WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.720 --> 00:00:06.360 We've had him on many times. We're talking about doctor av Lobe, who 2 00:00:06.440 --> 00:00:12.480 has been in the news and I mean everywhere, talking about his discovery of 3 00:00:12.480 --> 00:00:19.960 an extraterrestrial craft he believes crashed into the Pacific Ocean in twenty fourteen. Lobe, 4 00:00:20.039 --> 00:00:27.920 who heads the Galileo Project, is now enhancing his research to include UAPs 5 00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:36.320 unidentified aerial phenomenon. His program is looking at these craft in a transparent fashion, 6 00:00:36.880 --> 00:00:41.759 releasing the data to the general public. We're also going to learn today 7 00:00:41.799 --> 00:00:46.960 about a new book he is releasing called Interstellar, on how we need to 8 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:56.399 prepare for extraterrestrial civilizations to meet with us and our place in the Solar System. 9 00:00:56.479 --> 00:01:36.239 All this and Bruce Fenton today on Earth Ancients or Saturday, September ninth, 10 00:01:36.560 --> 00:01:42.959 twenty twenty three. This is Earth Ancients. I'm your host, Cliff 11 00:01:44.200 --> 00:01:51.239 Dunning. Hey, what are you doing? What's going on? I'm glad 12 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:53.560 you're with us today. Can you believe it? Summer is almost over? 13 00:01:53.640 --> 00:02:00.640 It's the ninth, the ninth of September. What the heck? You blink 14 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:02.640 your eye and there's a month that's gone. It seems like it's been going 15 00:02:04.319 --> 00:02:07.560 pretty quick this year. But you know, what that's the way it is, 16 00:02:07.560 --> 00:02:13.879 isn't it. So I was reading in the Daily Mail just a few 17 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:20.599 days ago articles on our friend doctor Avy Lobe. It turns out that he 18 00:02:20.800 --> 00:02:29.319 did find some significant fragments of this asteroid. He calls it I am one. 19 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:38.560 It's the original inner stellar meteorite. It actually hit the ocean Pacific Ocean 20 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:46.639 close to New Guinea in twenty fourteen, and he and his team had tracked 21 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:52.319 this and verified it through Space Command that has a huge array of telescopes around 22 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:59.599 the world that track meteorites or what they call near Earth orbiting objects, which 23 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:02.919 is kind of interesting in itself because you've got to wonder what's orbiting our planet, 24 00:03:04.319 --> 00:03:08.319 and it was able to track this meteor that hit in twenty fourteen and 25 00:03:08.479 --> 00:03:15.120 disintegrated in our atmosphere. Now, this is interesting for a lot of different 26 00:03:15.120 --> 00:03:24.159 reasons because doctor Loew believes that the fragments are from another interstellar deep space area. 27 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:30.680 And we're gonna hear later today in this interview with him exactly what he 28 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:37.960 found and exactly what the significance of it is. But I wanted to talk 29 00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:44.680 with our science editor Bruce Fenton on just what his take was because does this 30 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.639 mean this is a first contact? How do we look at this? So, 31 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.840 Hey, Bruce, how you been man, Good to see you. 32 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.159 Yeah, I'm doing pretty well. Yeah, I've just been enjoying our very 33 00:03:55.319 --> 00:04:00.080 very wet and mild summer in the UK. But now I've been following this 34 00:04:00.120 --> 00:04:02.960 story and it's very interesting. So yeah, I decided to catch up with 35 00:04:03.000 --> 00:04:09.000 you and have a chat. Yeah, so what's your feeling on these fragments? 36 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:16.040 Are they? Are these? I mean they're too small to be determined 37 00:04:16.360 --> 00:04:23.959 to be part of a ship body part some technology because they actually burnt up 38 00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:30.040 in the atmosphere and were deposited in the ocean. But what what could we 39 00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:34.639 detect? What would we surmise from this data? Yeah? Absolutely, I 40 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:36.800 mean, of course, I think all of us that were following this story, 41 00:04:36.839 --> 00:04:43.920 you know, we're very hope that they might recover some large fragments, 42 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:47.120 you know, which obviously was always going to be like you know, hard 43 00:04:47.279 --> 00:04:50.639 and probably unlikely. But you know what we'd love to see is you know, 44 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:54.759 a large chunk of material. Now at this point, what they have, 45 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.639 as you point out, as these small spherals, So these are small 46 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:05.480 pieces of melt. So these liquefied object has cascaded out these droplets, you 47 00:05:05.480 --> 00:05:10.480 know, and obviously those of slidified as they've hit the ocean and have rained 48 00:05:10.480 --> 00:05:14.639 down to the bottom, where they've fortunately stayed much in place as to where 49 00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:16.480 it was calculated they would be, and that's to do the ocean depth there 50 00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:20.079 there's not tick strong currents moving them around, so they've got quite lucky. 51 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:23.680 And it was a large search area as well as word point out that this 52 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:28.560 again it's very fortunate they've managed to find these because it was over several kilometers 53 00:05:28.600 --> 00:05:31.560 that they were trawling the seabed in the hopes of finding these tiny fragments, 54 00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:36.560 and they've ended up with some six hundred and twenty two of them that were 55 00:05:36.759 --> 00:05:40.839 sent back to Harvard's labs. So, you know, so they've done really 56 00:05:40.879 --> 00:05:42.959 really well on the first point. The second point is that, yeah, 57 00:05:43.000 --> 00:05:46.199 they don't have large pieces. There is talk of a return to this site 58 00:05:46.319 --> 00:05:50.160 and you know, hoping to find larger chunks, but as it is, 59 00:05:50.199 --> 00:05:54.199 you know, of course, they are working with what they have and the 60 00:05:54.199 --> 00:06:00.560 the initial analysis has been quite sort of revealing. So what they have found 61 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:05.519 is that the composition, so the proportions of the different metals and indeed, 62 00:06:05.560 --> 00:06:12.759 the types of different metals in there make this quite unusual. There's in particular 63 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:18.079 a much higher concentration of elements like beryllium, lanthanum, and uranium than is 64 00:06:18.560 --> 00:06:24.639 seen in other you know, natural asteroids and comets and stuff that we see 65 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:29.600 in our Solar system. And so indeed the way that these these furrows are 66 00:06:29.639 --> 00:06:33.120 composed makes them unique in our Solar system. So we don't find this with 67 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:38.720 debris from the mark you know, from Mars, the Moon, any of 68 00:06:38.759 --> 00:06:43.240 the kind of the iron meteorites or the other kind of silica type asteroids. 69 00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:45.720 So these are unique. And that's they've got some point where can say, 70 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:51.399 okay, these really do have the characteristics of having come from outside of the 71 00:06:51.439 --> 00:06:56.079 Solar System, making this you know, of course, absolutely fascinating. You've 72 00:06:56.079 --> 00:07:00.079 got interstellar origin kind of confirmed already. But the next step has to be 73 00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:08.839 at that closer look to see whether or not we can see potential for artificiality 74 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:15.240 and in that, you know, construction of something like probe craft or just 75 00:07:15.279 --> 00:07:19.519 a piece of alien junk that has drifted through space for maybe millions of years. 76 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:21.959 So that's the next stage they have to go to is to try and 77 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:28.160 go deeper analysis. Yeah, nobody's doing this kind of work unless some Russian 78 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:31.120 scientists. And of course, our relationship with Russia right now is in the 79 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:36.199 toilet and we're not really communicating. But what do you think of this this 80 00:07:36.399 --> 00:07:41.199 research? I think it's exciting, Yeah, I do. I think it's 81 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:45.800 exciting because you know, there's the potential here to make some amazing discoveries. 82 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:49.560 Because we know that there's interstellar objects that have been passing through the Solar System 83 00:07:49.639 --> 00:07:54.560 unobserved, you know, every year. I mean one of the calculations is 84 00:07:54.600 --> 00:08:00.800 that something like seven interstellar objects per year have probably been passing the Earth. 85 00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:03.720 Now, if you take that back since the Earth began us, you know, 86 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:07.199 four point five billion years time seven, you know that that's a lot 87 00:08:07.240 --> 00:08:11.199 of interstellar objects that we have not observed. Now, some of those would 88 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.920 have come into the atmosphere, maybe burned up, others may have impacted. 89 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:20.160 Now, what if amongst these interstellar objects are many alien probes, you know, 90 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:24.959 derelict craft, pieces of satellites that got you know, knocked out of 91 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.319 orbit from some other you know world. Amongst all these billions of objects, 92 00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:35.360 I think the statistical likelihood is there that we have got alien technologies that have 93 00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:37.759 hit say the Moon, Mars, Earth, you know, because they're not 94 00:08:37.799 --> 00:08:39.960 being limited to Earth. But you know, we're going to find I think, 95 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.879 pieces of technology that have impacted the surfaces of many of the planets and 96 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.759 asteroids in our solar system. So that's that's a kind of an amazing scenario, 97 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:52.000 and it's no longer a wild science fiction scenario because, like I say, 98 00:08:52.000 --> 00:08:54.240 you just need to do the maths. You know, seven times four 99 00:08:54.240 --> 00:09:01.039 point five billion mysterious interstellar objects that passed through here. So there's no reason 100 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:03.840 now to think that this isn't worth taking seriously. And so if we start 101 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:09.840 to look for where these objects have come down, and obviously some of this 102 00:09:09.879 --> 00:09:13.200 we can do by looking into the old databases. And that's what you know, 103 00:09:13.200 --> 00:09:16.720 Avy Lone's team did. They looked into a database of objects that had 104 00:09:16.759 --> 00:09:20.960 been monitored coming into the atmosphere and they were able to look and see what 105 00:09:22.039 --> 00:09:24.440 kind of speeds were involved. And so in this one in particular that they've 106 00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.080 analyzed it, when it broke through into the atmosphere, it was traveling at 107 00:09:28.120 --> 00:09:33.480 forty five kilometers per second, and obviously that's crazily fast, and so that's 108 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:37.399 so fast. That's faster than any of the known objects in our solar system. 109 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:41.679 Right, So that's how they got the first clue that this is something 110 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:45.080 different. This is something that's must be coming from outside of the solar systems. 