1 00:00:01,879 --> 00:00:06,360 And welcome into a special edition of the Fight Freaks Unite podcast. It's not 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:11,320 a recap, but it's something going on midweek because it is Jervonte Davis and 3 00:00:11,439 --> 00:00:17,600 Ryan Garcia Week in Las Vegas. Our insider Dan Raphael arrived on Wednesday in 4 00:00:17,679 --> 00:00:22,359 Las Vegas and it did not take him very long at all to score a 5 00:00:22,399 --> 00:00:28,719 big Time interview. The president of Showtime Sports Entertainment is Stephen Espinoza, and 6 00:00:28,839 --> 00:00:32,640 Dan had the opportunity to speak with him about how this Davis Garcia deal came 7 00:00:32,679 --> 00:00:38,320 about. Showtime is obviously the producer of this pay per view at the Forefront, 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,000 with Premiere Boxing Champions for televising this. It will obviously be available on 9 00:00:43,039 --> 00:00:46,920 other outlets liked The Zone that has a deal with Ryan Garcia and Oscar daal 10 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,320 Lehoy and Golden Boy Promotions. It will also be available on PPV dot Com. 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,240 But make no mistakes, Showtime at the Forefront got this deal done. 12 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,560 Put the money up to get this deal done. Stephen will take you through 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:03,079 that, and most interestingly too, he's got comments and updates on the potential 14 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:08,480 World welterweight undisputed title clash between Errol Spence. Don't laugh and Terrence Crawford, 15 00:01:08,519 --> 00:01:15,599 will that fight potentially be happening later this year. Steven Espinoza is actually optimistic 16 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:21,200 and he's on the inside negotiating and Dan's trying to get it out of him. 17 00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:23,079 You'll hear that in this interview. He's not going to be that forthcoming, 18 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:26,640 but he's at least optimistic. You'll hear it in his voice. So, 19 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,799 again, without further delay, thank you for finding us here on the 20 00:01:29,799 --> 00:01:32,799 Big Fight Weekend podcast feed. This is why you follow or subscribe to the 21 00:01:32,799 --> 00:01:38,640 feed because special things like this come up. When Dan was there in Vegas, 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,760 he got the chance to speak with Steven Esponosa, so we wanted to 23 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,159 bring you that without any further delay. So let's hear that conversation that they 24 00:01:46,239 --> 00:01:49,280 had on Wednesday. They tape this on Wednesday, a fight week for Davis 25 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:55,120 and Garcia. So now here we are in the press room the media center 26 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,200 at the MGM Grant. I'm with Steven Esponosa from Showtime Sports, the Big 27 00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:00,920 Boss Man, have yourself a very event for Showtime and for all of boxing 28 00:02:00,959 --> 00:02:04,319 fans. I'm gonna we're gonna talk about that fight and a few other of 29 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,280 your Showtime related things. But just to start off, so far as we 30 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:10,560 talk here, it's a Wednesday. Thursday will be the press conference, Friday 31 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:14,879 the way and Saturday of course the big fight. How how have you seen 32 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,199 this going so far? If you could maybe compared to some of the other 33 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,840 major events that you've been involved with, and of course the folks know what 34 00:02:20,879 --> 00:02:23,479 you've done. Yeoman's work involved with many of the bigger fights with Floyd and 35 00:02:23,759 --> 00:02:27,360 with plenty of other fighters Oscar over the years when you were with the Golden 36 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,080 Boy, etcetera. So stack it up if you could in that round in 37 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:32,360 that respect. Well, first, in terms of the negotiation, I would 38 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:38,719 say this is one of the most difficult, challenging negotiations I've been involved in, 39 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:42,879 probably number two beyond only Mayweather pack out. And so when you go 40 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:46,719 through that, you hope that it's worth it. And clearly, sitting here 41 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,879 Wednesday, fight week, it has been worth it. I think it's it's 42 00:02:50,879 --> 00:02:55,680 a bigger fight than than we realistically expected, you know, it's we hoped 43 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,719 it would get this big. So let me stop you there for a quick 44 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:02,879 second. I have yet to hear anybody articulate when the fight was in its 45 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,360 infancy, when it was being put together. What are the expectations. I 46 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,240 know you're saying it's it's bettering them, but what were they? I mean, 47 00:03:12,719 --> 00:03:14,800 when you make expectations, is it what's the gate going to be, 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:15,719 what's the pay per view going to be? What's the Yeah, I think 49 00:03:15,719 --> 00:03:19,759 it's it's all of those things. And a lot of it is anecdotal because 50 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,039 you know, um, you know, pay per view ninety eight percent comes 51 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:25,560 in, you know, right about the start of the fight. But it's 52 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:31,039 you know, the reaction again anecdotally, the reaction of celebrities in the general 53 00:03:31,159 --> 00:03:36,280 public. You know, we we we hear a lot when we start getting 54 00:03:36,319 --> 00:03:38,000 a request from people we've never heard of him before. When you know, 55 00:03:38,039 --> 00:03:43,879 Patrick Maholmes says I want to come to the fight. You know, that's 56 00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:46,479 does Patrick pay for the ticket or do you give him a ticket? He's 57 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:51,039 more hundreds of millions. Does he have to pay? He to his credit, 58 00:03:51,439 --> 00:03:55,639 he contacted Ryan and asked to pay. He cannot buy tickets now, 59 00:03:55,719 --> 00:03:59,759 you know, they but they'll pay for them, yes, yes, um, 60 00:04:00,319 --> 00:04:02,719 absolutely, and and you know, and that's another indicator of a big 61 00:04:02,759 --> 00:04:08,439 fight. Very few celebrities have contacted, you know, Saint comps only. 62 00:04:08,639 --> 00:04:12,120 They all have said, and that's not always the case. Most of them 63 00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:14,479 have said, can I can I buy some tickets to the fight? So 64 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:16,279 who else the giving some other names besides Mahomes, that's a pretty big sports 65 00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:19,680 Well. Lebron was absolutely going to be here, and then the Lakers had 66 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:25,360 a playoff game scheduled and you know on that day, Um, we've got 67 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:30,639 a lot of NFL guys, um, you know from let me say, 68 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,759 you know Odell who's you know, a big tank guy you know is coming. 69 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,920 Well, we've got a lot of the Ravens coming also because of relationships 70 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,720 with him, Um, you know some of the you know, Hall of 71 00:04:40,759 --> 00:04:46,319 Famer types, Um, you know, uh, Michael Strahan, Uh, 72 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,120 you know, we've got I think Travis Kelsey is actually coming with Patrick Mahomes. 