1 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,440 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis your host, and 2 00:00:30,559 --> 00:00:33,759 we have a great one tonight. We have a we have a Canada show, 3 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,759 a truce with Canada. So we have Jordan Bonaparte is filling in for 4 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:43,640 ala Jandro Rojas, who actually became ill today and he wrote me just a 5 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:48,119 few minutes ago saying he can't make the show. So I have Jordan Bonaparte 6 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:53,240 from Canada. Our guest also him Ja Benaias, is also from Canada. 7 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:59,200 So we'll call this the Canadian Truce Show. And I want to thank everyone 8 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:04,040 that supports the show. We are over on KGr A Radio and we are 9 00:01:04,079 --> 00:01:10,319 also on YouTube, and we are live on our website which is podcast ufo 10 00:01:10,439 --> 00:01:14,200 dot com and anyone wants to go check that out. There are some blogs 11 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,159 over there. We're looking for a blog writer if anyone's interested in doing that, 12 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,439 and so check out podcast ufo dot com. Also there's a mailing list 13 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,719 there so you can see what our upcoming guest is. We do not abuse 14 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:30,439 the mailing list. We only send out once a week with the upcoming guests 15 00:01:30,079 --> 00:01:34,319 and also the times that the show is live. And speaking of that next 16 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:41,319 week, my guest should be if his card doesn't breakdown. Is Chris O'Brien. 17 00:01:41,799 --> 00:01:42,599 He's going to be heading out. It's going to stay at my guest 18 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:48,000 house. We're going to do a in studio show here next week, so 19 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,120 that should be fun. Chris is a lot of fun. And our guest 20 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:56,000 tonight is MJ Benaias. We're going to talk a little bit more about him 21 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,480 when we get ready. I want to thank everyone that supports a show. 22 00:01:57,879 --> 00:02:04,680 Anyone can do that and that information is on podcast ufo dot com and Jordan, 23 00:02:05,120 --> 00:02:07,480 welcome to the show. Thanks so much for filling in. Well, 24 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,199 when duty calls Martin, I'm here for you. But no, this like 25 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,560 the Canadian You call it a Canadian truce, but it's me and MJ against 26 00:02:13,599 --> 00:02:16,639 you, so there's more like a takeover. Oh no, I couldn't turn 27 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,840 that opportunity down. Yeah. Yeah, Well we'll talk about tariffs when m 28 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:24,759 JA gets on. But anyway, thanks so much for filling in. And 29 00:02:24,879 --> 00:02:28,800 I know this is last minute. Did you get a chance to check out 30 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:34,599 any UFO news to bring us today? Yeah? Well, really what I 31 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,960 see discussed online in terms of UFO news for the last few days, Maybe 32 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:43,400 this isn't a UFO story, and it's a little political, but there's been 33 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,719 a lot of talk among UFO circles about Trump's reason announcement to form the Space 34 00:02:47,759 --> 00:02:54,080 Force. I've seen, of course, conspiracy theories that his attention to the 35 00:02:54,759 --> 00:03:01,879 space to the Space Force may have undercurrent within the UFO culture. But I 36 00:03:01,879 --> 00:03:06,759 don't know. I would love to sit down and talk to him about about 37 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,240 his thoughts on this, but there's something going on up there that has him 38 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:14,719 concerned, it seems. Well. Yes, I saw when he was doing 39 00:03:14,719 --> 00:03:17,560 this a little bit about it that it's he wants it as a part of 40 00:03:17,599 --> 00:03:24,319 the armed forces actually, which is pretty interesting. And I know that nothing 41 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:30,280 can be done without congressional approval, but it still is interesting that he's he 42 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:36,639 actually has interest in space. So and uh, you know, a little 43 00:03:36,639 --> 00:03:38,240 while ago there was an announcement that we can go back to the Moon, 44 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:43,840 which I think is awesome. I think that would be great to get back 45 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:46,960 there and see what's happened in so many years ago. I think it was 46 00:03:47,039 --> 00:03:51,360 nineteen seventy two or seventy three, is the last time we're on the moon. 47 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,000 So yeah, his announcement was to make it the sixth Division of the 48 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,919 Department in National Defense. I think I love the idea of money and attention 49 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,479 and science being directed towards the sky, but I think I would rather it 50 00:04:04,599 --> 00:04:09,879 be spent in a different way than you know, defense and military. I 51 00:04:09,919 --> 00:04:15,960 wish it was more just towards exploration. But I don't know what his plans 52 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:20,639 are or what his concerns are regarding our safety in the sky. But I 53 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,600 guess any any money spent towards that, I shouldn't say that. I would 54 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,800 like to say any money spent towards that means is a good thing for those 55 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,519 of us who are interested in this. But that said, there's probably some 56 00:04:32,639 --> 00:04:38,800 nasty things you could do by building a space force or earning a space force. 57 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:42,720 Well, I know there's a there's like the Moon Treaty or something like 58 00:04:42,759 --> 00:04:46,920 that. I know I looked into it quite a while ago, so I'm 59 00:04:46,959 --> 00:04:50,560 not really up on it. But I know that the Moon is not supposed 60 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,560 to be used in any way for any type of military or any other for 61 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,680 anything other than exploration. I think the treaty, there's some type of treaty 62 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:05,399 that we signed um and I know it's against the stars. The star Wars 63 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:10,759 thing that came up when Reagan was in um, you know, against against 64 00:05:10,759 --> 00:05:13,600 all that. I mean, if we start like arming ourselves in the uh 65 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,439 in space, I think that's who knows what that will lead to. So 66 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:23,199 um, I think being prepared is good, but arming in space, I 67 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,439 don't know exactly if that's such a good idea. It's only going to breed 68 00:05:27,639 --> 00:05:32,240 more possible conflict in my opinion. Yeah, I just felt like in our 69 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,040 in our past, there was a bit of of course, there was the 70 00:05:35,079 --> 00:05:40,680 whole Space Wars program, but a lot of there was a lot of competition 71 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,040 among the different world's powers, um to go into space, more so as 72 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:47,399 in an exploratory fashion, you know, the race to the Moon and these 73 00:05:47,399 --> 00:05:51,680 sorts of things. I love that idea, but the race, the arms 74 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,399 race in the sky is a bit a bit darker of of of something to 75 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,000 think about, and it's maybe something that's better off left in science fiction works. 76 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:08,240 But that said, you know, safety is important being prepared for something 77 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,720 in the future. You know, there's a lot of different satellites and things 78 00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:17,519 going on up there that I'm sure there's there's a national security concern you know, 79 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:25,319 behind all this, but I'd be curious to hear a more casual explanation 80 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,800 of what the plans are. And maybe that's something that'll come out in the 81 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:32,000 future. But I prefer to think that Donald Trump caught wind of an oncoming 82 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:40,360 UFO invasion or maybe he saw some upcoming Tom DeLong video that Tom hasn't released 83 00:06:40,519 --> 00:06:45,439 us yet, and you know, and this got Trump's Trump's back up against 84 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,079 the wall. So we'll see. Maybe it'll be an exciting month. Yeah, 85 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,639 yeah, well, I know that's your sense of humor. A lot 86 00:06:51,639 --> 00:06:55,920 of people are going to take you serious on that, but I think it's 87 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,839 I think, you know, I mean, there probably should be protocols. 88 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,439 You know, so far, nothing has really, as far as we know, 89 00:07:03,519 --> 00:07:06,439 as attacked us in any type of way, at least in the last 90 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:11,600 you know, million years. But anyway, um, you know, I 91 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,560 don't think it's a bad idea to have some preparation to address something in case, 92 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:21,240 you know, we did have hostile incoming. It would be not a 93 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:26,199 bad idea to have something lined up. Just I don't know what if we 94 00:07:26,199 --> 00:07:29,120 could possibly even protect ourselves, you know, if they could get here, 95 00:07:29,439 --> 00:07:32,800 who knows what they could do, you know, yeah, exactly, it's 96 00:07:33,199 --> 00:07:39,959 it would be it's Tom to prepare for a threat as vague as you know, 97 00:07:40,199 --> 00:07:44,759 um extraterrestrial invasion, it would be it would be a little tricky that 98 00:07:44,879 --> 00:07:48,040 I have a hard time believing that that's what his concern is or the government's 99 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,600 concern is with, you know, but the space for us. But you 100 00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:55,600 know a lot of people if you if you run in some of the same 101 00:07:55,879 --> 00:08:00,399 circles online that I do, and you read kind of some of the thoughts 102 00:08:00,439 --> 00:08:05,439 people have about extra terrestrial life and it's interaction with our world, you know, 103 00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:09,680 there's probably a lot of people who think that we should be prepared and 104 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:15,079 should be arming to defend ourselves when the time inevitably comes. But I guess 105 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,800 I just haven't seen evidence of that yet, right. Do you have anything 106 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:20,519 else that you were able to look at before the show? You know, 107 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,560 there wasn't. Yeah, as I browsed through the news, and really I 108 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,959 haven't seen a lot here in Canada. What I'm thinking about is the upcoming 109 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:33,799 shag Harbor Ufo Festival. The fifty first anniversary is coming up. We had 110 00:08:33,799 --> 00:08:37,320 a great time there together last year. Martin. I don't imagine you plan 111 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:39,559 to go through that again. Well, I'll tell you one thing, I 112 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:46,799 would never ever do. And that's I would never ever ever drive again from 113 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:48,600 me, you know, you know, I don't blame you. That's a 114 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,559 that's a long drive and you had your little dog in the car. So 115 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,440 yeah, yeah, it's I can't remember. It seemed like it was sixteen 116 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,720 hundred miles or maybe maybe it wasn't that long, but it sure felt like 117 00:09:00,799 --> 00:09:03,799 it. No, it's not going to help, but you're going to that, 118 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,559 I assume because it's not too far away from you, right, No, 119 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,799 No, just a couple hours. I'll definitely be there, and they've 120 00:09:07,799 --> 00:09:13,320 got a great lineup this year. Chris Rotkowski, who's a friend of your 121 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,000 upcoming guest MJ's, is going to be speaking there and really looking forward to 122 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:22,240 that because he's, in my opinion, Canada's top researcher in the of the 123 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,879 UFO phenomenon. He publishes the Canadian UFO surve eh Year where he compiles the 124 00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:30,840 statistics of the year's reports, so I'm really excited to see him speak. 