:26.599 --> 00:25:29.920 nail. It's very transgender, right, I should have put her in some 361 00:25:30.000 --> 00:25:33.880 kind of flag. Oh yes, not a queer flag in her casket exactly. 362 00:25:34.599 --> 00:25:37.839 So then I'm just thrilled that she has pink and blue nails. We 363 00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:42.680 all wear wore pink and blue to the funeral, every kid. I know, 364 00:25:45.279 --> 00:25:48.640 I almost wore my pink birket stocks because I'm wearing pink and white or 365 00:25:48.640 --> 00:25:51.519 blue and white right now. You should have. That's really funny pink and 366 00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:53.680 blue mm hm, because that's that. See, And those are the things 367 00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:59.359 about my mom that, despite her being very weak and not kind of standing 368 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:03.160 up for me, things growing up, things about my mom I love. 369 00:26:04.160 --> 00:26:07.680 So Kimberly, I think it's time we take a short break. Sound good, 370 00:26:08.119 --> 00:26:15.880 cool, be right back, and we're back. So at the end 371 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:19.160 of dressing her, the funeral director was like, okay, so how this 372 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:26.119 works is we will have the veil in the coffin kind of like downward it 373 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:33.240 can't be seen. And then before the casket closes, the daughter look at 374 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:34.160 me. You will be the one to put the veil on her face. 375 00:26:34.319 --> 00:26:37.880 Oh she said that to you. Yes, wow, that's like the highest 376 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:41.599 of the things that you can do. But my initial reaction was I'm not 377 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:47.519 putting a fucking veil on my mom's face. I stopped that thought. I'm 378 00:26:47.559 --> 00:26:51.160 like, this isn't about me. So your mother would have wanted that veil, 379 00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:57.119 she would have wanted to obey everything. Sure, yeah, I almost 380 00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.200 No, I didn't almost say it, but man, and that thought crept 381 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:04.119 up from like my bowels because I hate the veil. I hate that the 382 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:10.119 women had to cover their faces with the veil in order to do anything like 383 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:12.200 the high level temple shit. I hated it. I always have, always 384 00:27:12.240 --> 00:27:17.599 will. But I stop myself from saying something because I reminded myself that this 385 00:27:17.680 --> 00:27:19.920 is not about me, like, I will deal with this. I will 386 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:27.200 emotionally deal with this, but I I want to do for my mom what 387 00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:32.519 she would want. You suspended your ego. Yes, that's a beautiful thing. 388 00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:34.640 Thank you, thank you. And by the way, any listeners, 389 00:27:34.680 --> 00:27:38.440 if you would have made different choices than I did concerning this ex Mormon and 390 00:27:38.559 --> 00:27:45.200 Mormon funeral. I understand. I don't judge anything. This is what I 391 00:27:45.240 --> 00:27:51.640 did, and this is my story. So don't feel like you should have 392 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:53.279 done something because I did it a certain way or whatever. I don't think 393 00:27:53.279 --> 00:27:59.039 we should judge anyone for what they did in complicated situations like that, because 394 00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:03.200 we all know ex Mormonism, when you have Mormon family, it's so fucking 395 00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:07.480 complicated. It truly is. When you love people who are Mormon and you 396 00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:10.759 hate that they're Mormon, but you love them. I don't know, it's 397 00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:14.480 a mess. You get this right, Kimberly, You have family, right. 398 00:28:14.599 --> 00:28:18.400 My father died two Decembers ago, and I was not told he was 399 00:28:18.519 --> 00:28:23.119 dying until after he was dead. In fact, I didn't know that he 400 00:28:23.240 --> 00:28:27.440 was dying until or that he was dead until one day before the funeral. 401 00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:36.200 So it's pulling some things up in my yeah, emotions and my feelings regarding 402 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.839 my father's death that I was not even involved and in fact, in the 403 00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:47.920 obituary they dead named me. Fuck right. So you so you say that 404 00:28:48.000 --> 00:28:52.839 things with X former Mormons and Mormons and funerals are complicated. That is a 405 00:28:52.000 --> 00:28:56.640 very strong understatement. For sure. For sure, I didn't say yes or 406 00:28:56.680 --> 00:28:59.559 no to the belw was just assumed that I would because the guy was like, 407 00:28:59.599 --> 00:29:00.279 you know, this is what you're gonna do, and just so that 408 00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:03.960 you know, there wouldn't be awkwardness, like how does this? How do 409 00:29:03.039 --> 00:29:07.720 I do this where it's availa blah blah blah. So came back from dressing 410 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:11.960 the body and then I was sitting next to my brothers, Mike and Mark, 411 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:12.519 and they were like, how did it go? And I kind of 412 00:29:12.519 --> 00:29:17.119 talked to hunt them and I'm like, okay, so how it works is 413 00:29:17.200 --> 00:29:21.319 before they close the casket, I go up and do the veil thing and 414 00:29:21.359 --> 00:29:25.319 then my brother Mark says, well, you're not allowed to and I go 415 00:29:25.519 --> 00:29:29.079 who said? And he said, well, we had to call the bishop 416 00:29:29.119 --> 00:29:30.200 to find out, you know, what we can and can't do. And 417 00:29:30.279 --> 00:29:34.279 again I want to shake him, be like you're so fucking brainwashed. Mark, 418 00:29:34.279 --> 00:29:40.200 You're such a good guy, and this is making you just do things 419 00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:45.960 that you you wouldn't You wouldn't ever think that your little sister shouldn't be able 420 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:51.079 to be there for the last moment of the open casket. But the fucking 421 00:29:51.240 --> 00:29:55.680 church, the fucking church. He also said, and we found out you 422 00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.200 weren't supposed to go dress the body, and I said, oh, well, 423 00:29:59.519 --> 00:30:03.079 better her and redress her appropriately, right right, go ahead, Tay. 424 00:30:03.359 --> 00:30:07.759 It's clearly my unworthiness destroyed that moment and my mom's fucked, so you 425 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:12.039 better go redo it with people who are worthy. And I was getting, 426 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:17.359 you know, those feelings were bubbling up, and I just was like, 427 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:18.240 I don't care. I don't care. Mark. He goes, well, 428 00:30:18.279 --> 00:30:21.519 I'm just telling you what the bishop said. I said, what's the bishop's 429 00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:25.240 number? So he gave me the bishop's phone number. And I'm pretty ampt 430 00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:27.720 up at this time. So now you are angry. I'm angry. I'm 431 00:30:27.759 --> 00:30:30.559 angry, and I told my brothers, look, I'm not gonna yell at 432 00:30:30.599 --> 00:30:33.039 him. I just need to discuss this with him. And I went outside 433 00:30:33.079 --> 00:30:34.200 and I called him and he wasn't there, and I left a message, 434 00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:40.359 and I'm so glad, so glad that that happened, because about five minutes 435 00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.640 later, I'm like, why the fuck am I calling this guy to ask 436 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:48.359 permission? Why the fuck am I calling this guy to explain why it should 437 00:30:48.440 --> 00:30:51.359 be me? He doesn't know me. He actually doesn't even know my mom. 438 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:56.279 He's the new bishop in the ward. I am not going to defer 439 00:30:56.359 --> 00:31:03.160 to this motherfucker about a stranger, a stranger to both you and your mother. 