1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:02,919 Great. Okay, that's good, so I don't have to the fact that 2 00:00:02,919 --> 00:00:09,199 I don't know who is another problem? Excellent. Ask not what your country 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:14,240 can do for you, Ask what you can do for your country, mister 4 00:00:14,359 --> 00:00:21,800 Gorbachev. Tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long and 5 00:00:21,839 --> 00:00:25,640 Peter Robinson. I'm James Linnacks. Today we talked to Jack Ryan about why 6 00:00:25,719 --> 00:00:30,199 you maybe don't need to own a home. So let Sapersel's a podcast. 7 00:00:30,399 --> 00:00:35,759 In a brilliant move, you're in closing arguments. Simpson attorney Johnny Cochrane put 8 00:00:35,799 --> 00:00:40,119 on the nitcap. Prosecutors say OJ war the night he committed the murders, 9 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,039 although OJ may have heard his case when he suddenly blurted out, Hey, 10 00:00:44,079 --> 00:00:49,280 easy with that. That's my lucky stabbing hat. It's no disguise, it 11 00:00:49,399 --> 00:00:54,320 makes no sense, it doesn't fit. If it doesn't fit, you must 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,719 acquit. Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast. This happens to be number 13 00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:03,439 six hundred and eighty seven. Wow, next week six hundred and eighty eight, 14 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,480 And I hope I'm going to be there. And I wasn't there last 15 00:01:07,519 --> 00:01:12,439 week for the famous six eighty six because I was off in Florida rare peregrination 16 00:01:12,519 --> 00:01:15,879 to another part of the world for me. Of course, Rob Long, 17 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:18,879 who's with us, bounces all over the planet constantly. We never know where 18 00:01:18,879 --> 00:01:23,719 he's from. I believe today you are in one of the directions that attends 19 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,920 Palm Beach, right, I am. I'm in West Palm today, West 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,640 Palm Beach. And what is it? Just west and north and east and 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,640 south the rest of it? Well, this Palm and the others. Palm 22 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:38,000 Beach is an island which is sort of off. You know. You take 23 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,640 a couple of a couple, I think the three bridges from West Palm to 24 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,680 Palm Beach island, so we will say Palm Beach. What they really mean 25 00:01:42,760 --> 00:01:47,359 to say is Palm Beach Island, but they don't. And West Palm is 26 00:01:47,359 --> 00:01:52,599 sort of the mainland half of that considerably cheaper. And if you're if you're 27 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:59,159 here a fundraising for a certain thing called Ricochet, you stay in West Palm, 28 00:01:59,159 --> 00:02:00,799 but the people you meet are in Palm Beach. Would be get so 29 00:02:00,879 --> 00:02:05,519 if you were to, if you were to map the status of the Hamptons 30 00:02:05,599 --> 00:02:08,960 onto the Palms, how would it work. Southampton is Palm Beach and West 31 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,479 Palm's, Bridge Hampton. How does it all work? Yeah, that's a 32 00:02:12,479 --> 00:02:14,639 really good que I don't know. I think West Palm would be like, 33 00:02:15,199 --> 00:02:21,680 yeah, Bridge Hampton maybe, or water Mill. You know. But but 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,439 you never have to do that because it's the same people. So you you 35 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,319 one place is empty while the other's full. They never falls. The time, 36 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:32,199 I was at dinner last night and I was by myself, and I 37 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:38,759 was sitting there having enjoying my my quiet little you know, one of the 38 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,400 joys of travel is that you get to like sit at a nice restaurant and 39 00:02:40,439 --> 00:02:43,439 have a nice meal and have a glass of wine and read your book. 40 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:46,599 But the people of the table next to me was you know, they were 41 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:54,080 every third word was either Saint Bart's or Nantucket or Hampton, And I thought, 42 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,000 oh my god, these are I mean, you know, come on, 43 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,759 Rob, this is the crowd to which you and I have inspired all 44 00:03:00,039 --> 00:03:02,599 decent people. But yeah, how about give it us some money? How 45 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:06,199 about that? That would be nice keep this thing going. But you know 46 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:08,919 that's a separate issue. I just I just googled Palm Beach to see exactly 47 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:12,520 where was the whole island thing and the rest of it, and the first 48 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,800 thing that my I didn't google it, actually I Duck duck go did because 49 00:03:15,159 --> 00:03:19,680 I'm done with Google. And the first first thing that came up in the 50 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,039 map when I zoomed out, I was surprised was Palm Beach, Canada. 51 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,199 There is a Palm Beach, Canada, and I'm expecting that it probably isn't 52 00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:30,759 as nice as the one you went. It's odd. In the Mexican resort 53 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:32,879 where I just was, the place was absolutely infested witha with Canadians. I 54 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:37,120 don't know why, but of all sorts. You know, one guy would 55 00:03:37,199 --> 00:03:39,120 be a heart doctor, the other guy would be a pharmaceutical rep. The 56 00:03:39,199 --> 00:03:42,240 other guy would be a plumber, and that was great. I had the 57 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,800 best conversation with the plumbers. They just lots of them, the nicest people. 58 00:03:46,879 --> 00:03:50,840 I love Canadians. They are absolutely nice people. And you get them 59 00:03:50,879 --> 00:03:53,719 going and you sort of probe them a little bit to find out where they 60 00:03:53,759 --> 00:03:58,319 are about certain things, and you start gently with something like, you know, 61 00:03:58,599 --> 00:04:03,919 if I was Canadian, I would have not been completely and utterly opposed 62 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:09,120 to the truckers, and so that sort of lets them know where you are. 63 00:04:09,639 --> 00:04:12,400 And then after a couple of drinks or so and they really start to 64 00:04:12,479 --> 00:04:15,560 unburden. They're saying, well, of course, Justin Trudeau was Castor's son. 65 00:04:15,639 --> 00:04:20,720 Everybody knows that. Heh it was fun. I predict trouble for mister 66 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:27,600 Trudeau based on my polling of the Canadians. You know, it's up there 67 00:04:27,639 --> 00:04:30,160 with talking to your taxi cab driver to get the feel of a city. 68 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:33,199 But there we are different demographic though, some so some and so so. 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:38,279 Here we are, here we are. And a surprise note this week O 70 00:04:38,399 --> 00:04:41,759 J. Simpson died. I think the Norm McDonald joke that I saw on 71 00:04:41,759 --> 00:04:45,720 the internet was him at an anchor desk saying And in a stunning development, 72 00:04:45,759 --> 00:04:47,839 the family of O. J. Simpson has announced that he will be buried 73 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:53,319 in the same coffin as his wife's killer. Norm did ride that one and 74 00:04:53,480 --> 00:05:00,839 was absolutely unsparing in his frankness with which he addressed well. The other thing 75 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,160 assembled this week that surfaced in the wake of that was an interview with a 76 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:06,279 jury member who said, oh, yeah, yeah, he did it. 77 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:12,759 He did it, but but we let him off because you generally balanced the 78 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:17,480 scales, so to speak. I don't want to revisit the whole thing. 79 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,120 Everybody knows what it was, what he did, and what the ramifications were. 80 00:05:21,879 --> 00:05:26,120 But well, how did you feel when you when you go ahead, 81 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,800 go ahead? Wrong? Well it first of all, does everybody, I 82 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,399 mean, you know, I have some bad news for you. Everybody. 83 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:35,240 You're an old you're an old man. This is thirty years ago, and 84 00:05:35,319 --> 00:05:40,439 it seems it seems sort of quaint now when you think about it, that 85 00:05:40,519 --> 00:05:46,120 the kind of world exploded and went insane because a celebrity, uh murdered his 86 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:54,199 wife and a waiter. And I have some I we had with some pretty 87 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:56,680 dark jokes about it from those of us who are living in LA at the 88 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,879 time. Murders wipe of the waiter, and they played the race card in 89 00:06:00,879 --> 00:06:06,399 his defense and he got away with it, and people, just the whole 90 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:12,480 country watched. It's important to remember this is nineteen it's a mid nineteen nineties. 91 00:06:12,519 --> 00:06:16,639 Nineteen ninety five is the year of the trial. No Twitter, Internet 92 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:23,959 still nascent. People still watched that thing called television, and the OJ Simpson 93 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,879 trial was carried by every television outlet NonStop, hour after hour. The whole 94 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,000 country watched it in a way that the whole country may have been following the 95 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:38,120 Lindberg trial but I can't think of any other anything else, certainly nothing since 96 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,800 the Internet, it seems. I think it's likely to be impossible to get 97 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:45,120 the whole country gripped by one crime story the way it was. Then. 98 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,600 My theory is that that act of jury nullification, when the whole country saw 99 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:55,680 the same evidence, and I saw poll the other day that even fifty percent, 100 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,600 that fifty seven what was it there was a Democrat. It was not 101 00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:05,680 good for relations between the races because it was eighty some percent of whites thought 102 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,720 he was guilty, fifty seven percent of black still majority. And then the 103 00:07:10,839 --> 00:07:18,040 jury nullification. My theory is that was the moment something snapped everybody who watched 104 00:07:18,079 --> 00:07:25,800 that it's impossible to trust the justice system in the United States in the same 105 00:07:25,839 --> 00:07:30,399 way. Again, I have the feeling that that was a moment some basic 106 00:07:30,519 --> 00:07:35,399 faith, unthinking, unquestioning faith and institutions ended and can't be put back together 107 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,399 again. Huh, tell me I'm being too grim. Well, no, 108 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:42,720 I think that's interesting. I was going to say, kind of the a 109 00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:47,319 parallel point with they actually maybe cause an effect in some way that the O. 110 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:51,720 J. Simpson trial created the idea of having the TV on all day 111 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:59,160 during the day at the office, Yes, where its solidified that trend which 112 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:01,879 you'd see now all time. I mean, it's amazing how many you go 113 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,720 to an office and now somebody's always got the news on and it solidified that 114 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:09,839 or the trend that began in a few years before during the Gulf War and 115 00:08:09,879 --> 00:08:11,959 the Gulf War the ft. That's true, That's what I was going to 116 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:16,240 say. That kind of created CNN. That's true. That's true, and 117 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:18,600 then everything else kind of. I mean, then I think the OJA sort 118 00:08:18,639 --> 00:08:24,319 of created like the well, it was court TV, but it's also MSNBC. 