111 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.000 It's not bound to the Sun, it's not traveling at the speeds that 112 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:50.679 we would expect. Right. So if we look through those same kind of 113 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:56.519 databases, you know, historically, there's a good chance that his team are 114 00:09:56.519 --> 00:09:58.080 going to start to see you know, oh, look, you know, 115 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:01.000 we've got this object, other object that came in you know, five years 116 00:10:01.039 --> 00:10:03.879 ago, ten years ago, and that was going too fast as well, 117 00:10:03.919 --> 00:10:07.159 and like where did that come down? Oh? You know, does come 118 00:10:07.159 --> 00:10:09.240 down in the desert over here? You know, So we could start to 119 00:10:09.279 --> 00:10:16.200 see this expand and become kind of like a global interested object recovery program, 120 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.559 right, yeah, imagine that. I mean, we may be starting to 121 00:10:20.559 --> 00:10:22.039 have more of that view of you know, jeep sand into the desert looking 122 00:10:22.080 --> 00:10:26.279 for some possible legging and probe you know, crash showing the desert and this 123 00:10:26.480 --> 00:10:30.440 kind of what we'd have fought in the past, of kind of a Hollywood 124 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.759 sounding that may start become the reality of this topic and If we do that, 125 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:37.720 I think there's a good chance that we're going to start turning up more 126 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.240 than spherals, you know, that we may actually find something that's impacted on 127 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.440 land, you know, and buried in the sand or something like that. 128 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:48.919 Right. Yeah, Now we both know about the American Space Command as well 129 00:10:48.919 --> 00:10:54.320 as NASA GPL and of course the Department of Defense. How do they react 130 00:10:54.720 --> 00:10:58.639 to lobe? And he doesn't really talk about that in the article. He's 131 00:10:58.720 --> 00:11:07.720 almost in many ways not even attempting to describe their reaction. He's looking at 132 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:11.480 it like pure science and he will disclose what he finds, which I love 133 00:11:11.879 --> 00:11:16.240 being as transparent as possible. But how do you think the government is going 134 00:11:16.279 --> 00:11:22.000 to reacts? And also you're in the UK, they follow us a similar 135 00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:28.200 protocol of like keeping things tightly quiet in top secret. Yeah, I wonder 136 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.720 if there's some nervousness around the idea that, you know, that he finds 137 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:37.159 something and it goes public very quickly, you know, without the ability for 138 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.360 you know, the powers that be kind of to step in and control the 139 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:48.399 narrative. So that could be you know, considered as a potential distabilizing event, 140 00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.960 right, you know, So if you want to control the narrative around 141 00:11:52.320 --> 00:11:58.720 interstellar objects or being in particular artificial interstellar objects, so you know, probes, 142 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:01.919 craft debris. You know, if the US government and the region kind 143 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:03.440 of have that view that, you know, we want control on this, 144 00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:09.360 and the intelligence structure, the military structure want that control, then you know, 145 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:13.159 an organization like the Gallera project may for them be you know, a 146 00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:18.480 concern. So I wouldn't be surprised if there is some level of monitoring, 147 00:12:18.519 --> 00:12:22.480 you know, like intelligence covert monitoring of the Gallet Prosure we know that even 148 00:12:22.519 --> 00:12:26.639 if we look historically, even some of the UFO contacts in the past were 149 00:12:26.679 --> 00:12:30.639 monitored by like the FBI and the CIA, you know, so there's a 150 00:12:30.720 --> 00:12:33.480 history to this topic. Really wild stuff of looking into you start to realize 151 00:12:33.519 --> 00:12:37.679 that people that were supposed he considered to be just lunatics were actually being very 152 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:45.480 closely monitored by the intelligence services. So would they not take more seriously A 153 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.840 scientist like Loeb, who's putting out detectors has already found pieces of an interstell 154 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:54.360 object. Surely he's more interesting than a UFO contact that has no funding and 155 00:12:54.440 --> 00:12:58.039 you know, no way to really do science, right, So I'd be 156 00:12:58.080 --> 00:13:01.559 super surprised if there isn't kind of level of covert monitoring and to see, 157 00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.039 you know, get ahead of whatever he's doing, so that perhaps if he 158 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.279 gets to a point of finding something really interesting, maybe they would step in. 159 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.279 You know, I'd hope not. I'm sure that everyone would hope not. 160 00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.440 But you know, we have to be a bit mindful that there is 161 00:13:16.440 --> 00:13:20.320 a history to these topics and that you know, it does seem that there's 162 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:26.320 at least factions in the military industrial complex they don't want a serious conversation around 163 00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:31.600 non human intelligence aliens, you know, and then we're back to swear one 164 00:13:31.679 --> 00:13:37.600 where it's being repressed, it's being you know, I don't think and maybe 165 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:39.600 you know more about it. I don't think the Galileo project is being funded 166 00:13:39.600 --> 00:13:45.679 by the government in any capacity knowledge and so it's privately funded, which means 167 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.679 that he can do as he wishes, right, Yeah, so he's he 168 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:54.320 has stuck with the founding kind of statement that they would not enter into any 169 00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:58.399 sign of secretive agreements with any you know, state apparatus, so they wouldn't 170 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:03.840 be looking at any classified materials or you know, using classified systems. Because 171 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.159 as soon as you do that course then you end up you're kind of under 172 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:11.000 the sway of the intelligence system. So I mean, I like that they've 173 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.600 done that. I like that they've agreed that they won't use classified sources and 174 00:14:13.639 --> 00:14:16.600 stuff, because otherwise, yeah, you can see how very quickly they could 175 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:20.399 be coopted. You know, we've seen happening in the kind of the UFO 176 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:22.720 community. Is a lot of people have these sources, you know, which 177 00:14:22.720 --> 00:14:28.399 are intelligence people and either get fed disinformation or eventually get coopted where you know, 178 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.360 they can't speak because it's classified. So I would definitely hope that he 179 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:37.519 continues to stick with the being very transparent. But there is an issue that 180 00:14:37.559 --> 00:14:41.720 when that's the funding, because of course no one has money like the military 181 00:14:41.799 --> 00:14:45.879 has money, you know. Yeah, yeah, so in the private world, 182 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.720 you know, the Gallo project, they have to kind of go out 183 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.000 and look for this funding. And if people look at the article and see 184 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:56.919 it cost one and a half million dollars just to do this search to find 185 00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:01.000 these ferrules, right, I mean, that's quite a bit a cash beus. 186 00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.840 There's nothing compared to government spending, you know, I think of an 187 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:09.039 air carrier or but I mean in terms of you know, private individuals scientists 188 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:15.440 doing this, of course is prohibitively expensive without having wealthy backers. And also 189 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.000 it does point out that you know, for the next stage of analysis, 190 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.519 and that's to take these spherules and not look at just the composition and say 191 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:28.840 the isotopic ratios, but to go deeper and to use technologies that can look 192 00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:33.440 at the really the almost to the atomic structure, right because there are technologies 193 00:15:33.440 --> 00:15:35.679 you can do that. But as he points out, this is going to 194 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:39.799 be multiple times as much money to do this, and these are these are 195 00:15:39.879 --> 00:15:45.399 very expensive analysis kinds of measures, so it may well he doesn't give an 196 00:15:45.399 --> 00:15:48.960 exact figure, but I'm assuming we're looking at perhaps you know, five to 197 00:15:50.039 --> 00:15:56.039 ten million dollars or something to do the deep analysis on these these artifacts to 198 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.320 see whether or not there's still traces of them being being perhaps manufactured, should 199 00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:03.559 at the atomic level, and that these being you know, artificial alloys, 200 00:16:03.639 --> 00:16:06.559 so that can be done even though they be melted, and that they are 201 00:16:06.600 --> 00:16:10.919 not obvious. You know, obviously from technology you can do deeper analysis. 202 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:14.360 And I know that doctor Gary Nolan has talked a bit about this with you 203 00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:18.840 know, he does some analysis on UFO franks that people aren't aware of Gary 204 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:22.320 Nolan. They're looking up. He kind of works with doctor Jack Vallet, 205 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:26.120 you know, he's kind of famous in the UFO world, and that they 206 00:16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.559 have been analyzing some debris that's alleged to be from UFOs. But he's talked 207 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:34.080 about about this that the cost of these technologies is immense and that's why they 208 00:16:34.279 --> 00:16:38.240 you know, the Galleta project is going to need a lot more money coming 209 00:16:38.279 --> 00:16:42.879 in to take this to the next level, and without government government help or 210 00:16:42.919 --> 00:16:47.720 the military, you know, it's going to need like a community kind of 211 00:16:47.759 --> 00:16:52.639 response where either individuals or wealthy you know, people in the tech world or 212 00:16:52.679 --> 00:16:55.559 business people, some somebody is going to have to come forward and say, 213 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:59.480 you know, here's ten million dollars. How they you know, go and 214 00:16:59.519 --> 00:17:03.480 get this fully analyzed to the point where we know for sure if it's natural 215 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.000 or artificial. And that's quite a gamble because if it comes up, well, 216 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:10.359 even it comes up natural obs it's fascinating. But of course, what 217 00:17:10.400 --> 00:17:11.559 you're really hoping at that point, and you're putting that much money in, 218 00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:15.359 is you're hoping it's going to spin on the wheel and come up as artificial, 219 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:18.640 right, because it's a lot of money. Yeah, totally. So 220 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.799 we don't know. Yeah, will people put the money? And that's the 221 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:25.359 big question is are we going to see someone step forward and say go for 222 00:17:25.480 --> 00:17:30.640 it, let's do the atomic analysis exactly. Bruce is always good at chatting 223 00:17:30.680 --> 00:17:34.519 with you, and I appreciate your insight. We'll talk to you again. 