125 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,799 Chris Stiles, who is kind of the man behind the Shag Harbor UFO incident, 126 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:37,240 will be there again this year, so it's going to be a great 127 00:09:37,279 --> 00:09:41,240 time. But an idea that I had for you. Martin. You often 128 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:43,679 talk about having people staying in your guest house, and you know, and 129 00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:46,320 you talk about it a lot. I know, you have a beautiful property 130 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:50,759 there. You should plan a little festival. Rate on your rate and your 131 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,799 property, you had your guest house, she could probably have, you know, 132 00:09:52,960 --> 00:09:58,159 thirty fifty people up there star gazing. Well I do. I actually 133 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,840 do have like the place. Um part of the place was used for conferences 134 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:05,840 and there's a big ballroom. The only problem is the ceiling fell in, 135 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,279 so that's a little bit of a problem. Yeah that anyway, it is 136 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:13,559 fixed, but still it still needs a lot of work. But yeah, 137 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:16,759 it's It's something I thought of a look briefly, but I'm not sure if 138 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:20,879 I'll ever do something like that, but good thoughts. And you can even 139 00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:24,960 have a journalist version where you have different journalists live streaming, and you could 140 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:30,840 have it almost like a web conference where people your listeners from around the world 141 00:10:30,879 --> 00:10:35,480 could attend via the internet, and you can have podcasters, journalists, you 142 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:41,320 can have Alejandro there. Yeah, well you're you're you're the thinker, that's 143 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,200 for sure. So I really appreciate you coming on. I know it was 144 00:10:45,279 --> 00:10:48,440 such short notice, and I really do appreciate you coming on. And when 145 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:52,480 is that up in Canada? Is another two months? Right? Yeah? 146 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,240 I think it's the first week of August. I believe. I wish I 147 00:10:56,279 --> 00:11:01,000 knew the data, but it's yeah, yeah, yeah, it's I think 148 00:11:01,039 --> 00:11:03,360 they're having it at the beginning of August. It's all online. If you 149 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:09,360 just got Google Shag Harbor Ufo Festival, you'll find the schedule and whatnot. 150 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,480 So it's it's all there. All right, excellent, okay, Jordan, 151 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:16,120 Well thanks a lot. I really appreciate it, especially in the last minute. 152 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,240 I mean just a couple of minutes ago. It seems like I called 153 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:20,960 you. So anyway, thanks, all right, I'll talk to you pleasure, 154 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:22,759 all right, you take care. I have a great time with m 155 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,159 JA. He's awesome, all right, thank you. All right. So 156 00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:31,080 our guest m Ja Benias. He is a writer, a blogger and who 157 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:37,639 critically, philosophically examines the weird, the strange, and the anomalous. And 158 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:43,440 he's got a book he's putting together. We're gonna be talking about that coming 159 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,440 right up. So how are you doing. How are you doing, m 160 00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:52,879 J? I'm doing really well. How are you? Thank you and thanks 161 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:56,639 so much for thanks so much for joining us. No, it's my pleasure, 162 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:01,000 I get me honest. This is one of my favorite UFO podcasts, 163 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,159 and I was really surprised when you took the leap and joined kgra A well 164 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:07,799 done, Mozeltop, Well well, thank you. Yes. I one of 165 00:12:07,799 --> 00:12:11,039 the things I've always wanted to do. It's been important is to try to 166 00:12:11,519 --> 00:12:16,679 get as much of an audience as I can out there, and so I 167 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,759 had thought about it for quite a while. And I can't believe I'm actually 168 00:12:20,799 --> 00:12:24,440 simulcasting. I didn't know that could be done. But on YouTube it's a 169 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:30,399 great thing. It's not really that much more work, So it's all good. 170 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:33,639 So for the person, let's see, I think you were on about 171 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:37,080 ten or about ten months ago last time you were on, and so this 172 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:39,799 is your second visit. But for the person that is not aware of who 173 00:12:39,799 --> 00:12:43,759 you are, would you mind filling everyone in? Sure? Yeah, I'm 174 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:52,080 just a humble UFO writer, blogger, journalist. I write for Mysterious Universe. 175 00:12:52,159 --> 00:12:56,720 I have my own blog at tarabsca dot net. And my interest in 176 00:12:56,879 --> 00:13:01,000 UFOs has been sort of is very old, and I've loved it as a 177 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,600 kid, I since I was a kid rather but um, right now, 178 00:13:03,639 --> 00:13:07,440 the big project for me has been my first book. So that's sort of 179 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:11,919 been where I've been hiding for I think the last year or so. Oh 180 00:13:11,919 --> 00:13:16,720 and can you can you tell us you did tell me a little bit about 181 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,159 it, but go ahead and tell the listener if you would, what that's 182 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,320 about. Sure, my book is is really about the UFO subculture or the 183 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,200 UFO community. That's really what my interest is. I'm all, you know, 184 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,200 the UFOs are fascinating, but for me, I think the people who 185 00:13:31,279 --> 00:13:37,759 make up who make up the community that sort of engages with the UFO phenomenon, 186 00:13:37,039 --> 00:13:41,399 that for me is really sort of the more fascinating thing. Um So 187 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:43,799 my book is basically, uh, you know, exploring different aspects of the 188 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:48,120 subculture. Um. I have sort of various interviews and individuals who have spoken 189 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,639 to me and told me their stories, and basically I'm sort of taking on 190 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,759 the sort of trying to develop a bit of a framework for how the UFO 191 00:13:56,799 --> 00:14:03,279 subculture functions and and how it looks and what it is basically hopefully sort of 192 00:14:03,279 --> 00:14:07,919 original and the first of its kind. Well, I think, you know, 193 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,279 there's been a lot of discussion about, say, for instance, pop 194 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,679 culture and UFOs, and so I'm sure it kind of follows along that. 195 00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:22,519 But and people have talked about, you know, kind of almost like a 196 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,919 religious aspect to it and almost a cult following. And I do think you 197 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:33,759 do actually see that in certain circumstances, that there's you know, like a 198 00:14:33,759 --> 00:14:37,480 cult following. And I'm not you know, I'm not pointing any fingers or 199 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:41,840 anything. It's just, uh, it does seem like, um, there 200 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:45,360 is part of that going on out there. No, I agree. I 201 00:14:45,399 --> 00:14:50,120 think there's subcultures. It's incredibly complex, and there's a lot of nuance, 202 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,120 and I think really when we try to define, you know, who's a 203 00:14:54,159 --> 00:14:58,200 member of the subculture or who's a member of the community, it's very difficult 204 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:05,320 to draw those lines and distinctions, especially since there's really no um there's really 205 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,440 no Ivory Tower, or there's no sort of established um, you know, 206 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:16,279 uh university, or there's no sort of established I guess paradigm that that sort 207 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:18,600 of says this is what the UFO subculture is, and it's sort of it's 208 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:24,679 encapsulated and and that's it. Um that doesn't exist. A colleague of mine 209 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,360 Ryan Sprague, who's UM, a UFO podcaster and author. He sort of 210 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,639 said, if you ever, you know, if you want to become a 211 00:15:31,639 --> 00:15:33,440 youth, if you want to become a ufologist, I would you say, 212 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:37,799 spin around three times and touch your nose and you are one. Right. 