WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:04.759 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with no ads? Easy? 2 00:00:05.320 --> 00:00:09.400 Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You get access to a 3 00:00:09.480 --> 00:00:14.199 private RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 4 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:18.399 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug. Sign 5 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:24.079 up now at Patreon dot dot net rocks dot com. Hey Carlin Richard here. 6 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:28.879 As you may have heard, NDC is back offering their incredible in person 7 00:00:28.960 --> 00:00:33.320 conferences around the world, and we'd like to tell you about them. NDC 8 00:00:33.479 --> 00:00:39.439 Copenhagen is happening August twenty seventh through the thirty first. Go to NDC Copenhagen 9 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:45.280 dot com for more information. NDC Porto is happening October sixteenth through the twentieth. 10 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:49.600 The early bird discount for DC Porto ends July twenty first. Go to 11 00:00:49.719 --> 00:00:54.960 Dcporto dot com to register and check out the full lineup of conferences at NDC 12 00:00:54.960 --> 00:00:59.840 Conferences dot com. Hey there, this is Jeff Fritz, the Purple Blazer 13 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.840 from Microsoft, letting you in on a little secret about my friend Carl Franklin. 14 00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:07.920 You know, the guy who started dot net Rocks, the first podcast 15 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:12.879 about dot net in two thousand and two. The guy who's been teaching Blazer 16 00:01:12.959 --> 00:01:19.200 on YouTube since twenty twenty, Yeah that Carl Franklin. Well, Carl's joined 17 00:01:19.280 --> 00:01:23.159 up with the folks from Code in a Castle to teach a week long hands 18 00:01:23.200 --> 00:01:29.040 on Blazer class at Are you ready to get this? At a castle slash 19 00:01:29.239 --> 00:01:34.280 villa in Tuscany. It's sort of a luxury vacation with Blazer learning built in. 20 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:42.359 Carl's calling it the Blazer master Class. You'll learn Blazer from the ground 21 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:47.079 up, finishing the week with the ability to build and deploy Blazer applications. 22 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:52.040 Since the training happens for only four hours in the morning over six days, 23 00:01:52.439 --> 00:01:57.079 you can bring your significant other, your partner with you and you should right 24 00:01:57.799 --> 00:02:01.400 This part of Italy is absolutely beautiful. There's so much to see and do, 25 00:02:01.760 --> 00:02:07.280 and in Larion Marco from Code into Castle are organizing daily activities both at 26 00:02:07.319 --> 00:02:12.520 the castle and in the area. The castle is in the Marema, a 27 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:17.319 less touristed region of Tuscany, offering both classic Tuscan hill country as well as 28 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:23.319 easy access to the Etruscan Riviera, with sublime local food, wine and olive 29 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:29.080 oil around every corner. Breakfast is included. Every day there will be two 30 00:02:29.080 --> 00:02:32.879 communal dinners at the castle book ending the experience, and most other meals and 31 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:38.240 all activities are included. And did I mention you'll learn Blazer in person from 32 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:44.240 Carl Franklin. Listen, space is limited and for very good reason. This 33 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:50.199 is quality training in a beautiful setting. Go to code in Acastle dot com 34 00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:57.759 slash Blazer twenty twenty three that's BLA z O R two zero two three To 35 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:02.439 take advantage of this amazing opportunity to join Carl in Tuscany for an unforgettable week 36 00:03:02.719 --> 00:03:15.599 of La dolce vita while advancing your programming skills in this important new technology. 37 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:24.759 Welcome back to dot net Rocks. This is Carl Franklin and this is Richard 38 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:30.479 Campbell, and um, what can I say? Man? We're it's beginning 39 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:37.080 to rain here and the ash from Ontario and is moving out now that's good 40 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:39.599 weather changes. You know. The first set of forest fires that really hit 41 00:03:39.680 --> 00:03:44.120 hard. We had some of the northeast of BC and then Nova Scotia caught 42 00:03:44.159 --> 00:03:46.800 fire, which is weird. Nova Scotia normally does not burn right, I 43 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:50.599 know, and they couldn't had a heck of a time trying to contain it, 44 00:03:50.639 --> 00:03:53.400 and it wasn't until mother nature came along and said how about some rain 45 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:57.680 that actually got things under control. But they lost some homes, lots of 46 00:03:57.719 --> 00:04:00.080 people evacuated, like it's been, it's been areas. I mean. The 47 00:04:00.159 --> 00:04:04.120 saving grace for a place like Quebec is most of the fires are in the 48 00:04:04.159 --> 00:04:10.240 north, which is pretty deserted. Not entirely. There are some First Nation 49 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:14.280 villages that were not They weren't able to save. They evaluated the people, 50 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:19.120 but you're talking about places that people have lived at literally for thousands of years. 51 00:04:19.399 --> 00:04:24.040 Thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, and so that is pretty painful. 52 00:04:24.040 --> 00:04:27.480 Well, if you're confused, we're actually recording this on June ninth, 53 00:04:27.480 --> 00:04:30.040 and it's just a couple of days after the fires in the Quebec started. 54 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:35.519 But just good news that it's it's all over now. Yeah, well mostly 55 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:39.480 for me anyway. It's disturbing to me that forest fire season has started this 56 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:43.279 early. Yeah, you know it's gonna be I think it's gonna be a 57 00:04:43.279 --> 00:04:46.120 tough summer. Yeah. Well, let's get started with a little thing. 58 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:57.879 We call it been or no framework roll the crazy music. Awesome, All 59 00:04:57.920 --> 00:05:00.199 right, man, what do you got all right. Far from me to 60 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:08.079 report any news story that prevents people from doing sane things like wearing seat belts 61 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:14.920 or you know, getting vaccinated or using a password manager. Pastor managers are 62 00:05:14.959 --> 00:05:17.319 good. Pastor managers are good. However, every once in a while, 63 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:23.720 one of them gets hacked. And this happened on June fifth. It was 64 00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:29.639 reported key pass k ee pass version two point five four fixes a bug that 65 00:05:29.720 --> 00:05:35.720 leaked clear text master password. Oh that's not good. Here's the question, 66 00:05:35.759 --> 00:05:41.360 like why did they even have it? Like there's no reason? Yes, 67 00:05:42.639 --> 00:05:46.800 what yeah, like this this the bigger thing here is that it suddenly breaks 68 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:49.959 into this whole question of what were you people doing under the hood. Well, 69 00:05:50.120 --> 00:05:53.480 well, here's the thing. It wasn't. It wasn't like it was 70 00:05:53.560 --> 00:05:59.800 just boom done. It was it was a vulnerability where you had to do 71 00:05:59.839 --> 00:06:02.360 a memory dump of the application. So you have to crash the application, 72 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:08.480 right, look through the memory dump, and then even though it's a secure 73 00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.199 text box, right, Yeah, when the user types in the password, 74 00:06:12.199 --> 00:06:17.839 they are leftover strings, so basically it gets everything but the beginning string. 75 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:21.439 You know that little dot that pops up when you're typing your password, right, 76 00:06:23.480 --> 00:06:27.199 So those are leftover strings, and the dumper allows users to recover almost 77 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:30.920 all of the mastered password characters apart from the first one or two. Yeah, 78 00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:33.680 so it's not so bad, all right, So you understand that, 79 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:38.279 you're like, oh, so I need direct access to your machine to have 80 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:42.399 put code in it to be able to break that, you know. Okay, 81 00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:45.680 Yeah, it's not so much of a of a of a you know, 82 00:06:45.920 --> 00:06:49.360 we used it as clickbait on security this week. Okay. Well, 83 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:54.279 and the other thing is like key passes, the you know Linux kind of 84 00:06:54.800 --> 00:06:58.920 yeah, you know, from the open open source community, that's the one 85 00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:01.680 that is supposed to be the greatest in a lot of respects, but tricky 86 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:06.199 to use. So uh and it still is very safe, so don't yeah, 87 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:09.680 yeah, let's say, and you know, the only thing worse than 88 00:07:10.600 --> 00:07:15.040 using a password manager is not using not using like correct, Yes, I 89 00:07:15.519 --> 00:07:20.160 moved from one from from last pass to Bitwarden. Same here, and I'm 90 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:24.480 happy. We haven't looked back since happy with bit Warden does a good job, 91 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.160 right, all right, Well that's what I got. Who's talking to 92 00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.519 us today, Richard grad A comments Office Show twelve fifty five. So I've 93 00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:33.879 gone back in the archives about seven years ago. Jeez. And that was 94 00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:38.920 a show that we did with Joe Goodano when we were talking about as your 95 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:42.839 App Insights, and that's a twenty sixteen and I realized reading this, it's 96 00:07:42.879 --> 00:07:45.920 like, hey, you know, those are pretty early days. They were. 97 00:07:46.680 --> 00:07:48.360 And one of the conversations that we had at the time was the fact 98 00:07:48.439 --> 00:07:57.240 that there were updates that were coming periodically, that we're fairly disruptive to developers, 99 00:07:57.319 --> 00:08:00.519 like the work that you were doing and implementations you done and be shifted 100 00:08:00.519 --> 00:08:03.480 around. And so skinnoct actually had this comment related to another comment, a 101 00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:07.639 comment from Jan Tarlemaine from show twelve to thirty nine, which is only a 102 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:15.279 few shows before, about cloud service updates making life difficult for developers, and 103 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:18.560 he'd just seen a plural sight course from John Seville. I remember John on 104 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.959 Sequel as You're and he mentioned some of the deprecated features. This is probably 105 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.279 much rare, but potentially a much worse problem than updates. It seems to 106 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:31.800 me that the classic challenge here is managing benefits to companies based on features. 