1 00:00:01,000 --> 00:00:04,759 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with no ads? Easy? 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,400 Become a patron for just five dollars a month. You get access to a 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,199 private RSS feed where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 4 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,399 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks patron mug. Sign 5 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:24,079 up now at Patreon dot dot net rocks dot com. Hey Carlin Richard here. 6 00:00:24,399 --> 00:00:28,879 As you may have heard, NDC is back offering their incredible in person 7 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:33,320 conferences around the world, and we'd like to tell you about them. NDC 8 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:39,439 Copenhagen is happening August twenty seventh through the thirty first. Go to NDC Copenhagen 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:45,280 dot com for more information. NDC Porto is happening October sixteenth through the twentieth. 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,600 The early bird discount for DC Porto ends July twenty first. Go to 11 00:00:49,719 --> 00:00:54,960 Dcporto dot com to register and check out the full lineup of conferences at NDC 12 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,840 Conferences dot com. Hey there, this is Jeff Fritz, the Purple Blazer 13 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,840 from Microsoft, letting you in on a little secret about my friend Carl Franklin. 14 00:01:04,519 --> 00:01:07,920 You know, the guy who started dot net Rocks, the first podcast 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,879 about dot net in two thousand and two. The guy who's been teaching Blazer 16 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:19,200 on YouTube since twenty twenty, Yeah that Carl Franklin. Well, Carl's joined 17 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:23,159 up with the folks from Code in a Castle to teach a week long hands 18 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:29,040 on Blazer class at Are you ready to get this? At a castle slash 19 00:01:29,239 --> 00:01:34,280 villa in Tuscany. It's sort of a luxury vacation with Blazer learning built in. 20 00:01:36,439 --> 00:01:42,359 Carl's calling it the Blazer master Class. You'll learn Blazer from the ground 21 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,079 up, finishing the week with the ability to build and deploy Blazer applications. 22 00:01:48,239 --> 00:01:52,040 Since the training happens for only four hours in the morning over six days, 23 00:01:52,439 --> 00:01:57,079 you can bring your significant other, your partner with you and you should right 24 00:01:57,799 --> 00:02:01,400 This part of Italy is absolutely beautiful. There's so much to see and do, 25 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:07,280 and in Larion Marco from Code into Castle are organizing daily activities both at 26 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:12,520 the castle and in the area. The castle is in the Marema, a 27 00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:17,319 less touristed region of Tuscany, offering both classic Tuscan hill country as well as 28 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,319 easy access to the Etruscan Riviera, with sublime local food, wine and olive 29 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:29,080 oil around every corner. Breakfast is included. Every day there will be two 30 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,879 communal dinners at the castle book ending the experience, and most other meals and 31 00:02:34,039 --> 00:02:38,240 all activities are included. And did I mention you'll learn Blazer in person from 32 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:44,240 Carl Franklin. Listen, space is limited and for very good reason. This 33 00:02:44,319 --> 00:02:50,199 is quality training in a beautiful setting. Go to code in Acastle dot com 34 00:02:50,319 --> 00:02:57,759 slash Blazer twenty twenty three that's BLA z O R two zero two three To 35 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:02,439 take advantage of this amazing opportunity to join Carl in Tuscany for an unforgettable week 36 00:03:02,719 --> 00:03:15,599 of La dolce vita while advancing your programming skills in this important new technology. 37 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:24,759 Welcome back to dot net Rocks. This is Carl Franklin and this is Richard 38 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:30,479 Campbell, and um, what can I say? Man? We're it's beginning 39 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:37,080 to rain here and the ash from Ontario and is moving out now that's good 40 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:39,599 weather changes. You know. The first set of forest fires that really hit 41 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,120 hard. We had some of the northeast of BC and then Nova Scotia caught 42 00:03:44,159 --> 00:03:46,800 fire, which is weird. Nova Scotia normally does not burn right, I 43 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,599 know, and they couldn't had a heck of a time trying to contain it, 44 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:53,400 and it wasn't until mother nature came along and said how about some rain 45 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:57,680 that actually got things under control. But they lost some homes, lots of 46 00:03:57,719 --> 00:04:00,080 people evacuated, like it's been, it's been areas. I mean. The 47 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:04,120 saving grace for a place like Quebec is most of the fires are in the 48 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:10,240 north, which is pretty deserted. Not entirely. There are some First Nation 49 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,280 villages that were not They weren't able to save. They evaluated the people, 50 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,120 but you're talking about places that people have lived at literally for thousands of years. 51 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:24,040 Thousands of years. Yeah, yeah, and so that is pretty painful. 52 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,480 Well, if you're confused, we're actually recording this on June ninth, 53 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,040 and it's just a couple of days after the fires in the Quebec started. 54 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:35,519 But just good news that it's it's all over now. Yeah, well mostly 55 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,480 for me anyway. It's disturbing to me that forest fire season has started this 56 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:43,279 early. Yeah, you know it's gonna be I think it's gonna be a 57 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,120 tough summer. Yeah. Well, let's get started with a little thing. 58 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:57,879 We call it been or no framework roll the crazy music. Awesome, All 59 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:00,199 right, man, what do you got all right. Far from me to 60 00:05:00,519 --> 00:05:08,079 report any news story that prevents people from doing sane things like wearing seat belts 61 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:14,920 or you know, getting vaccinated or using a password manager. Pastor managers are 62 00:05:14,959 --> 00:05:17,319 good. Pastor managers are good. However, every once in a while, 63 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:23,720 one of them gets hacked. And this happened on June fifth. It was 64 00:05:23,759 --> 00:05:29,639 reported key pass k ee pass version two point five four fixes a bug that 65 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:35,720 leaked clear text master password. Oh that's not good. Here's the question, 66 00:05:35,759 --> 00:05:41,360 like why did they even have it? Like there's no reason? Yes, 67 00:05:42,639 --> 00:05:46,800 what yeah, like this this the bigger thing here is that it suddenly breaks 68 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,959 into this whole question of what were you people doing under the hood. Well, 69 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:53,480 well, here's the thing. It wasn't. It wasn't like it was 70 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:59,800 just boom done. It was it was a vulnerability where you had to do 71 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:02,360 a memory dump of the application. So you have to crash the application, 72 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:08,480 right, look through the memory dump, and then even though it's a secure 73 00:06:08,639 --> 00:06:12,199 text box, right, Yeah, when the user types in the password, 74 00:06:12,199 --> 00:06:17,839 they are leftover strings, so basically it gets everything but the beginning string. 75 00:06:17,879 --> 00:06:21,439 You know that little dot that pops up when you're typing your password, right, 76 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,199 So those are leftover strings, and the dumper allows users to recover almost 77 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,920 all of the mastered password characters apart from the first one or two. Yeah, 78 00:06:30,959 --> 00:06:33,680 so it's not so bad, all right, So you understand that, 79 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:38,279 you're like, oh, so I need direct access to your machine to have 80 00:06:38,319 --> 00:06:42,399 put code in it to be able to break that, you know. Okay, 81 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,680 Yeah, it's not so much of a of a of a you know, 82 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:49,360 we used it as clickbait on security this week. Okay. Well, 83 00:06:49,399 --> 00:06:54,279 and the other thing is like key passes, the you know Linux kind of 84 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,920 yeah, you know, from the open open source community, that's the one 85 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:01,680 that is supposed to be the greatest in a lot of respects, but tricky 86 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:06,199 to use. So uh and it still is very safe, so don't yeah, 87 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,680 yeah, let's say, and you know, the only thing worse than 88 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:15,040 using a password manager is not using not using like correct, Yes, I 89 00:07:15,519 --> 00:07:20,160 moved from one from from last pass to Bitwarden. Same here, and I'm 90 00:07:20,199 --> 00:07:24,480 happy. We haven't looked back since happy with bit Warden does a good job, 91 00:07:24,759 --> 00:07:27,160 right, all right, Well that's what I got. Who's talking to 92 00:07:27,199 --> 00:07:30,519 us today, Richard grad A comments Office Show twelve fifty five. So I've 93 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:33,879 gone back in the archives about seven years ago. Jeez. And that was 94 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,920 a show that we did with Joe Goodano when we were talking about as your 95 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:42,839 App Insights, and that's a twenty sixteen and I realized reading this, it's 96 00:07:42,879 --> 00:07:45,920 like, hey, you know, those are pretty early days. They were. 97 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:48,360 And one of the conversations that we had at the time was the fact 98 00:07:48,439 --> 00:07:57,240 that there were updates that were coming periodically, that we're fairly disruptive to developers, 99 00:07:57,319 --> 00:08:00,519 like the work that you were doing and implementations you done and be shifted 100 00:08:00,519 --> 00:08:03,480 around. And so skinnoct actually had this comment related to another comment, a 101 00:08:03,519 --> 00:08:07,639 comment from Jan Tarlemaine from show twelve to thirty nine, which is only a 102 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:15,279 few shows before, about cloud service updates making life difficult for developers, and 103 00:08:15,279 --> 00:08:18,560 he'd just seen a plural sight course from John Seville. I remember John on 104 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:20,959 Sequel as You're and he mentioned some of the deprecated features. This is probably 105 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:24,279 much rare, but potentially a much worse problem than updates. It seems to 106 00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:31,800 me that the classic challenge here is managing benefits to companies based on features. 