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Welcome to Open Minds Radio with Alejandro
Rojas. Open Minds Radio is a UFO

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news authority presenting evidence and the latest
news regarding the UFO phenomena. Here's your

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host, Alejandro Roja. Thank you, mister Bob Dean. This is Alejandro

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Rojas with Open Minds Radio, the
fourth most popular radio program out of all

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of them on blog Talk. That's
what we used to broadcast our podcast,

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fourth out of something like over forty
thousand shows. And I know I make

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up large numbers all the time,
but it is really forty thousand. If

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I was being silly and making it
up, I would have said we were

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fourced out of sixteen trillion. And
if blog Talk had sixteen trillion radio programs,

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we probably still would be for us
because we are that good. Thank

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you for joining us. And we're
only that good because of all of our

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wonderful listeners, because they're so inspiring, all the nice notes that you guys

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send us and everything. I'm very
very happy that you guys like the show

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and we do this for you to
get the information out. And we have

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an incredible guest today with just a
ton of information, and that is James

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Mostly maybe some of you haven't heard
of him, but he's actually been into

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UFOs for decades and decades and decades. At the beginning of our interview,

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I asked him about nineteen forty seven, he was around then when all of

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this started, and he says,
well, I'm not what's a new upologist,

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and which he wasn't, but he
was around and to hear the stories,

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and that in itself is pretty astonishing. I think, you know,

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there's not many people who can tell
you. Oh yeah, I remember when

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Kenneth Arnold saw thoseos. So very
interesting guy. He started a magazine in

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the fifties with some friends called Saucer
News, which is kind of was kind

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of more along the lines of open
Minds, very serious and everything. But

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we'll talk about his evolution and how
he evolved into in the late seventies to

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start up his own kind of newsletter
called Saucer Smeir and Saucer Smir. He's

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one of these guys. There's only
like one other person, well, no,

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there's a couple other people. Nancy
Talbot's kind of like this. She's

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more online. But doctor Leo Sprinkle, who we've had on the show,

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one of the original he's been around
for decades, one of the original abduction

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researchers, a psychologist. He isn't
online at all. You know, they

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never made the switch to the Internet
and to computers. And that's the same

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with James Moseley. So if you
want to get Saucer Smeir, you actually

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have to send him, you know, a check or a love donation.

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He calls sarcastically. He'll see.
He's kind of a funny guy, and

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he'll send you his newsletter that's printed
out. He types it out, prints

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it and sends it to you.
So it is old school. So we'll

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talk to Mosley about the years and
years of UFOs and mostly around the fifties,

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and what it was like back then
and how he got started and how

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he got started with Saucer Schmir.
So that's coming up very exciting. He's

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a great guy, and it's invaluable
to be able to talk to these people

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who are around back then because there's
not many left and they unfortunately, lots

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of the people he refers to that
he works with his colleagues, for instance,

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are not around anymore. A couple
of notes. Our last guest,

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mister Greg Bishop from UFO mystic dot
Com a great interview, and it's really

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fun talking about Benawitz and Dolce and
all of that stuff. He's going to

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be at a conference that is actually
being held put on by Ohaio Kawa,

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who used to run a conference in
Dolce, but now he's moved it to

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Albertquerque, which is a wise move
because Albuquerque's a bigger place and I love

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New Mexico. I like talking about
Albuquerque because I miss it. Incredible food

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if you like Mexican food, Amazing
stuff at all the restaurants here. Anyways,

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his conference is called wake Up Now. It's kind of more of a

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conspiracy UFO type thing, but Greg
Bishop is going to be there and you

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can find out more about that at
wakeupnowconference dot com. And I don't think,

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yeah, we don't have any open
minds people speaking there. Forget what

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I just said, just kidding.
It should be good. We're going to

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have people actually there selling some stuff
if you want to buy some T shirts

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and stuff, and you're going to
be there also some bad news Contact in

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the Desert. I was going to
be out there talking about contact ease and

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giant Rock, which is some of
what James Mosley is going to be talking

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about some of the stuff from the
fifties. That was kind of fun.

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But unfortunately, alas the Contact in
the Desert is no longer. Unfortunately,

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some of the people organizing it had
some personal things coming up and they're not

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going to be able to put that
on anymore. That was going to be

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held by mouf on La. However, we still have in Fresno the Mofon

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Symposium coming up in July, so
that'll be a lot of fun. Irvine,

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Irvine, Oh, I said,
Fresno, Irvine. And then finally,

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who was that? Did you hear
that? Noise? I said,

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Irvine. We'll see if we can
figure that out in a little bit.

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The third conference, the conference that
I was going to go talk at,

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gets canceled, but the conference that
Antonio and Michael are going to go talk

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at, it has not been canceled
yet hopefully it won't be. But that

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is the Arizona UFO Sidings first annual
Kingman Conference. So we haven't talked a

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whole lot about that, but there
are rumors. We've talked about the Frank

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Scully book quite a bit, and
in fact, James Mosley here again we

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talked about Frank Scully because a lot
of the crashes that supposedly have it happened

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came from Frank Scully's book and including
the Kingmen crash, so supposedly there's a

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UFO crash back then. And now
they've started up the first annual Kingman Conference

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that's gonna be May sixth through the
ninth, and choni Ol Khuneas and Michael

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Shratt of Open Minds will be there
and you can find out more about that

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at Arizona ufosidings dot com Arizona UFO
sidings dot com. You know another thing

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that you're gonna find. You'll find
some information on some of this stuff at

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our website, but more importantly and
more exciting, you're gonna find news the

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daily UFO headlines, because there are
UFOs in the news all over the world

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all the time, and we have
a specialist who stays on top of this

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stuff every day. This guy is
a flipin' genius. That is the little

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voice that we heard a little while
ago, which is Jason McClellan. Jason,

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are you here? I am mister
Alejandro. Greetings and hello everyone.

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This is your Open Minds news brief
from Monday, April twenty fifth, twenty

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eleven, a recent video shows what
appeared to be a dead extraterrestrial partially buried

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in the Siberian snow. Two people
walking near Riku, Russia, allegedly noticed

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the body and recorded it with a
video camera. According to The Daily Mail,

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one of the witnesses stated, we
couldn't believe it when we saw it.

