WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.960 --> 00:00:33.759 Welcome to mid Rats with sal from Commander Salamander and the Eagle One from Eagle 2 00:00:33.799 --> 00:00:38.479 Speak at see Your Shore, Your Home for a discussion of national security issues 3 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:43.399 in all things maritime, and welcome on board everybody. Thank you for joining 4 00:00:43.479 --> 00:00:48.840 us for another edition of mid Rat and today very exciting. As always, 5 00:00:49.240 --> 00:00:52.600 it's a free for all, So if you are with us Live, I 6 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:56.240 would like to extend an opportunity for you to scroll down to the bottom of 7 00:00:56.280 --> 00:00:59.880 the show page and that's where you'll find the chat room. Will be my 8 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:03.280 entering in that during the course of the show, and if you have some 9 00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:08.280 observations or for comment, or even a question you wanted to our topic you 10 00:01:08.319 --> 00:01:11.719 wanted us to address over the course of the next hour, that's a great 11 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:18.159 place to do it. We also have open studio lines, so if you 12 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.840 are listening to us Live, you are on the show page and you'll see 13 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:25.040 in the upper right hand corner of the studio line if you wanted to call 14 00:01:25.040 --> 00:01:30.200 it, it's three four seven, three zero eight eight three nine seven. 15 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:36.040 Besides that, we're just going to roll right in Eagle one. Good afternoon, 16 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.439 Hey sol, how are you doing today? Do it all right? 17 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:47.640 I've got no complaints. You know. One of the fun things about doing 18 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:49.280 a free for all is, you know, you put out a little announcements 19 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.760 ahead of time, and people will say, hey, why don't y'all talk 20 00:01:53.799 --> 00:02:00.319 about this, which I guess is a a early adopter, early bird spel 21 00:02:00.359 --> 00:02:04.319 for the joint of the chap room or give us a call. And we 22 00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:08.680 had a couple of folks reach out to us and want to talk about the 23 00:02:09.800 --> 00:02:14.919 speech the Secretary of the Navy, Carlos Del Toro did at the kid the 24 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:19.240 School of Government. Was I think it was last week or a week before 25 00:02:19.360 --> 00:02:24.599 last interesting commentary. So I thought maybe to kick things off, let me 26 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:28.800 do a little bit of a pull quote here from it, and then we 27 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.639 can kind of pick off from there. Anybody can look it up. Just 28 00:02:32.759 --> 00:02:38.639 look seconda Carlos Del Toro delivers remark at the Harvard Kennedy School and you get 29 00:02:38.639 --> 00:02:43.479 the article right up there. But it's what's kind of nice about it, 30 00:02:43.599 --> 00:02:46.639 especially for regulars of mid rats. I don't know, I don't want to 31 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.919 throw my shoulder out by Patton pat patten us on the back, but he 32 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:57.599 talks about a lot of the things that we've been talking about here last a 33 00:02:57.680 --> 00:03:02.840 decade things at Salama. Cogliano has brought up John Conrad, Jerry Hendricks, 34 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:08.120 Brian McGrath, other people that we've had on guests, these recurring things that 35 00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:15.879 never seem to get traction, and he brings up a term that I don't 36 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:19.960 know if it's helpful, but if it gets more people attention, that's great. 37 00:03:20.039 --> 00:03:23.000 So I'll go ahead and start with a little bit of extended quote here 38 00:03:23.039 --> 00:03:27.400 for the listeners who are driving or don't have an opportunity to get the article 39 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:32.000 up. So the next is second nav del Toro. Extended quote follows quote. 40 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.919 This afternoon, I stand before you to call for a new maritime state 41 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:43.680 craft to prevail in this era of intense strategic competition. Maritime statecraft and a 42 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.719 broad sense encompasses not only naval diplomacy, but a national, whole of government 43 00:03:47.759 --> 00:03:53.960 effort to build comprehensive US and Allied maritime power, both commercial and naval. 44 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:59.599 Our new maritime state craft should be bold, founded on a strong Navy Marine 45 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:04.120 Corps to fill our national security interest. It should also be equally strong on 46 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:10.280 engagement in areas of economic development, trade, and climate diplomacy to enable US 47 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:14.479 to compete more successfully on a global scale. It should leverage the tremendous advantages 48 00:04:14.560 --> 00:04:20.240 we uniquely enjoy in innovation and technology, particularly in the maritime domain. Further 49 00:04:20.360 --> 00:04:26.040 on in the speech, towards the last third of it, quote continues, 50 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.720 as you're already aware, the People's Republic of China is building up its naval 51 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.560 fleet at a rapid pace. In a twenty years since I left activity, 52 00:04:34.279 --> 00:04:39.160 the PLA Navy has tripled in size and is on pace to have over four 53 00:04:39.240 --> 00:04:45.120 hundred naval warships by twenty thirty. I must also underscore to you, because 54 00:04:45.120 --> 00:04:49.000 it is far less widely understood, that the growth of the PRC's commercial maritime 55 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:55.759 power is a development more concerning than even its naval expansion. Our nation's most 56 00:04:55.800 --> 00:05:00.480 prominent naval strategist, Alfred Thairmahan, argue that a enaval power get maritime commercial 57 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:08.920 power, and control over maritime commercial power begets greater naval power. Today's PRC 58 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:14.000 readership has read and study Mahan's theory, and their actions show it. The 59 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.519 PRC is today the world's largest builder of commercial ocean going ships, although the 60 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:23.759 forty percent of the global market being built in Chinese shipyards. More concerning still 61 00:05:24.160 --> 00:05:30.399 Beijing leverages its dominant commercial ship building capacity and modern commercial shipyards and infrastructure to 62 00:05:30.480 --> 00:05:35.160 more efficiently produce its naval combatants. Chinese shipping firms have come to dominate the 63 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:42.040 worldwide commercial shipping industry. They have established an ownership stake in ninety five ports 64 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:47.240 across fifty three countries worldwide, including many of our own ports and those of 65 00:05:47.279 --> 00:05:56.519 our allies. Welcome to the party. But that's great to hear from the 66 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:00.759 sac NAV. It'd be interesting to see what follow a warm conversations that have. 67 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:06.120 Yeah, I had a lot of fun this afternoon because I started looking 68 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:09.680 at this and I went, you know, I think I've heard this before, 69 00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:14.079 and so I started digging. I started digging back into some history and 70 00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:20.560 there's there's like a oddly enough, the US Naval Institute has has it's celebrating 71 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:25.480 a one hundred and fiftieth year, and they put up some things that were 72 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:29.319 high but they thought were big moments and stuff they published, and one of 73 00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:33.680 them was in nineteen sixty five General Essay Prize Contests the sine Qua Non of 74 00:06:33.800 --> 00:06:41.279 USC Power the Merchant Ship by retired Admiral John D. Hayes, and he 75 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.399 gets right into this, I mean, it is you know, he thinks 76 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.160 that and goes through the litany of stuff. I mean, this isn't this 77 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:51.759 is in nineteen sixty five. At that time he said, you know, 78 00:06:51.920 --> 00:06:55.680 like I can't remember what the exact number was, but five per cent or 79 00:06:55.720 --> 00:07:00.120 four percent or two percent of US trades being carried on US ships. And 80 00:07:00.199 --> 00:07:02.519 you know, his suggestion was that the only way to get attention to this 81 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:09.720 matter was to to uh go into a get a maritime department. And we 82 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:13.279 need to go back to Jimmy Drenning being on the show, I think episode 83 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:15.560 six hundred and eight, because he keep proposing the same thing. But you've 84 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:18.120 got to figar that. You know, nineteen sixty five was quite a while 85 00:07:18.120 --> 00:07:23.120 and I'm not sure Drenning was alive back then. But you know, so 86 00:07:23.399 --> 00:07:26.480 none of this is new, and it is what do you have to do 87 00:07:26.519 --> 00:07:30.639 to get people's attention? And in that article about Admiral Hayes points he goes 88 00:07:31.079 --> 00:07:36.959 even further. There's a there was a nineteen fifty nine UH report called the 89 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:44.639 role of US Merchant Marine and National Security. It was under a Project Walrus 90 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.199 Report. I'll have to dig out the reference to that, but it goes 91 00:07:47.240 --> 00:07:51.399 through the same litany of stuff and you know, the the we've got, 92 00:07:53.079 --> 00:07:56.519 I mean, the starting paragraph of that US merchant marine is dechiating, most 93 00:07:56.519 --> 00:08:00.000 of the ships are nearly over age and long outmoded, blah blah blah. 94 00:08:00.120 --> 00:08:05.519 US flag shipping is carrying a steadily decreasing portion of US foreign trade at twelve 95 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:09.240 percent in nineteen fifty eight. You know, it is not like this is 96 00:08:09.319 --> 00:08:13.360 snuck up on people. And and uh, you know, we always one 97 00:08:13.399 --> 00:08:20.240 of the concerns some of these articles is we always look and I think I 98 00:08:20.240 --> 00:08:26.079 think the the the Admirald Hayes points out that we always look toward navy and 99 00:08:26.160 --> 00:08:28.720 weapons systems. We should have been as as a component of sea power. 