1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:06,599
Ask not what your country can do
for you, ask what you can do

2
00:00:06,679 --> 00:00:13,720
for your country, mister Gorbachev,
tear down this wall. It is the

3
00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:17,320
Ricochet Podcast. I'm Rob Long,
New York City, joined by Peter Robinson

4
00:00:17,359 --> 00:00:20,760
and Steve Hayward. Our guest today
is John You. There is so much

5
00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,480
talk about stay tuned and since I've
changed the law, what's happening. I've

6
00:00:25,559 --> 00:00:30,359
changed in the way that now you're
in a situation where there are forty fewer

7
00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:34,560
people coming across the border illegally.
It's better when he left office, and

8
00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:38,799
I'm going to continue to move until
we get the total band on, the

9
00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:44,159
total initiative relative to what we're going
to do with more border patrol and more

10
00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:48,960
as President Trump, I really don't
know what he said at the end of

11
00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:52,759
this, and I don't think he
knows what he said either. Hello and

12
00:00:52,799 --> 00:00:57,240
welcome to the rickshay Podcast. This
is podcast number six hundred ninety eight,

13
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:04,480
which is just I mean about the
mental age I think of the President of

14
00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:07,480
the United States. I can't I
can't believe I made that joke. I

15
00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:11,840
apologize it was too easy to go
for. I'm Rob Long. I'm coming

16
00:01:11,879 --> 00:01:14,959
to from New York City, one
of the co founders of Ricochet joining me

17
00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,319
as always a co founder, Peter
Robinson in Palo Alto, and we are

18
00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,760
joined by the brilliant, as always
Steve Heyward to talk about what happened last

19
00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:27,599
night, the burning of Atlanta,
and also our old friend who's going to

20
00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:32,879
explain why today was not just a
great day for the Trump campaign but also

21
00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:38,079
for constitutional law. Mister John you, professor John You, John, how

22
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:41,920
you doing? And a great day
for the Trump campaign today too. Yeah,

23
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:42,640
that's right. I said, it
was not just that, it was

24
00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,920
also a great day for the Supreme
Court. And we're gonna get to that.

25
00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,200
We're gonna get to all the complicated
stuff, but we first want to

26
00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:55,599
hear from Steve. I have something
to say that will be contrarian, slightly,

27
00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:59,200
I think, to some of the
media, but I want to hear

28
00:01:59,239 --> 00:02:00,400
what you thought of last night.
I mean, look, it's one of

29
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,439
those things where the whole thing was
been hashed over and hashed over and hashed

30
00:02:04,439 --> 00:02:08,360
over. But I just want here's
one here's my anecdote, set table.

31
00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:13,439
I was watching the debate with some
good friends of mine who are mostly on

32
00:02:13,479 --> 00:02:16,479
the left and mostly in public radio, and including a couple of very good

33
00:02:16,479 --> 00:02:19,879
friend of mine, a wonderful,
wonderful reporter, she's one of the best,

34
00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:25,319
and we're watching this thing together.
And about three minutes in she looks

35
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,639
at me, and I look at
her, and I asked her, I

36
00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:35,199
said, is this is this over? And she says, oh, yeah,

37
00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,080
it's over. It's over. And
the feeling in the room was that

38
00:02:40,159 --> 00:02:44,400
it was over very early, so
much so that people just started talking and

39
00:02:44,439 --> 00:02:47,199
having conversations and they weren't watching it
like you'd watch something that really mattered.

40
00:02:47,879 --> 00:02:51,520
Uh. And I thought, Oh, that's really I thought it was really,

41
00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,680
really fascinating. Anyway, that was
my insight number one. But give

42
00:02:55,719 --> 00:03:01,240
me your thoughts. Well, yeah, I mean that was burning down Atlanta,

43
00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,199
a great train wreck. All the
metaphors had been used. I have

44
00:03:05,319 --> 00:03:09,360
two thoughts that I haven't seen widely
expressed in the what eighteen hours since it

45
00:03:09,439 --> 00:03:14,159
went down. One is, maybe
someone has said this, but Trump's line

46
00:03:14,439 --> 00:03:19,280
early on, after one of Biden's
early incoherencies where he said I don't know

47
00:03:19,319 --> 00:03:22,479
what he just said, I don't
think he does either. I think that's

48
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,840
going to go down with Ronald Reagan's
there you go again from nineteen eighty is

49
00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:30,120
one of the great zingers in debate
history. The other thing is the thing

50
00:03:30,159 --> 00:03:35,159
that I have not seen anyone notice, is that I think Biden committed last

51
00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,599
night his own deplorables moment. You
remember Hillary talking about trump'sup orders or basket

52
00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:44,039
of deplorables. And I think people
haven't focused it on this because it was

53
00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,039
wrapping his whole incoherence. It was
on the abortion issue. And remember,

54
00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:53,360
Biden did something inexplicable. He pivoted
to immigration from his strongest point to his

55
00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:55,719
weakest point, and he says,
you know what Trump says, you know,

56
00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:59,319
an immigrant murdered somebody, and he
went to the funeral. I mean,

57
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,560
why you bring from humanity. But
then the next thing that came out

58
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:08,039
of Biden's mouth was this, I'm
a quote from the transcript, the idea

59
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:12,319
that she was murdered bye bye by
an immigrant coming in. And they talk

60
00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,439
about that. But here's the deal. There's a lot of young women who

61
00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:19,279
are being raped by their by their
in laws, by their spouses, brothers

62
00:04:19,319 --> 00:04:23,920
and sisters, by It's just it's
just ridiculous, and they could do nothing

63
00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:28,439
about it. I'm thinking, wait
a minute, he's he's Biden has just

64
00:04:28,439 --> 00:04:31,319
slipped and told us what people like
him think of Middle America, you know,

65
00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,279
the great unwashed, the working class, the people in the middle and

66
00:04:34,319 --> 00:04:39,040
they have to be we have to
have unlimited abortion because there's this what epidemic

67
00:04:39,079 --> 00:04:43,959
of rapes going on from family members
and incests. I mean, I think

68
00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,319
that was a slip that revealed once
again the condescension that people like him and

69
00:04:47,439 --> 00:04:51,560
Hillary and the rest of sort of
the leftist elite have for the what they

70
00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,959
call deplorable America. I I you
know, I got to share this one

71
00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,480
thing because I watched it. It
was painful. I had to turn away.

72
00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:04,439
I couldn't watch it anymore. But
as a former Justice Department prosecutor,

73
00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:10,279
I think that Trump is being prosecuted
on the wrong charges. It's not insurrection,

74
00:05:10,399 --> 00:05:15,800
it's not suddition. He should be
prosecuted for elder abuse. Elder Well,

75
00:05:15,959 --> 00:05:17,319
here's what I thought. I want
to get Peter. I want to

76
00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:25,879
hear you, your your your thoughts. Here. All of the commentary afterwards

77
00:05:25,879 --> 00:05:30,319
said, you know, the both
sides, Well, yeah, obviously terrible

78
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:31,800
for Biden. He was daughtering everything. But you know, Trump lied,

79
00:05:32,319 --> 00:05:36,959
It's all filled with lies, and
you know, I am no fan of

80
00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:44,399
the of the man or his presidency
Trump, but his lies, I mean,

81
00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:51,560
you know, capital L didn't seem
out rageously out of line for somebody

82
00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:58,120
presidential candidate. I mean they all
there goes pastor long defining deviancy doubt.

83
00:05:58,319 --> 00:06:00,560
I mean not really. I just
didn't. I just no point. I

84
00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,680
mean, look, he's wrong about
trade, and he was wrong about trade,

85
00:06:04,959 --> 00:06:08,480
and he's just and and and but
it's not a lie, he's just

86
00:06:08,519 --> 00:06:13,600
that he was wrong. So uh
anyway, so that part of my feeling.

87
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:17,800
But the second second thing is I
thought he the reason that he beat

88
00:06:18,399 --> 00:06:20,600
Biden, and he beat him,
and people say, well, it was

89
00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:24,199
it was a bad debate for Biden, but it was not necessarily good debate

90
00:06:24,199 --> 00:06:26,879
for Trump. I think it was
an excellent debate for Trump. I think

91
00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:31,639
he was angry for the American people. He was angry in our on our

92
00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:36,480
behalf, and that is something that
he really crossed a line there where he

93
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:40,759
was going to convince vote. I
think he's going to convince voters that he's

94
00:06:40,879 --> 00:06:46,000
not this narcissistic, malignant, selfish, kind of mentally and emotionally unstable person.

95
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,439
He actually is a candidate who's running
for you. Now I may not

96
00:06:50,519 --> 00:06:55,560
buy that all the time, but
I found his argument to be the most

97
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,720
coherent. And I mean, he
had his best knight in politics, I

98
00:06:59,800 --> 00:07:02,199
think, and Biden had his worse
the night. And they are living in

99
00:07:02,439 --> 00:07:06,439
fantasyland. If they are looking for
mistakes that Trump made, there gonna matter.

100
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,480
That's my That was my take.
Okay. Do I get my take

101
00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:14,040
in here? Do we have time? Absolutely? Okay? Thank you?

102
00:07:14,279 --> 00:07:19,759
So my take is a morning after
take. I don't disagree with a word.

103
00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:24,680
And if you said, particularly John
saying it was painful, I was

104
00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:30,720
watching with my youngest and youngest daughter
and my wife and we kept wincing,

105
00:07:30,839 --> 00:07:35,680
just wincing. No Biden fans in
that room, but just wincing at how

106
00:07:35,759 --> 00:07:40,240
horrible it all was. Yeah,
okay, So but when I say the

107
00:07:40,279 --> 00:07:43,680
morning after reaction, what I mean
is, if you look at the New

108
00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:47,519
York Times, Krugman has a column
the best president of my lifetime must step

109
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:51,399
down. Thomas Friedman has a column
Joe Biden is a friend, he needs

110
00:07:51,439 --> 00:07:58,240
to step aside. Nick Christoph called
for Biden to step down on Twitter before

111
00:07:58,879 --> 00:08:03,480
the debate was over. What do
I conclude from this? They had it

112
00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:09,240
already. Now consciously did they think
to themselves, this is the moment we

113
00:08:09,399 --> 00:08:13,519
finally begin the campaign to get him
off the ticket, or unconsciously, at

114
00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:20,240
a minimum, unconsciously. There are
all kinds of people who should have known

115
00:08:20,279 --> 00:08:26,160
better, including the professional journalists I
just named who were lying to us,

116
00:08:26,759 --> 00:08:31,639
or lying to themselves or lying is
getting overused now, but who are engaged

117
00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:39,320
in a long running act not purely
of self delusion, but of pushing delusion

118
00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,240
on the rest of us. And
at some level they knew it, which

119
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:48,240
is why they were able to pivot
so quickly. Oh, this is what's

120
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:54,240
happening, says Christoph as he's watching
the debate and tweeting, because at some

121
00:08:54,360 --> 00:08:58,720
basic level he knew it all along. So Steve. I saw that.