213 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:41,440 So it's it's one of those it's one of those things where we're sort of 214 00:15:41,519 --> 00:15:46,919 trapped in this weird world where we can't really draw a distinction or a line 215 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:48,799 as to who's a member and who isn't. And this is sort of what 216 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:52,720 this book tries to address. I seem to get a lot of people that 217 00:15:52,799 --> 00:15:58,440 contact me that want to be on the show that UM I would consider UM 218 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,720 really far out on the fringe, and you know, and I don't. 219 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:06,960 I've had a few people on that are kind of out there and I kind 220 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:10,000 of let you know, the listening the audience take it up. But I've 221 00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:17,279 noticed an upsurge in people contacting me trying to get on the show that you 222 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:22,039 know, claim that they've been, you know, living among aliens or on 223 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,080 another planet, or they are you know, star children, or you know, 224 00:16:25,159 --> 00:16:27,120 things like that. It just seems like it seems to be growing. 225 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:34,039 UM. Are you noticing any trends for what's been happening or any upsurge or 226 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:38,000 anything. You know, I think this sort of always existed. I think 227 00:16:38,039 --> 00:16:42,679 what's become obviously more prevalent is, you know, just the rise of the 228 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,080 Internet has allowed anyone to sort of tell a story. And really parsing through 229 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:52,120 all of those individuals and trying to figure out, you know, where do 230 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,080 we draw the line of truth and where do we draw the line of just 231 00:16:56,159 --> 00:17:00,480 total nonsense is again really difficult, and a lot of it, like you 232 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,879 know, like you mentioned before, it sort of comes down to two sort 233 00:17:03,879 --> 00:17:06,559 of a more religious or theological sense. You know, a lot of it 234 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,400 boils down to believe, do you you know, as a podcaster m and 235 00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:15,200 a host believe in their story because fundamentally they won't have any evidence really to 236 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:18,160 present to you that suggests they are star children, or they've been living with 237 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,720 aliens on Mars or you know, with the reptilions or on the other side 238 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:25,200 of the moon. Ultimately, you don't they're not going to be able to 239 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,680 provide this apart from an anecdote. And and you know, this is sort 240 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:30,759 of good and bad, right, and this is maybe the beauty of the 241 00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:34,519 UFO subculture in that it's sort of total anarchy. It's it's it's a total 242 00:17:34,599 --> 00:17:41,680 chaotic mess and a total chaotic system. Um where um, you can't really 243 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:47,680 delineate. UM. I guess sort of truth from from fiction all the time. 244 00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:51,000 I think at you know, common sense often will apply and well like 245 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:55,640 judgment calls based upon common sense. Um, but man, you know you 246 00:17:55,680 --> 00:18:00,279 can't they can't prove it and you can't disprove it. And it's a it's 247 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,400 sort of strange and weird and beautiful all at the same time. I think, 248 00:18:03,599 --> 00:18:07,720 Yeah, I know you mentioned Ryan earlier, and I know his book 249 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:14,240 was kind of along those that the line of this, you know, basically 250 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:22,279 exploring the psychology of the whole phenomena. And you know, I always have 251 00:18:22,319 --> 00:18:26,759 to I have to keep myself in check, you know when I think about 252 00:18:26,759 --> 00:18:30,960 this whole topic as well, and um, you know, I try not 253 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,799 to go out too far on the limb, but I also try to be 254 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:44,319 open minded. But I I have not like followed anyone. And I that's 255 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:49,160 the part where I think when people there's a difference between a fan and someone 256 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:56,400 following someone. I believe and I have seen there are people that kind of 257 00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:04,200 have risen to the top of this field in certain ways, and some of 258 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,119 it being a little bit some of them being a little bit fringe, and 259 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:11,880 they have people defending them, which is very cult like in a way. 260 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:18,119 Indeed, I mean I have to be honest, you you know, as 261 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,039 a podcaster and again I've had this conversation with Ryan on his show, but 262 00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:23,519 as a podcaster, as someone who has to you know, generate an audience, 263 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,720 you know, often we have to be careful sort of what we say, 264 00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:33,720 right because ultimately, if you alienate, alienate, if you alienate someone 265 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:37,599 who has a big following, even though you know we can probably debate, 266 00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:42,240 you know, whether they're committing fraud or not, you take a big risk. 267 00:19:42,359 --> 00:19:47,000 And I have to be honest. I mean, you know, you're 268 00:19:47,039 --> 00:19:49,839 going to have a whole assortment of audience members today. I'm sure that I 269 00:19:49,839 --> 00:19:53,920 will probably say something and I will make someone upset because I said that their 270 00:19:55,000 --> 00:20:03,359 favorite UFO expert or guru or channeler or um who knows is full of it? 271 00:20:03,799 --> 00:20:06,799 Um. I don't want to, but sometimes it comes out UM so 272 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,039 um. Yes, you can't run that risk, right because ultimately the some 273 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:15,799 culture dictates whether you know, people listen to you or not. And um, 274 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,799 like you said, they have these cult like followings and they can muster 275 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:22,880 a lot of people to come after you and put you down and create fakebook 276 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,359 Facebook accounts and troll you and all that stuff. Yeah, which is quite 277 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:32,960 amazing. Yes, um um, anyone that follows my YouTube channel, we'll 278 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,960 see that there's Um. You know, I have a few trolls after me, 279 00:20:36,839 --> 00:20:41,720 have been, and I just I just don't don't let it bother me. 280 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:47,160 I just have them as long as they're not saying anything racial or like 281 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,960 slandering any of my guests. Um. I usually don't even bother to look 282 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:55,160 at too many of the comments. Unfortunately, I just feel like it's not 283 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:57,839 a place I really want to go. Um. No, and you do 284 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:03,119 not engage, right, don't engage? Yeah right right? So but anyway, 285 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:11,799 it um, everyone is welcome to their opinion. But sometimes it makes 286 00:21:11,839 --> 00:21:18,319 me wonder why why why someone gets so upset over something minor when they do 287 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,799 well. I think that's that's kind of the That's one thing the UFOs some 288 00:21:22,839 --> 00:21:26,440 culture lends itself very well to is opinion and speculation. And that's fine. 289 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,480 I think speculation is great. I think it's awesome that we can sit here 290 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,720 and have literally philosophical conversations about the nature of the universe or the nature of 291 00:21:33,759 --> 00:21:37,680 anomals, anomalous phenomena, or sort of esoteric concepts. I think that's that's 292 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,640 great. Um. I think when we start making truth claims, though, 293 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:45,039 and when we start saying, you know, the UFO phenomenon is x or 294 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:51,680 or this event over here is why without any evidence or without any concrete um 295 00:21:52,839 --> 00:21:55,720 data to back it up, I think we run into problems. And I 296 00:21:55,759 --> 00:21:57,920 think that this is where we sort of see this shift in the subculture. 297 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,400 Like you mentioned earlier, you know, are we noticing this uptick? I 298 00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:03,119 think you're getting a lot of individuals who are saying a lot of things and 299 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,960 making a lot of claims um that they are are suggesting are true. And 300 00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,440 unfortunately, people are buying into it. Right. You know, there's there's 301 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,319 snake oil sales salesman, and there's a lot of stupid people who are willing 302 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:18,160 to buy that snake oil as well. Um. And unfortunately you can have 303 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:22,039 someone, for example, say I have no evidence to support my claim, 304 00:22:22,079 --> 00:22:29,160 but I was a soldier on Mars and time traveled and um, you know, 305 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:33,680 all of this stuff and provide no data whatsoever invidence to back it up. 306 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,839 And people believe them, um, and will buy their stuff and support 307 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,079 them and donate to their cause and and you know, give them money up 308 00:22:41,079 --> 00:22:48,960 through Patreon or whatever and watch their show on Gaya and ultimately, UM produce 309 00:22:49,039 --> 00:22:55,640 a lot of noise whereupon the signal such as your show I think gets lost. 310 00:22:55,799 --> 00:23:00,200 Right, there's a lot of crap out there. And UM, that 311 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:06,279 was you that sent me the email last week, which email, I'm just 312 00:23:06,319 --> 00:23:08,359 saying all this stuff you just said as a joke. I'm just joking with 313 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,319 you. Um. So we're ready to go help. What's that? Ye? 314 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:17,920 Yeah? Um, so we are ready to go into a break. 315 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:22,599 So we are on with m J. Benias and we're going to go on 316 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:29,160 this break and we'll be back in about three minutes and U so, UM 317 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:36,000 we're on podcast UFO and KGr Radio and again my guest is MJ. Manias 318 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,440 will be right back. All right, gentlemen, we're clear three minutes and 319 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:42,279 forty seconds in this break. Martin three minutes and forty seven you were real 320 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:47,799 closet you Oh wow, okay, J, great commentary, man, that 321 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:53,880 was spot on it's always refreshing to hear good common sense on those airwaves here, 322 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,160 Thanks very much. I can't imagine it's easy. With running kjr A, 323 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:04,720 you probably get a lot of interesting characters. Well, he's gone, 324 00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,640 Well I'm here. I gotta be honest with you. There's times where I'm 325 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,880 ready to just start jamming pencils in my ears. Yeah. But the you 326 00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,799 know, the well, I'll just say it. You know, the Corey 327 00:24:18,839 --> 00:24:25,039 Goods, the David Wilcox, the you know the Besagio that none of them 328 00:24:25,279 --> 00:24:27,880 are ever gonna find a place here. No, but there are some of 329 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:32,640 their like some of their fans might, right, And that's the inherent robin 330 00:24:32,799 --> 00:24:34,160 Yeah. Yeah, yeah, like you still have a business to run. 331 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,039 At the end of the day, You still a business to run, right. 