107 00:08:31.600 --> 00:08:33.960 But otherwise, you guys, keep up the good work. We really like 108 00:08:35.399 --> 00:08:41.600 everything here and it run as radio. Thank you and we'll keep working on 109 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:46.320 the problem. And I just I've forgotten that, like seven years ago, 110 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:52.000 we were dealing with a lot of breaking changes. You know, Asure was 111 00:08:52.039 --> 00:08:56.600 relatively young, and they were learning more as a number of customers grew about 112 00:08:56.600 --> 00:09:00.799 how things should be architected. And it was an ongoing topic for us five 113 00:09:00.879 --> 00:09:03.159 hundred episodes ago. If we don't talk about that anymore, now we don't. 114 00:09:03.399 --> 00:09:07.440 It's true, great, Really, it's not a thing. I think 115 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:09.440 we're cred of hitting a maturity point where we can kind of count on the 116 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.879 product to give us pretty clear paths forwards. It still happens once in a 117 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:18.080 while, but they also give you lots of warning to migrade and give you 118 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.879 good migration paths. Yeah, so seekonette. Thank you so much for your 119 00:09:20.879 --> 00:09:22.159 comment and a copy of music. Cobuy is on its way to un If 120 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:24.759 you'd like a copy of music, go buy right a comment on the website 121 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:28.080 at dot net rocks dot com or on the facebooks publish every show there, 122 00:09:28.240 --> 00:09:31.480 and if you comment there and everyady on the show, we'll send you a 123 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:33.120 copy of music. Go buy, and you can follow us on Twitter if 124 00:09:33.120 --> 00:09:37.240 you want to. We've been there a long time. But the real fun 125 00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:41.200 stuff's happening on mass done. I met Carl Franklin at tech Hub dot social, 126 00:09:41.399 --> 00:09:46.000 and I'm rich Campbell at Massa dot dot social. Send us a tout 127 00:09:46.039 --> 00:09:50.159 Rudy too, Rich, Rudy, tuity, fresh and fruity, all right, 128 00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:54.960 right, something like that, All right to let me bring on our 129 00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:01.240 guests today. Savannah Trotsky is a senior product manager at Microsoft focused on Azure 130 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:05.679 Cloud native developer tools and experience. She's the product lead for the open source 131 00:10:05.720 --> 00:10:11.960 Azure Developer CLI, formerly known as azd a ZYD. Previously, she was 132 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:16.799 the proud manager for the Pilance Language Server, which powers the editing experience in 133 00:10:16.879 --> 00:10:22.879 visual Studio, code code Spaces, visual Studio, and more. She's passionate 134 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:26.960 about Python, open source software, debops, and developer experience. Welcome to 135 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.879 the show, Savannah, Hello, thanks for having me. Richard named Carl. 136 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.320 Nice to meet both of you as well. Yeah, definitely excited to 137 00:10:35.320 --> 00:10:37.919 have you on. And CLI is something that I used to use, you 138 00:10:37.960 --> 00:10:41.120 know, PowerShell, and then it's like built right into the portal. Now 139 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:45.279 you can just like click up and it's been there for a while. I 140 00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:48.840 realize that you just click a button and poof CLI. I love that. 141 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.679 Yeah, there's like a couple of different CLIs happening on Azure these days, 142 00:10:54.759 --> 00:10:58.559 like the like Azure Cli you said, PowerShell, cloud Shell stuff, and 143 00:10:58.600 --> 00:11:03.360 now the Azure Developer Cli. So alright, I'm better define the differences here 144 00:11:03.360 --> 00:11:07.080 because that's a lot of that's a lot of CLIs, I think. So 145 00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:11.360 yeah, I think with the Azure Developer Cli being a new product, I 146 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:16.240 think that is sort of a thing that we have to clarify a little bit. 147 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:20.600 So the Azure Developer CLI, the thing that I work on, is 148 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:28.159 a higher level application developer friendly CLI. So instead of you interacting with atomic 149 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.480 Azure resources like a particular service and passing in a bunch of parameters and flags 150 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:39.039 and configurations in an imperative way in the terminal, the Azure Developer Cli thinks 151 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:43.919 more about like the total application scope, so like all of the Azure resources 152 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:46.840 and how they kind of fit together. And so in the command line we 153 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:54.039 have our commands are more like initialized, provision, deploy up down, and 154 00:11:54.120 --> 00:12:00.159 we defer kind of that complexity to infrastructure is code more declarative model. So 155 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.080 that's kind of like the difference I guess um to two tools in the same 156 00:12:03.120 --> 00:12:07.039 tool belt, different different jobs to be done, right, right, So 157 00:12:07.200 --> 00:12:13.919 is that sort of in the UM the Palumi space or the other the I'm 158 00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:20.559 saying terraform. Yeah, yeah, So we support so um the Asure Developer 159 00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:24.279 CLI uses the infrastructure is code in the form of these application templates, and 160 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:30.120 today we support BICEP, which is the Microsoft flavor of infrastruct and Terraform. 161 00:12:30.919 --> 00:12:35.039 Our top most upboted issue on our GitHub repoot is also to support Pollumi. 162 00:12:35.919 --> 00:12:39.320 The people want it. That's great. That's the first one I really heard 163 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:43.799 about. But they've all been around for a while, all right. So 164 00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:46.559 when you have these high level commands, obviously there's a lot of stuff behind 165 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:52.320 them. So how you're assuming that you're connecting to your what your resource group 166 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:58.480 or something like that first, that is your overarching context for for this CLI? 167 00:12:58.759 --> 00:13:03.879 How does that work? So it's actually like a level but like higher 168 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:09.000 level than that, so like the whole like the original reason the Azure Developer 169 00:13:09.080 --> 00:13:15.039 CLI was created was really to like support application developers who don't necessarily have expertise 170 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:18.639 on Azure get their apps on Azure and so a lot of those folks don't 171 00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:22.399 necessarily know what resources they need for their application. They might be able to 172 00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:26.960 identify like their local app stack and the technologies they're using to build their prototype, 173 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:31.320 but they don't necessarily know I want Azure Container apps or Azure app service 174 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:33.960 with key vaults and all of that good stuff. And so the idea with 175 00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:39.879 AZD is that you go and you find an application template, which you can 176 00:13:39.879 --> 00:13:43.440 find on gethub. We have Microsoft authored ones that our team and other teams 177 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:48.120 of Microsoft have authored. There also community created templates. Find one that maps 178 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:54.159 to your local app stack, and then you basically swap out this the proof 179 00:13:54.159 --> 00:13:58.000 of concept source code that's in there and piggyback off of the infrastructure as code 180 00:13:58.039 --> 00:14:01.799 assets on daisi er so you don't have to fuss with kind of the complexity 181 00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:05.559 of Azure. I mean, step one is really get your app in the 182 00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:09.320 cloud right, and then as time goes on and as you have, you 183 00:14:09.360 --> 00:14:11.799 know, problems you want to sort out, Like maybe now your application serves 184 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.559 a million users, you might want to change some of the configurations and the 185 00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:22.399 skews