107 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,960 But otherwise, you guys, keep up the good work. We really like 108 00:08:35,399 --> 00:08:41,600 everything here and it run as radio. Thank you and we'll keep working on 109 00:08:41,639 --> 00:08:46,320 the problem. And I just I've forgotten that, like seven years ago, 110 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,000 we were dealing with a lot of breaking changes. You know, Asure was 111 00:08:52,039 --> 00:08:56,600 relatively young, and they were learning more as a number of customers grew about 112 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,799 how things should be architected. And it was an ongoing topic for us five 113 00:09:00,879 --> 00:09:03,159 hundred episodes ago. If we don't talk about that anymore, now we don't. 114 00:09:03,399 --> 00:09:07,440 It's true, great, Really, it's not a thing. I think 115 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,440 we're cred of hitting a maturity point where we can kind of count on the 116 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,879 product to give us pretty clear paths forwards. It still happens once in a 117 00:09:13,919 --> 00:09:18,080 while, but they also give you lots of warning to migrade and give you 118 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:20,879 good migration paths. Yeah, so seekonette. Thank you so much for your 119 00:09:20,879 --> 00:09:22,159 comment and a copy of music. Cobuy is on its way to un If 120 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:24,759 you'd like a copy of music, go buy right a comment on the website 121 00:09:24,759 --> 00:09:28,080 at dot net rocks dot com or on the facebooks publish every show there, 122 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,480 and if you comment there and everyady on the show, we'll send you a 123 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,120 copy of music. Go buy, and you can follow us on Twitter if 124 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,240 you want to. We've been there a long time. But the real fun 125 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:41,200 stuff's happening on mass done. I met Carl Franklin at tech Hub dot social, 126 00:09:41,399 --> 00:09:46,000 and I'm rich Campbell at Massa dot dot social. Send us a tout 127 00:09:46,039 --> 00:09:50,159 Rudy too, Rich, Rudy, tuity, fresh and fruity, all right, 128 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,960 right, something like that, All right to let me bring on our 129 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:01,240 guests today. Savannah Trotsky is a senior product manager at Microsoft focused on Azure 130 00:10:01,279 --> 00:10:05,679 Cloud native developer tools and experience. She's the product lead for the open source 131 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,960 Azure Developer CLI, formerly known as azd a ZYD. Previously, she was 132 00:10:13,039 --> 00:10:16,799 the proud manager for the Pilance Language Server, which powers the editing experience in 133 00:10:16,879 --> 00:10:22,879 visual Studio, code code Spaces, visual Studio, and more. She's passionate 134 00:10:22,879 --> 00:10:26,960 about Python, open source software, debops, and developer experience. Welcome to 135 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:31,879 the show, Savannah, Hello, thanks for having me. Richard named Carl. 136 00:10:31,159 --> 00:10:35,320 Nice to meet both of you as well. Yeah, definitely excited to 137 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,919 have you on. And CLI is something that I used to use, you 138 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,120 know, PowerShell, and then it's like built right into the portal. Now 139 00:10:41,159 --> 00:10:45,279 you can just like click up and it's been there for a while. I 140 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,840 realize that you just click a button and poof CLI. I love that. 141 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:54,679 Yeah, there's like a couple of different CLIs happening on Azure these days, 142 00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:58,559 like the like Azure Cli you said, PowerShell, cloud Shell stuff, and 143 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:03,360 now the Azure Developer Cli. So alright, I'm better define the differences here 144 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,080 because that's a lot of that's a lot of CLIs, I think. So 145 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,360 yeah, I think with the Azure Developer Cli being a new product, I 146 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,240 think that is sort of a thing that we have to clarify a little bit. 147 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:20,600 So the Azure Developer CLI, the thing that I work on, is 148 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:28,159 a higher level application developer friendly CLI. So instead of you interacting with atomic 149 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:33,480 Azure resources like a particular service and passing in a bunch of parameters and flags 150 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:39,039 and configurations in an imperative way in the terminal, the Azure Developer Cli thinks 151 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,919 more about like the total application scope, so like all of the Azure resources 152 00:11:43,919 --> 00:11:46,840 and how they kind of fit together. And so in the command line we 153 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:54,039 have our commands are more like initialized, provision, deploy up down, and 154 00:11:54,120 --> 00:12:00,159 we defer kind of that complexity to infrastructure is code more declarative model. So 155 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,080 that's kind of like the difference I guess um to two tools in the same 156 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,039 tool belt, different different jobs to be done, right, right, So 157 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:13,919 is that sort of in the UM the Palumi space or the other the I'm 158 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,559 saying terraform. Yeah, yeah, So we support so um the Asure Developer 159 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,279 CLI uses the infrastructure is code in the form of these application templates, and 160 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:30,120 today we support BICEP, which is the Microsoft flavor of infrastruct and Terraform. 161 00:12:30,919 --> 00:12:35,039 Our top most upboted issue on our GitHub repoot is also to support Pollumi. 162 00:12:35,919 --> 00:12:39,320 The people want it. That's great. That's the first one I really heard 163 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:43,799 about. But they've all been around for a while, all right. So 164 00:12:43,159 --> 00:12:46,559 when you have these high level commands, obviously there's a lot of stuff behind 165 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:52,320 them. So how you're assuming that you're connecting to your what your resource group 166 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:58,480 or something like that first, that is your overarching context for for this CLI? 167 00:12:58,759 --> 00:13:03,879 How does that work? So it's actually like a level but like higher 168 00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:09,000 level than that, so like the whole like the original reason the Azure Developer 169 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:15,039 CLI was created was really to like support application developers who don't necessarily have expertise 170 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,639 on Azure get their apps on Azure and so a lot of those folks don't 171 00:13:18,639 --> 00:13:22,399 necessarily know what resources they need for their application. They might be able to 172 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:26,960 identify like their local app stack and the technologies they're using to build their prototype, 173 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,320 but they don't necessarily know I want Azure Container apps or Azure app service 174 00:13:31,399 --> 00:13:33,960 with key vaults and all of that good stuff. And so the idea with 175 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:39,879 AZD is that you go and you find an application template, which you can 176 00:13:39,879 --> 00:13:43,440 find on gethub. We have Microsoft authored ones that our team and other teams 177 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:48,120 of Microsoft have authored. There also community created templates. Find one that maps 178 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:54,159 to your local app stack, and then you basically swap out this the proof 179 00:13:54,159 --> 00:13:58,000 of concept source code that's in there and piggyback off of the infrastructure as code 180 00:13:58,039 --> 00:14:01,799 assets on daisi er so you don't have to fuss with kind of the complexity 181 00:14:01,799 --> 00:14:05,559 of Azure. I mean, step one is really get your app in the 182 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:09,320 cloud right, and then as time goes on and as you have, you 183 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,799 know, problems you want to sort out, Like maybe now your application serves 184 00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:16,559 a million users, you might want to change some of the configurations and the 185 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:22,399 skews and that kind of stuff to support a more high highly trafficked app or 186 00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:26,320 a website. And you can do that, but incrementally by kind of fine 187 