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The Daily Mail also pointed out that
the area surrounding the location of this

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body is a UFO hotspot where dozens
of sightings are reported every year. The

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Telegraph, the Daily Mail and other
media outlets were sure to point out that

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many had dismissed the dead alien video
as an elaborate hoax from the very start.

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But in response to the video,
the Los Angeles Times and I have

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to give the Times credit here.
They don't usually respond most of the mainstream

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media jumps on these videos in they're
not very careful with the with holding back

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their excitement. But the Los Angeles
Times actually carefully and wisely stated we cannot

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confirm any of these claims that this
is real. It may very well be

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a hoax. However, it is
important to note that more than one million

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people have watched the video on YouTube, real or not people are watching.

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That's what the Los Angeles Times said. But last week news reports submerged,

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announcing that two team boys did in
fact create the alien in the video.

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A spokesman from the Russian Interior Ministry
confirmed that they had found the body in

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the house of one of the boys, and, as the spokesman described,

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it was lying under his bed and
examination of it revealed it had been made

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of breadcrumbs, which are covered in
chicken skin. Oh and you have a

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picture there. I've never nasty seen
that picture. Nasty. Yeah, that's

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gross. Somebody's left over dinner.
Well, I think I heard a story

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where the cops to someone said they
thought it might be a baby, right,

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dead baby. So the cops went
over and said, hey, you

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guys got a dead baby here in
the They freaked. They're like, no,

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no, it's not a baby,
it's a chicken. Yeah, that's

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why the cops were even looking into
it. And they were sort of door

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to door and found these teen boys
hoaxters. It looks kind of weird,

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and you could you see that not
frequently, but the chicken skin has been

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used before SKINNEVENI and Scabby Engross and
the whole cryptozoological realm. Lots of dead

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animal parts and bones are used to
say that they're cryptozoological animals, right,

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yeah, and who knows why people
do this. I don't know why these

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boys did it, but to get
a million hits, well yeah, but

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I don't know what that's going to
do for them in Siberia. There's not

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a whole lot going on in Siberia. But can tell people how cool you

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are you got a million hits?
Well, and it does Actually with their

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channel, anything they're going to post
is going to get hundreds of thousands of

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hits probably from here on out.
Yeah, when they they are really stupid

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and then it'll die. Ah,
but at least they've got some YouTube power

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right now. I hope they use
it wisely. Well, shame on them.

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Shame on them for shame you little
suns again to like those hoaxters.

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Yeah, come on, you know
the news. A professor from the University

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of Missouri, Columbia wants Congress to
look into the UFO issue. According to

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AOL News, Bill Wickersham has called
for open secrecy free US congressional hearings on

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the ufoet matter to support his request. The adjunct professor of Peace Studies cites

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the nineteen ninety nine Cometa Report.
A thirteen member committee in France made up

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of retired generals, scientists and space
experts created this report which studied five hundred

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UFO sidings from around the world,
and this report concluded that some of the

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UFO cases possibly had other worldly sources. But given the current political climate,

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Wickersham told AOL News that he does
not think a congressional hearing on UFOs has

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much of a chance of happening right
now. He went on to say,

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and what's more, look at what
happened to Dennis Kassinich. The giggle factor,

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the ridicule, the ignorance, the
apathy, denial, all these things

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that's around this issue. It takes
a lot of guts for a politician to

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speak out on UFOs. Most politicians
run from it, yep, and they

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do. They run far and fast. So I don't I don't know how

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much of a chance we have of
a US congressional hearing on UFOs anytime soon.

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But just s if something big happens, who was it? Oh?

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It is just looking at stuff and
dan akroy down, OK. It's like,

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you know, one of these days
a UFO is going to buy over

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a stadium or something, and then
these guys will not be able to ignore

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it. And I think he's right, right, and we are having bigger

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stories. I mean, they're not
necessarily any bigger than what happened, that's

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what has happened in the past,
but they're getting a lot more attension.

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Yeah, the mainstream media is covering
a lot of these stories that come out

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and it spreads like wild, ignoring
them. So who knows, You're we

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were onto something there. We might
have one of these issueses that's considered to

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be a bigger issue that forces people
to pay attention. Yep, it's going

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to happen, hope. So you
know the news lots of different stories have

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been circulating through the media in the
past weeks. Is the result of the

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FBI launching the Vault on their website. I like saying the vault. It

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sounds menacing, but the vault makes
it easy for people to browse through select

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FBI files. One story that seemed
to be popular last week was John F.

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Kennedy and his supposed interest in UFOs. A history teacher named William Lester

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recently wrote a book on the subject
called a Celebration of Freedom JFK and the

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New Frontier for the book Lester reference
previously classified documents he obtained through Freedom of

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Information Act requests. Two of these
documents were allegedly written by Kennedy just ten

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days before his assassination, one of
which asked the CIA for UFO information.

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Yeah, this has got big,
big buzz last week, but it's nothing

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new. Yeah, these files were
not new, and the people said they

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were new when they were not.
And they were actually released in the seventies

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from the hard work of Bruce mcabee
who was an optical physicist for the Navy,

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actually doctor Bruce mcabee who got these
out in the late seventies or mid

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seventies. And so they've been out
for a while there. They're not anything

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new, that is correct. But
now they're out again, and now people

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are saying that, you know,
NSA has new documents out, which is

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not the case either. They're referring
to old files. But I don't give

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a flip about the FBI. I
don't give a flip about the NSA.

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I don't give a flip about anything
or near their name. The band Alejandro

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Rojas, the Butthole Surfers that song. Sorry, but they said the bad

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word. They didn't say flip.
That's okay, as you know, I

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don't say bad words, and you
changed it for radio. Yeah, and

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that's how I sing it too,
because I like to sing that song sometimes

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for fun and I use flip.
Good work. But it is interesting since

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the vault, you know, And
it seems lately the media is Yeah,

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though they seem to get excited by
conspiracy and you would think that reputable media

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outlets wouldn't, but they're launching onto
a lot of these stories that are total

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conspiracy. And it might be a
trend in media because these sensational stories are

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growing. You have papers like The
Sun, which is a complete tabloid over

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sensationalizes everything is often not accurate,
but they're the biggest paper in the UK.

