WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:03.399 The topics and opinions expressed on the following show are solely those of the hosts 2 00:00:03.399 --> 00:00:06.639 and their guests, and not those of W four WN Radio It's employees or 3 00:00:06.639 --> 00:00:10.919 affiliates. We make no recommendations or endorsements for radio show programs, services, 4 00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:14.839 or products mentioned on air or on our web. No liability, explicit or 5 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:19.120 implied shall be extended to W four WN Radio It's employees or affiliates. Any 6 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:22.399 questions or common should be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing 7 00:00:22.480 --> 00:00:46.479 W four WN Radio. Hello and welcome to fear Less Fabulous. You. 8 00:00:46.759 --> 00:00:50.359 I am your host, Melanie Young, and you're listening on the Women for 9 00:00:50.479 --> 00:00:55.439 Women Network. You can hear all my shows anytime on ma'am after this live 10 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:00.320 show on about six or more podcast channel, so tune in, follow check 11 00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:03.719 me out on Melanie Fabulous. You know if you food follow me, that 12 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:10.239 I really try to help women take charge of their lives, manage their stress, 13 00:01:10.599 --> 00:01:15.760 live with more healthful attitude and lifestyle, and say no to things that 14 00:01:15.799 --> 00:01:19.480 no longer matter in their life and yes to things that do, and ultimately 15 00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:23.159 live life on your terms. You will, obviously if you follow me, 16 00:01:23.239 --> 00:01:29.319 you know that I've had been dealing with a lot of things in the past 17 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:36.640 couple of years, namely selling my personal belongings and house in New York in 18 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:40.799 twenty twenty during a pandemic, which was kind of interesting living on the road 19 00:01:40.879 --> 00:01:45.000 and a more frugal and simpler life for a year and a half, taking 20 00:01:45.040 --> 00:01:49.480 a pet sitting for a while, and then moving in with my mother to 21 00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:57.959 care for her until she died, and then cleaning out her amazingly cluttered borderline 22 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:04.519 horder house, which took a year and a half and nine days of estate 23 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:08.240 sales, and we still moved here to New Orleans with three storage pods because 24 00:02:08.360 --> 00:02:13.680 we left New York with one storage pod and had sold ninety percent percent of 25 00:02:13.719 --> 00:02:16.960 our possessions. We moved into a house with so much stuff that was twice 26 00:02:17.000 --> 00:02:20.800 the size of our house in New York, moved all our stuff into the 27 00:02:20.840 --> 00:02:24.159 house and lo and behold sold that house, had to liquidate, and are 28 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:29.199 now here in a much smaller house that still has too much stuff. But 29 00:02:29.439 --> 00:02:34.199 we have taken control of things in an amazing way. And people always say 30 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:37.520 to you, how did you do this? Well, it wasn't easy, 31 00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:43.680 And I will tell you that the topic is important because everybody is dealing with 32 00:02:43.759 --> 00:02:47.039 us. Everybody is dealing with either trying to clean up their own life or 33 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:53.039 clean up somebody else's life. I'm serious. Is it is almost I wouldn't 34 00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:57.319 say epidemic, but almost in terms of the way it's unpacking people. And 35 00:02:57.360 --> 00:03:00.199 this is important. It's not about stuff, it's about your mental health. 36 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:06.639 And there are dozens and dozens and dozens of books that talk about cleaning up 37 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:10.080 your life and decluttering and dealing with all the stuff in your life. You 38 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:14.479 can find them online, but there are very few that actually deal with the 39 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:20.000 mental health of decluttering, which is something that's really important to me because I 40 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:24.840 had to declutter my head and get rid of a lot of emotional junk while 41 00:03:24.840 --> 00:03:29.120 I was getting rid of my physical stuff. And so we're going to talk 42 00:03:29.120 --> 00:03:32.960 about that today with somebody who is a specialist in this area. Her name 43 00:03:34.039 --> 00:03:38.000 is Jenny Albertini. She actually has a master's in public health and MPH and 44 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.439 had a really high flying, really kind of fascinating career working for the Center 45 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:50.319 for Disease Control of Prevention in Atlanta. Love those guys dealing with I'll let 46 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:54.599 her explain the area in terms of working with AIDS patients, but she left 47 00:03:54.599 --> 00:04:04.159 it to become a professional organizer to help people organize their life, and she 48 00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:09.960 has a book out called Decluttered, Mindful Organizing for Health, Home and Beyond. 49 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.879 And the fact that it starts with health, then Home and Beyond is 50 00:04:13.919 --> 00:04:18.399 super important because we're going to talk about how the process of decluttering is critical 51 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:25.040 to your mental health. So Jen Albertini, welcome to Fearless Fabulous. You 52 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:31.279 thank you so much, Melanie. So as I noted you, you've been 53 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:38.279 organizing people's lives in different ways through the health system. What were you doing 54 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:41.920 at the CDC, because I want people to know is really amazingly you were 55 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.360 in a really critical area that I think you should share before you decided to 56 00:04:46.399 --> 00:04:51.399 take the leap. Sure. So I started working at the CDC way back 57 00:04:51.439 --> 00:04:57.040 in two thousand and three when they were just opening up a new global AIDS 58 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:02.720 program which became what's known as the Residents Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief, initiating 59 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:08.040 and supporting AIDS programming around the world. So I actually worked on that program 60 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:12.399 in a number of countries. I lived in Zambia, I lived in Swaziland, 61 00:05:12.519 --> 00:05:15.720 I worked in US offices and what I did was. I specialized in 62 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:20.639 HIV prevention and women's health initiatives, such as like working with pregnant women, 63 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:25.759 working on men's reproductive health, and I did that for a long time, 64 00:05:25.839 --> 00:05:30.040 based overseas and really helping figure out with local governments and communities what were the 65 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:35.920 systems and programs that would be most beneficial to combat their HIV epidemics, and 66 00:05:35.959 --> 00:05:41.480 then using the resources of the government and our partners, we could design and 67 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:46.199 implement programs that would help them meet their goals. I remember years ago I 68 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:51.360 interviewed someone who was doing something similar with NGOs and it's hard. It's very 69 00:05:51.360 --> 00:05:56.879 hard because it is I don't think people in the United States realize how serious 70 00:05:56.920 --> 00:06:00.879 the situation is in other countries and particularly in Africa, and a lot of 71 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:03.600 people, a lot of people, you know, because age isn't getting the 72 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:09.800 publicity it got re member came back in the day with Harvey Feerstein and angels 73 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:12.079 in America, it was everywhere, and now it's like over there, but 74 00:06:12.120 --> 00:06:18.399 it's it's it's there still and still very important to acknowledge. Oh, I 75 00:06:18.439 --> 00:06:23.680 totally agree, and so much progress has been made over the last few years, 76 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:27.480 and really I feel very grateful to have been able to work on this 77 00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:30.959 program and have so many colleagues and local governments and communities working on this, 78 00:06:31.240 --> 00:06:34.720 but it is still a challenge. And because it's not you know, a 79 00:06:34.800 --> 00:06:40.800 quote unquote hot topic, anymore, awareness about it dies down, and then 80 00:06:40.879 --> 00:06:45.399 unfortunately funding dies down. That's really sad. You know that, you know 81 00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:50.040 it has to be a hot topic to get funding you which is a whole 82 00:06:50.040 --> 00:06:56.920 other topic. But you made the decision. It says here you were thirty 83 00:06:57.000 --> 00:07:03.920 six at the time to trained with Marie Condo, who wrote you know, 84 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:12.199 she basically was the ultimate expert in streamlining your life and you know, only 85 00:07:12.279 --> 00:07:17.600 keeping things a spark joy and became a phenomenon. What was the impetus to 86 00:07:17.720 --> 00:07:25.000 do this? You know? I had read Marie's book earlier, soon after 87 00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:30.040 I came out in twenty fourteen, and I loved her method and this really 88 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:33.959 structured approach and thinking thoughtfully about what you had, and it was something that 89 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:38.600 I liked helping. You know, I went through and decluttered my own things. 