1 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:21,160 We're back with another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm Emily Dashinsky, 2 00:00:21,199 --> 00:00:24,239 culture editor here at the Federalist. As always, you can email the show 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:28,280 at radio at the Federalist dot com, follow us on x at FDR LST, 4 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:31,480 and make sure to subscribe wherever you download your podcasts, and of course 5 00:00:31,519 --> 00:00:35,479 you're the premium version of our website as well. We're joined today by Jeffrey 6 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:42,399 Trimbath and David Ayers. Jeffrey is the president of the Maryland Family Institute. 7 00:00:42,399 --> 00:00:46,359 You can follow them on Twitter at MD Family Institute. You can go to 8 00:00:46,399 --> 00:00:51,000 their website at Marylandfamily dot org. He's also a husband and a father, 9 00:00:51,039 --> 00:00:54,320 which is very relevant to what we're going to be talking about today. We're 10 00:00:54,359 --> 00:00:58,920 also joined by David Ayers. He is a professor of sociology at Grove City 11 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:03,359 College and an adjunk professor at the Great Franciscan University of Stoubenville. Jeff David, 12 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:07,000 Welcome to both of you. Thank you, Emily, Yeah, thanks 13 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:10,959 for having us. Of course, I want to start just by getting a 14 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,280 little bit of background about both of you. I think it's both of your 15 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:17,159 first time on the show, and you're doing such interesting and important work So, 16 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,200 Jeff, if we could start with you and you could tell us just 17 00:01:19,239 --> 00:01:22,719 a little bit about your background about the Maryland Family Institute, that would be 18 00:01:22,719 --> 00:01:26,680 fantastic. Well, I only let me just begin by saying what a great 19 00:01:26,719 --> 00:01:30,439 fan I am of the Federalist Radio Hour. I've been listening for years and 20 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,200 I'm a huge fan and just can't believe I get to be a guest on 21 00:01:34,239 --> 00:01:37,959 the show today, So thank you for having me on. You know, 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:42,000 I've always been interested in the two things you should never talk about with strangers, 23 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,640 religion and politics. And then when I served in the Bush administration doing 24 00:01:46,719 --> 00:01:52,040 abstinence educational work, I realized that sex and money can also be added to 25 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,640 those list of forbidden subjects. And so I guess that my career has been 26 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,560 sort of touching all the things you shouldn't talk about with strangers. So yeah, 27 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:05,159 I just always been interested in things of faith and things of public policy, 28 00:02:05,239 --> 00:02:10,280 and I feel like that background has really prepared me to launch the Maryland 29 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:15,240 Family Institute, which we did about four months ago, and so we've been 30 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:21,199 going strong with the latest Family Policy Council. There are about forty of us 31 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:27,120 in state capitals across the country promoting all kinds of social conservative priorities. And 32 00:02:27,159 --> 00:02:31,319 so that's a little bit of my background. Such an interesting time to be 33 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,840 doing all of the work. How about you, David, what can you 34 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:39,520 tell us? Well? I got involved in I'm sorry, family oriented research 35 00:02:39,599 --> 00:02:46,599 back in the nineteen eighties, after Reagan became president, you know, it 36 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:50,400 was really interested in that area, pursued it. I tried to pursue it 37 00:02:50,439 --> 00:02:55,240 in graduate school in sociology. Sociology, you know, there are certainly exceptions, 38 00:02:55,319 --> 00:03:00,960 but as a whole, let's just say that the discipline has been hostile 39 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:06,560 to the idea that traditional marriage and family and sexuality and so forth is critical 40 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:09,439 for human welfare. They've been allergic to that idea for a very long time. 41 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:15,240 I've written books and numerous articles on the topic. I've taught marriage and 42 00:03:15,319 --> 00:03:22,360 family classes from this point of view since about nineteen eighty seven. It's gotten 43 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:29,159 increasingly uphill, increasingly well, increasingly difficult, even as the research, the 44 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:36,199 hardcore research on this area just affirms resoundingly more and more and more over time 45 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:45,479 that the welfare of the stable, two parent male female household raising children is 46 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:50,759 absolutely critical to social and cultural welfare. As John Paul the second used to 47 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:55,719 say, as the family goes, so goes society, I think a paraphrasing 48 00:03:55,759 --> 00:04:04,240 it, but that evidence is strong than ever. Social science and higher education 49 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:11,400 circles are more allergic to that idea than ever. So interesting, actually, 50 00:04:11,479 --> 00:04:16,120 because one of my questions is in fact going to be is there increasing awareness 51 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,959 There's there's so much social science. It's just a value of great social science 52 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:25,560 in this direction. Now you know, whether it's Brad Wilcox's new book, 53 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,920 Tim Carney's new book, even the Melissa Curney book. You know, there's 54 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:34,480 so much evidence, so overwhelming evidence. And I'll ask later, maybe we'll 55 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:39,519 table that for now, just about how academia is reacting to this flood of 56 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,120 new evidence. And that actually is a great transition point to the report that 57 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,639 you all collaborated on. I have in front of me a member of your 58 00:04:46,759 --> 00:04:51,240 as You board, our friend Alana Squire's, who wrote about some of the 59 00:04:51,240 --> 00:04:55,079 conclusions you came to. He said, acting on the data in this report 60 00:04:55,120 --> 00:05:00,279 means pursuing the vision of the Maryland Family Institute. And I want to get 61 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,319 into basically what this report found. And I'll start with you, Jeff, 62 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,639 if you could talk us through a little bit of what you found to be 63 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:13,439 the highlights from this survey that would be great. Yeah, well, this 64 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:18,720 was a sort of a case statement for why we launched the Maryland Family Institute, 65 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:26,040 which is an organization that has a vision to see Maryland where God is 66 00:05:26,079 --> 00:05:30,879 honored, life is cherished, families flourish, and religious liberty thrives. And 67 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:36,040 we knew that we needed to have some sort of sort of hace to make 68 00:05:36,199 --> 00:05:43,560 publicly to get folks attention, and so we decided to do this report. 