119 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:28,399 Did you know before MSNBC was ideological, it was just twenty four to 120 00:08:28,399 --> 00:08:33,200 seven OJ. So there you go. You imagine having it lapsing into a 121 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,919 coma at the end of the trial and then waking up twenty five thirty years 122 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,600 later and turning on the television and there's the Kardashians are the centerpiece of the 123 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:45,679 American culture. I got in trouble once when we were talking about that. 124 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,720 In La and I lived. I used to live around the corner from the 125 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:52,360 restaurant. When I was first moved out, A lived around the corner from 126 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,240 that restaurant. Metsaluna and that was the restaurant where Nicole Simpson went for dinner 127 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,080 and her She left her glasses and the waiter there, Fred Golden, and 128 00:09:01,519 --> 00:09:03,440 walked the walk them. It was like a block and half. She lived 129 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:07,759 a block and a half away. It's hard to think about la but people 130 00:09:07,799 --> 00:09:11,000 walking around. But she just walked her the restaurant and walked him and he 131 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,960 walked there, and that's when Ojay killed her and him and I made the 132 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,840 mistake of saying, well, I've I've eaten it Metsalunas, so you know, 133 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,919 I could see killing the waiter. Oh, but nobody, nobody liked 134 00:09:24,919 --> 00:09:28,320 that. That was the joke that you weren't going to tell five minutes ago. 135 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,480 Yeah, yeah, you know, it's it's no longer too soon. 136 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,440 Somebody mentioned that, uh you know, yes, it did happen an awful 137 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,159 long time ago. But O Jays has been a recent Twitter presence. He's 138 00:09:41,159 --> 00:09:45,039 actually been on Twitter for a while. They got a whole new generation of 139 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,960 people who sort of saw him as a sort of an outlaw figure who bucked 140 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,279 the trends and defied authority and the rest of it, which is insane. 141 00:09:52,039 --> 00:09:56,639 But but yeah, I mean the oddest thing. Well, on the odd 142 00:09:56,720 --> 00:10:01,120 the whole story is odd, but having to jail, having to go to 143 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:05,039 jail for shaking for for shaking down some sort of some guys who had defrauded 144 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:11,559 him in a collectibles uh in Vegas purchase some in Vegas in Vegas, I 145 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:16,960 mean, and then putting out a book called If I Did It, which 146 00:10:18,039 --> 00:10:24,519 which not saying I did I did it, would have got a little something 147 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:28,480 like this, And then what you know, I read yesterday the reason that 148 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,039 the gloves did not fit was because he'd stopped taking his arthritis medicine, which 149 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,919 made his hand swell up. Never knew that really it makes it, And 150 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:39,759 that was one one was one of the stupidest things, of course, that 151 00:10:39,799 --> 00:10:43,279 you possibly could have done, because you put on this glove, you know, 152 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,519 and the guy spends his time clenching his fists beforehand to get the blood 153 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:50,679 there, so it doesn't fit. You must if the glove doesn't fit, 154 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,000 you must have quit, which leads to, you know, the idea of 155 00:10:54,039 --> 00:10:56,679 a of a rhyming passage like that, influencing one of the most consequential history 156 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:00,240 of the nineteen nineties, and subsequently, as Peter said, race relations Center 157 00:11:00,279 --> 00:11:03,200 attit to addow the justice system. Now, wasn't my first experience with jury 158 00:11:03,279 --> 00:11:05,919 nullification. My wife had about of that when she was on a journey in 159 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:11,000 DC. So it happens. But something this large, this naked, this 160 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,360 this flagrant, Yeah, it did do something. So the good news, 161 00:11:13,399 --> 00:11:18,200 maybe, guys, is that our faith, our lack of faith, or 162 00:11:18,279 --> 00:11:22,600 collapse of faith in institutions doesn't really come from COVID. We were at it 163 00:11:22,639 --> 00:11:26,039 twenty five thirty years ago. That's the good thing to take away, wouldn't 164 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:30,440 you say, uh, what else we can I guess I'd say is that 165 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:37,000 the difference is that at that point, everyone's reaction sort of was comforting, 166 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:41,519 right because people were shocked and it was an unbelievable surprise, and everybody felt 167 00:11:41,639 --> 00:11:46,360 perfectly legitimate, too perfectly entitled to say he did it. And he did 168 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:52,000 lose the civil trial later, so there was some version that wasn't justice really, 169 00:11:52,039 --> 00:11:54,519 but there's some version of an understanding that the jury had made a terrible 170 00:11:54,519 --> 00:11:58,720 mistake. The big surprise, of course, was that it seemed like black 171 00:11:58,759 --> 00:12:03,039 people thought it was okay that he got That's what we should have paid attention 172 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:09,480 to in a way that there's a for whatever reason, was the beginning of 173 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:15,799 a real problem between the way that black Americans viewed the justice system of the 174 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:20,519 way the white Americans did, and that I think came well. In La 175 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:26,720 it was a little less it was a little less surprising because in La it 176 00:12:26,919 --> 00:12:31,799 was after the Rodney King right right right, So people are already aware that 177 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,480 there was a big, big problem somehow, and there was no obvious way 178 00:12:35,519 --> 00:12:39,399 to solve it. You know, I was only half half serious when I 179 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,879 said that our lack of faith and the institutions goes back farther than we think, 180 00:12:45,039 --> 00:12:52,519 which you know, you see this great towering institution, like the law, 181 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:54,879 and then you get close to it and you realize it's been hauled up 182 00:12:54,879 --> 00:12:58,080 by bugs for twenty thirty years, which happened to us, not the law, 183 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,639 but you know, in our front yard, the guy came and said, 184 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:05,000 this magnificent tree that you have is actually weighs about four ounces now when 185 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:07,960 you consider, because it's entirely hollow inside, and it's going to go over 186 00:13:09,039 --> 00:13:11,240 with the first wind. So we had it taken down, but I had 187 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,919 to put something back in. What do you do? How do you know 188 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,600 what kind of tree to put in. You know what am I an arborist? 189 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:22,200 What am I? James Kilman? Fast growing trees, My friends, 190 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:26,840 That's what I did. And you know, if this podcast is around for 191 00:13:26,879 --> 00:13:28,960 episode six thousand, I'll be here to tell you how the one I put 192 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:35,679 in grew thrived and towers over and provide shade and home for birds and all 193 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,759 else. Did you know though, the Fast Growing Trees, they're the biggest, 194 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:43,919 the biggest online nursery in the US, with more than ten thousand different 195 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,080 kinds of plants and over two million happy customers in the US plus me. 196 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,279 Yeah, everything you can possibly want. Fruit trees, they got your palm 197 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:52,679 trees, they got your evergreens, houseplants, so much more. The ten 198 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,440 thousand different kinds of plants. Whatever you're interested in, they have it for 199 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,600 you. You can find the perfect fit for your climate and your space. 200 00:14:01,159 --> 00:14:03,799 Fast Growing Trees makes it easy to order online and your plants are shipped directly 201 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,360 to your door in one point two days. And along with their thirty day 202 00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:13,000 alive and thrive guarantee, they offer free plant consultation forever. And this is 203 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:16,559 great. I mean, we put in some bushes a while back, and 204 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,200 I got them from the big box store and I put them in. I 205 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,679 did a good job. I packed in all the nutriments and all the rest 206 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:26,480 of it, but they died. And frankly, when it comes to the 207 00:14:26,519 --> 00:14:28,759 tree on the front, I don't know what to put there exactly, because 208 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:33,960 there's the soil, there's the shade, there's the position, there's this and 209 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,240 that. Well, that's why Fast Growing Trees is great because you know they 210 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:39,440 ask, well, where do you live, what do you want, what 211 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:41,399 do you like, et cetera, and you buy in confidence knowing that it 212 00:14:41,399 --> 00:14:46,679 comes to your door, instead of putting something in the back of your trunk 213 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,360 which gets dirt everywhere, or having to hire somebody you know, to bring 214 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,320 it to your place because you don't have a trunk to put it in. 215 00:14:52,559 --> 00:14:56,159 Comes to your door. I mean that alone, not to send you directly 216 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:01,519 to Fast Growing Trees when you need something to plant. They've got the best 217 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:05,799 deals online up to half off unselected plants, and of the deals and listeners 218 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:09,159 to this show get are you Ready for This? An additional fifteen percent off 219 00:15:09,159 --> 00:15:13,399 their first purchase when using the code Ricochet at the checkout. That's an additional 220 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,519 fifteen percent off at Fast Growing trees dot com using the code ricochet at checkout 221 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:24,399 Fast Growing trees dot com. Code ricochet offers valid for limited time. Spring 222 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,720 only lasts for a little while. Go in. Terms and conditions may apply, 223 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,639 and we do think fast Growing Trees responsoring. This the Ricochet Podcast, 224 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,120 and I'll bring you back to the state of the tree in a little while 225 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:39,039 because I'm sure it's going to grow, thrive and be a lovely, lovely 226 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:41,279 object. I've never seen anything as lovely as a tree. And now we 227 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:46,600 welcome to the show. Jack Ryan. Yes, that Jack Ryan, the 228 00:15:46,639 --> 00:15:50,720 co founder and CEO of Rex Real Estate Quote, which is the digital alternative 229 00:15:50,759 --> 00:15:54,679 to the realtor TM trademark. It's also the co author the soon to be 230 00:15:54,720 --> 00:16:00,279 released Bringing Adam Smith into the American Home, a case again against home ownership. 