100 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:35.159 And this is where Secretary of Delto gets it absolutely right. We need to 101 00:08:35.200 --> 00:08:41.440 look at the sea power component of our commercial shipping fleet. And he points 102 00:08:41.440 --> 00:08:46.080 out that the maritime strength or sea power, not nuclear weapon is the central 103 00:08:46.120 --> 00:08:48.519 factor of the world in the nineteen sixties, and I would say in the 104 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:56.039 two thousand and twenties, and uh it is he goes into what the Brits 105 00:08:56.039 --> 00:08:58.000 were saying back in those days, but he says, our failure to conceive 106 00:08:58.080 --> 00:09:03.519 of sea power in its integral whole may be due to our preceptor Alfred T. 107 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:09.360 Mayhan, who analyzed brilliantly it's naval side, but treating its mercantile aspects 108 00:09:09.399 --> 00:09:13.600 only in broad generalizations. I think that, you know, that is exactly 109 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:20.000 what we've done. We keep we you know, I know, as a 110 00:09:20.200 --> 00:09:24.279 young naval officer, however, really was concerned about about merchant ships. I 111 00:09:24.320 --> 00:09:26.080 just thought they were kind of a pain to have around because we're always trying 112 00:09:26.120 --> 00:09:31.399 to take In this article sixty in nineteen sixty five, he says, go 113 00:09:31.440 --> 00:09:33.759 on board these ships, go see what a container ship looks like, you 114 00:09:33.799 --> 00:09:37.200 know. And I'm beginning to see that as some of the new training comes 115 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:43.840 online, some of which is being done at merchant standards, maybe we're getting 116 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:48.960 young officers to get to pay some attention to what merchant shifts are like and 117 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.720 what they can do, and maybe that will help spread the word. But 118 00:09:52.759 --> 00:09:58.679 we also another part of del Toro's speech is, you know, investment in 119 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:01.879 ship yards. And I'm trying to think, okay, we're going to get 120 00:10:01.919 --> 00:10:05.679 our allies, are you know, like who Japan major ship builder, Korea, 121 00:10:05.759 --> 00:10:09.960 South Korea major ship builder. Theyre going to invest in US shipping to 122 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:13.039 compete against themselves, and I'm having trouble with that concept. We you know, 123 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:18.720 if we're going to have it's nice to have allies, and we either 124 00:10:18.759 --> 00:10:22.600 need to buy some stuff from those allies or we need to to really work 125 00:10:22.639 --> 00:10:30.720 hard to develop our own commercial shipping, construction, ports, and shipyards. 126 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.480 So I liked his speech. I think it covered a lot of interesting stuff, 127 00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:41.080 but I'm not quite sure what the what his answers are because he's not 128 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:43.320 really a position as Secretary of Navy to do a lot of stuff. But 129 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:50.559 if if the Navy Department got moved into a maritime department boyalty, that would 130 00:10:50.559 --> 00:10:54.120 be a whole different bolowax, especially if we could get it as a as 131 00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.320 a cabinet position. But we don't live on who live on my planet? 132 00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:01.919 Real? I don't, And I'm still thinking about the whole maritime statecraft because 133 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:05.480 statecraft means something else, but one thing. Because when we've talked about this 134 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:13.720 on a regular basis over a decade, we've always looked at it naturally as 135 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:18.879 predominantly a national security view, and we've also covered it a little bit at 136 00:11:18.919 --> 00:11:22.159 an economic view. We've done both sides of the equation. You know, 137 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.240 we had our friend from Cato over to tell us why the Jones Act is 138 00:11:26.279 --> 00:11:31.240 bad, and then we had a couple of our friends get the torches and 139 00:11:31.279 --> 00:11:33.679 pitchforks and come back and give it the opposite side of the equation. But 140 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:39.559 last year I've been trying to think more how do we make this argument, 141 00:11:41.240 --> 00:11:48.000 how do we educate and which is probably a good thing for a representative republic. 142 00:11:48.080 --> 00:11:54.720 Not everybody really thinks our cares about national security issues. Are understands how 143 00:11:56.000 --> 00:12:01.559 wet our globe is. They're more focused on domestic issues. Well, some 144 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.919 people are making the argument, and maybe more people need to make the argument. 145 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.240 Weaving in the national security aspect. But when you look at having a 146 00:12:09.279 --> 00:12:16.840 merchant fleet, whether it's building it, maintaining it, putting your personnel on 147 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:24.279 it's it brings in education. I e. To like we've we've talked with 148 00:12:24.279 --> 00:12:28.919 our friend Mark van Droff and a few other people in the industry. If 149 00:12:28.919 --> 00:12:31.360 we gave you so many million dollars, what would you do? They would 150 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:33.759 say that I'd buy a hundred new elders. These are good paying jobs. 151 00:12:33.759 --> 00:12:37.799 These are union jobs, so not in all club places, but in many 152 00:12:37.799 --> 00:12:45.840 of the places, and there are people who when they think of unions, 153 00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:50.240 they think of like the Service Employees International Union. That's one type of union, 154 00:12:50.639 --> 00:12:52.600 but we're talking about different types of unions. There are good unions out 155 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:58.840 there that are closer to the European model that are interested in good jobs with 156 00:12:58.960 --> 00:13:03.240 good pay and good forection, and then they get their labor dues out of 157 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:09.919 those good jobs with good protections. But if we increase our maritime industry to 158 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:15.159 what it should be, it's it would put a demand signal into our education 159 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:20.600 system because we are producing a lot of people who can't get jobs with what 160 00:13:20.639 --> 00:13:26.360 they've spent their time and money in college. And while we have other jobs 161 00:13:26.399 --> 00:13:30.159 are unfulfilled, these are good paying jobs. These are lifetime skill jobs, 162 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.720 and it can help a lot of our other parts of the country too. 163 00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:39.919 Which when you look at growing the fleet, you know we're in kind of 164 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:46.840 trouble right now because industry, we can't build the submarines we want, much 165 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:50.919 less maintain them. We're kind of tapped out in our other other major warfare 166 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:56.240 shipyards. But you know, are there other shipyards that can build other types 167 00:13:56.279 --> 00:13:58.279 of ships if we want to grow our navy. But you have to have 168 00:13:58.279 --> 00:14:03.080 the people who can build them. And I think Jerry Hendricks has made some 169 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:07.559 good done some good writing that there are parts of our country, whether you're 170 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:13.159 looking at the Great Lakes, the Mississippi and its tributaries in the center of 171 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:18.759 the country that has done shipbuilding in the past, but there's no demand signal 172 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:26.279 here. And I've developed a new appreciation for the Jones Act, and it's 173 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:31.759 imperfect in all but it is like sec now Del Toro mentioned a whole of 174 00:14:31.919 --> 00:14:35.840 government. It is going to be an a whole all of government because whether 175 00:14:35.840 --> 00:14:43.799 you're looking at the environmental impact statements to expand or build new yards, whether 176 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:50.480 you're talking about incentives at the high school, junior college, and college level 177 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.639 to focus in certain trades or educational areas, it will need it to sustain 178 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:03.960 that industry. I guess part of the following question is second has stood up 179 00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:09.279 and has said his peace. Who in the government's going to stand up next 180 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:11.919 to him? Who should those players be if this is going to be anything 181 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:18.320 more than just another speech that slowly fades in the breeze. Yeah, that's 182 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:22.480 a great question. And you know you're talking about demand signal. One of 183 00:15:22.480 --> 00:15:26.639 the here we are the perfect time for us. You know, we're now 184 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:33.639 going to go on another quasi continuing resolution to go until we get a budget. 