1
00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:05,960
Hey everyone, I recently wrapped my
other show, Unsafe Spaces. It's an

2
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:13,599
investigative serialized true crime podcast that looks
into Stephen Lorenzo and Scott Schweikert, two

3
00:00:13,839 --> 00:00:18,960
gay men who were targeting and murdering
other gay men in the Tampa Bay area

4
00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:23,559
of Florida. Season one is complete
and bingeable now, So while you're waiting

5
00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:28,000
for the next season of true crime
bullshit coming next month, I'll be sharing

6
00:00:28,039 --> 00:00:33,119
the first four episodes of Unsafe Spaces
with you here. Listen and then head

7
00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:38,359
on over to Unsafe Spaces and Apple
Podcasts or wherever you're listening now and binge

8
00:00:38,399 --> 00:01:06,239
the rest of the season. This
is a studio both and production. On

9
00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:12,319
November two of two thousand and four, Stephen Lorenzo implicated Scott Schweikert and Scott

10
00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:21,239
Schwikert alone in the disappearance of Jason
Galehouse. This followed a month's long online

11
00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:26,560
sting operation wherein Scott Schweiker admitted to
assaulting a man in Tampa, Florida,

12
00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:32,879
among other things, and following an
interview with witness A, a man who

13
00:01:32,879 --> 00:01:40,760
claimed that Stephen Lorenzo and his friend
Scott drugged and assaulted him, and after

14
00:01:40,799 --> 00:01:46,959
reviewing dozens of chats between Stephen Lorenzo
and Scott Schweikert, which discussed drugging,

15
00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:53,760
kidnapping, assaulting, and even murdering
gay men. The next day, on

16
00:01:53,799 --> 00:01:59,719
November third of two thousand and four, a search warrant was finally executed on

17
00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:07,360
Skis S. Gott Schweikert's family home
in Peru, Illinois. Throughout the search,

18
00:02:07,479 --> 00:02:14,199
police recovered and seized a compact Presario
laptop, computer and one external ZIP

19
00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:20,759
drive, Scott's cell phone, a
business card belonging to Stephen Lorenzo, Scott's

20
00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:29,800
checkbook, and some unspecified documents.
During the search, Detective Columbia and agent

21
00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:35,280
Albrecht briefly interviewed Scott on the premises, and Scott told them that he did

22
00:02:35,319 --> 00:02:39,159
in fact know Stephen Lorenzo, that
he had briefly lived in Orlando, Florida,

23
00:02:39,199 --> 00:02:44,319
from October of two thousand three through
December of that same year, and

24
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,080
that while living in the area,
he had met Lorenzo online, and that

25
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:53,800
not long after meeting online, Scott
drove to Tampa and met Lorenzo in person

26
00:02:53,879 --> 00:02:58,280
at a bar. He said that
during that meeting, Lorenzo told him he'd

27
00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:05,039
been in trouble with the law or
co excharges. Scott said that shortly after

28
00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,479
leaving Florida, he lost touch with
Lorenzo, and that the pair hadn't had

29
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:15,599
any contact since around April of two
thousand and four. He then casually mentioned

30
00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:21,719
the incident with witness A, and
the police immediately began to mirandize Scott,

31
00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,120
at which point he informed them that
if he was read as rights, he

32
00:03:25,199 --> 00:03:30,919
would not talk without an attorney present, and so police ended the interview.

33
00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,680
Two weeks later, Tampa Pede returned
to Stephen Lorenzo's house with their second search

34
00:03:42,719 --> 00:03:47,319
warrant. Upon arrival, they found
that Jason Snelling, Lorenzo's former roommate who

35
00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:53,319
was involved with Lorenzo in the alleged
stocking of Snelling's ex boyfriend, was now

36
00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:59,719
living in Lorenzo's home on West Powatton
Avenue. During the search, Snelling advised

37
00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:05,639
him Pupiti that Stephen Lorenzo had given
him other printed AOL instant messenger chats chats

38
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:13,080
which Snelling then handed off to Lorenzo's
attorney, chats that the police had never

39
00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:20,480
seen. Throughout this second search,
police recovered and seized an E machine computer,

40
00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:26,959
an assortment of floppy and compact discs, a videotape, a small green

41
00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:32,279
plastic baggie found hidden between compact discs
and Lorenzo's office, and an electronic organizer.