231 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,399 Hmmm. You can pre order now to get your compy in April sixteenth. 232 00:16:06,039 --> 00:16:07,879 Jack, Welcome to the show. Thanks James. I'm glad to be 233 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:12,200 here this title. I'm right now in the last probably twenty four hours, 234 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,159 and so my wife and I are looking at each other and saying, you 235 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,720 know what, we might want to downsize. Kids gone not coming back, 236 00:16:18,799 --> 00:16:22,120 I mean for Christmas. But you know we have a lot of stuff here, 237 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,440 we should move interest rates behnd you. And it's all predicated on the 238 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,279 idea that, of course we're going to own our home. The idea that 239 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:36,720 we do anything else besides own our home to our generation is practically Bolshevism. 240 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:41,240 So you say, the case against home ownership, that's the American dream, 241 00:16:41,279 --> 00:16:45,200 the pick of fence, the two point five to the dog. What's tell 242 00:16:45,279 --> 00:16:49,399 us what sort of cultural Marxism you're spreading here, Jack James. That is 243 00:16:49,919 --> 00:16:55,159 so funny. But you're the classic case of someone who's probably the Paladan told 244 00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:57,720 for a long time that the eleventh commandment of life is that you're supposed to 245 00:16:57,759 --> 00:17:02,639 own your own home. And there's really no truth to that. I mean, 246 00:17:02,679 --> 00:17:07,079 it's really a by versus least decision like owning a car, or leasing 247 00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:10,079 a car, or renting a car just for a few days, or just 248 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:14,839 ubering, and home ownership is no different. There's no should home ownership you 249 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,720 should look at maybe renting a home, you should maybe look at traveling around 250 00:17:18,759 --> 00:17:25,119 and airbnb from place to place. It really is a question of, you 251 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:30,519 know, an economic decision, it's not an emotional decision that should be made 252 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:33,559 and Unfortunately, I think how I call it, the housing industrial complex has 253 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:38,000 been hectoring people for years, driven by the National Association of Realtors and others, 254 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,759 to say you must own a home. But that's just there's just no 255 00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:47,680 logic to that. But Jack, so, Rob owned a nice house down 256 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:51,240 in Venice Beach for many years and then he sold it and now he's renting. 257 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,960 I own my own home, and this is the first moment I've really 258 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:03,000 been able to feel consistently superior to Rob Long in thirty years. But here's 259 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,200 why I feel superior, because it makes me a better American. Thomas Jefferson, 260 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:12,160 this notion of the small landholder, that ownership gives us a stake in 261 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:15,920 the in the society in our town. Peter, what crops do you raise? 262 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,759 I missed. I missed the moment where you were sorgum, Gary and 263 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:25,000 gentlemen. I attempt to raise grass, but it turns out I raised mostly 264 00:18:25,079 --> 00:18:27,160 crab grass. So, so, Jack, what you're saying here, you've 265 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:33,200 got It's not just the National Association of Realtors who are after you or you're 266 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,880 after them, will come to them in a moment you're attacking Thomas Jefferson, 267 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:41,240 Well, I think Thomas Jefferson on his day, I think that, and 268 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:45,079 this is where he probably went wrong with Adam Smith. You know you probably 269 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,480 he probably raised some crops in the backyard, he was making his shirts on 270 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:52,839 the front porch. Maybe he was probably taking care of his own house. 271 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,680 And Adam Smith said, look, there should be a division of labor. 272 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,880 You should do it you do best. And Peter was kind of just a 273 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,200 amazing about thinking about you, is that not only are you tied owning a 274 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,519 home, so it makes you a mobile, so literally it's hard for you 275 00:19:07,599 --> 00:19:10,720 to move to your highest and best use of all of a sudden someone says, 276 00:19:10,759 --> 00:19:15,200 hey, forget the Hoover Institution, please come to the MIT Free Market 277 00:19:15,279 --> 00:19:21,160 Institute or something. Furthermore, the home ownership is asking you be expert and 278 00:19:21,279 --> 00:19:26,599 something I'm guessing, Peter, you're not expert about, like electrician work, 279 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,240 plumbing, carpentry. Any moment, Peter, that you're thinking about carpentry as 280 00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:34,680 opposed to how to make the world more free is a misuse of your resources. 281 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,680 And I'm just saying that kind of as a broad sense that I think 282 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,279 Thomas Jefferson, if you had thought hard about this, would have said Hey, 283 00:19:41,279 --> 00:19:45,920 if we really want people to be most productive that they can, they 284 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,720 should be able to move to the place that they can find their talents most 285 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:53,839 valued, which means you should be probably mobile. And second, Peter Robinson 286 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:59,319 should spend no time thinking about the plumbing in his house. Yeah, well, 287 00:20:00,079 --> 00:20:02,480 touch a sore point, as it happens, because we're just going through 288 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:06,200 the initial stages of remodeling, and you're quite right, I have no idea 289 00:20:06,279 --> 00:20:07,880 what I'm doing, all right, hepa. You know what's even worse about 290 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:11,839 that? What is that the plumber and electrician and the painters and the remodelers 291 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,920 also know you have known nothing about this topic. That's exactly right. So 292 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,640 they walk in the house and they size you up pretty quickly and not altim 293 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:23,880 are this way at all, But you're the mark Peter Okay, Jack from 294 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:26,400 Today's Wall Street Journal. I'm going to read you a paragraph or two from 295 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,680 the Wall Street Journal and ask you what's up, and then toss you to 296 00:20:30,759 --> 00:20:33,319 rob who I can tell I can tell is gloating at this very moment. 297 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:40,039 Front page front page above the fold story and Today's Wall Street Journal Cost of 298 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:45,880 owning a home soores home ownership affordability fell to its lowest level since the nineteen 299 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,480 eighties last year, as mortgage rates reached a twenty three year high and home 300 00:20:49,519 --> 00:20:55,720 prices set new records. Property taxes and home maintenance costs are climbing. In 301 00:20:55,799 --> 00:20:59,960 much of the country, non mortgage costs, including property taxes, maintenance util 302 00:21:00,039 --> 00:21:03,000 these insurance, make up more than half of home ownership's overall costs. On 303 00:21:03,039 --> 00:21:04,039 and on and on, it goes, what the heck is going on? 304 00:21:06,279 --> 00:21:11,960 Well, you know, one is because there's a lack of supply of electricians 305 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,000 and plumbers and things like that. And the second, of course, somebody 306 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,000 has nothing to do really with housing. It's just the inflation that the administration 307 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:22,839 keeps saying is solved. But then as you saw last month, they went 308 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,000 up again. So part of it is that. Part of it is the 309 00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:30,359 insurance companies have to charge more for the insurance policies. But this kind of 310 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:33,039 goes to the same thing I was saying before is, you know, people 311 00:21:33,039 --> 00:21:37,200 like you and me have to start thinking about all those things. And what 312 00:21:37,319 --> 00:21:40,440 we were doing at REX is taking the brokerage feed is zero and then saying, 313 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:41,519 well, how do you make money at zero? We'll manage the house 314 00:21:41,599 --> 00:21:45,680 for you, Like you can own the house if you want, Peter, 315 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,359 but you should not be the guy who's managing the house. And how can 316 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:52,440 you do that now in the twenty first century. We can put sensors in 317 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,559 the attic and say, hey, Peter, it seems like the humidity in 318 00:21:56,559 --> 00:22:00,839 the attic is up like three standard deviations away from normal, and so we 319 00:22:00,839 --> 00:22:04,000 should probably send someone over there now to fix it before it's a big problem. 320 00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:07,480 The way that you probably find out about it and meet too, by 321 00:22:07,519 --> 00:22:11,720 the way, is there's a growing yellow circle in my ceiling. Yes, 322 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,200 I have a leak. At that point, it's a ten thousand dollars fix. 323 00:22:15,559 --> 00:22:18,160 But if you can pre identify it, and now you can do this 324 00:22:18,240 --> 00:22:21,880 with AI and also with censers in the home. Or guess what, Peter, 325 00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,240 the speed of the air moons your home has gone from one kilometer per 326 00:22:26,279 --> 00:22:30,079 hour to three kilometers per hour. And you're traveling for a wedding or something. 327 00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:34,119 I think there's a door open or window broken or something. We'll send 328 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,880 someone over there. So one thing that should happen, independible on them or 329 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,400 not, is outsourcing the magine the home to somebody else. And some of 330 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:47,240 these costs used to referred to get managed down because you have a professional managing 331 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:49,960 those costs as opposed to people like James and Peter and Robin Jack. So, 332 00:22:51,559 --> 00:22:53,359 Jack, I just wanted to some You have founded Rex Realty. You've 333 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:59,759 not only written a book, but your company, Rex Reality is home management 334 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,960 for the middle class. Is that? What is that the aspiration here? 335 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,640 Well, the aspiration was to take these ridiculous brokerage fees down to zero. 336 00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:11,000 And where that came from, of course Goldman Sachs. We took brokerage fees 337 00:23:11,039 --> 00:23:17,640 for trading shares from twelve cents a share to almost zero, and the same 338 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,680 thing can be done with owning homes, and so we were taking the fees 339 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:22,680 down to zero. How do you take the fees down to the zero and 340 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,880 make money the same way that Schwab does. They manage your cash and invested 341 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,240 just like a bank would do. Well, when you buy a home, 342 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,640 everybody has to get title insurance and escrow policies, and they have to get 343 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,839 home insurance and usually have to get a mortgage. We can do all those 344 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,319 things for a market clearing rate that's you know, very competitive. And then 345 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,839 the six percent fee on a home around where you all live. Is you 346 00:23:47,839 --> 00:23:51,359 know, that's a huge fee. It could be thirty forty fifty sixty thousand 347 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,759 dollars. By the way, Peter, this is the thing is so outrageous 348 00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:57,839 about this whole. I call it a cartel because it is the fees in 349 00:23:57,839 --> 00:24:02,119 the US are three or four times higher than they are in most other developed 350 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:07,359 countries, Like how do they manage that price levitation where the fees in the 351 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:11,440 US are so much higher than they are in the UK. And by the 352 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:15,039 way, just to shock you and all your fellow listeners, this is the 353 00:24:15,079 --> 00:24:18,160 biggest cartel in the US and maybe in the history of the US. And 354 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:23,440 I have data to back this up. So the nash the realtor racket. 