This podcast contains graphic descriptions, explicit language, and audio clips that may be
disturbing to some audiences. Listener discretion is advised. Life is full of disappointments.
Sometimes we don't look how we want to look, feel how we want
to feel, or get what we want to have. This can apply to
so many different facets that there are just too many to even list. However,
it can be assumed that every person has experienced this and have at one
point in your life desired something and just having gotten it. Another beautiful part
of life is moving on from this desire and realizing, hey, it's okay,
because that is just how life goes. We have the choice to either
appreciate what we are given and make the best of it, or we have
the choice to not feel that way. At least that's how some of us
think now. I understand sometimes feelings are uncontrollable due to a slew of different
reasons, but for the sake of generalization, I think you can get what
I'm trying to allude to here. For others with less reasoning, compassion,
or empathy, the notion of not getting what they want or not being able
to do something that they believe that they should be able to do well.
That is a whole different story and a whole different thought process. As we
have talked about time and time again on this show, it is hard to
understand what goes through a person's mind when they cross that line between right and
wrong. While we speak of this topic incessantly, we may never truly understand
why people do the things that they do. You're listening to the Apex and
the Abyss, and this is the story of Lauren Gettings. No one has
seen her sincerity. I haven't seen anything. I've always seen her noise outside
but people walking by pretty much. And she just recently graduated in the person.
Yeah, and we were both JD's students. We graduated back in May.
Lauren Giddings was born on April eighteenth, nineteen eighty four, to Karen
and William Giddings. Lauren, along with her parents and her two younger sisters,
hailed from Tachhoma Park, Maryland. In two thousand and two, Lauren
would graduate from high school in Columbia, Maryland. Lauren was extremely ambitious and
an excellent student. Those who knew her best would describe her as someone who
lived her life to the fullest every day and was a friend to everyone.
After high school, Lauren would attend Agnes Scott College in Georgia. Once she
graduated from there, she enrolled in Mercer University Walter F. George School of
Law. Lauren dreamed of being a defense lawyer, and in June of twenty
eleven, she was intensely studying for her upcoming bar exam. She had completed
her studies and this was the final task between her and her ultimate goal.
Tragically, Lauren would never get to fulfill her dream of becoming a lawyer.
In fact, Lauren would not even get the chance to take her bar exam
at all because of her classmate and neighbor, Stephen McDaniel. What kind of
person was she? I made? How did you? What did I'm She's
as nice as can be. I'm very personable, very much people person Do
you know anybody d any enemies? You might have had, somebody that might
want to hurt her? No, I'm we don't know where she is.
I'm the only thing we can think is that maybe she went out running and
someone snatched her. Who is Stephen McDaniel Well? He was born on September
ninth, nineteen eighty five to Glenda and Mark McDaniel. The Georgia couple would
also have a daughter. Stephen's sister at this time had spent a majority of
her life battling a drug addiction and has had numerous stints in jail. Stephen's
sister would have six children, four of which would eventually be adopted by his
parents due to the fact that his sister could not take care of them.
This type of situation is difficult on a family. Glinda and Mark seemed to
do what they believed was right for their children, but ultimately they both seemed
to take a darker path. Stephen would have interest in things like sci fi
and fantasy. He was also a big fan of doing puzzles and singing in
the local boys choir. In two thousand and four, he would graduate from
high school. After he completed his undergraduate degree, he would receive a scholarship
to attend Mercer Law. However, he was put on a wait list at
first, but eventually he got into the law program. Stephen would be described
as quirky, at least by one of his college professors. He thrived on
his oddities to get much wanted attention. He would frequently brag about his interest
and collection of swords and guns. It is said that Stephen would also obsessively
discuss the notion behind the perfect murder. One of his former friends had even
witnessed Stephen picking a locked door under ten seconds and stating, see, I
can get to you whenever I want. A creepy joke to say the least,
but at the time this friend thought nothing of the comment. Stephen,
just like his classmate Lauren, had just completed his studies at Mercer Law and
was prepping for the bar exam. Stephen had been at Mercer since two thousand
and eight, and it is said that on his application to get into the
school, he wrote that he considered himself a deep thinker and highly competitive in
any given situation. Stephen was unemployed but would frequently babysit his nieces and nephews,
and he was allegedly working on writing a novel. Stephen was hoping to
be a prosecuting attorney with the end goal of becoming a federal judge. He
was far from a dumb individual. In fact, he was very intelligent,
even though it had been no good by some of his teachers that he didn't
always apply himself as much as he should have with his studies. Stephen McDaniel
could have been a great attorney, but he too would never get the chance
to take his bar exam. You see, Stephen McDaniel lived in the apartments
across the street from Mercer Law, and so did Lauren Giddings. The pair
had known each other for about three or four years. Lauren was always friendly
to Stephen, even though she didn't know him that well. They were acquaintances,
two people with the same goal of becoming lawyers in some fashion, but
the friendship was nowhere near close. Lauren had once asked Stephen to help her
when she was having computer trouble, but that seemed to be the extent of
the friendship, apart from frequent pleasantries if they saw each other in their shared
hallway. Despite not knowing her that well, Stephen was infatuated with Lauren.
He saw her as every one saw her, as a beautiful young woman who
was intelligent, ambitious, and had an unstoppable drive. When Stephen would eventually
ask Lauren out on a date, she respectfully declined. She had been dating
a young man off and on for a few years, and at this time
they had been on. A person with reason would take this declined offer and
move on, but Stephen couldn't do that. What Lauren didn't know was that
Stephen was obsessed with her since the moment he saw her. He would watch
her when she would go out for a run, he would watch her go
into her apartment, and he would watch her while she was in her apartment.