332 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,079 Yeah, it's hard. It's hard to keep everybody happy. It's just 333 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:48,839 do it, that's true. Yeah. Last week we had we had doctor 334 00:24:48,839 --> 00:24:55,880 Bob gross On who had his theory on on Kexburg and he had a theory 335 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,599 also on Roswell and boy have I got a lot of email about that. 336 00:25:02,279 --> 00:25:06,319 So what was this theory? Basically, his theory is that he thought it 337 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:11,480 was now there was some type of balloon um of that was coated with aluminum 338 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:17,559 and like a precursor to miler pet I can't I remember the long name of 339 00:25:17,599 --> 00:25:22,359 it. So that he was basically thinking that it was that that actually crashed, 340 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,559 and actually was pretty convincing. But since that time, there's been a 341 00:25:26,599 --> 00:25:30,519 couple of blogs have come out with you know, punching holes and saying that 342 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:37,000 he used you know, selective evidence for that. Well it's like this the 343 00:25:38,759 --> 00:25:44,920 Nunited States Air Force, I think it was a ninety ninety six, was 344 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:51,720 it. Yeah, something out with this big, thick explanation that had nothing 345 00:25:51,759 --> 00:25:55,640 to do with it, right, I mean, you know, developing my 346 00:25:55,759 --> 00:25:59,640 large technology back then might have been a really big thing, which I don't 347 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,440 think it was so much. But you know, why wouldn't they just come 348 00:26:04,519 --> 00:26:08,720 clean with that today when the ship's everywhere? It just didn't make any sense. 349 00:26:10,599 --> 00:26:12,960 I'm back here chewing a hole through my seat, you know what I 350 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,160 mean. I just want to open this mic up and say, look, 351 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:19,000 man, but I can't do it. You know, I gotta sit back 352 00:26:19,039 --> 00:26:22,480 and just let these guys do their thing. But well, everyone's hearing you 353 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,640 on YouTube. Now just let you annoy in my podcast. Well, good 354 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:32,880 because keep the conversation clean, safe for work. Yeah, oh okay, 355 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,880 okay, thank you for that, but um, you know, I just 356 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,920 it really it makes me wonder, you know, why the US Air Force 357 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,000 would go through so much trouble to still cover up something that's everywhere. Now 358 00:26:44,039 --> 00:26:47,960 it's not top secret, it's not something that needs to be held back, 359 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:52,000 or they just don't care, like they're not talking about it because like literally 360 00:26:52,079 --> 00:26:56,440 they just don't care about it, you know, Like does the if if 361 00:26:56,559 --> 00:27:00,519 Roswell was Okay, see, I don't want to upset anyone, but just 362 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:04,960 for the sake of argument, let's say Roswell is nothing more than my lar 363 00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:10,240 balloon technology that's beyond you know what it was in ninety forty seven. I 364 00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,480 think we have only twenty seconds left, right, Okay, Well, they're 365 00:27:12,519 --> 00:27:15,400 not going to come in and they're not gonna be like, hey, well 366 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,440 you know it is actually what it was, and they're gonna try and disprove 367 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:18,680 because they know that one's going to happen at the end of the day. 368 00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:22,799 If they came out and said it's my arts does advanced technology you had in 369 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:25,920 forty seven, do you think the uful community would suddenly be like, oh, 370 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,079 yeah, no, they're right, you're right, that's right. Fine, 371 00:27:27,119 --> 00:27:30,680 we accept this answer as the truth. Agreed, But that was an 372 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:36,000 awful big report that came out to cover up plastic right, true, right, 373 00:27:36,039 --> 00:27:38,000 I'll give you that. So we're going back. We're thirty nine seconds 374 00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:42,039 away. Thirty nine seconds, okay, thirty nine seconds, got it? 375 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,880 Okay, Yeah, Well it was an interesting theory, and you know, 376 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,160 it's another theory and that's I think that's the name of one of the blogs 377 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:53,440 another theory out there. Oh hey, look Ryan's in the chat room. 378 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:59,720 Hey, Ryan, Ryan Sprague. I love him rather Ryan. Yep. 379 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,160 Right, so he's uh, we'll have to say hi to him, and 380 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:07,519 we can take calls. Hopefully the calls will be working. We can take 381 00:28:07,559 --> 00:28:11,039 them at the top of the hour. At the top of the hour. 382 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:17,400 So before the break, we were you were talking about different aspects of you 383 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:22,799 know, the we were talking about the different cult like um aspects of this. 384 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:27,799 Not to really name any names up, I have actually named a name 385 00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:36,440 on this show before, Stephen. Great that that has caused me a lot 386 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:42,359 of trouble. So uh, but you know, there there are I think 387 00:28:44,079 --> 00:28:47,440 on any aspect, like if you go into different parts of paranormal I'm sure 388 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:52,160 it's the same thing. You know, what is yours? Your aspect of 389 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,400 this book only focusing on the UFO topic, or is it other aspects as 390 00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,079 well? Yeah, you know, it primarily focuses on the UFO community. 391 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:07,240 The problem is there's so much I guess sort of bleed through in regards to 392 00:29:07,279 --> 00:29:11,160 the paranormal community in general, or some sort of other esoteric concepts that will 393 00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,599 often blend into the UFO community. So I've been really struggling to try and 394 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:19,519 sort of delineate it. But at the end of the day, I just 395 00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:22,799 don't know if you can all the time, and I think that that trying 396 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,519 to is making a lot of work for yourself, or you have to leave 397 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:33,359 certain ideologies and paradigms out of the UFO debate that you just don't want to 398 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:34,559 do. If you're doing sort of what I'm doing, which is just a 399 00:29:34,599 --> 00:29:40,920 sort of a framework for the subculture, I can't say, you know, 400 00:29:41,079 --> 00:29:45,519 people who experience poltergeist activity alongside UFO sightings. Um, you know, I 401 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:49,720 can't keep I can't keep the UFO sighting, but get rid of the polter 402 00:29:49,799 --> 00:29:55,119 geist activity, right, because that's the that's their story. So I have 403 00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:59,160 to be sort of kind of open to the possibility that that the UFO phenomenon 404 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:06,440 is more than sort of an extraterrestrial sort of physical nuts and bolts, I 405 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:11,839 guess idea, but it may involve aspects of the mystical or sort of interdimensional 406 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,319 or psychosocial or whatever. So I try to encapsulate sort of all of it. 407 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:21,400 But the book isn't just the book isn't really trying to map the subculture. 408 00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:23,759 I think that that's that's that's a task that's impossible. I mean, 409 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:29,000 you can't really, I can't really do any subculture. You can't really sort 410 00:30:29,039 --> 00:30:33,559 of say this is it, because ultimately those subcultures change quite quickly over time 411 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:40,039 and in a short amount of time. So the book is more about trying 412 00:30:40,039 --> 00:30:44,400 to figure out how the subculture functions. And I think one way to look 413 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:45,119 at it, in the way I try to look at it in my book, 414 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,559 is that sort of people within the UFO subculture have sort of their feet 415 00:30:48,599 --> 00:30:53,240 in two worlds. On the one hand, we go about our daily lives. 416 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:56,920 We buy Starbucks, we go to work, we raise our kids, 417 00:30:56,079 --> 00:31:00,000 we cut our grass, and we sort of function like that we shop at 418 00:31:00,039 --> 00:31:03,880 Walmart. UM. And then UM, on the other side, we have 419 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:08,720 this strange not fascination, but we have this this strange connection. Let's say 420 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,200 to this other world, this other world that that we're told does not exist, 421 00:31:12,359 --> 00:31:17,799 right. Um. We're told that that UFOs are our delusion, UFOs 422 00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:22,640 are our our hoaxes. UM, that UFOs are our total nonsense. UM. 423 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,799 But for some reason, as a community, we don't necessarily listen to 424 00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:30,160 those messages. UM. And we we tend to I don't need the term 425 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,920 believe, but we tend to UM try to engage with that phenomenon in some 426 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,160 way. We talk about it, we debate over it, we speculate, 427 00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,160 UM. And sometimes we you know, lecture at UFO conferences, and we 428 00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:47,160 develop cult like environments UM, like your friend doctor Greer. So UM, 429 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:51,720 we sort of exist in these UM duel in this dualistic kind of world as 430 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,519 a community. UM. And and the book tries to figure out, how 431 00:31:55,559 --> 00:31:57,720 how is that possible? How can we sort of go about our daily lives. 