42
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,480
About a month later, on January
twelfth of two thousand and five,

43
00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:45,800
police conducted a more formal interview with
Jason Snelling, and Jason advised that over

44
00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,920
the course of the last twelve months
or so, he'd provided Lorenzo's attorney with

45
00:04:48,959 --> 00:04:54,399
several packages, including one as recent
as December of two thousand and four,

46
00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,399
But when pressed on the contents of
those packages, Snelling requested to speak with

47
00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:08,720
an attorney and the interview ended.
Even though Lorenzo had implicated Schweikert in the

48
00:05:08,759 --> 00:05:14,319
disappearance of Jason galehouse, Tampa Pedee
were more interested in Lorenzo's long list of

49
00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:18,800
assaults, his drug charges, and
the very damaging items seized from his home.

50
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:27,639
They began preparing for a grand jury
and started lining up witnesses. By

51
00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,759
January of two thousand and five,
the police had already tracked down at least

52
00:05:30,959 --> 00:05:36,759
twelve different Florida men who had alleged
that Stephen Lorenzo drugged, kidnapped, and

53
00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:44,000
or assaulted them, incidents that spanned
from nineteen ninety eight through late two thousand

54
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:50,439
and three. Seven of those men
agreed to provide testimony for the federal trial,

55
00:05:51,079 --> 00:05:55,759
and witness Ay and several others were
on board to provide testimony for the

56
00:05:55,800 --> 00:06:00,720
state trial. Two of those men
had since died and two had moved out

57
00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:08,959
of the country. On April thirteen
of two thousand and five, Assistant US

58
00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:15,399
Attorney Percelli called Detective Columbia with Critical
News. Forensic analysis of Lorenzo's computers and

59
00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:23,040
hard drives found and recovered a previously
deleted file, a file that contained twenty

60
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:31,720
photos. The photos were of Michael
Walcolt's There appeared to be blood around his

61
00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:39,319
mouth, ligature marks around his wrists
and ankles, and obvious signs of lividity.

62
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:46,399
Michael Walcoltz was dead in all twenty
photos, which were taken in Stephen

63
00:06:46,399 --> 00:06:51,279
Lorenzo's living room and bathroom, and
at least one of the photos, an

64
00:06:51,399 --> 00:07:03,279
undetermined individual is holding Michael's feet to
pose him for the picture. One week

65
00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:09,000
after it was determined that Stephen Lorenzo
had photos of Michael Walcolts dead inside of

66
00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,160
his home, a third search was
conducted on two thirteen West Powaton Avenue.

67
00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:18,560
This search included a detached garage and
apartment on the property in addition to the

68
00:07:18,639 --> 00:07:24,839
main residence, and again, Jason
Snelling was at the house at the time

69
00:07:24,879 --> 00:07:29,519
of the search, and he told
officers that most of Lorenzo's furniture was in

70
00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:34,720
a storage facility near by, a
storage unit that was rented in Lorenzo's sister's

71
00:07:34,839 --> 00:07:42,600
name. From the main residence,
Officers seized a belt from Lorenzo's closet,

72
00:07:42,759 --> 00:07:46,839
which was present in several of the
photos of Michael Walcolt's In the garage,

73
00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,639
Cadaver dogs hit on multiple areas,
as well as one in the back yard

74
00:07:51,639 --> 00:07:58,560
adjacent to the garage, and officers
discovered a recently poured concrete area near where

75
00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:03,079
the dogs had hit, and so
Tampa Pede filed for search warrants to dig

76
00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:09,000
in the backyard, seese and search
Lorenzo's jeep Cherokee, and to search Lorenzo's

77
00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:18,639
off site storage facility. On May
nine, Tampa Pede returned to Lorenzo's house

78
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,319
to meet with Jason Snelling. They
had something they needed him to see.

79
00:08:24,279 --> 00:08:30,079
In the analysis of the hundreds of
photos found on Stephen Lorenzo's computers and hard

80
00:08:30,199 --> 00:08:35,960
drives. There were approximately sixty photos
of one man who appeared to be unconscious

81
00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:41,200
and in various stages of undress,
and Tampa Peade believed that man to be

82
00:08:41,279 --> 00:08:46,960
Jason Snelling. When they showed him
the photos, Jason began to cry.

