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and welcome to another episode of the Hardwood Knox Podcast. This is Adam from
We'll here with my fabulous co host Dan Favali, and we have an exciting
episode for you today. That's gonna kick off with some talk about the biggest
names who have found themselves in trade rumors during this early stage of the NBA
offseason. That's Bradley Beal, Victor Oladipo, Drew Holiday, and Chris Paul.
We're going to transition from that into a mailbag as we answer questions that
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Now, with that all out of the way, Dan, how's it
going. I am doing well over here relative to the world crumbling around us
as we anxiously wait on pins and needles for the election results. But I
no complaints beyond that. Everyone can complain about that and there are people who
will be far more impacted by the results than I, but fingers crossed for
who will probably by the time this is published, hopefully have been announced as
the winner. I was gonna say, I hope that this intro is outdated
by the time it goes live. That would be great. Yeah, And
if it's not, damn, that's all I could sea. Yeah, I've
I've devoted way too much of my mental energy to just like analyzing which counties
have ballots remaining and what the vote breakdown looks like. And it's it's like,
I don't even want to use the word distracting, but it's for me
personally, it's been incredibly tough to focus, like when we're supposed to be
getting work done, and look, this is let's just call it straight up.
The election is the reason we only have one podcast this week. It's
the reason that podcast is coming at the end of the week. It was
gonna come just before it, but we had a cancelation for a guest that
was coming on. It's just been something that's on every one's minds and it's
impossible not to follow if you care about humanity at all. It's just I
can't look away and I want to. And you can call it doom scrolling.
You can call it an inundation or an overflow of information which isn't necessarily
helpful because of how reactionary the takes. Then are you remember election night where
the people were reacting to the betting markets and then they wake up to like
different results altogether. There was the you know you talk to this about me.
It's not something I'd really read up on until after it happened, but
the red mirage that was going on. So it's just it is. It
is exhausting, and it's definitely there's going to be rage and mind fatigue for
more so for people who are not you and I, and so I really
feel for them. But hopefully, like you said that, this this intro
will be outdated by the time the podcast drops. How have you been holding
up though? I'm just I'm emotionally exhausted. I had a lot of emotional
capital in this one. I worked as a precinct leader in Colorado for the
Biden Harris campaign and made a lot of get out the vote efforts and calling
voters in the area and all that. So I'm just I'm ready to see
the results. It paid off in Colorado, and we're just we're waiting,
but yeah, it's I'm just drained. You know, I'm ready to just
feel twenty pounds lighter when the results are announced. I'm with you. And
the other thing that happens with all this is like when you have to do
for us, specifically where we're dealing with sports. I feel like I've enjoyed
my time in sports so much because I understand how inessential I am, But
there's nothing like the inessentiality you feel during a time like this where I just
elected to not even try and schedule. We're trying to figure out what we're
gonna do with these team previews because the season is happening on December twenty second
now, it just seems like so we've been trying to figure out a content
plan for that, but like I can't even bring myself to reach out to
people this week to try and schedule stuff. I'm like, you know,
we'll just have to kick the can until next week. I just can't bring
myself to like I don't want to infringe upon what anyone else is feeling,
and I just feel so I don't even know what the word is I'd feel
embarrassed or stupid to drop into like direct messages are you know, contacts home
and be like, hey, you want to come on and talk about hoops?
Right? Yeah, I mean, you know, with the NBA Math
account, which I run the Twitter account for the most part, we've been
releasing the Crystal Basketball results team by team, and I hope everyone has been
enjoying those. But it just it didn't feel right to release any of those
on Wednesday morning, so you know, we kicked it one day down the
road, and even releasing it Thursday morning just felt a little weird, just
like clogging up people's timelines with these these grades for basketball players when it seems
like such a large portion of our followers of you know, Twitter users in
general are are so invested and piecing together the minutia of this election week.
Yeah. Look, and I run the Blue ire Pods Twitter account and two
of their instagrams, And I haven't really been the past couple of days,
like I've been just more selective about Wednesday, I didn't really post at all,
Like the day after the election is when it felt like that was the
when the information was being digested hardest. I've been more selected there where with
Instagram, like it's not as real time. It's like if you can,
like, I feel like the contents more acceptable there. I do, ever,
also think it's important, like distractions are good, like to take your
mind off of it if you want to. We're not trying to force it
down anyone's throat, but I think talking hoops is cathartic for me. I've
been on a couple of podcasts radio stations this week, So this podcast is
for anyone who needs that distraction or just wants to listen to it, you
know, a few days down the line, because we have some hot button
questions to get to and obviously everyone wants to talk about trade candidates. It's
one of, for me, among the most entertaining parts of the NBA.
Like, fuck the NFL trade deadline. That is boring every year. It's
the same thing that was so boring, and we knew, we knew it
was going to be that way going in, And shame on the NFL for
having right a deadline on election day. That was just a horrible move and
just vintage NFL. Like I wouldn't have expected anything else, but I was
disappointed nonetheless. But anyway, NBA trade stuff. I want to I want
to kick that off by asking you. You know we mentioned the four names
Bradley Beal, Victor Oladipo, Drew Holiday, and Chris Paul. Of those
four, can you rank them in order of most likely to least likely to
be moved during this offseason? Yeah, so I would say I'll go from
least likely to likely Beale is the least likely because I think the Wizards kind
of owe it to themselves to see, like what John Wall looks like next
to Bradley Beal, because if John Wall is any zemblance of John Wall,
the Wizards could actually be really good pretty quickly. And unless they're gonna get
like this huge Godfather offer, which I don't know why, that offer still
wouldn't be there at the trade deadline unless that team goes out and trades for
one of the other guys, I'd say he's least likely. I feel like
Victor Oladipo would be second least likely, just because he's two seasons removed from
that all MBA campaign. He hasn't really looked right since his ruptured quad,
and he was also trying to play through that injury at first. He's on
an expiring contracts that should increase Indiana's urgency to move him, but they could
also sign him to an extension, and maybe he looks at like the landscape
and realize that if there isn't a ton of trade interest in him where teams
aren't going to about the world, does it make it more likely that he
signs for a palatable number with the team Either way, I think you give
it like the start of the season to see if he looks at anything close
to himself, because you have structured that roster very much around him, and
like the Mattis Simonis, like you paid Malcolm Brogden, you paid Miles Turner,
you paid Simonis, you paid Jeremy Lamb. TJ. Warren's going to
be paid. This isn't necessarily roster that can just afford to pivot into a
rebuild. And I don't know how much you're gonna get for him on the
trademarket anyway. I certainly don't think he offers get appreciably worse as time goes
on, because any team that gets him on some level has to view him
as a rental unless they know that he's going to be his all NBA self
the next two are tough. I think Drew Holliday is number two for me,
just because there's a chance that the Pelicans might want to be really good,
even if that's not what David Griffin said, Like and that was just
bizarre. So sh Sharania reports that the Pelicans are entertaining Officer for holiday.
Then David Grifford comes out and essentially confirms it. You just don't see that
particularly well. He said that, he said that they're listening to Offers'll never
see that right either, like's not but I think the semantics are important there,
like where it is, just it's a little bit different the optics of
listening to offers versus calling teams and making offers herself. Right, and he
has that player option for twenty seven plus million dollars after next season, where
it's like, is that a situation where he would opt in or opt out
then look for a longer term deal if he's still with the Pelicans, you
could do you know, the opt in in an extent that might be a
possibility. But because they have like that extra year is right there where maybe
a team could talk themselves into thinking they have two years of him. The
Pelicans might be thrown this out there to see if they can get that Godfather
offer for him, and so if they don't get it, they look at
their roster now and like it could still have a chance to be pretty good.
They're about to pay brandon Ingram anyway, I understand why they might not
want to pay everyone at once. Lonzo Ball is extension eligible, Josh Hart's
extension eligible, Drew Holiday is going to be on a new deal in the
next year or two. Lett does get messy, but they're sort of in
a better position, not even a better position, but they're in a position
to be patient. Whereas in Oklahoma City, where I put Chris Paul at
number one, even though he has that two years and eighty five point six
million dollars left on his contract, that's tough to swallow. But Oklahoma City
is the one team that is clearly going in the opposite direction of their stars
timeline, and so that's why I would think he'd be the most likely to
be moved. I'm curious whether you have any qualms about that ranking. No,
I mean, I feel like I was on the verge of straining a
neck muscle with how much I was nodding in agreement with everything that you were
saying there. Yeah, I totally agree with the order I would have if
I'm rating these out of ten, where ten is they're definitely going to be
moved, one is they're definitely staying in place, and five is like a
fifty fifty chance. I think Biel's like a one. There's no way that
the Wizards are going to move him because they're not going to get the requisite
value back in return, and they have to see what he can do alongside
John Wall at this point, because there's not going to be a successful rebuild
with Wall roster unless this core works, So that's just not happening. I
don't think I get why he's still in the news because he is probably the
most coveted name of all of them if there is any possibility of him being
moved, but I just can't see it happening. Oladipo, I think would
I would give like a four out of ten, where I just I don't
think that the return will be sufficient given the fact that whoever trades for him
will have to sign him to an extension with only one season of seeing what
level he's going to play at. You know, you mentioned the All NBA
the All NBA campaign two years ago. That kind of feels like an aberration
at this point in his career, as we've talked about on previous episodes,
where the sample of substar play is larger than the sample of star caliber caliber
play at this point, and it also came before that injury that has so
clearly had a big impact on him. I think there's a possibility he could
be moved, but Indiana would have to just be desperate and accept a lesser
return Holiday. I would put that at like a six out of ten.