440 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:07.279 Yes, thinking that he needs to call the shots because of a fucking 441 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:12.240 handbook. This is not my religion. It was my mom's religion. But 442 00:31:12.559 --> 00:31:17.440 I dare fucking tea she would want me to be the one to do that. 443 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:22.319 She wasn't the type to exclude. She wasn't. And so this time 444 00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.960 I'm getting emotional. I'm still kind of hurt that my brothers called to find 445 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:29.920 out the rules. But again I'm reminding myself their brainwashed, their brainwashed, 446 00:31:29.920 --> 00:31:32.960 don't be mad at them. And I went and grabbed my two sister in 447 00:31:33.039 --> 00:31:34.559 laws, at least in Haidie, and I'm like, can we talk in 448 00:31:34.599 --> 00:31:37.000 the back room. They came back there and I told him what had happened, 449 00:31:37.720 --> 00:31:42.359 and Heidi, my hugest support, goes, oh, you're doing the 450 00:31:42.440 --> 00:31:47.319 veil. I'll go up there with you and like, fight off anyone who 451 00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:52.319 tries to tell you you can't this, this is not no. I will 452 00:31:52.359 --> 00:31:53.839 go tell Mark and Mike right now you need to butt out. This is 453 00:31:53.839 --> 00:32:00.240 gonna happen it'll be messy if something happens there at the funeral. And again, 454 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:06.920 Ah, the experience to feel the support of a Mormon supporting breaking the 455 00:32:07.079 --> 00:32:13.160 rules because love comes first, and I feel like you just don't get that 456 00:32:13.240 --> 00:32:17.200 a lot, you know. And maybe it was because she was a woman, 457 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:23.480 and maybe it was because she understands like the relationship of a mother and 458 00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:29.119 daughter, and maybe it was because she understands like, I'm the only daughter. 459 00:32:29.680 --> 00:32:34.519 This is my right, this is my right to do this. I 460 00:32:34.519 --> 00:32:38.559 don't care what religion you are. Don't dismiss me from my right to be 461 00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:44.079 there with my mom at the very very end, just because it's some fucking 462 00:32:45.480 --> 00:32:51.960 man saying the handbook says this thing. You don't this guy doesn't understand emotions, 463 00:32:52.160 --> 00:32:57.920 he doesn't get connections clearly, or he's just so fucking trying to climb 464 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:00.240 the ladder that he's going to do everything the book. By the way, 465 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:06.039 this guy is maybe thirty five years old tops tops. When I saw at 466 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:07.720 the funeral, I'm like, oh, this is the fucker that thinks that 467 00:33:07.799 --> 00:33:15.720 he owns the world. So having that and at least supported me too. 468 00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.359 But Heidi was like, I will tackle anyone who tries to get in the 469 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:24.839 way of this, anyone you're doing the bail and I just cried. I 470 00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:30.240 again, just feeling supported by someone who's on the other side. They're Mormon, 471 00:33:30.279 --> 00:33:36.279 but they're supporting me. I didn't expect that I would need that support. 472 00:33:36.279 --> 00:33:38.640 I didn't know all the fucking rules, but to have that was just 473 00:33:40.000 --> 00:33:45.039 okay, all right, I can do this, you know. So we're 474 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:50.119 recording this fairly recently after these events. I was there last week. So 475 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:53.000 what day how many days ago? Was this Friday? On Friday? Is 476 00:33:53.000 --> 00:33:55.920 one week? Seven days ago? Yeah, this is fresh, Oh so 477 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.720 fresh. And I'll probably cry and I'm gonna swear a lot, and you 478 00:33:59.759 --> 00:34:06.160 know this, this is fresh. This was a hugely impactful experience for me. 479 00:34:06.799 --> 00:34:08.719 By the way, I'm a big fan of Heidi never matter, probably 480 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:14.360 never will. I'm also a big fan of any woman that will push back 481 00:34:14.360 --> 00:34:17.239 against male patriarchy in the church. Yes, because it's not easy, whether 482 00:34:17.239 --> 00:34:21.400 they're in it or whether they're out of it. And I think that you're 483 00:34:21.400 --> 00:34:23.199 going to start to see more and more of that happening. I agree, 484 00:34:23.840 --> 00:34:28.360 I carry help, but wonder five years ago, ten years ago, certainly 485 00:34:28.360 --> 00:34:32.719 twenty years ago. This would never have happened. No, no, no, 486 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:36.760 Now the ex MOO would not have even been like, it wouldn't even 487 00:34:36.760 --> 00:34:40.320 been a consideration. No, no, I think that's changed. Okay, 488 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:44.840 so moving on the story. I felt more comfortable at that point. And 489 00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:47.760 then the next morning, Oh, I told my brothers afterwards. I'm like, 490 00:34:47.800 --> 00:34:51.360 hey, I'm doing the bill and they were like, oh, okay, 491 00:34:52.000 --> 00:34:55.239 they didn't want to fuck with me. They didn't want to. And 492 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.280 then the next morning I woke up. This was like the day before the 493 00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.840 funeral. I think in Mark and not Heidie Mark, and at least we're 494 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:07.960 sitting at there. At least is Mike's wife. She's definitely more strict on 495 00:35:07.000 --> 00:35:12.079 the Mormonism. Heidi is Mark's wife, who was like, I love you 496 00:35:12.159 --> 00:35:15.159 before I love any religion. So I'm sitting there with Mark and I said, 497 00:35:15.199 --> 00:35:19.000 listen, I just kind of have to get this off my chest. 498 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:23.159 This is the problem I have with religion, is that this person that I 499 00:35:23.199 --> 00:35:25.639 don't know is going to tell me that I can't be with my mom, 500 00:35:27.280 --> 00:35:30.960 you know, over things that I don't believe in, over things that I 501 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.440 know she would want me to do. And he's like, of course, 502 00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:37.199 look, I just wanted to respect her wishes, you know, and I 503 00:35:37.239 --> 00:35:38.960 get that, but those weren't her wishes. I'm telling you, as the 504 00:35:39.119 --> 00:35:43.320 daughter and as the conversations that we've had, that was not her wishes for 505 00:35:43.360 --> 00:35:46.760 me to be excluded from anything ever. And then my sister in law, 506 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:49.880 Atlise, who is more strict, She's like, well, you know, 507 00:35:51.079 --> 00:35:54.840 when I go to Israel or whatever, their mosques and things that I can't 508 00:35:54.880 --> 00:36:00.000 visit because I'm a woman. I said, it's different. It's different. 509 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:02.000 That is a whole different religion. This is not your family. It's not 510 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:07.199 the same thing. And she just kind of kept having to come up with 511 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:09.440 reasons as like why we should respa. It's like, you should respect this, 512 00:36:09.519 --> 00:36:13.679 and I'm like, no, I respect my mom. So she's trying 513 00:36:13.679 --> 00:36:16.760 to pull a very common logical fallacy that we call the false equivalence. Explain 514 00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:21.679 that false equivalent. Oh well, I happen to have my logical fallacies deck 515 00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:24.360 of cards here with shit. Okay, should take a second and find the 516 00:36:24.400 --> 00:36:28.159 one that says the false equivalence and read it on read it for the podcast, 517 00:36:28.239 --> 00:36:30.880 and we should play some strip poker as we do. So, oh, 518 00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:36.760 shirt's coming off, No bras today podcast means no bras. Oh, 519 00:36:36.800 --> 00:36:37.880 well, then I'm going to be naked a whole lot sooner than you. 520 00:36:38.880 --> 00:36:44.440 Kimberly is shuffling the deck and you know, and I hate that shit where 521 00:36:44.440 --> 00:36:46.800 it's like, well, well, it's also it's also a confirmation bias, 522 00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:50.920 oh for sure. And you know, I'm gonna keep talking a while. 