WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.800 --> 00:00:09.199 Well, whiskey coming fame my paynys right, Oh whiskey, don't you let 2 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:16.519 me? From power Line blog dot com and produced by Ricochet dot Com, 3 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:23.519 this is the three Whiskey Happy Hour with your bartenders Steve Hayward, John You, 4 00:00:24.199 --> 00:00:30.199 and power Lines International Woman of Mystery Lucretia. Have you gotta giving? 5 00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:40.039 Let that whiskey float when you're being in love down in loon? Guys? 6 00:00:40.159 --> 00:00:45.079 Was I ever write in my New Year's Predictions for twenty twenty four claudey kay 7 00:00:45.359 --> 00:00:48.479 just resigned? You know I have to give it to you. John. 8 00:00:48.920 --> 00:00:51.880 It kills me to do this. I'm sure it kills Lucreese even more. 9 00:00:51.880 --> 00:00:54.200 But you were right, and it took less than a week for it to 10 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:59.600 come true. But maybe for listeners who missed last week or who have forgotten 11 00:00:59.600 --> 00:01:03.119 already like I do. Here's what John said last week, just for the 12 00:01:03.200 --> 00:01:11.799 record. So I mean maybe my my my low probability prediction is that all 13 00:01:11.879 --> 00:01:15.519 of the university presidents who testified before Congress and that hearing will be relieved of 14 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.519 office by the end of the year, even if they're not saying so. 15 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:23.680 So I would expect clauding gay Gosh she looks like she's going down. But 16 00:01:23.760 --> 00:01:26.920 I think also the president of MIT will have to leave in the end too. 17 00:01:26.079 --> 00:01:30.040 I think I do think we have had a turning point in woke ink 18 00:01:30.400 --> 00:01:34.319 and even if the even if they're not, I think I think Clauding Gay 19 00:01:34.359 --> 00:01:38.200 would have been gone by now, except the Penn president resigned and so they 20 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:42.640 couldn't force her out right away. So I think they're going to have a 21 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:47.319 decent interval, and the same for the MIT president too. So there you 22 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:51.120 go, John, take your bows. Now that's the last, the last 23 00:01:51.120 --> 00:01:53.400 place we're going to be nice to tonight, Right, Lucretia, I thought 24 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.120 you were going to say the last time you'll ever be right. I know, 25 00:01:57.159 --> 00:02:00.599 Well, I'm keeping track because I know if any your crazy predictions come 26 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:07.079 true, I will have to confess my predictions down before last year, John, 27 00:02:07.239 --> 00:02:15.000 remember, but you're right. Yeah. So this is uh John you 28 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:20.199 if you didn't know already, And this is the three Whiskey Happy Hour Harvard 29 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:27.360 President Edition, and I'm joined as always by uh Steve Hayward and Lucretia, 30 00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:31.080 the International Woman of Mystery. How are you guys doing tonight? Happy? 31 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:38.639 We didn't go to Harvard? I see John, Are you actually drinking lefroy 32 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:40.080 tonight? John? Along with me? I am, I felt everybody. 33 00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:46.159 I felt so bad about the beating that Steve takes regularly that I actually found 34 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:52.319 an old bottle of Freud unopened so you can hear it opening it for the 35 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:57.879 first time ever. Smell like a cigarettes in an ash tray. We go 36 00:02:57.960 --> 00:03:01.000 again. Is that what it's like to you? Oh? God, it 37 00:03:01.080 --> 00:03:05.639 does have a little gasoline smell to it. Oh, guys are terrible, 38 00:03:05.879 --> 00:03:09.120 all right? Wow? Wow, it really does have a strong paty taste 39 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:13.400 to it. It does taste like moss. But you know what it makes. 40 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:16.599 What it really works well is if you don't have any of that artificial 41 00:03:16.639 --> 00:03:21.360 smoke flavoring for your barbecued ribs, you pour some of the froug in and 42 00:03:21.400 --> 00:03:24.879 it works. It is everywhere I have to put up with at this show, 43 00:03:24.960 --> 00:03:30.599 all right. I also didn't realize that Steve was drinking the whiskey approved 44 00:03:30.639 --> 00:03:36.919 by the Prince of Whales. I assume embarrassed. Well, William is the 45 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:39.240 Prince of Wales now and he's by this bottel is old enough. It was 46 00:03:39.280 --> 00:03:46.319 pre Charles. It's also Charles's favorite with whiskey. Yeah, that's what I 47 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:49.800 mean. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And he's a knit whin. I 48 00:03:49.840 --> 00:03:53.719 know what you guys, Yeah, you weren't talking about the guy who died 49 00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:59.879 Philip. You were talking about Charles Charles. Yeah, okay, you yeah, 50 00:04:00.080 --> 00:04:02.800 he's a netwit. Yeah, I know. There's no taste in anything, 51 00:04:02.840 --> 00:04:09.599 including women. I have an architecture Oh yeah, yeah, no, 52 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.520 no, he said it was the one thing Rob's favorite tradition. Yeah yeah, 53 00:04:13.840 --> 00:04:17.040 and yeah classic. Let me say something about modern architecture done more to 54 00:04:17.959 --> 00:04:24.959 destroy beauty in Europe than the Blitzkrieg or something. Yeah, you know, 55 00:04:25.079 --> 00:04:28.160 maybe it's a stop clock being right twice a day, but still we got 56 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:32.319 to give him something. God give me Steve. What are you drinking? 57 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:36.839 Oh, same court, the same thing I'm drinking drinking Yeah yeah yeah, 58 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:42.360 and the cre what are you drinking? I am drinking the rest of the 59 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:45.600 bottle of the fifteen year old Glen Fintag. But my son was trying to 60 00:04:45.639 --> 00:04:50.399 talk me into drinking a bottle of whiskey we got last week by WoT do 61 00:04:50.399 --> 00:04:57.240 you guys know who? From Black black Hawk down, The actual guy, 62 00:04:57.680 --> 00:05:02.079 not the actor, has his own whiskey and his own cigars, his own 63 00:05:02.120 --> 00:05:06.480 Cuban cigars, of which there's only like one hundred left to be bought, 64 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:11.680 and I think we got a dozen of them. I should also just know 65 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:15.920 for the listeners before we get into the rest of the edition, that there 66 00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:20.319 should be a photo being hosted along with the podcast of all three of us 67 00:05:20.759 --> 00:05:26.279 with weapons, and as usual. The only reason Steve and I did it 68 00:05:26.319 --> 00:05:30.199 is because Lucretia goaded us into it by showing off her guns, which he's 69 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:35.800 doing right now, only one. It's a Nighthog custom. Anyway, enough 70 00:05:35.800 --> 00:05:41.279 of that, it just happened to be here, so I'm glad to say, 71 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:45.680 John, the surprise to me is how quickly to get back on our 72 00:05:45.720 --> 00:05:49.600 thread, how quickly Claudine Gay's determination occurred. I thought it would be dragged 73 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:54.759 out a while for a whole bunch of reasons. But I think that's the 74 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:57.319 only place where John might be a little I don't want to say he was 75 00:05:57.360 --> 00:06:01.279 off on his prediction. I think he thought that the other issues plaguing her 76 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:05.120 would would be her downfall. But what actually happened, if you'll recall, 77 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:10.920 is that dozens more instances of her plagiarism came out, and that you know, 78 00:06:10.959 --> 00:06:13.759 there was really nothing they could do. Not that John was wrong in 79 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.079 any way, shape or for medn't think you even you thought she was capable 80 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:23.160 of that much plagiarism. And yeah, fifty fifty counts given how says someone 81 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:27.720 I heard someone says, given this, she only had eleven articles, that's 82 00:06:27.759 --> 00:06:33.319 a lot of plagiarism per page. Well, yeah, the my favorite of 83 00:06:33.360 --> 00:06:36.120 the you know, of course, a torrent of great memes. My favorite 84 00:06:36.160 --> 00:06:41.639 one late in the week was the one the picture of Martin Luther King out 85 00:06:41.639 --> 00:06:46.319 of his great speech before in Washington and San Claudine Gay was hired for the 86 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:48.839 color of her skin and fired for the content of her character. And I 87 00:06:48.879 --> 00:06:53.639 thought, boom, that's what is really good, right, because she was 88 00:06:54.360 --> 00:06:59.680 utterly intransigent, and you know, between her resignation statement and her New York 89 00:06:59.720 --> 00:07:02.759 Times ed, she's utterly unrepentant. It's all right, let me, yeah, 90 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.160 go ahead of it. Let me read you a few choice quotes from 91 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:11.959 her New York Times op ed explaining her resignation, just to get your juices 92 00:07:12.000 --> 00:07:15.720 flowing. So first, she said she hoped that by stepping down, she 93 00:07:15.759 --> 00:07:23.360 would deny demagogues the opportunity to further weaponize her presidency in their campaign to undermine 94 00:07:23.759 --> 00:07:29.920 the ideals have animated Harvard since its founding excellence, openness, independence, truth. 95 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:35.360 That's one, And she said she this part. I think she got 96 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:41.360 right. The campaign against her was about more than one university and one leader. 97 00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:46.439 They are merely a single skirmish in a broader war to unravel public faith 98 00:07:46.879 --> 00:07:50.879 and pillars of American society. Campaigns of this kind often start with a tax 99 00:07:50.959 --> 00:07:57.600 on education and expertise, because these are the tools that best equipped communities to 100 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:05.000 see through propaganda. Y She compared herself to other trusted institutions being tacked like 101 00:08:05.279 --> 00:08:13.800 Lucusha, like this, public health agencies and news organizations, which are also 102 00:08:13.279 --> 00:08:18.439 sol falling victim, she says, to coordinated attempts to undermine their legitimacy and 103 00:08:18.560 --> 00:08:24.560 ruin their leader's credibility. Yeah. So, so, Steve, what hold 104 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:28.959 on? You just disappeared? Or did I disappear? Sorry? Steve? 105 00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:31.200 What do you think about it? Yeah? You commute yourself for second? 106 00:08:31.240 --> 00:08:37.399 John, Well, so I think we're missing a bigger picture here. I 107 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:39.840 guess my headline would be and I've got to work as an article. Is 108 00:08:39.840 --> 00:08:45.440 that what this has exposed and her her utter lack of self awareness about how 109 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:50.519 all these institutions have brought this on themselves is what I'm now calling the metaphor 110 00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:56.519 is it's the it's the the universities have autoimmune an autoimmune disease right there, 111 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:01.559 destroying themselves within and don't see it, and so on the business it was, 112 00:09:01.080 --> 00:09:05.240 let's look at everybody, and there's a lot of nervousness. And you 113 00:09:05.240 --> 00:09:07.919 know, apparently a couple of conservatives have been called out for some plagiarism, 114 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:11.440 and Bill Lackman's wife, instead of obfuscating, said, yep, I didn't 115 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:16.320 properly cite somebody, and I was a mistake, and I apologize for it. 116 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:20.600 No obfuscation in dancing around like gated. But I think the broader story 117 00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:26.679 is someone said, look, cluting gay may have copied some language, but 118 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.679 she didn't borrow anybody's ideas, and I thought she doesn't have any Well that's 119 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.720 that's a variation of my point, which is when everyone has the same idea, 120 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:39.279 you can't steal them, right, And so I actually think the broader 121 00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:45.120 plagiarism quote unquote scandal in a broader sense is that, Well, let me 122 00:09:45.159 --> 00:09:50.320 give you one example. I always note about how the all the declarations of 123 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:54.919 diversity equity inclusion they sound the same. Are they plagiarizing? No, it's 124 00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:58.080 because it's become a catechism, like the nice seeing creed. Diversity equity inclusion 125 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:03.639 has replaced the Father's son in the Holy Spirit, and nobody get used, 126 00:10:03.639 --> 00:10:07.519 as you of plagiarism for saying the Lord's prayer correct. But that's a different 127 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.399 context. That's about worship and not about you know, original knowledge and ripes. 