224 00:17:36.440 --> 00:17:38.880 Awesome, Yeah, great, great chance, yea, thanks much. So 225 00:17:38.960 --> 00:18:27.799 our program today is interstellar and my guest is a vy Lobe, So Aby 226 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:32.400 Lopes in the house. And I gotta tell you, you would think that 227 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:37.839 a astrophysicist would be at the chalkboard working on figures and calculations, But I 228 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:44.119 gotta tell you I recently and I'm a fan of current events and what's going 229 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.079 on, and I am a big fan of UK Daily Mail, And would 230 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:53.160 you believe it? I was perusing through and I found an article it's called 231 00:18:53.200 --> 00:19:00.839 exclusive Truth about my Alien Encounter. How I found bombshell interstellar objects a mile 232 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:08.720 beneath the sea and their limitless potential for life on Earth by scientists Avy Lope. 233 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:15.119 Now you would think this would be a reporter who's talking to Avy, 234 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:19.759 but guess what. Avy wrote the article and he actually posted it himself, 235 00:19:21.119 --> 00:19:26.519 a very very important article because if you remember the last time we left off 236 00:19:26.519 --> 00:19:33.519 with Avy, we were listening and understanding that he was pursuing these fragments from 237 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:40.960 a earlier asteroid that had plunged into the Pacific Ocean. And I'm happy to 238 00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:45.680 say that he has actually found these objects. And Avy, Welcome to Earth 239 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:48.440 Ancients. Great to have you, and you look fantastic. How are you? 240 00:19:49.480 --> 00:19:52.200 Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure to join you. You 241 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.039 can talk some more about the details. Yeah, that's what I want to 242 00:19:56.039 --> 00:20:02.359 do first is get the detail after this. Obviously you got the funding, 243 00:20:02.960 --> 00:20:07.720 and you got a team together, you went to the Pacific Ocean. You 244 00:20:07.799 --> 00:20:12.599 actually developed a device, a magnetic troll or something that was able to pick 245 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:17.759 up these fragments. Talk a little bit about that, would you. Yeah. 246 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:23.119 Well, obviously there were many possible failure points in this expedition, and 247 00:20:23.160 --> 00:20:29.240 I still look at it as a miracle that all of them worked out amazingly. 248 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:34.880 Well. So it all started from January eight, twenty fourteen, almost 249 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:42.880 a decade ago, when the US government satellites detected a fireball from an object 250 00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:48.279 that collided with Earth over the Pacific Ocean, roughly half a meter in size, 251 00:20:48.799 --> 00:20:52.759 and such objects do collide with Earth every few months. There is nothing 252 00:20:53.079 --> 00:20:59.039 unusual about the existence of a meteor, except that this one was moving very 253 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:04.799 fast. And five years later we realized with my student that in fact, 254 00:21:06.240 --> 00:21:10.640 this object was moving so fast that it must be unbound to the Sun, 255 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:14.519 that it came from outside the Solar System, and in fact, three years 256 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:18.839 later the US Space Command confirmed that at the ninety nine point nine and nine 257 00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:25.839 percent confidence, and we calculated that even outside the Solar System, the object 258 00:21:25.960 --> 00:21:30.119 that collided with Earth was moving faster than ninety five percent of the stars in 259 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:34.839 the vicinity of the Sun relative to the local standard of press the frame of 260 00:21:34.839 --> 00:21:41.079 the Milky Way galaxy, so it was a fast mover. And moreover, 261 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.440 based on the government data on the lightcurve from the fireboard, we concluded that 262 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:51.680 it was tougher than all the space rocks in the NASA catalog of meteors two 263 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:56.240 hundred and seventy two of them over the past decade. And that raised the 264 00:21:56.279 --> 00:22:03.359 possibility that maybe it's technological in origin, because if you imagine Voyager that we 265 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:07.839 launched out of the Solar System, it might collide with an earthlike planet in 266 00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:12.839 the future and would appear as a meteor in the sky of that planet of 267 00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:18.640 unusual strength material strength because it's made of stainless steel, but also of unusual 268 00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:25.000 speed because it was propelled by a chemical rocket. And so to find out 269 00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:30.960 what this object that was first to be discovered from interstellar space is made off, 270 00:22:32.200 --> 00:22:36.400 we decided to go to the explosion side of this meteor, which was 271 00:22:37.400 --> 00:22:42.599 identified by the US government within a seven mile region. We narrowed down the 272 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:48.480 path of the meteor using data from a seismometer on Manus Island, Papua New 273 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:56.599 Guinea, and then we built a sled with magnets on both sides so that 274 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:03.039 we can skim the ocean floor and look for magnetic particles leftover from that object, 275 00:23:03.119 --> 00:23:08.200 molten droplets that came out of it from its surface when it was exposed 276 00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:15.279 to the immense heat from the fireball that it generated in air. And that 277 00:23:15.440 --> 00:23:21.440 sounds like a very difficult task to find those droplets that are millimeter in size, 278 00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:26.400 roughly the size of a grain of sand, across the region of seven 279 00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:33.279 miles in length, and because the ocean depth was about a mile over there. 280 00:23:33.400 --> 00:23:38.079 And but first the first challenge was actually to get the funding and as 281 00:23:38.079 --> 00:23:42.960 you mentioned, I was able to get that funding within a few months after 282 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:51.359 announcing the expedition. It was one and a half million dollars contributed by Chas 283 00:23:51.400 --> 00:23:57.839 Hoskinson, who also arranged for us to go there with his private jet. 284 00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:04.960 And moreover, we found a ship that was fittingly called the Silver Star that 285 00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:11.920 was very suitable for the mission. We went there between June twenty between June 286 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:18.680 fourteen and twenty eight this year, twenty twenty three, and in those two 287 00:24:18.720 --> 00:24:27.839 weeks we had the twenty six runs seven miles in length each at criss crossing 288 00:24:27.880 --> 00:24:36.839 the region around the meteor path, and also having some runs that were outside 289 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:41.319 that region, just for control and background figuring out what is the background of 290 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:48.079 whatever we find. And so in the first six days we didn't find anything 291 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:56.119 any morten droplet from that object. We just found mostly volcanic ash black powder. 292 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:03.880 And then we started filtering it out using a mesh and the bigger particles 293 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:11.440 roughly ten of a millimeter or bigger, were put under a microscope and lo 294 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.920 and behold we found the first spheral at the first molten droplet, and that, 295 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:21.079 of course I was delighted. I hugged the person on the ship that 296 00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:26.440 found it, and then just like finding an ant in the kitchen, you 297 00:25:26.480 --> 00:25:29.640 know, I usually get alarmed because I know there must be many more out 298 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:34.400 there. And we found the fifty of them on the ship and then brought 299 00:25:34.720 --> 00:25:41.359 all the materials that we collected back to Harvard University to examine it with some 300 00:25:41.400 --> 00:25:47.799 of the best instruments in the world. And first of all, we made 301 00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:52.039 a map of where the spheral yield was the highest, and turns out that 302 00:25:52.160 --> 00:25:59.279 along the meteor path we got an enhancement in the number of spherals perir amount 303 00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:04.759 of mass of background material that we retrieved, and so that indicated that we 304 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:11.759 are in the right spot. And moreover, those there was an excess of 305 00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:17.319 spirrols of a type that we've never seen before anywhere in the control regions, 306 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:25.279 or not seen you know, in the scientific literature. These were spirrols that 307 00:26:25.319 --> 00:26:32.200 were made that had concentrations of some elements hundreds of times bigger than solar system 308 00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:37.480 materials. And these elements were beryllium, lantern um, uranium, and other 309 00:26:37.599 --> 00:26:42.640 heavy elements between lantern room and uranium. We gave it the name below for 310 00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:49.079 beryllium, lanternum, uranium, and never seen before in the Solar System, 311 00:26:49.119 --> 00:26:55.119 not on Earth, not on the Moon, on Mars, or asteroids, 312 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:02.359 and so we concluded that it's likely to be from outside the Solar System. 313 00:27:02.759 --> 00:27:07.920 Now there are two possible sources. You can think of. A natural source, 314 00:27:07.039 --> 00:27:11.680 and we mentioned it in the paper. It could be a planet that 315 00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:18.599 had a molten lava on top, basically molten rock. It's called magma ocean. 316 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.200 And if there is an iron core, some elements are attracted to the 317 00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:30.319 iron and they settle to the center of the planet, and then those that 318 00:27:30.359 --> 00:27:34.799 are left behind could be the ones that we find as over abundant. So 319 00:27:36.039 --> 00:27:41.440 it would be just a rock that was kicked out of a molten lava planet. 320 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:45.680 And the challenge there is that you need to make a lot of these 321 00:27:45.799 --> 00:27:52.400 rocks tend to the part twenty three or together almost an earth mass worth of 322 00:27:52.440 --> 00:27:57.359 material pair star in the Milky Way galaxy, which is a very big number 323 00:27:59.359 --> 00:28:03.880 because you need to break a whole Earth into pieces that are roughly five hundred 324 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:10.359 kilos in mass. That was the mass of estimated mass of this meteor. 325 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:15.680 So that's one possible scenario that we mentioned in the paper. A natural origin 326 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:21.440 from a magma ocean planet. And another is of course technological, if there 327 00:28:21.559 --> 00:28:27.400 is a reason for putting these elements together that serves some technological purpose. And 328 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:32.400 the one thing I'm thinking about is, you know, we we sort of 329 00:28:32.440 --> 00:28:37.279 have a recipe for a cake. We can take those elements that we found 330 00:28:37.960 --> 00:28:41.640 enhanced in these ferrals and put them together, just like you make a cake. 331 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.880 You mix them and see what you get. And perhaps we will get 332 00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:52.079 material of some unusual properties. Maybe even material strength would be extremely high. 333 00:28:52.160 --> 00:28:59.200 We should see now in that paper you are able to analyze it to a 334 00:28:59.240 --> 00:29:04.880 certain degree, but there's further analysis that actually is very expensive. What is 335 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:11.759 that analysis and does that determine if it's an actual craft or a natural asteroid? 