WEBVTT

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Here's another show you can enjoy in
the True Story FM family of Entertainment podcasts.

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Ever, wonder where the devil got
his horns? How about those clove

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and hoovers? For that pitchforks with
me an angel? No, he was

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a snake. No, he's the
great Red Drag. No, he's the

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beast. He's the Prince of this
world, Prince of Darkness, believes,

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the Prince of dark Good morning,
Star lovelyi'es. One of my names is

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Lester Ryan Clark, and I sometimes
go by Keenan Dias And we're the hosts

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of the brand new podcast The Devil's
Details. What comes to mind when I

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say Lucifer? How about Satan?
What about just the Devil? How did

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the big bad of the Western world
end up with so many faces? Join

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us as we dig up, decipher, and deconstruct the Devil's many forms throughout

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history. Take a guided tour with
Dante through the Nine Circles of Hell,

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or revisit Satan's angsty bad boy years
in Paradise Loss. Learn the ins and

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outs of a Faustian contract easier than
a ten ninety nine, but with a

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hell of a lot more fine.
Prince slither on over to the Devil's Details

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on True Story FM and join us
in the Diabolic discussion Love and His is

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Wah didn't al Pacino play him in
a movie? Sure? There wasn't.

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Robert didn't there one? It was? That was Elizabeth. He go down

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to Georgia and someone Hello, and
welcome to this episode of the superhero e

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Fics Podcast. Friends. You know
that if we're talking about Superman, Jessica

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Plumber is going to be our guest. And I've been talking to Riki,

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who is also a big Superman fan, and he got me to watch My

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Adventures with Superman Animated show that's on
Max. As always, animated, DC

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is really hitting it out of the
park and for once, they've made a

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Superman story that I really like,
and so I wanted to talk about the

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story with both jess and with Riky. So first I'll say to you,

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Jessica, Hello, Welcome, how
you doing. I'm good, Thanks for

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having me back. You know,
I love any excuse to talk about Superman.

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My pleasure, my pleasure, and
as I've just learned, sooner I'll

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be up right now, I just
call you Superman Superman Extraordinaire. Soon I'll

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be able to refer to you as
published Superman author Jessica Plumber with a new

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book coming out May. We'll have
more about that in later episodes. And

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Riki Hayashi Mineral co host Ricky,
how we doing good. I'm excited for

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this because shortly before I started watching
the show, we had been talking about

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Superman just as part of a conversation, and I think I mentioned it would

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be interesting to have the story where
Superman was Asian to kind of reflect on

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the immigrant experience. And then I
started watching this and I was like,

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wait a minute, is Lois on
this show Asian? And it's finally been

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confirmed in season two. It was
kind of hinted at in season one and

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visually the voice actress, etc.
But now it's been confirmed, and it

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got me thinking a lot about Lois
Lane in Superman, which is why I

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wanted to have this episode. So
here we are well is what I really

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think is interesting because part of what
watching this has helped me realize is how

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much my view of Superman changes based
on the relationships he has with those around

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him. And Jessica know that something
you and I have talked about a lot,

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so so Riggi let me just start
by giving you the floor why this

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question as the framework you wanted to
discuss this idea of not does Superman need

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Lois in the story, but as
I understand it, does a Superman story

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need Lois? Why that question?
Well, I started with it because the

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name of the show, it's My
Adventures with Superman, So it's like,

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who is the my and presumably it's
Lois. There's like a smaller chance that's

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Jimmy Olsen in the show, but
I think Lois is supposed to be the

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My. And other Superman TV shows
that I've watched Lois and Clark the New

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Adventures of Superman from back in the
nineties, and then more recently on the

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CW there's Superman and Lois TV show. So by putting her name in the

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title or in this case, making
her the POV character of the title,

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I feel like there's something going on
here with these TV shows where Lois is

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very important, and to me,
it also contrasts with the movies where I

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feel like Lois Lane unfortunately gets downplayed
a lot for Superman. So that that's

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why I want to, you know, and having Jess here as the Superman

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expert to tell us more about all
this, especially in the comics. Like,

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I'm a fan of the character,
but I Superman is probably like my

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third or fourth favorite DC comic character, so I don't know as much about

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him in the comics. Well,
luckily, I had to read eighty six

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years of Superman history and a month
last year for book research, so I'm

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ready. I have so many thoughts
from everything you just said, Riki.

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First of all, like, yes, Lois Is I think she's hugely important

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to the story. Just like to
start to answer the initial question, she

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was in the very first appearance of
Superman. She's right there in action comics

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with him. She's the only character
who has been there from the beginning.

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She is one of the oldest characters. She's older than Batman because he didn't

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show up until the next year.
To this day, is the female character

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with the second longest running comic book
in DC history, after Wonder Woman.

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Like no Catwoman or Batgirl. Nobody
even comes close. Honestly, it was

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Superman's girlfriend Lois Lane, which was
also a best selling title in the sixties,

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outsold Batman. She's a hugely important
character with a huge amount of history.

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But I agree that she is not
always treated that way. And I

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think it's really interesting that you pointed
out the difference between how she's treated in

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television versus movies, because in media
studies, there absolutely is this idea that

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like the big screen and the small
screen are gendered. Like the big screen

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is considered much more of like a
masculine screen, I guess, and it's

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aimed at much more at male audiences
and those four quadrant audiences. And there's

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something sort of quote unquote feminized about
the small screen. It's at home,

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it's domestic, it's you know,
the little woman watches while she vacuums or

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whatever. And I think it's really
interesting that you see the female lead in

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this story. Is You're absolutely right, so much more prominent in television adaptations

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of Superman, going all the way
back to the George Reeves version. Well,

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one of the first things I noticed
is that in granted, Jessica,

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you and I have talked about this
a lot, and I think one of

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the comments you have made that I
really most loved because I think it applies

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to a number of superhero but especially
the Superman lowis Lane dynamic. Is I

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hate the gaslighting of the romantic partner
in order to keep the secret, and

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how sometimes it's played for laughs,
as I think can be done in very

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kind of patronizing, condescending, sexist
ways, for example, or sometimes like

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yeah, because like you're driving her
crazy and it's being played for laughs,

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Aero verse and Wade Wilson's girlfriend,
I'm looking directly at you, Nott,

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Wade Wilson's Barry Allen, thank you. Yeah. The treatment of his partner

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especially, and the fact that in
this fairly early on we get to that

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issue. But A people are telling
Clark directly lying to her is not okay.

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You are doing harm to her,
You harmed to your relationship with her.

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That's not okay. And b figures
it out almost instantly. And the

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for me, Christopher Reeves Superman the
Donner versions was what I grew up with.

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So that's what I think of.
And so one of the defining parts,

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one of the defining ideas of that
relationship is in Superman two where she

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leaps off the bridge to try to
prove that Superman is Superman. In at

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Niagara falls on her honeymoon with Clark, and of course though her memory has

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changed and like all these terrible things
are done, and the fact that they

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recreated that exact scene but made it
much more not she's being a silly little

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woman, but she's an empowered reporter
proving a point. And that Clark immediately

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recognizes that he screwed up. To
me, that that felt like a very

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intentional we're gonna we're gonna put a
flag right here to say, this is

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a different kind of relationship with Lois. So I'm I'm torn on how the

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show handles it. I'll be honest, because yes, like I love that

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she figures it out. I love
that she is not told. She figures

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it out because she is smart and
the thing is Lois. I mean,

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Lois always figures it out, like
Margo Kidder figured it out and then Superman

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uses alien powers to gaslight her,
Like that's what happened. She always figures

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it out. She's not stupid.
He's just messing with her. This Lois

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figures it out. It's the fourth
episode. Like, I was flabbergasted that

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she got it that quickly. I've
screamed when she yells Clark after him.

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I screamed when she jumped off the
roof, because you're right, like that

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is the lowest move it's the go
to move, and I love that she

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did it. It delighted me.
But I don't think that their relationship is

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at all comparable to most other versions
of the characters, and certainly not to

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something like Barryan Iris on The Flash, because Barry and Iris had been friends

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since they were small children. They
were foster siblings, which it's weird that

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they got married, but we've all
agreed that we're going to pretend that didn't

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happen. And he was actively conspiring
with her father and her boyfriend to guesslight

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her and not knowing was actively putting
her in danger, whereas on My Adventures

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at Superman, they've known each other
for two weeks and she is mad that

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he doesn't tell her the deepest secret
that he has that actively endangers him and

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his parents, that he has never
told a single other person in his entire

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life that we know of. Jimmy
doesn't know, and they've been friends for

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at least four years at this point. I mean, Jimmy does know,

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which is the other thing that is
amazing. And I screamed that too,

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because that is the I've always,
in my heart wanted Jimmy to just know,

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and he just never mentions it,
because as long as he doesn't say

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that, he knows he gets two
birthday presents every year. Yeah, I

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wouldn't tell either, But I just
don't think. I don't think Lois and

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Clark's relationship is at the point where
she's entitled to that information. They're not

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dating, they haven't known each other
for very long, and she literally begins

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the relationship by lying to him and
almost getting him fired on his first day

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of work, and she ends the
season by lying to him again by hiding

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the ball of Evil Superman that she
gets from the League of Lois Lanes,

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and she's like, how dared you
lie to me? I hate liars,

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And it's like, girl, that's
all you do. So that's fair,

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that's fair. I love the idea. But for me, I think,

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honestly, I think the problem is
they didn't have enough episodes. I think

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there's a lot of stuff in their
relationship and in all the characters' relationships,

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including their relationship with the community,
that would feel earned if they had twenty

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two episodes, and there were like
twelve months through the week episodes in this

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season, but they don't, and
so it's like, why are you mad?