432 00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,200 Yeah, at the same time believe in aliens or believe in interdimensional beings 433 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:09,559 and believe in flying saucers or black triangles or you know, wolves that can 434 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:15,759 be shot at point blank range and not die from nap and Kelleher's book The 435 00:32:15,759 --> 00:32:19,079 Skinwalker, right, like these sort of odd paranormal phenomena that that show up 436 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,240 that don't make sense, Yet we have no problem going to buy, you 437 00:32:22,279 --> 00:32:25,599 know, grass seeds so we can keep our lawns looking nice and pretty, 438 00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:32,759 right, And I think that this is really the weirdness of the subculture. 439 00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:37,400 It's not the people who believe in extraterrestrials that are weird at all. It's 440 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:42,920 the fact that we somehow continue to function in our lives with this I guess 441 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,839 awareness or this idea that we are maybe not alone at least in some way 442 00:32:47,039 --> 00:32:52,759 in the cosmos or or interdimensionally, or or mystically or spiritually or whatever. 443 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:59,640 So, do you find that there is there a difference between a person that 444 00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:05,359 has interest in this phenomena just out of plain interest, perhaps it's started by 445 00:33:05,359 --> 00:33:07,920 science fiction, or someone they know may have had a sighting or something like 446 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:13,680 that. Is there a difference between that person and the person like myself that 447 00:33:13,759 --> 00:33:19,160 actually had an unexplained sighting. Right, And again, this is another sort 448 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:22,720 of inherent problem, right, which I sort of aligned them A book is 449 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:29,680 what what is the UFO community. Can we say someone who just you know, 450 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:35,599 watches Ancient Aliens is not a member versus someone who's had an experience is 451 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,680 a member? Because the problem is, I would say there's a lot of 452 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:43,160 experiencers out there who would say they're not members at all. They've experienced something 453 00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,160 strange, something animalists, they saw UFO, maybe they had a contact or 454 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,960 abduction experience, but they have chosen to never engage with the discourse. They've 455 00:33:50,039 --> 00:33:52,440 chosen never to engage in the UFO debate, and they've just walked away from 456 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:58,519 it. Yes, are they members or are they not members? So what 457 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,160 is really the important aspect here versus someone who just watches Ancient Aliens and posts 458 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:07,239 on Facebook and has forum discussions and engages with that discourse, even though they're 459 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:14,559 sort of source materials typically flawed. What would they then maybe be part of 460 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:17,239 that discourse more so, you know, like we sort of dance around these 461 00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:22,639 issues, and I think that it's difficult to delineate who is in and who 462 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:25,960 is not in. That is really the problem. Well, we have some 463 00:34:27,039 --> 00:34:29,519 questions coming in from the chat, and I'll get to one of them, 464 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:30,840 But first of all, I just wanted to tell you quickly, and I 465 00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:35,679 have told this story before on this show, but it still kind of blows 466 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,920 my mind. I'm I'm friends with someone that's on the Antiques road Show. 467 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:44,400 So he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't want to talk about 468 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:49,039 his experience book. When he was in college at Amherst, he was in 469 00:34:49,079 --> 00:34:52,559 that there's some towers the dorms are in like these towers, and he was 470 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:57,000 like on the twenty third floor something with a bunch of his buddies. He 471 00:34:57,039 --> 00:35:00,360 said, yes, we're drinking, but it wasn't an hallucination. Wasn't that 472 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,119 drunk. He just had a little bit of a buzz on and he said 473 00:35:02,199 --> 00:35:06,159 this, all of a sudden, they noticed out this window, the scene 474 00:35:06,159 --> 00:35:09,119 comes swooping in and they looked at it and it was shaped like a box, 475 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,000 like a perfect box. You know, it wasn't it wasn't you know. 476 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,199 It was like a square, almost like a cube, but rectangular, 477 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:21,559 and it had lights flashing all around it. And then he said they were 478 00:35:21,599 --> 00:35:24,159 all just staring at it, and then it shot up in the sky and 479 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:30,159 he said, just then a fighter jet went toward it, but before it 480 00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,639 could get anywhere near it the thing burst into five lights, and he said 481 00:35:32,679 --> 00:35:37,639 the lights seemed to be reacting back and forth to each other. And then 482 00:35:37,519 --> 00:35:39,880 by the time the jet got close to it, he said, the lights 483 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,280 just shot off. He said, so fast you couldn't hardly see it. 484 00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,960 So I said, my goodness, I said, how do you feel about 485 00:35:49,079 --> 00:35:51,800 that? I mean, that's amazing to change your life, he said, 486 00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,440 I could give a you know what, he says, I don't care. 487 00:35:54,480 --> 00:36:00,079 I could care less. And so there are those people, and so I 488 00:36:00,079 --> 00:36:04,760 think that's kind of interesting that you're kind of including those people as well, 489 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:07,719 whether the subculture or where do they fit? And that's the problem, right, 490 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:13,199 like we don't know where they fit. I think fundamentally, I would 491 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:15,320 have to say that, you know, you need to try it because you 492 00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,920 need to delineate somewhere, right, You need to have a line somewhere, 493 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,719 but it's tough to find all the time. I think that if if people 494 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:27,639 communicate about it, right, if there is some sort of discourse or debate 495 00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,280 and they're they're engaging with that, then I think that they're part of the 496 00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:35,840 community at least in some way. If they are not engaging at all, 497 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,599 if they've had a strange experience like your friend, and they've chosen to just 498 00:36:37,639 --> 00:36:40,760 say forget it, I don't care, and they never talk about it again, 499 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,280 They never even think about it, you know. Can we say that 500 00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:50,119 they're part of the community. Can we say that they're part of the subculture. 501 00:36:50,159 --> 00:36:52,400 I think they're part of a community for sure, a community that's had 502 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,880 an experience, or a community that or a subculture that has had an almost 503 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:00,480 experience. But I wouldn't say they're really part of the conversation. Um. 504 00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:04,920 And I think the conversation is really what the UFO subculture is. It's it's 505 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,920 the back and forth. It's the communication over the UFO phenomenon that is really 506 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,880 what shapes the phenomenon in a way. Right, Um, we create our 507 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:19,360 theories and our hypotheses, and that is really what kind of breeds life into 508 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,719 it because we can talk about it. Um. If we didn't do any 509 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:25,840 of that, Um, we would have a UFO sub culture at all. 510 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:31,920 Right, it's all about the communication. Interesting, and um, how does 511 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:37,559 this fit into like to say, when people the people that go to conferences 512 00:37:37,679 --> 00:37:43,119 or they you know, I mean, is that does that is that all 513 00:37:43,119 --> 00:37:45,679 part of this too? Like someone puts out some money to actually travel and 514 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:51,480 go and be there at these for sure. I think I think I think 515 00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,519 that's a whole separate I think that's a sort of another as a sub as 516 00:37:53,519 --> 00:37:58,599 a sub subculture. I think the the UFO conference culture is a sort of 517 00:37:58,679 --> 00:38:00,880 a separate beast. It's part of the same thing. Like, don't get 518 00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:05,519 me wrong, like it is part of the UFO subculture, but it's definitely 519 00:38:05,559 --> 00:38:09,360 its own kind of little version of it. I think because there's a lot 520 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:15,760 of things that happened at conferences and there's a lot of um there. I 521 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:21,320 would say the communication of the UFO topic at a conference is like in hyperdrive 522 00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,559 there, right, Like it's it's it's not just um, you know, 523 00:38:23,679 --> 00:38:27,079 over the computer, or it's not just over texting, or it's not just 524 00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:30,880 over messenger, or it's not just over the phone. But you're actually interacting 525 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,800 with individuals who have had an almost experience. So you're interacting with individuals who 526 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:39,280 are engaged in investigation or or constant discourse. So um, yeah, it's 527 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,239 a total separate thing. I gotta asked, if I was going to write 528 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:45,199 a second book, I would go to every UFO conference I could and just 529 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:49,360 write about that, Like, I think that would be like my next project 530 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,800 would be to take the UFO subculture and like, let's compartmentalize even more. 531 00:38:52,199 --> 00:38:54,239 And now I want to do a book on conference culture because I think it 532 00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:59,679 would be unbelievable and it would be crazy and wild. I mean there's the 533 00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:01,760 people those conferences, some of them like they dressed up and they sell crystals 534 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:07,599 and they yeah, I love it. Yeah, And that's that's one of 535 00:39:07,599 --> 00:39:10,840 the things I mentioned last week about how Roswell has become, you know, 536 00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:15,840 commercialized in a way, you know. I mean it's it's such a you 537 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,239 know, and not only the once a year parade coming up in what a 538 00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:23,239 