523 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:54.599 You look, I do view this differently than I'm not allowed to go in 524 00:36:54.639 --> 00:37:00.599 the temple for a temple wedding because yeah, that's stupid, right, but 525 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.320 the whole with my mom, and it's not like it's in a sacred place 526 00:37:05.360 --> 00:37:08.519 where you have to have a secret paths to get in. It's just just 527 00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:13.760 different. And some people that I've talked to who don't truly get Mormonism, 528 00:37:13.800 --> 00:37:15.079 you know, they're they're kind of like, well, well, fuck it, 529 00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.960 you shouldn't. You shouldn't do any of that stuff. Fuck that religion, 530 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:23.360 you know, but not understanding the severe juggling that has to happen between 531 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:27.400 hating the religion and loving some of the people in it. To find the 532 00:37:27.400 --> 00:37:30.360 card, apparently my decad Cards doesn't have it in here. Well, however, 533 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:36.320 what it does have instead are three other logical fallacies that are that are 534 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:39.519 important to look at. One is an appeal to emotion, which means manipulating 535 00:37:39.519 --> 00:37:44.679 an emotional response in place of a valid or compelling argument. The appeal to 536 00:37:44.760 --> 00:37:47.760 authority, using the opinion or position of an authority, figure, or institution 537 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:53.320 of authority in place of an actual argument yep. Also the confirmation bias. 538 00:37:53.599 --> 00:37:59.920 You favor things that confirm your existing beliefs. Yes, so these people are 539 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:05.000 engaging in all kinds of logical fallacies, including the false equivalence, which means, 540 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:07.239 basically, in Layman's terms, apples two oranges. I get where she 541 00:38:07.320 --> 00:38:10.960 was coming from saying, but it's no, it's just it's it's designed to 542 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:17.760 keep perfrom feeling uncomfortable about what's going on. Right about that, she exactly. 543 00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:22.280 I think if Heidi hadn't ha been there first and said, oh, 544 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:24.840 yeah, you're doing the veil, Hell yeah, that it might have been 545 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:28.960 a little bit more of a struggle with the lease. She probably would have 546 00:38:29.079 --> 00:38:30.360 said, like, you know, do what you want to do, but 547 00:38:30.440 --> 00:38:35.559 I wouldn't have felt the extreme support like I did from hiding. Anyway, 548 00:38:35.559 --> 00:38:37.800 that conversation ended, I just was like, look, I want to get 549 00:38:37.840 --> 00:38:40.039 this on my chest. I cried, Mark gave me a hug, you 550 00:38:40.039 --> 00:38:44.320 know, because again Mark's a sweetheart. Why does he have to be Mormon? 551 00:38:44.679 --> 00:38:49.559 Fuck? Luck of the draw. Right. So then we spent that 552 00:38:49.800 --> 00:38:52.800 night, me and all the grandkids painting our fingernails. Ever, all the 553 00:38:52.840 --> 00:38:55.880 pink and the blue, all of us, all the bright pink. I 554 00:38:55.920 --> 00:39:01.280 should have left it on for this. My boys had pink and blue ties. 555 00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:05.159 This is like a serious trans feral at some point, Oh, for 556 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:08.280 sure, for sure. Wow, I know, I know, you know. 557 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.360 It was amazing that we can be clearly, that's not what your mother 558 00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:15.760 is anticipating. Everyone's going to understand. They're going to look at the pink 559 00:39:15.760 --> 00:39:19.199 and blue and think about Grandma, of course, but there's like an under 560 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:23.119 there's a serious queer undercurrent of trans inclusion in this c My mom was so 561 00:39:23.159 --> 00:39:28.400 inclusive and I'll get to that part. But yeah, yes, that was 562 00:39:28.440 --> 00:39:30.239 my mom, and she was loud, and the whole sky blue pink, 563 00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:34.360 whatever fuck that is. We're gonna do it all up. One thing. 564 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.039 Okay, let's go back to Mark for a second, my brother Mark. 565 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:45.559 We have in the family, specifically one queer person that goes by they them 566 00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:52.920 and is now named Granite. Oh, I love that great and matching, 567 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.880 the perfect non binary name. I know, they go they say it matches 568 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:01.280 the darkness of my heart. They're so funny. They're so funny, they're 569 00:40:01.360 --> 00:40:08.119 hilarious. So Granted's mom message you mean was like the ibetuary looks nice. 570 00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:12.360 I'm not surprised that they dead named Granted. It is what it is. 571 00:40:12.519 --> 00:40:15.599 And I said, oh shit, let me talk to Mark. So Mark, 572 00:40:15.599 --> 00:40:20.000 who's the rule follower? I said, Mark, listen. Andrea was 573 00:40:20.079 --> 00:40:23.159 like kind of we're you know, kind of mentioned and Mark go's, oh 574 00:40:23.199 --> 00:40:27.760 crap, I'll change that right now. Oh wow, Right, so this 575 00:40:27.800 --> 00:40:29.880 is who Mark is. I don't think Mike would have changed it. A 576 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.360 right, good job Mark, bravo. Yeah. So he you know, 577 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.440 emailed it and got that change. So, yeah, your family fixed something 578 00:40:36.480 --> 00:40:38.760 that my family fucked up. See, good job family, Yeah, yeah, 579 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:43.440 good job. My family's better than yours. Truly. Well you have 580 00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:45.719 a relationship with your family, that's true. You didn't. I still still 581 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:50.920 don't. Yeah, fuck it sucks. So he changed that. That made 582 00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:53.599 me feel good because Mark's come a long way. He used to be very 583 00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:58.000 you know, anti, like that's gross. You know, I'm not going 584 00:40:58.039 --> 00:41:00.079 to call them by their name, but he has come such a long way. 585 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:05.719 His daughter, Courtney, who is my daughter Jenevie's age, she chose 586 00:41:05.760 --> 00:41:10.320 to wear a bright pink suit to the funeral with one of the boys striped 587 00:41:10.320 --> 00:41:15.280 ties. So when she decided that Mark put it out there for everyone. 588 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:19.159 He's like, Okay, how many ties do I do I need to get? 589 00:41:19.320 --> 00:41:22.239 You know, I don't care who wants to wear a tie, Whereas 590 00:41:22.239 --> 00:41:25.320 probably two years ago he would have said boys wear ties, girls wear whatever. 591 00:41:25.480 --> 00:41:29.039 Clearing it up. Wearing it up, by the way, Courtney was 592 00:41:29.159 --> 00:41:34.119 just looks so fucking fabulous. It was like it was it who was like 593 00:41:34.199 --> 00:41:37.800 a hot pink suit, shiny like you'd see on soul train. I mean 594 00:41:38.079 --> 00:41:46.559 great, And she wore my mom's sky blue colored crocs with fucking love Courtney 595 00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:51.800 love Courtney, well, Courtney hear this, Probably not, I don't know, 596 00:41:51.920 --> 00:41:55.000 but I fucking love her and she knows I love her. Anyway, 597 00:41:55.199 --> 00:42:00.360 So when we were talking about who's gonna be the pall Bears, right, 598 00:42:00.440 --> 00:42:02.480 I mean, there's just so much tradition that had to be broken down in 599 00:42:02.559 --> 00:42:07.840 this, and Mark says, well, let's you know the grandsons, and 600 00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:09.719 I go, well, why does it just have to be the grandsons. 