WEBVTT 1 00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:45.200 Hello, and welcome to Open minds UFO Radio. I am your host, 2 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:51.640 Alessandro Rojas, and we have with us helping us with the news all the 3 00:00:51.679 --> 00:00:59.320 way from Moscow, Russia. Sunny Moscow, Russia. We have Martin Suma 4 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:06.079 Shdshi Willis. I don't know what that means, but you're probably right. 5 00:01:06.760 --> 00:01:11.480 Hal it's supposedly. I probably completely said it wrong, but it's it's supposed 6 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:18.560 to be some kind of slang Russian term for crazy loco you use, I 7 00:01:18.640 --> 00:01:25.680 use word. I usually use what she after some things I've seen here. 8 00:01:25.719 --> 00:01:29.920 I should know that word. Has anybody yelled that to you? Sumach she? 9 00:01:30.840 --> 00:01:37.959 Not that I can remember, but it's very possible. Good. Yeah, 10 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:41.000 well, now you know if someone does what that means? Yeah, 11 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:46.560 okay, but how are things? You sound really good again? You sound 12 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:52.560 actually better than you do when we're recording your show because it's the middle of 13 00:01:52.599 --> 00:01:56.359 the night for you. Do you sound so tired? Yeah? You know 14 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:59.799 it's the uh yeah, it's the equipment, you know. I mean, 15 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:02.920 it's just amazing. But you know, Skype's really good here. Moscow, 16 00:02:02.959 --> 00:02:07.480 I have to say, is one of the most beautiful cities I've ever if 17 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:13.080 not the most beautiful city I've ever been. Really, the architecture is just 18 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:17.199 amazing in the early you know, the thirteen hundreds, you know, chapels 19 00:02:17.199 --> 00:02:21.439 in the Kremlin and all that went through, all that in the last few 20 00:02:21.520 --> 00:02:28.319 days and wow, it's just fabulous, fabulous, beautiful. How cool that 21 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:30.960 is interesting to hear, Man, I would love to see. There's a 22 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:36.360 lot of places I'd love to see. And you having said possibly the most 23 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.520 beautiful city you've ever seen, Man, that really puts Moscow up on the 24 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:45.599 list. What also puts Moscow up on the list for me is that of 25 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:50.400 all the towns in Russia, you can actually see our website in Moscow, 26 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:55.039 and you've had trouble other places. It is working coming in here. So 27 00:02:55.159 --> 00:03:00.840 it's not Joe blocked here. Good yeah, because for some reason we talked 28 00:03:00.840 --> 00:03:05.000 about this, some countries block us. But again it is a isp So 29 00:03:05.120 --> 00:03:08.400 if you're listening to this podcast from another country and you're like, eh, 30 00:03:08.560 --> 00:03:15.199 you know they black me here in this country, I don't know what accent 31 00:03:15.240 --> 00:03:17.000 that was. I kind of made it up. It's kind of an ambiguous 32 00:03:17.360 --> 00:03:23.560 foreigner accent. But if you you that is you with that weird accent making 33 00:03:23.639 --> 00:03:29.479 that comment then check with your ISP because it's the ISPs. Some of them 34 00:03:29.479 --> 00:03:34.439 out there block us for reasons unknown. Maybe they're afraid of the men in 35 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:38.840 black coming and get them, getting them if they look at UFO websites that 36 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:43.759 could be there everywhere. I do want to say, this city has twelve 37 00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.000 million people. You know, New York City is like, you know, 38 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.800 or eighty seven, I mean eight point seven million. There's twelve here. 39 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:58.479 It's unbelievable. So are people on top of each other though, like New 40 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:02.199 York or more spread out like an l spread out. Yeah, it's it's 41 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:08.360 hard to believe that there's that many people here. I'm in what's considered Moscow, 42 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:13.319 but not near the downtown. It's probably about fifteen miles to get downtown 43 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:15.800 from you know, Red Square from here, or maybe a little bit more, 44 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:23.800 maybe like twenty miles to Red Square. But the it's not there's hardly 45 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:28.360 any skyscrapers. It's just spread out. I just heard from a local person 46 00:04:28.399 --> 00:04:30.000 they said it takes you a day to drive through Moscow. I don't know 47 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:33.920 if that's true or not, but it is. It's there's these big, 48 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:39.439 huge apartment buildings with like thousands of people in them. It's amazing. How 49 00:04:39.480 --> 00:04:43.600 cool. That is amazing. And I saw on Facebook some of your pictures 50 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:46.759 that you have some pictures there. But that's really cool to here. It's 51 00:04:46.800 --> 00:04:53.639 really interesting to hear about, you know, other places in Moscow. So 52 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:59.160 cool. That is really cool. I had another Russian question for you, 53 00:04:59.240 --> 00:05:02.160 but I can't remember what it is, but so let's just kind of move 54 00:05:02.199 --> 00:05:06.360 on. Okay, let's talk about our guest. Our guest, as far 55 00:05:06.360 --> 00:05:10.040 as I know, I'm the first to have him on the podcast, and 56 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:13.959 I think after people hear the interview, everybody's going to want to have them 57 00:05:13.959 --> 00:05:19.399 on because he's cool. But his name is Finnian Handley and he is actually 58 00:05:19.959 --> 00:05:27.480 an admin for our Open minds UFO News facebook group. I didn't even know 59 00:05:27.600 --> 00:05:33.160 how he became an admin, to be honest, because you know, we 60 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:40.120 kind of inherited the admins from the old move On Facebook group for our group 61 00:05:40.560 --> 00:05:45.839 because they're just extremely talented. They're a great group of admins, and Karen 62 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:48.879 King kind of headed that up along with Richard Hoffman, who we had on 63 00:05:48.920 --> 00:05:55.000 the show not long ago. That was a great show too, and they 64 00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:59.319 kind of brought everybody over, which was great, and he came along because 65 00:05:59.319 --> 00:06:02.759 he was someone that they had identified as someone who could do a great job 66 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:09.279 at it, and he has done a great job, very grounded skeptical point 67 00:06:09.439 --> 00:06:14.480 of view, which I appreciate because I think it's important for us, you 68 00:06:14.519 --> 00:06:18.600 know what. You and I both have that aspect or perspective because we're looking 69 00:06:18.639 --> 00:06:25.879 for the truth. We just don't want to believe everything. And however, 70 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:32.399 he has had this amazing sighting that you know, I think he even talks 71 00:06:32.439 --> 00:06:36.600 about how it's just for a skeptic, it's just crazy that he could have 72 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:43.199 had such a weird sighting. So we talked to him about these sightings and 73 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.360 you know, his perspective and some of the news that he's come across and 74 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.480 the modern eufology and some of the hoaxers and stuff like that we have to 75 00:06:50.519 --> 00:06:55.279 watch out for. So that's what we talk about. He's in the UK, 76 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.879 so it's another international connection. So it's kind of fun. We're talking 77 00:06:58.879 --> 00:07:02.319 to you and Russia. We're getting our UFO news in Russia, and then 78 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:11.160 we're going to the UK to talk UFOs with a researcher UFO enthusiast out there. 79 00:07:11.680 --> 00:07:15.560 And I don't, by the way, using that word some people really 80 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:20.079 think that they hate that word UFO enthusiast, but I I don't. I 81 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:24.240 mean, when you're writing, it's an accurate word. You know, someone 82 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:30.000 is enthusiast enthusiastic about UFOs. I guess that's what I would be considered. 83 00:07:30.040 --> 00:07:32.240 Really Yeah, me too, I would say I am too. I'm not 84 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:36.360 really an activist and I'm not out there on the street, you know. 85 00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:41.199 I like, I think we are doing something to help get the word out 86 00:07:41.240 --> 00:07:49.120 and help hopefully, and I've heard that influence people to take the whole thing 87 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:55.240 more seriously. But yeah, I'm an enthusiast. Yeah, no, I 88 00:07:55.279 --> 00:08:00.160 think you know. It's it's good, like you just said, you all 89 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:03.360 to get feedback like I do about my show that you know, people are 90 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.399 saying thank you, you know, thank you for bringing these people to us 91 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:11.399 and talking about this and all that and not going off the fringe. Yeah. 92 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:16.600 So yeah, yeah, So I'm excited for this, uh in for 93 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:20.120 you all to get to know Finn. It's really cool stuff. And then 94 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:24.279 for those of you that are in the Open Mind UFO Facebook group, you'll 95 00:08:24.439 --> 00:08:30.480 recognize who he is and his sighting and you'll you'll know you know more about 96 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:35.279 him when you're in there interacting with him. Now about the group, it 97 00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:41.200 is a closed group, but if you want to join this Facebook group where 98 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:45.440 we just have more discussion. We have a lot of analysis of the UFO 99 00:08:45.519 --> 00:08:50.519 photos and videos that are posted. Mark D'Antonio, who is the mof on 100 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.720 photo analyst, is another admin for the group, and he's in there analyzing 101 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:58.759 so or Finn and other people who are very good at it. Now that 102 00:08:58.799 --> 00:09:05.480 you years of it has happened, but it's very respectful debate and discussion on 103 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:07.440 all of these topics. And that's the whole point. That's why it's a 104 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:13.039 closed group, is that if people break the rules such as being total jerks 105 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:18.000 or trolls or just you know, off topic. You know, we all 106 00:09:18.039 --> 00:09:22.360 know that on the internet there are just people who are not productive or friendly 107 00:09:22.399 --> 00:09:28.039 and just completely inappropriate. We those people get kicked out because this is a 108 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:35.440 safe space for us to discuss maturely and respectfully. Because we respectfully disagree on 109 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:39.720 stuff. What do we I mean, there's debating allowed, it's just not 110 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:45.799 disrespectful debating. What do we disagree on? Have we disagreed on something? 111 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:50.480 I'm sure we have. We have it's on show number two seventeen. Oh 112 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:56.039 yeah, no, that's when you called me that bad. I can't remember 113 00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:58.279 what it was, but yes, I do recall one show we did have 114 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:05.559 a you totally were uh we had totally opposite ideas, which is fine. 115 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.360 That was just one. Oh you know what I think it was on On 116 00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:13.519 one of those shows was the year end review where it's me, you and 117 00:10:13.600 --> 00:10:16.600 Lee. That's right, that's what That's what it was. I do remember 118 00:10:16.600 --> 00:10:18.480 that because there's always Steph, Lee and I disagree about on that show, 119 00:10:18.519 --> 00:10:22.240 and there's stuff that you and I disagreed about, but that's what's fun about 120 00:10:22.279 --> 00:10:26.240 that shows about the roswell slides bom bom bomb. Oh yeah, you think 121 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.879 they're real. No, No, don't go there, that's not true. 122 00:10:31.919 --> 00:10:37.320 Everyone don't don't know. I thought it was one of the most spectacular things 123 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:43.039 of the year, and you did not. That's oh yeah. I was 124 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:48.039 kind of being one of the crotchety, crotchety old ufoers who was like, 125 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.559 ah, we don't need to talk about this, but it was a significant 126 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:54.799 event, so yeah, and you and Lee were all like, yeah, 127 00:10:54.879 --> 00:10:58.279 this is crazy. Well, and Lee wanted to rail on everybody, so 128 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:01.480 which I can understand. So, yeah, go listen to the year review 129 00:11:01.519 --> 00:11:03.559 show if you want to hear about that. That was a lot of fun. 130 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:07.200 It was all right, Well, why don't we get to the UFO 131 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:13.039 news then? I'm ready? All right, Well this section you usually start 132 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.840 off, So what is the news story you would like to talk about? 133 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.879 I think I can figure out which one. I don't know what it is, 134 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.639 No, I know, Well, you can tell me if this is 135 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:28.080 the one you're thinking of. I have to say, if you're a skeptic 136 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.480 about UFOs, I would love for you to get involved and listen to the 137 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:41.360 tapes. And that as a nine one one operator tells describes the nineteen ninety 138 00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:46.519 four Michigan UFO flap, It's just one occurrence during the flap. Is that 139 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:48.159 the one you were thinking I was going to talk about? It's not because 140 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:54.679 I think I mentioned that last week, and that one was a little old 141 00:11:56.039 --> 00:12:00.279 from a while ago. However, we didn't discuss it at length last week. 142 00:12:00.840 --> 00:12:03.799 I don't think so, And you're right, so let's talk about it. 143 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.399 Go ahead, Okay, Well pardon me for that, Oh, no 144 00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:13.519 problem, Yeah, no, it's up. This happened back in March of 145 00:12:13.919 --> 00:12:18.279 nineteen ninety four and the recordings is what I would love the listener now to 146 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:24.080 take some time. It's a twenty three minute long recording, but well worth 147 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:26.679 it. And the reason I say it's well worth it is because, first 148 00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.399 of all, these people are calling in because they see these strange lights and 149 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:35.519 formations of lights and all that, and they're calling in, you know, 150 00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:39.600 pretty calm. There's no one like super excited, and they're just saying where 151 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.639 they are. And then they the dispatchressy's going to send an officer out. 152 00:12:43.279 --> 00:12:50.559 So what's really amazing is they then talk to the Weather Service bureau and the 153 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:52.960 guy says, no, I'm not seeing anything, let me check, and 154 00:12:52.000 --> 00:12:56.080 then he looks vertical on the radar and sees he says, wow, this 155 00:12:56.120 --> 00:13:00.240 is a huge return. And first of all, they start out by talking 156 00:13:00.799 --> 00:13:03.919 that, oh, yeah, it's just probably radio tower lights. And they're 157 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:07.679 now they're changed lights and they're blinking. People are just thinking that them, 158 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:11.320 you know, they start out totally skeptical, both of them themselves, the 159 00:13:11.399 --> 00:13:15.759 two people in the conversation, and then it goes into further and what am 160 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.399 I seeing here? I've never seen anything like this, and it's huge. 161 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.240 These are huge returns coming in. They're you know, fifty kilometers apart. 