couple of weeks, but not only that, but you know, the town 539 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:28,920 itself, you know, restaurants being named after you know, certain things and 540 00:39:29,599 --> 00:39:32,800 you know, uh, spaceships on on signs and stuff like that, and 541 00:39:34,039 --> 00:39:37,239 a lot of people are really really into it. Oh. I mean, 542 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:42,159 Roswell's the town that it has a vested interest now in maintaining the fact that 543 00:39:42,199 --> 00:39:46,519 something strange happened there, right, Like they cannot if even if there's an 544 00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:50,400 explanation that comes out and it's proven, though, they would have to fight 545 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,280 against it. Right, because ultimately economically that the UFO crash at Roswell is 546 00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:00,199 Roswell. Basically, yeah, yeah, last week's guests would not uh, 547 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,599 it would not fare well in that town walking down the street, I wouldn't 548 00:40:04,599 --> 00:40:08,760 go yeah. Um. So from the chat room, UM, what are 549 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:15,239 your thoughts on the co creation hypothesis has presented by Greg Bishop? And how 550 00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:22,760 do you feel about the hypothesis that the hypothesis stand up for eh and others 551 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,320 Eh. I think we talked about this. This was this was the top 552 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,920 of our last talk. I think when that when I was on last time 553 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,920 what we talked about co creation a bit. Um. Um. Yeah, 554 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:37,840 So if if you're a I mean, if you're asking me whether I believe 555 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,079 co creation is the answer, I think it's I think it's a pretty viable 556 00:40:40,119 --> 00:40:44,400 theory or a hypothesis. Um, I don't know if it's an answer. 557 00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:50,119 Um. My interest in UFOs is sort of again more around people and the 558 00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:53,639 culture and the community. UM. But I've written sort of several articles about 559 00:40:53,719 --> 00:41:00,360 Greg Bishop's co creation hypothesis as I think a good sort of good middle ground 560 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:04,119 GAS. I think the problem with you know, if you sort of zoom 561 00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,840 out on on the UFOE narrative and look at it from a bird's eye view. 562 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:13,000 Unfortunately, the extras the extraterrestrial hypothesis sort of as a nuts and bolts 563 00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:16,559 phenomena of you know, a bunch of meat bodies jumping into a ship and 564 00:41:16,639 --> 00:41:21,079 flying here and doing stuff. Um. I don't think it generally fits all 565 00:41:21,119 --> 00:41:24,360 the time with the entire narrative. Um. Typically, if you want to 566 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:28,719 go with ETH, you have to start leaving certain aspects out, or you 567 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,199 have to start calling certain people sort of delusional or fakes or hoaxers, or 568 00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:39,800 or they're just too woo woom because ultimately their mythology or their their ideology doesn't 569 00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:45,199 fit into the et H paradigm. However, you know, on the flip 570 00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:49,840 side of that, there are aspects of the UFO phenomenon that are very material 571 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,599 and physical. Right, they tend to show up on radar every once in 572 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:54,679 a while, they show up on gun camera footage. Now they leave depression 573 00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:58,079 of marks, at least they used to. I haven't had actually good UFO 574 00:41:58,199 --> 00:42:00,119 landing case in a while, you know, like the last my UFO landed 575 00:42:00,199 --> 00:42:04,719 in a field with like legs and stood anyway. Yeah, that's true, 576 00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:07,760 right, you know, like when yeah, um, so you at times 577 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:13,400 have physical evidence or trace evidence. I guess you call it left behind um 578 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,920 in sort of the uf phone narrative. So I think co creation tries to 579 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:22,639 to sort of find itself nicely in the middle between something that's more mystical and 580 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:29,760 not immaterial or or psychosocial UM and something that's more nuts in bolts physical, 581 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:30,840 And I think it tries to place itself in the middle, which is why 582 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:36,800 I kind of like it um. But again, one I guess issue that 583 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,320 I've since thought about in regards to co creation is it is it comes off 584 00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:44,800 sometimes as a bit of a uh, sort of like a theory of everything, 585 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:50,079 sort of hawking asque theory of everything solution, And maybe the UFO phenomenon 586 00:42:50,199 --> 00:42:53,159 is not that, you know, maybe the UFO phenomenon is not one thing 587 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:58,760 but rather a smorgs board of of a whole bunch of things. Maybe we 588 00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:05,840 are dealing with a few um sort of nuts and bolts extra trustrial ideas. 589 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:12,440 Maybe we're dealing with some mystical or or sort of interdimensional hypotheses, and maybe 590 00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:15,360 we're dealing with some psychosocial and maybe they're sort of coalescing or working together or 591 00:43:15,639 --> 00:43:20,599 or just totally separate and we're just experiencing it. So I think we also 592 00:43:20,639 --> 00:43:24,039 need to sort of think about whether we spit into the camp of there is 593 00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:29,599 one thing and that is the cause of all ufolk experience, or are we 594 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:35,199 dealing with a whole smattering of things that are just sort of coincidentally all occurring 595 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,920 simultaneously for us. But yeah, I did co creation, I do interesting. 596 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:47,519 Yeah, I think I don't think there is if there's an answer out 597 00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:52,559 there to what you know, people are seeing and witnessing. Um, I 598 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:58,039 don't think it's I don't think it's one thing. It just seems like it's 599 00:43:58,079 --> 00:44:02,679 there's too many variables and what people are experiencing m to be just one thing. 600 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:07,920 And so we are gonna we have about less than ten minutes to the 601 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:12,679 break, and then after that we're going to take calls. Um, so 602 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:17,679 what about the the abductee or experiencers they're mostly called. Now, what about 603 00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:22,360 that aspect of that? Your is your book, and to touch into any 604 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,119 part of that a bit for sure? You know. I tried to tie 605 00:44:27,159 --> 00:44:31,639 in sort of as many different sort of ideas from the UFO narrative as I 606 00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:40,280 could. Um, so I think the I think UFO experiencers or contact he's 607 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:45,039 abductees. I think they're sort of the most interesting. Um. I think 608 00:44:45,159 --> 00:44:51,159 that really when we when we think about, um, those people who have 609 00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,639 their sort of their foot now in two worlds, right, Um, someone 610 00:44:53,679 --> 00:44:59,400 who has had a contact experience or an abduction experience really now dwells in this 611 00:44:59,519 --> 00:45:02,760 weird in between zone. This this this sort of no man's land, if 612 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:08,039 you will, this gap between their daily lives and this life that has been 613 00:45:08,079 --> 00:45:15,239 totally um I guess, interrupted or disconnected from sort of the normal daily world. 614 00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:19,480 I mean, I can't imagine going about my business and then all of 615 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:22,400 a sudden being abducted or having this amazing contact experience. UM. I can't 616 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:28,760 imagine how it would affect me. Um, it would right, UM, 617 00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,119 So how do you then pick yourself back up? How do you then, 618 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,599 you know, wake up the next morning and go, well, I'm gonna 619 00:45:34,679 --> 00:45:37,039 get my you know, VENTI latte um from Starbucks. I mean, you 620 00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:43,679 just you probably can't write you you you you sort of you. You you've 621 00:45:43,679 --> 00:45:47,519 been the victim of something or or if it's a contact experience, you've been 622 00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:52,519 sort of enlightened in some way to the point where you sort of don't recognize 623 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:55,000 the normal world as being real anymore. UM. And and I think that 624 00:45:55,000 --> 00:46:00,639 this is one thing that UFU subculture often sort of engages in, is is 625 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:06,920 UM realizing that sort of the daily reality you and I live in is not 626 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:12,400 necessarily sort of true or objective or um. I guess it could be objective, 627 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,079 but it's not really sort of honest in a sense if aliens are real, 628 00:46:16,199 --> 00:46:21,880 or if interdimensional beings are real, or if um, mystical you know, 629 00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,559 non human entities are are are roaming around in our you know, universal 630 00:46:25,599 --> 00:46:31,559 consciousness. UM. You know, paying your taxes or or getting a mortgage 631 00:46:31,599 --> 00:46:37,920 seems ridiculous, um, when you know we're potentially one species in a chorus 632 00:46:38,039 --> 00:46:45,559 of others, UM that are intelligent And UM, how do we continue to 633 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:49,360 live our lives? And when it comes to abduction and contact, I think 634 00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:52,320 this is sort of to the nth degree, right, this is really the 635 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:57,639 big challenge. UM. Can you go back to your old life and does 636 00:46:57,679 --> 00:47:00,760 your old life seem normal? Or are you sort of like Dorothy um after 637 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:07,360 the tornado? Right You've gone to OZ and now you're back and life just 638 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,559 seems sort of colorless, right, it doesn't seem real anymore. There's something 639 00:47:09,599 --> 00:47:15,239 wrong with it. And this is I think fundamentally where abduction contact e um 640 00:47:15,840 --> 00:47:22,000 sort of individual experience or sort of fit um. They're they're they're Dorothy, 641 00:47:22,119 --> 00:47:25,760 and they've come back, and you know, they're trying to figure out where 642 00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:30,679 the hell of a color went. I've I've said a number of times in 643 00:47:30,679 --> 00:47:36,119 the show like if um, you know, the abduction experience was happening to 644 00:47:36,199 --> 00:47:39,159 me, I couldn't function. I just don't know how I could possibly, 645 00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:45,519 you know, go on with my life and and you know, by the 646 00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:47,760 way, someone's saying hi from Starbucks on the chat room, But I mean, 647 00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:52,719 how could you go to like Starbucks and just like live the normal life 648 00:47:52,719 --> 00:47:54,280 after something like that. I mean, I don't get it. If these 649 00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:59,400 people are truly being abducted, kudos to them for trying to fit in, 650 00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:04,360 as I certainly would have a hard time doing that myself, right. And 651 00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,280 I'm not going to sit here and say every single abduction case or every single 652 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:09,239 contact case is legitimate, because we can't say that. I think that there's 653 00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:13,280 going to be plenty of frauds and plenty of posers out there. You can't. 654 00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,079 You know, you can't believe everybody, I suppose, but I would 655 00:48:15,119 --> 00:48:21,960 say that there's probably a good junk of them that I would say are legitimate 656 00:48:22,039 --> 00:48:24,480 in some way. You know, again, I can't make a claim. 