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So as American media starting to do
that to sensationalize and become more tabloid

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to get more ratings, I think, So, what are the biggest stories

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these days, Charlie Sheen, Lindsay
Lohan. You know, it's all of

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this kind of stuff. The royal
wedding. The royal wedding, that's the

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big news right now. When you
mentioned the Sun, so I'm thinking about

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the royal wedding. Yeah, that
reminds me of White wedding, Billy Idol.

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All right, we'll move on.
Alejandro. Here's a story, and

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and I don't know what to take
from this story. My emotions are being

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played with here. But we talked
about this week after week about how we

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feel we should go back to the
Moon. We want to get back to

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the Moon, but all these missions
that are brought up are either going to

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asteroids or trying to get to Mars, putting the Moon aside. Well,

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apparently we are going back to the
Moon, right, The National Journal reported

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last week the Congress passed a twenty
eleven spending bill that will allow NASA's Constellation

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program to move forward with plans for
a manned lunar mission. The Orion space

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castle that NASA plans to use for
the man lunar mission was unveiled last month,

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so we'll see. I mean,
this is just one report, but

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supposedly the manned Moon mission is back
on the charts at least, well I

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know they were kind of working on
it where they're using essentially old stuff though,

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So if we go to the Moon, what we're going to see is

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rocket taking up capsules, the same
capsules we went to the Moon with,

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or well not the same shape,
the same look, the same They're gonna

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parachute down in the sky and land
in the ocean, just like before.

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So we're going old school, which
I guess is in two bad because we

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weren't done with that and it's cheap
or whatever. But yeah, total old

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school. So they're they're really doing
all of this stuff and hopefully going back

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to the Moon, which makes it
just makes sense to make a base on

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the Moon, right then go to
Mars. But it is kind of embarrassing

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for us, and it gives us
a bad face to the extraterrestrials on the

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Moon. Yeah, because they're going
to see us rolling up in our nineteen

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fifties car and they're gonna laugh at
us. Well, because you guys haven't

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progressed at all. Yeah, and
you know you were here, you left,

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now you're back. We're messing with
our emotions. Yeah, and we're

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not showing up in anything new and
fancy. It's the same old stuff.

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Hopefully they've got something new up their
sleeve. Yeah, but you know what,

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we didn't use that old stuff that
was really cool that much, Right,

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because I mean the rover, the
moon rover, and that was cool

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stuff, right, So maybe we'll
pull my fingers across it. We do

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go back to the moon. That
makes so much sense, and maybe that

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makes it even closer to people being
able to go to the Moon, you

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know, recreational wise. Right.
Is that a company that NASA is most

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likely going to use for that is
SpaceX in the SpaceX rockets, and SpaceX

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is working to help propel space tourism
as well. So we can go there,

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to you, my friend, and
we'll go there and see what these

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NaSTA guys are doing. In other
NASA news, NASA scientists recently discovered an

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underground dry ice lake containing more carbon
dioxide than was originally thought to exist.

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The underground dry ice deposit is roughly
the size of Lake Superior. Scientists suspect

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that some of this carbon dioxide was
once in Mars' atmosphere, making it denser.

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Scientists were able to locate the dry
ice lake by using ground penetrating radar

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from the Mars Reconnaissance orbiter. Wow, so they found these dry ice lakes

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before on Mars, but this one's
the biggest. This is just like the

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the movie that made the guy Governor
Schwarzenheger. I think it was because of

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this this movie. That's why he's
the one where he goes to Mars and

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well, you don't know if you
put those heaters. Oh yeah, that's

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in question. They put those heaters
in the carbon dioxide lake, which go

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into the atmosphere and which changes the
atmosphere when his face, he's all in

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his face is gonna explode, and
luckily the carbon dioxi I had gotten the

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sky enough and he saved his life. I think they're actually remaking that movie

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too, which is a shame,
is making a lot of his movies.

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I always forget the name of that
movie. It's actually total recall, Yes,

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total recall. They're they're remaking some
of the The Conan, the Barbarian,

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You're going back. I don't think
you could remake a Ernold swartzneg Yeah,

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there's lots of If you do something
new, people come on, people

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are out of ida. Nobody has
an rid thought. I could come up

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with some good ideas. I always
do drive into work. I'm always thinking

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that'd be a great movie and be
crazy and fun and iom too. But

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it's a prerequisite to be in Hollywood, you can't have an original idea.

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Yeah, I think you're right.
But you know, this whole terror forming

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the Moon type of stuff, it's
kind of it's interesting that, you know,

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these sci fi type of things come
up in real life. More chances

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00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.160
for life in Mars. Well,
we'll see more of that. Yep.

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Because we are the future, Alejandro, I think we've reached the future that

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was portrayed in those movies. Whitney
Houston said the children are of the future,

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and where the children that have now
grown up? Then she was right.

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Yep, excellent. Here's something I
wanted to bring up. Susanne Taylor,

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who've had as a guest on the
show before. She has a movie

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called What on Earth, received a
nice little write up in The New York

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Times last week. The movie that
explores the crop circle phenomenon premiered on Friday

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at New York's Squad Cinema and it's
running through this week till Thursday. I

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believe. Yeah, pretty cool,
New York Times. I was so shocked.

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That was wonderful to see that.
Yeah, it's good to see she

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got it. And it was a
you know, they were cool about it

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too. They weren't making fun of
her the movie, right, Yeah,

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those ride ups are they're supposed to
be informational, but most of the time

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they go into opinion too, and
they kind of especially with UFOs. Absolutely,

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but they actually did a very nice
job with it, and it's cool

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to see that she's got it running
in a theater in New York for a

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week, so hopefully has received Well, it's a good movie. So we

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talked about the movie in our Crop
Circle issue and in our last one until

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I did a review. That's right, But that Crop Circle issue we had

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was phenomenal. It was great.
I liked it. Pretty big visual and

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Irish astronomer claims to have successfully tracked
UFOs as they fly around the Earth.