162 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:28.679 There's three of them. They're moving there, and they're moving and disappearing and 163 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:35.360 coming back. So anyway, it's a fantastic recording. And I'm sorry if 164 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:39.320 we covered this last week, but I sure hope that the listener will take 165 00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:43.720 the time go to Open Minds and look at this. It's titled listen nine 166 00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:50.159 to eleven nine one one Operator Tapes Describe described nineteen ninety four Michigan UFO flap. 167 00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:54.480 You go to that article and you listen to that tape and it is 168 00:13:54.600 --> 00:14:00.559 really something. And we actually reposted it as well on Friday because it was 169 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:07.360 part of our Open Mind UFO Report video news piece that we do for YouTube 170 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.000 on YouTube, So we covered that as well, and it's a bit of 171 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:20.159 a longer UFO report because we include some of the most exciting clips from those 172 00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:24.320 tapes and we have it translated so you can read what the people are saying. 173 00:14:24.919 --> 00:14:31.000 Because I agree with you, it's an incredible case. There were about 174 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:35.440 three hundred witnesses, including police officers. You know, even in the tapes, 175 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:39.320 you hear the dispatch saying, yeah, we have an officer reporting the 176 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:43.559 same thing that you're talking about on radar. You know three or four of 177 00:14:43.600 --> 00:14:48.720 these objects in the same area you're talking about, So you're right, it's 178 00:14:48.720 --> 00:14:52.480 so cool and that is the best part. You even have the radar guy 179 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.360 at one point saying, oh my god, you know, I mean really 180 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:00.120 excited. So yeah. On our Open Mind GUFO report, you can and 181 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:03.320 hear some of that too if you want just a summary of I think some 182 00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:05.720 of the best parts, but if you have the time, look at the 183 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.039 whole thing. And if you follow one of the links. This story was 184 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:16.159 posted by Roger Marsh because it was Moufon who posted these tapes, and there's 185 00:15:16.279 --> 00:15:20.919 a link in the story for a summation of the events, and I believe 186 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:28.559 it was even written by the Moufon Michigan chief investigator Daniel Snow, who took 187 00:15:28.559 --> 00:15:33.559 a harder look at this case recently. And there you will have a transcription 188 00:15:33.240 --> 00:15:37.200 of everything that was said, so it's a little helpful for parts that you 189 00:15:37.240 --> 00:15:41.360 can't read, or just if you want to remember, you know, some 190 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:43.639 of the more exciting parts or look for them. You could look in this 191 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:52.039 transcription that's on UFO casebook that's listed linked on our Openminds dot TV story. 192 00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.759 So yeah, I agree with you. Those tapes are so fun, They're 193 00:15:54.840 --> 00:16:02.559 so interesting, and you can hear the excitement of you know, these people 194 00:16:02.600 --> 00:16:07.200 who are seeing something weird. Yeah, they're totally skeptical at first, and 195 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.159 then uh get really excited about it. And you know, I feel like 196 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.120 I kind of failed you because this is kind of like a rerun of a 197 00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:19.440 rerun that you've been doing. So oh, sorry, stop it. No, 198 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:22.679 there's no problem. I mean, cases like this, are you kidding 199 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:29.720 there? The great cases are really exciting to talk about. So even if 200 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:33.519 you know there are parts of these great cases that we didn't talk about before, 201 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.000 it's fun to talk about them again. I mean we've covered a couple 202 00:16:37.000 --> 00:16:41.720 of times in Open Minds just because it's so exciting. So yeah, definitely, 203 00:16:41.759 --> 00:16:45.759 no problem, all right, no problem at all. So yeah, 204 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:49.159 great stuff. However, this is a story I thought you were going to 205 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.080 talk about because I know what it is. Yeah, you know what it 206 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:56.559 is. So you tricked me there, probably on purpose. You're probably were 207 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:57.679 like, I want to not choose that one, just to trick them. 208 00:16:57.919 --> 00:17:04.119 But this one, hopefully we'll talk about this one again next week, you 209 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.839 know, because there are a lot of exciting pieces to this story. This 210 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:14.880 is a story that was written by Paul stone Hill, and actually a part 211 00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.680 of this he wrote us a story a few years ago that we posted on 212 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:26.039 the website that's also included in this story. It's called UFO sidings in the 213 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:30.839 seventeenth century. However, these sightings that he's talking about center on the European 214 00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:38.519 Russia area, so parts of Russia that are near Europe. You know, 215 00:17:38.599 --> 00:17:42.079 some of these countries used to be part of Russia and they no longer are. 216 00:17:42.640 --> 00:17:48.480 But one of those countries in particular that he talks about is Georgia. 217 00:17:48.519 --> 00:17:55.240 But what's great and what is so fun about Paul posting this story. By 218 00:17:55.279 --> 00:18:00.799 the way, Paul stone Hill is a Russian UFO expert and he and Philip 219 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:06.039 Mantle just posted a new book. They just got this done and you can 220 00:18:06.119 --> 00:18:10.319 I've posted something about it on our Facebook. We'll have Paul on to talk 221 00:18:10.359 --> 00:18:15.440 about it some more. But Underwater UFO cases they wrote a book on recently 222 00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:22.160 from Russia, so that's really interesting stuff. But yeah, these stories are 223 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.599 really fun, especially to think of you out there in Russia. But the 224 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:30.880 history, I mean, when you read these stories, the history of the 225 00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:37.119 area that you're in and that whole you know, Eastern Europe area we are 226 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:41.920 not as familiar with. We know a lot more about Western Europe because our 227 00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.960 history is tied to that, and Americans usually don't care about the history of 228 00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:52.039 other people or other countries so much, it seems, but the history is 229 00:18:52.079 --> 00:18:56.200 so rich and you get to see some of that in this story. So 230 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:02.920 you see a kremlin in a town called Vla. Hopefully I'm saying it right, 231 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:06.640 but it is near It's pretty good, thank you. It is near 232 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.519 this lake called robo Zero Lake. And the reason I'm bringing this up is 233 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.960 because this is one of the most exciting and fun stories of the whole of 234 00:19:17.000 --> 00:19:21.079 the story. And this is a very big sighting. I guess it's one 235 00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:27.400 of the most famous ones out there in Russia where in the late sixteen hundreds 236 00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:33.640 sixteen sixty three to be exact, there was a ball of light that was 237 00:19:33.720 --> 00:19:38.960 seen over a lake, this lake, this robo Zero Lake, and there 238 00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:44.880 were tons of people around who witness this. This ball, I guess was 239 00:19:44.920 --> 00:19:48.559 emitting this blue smoke. These guys rowed up to it, but it was 240 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:55.440 so hot that they had to get back. It beamed these lights down into 241 00:19:55.519 --> 00:19:59.559 the water, and the guys in the boat said they could see the fish 242 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:03.559 under the water kind of scurry away from this light. It was so bright 243 00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:06.039 they could see all the way that the light was going all the way to 244 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:14.039 the uh to the to the lake bed, and just this incredible sighting and 245 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:19.559 that this thing then flew off. But what the pictures there. This story 246 00:20:19.599 --> 00:20:23.279 has been written up in magazines in Russia, and so you have a couple 247 00:20:23.359 --> 00:20:30.680 pieces of art out there that kind of depict this siding, and they're really 248 00:20:30.920 --> 00:20:36.519 cool paintings or pictures, and I included those in the story. Uh, 249 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:38.279 so you can get a sense of what it was like out there. They 250 00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:45.279 even have kind of the Kremlin in the background one of them. But it 251 00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:52.200 it reminds me of the giant orb that they saw the Allegash guys say they 252 00:20:52.359 --> 00:20:56.359 saw in Maine. So you might remember this story. A few months ago, 253 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.880 we put out a documentary kind of on this story where we edited together 254 00:21:00.079 --> 00:21:04.720 interviews with these guys and this incredible sighting they had in the seventies and Aligash, 255 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:08.880 Maine. But it was a giant orb like this and over the water 256 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.480 over this lake, so really cool sightings. It's a great story. Yeah, 257 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:19.559 I love this one. I did too. I really wanted to do 258 00:21:19.640 --> 00:21:22.400 it, but then I wanted to trick you by doing that other one. 259 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:27.000 Yeah. Yeah, well no, it's I just was looking through the artwork. 260 00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:32.200 It is pretty amazing. Yeah, really cool stuff. And it's neat, 261 00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:36.480 you know, to hear about these popular stories elsewhere, because of of 262 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.119 course, we have Phoenix Lights, we have Roswell, we have the big 263 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:45.920 stuff that we're into out here, so it's interesting to know what other countries 264 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:49.440 are looking at as their kind of landmark cases, and this is one of 265 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:55.240 them out there. So yeah, maybe when you see some people out there, 266 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:59.519 if you want to start conversation, you can just be like UFO Robo 267 00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:04.759 Zero Lake Big UFO and they'll go oh yeah yeah, and then you'll you 268 00:22:04.799 --> 00:22:10.720 know, become buddies. Well you know, that's there's just a handful of 269 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:15.160 sightings that you hear about that go back that many years, you know, 270 00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:18.680 just a few of them, and this this is a yeah, a major 271 00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:22.799 one. Yeah. Paul Stonehill does some great stuff. His stuff is so 272 00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:26.839 interesting, so yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. We'll have him 273 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:32.240 on the show here soon. But yeah, I've got luckily right now, 274 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.880 I have a lot of people booked in everything, so so it's been going 275 00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:38.799 easier. You know, sometimes it's kind of hard to find guests or you 276 00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:42.920 kind of struggle, and I get so busy that sometimes it's hard to get 277 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:47.759 out there and find the people. So but that's really cool. So I 278 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:52.480 have one more story I want to talk about. Yeah, and some people 279 00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:55.920 have pointed out and maybe I could have come up with a better headline, 280 00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:57.720 but I don't know. Headlines can get kind of hard when you want to 281 00:22:57.720 --> 00:23:03.839 have him short, not too long. So here's the headline. Researcher receives 282 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:11.799 FAA's latest UFO reporting procedures. Some people pointed out that, well, big 283 00:23:11.799 --> 00:23:14.960 deal, you can find those online, which is true. You can. 284 00:23:15.559 --> 00:23:23.480 However, if you read the story, and even if you read the top 285 00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.400 thing I wrote, like my first sentence is, while searching for the Federal 286 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:33.160 Aviation Administration's UFO files, a researcher using the Freedom of Information Act recently received 287 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:37.799 the FA's procedures for taking UFO blah blah blah, blah blah blah. That's 288 00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:44.119 not interesting either. The interesting part when you read the story, and that's 289 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.039 what a lot of people don't do these days is read stories. They just 290 00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:51.839 read the headlines. But is that they told him? So he put in 291 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:57.079 a FOYA saying I would like all of your UFO files. FAA. They 292 00:23:57.119 --> 00:24:00.839 replied and said, okay, here you go, And all they sent him 293 00:24:00.920 --> 00:24:08.240 were two pages of their manual that reviewed UFOs, which is their reporting procedures. 