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You met three days ago. It's
interesting I didn't think of any of

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that. I think because maybe I'm
just I'm so used to the Lois and

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Fark relationship of this is a conversation
happening years into their dynamic, or like

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after they've actively fallen in love or
something like that. But yeah, no,

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it's a good point. Yeah,
And I think the show often does

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a really good job of trading on
like what we know and expect from a

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Superman show, stuff like the relationship
between Lewis and Clark being turned down its

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head by her figuring it out so
early, stuff like the relationship between Clark

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and Jimmy being turned down its head
by Jimmy always knowing. Those things land

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really well because we expect things to
go a certain way, even like the

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gradual reveal of who Alex is is
such a great like tease for the audience

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that's in the know. But then
sometimes it doesn't quite work when the characters

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are like, we know Metropolis better
than anyone, and I'm like, do

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you you haven't been outside? Who
are you talking about? Yeah? The

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Alex thing. I had dismissed it
in season one, and I think early

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on in season two maybe even the
episode where it's revealed to the audience.

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I turned to my wife's Sarah,
and I was like, wait a minute,

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Like, they brought this guy back. His name is Alex, Like,

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oh, come on, But yeah, it's good. I think it's

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good when you have properties like Superman
that have so much history and so many

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characters that we know from all media, and you pepper stuff in in the

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background. Sometimes sometimes it's just a
background characters, like a name drop or

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an Easter egg. But even like
someone as prominent as Lex Luthor to Superman,

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the ability to have him as a
character in season one, and I

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would say for most people to not
realize who that was going to become or

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is I call that a triumph?
Right? Yeah? Absolutely, Like the

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fact that they saved him for so
long, and they're throwing out villains like

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live Wire and the mist as early
villains like the myst isn't even a Superman

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villain, but they're really like throwing
in some you know, C list villains

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in there and taking them seriously,
how dare you live Wire? I would

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call live Wire b list. I'd
say, yeah, I think that's really

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true. And I have a lot
more to say about the relationship with both

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Lois and Jimmy. But Riki to
kind of take it back to your question.

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I think we're talking about the relationship, but the nature of your question

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was more about, like how do
these relationships themselves shape Superman? Say more

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about that, because I think you're
really onto something there in terms of how

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I see Superman least, why the
dichotomy be between you know, we mentioned

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between TV show and movie, right, Like a movie is an hour and

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a half to three hours, let's
just say a couple of hours, and

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if a Superman movie has to have
a certain amount of action in it,

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like that's just a requirement these days. And I think the issue is that

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Lois to Superman is such an important
character for like who he is as Clark

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Kent in a movie, we just
get we just don't have time to have

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as much Clark Kent. So I
think it is you know, we often

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talk about Superman and Clark Kent is
different people quote unquote, and I think

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the issue is that Lois is an
important character for Clark Kent and is less

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important for Superman. I would say
we see that in the Justice League slash

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Justice League Unlimited cartoons where Lois shows
up maybe like twice across five seasons,

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because there isn't that much Clark Kent
on that show. It's mostly Superman because

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it's like so much action oriented.
So for a TV show, whether you

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know it's like a ten episode season
or twenty or whatever, you have to

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have more Clark Kent. You have
to have more of that human interest angle.

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And I think that that's why we
get more prominent Lois on a TV

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show. And that's important because that
if it was just like action action action

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Superman, like I wouldn't I don't
think I would enjoy the show. That's

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you know, you mentioned CW Flash
and frankly like that's one of the reasons

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that show was less interesting because they
relied a little too much on the Flash

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and having an action sequence in every
show, in every episode, and it

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didn't play well because the special effects
budget was not that great. So yeah,

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I I I think for a TV
show like Lois, Lane is absolutely

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important because Clark Kent is more important. That's that's my thesis I would say,

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is that this show has to be
about Clark Kent as much as it

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as it is about Superman. Yeah, I COO signed that one hundred percent.

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I think you're absolutely right. I
would go further and say that the

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correct genre, or at least the
best genre for Superman to be in,

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is a workplace romantic comedy, which
is what Lois and Clark was the nineties

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TV show, which I personally think
was the best adaptation of Superman we've ever

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gotten. Politics of some of the
actors' side side, the show itself is

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great, and I I feel like, again it's part of why TV works

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for Superman is because they don't have
any budget and it's live action, and

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so you kind of you have to
do stuff with Clark because you can't afford

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to do stuff with Superman. And
I think that's good for them. I

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think it forces them to be creative. And obviously animation doesn't have those limitations,

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and I would say that, like
you made the point about Justice League

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and Jou not really having much Lois
or even much Clark, I would go

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one further. Superman the Animated series
has almost no Clark, and Lois is

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used kind of just as a reporter, like that relationship is not very nuanced

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in that show, which I love
Superman the Animated series, but I do

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think that it suffers. One of
the reasons it suffers in comparison to Batman

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the animated series is because it doesn't
dig into the character and his psychology and

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his relationships in the same way that
the Batman TV show did. But Yeah,

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I say workplace, romantic, comedy, and all three of those words

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are really important. It should be
taking place at the Daily Planet, like

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we should see that set a lot. It should be very much revolving around

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his relationship with Lois, and it
should be funny. And my Adventures with

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Superman checks all three of those boxes. Yeah, I think this is really

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true. I think part of what
this is helping me put my finger on

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is that I feel there's a very
big difference between Clark Kent shows and Superman

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shows and part of the questions that
they're asking and that a Clark Kent show,

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which is about Clark Kent who occasionally
moonlights as this Superman persona, is

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mostly about his relationships with other people
and how he's defined by those. A

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Superman show is about the ethics of
being Superman, where I feel like the

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main people he plays off of are
not necessarily Lois and Jimmy. But now

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is Batman or other people who have
different approaches to being like the superhero or

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wonder Woman or you know, whoever
it is, or his his you know,

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his anime is primarily such as like
Brainiac or lex you know, those

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who challenge him in those kind of
ways. And especially for this show,

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I'm interested in Rinki, particularly since
this one you and I have talked about.

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I watched some of these episodes with
Mary, my spouse, and one

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of the first things she said when
she was watching is is this an anime?

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Because for her, at least somewhat
with the animation, but also just

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the style of the way the characters
were relating to each other. It felt

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very much like that. And I
don't say i'd put it as anime necessarily,

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but this felt to me like a
kid's show. Everything was a little

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bit overdone. Everything was a little
bit like painting in broad strokes. Like

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the villains didn't act like I think
an actual villain would act. They acted

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like someone who's trying to tell you
very specifically they were a villain would act.

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And some of like the the funny
moments around Jimmy and stuff like that,

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not in a like I felt as
an adult, like I wasn't it

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felt kind of like something like Avatar
the Last Air, but in that like,

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is it clearly aimed at kids but
done intelligently enough that adults can also

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stortially enjoy it? Does that make
it ka? I'm kind of curious your

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thoughts on that, both on like
it being anime kind of connected but also

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just that general like the kids show
aspect of it. Well, yeah,

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this is the studio I've mentioned several
times. Studio Mirror is the South Korean

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animation studio that makes the that animates
this show, and I mentioned them.

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They did The X Men ninety seven
Voltron Defender of the Universe, and so

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their style is, you know,
more anime than a lot of American cartoons.

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Of course, this is an American
cartoon. But I'm saying, like,

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you know the other stuff we watch
and I think you know the writing

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as well, what what the the
the romantic workplace comedy thing like really hit

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an nerve in the right way for
me, because I agree, and that's

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that is a thing like for me
Like anime. Yeah, I love the

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Mecca anime, but I also love
like sports anime, and you got to

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have like these relationships kind of on
the side of the sports action. So

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that's how I view this is like, yes, like we're gonna have the

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Superman action. He's gonna have you
know, super Villain to fight probably every

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episode or every other episode, but
gosh darn it, like the human aspect

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of it is so important. So
what was your other question, Matthew,

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I talked about Studio Mirror. Oh
no, I I yeah, I think

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I think you've kind of really addressed
a lot of what I was getting at

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there. I will also point out
that the first time Clark puts on the

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super Suit, he has a magical
girl transformation and it made me so happy,

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Like I was so delighted by his
Yeah, and I don't know who's

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who's making those decisions, right,
Like is that the animators at Studio Mirror,

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Like do the writers who write the
script like give some notes on how

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they want something to be animated?
Because a similar thing the opening credits is

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so anime to me, like the
use of the song and like the way

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that it cuts so quickly, like
it just I don't know, it really

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appeals to me in that regard.
Yeah, Mary, I think I'm remembering.

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Mary actually said specifically that it was
the opening credits especially that we're like,

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oh, so this is like Americans
anime. Yeah. Absolutely, I'd

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be interested to know like where it's
storyboarded, if it's storyboarded here in the

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States, or if it's done,
because I think that would answer a lot

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of questions of those questions of like
who makes that decision? Mm hmmm.

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I'll also say, and I wonder
how many people have the same experience,

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because I'm about to talk of how
this show is influenced for me by a

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very very different show that has a
very different age relationship of who should be

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00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:14.759
watching it. Have either of you
seen The Boys? No? I okay,

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I don't want to say refuse,
but I will not voluntarily watch that

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show. Yeah, everybody, It
is not for everybody by any means.