When Lauren would talk to her family back home in Maryland, she never
indicated to them that she felt threatened down in Georgia. In fact, she
truly thrived in the South. You would have thought that she was born and
raised there. Her friends would frequently joke that she was never going to come
home and she was always going to be a Southern girl. The only thing
that Lauren would mention was that she got this weird feeling when she was in
her apartment, sometimes, as if someone had been in there and moved things
around when she wasn't home. Perhaps this was just simply some paranoia, But
little did Lauren know that her gut feeling was right. Stephen McDaniel had somehow
obtained a master key to the apartment building he lived in. Now, if
you don't know anything about master keys, it's very simple. They have the
ability to open several different locks. The master key that Stephen McDaniel had was
able to unlock Lauren's door. It would later come out that Stephen would go
into Lauren's apartment from time to time. It is believed that he removed personal
photos off of her computer onto a portable drive and uploaded them to his computer.
Eventually, the police would get a hold of Stephen's computer and be able
to see that he looked at violent pornography and then looked at these photos of
Lauren. It was a back and forth ritual of his Towards the end of
June in twenty eleven, Lauren was prepping for the bar exam. The bar
is an intense test. It is typically broken up over two days and takes
about twelve hours to take. Those who truly want to become lawyers study aggressively
to make sure they pass. In most states, the pass rate for the
bar exam sits somewhere around fifty to seventy percent, so among the people who
do take it, a decent amount of people fail. Lauren knew all of
this, and she knew what was at stake, so she told her friends
that she was going on a lockdown and to basically not bother her because she
was hunkering down and studying in her apartment or the law library. Knowing how
much passing this test meant to her, her friends and family obliged. The
last time Lauren spoke to her family was on June twenty fourth, twenty eleven.
She was having a text conversation with her sister, who just so happened
to be on her way home from her honeymoon. A few days would go
by before her sister realized that Lauren had not replied to the last message of
the conversation, something that was very odd for Lauren, even if she was
busy. Eventually, other family members began to get worried about Lauren's silence.
They would ask Lauren's friends and Georgia to go check on her to make sure
she was all right. With a spare key, her friend would enter her
apartment. They would note that it looked as though everything was normal. Lauren's
laptop was sitting on her bed, her purse was in her living room containing
her idea and keys. If her friends didn't know any better, Lauren had
just gone out for a run and was going to be back shortly. Lauren's
family and friends would file a missing person's report, and the police would note
the same things her friends had that there seemed to be no sign of a
struggle or a break in the only thing odd about this whole situation was that
Lauren was not there. A few days would go by and investigators would enter
Lauren's apartment again to take photos and attempt to gather evidence. However, when
they were outside, they would smell something horrid. The smell would lead them
to the trash cans that were sitting in front of the apartment complex they were
waiting to be picked up. Typically, the trash would have been picked up
earlier in the morning, but on this day, the sanitation worker driving the
truck Noga's police cars blocking his path, so he went about his route and
decided to make his way back there to gather the trash when he was able.
If it wasn't for this twist of fate, police may never have truly
known what happened to Lauren Giddings. Authorities would open the trash can that was
emitting the stench of decay, and inside the was fine. The torso of
a young Caucasian female, though they could not make an identification right away due
to the fact that the body was missing its head and appendages. The police
had a gut feeling that this was the dismembered body of Lauren Gettings. While
all this was going on, Stephen McDaniel had been helping people search for Lauren.
He would even do multiple TV interviews. No one had seen her since
Saturday because we all just there's not a whole lot of interaction unless we're doing
classes, right, And she was doing an online version of it you out
study together though, I yeah, we were in there's two different people that
there's two companies that provided Captain provides it and Barbie provides it. I signed
up with Barbarie and I've been doing the lectures that they have in the mornings.
She was doing the Kaplan online. So I ever saw her. I
would see her like go out running, But I mean what time might she
go out running? I mean, I don't even know when, I at
night or morning? I saw her like mid day a couple of weeks ago.
I mean that was the last time I saw her. Was come back
from the bar prep on the main camp because we got moved over there for
a week. Or two, but she normally would run. Ye, she
she ran all the time. I mean she she had a group that she
would go running with. I I don't know anyone that would want to hurt
her. She was I was nice person as there is. But she moved.
Did you know anything about her? Yeah? Yeah, she she was
going to be moving out today. She was supposed to move out today because
someone else was going to be moving into her apartment Boston. Do you know
if she was sorry? Where is she from? Marly? Yeah, she's
from up in Mary's all right, Okay, I'm so sorry and you can
just hold on me. I thank you. Yeah, she's from Maryland.
Yeah, I mean she she was from up in Maryland and all her family
was there as far as I know, I mean she what's going on in
your mind right now? Like, what are you thinking? Why would anyone
would do this? Anything? No? I just heard something. Maybe I
gotta help? Okay, don do you wanted to adoper A seven? During
one particular interview, the reporter wouldn' formed Stephen that a body was found,
and this information seemed to shock him greatly. One of her friends had a
key. We went inside and tried to see if there was anything amiss,
but I mean she had a door jam that was sitting right by it,
so there was no sign that anyone broke in. I think the door was
locked when everyone got here. We just don't know where she is. What
about in the like the parking lot area, I know they've been doing a
lot of I think that's where they had recovered the body or whatever they recovered
from there. Had you heard any had just seen anything there, had just
get anything there? I mean, we don't know if this was the same
person, you know what I mean, Like they did out a body there
earlier. We don't know if it's the same person or That's how we're trying
to ask people they know who lived there. Are you okay through? I
think I need to sit down, okay. Steven's behavior struck the authorities as
odd. His emotion undulated from calm to worried to hysterical. It appeared as
though he was acting. Police would ask to look into Stephen's apartment, which
he allowed because an innocent person would let the police search his apartment. Right
While they were asking Stephen questions and looking around, the police noted that Stephen
seemed extremely nervous and was sweating profusely. During this odd interaction, Stephen would
somehow admit to committing a burglary within the apartment complex. Authorities had a bad
feeling about Stephen, and they believed he was involved in the abduction and murder
of Lauren Giddings. However, all the information they have regarding that was circumstantial.
But burglary is a crime, and Stephen admitted to it, so they
were able to detain him at the local police station and interrogate him. What
you're about to hear are snippets from Stephen mcdane knows interrogation. I just gotta
ask you a few questions. Oh, you came down earlier tonight. I
mean you talked all right, you don't have any weapons all you do?