90 00:07:38.639 --> 00:07:42.000 I helped my colleagues, I helped my friends just for fun and so 91 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:46.480 sort of a side project. But then I found myself in twenty sixteen, 92 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:50.120 I was really going through one of these perfect storms, Melanie. I was 93 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:56.360 in a failing relationship, I was in a very challenging work environment, and 94 00:07:56.399 --> 00:08:01.240 I was having health problems with myself, and I just intovely knew something was 95 00:08:01.279 --> 00:08:05.199 wrong and the way I was living my life wasn't feeling good anymore. And 96 00:08:05.319 --> 00:08:09.720 I had this moment that summer where a colleague of mine was getting ready to 97 00:08:09.800 --> 00:08:13.160 move and she asked, and she knew I liked decluttering just for fun, 98 00:08:13.319 --> 00:08:16.680 and she said, Oh, I really wish you could come over during the 99 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.240 week and help me do this to get ready. And I thought, you 100 00:08:18.279 --> 00:08:22.920 know, I would love to do that instead of this job that I'm doing 101 00:08:22.959 --> 00:08:26.839 that's making me miserable. And so it sort of started getting the wheels turning. 102 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:30.879 And then shortly afterwards, Marie actually announced that she was going to start 103 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.759 training people in her method for the very first time. And to me, 104 00:08:33.960 --> 00:08:39.879 that was like a light bulb moment to spark this decision to leave my public 105 00:08:39.919 --> 00:08:46.440 health job and enroll in her first certification program. Now, certification programs like 106 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.799 the thing, you know, there are a lot of them. How what 107 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.720 is her program and how you know what is involved with it, how long 108 00:08:52.759 --> 00:08:58.600 did it take, what was your commitment. So when I took the program, 109 00:08:58.639 --> 00:09:01.399 which was in very first class in summer of twenty sixteen, it was 110 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:07.799 a multi day in person course with Marie and some of her senior trainers from 111 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:13.159 working in Japan, and we learned more in depth about the method, but 112 00:09:13.240 --> 00:09:18.159 also how to basically teach the method to clients we'd be working with and how 113 00:09:18.200 --> 00:09:22.519 to conduct tighting sessions with them. After the in person courses, we had 114 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:28.360 to go through a set number of practice hours with practice clients and do a 115 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.600 lot of documentation about what we were doing, what we were learning, how 116 00:09:31.639 --> 00:09:37.159 the client was transforming. We submitted those reports to Murray's team, they got 117 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:41.279 reviewed a lot of back and forth, and then there was actually a test 118 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.159 too and that you had to pass sort of very specific about that. And 119 00:09:46.200 --> 00:09:50.000 then once you pass all of those things, you become what's called a certified 120 00:09:50.000 --> 00:09:54.679 consultant. And then over the years, as you track more and more client 121 00:09:54.759 --> 00:10:00.519 hours, you move up in levels of ranking until you reach the what's the 122 00:10:00.519 --> 00:10:03.200 top level, which is known as the master level, where you've seen more 123 00:10:03.200 --> 00:10:07.240 spent more than fifteen hundred hours with clients, and so that's you know, 124 00:10:07.279 --> 00:10:13.200 I got to that level several years ago. Now out Yeah, I'm very 125 00:10:13.240 --> 00:10:16.399 curious because there are a lot of coaches and consultants out there, and one 126 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:24.240 of the challenges, as you I'm sure awhere, is getting clients and getting 127 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:30.480 the word out without cluttering their inbox. How do you do that? How 128 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:35.799 do people find you? How do you get build your business? That's such 129 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:39.200 a good question. You know, when I made this leap from working in 130 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:43.120 government public health service to running Mountain business, I had no idea how to 131 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.120 get clients, Melanie. It was not something that was intuitive to me, 132 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:52.000 and I'd never thought of myself as an entrepreneur. But you know, ultimately 133 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:58.759 what I did was I set up a website and talked about the behavior change 134 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:03.080 that I was going to help people achieve by working with me. And that 135 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:07.080 was something that felt familiar because of course I'd been working on behavior change programs 136 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:13.759 for years. They were just focused on HIV programs and prevention programs and things 137 00:11:13.799 --> 00:11:16.679 like that. So I really tried to draw on what I knew a little 138 00:11:16.679 --> 00:11:22.679 bit about human decision making and what can inspire us to want to seek change 139 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:24.519 and want to seek help for things, and over the years. I mean, 140 00:11:24.559 --> 00:11:31.120 I've been fortunate that I've maintained a good website. I'm in good standing 141 00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:33.960 sort of with the different programs I'm a part of. I'm also a certified 142 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:39.879 Professional organizer through the National Association, and so that's all helped me achieve sort 143 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:46.120 of credentials, but also education that I think helps my clients more and more, 144 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:52.039 and then I get referrals through my clients to new people. I'm on 145 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:54.639 your website now, Jenny Albertini dot com. You've got a lot of corporate 146 00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:00.600 clients, which I think is interesting. You know, I'm curious. You 147 00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:03.080 know, we all know how individuals need help, but what what do corporations 148 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.200 come to you for? How do you help them? Because you've got some 149 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:13.960 good ones on Hemmy Marriott, Campari, Campari, Smithsonia and COMPARI very interesting 150 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:18.720 coming from wine and spirits background, So how do you help corporations? So 151 00:12:18.960 --> 00:12:24.559 usually corporations me in to conduct workshops, and what I'll do is I'll teach 152 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:30.320 about the KonMari method. I also teach a really popular one on designing your 153 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:35.000 dream work day, so really which really helps employees identify where their peaks of 154 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:39.480 energy are throughout the day, and then we talk about how to schedule priorities 155 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:43.360 based on that. It also involves a lot of working with your team. 156 00:12:43.399 --> 00:12:46.600 You know, many people in workplaces, they're on teams and groups, and 157 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:52.399 how do you communicate with one another about what's going on in your priority list, 158 00:12:52.559 --> 00:12:56.759 how you can maximize time that you're together and not. The reason why 159 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.840 most companies come to me for sessions is they know, oh, their employees 160 00:13:00.879 --> 00:13:05.440 are struggling with different facets of work life and also their personal life, and 161 