You and up next, and the spinning wheel of guests looking forward to this.
J. Michael Waller, author of Big Intel, How the CIA and
FBI went from Cold War heroes to Deep State villains. He is a senior
analyst for strategy at the Center for Security Policy, President of the Georgetown Research,
a political risk and private intelligence company. As far as his experience went,
well, he was a CIA operative. I mean, nobody knows the
agency like somebody who has been there in the middle of it. And the
tell the Big Intel book that he has written, it's recounting the story of
the rise of Cold War heroics of the FBI and the American intelligence apparatus,
followed by its unfortunate slide into Marxist influenced deep state dysfunction and Big Intel became
Bad Intel. Michael Waller, Hello, good evening, My mouth's working now.
Hey, it's great to be with you. Yeah. Yeah. So,
first off, you were in Central America during just right after the Cold
War. How does that tell me a little bit about your experiences as a
CIA operatives? Oh? Right, at the height of the Cold War.
It was in the Bari in President Reagan's first term, about halfway through his
first term, and the biggest threat to US at the time, apart from
the Soviet strategic missile threat, was the Communist expansion on our southern border,
building a Soviet beachhead in Nicaragua and then Nicaragua spreading communism by providing shelter for
Marxist revolutionaries from the whole region. So I went down there still starting as
an undergraduate, to find intelligence on exactly how the Soviets were supplying Communist terrorists
and roam wents in the region. All right, So this led to now,
now Noriega came after this, correct, that was down in Panama.
Yeah, so he emerged shortly after. I don't remember the exact time,
but he, his predecessor, Omar Torios was was one of our frenemies.
You know, he would be he would be he worked with us, but
he would also constantly establish in the back and we sort of just dealt with
him. Noriega then succeeded him, all right. But in uh in Nicaragua,
who was in charge then who had the Communists put up as their as
their puppet so to speak. That was a Huda led then as today by
Daniel Ortega. Yep, I do remember the name Uh, yeah, so
it's still led by the same people in Nicaragua. Well, yeah, some
of them have died off, but now Ortega and his wife are running it
as a family, family dynasty, and they're lining up their son to take
their place once they're gone. Uh. The Russian government has an Interior Ministry
office there for their internal affairs, so they treat Nicaragua as part of their
internal affairs. And they're still they're not they're not promoting terrorism that we know
of, but they're certainly helping facilitate relations with Iran's proxies in the region.
And so their trouble for us forty years later because we sort of walked away
thinking that peace was at hand. Are these Central American governments, particularly the
Triangle that you always hear about in relation to our southern border. Are those
communist influences, Marxist influences part of the drive to send the worst of them
to our country? Is that part of the mission of the Marxists who are
trying to overthrow America? Well that's part of it. So imagine you're running
a country and you've got a huge prison system and you have a dictatorship in
the courts. Does what you wanted to do. What a great thing,
but to empty your prisons of your you know, hardcore convicts and just dump
them in the United States. Yeah. So that's what a lot of these
countries are doing. And not just Venezuela and in some Central American countries and
elsewhere, but countries even in Africa are dumping their prisons to send to the
prisoners to Panama to infiltrate them up through the Mexican border as migrants and refugees.
It's amazing you say that. Once upon a time, the FBI and
CIA fought America's enemies at home and abroad. Now there are tools of a
growing police state. And you know that's the other danger, is the Big
Intel becoming Big Brother and forcing American citizens into something that doesn't even resemble a
constitutional republic. The Marxist moves have also been forcing these agencies into things like
DEI diversity, equity inclusion, and and the Pride movement and all of the
transgender stuff that is so prevalent right now, the latest fad to take down
America, I believe, and that's part of the Marxist push as well,
because you know, you don't see communists China harping on DEI, do you
not at all? Nor do you see Putin doing it either. No,
they know it's destructive of their societies. And this is part of DEI is
you know, a lot of people just buy into it because it sounds good.
But we all, you know, we're a diverse country, and we
all want equality and we all want to include people. And that's okay,
but when it's combined to a single ideology whose goal is not real democratic representation
of people, but impose people based on criteria that have nothing to do with
competence or merits, and then put them in jobs where it's never enough.
No matter how much you give the DEI crowd, they're going to be demanding
more and more and more and more. So first it's tolerance, then it's
accepted, and now it's supremacy that they want, and they're doing it to
wreck our institutions. There was never anything, for example, in Obama's twenty
eleven Executive Order on Diversity, Equity and Inclusion, there was nothing about making
these government agencies run better by imposing DEI. Never it was anything said about
making the CIA work better or the FBI work better by imposing Dei. It
was just Dei for Dei's sake, and it was really to the net effect
was and that was part of the goal of the real people imposing it,
was to cause resentment, to so inviting, to so demoralization among the productive
people, and then a sense of entitlement among the unproductive and incompetent people being
brought in all in the name of the cultural revolution. Do you believe that
when you were with the CIA, that the agency, or I guess they
did, they still call it the company, was it had been infiltrated at
all by any of this garbage. Yet, well, this is how I
got in because I was never a CIA employee. I was working directly for
CIA Director Casey and his designee in the White House as part of a private
network that CIA, a director Casey was funding out of his pocket. He
was a very wealthy man, and during World War Two he was in the
OSS, the Office of Strategic Services, and he knew then as now that
you have to really improvise and to do things out of official channels in order
to get things done. So Casey learned right as soon as he went into
the CIA that the CIA could not detect Soviet support for terrorism. Even though
there was information, even though journalists were on this and scholars, nobody in
the CIA could come to a conclusion that this was true. So he set
up privately funded groups out of his pocket in secret, which I was one
of the members, to find the facts for this, and then to bring
back the physical evidence so that President Reagan could use it, so that Congress
could use it, going around the whole CIA. So we knew at the
time there was a liberal bias and a weakness in analysis, and you know,
maybe certain people were compromised because they weren't even recognizing the obvious. But
that was so that was the beginning of understanding there was a problem. And
I was just a kid. I was just an undergraduate in college. So
imagine forty years later watching this whole thing and keeping contact with people inside the
intelligence community this whole time, educating and training them. So seeing this deterioration
take place, it's really shocking. So what was bad in the early nineteen
eighties has just the bottom is falling out of it now. J. Michael
Waller, author of Big Intel, How the CIA and FBI went from Cold
War heroes to Deep State villains seven hundred WLW were you from Atlantic in the
news today summer? You're talking with J. Michael Waller, author of Big
Tell Dig Intel, how the CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes to
deep state villain and Michael, I guess there's no more telling thing for me.
Before all of the DEI stuff really started to sync in to these intelligence
agencies in our country, we had people like John Brennan, a Communist Party
member, as the head of the CIA. How did that happen? Well,
this was part of the problem, imagine. And he's not alone.
No, he can't be an anomaly. He was brought in as he voted
for the Soviet agent, running openly as a Communist for President of the United
States at the height of the Cold War, to turn America into a Soviet
Republic. This was John Brennan. And then right away, just a few
years later, he gets a top secret security clear it's full recruitment into the
CIA and then borrows in like they do, marching through institutions, burrows into
the CIA to ultimately rise up and run the agency. It's amazing to me
that this could happen, but uh, but you know, it's it's a
world of double agents. And spies. What what do people think they know
about the CIA as opposed to what really goes on. I've always been curious,
I mean, is it really Are they really spooks? I mean,
are they really that dangerous? Are they that covert? Could they could they
sell your you know, could they sell you a big truck of ice cream
if you were an Eskimo? What are the guys like in the agency generally?
I mean, I'm not talking about this Marxist influence that's crept in,
that's you know, been implanted into the agencies, But generally what really goes
on that you can talk about. Oh, well, it's it's very mixed
that well, I'm not telling any secrets here. I mean it's it's you
have a very mixed variety of people in there. Like on the operation side,
you get some of the most courageous, most creative people you'll ever find
anywhere on Earth, and we all owe a lot to them, and so
so they they they're in there, they're doing their mission. They're the ones
tracking the terrorists, targeting them, droning them, all that other stuff that
needs to be done. And they're you know, they're serving Uncle Sam and
the Red White and blue. But on the analytical side, think of think
of the Ivy League. I think of American universities in academia, where plagiarism
is okay and genocide is relative sure, and you must adhere to a certain
ideological cultural Marxist orthodoxy in order to get ahead, or you can't even define
a woman, right. So oh so now you're taking the truth right there.