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,000 tuning the infrastructure's code with a specific problem in mind, instead of having to 188 00:14:30,039 --> 00:14:33,600 deal with all of the complexity of Azure right right from the get go. 189 00:14:33,919 --> 00:14:37,519 Yeah, I mean me as a as a developer that is familiar with provisioning 190 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:43,039 Azure resources. It sounds a little scary to me because if I just say 191 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:48,080 something like deploy, is it going to create resources that I'm now paying for 192 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,039 that I don't know what I'm paying for? Is it going to generate those 193 00:14:52,039 --> 00:14:56,279 things for me? Or is it assume that those things exist before I get 194 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,559 to deploy? So all of those resources are defined in the infrastructure as code 195 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,000 and so there's nothing like magical happening here. We're just kind of like, 196 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:09,559 instead of that imperative like I'm touching an individual Azure resource or walking through the 197 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,840 Azure portal, we have this infrastructure as code that lives in the same application 198 00:15:13,879 --> 00:15:16,519 scope as the developers source code. So you can go in there understand what's 199 00:15:16,559 --> 00:15:20,679 happening, but the gestures that you need to use day to day are just 200 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,360 like a lot easier to remember. Got it? That makes sense? Yeah, 201 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,799 it feels like this is a place to hide complexity, so you can 202 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,720 just go when you're ready to go and all of that. You only need 203 00:15:28,759 --> 00:15:31,320 to work all this stuff out once. Yeah, I think I kind of 204 00:15:31,519 --> 00:15:35,720 talk about in terms of deferring the complexity, you know, because it's there, 205 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,120 like the complexity of the cloud is still there, and there's like learning 206 00:15:39,159 --> 00:15:43,879 to be done, right, but it's not like you're overwhelmed right from the 207 00:15:43,919 --> 00:15:46,919 get go, and like you can focus on the problems you want to focus 208 00:15:46,919 --> 00:15:48,519 on when you want to focus on them, right. I mean, we 209 00:15:48,639 --> 00:15:52,279 all we know we should be storing our secrets in key valls. The question 210 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,799 is do you have to have all that set up first before you can do 211 00:15:54,840 --> 00:16:00,639 a deploy or these there workarounds here that then later I can put key vault 212 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:06,759 in. Yeah, so in like the infrastructure's code, the key vault would 213 00:16:06,799 --> 00:16:10,159 be defined there along with like monitoring infrastructure kind of all the stuff that you 214 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:15,039 would need. And then today it's a pretty manual process to go in and 215 00:16:15,039 --> 00:16:18,120 tweak the the iic the infrastructure is code to add a key vault or add 216 00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,480 a database later. But we are working on features maybe in the next six 217 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,919 months to a year from now, that would allow someone to inject infrastructure's code 218 00:16:26,919 --> 00:16:30,440 into their project. One very important question. It's not a YAML file, 219 00:16:30,559 --> 00:16:34,919 is it. So we have an azure dot YAML, which is a very 220 00:16:36,279 --> 00:16:41,559 yeah, yet another yam file, right, we have like a very simple 221 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:47,799 short YAML file we use to tell the developer CLI like it'll be like what 222 00:16:47,879 --> 00:16:51,080 services do you? I mean front end, back end. It has the 223 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:55,039 language, the target hosts, so if you're using app service, and a 224 00:16:55,159 --> 00:16:57,240 path toward the source code lives and that's like basically all that really needs to 225 00:16:57,279 --> 00:17:02,720 live in there. But the configuration isn't yammo, right, No, it's 226 00:17:02,759 --> 00:17:08,240 bi separate terraform okay, right good and eventually polluted and someday pollumi probably. 227 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:12,400 So I'm literally grabbing links as fast as I can go because you know, 228 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:17,799 I found the Azure yamal for for AZD, like all of these are the 229 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,599 little tidbits are like okay, I get this, I need that piece in 230 00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:26,119 this piece, Like it's still assembling the bits to make AZD behave for us. 231 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:29,599 Yeah. Yeah, the like the Azure yamal I kind of consider to 232 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,160 be like the entry point for you telling a ZD like what it is you're 233 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:34,920 trying to do, and like where your quote code lives, and like how 234 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,799 it can stitch together the app and then the infra diirectory contains all of you 235 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,160 your you know, the Azure specific infrastructure is code stuff and pull stuff from 236 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:45,920 there and stitch it all together for you. Yeah, it's still a bunch 237 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:51,519 of bits, there's no two ways about it. I did find the GitHub 238 00:17:51,559 --> 00:17:56,240 repository for awesome AZD because and there's a ton of stuff here. Holy Macaroni's. 239 00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:00,559 Yeah, I like the whole awesome idea. There's a whole bunch of 240 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,200 awesome collections. Yeah. I have to give a like a shout out to 241 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:07,759 one of the cloud developer advocates. I work with Nitya who who came up 242 00:18:07,799 --> 00:18:11,039 with the idea for calling it awesome. AZDM built the initial prototype of that 243 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:15,960 website, which like is really like a curated template gallery for various application stacks 244 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:22,480 as your technologies, trying to make it more discoverable for folks to find the 245 00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:26,680 right recipe right well and not roll your own right. Look, here's here's 246 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:34,480 a solution for implementing the for Kubernetes right for as your front door. It's 247 00:18:34,519 --> 00:18:40,599 like it's been solved. It almost reminds me of the PowerShell world where it's 248 00:18:40,599 --> 00:18:42,519 like listen, somebody's order written a chunk of PowerShell to do this, just 249 00:18:42,559 --> 00:18:45,680 go get it from the gallery, like don't write your own Yeah, okay, 250 00:18:45,839 --> 00:18:51,000 to learn from it adapted And this feels very much the same sort of 251 00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:55,440 thing of a lot of folks that put a lot of energy into putting all 252 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:57,920 of these templates together for you in advance that you can pick them up and 253 00:18:59,319 --> 00:19:03,200 assemble. It is something that's pretty comprehensive. Yeah, it's also been pretty 254 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:06,680 cool like in the you know, the current state of the world with all 255 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,559 the AI stuff coming out, there's like AI templates in there too, so 256 00:19:10,599 --> 00:19:14,039 like things like build your own chat GPT plug in and hosted on Azure, 257 00:19:14,319 --> 00:19:18,559 or build your own chat GPT like trained on your enterprise data so that you 258 00:19:18,599 --> 00:19:23,079 can have people use natural language to ask questions about their healthcare plan, you 259 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,319 know. So it's it's pretty cool to see like the diversity of applications being 260 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:30,799 built in there too. Yeah, look at them all. Yeah, this 261 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,839 is not just the plumbing for deploying an app service. Yeah, there's a 262 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:37,440 lot of different pieces here and a lot of different directions you go in. 263 00:19:37,559 --> 00:19:41,680 So I mean often when we say go in a ZT you know, that's 264 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:44,440 a lot of go. Yeah, all right, what else do we need 265 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,440 to know? I know by the azure animal schema, and I'm glad to 266 00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:52,920 know that it's as much of the animal as I'm gonna need only enough. 267 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:56,960 Yeah, but and then it sounds like biceps the first class citizen, Like 268 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,720 that's probably my next step is to go spend some time with bicep. Yeah, 269 00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:04,559 bicep is sort of the like what we've seen a lot of folks adopting 270 00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:11,400 mud right now. Bicep is kind of um it's it's in like our support 271 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,599 for bicep is in like a stable quote unquote stable state. Terraform is a 272 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,599 bit earlier on. It's it's an alpha right now behind a feature flag because 273 00:20:18,599 --> 00:20:23,200 we wanted to com We recently introduced these alpha, beta, and stable kind 274 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,519 of feature stages for each feature as we rolled them out to communicate to folks 275 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:30,319 like, maybe you don't want to use this in a production scenario today because 276 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:34,160 like the actual user experience of using this feature might change because we're like getting 277 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:40,480 feedback, right so there, we're hoping to get Terraform also that stable state 278 00:20:40,559 --> 00:20:44,640 kind of with more use and more stress testing across applications and stuff. Funny 279 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,960 that ties right back to Sea connects comment about changes in Azure and heavy services 280 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,079 