69 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:46,879 I guess it was a little over a year ago, David, where we 70 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:53,160 started to collaborate on this, and so we wanted to do a sort of 71 00:05:53,199 --> 00:05:58,720 a county by county deep dive of family formation trends in Maryland, all twenty 72 00:05:58,759 --> 00:06:03,240 four counties and then see if there was a relationship between some of the most 73 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:09,160 important social pathologies that the state is currently going through. And lo and behold, 74 00:06:09,519 --> 00:06:15,040 there was a very robust coalition a correlation between between marriage, family formation 75 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,600 and these issues. I would say probably the highlight for me from this report 76 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:27,240 is the fact that this relationship can be seen not just in what we might 77 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:30,600 traditionally think of as the hotspots in the state. You know, it's always 78 00:06:31,079 --> 00:06:36,040 everybody kind of loves to pick on Baltimore in Maryland as the place where all 79 00:06:36,079 --> 00:06:40,519 the crime is and all the you know, drug use and all this kind 80 00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:43,959 of stuff. And yeah, Baltimore certainly has its problems. There's no one 81 00:06:43,959 --> 00:06:47,160 who denies that. But boy, we see this correlation across the state, 82 00:06:48,199 --> 00:06:53,959 rural counties, suburban counties, and of course in some of the more urban 83 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,040 counties as well. The statistic that sort of leapt out and kind of slapped 84 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,199 me in the face is that in Garrett County, which is the county that 85 00:07:03,319 --> 00:07:08,720 some of your listeners might know is the home of Deep Creek Lake, Maryland 86 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:15,079 beautiful Lake out the westernmost county. In Garrett County, over twenty five percent 87 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:21,000 of twelfth graders self report that they have four or more sexual partners. Now 88 00:07:21,079 --> 00:07:24,639 I don't know about you, Emily, it's none of my business, but 89 00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:29,160 that when I think about when I was a senior in high school, I 90 00:07:29,199 --> 00:07:34,439 may have tried to get one or two sexual partners, but I certainly would 91 00:07:34,519 --> 00:07:39,399 not even dream of having four or more. And over a quarter of the 92 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:44,519 students there have that that is a problem. And so that's one of the 93 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:48,439 things that this kind of report highlighted so interesting and I want to kind of 94 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,720 ask about the royal urban divide in that. But David, do you have 95 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:59,600 anything to add Well, First of all, these relationships were overwhelmed. You 96 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:05,480 know, in statistics core, a perfect correlation is one. It wasn't unusual 97 00:08:05,519 --> 00:08:11,079 for us to have correlations of seven or eight, which is near perfect, 98 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:16,279 and they held up, you know, when we controlled for different variables and 99 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:22,480 so. But it also was true schools, school success and achievement, tax 100 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:28,240 base, wealth, poverty, the violent and property crime statistics are unreal. 101 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,440 In other words, every area that people would associate with quality of life, 102 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:39,320 no matter what kind of family you're living in. If you're in an area 103 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:43,000 where most people are living in married couple households, you are in a much 104 00:08:43,039 --> 00:08:48,039 better situation. If you're in an area where there's lots of single parent households, 105 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:52,799 you're in a much worse situation. And so you know, it matters, 106 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:58,879 you know, to everyone in some of the more bucolic sections of the 107 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:05,919 Staten Seaboard or Chesapeake Bay western Maryland Mountains are actually some of the worst thoughts 108 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:11,879 and the most neglected by the political leaders in Annatolis That's a really important point. 109 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,960 And that's where I'm curious for both your takes on how representative some of 110 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,240 the information in the survey is nationally because what we've seen and Tim Carney calls 111 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:28,720 this the Lena Dunham fallacy, this idea that people attribute to decad and elites, 112 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:35,639 what's actually really prevalent among people that are influenced by the policies and the 113 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:41,559 decisions and the control exerted in corridors of power. But actually, you know, 114 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:46,879 see different issues with marriage and child rearing and divorce and drugs, and 115 00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,759 you know, Maryland is a state that people may think of as this tiny, 116 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:58,240 little coastal place, but actually has a lot of very rural areas, 117 00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:03,399 has a lot of urban areas, a lot of very affluent suburb areas that 118 00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:05,120 you know, bleed into the urban areas. So could you, and I'll 119 00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:07,360 start with you, David on this one, maybe take us through a little 120 00:10:07,399 --> 00:10:13,080 bit of that dynamic and what stands out in that context from the report. 121 00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:20,600 Well, again, one of the things that stands out is just that we're 122 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:24,840 looking at the quality of the schools and and what's going on in the schools. 123 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:28,279 We're looking at violence. You know, in the hallways of the school 124 00:10:28,639 --> 00:10:33,399 we're looking at trafficking and hard drugs. You know, inside the schools, 125 00:10:33,759 --> 00:10:37,840 we're looking at a neighborhood level violent crime rates. You know, this kind 126 00:10:37,879 --> 00:10:41,159 of thing. Everybody's better off, you know, where more people are married. 127 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:48,799 And the fact is is that in a lot of the more rural areas 128 00:10:48,919 --> 00:10:54,080 of the state, the out of wedlock pregnancy and birth rates are really high. 129 00:10:54,639 --> 00:11:00,440 Cohabitation is really high. You know, fewer and fewer couples are actually 130 00:11:00,519 --> 00:11:09,679 married, and it basically affects all of life. But too in the elite 131 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,720 centers. You know, I grew up in Montgomery County, Maryland. You 132 00:11:13,799 --> 00:11:16,519 can't talk about a more money, more elite kind of a place in Montgomery 133 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:22,559 County, Maryland. Right, Two things I would say about my experience with 134 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:28,679 Montgomery County, Maryland. It's overwhelmingly liberal. So they're overwhelmingly opposing, you 135 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,200 know, the kinds of policies that we would be recommended. In fact, 136 00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:35,200 you may know that a case I think they went all the way to Supreme 137 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:41,360 Court involved whether or not parents have a right to know about sex education and 138 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:46,120 gender identity education going on in their schools. It was Muslim parents standing up 139 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:50,240 against the Montgomery County school districts that was where I grew up. Those are 140 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:56,679 the schools I went to, right And it's just as in Charles Murray is 141 00:11:56,759 --> 00:12:01,440 has noted in so much of his later work, the elites preach these policies 142 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:09,480 that destroy the poor while they themselves are living the success sequence. He's a 143 00:12:09,519 --> 00:12:11,919 Marylander, by the way, if I'm not mistaken, I think he was 144 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:18,600 living area. So thel are living the success sequence. They're they're not getting 145 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,360 they're not having children on a wet you know, they're getting married before they 146 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,679 have kids, and they're staying married at much higher