83
00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:52,840
He confirmed that he was the man
in the photos and that he had no

84
00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:58,039
recollection of them ever being taken.
He advised that on the day that the

85
00:08:58,039 --> 00:09:05,440
photos were dated, he had moved
back into Lorenzo's house. He recalled drinking

86
00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,480
wine and chatting with Lorenzo in the
living room that night, and then waking

87
00:09:09,559 --> 00:09:15,840
up fully clothed on the couch some
time later. He said that he didn't

88
00:09:15,879 --> 00:09:20,399
recall ever taking any illegal substances,
taking his clothes off, or any photos

89
00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:24,399
being taken of him. He also
confirmed that he and Lorenzo did not have

90
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:31,679
any sort of romantic relationship nor any
sexual relationship at the time, and it

91
00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:37,799
was in that moment that Jason Snelling
realized that his best friend had likely drugged

92
00:09:37,799 --> 00:10:01,679
and assaulted him without him ever even
knowing. The day after sharing photos of

93
00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:07,840
his presumed assault with Jason Snelling,
Tampa Pedi and Assistant US Attorney Picelli met

94
00:10:07,879 --> 00:10:13,440
with Scott Schweikert at the federal courthouse. They advised him that he was being

95
00:10:13,519 --> 00:10:20,440
subpoenaed for the grand jury in their
case against Stephen Lorenzo, and when asked

96
00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,759
if he had or needed an attorney, Scott said that he didn't have one

97
00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:28,080
and that he didn't need one.
He was ready and willing to cooperate,

98
00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:33,759
at which point he was informed that
at that time he was only a subject

99
00:10:33,799 --> 00:10:41,039
of the investigation and not a target, and so Scott Schweikert began to share

100
00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:45,960
his account of what happened on the
weekend of December nineteenth of two thousand and

101
00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:56,639
three. Scott told investigators that after
meeting Lorenzo online, they met in person

102
00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:01,039
twice in Tampa. At first,
he denied knowing about Jason Galehouse and Michael

103
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:05,960
Wachold's, and when shown a photo
of Jason Gailhouse, he said that he

104
00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:09,799
wasn't the person that they met on
December nineteenth at twenty six oh six,

105
00:11:11,919 --> 00:11:20,960
but very quickly he changed his story
within several minutes. He went on to

106
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,200
tell detectives that on December nineteenth of
two thousand three, he and Stephen Lorenzo

107
00:11:26,279 --> 00:11:31,399
went to twenty six oh six to
look for a sub and while there they

108
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:37,600
met Jason Giehouse and the three of
them went back to Lorenzo's house to have

109
00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:43,039
sex. According to Schweikert, at
some point during the sex, he went

110
00:11:43,080 --> 00:11:48,960
to the bathroom to masturbate, and
when he returned, Stephen Lorenzo had Jason

111
00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:54,039
Giehouse in a chokehold. He said
that fifteen minutes later he realized that Jason

112
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,799
was dead, and that Lorenzo forced
him to help carry Jason Galehouse's body to

113
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,399
the garage, where the two wrapped
him in a tarp and then placed him

114
00:12:03,399 --> 00:12:07,600
on a trailer. He said that
Lorenzo said he was going to dispose of

115
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:16,080
Jason's remains at a nearby landfill,
but that Scott immediately returned to Orlando,

116
00:12:16,279 --> 00:12:22,919
and this is what Scott testified to
at the grand jury. But as he

117
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:28,240
walked back to the police headquarters with
the detectives following his testimony, Scott began

118
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:33,559
to add more detail to his story. He said that while in the garage,

119
00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:39,879
he helped Stephen Lorenzo dismember Jason Galehouse. He said that the pair placed

120
00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:45,679
Jason's remains in multiple plastic construction trash
bags, and then they drove to various

121
00:12:45,759 --> 00:12:52,600
dumpsters west of Lorenzo's house in Tampa
to discard each bag individually, and that

122
00:12:52,639 --> 00:12:56,799
he did not, in fact drive
back to Orlando that night. Instead,

123
00:12:58,639 --> 00:13:01,919
he stayed with Lorenzo. He said
that he was afraid of Lorenzo, but

124
00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,759
for reasons unclear, not only stayed
with him, but returned to twenty six

125
00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:13,799
oh six with him the following night, and that's when the pair met Michael

126
00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:24,519
Walcolts. Scott told detectives that after
meeting Michael Walcolts at twenty six oh six,

127
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,879
Michael agreed to go back to Stephen
Lorenzo's house with them. He followed

128
00:13:28,919 --> 00:13:33,200
them there in his jeep, and
upon their arrival, Scott saw Lorenzo give

129
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:39,440
Walcolts an unknown substance from his pocket. He said that shortly thereafter, Scott

130
00:13:39,639 --> 00:13:45,799
once again excused himself to use the
bathroom, that while he was in the

131
00:13:45,799 --> 00:13:52,000
bathroom, he heard Lorenzo call out
for help. He ran out to the

132
00:13:52,039 --> 00:13:58,360
living room and found Lorenzo trying to
handcuff Michael Walcols, and he assisted Lorenzo

133
00:13:58,600 --> 00:14:05,200
in putting the handcuffs on him Michael, and then Lorenzo began suffocating him.