336 00:29:14.000 --> 00:29:18.920 Yeah, so that would be the subject of our next expedition. We 337 00:29:18.920 --> 00:29:22.039 will try to find bigger pieces of the object because it's easy to tell if 338 00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.799 you get a big piece whether it's a rock or a piece of a technological 339 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:32.079 gudget, and that will be the focus of our next expedition. We will 340 00:29:32.079 --> 00:29:37.440 need to use a completely different machinery because it's impossible with the small magnets that 341 00:29:37.480 --> 00:29:42.319 we use to collect big pieces. So we will build something new and it 342 00:29:42.359 --> 00:29:48.519 will be more expensive because we want to have the view of the ocean floor 343 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:52.920 when we collect those big pieces, and we know where to go because we 344 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:59.440 found the sparrows in very specific locations, and now it's also of like a 345 00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:03.759 treasure and now we know where to go. I mean, another way to 346 00:30:03.799 --> 00:30:08.720 think of the sparrows is like rose pedals that lead us to our lover, 347 00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:15.480 which is the whatever it is left, the bigger pieces that were left from 348 00:30:15.519 --> 00:30:21.759 from the object. We should let our listeners know that these aren't engine parts 349 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:26.119 or anything. These are micro fragments that were you're looking for. Do you 350 00:30:26.200 --> 00:30:33.599 have any sense intuition or any conscious awareness of this being more than just another 351 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:41.400 asteroid like the omat yeah ooma. By the way, it's still a mystery 352 00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:48.880 because it was the other interested our object discovered almost four years later, and 353 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:55.799 it appeared to be different than asteroids or comments that we're familiar with in the 354 00:30:55.799 --> 00:31:00.599 Solar system. It had a flat shape based on the reflection of sunlight as 355 00:31:00.640 --> 00:31:07.440 it was stumbling every eight hours, and also it had some push away from 356 00:31:07.480 --> 00:31:14.200 the sun without showing a commentary evaporation, and I interpreted that to be the 357 00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:19.480 push created by the reflection of sunlight from it. And actually three years later, 358 00:31:21.680 --> 00:31:26.240 in September twenty twenty, there was another object discovered that had the same 359 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:33.359 qualities of being pushed by reflecting sunlight without a commentary tail without evaporating. That 360 00:31:33.400 --> 00:31:37.519 one was a rocket booster that NASA launched in nineteen sixty six, so we 361 00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:42.519 know it was art efficient, so it's also possible that was art efficient. 362 00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:49.960 The question is who created it. But the interesting point is that both objects, 363 00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:57.480 the meteor and Omamoa, were outliers. They looked different than the rocks 364 00:31:57.519 --> 00:32:02.640 that were familiar with in the Solar System. So I think that is the 365 00:32:02.680 --> 00:32:08.400 way of the universe sending us a message that we should not necessarily expect the 366 00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:14.400 interstellar objects to be the same as a Solar System objects. I should mention 367 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:20.200 that after more, there was a commet found from interstellar space. It was 368 00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:25.480 named Borissov and after the amateur astronomer that discovered it, Gnadi Borissov, and 369 00:32:25.960 --> 00:32:31.000 that one looked just like a commet from the Solar System. So to me, 370 00:32:31.079 --> 00:32:37.359 it illustrates how unusual Oma and the meteor were in the sense that they 371 00:32:37.559 --> 00:32:43.240 did not look like the objects that are familiar to us. Because when we 372 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:50.279 see something familiar, we can recognize it. That was this commet borissov And 373 00:32:51.160 --> 00:32:53.640 a lot of my colleagues say, oh, was also a commet, but 374 00:32:53.720 --> 00:32:58.839 it was made of hydrogen, or was made of nitrogen, or was it 375 00:32:58.960 --> 00:33:01.519 dust bunny? In other words, an object that we've never seen before. 376 00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:08.839 But they say it's natural as well. I have difficulties subscribing to that, 377 00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:15.680 because there are challenges for each of these explanations. I mean, a hydrogenized 378 00:33:15.720 --> 00:33:22.799 berg would be evaporated before it arrives to us very quickly. It's not tightly 379 00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:30.279 bound, and nitrogenizedberg is just not There is just not enough solid nitrogen in 380 00:33:30.319 --> 00:33:34.680 the Milky Way galaxy. I wrote a paper about each of those challenges. 381 00:33:35.319 --> 00:33:38.599 And then a dust bunny, a cloud of dust particles just wouldn't survive coming 382 00:33:38.640 --> 00:33:44.240 close to the Sun when it's heated by hundreds of degrees because you need The 383 00:33:44.559 --> 00:33:50.920 suggestion was that it's density would be a hundred times less than the density of 384 00:33:51.079 --> 00:33:53.960 air in terms of the mass spernit volume. So that's to me, sounds 385 00:33:54.000 --> 00:34:01.519 like a very fragile cloud anyway. So my point is we should collect more 386 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:07.159 evidence, more data on those interstellar objects or other objects similar to them, 387 00:34:07.239 --> 00:34:13.519 and that's my plan for the for the coming years. Yea more interstellar objects 388 00:34:13.639 --> 00:34:17.519 or go after big pieces of the meteor and figure out that's the way science 389 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:22.000 advances no knowledge. I mean, there are lots of my colleagues who know 390 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.119 the answer. They pretend to be the adults in the room, but they're 391 00:34:27.159 --> 00:34:30.639 not seeking evidence and that's not the scientific way. And the other thing that 392 00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:37.559 your peers seem to forget is that you're looking for and wanting to open consciously 393 00:34:37.639 --> 00:34:45.000 to the possibility of contact with a foreign and et civilization. This is the 394 00:34:45.039 --> 00:34:49.440 problem we're faced with. We have so many in the United States. I'm 395 00:34:49.440 --> 00:34:54.559 talking about the scientists that are completely shut down to the possibilities of a contact 396 00:34:54.639 --> 00:35:01.840 scenario. And this is prevalent in our society. It's just well, I 397 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:06.400 would say, it's a self fulfilling prophecy. If you tell yourself the answer 398 00:35:06.440 --> 00:35:10.719 in advance, you're not seeking any evidence to check it, to test it. 399 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:15.960 And you know that started with Enrico Fermi, who said where is everybody? 400 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:20.519 I mean, that's not enough to ask this question, because you need 401 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:23.039 to be engaged in the search for everybody. I mean, if you are 402 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:27.360 standing at home and you are single and you say I have no partner. 403 00:35:28.039 --> 00:35:30.400 It's a self fulfilling prophecy. But to find a partner, you need to 404 00:35:30.440 --> 00:35:34.119 go to dating sites, you need to look through your window, you need 405 00:35:34.159 --> 00:35:37.440 to go out to the street, or at least to your backyard and search 406 00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:43.360 for anything that came from the street. And Enrico Fermi didn't even use telescopes. 407 00:35:43.400 --> 00:35:46.400 He didn't. He was just eating lunch at Los Alamos and waiting to 408 00:35:46.440 --> 00:35:53.119 see if anything comes around that maybe an alien craft. And space is vast 409 00:35:53.239 --> 00:35:57.280 and time is very long, measured in billions of years, so why would 410 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:00.280 they come exactly when he's waiting in Los Almos. I mean, it's very 411 00:36:00.280 --> 00:36:05.840 presumptuous of us not to search just because we know the answer in advance. 412 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:10.000 And my point is that only over the past decade we discovered the first objects, 413 00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:15.079 you know, that came from outside the Solar system, the meteor Mua 414 00:36:15.559 --> 00:36:22.039 Borissos. So you know, we should be open minded and collect evidence, 415 00:36:22.079 --> 00:36:27.239 and it requires a lot of work. So instead of people saying extraordinary claims 416 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:32.480 require extraordinary evidence and quoting Segand car Segand and that, my point is extraordinary 417 00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:37.039 evidence requires extraordinary funding, you really need need to put a lot of effort, 418 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:40.840 a lot of resources to find the evidence. And that's obvious if you 419 00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:45.000 look at other parts of physics and science in general. You know, we 420 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:53.559 would never discover gravitational waves unless the National Science Foundation would have poured the one 421 00:36:53.599 --> 00:36:58.679 point one billion dollars into the Lego experiment, and it took decades for them 422 00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:04.199 to make up those instruments that are sensitive to gravitation ways. If people would 423 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:07.559 say, oh, I don't see any evidence for gravitation waves, then you 424 00:37:07.599 --> 00:37:09.920 know, would not do anything. Obviously, we will never find gravitation ways. 425 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:15.400 So you know, we shouldn't expect things to fall into our lap. 426 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:17.840 I mean, there are things in life that fall into our lives, like 427 00:37:19.159 --> 00:37:22.239 if you look out, you see birds. Okay, so that's something that 428 00:37:22.280 --> 00:37:25.960 we are But if you want any anything beyond what we already know, you 429 00:37:27.039 --> 00:37:30.480 really need to put the effort for that. And the mistake made by a 430 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:32.559 lot of people is to say, you know, I already know the answer, 431 00:37:32.599 --> 00:37:37.760 and I don't you want to invest any effort in the search, And 432 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:43.000 then it's a self fulfilling prophecy that you will not learn anything new. Now 433 00:37:43.039 --> 00:37:46.960 you've just released your second book. It's called Interstellar, The Search for Extraterrestrial 434 00:37:47.079 --> 00:37:52.480 Life and Our Future in the Stars. Wonderful book for those of you listening. 435 00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:59.320 It just was released last month. What is it? What is preparing 436 00:37:59.400 --> 00:38:02.400 for interest? Our future? Is? This is what you're talking about right 437 00:38:02.440 --> 00:38:08.519 now. But I want just a brief overview from you. What is it 438 00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:14.000 consciously that we need to prepare? How do we prepare for that? Well, 439 00:38:14.079 --> 00:38:16.960 first of all, we should search for our neighbors. You know, 440 00:38:17.000 --> 00:38:22.880 it's not the it's not overous. I mean, for seventy years we've been 441 00:38:22.880 --> 00:38:27.519 waiting for a phone call in the form of radio signals, and you're knowing 442 00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:32.440 about the SETI program, which ye equation, which is like a grain of 443 00:38:32.480 --> 00:38:37.159 salt. It's so yeah. Anyhow, Yeah, and by the way, 444 00:38:37.199 --> 00:38:40.639 that it's very very strange because the SETI community was searching for seventy years for 445 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:46.079 radio signals and they have a problem with searching for objects. And I find 446 00:38:46.079 --> 00:38:51.679 that really strange because it's just another possibility, and to me, it sounds 447 00:38:51.719 --> 00:38:57.400 much more natural to search for objects that represent the other technological civilizations. The 448 00:38:57.440 --> 00:39:00.400 reason is simple. When you're waiting for or a radio signal, you need 449 00:39:00.400 --> 00:39:05.159 the counterpart to be transmitting it at the time, you know, such that 450 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.480 you will detect it. If they transmitted it a billion years ago, we 451 00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:14.800 would never see it because now it's a billion light years away. So however, 452 00:39:14.880 --> 00:39:17.760 if you are searching for packages in your mailbox or in your backyard, 453 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:22.880 the center could be dead. You don't need the sender to be around. 