128 00:10:13.120 --> 00:10:15.879 I actually think they're the same context in this case, do you, 129 00:10:15.960 --> 00:10:18.480 Well? Maybe so. But I remember a year or two ago when there 130 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:22.440 had been a shooting at Michigan State or somewhere, and the DEI office at 131 00:10:22.519 --> 00:10:28.440 Vanderbilt University put out a public statement of condolence and support, and it turned 132 00:10:28.440 --> 00:10:33.320 out had written by Chat Gpt. And I'm wondering, first of all, 133 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:37.440 were they so illiterate and competent they couldn't write their own original statement? Well, 134 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.919 they either would have copied someone else's or just have Chatt Gpt do it. 135 00:10:39.960 --> 00:10:43.799 And they all sound alike. The more serious version of that is is 136 00:10:43.840 --> 00:10:48.559 that all of the main ideas are all the same idea. It's all you 137 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.159 know, sex, race, suppression. So many of the job ads in 138 00:10:52.559 --> 00:10:56.679 for the social sciences and humanity say, we want someone who's going to work 139 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.200 especially on race, racism, white supremacy, postcolonial studies. They all want 140 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:05.159 people cut from the same mode and the mode mold and the same ideology. 141 00:11:05.399 --> 00:11:09.399 So I think if you really do a plagiarism screen, you're going to find 142 00:11:09.480 --> 00:11:13.639 lots and lots of copying, even if the language is different. And at 143 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.399 that point it becomes even more embarrassing than simply not giving proper attribution to somebody 144 00:11:18.799 --> 00:11:24.240 so much shadow immune disease. Yeah, Sean that in some ways the deeper 145 00:11:24.320 --> 00:11:26.559 issue though, the lack of self awareness. One of you said that, 146 00:11:28.120 --> 00:11:33.919 you know, it is astounding that they are so that they appear to be 147 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:39.919 so unaware of how incredibly hypocritical, etcetera, etcetera. They sound. But 148 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.200 last time, I know, we talked quite a bit about Larry Summers. 149 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.919 The one we didn't talk about was Charles Freed, and it reminded me of 150 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:52.399 my last encounter with Charles Freed. He came to the law school and law 151 00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:54.960 school asked me to be on a panel with him, you know, and 152 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:58.120 so the guy he was Solicitor General under Reagan, right, that was a 153 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.440 big thing. So this was this was actually in twenty twelve, I want 154 00:12:03.440 --> 00:12:07.759 to say, March, before the before the Obamacare decision came out, the 155 00:12:07.919 --> 00:12:11.679 Civilius and if I versus Sivilius, and so there was some you know, 156 00:12:11.759 --> 00:12:18.720 questions and speculation about how the Court would decide, and Charles Freed gave this 157 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:28.679 moronic, idiotics incredibly stupendously stupid statement about how we expected that a couple of 158 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:33.120 the justices on the Court to take this conservative approach and overturn it based upon 159 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:37.240 the commerce clause blah blah blah blah blah, but that this person and this 160 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:41.039 person were you know, I think it was Kennedy and Roberts of course were 161 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:43.120 unknowns, so we didn't know how they were going to vote. And he 162 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:46.879 walked talked on and on and on about how partisan hackery this was on the 163 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.399 part of the Supreme Court, and did this for a while, and finally 164 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:54.279 when he stopped talking, I said, really interesting to me that never once 165 00:12:54.320 --> 00:13:00.159 did you mention the fact that the at the time, for liberal hacks on 166 00:13:00.240 --> 00:13:03.799 the Supreme Court, nobody questions which way they're going to vote, And you 167 00:13:03.840 --> 00:13:09.960 don't find any problem with that, You supposed conservative Republican can only find it 168 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.200 in your heart to criticize the possibility that maybe the principal side on the right 169 00:13:15.279 --> 00:13:18.720 on the court might actually act in a principled way. And he sat there. 170 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.360 He really didn't know what to say, because it never occurred to him 171 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:30.399 to criticize the liberals on the court for being liberals the conservatives for not being 172 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:37.320 more bipartisan. Yeah, so the reason I mentioned sorry, he's the one 173 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:46.039 who came out and said that he would take these accusations of pilagiarism more seriously 174 00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:50.519 if they weren't part of a right wing propaganda smear. In other words, 175 00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.519 I won't I don't consider them a problem because the people accusing her of them 176 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:00.840 are conservatives, right wing conservatives, is what he said. Can I add 177 00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:03.559 a point about Go ahead, Steve, this is a great example, or 178 00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.879 at least a great example of my autoimmune disease analogy. Just in the last 179 00:14:07.879 --> 00:14:11.639 forty eight hours, a new controversy is erupted at Harvard. Apparently they have 180 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:18.200 something I think it's called the open enrollment Extension School where anybody can apply or 181 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:20.480 it's sort of easy to sign up for the school and you can get a 182 00:14:20.519 --> 00:14:24.120 master's. Was a great from Harvard in certain subjects. Now apparently once you're 183 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.039 there they flunk you out of you're no good. It's not unusual. I'm 184 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.720 quite familiar with the adult education program the University of Chicago has had for decades. 185 00:14:31.159 --> 00:14:35.840 Harry Jaffa taught in that as a graduate student or a young professor in 186 00:14:35.879 --> 00:14:39.960 the late forties in Chicago. Daniel Allen taught in it when she was at 187 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:46.159 Chicago twenty years ago. But the problem is, Chris Rufo got a degree 188 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:52.519 through that extension program at Harvard. The Harvard people are they're curious about this. 189 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:54.879 They're saying, well, it's not really Harvard. I mean it's not 190 00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:58.480 really you know, that's not a real Harvard degree. And apparently faculty who 191 00:14:58.519 --> 00:15:01.240 teach it now at each other's throats at Harvard saying, wait a minute, 192 00:15:01.360 --> 00:15:05.399 so serious program, don't be running down. So the point is you're not 193 00:15:05.440 --> 00:15:13.200 having facts at Harvard attacking each other because participated in one of their programs. 194 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:16.559 As a Harvard graduate myself, we can all agree that the worst school of 195 00:15:16.600 --> 00:15:20.600 all is not the extension school, of course, it's the education school of 196 00:15:20.679 --> 00:15:24.960 course. Right, The school that's probably done the most damaged for a degree 197 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:30.840 candidate in the history of Western civilization. I actually be a teacher's school wins 198 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.559 that one Harvard's Piker compared, but they're still bad. I'll agree with that. 199 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:41.519 But but Lucretia, you were getting onto the deeper message before you made 200 00:15:41.519 --> 00:15:46.320 your point about how this Yes, sorry, I really made me. What's 201 00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:50.240 your deeper? What's your deep? The deeper point is that gay I mean, 202 00:15:50.279 --> 00:15:56.159 I would be embarrassed to have said her resignation statement, or to have 203 00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.440 written that piece in the New York Times. I would be so embarrassed to 204 00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:03.879 know the lack of self awareness. There has to be some self awareness there. 205 00:16:04.279 --> 00:16:11.399 There has to be some idea that she is unqualified for the job in 206 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:15.759 her own mind, unqualified for the job. She was always unqualified for the 207 00:16:15.840 --> 00:16:21.360 job. She got the job because she's black, no end and doing the 208 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:26.600 right kind of scholarship, even if it's lousy, third rate scholarship that's mostly 209 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.240 plagiarized. She had to have a sense of that, and yet she could 210 00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:36.240 come out and make those in your face. I don't even know how to 211 00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:41.759 describe them statements or write the piece in the New York Times. Why Because 212 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:48.519 people like Charles Freed and Larry Summers and others who are bipartisan or at the 213 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.399 very least, you know, not looked upon totally askance by the right have 214 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:56.039 come out and supported her, along with of course, the entire faculty at 215 00:16:56.039 --> 00:17:00.679 Harvard and the Harvard Corporation. What about the Harvard overseers? What do they 216 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:04.000 have to say about her? So let me can I jump out? Sorry, 217 00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:07.440 that was supposed to be a joke. You guys are supposed to laugh? 218 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.960 Well, right, well, can I can I throw in a little? 219 00:17:11.519 --> 00:17:15.559 This goes way back to my college years when I was actually a cub 220 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:19.720 reporter for the student newspaper, the Harvard Crimson, and I used to cover 221 00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:25.839 her from time to time. The Harvard Corporation and Harvard has this archaic, 222 00:17:26.680 --> 00:17:30.880 archaic system of self governance. There's no board of trustees who are selected by 223 00:17:32.680 --> 00:17:38.599 say, legislature or by alumni. They're governed by this mysterious thing called the 224 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:45.400 Harvard Corporation, which is this self perpetuating body where the new members are just 225 00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:49.359 chosen by the existing members. Where you know, you can get a group 226 00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.759 of people who seem so out of their depth they thought Claudie Gay would make 227 00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:59.599 a great president and stood by her after the testimony she gave before Congress then, 228 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.720 and I was laughing about Lucretia's mention of the Harvard Overseers is that there 229 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.200 is this body called the Harvard Board of Overseers, which I think is really 230 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.079 nothing more than a Harvard alumni popularity contest. So as alumni, you get 231 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:18.839 to vote on these but they have no power. So you really didn't have 232 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:25.119 to recuse herself. As what you're saying, I mean she was on the 233 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:27.640 Board of Overseers. It is you're got some position at Harvard, but you 234 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:30.839 don't actually have any power. You have no authority to make any decisions on 235 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:36.119 the Board of Overseers. Corporation is the And in fact, I don't know 236 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:40.119 if you saw, but mister Ackman, who's been the one who you know, 237 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:44.759 the financier, has been attacking Harvard and Penn and mit Is, called 238 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:48.920 for the Harvard Corporation to be changed and for the state of Massachusetts to intervene. 239 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:52.599 I'm not this question. What do you think about the future, What 240 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:56.680 does this mean for a future of higher education? Do you think this is 241 00:18:56.079 --> 00:19:00.759 going to produce good things? Or maybe it'll make well make things worse. 242 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:07.279 Yeah, I don't know how much longer people like Charles Freed and others can 243 00:19:07.359 --> 00:19:12.799 keep up that that, you know, the defense that stands on nothing. 244 00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:18.240 I mean, wouldn't you be embarrassed as someone who had been a former solicitor 245 00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.920 general actually to make the argument that I don't care what's true, it's not 246 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.799 true, or it doesn't matter if it is true because the claim is being 247 00:19:26.839 --> 00:19:33.319 made by somebody with a political position. I mean, and that guy was 248 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:37.200 solicitor general of the United States. That is what the solicitor general does. 249 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.880 That's what the solicitor general does. Actually, his brain has been freed. 