1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,120 What's up y'all is Drew Sky and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:08,679 a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Due Zone with Drewsky. Learn the backstories 3 00:00:08,679 --> 00:00:11,839 of your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a 4 00:00:11,919 --> 00:00:14,640 favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time? Or no? Was 5 00:00:14,679 --> 00:00:18,679 the Raptors even started on the top? Come on, bro, I tell 6 00:00:18,719 --> 00:00:21,839 you like I'm Vifty Taylor Rogues, Asia Wilson, and many more. You 7 00:00:21,879 --> 00:00:24,800 won't want to miss this. Listen to The Due Zone with Drewsky on Apple, 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:38,640 Podcast, Spotify, and wherever you listen to podcasts. Hello everyone, 9 00:00:38,719 --> 00:00:41,759 and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is out. I'm 10 00:00:41,759 --> 00:00:44,759 from well Here. It's my fantastic co host, Dan Valley. Dan, 11 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:48,119 how's it going tonight? I am doing all right? Just watch one hell 12 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,240 of a frizzy Spurs game. How about yourself? Yeah, I'm just glad 13 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,759 that the first quarter wasn't indicative of the quality of the game. It was 14 00:00:55,799 --> 00:00:59,399 super exciting. Yeah, I was a little bit concerned that we were going 15 00:00:59,439 --> 00:01:03,439 to get a clone after that. My one takeaway, at least especially in 16 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,760 the first half, part of the reason the impetus behind how the Spurs got 17 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,680 back in that Yako Peartle is a human or excuse me, Jake Puddle is 18 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:17,400 a human human Eclipse. Yeah, he's definitely a good defensive presence there. 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,439 I think one of my primary takeaways was that I regret being talked out of 20 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:26,079 including Dylan Brooks on my All herb Banos team, because that dude is just 21 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:30,599 relentless on the defensive end, and when he gets going as a scorer too, 22 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,359 Like it's not always efficient or pretty, but the energy he plays with 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,760 this so fun. I'm with you, and we're recording this right before the 24 00:01:38,799 --> 00:01:44,799 start of Lakers Warriors, so I'm excited to finally get to all NBA and 25 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,239 all defensive teams. Though these are a lot more fun. I think there 26 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:52,280 are pretty clear cut ones on the first team I would say, but these 27 00:01:52,319 --> 00:01:56,439 were a lot more fun to do and harder to do than the awards. 28 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,239 I think agree, which is kind of why we say that for a separate 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:05,599 podcast. But before we get going on those all NBA and all defensive teams, 30 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,719 I feel like I owe our listeners an update, and that is that 31 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:13,439 the only thing in my wife's office that I ruined was an old calculator and 32 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,400 a couple pieces of paper, but everything else was salvaged from the great drink 33 00:02:16,439 --> 00:02:24,360 fiasco of last episode. Was she even mad? Not really, because I 34 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:30,080 didn't ruin a computer or anything actually important. And then when she listened to 35 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,719 the first minute and a half of the actual recording when it was live, 36 00:02:34,759 --> 00:02:38,039 she just thought it was hilarious. I cut stuff out of that too, 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:42,120 because there was some stuff that I said that were incoherent towards the end because 38 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:46,039 I had no idea what I was not planning to talk to the children without 39 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,080 you, So it was edited a little bit too, so she didn't even 40 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,639 get the raw the raw footage. I mean, she stopped listening as soon 41 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:54,759 as you started talking, which I imagine many of our listeners do. I 42 00:02:54,759 --> 00:03:00,719 did appreciate some of our listeners reaching out and complaining about our selection we had 43 00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:04,280 the there was the discourse and the hardware Knox Twitter. Someone was very unhappy 44 00:03:04,319 --> 00:03:07,639 that we had or maybe was it just me that had Haliburton over Edwards and 45 00:03:07,719 --> 00:03:09,719 Rookie of the Year or do you have them too as well? Yeah, 46 00:03:09,719 --> 00:03:13,639 they thought it was two numbers focused and I don't even I know I cited 47 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:15,960 like the vorp thing that's fun at the end, but not like we didn't 48 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:20,400 even use numbers necessarily justify his entire case. Yeah, I think I didn't 49 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,400 really respond to that one on Twitter, but I guess if I'm responding now, 50 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:30,240 like that kind of implied to me that Haliburton doesn't pass the eye test, 51 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:34,960 which is really strange because I think it's very obvious and it actually runs 52 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:38,400 counter to the numbers, which indicate that his team has been slightly worse with 53 00:03:38,479 --> 00:03:42,199 him on the floor. But to me, it's been abundantly clear how much 54 00:03:42,199 --> 00:03:45,840 better he makes everyone, And I do think that's you know, there's more 55 00:03:45,879 --> 00:03:49,199 a lot of it Edwards stuff. It focuses too much on volume in my 56 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,879 opinion. I know his role overall was probably more difficult, but it's also 57 00:03:52,879 --> 00:03:55,080 difficult to not have a creative license, you know, like what would Haliburton 58 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,759 have done if right Fox was injured for a huge chunk of the year, 59 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:00,840 like when Edwards had no town is there no devo for part of the season 60 00:04:01,199 --> 00:04:05,800 exactly? And defense too, Like there wasn't even just a comparison to what 61 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:10,680 Haliburton did defensively compared to Edwards, and I actually think it's fine to pick 62 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,240 Edwards. I just don't think Haliburton is an egregious selection at number two, 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,040 nor do I. But that's probably the last we're going to talk about rookies 64 00:04:18,519 --> 00:04:23,279 on this episode, because I don't believe that a single first year player is 65 00:04:23,319 --> 00:04:27,759 on any of our All NBA or all defensive teams. Speak for yourself. 66 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:33,639 I mean, I feel like I've heard your list. So where do you 67 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:35,639 want to start? Do you want to go with all defense and then all 68 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,399 MBA or do you want to do all MBA. Yeah, let's do all 69 00:04:38,399 --> 00:04:42,600 defensive first. We had the same exact all defense team on the first team, 70 00:04:42,759 --> 00:04:45,720 So how about you just speak for the two of us here. I 71 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:49,360 can do that. Yeah. So it kind of aligns pretty strongly with our 72 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,079 defensive Player of the Year ballots, where we had Rudy Gobert, who we 73 00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:59,399 both believe is the obvious front runner for dpoy Draymond Green, Ben Simmons, 74 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:05,120 Joel mb and Jimmy Butler. It's justifying defensive selections is always a little bit 75 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:13,879 tricky because the metrics are very flawed as standalone entities, and they don't often 76 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,000 agree like they happen to, with Gobert just having an absolutely monstrous impact on 77 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,839 that end this season. But you just watch all these guys, and for 78 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,959 Draymond Green and Ben Simmons, it's the versatility and the way they're able to 79 00:05:27,079 --> 00:05:30,399 orchestrate defenses from the perimeter while also operating on the