Woman is woman and man is man. But no, that's not true
anymore because we're using surgery and hormones to make the different reality. So then
they're synthesizing truth to make to make untruths true, and they're not doing it
a in like a true lies kind of way where it's something cool and mysterious.
To help secure America abroad, it is to lie to each other,
to lie to ourselves, and to promote lies and lying as a way to
advance to the intelligence community. So once you're officially subscribing as the CIA and
the FBI do to gender theory in queer theory and the cultural Marxism that they
never acknowledge but that is absolutely manifest in all of this, these become the
post truth operating systems of the FBI and the CIA. So while you've got
great people in there, and some fine analysts too, but they're not a
majority. And if you look at how the CIA has been recruiting openly,
look at their advertising over the past ten years, they're only going after woke
people. Oh, they're targeting DETI people. They're targeting your Rainbow Flag militants.
And it's not that we need people from all walks of life in the
FBI and the CIA. We need to understand the people and the organizations and
the places that they're watching and working with. We need FBI agents to work
in certain communities and to persuade juries and to prevent evidence. So that's not
the issue. The issue is this forcing everyone inside to conform to this new
extremist view. And if you do not conform, and if you do not
openly advocate, you are considered the source of a toxic work environment and you
can't stay, you can't be promoted, and you're not welcome. Gosh,
whatever happened to meritocracy and the best people you know, big Intel, Well,
that's why the business community is getting rid of DEI. Oh yeah,
that's going away. But let me ask you this. J Edgar Hoover kept
the FBI from this communist infiltration pretty much during his reign. Give me,
give me an example of a difference between somebody like j Edgar Hoover and James
Comy or Christopher Ray. Anarchists round them up and deport them to Russia.
That was his first job in the Justice Fiday. It was a terrific job,
but his whole life, nineteen twenty until his death in nineteen seventy two,
he had a consistent warning. This is how communists work. They're infiltrating
our societies. They're infiltrating our government. They're infiltrating every agency. They're infiltrating
the courts and the legal profession, and the colleges and the law schools,
and the churches and the seminaries and the teaching unions and every part of culture
you can imagine, Hollywood journalism. We have to be watchful of them,
and we have to make sure that they cannot penetrate our societies, because they
will infiltrate us and destroy us from within. Well, I mean, Khrushchev
told us nineteen sixty or whatever it was, that we will crush you from
within. We'll take over your country without ever firing a shot. I mean,
that's as blatant as you can get. And that was sixty plus years
ago, right, right, And he was he was correct. He didn't
need nuclear weapons as long as he had some version. But then these things
get a life of their own. So where you have and I traced this
back and big Intel I was wondering, how did it get to the point
where Obama could just simply impose executive orders on DEI and everyone in the system
starts adapting it and militantly pursuing it. This is something that began one hundred
years ago. It began at the Marx Engels Institute in Moscow, and they
the reasoning was, we cannot overthrow Western societies the Bolsheviks style. We're going
to have to do it by subverting their cultures. Making people reject their own
countries, making people reject the principles of their countries, the Judeo Christian ethic,
or the work ethic, or the family and the nuclear family and church
and all these other things. Morals make them reject everything, get them to
fight against each other and turn against one another, so they believe in nothing.
And when they believe in nothing, then then the Marxists can just come
right in and take over the institutions. And this through what another Communists called
the long March, like Chairman Mao's Long March in China, the long march
through the institutions. So you infiltrate and take over each labor union, each
teachers organization, you know, each each Hollywood studio, each newspaper, whatever
you can, one by one, law schools and so forth, until over
a period of decades is the tipping point where now they end up running the
system. Big Intel, how the CIA and FBI went from Cold War heroes
to deep state villains. The author J. Michael Waller, thank you so
much for your time, and I pray that there are enough people who still
love this country that we can take it back there are Vote for the sheriffs
this year, because the sheriffs are our last line of defense. No,
the FBI needs them at the state and local levels, and the sheriffs are
the ones who can give authority to do that, and they can deny authority
to do that. So work on your sheriffs and support the good ones and
elect other good ones. Excellent, Thank you so much for your time.
Mike's good to be with you all right, it's night cap. I'm seven
hundred WLW. And if you don't know our next guest, well, this
must be your first time listening to anything ever on the radio in Cincinnati.
Because this guy has been a staple, He has been a mainstay. He
has been a banner carrier for Great Radio in Cincinnati, specifically sports, but
he branches out occasionally. He also works at the Point Arc, which is
a fantastic organization in northern Kentucky, and he's also been known to frequent Strauss
tobacconists from time to time. He is also my friend Andy Furman the fur
Ball, joining us once again. Hello Andy, Now are you U should
have put my friend first to the That's the most important part of it.
No, I saved the best forast. You saved the ball. Don't you
know that? He didn't know that, didn't know that. You know,
it's funny because I'm almost embarrassed their long introduction. You could bag that because
I'm here just to talk. But the average man, the common man,
that's who I am. And wait, wait a minute, you're gonna do
your Bill Cunningham impression. No no, no, no, no, no
no no, I mean the everyman Caughte the everyman in But you know,
I'm gonna let you open it up. Although I have a couple of things
percolating in my mind, but I want to see where you're gonna go in
there. I don't like it, I'll reel you back, you know.
Two days, two days after almost I'm basking in the glow of my Kansas
City Chiefs victory over the San Francisco forty nine ers in Las Vegas on Sunday
night. It happened just as I thought it would, a miraculous come from
behind at the last moment touchdown from my hero Patrick Mahomes to mcole Hardman,
who didn't even know he was in the game, and cut the game winning
catch. But it was such a great game. People, I hear people
all the time just that was a terrible game. How was that a terrible
game? Overtime? How is that a terrible game? Andy? Tell me
that I haven't heard that. I will tell you this. The first half
was a little slow, but there's a lot of drama coming into that second
half. In the overtime kind of put the icing on the cake. And
look, I think there's a lot of takeaways from my game and number one,
I think you could maybe make a spot right now on Mount Rushmore for
Andy Reid. There's no doubt in my mind. He won with Donovan McNabb
in Philadelphia. He's running now in Kansas City, so definitely there's a spot
there for him. And honestly, you're gonna got to say that maybe right
now, your man Patrick Mahomes is the goat now. He is the best
quarterback in the National Football League right now, hands down. And after I
watched that game, I said to myself, I scratched my head as I
read social media, and a lot of the Bengals are running on me.
You know we'll be back next year. I don't know. Yeah, there's
a lot of questions on that Bengals team right now, and I don't think
they can stay on the same field with these Kansas City Chiefs. And maybe
a lot has to do with coaching. Certainly a lot is Patrick Mahomes,
no doubt in my mind, but I think a lot of coaching as well.
And Andy Reid is one hell of a coach. Andy, there is
no question I agree with everything you said. It'll probably be the last time
in this entire conversation that I will say that, but but I made I
made the illusion last night when I was talking with our mutual good friend wild
Man Walker, and I don't think it's too far off, too far off
the nose to say this. It reminds me a lot, two different sports,
two different eras of Phil Jackson, Michael Jordan, the Chicago Bulls,
Andy Reid, Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas City Chiefs. It just feels the
same. There's a familiar arity to this destiny in the making and this dynasty
in the making that reminds me of those Bulls teams that won back to back
to back twice, not once, but twice. It seems like it is
destiny that they are. They are a dynasty. What do you think,
Well, I think the only similarity you're onto something. The only similarity is
that those bull teams had mj and a great cass of characters, and this
Kansas City chief team has Patrick Mahomes and a tremendous defense which basically won the
game. And there's a takeaway from this game that I think that we need
to discuss, which honestly, I don't think anybody else has. I need
the takeaway is Travis Kelsey certainly, you know a UC guy. A lot
of people around town are happy for him and his brother is family, the
tail of swift relationship, the leading, the leading, the leading receiver in
the game. By the way, even after he caught one pass for one
yard in the first half, he wound up being the leading receiver in the
game. And therefore because the defensive linebacker was out for basically San Francisco or
secondary. But no because because no, no, no, not because because
because he got Andy Reid's attention. That's why. Okay, And I'm glad
you brought that up. Okay, no one mentioned this. Everybody thought it
was a big joke. And I saw a picture today in one of the
tabloids saying that Travis Kelsey basically was saying whispering and Andy Reid's here when he
shoved him, he said how much I love you. That's the caption.