move from under view. Maybe maybe the other thing has happened in seven years 281 00:20:52,160 --> 00:20:56,480 is that Microsoft themselves has gotten very disciplined about Hey, when we say stable, 282 00:20:56,519 --> 00:20:57,880 we mean stable, and if you implement this you can expect it to 283 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:03,160 keep working for atty pain Leslie. But when we say beta or you know, 284 00:21:03,279 --> 00:21:07,000 experimental, you should expect this to shift from under you. And so 285 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,920 you've at least got fair warning that you might be surprised when the newer version 286 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,160 comes along. Yeah, I mean, I think trying to avoid situations where 287 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,880 people have unpleasant surprises and their stuff is broken, especially because you can run 288 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,000 a CD and CI pipelines as well, like making sure like there's a good 289 00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:29,400 contract there and that people can rely on it for business critical scenarios without you 290 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:33,359 know, unpleasant stuff. Well it's this, you say, the main thing, 291 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:36,880 which is the surprise break? Right? Like that's the one where right, 292 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,200 I just I just pushed code, you know, I just accepted a 293 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,640 pull request and now I have a string of errors and everybody's like, what 294 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,960 just happened? And it's got nothing you do with my pr it's got everything 295 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,599 to do with some service change somewhere in the pipeline and we're exploding now and 296 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,319 now you have to dismantle all that and check bit by bit to figure out, 297 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:02,640 like what's the broken bid. Yeah, and that itself is sort of 298 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:06,519 like antithetical to azd's value prop, right, But like we want to keep 299 00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:11,319 people focused on the business critical scenarios that they're trying to go after. And 300 00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:14,920 so if we're like, you know, causing breaking changes for folks, that 301 00:22:15,079 --> 00:22:18,680 is like derailing them from their path from A to B, that's that's bad. 302 00:22:18,799 --> 00:22:21,000 Right. So yeah, it's like, hey, you know, I 303 00:22:21,039 --> 00:22:26,599 had work to do. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, I 304 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,839 appreciate that. And it also speaks to it's up to us to be smart 305 00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:34,160 about reading these things and knowing I only want the stable stuff put in. 306 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:38,319 Maybe it's a few fewer futures and I really really wanted, but I'm going 307 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:42,440 to be surprised far less often if I stick with the stable set and then 308 00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:47,480 only experimental. And I absolutely have to because I need that feature desperately. 309 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:52,079 Yeah, we have a couple of things in alpha state right now, terror 310 00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,319 Form, our support for Azure Spring apps. And also we recently added resource 311 00:22:56,319 --> 00:23:00,839 groups scope to deployments. Previously we only supported such ryption scope, but we 312 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,319 wanted to also give people some more flexibility and their infrastructure as code. So 313 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:08,640 yeah, that's a cool idea resource scoping, just because you know, as 314 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:12,440 your environments are getting massive, so me being able to say, having to 315 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:15,119 create a resource group for all of these things, and that's where you play. 316 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,880 Yeah, and we allow you now to like with that feature, like 317 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:22,640 bring an existing resource group to a ZED right right. Previously we always support 318 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,200 the case where we were creating resource groups for the user and then putting all 319 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,960 their resources in there, but we want to enable scenarios where people might want 320 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:36,440 to like adopt AZD beyond, just like true day zero scenarios. So right, 321 00:23:36,519 --> 00:23:38,559 yeah, yeah, and there in lies the problem with these kinds of 322 00:23:38,559 --> 00:23:41,680 tools, like taking an existing app and getting it to work through this is 323 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,759 not a trivial problem. Yeah, yeah, for sure. So I'm reading 324 00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:53,079 the I'm scanning the documentation here and there's some information about customizing workflows using command 325 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:59,000 and event hooks and that that really piqued my interest because you know, the 326 00:23:59,079 --> 00:24:02,240 more we can hook into these things, that you know, more we can 327 00:24:02,279 --> 00:24:03,720 take advantage of them. I think, how does that work? Yeah, 328 00:24:03,759 --> 00:24:07,880 so we have support for pre impost command, and like kind of service life 329 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,200 cycle hooks, so things like oh, you want to run a script before 330 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,759 your provision or after provision or before deploy or after deploy, like, we 331 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:18,279 give you kind of that flexibility. I think the reality is was when you're 332 00:24:18,319 --> 00:24:22,160 building a tool for all developers, you kind of have to make it sort 333 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,839 of malleable, right because everyone's got their own workflow or scripts they want to 334 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,279 run ahead of a deployment. So we tried to kind of give that flexibility 335 00:24:32,279 --> 00:24:36,000 through the through the hook support. Yeah, very cool. Nice. Another 336 00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:42,160 thing I see is make your project a ZED compatible. So a project isn't 337 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,000 compatible with a z D right out of the box. What does that mean 338 00:24:45,279 --> 00:24:52,480 so today? Yeah, so today there is some overhead and kind of rolling 339 00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:56,279 your own AZD combatible projects, so that there's kind of two paths. One 340 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:02,319 is finding a template and building off of some one's existing work and infrastructure's code, 341 00:25:02,559 --> 00:25:04,799 swapping out that source code for your own, modifying it, and then 342 00:25:04,839 --> 00:25:08,519 AZD upping it, which will package, provision and deploy the Apple Azure. 343 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,279 Then there's like the option of I actually don't want to start from a template. 344 00:25:14,319 --> 00:25:17,279 I want to start from my own I know how to write infrastructure is 345 00:25:17,319 --> 00:25:21,559 code. I need to write infrastructure's code. I need to make like add 346 00:25:21,559 --> 00:25:25,480 an Azure amble to the project and then azd app it. So there's like 347 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,680 there is some work there. We are working on some features that would allow 348 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,240 a developer to not have to do either of those things, where we would 349 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:37,200 maybe infer kind of what the local app stack is and then generate some infrastructure 350 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,799 as code for them. We started some early prototyping on that, but yeah, 351 00:25:41,799 --> 00:25:45,359 that's definitely still one of the things that I'd like to get us past, 352 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,599 because that's it's not sometimes not trivial, right, Yeah, I mean 353 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,359 we've often run into this issue where it's like I want you to parse my 354 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,440 existing application to make a template for me, essentially like work with what i've 355 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,480 got. Yeah, but that's not a simple problem. People do crazy things. 356 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,440 Who knows what the code the infrastructure looks like? But yeah, I 357 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,119 guess that you know today right now, the challenge with an existing brownfield app 358 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,640 is to go thumb through the templates and say, like, what do I 359 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,079 need? Yeah, it's close to fit these things together, yeah, yeah, 360 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:19,880 and then figure out the rough spots. Yeah, and there are like 361 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:26,039 some templates that are more targeted at the enterprise scenarios. Like there's a reliable 362 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,799 dot net web app one which I think is like a true twelve factor app, 363 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,119 and we have like some JavaScript ones. There was one like that shows 364 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:37,680 like a full real estate website with like a payment system and a blog and 365 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:41,279 like a listing and it's wow. Yeah that came out at Builds a couple 366 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,680 of weeks ago, and definitely seeing some people like really building large proof of 367 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:52,240 like kind of sample architectures, and also some like pretty basic stuff too, 368 00:26:52,279 --> 00:26:53,319 so kind of across the board. But yeah, you're right, like I 369 00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:57,920 think, especially if you've got like a large enterprise brownfield application, like it's 370 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,319 it's still a ask, right, Yeah, no question. I mean, 371 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,400 and I appreciate someone going to the trouble to build that sort of comprehensive wide 372 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,839 app model as a template. Not that I'll probably use it directly, but 373 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:12,920 it's a great starting point for me to look at it and go, now, 374 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,960 how would I build this for my app with each of these pieces sort 375 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,440 of knowing how to break them down into the significant segments and what each of 376 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:25,519 them would look like. But yeah, here and this is great when you're 377 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:27,839 starting something new, to just go all right, we've made We've got a 378 00:27:27,839 --> 00:27:30,319 whiteboard scenario here. We kind of know what we want to go. I 379 00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:34,240 think this templates closest let's go and you a z D from the very beginning. 