185 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.960 You know, it is if I'm a ship the building company and I'm 186 00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:41.000 looking down the road, you know, I would like to have contracts that 187 00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:46.600 are are stable. I'm you know, I'm if it's the Constellation class frigates, 188 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:50.759 and that's that's fine. You know, maybe maybe we're funding those things 189 00:15:50.759 --> 00:15:52.799 and there the works going to continue. But if I'm looking down the road 190 00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.480 and say, okay, well do I want to bid on one and I 191 00:15:56.519 --> 00:16:03.679 want to build new uh fast attack surface ships of some kind, you know, 192 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:07.000 how how secure is that contract going to be? Every every year we 193 00:16:07.080 --> 00:16:11.159 have to go through this budget ritual and and uh and I don't know if 194 00:16:11.159 --> 00:16:15.120 I'm gonna ever get paid or when I'll get paid. It's really hard to 195 00:16:15.200 --> 00:16:19.480 run a business that way. I think. Sadly, we're also going into 196 00:16:19.600 --> 00:16:26.679 an election year and it's going to be hard to get anything to happen with 197 00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:30.720 the people who own the purse strings. And as they start to focus on 198 00:16:32.759 --> 00:16:37.159 their election, you know, how do you get that national focus. There 199 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.360 can be executive leadership from the executive branch, which I think, you know, 200 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:45.480 give credit where critic is due. Second, mab del Toro and his 201 00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:53.480 team has has put the conversation forward. I think he will have to keep 202 00:16:53.600 --> 00:17:00.519 saying what he has said at the Kennedy School over and over to the point 203 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:06.319 he's sick of saying it before he's able to get some traction. I know 204 00:17:06.359 --> 00:17:10.799 who the Secretary of Transportation is. If he had a gun to my head. 205 00:17:10.799 --> 00:17:14.039 I couldn't tell you who the Secretary of Education is. I really can't. 206 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:18.839 I don't know who else in the executive branch might be able to join 207 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.960 with this there. I think there are people in Congress who understand this really 208 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:27.799 well, but are they a critical mass enough to move the needle. I'm 209 00:17:27.799 --> 00:17:34.279 not sure, But I think everybody there is focused on the continuing Resolution and 210 00:17:34.519 --> 00:17:38.640 the twenty twenty four election from here, so maybe this is a twenty twenty 211 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:45.599 five issue. We'll have to see. Yeah. I you know, all 212 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:48.759 politics is local, and the only way the only way people are going to 213 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.960 get this to work is if if you know what we've done in the past, 214 00:17:52.279 --> 00:18:00.279 we're gonna We're gonna build a little bit of our spaceships are in in 215 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:04.359 Indiana. We're going to build pieces of it in in uh, New Mexico. 216 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:07.599 We're going to you know, that is the only way to make some 217 00:18:07.680 --> 00:18:11.759 of this stuff work because of the way the the people get elected. But 218 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.799 yeah, I mean the choice is for everybody who's interested in this, and 219 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:21.000 everybody in the country ought to be interested, is to go to your politicians 220 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:22.880 and say, what are you going to do about the navy? You know, 221 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.119 we need a big navy, you know. And and to to that 222 00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:30.480 point, Admirald Hayes in his article that I will put a link up to 223 00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:37.240 on the on the chat room says, people don't know. People who live 224 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:44.160 in in Nebraska or in Iowa, they don't They don't know about how important 225 00:18:44.160 --> 00:18:48.640 shipping is. Or maybe they do and we just don't. We don't emphasize 226 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.200 that enough so that they will appreciate that when their grain gets loaded on a 227 00:18:52.279 --> 00:18:56.759 barge and on the Mississippi River and gets floated down to New Orleans or down 228 00:18:56.759 --> 00:19:02.200 to Houston, that that is just the beginning of why we need a strong 229 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:08.160 merchant to fleet and a strong navy to keep to control the seas. And 230 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:12.039 it's not there's a you know, the big debate about about command of the 231 00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:17.400 seas and control of the seas it continues to go on, and command of 232 00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.559 the seas is something that we ought to, we ought to aspire to and 233 00:19:22.440 --> 00:19:25.240 continue to aspire to, rather than trying to do, you know, some 234 00:19:25.319 --> 00:19:30.640 kind of regional thing, which cuts back to our arguments against the way the 235 00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:36.759 Cocombs manage the naval assets they have and what they and the demand signal they 236 00:19:36.759 --> 00:19:41.559 send out. And yeah, there are ways too as opposed to you know, 237 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.680 bemoaning the fact we're coming up in an election year, which actually is 238 00:19:45.680 --> 00:19:48.960 a wonderful thing to actually have elections. We can leverage that too. You 239 00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:53.160 know, listeners of mid rats are other people in the maritime arena. Whether 240 00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:59.519 it's for Congress or the president or Senate. We're gonna have candidates that are 241 00:19:59.519 --> 00:20:03.160 gonna be doing town halls. They're going to be doing meet and greets, 242 00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:07.440 and they are not always but a lot of them ask you know, do 243 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:12.880 you have questions from the audience are as they're doing the doing the handshake line. 244 00:20:14.519 --> 00:20:18.079 Uh. Sometimes people will will take that as an opportunity to throw five 245 00:20:18.119 --> 00:20:23.920 words at the candidate. That's something that people who are are passionate with and 246 00:20:23.960 --> 00:20:30.640 knowledgeable of this issue use it as an opportunity both parties. This is a 247 00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:36.079 bipartisan effort, and that might be an interesting thing if you can have a 248 00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:40.319 candidate who goes hey. In the last seven uh, grip and grins, 249 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:45.319 I've gone to I've had four people ask me about building our navy. Who 250 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.359 are you know? Where's my where's my military department? Let's go talk some 251 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:55.480 and people listen. You'd be surprised, you know, whether whether you're you're. 252 00:20:56.279 --> 00:20:57.440 I don't want to use this example because it's kind of negative. I 253 00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:02.599 think people should be positive enough beat about it. But uh, it's an 254 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:07.440 opportunity to raise the issue, kind of a Norman Rockwell way. But I 255 00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:11.000 know that there's been some candidates in my area and I just haven't gone to 256 00:21:11.079 --> 00:21:15.119 it. Life is busy, but there's a critical mass out there. It's 257 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:18.559 better than asking other silly issues are just being quiet. Yeah. I think 258 00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:23.279 that that if since we are recognize that, we do recognize we've got a 259 00:21:23.359 --> 00:21:29.880 crisis, that some of the some of these uh people in Congress ought to 260 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:33.400 be suggesting, you know, to get us over the hump. We need 261 00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:41.960 to help our allies like the South Koreans or the Japanese help let them help 262 00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:48.799 us help ourselves by by by letting them, uh you know, easing off 263 00:21:48.839 --> 00:21:52.319 on some of the restrictions of the Jones Act. Some of those restrictions, 264 00:21:52.359 --> 00:21:55.799 you know, being that that every ship has to be US made. Now, 265 00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:59.240 I don't us manning I can. I appreciate, and I think we 266 00:21:59.279 --> 00:22:02.319 can get the body to do that, but you know, they until we 267 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:07.680 build up these these national shipyards. Again, I wouldn't hurt to have to 268 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.799 be able to use some of the vessels made by foreign manufacturers and in our 269 00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:19.799 in our international trade. I think one of the the interesting things we talked 270 00:22:19.799 --> 00:22:22.119 about this a little bit in the pre show. I guess this is kind 271 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:27.160 of a segue to move into it. Now there's we don't do it with 272 00:22:27.160 --> 00:22:37.519 warship construction, but for instness. The Australian large deck amphib was mostly built 273 00:22:37.799 --> 00:22:44.559 in Spain and then was finished up in the UK. I know some European 274 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:52.559 nations have had Romania and maybe Bulgaria could be wrong, do a lot of 275 00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:56.079 the fitting out there and then they bring it back and finish it up. 276 00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:00.599 It's not unheard of to do that. I don't think politically could do that 277 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:03.920 here in the US but there's other ways. I think AUCUS is an interesting 278 00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:10.839 construct is we're trying to help Australia, a nation with just a population of 279 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:17.759 a couple million more than the state of Florida, have a nuclear submarine capability. 