That's just she want what's wrong? You know, Detective Patterson? Right?
Yes, do you remember good chance up here? You remember us talking earlier
tonight? Right? You remember me earlier today? Yes, we came down
here and talked a little bit and then we left. Yes, Okay,
I need to know about this girl right here. You know her? Yes?
Who is that Lauren Gettings? Does she live next door to you?
Yes? What's the last time you've seen her two or three weeks ago.
Okay? Was your friends with Lauren? Yes? Look at me and we
talked to me. So, okay, was your friends with her? Yes?
Close friends? I mean y'all were friends, right, both of y'all
law students. You're starting to be an attorney? Right? What kind of
law do you want to go into? Criminal law? Silky? Is that
what you want to do for a living? Yes? Okay? Are you
almost finished? Yes? Okay, So you don't have too much more to
do? Right? All right? Are you gonna stay here and making I
don't know. Did you used to work at the District Attorney's office and making
Yes? Was you on the prosecutor side or the defense side? So you
on our side? Right? You never worked on the other side. Did
you like it when you were down there? Yes? Got along with everybody?
Yes? Okay? And you live next to Lauren for a long time.
Yes? Do you know where she's at tonight? No authorities wanted to
know what happened to Lauren, But from the moment this interview started, Stephen
was acting extremely odd and was speaking very unusually. Look, just tell me
what happened, brother, I don't know. Well, worse yet I need
you. I'm asking you for your help. I'm a detective and I'm asking
you for your help. Okay, I'm asking you for help. I need
your help. Can you help me? I don't know. You don't know
if you can help me? Yes, I need your help. Help me
out, tell me what to do? Has anybody asked you for help today?
I need your I'm asking you as a friend for help. Can you
help me? I don't know. What do you mean? You don't know?
You can't help a friend out. I don't know what you need.
I need to know where Laurence, saying, I don't know. What's the
last time you've seen her? Two or three weeks ago? Has anybody Have
you ever seen anybody over her house the last couple of lines? No?
Okay, if you knew where she was, would you tell me? Yes,
what do you think happened to her? I don't know. Do you
even care that no one came out? Yes? I mean I don't know.
Do you yes? Do you have a girlfriend now? Did you think
Lauren was your girlfriend? No? The detective would bring up the fact that
Stephen owned more than one car, something he would keep denying despite it being
confirmed by multiple sources. During the interview, they kept pushing Stephen and keep
bringing up the fact that they found underwear in his apartment, women's underwear.
He said, you didn't have any other cars, right right? Why would
you? Everybody you want to school with the last three and four years said
that you own another car other than that geo prism. Everybody I talked to,
all your friends you were in school with, people that you worked at
the District Attorney's office with, said you have other cars other than that car.
And you're gonna sit here today and tell me you don't have another car.
I don't where's that? I don't have one? You never had another
car besides that geo prism. So if I call your granddaddy, he's gonna
tell me that you only have one car. Yes. What's his phone?
Mother? Yeah? Because I already have him. You don't know the phone
over? No? M hmm. I mean you seriously can't help us out
the numbers in myself? Where's about to start? Where's your cell phone?
The apartment? In your apartment? I mean, it's kind of like to
be calling him. Does he stay up late? I don't know. Do
you have a grandmother or just him? My grandmother passed away a while by.
Yes, but you're close to your grandfather, right, yes? I
mean don't he owns some property or something? He said, A couple of
acres? My granddaddy or my grandfather who lives in Pike County? My granddaddy
does he own any land down there? Yes? And do sometimes you go
down to visit him or some open Last time we met, I went down
to business edge with my hands and uncle. What did he do for a
livel Was he an attorney like you're he worked for the Southern rail of the
company. Is he in buying your family an attorney? Now you're the only
one that went through law school? Yes, that's an accomplishment, don't you
know? Yes? I mean it took a long time, right, yes,
a lot of a lot of studying. They then asked Stephen, who
do you think to Lauren? Who do you think took Lauren away? I
don't know. Well, I need your help, give me some What what
is your observation of this? I know you're smarter, Okay, I know
you have an observation. You can tell me what's what do you think happened
to her? I think someone took her? You think I mean you watch
TV shows, right, what's your observation? How do you think somebody would
take her? If somebody did take her when she was running? Did she
normally run all the time? She runs? I don't know. You mean
you think somebody might have took her when she was running, like down the
street somewhere. Yes, you don't think somebody got her when you've got back
to her apartment, I don't know. Well, you know there was a
body found in the trash can next to the armors. Yes, you do
know that. And it's a female, white female's body right now, right
next to your department, feet within from her apartment. I mean, we
don't know one hundred percent sure it's lard, but we're pretty confident it is.
I wait for some tests to be done to be a hundred percent sure.
I mean, who would who would do something to somebody throw in a
trash can? I'm asking for your advice or your observation. Who in your
complex would do something like that? You live over there for three years.
Tonight's the first night I think I've ever been over there. In your expert
opinion of all your knowledge, are going through law school and all that,
Who in that complex do I need to talk to? I don't know.
No names come to mind. You can't help me out a little bit.
M. You can't help me out. I don't know. You don't know
anybody at all that lives in that complex. You know, earlier you told
me about a guy who lives in apartment fifteen. I mean he's a decent
guy, I think. So. Don't y'all have a launder room there or
something that everybody has access to the launder room? Yes, anybody been working
over the apartments below you in the last couple of weeks that you've noticed.
I haven't seen anyone, but you don't. You don't know if they've been
doing work on the department number one? Now, I mean earlier today,
I mean you sit here and talk normal. What's going on with you?