250 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.599 Okay, Sorry, what about you? What about your thoughts about that? 251 00:19:48.920 --> 00:19:51.880 John, You would at least have some self sorry before you went. You 252 00:19:51.880 --> 00:19:56.119 would have some self awareness about that. You might make that argument as a 253 00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.480 lawyer, but you would know that outside of court of law would make you 254 00:20:00.519 --> 00:20:04.359 look like an idiot, right, I mean, I actually think putting but 255 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:10.480 putting aside the the solicitor general part. As a good professor, you don't 256 00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:11.759 you know, we've all taught, and we've taught in the classroom together. 257 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:17.720 We don't denigrate an idea because of the source of the identity of the person 258 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:25.519 who makes it and right. But you recall that's also what Claudine Gay did 259 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:30.759 where I think in a resignation letter she said that these attacks were motivated by 260 00:20:30.799 --> 00:20:34.480 racism. She had lot of people have been saying. But remember he said 261 00:20:34.720 --> 00:20:40.839 he couldn't take them seriously, no matter what the truth about them came out 262 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:44.400 to be, because they were initiated by a right wink of all against her. 263 00:20:45.359 --> 00:20:48.920 Yeah, I think, well, yeah, I think he Well, 264 00:20:48.119 --> 00:20:52.279 maybe he's not sufficiently embarrassed. What I think, John, to your question, 265 00:20:52.440 --> 00:20:53.640 is I mean, look, last week I made the case that maybe 266 00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.880 this is a big turning point, and you know, I said, it's 267 00:20:57.000 --> 00:21:00.599 nineteen fifty four all over again, just to Lacretia. I don't know. 268 00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.759 I could see things getting worse. I do think, narrowly speaking, though, 269 00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:08.960 even Harvard has to see that whatever their governance structure is, however their 270 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:14.000 board is composed, it has to change for this reason. By all accounts 271 00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:18.079 that I think are true, Penny Pritzker became the chair of the Harbor l 272 00:21:18.759 --> 00:21:21.960 Well, no, that's her. Well, brother, I forget it's not 273 00:21:21.960 --> 00:21:26.720 her. Her husband's not the governor. Yes, I thought it was his 274 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:30.119 son. Well, I'm not quite sure that there's a whole lot of Printzkers. 275 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.759 The point is way too many, obviously. Yees. Well, I 276 00:21:33.799 --> 00:21:37.319 actually I actually know the one Printzker who's next generation, who's descents for the 277 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:41.960 rest of the family. But never mind that she's terrific. But she, 278 00:21:41.440 --> 00:21:45.440 by all accounts, she bought her position. She made something like one hundred 279 00:21:45.480 --> 00:21:48.079 million dollars donation to Harvard and wanted to be on the Harvard Corporation. She 280 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.279 became the chair, She was the driving force behind appointing Gay to be the 281 00:21:52.319 --> 00:21:56.279 president. I've got to think that elite universities are going to say, we 282 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:00.319 can't have that kind of thing happening. We have to have a serious board. 283 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:03.119 And even if the board is Larry Summers and you know, eminent liberals, 284 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:07.599 at least they are people who aren't in political hacks, who aren't going 285 00:22:07.640 --> 00:22:12.039 by a partisan political agenda, who aren't lightweights. And if they don't figure 286 00:22:12.079 --> 00:22:17.079 at least that out, then there isn't much hope. Okay, take it 287 00:22:17.119 --> 00:22:21.039 back, it is your brother. Yes, you're right, brother, Penny 288 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:23.599 Prisker's younger brother. But you know she's been in the Obama cabinet. Right, 289 00:22:25.200 --> 00:22:29.039 and you know we called a ringing endorsement. I know, Secretary of 290 00:22:29.079 --> 00:22:33.079 Commerce one of those important jobs. Right. I'm sure she bought that one 291 00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:37.920 too through generous donations to the Obamas. Right, and your family is from 292 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.319 Chicago. I'm sure they supported Obama for years and years before you know it's 293 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:45.160 worked. Gonna mention just briefly. The Apartment of Commerce, I think was 294 00:22:45.200 --> 00:22:48.160 a creation of Herbert Hoover. He was the first Secretary of Commerce. I 295 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:53.039 mean he had created but and periodically Republicans have said in the nineties, and 296 00:22:53.039 --> 00:22:56.759 I think maybe Reagan said, what abolish this department? And hasn't happened, 297 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:00.319 because what do they really do? We need a Department of co much we 298 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.519 have always regulatory agencies. And I had a good friend it was the point 299 00:23:03.519 --> 00:23:07.480 into a fairly senior position in the Department of Commerce under George W. Bush, 300 00:23:07.599 --> 00:23:10.720 and I came to Washington and he took me to lunch and said, 301 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:11.880 do you have any ideas of what we ought to be doing? Because I 302 00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:17.440 don't even know what we're doing or why we exist that we are, right, 303 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:19.920 So let me let me ask Lucretia this because there have been a number 304 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:27.160 of stories by newspapers about how this is just the beginning of a conservative effort 305 00:23:27.160 --> 00:23:32.279 to reform universities. Who've had Christopher Ruffo, you know, at the Manhattan 306 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:37.559 Institute, who has who did publish a number of the stories outing the plagiarism 307 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:44.519 accusations. Although they had been on professor blogs basically, right, they've been 308 00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:48.200 on blogs of political scientists like your crowd, have some blogs about jobs and 309 00:23:48.240 --> 00:23:51.240 so on. And this has been in the rumor mill for many, many 310 00:23:51.319 --> 00:23:56.680 years apparently. And then there's stories about how the Heritage Foundation is going to 311 00:23:56.680 --> 00:24:02.079 start to try to lead an effort to try to get at at least red 312 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:07.920 state governors and legislatures to take this opportunity to try to undo wokeism, to 313 00:24:08.119 --> 00:24:14.720 uproot the dei bureaucracies at their universities. What do you think of that, 314 00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.640 Lucretia. Do you think there's any hope of this working? Do you think 315 00:24:17.640 --> 00:24:22.880 that the Harvard right, the Harvard resignation is just the beginning of a conservative 316 00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:29.319 counter revolution at universities. So if you look at it the way you described 317 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.960 it, John, you know, sort of the big picture, seeing what's 318 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.680 coming into much more mainstream in the media and so on, as opposed to 319 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.440 on those obscure political blogs Steve and I like to pay attention to. You 320 00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:47.680 might think so, But all I can do is from kind of an anecdotal 321 00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:52.519 point of view, which is to say that in Arizona, our governing board 322 00:24:52.799 --> 00:24:56.680 is actually, you know, a better one, what a little bit more 323 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.880 like what Steve described a governing bo or should be. It's appointed by this 324 00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.519 a governor, and you know this and that, and you know they're made 325 00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:08.839 up of people that not that people who gave huge amounts of money, but 326 00:25:11.039 --> 00:25:15.640 have some reason to be in a position of power over the universities in Arizona. 327 00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:21.640 One of the things that they did after the Harvard case was to they 328 00:25:21.680 --> 00:25:26.920 stop the use of diversity statements. They stopped the use of diversity in any 329 00:25:26.039 --> 00:25:30.319 kind of hiring action. So the stupid diversity questions we used to have to 330 00:25:30.359 --> 00:25:37.920 ask were no longer allowed to. They really pushed hard to get rid of 331 00:25:37.559 --> 00:25:45.880 the overt expression of the DEI regime that much, I mean from the point 332 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.680 of view and not getting deep down into things. They don't do that, 333 00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:55.680 but they did sort of put out a statement that no more, no more 334 00:25:55.839 --> 00:26:02.039 diversity as a condition for getting or keeping a job, all right, immediately, 335 00:26:02.480 --> 00:26:06.920 at least at my university, you know, backroom deals are being done, 336 00:26:07.039 --> 00:26:11.200 Things are being done behind paywalls or you know, behind the stuff that's 337 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:17.519 only available to people in the university with access inside the intranet and so on, 338 00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.119 and so they're still managing to do a whole lot of what they always 339 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.960 used to do, even though Arizona's had, you know, much more restrictive 340 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:30.720 laws in that regard for a long time than other places have. So my 341 00:26:30.880 --> 00:26:36.119 guess is it's going to take a really long time because it's not Harvard might 342 00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:40.759 be leading this, and Harvard might be so awful that they can push someone 343 00:26:40.799 --> 00:26:45.079 as incompetent as Clouding Gay up as their president, you know, because of 344 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:49.960 their standing in higher education. That standing has fallen. But it's everywhere. 345 00:26:51.039 --> 00:26:56.279 There are very few universities that are not just absolutely built entirely upon the die 346 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:00.599 structure these days. That I think is going to be very hard to get 347 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:06.720 rid of because you end up with that kind of I'm not coming up with 348 00:27:06.759 --> 00:27:08.559 the right word to describe it. You guys called it a lack of self 349 00:27:08.599 --> 00:27:14.680 awareness. These are not people who are playing a game and playing with a 350 00:27:14.759 --> 00:27:18.920 trend. They believe that stuff in their heart of hearts. They do not 351 00:27:19.160 --> 00:27:25.759 Sorry, I almost lost it there. They do not question that diversity is 352 00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:33.920 our strengths. They do not question that inclusivity means that everybody should have a 353 00:27:33.960 --> 00:27:37.160 seat at the table, and that equity means we need to do what's necessary 354 00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:40.759 to make sure when they come to the table they're all now in in exactly 355 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:48.759 the same place, and so meritocracy's gone and slipping away, not coming back. 356 00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:51.880 That's what I see, And maybe I'm wrong. I'm helping. I'm 357 00:27:51.880 --> 00:27:55.920 wrong, Steve, I'm helping. Your eternal, infernal optimism tells me that 358 00:27:56.279 --> 00:28:00.480 there is a possibility of undoing some of that, but I'm not seeing it 359 00:28:00.559 --> 00:28:03.640 yet. You know, John, I've been looking forward to tonight because I 360 00:28:03.680 --> 00:28:07.880 realized that there's several places where I me may take a harder line than lucretia, 361 00:28:07.039 --> 00:28:10.720 which is hard to do. So well, this is this is one 362 00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:12.759 of them. I think I think you actually understate how in city is the 363 00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:17.680 de I people are. It's not just that therefore diversities are strength and other 364 00:28:17.759 --> 00:28:21.839 superficial silly bromides like that. A lot of them believe this is a mission 365 00:28:21.880 --> 00:28:26.319 for remedial justice, and so they really do believe the Candy's line that the 366 00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.400 remedy for past discrimination is present discrimination. They're most of them disguise it better 367 00:28:30.400 --> 00:28:33.839 than Kennedy does. But uh, you know, you'd think right now that 368 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.880 the de I people would be hunkering down in their bunkers and hoping the storm 369 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.200 would pass. Uh. On the on New Year's Day, I had a 370 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:47.559 conversation with a friend of mine who's a conservative at community college one that's actually 371 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.960 in the Central Valley. I'll just say more than that that's run sensibly as 372 00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:53.920 a decent governing board because it's not in you know, Long Beach or somewhere 373 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.319 stupid. Uh. And he said, the de I people are on a 374 00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:03.640 rampage right now. They insisting that someone from the DEI office be on every 375 00:29:03.839 --> 00:29:08.000 department faculty search committee for hiring someone, and the departments have been pushing back 376 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:12.000 saying no. So they've been demanding, can we have a meeting, a 377 00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:15.759 secret meeting with you to discuss your concerns. And my friend sent back a 378 00:29:15.799 --> 00:29:19.519 note saying what you're asking is a violation of the Brown Act in California and 379 00:29:19.640 --> 00:29:23.240 is illegal. So no, but this has happening, you know, are 380 00:29:23.240 --> 00:29:27.440 they not paying attention to what's happening around the country with the whole DEI edifice 381 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:33.640 the answers, No, they're barreling ahead, pressing even more aggressively at a 382 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.759 fairly conservative community college. That's a relative term conservative community college, right, 383 00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:41.839 But you know it's I don't think they're deterred at all, because I think 384 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:45.839 they're true believers of the worst kind. How's that lucretia? Does that mean? 385 00:29:47.039 --> 00:29:48.680 No? No, I don't disagree with it, and I'm not sure 386 00:29:49.519 --> 00:29:52.279 I just didn't express it as well as I probably could have. I'm a 387 00:29:52.319 --> 00:29:56.119 little brain dead after today. That's a whole other story, but I do. 388 00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:07.359 I mean, it's incredibly incredible to me how quickly this insidious sort of 389 00:30:07.519 --> 00:30:12.039 disease became so well entrenched across higher education. I know the reasons for it, 390 00:30:12.079 --> 00:30:15.519 but I still I look at it and it's incredible. Here's the problem. 