rates. So you know, 147 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:31,320 it's it's kind of the opposite of In other words, they're not they're 148 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:37,799 practicing what they don't preach, but what they're preaching is really toxic. So 149 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,519 but then Montgomery is now increasingly on the front edge of a lot of the 150 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,360 suffering caused by these policies, as a lot of illegals coming into Montgomery County, 151 00:12:50,519 --> 00:12:54,720 a lot of increasingly high crime areas, areas that I used to live 152 00:12:56,279 --> 00:12:58,480 and hang out in, the parks that people can no longer safely go to 153 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:03,799 the park that I used to go to as a boy, but they're still 154 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:11,159 continuing to kind of hold on to those very kind of liberal policies with regards 155 00:13:11,159 --> 00:13:15,000 to marriage, family, sexuality, and so forth. And that is a 156 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,480 national story. I mean, the research bears this out nationally. That's where 157 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:22,960 Brad wilcox recent book comes in. That's where a recent book by University of 158 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,200 Maryland economists came in that just came out almost right when our report came that 159 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:37,879 show that these relationships are true nationally as well. Debt it keeps you tossing 160 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,720 and turning at night. You just can't get away from it. But the 161 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:45,080 truth is the system is actually designed to trap you in debt. Insanely high 162 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:48,120 interest credit cards and loans make it nearly impossible to pay off your debt. 163 00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,679 But there's a new way out of the debt trap. Pivotal Debt Solutions. 164 00:13:52,919 --> 00:13:56,919 Pivotal Debt Solutions isn't like the old school debt relief companies that string your debt 165 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,200 out for years. 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The elites do 174 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:50,799 not Yeah, the elites do not live the way that they the way that 175 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,240 they preach, you know, and that whether that's sending their own kids to 176 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,799 private schools, or whether that's making sure they're in the parts of the counting 177 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:03,559 is have the best schools, you know, whether that's the way they live 178 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,080 their own personal lives or order their own personal lives in a variety of ways. 179 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:13,720 And I actually think that we're going to only turn our country around, 180 00:15:13,759 --> 00:15:18,720 in our state around to the extent that we can influence those elite opinions to 181 00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:26,480 take another look at the policies that were espousing, you know, Brad Wilcox's 182 00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:31,919 mentor at UVA James Davison Hunter wrote a book about fourteen years ago called to 183 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:33,960 Change the World, and one of the points that he makes in that wonderful 184 00:15:35,639 --> 00:15:41,840 book is that you change cultures by changing elite opinions. And so as we 185 00:15:41,879 --> 00:15:45,440 look at the future, both nationally and in terms of the state of Maryland, 186 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:50,200 we only think you're going to turn the culture around when you turn elite 187 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:58,360 opinion around. So, can't overemphasize elite opinion and behavior enough? And let's 188 00:15:58,399 --> 00:16:00,120 shift to the policy realm. As you just mentioned, Jeff, I'll start 189 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:06,440 with you what policies maybe need to be abolished, and then what policies should 190 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:11,159 actually be sort of on the table as legislators and even people on the city 191 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,559 level, I mean, just pull level think about them. Yeah. Well, 192 00:16:14,559 --> 00:16:18,080 as you answer that question, you know, we're always keeping in mind 193 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,519 what is possible in a place like Maryland. You know, Maryland is not 194 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:30,840 like Alabama. It's not like Oklahoma. It's two to one Democrat, it's 195 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,240 veto proof majorities in both houses of the legislature. It's having a very intelligenic 196 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:45,240 and well spoken, but radical leftist governor who has never met a progressive policy 197 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,799 that he didn't appear to love. So the question is, what are those 198 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,320 policies that we can actually prevent from being passed, and one of those that 199 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:59,279 we may be able to repeal, let alone passing in an environment like that. 200 00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:03,200 I think for us, you know, a big part of it is 201 00:17:03,279 --> 00:17:07,000 kind of making the case for some of these policies. You know, obviously, 202 00:17:07,039 --> 00:17:11,519 every parent wants their kid to go to a good, well performing school 203 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:17,799 in Maryland, and the answer to that problem that the legislature has put forward 204 00:17:18,519 --> 00:17:22,880 three years ago is to pass this massive spending program called the Blueprint for Maryland's 205 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:27,920 Future, which passes four billion a year over and above the existing budget limit 206 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:33,640 for the next ten years. So it's a forty billion dollar outlay on all 207 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,680 the ideas that I would be willing to bet my next paycheck will have no 208 00:17:38,799 --> 00:17:44,440 effect, no appreciable effect on academic achievement. And so as that piece of 209 00:17:44,519 --> 00:17:48,920 legislation starts to work through and you're really starting to see this, the redistribution 210 00:17:49,039 --> 00:17:55,599 of resources that that legislation is requiring is actually taking money away from wealthy schools 211 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,160 and giving it to poorer schools county by county in Maryland, and you're seeing 212 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,599 wealthy parents stand up and say, wait a minute, we didn't sign up 213 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:07,480 for that. So I think just one answer your question is, as some 214 00:18:07,599 --> 00:18:12,880 of the negative consequences that previous policies are passed, that will give us an 215 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:18,519 opportunity to make our case for better policies in the future. And what are 216 00:18:18,559 --> 00:18:22,720 some of those better policies. Well, Maryland has a very small school choice 217 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:27,480 program about ten million dollars annually that benefits about thirty two hundred students. We 218 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:33,279 were successful actually in keeping that program in the budget, so that looks like 219 00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:37,519 that will pass this year, so we're grateful for that. We're always thinking 220 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:42,480 about the life issue, and we were able praise the lord able to defeat 221 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:47,920 physician assistant suicide in Maryland. Now, I think it's the seventh year they've 222 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:52,559 brought it up and we killed it even before it had its first vote in 223 00:18:52,599 --> 00:18:59,640 the legislature, which was just awesome. A variety of other programs as well. 224 00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:06,160 We think we can make a difference on sort of penalties for possession of 225 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:11,920 pornography. We're always looking at parental rights in public school issues. Unfortunately, 226 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:17,359 legislators in Napolis want to take away the rights that parents have to opt out 227 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,599 their kids from objectionable materials, and so we're trying to fight against that. 228 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:27,359 There are some crazy ideas to regulate even churches and religious organizations in Maryland to 229 00:19:27,759 --> 00:19:33,920 sort of push the LGBTQ agenda forward, even in churches and religious organizations. 