and that kind of stuff to support a more high highly trafficked app or 186 00:14:22.399 --> 00:14:26.320 a website. And you can do that, but incrementally by kind of fine 187 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:30.000 tuning the infrastructure's code with a specific problem in mind, instead of having to 188 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.600 deal with all of the complexity of Azure right right from the get go. 189 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.519 Yeah, I mean me as a as a developer that is familiar with provisioning 190 00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:43.039 Azure resources. It sounds a little scary to me because if I just say 191 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:48.080 something like deploy, is it going to create resources that I'm now paying for 192 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:52.039 that I don't know what I'm paying for? Is it going to generate those 193 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.279 things for me? Or is it assume that those things exist before I get 194 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:01.559 to deploy? So all of those resources are defined in the infrastructure as code 195 00:15:01.600 --> 00:15:05.000 and so there's nothing like magical happening here. We're just kind of like, 196 00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:09.559 instead of that imperative like I'm touching an individual Azure resource or walking through the 197 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:13.840 Azure portal, we have this infrastructure as code that lives in the same application 198 00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:16.519 scope as the developers source code. So you can go in there understand what's 199 00:15:16.559 --> 00:15:20.679 happening, but the gestures that you need to use day to day are just 200 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.360 like a lot easier to remember. Got it? That makes sense? Yeah, 201 00:15:24.360 --> 00:15:26.799 it feels like this is a place to hide complexity, so you can 202 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:28.720 just go when you're ready to go and all of that. You only need 203 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:31.320 to work all this stuff out once. Yeah, I think I kind of 204 00:15:31.519 --> 00:15:35.720 talk about in terms of deferring the complexity, you know, because it's there, 205 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.120 like the complexity of the cloud is still there, and there's like learning 206 00:15:39.159 --> 00:15:43.879 to be done, right, but it's not like you're overwhelmed right from the 207 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:46.919 get go, and like you can focus on the problems you want to focus 208 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:48.519 on when you want to focus on them, right. I mean, we 209 00:15:48.639 --> 00:15:52.279 all we know we should be storing our secrets in key valls. The question 210 00:15:52.360 --> 00:15:54.799 is do you have to have all that set up first before you can do 211 00:15:54.840 --> 00:16:00.639 a deploy or these there workarounds here that then later I can put key vault 212 00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:06.759 in. Yeah, so in like the infrastructure's code, the key vault would 213 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:10.159 be defined there along with like monitoring infrastructure kind of all the stuff that you 214 00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:15.039 would need. And then today it's a pretty manual process to go in and 215 00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:18.120 tweak the the iic the infrastructure is code to add a key vault or add 216 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:22.480 a database later. But we are working on features maybe in the next six 217 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:26.919 months to a year from now, that would allow someone to inject infrastructure's code 218 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:30.440 into their project. One very important question. It's not a YAML file, 219 00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:34.919 is it. So we have an azure dot YAML, which is a very 220 00:16:36.279 --> 00:16:41.559 yeah, yet another yam file, right, we have like a very simple 221 00:16:41.720 --> 00:16:47.799 short YAML file we use to tell the developer CLI like it'll be like what 222 00:16:47.879 --> 00:16:51.080 services do you? I mean front end, back end. It has the 223 00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.039 language, the target hosts, so if you're using app service, and a 224 00:16:55.159 --> 00:16:57.240 path toward the source code lives and that's like basically all that really needs to 225 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:02.720 live in there. But the configuration isn't yammo, right, No, it's 226 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:08.240 bi separate terraform okay, right good and eventually polluted and someday pollumi probably. 227 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:12.400 So I'm literally grabbing links as fast as I can go because you know, 228 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:17.799 I found the Azure yamal for for AZD, like all of these are the 229 00:17:18.240 --> 00:17:21.599 little tidbits are like okay, I get this, I need that piece in 230 00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:26.119 this piece, Like it's still assembling the bits to make AZD behave for us. 231 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.599 Yeah. Yeah, the like the Azure yamal I kind of consider to 232 00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:33.160 be like the entry point for you telling a ZD like what it is you're 233 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:34.920 trying to do, and like where your quote code lives, and like how 234 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:38.799 it can stitch together the app and then the infra diirectory contains all of you 235 00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:44.160 your you know, the Azure specific infrastructure is code stuff and pull stuff from 236 00:17:44.200 --> 00:17:45.920 there and stitch it all together for you. Yeah, it's still a bunch 237 00:17:45.960 --> 00:17:51.519 of bits, there's no two ways about it. I did find the GitHub 238 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:56.240 repository for awesome AZD because and there's a ton of stuff here. Holy Macaroni's. 239 00:17:56.519 --> 00:18:00.559 Yeah, I like the whole awesome idea. There's a whole bunch of 240 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:03.200 awesome collections. Yeah. I have to give a like a shout out to 241 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:07.759 one of the cloud developer advocates. I work with Nitya who who came up 242 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:11.039 with the idea for calling it awesome. AZDM built the initial prototype of that 243 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.960 website, which like is really like a curated template gallery for various application stacks 244 00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:22.480 as your technologies, trying to make it more discoverable for folks to find the 245 00:18:22.559 --> 00:18:26.680 right recipe right well and not roll your own right. Look, here's here's 246 00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:34.480 a solution for implementing the for Kubernetes right for as your front door. It's 247 00:18:34.519 --> 00:18:40.599 like it's been solved. It almost reminds me of the PowerShell world where it's 248 00:18:40.599 --> 00:18:42.519 like listen, somebody's order written a chunk of PowerShell to do this, just 249 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.680 go get it from the gallery, like don't write your own Yeah, okay, 250 00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:51.000 to learn from it adapted And this feels very much the same sort of 251 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:55.440 thing of a lot of folks that put a lot of energy into putting all 252 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:57.920 of these templates together for you in advance that you can pick them up and 253 00:18:59.319 --> 00:19:03.200 assemble. It is something that's pretty comprehensive. Yeah, it's also been pretty 254 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:06.680 cool like in the you know, the current state of the world with all 255 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:10.559 the AI stuff coming out, there's like AI templates in there too, so 256 00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.039 like things like build your own chat GPT plug in and hosted on Azure, 257 00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:18.559 or build your own chat GPT like trained on your enterprise data so that you 258 00:19:18.599 --> 00:19:23.079 can have people use natural language to ask questions about their healthcare plan, you 259 00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:27.319 know. So it's it's pretty cool to see like the diversity of applications being 260 00:19:27.359 --> 00:19:30.799 built in there too. Yeah, look at them all. Yeah, this 261 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:33.839 is not just the plumbing for deploying an app service. Yeah, there's a 262 00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:37.440 lot of different pieces here and a lot of different directions you go in. 263 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.680 So I mean often when we say go in a ZT you know, that's 264 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:44.440 a lot of go. Yeah, all right, what else do we need 265 00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.440 to know? I know by the azure animal schema, and I'm glad to 266 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:52.920 know that it's as much of the animal as I'm gonna need only enough. 