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Amon Asbro has researched UFOs for the
past twenty years, and not only has

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he seen UFOs, but through his
observations Andsbrow has concluded that they follow to

286
00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:06.559
find flight paths around the Earth.
He has a camera array consisting of eleven

287
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:11.440
different cameras set up in his hometown
of Boil that have enabled him to conduct

288
00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:15.039
his research. This array monitors the
entire sky all day and all night,

289
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recording anything that moves. The compilation
of data from these cameras is what led

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Andsbro to his conclusion that UFOs are
circling the Earth. According to IrishCentral dot

291
00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:29.839
Com, Asbro explains, when you
take all that data and apply it to

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this theory, we have found that
it fits within the computerized time graphs and

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that we can predict when future sightings
will occur. We have found that it

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has happened in Boyle. Andsbro,
who is a member of a group called

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O SETI, which is the Optical
Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence, wants to establish

296
00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:52.079
a UFO center in his hometown of
boil citing the potential for tourism. I

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00:21:52.160 --> 00:21:57.440
feel derelict in my duties because I've
seen this headline, but I hadn't read

298
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this story and checked up on it, and it sounds so interesting, and

299
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:04.480
now that you're talking about it,
I feel bad I didn't research it some

300
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more. So, what do you
think since you've looked into it. I'm

301
00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.599
not sure you know he's got this
camera array. I haven't seen the data,

302
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his actual data. But the first
thing that pops into my mind would

303
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be satellites. Yeah, something following
a defined path that's always coming around at

304
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the same time. And the hard
part is is there's no doubt. Well,

305
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you know, our country doesn't like
to follow established rules, so we're

306
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going to have satellites wherever we want
to have satellites, and nobody's going to

307
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stop us. Not that I agree
that we don't follow with these groups,

308
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but that's kind of the American way, right. So yeah, he would

309
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not know about secret satellites. Not
only that are our secret Air Force space

310
00:22:45.440 --> 00:22:49.720
plane that was flying around the own
manned thing that we just found out about.

311
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As far as the public, so
there's a lot of stuff up there,

312
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:56.519
true that could be ours or Earth. However, somebody who's got this

313
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huge array and I don't know what
a situation is, but I've seen pictures

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00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:04.599
with him having acts. I don't
know if they're his, but he has

315
00:23:04.640 --> 00:23:07.799
access to some pretty powerful telescopes.
He's an astronomer. I would think an

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00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:11.599
astronomer would know the difference between,
you know, what a satellite looks like

317
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:17.640
and what something unknown he providing this
footage, is any of it? I

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00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:21.119
wonder if he's seeing any Zingen and
Zagen and Zooman and right, I don't

319
00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:23.200
know. I like to contact him
and find out more information, because there

320
00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:27.279
wasn't any information provided other than the
fact that he's charted all this and been

321
00:23:27.319 --> 00:23:30.599
able to figure it out. How
to contact him. Yeah, I think

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so, because again, an astronomer
should know what a satellite. We'll try

323
00:23:34.039 --> 00:23:37.400
to get him on. So you
know, he is an astronomer, and

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00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.279
he's pretty confident that what he's saying
is UFOs and he's able to track them

325
00:23:41.319 --> 00:23:47.279
and predict them, right, So
cool stuff. Yeah. In other news

326
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:52.400
related to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence, the SETI Institute has been scanning the

327
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:56.079
skuys for more than fifty years,
searching for evidence of extraterrestrial life by using

328
00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:02.799
radio telescopes, but funding issues have
put their on hold. According to Discovery

329
00:24:02.839 --> 00:24:07.839
News, budget cutbacks by two of
seti's key donors, the State of California

330
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and the National Science Foundation, have
forced the institute to suspend the operations of

331
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.960
its Allan telescope array in California.
The Allen telescope arrays operations have been suspended

332
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:22.799
since April fifteenth, and its future
is uncertain. Well, I think I

333
00:24:22.920 --> 00:24:26.000
mentioned and this is fun because I
hope that they printed that. San Jose

334
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:30.920
Mercury called and I got to have
some input, and she was shocked.

335
00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:34.400
By what I said, and disappoint
it because you know, and I think

336
00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.720
you might feel the same way.
I love the SET, you guys,

337
00:24:37.720 --> 00:24:41.599
it's great that they're searching for extraterrestrial
intelligence. It's wonderful, but the method

338
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:47.480
they're doing it seems to be so
silly to me, using technology we use

339
00:24:47.640 --> 00:24:52.519
to listen to signals of the type
of technology we use, when these civilizations

340
00:24:52.279 --> 00:24:56.160
probably are, I mean, they're
alien by definition using things that we could

341
00:24:56.319 --> 00:25:00.039
conceive. So I think it's just. And plus with the evidence of of

342
00:25:00.079 --> 00:25:06.680
course, as being UFO investigators,
there's evidence that they there is visitation or

343
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:10.920
something flying around, and they could
be doing like this astronomer helping him out

344
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.759
right his telescopes to take pictures of
these things flying around. That's a better

345
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:18.319
use of the money than these telescopes. So to be honest, when I

346
00:25:18.359 --> 00:25:22.599
first saw this headline that said that, I forget the headline I read it

347
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:29.160
was something like SETI I don't remember, but what I thought the article was

348
00:25:29.200 --> 00:25:33.200
going to be is that they were
stopping or putting a hold on their using

349
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:37.920
radio telescopes and they were going to
focus on something else, on some other

350
00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:41.720
method. And I was excited.
Yeah, but yeah, right, and

351
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.640
you know they do other things and
they don't just use this Allen telescope array

352
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.000
as far as as far as I
know, they do other things. So

353
00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:55.559
I don't think SETI is completely on
hold. It's just this array of radio

354
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.079
telescopes. Well, now they have
time. Because one thing, I really

355
00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.480
like Shasak. He's really funny and
witty and he's great to inspire people to

356
00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:07.799
get into science. But he's debunking
gets a little too far, and especially

357
00:26:07.799 --> 00:26:11.440
even recently, I read him say
read him saying UFOs do this, and

358
00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:18.160
UFO people who see UFOs always say
they're doing this or that he doesn't research

359
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.000
that. How would he know?
And it's very it's unprofessional of him to

360
00:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.000
make those sorts of claims when he
doesn't research. He should research it,

361
00:26:26.400 --> 00:26:29.200
and then you know he would be
able to say something. I know,

362
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:34.079
for instance, Peter Sturck, a
doctor of an astronomy, who he should

363
00:26:34.119 --> 00:26:37.359
have read his book. But I've
talked to him, he says he hasn't

364
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:41.599
read that book. Come on,
that's where you begin as an astronomer researching

365
00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:45.319
UFOs. If you're going to talk
about UFOs, research him first. So

366
00:26:45.400 --> 00:26:51.640
that debunking I hope his radio show
gets taken off the air. It's a

367
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:56.920
good thing to research. Yeah,
come on, well, hopefully things come

368
00:26:56.960 --> 00:27:03.039
through for SETI and they use this
opportunity to come up with something. So

369
00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:07.160
this is really funny. Dan Oky, longtime listener, cool dude. I

370
00:27:07.319 --> 00:27:10.599
refort him. He's a funny guy. He says. I wonder if ants

371
00:27:10.599 --> 00:27:14.839
have a SETI program too, But
we just don't get it. I like

372
00:27:14.920 --> 00:27:18.759
that. Yeah, we're not getting
the ant signal. Excellent. Well,

373
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.440
Allehundra. That is it for the
news for today. Okay, thank you.