73 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,720 So it's a big it's you know, it's not the usual names, 74 00:04:54,079 --> 00:04:57,040 you know. So I've been trying to articulate this myself, and I have 75 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,279 not quite figured out a way to explain this yet because I don't I get 76 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:01,879 it myself. I know I'm excited for the fight. I know I'm interested 77 00:05:01,879 --> 00:05:04,120 in the fight. I know a lot of people of boxing fans are interested 78 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,000 I'm not quite sure why it's that big of a fight. It's not a 79 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,800 world championship fight, it's at an unusual catchweight. Neither guy has a track 80 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,839 record of being in big fights. And I'm trying to understand. I'm not 81 00:05:16,959 --> 00:05:20,160 mad that it's a big fight, but I'm trying to articulate and understand why 82 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:23,439 can you give me your take? Why is this such a big fight. 83 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,319 Look, that's a little bit of the mystery, or call it luck or 84 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:32,000 whatever it is, but there's it's definitely gotten to the point where you know, 85 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,240 there are others. I'll give you one example, and I've heard this 86 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:40,040 from a couple of people. People said, look, I'm really excited about 87 00:05:40,079 --> 00:05:43,360 this fight, Like, tell me about the fighters. Like those two things 88 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,720 don't go together. Yeah, it's not like I don't know anything about the 89 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:49,000 fighters, but I'm excited about this fight. That is just a product of 90 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,279 sort of reverberation. Like at some point, if the boxing corps is excited 91 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:59,279 enough, then it spreads to the boxing casuals, and if they're excited enough, 92 00:05:59,319 --> 00:06:02,079 it spreads beyond just a general sports fans in general culture. And I 93 00:06:02,079 --> 00:06:06,600 think we're at that point where somehow it has spread. The excitement the two 94 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:12,600 ends has spread far beyond just the boxing hardcore. So if you back up 95 00:06:12,639 --> 00:06:15,639 you mentioned at the beginning about the complicated nature of making the deal. You 96 00:06:15,639 --> 00:06:17,920 said you've been involved in dozens and dozens of major fight deals, that this 97 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,560 was maybe number two behind me with a packet. We don't have to rehash 98 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,519 the chaos of that one. What was it about this one that made that 99 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,120 much put on the list on part with that? Is it because of the 100 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,240 zone element? Was it the personalities involved? Was working with Golden Boy? 101 00:06:30,319 --> 00:06:34,879 What was it? Was all of that, not the Golden Boy there was 102 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,800 it had all of the same elements that may with a Packel like animosity between 103 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:46,680 the promoters, animosity between the fighters, dueling networks or platforms. I don't 104 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:48,920 see Tank and Ryan having that much animosity between them. I actually kind of 105 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:53,160 think they sort of like each other a little bit. I think they've gotten 106 00:06:53,199 --> 00:06:58,680 to the point. Yes, I would say, you know, it's funny, 107 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,560 that's it's a really good point, because I think they like each other 108 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,800 now. I wouldn't like each other, you know, yeah, but they 109 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:09,120 tolerate each other now and have more respect for each other now than they did 110 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:13,160 ten weeks ago, eight twelve weeks ago, certainly more than the night that 111 00:07:13,199 --> 00:07:15,720 they ran into each other in the club, you know, and in that 112 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:20,920 didn't turn out well, Okay, these similarities to it had all those elements, 113 00:07:20,959 --> 00:07:25,600 and it had the contractual you know problems, it had you know, 114 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:30,439 all of the all of that stuff. So it was it's one thing to 115 00:07:30,879 --> 00:07:32,879 work out all these obstacles when you have a clean slate. But when you 116 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:39,399 are trying to work out this these obstacles with people who already don't like each 117 00:07:39,399 --> 00:07:42,759 other, or don't trust each other, or in this case, who have 118 00:07:42,879 --> 00:07:48,000 sued each other repeatedly multiple times, there's you know, you're coming in already 119 00:07:48,079 --> 00:07:51,399 with a lot of baggage. Who was suing who? Well, Golden Boy 120 00:07:51,519 --> 00:07:56,240 originally sued PBC and Hayman, okay you know a while back, you know, 121 00:07:56,279 --> 00:07:59,519 and there have been you know, different legal skirmishes along the way, 122 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,279 but that that's a big one. And I'm not saying anybody held grudges, 123 00:08:01,319 --> 00:08:07,360 but you know, that's water under the bridge. It's context. So all 124 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,000 of that and yes, and the networks, you know that part of it. 125 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,199 Look, you know, we've got a lot invested in tank. I 126 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:18,560 think we're on their thirteenth, fourteenth fight with him, and we didn't want 127 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:20,399 to see the biggest fight go somewhere else, you know, and not sure 128 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,199 the zone. A similar way about Ryan, But at the end of the 129 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:30,279 day, it was very apparent like, of course we wanted all of course 130 00:08:30,279 --> 00:08:33,480 the zone once at all. If that's where we ended up, there was 131 00:08:33,519 --> 00:08:37,960 no fight. So then the next step is, Okay, what's really important, 132 00:08:37,039 --> 00:08:41,279 what's really important to us, what's really important to them. Let's lay 133 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:43,120 the cards on the table. What are you really trying to get out? 134 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,639 Is it that you want the revenue, Is it that you want the branding 135 00:08:46,639 --> 00:08:50,519 and you want to be, you know, known as a distributor? What 136 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:54,919 is it that you went there? And how can we get to that in 137 00:08:54,919 --> 00:08:58,480 a different way? And what was the What was the answer? I think 138 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,799 it was a little bit of both. They want revenue and they want the 139 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:03,799 branding, and they're getting both. I apparently Yeah, yeah, it's the 140 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,879 showtime, yes, and you know, and that's it, and it's it's 141 00:09:07,879 --> 00:09:11,320 split the baby, it's it's sort of it's a little bit it's not the 142 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,159 perfect result, but there's also an element of it that I think, you 143 00:09:13,159 --> 00:09:18,480 know that not a lot of people realize because it's not just the distribution. 