454 00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:25.840 And moreover, these packages can accumulate over time. You know, you could 455 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:31.440 have multiple packages in your mailbox. You can have multiple tennis balls in your 456 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:37.760 backyard that were thrown by neighbors, you know. And the thing about rockets 457 00:39:37.800 --> 00:39:42.800 of the type that we launch two space is that they move relatively slowly compared 458 00:39:42.840 --> 00:39:46.440 to the speed necessary to escape from the Milky Way galaxy. So so all 459 00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:52.039 of them will keep accumulating over time. And if other civilizations are using chemical 460 00:39:52.119 --> 00:40:00.320 propulsion, and there would be there will you keep collecting in interstellar space over 461 00:40:00.400 --> 00:40:05.440 billions of years, just like plastics collecting the ocean, And we just need 462 00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:10.119 to search for them. And that requires effort because the current telescopes that we're 463 00:40:10.199 --> 00:40:15.960 using can only see objects that are the size of a football field within the 464 00:40:16.039 --> 00:40:22.599 orbit of the Earth around the Sun. Only such big objects reflect enough sunlight 465 00:40:22.679 --> 00:40:27.960 for us to detect it. And I calculated that in terms of the meteor 466 00:40:28.159 --> 00:40:31.480 that the first interstellar meteor, there should be at any given time a few 467 00:40:31.519 --> 00:40:36.280 million of those within the orbit of the Earth around the Sun. A lot 468 00:40:36.320 --> 00:40:38.760 of them. We can't see them from the reflection of sunlight. We can 469 00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:46.280 see only one that collides with Earth every decade, and that is a rare 470 00:40:46.320 --> 00:40:51.559 event, and not you know, and most of them are just passing in 471 00:40:51.599 --> 00:40:54.519 the dark. We just don't know about them. And so we should make 472 00:40:54.559 --> 00:41:00.800 a special effort to find those interstellar objects that maybe you know, maybe there 473 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:05.320 are many of them are just space trash. They're not functional anymore, just 474 00:41:05.440 --> 00:41:08.480 like the spacecraft that we launched. Once they exit the Solar System, that 475 00:41:08.559 --> 00:41:14.840 will not be operational. There is, of course the possibility of another type 476 00:41:15.159 --> 00:41:19.400 which is functional, and that's what the US government is talking about. There 477 00:41:19.559 --> 00:41:24.880 was a hearing in the House of Representatives where three eyewitnesses talked about such objects, 478 00:41:24.880 --> 00:41:30.039 and the world extra terrestrial was mentioned multiple times over there, and David 479 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:37.480 Grush testified under oath that the US government has retrieval and reverse engineering programs for 480 00:41:37.559 --> 00:41:44.400 such materials. We still have to wait and see if anyone shows us the 481 00:41:44.480 --> 00:41:49.400 evidence. Until then we cannot be sure. But at any event, it's 482 00:41:49.440 --> 00:41:53.239 a frontier that was not studied by the SETI community, and they are very 483 00:41:53.280 --> 00:42:00.000 hostile to those studies, and I find it strange. I think it's complete 484 00:42:00.000 --> 00:42:02.800 really inappropriate, because if if the public cares so much about it, and 485 00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:07.239 the US government cares so much about it, it's our duty as scientists to 486 00:42:07.320 --> 00:42:13.320 attend to it and try to figure out the nature of these objects that pilots 487 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:19.199 military personnel, you know, intelligence agencies say they cannot figure out. And 488 00:42:20.199 --> 00:42:24.320 moreover, the entire field of interstellar objects, as I mentioned, is just 489 00:42:24.440 --> 00:42:30.079 that it's infancy. So I think we have a lot to find out, 490 00:42:30.199 --> 00:42:35.880 and it's really unfortunate there aren't many people within academia willing to engage in this. 491 00:42:36.519 --> 00:42:40.400 I established the Galilo project that I'm leading, and we have an observatory 492 00:42:40.519 --> 00:42:45.960 that is looking for objects in the sky, monitoring them twenty four to seven 493 00:42:46.760 --> 00:42:52.000 in the optical, infrared, radio, and audio, and we are analyzing 494 00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:59.760 the data with the machine learning software. And we have one operating observatory at 495 00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:05.199 are planning to make copies of it, the first one in Colorado, hopefully 496 00:43:05.239 --> 00:43:08.719 within the coming month for two, but more in the future. And so 497 00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.760 the way I see it is that this should be part of the mainstream in 498 00:43:13.880 --> 00:43:19.880 science because you know, it resonates with the public's interest and it's something we 499 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:25.320 can make progress on using the scientific method. We're gonna take a short commercial 500 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:31.280 break and we will return with av Low talking on his discovery and of course 501 00:43:31.360 --> 00:44:15.719 his new book Interstellar, will be right back. My guest today is A 502 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.480 V. Low, who has written a new book called Interstellar, The Search 503 00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:24.719 for Extraterrestrial Life and our Future in the Stars. And we're talking about becoming 504 00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:32.360 an interstellar civilization, one able to meet with and explore the universe with other 505 00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:40.840 worldly civilizations. One of the things I like about this new book, Interstellar, 506 00:44:42.119 --> 00:44:46.320 is the fact that you have classes of civilizations, and you have us 507 00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:52.559 as a D class, which is almost the lowest least of all of all 508 00:44:52.599 --> 00:45:00.559 the classes. But talk briefly about how we can improve our position and be 509 00:45:00.679 --> 00:45:08.199 more open and have politicians who are working towards getting funding to develop new programming. 510 00:45:09.039 --> 00:45:13.679 Right so, as of now, we are spending two trillion dollars every 511 00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:19.719 year on military budgets, and this is just to protect ourselves from others that 512 00:45:19.800 --> 00:45:22.320 may be trying to kill us or kill others. And my point is, 513 00:45:22.360 --> 00:45:28.519 if we change priorities and dedicated it to space exploration, we could have launched 514 00:45:28.559 --> 00:45:36.679 the CubeSat towards every star in the Milky Way galaxy, billions of them within 515 00:45:37.079 --> 00:45:39.719 this century. It's just a matter of priorities. And of course, in 516 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:45.239 reverse, that says that the civilization that was more intelligent than we are in 517 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:51.039 the sense that they allocated resources not to fight each other but to work together 518 00:45:51.079 --> 00:45:55.679 for space exploration. They could have reached every star in the Milky Way galaxy 519 00:45:55.719 --> 00:46:00.480 if they just focused on that for a century. And we should look for 520 00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:07.000 their packages therefore, because it might inspire us. And you know, obviously 521 00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:13.400 we if we get this wake up call, we might change our priorities and 522 00:46:14.199 --> 00:46:16.360 realize that, you know, we are all in the same boat. We 523 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:22.000 are all on Earth. This is a rock that is moving through space, 524 00:46:22.119 --> 00:46:28.000 and we should work together towards a better future. And in my book, 525 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:35.280 I indeed classify civilizations into different types. And we are d typed because we 526 00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:37.960 are destructive to our planet. You know, we are. We behave just 527 00:46:38.079 --> 00:46:43.840 like you know, visitors to a national park that throw bottles on the grass, 528 00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:47.079 you know, and we are destroying our environment. But if you think 529 00:46:47.119 --> 00:46:52.039 about it, the most intelligent thing that the civilization can do is recreate its 530 00:46:52.159 --> 00:47:00.440 environment. So that means creating life in the laboratory, which is possible almost 531 00:47:00.440 --> 00:47:07.400 for us now. And also if they happen to understand how to unify quantum 532 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:10.639 mechanics and gravity, they might be able to create a baby universe in the 533 00:47:10.679 --> 00:47:17.599 laboratory. These are qualities that we assigned to God in religious texts, the 534 00:47:17.679 --> 00:47:23.159 ability to create life, the ability to create the universe, But in reality 535 00:47:23.199 --> 00:47:31.760 it could be qualities that very advanced scientific civilization has. And the first question 536 00:47:31.800 --> 00:47:37.480 I would like to ask if we ever have an encounter with a more advanced 537 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:43.199 scientific civilization is what was there before the Big Bang? Because we don't know. 538 00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:49.000 We don't have a theory that of quantum gravity that predicts what happened before 539 00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:52.519 the Big Bang. And the reason I'm curious is first because it represents our 540 00:47:52.639 --> 00:48:00.440 cosmic roots and I would like to know, but it also touches the issue 541 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:04.119 of how to unify quantum mechanics and gravity. And finally, you know, 542 00:48:04.199 --> 00:48:08.400 I want to know whether our universe was created by scientists in laboratory. You 543 00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:20.159 know, was this an act by a scientist that understood how to make baby 544 00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:25.000 universes And we're talking about panspermia. No, actually, it's more than that 545 00:48:25.039 --> 00:48:30.320 planspermia. It's just the ability to transfer life between planets. And by the 546 00:48:30.320 --> 00:48:36.800 way, transpermia could happen just naturally, because we know that the Martian rocks 547 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.800 arrived to Earth, so if they had microps inside of them, they were 548 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:46.119 the tiny as developed, no more developed. So I'm talking about them. 549 00:48:46.519 --> 00:48:52.000 Actually, I'm talking about recreating life in the laboratory out of you know, 550 00:48:53.119 --> 00:48:59.800 a soup of chemicals, or creating a baby universe in the sense of, 551 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:06.280 you know, creating a whole universe out of nothing, such that this universe 552 00:49:06.320 --> 00:49:09.920 could give rise to you know, galaxies like the Milky Way, stars like 553 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:16.840 the Sun, planets like the Inside, and on those planets you might actually 554 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.159 make new scientists that will create new baby universes. So it's it's just like 555 00:49:22.280 --> 00:49:29.000 humans who are born into this world are able to create new humans that will 556 00:49:29.039 --> 00:49:32.800 make new humans and so forth. And so it's possible that the reason you 557 00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:37.119 know, there was a Big Bang, it's because a scientists decided to make 558 00:49:37.119 --> 00:49:40.159 our universe and we live in it, and we might be you know, 559 00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:45.679 an advance civilization within our universe might be able to create a baby universe all 560 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:50.519 over again. And so that's the possibility and discussed. And this would represent 561 00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:57.079 the most advanced level of a civilization that can create its environment. So it's 562 00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:01.599 not destroying it the way we do. Uh, it's not adapting to it 563 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:07.239 or modifying it to the better, but it's actually creating it all over again. 