374
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.079
Sure to check out these stories and
more at openminds dot tv, your

375
00:27:25.079 --> 00:27:29.400
source for UFO related news. I'm
your Open Minds News correspondent Jason McClellan,

376
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:33.720
and you've been briefed back to you, Alejandro. Thank you, Jason.

377
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:37.799
You know what the ant should try. The ants should try Twitter. I

378
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.480
gotta mention my Twitter because I've been
Twitter crazy lately. Uh. If you

379
00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:49.319
want to get my personal Twitter,
it's Paranormal rpt R, Paranormal Reporter Paranormal

380
00:27:49.720 --> 00:27:53.319
rpt R And of course open Minds
has Twitter also, so if you're a

381
00:27:53.319 --> 00:27:57.000
Twitter dude, you got lots of
couple of people to add there if you

382
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:03.039
haven't already, a couple of other
stories that we have on the website before

383
00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.480
we get to mister Mosley in two
minutes. Here is oh, look,

384
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.319
somebody posted the link. Thank you. We have some more UFOK spiles revealed.

385
00:28:11.400 --> 00:28:19.640
So those are Michael Schratt doing his
taking some UFO sidings from popular references

386
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:25.000
to UFO sidings and then making some
graphics of those so you can see what

387
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:27.960
they're like. So that's really cool. And we do have another story on

388
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:34.880
a pub. It's they consider themselves
crop Circle Headquarters and they developed an alien

389
00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.720
abduction ale. They also have a
crappy ale about crop circles. So essentially

390
00:28:41.000 --> 00:28:45.200
they tell people when you're in town
researching crop circles, you know, and

391
00:28:45.279 --> 00:28:48.200
you're out all night or you're out
in the fields checking them out, to

392
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:52.559
come have a brew at their pubs. So their site is really funny and

393
00:28:52.599 --> 00:28:56.640
I have a story all about that. It's kind of cool and it makes

394
00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.960
you think, wow, how awesome
would that be to go visit and see

395
00:29:00.960 --> 00:29:04.200
some crop circles and then go hang
out at this pub? And funny enough,

396
00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:11.079
I recognized a picture of it because
it was they shot there a TV

397
00:29:11.160 --> 00:29:15.279
show called Inspector Morris on PBS,
which I had watched, so it was

398
00:29:15.359 --> 00:29:18.640
kind of funny when I saw that
it was someplace I recognized. Anyway,

399
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:22.160
check out this story and hopefully one
day we'll all be able to check out

400
00:29:22.160 --> 00:29:27.599
some crop circles at the pub out
there. The barge in is what it's

401
00:29:27.640 --> 00:29:34.880
called. But our interview, without
further interruption, let's get to James Mosley

402
00:29:34.960 --> 00:29:40.599
because it's kind of a long interview
and I'm really excited about having this interview

403
00:29:40.599 --> 00:29:48.000
with him, and let's go ahead
and bring on James Moseley of saussersmar Thank

404
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:56.039
you so much for being on the
show again. So and unfortunately, yeah,

405
00:29:56.079 --> 00:29:59.720
we had a did this interview,
we had a glitch, so we're

406
00:29:59.759 --> 00:30:04.119
doing a second time. But thank
you so much. We've got James mostly

407
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:11.799
on the phone. Who does that
the saucersmer and you have been in euphology

408
00:30:11.880 --> 00:30:15.200
essentially since the get go, since
nineteen forty seven, when kind of the

409
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:22.079
modern age of upology began. Well, I wasn't really in it that early,

410
00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:27.920
but I heard about the Kenneth Arnold
siding in nineteen forty seven. I

411
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:33.039
was in high school at the time, and I remember reading about it,

412
00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:38.319
and that was when officially, at
least the modern flying saucer era began.

413
00:30:40.319 --> 00:30:47.680
Kenneth Arnold was a private pilot flying
in the vicinity of Mount Rainier and he

414
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:55.039
saw at some distance over the mountains
a group of nine leaming objects. I'll

415
00:30:55.079 --> 00:31:00.359
always remember that phrase. And they
were going along in this out of a

416
00:31:00.359 --> 00:31:07.119
loose formation and moving quite rapidly.
I can't remember all the details now,

417
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:11.240
but anyway, the interesting thing is
that when he landed his plane and was

418
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:18.640
eventually interviewed by the press, they
asked him what these ougouists look like,

419
00:31:19.240 --> 00:31:25.440
and he said they looked like saucers
skimming over water, and that's how the

420
00:31:25.559 --> 00:31:30.039
term saucer began. But the interesting
thing was they were not what we call

421
00:31:30.200 --> 00:31:37.119
saucer shaped, the familiar shape that
we know about now. They were shaped

422
00:31:37.319 --> 00:31:41.880
more like the heel of a shoe
or something. So they were acting like

423
00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:48.880
saucers spinning or floating over water,
but they were not shaped that way.

424
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:53.000
So anyway, that's how the era
began. I didn't really get into it

425
00:31:53.359 --> 00:32:05.200
in any significant way until lengthen fifty
three, the era of the groups studying

426
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:14.240
saucers as a group activity and the
era of the UFO zines and all that

427
00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:17.880
kind of thing didn't begin until about
nineteen fifty two, so I considered that

428
00:32:19.000 --> 00:32:22.440
I got in about a year late, which is too bad, right,

429
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:27.279
Yeah, And it's still right in
the heat of it, right when things

430
00:32:27.279 --> 00:32:30.039
started. Now, another siding that
hit the press really big, that you

431
00:32:30.079 --> 00:32:35.759
were around to at least see the
press was the Mantel case. Yeah.