391 00:30:15.839 --> 00:30:22.920 You have a very difficult time actually criticizing that in most cases, and 392 00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:27.160 if you're just the normal junior faculty member, perhaps trying to get tenure, 393 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.960 you're not ever going to say a word. You're not going to try to 394 00:30:30.960 --> 00:30:36.759 publish in a journal that it's not going to be recognized by your superior faculty 395 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.240 judgers as you know, the appropriate kind of journal. You're not going to 396 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.799 do the wrong kind of research. You're not going to if you're in the 397 00:30:45.799 --> 00:30:51.720 public health realm, question any of the crap that the public health communities putting 398 00:30:51.720 --> 00:30:55.079 out there. Now, it's just on and on and on. It's impossible. 399 00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:59.920 We know what's happened to people of stature who have questioned our friend Amy, 400 00:31:00.119 --> 00:31:06.519 who question what it is that DEI wants to do across the board, 401 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.440 And you're right, Steve, my characterization of it's not very good. It's 402 00:31:11.480 --> 00:31:14.680 not very thorough, it's not very enlightening. But I'm hoping people know what 403 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:21.319 I mean when I say that it's awful and it's going to be hard until 404 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.519 because you don't see a new generation of people coming into higher education who don't 405 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.839 think that way. If they think that way, they're not going to college. 406 00:31:32.200 --> 00:31:34.359 That's one of the problems. You know, They're not going to go 407 00:31:34.359 --> 00:31:40.640 to Harvard and shake things up. We saw that right before clotting Gay resigned. 408 00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:45.920 A majority of Harvard students thought that this was a right wing attack on 409 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:48.839 her, and she did nothing wrong. Yeah. Well, I mean, 410 00:31:48.920 --> 00:31:52.720 now some people said that's because they don't want to be called out, but 411 00:31:52.759 --> 00:31:55.359 that's my point. They don't want to be called out and they know they 412 00:31:55.359 --> 00:31:57.640 would be. Well, the Harvard student body, as we know from the 413 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:02.319 Crimson Annual Survey, is skews heavily, much more left than most campuses. 414 00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:06.920 And that's saying something right. The other thing is you mentioned people not going 415 00:32:06.920 --> 00:32:10.640 to college. I almost hesitate to mention the statistic, but the latest figure 416 00:32:10.680 --> 00:32:16.119 I saw is that a higher percentage of black girls are now going to college 417 00:32:16.200 --> 00:32:22.200 than white men or white boys. And yeah, and of course there's still 418 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.799 because the white population's bigger. Still many more white males in college than black 419 00:32:25.799 --> 00:32:30.039 women. But still the point so a couple questions, where are the black 420 00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:34.400 men? Well, we know the problem there. The second thing is if 421 00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.119 that continues, if that persists, and I think it's now a minority of 422 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:40.960 college age white men are going to college, you know, under fifty percent, 423 00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:45.200 And you know that's just going to make the whole working class laptop class 424 00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:49.960 divide get wider and wider as time goes on, and the left will deserve 425 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:53.160 it. But that's that's a longer story. But sorry, I don't want 426 00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:57.000 to bring this to death. But the last thing I'd say about what Steve 427 00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:02.640 just said, it's why you're seeing this programs engineering and computer science and physics 428 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:12.720 especially. They are recruiting and they have the most draconian policies. I won't 429 00:33:12.759 --> 00:33:15.920 mention who it is, but someone I know very well went off to you 430 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:21.519 know, had the opportunity to be really a star physics student. And after 431 00:33:21.599 --> 00:33:23.839 two weeks, the first two weeks as a freshman in college and being told 432 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:28.079 we don't want white males here and if you're going to stay here, your 433 00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:34.599 only job is to make sure you help minorities and especially minority women get through 434 00:33:34.599 --> 00:33:36.920 the program. And the next thing, you know, he changed his major 435 00:33:36.960 --> 00:33:39.759 to something stupid because he just didn't want to put up with that. So 436 00:33:40.359 --> 00:33:45.960 even the tendency to want to go to college because you're very smart, you're 437 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:52.160 very capable, you have real talent in math or science, you're not welcome 438 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:59.119 anymore. You're just not welcome, and they don't care. The departments don't 439 00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:05.519 care. They're much more likely to brag about the diversity numbers than they are 440 00:34:05.599 --> 00:34:08.960 about their I don't know their full right scholars or whatever. Right, Sorry, 441 00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:15.960 that's all right, say about that. Here's maybe a question for you 442 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:22.519 that bring this segment to an end with a little bit of the gaming of 443 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.440 New Year's Eve that we did about predictions. Who do you think, Steve? 444 00:34:25.480 --> 00:34:29.920 I ask you first, who do you think Harvard will pick as its 445 00:34:29.960 --> 00:34:34.559 next president? And then I'm not going to ask you who should Harvard pick 446 00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:37.079 because both of you going to say Harvey Mansfield. And while I admit Harvey 447 00:34:37.079 --> 00:34:42.239 Mansfield, like Nixon and sixty eight, is tanned, rested and ready. 448 00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:45.239 Yeah, I don't think it's going to be Harvey Mansfield, you guys. 449 00:34:45.559 --> 00:34:47.039 Or I could go out on a lim and say, nor will it be 450 00:34:47.199 --> 00:34:52.320 any follower of Strauss? I'm afraid to say, oh, that's quite well. 451 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:54.440 What kind of person do you think Harvard will But you know, I 452 00:34:54.519 --> 00:34:59.800 have two facetious suggestions that aren't entirely facetious because you could see it happening. 453 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:04.800 The first would be Kamala Harris. There's no chance he's ever plagiarized anybody. 454 00:35:07.159 --> 00:35:12.440 And it would solve ab right, it would solve a problem for President Biden, 455 00:35:12.519 --> 00:35:15.199 right, get rid of his you know, albatross of a running mate 456 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:20.320 and on. Yeah, there you go. And my second one, Lucreatia's 457 00:35:20.360 --> 00:35:23.039 gonna love it ought to be Jean Kareem Pierre, what's your name? The 458 00:35:23.039 --> 00:35:28.119 press secretary. She'd be perfect for it. By the way, there's a 459 00:35:28.119 --> 00:35:30.920 great story out today that she's not happy because Biden seems to like John Kirby 460 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.719 better. But never mind, that's just gossop. But Steve, both of 461 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:37.519 your choices are black women. Do you think it has to be a black 462 00:35:37.559 --> 00:35:42.880 woman. No, But but the serious point is if it, I mean, 463 00:35:43.199 --> 00:35:46.679 if Harvard decides that they have to stick with the program, it should 464 00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:52.639 be Daniel Allen, who was interviewed apparently in the first round and dismissed and 465 00:35:52.679 --> 00:35:55.679 she wasn't left enough. You see, she's actually you know, she sounds 466 00:35:55.679 --> 00:36:00.519 fairly conventional, but if you read her closely, tell everybody about Dan Allen 467 00:36:00.559 --> 00:36:01.519 you've mentioned here before. But all right, I mean, I know what 468 00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:07.679 right, she's Bill Allen's daughter. She has her PhD from Princeton in the 469 00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:10.400 classics, which means she learned Greek and Latin because that used to be required 470 00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:15.480 the classics at Princeton, and then got an advanced degree at She was a 471 00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.920 Marshall scholar at Cambridge, I think for a couple of years, and then 472 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:23.079 I think that a second PhD at Harvard under Harvey Mansfield, I think Harvey, 473 00:36:23.760 --> 00:36:28.480 and then taught for a while at University of Chicago, then was brought 474 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:30.760 to the Princeton at the Institute for Vance Study. She's written several books, 475 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:36.119 lots of articles. She's written, you know, from a liberal but sensible 476 00:36:36.159 --> 00:36:38.000 liberal point of view. In the Washington Post, She's written some very good 477 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:44.239 articles recently about a lot. And the point is she wasn't radical enough because 478 00:36:44.280 --> 00:36:49.360 her view of diversity is includes ideological diversity. She said so in some of 479 00:36:49.400 --> 00:36:52.239 her documents at Harvard, and I think she wasn't left enough for them. 480 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.159 I don't think she wants the job, just a sense I have, and 481 00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.000 I haven't bugged her about it. I don't know well enough to ask her 482 00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:02.480 point blank and put her on spot, but nott to be her otherwise are 483 00:37:02.519 --> 00:37:08.599 going to take months and months and months the corporation, Steve, When you 484 00:37:08.639 --> 00:37:12.840 say that, I mean again John's question to you was, why does it 485 00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:15.519 have to be a black woman. It doesn't have to be. But I'm 486 00:37:15.519 --> 00:37:20.119 going to say there's someone in their ranks who no one would say as an 487 00:37:20.159 --> 00:37:25.039 affirmative action hire who would be largely reassuring across the spectrum that she's a serious 488 00:37:25.079 --> 00:37:30.559 person and is not given to ideological crusades. It would disappoint the left. 489 00:37:30.280 --> 00:37:32.840 Uh, and that's why would be a great choice. I think that there's 490 00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:36.639 zero chance she's going to be offered it. I doubt she wants it because 491 00:37:36.639 --> 00:37:39.760 she can see how screwed up things are, so I after that I have 492 00:37:40.039 --> 00:37:45.800 I might be a politician, John, I wouldn't be surprised somebody not on 493 00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:49.239 the on the Epstein client list. That's the only disqualified part. Right now, 494 00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.159 we'll get to the Epstein list. I know you're I know you're chopping 495 00:37:52.159 --> 00:37:54.440 it the bit to talk about the Epstein list. But we'll get to that 496 00:37:54.519 --> 00:37:58.760 leader in the show. I don't know, John, I'm not good at 497 00:37:58.800 --> 00:38:04.360 these things. I turned down four offers today to apply for presidencies from head 498 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:13.599 really really from Harvard, so where where. Oh I'm not gonna genuine headhunters 499 00:38:13.599 --> 00:38:19.480 calling me up and man, but no, I've you the listener, you 500 00:38:19.559 --> 00:38:22.280 know, you know the Lucretia fanclub out there. Can you imagine if she 501 00:38:22.480 --> 00:38:28.400 was the president of university? I mean, applications from power line readers would 502 00:38:28.599 --> 00:38:34.199 trimple quite truple the applicant pool for any of these universities right away, especially 503 00:38:34.239 --> 00:38:39.360 when they see the picture of her with the gun. Steve, both of 504 00:38:39.400 --> 00:38:44.079 you, like McLaughlin says, both of you are wrong. They will want 505 00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:46.719 I'm not sure he'll say, yes, here's the I think here's the pick. 506 00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:53.000 Barack Obama. Oh, Barack Obama would be And you talk about a 507 00:38:53.119 --> 00:38:58.159 lack of scholarship. Man, Wow, what is this picture that you've played 508 00:38:58.159 --> 00:39:05.400 here and somebody took it agred graduation? Yeah, listener in a gown looking 509 00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:10.840 but I'm just kidding graduation gown. I know it's an academic gown. We're 510 00:39:10.840 --> 00:39:14.519 gonna put it on the front of the calendar and I will post it on 511 00:39:14.599 --> 00:39:17.440 the show notes. I think unless I edit this out, Okay, Okay, 512 00:39:17.519 --> 00:39:22.039 I'm trying to unshare and oh, there we go. Okay. I 513 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:25.039 just actually I don't know who to but I wanted to make a comment about 514 00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:30.519 the current interim president, who is a despicable pos by the way, and 515 00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:34.719 was an absolute I mean, I know he's supposedly a little more liberal arts, 516 00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:38.320 et cetera, et cetera, but he was an absolute tyrant, every 517 00:39:38.400 --> 00:39:42.800 bad word you can think of when it came to the whole COVID policies at 518 00:39:42.800 --> 00:39:49.519 Harvard and just awful. And so I don't think it will be him, 519 00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:52.840 but not for that reason. I certainly hope it's not. But I'm I 520 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:57.880 don't know about Obama. I mean, come on, Obama is such an 521 00:39:57.920 --> 00:40:02.199 intellectual dummy. He's such a lightweight. He taught one class. Hell, 522 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:08.119 they call him a Connaw lawyer, john law professor, a con law professor. 