355 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,200 If well, I'll go ahead and concede your point by just calling it a 356 00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:33,319 racket. This is one more cozy, interlocking set of political and special interests 357 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:40,519 that you think is about due to be disrupted by technology, and you're attempting 358 00:24:40,559 --> 00:24:42,640 to do it fair summary, yes, yes, And let me give you 359 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,119 just a sense for why this is important to everybody or you know who listens 360 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,480 to your show and podcast. So to give you a sense, there's three 361 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:56,480 trillion dollars of homes traded per year three trillion, and the fee in the 362 00:24:56,559 --> 00:25:00,960 UK is about one and a half percent the fee and the is five and 363 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:06,559 a half percent, So the monopolistic rent is four percent on three trillion dollars, 364 00:25:07,079 --> 00:25:11,839 which is one hundred and twenty billion dollars per year. Now, to 365 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:17,039 put this in context, most economists think that Opak raised the price of gas 366 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:22,680 lean by fifty to seventy five cents per gallon one hundred and fifty billion gallons 367 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,400 of gas as sold in the US each year. So a O pack taking 368 00:25:26,559 --> 00:25:30,359 middle class Americans is seventy five billion dollars fifty billion dollars. This is almost 369 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:36,119 double the size of Opeck. So what I called the cartel, and by 370 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:41,240 the way, the home seventy five out the last seventy seven years, the 371 00:25:41,279 --> 00:25:45,599 amount of revenue that has come from to realtors has exceeded the inflation rates, 372 00:25:45,759 --> 00:25:49,839 so the price never goes down. Why is it that only the realtor fees 373 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,640 of all the middle men in the country of the last fifteen years, they're 374 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,960 the only fees that haven't come down. Stockbroker fees have come down ninety percent, 375 00:25:57,079 --> 00:26:02,759 taxi dispatcher fees. Some people might remember travel agents they used to exist. 376 00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:06,720 They got taken out by the Internet. Of everyone's fees are down eighty 377 00:26:07,839 --> 00:26:12,119 except for one. One is levitating above every other middleman's fees. And you 378 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:15,240 know there's strings attached. That doesn't happen in the free market. That's part 379 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:21,039 of letting Adam Smith. In the American home prices do not levitate normally like 380 00:26:21,079 --> 00:26:25,920 that, or increase seventy five But I have seventy seven years, so James 381 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,319 and are still at you, Jack, But I have to let you know. 382 00:26:27,799 --> 00:26:32,480 Rob just sent a text. He's in a hotel in West Palm and 383 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:34,319 there's a fire alarm that just went off in the hotel, So listeners. 384 00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:41,160 Rob will return when he's permitted back into the building. So Jack, why 385 00:26:41,319 --> 00:26:45,480 is it that realtors? I mean one argument. I've talked to people here 386 00:26:45,519 --> 00:26:52,440 in Silicon Valley who share this basic feeling that the National Association of Realtors is, 387 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:56,119 in one way or another, a cartel. But it's very, very 388 00:26:56,160 --> 00:27:00,480 hard to take on because when it comes to it goes the art argument. 389 00:27:00,559 --> 00:27:08,160 Selling a house or buying a house is a very personal decision and be a 390 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:14,920 very rare event in the lives of most people, so they want someone who 391 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,240 knows the local market. Real estate agents tend to be extremely good with people. 392 00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:22,440 They tend to be comforting. They tend to make a difficult, often 393 00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:30,000 traumatic set of decisions easier to get through. Uh. And so in some 394 00:27:30,319 --> 00:27:37,240 way they do provide value. Maybe what do you make of that argument? 395 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:38,799 Well, of course they provide value. The question is how much is that 396 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:45,079 value worth? Right? And that's selling for consumer to six percent, right, 397 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,559 right? So you know sometimes the roops, I say I deserve my 398 00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:51,640 six percent? Why because you said so? You know, Peter, I 399 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,000 justserve one hundred thousand dollars to be on your show with you today. The 400 00:27:53,039 --> 00:27:56,039 other thing, the other thing, Jack, this is amazing to me, 401 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,400 is that that six percent fee is totally unaffected by the emmergent urgents of online 402 00:28:00,519 --> 00:28:04,039 sites such as realture dot com. It's a home people who were in the 403 00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:10,960 market to buy or sell their houses educate themselves enormously now by going online, 404 00:28:11,039 --> 00:28:15,559 learning different neighborhoods, learning the market prices. You know as not as much 405 00:28:15,599 --> 00:28:18,400 perhaps as a real state eight, but you know an enormous amount that you 406 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,640 couldn't have known twenty years ago. And yet the real estate agents charged the 407 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,880 same James, share my outrage. Your outrage is shared by me. Yeah, 408 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,559 I wish the fees were lower, I really do. There's because we 409 00:28:30,599 --> 00:28:34,319 are able to inform ourselves and make decisions into the things that realtors used to 410 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:37,240 be able to do only them. Now. My uncle in law is a 411 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,559 realtor, and I'm none of this, none of my stuff for him. 412 00:28:41,599 --> 00:28:42,799 He's a good guy. But he's a good guy, and he found me 413 00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:45,480 in my house. As a matter of fact, he found me in my 414 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,319 house because he just showed up one day and said, hey, I got 415 00:28:47,359 --> 00:28:48,359 a client and wants to buy your house. And I said, well, 416 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:53,240 I live here, so what now? And we drove around for it, 417 00:28:53,799 --> 00:28:56,559 drove around for a day, and he had in his head just this sort 418 00:28:56,559 --> 00:29:00,880 of magic compendium of all the places, and he found the house where I 419 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,359 live now, and I was so struck by it that I made an offer 420 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,000 on the spot. My day was completely turned around in the course of two 421 00:29:07,039 --> 00:29:10,480 or three hours, simply because a realtor decided to be proactive to use a 422 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:14,359 hated word and dynamite me out of my situation. That's irrelevant to what I'm 423 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:15,759 about to say, I'm just telling you where I'm coming from. One of 424 00:29:15,759 --> 00:29:18,279 the reasons though, that I put the money down on the spot, was 425 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,720 when I looked at this place, I said, I want my family to 426 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:26,599 grow up here. I want to be carried down the stairs here when I'm 427 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,319 dead. This is my place I want. James lives in a beautiful old 428 00:29:30,359 --> 00:29:34,799 house jack In with a beautiful suburb with a preposterous lawn that in that you 429 00:29:34,839 --> 00:29:40,119 don't find in a city such as Minneapolis. And when I walk out of 430 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:44,119 my porch and I behold this place, I have a feeling of ownership. 431 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,319 I have a feeling of connection to it that would not be there if I 432 00:29:47,359 --> 00:29:48,720 was renting it to somebody, I just wouldn't. And if I look around 433 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,519 at all the houses in my neighborhood and said, what if black Rock owned 434 00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,279 all of these places, it would be a different place. Because everyone who's 435 00:29:55,319 --> 00:29:59,720 come here is put down roots and is committed to where we are. And 436 00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:02,519 yet, yes, we have to call in somebody every day. You know, 437 00:30:02,519 --> 00:30:04,759 when something isn't done. I'll give you an example. This morning, 438 00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:08,160 I had a guy come by and tune up my boiler or just give it 439 00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:11,799 a just give it a look. Still, you know figured it out, 440 00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:14,640 and that was that time that I spent getting him in the door and doing 441 00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,119 all the rest of it. Yes, it was not time that I would 442 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:22,599 have spent doing anything else. But there's a series of there's an idiotic decision 443 00:30:22,599 --> 00:30:26,000 that was made by the people who lived there previously when they chose a particular 444 00:30:26,039 --> 00:30:29,319 fastener to close the doors. They're German made, They're quite precise, but 445 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,160 they have a plastic element that breaks a lot, and so I have to 446 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,319 install them a lot. Would it be easier for me to call out my 447 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,960 landlord and say, come, hey, come and fix this. Yes? 448 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,319 Do I have a sense of accomplishment I get every time by taking that out 449 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,079 fitting it in, working the screws, knowing exactly how it works. Yes. 450 00:30:45,599 --> 00:30:49,160 Do I have a connection to this thing because I have done the plumbing, 451 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:53,039 because I have figured out the electricity. It makes me more of a 452 00:30:55,279 --> 00:30:57,799 more of an American man to know and have these skill sets as opposed to 453 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,519 having to call somebody, could you please come over and do this, knowing 454 00:31:00,519 --> 00:31:04,240 that at any moment if it struck them, I am out of there. 