230 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,759 So we're pushing up against that. So a variety of places that we're trying 231 00:19:38,759 --> 00:19:45,839 to fight, all the while realizing that we don't currently have the political numbers 232 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:49,720 to pass a lot of things in Maryland. Yeah, David, what do 233 00:19:49,799 --> 00:19:53,839 you do you have anything to add to that? Well, I mean, 234 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,440 I think one of the challenges that Maryland Family Institute, who they from the 235 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,319 start, is that when you look at the conservative landscapes and where people you 236 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:10,839 know, want to invest both their their time and their their cultural capital, 237 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:17,079 their personal networks and so forth, but also their monetary capital, people want 238 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,240 to take places like Maryland to just write it off. You know, let's 239 00:20:19,319 --> 00:20:25,079 invest in Iowa. Let's let's let's invest in a family Institute in Alabama or 240 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,440 Texas or Iowa, you know, where some of you know, our desired 241 00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:34,599 legislation has a snowsed chance of getting past. I think that's a very very 242 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:40,240 wrong headed approach because if you look at Maryland, what you're seeing is is 243 00:20:40,279 --> 00:20:44,440 that there is amongst first of all, a lot of the Hispanic and African 244 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:48,119 American groups, which are very large in Maryland, you know, very large 245 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,200 portions of the population in Maryland. There is a kind of a quiet and 246 00:20:52,279 --> 00:20:57,720 building descent going on, as as folks in those communities are having to live 247 00:20:57,799 --> 00:21:03,319 with the consequences of these liberal policies and see all around them, what are 248 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:10,160 data shows. They know what it's like to go from Baltimore to Howard County, 249 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:15,000 or what it's like to go from Alleghany County in the west to you 250 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:18,839 know, Anna Arundel County. You know, they know how much better off 251 00:21:18,839 --> 00:21:22,000 these elites have it. They know how much nicer those schools are. They 252 00:21:22,039 --> 00:21:25,640 know they're never going to get their kids into the schools, and they know, 253 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:32,000 you know, just you know, unbelievable problems in the schools for example, 254 00:21:32,039 --> 00:21:34,160 that they're facing. And you know, that's a kind of a bottom 255 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:40,799 line issue with a lot of families and parents, and so, you know, 256 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,480 I don't think they're fool you know, about the importance of the natural 257 00:21:44,559 --> 00:21:48,400 family in their communities and neighborhoods. And I think It's kind of like the 258 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:53,160 Emperor's new clothes, Right, everybody's agreeing with this crazy idea that this guy 259 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:57,720 is actually wearing clothes, when in fact he's naked. But then suddenly somebody 260 00:21:57,759 --> 00:22:03,160 steps forward and says, you know what, he's naked. The Emperor doesn't 261 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,839 have any clothes. You know, the truth is this, And then all 262 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,599 of a sudden everybody jumps forward and said, yeah, you're right. And 263 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:17,160 the other thing is is that places like Maryland, like states like California or 264 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:23,960 bell Otters with exercising enormous influence nationally. I mean, Maryland is home to 265 00:22:25,279 --> 00:22:29,359 probably forty percent of the elites of Washington, DC, if not more, 266 00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:34,200 and they are federal elites. They control policy that affects the entire nation. 267 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:41,119 So for us to basically ignore Maryland really doesn't It doesn't make sense. You 268 00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:44,240 know, there's a lot of a lot that can be accomplished in a place 269 00:22:44,319 --> 00:22:49,000 like Maryland simply because of where it is and what it is nationally. So 270 00:22:49,279 --> 00:22:55,559 you know, I think that we I think that we're doing the right thing 271 00:22:55,599 --> 00:22:59,599 in Maryland, and I think that we're making I think Jeff in his organizations 272 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,200 is making a really good start at doing the right thing now. Actually, 273 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:07,720 just as you were giving that answer, it occurred to me that both Charles 274 00:23:07,799 --> 00:23:11,960 Murray and Tim Karney, Tim at least when he wrote Alienated America and Charles, 275 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:14,559 I believe when he wrote Coming Apart, were both based in Maryland. 276 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:18,680 To your point about the forty percent of elites in DC living in Maryland, 277 00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:22,559 you know, there's a lot of value to studying Maryland as a state, 278 00:23:22,599 --> 00:23:27,039 and I think that brings us back to this question of how we are seeing 279 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:33,440 I guess we could say elites react to the data, because you know, 280 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,680 when the Melissa Kearney book came out that was there was a really interesting reaction. 281 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:41,920 I think some people were responding to it in elite media to defend kind 282 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:48,920 of these libertine postmodern ideas about marriage as a concept, about womanhood as a 283 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:52,400 concept. But it's still gotten to the mainstream. Richard Reeves's book He's Farted 284 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,240 the Brookings Institution, he talked about it on this podcast, made some waves 285 00:23:56,240 --> 00:24:00,240 in the so called mainstream as well. Of course, there's nothing particularly mainstream 286 00:24:00,279 --> 00:24:06,160 about denying the importance and the value of marriage. But that said, what 287 00:24:06,319 --> 00:24:08,279 have both of you noticed. I'll start with you again, David, what 288 00:24:08,319 --> 00:24:14,200 have both of you noticed when it comes to all of this wealth of information 289 00:24:14,319 --> 00:24:18,240 stacking up on top of information, and then more information stacking on top of 290 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,599 that information. There's really so much evidence right now at this point on the 291 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:27,599 sort of importance of family values from just a database perspective. It confirms what 292 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,640 a lot of people know from their common sense. But do you think there's 293 00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:40,400 receptiveness to this in the corners of policymaking, whether that's on the state level, 294 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,440 the local level, or even in academia and in media. What have 295 00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:48,480 you noticed as papers like the one we're talking that you guys worked on have 296 00:24:48,759 --> 00:24:56,000 come out. Well, personally, I think there's more receptiveness, you know, 297 00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,400 when we look at the reception that may be more nationally well known years 298 