00:13:05.519 --> 00:13:11.039 so these sessions are often offered, you know as an HR benefit or workplace 162 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:16.159 wellness situation where they're trying to give their employees, my understanding is a menu 163 00:13:16.279 --> 00:13:20.360 of tools that can help them feel better in their lives. And so I 164 00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:24.519 think decluttering discussions and you know, you've mentioned sort of what you've gone through 165 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.080 with your family, and that's what so many people are dealing with. So 166 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:33.759 we also talk about that when you're navigating different ages and levels of clutter and 167 00:13:35.039 --> 00:13:39.000 attachment styles. And so I really enjoy speaking to companies and groups because I 168 00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:43.960 think it helps me reach a lot of people at once and really spark ideas 169 00:13:43.960 --> 00:13:48.559 for people about you know, I give them takeaways for how they can implement 170 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.840 change in their life. Kind of right away. I think these are all 171 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:56.679 great points. And you know, clutter, as I said at the beginning, 172 00:13:56.799 --> 00:13:58.759 and you really underscore in your book, it's as mental as much as 173 00:13:58.799 --> 00:14:03.200 fit. And you discussed in your book Declutter that one of the more difficult 174 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:05.960 parts of writing the book has been recognizing reckoning how to describe the levels of 175 00:14:07.000 --> 00:14:11.120 suffering. I see people faced with clutter. I think a lot of people 176 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:16.559 suffer with their clutter. It's interesting, Rick, please me as I said 177 00:14:16.559 --> 00:14:22.279 my mother, I've been very vocal about what I went through. She was 178 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:26.399 a borderline hoarder. She actually went on Doctor Phil to be cured for her 179 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:31.200 incessant love of purple and having to buy everything purple. And on the show 180 00:14:31.519 --> 00:14:33.240 he said, several years ago, he said, you don't have a problem 181 00:14:33.320 --> 00:14:39.600 with the color purple. You are a borderline hoarder. And that was quite 182 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:43.039 some time ago, and it only got worse for some reasons that you actually 183 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:46.960 talk about in the book. You reference the widow who, after her husband 184 00:14:46.039 --> 00:14:52.200 dies, just surrounds her stuff with stuff, and that sparked a reality for 185 00:14:52.279 --> 00:14:56.080 me, Jenny, that as when my father died in two thousand and nine. 186 00:14:56.559 --> 00:14:58.720 There was already a shopping problem and a clutter problem, but it got 187 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.759 war, it became stepped into the hoarderdom. And she wrote an article, 188 00:15:05.000 --> 00:15:09.240 the last article, well besides her farewell column in her newspaper, the last 189 00:15:09.360 --> 00:15:16.879 article she wrote, and she was a She wrote a column was comfort clutter 190 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.480 and how surrounding well Marie Condo people sparked joy for deg cluttering. She found 191 00:15:22.519 --> 00:15:28.399 clutter brought joy into her life and happy memories. And that's when when I 192 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.399 thought about it and read the book. You talk about the widow and it 193 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:33.759 kind of aha, that's what she was doing. As I was trying to 194 00:15:33.759 --> 00:15:37.480 declutter her life. She was like, no, don't get rid of a 195 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:41.080 lot of older people want to hang on to everything because it's all they have 196 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:46.240 left. Oh that is so true. And you know, I'm sure there's 197 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.639 article really captured that. And that's what I tried to express in the book 198 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.399 because I see that so often unfortunately, you know, clutter becomes the barrier 199 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:00.360 between what we want out of life and what we are afraid to sort of 200 00:16:00.759 --> 00:16:06.759 let go of, which is oftentimes these emotions, these memories of people who 201 00:16:06.759 --> 00:16:10.519 have left, or of situations in our life who have left. And so 202 00:16:10.559 --> 00:16:14.159 when I talk in the book about these different levels of suffering, you know, 203 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:19.759 we have some people who approach clutter as you know, it's a problem 204 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.399 of how their home exists on a daily basis, and once they clear the 205 00:16:23.480 --> 00:16:29.360 counters or the shelves, they feel fine. But sometimes that problem is going 206 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:33.879 much deeper. And I really try and express in the book different ways that 207 00:16:33.960 --> 00:16:40.000 people can get at what's really driving their emotions and how to address them in 208 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:44.399 different ways. And sometimes addressing them is through working with someone like myself, 209 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.279 a professional organizer. Sometimes it's working with a therapist or a team. We're 210 00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:56.000 really just having more open, difficult, sometimes conversations with family members about what 211 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.919 they're doing and how we can help them really move along the gradient of grief, 212 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:06.920 processing and suffering and recognizing ultimately how do they want to live and can 213 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:11.720 we help them achieve that through the reduction, sometimes very slowly, of what's 214 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:15.119 going on around them. I think clutter is a berry, but it's also 215 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.920 a crutch. I've seen it, you know, I referenced, you know, 216 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:22.799 my mother's experience was everybody you know, my mother in law right now, 217 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:27.200 you know, my husband's younger, and he doesn't like to let go 218 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.119 of things either. And you know, you know, we had you know, 219 00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:36.519 the when Harry met Sally the wagon wheel fight, as we as we 220 00:17:37.480 --> 00:17:41.559 you know, this is kind of what happened. My home that was in 221 00:17:41.599 --> 00:17:48.000 the country became filled with clutter to the point where I was miserable. I 222 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:51.519 felt I felt burdened by my club. I've been very vocal, but it 223 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:55.680 quoted on it to the point where I actually wanted to sell the house. 224 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.000 I was angry, so I had a lot of issues, and I was 225 00:17:59.039 --> 00:18:03.119 angry at my husband for bringing all his clutter and his family's clutter, and 226 00:18:03.160 --> 00:18:07.240 his grandparents' clutter, and Aunt Mildred's ugly rug and all the clutter he brought 227 00:18:07.279 --> 00:18:11.319 from his storage units into my abode, my pay my palace. And it 228 00:18:11.359 --> 00:18:15.359 got to the point where I threw everything out and said, I'm getting rid 229 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.160 of all. I'm done. This is the only way I can deal with 230 00:18:18.160 --> 00:18:19.400 this, this escape is to sell on and get rid of it and start 231 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:22.559 over. And it was great. The happiest years of my life are living 232 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.279 on the road with this stuff until I had to move back in with my 233 00:18:26.319 --> 00:18:30.400 mother and it was like the descent into hoarder hell started again. So it 234 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.279 really can and I can say to this listener is it can really affect your 235 00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.599 mental health, which is why you have to get to the root of the 236 00:18:37.640 --> 00:18:44.880 problem and clean out the anger and grief and frustration that goes with the physical 237 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:48.640 stuff around it, and you do a lot of talking. You really encourage 238 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.799 journaling in your book. Why do you feel this as critical as part of 239 00:18:53.799 --> 00:19:03.119 the process. Journaling really gives readers the space to look inward and get to 240 00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:07.599 those underlying issues that you just mentioned that I repeat over and over in the 241 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.920 book, to figure out for themselves what's really going