Okay, here's my take on it. And maybe I'm way out in left
field, and I'm sure if I am, you'll reel me in. Okay.
I saw some anger management there. I get I get it. In
the world of sports, this tension, this pressure, people explode. I
see Draymond Green do it on more than one occasion with the Golden State Warriors.
It happens in the world of sports. Is it good? Is it
been? I don't particularly like it, and I don't think it's good.
I don't think it's healthy. Okay. I didn't like the fact that he
pushed his coach, and I saw some comments on social media saying I would
have benched the guy for the second half. You know what, I wouldn't
because why punish the rest of the team for one stupid move on one guy?
But here's the problem. I have this anger management thing. Can he
will we see a situation like that with him and his quote girlfriend Taylor Swift
one day. Maybe he pushes her, maybe he smacks her. I'm just
saying. I'm just saying I saw an ugly part of Travis Kelce trevisa Travis
Jels player. It's the Hall of Famer and he's an egomaniac on the stage.
Everybody thought it was funny with the singing of Peva las Vegas. Come
on, really, real, it is just a little one. What's wrong
with Viva las Vegas. You just won the ultimate prize in your sport for
the second year in a row. Of course, he's screaming Viva Las Vegas.
He was playing to the crowd, Andy that for himself. How do
you wanted it to be bigger for him than anybody else? And you know
it and you won't admit it. I have no problem with him doing it.
I'm just stating the obvious. He wanted it to be about him.
It was just as much about him as it was anybody else up on that
stage because he was he was intrigral to the victory. And he come on,
really, who caught the win? He touchdown? Did he talk?
Did he sing? You don't even know his name? He didn't. Cole
Hardiman, I know his name. It's my team, But Cole Hardiman,
I know his name. I know, I know I brought out there,
given given the lifted to the crowd. He didn't do anything. He just
was very quiet when they gave him the microphone. Today, you know the
team advert we won. I'm happy. That's it. It was all about
Travis Kelsey and it always has been. I get it. That's his personality.
Is he attacked the mayor of Cincinnati in a classless move. It was
I thought it was classless. And you know what if I was the mayor.
I want to said something. I want to say. You know what
you see, Grid, I'd expect more. Andy ass had purvol needs to
be made fun of. He he really is really the politician that I've seen
in a long time, since Gavin Newsom. Maybe this is what politicians who
you like? Besides Trump? Who should go to jail? What politician do
you like? How is Donald Trump supposed to go to jail? He's no
good He's not a good person. He hates everybody. He's a liar.
Every time he moved his lips, he lies and you know it. But
that's okay, Joe Joe Biden's been lying for fifty years. You know you're
talking about Donald Trump. So I'm giving you and an alternate point of view.
And Donald Trump is not a liar. He's not a racist, he's
not a hater. Look, let's not go down that road. Come on,
you you went down you went down that road. You went down that
road. I don't want to so come on. He's making fun Micky Haley's
husband. Wait, Mickey Haley's husband left him, left her because grise.
He didn't want to be with her. He's in the military. He made
fun of the military year ago, he said those people are cowards? Are
you kidding me? Are you talking about He's talking about the He's talking about
the idiots. He's talking about the idiots in charge of the military, and
they are cowards, including the current Secretary of Defense, Lloyd Austin. That's
fine. Look, I'm not going to change your mind. I'm not here
to argue with you. I'm talking about Travis Kelsey, what happened on Sunday,
and I worry about his girlfriend. I love. See this is the
point. I love toxic masculinity, especially in the NFL. We need more
of it. We don't need more diversity, equity and inclusion. We need
men who are real men who are loud and proud and are ready to celebrate
a great victory. And that's all he was doing on that stay and have
anger management issues and push their coach. Real nice. So you're suggesting,
you're suggesting that, you're suggesting that it is a commissioner suspended of the thirty
days. You're well, he's always been a thug. Uh. Anyway,
you're suggesting that that Travis Kelcey is going to be guilty of abusing Taylor Swift.
That's what that's what you said. You are concerned about worry about the
fact that you're concerned about it, perhaps anger management issues, you know what.
I said that that just gives you a chance to write a whole new
album songs and make more more millions of dogs. I mean, if you
want to make the joke out of it and funny, you know what.
I hope it never happens. But should he smack her when they have an
attitude or push her down the front of steps. I hate to come on
this show with you and say I told you so, I told you and
someone you know. Look, he's an egotistical guy. And there's a lot
of people with big eagles that play professional sports. He's one of them.
There are a lot of people who with big eagles who do sports talk.
Andy you mention if you say me, no, I didn't you have an
opinion. There are many people, and they're very successful. Name one you
want me to name names. I think Colin Coward is a big ego on
Fox Sports Radio. I think that he thinks whatever he says, he thinks
he's right. He's like a college lecturer. You know. I don't dislike
him. Stephen Smith, but Stephen A Smith has one of the biggest he's
a blowhard. Yes he is Alard. So there's one I named one,
Andy, that's not you. How about that? All right? That's fine.
I mean I think I'm a lot different than Stephen A. Smith.
First of all, he's made a lot of errors and statistical errors and factual
error. I don't think he prepares as much as you think he does.
He's got an opinion, that's great. That's what made him, I guess
popular. And I think he's a gas bag. And I think he just
goes after people. He's allowing And have you ever made an error? I
certainly have, and I'll be the first to it. Have you ever heard
any a million dollars a year to make errors? First of all, all
had a staff on them. It's all a matter of what you get paid
to whether you can be error free or not in your mind. No,
if you if you make more money than someone else, you should be more
of a quote expert in that opinion and that field than the other person.
If I go to a doctor who's a stir surgeon who just got out of
medical school, he's not going to be making a guy who's been a surgeon
for thirty years. I'm going to the cons for thirty years. If I'm
going on a plane, I'd rather see a pilot with gray hair than a
guy would appeard. Okay, that's what I'm saying. If you've got more
experience being paid more, he's probably better. There are monkeys that are probably
better experts, and they're getting paid like bananas and peanuts than a lot of
people I see on TV that are getting paid tons of money. The money
doesn't matter, Andy, it matters does your bank, but the talent you
have the money. There are a lot of people making a whole lot more
money than me, and I'm sorry they're not as talented or more talented than
I am. You know what people are paying they are no, they are
in the mindset of people that are writing the paycheck, they are more talented.
Maybe maybe you're not making that money. Maybe let the buyer beware.
Maybe they should lose their jobs for that kind of mishandling of the company's money,
and they're misjudging of talent. Very well, be Gary, Jeff,
you may be right, But all I'm saying is this, you know,
don't try to coat yourself and saying well, I'm better than them. No,
they're making more for either they know so much they know someone to hire
them, they are better than you, or they're in the right place at
the right time. That's all I'm saying. They've got the reason why they're
making more than you are. They've got a lot of guys in the sports
business are making more than me. They've got naked pictures, they've got leverage
over the executive And you know what I have. I have. I have
at least an iota of integrity. I would never do something like that to
leverage my talent, because you know what I was told by somebody, a
program director in fact, in this building, Andy wants. He said,
Gary, Jeff, you know a lot of people in this building that you
work with want to be somebody. And I said, well, tell him
that I've been somebody, and it's not all it's cracked up to be Andy.