122
00:08:58,759 --> 00:09:07,240
Steve tweeted somewhere this morning, I
just reviewing my ex somebody tweeted the reason

123
00:09:07,279 --> 00:09:11,519
they agreed to such an early debate
was to give themselves time to replace him

124
00:09:11,519 --> 00:09:15,320
if he collapsed, And Steve tweeted, that's what I think, And you

125
00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:18,720
know what, it's what I think
too. When I saw the early debate

126
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:22,960
date way back when these weeks ago, when they both camps agreed to the

127
00:09:22,039 --> 00:09:28,720
todate to the debate. That's exactly
what if he puts in a performance that's

128
00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:31,360
fiery and more or less coherence the
way he did at the State of the

129
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,360
Union. By the way, the
importance, the political importance of his State

130
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:39,120
of the Union address had nothing to
do with his agenda. It was entirely

131
00:09:39,159 --> 00:09:43,919
devoted to shutting down the insurgency within
the Democratic to replace him. He was

132
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:48,840
saying, I want this job,
and here exactly I'm cohering. That was

133
00:09:48,879 --> 00:09:52,159
his cognition test or cognitive test that
Trump kept pushing for. It was the

134
00:09:52,159 --> 00:09:56,720
State of the Union dress. So
they weren't sure, but they thought,

135
00:09:56,759 --> 00:09:58,759
let's have an early date so we
can get rid of this guy. If

136
00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,679
he does collapse, well, he
has collapsed. Well the problem with that,

137
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,240
of course, is that you can't
get rid of him unless he decides

138
00:10:05,279 --> 00:10:07,799
to get be got rid of unless
you're convince him that he decided that.

139
00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:09,240
I suppose you can. You know, hey, Grandpa, this is what

140
00:10:09,279 --> 00:10:13,960
you decide to do. So it
isn't I mean, it's the it's the

141
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,519
best card day can play in a
very bad deck. Well, so let

142
00:10:16,519 --> 00:10:20,320
me let me put let me give
let me offer a scenario and see what

143
00:10:20,399 --> 00:10:22,519
you guys make of it, and
Steve and John is well we turned the

144
00:10:22,519 --> 00:10:26,080
show over to John in just a
moment when when we start to sing,

145
00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:35,039
yeah, okay, So here's here's
the way I see it. Within two

146
00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:39,000
weeks and maybe by the end of
this week, Joe Biden will have announced

147
00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:43,480
that he's no longer seeking the Democratic
nomination. He will release his and the

148
00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,320
politicking will begin immediately. Of course, he will release his delegates. At

149
00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:50,960
the convention. Everybody says Kamala Harris
is a problem. How can they possibly

150
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,399
set aside an African American woman?
And the answer is, there will be

151
00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:00,960
a big, fat book contract,
there will be corporate boards. She will

152
00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,519
be very comfortably bought off. She
may even be promised in an ambassadorship to

153
00:11:05,919 --> 00:11:09,720
the Court of Saint James or Paris. They will move her aside. How

154
00:11:09,759 --> 00:11:13,440
can they check the diversity boxes if
they get rid of her, because they

155
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:20,080
will nominate Whitmer Governor Whitmer of Michigan, who's a woman, and Rafael Warnick,

156
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,159
Senator Warnick of Georgia, who's a
black man. That will give them

157
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,000
a state in the Upper Midwest and
Georgia, or in my judgment, This

158
00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:31,840
would be the most powerful ticket they
could put forward. Josh Shapiro, a

159
00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:37,240
more or less centrist Democrat in Pennsylvania. He's Jewish. He would make the

160
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:43,240
first Jewish president if he were elected. Rafael Warnick. That gives them Pennsylvania

161
00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,960
and Georgia, and all of a
sudden, Donald Trump will go from being

162
00:11:48,639 --> 00:11:52,759
the younger man in the debate to
a man who is almost a quarter let

163
00:11:52,759 --> 00:11:54,120
me see, no, no,
who is more than a quarter of century

164
00:11:54,399 --> 00:12:01,799
older than the young, energetic,
telegenic, well spoken presidential candidate. This

165
00:12:01,799 --> 00:12:05,960
will happen by August or what do
you think? Well, So, first

166
00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:09,799
of all, before I answer your
question, can can I just say,

167
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,080
after Rob's speech a moment ago,
Peter Will and John Will you guys go

168
00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,440
in with me to have put a
hidden camera in Rob's voting booth in November,

169
00:12:18,480 --> 00:12:26,080
because I'm okay, I already mailed. I've already mailed Rob's right.

170
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:33,360
So, Peter, I think campell
Jill Stein right now in reverse order.

171
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,840
Peter, I agree with you that
Josh Shapiro would be the strongest candidate.

172
00:12:37,919 --> 00:12:43,759
I'm going to say something very crass. The Democratic Party cannot nominate a Jewish

173
00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:48,080
person at the top of their ticket
right now, they just can't. I

174
00:12:48,159 --> 00:12:50,399
think that's even that's even harder for
them than pushing Camel off the ticket,

175
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,360
you think, so, oh yeah, oh no, I'm convinced of this.

176
00:12:54,399 --> 00:12:56,600
I mean, I just you know, I'm just paying attention. The

177
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:58,559
squad just wouldn't stand for it.
The squad and you know, the prophet.

178
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,440
So the anti Semitism is now so
deep in the Democratic Party that there'd

179
00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:07,080
be a revolt against it. Be
a whispering campaign probably, but it would

180
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,960
be bad. Now. Now,
the second thing is, yeah, maybe

181
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,039
you can buy Kamela off with book
contracts and millions of dollars, but I

182
00:13:13,039 --> 00:13:16,159
think her pride is too strong for
that. I have another scenario, by

183
00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:20,240
way, if anybody wants to buy
me off. No, no, I

184
00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:24,720
mean we've established that. Yeah,
right, I have contact. I'll be

185
00:13:24,759 --> 00:13:31,440
contacting my local McDonald's, right.
I have an easier scenario that I think

186
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,720
works. Newsome wants it badly.
I'll bet he's been burning up the phone

187
00:13:35,759 --> 00:13:41,120
line since minute five last night.
He sponged the drool away from his lips

188
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:46,159
as exactly. Newsom and Kamela hate
each other. That's well known in California.

189
00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,639
Democratic circles. Yes, So if
you think that Newsom is going to

190
00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:52,600
be the person who wraps up the
nomination, then he stands up and says,

191
00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:56,399
gosh, you know, there's this
twelfth Amendment, and you know John

192
00:13:56,399 --> 00:13:58,840
can correct me, right, but
the twelfth Amendment has that peculiar passage and

193
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:05,039
says the electors from the state cannot
vote for both president and vice president for

194
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,720
people of their same state. That
means that they cannot vote because remember,

195
00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,799
you cast your vote separately. The
candidation run together, but you cast the

196
00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,200
electoral votes separately, which is weird. They can't cast a vote for Newsom

197
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:22,200
for president and Harris for vice president. They can't allow California's forty five electoral

198
00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:24,639
votes or whatever it is, numbers
fifty two to not go to a Democrat.

199
00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:28,679
You either surrender the vice presidency to
Republicans or you allow the Senate to

200
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,039
pick the vice president. That's the
backup feature in the absence of a majority,

201
00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:37,200
and the Senate might be Republican in
January. So you say, gosh,

202
00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:41,919
I'm so sorry, Vice President Harris, we just have to have somebody

203
00:14:41,919 --> 00:14:46,440
else on the ticket. Because of
this archaic passage in the Constitution, there's

204
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,879
nothing we can do or so terribly
sorry, and then they'll pick Warnock or

205
00:14:50,879 --> 00:14:52,440
somebody or you know, maybe Whitner
for running Mete. I don't know,

206
00:14:52,799 --> 00:14:58,120
but I think that's how it could
happen. That passes the and it allows

207
00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,240
the Democrats to focus their rage against
are archaic constitution. Right, So I

208
00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:05,080
think that's sound could go down.
Okay, So so are you guys are

209
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:11,639
overst and not just inertia, but
the Biden love of power. Yeah,

210
00:15:11,639 --> 00:15:16,279
you're any like the jaws of life
to prive these people lose it. Yeah,

211
00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,360
but here but here's the more serious
point is how can you say Biden

212
00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,159
is unfit to run for office and
leave him as president for the next six

213
00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:28,799
months? Right? If you're gonna
say he should step down because he's you

214
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:31,960
know, because he's senile, you
got to trigger the twenty sixth Amendment.

215
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,440
We got we're war. Two of
our allies are war. We've got the

216
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,480
worst, all these problems at the
border, inflation China and Taiwan, Ukraine,

217
00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,240
Israel. I'm gonna say, oh, it's okay to leave the seaele

218
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,440
guy as commander chief for the next
six months. But we're gonna but we

219
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:52,960
got to get him out of said
Robert Herr has said he's too old to

220
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,960
stand trial. He's too old and
senile to stand trial. But you know,

221
00:15:56,120 --> 00:15:58,440
if you guys want to continue as
president, that's up to you.

222
00:15:58,639 --> 00:16:03,679
We've all already made that decision.
The people in Biden world now have to

223
00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,759
They're the only people who have any
kind of power and leverage. They have

224
00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:14,039
to now explain to their elderly president
and their boss and their key to enormous

225
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,759
power. I mean, has there
been a presidential staff by definition that has

226
00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:23,039
this much power? Can imagine Whichoe
Wilson had a stroke and couldn't walk right.

227
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,600
So they're going to have to convince
him to do something the people in

228
00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:30,320
Washington, DC and probably everywhere else
can't do, which is to say,

229
00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:36,720
please take my power away, old
man. Instead, they're going to do

230
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,159
what they've been doing for the past
year or two years, how long this

231
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,519
this client has been and say everything's
fine, everything's fine. We're just there.

232
00:16:42,559 --> 00:16:47,080
And they're pointing to it today because
he did have a fantastic rally in

233
00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,200
North Carolina right he came out.
He was oh boy, look at that.

234
00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,919
Where was he yesterday? So they're
already trying to explain to people,

235
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,960
No, no, it was just
an off night. But the problem is

236
00:16:56,039 --> 00:17:00,240
it wasn't just an off night for
Biden, as they said, It's also

237
00:17:00,279 --> 00:17:03,079
a really great night for Trump.
And it wasn't about a comparison. Is

238
00:17:03,119 --> 00:17:08,799
that he came out and he mentioned
he mentioned twenty twenty glancingly. His answer

239
00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:14,240
on January sixth was a clever I
thought it was a good answer. His

240
00:17:14,279 --> 00:17:18,440
answer on abortion stunned the people I
was in the room with, because even

241
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,799
though it was a typical Trump nonsense, it was it had an intellectual and

242
00:17:22,799 --> 00:17:26,519
philosophical and emotional coherence to it that
I don't think a Republican politician has been

243
00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:30,440
able to articulate. I mean,
imagine, think of all the weird,

244
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,559
twisted turns that George H. W. Bush got himself into when he's talking

245
00:17:33,559 --> 00:17:38,000
about abortion. So this was a
guy who kind of had Now I don't

246
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,279
believe he's going to continue. That's
a kind of discipline that I don't think

247
00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:47,160
Trump has. But he had it
when it counted, And I feel like

248
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:52,759
the media is missing that argument,
missing that point because the Biden disaster was

249
00:17:52,799 --> 00:17:57,440
so so strong, so catastrophic.
Steve John, we can talk about the

250
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:02,960
Supreme Court in a moment, and
who cares about the Could we just talk

251
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,559
about rob which is him we got. I don't know whether talking about the

252
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:15,519
sea now, candidate. I don't
know whether to believe the demurals or what

253
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,240
comes after the demural listen. As
you guys know, I'm no fan of

254
00:18:19,279 --> 00:18:23,880
Donald Trump, but that was like
God last night. Didn't you that we

255
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:29,200
have to we have to look at
this the way it played out, and

256
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,599
we wanted to play out and it
played out. I mean, yeah,

257
00:18:30,599 --> 00:18:33,279
he was a little nasty near the
end, but he's he's a jerk,

258
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:41,079
right, He's a nasty But on
the other hand, he won that debate.