601 00:42:10.039 --> 00:42:15.360 He goes, uh, I don't know. I know, tradition, tradition, 602 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:21.280 tradition, bucking the system. And the fact that it was Mark who 603 00:42:21.320 --> 00:42:22.360 was doing this. I think that's why I was able to get in there, 604 00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:24.960 buck the system, because I don't know if Mike would have maybe, 605 00:42:24.960 --> 00:42:29.679 I don't know. So I said, listen, I don't want this to 606 00:42:29.719 --> 00:42:31.679 be a boys do this, girls do this thing. I don't like that. 607 00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:35.800 I don't think mom was like that. And he was like, cool, 608 00:42:35.840 --> 00:42:37.559 great, how do you want to do it? And I said, 609 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:42.800 well, why don't we just do like the oldest two kids of each family, 610 00:42:42.960 --> 00:42:45.039 just so you know, I don't know, I have to pick something. 611 00:42:45.239 --> 00:42:49.679 But then I said, why can't they all do it? Why can't 612 00:42:49.719 --> 00:42:52.199 we somehow find a way to include all of them? So we talked to 613 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:53.800 the funeral director and he's like, yeah, half of them can do it 614 00:42:53.960 --> 00:42:59.320 at the funeral. The other half can carry her from the hearse to the 615 00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:02.559 burial site. Fuck yeah. So we picked half boys and half girls for 616 00:43:02.679 --> 00:43:07.440 each movement of her casket. And I'm just feeling better and better about this. 617 00:43:07.519 --> 00:43:12.159 I love that the girls and the women are so inclusive or inclusive and 618 00:43:12.280 --> 00:43:16.760 included in this process. Yes, yes, absolutely, this is how traditions 619 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:22.360 change. Yes, yes, because I wasn't going to have a traditional The 620 00:43:22.440 --> 00:43:25.480 strong women were not going to have it traditional. The grandkids who were girls, 621 00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:29.400 they were not going to have it traditional. I don't think they even 622 00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:31.719 recognized it. They were breaking them all traditional exactly. They wouldn't have made 623 00:43:31.719 --> 00:43:35.280 sense to them to not be a pallbearer. They're just like, I want 624 00:43:35.320 --> 00:43:37.079 to be on the left side of Grandma on the back. You know, 625 00:43:37.159 --> 00:43:39.920 there was no because kids these days are fucking awesome. They claim they're on 626 00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:44.679 space. Yes, yes, I love me some gen z. I don't 627 00:43:44.679 --> 00:43:47.880 care how much the older generations complain about them. I love gen z. 628 00:43:49.239 --> 00:43:53.400 They will save us. Oh absolutely absolutely. So planned that part. Then 629 00:43:53.440 --> 00:43:59.159 we had to plan who's speaking at the funeral, and one of the big 630 00:43:59.199 --> 00:44:02.039 obstacles was we can't have David, the oldest piece of shit. We can't 631 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.920 have him speaking because he is horrible. He will talk about how much we 632 00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:09.519 didn't let him take care of mind. It's all bullshit, it's all He's 633 00:44:09.519 --> 00:44:13.079 a narcissist, and I will say that out loud. Well, let's be 634 00:44:13.119 --> 00:44:15.800 real the funeral. At this point, once the speaking starts, it's not 635 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:20.400 so much a funeral for the person, but it's a propaganda and proselytizing effort 636 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:23.639 by the church exactly. And I didn't want that. So who makes a 637 00:44:23.639 --> 00:44:28.119 decisions about who's going to speak? Again, that thirty five year old rookie 638 00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.800 bishop. Nope, who made the decisions? The three of us did together 639 00:44:31.920 --> 00:44:37.440 good. We decided that Mark would speak, We decided that I would speak, 640 00:44:37.639 --> 00:44:44.360 and we decided that we would allow Dick face David to do the prayer 641 00:44:44.480 --> 00:44:46.639 just before they close the coffin because there's less people in there. It's like 642 00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:51.400 damage control, you know. And that Mike, because you have to be 643 00:44:51.440 --> 00:44:54.880 a worthy priestheth holder, will do the dedicatory prayer at the grave. So 644 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.360 on the way to the funeral, I'm realizing that none of my kids have 645 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.440 seen a dead body, and so I was explaining to them, Okay, 646 00:45:02.480 --> 00:45:07.400 so there's there's part of the funeral beforehand where there's a viewing and you were 647 00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:12.000 you can go into the room where Grandma is laying there in an open casket, 648 00:45:12.039 --> 00:45:14.719 and you can see her and you can touch her and say goodbye. 649 00:45:15.760 --> 00:45:17.199 None of you have to do that. If you don't want if that seems 650 00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:22.159 weird, if that seems uncomfortable, you don't have to do that. And 651 00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:24.239 I told them, also, I saw Grandma like two days ago, and 652 00:45:24.280 --> 00:45:28.480 she looks really good. She doesn't look creepy or weird. She doesn't look 653 00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:31.920 like a zombies. We started like cracking jokes about zombie Grandma just to kind 654 00:45:31.920 --> 00:45:35.639 of, you know, I do that when things a little heavy eye joke 655 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:37.440 and the kids laugh and then we're all good again. So I didn't know 656 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.920 who was going to do what. We get to the funeral and they all 657 00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:45.440 want to go see Grandma. We all go in there. There's lots of 658 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:49.920 people. My kids were totally fine with seeing her. They cried. My 659 00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:54.000 kids are sweethearts. They adored Grandma Jay. And one thing that I was 660 00:45:54.119 --> 00:46:00.719 so happy about was I saw so much of my fan that I hadn't seen 661 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:04.599 in probably twenty twenty five years. They were so happy to see me, 662 00:46:05.239 --> 00:46:07.920 and I didn't I didn't know what was gonna be. Like, I'm like, 663 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:08.599 I don't know. They know I've left the church, they know I 664 00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:10.920 have a podcast, Like, they know I've got tattoos, they know I'm 665 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:15.039 angry. Or was angry, but they were so happy to see me, 666 00:46:15.079 --> 00:46:20.400 and the hugs they gave me were like for real long hugs, and that 667 00:46:20.519 --> 00:46:23.760 felt good again to be Uh, I felt accepted and I didn't know. 668 00:46:23.960 --> 00:46:27.920 I don't know. Did I need that acceptance? I don't know. I 669 00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:30.199 think I was fine without it, but feeling it felt like it felt good. 670 00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:35.000 And so there's this juggle that's internal, like am I still looking for 671 00:46:35.079 --> 00:46:38.920 approval? Am I still needing this? Or did it just feel good when 672 00:46:38.960 --> 00:46:43.079 it happened? Is that a rhetorical question? Do you need that approval? 