WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:07.679 You were in the place where mysteries and the missing meet. We're conspiracies lurk 2 00:00:07.879 --> 00:00:17.920 around every corner. Welcome to the Deep Dark Truth. Welcome back to the 3 00:00:17.920 --> 00:00:25.160 deep dark Truth. I'm Mary Sanderson, I'm Winnifred Sanderson. I am You're 4 00:00:25.199 --> 00:00:29.879 Sarah Sanderson. Now it's the only one left, Sarah Sanderson. This didn't 5 00:00:29.920 --> 00:00:35.159 shake out by accident this way. For the records, I'm totally Sarah. 6 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:39.759 It's Halloween season, so we're talking about weird deaths, and today Chip is 7 00:00:40.280 --> 00:00:45.079 talking about the toxic Lady that he has been bringing up multiple times, and 8 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:49.759 I only have a vague recollection of what this is. I know that I 9 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:58.840 saw like some vice type adjacent documentary on this years ago, and that's all 10 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.840 I remember is that she was a toxic lady. You know, that's your 11 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:07.519 toxic Cut it out of the way early. I like how you knew the 12 00:01:07.599 --> 00:01:15.079 exact legal limit we could say on this show without me having to tell you 13 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:19.000 or edit it out. Of course, I think we've been doing this for 14 00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:25.439 what two three Tanton. We started in twenty nineteen, November of twenty nineteen, 15 00:01:25.519 --> 00:01:29.959 so we technically predate a pandemic, and with that let's get started. 16 00:01:30.439 --> 00:01:34.519 In nineteen ninety four, Gloria Ramirez was a thirty one year old woman with 17 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:38.799 cervical cancer in Riverside, California. She had only been diagnosed with stage four 18 00:01:38.920 --> 00:01:44.760 cervical cancer six weeks before her death. Already, it's sadder than I remember 19 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:48.359 it being. Yeah, it's not going to get happier. I see conflicting 20 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.200 reports of whether she had already started chemo slash radiation or not. Most things 21 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:56.599 said she hadn't started any sort of treatment, but sub said she might have 22 00:01:56.599 --> 00:02:00.599 started chemo. I feel like that's important in terms of her time toxicity. 23 00:02:00.760 --> 00:02:04.000 That that's okay. We'll talk about it again later. It's only so much 24 00:02:04.040 --> 00:02:08.240 knowledge we have on the science pit anyway. On February nineteenth, at approximately 25 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:13.159 seven fifty pm, the fire department and an ambulance arrive at Gloria's home. 26 00:02:13.479 --> 00:02:17.000 She has an irregular heartbeat and is having difficulty breathing. She also reports having 27 00:02:17.039 --> 00:02:21.680 been nauseous and vomiting for the past few days. The ambulance drives her to 28 00:02:22.120 --> 00:02:24.879 Riverside General Hospital emergency room, and on the way she's put on a heart 29 00:02:24.919 --> 00:02:29.599 monitor. She's given oxygen and has an ivy put in, they drive, 30 00:02:29.800 --> 00:02:34.120 everything's normal. They arrive twenty five minutes later. Gloria is conscious, but 31 00:02:34.319 --> 00:02:38.840 lethargic and answering questions a little incoherently, so she's not really all there. 32 00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:44.360 She also has a rapid heartbeat and shallow breathing. They give her various medications 33 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:49.199 that are normal for doing things in the emergency room, including ada van valium, 34 00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.520 light, Decayan, and others, and later tests would show that she 35 00:02:52.520 --> 00:02:57.919 also had drugs in her system, including taylanol and camapazine, which is however 36 00:02:57.919 --> 00:03:01.000 you pronounced it, it's an anti nausea medication, which makes sense. Yeah, 37 00:03:01.199 --> 00:03:09.240 And so multiple staff members report that they smell a garlicky slash fruity smell 38 00:03:09.479 --> 00:03:14.199 and that her body appears to have an oily sheen to it, you know. 39 00:03:14.280 --> 00:03:15.639 In a very short amount of time, they're like, she's getting worse, 40 00:03:15.879 --> 00:03:21.280 so they ventilator. A quick little pause right here. Some of you 41 00:03:21.319 --> 00:03:28.159 may recognize the story not from its actual news story, but from a Gray's 42 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.680 Anatomy episode. So A Grey's Anatomy episode was modeled after this, which is 43 00:03:31.759 --> 00:03:36.080 part of why I'm having so much trouble remembering. I'm like conflating them both 44 00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:38.439 in my head, and I'm not sure which was that episode in which is 45 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:42.919 this? Also, there was an X Files episode apparently based on this. 46 00:03:43.080 --> 00:03:45.759 I haven't seen it. I can't tell you anything about Wow. I bet 47 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:50.400 my grandfather has rest in peace. Gloria is getting worse and she's ventilated by 48 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.879 Maureen Welch, a respiratory therapist. IVY is put in by Susan Kane. 49 00:03:54.360 --> 00:03:59.560 When Susan draws blood from this new IVY she's put in, she detects an 50 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:03.560 ammonat like smell. She passes the syringe to Welch, who also smells the 51 00:04:03.560 --> 00:04:09.800 ammonia, and Welch will pass the syringe to Julie Kurtchynsky, a medical resident 52 00:04:09.840 --> 00:04:14.639 who's working at Interesting Already. I'm like, okay, well it's airborne because 53 00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:17.720 the respiratory therapist. But also the fact that they're smelling something. They're not 54 00:04:17.800 --> 00:04:24.040 poking themselves with the needle, like there's no there's no blood contact, not 55 00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:29.839 that we know of. Even a plebotomist is completely gloved up when they're taking 56 00:04:29.839 --> 00:04:35.319 your blood or doing an IVY. So it gets Pastaky who notices a Manila 57 00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:43.439 colored crystals in the blood. What they're very small, they look yellowish. 