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,799 have had with precisely these kinds of ideas, like doctor Kierny, like Brad 299 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:10,119 Wilcox and so forth. You know, more and more, even the liberal 300 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:11,880 social scientists are saying, you know, I can't really argue with this. 301 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:15,480 Now. The dodge that they're going to get into, and you see this 302 00:25:15,519 --> 00:25:18,960 somewhere Kearney, is that they're going to then want to say, well, 303 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,559 but we can't really change this, So we're going to have to do more 304 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,480 redistribution to single parent homes in this kind of thing, which is what we 305 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:33,200 see Maryland doing right re routing resources. But that's going to produce a backlash, 306 00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,279 as Jeff also mentioned, and I think that's that. I think those 307 00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:41,319 type of quote solutions and they're not solutions, they don't do anything. They 308 00:25:41,319 --> 00:25:44,559 actually make it worse. But I think they've kind of seen their day. 309 00:25:45,279 --> 00:25:49,440 I don't think the average you know, upper middle class family in Howard County, 310 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:55,319 Maryland, wants to see one more tax increase or one more redistribution of 311 00:25:55,400 --> 00:26:00,519 wealth or school resources. Uh, you know, I think they've seen enough. 312 00:26:00,559 --> 00:26:03,519 But I think they've kind of hit the limit. So I think that 313 00:26:03,559 --> 00:26:07,759 those elites are going to find that they're bumping up against reality when they're trying 314 00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:11,319 to use this dodge, either denying it but saying, well, you know, 315 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:14,920 we admit this is a problem, but we can't fix the family. 316 00:26:15,039 --> 00:26:19,200 So we're just going to be redistributionist types of policies, which then further undermine 317 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:22,920 and we can, you know, the families. So I think that's the 318 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,519 real challenge now. But if I could just say one more thing and then 319 00:26:26,759 --> 00:26:30,880 you know, when I had a chance to be in a hearing for the 320 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:37,640 Maryland Senate to actually our senator was introducing legislation that would have implemented a recommendation 321 00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:45,000 from our report that before considering a piece of legislation that the Maryland Senate would 322 00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:52,200 look at the potential impact on married households of that and try not to advance 323 00:26:52,319 --> 00:26:56,640 legislation. If I'm reading it, try not to advance legislation that would harm 324 00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:03,920 married couples and married couple household And it was kind of interesting because one of 325 00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,200 the gentlemen, the senator, one of the senators, African American gentleman, 326 00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:12,759 highly educated, really thoughtful guy from what I could see, basically said, 327 00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:18,160 I can't find fault with anything in this report. Everything you know is true, 328 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,240 you know, because the report came up. I think they report came 329 00:27:22,319 --> 00:27:26,359 up. Anyway, he said, I know people are better off than married 330 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,039 couple of households. I know communities are better off with married couple of households. 331 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,799 But then he explained why he probably wasn't going to support the legislation, 332 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:37,519 having to do with, you know, diverse definitions of marriage and diverse definitions 333 00:27:37,519 --> 00:27:41,799 of family and needing to respect that, et cetera. But it was really 334 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,960 interesting that he wasn't really willing, you know, to double down on the 335 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:52,359 idea that these types of arguments were not true. He kind of had to 336 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,279 admit that they were true, but then had to kind of explain why, 337 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,920 even though they were true, he couldn't support, you know, such a 338 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,319 kind of a basic common sense piece of legislation that so I think we're I 339 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:11,920 think increasingly those social scientists who are documenting these facts are putting the elites in 340 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:17,519 a very difficult situation that they need to be put in right now in terms 341 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:22,119 of explaining why they're producing the policies that they're pursuing. That's so interesting that 342 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,519 the feedback where he said, I can't disagree with anything in the report, 343 00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:30,960 Jeff do well, Yeah, I just I just want to echo that clearly, 344 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:37,000 and just to kind of pull out the fact of the key role of 345 00:28:37,039 --> 00:28:42,079 the African American community I think will play in answering your question, Emily, 346 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:51,960 in terms of reacting to the current cultural situation. You know, in addition 347 00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,240 to there being just a recognition that these things are true, because not only 348 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,480 do our data tell us that that's true, but they're personal experiences telling us 349 00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:07,720 that that's true, but also a recognition that that's not how decisions are made 350 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:11,720 in Annapolis or in Washington, DC. Frankly, we all know that data 351 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:17,720 may play some role in what legislators do, but it certainly doesn't play the 352 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,559 decisive role in a far more important factor in the decision making that an average 353 00:29:22,599 --> 00:29:30,079 legislator makes is power. And as sort of the Left is being confronted by 354 00:29:30,119 --> 00:29:34,839 the reality of I would say, how God has created human beings to live 355 00:29:36,039 --> 00:29:40,400 in community with each other. They're having to rely more and more on that 356 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:47,519 power in order to maintain their agenda. We had an amazing example of this 357 00:29:47,599 --> 00:29:52,359 in Maryland just last year where the Speaker pro tem of the House of Delegates 358 00:29:52,559 --> 00:30:00,079 was summarily sort of dismissed from her position. African American female Democrat who she 359 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:07,119 had the gall to vote against using Maryland Medicaid dollars to pay for gender mutilation 360 00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:12,559 surgery, and that decision was very much in keeping with her Christian condiction, 361 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:18,039 her Christian faith, and boy, we couldn't have any of that in Maryland, 362 00:30:18,119 --> 00:30:21,160 you know. And a lot of people saw that and they understood, 363 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:25,839 we're now not talking about data or logic or reason. We're talking about raw 364 00:30:26,359 --> 00:30:30,920 power. And I think to the average person Republican Democrat, conserner liberal, 365 00:30:33,359 --> 00:30:37,680 that's a sobering understanding, and I don't think most people really want that, 366 00:30:38,279 --> 00:30:45,920 and so we're there to provide an alternative. Hello, thank you for listening 367 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,799 to the Federalist. 