267 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:56.960 Yeah, but and then it sounds like biceps the first class citizen, Like 268 00:19:57.000 --> 00:20:00.720 that's probably my next step is to go spend some time with bicep. Yeah, 269 00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:04.559 bicep is sort of the like what we've seen a lot of folks adopting 270 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:11.400 mud right now. Bicep is kind of um it's it's in like our support 271 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.599 for bicep is in like a stable quote unquote stable state. Terraform is a 272 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:18.599 bit earlier on. It's it's an alpha right now behind a feature flag because 273 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:23.200 we wanted to com We recently introduced these alpha, beta, and stable kind 274 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.519 of feature stages for each feature as we rolled them out to communicate to folks 275 00:20:26.559 --> 00:20:30.319 like, maybe you don't want to use this in a production scenario today because 276 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.160 like the actual user experience of using this feature might change because we're like getting 277 00:20:34.160 --> 00:20:40.480 feedback, right so there, we're hoping to get Terraform also that stable state 278 00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.640 kind of with more use and more stress testing across applications and stuff. Funny 279 00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.960 that ties right back to Sea connects comment about changes in Azure and heavy services 280 00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:52.079 move from under view. Maybe maybe the other thing has happened in seven years 281 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.480 is that Microsoft themselves has gotten very disciplined about Hey, when we say stable, 282 00:20:56.519 --> 00:20:57.880 we mean stable, and if you implement this you can expect it to 283 00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:03.160 keep working for atty pain Leslie. But when we say beta or you know, 284 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:07.000 experimental, you should expect this to shift from under you. And so 285 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:10.920 you've at least got fair warning that you might be surprised when the newer version 286 00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:14.160 comes along. Yeah, I mean, I think trying to avoid situations where 287 00:21:14.200 --> 00:21:18.880 people have unpleasant surprises and their stuff is broken, especially because you can run 288 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:23.000 a CD and CI pipelines as well, like making sure like there's a good 289 00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:29.400 contract there and that people can rely on it for business critical scenarios without you 290 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:33.359 know, unpleasant stuff. Well it's this, you say, the main thing, 291 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:36.880 which is the surprise break? Right? Like that's the one where right, 292 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:40.200 I just I just pushed code, you know, I just accepted a 293 00:21:40.240 --> 00:21:44.640 pull request and now I have a string of errors and everybody's like, what 294 00:21:44.880 --> 00:21:48.960 just happened? And it's got nothing you do with my pr it's got everything 295 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:53.599 to do with some service change somewhere in the pipeline and we're exploding now and 296 00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:57.319 now you have to dismantle all that and check bit by bit to figure out, 297 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.640 like what's the broken bid. Yeah, and that itself is sort of 298 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:06.519 like antithetical to azd's value prop, right, But like we want to keep 299 00:22:06.559 --> 00:22:11.319 people focused on the business critical scenarios that they're trying to go after. And 300 00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.920 so if we're like, you know, causing breaking changes for folks, that 301 00:22:15.079 --> 00:22:18.680 is like derailing them from their path from A to B, that's that's bad. 302 00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:21.000 Right. So yeah, it's like, hey, you know, I 303 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:26.599 had work to do. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, I 304 00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:30.839 appreciate that. And it also speaks to it's up to us to be smart 305 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:34.160 about reading these things and knowing I only want the stable stuff put in. 306 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:38.319 Maybe it's a few fewer futures and I really really wanted, but I'm going 307 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:42.440 to be surprised far less often if I stick with the stable set and then 308 00:22:42.480 --> 00:22:47.480 only experimental. And I absolutely have to because I need that feature desperately. 309 00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:52.079 Yeah, we have a couple of things in alpha state right now, terror 310 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.319 Form, our support for Azure Spring apps. And also we recently added resource 311 00:22:56.319 --> 00:23:00.839 groups scope to deployments. Previously we only supported such ryption scope, but we 312 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:03.319 wanted to also give people some more flexibility and their infrastructure as code. So 313 00:23:03.599 --> 00:23:08.640 yeah, that's a cool idea resource scoping, just because you know, as 314 00:23:08.640 --> 00:23:12.440 your environments are getting massive, so me being able to say, having to 315 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.119 create a resource group for all of these things, and that's where you play. 316 00:23:15.359 --> 00:23:18.880 Yeah, and we allow you now to like with that feature, like 317 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.640 bring an existing resource group to a ZED right right. Previously we always support 318 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.200 the case where we were creating resource groups for the user and then putting all 319 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:30.960 their resources in there, but we want to enable scenarios where people might want 320 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:36.440 to like adopt AZD beyond, just like true day zero scenarios. So right, 321 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:38.559 yeah, yeah, and there in lies the problem with these kinds of 322 00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.680 tools, like taking an existing app and getting it to work through this is 323 00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.759 not a trivial problem. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'm reading 324 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:53.079 the I'm scanning the documentation here and there's some information about customizing workflows using command 325 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:59.000 and event hooks and that that really piqued my interest because you know, the 326 00:23:59.079 --> 00:24:02.240 more we can hook into these things, that you know, more we can 327 00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:03.720 take advantage of them. I think, how does that work? Yeah, 328 00:24:03.759 --> 00:24:07.880 so we have support for pre impost command, and like kind of service life 329 00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:11.200 cycle hooks, so things like oh, you want to run a script before 330 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:15.759 your provision or after provision or before deploy or after deploy, like, we 331 00:24:15.799 --> 00:24:18.279 give you kind of that flexibility. I think the reality is was when you're 332 00:24:18.319 --> 00:24:22.160 building a tool for all developers, you kind of have to make it sort 333 00:24:22.200 --> 00:24:26.839 of malleable, right because everyone's got their own workflow or scripts they want to 334 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:32.279 run ahead of a deployment. So we tried to kind of give that flexibility 335 00:24:32.279 --> 00:24:36.000 through the through the hook support. Yeah, very cool. Nice. Another 336 00:24:36.039 --> 00:24:42.160 thing I see is make your project a ZED compatible. So a project isn't 337 00:24:42.200 --> 00:24:45.000 compatible with a z D right out of the box. What does that mean 338 00:24:45.279 --> 00:24:52.480 so today? Yeah, so today there is some overhead and kind of rolling 339 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.279 your own AZD combatible projects, so that there's kind of two paths. One 340 00:24:56.359 --> 00:25:02.319 is finding a template and building off of some one's existing work and infrastructure's code, 341 00:25:02.559 --> 00:25:04.799 swapping out that source code for your own, modifying it, and then 342 00:25:04.839 --> 00:25:08.519 AZD upping it, which will package, provision and deploy the Apple Azure. 343 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:14.279 Then there's like the option of I actually don't want to start from a template. 344 00:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.279 I want to start from my own I know how to write infrastructure is 345 00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:21.559 code. I need to write infrastructure's code. I need to make like add 346 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:25.480 an Azure amble to the project and then azd app it. So there's like 347 00:25:25.880 --> 00:25:29.680 there is some work there. We are working on some features that would allow 348 00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:33.240 a developer to not have to do either of those things, where we would 349 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:37.200 maybe infer kind of what the local app stack is and then generate some infrastructure 350 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:41.799 as code for them. We started some early prototyping on that, but yeah, 351 00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:45.359 that's definitely still one of the things that I'd like to get us past, 352 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:48.599 because that's it's not sometimes not trivial, right, Yeah, I mean 353 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.359 we've often run into this issue where it's like I want you to parse my 354 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:56.440 existing application to make a template for me, essentially like work with what i've 355 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:00.480 got. Yeah, but that's not a simple problem. People do crazy things. 