58 00:04:43.600 --> 00:04:47.560 They're in the blood and that's upsetting. So the nurse Kane who had passed, 59 00:04:47.600 --> 00:04:51.759 who had taken the blood, she passed the syringe on and leaned over 60 00:04:51.839 --> 00:04:56.279 to smell the ammonia to figure out where it's coming from. She you know, 61 00:04:56.360 --> 00:05:00.839 takes a step back and then proceeds to fate. She falls down. 62 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:04.759 She gets caught by I think it's by ochoa, and you know, she 63 00:05:04.800 --> 00:05:09.360 wakes up because that fainting, you just wake up instantly sometimes, And she 64 00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:14.000 reports that her face felt like it was burning hot. Inhaled too much ammonia, 65 00:05:14.120 --> 00:05:17.800 right or something, And so they pack her up and put her on 66 00:05:17.839 --> 00:05:23.399 a gurdi and roll her away from Gloria. Then we've got Gortchinsky next, 67 00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:30.120 who reports feeling lightheaded and queasy. She leaves like I'm gonna go sit down, 68 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:34.040 and when someone one of the Whoever's went to check on her and say, 69 00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:39.040 hey, how you doing, she faints. She starts having convulsions and 70 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:43.639 aptias. Aptia is being when you stop breathing for a little bit. Oh 71 00:05:43.680 --> 00:05:47.560 my gosh, Jesus, that's when Welch the original one, the one who 72 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.480 ventilated her, is now having convulsions too, So how many are out now 73 00:05:51.519 --> 00:05:58.439 three we've got three big symptoms and then unclear when the rest of them are 74 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:01.160 reporting symptoms, but those are the big ones. At this point, the 75 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:08.439 doctor in charge, Umberto Ochoa, orders the evacuation of the ar All the 76 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:13.439 rest of the ear patients and most of the staff are taken out to the 77 00:06:13.600 --> 00:06:18.680 parking lot and there's just a crew of it didn't specify, but small crew 78 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:24.680 left to try and save Gloria. Yeah, there is emergency protocol for any 79 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:28.800 kind of pathogens like this, and I'm guessing at this point that they start 80 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:34.959 fully peering up masts, disposable robes, the whole nine yards at this point. 81 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:40.920 Anecdotally, probably true in some capacity. You know, all the doctors 82 00:06:41.000 --> 00:06:43.959 and everyone who went out into the parking lot with the other ones, you 83 00:06:43.959 --> 00:06:46.439 know, we don't know what's happening. So they all have to strip off 84 00:06:46.439 --> 00:06:50.600 their clothes and bag them and they're just providing patient care in their underwear. 85 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:55.839 YEP, decontaminate. That's fun. That's a fun image in your head. 86 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.600 I mean, when you think about the amount of bodily fluids that regularly are 87 00:06:59.639 --> 00:07:02.879 getting on your scrubs. I know from experience, it can be a lot 88 00:07:03.000 --> 00:07:08.399 sometimes, and so you would think that they would have lots of clean new 89 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:14.120 scrubs and they wouldn't be doing patient care in their underwear. Weird vibes, 90 00:07:14.759 --> 00:07:18.360 I vote. The reason I say anecdotally is because I'm not sure that probably 91 00:07:18.560 --> 00:07:23.279 you know, lasted more than five minutes or happened for a lot. But 92 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:27.079 it's just a funny image, so you know. Yeah, So Choa orders 93 00:07:27.079 --> 00:07:29.759 everyone out and it's just a few of them who stay and try and save 94 00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:34.759 Gloria. She's intubated and she's given more drugs and defibrillated, but she does 95 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:40.399 not survive. And the doctor in charge declares her time of death at eight 96 00:07:40.480 --> 00:07:46.240 fifty, about an hour after they showed up at her house. How absolutely 97 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:50.160 horrible. She's like worried about trying to beat cancer and she doesn't even have 98 00:07:50.720 --> 00:07:58.079 a chance. And it was diagnosed stage four real late. Yeah, but 99 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:03.399 it's not late because I wasn't. Again. See, that's what's weird too. 100 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:07.439 If it was colon cancer like like the Grey's Anatomy episode, or like 101 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:11.920 intestinal cancer somehow, I don't know, Just like the gaseousness aspect, it's 102 00:08:11.959 --> 00:08:18.720 just weird to me. Even with blood infections like sepsis and then having lingering 103 00:08:18.759 --> 00:08:22.839 blood infections, you have to take antibiotics for rest between. Like it has 104 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:26.319 to be completely separate from the cancer, maybe not separate from potential chemo. 105 00:08:26.399 --> 00:08:33.480 It just has to be another thing, unless there's some kind of breakdown of 106 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.879 other organs, like if it metastasized and went to the liver or something and 107 00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:43.080 then it's excreting, you have like the liver excreting. I'm in medical mode. 108 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:46.440 I'm sorry, this is actually annoying. I didn't mean too. This 109 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:52.639 is why we're here. What is the podcast? Is your livers secretes toxins 110 00:08:54.240 --> 00:08:58.039 when it's in peril or shutting down? Okay, continue on. In total, 111 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:03.559 twenty three staff members of A thirty seven who were all present, report 112 00:09:03.639 --> 00:09:07.320 at least one symptom. Of those, twenty three, five were hospitalized. 