on. You know, 242 00:19:11.039 --> 00:19:15.119 if you're in person with someone like me, I'm going to be asking questions, 243 00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:18.000 We're going to be trying to get at it. But through a book, 244 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:22.000 I think that journaling offers that same type of back and forth. You're 245 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:27.319 just having it with yourself. So the prompts guy are guiding people to find 246 00:19:27.400 --> 00:19:33.680 their own voice and then identify what their goals are to change it. You 247 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:38.279 know, many people that I've worked with have struggled with feeling empowered or disempowered 248 00:19:38.279 --> 00:19:45.000 around making decisions about their stuff, oftentimes from experiences like you describe such as 249 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.079 having lived with parents who had hoarding problems, or with partners who view the 250 00:19:49.119 --> 00:19:55.279 accumulation of stuff differently, and they bottle all of those feelings up. So 251 00:19:55.400 --> 00:20:00.359 in this practice like journaling, you're able to hopefully personally and get some of 252 00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:07.000 those feelings out. And I'm trying to offer a pathway through these exercises to 253 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:11.400 kind of identify what's going on, figure out some solutions, and then offer 254 00:20:11.519 --> 00:20:15.880 some ideas that you can write through and action items so that you can make 255 00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:21.200 some change. You know, this is based a lot on research that shows 256 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:25.880 that when one of the ways that we can integrate new habits and processes is 257 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:32.759 by repeatedly writing things down or even making art about them. So doing something 258 00:20:32.799 --> 00:20:36.839 with your hands, experiencing something in a different way really, you know, 259 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:41.759 lights your brain up so that you're experiencing the problem and hopefully the solution in 260 00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:45.240 a new, different way. And I thought this was important to do because, 261 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.359 as you mentioned at the top of the hour, there are dozens of 262 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:53.519 books about decluttering out there, and a lot of them focus on this is 263 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.960 how we set up this shelf, this is how we fold in this way 264 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:00.799 to have an organized thing, and those are, and I you know, 265 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.079 I read those also and recommend them, but I wanted this to be different 266 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:10.000 because I think people aren't spending enough time doing this deeper work so that they 267 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.119 can have more sustainable change over time. And I get it. I mean 268 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:18.799 it's hard to sit down with your feelings and right through experiences maybe you had 269 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.680 in your childhood or tension you have in your relationship about this. But I 270 00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:30.440 was hopeful that these exercises and journal prompts let people feel safe enough to do 271 00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:34.400 this for themselves. Absolutely, and you know, I'm going to be clear 272 00:21:34.440 --> 00:21:38.559 to everybody listening. It is a bigger It can be bigger than you can 273 00:21:38.640 --> 00:21:42.400 handle. And that's where you do need to talk to somebody and get help, 274 00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.799 which is whether it's a coach or mental health professional or talk to somebody 275 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:49.920 because it, you know, the hardness thing for many people. Well, 276 00:21:49.960 --> 00:21:52.079 first of all, you talk about before I get to that, do you 277 00:21:52.119 --> 00:22:00.079 talk about two categories of clutter? Explain that two categories? Yeah, you 278 00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:06.599 say, the two categories of clutter A clutter the noun a collection, a 279 00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:10.240 disorganizer, and wanted and use unloved, and clutter is also a verb. 280 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:15.599 And you talk about the brain condition. You know, there are you know, 281 00:22:15.640 --> 00:22:18.240 there are people who yes, and then and then you go on to 282 00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:22.839 I mean there's a whole aspect of it, and the and the stigma around 283 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:29.920 and everything, so some people just can't focus yes. And you know there's 284 00:22:30.359 --> 00:22:33.799 in my very like public health brain. When I was matrixinging all of these 285 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:41.000 underlying issues and causes, I tried to identify different ways to think about clutter. 286 00:22:41.079 --> 00:22:42.640 So for for the first one you brought up, absolutely, you know, 287 00:22:42.720 --> 00:22:47.559 clutter is just the noun of it is all the stuff that's around you, 288 00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:52.440 right, but the verb is the doing of the It's the too many 289 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.200 things on your to do list, it's the too many priorities. It's the 290 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.599 people overload that you're trying to keep up with communicating stuff like that. And 291 00:23:00.599 --> 00:23:03.000 that's just really meant to frame for people, Hey, there's different ways we 292 00:23:03.079 --> 00:23:07.319 can think about it. And because this book is a little bit more expansive, 293 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.359 I wanted people to be open minded about how I was going to use 294 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:14.079 clutter as a word. Now, the other piece you mentioned, the brain 295 00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:18.000 based conditions and are part of the health chapter. You know, I break 296 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.039 things into health, home and beyond, and within health, brain based conditions 297 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:30.359 are really those cognitive and biological features that some people experience that change our ability 298 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:37.519 to usually start, follow through and finish projects or problems related to clutter, 299 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.480 and that has a lot to do with executive functioning. So some examples of 300 00:23:41.559 --> 00:23:48.079 those are things like attention deficit challenges, depression, traumatic brain injuries can cause 301 00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.079 challenges and this year also and these are things that you know, we we 302 00:23:53.200 --> 00:24:00.000 try, i think in more recent years, not to shame people for things 303 00:24:00.160 --> 00:24:04.519 like mental challenges. However, there are mental health issues. However, there's 304 00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:11.000 still a lot of shame around living a cluttered life or having clutter in your 305 00:24:11.039 --> 00:24:14.359 home. And this comes, you know, for many reasons. You know, 306 00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:18.880 we're constantly bombarded on social media and on television of you know, quote 307 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:26.400 unquote picture perfect homes and latest styles of things in those images are represent something 308 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:32.519 that you would consider a decluttered space. And so when people who are experiencing 309 00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.440 challenges with maintaining that, they feel like they should have been able to do 310 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.759 that when in reality and trying to get across that, we need to take 311 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:48.079 out the words should from this. Some of us are just have greater difficulty 312 00:24:48.440 --> 00:24:53.440 doing certain tasks or feel more aggravated by, for instance, the volume of 313 00:24:53.480 --> 00:24:59.240 clutter because of other issues going on. This also can come I'm sorry, 314 00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:03.000 go ahead, Yeah, no, you're absolutely right about this. And what 315 00:25:03.039 --> 00:25:04.960 I was gonna say is, you know, overwhelmed is a term. I 316 00:25:06.039 --> 00:25:10.000 was having an email exchange with somebody this morning because I'm trying to get rid 317 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:11.359 of twenty boxes of books and he was going to buy three of them, 318 00:25:11.359 --> 00:25:14.640 but he's overwhelmed. You can't think about it right now. I'm like, 319 00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:18.880 oh God, here's the O word. Overwhelmed. Everybody's overwhelmed. And I 320 00:25:18.880 --> 00:25:22.960 think it got worse during the pandemic because everybody was at home, so talk 321 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:26.279 about being clattered. Suddenly you're in your home, which is your safe space, 322 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:30.480 and now it's your workspace, your children's play space, your husband's hanging 323 00:25:30.559 --> 00:25:33.599 around if he's not there all the time, if you're not already in a 324 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:40.359 home based business. And I think people started to feel squeezed during the pandemic 325 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.400 and accumulated a lot of stuff during the pandemic because they felt they needed to 326 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:51.359 get the holoton or whatever, and now people are trying to break free of 327 00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:56.519 a lot of it. Have you noticed that with your clients somewhat. I 328 00:25:56.559 --> 00:26:00.559 would say, you know, that pandemic squeeze that you talk talk about, 329 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:04.960 it was the stuff, It was the environments, and it was so much 330 00:26:06.799 --> 00:26:11.599 of medical emergency, work crisis, family crisis, caring about all the people. 