356 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:07.440 Who knows what the code the infrastructure looks like? But yeah, I 357 00:26:07.480 --> 00:26:11.119 guess that you know today right now, the challenge with an existing brownfield app 358 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.640 is to go thumb through the templates and say, like, what do I 359 00:26:14.720 --> 00:26:18.079 need? Yeah, it's close to fit these things together, yeah, yeah, 360 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:19.880 and then figure out the rough spots. Yeah, and there are like 361 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:26.039 some templates that are more targeted at the enterprise scenarios. Like there's a reliable 362 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.799 dot net web app one which I think is like a true twelve factor app, 363 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:33.119 and we have like some JavaScript ones. There was one like that shows 364 00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:37.680 like a full real estate website with like a payment system and a blog and 365 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:41.279 like a listing and it's wow. Yeah that came out at Builds a couple 366 00:26:41.279 --> 00:26:45.680 of weeks ago, and definitely seeing some people like really building large proof of 367 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:52.240 like kind of sample architectures, and also some like pretty basic stuff too, 368 00:26:52.279 --> 00:26:53.319 so kind of across the board. But yeah, you're right, like I 369 00:26:53.359 --> 00:26:57.920 think, especially if you've got like a large enterprise brownfield application, like it's 370 00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.319 it's still a ask, right, Yeah, no question. I mean, 371 00:27:02.480 --> 00:27:06.400 and I appreciate someone going to the trouble to build that sort of comprehensive wide 372 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:10.839 app model as a template. Not that I'll probably use it directly, but 373 00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:12.920 it's a great starting point for me to look at it and go, now, 374 00:27:12.960 --> 00:27:15.960 how would I build this for my app with each of these pieces sort 375 00:27:15.960 --> 00:27:19.440 of knowing how to break them down into the significant segments and what each of 376 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:25.519 them would look like. But yeah, here and this is great when you're 377 00:27:25.559 --> 00:27:27.839 starting something new, to just go all right, we've made We've got a 378 00:27:27.839 --> 00:27:30.319 whiteboard scenario here. We kind of know what we want to go. I 379 00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:34.240 think this templates closest let's go and you a z D from the very beginning. 380 00:27:34.480 --> 00:27:38.160 Yeah, like retrofitting a ZD in new existing project just going to be 381 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.599 more challenging. Yeah, and it like not in not between now and the 382 00:27:42.680 --> 00:27:45.880 end of this year, but probably early next year, we'll be focusing kind 383 00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.319 of more on that, like what I kind of call compose ability, right, 384 00:27:49.440 --> 00:27:52.200 or like maybe I start out with a basic app, but then later 385 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.160 I decide I need to add more components to it, or you know, 386 00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:59.960 swap out my database, or like how do we enable people to do that? 387 00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:03.000 Because that's common, right, Like when you later decide or discover that 388 00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:06.319 there's some problem that you need to add infrastructure like that is something that comes 389 00:28:06.359 --> 00:28:08.400 up pretty often. But yeah, yeah, starting with the kind of onboarding 390 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:12.559 scenarios first and then kind of the project to grow up stories as well. 391 00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:18.079 Absolutely, and Savana, I'm gonna interrupt for one moment this very important message 392 00:28:21.960 --> 00:28:25.319 and we're back it's done at Rocks. I'm Richard Campbell, that's Carl Franklin 393 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:30.240 Yo. Talking to our friend Savannah from Microsoft a bit about AZD which is 394 00:28:30.279 --> 00:28:34.920 the Azure Developer CLI, not the PowerShell CLI, not the as Your CLI. 395 00:28:36.119 --> 00:28:40.559 They're different, but very much focused on the on the dev challenge, 396 00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:42.640 and we right before the break we were talking a bit about like, I'm 397 00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:45.720 changing the infrastructure for my app, Like, what's this going to look like? 398 00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.200 I can't imagine. In fact, I've been talking to a company's dealing 399 00:28:49.240 --> 00:28:53.640 with this where the happily using as your sequel. Now there's parts of the 400 00:28:53.680 --> 00:28:56.799 app that are that are widely distributed, more performance sensitive, and you're like, 401 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.160 hey, we're talking about using Cosmos for part of this, so I 402 00:29:00.200 --> 00:29:04.519 would imagine you'd bring in Cosmo the Cosmos template just to make it part of 403 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:07.960 the deploy And you've really got the You're not you're not going to hang up 404 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.279 as your sequel. That's not going away, but we're moving pieces of the 405 00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:18.039 workload over to Cosmos dB and having those deploys run as well, and then 406 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.759 making some connectors and things to synchronize data eventually, but I need that performance 407 00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:25.880 on the front end. So I've got this platform that'll do it for me, 408 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:27.519 but I got to add it into the equation. Am I thinking the 409 00:29:27.599 --> 00:29:33.039 right way? Yeah? I mean that that's the scenario we like, eventually 410 00:29:33.079 --> 00:29:37.440 we do want to support UM, But like, I think the tricky part 411 00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:41.200 is there, Like what is the developer experience of like adding or modifying your 412 00:29:41.240 --> 00:29:45.119 infrastructure as code or like actually updating it, right, Because like the thing 413 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:51.039 is, like a lot of application developers don't necessarily care about infrastructure as code 414 00:29:51.039 --> 00:29:55.400 if they're uninitiated, right, they care about the flexibility and deployments. They 415 00:29:55.400 --> 00:29:57.640 care about, you know, being able to like find two and stuff, 416 00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:02.359 but that infrastructure is own piece, especially if they don't understand the value prop 417 00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:06.200 of infrastructure as code. It's really just like a means to an end for 418 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:10.000 them. So like we're trying to like figure out the right gestures to expose 419 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:11.799 that in right, it's part of my fast deploy process, right, It's 420 00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:15.200 that I don't want to think about deployment. So I have all of the 421 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:21.480 I learned enough I ac at the time to get the pipeline working, and 422 00:30:21.519 --> 00:30:23.799 then it all fell out of my head because now I've got to work on 423 00:30:23.920 --> 00:30:29.559 my code and so each time I go back to make changes to that for 424 00:30:29.599 --> 00:30:33.480 whatever reason, it's like starting over. Yeah, you know, I don't. 425 00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:34.839 I don't think we do. Most of us do with this, and 426 00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:40.240 often enough to actually retain it. It's like red Jax in a way, 427 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.359 like you can't hold that stuff in your head. I've never learned redj X. 428 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.839 It's just something I go into a validator every single time, right, 429 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:51.880 absolutely, And I feel the same way about you know. I know there's 430 00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.440 folks out there that work on this stuff all the time because they're they are 431 00:30:55.519 --> 00:31:00.119 the specialist for their organization and they're taken care of a dozen projects. But 432 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:04.440 that's not me. All right. I've got my projects, and I'm partly 433 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.440 responsible for some of the IAC stuff. I'm also talking to maybe subsistemins in 434 00:31:08.519 --> 00:31:11.599 it, and so I'm kind of picking it up from scratch every time. 435 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.160 Yeah, and so you know, everything you can do to make that easier 436 00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:18.799 for me, to sort of guide me down the path. That's pretty compelling, 437 00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:25.119 certainly for the initial builds. But this, you know, it's adding 438 00:31:25.160 --> 00:31:27.079 weight to changing infrastructure. Oh, if we're going to change the infratructure, 439 00:31:27.119 --> 00:31:30.759 that also means you have to change the pipeline, Like what does that look 440 00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.559 like? What do we got to do? Yeah, And kind of like 441 00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.039 another feature that we're working on in the next couple months is this like what 442 00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:41.160 we are calling like an application scaffolding wizard, So that would be like I 443 00:31:41.200 --> 00:31:47.240 know actually things about ashore, I know what services I want. Can azyd 444 00:31:47.319 --> 00:31:48.759 allow me to walk through a wizard and say, I want key vall, 445 00:31:48.960 --> 00:31:53.759 I want container apps, I want this thing and just spit out infrastructure as 446 00:31:53.799 --> 00:31:57.799 code modules with smart defaults that I can go in and tweak. So that 447 00:31:57.960 --> 00:32:02.200 that's kind of like horrific or like related to this effort that my team is 448 00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:06.559 working on for our templates that we've authored, which is like actually coming up 449 00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.640 with a set of BICEP modules that use those smart defaults or like are like 450 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:14.079 we think are a good starting point and we'll be working to get those into 451 00:32:14.119 --> 00:32:16.160 the BICEP registry so that folks can have a good foundation to build on. 452 00:32:16.240 --> 00:32:20.759 But like to your point, a lot of the time it's like if you 453 00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.400 don't write it, i AC all the time you're back in Microsoft Docs trying 454 00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.640 to lowing BICEP or look at terror form right, and then you need to 455 00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:31.480 figure out what are the supported keys and all the values and configurations for each 456 00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:36.160 particular service, and like that's I mean, some people are