WEBVTT 1 00:00:37.719 --> 00:00:41.880 Welcome to another episode of Blood and Dust podcast. We have been off for 2 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:45.679 a little bit. We don't want to talk about the Curse of Blood and 3 00:00:45.759 --> 00:00:50.920 Dust because for the last two or three weeks we've been trying to record the 4 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:55.640 first part of this episode. We do have a new co host to introduce 5 00:00:55.679 --> 00:01:00.600 as well, and it's one of those situations where we're trying to give you 6 00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:04.239 guys content, make sure it's on time and out weekly and everything like that, 7 00:01:04.359 --> 00:01:08.680 and with everybody's schedules, everybody living in different states, having different lives, 8 00:01:08.760 --> 00:01:11.959 it's summertime, our kids are out of school, all that good stuff. 9 00:01:12.239 --> 00:01:15.239 We wanted to bring in another person by the name of Cammy, who 10 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:21.959 I personally have known for years upon years. She helped me a lot with 11 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:30.680 the research of Wyatt earp on mysterious circumstances, and the research that she provides 12 00:01:30.079 --> 00:01:41.079 is pretty phenomenal. And yeah, so I'm joined tonight by Julie and Cammy. 13 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:45.640 So, Cammy, would you like to introduce yourself to everybody? Hi, 14 00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:49.760 guys, I'm Cammy. I'm just jumping in. I can't this is 15 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:53.879 stupid. I can't do this. Justin Yes, you can. You're doing 16 00:01:53.920 --> 00:02:00.920 great, all right? How about this. Cammy is stupid nervous right now, 17 00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.840 she literally has her own podcast, and I'm not going to edit this 18 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:07.599 out. I'm going to keep this in the episode because I'm sorry, Cammy, 19 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.439 I love you to death. But I find this so amusing because you 20 00:02:10.520 --> 00:02:15.879 were like so scared right now, let's let's do this. What got you 21 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:20.120 into the wild West and why do you like it? So? What really 22 00:02:20.159 --> 00:02:23.159 got me into the wild West? Actually is my dad, of course, 23 00:02:23.280 --> 00:02:27.960 watch all the wild West movies, all the Young Guns and Tombstone of course. 24 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:32.000 And then listening to podcasts while I was at work, ran across Justin's 25 00:02:32.039 --> 00:02:38.400 podcast and he does some really great biographies and really in depth research. So 26 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:40.360 that got me going. So then I branched out a little bit. I 27 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:44.639 tried to do my own podcast. That kind of fizzled out a little bit. 28 00:02:44.759 --> 00:02:46.840 It's a whole lot of work and a lot of commitment that was just 29 00:02:46.879 --> 00:02:50.840 a little bit much for me at the time. So I'm hoping with a 30 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:54.280 group of friends it'll be a lot easier to manage. But I live over 31 00:02:54.360 --> 00:03:00.520 here in eastern Washington more or so, like towards the Canadian Board, so 32 00:03:00.639 --> 00:03:04.919 there's a lot of history over here wild West style. I actually have family 33 00:03:05.000 --> 00:03:10.039 property where Wyatt Earp and his family were said to traversed around like Eagle Creek, 34 00:03:10.080 --> 00:03:16.759 Idaho area. And I just really really enjoy doing the research and just 35 00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.520 learning new things about history. So I guess to really enjoy the history. 36 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.560 And see, it's that easy. Now we got Cammy introduced to everybody. 37 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:34.280 Welcome Cammy. You're gonna do awesome, which I'm already amazed at your personality 38 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:38.159 and humor. Your friend Adjustin's you're awesome anyways, so and your notes are 39 00:03:38.199 --> 00:03:42.159 fantastic. So welcome to the club. I guess if this is a club, 40 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.639 Yeah, it definitely is. If first off, I'm joining late in, 41 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:53.840 Like this topic had already been chosen and introduced before I got brought into 42 00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:58.159 this episode, and I gotta ask, like what was appealing? I think 43 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:01.560 Julie, I think the nurse might have voted on this, or it was 44 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.360 Julie that chose it. Julie, did you choose it? Yeah? I 45 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:10.639 did, I don't know. I think it was in history class. I 46 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.719 went to a private school, so I had the same twenty kids for like 47 00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:18.040 eight years and every grade, and you know, I got to know all 48 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:23.079 these kids, I got to know everything about