523 00:40:08.159 --> 00:40:13.480 Do you know what he taught? I believe it was civil rights impact 524 00:40:13.599 --> 00:40:16.639 from the fourteenth Amendment. That was it. He didn't teach the Fourteenth Amendment. 525 00:40:16.679 --> 00:40:20.679 He didn't teach equal protection, due process, and privileges and immunities. 526 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:22.719 He didn't teach any of those things. He didn't teach sweat versus painter, 527 00:40:23.119 --> 00:40:28.400 go on and on and on. He taught disparate impact for an entire semester. 528 00:40:29.440 --> 00:40:31.880 You know what this from a student who are well, yeah, I 529 00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:36.360 had a friend of mine shootings in Ohio and I'm blanking on his name. 530 00:40:36.400 --> 00:40:38.199 I know him really well. Who was a student of Obama's at Chicago, 531 00:40:39.000 --> 00:40:44.480 And he told the story of one day Obama class said something about disparaging about 532 00:40:44.559 --> 00:40:47.639 you know, the fat cats of the cigars and the road do this and 533 00:40:47.679 --> 00:40:51.039 that, and so the next class, my pal walked in with a big 534 00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:57.920 fat cigar. Boma thought it was funny. Actually, okay, anyway, 535 00:40:58.000 --> 00:41:00.079 that's my problem. Maybe they'll make Michelle. Didn't she go to Princeton and 536 00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:09.360 write a dissertation? Yeah? Wells, as Christopher Hitchins put it, a 537 00:41:09.360 --> 00:41:16.840 thesis written in no known human language. I was sorry enough of that. 538 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:23.440 I know nothing to offer there. Okay, Well, speaking of plagiarist John, 539 00:41:23.639 --> 00:41:27.880 I mean, yeah, let us move, let me. Why don't 540 00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:30.719 we take a break here for a note from our sponsors, and we'll come 541 00:41:30.119 --> 00:41:40.760 right back with the next big topic on our podcast. Well, this hasn't 542 00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:45.440 been a quiet newsweek or even a quiet news day, because our second topic 543 00:41:45.679 --> 00:41:53.559 is President Biden launched his re election campaign with a speech allegedly from Valley Forge. 544 00:41:54.199 --> 00:41:58.880 So, having grown up fifteen minutes from Valley Forge, I know that 545 00:41:58.920 --> 00:42:00.559 he didn't give it there. He gave even in a town called Bluebell, 546 00:42:01.079 --> 00:42:06.199 Pennsylvania, which is not in Valley Forge. It's actually quite a pleasant little 547 00:42:06.239 --> 00:42:10.440 suburb of Philadelphia, and I have to say, I think Joe Biden missed 548 00:42:10.440 --> 00:42:15.480 the point of Valley Forge, because you might have seen the press reports that 549 00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:21.960 originally the speech was planned for tomorrow, January sixth, the anniversary of the 550 00:42:22.000 --> 00:42:25.239 attack on the Capitol, but they moved it a day forward because apparently there's 551 00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:30.280 going to be a snowstorm in Philadelphia tomorrow. Yeah, that's the point of 552 00:42:30.400 --> 00:42:37.039 Valley Forge, of Washington's doing snowstorms. But anyway, right, but anyway 553 00:42:37.039 --> 00:42:42.079 in the speech, I think maybe I'm wrong, but I think this is 554 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:49.320 Ben Biden's most direct attack on Donald Trump. He said, for example, 555 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:52.800 he called Donald Trump an insurrectionist, right, He said that he says he 556 00:42:52.480 --> 00:43:00.519 led insurrectionists to attack the Capitol. He said, Donald Trump's campaign is obsessed 557 00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:05.039 with the past, not the future. He's willing to sacrifice our democracy to 558 00:43:05.119 --> 00:43:10.760 put himself in power. And you might be forgiven if you look through the 559 00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:16.360 speech and did not find any discussion of policy on any major national question. 560 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:24.239 The entire speech was pitched as this coming election will be a choice between democracy 561 00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:30.840 and authoritarianism, and that Donald Trump is willing to use political violence and use 562 00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:36.679 any means necessary to win back the presidency. In all that standing, between 563 00:43:36.719 --> 00:43:44.119 America and totalitarianism, it seems is Joe Biden. So, Steve, what 564 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:49.400 was your reaction to the speech? Did you think actually it was rather successful 565 00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.159 or did you think it was well written, well deliberable, a good theme 566 00:43:53.320 --> 00:43:57.320 to kick off the campaign on. What would you have told him to say? 567 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.119 Well, that's what I said to you, speaking of plagiarists. As 568 00:44:00.440 --> 00:44:02.239 we go on about that a while, look, first of all, some 569 00:44:02.360 --> 00:44:06.960 quick points. One is you're absolutely right he missed a chance for great drama. 570 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:09.800 If you'd given the speech tomorrow in a driving snowstorm in the background, 571 00:44:10.159 --> 00:44:14.440 that would have been great television and a great visual. The problem is he 572 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:17.000 couldn't get to his beach house of Delaware for his week and forty eight hour 573 00:44:17.119 --> 00:44:22.440 NAPSI needs to carry on a second. You make a The point you made 574 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:28.639 about nothing about policy is really significant. It's an astonishing thing to see a 575 00:44:28.800 --> 00:44:32.559 president heading into a reelection year, and we hear, by the way lots 576 00:44:32.559 --> 00:44:37.239 of stories that Biden is frustrated that people will appreciate his accomplishments. But on 577 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:40.519 the surface, if you told me, as a political scientist to do these 578 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:45.440 stupid models, you have unemployment at three point six percent, a fifty year 579 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:47.880 low. You've got positive economic growth, not great, but not bad. 580 00:44:49.039 --> 00:44:52.400 Certainly, all the numbers are better than when George H. W. Bush 581 00:44:52.440 --> 00:44:55.840 started nineteen ninety two, and we remember what happened to him. So lots 582 00:44:55.840 --> 00:45:00.480 of good news on the surface, but people are unhappy about it for sensible 583 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:04.519 reasons that will have to pass over for now. Normally, when a president 584 00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:07.039 launches a reelection campaign, they talked about the bright spots of their record, 585 00:45:07.079 --> 00:45:10.960 and he did none of that. The speech is a reflection of what deep 586 00:45:12.000 --> 00:45:14.760 trouble is in. I won't go through all the poll numbers that people may 587 00:45:14.760 --> 00:45:17.480 have heard about how badly underwater he's been the worst of any president at this 588 00:45:17.559 --> 00:45:22.519 point, even Jimmy Carter. The one number from the last three four weeks 589 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:25.000 that jumps out of me is that a poll out of New York shows Biden 590 00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:30.199 leading Trump by eight points. Biden won New York by twenty points in twenty 591 00:45:30.239 --> 00:45:36.079 twenty. The fact that he's only leading Trump by eight points in New York 592 00:45:36.599 --> 00:45:38.239 shows you how much trouble is in. So what do you do? You 593 00:45:38.280 --> 00:45:42.400 attack the other guy. I think the speech is kind of shrewd but may 594 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:45.440 not work because if you make Trump the issue. Biden has an inside chance 595 00:45:45.440 --> 00:45:50.199 of winning. If the issue is Biden, he's going to lose. Uh 596 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:53.199 well, hold on, let me okay, well Bay, let me finish. 597 00:45:53.280 --> 00:45:55.519 I got to do one more sort of big point to make and then, 598 00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:59.800 which you may like, I think, and then do you like it. 599 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:05.800 He's trying to bait Trump. He's trying to get Trump upset about things, 600 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:08.360 and Trump may jump for the bait. I did see one little clip 601 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:13.199 of Trump today mocking Biden, and this is why I think the speech in 602 00:46:13.239 --> 00:46:15.840 this line of attack may not work. He mocked Biden, and I think 603 00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:22.000 Trump said something like he says, I'm a threat to his democracy. I 604 00:46:22.039 --> 00:46:24.559 thought, typical Trump, genius. He's going to make fun of and he's 605 00:46:24.599 --> 00:46:30.320 going to get under Biden's skin about Biden's sinility, and I think that's going 606 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:34.199 to work. I think Trump is going to drive Biden out of his mind 607 00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.280 and make lots of mistakes. But then about the substance. Finally, last 608 00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:39.639 point, Lucretia, Sorry, I'm going go on too long. The last 609 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:45.440 point to Trump being a threat to democracy. You know, I keep looking 610 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:51.079 at the survey numbers about all the public distrust of the federal government and Trump's 611 00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:54.000 going to be Trump's great line about how I'll only be a dictator on the 612 00:46:54.000 --> 00:46:59.639 first day in office to clean up Biden's mess. I remember I wrote an 613 00:46:59.679 --> 00:47:02.599 article recently about why Prop thirteen made it possible for me to stay in California, 614 00:47:02.639 --> 00:47:07.719 and I remember back to Prop thirteen. Two stories, one a local 615 00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:12.000 office holder who went around opposing Prop thirteen saying, I'd say it's going to 616 00:47:12.039 --> 00:47:15.960 cripple local government, and all I saw in the audience were smiles, and 617 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:19.119 I changed my mind and supported it. It was a famous story in the 618 00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:22.119 La Times then. And my dad was on a school board saying, this 619 00:47:22.239 --> 00:47:24.559 is going to wreck our school finances. I don't know how we're going to 620 00:47:24.639 --> 00:47:28.840 get our budget together for this year and next. I said to my dad, 621 00:47:28.880 --> 00:47:30.079 a commercial property owner, So you're going to vote for it? He 622 00:47:30.159 --> 00:47:34.639 said, God, damn right, I am. Because you know the point 623 00:47:34.719 --> 00:47:37.159 is, I think, you know Trump's a threat to democracy. I think 624 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:39.599 a lot of people out there believe it or aren't going to say, you 625 00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:44.159 know, it's about time we had somebody like that in office. It's a 626 00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:46.519 little bit like Harvard. I think people are out of touch with how angry 627 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.760 so many, and I think a majority of Americans are with Washington that that 628 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:53.679 line of attack is going to fall flat. It only works with the media 629 00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:59.679 echo chambers at academia. And that's why if I'm Trump, I'm sitting back 630 00:47:59.719 --> 00:48:02.360 in. The question is can Hump be disciplined enough to exploit this rudely and 631 00:48:02.400 --> 00:48:07.079 not go overboard with his responses? Sorry, I'll shut up there, Lucretia, 632 00:48:07.079 --> 00:48:08.760 and you can deca. I just wanted to ask both of you, 633 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.239 actually, I mean, I thought I probably would have given a similar kind 634 00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:21.800 of analysis of Biden's Satan speech, right, And we all thought that, 635 00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:24.199 I mean I maybe maybe I shouldn't put words in your guys's mouth. I 636 00:48:24.280 --> 00:48:29.440 certainly thought that that was a major, major error