259
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,319
He didn't not lose, and I
think it's a it's a very big

260
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,319
distinction that people in the media are
not making. Peter I agree he won.

261
00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,359
At this point, Peter, I
like to repair to what our old

262
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:56,680
friend Milton Freeman used to say,
nothing counts before the butt we could use

263
00:18:56,599 --> 00:19:03,160
no right exactly exactly by the way, one small technical observation turning off the

264
00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:11,920
mics played entirely worked. It just
worked like a charm. I couldn't everything

265
00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:15,240
I read led me to believe that
that was what the Democrats had insisted on,

266
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,680
but it worked for Trump. Actually, what Biden wished is that he

267
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,960
could turn off as mic earlier.
How many times did they say, oh,

268
00:19:23,079 --> 00:19:26,279
by the way, I miss the
president. You have half your time

269
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:30,039
left to set as president? Right? The idea? What was the idea

270
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:36,799
again? H So I think I
I I what I hope for is just

271
00:19:36,839 --> 00:19:41,480
because of it's American politics. America
Fox is fascinating that we have an interesting

272
00:19:41,599 --> 00:19:45,559
summer with an interesting convention, and
I think we're going to be great for

273
00:19:45,599 --> 00:19:48,880
the country. To remind ourselves that
this is politics. We're not choosing the

274
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,480
pope here, We're not choosing the
father of the country. We're not.

275
00:19:52,519 --> 00:19:56,839
We're just choosing the chief executive of
the ad ministry branch. And that person

276
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,799
is by definition flawed, and we've
had a bunch of losers and miscreants in

277
00:19:59,839 --> 00:20:03,039
that in that role in a country
we just fine. And maybe we should

278
00:20:03,079 --> 00:20:04,519
go back to something a little bit
more political and a little less of this

279
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:10,880
show business pageantry that we've fallen into. Okay, possible. The other possibility

280
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:18,680
is that nothing happens, that it's
just the high wire act all the way

281
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:23,000
to November and Trump says something stupid
or whatever happens happens, and it's this

282
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:26,480
weird thing where we're worried about.
We're up till three in the morning counting

283
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:32,559
ballots in Pennsylvania and Georgia. Oh, I that one. I think we

284
00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:37,160
can rule out. If yeah,
if Biden remains on the ticket, If

285
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,039
to that extent nothing happens, he
loses. I just I cannot conceive of

286
00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,920
any way for him to come back
from last night. There's a Democratic Party

287
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:51,039
base of maybe thirty seven percent of
the vote or so a little under forty

288
00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:53,599
percent of the screen to vote for
the Democrat no matter what, and that's

289
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:57,440
about all he'll get. In my
judgment, there is just no recovering from

290
00:20:57,559 --> 00:21:02,920
last night. There's I know,
pulling back a Paul Krugman column that says

291
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,920
it's time for Biden to step down. There's no pulling back all this material

292
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,319
that will appear in Trump ads.
The business community will just say we're done

293
00:21:11,319 --> 00:21:14,200
with Biden. It's over. We're
not going to waste any money on him.

294
00:21:14,440 --> 00:21:18,920
I just don't see. Excuse me, I say all this, and

295
00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,759
then you're quite right. Donald Trump
is so wildly unpredictable. He may find

296
00:21:25,079 --> 00:21:29,720
some way of saving the situation for
Joe Biden. But it would have to

297
00:21:29,759 --> 00:21:36,319
be well, it would have to
be something that I can't even imagine anyway.

298
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:41,160
Oh so if I may I be
the little third grader writing report on

299
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,119
the virtues of democracy, I do. I will say so I've said this

300
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,200
morning after those bastards, they knew
what they knew, they were lying,

301
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,200
which is why they were so ready
to wreckon it, to change, to

302
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,920
sort of try to pivot. But
there is this to be said. Brashneff

303
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:04,160
remained in office till he died.
Chowchescu remained in office until the day there

304
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:11,400
was until the day he died.
In other words, the idea that it

305
00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:17,400
was a reassuring night for democracy,
this strange little ritual of a presidential debate

306
00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:21,240
that I don't think any of us
was expecting what happened last night. We

307
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:23,839
thought nothing would happen. It wouldn't
be consequential, somebody would get would win

308
00:22:25,079 --> 00:22:27,799
by some they both say, ridiculous
thing, and the polls would remain unchanged.

309
00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:34,839
In fact, we were all enabled
to see that Joe Scarborough who said

310
00:22:34,839 --> 00:22:40,519
the president is at his best,
that Jean Pierre, whatever the press secretary.

311
00:22:40,559 --> 00:22:42,920
Oh no, the president is decisive
and alert, and we have trouble.

312
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,920
It was all a lie, and
we could see it with our own

313
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,400
eyes, and the only system of
government under which we had been permitted to

314
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:59,240
see that is democracy. Could our
producer add a little swell of the national

315
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:03,319
anthem in the back? I need
to get I just hope you can,

316
00:23:03,559 --> 00:23:07,480
you know, over, you know, block out my weeping and crying.

317
00:23:07,519 --> 00:23:11,519
I mean, I'm so moved.
Hi, everybody, James Lonox here for

318
00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,720
Ricochet. It's June. It's the
first month of summer, and you know

319
00:23:14,759 --> 00:23:17,279
what's going to happen. Summer is
going to be gone like that before you

320
00:23:17,279 --> 00:23:19,960
know it. So what do you
do to keep it strong and long?

321
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,119
Well? You might sign up for
Ricochet at ricochet dot com. Join the

322
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,839
member feed, where you have endless
numbers of conversations with like minded folk and

323
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,599
those who want to argue with you
too. It's this place for sane,

324
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,720
civil center, right conversation. You've
been looking for all your life on the

325
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,960
internet, and you know what.
You'll be there for June, for July,

326
00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:38,079
for August, through the fall,
and no matter of fact, you'll

327
00:23:38,079 --> 00:23:41,799
meet new friends and be with them
the year round. So that's Ricochet dot

328
00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:48,799
com. Go there, take a
look. Thanks. Speaking of democracy,

329
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,440
We've got a couple Supreme Court rulings
to talk and I'm they link together in

330
00:23:55,440 --> 00:24:00,799
my head and maybe I'm wrong.
First case of question is what they call

331
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,519
the Chevron case, and the second
one is the SEC case. So that

332
00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:08,759
was earlier this week, and it
seems to me that the Supreme Court in

333
00:24:08,799 --> 00:24:15,920
those two cases is making a drawing
a very bright line saying if you're gonna

334
00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:22,400
have rules, and you're gonna enforce
rules and enforce fines and have semi quasi

335
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,440
legal proceedings, they have to come
through the judicial brands. Is that sort

336
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,440
of close now? Not even make
it stronger? And also include the January

337
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,799
sixth case, which is and this
is something that's been going for several years,

338
00:24:37,799 --> 00:24:41,839
but it's reaching a crescendo. Is
you want to call it the bureaucracy,

339
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,880
you want to call it the deep
state, but they are on a

340
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:52,279
generational losing streak. Now, this
is the main mission of the Roberts Court

341
00:24:52,759 --> 00:24:56,920
is to cut down the deep state
to size. Every time the deep state,

342
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,960
which I think is the permanent bureaucracy, gets up before the Court,

343
00:25:02,039 --> 00:25:07,680
they are getting smacked down. So
the first case Rob mentioned, the Chevron

344
00:25:07,759 --> 00:25:15,640
case. Should courts accept the interpretations
of the law offered by agencies, which

345
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:19,039
we've been doing for forty years now? The court says no, no longer,

346
00:25:19,079 --> 00:25:22,960
We're not deferring to what bureau bureaucrats
think about their own power. The

347
00:25:23,079 --> 00:25:29,599
Jarksey case against the sec Rob mentioned
from two days ago. Can an agency

348
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:37,519
try you or me before their own
court system with no juries? Course,

349
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,400
court says no. The reason I
think this ties in with the January sixth

350
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,640
case. Think about this, this
is can prosecutors right sort of bend and

351
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:51,720
twist the law to go after people
that they don't like? Again, the

352
00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,559
court says, no, you cannot. Even though the January sixth the cool

353
00:25:55,559 --> 00:25:57,319
you know, both sides of the
court are saying, even though the January

354
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:03,680
sixth protesters might have done terrible things, they tried to perhaps stop the peaceful

355
00:26:03,759 --> 00:26:07,880
chansfer of power. But they said
prosecutors again, the permanent bureaucracy cannot make

356
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:15,240
up or twist and turn with the
law to go after people without the protections

357
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,559
of good old fashioned American I'm not
going to say the word democracy as Peter

358
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:25,200
does because guess what, we are
not a democracy. We are thank god,

359
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,480
we are not a democracy, Peter. We have a decentralized government system

360
00:26:29,519 --> 00:26:32,799
with lots of things in it to
protect us from the majority of like the

361
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,759
juries, like the judiciary. Like. So that's what I think. That's

362
00:26:36,799 --> 00:26:41,079
how you can understand what the Supreme
Court term has been about is restoration of

363
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,920
all of the protections against big powerful
government. And that's what the Roberts Court's

364
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,319
really been trying to do for ten
years. So, John, can I

365
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:53,359
just just sketch out a timeline,
kind of a template or what the issue

366
00:26:53,519 --> 00:27:00,200
really has been. Congress passes a
law, and the law is and then

367
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,319
they have a clause in there saying
and the details to be just come later

368
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,440
from the mist of the blah blah
blah blah as such and such as as

369
00:27:07,559 --> 00:27:12,440
as seems as pertains this issue,
or some ridiculous boilerplate that is frankly anti

370
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:18,480
democrat. And then the agency has
this law which is essentially carte blanche to

371
00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:22,240
do almost anything they want. It's
like a star chamber law, and it

372
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:26,720
can be in anything. It can
be the consumer protection bill that the agency

373
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,960
that passed. It could be the
EPA could be almost any administrative body that

374
00:27:30,039 --> 00:27:33,400
has penalizing powers. And then if
you're running I I just was a friend

375
00:27:33,440 --> 00:27:36,920
who was running a business and they're
like, Okay, we're kind of in

376
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:41,160
a new area of industry and we
have to continually ask what the rules are.