history. There was nobody shy 49 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:27.600 enough to ask questions like we were just asking all these questions constantly, and 50 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.959 one topic got brought up of this woman with this tattoo and going to school 51 00:04:32.040 --> 00:04:38.639 in a strict religious church school. Tattoos were like a bad no no, 52 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:42.000 which ironically, you know, as an adult, I have tattoos and it's 53 00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:46.879 nothing now, But I think it was just looking at her, Yeah, 54 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:51.199 looking at her face as a young child with like a bad thing on her 55 00:04:51.199 --> 00:04:55.759 face, you know, as a child, believing that was just fascinating to 56 00:04:55.800 --> 00:04:59.319 me. And now when I'm approaching the subject and the topic of her as 57 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:03.480 a woman in this present day and as an adult, I just fell in 58 00:05:03.480 --> 00:05:08.720 love with her even more so. I just really wanted to show her life 59 00:05:08.759 --> 00:05:12.759 to everybody and just see what she was all about. She was actually the 60 00:05:12.959 --> 00:05:16.079 first photographed white woman with a facial tattoo. Yeah, yeah, it's just 61 00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:20.759 amazing. And there are so many misconceptions about that as well, which is 62 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:26.800 why I found it personally interesting because you'll see the picture and then you know, 63 00:05:26.879 --> 00:05:30.000 you'll see it on Facebook, and then you read through the comments and 64 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:35.160 it's just almost I don't want to say ignorance, but people obviously do not 65 00:05:35.399 --> 00:05:40.879 know, like what was going on and don't know the full story. They 66 00:05:40.920 --> 00:05:44.879 just see that and then they you know, they have that preconceived notion. 67 00:05:45.839 --> 00:05:48.720 It's just such an interesting story. It is, well you'll see in her 68 00:05:48.759 --> 00:05:53.600 memoir, which we'll talk about, but with all of like you know, 69 00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:58.319 the racism and the culture of the time that I think a lot of people 70 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.839 back in the day I mean even less now probably, but back in that 71 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:06.199 time, you know, having a woman in her situation, you know, 72 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:13.759 coming back into society, and then especially with the reminder that you can't erase 73 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.839 off your face for everyone to like judge you not only for your ink, 74 00:06:16.879 --> 00:06:21.519 but for your history and the rumors. It's just I felt so bad for 75 00:06:21.519 --> 00:06:26.800 her, and I shouldn't, you know, she was happy and she had 76 00:06:26.800 --> 00:06:30.680 to live without the rest of her life, you know, absolutely well. 77 00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:34.360 A lot of the misconceptions about the tattoo that she carries I think actually stem 78 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:41.480 from her memoir, which we'll quote later and explain. But the newer information 79 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:46.680 and the newer interpretations kind of conflict with what she said. As far as 80 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:48.920 what we know with the Mohave tribe, so it's really interesting to kind of 81 00:06:48.920 --> 00:06:56.120 see what the culture of the time actually influenced in the memoir. Yeah, 82 00:06:56.240 --> 00:07:00.680 exactly. I know Justin said in the past from when I worked with him, 83 00:07:00.680 --> 00:07:05.920 like, you have to take consideration the author and their political viewpoints versus 84 00:07:05.959 --> 00:07:10.120 you know, what they're trying to gain from it. And you know, 85 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:15.759 obviously for Stratton it was fame, but financial purposes as well, and it's 86 00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:20.519 just I don't know, the whole Stratton situation will discuss a horrible taste in 87 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:26.040 my mouth. Well, and all of actually couldn't even write. So everything 88 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:31.879 that's in that memoir is a quotation or you know, dictation from her when 89 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:36.240 they were talking to write this book. And you can't even imagine the flowery 90 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.480 words that are used in Western writing, right, Yeah, it gets pretty 91 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:46.040 at times. As the kid, when I saw her face and my history 92 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:48.879 class, being in a religious class, you know, being raised in a 93 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:54.120 private school, Lutheran school, I probably had the same viewpoint of her as 94 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:58.000 a child that her society had of her, which is horrible to think about 95 00:07:58.480 --> 00:08:03.040 and totally just made me flinch. All of them. So sorry, when 96 00:08:03.040 --> 00:08:07.759 we're all young and we're still learning about the world. I mean, we're 97 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:11.040 all we're all naive to a certain extent, you know, because there's a 98 00:08:11.040 --> 00:08:16.360 lot of misconceptions that I you know, when I was a kid too, 99 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:18.920 and I saw that and I would read like a little header and I'm like, 100 00:08:18.959 --> 00:08:24.920 oh man, that's horrible, and then actually digging into it, I 101 00:08:24.000 --> 00:08:28.560 was like, Wow, this is totally different than what a lot of people 102 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.399 think. Yeah, well, your perceptions are very much environmental, absolutely absolutely. 