interior. Jimmy Butler, 80 00:05:30,439 --> 00:05:36,560 it's just the grit personified that he plays with. If he is fully engaged 81 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:40,240 and locked in on you, you're just not going to score. And then 82 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:43,600 with Himbid and Gobert, it's it's the rim protection. It's the ability to 83 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:47,680 just shut down the paint and create defensive systems around them because there's no need 84 00:05:47,759 --> 00:05:53,560 to worry about that vital portion of half court defense. So all five of 85 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:58,759 these guys, like, I think their work just speaks for itself as long 86 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,120 as you've watched them play for what like three minutes this season, right, 87 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:09,519 And who if you throw health out the window, do you think I think 88 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:13,560 there's the school thought that specifically within Bad and maybe even Draymond Green, do 89 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:17,639 you view them as a more impactful defender than Rudy Gobert If everyone's playing every 90 00:06:17,639 --> 00:06:20,480 single minute of every single game just based on what they're doing per minute, 91 00:06:23,079 --> 00:06:29,120 I don't think so. It's probably it's closer, probably closest with Draymond Green 92 00:06:29,279 --> 00:06:32,639 because of the impact that he has elevating the performance of his teammates. Like, 93 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:39,399 if you're picking out a guy who's coaching up his fellow running mates during 94 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,959 live action, it's Draymond Green. He's teaching, He's using moments to teach 95 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,639 without sacrificing his own play, And I think he elevates the entire scheme so 96 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,079 much because of that. But at this stage of his career, like he's 97 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:54,839 not going to give you that kind of effort and energy for thirty six minutes 98 00:06:54,839 --> 00:06:57,920 a game, for every game of the season. I think that's totally fair. 99 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:00,079 I would. I think most people say it's closer with bead probably because 100 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:02,360 the way he can change the shot, probably more so than Draymond Green. 101 00:07:02,399 --> 00:07:05,759 But looking at sheer responsibility, I think you could maybe make a case for 102 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,360 Green, but it's still go bear to me, it's just impossible to make 103 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:14,720 a case against him. Yeah, and I there are there are players from 104 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,680 our second team selections who are probably I would guess, challenging Butler for a 105 00:07:18,759 --> 00:07:24,199 first team spot. I think he's the weakest entrant among this first quintet, 106 00:07:25,079 --> 00:07:30,959 but like, no one's getting there. Yeah, I'm looking at myself. 107 00:07:30,079 --> 00:07:33,800 There's there's no one that I would put above any of the five like that. 108 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:39,839 There wasn't even My first team came together very quickly. Right, Do 109 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:43,800 you agree that Butler was probably the weakest of the inclusions? Though I hate 110 00:07:43,839 --> 00:07:47,600 saying that because there's a in total value. Maybe not if you want to 111 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,120 look at how much he played. Perhaps, but yeah, I mean, 112 00:07:50,279 --> 00:07:54,600 I'm probably probably kind of with It's just wild. I feel I don't want 113 00:07:54,600 --> 00:08:00,680 to denigrate Jimmy Butler because right the only denigration here is like, you are 114 00:08:00,839 --> 00:08:03,279 the weakest of the five best defenders this season. I guess the best way 115 00:08:03,319 --> 00:08:05,839 to put it is, he didn't make the top three of my defensive Player 116 00:08:05,839 --> 00:08:09,639 of the Year ballot, but he essentially made my top five defensive player of 117 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,639 the year ballot, right exactly. He was an honorable mention. He was 118 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:16,199 at least one of the two weakest of this five. That's the best way 119 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:22,120 to spend this insult. It's not even an insult. But Jimmy Butler will 120 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:26,839 probably take this as motivation because I'm sure he listens hard with Knox and he 121 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,639 might start his workouts at like two thirty six instead of two forty. Am. 122 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:35,080 Wow, yeah you think that late? Yeah, that's true. I 123 00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:39,519 don't know if he's been slacking quite like that this season. Who's on your 124 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,559 second team or did you want me to kick off the second team? I 125 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:45,919 can kick it off, that's fine. I mean, I think we differed 126 00:08:45,919 --> 00:08:52,240 a lot more here. This was really hard to pick. So my selections 127 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:56,879 were Drew Holiday, Janni Santa To Kumbo Bam Auto Baio, Miles Turner, 128 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:01,440 and Clint Cappella. So I've just this ginorm jumbo size lineup since positions don't 129 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,799 matter for all defensive selections. But I'll have to give like so many shout 130 00:09:05,799 --> 00:09:13,360 outs here because there were just a bajillion candidates for these five spots. So 131 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,440 I have written down apologies to Dejante, Murray, Batist, Table Lu Dork, 132 00:09:16,519 --> 00:09:20,759 Mhillbridge, is og Onanobi, Dylan Brooks, Kawhi, Leonard, Paul 133 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:24,200 George Norland, stillwell, Fred VanVleet and t J. McConnell, and I 134 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:28,279 still left out people. There are still snubs from my ridiculously long list of 135 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:33,519 snubs. Yeah, I had I don't even Kawai was a snub of mine. 136 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,360 I felt very awkward leaving him off the second team he played. I 137 00:09:35,399 --> 00:09:39,720 think there's at least one person, maybe two, that you could justify putting 138 00:09:39,799 --> 00:09:43,279 him over. But I couldn't shake two of my inclusions, and they were 139 00:09:43,279 --> 00:09:46,320 both in your honorable mentions. I couldn't. I think I was a little 140 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:52,840 bit more liberal with I didn't care about playing time as much during this during 141 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,519 this one, and I was really trying to look at, like more of 142 00:09:56,519 --> 00:10:00,480 the stuff that's just stood out to me over the season. So I had 143 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:01,559 if you want me to go through my second team, you want to go 144 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:05,559 through yours first. No, I mean I already listened him out. I 145 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,080 would just say. The only place where I kind of veered away from that 146 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:15,279 minute's threshold was with Miles Turner, who had he played twenty more games, 147 00:10:15,279 --> 00:10:16,960 would have been in the defensive Player of the Year conversation. Oh, I 148 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,480 don't know why I only heard you list off your honorable mentions, but but 149 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:24,720 I had Michail Bridges, Dejanta, Murray bam aut of, Baio, Drew 150 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:28,759 Holiday, and Janice attempt to Kimbo Jannie is probably the one that I think 151 00:10:28,759 --> 00:10:31,440 you could make a case for to go on first team if you really wanted 152 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,159 to. Would be my guess. You know, I really thought about that 153 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:37,799 with both Drew and Bam Auto Baio, which is interesting because those are the 154 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,080 three we had in common. Yeah, and look, Drew, you know, 155 00:10:43,159 --> 00:10:46,559 I'm mister Chris Middleton. The second best player on the Bucks this year 156 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,200 was Drew Holiday, and it might have been by a substantial margin because of 157 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,720 the breath of responsibility on the defensive end. Just dude, who can defend 158 00:10:54,759 --> 00:10:58,279 any guard, any guard and then most wings and just just do it. 159 00:10:58,799 --> 00:11:03,559 And I I constantly look at the impact he has on a possession to possession 160 00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:05,240 basis when you look at his activity, when you look at how consistently he 161 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,679 just going up against opposing stars, and it never seems like he he wears 162 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,399 down. It doesn't feel like there's a switch that he needs to flip. 163 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,559 He's just always go, go, go, and it's it's always against the 164 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:22,080 most toughest, against the toughest, most toughest well assignments, and there's it 165 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,360 feels like there's no respite for him. I guess we'll get where. You 166 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:26,200 look at Janice and he did a lot more switching this year. I think 167 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,559 his overall assignment difficulty statistically when you look at partial possessions, was slightly harder. 