experts in it, 457 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:38.440 but it's definitely something that folks have to continue to revisit API. Oh 458 00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:43.160 no, I've added comments to my own I a c that says, hey, 459 00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:45.359 dummy, this is like the fifth time you've been here, you're going 460 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:49.880 to make these mistakes. Do this and this, so you know, way 461 00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:53.240 you you have a mandate to keep it high level because otherwise you're creeping towards 462 00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:58.599 just being another portal, right with all the wizards and go to fill out 463 00:32:58.640 --> 00:33:00.720 this form first and then this form in the net form. It's and there's 464 00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.279 nothing wrong with a portal. Yeah, I love I use it all the 465 00:33:04.319 --> 00:33:07.920 time. Yeah, And there's some efforts like kind of a sister team to 466 00:33:08.160 --> 00:33:13.200 my team. Is this new Azure app spaces Portal that came out at build, 467 00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.839 which is a more developer friendly portal blade and like so like there are 468 00:33:17.880 --> 00:33:22.720 like there's nothing wrong with portal or CLI. I think when we talk about 469 00:33:22.759 --> 00:33:24.599 why would someone come and use one or the other, it's more just like 470 00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:28.599 some people just have a preference for it, right, Yeah, your style, 471 00:33:28.720 --> 00:33:30.119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, or sometimes there's things you like, there's 472 00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:35.480 certain tasks that ares not well suited to CLI, like monitoring dashboards like I'm 473 00:33:35.480 --> 00:33:38.599 not going to go and like ship like anything that uses a lot of imagery 474 00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:42.440 is like best suited to a portal for sure too. So you know what 475 00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:45.960 else too that the CLI generally doesn't change too much, whereas the portal. 476 00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.880 You know, you could learn how to do a task one month and come 477 00:33:50.880 --> 00:33:53.720 back the next month and the everything's been redefined and redone and everything else. 478 00:33:53.759 --> 00:33:58.119 So yeah, I run into that problem because I document a lot of this 479 00:33:58.160 --> 00:34:00.279 stuff for a YouTube show, and I get people saying, hey, you 480 00:34:00.279 --> 00:34:05.920 know the portal in your video doesn't look like the portal now, yeah, 481 00:34:05.920 --> 00:34:08.719 where is this? Where is that things get moved around? That's that's sort 482 00:34:08.719 --> 00:34:13.719 of reality. But I'm feeling really prescient for my comment at the beginning of 483 00:34:13.719 --> 00:34:16.920 the show change right, It's like there is still pieces that are changing. 484 00:34:17.599 --> 00:34:21.440 It's not like they're taking anything away. It's just like I don't know where 485 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:24.400 to look now. And in some way, the CLI solves that problem because 486 00:34:24.400 --> 00:34:28.840 it's done the look at it's the script. It's just when the script breaks, 487 00:34:29.239 --> 00:34:31.039 Now what you know, how do you how do you debug it? 488 00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:35.760 How do you you trace it down? It's this is where I think these 489 00:34:35.840 --> 00:34:38.519 things get challenging, because it's still very much the same old how far did 490 00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:43.360 it get? You know? How am I spinning up messages to show where 491 00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:46.960 it fails? Like those kinds of things. We're still doing pretty ridomentary debugging 492 00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:53.400 when it comes to uh BICEP and I guess you know, act executing on 493 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:57.039 top of it. Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely an area 494 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:00.559 that still needs some some polish. Something that we want to like work on 495 00:35:00.760 --> 00:35:04.920 in the next couple months as well, is trying to like when we like 496 00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:09.360 the errors that sometimes you see coming from Azure are not very descriptive or or 497 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:13.440 actionable, right, and then you're like, you know, off googling, 498 00:35:13.440 --> 00:35:16.639 and so like, how how can we help folks course correct and like get 499 00:35:16.639 --> 00:35:20.239 back on track, or like, as are there docs that we should be 500 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:22.599 suggesting people too so they don't have to go and do the Google searching or 501 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:25.599 whatever, so or being searching if that's your flavor of search. But like, 502 00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:29.960 you know, um, I think that that is a good point and 503 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.800 definitely something that we have work to do with. Yeah, and it's not 504 00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.239 just you, like that's a huge array of stuff. Like, Yeah, 505 00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.199 the problem is that once you know what the problem is, the message makes 506 00:35:40.239 --> 00:35:45.280 total sense. Yeah, but often it is not. Other than saying we 507 00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:49.000 are broken, it doesn't say anything to you at the beginning when you when 508 00:35:49.039 --> 00:35:52.320 you don't know what it is. Yeah, for sure, I didn't get 509 00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.000 a chance to spend to really look at asure app spaces steering builds just because 510 00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.440 there was a lot going on. But it is interesting to think in terms 511 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:06.360 of more and more we're going to have our own corner of Azure for doing 512 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.039 development that then ties into the larger app Azure for deployment. I just wonder 513 00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:14.559 what impact that's going to have for a ZD, Like does that make easy 514 00:36:14.639 --> 00:36:22.159 these life easier to just deploy into an app space rather than the overall infrastructure. 515 00:36:22.360 --> 00:36:25.320 I mean I think that the So the thing that like I'm most interested 516 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:28.679 in, right is, like if we're using a z D as this like 517 00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:34.320 quote unquote more developer friendly way of approaching Azure, I'd love for that same 518 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:38.800 paradigm to like carry into the portal when a developer inevitably ends up there, 519 00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:42.840 right, Because even if we keep them in the CLI while they're doing their 520 00:36:42.840 --> 00:36:45.480 development, they're going to end up looking at the portal at some point, 521 00:36:45.679 --> 00:36:49.079 right, Yeah, And so like one of the things that like I'm focused 522 00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:53.079 on is like can we make the paradigm feel natural and good regardless of where 523 00:36:53.079 --> 00:36:57.000 you end up. And then also like we have integrations and editors. We 524 00:36:57.039 --> 00:37:00.679 have a vs code extension we haven't experienced in visual studio, Like how can 525 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:04.880 we tie that that thread across all of those different clients? Yeah, yeah, 526 00:37:04.920 --> 00:37:08.760 that's and it's appealing to different audiences too, because certainly we get email 527 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:12.559 from folks. It's like I live in studio and that's all I live in 528 00:37:12.639 --> 00:37:15.440 and I don't care about the rest of the stuff. Give me the button 529 00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.639 to click on. Yeah, and it's and a doct dialogue on the right 530 00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.760 side that tells me what happened and I am content. Yeah, nothing wrong 531 00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:28.519 with that either. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean why upside 532 00:37:28.519 --> 00:37:30.639 to a CD is you don't have to be a dotnet deloper to be using 533 00:37:30.679 --> 00:37:34.760 this, Like this is any kind of developer that's going too is going to 534 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:38.800 appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, we currently support dot net and or C 535 00:37:39.000 --> 00:37:45.199 sharp, F sharp whatever. And then also Python JavaScript or type script and 536 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:50.199 Java. See there's if you go to that template website, you'll see templates 537 00:37:50.239 --> 00:37:53.440 across combinations of all of those. It was adjust the languages that then you've 538 00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:58.239 got support for apps services, container apps, static web apps, function apps, 539 00:37:58.320 --> 00:38:02.159 Kuberneti services, and there must be more than that by now, and 540 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.320 also Azure Spring apps for for Java devs as well. So like we target 541 00:38:07.360 --> 00:38:13.000 all kind of the major compute targets for Azure nice, and that means all 542 00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:15.079 different development tools in front of all of that. Like, this is part 543 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:19.719 of the challenge for us that you now have a pivot point between how I 544 00:38:19.800 --> 00:38:23.760 construct software and then at the point of which I want to deploy it can 545 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:28.639 step into AZD and deploy into Azure with that. Yeah, I think that's 546 00:38:28.679 --> 00:38:32.840 sort of like the beauty and also the complexity of working on a tool for 547 00:38:32.960 --> 00:38:37.760 all developers, right, is that each one of those types, Like even 548 00:38:37.800 --> 00:38:40.199 if you just looked at Python, they're like so many different flavors of Python, 549 00:38:40.920 --> 00:38:44.760 right, and then if you look at all the languages and you add 550 00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:49.119 Kubernetes, you