331 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:15.839 So that's really that like mental clutter on overdrive too that you consider. 332 00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:21.039 So that's really hard, and if you were living in a space where you 333 00:26:21.119 --> 00:26:25.960 didn't feel supported, where you felt too crowded by stuff, your problem with 334 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.440 clutter was probably going to get worse. As you say I have had, 335 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:34.599 I will say, it's not like there's been a huge increase of clients I've 336 00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:41.240 seen or talked to who had that increase in shopping habits during the pandemic. 337 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:47.000 That's you know, either you kind of had that issue challenge or you dealt 338 00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:49.640 with it pretty quickly. But I had a lot more people that became aware 339 00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:55.519 of their baseline level of clutter and they were like, oh, this, 340 00:26:55.519 --> 00:27:00.079 this isn't good enough anymore, because now that I'm faced with this emergency situation 341 00:27:00.119 --> 00:27:04.559 and I can't handle maintaining the stuff that was just around me on a regular 342 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:08.720 basis, so I want to better handle on it that So that should another 343 00:27:08.799 --> 00:27:14.799 pandemic arrive. Should another crisis come up, I feel better able and more 344 00:27:14.880 --> 00:27:18.759 supported from my environment to address it because I'm not spending all my time trying 345 00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:22.640 to find the thirty packs of toilet paper that we're hidden throughout the house. 346 00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:30.839 Yeah, you know, my mother had more than fifty violet saran wraps because 347 00:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.480 you'd love the color parbal so. Which brings me to a couple of things. 348 00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:37.640 Here's the opportunity so I used. You know, I believe in challenges 349 00:27:37.680 --> 00:27:44.039 become opportunities. That's kind of my thing. And I use the opportunity to 350 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:49.720 declutter my life twice now in twice in four years. Think about that. 351 00:27:51.440 --> 00:27:53.839 So two homes, two sets of estate sales, two sets of you know, 352 00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.079 and while I was during a pandemic and one was dealing with after the 353 00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:02.839 alphamath of a death of someone who beloved in my former community. I use 354 00:28:02.920 --> 00:28:04.079 it as a way to make money, you know, so I love to 355 00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:10.400 make money in my sleep. I actually business was slow. You don't make 356 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.519 a lot of money podcasting or writing. So I turned it into a business 357 00:28:15.519 --> 00:28:21.400 opportunity and I became, you know, like I became obsessed with pricing everything 358 00:28:21.519 --> 00:28:23.000 and figuring out way to sell it, and people thought I was crazy, 359 00:28:23.079 --> 00:28:29.000 but you know, I sold every single one of those saran wraps a dollar 360 00:28:29.119 --> 00:28:33.079 apiece, a dollar apiece, and it was just it just started adding up, 361 00:28:33.119 --> 00:28:37.480 you know. And you write about that in one of your blog posts 362 00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:45.039 on your website about turning your stuff into cash do good while you're deg cluttering, 363 00:28:45.119 --> 00:28:49.039 and I've talked about that as well. This is a great opportunity to 364 00:28:49.160 --> 00:28:53.559 take what you have make a little cash. You do have to look at 365 00:28:53.599 --> 00:28:59.200 the time time versus opportunity, because you could spend a lot of money trying 366 00:28:59.200 --> 00:29:03.559 to sell zeff free talig Pepe. You have to decide what's worth and on 367 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:07.440 and then you can donate the rest or do swaps. I do you know 368 00:29:07.440 --> 00:29:11.000 a lot of swapping of things. You could do stuff with schools. There's 369 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:15.400 a lot of ways to take your stuff and repurpose it or provide it for 370 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:22.880 someone else and feel good about it. Oh absolutely, I love that. 371 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.559 And what's key to me with when I'm helping clients figure out what they want 372 00:29:27.559 --> 00:29:32.480 to sell versus what they want to donate, is what is your time worth? 373 00:29:32.880 --> 00:29:37.039 And so we really want to try and focus first for people on the 374 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.920 high value items because that's you know, you're getting the most for your money 375 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:48.079 out of that, and then really try and look at different opportunities wherever you 376 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:52.039 are in your city for sharing and passing on other things. I live in 377 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:59.559 Washington, d C. There are great charities and nonprofits that accept gently use 378 00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:03.480 items. There are craft centers that do craft swaps with you know, people's 379 00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:10.880 unused materials, and there a variety of free cycle and offer up and things 380 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:14.079 like that. So you know, really there's I think that there is a 381 00:30:14.119 --> 00:30:19.039 way to share or sell or donate just about everything that is in good condition. 382 00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:22.720 You know, at a certain point we do just have to accept that 383 00:30:22.799 --> 00:30:27.400 sometimes things have lived their life, they're not useful anymore, and then we 384 00:30:27.480 --> 00:30:32.920 want to try and find as environmentally friendly as possible a way to dispose of 385 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:36.759 things exactly. It was a lot harder during the pandemic. Let me just 386 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:41.359 say that Jenny, nobody wanted myselff. It was really awful. It was 387 00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.400 a lot easier when I was in cheddoa Tennessee doing it, and a bit 388 00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:48.759 harder here in New Orleans because you don't want people to come into your house. 389 00:30:49.559 --> 00:30:52.400 You have to It's a bit different everywhere you have to know your market, 390 00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.799 you have to know it. And I've paid, I've really paired back 391 00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:02.240 and focus on selling what we have to sell. Let's just say that that 392 00:31:02.279 --> 00:31:07.680 we because we make a conscious decision when people were the bottom feeders were showing 393 00:31:07.759 --> 00:31:11.920 up at like a State Selle day number four and it became really like how 394 00:31:11.920 --> 00:31:14.640 low can you go? And I said, I'm feeling pretty low about this 395 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:17.920 way right now because I really like this stuff and I really don't want to 396 00:31:17.920 --> 00:31:22.599 sell to you for nothing. I made some decisions to take what it still 397 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:27.400 did spark joy with me, and I'm glad I did because I have it. 398 00:31:27.480 --> 00:31:30.240 It's all I have left because I got rid of everything else. But 399 00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.640 you know, I also live every day knowing that a hurricane could blow this 400 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:40.039 all away, and I think about that every day and learn. Yet you 401 00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:44.880 can't just can't get attached to too many things, guys. And one thing 402 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:48.160 about that too, Melanie, is with the kon Mauri method, when people 403 00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:52.720 are going through the process, we really try and think of it as by 404 00:31:52.839 --> 00:31:56.839 when do you want to be finished? Because if you're doing the kon Marii 405 00:31:56.920 --> 00:32:00.759 tidying session, you know you're going through category by category, but it's not 406 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:06.039 your daily tidying, so someone you know, sort of like middle of summer. 