Now? Why are you acting like this? I need to know. Well,
all of a sudden, you're acting like this. H. I don't
understand. Okay, earlier today we sit here and talked, But now you're
acting like you don't know what's going on. HM. I mean there's something
happened or something. Tell you, why are you not why are you shutting
down? Why are you not talking to me? I don't know. You
don't know. Are you scared now? I mean you're not scared? Are
you now? Are you sad? That's something happened? Alarm if that's her
in that trash can? Yes? Once? Last time you said you can't
remember the last time earlier today that you took the trash out to the trash
can? Right? Am I wrong? Right? I mean because you said
you liked stayed inside the whole the whole weekend. I think because you had
all your food and all that. You never went to Crowber over the weekend
or walm Ward or anything. I don't remember, but you could have.
I don't know when you go to Kroeger. When you do go to the
store to get your food, do you use a credit card or you pay
cash cash? Do you have a Crocer card? Yes? Okay, so
the Crower cards should be able to tell if you were hey Croker this weekend?
Ryan? Yes? Do you swipe your card and just into your cell
phone number? Because I ain't on my phone up because I can't never remember
a brand of card. But you don't remember if you went over to Bay
you drive your car or you walk over there. Do you ever go to
Walmart? On the East Time Great Highway? Or which Walmart do you go
to? When you go to Walmart Great Highway? You don't ever go out
to Zepplin Row. I don't think so. You've never been out there.
You know where Zeblin wrote the new Walmart? Now you know? So you
just basically go to Long Railway. Yes. Do you know where you're at
the night? Yes? Where are you at? Detective you? And you
know why we've been working all day trying to find Lauren Ryan. Yes,
because her family wants to know where she's at. Yes, And I don't
know what to tell her family. So I'm asking you what do I need
to tell her family? I don't know. What do you want me to
tell him? I don't know. Huh, You're gonna have to tell me
what to tell her family. It's aw along you brother? What do you
want to be to tell her family? H I don't know. Well,
I need to know. I need to know. Okay, there's something happened
to Lauren. And you know you need to tell me if you know something,
because I need to know because her family's down here. I want to
know what happened to her. I don't know. You don't know, now,
that's what you want me to tell her mother and her father that you
don't know God, that you're sorry that she's missing. And I thought you've
been trying to help me all day find her, but you just want me
to tell her I don't know. Are you a sorry piece of shit that
you want me to tell her that you got your ass on that fucking news
and stood out there and gave a media report that her mother saw about her
missing daughter, And you want me to sit there and tell him that you
don't know. Is that what you want me to tell him? Because you're
all over the news. You sure stood out there and ran your mouth to
the news media, But now you're gonna get out of here, and you
don't fucking know. You know, you're just a sorry piece of shit that
don't give a fuck? Right, Yeah, Well, why would you tell
the media everybody? Do you need to see what you told the media today?
It was on the eleven o'clock news. Well, I'm asking you tell
me. I want to know. I don't know where she is. That
ain't what you told the media. You didn't stand in front of that camera
and say I don't know, I don't know, I don't know At this
point in the interview, the detective is getting frustrated. Stephen is sitting oddly
still. He refuses to see anything beyond I don't know when I asked questions
when they know that he has more information. You don't know, now,
that's what you want me to tell her mother and her father that you don't
know, Not that you're sorry that she's missing. I thought you've been trying
to help me all day find her, but you just want me to tell
her I don't know. Are you a sorry piece of shit that you want
me to tell her that you got your ass on that fucking news and stood
out there and gave a media report that her mother saw about her missing daughter,
And you want me to sit there and tell him that you don't know?
Is that what you want me to tell him? Because you're all over
the news. You sure stood out there and ran your mouth to the news
media. But now you're gonna get out here and you don't fucking know.
You know, you're just a sorry piece of shit that don't give a fuck?
Right, Yeah, well, why'd you tell the media everybody? Do
you need to see what you told the media today? It was on eleven
o'clock news. Well, I'm asking you tell me. I want to know.
I don't know where she is. That ain't what you told the media.
You didn't stand in front of that camera and say I don't know,
I don't know, I don't know right about all these weapons? Was you
ever in a military? No? What do you need all these weapons for?
Are you scared somebody's gonna hurt you? Yeah? What do you need
all these weapons for? Why there's a reason. Why were you molested as
a child? No? Then why do you need all these weapons? Why
give me one good reason? Just give me one reason. Why does it
make you feel important? Yeah? M hmm. Are you a big guy
because you got a weapon? No? Do you even know how to use
it? Yes? I need you to tell me what you want me to
tell her mother, and then I won't ask you another thing. I'm not
gonna tell her mother that you don't know because her mother saw you on the
news tonight and she cried all the way down to making because you had the
balls to get on the news and tell everybody everything. You don't have no
problem talking to the news. I want to ask you questions. I'm asking
you questions. Where's Lauren, Yes, you do know, you do,
don't you do know? You know? You know, you do know,
And everybody Making knows you knows because you got your sorry ass on the news
and told everybody. So every friend you have in Making knows you know.
Everybody go to school with, every one of your professors, everybody he knows
that you know because you got on the news to mine and told everybody that
you know. How do you think, hmm, think you're gonna be walking
down the street tomorrow and nobody bother you? Hm? Think nobody's gonna come
over and knock on your door to see if you want to talk to the
media again. I don't know. Oh, they're gonna be over there,
brother, So this little act that you're doing right now, I ain't working
with me, okay, because you didn't have no problem talking to the media,
no problem. So you can just snap out of and tell me what
they'll happen so we can move on. I don't know, well how many
times you're gonna say I don't know, hm, how many times you're gonna
say it? What are you gonna say? I remember? I don't want
to remember what happened to her? How many times you're gonna say that if
you did something that you regret, you let me know. I didn't.
Who did? I don't know? Well, a lot of was found over
here, right next to where you live. And what do you have in
your apartments? A lot of nis my guns. A new detective would walk
into the interview room to give the first one a break. This detective is
more abrasive and begins to question Stephen about the guns. Hunes. So you
talked to him about his guns? Yeah, when's the last time you shot
those guns? You've never shot a gun? Have you ever shot any gun
in your whole life? Now? Never? No? So you bought three
guns as you never shot? Yes? Why for? What? For?