168 00:11:31,799 --> 00:11:37,799 But like Drew Holiday just doesn't have a break. He carries perhaps one 169 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,720 of the five or sixth biggest single player workloads in the NBA on the defensive 170 00:11:41,799 --> 00:11:46,480 end. See, I'm still struggling to wrap my head around not having Yannis 171 00:11:46,519 --> 00:11:50,399 on the first team because he is the reigning defensive Player of the Year and 172 00:11:50,519 --> 00:11:54,559 yet like he might have gotten better this year on defense, but he still 173 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:58,840 doesn't feel like he's one of the five first teamers. And I wonder if 174 00:11:58,879 --> 00:12:05,720 that's just another example of like how we're slightly fatigued on Janice's consistent excellence, 175 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,919 and you know, when you go over the first team, you probably could 176 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:13,159 be like, wait, playing time heavier and say Jannis can be in there 177 00:12:13,159 --> 00:12:18,720 over and beat or Jimmy Butler. But yeah, it's it's tough to delineate 178 00:12:18,759 --> 00:12:22,200 between some of those guys. I don't think Murray has gotten enough credit this 179 00:12:22,279 --> 00:12:24,240 year though it's just one of the best on ball defenders in the NBA. 180 00:12:24,279 --> 00:12:30,600 He actually started the playing game with the Grizzlies by getting a steal and then 181 00:12:30,759 --> 00:12:33,799 for a steal and then from ran too Yeah, scoring and transition like that. 182 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:37,600 He could be a professional pickpocketer if he wanted to make millions of dollars, 183 00:12:37,639 --> 00:12:41,279 probably make more money that he's making right now because of how Smoothie is 184 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:45,960 with it. I get that he doesn't have like the same scope as Drew 185 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,120 Holiday because he's not going to go up against those like bigger, heavier wings, 186 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,600 but he is just so tenacious on the ball, and I do I 187 00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,120 don't know that it's gotten lost in this, but there's either a tendency to 188 00:12:56,159 --> 00:12:58,320 think that maybe it's Derek White or that the Spurs just don't have that blue 189 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,679 ship cornerstone. It's very clearly dejan Day Murray, and that gets too much 190 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:05,519 into his offense when you have that larger discussion. But he's still fantastic on 191 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,279 defense and then Bridges. I think he graduated from being an underrated player this 192 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,159 year, but I still think everyone looks at him and says, oh, 193 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:15,440 he's this fantastic team defender, and I still think he does a lot of 194 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,080 really good one on one stuff and you look at him, just see some 195 00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,679 of the assignments that he's had the shoulder. It definitely helps that he had 196 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Jay crowder by a side for minutes this year, but he does a ton 197 00:13:24,879 --> 00:13:26,960 of the heavy lifting through the Phoenix suns on that side the floor. He's 198 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:33,039 so smart to where I guess if you're going through these five, i'd probably 199 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,919 say the second best team to I mean, Jannis has to be up there 200 00:13:37,159 --> 00:13:39,440 or even Bam. I don't, let's not get into that pecking letter. 201 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,399 But he's just he's the fact that he's an amazing team defender, and it's 202 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,360 just one of those guys where there's no such thing as gambling because everything is 203 00:13:46,399 --> 00:13:52,360 so cold and calculated when he's away from the ball. Not that I don't 204 00:13:52,879 --> 00:13:56,039 like watching defense, but mcal Bridges is someone that I can zero in on 205 00:13:56,039 --> 00:14:00,240 on defense and never take my eyes off of. I don't hate of the 206 00:14:00,279 --> 00:14:03,879 selections. I mean, there were two of the most prominent names on my 207 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,879 list of snubs there, and I just I wonder what it's like to be 208 00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:11,120 de Jonte Murray and have to bend your arms at all times so your fingers 209 00:14:11,159 --> 00:14:16,960 don't scrape the floor. That dude is just so long it is It's ridiculous 210 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,320 how easy it is for him. To impact passing lanes or poke the ball 211 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,759 away just because it's like he has two arms where a lot of players have 212 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:30,360 one. Did you give any consideration to Marcus Smart. Yeah, he was 213 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,799 like the first name off my list of snubs, and I considered adding him 214 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:39,600 back in, but ultimately I didn't want it to grow past a dozen, 215 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,159 so I had to make a cut somewhere. But I think like, and 216 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,799 it kind of ties into why Miles Turner and Clint Capello were my two second 217 00:14:48,799 --> 00:14:52,960 team selections you didn't have. I didn't view Marcus Smart this year in particular 218 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,360 as like a scheme altering force, and that's kind of where I tended to 219 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,120 gravitate to, which is probably why my team is so center heavy here. 220 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,639 Miles Turner was the Pacers defense and Clint Capella was the unquestioned spark for the 221 00:15:09,679 --> 00:15:16,039 second half defensive turnaround from the Hawks. Their rise coincided with him becoming such 222 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,679 a crucial part of that rotation and getting healthy and being fully impactful and proving 223 00:15:20,759 --> 00:15:26,559 that he wasn't just some product of James Harden's greatness in Houston. So for 224 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:31,279 me, those two guys elevated the entire unit enough that I wanted to give 225 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:37,120 them more credit than guys who are probably quote unquote better defender, similar to 226 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:41,159 what I was saying on the previous episode about Ben Simmons and Rudy Gobert, 227 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:45,399 where the versatility in all around excellence of Simmons might make him a quote unquote 228 00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:48,279 better defender, but he doesn't have as much of an impact. I get 229 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:54,200 the Capella one. If I were going to go with Miles Turner, I 230 00:15:54,279 --> 00:15:56,440 think I would have probably been more inclined to like throw out the plank, 231 00:15:56,559 --> 00:16:00,519 given how much time he missed towards the end of the year consecutively. I 232 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,039 would have found a way to shoot Horn and Ogan and Obi in there. 