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It's probably my favorite superhero show out
right now, which says a lot about

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it. I believe. I believe
that. Yeah. Well, here's like

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my understanding is that it is a
very well made show, like well written,

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acted, et cetera. So like, I'm not criticizing the show or

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people who like it. It's definitely
not my taste. It is a very

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well is a very well made version
of a very particular kind of dish that

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not everyone loves. But the reason
I'm bringing it up is to give a

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00:24:52.680 --> 00:24:56.400
very basic idea of the show.
Most of it's about these very cynical,

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very powerful people and this one very
nebishy guy who is powerless compared to everybody

313
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and always scared all the time,
but also incredibly idealistic and always wants to

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see the better of things even though
everyone around him is so cynical. And

315
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:22.640
that character is played by Jack Quaid, who's the voice actor who plays and

316
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so I have to imagine that for
me at least, that influenced a lot,

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because you know, most of the
time Superman is being played by people

318
00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:40.279
who have, you know, the
lantern jaw and the confidence that goes with

319
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that, and I've always sort of
felt like and maybe some of the other

320
00:25:45.119 --> 00:25:51.319
versions I would not feel quite as
much like watching Christopher Reeve try to be

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00:25:51.400 --> 00:25:56.559
awkward like he was decent at it, but it still looks like an NFL

322
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linebacker who people would be throwing themselves
at under any circumstances. Glasses are no

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glasses, and let alone Henry cavill
I think Jessica he once described him as

324
00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:12.039
like just the word handsome, embodiment
in human flesh. He looks like drawing

325
00:26:12.079 --> 00:26:18.279
of Superman. Yeah, Like the
idea of these people being as socially awkward

326
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as Clark is supposed to be always
felt off to me in some way.

327
00:26:23.559 --> 00:26:27.640
Jack Quwaide's voice I sew as I
think a I associate with that kind of

328
00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:30.680
character, but also I just think
his voice is perfect for that kind of

329
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character, in part because I mean, he's maybe like one hundred and forty

330
00:26:33.920 --> 00:26:37.960
pounds soaking wet, like the man
is not the Superman build, and I

331
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:42.920
think hasn't lived the Superman life because
of it. Like he is just the

332
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:47.319
perfect actor for me, and I
think make me feel like Clark Kent is

333
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:53.519
a much more relatable character than I
normally ever would. So I disagree about

334
00:26:53.559 --> 00:27:00.920
Christopher Reeve. And I think back
to there's a clip that often goes around

335
00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:07.000
and goes semi viral every year or
so where I think it's since Superman two,

336
00:27:07.759 --> 00:27:14.039
where he or Clark is about to
tell Lois his secrets Superman. Oh

337
00:27:14.079 --> 00:27:19.079
that's in one, okay, Yeah, and he takes off his glasses and

338
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:25.920
his posture changes, his voice changes, and he's talking as Superman, saying

339
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.480
Lois I have something to say,
and then he changes his mind or something,

340
00:27:29.759 --> 00:27:32.880
puts the glasses back on, shrinks
back down, and then turns back

341
00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:37.119
into Clark again, like, oh, I'm coming lois that his acting is

342
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:40.359
so good in that, Like he
is two different people right there, two

343
00:27:40.359 --> 00:27:45.559
different characters. So I I understand
what you mean about the size of a

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00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:48.079
person, Like you can't really get
around that, like to have the same

345
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:53.960
person play both characters. But I
think Christopher Reeve did credit to the dual

346
00:27:55.039 --> 00:28:00.599
nature and transformation personally, that's possible. As I've mentioned before in the Building

347
00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:03.240
with a Man, so I saw
him in person at three years old,

348
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so he was a literal giant,
which made him a man in the world,

349
00:28:07.079 --> 00:28:08.240
and my daddy sued him, which
I had a lot of fun with

350
00:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.559
the nursery school. But that's a
whole other story. But anyway, Jessica,

351
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:18.680
you were gonna say, oh,
yeah, I think the versions that

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00:28:18.799 --> 00:28:22.599
handle that, Like, first of
all, I am very much in the

353
00:28:22.599 --> 00:28:27.720
family of or in the camp of
That's just how Superman works, Like he

354
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:33.559
puts on glasses and everybody's schooled and
we're just gonna have to believe, like

355
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:38.440
that's just And also he can fly, like it's just part of the baked

356
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:41.759
into the concept of Superman, and
like you know, pictures will go around

357
00:28:41.759 --> 00:28:45.799
of like Zoe Daschanel with her bangs
pushback, and it's like, I've never

358
00:28:45.799 --> 00:28:48.680
seen that woman in my life.
So really like he's just seeing someone a

359
00:28:48.720 --> 00:28:55.720
certain way. Yeah, we can
be fooled, Like I do think it's

360
00:28:55.720 --> 00:29:00.839
as plausible as anything else, But
I also think that the best takes on

361
00:29:00.920 --> 00:29:06.359
Superman are the ones that acknowledge that
he is actually like this big beefy,

362
00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:10.720
Like this is a huge slab of
Kansas beef who's also really nice and polite.

363
00:29:10.759 --> 00:29:14.400
He just happens to like wear a
suit jacket that's a little too big

364
00:29:14.440 --> 00:29:19.279
and he kind of hunches, and
maybe he's a little clumsy, and like

365
00:29:19.359 --> 00:29:25.359
I'm thinking of in the in the
stage musical It's a Bird, It's a

366
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:27.359
plane, It's Superman, which is
a huge flop and it's terrible. Like

367
00:29:27.400 --> 00:29:32.720
I'm not saying that's a good adaptation, but there's literally a whole makeover song

368
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:37.880
in which the female character who's not
Lois is like it's called You've Got Possibilities,

369
00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:41.519
and she's basically like, look at
you. This the problem is not

370
00:29:41.680 --> 00:29:45.240
you. The problem is how you
present yourself. Oh cute, which of

371
00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:49.079
course he's doing on purpose, but
like it's an acknowledgement that, yeah,

372
00:29:49.119 --> 00:29:53.359
he can have the same body and
then just like radiate out, yeah,

373
00:29:53.519 --> 00:29:57.920
a different persona. So she does
the she's all that to him, and

374
00:29:57.960 --> 00:30:02.599
like if you just take off your
glasses, Yes, it's great. I

375
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:07.440
mean it's terrible, it's also great
and watching and maybe and I'd love to

376
00:30:07.480 --> 00:30:15.839
hear more of the thought process because
my guess is that in previous animated Superman's

377
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:19.880
they have found a voice actor who
is who can play Superman. And it

378
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:25.279
felt like to me, like I
don't think anyone would have ever associated Jack

379
00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:30.519
Quaid with Superman before this show,
but I think associating Jack Quaid with Clark

380
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.319
Kent makes perfect sense. Like that's
kind of what I'm saying. It feels

381
00:30:33.359 --> 00:30:37.799
he feels like a character who fits
Clark Kent perfectly. And they can also

382
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:45.279
pull off Superman in a way that
like Henry cavill is Superman and Christah Reeve

383
00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.359
and like, yeah, and maybe
they are good enough actors to pull off

384
00:30:47.400 --> 00:30:49.200
the other side as well, but
quaite at least for me, And and

385
00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:52.440
again maybe it's just because I associate
them so much with some of his other

386
00:30:52.519 --> 00:30:56.079
characters, but he just to me
is much more Clark Kent forward. Yeah,

387
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:59.640
I mean, we kind of don't
know if Henry Cavill could pull off

388
00:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.880
Clark Kent because he was only Clark
for like thirty seconds in those movies,

389
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.000
and twenty seven of those seconds involved
him getting into a bathtub with a shoes

390
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:11.759
on, So it's all just like
ten that didn't happen. It's interesting that

391
00:31:11.799 --> 00:31:17.720
you're talking about specifically like voice actors
and how they play Superman and Clark Kent

392
00:31:17.839 --> 00:31:26.640
because this goes all the way back
to the forties and the Superman Radio Show

393
00:31:26.079 --> 00:31:30.359
and Bud Collier, who voiced Superman
on the radio show, which ran for

394
00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.799
like over a decade. It was
hugely successful and had hundreds of episodes,

395
00:31:33.200 --> 00:31:38.400
but it was his idea to drop
his voice an octave when he switched between

396
00:31:40.440 --> 00:31:42.480
Clark and Superman. And you can
literally hear him do it in every single

397
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:45.880
episode because something will happen and he'll
go, this looks like a job for

398
00:31:47.200 --> 00:31:52.319
Superman, and it's it's incredible to
hear because you're like, oh, that's

399
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.240
oh, he did it, like
it to hear that transformation. You can

400
00:31:56.319 --> 00:32:00.920
really you can see it, you
feel it, and it's informed literally every

401
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:07.240
Superman performance since. But it started
on the radio. Yeah, And I

402
00:32:07.279 --> 00:32:13.480
feel like they haven't really gotten there
on this show yet because he starts the

403
00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:19.680
show as just Clark Kent and kind
of is in the process of developing Superman,

404
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:22.559
like in front of our eyes.
So I think he might have even

405
00:32:22.599 --> 00:32:29.000
had that weird awkward like has to
like whoa like what goes way down intentionally

406
00:32:29.119 --> 00:32:34.440
like when he's when he's discovered,
So he's not quite there. I think

407
00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:39.880
we'll see more of that, perhaps
of him like deliberately changing mm. Yeah,

408
00:32:39.920 --> 00:32:44.119
definitely. And that's one thing that
I think is really interesting about this

409
00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:47.359
show, and that I really like
the characters are so young, Like they

410
00:32:47.359 --> 00:32:52.720
are so young. This is younger, I mean twenty, Yeah, they're

411
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:58.200
Lois says she's twenty three and is
the first job out of college territory.