280 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.680 US and the UK are going to work together with them to do that. 281 00:23:21.799 --> 00:23:26.599 It would be interesting to see some secondary effects of that in the nuclear 282 00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.240 industry that really Australia should have. It doesn't considering all the uranium they have 283 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:37.599 there. But that's that's an interesting idea on what we can partner with other 284 00:23:37.720 --> 00:23:45.519 nations that if not half a small percentage of But boy, politically, I 285 00:23:45.519 --> 00:23:48.720 don't know how well that would work here. Well, I mean I thought 286 00:23:48.759 --> 00:23:52.599 the Brits, you know, they're already saying we got we got a four 287 00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:59.079 billion dollar contract to work on OCCUS. You know, that's how you sell 288 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:02.720 it. It's seeing we got we're offering jobs, we've got we're gonna get 289 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:04.720 money and we're gonna build these things. And it's important for a lot of 290 00:24:04.759 --> 00:24:10.799 reasons. And uh, but also you know there it's going to create jobs 291 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.839 in the UK, it's going to create jobs in Australia, it's going to 292 00:24:14.839 --> 00:24:18.160 create jobs in the US. We just we need to keep banging on on 293 00:24:18.240 --> 00:24:22.279 that. And the jobs are are as you've already indicated, are well, 294 00:24:22.319 --> 00:24:26.240 they're well paying jobs. They're you know, it's not it's no longer the 295 00:24:26.240 --> 00:24:30.279 seventy five cents an hour kind of thing. It's it's some big bucks for 296 00:24:30.359 --> 00:24:36.920 people who can who undergo the training to learn how to weld and weld the 297 00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:42.720 kind of welding that needs to be done on somebody's high value platforms. Earlier 298 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:51.240 today, the British Ministry of Defense put out a nice little graphic talking about 299 00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:56.640 how they've they've moved into the design phase of the submarine for Aucus and there's 300 00:24:56.839 --> 00:25:03.920 a four billion pound contract which is what five billion dollars or so, and 301 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.599 the way they lead on it kind of folds in with our conversation. They 302 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:14.920 say it's a new five billion dollar contract. It's been awarded to progress the 303 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:21.400 program through the design and prototype phase, creating thousands of highly skilled engineering UK 304 00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:29.759 jobs. Construction of UK's nuclear powered submarines to primarily take place and barrow in 305 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:36.839 furnace and advanced submarines combining world leading sensors, design and weaponry will be ready 306 00:25:36.839 --> 00:25:41.599 by the late twenty thirties. Basically fifteen years from now. Shame we can't 307 00:25:41.599 --> 00:25:45.240 move faster, but that's how they're selling. It's like a capability. But 308 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.000 it creates jobs, their skilled jobs, so it kind of folds in. 309 00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.400 It's not just a national security issue. It's not just building ties with our 310 00:25:55.400 --> 00:25:59.759 friends and allies. But it's creating jobs for people. And you know, 311 00:26:00.279 --> 00:26:03.319 if you get early in on this contract, and you could spend an entire 312 00:26:03.400 --> 00:26:08.839 working career almost just working on the uh the aucust submarines in the UK at 313 00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:14.319 least. Yeah, and that, you know, that is that is the 314 00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:19.200 pitch that the US Navy and I think the Department of Defense need to be 315 00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:23.680 making too, which is, you know, the all we get. All 316 00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:27.119 we hear about in defense news sometimes is bad news stuff that you know, 317 00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:33.759 the barracks and some army base on many army bases are inadequate. The the 318 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:37.160 birthing barges the Navy used to have, I think we just got some new 319 00:26:37.160 --> 00:26:41.559 ones were inadequate. The uh, you know, all the bad news stuff. 320 00:26:41.599 --> 00:26:45.400 The good news stuff is that that. Yes, the all you know, 321 00:26:45.480 --> 00:26:48.920 we build a lot of equipment, a lot of it requires highly skilled 322 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.839 people to manufacture it. Uh, you know, the and the skill sets 323 00:26:52.839 --> 00:26:57.519 that you can that are are available are transferable from one. You know, 324 00:26:57.559 --> 00:27:02.559 if you're if you're a guy working on assembling faight teams, you know that's 325 00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:07.599 transferable to when we get the next generation aircraft and or you know, the 326 00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:11.240 unmanned program. So so you know, there's a lot of things like that 327 00:27:11.240 --> 00:27:15.359 that people need to understand how important this is for the future of the country 328 00:27:15.400 --> 00:27:18.680 and the kind of the kind of benefit they get from the programs that we 329 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.519 that we have rather than than uh, you know, kind of the the 330 00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.440 the bad side of the coin, which is, yeah, there are problems 331 00:27:27.480 --> 00:27:33.039 with the way thing we do things and not cleaning the barracks, I don't 332 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:36.200 I mean, I'm not sure if that was supposed to be a contractor job 333 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:42.119 that failed or just one of those other types of things. Yeah, usually 334 00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:47.759 those things at the sign of inattentive leadership more than anything else. Well, 335 00:27:47.759 --> 00:27:48.799 you know, they showed up work today, but do you know where they're 336 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:52.240 living? Has anybody been there to watch it? We've we've all seen that's 337 00:27:52.279 --> 00:27:56.759 what they're called helping Health and welfare inspections, Like, has anybody actually looked 338 00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:02.680 at how they're living? Yeah, that's a that's a good question. I 339 00:28:02.680 --> 00:28:10.480 mean, I know on board ship we had regular daily inspections of the burdening 340 00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.200 areas. I mean, it's just part of the job. Is there was 341 00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:21.799 an interesting figure. We're talking about nations sharing technology and build out is for 342 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:30.279 those that were tracking is an interesting discussion. Taiwan launched its first indigenous indigenous 343 00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:37.799 submarine, the High Kun class, and a lot of people were arguing whether 344 00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:41.440 that's the best investment or not of Taiwanese defense dollars. But an interesting little 345 00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:52.640 nugget of that is of the technology going into the submarine is not Taiwanese. 346 00:28:52.720 --> 00:29:00.440 It's mostly UK and US, so that's as a nice that's a benefit. 347 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:10.160 It's also an interesting submarine too. It's seventy meters long, displaces about twenty 348 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:12.599 five hundred tons, And for a reference mark, when you look at a 349 00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:18.160 real small submarine, you have the the Swedish Gotland class submarine that's sixty point 350 00:29:18.200 --> 00:29:23.240 five meters long, displaces about sixteen hundred tons. Everybody knows what the Russian 351 00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:30.480 Kilo is. It's the same length is the new Taiwanese submarines. It's seventy 352 00:29:30.519 --> 00:29:36.720 meters that displaces a little bit more at about three thousand tons, which seems 353 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.359 a pretty pretty nice sized submarine for a nation the size of Switzerland or Moldova 354 00:29:41.519 --> 00:29:48.480 or stuff. It's if you look at the Taiwanese they've had, They've wanted 355 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:52.640 new submarines for a long time. They had old World War Two US submarines, 356 00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:57.759 then they got the previous generation Dutch submarines. Nobody will build them for 357 00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:03.119 them. They sure seemed to feel the need that they need a good coastal 358 00:30:03.160 --> 00:30:08.240 submarine, so getting some US and UK technology to put in it. That 359 00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:14.119 looks like they're going to be building. I've seen one figure big out planned 360 00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:19.519 to build about eight So good for the Taiwanese. Yeah, you know that. 361 00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:26.640 I never questioned. I hardly ever questioned the demands of people are actually 362 00:30:26.680 --> 00:30:30.079 in the fight saying oh, you know, I could really use this, 363 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.240 or this is I think this is important. It's not one of those This 364 00:30:33.279 --> 00:30:38.000 doesn't seem to me to be one of those dictator Uh, I really need 365 00:30:38.000 --> 00:30:44.279 to have a battleship scenarios you see in some in the past, in some 366 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:48.440 countries. You know this, this this has practical application for the environment they 367 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:57.880 operate in. It's definitely not a vanity project. I hope not. It's 368 00:30:57.960 --> 00:31:02.920 kind of like the I think. I think good people can argue the sides 369 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:06.759 of the equation, but it's kind of like your ongoing argument of trying to 370 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:12.119 get F sixteens into Ukraine. Oh six, you know, Ukraine doesn't need 371 00:31:12.200 --> 00:31:17.319 F sixteens. They don't need the fighter planes the Ukraine into Quine. Excuse 372 00:31:17.359 --> 00:31:21.000 me. I think we would like to have them. That would be awesome. 