103 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:41.840 I just her as a whole person is just it's more than just a 104 00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:46.080 couple paragraphs, like it's like probably a couple episodes worth of history. This 105 00:08:46.200 --> 00:08:52.480 is going to be more than likely a three or even possibly a four part 106 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:58.840 episode. So you listeners, just be ready and we're going to get them 107 00:08:58.879 --> 00:09:01.720 out week by week. We're going to keep you coming back from more because 108 00:09:01.759 --> 00:09:05.480 there is a lot of information that we have to go over. And speaking 109 00:09:05.480 --> 00:09:07.919 of which, do you ladies care if I go ahead and get us started? 110 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:15.200 Go ahead? Outstanding. In eighteen thirty seven or thirty nine, Olive 111 00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:20.480 was born into the family of Mary Anne and Royce Oatman, who were practicing 112 00:09:20.559 --> 00:09:26.480 Mormons. Olive was one of seven siblings. She had three sisters three brothers. 113 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:31.320 There were Lorenzo, Mary Anne, Charity Anne, Lucy Olive and then 114 00:09:31.480 --> 00:09:39.120 Roland and Royce and Olive. Ann Oatman was roughly an eleven year old girl 115 00:09:39.279 --> 00:09:43.639 in the summer of eighteen forty nine when her father, who happened to be 116 00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.200 a former farmer and a store owner from New York, he decided to relocate 117 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.279 their family to the New Mexico Territory which is now Arizona. He was trying 118 00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.840 to provide them with a better life, and he and his family had joined 119 00:10:00.919 --> 00:10:05.960 a colony of Brewster wrighte Mormons. Is that right, Brewster Wright, That's 120 00:10:05.960 --> 00:10:09.799 the way I heard it, all right, I'm taking it all right. 121 00:10:09.879 --> 00:10:15.240 Well, they were planning to settle in the Yuma area, and it was 122 00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:20.080 roughly fifty to ninety colonists, and that included the Oatman family. And they 123 00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:26.000 gathered at Independence, Missouri in the spring of eighteen fifty and they organized a 124 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:33.200 wagon train under James Brewster, and on August tenth they went out to start 125 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.759 their journey and they took the Santa Fe trail. And it didn't take long 126 00:10:37.879 --> 00:10:45.200 for a lot of confusion and conflict among the people to cause the group to 127 00:10:45.480 --> 00:10:52.279 split. So eight of the wagons followed the Rio Grand Gila route, with 128 00:10:52.639 --> 00:10:56.360 Royce Oatman heading the whole path. All right, he was blazing the path. 129 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:01.159 If people are unfamiliar with how a wagon train worked, something to kind 130 00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:05.360 of watch. I guess. I fell in love with the eighteen eighty three 131 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:09.120 series of the prior version of Yellowstone from HBO. I think it is or 132 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:15.960 paramount. It's highly fascinating and they did a really good job with depicting the 133 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.960 kind of things that they were encounter on the wagon trails. So if you 134 00:11:18.320 --> 00:11:24.120 want to see it visually, check it out. Definitely. I've personally never 135 00:11:24.159 --> 00:11:28.000 seen it, but I hear it's pretty popular, so it's amazing. They 136 00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:33.519 did a great job. Royce has a whole new objective at this point, 137 00:11:33.559 --> 00:11:39.200 and he's determined to go to California, and he is leading his party and 138 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:45.279 he is forging this path with no mercy at all. They had long, 139 00:11:45.399 --> 00:11:50.879 hard days there under the sun that he it's rough to rain out there. 