What? I'm asking for? What? Why do you want to have them?
What makes did they give you? I mean, tell me why it's
important for you to have three guns? That's an easy question. Come on,
talk to me, buddy. I mean, you've talked all day today.
We ain't had a problem communicating. Why is it important for you to
have three guns? Do you not know? No? Okay, Um,
you got a girlfriend? No? Who's your best friend? Michael quin?
Michael? Who who is he? He was a law student with me,
is he does he still a law student? He graduated? When was the
last time you talked to him before he moved up to Boston? How long
ago was that? A few weeks? A few weeks, like a month?
Two months, two weeks, three weeks? What the beginning of June?
Beginning of June? Yeah? Uh? June? Okay, So let
me ask you a question. How you say you don't know? What?
Are his? Right? Right? You said you told me earlier you and
long we're friends? Right? Yes? How would you describe y'all's relationship?
She was my friend, she was your friend. What did you ever do
things for it? She ever do things for you? What did she ever
do for you? We talked? What y'all talk about? News? The
news? Okay? Um? Earlier you was telling me something about you fixed
her computer before. I couldn't fix it. You couldn't fix it? What
was wrong with it? I don't remember. How long ago was that?
Around graduation? How long ago was that? Middle liddle of May? So
you were over in her apartment in the middle of May. Yes? Have
you been over this since then? Yes? When was the last time you
rover there? Last night? Before last night? Have you ever been over
there? With Lauren since the time you've worked during her computer in the middle
of bay. No, how many times have you been in her problem with
her hand out? I know you don't know if you had to guess,
what was just? I mean one time, two times? Three times?
What? Two? Maybe? Two? See? If I had only been
somewhere twice, I could remember that if I had been there over fifty times,
and you asked me how many times I've been, like, I don't
know a lot. But the fact that you've only been there twice? When
I say how many times been you say you don't know. That's just odd
to me. Does that make sense to you? Yes? That does make
sense. What so what I'm saying right now makes sense? No? The
detective calls Stephen out. He knows, he knows more than he is letting
on. When was the last time you saw Lauren? Two or three weeks
ago? And you have you been on vacation for the last couple of weeks?
You've been home every night? Yes? Has she been at home every
night? I don't know. Has she been on vacation? I think she
was away for a while. How long? I don't know? Were you
looking for? Now? Let me tell you even if I didn't talk to
my neighbors. I know if my neighbors have been in and out. I
hear them come in, I hear them go out. I see him when
they walked by my window. I've lived in a parkas most of my life.
So the fact that you haven't seen her in two or three weeks,
that's just odd. Demand I'm gonna be It makes me feel like you're not
being honest with me, Stephen. Why would you not be honest with me,
Stephen? It just doesn't feel like it, buddy. You know,
I get the sense that there's something weighing heavy on your heart right now,
and it's breaking you down, and you feel bad about it. I can
tell you you haven't slept much, have you in the last few days?
Have you no like something's weighing on your mind? Named we were looking for
Lauren. You started looking for Lauren yesterday. But you haven't slept in several
days, have you? Yes? You have. Earlier when I talked to
you, you said you hadn't slept in days, that this morning was the
first time you was able to get into sleep. Was this morning for a
little bit? No, Yes, that's what you said. That's what you
told me. So I if you have been able to sleep and several days,
what have you been doing? Study? And you said, yeah,
studying. You don't remember that. No, what I want you to do
and I'm gonna ask you this question. I want you to describe to me
how you feel right now. You don't know how to answer that with it
yes or no? Dude, I don't know what's going on. Lawn's missing.
This pretty little girl right here, your neighbor, she's missing. I
know you weren't looking for last night. Yeah, did you heard la Now,
Stephen, did you heard Laing? No? I know this is hard
if you to tell it, but it's weighing on you right now. And
it's Steven. I didn't do it, But I know you can probably help
me with who did? Can't you? Buddy? I don't know? Stephen?
You know, and I mean you both know. It's no different than
when you was a little kid, right and you reached in that cookie jar
and you got called after your mama told you not to get that cookie.
And when she was did you get a cookie? No? And whenever you
tell a lie, you feel bad about it? Right then, one with
every line is a chance you're gonna get caught, and that weighs on you
because you know you did something bad. All right, I didn't do it.
You didn't take the cookie. Now, the detective that brings up the
fact that, despite Stephen looking like an unkempt person, his apartment had been
recently cleaned. What did you do, buddy, I didn't do anything.
What did you do the lord? I didn't do anything. You saw lord
last night though, yesterday? No, what time was it that she went
out to do it? Long? I don't know where were you at yesterday?
At home? What did you do at home? Tell me everything you
did yesterday, from the time you woke up to the time you went to
slip check the news at what time? I don't remember. Was it yesterday
morning? I don't remember. What did you do when you woke up?
I think I checked the news? All right? You checked the news,
okay, But you do after that? I watched some videos online to clean
up. No, you didn't. No, you smell like you've been cleaning
up, Like you've been using cleaner to clean up. I know that smells
like my wife smells like that all the time when she cleans the house.
You've been using some kind of cleaner to clean up your apartment, hadn't you
No, Stephen? Did you tell me you live it like I mad?
How does your apartment get cleaned? I cleaned it, okay? The last
time you claimed this, Stephen, I don't remember. Was it this week?
No? You mean you go a whole week without claning? Yes?
Why that's horrible, Steven. Was it possibly with the weekend last weekend?
No, it wasn't. If you can't remember, then how is it that
you can tell me that you didn't clean up your apartment last weekend? Minute
ago? You couldn't remember. I don't remember cleaning last weekend. So it
isn't that you didn't. It's that you just don't remember. All right,
help me out, buddy, right, I don't understand. You don't understand.
Eventually, the detective expresses his opinion on what he thinks happened to Lauren.
I don't know how else to say, at Stephen, let me tell
you what I think. I think that she was a friend of yours.