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At the same time, 391 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,559 some of those still those same challenges still obviously exists, but it seems 392 00:32:50,599 --> 00:32:54,799 to me it can often be easier to get what are hot button political topics 393 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:59,519 discussed, or to find common ground on the state level. Jeff, I'll 394 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:01,319 start with you. Do you agree with that? Is there a nuance or 395 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:05,559 texture that should be added to that? Well, I think you're right, 396 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,160 Emily that it is less on a state level. Now, in a place 397 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:15,920 like Maryland, where one side just has such an overwhelming majority, it's kind 398 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:22,240 of easy to be bipartisan or nonpartisan or whatever because the other side, you 399 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:24,599 know, has very little chance of getting anything done, you know, So 400 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,920 it's sort of like, you know, one side is magnanimous and the other 401 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,799 side is kind of you know, resigned to the to the fates, right, 402 00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:39,720 So what's the use? But I also think you do see some opportunities 403 00:33:39,759 --> 00:33:45,799 for progress depending on the issue. And so that's what we've had to do 404 00:33:45,839 --> 00:33:51,319 at Maryland Family Institute is just take each issue on its own and see, 405 00:33:51,359 --> 00:33:54,440 Okay, who on the other side from our perspective, who on the other 406 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,720 side can we deal with, who might share our perspective on these things? 407 00:34:00,039 --> 00:34:01,440 And of course for us and Maryland that means, you know, we have 408 00:34:01,519 --> 00:34:07,279 to talk with and meet with and pray with a lot of Democrats on the 409 00:34:07,279 --> 00:34:10,400 other side of the island, So that's fine. I do think the national 410 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:17,960 polarization is making it more and more difficult for those state based Democrats to follow 411 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:22,599 their conscience on issues like abortion, like transgenderism, some of these social issues, 412 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:28,360 because that national pressure has just basically said, if you're a social conservative 413 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,719 at all, you're not sort of welcome in this party. And so that 414 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:36,039 that sort of really rears itself on the local level. But we've found some 415 00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,920 folks that we can have good conversations with, depending on the issue. What 416 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,760 do you make of that, David Well, First of all, one of 417 00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,880 the insights I remember in the nineteen eighties and end of the nineties, and 418 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,800 one of the great champions of this is that maybe may recalled Dick Army, 419 00:34:53,559 --> 00:34:58,159 and the idea is that the action, the real action and policy should be 420 00:34:58,199 --> 00:35:00,280 at the state level, because you can get more done at the state level, 421 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:06,840 and states are willing to try something and actually oftentimes able to manage it 422 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:12,679 better than you would see done at the national level. Right, and then 423 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:17,840 if it's done on the state level and it succeeds, then you have case 424 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:22,440 studies to support federal legislation to do some of these things. You know, 425 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,159 at the national level enterprise zones. I think we're one of the issue things 426 00:35:27,159 --> 00:35:30,400 that were kind of promoted that way. The farther down that you get in 427 00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:37,679 the levels, and you know, you know, well federalists and federalism, 428 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:42,719 right, the more the relationships are face to face, the more difficult it 429 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:46,440 is to demonize the opposition, because the opposition is living in your town, 430 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,719 their kids are in your schools with your kids, and so just from a 431 00:35:52,760 --> 00:36:00,800 sociological like microsociology, just the interpersonal level, you just are'erencying more of the 432 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:02,840 same things. You're going to the same beaches, you're going to the same 433 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:07,840 parks, You're interacting more. And so I would say not only at the 434 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,440 state level, but as you go down to the county levels and things that 435 00:36:10,559 --> 00:36:20,039 can be done in county level school school districts and county government too. I 436 00:36:20,039 --> 00:36:28,239 think you just the environment is also naturally more more kind of conducive. But 437 00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,320 there's a word that's gotten to be kind of a dirty word on both the 438 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,559 right and the left, and too many circles, and that is you also 439 00:36:35,559 --> 00:36:39,239 have to be prepared to compromise and not get everything you want. And you 440 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:45,280 know, sometimes we've had a difficult time living with those realities. And I 441 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:49,840 think in many ways it's easier to do that at the state and local level 442 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,480 than it is at the federal level as well, because we've created these forces 443 00:36:54,480 --> 00:37:01,199 that punish people for reasonable compromise, and I think that's more difficult to do 444 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:07,280 when you when you're dealing with things at the county and state level. And 445 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,880 just while we're on this topic of policy change, you know, I remember 446 00:37:12,159 --> 00:37:16,039 there's a Brookings paper from Janet Yellen and her husband late nineties talking about how 447 00:37:16,679 --> 00:37:22,280 abortion access. The Actually she was talking about Roe in particular, social science 448 00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:29,960 showed that more babies were created out of wedlock, and the sort of theory 449 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,760 after row, the theory was that, well, women were just having more 450 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:37,039 unprotected sex. It was sort of changed the norms of sexual interaction. They 451 00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:43,960 were doing it out of monogamous relationships. And then that sort of followed from 452 00:37:44,079 --> 00:37:49,920 these these norm shifts. And now though I think conservatives understand because of these 453 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,440 types of trends, why life is really inextricably intertwined with some of the downstream 454 00:37:54,920 --> 00:38:00,360 questions that this report deals with marriage or not even down stream, but interconnected 455 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,920 issues of support deals with marriage, the force, struggle, use, poverty, 456 00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:13,320 et cetera. But do you guys see the non compromising position on life 457 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,039 as something that's been an impediment to coming to the table. I mean, 458 00:38:16,039 --> 00:38:20,440 when I talk about these issues with my friends on the left, it does 459 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,800 seem to be one of the kind of brick walls that you hit with the 460 00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,880 left that if you are pro life, you know there are different challenges to 461 00:38:29,119 --> 00:38:32,840 coming to the table and compromising on things like marriage and divorce and all of 462 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,800 that. Is that true? Do you think has that been true in your 463 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:44,239 experiences or is that maybe something that's mostly active on a national level. Well, 464 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:51,599 I think in Maryland specifically on the question of abortion. You know, 465 00:38:52,559 --> 00:39:00,079 in Maryland