380 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,160 Yeah, like retrofitting a ZD in new existing project just going to be 381 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,599 more challenging. Yeah, and it like not in not between now and the 382 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,880 end of this year, but probably early next year, we'll be focusing kind 383 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,319 of more on that, like what I kind of call compose ability, right, 384 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,200 or like maybe I start out with a basic app, but then later 385 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,160 I decide I need to add more components to it, or you know, 386 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,960 swap out my database, or like how do we enable people to do that? 387 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,000 Because that's common, right, Like when you later decide or discover that 388 00:28:03,039 --> 00:28:06,319 there's some problem that you need to add infrastructure like that is something that comes 389 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:08,400 up pretty often. But yeah, yeah, starting with the kind of onboarding 390 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,559 scenarios first and then kind of the project to grow up stories as well. 391 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:18,079 Absolutely, and Savana, I'm gonna interrupt for one moment this very important message 392 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:25,319 and we're back it's done at Rocks. I'm Richard Campbell, that's Carl Franklin 393 00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:30,240 Yo. Talking to our friend Savannah from Microsoft a bit about AZD which is 394 00:28:30,279 --> 00:28:34,920 the Azure Developer CLI, not the PowerShell CLI, not the as Your CLI. 395 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:40,559 They're different, but very much focused on the on the dev challenge, 396 00:28:40,759 --> 00:28:42,640 and we right before the break we were talking a bit about like, I'm 397 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,720 changing the infrastructure for my app, Like, what's this going to look like? 398 00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,200 I can't imagine. In fact, I've been talking to a company's dealing 399 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,640 with this where the happily using as your sequel. Now there's parts of the 400 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,799 app that are that are widely distributed, more performance sensitive, and you're like, 401 00:28:56,839 --> 00:29:00,160 hey, we're talking about using Cosmos for part of this, so I 402 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:04,519 would imagine you'd bring in Cosmo the Cosmos template just to make it part of 403 00:29:04,519 --> 00:29:07,960 the deploy And you've really got the You're not you're not going to hang up 404 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,279 as your sequel. That's not going away, but we're moving pieces of the 405 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:18,039 workload over to Cosmos dB and having those deploys run as well, and then 406 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,759 making some connectors and things to synchronize data eventually, but I need that performance 407 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:25,880 on the front end. So I've got this platform that'll do it for me, 408 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:27,519 but I got to add it into the equation. Am I thinking the 409 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:33,039 right way? Yeah? I mean that that's the scenario we like, eventually 410 00:29:33,079 --> 00:29:37,440 we do want to support UM, But like, I think the tricky part 411 00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,200 is there, Like what is the developer experience of like adding or modifying your 412 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,119 infrastructure as code or like actually updating it, right, Because like the thing 413 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:51,039 is, like a lot of application developers don't necessarily care about infrastructure as code 414 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:55,400 if they're uninitiated, right, they care about the flexibility and deployments. They 415 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,640 care about, you know, being able to like find two and stuff, 416 00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:02,359 but that infrastructure is own piece, especially if they don't understand the value prop 417 00:30:02,359 --> 00:30:06,200 of infrastructure as code. It's really just like a means to an end for 418 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:10,000 them. So like we're trying to like figure out the right gestures to expose 419 00:30:10,079 --> 00:30:11,799 that in right, it's part of my fast deploy process, right, It's 420 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,200 that I don't want to think about deployment. So I have all of the 421 00:30:15,359 --> 00:30:21,480 I learned enough I ac at the time to get the pipeline working, and 422 00:30:21,519 --> 00:30:23,799 then it all fell out of my head because now I've got to work on 423 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,559 my code and so each time I go back to make changes to that for 424 00:30:29,599 --> 00:30:33,480 whatever reason, it's like starting over. Yeah, you know, I don't. 425 00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:34,839 I don't think we do. Most of us do with this, and 426 00:30:36,079 --> 00:30:40,240 often enough to actually retain it. It's like red Jax in a way, 427 00:30:40,279 --> 00:30:44,359 like you can't hold that stuff in your head. I've never learned redj X. 428 00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,839 It's just something I go into a validator every single time, right, 429 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,880 absolutely, And I feel the same way about you know. I know there's 430 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:55,440 folks out there that work on this stuff all the time because they're they are 431 00:30:55,519 --> 00:31:00,119 the specialist for their organization and they're taken care of a dozen projects. But 432 00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:04,440 that's not me. All right. I've got my projects, and I'm partly 433 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,440 responsible for some of the IAC stuff. I'm also talking to maybe subsistemins in 434 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,599 it, and so I'm kind of picking it up from scratch every time. 435 00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,160 Yeah, and so you know, everything you can do to make that easier 436 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,799 for me, to sort of guide me down the path. That's pretty compelling, 437 00:31:19,799 --> 00:31:25,119 certainly for the initial builds. But this, you know, it's adding 438 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:27,079 weight to changing infrastructure. Oh, if we're going to change the infratructure, 439 00:31:27,119 --> 00:31:30,759 that also means you have to change the pipeline, Like what does that look 440 00:31:30,799 --> 00:31:33,559 like? What do we got to do? Yeah, And kind of like 441 00:31:33,599 --> 00:31:37,039 another feature that we're working on in the next couple months is this like what 442 00:31:37,119 --> 00:31:41,160 we are calling like an application scaffolding wizard, So that would be like I 443 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:47,240 know actually things about ashore, I know what services I want. Can azyd 444 00:31:47,319 --> 00:31:48,759 allow me to walk through a wizard and say, I want key vall, 445 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,759 I want container apps, I want this thing and just spit out infrastructure as 446 00:31:53,799 --> 00:31:57,799 code modules with smart defaults that I can go in and tweak. So that 447 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:02,200 that's kind of like horrific or like related to this effort that my team is 448 00:32:02,279 --> 00:32:06,559 working on for our templates that we've authored, which is like actually coming up 449 00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:09,640 with a set of BICEP modules that use those smart defaults or like are like 450 00:32:10,079 --> 00:32:14,079 we think are a good starting point and we'll be working to get those into 451 00:32:14,119 --> 00:32:16,160 the BICEP registry so that folks can have a good foundation to build on. 452 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,759 But like to your point, a lot of the time it's like if you 453 00:32:20,799 --> 00:32:23,400 don't write it, i AC all the time you're back in Microsoft Docs trying 454 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,640 to lowing BICEP or look at terror form right, and then you need to 455 00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,480 figure out what are the supported keys and all the values and configurations for each 456 00:32:31,519 --> 00:32:36,160 particular service, and like that's I mean, some people are experts in it, 457 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,440 but it's definitely something that folks have to continue to revisit API. Oh 458 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:43,160 no, I've added comments to my own I a c that says, hey, 459 00:32:43,279 --> 00:32:45,359 dummy, this is like the fifth time you've been here, you're going 460 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,880 to make these mistakes. Do this and this, so you know, way 461 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,240 you you have a mandate to keep it high level because otherwise you're creeping towards 462 00:32:53,279 --> 00:32:58,599 just being another portal, right with all the wizards and go to fill out 463 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:00,720 this form first and then this form in the net form. It's and there's 464 00:33:00,759 --> 00:33:04,279 nothing wrong with a portal. Yeah, I love I use it all the 465 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,920 time. Yeah, And there's some efforts like kind of a sister team to 466 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:13,200 my team. Is this new Azure app spaces Portal that came out at build, 467 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:17,839 which is a more developer friendly portal blade and like so like there are 468 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,720 like there's nothing wrong with portal or CLI. I think when we talk about 469 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:24,599 why would someone come and use one or the other, it's more just like 470 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,599 some people just have a preference for it, right, Yeah, your style, 471 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,119 Yeah, yeah, yeah, or sometimes there's things you like, there's 472 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:35,480 certain tasks that ares not well suited to CLI, like monitoring dashboards like I'm 473 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,599 not going to go and like ship like anything that uses a lot of imagery 474 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,440 is like best suited to a portal for sure too. So you know what 475 00:33:42,559 --> 00:33:45,960 else too that the CLI generally doesn't change too much, whereas the portal. 