673 00:46:43.159 --> 00:46:46.239 I don't know. I don't I don't feel like I do. But it 674 00:46:46.239 --> 00:46:50.119 does feel really good when I get it, you know, I don't know. 675 00:46:50.679 --> 00:46:52.400 Both of those can be true. Okay, I didn't think I needed 676 00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:57.320 it. I don't know. I think if there were some people that didn't 677 00:46:57.599 --> 00:47:00.239 approve of me, I think I just kind of be like, there's they 678 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.920 suck and move on. If everyone didn't improve me, that would probably hurt. 679 00:47:02.960 --> 00:47:06.519 I don't know. I don't know. It was just good that it 680 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:09.079 was that way. My dad was there. He just kind of sat in 681 00:47:09.119 --> 00:47:15.239 a corner, glazed over eyes sad when people would come in and they'd say, 682 00:47:15.239 --> 00:47:17.000 where's your dad, I'd say, well, he's over there, but 683 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:21.480 he can't remember people's names. If you could please introduce yourself, because he 684 00:47:21.519 --> 00:47:24.119 hates that he can't remember people's names. I felt bad for him. He 685 00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:29.559 just I mean, I don't like to see anyone sad, but I just 686 00:47:29.639 --> 00:47:35.199 felt for him because he just looked so gone, so checked out. Anyway, 687 00:47:35.320 --> 00:47:39.800 all of that that stuff happened, and then it was time for the 688 00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:44.920 veil. And I'm a little nervous because my idiot brother David. He went 689 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:46.679 up and said the prayer and it was very weird because he's very weird, 690 00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.639 and then he sat back down. I knew it was time, and so 691 00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.760 I walked the fuck up there. There's a funeral director and some random dude 692 00:47:53.800 --> 00:47:57.559 and then the bishop next to him. And I walked up there. Didn't 693 00:47:57.559 --> 00:48:00.760 even look. The bishop didn't because I don't care about him him. He's 694 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.079 zero to me, nothing, he says, he's nothing to me. And 695 00:48:05.119 --> 00:48:07.920 I walked up the director and I'm like, I'm ready to do the veil. 696 00:48:07.920 --> 00:48:13.440 He said, okay, so he lifted up her head. I said, 697 00:48:13.480 --> 00:48:15.400 it behind her head right and kind of on the top, and he 698 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:17.119 said, you can either put it over her face or near the sides. 699 00:48:19.039 --> 00:48:22.599 I don't know if that's new, I don't know, but like my heart 700 00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:27.639 fucking jumped for joy as I put it on the sides of her, on 701 00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:32.679 the fucking sides. Why is that important? She should never have her face 702 00:48:32.719 --> 00:48:39.159 covered ever. She's beautiful, and I know she would have been good with 703 00:48:39.199 --> 00:48:45.800 that. I know she would have because my mom, she didn't hide herself 704 00:48:45.880 --> 00:48:50.079 with her wacky z any crazy like she was an out person. So I 705 00:48:50.159 --> 00:48:55.039 did that and I kind of leaned into the casket to kiss her on the 706 00:48:55.079 --> 00:49:00.400 cheek and hugger, and all of my emotion finally hit. I don't think 707 00:49:00.440 --> 00:49:06.760 it really really had before then, and it was I felt like it was 708 00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:09.840 me and my mom. That's it, empty room, me and my mom. 709 00:49:10.199 --> 00:49:15.000 I did that last, and I know it's fucking religious, but I 710 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:17.719 didn't care. I did that last, honoring of her in her way. 711 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.360 Doesn't matter if I thought it was bullshit, I don't care. I did 712 00:49:22.360 --> 00:49:27.760 this for her. I was her hands doing this. That's quite a gift 713 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:32.519 you gave her. I agree, I completely agree. And again some people 714 00:49:32.519 --> 00:49:36.480 won't agree that I even went, and that's fine, but this was my 715 00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:38.880 choice. This was my juggle with my anger, with my trauma, with 716 00:49:38.920 --> 00:49:44.800 my mom. It was my juggle my decisions. We might need to take 717 00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:47.320 one more break here, so let's give it a go. Be right back 718 00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:57.320 and we're back. I cried, like ugly cry for probably two solid minutes, 719 00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.199 which doesn't seem like a long time, but when you're a silent room 720 00:50:00.239 --> 00:50:04.320 full of people, it's a long time. I cried and I cried and 721 00:50:04.360 --> 00:50:10.039 I wailed and I sniffed in all of my stress, all of my weird 722 00:50:10.320 --> 00:50:14.400 like disconnect from my mom because she was getting old and it was hard. 723 00:50:15.440 --> 00:50:19.679 Did anyone come up and join you to comfort you? My kids came up 724 00:50:19.719 --> 00:50:23.079 behind me while you were crying. Yeah, my kids are fucking amazing, 725 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:30.360 Kimberly them you. I just feel like a unit with them, Like, 726 00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:36.639 no matter what happens in my life, I have seven cheerleaders who want me 727 00:50:36.719 --> 00:50:40.320 to be happy, who love me. I have seven kids that there's eight 728 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.599 of us that are will always be bonded together, always support each other. 729 00:50:45.880 --> 00:50:53.760 It was beautiful, But probably the most emotional part after that was I said 730 00:50:53.760 --> 00:50:59.559 my goodbyes. They closed the casket. I'm still crying. My brother Mark 731 00:50:59.599 --> 00:51:01.360 comes up to me and hugs me, and he's like, it's just a 732 00:51:01.440 --> 00:51:07.840 hat. You get that. It's a pretty shitty hat. It's a pretty 733 00:51:07.119 --> 00:51:10.400 shitty hat. But he's just yeah, and he's like to me, that 734 00:51:10.559 --> 00:51:14.519 was him saying you should have done this, this was your right, and 735 00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:17.280 it's just a fucking hat anyway. You know. I don't think my brother 736 00:51:17.360 --> 00:51:23.440 Mark has ever said anything to me where I felt that understood, that accepted, 737 00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:29.440 and that loved by him, because again, he's rulesy as shit, 738 00:51:29.880 --> 00:51:35.800 and he saw and agreed with the importance of me doing this thing that I 739 00:51:35.960 --> 00:51:44.639 wasn't quote unquote worthy to do. Ah. Yeah, what are you feeling 740 00:51:44.679 --> 00:51:51.039 in your body right now? Tension, release, gratefulness for my family, 741 00:51:51.199 --> 00:51:53.039 no matter where they are. Not my brother David, he can fuck off, 742 00:51:53.119 --> 00:52:00.760 but grateful for my family who loves me regardless. And I know we 743 00:52:00.800 --> 00:52:02.840 complain when people are like, well, I still love you, even though 744 00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:08.840 I mean that seems like a diss but I felt that I appreciated. I 745 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.360 love that they still still love me. And I know that sounds awful because 746 00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:16.519 people should love people regardless, but I understand the cult that they're in. 747 00:52:17.280 --> 00:52:21.519 I understand that I should be shunned. I understand that I shouldn't have been 748 00:52:21.519 --> 00:52:25.280 allowed to touch anything wholly according to them. I get it. And my 749 00:52:25.519 --> 00:52:30.920 family looked past those rules and was like, yeah, you're good, you 750 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:36.679 should be here. Could have been the most impactful thing of the entire funeral 751 00:52:37.119 --> 00:52:40.760 was that it was. I'll take that forever with me. I can still 752 00:52:40.880 --> 00:52:46.639 picture my mom laying there, beautiful with the veil on the sides, not 753 00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:52.320 on her face, and just the silence in there as I'm crying, and 754 00:52:52.599 --> 00:52:57.960 my brother saying what he said, and then my kids hugging me so tight 755 00:52:59.119 --> 00:53:01.599 like we were all in a certain Me and my kids, my fucking kids 756 00:53:01.639 --> 00:53:07.599 who give me life, hugging in a circle and crying over Grandma. It 757 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:15.320 was. I think it's like a milestone in life. And I'm so lucky 758 00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:17.400 that for me it was beautiful, because it wasn't beautiful for you when your 759 00:53:17.480 --> 00:53:21.639 dad passed. You didn't have that. Well. I don't want to make 760 