And that's my philosophy. I've already been to the mountaintop, okay,
and I'm going to number one stations, making lots of money and doing it
now for almost forty four years on a consistent basis. I feel like I'm
in pretty good shape as a talent. In this. I want to give
you a hug. Oh you give you a hug. Oh it Tomorrow's Valentine's
Day. That's sweet. That's sweet. Tomorrow's Valentine's Day. And you just
gave me a radio hug. This is so nice. Yes, I did?
Yes, Can I have flowers to do? You agree with me?
You agree me with this? This anger management? I think he needs a
little help, That's all I'm saying, Travis Kelsey, give at professional.
Some people listening to some people who listen to us might think we need anger
management the way we go at each other. Something we don't. We only
have it will wait together on the radio. Think about that. Well,
maybe maybe maybe Travis. Maybe Travis Kelcey only has it when he's in the
biggest game of his life and he's fighting to win. He's a competitor.
He's just trying to win the game. And the best, best best way
to win the game is to be in a competitor and win it all costs.
And you know what, if you're the answer, which he was in
the second half, then Andy Reid should have had him in on the play
the pro checco fubbled. That's what I was that's what's complain about. And
Andy Reid is a great coach, great coach, Hall of Fame coach,
No doubt he has. He filed charges against Travis kelcey. Look has he.
I'm sort of gonna laugh about it one day. I'm sure it's gone
and forgotten. There's no doubt. Mind, I'm laughing. There's the difference
between being competitive and having an anger management issue. And I see, Look,
Patrick Mahomes is competitive. He didn't have an anger management issue. I
just se anybody else at an issue like that Travis Kelsey did, Patrick Patrick,
Patrick Mahomes doesn't have an anger issue problem. In that game that the
Chiefs, did he push the coach? No, but he was. He
was following referees so screaming in their face after the call Andy, because he
wanted to win. He's a competitor, Travis Kelsey, Travis Kelsey is a
competitor. All he did was bump the old man. Okay, that's all.
Yeah, So okay, that would be like you know a kid in
school bumping his teacher. All right, might just say the only do was
bump you know, his girlfriend. Okay, that's all he did. You
know, he just bumped her. You never know, she might like that,
she might like to be bummed. I don't know. It's not my
business if it's godless some people some people. This is my takeaway from the
game. That's all I'm saying. This is what I saw. Your takeaway
from the game is taking us to a private relationship between Travis Kelsey and Taylor
Swift. And you're worried for Taylor's private it's not private. But when they're
off camera and they're alone together and the lights are out, that's their business.
And Andy, you know it's a Valentine's shake, no doubt in my
mind. But you know what, when the lights are on there alone together,
any shoves are that will be everybody's business because everybody will know what's the
difference. What's the difference between a salt and a simple shove or a bump.
I'll go, I'm saying this, Sit it together and then get it
to a big argument. And the next thing you know, you see Taylor
Swip with a black eye? Is that is that private? Again? The
scenario out, Andy, You're you're missing the point that if Taylor Swift has
a black eye. Courtesy of Travis Kelsey, that's that's good for a lawsuit
and probably two albums worth of material for Taylor. She'll make more money two
albums. Two am, I'm what I think of It was the best half
time show, the best halftime show. They're saying, I don't. I
don't watch the halftime shows. I did see a little bit. There was
a guy. There was a guy from Cincinnati who was up on that stage
with us on roller skatings and turning back flip. He almost hit will I
Am in the head with his skates. It was great. It was great,
she really was. You don't understand why my wife is such a big
Usher fan. She just loved it. I just took a little break at
halftime. That's what I did. I want back and started running some more
leavers. Well, you know you're talking to me. She's probably thinking about
Usher right now. Andy. You might want to go, you might want
to go put out that fire. No, basically she's on a phone looking
at the halftime show again, right Andy. Remember you can't spell Furman without
f you God, Kevin Fever. We've got the cure. The Ford sixty
ninth and you will. Indianapolis Boat, Sport and Travel Show February sixteenth through
eighteenth and twenty first through the It is that nightcap not seven hundred WLW carry
Jeff back with you and with us in this segment is Dave Cale and former
Bengal Robert Jackson. We're talking about Autism Rocks and a very very special event
that is just ahead. We're just days away from the next big Autism Rocks
fundraiser. It's a unique organization and it's a needed organization. Any parent who
has an autistic child, and there are more than there should be probably in
this country, can tell you that any kind of assistance that they can get
autism has some stigmas to it, and also it doesn't necessarily get the play
and the press that some of these other causes do. So I'm glad that
you guys are rallying around parents and people with autism once again. Dave Kale,
good evening, Thank you and thank you for having us on. Yeah,
and Robert Jackson, former Bengal, It's great to have you as well,
sir. Likewise, thank you for having us. When did you play
for the Bengals again, Robert, My first year was the eighty one season,
my rookie year. I missed that season, going to the Super Bowl
with a knee injury, and then played up to eighty seven, missed the
eighty eight Super Bowl, and then came back in eighty nine. Well,
you know what, you didn't miss a whole lot. I tell some of
my friends. Well, he said, you can blame me. I'm the
one that lost the game because I didn't play. So it had nothing.
It had nothing to do with Stanley Wilson chasing cocaine on Biscay Boulevard. It
was all Robert Jackson. You can blame it on me. I've got big
shoulders. Very well, Well, tell me before we get into the event,
Robert, since his first time we've ever spoken, tell me a little
bit about you and your background, how you got started in football, where
you came out of and uh, and how you landed with the Bengals.
I started, Uh, got many many moons to go up in Allendale,
Michigan. Okay, I tell people. I tell that people. That's where
it started, you know. And I got recruited to play in the MAX.
So I chose Central Michigan and that there I was drafted to the Bengals
and you know, had a nice career. You know, the eleventh round
draft choice and played eight years. You know they you know back then,
well right now would be a free agent or mister irrelevant. Oh yeah,
well you know, mister mister irrelevant did play in the Super Bowl, didn't
win, but did play the Super Bowls. They are good things. There
are good things that come in the later rounds, Robert, and you were
definitely one of them, and thank you. It is a pleasure. And
eight years in the NFL, I don't care. I don't care where you
were drafted. If you play eight years in the NFL, that's quite an
a compliment, a complishmation in and of itself, because the average, the
average NFL career, as you know, is very very short. There's a
very small window because it's such a physically demanding sport and a lot of people
just don't make it. Even when they've made it to the National Football League,
they don't make it more than a couple of years generally. So what
was the initial spark or inspiration for you to be interested in autism, Rocks
and to become part of this. Robert, I had nothing, no knowledge
of autism. And then when I met Dave, I've seen him working with
his son, and then we did a walk out. It was old Cony,
Dave, this she was and I saw parents that had kids, you
know, with a disability or a special need, and I just saw a
love, unconditional love that you know, you until you get in that circle
and know the parents and the kids, you won't understand the true meaning of
love. I mean, it's it's frightening the love that I that I see
these parents and kids share and just want from other people. And that's been
the spark and that's been the goal. And you know, we have a
program on Monday night where we call them fit one try to fit one more
kid back into the community, you know, because every human being has the
right to be treated equally. That's my goal. Well, no doubt,
Yeah, no doubt about that. And there are accommodations that we make for
one another, whether we're talking about autism or anything else. If we truly
care about people, there are you know, people have to accommodate for me
sometimes. And I'm not on the spectrum, I don't think, Dave.