455 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,079 Because they want to sit, because they want to hire, they want to 456 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:12,119 rend it to somebody for somebody else. I am at my home because I 457 00:31:12,119 --> 00:31:15,319 own it, and nobody's going to take it away, unless, of course, 458 00:31:15,319 --> 00:31:17,640 I don't pay my property taxes, in which case I'm out. But 459 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,240 you know what I mean. Yeah, you're saying you get an emotional benefit 460 00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:23,359 from owning the home because you've become a man's man by you know, fixing 461 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,599 things and all that, like a true dartmouth man. Peter, Yes, 462 00:31:26,759 --> 00:31:32,160 exactly. But I see my father looking over my shoulder every time, every 463 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,799 time the gardner comes to mow our lawn. I hear my father saying, 464 00:31:34,839 --> 00:31:38,319 what what you should be You're come on, it's your house. You should 465 00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:42,160 be doing that. This is, this is, this is a well well 466 00:31:42,559 --> 00:31:45,279 so so. So I'm not saying that no one should know in their own 467 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,079 home. I'm just saying, look at it objectively, look at like anything 468 00:31:48,079 --> 00:31:52,200 else you do, rent versus by decision, and see if the you know, 469 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,839 on top of that, just beside the economics, see if the mind 470 00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:00,240 share it takes from you as well as the services as you get. If 471 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,839 you get enjoyment from a terrific you know, by your home, If not, 472 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,680 you should probably not own the home. Jack what happened. Because I 473 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,200 didn't know that we would be interviewing you. I certainly didn't know you were 474 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,160 working on a book, but so I didn't pay too much attention to the 475 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:21,240 story. But the National Association of Realtors has lost a series of cases in 476 00:32:21,319 --> 00:32:23,319 court, or they've gotten scared by some series of cases in court, and 477 00:32:23,359 --> 00:32:27,200 they've made some kind of concession. Can you explain the state of play? 478 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,440 Yes, I can, so, I think mostly because I'm runn around to 479 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,119 well, who knows why. But anyway, you know, because of what 480 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:40,799 of our argument that these fees are ridiculous and make no sense. In the 481 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:46,680 twenty first century, a number of class action lawyers said that we're going to 482 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:52,359 stew on behalf of all these people bought homes in Missouri and sold homes because 483 00:32:52,359 --> 00:32:55,160 the fee has been inflayed by four percent. Take theme of all the homes 484 00:32:55,160 --> 00:33:00,200 that we sold, and that's what you owes cartel for just Missouri. And 485 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:04,480 anyway, they won the lawsuit. The jury is out for all of two 486 00:33:04,559 --> 00:33:07,880 hours, which is really a short time. They basically went out for a 487 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,279 hot dog, came back and said guilty. And the return to Verk of 488 00:33:09,319 --> 00:33:15,559 one point seven billion dollars, which is then tripled under antitrust law. So 489 00:33:15,839 --> 00:33:21,599 that was just one state. So that put the fear of every reeltor out 490 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,039 there that oh boy, this deal is coming to an end. Now there's 491 00:33:24,039 --> 00:33:27,799 another set of law. There's another loss at out there, which is ours, 492 00:33:28,319 --> 00:33:31,839 because we were going around our MLS as a competitor. So there was 493 00:33:31,839 --> 00:33:36,319 one set of lawsuits which are buyers and sellers at homes and paid way too 494 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:40,079 much because of what I call the cartel. And then the second is us, 495 00:33:40,119 --> 00:33:45,079 the only firm went around the cartel to trade homes off the MLS, 496 00:33:45,119 --> 00:33:50,559 which we did very successfully, and then Zillow joined the National Association of Realtors 497 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:53,680 and kicked us off all the websites. One of the rules of the many 498 00:33:53,799 --> 00:33:59,559 rules that create this monopoly pricing is that if you are not a member of 499 00:33:59,599 --> 00:34:06,480 the NO and the MLS's then they cannot put you on the same web pages 500 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,800 as those homes that are just a moment. NAAR stands for National Association of 501 00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:15,320 Realtors and MLS is the multiple Listing services. All right, yeah, sorry, 502 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,519 yes, exactly right. I'm glad you said that. Anyway, So 503 00:34:19,559 --> 00:34:24,239 the National Association of Realtors it's a trade group. It's a trade group that 504 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,480 set the rules of competition among its members. What other trade group in the 505 00:34:28,519 --> 00:34:32,159 United States is able to set the terms of competition upon which its members can 506 00:34:32,199 --> 00:34:36,360 compete. I'm not aware of any. I don't think anyone can. But 507 00:34:36,519 --> 00:34:39,800 they have all these rules about how you're allowed to sell a home. They 508 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,840 make your head hurt. There's so many of them. I can go through 509 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:46,239 many of them with you if you want. But the kind of way to 510 00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:52,519 cut that, Gordian knot like Alexander the Great, is just a No trade 511 00:34:52,519 --> 00:34:58,639 group can set any rules that set the terms of competition. By the way, 512 00:34:58,679 --> 00:35:02,239 one of the missions of the National Association of Realtors is to enhance the 513 00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:07,280 profitability of its members, and you're putting that group in charge of setting competition. 514 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,400 Get that explains why the fees are four times higher in the US and 515 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,559 the UK. Right, So this is a it's a big deal. By 516 00:35:16,559 --> 00:35:21,599 the way, Peterson's here at the Hoover Institute and Saint James, et cetera. 517 00:35:22,159 --> 00:35:24,840 It doesn't stop with one hundred and twenty billion dollars of takings. You 518 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,920 know, as James, you are saying you do it yourself. Oftentimes, 519 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:35,440 but guests whose jobs cluster around the purchase and sale of homes, plumbers, 520 00:35:35,599 --> 00:35:38,519 electricians, carpenters, painters, their jobs are being suppressed, the wages of 521 00:35:38,599 --> 00:35:45,360 being suppressed because these high transaction fees reduce the number of transactions. By the 522 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:49,119 way, there's a big issue of housing affordability in California that I read about, 523 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,119 huge, huge, right, So there's this five percent fee on top 524 00:35:53,159 --> 00:35:57,679 of the value of the house. Let's not go into the time being, 525 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,920 the inelasticity or elasticity of demand and who pays incidents of attacks. But on 526 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,840 top of that there's the not the normal margin for a home builder is seven 527 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,719 or eight percent on their revenues. If you took out the if you took 528 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:14,519 out that five percent fee, it goes to thirteen percent. All of a 529 00:36:14,519 --> 00:36:17,519 sudden, now the margins the home builder are gone up by sixty seventy percent. 530 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,599 How many more homes get built when all of a sudden your return on 531 00:36:22,599 --> 00:36:25,239 investment goes by fifty percent. So I really think if we take this cartel 532 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,320 and just reduce the fees to what we're trying to do with just zero, 533 00:36:29,599 --> 00:36:34,239 then you probably have a ten percent reduction in the cost of housing. And 534 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,840 by the way, the next thing, Peter, is that forty percent of 535 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,960 CPI is rent and mortgage rents also go down by ten percent because someone's got 536 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,719 to buy that house to rent it out, or buy that town home with 537 00:36:46,159 --> 00:36:51,280 the four units in it to rent it out. They're also trying to get 538 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,199 their ROI up, so they have to tack on their rental rates that five 539 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:58,760 percent fee, and plus there's less homes arounds that price is hired to buy 540 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,960 that home are also five to some pis percent higher. The knock kind of 541 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:06,039 effects from this cartel, as I said before, are huge, and they're 542 00:37:06,039 --> 00:37:08,440 bigger than opek. Well, not to ask a question whose answer I can 543 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,800 presume based on the whole just the conversation here. But you got a point, 544 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:19,360 But what would would it be a greater effect to increase the stock of 545 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,320 housing if zoning, if laws, if environmental requirements and the rest of it 546 00:37:24,599 --> 00:37:29,280 were dialed back a little bit. I mean, it's not either or we 547 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,679 can certainly do both. We're Americans walking chewing gum. But a lot of 548 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:36,000 the reasons that houses don't get built is not because of these fees. It's 549 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:38,280 maybe that's a consideration, but it seems to a lot of the people that 550 00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:42,239 I've talked to it has to do with zoning, environmental regulations. That's what 551 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,719 keeps putting the cost up, and the fact that because it is so expensive 552 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,920 to build some of these things, they have to build something big that doesn't 553 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,800 qualify as affordable. I mean, all houses are affordable at some point, 554 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:57,800 but there's no incentive to build the small stuff like we used to. I 555 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,280 mean, like we had post war right now, what we need are potato 556 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,519 fields to be turned into hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of thousands of those tiki 557 00:38:07,559 --> 00:38:12,039 taking little boxes that all the little boomer children hated. But that's what we 558 00:38:12,079 --> 00:38:16,719 need. If you had to wave a magic wand and say, either we 559 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:23,519 get what you want, or we get an economic climate that is more positive, 560 00:38:23,599 --> 00:38:29,920 more averse to less averse to bowling the burdening them with regulation. Which 561 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,679 would you take, he said, to answer leading question to which you know 562 00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:35,239 the answer, Well, I don't know if I know the answer. Like 563 00:38:36,079 --> 00:38:38,440 in Texas, I'll take the reduction of the fee of the fees, because 564 00:38:38,519 --> 00:38:43,800 aren't as made restrictions on building homes as they are in California right right right 565 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,960 now, in California, I don't know the questions. I don't know because 566 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,079 the restriction the building homes are so horrible. Why the price of home so 567 00:38:50,159 --> 00:38:54,360 high, because you've made the supply almost unmovable and people, you know, 568 00:38:54,639 --> 00:38:58,360 make more money and they move there, et cetera. So of course the 569 00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,320 prop you know, I don't know. I don't. I don't about that 570 00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:02,199 horse race. That's horrible horse race. But in Texas, Alabama, Louisiana, 571 00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:06,760 Florida, I'll take the reduction in the fees because his main restrictions. 