00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:23.519 it about me, so I apologize for sharing that earlier, but no, 761 00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:29.639 no, I want to make sure pivot back to you and the incredible juxtaposition 762 00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:37.199 of these sacred circles that involved temple robes. Yeah, the one that you 763 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:42.679 had with your children next to your mother's casket. It sounds to me as 764 00:53:42.719 --> 00:53:45.960 if it was more authentic. It was more inclusive, it was more loving, 765 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:51.480 it was more genuine than any of the circles you'd been in in the 766 00:53:51.519 --> 00:53:57.280 past. And the temple one hundred percent. One hundred percent because any of 767 00:53:57.320 --> 00:54:00.440 the temple ceremonies who I am now, I wouldn't even be like the fuck 768 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:06.400 in there so talk about not being inclusive. But with the funeral, because 769 00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:09.679 I stood up for myself, because I stood up against the patriarchy, I 770 00:54:09.679 --> 00:54:12.840 could have just been like, oh, the bishop said no, okay, 771 00:54:12.880 --> 00:54:15.000 well maybe someone else can do it. I don't want to make waves. 772 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:17.519 Yes, this is their religion. I don't want to make waves. But 773 00:54:17.559 --> 00:54:22.800 it was like you fuck you. And I had to be far enough away 774 00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:24.719 to be like, no, for real, fuck you dude. But I 775 00:54:24.760 --> 00:54:29.039 still called him first. I called him first, and I was gonna explain, 776 00:54:29.400 --> 00:54:32.079 like why I should do this and why do you think I can't? 777 00:54:32.199 --> 00:54:37.199 And I'm so glad he wasn't there to answer the phone because the next thing 778 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:42.920 was like fuck you, No, you are nothing to me. You're not 779 00:54:43.000 --> 00:54:45.000 going to be between me and my mom. What do you think would have 780 00:54:45.079 --> 00:54:50.400 happened had he answered the phone, Oh god, I would have started nice. 781 00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:52.960 I would have asked why. I'm sure it would have come down to 782 00:54:53.119 --> 00:54:55.480 a conversation about the handbook, because at this point I didn't know it was 783 00:54:55.800 --> 00:55:00.559 there was this strict rule in the handbook. I don't know. I don't 784 00:55:00.599 --> 00:55:04.599 know. In the end, who's an authority? Did you ultimately appeal to 785 00:55:05.000 --> 00:55:10.360 fucking mine right? The authority as the only daughter, the only daughter to 786 00:55:10.440 --> 00:55:14.800 a mother. You know, if there had been more daughters, maybe it 787 00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:15.639 would have been easier to be like, yeah, you should probably do this, 788 00:55:15.679 --> 00:55:17.719 but no, no, no, no, no, no no no. 789 00:55:19.679 --> 00:55:23.800 I am a woman, I'm a strong woman. I'm her daughter. 790 00:55:24.320 --> 00:55:29.320 This is my right. No fucking dude is going to come over and do 791 00:55:29.400 --> 00:55:34.000 this because I'm not worthy. And you know, conversation I had with someone 792 00:55:34.000 --> 00:55:36.800 who was like, I wouldn't even have done the veil. Fuck that. 793 00:55:37.000 --> 00:55:38.280 Why did you just say no, this is stupid, I'm not going to 794 00:55:38.320 --> 00:55:43.000 do it. And I said, and this person didn't understand, but I 795 00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:45.519 said, because I wasn't going to allow someone else to fucking do this. 796 00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:50.320 I don't care if I believed it or not. No, one's taking my 797 00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:57.519 place in this m and hmm. Before I went up to do the casket 798 00:55:57.559 --> 00:56:00.760 and the veil, I took my shirt off. I had a shirt on 799 00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:05.639 underneath. I'm sorry. I had a long sleeved topless veil placement. I 800 00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:09.760 love this might have said something, you know, but to clear it up, 801 00:56:09.880 --> 00:56:14.840 I had a long sleeve shirt on the sky blue and then a pink 802 00:56:15.119 --> 00:56:21.199 shirt underneath. I took the long sleeve shirt off almost as I don't know, 803 00:56:21.239 --> 00:56:22.480 it's weird, just like I wanted to stand out. I wanted to 804 00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:27.880 show my strength, like I'm doing this, I'm with my mom. I'm 805 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:32.679 putting the veil. I have tattoos everywhere to represent what. So this is 806 00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:37.519 my family right this, The tattoo on my arm is all of my children. 807 00:56:37.599 --> 00:56:40.920 And that was why there's fucking seven of them. That's about your tattoos. 808 00:56:40.920 --> 00:56:44.719 That's why I'm asking, Yeah, this is what matters to me. 809 00:56:45.719 --> 00:56:50.000 And I wasn't trying to make it about me. I was trying to make 810 00:56:50.039 --> 00:56:52.519 it about fuck. How do I word this? What was important to you 811 00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:57.280 in that moment to be said? What message did you want to make sure 812 00:56:57.519 --> 00:57:00.679 you got? Your mom got the people in the audience guy. But when 813 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:07.199 I take my shirt off, my outer shirt, it was me standing up 814 00:57:07.719 --> 00:57:13.159 against things. It was also me showing just because I have left this fucking 815 00:57:13.239 --> 00:57:17.000 cult doesn't mean I don't want to be part of my mom. Doesn't mean 816 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:21.599 that I feel like I shouldn't. And I also wanted to show that just 817 00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:27.000 because I left the cult doesn't mean I can't be respectful. I'm putting the 818 00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:31.239 fucking bail on. I just wanted them to know. I wanted them to 819 00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:35.679 see that I was worthy to do this with my mom. Not worthy to 820 00:57:35.679 --> 00:57:37.000 go in the tamp I don't give a fuck about this. Not worthy as 821 00:57:37.000 --> 00:57:42.519 far as church terms, but me as her daughter and her my mother, 822 00:57:42.760 --> 00:57:47.159 I was fucking worthy, tattoos and all to go up there and spend that 823 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:52.000 time with my mom before they closed the casket, and that felt good. 824 00:57:52.719 --> 00:57:55.559 Yeah, it's in there because the second half will be the actual funeral service 825 00:57:55.800 --> 00:58:00.440 itself, because there's a lot there. Because I spoke way, I guess 826 00:58:00.440 --> 00:58:05.039 to wrap up this episode, kind of cliffhanger, it is will they have 827 00:58:05.079 --> 00:58:09.559 the funeral or not? Of course we have the funeral. His mom still 828 00:58:09.599 --> 00:58:13.480 in the casket at the the church. Did she make it in the ground 829 00:58:13.519 --> 00:58:15.320 yet, did we pull a weekend at Bernie's? Is she strapped the head 830 00:58:15.320 --> 00:58:17.639 of my car? I don't know. Do I have a stick making her 831 00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:20.800 handwaves? So? No, no, she's dead. What do you think 832 00:58:20.840 --> 00:58:22.840 we did? I vote for a weekend at Bernie's? Fuck? Yeah, 833 00:58:22.840 --> 00:58:25.440 And my mom would have too here, Indeed, she would have loved to 834 00:58:25.480 --> 00:58:36.119 travel around the beach. Yes, sunglasses and a hat. Absolutely national Lampoon's 835 00:58:36.199 --> 00:58:39.119 vacation with when grammatized on the roof? Isn't she dond like like a rocking 836 00:58:39.239 --> 00:58:42.920 chair on the roof or some shit? Oh? I love it. I 837 00:58:43.079 --> 00:58:46.239 love give me a combo Bernie's Lampoon, do whatever we want. I'm gonna 838 00:58:46.239 --> 00:58:49.480 start the script now and be short filmed because I don't have a lot of 839 00:58:49.480 --> 00:58:52.639 time these days. But you can just get to the point where she dies, 840 00:58:52.679 --> 00:58:55.159 and then she travels around like an illustrated novel, a children's book, 841 00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:02.400 something like Travel with Dead Grandma or Dead Grandma's Adventures. Dead Grandmas are people 842 00:59:02.400 --> 00:59:10.119 too. Oh, I love it seriousness mixed with some comedic relief. You 843 00:59:10.199 --> 00:59:13.960 have to, And that was how my my talk was at the funeral. 