412
00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:00.759
It's there, yeah, and she's
been there for a year, so she

413
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.559
might be a year older than Clark
and Jimmy are. It's also the first

414
00:33:04.559 --> 00:33:08.759
time that Jimmy is the same age
as Clark and Lois, so Jimmy is

415
00:33:08.799 --> 00:33:13.319
really that Jimmy is actually the age
we usually see him at. But Clark

416
00:33:13.359 --> 00:33:15.680
and Lois are so much younger than
we normally see them. Like even in

417
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:21.000
the Superman movie the Christopher Reeboe,
he's thirty. He's canonically thirty in that

418
00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:23.759
movie because he's eighteen when he goes
to the Fortress of Solitude and then he's

419
00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:30.799
just hanging out there listening to Jorrel
for twelve years, eating a lot of

420
00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:32.400
polar bears. I think, like, there's not much protein up there,

421
00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:37.359
but who knows. Maybe those are
the last years where he goes to college

422
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:38.839
and he dates a mermaid, which
is what happens in the comics. But

423
00:33:38.920 --> 00:33:45.359
like in every other take, right, who doesn't date a mermaid in college?

424
00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:47.559
In every other take, you have
a Clark who's like he does.

425
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:51.759
He has like a gap year.
He travels the world, he learns how

426
00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:55.960
to do what he does. He
doesn't have any of that experience. Lois

427
00:33:57.000 --> 00:34:02.960
doesn't have any journalistic experience what's soever. And it can sometimes be like sometimes

428
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:07.119
I want to smack all of them
and be like, go make copies and

429
00:34:07.160 --> 00:34:12.840
get coffee. You were interns.
Stop it when they go to that party

430
00:34:13.679 --> 00:34:16.440
and they're asking questions of all these
rich socialites. Oh my god. Oh

431
00:34:16.559 --> 00:34:22.159
no. I will say, just
from that perspective, one of my favorite

432
00:34:22.199 --> 00:34:25.320
comedic beats, because again, they
could have oversold it but they didn't,

433
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.760
is when Jimmy now has his interns
because of the Firebird project and he complains

434
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:35.599
to Perry about it, and like, I have never seen dead pan and

435
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:40.199
animation done quite so well, but
they animated the perfect dead pan face,

436
00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.719
and I was like, yep,
that's that's it. It's so good.

437
00:34:45.840 --> 00:34:47.360
But it also goes back to what
you were saying that, like this show,

438
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:52.079
I'm not exactly sure who the audience
is, but like they literally have

439
00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:55.320
four to ten year olds. I'm
sorry, Flips eleven, but children like

440
00:34:55.400 --> 00:35:00.880
working at the paper were supposed to
take it pretty seriously. So I think,

441
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:06.239
yeah, it's a kid friendly show
for sure. But going back to

442
00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:08.280
the idea of Clark and Lewis being
so young, I think it also like

443
00:35:08.320 --> 00:35:13.079
it's something that I try to remember
when I'm like frustrated with them. It's

444
00:35:13.079 --> 00:35:16.360
like they don't know what they're doing. Their children give them time, like

445
00:35:17.199 --> 00:35:24.920
right. I feel like Lois in
particular, like her she's she's kind of

446
00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.519
a maniac. She's always a maniac, but she's kind of earned it in

447
00:35:30.719 --> 00:35:32.960
most of the time when we see
her, she's like, it's like,

448
00:35:34.039 --> 00:35:37.239
well, okay, being completely unhinged
has gotten you several pulletzers, so go

449
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:42.320
with God. And she's not there
yet. And so when she does like

450
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.239
bonker stuff and it's like what what
are you? What are you? What

451
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.639
are you doing? Well, I
guess it's going to get you a pulletzer

452
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:53.920
someday, Like she hasn't she hasn't
ripened, you know. Yeah, Like

453
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:58.559
when I think about the Christopher Reeve
movies, and I think this is a

454
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.039
little bit in some of the other
versions, but especially in like Margot Kidder

455
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:06.599
Lois Lane. To me, you
could put her into a Hallmark Christmas movie

456
00:36:07.039 --> 00:36:10.679
as the career driven city girl who
needs a guy in a plaid hat to

457
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.840
teach her the true meaning of Christmas
and it would be a perfect fit.

458
00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:21.360
Like that's exactly the dynamic she has, where where Chris Reeve Clark Kent Superman

459
00:36:21.440 --> 00:36:23.440
is the one helping her to like, you know, maybe you can like

460
00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:27.599
open up to people more. I'm
very much the Hallmark Christmas movie dynamic.

461
00:36:29.519 --> 00:36:32.519
I want to say more about her
his relationship with Lois Lane, but real

462
00:36:32.599 --> 00:36:37.760
quick on the Hallmark thing. It's
funny that you said that, because I

463
00:36:37.800 --> 00:36:39.719
have actually seen a post on social
media where somebody was like, I want

464
00:36:39.719 --> 00:36:45.280
a reverse Hallmark movie where the corn
fed boy next door moves to the city

465
00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.239
and falls for a like fast talking, career driven, like driven career woman,

466
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:53.960
and somebody else is like Superman like
it is a reverse Hallmark movie,

467
00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:55.760
and I was like, oh,
that's why I like it so much,

468
00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:01.360
because I am pro city and anti
leaving it. Ever anyway, sorry,

469
00:37:01.400 --> 00:37:06.719
go ahead, as I look at
up my suburban wasteland, I understand.

470
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:10.559
But though it turns out I like, you know space. But let me

471
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:14.840
talk about his relationship with Jimmy somewhat, because you're right, it always feels

472
00:37:14.840 --> 00:37:16.960
in a lot of the things I've
seen of you know, him and Lois

473
00:37:16.960 --> 00:37:22.760
are contemporaries of each other. She
has much Clark and Lowess are contemporaries.

474
00:37:22.800 --> 00:37:25.039
She has much more journalistic experience,
so she's kind of his boss and kind

475
00:37:25.039 --> 00:37:28.880
of pushing him around, and that
helps feed some the awkwardness. But then

476
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:31.079
Jimmy is like this kid who they've
kind of adopted, who hangs around with

477
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:32.880
him a lot. I mean,
he's twenty one, he's an adult,

478
00:37:32.960 --> 00:37:37.480
but like you know, oh yes, mister you know missus Lowis and stuff

479
00:37:37.519 --> 00:37:43.320
like that. Well, exactly,
maybe it's really unclear. That's fair.

480
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:46.920
That's fair here though, like I
already pushed back a bit even on what

481
00:37:46.960 --> 00:37:52.039
you said, Riki, I think
it's intentional that My Adventures of the Superman

482
00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:55.440
could be Jimmy just as much as
it is Lois, because we've had episodes

483
00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.239
that are about like where Jimmy was
kind of jealous of you know, you

484
00:38:00.280 --> 00:38:02.079
and I have this relationship that goes
all the way back to college. Like

485
00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.639
it. There's kind of a trope
recently of like the guy, his best

486
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.800
friend and his girl and the three
of them form, like, you know,

487
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:13.039
the Scooby Gang. And that's what
this very much feels to me,

488
00:38:13.079 --> 00:38:16.320
and that for Clark, the two
relationships are very equal for him, and

489
00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:21.599
that they're they're both dealing with their
complexities and their problems and stuff like that,

490
00:38:21.679 --> 00:38:25.119
and we're seeing a whole new set
of them now with what role in

491
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:29.719
season two that we'll get into a
different conversation. But what do you guys

492
00:38:29.719 --> 00:38:32.599
think of his relationship with Jimmy because
it feels to me like again making them

493
00:38:32.639 --> 00:38:36.760
equals and making them like not even
that they meet at the Planet, but

494
00:38:36.800 --> 00:38:38.559
they were like, you know,
college roommates and maybe even like friends from

495
00:38:38.559 --> 00:38:43.840
earlier. That again, it really
helps to humanize Clark Kent in a way

496
00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:47.920
that we don't normally get. Yeah, I mean, I love it.

497
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:54.719
Jimmy has always felt a little underutilized. I think in the you know again,

498
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:58.920
we're like, if we talk about
movies, they're often like, isn't

499
00:38:58.960 --> 00:39:01.960
a Jimmy character or there's just a
cameo like in one scene with Harry.

500
00:39:02.800 --> 00:39:12.440
So having Jimmy Olsen be a fully
formed character is I think secondarily important to

501
00:39:13.079 --> 00:39:19.320
having Lois here. And as Yeah, as for the contemporary like same age

502
00:39:19.360 --> 00:39:24.480
thing, I dig that we do
have kind of like younger Jimmy stand ins

503
00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:30.440
in the what were they called again, the Newskid Legion? Yeah, yeah,

504
00:39:30.199 --> 00:39:34.719
have we ever seen have we ever
seen the Metropolis version of the Baker

505
00:39:34.760 --> 00:39:37.599
Street Regulars, Because that's what very
much felt like to me. Have you

506
00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:40.760
seen those comics? Oh yeah,
they're there. They go back to the

507
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:45.079
forties. I mean, I can
I can definitely gush about the news Kid

508
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.199
Legion because I'm so thrilled that they're
in the show. But I do want

509
00:39:47.239 --> 00:39:52.039
to talk about Jimmy, but I
don't want to cut you off. No

510
00:39:52.280 --> 00:39:54.039
good, I'm good, sorry,
Yeah, no, I I mean,

511
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:58.960
I'm We're still on the same wave
length. I absolutely agree. Like Jimmy

512
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:04.400
has been underutilized that you're right,
Like he shows up for a cameo in

513
00:40:04.519 --> 00:40:07.360
every movie and then Perry goes,
don't call me chief, and that's it.