432
00:32:35.799 --> 00:32:39.160
That was in I think February of
nineteen forty eight. That's what really I

433
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:46.200
got my attention. That was a
military pilot flying I think there were a

434
00:32:46.279 --> 00:32:54.079
group of three small aircraft that were
more or less chasing a very large,

435
00:32:55.680 --> 00:33:01.519
somewhat stationary object that was at a
great altitude of something like eighty thousand feet,

436
00:33:01.559 --> 00:33:08.920
which was tremendously high in those days. And two of the three planes

437
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:15.799
broke off the chase. But this
captain Mantel, I can't remember his first

438
00:33:15.880 --> 00:33:20.160
name right now, but he was
determined to get closer to the things,

439
00:33:20.200 --> 00:33:25.480
so he flew higher than the others
did before they broke off, and eventually

440
00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:32.559
he must have blanked out from lack
of oxygen because those planes at that time

441
00:33:32.640 --> 00:33:39.799
did not carry oxygen, and he
went too high for his equipment and whatever

442
00:33:39.920 --> 00:33:45.720
happened is still a matter of controversy, but it's known as a fact that

443
00:33:45.839 --> 00:33:52.160
his plane fell to the ground,
disintegrated into many pieces over a large area,

444
00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:59.279
and his body was mutilated in a
grotesque way, and that was all

445
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:04.119
it was to him. There were, of course, the people that took

446
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:09.599
the alarmist review. You might say
that he was apped by space people and

447
00:34:10.239 --> 00:34:15.000
put out a commission that way.
But the more likely answer, and less

448
00:34:15.079 --> 00:34:22.760
exciting one, is that he was
chasing a skyhook balloon. That project was

449
00:34:22.760 --> 00:34:28.440
a government project that was classified at
that time and was declassified later on.

450
00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.039
Well, so they never mentioned that
as an explored the nation at the time,

451
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:36.199
but certainly would be reasonable because those
things did go to a great height,

452
00:34:36.719 --> 00:34:39.840
and the thing that he was chasing
was not as many other UFOs have

453
00:34:40.000 --> 00:34:45.639
been through the years. Was not
moving quickly or radically or acting strange in

454
00:34:45.679 --> 00:34:51.039
any way. It was just sort
of fitting there. So I would personally

455
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:58.599
give the nod to the skyhookd balloon
theory. But that was a big deal

456
00:34:58.679 --> 00:35:01.280
to a lot of people and I
when I read that, and at that

457
00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:07.280
time, as a kid, I
believed the zepp by Martians SCENARIOO, and

458
00:35:07.400 --> 00:35:12.719
I thought, my god, there
really is something very strange and exciting going

459
00:35:12.760 --> 00:35:16.800
on here. Coming to get it, They're coming to get at Yeah.

460
00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:23.039
Well, so I sort of intensified
my interest in the subject after that,

461
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:30.480
and I was watching the papers,
I guess for more stories about flying saufics.

462
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:36.480
Now with the Kenneth Arnold case,
I think the prevailing idea for our

463
00:35:36.599 --> 00:35:40.400
answer for the skeptics is that,
I think, what reflections off of his

464
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:46.800
canopy watching the research over the years, do you think there's been a prosaic

465
00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.679
answer proposal. I never heard the
answer that you just gave. I heard

466
00:35:53.519 --> 00:35:59.760
it's not probably as crazy as it
sounds off. And but birds walk a

467
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:02.719
bird. They would have to have
been at a different distance than what he

468
00:36:02.920 --> 00:36:08.440
was estimating these craft to be.
But I mean there is some possibility there.

469
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:16.559
I in my view, I'm not
a professional person that can classify a

470
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.559
UFO case is being solved, unsolved, or whatever other categories there might be.

471
00:36:22.679 --> 00:36:28.079
But I would say the probability is
that it's an unknown, of which

472
00:36:28.119 --> 00:36:31.599
there are many. Some cases can
be solved, as you very well know,

473
00:36:31.760 --> 00:36:38.840
and some cannot. Now nineteen forty
eight, you've got really interested with

474
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:46.840
the mantel case. And what though, prompted you to actually get active in

475
00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:52.239
the field in the early fifties.
Well, what happened was in nineteen fifty

476
00:36:52.320 --> 00:37:00.159
three I met a professional writer.
His name was Ken Kirpene long forgotten now,

477
00:37:00.280 --> 00:37:05.079
but he was an adventure writer.
What was your name again, Krippine

478
00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:09.519
k r i Ppe. Okay,
have you heard of him? No?

479
00:37:09.559 --> 00:37:15.000
I don't think so now, Well, he's long gone and forgotten. He

480
00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:21.480
used to write for the true magazines, such as True That was the name

481
00:37:21.840 --> 00:37:27.800
of a magazine that was very big
at that time in Pargasy. And he

482
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:31.440
was a sort of exciting sort of
guy. And I met him. Long

483
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:37.239
story as to how I met him, but he was interested in my interest

484
00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:43.480
in flying saucers, and he agreed
that he was a published writer and I

485
00:37:43.599 --> 00:37:47.280
was still just a kid. He
agreed that he would co author a book

486
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:52.760
with me on the subjects of flying
saucers if I basically would do all the

487
00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.800
work, which was a good deal
for him, I guess. So I

488
00:37:58.280 --> 00:38:02.599
took that as a gung ho sort
of situation. I was out of school

489
00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.760
by then, and I had some
time and money, and I had a

490
00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:14.119
car, so I took a trip
for a period of i'd say seven or

491
00:38:14.119 --> 00:38:19.719
eight weeks, and I drove from
where I lived near New York City all

492
00:38:19.760 --> 00:38:25.559
the way out to California, through
a southern route through Texas and New Mexico

493
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:30.440
and so on, and then out
to Los Angeles, where I stayed for

494
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:36.000
a few days, and then came
back in a different route through the middle

495
00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:38.360
of the country. More and what
I did before I started, I got

496
00:38:38.440 --> 00:38:45.760
file cards from the books, the
early books that I had read on flying

497
00:38:45.800 --> 00:38:49.400
sauces, and there were several that
had come out by then. I took

498
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:54.920
the more interesting cases and put them
on filecards, with of course the name

499
00:38:54.960 --> 00:39:00.280
of the person and the address and
whatever else I could think of. And

500
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:06.760
my purpose was to see as many
as possible as I made this trip,

501
00:39:07.239 --> 00:39:12.440
and I don't know just how many
I saw, but I took detailed notes.