113 00:09:09.480 --> 00:09:13.679 One, Sally Balduras, who wasn't directly invulged, but she helped move the 114 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:20.559 body after Gloria died, spent ten days in the hospital experience apneas. Holy 115 00:09:20.799 --> 00:09:26.879 shit. Wow. But the one who got it the worst was Gortchynsky, 116 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:33.320 who spent two weeks in intensive care. She had the respiratory therapists. She 117 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:37.840 was the medical resident who noticed the crystals two weeks in intensive care. A 118 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:46.080 whole long list of shit, including apneas hepatitis which is liver inflammation, pancreatitis, 119 00:09:46.399 --> 00:09:52.000 pancreas inflammation, and a vascular necrosis, which is when bone tissue is 120 00:09:52.120 --> 00:09:58.200 deprived of blood and starts to die. What a fuck she had this a 121 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:01.799 vascular necrosis in her knees so bad that she would be on crutches for months 122 00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:07.279 afterwards. It's unclear how long she was there before you know it started going 123 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.679 wrong, but everything describes it as she quickly is going wrong, and she 124 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:16.039 was only there. She got there at eight fifteen and was dead by eight 125 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:22.120 fifty. I mean it makes the ammonia makes sense because infections produce ammonia, 126 00:10:22.159 --> 00:10:28.919 but not like to the extent of like attacking someone like I can understand somebody 127 00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:33.159 getting dizzy. I could understand like, but she could have had an infection 128 00:10:33.200 --> 00:10:39.480 in her body for a decade. I mean, it could have such wildly 129 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:48.360 different symptoms. I feel like being nauseous and apnea and liver toxicity are just 130 00:10:48.559 --> 00:10:52.799 not if you gave me those symptoms, And why is it just leaking out 131 00:10:52.840 --> 00:10:56.600 of her veins as they take her blood out. Yeah, an autopsy. 132 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:03.320 Shockingly they did three. Okay, go on. At this point we get 133 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.200 into the oh, how do we explain this, and the answer is we 134 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:11.639 don't. Hazmat team arrives at the hospital around eleven PM and they search the 135 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:15.600 hospital for you know, things they expect or things that they don't expect, 136 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:20.600 and they find nothing, nothing that seems to indicate anything that could be anything 137 00:11:20.639 --> 00:11:24.240 like this. It's cleared by ten am in the morning. Had she been 138 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:28.399 removed by at this point, Yeah, during all this time, she was 139 00:11:28.639 --> 00:11:33.120 put in an airtight casket and you know, double bagged and put safely away. 140 00:11:33.159 --> 00:11:37.679 And anyone in this hospital right now is in a hazmat suit. And 141 00:11:37.759 --> 00:11:39.200 when they get to the autopsies, all three of them, they will be 142 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.840 in hazmat suits and they will be in a specially designed room to make sure 143 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:48.159 the gas doesn't leak out because they have no idea what's fucking happening. Just 144 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:50.799 so that we're on the same page, this is the kind of shit that 145 00:11:50.840 --> 00:11:56.360 you do so that you don't start a pandemic. This is what if this 146 00:11:56.600 --> 00:12:03.600 was done three years ago, we'd be living very different lives. Right now, 147 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.159 and I'm bitter as fuck, but also good job for not unleashing this 148 00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.960 on the world. I mean, it's a mystery. Did either of you 149 00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:13.120 ever read the stand by Stephen King or see the Thing? I don't remember 150 00:12:13.159 --> 00:12:16.279 I did. I did see the thing, well, the prologue. The 151 00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:18.279 very first thing that happens is there in like a government facility, and the 152 00:12:18.279 --> 00:12:22.000 alarm gets hit that something's broken. Yeah, and then the toll booth worker 153 00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:24.559 and it's so yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and the toll booth worker 154 00:12:24.639 --> 00:12:28.679 does a runner and it's his fault that everyone is dead. Just just die 155 00:12:30.240 --> 00:12:33.759 with the rest of your people. You're working at a secret government facility with 156 00:12:33.879 --> 00:12:37.919 dangerous shit. Don't murder the rest of the world because you got scared, 157 00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:43.000 because now your whole family's dead. And that anyway, at the hospital is 158 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:48.559 you know, super clean, decontaminated or whatever. I perform multiple optopsies. 159 00:12:48.639 --> 00:12:52.720 The first one is after six days, then another one after oh I want 160 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:54.559 to say it was two weeks, I didn't write it down, and then 161 00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:58.320 another one that was more like a month and a half later. That's smart 162 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.879 as fun, though, because those are way different states of decomposition. I'm 163 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:07.480 so sorry. Medical mode. I know that this was a woman with a 164 00:13:07.600 --> 00:13:09.480 family. Again, this is a podcast. This is why we're here, 165 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.080 I know. But it's not like a spooky story or like this happened in 166 00:13:15.159 --> 00:13:22.720 nineteen twenty. But all the autopsies and searching the hospital itself gets basically nothing. 167 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:28.200 There are many different organizations who will get involved, the Riverside Coroner's Office, 168 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.720 the California Department of Health and Human Services, and some federal agencies, 169 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.320 and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health. I hope the CDC. 170 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:46.039 Technically I didn't see it listed. No one mentioned it cool and notably an 171 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:50.519 organization, the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratories, But we'll get back to them later. 