on his part. And 637 00:48:29.719 --> 00:48:32.360 guess what we turned out to be if you shook your head, yes, 638 00:48:32.400 --> 00:48:37.280 So I'm saying we I turned out to be utterly wrong about it. I 639 00:48:37.320 --> 00:48:43.239 mean, stupid people out there when voted for Democrats after that speech. I 640 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:47.920 mean, I honestly I couldn't imagine voting for somebody, but but that was 641 00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:52.239 that was what he said, and that's what happened afterwards. And I'm guessing 642 00:48:52.320 --> 00:48:57.920 whoever's pulling the strings there probably said that it's worth trying again. Number one, 643 00:48:58.159 --> 00:49:02.000 Number two. Some of these, some of the lies in his speech 644 00:49:02.119 --> 00:49:06.800 are just so obvious. To give you just one. This is even worse 645 00:49:06.840 --> 00:49:13.039 than something John would say this. He says, this wasn't a group of 646 00:49:13.159 --> 00:49:19.840 tourists. This is an armed insurrection. One of the things that even the 647 00:49:19.920 --> 00:49:22.400 media has not been able to spend. The FBI has not been able to 648 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:30.320 spend. The stupid committee January sixth committee wasn't able to spend. Nobody in 649 00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:35.000 the crowd was armed. They were not armed. And I mean so to 650 00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:38.719 say that and to imply that somehow, you know, this whole violent thing 651 00:49:38.800 --> 00:49:43.360 blah blah blah blah blah are people. Does he think people are just not 652 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:46.400 paying attention or is he talking to people who aren't paying attention. I don't 653 00:49:46.440 --> 00:49:51.199 know, But I don't know. This whole thing between the Claudine Gay and 654 00:49:51.239 --> 00:49:57.400 the Charles Frieds and the all of that. Just believing that if you say 655 00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:00.679 something it automatically means people as people are going to accept it as true, 656 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:06.119 even though it's a baldfaced lie. This seems something so trite to say it, 657 00:50:06.360 --> 00:50:10.519 orwellian, it's so Orwellian. Well, sorry, yeah, go ahead, 658 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:14.079 that's all I really had to say about it. Well, I left 659 00:50:14.079 --> 00:50:15.920 out. I didn't leave it out. I didn't mean to include in the 660 00:50:15.960 --> 00:50:20.480 first place. There are some again survey numbers, and you know, I'm 661 00:50:20.519 --> 00:50:24.840 the first person to bash polls, but it's interesting several surveys showing the narrative 662 00:50:24.880 --> 00:50:30.039 is slipping away from the left, rising number of people who think that there's 663 00:50:30.039 --> 00:50:34.400 something suspicious about it, a rising number of people who rejected the narrative that 664 00:50:34.440 --> 00:50:37.119 this was a deliberate insurrection at the trumpet. So this has to be alarming 665 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:43.239 Democrats in a big way. And then add to this something we mentioned before, 666 00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:45.000 the hypocrisy we see in front of us. So earlier this week in 667 00:50:45.039 --> 00:50:51.800 Sacramento, the opening day of the state legislature was disrupted by pro HAAMAS demonstrators 668 00:50:51.800 --> 00:50:54.840 who crowded the galleries and shouted down the proceedings to the point they had to 669 00:50:54.920 --> 00:51:01.039 adjourn for the day. Was anybody arrested under the criminal statutes about disrupting public 670 00:51:01.079 --> 00:51:05.039 business? I'm pretty sure the answer is no, not a single one. 671 00:51:05.280 --> 00:51:07.400 No one will be prosecuted. It's not going to be lost on people that 672 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:12.519 we're going to enforce the maximum extent of the law against people on January sixth, 673 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:15.760 including people who just walked into the building. In some cases, it 674 00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:19.559 seems it was one thing about people who broke windows and you know, did 675 00:51:19.639 --> 00:51:22.239 vandalism and whatever, But it seems like they were trying to maximize a number 676 00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:25.719 of people they can charge for reasons Lucretia has laid out, which is intimidation, 677 00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:34.079 and then no enforcement of law against the pro homasque demonstrators disrupting legislatures, 678 00:51:34.159 --> 00:51:37.719 disrupting you know, the Golden gate Bridge, et cetera. So at that 679 00:51:37.840 --> 00:51:42.840 is not lost on people that whatever you think of what happened that day and 680 00:51:42.920 --> 00:51:47.159 how it should be thought of, we have once again unequal justice being delivered 681 00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:50.639 in the country. And you know, go ahead, Biden, if you 682 00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:52.840 want to keep pressing that line. I think a lot of people are going 683 00:51:52.880 --> 00:51:58.719 to resent it. So my just quick tick on it was that there's a 684 00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:04.760 big difference between the speech, what Biden says and then what his administration does. 685 00:52:04.920 --> 00:52:08.199 So, yeah, you really thought that Trump was guilty of all the 686 00:52:08.199 --> 00:52:14.639 things that are said then in the speech, Then why hasn't the Justice Apartment 687 00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:19.719 charged Donald Trump with insurrection? Why is it charged him with these uh you 688 00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:24.119 know, you know, I just unprecedented ill fitting charges like defrauding the United 689 00:52:24.119 --> 00:52:30.039 States like he was a medicare provider, or obstructing Congress in the way that 690 00:52:30.920 --> 00:52:36.559 you know, accounting agencies might by destroying documents U this. You know, 691 00:52:36.599 --> 00:52:39.639 the Justice Apartment doesn't think it's an insurrection? Is is? Lucretia has pointed 692 00:52:39.639 --> 00:52:44.400 out to me, none of the people convicted for January six were charged with 693 00:52:44.440 --> 00:52:47.559 sedition or insurrection. Uh, and then just hasn't tried to prove it. 694 00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:51.239 Was there one? Oh yeah, that's like the prowdboy. Yeah, the 695 00:52:51.280 --> 00:52:53.480 pro the Proud Boys guy. One guy. But they didn't, they did 696 00:52:53.519 --> 00:52:58.679 not try to charge all the people with insurrection. And then at the same 697 00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:02.320 time I thought it was And this would lead us to our next story to 698 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:08.599 discuss. If Joe Biden thinks this is a choice of democracy versus authoritarianism, 699 00:53:08.679 --> 00:53:15.440 then why are his members of his party trying to prevent the democracy from voting 700 00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:20.000 on Donald Trump? Right? Why are they using the courts to try to 701 00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.280 take Trump off the ballot? I mean that seems awfully antidemocratic in a way. 702 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:27.840 So, John, I actually want to ask you something about that. 703 00:53:28.960 --> 00:53:32.639 I'm what worries me most about that, that whole thing, along with what 704 00:53:32.760 --> 00:53:37.960 happened in January sixth I see it as a bit of a piece a continuation 705 00:53:38.119 --> 00:53:45.559 that we are fighting. We are fighting these partisan battles in a very different 706 00:53:45.599 --> 00:53:51.400 way than than to me what I what I my reading of history recent and 707 00:53:52.039 --> 00:53:57.840 even you know, you know, early constitutional days. It's one thing to 708 00:53:58.239 --> 00:54:01.079 make up lies about your opponent, it's you know, all of these other 709 00:54:01.159 --> 00:54:12.480 things, but to manipulate the levers of government against your political opponent, which 710 00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:15.360 is what I think Biden is doing. Like you say, if he really 711 00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:22.239 believed that there was an insurrection caused by Trump, there is every capability of 712 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:27.280 prosecuting Trump for that. But on the other hand, all of these prosecutions, 713 00:54:27.320 --> 00:54:30.960 what are we up to eighty one or ninety charges now felony charges against 714 00:54:30.960 --> 00:54:38.480 Trump across the different indictments and so forth. At some point it's only going 715 00:54:38.519 --> 00:54:44.519 to be people like us and our very intelligent listeners who understand the difference between 716 00:54:44.559 --> 00:54:52.320 all of those ninety one charges and an actual charge of insurrection being prosecuted in 717 00:54:52.400 --> 00:54:59.679 him being convicted of that charge. So I think that that how do I 718 00:54:59.719 --> 00:55:02.280 say this. The comment you made is almost a little naive. I think 719 00:55:02.480 --> 00:55:09.000 Biden knows exactly what he's doing. And the more they can talk about indictments, 720 00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:13.880 the more they can talk about felonies, that Trump can is going to 721 00:55:13.960 --> 00:55:17.920 be in jail and all of that, even though the people like us who 722 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:22.760 look at it and say there's no there there, it doesn't matter. And 723 00:55:23.880 --> 00:55:27.960 as mister Lucreati used to like to say, you can beat the rat, 724 00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:32.000 but you can't beat the ride, and they're counting on the ride being the 725 00:55:32.039 --> 00:55:37.320 thing that sinks Trump. Whether you're right about the fact that it's not working 726 00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:38.840 as well as it used to, I might agree with that. I just 727 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:44.639 wonder what you thought, Well, you are definitely not going to agree with 728 00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:51.519 what I'm about to say. But I think actually both Trump and Biden are 729 00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:57.719 exaggerating what January sixth was. So Trump is out there now saying, I 730 00:55:57.719 --> 00:56:01.239 mean he's gotten you know, he's you know, he's doubled down on January 731 00:56:01.239 --> 00:56:07.119 sixth, or he is now saying that this was a legitimate exercise to try 732 00:56:07.159 --> 00:56:12.320 to stop, you know, a stolen election from being legitimized. And he's 733 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.760 calling he's now calling January people convicted January six as heroes. He's just used 734 00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:20.840 that phrase, So I think I don't think that's what January sixth was. 735 00:56:21.119 --> 00:56:23.800 But I also think Biden is exaggerating the other direction by calling it an insurrection. 736 00:56:24.039 --> 00:56:27.800 I mean, this was I mean, this isn't The Civil War was 737 00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:31.559 an insurrection. This was not an insurrection. This was just right. This 738 00:56:31.639 --> 00:56:37.599 is just something going to be handled by normal criminal prosecution when it's required. 739 00:56:37.639 --> 00:56:40.639 But I think Biden, so I hear, I agree with you. I 740 00:56:40.679 --> 00:56:45.719 think Biden is going to press this line because he's taunting Trump. He's hoping 741 00:56:45.199 --> 00:56:52.320 he's trying to get Trump to explode and say something right, unwarranted and crazy. 742 00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:57.159 He's trying to get him to lose his temper in public. That's what 743 00:56:57.280 --> 00:57:00.800 that's That's what I think this speech was all about. Maybe it'll work. 744 00:57:00.000 --> 00:57:02.519 I don't know, but because I do, I do, I don't. 745 00:57:02.639 --> 00:57:06.559 I mean, I do see these polls that are out today and this week 746 00:57:06.599 --> 00:57:10.679 that say that a majority of Republicans now believe, as Lucretia was arguing just 747 00:57:10.760 --> 00:57:15.880 a few weeks ago, that January six was a lot of there were a 748 00:57:15.920 --> 00:57:21.039 lot of FBI agents involved, and that January sixth was not necessarily right, 749 00:57:21.199 --> 00:57:25.559 a illegal conspiracy to stop the peaceful transfer of power. I don't happen to 750 00:57:25.599 --> 00:57:30.320 agree with that, but I do think that both sides are exaggerating what January 751 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:35.480 six was for their own purposes. Yeah, see lucreatia John has followed me 752 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:39.599 what I call the David Brooks disease of both sides is no, no, 753 00:57:39.639 --> 00:57:44.320 it's not just I just I just don't think January six was an insurrection. 754 00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:47.920 But I don't think it was a legitimate protest either. I think it was 755 00:57:47.960 --> 00:57:52.079 just sort of any trespassing in crime, it's just a riot. Well to 756 00:57:52.760 --> 00:57:57.079 maybe maybe last point, it's probably not first. You know, I've given 757 00:57:57.119 --> 00:58:00.079 the thought experiment before, what if there not been the January six incident and 758 00:58:00.119 --> 00:58:04.519 that Trump would be ten to fifteen points ahead, they'd be like twenty points 759 00:58:04.519 --> 00:58:07.199 ahead exactly. But now let's try another thought experiment. What if you'd had 760 00:58:07.199 --> 00:58:12.920 the January sis January sixth protests the way Trump had always described it, which 761 00:58:12.920 --> 00:58:15.719 would show up and make a lot of noise, and there'd been no violence, 762 00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:21.880 no broken windows, no vandalism, no perceived threats against the vice president. 763 00:58:21.920 --> 00:58:25.599 It's just a very suppose suppose no one had entered the Capitol building. 