Look at her right here. I think that she was a friend of yours,
and I think something happened, Steven. She used to watch her come
in and out of her apartment, didn't you? Now, I mean,
then, how were y'all friends? If y'all were, if me and you
friends, we live next door to each other. Every time I see you,
look at what I see all my buddy going in because we're friends,
I'm gonna pay attention to when you come in and out. Didn't you just
tell me that y'all were friends? Yes, but you don't get don't pay
attention to when she came in and out? No, Steve your line.
Now you're lying. You're just lying. That's a lie. You ever see
her committing out of her apartment? Yes? You did? When was the
last time? You don't remember? Like last week? Maybe you don't think
so. Stephen, you understand that everything that you're saying, he doesn't make
any sense at all. No, No, you totally contradict everything that relates
to human behavior. We have skills to be able to observe things, to
hear things, to see things. There are natural things out there to draw
our attention every day. That's just when you're driving down a court road.
Is somebody hits the horn, you look around. You know what I'm saying.
That's the natural reaction. If you're sitting in your living room, you
hear the door standing next to you, you automatically think, my neighbor's home,
right, You're you're telling me that those kind of things don't happen in
your life. You asked if I watched, I didn't watch. Had you
noticed that she's came in and out of our house in the last week or
two? I don't remember. What do you remember, Steven? Last time
I saw it was two or three weeks ago, dude? Where she was
going out running? When I was coming in? What were you coming in
from? Preparation? Bar preparation? What's the bar preparation? Oh, you're
preparing for the bar? Then? Yes, okay? The first detective would
return at this point, he's playing the good cop in this scenario. It
seems he pleads for Stephen to help them find Lauren. Where hell y'all doing?
We're just talking. You never seemed to remember a whole lot. Everything's
yes or no. I don't remember a lot of things. Don't making anything.
I gotta be honest with you, Stephen, me personally, I don't
feel like you're being honest. Okay, Well, Steven, you say she's
gonna help me out right? Well, this investigation because we needed your help.
We're asking you for help, right, that's what we remember. I
told you that, yes, and you told me you're gonna help man,
right, You're gonna help me find Lauren? Right? Yes? And I
asked for your opinion, your observation, and what happened to her? Right?
What did you tell me? I thought someone snatched her? All right?
Where do you think someone might have snatched her from? If you're the
detective, if you're the police detective, it's your investigation. Where would you
start your investigation? I come on, now, you watch TV? Right?
Yes? Okay, you made it through college, right, yes,
you made it just about through law school? Yes, so you should know
where would you start your investigation? Where she was last seen? Okay?
So in this case, where was she last seen at Garen's house? Garen
that's the guy that lives up on street, right, a friend of hers?
Yes, okay, all right, and that was on I think she
left there on Saturday morning? Yeah, am I? Right? Okay?
Now where do you think she went from their house? All right? You're
the detective, now, all right, it's your case. What would you
do? Check at her home? Kay? We did that, but you
know that's what we did today right check, you saw us out there when
we knocked on your door. She's not there. You know I need your
help in finding her. What do we need to do? What do we
need to do that we haven't done? You know, you don't know.
So if you had this case, you wouldn't be able to solve as that
that you're saying because you're not smart enough to solve it. I don't know,
or you think you're smart enough to be take us, I don't know.
No, you gotta be killing me, Steven, as you Steven,
So, Steven, listen to me. We're real people and we're here to
talk to you. We're trying to We're I like to think that we're friends,
okay, friends communicate back and forth. The only thing you said is
yes and no one. I don't know, okay. It makes me feel
like you're treating me like you don't like me. And I feel like I've
looked out for you today. Everything you said you wanted, I'm giving you.
I'll try to give you food several times. You know. I feel
like we've talked. You told me about how you like to look at point
on the internet. Um, you expressed me that you're virgin. Correct.
Yes, I mean that's the kind of stuff you tell friends. You know
what I'm saying. Right, Stephen won't budge. His broken record of I
don't know, Oh, I don't know is not working. Little does he
know the detectives have been gathering evidence this whole time. They know that he
knows more what happened alone. Yeah, you like Kurt, don't you?
Did you ever think about having sex with her? No, you never tried
to talk to her on a dating level. Let me go talk. They
got his grandfather. Let me go talk. Make sure that he owns another
car, because he's telling us he doesn't. You're right by it. So
you're telling me she had a pretty girl, right, Yes, you're telling
me you look that a pretty girl like that, and you never once thought
ever, man, she looks good. You never thought that. I don't
understand. What do you mean you don't understand? Did you know when you
sitting here, you see a girl walking down the road, and he said,
man, that girl looks good. You see a good looking girl?
Where you think yourself? Man, a girl looks good? Yes, you
never thought that about her? Yes, So you mean to tell me you
look at pawn on the Internet and get off to that. But you never
looked to her and said, man, I wonder what it'd be LIKEO to
have sex with her? Yes, you have. No. Have you ever
thought about what it would be like to have sex for long? No?
You never imagined having sex fu long? No? Have you ever had sex
ful long? No? What do you know about that body we found today?
I don't know. You don't know. What if I told you that
I believe that you do know, I don't What if I told you that
I could prove it. I don't know. You don't know. Is there
a chance? But you do admit that there's a chance that I possibly have
evidence to show that you don't have something to do with that body? Correct?
I don't know. You don't know because if I hadn't done anything,
I say, no, there's no way. But you say you don't know.
Why is that? Why do you say you don't know? Is there
a chance that maybe something's there? Now? Why did you say you don't
know? Because I don't know? Because you're worried about something. Maybe something
happened, that maybe something got mixed up with something, and you're worried about
that. No, the why you say I don't know because I don't know.
How would you not know? If I was asking you, did you
just rob a bank? If you didn't, you'd say no, not.
I don't know, right right? So why do you say I don't know
because I don't know. You don't know if you had anything to do with
that body? I didn't You didn't. Are you sure? Yes? What
if I said I could prove that you did? I don't know. Could
you explain it? I don't know. Today you told an investigator that you
were worried about is possibly finding blood in your apartment? Didn't it? I
don't remember you did. Now, why would you be worried about that?