502
00:39:12.760 --> 00:39:15.880
Every night. I'd type up a
whole bunch of stuff when it was

503
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:22.039
still fresh in my mind as to
what I had learned that day from whoever

504
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:27.480
I had talked to, And there
was probably about fifty people. Some were

505
00:39:27.599 --> 00:39:34.000
scientists, some were primates who had
been in the papers for having seen UFOs,

506
00:39:34.639 --> 00:39:40.519
and some were scientists, all kinds
of any kind of person that would

507
00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:46.960
contribute something of interest or importance to
the subject. And I ended up with

508
00:39:47.039 --> 00:39:52.679
over one hundred pages of single space
typewritten notes, which I still have,

509
00:39:52.559 --> 00:39:59.880
and the idea to write a book
with this Ken Crapine never worked out.

510
00:40:00.159 --> 00:40:04.480
Turned out he was completely cynical about
the whole thing. I went to all

511
00:40:04.480 --> 00:40:10.760
this trouble to get this authentic information
and it really was something that nobody else

512
00:40:12.039 --> 00:40:15.239
had done, and the stuff I
got there is still of interest, or

513
00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.480
at least parts of it are,
But anyway, that really didn't impress him.

514
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.559
And what he wanted to do was
to make up a crazy contact each

515
00:40:22.599 --> 00:40:29.559
sort of story as the headline thing
for the book and then just use these

516
00:40:30.039 --> 00:40:34.519
true stories as stiller as a background. And I can see that I would

517
00:40:34.519 --> 00:40:39.320
be starting my literary career as well
as my ethological career if there is such

518
00:40:39.360 --> 00:40:44.480
a thing in a very negative way. I'd have to live this down if

519
00:40:44.519 --> 00:40:50.079
I ever could. So I just
gave up the whole idea and did nothing

520
00:40:50.519 --> 00:40:57.480
with Kencorpeene on this book. And
I'll just end this statement by saying it

521
00:40:57.559 --> 00:41:01.239
took me forty eight years after that
before I finally got the book out.

522
00:41:01.320 --> 00:41:06.800
That was in two thousand and two, when I finally met a co author

523
00:41:06.840 --> 00:41:09.719
that was far more rational, and
I had a lot more experience, and

524
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:15.639
things fell into place, and I
did get a book out by Prometheus Press

525
00:41:15.559 --> 00:41:22.079
in two thousand and two. What's
a book called Shockingly Close to the Truth,

526
00:41:22.880 --> 00:41:29.639
Confessions of a Grave Robbing Ufologist.
Did you rate Rob Graves on your

527
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:35.519
tour there? Well, you see
now most of the grave robbing stuff is

528
00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:39.360
not in the book because it's mainly
about flying sauces. But it's a hard

529
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:45.159
thing to explain. During the late
nineteen fifties, I did have a lot

530
00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:47.199
of time and money to burn,
you might say. And not only was

531
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:54.679
I starting as of nineteen fifty four
a flying saucer magazine, but I was

532
00:41:54.719 --> 00:42:00.679
also spending about half of my time
a treasure hunting in Peru, which is

533
00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:06.840
quite a different thing. But my
interests were sort of equally divided between the

534
00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:14.920
two quite different things. And my
purpose, or my hope in recent years

535
00:42:15.079 --> 00:42:19.440
was to write the one Saucier book, which I did write, and then

536
00:42:19.679 --> 00:42:22.199
follow it up with a book that
would only be about trager hunting, which

537
00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:28.440
is equally interesting to me. And
to a lot of other people but totally

538
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.000
different subjects. While again, to
make a lot of story short, my

539
00:42:31.079 --> 00:42:35.960
co author died. His name was
Carl Flock. I'm sure you know who

540
00:42:36.039 --> 00:42:42.760
Lee is or was, And we
lost our agent, our literary agent,

541
00:42:42.920 --> 00:42:46.199
and the book market changed, and
a whole lot of things went wrong,

542
00:42:46.280 --> 00:42:50.679
and I just don't think that book
will ever come out. But there is

543
00:42:50.719 --> 00:42:55.760
some references to trigger hunting in the
Saucer book that did come out, and

544
00:42:55.840 --> 00:43:00.519
I guess that's going to be about
the best I can do. It is

545
00:43:00.719 --> 00:43:05.840
tragic that your interviews didn't get printed
back in the fifties. That would have

546
00:43:05.880 --> 00:43:08.800
been something pretty groundbreaking for this period
of time. Yeah, well, some

547
00:43:08.960 --> 00:43:15.280
of that material was could I say
it was dated, of course, but

548
00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:21.280
I mean material that would be of
any interest at any time. I had

549
00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:28.280
interviews with Georgia Danski, who was
the leading contactee of those early days,

550
00:43:28.320 --> 00:43:34.119
and with Frank Scully, who wrote
Behind the Flying Sauces, which was the

551
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:40.320
first widely circulated pocketbook on the subject
of sauces, which came out in nineteen

552
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:45.760
fifty and I interviewed him in nineteen
fifty three on my tour. One of

553
00:43:45.760 --> 00:43:50.400
the other people I interviewed, and
I kid you not was Harry S.