For you, you have your autistic son, What when did you first know
that your son was different? Well, actually it was at his six month
checkup when he was two years old, going on three years old, and
his pediatrician had his own little ways of delivering things. So I'm in the
room and he's telling me, well, you know, his head size is
this, and that's in the right percentile. His weight is this, and
he's in the right percentile, and he's going through things, and then he
just pops out and goes and so, by the way, how long has
he been autistic? And I went, what what is that word? Tell
me about what you just said? And my education began that day, right,
And there are so many different levels on the autism spectrum. I mean,
there is profound autism and it's you know, it's really a challenge,
as you probably know, where there's just no communication skills, you know,
and it's so hard to get that person to come out and actually make themselves
acknowledged, and then they're you know, people always reference Rainman and you know
the savant side of autism, which does exist. There's Asburgers. There's all
kinds of different ranges of autism. And I don't know if you can kind
of explain for the listeners, you know, the different levels of autism and
the different needs that certain patients have well. Parker had has what's called pervasive
developmental disorder not otherwise specified. There's a little bit more to his diagnosis than
that, but that's basically the part of his brain that should have been able
to develop communication between his speech. He's delayed in that most of his struggles
are with annunciation, but he wore every day trying to get better at his
annunciation. He's in speech therapy, and he's in a therapy that kind of
integrates his skills as far as social skills, and he's part of Roberts Fit
one program as well. I would say he's probably delayed maybe half his actual
age. He's going to be nineteen here in March, and he's probably delayed
to the point of where he's probably more like a ten year old eleven year
old on some things. On other things, he's very mature. He has
some sensory integration with foods as far as texture, so there's certain things that
he won't accept to eat. We're working with him in food therapy through applied
behavioral services. That's one of his speech places or his therapy places. But
yeah, it's a lot of work. We probably do five or six therapy
sessions each week, and then of course working out at Fitworks when we can
get him up there to see Robert Well, the autism rocks things that's going
on here. When's the next event, guys, It's coming up this Sunday.
Yeah, where go ahead, Robert, go ahead? Day. Well,
it's coming up this Sunday, February. I just didn't want to step
on him too. It's coming up this Sunday, February the eighteenth, at
fret Board Brewing Company. We have the doors opening at eleven o'clock to the
general public. We're gonna start first band at noon that would be Deja Vu,
then at one o'clock Marsha Brady, then at two o'clock Gena and Johnny
Band, and then at three o'clock Denim Deluxe, and then at four o'clock
Dangerous Gym and the Slims, and then at five o'clock would be Sweet Sister
Mercy. Now plugged in to that, also, we have a special guest,
Brayden Raymer, who's notn in the Cincinnati music scene. He's going to
do a song or two with Marshall Brady and possibly even with Don Rolock.
So we've got a real full line up for everybody as far as the music
is cool. And I know that Elliott's loan A Blessed Union of Souls is
involved in this effort as well. Is that correct? Yes, we recently
did have a conversation with Ellie. You know, I've been doing this,
this will be fifteen years, and after doing it so long, something so
long, you kind of get stuck in the same tread the same path.
And I've been talking with Elliott for a while. He did an event for
us back in twenty seventeen, we called it Rock and for iPads, and
we've been chatting for a while and I said to him, would you be
willing to come on as an advisor. I'd like to come to Autism Rocks
fifteen, just observe what we do, meet the people that come to the
event, see everything that goes on, and then afterwards, let's sit down
and have a conversation about what you witnessed and where you think we might be
able to make some improvements and some changes in the years to come to make
it a little bit better. Like I said, if everybody just went by
my ideas, we'd be stuck doing the same thing. I want to make
sure that we evolved with this. I got you, Dave Kale Robert Jackson
Autism Rocks. It's coming up this coming Sunday at Fretboard Brewery. Again,
give the location of people don't know, Dave. It's at fifty eight hundred
Creek Road, Blue Ash, Ohio. And if they need any more information,
it's on our Facebook page. We have an event page called Parker's Autism
Rocks fifteen. We have our page which is Autism Rocks Cincinnati, and then
we've recently opened our own website. It's Autism Rocks Sincy with a Y dot
org. Robert Jackson an honor to speak to you and hopefully maybe maybe we
can have a chance to sit down and talk some football again some time.
But oh we get sat down or wed go play golf and top football,
you know, Okay, Well, I'll be I'll be happy to caddy for
you. You got to play. I gotta have somebody I can be.
Well, I'll bring my good friend Charles Barkley with me. I'm sure that
that'll be swinging dude. Dave Calee, thank you so much, Robert Jackson
Autism Rocks this Sunday, starting at noon. You said yes, we're going
to open the doors at eleven. Starting at noon, MCS will be uh
the Fatman, Ernie Brown, and Perry Back from the Cincinnati Reds. I
tell you what, Ernie is the best. Uh. I actually did a
profile on Ernie on this program not too long ago after he got inducted into
the Northern Kentucky Hall of Fame Music Legends Hall of Fame. And he is
the best and he all was is out there helping people wherever he can.
He's a really, really great guy. So you got some good people involved
with you, including yourself, and all the best to Parker and everybody else
who benefits. And what's the direct benefit charity that we're referencing here on this
Well, in the years past, we've done that. We've named one specific
charity, the Cincinnati Center for Autism, the Autism Speech People, more recently
the Ken Anderson Alliance. But what we've decided to start doing is spreading it
out to as many organizations as we can. So we're going to be seeking
out some different organizations. We've already spoke with a couple, and we're open
to people and organizations coming to us and asking us if they need some financial
help. So that's our plan is we want to spread it out as much
as we can. Well, guys, wish you wish the best of success
with that, and thank you for all of the fine work you're doing,
Robert with the fit. Thank you. Yeah, that's that's remarkable. Autism
rocks this Sunday. Dave Kale, Robert Jackson with us and this is the
nightcap. On seven hundred WLW Bounce to the crowd, game way too loud.
Here comes Taylor Cruise beges play by too Loud, Electric Electric Player.
Now to the crowd, game way too look way twenty twenty four centinnati wret
this clows this game wide. Oh the way too l all starts with spring
train sending the right fielder back to the log goal. On seven hundred w
l W oh Jonathan India again the home of the Reds. When you donate
your car, truck, motorcycle or RV to Saint Fans in deplay my favorite
radio disc jockey in the entire world. We did this before the first of
the year last year, before his induction into the National Radio Hall of Fame,
which is so richly deserves. And now he is a member in good
standing I've never heard it, and I've been listening to the radio since I
was six seven years old, going back to nineteen sixty seven sixty eight about
when he started. And I tell you what, I've heard them all.
I've heard all the greats and his themes, his segues, and his ability
to when you listen to this guy on the radio, it doesn't matter what
song he's going to play, because you're you're not listening, you're listening for
the songs, but you're listening to hear Pat Saint John and how he is
going to play those and present those songs. And he is on Serious XM
sixties Gold right now in the afternoon drive, and I hate to confess,
I occasionally will listen, like almost every time he's on. And I wanted
to bring him in as part of my rock and Roll archaeology series tonight for
this segment, and we're focusing on the music from the Detroit area. We're
in Cincinnati. Why Detroit, Well, Cincinnati has a rich musical history,
which we have discussed in the asked, but so does Detroit and it goes
way beyond Barry Gordy and Motown. And I heard Pat play this song the
other day. We'll start with this and I know he's got some little cuts
we're going to play along the way. But Pat, good evening, Welcome
to rock and roll archaeology. And what I do know? I don't know,
Gary Jeff, I don't know how I can live up to that kind
of talk. You just all those compliments. Thank you. I mean all
I can say is thank you. I mean that's wow, that's crazy.
No, well, you know how I feel. I mess up your email
all the time with my little compliments. But I heard you play this and
this tell me truth or not? Is this a Detroit artist? Let me
now? That is Nathaniel Mayor the Village of Law from nineteen and he is
from Detroit, right Pat, He is from Detroit, Yes, indeed,
and not Motown. A lot of people here, a lot of people here
Detroit, and that's all they think of. But there's so much broader scope
of incredible artist that had nothing to do with Hitsville, USA. Right.
Oh yeah, well that's true. I mean there and you know there are
a lot of stories about Motown. One of the things years ago today that
I narrated, and I know you want to talk about, you know,
other rock and roll no but no, please anything you got. And you
know there are artists that are not in Motown that probably should have been,
like Jackie Wilson. Yeah, I mean even Jackie Wilson's Lonely Tear Drops was
which was written by Barry Gordy. I mean, this was before Motown and
he never wound up being at Motown and then he's got connections later at Jackie
Wilson was from Detroit. But like on Higher and Higher and Whispers Getting Louder,
those are the Funk Brothers Motown. But they were moonlighting and they went
down to Chicago and cut these records for did these sessions for Jackie Wilson?