134
00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:13,159
Scott said he watched as Michael slowly
died, and then he helped Lorenzo wrap

135
00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,559
Michael's body in a floral bed sheet
and move him into the back of Michael's

136
00:14:16,639 --> 00:14:22,279
jeep. Lorenzo then told him to
follow him in Michael's jeep to a dumping

137
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:30,559
sight. According to Scott, Lorenzo
was speeding and driving erratically. At one

138
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,320
point, he rushed through a yellow
light, which forced Scott to run the

139
00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:39,360
red light. Scott was certain that
Lorenzo was either trying to lose him or

140
00:14:39,399 --> 00:14:46,120
get him pulled over, driving Michael's
car with Michael's body in the back,

141
00:14:48,399 --> 00:14:54,320
but the pair eventually arrived at the
Camden Bay Point apartments, where Michael's jeep

142
00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:01,360
and remains were discovered on January sixth. After they abandoned Michael and his jeep

143
00:15:01,399 --> 00:15:07,080
there, they returned to Lorenzo's house, where Schwekert gathered his belongings and immediately

144
00:15:07,279 --> 00:15:13,039
returned home to Orlando. So to
be clear, according to Scott, Schweikert,

145
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,480
he just happened to be in the
bathroom when both the attack on gaelhouse

146
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:26,519
and the attack on wocklets occurred despite
extensive searches of the dumpster. Scott claims

147
00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:33,440
they disposed Jason Gaelhouse's remains in and
the Tampa area dumps and transfer stations.

148
00:15:33,399 --> 00:15:50,000
Jason Gaelhouse's remains have never been recovered. When I started writing this show,

149
00:15:50,639 --> 00:15:56,960
I wasn't sure how I felt about
Lorenzo's and Schweikert's relationship. It's something the

150
00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:03,159
researchers, Doctor Scott, and I
went back and forth over. Was Schweikert

151
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:10,919
a patsy or a criminal mastermind?
Was Lorenzo a calculating killer or an idiot

152
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,559
who Schwekert used to take the fall? Was there a dominant submissive dynamic within

153
00:16:15,639 --> 00:16:22,840
their own relationship, and if so, who was the dom Some days,

154
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:27,639
it felt like Schweikert had seamlessly set
up Lorenzo to take the hit for his

155
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:33,519
own crimes. He sought out Lorenzo
online and then went to where he lived

156
00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:38,559
to commit the crimes in Lorenzo's own
backyard, and then he left. But

157
00:16:38,679 --> 00:16:45,120
other days it seemed like Lorenzo was
using Scott, that Lorenzo had a long

158
00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:51,559
prior history of violence, and he
was not only using Schweikert to escalate that

159
00:16:51,679 --> 00:16:56,720
violence, but to also eventually pin
any crimes he committed with Schweikert. On

160
00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:03,480
Schweikert, all of our opinions changed
almost from day to day, and while

161
00:17:03,519 --> 00:17:07,759
Tampa Pede, at least externally,
were putting all their energy into Lorenzo,

162
00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:15,920
it seemed that behind the scenes they
were having a similar debate. But with

163
00:17:15,039 --> 00:17:21,440
Scott's confession that he helped dismember Jason
Galehouse's body and then helped dispose of Michael

164
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:26,480
Walcholtz's body, Tampa Pede had enough
to arrest him, and on May twentieth

165
00:17:26,519 --> 00:17:30,079
of two thousand and five, a
year and a half after the murders of

166
00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:37,000
Jason and Michael, they finally arrested
Scott Schweikert, six months after they arrested

167
00:17:37,039 --> 00:17:47,599
Stephen Lorenzo. In the week following
Schweikert's arrest, Tampa Pedi conducted multiple interviews

168
00:17:47,599 --> 00:17:52,519
with people who knew Scott, starting
with a former cellmate of his. On

169
00:17:52,599 --> 00:17:56,799
May thirty. First, they met
with a man who served time with Scott

170
00:17:56,799 --> 00:18:00,960
in two thousand one, following a
duy That's got received in Georgia while living

171
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:07,960
in South Carolina. It was one
of many DUI's and driving violations Scott would

172
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:12,400
receive in that period of time.
He said that while in prison with Scott

173
00:18:12,799 --> 00:18:19,000
that Scott portrayed himself as a straight
man despite being very effeminate. He said

174
00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:23,200
that Scott mentioned living in Florida for
a brief time prior to that arrest,