564 00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:13.559 And then to me, that represents the highest level of intelligence. If 565 00:50:13.599 --> 00:50:19.000 you can recreate the circumstances that led to your existence, you know, you 566 00:50:19.039 --> 00:50:22.679 can't do better than that. Yeah, I have always felt that when we 567 00:50:22.800 --> 00:50:30.760 have this first contact with a interstellar race who welcomes us to the planetary system 568 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:37.719 or whatever, we automatically evolve as a race. Just just the action of 569 00:50:38.199 --> 00:50:44.400 knowing that we are not alone changes our perspective. What do you feel about 570 00:50:44.440 --> 00:50:47.320 that? Yeah, that's that's exactly right. I mean we know it from 571 00:50:47.360 --> 00:50:55.519 our daily lives. When meet a partner obviously gives us a sense of meaning 572 00:50:55.559 --> 00:51:00.559 to our life. It gives us that the unity to learn something new from 573 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:07.480 a different perspective, and especially if the partner has been around longer than we 574 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:13.320 did. I mean, the example that I often say mentioned and the metaphor 575 00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:19.400 is, you know, we just came to Earth, the human species only 576 00:51:20.519 --> 00:51:24.719 a couple of million years ago, and that's about one part in ten thousand 577 00:51:24.800 --> 00:51:29.280 of the age of the universe. We are also not at the center of 578 00:51:29.280 --> 00:51:31.159 the universe. We know that we move. I mean, the Earth moves 579 00:51:31.159 --> 00:51:36.079 around the Sun, and the Sun moves around the Milky Way galaxy. And 580 00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:42.360 so if you arrive to a play and just at the end of the play 581 00:51:40.760 --> 00:51:45.880 and you're not at the center of stage, the play is not about you, 582 00:51:46.480 --> 00:51:52.880 and you better ask other actors what the play is about. You better 583 00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:57.800 seek them. And that's what I'm talking about, finding someone who has better 584 00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:01.039 knowledge about how the universe started and what happened in it. If I you 585 00:52:01.039 --> 00:52:08.119 know, the second question that I'll have is who came before us? And 586 00:52:08.320 --> 00:52:15.119 you know, where is the nearest party that we can join of other civilizations? 587 00:52:15.199 --> 00:52:20.719 And I would be you know, delighted to meet those And see how 588 00:52:21.079 --> 00:52:24.199 I mean, there must have been a lot that rose and fell, you 589 00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:30.760 know, that perished because their star extinguished, or life forms on those planets 590 00:52:30.800 --> 00:52:36.239 I mean within a billionaires. No matter what we do, the earth would 591 00:52:36.239 --> 00:52:42.039 lose its liquid water because of the sun getting brighter, and then we will 592 00:52:42.119 --> 00:52:45.679 have to move somewhere else because life as we know it will not be possible. 593 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:51.239 I want to talk a little bit about these UPA tracking stations that you've 594 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:55.239 developed. We've had Mary and Redneck on the program. He's a former NASSA 595 00:52:55.360 --> 00:53:02.880 GPL astronomer who had his own side in southern California, tracked them with cameras 596 00:53:02.920 --> 00:53:10.880 of his own and published it and was has now been harassed by he called, 597 00:53:10.920 --> 00:53:14.400 you know, the men in black, whatever you want to call them. 598 00:53:14.480 --> 00:53:19.880 How do you resist or move beyond that current state of mind with our 599 00:53:19.920 --> 00:53:25.360 government who just can't get beyond themselves that this is science and it's not secrets 600 00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:31.280 or military problem. Well, I don't see a conflict with government because and 601 00:53:31.679 --> 00:53:39.679 I didn't encounter such resistance from them, because you know the government is mainly 602 00:53:39.719 --> 00:53:45.639 focused on national security. Okay, so as long as you don't violate their 603 00:53:45.800 --> 00:53:50.360 interest in national security, I don't see an issue because obviously, I mean, 604 00:53:50.400 --> 00:53:52.719 if you come close to a military base or a nuclear react or, 605 00:53:53.239 --> 00:54:00.440 you're entering a sensitive area, and they don't want you to collect information because 606 00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:06.280 it can serve adversaries. Okay, if you make it public, but you 607 00:54:06.320 --> 00:54:09.880 know, most of the sky is not classified, most of the oceans are 608 00:54:09.880 --> 00:54:17.719 not classified except near strategic assets that the US has. So as long as 609 00:54:17.760 --> 00:54:22.400 you avoid them, and it's easy to avoid them, I don't see a 610 00:54:22.480 --> 00:54:28.880 conflict because you know, the government will keep monitoring the sky and those areas 611 00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:35.159 as a matter of national security, and you can do scientific work elsewhere, 612 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:39.519 and there is nothing to be worried about because astronomers look at the sky all 613 00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:45.360 the time, you know, they just focus on very distant sources of light. 614 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:52.840 They don't care about things passing overhead. And but that's why we built 615 00:54:52.880 --> 00:54:59.280 a completely new observatory, the Galileo Project allows us now to monitor the entire 616 00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:05.199 sky, it even locations. So frankly, I don't see any issue with 617 00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:10.719 US taking scientific data making its public. Of course, if we notice something 618 00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:15.760 that says made in China on it, then you know me, for me, 619 00:55:15.840 --> 00:55:20.880 it would be very boring. Actually, I don't care much about any 620 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:24.079 human made the object or any natural object from Earth, like a bird. 621 00:55:24.519 --> 00:55:29.239 You know, zoologist will be very excited about birds, and I'm happy to 622 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:34.119 give them any photographs we get on birds, but to me, it's boring, 623 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:38.480 And the same is true about human made objects, and we are just 624 00:55:38.800 --> 00:55:44.159 trying to figure out if one in a thousand objects may not be from this 625 00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:49.519 Earth, and for that you need to do a systematic study of the sky. 626 00:55:49.679 --> 00:55:54.320 Yeah, wouldn't it be easier? I mean, we know our military 627 00:55:54.599 --> 00:56:00.960 and NASA have four plus decades, probably six decades of data of looking at 628 00:56:01.000 --> 00:56:07.199 these originally UFOs now UAPs. In many ways, you're kind of having to 629 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:12.360 reinvent the will because you're saying, I don't want to bother with your secrecy. 630 00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.679 I don't want to sign a non disclosure agreement, And in fact, 631 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:19.840 when we first talked, you've were flat out refused to sign a non disclosure 632 00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:23.400 with I don't know, I think with Space Command, isn't it kind of 633 00:56:23.400 --> 00:56:28.400 a irritant for you to be thinking like, if they give me a little 634 00:56:28.480 --> 00:56:30.639 data, I can go a long ways with this. Yeah, No, 635 00:56:30.960 --> 00:56:35.239 that's exactly right. I would very much hope that they would be classified data 636 00:56:35.280 --> 00:56:43.039 that they can conclusively in fair that it's not of national security importance, because 637 00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:52.559 anything interstellar doesn't really relate to national security, you know, spacecraft that move 638 00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:58.639 at the speed that we launched. It takes them millions to billions of years 639 00:56:58.719 --> 00:57:04.599 to get to us from distant stars, and they didn't have us in mind 640 00:57:04.679 --> 00:57:07.440 when they started the journey. Also, they don't care about how we split 641 00:57:07.519 --> 00:57:13.519 the land on this earth among nations. It's not a matter of national security. 642 00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:20.440 Anything outside the Solar System should be scientific knowledge that is shared by everyone. 643 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:23.800 And therefore, if the government is hiding something right now, they should 644 00:57:23.800 --> 00:57:30.000 definitely release If it's related to things beyond the Solar System, they should release 645 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:36.199 it to the public so that scientists like myself can study them. Whether they 646 00:57:36.199 --> 00:57:38.719 have it or not, I don't know because they never shared it, but 647 00:57:38.840 --> 00:57:43.599 I'm not. The other thing that is important is I'm not waiting for them 648 00:57:43.639 --> 00:57:47.159 to declassify either. There is a huge community of people who are just eager 649 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:52.960 and waiting for the government to declassify materials. And you know, I decided 650 00:57:53.000 --> 00:58:00.159 to pursue the scientific method and just collect them the information myself, and that's 651 00:58:00.199 --> 00:58:06.400 the rationale behind the Galileo project. And I don't see a conflict with government. 652 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:10.199 I think that we are complimentary because they are not scientific organizations. So 653 00:58:10.239 --> 00:58:15.639 if they see something interested, they wouldn't know what to do with it, 654 00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:21.119 okay, and so that's why I think they should release it the scientific oman. 655 00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:25.079 But otherwise, you know, I don't I'm not telling them what to 656 00:58:25.159 --> 00:58:29.360 do, and I don't care what they do. I just try to you 657 00:58:29.400 --> 00:58:32.840 know, it's about time for us to be independent and collect the data ourselves. 658 00:58:34.360 --> 00:58:39.159 Yeah. I think your book Interstellar also happens upon the education of the 659 00:58:39.199 --> 00:58:44.039 public, you know, being more open minded. Let's look for this, 660 00:58:44.199 --> 00:58:47.960 let's get more money behind it, Let's let's have a programming, let's do 661 00:58:49.199 --> 00:58:54.519 you know what it takes to become an interstellar civilization. But on that note, 662 00:58:55.239 --> 00:59:00.920 would you say that that we are kind of parent I think recently we 663 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:08.119 had the government I think it was NASA Space Command asking the theologians how people 664 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.119 would react, how would they feel? I mean. And then the other 665 00:59:12.159 --> 00:59:15.800 problem, of course we've talked about this is Brooking's document that was written in 666 00:59:15.880 --> 00:59:22.039 nineteen sixty. I'm worried that they're still using that as a as a foundation 667 00:59:22.159 --> 00:59:28.440 for transparency and they feel that we're going to kill ourselves. I think that 668 00:59:28.519 --> 00:59:32.000 we're all like loving this idea, that's right, I mean, think about 669 00:59:32.880 --> 00:59:40.440 let's imagine we are fourth century back in time. So imagine the Brooking sensitude 670 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:45.320 asking theologians what they think about, you know, the fact that if the 671 00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:50.599 Earth is not at the center of the world, the center of the universe, 672 00:59:51.559 --> 00:59:53.760 how would the public react to that, and whether this should be disclosed? 673 00:59:53.800 --> 00:59:59.400 I mean, to me, it's a ridiculous question to ask, because 674 01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:07.400 you know, if people have problems adapting to reality, they should discuss it 675 01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:13.360 with their therapists. Okay. I don't want to lose the ability to study 676 01:00:13.440 --> 01:00:17.480 reality just because it would cause, you know, stress to some people. 