Well, Pat, And then yeah, I was gonna say Pat Saint John
started his radio career in Detroit, and that you're from the area, and
I was born in Detroit, born in Detroit, exactly, Sony, you
you were gonna say something else, and I'm sorry in rupted. Well,
the other thing. The other thing I was going to say was the building
Hitsville, USA, down on West Grand Boulevard in Detroit. When my mom
was younger, before she was married, she lived in the house next door,
which doesn't exist anymore. But she lived in that house that was next
door to West Grand Boulevard. This is back in the thirties and forties,
you know, before before Motown took it over. So that's like, you
know, that's an amazing thing, no doubt to realize. And I got
a few pictures of my mom standing in front of it. And you know
from back then, I mean Barry Gordy bought that bought that property and knocked
it down, but years ago. So anyway, so you were asking me
about the other you know, Detroit had an incredible roster of rock and roll
people. Well before I even get to that, Detroit radio the Detroit radio
dial was the best ever. And yeah, I hadn't been to any others.
But you know, even when I went to New York and I heard
that the New York dial, so this doesn't compare to Detroit. Plus,
Detroit had its own music. You know, as far as Motown. If
there were you know, four releases by an artist from Motown nationally, there'd
be like eight of them in Detroit, you know, hungry for more,
there were more stuff on the charts and then on the charts, and those
days you had artists like the Little Clip that you played, Nathaniel Mayer,
the Dynamics, all kinds of Detroit soul groups not on Motown, plus the
likes of Bob Seeger and you know the amboy Dukes in so many of them.
Yeah, that's right. The Motor City mad Man, Ted Nugent,
that's right. Yeah, I thought he was mad then. I think that's
a lifelong proposition for Teddy. I got a quick story for you about Ted
Nugent when I first got When I first got to Cincinnati, I was working
for the FM, the classic rock station, but I was also doing stuff
for the other rock station, WEBN that was in building with us, and
they sent me out to Riverbend, which is the open air amphitheater on the
River where all the acts play in the summertime. And Ted Nugent was opening
up that night. I forget who the headliner was, but Ted Nugent,
and they said, we got an interview for Ted Nugent backstage, Gary,
Jeff, you've got five minutes. And so I'm up there on the steps
leading up to the stage. Ted comes down and meets me for the interview,
and I said so briefly, Ted, and he took the mic out
of my hand and he talked for it, and they're telling me, my
ears, we got a break, we got a break. I'm going I
can't help, but I don't have the mic in my hand. Ted Nutent
just kept on going. It was great, easiest interview I ever did.
When he came to New York. I know, I just you know,
hey, man, like you say, he just thinks over and you don't
need to say a word. Well, my first experience with him was on
It was on Thanksgiving Eve Eve in nineteen sixty seven, November sixty seven,
I went to Southfield High School. Southfield is the city just north of Detroit.
Just this guy to eight mile and well, there you go. There's
an eminem eminem reference. Yeah, that's right on that particular night at my
high school. Because of the radio station they thought they were supporting, which
was a Ken Watt station where I started in Detroit. We had a concert
in the gymnasium and the first act was a local act called the Unrelated Segments,
only popular in Detroit. I mean that's what they call this show,
the Unrelated Segments. Well, the second act, so they were the first
act. The second act was the Mboy Dukes and then The main event was
the Who. You told me this the last time we talked. You got
the Who to play her high school. Yeah. Well that's because they they
thought they were playing for a radio Detroit radio station. You know that was
a lotiger than ten watts, which was only about a five mile radius.
Oh yeah, but they were happy to do it. They were doing stuff
trying to get you know, trying to get off the ground. They had
a couple of things. Well they had you know, they had my generation,
They had a lot of hits. We were all amazed. It was
three bucks and hosted by the jocks at c KLW, and it was just
it was just a blast. I've never forgotten. How could I Well,
you know what you talked to. You mentioned Bob Seger, and you can't
talk about Detroit without talking about Bob Seger and his influence, his influence on
all kinds of Obviously, he's influenced by all these great sounds around him,
and then he goes on to influence the sound of the Eagles because of his
friendship with Glenn Frye and and all the other things that Bob Seger did in
his little illustrious career. I just play a little. If this will play
technology, it's a great thing, isn't it, especially if we if we
learn how to use it. So anyway, I like the old school.
I like old school stuff. Oh man, I do too. I started.
I started earlier enough in the business that I was playing records when I
for two turntables in a microphone, like Beck says in nineteen eighty, when
I started in my first station. A little taste of the Bob Secret system
here. So, Pat, have you got any good Bob Seeger stories for
me? Well, I don't know. First of all, you mentioned Glenn
Fry. You know he's on that record. Yeah, yeah, I know,
but you can't pick him out. No, you know, Mike Bob
Seger story. The first first time I met him was at a junior high
school in Michigan. I think it was New Baltimore, Michigan, And yeah,
junior high and I got to introduce him there. I was eighteen,
and his dressing room was the girl's locker and he so you know that there
you go. I mean to me, that's that's even weirder than the who
because because this was a junior high you know. Yeah, but that was
a blast. And then several years later, I was invited to a party
at Punch his house. Punches his manager still is to this day, and
we were over his plus place and in the kitchen we saw Bob Seger there
there he was, and he said, I remember you. You had that,
you had that cool car, you had that Grand pre White. And
I couldn't believe he remembered that. So that was mind blowing. And then
over the years, I've interviewed him in New York and and in in Detroit.
In fact, when I was in New York, I was flown to
Detroit to do this interview with him. So there's been a lot of things
throughout the years. And I once as a record collector, when I had
him on in New York, I gave him a copy of the Night Moves
album that was made in Taiwan. Oh how about that? Yeah? And
he had never seen that before and so that was a lot of a foreign
bootleg. Now tell me, tell me if you know anything about the whole
story behind Rare Earth. How they were doing the Temptations get Ready around clubs
in Detroit and Barry Gordy got wind and their version actually charted higher than the
Temptations. I believe, and then Barry Gordy offer them a record label if
they just wouldn't cut any more motown stuff. What was a story there?
Do you know that? Well, that sounds about right to me. I
know, I can't tell you that for some reason, I don't know.
That sounds very familiar. But that's what I've always heard is Barry Gordy the
radios playing Rare Earth version of get Ready and ignoring the Temptations version. And
of course they had that long extended jam out version that they did. Did
you ever several years later that they Yeah? Right, But did you ever
meet those guys Rare Earth? No? No, never met any of the
guys from Rare Earth. Never did. But that's another one of those signature
Detroit bands. Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels. Tell me about that.
Yeah, well, just you know, rocking good stuff with Jenny taker Ride
that first record, and Mitch is another one that was just was just crazy.
I asked him about Socke to Me Baby. I can know if we
can get too much. Socke to Me Baby reportedly has a nasty word in
it, Okay, and that's the way I, you know, most of
us hear it. When I talked to him. I asked him about it.
He said, would I would I say a word like that? Would
I? You know, very sarcastic, right, Okay, that doesn't really
answer it, but it does. It does give me a clue that it
probably is. Plus the fact that he recut it to the exact to the
exact track. So and maybe they I think they probably even punched in the
vocal at a particular time. Every time you kiss me, hits me like
a puck, like a a hockey puck, like a hockey puck. Yeah,
and so anyway, there is a recut version. We played the original
here, what the heck? But anyway you can figure out the rest of
that. You said, you hit, you hit. You had a couple
of little musical things you were going to spring. Honest, do you have
any of those available right now? Just because now you know you played a
little bit of rambling gambling Man, which was his first national hit, but
a couple of years before that, I mean in Detroit, we were,
we were, We had Bob Seeger on the radio starting in sixty five six,
only sixty six and uh he did stuff on Hideout Records, which was
also the name of the club where he used to perform in those early days,
and then he was picked up by Capitol on a thing called East Side
Story. But just for your listeners, how much this guy was rocking from
six in sixty seven. This is one called Persecution Smith. Just a little
bit of it from mornin. But he's still took at the He reached it
in the corner where she deluted goods. He cheat the firing action and respected
two kids. La man would call a man man even though it all it
kid he did, he's found a bad uncredible Wow. You know he's not
a man. He's not. Yeah, there you go. Just I mean,
like I like a rock and roll preacher. Man. Come on,
here's another one. I know we're I know we're running out of times.