377
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:47,400
And the agency that it pertained to
would not tell them what the rules

378
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,480
were, didn't have to was not
asked to, didn't have to decide what

379
00:27:51,519 --> 00:27:56,039
the rules are, only decided post
facto that they had violated the rules.

380
00:27:56,759 --> 00:28:02,000
So the idea was that somehow this
big the big businesses are trying to subvert

381
00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:06,920
the rules. But in fact,
most of these businesses have enormous compliance departments,

382
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:11,119
lawyers desperately trying to figure out what
the rules are. But those agencies

383
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:15,039
don't make the rules, they only
enforce the fines. And what Supreme Court

384
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:18,279
said is you can't do that no
more. Is that close? Yeah?

385
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,640
I would say that the Supreme Court
actually doesn't care about the big businesses and

386
00:28:22,839 --> 00:28:26,440
their compliance costs. These decisions are
really protecting the little guy. And maybe

387
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:30,319
the way you think of is this
way. There's two real models of government

388
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,960
going on here. One would be
the progressive model. Congress passes these vague

389
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:40,599
laws, like Steve's favorite statute,
the Clean Air Act. Oh you know

390
00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:42,680
what the Clean Air Act says?
The Clean Air Acts says you. The

391
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,000
EPA make the air clean. That's
about all the statutes says. And then

392
00:28:48,039 --> 00:28:51,279
the EPA is like, Okay,
let's have all electric cars within tenure.

393
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:55,559
Right. The agencies just go hog
wild with that kind of stuff. The

394
00:28:55,599 --> 00:29:00,400
agents will say, is the legislature
they're filled with corrupt politicians. Progressive think

395
00:29:00,599 --> 00:29:03,440
all the power should be transferred to
the experts, and then the experts can

396
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,920
issue the rules that are best for
society. And maybe that helps the big

397
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,440
businesses, maybe it doesn't, but
there should be rules issued by experts,

398
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:17,480
insulated from politics. That's the model
we've been living under since the New Deal.

399
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,599
The other model, which is the
Founder's model, I think, is

400
00:29:22,119 --> 00:29:29,119
we live in a decentralized government.
Concentration of power is the problem, particularly

401
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:33,720
when it has democracy behind it,
when we don't want to have majoritarian rule

402
00:29:33,759 --> 00:29:37,720
in this country. And so what
we do is we create lots of barriers

403
00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:42,480
to government action altogether. And so
in Rob's hypothetical, in that world,

404
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:48,079
businesses and people are free to do
whatever they want. Unless the government comes

405
00:29:48,079 --> 00:29:51,920
in after the fact, when the
legislature passes a law and a prosecutor comes

406
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:55,559
in and a court where a jury
blesses it. Otherwise, if they don't,

407
00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:57,039
they don't, if they don't give
you hard time, you're just free

408
00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:02,480
to do whatever you want. The
original eighteenth century constitutional model, and it's

409
00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:07,599
been supplanted by this progressive view.
And what this Supreme Court is doing is

410
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,359
trying to refer us back to the
original. So much to the Chief Justice

411
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,160
John Roberts, this moderate guy who
upheld Obamacar and so and so forth.

412
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,640
In his opinion today, he's talking
about how important it was to the founders,

413
00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:25,720
the founders that we returned to this
model. How important is to the

414
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:29,559
founders two days ago that we have
jerry trials. That's that is, That's

415
00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:32,880
really what's going. It's not a
big business compliance thing. It really is

416
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:36,240
that I think they think they're defending
the rights of the little guy against a

417
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:40,160
overly powerful federal government. Well,
I mean, and the case, John,

418
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,559
I mean, you know better than
I do. But the case Rob

419
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,920
involved the little guy. It wasn't
a big company. The lober Bright was

420
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:49,119
a fisherman, and fisher the fisher
We see now right that the facts were

421
00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:55,119
really shot person. You know,
the old Marine Mammal Protection Act said well,

422
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,559
the government can carry out inspections to
make sure fisher people aren't taking too

423
00:30:59,559 --> 00:31:03,039
many of the fish or something like
that, and that led the Department of

424
00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:06,279
Commerce to say, oh, we
need to put inspectors on your boats when

425
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:08,039
you go out to see oh,
and you have to pay for them seven

426
00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,000
hundred dollars a day. This was
a plot point in the Oscar for Best

427
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,200
Picture three four years back. I
think it was coda about the family of

428
00:31:15,279 --> 00:31:19,759
death fishermen in Maine or somewhere.
And but the point is, I mean

429
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:25,000
that could be the day's profit for
an independent fishing person, right, he

430
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,640
could threaten to wipe them out.
And it was never authorized by Congress that

431
00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:30,799
you could charge. Essentially, it's
a tax, one way of thinking about

432
00:31:30,839 --> 00:31:34,400
it, but it was never authorized
in the statute. And that's so there.

433
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:37,440
This is not a big company.
It was not involving Chevron. It

434
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:41,759
was involving a couple of people with
fishing boats. And the counter argument is

435
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,599
going to be from Gress's, oh, this means that all the things that

436
00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:48,119
the garment does are going to be
struck down. Now we're going to have

437
00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:52,839
dirty water and asthmatic air, I
don't know what other you know, And

438
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,039
children's cribs are going to start exploding
when you put kids in there, and

439
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,680
you know cars are going to drive
over old autonomously. You know it's going

440
00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:05,400
to be cats and dogs living together
like a Ghostbusters. You know, it's

441
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,880
gonna be the end of the world. That is really not what the Court's

442
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:12,279
about. What they're saying is you
can make all those decisions, but it

443
00:32:12,319 --> 00:32:15,400
has to be the Congress. It
does it people who are elected and accountable

444
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:19,960
to the people. Congress can't look. Congress likes transferring this power to agencies

445
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,039
too, because then they don't have
to take hard votes exactly. But now

446
00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:27,480
that that's the return of the system. I was at a dinner a couple

447
00:32:27,519 --> 00:32:32,039
of years ago with the Chief Justice
and I was asked to ask introduce him,

448
00:32:32,039 --> 00:32:39,039
and so I asked him to tell
us what we should know that orton

449
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:45,079
the people that was missed in the
coverage of the Supreme Court. And John

450
00:32:45,279 --> 00:32:50,400
Roberts stood up and said, what
people need to know is that the Supreme

451
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:57,519
Court finds itself in one bad spot
after another because Congress is not doing its

452
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:02,759
job, and he spoke that last
phrase with real anger. Actually, so

453
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:08,240
as a procedural matter, John,
the Court has now said, agencies don't

454
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,960
get to make it, don't even
get to interpret the law. Congress needs

455
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,799
to specify. Congress needs to write
good legislation. Is that what it comes

456
00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:21,799
to? Can we expect this group
of decisions I'd like to get to Mrthy

457
00:33:21,839 --> 00:33:23,440
in a moment, by the way, which was a disappointment that doesn't fit

458
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:28,920
the pattern we're discussing. But can
we expect that this group of decisions that

459
00:33:29,039 --> 00:33:36,400
taken together say Congress must legislate the
Court's interpret Federal agencies only do what they

460
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,559
are explicitly instructed to do by statute. Can we suppose that this will have

461
00:33:40,599 --> 00:33:45,960
an a tonic effect on Congress,
that it will now be forced to write

462
00:33:46,039 --> 00:33:52,720
better, cleaner legislation, to take
greater responsibility upon itself. So now I'm

463
00:33:52,759 --> 00:33:58,839
switching my hat to the now my
old other had former Senate aid and the

464
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,960
synic can me be like, no, oh, of course not what do

465
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,160
you of course? Pians? What
do you I mean? The thing is

466
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,840
they can pass precise laws when they
want to, right when they want to

467
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,559
pay off groups or anything. You
know, the tax code is very clear,

468
00:34:10,679 --> 00:34:15,639
right, appropriation laws very clear.
So, uh, this is this

469
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:20,679
decision itself doesn't give Congress an incentive, you're a political incentive based in reelection

470
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,960
to pass clearer laws. What it
generally just means is that the administrative state,

471
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,519
you know, the deep state,
whatever you want to call it,

472
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:31,039
has less freedom to get away with
things now under the vague laws that Congress

473
00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:36,480
is going to keep passing unless people
say, I'm not voting for people my

474
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:39,239
representative or senator unless they do their
jobs. But I don't I detect to

475
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:44,119
know interest in that in the in
the electorate. Yeah, I know we're

476
00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:46,559
going to we want to move on
to some of the other summarthy and also

477
00:34:46,599 --> 00:34:52,960
the obstruction case. Right, but
isn't it mean So the strangest thing about

478
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:58,000
these cases is that isnt it possible
at a year from now, in the

479
00:34:58,039 --> 00:35:02,079
first term and the first year of
the second term of the Trump administration that

480
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,119
the all the liberals screaming and yelling
about Chevron and the SEC decision will be

481
00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:12,519
saying, according to Chevron, the
SEC, you're not the administrative state can't

482
00:35:12,559 --> 00:35:15,000
do what what Trump? The Trump
administrator wants to do. I mean,

483
00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:21,199
shouldn't they be cheering this because it's, especially after last night, it's entirely

484
00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:24,599
possible they're going to be looking at
a Trump administrative state and not a Biden

485
00:35:24,639 --> 00:35:30,639
administrative state. I mean, yes, how obvious is that going to be

486
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,559
a year from that? I mean
if people who are court watchers should of

487
00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:38,800
course immediately recognize that. But they're
so overcome a course by who wins the

488
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,760
election they won't say it outright,
But yes, of course, if you

489
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,320
think, if you the more it
looks like Trump is going to win the

490
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:50,639
election, the more you're going to
see progressive start to embrace these decisions by

491
00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:55,360
the Supreme Court, right because Trump
Trump likes using executive orders too, just

492
00:35:55,400 --> 00:36:00,360
he uses them on immigration and building
a border wall. But these these same

493
00:36:00,519 --> 00:36:06,880
doctrines, I am sure will be
cited by the ACLU and the NAACP and

494
00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:12,199
immigration whatever law center the minute Trump
comes into office and starts issue in the

495
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,159
executive orders about deportation, building walls, and placing travel bands back in effect.

496
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:22,760
I am Andrew Gutman and I'm Beth
Peely, and we're a couple of

497
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,440
accidental activist parents who woke up and
started speaking out about issues that we saw

498
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:30,400
in our children's schools. So join
us every week on Take Back our Schools

499
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:37,599
on the Ricochet Audio Network or wherever
you get your podcasts Ricochet, Join the

500
00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:46,639
conversation. Let's talk about Murphy.
That was a disappointment last week, right,

501
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,159
Yeah, John, Yeah, that's
my line out of it is we've

502
00:36:51,199 --> 00:36:53,599
now got from the Supreme Court Murphy's
law. Whatever can go wrong with the

503
00:36:53,639 --> 00:36:58,519
Supreme Court will go wrong with the
Supreme Court. There's a pattern here,

504
00:36:58,599 --> 00:37:00,199
John goes back three or four years. You thinks us about it, but

505
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,679
maybe talk about the case first though. Okay, So this is actually the

506
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:10,400
return of standing doctrine with a vegance
or the standing doctrine is the idea.