764 00:58:25.679 --> 00:58:30.280 Yeah, yeah, fine, I'll go with that too. My suspicion is 765 00:58:30.480 --> 00:58:34.320 the left, the Democrats, and the media, they would still be freaking 766 00:58:34.320 --> 00:58:37.320 out about it, and they would they wouldn't be able to use the insurrection 767 00:58:37.440 --> 00:58:40.760 language, but they'd be rapped the water's edge on this course. They wouldn't 768 00:58:42.719 --> 00:58:44.920 well, well, well, I don't think they would. Well, they 769 00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:46.920 wouldn't lie. Okay. The point is is, I think then the dynamic 770 00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:52.199 would be different too. But that raises the second contradiction here. The first 771 00:58:52.400 --> 00:58:58.000 wasn't the contradiction, but the contradiction at the heart of progressive ism from the 772 00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.840 very beginning a hundred years ago under Wilson. On the one hand, they 773 00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:04.280 said, we want more democracy, that's why we want reform, we want 774 00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.239 more primaries, direct democracy, recalls that kind of thing, ballot initiatives. 775 00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:12.880 And on the other hand, their theory said more and more government must be 776 00:59:12.960 --> 00:59:17.760 done by experts who are insulated from political accountability and from the vicissitudes of changing 777 00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:22.719 electoral fortunes. Those two things don't go together. They do, and you 778 00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:27.119 think they do, Oh yeah, they absolutely do. You're missing Explain that 779 00:59:27.159 --> 00:59:34.239 to me because social element of progressivism is that more democracy. But what more 780 00:59:34.239 --> 00:59:39.800 democracy means is the will of the people led by those experts and by those 781 00:59:42.239 --> 00:59:45.800 leaders. First, of course, Tom Wilson, it was congressional government. 782 00:59:45.000 --> 00:59:51.880 Then of course it becomes presidential government. But it's never about, you know, 783 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:58.679 sort of enlightened statesmen at the helm. It's always about basically somebody leading 784 00:59:58.679 --> 01:00:05.400 a bunch of sheep around and having the backing of democracy, not representation, 785 01:00:05.599 --> 01:00:12.719 but democracy, the will versus the enlightened representation of the people. I get 786 01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:16.800 that. That's the that's the Hagel and Rousseau part of progressivism. I've never 787 01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:22.679 thought that that that that was comprehended very well by the people at large. 788 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:29.440 I think you have to be intellectual like us to see that attempt rulers. 789 01:00:29.960 --> 01:00:32.599 Yes, I mean right, I mean this is one reason why Biden or 790 01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:37.920 Obama or name any liberal president has no trouble at all saying I'm for democracy 791 01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.559 and I'm also for experts ruling you against your will without your consent. Right 792 01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:47.519 that Okay, that's my point, So let me let's let's uh move to 793 01:00:47.559 --> 01:00:51.920 a third the third issue, last issue for our packet. That's quite related 794 01:00:51.960 --> 01:00:55.079 though, I mean, this has been a very busy day today. The 795 01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:00.280 Supreme Court at the end of the day announced it would here the Caller Rado 796 01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:06.480 Supreme Court case about whether Trump can be disqualified from the ballot under the fourteenth 797 01:01:06.519 --> 01:01:10.440 Amendment. We've talked about on the show, the Fourteenth Amendments, Section three 798 01:01:10.599 --> 01:01:17.559 claim which are the Colorado Supreme Court eventually agreed with that Trump was involved with 799 01:01:17.679 --> 01:01:25.199 in insurrection so therefore could not run for the presidency. Steve, Actually, 800 01:01:25.239 --> 01:01:30.880 we just heard from Lucretia. What do you think about the court? Grant 801 01:01:30.559 --> 01:01:34.559 you, John, if you're interested in what you think, because I was 802 01:01:34.639 --> 01:01:42.079 reading part of what the what Trump's lawyers were arguing to the court, and 803 01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:46.079 I'm wondering, however, you know in their appeal whether the court will even 804 01:01:46.199 --> 01:01:51.760 consider any of those things. You know that this is not the definition of 805 01:01:51.760 --> 01:01:58.320 democracy and state court that insurrection should never be decided by state courts. You 806 01:01:58.360 --> 01:02:00.719 know, Congress is the one who should make the termination. Do you think 807 01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:07.360 that the Supreme Court will actually drill down into any of those kinds of issues 808 01:02:07.480 --> 01:02:13.440 or do you think they'll find a very easy, relatively uncontroversial There's no way 809 01:02:13.440 --> 01:02:15.079 they're not going to find for Trump in this case, in my opinion, 810 01:02:15.119 --> 01:02:20.320 I really can't see it any other way. If they do, oh, 811 01:02:20.400 --> 01:02:22.480 it's going to be tough to be around Lucretia for a while. But what 812 01:02:22.559 --> 01:02:30.239 I am can I point out Lucretia If they actually agree with Colorado, they 813 01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:35.320 will basically be saying that Trump was an insurrectionist and he will be banned from 814 01:02:35.360 --> 01:02:38.639 all fifty states ballots out of finding the other will effectively end the election. 815 01:02:39.519 --> 01:02:43.039 I mean, the election will continue, but it will have to be disantas 816 01:02:43.079 --> 01:02:45.519 or Hale, but Trump will be able to run. Well. Well, 817 01:02:45.519 --> 01:02:52.159 I have two questions for you payback. One is important fact they're they're agreeing 818 01:02:52.159 --> 01:02:54.079 to an accelerated schedule for oil argument, like in a month from now, 819 01:02:54.199 --> 01:02:58.880 right, And yeah, oil argument is going to be on February eighth, 820 01:02:58.960 --> 01:03:01.679 which is incredible. Yeah, but you've got to have a little bit of 821 01:03:01.679 --> 01:03:06.880 time for lawyers to make serious arguments. And so I'm thinking the briefs are 822 01:03:06.960 --> 01:03:13.920 due in thirteen days. Yeah, okay for the for Trump's right, Well, 823 01:03:14.559 --> 01:03:17.000 the point is is, uh, the question is it sounds to me 824 01:03:17.159 --> 01:03:21.239 like go see what you could think I am. My hunch is that are 825 01:03:21.239 --> 01:03:23.199 going to want to rule very quickly on this, like that in Bush by 826 01:03:23.199 --> 01:03:27.119 Gore, because time is of the essence, you know, the Bush Bey 827 01:03:27.199 --> 01:03:30.599 Gore case on the longer they take, the more they are interfering. Correct. 828 01:03:30.800 --> 01:03:34.320 But then the second question is, in my case, I'm with an 829 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:37.039 increase on this. I can't see any other outcome but that Colorado will be 830 01:03:37.079 --> 01:03:42.760 rebuffed. But my question is, you know, the political one. Is 831 01:03:42.800 --> 01:03:44.960 it going to be nine to zero, which is what it ought to be, 832 01:03:45.599 --> 01:03:47.119 or is it going to be a six to three partisan split the way 833 01:03:47.159 --> 01:03:51.639 Bush v. Gore came down, which is going to you know, settle 834 01:03:51.679 --> 01:03:53.639 the matter in the their term, But it's going to lead to a lot 835 01:03:53.679 --> 01:03:58.239 of the left is going to go nuts about the quarry and so forth. 836 01:03:58.719 --> 01:04:00.719 And so I mean that's there. This is a good blowback for Charles Free. 837 01:04:00.760 --> 01:04:03.400 The question there is are the three Democrats going to side there part of 838 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:08.679 some loyalty is more important than actually standing up for a proper separation of power 839 01:04:08.679 --> 01:04:12.280 and all the other principles or or well, Lucrezia's question is are they going 840 01:04:12.320 --> 01:04:15.800 to rule on some narrow ground of voice, so narrow that Roberts can get 841 01:04:15.800 --> 01:04:18.760 a nine zero opinion on it? Yeah, right, So what are your 842 01:04:18.840 --> 01:04:24.719 expectations. Well, I would think the Court's easiest thing to do happens to 843 01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:28.079 be the right thing to do, which is just to say the provision doesn't 844 01:04:28.079 --> 01:04:31.960 apply to the presidency. It's just so obviously correct that, I mean, 845 01:04:32.000 --> 01:04:38.320 this is but it also provides the potential ground for a unanimous opinion. And 846 01:04:38.519 --> 01:04:42.480 it also the Core won't have to make a decision about whether Trump participate in 847 01:04:42.480 --> 01:04:46.960 insurrection or whether there was even an insurrection. It could just say whatever happened, 848 01:04:47.559 --> 01:04:51.880 whatever Trump did, it doesn't matter because this provision just doesn't apply to 849 01:04:51.920 --> 01:04:56.559 people who were president or people who are running for president. And that's but 850 01:04:56.599 --> 01:05:00.400 I also think that is the correct answer. Yeah, and the subtext areas, 851 01:05:00.840 --> 01:05:03.119 there's this thing called impeachment. People, if you've done your job, 852 01:05:03.239 --> 01:05:06.840 we wouldn't be in a sticky wicket. Yeah. And look, this is 853 01:05:06.840 --> 01:05:12.559 the other thing is it goes to Lucretia's point also earlier that uh, right, 854 01:05:12.639 --> 01:05:15.400 if people thought that Trump committed insurrection, there's plenty of ways to go 855 01:05:15.480 --> 01:05:20.599 after him. There was an impeachment for Trump having been involved with an insurrection, 856 01:05:20.719 --> 01:05:28.280 and he was acquitted by the Senate. That is the only decision he 857 01:05:28.400 --> 01:05:32.199 was he was impeached. He was impeached by the House for incitement to insurrection, 858 01:05:32.599 --> 01:05:38.840 but incitement of insurrection. But then, but know, it's the only 859 01:05:40.400 --> 01:05:44.719 the only decision by any branch of the federal government about Trump being an insurrectionist 860 01:05:44.960 --> 01:05:48.079 was his acquittal by the Senate. Yeah, right, not been charged in 861 01:05:48.199 --> 01:05:53.159 any other proceeding by federal government of insurrections. So that I think is the 862 01:05:53.199 --> 01:05:56.079 easiest way out for the Supreme Court and what they could likely do, and 863 01:05:56.079 --> 01:05:58.679 they could do it fast, because, as you both pointed out, the 864 01:05:58.719 --> 01:06:04.000 primary calendar is chugging along. Yeah, But what do you think about I 865 01:06:04.000 --> 01:06:10.960 think the other question, though, is do you think this or tends a 866 01:06:11.000 --> 01:06:15.039 greater role for the Supreme Court in the elections, Because this is just the 867 01:06:15.079 --> 01:06:16.280 first of other things, Right, they are going to be called upon to 868 01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:24.320 decide about Trump and immunity from prosecution. There might be other questions that come 869 01:06:24.400 --> 01:06:27.920 out of you know, can he be even prosecuted in Georgia at all as 870 01:06:27.960 --> 01:06:32.440 a federal official by a state government and so on? Do you think this 871 01:06:32.480 --> 01:06:38.760 is a good idea for the Court to intervene in? But I think the 872 01:06:38.840 --> 01:06:43.320 question has to go a little lower and that is I mean, it's a 873 01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:46.440 lawfair, it's lawfare. And so if you're going to turn every one of 874 01:06:46.480 --> 01:06:51.039 these political battles into a legal battle that ends up in court at lower courts, 875 01:06:51.519 --> 01:07:00.639 with our distributed federal system of courts judiciaries across the United States, with 876 01:07:00.920 --> 01:07:04.440 you know, we've discussed briefly the difference, say between the Colorado Supreme Court 877 01:07:04.480 --> 01:07:09.199 that's elected and so on and so forth, you're going to end up with 878 01:07:10.119 --> 01:07:14.679 when when you want to turn these political questions into legal questions, you're going 879 01:07:14.760 --> 01:07:18.639 to end up with a lot of different opinions and whatever else we expect the 880 01:07:18.679 --> 01:07:24.119 Supreme Court to do in matters that involve the whole United States, when you 881 01:07:24.199 --> 01:07:28.000 have differences of opinion on important matters, we expect the Supreme Court to help 882 01:07:28.079 --> 01:07:30.440 us handle that, right, We help this. We expect the Supreme Court 883 01:07:30.559 --> 01:07:36.719 to decide between differing circuit opinions by differing circuits and so on. And so 884 01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:41.519 I'm the Supreme Court and I want to stay out of politics. And I'm 885 01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:44.400 looking I think Steve might have said this, one of you guys said it 886 01:07:44.480 --> 01:07:47.119 last time, because I heard you. I'm on the Supreme Court, I'm 887 01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:51.159 gonna be pissed about this. What the hell are you guys doing sending all 888 01:07:51.159 --> 01:07:57.440 of these ridiculous political cases, making them ultimately something that the Supreme Court has 889 01:07:57.480 --> 01:08:01.000 to decide instead of handling them in politics like you're supposed to. Is that 890 01:08:01.159 --> 01:08:08.760 unfair? John? Well me so. Lucretious point is the Court has to 891 01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:13.440 intervene to get the courts out of the election because all these lower courts are 892 01:08:13.480 --> 01:08:17.159 sticking their noses in and prosecutors too, and it's the Court's traditional job is 893 01:08:17.199 --> 01:08:23.560 to restrain the power of government, then states and prosecutors. So Lucretia's point 894 01:08:23.600 --> 01:08:26.880 is if the lower courts weren't screwing this up so badly, then the Supreme 895 01:08:26.960 --> 01:08:30.680 Court wouldn't have to get evolved. Yeah, I see. I just keep 896 01:08:30.000 --> 01:08:33.199 my mind keeps running back of that line of Tokville's, which I don't quite 897 01:08:33.199 --> 01:08:36.560 remember exactly, but it runs something like, sooner or later in America, 898 01:08:36.680 --> 01:08:41.920 all political questions become judicial questions, and it's taken a while, but here 899 01:08:41.920 --> 01:08:45.600 we are. So I'm not surprised for at this point. I think that's 900 01:08:45.600 --> 01:08:48.640 a bit trite, Steve. I think this is of a difference. That's 901 01:08:48.640 --> 01:08:53.680 my specialty. I know, I don't say that to be insulting. I 902 01:08:53.720 --> 01:08:57.960 really don't. I think this is different. I really do. How so 903 01:08:58.079 --> 01:09:01.079 I think this is different? Well, I mean I think Busha's versus Gore 904 01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:08.720 was probably an early indicator of this bad kind of situation. You know, 905 01:09:09.079 --> 01:09:14.520 I don't