144 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:24,679 Then there's a whole separate conversation about how do you market and message this because 145 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:28,399 it's you know, we're not calling it saying it's on Showtime pay per view. 146 00:09:28,759 --> 00:09:31,159 They're not saying it's on to Zone pay per view like a lot of 147 00:09:31,159 --> 00:09:35,799 it. If you pay real close attention, it says live on pay per 148 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:37,799 view. Right. But I actually while you were saying that, and I'll 149 00:09:37,799 --> 00:09:39,919 tell people, we're sitting in the media so that I'm looking at the giant 150 00:09:39,919 --> 00:09:43,919 step and repeat banner with the pictures and the advertisements I do see on there, 151 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:46,639 the zone logo and the Showtime pay per view logo, so it is 152 00:09:46,639 --> 00:09:50,440 branded on both. It is branded on both, but the overall message is 153 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,000 live on pay per view. I will say this though, in my experience 154 00:09:54,039 --> 00:09:56,279 of twenty plus years, most pay per view fights, whatever the broadcast or 155 00:09:56,399 --> 00:10:00,720 is, it will say on that major advertisements and say the network, it 156 00:10:00,759 --> 00:10:03,879 says live on pay per view. Sometimes, like we've gone back and forth, 157 00:10:03,879 --> 00:10:07,600 depending on the research, sometimes we will say live on Showtime pay per 158 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,320 view. But then sometimes that's confusing. But you know, for example, 159 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,480 it comes down to even stuff as simple as it's not the most important thing. 160 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:18,720 It's just one example, search marketing, you know Google, Google. 161 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,279 Search marketing is an auction. So if we are both bidding to say we 162 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:26,200 want the number one result when you search Davis versus Garcia to be Showtime pay 163 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,600 per view, and de Zone is bidding up the same thing, then we're 164 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,799 making it more difficult and more expensive for each other. We're cannibalizing each other, 165 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:39,919 and you multiply that across twenty different things. In which way, if 166 00:10:39,039 --> 00:10:43,480 we don't articulate in a contract, this is what you can say on social 167 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:46,399 media, this is what you can say off So this is how you can 168 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:50,559 market it on to Zone, because we're not expecting them on the Zone platform 169 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:54,240 to say buy it on Showtime pay per view and in vice versa. So 170 00:10:54,279 --> 00:10:56,840 I mean we're getting real inside baseball. I think the diehard fans kind of 171 00:10:56,879 --> 00:11:01,799 love this kind of deal making. Back around, you're saying that when you 172 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:03,840 make a contract in this particular case, because you do have a relationship with 173 00:11:03,879 --> 00:11:07,480 the Zone, in this agreement, that there's literal language of what you're allowed 174 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,279 as a broadcaster to stay on your social platforms, on your error and vice 175 00:11:11,399 --> 00:11:15,399 versa, all the way down to what is the caption when you do a 176 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,559 social media post, like, you know, because there's a buy link, 177 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:22,240 you know, is like are you sending people to the Showtime page or do 178 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:26,799 Zone page or a generic page like all of these things, you know, 179 00:11:26,879 --> 00:11:31,279 And there's part of it is like being fair to the tutor strippers, but 180 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:35,799 part of it is also confusion because and there have been some you know, 181 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:37,200 there's some in some things that they came to us and say, look, 182 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,559 we don't think that's fair. There's some calls that I made and I said, 183 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,519 look, I don't think this is accurate. It's sort of confusing and 184 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,399 makes it looks like this is on the Zone and not do Zone pay per 185 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,720 view and vice versa. So like I'll just interject and say when I get 186 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:52,919 their marketing emails and telling me like it's fight season and they advertise it and 187 00:11:52,919 --> 00:11:56,519 they put Canello and Ryan in front and center and tell me it's part of 188 00:11:56,519 --> 00:11:58,960 the Zone and when reality it's going to cost me extra money. Yeah, 189 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,200 I'm a Those are all the types of things, and it's not perfect. 190 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:09,639 You can't cover everything. But there's the part about the Zone, Showtime marketing 191 00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:20,200 and messaging was almost as long as the fighter promoter part because it's also you 192 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,799 know what, you know, what are the financial arrangements? You know who 193 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:28,559 pays who, who collects who? Like? What are what's the disclosure to 194 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:31,759 each side? All all of that. If I go buy it on the 195 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:33,919 Zone pay per view, they're gonna the revenue is gonna go to them, 196 00:12:33,039 --> 00:12:37,120 might applekay? If they come on Showtime's app? How do you keep each 197 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:41,080 other us? And and you know, keep your mind that there's a different 198 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:46,200 business structure you know they have. You know, they when you pay your 199 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,360 eighty five dollars, you know you're getting a subscription. You're you're they break 200 00:12:50,399 --> 00:12:54,919 it up into two pieces. You know you're paying technically you're paying the same 201 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:56,600 amount, but you're getting twenty five dollars that goes to the Zone and sixty 202 00:12:56,600 --> 00:13:00,320 dollars goes to the pay per view. So you're gonna say, Okay, 203 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,759 well, we don't want them out their marketing that it's a sixty dollars pay 204 00:13:03,759 --> 00:13:05,600 per view because it's not. You can't buy it for sixty I can buy 205 00:13:05,639 --> 00:13:09,240 it for sixty bucks because I just still but I subscribe for the whole year 206 00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:13,639 so when I go on the Zone homepage, it literally says, you know, 207 00:13:13,279 --> 00:13:16,840 yea, you know, paper View Davis sixty dollars. That's something that 208 00:13:16,919 --> 00:13:20,759 we had to become comfortable with because you know, candidly, if you're DOE 209 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,960 subscriber, of course you're going to buy it there because it is cheaper because 210 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:28,120 you've already paid your twenty bucks or whatever you're paying a month. So that's 211 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,759 something we had to get comfortable with. How do you get comfortable with that? 212 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:37,279 No, I mean, honestly, that's it isn't fair, it's not 213 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,960 you know, it is. It's advantage for his zone. That's one of 214 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:43,960 the things that we swallowed in order to make this fight happen, because you 215 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:48,720 you know, you took everything else. I'm just choking, all right, 216 00:13:48,759 --> 00:13:52,960 So I'm not of thatout the business for a quick minute. So well back 217 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,200 a little bit of the business. So apparently there is a remash clause and 218 00:13:56,279 --> 00:13:58,840 that it is Is it true that if if Tank is the winner and Ryan 219 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,200 exercises, you guys get the rematch, and if it's the other way around, 220 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,600 they get the rematch. No, it's um, it's it's it's not 221 00:14:07,639 --> 00:14:11,960 that clear, and it's not quite set. Is it a two way rematch? 