373 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.920 A lot of the stuff that you've seen from Ukraine is and I don't 374 00:31:26.920 --> 00:31:30.039 know how they're going to fill this gap, but something beats nothing. Maybe 375 00:31:30.079 --> 00:31:34.599 the F sixteens can do it. I don't know, but they've used the 376 00:31:34.839 --> 00:31:40.240 French scalf. I believe it is how you pronounce it. I think it's 377 00:31:40.319 --> 00:31:45.799 the French version of the British storm Shadow. They've been launching from their SU 378 00:31:45.880 --> 00:31:56.559 twenty four's that has really proven to be a great capability. I heard an 379 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:02.119 interesting commentary that the Germans have of what do they call it, the Taurus 380 00:32:02.240 --> 00:32:10.319 bull whatever. Toro Taurus is a similar capability to that that looking at the 381 00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:15.240 success they've had the Ukrainians have had with the storm Shallow and the scalp, 382 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:20.000 they've decided well, we're not going to give us to the Ukrainians because it's 383 00:32:21.119 --> 00:32:24.400 too destabilizing, i e. Effective. I guess the Germans are a little 384 00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:31.160 a little touchy about that for some reason. All of a sudden, Yeah, 385 00:32:31.720 --> 00:32:38.319 I don't I don't understand what's happened to Germany, but you know, 386 00:32:38.400 --> 00:32:45.039 that's just what they're They're willing to export arms all around the world that they 387 00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:52.599 make, except apparently to one of their neighbors or nearby neighbors. So I 388 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:57.640 was like, we're gonna We're gonna build an export tanks and self repelled halwitcher's. 389 00:32:57.720 --> 00:33:00.480 But wait, wait, don't use these at war, Like, well, 390 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:06.079 that's why people buy these things, at least, not against countries that 391 00:33:06.119 --> 00:33:10.640 we're carrying favor with or are defended on for natural gas supplies or whatever. 392 00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.079 Yeah, that's uh, it's bizarre. Yeah, it's good for South Korea 393 00:33:16.119 --> 00:33:21.960 though, that's that's who Poland is. The other nations are starting to partner 394 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:25.759 with to build up their forces with their their K two tank. I saw 395 00:33:25.799 --> 00:33:30.119 a real it was kind of a mini documentary about how all of a sudden, 396 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:37.640 South Korea became such a land combat power, and it described when they 397 00:33:37.680 --> 00:33:40.599 were first getting into I think it was an upgrade to the M sixty the 398 00:33:43.240 --> 00:33:46.079 in the US. They realized that the South Korean little lessons learned here the 399 00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.279 South Korean engineers, we're doing more than just doing what they were told, 400 00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:58.480 to the point they had to draw little lines down various places in the R 401 00:33:58.559 --> 00:34:02.240 and D Department that the South Koreans could walk down and nowhere else because say 402 00:34:02.240 --> 00:34:07.239 they're getting a little handsy with the information. But that gave them the ability 403 00:34:07.320 --> 00:34:12.840 to figure a few things out that they could build what really are world class 404 00:34:12.880 --> 00:34:19.159 self fulfilled Hallwitzer's I think they call it the Crab and the K two tank. 405 00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:25.239 Now I think about my dad's generation. My dad didn't fight in the 406 00:34:25.280 --> 00:34:30.239 Korean War, but a lot of his peers did. That You look at 407 00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:42.199 what South Korea was in the immediate postwar aftermath, credibly poor agricultural place. 408 00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:47.719 You look at what they've done over the course of the last sixty seventy years 409 00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.880 or so. It really I think puts everybody on report. Going back to 410 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:55.760 what we talked about earlier, that if we're going to have this maritime state 411 00:34:55.800 --> 00:35:00.239 craft, if it gets some leverage and we decide that we've all heard the 412 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:06.679 excuses. Well, here we are a continent sized nation, a three hundred 413 00:35:06.679 --> 00:35:12.440 and thirty million souls. We can't build a shipyard here. We can't do 414 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:16.280 this, We can't do that. You look at what the South Koreans did 415 00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:24.840 from literally nothing, very little intellectual capital, almost no industrial capacity. They're 416 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.360 capital nothing but piles of rubble. And they really were able to build it 417 00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:37.159 because they had leadership, they had will, and they were able to to 418 00:35:37.599 --> 00:35:49.800 have a consistent point cric you're covering from more. Our cities haven't been leveled 419 00:35:50.280 --> 00:35:55.119 in living memory. It's a shame that we don't get more effective response than 420 00:35:55.159 --> 00:36:00.920 we get excuses why we can't. I think it's more like we don't want 421 00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:07.440 to for a variety of reasons. Well it it doesn't. You know, 422 00:36:07.480 --> 00:36:10.639 it depends on the the needs of the party in power. And that's what 423 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:16.039 kind of surprised me about Secretary Dale Toro's speech, is it. Uh, 424 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.000 you know, he's he's indicating this is all supported by the by the current 425 00:36:21.000 --> 00:36:25.440 administration. And if it is, that's great, but you know, the 426 00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:36.840 the the focus of effort has to be on on either waving or having realistic 427 00:36:36.960 --> 00:36:39.199 things like environmental goals. You're gonna start a shipyard, you want to make 428 00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:44.280 sure that that you know, down the road, you know, what you 429 00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:50.199 do today won't won't ten years from now be discovered to be a major violation 430 00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:53.320 of some environmental thing which would cause you to be shut down. It's you 431 00:36:53.360 --> 00:36:58.480 know, it is. It is a that's where the whole of government thing 432 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:02.719 comes in. You really have to have this stuff vetted before you before you 433 00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:08.119 turn the first shovel. And the other side of the South Korean miracle is 434 00:37:08.159 --> 00:37:15.360 that they, you know, the government, the government finances a substantial amount 435 00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:19.760 of their shipyards and stuff, and and uh it is and the same thing 436 00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.599 with Japan for that matter. I mean any of these countries that if there 437 00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:28.880 are going these major projects, uh you know they're not. They're they're spending 438 00:37:29.639 --> 00:37:37.159 tax money to help those industries develop. And if if we're asking American business 439 00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:42.800 to to invest in shipyards, then we better be willing town up, pony 440 00:37:42.880 --> 00:37:47.320 up either tremendous tax cuts advantages for them or to provide that that funding that 441 00:37:47.519 --> 00:37:53.519 sometimes we offer and then never really come through it. It's kind of like 442 00:37:53.559 --> 00:38:00.800 the inside joke shipyards are infrastructure. Well, it sounds like a smart athlete 443 00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:05.280 comment but it's actually true in a few ways. You know, let's look 444 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:14.639 at let's discuss a little infrastructure, the interstate highway system, largely funded by 445 00:38:14.679 --> 00:38:16.880 the government, and you know a few other taxes here and there. But 446 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:22.719 but why Yeah, there's Eisenhower like the fact of being able to move troops 447 00:38:22.719 --> 00:38:24.480 real fast over the German Audubon. It's like, hey, that'd be great 448 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:30.559 to have here. But what you could you could make the line to say 449 00:38:30.679 --> 00:38:36.000 that was a subsidy to the car industry because more people were going to buy 450 00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.599 cars, To the oil industry, to the tire industry. Yeah, you 451 00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:45.920 could say that, but it had multiple knock on effects, just like a 452 00:38:46.800 --> 00:38:57.599 revitalized maritime infrastructure in the US. Would it benefit your big defense contractors and 453 00:38:57.719 --> 00:39:02.079 other companies, Sure it would. I would have benefit unions, Yeah, 454 00:39:02.119 --> 00:39:05.880 it would benefit unions, but it would also benefit a lot of people, 455 00:39:06.440 --> 00:39:10.960 have benefit the nation. And I was recently had a chance to go through 456 00:39:12.039 --> 00:39:17.079 what used to be and there's a remnant of it there the naval base in 457 00:39:17.199 --> 00:39:23.679 North Charleston, which is a series of brownfield sites now and they've converted some 458 00:39:23.760 --> 00:39:30.800 of the buildings there into museums, are craft breweries or stuff like that. 459 00:39:30.440 --> 00:39:35.800 But much of that area is and you can if you've seen it from the 460 00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.400 area, you can see it as well. It's just it's brownfields, it's 461 00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:44.639 post industrial. You know, there are places that we can claw back some 462 00:39:44.719 --> 00:39:47.679 of that square footage. I think, especially in North Charleston area, if 463 00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:50.960 we don't do it in the next five to ten years, we'll never get 464 00:39:50.960 --> 00:39:53.760 it back. Because for those who haven't been to Charleston in the last ten 465 00:39:53.840 --> 00:40:00.599 or fifteen years, they're buildings are really nice housing moving up towards Charleston. 