140 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:56.679 He at one point had several of his oxen collapse from exhaustion, and the 141 00:11:56.759 --> 00:12:01.360 members of his crew wanted to stop and rest, and oh man, he 142 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.799 said, we're going. So him and his family just kept on going and 143 00:12:05.240 --> 00:12:09.279 he figured that all of his oxen and everything else. He's like, they're 144 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:11.799 going to die before we get to California, so we need to get as 145 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:16.279 far as we can. Now. The other version that is out there is 146 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:24.480 that Royce was frustrated with the constant fighting and he decided to go alone with 147 00:12:24.559 --> 00:12:28.200 their wagon, which, in all honesty, if you think about it, 148 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:33.840 with all of the variables, it would have been pretty dumb and it really 149 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:37.679 would have been dangerous. You're basically asking to die. Yeah, that's exactly 150 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:43.559 right. And I mean he's traveling by himself. You got robbers, outlaws, 151 00:12:43.600 --> 00:12:48.159 thieves, illness, rough terrain, food and water shortage, you got 152 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:54.519 weather elements, you have all kinds of stuff going on. Well, not 153 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.679 only like if their wagon breaks, what if one of their oxen or mules 154 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.879 side like have something wrong. I mean you're basically left, you know. 155 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:11.879 Does anybody played the organ trail exactly well? I played it. I very 156 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:16.080 rarely make it to Oregon, I'll be honest with you. I decided to 157 00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:20.320 play that with my now husband for first Christmas together after many, like three 158 00:13:20.360 --> 00:13:24.000 weeks of dating, and every single time I died, I took a shot. 159 00:13:24.000 --> 00:13:28.200 And let's just say I ended up on the floor with two hangovers. 160 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:31.799 I couldn't get out of bed. Christmas is ruined. It's basically real life. 161 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:37.279 Doesn't terry like that's what always. It doesn't terry every single time. 162 00:13:39.799 --> 00:13:43.120 You're justin window about that, right? Bad. Yeah, I'm a little 163 00:13:43.240 --> 00:13:46.480 for the listeners. I'm a little rough today. So it was. It 164 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:52.200 was a long night and uh, not celebrating anything in particular. But my 165 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:56.480 favorite animal is me on a Saturday night, and that is not Oh my 166 00:13:56.559 --> 00:14:01.080 gosh, you need a T shirt that you know what? Maybe I'll make 167 00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:07.320 those and it's not a bad idea, all right, So I know you 168 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:09.440 look, i'd send you one for free. I'm gonna make you buy it, 169 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:13.919 all right. So the Oatman's had been traveling for almost a year when 170 00:14:13.919 --> 00:14:18.919 it hits March of eighteen fifty one and the family was moving along the Gila 171 00:14:20.080 --> 00:14:28.159 River and this later became known as the Oatman Flat. Nineteen Yavapaie came upon 172 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:31.519 them, and the Yavapaie wanted food, guns, whatever they could get off 173 00:14:31.559 --> 00:14:37.120 of them, and Royce advised them that if he gave them these items, 174 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:43.080 he was putting his family at risk. So the Yavapaie got really really mad 175 00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.600 about this, and they attacked him. They were eighty miles from fort Yuma, 176 00:14:46.759 --> 00:14:52.200 and Olive watched as her mother, father, and brothers and sisters were 177 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:58.960 bludgeoned in the head with war clubs until they all died. Her and her 178 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.720 sister, mary Anne, who was seven, they were spared, and her 179 00:15:03.759 --> 00:15:09.639 brother Lorenzo, who was fifteen, was left for dead but managed to escape 180 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:13.759 and did not die. So after the attack, Lorenzo woke up and he 181 00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:20.559 found his parents in his sibling stead, but he saw no sign of Mary 182 00:15:20.559 --> 00:15:26.879 Anne or Olive. And Lorenzo attempted this trek to find help, and he 183 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.360 eventually reached a settlement. You know, all his wounds got treated and he 184 00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:35.120 ended up being okay, and Lorenzo rejoined the immigrant train, and three days 185 00:15:35.200 --> 00:15:41.279 later he returned to the bodies of his family. In a detailed retelling which 186 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:48.320 was reprinted in newspapers over the decades, he said, we buried the bodies 187 00:15:48.360 --> 00:15:52.879 of father, mother and babe in one common grave, and the men had 188 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:58.440 no way of digging proper graves because of the really rocky soil around there, 189 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:04.720 so they gathered these together and they formed a cairn over them and It has 190 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:10.480 been said that the remains were reburied several times and finally moved to the river 191 00:16:10.759 --> 00:16:18.639 for reinterment, and this was by early Arizona colonizer Charles Posting. Lorenzo Oatman 192 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:25.519 became determined to never ever give up searching for his two sisters that were alive. 