172 00:13:50.919 --> 00:13:56.960 So every test that everyone runs seems to return basically was at normal levels, 173 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.919 and there were very few things that were like this is elevated, and 174 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:07.000 those things didn't explain what happened. What was elevated. Three things that were 175 00:14:07.399 --> 00:14:13.120 weirdly elevated. One was an unidentified amine, I mean amine, you know, 176 00:14:13.240 --> 00:14:18.120 a derivative of ammonia. I probably contributed to that smell. I mean 177 00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:20.440 yeah, I would I would say so, especially since they smelled an ammonia 178 00:14:20.480 --> 00:14:26.519 smell. But one team said that the presence of that, I mean amine 179 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:33.960 is probably because her body was breaking down tigan, an anti nausea drug, 180 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:39.399 so that's probably why there were that elevated levels. Oh okay, so her 181 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:43.960 meds would have affected that level at the very least. Yeah, But so 182 00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:48.840 didn't they give her that anti I thought they gave her the anti nausea medicine 183 00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:52.440 at the hospital. Well, she had been feeling nauseous first few days, 184 00:14:52.960 --> 00:14:56.039 so she had already taken it mostly. Oh god, it I was I 185 00:14:56.080 --> 00:14:58.759 was thinking that she was given it at the hospital, in which case it 186 00:14:58.840 --> 00:15:03.639 was. It wouldn't be in your blood supply that much if you had just 187 00:15:03.799 --> 00:15:09.799 taken it but got it. She was on antennages. Second thing was nicotinamide 188 00:15:11.919 --> 00:15:16.960 compound that it's a vitamin B crucial for human health. That was thrown out 189 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:24.840 at one point. It's also used in meth, so that was elevated and 190 00:15:24.879 --> 00:15:28.360 it's fairly cheap, so it's in uh, you know, meth drugs, 191 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:33.840 but we don't. There wasn't any evidence that she was on meth itself. 192 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.720 You didn't find that. Also, there will be mentioned of PCP, and 193 00:15:37.759 --> 00:15:43.240 there was no evidence that she actually had PCP in her system. It's just 194 00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:46.919 like, these are some of the things that we know that are most common 195 00:15:46.720 --> 00:15:52.799 for this very specific like that's elevated. It's usually because of x quyerity. 196 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:58.720 Yeah. And then the third thing that was elevated and therefore weird was die 197 00:15:58.759 --> 00:16:04.000 meth full cul phone. And now we have to talk about chemistry. I 198 00:16:04.039 --> 00:16:12.440 was already looking at the chemistry and like what so the main theories that we'll 199 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:21.799 talk about involves dimethyl sulfone, dimethyl sulfa, sulfoxide, and dimethyl sulfate. 200 00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.840 I'm gonna call them a cull phone DM DMSO, which is the sulfoxide one 201 00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:33.440 and sulfate the one that they found elevated in her system. The sulfone one 202 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.240 is a kind of solvent that you know is used in industrial places, but 203 00:16:37.320 --> 00:16:44.240 also our body produces small amounts of it naturally, right, But it has 204 00:16:44.279 --> 00:16:48.279 a quick half life and so it's usually out of your system after a few 205 00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:52.879 days. But hers had very high levels even in the you know, later 206 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:02.240 autopsies, and they check that she didn't have a tumor, right, I 207 00:17:02.240 --> 00:17:08.720 don't know why, Yeah, but I mean very specifically pituitary gland maybe. 208 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:14.519 Okay, So the thing that was making me think pituitary gland is that it 209 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.640 could It's one of those types of tumors that could cause your body to start 210 00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:22.640 making a lot more of something or not making as much of something. And 211 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:26.920 I'm wondering if you if it's the right things, the right combination of things 212 00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:33.960 that are being overproduced, if they wouldn't basically cause like some type of noxious 213 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:41.079 toxin together, like once they're chemically combined, that would then turn that person 214 00:17:41.319 --> 00:17:45.799 into like a toxic bomb. Basically it's like perfect storm moment. Yeah, 215 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:49.599 like it's coming when it's coming through your skin. Yeah, well I had 216 00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.880 to be in it would have had to be. But I'm I'm saying, 217 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:59.079 I wonder if there's like some chemical combination that we didn't realize would create that 218 00:17:59.160 --> 00:18:02.440 effect. It is produced within her own body, I mean, it doesn't 219 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:07.359 seem I'm going with aliens, Jip. If you go with Aliens, I 220 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:14.759 swear to out it will come through this computer. The woman from the Titanic, 221 00:18:18.839 --> 00:18:22.440 they none of them really showed up anything, like there wasn't any mention 222 00:18:22.599 --> 00:18:29.839 of a pituitary tumor. But so the official cause of death as we all 223 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:32.319 know, which is the thing that literally kills you. Not the manner of 224 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:37.680 death. Cause of death was cardiac dysrhythmia