466 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:05.360 It is changing dramatically in some areas that eventually you just won't be able to 467 00:40:05.360 --> 00:40:07.840 build anything. They are kind of like what has happened to much of what 468 00:40:07.000 --> 00:40:12.880 used to be the Brooklyn Navy Yard. But I don't know where you'd be 469 00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:16.920 able to put new places per se, but there are former places that could 470 00:40:16.920 --> 00:40:22.760 be revitalized. But going back to what we've mentioned before, who is going 471 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:27.840 to stand up next to secnav del Toro and say, here's he said a 472 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:30.960 whole of government. Well here's another part of government, and here's how we 473 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:34.800 look at it. And you know which states are going to step up and 474 00:40:35.159 --> 00:40:38.760 offer because there's some state issues if you're going to expand shipyard capacity in some 475 00:40:38.840 --> 00:40:46.559 places. That's that's what we're waiting for. I hope that there's some master 476 00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:55.239 plan in the president administration and in Congress, that they already have a rollout 477 00:40:55.280 --> 00:41:01.400 plan in place. I don't think so mean believe this is just sec now 478 00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:07.800 del Toro stepping forward and putting the flag in the ground and see if anybody 479 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:13.199 rallies to his banner. Uh. Perhaps that's a bit pessimistic, but I 480 00:41:13.199 --> 00:41:16.920 don't I don't see any other indications. Well, I think would be helpful 481 00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:22.239 if Secretary of Defense stood up and said, yeah, you know so, 482 00:41:23.039 --> 00:41:29.880 uh this is really important and because we can't move troops overseas without shipping and 483 00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.639 all that good stuff. And you know, we're gonna gonna uh what do 484 00:41:35.719 --> 00:41:40.800 we what do we always say we're gonna cut to to invest, We're going 485 00:41:40.840 --> 00:41:45.559 to take some money from the army and uh, yeah, it takes some 486 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:50.559 money from the army and and give it to the Coast Guard and the Navy 487 00:41:50.639 --> 00:41:53.719 to develop some of this stuff. You know that that is that is the 488 00:41:53.800 --> 00:41:58.880 kind of support that's needed and and you know it's not that we're gonna uh 489 00:42:00.199 --> 00:42:04.800 you know if they could raise a defense budget half a billion dollars. You 490 00:42:04.840 --> 00:42:07.199 know that. I don't want that. I don't Let's make sure it's not 491 00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:13.199 split evenly among the services. Who needs the most money right now? How 492 00:42:13.239 --> 00:42:15.280 to drive some of those issues? And that you know, Congress says a 493 00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:20.599 say on that too. Well, this is this is where I roll out 494 00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.480 one of my hobby horses. In a perfect world, dislike it. The 495 00:42:23.519 --> 00:42:30.599 old phrase was only Nixon could go to China, only secdeff Austin could go 496 00:42:30.679 --> 00:42:37.639 after the Army's pocketbook to fund the Air Force in the Navy. But I 497 00:42:37.679 --> 00:42:42.239 don't see any indications that a former US Army Force star is going to go 498 00:42:42.280 --> 00:42:49.880 against his service like that. Another case an example why retired general officers and 499 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:57.599 flag officers probably shouldn't be secretary Defense politicians who understand what's that what's that great 500 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.599 phrase from home from Red October? Well, I'm not kissing babies and stealing 501 00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:05.199 money from their back pockets. You need a little bit of the politician in 502 00:43:05.280 --> 00:43:10.360 that office, which which unfortunately we don't have right now. Yeah. Well, 503 00:43:13.920 --> 00:43:16.840 you know, sometimes what's the old saying, If you when you're out 504 00:43:16.880 --> 00:43:21.199 of money, sometimes you have to think, so you know, the Marines, 505 00:43:22.039 --> 00:43:24.840 the Marines. The Marines are thinking, I mean, and I'm seeing 506 00:43:24.880 --> 00:43:30.159 a lot of like the unmanned uh US ships that have gone to Japan. 507 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:34.559 You know, the Navy's thinking, we're gonna how do we use these unmanned 508 00:43:34.599 --> 00:43:37.079 ships. They're a lot less expensive, we don't have the personnel expenses. 509 00:43:38.159 --> 00:43:43.559 You know what? What what is the and I think you've pointed out, 510 00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:45.920 you know what's going to stop some of these unmanned things from some five guys 511 00:43:45.920 --> 00:43:49.599 on a crowbar? But uh, you know, how how are we going 512 00:43:49.679 --> 00:43:52.079 to deal with that issue? How do we protect them? How do they 513 00:43:52.599 --> 00:43:55.039 protect themselves anyway? You know, But we've got it, We've got to 514 00:43:55.079 --> 00:44:04.800 be pushing these Let's assume you can't get money to build another uh whatever the 515 00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:07.519 follow under the early Birch is going to be the d D DG X or 516 00:44:08.079 --> 00:44:12.960 CGX or whatever we're gonna come with next. But you know what, what 517 00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:14.960 are we going to do? How are we going to deal with that? 518 00:44:15.079 --> 00:44:19.119 And I think those are the issues where we need some creative thinking and it 519 00:44:19.119 --> 00:44:23.159 can be done in smaller shipyards than than uh than you know, the great 520 00:44:23.159 --> 00:44:28.679 big ones like the ones that are building the carriers in Norfolk, and are 521 00:44:28.760 --> 00:44:35.360 the merchand type halls in h in San Diego. You've got I think you 522 00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:37.280 you brought up a good, good topic. We should all give a lot 523 00:44:37.360 --> 00:44:46.280 of respect to the Marine Corps. They have a tradition of experimentation that that 524 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:51.920 one of my favorite examples. I remember as a young man, I was 525 00:44:51.960 --> 00:45:00.239 reading a book about the US Marines in Nicaragua before World War Two, or 526 00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:02.840 was it before World War One anyway, and then early nineteen hundreds, Uh, 527 00:45:04.199 --> 00:45:06.719 yeah, it would have been after World War One because of the following. 528 00:45:07.239 --> 00:45:09.679 They this is before helicopters, when they're still you know, he had 529 00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:15.320 gyrocopters and they the Marines were experiment with some gyrocopters and they said, well, 530 00:45:15.360 --> 00:45:20.440 hey, we have a brush war down in Nicaraga. Send the gyrocopters 531 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:23.880 down there and see what marines can do it. And that's really kind of 532 00:45:23.880 --> 00:45:29.000 like what we talked about with with Jerry Hendricks almost a decade ago, when 533 00:45:29.079 --> 00:45:34.920 we land land the unmanned aircraft and launched it off the end of the carrier 534 00:45:35.239 --> 00:45:39.519 and then the Navy promptly hit him in warehouses next to the Ark of the 535 00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:44.639 Covenant. And we never attemper to be seen again that give them to the 536 00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:49.440 fleet, let him experiment. Maybe it'll be a quasi dead end like the 537 00:45:49.519 --> 00:45:53.679 gyrocopters, but I think that's probably you know, let everybody understand when the 538 00:45:53.679 --> 00:45:58.039 helicopter matured, how that could be useful. But you know you mentioned the 539 00:45:58.559 --> 00:46:01.559 unmanned vehicles going off Japan. Just read a little bit from the article. 540 00:46:02.159 --> 00:46:07.159 Four unmanned ships are now operating off Japan for the first time as part of 541 00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:12.679 the US Navy's Integrated Battle Problem twenty three dot TO exercise aimed at folding these 542 00:46:12.760 --> 00:46:19.360 unmanned vessels into routine fleet operation. These unmanned surface vessels aren't competing, aren't 543 00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:24.719 operating under special protocols or extra safety measures. The US feed Division one commander 544 00:46:24.760 --> 00:46:30.039 told reporters they are being used as fully operational tools, not experimental ones, 545 00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:36.320 to help man ships conduct their missions in the Pacific as part of this exercise. 