294 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:14.759 And according to them, that's all of their UFO files. And that's 295 00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:19.759 the interesting part that is bogus, quite frankly, is that that supposedly is 296 00:24:19.799 --> 00:24:26.480 all they have, when we know they have a lot more UFO incidents that 297 00:24:26.480 --> 00:24:30.559 they are aware of and had something to do with. So at the end 298 00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.599 of the story, I review and I have a couple of videos related to 299 00:24:36.119 --> 00:24:41.119 one of those incidents, perhaps the most famous and most significant, which is 300 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:51.480 the Chicago o'hareo. Yeah, it's because you're you're a smart dude seventeen exactly 301 00:24:51.559 --> 00:24:55.400 Gate C seventeen. I didn't even include the picture. I should have inserted 302 00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:57.799 my picture because I last time I was in the Chicago Hair Airport, I 303 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:03.559 took a picture of Kates seventeen too. I usually put them in the in 304 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.240 here, but I didn't. But anyway, if you're not aware of this. 305 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:11.359 John Hilkovich, he's a writer for the Chicago Tribune. He wrote about 306 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:15.759 this story and really made it. When he wrote his story, he said 307 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:18.400 at the time, and you can see in these videos that it was the 308 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:25.519 biggest story they had ever had. People were so interested because these pilots and 309 00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:33.599 these United Airlines personnel at gay C seventeen saw this dishaped UFO hovering over the 310 00:25:33.680 --> 00:25:38.160 gate for a period of time before shooting straight up through the clouds. There 311 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:44.920 was cloud covers and it left a hole in the clouds that eventually filled. 312 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:48.240 But you know, scientists had talked about how it would have had to have 313 00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:52.480 been a very hot object to melt the clouds like that, because you know, 314 00:25:52.559 --> 00:25:56.319 if you're flying through the clouds, it's not like they part or a 315 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:00.759 stage. You just kind of they just kind of go around you inane and 316 00:26:00.799 --> 00:26:07.200 you don't really affect the clouds. But yeah, so it's a great UFO 317 00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:11.640 sighting. The FAA kind of stonewalled Hilkovich when he looked into it. People 318 00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:15.839 they were saying in Yonia did too. They denied that it happened at all. 319 00:26:15.920 --> 00:26:21.440 But he had these pilots and these firsthand witnesses. He did a FOIA 320 00:26:21.759 --> 00:26:26.079 and he got some FA documents where they admitted they did get a report on 321 00:26:26.119 --> 00:26:29.359 this. They said, well, we think it might be weather phenomena, 322 00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:33.839 but that obviously wasn't the case. And you know, in these videos, 323 00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:37.920 Hilkovic kind of talks about that as well. But it's interesting kind of the 324 00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:42.000 stonewalling that he got and then he finally got some information later on. But 325 00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:48.480 it really seems like they're not sharing everything they truly do have. And Greenwald 326 00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.279 I asked him some questions about it that I included in the story. I 327 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:57.519 think his insight is really interesting. And one of the things he also talked 328 00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:03.440 about was how difficult it is to get information out of the FAA because they 329 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:07.039 try to You have to go to every FAA station, of which there are 330 00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:11.160 many of them, because they don't keep all the files in one place. 331 00:27:11.119 --> 00:27:15.400 And so yeah, I talked to them about all all of that in the 332 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:21.759 short interview in this story. But that's what's interesting is that they're claiming these 333 00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:26.480 are their only UFO files. That is pretty funny. Actually, yeah, 334 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:36.000 wow, what about bung holes. I guess what were you going to say? 335 00:27:36.559 --> 00:27:38.000 I was going to say, this is a g rated show and you're 336 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:45.640 right on the fringe of yeah that was close. Yeah, but yeah, 337 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.440 so hopefully if you're listening and the kids in the bank, he's like, 338 00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:53.960 aha, bung hole, bunghole. So but I guess the other interesting part 339 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:59.559 is that for those who are not aware, those of us who are have 340 00:28:00.079 --> 00:28:04.680 actually called the FA with UFO issues investigating these sorts of things already know. 341 00:28:06.039 --> 00:28:11.720 But although it's a little different, and I do review this right now, 342 00:28:11.759 --> 00:28:15.920 they say that if you have a UFO report, you should contact a data 343 00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:23.799 collection center such as the National UFO Reporting Center, and if the current concern 344 00:28:23.920 --> 00:28:30.119 is expressed that life or property might be endangered, report the activity to the 345 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:33.559 local law enforcement. So they don't care, essentially is what they're saying. 346 00:28:33.640 --> 00:28:38.480 Call someone else called Newfork, who's you know, it's a great group. 347 00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:42.440 I definitely would recommend people to let Newfork know if you have a UFO siding. 348 00:28:42.799 --> 00:28:47.880 But that's a one man show. That's one guy taking phone calls right 349 00:28:48.039 --> 00:28:52.839 with a website updating this website on siting, So of course he can't do 350 00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:56.920 investigations or it's really not going to go anywhere. Best you know, you 351 00:28:56.960 --> 00:29:02.759 can contact moufon. I'll do some more investigation, but it's not like they're 352 00:29:02.759 --> 00:29:07.240 an official organization. The other group who used to be listed was Robert Bigelow's 353 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:15.039 group and part of Bigelow Aerospace, but he's really busy, of course with 354 00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.839 his other work, including he's got right now, you know, this attachment 355 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:26.599 to the International Space Station that they're testing inflatable unit there. Yeah, exactly, 356 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:30.240 the inflatable unit. So I don't even know if they're doing a lot 357 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:36.440 of paranormal stuff. But after I posted my story, one of the researchers 358 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:38.960 out there, Sheppard Johnson, he's on Facebook a lot. He actually called 359 00:29:40.000 --> 00:29:45.440 the Bigelow hotline and they answered, so he the Bigelow still has their kind 360 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:53.039 of paranormal UFO hotline open, but so, but they're not listed anymore on 361 00:29:53.160 --> 00:29:56.640 here. But yeah, it's so frustrating that if you call the FA saying, 362 00:29:56.960 --> 00:30:00.759 hey, there's something weird in the sky, I don't know what this 363 00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:03.519 is, instead of having any concern for the safety of the people in the 364 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.680 air, they're gonna say, call someone else. Yeah, you would think 365 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.880 there would have to be some that they would just have to take, like 366 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.839 if it was in you know, airspace, protected airspace or something like that. 367 00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:19.920 You would think so or near you know, near an airport, like 368 00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:23.039 the like you said, the old hair, Yeah, citing, you know, 369 00:30:23.160 --> 00:30:27.799 something like that. When it's endangered, endangering you know, air traffic. 370 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:33.000 I can't see how they could shy away from it, right, And 371 00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:37.960 in this Chicago O'Hair incident, they did delay flights from that gate for a 372 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:42.240 period of time. So yeah, it's it's really frustrating, it's kind of 373 00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:49.359 silly, it's perplexing. And yeah, so this is a good example though, 374 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:53.599 this story, which is just don't read the headline, get into the 375 00:30:53.720 --> 00:31:04.119 story. But maybe I could have written something more exciting like FAA hiding Yeah, 376 00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:12.400 oh, bungholes at FAA hiding UFO secrets. That might have been Yeah, 377 00:31:12.519 --> 00:31:17.559 that'll go viral. Yeah, you're right, Oh well next time. 378 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.559 All right, that's it for the news that I have. Of course, 379 00:31:21.559 --> 00:31:25.640 we have a lot more news every day we're posting something. Roger has a 380 00:31:25.640 --> 00:31:29.720 lot more moufon stories up on the site, some of them interesting, such 381 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.039 as this guy you know, saying that he remembered in the past some helicopters 382 00:31:33.160 --> 00:31:38.559 escorting a cigar shaped UFOs. Also, somebody seeing a triangular ufon near an 383 00:31:38.559 --> 00:31:45.880 air Force base. So lots of Air Force military type sightings recently. So 384 00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.559 yeah, and we have a Portuguese pilot who said he had seen some things 385 00:31:51.599 --> 00:31:55.720 also, So a lot of reports up there on the side at Openminds dot 386 00:31:55.799 --> 00:31:59.799 Tv. Was there any more news you wanted to mention my friend? No, 387 00:32:00.039 --> 00:32:01.400 that's good. Yeah, there is a lot. Notice, there is 388 00:32:01.440 --> 00:32:06.680 a lot of news on your site. That's it for me across the sea. 389 00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:09.880 Oh that run, that's nice. I know that was an accident. 390 00:32:10.160 --> 00:32:15.759 Yeah, all right, Well, thanks for joining us once again, Martin. 391 00:32:15.880 --> 00:32:22.880 You'll be safe over there in Russia and have fun in Moscow post some 392 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:27.359 more of those beautiful pictures. I will, all right, And I can't 393 00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:30.160 wait to hear the interview. I can't wait to hear that guy's sighting. 394 00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.960 Yeah, it's really interesting. So why don't we go ahead and get into 395 00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:38.359 that and let's talk to Finian. I am very excited to have on the 396 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:43.920 show. Finian Handly, Hello, Hey, how are you doing good? 397 00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:47.519 How are you? Yeah? I'm good good. So it's almost like, 398 00:32:47.839 --> 00:32:52.920 well, it is late at night there, and why don't you tell everybody 399 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:57.640 where you're at. I'm in Monmouth, little town just on the border of 400 00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:01.640 Wales and England. Yeah, a really nice little place, not that big, 401 00:33:01.720 --> 00:33:06.039 not much going on, but nice if you like the countryside and walks 402 00:33:06.039 --> 00:33:07.640 in the countryside and that sort of thing. I love that, man, 403 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:12.240 I would love to visit there one day. I'll bet it's gorgeous. It 404 00:33:12.279 --> 00:33:15.359 is. Yeah, it's lovely. And if you're there, you've got to 405 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.599 be careful because I know I have to be very careful when I'm writing not 406 00:33:17.799 --> 00:33:24.799 to call a Welsh person English. Oh yeah, it's funny because this is 407 00:33:24.799 --> 00:33:28.599 a border town. It's a you got a funny mixture of people. You 408 00:33:28.680 --> 00:33:32.839 get the occasional person who actually speaks Welsh, but that's pretty rare. But 409 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:35.640 yeah, yeah, it's one of those things. You do want to be 410 00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:40.039 careful. They don't like that, no, But otherwise, I mean, 411 00:33:40.960 --> 00:33:45.480 there are no sin sure, they're on the border. It's not dangerous. 412 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:51.480 There's no sort of violence happening between the Welsh and the English. That we're 413 00:33:51.599 --> 00:33:54.240 out of Europe thankfully. I think that's a thing of the past. Now. 414 00:33:54.279 --> 00:33:58.400 Yeah, it's all pretty calm good. That's a very good thing. 415 00:33:58.839 --> 00:34:02.119 There's enough fight and go on out there. Indeed, yeah, Jo, 416 00:34:02.200 --> 00:34:07.480 and maybe we'll get into some of that, because there have been some things 417 00:34:07.480 --> 00:34:10.039 that just you know, have been posted today. And I know you're on 418 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:17.000 top of everything because you administer the open mind UFO group, and I guess 419 00:34:17.039 --> 00:34:21.920 how did that come about? And do you administer other Facebook groups as well. 420 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:28.360 I'm just trying to think. I don't think I'm an admin on any 421 00:34:28.400 --> 00:34:30.840 other groups at the moment, and I'm not active on the open minds one, 422 00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:35.079 but I try and help out where I can, just because I figure 423 00:34:35.079 --> 00:34:40.280 I've been interested in this since I mean not as long as many researchers, 424 00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:45.199 but since about two thousand and seven, I've been looking into this, and 425 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:51.199 I've come across so many kind of like hoaxes and videos which are obviously computer 426 00:34:51.280 --> 00:34:52.639 graphics and that sort of thing. And I've got a little bit of a 427 00:34:52.679 --> 00:34:57.960 background which helps me spot some of those things. So I help out on 428 00:34:58.000 --> 00:35:02.320 some discussion boards just trying to give I give my opinion on whether things are 429 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:06.800 hoaxes or not, because there are so many of them going around that Unfortunately, 430 00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:08.760 a lot of people get into this and they fall for it. They 431 00:35:08.760 --> 00:35:12.559 fall for stuff because they don't know what to look for. So I'm one 432 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:16.880 of those people that tries to tries to trust to I don't know it, 433 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:24.280 tries to stay grounded in this very confusing and controversial subject because I'm from after 434 00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.320 my own experience, I know there's definitely something real going on, something unexplained. 