407 00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:07.440 Now, I have people who are like, ah, I want to 408 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:10.920 be done by the end of summer. So to me, that also means 409 00:32:12.119 --> 00:32:15.799 the disposal of the items that we're going through by the end of summer. 410 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.039 So I'll say to people, Okay, you want to sell some of these 411 00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:22.680 clothes that you've decided you're going to declutter, you know on poshmark that's a 412 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:28.519 popular clothing resale site, for instance, What can we put into your calendar 413 00:32:28.759 --> 00:32:32.079 so that let's say you're doing two hours of that a week and by the 414 00:32:32.319 --> 00:32:37.200 but you only have until the end of August to do this, so you 415 00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:40.480 know it, whatever sells by that point, wonderful, that's great. But 416 00:32:40.519 --> 00:32:44.720 we're trying to make a commitment that at the end of the summer you're going 417 00:32:44.759 --> 00:32:49.400 to just donate the rest of the items, because what you're choosing is the 418 00:32:49.519 --> 00:32:53.279 piece of being done with this project, so that you are not going, 419 00:32:53.519 --> 00:32:58.400 you know, into the next phase of your life or the next season with 420 00:32:58.519 --> 00:33:01.119 that stuff still hanging over your head. Now. Of course, the timelines 421 00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:06.799 are different for everyone, and sometimes they're motivated by a move or the need 422 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:09.799 to sell a house or something like that. But we're really trying to push 423 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:15.720 because we want you to feel that change and experience what it's like to have 424 00:33:15.759 --> 00:33:20.440 that freedom that you describe of being done with the project of living with less 425 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:24.200 and having so much more time and flexibility in your life. Well, I'm 426 00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:28.119 looking to the left and I see boxes. I'm looking behind me, I 427 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:32.680 see you know, I've laid down deadlines with my husband, who doesn't like 428 00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:37.880 to get rid of things as much as I do. It's like dieting. 429 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.480 Everybody. You have a goal to lose twenty pounds, and you have a 430 00:33:42.519 --> 00:33:45.039 goal to do it by a certain time. You got to get started, 431 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:46.799 you got to stay on a schedule, and you've got to be very structured. 432 00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:52.720 And you know, I think you said something really important, allocate I'm 433 00:33:52.759 --> 00:33:55.920 a big allocator and chunking your day. And you know, I'll say I'm 434 00:33:55.920 --> 00:33:59.920 going to spend two hours doing this, and then I'm putting it away. 435 00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:02.440 Two hours on this, and I'm putting it away and I and I do 436 00:34:02.519 --> 00:34:07.719 that. It's I call it chunking. And you talk about that set goals 437 00:34:07.760 --> 00:34:10.519 on how many hours you're gonna do it, because listen, it can take 438 00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:16.599 a long time to do Poshmark, Facebook, market Place even, you know, 439 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.840 pick maybe two things that you want to do, you know, do 440 00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:25.920 and and really go for the biggest, bulkiest and most expensive stuff to get 441 00:34:25.960 --> 00:34:29.760 it out of the way, because like I said, you can spend a 442 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:31.400 lot of time selling. You know, I sold the box of crayons for 443 00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:37.159 six dollars you know, wow. But you know how about that twelve hundred 444 00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:42.639 dollars Pisa jewelry, right, so you got it. Prioritize, I mean, 445 00:34:42.719 --> 00:34:45.960 right now I'm working on the bulky stuff. I've got twenty books, 446 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:52.239 twenty boxes. I'm down to eighteen now of civil war books. And I 447 00:34:52.400 --> 00:34:57.280 have set a goal of when I'm going to you know, the collections I'm 448 00:34:57.280 --> 00:35:00.039 going to sell and I'm targeted who because that there were you know, quite 449 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:04.559 a bit of money and everything else is going bye bye to be donated. 450 00:35:05.440 --> 00:35:07.440 And I've set a goal of when i want to see those boxes out, 451 00:35:08.119 --> 00:35:12.679 and I've done that with other things. And if you don't set that goal 452 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:16.880 and timeline, this stuff is just going to like linger and gather moth holes 453 00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:22.239 and dust. And as I said to my husband, as God is my 454 00:35:22.320 --> 00:35:24.079 witness, when I move out, as I've said to Betty people, when 455 00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:28.199 I move out of this this house, it's going to be in a lot 456 00:35:28.280 --> 00:35:31.760 smaller when potentially an urn and my stuff is going with me. So I've 457 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.440 I've really laid down the law. And you have to think about that, 458 00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:40.079 particularly when you're reaching toward your later in life lights and you don't have children, 459 00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:44.320 or you don't want to burden your children with all your stuff. Because 460 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:45.760 my mother used to cackle, go, oh, yes, your problem, 461 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:50.679 and it was my problem. But I turned my problem into an opportunity and 462 00:35:50.719 --> 00:35:52.639 I made some money and that was a good thing. I felt good, 463 00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.840 right, So you got to figure out how you're going to make it work 464 00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.840 for you in the way you want it and their timeline, and I think 465 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:04.440 that that's really important. I have a question for you. So everybody says, 466 00:36:04.719 --> 00:36:10.159 you know, I hate to let go of all my photos, my 467 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.079 memories, the love letter I can tell you right now, I seem to 468 00:36:15.159 --> 00:36:17.199 have even though I said throw them out, there's four boxes of all this 469 00:36:17.280 --> 00:36:21.760 stuff and two from New York. And I'm like, now, what is 470 00:36:21.800 --> 00:36:23.800 the best way to deal with that? When you have all those photos and 471 00:36:24.000 --> 00:36:29.159 you know the love letters you find from your parents and grandparents, what really 472 00:36:29.199 --> 00:36:32.239 matters? And why keep it? And what have the better ways to do 473 00:36:32.400 --> 00:36:38.000 something with it? You know, why keep it is such a personal question. 