222 00:14:11,639 --> 00:14:16,000 Um, I don't think I'm at liberty to discuss discuss that. It's 223 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:18,559 supposed to be confidential. I know everybody else is talking about it, but 224 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,480 I'm not gonna like as the former lawyer, I actually read contracts, so 225 00:14:22,679 --> 00:14:28,240 I'm not I'm not. But you know, in terms of generally, you 226 00:14:28,279 --> 00:14:33,879 know, there are there are parameters on how decisions get made, you know, 227 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:37,759 and a process for decision making going forward, including who the network will 228 00:14:37,799 --> 00:14:39,960 be. So maybe dozonne it, maybe us if we have to go through 229 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,919 the process. All right, Now, as far as the actual fight goes, 230 00:14:43,559 --> 00:14:48,840 just I mean not that you're a trainer or you know you've been you 231 00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:50,120 know, been an executive, but you've watched a lot of fights. Just 232 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,720 give me your impression of the matchup, you know just how I mean, 233 00:14:52,879 --> 00:14:56,399 I can see both ways guys can win. I know who does what well, 234 00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,080 but uh, clearly as an intriguing fight it Um, you can't just 235 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:03,919 say tank as you're rooting for him to go. No, no, no, 236 00:15:03,759 --> 00:15:05,080 no. I look, I like Ryan, you know, I got 237 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,600 to know him. He's a good kid and very good boxer. Like I 238 00:15:09,399 --> 00:15:13,360 generally, you know, like him. Um and as my as my wife 239 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:18,639 says, like, you know, Tank is who's Mexican. Um, you 240 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:22,399 know, born and raised in Mexico. Tanks the only fighter who can make 241 00:15:22,399 --> 00:15:28,080 her root against a Mexican fighter. Um, you know. And she was, 242 00:15:28,399 --> 00:15:31,279 you know, going for I believe Canello in the Mayweather fight. So 243 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:33,639 she holds that, you know, very true. Um. So look, 244 00:15:33,679 --> 00:15:37,799 there's there's a lot of passionate fans on both sides. In this particular case, 245 00:15:39,919 --> 00:15:41,960 I don't think anybody can really tell you how this is going to go 246 00:15:43,279 --> 00:15:48,440 because neither guy has faced anything that approximates the other. The resume. There's 247 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:52,639 nobody on Ryan's resume that presents the challenges the Tank does. In the same 248 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:56,360 for Ryan, you can't say, oh, Mario Brios was a tall fighter, 249 00:15:56,759 --> 00:15:58,879 so we know how this fight is gonna go. No, Mario Bios, 250 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:03,240 as good a fighter as he is, doesn't have the same strength that 251 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:07,000 Ryan has. So how it is Tank going to deal with the speed and 252 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,600 the power because it's not. You can't oversimplify this into speed versus power. 253 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:19,440 It's not because that undersells Ryan's power and it undersells tanks boxing ability. One 254 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:23,559 thing I've been seeing headlines about and it's I'll be honest, it's just irritating 255 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,600 this shit out of him. I think I know what exactly you're saying when 256 00:16:26,639 --> 00:16:30,919 I see and I love Oscar. Okays, my Oscar is my man. 257 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:37,320 I've known Oscar for twenty five years. Almost. When I see anybody say 258 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:40,679 this is the fight to save boxing, I want to fucking strangle somebody your 259 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:48,240 thoughts. I couldn't I have the conversation within earlier today. Um, and 260 00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:52,320 I get it. It's a it's an interesting catchphrase, and you know, 261 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,679 but it doesn't serve the sport well and it's not accurate, like we're not 262 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:03,879 nobody's a The sport doesn't need saving. It can be improved and there it 263 00:17:03,079 --> 00:17:07,839 always can, but be even if he did this, one fight isn't going 264 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,759 to save it, you know. And to say, look, okay, 265 00:17:10,799 --> 00:17:14,400 and if this fight doesn't save it, then what And we're all we're on 266 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,839 Monday. Let's just say this fight isn't everything everyone expects it to be. 267 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,759 So we're all going to wake up on Monday and say it's not saved. 268 00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:25,200 So let's all go find another hobby which has black Has there been more black 269 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,359 eyes? And boxing or more fights that have been meant to save boxing well 270 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,880 and and and to say, you know, the boxing is dying, I 271 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:37,000 mean he literally go back to the nineteen twenties and people have been literally writing 272 00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:41,519 that the boxing is dying. And I think I think it is undervalued. 273 00:17:41,759 --> 00:17:45,119 Like you don't want to get me on my soapbox here, um, but 274 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,279 I think it's under undervalued significantly. Um. I think there's a lot of 275 00:17:48,319 --> 00:17:52,000 interesting reasons by that. And you know, it's a it's a it's a 276 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,640 different podcast. We can go into it. So on another topic related to 277 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:57,839 this fight, then, I've heard some people suggest our good friend Leonard ler 278 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:00,920 Reefer one who's is he working with Tank for this fight? But I've seen 279 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,960 it from other people that Canello is still the biggest star it seems, at 280 00:18:07,039 --> 00:18:08,839 least in North America anyway. But you know, he's getting on there, 281 00:18:08,839 --> 00:18:11,960 he's got on He's got like what sixty fights or so, and he's still 282 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,079 a great fighter about you know, we don't know how much longer he's gonna 283 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:18,599 be around. This is the next generation. And the point that they've been 284 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,160 making is that the winner of this fight, especially if it's a great fight, 285 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,720 is the quote unquote face of boxing. That's another one of the cliches 286 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:27,039 I here surrounding this particular matchup. What are your thoughts about that notion? 287 00:18:27,319 --> 00:18:30,680 Yeah, I'm not crazy about it either. I think the way you articulated 288 00:18:30,799 --> 00:18:34,200 is better than I think most people have, which is, you know, 289 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,000 no one's gonna wake up and say, look, the winner of this fight 290 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:41,880 is automatically the biggest draw, you know, bigger than Canelo after this fight. 