And the uncertainty there for me is just the packages that we've seen and heard
about so far, Like, are do they really want to move him if
like Carris Lavert is the best player they're going to get in return, or
like something equivalent there. It feels like they could decide The Pelicans could decide
to move Holiday for either rebuilding pieces for other current contenders, are players who
could make them a current contender, But at the same time, like even
if he doesn't really fit the timeline because he's thirty years old of the younger
players on the roster, like this team is ready to compete for a playoff
berth in the Western Conference right now with Zion Williamson and Brandon Ingram and Lonzo
Ball and Josh Harden all the other talents they have on the roster, So
that could really go either way. And then Chris Paul is probably like a
ten out of ten, you know, between the social media farewell after they
were eliminated from the playoffs and just the direction that they're clearly going and parting
ways mutually. With Billy Donovan, it just feels like there's absolutely no chance
he's going to finish or even start the season in Oklahoma City, and which
is it's kind of funny to say that because he's objectively probably the toughest contract
to move just because of all that money. But I also think that could
make the asking price lower where if you can get cap relief some immediate and
then most of it coming next year and what would be the final year of
Paul, it doesn't feel like Oklahoma City wants anything back. It's just like,
let's get a draft pick, maybe a young player, and you can
have him because we just don't want to pay the contract. Yeah, I
go back and forth, because he just made second team All MBA, so
it feels like they would want something, but it's also hard to pinpoint a
team that would give up something. The one team that I think should be
willing to go whatever constitutes an all in for Chris Paul, and I'm not
saying that's multiple first and Dante DiVincenzo, but one it would be Milwaukee for
me. And Zach Lower reported that there hasn't been traction on a deal between
Milwaukee and Oklahoma City, and then The Athletic reported earlier into the off season
that the Bucks were not interested in Chris Paul trade, namely because of the
financial ramifications. And that's just an excuse. I'm gonna play real well with
you, honest, isn't it right? I don't know how well at a
players. Some people think he's going to sign the Supermax and if he does,
you have him under lock and key for another, you know, six
years in total. He could request a trade later on, but that might
sort of diminish the urgency with which they can react to this year. I
think you can argue that maybe Drew Holiday is a better fit just because he's
younger. If you want to make Bradley Boda obviously be a better fit as
well. They just don't have the asset firepower to go after them. Maybe
Oladipo is more gettable for that, but then you're dealing with his bare right
and if he's not one, if he's not as good, but then too,
you have to pay him anyway. And no, he's not gonna get
Chris Paul money, but you are dealing with you know what, do we
pay him over the next three to five years? Then, But maybe that's
a better problem to have because for Paul, you're you're ostensibly saying like,
we're going to get the next two years of Chris Paul and that's it.
So I could understand why a little Deepo might be a little bit more attractive,
but we need the asking price to be just right in that scenario.
And so this is just me say and the Bucks need to be hyper aggressive
in going after another shot creator. And I think Chris Paul just I don't
love the Oladipa fit in Milwaukee. I don't know if you feel differently,
but like I don't view him as a great off ball weapon who's going to
help space the court. Like he's been a mediocrew three point shooter at best.
He is best with the ball in his hands, like he would add
a lot of defensive ability and secondary playmaking ability, but you ultimately want the
ball in Janie's hands, right, and I think there's more he could do
off the ball with the way Milwaukee plays, whereas in Indiana it seems like
there's always two non shooters on the court. Still he would he might be
the funkiest fit because you could you run into similar issues with Drew Holiday.
I think he's done more cutting and it's going to be better than that capacity.
Bradley Bell and Chris Paul are like the most seamless fits. And because
you don't have the asset equity to go after Beal, assuming he's even gettable,
That's why Chris Paul is so attractive. And if I'm not saying they
need to wind up with one of these four players, but if CP three
is gettable for you know, if you don't have to give up George hill
Brook, Lopez, Middleton Orhannis, like get the deal done, Like if
it's just really the salary filler route, get the deal done would be where
I stand. Who I am we already ranked it like most likely at least
like a who aside from Beal gets the biggest return though, is it Drew
Holiday, Like that's the player that's going to command the biggest return on this
market, not Beal. I think so. Yeah, aside from Bal,
I think it has to be Holiday just because he's still in the back end
of his prime, but in the prime. Nonetheless, he is such a
seamless fit and such a highly respected competitor throughout the league. You know what
you're going to get. You know that you're going to get a great locker
room leader who is capable of contributing on both ends of the floor and numerous
different roles. There's just there isn't that level of uncertainty, And I kind
of feel like Mike Conley was really bad news for Chris Paul's trade value,
just because teams are going to be looking at just how quickly aging point cards
can fall off that clip. And even if he's coming off an All NBA
season, he's thirty five, you know that he has He's got a lot
of wear and tear from his many many years in the NBA playing at a
high level, and no matter how well he played this last season and really
revitalized his reputation as an elite point guard, that drop off really could come
at any point in time, especially for a smaller point guard. I'm not
saying that it will, just that that nagging thought is going to be in
the back of minds, coupled with the exorbitant salary that he's set to receive
for the next two years. I just I don't see him or Oladipo,
giving the injury concerns and the inevitability of needing a new contract reaching even close
to what Holiday would get. I'm pretty much with you there. There's look
the fact he made second team All NBA. You could look at it in
a vacuum. But I don't know who would be the most desperate team that
I think we know it would be the Knicks feel like they would be the
team that would give up the most insofar as they want Chris Paul, which
there's really no read on whether they do or not. But even their most
you're not getting. I mean, this would be franchise mail practice. But
if you gave up Mitchell Robinson or RJ. Barrett in that deal, like
that would be franchise mail pride. So you're not getting one of them.
And you know what is that? Like? Are the Mavericks first round picks
like aren't a ton, so I tend to lean towards holiday as well.
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First kind of with that said, this will shock you, but I
have some holiday deals I was gonna throw. It's no way, yeah,
like fake trades. I love fake trades. Are you sure? No,
I'm actually not sure. Okay. I just wanted to make sure. And
I feel like we've we've definitely talked CP three deals on here too much,
which is why we're not going through them. Bo. We've discussed tangentially,
I think, including on the last podcast, but like it's just I can't
bring myself to like really come up with a ton no knowing that I don't
think he's gonna be moved, Like my heart's just not in those is basically
going. Uh so I'll start off here, we'll go just alphabetically. I'm
not going through all three teams. But Atlanta, you're Atlanta Hawks now.
Number six is not enough to get Drew holiday to me, But if you
were gonna go give up one of your wings. My problem there then is
I think that New Orleans neus to take back some more salaries so that the
Hawks aren't eating Then into so much of their cap space. So my proposal
would be number six Kevin Herder and Dwayne Deadman, who has one year left
on his deal. The final one is not guaranteed for Drew Holiday. Do
you need more? If you're who says no to that, I think the
Pelicans barely say no. I was going to suggest the number six pick DeAndre
Hunter and Dwayne Dedmond for the salary filler. I think that's just slightly more
appealing given the malleability of DeAndre Hunter coming off an up and down rookie season.
But that seems pretty fair for both sides. And if I'm the Hawks,
I'm doing that in a heartbeat because Holiday, Like, if you're drawing
up a player to share a backhourt with Trey Young, it looks like Holiday,
right. You know a guy who's comfortable playing off the ball. He's
playing off the ball alongside Lonzo Ball. I guess pun intended. Maybe there.
You know that you know that he's a great defender. You know that
he can create when Trey Young is off the floor, which has been Atlanta's
biggest issue. They just haven't had that backup point guard capable of even keeping
the offensive float without Trey's offensive ability. So yeah, we don't. We
don't think, you know, it could be. I refuse to rule that
out just because I was once upon a time so high on Evan Turner,
who is probably one of my biggest draft evaluations misses of all time. I
compared him to Dwyane Wade coming out of Ohio State before he broke his back.