476 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:50,880 You know, you could learn how to do a task one month and come 477 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,720 back the next month and the everything's been redefined and redone and everything else. 478 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:58,119 So yeah, I run into that problem because I document a lot of this 479 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,279 stuff for a YouTube show, and I get people saying, hey, you 480 00:34:00,279 --> 00:34:05,920 know the portal in your video doesn't look like the portal now, yeah, 481 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,719 where is this? Where is that things get moved around? That's that's sort 482 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:13,719 of reality. But I'm feeling really prescient for my comment at the beginning of 483 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,920 the show change right, It's like there is still pieces that are changing. 484 00:34:17,599 --> 00:34:21,440 It's not like they're taking anything away. It's just like I don't know where 485 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,400 to look now. And in some way, the CLI solves that problem because 486 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,840 it's done the look at it's the script. It's just when the script breaks, 487 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,039 Now what you know, how do you how do you debug it? 488 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:35,760 How do you you trace it down? It's this is where I think these 489 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,519 things get challenging, because it's still very much the same old how far did 490 00:34:38,519 --> 00:34:43,360 it get? You know? How am I spinning up messages to show where 491 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,960 it fails? Like those kinds of things. We're still doing pretty ridomentary debugging 492 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:53,400 when it comes to uh BICEP and I guess you know, act executing on 493 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,039 top of it. Yeah, I mean, I think that's definitely an area 494 00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,559 that still needs some some polish. Something that we want to like work on 495 00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:04,920 in the next couple months as well, is trying to like when we like 496 00:35:05,119 --> 00:35:09,360 the errors that sometimes you see coming from Azure are not very descriptive or or 497 00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:13,440 actionable, right, and then you're like, you know, off googling, 498 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,639 and so like, how how can we help folks course correct and like get 499 00:35:16,639 --> 00:35:20,239 back on track, or like, as are there docs that we should be 500 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,599 suggesting people too so they don't have to go and do the Google searching or 501 00:35:22,599 --> 00:35:25,599 whatever, so or being searching if that's your flavor of search. But like, 502 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,960 you know, um, I think that that is a good point and 503 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,800 definitely something that we have work to do with. Yeah, and it's not 504 00:35:34,039 --> 00:35:37,239 just you, like that's a huge array of stuff. Like, Yeah, 505 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,199 the problem is that once you know what the problem is, the message makes 506 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:45,280 total sense. Yeah, but often it is not. Other than saying we 507 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:49,000 are broken, it doesn't say anything to you at the beginning when you when 508 00:35:49,039 --> 00:35:52,320 you don't know what it is. Yeah, for sure, I didn't get 509 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,000 a chance to spend to really look at asure app spaces steering builds just because 510 00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:00,440 there was a lot going on. But it is interesting to think in terms 511 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:06,360 of more and more we're going to have our own corner of Azure for doing 512 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:12,039 development that then ties into the larger app Azure for deployment. I just wonder 513 00:36:12,159 --> 00:36:14,559 what impact that's going to have for a ZD, Like does that make easy 514 00:36:14,639 --> 00:36:22,159 these life easier to just deploy into an app space rather than the overall infrastructure. 515 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:25,320 I mean I think that the So the thing that like I'm most interested 516 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,679 in, right is, like if we're using a z D as this like 517 00:36:29,039 --> 00:36:34,320 quote unquote more developer friendly way of approaching Azure, I'd love for that same 518 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:38,800 paradigm to like carry into the portal when a developer inevitably ends up there, 519 00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:42,840 right, Because even if we keep them in the CLI while they're doing their 520 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,480 development, they're going to end up looking at the portal at some point, 521 00:36:45,679 --> 00:36:49,079 right, Yeah, And so like one of the things that like I'm focused 522 00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:53,079 on is like can we make the paradigm feel natural and good regardless of where 523 00:36:53,079 --> 00:36:57,000 you end up. And then also like we have integrations and editors. We 524 00:36:57,039 --> 00:37:00,679 have a vs code extension we haven't experienced in visual studio, Like how can 525 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,880 we tie that that thread across all of those different clients? Yeah, yeah, 526 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,760 that's and it's appealing to different audiences too, because certainly we get email 527 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,559 from folks. It's like I live in studio and that's all I live in 528 00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:15,440 and I don't care about the rest of the stuff. Give me the button 529 00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:20,639 to click on. Yeah, and it's and a doct dialogue on the right 530 00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:23,760 side that tells me what happened and I am content. Yeah, nothing wrong 531 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,519 with that either. Yeah, yeah, I guess. I mean why upside 532 00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:30,639 to a CD is you don't have to be a dotnet deloper to be using 533 00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:34,760 this, Like this is any kind of developer that's going too is going to 534 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,800 appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah, we currently support dot net and or C 535 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:45,199 sharp, F sharp whatever. And then also Python JavaScript or type script and 536 00:37:45,599 --> 00:37:50,199 Java. See there's if you go to that template website, you'll see templates 537 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,440 across combinations of all of those. It was adjust the languages that then you've 538 00:37:53,559 --> 00:37:58,239 got support for apps services, container apps, static web apps, function apps, 539 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:02,159 Kuberneti services, and there must be more than that by now, and 540 00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:07,320 also Azure Spring apps for for Java devs as well. So like we target 541 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:13,000 all kind of the major compute targets for Azure nice, and that means all 542 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,079 different development tools in front of all of that. Like, this is part 543 00:38:15,119 --> 00:38:19,719 of the challenge for us that you now have a pivot point between how I 544 00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:23,760 construct software and then at the point of which I want to deploy it can 545 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:28,639 step into AZD and deploy into Azure with that. Yeah, I think that's 546 00:38:28,679 --> 00:38:32,840 sort of like the beauty and also the complexity of working on a tool for 547 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:37,760 all developers, right, is that each one of those types, Like even 548 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,199 if you just looked at Python, they're like so many different flavors of Python, 549 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,760 right, and then if you look at all the languages and you add 550 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:49,119 Kubernetes, you add containers, you add micro service architecture, there's a lot 551 00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,119 of different workflows and so like thinking through things like how do we I don't 552 00:38:52,119 --> 00:38:54,920 want to like build a tool that just wraps all of those tools, Like 553 00:38:54,960 --> 00:39:00,519 how do we play nicely in that developer's ecosystem, their toolchain, whatever they're 554 00:39:00,639 --> 00:39:05,639 using. Right, that's something that is a very fun problem to sometimes think 555 00:39:05,679 --> 00:39:07,719 about. Oh for sure, Yeah, without being prescriptive. You want to 556 00:39:08,119 --> 00:39:10,320 you want to embrace what they're doing, but at the same time, you 557 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:14,519 don't want to make it too complex that it forces them away. Yeah, 558 00:39:14,519 --> 00:39:17,599 and also enforce like best practices type stuff like meet people where they're at, 559 00:39:17,599 --> 00:39:22,719 but also sometimes try and nudge them towards the right thing, like don't hard 560 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:25,320 code your seek are using AI in any of this, looking at what they're 561 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:30,440 doing and say you may want to do something else here something. Yeah, 562 00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:35,480 we're definitely like exploring that angle in this current state of the world, right, 563 00:39:35,519 --> 00:39:38,639 I think everyone's sort of considering AI. I think I'm team like put 564 00:39:38,679 --> 00:39:44,440 AI in things where it makes sense and like is actually doing good stuff. 