193 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:27.120 I heard a rumor, and I don't know if this is actually true 194 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:32.639 or not, but I remember hearing along the lines that Royce was getting worried 195 00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:37.840 that his food storage was getting low, and he sent for help from the 196 00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:42.480 fort up ahead. And when they were killed, people were coming back to 197 00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:48.440 help with the burial, and then that person delivering the message like passed by 198 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.159 two. So it was just like one after another. They were doomed. 199 00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.399 I've you know, it just felt so bad for these people. Yeah. 200 00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.799 Yeah, there was actually a note that was pinned to a tree to warn 201 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:03.160 them of the Indian danger. Yeah, and I and the mother was pregnant 202 00:17:03.200 --> 00:17:07.920 as well, wasn't she was so just all these little babies, you know, 203 00:17:08.720 --> 00:17:14.839 Lorenzo and Olive were I believe the two oldest, so that's why you 204 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.880 know, they were so close. And then mary Anne was the third oldest, 205 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:22.640 and the rest are just super young children just butchered, yeah, which 206 00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.880 isn't uncommon, oh exactly. And speaking of the family, why don't you 207 00:17:27.960 --> 00:17:33.440 ladies give us a little bit more in depth knowledge on, you know, 208 00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:37.720 the mom and dad and a little bit more of their background. There was 209 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:42.000 the father who was Royce. Mother her name was Marianne, just like the 210 00:17:42.519 --> 00:17:48.160 sister that Olive was taken captive with. There was also Lucy Oatman who was 211 00:17:48.200 --> 00:17:52.759 sixteen, Lorenzo who was fifteen in these were ages at the time of the 212 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:59.720 massacre, Olive who was fourteen, and Marianne who was seventeen. There were 213 00:17:59.720 --> 00:18:04.559 all so four other miscellaneous siblings. Marianne was seven right, Yes, there 214 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:10.279 were also four other siblings that I didn't know about, and the unborn child 215 00:18:10.920 --> 00:18:15.000 just so sad. Mister Open was a medium sized man. He was about 216 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.279 five foot in height, so I guess I had four inches on this poor 217 00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.960 man. He had black hair, and he had a round face, and 218 00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:27.400 he was in the prime of his life. He was forty one winters quote 219 00:18:29.039 --> 00:18:33.240 and has scarcely begun to plow the first fur of age with his manly upon 220 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:38.720 his manly cheek. Apparently he was super manly at five feet tall, which 221 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:45.400 I think most people nowadays wouldn't think of that as very manly. He just 222 00:18:45.039 --> 00:18:52.640 was very healthy. He was super happy. He was apparently pretty disposed to 223 00:18:52.680 --> 00:18:57.039 look twenty six, which okay, so he was manly, but he looked 224 00:18:57.119 --> 00:19:02.960 young. So this is very interesting and humorous. So he was just really, 225 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:07.880 I guess, in his vigor of life, trying to proceed with his 226 00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:12.559 family and make good choices. He had a really good temperament. He had 227 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:19.319 no fear, seemed he was pretty exciting from the looks of it. He 228 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:25.720 just wanted to live his life, and he was an overall round rounded person, 229 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:30.039 somebody i'd want to meet, not necessarily date, because you know, 230 00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:34.839 can't date a younger, shorter man than me. And him being from New 231 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:40.160 York too, he had an advantage because he was very well educated. Yeah. 232 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:42.960 I think in our notes we reference that he had a store in New 233 00:19:44.039 --> 00:19:48.680 York, so he had a keen sense for business. Hm. So Marianne 234 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:55.200 Sperry, his wife, She was actually mostly known for being a homemaker and 235 00:19:55.279 --> 00:20:03.039 keeping her husband happy and being an affectionate