572 00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,440 Let me ask you something else. When we talk about rental, for example, 573 00:39:09,519 --> 00:39:13,000 a lot of people, especially those who are downsize on like my wife 574 00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:15,159 myself, say well, maybe we don't need to buy a home, maybe 575 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,400 a condy, maybe leasing a town home is the way to go. And 576 00:39:20,639 --> 00:39:24,920 I will never ever go live in a town home again, because for the 577 00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:29,440 last thirty years I've lived with nobody upstairs. I've lived with nobody on the 578 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,159 other side of the world. I live in a self contained single family house, 579 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:39,400 which is an American archetype. The left hates the single family home, 580 00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:43,719 that's true, and what we found here in Minneapolis, for example, they 581 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:49,719 banned single family housing and there was a attempt by the Minnesota state legislature to 582 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:53,920 force every town in Minnesota to change its zoning laws to accommodate more density, 583 00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:58,679 because density is good. And they have a whole variety of reasons that they 584 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,320 love density. It has to do and mostly it's because the idea of the 585 00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:07,480 atomized nuclear family unity in these rows of levittowns is antithetical to their esthetics, 586 00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:09,719 their politics, and a whole bunch of stuff. So they want us all 587 00:40:10,119 --> 00:40:14,960 in the hives and I hate that. That's one of the reasons that I 588 00:40:15,119 --> 00:40:19,239 like to say that home ownership is good is because it keeps you out of 589 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:22,280 the clutches of these people who want to centralize and control and do the rest 590 00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:27,400 of it. When people when the immigrants come to Minneapolis here, they spread 591 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,719 out it in the first ring suburbs and they buy up all those postwar ramblers 592 00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:35,400 because that, for them is the good life paradise. Yes, so that's 593 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:37,920 all I'm saying. I'm not arguing. I'm not really arguing with you at 594 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:40,320 all, except to make the point that the title of your book offends me 595 00:40:40,559 --> 00:40:45,840 to the core of my marrow. I'm kidding, but it doesn't say don't 596 00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,199 buy home. It says a case against it. Consider the pros. We 597 00:40:50,199 --> 00:40:53,159 don't want people to say, you're like, unilaterally, this isn't ultimotle good 598 00:40:53,679 --> 00:40:59,079 man. They march robotically to buying a home. That's really Jack, Jack 599 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:02,880 act When does what's? When's? What's the publication date of the book and 600 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,480 not so? I think April sixteenth, although I think, okay, so 601 00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:09,599 there's still time. There's still time. I'm going to rewrite your subtitle bringing 602 00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:15,079 Adam Smith into the American Home. Everybody loves that. I mean everybody our 603 00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:17,119 side, James and I love that. Rob, if he ever returns from 604 00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:22,119 his fire alarm, would love that. Your subtitle a case against home ownership. 605 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:27,719 Really, i'm your editor, and I'm going to rewrite that slightly. 606 00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:35,559 It's a case against the crazy, out of date, politically connected cartel that's 607 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:40,360 costing us all billions every year. That's really what your case is against. 608 00:41:40,559 --> 00:41:44,320 Right, Yes, true, Peter, and it's it's true. That's a 609 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:45,199 long way of saying it. So if you if you've a way to stay 610 00:41:45,199 --> 00:41:49,760 its shorter, you know, we're open to suggestions. But the other thing, 611 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,480 too, is the case against is getting ripped off by your realtor. 612 00:41:52,639 --> 00:41:54,480 There, there's your there's your subtype. Okay, it's okay, Well is 613 00:41:54,519 --> 00:41:58,960 that just the realtor. It's also like what I call the housing industrial complex. 614 00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,920 And then the country I know that subsidizes housing well than America does is 615 00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:07,519 China. Like we have this Fannie May, we have Freddie Mack, we 616 00:42:07,599 --> 00:42:10,079 have all this hectoring to own your home. I just saw that the administration 617 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,880 lowered for Fanny Man and Freddie Mack them out. They're going to charge to 618 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:20,480 you know, ensure that mortgage. You know, we all know how it's 619 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,480 going to end. Fier sent me. Every twenty five years we have a 620 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:30,360 complete cataclysm. And it's all because the gnar and then the government is the 621 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,000 iron lobbyist, iron triangle, Have you better own a home? And all 622 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,760 these subsidies, and in every twenty five years, hundreds of billions of dollars 623 00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:42,079 come due and like, oh my gosh, you know the currencies in jeopardy. 624 00:42:42,599 --> 00:42:45,440 So it's a case in favor of a genuine market. Yeah, yes, 625 00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:49,960 yeah, I guess we'll be Thank you for the editing help. I 626 00:42:50,039 --> 00:42:52,280 really appreciate it. Yes, you're right about that. It's like, yes, 627 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,280 yes, I have nothing else to say about that. Yes, Peter, 628 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:59,440 you that was a better title. Unlike China, we don't have thirty 629 00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:05,400 story ghost towns in Kansas, yeat and the cartel phrase me, you know, 630 00:43:05,519 --> 00:43:08,159 concentrate minds. But we don't actually have Ms. Thirteen style running gun 631 00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:12,920 battles between reeltors in my neighborhood, which would be interesting. And you know 632 00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,840 they're you know, they're Blazers and their Lincoln Continentals and the rest of it. 633 00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:20,880 But we'll see one exit question, Jack, and it's pretty simple. 634 00:43:21,119 --> 00:43:24,719 Do you own a whom? Yes, I do. But there's no hypocrisy 635 00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:29,400 there, James, because I just I'm just curious. I know, well 636 00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:34,480 it sounds like, hey, mister smart, ally, just everybe look at 637 00:43:34,519 --> 00:43:37,719 it more objectively. If it works for you, it works for you absolutely, 638 00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:39,239 I know. Yeah, And I looked at it objectively. I had 639 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:43,119 the rent versus by decision and how much time I want to spend, and 640 00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,039 you change really proud to know that I'm out there and you too, Peter, 641 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:50,880 out there more on my own lawn. I have my little thing, 642 00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:53,360 and so this is a whole you know, I probably shouldn't be doing it, 643 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,679 but also derived ye, but Jack, you live in Texas. Your 644 00:43:55,719 --> 00:44:00,039 front lawn is five acres. Well, you know what's so funny, We 645 00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:04,039 do have buy akers about three acres of it. As you know, forest 646 00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:07,480 land, that forest land, cedar trees. And during the summer nothing really 647 00:44:07,559 --> 00:44:12,280 grows because one hundred degrees there for three months in a row, so turns 648 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:15,760 into a desert desert. But the fragrancy is wonderful, and we advise people 649 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,079 to go if they like cedar trees, fast growing trees. Who knows what 650 00:44:20,079 --> 00:44:22,199 they have in their catalog, give them a look and use the promo code 651 00:44:22,239 --> 00:44:23,320 ricochet. How about that? I just used an ad with a guest, 652 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,960 never done before, Jack. It's been it's been eye opening and fun and 653 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:31,199 really a pleasure to talk to you about these things. And never thought about 654 00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:36,960 it, never thought I would sit here and say is it real toil? 655 00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:42,400 Like Peter saying? Or realtor it's like that tembler trembler thing. What is 656 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,559 it? We'll just call it macartel. The book, the book again, 657 00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:51,559 Ladies and Gentlemen, is bringing Adam Smith into the American home the Case against 658 00:44:51,639 --> 00:44:53,800 Home Ownership, And then there's forty seven wards that Peter added. Thank you 659 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:58,960 Jack for joining US comes out on April fifteenth, and you know we'll talk 660 00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:00,840 to you down a little the road when we have the next property collapse, 661 00:45:01,159 --> 00:45:05,239 we'll call you up. Thanks for hitting the good good to hit the book 662 00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,199 on the way out. But the website for the firm for for Rex real 663 00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:13,320 Estate is rex Holmes dot com. Rex Holmes dot com. Okay, check, 664 00:45:13,679 --> 00:45:16,199 take care, Give to Texas is so great talking to both of you. 665 00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:21,079 Thank you so much. Take care all right? See it and you 666 00:45:21,079 --> 00:45:25,800 know I've James, you can't leave that house. You're a beautiful it's a 667 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:30,800 beautiful home. It was built by craftsmen as you have a beautiful yard, 668 00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:35,159 the gazebo, the old, the old growth. Old growth is the wrong 669 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:38,199 term, but the established, the old, the big old trees, it's 670 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:43,800 just beautiful. I know it's thirty thirty forty trees. I have you know 671 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:45,639 what it costs to mow that bleep in line. I mean, I'm gonna 672 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:49,760 I'm again, I'm gonna say to my wife, I want to mow the 673 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,039 lawn this year. I want to buy a lawnmower and do it. And 674 00:45:52,079 --> 00:45:53,960 she'll look at me and say, no, you won't do it. Though, 675 00:45:54,039 --> 00:45:57,679 that's the problem. But I will, I will, I absolutely, 676 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,559 and it's I had to. I have a you know, a corner lot, 677 00:46:01,639 --> 00:46:06,360 and it's so damned big. When was your house built? Nineteen fifteen, 678 00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,400 nineteen fifty one of the first houses in the neighborhood in Tangletown that was 679 00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:13,960 all plotted out, it used to be as a matter of fact, it 680 00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:19,320 was a local businessman and politician owned the area and he had British investors, 681 00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:22,840 so he named the street after a British politician, which I find interesting. 