565 00:39:45,039 --> 00:39:46,840 So like one of the things we're looking at is like can we use AI 566 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:52,559 from doing that I infer and applications of local app stack and then generate infrastructure 567 00:39:52,559 --> 00:39:59,079 as code. So like kind of investigating that and also investigating non AI powered 568 00:39:59,119 --> 00:40:00,800 approaches to doing that as well. I'm figuring out, you know, which 569 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:07,159 one is actually gonna meet the most folks needs and actually support the variety of 570 00:40:07,199 --> 00:40:09,440 developers that we have trying to use a z D. Absolutely. One thing 571 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:14,719 that would be really cool is to get an estimate of the cost of things. 572 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:16,480 You know, when you're wrapping these things up and thinking about them, 573 00:40:16,519 --> 00:40:21,920 how much would it cost to do this? You know stack, that'd be 574 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,400 really cool. Yeah, for sure. I've heard that ask a couple times, 575 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:29,599 actually, like several times since starting to work on this project. I've 576 00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:31,320 working on a CD for about a year. But I think like that's a 577 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,599 recurring theme, is like people want to know how much it costs to like 578 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:37,880 run one of the templates we have or you know, and figure they don't 579 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,440 want to like, you know, shoot themselves in the foot, hire a 580 00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,159 general contractor you want an estimate. Yeah, yeah, right right. Weird. 581 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:50,519 Everyone's cloud fear is like they rack up a four hundred dollar bill and 582 00:40:50,559 --> 00:40:53,000 then they're like, you know, out of luck. So trying to avoid 583 00:40:53,039 --> 00:40:58,119 that for sure. I just did a show and run as radio called Azure 584 00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,639 Sticker Shock. Yeah, talking to aid and Finn about that, and he's 585 00:41:01,679 --> 00:41:05,440 you know, he's happened to me, describes exactly that scenario. Well, 586 00:41:05,679 --> 00:41:08,760 working in a bigger company too, where suddenly the CFOs on the phone going 587 00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:14,639 what are you people doing down there? Oh no, this is a five 588 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,400 digit number out of nowhere. Yeah, I had that, fans. Yeah. 589 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,840 Well, and just just knowing that there are cost management tools that you 590 00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:28,079 can set baselines on how on what a reasonable spend is so that you get 591 00:41:28,119 --> 00:41:30,519 warnings. I think you can do that in Azure anyway like that. That's 592 00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:32,800 a yeah, that's a feature. You can, without a doubt have a 593 00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:37,519 watchdog and you should be doing that. But that's still post factor right yeah, 594 00:41:37,639 --> 00:41:39,199 right, which you're talking about, which I think is wicked cool, 595 00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:45,599 is just estimate, doing a basic enumeration based on the deploy and saying this 596 00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:49,039 should cost between this and this a month. The portal already does that, 597 00:41:49,159 --> 00:41:52,320 like on a resource by resource basis when you're going to make a sequel server 598 00:41:52,440 --> 00:41:55,599 or whatever. Yeah, here's the skew and here's about how much it's going 599 00:41:55,639 --> 00:42:00,280 to cost a month. You know, I like that, but yeah, 600 00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:02,599 to add them all up, yeah, at the application level, that would 601 00:42:02,599 --> 00:42:07,199 be pretty I think a lot of people would really love that. So even 602 00:42:07,199 --> 00:42:09,239 if you just had to take those files and pump it into a into a 603 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,519 gadget and then it came back and gave you estimates, right like, it 604 00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:15,440 doesn't even have to be part of the bill process so much that it's just 605 00:42:15,519 --> 00:42:19,960 like, hey, I've done all this work to describe what I'm going to 606 00:42:20,159 --> 00:42:22,840 use, rather than retype it or anything. Can I just upload these files 607 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,280 to me and you'll give me an estimate? Woo? Because it is you 608 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:29,280 know, then I could add it to the pipeline. It's like in the 609 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,159 pipeline, we do this thing and then I fire off the estimate and you'll 610 00:42:31,199 --> 00:42:35,239 get an email it said, here's the estimate based on the current deploy woo. 611 00:42:36,119 --> 00:42:38,239 Hey, if I can shift cares for a second. In the bio, 612 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:43,800 you say you were the product manager for the Pielance Language Server, which 613 00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:46,440 powers the editing experience for all these you know, visual studio, code code 614 00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,159 spaces, visual studio. What is that and why haven't I heard of that? 615 00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:53,599 Oh? Yeah, so I used to work on Python language tooling at 616 00:42:53,599 --> 00:42:59,519 Microsoft, and so the Pilance Language Server powers editing experience for Python, and 617 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,480 well, for Python. Yeah, in in vs code, visual studio, 618 00:43:02,599 --> 00:43:06,960 and some stuff on Azure too. That's why I haven't heard of it. 619 00:43:07,039 --> 00:43:10,000 Yeah, you're not a Python person. I'm not a Python guy, but 620 00:43:10,079 --> 00:43:14,400 I hear all the cool kids today are doing Python. Python was my first 621 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,920 programming language, so I'm a I'm a big fan, especially in scientific in 622 00:43:20,119 --> 00:43:23,320 academia, like it's that's all they use. Yeah. Yeah. My GitHub 623 00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:27,360 report at the end of twenty twenty two said I wrote more Python than anything 624 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,320 else last year, and it shocked me. I didn't mean to. It 625 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,239 was an accident, but you know, I was doing a bunch of datal 626 00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,719 handling stuff and by golly, Python's awfully good at that. The only thing 627 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,920 that made me satter is in the number two was yeavil oh no, and 628 00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:49,000 then c sharp came in third. So I did write some c sharp last 629 00:43:49,079 --> 00:43:55,840 year. But what happened to me? Oh man, that's so funny. 630 00:43:57,079 --> 00:44:00,360 You know. The piece we've just been sort of quietly walking around, which 631 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,960 I think is a big issue I than talking about Keybault is the security aspects 632 00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:09,039 just and I would hope in these templates, especially like that they are staying 633 00:44:09,639 --> 00:44:14,440 here's where the keys go. This should be locked up. This needs to 634 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:20,320 be validated. Do you need certificates on both sides of this, Like overall 635 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:22,360 when I wear my tinfoil hat on the security side of stuff and run as 636 00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:27,840 radio. We're talking a lot about supply chain breaching, that the black hats 637 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:32,280 are now targeting code deploys as a way to insert malicious code to get access 638 00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,519 to systems, and that there's a real pressure now for developers to have a 639 00:44:37,599 --> 00:44:40,639 more secure pipeline. Yeah, with all the templates, especially the ones that 640 00:44:40,679 --> 00:44:45,840 are coming in on Microsoft, like we're trying to enforce kind of those best 641 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,559 practices because I think there's like when you do your Google searching about getting your 642 00:44:49,559 --> 00:44:52,119 app on a particular service, it doesn't really upfront say you should use key 643 00:44:52,159 --> 00:44:55,239 vault and not hard code your tokens and secrets, or like you should maybe 644 00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:59,599 consider using a v net here or you know, something like that. So 645 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:05,119 we we like definitely like internally think about that kind of stuff and make sure 646 00:45:05,159 --> 00:45:07,440 that that's coming in the templates. And then when they're communities submitted templates to 647 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:12,360 the gallery, we are running through them and testing them and reviewing the BICEP 648 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,480 code because we don't want to promote a scenario, which we're like, you 649 00:45:15,599 --> 00:45:19,159 probably don't want to be doing that. It's an insecure scenario, right, 650 00:45:19,519 --> 00:45:22,440 and so we are thinking about, like right now that process is a bit 651 00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,760 manual for the gallery we are we are thinking about also adding it a command 652 00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:31,079 like AZD validate, which would like help us kind of build some automation or 653 00:45:31,119 --> 00:45:35,639 like basically allowed developers to kind of get a sense of whether or not it 654 00:45:35,679 --> 00:45:37,920 would be one admitted to the template gallery based on some of the standards we 655 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,719 have internally on our kind of our pipelines when we go and make templates, 656 00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:46,880 but also like trying to enforce best practices because it's not really enough that you 657 00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,880 just get your out to the cloud. It's like, we want you to 658 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,920 be set up for success to right, and enough people are just struggling to 659 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:57,480 make this work. Is like tear away anything I think is not essential to 660 00:45:57,519 --> 00:46:00,039 get this up in the first place, right, and so security off and 661 00:46:00,119 --> 00:46:04,000 gets ditched, but more and more refining out the trying to retrofit security into 662 00:46:04,039 --> 00:46:08,199 that is worse and building to get it into the pipeline at the beginning. 