Oh wow, Yeah it didn't that that hasn't aged well off. I'll
admit to that. There's still time for him to go back to the Celtics
and maybe make that age a little bit better. So stand to stand to
I'll try, I'll try. It's like how you're still picking the Nuggets to
win this last year's title. Yeah, there's still my title pick for twenty
twenty. Yeah. Uh. I'm just curious how interested in New Orleans would
be in DeAndre Hunter considering they already traded him, like Atlantic traded him right
right, So I can't see the air quotes if you're listening, but they're
there. If I were them, I would prefer Herder, who's more plug
and play on offense to me and can probably look, he's shown he can
do some stuff off the drubble or I prefer Cam Reddish. Yeah, I
was gonna say, like they'd probably come back with the counter of asking for
Reddish. And if you're Atlanta, you still do it. You still do
it for Cam Reddish. Yeah, I think you still do just there are
already reports that Atlanta is looking to shop the number six pick for a veteran
Holiday fits perfectly as good as Reddish looked over the last twenty or so games
of his rookie season. Yeah, you make that move. What if it's
now? What if it's like a version of a future first round pick,
like say this is happening after the draft, would you give up a twenty
one draft pick for Jue Holiday with your number six pick this year? And
if you are what type of protections would you need to put on it?
If you're Atlanta, yeah, I think you still do just because of the
Holiday fit. But you're probably putting a top twenty or a lot of protection
on it. I would say that maybe top If I'm New Orleans, I
I would prefer one of the prospects that if they're only going to do lottery
protected, I don't think if I don't think if you're Atlanta, though,
you can justify doing more than like loosely. You can't be looser than like
top seven or eight protection just because of how ballyhood the draft classes, but
also like you need to safeguard yourself against disaster just in case you don't make
the playoffs. Look and ultimately we've seen this so many times now where if
you have a marquee young star, and to be clear, Tray Young is
a marquee young star, you have to win soon or else in this era
of player empowerment and respect to the players for creating this era of player empowerment,
you've got to win or else they're going to ask for a trade,
and they're within their rights to do so. Yeah, I mean, their
urgency, I would say, is not as high just because he's not even
off his rookie scale deal yet. So you don't want to do anything that
could short circuit yourself long term, particularly with this free agency class. But
Drew Holiday doesn't fall into that. I guess you could be reticent about paying
his next deal. But like, if you could get Drew Holiday, let's
say it's whatever it is, whether he's opting in an extending or if it's
just a full blown resigning. If you could get him if it costs you
a little over one hundred million dollars for the next four years of his career,
I think I'm okay with it. And look, because he wouldn't have
to carry like so much the burden on offense, you can bank on his
off ball defense probably being a lot better in Atlanta. And then he's always
just been great on the ball. And so, like you said, if
you could build a player in a lab that would play next to tray On
in the backcourt, it would look a lot like Drew Holiday. Maybe he'd
be a little bit taller. Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked
about how Atlanta is kind of trying to follow that Warrior's East model and create
like their Splash Brothers backcourt with Trey Young and Kevin Hurder. I think I
would rather have someone like Drew Holiday over someone like Klay Thompson alongside him,
just because of that secondary creation. Yeah for sure. I mean, if
you had that secondary creator already, then maybe a Clay Thompson just having more
gives you more positionality on defense, and maybe not even we've seen Drew Holiday
defend Kevin Durant before. So the next team I have here though, is
the Brooklyn Nets. They Again, I feel like maybe this is being talked
about enough now. They have a lot of trade assets that are palatable in
this scenario, though I don't know how palatable they are because Jared Allen doesn't
make sense when you have Jackson Hayes and even Zion Williamson, Like that's just
not a great fit. Next, Desion Carris Lavert. I all right,
let me ask you this question. First, would you give up Carros Lavert
in a Drew Holiday trade? And Lavert is on a deal, he's younger,
he's on three years fifty two point five million dollars, I would,
just because of the fit. You know, Lavert in some ways is more
of a luxury than a necessity, just because you already have Kyrie Irving and
Kevin Durant who can create all of the shots from all over the court at
any time. And Lavert has shown flashes of being a good three point shooter,
it's not his strong suit. He definitely prefers to create off the dribble,
to take some long mid range shots to attack the basket. He's shown
signs of becoming a better facilitator. But you're essentially hoping that he can morph
into a player who plays a whole lot like Drew Holiday, and we already
know what Holiday can do. I just I think that Holiday is a far
more seamless fit alongside two stars who have fairly similar, albeit far superior skill
sets to that of Lavert. I'm with you, I think from I would
give him up in a trade for Drew Holiday in a vacuum. It lowers
what I'm giving up though to finish the rest of that deal. But for
New Orleans, I questioned his fit next to a brand Ingram and Zion Williamson
because for the past, for the past two seasons, he shot better on
off the dribble threes than catch and shoot threes. And I do think he's
talented enough to get better. But now you're adding that level of combustibility where
Drew Holiday is better off the ball. Yes, Lavert's cheap enough, but
how great is the fit with I would say, you're two most important building
blocks moving forward, and then you throw a Lonzo ball into that equation.
And so I'm almost wondering if he would be my Lavert deal. If I'm
Brooklyn, so I'll throw this out. There would be Lavert number nineteen and
Torrian Prince. Does that get it done for you? No, I don't
think so. I think you need Dinwoody included. I wouldn't give up both
Dinwitty and Lavert for Drew Holiday with him approaching free agency. If I was
Brooklyn, I couldn't do it. I would do now if you could do.
I actually think didnwood he's a better fit for New Orleans. Granted he's
older, but I still think like he's gonna he mirrors the secondary creation you're
gonna get from Lavert anyway, and there's a chance that he might be cheaper
than him moving forward. He has a player option for twelve point three million
in the summer of twenty twenty one. If you're trying to load up like
on assets here, I'd be curious if New Orleans would do Dinwitty crew it's
Torrian Prince number nineteen, and then like a distant NETS first round pick,
Like let's say if the Nets Romana throw their twenty twenty two or twenty twenty
three pick into play unprotected, would you do that? Or maybe a season,
let's let's cut out this year's first Like let's say New Orleans doesn't want
it if it's Dinwitty, Prince kuots the nets is twenty twenty one pick unprotected
and then twenty twenty three pick, let's say top five protection. Is that
a deal that interests you if you're New Orleans. I'm still on the fence
about it. I have trouble just because you know, as you mentioned,
Lavert isn't an ideal fit with the Pelicans. I'm not sure that Dinwitty is
either because of his age, and Jared Allen isn't super ideal either. Because
you know, I'm a huge believer in Jackson Hayes. I think, as
you know, I'm not sure that without two of the three, it gets
done. What two of the three being Allen being one of the third Allen,
din Witty and Lavert. The problem is is that I would give Allan
up in either with Lavert or din Witty, but I just don't see his
value in New Orleans. So then you get into a point, can you
send him to a third team that would then send like a first round pick
or another process. That kind of what I wonder here is I feel like
just given the the talent overlap between these two franchises and how they could value
their own players differently, it feels like this is a three team situation if
Holiday is to end up in Brooklyn. I'm just I'm not sure I see
a realistic way to bridge the gap between just the two sides. Okay,
so I'll throw this out there. And this actually just came to me.
Dinwoody number nineteen and Brooklyn's twenty twenty one first unprotected and Miles Bridges to New
Orleans, Jared Allen to Charlotte, and there might need to be another salary
there for to make it end carewts to New Orleans to go there too.
Do you need another first round pick if your New Orleans is part of that
deal. I'm so good with this deal. I love that. I love
that Bridges. Bridges feels like a great fit next to Zion and Brandon Ingram
just kind of filling in all the cracks. And I would love to see
Jared Allen just explode in Charlotte. So we've landed, and look, they
have Cody Zeller there, but he'll be on an expiring deal. And Allen
is definitely has the higher ceiling as a defender, and he did shoot threes
for like a second in Brooklyn, so that final deal was Jared Allen to
Charlotte, Drew Holiday to Brooklyn, Torrian Prince, Spencer Jenuity, cu Roots
number nineteen A twenty twenty one first, and Miles Bridges to New Orleans.
I don't even know if you unique cour Roots is part of that deal at
that point. I think because you're not getting Lavert maybe, and Torrian Prince
is a net negative on his contract. He's good salary matching, but two
years and basically twenty five point three million is not great value for Torrian Prince.
Do you want to call Michael Jordan or should I good Ride? I'd
be curious. Charlotte definitely does straight up. I don't know if the money
works where I need to look at alan salary here, Oh it does work.
Would you do Allen for Miles Bridges straight up? If you're Charlotte?