add containers, you add micro service architecture, there's a lot 551 00:38:49.159 --> 00:38:52.119 of different workflows and so like thinking through things like how do we I don't 552 00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:54.920 want to like build a tool that just wraps all of those tools, Like 553 00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.519 how do we play nicely in that developer's ecosystem, their toolchain, whatever they're 554 00:39:00.639 --> 00:39:05.639 using. Right, that's something that is a very fun problem to sometimes think 555 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.719 about. Oh for sure, Yeah, without being prescriptive. You want to 556 00:39:08.119 --> 00:39:10.320 you want to embrace what they're doing, but at the same time, you 557 00:39:10.320 --> 00:39:14.519 don't want to make it too complex that it forces them away. Yeah, 558 00:39:14.519 --> 00:39:17.599 and also enforce like best practices type stuff like meet people where they're at, 559 00:39:17.599 --> 00:39:22.719 but also sometimes try and nudge them towards the right thing, like don't hard 560 00:39:22.760 --> 00:39:25.320 code your seek are using AI in any of this, looking at what they're 561 00:39:25.320 --> 00:39:30.440 doing and say you may want to do something else here something. Yeah, 562 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:35.480 we're definitely like exploring that angle in this current state of the world, right, 563 00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:38.639 I think everyone's sort of considering AI. I think I'm team like put 564 00:39:38.679 --> 00:39:44.440 AI in things where it makes sense and like is actually doing good stuff. 565 00:39:45.039 --> 00:39:46.840 So like one of the things we're looking at is like can we use AI 566 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.559 from doing that I infer and applications of local app stack and then generate infrastructure 567 00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:59.079 as code. So like kind of investigating that and also investigating non AI powered 568 00:39:59.119 --> 00:40:00.800 approaches to doing that as well. I'm figuring out, you know, which 569 00:40:00.800 --> 00:40:07.159 one is actually gonna meet the most folks needs and actually support the variety of 570 00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:09.440 developers that we have trying to use a z D. Absolutely. One thing 571 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:14.719 that would be really cool is to get an estimate of the cost of things. 572 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.480 You know, when you're wrapping these things up and thinking about them, 573 00:40:16.519 --> 00:40:21.920 how much would it cost to do this? You know stack, that'd be 574 00:40:21.960 --> 00:40:25.400 really cool. Yeah, for sure. I've heard that ask a couple times, 575 00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:29.599 actually, like several times since starting to work on this project. I've 576 00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:31.320 working on a CD for about a year. But I think like that's a 577 00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:35.599 recurring theme, is like people want to know how much it costs to like 578 00:40:36.039 --> 00:40:37.880 run one of the templates we have or you know, and figure they don't 579 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.440 want to like, you know, shoot themselves in the foot, hire a 580 00:40:42.519 --> 00:40:45.159 general contractor you want an estimate. Yeah, yeah, right right. Weird. 581 00:40:45.360 --> 00:40:50.519 Everyone's cloud fear is like they rack up a four hundred dollar bill and 582 00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:53.000 then they're like, you know, out of luck. So trying to avoid 583 00:40:53.039 --> 00:40:58.119 that for sure. I just did a show and run as radio called Azure 584 00:40:58.239 --> 00:41:01.639 Sticker Shock. Yeah, talking to aid and Finn about that, and he's 585 00:41:01.679 --> 00:41:05.440 you know, he's happened to me, describes exactly that scenario. Well, 586 00:41:05.679 --> 00:41:08.760 working in a bigger company too, where suddenly the CFOs on the phone going 587 00:41:08.920 --> 00:41:14.639 what are you people doing down there? Oh no, this is a five 588 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:19.400 digit number out of nowhere. Yeah, I had that, fans. Yeah. 589 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:22.840 Well, and just just knowing that there are cost management tools that you 590 00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:28.079 can set baselines on how on what a reasonable spend is so that you get 591 00:41:28.119 --> 00:41:30.519 warnings. I think you can do that in Azure anyway like that. That's 592 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:32.800 a yeah, that's a feature. You can, without a doubt have a 593 00:41:32.800 --> 00:41:37.519 watchdog and you should be doing that. But that's still post factor right yeah, 594 00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:39.199 right, which you're talking about, which I think is wicked cool, 595 00:41:39.480 --> 00:41:45.599 is just estimate, doing a basic enumeration based on the deploy and saying this 596 00:41:45.639 --> 00:41:49.039 should cost between this and this a month. The portal already does that, 597 00:41:49.159 --> 00:41:52.320 like on a resource by resource basis when you're going to make a sequel server 598 00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.599 or whatever. Yeah, here's the skew and here's about how much it's going 599 00:41:55.639 --> 00:42:00.280 to cost a month. You know, I like that, but yeah, 600 00:42:00.280 --> 00:42:02.599 to add them all up, yeah, at the application level, that would 601 00:42:02.599 --> 00:42:07.199 be pretty I think a lot of people would really love that. So even 602 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:09.239 if you just had to take those files and pump it into a into a 603 00:42:09.360 --> 00:42:13.519 gadget and then it came back and gave you estimates, right like, it 604 00:42:13.519 --> 00:42:15.440 doesn't even have to be part of the bill process so much that it's just 605 00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:19.960 like, hey, I've done all this work to describe what I'm going to 606 00:42:20.159 --> 00:42:22.840 use, rather than retype it or anything. Can I just upload these files 607 00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:27.280 to me and you'll give me an estimate? Woo? Because it is you 608 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:29.280 know, then I could add it to the pipeline. It's like in the 609 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:31.159 pipeline, we do this thing and then I fire off the estimate and you'll 610 00:42:31.199 --> 00:42:35.239 get an email it said, here's the estimate based on the current deploy woo. 611 00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:38.239 Hey, if I can shift cares for a second. In the bio, 612 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:43.800 you say you were the product manager for the Pielance Language Server, which 613 00:42:43.800 --> 00:42:46.440 powers the editing experience for all these you know, visual studio, code code 614 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:51.159 spaces, visual studio. What is that and why haven't I heard of that? 615 00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:53.599 Oh? Yeah, so I used to work on Python language tooling at 616 00:42:53.599 --> 00:42:59.519 Microsoft, and so the Pilance Language Server powers editing experience for Python, and 617 00:43:00.360 --> 00:43:02.480 well, for Python. Yeah, in in vs code, visual studio, 618 00:43:02.599 --> 00:43:06.960 and some stuff on Azure too. That's why I haven't heard of it. 619 00:43:07.039 --> 00:43:10.000 Yeah, you're not a Python person. I'm not a Python guy, but 620 00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:14.400 I hear all the cool kids today are doing Python. Python was my first 621 00:43:14.400 --> 00:43:19.920 programming language, so I'm a I'm a big fan, especially in scientific in 622 00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:23.320 academia, like it's that's all they use. Yeah. Yeah. My GitHub 623 00:43:23.320 --> 00:43:27.360 report at the end of twenty twenty two said I wrote more Python than anything 624 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.320 else last year, and it shocked me. I didn't mean to. It 625 00:43:30.360 --> 00:43:34.239 was an accident, but you know, I was doing a bunch of datal 626 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:39.719 handling stuff and by golly, Python's awfully good at that. The only thing 627 00:43:39.719 --> 00:43:44.920 that made me satter is in the number two was yeavil oh no, and 628 00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:49.000 then c sharp came in third. So I did write some c sharp last 629 00:43:49.079 --> 00:43:55.840 year. But what happened to me? Oh man, that's so funny. 630 00:43:57.079 --> 00:44:00.360 You know. The piece we've just been sort of quietly walking around, which 631 00:44:00.400 --> 00:44:04.960 I think is a big issue I than talking about Keybault is the security aspects 632 00:44:05.000 --> 00:44:09.039 just and I would hope in these templates, especially like that they are staying 633 00:44:09.639 --> 00:44:14.440 here's where the keys go. This should be locked up. This needs to 634 00:44:14.480 --> 00:44:20.320 be validated. Do you need certificates on both sides of this, Like overall 635 00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:22.360 when I wear my tinfoil hat on the security side of stuff and run as 636 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.840 radio. We're talking a lot about supply chain breaching, that the black hats 637 00:44:27.840 --> 00:44:32.280 are now targeting code deploys as a way to insert malicious code to get access 638 00:44:32.320 --> 00:44:37.519 to systems, and that there's a real pressure now for developers to have a 639 00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:40.639 more secure pipeline. Yeah, with all the templates, especially the ones that 640 00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.840 are coming in on Microsoft, like we're trying to enforce kind of those best 641 00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:49.559 practices because I think there's like when you do your Google searching about getting your 642 00:44:49.559 --> 00:44:52.119 app on a particular service, it doesn't really upfront say you should use key 643 00:44:52.159 --> 00:44:55.239 vault and not hard code your tokens and secrets, or like you should maybe 644 00:44:55.320 --> 00:44:59.599 consider using a v net here or you know, something like that. So 645 00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:05.119 we we like definitely like internally think about that kind of stuff and make sure 646 00:45:05.159 --> 00:45:07.440 that that's coming in the templates. And then when they're communities submitted templates to 647 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:12.360 the gallery, we are running through them and