basically it's abortion up till forty weeks for any reason. So sadly 466 00:39:00,519 --> 00:39:07,920 that's been the case for decades. And there there was a very robust sort 467 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:15,599 of pro life democrat presence in Maryland in the nineteen eighties. In fact, 468 00:39:15,599 --> 00:39:20,199 there was a famous state senator, Frank Kelly, who philibustered an abortion bill 469 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,000 successfully. He and a lot of his other pro life democrats. The next 470 00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:29,639 year and I think eighty nine he was primary out and you know, really 471 00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:32,880 since that time, it's been kind of a very much a pro abortion state, 472 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,960 and so, you know, sort of abortion purism, I think is 473 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:45,119 a limited kind of you know, utility in a place like Maryland. However, 474 00:39:45,519 --> 00:39:51,880 I will say, you know, at least rhetorically speaking, gosh, 475 00:39:51,920 --> 00:39:54,239 even a fifteen week ban or so, I know, the president form President 476 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:58,800 Trump just came out in favor of that. You know, something like ninety 477 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,960 eight percent or ninety three percent of all abortions take place, you know, 478 00:40:04,039 --> 00:40:08,880 before that time. And so even with that position allowing that many abortions to 479 00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,400 continue, Trump is the one who is seen as the you know, as 480 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,480 the anti choice candidate. You know. So I just I think this kind 481 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:21,519 of issue, when you talk about it as you as you framed it Emily, 482 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:28,079 really does highlight the extreme nature of the pro choice side, at least 483 00:40:28,079 --> 00:40:30,920 here in America. You know, a lot of folks were lauding the French 484 00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:35,840 constitutional amendment that just passed a couple of weeks ago. Well, guess what 485 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,360 France does not allow for abortion past? I think it's week twenty or twenty 486 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:45,000 one, right, So even there there are significant restrictions on it. We 487 00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:49,360 know, in Maryland, pulling I've seen thirty three percent of Democrats want some 488 00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,760 kind of restriction abortion. Well that will just that just is not there's no 489 00:40:52,880 --> 00:41:00,119 room in terms of policy for that view in Maryland because of the rhetoric on 490 00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:06,880 this issue. Yeah, go ahead, Well I was gonna say, I 491 00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,239 want to toss that to you also with the issue of immigration thrown in because 492 00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,599 I mentioned earlier what had happened to Montgomery County and these are two just like 493 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:17,760 highly charged national political issues. And I know that there has been a lot 494 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:22,920 of resettlement of migrants from this recent Biden near a wave in Maryland. And 495 00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:27,519 then at the same time there have been there has been to Maryland immigration of 496 00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:31,039 groups that are very pro family, in Nigerian Americans, for example. So 497 00:41:31,119 --> 00:41:35,599 how has that sort of complicated the picture along with a life question too. 498 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:43,000 Well, it's kind of interesting that immigrants from Africa are unbelievably pro family, 499 00:41:43,159 --> 00:41:47,360 and of course Africa is a place that is almost uniformly very hostile to the 500 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:54,159 gay agenda, I mean unbelievably so so, and then that creates a dilemma, 501 00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:58,679 you know, for the Democrats, because it's it's hard for them to 502 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,119 stand up to them as particular constituencies. I mean, what do you do 503 00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:08,079 when there's a lot of Nigerian parents complaining about pro trans center policies out of 504 00:42:08,079 --> 00:42:13,159 Montgomery County High School where they're sending their kids. You know, it creates 505 00:42:13,159 --> 00:42:17,400 a real again, it creates for real dilumma for them. But I know 506 00:42:17,599 --> 00:42:22,920 that in Montgomery County where I grew up, Wheaton, Maryland was the town 507 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,559 that we were closest to and where we would ride our bicycles and so forth. 508 00:42:28,159 --> 00:42:35,039 Very large Hispanic population there, very large illegal Hispanic immigrant population there. 509 00:42:35,559 --> 00:42:42,360 And from what I've been able to see, the folks who are here legally, 510 00:42:43,679 --> 00:42:47,320 you know, don't like the situation at all, because of course they 511 00:42:49,119 --> 00:42:52,039 they crossed all the tea's and dotted the eyes and did everything required of them 512 00:42:52,559 --> 00:42:57,719 to come to the United States legally, and now they're being lumped in with 513 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:02,800 folks who didn't. And of course mixed in with them are the gangs. 514 00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:08,679 M thirteen has definitely made its presence known in Wheaton, and there's been murders 515 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,000 you know, by M thirteen gang members. And we've reached in a park 516 00:43:14,039 --> 00:43:17,519 where I used to spend day after day when I was a kid, and 517 00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:24,159 again that's where you have even very liberal households beginning to really question the policies 518 00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:29,800 that are coming out of Montgomery County and out of Annapolis with regards to those 519 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,800 issues. So I think those things all get lumped together, and you know, 520 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,800 on the abortion side, I think we on the conservative side have been 521 00:43:38,199 --> 00:43:43,400 haven't done a good job of pointing out just how extremist. You know, 522 00:43:43,639 --> 00:43:50,199 for example, right now, the Democratic Party platform really iss that large portions, 523 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:54,280 you know, really do defend abortion right up to the day of delivery. 524 00:43:55,079 --> 00:43:59,039 And you know, they dodge it, they try to disguise that fact, 525 00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:01,840 and they're afraid to back thought of their support for that, even though 526 00:44:02,119 --> 00:44:08,880 among folks like for example, both Bill and Hillary Clinton were very viscerally kind 527 00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:14,239 of repelled by that whole agenda. You know, Bill Clinton meant it when 528 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,360 he said that abortions should be legal, but it should also be rare. 529 00:44:19,039 --> 00:44:22,199 And you know, that position is long, you know, it has long 530 00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:29,920 kind of disappeared. But I would like to see you know, almost no 531 00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:32,079 abortion except to save the life of the mother and this kind of thing. 532 00:44:32,679 --> 00:44:37,239 But when I support a policy that would eliminate ninety five percent of the abortions 533 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,400 while saying, you know, of course I'm going to continue to press on 534 00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:45,840 the other five percent again except those for the save the life of the mother. 