I think so. I think I would too, Yeah, I mean he
fits so perfectly with what that team likes to do on defense and just the
glaring need for a center. I mean, we're going to talk about what
they're they want to do with their number three pick during the mailbag portion of
this episode, and you know you're hoping that whoever they draft there turns into
Jared Allen. That's a fair point. I mean, some people think James
Wiseman is gonna be really good. I'm just I'm first of all, I
won't give any hot takes on draft prospects anymorever since I said Kwaie Leonard was
going to be a bust, like, I'm just I'm out. I'm out
on that. I just don't. I don't know. I don't have a
feel for anything in this draft. There are like two, like all zero
win on guys that I'll probably feel like outside the top five, I think
you're gonna be really good. But that's also like a cowards thing to do,
just because there's it's so combustible near the top. This year the next
thing I wanted to get to and I think we'll probably start blowing through these
quicker. Does Dallas have the assets to get Drew Holiday? No, you
don't think they have hardaways expiring deal And if you included pick number eighteen and
you have Jaylen Bronson, no enough. I was just curious they might be
a sneaky team for Aladipo then they don't want to screw over their cap space.
That definitely be far more realistic. But like, as you mentioned,
like we're talking about their best realistic trade assets because we're they're not trading Chris
Stops or don Check right, and then you're looking Bartaway, Junior's expiring deal,
the number eighteen pick in a week lackluster draft, Jalen Brunson. So
I like Jayalen Brunson, And what they could do is throw in like a
Maxi Kleiba or a Seth Curry, But then it almost feels like those two
are great fits for New Orleans, by the way, but then it almost
feels like how much better is Dallas after that? So but I do think
that they could get closer than you're giving them credit for if Kleiba and Curry
are on the table, But that might rest on you know, does New
Orleans want to stay good while trading holiday We don't really know. That might
be a package maybe that gets you Oladipo. I don't know that I give
up. Would you give up both? Would you give up two of Curry
Kleiba and Hardaway for Oladipo? Yeah? I think so it's it's a good
risk to take given where Dallas is at right now. I think I'm with
you. It's just both of their contracts and particularly Curries is just so nice
that Yeah, so Denver. I think it's a team that's most popular with
through holiday and the question everyone's asking, would you get about Michael Porter Junior
for Juvalide? In a heartbeat, I'm actually shocked that you said that.
Look, Michael Porter Jr. Has shown so much offensive flammability. His six
ten frame, his shooting ability, his feel for the offensive game. They're
all remarkably advanced, as we saw during the bubble experience and in a couple
of postseason games where he can legitimately take over a game on offense for a
little bit. He also doesn't even seem to understand that playing defense is necessary.
He's not a good playmaker, and ultimately, like this is a team
that should want to be winning right exactly now, with Jamal Murray on the
roster, with Nikola Yokich running the show for so much of the half court
experience, you know, Porter is more of a luxury item than a necessity,
a phrase that I've already used once, But you know, he his
skills are not necessarily exactly what's needed for this Denver team. It's great to
have. It's fantastic when your third best player on a good night is going
to be able to win a postseason contest for you. But you don't need
him. You need someone like Holiday if you really want to open up that
championship window. Now, Denver has has struggled to play quality perimeter defense even
when Gary Harris and Will Bardon are healthy, and Holiday helps fix that.
He helps give you another way of attacking while keeping everyone else involved, which
is something that Porter has struggled with because he does not look to pass.
This isn't a knock against Porter's talent. It's just a fit thing. So
if you have to give up him and Gary Harris or Will Bardon you do
it. I'd be curious if that deal can get done then without Gary Harris.
If you're giving up Porter, who Gary Harris has been. I don't
want to say a disaster on offense, so let's use the word seesaw inconsistent
however you want to spin it. I wouldn't be against giving up Michael Porter
Junior if I'm New Orleans Denver, I'm What I'd be curious though, is
if you can do that, is there a way to expand the deal so
that Denver's getting a little more out of it since they are taking a risk
with holiday coming close to free agency and just being older, and so like,
let's use this framework. Let's say it's bull ball number twenty two Michael
Porter Junior and Harris, and that get you to the holiday money. I
believe depending on the timing of the trade Wold New Orleans, Like in that
scenario, are you willing to give them number thirteen? Are you willing to
wipe off number twenty two? Or if I'm Denver, is something I'm interested
in, are you willing to give them swap rights on LA's like twenty twenty
three first, or even in LA's they have LA's twenty twenty one pick protected
eight to thirty. It's really an unprotected pick in twenty twenty two the way
that it's structured. Now, if I'm Denver, I do that. I
want to be clear if you can get you do that. If you're Denver,
I don't know about New Orleans, just because I'm not entirely sure that
Porter is the best fit in New Orleans either defensively right Ingram there, I
actually think because he's played a wall off the ball, he's a much better
fit than a Lavert. So putting him next to Lonzo balls on on and
Ingram offensively feels like you could hum. The defense is where I'd get concerned,
because if you're gonna have to put a lot of pressure on Ingram and
Zion there right, And so I think I'd be more apt to being like,
Okay, Denver can keep bull Ball or number twenty two. We're not
giving you a Lakers pick in that scenario, let alone our own pick this
year. Oh actually, I don't know. I might not be I might
not care too much about giving up the number thirteen pick in this draft.
I think if I'm Denver, though, I'm trying to get Josh Hart back
in that deal. Also, maybe that's a I don't know what else you
have to give up though, Like if I'm New Orleans, I might balk
at Josh Hart to me would be more valuable than this year's number thirteen pick,
this year's number twenty two picks. So I would just counter being like,
you know what, you can keep bullball or the number twenty two,
and we're gonna keep Josh Hard. I don't know what else never would have
to Like if you threw maybe if Dever threw in a distant first, so
like you're moving into advance where we're talking, you know, twenty Let's say
they're moving their pick after this year's draft to get around the Stepian rule for
them. Do you give up the twenty twenty one pick or twenty twenty two
pick to get Josh Hart while you're giving up Michael Porter Junior, I don't
know. The weight is finally over. Football is back. You might not
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That online your online sportsbook experts. Can I also just say that I
don't like the Steppian role and I think we should get rid of it.
It was it was essentially put in place to protect franchises, right because step
In with the Wizards traded away every first round pick he had odd infinitem and
it didn't work out and the franchise tanked. Okay, So like teams already
tank intentionally, I would rather them have all of the assets they can to
trade, especially knowing that the NBA does best when trade rumors are all over
the place. And if you allow more teams to have more high level assets
to trade and to get involved in trade discussions, I think that benefits the
league. And like, Okay, like a team bottoms out because it's poorly
managed, who gives a shit, Like it did it to itself. It
can recover down the road, It can make changes to the front office and
avoid similar situations. Like I feel like that's just too much policing from the
league, and I'm gonna stop because I feel like Jeff Van Gundi right now,
if you're gonna get rid of the Steppian rule, I think you have
to then make a more finite window of how far out you can trade a
draft pick, like maybe it's five years or something. Because I think we
run into problems. Is there are enough ways around the Steppian rule that I
actually don't really think that it prevents teams from I mean, let's just look
at the rockets basically under Daryl Morey. So it doesn't really prevent you from
trading consecutive first It's just really all about timing with it, and I would
be what you could, but it does. It does because like if somebody
really wants to get you holiday right now, they can't offer two back to
back first round picks, even though that would be really appealing. But so
the misses then though, you get to a point where like now you've given
up those assets and you don't have the way to improve. Whereas, yea,
this might force just a little more patients. Like I said, I
wouldn't be against it, and I get to your point where maybe rumors run
more wild then, but then you also get to a point where there are
going to be certain teams that trade away so many assets they hamstring themselves.
Whereas look, it's even now. What the Steppian rule does too is discourage
teams from trading too far out because you want to have the flexibility to work
with the timing. So if you give up like the Lakers have like that
twenty twenty two pick. Uh, that's basically what it is. It's twenty
where it's twenty twenty one, but it could spill over to twenty twenty two
and now you've traded twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five as well. It's
it makes it harder for you to complete moves, and I feel like,
I feel like that those situations are prevented by the Steppian rule. You give
more team teams bites at the trade apple with it being implemented. But see,
I totally I totally get that. But I guess it's the same rule
that in like fantasy leagues, I hate trade vetos unless there's obvious collusion going
on, Like if if if an owner or a general manager is comfortable taking
that risk and it doesn't work, like that's on them. Yeah, I
just I don't know that putting those restrictions in place is really that beneficial.
That is, Yeah, it prevents teams from shooting themselves in the foot,
but like, shouldn't they be allowed to sometimes that's a very callous way of
looking at it. I'm not as opposed to this stepping rule just because teams
get around it anyway. And I think that's actually better for transaction volume,
because at some point that I feel like you're going to have teams run out
of first round picks. I think it's I think it's better for transaction volume.