677 01:00:20.679 --> 01:00:25.119 Because the reason is simple. There were lots of theologians back during the days 678 01:00:25.119 --> 01:00:31.400 of Galileo who were happy to put him in house arrest so that his voice 679 01:00:31.440 --> 01:00:36.719 will not be heard, so that people will continue to think that we are 680 01:00:36.760 --> 01:00:39.920 at the center of the universe. Okay, Now suppose they were. They 681 01:00:39.920 --> 01:00:45.039 would have been successful over the past four centuries, and we would not know 682 01:00:45.320 --> 01:00:49.440 that, you know, we are moving around the Sun. We would think 683 01:00:49.440 --> 01:00:53.519 the Earth is at the center, and then you know, NASA or Elon 684 01:00:53.639 --> 01:00:58.360 Musk would say, let's go to Mars. Okay, so then they will 685 01:00:58.400 --> 01:01:02.239 start shooting rockets, and the rockets would never reach Mars. Why because in 686 01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:07.719 this model, Mars moves around the Earth, and it's just the wrong model, 687 01:01:07.199 --> 01:01:13.360 and we wouldn't understand gravity, you know, the way Isaac Newton pioneered. 688 01:01:14.039 --> 01:01:16.880 So in that picture where we are at the center of the world, 689 01:01:17.440 --> 01:01:25.480 we just will never reach our destination in space. And so it serves a 690 01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:31.039 very practical purpose if you adapt to the reality without attending to what humans want 691 01:01:31.079 --> 01:01:35.079 it to be, because obviously we want to be at the center of the 692 01:01:35.159 --> 01:01:38.599 universe. That would have been much more flattering to our ego. But I 693 01:01:38.639 --> 01:01:44.639 don't care about the psychological stress that some theologians will encounter when they learn that 694 01:01:44.679 --> 01:01:47.960 the Earth moves around the Sun. That's not really because knowing the reality that 695 01:01:49.000 --> 01:01:53.559 the Earth moves around the Sun helps us accomplish our goals in space. And 696 01:01:53.639 --> 01:01:59.000 also you know on Earth as well, if you realize what is the origin 697 01:01:59.119 --> 01:02:05.920 of the seasons and the unite variations and so forth. So once you know 698 01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:09.119 reality, it serves you because then you can adapt to it. But there 699 01:02:09.199 --> 01:02:15.960 is a tendency of humans to you know, follow some imagined reality because it's 700 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:21.760 more flattering to us. And obviously one imagined reality like that would be to 701 01:02:21.840 --> 01:02:24.519 say there is nobody else like us in the universe. We are alone. 702 01:02:25.000 --> 01:02:30.639 That's an ordinary claim, and anything beyond that would be extraordinary. And I 703 01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:35.159 say that's exactly the opposite, because it's very arrogant of us to think that 704 01:02:35.239 --> 01:02:39.119 we are the only intelligent species that ever existed since the Big Bank, that 705 01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:45.760 Albert Einstein was the smartest scientists ever for billions of your that's organt, because 706 01:02:45.960 --> 01:02:52.760 there are billions of Earth Sun systems in the Milky Way galaxy alone, and 707 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:59.079 just to imagine that we are so unique and special doesn't make sense to me. 708 01:03:00.239 --> 01:03:05.400 What I find is that common sense is not common, unfortunately, And 709 01:03:05.480 --> 01:03:10.719 to me, the most common sensical thing to assume is that there are many 710 01:03:10.760 --> 01:03:17.000 things like us that existed before us, and we should then look for evidence. 711 01:03:17.320 --> 01:03:22.280 I mean, see if there are packages in our backyard that came from 712 01:03:22.320 --> 01:03:27.239 them. And that requires some effort. It's not a matter of opinion. 713 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:30.960 There are lots of people who easily may argue about their opinions. This is 714 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:34.719 not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of searching for it, 715 01:03:34.840 --> 01:03:38.199 and you know, and finding out whether we have objects from other civilizations. 716 01:03:38.239 --> 01:03:45.119 And unfortunately, you know, even though it sounds straightforward. There aren't many 717 01:03:45.119 --> 01:03:50.400 people doing that, and I hope to change the climate, the intellectual climate 718 01:03:50.440 --> 01:03:53.760 within academia, because I think it's a natural thing to do. Yeah, 719 01:03:54.000 --> 01:04:00.400 and you're you're doing it with these new tracking stations. Give you an area 720 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:09.239 where you're tracking the heavens and you pick up a UAP and it is good 721 01:04:09.320 --> 01:04:13.440 size and it's not moving away from you, Your your team is seeing it. 722 01:04:13.840 --> 01:04:17.119 How do you how do you divulge that information? Yes, By the 723 01:04:17.119 --> 01:04:21.480 way, I always ask my post dogs every week when I meet with them, 724 01:04:21.679 --> 01:04:28.880 have you seen anything normally? Have you seen a UFO? Yeah? 725 01:04:28.920 --> 01:04:31.960 I would like to know, because we do collect data. So but then, 726 01:04:32.639 --> 01:04:39.079 you know, once we see something really unusual and anomalous, then obviously 727 01:04:39.159 --> 01:04:42.519 we will have to verify to make sure that we're not being fooled, that 728 01:04:42.599 --> 01:04:46.039 it's not a drone, not an airplane, a balloon or a bird. 729 01:04:47.480 --> 01:04:55.599 And then we will eventually after verifying that using you know, all the information 730 01:04:55.639 --> 01:04:58.000 we have about our instruments. And by the way, it's a matter of 731 01:04:58.000 --> 01:05:00.719 the instruments recording it. It's not you looking at the sky and saying I 732 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:08.800 saw something. Because you can't trust the humans as you know, as much 733 01:05:08.840 --> 01:05:12.599 as the instruments, and we already see that from the Soccer World Cup, 734 01:05:13.239 --> 01:05:15.719 you know, the Women's Soccer World Cup, where a lot of decisions were 735 01:05:16.360 --> 01:05:21.199 by referees were made after looking at the video obtained by video camera and not 736 01:05:21.599 --> 01:05:30.239 asking the players what really happened. All the spectators and so instruments are really 737 01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:34.000 key for scientific knowledge. And so once we verify that, then we'll bank 738 01:05:34.079 --> 01:05:38.440 it open, you know, make it available to the public, write a 739 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:43.880 scientific paper that includes that the data and its interpretation, so you will be 740 01:05:43.920 --> 01:05:47.119 able to access that. And you know that that to me is the best 741 01:05:47.519 --> 01:05:50.360 approach, so people can then look at it, you know, just the 742 01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:55.519 way we did with the materials from the meteor. We wrote a scientific paper 743 01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:59.840 and we released the information that we have as of now, and as we 744 01:06:00.039 --> 01:06:03.960 collect more and more information about the remaining spirrels, we will also release it. 745 01:06:04.599 --> 01:06:09.480 So I think my question, though, A V. Is that you're 746 01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:15.360 more on the observatory or observing side of it with this program. I'm wondering, 747 01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:19.920 do you want to try to make contact? Oh obviously I would be 748 01:06:19.960 --> 01:06:24.639 happy to, but I mean, there's the protocol that you're setting up allows 749 01:06:24.880 --> 01:06:29.480 that, so My initial approach was to build the instruments that are pass you 750 01:06:29.760 --> 01:06:34.320 okay, so that do not engage no engagement the first thing, because you 751 01:06:34.400 --> 01:06:41.000 see, if if we engage before knowing that we are engaging with something from 752 01:06:41.000 --> 01:06:45.920 outside of this earth, that could be risky because suppose there is an airplane 753 01:06:45.960 --> 01:06:48.800 or a drone and we try to engage with it in one way or another, 754 01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:56.000 we might be sued by you know, we might figure an accident of 755 01:06:56.159 --> 01:07:00.079 the drone or the airplane. So first we need to identify that we have 756 01:07:00.159 --> 01:07:05.440 something anomalous that is not human made or natural on Earth. Once we do, 757 01:07:05.960 --> 01:07:10.320 then it's an excellent question that you bring up by what to do next 758 01:07:10.920 --> 01:07:14.480 and so. But the philosophy for the first step is to be passive. 759 01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:17.840 That so, for example, we had to decide whether to have a radar 760 01:07:17.920 --> 01:07:23.480 system. But I didn't want the radar system to be active, want I 761 01:07:23.519 --> 01:07:27.079 wanted it to be passive. So there are radio waves from television stations, 762 01:07:27.119 --> 01:07:30.400 from radio stations that are reflected of objects in the sky. That's what we're 763 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:35.199 trying to detect. We have a passive radar system. But then you know, 764 01:07:35.239 --> 01:07:39.360 if we do see something that is unusual, the question is what to 765 01:07:39.360 --> 01:07:43.800 do about it, And there is no protocol, and I prefer, you 766 01:07:43.800 --> 01:07:47.559 know, not to decide ahead of time, but the decide, you know, 767 01:07:47.760 --> 01:07:53.519 based on the evidence of what we you know, what we see, 768 01:07:53.679 --> 01:07:58.800 because when you have a visitor to your backyard, the response should depend on 769 01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:05.400 the the visitor. You know, if the visitor looks very sort of innocent. 770 01:08:06.159 --> 01:08:10.559 The first thing I would like to know is what is that visitor seeking, 771 01:08:10.679 --> 01:08:14.559 what kind of information? What does it do, and how does it 772 01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:17.840 move around? And what kind of information is it seeking? And then we 773 01:08:17.880 --> 01:08:21.199 can decide what to do with it, how to communicate with it. And 774 01:08:21.680 --> 01:08:28.119 trying to figure out a language that would be common or figuring out the signals 775 01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:31.479 emitted by a functional device, you know, that would be a huge challenge. 776 01:08:31.520 --> 01:08:36.600 And maybe we'll use our own AI systems to figure out what their AI 777 01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:43.640 systems are doing. Maybe you have a very powerful intention and you're intent for 778 01:08:43.720 --> 01:08:49.000 things are very very strong. It feels to me that you're intending for this 779 01:08:49.159 --> 01:08:57.800 action of a foreign of the identified act alien race to come to Earth in 780 01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:00.439 some form or another, and you want to happen soon, is what it 781 01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:04.479 feels like. Would you say that's an accurate statement. No. I mean, 782 01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:08.720 if it's there, I want to see it. The point is, 783 01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:13.479 it's not up to me, right, So we are just like ants on 784 01:09:13.520 --> 01:09:17.279 the pavement, you know, looking around, and if a biker passes by, 785 01:09:17.439 --> 01:09:19.680 you know, we would say, well look at that. It's moving 786 01:09:19.800 --> 01:09:26.000 much faster than we can move. But you know, if no biker passes 787 01:09:26.039 --> 01:09:30.279 by, then there is no you know, no new evidence. And so 788 01:09:30.359 --> 01:09:33.319 I very much depend on whether this is part of the reality, part of 789 01:09:33.359 --> 01:09:39.920 the neighborhood. Whether I depend on whether we have neighbors. So I will 790 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:45.279 not find anything conclusive if if we don't have neighbors, you know. So 791 01:09:45.359 --> 01:09:47.680 I just but I just want to engage in the search because it was not 792 01:09:47.800 --> 01:09:55.560 done until recently. And that's you know, that's is what drives me. 793 01:09:55.640 --> 01:10:00.399 It's not so much believing that it must be there, but more or to 794 01:10:00.479 --> 01:10:02.560 do with you know, if we don't search, we will not find anything 795 01:10:02.920 --> 01:10:10.600 fantastic. The book's called Interstellar, The Search for Extraterrestrial Life and our Future 796 01:10:10.760 --> 01:10:15.560 in the Stars. My guests today has been Avy lobe Avy as always wonderful, 797 01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:21.640 wonderful. I'm really so pleased to hear what we're what you're doing. 798 01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:27.760 I would love to see President Biden say, okay, Avy, you will 799 01:10:27.800 --> 01:10:32.000 be a representative when they come and visit us. But that would be an 800 01:10:32.000 --> 01:10:38.760 honor for me, Cliff. But what I really want the president, you 801 01:10:38.800 --> 01:10:42.880 know, I hope that it will happen in our lifetime. The President is 802 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:48.239 saying during State of the Union address, my fellow Americans, we are not 803 01:10:48.399 --> 01:10:51.720 alone. You know. That's the sent that I want to hear. Yeah, 804 01:10:53.640 --> 01:10:58.119 of course I'll be I will be the first to volunteer to figure out 805 01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:02.079 what these visitors want and how to communicate with them. Yeah. I think 806 01:11:02.079 --> 01:11:08.560 what you're saying is also we need to be funded in the billions of dollars 807 01:11:08.600 --> 01:11:15.159 to begin really doing a serious search exactly and only after we invested, you 808 01:11:15.199 --> 01:11:18.479 know, billions of dollars in the search and not find any anything. Only 809 01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:23.560 then we would be exactly the same place as the search as for dark matter 810 01:11:23.680 --> 01:11:27.359 are right now, you know, so within the mainstream of physics, we've 811 01:11:27.359 --> 01:11:30.880 been searching for things like the dark meta, the nature of the dark matter. 