We all looked in the lawren's apartment. Did you see blood that? What
would make you think that that there was blood taken over there? Nothing would
make you think that unless you saw it, because see, I didn't see
no blood. None of the other Lawd's friends saw blood. But I know
now that blood was there, and now I believe you saw it. You
saw that blood. You know that blood was there, and that's why you're
worried about it. No, did you know? Why do you have blood
up in the inside of your nose? I don't know. You don't know,
but you saw that blood. That's the only way that you would be
worried about it, because that's like saying, I'm worried about red roses being
under my pillow, but yet I never put on there. That doesn't make
any sense. You know, your brain doesn't even think to operate like that
unless you knew something was there. Does that make sense? That made sense
that you're a smart guy, right, I don't understand you knew that there
was blood in that apartment. No, yes you did, Stephen, Yes
you did. There's blood in your apartment, Stephen. That's right, there's
blood in your apartment. Stephen. This is hard, buddy. I know
this is hard, and I can tell it's only you want to let it
go. There's blood in your apartment, Stephen. You didn't get it all
up, It didn't all come off. You scrubbed and you wiped. But
we can tell that, don't you, white CSI, yeah, we know
it, Stephen. Why is there blood in your bathroom? Yes? You
do know why? Stephen? Has anybody else been in your bathroom? The
police were there. Other than the police, who else has been in there?
No one? And you recently cleaned your bathroom. Didn't you know how
long ago? A couple of days ago, over the weekend. No,
No, you don't know. I don't remember cleaning it. Do you use
drugs? You ever use ascid? No? Are you you're on medication?
Your line still. I wanted to give you an opportunity to telling I wanted
to be here with you to go through that process because I know you're not
a monster. Man. I know you're not a bad guy. You're just
a hard working student trying to pass the bar exam. Mansion. You ain't
got a lot of support from your family, dud, Yes, you do.
A lot of people can't say that. And the fact that you do
have support from your family should make the things easier to do. Your family
wants to feel like they've raised somebody that tells the truth and is honest.
Right, Yes, did you heard that girl? Stephen? Now? Had
you ever heard anyone? Stephen? Now? The remainder of the interview,
Stephen remains almost catatonic. They tell him they have discovered a body, but
they have yet too ideas. They speak to him about his work at the
DA's office and how people spoke of how personable and kind he was, but
they still keep grilling him, trying to break him. We have to go
to our best resources when we're trying to do anything. You know, It's
kind of like the guy who wants to get his old chain. He goes
ugulu. You know what I'm saying. We're looking for long and you said
you were her friend? Aren't to her friend? Yes? All good friends?
Yes? How good of friends are y'all? Friends? Like? How
good a friends? I don't understand. You don't understand. You don't understand
how good a friends y'all are? You don't understand what you ask? How
good of friends are y'all? Friends? Are y'all close friends? Are y'all
just acquaintances? Um? Y'all? Study? I mean, how good a
friends? Y'all? We're friends? Are y'all really good friends? I don't
know? You don't know. How do you not know? If you're not
a really good friend? Let me ask you this. Maybe you're saying that
because you don't know how she feels about you. How do you feel about
her? Do you consider her a really good friend? She's a friend,
but not a really good friend. I don't know. You don't know.
How do you not know? I don't know what you mean. I really
could. Oh, y'all really close? No, No, you're not.
No, so y'all you never told her any of your personal business? No,
she ever tell you any of hers No? Do you ever see her
upset? No? She was always a happy person, wouldn't you? Yes?
Why are you acting like this? Stephen? You see how I'm able
to talk in complete sentences. We're having a conversation, but the only thing
you're bringing to the table is that yes, no, or I don't know?
Why is that? Stephen? I don't don't understand. What don't you
understand? I want to be able to help you, Tom, to be
able to communicate with me better than that, Stephen. I feel like we
can help each other. Stephen, did you heard that girl? No?
Do you know where she's at? No? Would you tell me if you
did? Yes? Have you lied to me at all in this interview?
No? Yes, she has, Stephen, she says she have. When
you say you don't know when the last time you clean your bathroom is that's
a lie. When you say you don't know the last time you saw her
coming in out of her apartment and you don't notice whether or not she comes
in and out. That's another lie. Your doors only a few feet from
hers. You've told some lies in this interview, Stephen, without a doubt.
What was the last time you did laundry a few weeks ago? You
ain't washed clothes in a few weeks? Yeah, why, I have a
lot of clothes. No, you don't. That's another lie. That's right,
that's three lives, Stephen. You don't have a lot of clothes.
Yes, you got enough underwear to last you three weeks. Yes? Do
you wear the same pair of underwear the mother one day? Yes? Why?
Because it's still clean enough to awe Steven. I appreciate you coming down
here today, I'm talking to us, Okay. I appreciate you cooperating with
us and and helping us along. But you've lied to me about at least
three things in the same view. And people don't lie as they got something
to hide. Why would you lie to me, Stephen? I didn't lie,
Sure you did. You said you don't even notice when she comes in
and out of her apartment. That's a lie, Stephen, I said,
I didn't remember the last time. Have you ever watched her going on her
apartment? No, you've never How long you have been neighbors three years?
Three years? You've never watched her walk through her front door? Yes?
Five sets? And I said you ever watched her walk into the apartment?
You said no, So I'm gonna ask you again if you ever watched her
walk into her apartment? Yes? When was the last time? How long
time ago? How long for graduation? It's been that long? And you
graduated when man beginning to may in the main middle and you hadn't said her
walk in her apartment since? Now? Did you ever helpercare at groceries and
stuff like that? No? Never, No, you have a helpercare air
laundry. Now. She never needed your help with anything. She asked for
help with the computer. You ever all for help with her for anythink cave
and stuff or anything like that. Yes, that was Stephen. When she
was moving out during the first summer. What did you do? She needed
help moving stuff to her car and you helped her. Yes, so you
went in out of her apartment moving stuff? Yes? How long did you
help her? A few minutes? That's it? Yes. Do you realize
how you're talking right now? Does it not feel weird you now? Would
you say that this is how you talk? All the time. I don't
understand. You're just not expressing yourself. All everything is with you is yes,
No, I don't remember. I don't understand. You can't help me
out with anything. You there's nothing you can tell me to help me about
this beautiful girl right here, Stephen, that was your friend. Nothing.