844 00:59:13.960 --> 00:59:17.639 I'm like you, I can't do all serious, because, as my therapist 845 00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:23.480 says I, she says, I mask my sorrow with jokes, but I 846 00:59:23.480 --> 00:59:27.079 feel like it kind of helps me too, right. So, speaking of 847 00:59:27.119 --> 00:59:30.599 that, I happen to bring a book called What's Your Grief? Not What's 848 00:59:30.639 --> 00:59:32.960 Your Beef? No, What's Your Grief? Lists to help you through any 849 00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:37.039 loss. I actually recently purchased this book. I found that it's written by 850 00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:39.159 a therapist here in the DC area. I like to give this to my 851 00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:43.599 clients that have experienced or are experiencing grief, and I don't, you know, 852 00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:45.679 let them read through the whole thing. I just asked them to, 853 00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:50.039 you know, play this game where you open it to a page and see 854 00:59:50.079 --> 00:59:52.719 what comes up. I like that, Do you want to play? Oh 855 00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:57.280 shit, yes, yes, what's your Grief? This is like picking tarot. 856 00:59:57.280 --> 00:59:59.760 It's like grief tarot. Kind of my joking mind says. I want 857 00:59:59.760 --> 01:00:04.679 to open to page sixty nine. Oh okay, why is that an important 858 01:00:04.719 --> 01:00:07.480 number? I don't know, it's funny, but all my kids think it's 859 01:00:07.480 --> 01:00:08.039 funny too, and they don't even know what it is. I mean, 860 01:00:09.239 --> 01:00:13.880 you said sixty nine on my cast a year ten. Uh So this one 861 01:00:13.920 --> 01:00:15.480 says, what's your grief secret? Is that what you want me to read? 862 01:00:15.880 --> 01:00:19.880 Look on those two pages and what are you finding that's resonant with you? 863 01:00:20.639 --> 01:00:23.360 Let's see, when we keep a secret, that secret is actually helping 864 01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:28.920 us, maybe haunting us, maybe inviting us to reconcile with part of our 865 01:00:28.960 --> 01:00:34.639 past we're hiding from, maybe keeping us from having intimate relationships with others or 866 01:00:34.639 --> 01:00:38.159 ourselves. What secrets are being kept in that funeral that you were unwilling to 867 01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:43.280 keep on keeping? You know, I don't think I had any, but 868 01:00:43.320 --> 01:00:45.840 there was definitely didn't have any. But in that room. Yeah, there 869 01:00:45.840 --> 01:00:50.840 are some big secrets that you said. No more right, And that's what 870 01:00:50.880 --> 01:00:52.760 I mean. I wasn't keeping a secret, but I sure shit showed it. 871 01:00:54.079 --> 01:01:00.599 Maybe the secret I was keeping was that I would go along with things. 872 01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:05.679 And even if people know that I'm rebellious, I don't think they thought 873 01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:09.280 that I would go against the bishop in the church and the handbook. No, 874 01:01:09.360 --> 01:01:12.360 I don't know if all of them knew about the handbook. Shit, 875 01:01:12.639 --> 01:01:15.360 I bet some of them did so, sure as shoot and bet all the 876 01:01:15.400 --> 01:01:22.440 men did so. Secrets out. I am not bowing down to authority, 877 01:01:22.719 --> 01:01:27.280 period. Fuck you. End of story. I will do what I want 878 01:01:27.400 --> 01:01:30.079 and what I need to and what my right is according to me, not 879 01:01:30.199 --> 01:01:35.800 some fucking patriarch religion. Things are coming to my ted talk. I'm glad 880 01:01:35.800 --> 01:01:38.880 I'm here. So next time you and I record, we will undoubtedly talk 881 01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:43.119 about the the actually you know, the speech that you gave. Yes, 882 01:01:43.159 --> 01:01:45.280 it's called a talk, Kimberly, Well, the talk that you gave. 883 01:01:45.320 --> 01:01:49.760 That's right, I forgot how quickly I've forgotten. I want to wager that 884 01:01:49.840 --> 01:01:52.519 you swore in it at least one, maybe twice, that you dropped like 885 01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:55.559 a swear word in your speech at least twice. But don't tell me. 886 01:01:55.599 --> 01:02:01.519 Now, let's leave the Let's let the maybe discussion topic for the LDL groups. 887 01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:07.400 How many times does Shelley swear in her talk at her mother's funeral? 888 01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:12.199 My bet is at least twice? Okay. Also, the question is how 889 01:02:12.239 --> 01:02:16.639 many times did Shelley make a comment that no one would understand except for me 890 01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:20.840 and Mike and Mark and David because it was a dig at fucking David. 891 01:02:20.960 --> 01:02:25.800 Very jokes inside jokes, inside jokes that are digs at that motherfucker who has 892 01:02:25.840 --> 01:02:31.719 caused so many problems. So there's two cliffhanger questions, yes, swear count 893 01:02:32.199 --> 01:02:37.159 and dig count. Yes, okay, yes, all right, this has 894 01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:39.519 been awesome. Well there are you going, Kimberly. What have you been 895 01:02:39.599 --> 01:02:42.519 up to? Let's hear it. Oh gosh, well you know what I've 896 01:02:42.519 --> 01:02:45.159 been up to. Because we since move here to DC, you and I 897 01:02:45.159 --> 01:02:46.599 have hung out quite a bit. I know, I love you. I'm 898 01:02:46.599 --> 01:02:50.000 so glad you're here. Well, I am too, and I'm so glad 899 01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:52.199 Jess has kept you in her life because she's fucking amazing. Well she has 900 01:02:52.239 --> 01:02:54.880 to keep me in her life. She has no choice. Good something like 901 01:02:54.920 --> 01:03:00.360 being controlling girlfriend. Oh I love a good girlfriend. I said your room 902 01:03:00.360 --> 01:03:02.039 and she says, oh, okay, coming, And I say, am 903 01:03:02.079 --> 01:03:06.000 I come? Sorry, not yet, give me a minute, go to 904 01:03:06.039 --> 01:03:07.079 your room and clean up for toys. And she's like, oh, okay, 905 01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:09.599 it sounds kind of hot. Which toys? The ones in the top 906 01:03:09.639 --> 01:03:15.039 closet, the bottom closet, the bottom closet. But I love Jess. 907 01:03:15.079 --> 01:03:19.239 She's been great. What am I being up to? So got a place 908 01:03:19.239 --> 01:03:23.039 here in d C with Jess. Our partnership is very committed. We're very 909 01:03:23.119 --> 01:03:25.960 much in love. All of our challenges, you know about our lives. 910 01:03:27.000 --> 01:03:30.360 Notwithstanding you meet someone later on in life with children and with the messy you 911 01:03:30.360 --> 01:03:34.679 know, situation all the way around both her and me. I'm not talking 912 01:03:34.679 --> 01:03:38.119 about her exclusively. We both bring trom to the table. So thank god 913 01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:43.000 we're both therapists, right, and we can work through our challenges together and 914 01:03:43.280 --> 01:03:46.960 recommit to each other almost daily. Actually, it's really really beautiful. Do 915 01:03:47.000 --> 01:03:51.280 you find not to interrupted? Do you find that in your discussions or arguments 916 01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:53.199 whatever you want to call them, that their discussions okay, yeah, loud 917 01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:58.440 discussions now argue of course, in your loud discussions, do you find that 918 01:03:58.519 --> 01:04:02.679 you recognize like, oh my gosh, I'm doing this behavior? This either 919 01:04:02.719 --> 01:04:05.440 I do. You'll call the other one out when they're doing that behavior. 