233 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:04,480 And I really tried to find a way to shoot Horn, Ogan and Obi 234 00:16:04,519 --> 00:16:07,879 in there. But then I got into the issue of, well, how 235 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:11,559 do you justify that if Turners not there just because of the playing game as 236 00:16:11,559 --> 00:16:14,159 well, and then also the Bible was then in that discussion, and so 237 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:18,360 I ended up actually considering playing time more than I thought I was going to. 238 00:16:19,519 --> 00:16:22,159 And I don't really regret how the second team turned out. But Anna 239 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,799 Obi was, for me personally, was the toughest cut to make here. 240 00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:33,679 I think that was tible for me, but I get the arguments for a 241 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,360 lot of these guys. I feel like you have a guy who could defend 242 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:41,080 eight players at once, but can you do it for thirty five rants a 243 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:44,480 game would be the question. The playing time concern is a big one there 244 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,759 because it's not due to injuries. It's due to not being a prominent enough 245 00:16:47,799 --> 00:16:52,840 part of the rotation. That was the primary argument for me not including him. 246 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,240 Do you want to is at it? Any other thoughts on All Defense? 247 00:16:55,279 --> 00:16:56,720 Anyone else who was just super tough to leave off, or people who 248 00:16:56,639 --> 00:17:00,399 are going to be expecting to see Andre Drummond didn't get any concer duration. 249 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,599 You know, I really thought about Damian Lillard this season, but I just 250 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,039 I couldn't do it. Someone's going to give Andrew Wiggins an All Defense vote 251 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:11,480 this year. It's going I'm not that he doesn't deserve it, but someone's 252 00:17:11,519 --> 00:17:15,000 going to. That's going to be the one. I think that's the player 253 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,359 where it's like, oh, that's interesting. I haven't really thought about who 254 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:25,319 might get credit and doesn't deserve it. Just look at the defensive rebound category 255 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:30,240 and you'll probably find someone. Yeah that's fair. Now is the chance to 256 00:17:30,359 --> 00:17:37,319 use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment. Our 257 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:42,400 new investment product offers competitive returns, no maintenance fees, and flexible online access 258 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,680 to your money. Make the Reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy Reliability 259 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:55,200 Investment. To find out more, go online to Reliability Investment dot Com. 260 00:17:55,240 --> 00:18:00,960 That's Reliability Investment dot com. Do you want to take us through all MBA 261 00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:06,720 first team? Yeah, so the first team, and we're gonna kind of 262 00:18:06,759 --> 00:18:10,119 go through these a little bit quickly because we've talked about a lot of these 263 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:11,839 players at nauseum at this point. You know what I was going to say, 264 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,839 Should we do? You just want to go like center, center, 265 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:18,839 center, get through all three teams and go buy position instead of jumping around 266 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:22,240 teams. No, I don't. I don't think I do, just because 267 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:26,240 the positions are so strange this year. Like we have nicolea Yokich and Joel 268 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,440 Mbid both on the first team. They're both centers. I do not have 269 00:18:30,559 --> 00:18:33,599 both of them on the first team. Well you should, No, you 270 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:38,079 should because Darryl Moorey is pissed right now. Do either of them defend forwards 271 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,519 enough? No? But they're listed there, So let's put the best players 272 00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:45,319 on the on the best team, which is why I have Luka, Don 273 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,559 Chich, Damian Lillard, and Stephen Curry on this. Luka don statistically defend 274 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:53,079 small forwards is the position. It was power forward he defended most I know 275 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,519 tracking did. It's not perfect. If I was going to justify including anyone 276 00:18:56,599 --> 00:19:00,200 who you know, Don Chich or an Embiide or Robert it had the data 277 00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,759 had to line up and with done. Did I think his position estimate on 278 00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:07,440 defense was two point nine or something that it averaged out to be so had 279 00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:12,440 to be Ballingdeck's fantastic site. Yeah, so I think the only the only 280 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:17,279 place we disagree then is that I had him Bide instead of Damian Lillard. 281 00:19:17,799 --> 00:19:22,400 And for me the really tough decision here. Steph was a lock and Beide 282 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,000 was a lock for me because I was just gonna take advantage of the positional 283 00:19:26,039 --> 00:19:30,680 eligibility the NBA officially granted him for this, and Yokich was very obviously a 284 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,079 lock, as was Jannis, So for me it was done versus Damian Lillard 285 00:19:33,599 --> 00:19:40,440 and it was an impossible choice. But ultimately, like Don's team has had 286 00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:45,880 more success and he has been even more integral to that success somehow than Lillard 287 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,559 has been to Portland's. That's what the argument boiled down to for me is 288 00:19:52,319 --> 00:19:57,640 don Chitch is responsible for everything that Dallas does on offense. His supporting cast 289 00:19:57,759 --> 00:20:02,880 is not the same game that Portland's is, and yet Dallas is a better 290 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:04,400 team and it's because of how well Don chech has played. And we've talked 291 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,440 about it before, but I think it's it's been too easy to dismiss the 292 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:12,599 level at which he's played this year because it still feels like a relative disappointment 293 00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:18,559 because he came into the season as the odds on MVP favorite. Dallas is 294 00:20:18,559 --> 00:20:22,799 supposed to ascend into like the top three conversation in the West. It didn't 295 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,960 and he isn't going to win MVP. Therefore it's viewed as a disappointment even 296 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,559 though he's putting together a historically excellent season. So your first team then was 297 00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:41,079 Stephen Curry, Luca don Chi, Joe Johannis Kitchens. Yeah, that's four 298 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,200 of those guys are just locks or the right the step Ye or Steph Janis 299 00:20:45,279 --> 00:20:47,839 Yokich. Because I guess people the way they fux and fiddle with their bowts, 300 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,000 those are on Those are the just whatever your bout looks like, those 301 00:20:51,039 --> 00:20:53,559 three are on it. I then had you have one of Game or Luca 302 00:20:53,839 --> 00:20:56,160 is the like you have like those are the four guys. I had both, 303 00:20:56,799 --> 00:21:00,400 and I think it also for me it was I don't know that I 304 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,400 felt like I needed to give Clint Cappella a band out, a bio third 305 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:07,039 team consideration for centers, it made more sense for me to pick up that 306 00:21:07,079 --> 00:21:11,039 extra guard spot by going with Don chitch Here. And he was also top 307 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,519 five on my MVP ballot, and so this just felt right. So I 308 00:21:15,519 --> 00:21:19,079 wonder if we have any different differences in the top ten then, because my 309 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:23,519 second team is Damian Lillard, who's on your first team, and vice versa 310 00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:26,680 for you, because I know you'll have him beat on your second team. 311 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,799 