657 00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:28,599 I can't make a truth claim as to the source of the viewfo phenomenon. 658 00:48:28,679 --> 00:48:30,880 So if a person was abducted, or if a person has a contact experience, 659 00:48:31,159 --> 00:48:34,320 I don't know what happened to them. You know, I'm not even 660 00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,519 sure if they know what happened to them. But whatever did happen to them, 661 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,960 it's affected them. So to them it's as real as possible because ultimately 662 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,960 they're the ones who have to sort of live their lives with this new understanding 663 00:48:49,039 --> 00:48:52,760 or this sort of new interpretation of the world. And the strange thing is 664 00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:55,199 it happens. You know, people are claiming this all over the world, 665 00:48:55,360 --> 00:49:00,199 and you know, I mean, who do they confide in, you know, 666 00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:01,719 if they don't have anyone to talk to, I mean, it must 667 00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:08,039 be um, you know, possibly it's uh, it could be uh you 668 00:49:08,079 --> 00:49:10,880 know, some of them could be sleep paralysis. I don't want to step 669 00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,880 on any toes out there for you know, because I do know that uh. 670 00:49:15,599 --> 00:49:21,199 Um you know. I mean people have they like see images of of 671 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,119 like beings, So that's not uncommon in sleep paralysis. You know. Sure, 672 00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:29,000 but I don't think you can step on any toes. I mean, 673 00:49:29,079 --> 00:49:32,119 ultimately, you know, we have to still remain critical. Um, it's 674 00:49:32,119 --> 00:49:37,000 okay to be to to ask people, you know, are you sure it's 675 00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,280 on sleep prolysis, because ultimately, I be honest if I I think, 676 00:49:38,599 --> 00:49:43,199 like I've actually had this conversation with my wife, like if I woke up 677 00:49:43,199 --> 00:49:46,920 one morning convinced I was abducted, Um really wow, no no, no, 678 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,480 no, no, no, no no sorry, no, no, 679 00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,360 no, no, what I'm saying if I did, Like, if I 680 00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:55,039 had that experience, I thought for sure you said I did. No, 681 00:49:55,039 --> 00:49:58,400 no, no, if I woke up one morning you heard it here, 682 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:05,440 folks. Yeah that Um, if if I woke up one morning thinking that 683 00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:09,639 I was abducted, I would hope that I would have sort of the wherewithal 684 00:50:10,119 --> 00:50:13,400 to to sort of sit there and say, you know, maybe I should 685 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,440 go see us like a psychiatrist first. You know, maybe I wasn't actually 686 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,840 abducted, maybe I had some sort of fugue state, or maybe sleep paralysis, 687 00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,199 or maybe there's something sort of, Um, maybe there's sort of an 688 00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:31,960 error in my functioning, right, Because ultimately, that I think is a 689 00:50:32,039 --> 00:50:40,440 lot better than the reality that there's a species roaming around that has um that 690 00:50:40,559 --> 00:50:46,280 just kidnaps people randomly for for sort of various reasons, and does so without 691 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:52,719 any ethical or moral issue, and just simply treats us as test subjects without 692 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:57,239 our consent. I think that is much more frightening than me just you know, 693 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,440 losing my mind a little bit. So I think it's okay be critical. 694 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:01,400 I think we have to be critical. I think we can't sit here 695 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:07,760 and say every single story is true. But again we have to be cautious 696 00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:13,000 because the inherent problem is no one can prove anything in this in this field. 697 00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:15,599 So I have to make a judgment call, I suppose, and we 698 00:51:15,599 --> 00:51:19,519 all have to make judgment calls. Who do we believe and who do we 699 00:51:19,599 --> 00:51:23,559 not believe? Um, And this, this, this becomes problematic because I 700 00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:28,280 may, like you, go to UVOTE convention. Um, you know, 701 00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,840 I'm gonna say something here that's gonna maybe hurt some feelings. But half the 702 00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:36,960 speakers up there that go up in lecture are full of nonsense and garbage and 703 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:42,400 they're there because it's a cottage industry and they like the the the glory and 704 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,199 the well the money quote unquote, um and and just the attention. Um 705 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:51,199 So, I think it's based more if there If I had to pick between 706 00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,360 the two, I would say it's more based on attention than it would be 707 00:51:54,199 --> 00:51:59,159 for the money, because there's no that's a misconception. There's no real money 708 00:51:59,199 --> 00:52:02,559 in this field, only for the you know, for the ones that one 709 00:52:02,599 --> 00:52:07,519 person I mentioned earlier and a few letters. You know, there's not really 710 00:52:07,519 --> 00:52:12,320 a lot of money. And we're about ready to go into break, so, 711 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:14,559 um so, why don't we Why don't we do that? We're going 712 00:52:14,639 --> 00:52:19,400 to go into the break and so you're listening to podcast UFO on Martin Willis 713 00:52:19,679 --> 00:52:23,360 and my guest is m J. Banias, And we'll be right back right 714 00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:28,039 after this break and just over three and a half minutes in this break gang, 715 00:52:28,199 --> 00:52:30,719 Okay, three and a half minutes, I'll set my timer. Thank 716 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:36,480 you. Um So, I'm not sure, um where you want to go 717 00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:39,679 when we come back, but we will start taking calls. It's hard to 718 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:45,239 hard to always guess how many calls we're going to get. Sometimes no one 719 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,119 calls in. Sometimes we do get you know, three or four calls. 720 00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,880 So hey, I'm down for whatever. You know, people want to give 721 00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,880 them a call, take it. Yeah, I enjoy it. Yeah yeah, 722 00:52:55,000 --> 00:53:00,280 good good. So we we talked a little bit this afternoon. Um, 723 00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:04,599 so we have you know, about three minutes left. Um, and 724 00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:08,480 you were talking about the Nimitz pilot. Um. No, not the pilot 725 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:13,039 on the radar, that's right, the radio, that's right. Daily's his 726 00:53:13,119 --> 00:53:16,840 name, day Day, Yeah, Kevin Day Ken getting this all wrong? 727 00:53:17,039 --> 00:53:22,760 Yeah, you're doing okay. He was on Phenomenon Radio Thursday night, amazing, 728 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:28,000 amazing guy. And he was on Coast to Coast two nights ago. 729 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,280 Yeah, Sunday, Sunday Georgian. Yeah, we broke we broke him Thursday 730 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:38,519 night though on Phenomenon Radio, John Burrows working with some people were successful And 731 00:53:39,039 --> 00:53:45,159 oh I heard about that. Yes, yeah it was It was a very 732 00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:47,719 it was an amazing interview. Um. You know it really it wasn't so 733 00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:52,159 much like a classic interview like you would normally think, guys. It was 734 00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,079 more like a couple of old you know, military catch just sitting back, 735 00:53:55,599 --> 00:53:59,639 yeah, talking about stuff. You know. Yeah. I did listen to 736 00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:02,239 it. Um, it's interesting though. I mean, um, there's a 737 00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:06,599 lot sort of there's a lot happening in the background. I think with this 738 00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:09,960 and and especially with maybe to the Stars a little bit and George Knappin. 739 00:54:10,199 --> 00:54:15,239 I don't know, there's there's a whole backstory here that you know, I 740 00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,719 don't know what's going on here, but Sea, Well, that's a part 741 00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:22,079 of it. That might be a good part for you to to research for 742 00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:25,199 your book. Yeah, outside of conferences, because you know, people have 743 00:54:25,199 --> 00:54:30,719 a big misconception about conferences. Conferences aren't a place where you know, really 744 00:54:30,119 --> 00:54:35,719 sought after information. It's broke. It's where people get together and they commune, 745 00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:38,519 you know what I mean. That's that's what these conferences are. Um, 746 00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:43,280 a chance for people to get close to the people that they admire and 747 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:46,119 and see them in person, just like a concert, a musical concert or 748 00:54:46,519 --> 00:54:50,960 you know one of these uh antique road show things that you know, like 749 00:54:51,039 --> 00:54:52,519 Martin does. I mean, they're fans of that. I'm a fan of 750 00:54:52,559 --> 00:54:57,599 antique road show for the love of it. But at the end of the 751 00:54:57,679 --> 00:55:00,400 day, you know, there is a group of pe people that will never 752 00:55:00,440 --> 00:55:04,920 see the light of day. We'll never do media. They'll never come forward. 