175
00:18:25,039 --> 00:18:29,079
but that he left not long after
moving there because he hated the humidity,

176
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:34,720
heat, and bugs. This statement
is interesting for a few reasons. I

177
00:18:34,839 --> 00:18:41,480
mentioned last episode that based on the
alleged first online chat between Lorenzo and Schweitkirt,

178
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:47,440
it seemed like they had definitely met
prior, and here we had a

179
00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:52,240
former cellmate of Scott stating that Scott
had briefly lived in Florida at some point

180
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,480
prior to two thousand. This is
not, by any means proof that there

181
00:18:56,519 --> 00:19:00,880
was a prior relationship, but it's
an interesting note because it does place Scott

182
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:07,440
in the area years prior to that
alleged verse conversation in October of two thousand

183
00:19:07,440 --> 00:19:15,160
and three. Second, it shines
a light on Scott's relationship with homosexuality and

184
00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:22,920
masculinity. Scott tried to present as
straight in jail despite being considered a feminine

185
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,359
Scott had also talked about hating twinks
and effeminate men in his online chats with

186
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:33,680
Lorenzo. It's representative of a gay
self loathing that came up over and over

187
00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:37,480
again, not just in my conversations
with doctor Scott, but with my other

188
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:42,880
gay friends about how these crimes occurred
for as long as they did and how

189
00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:49,880
they might have affected the greater gay
community in Tampa. My name is Drew

190
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:55,799
Mackey. I'm a writer and creative
person living in Los Angeles, and I

191
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,319
happen to have a podcast. It
is not about murder. It is about

192
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,480
LGB episodes of classics that come such
a much lighter subject than drue crime.

193
00:20:04,839 --> 00:20:10,680
Here's some of my conversation with Drew
Mackie, who hosts the Gayest Episode Ever

194
00:20:10,799 --> 00:20:15,039
podcast. So, I guess,
in realizing that you at least were attracted

195
00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:22,599
to other men, how did you
feel or how did culture, media that

196
00:20:22,599 --> 00:20:27,400
people around you make you feel about
that? Bad? Like really bad?

197
00:20:27,559 --> 00:20:34,279
Because I don't know if you remember
what the depiction of gay people on TV

198
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,119
was like in the nineties, but
it actually wasn't always great, and this

199
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,640
is something that I talk about a
lot of my podcast. For example,

200
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:47,799
the entire character of Chandler on Friends
has a running joke where he's always been

201
00:20:47,839 --> 00:20:52,480
mistaken for gay, and whenever it
happens unmistakably, it is a bad thing.

202
00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:56,160
He does not want to be seen
as gay. It is something that

203
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,680
people tease him about. And when
you're a little kid who listen in to

204
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,319
a small town who doesn't have access
to rural representations of resentations to real gay

205
00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:08,000
people, or you certainly don't know
any that is sort of what you internalize.

206
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,920
And to this day, going back
and rewatching some of these old TV

207
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:18,720
shows or movies, I'll realize that
I internalize something from popular culture that my

208
00:21:18,759 --> 00:21:19,839
band is just like, well,
this is what it's like. And I've

209
00:21:19,839 --> 00:21:22,920
held in the back of my head
throughout my adult life until I finally like

210
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,799
catch on to it and interrogate it, and I was like, this is

211
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:29,960
a fucked up thing that I don't
need to be thinking anymore, but I

212
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,720
actually need to catch it before I
can do that. Yeah. I think

213
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:40,039
it's interesting because we focus a lot
on kind of the more aggressive homophobia,

214
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:45,759
you know, being called names or
people voting against gay rights, and I

215
00:21:45,799 --> 00:21:51,960
think often the more painful I guess
anti gay experiences growing up, or those

216
00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:56,960
more nuanced ones where it is lighter
and more normalized to just be like ooh,

217
00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,799
don't think of me as gay,
or like ooh, that's gross,

218
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,559
or using gay as a pejorative.
And I think as gay men we often

219
00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,359
overlook that when we're interrogating or trying
to heal, But those are the ones

220
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,759
that are more pervasive because they're quieter
and they happen more frequently. I completely

221
00:22:12,759 --> 00:22:19,200
agree, And I don't know how
I come across to people. Usually gay

222
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:25,799
men figure out I'm gay pretty quickly, but I don't necessarily think that straight

223
00:22:25,839 --> 00:22:29,839
people do. And I have a
hard time even thinking of how to express

224
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:36,400
this phenomenon in words without sounding happy
about it, because like straight passing is

225
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:40,119
such a loaded phrase, and I
don't ever want to make it seem like