But I also had I'm just kidding, go ahead, sorry, just this 312 00:21:30,839 --> 00:21:33,839 look of shock and terror, like we're gonna we're gonna publish this. Shall 313 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,720 we start over? My second team is Damian Lillard, Chris Paul Kawhi, 314 00:21:37,799 --> 00:21:45,559 Leonard, Jimmy Butler, and Rudy Gobert. We differed by one player, 315 00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:51,599 so I had Joel Embiid Jimmy Butler, Kawhi Leonard, Chris Paul, and 316 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,039 Devin Booker is the one that I think is going to surprise people. Look, 317 00:21:56,599 --> 00:22:00,039 this dude average over twenty five points for US this game. That was 318 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:04,480 with seating a lot of the offensive control the CP three. The Suns destroyed 319 00:22:04,599 --> 00:22:10,400 opponents when he was on the floor without CP three. I do think he 320 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:14,039 was definitely more engaged defensively, but I would fall well short of saying that 321 00:22:14,079 --> 00:22:18,400 he was a good or even close to average defender. I think when you 322 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,519 look at other considerations, and some of them are going to be considered on 323 00:22:21,599 --> 00:22:25,160 the third team, he had the edge in the minutes that he was going 324 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,519 to end up playing or just sheer games and staying healthy over a Donovan Mitchell 325 00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,359 over if you were going to consider Deanon Fox, Kyrie Irving. And the 326 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,319 thing that really swayed me is Chris Paul was going to be an All NBA 327 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,920 lock for me. And I couldn't get around the fact that I think Devin 328 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,440 Booker is more valuable to the Sun's overall the number of double teams, the 329 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,799 frequency with which he draws double teams, I'll say, the percent of his 330 00:22:47,839 --> 00:22:52,279 possessions slightly higher than CP three. His decision making out of them, it's 331 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,519 incredible. I would say it's better than you know, you look at some 332 00:22:55,559 --> 00:22:57,839 of the guys with similar assist numbers like Adjason, Tatum and him, I 333 00:22:57,839 --> 00:23:02,839 think were identical in the assist they average per game. And that's not to 334 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,599 shill over just Tatum, who is absolutely fantastic going to drop fifty burgers in 335 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,200 the playing game. Let's see if he does it against the nets. But 336 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:15,079 the decision making from book they don't play defense, that is true. It 337 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,640 seems smarter from Booker and just more complicated still, and there's just a level 338 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,680 of him creating shots that and I say this whole time that just otherwise wouldn't 339 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,079 exist if he wasn't on the floor. I know he had his crunch time 340 00:23:26,079 --> 00:23:30,720 struggles, and a Tatum and a Chris Paul all they outperformed him in those 341 00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:36,519 situations. I I just I watch him. I see the attention that he 342 00:23:36,599 --> 00:23:38,319 draws even away from the ball because he's a fantastic cutter, and I thought 343 00:23:38,319 --> 00:23:41,079 they should have got him moving in more of those situations. I think because 344 00:23:41,079 --> 00:23:44,279 of how much they sort of split him and Chris Paul up. This year. 345 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,480 That's probably why it didn't happen as much so the burden that he's carrying 346 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:49,400 there and this is just like, you know, shooting above fifty percent on 347 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,359 twos. He was above fifty four percent this year, I believe, and 348 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,400 scoring this much, passing this much. This has been a thing for like 349 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,960 three or four years now. This is not new, and I don't consists 350 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,400 he doesn't have to be part of that because I'm looking at just this season. 351 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:04,720 But it's almost amazing to me that he's done churned out these type of 352 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:07,680 numbers, and it's because the Suns haven't been good. He didn't really ever 353 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,799 garner consideration. This year probably provided a window of opportunity, though, just 354 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:17,519 in the sense that Kyrie Irving played more. Could you really justify picking Devin 355 00:24:17,559 --> 00:24:21,039 Booker or Chris Paul over Kyrie? I I don't know, but I think 356 00:24:21,079 --> 00:24:23,640 Devin Booker maybe second team will be ambitious to some people, but when I 357 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,400 look at my third team guards, it doesn't feel like it to me at 358 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:30,160 least. That's probably the one of mine that I think is going to rankle 359 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,680 people and catch them off guard. But people who listen to this podcast know 360 00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:38,599 how strongly I feel about Devin Booker's value to Phoenix. I think Devin Booker 361 00:24:38,599 --> 00:24:42,319 would have been on my fifth team. How do we extended it? Which 362 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:48,160 I really don't even mean as an insult because ultimately, like the way my 363 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,880 ballot was structured, I'll go ahead and spoil it now. I have Damian 364 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:53,640 Lillard and Chris Paul as my second team guards. I have James Harden and 365 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,720 Russell Westbrook as my third team, and my honorable mentions were Kyrie Irving and 366 00:24:57,759 --> 00:25:04,960 Bradley Beale. And I think Booker is just a hair below that tier for 367 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,680 me, which is fine, Like that's still a really lofty level. And 368 00:25:10,839 --> 00:25:14,000 I don't hate the argument at all that you're making for the second team selection. 369 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:18,359 In a lot of ways, I think that Devin Booker might become the 370 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:25,599 next generation Demarta Rozen, where there's a little bit of a discrepancy between the 371 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,480 advanced numbers and the eye test. In Derozen's case, it was that his 372 00:25:30,559 --> 00:25:36,839 teams didn't often succeed with him on the floor because his playing style wasn't necessarily 373 00:25:36,839 --> 00:25:41,480 cohesive with those around him. With Booker, it's that he doesn't create enough 374 00:25:41,519 --> 00:25:47,240 disruptive defensive possessions to measure out as even remotely good. On the defensive end. 375 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:49,720 He turns the ball over a little bit too frequently, and he's not 376 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,920 that accurate from the three point arc. But what that all overlooks is the 377 00:25:55,079 --> 00:26:00,079 ridiculous difficulty of his role. You can't those numbers just aren't accounting for the 378 00:26:00,079 --> 00:26:04,519 defensive pressure that he receives on a nightly basis, the tough shots that he's 379 00:26:04,559 --> 00:26:11,200 asked to make over outstretched arms from late shot clock situations, and in these 380 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:15,200 bailout possessions that drive down the numbers. It doesn't show how much he's improved 381 00:26:15,279 --> 00:26:18,880 as a distributor who gets a lot of secondary assists because he draws so much 382 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:26,720 defensive attention. He's way better than the numbers indicate. So your your second 383 00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,480 team guards were Dame and Chris Paul. Your current team was what again, 384 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:36,559 was James Harden and Russell Westbrook. I'm curious as to I get the Russell 385 00:26:36,599 --> 00:26:38,559 Westbrook thing because he came on so late in the well. I won't say 386 00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:41,480 so late, but he was a force of nature for a good joke of 387 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,799 the year, right why? And I'm gonna do so. My third team 388 