brought on by acute kidney failure, 225 00:18:38.200 --> 00:18:44.799 which was brought on by cervical cancer making a urinary blockage. So that's where 226 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:48.599 they went with the high ammonia, is that it had to have something to 227 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:55.000 do with urinary tract getting blocked and then that ammonia was building up more. 228 00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:00.480 They do not connect anything about her death to the chemicals. They release cause 229 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:06.920 of death, heart attack, and the coroner's office like, okay, case 230 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.480 closed, Yep, yep, we don't have to do any weird. Yep, 231 00:19:08.519 --> 00:19:11.200 We're good. And everyone's like, no, you have to. You 232 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:15.119 have to try and explain what the fuck happened. So everyone's investigating, no 233 00:19:15.160 --> 00:19:21.359 one finds anything, and eventually California's Department of Health and Human Services has a 234 00:19:21.400 --> 00:19:25.519 team who does a survey, asked standardized questions of all the staff members. 235 00:19:25.519 --> 00:19:27.759 Well, thirty four of the thirty seven staff members don't ask me why? 236 00:19:27.960 --> 00:19:32.880 Did an analysis of their answers. This is a quote from an article we'll 237 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.000 talk about later. The survey found that those afflicted tended to be women rather 238 00:19:37.039 --> 00:19:40.119 than men, as well as people would skipped dinner that evening rather than those 239 00:19:40.160 --> 00:19:45.240 who had a full stomach. Correlation does not equal causation. Everyone listening at 240 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:48.519 home, if there's one thing that you remember from this episode today from our 241 00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:56.759 podcast from life, please, correlation does not equal causation. And with these 242 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:02.119 statistics and their analysis of whatever other questions there were, the California Health Department 243 00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:08.000 officially says that the cause of the symptoms for all the staff members was mass 244 00:20:08.039 --> 00:20:12.920 hysteria. Did you see a woman and to say the hospital for ten days 245 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:18.160 and another one for two weeks. The men in black really come in and 246 00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:22.359 be like, it's swamp gas. It's swamp gas. Another quote from that 247 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:26.440 same paper that we'll get to in a second. Reaction to this interpretation was 248 00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:33.599 not unanimously favorable, as you can imagine, including the woman Kachinsky. She 249 00:20:33.079 --> 00:20:40.119 filed lawsuit for various reasons six million dollars. I couldn't find the conclusion of 250 00:20:40.119 --> 00:20:44.119 these lawsuits for the record, but yeah, she was suing for Hey, 251 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:48.519 I didn't imagine it, and also, hey, my workplace like extra endangered 252 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:53.680 me. What the fuck the mass hysteria theory? It just feels a little 253 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:57.640 bit, you know, I'm fine with the mass hysteria theory in some circumstances, 254 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:02.839 but when you're like affected women more than men, and also people who 255 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:07.839 had eaten, Like why would they say mass hysteria, mass hysterias a theory? 256 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:14.160 Nope, So no one was happy. All of those people in Elizabeth 257 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.039 Proctor. So one of the people who had been affected a Welch, respiratory 258 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:25.400 therapist. The respiratory therapist Welch had been collecting pieces of information this whole time, 259 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.880 like here's some newspaper articles, here is a coroner's report, here's a 260 00:21:29.880 --> 00:21:36.039 tacatology, here's a legal brief. Many people unhappy. She sent her notebook 261 00:21:36.079 --> 00:21:41.960 of information to the Livermore National Laboratory, who they were involved. They didn't 262 00:21:41.960 --> 00:21:45.480 really find anything conclusive, but she sent this little packet of them with begging 263 00:21:45.519 --> 00:21:49.079 like can you please look this over again, because she felt they were the 264 00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.720 only one involved without a vested interest. They look over her notebook, they 265 00:21:53.759 --> 00:22:02.359 notice that elevated cell phone and they think about that in contu junction with dmso 266 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:06.599 which is the oxide one? And they're like, hey, wait a second, 267 00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:11.400 and what if this is what happened. They write up a little brief 268 00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.400 they're like, hey, we think this might be what happened. This is 269 00:22:15.559 --> 00:22:21.559 a possible theory. Maybe they send that as a preliminary draft to the corriner's 270 00:22:21.640 --> 00:22:25.079 office, and the Corners office is like, hey, everyone, here's what 271 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:29.759 happened. That's the explanation, the end, and so the livermore people, 272 00:22:30.039 --> 00:22:34.720 right. We emphasize that this proposed explanation is not an unequivocal proof. It's 273 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:40.119 just like, this is our theory based on what we know as professionals. 274 00:22:40.359 --> 00:22:44.839 Yeah, we made some guesses. We didn't get to personally do this autopsy 275 00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:48.599 and have involvement in this lab testing. So this is what we can guess 276 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:52.440 at, but we can't prove it in anyway. This is what we've tried 277 00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:56.200 to piece together. Maybe someone should look into this. And the coroner's office, 278 00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:02.039 who has been under news media this guy national attention because oh my god, 279 00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:06.200 the woman's body poisoned everyone. Well, it's typhoid Mary type of situation. 