507
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,320
If you look at the Constitution,
it says federal courts can only decide cases

508
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:20,119
or controversies under federal law. And
so the Supreme Court has said, well,

509
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,039
we're not going to decide everything everybody
asks us. There has to be

510
00:37:22,119 --> 00:37:28,000
a real dispute, a real case, not some made up case or someone

511
00:37:28,159 --> 00:37:32,519
just asking us to weigh in on
some policy decision where we have no real

512
00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:37,239
dispute going on. So that's what
standing is standing doctrine is essentially, is

513
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:43,079
the plaintiff here really the right plaintiff
to bring this case? Is there really

514
00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:46,639
a dispute that we can adjudicate?
Now. Why it's disappointing is because when

515
00:37:46,679 --> 00:37:50,480
you read the facts of what happened
to Murphy, and I actually think the

516
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,119
plaintiffs achieved their goal, which was
to air out all the things that Biden

517
00:37:54,599 --> 00:37:59,880
and his aides were doing to coerce
social media, to censor people. We

518
00:38:00,119 --> 00:38:04,039
now know that because of these of
these cases, even though you know doctor

519
00:38:04,159 --> 00:38:07,280
j and Scott Alisser and all the
other people who sued lost in the end.

520
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:14,239
But this is what this is how
I would read it. There's Murphy,

521
00:38:14,519 --> 00:38:17,199
there was another case earlier. There's
a lot of discretion in the Supreme

522
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:22,880
Court to avoid deciding things they don't
want to decide, and standing is one

523
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,480
way they do that. They sort
of say, ah, this is not

524
00:38:24,559 --> 00:38:29,400
the right plain, death is not
the right guy. I think what they

525
00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:34,559
were doing is they are trying to
get out of abortion, get out of

526
00:38:34,599 --> 00:38:37,760
these social media cases because they got
to have their powder drive for Chevron today

527
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:44,960
and the presidential immunity case on Monday, And so that's I think how judicial

528
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:46,320
moderates. Moderates think. I mean, I don't agree with it, but

529
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,440
they're like, well, some things
I'm going to be conservative, somethings I'm

530
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,920
going to be liberal. So these
all these standing decisions were their way of

531
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,920
giving liberals some wins, kicking the
can down the road and then saying,

532
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,519
oh, no, Chevron. And
that leads me to guests, I'm probably

533
00:39:01,519 --> 00:39:05,559
going to be wrong, but my
guess would be a Monday, Trump is

534
00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:08,039
going to get a much better victory
in the community case than I originally thought

535
00:39:08,039 --> 00:39:10,440
he would. I thought he wasn't
going to get any immunity. I think

536
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:14,719
he's going to get something now.
I also think that means that social media

537
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:19,400
companies will win on Monday in the
Texas and Florida cases. That'll be the

538
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,360
win for the liberals. But this
is like, I think this is not

539
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:23,920
kW with John Roberts are the middle
of the court. Things. We've got

540
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,519
to give some to the left,
give some to the right. May I

541
00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:32,519
quote from Justice Alito's dissent in Merthy. If the lower court's assessment of the

542
00:39:32,559 --> 00:39:37,800
voluminous record is correct, this is
one of the most important free speech cases

543
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:42,920
to reach this court. In years. Freedom of speech is essential to democratic

544
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,920
self government and to the advancement of
humanity. Store of knowledge, thought,

545
00:39:46,199 --> 00:39:51,719
and expression in fields such as science, medicine, history, the social sciences,

546
00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:55,079
philosophy, and the arts. Osial
obviously hasn't looked at Twitter lately,

547
00:39:55,119 --> 00:40:00,360
but go ahead. The government's behavior
was blatantly unconstitutional. Officials who read today's

548
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:06,159
decision may conclude that if a corrosive
campaign is carried out with with enough sophistication,

549
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:09,639
it may get by. This is
not a message this court should send

550
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:15,519
Two questions. A. Is he
correct? B? Can we agree that

551
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:20,840
he has now replaced Justice Scalia as
the most eloquent member of the court?

552
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:29,280
John question A on standing. One
thing that is true is that it's only

553
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,639
a case. It's only a holding
on this point if not being the right

554
00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:37,920
guy, So someone else can come
in and make the exact same claims,

555
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,559
but do them a little differently,
and they'll be able to get into court,

556
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:44,880
and they'll be able to get all
the way to the Supreme Court.

557
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:50,000
But the more important thing is the
main purpose of the litigation was achieved.

558
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:55,559
Everybody now knows all the things that
the Bright and White House was doing to

559
00:40:55,760 --> 00:41:00,320
force Twitter and Facebook to commit censorship. The real answer to this is the

560
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:07,639
political process. I think not having
the federal courts get involved with how the

561
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:12,000
platforms decide to you know, moderate
or censor, if you would call it

562
00:41:12,039 --> 00:41:17,320
that. The discussion feeds in terms
of your question too, is Justice Alito

563
00:41:19,039 --> 00:41:22,480
the most eloquent? I don't know. I mean, you know, Peter,

564
00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:25,559
you know, if you read Supreme
Court opinions, I mean, they're

565
00:41:25,639 --> 00:41:30,119
pretty pretty boring. So it's a
very low bar to be the best writer

566
00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:34,280
on the Supreme Court. You know, none of these guys are None of

567
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,239
these guys would have made it into
the writer's room on cheers, rob right,

568
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:43,519
Like they're not concise, they're jokes. Yeah, probably would be.

569
00:41:44,039 --> 00:41:47,840
So I don't think any of them
really approaching Justice Scalia. I'm afraid.

570
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:54,760
Oh you don't, so, could
I before we talk about immunity the Fisher

571
00:41:54,840 --> 00:42:00,719
case, could you explain the facts
in that case? And isn't that tremendously

572
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:05,880
important? Oh? You mentioned it
already, But discuss the facts in that

573
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:08,800
case and go into a little bit
more if you would. I think the

574
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:16,159
legal importance is minimal or it's small, but of course the practical consequences are

575
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:22,639
enormous. The legal issue is okay. So after the two thousand financial crisis,

576
00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:27,400
Congress passed a law called Sarbeins Oxley, and one of the provisions says,

577
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:34,880
when Congress wants information, you don't
mutulate, tamper, destroy, hide

578
00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:37,000
the evidence. Right, So that's
part A of the law. And then

579
00:42:37,039 --> 00:42:45,840
Part B says, or otherwise impede
the investigation. So the legal questions really

580
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:52,480
simple. Does that second part actually
mean you can charge people for anything they

581
00:42:52,519 --> 00:42:59,000
do that obstructs an investigation, like
say, threatening a witness, or does

582
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:02,400
it just mean don't otherwise destroy evidence
in a way that we haven't thought of,

583
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,800
right, don't otherwise mutilate, tamper
or ruin the documents. And so

584
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,840
all the courts said was, I
think it's pretty Actually, it's very simple,

585
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,159
and I think obviously give us the
facts in the case who was Fisher?

586
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,480
And oh, so this is what
happens. So that's the laws it

587
00:43:17,559 --> 00:43:24,079
reads. So the Biden Justice Department, for whatever reason, chose to charge

588
00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:30,800
people involved with the January sixth riots
in the Capitol with don't do anything that

589
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:37,320
could otherwise impede or obstruct congressional activity. And so they said, well,

590
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:42,239
if these people appeared on the grounds
of the Capitol, they stopped Congress from

591
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,480
completing the electoral count on January sixth, so they impeded the investigation. Fisher

592
00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:52,480
and the trial judge in this case, a very good judge, guy named

593
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:57,840
Carl Nichols. I know he said
no, obviously, that second part of

594
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,119
the law is only saying, don't
do other things to documents that we haven't

595
00:44:00,119 --> 00:44:04,159
thought of. I think he's like
obviously correct, because if it weren't,

596
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:07,119
then all you ever needed was to
say, just don't obstruct Congress. Why

597
00:44:07,199 --> 00:44:13,039
list anything? Right, It's like
so obviously clear. So that's why,

598
00:44:13,039 --> 00:44:15,119
I mean, the legal holding is
not that big a deal. The practical

599
00:44:15,159 --> 00:44:20,639
consequence of those that this rips the
heart out of most of the January sixth

600
00:44:20,639 --> 00:44:25,039
prosecutions. And I think Trump doesn't
need immunity anymore. That's the big thing

601
00:44:25,119 --> 00:44:30,079
that people have not noticed. Trump
is going to win on the substance of

602
00:44:30,199 --> 00:44:35,000
the claims now in the prosecution,
even if he's not immune. Because this

603
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,400
charge actually is the heart of Jack
Smith's indictment of Donald Trump, and now

604
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:45,079
it's been held not to apply to
January sixth, there's still two other charges

605
00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:47,559
left, and he's going to get
off on those because one is I mean,

606
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:52,079
I think this is Jack Smith is
an incompetent prosecutor because he charged he

607
00:44:52,079 --> 00:44:55,480
didn't charge Trump with insurrection, he
didn't charge Trump with sedition. He said

608
00:44:55,519 --> 00:44:59,239
he committed all those things. Joe
Biden, the head of the executive branches,

609
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,760
out there saying Trump did all those
things. They charged them with this

610
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,760
evidence tampering thing. That's gone.
The second charge is they charged them were

611
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:10,440
defrauding the United States, which is
usually used against government contractors, but the

612
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:15,639
Supreme Court has already said that's a
bribery law that involves stealing money from the

613
00:45:15,679 --> 00:45:20,000
government, and if there's no loss
of property or money, you can't use

614
00:45:20,039 --> 00:45:23,840
that charge. That's gone. So
the only remaining charge is this bizarre claim

615
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:31,840
under the ku Klux Klan Act that
Donald Trump deprived every American in the country

616
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:37,760
of their vote simultaneously and all at
once. So this this actually, this

617
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:43,199
evidence tampering law was the only one
that even had a remote chance of working

618
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,400
on Trump. So if I'm tru
Trump, you know, if you lose,

619
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,599
If Trump loses on Monday, I
still think he's gonna he's gonna win.

620
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,119
Can I can I ask you John
about a wrinkle in this case.

621
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,119
It's a six to three decision,
which we're still Fisher, but it was

622
00:45:57,199 --> 00:46:02,840
not sixty three Republicans versus Democrats.
Katanji Brown Jackson voted with the five other

623
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:08,119
Conservatives Mean and Amy Cony Barrett wrote
a dissent. What's going on here?

624
00:46:08,199 --> 00:46:12,880
John? Or Justice Jackson and Justice
Barrett? Are they both competing for the

625
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,800
David Suitor chair of Jurisprudence? What's
happening here? No fun? No fair?