435 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.480 But it also seems that because this subject has been going for so long, 436 00:35:34.800 --> 00:35:38.880 it's had a long time to build up a kind of reputation of you 437 00:35:38.880 --> 00:35:42.400 know, hoaxes, people trying to make money, people just trying to get 438 00:35:42.440 --> 00:35:45.519 attention, and now with YouTube it's got even worse, where people can make 439 00:35:45.559 --> 00:35:52.639 a pretty good living if they can create the right hoax and get it to 440 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:54.280 go viral. And there are several, as we all know they are, 441 00:35:54.400 --> 00:36:00.800 like Secure Team ten and channels like that, who are regularly coming up with 442 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:06.719 hoaxes, and I just find that, I don't know, it's quite frustrating 443 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:09.039 to watch when you know that there is definitely something real going on with the 444 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:15.000 UFOs and then you see all these hoaxes polluting the whole arena. So yeah, 445 00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:19.960 occasionally I like to to kind of speak out and say when I think 446 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:23.800 something's a hoax or not, yeah, which is helpful. And we'll get 447 00:36:23.840 --> 00:36:28.559 into some of those hoax sites, because I think that'll be interesting, and 448 00:36:28.719 --> 00:36:31.039 I think that the listeners for the most part, are aware. But it's 449 00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:37.679 always good to remind people and to talk about this because your UK tabloids have 450 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:43.559 gone haywire with some of these hoax sites. But we'll talk about that, 451 00:36:43.639 --> 00:36:46.960 but first I want to get into your background and your experience. However, 452 00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:52.639 I did have a question for you. So I think you were. You 453 00:36:52.679 --> 00:37:00.519 came over as an admin from the move on Facebook group that was taken down, 454 00:37:00.559 --> 00:37:04.960 and then luckily, I thought you guys did such a great job because 455 00:37:05.000 --> 00:37:08.039 the admins there were so grounded that luckily, you know, a lot of 456 00:37:08.079 --> 00:37:13.159 you came over and have helped out with our group. How did you get 457 00:37:13.199 --> 00:37:16.559 involved with that Facebook group? I'm not. I don't think I was an 458 00:37:16.599 --> 00:37:19.920 admin there. If I were, well, you weren't. Well, yeah, 459 00:37:19.960 --> 00:37:22.039 if I was, it may have been for the last couple of weeks 460 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:23.119 or something. I don't think I was, though, But I'm good friends 461 00:37:23.119 --> 00:37:28.400 with Karen King, so that's how it happened. Yeah. I met Karen, 462 00:37:28.440 --> 00:37:30.719 I think through a different Facebook group to do with the UFOs, and 463 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.039 so I came over to the move on one just when all of that drama 464 00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:37.639 was happening just before they closed it, which was a bit of a shame. 465 00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:40.639 Oh that's funny. So that I didn't even know how you came to 466 00:37:42.159 --> 00:37:45.280 the group, and it was from Karen, and Karen did come from the 467 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:50.639 Facebook group move on one and Karen is one of the very active kind of 468 00:37:50.679 --> 00:37:54.559 the head admin almost over there at our group as well. Yeah, okay, 469 00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:59.639 that clears that up. So now I know, but you were talking 470 00:37:59.639 --> 00:38:05.159 about your own sighting. Tell us about that, right, So I first 471 00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.280 got well, when I was a kid, I remember seeing magazines photos of 472 00:38:08.400 --> 00:38:12.840 UFOs and finding it fascinating. When I was kind of seven, eight nine, 473 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.280 you know, we'd get these kind of unexplained mysteries magazines, and I 474 00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:21.599 remember seeing at least a couple of those and seeing UFO photographs and just finding 475 00:38:21.639 --> 00:38:25.760 the whole thing fascinating. But then I went, you know, for the 476 00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:30.639 next ten or so years not never thought about it at all, completely forgot 477 00:38:30.639 --> 00:38:37.440 about UFOs as a subject, and then so more than ten years. Then 478 00:38:37.440 --> 00:38:40.920 in two thousand and six, late two thousand and six, I was on 479 00:38:42.000 --> 00:38:44.800 YouTube board one day and I thought, I'll tell you what, I'll look 480 00:38:44.840 --> 00:38:49.519 back into UFOs see if there are any good videos about UFOs. So I 481 00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:53.559 went on there and just stumbled across the Disclosure Project. I watched the Disclosure 482 00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:58.440 Project, and I was quite shocked actually by the time I finished watching it, 483 00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:04.159 because I thought a lot of these guys look very credible, and so 484 00:39:04.199 --> 00:39:07.159 it just piqued my interest again. It made me get back into looking into 485 00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.480 the subject. And I remember the fact that my mum had told me when 486 00:39:10.519 --> 00:39:15.480 I was a little younger that she had seen a flying saucer landing in the 487 00:39:15.559 --> 00:39:21.280 park outside her parents' house, which is one of those it's a strange thing. 488 00:39:21.320 --> 00:39:22.639 When she told me about it, I I think I was about sixteen 489 00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:27.199 seventeen. I was not at the time, not into UFOs. So she 490 00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.639 mentioned this in passing and I was kind of surprised that she'd never mentioned it 491 00:39:30.679 --> 00:39:36.760 before, but we never went into any more detail about that. So having 492 00:39:36.760 --> 00:39:40.719 seen this Disclosure Project in two thousand and six, I just remembered that Muma 493 00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:44.000 told me that, and I thought, well, then there's definitely something to 494 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:45.840 it, because she wouldn't lie about it. She wasn't the sort of woman 495 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:50.400 to make things up. So it just really hit me that, oh, 496 00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:54.159 my goodness, I had totally forgotten about this subject, and now I'm going 497 00:39:54.159 --> 00:39:57.800 to get back into looking into it. So I did a lot of research 498 00:39:57.960 --> 00:40:01.880 on the Internet, which, as you know, is filled with problems because 499 00:40:01.920 --> 00:40:06.880 you can run across god knows how many websites which will claim to know what's 500 00:40:06.920 --> 00:40:10.079 going on, and there's a lot of disinformation out there. But I just 501 00:40:10.159 --> 00:40:15.599 absorbed stuff. Over the next nine months or so, I just was obsessed 502 00:40:15.639 --> 00:40:19.039 with the subject. So that was a two thousand and six two thousand and 503 00:40:19.079 --> 00:40:23.119 seven kind of mid two thousand and seven when I when I got to a 504 00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:28.760 point where I felt like I kind of had seen enough documentaries and things to 505 00:40:28.760 --> 00:40:31.599 get a rough idea that pretty much there is obviously something going on, there 506 00:40:31.679 --> 00:40:36.119 might be some kind of a cover up in place, and I just kind 507 00:40:36.159 --> 00:40:39.360 of felt like I've got a good idea about the general kind of the general 508 00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:43.920 area of what's going on in euthology. And then in late two thousand and 509 00:40:43.960 --> 00:40:46.920 seven, to my complete surprise, I was not expecting to ever see a 510 00:40:47.000 --> 00:40:51.880 UFO, although obviously one hopes one's going to get to see one. As 511 00:40:51.920 --> 00:40:54.760 I was driving up to my sister's house on a Thursday evening, I saw 512 00:40:55.639 --> 00:41:00.440 what looked like two balls of light dropping out of the cloud because it was 513 00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:02.960 quite thick cloud cover, and it looked and they just dropped out of the 514 00:41:02.960 --> 00:41:09.000 clouds and headed down and disappeared behind some rooftops. So I quickly pulled the 515 00:41:09.000 --> 00:41:12.800 car over because I was right next to my sister's house by this point. 516 00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:15.440 So I pulled the car over and parked it up in her car park, 517 00:41:15.880 --> 00:41:19.360 And as I got out of the car, I looked back towards where the 518 00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:25.440 where these balls of light had disappeared behind the rooftops. And it sounds bizarre. 519 00:41:25.519 --> 00:41:30.320 But the next thing I know, I see these two aircraft come flying 520 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:34.639 over very low, and the first thing that occurred to me was that they 521 00:41:34.639 --> 00:41:37.039 were too close together. They were literally only a couple of meters apart, 522 00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:44.639 and they looked like triangles. Now at the time, having still relatively new 523 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:50.840 to euthology, I hadn't heard much about black triangles, and I remember my 524 00:41:50.880 --> 00:41:53.760 instant reaction was, well, this is too good to be true. This 525 00:41:53.840 --> 00:41:58.039 can't be a UFO. That would be kind of silly. This must be 526 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.199 some kind of aircraft I've not seen before. So the balls of light I 527 00:42:02.280 --> 00:42:07.719 kind of blew that off. I just completely censored that from my memory and 528 00:42:07.079 --> 00:42:13.599 I never really thought about it again. But the craft, the aircraft, 529 00:42:13.840 --> 00:42:15.719 I was just really impressed with them. They were so low, they were 530 00:42:15.760 --> 00:42:22.679 really close together. I didn't hear any noise, but it just looked like 531 00:42:22.800 --> 00:42:28.599 two plain black triangles with white lights on each corner and the flashing white light 532 00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:31.559 in the center. And I think the flashing white lights were part of the 533 00:42:31.599 --> 00:42:35.840 reason why it was easier for me to just blow it off as being some 534 00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:40.320 kind of aircraft than I had misidentified it. So that was late two thousand 535 00:42:40.320 --> 00:42:45.960 and seven. Now, let me see, it was on the eighth of 536 00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:50.000 December in two thousand and seven, So I'd seen those and I thought, 537 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:52.880 Okay, maybe that was a UFO sighting. Maybe it wasn't, but I 538 00:42:52.920 --> 00:42:57.280 think you could safely say it was ambiguous. You could say it was an 539 00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:00.440 ambiguous sighting. Couldn't really tell for sure what I was looking at, and 540 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:05.760 I came away from it thinking i'd probably misidentified well, you know, i'd 541 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:10.239 probably seen an aircraft that I wasn't familiar with, So that's that sighting, 542 00:43:12.079 --> 00:43:15.440 and I kind of thought that was it. If it was a UFO, 543 00:43:15.639 --> 00:43:17.679 you know, you don't expect to ever see one again. But then the 544 00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:22.199 following year, I had moved house and I was now living in month. 545 00:43:22.280 --> 00:43:25.039 Before I was living just outside month. Now I'd moved into town in two 546 00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:30.199 thousand and eight, and I just started working for a taxi company. So 547 00:43:30.280 --> 00:43:34.679 I was doing six days a week driving around town. And I know Monmuth 548 00:43:34.719 --> 00:43:37.880 really well because I've lived here my whole life. So it turned out to 549 00:43:37.920 --> 00:43:40.599 be a good job for me. And then come September, i'd been working 550 00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:44.480 with the taxis for a couple of months. It came to a Friday night 551 00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:46.840 on the twenty sixth of September two thousand and eight, I picked up a 552 00:43:46.840 --> 00:43:51.960 customer in the taxi from one of the local pubs because it was ab around 553 00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:55.440 ten o'clock at night. Can you still hear me? Okay, yes, 554 00:43:55.519 --> 00:43:59.159 I hear You're fine. Okay, Sorry, I've got a bit of an 555 00:43:59.159 --> 00:44:04.159 interference on this. And oh so, anyway, so I pick up a 556 00:44:04.159 --> 00:44:07.320 customer in the middle of town, and I'm heading up the dual carriageway heading 557 00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:12.679 out of Monmouth kind of in a northerly direction, and lo and behold, 558 00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:16.199 I see what looks like these two black triangles again in the same formation, 559 00:44:16.360 --> 00:44:22.559 in other words, really close together, just two or three meters apart, 560 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:25.400 and they seemed to be flying in the opposite direction to where I was going 561 00:44:25.480 --> 00:44:29.639 in the car. But this I found this quite disturbing at this point because 562 00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:30.920 I thought, this is the second time I've seen these things. I don't 563 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:35.480 know what they are, but they looked like they look like black triangles. 564 00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:40.639 So I actually pulled the car over as I put on it through the windscreen 565 00:44:40.639 --> 00:44:44.079 and I said to the gentleman who's with me, can you see that? 566 00:44:44.320 --> 00:44:45.400 And he looked through the windscreen looking up and he said, yeah, I 567 00:44:45.400 --> 00:44:47.440 can see that. And I was like, what the hell is that? 568 00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:51.280 And he said, I don't know. So I actually got out of the 569 00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.119 car and I watched them disappear over the hill, heading in the opposite direction 570 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.840 to where I was going, and I just thought, Wow, this is 571 00:44:58.880 --> 00:45:00.440 weird. I've seen these things two times. I don't know what they are, 572 00:45:00.639 --> 00:45:07.159 but I think they're UFOs. So I dropped him off and I was 573 00:45:07.920 --> 00:45:12.159 on my way back into Monmouth to pick another customer up. Waited for the 574 00:45:12.199 --> 00:45:14.840 customer for about ten fifteen minutes. He didn't turn up, so I phoned 575 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:17.360 up my boss. My boss said, head back into Monmoth and pick up 576 00:45:17.519 --> 00:45:22.159 a regular customer we've got who we always pick up at ten thirty on a 577 00:45:22.159 --> 00:45:25.440 Friday night. So I headed down back down the dual carriageway towards this guy's 578 00:45:25.480 --> 00:45:29.920 house. And as I came back through Monmuth, you have to stop at 579 00:45:29.960 --> 00:45:32.639 some traffic lights. I stopped at these traffic lights, and as I looked 580 00:45:32.639 --> 00:45:37.320 over looked ahead of me, I saw over to the right hand side of 581 00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:42.119 the dual carriageway, just next to these trees, which sitting right next to 582 00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:46.440 the to the road, there were these two bowls of light hovering above these 583 00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:49.880 trees. And at this point I now started, you know, you can 584 00:45:49.920 --> 00:45:53.320 imagine I was kind of swearing, kind of swearing openly, even though there 585 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:58.440 was no one in the car with me. And it became quite clear at 586 00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:04.199 this point that I was seeing these again. So the lights turned green and 587 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.679 I started to pull away from the lights. At this point, I was 588 00:46:07.760 --> 00:46:10.639 maybe one hundred and fifty meters from the balls of light, so I started 589 00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.159 to drive towards them, slowed the car down, wound down the window. 590 00:46:15.239 --> 00:46:19.639 So this wasn't some kind of reflection, and I was just looking out of 591 00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:22.960 the window directly at these two balls of light as I drove past them. 592 00:46:22.280 --> 00:46:27.880 Each one was about the size of a little larger than a basketball. The 593 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:32.960 one was hovering just above the other, and it was so close and so 594 00:46:34.159 --> 00:46:37.960 unambiguous. Alejandro, it was this most strange, bizarre moment of my life. 595 00:46:38.840 --> 00:46:45.280 I was never expecting to see a UFO, let alone see these bizarre 596 00:46:45.400 --> 00:46:50.400 UFOs at such a close proximity. It was quite disturbing, and I actually 597 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:53.559 wanted to get some distance from them because they were kind of fizzing. It 598 00:46:53.599 --> 00:46:57.599 was like they were full of energy and they were about to pop. But 599 00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:05.000 they were amber colored balls, perfectly shaped balls of light, and the lower 600 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:08.360 one had a spike sticking out of it. You know, it sounds bizarre 601 00:47:08.480 --> 00:47:14.480 enough, but you know, this detail was just pretty crazy. So I'm 602 00:47:14.519 --> 00:47:16.360 looking at this spike sticking out the right hand side, and it was actually 603 00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:22.079 getting longer, and I just felt like they were going to explode. I 604 00:47:22.159 --> 00:47:24.119 felt really unsafe, so I carried on driving for a couple of one hundred 605 00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:30.039 meters and pulled over in this slip road which which comes off the motorway. 