I think it's worse for transaction possibilities. And I think that the NBA
should care more about the discussions about trades and the actual number of trades that
happen, because the NBA has has developed into this twenty four seven, three
hundred sixty five league, not because there are games happening at all times,
but because there is a large swath of fans who care more about the off
season and about the drama and about the potential moves than the actual on court
play. And they're not right or wrong. There are different ways to watch
them, to follow every sport. But I think that you promote that,
and you build upon that, and you attract a whole new group of devoted,
passionate fans if you continue to increase the possibilities of movement. It's an
interesting discussion that I did not expect to have on this podcast, but that
would be if people are listening. Paul, let us know if you think
the Stepian rule is outdated or pointless, and agree with Adam here. So
any interest of us being able to get to the mailback, I'll blow through
just a couple of the frameworks. I won't go into the actual deals I've
written down now. Teams that I think will be interested, but we won't
have the firepower Lakers and Clippers. I just can't see a path to them
getting a deal. The Clippers, to me, could maybe get closer because
Patrick Beverley, Lew Williams, Landry Shammitt a first round pick in twenty thirty
five or like whatever. They I don't even know if they can legally trade
a first round pick right now. I feel like they could probably get closer
than the Lakers. They should be able to, and they can't legally the
first round pick right now they've traded your first Imagine the possibilities if they could.
They could trade conversations that we can have. They could trade no,
okay, it's a good conversation. They could trade twenty twenty seven. That's
it. If there's no Stepian rule, well, that's actually not true,
because they could trade back to backs. You're right, You're right. Still
anyway, I think they can get Now we would like to pull people on
their support for the Stepian rule. Yeah, Clippers fans, how do you
feel about the Stepian rule? I don't think either one of them could get
close. The Clippers could still get closer to me even with the absence of
an actual concrete first to trade. The Lakers have Kuzma in this year's first
that they could angle really in salary filler. I don't really know how they
get there. Miami's interesting, but I think they only come One don't think
you give up Tyler hero in such a deal. And two, I think
they only get involved and we're talking about Duncan Robinson and then probably a distant
first as the framework. I think that's only a possibility of Janna science his
Supermax. Yeah, they're they're too They're too far into the prioritization of twenty
twenty one cap space unless the primary prize is already off the market. I
don't think Philly can get there. He's also not a fantastic off ball fit,
even though I think he brings ball handling, which which they could certainly
use, but even just you can't trade Harris or Porford as part of that
deal. And then Josh Richardson and you could step out of yourself to the
salary filler, but how many first is that going to take from there?
So I would write them off. I would love to see him in Toronto,
but they just they're not giving up Ogan and Nobi in that deal,
and their salary filler is also weird because you're not gonna want to give away
Kyle Lowry and you're definitely not trading Siakam the two teams that I would be
interested in, and it's both built around draft picks. If you're the Warriors,
are you giving up number two for Drew Holiday in a heartbeat? Now?
The problem is that he doesn't fall into the trade exception. So now
you're in this scenario where you have to give up Andrew Wiggins because it's not
going to be Draymond Greener or Clay Thompson. Sorry, did did you mean
to say you have to give up Andrew Wiggins or you get to give up
Yeah? All right, So now the Pelicans have to take on Andrew,
and I think the deal that's been flown around is would both these sides do
it. Let's say it's loony Wiggins, loudy Wiggins number two and then next
year's Minnesota pick for Reddick and high Holiday. I didn't run the numbers on
this. You might need another salary in there if you're Golden State, but
that would be the framework which which team is doing that or both of them
doing that, or think both of them are doing that. Yeah, I
mean Golden State can afford to lose a deal and still win if that makes
sense where they're they're giving up more talent, more assets in a trade because
their window is exactly now right. You don't know how Draymond Green in particular
is going to continue to age. He did not look like the Draymond Green
of the dynastic Golden State Warriors during this past season. Maybe that was just
due to a lack of motivation on a team that was clearly going nowhere.
But like, you need to win right now. And look if, by
the way, if you trade the number two pick as an actual salary,
you can do number two next year's Minnesota pick plus Wiggins will get you both
Holiday and Reddick. Now, if New Orleans said, look, you're now
paying Andrew Wiggins and Brandon Ingram, who are not the best of fits together
max money for Andrew Wiggins has three years left on his deal. I'm probably
asking for Golden States twenty twenty one pick in that scenario. Are you doing
that then? Where now we're amounting to three first round picks plus Andrew Wiggins
for Dualiday and JJ Reddick, both of whom could be free agents in twenty
twenty one. I think that's where it starts to sow some doubt in Golden
State's mind. I can still justify doing it, I think, especially just
knowing that if all goes according to plan, which you have to believe that
it will. If you're making this move, you're looking at the twenty eight
pick, the twenty nine pick, the thirty pick, and it's not really
a first rounder. I think I'm with you there. I still don't know.
I feel like I hate it for both sides when Warriors are giving up
both picks and the Pelicans are getting back Andrew Wiggins, and that's why there
just might not be a fit there. My final one, the Timberwolves you
can use if you want to use. The number one pick is a salary
and we're trying to go bare bones here. You could go James Johnston and
number one for Drew Holiday. You go James Johnson, Jake Layman and number
one for Drew Holiday. If you want to complete it on the draft.
My questions to you are twofold. Are you doing that if you're the Timberwolves
where you're giving up the number one pick for Drew Holiday knowing he could be
you're gonna have to resign him either, you know, in one summer from
now or two I say summer one offseason from now or two. And then
the second question would be, are you doing this deal if your New Orleans
or because of the uncertainty at the top of the draft and where you're thinking,
like I mean, James Wiseman next to Zion does that work? Melo
Ball next to Lonzo Ball? Does that make sense? Do you need like
another first? Do you need a josh Akogi in this to make the deal?
LaVar Ball is doing that deal immediately. To be clear, I don't
know if he wants both his sons at New Orleans. I'm not sure.
I'd be curious. That's not a diss against New Orleans. I think he
wants them both in New York or Los Angeles or Chicago or some stuff,
or next to Zion where they're going to continue to get national attention all the
time. All right, well, well, well to answer your question,
I think I think a Kogi is Need or Jarrett Culver or another pick.
I think you would have to go with the If I'm the Timberwolves, you'd
have to. I can't trade another first round pick that far out. If
I'm them, I would insist upon would you give up Culver and number one
if it make getting back drow Holiday? Yeah? I would. And in
some ways, like okay, this is this is gonna sound weird, but
I think in some ways, like the second and third pick in this draft
might be more valuable than the number one pick, even if you don't get
to control who you're taking, because a prospect of two is already off the
board. Like there's so much uncertainty in this class that paying them marginally less
on that rookie scale might matter. Uh yeah, you know. It would
be funny is if the Pelicans did what they essentially did with the Lakers pick
last year, so they acquire number four, but then they flipped that,
like if they turn around then trade down with the number one pick again,
that might be something that they could explore. Absolutely, are you ready get
some of these mail bad questions? We comment deeered this podcast in our behalf,
but we will. We will trundle along through these mail bad questions because
we have a bunch of good ones. Uh Uno Maas asks Yannis three pat
MVP voter fatigue is going to set in. Voter fatigue is going to set
in for sure. I'm gonna say. I'm gonna say no, just because
I think at this point the narrative, which is always important in MVP voting
for better or for worse, is that Jannis was the best player in the
regular season for the last two years and failed to live up to those standards
during the playoffs. So unless he does something remarkably unprecedented during the twenty twenty
twenty one regular season, the juice will not be there for him to get
the necessary votes. I'm gonna pick don Chich right now. We have to
make picks right now. I will say Yannis won't win. And it's for
all the reasons you said. It's not even just voter fatigue. I think
because of the bucks is problematic playoff runs that he's gonna get dinged for that,
which I actually don't think is is unfair. If I had to pick
an MVP right now, I almost felt like this might have been this might
be the upcoming year where Lebron gets sort of that does he necessarily deserve it?
And you could always argue in favor of him, but it's it's like
that Career Achievement award where what he just did in the playoffs, I don't
think he's gonna ultimately play enough games. I was gonna say it's gonna be
real hard to win that MVP when he sits out for the first month.
I think so right now, the names I would zero in on are and
I'm looking. I'm trying to figure out who's gonna play enough games to do
it. I'm leaning towards Stephen Curry, James Harden or Donchitch would be my
early top three. I have Yokichen there too. Clearly, I'm all over
the place. Anthony Davis, No, definitely not, but I think we're
in agreement that, well, yeah, Frankie Luikina is going to win MVP.