280 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:10.279 People I'm guessing were like terrified that there was going to be more of 281 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:14.279 this toxic lady. But so as far as the official record goes, Corgor's 282 00:23:14.279 --> 00:23:18.400 office is like, here's your answer, and that's the end of the official 283 00:23:18.480 --> 00:23:22.680 story. Well, just to explain what the Livermore team proposed, there's three 284 00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:26.759 things one, Thing too, and Thing three. Well let's call them Thing 285 00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:30.960 one, Thing two, and Thing four because that's how many oxygen are involved. 286 00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:36.559 Oxygen two is what they found in her system with elevated levels. That's 287 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:41.079 used as an industrial solvent, and our bodies produced naturally at lower levels. 288 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:48.200 Thing one one oxygen is also an industrial solvent, and it has properties that 289 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.920 have some pain killing effects but also can make you lose your eyesight. So 290 00:23:55.680 --> 00:23:57.920 back in the sixties people were doing research on it and they were like, 291 00:23:57.960 --> 00:24:00.759 this is a new miracle drug. And then it turns out it fucks with 292 00:24:00.759 --> 00:24:04.359 your ISA, and so the FDA was like, stop that, don't treat 293 00:24:04.400 --> 00:24:08.400 people with that. And so it has very narrow cases where it's used as 294 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.759 a medication, but people love a home remedy. So people will go to 295 00:24:14.359 --> 00:24:19.440 hardware stores and buy Thing one dmso, which is at freely high concentration levels 296 00:24:19.480 --> 00:24:26.400 because it's used for unsticking things, and they will just use that to treat 297 00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:30.079 like muscle pain. It's really common in athletes in like the eighties would do 298 00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:34.200 this like a like bleach bat at a cap pull of bleach to a bathtub. 299 00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:40.079 It's good for like psoriasis, ezema, skin issues, but is this 300 00:24:40.200 --> 00:24:45.160 actually good for anything? At least use it for muscle pain that was not 301 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:51.440 detected on her body. However, the thing, the theory is a thing 302 00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:57.599 four soul fate with four oxygen. It's used as a reagent in testing scenarios, 303 00:24:57.640 --> 00:25:00.359 which is like they put in the same with a chemical and they're like, 304 00:25:00.359 --> 00:25:03.960 how do you react with this sulfate thing? But also it's a super 305 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:10.319 deadly nerve gas and a very little amount cannot make you very unhappy, very 306 00:25:10.359 --> 00:25:15.039 quickly. The theory is she had a thing one and bought it as a 307 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:21.559 treatment for her pain for her cancer. She was given oxygen in the ambulance 308 00:25:21.559 --> 00:25:26.440 and then also in the er, which it turned it into both the thing 309 00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:30.319 too and thing for When her blood went from you know, warm body to 310 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:36.240 ar room temperature, which is colder than your average room, it super cooled 311 00:25:36.279 --> 00:25:41.079 and became super saturated. It's very close to my pituitary gland theory. It 312 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:47.200 was. It very was, but the way that she got those very specific 313 00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:51.920 chemicals in her body was different. Obviously, it wasn't something just being overproduced 314 00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:56.640 it makes sense to me. I'm guessing the airborne quality to it is because 315 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.119 their oxygen based were to be transported through the respiratory system. Well, yeah, 316 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:07.240 the Thing four, the sulfate one. You know it's used in warfare, 317 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:11.200 or if it hasn't been, it's been talked about we're gonna bustard gas. 318 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:17.119 Yeah, weren't talking that sort of Conceptually, it sucks and notably it 319 00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:22.559 break it'll break down quickly. So they didn't find any proof of Thing four. 320 00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:26.640 They didn't measure any D four, but it could thing four, D 321 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.799 four whatever, but it could have broken down very quickly back into Thing two, 322 00:26:30.119 --> 00:26:33.000 which is the thing they found elevated levels of. It just makes sense 323 00:26:33.039 --> 00:26:36.599 to me too. It wasn't just it was a chemical reaction. It was 324 00:26:36.599 --> 00:26:40.759 an oxygen based chemical reaction, and that's why it would be able to transport 325 00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:48.519 respiratorily. Forgot to mention thing one Dmso when you apply it to yourself topically, 326 00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:51.519 it gives you a bit of an oily sheen, and some people report 327 00:26:51.559 --> 00:26:56.519 that it's kind of garlicky in smell. Oh m, I know that they 328 00:26:56.599 --> 00:27:00.000 just proposed it was like, oh, we think this is what happened. 329 00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:03.319 But yeah, it does make sense. The thing is there are problems with 330 00:27:03.400 --> 00:27:08.839 it, Unfortunately. I think that there's probably problems with any series. Well, 331 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:15.119 yeah, I think that they still obviously would need to take precautions if 332 00:27:15.160 --> 00:27:19.039 these symptoms ever came up again, in case it was some type of new 333 00:27:19.200 --> 00:27:25.720 disease, that very specific set of circumstances, the chances of it happening again. 