606 00:47:30.199 --> 00:47:34.480 So I pulled over and this whole thing, I've worked it out. Took 607 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.159 about fifteen seconds for me to carry on driving from where I saw these orbs 608 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:40.039 to where I pulled over and got out of the car. And in that 609 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:44.440 time, I was concentrating on pulling over right and not crashing the car, 610 00:47:45.199 --> 00:47:49.199 so I had to take my eyes off these balls of light. So I'm 611 00:47:49.239 --> 00:47:52.199 so I drove, drove to the lay by, pulled over, got out 612 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.119 of the car. I'm standing in the middle of the road. Now there's 613 00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:58.519 no one, no other cars on the road because it was late on a 614 00:47:58.519 --> 00:48:01.119 Friday night, And I turned around to look towards where the balls of light 615 00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:07.079 had been, and now, bizarrely, there are these two in exactly the 616 00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:10.719 same place where the balls of light were. There are now two black triangles 617 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:16.320 hovering about three or four meters above the tree tops. It was like something 618 00:48:16.320 --> 00:48:21.440 out of a Steven Spielberg movie. It was absolutely it was ridiculous. These 619 00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:27.280 two aircraft. They looked futuristic, they looked really really they just looked incredible. 620 00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:30.920 I don't know if you've ever been to an air show and you've seen 621 00:48:30.480 --> 00:48:37.920 like a stealth bomber close up, it was kind of you get that feeling 622 00:48:37.920 --> 00:48:40.280 of awe, that wow, that's an incredible piece of kit that someone has 623 00:48:40.320 --> 00:48:44.639 made there, that someone's constructed. And I got this same impression from these 624 00:48:44.639 --> 00:48:47.440 black triangles. I was just in awe. Not only that they were hovering 625 00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:52.360 above the tree tops without making any noise, but they were so large and 626 00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:55.960 they just looked absolutely beautiful. About how far do you think they were from 627 00:48:57.039 --> 00:49:01.280 you at that point? I've managed to work it out on Google Earth because 628 00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:05.960 I know the exact tree that they were hovering above because of the shape of 629 00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:07.960 it, and I know exactly where this slip road is. So I've gone 630 00:49:07.960 --> 00:49:10.440 on to Google Earth and I've worked it out. It's exactly two hundred and 631 00:49:10.480 --> 00:49:14.960 fifty meters. So I stood about two hundred and fifty meters away from these 632 00:49:15.000 --> 00:49:20.440 triangles, and so they were hovering above the trees, side by side now, 633 00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:25.239 and I watched them for about five seconds before they started to slowly move 634 00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:30.199 across the motorway. They both moved at exactly the same time, and they 635 00:49:30.239 --> 00:49:36.599 were moving at walking pace, incredibly slowly, and I just remember standing there 636 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:43.440 swearing, but I didn't believe what I was looking at. I'm sure you've 637 00:49:43.440 --> 00:49:46.360 been asked this question, where was your phone? Did you try to take 638 00:49:46.400 --> 00:49:52.960 a picture? Yeah, this is one of those I mean, it's the 639 00:49:53.039 --> 00:49:58.559 great question of youos it? Why didn't you get a good photo? Well, 640 00:49:59.440 --> 00:50:02.880 I've got several kind of excuses. The first one is that because I've 641 00:50:02.880 --> 00:50:07.239 been living in the country where there was no phone signal before I moved to 642 00:50:07.320 --> 00:50:13.000 Monmouth. When I did finally move to Monmoth and I got this job with 643 00:50:13.079 --> 00:50:15.960 the taxi firm, I had to buy my first mobile phone. Now, 644 00:50:15.000 --> 00:50:17.599 for a lot of people in two thousand and eight, they're probably thinking, 645 00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:20.519 well, I've had a mobile phone for years by then. Well, for 646 00:50:20.599 --> 00:50:24.440 me, this was my first mobile phone, so I wasn't kind of familiar 647 00:50:24.679 --> 00:50:28.519 or used to the idea that I was now carrying a camera around with me 648 00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:32.800 as well. So the first thing is that I just didn't didn't think about 649 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:37.400 the fact that I had a camera on me. But the second thing is 650 00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:44.559 that if you see something absolutely incredible that you're not expecting to see and it 651 00:50:44.679 --> 00:50:51.679 actually shocks you, and in my case, my instinctive reaction was to just 652 00:50:52.360 --> 00:50:55.440 not take my eyes off these ufhones. I just did not want to miss 653 00:50:55.440 --> 00:50:59.400 a thing, and had I thought, oh yeah, I'll get my camera 654 00:50:59.440 --> 00:51:02.159 out. Then that would that would have meant looking at the camera, you 655 00:51:02.199 --> 00:51:06.320 know, pressing it on button and a soo many things could have happened where 656 00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:08.400 I could have missed what was going on, And honestly, it was much 657 00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:14.400 more important to me to see these things for myself and to not miss a 658 00:51:14.440 --> 00:51:16.480 second of it. Then there was no thought in my head thinking, Oh, 659 00:51:16.480 --> 00:51:19.800 I need to be able to prove this to someone later on down the 660 00:51:19.800 --> 00:51:22.280 line. Wouldn't it be amazing to be able to prove it. I didn't 661 00:51:22.280 --> 00:51:24.360 have time to think any of those thoughts. I was just thinking, Oh 662 00:51:24.400 --> 00:51:28.199 my god, what the hell is that I can't you know, I don't 663 00:51:28.199 --> 00:51:30.440 want to miss a second of this. That's a good way to put it, 664 00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:36.920 because I've had that same a similar experience with I think the best sighting 665 00:51:37.039 --> 00:51:43.039 I had that I might have been able to capture on camera, but I 666 00:51:43.159 --> 00:51:47.320 had the same thing going on in my head that you just described. Yeah, 667 00:51:47.480 --> 00:51:51.440 I mean, I've because I live in the near a place called the 668 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:54.679 Forest of Dean. I've been driving my car at night and suddenly I come 669 00:51:54.719 --> 00:52:00.159 across a huge In two different occasions, two different occasions, I've met deer 670 00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:05.639 on the roads, which are quite rare to see a wild deer. So 671 00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:08.320 I've been driving and I've you know, suddenly come across a huge deer with 672 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:12.880 these huge antlers, and you wind your window down and all you're thinking is, 673 00:52:12.920 --> 00:52:15.639 Wow, that's incredible to be able to see something like that, that's 674 00:52:15.719 --> 00:52:17.880 rare, and you're not necessarily thinking, Okay, I've got to get a 675 00:52:17.880 --> 00:52:23.360 photo this. It's I think it's one of those horrible things about UFOs in 676 00:52:23.400 --> 00:52:28.199 general, though, because you know, you know that there's someone who's had 677 00:52:28.199 --> 00:52:30.079 a similar experience to you, who was actually holding a camera at the time 678 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:35.000 and could have really easily got a snap. But it just seems to be 679 00:52:35.039 --> 00:52:39.119 part of the design of these encounters that you're that's never going to happen. 680 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:43.639 You're just not You're either not going to be allowed to in some way or 681 00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:46.760 I don't know, it just it just seems to be part of this is 682 00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:51.519 the design of this mystery. No one will ever get a good photo. 683 00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:53.800 And when someone's you know, when you see a video on YouTube's you know, 684 00:52:53.880 --> 00:52:59.559 amazing high quality footage of UFO, you know, you're the maths are 685 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:02.000 pretty good. The odds are on your side. If you guess that that's 686 00:53:02.000 --> 00:53:05.840 probably going to be a hoax, because what are the chance, you know, 687 00:53:06.119 --> 00:53:08.480 I mean, how many really good bits of footage are there of UFOs? 688 00:53:08.639 --> 00:53:13.719 I can only I can count them on one hand. In all the 689 00:53:13.800 --> 00:53:16.480 years I've been looking at your faux footage, I can think three or four 690 00:53:17.039 --> 00:53:21.519 videos that I think might be genuine, which is a pretty sad start of 691 00:53:21.559 --> 00:53:24.800 affairs. Maybe I'm a little overly skeptical. I think you're right, though 692 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:30.639 I agree with you one hundred percent. Yet there are people like you who 693 00:53:30.679 --> 00:53:37.880 are having these amazing sightings. So the sightings are happening, but unfortunately, 694 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:43.559 like you mentioned, they just don't seem to be able to be captured. 695 00:53:44.039 --> 00:53:49.920 I mean, it is difficult to capture things on video in the first place, 696 00:53:50.760 --> 00:53:53.800 much harder than people may think, especially at night, especially at night. 697 00:53:54.039 --> 00:53:57.880 Oh god. Yeah, And I'm sure many people have felt, you 698 00:53:57.920 --> 00:54:00.280 know, they see the deer in the forest, or they see a cool 699 00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:04.719 jet in the sky and you get out your phone and you record it and 700 00:54:04.719 --> 00:54:07.760 you're just totally disappointed by what you get. It's small and in the distance, 701 00:54:07.880 --> 00:54:12.360 or you know, I saw this in Mexico. I had my GoPro 702 00:54:12.599 --> 00:54:17.320 or and it wasn't that deep where I saw this incredible lobster that was colorful 703 00:54:17.400 --> 00:54:21.719 and everything, and I got my camera and I pointed it at it, 704 00:54:21.760 --> 00:54:23.000 and I got some footage, and I thought, this is going to be 705 00:54:23.079 --> 00:54:28.360 incredible, And you know, I get the footage on the computer and it's 706 00:54:28.360 --> 00:54:32.679 this tiny little thing moving across the ground. You know, it is more 707 00:54:32.719 --> 00:54:40.360 difficult than people realize. So but I, even though it sounds really weird, 708 00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.679 I get the feeling that you're right that it seems to be somehow the 709 00:54:45.800 --> 00:54:52.079 nature of the phenomena that we just can't get good footage. Yeah, it 710 00:54:52.119 --> 00:54:53.960 feels like that to me because I don't I honestly don't think that it's just 711 00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:58.400 like a coincidence. It's just like, oh, it's just bad luck. 712 00:54:58.480 --> 00:55:01.679 You know, we've had all these people having quite unambiguous sightings and it just 713 00:55:01.800 --> 00:55:05.880 happens to be that no one ever had a camera on them at the time. 714 00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:07.599 I don't believe that, or that it just happens to be that they 715 00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:10.920 were all too shocked to take a photo. I don't believe that. I 716 00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:17.079 think that part of the design of this mystery of this phenomenon. It's kind 717 00:55:17.079 --> 00:55:21.679 of funny because you know, on the one hand, people are like, 718 00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.519 oh, come on, that's ridiculous that like they do. But then when 719 00:55:24.559 --> 00:55:30.000 we watch science fiction, you know, like Doctor Who or something, you 720 00:55:30.039 --> 00:55:34.280 know, he's scanning people and they can scan to see if there's any technology. 721 00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:39.360 You know, there's multiple television shows. So we have this concept of 722 00:55:39.800 --> 00:55:44.280 when we write science fiction that these people from the future, of these aliens 723 00:55:44.639 --> 00:55:49.159 can scan to figure out if you have any sort of electronics or weapons on 724 00:55:49.239 --> 00:55:52.280 you. But when we think, oh, you know, in real life, 725 00:55:52.400 --> 00:55:55.840 could could an advanced civilization have something like that, that's ridiculous. So, 726 00:55:55.960 --> 00:56:00.239 I mean it's possible, that would be one answer. Yeah, and 727 00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:04.880 it's not something I mean, I'm just speculating myself. Obviously, no one 728 00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.280 knows the answer to these things. And I've I'm a member of several groups 729 00:56:08.880 --> 00:56:16.760 of of skeptically minded people who who look at these things, like from the 730 00:56:16.880 --> 00:56:21.559 default point of view that they take is that, well, it's probably not 731 00:56:21.599 --> 00:56:24.760 real. It's probably some kind of illusion or some kind of a mental thing. 732 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:31.039 So and so I can totally see how from a skeptics point of view, 733 00:56:31.079 --> 00:56:34.360 it's a bit of a cop out to just say, oh, well, 734 00:56:34.400 --> 00:56:37.719 it's just that people can't take photos of the UFOs because the UFOs don't 735 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.199 want them to take photos. It's you know, oh, that's a bit 736 00:56:40.239 --> 00:56:44.760 too easy, isn't it. But it does seem like that there's something going 737 00:56:44.800 --> 00:56:47.559 on. Well, you're just not You're never going to get really good evidence 738 00:56:47.599 --> 00:56:51.239 for these things. And yet, and yet one of this, one of 739 00:56:51.280 --> 00:56:57.920 the things that really sticks out from my experience in my memory is that it's 740 00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:04.239 the the whole thing just felt. It's like when you've seen so many movies 741 00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.119 with these things in and you and there's always this great cool music playing in 742 00:57:07.159 --> 00:57:10.480 the background, you know, like a Spielberg film, it's a really cool 743 00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:15.079 orchestral arrangement in the background, and everything's all very emotional. But when I 744 00:57:15.119 --> 00:57:20.400 saw these things, they were just they were kind of almost mundane in their 745 00:57:20.440 --> 00:57:24.480 in their physicality. They were quite obviously too aircraft hovering above the trees, 746 00:57:24.679 --> 00:57:30.719 and there was nothing kind of there was nothing ghostly about this. They were 747 00:57:30.760 --> 00:57:36.280 too solid looking, physical aircraft that looked, you know, comparable to a 748 00:57:36.320 --> 00:57:43.360 stealth bomber, but much more streamlined and minimalists. And yeah, it was 749 00:57:43.760 --> 00:57:46.639 kind of the physicality was almost mundane. It was that that these things were 750 00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:51.800 definitely there. There was nothing illusory about it. This wasn't some kind of 751 00:57:52.119 --> 00:58:00.960 hologram or a ghost or a hallucination. They were just blatantly sat there in 752 00:58:01.000 --> 00:58:05.440 my face, and there was no denying what was going on. I don't 753 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:09.440 claim for a second to know what was controlling them. And obviously the skeptics 754 00:58:09.440 --> 00:58:13.079 will say, well, it must have been some kind of a military thing. 755 00:58:13.239 --> 00:58:15.400 I'm not ruling that out for a second. Even though they started off 756 00:58:15.440 --> 00:58:20.360 as these kind of balls of light and apparently changed into much larger craft. 757 00:58:20.519 --> 00:58:22.599 Who am I to say that we haven't got that technology in our military. 