920 01:04:05.519 --> 01:04:11.440 We certainly do. Somehow it stings more for me when Jess calls my behavior 921 01:04:11.480 --> 01:04:14.280 out shit because I don't want to be told what's up? No, because 922 01:04:14.320 --> 01:04:16.880 I certainly have the answers to my life totally figured out. Duh. So 923 01:04:16.920 --> 01:04:20.519 when Jess calls them out like stings even more. Good for you, Jess, 924 01:04:20.599 --> 01:04:23.599 Well, that's right, this is what I need. This is what 925 01:04:23.639 --> 01:04:29.719 a healthy relationship has is caring, committed, you know, support and calling 926 01:04:29.800 --> 01:04:32.199 people out on their bullshit. If you don't call it out festers, and 927 01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:34.719 then their resentment, and then we're keeping secrets, and then we're back to 928 01:04:34.760 --> 01:04:39.159 grief. You're right, you're right. She owns the False Church Wellness Center 929 01:04:39.559 --> 01:04:44.280 and the amazing group of therapists. Here we're in her office actually today, 930 01:04:44.320 --> 01:04:46.360 So thank you Jess for letting us steal it. Yep. And then she 931 01:04:46.400 --> 01:04:51.599 and I have purchased twenty six acres out in the wine country of Loudon County, 932 01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:55.559 so fun out there by the way west of DC about an hour and 933 01:04:55.599 --> 01:05:00.320 we have a wellness retreat that we call wine Very Wellness, and it's called 934 01:05:00.360 --> 01:05:05.400 Wineberry Wellness because we have wineberry vines all over the entire properties, your harptype 935 01:05:05.440 --> 01:05:12.760 property, and wineberries taste better than raspberries. The season is very short, 936 01:05:12.920 --> 01:05:16.039 so there it's like fireworks. They come very quickly. They're good and sweet 937 01:05:16.039 --> 01:05:17.639 when you get them, and then they're all of a sudden they're gone. 938 01:05:17.760 --> 01:05:20.280 You made jam or anything with them, you just make jam, wine, 939 01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:24.639 wine beer. We just put them, you know, eat them out of 940 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:27.519 the bowl. You can put them on strawberries. They're super super yummy. 941 01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:34.480 I foresee an annual Queer wineberry picking festival. Count me in for DC locals. 942 01:05:34.800 --> 01:05:40.400 Yes, need some wineberries on Queer property, but we have there's a 943 01:05:40.519 --> 01:05:43.079 niche for everything, absolutely, so we do. We do a treats out 944 01:05:43.119 --> 01:05:45.800 there. We do couples counseling, we do groups, small groups, larger 945 01:05:45.840 --> 01:05:49.119 groups, day day things. We're in the middle of amazing wineries. One 946 01:05:49.119 --> 01:05:53.760 of the best benefits of being an ex Mormon now is that my best friends 947 01:05:53.800 --> 01:05:57.639 are our best friends down the road another couple who are lesbians. They own 948 01:05:57.639 --> 01:06:00.559 a winery. Fuck. Yeah, and we've learned how to make wine. 949 01:06:00.519 --> 01:06:03.639 So yes, we've learned. We've learned. We're learning the fermentation process, 950 01:06:03.960 --> 01:06:09.480 the harvesting process, the bottling process, the tasting process. I'm about that 951 01:06:10.000 --> 01:06:15.920 taste. I'm learning about wine in ways that certainly Mormonism would never have allowed 952 01:06:15.920 --> 01:06:17.320 me to. So that's been lovey. We have wine in the sacrament. 953 01:06:17.320 --> 01:06:20.280 When you're a Mormon, you know, when you're drunk off of way, 954 01:06:20.400 --> 01:06:24.079 I would guarantee you there's not a liquor grape juice in this in the church 955 01:06:24.119 --> 01:06:28.199 on any given Sunday except for maybe sippy cups, maybe maybe when someone else 956 01:06:28.199 --> 01:06:31.199 brings in. Yeah. So we have the Wellness Retreat out there, and 957 01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:38.159 she has the Wellness Center here in Falls Church. And I am just thrilled 958 01:06:39.199 --> 01:06:44.480 that my life is full of joy and happiness and love with a lovely partner. 959 01:06:45.519 --> 01:06:48.880 And I'm thrilled that professionally, the things that I'm doing with my clients 960 01:06:49.159 --> 01:06:56.719 is so incredibly rewarding watching them grow and shift and change. Has been different 961 01:06:56.760 --> 01:06:59.960 population that I'm working with here. Okay, lots of queer and trans people, 962 01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:03.519 certainly, but lots of families, lots of couples, seeing lots and 963 01:07:03.559 --> 01:07:10.199 lots and lots of narcissistic abuse, recovery from the narcissist or from the from 964 01:07:10.239 --> 01:07:15.079 the partners victims. Do you have narcissists come in and say I'm a narcissist, 965 01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:18.400 come in with their partner, and through the counseling that I give them, 966 01:07:18.840 --> 01:07:27.039 their partner realizes that their other person is a narcissist. Seeing some ex 967 01:07:27.079 --> 01:07:30.840 Mormons, which is kind of cool. Have some ex Jewish people, have 968 01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:35.880 some X Evangelicals. Nice. So the ven diagram of my life does overlap 969 01:07:35.960 --> 01:07:40.280 tremendously with a lot of my clients, but in some cases not very much, 970 01:07:40.280 --> 01:07:45.159 which is also nice. But life for me. Of course, I 971 01:07:45.159 --> 01:07:48.719 miss Utah, the good parts of Utah. My kids are still there, 972 01:07:48.760 --> 01:07:54.320 whom I love, even though literally don't have a relationship with either of them 973 01:07:54.840 --> 01:08:00.079 or my extended family. But you know that's temporary, at least as far 974 01:08:00.079 --> 01:08:05.119 as I anticipate, you know, still looking forward rejoining with them. But 975 01:08:05.159 --> 01:08:09.519 in the meantime, you know, after picking up the cards of life, 976 01:08:09.639 --> 01:08:13.159 the hand that I've been dealt is still pretty damn good. I love it. 977 01:08:13.280 --> 01:08:15.880 Yeah, I love it. Thank you for asking, of course. 978 01:08:15.119 --> 01:08:18.119 Yeah, I love like I don't know. I love to see all my 979 01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:21.840 people happy. You and I Kimberly, we kind of we we we don't 980 01:08:21.880 --> 01:08:25.800 go back forever, but we go back a lot of years always, and 981 01:08:25.920 --> 01:08:28.720 to just see my friend by the way, he forced it on me, 982 01:08:28.960 --> 01:08:30.239 And that's fine. That those kind of people I love, because then I 983 01:08:30.279 --> 01:08:34.600 feel like I'm in high demand. It kind of feeds the ego love to 984 01:08:34.600 --> 01:08:41.199 be chased. Kidding c h A s ed Yeah, not c h A 985 01:08:41.399 --> 01:08:44.720 S t E. I was that kind of chas for way too long. 986 01:08:45.800 --> 01:08:47.760 Anyway. I love seeing like your life blossoming. Thank you. It's it's 987 01:08:47.840 --> 01:08:51.239 phenomenal. It's fun to be part of is there if people need to get 988 01:08:51.239 --> 01:08:56.119 a hold of the Wellness Center to like talk about therapy or anything. A 989 01:08:56.119 --> 01:08:59.720 website? What do you? Is there? Something? Wow? The wellness 990 01:08:59.720 --> 01:09:03.479 Center. I think it's false. Church Wellness dot Com happened to be actually 991 01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:06.800 looking at a brochure that says false church Wellness dot com. And if they 992 01:09:06.800 --> 01:09:10.760 want to learn more about the Winebery Wellness, they can follow us on Instagram 993 01:09:10.760 --> 01:09:14.760 at Wineberry Wellness. That's the tag. I love it. I love it. 994 01:09:14.880 --> 01:09:17.159 Y'all do good things. We're trying, and we're doing you do right, 995 01:09:17.279 --> 01:09:23.880 like Yoda says, do or not, there's try. I guess we'll 996 01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:27.159 wrap it up right there. I don't know. Steer clear of cults, 997 01:09:28.159 --> 01:09:31.159 we say that, yeah, if you can, if you can, clearly 998 01:09:31.199 --> 01:09:34.359 I couldn't. I mean the cult, but it was just hard to steer 999 01:09:34.399 --> 01:09:36.880 clear of it when you're born into it, yes, and your family's still 1000 01:09:36.880 --> 01:09:41.520 in it. But there's a way I have I whatever we're going over time 1001 01:09:41.520 --> 01:09:45.319 here, but I have come to a happy spot. After the funeral, 1002 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:48.039 I'm realized I'm at my happy spot. Who what I can do as far 1003 01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:51.359 as the cult is concerned. And I wasn't quite there yet because I didn't 1004 01:09:51.359 --> 01:09:54.239 know I was. I didn't know this ship was going to go down with 1005 01:09:54.319 --> 01:09:57.920 can I. I'm not supposed to touch sacred shit according to them, So 1006 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:02.680 yeah, I'll talk more about that on the next episode we cover with this, 1007 01:10:02.800 --> 01:10:06.319 But thank you for listening to me. Sure, all right, folks, 1008 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:14.000 that's it. Today's takeaway from me for this podcast was the following message, 1009 01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:19.359 It's just a hat, just a fucking hat, that's all, folks. 1010 01:10:23.079 --> 01:10:23.760 See you next time.