What's up, everybody? Welcome to another episode of Let's Ask Paul, the
podcast where you get to send me Paul Abernathy any question you want on the
National Electrical Code. But all you gotta do is go to Paul Abernathy dot
com. That's the portal, it's already paid for, it's sponsored. We
are here to answer your questions, no matter what they may be. Just
let me know the code cycle. Be very descriptive in your question and I
will either answer it in an email or if selected, on a podcast much
like today's episode, So do me a favor. Go to Paul Abernathy dot
com. Submit your questions. Stop believing what you see on social media or
stop propagating what other people say that they can't back it up with code references.
If you if in your mind you question what they say, then bring
the question to me and let me save the day. Okay, Look,
today's episode is a question. It was submitted about calculations, and the question
that came to me was, Paul, can you explain whether or not an
EVSE is considered an appliance when it comes to applying the standard method calculation?
And if not, what do I have to use to account for the new
EVSE requirements in a load COLC. Okay, very good question. And we
get this this quite a bit because most of the people know that in our
Fasttracks program, we have some forms that you fill out right, you can
do a calculation and you basically go through them and nobody send me an email
about these forms. If you're a fast Track student, you have access to
them. If you're not a Fast Track student, I don't provide them to
you, so don't ask. Unless you're a student, you don't get access
to these. But what these forms do is they let you go systematically through
each one of the stages to do a load calculation, whether it's a single
family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, a non dwelling application like a store or
restaurant or something like that. So these forms really don't have space on there
for just random stuff, and so we haven't really incorporated that. So this
is what makes this question so good because it allows me to tell you at
the end of the day, how you're going to treat these other loads.
And specifically for today's episode, it's being asked about an EVSESE, which is
electric vehicle supply whipment. So this is the equipment that's going to provide the
power to the actual EV vehicle, And so how do you add or account
for that load in your normal, let's say, standard calculation using Part three
of Article two twenty. So that's what we're going to do to going to
do today. We're going to kind of look at it and kind of dig
a little deeper. Now, obviously we're going to start this journey by looking
at the different rules for the different elements under Part three. And so again
I'm in the twenty twenty three edition of the NEC, so this is only
really Germane with the new rule for the evs in the twenty twenty three.
Now I'm going to tell you that it was still a rule in the twenty
twenty NEEC. You just had to know how to apply it. So we'll
talk about that at the end for all of you twenty twenty folks who say,
well, I don't have to account for evse E because it didn't have
a specific code section for it when it came to the load calculation in two
twenty okay, not six twenty five, but in two twenty Well, in
twenty twenty three, we do. But I'm going to show you that it's
still applied to you in the twenty twenty Okay, but you're gonna have to
wait for that because I'm gonna deal with the twenty twenty three folks first,
all right, So let's look at So if you have your code, the
first question that you ask is, can you when you're doing your appliances,
and you know in the standard method, when you have four or more appliances,
that you get to apply a seventy five percent demand factor, right,
it's just already given. But does and that's for appliances, So that's going
to pick up your things your dishwasher, your gar end with sink, waste
disposer, trash compact or all those things that are appliances. Basically they're factory
made. They're made in standardized units and things like that. And you're gonna
say yourself, okay, well, if the EVSESE is made in standardized size,
can I clue them here as an appliance? Right? Well, in
order to be able to get to four more Okay, Well, the twenty
twenty three edition of the NEC made this very clear that that was not the
case. And if you go look at two twenty dot fifty three, and
I'll read it for you so that you can have a better you know,
I know you're driving or you're on the job site, so I'm going to
read it to you. That way, you don't have to crack your codebook
open right now, but I encourage you to go look at it at a
later date. IS two twenty dont fifty three says applying a demand factor of
seventy five percent to the name plate rating load of four or more appliances that
are rated a quarter horse power or greater. Okay, so a quarter horse
power or greater, or five hundred watts or greater that are fastened in place
and that are served by this same feeder or service in a one family,
two family, or multi family dwelling shall be permitted. Okay. Now it
says this demand factor shall not apply to the following. So this is basically
saying, okay, these are specific things that may or may not meet a
category of being like an appliance, but they're specifically telling you these specific five
things cannot be added into this allowance to be considered for this seventy five percent
demand. Okay, So these aren't included. So the first one is household
cooking electric cooking equipment that is fastened in place. Okay, cook tops,
things like that. That is already taken care of in two twenty fifty five.