That's right. Here's one that's by a local Detroit group called the Rationals,
actually from ann Arbor, Michigan. And this was this was a big hit
in Detroit. It's the first version I ever heard of this song. And
the song is Respect Aretha Franklin's Respect, which was a cover of Otis Redding
song he wrote it, But this was the one I heard in Detroit,
And like I said, this was a big hit. Heard it way before
Aretha. It's the Rationals their version of this, and it almost sounds like
a different song because this is rock and roll. Check it out, Honey,
you got it? Is that something that's great? I've never heard that
before. That's super Listen. Pat, We're gonna have to wrap it up,
but thank you for taking time out of your busy day. Yeah,
I know, I know, I know. And by the way, happy
belated birthday. One more thing, go ahead, thank you. No,
I was going to say I had two other clips that are mind blowing.
Do we have enough time for that, Well, let's play one at least.
No, they're short. Okay, never mind, we'll do it next
time. Okay, that's great. I got you into it next time.
This is wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, it's been a pleasure so much.
Man, Thank you very much, and I'll be listening. You're welcome,
Gary, Jeff, good to talk to you again. Rock and Roll Archaeology
with Pat Saint John Radio Hall of Famer on the Nightcap on seven hundred WLW.
Meanwhile, and an Enchanted Castle, a beautiful woman named Beauty is being
kept by a beast. It's not that bad. We have plenty of fun
you mean the singing candles and teapots. Wake up, stupid, that's a
cartoon. Oh I'm sorry. We listen to Eddie and Rocky. They're funny.
You should see the beast's nostrils flare when he laughs. But aren't you
afraid? No? I like it here. I've got Eddie and Rocky and
this girl loves a guy with a hairy chest. Today and Rocky give your
day a fairy tale end a Eddie and Rocky Tomorrow afternoon at three on seven
hundred WLW Haret's Take your Daughter to a Game. Save Your Women's Basketball returns
to Senta Center to play the Yukon Huskies. For our next guest, Dave
Hatter. We're always ready for Hatter. Come on, man, the Mad
Hatter, the Voice of It and the Internet of Things world, and why
we should all be running for our lives as fast as we we can,
away from away from the technology. Not exactly. It's Valentine's Day and a
lot of people find love online, and some people find scams online, and
sometimes the Twain meet and that's been of news of note lately, of course,
with the Valentine's Day holiday tomorrow, if you're looking for love the Internet
may be in all the wrong places. Dave Hadter, good evening. Well,
Garry Jeffs, I'm always my pleasure to be here. I appreciate you
giving me an opportunity to warrant folks about this. You know, just the
tininess of the Valentine's Day stuff is really important because romance scams are on the
rise all year round, but you know they generally tend to pick up around
Valentine's Day. And here's a there's a quote from an FBI report. In
twenty twenty one, some twenty four thousand victims across the United States reported losing
approximately one billion dollars that's billion with a B to romance scams. It's likely
that many more losses went unreported. Now that was two years ago. How
is this? I mean, are people? Are people just so desperate to
find that special someone and they're sitting there alone in their in their bedroom or
at their desk at home, and they've got their pajamas on, and they're
just gone so lonely, and they're just scamming or scanning through the lines and
then they get scammed to the tune of one billion dollars total. Anytime I
don't know someone and they asked me for money, My first response, no
matter how desperate I am, is to give them money. Dave Well,
I think, Gary, Jeff, that's what part of what you said is
true. You know, people are lonely. The pandemic has exacerbated that problem.
But I think it's also a combination of more people are comfortable doing things
online. There's probably more dating apps than ever, people shop online. You
know, people use this stuff all the time, and I think the average
person does not realize a how easy it is to impersonate someone online and assume
an identity and it's not legit, and then be how easy it is for
these people to steal your money, because realistically this boils down to sort of
an evil brew of technology and social engineering. I can go online right now
and create a fake account. And you know, one of the best things
you can do to try to defend yourself against these sorts of attack is if
you strike up a conversation with someone immediately, if they have a photo,
they don't have a photo to me, that's a red flag. But if
they have a photo, do a reverse image search on it and see if
that photo shows up under other names if it does, huge red flag that
you're getting scammed. Now that's not the only red flag, and I'll get
to a few more of those than a second. But you know, it's
so easy now to set these fake accounts up. And I would remind folks
one of the reasons why you should care about your privacy, why you should
not have the attitude, well, all these apps are collecting all my data.
It's all out there, any why do I care. Here's why you
care. Every time your data gets stolen, every time your data's aggregated with
other data sets and more of it gets out there about you, it makes
it easy for the bad guys to impersonate you. So could I not only
take like direct in the fairy faction trying to set up, you know,
loans in your name or something. But if I'm on a dating site as
a scammer and I make a connection with you, can I go do what
in the business is known as open source intelligence and find information about you in
a data breach or even things like LinkedIn, Facebook, et cetera. And
now I know how to push all the right buttons to create rapport and chemistry
with you. It's just conveniently you know, happening that I like all the
same things you like. I like the same music, I like the same
you know, writers, et cetera, because all that information is out there.
You know, I know that you happen to like a certain type of
dog or whatever because you either talked about it on Facebook or because that information
has been leaked about you through one of these massive data breaches. My point
being, it's never been easier to use open source intelligence or stolen data to
figure out how to run a count on someone. So you set up a
dating app, you start talking to someone, you go get as much information
about you as you can, and you know, next thing, you know,
there's this magical chemistry. You found your soulmate online. And then you
know, again huge red flag is you find that person's photo associated with someone
else. But I'd also remind folks scary Jeff. Now, thanks to AI,
it's never been easier to create extremely realistic photos that aren't going to show
up for someone else. And you know, as soon as the conversation turns
the money, especially after they've never wanted to meet in person, you know,
they don't want to turn on their video camera, but they'd love to
come meet you if only you could pay for that plane ticket. You're getting
scammed, folks, You're getting scammed. And this isn't just my opinion.
Go find stories. The FBI actually has some great videos out there of people
who fallen prey to these scams and talk about it. And I think it's
really important to hear from the people who's happened to firsthand, because you can
see that the con art involved in this will tell you any lie to get
your money. They'll stoop to any level, they'll tell you any lie.
So yeah, be aware of folks, And you know these things always turn
up in increasing frequency around this time of year. Well, I mean,
if anybody like saw my profile pick now, I'm happily married, and I
mean happily married, Chris to two point zero. I know you're probably asleep
in bed, but I'm happily married. But I mean, if if I
turned my profile picture out into one of those online days, I can't imagine
anyone contacting me back. Uh, So, I guess that's the same I
feel the same way. It's a safeguard. Yeah. Usually most people would
just print my picture out and hang it up in like their garage or something
to scare off the vermin. You know, no, I keep the use.
I'd use one. I'd use one of those pictures that they sell with
the picture frame. Yeah yeah, me too. Again, that's where your
reversed image search comes in to make sure that you're not getting scanned, right.
Okay, So good advice for the love lorn. George Carlin one of
the most genius comedic minds that God ever put on earth, and you know,
he's been passed for a long time, but he was popping back up
sort of. And the folks in charge of the George Carlin estate noticed that
George was popping up. Well it was like out there and it was all
AI AI generated And they're suing the people who put out the George Carlin AI
comedy bit, and they should. But this is this is really really weird
territory now because the legal world has never dealt with AI fakes and family estates.