758 00:58:22.599 --> 00:58:29.000 I don't know, but I also know that you know, had I no 759 00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:35.760 knowledge of the military or or euthology, I think my instinctive reaction would have 760 00:58:35.800 --> 00:58:38.480 been to it, think, wow, these these look like something not of 761 00:58:38.519 --> 00:58:43.880 this earth. Because of the way that they behaved, the way that they 762 00:58:43.920 --> 00:58:49.599 looked so beautifully made, so perfect. I can totally see why people who 763 00:58:49.639 --> 00:58:54.559 have these experiences then go with the assumption that it must be alien because they 764 00:58:54.719 --> 00:59:00.360 just looked so incredible, And you said they just coasted us slowly, I 765 00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:04.519 guess until you last side of them. Well, this is where it gets 766 00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:12.119 even more bizarre because they started to cross the road and the whole time they 767 00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:15.599 were actually changing size, so they started off as equilateral triangles. There was 768 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:20.119 no doubt in my mind they were ecollateral when I saw them floating over my 769 00:59:20.159 --> 00:59:23.679 sister's house in December two thousand and seven, and it was also two equilateral 770 00:59:23.760 --> 00:59:30.719 triangles that I saw with my customer earlier on on the September evening, and 771 00:59:30.760 --> 00:59:32.920 then when I saw them hovering above the trees just after I got out of 772 00:59:32.920 --> 00:59:37.119 the car, they were two equilateral triangles. But they started to move across 773 00:59:37.119 --> 00:59:42.679 the road and they actually elongated in length as they went, and this wasn't 774 00:59:42.760 --> 00:59:46.119 just like a minimal amount. They almost doubled in length, which was quite 775 00:59:46.159 --> 00:59:49.280 distinct, and it was really easy to you know, you could tell what 776 00:59:49.400 --> 00:59:51.960 was going on. They were the noose was kind of traveling faster than the 777 00:59:51.960 --> 00:59:55.480 tail end of these things, because it was they were literally stretching. And 778 00:59:55.519 --> 01:00:00.559 then once they got about halfway across the motorway, both of them them at 779 01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:06.599 exactly the same time, became transparent, almost like the ripples on a pond, 780 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:07.960 so you can tell that they're still there. You can actually see the 781 01:00:08.039 --> 01:00:12.280 ripples it's not that they become invisible. You can actually see the outlines, 782 01:00:12.840 --> 01:00:15.480 but they were transparent. And this lasted about a second and then they went 783 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.159 solid again, which is utterly bizarre. I mean, why would they do 784 01:00:20.199 --> 01:00:23.039 that? Totally bizarre. And then once they got to the other side of 785 01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:27.360 the road, they both turned their back ends to me, and one of 786 01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:30.920 them headed off up the motorway, and then the other one headed over the 787 01:00:31.000 --> 01:00:37.480 river at a right angle, heading towards a little housing estate where I now 788 01:00:37.559 --> 01:00:44.199 live. And the whole time they were absolutely silent. They had these distinctive 789 01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:47.639 looking blue lights along the back end of each one, which was bulging sticking 790 01:00:47.679 --> 01:00:52.280 out of the bottom. They were like really big lights, whereas all the 791 01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:57.760 other lights on them just looked like your standard kind of led, very small 792 01:00:57.920 --> 01:01:01.400 but quite bright lights that you see on helicopters and aircraft and that sort of 793 01:01:01.440 --> 01:01:06.760 thing. So it was yeah, and that was it. And then they 794 01:01:06.840 --> 01:01:08.559 disappeared, and I got in the taxi. Because I was quite new to 795 01:01:08.599 --> 01:01:12.840 the job, I thought some people are like, well, why didn't you 796 01:01:12.920 --> 01:01:14.719 chase them? Well, first, I was on the wrong side of the 797 01:01:14.760 --> 01:01:16.639 road. I would have had to switch over to the other side of the 798 01:01:16.639 --> 01:01:21.440 motorway. But secondly, i'd just got a new job and didn't fancy getting 799 01:01:21.440 --> 01:01:27.199 fired. Right, Wow, that's and what was would you have you estimated 800 01:01:27.239 --> 01:01:32.800 the size of the Yeah? I made a video about this that i've that 801 01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:37.960 I've posted and I can I can link you to it. And it's I'm 802 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:40.800 quite lucky that because I know the area so well. Where the sighting actually 803 01:01:40.800 --> 01:01:45.960 happened was right next door to the school that I spent seven years at, 804 01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:52.280 my secondary school, and a few hundred meters away from the local petrol station 805 01:01:52.400 --> 01:01:54.599 or as you call it, gas station, and the roof over that gas 806 01:01:54.639 --> 01:01:59.000 station it was basically the same size as these triangles. I was instantly able 807 01:01:59.000 --> 01:02:00.199 to estimate it. When I saw the triangles, I thought, okay, 808 01:02:00.199 --> 01:02:02.719 they were about the size of the roof over the petrol station, and that 809 01:02:02.760 --> 01:02:07.440 petrol station has got twelve pumps under it, so you could fit twelve cars 810 01:02:07.639 --> 01:02:10.719 if you park the cars up. You could fit about twelve cars under each 811 01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:15.400 black triangle, which is pretty big, but not the sort of size that 812 01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:17.719 some people have seen where they're saying it was the size of a football pitch. 813 01:02:19.320 --> 01:02:23.400 These weren't that big, you know, had they had pilots in I 814 01:02:23.400 --> 01:02:28.800 would expect them to be a one or a two pilot fighter jet, so 815 01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:34.559 pretty large but not super large. Wow, pretty strange, And to see 816 01:02:34.599 --> 01:02:40.639 that twice is even more peculiar. Yeah yeah, And it's actually I would 817 01:02:40.679 --> 01:02:45.320 prefer it if I had only ever had the final sighting, which was the 818 01:02:45.360 --> 01:02:51.519 closest one and the most unambiguous, because when I tell the story, I 819 01:02:51.559 --> 01:02:55.039 think it stretches credulity, doesn't it to say, oh, yeah, I 820 01:02:55.119 --> 01:03:00.880 saw these UFOs not once but twice. You know, well, it was 821 01:03:00.880 --> 01:03:04.039 actually three times. If the first there was one sighting on the Friday, 822 01:03:04.039 --> 01:03:07.719 the eighth of December, and then on the twenty sixth of September two thousand 823 01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:09.360 and eight, there were the two sightings, one with the customer and then 824 01:03:09.400 --> 01:03:13.440 another one twenty minutes later, all on my own, and that was the 825 01:03:14.000 --> 01:03:19.760 final one where they were just hovering above the motorway. So yeah, it's 826 01:03:20.039 --> 01:03:22.960 it's almost unfortunate that I've had those kind of three sightings because it makes it 827 01:03:23.000 --> 01:03:25.559 sound like, oh, I'm just one of those people that want to see 828 01:03:25.599 --> 01:03:30.000 them so badly that I've kind of made it up or remind yeah, you've 829 01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:34.480 got to be full of it. So what's interesting, though, is it 830 01:03:34.519 --> 01:03:38.000 makes me think twofold, especially given like what we were talking about hoaxes earlier, 831 01:03:38.480 --> 01:03:46.400 that although you've had these remarkable sightings, you're still very skeptical. I 832 01:03:46.440 --> 01:03:54.239 mean that you do come from things from the skeptic side of things. Has 833 01:03:54.440 --> 01:03:59.800 do you think your sightings made you more careful or were you already like that? 834 01:04:01.159 --> 01:04:03.960 I'm not sure if this honestly. To be honest, I don't think 835 01:04:04.000 --> 01:04:08.280 the sightings had much to do with it. I think the reason why I'm 836 01:04:08.360 --> 01:04:12.920 as skeptical as I am now is because I've kind of gone through a journey 837 01:04:13.800 --> 01:04:17.639 with upology, where in two thousand and six two thousand and seven I absorbed 838 01:04:17.679 --> 01:04:24.760 so much that and I had no idea what was if anything had already been 839 01:04:24.800 --> 01:04:27.519 debunked. I wasn't even looking for that. I was just trying to absorb 840 01:04:27.599 --> 01:04:30.119 everything I could that was pro ufo. So, for instance, I'd watch 841 01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:35.039 like a presentation with by Haimi Mosam and just think, oh, okay, 842 01:04:35.079 --> 01:04:38.960 well he knows what he's talking about, so everything he says must be true. 843 01:04:40.159 --> 01:04:45.760 M hm. I watched the documentary about Billy Mayer at well everything says 844 01:04:45.800 --> 01:04:55.239 isn't true. No lovely guy, but I just think, oh, I 845 01:04:55.320 --> 01:04:59.000 fell for a lot of stuff that it turns out later on I discovered, 846 01:04:59.039 --> 01:05:03.000 after doing a more recent search, that there is questionable evidence. So, 847 01:05:03.159 --> 01:05:05.960 for instance, Billy Billy Mayer, you know, he has his followers, 848 01:05:06.000 --> 01:05:12.480 I'm quite convinced that he hoaxed a lot of those photos. So but when 849 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:15.000 I first looked into him, I just thought, Wow, why would a 850 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:17.360 guy like that lie? It must all be true, and I was quite 851 01:05:17.360 --> 01:05:23.440 shocked. So later on, as I got a more of a rounded idea 852 01:05:23.480 --> 01:05:27.280 of what was going on, I started to realize that basically a lot of 853 01:05:27.280 --> 01:05:30.199 the stuff that I believed when I first first started to research and stuff was 854 01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:35.199 questionable or just outright already known to be a hoax, I think, had 855 01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:39.599 already been debunked. So I kind of felt a bit silly that I'd gone 856 01:05:39.599 --> 01:05:43.039 around telling my sister. You know, when I first found out about it, 857 01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:45.519 I told my sister, Oh, this is real, this is going 858 01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:49.039 on. There's also this thing called pant X which might hit us in the 859 01:05:49.039 --> 01:05:51.639 next few years, you know. And then I found out that so much 860 01:05:51.679 --> 01:05:56.760 of that is rubbish, and it made me look as if I had kind 861 01:05:56.800 --> 01:06:01.639 of blown a fuse to my friends and family, whereas now I'm kind of 862 01:06:01.639 --> 01:06:06.760 at the other end of the scale. My default position is to be skeptical 863 01:06:06.800 --> 01:06:14.840 of every piece of purported UFO evidence, whether it's a video or a supposed 864 01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:18.760 whistleblower, and I think some people think I've taken that too far. Some 865 01:06:18.800 --> 01:06:23.559 of my friends have you know, I've fallen out with a couple of people 866 01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:28.400 on Facebook where they basically think I'm being too skeptical. It happened to me 867 01:06:28.480 --> 01:06:31.119 all the time. Yeah, so it's just one of those unfortunate things because 868 01:06:31.159 --> 01:06:34.440 I believed so much and found out that so much of it was wrong. 869 01:06:34.480 --> 01:06:40.400 I think it is the correct position now is to be skeptical because I've learned 870 01:06:40.400 --> 01:06:45.239 from my mistakes. Basically, so I'm skeptical, but I'm also completely aware 871 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:53.360 that there is definitely a small percentage of this subject which is absolutely legitimate real 872 01:06:54.199 --> 01:06:59.079 I'm quite convinced, although that we haven't got the kind of evidence we'd like. 873 01:06:59.079 --> 01:07:00.880 I'm quite convinced that they're is some sort of a cover up going on, 874 01:07:01.000 --> 01:07:05.000 because even just from the perspective of the military, if they know that, 875 01:07:05.840 --> 01:07:11.519 if they have any inkling that people like myself are having the sort of 876 01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:15.719 encounters like the one I report, then they will be wanting to get hold 877 01:07:15.760 --> 01:07:23.199 of maybe satellite photos of these vehicles, unless, of course, these vehicles 878 01:07:23.239 --> 01:07:27.000 are already ours, in which case our military already knows about it, in 879 01:07:27.039 --> 01:07:29.679 which case there's still some kind of a cover up going on because they are 880 01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:34.400 letting people like me have these experiences and feel completely confused about what's going on. 881 01:07:36.039 --> 01:07:40.559 Yeah, it's kind of unfair. If this is our military doing this, 882 01:07:40.639 --> 01:07:42.960 what the hell are they playing out? They're playing some kind of a 883 01:07:43.000 --> 01:07:47.079 mind game with their populace, with people like myself who are left thinking could 884 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:49.440 that be an a could that be aliens? Do you know what I mean? 885 01:07:49.760 --> 01:07:54.320 That's not a good place to put someone if you know that it's actually 886 01:07:54.719 --> 01:08:00.920 just a military vehicle. But the way they're flying these things around so unambiguous 887 01:08:01.039 --> 01:08:03.800 disturbing, I think, to say the least, if this is US. 888 01:08:03.880 --> 01:08:08.280 If it's US, it's disturbing that they're doing this. And if it's not 889 01:08:08.440 --> 01:08:14.960 us, then I'm actually less disturbed by that it's you know what I mean? 890 01:08:15.599 --> 01:08:17.520 Yeah, So it's it's just really difficult. So, you know, 891 01:08:17.560 --> 01:08:23.560 we had the guy who runs a Black Triangle group on Facebook Shane, Chase 892 01:08:23.640 --> 01:08:29.279 and Kevin and he had a remarkable sighting which which to him made him think, 893 01:08:29.319 --> 01:08:32.439 Wow, these things definitely are military. And I like Sean. I've 894 01:08:32.479 --> 01:08:34.840 just I've discussed it with him a couple of times, and he's such a 895 01:08:34.920 --> 01:08:40.239 nice guy because he he's quite convinced that what he saw was man made. 896 01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:43.840 And I have got into debates with him where I've said, oh, you 897 01:08:43.880 --> 01:08:45.960 know, are you saying that about all triangle you know, about all these 898 01:08:46.039 --> 01:08:50.920 vehicles, and he's he's he's really good about it, because Yeah, I 899 01:08:50.960 --> 01:08:54.239 think he just takes his experience for what it was, and I think he 900 01:08:54.319 --> 01:08:57.760 accepts that other people like myself might have an experience where for me, these 901 01:08:57.800 --> 01:09:03.319 craft quite blatantly future teristic things. They were not, you know, the 902 01:09:03.319 --> 01:09:06.560 the lights on them, even though they look kind of like quite small led 903 01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:12.920 lights, they were just really bright and really clean looking, and just the 904 01:09:13.199 --> 01:09:18.199 overall shape of these of the Black Triangles just totally look minimalistic and futuristic to 905 01:09:18.279 --> 01:09:21.560 me. But the thing is, though, I think Sean got quite got 906 01:09:21.600 --> 01:09:24.800 a bit closer to his triangles, didn't he than I did. I was 907 01:09:24.840 --> 01:09:28.520 too. I think he was kind of like right underneath. But he proposes 908 01:09:28.560 --> 01:09:32.800 this idea that you touched on that is really fascinating in that if they are 909 01:09:32.960 --> 01:09:39.920 man made, or even if some of them are, then he argues, 910 01:09:40.119 --> 01:09:45.840 and I think he makes a strong argument that because so many of these black 911 01:09:45.920 --> 01:09:49.319 triangles seem to have been so blatant, like you know, hey, look 912 01:09:49.359 --> 01:09:55.479 at me, it's like you talked about some sort of program where they want 913 01:09:55.520 --> 01:10:00.479 people to see them and think they're alien. And that's really, like you 914 01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:06.119 said, that's quite concerning. Yeah, I mean, I've thought about this 915 01:10:06.359 --> 01:10:11.960 now for years, trying to work out what's going on, and you're just 916 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:15.159 left with it's quite humbling. You just have to admit, well, we 917 01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:17.600 don't really know what's going on. But I'm left with kind of two options. 