celebrat in their social accomplishments. And 236 00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:10.200 also she had in her childhood come from wealthy parents. It was boasted that 237 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:12.960 she never merited a rebuke for any wrong. So it sounds like she was 238 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:18.759 just a really nice lady who was really attentive to her family and took great 239 00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:23.559 pride in that nuclear unit. Yeah, and he kept his home and an 240 00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:27.559 attraction, which as myself as being a wife, I'm doing a very poor 241 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:36.480 job at Mister Oatman had collected like a large sum of money and he was 242 00:20:36.519 --> 00:20:41.359 trying to go south to replenish his merchantile establishment. And this is when the 243 00:20:41.400 --> 00:20:47.279 banks began to fail at this period in history. In a few weeks he 244 00:20:47.359 --> 00:20:53.160 found himself just several thousand dollars in debt, and he was disappointed, but 245 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:56.319 he was like, we can do this. It doesn't matter. So to 246 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:02.920 him, a reverse was the watchwood for a renewal of energy. And for 247 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.960 two or three years he had been in correspondence with relatives residing in the Cumberland 248 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:15.240 Valley in Pennsylvania, and in a few weeks he had disposed of the fragments 249 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:21.200 of a just shattered fortune. The guy had not nothing left the greatest possible 250 00:21:21.240 --> 00:21:26.519 advantage to his creditors, which you know they wanted. It was resolved because 251 00:21:26.680 --> 00:21:33.319 of an immediate removal to that valley. So in two months preparations were made, 252 00:21:33.480 --> 00:21:37.160 and in three months, with a family of five kids, he arrived 253 00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:41.599 there with his friends in the Cumberland Valley and he was trying to make a 254 00:21:41.680 --> 00:21:47.400 permanent settlement there. So I'm going to read it quote real quick, and 255 00:21:47.519 --> 00:21:52.960 it's from a captivity of the Oatman girls, and it said they had spent 256 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:57.119 but a few months in Pennsylvania, the place of their anticipated abode for life. 257 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:03.240 Mister Oatman found it and to him an unfit and unsuitable place, as 258 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:08.759 also an unpromising region in which to rear a family. He sighed again for 259 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:14.720 the wide, wild prairie lands of the West. There for one year they 260 00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:19.559 supported with toil of head and hand. The father was an experienced school teacher 261 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:25.359 their growing family, so he probably had it in his ear that he was 262 00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:27.920 going to go out west like everybody else and strike it rich again, you 263 00:22:29.000 --> 00:22:30.599 know, wanting to support his family, and he had a baby on the 264 00:22:30.640 --> 00:22:33.960 way. I think it reads like he has a bit of wander last two 265 00:22:34.799 --> 00:22:37.960 right, Yeah, like he isn't satisfied because it feels like at the time 266 00:22:38.240 --> 00:22:42.960 Pennsylvania was well established, so he wanted to find something new and exciting, 267 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:48.000 and he had big dreams where he you know, I'm sure at that time 268 00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:52.599 rumors of gold were flying, so he probably had an earful out for that 269 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.759 too, definitely, And like if you look at his a lot of descriptions 270 00:22:56.759 --> 00:22:59.440 of him when he was younger, that's one of the things they said. 271 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.799 He was just a very vigorous guy and like wanted to live and go do 272 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.359 all these things. And well educated. Yeah, extremely yeah, which was 273 00:23:07.480 --> 00:23:11.880 rare for the time. You know. So after a back injury, he 274 00:23:11.000 --> 00:23:15.119 was no longer able to work in the harsh Midwest winters, and he starts 275 00:23:15.119 --> 00:23:19.880 looking towards more temperate climate in which he could more ablely support his family. 