514
00:40:07.400 --> 00:40:12.719
That's what he does. Sometimes he
has a bigger role in a TV

515
00:40:12.840 --> 00:40:20.719
show, but not always, and
sometimes agent. Sometimes he is a CIA

516
00:40:20.800 --> 00:40:25.320
agent, like what Sometimes we have
whatever the hell happened in Smallville with him?

517
00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:31.239
Like who even knows when he is. He's been a linkchin of the

518
00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:38.199
Superman universe since well so originally he
shows up as like a copy boy for

519
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:42.079
like one issue in the forties,
we don't see him for a million years.

520
00:40:42.119 --> 00:40:45.559
He really became a major character in
the radio show, and it took

521
00:40:45.599 --> 00:40:49.639
him a while to sort of establish
that presence in comics. But he also

522
00:40:49.719 --> 00:40:52.840
had his own long running comic book, Superman's Pal Jimmy Olsen, and was

523
00:40:52.880 --> 00:41:01.840
like a huge character for the fifties
sixties, seventies and adaptations, like modern

524
00:41:01.880 --> 00:41:07.280
adaptations don't seem to know what to
do with him. And I think that

525
00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:12.760
the show like boiling it down to
he is Clark's best friend instead of like

526
00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:16.639
he has to be sort of this
junior cadet character, but he is Clark's

527
00:41:16.679 --> 00:41:21.920
best friend. Clark needs a best
friend. Was really smart. I think

528
00:41:21.960 --> 00:41:24.960
this is the best Jimmy we've ever
gotten, Like, there's no comparison,

529
00:41:25.360 --> 00:41:29.880
by far, the best Jimmy we've
ever gotten in any adaptation. He is,

530
00:41:30.639 --> 00:41:34.480
like you said, a completely fully
realized character. He is the funniest

531
00:41:34.559 --> 00:41:36.800
character on the show. He has
all the best lines, he's all the

532
00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:42.639
best gags, but he's also like
a three dimensional human being. There's this

533
00:41:42.719 --> 00:41:45.800
moment. I know we're mostly focusing
on season one here, but there's a

534
00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:51.440
moment with him and Clark in season
two where they're like in that they're at

535
00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:54.719
a Star Labs presentation and they're in
this anti gravity pod and they're like floating

536
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:01.280
around and Clark tells Jimmy. He
gives them a little speech of like you

537
00:42:01.440 --> 00:42:05.880
saved me by like the first day
we met, because you treated me like

538
00:42:05.920 --> 00:42:08.199
I was normal and you were my
friend and you accepted me and you always

539
00:42:08.239 --> 00:42:15.159
have which like guys, I tear
it up, like, yeah, that

540
00:42:15.239 --> 00:42:19.159
was really ud. I just love
each other so much. Yeah, And

541
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:25.639
honestly, after growing up seeing years
and years of men only like relate to

542
00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.519
each other by punching each other in
the nuts and telling jokes about each other,

543
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:36.440
but with your girlfriend you can actually
have vulnerability. Like we're about like

544
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:38.760
five or ten years into this becoming
a lot more normal, but still every

545
00:42:38.760 --> 00:42:44.159
time I see a male character have
a male best friend and they have genuine

546
00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.679
emotions and genuine emotional problems with each
other and work through it because their friendship

547
00:42:47.760 --> 00:42:52.559
matters, I love it. It's
so powerful. Yeah, Like they talk

548
00:42:52.679 --> 00:42:55.599
to each other, they confide in
each other, they hug, and I

549
00:42:55.639 --> 00:42:59.800
know we already talked about it,
but the moment where Jenny's like, oh,

550
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:02.880
so about how youres Superman and Clerk's
like, wait, what why didn't

551
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:07.760
you say anything? Jimmy's like it
seemed like something you were sensitive about.

552
00:43:08.599 --> 00:43:13.360
So good, so good, so
good, and and I'm glad he got

553
00:43:13.400 --> 00:43:20.079
that moment, yes, like he
he deserves it after his decades of just

554
00:43:20.119 --> 00:43:22.719
being yelled at by Perry and not
doing anything else. And adaptations, and

555
00:43:22.840 --> 00:43:29.519
like the episode he's kidnapped by Monsieur
Mala and the Brain and they're like yeah,

556
00:43:29.519 --> 00:43:34.119
and so appreciate you enough. Like
absolutely every Jimmy plotline, the episode

557
00:43:34.119 --> 00:43:37.239
where he's just hanging out with Steve
Lombard and he's like, I am not

558
00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:39.599
the Steve of the group. They're
all choice, Like they're all so bad.

559
00:43:39.639 --> 00:43:43.719
Yeah, I mean just the like, there's a lot I don't like

560
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.920
about season two that's gonna be a
whole other episode, but just the running

561
00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:51.280
ticker of how he is spending his
money is both so depressing and so relatable

562
00:43:51.320 --> 00:43:57.519
and so lovable. I will push
back just a bit that I think this

563
00:43:57.599 --> 00:44:02.719
is the best Jimmy Olson we've ever
gotten in a Superman focused story. Oh,

564
00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:07.280
Nick codd Brooks in Supergirl. It
is possible that because in my mind

565
00:44:07.280 --> 00:44:10.480
at least, he is the same
like definition of handsome that Henry cavill is,

566
00:44:10.519 --> 00:44:14.000
and I'll watch him on screen and
anything. But I also just love

567
00:44:14.039 --> 00:44:17.320
his characters so much. But yees
putting that aside, ASTERIX totally with you,

568
00:44:17.360 --> 00:44:20.599
this is the best Jimmy we've gotten. Well, don't call him Jimmy,

569
00:44:20.679 --> 00:44:22.960
call him James James. Well,
yeah, that's James. It's different

570
00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:27.760
gods. Okay, that's fair,
that's fair. That's fair. Jimmy is

571
00:44:27.800 --> 00:44:30.239
really fun. James also is a
smoke show. But we can move on.

572
00:44:30.719 --> 00:44:36.360
I know. I think the actor
is wonderful. I think that the

573
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:43.280
character started out strong and then they
veered away from like they decentered him in

574
00:44:43.320 --> 00:44:45.039
a way that I found very frustrating, and I stopped watching the show because

575
00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:50.760
in part because of that. I
was going to say, it started really

576
00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.360
good, but then is the definition
of pretty much everything about the Arrow verse

577
00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:58.119
lit on that show. But again, an actual point for a while,

578
00:44:58.199 --> 00:45:04.559
so go ahead. What I think
is very important with Jimmy, especially on

579
00:45:04.599 --> 00:45:08.239
this show, is his job or
his hobby, like whichever you want to

580
00:45:08.280 --> 00:45:15.679
call it. Because traditionally Jimmy Olsen
has just been like an Aaron boy for

581
00:45:15.719 --> 00:45:21.960
Perry. He's been a photographer,
right and in a lot of like the

582
00:45:22.000 --> 00:45:28.559
eighties, nineties stuff, and now
like in this one, he is an

583
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:31.280
intern slash Aaron boy. But like
the important part of his character is that

584
00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.800
he's a podcaster and that's what gets
in the enormous wealth and he becomes like

585
00:45:36.920 --> 00:45:42.880
the head of as all podcasters have
is he becomes ahead of like the Daily

586
00:45:43.000 --> 00:45:46.440
Planet's audio division or something like that. It's more a YouTube creator than a

587
00:45:46.480 --> 00:45:52.880
podcast. But that, like photographer
Jimmy has played out, I feel like,

588
00:45:53.239 --> 00:45:58.039
especially because like are there still photographers, Yes, there are, but

589
00:45:58.119 --> 00:46:01.199
I feel like a lot of reporters
probably take their own pictures because of smartphones

590
00:46:01.239 --> 00:46:07.159
too, Right, So I feel
like this traditional Jimmy Olsen photographer kind of

591
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:13.440
had to go away, and this
replacement works for me, And and like

592
00:46:13.559 --> 00:46:19.400
this is the way characters and properties
like this have to evolve with the times.

593
00:46:19.440 --> 00:46:22.320
You know, like Matthew and I
have talked about what do you do

594
00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:28.800
with Magneto when you know the Holocaust
is one hundred years ago at a certain

595
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.679
point, Like the stories and the
characters have to evolve to fit whatever is

596
00:46:32.920 --> 00:46:40.199
like more relevant or plausible within your
timeline and technology in this case, Yeah,

597
00:46:40.639 --> 00:46:45.880
no, absolutely, It's it's just
like how I've always wanted Jimmy to

598
00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:49.360
just have known for a long time
that Clark was Superman. I've been saying,

599
00:46:49.400 --> 00:46:54.000
like he should be like at the
forefront of whatever the Daily Planet's social

600
00:46:54.039 --> 00:46:59.199
media presence is, Like he is
that guy that Perry's like, I don't

601
00:46:59.320 --> 00:47:06.119
understand you do it, and he
does because Jimmy is a ridiculous human being

602
00:47:06.119 --> 00:47:09.519
and always has been. But he
is also very tapped into metropolis, and

603
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:15.800
he's very tapped into what is what
is trendy and what is like vital and

604
00:47:15.880 --> 00:47:20.519
vibrant and interesting to people, And
that's absolutely something. I mean, he's

605
00:47:20.559 --> 00:47:25.320
also conspiracy theorist, or is he
Like he was right about aliens and a

606
00:47:25.320 --> 00:47:30.199
lot of the stuff that they have
in saying are easter eggs. He's like,

607
00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:35.039
oh, there's mermaids. Yeah,
there are clerk dated one in college,

608
00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.800
Like, he's right, you guys, everything he says is right.