474 00:36:38.199 --> 00:36:44.800 And some people keep them because they remember the events, they remember the 475 00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:49.280 people, they love to look through them, things like that. But often 476 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:52.960 those all those boxes of photos are just staying as boxes of photos. It's 477 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:58.800 not right. People are routinely going through them and stuff. So with my 478 00:36:58.960 --> 00:37:01.679 clients when we're doing photos, you know, the first thing is to really 479 00:37:01.719 --> 00:37:07.440 identify what are the types of photos or events that you're looking to save, 480 00:37:07.639 --> 00:37:09.639 right, Like, what are the memories that are much more than you know. 481 00:37:09.639 --> 00:37:14.119 I have a client who said, you know what, the birthday parties 482 00:37:14.320 --> 00:37:17.079 were such an important part of my life. I want to save photos of 483 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:22.440 the birthday parties. And so what we did is we sorted by year and 484 00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.559 party, and she kept just a couple of each of each party and for 485 00:37:25.639 --> 00:37:30.280 each year, and so she was better able to let go of the other 486 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:34.320 stuff because she was focused on what, you know, this priority was the 487 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:37.719 party. So we're always trying to look for like what's what's the one when 488 00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:40.599 that you know, you know is going to help you feel like you've saved 489 00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:45.000 enough of something that was truly important, And then we think about how do 490 00:37:45.079 --> 00:37:51.280 you want to experience this? Do you want to have a really nice album 491 00:37:51.639 --> 00:37:54.599 on your coffee table and when family or friends come over, you're going to 492 00:37:54.679 --> 00:37:59.480 share that material? Okay, then let's go ahead and make this. And 493 00:37:59.559 --> 00:38:02.920 I mean, these days, there's a million ways to get an album made 494 00:38:04.039 --> 00:38:08.440 or get something pretty done that you would like aesthetically when people make memory boxes 495 00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:13.079 and shadow boxes and things like that, So we're trying to hone in on 496 00:38:13.199 --> 00:38:15.920 like, what's the point of you keeping it and how are you going to 497 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.800 enjoy having it? And once people start to keep some of those, it's 498 00:38:20.840 --> 00:38:23.679 a little easier to let go of them. But photos can take ages to 499 00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:30.119 go through and are really hard. So I like one tool that's sort of 500 00:38:30.159 --> 00:38:34.440 like a clear plastic box that's got these like little cassette tape type things in 501 00:38:34.519 --> 00:38:37.840 it, and you sort by you know, event or year or whatnot, 502 00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:43.719 and once you reach the limit of photos that'll stay in that cassette tape, 503 00:38:43.920 --> 00:38:47.480 that's that's it. So it's giving you a guard rail of how many photos 504 00:38:47.480 --> 00:38:51.400 you can keep of any one thing. And I think in general, that's 505 00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:54.800 a good practice. It's the same idea. If you've got chest of drawers 506 00:38:54.800 --> 00:39:00.679 that's got five drawers in it, let that be your limit of what you're 507 00:39:00.760 --> 00:39:05.039 keeping clothing wise in there. And yes you could go a little above, 508 00:39:05.199 --> 00:39:07.320 Yes you could go a little below, but we're looking for ways to train 509 00:39:07.440 --> 00:39:13.639 you to be okay with just enough exactly. And I use this. I 510 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.599 do the clear plastic boxes. My mother seemed to have put all her shoes 511 00:39:15.599 --> 00:39:20.039 in them, so I repurpose them. I'm big on repurposing. I'm actually 512 00:39:20.079 --> 00:39:23.440 turning a lot of things for therapy into art projects. So I found all 513 00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:28.239 their credit cards, like sixty credit cards, so I'm going to cut them 514 00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.639 up and create collages. I found, you know, hundreds of postage stamps, 515 00:39:30.599 --> 00:39:34.400 so I'm like, hey, my posting stamp's gonna be worth a lot 516 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.559 of money, right, you know, No, they're not okay, So 517 00:39:36.639 --> 00:39:38.760 I'm going to create colagos out of them. So I'm using a lot of 518 00:39:38.800 --> 00:39:44.440 that, and which leads me to just because you don't want to think about 519 00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:52.280 schools, I donated a lot to libraries and schools in Tennessee because they use 520 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:55.760 these things for art projects. So if it may be junk to you. 521 00:39:57.239 --> 00:40:04.440 But photographs, post cards, greeting cards, all that can be used as 522 00:40:04.719 --> 00:40:09.880 art projects in schools, and I encourage you to think about you know, 523 00:40:09.960 --> 00:40:16.519 I made a list of local nonprofits and I contacted them and the deal was, 524 00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:21.559 you know, whoever comes and picks up the stuff gets it. And 525 00:40:22.000 --> 00:40:25.400 it worked really well. I donated a lot of stuff to public schools and 526 00:40:25.559 --> 00:40:30.719 libraries and it really made me feel good. I didn't care about the tax 527 00:40:31.039 --> 00:40:35.920 that. I just wanted it to go out the door. And you know, 528 00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:39.039 like I said, I sold the fifty dollars worth of ceram wrap. 529 00:40:39.039 --> 00:40:43.320 It didn't cost me anything. I just had it at the checkout at the 530 00:40:43.480 --> 00:40:45.599 Estate Selle and people kept buying the stupid seram wrap. I had no idea, 531 00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:51.159 so you just kind of make it work. But the other thing is 532 00:40:51.760 --> 00:40:55.159 we talked about pictures, and the other one is books. People don't, 533 00:40:55.239 --> 00:41:00.840 you know, seem to collect a lot of books, and there's some great 534 00:41:00.840 --> 00:41:08.480 ways to repurpose books, right for repurposing books for like our tell me all 535 00:41:08.480 --> 00:41:12.760 the books you've collected over the years. You know, what are some things 536 00:41:12.760 --> 00:41:15.920 to you would suggest for people who don't want to have hundreds of books on 537 00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:23.199 hand. Oh, honestly, Melanie, I suggest donation. There are different 538 00:41:23.320 --> 00:41:30.679 services at least in our area that will do free pickups and they'll do donations 539 00:41:30.760 --> 00:41:35.679 for things. There's a prisoner program books for prisoners in the area, and 540 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:39.639 so a lot of books for my clients go through that way. Sometimes the 541 00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:45.800 libraries will take certain types of books. I will say with any nonprofit school 542 00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:52.000 library, very often in their donation website links they'll say what types of books 543 00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:53.719 they want, and so I always try and be sort of, you know, 544 00:41:53.760 --> 00:41:59.920 as specific as possible. There are a few companies and bookstores that will 545 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:06.079 sales, but oftentimes it's it's just sort of the general donation sites or local 546 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:10.280 books swapped sites and events. We have those in town also, So those 547 00:42:10.280 --> 00:42:14.920 are the typical sort of books. I mean, just last weekend a client 548 00:42:14.960 --> 00:42:20.159 of mine had eighteen boxes of books picked up. Mm hmm. That gets 549 00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:23.639 that deals with a lot of space you've just decluttered, right, Oh, 550 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:30.239 absolutely, And you know it's a couple and they you know, love books, 551 00:42:30.320 --> 00:42:35.800 write books or academics. They'd had hundreds and hundreds of books throughout their 552 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.599 homes and they love them, but they recognize they didn't need all of them, 553 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:44.199 and they didn't want to leave it for their kids to have to make 554 00:42:44.239 --> 00:42:47.000 the decision, Oh what was important for mom and dad to keep. So 555 00:42:47.039 --> 00:42:52.639 they made that decision now and they still have books on their bookshelves, they 556 00:42:52.719 --> 00:42:55.400 still have things to read. Things like that. They just were able to 557 00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:58.599 go through the books and say, oh, you know what, I read 558 00:42:58.599 --> 00:43:00.559 that book once. I don't need to read it again. It's still in 559 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.079 good shape. Why don't I donate it and someone else can enjoy it? 560 00:43:05.159 --> 00:43:07.960 And it was a really at first they were worried about doing it. But 561 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:14.159 after a few sessions of doing deep decluttering work like this, you'll feel more 562 00:43:14.239 --> 00:43:17.599 empowered to go into those hard categories, which you know, in books is 563 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:22.880 often a category that people are like, oh, this equates to me being 564 00:43:22.000 --> 00:43:25.320 educated and well read, and how I can't let go of any of my 565 00:43:25.360 --> 00:43:29.440 books. But once you start going through them one by one, you realize 566 00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:37.079 that we can separate your personal identity from the particular items we ended up. 567 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:42.800 You know, Toothy, I had a huge library, and my parents were 568 00:43:42.840 --> 00:43:45.239 both authors and collectors, and on and on. I mean, can't image 569 00:43:45.320 --> 00:43:49.880 hundreds and hundreds of books I actually had. Someone I was lucky, I 570 00:43:49.920 --> 00:43:54.519 knew this person. He's a book Uh, he's a book specialist and I 571 00:43:54.559 --> 00:43:59.679 know him through family connections with Juniper Books. That's your why. And he 572 00:43:59.840 --> 00:44:01.639 was doing a project in Tennessee and I wrote him, I said, I 573 00:44:01.679 --> 00:44:05.599 really would like you to come look at these books. I need someone to 574 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.760 tell me what I have that could be of value. And frankly, it 575 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:13.000 was the best time spent with him. He went through. And so if 576 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:16.360 you have anything that could potentially be valuable, get a book specialist in if 577 00:44:16.400 --> 00:44:21.679 you can do it, because he ended up identifying books. Frankly, I 578 00:44:21.679 --> 00:44:24.920 would have liked silver. Nothing and the books silver like six thousand dollars a 579 00:44:25.000 --> 00:44:30.880 set. Okay, So I've you know. So he went through and I 580 00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:35.320 just emailed him before the show because I have a first edition. So if 581 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.440 you you know, be careful because you may have stuff that is valuable. 