334 00:27:26.519 --> 00:27:29.880 You're not hearing me argue too much. Just we got to visit the 335 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:34.240 problems, because they do have some problems with them. Problem one really small, 336 00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:38.039 not a hurdle at all. The family claims that she was not using 337 00:27:38.119 --> 00:27:44.839 dmso I have no problem with the idea that either they are trying to protect 338 00:27:44.839 --> 00:27:48.559 her in some way or didn't know because she didn't tell them it. Didn't 339 00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:51.720 want to hurt them to know. I wouldn't tell anyone, especially because if 340 00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.119 if I was doing it for pain, I don't think knowing stage four, 341 00:27:55.200 --> 00:27:57.000 knowing it could be terminal. I don't think i'd want my family to know 342 00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:00.000 how much pain I was in, and I think a lot of people would 343 00:28:00.039 --> 00:28:07.559 feel that way. I would never share that information. Yeah, it's fair. 344 00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:14.880 Yeah, problem to this one I mentioned because it's sort of disproven. 345 00:28:15.720 --> 00:28:21.759 Some people objected because this tear gas I say tear gas. A major symptom 346 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.960 that'll be notable when you do have exposure to this is eye symptoms, tearing 347 00:28:26.079 --> 00:28:32.799 up and burning in the eyes, And initially there weren't any reports of those, 348 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:40.319 like the initial summation of the symptoms didn't mention that, but then a 349 00:28:40.480 --> 00:28:44.519 later one did show that the people who were having at the worst also reported 350 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.799 tearing up eye problems. So that's taken care of. The big problem though, 351 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:56.720 is that the team who proposed this don't know how the chemical reaction would 352 00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.359 work. Like, you know, it's sort of a sure because we've got 353 00:29:00.359 --> 00:29:04.599 more oxygen. Something could happen and they mixed together and now they're all attached. 354 00:29:06.440 --> 00:29:11.680 It's like medical physics literally can't tell you why it happens exactly, but 355 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:17.480 this is definitely what happens and how it would happen if we could prove that. 356 00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:22.759 And that's what theoretical physics is before it turns into real physics. That 357 00:29:22.319 --> 00:29:26.079 is basically what it is. But then you have scientists experts in the field 358 00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:30.440 who say, yeah, that's totally possible and absolutely not, that's impossible, 359 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:37.079 And that's where we get no scientific consensus pusso you know, there are problems 360 00:29:37.079 --> 00:29:42.680 with this theory. What could be some other explanations the family Gloria's family blames 361 00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:48.559 the hospital and believes in the cover up theory. Don't they're trying to push 362 00:29:48.559 --> 00:29:51.960 it up on Gloria, But it was actually something the hospital did in fucked 363 00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:56.000 up. This I got from fucking BuzzFeed Unsolved because I watched it after I 364 00:29:56.039 --> 00:30:00.119 was done researching it. Because apparently they did an episode. They're supposedly reports 365 00:30:00.160 --> 00:30:06.680 that this hospital had issues in ninety one and again in ninety two with chemical 366 00:30:06.680 --> 00:30:11.319 toxins like sewer gas type of problems. The sister said something to the effect 367 00:30:11.359 --> 00:30:15.519 of, I believe if she hadn't come to that hospital, she'd still be 368 00:30:15.559 --> 00:30:18.839 alive. I couldn't find any sources that actually said this hospital definitely got dinged 369 00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:25.279 for those things. But you know, it's not impossible. I'm not against 370 00:30:25.400 --> 00:30:29.000 the idea of a cover up. I also do like this chemistry because it 371 00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:32.480 sounds like it makes a lot of sense. All but one of the symptoms 372 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:36.279 on the list that people experience was on the symptoms of this nerve gas, 373 00:30:36.319 --> 00:30:38.839 and it does make sense to me too. It makes sense to me that 374 00:30:38.920 --> 00:30:42.920 like the ones with the worst symptoms would have the eye symptoms. Like the 375 00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:48.559 load matters, like how much you're being exposed whatever it is matters like now 376 00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:52.039 we would say like viral load, and they were the ones that reported the 377 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:55.319 smelling of it. It is a little weird because the one who was in 378 00:30:55.319 --> 00:30:59.880 the hospital for ten days, not two weeks, she wasn't actually attending glory. 379 00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:03.480 She just helped move the body. Those gashes could still could have been 380 00:31:03.480 --> 00:31:07.039 released, and she was close to the body. Yeah, yeah, it 381 00:31:07.119 --> 00:31:10.799 could have been. It's very confusing and weird, and she was probably exposed 382 00:31:10.799 --> 00:31:15.880 for longer in the elevator with it in clothes, so she was potentially in 383 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:22.160 the elevator next to the body and closed spaces for a longer period of word 384 00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:26.279 coming and going so quickly, one singular, one of the other doctors that 385 00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.400 was in the room. Yeah, even COVID is you know, directly reflect 386 00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:34.640 aflected like that, with exposure time being a matter of you know, work 387 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.839 environment and stuff. Yeah, yeah, if you walk past somebody at the 388 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:42.720 grocery store that has COVID, it's not likely, But if you're sitting and 389 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:48.079 