682 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:29,360 Nobody really in the neighborhood knows that it filled it filled it how many square 683 00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:30,920 feet. It's a big, beautiful I mean, it's it feels like an 684 00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:37,039 is. It feels substantial. It feels like a certain vision of America, 685 00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:39,800 the teams the twenties of the last century. We I mean, the man 686 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:44,480 who built it was a candy maker. Minneapolis was a was a locus of 687 00:46:44,519 --> 00:46:47,760 American candy innovation in the nineteen fifteens and twenties. And he was a guy, 688 00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:51,239 I mean, the man who invented the you know, the Mars bar. 689 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,320 You've heard of, the Mars candy company, the Milky Way. Yes, 690 00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:58,119 yes, lived down the street around the corner really, and the guy 691 00:46:58,159 --> 00:47:01,559 who built my house made a ca and he called the Walnetto, which would 692 00:47:01,599 --> 00:47:06,840 later be popularized on the laugh In television show many decades later, when Artie 693 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:09,440 Johnson, the pervy old man, would offer it to Ruth Buzzy, you 694 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,719 know, on a wallet out. But for years it was famous and he 695 00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,880 made so much money on it. Eventually moved away after ten fifteen years or 696 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:20,519 so and left the house too, and they had four owners, and there's 697 00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:22,840 a lot of history in it. No, I don't want to leave it. 698 00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,639 But at the other hand, you know, you downsize and you look 699 00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:29,880 at the room the child grew up in and it's now sort of a museum 700 00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:32,159 to their youth that they've cast off themselves. You look at all of this 701 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,440 territory that you have to maintain and the rest of it. And you look 702 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,039 at your utility bills which are extraordinary, and the property taxes which are absolutely 703 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:47,440 crushing in a stake ulter fashion. And you know, my wife's looking saying, 704 00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:51,320 I'd like to retire. Do we want? You know, at some 705 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:54,320 point, at some point, at some point it's going to be arn't for 706 00:47:54,400 --> 00:48:00,280 us to get up the stairs. Now I'm you know we're both vital first 707 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:05,360 with rough American spirits, but you know, best case scenario is I can't 708 00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:08,519 get upstairs. So I mean it's something that we've just been we've been thinking, 709 00:48:09,199 --> 00:48:13,480 never wanted to do this, but that keeps you from making decisions that 710 00:48:13,519 --> 00:48:15,400 perhaps you want to make. You know what I'm saying, And you know, 711 00:48:15,480 --> 00:48:21,079 the thing that happens sometimes is that you don't actually know what you should 712 00:48:21,119 --> 00:48:22,880 do. I mean, you know, you're going out tonight with friends, 713 00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:27,039 and you know you're going to have a good time, and nice know you 714 00:48:27,159 --> 00:48:31,079 might be fact for my fire alarm for this. This is fantastic. Came 715 00:48:31,079 --> 00:48:35,119 back to it came back to interrupt James's segue, but just in time to 716 00:48:35,159 --> 00:48:37,159 hear him say, I mean, I don't know if I'm going to keep 717 00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,199 being able to keep get moving up the stairs. That's all I needed to 718 00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:46,679 hear. Well, what Rob so efficiently derailed was the idea that sometimes you 719 00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,920 go out and you know you're going to have a great time, and you 720 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,559 maybe are thinking about what's going to be waiting for you the next morning. 721 00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:58,239 I let's face it, after in a night with drinks, you don't bounce 722 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:00,719 back the next day like you do as you age. Perhaps, so you 723 00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,400 gotta make a choice. You can either have a great night or a great 724 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,000 next day. 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Zibiotics 740 00:50:14,679 --> 00:50:17,400 is back with a one hundred percent money back guarantee, so if you're unsatisfied 741 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,599 for any reason, they will refund your money. No questions asked, No 742 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,079 Head to zbiotics dot com, slash ricochet and use the code Ricochet at checkout 743 00:50:27,119 --> 00:50:30,400 for fifteen percent off. Thank you Zbiotics for sponsoring the podcast we do. 744 00:50:30,559 --> 00:50:36,039 Thanks Zibiotics for sponsoring this the Ricochet podcast. Well, Rob, how is 745 00:50:36,079 --> 00:50:37,800 your fire drills? You stand around outside with your with your hands in your 746 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,920 pockets waiting for the teacher. Yeah, I have to say I was that 747 00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,480 guy. I was sort of like, it is stupid. I was in 748 00:50:44,519 --> 00:50:46,079 the room and then I heard they long and get to hear maybe even heard 749 00:50:46,119 --> 00:50:50,199 on the track went on and on and then and then they get knock find 750 00:50:50,199 --> 00:50:53,000 the knocked on my doors. It's sir, okay, But I was that 751 00:50:53,039 --> 00:50:55,920 guy. I was like exactly every firefighter's nightmare, the guy who's like I 752 00:50:55,920 --> 00:51:00,760 don't smell smoke that guy, which doesn't. But it turns out, of 753 00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,880 course that it was, you know, just I don't know what it was. 754 00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:06,119 But then we should have stood outside it for a while. And then 755 00:51:06,159 --> 00:51:09,599 the fire truck came and I am I was. I was angry, Joe 756 00:51:09,639 --> 00:51:15,280 taxpayer saying, you know, I took about fifteen minutes without fire truck tour. 757 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:19,719 They must know it's also not real. But there you go. So 758 00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:23,400 I have my grumpy old man fixed for the day. I mixed it. 759 00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,960 I missed it. What it would sound like a really very interesting conversation. 760 00:51:27,039 --> 00:51:29,920 Really. The only thing I was going to add to it was that I 761 00:51:30,119 --> 00:51:34,239 have had my my most of my life as a homeowner or even renter, 762 00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:45,639 has been in places surrounded by hippies, elderly hippies who bought their home near 763 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:50,360 me in the old days for no money and are now multimillionaires. At All 764 00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:57,559 they do is complain about it and the idea of the of the the the 765 00:51:58,199 --> 00:52:02,960 home as a slow moving but sure fire lottery ticket. It's going to be 766 00:52:04,079 --> 00:52:07,960 very hard to unlock from people's brains and buying patterns. But yeah, I'm 767 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:10,280 not that it shouldn't be, but I just think it's going to be very 768 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:15,880 hard to try to convince people that this thing isn't going to be worth ten 769 00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,280 million dollars someday. Isn't you said, isn't going to be Well, it 770 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,880 depends where it is and wood condition and all the rest of it. I 771 00:52:22,039 --> 00:52:27,840 had a homeowner's smoke situation this morning when a smoke alarm and we got about 772 00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:30,719 fifteen of them, went off. And the first thing and the first thing 773 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:36,800 I did when I heard it was pretend that it didn't happen, And the 774 00:52:36,840 --> 00:52:39,800 second thing was to sort of gauge how tired I was. Can I sleep 775 00:52:39,840 --> 00:52:44,440 through this? Because the process of walking through the house doing my bat like 776 00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:46,360 echo location to find out which one of these damned things is doing it is 777 00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:52,360 impossible. And so I went back to sleep, and I was. I 778 00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:59,400 slept through its periodic chirping of the ceiling bird, only to wake and find 779 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,159 that my wife was already downstairs having coffee and breakfast and was particularly pleased at 780 00:53:02,159 --> 00:53:05,440 all. And she said that, you know, she was woken up very 781 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:08,880 early in the morning by the smoke alarm, and I said yeah, And 782 00:53:08,920 --> 00:53:14,079 she said, well, why didn't you fix it? And I said, 783 00:53:14,079 --> 00:53:16,840 because I was, because because you, as you saw, I slept right 784 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:22,440 through it. Why didn't you fix it? Well, that's your job, 785 00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:24,280 yes, yes, yes, right, it is my job to do these 786 00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:30,480 things. And so I had replaced the batteries on every single smoke detector in 787 00:53:30,559 --> 00:53:34,800 the house before we left, because the house sitter. I didn't want her 788 00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,239 to wake up at two o'clock in the morning and have this happened to her. 789 00:53:37,719 --> 00:53:40,039 As it happens, the house sitter did send me a little text saying 790 00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:43,360 one of the smoke alarms is cheap? What do I do? And so 791 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,239 I sent her to get a battery and tell her what it was. Consequently, 792 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:49,079 I discovered that all the batteries that I had put into the smoke detectors 793 00:53:49,119 --> 00:53:53,079 expired in twenty twenty three. They'd never been used, but apparently at some 794 00:53:53,119 --> 00:53:58,039 point between November twenty three and March of twenty four, they all swooned, 795 00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:00,840 took to the couch, drained, you know, like a consumptive from the 796 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:05,840 nineteenth century, pale and dead. And so there's nothing I could have done 797 00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,000 when I finally found this smoke alarm that my wife was complaining about, and 798 00:54:08,079 --> 00:54:12,480 that, to be fair, so was I it was a non standard battery 799 00:54:12,519 --> 00:54:14,880 ever ready that went into it that I did not have an abundance, so 800 00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:17,400 I couldn't have done anything about it anyway. But it's like, just take 801 00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,360 the battery out, for heaven's sakes. I mean, honey, I've been 802 00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:24,239 doing that for months. There's probably only three of these things in the house 803 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,960 that work anyway. Oh, I shouldn't have said that. So no, 804 00:54:28,119 --> 00:54:31,360 anyway, if I'd rented, would the landlord have come by at four o'clock 805 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:36,199 in the morning to take the well? That that I have to say is 806 00:54:36,239 --> 00:54:39,760 the appealing part of Jack's business. I don't. I mean, I don't 807 00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,599 know how widely available it is. Maybe it's the only available in parts of 808 00:54:43,599 --> 00:54:50,920 Texas. But rex real Estate, Jack started it as an alternative listing service 809 00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:53,599 so that you could care, you could get out from underpaying the realtor's fees. 810 00:54:53,639 --> 00:54:57,000 I don't know how that piece is going. But he's clearly at war 811 00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:00,760 with the National Association of Realtors. But now they're starting a kind of home 812 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:06,800 management business where they'll take care of that appeals to So here's my confession. 