918 01:10:18.000 --> 01:10:23.680 Either what I saw was some kind of alien vehicle or it was some 919 01:10:23.800 --> 01:10:27.640 kind of a military vehicle. If it was aliens, then our government must 920 01:10:27.680 --> 01:10:30.600 know about it and they're covering it up. If it was military, then 921 01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:35.039 what are they doing playing mind games with a taxi driver who's just trying to 922 01:10:35.039 --> 01:10:40.479 make some money on a Friday night. These things weren't It wasn't like I 923 01:10:40.560 --> 01:10:44.279 would I just happened to be driving past, and they were testing some military 924 01:10:44.359 --> 01:10:49.039 vehicle out above above my old school. It's kind of ridiculous that they would 925 01:10:49.079 --> 01:10:53.720 be testing these things out over a town like that, so they're obviously not 926 01:10:53.760 --> 01:10:59.399 doing military testing. And it was quite obvious that these things could see me 927 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:04.119 or it's hard to explain. It's quite obvious that anyone piloting that thing would 928 01:11:04.119 --> 01:11:09.039 have seen this taxi driving past and the taxi driver getting out and swearing and 929 01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:14.319 pointing at them. So they weren't trying to do anything secret. It was 930 01:11:14.600 --> 01:11:18.079 unambiguous, and who in charge of these things knew that, which is a 931 01:11:18.079 --> 01:11:24.439 bit strange. So there's also the third scenario, and this is this scenario 932 01:11:24.520 --> 01:11:30.279 that kind of John Alexander puts forward. Other military people and this new government 933 01:11:30.359 --> 01:11:35.000 insider that Leslie Kane had interview, who worked for the DoD and worked on 934 01:11:35.039 --> 01:11:41.279 black projects, he says, but who's also been interested in UFOs. He 935 01:11:41.359 --> 01:11:45.760 gets the impression that the military knows this type of thing happens, but there's 936 01:11:45.840 --> 01:11:49.760 nothing they can do about it. So all they do is take notes. 937 01:11:49.920 --> 01:11:54.319 They note that it happened, file it away, and then just want to 938 01:11:54.359 --> 01:11:57.520 ignore it. They don't want anything to do with it because they can't do 939 01:11:57.560 --> 01:12:01.279 anything about it, and they just get ridiculed if they, you know, 940 01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:05.840 take it seriously. That's true. That is another option. I mean, 941 01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:12.159 have you you know the I may have got it. Oh, I'm trying 942 01:12:12.159 --> 01:12:15.920 to remember the name of it. But the Ministry of Defense, No, 943 01:12:15.920 --> 01:12:23.199 no, the Ministry of Defense released a thing called a report about the Conde 944 01:12:23.279 --> 01:12:28.840 Report, and I found it fascinating to find that In there they explain that 945 01:12:29.680 --> 01:12:32.199 there is I can't remember the exact quote, but basically that there are balls 946 01:12:32.319 --> 01:12:38.279 of what is thought to be plasma, and if three of these balls get 947 01:12:38.319 --> 01:12:43.439 together in a formation, the space between them will turn black and what these 948 01:12:43.479 --> 01:12:46.319 have been called black triangles. And I'm just thinking, wow. So they're 949 01:12:46.560 --> 01:12:50.159 they're talking openly about that, and they're talking kind of as if they don't 950 01:12:50.159 --> 01:12:54.119 really know what they're talking about. They don't give any they don't give enough 951 01:12:54.119 --> 01:13:00.399 detail. But that was that was published years ago, years before I had 952 01:13:00.399 --> 01:13:03.199 my sighting. And when I had my sighting, even though I'd done a 953 01:13:03.199 --> 01:13:09.079 bit of research into utology before it, I had never heard of morphing balls 954 01:13:09.079 --> 01:13:12.560 of light or morphing orbs. I had heard of orbs. I'd heard flying 955 01:13:12.560 --> 01:13:15.079 sources, and I had heard of black triangles, but I'd never heard of 956 01:13:15.359 --> 01:13:19.560 a ball of light changing into a larger UFO. So when I saw it, 957 01:13:19.560 --> 01:13:26.199 it was utterly bizarre and unexpected and kind of hard to swallow. But 958 01:13:26.239 --> 01:13:28.960 then I obviously I looked it up in the months following my sighting, and 959 01:13:29.000 --> 01:13:33.199 it turns out that there have been people having similar sightings for decades, so 960 01:13:33.560 --> 01:13:40.520 not only orbs changing into black triangles in recent years, but also historical accounts 961 01:13:40.560 --> 01:13:43.720 from the sixties and seventies of people who saw what looked like a ball of 962 01:13:43.800 --> 01:13:49.039 light that then changed into a flying saucer. So that's always It just struck 963 01:13:49.039 --> 01:13:57.560 me as being so strange that the Condine report should talk about that without going 964 01:13:57.560 --> 01:14:00.279 into any more detail. They don't explain how they know that, you know 965 01:14:00.319 --> 01:14:03.199 what I mean. Yeah, they kind of allude to that it's anecdotal information, 966 01:14:03.319 --> 01:14:06.920 but I know what you mean, and it's a fascinating report. But 967 01:14:08.000 --> 01:14:11.199 you know, the other thing that makes me think getting into the hoaxes is 968 01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:14.840 that you know there will be people and I think this is a lot of 969 01:14:14.880 --> 01:14:19.239 what happens who listen to an account like yours and they're like, oh, 970 01:14:19.319 --> 01:14:23.760 my gosh, this is amazing. They go online, they look for black 971 01:14:23.800 --> 01:14:28.640 triangles and then they get these videos and they watch these videos and they're like, 972 01:14:28.800 --> 01:14:32.720 wow, this is just the same thing that Finnian described, you know, 973 01:14:32.960 --> 01:14:38.640 on the show. This must be real. And I could see how 974 01:14:38.760 --> 01:14:43.560 they would, you know, be more open to some of these videos that 975 01:14:43.800 --> 01:14:49.840 inevitably for the most part, turned out to be fake or misidentified aircraft or 976 01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:56.119 misidentified yeah, either one. But if it's but I think these real fascinating. 977 01:14:56.199 --> 01:15:00.359 Are these videos that are real sensational like Secure Team ten. I mean 978 01:15:00.399 --> 01:15:04.359 they make them look really cool and fantastic, and you want to have the 979 01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:09.119 experience, like we all want to have the experience you had, and so 980 01:15:10.600 --> 01:15:14.800 they want the videos to be real. But they just especially with Secure Team 981 01:15:14.880 --> 01:15:19.239 ten and others, are not. Yeah. Yeah, it's a tough. 982 01:15:19.359 --> 01:15:24.880 It's a tough thing to I mean, everyone just has to kind of learn 983 01:15:25.000 --> 01:15:28.119 for themselves, don't know, they have to watch these videos. I remember 984 01:15:28.159 --> 01:15:30.960 when I first started watching UFO videos, you know, so many of them 985 01:15:31.000 --> 01:15:34.800 blew me away. I was, and it's quite exciting. You're just like, 986 01:15:34.880 --> 01:15:38.399 wow, there's all of this evidence out there and it's so good and 987 01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:42.039 I didn't realize that there were so many good videos, And it's only through 988 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:46.359 sitting down and watching them and actually doing some researching to see whether anyone has 989 01:15:46.359 --> 01:15:50.119 debunked them, and if someone has debunked them, look into the details of 990 01:15:50.159 --> 01:15:54.680 why they've debunked them. Is because they actually in most cases, because they 991 01:15:54.720 --> 01:15:58.880 really do understand photography and they can explain things in ways that you might not 992 01:15:58.920 --> 01:16:04.399 have understood because you haven't got that background in photography or videos to understand just 993 01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:10.239 how easy it is to have a mis identification. I mean so easy to 994 01:16:10.640 --> 01:16:13.199 see a plane in the distance. I saw one the other day. It 995 01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:16.199 was the sun was just the right angle that the sun was hitting this aeroplane, 996 01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:20.600 and it made it look like a much bigger than it was because the 997 01:16:20.720 --> 01:16:24.920 light was reflecting straight at me. So it made this plane look like a 998 01:16:24.920 --> 01:16:30.039 big ball of light. But then as the light change, you could see 999 01:16:29.520 --> 01:16:32.039 it died down and then suddenly I could see, oh, it's actually an 1000 01:16:32.079 --> 01:16:36.239 airplane. Well, there are people who filmed these and they call them fake 1001 01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:40.640 planes because oh, it started as a ball of light and it changed into 1002 01:16:40.680 --> 01:16:45.800 an aeroplane. But in most cases that's actually it's caused by the camera. 1003 01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:49.239 The camera is kind of over exposing the light and making it bloom out and 1004 01:16:49.239 --> 01:16:53.720 look a lot bigger than it is. So yeah, there are so many 1005 01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:58.159 pitfalls when you start to get into so many things to misidentify. Chinese lanterns 1006 01:16:58.279 --> 01:17:01.159 do look kind of like orbs from a distance, So you know, having 1007 01:17:01.199 --> 01:17:05.680 actually seen what I can one hundred percent say were actually orbs, you know, 1008 01:17:05.720 --> 01:17:12.800 balls of light with some kind of UFO, you know that they were 1009 01:17:12.840 --> 01:17:16.399 definitely there's perfect balls of light. And I was seeing them from a distance 1010 01:17:16.439 --> 01:17:20.960 of about ten or fifteen meters away, so they were definitely UFO in origin, 1011 01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.880 if you know what I mean. They were actually some kind of an 1012 01:17:24.359 --> 01:17:28.640 unidentified craft. And I've also seen Chinese lanterns on god knows how many occasions. 1013 01:17:28.800 --> 01:17:32.680 And about a week or two after my sighting, I was driving a 1014 01:17:32.760 --> 01:17:36.840 taxi through town and a Chinese lantern floated over the road and it really made 1015 01:17:36.880 --> 01:17:40.159 me jump for a second. I thought, Oh, it's happening again. 1016 01:17:40.199 --> 01:17:42.600 Oh my god, it's happening again. And then I calmed down. I 1017 01:17:42.600 --> 01:17:45.399 was like, no, it's Chinese lantern. So I can totally see why 1018 01:17:45.720 --> 01:17:50.079 how these people misidentify things. I've done it myself. A. We we're 1019 01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:53.840 all capable of doing it, but you've just got to try and learn as 1020 01:17:53.920 --> 01:17:59.039 much as you can about misidentifications so that you're better placed to identify the real 1021 01:17:59.279 --> 01:18:02.399 thing when it happened. And then I think it gets well, there's the 1022 01:18:02.439 --> 01:18:08.319 case of money making, but beyond that, I think people sometimes these videos 1023 01:18:08.319 --> 01:18:12.199 go viral and people get really excited. So, for instance, I still 1024 01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:16.000 get a lot of heck over these pictures from texts that show a ring of 1025 01:18:16.079 --> 01:18:24.800 lights. And I've demonstrated as many have you probably were involved with us on 1026 01:18:24.840 --> 01:18:30.640 Facebook, showing that these are reflections from the highway lights are a ring of 1027 01:18:30.720 --> 01:18:34.880 lights, the same number of lights look exactly the same. And people still 1028 01:18:34.960 --> 01:18:42.079 get upset that and that we call it that, but that's what they are. 1029 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:45.600 But I think what happens is people post a video and it goes viral 1030 01:18:45.920 --> 01:18:51.000 and they want to keep that you know, excitement going, and you know, 1031 01:18:51.079 --> 01:18:55.239 people tell them, oh my gosh, you have a UFO video that 1032 01:18:55.399 --> 01:19:00.520 then they're they're so wrapped up in it that again these things. One of 1033 01:19:00.560 --> 01:19:05.439 the best examples of that recently was the guy who filmed a piece of bubble 1034 01:19:05.479 --> 01:19:10.359 bath foam floating past his apartment, and there are all sorts of people who 1035 01:19:10.439 --> 01:19:13.640 jumped on that saying, oh, it's a triangle, it's got lights blinking 1036 01:19:13.640 --> 01:19:15.399 in it, this and that, this and that, and I'm sure several 1037 01:19:15.439 --> 01:19:18.319 people told him, no, this is foam from a nearby phone party, 1038 01:19:18.880 --> 01:19:24.199 which which was happening a couple of streets away. But by then it had 1039 01:19:24.199 --> 01:19:28.960 already kind of snowballed and taken its own energy, and he had newspapers ringing. 1040 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:31.239 So what's he going to do. Is he going to say ring back 1041 01:19:31.239 --> 01:19:33.359 the newspapers and say, actually, I don't want to do that interview because 1042 01:19:33.359 --> 01:19:36.000 someone told me it was a piece of foam. No, he's going to 1043 01:19:36.039 --> 01:19:42.000 stick with it. He's going to get a bit of publicity, get some 1044 01:19:42.039 --> 01:19:45.560 attention. It's easy, it's totally easy to see why these things happened. 1045 01:19:45.600 --> 01:19:48.800 And like the guy who runs Secure Team ten, I mean, he's making 1046 01:19:48.880 --> 01:19:53.159 probably actually making a living off this now. So it's hard to go on 1047 01:19:53.319 --> 01:19:56.319 his channel and say, look, what are you doing. You know, 1048 01:19:56.359 --> 01:19:59.600 all of his fans stick up for him and he just ignores your posts, 1049 01:20:00.119 --> 01:20:02.439 so there's not much he can do. Really. Yeah, I mean he's 1050 01:20:02.479 --> 01:20:05.399 really smart about it too. I mean, at the beginning, he was 1051 01:20:05.439 --> 01:20:12.239 a little less, a little more transparent, and that he was just making 1052 01:20:12.359 --> 01:20:17.159 videos for fun. But now and he's smart in that he just doesn't comment 1053 01:20:17.359 --> 01:20:23.159 to the debunkers because then he doesn't have to. Instead, he can post 1054 01:20:23.199 --> 01:20:29.640 these fake videos, the believers go wild, and he makes money off of 1055 01:20:29.680 --> 01:20:32.920 YouTube, just like Third Phase of Moon found out, they make a living 1056 01:20:33.000 --> 01:20:39.000 off of their videos. They make these fake videos, people go wild and 1057 01:20:39.560 --> 01:20:43.159 it works for him. But you know, and I want to ask you 1058 01:20:43.239 --> 01:20:46.239 this because you live in the UK, especially lately, and I've kind of 1059 01:20:46.279 --> 01:20:51.279 even said that right now ufology, we're kind of in the era of the 1060 01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:58.560 UK tabloids because they are reprinting all of these fakes, even from Secure Team 1061 01:20:58.600 --> 01:21:01.800 ten, like they don't even care, and they're getting a lot of hits 1062 01:21:01.800 --> 01:21:05.560 from it. And I think that they're, you know, taking advantage of 1063 01:21:05.600 --> 01:21:13.079 all of this activity that these sort of videos create. I mean, how 1064 01:21:13.079 --> 01:21:15.640 did the UK tabloids happen? I mean, how did these become you know, 1065 01:21:15.720 --> 01:21:24.760 some of the bigger news And it's interesting that I think, you know, 1066 01:21:24.840 --> 01:21:29.840 growing up, I've always known that the UK tabloids have a reputation for 1067 01:21:29.880 --> 01:21:31.680 being trashy, you know. I mean, I'm sure they have the same 1068 01:21:31.760 --> 01:21:38.760 reputation in other countries, but kind of being trashy and not really reporting anything 1069 01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:44.199 worthwhile and just going for shock value and that sort of thing. And then, 1070 01:21:44.319 --> 01:21:46.199 of course, in the last kind of five to ten years, we've 1071 01:21:46.239 --> 01:21:51.600 seen newspapers have started to kind of die out because because the Internet is taking 1072 01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:57.720 people's attention away from newspapers. So I think newspaper sales have dropped significantly, 1073 01:21:58.159 --> 01:22:00.760 especially over the last five years, And so I think what's happened is that 1074 01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:05.119 the tabloids have started to launch their own websites to try and get some of 1075 01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:11.840 that traffic back and make some advertising revenue. And because they're tabloids and they 1076 01:22:11.840 --> 01:22:15.079 don't really care what they print, they have seen that UFO videos get a 1077 01:22:15.119 --> 01:22:21.880 lot of traffic, so they have just basically decided to start reposting UFO videos. 1078 01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:26.319 Doesn't matter if they're real, it doesn't matter if they're posted by a 1079 01:22:26.359 --> 01:22:29.399 known hoax channel. They're just going to post them anyway because they know it's 1080 01:22:29.439 --> 01:22:32.239 going to get traffic going through their websites. And it's not just UK traffic, 1081 01:22:32.279 --> 01:22:36.000 it'll be worldwide traffic going through their websites, so people like the Daily 1082 01:22:36.039 --> 01:22:43.039 Express, the Daily Star. I'm trying to remember the Sun. I think 1083 01:22:43.079 --> 01:22:45.119 the Sun. Oh, the Sun is one of the worst in this country. 