609
00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:40.119
Oh, I'm convinced they're going to
find the sasquatch that he wanted to go

610
00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:44.719
on that camping trip, but quere
his friends very rudely, I will say,

611
00:47:44.760 --> 00:47:47.480
ditched himself. Ru. Yeah,
he is right about Task Force X,

612
00:47:47.559 --> 00:47:52.400
like he's right to me. The
one thing about that that throws me

613
00:47:52.440 --> 00:47:55.599
a bit is because you're I think
they've done a good job updating the show,

614
00:47:57.880 --> 00:48:00.960
but also one of the core conceits
of the show seems to be because

615
00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:04.280
I think this was very true in
the forties and fifties and for a lot

616
00:48:04.320 --> 00:48:07.000
of history, this is what we
believed, is that the media is fundamentally

617
00:48:07.039 --> 00:48:13.800
good and a fundamentally a good institution. Here i'm talking about like media can

618
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:17.119
refer to like any video audio project. I'm talking here specificly about like the

619
00:48:17.199 --> 00:48:22.760
reporter's news. That's a perspective that
a lot of people on both sides of

620
00:48:22.760 --> 00:48:29.039
the aisle have very very different views
on today, and I appreciate that they're

621
00:48:29.079 --> 00:48:31.920
doing a little bit about the cynicism
of some of it. Vicky Vale outside

622
00:48:31.920 --> 00:48:35.920
of a Batman property just feels entirely
wrong to me, but that might be

623
00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.599
just my own biases. And they
have Steve as kind of like the egotistical

624
00:48:39.639 --> 00:48:44.039
reporter, and like I like Perry, so I don't want it to be

625
00:48:44.039 --> 00:48:46.320
from him. But at some point, probably maybe in a later season or

626
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:50.599
something like that, or in just
a different show, I would like to

627
00:48:50.599 --> 00:48:53.920
see more of the like where it's
not just I don't believe you, so

628
00:48:53.920 --> 00:48:58.599
I'm not going to publish a story, but our corporate masters have, you

629
00:48:58.639 --> 00:49:01.280
know, what they want the media
to say that and what you Lois or

630
00:49:01.280 --> 00:49:06.599
Superman is right, our clerk writing
doesn't quite fit that. Like I I

631
00:49:06.639 --> 00:49:10.039
don't want everything to reflect the modern
day. But like the image of them,

632
00:49:10.119 --> 00:49:14.239
of the newspaper media that this show
is presenting is the one part about

633
00:49:14.280 --> 00:49:15.480
it that still feels very dated to
me. Is maybe the best part way

634
00:49:15.519 --> 00:49:24.800
to say that, Yeah, because
who reads a newspaper? I mean what

635
00:49:24.840 --> 00:49:29.039
you're saying. But I think,
like that's why the Jimmy angle is important,

636
00:49:29.119 --> 00:49:35.800
that they're breaking into new media right
online. It is audience right,

637
00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:42.400
like he's doing I Steve does videos, yeah, yeah, yeah, likely

638
00:49:42.559 --> 00:49:46.360
filming stuff yeah okay, yeah.
Like I don't think there should ever be

639
00:49:46.360 --> 00:49:51.880
a stop the presses moment in this
because like it's it's just unclicking. I

640
00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.360
think they should, like somebody should, like Lois should run in and say

641
00:49:54.400 --> 00:50:01.199
stop the presses, and Perry's like, what, it's been online for twenty

642
00:50:01.239 --> 00:50:07.039
minutes. Who cares what we print? Yeah, that's fair, that's fair.

643
00:50:07.639 --> 00:50:09.400
So I think it's a couple of
other things we're going to follow up

644
00:50:09.400 --> 00:50:13.159
with in our members only section.
I just want to say a quick word

645
00:50:13.199 --> 00:50:15.559
about representation and I know, oh
good, did we want to talk about

646
00:50:15.559 --> 00:50:20.079
the news kid legion? Yes,
go for it, go for it.

647
00:50:20.800 --> 00:50:23.599
So well, this is this is
actually a good segue because the news Kid

648
00:50:23.719 --> 00:50:30.519
Legion originally in the comics was the
Newsboy Legion, and they've been around since

649
00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:35.639
the forties. They were all white, so they were created by Jack Kirby

650
00:50:35.639 --> 00:50:40.239
and Joe Simon, and they hung
out with a superhero called the Guardian,

651
00:50:42.119 --> 00:50:46.519
who was a square job superhero with
a shield, which may sound familiar because

652
00:50:47.000 --> 00:50:51.559
he was a ripoff of Captain America. But Jack Herby and Joe Simon also

653
00:50:51.599 --> 00:50:54.079
created Captain America, so I guess
it's not really ripping off, it's just

654
00:50:54.119 --> 00:51:02.719
kind of being lazy. And so
the original Newsboys were big words. Who's

655
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:07.920
a smart one we have in the
show, Gabby who loved talk, Scrapper

656
00:51:07.960 --> 00:51:12.960
who loved to fight. That's Patty
in the show. And Tommy, whose

657
00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:17.480
personality was that his name was Tommy, like the most useless character. And

658
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:23.280
then they had like a bunch of
adventures. They're really cute comics like throughout

659
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:27.440
in the early forties. And then
Kirby and Simon went off and fought in

660
00:51:27.480 --> 00:51:30.079
World War Two and the characters kind
of disappeared. And then in the early

661
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:37.079
seventies, Kirby came back to d
C after having created basically the entire Marvel

662
00:51:37.159 --> 00:51:40.000
universe, and he brought back the
Newsboy Legion. But he was like,

663
00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:44.880
well, it's been thirty years.
So actually they all grew up and then

664
00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:49.199
they each had a son who looks
exactly like them and has the same name

665
00:51:49.679 --> 00:51:54.119
and the same nickname, and they
get into hijinks with Jimmy Olsen. But

666
00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:59.000
at that point they added a member
because Kirby came over to DC and he

667
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:01.519
was like, it's looking really white
here, uh, And he created like

668
00:52:01.880 --> 00:52:07.880
half a dozen black characters basically within
a year, and so he added the

669
00:52:08.039 --> 00:52:13.960
new member of the news By Legion's
name is Flip a DipPA f l i

670
00:52:14.079 --> 00:52:17.599
p p A d i Ppa.
This is a white man a diversity,

671
00:52:17.679 --> 00:52:24.239
okay, because he's really into scuba
diving, which so you have the smart

672
00:52:24.239 --> 00:52:28.119
one, the one who talks a
lot, the one who fights a lot,

673
00:52:28.440 --> 00:52:32.360
and the scuba diver, which like
every group needs one, not like

674
00:52:32.480 --> 00:52:37.119
every group needs one, and you
got to give him credit. It's not

675
00:52:37.159 --> 00:52:43.400
a stereotype for anyone anywhere, and
like in that genuinely, like imagine if

676
00:52:43.440 --> 00:52:45.280
you met a ten year old who
was really into scuba diving and like wore

677
00:52:45.280 --> 00:52:52.199
a scuba suit everywhere like that would
actually be so cute, And so they've

678
00:52:52.320 --> 00:52:57.360
been like they're like kind of minor
characters, but they've stuck around in and

679
00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:00.519
out of the DC universe, mostly
in the Superman books, most hanging out

680
00:53:00.519 --> 00:53:06.239
with Jimmy in the ensuing fifty years. And when they popped up on the

681
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:08.000
show, like, I was so
excited to see them, and I love

682
00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:16.119
that three of them have been gender
bent. I think M's agreeing it,

683
00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:21.119
going, yeah, I think all
of them. It seems like I have

684
00:53:21.239 --> 00:53:24.840
been race bent. Like they really
use these characters to add more diversity of

685
00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:30.480
the show. Flip is just called
Flip now, which is an improvement,

686
00:53:30.880 --> 00:53:37.559
and they're adorable, and it's just
like it's such a nice it's a use

687
00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:45.840
of a really deep cut easter egg
that also vastly improves the Superman world that

688
00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:51.719
they've like taken from the comics and
that they actually used to tell stories with

689
00:53:51.760 --> 00:53:58.599
it, so well, the kind
of Superman's story you're going to tell,

690
00:53:59.199 --> 00:54:02.000
whether it's more romantic comedy or it's
more of the DEMI God, I think

691
00:54:02.000 --> 00:54:07.400
I just want to create the Flip
to Snyder scale, you know, like

692
00:54:07.639 --> 00:54:10.840
how much does it say Flip Superman. How much is this is Zack Snyder

693
00:54:10.880 --> 00:54:16.000
Superman with Flip and Snyder being the
two extremes? Yeah, Or like,

694
00:54:17.639 --> 00:54:22.760
if you're going to include a Jack
Kirby character in a character that Jack Kirby

695
00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:29.039
created in nineteen seventy one in your
Superman project, is it going to be

696
00:54:29.119 --> 00:54:31.800
Flip a DipPA or is it going
to be Steppenwolf? And there's a current

697
00:54:31.880 --> 00:54:38.119
answer and it's not Steppenwolf. That's
fair, that's fair. Last things I

698
00:54:38.119 --> 00:54:43.719
wanted to bring up. You mentioned
Breaky briefly, the Korean character lowest Nan

699
00:54:43.800 --> 00:54:45.840
being Korean. I'd love to hear
more about that. Meant to you.