226
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,759
I'm hiding. But then I try
to think about how do I conduct myself,

227
00:22:42,759 --> 00:22:45,119
Like how do I stand? How
do I talk? How do I

228
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,960
dress? And am I doing all
these things because this is who I am

229
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,359
and I figured out who I am
as an adult, or am I still

230
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:57,119
in some way trying to guard against
straight people figuring out that I'm gay because

231
00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:06,039
I fear big a tree, but
also that like soft discrimination that is bad,

232
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:12,039
and I still get when I go
back to our hometown, how often

233
00:23:12,079 --> 00:23:19,319
are you thinking about whether or how
you're presenting is gay? A lot of

234
00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:23,720
times when I go on a first
date is something that I'm putting a lot

235
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,519
of thought into because you know,
like it's it's a first date, so

236
00:23:27,559 --> 00:23:33,599
you're hyper aware of how you're presenting
yourself. And then I try to think

237
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:37,400
about, like how am I like
presenting or dressing differently than if I were

238
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,880
meeting like a non gay man for
a non date for the first time,

239
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:48,240
and I don't I talked to my
therapist about this kind of stuff a lot,

240
00:23:48,279 --> 00:23:51,319
but like you can really trip yourself
up trying to figure out who you

241
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:57,599
are and how much how much of
what you're putting out there is a reaction

242
00:23:57,720 --> 00:24:00,359
to what's happened to you, and
like reaction to stuff that's like all in

243
00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:04,839
your head hypothetical that maybe hasn't even
happened to you yet, but like often

244
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:11,279
often, And then like recently I
went back to I went back home,

245
00:24:11,759 --> 00:24:15,880
and you know, I'm packing my
suitcase with some clothes to change into,

246
00:24:15,319 --> 00:24:21,319
and I'm really conscious of like self
editing for something I might wear to my

247
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:23,240
day to day life in Los Angeles
versus a small town I grew up in.

248
00:24:26,079 --> 00:24:27,880
Yeah, it's funny. I didn't
even notice I did it, but

249
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:32,599
my partner pointed out. And I'm
out to my dad, but you know,

250
00:24:33,799 --> 00:24:37,559
I've been out to him for almost
twenty years, and even today,

251
00:24:37,559 --> 00:24:40,319
if I get on the phone with
him, my voice drops an octave,

252
00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:45,799
just like weird stuff like that that
you don't even realize you're doing, or

253
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:51,839
you really have to be conscious of. It's strange you talked about editing yourself

254
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:56,480
or being aware of, you know, or thoughtful of how you're presenting yourself

255
00:24:56,519 --> 00:25:00,799
on dates. Is that something?
Do you feel comfortable around other gay men?

256
00:25:03,079 --> 00:25:07,759
Yeah? I don't really, I
don't know. I guess I had

257
00:25:07,799 --> 00:25:10,880
an idea for what living in a
big city was going to be like when

258
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,400
I was a kid, And LA
is relatively safe for me, and I

259
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,880
can go to most of the places
I would go on my own, and

260
00:25:18,799 --> 00:25:23,559
I don't really think about my personal
safety aside from being like a pedestrian who

261
00:25:23,599 --> 00:25:30,200
might run over by a car.
But I also have in my head some

262
00:25:30,279 --> 00:25:37,799
anecdotal stories of men just like me
who were who were taking advantage of who

263
00:25:37,799 --> 00:25:45,440
are sexually assaulted and or sometimes physically
assaulted without a sexual component. And it's

264
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:53,400
weird how those anecdotes don't make me
feel more personally scared. They don't,

265
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:57,480
oddly, and I can't really explain
why not do you go to gay bars

266
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:03,839
or gay clubs often? I did
before pandemic. I just am very lazy

267
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:08,079
post lockdown, but I've been a
few times. Yeah, what's that experience

268
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:18,200
like for you? It was something
I didn't really think twice about before pandemic.

269
00:26:18,519 --> 00:26:23,240
Having had a break from interactions with
groups of people, I am slightly

270
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:30,960
less comfortable like injecting myself into a
group dynamic pretty much anywhere about even at

271
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:37,039
a gay bar. And then a
few times I've been in a place like

272
00:26:37,079 --> 00:26:41,720
that where I've been aware that,
like, oh, this person's being handsy

273
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,880
in a way that is maybe flirty
or maybe just friendly, and that's who

274
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:51,240
they are, but I'm not super
comfortable with it and needing to try to

275
00:26:51,279 --> 00:26:55,200
figure out a way to like extricate
myself from the situation in a way that

276
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:00,119
doesn't feel rude, which is just
not something that happened earlier in my life.