chatting with somebody for fifteen minutes. It's very likely other things proposed by the 390 00:31:48.119 --> 00:31:55.079 internet, so the best ones. Yeah, yeah, someone in the hospital 391 00:31:55.559 --> 00:32:01.480 is smuggling the meth precursors. Not true myth in oxygen bags and those oxygen 392 00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:07.319 bags get mixed in with the real oxygen bags. No evidence for that one 393 00:32:07.359 --> 00:32:14.599 that I've found convoluted. But also I understand how somebody somehow gotten the symptoms 394 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.680 of the meth precursor are similar to the symptoms, but it helps to have, 395 00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:23.519 you know, documented cases of this precursor meth being smuckled. Also, 396 00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:30.359 Reddit proposed arsenic. She was treating herself with arsenic, and those symptoms sort 397 00:32:30.359 --> 00:32:34.839 of match. None of the things seem to have mentioned elevated arsenic. I 398 00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:37.039 feel like an autopsy or two might have mentioned it. My thing is like 399 00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:46.960 State Health Department also tested you said the name. You know what I'm saying, 400 00:32:47.000 --> 00:32:52.000 though, Like I just feel feel like unless the CDC or something is 401 00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:54.559 doing the autopsy, that they might just be like, oh, this is 402 00:32:54.599 --> 00:33:00.720 what our lab our standard test is. I'm sure at some point point that 403 00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:04.680 in the later test. But also how long what is the life of arsenic 404 00:33:04.680 --> 00:33:07.599 in the bloodstream after like a month and a half when they do like the 405 00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:12.279 last autopsies, like did it start? The first autopsy was done by the 406 00:33:12.440 --> 00:33:15.480 local health department, the second by the state, and the third by this 407 00:33:15.839 --> 00:33:20.960 you know, the CDC or whatever. By time you get to that higher 408 00:33:21.039 --> 00:33:24.079 up and you keep going higher up, are certain things going to still be 409 00:33:24.200 --> 00:33:29.559 in the blood stream? And the definitely the second time when I'm jaded as 410 00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:34.720 fuck, I don't trust anybody to run a regular Why would you have any 411 00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:39.119 particular feelings on that specifically, I don't know. It's weird. And then 412 00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:43.599 one thing I want to mention because I don't have any sources, but I 413 00:33:43.640 --> 00:33:46.480 don't want to just throw this out because it comes from the family. But 414 00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.960 supposedly when they hired they of course this is not supposedly they hired a corridor 415 00:33:52.039 --> 00:33:58.559 privately to do an autopsy, but as you absolutely should. But when he 416 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:05.000 did it, he could come to any conclusions because her organs were mishandled and 417 00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:09.920 contaminated with vehicle matter, and also her heart was missed. I said, 418 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:17.760 I don't trust anyone to actually do their job, even if they're dealing with 419 00:34:17.920 --> 00:34:24.239 blood, a debt body, a murderer, life and death scenario. Do 420 00:34:24.320 --> 00:34:31.360 not trust anyone see their problems. Is this a theme on this show that 421 00:34:31.559 --> 00:34:38.679 autopsies are useless? People are useless? Scientific method is useful if implemented correctly, 422 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.719 but when used as a as prescribed does not ever happen. That's weird. 423 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:53.480 The heart missing bit and weird is wild also unsubstantiated, but BuzzFeed said 424 00:34:53.519 --> 00:35:00.679 it the literal syringe that was, you know, the guilty party loss of 425 00:35:00.679 --> 00:35:04.079 course. Oh like they just threw it in a sharp's container after they used 426 00:35:04.079 --> 00:35:08.880 it and there was probably a million used needles. I'm going with she was 427 00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:14.679 doing something weird remedy wise or something, whether it's the oil thing or whether 428 00:35:14.719 --> 00:35:20.039 it's whatever it could have been. But there's definitely some malpractice here. There's 429 00:35:20.039 --> 00:35:22.760 just too much weird stuff. I love a theory that includes the science and 430 00:35:22.920 --> 00:35:27.760 the conspiracy. The reason that I feel like it has to do with the 431 00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:32.639 body just personally is how immediate it was after these people started treating her specifically, 432 00:35:34.079 --> 00:35:37.000 and that people are coming in and going out of the room at different 433 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:40.519 times. If it would have been like a contaminant in the room, then 434 00:35:40.559 --> 00:35:45.880 the woman that took her body probably wouldn't have been as exposed. If she 435 00:35:46.000 --> 00:35:51.360 wasn't in the room and people that enter that room later it feels like also, 436 00:35:51.239 --> 00:35:58.440 but it checks out with oxygen being the factor the increase of oxygen throughout 437 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.400 the period. If you've heard any other compelling theories about the Toxic Lady, 438 00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:07.239 please let us know about them, because we're very interested in them, and 439 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:12.559 we do mean compelling compelling. Also, while you're at it, you can 440 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.880 send us anything that you would find compelling for us to take a look at. 441 00:36:17.239 --> 00:36:21.079 You can do it by sending it to the Deep Dark Truth Podcast at 442 00:36:21.119 --> 00:36:24.639 gmail dot com or texting it to the tipline at three one three three four 443 00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:31.800 one. Until next time, I'm Mary Sanderson Sarah Sanderson. You just listen 444 00:36:32.159 --> 00:36:38.000 to the Deep Dark Truth podcast. See you next time, and remember your 445 00:36:38.119 --> 00:36:40.840 local cryptids want to meet you.