700
00:54:45.400 --> 00:54:49.199
I do want to say for me, like the next episode in season five,

701
00:54:49.239 --> 00:54:52.199
In season two, episode five,
there there's sort of like who's the

702
00:54:52.239 --> 00:55:00.920
most eligible bachelor bachelorette And one of
the characters is just non binary and present,

703
00:55:00.960 --> 00:55:02.800
Like if you looked at them and
didn't know that, I think you

704
00:55:02.880 --> 00:55:07.599
might read them as female. But
they're definitely someone androgynists, but not entirely,

705
00:55:07.639 --> 00:55:12.400
which is nice also because non binary
does not have to mean androgynists.

706
00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.320
But they're just they're just you know, mentioned with that they pronoun and nothing

707
00:55:15.320 --> 00:55:20.360
else is said about it, and
that to me was so meaningful because,

708
00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:23.559
like I've talked about other non binary
characters who have a really important role,

709
00:55:25.599 --> 00:55:29.400
I forget the character's name, but
in Shira being one of my favorites,

710
00:55:29.719 --> 00:55:34.199
but also just having this level of
representation of yeah, there's just this one

711
00:55:34.239 --> 00:55:37.440
side character who's not even a part
of the big thing, but they have

712
00:55:37.480 --> 00:55:39.440
they then pronouns. We're gonna use
their then pronouns and no one's gonna mention

713
00:55:39.480 --> 00:55:49.119
it as anything worth mentioning is just
fantastic. Yeah, that is good at

714
00:55:49.199 --> 00:55:53.920
the Asian lowest thing. I mean, what more do I need to say,

715
00:55:55.000 --> 00:56:00.719
but I will say. What I
will say is that Superman being a

716
00:56:00.920 --> 00:56:07.920
literal alien, they often tell these
stories and especially when he's in conflict with

717
00:56:08.079 --> 00:56:15.719
Lex Lex Luthor is often very anti
alien, right, and these stories can

718
00:56:15.760 --> 00:56:21.800
be read in an American context as
being anti immigrant, anti you know,

719
00:56:21.880 --> 00:56:28.719
other. So to have Lois now
be confirmed as Korean is going to play

720
00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:34.480
very interestingly in season two with the
way that they are setting up the Superman

721
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:40.119
Lex Luthor conflict, and I'm very
curious to see how they use her character

722
00:56:40.480 --> 00:56:45.920
and her voice to address this.
And I really hope they do. I

723
00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:50.000
hope that it's not just like this
token yeah, like she's Korean, because

724
00:56:50.719 --> 00:56:55.239
I feel like she she does have
she does need to say something important about

725
00:56:55.400 --> 00:57:01.239
America, like as a concept and
as about a place where people aspire to

726
00:57:01.360 --> 00:57:06.960
come to and to be a part
of, like even if they don't look

727
00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:12.159
like you know, everyone around them. So I really hope that they handle

728
00:57:12.199 --> 00:57:17.360
this carefully and do that justice with
her character, because it's We're at this

729
00:57:17.519 --> 00:57:23.800
time in the real world where we
are talking about these issues, and it's,

730
00:57:24.920 --> 00:57:30.960
in my opinion, like it has
never been addressed like as directly as

731
00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:36.400
this show could address it because of
the whiteness of Lois because Superman is white,

732
00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:39.039
and so to like have this parallel
and then to have, you know,

733
00:57:39.079 --> 00:57:44.199
like Jimmy Olsen being black, which
we have seen more of. You

734
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:46.960
mentioned the Supergirl TV show. He
was black in that, and so I

735
00:57:47.559 --> 00:57:52.480
don't know when that happened, but
it sounds like there's also been Asian Lewis's

736
00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:59.519
in appearing in versions in comics.
I'm reading about one called American Alien,

737
00:57:59.559 --> 00:58:04.519
which again, like that just kind
of directly draws that line of literal space

738
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:08.960
alien to you know, alien you
know, as as we call them in

739
00:58:08.960 --> 00:58:15.400
in terms of immigration. So I
am, like, I'm a little worried,

740
00:58:15.800 --> 00:58:19.519
but I am hopeful and I'm I'm
going to put my faith in this

741
00:58:19.639 --> 00:58:22.400
team because of how they have handled
this so far, and we'll see how

742
00:58:22.400 --> 00:58:27.440
it goes. And and also like
you know what, fans like deal with

743
00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:31.119
it, right, Like I know
there are always going to be people who

744
00:58:31.320 --> 00:58:38.360
get upset with something like this,
but why tell the same Clark can't Lois

745
00:58:38.480 --> 00:58:44.920
Lane stories over and over right in
the same way. And this is a

746
00:58:44.960 --> 00:58:47.719
way that you can have a character
that of Lowis Lane that still has a

747
00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:52.639
through line to the lowest Lanes of
the past, and to tell a new,

748
00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:57.199
different story because like, yeah,
we shouldn't just tell the same stories.

749
00:58:57.960 --> 00:59:00.400
Yeah, now, I very much
agree with all of that, and

750
00:59:00.440 --> 00:59:04.559
I think there's so much interesting about
the immigration experience there to be talked about,

751
00:59:05.239 --> 00:59:07.880
and just on the like the like
you know, fans get over it.

752
00:59:07.679 --> 00:59:12.519
I have to say, I think
Asian Lewis Lane Korean Lewis Lane specifically

753
00:59:13.039 --> 00:59:19.039
followed directly in the next episode by
the non binary character, is very intentional

754
00:59:19.199 --> 00:59:22.599
of the like, Okay, we're
gonna piss off fans already with this and

755
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:24.440
have some of the idiots out themselves. Let's just, you know, do

756
00:59:24.519 --> 00:59:29.920
it twice, like right in a
row. Beca's like like the fact that

757
00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:31.400
neither one of those things had been
mentioned at all, Like there'd been a

758
00:59:31.440 --> 00:59:36.679
couple of other I think one or
two side characters had mentioned like that.

759
00:59:36.840 --> 00:59:38.360
I don't remember who, but there
was some man who talked about his husband.

760
00:59:38.400 --> 00:59:40.960
I think maybe doctor I've not doctor
Ivo, but like someone who worked

761
00:59:40.960 --> 00:59:45.199
for him. There was definitely a
man making reference to his husband in a

762
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:52.360
way that was again very very like
not sub There's definitely a kid that Clark

763
00:59:52.440 --> 00:59:54.639
Rowski is at one point who has
two moms. Yeah, oh yeah,

764
00:59:54.679 --> 00:59:59.719
yeah, that's your true So yeah, no, it's been great. There

765
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.400
was it is that good. I
was just gonna say, there's actually there's

766
01:00:02.400 --> 01:00:07.639
a graphic novel that came out last
year called Girl taking Over a Lois Lane

767
01:00:07.760 --> 01:00:15.920
story by Sarah Koon and Ariel Joblanos, who are both Asian and Lois is

768
01:00:15.960 --> 01:00:19.239
Asian in that story, and I
was actually at like there was a book

769
01:00:19.320 --> 01:00:22.440
launch for it here in the city
and they were asked like did d C

770
01:00:22.639 --> 01:00:27.440
pushback on this? I'm making Lois
Asian, and apparently d C said,

771
01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:30.119
no, that's fine as long as
she has black hair, Like that was

772
01:00:30.159 --> 01:00:36.079
their rule, that was their requirement, which is funny because like that's not

773
01:00:36.119 --> 01:00:38.159
even consistent, like Amy Adams does
not have black hair. But I guess

774
01:00:38.159 --> 01:00:43.719
for the comics, that's their only
rule. So you know, sorry haters,

775
01:00:43.760 --> 01:00:49.920
but Lois is black hair, so
she is DC approved non black hair

776
01:00:50.000 --> 01:00:52.000
for well, I guess they've already
done with ab amass say, like,

777
01:00:52.119 --> 01:00:55.039
because I also think of the dark
hair, the black hair being essential to

778
01:00:55.119 --> 01:01:00.719
Superman himself. Yeah, you can't
have a blonde Superman. That'd be weird.

779
01:01:00.519 --> 01:01:04.599
Yeah, I need to be Rian, which the two Jews creating him.

780
01:01:04.599 --> 01:01:07.840
We're not. We're trying not to
make so. And I'm also hopeful

781
01:01:08.079 --> 01:01:14.360
for like future stories because now we
have you know, in a lot of

782
01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:17.239
the comics and the TV show,
the other TV shows, Well, Lois

783
01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:22.559
and Clark get married, they have
kids, and then we get this next

784
01:01:22.599 --> 01:01:27.480
generation. Like I believe there's one
comic right now that is Jonathan Kent.

785
01:01:27.719 --> 01:01:31.599
Their son is Superman, right,
and so like as we get more stories

786
01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:37.639
with Asian Lois in theory, we
get stories where Asian Lewis marries Clark Kent.

787
01:01:38.000 --> 01:01:43.880
They have they have a half Asian, half Kryptonian kid who becomes Superman.