277
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,680
Yeah, it's interesting I remember coming
out, and you know, you're

278
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,799
repressed sexually for so long, and
then all of a sudden, you're you

279
00:27:08,799 --> 00:27:11,440
know, usually if you leave your
small town, you're in a gay space

280
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:17,559
and you can kind of go buck
wild. But there's this weird push and

281
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:25,400
pull between wanting a supportive community and
then being looked at as like a sex

282
00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:30,920
object. And I had a really
hard time, like finding my identity as

283
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:37,319
a gay man that was not entirely
steeped in sex. Yeah. Yeah,

284
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,200
it's I don't know how anyone can
get that right away. Maybe some people

285
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:47,359
are emotionally intelligent enough to figure that
out right away, but I think you

286
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:55,799
kind of have to do that through
practice and maybe making some choices that you

287
00:27:55,799 --> 00:28:00,599
would not have made a few years
down the line, you know. Yeah,

288
00:28:00,839 --> 00:28:03,319
do you feel like you fit in
with a gay community? No?

289
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:15,640
Why not? Because I feel I
don't know, it was weird, so

290
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,400
I didn't fit in, like all
the way growing up, I'm like,

291
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,279
oh, something's off. And then
when I figured out I was good,

292
00:28:21,279 --> 00:28:22,720
I'm like, oh that's it.
And for a while that did the trick.

293
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:26,960
And then as I got older,
I was like, I feel like

294
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:32,960
everyone here is operating under they have
the same operating system and I have something

295
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,240
that's slightly different. And I don't
know quite what the difference is, but

296
00:28:37,079 --> 00:28:44,960
just reactions to stuff is different.
I don't like dancing, and this is

297
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,920
a weird thing. And I think
a lot about self presentation and like being

298
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:55,799
comfortable in my own body and why
I am not someone I'll dance at weddings

299
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:57,640
and that's like not a big deal. But like if I'm with a group

300
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:00,359
of people and they're like, we
should go dance, and I'm like,

301
00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:02,839
I think I'm good, I just
have no desire to go do that.

302
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,400
And that's one of those things where
I'm like, I think my brain is

303
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:11,079
wired a little differently. And I
don't know whether that's a like neurological thing

304
00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:21,920
or if it is a product of
having so many pent up feelings about performative

305
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:27,079
masculinity that I don't like myself enjoy
certain things. When you spend your formative

306
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:32,319
years being told that the world will
hate you for loving who you love,

307
00:29:32,759 --> 00:29:37,839
it's hard to believe you could ever
truly love or be loved, especially as

308
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:59,640
yourself. The same week that Scott
Schweikert was arrested Tampa, Peedi returned to

309
00:29:59,759 --> 00:30:04,359
A's house on West Powaton Avenue to
search the yard and dig under the concrete

310
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:11,039
slab. They found nothing of evidentiary
value in either search, but while they

311
00:30:11,039 --> 00:30:19,160
were there, they found Jason Snelling
smoking a cigarette in the backyard. Jason

312
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:26,559
apologized for being confrontational and uncooperative at
first, and he said that he was

313
00:30:26,599 --> 00:30:32,559
ready to cooperate with their investigation.
He said that the case had damaged him

314
00:30:32,599 --> 00:30:41,200
severely, that he was essentially hiding
out from the world. He was parking

315
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,880
his car in a back alley and
then climbing over the fence just to avoid

316
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:51,319
the press. He said that when
he visited Lorenzo in jail and confronted him

317
00:30:51,319 --> 00:30:56,759
about the photos, Lorenzo gasol at
him. He told him that not only

318
00:30:56,799 --> 00:31:02,920
did Jason know about the photos,
but he consented to the photos. Lorenzo

319
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,680
told him that the police were just
trying to manipulate him and turn him against

320
00:31:06,839 --> 00:31:12,680
Lorenzo, but Jason said that he
didn't believe him. He knew that he

321
00:31:12,759 --> 00:31:19,960
hadn't consented to the photos. He
affirmed he didn't remember the photos ever being

322
00:31:21,039 --> 00:31:32,200
taken. He said that he was
still incredibly upset, but also that he

323
00:31:32,319 --> 00:31:45,519
forgave Stephen Lorenzo. Stephen Lorenzo was
his friend. As Tampa Peedi continued interviewing

324
00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:49,359
Scott Schweikert's friends and acquaintances, they
were quickly able to place him in Fort

325
00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:55,400
Lauderdale, Florida multiple times between nineteen
ninety nine and two thousand and four,

326
00:31:56,279 --> 00:32:00,880
including several occasions where he was reportedly
traveling with un named hustlers or street people.