626
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:23,480
Making fun of New Englanders like Peter
and Rob the enough challenges is is

627
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:28,119
okay? So first of all,
yeah, so one thing is this is

628
00:46:28,159 --> 00:46:31,840
that is really interesting. It actually
deprives I think critics of the case that,

629
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:36,480
oh, this is just Trump justice
side right prosecute, you know,

630
00:46:36,599 --> 00:46:42,079
letting Trump people off. Uh.
Ktanji Brown Jackson. Secondly, the votes

631
00:46:42,079 --> 00:46:44,920
didn't really matter. Still would have
been five to four even if you know

632
00:46:45,039 --> 00:46:50,239
Ktangi Brown Jackson did vote the majority, but she wrote a small opinion to

633
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:53,360
attach the majority concurrence. And she's
right. She just says, this is

634
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:57,400
a simple case. You know,
I wish it wasn't, you know,

635
00:46:57,599 --> 00:47:00,679
I'm trying to decide it without regard
to the January six protesters. This is

636
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:06,440
not about their immorality or morality.
This is just whether the prosecutors use the

637
00:47:06,519 --> 00:47:10,519
law properly. You know, she
might be someone who might be more favorable

638
00:47:10,559 --> 00:47:16,079
the criminal defendants and so might want
the government to have to prove its case

639
00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:20,880
and not make stuff up. The
Amy Coinney Barrett one is the one I

640
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,920
don't get because you know, she
clerked for Scalia. She kind of models

641
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:31,880
herself after Scalia tries to protect his
legacy. I can't imagine Justice Scalia taking

642
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:36,400
the same view she did. Yeah, mind you, this is let me

643
00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,039
use it. This is a criminal
was the view. What was the argument?

644
00:47:38,079 --> 00:47:40,920
What was her argument? So her
argument is, oh, well,

645
00:47:42,199 --> 00:47:45,960
you know, part be of the
law right and anything else that you can

646
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:51,039
think of them might impea Congress.
Don't do it. She thought that really

647
00:47:51,079 --> 00:47:54,360
does include everything, like, oh, they put in don't tamper with the

648
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,920
documents, and then they just put
in a general clause to catch everything else.

649
00:48:00,199 --> 00:48:05,000
Scalia, in his old age,
wrote this these huge volumes about how

650
00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:08,800
to interpret the law, and so
there's several examples Scale gives them this book,

651
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:14,199
which are on the side of the
majority saying, yeah, you don't

652
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,320
read Basically, here's here's an example. Actually, this is the example that

653
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:22,639
Chief Office Roberts gave, and Robert
liked it because it involves popular culture.

654
00:48:23,559 --> 00:48:30,000
Basically, he says, suppose there's
a football rule that says, don't pull

655
00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:34,239
people by the face mask, don't
you know, like trip them, don't

656
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,199
stomp on them with your cleats,
and then says, and don't otherwise harm

657
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:43,119
them. And so Robert says,
if that were the law, would you

658
00:48:43,199 --> 00:48:46,800
say that trash talk violates the rule? And he would say no, because

659
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:51,320
all the lists, everything in the
first list is about physical harm, and

660
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,320
so you wouldn't say, oh,
in the second part, oh, you're

661
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:57,159
never going to get everything else.
He said, nobody would read the law

662
00:48:57,199 --> 00:49:00,480
that way, a football rule that
way, although I constantly think the referees

663
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:05,320
who stopped the Eagles from winning the
Super Bowl due the rules this way,

664
00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:09,480
obviously, but really likes that's the
example Chief Justice Roberts gives. I think

665
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:15,239
it's it's quite compelling, actually,
and I'm not in favor. I've got

666
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,440
no brief for the January sixth protesters. I think they should all do be

667
00:49:17,519 --> 00:49:22,079
charged with you know, insurrection and
sedition, and the ones who are convicted

668
00:49:22,119 --> 00:49:24,199
should be sent away for a lot, but they can't be charged with insurrection

669
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,480
and sedition, or else they would
have been charged with insurrection or sedition.

670
00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:32,079
I mean to me, that's the
significance? Is it? The political I

671
00:49:32,079 --> 00:49:36,840
guess you just said that on the
law, this is an easy case.

672
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,119
Catenji Jackson Brown for the first and
let us hope the only time in history

673
00:49:40,159 --> 00:49:45,360
agrees with John Yu. Yeah,
this is an easy case, which suggests

674
00:49:45,159 --> 00:49:50,840
that the Justice Department lawyers knew that
the law that it was that they were

675
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,599
doing, that they were stretching the
law, and they still put hundreds of

676
00:49:53,599 --> 00:50:00,840
people in jail on this Kakamami chart
law that was addressed to Enron executives who

677
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:06,079
had been engaged in fraudult or destruction
of documents. So they and they were

678
00:50:06,079 --> 00:50:09,920
effectively the dj was effectively daring the
court. Yeah, we know it's easy

679
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:14,000
law. You know it's easy law. But look at the politics of this.

680
00:50:14,119 --> 00:50:19,119
We dare you to say it.
I think the Justice Apartment probably thought

681
00:50:19,119 --> 00:50:22,960
no one would appeal it because this
is such a high sentence right there,

682
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:29,159
going around saying we'll give you a
plea one year you be guilty, will

683
00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:30,599
give a year in jail. But
if you don't, we're going to throw

684
00:50:30,639 --> 00:50:34,440
this en wrong case at you and
you're going away for a long time.

685
00:50:35,599 --> 00:50:38,360
Most people will say, I'll take
the deal, right. They didn't expect

686
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,360
that there would be people who try
to get all the way the Supreme Court

687
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,800
on this misinterpretation of the law.
So we should all feel grateful to mister

688
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:52,719
Fisher and his council. Well,
I don't feel decided to take a little

689
00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:57,880
tour of the Capitol when he wasn't
supposed to. But right off hours,

690
00:51:00,159 --> 00:51:05,599
we should talk a little bit about
this. Uh, I don't really know

691
00:51:05,599 --> 00:51:07,840
what they're calling it right that it's
the outdoor camping rules. What I've been

692
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:15,000
calling it, which is the homelessness
as versus Grant's Pass six three decision are

693
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:20,679
in people from camping in public parks
and imposing fines on those who do.

694
00:51:20,679 --> 00:51:23,679
Does not criminalize the status of homelessness
and does not amount of cruel and unusual

695
00:51:23,719 --> 00:51:31,559
punishment. The idea that the Supreme
Court had to decide this is sort of

696
00:51:31,599 --> 00:51:36,559
shocking anyway, but it really does
have I mean, of all of the

697
00:51:36,599 --> 00:51:39,280
things that maybe have an effect on
the most people. Right that this this

698
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:44,400
decision does seem to have an effect
on pretty much everybody lives in the city,

699
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,960
around a city, or in a
state that is currently experiencing homelessness,

700
00:51:47,079 --> 00:51:53,840
or currently experiencing people who are currently
experiencing homelessness, or whatever' supposed to say.

701
00:51:54,559 --> 00:51:59,679
How how of all the ripple effects
of all the of all the decisions

702
00:51:59,719 --> 00:52:02,679
we got this week, this one
seems like it's pretty big, But nobody's

703
00:52:02,679 --> 00:52:08,719
talking about it's just because it's not
fancy. I think so, Rob,

704
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:14,400
if you think about what might affect
the daily lives of most Americans, of

705
00:52:14,519 --> 00:52:17,519
all these cases, this is the
one that will have the most direct impact

706
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:22,480
because you've got first of all,
let me, as an expert on all

707
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:28,280
things woke. I think the proper
phrase is the unhoused. Is that the

708
00:52:28,360 --> 00:52:32,599
right phrase the opinion. But the
opinion used the old term homeless? Yes,

709
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:36,800
yes, I think that was part
of the purpose, part of its

710
00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:40,840
its hate exactly right. So,
But you're right because and this is even

711
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:44,760
though in the other and this is
different than the other cases. If the

712
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:50,440
other cases are about the courts are
going to uh sit there and conduct close

713
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,519
scrutiny of what the administrative state and
the Justice Department is doing. This case

714
00:52:54,599 --> 00:52:59,480
is a plea for judicial modesty and
humility. This is a case where the

715
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:04,840
court says, almost this is a
terrible problem. States and cities have to

716
00:53:04,880 --> 00:53:07,679
figure out what to do and who
are we, the courts, to interfere

717
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,000
and tell them, oh, you're
allowed to try this, You're not allowed

718
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,519
to try that, based on an
utter misreading of the Constitution. Because so

719
00:53:15,559 --> 00:53:20,760
again, the simple case is,
the Eighth Amendment says no cruel and unusual

720
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:24,280
punishments. And it's I think proven
without a doubt that that is about the

721
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:29,840
sentence you get from a court when
you've been convicted of a crime. And

722
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:34,079
this lower court here, of course, out in California, said no,

723
00:53:34,079 --> 00:53:39,199
no telling people they can't sleep in
a public park. That's cruel and unusual

724
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:44,400
punishment. It has nothing to do
with the criminal sentence, has nothing to

725
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,719
do with what a judge and a
jury do to you after you've been prosecuted.

726
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:52,679
So it's easy that to say,
oh, the Eighth Amendment just has

727
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,840
nothing to do with management of who
gets to sleep where and how long,

728
00:53:57,199 --> 00:53:59,880
whether you can be moved along,
or whether you can be given a ticket

729
00:54:00,039 --> 00:54:02,400
and pay a fine. If you
now you could say, Okay, the

730
00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,159
punishment is too Like after you've been
fined, you could say, oh,

731
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:08,760
I think it's too much to be
fined fifty bucks for sleeping outside. You

732
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,639
could try to raise an Eighth Amendment
claim there. I suppose you're not going

733
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:15,760
to win, but you could try
that. But that's so that's the easy

734
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:21,480
answer. But the practical consequence is
power is now restored to cities and states

735
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,239
to try to come up with sensible
problems about homelessness. Yeah. I mean,

736
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:29,960
that's the point, John, is
that there's now no legal bar to

737
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:32,360
cities that want to do something serious
about the matter. I mean, up

738
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,679
till now, I mean, I
think the way this has been working is

739
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,320
you would have cities would try to
do something to move the homeless out or

740
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:44,559
whatever, and a homeless advocate legal
advocate to run to court and a look

741
00:54:44,599 --> 00:54:45,880
at a couple of Ninth Circuit rulings
that said, oh, it's an Eighth

742
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:51,159
Amendment violation and tie the hands of
the cities. And so now there are

743
00:54:51,159 --> 00:54:54,800
no excuses. You know, city
leaders could even if they wanted to do

744
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,400
something, or if they didn't,
they could say, well or hands are

745
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:02,599
tied by the cour and now their
hands are untied, and the results in

746
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:07,480
San Francisco will be Oh, I
have no idea. More homeless people are

747
00:55:07,519 --> 00:55:10,599
going to show up and live in
those luxury hotel rooms. Donald Trump was

748
00:55:10,599 --> 00:55:14,840
talking about, Well, the other
the cities around San Francisco will get tough,