It's doesn't matter of how many Anthony Bellino asked what are my Pistons going
to do to get back into the top four of the Easts? Can I
can I hijack this one? I mean, are you going to say they're
not? I'm gonna say that hopefully they're not trying to get back in the
top four of the East next season? Okay? Fair there Their quickest path
to get back into the top four of the East is to enter a rebuild
and then get their gradually leagues. I don't know that they have a move
in them where they can make it like if you could get Bradley Beal,
I don't even know if he gets you the top four of the East because
you're now tethered to the health of Blake Griffin. Because Bradley Beale, we
seen, does not give you a playoff Berth on his own. And if
you're getting him, you've traded away this year's pick. You've traded away,
say Ku, you've probably trade away Lukinard as well. So I do think,
and Lazarus Jackson mentioned this to me on the Pistons look Ahead, that
they're actually rebuilding, and so I think they're far more likely to steer into
a bottom three finish in the East next season. Than they are to try
to re enter the playoff picture. Yeah, I mean, the best thing
that they can do, for lack of a better term, is trust the
process. Like this is a roster that is completely devoid of hope with the
current pieces. You know, they need to move Blake Griffin if they can.
They need to move Derek Rose if they can. They should try to
resign Christian Wood even if the price rises pretty high based on what we saw
at the tail end of this last season. But beyond that, there is
not a great long term player on this roster. And we even have questions
about Christian Would because of the lack of sample size. So you need to
you need to be bad, like really bad before you get good here.
And if you want to do him yourself to the mediocrity treadmill, then the
answer to the question is check back in a decade now. If they did
nothing this offseason, Let's say they resigned Christian Would, they don't trade Blake
Griffin, they don't trade Derrick Rose, and they're using their cap space not
on fred van Fleet but on just one year deals. If everything hits you,
you're keeping Luconard. There's a chance that they could sneak into the final
playoff spot. In the right, you're a first round You're going to be
a first round exit there, right, And so I think they're in this
weird position where they actively need to deconstruct some of their roster if they want
to get like legitimately bad unless you're just not going to play Blake Griffin if
he's healthy, because look, the less time Blake Griffin was healthy, he
made an All NBA team. I'm not saying that's going to happen again,
but if he is healthy, your team is going to be not terrible.
I have nothing against the Pistons as an organization or their fans, but they
are in the absolute worst possible spot to be in the NBA right now,
where with their current pieces, they're going to be good enough to convince themselves
that they can get into the playoffs, but that's their ceiling. Yeah,
I think you could argue between them Charlotte and the Nicks being in the worst
long term position in the muta. I would like to amend that statement.
I think that the title or failure conversation that we so often have is a
little bit corrosive and less than ideal. So if if the Pistons really do
want to compete for a playoff spot, and their fans get to be excited
about being in the playoffs. Power to them, that's not necessarily a bad
thing, but through the lens of wanting to be a top four team or
a championship contender, they are in the worst possible spot. Next question comes
from a long time listener of Miroslav Shook ass how many All Stars will change
teams before the season starts. Let's set up, gonna give you an over
under on this three point five under. Really, yeah, what I think
two of us? We're talking about this past year's All Stars? Right?
Uh no, just well, I think players that you can envision making an
All Star appearance. Okay, so Chris Paul, Chris Paul is the obvious
one. I would say one of Drew Holiday or Oladipot. So that feels
like two. So that's two. Where's your third name? Like Aaron Gordon
doesn't qualify? What about Gordon Hayward? Is he really like still an All
Star? Or I mean that was his All Star appearances were a while ago
at this point. What about maybe Demarda Rosen that to go on? Or
La Marcus Aldridge or Marcus Aldridge, brandon Ingram's not moving, Anthony Davis isn't
moving. And beyond that, there are no all stars in this free agency
class, so you're stuck on trade on trades here, Well, okay,
so would you? So I have a few names to then throw out at
you. Would you consider Al Horford or Tobias Harris of that ILK at all
not anymore feels like a little bit low on to buy's Harris, But I
think also fair enough. He wasn't an All Star beforehand. He's never been
an all He did nearly come close in the West, though, Like that
was an all star caliber season he was having before a trade deadline. He
had one fantastic year or fantastic half year. Wow, just really Mike,
Mike Conley and a CP three for a Conley swap. I don't think he's
going anywhere, So that's that's probably mood. I don't think Portland's gonna end
up trading McCollum. Maybe three point five, I'm gonna be optimistic. That
was aggressive. The line should have been two point five. I would take
the over on both because if we're including Demartar Rosen and the Marcus Aldrich.
I'm going to be optimistic about transaction. I can't see the Spurs in what
could be Popovich's final season trading their best players. Okay, so what about
wouldn't a Sabonis or Miles Turner fall under this too? Sabonis would I'm not
sure about Miles Turner. I like Miles Turner along your term then sabonus.
So maybe that's in my own head. So let's go two point five or
do you want to say three so that there could be a push, We'll
split the difference. I'm still gonna go with two, all right, so
we'll take two. I don't think we're going to see a lot of movement
this year, all right, two point five, I'm taking me over.
Adam's taking me under. Circle back for your well, actual these people,
because they will, they will be present when the time is right. I
can't believe you're taking me under on two point five when we just said probably
two of Oladipo holiday and CP three get moved. I just don't see any
others man, You're a hater. This comes from the official Aaron Bains fan
Club Twitter account. What does Aaron Bains need to do next season to become
the career leader in both value over replacement player VORP or box plus minus VPM.
Just keep being Aaron Bains. That was actually a response ATG thirty four
said, just be himself. He is the greatest player in the league.
Yeah, I just exposed my burner, didn't I. That is like a
very like niche fan base, Aaron Bains. It's very popular, very very
vociferous. A serious question though here from Joe Schlow. Can you guys take
over Oh this isn't Can you guys take over national and state polling for twenty
twenty two and twenty twenty four? I mean, I'm game if you are.
I'm not, because that is a miserable job. I mean, the
polsters, the leading, the leading posters out there, I have done everything
they can to account for the failures of twenty sixteen polling by weighing different demographics
differently, and you know, trying to adjust and trying to find, you
know, the shy voters out there and everything. It's an impossible job.
And it's made even more difficult by the dizzying number of American voters who don't
understand what probabilities mean, which is a little bit frustrating. But yeah,
I mean, like Nate Silver talked about this throughout Tuesday night, and I
think in part because he was trying to defend the model failing yet again.
It's really hard to get polls done in election seasons now because you know,
you you you try to get a thousand people and eight of them respond to
you, and you don't know if they're lying. It's just it is a
thankless and incredibly difficult job. And I feel like a lot of the discussion
about politics over the next four years is going to be about how we can
remedy that. If we even can, I would say we could address polling
by batting polling, we'll just be where Look. The other thing I can't
even remember if you mentioned this at the top, would be the people that
they're reaching for these polls, like and how they're reaching them by like phone
in the middle of like a work day or something like is well, there
there are various different styles of polling. There's the live caller, there's the
landline only, there's the online polling. There there are so many different varieties,
but none of them are are sound. Exit polling is definitely not sound.
Yeah, let's ignore that for sure. Nick Conrand asked, this is
the serious question. What percentage of shots to Siakam take off a spin move?
Now, I'm assuming you didn't research this like I did. I did,
I did. Okay, Yeah, it's eighty two point three percent.
Okay, so you did not. Whenever you make up a stat do you
know that you use eighty two point three percent. Eighty two point three percent
of the time. So there wasn't anything on like actual spin shots broken down
in the tracking data. So I looked at his turnaround shots, which,
in theory, even though those could come from postops, he took a lot
of those on his spins. So he had one hundred and twenty one of
those. If you remove that, or if you just measure that against his
share a field goal attempts, which were one thousand, one hundred and four,
it's ten point nine percent closer to eleven percent. So I'm just gonna
say he takes close to eleven to fifteen percent. Would have thrown you know,
a cushion there off his shots off of spin moves. Eighty two point
three That is not I mean, if you eighty two point three the shots
may not come off spin moves. So maybe you're closer there. I mean
it seemed that way against Boston in particular, they were just so ready for
it, and it felt like he spun directly into an an awaiting defender just
time after time. He was just a Clotson traffic that series, especially at
the end of it. This one comes from Vermillion. What pieces do the
Dallas Mavericks need to become title contenders? I would argue against them needing pieces
plural. Yeah, that's that's kind of where I was going to, like,
I think that you need I'm not I'm not really sure like what they
need to add? Are they already title contenders with the roster as currently constructed?
I mean, Rick Carlisle on the sideline is gonna make sure that you
have a high floor from everyone on the roster. Don Chitch is gonna keep
getting better. Chris Stops when he was healthy, was phenomenal next to Don
Chich, Tim Hardaway, Junior Courtney Lee, Seth Curry. You've got the
shooters. I mean, what if what if Dwight Powell had stayed healthy all
season? I think that this is a team that's maybe maybe as currently constructed,
they're like a fringe title contender if we're being generous, Yeah, I
mean Courtney Lee is not going to be there next year anyway, And I
don't know like how much can count on from like like the lawn Rights a
good player, but I don't know if he's actually like the best fit for
the Mavericks. I think they're I've said this before. I think they're like
a half a player away from title contentions where I don't think you need to
go out and get another star because you could probably still count on Kris Stops
to play maybe fifty games a season, but you need the in between player.