00:26:44,839 --> 00:26:47,920 guards are Reavy Beal, which is funny. It's funny that we're opposites, 389 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,160 Kyrie Irving and Radley Beal, so we just flip popped the teammates. I 390 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,920 literally have Russell Westbrook parentheses shouts to Kyrie and Beal. The I have Russell 391 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:02,519 Westbrook was put on my fourth team. I have a fourth team list here. 392 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,160 But so anyway, why did you pick James Harden over Kyrie? Kyrie 393 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,559 ended up playing more minutes than Harden this year, and I think you have 394 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,119 to throw Harden's first eight games you do, because his the Houston tenure doesn't 395 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:21,799 help him at all. Yeah, it definitely doesn't. It does quite the 396 00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:25,960 opposite where it still holds him back. But what he was able to do 397 00:27:26,839 --> 00:27:30,000 in the one thousand, six hundred and nine minutes that he played for both 398 00:27:30,079 --> 00:27:37,359 teams combined still superseded what Kyrie Irving did in his one eight hundred and eighty 399 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:41,680 six minutes. I mean, it's easy to hate on Harden's playing style because 400 00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:47,640 it's a little bit abrasive to watch. It kind of exploits the rule book, 401 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,079 albeit in legal fashion, and then you throw in the disaster that was 402 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:59,440 his Houston Rockets tenure during this twenty twenty one season, and I think it's 403 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:06,200 easy to overlook just how ridiculously effective he is as an offensive basketball player. 404 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,440 With the nets, He's still averaged twenty four point six points, eight point 405 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,279 five rebounds, ten point nine assists. He shot forty seven point one percent 406 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,119 from the field, thirty six point six percent from from the from three point 407 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,000 land, and eighty five point six percent from the line on huge volume. 408 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:26,359 From both of those latter two categories, He's He's an offenssive force. He 409 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:32,160 completely warps what defenses can do in a way that Kyrie Irving doesn't because Irving 410 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,319 is a one on one maestro who's going to show off the ball handling wizardry 411 00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:40,920 and break down any matchup. But he is not a scheme altering force because 412 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,480 you're still looking to guard him in those one on one situations with a little 413 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:48,799 bit of help. You have to completely game plan for James Harden in a 414 00:28:48,799 --> 00:28:52,839 way that you don't necessarily have to for Irving. So to me, even 415 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:56,920 with all those negatives working against him and the limitations in the playing time department, 416 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,680 he's just such an impactful player that I could not leave him off. 417 00:29:03,079 --> 00:29:04,759 Kyrie's efficiency, I guess was just too much for me. You're looking at 418 00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:07,960 some of who Ever's twenty seven point six assists fifty six point one percent on 419 00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,799 twos, and these are not like gimme twos that he's given. He finishes 420 00:29:11,839 --> 00:29:14,680 from all over the place. I feel like he almost makes some of his 421 00:29:14,759 --> 00:29:18,599 layups more difficult on purpose, forty point two percent on threes. His shot 422 00:29:18,599 --> 00:29:25,079 difficulty is still exceedingly hard, and I get Hardon is clearly Hardon is the 423 00:29:25,119 --> 00:29:30,039 better player, He's the better passer. I'm not gonna compare their scoring numbers 424 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,640 because Harden made and I think this was a huge decision, and maybe that's 425 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,599 part of his NBA case. Aike decided that he was going to be the 426 00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:38,599 one that would power the point guard position when there were when it wasn't just 427 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,960 him alone, but when they're i'll say multiple stars on the court, because 428 00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:47,000 we saw so little of all three stars on the court. But Kyrie Irving 429 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:52,200 was just as valuable to me in those limited star minutes where when you look 430 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:56,839 at how the Nets were playing offensively when he was the the only star, 431 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,519 they didn't offensive rating of one twenty without durand or hardened on the floor. 432 00:30:00,519 --> 00:30:04,599 And then you had Kyrie, the defense was clearly a problem. But adding 433 00:30:04,599 --> 00:30:08,279 all that to the fact that I viewed the playing time gap as a bigger 434 00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:11,440 one than it actually is because I threw out those eight games in Houston. 435 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:15,440 For James Harden, it was too tough for him to overcome. In my 436 00:30:15,519 --> 00:30:18,680 book, I think look guards were impossible for me here. I think there 437 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,920 were. There are definitely snubs where I'm looking at forwards and I don't I 438 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,200 really don't feel like there were snubs for center. If you're gonna get out 439 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:27,920 of like bend out of shape about Bam or Compella not being on here, 440 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,079 I don't, you know. I wish the NBA would get rid of positions 441 00:30:32,079 --> 00:30:33,759 for this. I'm just a little bit surprised. I get I could see 442 00:30:33,759 --> 00:30:38,559 almost the Russell Westbrook versus bal comparison because of how much Westbrook powers the offense, 443 00:30:38,599 --> 00:30:41,240 even sometimes to a detriment. He watched him shoot the Wizards out of 444 00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:45,720 the playing game versus Celtics, and it's not like be able to spectacular that 445 00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:49,319 game either. But he's just more has a ton more responsibility than Bradley Beal's 446 00:30:49,359 --> 00:30:53,079 a playmaker. I think that Kyrie's is at least more comparable to Hardens. 447 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:59,200 And look again, the efficiency was just absolutely off the charts. And he 448 00:30:59,279 --> 00:31:03,000 had I call it a fifty forty ninety season with twos. I mean he 449 00:31:03,039 --> 00:31:07,200 had it anyway, but he had a you know, a fifty six forty 450 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,759 ninety two season when looking at his two like, that's just that's wild to 451 00:31:10,799 --> 00:31:14,720 me. It is fun that it was Hardened verse Kyrie and Westbrook verst Beal 452 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:18,279 in both cases for those guards spots, and for me, it felt like 453 00:31:18,279 --> 00:31:21,920 a crime to leave Beal off. That was the really tough snub for me. 454 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:25,440 Ultimately, his shots were still through the roof for me. But I'm 455 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:27,720 curious, System, what was your reasoning for putting Russ above him? You 456 00:31:27,759 --> 00:31:30,319 know, you said that Russ shot them out of the play in game, 457 00:31:30,319 --> 00:31:33,799 and you're right, But without Russ there wouldn't have been a play in game. 458 00:31:33,799 --> 00:31:38,319 That's ultimately what it comes down to. It's more than just Westbrook versus 459 00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:44,000 Beal. It's Westbrook empowering the Wizards to believe they could make it that far 460 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:48,160 despite the horrible start to the season and the injuries they had already suffered. 