663 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:14,280 This is very what they're calling shift left these days, hitting security as part 664 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,159 of the initial implementation makes a huge difference. But although we are talking two 665 00:46:19,159 --> 00:46:23,360 different things here, there's security within the application itself, but also the security 666 00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:30,199 of the deployment pipeline because they are now targets of exploitation and a CD as 667 00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,480 a role to play in both of those. Really yeah, yeah, yeah, 668 00:46:34,519 --> 00:46:38,639 for sure. Yeah, it's definitely something like we want to keep like 669 00:46:38,800 --> 00:46:43,480 top of mind. That whole shift left thing is definitely something we talk about 670 00:46:43,519 --> 00:46:46,079 a lot internally as well as like figuring out how we can because I think 671 00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:51,159 the part to think of or to kind of put in front of an uninitiated 672 00:46:51,199 --> 00:46:54,239 developer someone who's new, is like why some of this stuff exists, or 673 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:59,320 like that education component, because at the end of the day, like like 674 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,719 you said, some most you want to strip away everything that's not necessary or 675 00:47:02,199 --> 00:47:06,400 because they don't understand the value it adds if it's not just like I did 676 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,599 the thing I got my app on Azure, so kind of yeah, I 677 00:47:08,599 --> 00:47:12,800 got a running close enough, right, like at least I'm up, yeah, 678 00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,000 right, And I think the thing is that is a non trivial task 679 00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:19,480 sometimes right, yes, and often the moment it's up there now they're using 680 00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,639 it so retrofitting anything gets hard. Yeah, they're like I'm done now, 681 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:24,480 Like, yeah, yeah, it serving my audience. But yeah, I 682 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:29,199 think like trying to enforce those best practices kind of throughout the workflow, not 683 00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,559 just in like the local development scenario, but as people continue to iterate and 684 00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:35,800 use AZD commands and like add them to their CI pipelines and stuff, like, 685 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,159 we want to be thinking about the security dimension as well. Yeah, 686 00:47:39,519 --> 00:47:45,159 getting better at that and just helping us do the right thing because you're trying 687 00:47:45,159 --> 00:47:49,280 to get it in afterwards is becoming more and more difficult. Savannah, what's 688 00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,519 next for you? What's in your inbox? What's in my inbox? M 689 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,639 Yeah, we're working that. I'm working on a bunch of features, specs 690 00:47:55,639 --> 00:48:00,159 and stuff for some of that, like inference of local stack generate I C. 691 00:48:02,039 --> 00:48:07,360 I've got to talk coming up in July for BS Live Redmond, all 692 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:13,519 about as your developer. Clim So got a prep for some public more public 693 00:48:13,559 --> 00:48:17,320 speaking stuff, but the summer is a little quieter than pre build because we 694 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,199 gad az a build and it was in a couple different keynotes and stuff, 695 00:48:22,599 --> 00:48:27,480 so just kind of we have a pretty public facing roadmap on our GitHub repo, 696 00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:30,599 so kind of play you away at some of those, making sure that 697 00:48:30,639 --> 00:48:34,199 we can ship some some new features to help folks get on Azure. Very 698 00:48:34,199 --> 00:48:37,440 cool. That also speaks to folks that want to participat in this that are 699 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,679 frustrated with like you can write issues, you can be part of the process. 700 00:48:42,199 --> 00:48:45,079 Are you taking prs from mixed ternals? Oh? Yeah one, so 701 00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:50,039 so I'll disclaim that the CLI is written and go. So if you're not 702 00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:52,440 a Go dav, that's cool. You can write. We would love a 703 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:57,119 contribution to the CLI corp. But we also have a vs code extension which 704 00:48:57,119 --> 00:48:59,599 is written in type scripts. If you're a type scrept person you can do 705 00:48:59,639 --> 00:49:02,880 that, or you can write templates in whatever language you'd like and submit them 706 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,159 to the gallery. And we would love to have new flavors of app scenario 707 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,639 on our template gallery too, So there's like a and also just filing issues 708 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,039 questions like helps me shape our product to make it useful for everyone too. 709 00:49:17,079 --> 00:49:22,519 So discussions issues. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, I look at the 710 00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:27,440 current issue list and it's long four something. Oh yeah, of course that'll 711 00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:29,519 change by the time anybody else can go look at it. But it's a 712 00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:34,360 lot of these almost feel like check support. You know, I'm having trouble 713 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,360 installing it on this, Like is that actually a bug? Or is this 714 00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:39,599 a procedural problem? Like, but those are all potential learnings for you. 715 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:44,559 It's like this is too hard and that doesn't work right, and maybe they 716 00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:47,079 do find something interesting. The bigger thing here is there's a lot of people 717 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:52,119 clearly using this and pressing it in places you probably haven't thought of. Yeah, 718 00:49:52,199 --> 00:49:57,719 yeah, we're even thinking about stuff like like the micro service scenarios, 719 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,320 like what if you don't have all of your app code in the same repo, 720 00:50:00,639 --> 00:50:04,960 or maybe you're doing kubernettes and you have ic in one repo manifested, 721 00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:07,159 another app code and another. How do we stitch that together? So like 722 00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:10,960 there's a you know, we're still WEGA, but there's still a long road 723 00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:15,480 ahead of us to support all the different flavors of apps. So if you 724 00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:21,599 have stuff that isn't supported by the CLI today, like wave the Flag, 725 00:50:21,719 --> 00:50:23,880 come come say hi, Like we're shaping the product. Yeah for sure, 726 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:29,440 And look at all these different products that they're pressing on it against Aks, 727 00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,920 Azure functions, Ubuntu, Like this is cool, It's it is a un 728 00:50:36,159 --> 00:50:40,320 of issues. Yeah right, All these different countries are common adges saying make 729 00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:45,639 it work from my thing. Yeah, it's an exciting problem to have, 730 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:50,440 for sure. Yeah, yeah, I think you have good problems. It's 731 00:50:50,559 --> 00:50:53,880 very exciting for sure. Well, Savannah Astrosky, thanks for being here and 732 00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:58,880 thanks for telling us about this great product. And we can't wait to hear 733 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,039 what's going on in next next year with this thing. Can't wait. Yeah, 734 00:51:02,079 --> 00:51:06,440 thanks for having me, super super fun conversation. Yeah, all right, 735 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:31,159 we'll see you next time on dot net rocks. Dot net Rocks is 736 00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:37,119 brought to you by Franklin's Net and produced by Pop Studios, a full service 737 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:42,280 audio, video and post production facility located physically in New London, Connecticut, 738 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:47,280 and of course in the cloud online at pwop dot com. Visit our website 739 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:52,760 at d O t nt r ocks dot com for RSS feeds, downloads, 740 00:51:52,920 --> 00:51:58,159 mobile apps, comments, and access to the full archives going back to show 741 00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,800 number one, recorded September two thousand and two. And make sure you check 742 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:06,679 out our sponsors. They keep us in business. Now go write some code. 743 00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:20,280 See you next time. You got a tad middle band