And if I were them, and this might be unpopular, because they're
slated to have cap space in twenty twenty one, and even to sign Yann's
there, they would still need to make like another move to clear salary.
If you already need to do that, Like try going all in on this
offseason, like is there a sign and trade to be had for for Gallo
or fred van Fleet If you're just interested in someone who's also going to play
defense. If you can get that extra shot creator this summer, I think
you do vault up into that title contender discussion, or at least incredibly close
to it. I don't think. Maybe the best way to frame it then,
though, is like I don't think they need an actual All Star,
but they do need someone who won. They just need more shot creation.
In general, it would help if he someone who could get stops, but
I think the more important thing is like you kind of need that player who
can soften the blow of how much time it feels like Christaps Porzingis is going
to miss throughout his career, which it does seem inevitable that he'll continue to
miss time. And then yeah, if I like how you put it that
they're like a half piece away and if you're worried about cap space in twenty
twenty one, if Yannis wants to go to Dallas, it will find a
way to make it happen. I don't think as sign and trade with Fred
van Fleet. I'm not saying Toronto would entertain it if they're getting a first
round pick and Jalen Brunson back. I don't know, maybe if they don't
want to pay van Fleet, but if it's Gallo, you think, Okaycy
would certainly be open to that, and that's assuming maybe he signs for the
mid level anyway, Who knows you can find a way to move other salary
if you need to, Like if Yannis wants to come to Dallas, johannest
will go to Dallas. Whether you have near max space, actual max space,
no space at all, it'll it'll end. If they're pursuing him and
he doesn't sign, then Mark Cuban will just say that they had other priorities
moving right along. The Dwight Howard throwback reference like that one Darren Williams.
Didn't he say that for him too? Or no, I don't remember if
he said it for a d Will. I think all the players they've been
most heavily linked to that they missed out on. It's probably good for their
long term vitals that they missed out on signing them. Yeah, like DeAndre
the first time. Maybe that's the one that you would grating, Like Dwight
Darren Williams. I'm trying to think they were never really like heavily linked to
Lebron or Jimmy Butler or Kawai just move or thought. I'm trying to I'm
trying to think back. Yeah, I mean the Dwight Howard is the big
one. The last question comes from the NBA Chicken with all the changes off
the court for the Sixers, what roster changes could happen to fit the new
management along with possible offensive scheme changes. Can I swing at the low hanging
fruit? One? Absolutely? They were fifth in mid range frequency this past
season. That is not happening again next season. I don't think there are
always going to try and have them shoot fifty three is a game, but
you're not going to see that almost thirty four percent of their shots came from
mid range. Only the Pacers Thunder Warriors in San Antonio took a higher share
of their shots from mid range. Philly is going to be noticeably lower on
that ladder next season. Look, I mean, ultimately, you need more
shooters and you need more ball andlers. That's what it comes down to.
That's what Philly's obvious weaknesses were this year. And if you're going to continue
to roll out Ben Simmons and Joel Embiide, which you should, you need
those players because Simmons is not going to shoot, but he is phenomenal at
setting up other shooters, which they just didn't have. I mean, I
think it's as simple as that we talked about on the Daryl Moray episode.
How you know, he has this reputation as a guy who, you know,
an analytics devotee who wants to take all shots at the rim and from
three point range. And while that might be his preference, he also caters
to the desires and style of his star players while trying to acquire more star
players. So this roster needs more shooters and needs more ball handlers. You
know, they went out and they tried to address that by getting Alec Burks,
by making a couple other fringe moves, by elevating Shake Milton into the
starting lineup, just get better versions of those guys. And the problem is
though they only have the mini mL E and maybe that goes further than it
would in normal seasons, but you might need to use that to keep Burkes,
who would argue is probably essential to this roster. Now Yeah, yeah,
I don't know where the moves are staring them in the face if you're
looking for like higher end options. The James Harden deal, if it ever
happens, I doubt it happens this season. And you have to assume that
Tilan Fertida would want to do business with the Sixers after you know, Daryl
Morey said he wanted to leave and spend time with his family, even though
there was probably an element perhaps of him being forced out of Houston. But
then it ends up with Sixers two weeks later. If that was a more
mutual split than the circumstances made it seemed, then perhaps And also look,
Raphaels don't worked with Daryl Moorey, so perhaps there's that relationship there, But
like I think their best path if you're looking again for like a higher end
solution, can you latch onto like any of these deals as a third team
where maybe like there's outgoing pieces involved that don't make sense for like one of
the two primary teams. Let's use the Nets and the Pelicans for example,
like maybe dim what he doesn't make that much sense for the Pelicans long term?
Can Philadelphia involve itself in that deal to a fantastic fit? Right?
The question is, then, though, is Brooklyn willing to send him to
Philly even as part of a three team deal when they play in the you
know, the same conference, they're ostensibly like jockeying for the same position.
And then look, if you're Philly, even if you're going after Din,
what do you have to you know, I don't know if Josh Richardson and
then first is enough to get him in a third team deal. I guess
if you're New Orleans that Josh Richardson's a great fit in New Orleans. Doesn't
provide a ton of ball handling, but you don't necessarily need that. You
just need stoppers. So that's that's someone a name that springs to mind.
But I don't know when you have two contending rivals, at least in theory,
in the same friends, I don't know how willing they'd be to do
each other a solid like yeah, for Philly did when he would be great,
But you also want to help the Nets cat Drew Holiday, right,
and that does make everything a little bit more tricky. But yeah, I
mean, ultimately, I guess I just remained pretty bullish on the seventy six
ers as currently constructed. No come, I do. I do. I
think that they are just one or two moves and better leadership away from figuring
things out. Like the Simmons. The Simmons Embid partnership has had diminishing returns,
but they had to diminish from something like this. That pairing now three
seasons ago was incredible. Those players have only gotten better since then. It's
just it's a matter of managing to maximize those talents they made. We known
they made a big mistake by letting Jimmy Butler go, by letting JJ Reddick
go, and you're not going to find players of that ilk this offseason,
but the formula is still there. Here's my issue with that take is that
it's great that they're one or two moves away. But when you say that
as a team that's slated to have basically at least one hundred and fifty million
dollars pay roll next season, So to get those to make those one or
two moves is verging on impossible now. And that's why I'm so I feel
like they do need something more major than just soldering on. Maybe I'm wrong.
I don't think that major is let's move Simmons or Embiid. That definitely
becomes a topic next off season if this upcoming season ends in disappointment again.
But I kind of diverge with the fact that I'm not bullish on this roster
at all that's currently constructed, Like they need another higher end ball handler and
shooter, and like you just don't necessarily have even if you might have the
residual asset equity. Just looking at first, you just the contracts that you
would have to move. Probably al Horfords Tobias Harris are just so tough to
move that maybe you're looking at a solution if it's Buddy Healed, Yeah,
sure, Like if that deal is actually doable, the one that's been floated
at Horford for heeled framework, that would be great. I don't know why
they came to do that for Yeah, I was going to say it would
be phenomenal for the six Ers, but like, I don't want to move
to Bias Harris. If he had the best half season of his career under
Doc Rivers, if the talent is there, he is theoretically a strong fit
next to the incumbent stars. I think he's the biggest reason why I'm still
like yeah, Like I can still see this working. I would agree that
if you had it probably costs more to get to Bias Harris off your books
at this point anyway, So I would move out Horford first to begin with.
However, if your move is them not trading to Bias Harris, like
I don't, that's not enough to make me bullish on this roster. Well,
we'll have to trace that you're staring you're staring blankly at me. After
that, we'll have to track that along with the over under of two point
five. We actually did have one more question that I accidentally skipped over that
you were talking about before we started. It comes from Franco Savariar. Apologize
if I butchered that pronunciation. Who do you think the Charlotte Hornet should get
with the third pick? Are they gonna have a choice? They just picked
the player that wasn't picked by the two teams in front of them. Yes,
if there is a clear cut top three in this draft, is there
who? It feels like, you know, we're we're seeing rumors about LaMelo
Ball falling down the board now, and you know this, this just feels
so voluable. It feels like it could be a year with an Anthony Bennett
style surprise number one draft pick, as rare as that happens. But yeah,
I mean, I think the first place they're gonna look is at center
right because Cody zeller Is is their starting center. He's only under contract for
one more year. He doesn't have much upside even if he is a solid
player when he's healthy, So I think you're looking at on Yuko Kongwu or
James Wiseman. Wiseman to me, seems like the better fit there. He
offers more upside on the defensive end in particular for that roster, I think.