812 01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:35.159 We haven't found it yet. And you know on this front that the 813 01:11:35.199 --> 01:11:41.359 public cares about the government cares about, you know, seeking packages in our 814 01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:47.680 neighborhood from neighbors that was not funded. And so I do believe that if 815 01:11:47.680 --> 01:11:51.159 we had billions of dollars invested in this, we you know, it's just 816 01:11:51.199 --> 01:11:56.319 like taking a path that was not taken, you're likely to find some low 817 01:11:56.359 --> 01:12:00.800 hanging fruit. Yeah. I think education is here huge, and you have 818 01:12:00.960 --> 01:12:06.680 a lot of resistance, and you're doing fantastic work, aving much success on 819 01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:11.760 this new book, Interstellar, and let's talk again when you do your next 820 01:12:12.439 --> 01:12:15.680 Pacific Ocean dredging. Thank you so much for having me. It was fun. 821 01:12:20.119 --> 01:12:28.239 It's so refreshing to speak with a public official. He's not really a 822 01:12:28.239 --> 01:12:33.319 public official. He's more of a trailblazer in the fact that when we have 823 01:12:34.000 --> 01:12:40.359 off world undidentified aerial phenomenon UFOs, whatever you want to call him, that 824 01:12:40.479 --> 01:12:44.479 we let people know what's going on. We don't try to cover it up. 825 01:12:44.560 --> 01:12:49.920 What I mean, I don't understand why NASA and Space Command start being 826 01:12:49.960 --> 01:12:56.960 more transparent. You know. This also goes for Mars and in the Moon 827 01:12:57.159 --> 01:13:05.840 and all these revelations of civilization. It's just just beyond any common sense to 828 01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:11.640 hide it, you know, and Aby said it perfectly. If your mindset 829 01:13:11.760 --> 01:13:19.720 is is a fearfulness and the and the worry of being attacked at some point. 830 01:13:19.800 --> 01:13:27.479 Then your whole protocol is a skewed, unfriendly you know. I was 831 01:13:27.520 --> 01:13:35.680 reading this article that featured doctor Loebe and he actually describes how we're a shoot 832 01:13:35.800 --> 01:13:43.520 first, answer, ask questions later kind of a society and this is backwards, 833 01:13:43.640 --> 01:13:45.560 you know. And in his book, and by the way, get 834 01:13:45.640 --> 01:13:53.560 his book Interstellar just came out. It's very well written and it really gets 835 01:13:53.600 --> 01:13:58.920 into the whole protocol that we are dealing with right now with our government. 836 01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:02.960 And it's not just the United States, it's Europe, it's England. I 837 01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:10.159 don't really know how the Mexican and the South American government's approached it. I 838 01:14:10.239 --> 01:14:15.000 know they're much more more open to I think contact, and in fact, 839 01:14:15.039 --> 01:14:20.159 I think South America is having more contact where ships are coming lower to the 840 01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:27.359 ground hovering. Mexico is the same thing. More photographs, more videos is 841 01:14:27.479 --> 01:14:34.399 taken of UAPs than in America, and they're much better photographs too. So 842 01:14:34.920 --> 01:14:42.399 anyhow, long story short, Avy is really breath of fresh air, and 843 01:14:43.319 --> 01:14:47.039 I would like to see his UAP program at Harvard growth to the point where 844 01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:57.000 we are seeing more ships, we're seeing the next level of contact and let's 845 01:14:57.000 --> 01:15:02.439 stop this clandescent action where everything has to be classified top secret. So his 846 01:15:03.399 --> 01:15:10.760 view also was that, you know, if they began capturing UAPs with his 847 01:15:10.840 --> 01:15:18.520 facilities, his UAP detection protocol, and they analyze it and release it to 848 01:15:18.520 --> 01:15:26.600 the public, maybe that will force them to the government to release more data. 849 01:15:26.800 --> 01:15:30.359 Now. I thought it was interesting that he and it was very revealing 850 01:15:30.439 --> 01:15:40.479 that he was talking about this military intelligence release of data and basically saying that 851 01:15:40.560 --> 01:15:46.760 we have in our possession UFOs and they're being studied. I love that, 852 01:15:46.920 --> 01:15:50.239 and I hope it continues. And you know, if you just let them 853 01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:56.720 know that we know, maybe they'll release more data. Maybe they'll release the 854 01:15:56.800 --> 01:16:01.720 information on these ships. I'm more doubtful of that than anything else, because 855 01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:10.439 that would really, I mean, it would be so fantastic and maybe embarrass 856 01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:14.159 them. I don't know. I'm kind of on the fence about them releasing 857 01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:19.279 information on these ships. I don't know why we can't have one of these 858 01:16:19.399 --> 01:16:26.359 rovers bump into a temple on Mars. We see pictures of staircases and buildings 859 01:16:26.359 --> 01:16:30.720 and stuff like that. Let's let's start something easy, you know, I 860 01:16:30.760 --> 01:16:32.439 think what LOBE is doing is easy too, just like, hey, this 861 01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:36.720 is these are UAPs. They're not from our world, They're from interstellar or 862 01:16:36.800 --> 01:16:42.279 space. That's a good starting part. But I also think that archaeological ruins 863 01:16:42.279 --> 01:16:48.000 on another planet is also a good place to be and kind of really lets 864 01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:55.479 people know, lets them in on the information without having to see an alien. 865 01:16:56.800 --> 01:17:00.720 So lots to think of, and I really appreciate shade Avy joining me. 866 01:17:01.319 --> 01:17:04.239 He is such a pleasure, such a breath of fresh air. And 867 01:17:04.319 --> 01:17:12.159 I'm aware that he is dealing with a lot and it must be very stressful 868 01:17:12.199 --> 01:17:16.560 to have to deal with the government in the manner that he does. But 869 01:17:16.720 --> 01:17:21.760 if what he says is true and he's able to release data to the general 870 01:17:21.800 --> 01:17:29.520 public of a significant nature, I think that's a starting point, starting point 871 01:17:29.560 --> 01:17:38.439 for all of us. Disclosure. It's all about disclosure. Fun. Hey 872 01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:41.760 Earth Ancients does tours, and I gotta tell you, we've been doing tours 873 01:17:41.760 --> 01:17:46.439 since twenty eighteen. We have a blast. We go to Mexico, we 874 01:17:46.600 --> 01:17:53.399 go to Egypt every year. We are now going to Turkey in August of 875 01:17:53.439 --> 01:17:59.439 twenty twenty four. We still have one or two spaces on our annual Mexico 876 01:17:59.520 --> 01:18:03.079 tour that's going to be in November, November tenth through the seventeenth. We 877 01:18:03.159 --> 01:18:09.439 all meet in Villa Harmosa and we see Leventa. This is the this is 878 01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:14.920 the ancient Omec city, and this is where many of these gigantic basalt heads 879 01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:18.239 are located, as well as a number of megalithic sculptures. We're going to 880 01:18:18.319 --> 01:18:23.359 be there for a day and then we bust. I think it's a couple 881 01:18:23.319 --> 01:18:30.399 of hours away to Polank and Polank is the site of one of the largest 882 01:18:30.439 --> 01:18:38.920 and most sophisticated Mayan cities that will visit. Our host is doctor Edwin Barnhard. 883 01:18:38.960 --> 01:18:43.600 We're there with him on one opening day, and then the second day 884 01:18:43.800 --> 01:18:47.279 we get the archaeological view, which is off limits to the general public. 885 01:18:47.720 --> 01:18:54.520 He will show us the unexcavated ruins that no one gets to see. That's 886 01:18:54.520 --> 01:18:58.359 going to be a blast. We'll go to Bottom Peck the following day and 887 01:18:58.520 --> 01:19:03.560 two other locations. This is a short one week tour November tenth to seventeenth. 888 01:19:03.600 --> 01:19:06.800 Come out and join us. For more information in the itinerary, go 889 01:19:06.840 --> 01:19:13.079 to Earth Ancients dot com forward slash tours. I think we're at twenty two 890 01:19:13.119 --> 01:19:15.880 people. I think we'll take a couple more. If you want to join 891 01:19:15.960 --> 01:19:19.439 us, go ahead and sign up now. I made a recent announcement. 892 01:19:19.479 --> 01:19:25.800 We're doing our Grand Egyptian Tour. It's April twenty eighth through May ninth. 893 01:19:26.279 --> 01:19:30.000 I think we're half full right now. But this is a real world class 894 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:31.800 tour. I talk about it all the time. You get there. As 895 01:19:31.800 --> 01:19:36.520 soon as you hit the airport in Cairo, everything's handled. Everything's handled from 896 01:19:36.560 --> 01:19:43.640 start to finish. We see multiple pyramids, temples, buildings, museums. 897 01:19:43.720 --> 01:19:49.399 It is a blast. It is eye opening and it is fantastic. For 898 01:19:49.479 --> 01:19:55.520 more information and all the details, including an itinerary, go to Earth Ancients 899 01:19:55.560 --> 01:20:00.239 dot com, Forward Slash Tours, check it out. It's a great tour 900 01:20:00.079 --> 01:20:04.239 and we're filling up fast. I gotta mention this too. Most of these 901 01:20:04.279 --> 01:20:09.960 tours are around ten to twelve thousand dollars. It's just insane what they want, 902 01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:14.279 and it doesn't have to be that much. Our tours are right around 903 01:20:14.399 --> 01:20:19.600 five thousand US. But everything is covered. Everything. As soon as you 904 01:20:19.680 --> 01:20:28.720 get there, you are treated like an ambassador from your state or your country, 905 01:20:29.199 --> 01:20:31.920 and you are treated like royalty. It's a great tour. Up the 906 01:20:31.960 --> 01:20:36.439 food, the beverages, the tour, the friendships. It's just really, 907 01:20:36.479 --> 01:20:41.960 really really great and I encourage everyone to come out and do our Grand Egyptian 908 01:20:42.000 --> 01:20:46.680 Tour April twenty eight through May ninth. Wonderful Tour twenty twenty four. By 909 01:20:46.720 --> 01:20:51.319 the way, Okay, finally we just announced Turkey. Turkey is going to 910 01:20:51.359 --> 01:20:56.279 be in August. Still don't have the details yet, but if you want 911 01:20:56.279 --> 01:21:00.119 to go to Turkey, it's twelve days exploration. We're gonna see gobeck Be, 912 01:21:00.199 --> 01:21:04.119 Teppi, Kahan, Teppi, Darren Kuru. We're gonna see a lot 913 01:21:04.159 --> 01:21:11.600 of the outdoor temples that are recently excavated, the museums in Istanbul or Fantastic. 914 01:21:12.439 --> 01:21:16.319 We will see some of the most intriguing and ancient sites you can ever 915 01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:19.479 imagine. It's the first time we've been there. I've never been to this 916 01:21:19.520 --> 01:21:24.119 part of Turkey, and we're looking forward to it. If you want to 917 01:21:24.239 --> 01:21:30.199 join us, send me an email Earth Ancients for you at gmail dot com 918 01:21:30.199 --> 01:21:33.000 and say Cliff, I'd like to join you and I want more information. 919 01:21:33.279 --> 01:21:36.560 I'll get it out to you. Get that to me quickly. It's funny 920 01:21:36.600 --> 01:21:42.680 because I've been getting emails from many of our older poor guests who want to 921 01:21:42.760 --> 01:21:47.000 join us. So again, for more information to me an email to Earth 922 01:21:47.039 --> 01:21:51.520 Ancients for you at gmail dot com. I'll get you the information pretty quickly. 923 01:21:51.640 --> 01:21:56.600 I'm hoping to have it before the end of the month and we'll get 924 01:21:56.600 --> 01:22:00.359 to you as soon as we can. So Earth Ancients tours are last. 925 01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:03.880 We make them as reasonable as possible, and everything's covered. And you know, 926 01:22:03.920 --> 01:22:10.319 we travel in luxury, we fly, we bust, and we tour. 927 01:22:10.439 --> 01:22:13.279 It's a great time. All right. That's it for this program. 928 01:22:13.279 --> 01:22:15.960 I want to thank my guest today, doctor av Lobe, coming to us 929 01:22:16.000 --> 01:22:23.039 from Harvard University. As always, the team of Ruth Thomas, Mark Foster, 930 01:22:23.680 --> 01:22:28.479 and Chris Hazel. Thank you for your great help and you guys rock 931 01:22:29.000 --> 01:22:31.239 all right, take care of be well and we will talk to you next time.