276 00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.200 It was just absolute torture for him to work with his injury, to the 277 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:30.519 point where, like I said, he started contemplating moving his entire family somewhere 278 00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.799 more healthy, more suitable to his health. That was a big thing back 279 00:23:34.799 --> 00:23:41.240 at those times, especially with like tuberculosis, where they would move former climates 280 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:44.759 and all kinds of afflictions. I mean, they had all kinds of medical 281 00:23:44.799 --> 00:23:49.279 ideas back then. But don't even get me started on that they were sending 282 00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.200 everybody out west. But yeah, so they went in search of a better 283 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.960 climate there. It said something about, you know, with each winter that 284 00:23:57.000 --> 00:24:00.880 would come. You know, I live in Minnesota for those who are just 285 00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:07.759 listening, and I absolutely loath the winters here, like it's horrible. But 286 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.440 I don't know how it is in Pennsylvania when the winters come. I can't 287 00:24:11.480 --> 00:24:15.480 imagine it being worse than what I have. But if it's winter in general, 288 00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:21.960 it just sucks. So it says after receiving this injury to his back 289 00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:26.000 and spine, he would put them in a place a rack of pain and 290 00:24:26.039 --> 00:24:30.880 at times render a life of torture. I can't imagine having something that hurts 291 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.920 so bad that when every month of winter that feels like six seven months, 292 00:24:36.599 --> 00:24:40.319 which in reality is like four. You know, you don't want to live 293 00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:45.039 like that. Every day is just torture and hell. So circulars in eighteen 294 00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:48.640 forty nine were promoting a new settlement in the New Mexican territory at the mouth 295 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:53.200 of the Rio Colorado and the Gala Rivers. So they were being dispersed through 296 00:24:53.279 --> 00:24:57.599 the northern and western territories of Illinois, and they caught the attention of Royce. 297 00:24:57.960 --> 00:25:03.359 So back in the day obviously, they didn't have internet, they didn't 298 00:25:03.359 --> 00:25:08.519 have fast communications, so people would put out flyers, ads and newspapers and 299 00:25:08.599 --> 00:25:12.960 pass them out, and that's what drew thousands of people to go to the 300 00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:18.960 West. That's how these dreams and ambitions and most of the people who live 301 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:23.759 there now got there. Which seems silly to reiterate, but you know, 302 00:25:25.000 --> 00:25:30.279 you have to kind of. Yeah. So in August ninth, eighteen fifty 303 00:25:30.759 --> 00:25:36.119 is when the family took up with the wagon train that was led by James 304 00:25:36.359 --> 00:25:41.000 Brewster, and he was a member of the Church of Latter day Saints, 305 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:48.160 and Brewster was going to lead the Brewster Rights to California to what he claimed 306 00:25:48.279 --> 00:25:52.960 was an intended place of gathering for Mormons. I didn't even know this guy 307 00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:57.119 existed for the Mormons, which maybe I'm just uneducated in the Mormon department, 308 00:25:57.160 --> 00:26:00.559 but I had no idea he was even around. His name doesn't sound familiar 309 00:26:00.599 --> 00:26:04.200 at all to me. I didn't. Yeah, he was probably one, 310 00:26:04.240 --> 00:26:08.680 just a follower of the church. I guess that had organized probably a wagon 311 00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:12.240 train. He probably wasn't like a prominent member or anything like that. Yeah, 312 00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:18.160 I guess I'm just more familiar with like the Utah Mormons. Yeah, 313 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:21.640 but I guess go for it whatever makes shappy. Yeah, well, there 314 00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.880 were quite a bit of families going out towards Utah. Yeah, I heard 315 00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:30.440 that there was about fifty to even one hundred plus. So the number varies 316 00:26:30.480 --> 00:26:36.720 obviously with history unless there's something physically saved in form, it all varies, 317 00:26:36.759 --> 00:26:40.079 and you can't be one hundred percent sure. But I've read anywhere from fifty 318 00:26:40.119 --> 00:26:45.799 to one hundred. Oh wow. This wagon train did depart Independence, Missouri 319 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:52.039 with somewhere between eighty five to ninety three people, So I mean it wasn't 320 00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.559 a small wagon train by any means either, So there were a lot of 321 00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.319 people involved in that. Yeah, And it looks like in eighteen fifty, 322 00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:04.319 approximately the second week of travel, the wagon trail had its first encounter with 323 00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:08.799 the natives, and they were on the bank of the Arkansas River. I'm 324 00:27:08.839 --> 00:27:11.880 gonna pronounce his name, so correct me if I'm wrong, Cammy. But 325 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:18.440 a mister Mutrie was checking in the livestock after worship and overheard natives singing and 326 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:23.920 dancing, and that he thought they were Comanchee, and so the wagoneer fled, 327 00:27:23.960 --> 00:27:27.920 and when he saw the native pointing a gun at him from behind a 328 