1084 01:22:45.600 --> 01:22:49.319 Yeah, so they've always had bad reputations and now they're just just cashing 1085 01:22:49.359 --> 01:22:55.359 in on traffic. So they have UFOs and girls in bikinis or in or 1086 01:22:56.159 --> 01:23:03.680 or not having bikinis on rrible and that is drawing the people and keeping them. 1087 01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:10.720 And it's it's sad because often then what we've seen lately, unfortunately, 1088 01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:15.319 is then some of these stories get picked up by the mainstream media and go 1089 01:23:15.520 --> 01:23:21.000 viral once the information has been often distorted or it was bad information to begin 1090 01:23:21.119 --> 01:23:26.560 with. Yeah, it's a shame though, because I mean, I've been 1091 01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:30.600 in some serious debates, shall we say, with people on Facebook where I 1092 01:23:30.199 --> 01:23:35.199 just can't believe how gullible some people are when they'll stick up for a particular 1093 01:23:35.279 --> 01:23:41.920 piece of evidence or a video which you've just proven outright is fake or hoaxed 1094 01:23:42.000 --> 01:23:46.279 or a misidentification, and they just will not back down. And honestly, 1095 01:23:46.319 --> 01:23:50.279 I've kind of I can totally understand where they're coming from. Why why is 1096 01:23:50.319 --> 01:23:56.119 it that we're in this quandary of people not trusting someone like myself. Well, 1097 01:23:56.119 --> 01:24:00.359 it's because they think there's a cover up going on that and that there 1098 01:24:00.359 --> 01:24:04.000 are people like myself hired to debunk this stuff. There are shields on Facebook, 1099 01:24:04.079 --> 01:24:06.680 right who are hired so that they go on as soon as there's a 1100 01:24:06.680 --> 01:24:11.000 good video, they'll go and tell you it's a hoax, just to stop 1101 01:24:11.119 --> 01:24:15.119 you from believing that it's real. And why are people so mistrusting? Well, 1102 01:24:15.159 --> 01:24:17.119 because I think there really is some sort of a cover up going on, 1103 01:24:17.399 --> 01:24:23.239 So that all of this mistrust and these kind of factions that have that 1104 01:24:23.319 --> 01:24:27.840 have kind of split in upology. You got people who are kind of extreme 1105 01:24:27.920 --> 01:24:30.720 believers who will just believe anything, and you've got the more skeptical side of 1106 01:24:30.760 --> 01:24:33.039 it. Why is it that we have so much mistrust? I think it's 1107 01:24:33.079 --> 01:24:38.439 it stems from the fact that they're genuinely are some big lies being told to 1108 01:24:38.560 --> 01:24:43.199 us? Wow, yeah, that's not being told at all. So the 1109 01:24:43.319 --> 01:24:46.000 natural response, the natural response is to be suspicious of someone who comes along 1110 01:24:46.000 --> 01:24:50.960 and says this isn't real, that video's fate. So that's a bit of 1111 01:24:50.960 --> 01:24:54.159 a tough place to be. What can you do, You've just got to 1112 01:24:54.199 --> 01:24:58.600 be as polite as you can and state your side of the argument. Yeah, 1113 01:24:58.640 --> 01:25:02.520 and try to stick to logic and reason and hope that and you know 1114 01:25:02.560 --> 01:25:11.079 that they'll be bastions of groups or people who feel similar and which we do 1115 01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:15.159 in the UFO group. So we're pretty much out of time. But send 1116 01:25:15.239 --> 01:25:18.800 me the link to the video analysis you did and I'll put that in the 1117 01:25:18.880 --> 01:25:24.159 story. But yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show and 1118 01:25:24.199 --> 01:25:29.840 sharing it. What a fascinating sighting. It's incredible. Yeah, no, 1119 01:25:29.840 --> 01:25:32.680 no problem. It's nice to speak to you finally, Alejandroft all these months 1120 01:25:33.000 --> 01:25:36.159 kind of speaking to you on Facebook. Yeah, it was really great. 1121 01:25:36.199 --> 01:25:41.239 So all right, thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks 1122 01:25:41.239 --> 01:25:45.199 mate, have a nice evening you too. Thank you so much to Finnian 1123 01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:50.479 for joining us on the show. What an amazing sighting and it's really cool. 1124 01:25:51.319 --> 01:25:58.279 Especially having known Finnian for months now and confernced with him on Facebook and 1125 01:25:58.359 --> 01:26:03.920 seeing how he analyzed is in a skeptical and grounded way other UFO sightings, 1126 01:26:04.680 --> 01:26:12.239 it makes it even more amazing to hear this incredible experience that he had, 1127 01:26:13.600 --> 01:26:18.159 so and baffling. It's just what the hell is going on out there? 1128 01:26:18.199 --> 01:26:24.960 People? Weird stuff, So thank you so much Tafinian for sharing that information. 1129 01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:29.520 By the way, he mentioned how he has this YouTube video where he 1130 01:26:29.600 --> 01:26:33.680 analyzes and talks about his sighting. I'm gonna post a link to that in 1131 01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:40.039 the story here on our web page, so be sure if you're listening on 1132 01:26:40.119 --> 01:26:46.239 blog talk or if you're go to openminds dot tv to the radio section and 1133 01:26:46.439 --> 01:26:50.079 you'll be able to get a link to that video. In fact, you 1134 01:26:50.119 --> 01:26:55.680 know what, I'll even embed it below the interview so you guys can watch 1135 01:26:55.680 --> 01:27:00.119 it right there from the website. So go to openminds dot tv and definitely 1136 01:27:00.279 --> 01:27:08.359 check out that video. I'll also post it in the open minds UFO Facebook 1137 01:27:08.399 --> 01:27:12.239 group that we've been talking about, and that's how I met Vinnian in the 1138 01:27:12.279 --> 01:27:15.960 first place, as you know, so go check that out. I implore 1139 01:27:16.119 --> 01:27:20.119 you all to join our group. Like I said earlier, there is a 1140 01:27:20.159 --> 01:27:26.119 lot of great conversation that goes in there, and we have a lot of 1141 01:27:26.520 --> 01:27:29.920 great admins for that. You know a lot of great people in there, 1142 01:27:30.159 --> 01:27:32.880 a lot of researchers. Nick Pope is commenting in there often. He's the 1143 01:27:32.920 --> 01:27:39.079 guy who worked for the British government. You know other people who worked for 1144 01:27:39.119 --> 01:27:43.079 the government. You know, Bruce mcabee is commenting in there. He worked 1145 01:27:43.079 --> 01:27:47.840 as a physicist and optical physicist for the Navy. He's in there commenting. 1146 01:27:47.960 --> 01:27:53.560 Lee Spiegel of the Huffington Post is in there. Ben Hansen, a factor 1147 01:27:53.680 --> 01:27:57.399 fake, is in there. You know, some of the other people like 1148 01:27:57.960 --> 01:28:00.920 Chase Kletzky, who's on the show A Move On Investigators. She's in there 1149 01:28:00.960 --> 01:28:04.600 commenting quite a bit. And then of course we have the great admins like 1150 01:28:06.359 --> 01:28:13.720 that I mentioned, such as Karen King and Mark D'Antonio is one of the 1151 01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:17.880 admins. Angelo is one of the admins. Angelo's really great. He's like 1152 01:28:17.960 --> 01:28:24.880 Vinnie and he's in there doing a great job analyzing these pictures and videos with 1153 01:28:24.960 --> 01:28:29.560 everybody. Dave Blank is in there. He volunteered at the UFO Congress. 1154 01:28:29.600 --> 01:28:32.640 Some of you might have met him there. Great guy. He's also from 1155 01:28:32.680 --> 01:28:36.359 the UK. I think he said he was born in Germany, but he 1156 01:28:36.800 --> 01:28:41.720 lived in the UK most of his life and has been over here and now 1157 01:28:41.720 --> 01:28:44.840 it lives in Arizona, so I get to see him a little more. 1158 01:28:45.439 --> 01:28:48.640 But anyway, we have a great bunch of admins in there who are helping 1159 01:28:48.760 --> 01:28:55.199 out. And Richard Hoffman, who we had on just recently, is the 1160 01:28:55.279 --> 01:28:59.720 guy who he's also an admin. He's really busy with his other move on 1161 01:28:59.800 --> 01:29:03.000 dude, but he's in there commenting as well. Just a lot of great 1162 01:29:03.039 --> 01:29:08.920 people. So it's only been open a few months, but it's growing. 1163 01:29:08.960 --> 01:29:13.319 We already have a couple thousand people in there, and so it'd be great 1164 01:29:13.319 --> 01:29:15.279 to have you in there and you can keep up on the stories and see 1165 01:29:15.279 --> 01:29:19.479 some of the really interesting analysis and join in on the conversation. That's what 1166 01:29:19.520 --> 01:29:24.520 those groups are all about, is discussion. So thank you very much to 1167 01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:29.640 Finn. Be sure and check that out. And also thank you to Martin 1168 01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:31.520 Willis for joining us at the beginning of the show. Of course he does 1169 01:29:31.600 --> 01:29:38.159 podcast UFO, another podcast on this sort of topic where we do the opposite. 1170 01:29:38.279 --> 01:29:42.920 I joined him for the news and then he does his interviews over there, 1171 01:29:44.199 --> 01:29:47.479 so join him for that. I also want to thank Caleb Hanks for 1172 01:29:47.600 --> 01:29:53.880 doing the introduction and music. And I want to remind you of a couple 1173 01:29:54.000 --> 01:29:57.359 things. First of all, we're going to be posting speakers for the UFO 1174 01:29:57.439 --> 01:30:03.199 Congress really soon. We're also going to be taking registration for the UFO really 1175 01:30:03.479 --> 01:30:08.399 Congress really soon, like in the next couple of weeks. And this is 1176 01:30:08.479 --> 01:30:11.560 really exciting, and I'm gonna be pushing this and You're gonna hear this over 1177 01:30:11.600 --> 01:30:14.199 and over again, because this is going to be the main thing I'm pushing 1178 01:30:14.920 --> 01:30:19.279 going forward, not only the Open Mind's UFO Report, which you can find 1179 01:30:19.319 --> 01:30:24.920 on YouTube, but also all of our lectures. So at our conference, 1180 01:30:24.960 --> 01:30:28.720 you know, we record our lectures, and to be honest, I don't 1181 01:30:28.760 --> 01:30:34.479 know that anybody records their lectures at the quality that we do. And I 1182 01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:39.399 say that not just to brag. I'm bragging about I guess a bit about 1183 01:30:39.479 --> 01:30:44.840 what we do. But we have a lot of expensive equipment in order to 1184 01:30:44.960 --> 01:30:50.560 record these. Plus we have our extremely talented video guy, Michael Klein, 1185 01:30:51.119 --> 01:30:57.279 who heads all of that up and then he masters these videos. So and 1186 01:30:57.319 --> 01:31:02.800 it's important for us to docum meant these lectures because these lectures are really important. 1187 01:31:03.119 --> 01:31:06.960 I mean, these are This is UFO research by a bunch of different 1188 01:31:08.039 --> 01:31:16.720 researchers who work really hard to discover this information and then they share their incredible 1189 01:31:16.760 --> 01:31:23.920 findings every year at the UFO Congress. Some of these speakers have already unfortunately 1190 01:31:24.039 --> 01:31:29.920 passed away. Others of these speakers you know, you just rarely see and 1191 01:31:29.960 --> 01:31:34.760 we'll probably not see again. People such as Bob Lazaar or Jacques Vallet. 1192 01:31:34.840 --> 01:31:41.439 These are people who just don't do UFO conferences period and that we were lucky 1193 01:31:41.560 --> 01:31:45.760 enough to get them to come to our conference and do talk. So we've 1194 01:31:45.800 --> 01:31:50.239 recorded this. Plus there's people like George Knapp who do amazing work but rarely 1195 01:31:50.279 --> 01:31:55.119 speak themselves. In fact, George is saying he's just too busy to really 1196 01:31:55.199 --> 01:32:00.640 do this ever again, and you don't see him much. But we've Travis 1197 01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:05.279 Walton and some of the witnesses who saw this that you know him supposedly getting 1198 01:32:05.319 --> 01:32:12.439 taken by this UFO, and we have videos of more videos of the witnesses 1199 01:32:12.479 --> 01:32:16.600 than anybody has out there besides the Jennifer Stein's documentary. She's got a lot 1200 01:32:16.640 --> 01:32:20.119 of the witnesses on that too, But we have full lectures, in full 1201 01:32:20.319 --> 01:32:25.960 you know, panel discussions with these guys. But we have all of these 1202 01:32:26.039 --> 01:32:30.680 videos that we now have up on our streaming site. So if you go 1203 01:32:30.800 --> 01:32:34.119 to open Minds dot tv and look at the video portal, you're gonna have 1204 01:32:34.279 --> 01:32:40.199 access to all of these videos. So for one low monthly price, you 1205 01:32:40.239 --> 01:32:45.000 can look at just tons and tons and tons of videos that you will have 1206 01:32:45.239 --> 01:32:51.920 access to, and it's gold. I mean for UFO research, this really 1207 01:32:53.119 --> 01:32:57.840 is some of the best stuff out there. I mean, there's this amazing 1208 01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:03.119 lecture from this guy about strange alien cases, these incredible cases. This guy 1209 01:33:03.239 --> 01:33:09.199 was so great. His name was Alejandro. Now I am tooting my own 1210 01:33:09.199 --> 01:33:13.159 horn on that one. But you can see those lectures and more. Antonio 1211 01:33:13.239 --> 01:33:15.399 Hunee is he who worked for Open Minds. You can ask anybody. He 1212 01:33:15.439 --> 01:33:19.479 had some of the best lectures out there, some great information. Anyway, 1213 01:33:19.560 --> 01:33:25.319 I could go on and on and on about the great lectures, but check 1214 01:33:25.359 --> 01:33:28.279 this out. Just go to the site and at least look to see who's 1215 01:33:28.359 --> 01:33:30.600 up there. And I think that once you see the names up there, 1216 01:33:30.640 --> 01:33:36.560 you'll be like, oh am gee, I need to subscribe. So go 1217 01:33:36.600 --> 01:33:40.760 ahead, do it, subscribe and be part of the club and it'll be 1218 01:33:40.800 --> 01:33:45.039 a lot of fun. So it just we do work really really hard to 1219 01:33:45.079 --> 01:33:49.600 provide all of that information and the cost is minimal. The cost for the 1220 01:33:49.680 --> 01:33:56.399 conference. Really we are very priced conscious to keep the prices low. And 1221 01:33:57.119 --> 01:34:00.600 even though we don't and I say this over and over again, people complain, 1222 01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:03.079 what do you charge money for all these man it should be free. 1223 01:34:03.159 --> 01:34:06.880 Well, you know that would be nice, buddy, But if you saw 1224 01:34:06.920 --> 01:34:11.520 the price take on the camra on one camera, you know, of the 1225 01:34:11.560 --> 01:34:15.560 cameras that we use, or some of this equipment. People don't realize all 1226 01:34:15.600 --> 01:34:19.760 of this equipment that you need this expensive equipment to do. You know, 1227 01:34:19.880 --> 01:34:26.840 this quality video, it's really expensive. So in fact, if you go 1228 01:34:26.880 --> 01:34:30.159 to my Facebook, you can also see a three sixty of our office the 1229 01:34:30.239 --> 01:34:32.520 three This is cool. I got a three sixty camera where you can scroll 1230 01:34:32.560 --> 01:34:36.640 around like Google Street and you can see inside of our office and see what 1231 01:34:36.680 --> 01:34:41.000 it looks like. But all of this stuff is really expensive. Luckily, 1232 01:34:41.119 --> 01:34:45.159 my boss has an interest and he doesn't make money off of this. He 1233 01:34:45.279 --> 01:34:50.600 spends money to get this information out to everybody. So so I just help 1234 01:34:50.720 --> 01:34:55.079 us recover some of that money, so hopefully we can stay open longer. 1235 01:34:55.399 --> 01:34:58.920 And also, you know, enjoy it, because that's really why we do 1236 01:34:59.000 --> 01:35:01.399 it. We put it all together so we can get it out there so 1237 01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:05.880 you all can view it and enjoy it and learn and get some of this 1238 01:35:06.000 --> 01:35:12.439 information and knowledge that you're hungry for, because unfortunately, you know, there's 1239 01:35:12.560 --> 01:35:15.720 just not in our opinions. You know, enough outlets for this sort of 1240 01:35:15.800 --> 01:35:19.279 news. People are afraid of it. They think it's silly, or they 1241 01:35:19.279 --> 01:35:24.359 think that they're afraid that they're ridicule, but it's really important stuff. I 1242 01:35:24.359 --> 01:35:28.960 think you all would agree. This is a genuine mystery and it's fascinating and 1243 01:35:29.000 --> 01:35:33.039 it has an impact on our culture, and that's why we need to pay 1244 01:35:33.079 --> 01:35:38.279 attention and that's why we exist to get that information out there because no one 1245 01:35:38.279 --> 01:35:42.760 else is going to do it. This Hillary Clinton talking about UFOs has got 1246 01:35:42.760 --> 01:35:46.560 the mainstream media getting some information out there, but still very little. They're 1247 01:35:46.600 --> 01:35:50.800 really just talking about what she said, not real research. They're touching on 1248 01:35:50.880 --> 01:35:55.319 it a little bit, but we're getting more of that out to you, 1249 01:35:55.479 --> 01:36:00.720 so which is important. It's great stuff. So thank you all so much 1250 01:36:00.760 --> 01:36:05.680 for listening. I mean, we're just overjoyed that we have so many listeners 1251 01:36:05.720 --> 01:36:10.560 to the podcast and it's a lot of fun to put these together and talk 1252 01:36:10.600 --> 01:36:14.680 to you all. So thank you all so much for joining and we will 1253 01:36:14.720 --> 01:37:12.119 talk to you again next week. Audio's Mood Chattos, your motionless sound in 1254 01:37:12.279 --> 01:37:14.000 the Glass Trees, Hurrid