546 00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:39.079 End of quote. That's the way to do it. Give it to 547 00:46:39.119 --> 00:46:45.480 the fleet, say comment on, go forward and let us know what great 548 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:50.159 things you do, or tell us why it's ugly. That's that's that's nice 549 00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:53.840 to see. That's that's the way to do it. Either to validate some 550 00:46:53.840 --> 00:46:58.039 some ideas with thought would work, or to have us go back to the 551 00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:02.079 drawing board and a few others. It'll be very very interesting to see the 552 00:47:02.159 --> 00:47:07.320 unclassified postex to that if they put anything out. I'm sure that the stuff 553 00:47:07.360 --> 00:47:09.880 behind the skiff will be really interesting. But that's the way to do it, 554 00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:15.320 and we needed that that type of iterative process where you just like we 555 00:47:15.360 --> 00:47:20.119 saw during the twenties and the thirties where they had the dirigibles and then they 556 00:47:20.199 --> 00:47:24.039 had the seaplanes and then they had our initial aircraft carriers. It's like, 557 00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:28.039 hey, let's just go out there and see how these things work. That's 558 00:47:28.119 --> 00:47:31.440 how you really find out if they're going to be if they're going to wind 559 00:47:31.480 --> 00:47:36.599 up having a gyrocopter or you're gonna wind up having a dive bomber, because 560 00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:42.400 you just have to go out there and experiment. Yeah, we were some 561 00:47:42.480 --> 00:47:45.519 of us have been laughing. There. There's a heavy lift drone that's been 562 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:51.960 launching anti submarine torpedoes. Have you seen that stuff? And yeah, and 563 00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:57.239 I just I go back to wait a minute, you know, fifty fifty 564 00:47:57.320 --> 00:48:00.760 years ago we had that system on board ship. I mean, it wasn't 565 00:48:00.840 --> 00:48:05.079 perfect, but we had DASH. We had the Drone anti submary helicopter and 566 00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:12.519 it was it job to go out and drop weapons on submarines. And and 567 00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.719 then it also got creative. People would do things like put a television camera 568 00:48:15.760 --> 00:48:21.679 on it and use it to spot targets for off Vietnam. They were there 569 00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:25.480 for gunfire spotting, you know. And that program got trashed and instead of 570 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:30.679 having unmanned aircraft doing some of these missions, we started we started building destroyers 571 00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:36.840 and we put the little uh C sprites helicopters on there that which required a 572 00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:43.800 couple of pilots and a group of people that maintain them. But the DASH 573 00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:47.920 was theoretically indigenous to the destroyers. It was on and they had special people 574 00:48:49.000 --> 00:48:52.519 work on it. But it wouldn't It wasn't you know, a gaggle of 575 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:57.960 pilots who no offense to pilots. I happen to know a couple intimately. 576 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:02.840 But they grew crew rest was not an issue for the for the DASH people. 577 00:49:04.599 --> 00:49:07.440 I think, long after we quit playing within, the Japanese actually did 578 00:49:07.440 --> 00:49:10.199 a better job with than we did and use them for a long time. 579 00:49:10.320 --> 00:49:15.320 I remember reading about the development of DASH. You know, that's for you 580 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:20.039 kiddies out there back in the day. Uh, pretty much everybody carried a 581 00:49:20.119 --> 00:49:24.159 nuke invention in addition to conventionals. Uh, you know, P three's carried 582 00:49:24.320 --> 00:49:29.519 carried nukes. Surface ships carried nukes. Everybody nukes for all my friends, 583 00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:35.920 whether AAW or as you had the old as Rock. And when they're working 584 00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:38.280 with DASH, there's like, hey, we could put a nuclear death bomb 585 00:49:38.360 --> 00:49:42.679 on this, or we could drop somebody with excuse me, you're going to 586 00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:45.760 put a nuclear weapon on something that could just go off of the horizon and 587 00:49:45.880 --> 00:49:49.280 never come back if you can't recall it. No, we're not putting nukes 588 00:49:49.280 --> 00:49:52.000 on DASH. So they would just going to do the conventional. But yeah, 589 00:49:52.159 --> 00:49:54.639 what is old is new again? And I think you hit on something 590 00:49:54.719 --> 00:50:01.599 there as well. Is the flexibilit of you know, DASH two electric boogaloo 591 00:50:01.719 --> 00:50:07.039 whatever they're calling it. I don't know. But it can carry a lightweight 592 00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:16.280 torpedo, It can carry a reconnaissance package. Can it carry a few hundred 593 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.639 pounds of whatever you want it to carry? It? Sure? Can? 594 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:25.360 It has some inherent flexibility like a I don't know whether we talk about offline 595 00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.119 or the last time we had Matt Hippolo on here because yeah, he served 596 00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:35.559 on an Independence Class LCS. I've always said, of the two, if 597 00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:38.639 you forced me to have one, I'd always take the LCS two simply because 598 00:50:38.960 --> 00:50:45.199 it's got a lot of square footage. With square footage and spare capacity gets 599 00:50:45.199 --> 00:50:50.880 flexibility because the one thing we all know is you can think you know what 600 00:50:51.199 --> 00:50:55.239 future conflicts and requirements will need, but that's not what they're going to be. 601 00:50:55.440 --> 00:51:02.000 So how flexible are you, both materially and intellectual to adjust new techniques, 602 00:51:02.559 --> 00:51:07.039 new material, new procedures, new requirements as they reveal themselves in the 603 00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:12.960 course of conflict. And that big old quad cop I think I think it 604 00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:17.199 was a quad copter, and I can see all sorts of stuff including I 605 00:51:17.199 --> 00:51:23.920 don't know if it's related to but similar to Claude Bearabay's latest book Philippine Pact, 606 00:51:24.599 --> 00:51:32.239 where the they were using unmanned quad copters for to remove wounded people. 607 00:51:32.639 --> 00:51:37.519 Basically, you've set of waiting for a helicopter, you take somebody, you've 608 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:42.000 put an IVY in their arms, slap under a quad copter and program it 609 00:51:42.079 --> 00:51:45.320 and off to the hospital they go. So there's a lot if you can 610 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:51.440 carry a lightweight torpedo, you can carry a lot of other things, and 611 00:51:51.480 --> 00:51:55.199 that's a real interesting capability. Again, give it to the fleet, give 612 00:51:55.239 --> 00:52:00.280 them a little leeway, give them a little money, says and Commadian officers. 613 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:07.360 They can they can tell you the utility better than the theoretical guys. 614 00:52:07.400 --> 00:52:14.199 And at at point Magoo are over at great neck. Yeah. You know, 615 00:52:14.559 --> 00:52:17.800 if somebody asked me when I was a young officer on board a destroyer, 616 00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.280 what would I want out of a out of an unmanned aircraft, I 617 00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:24.159 would say I wanted to be able to go over with the horizon and tell 618 00:52:24.199 --> 00:52:29.519 me what's over there so I can go m con And I wanted to be 619 00:52:29.559 --> 00:52:34.239 able to talk to me securely somehow, like laser or something, so that 620 00:52:34.719 --> 00:52:37.599 it'll be it'll be high enough that it can it can transmit back to me, 621 00:52:37.639 --> 00:52:40.480 but it can show me things that I can't see unless I radiate and 622 00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:44.679 all that good stuff. And I want to be able to to uh to 623 00:52:44.920 --> 00:52:47.079 uh control that and know what's on the other, you know, around the 624 00:52:47.079 --> 00:52:50.599 corner, so to speak. You know, it's what marines are doing on 625 00:52:50.599 --> 00:52:52.400 the ground now. They you know, they'll carry a little tiny drones and 626 00:52:53.000 --> 00:52:55.719 use them to see what's around the corner when they're in a in an op 627 00:52:57.320 --> 00:53:00.519 Uh, that's terrific. That's that's the same thing. How to be doing 628 00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:04.400 with these what's for shipboard you slam? You know, and I assume we're 629 00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.119 doing some of that. I don't always know what's going on on a daily 630 00:53:07.159 --> 00:53:10.480 basis, but man, I could think all kinds of fun things to do 631 00:53:10.519 --> 00:53:15.480 with if I had an asset like that out at sea. And I think 632 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:22.039 one of the things we saw that with the whole fire Scout program is one 633 00:53:22.079 --> 00:53:27.599 of the things that they were trying to hide so much is the loss rate 634 00:53:27.960 --> 00:53:31.519 because on manned systems, for a variety of reasons. For instance, you 635 00:53:31.559 --> 00:53:37.320 can't troubleshoot things like you can in a manned aircraft as their things mechanically go 636 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:42.199 sideways like they do, our weather appears that you didn't expect, you know, 637 00:53:42.320 --> 00:53:46.559 dot dot dot. They would really trying to hide the loss rate. 638 00:53:46.639 --> 00:53:52.920 I think what we've seen in the Russia Ukrainian War that directly translates into all 639 00:53:53.039 --> 00:53:59.440 your unmanned systems if you go into it knowing, hey, this is not 640 00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:02.840 as real, bust are as capable as a man platform. But you know 641 00:54:02.880 --> 00:54:07.239 what it's less expensive, I can buy more. I don't expect these to 642 00:54:07.400 --> 00:54:14.199 last for years, really months if I'm using them. They don't require regular 643 00:54:14.519 --> 00:54:20.239 certifications and qualifications. They can be designed to be taken off the shelf with 644 00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:27.480 a minimal amount of PMS and be ready for showtime. That and that's okay. 645 00:54:27.599 --> 00:54:34.559 So you know, our lightweight torpedo carrying quad coptors, if we build 646 00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:40.920 them to be quote expendable unquote, we could probably get more cost less per 647 00:54:42.039 --> 00:54:45.480 unit, because if you build it thinking it's going to last five years, 648 00:54:45.519 --> 00:54:50.039 when everybody knows it'll last two, you're wasting a lot of money over engineering 649 00:54:50.119 --> 00:54:57.360 something. I think that expendable nature is more of a benefit than anything else. 650 00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:01.599 The fact that you can send them places and if if it doesn't come 651 00:55:01.639 --> 00:55:07.559 back, that's okay because as opposed for the money I could have spent to 652 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:15.320 have one fire scout, Charlie, I've got eight of these other quad copters. 