want to go in and we're running really long. But I don't 906 01:09:14.640 --> 01:09:20.279 think there has been this attempt across so many different venues and jurisdictions and so 907 01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:28.000 on, to turn these political electoral questions into judicial questions. I mean, 908 01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:33.159 remember, prior to I'll get my case right Baker versus car Court, the 909 01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:39.319 courts said we stay out of these kinds of questions. These are political questions 910 01:09:39.319 --> 01:09:43.640 for the political branches to decide. And so I mean, that's in the 911 01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.920 scheme of things, that's not that long ago, and so I don't necessarily 912 01:09:47.319 --> 01:09:50.159 think that in the same way that what Steve was talking about, I do 913 01:09:50.239 --> 01:09:54.239 agree with it. Every political question kind of ends up a legal question in 914 01:09:54.319 --> 01:10:00.279 narsis in American constitutional society call it that. But this is of a different 915 01:10:00.359 --> 01:10:03.560 character to me, it really is. And maybe you know, maybe I'm 916 01:10:03.600 --> 01:10:10.079 just I'm just grumpy or something, but I don't never I mean, I 917 01:10:10.079 --> 01:10:14.720 see this, I see it similar to Bush versus Gore, that whole debacle 918 01:10:14.760 --> 01:10:17.960 in Florida. But remember too, what happened there. Florida fixed itself, 919 01:10:19.560 --> 01:10:24.199 not because it got some sort of court order from the Supreme I know that 920 01:10:24.319 --> 01:10:27.840 that was the election that had to be resolved right then and there, that 921 01:10:27.880 --> 01:10:34.239 there wasn't time. But it was ultimately a political solution to a political problem 922 01:10:34.319 --> 01:10:38.760 in Florida, not to the election itself, but to the way the election 923 01:10:38.960 --> 01:10:45.000 was conducted. And I don't see political solutions to a lot of these problems 924 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.840 that are being brought up. I see the attempt to go to the right 925 01:10:48.920 --> 01:10:55.920 kind of court to get the right kind of verdict for your side, you 926 01:10:55.960 --> 01:11:00.119 know, the right judges, the right verdict court judge, shopping and all 927 01:11:00.159 --> 01:11:01.960 that other stuff. So anyway, I won't say any more about it. 928 01:11:03.640 --> 01:11:11.319 So there, don silence John. Do you guys really disagree with me but 929 01:11:11.439 --> 01:11:14.960 that you don't see this as different? No? I think I agree with 930 01:11:15.000 --> 01:11:19.399 that. Yeah, So we have gone long, and we were we had 931 01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:27.399 on the docket a fourth issue, the release of the Epstein list, But 932 01:11:27.920 --> 01:11:30.439 I don't know if we need to talk about that or whether we could talk 933 01:11:30.479 --> 01:11:36.119 about it very quickly. Another issue I think we should two more issues that 934 01:11:36.159 --> 01:11:44.720 we should flag for next time is Lucretia has Lucretia is our dutiful three whiskey 935 01:11:44.760 --> 01:11:50.119 happy hour archivist, and she says we have long promised a discussion on the 936 01:11:50.239 --> 01:11:56.560 establishment clause and the free exercise of religion clause, and whether Jefferson's statement about 937 01:11:56.920 --> 01:12:01.399 separation of church and state was really accurate as a national law. You brought 938 01:12:01.439 --> 01:12:06.760 it up. You're the one who said it, John, whether or not 939 01:12:08.119 --> 01:12:12.159 freedom of religion is a natural right, freedom of conscious freedom of religion. 940 01:12:12.199 --> 01:12:15.000 That's where we kind of left it, and so we ought to like that. 941 01:12:15.199 --> 01:12:20.560 Also, I also thought totally ignored by the press today because of the 942 01:12:20.600 --> 01:12:28.920 grant of cert on the Colorado disqualification case. The court granted an abortion case 943 01:12:29.000 --> 01:12:34.439 today, and Steve and I actually we wrote a series of pieces at the 944 01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:38.800 time of the leak of the Dobbs opinion, and Steve, I think quite 945 01:12:38.800 --> 01:12:44.239 preciently included a piece about how this would not get the court out of abortion 946 01:12:44.880 --> 01:12:46.479 that court is going to continue to have decide about. And this is a 947 01:12:46.479 --> 01:12:50.800 great example of this, because a court granted sert today on whether the federal 948 01:12:51.000 --> 01:13:00.159 government's regulation of hospitals can allows it to require hospitals as a price of receiving 949 01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:05.920 federal funding and federal support and federal regulatory approval, to provide abortions if medically 950 01:13:05.960 --> 01:13:13.520 necessary, whether they override state anti abortion loss so that's a normal Yeah, 951 01:13:13.680 --> 01:13:19.800 would be a huge issue, but not today. And the case involves Idaho. 952 01:13:19.840 --> 01:13:23.920 It should be said, right Idaho, which you know, so they're 953 01:13:23.960 --> 01:13:28.680 picking on states where you know anti abortion feeling is the strongest. So yeah, 954 01:13:28.840 --> 01:13:32.960 that shows you where the wilfulness is on this thing. So all I 955 01:13:33.000 --> 01:13:39.319 want to say about the Epstein list is it's been a profound disappointment, very 956 01:13:39.399 --> 01:13:48.520 much like watching Heraldo Rivera open up al Capone's vault. So far, anyway, 957 01:13:49.079 --> 01:13:51.800 that's all I have to say about it. I'm still, like most 958 01:13:51.840 --> 01:14:00.239 people, amazed that is Lane Maxwell went to jail for sex trafficking children to 959 01:14:00.399 --> 01:14:03.319 nobody. Yeah, but I am surprised that the Cholera of Supreme Court didn't 960 01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:08.720 require that Bill Clinton's name be taken off the Epstein client list. That was 961 01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:15.079 one thing that So to get you guys out of this podcast, I'm only 962 01:14:15.119 --> 01:14:19.319 going to be reading from one Babylon Bee today. And that's the Babylon Bee 963 01:14:19.359 --> 01:14:24.840 that came out today. The ten most shocking revelations from the Epstein documents. 964 01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:27.680 I'm not going to read them all, but a couple of them are actually 965 01:14:27.760 --> 01:14:32.359 very, very good. The Babylon Bees compiled the following list of some of 966 01:14:32.399 --> 01:14:36.720 the more shocking revelations. Bill Clinton Number one. Bill Clinton was only mentioned 967 01:14:36.760 --> 01:14:44.159 fifty times. Everyone figured that number would be way higher. The most frequent 968 01:14:44.239 --> 01:14:47.399 visitor to the island was a guy named John Doe. What a sicko. 969 01:14:50.479 --> 01:14:56.199 All the billionaires kept accidentally grabbing Bill Gates boobs. Gates is rumored to be 970 01:14:56.239 --> 01:15:00.359 cooking up a new virus to get revenge. Wait, just a couple more. 971 01:15:00.560 --> 01:15:05.359 Chris Christy was banned from the island after the buffet incident. Rumor has 972 01:15:05.399 --> 01:15:11.199 it the island was never able to fully restock the kitchen. David Copperfield was 973 01:15:11.279 --> 01:15:16.159 unable to make his name disappear. Some magician he is. And finally Epstein 974 01:15:16.359 --> 01:15:23.119 actually did kill himself. He knew, oh no, this is this story 975 01:15:23.159 --> 01:15:26.039 is not over. It's going to go on forever. So do you ever 976 01:15:26.119 --> 01:15:30.399 any good camalisms this holidays? So the ECONML has been quiet, although she's 977 01:15:30.840 --> 01:15:35.960 lucretia like this. She is apparently going to give a big speech tomorrow on 978 01:15:36.079 --> 01:15:42.319 the anniversary of January sixth in South Carolina, where she's expected to go even 979 01:15:42.439 --> 01:15:45.560 harder at Donald Trump than President Biden did today. But we don't have those 980 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.000 remarks yet. We've just got some previous stories running here and there. So 981 01:15:49.239 --> 01:15:54.640 what I did, actually, this was an interesting exercise for a commalism. 982 01:15:54.680 --> 01:15:57.760 I did not rely on the media to identify it. I just pulled up, 983 01:15:58.399 --> 01:16:02.199 I think the most recent speech on the White House website remarks by Vice 984 01:16:02.199 --> 01:16:06.239 President Harris a culinary workers even in Local two two six in Las Vegas, 985 01:16:06.760 --> 01:16:12.960 which she gave two days ago. I highly recommend it to everybody. But 986 01:16:13.079 --> 01:16:15.680 it just, you know, the thing is, there's so many commalisms in 987 01:16:15.760 --> 01:16:19.920 every speech she gives. That's the thing. I mean, here's just like 988 01:16:20.000 --> 01:16:24.560 she starts it out with saying, Elena, I guess this is the person 989 01:16:24.560 --> 01:16:28.760 who introduced her. I'm telling you you just you are just nothing but power. 990 01:16:28.840 --> 01:16:30.239 You are just full on power. I mean, just so powerful. 991 01:16:30.319 --> 01:16:33.359 Thank you. And it goes on. I mean, there's just so many 992 01:16:33.399 --> 01:16:38.239 different things I could pull. Here's a nice one. Then she says I 993 01:16:38.279 --> 01:16:42.479 think Attorney General Ford, thank you for what you do on behalf of working 994 01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:45.600 people, because the power of law can be very persuasive when necessary to talk 995 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:48.920 about what is right and what is consistent with the values that we hold dear 996 01:16:48.960 --> 01:16:56.239 as a shrine in the Constitution. Yeah, I'm a sip now, John, 997 01:16:56.279 --> 01:17:00.159 thank you. Here's one last one. It is the work of understanding 998 01:17:00.199 --> 01:17:03.520 that, especially in these moments in time where you know a lot of people 999 01:17:03.520 --> 01:17:08.119 are feeling really alone, and when you feel alone, you feel powerless. 1000 01:17:09.560 --> 01:17:13.359 So she's now, you know, you know, veering off into psychobabble. 1001 01:17:13.600 --> 01:17:15.880 You know. Anyway, So those are my komalisms of the week. But 1002 01:17:16.319 --> 01:17:18.680 you know, maybe that's what I'll do from now on is every week I'll 1003 01:17:18.720 --> 01:17:23.159 just pull up her latest speech and just pull out all the pomalisms as she's 1004 01:17:23.479 --> 01:17:27.880 inflicting on audiences everywhere everybody. You know. Fifteen or twenty years ago, 1005 01:17:28.039 --> 01:17:35.439 somebody stumbled across at the UN gift shop the quotable Kofi Anon. I thought, 1006 01:17:35.920 --> 01:17:39.199 you know, in hardcover. I never thought that could be top. 1007 01:17:39.279 --> 01:17:44.720 But we need the quotable Kamala Harris. John, And I remember my old 1008 01:17:44.800 --> 01:17:49.640 mentor had a volume in his Office called the Wit and Wisdom of Spiro Agnew 1009 01:17:49.760 --> 01:17:55.000 and it was all blank pages. That's is funny, It's true, except 1010 01:17:55.880 --> 01:17:59.640 I have to say I did when I was checking I think how far how 1011 01:17:59.640 --> 01:18:02.319 long ago this was? I was checking out of a Borders, which, 1012 01:18:02.520 --> 01:18:08.359 for the younger listeners was a bookstore once upon a time, a huge bookstore. 1013 01:18:08.399 --> 01:18:11.920 Everywhere there were borders, and at the checkout counter there was a tiny 1014 01:18:11.920 --> 01:18:15.039 little book, you know, these little like almost joke books are like five 1015 01:18:15.079 --> 01:18:21.239 inches big. And it was called Wit and Wisdom of Bob Dole. Oh 1016 01:18:21.319 --> 01:18:25.560 I had to buy. And actually it was damn funny. Oh yeah, 1017 01:18:25.640 --> 01:18:28.640 Bob Dole was a funny guy, and it was just filled with all these 1018 01:18:28.720 --> 01:18:32.760 great jokes. The one I still remember most was he gave when at the 1019 01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:39.239 funeral of a president and he saw sitting together Jimmy Carter, Jerry Ford, 1020 01:18:39.279 --> 01:18:42.560 and Richard Nixon, and equipped off the top of his said, he said, 1021 01:18:43.239 --> 01:18:45.800 hear no evil, see no evil and evil equal? Right. Yeah, 1022 01:18:46.079 --> 01:18:50.920 that's a great joke, so so that I have to follow on to 1023 01:18:51.039 --> 01:18:56.319 that. Then, Sorry, John, about this is a breaking protocol with 1024 01:18:56.720 --> 01:19:00.680 a statistic I heard today from Bill Hammer on Fox where he said that or 1025 01:19:00.680 --> 01:19:08.159 maybe it was yesterday he said that no Democrat, let me get this right, 1026 01:19:08.720 --> 01:19:13.239 No talking about Iowa and talking about, you know, whether Nikki Haley 1027 01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:15.359 is going to be able to pull something up in Iowa or Ron Dessent is 1028 01:19:15.399 --> 01:19:21.800 whatever. But no Republican has ever won more than fifty percent of the vote 1029 01:19:21.880 --> 01:19:32.319 in Iowa in a contested caucus except for Bob Dole. Yeah. Really yeah, 1030 01:19:32.359 --> 01:19:36.319 And no one voted for Bob doll that year. I think I did, 1031 01:19:36.439 --> 01:19:42.520 But that's I actually joke about how conservative Asians are because Asians were the 1032 01:19:42.680 --> 01:19:48.000 last minority group to vote Republican and they voted for Bob Dole. The majority 1033 01:19:48.000 --> 01:19:51.279 of Asians voted for Bob Dolean ninety six. And I was like, and 1034 01:19:51.359 --> 01:19:56.520 that was hard because no one voted for Bob Dolan ninety six. That's right, 1035 01:19:57.720 --> 01:20:01.600 Okay, Well let's oh, we drink your whiskey, meat, let's 1036 01:20:01.600 --> 01:20:06.520 go Brandon and Steve. God save the Queen man and our democracy. Apparently, 1037 01:20:08.079 --> 01:20:16.680 why by everybody, bye see you next week. Every day I could 1038 01:20:16.680 --> 01:20:29.800 have prayed to John and he increases a number of flocks by exactly won everybody's 1039 01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:38.520 coming home for lunch these days. Last night there were skinheads on my loan. 1040 01:20:41.720 --> 01:20:48.800 Take the skinheads, bully, take them bully, take the skin heads, 1041 01:20:48.840 --> 01:20:57.520 fully, take them, bully. Some people say that Bowling Alley's got 1042 01:20:57.560 --> 01:21:02.960 big Lanes got, big Lane got. Some people say that bowling Alleys all 1043 01:21:02.960 --> 01:21:08.960 look the same. Love the same, love the same. There's not a 1044 01:21:09.000 --> 01:21:15.359 line that goes here. The rhymes with anything. Had a dream last night, 1045 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:20.479 but I forget what it was, what it was, what it Take 1046 01:21:20.600 --> 01:21:29.800 the skin heads and bulling, take them falling, Take the skinheads and falling 1047 01:21:30.319 --> 01:21:38.399 take them balling. Ricochet joined the conversation