291 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:45,920 Now, having said that, like this, this gate will stack up 292 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,920 against any gate that Canelo has done, you know, short of the Mayweather 293 00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:52,079 fight where Cannelo is the B side. But but you'd be that as is 294 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,160 may I don't think anybody's saying that. I think what is if you want 295 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:02,359 to have more accurate cliche? Yeah, who who is going to be the 296 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,720 rainmaker? The rainmaker? Maybe the head of the next generation. Like there's 297 00:19:07,759 --> 00:19:10,759 there's a category of guys, you know, is it Boots, is it 298 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,680 Ryan? Is a Tank? Is it you know other people? Yes, 299 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,160 you know Shakur in the future, those types of guys. Yeah, so 300 00:19:18,519 --> 00:19:21,200 I think, you know, will this be the you know, this will 301 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,839 go a long way to determining that. And I think part of inherent in 302 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:29,400 that is the realization that if you look in bocking history for the true superstars, 303 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:33,960 there's always usually been at least one and sometimes two fights that catapulted them. 304 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:38,480 You know, Floyd was obviously the Dela Royle fight who put him over 305 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:42,839 the top. So I think, whoever, whoever, both of these guys 306 00:19:42,839 --> 00:19:47,200 are going to get a huge boost from this. But whoever wins it definitely 307 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:48,920 is catapulted to a whole different level. All right, So whoever wins, 308 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,079 if there if there is no rematch, obviously we know there's the possibility that 309 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,319 whatever happens or might be a rematch, even though you don't want to tell 310 00:19:55,319 --> 00:19:59,519 me all the dirty details. Barring a rematch, what is the Let's take 311 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,079 Tank for example, he's the guy you work with, and you can chime 312 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,160 in on Ryan also, since you certainly know the landscape, what is the 313 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,400 next big fight? Is it a shakuor down the road? Is it a 314 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,039 Haney if he wins, is it somebody in the PBC universe? What do 315 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,400 you view as like the next significant fight? I mean, Tank may stay 316 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:19,400 on pay per view, Ryan may stay on pay per view, but what's 317 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:25,680 the next one where the world will descend. That's a That's an interesting one 318 00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:30,960 because I think it's been clear from Ryan's perspective that you know, he's it'll 319 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,240 be one forty and above, you know, going forward, and that opens 320 00:20:33,319 --> 00:20:40,440 up a whole lot of doors for tank Um. Tank at one forty above 321 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:42,160 is still a tweener. You know, he's a little bit like Broner. 322 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:48,440 You know, Brono is fantastic at one thirty five, struggled more at one 323 00:20:48,599 --> 00:20:52,599 forty and at one forty seven just wasn't able to compete at the highest level. 324 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:56,960 So you know, for Tank, you're right, the question is, 325 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:00,640 Okay, who's who's at one thirty five? Who who can do that? 326 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,960 And maybe it is Shakur. I think that's a megafight. But the challenge 327 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:10,559 here, or the benefit here, is you're bringing in two fighters with completely 328 00:21:10,559 --> 00:21:17,920 different fan bases. And I'm not saying that Tank in Shakur is not as 329 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,279 big because it's two black fighters. It's not that simple. But they're East 330 00:21:21,279 --> 00:21:25,400 Coast similar, you know, Baltimore New Work. It's it's they're more in 331 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,880 common, let's say, than what Ryan and Tank has. Yeah, and 332 00:21:29,559 --> 00:21:33,400 in the thing that I think has made this a case of two plus two 333 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:37,480 equally far more than four. Is that both Tank and Wine have casual fans. 334 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,920 I'm not sure that Shakur has gotten to that point. You know, 335 00:21:41,039 --> 00:21:45,480 nothing against him as a boxer. He's a fantastic boxer. I just think 336 00:21:45,519 --> 00:21:48,720 in terms of his popularity, I'm stating facts. You know, he isn't 337 00:21:48,759 --> 00:21:52,319 as broadly popular as Tank or Ryan the Fen for a second, and his 338 00:21:52,519 --> 00:21:56,319 defense, since he's not here to say so. His last fight, which 339 00:21:56,319 --> 00:21:57,240 was a new work that was a couple of weeks ago, not a title 340 00:21:57,279 --> 00:22:02,359 fight against an unknown Japanese on the PWI, they did about a million dollar 341 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:03,799 gay in New York. They sold the most tickets that ever been sold for 342 00:22:03,799 --> 00:22:07,440 a boxing match in that building. So he has the ability to grow that 343 00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,440 could perhaps transfer to New York City, not you know, a very close 344 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,599 tend in a train ride from New York. So he has a chance. 345 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,200 Yeah, he's still young, um and and I'm just saying that he won't 346 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:22,920 develop into that. But you know, at this point, you know, 347 00:22:22,039 --> 00:22:26,200 is that is that a mega fight? You don't know. But look there's 348 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,759 not there's not an obvious one. But if you look at look when when 349 00:22:30,839 --> 00:22:34,279 de la Hoya or when Mayweather beat De la Hoya. Was there? I 350 00:22:34,319 --> 00:22:37,039 mean, I guess, you know, I'm not even sure that pak Yowe 351 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:41,559 was Pacyowe. You know, did you see him as a foil for him 352 00:22:41,559 --> 00:22:44,400 at that point? You know? Not? He never thought this is going 353 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,119 to be the biggest fight in history, not right after. So I think 354 00:22:47,519 --> 00:22:51,200 the future that will have to have to develop opponents, you know, for 355 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,759 Tank going forward at one thirty five and maybe one forty on occasion. The 356 00:22:55,839 --> 00:22:59,839 conversation continues in a moment, but first a word for our friends at tickets 357 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,599 Smarter. Coming up this weekend. 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You need to think 378 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,160 smarter, Ticket Smarter and take five percent off of any order three hundred dollars 379 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:37,359 or more with the promo code Fight twenty three to all the secret snackers, 380 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:45,559 the midnight unchers, the nibblers, the hoarders, the sharers, the not 381 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:56,440 so sharers in the car connoisseurs and the omnivos sprudgers. Everyone's crackers for it, 382 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:03,000 carberry cracker, the smooth jedder from West Cork cracking cheese for snacking. 