653 00:55:15.360 --> 00:55:20.719 I'll just call my call my aw two down in the hangar deck and 654 00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:24.320 tell them to prep dash two and off it goes. So I think that's 655 00:55:24.360 --> 00:55:28.519 that you're seeing more of that too, that understanding that these things can be 656 00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:34.199 expendable. Yeah, you know the reason they got off on this you were 657 00:55:34.199 --> 00:55:40.199 talking about the the gyrocopters, you know, the because they don't their rotor 658 00:55:42.000 --> 00:55:45.119 doesn't really it's not powered. It's I mean, the forward motion of the 659 00:55:45.159 --> 00:55:51.719 aircraft powers the is what powers it, and the rotor is just a wing. 660 00:55:52.840 --> 00:55:55.480 And and one of the problems with with Dash and a lot of the 661 00:55:55.480 --> 00:56:00.159 other helicopter things is that helicopters are really complex pieces of machinery. I mean, 662 00:56:00.159 --> 00:56:02.800 they're kind of like the bumblebee. I'm not sure they're really supposed to 663 00:56:02.840 --> 00:56:08.800 fly, but they do somehow so and that you know, you want simplicity 664 00:56:08.920 --> 00:56:14.480 more than anything else. You want simplicity. And I can see a market 665 00:56:14.519 --> 00:56:21.000 for gyrocopter drones. Uh. You know that you don't have to have the 666 00:56:21.079 --> 00:56:23.480 rotors going up. You just need to have enough power to go forward and 667 00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:27.280 had to get the lift you need from your from the rotor you do have, 668 00:56:27.639 --> 00:56:30.519 and that, you know, I think that's that would be a system. 669 00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:32.920 By the way, these the torpedo dropping drones that they say is the 670 00:56:32.920 --> 00:56:37.719 size of a small car and which is about the size of Dash actually and 671 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:44.719 uh carry up to four hundred, four hundred and forty pounds of course, 672 00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:50.400 the I think we've talked about it here before. I know I talked to 673 00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:54.000 Claude about it because Claudes are are residents sci fi geek. But we were 674 00:56:54.039 --> 00:57:00.679 talking about the drone that we were developing that we talked about earlier with Jerry, 675 00:57:00.719 --> 00:57:04.360 that we're you know now hidden with the Ark of the Covenant, and 676 00:57:04.400 --> 00:57:07.079 I said, the ultimate what my vision would be is we have something that 677 00:57:07.119 --> 00:57:13.480 we can stack up like in Battlestar Galactica the second run of the show, 678 00:57:13.880 --> 00:57:17.440 how to stack up like so many potato chips, you know, just one, 679 00:57:17.480 --> 00:57:21.360 two, three, four, five, and you just pull them off 680 00:57:21.400 --> 00:57:24.679 the shelf and you send it off and going. That would be a great 681 00:57:24.719 --> 00:57:30.400 way to do it. But you've got this institutional take. You look at 682 00:57:30.480 --> 00:57:35.079 some of the quad copters, even some of the larger agricultural ones, which 683 00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.760 I think this is probably derived from. I don't know. Have you've seen 684 00:57:37.239 --> 00:57:44.360 what the Ukraines have done these agricultural Back on my hunting property last week, 685 00:57:44.840 --> 00:57:50.320 the crop sprayers were flying around on the cotton crop, which was which was 686 00:57:50.360 --> 00:57:54.360 fun to watch. Free air show. These agricultural copters do about the same 687 00:57:54.400 --> 00:58:00.280 thing. They carry a few hundred pounds of insecticide underneath, and we'll automatically 688 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:07.559 do your eighty acres just like a crop duster would. They've they've used those 689 00:58:07.760 --> 00:58:13.119 as a little miniature precision bombers, taking those anti take mines and turn them 690 00:58:13.159 --> 00:58:20.639 into drop bombs instead. But they fold in the four arms that hold each 691 00:58:20.679 --> 00:58:24.760 of the rotors. Uh, kind of like a transformer for for those who 692 00:58:24.800 --> 00:58:29.079 bought those for your kids. Where they fold in, it becomes a very 693 00:58:29.079 --> 00:58:35.079 small compact package. Yeah. That how that scales up. I guess as 694 00:58:35.119 --> 00:58:39.280 an engineering problem. It probably costs more to design it that way. But 695 00:58:39.440 --> 00:58:45.039 if you assume they're expendable and you want a large number, uh, that 696 00:58:45.039 --> 00:58:49.280 that's part of the acceleration. I think it will see out of the experience 697 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.719 of the Russia Ukrainian War. That will directly translate into the maritime sphere because 698 00:58:54.760 --> 00:59:02.519 on board ship space is a premium h how many they thinks are electric too, 699 00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:08.119 right, so that the the the the rotors on them are direct drive 700 00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:12.559 there. You don't need all the gizmos on a like you do on a 701 00:59:12.719 --> 00:59:17.199 on a on a regular helicopter. Well, I don't know if it's if 702 00:59:17.199 --> 00:59:23.039 it's a Moore's law curve, or not. But the battery technology advances, 703 00:59:23.159 --> 00:59:25.599 you know, where is that going to be in five or ten years? 704 00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:30.719 What what range did that give you with it with a payload. It's a 705 00:59:30.800 --> 00:59:37.000 very very interesting concept. I know big navy ships are going towards as electric 706 00:59:37.079 --> 00:59:40.360 drive. So I guess you're you're charging station for your drones would be in 707 00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:50.679 the hangar bay somewhere. Yeah, undoubtedly, or just make theever bye. 708 00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.639 By the way, this is another hour. I just realized we've already used 709 00:59:53.719 --> 00:59:58.559 up our hour. But I don't know if you've heard it as well, 710 00:59:58.599 --> 01:00:04.239 but man, I gotta a lot of people who are talking about we need 711 01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:08.079 to have nuclear powered warships. Again, that was part of the problem that 712 01:00:08.159 --> 01:00:14.440 CGX blew up and somebody said, we're gonna make this nuclear powered. That 713 01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:16.920 that's a lot of money, I think. I think on the Navy side, 714 01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:22.159 I appreciate it. I have affection for nuclear power. It would be 715 01:00:22.199 --> 01:00:28.239 great to have some escorts that could that could follow our nuclear carriers. But 716 01:00:28.519 --> 01:00:34.119 unless you are willing to make the money argument on the hill, I don't 717 01:00:34.119 --> 01:00:37.280 know if that's an effective investment of our time and effort, because it'll blow 718 01:00:37.360 --> 01:00:40.679 up in our face. Yeah, I don't know a lot of these. 719 01:00:42.119 --> 01:00:45.320 You know, now we're looking at smaller reactors, a lot of these uh 720 01:00:46.079 --> 01:00:52.719 you know, they're they're even suggesting neighborhood size reactors now for electricity generation. 721 01:00:52.840 --> 01:00:54.920 And you know, there's I think I think there's an argument be made that 722 01:00:55.079 --> 01:01:00.519 some of the technology that is available as advanced beyond on the uh, the 723 01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:04.800 the And I'm you know, I'm not I'm not a new obviously, so 724 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:10.440 I'm probably just talking through my hat. But but you know, when you're 725 01:01:10.480 --> 01:01:14.679 just boiling water, I can't imagine that. You can't you can't do that 726 01:01:14.719 --> 01:01:22.480 with some simple, simple, uh pocket sized nuclear reactor. Very true, 727 01:01:22.480 --> 01:01:27.159 But hey, I guess we're done for the hour. It did. Did 728 01:01:27.159 --> 01:01:29.840 we have anything we had to talk about? Or should we keep it in 729 01:01:29.920 --> 01:01:34.280 strategic reserve for our next free for all? I think, uh, I 730 01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:39.719 think I've already over extended my knowledge base, so it's time to whip Well. 731 01:01:40.320 --> 01:01:43.760 We will, we will do so, we'll give everybody back the rest 732 01:01:43.800 --> 01:01:46.360 of their day. But as always, everybody, we really appreciate you time 733 01:01:46.599 --> 01:01:51.800 taking time to join us for midrat and until next time, I hope you 734 01:01:51.840 --> 01:02:04.480 have a great Navy day. Cheers, wrote tell me to me waring Patty, 735 01:02:04.679 --> 01:02:10.239 all change like my lonely wants to marry me, and all leave the 736 01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:15.840 plan that be. Can't believe all you'll be to blame my love, my 737 01:02:16.159 --> 01:02:25.519 family to want me silly folding your the name. It's a long way to 738 01:02:25.719 --> 01:02:37.039 Dipperlany. It's a long way. It's a long way to differently, to 739 01:02:37.320 --> 01:02:49.559 the greenest I know go by because heal and well, lest atwell. It's 740 01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:57.800 a long long way to dipper Ram. But my heart b