00:27:27.960 --> 00:27:33.359 tree, which obviously that would give you quite a fright. So the natives 329 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:37.960 professed good intentions and they were allowed into camp, and they seemed to be 330 00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:45.119 enjoying themselves, but they left abruptly after a terse interaction, which I'm guessing 331 00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.480 at the time from reading food was kind of hard to come by, so 332 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.960 maybe he was trying to get food for his family. But if you give 333 00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:56.519 one food, then the rest of the tribe's gonna follow, I'm assuming, 334 00:27:56.200 --> 00:28:00.880 Oh yeah, for sure. And I mean they were actually making good time. 335 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.359 They were traveling. I believe it said one hundred miles every week. 336 00:28:06.000 --> 00:28:08.400 Oh wow. So I mean they were really pushing on. When you got 337 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:14.519 oxen or horse, that's travel, that's all how to travel in a wagon 338 00:28:14.559 --> 00:28:19.200 train. And it seems like they were there were no evil designs to interact 339 00:28:19.240 --> 00:28:22.720 with each other. They were just kind of trying to be friendly as possible 340 00:28:22.759 --> 00:28:27.279 because I'm guessing each party had their own negative experience with, you know, 341 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:33.039 each other. So it looks like the Indians were kind of approaching into camp 342 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.039 asking for the privilege, you know, to congregate with each other. Indians 343 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.119 came into the camp, of course, but it looks like they were just 344 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:45.200 kind of making ready to their arrows, and it made people super uncomfortable. 345 00:28:45.720 --> 00:28:49.640 It's so in August of eighteen fifty, they had traveled like five hundred miles 346 00:28:49.640 --> 00:28:53.759 by this point, and they reached Morro New Mexico, and this is when 347 00:28:53.799 --> 00:28:57.759 they kind of were able to take a little bit of a break. And 348 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:03.799 from the book Captivity of the Oatman Girls, here's the quote that was said, 349 00:29:03.599 --> 00:29:07.920 during this time, nothing of special interest occurred to break the almost painful 350 00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:15.440 monotony of our way or ruffle the quiet of our sociall save an occasional family 351 00:29:15.559 --> 00:29:22.000 jar, the frequent crossing of pointed opinions, and now and then prophecies of 352 00:29:22.200 --> 00:29:25.759 engines ahead, which is a direct quote. Trust me, I hate that 353 00:29:25.799 --> 00:29:30.920 word. But when they came into the Mexican settlements, their stores of meats 354 00:29:32.200 --> 00:29:37.079 was well exhausted, so they didn't have anything, and they were gratefully surprised 355 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:42.920 to find that at every stopping place they had a lot of mutton in the 356 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:48.039 market and it was fresh and it was really good quality. They were really 357 00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:51.640 lucky to get their hands on those good supplies, all right, Oh, 358 00:29:51.720 --> 00:29:55.359 absolutely they were. It was kind of nice because this was kind of like 359 00:29:55.359 --> 00:29:59.680 a breaking point for them because they had been traveling along and hard and they 360 00:30:00.000 --> 00:30:03.559 finally found this spot where it's like, man, this is all right. 361 00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:07.799 You know, so this is kind of like fast food for the pianet. 362 00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.359 They're gonna travel at travel until they're about dead and then the next hey, 363 00:30:12.839 --> 00:30:17.920 we get some meat. This this kind of would explain why they ended up 364 00:30:17.920 --> 00:30:22.480 getting killed and h. On that note, I think we are going to 365 00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:27.920 end part one because when we get into part two and obviously part three, 366 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.000 like I said, that's going to be a long series and it's a very 367 00:30:32.039 --> 00:30:36.599 in depth, but it's very interesting. I think now I suppose would be 368 00:30:36.640 --> 00:30:40.279 a great stopping point. What do you ladies think that works for me? 369 00:30:41.079 --> 00:30:45.000 Yeah? I think yeah, because I mean they're here, they're replenishing themselves, 370 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:49.559 and that's what we're gonna do before we do part two. Nice transition. 371 00:30:49.720 --> 00:30:56.359 Justin well, hey, you know, not my first road on the 372 00:30:56.759 --> 00:31:00.119 side, right, Yeah, And I do a minute. I do like 373 00:31:02.119 --> 00:31:06.319 detailing. When we first started the episode in Justin was kind of detailing their 374 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:14.119 life briefly, kind of up until everybody died night all right, next and 375 00:31:14.400 --> 00:32:00.160 a little bit more next time. I know, I kind of, I 376 00:32:00.279 --> 00:33:15.240 don't, and I don't and