383 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:10,240 All right, now we've spent this entire conversation about Tank Davis and Ryan Garcia, 384 00:25:10,279 --> 00:25:11,880 as we should. It's the big fight. It's the week of the 385 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,759 fight. But we're here in Las Vegas. I have to ask you. 386 00:25:14,759 --> 00:25:15,759 You know, you're smiling, and you know what I'm gonna ask you about. 387 00:25:17,039 --> 00:25:19,880 And by the way, when this post sometime Thursday night, early Friday, 388 00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:22,599 we already might have an answer. Yeah, you're na whatever. I 389 00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:26,599 gotta ask you, what in the world is going on with Errol Spence and 390 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:32,119 Terence Scrawford. The rumors abound tell me everything. You know, people like 391 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,559 people are gonna hear this, and they're gonna like, I'm gonna get backlash. 392 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:37,559 I'm gonna I'm gonna not gonna change what I say because they think I 393 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:42,799 like I take joy in like throwing cold water on things. They think I'm 394 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,039 happy to know I'm not. It irritates me as much as it does you 395 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:53,599 when people start just running with wild shit that isn't true. But first of 396 00:25:53,599 --> 00:25:56,839 all, you didn't ask me about this. June seventeenth was never a date 397 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:00,920 for Spence Crawford. It never has been, ever will be. That's not 398 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,759 the date. It never was the date. That's people trying to connect dots 399 00:26:03,799 --> 00:26:08,480 that shouldn't be connected. You know, TGB and PBC had June seventeenth preserved 400 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,599 in Texas and in Vegas. People saw that and said, oh, it 401 00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:18,160 must be Spence Crawford. Well, Crawford probably isn't going to Texas, so 402 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:22,039 that was silly anyway, But the date doesn't make sense. This one is 403 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:26,640 a similar situation. You know this rumor about oh, you know there's a 404 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,440 press conference scheduled for Saturday. I'm telling you definitively, like you and I 405 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,359 have texted many times or last week, there's as of you know, what 406 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:38,759 time is it five twenty five on Wednesday Pacific time? Yes, Pacific time. 407 00:26:40,079 --> 00:26:44,759 There is zero schedule. There is no Spence Crawford press conference schedule this 408 00:26:44,799 --> 00:26:48,119 weekend? Does that mean you know that when you post this and I'm going 409 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,559 to be proven an idiot. Maybe. I mean, we could stay up 410 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,319 until four am tonight, get everything resolved signed and everyone's coming on the plane. 411 00:26:56,839 --> 00:27:03,039 But keep in mind else coming to the fight anyway. So were the 412 00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:07,000 Charlo, so as Wilder sous Ruis, so as Ben a Videz. That's 413 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,039 how you know. One of the ways you know it's a really big fight 414 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,759 is when you get that turnout. But when you see Errol Spence walking through, 415 00:27:11,839 --> 00:27:15,880 I mean not you personally, but when people see Errol Spence walking through 416 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,039 the Mjam lobby, I feel like it's going to trigger another avalanche. There's 417 00:27:19,079 --> 00:27:22,519 definitely a press conference because Errol Spence is in Vegas press conference aside, are 418 00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:26,680 you at least I mean characterized? Are you making progress? Let's use the 419 00:27:26,759 --> 00:27:30,400 vernacular. Is it close? Is it is? One side agree on this 420 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,519 and there's one thing holding it up, Like can you characterize where we're at 421 00:27:33,559 --> 00:27:38,599 with this and what's going on? So there's definitely progress. There's been active 422 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:42,119 discussions for about the last couple of months. We're definitely closer now than we 423 00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:45,799 were last fall, which is a great thing because I thought we were going 424 00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:48,200 to reach an agreement last fall and we didn't. Fell apart but it also 425 00:27:48,279 --> 00:27:52,759 means like we're not done until we're done, you know, and we're not 426 00:27:52,799 --> 00:27:56,599 done. So given the history of this negotiation, no one should get too 427 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,720 excited that we're on the one yard line because we're on the two yard line 428 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,839 before and it fell upon we. You still got to get two yards But 429 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,160 you're right, and so them possitive thing. We're on the one yard line, 430 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,119 on whatever five yard line, whatever analogy you want. Things are moving, 431 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,279 there's progress being made. I'm optimistic that it will in fact get made. 432 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,480 There's news right there. Nobody has said that. I am optimistic, 433 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:19,960 and if it does, I'm optimistic it will be this year. Will not 434 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,599 be June seventeen, will be June twenty fourth. It will not be June 435 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:29,880 twenty fourth. We have what we have something that date already this summer. 436 00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,039 I believe this summer. I think this summer, this summer, early fall. 437 00:28:34,599 --> 00:28:40,039 And you know, I also think that if we don't get it done 438 00:28:40,079 --> 00:28:47,000 relatively quickly, then it probably doesn't happen, because that means we will be 439 00:28:47,279 --> 00:28:52,079 at it for the better part. You know, of a year actively like 440 00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:56,920 hard or negotiating for a year, what could possibly take a year to negotiating. 441 00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:02,240 I mean, what can asily take that long. I understand there's percentages, 442 00:29:02,279 --> 00:29:04,880 and there's there's who all the all the ancillary stuff, who's going in 443 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,000 the ring first, who's getting all that stuff? Who controls the undercard, 444 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,960 who controls the accounting. There's a ton of different things. But those don't 445 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:18,039 take a year. No, it's much more philosophical, and um, the 446 00:29:18,079 --> 00:29:22,799 best way I could do it without sort of uncovering everything, there's there has 447 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:30,000 been a fundamental disagreement about a the value, you know, what each side 448 00:29:30,039 --> 00:29:33,680 believes they should be getting, and what the fight is worth. Are you 449 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,160 talking about as a guarantee. Are you talking about as a split of revenue? 