Right, no sense, And you're gonna already get some abilities to apply
some demands there saying, so don't even worry about that. Clothes dryers,
same thing to twenty fifty four is already going to have something figured in for
you, so you can include it here. Uh, space heating equipment and
air conditioning equipment. We already have rules. We're gonna have to deal with
that. And again we'll we'll look at the non coincident loads and two twenty
sixty and all that and determine which is larger if there actually are non coincident
loads. By the way, there are occasions where they may not be like
a heat pump. So at the end of the day, you don't consider
space heating equipment. You don't consider the air conditioning equipment as part of this
allowance in two twenty fifty three. Now, the last one is new for
the twenty twenty three edition of the NEC, and that is EVS Electric Vehicle
Supply Equipment. This is the equipment that is supplying the power to charge the
EV vehicle. So it makes it very clear that this is not to be
included in that ability to apply a demand factor of seventy five percent okay doesn't
apply. It also makes it very clear by the way in this when we
changed it, to make sure that the motors were at least you know,
when you're looking at it, it had to be a quarter horsepower greater or
five hundred wats or greater. This was to also be honest with you,
the allow of people to not to game the system. And what I mean
by gaming the system is this did not let people incorporate things like small bathroom
ventilating fans and try to get to that that four or more. Like they
may have only had three appliances, right, but they can say, oh
wait a minute, I had four bathroom fans. I can add those as
in appliants. No, that was not the intent. And they're going to
be less than five hundred watts or they're going to be a horsepower rating is
going to be less than a quarter horsepower. Okay, So at the end
they might be something like a one sixth of a horsepower or something like that.
Anyway, the point of the is that you have five specific things,
and you have the small appliances or small motors for example, that would not
typically be included in this reduction. Okay, So that's important part to remember.
And so the quarter horsepower are greater, or five hundred wats are greater,
that came in a couple of cycles ago. So to try to capture
that and not let people kind of game the system on those small little quote
appliances, motors or whatnot. So all we really saw in the twenty twenty
three was the ev s E. Now you still have to count for that
load. Okay, So just because you're not able to apply demand here,
you still have to account for it now where you want to count for it,
and you know that's that's that's up to you. But at the end
of the day, there are some specific situations, right, and so look
for the appliances that are fastening place other than the ones that we mentioned.
The feeder capacity must prove for the sum of these loads. If the total
load includes again four more appliances, then I can apply that seventy five percent
demand factor. Again remembering that the small motors like ventilating fans and bathrooms and
things like that are not going to be an appliance that gets counted when you're
trying to apply this seventy five percent. We're clear, okay, just want
to make sure that we're clear on all that. Now, what in the
code was added to say? Okay, I get all that, but I
need you to give me something for these EVSE loads. Now, this is
provided that you actually have the intent to install evsee. If you're not,
then this doesn't apply. But look here, let's look at it. In
the twenty twenty three a new code section was added, section fifty seven for
Article two twenty and it's titled Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment Load, and it says
the EVSE load shall be calculated at either seventy two hundred watts. And again
remember watts is equivalent to VA, so seventy two hundred watts or the name
plate rating of the equipment, whichever is larger. So what that tells me
is that in my calculation, ultimately I am going to apply seventy two hundred
watts if I don't know what my EVSSE is going to be, and if
I do know my EVSSE, then I'm installing. And it has a name
plate and the value of the rating of that nameplate value is larger than seventy
two hundred, then that's what I'm going to use. I'm going to use
the the whatever is larger scenario and work that into my calculation. Okay,
do that makes sense? So you have to account for it? Okay?
Okay, So now what people ask me, and they say, okay,
well we get this clear direction in the twenty twenty three. Now when it
comes to EVSESE and whether you have it or not, and if you do,
any intention is to have it. And again that's where it seems like
everybody's going that way, right they want this evs this push for electric vehicles.
Okay, So if you're designing the building or you're designing it and the
intent is to have an EVSESE, I know a guy just building a house
down here, not far from me, and he's putting it in EVSE.
He's putting it all in, whether he owns a vehicle or not, he's
putting the circuit in and so going he's an example of well, then he's
going to have to account for it. And it would be seventy two hundred
watts or whatever the equipment. He doesn't have any equipment, So in this
case he's going to put use the seventy two hundred in his low calculation.
Okay. Now, one of the things to remember here is if you were
going back to the twenty twenty code, people say, well, I get
that direction in the twenty twenty three, but what direction do I get in
the twenty twenty for the EVSE Okay, Well, firstly, we're gonna remember
that inside of part two, which again Part three says you take values from
part two to use in part three, and additional demands could be applied in
part three. But you're taking values from part two, and in this case
you would look at two twenty dot fourteen, and we're gonna look at a
Specifically A says specific appliances or loads. Now that's important because whether you argue
it's an appliance or not, it is a specific load obviously for an EVSESE.
Now people say, well, if there's nothing nifty in the code that
specifically says it like it does in A twenty twenty three, then you don't
have to apply it. That's not true. A load is a load.