461 00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:53,839 Just the energy with which he plays every single night is contagious, and that 462 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:57,160 to me is something that isn't going to be captured in the numbers, which 463 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:05,000 might still favor west Brook, but it pushed him ahead. Where as good 464 00:32:05,039 --> 00:32:08,880 as Beal is and as good as his leadership traits are, he did not 465 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:16,960 inspire that team to the same level that Westbrook's unrelenting motor did. It's funny 466 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:21,359 because I'm not sure that I think it's a definite discussion, but I wouldn't 467 00:32:21,359 --> 00:32:25,960 have had Russ as my alternative to Bradley behel Er Kyrie and so what you 468 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,880 have I'll get into that when we get the audiable mentions. Who did you 469 00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:32,039 have as your third team forwards? My third team forwards were Lebron James and 470 00:32:32,079 --> 00:32:37,240 Julius Randall, And it was really hard to leave off Zion Williamson. Oh 471 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:40,599 you know, I had Paul George's the next forward up for me. He 472 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:45,920 was tough. He was after Zion for me. Yeah, but you can 473 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:47,240 take just walking stick because we have the same two players here. And I 474 00:32:47,279 --> 00:32:52,599 think I'll briefly say, if you want to leave Lebron off because he missed 475 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:57,079 twenty six games with the total with that ankle injury, I kind of get 476 00:32:57,079 --> 00:32:59,960 it, but he was for me. I don't think it was a Sea 477 00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:02,759 premonial award. When he was in the MVP race, he was legitimately in 478 00:33:02,799 --> 00:33:07,559 consideration for that award when he went down, and he was so good this 479 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:10,480 year, even on defense, that I don't know how you don't he would 480 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,920 have. I thought it was going to be before we ended up missing so 481 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,720 much time. After the Angklan, she was like, oh, there's no 482 00:33:15,759 --> 00:33:17,279 way he gets bumped off of first, And I was like, you know 483 00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,519 what, but there's no way he gets bumped off of second. I had 484 00:33:20,559 --> 00:33:22,680 trouble knocking him down to third, but you almost had to because he missed 485 00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440 like thirty three percent of it, more than thirty three percent of the season. 486 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,440 Yeah, I totally get it if you do want to leave Lebron off. 487 00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:36,839 And I really really hate using the Look how bad the team was in 488 00:33:36,839 --> 00:33:40,039 his absence, you know, like the classic case being like the Indianapolis Colts 489 00:33:40,039 --> 00:33:45,079 when Andrew Luck retired and suddenly it was like, can we give MVP to 490 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:49,759 a retired player? I just I hate that argument, But look at how 491 00:33:49,799 --> 00:33:55,519 bad the Lakers were without Lebron James. Yeah, I I that's the that's 492 00:33:55,519 --> 00:33:59,759 the argument is their half court offense is still entirely I mean their offense and 493 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,160 they're half court offense, though falls off a cliff. It becomes drippy, 494 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,239 droopy mush when he does not on the court. That's a nod towards something 495 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,400 maybe maybe people who are listening Whilso or No. But yeah, I couldn't 496 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:15,239 leave him. I couldn't. I felt weird leading him off second and I 497 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,159 thought about putting him over Kauai. But you look at just a playing time 498 00:34:17,159 --> 00:34:22,840 discrepancyne It's like, you can't do that. It's Kali. Yeah. Julius 499 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:29,400 Randall, We've talked about his most improved player case a lot. We've said 500 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:34,480 that we think he should be in the MVP discussion potentially as a top five 501 00:34:34,519 --> 00:34:37,719 candidate, certainly not to actually win the award, but on the ballot. 502 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:43,719 Nonetheless, if you've watched those baseline fall away jumpers that he's made, and 503 00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:49,760 how he sparked kind of a moribund New York offense, the defensive improvement, 504 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,800 the improvement as a passer, the energy, the culture change that he's sparked, 505 00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:59,639 how do you leave him off? Zion Williamson has been such an exciting 506 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:05,639 player he is the Pelicans already at this point. Paul George just a phenomenal 507 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,239 season when he was healthy. You know, I've called him one of the 508 00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:13,760 more underrated players in the league now because his playoff reputation somehow supersedes the level 509 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:21,119 he plays at. He's amazing. But Julius Randall totally reinvigorated a down to 510 00:35:21,199 --> 00:35:24,440 the dumps franchise, carried it to a top four seed in the Eastern Conference, 511 00:35:25,039 --> 00:35:30,039 played at a near MVP level. You can't leave him off, no, 512 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:35,119 and it's there was just this material change in his game, making smarter, 513 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,000 more difficult passes. And the other thing for me too, he made 514 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,800 more step back threes this year that he did in his previous I think six 515 00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:45,599 seasons combined seventeen to forty one on step back threes. I know he's taking 516 00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:50,480 the baseline jumpers. Those are different play data shots player, excuse me, 517 00:35:50,519 --> 00:35:54,039 tracking data shots seventeen of forty one, which is on step back threes. 518 00:35:54,079 --> 00:35:59,639 That's wild. I was surprised when I've looked that only fifty three percent of 519 00:35:59,639 --> 00:36:02,920 his made baskets came unassistant. Doesn't that surprise you because it feels like it 520 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,440 feels like it should be way higher. It feels like it should be more 521 00:36:06,519 --> 00:36:09,639 like one hundred and five percent. But his level of importance to the Knicks 522 00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:14,880 offense is just through the roof. And when it came to I don't necessarily 523 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:20,599 think he's more important to the Knicks on offense than Zion is the Pelicans, 524 00:36:20,639 --> 00:36:24,079 but I do think he can do more things as both a passer and the 525 00:36:24,119 --> 00:36:28,320 scope of his shots just because Zion he doesn't need. I'm not saying he 526 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,360 needs more variants in his game, and we've talked about there's more directionality to 527 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,840 it than just going straight towards the rim. Still, there's just a wider 528 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:37,920 there's there's more in his arsenal to do. And then with Paul George, 529 00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:42,159 for me, it just came down to Julius Randall was responsible for more of 530 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,519 the offensive share to New York than Paul George wasn't you know. And look, 531 00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:49,880 Paul George, it was tough to He was so good this year, 532 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:52,480 so incredibly good, and I can't believe he became such a meme. I 533 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,880 remember when he signed this extension and people were just like shocked that they gave 534 00:36:57,000 --> 00:36:59,400 him that much, and it was like, I know, He's had some 535 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,639 bad playoff stretches, but Paul George in the regular season, even leave it 536 00:37:02,639 --> 00:37:07,119 at that, is a top fifteen to twenty player hands down. I think 537 00:37:07,199 --> 00:37:09,719 you're selling him short when you say it that way. He didn't make All 538 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,079 NBA, so it can't be selling can't be selling him too short, right, 539 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:20,320 That's fair. But I guess when I do those player rankings, it's 540 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,480 taking more than just the single season into account. There's it's projection and hindsight 541 00:37:25,559 --> 00:37:29,880 when you're doing overall player rankings. Though, I would say Paul George is 542 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:35,360 definitively a top twenty players, but also Paul George probably makes the top fifteen. 