450 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,759 Not not not as split so much. Although that did take some time, 451 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:42,400 you know, and it took some time lest fall, and it took 452 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:48,400 some more time again this spring, but just in terms of, you know, 453 00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:55,319 what what the overall deal was worth and how the fight operates. I 454 00:29:55,359 --> 00:29:57,519 know there's been a lot of talk about a guarantee. Um, it's not 455 00:29:57,559 --> 00:30:00,960 that unusual to not have a gar artee. And in fact, a lot 456 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,079 of times it's the fighters and the promoters that come to us and say we 457 00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:10,680 don't want to guarantee because as you know, when if we're paying a guarantee, 458 00:30:11,359 --> 00:30:14,440 then my slice of the pie is going to be bigger, you know. 459 00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:17,599 And it depends what do you want. You want to bet on yourself, 460 00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:19,440 you want to you want some security. You know, if you want 461 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:23,599 to bet on yourself, you don't take the guarantee and say I want the 462 00:30:23,599 --> 00:30:27,599 revenues. And you know that's the way you want to go. Now, 463 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,200 Having you said that, like, you know, there are things, there's 464 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,960 some baggage. Everybody brings baggage into a negotiation. You know. Crawford brought 465 00:30:37,039 --> 00:30:41,920 some baggage in from some things he didn't like apparently, from how things worked 466 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,839 under the top rank, you know. And there's some things that he's seen 467 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:49,039 that apparently he doesn't like about how things work under this structure, you know, 468 00:30:49,119 --> 00:30:55,920 and ironing those out has been difficult, you know. So look, 469 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,720 I'm not trying to be you know, vague, but it's not as simple 470 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,119 as hey, one guy wants fifty one forty nine, the other guy wants 471 00:31:03,119 --> 00:31:04,920 fifty two forty eight. I think at this stage of the game, though, 472 00:31:06,599 --> 00:31:08,640 and again not that aneth to defend him. Can we exonerate Bob Aram 473 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,039 as being the person that was not holding this up since he's not been involved 474 00:31:12,039 --> 00:31:15,079 with Terrence Crawford for more than a year and the fight still hasn't been made. 475 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,680 Um, No, both things can be true, you know. Aram 476 00:31:22,799 --> 00:31:26,880 can can be have held it up in the past because he refused to engage 477 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:32,359 in conversations, you know. But it can also be true that had the 478 00:31:32,359 --> 00:31:34,799 conversations gotten to the point where Crawford was had to sign off, that he 479 00:31:34,799 --> 00:31:38,720 wouldn't have because of whatever concerns he had. So, you know, but 480 00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:44,599 clearly there's no promoter issue, there's no network issue. This is fundamentally how 481 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,440 is this deal going to work? And the parties are not yet in alignment. 482 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,559 Now we're making progress. It has been glacially slow, like this has 483 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,680 now risen to in my pound for pound most difficult negotiations. This is is 484 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,640 this gonna go ahead of Mayweather packets? Think this is number three, number 485 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,720 four? You know, depending now, if you want to talk about the 486 00:32:05,759 --> 00:32:07,920 whole process, talk to me after the event and we'll see. I mean, 487 00:32:08,519 --> 00:32:13,400 isn't it time for this fight that just happened already? I mean there's 488 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:17,000 not a single boxing match in the world that means that damn for Errol Spence 489 00:32:17,079 --> 00:32:21,359 right now, and the same goes for Terrence Crawford. They are and we've 490 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,279 texted about this. They are the last men standing. I went through the 491 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:25,920 linney, you know, God bless Keith Thurman. He's still doing this thing, 492 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:30,119 hasn't fought, been inactive. Danny Garcia is pretty much playing out the 493 00:32:30,119 --> 00:32:34,640 string. He's at one fifty four. Seawan Porter is retired, kell Brook 494 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,960 has retired, Amir Khan has retired, Lamont Peterson has retired. There there 495 00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:43,599 natural rivals, they've all you know, Spence fought a lot of those guys, 496 00:32:43,799 --> 00:32:45,640 and Crawford didn't have a chance to fight a lot of those guys for 497 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,480 different reasons. But all of those that great welterweight ear that we were in 498 00:32:49,839 --> 00:32:54,200 Danny and Porter and Thurman and all those guys, they're not at the forefront 499 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,680 at this moment. These two guys are still at the top of the pound 500 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:00,119 for poundless and they're the only ones that having fought. It reminds me in 501 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,720 a way of me whether pack and when they says that they're the last man 502 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:07,880 standing of their generation, uh Lewis Tyson, where the last guys left that 503 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,640 hadn't fought as the big names and their day, you know, and you 504 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,720 can go on and on, so do we This doesn't have to happen at 505 00:33:14,759 --> 00:33:19,759 some point before they're forty years old. Well, look, there's there's one 506 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,200 thing. And again, I don't want to I don't want to point fingers. 507 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,200 Like I know Errol and have done more business with Errol than than I 508 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,240 have with Crawford. Um, but I'm not gonna point fingers one way or 509 00:33:30,279 --> 00:33:32,720 the other. Um, but I way, I'm not pointing fingers either. 510 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:36,759 I'm just a frustrated you know, journalists and fan that wants to see the 511 00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:43,440 fighter. Yeah, but the same token. Like it's okay, I was 512 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,640 about to point a finger, so let me. I'm not gonna point fingers. 513 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:52,640 But um, yes, and look I give them credit at this point. 514 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:57,480 You know, I give Errol in particular credit. He has stayed at 515 00:33:57,559 --> 00:34:01,160 the negotiating table for a year. You know. The only time he scheduled 516 00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:06,839 the fight was after Terrence had already scheduled his fight against Abnecia. You know. 517 00:34:06,920 --> 00:34:09,639 But for that, you know, God bless him, because you know, 518 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:14,440 in the last four or five months, I would have scheduled the fight 519 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:15,719 fight all right, just if you look at the calendar, we've literally, 520 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,840 in the last few days past the one year mark of when Arrow's last fight 521 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:22,679 was U you know, and he's been out a long time now, Yeah, 522 00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:24,440 three hundred and sixty seven days according to your text, I believe. 