813 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:13,239 The last time, the last time the ceiling bird I love that term started 814 00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,199 chirping in the middle of the night. Robinson's solution to the problem was, 815 00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:22,679 I went around the house and removed the battery from every single spoke only house. 816 00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:28,360 And we have that we have been living with totally disabled. I would 817 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,280 yank them out of the ceiling if I could figure out how to do it. 818 00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:35,519 Wait a minute, This is not the correct solutions, not the correct 819 00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:38,559 It is the top of my form. It's the best I can do, 820 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,679 not the worst solution. By the way, I've got co two detectors everywhere 821 00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,320 in the house. The guy came to the guy who came today to look 822 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:51,079 at my boiler, my high efficiency firm. I had a great conversation, 823 00:55:51,159 --> 00:55:53,000 by the way, with the Canadians in the bar about my high efficiency. 824 00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:57,039 First I showed them a picture of it because I'm so proud of the thing. 825 00:55:57,039 --> 00:55:59,840 And the pipes are so gorgeous and they're copper. It's like this, 826 00:56:00,159 --> 00:56:04,360 you feel those Canadian well they were just hey, hey, look at this 827 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:07,320 guy. He's got the Honeywell zones. Look at that. You know. 828 00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:10,079 It was just just fantastic. Another thing that was that was fun. And 829 00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,880 I'm sure rob and Peter you find yourself in the situation too, is that 830 00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:17,840 you can talk to any if you if you read about everything, if you 831 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:21,320 follow the news, if you read the Twitter, if you just pay attention 832 00:56:21,360 --> 00:56:23,679 to the world, there's a fighting chance you can start a convert You can 833 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:29,079 have a conversation with anybody about what they do because you know one thing, 834 00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:31,760 right, or because you've heard one thing. So a couple of these guys, 835 00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,239 I'm talking and I you know, what do you do? And they 836 00:56:34,239 --> 00:56:37,800 said, well, we work at this big steel mill. Wow. And 837 00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:42,079 so me and my cups standing there, you know, in this tropical night, 838 00:56:42,119 --> 00:56:45,360 eighty degrees, wonderful breezes, you know, Tan wearing my white shirt, 839 00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:46,400 and the rest of them casually says, so, how much of your 840 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:50,360 output is is you know, how much of your mature that you get to 841 00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:54,079 these days is recycled? And their eyes light up. It's like, we 842 00:56:54,199 --> 00:56:59,519 got a guy who knows about steel and on the way, well it's about 843 00:56:59,519 --> 00:57:00,760 one hundred. And you know, the thing is is that even though the 844 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,320 qualities lower, wee can mill it to one point for you. And so 845 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,199 on they go, and it's great, and I learned something as opposed to 846 00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:12,639 just saying oh that's interesting, I you know, seen pictures of Bethlehem back 847 00:57:12,679 --> 00:57:15,280 in the old days. Anyway. So the guy who came in and looked 848 00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:19,400 at me this morning and my stuff said, you usually start to get worried 849 00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,800 if you got two hundred ppm of carbon carbon monoxide, the you got six 850 00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:24,920 or something like that, you know, And he's patting me on the back 851 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:30,280 like I personally did it. But you know, yes, Peter, you're 852 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:31,920 right. The idea of having somebody to combine with the censors and the rest 853 00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,880 of it, that's all well, great and past list because you don't because 854 00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:42,039 when you see when you a leak, when you find something's wrong, there 855 00:57:42,079 --> 00:57:46,360 is a there's a sense of financial dread that grips your heart with its cold 856 00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:51,320 hand. And I understand that, I really do. But there's something to 857 00:57:51,320 --> 00:57:55,159 be said for knowing I'm responsible for this, not the landlord. The nation 858 00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,480 of renterers is not a nation of people who have who have it are involved 859 00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:05,159 and connected as much as they are as as a nation of people who feel 860 00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:09,039 responsible for something. Rob How has renting changed your life? Do you feel 861 00:58:09,039 --> 00:58:13,920 a lesser American? Well, and it was no, I don't. I 862 00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,719 don't at all. In fact, I feel unburdened, like it's not my 863 00:58:16,840 --> 00:58:21,440 problem. It not being my problem is important thing. Look, I think 864 00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:23,000 I having house is a great idea, and maybe it works. Maybe he 865 00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:27,079 doesn't. And I had a house for a long time. But just at 866 00:58:27,079 --> 00:58:29,760 a certain point, I have no put it this way, I don't feel 867 00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,679 the tug to buy or own anything. I'm just trying to get through Dick's 868 00:58:32,679 --> 00:58:38,039 Thursday. At this point, when my parents retired to their little retirement home, 869 00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:44,360 I found my father sitting out on the deck and at the worst possible 870 00:58:44,360 --> 00:58:47,280 time, because there was a guy who worked for the complex mowing the lawn 871 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:52,360 and it was loud, and what are you out here? And oh no, 872 00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:57,480 I just like watching somebody else do it. Yeah, it must be 873 00:58:57,719 --> 00:59:01,039 I get that. I really do. This year, for the first I 874 00:59:01,079 --> 00:59:05,039 got my snowblower working up again because I got tired of paying these guys to 875 00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:07,760 come and do it. And it's great because if i'd paid them, I 876 00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:09,760 would have paid them every month to come and shovel nothing because we had no 877 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,880 snow. But at the end of the season we get dumped. We get 878 00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:21,159 dumped and it's warm too, so it's heavy. It's the worst kind. 879 00:59:21,239 --> 00:59:23,800 So I go down there and I start up the snowblower, which works this 880 00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,920 year thanks to the son of the crazy my friend, the crazy Yuke, 881 00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:30,119 who can fix bring any engine back to life anything. I mean, my 882 00:59:30,199 --> 00:59:32,360 God, say, do you give this guy a rusty model tee that's been 883 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,800 sitting in the forest for seventy years. He'll have that thing tuned up and 884 00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:39,480 going in five minutes. He's amazing. So the snowblower starts, and I 885 00:59:39,559 --> 00:59:44,360 go into this mass of sowd and snow, and I end up writing a 886 00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:47,119 column about it, which point I said that putting the snowblower into this slushy 887 00:59:47,159 --> 00:59:52,239 bank was like eating a sodden pillow with your dentures out. And so what 888 00:59:52,400 --> 00:59:55,400 happens is that line, which is just a throwaway line in a column, 889 00:59:55,559 --> 01:00:00,000 somebody liked it, sent it to the New York Times, and it ends 890 01:00:00,079 --> 01:00:05,719 up in Frank Brunie's roundup of Sentences of the Week in the New York Times, 891 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:08,679 right under a compendium of pieces from that idiot who wrote the piece in 892 01:00:08,679 --> 01:00:13,519 the Atlantic magazine about hating cruise ships. Rob and I are always awarding you 893 01:00:13,559 --> 01:00:15,559 the sentence of the week. Why is it that you wait until Frank BRUNEI 894 01:00:15,679 --> 01:00:20,719 to mention this. I guess I don't know why. I really I don't 895 01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:23,239 understand that, James, because I am old enough that, even though they 896 01:00:23,239 --> 01:00:30,039 have squandered every single jot iota of their institutional GRAVI toss, I still regard 897 01:00:30,159 --> 01:00:34,280 being quoted in the New York Times as something of an accomplishment. That's how 898 01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,039 old I am. I remember, Oja, I remember that. You remember 899 01:00:37,360 --> 01:00:40,880 and the New York Times, and then you remember Thomas Jefferson. Well you 900 01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,639 go back a little bit farther than I. Let us bring our affairs to 901 01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:49,280 a close here and remind you this is brought to you by the Ricochet Audio 902 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,559 Network. Joined Ricochet, right, Rob joined Ricochet. You're out there, 903 01:00:52,280 --> 01:00:55,000 you know, get I'm out here, hustling man. I mean, yeah, 904 01:00:55,039 --> 01:00:59,840 we we would if you enjoy this podcast and you're interested in keeping this 905 01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,760 I we would love to have you join. And I'm not saying that if 906 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:07,480 we had commercials for Jack Ryan's company in a couple of weeks, it would 907 01:01:07,519 --> 01:01:10,039 make us look like total shells. But maybe wait three or four months before 908 01:01:10,079 --> 01:01:15,000 pitching those. Listen, No, that was I was just talking to it 909 01:01:15,039 --> 01:01:19,880 five minutes ago. Oh good, Always on the hustle speaking of hustling, 910 01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:23,280 hustle yourself over to Apple Podcast give us five star review. And while you're 911 01:01:23,320 --> 01:01:27,039 out, to check out The Diner, which is my new podcast, well 912 01:01:27,519 --> 01:01:30,159 new in the sense that it started in nineteen ninety seven when memories of OJ 913 01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:34,519 were still fresh, and it has been going low these many years, and 914 01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:37,840 thanks to the brilliant production work of EJ. Hill, actually gives you an 915 01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:42,039 audio experience that's that's just grant. So yeah, go check. We do 916 01:01:42,079 --> 01:01:45,519 not thank EJ. Hill often enough, all between his audio skills and his 917 01:01:45,559 --> 01:01:51,840 photoshop skills and the rest of it, just the man holding together some creative 918 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:55,519 genius of Ricochet. And speaking of Ricochet to come, there will be more 919 01:01:55,599 --> 01:02:00,280 Ricochet to come in a different web form, but just figuring out the bugs. 920 01:02:00,679 --> 01:02:05,639 In the meantime. What exists is the site we love and know. 921 01:02:05,840 --> 01:02:07,199 And then if you haven't joined, you should because it's the place you've been 922 01:02:07,199 --> 01:02:13,039 looking for the same mostly civil mostly sent her right place on the internet, 923 01:02:13,119 --> 01:02:15,199 Ricochet dot com. It's been grand being back together with you guys again, 924 01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:19,760 and we'll see you next week. We'll see everybody in the comments at Ricochet 925 01:02:19,880 --> 01:02:23,199 four point oh next week. Next week, boys, next week, Pellas 926 01:02:24,960 --> 01:02:30,239 Ricochet join the conversation.