753 00:55:05,000 --> 00:55:08,760 They they've worked behind the scenes for forty fifty years on this. Yeah, 754 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:14,519 and they use proxies, if you will, people that they can convey 755 00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:17,480 to and they can can disseminate information when they want it to get out. 756 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:22,000 But you're very right about, you know, sort of this moving and shaking 757 00:55:22,039 --> 00:55:27,000 behind the scenes. I'm one hundred percent with you. Yeah, Kevin Day 758 00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,760 is an interesting story. I mean, ultimately he wrote a book where he 759 00:55:29,880 --> 00:55:35,559 fictionalized this event and about seven years ago he wrote the book because he was 760 00:55:35,559 --> 00:55:40,400 twenty ten, where he tells this story. Yeah. So it's interesting, 761 00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:44,480 you know, I mean, I believe he was there. I believe he's 762 00:55:44,519 --> 00:55:46,360 the real deal. I have, I have no qualms there. It's just 763 00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:50,360 is interesting that sort of there's this whole back story. If you start going 764 00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,400 to archives of fit the above top secret website, you can sort of find 765 00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:58,119 all of these old posts from him. And then he had a post thing 766 00:55:58,159 --> 00:56:00,400 in twenty seventeen where he sort of came out and said something about it. 767 00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:05,880 And now he's sort of now, like you said, he broke on Phenomena 768 00:56:06,159 --> 00:56:08,400 Radio a few days ago. So I think we're out of time, are 769 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:12,239 we? Are we out of time. Yeah, we're ready to go when 770 00:56:12,239 --> 00:56:15,760 you guys are. Okay. So I wanted to tell you just real quickly. 771 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:21,360 We've there's a friend of the show that had a series going on. 772 00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:29,480 It was called Milgram and the fast Walkers and basically want the He was actually 773 00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:34,360 played a part in this mini series. You can find it online. It's 774 00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:38,599 actually pretty good. And basically it was a girl that was getting abducted and 775 00:56:38,760 --> 00:56:43,079 just had all the signs of it and just you know, went to a 776 00:56:43,159 --> 00:56:46,599 therapist, Like you're talking about a doctor first and then a therapist and all 777 00:56:46,599 --> 00:56:52,159 that. And I think that is like if someone is having this, you 778 00:56:52,199 --> 00:56:54,079 know, in their life and they can't really explain it, but they're just 779 00:56:54,119 --> 00:56:58,960 totally confused. I think you're right. I think starting with a therapist and 780 00:56:59,440 --> 00:57:04,840 maybe get some medical check. But I'm wondering how many therapists out there actually, 781 00:57:05,280 --> 00:57:09,079 and I've heard that there are some that will refer people to someone like 782 00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:15,400 Yvon Smith or something like that, you know, to do some regression, 783 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,880 you know, hypno regression. M What do you think about all that part 784 00:57:20,880 --> 00:57:24,239 of it? Yeah, you know, I think I think hypnotic regression has 785 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:31,119 very um yeah, I think I think I think we bump into a lot 786 00:57:31,119 --> 00:57:36,840 of problems with it. I think there's a lot of allegations that hypnotic regression 787 00:57:37,239 --> 00:57:45,199 will create false memories, um that often hypnotherapists will um whether on purpose or 788 00:57:45,239 --> 00:57:52,199 by accident, lead the clients or or to certain set of beliefs about what 789 00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:57,239 happened. So I think we need to be cautious. I'm not a doctor, 790 00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:00,320 I'm not an expert in psychology, so I I can't sort of comment 791 00:58:00,360 --> 00:58:06,280 too much, and I want to be careful. But I would say that 792 00:58:07,519 --> 00:58:12,239 if I suffered from sort of an event like this, I probably wouldn't want 793 00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,119 someone who's involved in the UFO subculture in any way to check me out. 794 00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:22,000 I wouldn't want to have that sort of set ideology the present in my mind 795 00:58:22,239 --> 00:58:30,840 as I'm you know, being evaluated or or being helped. The bigger problem 796 00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:35,199 those I'm already part of the subculture, right, I'm already engaged in this 797 00:58:35,199 --> 00:58:39,559 this world. So if I have a strange sort of anomalous experience like an 798 00:58:39,599 --> 00:58:44,599 abduction or contact event, you know, am I already going to kind of 799 00:58:44,960 --> 00:58:49,440 pull information that's already in my head about the UFO phenomena or about the UFO 800 00:58:49,480 --> 00:58:52,880 discourse and push it into oh my god, I've been abducted, you know 801 00:58:52,079 --> 00:58:59,360 whatever. I think really the more compelling cases of abduction and contact are people 802 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,679 who are not part of the UFO community, at least not before they get 803 00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:07,000 abducted UM. I think that those are sort of the more interesting ones because 804 00:59:07,079 --> 00:59:12,000 ultimately they have nothing really to draw on. They have no paradigm that they 805 00:59:12,159 --> 00:59:14,920 used to say I was abducted by Grays, or I was abducted by this, 806 00:59:15,039 --> 00:59:17,320 or that they just simply had an experience and they just sort of talk 807 00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:22,320 about it. So I don't know the witness in my book that I that 808 00:59:22,400 --> 00:59:25,840 I sort of use a lot that we talk. I sort of interview a 809 00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:30,920 lot. M. She was never a member of the UFO community before UM. 810 00:59:30,320 --> 00:59:36,360 She was just she's you know, I can't relyveal too much UM. 811 00:59:36,480 --> 00:59:40,360 But she was a former UM flight attendant. UM lives on a farm now 812 00:59:40,360 --> 00:59:44,440 with her husband, UM, just sort of living her daily life, and 813 00:59:44,559 --> 00:59:49,119 all of a sudden, anomalous stuff started happening and she reached out. So 814 00:59:49,559 --> 00:59:53,039 this was sort of a compelling case for me to investigate and look into. 815 00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,719 UM. Now, she's never had an abduction at least not that she can 816 00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,199 recall. Um. She does have a few moments I would say of maybe 817 01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:04,559 what we could call missing time, um, but she has no recollection of 818 01:00:04,559 --> 01:00:07,840 anything sort of in that in that time. And she's also telling herself you 819 01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,280 know, maybe I just screwed up on telling time, or maybe I just 820 01:00:10,320 --> 01:00:15,400 made a mistake versus her, you know, walk going down that rabbit hole 821 01:00:15,639 --> 01:00:17,199 and telling herself, well, you know, I clearly I've been abducted by 822 01:00:17,239 --> 01:00:23,039 something, so um, the sort of where yeah, go ahead and sorry, 823 01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:27,079 I'd really lost my train of thought there. Yeah. You know. 824 01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:30,480 The missing time part of this is always I always find that interesting because people 825 01:00:30,519 --> 01:00:35,639 have talked about, um, you know, situations like that going way back. 826 01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:37,719 I mean, it's not a new thing. It's uh, you know, 827 01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,360 people have talked about it all the way back into the you know, 828 01:00:40,519 --> 01:00:44,920 fifties, right, and that was even longer. I mean I think I 829 01:00:44,920 --> 01:00:49,159 think people, you know, you probably have missing time cases of individuals. 830 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,840 Um. I know, I think it was brought up in either Valet's book 831 01:00:52,719 --> 01:00:57,239 um Passport to Mongonia of of. I think individuals who would sort of go 832 01:00:57,280 --> 01:01:01,039 into this sort of fairy land um, and you know, to them they've 833 01:01:01,039 --> 01:01:06,039 been gone for five minutes, parting with you know, these elves or whatever, 834 01:01:06,079 --> 01:01:08,239 and they come back and they've been gone for five years. So I 835 01:01:08,320 --> 01:01:13,639 think you have sort of missing time sort of mythology, that's existence sort of 836 01:01:13,679 --> 01:01:16,519 for a long time in sort of the paranormal world or in the I guess 837 01:01:16,599 --> 01:01:22,440 the mystical sort of monster slash very world. I don't know what you call 838 01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,960 that, the sort of the mythological world. Say, ah, that sounds 839 01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:31,159 good. That's that's a good yeah, yeah, blanket. Anyway, we 840 01:01:31,239 --> 01:01:35,199 are taking calls now if anyone wants to call in. That numbers up on 841 01:01:35,199 --> 01:01:38,760 the screen if you're listening to YouTube, and we will take calls if anyone 842 01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:43,480 wants to UM, wants to call in. UM, someone was a little 843 01:01:43,519 --> 01:01:45,719 offended. I don't know if you want to address any part of it, 844 01:01:45,719 --> 01:01:50,199 but they were a little bit offended about the conference. UM. I can't 845 01:01:50,199 --> 01:01:53,920 remember exactly what you said about it, but maybe the fact that they they 846 01:01:54,639 --> 01:01:59,079 think you haven't gone to any conferences or whatever. All right, that's it 847 01:01:59,199 --> 01:02:02,000 for the free part the show. Thank you so much for listening. If 848 01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:06,519 you'd like to help us out, you can, and you can also listen 849 01:02:06,559 --> 01:02:10,280 to the full shows for only two dollars or more a month. I'd like 850 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:15,239 to think of people as supporters of the show, not so much subscribers. 851 01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:20,639 So that being said, you can actually listen to the full shows over at 852 01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:24,880 KGr A Radio. Of course they have the commercials in them. Also, 853 01:02:25,000 --> 01:02:30,199 it's on YouTube. You can listen to the full shows on YouTube and on 854 01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:36,360 the Dark Matter of Digital Network on Thursday evenings. I do want to say 855 01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:42,079 that again, I'd like to think of people as supporters. It's only about 856 01:02:42,199 --> 01:02:47,320 one and a half percent of the people that listen to the free show are 857 01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:51,880 the ones that support the show. In other words, it's a very small 858 01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,320 number of people that listen to the show are supporters. And I understand that. 859 01:02:55,400 --> 01:03:00,360 I get that. Why why spend any money when you can and get 860 01:03:00,400 --> 01:03:04,480 the show for free. However, we are actually in the red a bit 861 01:03:04,599 --> 01:03:07,000 and it would be nice to break even if anyone wants to jump over and 862 01:03:07,079 --> 01:03:13,679 help us out. That informations on podcast UFO dot com and next week Christopher 863 01:03:13,719 --> 01:03:17,360 O'Brien we're going to have an in house in studio guest and I want to 864 01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:22,159 thank the people that help out with the show. First, we'll start out 865 01:03:22,000 --> 01:03:28,920 with Jordan Bonaparte, who filled in for Alejandro Rojas who will be back next 866 01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:32,719 week unfortunately, who was sick this evening. Also I want to thank Evan 867 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:40,000 for helping in the background our guest m J Benaias, and also I want 868 01:03:40,000 --> 01:03:45,559 to thank Peggy for managing the Facebook page. And that's it, so remember 869 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:58,719 to keep your eyes to the sky.