Just can you break down this story for me a little bit, Dave,
Yeah, you're right, I think this this is weird territory and it
touches on several of the problems with AI, whether it's you know, synthetic
media slash deep fakes, which are sort of the negative connotation of synthetic media,
which is the term for something that has been entirely generated by a computer,
like this George Carlin thing. Or it's the weird legal territory we're in,
which goes in a whole number of different directions, because could you be
framed for a crime using AI generated you know content, perhaps could you be
guilty of a crime and then potentially get off because AI generated content shows that
you weren't there, or you know, whatever the case may be. And
we've got all these you know, there's numerous copyright cases out there now,
which gets us back to the George Carlin case. But this just goes to
show you we are to place now where you really can't believe anything that you
see or hear, because AI has progressed to the point where you can generate
extremely realistic photos, extremely realistic videos, extremely realistic audio, and in this
particular case, some guys took you know, first off, I think George
Carlin was one of the greatest comedians of all time. I thought he was
extremely funny, and obviously he did this for a very very long time,
so there's a lot of content out there. I can remember watching you know,
specially George Carlin specials on HBO back in the day. So the people
behind this took all of this content, trained an AI model on it,
and then produced a quote special quote unquote called George Carlin Glad I'm dead.
It's all completely you know, synthetic media, completely entirely generated by AI trained
on George Carlin's original material. Now, if you've watched any of it,
I didn't find it that funny or that compelling. I mean, yeah,
it kind of sounds like him, Yeah, it looks like him. It's
not nearly as funny, I think, as George Carlin. But it does
go to show you sort of the state of the art of this stuff.
Now. It's it's pretty good. If you didn't know it was a deep
fake, or that this sort of deep fake type technology existed, you might
be. But I think it also shows again where we're heading into all these
weird territories of a there's no law that prevents something like this, you know,
so they're going down the copyright angle to try to shut this thing down,
and I understand their concerns. You know, this is potentially going to
take away from money that could be generated. You know, through his estate.
It's it's kind of crazy and just shows you where we're at with this
and that this is a total wild West in terms of where what this technology
is capable of and where we're headed. So it certainly bears watching. I'm
really curious to see where it goes in the courts. I had the am
FM album when I was a young teen, George Carlin, Big Radio,
Whino and Bing Bong five and five, the Hippie Dippy weather Man. I
just can't see a computer doing a better job. I just can't. Well,
yeah, the seven words you can't say on the CEA. I mean
a guy just had something. He guess what, Dave, Dave, guess
what. We can't say that here either. I fully understand that. Gary,
Jeff. As soon as soon as you went there there, they're rattling
off in my brain going no, don't say it, don't say it,
don't say it. No, George Carlon, brilliant and AI deep fakes again.
This legal challenge will be interesting to watch because if the courts rule in
the estate's favor, then that'll put the kibosh on a lot of this.
If I think it might absolutely or at least I don't know that it'll shut
it down, but it's certainly going to put a dent in any legal use
of it in this form, and if it rules in favor of the AI
generators, then we're all screwed. I mean, it's going to be really,
really interesting for sure to see where this particular story goes. Macy's is
being sued over facial wreck that led to jail. And you got to explain
this story because because if it was somebody who was shoplifting in Macy's and it
led to them being arrested, well good, that's that's a plus for everyone
who gets sick of seeing people's shoplift at nauseum and not be arrested or prosecuted
on the back end. But tell me about this story. Well, you
know, this is an interesting story. So this is from the Washington post
Man sus Macy saying false face facial recognition match led to jail. Assault case
adds to a growing number of wrongful facial recognition arrests and further highlights the dangers
of the technologies use in law enforcement. And you know, we Gary Jeff
have talked to many times about issues with facial recognition and the technology just really
isn't there. This appears to me from what I can tell from what's been
public reported. Another example of that, where you know you go into most
stores now there are cameras everywhere. In fact, you'll appreciate this because you
know me pretty well if you haven't been, if you've been in any Kroger
stores recently, you may notice, or at least the ones I've been in
have cameras everywhere, including monitors that show you on the monitor telling you you're
under surveillance. Oh yeah, yeah. In fact, I will be Uh.
I will be going there early in the morning to get my wife the
daisies that I forgot to pick up today and uh and yeah. I go
to the self checkout and it's like recording in progress, and there I see
that that ugly face and I go, oh yeah, and I usually smile
or make some weird face in it on purpose, but anyway, go ahead.
I did too, Garry Jeff. And in fact, what I normally
do if I can remember in advance, like if my wife wants me to
go to the store with her, I have a shirt that has like two
evil looking big brother eyes on it and it says or well was right,
humh And I like to wear that to Kroger and then as I walk by
their cameras, I just point out it each time mm hmm. Yeah,
send it, send a little message to big brother you know. There there
it is point being though, you know, I understand and I agree with
you. You know, shoplifting costs us all money, right, the prices
go up. It leads to inflation because if stores generally have a very small
margin to begin with, if you have rampant shoplifting, those prices are just
passed on to us. So I understand why stores, you know, want
to have all this videos for the surveillance. But this facial recognition technology,
it just shows time and time again it's not ready for prime time. And
in this particular case, you know, it was used to identify a guy
who got arrested and went to jail and then was assaulted in jail. You
know. Again, it's one thing to have someone on tape and then for
the police to do, you know, sort of standard old school police work
to identify someone and go arrest them. It's another thing altogether to assume this
technology is actually capable of identifying people with a high degree of certainty. Which
it shows time and time again that it's not, and it's got issues with
bias and all kinds of other problems. But yeah, ultimately this is just
another prime example of why I don't believe it's ready for prime time and we
should not be relying on it in the legal system because it's frequently wrong and
people are being falsely arrested. I don't know. Yeah, it's not good.
Just a real quick aside, and you can comment on it if you
want. Nothing. You sent me that we talked about discussing. But did
you see the article in the paper over the weekend that the new state of
the art seven hundred thousand dollars smart toilet that they installed in downtown Columbus doesn't
work in the cold? No, I did not see that. I'll have
to look that up because I remember you and I talking about the smart toilet
last week, well last week, and it's so insane that you know why
in the world you need a smart toilet, and you know what what could
go wrong from that? Well? Everything. Yeah, there's there's no chance
I'm going to be buying or using a smart toilet. That's just ridiculous.
It was in the Inquirer this past Saturday, the headline downtown Columbus seven hundred
thousand dollars toilets don't work in the cold, So wait till the weather.
Wait till the weather gets warmer. If you're traveling to Columbus because you want
to use the new state of the art seven hundred thousand dollars toilets, I
would wait till it gets above freezing on a consistent basis, Dave. For
that, it's just so ridiculous. It's seven hundred thousand dollars toilet. You
could put in a lot of toilets for seven hundred thousand dollars. Oh,
there's no question. None of them are gonna, you know, ruin your
privacy. None of them are going to post pictures of you on the Internet,
none of them are going to become part of a botnet attack, or
you know, I could go on and on. It's just ludicrous. Well,
let's waste of tax player dollars. With one minute left, Dave Hatter,
let's talk about QR codes and how you should be very careful where and
when you scan a QR code. Yeah, Gary, Jeff story keeps on
up to the news of people being scammed out of substantial amounts of money thanks
to QR codes. I would just remind folks, since we don't have a
lot of time, you know, it's easy as for a criminal to walk
up to something like a parking meter or any place where you may have used
a QR code in the past, cover the existing QR code with a QR
code of their design. There's no way you can look at it by the
naked eye and know it's malicious, and once you scan it, it could
a download malware of your device be take you to a site where they steal
your credentials, which are then used to steal your money. There's a well
known case here recently where a woman in England had thirteen thousand pounds stolen in
a scam like this, So yeah, I would Again, I hate to
be the Kinsloht guy, but I can tell you I'm not scanning any QR
codes in public. I'm just not going to do it because there's too much
risk and these attacks keep rising because the bad guys know it's an easy way
for them to scam people, and average people do not realize that any QR
code you see could be malicious. So yeah, just don't scan Dave Patter,
thank you, Happy Vale on time. Say hey, Happy Fat Tuesday.
Hey always my pleasure, Gary Jeff. Happy Fat Tuesday to EU and
all your listeners, and I'll look forward to chatting with you against Sie.
All right, hope you find a baby in your kincake. It's a nightcap.
We continue. Cold weather has arrived in Cincinnati. Vonder Haarf Fireplace wants
you to be safe this winter and recommends having your