543 00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:39,960 If we're throwing positions out of the out of the window, I think, 544 00:37:40,159 --> 00:37:44,280 I think to me, Paul, I view Paul George Moore as a 545 00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:49,639 top ten to fifteen player than fifteen to twenty. Maybe we're just splitting hairs. 546 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,840 I'm probably with you. I'm just looking at who would be you know 547 00:37:52,039 --> 00:37:55,400 a lot of the guards, maybe specifically this year, would you bounce in 548 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,559 favor of him? Yeah, that would be that would be the third team 549 00:37:59,599 --> 00:38:02,599 guards, the third team center for me, because I took the low hanging 550 00:38:02,639 --> 00:38:07,000 fruit the NBA offered. That's right. So you're a third team center is 551 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,280 Bam Autobio with a shout to Clint Capella. I have Rudy Gobert. It 552 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,880 had to be Bam if you were going to structure your ballot the way they 553 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,119 did it. And I have Rudy Gobert because I didn't put two centers on 554 00:38:19,119 --> 00:38:22,440 one team, so he I think Rudy Gobert, by the way, has 555 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,360 a case over Joel Embiid just based off the minutes he played this year. 556 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,239 But Joel Embid is just so dominant on offense. Even though Rudy Gobert is 557 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:31,440 good on offense, Joel Embiad is just dominant. I think I still have 558 00:38:32,159 --> 00:38:35,400 I don't. I'm not sure it's that close. Like if we're talking about 559 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,960 Embiad as a potential runner up in the Defensive Player of the Year race and 560 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:42,480 then his offense is just gonna blow Rudy Gobert's offense out of the water. 561 00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:45,320 Underrated as it may be, well, that's the reasoning. But I'm saying 562 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,639 if you're I'm independent of those discussions, if we were talking about just because 563 00:38:49,639 --> 00:38:52,719 those are colored by the fact that we had those discussions, right, But 564 00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:54,159 like, if you're looking at this, I think you could. It wouldn't 565 00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:58,639 shock me if we see Himbid make third team and Golbert makes the second teams. 566 00:38:58,639 --> 00:39:00,960 I don't agree with it. I'm just saying could be close. I'm 567 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,920 gonna be totally shocked, especially since he's foward eligible. So let me run 568 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,079 through my final rankings really quickly. I'm gonna go buy positions now that we've 569 00:39:08,079 --> 00:39:12,960 wrapped it up. My first team guards were Steph and Dame. My second 570 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,440 team guards were Devin Booker and Chris Paul. My third team guards were Kyrie 571 00:39:15,519 --> 00:39:20,760 and Bradley Beal. My first team forwards were Luca, don Chich and Janis. 572 00:39:21,119 --> 00:39:23,880 My second team forwards were Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. My third team forwards 573 00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:29,159 were Lebron and Julius Randall. My first team center was my second team center 574 00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,679 was Embid, and my third team center was Rudy Gilbert. All right. 575 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:37,960 My first team guards were Steph and Luca. Second team guards Dame and CP 576 00:39:38,199 --> 00:39:45,800 three third team guards James Harden and Russell Westbrook. First team forwards with heavy 577 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:53,000 air quotes Jannis and Joel Embid. Second team forwards Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. 578 00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:58,639 Third team forwards Lebron and Julius Randall. Remove the air quotes now, first 579 00:39:58,639 --> 00:40:01,159 team center is Yoka, Second team is Gobert, Third team is out of 580 00:40:01,159 --> 00:40:05,719 Bio and then my honorable mention team, my fourth team, whatever you want 581 00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,159 to call it, would be Kyrie Irving, Bradley Beale, Zion Williamson, 582 00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:14,000 Paul George, and Clint Capella. So I would have had Bam, Zion 583 00:40:14,079 --> 00:40:17,039 and Paul George, Russell Westbrook, and then I had Trey Young. That 584 00:40:17,159 --> 00:40:21,800 was the toughest guard cut for me. I don't think he's gotten enough. 585 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:25,079 Thank you. I appreciate that he's really good. I know the floater wasn't 586 00:40:25,119 --> 00:40:29,920 falling for large part of the year, but he's just still a He's a 587 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,559 mind fuck when you watch him playoffers. If you're a defender, I just 588 00:40:31,599 --> 00:40:35,840 don't know what you're supposed to do against him. Still, so oh, 589 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:37,599 I mean, you don't have to tell me twice. But for me, 590 00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:43,519 the reasoning is that the Hawks rise did not coincide with availability from Trey Young. 591 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:50,079 It coincided with Bogdanovitch getting healthier, It coincided with Clint Cappella getting healthier. 592 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,800 How look at the coaching change. Look the actual toughest cut here for 593 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:55,880 me, By the way, Jason tam I didn't know what to do with 594 00:40:57,280 --> 00:40:59,599 when you're looking at the fourth team cuts, he was the one that I 595 00:40:59,639 --> 00:41:00,559 had lived. I didn't make a fifth team, but then I had, 596 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:06,119 next to Zion and Paul George, I have Jason Tatum wts. I think 597 00:41:06,159 --> 00:41:08,599 it's just like playing game doesn't count, but he was. Any who wants 598 00:41:08,599 --> 00:41:13,039 to make that argument, there's just it feels like there's a limitation on his 599 00:41:13,079 --> 00:41:16,480 shot selection, where it's he can do all the things people want him to 600 00:41:16,519 --> 00:41:20,760 do, but he doesn't always get to the rim. He can bail out 601 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,239 on his drives too often. And where you look at Devin Booker and Chris 602 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,519 Paul, they're so deliberate with the mid range jumpers they're taking. He just 603 00:41:27,559 --> 00:41:31,199 feel more haphazard and I just don't, you know, splitting hairs again. 604 00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:35,599 But that's why Tatum. But I just felt like he deserved a will mention 605 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:39,159 some form because he was spectacular this year. I'm glad you mentioned that. 606 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,920 I think that about does it for us, though correct, they're rare under 607 00:41:43,920 --> 00:41:46,239 an hour episode. We tried to make it in under thirty five minutes, 608 00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:51,840 but it's us, so whatever. Guys, please remember a rate. Guys, 609 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,480 gals, people in general, aliens, anyone from other planets listening to 610 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:58,119 this please please, pretty please remember to rate, review, Subscribe to this 611 00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:00,760 podcast wherever you get them, help us out of town down every episode. 612 00:42:01,039 --> 00:42:05,840 Follow us on social media at Hardwood Knox. We're on YouTube, YouTube dot 613 00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:12,880 com search Hardwood Knox. Follow the Sportsmath Network at the Sports Underscore the Underscore 614 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,639 Sports Underscore Math on Twitter. Until next time, we will you with a 615 00:42:15,679 --> 00:42:22,280 shout out to the one the only first Team All NBA forward, forward Joel 616 00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:36,920 Ay. Now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with 617 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:43,400 the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment. 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