749
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:15,880
and that's just guess what's going to
happen. Yeah, well, I

750
00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:19,719
mean it's well, a couple of
points on that. I mean, there

751
00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:22,880
was a report out from the state
California Legislative Analyst Office a month or six

752
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:29,320
weeks ago showing that the state has
spent something like fifteen billion dollars on homelessness

753
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,760
in the last ten years. And
it went through this technical all these flow

754
00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:36,599
charts about how none of the programs
are coordinated, and of course homelessness went

755
00:55:36,719 --> 00:55:39,320
up. A simple minded person might
say, that's because when you spend more

756
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,239
money on it, you're going to
get more of it. Well, the

757
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,760
California state just state legislature just passed
the budget for the next year. It's

758
00:55:45,760 --> 00:55:50,480
got huge cuts for lots of programs
because we're so much or so far into

759
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:54,639
red, but it has another billion
dollars in additional funding for homelessness. So

760
00:55:54,880 --> 00:56:00,840
there you go. Wow, it'll
be I think something that Donald Trump can

761
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:07,280
bring up in his debate bottomn with
right, Yesvin Newsome, Yes, right,

762
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:13,599
So so John, Actually this looks
like I mean, everyone wants to

763
00:56:13,639 --> 00:56:17,199
talk about Dobbs right with the with
the kind of a new sort of more

764
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:21,920
conservative makeup of the Supreme Court.
But this sort of collection of things,

765
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:27,719
it seems like this is this,
This is most this is most close closely

766
00:56:27,760 --> 00:56:34,320
resembles the conservative Supreme Court that people
have been imagining. Yes, yes,

767
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:37,559
can I say, like reading the
opinions closely, which I do. I

768
00:56:37,599 --> 00:56:38,719
do it for a living. It's
amazing. I get paid for it,

769
00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:45,280
but I'm happy to receive the money. Is uh. This is a This

770
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,960
is a Supreme court where all the
arguments I think I said this to you

771
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:52,639
guys about two years ago. All
of the arguments, all the debates are

772
00:56:52,679 --> 00:57:00,360
about conservative originalist methods. They're all
about how should conservatives who have disagreement about

773
00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:06,320
themselves properly decide these cases. There's
no more war in court. Don't read

774
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,960
the numbers of the emanations of the
principles of this amendment and the dignity of

775
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:17,280
the human being as we think best. That's all gone. Nobody to if

776
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:22,800
they want to get anywhere at the
court is making or promoting liberal judicial ideas

777
00:57:22,840 --> 00:57:27,440
anymore. Is dead. That's the
most remarkable with this. So if you

778
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:31,559
even receive the descents, the descents
by a Kagan or Soda may or thereabout,

779
00:57:31,719 --> 00:57:37,079
they're mostly you conservatives are not being
faithful to conservative ideas, or you're

780
00:57:37,119 --> 00:57:43,079
being inconsistent. Nobody's saying, Oh, the privacy right that emanates from the

781
00:57:43,159 --> 00:57:49,280
due process clause means that these twenty
rights in Emmanuel contact to be recognized by

782
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:52,519
our constitution. It's all gone.
It's just like gone, right, that's

783
00:57:52,559 --> 00:57:58,800
all gone. That's incredible change.
Critique this headline, This is on the

784
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:02,760
New York Times website at this very
hour. Justice is limit power of federal

785
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:12,360
agencies imperiling an array of regulations.
Subhead A foundational nineteen eighty four decision had

786
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:21,599
required courts to defer to agencies reasonable
interpretations of ambiguous statutes underpinning regulations on healthcare,

787
00:58:22,039 --> 00:58:27,000
safety and the environment. As editor, would you permit that headline to

788
00:58:27,039 --> 00:58:31,320
stand? I think that's true.
It imperils it. What they don't address

789
00:58:31,360 --> 00:58:36,920
in the headline is whether the regulations
were actually legal. Yeah. What they

790
00:58:36,920 --> 00:58:39,079
didn't understand is that people like us
read that headline and say hot dog.

791
00:58:39,199 --> 00:58:44,599
Yeah right, No, exactly where's
the bad news here? So, Peter,

792
00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:46,519
I always like to remind people who
are I think are not clear on

793
00:58:46,519 --> 00:58:52,360
this. The original case was NRDC
versus Chevron Natural Resources Defense Counsel. They

794
00:58:52,360 --> 00:58:57,519
were really suing the Reagan EPA.
And the point to keep in mind is

795
00:58:57,639 --> 00:59:02,800
the environmentalist position lost. The Reagan
administration won that case. Fast forward to

796
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:07,719
today. Who are the greatest defenders
of losing that case? The environmental community.

797
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:12,280
They're all over Twitter day saying this
we're doomed, right right, Rob,

798
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,559
I want to you put it earlier
that that means John did right where

799
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:19,159
you know the air is going to
get dirty? All right? It shows

800
00:59:19,159 --> 00:59:22,079
you the situational ethics of the left
of these matters. They lose a landmark

801
00:59:22,119 --> 00:59:25,960
case and then they become its greatest
champions. So what about what about the

802
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:30,199
ethics situational All right, let's put
it this way, situational analysis, even

803
00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:34,440
of our side. I simply don't
know the history here, but when that

804
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,119
decision was handed down in nineteen eighty
four favoring the Reagan EPA. Chevron one,

805
00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:45,159
we're in favor of oil companies.
I guess the Federalist Society was just

806
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:51,840
in embryo still in nineteen eighty four. But did Robert Bort write an attack

807
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:53,480
on the on the decision, in
other words, did it as a matter

808
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:59,440
of actually was handed down. Yeah, okay, So when roe versus Wade

809
00:59:59,719 --> 01:00:01,880
was handed down, all kinds of
people, including our friend Richard Epstein,

810
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:06,159
said at the time, that's a
terrible decision. I don't recall that people

811
01:00:06,239 --> 01:00:09,559
said that in nineteen eighty four about
Chevron. I think it's a little it's

812
01:00:09,639 --> 01:00:12,760
very much a product of his time. And in fact, actually this goes

813
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:16,199
with some of the other doctrines rob
mentioned, like the sec case and administrative

814
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:22,400
judges. Actually Conservatives used to be
in favor of these things. The Conservatives

815
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:27,079
were in favor of Chevron because what
the Reagan administration to do wanted to do

816
01:00:27,199 --> 01:00:34,079
was deregulate, and the courts,
which were still stacked with LBJ and Kennedy

817
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:39,280
and Carter nominee judges, were stopping
them. And so the Reaga mistrary said,

818
01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:43,519
you should defer to us. We've
been elected, and we were elected

819
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:45,800
to deregulate and the courts have to
defer to us. So back, well,

820
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,559
the same thing with this Jarksey case
about the SEC. It's actually chief

821
01:00:50,679 --> 01:00:53,800
Justice requist who used to be in
favor of getting rid of a lot of

822
01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:59,519
juries and courts because his worry was
the Left have created so many new rights,

823
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:04,079
particularly like social security and benefits cases. We can't have the federal courts

824
01:01:04,079 --> 01:01:07,440
flooded with these things. We got
to create these fake courts to hear tens

825
01:01:07,480 --> 01:01:13,360
of thousands of cases and get them
out. So actually conservatives too, I

826
01:01:13,360 --> 01:01:17,960
think actually the conservatives were kind of
like the tough on time and be pragmatic

827
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,719
and defer to the agencies once upon
a time. But I think now we're

828
01:01:22,719 --> 01:01:28,280
returning to our true roots. Was
sort of defending the Constitution's creation of decentralized

829
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,800
weak government. No, so I
have a slightly different view on the case

830
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,760
than John presents it. What's so
much the Reaganites wanted to deregulate, as

831
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:40,000
regulate more rationally. So what the
dispute was about, very simply was what

832
01:01:40,039 --> 01:01:44,679
does the word source mean in that
statute that John hates me to mention.

833
01:01:45,800 --> 01:01:49,800
The Reagan administration's view was it ought
to be the entire Chevron oil refinery,

834
01:01:49,840 --> 01:01:52,480
and we're going to look at the
whole refinery and figure out sensible, least

835
01:01:52,519 --> 01:01:57,679
cost ways for them to reduce air
emissions. The environmentalist position was, no

836
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,039
source on the statute should mean every
single valve and every single pipe and every

837
01:02:02,119 --> 01:02:07,800
switch, so that the EPA can
issue specific regulations about every tiny thing that

838
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:09,840
happens in the refinery. That was
their position. And that's when the rank

839
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:14,280
of the EPA said, that's stupid, that's expensive. It'll just lead the

840
01:02:14,360 --> 01:02:16,280
endless rulemaking and what a dumb way
to do things. And that was the

841
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:20,800
position that won. But it didn't
take the bureaucrats long to figure out,

842
01:02:20,840 --> 01:02:23,119
oh, if the courts are going
to defer to us, we can run

843
01:02:23,159 --> 01:02:27,000
wild. And it took a while
for our team to figure that out.

844
01:02:28,159 --> 01:02:31,480
You see why on our three Whiskey
Happy Hour podcast, I don't let I

845
01:02:31,519 --> 01:02:37,559
don't let Steve talk about the Clean
Air Act? See can I ask a

846
01:02:37,639 --> 01:02:45,159
question? I'm searching for this.
I don't know who was the the Chevron

847
01:02:45,239 --> 01:02:47,760
case was decided in nineteen eighty four, right, I know you're gonna ask.

848
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:52,159
I think who was who was running
the EPA in nineteen eighty four.

849
01:02:52,559 --> 01:02:59,800
Well, actually Neil Gorsuch's mother has
left by eighty four, so close.

850
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:02,960
You know, I'm so old.
I was thinking like this would have been

851
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:07,679
a great story, right that.
You know, the son avenges the mother

852
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:12,840
or the son under however you want
to look at it a little bit enough,

853
01:03:12,880 --> 01:03:19,079
eventually you get to overturn your mom. I guess. Yeah, we

854
01:03:19,119 --> 01:03:22,360
got interesting. Rob perked up when
he thought he saw a sit comment.

855
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,719
Right, yeah, you know,
he only gets going if oedipices involved.

856
01:03:27,119 --> 01:03:29,280
It's got to be the one of
the one of the absolute you know,

857
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:34,599
bedrock foundational myths we got to talk
about. So so all in all,

858
01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:42,679
this was an incredibly busy week and
it feels like, so before we wrap

859
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:46,519
up the Supreme Court, John,
what did they not decide? What do

860
01:03:46,559 --> 01:03:51,679
you think they're gonna kick down the
road? What? Yes, that's a

861
01:03:51,679 --> 01:03:57,079
great question. But they first they
they ducked a bunch of abortion issues.