327
00:32:04,759 --> 00:32:10,960
Interestingly, Stephen Lorenzo had a condo
in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, even

328
00:32:12,039 --> 00:32:16,079
more so, On June twenty seventh
of two thousand and four, several weeks

329
00:32:16,079 --> 00:32:22,759
after Lorenzo's house was first searched and
months before Schweykert would even be implicated,

330
00:32:23,759 --> 00:32:28,559
Mark Jackson, a thirty five year
old gay man, disappeared from an apartment

331
00:32:28,599 --> 00:32:38,839
building directly across the street from that
condo. Was Stephen Lorenzo dumb enough to

332
00:32:38,839 --> 00:32:45,279
commit a murder while on the police's
radar, or was Scott Schweikert smart enough

333
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:51,759
to abduct someone from Lorenzo's own backyard
while he was on the police's radar?

334
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,480
Well, I also wanted to say
I loved list catching up on the episodes,

335
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:06,519
and I ran through the most recent
one twice because your narrative actually took

336
00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:15,599
me in a slightly different direction and
understanding regarding the more this is where it

337
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,680
gets confusing using these terms, the
more dominant of the two of the personalities,

338
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:25,799
and the driver I really thought was
Lorenzo. And then I'm realizing,

339
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:30,680
oh no, no, no,
no, that this was almost almost equal.

340
00:33:31,039 --> 00:33:35,960
Like as far as them motivating each
other, they just have very different

341
00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,680
personality types. But you know not, couldn't be a worse combination for two

342
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:57,599
people to find each other. We
have been Harry came who were so calm

343
00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:15,519
and so do I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't tell that if I read

344
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:37,079
so we have been two it,
or I read call what you work?

345
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:50,280
Call? You couldn't do that.
Now, you couldn't tell that. Nothing.

346
00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:06,280
You couldn't do that. I mean
noth This episode was written, researched,

347
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:09,360
edited, and produced by Me Your
host Josh Hallmark, with additional research

348
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:15,880
by Kaz. This episode featured Doctor
Scott from the La Not So Confidential podcast

349
00:35:15,159 --> 00:35:20,920
and Drew Mackey from the Gayest Episode
Ever podcast. This episode was made possible

350
00:35:20,960 --> 00:35:24,280
by the following Patreon producers, Adrian
I, Yellow, Amelia Hancock, Amy

351
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,880
Basel, Annette El, Benjamin Choppathong, Casey Jensen, Richardson, Happy Birthday,

352
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,320
Dana Keith, Doctor, Jill Cooper, Drew Vipond, Halle Reed,

353
00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:37,159
Jessica, Ali Hoadzig, Gillian Natale, John O'Leary, Kendall, c Kimberly,

354
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,519
Kay, Lauren f Linley, Tuscoffmanolis
Bullcose, megancap Sewell, Mike Sherman,

355
00:35:40,599 --> 00:35:45,599
Nicole and Dennis Henry, Sarah King, sc Shannon Foster, Shelley Brewer,

356
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,159
Tuesday Woodworth, Zach Ignotowitz, Warren, Beth McNally, John Comrie,

357
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,480
Jordan Taylor, Carly McNutt, Lana
Sarah See, and Lydia Fiedler. Thank

358
00:35:52,519 --> 00:35:57,559
you to True Crime Bullshit's newest Patreon
supporters, Renee O, Tammy P,

359
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:00,159
Sarah P, Wendy, Joe,
Rachael Beach, Josh h not Me,

360
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:06,199
Sidney Gabriella, Julia, j Amy
P, Tasha s and Chelsea. To

361
00:36:06,239 --> 00:36:10,039
support the investigation, go to Patreon
dot com, slash Studio both and.

362
00:36:10,519 --> 00:36:15,440
This episode featured music by Evolving Scapes, Grizzly Bill, Light in the Shadow,

363
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:22,920
Hypnagogia, Haskel Rez and Yotama Gone
with featured music by Chris Garnot.

364
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:37,840
I didn't believe you. You didn't
believe me either. You don't know me.

365
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:44,960
I don't know you. In fact, I don't know you well.

366
00:36:45,079 --> 00:37:29,880
I was always sure. Wait walla, the door we have been have me

367
00:37:30,039 --> 00:37:37,559
come. You are so calm and
so cool. I couldn't do that now.

368
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:51,719
I couldn't do that nothing all.
I couldn't do that free now,

369
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,480
oh oh oh oh