You still got to account for the load. You just can't add all these
loads and not account for that. And you're conductor sizing, you're service sizing.
You've got to account for these things. So if you know you're putting
an EVS in, then you go here and you go say, okay,
well i'm doing this load, calc. I've got to fit it in here
somewhere. And so you've got two twenty dot fourteen A that says an outlet
for a specific appliance or other load. And remember, don't be one of
those whack jobs who think an outlet is only a receptacle that is a device.
An outlet is the point in the system where we take power. So
it could be this ev SSE is ran to a junction box that is sitting
there in your garage. That is the outlet to which you will take power
from to supply the EVSE equipment. So that is your outlet. Okay,
whether it's just a junction box sitting there or whatnot, that is it.
That is the outlet. Okay, now it is going to be. It
says here clearly, it says an outlet for specific appliance or other load.
Not covered into forty dot fourteen B through M. And these EVS are not
covered in that, so all the way down to M they're not covered.
So that's why you're using a And then it says shall be calculated based on
the ampur rating of the appliance or the load served. So that means that,
look, what is the load served. It's going to be the rating
of the specific EVSEE that you're going to be utilizing, right, and that
is your load. So it is already in here. Okay, it's it's
just been defined and has a minimum value in the twenty twenty three, whereas
here in the twenty twenty it's just saying, you know what, take the
rating of the actual equipment and you're going to incorporate that in. Now,
nothing says that you have to put an evse E in unless you're in California
or somewhere where they may write it into a local rule or a local ordinance
or you have to account for it or something anywhere else in the country.
Yeah. No, But if you building a house and you know that you're
going to put an outlet in to the point where you could connect to an
EVSESE system, then you're going to have to account for either seventy two hundred
minimum VA or you're going to do the name plate whichever is larger. And
presumably if you know the type of charging equipment that you're going to use,
then you can be a little proactive and you can go see what the rating
is on that equipment, could do that right, Okay, So hopefully that
answers that question on that. So it's more important to me that you understand
that there is loads that do have to be account for. And even if
the code or the NEC is not as nifty as you'd like it to be,
if you know of these loads, they then you have to account for
these loads. You just can't say they don't exist, all right, especially
when you're sizing. You want to make sure that your service as size.
Right now, with that said, it's a little easier to do this under
the optional method, right because if I was doing a optional method and I
was just doing the dwelling unit right and I was doing the optional then it's
pretty simple to follow to twenty dot eighty two A and then B and B
gets down to three, which is nameplate rating, and it says all appliances
that are fast into place, permanently connected, or located on a specific circuit
which this would be. Then I just simply take the name plate and again,
as you know, you add up all these name plates, and in
this case you're able to actually apply the demands to that, that is,
the first ten thousand at one hundred percent and then the remainder, then the
remainder at forty percent, So this would be incorporated in there. So you
get quite a nice lumped in demand here for this. So nine times out
of ten are probably even close to ten out of ten. Nobody's going to
do the standard method anyway, They're going to do the optional method. And
remember it just gets the evsese just gets absorbed into that original general load calculation
in two twenty dot eighty two b okay and specifically B three. All right,
So again don't have to make that complicated. And that's why so many
people just do the optional method. But if you're preparing for an electroal exam,
ah, then it's not going to be that easy, right because chances
are they're going to throw a question in there and it's going to be the
standard method. It's not going to be the optional because the optional would be
too easy, right, Okay, all right, hopefully you got something out
of that episode. Learned a little bit about that. If you have any
questions, like always again, if you feel I left something out, or
you want me to elaborate on it, or you want to ask a question
on it, all you got to do is note the episode and reply over
on Paul abernathy dot com. Make sure you let me know the episode,
give me a brief summary of what you're talking about, because I don't want
to go back and listen to my episode. I've got over a thousand episodes
out there, so give me a little understanding. Give me the generalization of
what you're talking about and your question, give me the code reference to the
what year, what cycle you're working in, and then ask your questions.
If it is about this and it's a follow up, just be as descriptives
as you can about what you want me to answer, and I'm more than
happy to reply back. If you want to send me a new question again,
do that as well. Go to Paul Abernathy dot com. That's a
free service. All you got to do is put in your name, email,
and the question and you'll either get an answer back in an email or
you could be selected for an upcoming episode of Let's ask Paul all right,
and remember I'll never disclose your name. I'll never disclose your email. It's
all confidential. I just use it for educational purposes. So again, don't
worry about that. If you're somebody that's like, oh, I don't want
Paul to blast me, he won't blast you. Don't worry till next time,
folks, Stay safe, God bless the boot both. Taskballing is nothing. Mask nothing