788
01:01:44.000 --> 01:01:47.199
So maybe I finally get my wish
Sunday. Well, and I mean

789
01:01:47.400 --> 01:01:52.239
especially because like most of the stories
I know about Superman having a son,

790
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:57.559
it's a clone that's been made for
nefarious purposes, who he then adopts to

791
01:01:57.559 --> 01:02:02.039
some extent, not necessarily a biological
son of Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

792
01:02:02.360 --> 01:02:09.440
well his his clone Superboy uh con
l or Connor Kent. His other biological

793
01:02:09.480 --> 01:02:16.480
parents is Lex Luthor. So yeah, but I don't ship them. I'm

794
01:02:16.480 --> 01:02:22.719
sorry, I think that I staid. Take that back. I shipped them

795
01:02:22.719 --> 01:02:28.880
in Smallville. Small vill Yeah,
like they had a moment, but it

796
01:02:28.920 --> 01:02:32.039
didn't well, it didn't work out. Honestly, I feel like in my

797
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:37.480
adventures at Superman, Lex is clearly
way more into Jimmy because he's like Jimmy,

798
01:02:37.639 --> 01:02:44.079
Jimmy such great advice, Let's be
best friends forever. I will also

799
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:45.079
say, we're gonna put you off
topic here, so I'm gonna say this

800
01:02:45.199 --> 01:02:47.360
that y'all comment, and then I'm
gonna pull us back to wrap up,

801
01:02:47.360 --> 01:02:52.320
and then we'll get to the bonus
content of the like, it is also

802
01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:57.800
interesting to me how now there's a
couple of different aspects of the story that

803
01:02:58.000 --> 01:03:01.480
other versions had changed pretty dramatically,
but now we've just kind of accepted that

804
01:03:01.480 --> 01:03:08.880
that's the change that that we're mostly
going with. To me, one of

805
01:03:08.880 --> 01:03:14.079
the most one of the ones that
I'm most against is for me, I

806
01:03:14.199 --> 01:03:19.880
want Lex Luthor to be Gene Hackman, not Jesse Eisenberg. I do not

807
01:03:20.239 --> 01:03:23.400
like the young, feisty kid Lex
Luthor. And maybe this one will be

808
01:03:23.400 --> 01:03:29.280
better because I actively despise the one
in the Snyder version, making you very

809
01:03:29.280 --> 01:03:32.880
similar to most of the Snyder versions. But when I saw that, I

810
01:03:32.880 --> 01:03:36.559
think I had a thought of is
this supposed to be Lex? In a

811
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:42.519
we're doing Jesse Eisenberg again, and
I really hoped it wasn't so. And

812
01:03:42.599 --> 01:03:44.800
you're looking at me like, I
think Jesse Eisenberg is the wrong name,

813
01:03:44.800 --> 01:03:49.840
but like there's two young male actors
who Okay, it is Jesse. So

814
01:03:50.000 --> 01:03:52.280
yeah, I'm just putting that out
there that I don't love young Lex.

815
01:03:52.360 --> 01:03:58.320
But we'll see where it goes.
I mean, I agree with you that

816
01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:05.239
Jesse Eisenberg's performance is just different.
It was different, just wretched. He

817
01:04:05.360 --> 01:04:10.360
made some choices. I don't agree
with those choices. I don't want to

818
01:04:10.400 --> 01:04:15.599
watch Lex force feed. But was
it a jelly bean to a minion or

819
01:04:15.639 --> 01:04:18.519
what? Just a weird performance?
Is like a stone? Yeah, it

820
01:04:18.599 --> 01:04:24.000
was so weird Anyway, Joker is
a great character, a great character,

821
01:04:24.039 --> 01:04:27.320
but he tried to do the Joker. I'm like, you're let's see,

822
01:04:27.320 --> 01:04:32.800
it's a different guy. But I'm
fine with Lex being roughly the same ANSI

823
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:36.039
as Clark because that has a super
long history, like in the comics,

824
01:04:36.079 --> 01:04:41.480
and it depends on the universe.
It's been rebooted back and forth many times,

825
01:04:41.559 --> 01:04:45.000
but there's a long history of them
growing up together in Smallville, like

826
01:04:45.199 --> 01:04:49.960
that's that's not that was not invented
by Snyder and it wasn't invented by Smallville,

827
01:04:50.480 --> 01:04:56.079
this Smallville TV show. So I
don't really have a problem with it.

828
01:04:56.639 --> 01:05:01.199
My thing about Lex is I prefer
him as a corrupt businessman who is

829
01:05:01.239 --> 01:05:06.199
a genius scientist, but like that
kind of I don't want him in like

830
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:12.320
a power suit cackling maniacally. I
want him to be like chairman of the

831
01:05:12.360 --> 01:05:15.679
board. And again, I think
he's a very young Lex moving into that

832
01:05:15.800 --> 01:05:20.360
role. And I always got the
impression of him like that. Him and

833
01:05:20.400 --> 01:05:24.199
the Amanda. By the way,
Amanda Waller is done so dirty in the

834
01:05:24.239 --> 01:05:29.119
show, and I'll talk about that
at a different time, But to me,

835
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:34.039
he's You're right. He's the corrupt
businessman who gets rich helping people like

836
01:05:35.039 --> 01:05:40.000
Amanda Waller who are actually afraid of
Superman, and he he sells the fear

837
01:05:40.000 --> 01:05:44.840
of Superman as a way of making
money. He's not actually an anti Superman

838
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:50.199
zealot in in the way that he's
portrayed in this which but we'll get We

839
01:05:50.239 --> 01:05:54.519
needed a whole episode on that because, like I said, like, I'll

840
01:05:54.559 --> 01:05:56.360
just say the brief part of it. No, No, I'm gonna hold

841
01:05:56.400 --> 01:06:00.519
off on it, hold off on
to say I agree with you. Yeah,

842
01:06:00.599 --> 01:06:02.960
that'll be part two. So I
think you're kind of wrapping up to

843
01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:06.079
the actual question you started with,
Riky. I feel like we're all saying

844
01:06:06.159 --> 01:06:10.840
yes, right that to something like
for a good Superman story, we need

845
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:15.159
Lois Lane, maybe we need Jimmy
as well. We need the characters who

846
01:06:15.199 --> 01:06:18.679
relate to Clark Kent in human ways
to make him the character we want to

847
01:06:18.719 --> 01:06:24.440
watch. Yeah, and even for
movies, like we talked talked about the

848
01:06:24.480 --> 01:06:28.599
dichotomy and how movies have to have
a certain balance of action and that choose

849
01:06:28.599 --> 01:06:32.199
into the time that you can have
the human element. But I feel like

850
01:06:32.239 --> 01:06:40.639
the Richard Donner Christopher Reeve version of
Superman the movie is well remembered, beloved,

851
01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:45.719
and they have a lot of Lois
Lane in it. It is an

852
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:51.039
important part of that movie in a
way that most of the more modern incarnations

853
01:06:51.400 --> 01:06:59.440
just don't do just justice. Aha. So yeah, like I you know,

854
01:06:59.599 --> 01:07:03.760
James Gun, I like his movies, and so I'm going to give

855
01:07:03.840 --> 01:07:08.440
him the benefit of the doubt with
his Superman movie and we'll just see what

856
01:07:08.880 --> 01:07:15.119
kind of balance he strikes. I
continue to agree with Riky on everything so

857
01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:19.320
good, so that's large in my
perspective as well, although not always so

858
01:07:19.360 --> 01:07:23.039
well. I think it's gonna be
me against the two of you when we

859
01:07:23.039 --> 01:07:26.000
discussed season two, but we will, in a bonus action have a few

860
01:07:26.039 --> 01:07:30.840
thoughts on two characters who Jessica and
myself did not love the inclusion of or

861
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:34.719
representation of. That we'll discuss,
but for now, Jessica, for those

862
01:07:34.760 --> 01:07:38.679
who haven't heard from you in a
little while and want to remind themselves other

863
01:07:38.760 --> 01:07:41.880
than a book, coming out in
May. Where can people find your stuff

864
01:07:41.920 --> 01:07:45.719
right now? Well, right now, I'm on the site formerly known as

865
01:07:45.760 --> 01:07:50.639
Twitter as well as Blue Sky as
Jess Plumber, and you can find my

866
01:07:50.679 --> 01:07:57.400
writing about Superman and other comics and
books and such at bookrinot dot com.

867
01:07:58.320 --> 01:08:00.880
Cool cool, And of course you
can find all the ways to support this

868
01:08:00.920 --> 01:08:04.079
podcast on our show notes. Give
us feedback. We'd love to hear what

869
01:08:04.119 --> 01:08:06.400
you think. We'd love to know
what your ideas are. We really want

870
01:08:06.400 --> 01:08:10.079
to hear all that, And of
course you become a member. We're trying

871
01:08:10.119 --> 01:08:14.800
really hard to update the audio for
myself and some of my co hosts and

872
01:08:14.800 --> 01:08:17.399
stuff like that, but the stuff
isn't free, and becoming a member is

873
01:08:17.399 --> 01:08:20.159
a really great way to help support
us, help us, you know,

874
01:08:21.720 --> 01:08:25.640
improve the quality of the product that
we're able to offer you, and also

875
01:08:25.680 --> 01:08:28.199
just help us keep the lights on
and show your support. So if you

876
01:08:28.199 --> 01:08:30.840
can do that, please become a
member. You get bonus content like what

877
01:08:30.880 --> 01:08:32.640
we'll be discussing in just a moment. But for everybody else, thank you

878
01:08:32.680 --> 01:08:34.039
so much. We have spoken