862
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:02,840
They ducked the question of the FDA's
approval of the abortion pill. They ducked

863
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:10,480
this case out of Idaho. Where
can you read Medicare requirements that you give

864
01:04:10,519 --> 01:04:15,559
emergency treatment in a hospital if you
receive federal funds. Does that allow you

865
01:04:15,599 --> 01:04:19,960
to override estates ban on abortions?
So this is all the working out of

866
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,639
Dobbs. There's going to be still
a lot of Folow. Actually, Steve

867
01:04:23,679 --> 01:04:26,679
and I wrote a piece when Dobbs
came out, which was, this is

868
01:04:26,719 --> 01:04:30,039
not going to get the Court out
of abortion. The states will still be

869
01:04:30,039 --> 01:04:33,199
primary regulars. There's so many follow
on issues about Dobbs and abortion. So

870
01:04:33,239 --> 01:04:38,760
the Court avoided all those two,
so those are all still to come.

871
01:04:38,920 --> 01:04:42,880
There are also a whole bunch of
cases they didn't They decided not to grant

872
01:04:42,920 --> 01:04:48,440
this year involving the Harvard Affirmative Action
case because even though Harvard shouldn't be discriminating

873
01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:55,760
on race, all these high schools
are still still discriminating on the basis of

874
01:04:55,880 --> 01:04:59,280
race. So the Court decided not
to hear a bunch of those two.

875
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:02,599
And then the one thing is we'll
see what happens on Monday with the social

876
01:05:02,639 --> 01:05:09,920
media cases. But they also ducked
right the Biden administration or the government in

877
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:14,880
general using pressure to get social media
to conduct censorship. They kicked that one

878
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:17,559
down, and that might be the
most important for as amendment issue. As

879
01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:21,519
Peter mentioned, and Justice Leo mentioned
is how are we as a society going

880
01:05:21,599 --> 01:05:27,239
to regulate social media which are private
companies, but they have de facto become

881
01:05:27,280 --> 01:05:31,320
the public square for our society.
And that they avoided because right, they've

882
01:05:31,320 --> 01:05:33,920
got enough on their plate this year. But these are what that's what's going

883
01:05:33,960 --> 01:05:38,480
to fill the docket in the next. John may I asked, just explicitly,

884
01:05:39,719 --> 01:05:44,519
I think you the way I hear
you, you're imputing to the Chief

885
01:05:44,679 --> 01:05:49,800
Justice. I think mainly the Chief
Justice this kind of notion of we can

886
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:55,679
only handle so much. We as
justices can only handle so much. But

887
01:05:55,760 --> 01:06:00,239
as a political matter, the system
can only bear so many prizing decisions,

888
01:06:00,280 --> 01:06:05,840
so much only a certain degree of
overturning. And so he's using standing and

889
01:06:05,920 --> 01:06:13,280
other he's refusing to decide certain issues
on the substance just because he doesn't think

890
01:06:13,360 --> 01:06:17,199
the system can bear it. You've
served in a justice's chambers? Is that

891
01:06:17,400 --> 01:06:23,039
the way the justices think? Well, I served in the chambers of Justice

892
01:06:23,039 --> 01:06:27,559
Thomas, who is they at least
thinks that way on that court? Right,

893
01:06:27,679 --> 01:06:30,480
he was just you know, he's
happy to get the answer right,

894
01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:35,119
even if the Supreme Court building burns
down because of it. But this is

895
01:06:35,159 --> 01:06:40,199
not just Chief Justice Roberts idea.
This is the main theory of constitutional law

896
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:43,480
that's been taught in the law schools
for fifty years since Roberts was a student,

897
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:47,280
which is the Supreme Court has a
limited amount of political capital, and

898
01:06:47,320 --> 01:06:53,760
so it has to use it sparingly, especially because it's a anti democratic institution.

899
01:06:53,920 --> 01:06:57,599
Usually when the Court acts is telling
the democracy can't do something, so

900
01:06:57,679 --> 01:07:00,360
they have to do it sparingly and
only for the most important things. So

901
01:07:00,519 --> 01:07:04,840
conserve your capital, right, And
that's I think that's how Roberts looks at

902
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:09,320
the world, and you can see
it playing out right now these last times.

903
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:11,840
Is that correct or useful? What
do you make of that view?

904
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:18,000
I think it's stupid. I'm like
Donald Trump's saying, stupid. They get

905
01:07:18,000 --> 01:07:23,039
advocate. So look the I think
the Supreme Court's sole in the job is

906
01:07:23,079 --> 01:07:27,239
to get things right. If they
case or controversy reaches the court in the

907
01:07:27,280 --> 01:07:30,840
proper way, they're only right.
They That's what Hamilton said about them.

908
01:07:30,840 --> 01:07:33,719
They have neither the sword nor the
purse. All they have is judgment.

909
01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:38,440
All they have is getting it right
and persuading the rest of the country that

910
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:43,599
they have interpreted the constitution correctly.
Otherwise, why bother with them? Why

911
01:07:43,679 --> 01:07:46,000
have one unless that's all they do. So I don't like it when the

912
01:07:46,039 --> 01:07:50,960
court evades, you know, chimmys
and evades because they're worried about the political

913
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:57,559
consequences of their decisions and they want
to conserve their capital. That's not their

914
01:07:57,639 --> 01:08:00,840
job. I think elective politicians should
think that way all the time, and

915
01:08:00,880 --> 01:08:03,079
they do. I'm ticked off about
Murphy because Jabadi Chari promised me that if

916
01:08:03,119 --> 01:08:08,559
you want to take me to Disneyland, Wow, I would love to say

917
01:08:08,599 --> 01:08:12,400
Peter, you know, like like
yeah, I'm thinking like a progressive like

918
01:08:12,519 --> 01:08:15,880
Peter Robinson. The Hoover Institution and
COVID denier and a little teacup spin around.

919
01:08:17,560 --> 01:08:19,880
It feels like we could easily do
a gofund me for that. I

920
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:24,119
don't think. I think that's how
they came up with That's how they refined

921
01:08:24,199 --> 01:08:30,119
vaccines. It sounds like a huge
last question, John, just on the

922
01:08:30,399 --> 01:08:33,960
you know, the process. Are
they all gone now the spring Court?

923
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:36,680
Are they all like home or on
vacation? I mean, when these things

924
01:08:36,800 --> 01:08:42,680
drop, how far away are they
from that building? Well, this is

925
01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:45,399
one of the interesting things, as
you may know, usually the end by

926
01:08:45,439 --> 01:08:48,279
the end of June. So usually
today would have been the last day of

927
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:53,439
the decisions. But they actually have
no fixed calendar. It's up to them

928
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:57,920
to decide when they meet or not. So they extended the term into the

929
01:08:57,960 --> 01:09:01,479
first Monday in July because they still
got several more important decisions to issue.

930
01:09:01,800 --> 01:09:04,880
But the minute those things go out, you know, and they already know

931
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,000
the outcomes, and they're pretty much
finished the work because they need a certain

932
01:09:09,000 --> 01:09:12,560
amount of days for the printers actually, because they still have a printing shop

933
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,600
in that building, right, they
still need the printers to have days in

934
01:09:15,680 --> 01:09:18,439
time to you know, to set
the print, to set the opinions and

935
01:09:18,479 --> 01:09:23,680
print them. So but the minute
they're done announcing the decisions on Monday,

936
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:28,520
they all spread to the winds uh
and go all their various places. They

937
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:33,039
know. Justice Kennedy was famous for
going to Salzburg, Austria to commune with

938
01:09:33,159 --> 01:09:38,840
the eurouclatic elites and just and I
will tell you Justice Thomas, you know,

939
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,159
he's the opposite, you know to
the r Yeah, he likes to

940
01:09:42,159 --> 01:09:44,880
get in his RV and dry.
I mean I went with him once.

941
01:09:45,000 --> 01:09:47,399
I was like, yeah, I
don't want to see any more America.

942
01:09:47,479 --> 01:09:50,800
Thanks, but you know, you
know, he likes to drive around his

943
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:56,680
RV and be anonymous and stop at
r V parks and uh, you know,

944
01:09:56,760 --> 01:10:01,000
Walmart parking lots and you know,
commune with the regular Americans. There's

945
01:10:01,079 --> 01:10:03,680
your show, by the way,
there's your show. Oh, Rob,

946
01:10:03,800 --> 01:10:08,640
I've heard I've heard Justice Thomas tell
the story of being in a Walmart parking

947
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,239
lot and he's, you know,
in the shorts and somebody comes up to

948
01:10:11,319 --> 01:10:14,079
him says, oh, that's a
nice rig you got there. Who you

949
01:10:14,159 --> 01:10:24,039
drive for? And just Thomas points
at for Jin's, Miss Jinny. He's

950
01:10:24,079 --> 01:10:26,760
the only one who can tell that
story. I know. Yes, right,

951
01:10:28,079 --> 01:10:30,760
John, thank you for joining us
and trying to make sense of this.

952
01:10:31,199 --> 01:10:35,119
You you did a B minus job, which is pretty good. So

953
01:10:35,399 --> 01:10:40,760
you know, I mean with all
the Yale and the Yale Great inflation,

954
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,720
I know that's a failing great.
Yeah. No, I don't do that.

955
01:10:43,760 --> 01:10:47,000
I'm I'm old school. So uh
So, on Monday, we're gonna

956
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,319
get some new decisions, you think, Yeah, to be the termino,

957
01:10:50,399 --> 01:10:53,880
you will. We will know if
President Trump is immune. We will know

958
01:10:54,359 --> 01:10:59,760
whether Texas and Florida can force social
media not to censor people. Okay,

959
01:11:00,079 --> 01:11:04,079
all right, fingers crossed, Thank
you John, see you guys. Uh

960
01:11:04,479 --> 01:11:09,920
busy week. I know in which
way for you, mister Long. I

961
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:12,840
don't know just that that it'll be
interesting. I don't know. I just

962
01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:14,920
saying fingers crossed. Well, I
mean, I think I know which way

963
01:11:14,920 --> 01:11:15,960
to fingers can be crossed for all
those things. But I'm you know,

964
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,960
as you know, I'm a I'm
an originalist, so whatever the you know,

965
01:11:20,279 --> 01:11:23,960
I go with the I go with
the with the with the right wing,

966
01:11:24,079 --> 01:11:28,880
right blowing wind. When it comes
to the court speaking of the wind,

967
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,359
our wind is over. But before
I let you go, oh,

968
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,920
I do want to say this podcast
was made possible for ricochet dot com.

969
01:11:35,000 --> 01:11:39,439
We would love to have you join
Ricochet to keep this podcast going. Got

970
01:11:39,439 --> 01:11:42,439
a ricochet dot com check us out, Please join, and if you like

971
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,079
it, take a minute to leave
a five star review on Apple Podcasts.

972
01:11:45,079 --> 01:11:46,279
People always say this and everybody kind
of ignores it, but you know,

973
01:11:46,319 --> 01:11:49,960
it really does matter. So you're
not going to join Ricochet at least do

974
01:11:50,159 --> 01:11:55,640
that Your reviews allow new listeners to
discover us, and it tweaks the algorithm

975
01:11:55,680 --> 01:12:00,199
that keeps the trains running on time
Steve Peter had be fourth of July.

976
01:12:01,199 --> 01:12:06,640
Happy Fourth Rob, you're here,
Ricochet. Join the conversation.