582 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:44.079 So get people in who know, get experts in. If you have any 583 00:44:45.079 --> 00:44:49.079 doubt before you just start going willy nilly donating here or there. It is 584 00:44:49.199 --> 00:44:53.159 worth it to spend the money, allow the time, let them pick to 585 00:44:53.280 --> 00:44:59.519 help you. So I do advise everybody on that. So I have learned 586 00:44:59.519 --> 00:45:04.840 that through the process, because yeah, it was actually shocking some of the 587 00:45:04.880 --> 00:45:07.599 stuff he priced for me. And so I know what to keep and what 588 00:45:07.639 --> 00:45:13.079 to get rid of. So it is a process and a lot obviously, 589 00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.119 if you're under pressure because you have to move or selling house, it gets 590 00:45:15.119 --> 00:45:21.679 a little messy. But I think most important is get help. Get help. 591 00:45:22.519 --> 00:45:27.519 Don't try to do it all yourself if you need help, but interview 592 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:32.119 people and get references. You know, in your case, you have a 593 00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:37.079 lot of references. You've got a great website. You know, Start the 594 00:45:37.679 --> 00:45:43.840 start the process before you're pressured to have to move faster. That's a big 595 00:45:43.880 --> 00:45:50.280 one. Like start now, like everybody listening, start now on how to 596 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:55.920 clear out and streamline your life and your environment so that when the time comes 597 00:45:55.960 --> 00:46:00.639 when you you know, have to move or God forbid, you're not feeling 598 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:04.159 that pressure. It's a process that you have to live with every day, 599 00:46:04.280 --> 00:46:09.159 like your diet. Right. Yes, absolutely, And what you say is 600 00:46:09.320 --> 00:46:14.360 when people are faced with a pressure like an illness or a move, they 601 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:16.920 don't make the decisions they really want to make. And so when we can 602 00:46:17.039 --> 00:46:21.559 start now, when and this is part of why I talk about in the 603 00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:27.400 book, sort of encouraging mindfulness and taking your time and being thoughtful. You 604 00:46:28.039 --> 00:46:32.199 will feel so much better about the decisions you're making when you're decluttering with that 605 00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:37.760 in mind, as opposed to at a crisis point. And so that's you 606 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:40.559 know, the more awareness that people have of this, I think the ease 607 00:46:42.119 --> 00:46:45.760 in getting started. And there are so many resources for help, Just like 608 00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:51.239 with any goal one of us might have, whether it's exercise or nutrition or 609 00:46:51.239 --> 00:46:55.320 decluttering, there are people who are trained who can be of assistance and lots 610 00:46:55.320 --> 00:47:00.079 of different options for working with them. Yeah, just that and references and 611 00:47:00.239 --> 00:47:05.159 don't make rash decisions. I mean, you know, take your time and 612 00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:09.320 set a timeline. I think that's really important. Otherwise, like with a 613 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:13.880 lot of things, it can take over your life and you don't want that 614 00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.000 to happen. And I and I mean that, and whether it becomes a 615 00:47:17.039 --> 00:47:22.159 disorder that as you try to find order, it becomes a disorder. M 616 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:25.559 hm, well put yeah, and uh, you know I lived it, 617 00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:30.639 so I can say I think your approach is very interesting. I've not read 618 00:47:30.639 --> 00:47:35.920 any of Marie Condo's books, but I love the term spark joy. I 619 00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.079 look at everything as we were, as we were going through everything, I 620 00:47:39.159 --> 00:47:43.559 kept saying mouzin, does this really spark joy? You know? Cute? 621 00:47:43.800 --> 00:47:45.199 He go, it's cute. I mean, cute doesn't spark joy for me? 622 00:47:45.360 --> 00:47:50.599 Okay? You also, and and I think this is also important you're 623 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:57.599 in your relationships. Let's just say your goal of decluttering may not match your 624 00:47:57.679 --> 00:48:01.559 partners, so you have to have some goal setting there too, and be 625 00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:07.159 very sensitive to that. Right, Yes, it sounds like you experienced this 626 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:12.920 with your husband too, you know, I right, yeah, you know. 627 00:48:13.000 --> 00:48:15.599 And I think that these are questions that you know, perhaps people should 628 00:48:15.599 --> 00:48:21.840 be talking about earlier on in relationships. It brings up there's options for talking 629 00:48:21.840 --> 00:48:24.199 about what type of home did you grow up in, what was your parents' 630 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:29.559 relationship with clutter, and how does that equate to how you live now? 631 00:48:29.920 --> 00:48:35.000 Because it has a lot of impact on your daily life living with someone else, 632 00:48:35.079 --> 00:48:39.199 which are the major causes of stressors personally and in relationship. It also 633 00:48:39.280 --> 00:48:43.519 has a bit will have a big impact on your finances. So if you're 634 00:48:43.559 --> 00:48:46.280 going to be sharing finances and budgeting with people, you want to know, 635 00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:52.960 are you someone who's going to be buying dozens and dozens of something to keep? 636 00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.840 Or you know, are we going to be holding on to tupperware for 637 00:48:55.880 --> 00:49:00.119 twenty years, just because that's what you always have. You know, there 638 00:49:00.159 --> 00:49:05.079 are different things that will affect how you're communicating and working together. So I 639 00:49:05.119 --> 00:49:10.480 don't think it if it's approached with compassion and that shared goal of what do 640 00:49:10.559 --> 00:49:15.159 you want as a relationship, how do you want to feel in your home, 641 00:49:15.760 --> 00:49:19.239 in your love, in your partnership, and what can you do to 642 00:49:19.320 --> 00:49:22.480 really you know, whether it's like meeting in the middle or setting new shared 643 00:49:22.519 --> 00:49:27.079 goals for how you're going to live, you can find that pass forward, 644 00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:30.880 you know, if you're willing to address the issues. Yeah, and it 645 00:49:31.159 --> 00:49:36.519 you know, just keep you know, it takes diplomacy, but it is 646 00:49:36.960 --> 00:49:43.400 important as much as discussing finances, discussing the space is really important. I've 647 00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:45.199 enjoyed talking with you. This is a topic, as I said, I 648 00:49:45.679 --> 00:49:52.400 address a lot. I enjoyed speaking with you, Jenny Albertini. The book 649 00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:58.559 is Decluttered, Mindful Organizing for Health, Home and Beyond. You can find 650 00:49:58.559 --> 00:50:02.119 it on her site and all the other sites. You know. I hope 651 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.639 your life remains streamlined and successful as you move through what I hope is a 652 00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:14.599 decluttered life of your own. Thank you so much for having me Melanie absolutely 653 00:50:14.679 --> 00:50:17.800 and for everyone listening, I hope this has been helpful. Remember get started 654 00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:24.039 now, don't wait until it's too late and you feel stressed. Start now 655 00:50:24.199 --> 00:50:30.719 to take control of your health, your space, your relationship, your time, 656 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:36.159 and your finances. Because you have the choice to live life on your 657 00:50:36.239 --> 00:50:40.079 terms. Choose to be fearless and fabulous and on it. I'm Melanie Young, 658 00:50:40.199 --> 00:51:00.000 thank you for joining me. I'm fearless, fabulous. You