535 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:50,199 Of course I'm going to press on the other five percent. But you 536 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:53,519 know, are we going to basically hold out on legislation that would eliminate ninety 537 00:44:53,599 --> 00:45:01,880 or ninety five percent of them? You know, I think that, I 538 00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:06,559 think that both sides of this debate have got to deal with the extremists in 539 00:45:06,599 --> 00:45:10,239 their mists. And you know, that's probably a controversial statement of our some 540 00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:15,760 members of my particular tribe, but I just don't see any way around it. 541 00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,800 If I can get rid of ninety five percent of the abortions that are 542 00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:22,800 currently happening in the United States, or ninety percent of them, or even 543 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,000 eighty five percent of them, nobody's binding me in terms of what I can 544 00:45:27,079 --> 00:45:30,960 push for later. But taking that now, you know, I think, 545 00:45:31,159 --> 00:45:37,519 I think, you know, we should really take a look at that the 546 00:45:37,559 --> 00:45:42,400 Federal Reserve is lying to you. The watched Alt on Wall Street podcast with 547 00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:45,400 Chris Markowski. Every day, Chris helps unpack the connection between politics and the 548 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:50,320 economy and how it affects your wallet. As j Palell continues to tease about 549 00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,400 lowering interest rates. He needs to raise them. All they're doing is monetizing 550 00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:59,000 our debt while inflation remains hot. Why government's spending way more than it takes 551 00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:00,880 in. Whether it's happening in or down on Wall Street, it's affecting you 552 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,159 financially. Be informed. Check out the Watchdot on Wall Street podcast with Chris 553 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:10,599 Markowski on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Is a super 554 00:46:10,639 --> 00:46:15,400 important conversation, and that's very helpful. Jeff. I'll talk to you that 555 00:46:15,519 --> 00:46:20,920 question about immigration and also just you know, ask if you have any final 556 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,159 thoughts from this whole conversation that you want to make sure are mentioned, and 557 00:46:24,199 --> 00:46:30,199 then I'll go right back to you. David. Yeah, I think the 558 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:37,719 key sector for us in terms of really making a difference in Maryland is working 559 00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:42,559 with those who, you know, may be outside of our own sort of 560 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,719 tible comfort zone, as David just mentioned, you know, and for us, 561 00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:52,159 that is working with the Muslims in Montgomery County, which we have done. 562 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:57,599 I've met with the Coalition of Virtue people and they are fabulous folks. 563 00:46:57,639 --> 00:47:00,880 They agree with us on you know, ninety five percent of what we believe 564 00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:06,000 in Marrilyan Family Institute. They don't believe in Jesus as their savior, but 565 00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:10,719 everything short of that they believe. And so you bet we're working with them 566 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:17,960 and hoping to activate their networks for pro family. And you know, I 567 00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:27,599 would also say just the importance of us locking hands with our African American brothers 568 00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:31,880 and sisters, particularly in Prince George's County in Baltimore City, which we've been 569 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:40,199 interacting with a lot at Delana Squire's community there in Prince George's County. Look 570 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:45,440 on so many things we see eye to eye and they're just a lot of 571 00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,320 them are just kind of going along with this stuff, but internally they don't 572 00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,840 agree with it. And so it's been really fun to get to know many 573 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:59,119 of these spoeks, particularly in Annapolis, to hear that and to figure out, 574 00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:04,039 Okay, how can we work together on this or that for good positive 575 00:48:04,039 --> 00:48:07,760 And so I think in terms of our impact at Maryland Family Institute, it 576 00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:09,519 might look a little different, Our work will look a little different than it 577 00:48:09,599 --> 00:48:15,840 might be in Alabama. Arn't worre in Iowa, but it's encouraging. Nonetheless, 578 00:48:17,679 --> 00:48:24,199 what about you, David Well, you had mentioned earlier about you know 579 00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:30,639 why Maryland and then of course the whole You know how much there is a 580 00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:36,840 correlation with the national scene. You know, at this point, if conservatives 581 00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:43,199 think they're going to advance their agenda without significant support in the Asian communities, 582 00:48:44,199 --> 00:48:51,480 in the Musalem communities, in Black communities, you know, Hispanic communities, 583 00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:57,440 and so forth, you know they're they're simply wrong. And I remember Jack 584 00:48:57,559 --> 00:49:00,199 Kemp talking about that in the nineteen eighties. You know that the Republicans, 585 00:49:00,199 --> 00:49:06,039 for example, have got to find ways to reach because he believed that their 586 00:49:06,079 --> 00:49:12,199 message of basically freedom and family resonated in the African American community. And I 587 00:49:12,199 --> 00:49:15,559 think he was right. He just felt, you know, we hadn't tried 588 00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:19,920 hard enough, and we hadn't you know, put our necks on the line 589 00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,920 to inter aqua folks and accept those challenges and difficulties in reaching out beyond our 590 00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:31,800 tribe. And so Maryland is a great place to work on that because it 591 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:39,840 is it is. It is unbelievably diverse state. It's diverse, far more 592 00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:45,199 than many people realize in terms of its basic land mass and the different situations. 593 00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,639 You have the Bay Area, you have the ocean fronts, you have 594 00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:53,719 the Washington Baltimore metroplex area. You've got the western Maryland Mountains. You know, 595 00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:58,880 very diverse in terms of the daily living, the way that people live 596 00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,400 in these areas, diverse in terms of well but also very racially the verse 597 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:07,360 large Asian American populations, Black populations, is Hispanic, and so forth, 598 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:15,119 large immigrant populations. And so you know what a great place to really develop 599 00:50:15,159 --> 00:50:22,480 those relationships and develop models and patterns for having those kinds of conversations. You 600 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,400 know, where you can really sit down with people face to face, visit 601 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:31,920 folks in their churches and in their neighborhoods, and have these conversations. For 602 00:50:32,079 --> 00:50:38,239 more information on this report, I definitely recommend folks go to Marylandfamily dot org. 603 00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,280 You can read the whole report there. You can read about the Maryland 604 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:45,000 Family Institute. Jeff and David, thank you so much for your time today. 605 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,679 Thank you, Emily, Yeah, thanks for having us. Of course, 606 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,559 you've been listening to another edition of The Federalist Radio Hour. I'm I'm 607 00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:55,800 a L. Kashinsky culture editor here at the Federalist. We'll be back soon 608 00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:00,519 with more. Until then, be lovers of freedom and anxious with the pers 609 00:51:07,039 --> 00:51:13,800 I heard the fame voice, the reason, and then it faded away.