testing them and reviewing the BICEP 648 00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.480 code because we don't want to promote a scenario, which we're like, you 649 00:45:15.599 --> 00:45:19.159 probably don't want to be doing that. It's an insecure scenario, right, 650 00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.440 and so we are thinking about, like right now that process is a bit 651 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:25.760 manual for the gallery we are we are thinking about also adding it a command 652 00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:31.079 like AZD validate, which would like help us kind of build some automation or 653 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.639 like basically allowed developers to kind of get a sense of whether or not it 654 00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:37.920 would be one admitted to the template gallery based on some of the standards we 655 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:42.719 have internally on our kind of our pipelines when we go and make templates, 656 00:45:43.760 --> 00:45:46.880 but also like trying to enforce best practices because it's not really enough that you 657 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:49.880 just get your out to the cloud. It's like, we want you to 658 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:52.920 be set up for success to right, and enough people are just struggling to 659 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:57.480 make this work. Is like tear away anything I think is not essential to 660 00:45:57.519 --> 00:46:00.039 get this up in the first place, right, and so security off and 661 00:46:00.119 --> 00:46:04.000 gets ditched, but more and more refining out the trying to retrofit security into 662 00:46:04.039 --> 00:46:08.199 that is worse and building to get it into the pipeline at the beginning. 663 00:46:08.239 --> 00:46:14.280 This is very what they're calling shift left these days, hitting security as part 664 00:46:14.320 --> 00:46:19.159 of the initial implementation makes a huge difference. But although we are talking two 665 00:46:19.159 --> 00:46:23.360 different things here, there's security within the application itself, but also the security 666 00:46:23.400 --> 00:46:30.199 of the deployment pipeline because they are now targets of exploitation and a CD as 667 00:46:30.239 --> 00:46:34.480 a role to play in both of those. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, 668 00:46:34.519 --> 00:46:38.639 for sure. Yeah, it's definitely something like we want to keep like 669 00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.480 top of mind. That whole shift left thing is definitely something we talk about 670 00:46:43.519 --> 00:46:46.079 a lot internally as well as like figuring out how we can because I think 671 00:46:46.679 --> 00:46:51.159 the part to think of or to kind of put in front of an uninitiated 672 00:46:51.199 --> 00:46:54.239 developer someone who's new, is like why some of this stuff exists, or 673 00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:59.320 like that education component, because at the end of the day, like like 674 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:01.719 you said, some most you want to strip away everything that's not necessary or 675 00:47:02.199 --> 00:47:06.400 because they don't understand the value it adds if it's not just like I did 676 00:47:06.400 --> 00:47:08.599 the thing I got my app on Azure, so kind of yeah, I 677 00:47:08.599 --> 00:47:12.800 got a running close enough, right, like at least I'm up, yeah, 678 00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:15.000 right, And I think the thing is that is a non trivial task 679 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:19.480 sometimes right, yes, and often the moment it's up there now they're using 680 00:47:19.480 --> 00:47:22.639 it so retrofitting anything gets hard. Yeah, they're like I'm done now, 681 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:24.480 Like, yeah, yeah, it serving my audience. But yeah, I 682 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:29.199 think like trying to enforce those best practices kind of throughout the workflow, not 683 00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:31.559 just in like the local development scenario, but as people continue to iterate and 684 00:47:31.679 --> 00:47:35.800 use AZD commands and like add them to their CI pipelines and stuff, like, 685 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:39.159 we want to be thinking about the security dimension as well. Yeah, 686 00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:45.159 getting better at that and just helping us do the right thing because you're trying 687 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.280 to get it in afterwards is becoming more and more difficult. Savannah, what's 688 00:47:49.320 --> 00:47:52.519 next for you? What's in your inbox? What's in my inbox? M 689 00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:55.639 Yeah, we're working that. I'm working on a bunch of features, specs 690 00:47:55.639 --> 00:48:00.159 and stuff for some of that, like inference of local stack generate I C. 691 00:48:02.039 --> 00:48:07.360 I've got to talk coming up in July for BS Live Redmond, all 692 00:48:07.400 --> 00:48:13.519 about as your developer. Clim So got a prep for some public more public 693 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:17.320 speaking stuff, but the summer is a little quieter than pre build because we 694 00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:22.199 gad az a build and it was in a couple different keynotes and stuff, 695 00:48:22.599 --> 00:48:27.480 so just kind of we have a pretty public facing roadmap on our GitHub repo, 696 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:30.599 so kind of play you away at some of those, making sure that 697 00:48:30.639 --> 00:48:34.199 we can ship some some new features to help folks get on Azure. Very 698 00:48:34.199 --> 00:48:37.440 cool. That also speaks to folks that want to participat in this that are 699 00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.679 frustrated with like you can write issues, you can be part of the process. 700 00:48:42.199 --> 00:48:45.079 Are you taking prs from mixed ternals? Oh? Yeah one, so 701 00:48:45.400 --> 00:48:50.039 so I'll disclaim that the CLI is written and go. So if you're not 702 00:48:50.079 --> 00:48:52.440 a Go dav, that's cool. You can write. We would love a 703 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:57.119 contribution to the CLI corp. But we also have a vs code extension which 704 00:48:57.119 --> 00:48:59.599 is written in type scripts. If you're a type scrept person you can do 705 00:48:59.639 --> 00:49:02.880 that, or you can write templates in whatever language you'd like and submit them 706 00:49:02.880 --> 00:49:07.159 to the gallery. And we would love to have new flavors of app scenario 707 00:49:07.880 --> 00:49:13.639 on our template gallery too, So there's like a and also just filing issues 708 00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:17.039 questions like helps me shape our product to make it useful for everyone too. 709 00:49:17.079 --> 00:49:22.519 So discussions issues. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I look at the 710 00:49:22.639 --> 00:49:27.440 current issue list and it's long four something. Oh yeah, of course that'll 711 00:49:27.519 --> 00:49:29.519 change by the time anybody else can go look at it. But it's a 712 00:49:29.880 --> 00:49:34.360 lot of these almost feel like check support. You know, I'm having trouble 713 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:37.360 installing it on this, Like is that actually a bug? Or is this 714 00:49:37.400 --> 00:49:39.599 a procedural problem? Like, but those are all potential learnings for you. 715 00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:44.559 It's like this is too hard and that doesn't work right, and maybe they 716 00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:47.079 do find something interesting. The bigger thing here is there's a lot of people 717 00:49:47.239 --> 00:49:52.119 clearly using this and pressing it in places you probably haven't thought of. Yeah, 718 00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:57.719 yeah, we're even thinking about stuff like like the micro service scenarios, 719 00:49:57.719 --> 00:50:00.320 like what if you don't have all of your app code in the same repo, 720 00:50:00.639 --> 00:50:04.960 or maybe you're doing kubernettes and you have ic in one repo manifested, 721 00:50:05.079 --> 00:50:07.159 another app code and another. How do we stitch that together? So like 722 00:50:07.159 --> 00:50:10.960 there's a you know, we're still WEGA, but there's still a long road 723 00:50:10.960 --> 00:50:15.480 ahead of us to support all the different flavors of apps. So if you 724 00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:21.599 have stuff that isn't supported by the CLI today, like wave the Flag, 725 00:50:21.719 --> 00:50:23.880 come come say hi, Like we're shaping the product. Yeah for sure, 726 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:29.440 And look at all these different products that they're pressing on it against Aks, 727 00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:35.920 Azure functions, Ubuntu, Like this is cool, It's it is a un 728 00:50:36.159 --> 00:50:40.320 of issues. Yeah right, All these different countries are common adges saying make 729 00:50:40.360 --> 00:50:45.639 it work from my thing. Yeah, it's an exciting problem to have, 730 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:50.440 for sure. Yeah, yeah, I think you have good problems. It's 731 00:50:50.559 --> 00:50:53.880 very exciting for sure. Well, Savannah Astrosky, thanks for being here and 732 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:58.880 thanks for telling us about this great product. And we can't wait to hear 733 00:50:58.960 --> 00:51:02.039 what's going on in next next year with this thing. Can't wait. Yeah, 734 00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:06.440 thanks for having me, super super fun conversation. Yeah, all right, 735 00:51:06.480 --> 00:51:31.159 we'll see you next time on dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is 736 00:51:31.199 --> 00:51:37.119 brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full service 737 00:51:37.199 --> 00:51:42.280 audio, video and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, 738 00:51:42.320 --> 00:51:47.280 and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit our website 739 00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:52.760 at d O t nt r ocks dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, 740 00:51:52.920 --> 00:51:58.159 mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going back to show 741 00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:01.800 number one, recorded September two thousand and two. And make sure you check 742 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:06.679 out our sponsors. They keep us in business. Now go write some code. 743 00:52:07.239 --> 00:52:20.280 See you next time. You got a tad middle band