But I just I can't see them taking like a LaMelo Ball if he
falls, because why would you want him there next to Devonte Graham and Terry
Rosier. That just that doesn't seem to make sense. Similarly, you don't
want an Anthony Edwards where the primary talent is scoring and we don't even know
if he's going to be an efficient score I personally don't think he will be,
So it feels like it has to be a big man or a reach
on, like a three and D guy, like a Devin Vassel or something.
But it's just there. There don't seem to be that many great options
if Charlotte stays at number three, which is by no means a lock.
Yeah, so I'm not as against them going the Edwards ball route because I
think those either one of those players and especially LaMelo Ball, even though I'm
not his biggest fan, has a higher upside than anyone else on their roster
right now, and that includes a Devonte Graham, So I don't think you
could draft for based on fit at this point. I know you have Rosio
and Devonte Gram. I would take LaMelo Ball anyway. Look, there's a
chance all three of them could play together. A Meloball is six eight,
so that's not like impossible. I don't I'm not sure how interested I am
in them trading down it would you have to get something like I don't know
who's giving them something to move up to number three. I'm more curious as
what if they want to remove the guesswork from the equation and move up,
Like, what are you willing to give up to go to number two or
number three to where you could in theory? Then I think Ball or Wiseman
are the better fits for them, better long term prospects for them. So
if you're number two, you ensure yourself of getting one of them, or
if you move up to number one, you could take your pick. Obviously,
I just don't know that it's worth it in this draft class. And
look, if you want Anthony Edwards, you can just go trade for the
older version and get Andrew Wiggins from the Warriors. We'll revisit that take too.
I'm not really sure how I feel about that. Here's a trade.
You are sure how to feel about that one, because I've said it a
thousand times to you on the side over the last year, right, But
I don't know. It pains me. It pains me as a Georgia alot.
I'm here for the desperately wants to have a Georgia bulldog better than Cantavious
called well Pope in the NBA, that's third best player on a championship team.
Cantaba's called well Pope to you, Adam, Just FYI, that's fair,
that's fair. Here's so I had thrown this trade at you, I
think a week or two ago when we were talking in slack, and I'm
curious how you feel about it. Now, let's say they want to move
Let's say they want to move up to number one. I wouldn't do this
trade or something some variances of it to move up to number two. I
think everyone's floated number two for Miles Bridges and number three, which I would
probably do, would you do? PJ? Washington? And number three for
number one? Number seventeen Jake Layman, and then a twenty twenty two second
coming from the more favorable from Denver or Philadelphia. I'm just I'm so out
on the top prospects being worth moving up to get that. No matter what
trade you throw at me right now. If it involves giving up a legitimate
asset like PJ. Washington or Miles Bridges to move up one or two spots,
I'm just I'm not doing it. I think if you view either of
the players you're trying to get by moving up as the guy, it's definitely
a worth while opportunity cost. I wouldn't worry as much about giving up Miles
Bridges to take a swing at US. If you could do Miles Bridges and
number three for number one in a heartbeat, to me, that should be
done. I know moving up one spot might feel a little bit different,
but you have PJ. Washington Bridges, there's just a ton of overlap because
neither one of them should be defending or playing the three. To me,
so you have some lego room there. I'm intrigued far more by PJ.
Washington, which surprises no one. And if you view LaMelo Ball or James
Wiseman or even Anthony Edwards as the guy, I do think there's some franchise
value in like, you know what we're gonna We're gonna go after it.
And if it costs us PJ. Washington, but we're getting another first and
a second and then a usual player in Jake Layman on the wings, then
yeah, we can do it. But I totally understand your trepidation there.
I in a vacuum wouldn't do it either, because I really like PJ.
Washington. If you replaced him with Miles Bridges, that's where from Charlotte's perspective,
for me it becomes no brainer. Territory. Yeah, I just I
stand by, like I like LaMelo Ball as a prospect, I don't love
him. I don't have that much confidence in James Wiseman or a Congo Will
or Anthony Edwards, as I've made painfully clear. So yeah, I just
it's just not worth it to me. Here's I'll throw this question at you
and then we'll get out of here. Of the three, who's more likely
to drop outside the top three? I think Ball is. You do think
it's Ball. I do think it's Ball because I feel like he's a hate
it, hate him or love him prospect, And I could just see a
couple of teams being out and then him kind of free falling a little bit.
I'm like, I go back and forth because I'm wondering, wondering if
it's Aunty Edwards, who's left? Is he the one that could drop?
Because it feels like Denny avia had just has so many like fans out there,
and I like, I'm Edwards just checks so many of like the prototypical
draft prospect boxes. Like he played in a power conference. He he scores,
he is remarkably athletic. He just doesn't have a feel for playing basketball,
and like, if you believe that can be taught you, you're going
to triple down. But you've you've like you're hedging now too, or like
you're playing both sides of the fence because you're like, well, he won't
drop past number three, but he's Andrew Wig. I think the NBA teams
convince themselves that they can turn the tools into a convincing player, all right,
So especially in this draft, I'm going player over tools, Like I
wouldn't take Anthony Edwards in the top ten. Holy shit, that's spicier than
I feel like Adam Spanella, a friend of the Pot, saying he wouldn't
take Lamella Ball in the in the lottery. I feel like that's the spicier
one, all right, fair enough. So if you were on the board
at number three, Wiseman and Ball are gone, would you take Anny Avia
over Anthony Edwards? Yes? Would you take anybody else over Anthony Edward?
I would take it Kong as well. And those are like your only no
brainer ones, where everyone else it would be at least a discussion or are
you that low with Anthony Edwards And you're like, you know what, No,
I'll take Haliburton at number three before I take Edwards at number three,
I would probably take Haliburton as well. Wow, I feel I don't like
Anthony Edwards as a prospect. I've I've watched so many of his games again
as a Georgia fan in alum, Like, you know, I so badly
wanted him to be good, and I just I don't see it, you
know, Like sometimes you just watch a prospect and you're like he looks lost
out there, like if he doesn't have the ball in his hands, he
doesn't understand what he's supposed to do or where he's supposed to go, and
just looks uninvolved. The defensive tools just didn't seem to be coming together in
any way. And I've just I've been burned by too many like hyper athletic
prospects who are are athletes and not basketball players at this stage of their career.
And I hope he proves me wrong. I really do, But like
I just, you know, sometimes you just watch a prospect and you just
don't get it. And that's where I'm at here. That sounds that's both
fair and coherent, so I'll accept it. I the actual last thing I'll
say, do you know who I've been become obsessed with one or two players
every draft? It was Nikiel Alexander Walker last year, think with Shae Gilden
Axander of the year before that. Frankie Lachina is still my my siren song.
This year, it's I haven't talked about it much. I mentioned a
few times. It was Patrick Williams and he was projected to go outside the
lottery, and I'm seeing him in like the top ten of yeah, and
I'm curious to see where he goes because I when I was talking to Spins
about this, I said I viewed him as this is coming from someone who
has done minimal draft prep prep. Let me say, I'm like, I'm
like shin deep, like not even knee deep, I'm shift deep in draft
prep. He feels like a slowed down version of Jonathan Isaac who could actually
create his own shot and shoot, and that's a fantastic basketball player. It's
also the youngest nca prospect in the class that too, so he's I have
no feel for where he's going to go anymore, but it seems like he's
now top ten consensus and that was I saw him like mocked as low as
like seventeen at one point. Yeah, yeah, he's He's definitely rocketed up
the boards from everything what you've seen. You want you want to end with
my super hot draft take. I don't even know if I can take it.
I'm running wearing mittens because I don't want to get burned. My super
hot take is I would take Grant Riller over Anthony Edwards. What is Grant
Riller even an actual prospect? I'm just you need to go go watch some
tape there so you I can't. This is like I'm not even gonna justify
it. I'm just throwing it out there. We can talk more about it
in another episode. Would you take, like, are you taking the more
complimentary players where like a Devin Vassel or Sadique Bay two players I'm also obsessed
with from this draft where they're like, I don't know what the upside is
there, but they're yes, you would take them over Anthon, Yes in
this specific class. Yes. So you're just I'm valuing floor over ceiling here
because okay, yeah, I think when it's framed that way, that's fine.
I have not heard anyone I love Grant Riller. Where is he even
mocked right now? I feel like that's the first time we've even hear not
even in the first round in a Well, then I have to again shin
deep in draft prep. I don't know who Grant Riller is, so I'm
gonna look at that name apparently. Guys, thank you for listening. If
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Until next time, we leave you with the shout out to the one,
the only, the number thirty seven ranked player on ADAMS twenty twenty Draft Big
Board, Anthony Edwards, Sugar, Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous,
Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define one of
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