You're gonna let things go down like this. I don't know what you want.
I want the truth, Stephen. I don't know where she is.
Let me ask you this. I actually believe you don't know where she is
right now? Where was she yesterday? Liar? That's right, you're lie.
At this point, the detectives have given up on Stephen breaking. They
turned the conversation about how no one is going to come see him. They
know that he killed Lauren and the game that he is playing is now over.
You heard that girl, now sure you did. You know it and
I know it. You just don't want to tell us to you and that's
okay, I know it. I just want to give you an opportunity to
tell it so people didn't think you were a monster. You're not a monster,
all you, Steve. Now, I know, buddy, I know
you're not a monster. Tell me what happened. I don't know. You
try to have sex with it. No, she didn't want to have sex
with you. I didn't do it. She didn't want to have sex with
you, Stephen. I don't know. You don't know if she wanted to
have sex with you. I didn't do anything that she did, Steven.
You went into her apartment, Steve, and you hurt that girl. No,
I didn't. You did, buddy, You heard her, Steven,
No, I did that. He did. Why won't you tell me,
Stephen, I didn't do It'll take this with me. You don't deserve and
look at it. Just stay right here, okay, Okay, I appreciate
all your cooperation tonight. Okay. Police would later find many things in Stephen's
apartment that fingered him as the perpetrator in Lauren Gidding's murder. They would find
a hacksall with blood and human remains on it in the supply closet of the
apartment complex Stephen and Lauren lived at. They would find the packaging for that
hacksall in Stephen's apartment. They would also find female underwear, but probably the
most damaging was the video footage found on Stephen McDaniel's computer. Of Lauren's apartment.
The footage was taken outside of Lauren's window and recorded the happenings that was
going on inside. They would also find on Stephen McDaniel's computer child pornography.
Stephen would later confess that he broke into Lauren's apartment with the master key he
had. He was dressed in all black and warm mask. He would enter
her bed room while she slept, and at some point Lauren would wake up
and see the silhouette of someone in her room. Stephen would state that Lauren
told him to get the fuck out. At this Stephen lunged towards Lauren and
grabbed her throat. Lauren, fighting for her life, would fight back,
causing her and Stephen to fall off the bed and onto the floor. Unfortunately,
Lauren's legs would somehow get trapped under her bed and she was unable to
move or kick Stephen. During the struggle, Lauren would rip off his mask
and she would beg him to stop, but Stephen would not. He held
her throat until she stopped moving, and then he would drag Lauren into the
bathroom and put her in the bathtub. At this point, Stephen would state
in his confession that he left Lauren there and would return later with his newly
purchased haxaw. He would then begin the process of dismembering her body, placing
her in trash bags and throwing them into the dumbs. He would also cut
up the mask, glove, and shirt he wore throughout the crime and flushed
them down the toilet. Stephen never expected the police to find Lauren. He
thought her body would be long gone before they started poking around her apartment complex.
He was wrong, because Stephen mc daniel is not as smart as he
thinks he is. Stephen mc daniel would be charged with the murder of Lauren
Giddings in July of two thousand and eleven. Over the course of a few
years, Stephen's trial would be pushed back and moved a handful of times in
an attempt to find an unbiased jury, which would prove to be very difficult.
Finally, in April of two thousand and fourteen, Stephen McDaniel's trial would
be set to begin. However, he would eventually plead guilty to the crime
and accept a plead deal. In a statement, Stephen would fully confess to
the crime of killing and dismembering Lauren Giddings. In exchange, he would receive
life in prison with the possibility of parole in lieu of the death penalty,
which is still legal in Georgia. Stephen mc daniel will be eligible for parole
in two thousand forty one. However, the d A believes that Stephen will
most likely spend the rest of his life in prison. Stephen would say in
a written statement that it is difficult for him to explain why he killed Lauren
and attempted to conceal his deeds the way that he did, and that if
he could take back what happened, he would empty words from an empty man.
In two thousand eighteen, Stephen's father, Mark, would attempt to set
up a gofundmi site for his son's legal fees. Stephen, after spending seven
years in prison, would attempt to get a new trial, believing that his
attorneys did not represent him well enough. This feeble attempt to free himself was
rejected by the judge and the gofundmi site that was set up for him that
was almost immediately shut down for violating the site's rules. Despite all of this,
Lauren Giddings's memory still burns as bright as ever, from memorials to scholarships,
to tournaments and runs in her honor. Whatever Stephen McDaniels intended when he
committed this crime, one thing is for certain. Lauren Gidding's light will never
be sussed out. Her memory lives on and is pushed out into the world
by those who knew and loved her. Thank you for listening to this episode
of The Apex and the Abyss. If you would like to reach out to
the show, please feel free to write an email to Apex and Abyss at
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much for listening to the show and for your support in telling these stories.
Until next time, certain justice, finality, and the answers they deserve.
These are the reasons Lawrence family support my decision to accept Steven McDaniel's guild rather
than py sing to trial. I do not expect Steven McDaniel to ever be
released from prison, even though he has been sentenced to life with the possibility
of role. The terms of this guilty play require that Stephen McDaniels serve thirty
years in prison before he can be first considered for parole in the year two
thousand and forty one. The heinous nature of this crime, confirmed today in
Stephen McDaniel's own words, will follow him into any potential parole hearing. Because
of the detailed admission of guilt, I do not expect any parole board will
ever agree to his release. I fully expect Stephen McDaniel to spend the rest
of his life behind bars. It is my belief that today's sentence and the
specific admission of guilt that accompanied him will allow Laurence family and friends to move
forward with the healing process. My prayers will always