523 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:30,840 So. Um, look, you can't say that guys that are not trying 524 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,280 to make this fight now. You know, at the end of the day, 525 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:39,000 you know, there's still there's still some flies in the ointment, um, 526 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:42,800 you know, and to get those resolved, it would it would take 527 00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,800 some unprecedented things and will probably candidly, we behalf the network, will probably 528 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:52,239 agree to some things which I might regret in the future, you know, 529 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:53,840 just like there are some things that I had to swallow that I still don't 530 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:59,360 like about Davis Garcia having said that. You know what, all big boys, 531 00:34:59,519 --> 00:35:01,719 I I have had the opportunity not to do this deal, and we 532 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,800 chose to do this deal. So I'm not going to whine about it. 533 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,039 I'm not going to whine about whatever we have to do to get Spence Crawford 534 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,719 done because it needs to get done and I think it will all right. 535 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:14,159 So I'm gonna wrap up, and I appreciate your time a lot we spent 536 00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:16,719 a lot of time on Tank and Garcia, and then obviously on this potential 537 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:20,559 of Spence and Crawford. I know you think that you think it will get 538 00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:25,239 done. Can you give me like your rationale why it will get done briefly 539 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,039 and why it won't get done, and give me like your your your percentage 540 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:36,719 of it gets done. I think it will get done because there was an 541 00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:39,519 opportunity in a window where it looked like you had gone away completely, and 542 00:35:39,559 --> 00:35:43,960 it would have been very easy for both guys to go their separate ways, 543 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,239 and they didn't, and they came back to the table, and it hasn't 544 00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:51,920 been easy, and no one has left the table yet, So I think, 545 00:35:52,159 --> 00:35:57,039 you know, having you know, Errol Terence coming off of Abanisi and 546 00:35:57,079 --> 00:36:01,119 Errol coming off the cancelation of his fight, they've now consistently been at the 547 00:36:01,119 --> 00:36:05,639 table, which sells me. You know, they probably didn't like the feeling 548 00:36:05,679 --> 00:36:08,559 that they had when it fell apart, so they're here at the table. 549 00:36:09,079 --> 00:36:12,119 I mean, I know they want to fight each other, and I've talked 550 00:36:12,119 --> 00:36:14,199 to both guys and Intro and I believe both of them when they say they 551 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,360 want to fight the other man. Yeah, and and now we've gotten to 552 00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:21,199 the point. And the other thing I think why I'm optimistic is I've seen 553 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,920 guys, both guys make concessions that I didn't think they would ever make. 554 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,719 That they can you give us an example of a concession. I think I 555 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,440 think there were. There's there was. I'm not going to say who did 556 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,760 it. There was a concession on the split within the last few weeks that 557 00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:43,559 I didn't think would ever happened, you know, and that wasn't by any 558 00:36:43,599 --> 00:36:46,159 means the last issue. But when I saw that, I'm saying, look, 559 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,719 these guys are I'm not the only one who's like agreeing to stuff that 560 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,960 makes them uncomfortable in order to get this done. Everybody's uncomfortable. So since 561 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:58,400 I know you a long time, and I know you of my boxing group 562 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,000 of people I talked too often as one of the more cynical of those people, 563 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,880 I'm proud of that. Yeah, yeah, I'm proud of I'm I'm 564 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,239 upright up there with you. It actually sounds to me like you have optimism. 565 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,920 Yes, so give me the person will end it here. I give 566 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,239 me your percentage that it will get done. And I'm not even a buscher 567 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:16,679 chops about this weekend necessarily, but just in terms for like in the next 568 00:37:16,679 --> 00:37:24,400 fight for these guys this year, I think it is the percentage that Spence 569 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:29,800 Quwford gets done, you know, to happen in twenty twenty three, I 570 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:35,679 believe is seventy five. It's a C plus. I guess that's better than 571 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:37,159 an F, better than a D. I'll take it. Stephen, Thank 572 00:37:37,159 --> 00:37:39,639 you so much for being on with us today. I appreciate it. Let's 573 00:37:39,679 --> 00:37:44,639 have a great fight week Yeah, absolutely good to see it. And there 574 00:37:44,639 --> 00:37:47,159 you go one more time. Great work by Dan Raphaels is why he's our 575 00:37:47,199 --> 00:37:51,920 insider for Bigfight Weekend dot com and his fight for each Unite substack. He's 576 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,360 out there Oel on location for Davis Garcia the Saturday night pay per view. 577 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:59,639 There's not a title mistake, but still this is one of the biggest fights 578 00:38:00,039 --> 00:38:02,920 of twenty twenty three because of who these guys are, their unbeaten records, 579 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,519 their popularity. Let's see what happens. And you got some great insight from 580 00:38:07,519 --> 00:38:10,280 Steven Espinoza on how this fight was made, and you just heard him say 581 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:15,079 he's got some optimism that spine Crawford. It's not going to be announced this 582 00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:21,639 weekend. He was clear they have not agreed yet much less have they agreed 583 00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:27,000 to win it would take place. However, he has optimism that it will 584 00:38:27,039 --> 00:38:29,719 take place. So you got all of that by being here on this podcast 585 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:34,000 feed. Reminder follow or subscribe. The Big Fight Weekend podcast feed is available 586 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,280 on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you get podcasts. Dan 587 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,639 and I will have a full preview and he may have another great conversation or 588 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:45,920 more for the preview that will be out overnight Thursday into Friday here on this 589 00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,639 very podcast feed. So this is why you gotta follow or subscribe. We'll 590 00:38:49,679 --> 00:38:53,039 have the full preview with Dan in Vegas for Davis and Garcia and the pay 591 00:38:53,039 --> 00:38:55,079 per view, the undercard, all of it that's going to go on at 592 00:38:55,119 --> 00:38:59,679 the Team Mobile Arena on Saturday night. Dan is there. We're looking forward 593 00:38:59,679 --> 00:39:02,360 to all of that, and once more, we thank Steven Espanosa of Showtime 594 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,920 for making himself available for that amount of time. We're Dan in the media 595 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:08,760 center for that conversation. For now, We're good until the Big Fight we 596 00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:13,960 can preview comes out here in the next thirty six hours or so. Standby 597 00:39:14,079 --> 00:39:16,480 for that for now, I'm TJ reeves On behalf of Dan right here. 598 00:39:16,559 --> 00:39:22,360 Great job is Dan. We love that here as part of the Fight Preaching Night podcast