554
00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:55.400
Truman. He was no longer president. That's another interesting story. He had

555
00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.840
a little office in Independence, Missouri
where he, as an ex president,

556
00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:05.639
would just go, I guess,
and do correspondence or whatever he might have

557
00:44:05.679 --> 00:44:10.599
done there. And I called him, I think on a Friday or Saturday,

558
00:44:10.679 --> 00:44:15.719
and he answered the phone himself,
and I made a sort of an

559
00:44:15.719 --> 00:44:21.360
appointment to see him on Monday.
It wasn't a precise time. He just

560
00:44:21.400 --> 00:44:23.239
said, well, I'll be here, he can come by Monday morning,

561
00:44:23.280 --> 00:44:29.400
and I did, and he probably
had somebody else that he was talking to

562
00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:32.039
in another room at the time.
I came to the door, and he

563
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:37.000
seemed to be in a hurry.
He didn't seem as pleasant about the hopefully

564
00:44:37.039 --> 00:44:42.039
as he had on the phone a
couple of days earlier. But he talked

565
00:44:42.039 --> 00:44:45.800
to me briefly, and there were
just the two of us there as far

566
00:44:45.840 --> 00:44:50.559
as I know. There was no
secret service or anything like that in those

567
00:44:50.599 --> 00:44:54.000
ways. He was alone in the
office except for whoever else he might have

568
00:44:54.079 --> 00:45:00.280
been talking to. But his quotable
quote, which of course I used in

569
00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:05.800
my book when I finally brought it
out, so many years later was I've

570
00:45:05.880 --> 00:45:10.400
never seen a purple cow. I
never hoped to see one. That was

571
00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:16.239
his way of saying that he did
not believe in flying sauces. And I

572
00:45:16.280 --> 00:45:21.480
thought that was kind of cud.
Yeah, that is really funny, and

573
00:45:21.519 --> 00:45:24.239
it's interesting because of course you have
so many rumors. And in fact,

574
00:45:24.360 --> 00:45:30.039
someone I talked to the other day
was talking as if it was well known

575
00:45:30.159 --> 00:45:34.000
that Truman was believed in UFOs and
stuff, and I was thinking, well,

576
00:45:34.039 --> 00:45:38.599
I don't know that that is known
at all. Well, that is

577
00:45:38.719 --> 00:45:49.480
very controversial. You know, there
is supposed to be this briefing document first,

578
00:45:49.679 --> 00:45:55.199
I guess of the MJ twelve documents, which would have been Truman sort

579
00:45:55.199 --> 00:46:04.159
of passing on the torture of UFO
College to the next president. And so

580
00:46:04.360 --> 00:46:08.840
if we believe all that kind of
thing, Truman knew about buying sauces and

581
00:46:08.960 --> 00:46:19.320
Eisenhower and everybody after him. But
I happened to personally believe all those documents

582
00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:23.599
are a fraudulent in one way or
another. They're not authentic at all,

583
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:31.039
And I think the more likely situation
is that Truman was more or less telling

584
00:46:31.079 --> 00:46:37.480
me the truth. I did meet
Truman one time, probably about ten years

585
00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:42.679
later, he came down to Clarksburg, West Virginia one weekend when I was

586
00:46:42.760 --> 00:46:49.280
visiting my friend Greg Barker, who
was another UFO publisher, and it just

587
00:46:49.360 --> 00:46:57.360
happened. Truman was there campaigning for
a Democrat who he supported, and he

588
00:46:57.480 --> 00:47:00.679
was there to back him, you
might say, to make his campaign more

589
00:47:00.719 --> 00:47:06.199
successful, nothing whatever to do with
flying sauces. Well, again, to

590
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:12.039
make a long story short, Gray
Barker and I got a photographic equipment and

591
00:47:12.119 --> 00:47:19.920
we crashed the press conference for Truman. I had phony press credentials, which

592
00:47:20.599 --> 00:47:25.360
passed in those days, nothing like
that would pass because everything is more precise

593
00:47:25.480 --> 00:47:29.960
and you can't get away with it
as much as you used to. But

594
00:47:30.039 --> 00:47:36.920
anyway, we joined the real press
for this press conference, and when my

595
00:47:37.079 --> 00:47:40.480
turn came, I spoke to Truman. And this was in a room with

596
00:47:40.639 --> 00:47:45.480
maybe thirty other people, so it
wasn't alone like the first time. And

597
00:47:45.519 --> 00:47:49.239
I said, well, mister Truman, I met you several years ago.

598
00:47:49.360 --> 00:47:53.719
You probably wouldn't remember it, but
I did ask you at that time about

599
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:59.920
flying sauces, and you indicated that
you did not believe in them. I

600
00:48:00.360 --> 00:48:05.199
didn't both the exact words that he
had used, because he might have thought

601
00:48:05.199 --> 00:48:10.880
I made it up long after,
and he might certainly not remember the exact

602
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:16.119
words that he used, But anyway, he gave a facetious answer. Oh,

603
00:48:16.199 --> 00:48:21.400
I'm not telling this right. My
turn didn't exactly come up. What

604
00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:28.199
happened was the Truman was getting bored
with this press covererence, and he was

605
00:48:28.239 --> 00:48:31.519
an outspoken man. He was a
very interesting guy, I'm sure. And

606
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:37.599
he said, you know, everywhere
I go people asked me the same kind

607
00:48:37.639 --> 00:48:45.519
of questions over and over. Doesn't
doesn't somebody here have an interesting question?

608
00:48:45.559 --> 00:48:52.599
And that was because my question was
one that would never come up otherwise,

609
00:48:52.199 --> 00:48:55.960
and he was delighted to hear it, and so was everybody in the room.

610
00:48:57.440 --> 00:49:00.800
It just the question itself brought the
house down, and Truman gave a

611
00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:06.960
facetious answer, which also got a
last and I repraised the question a couple

612
00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.559
of times and more laughter, and
finally I figured, well I've done enough

613
00:49:10.599 --> 00:49:13.519
of this, and I said,
well, thank you, miss the true

614
00:49:13.599 --> 00:49:17.360
and I sat down and that was
the height of the press corpace. Everybody

615
00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.840
enjoyed it. Oh, I'm sure
that was the perfect perfect timing. Yeah,

616
00:49:23.199 --> 00:49:28.039
yeah, I was very lucky.
Yeah, I've had some experiences in

617
00:49:28.079 --> 00:49:34.119
my life that are very interesting and
unusual in a lot of different ways.

618
00:49:34.599 --> 00:49:37.280
Speaking of interesting and unusual, one
of the people you brought up, and

619
00:49:37.320 --> 00:49:40.199
I have the book right in front
of me, went a really old copy

620
00:49:40.280 --> 00:49:45.440
too, because I use it a
lot for research is the Frank Scully one.

621
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:52.400
Because a lot of the crash ufo
crash stuff these days that people followed

622
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:57.760
come from the book. What did
you think of him and the cases he

623
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:04.559
covered? Well, there again,
it's very complicated. He either believed or

624
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:12.800
pretended to believe information that he had
received from a man named Silas Newton,

625
00:50:13.519 --> 00:50:20.119
and Simus Newton also had a friend
and partner named I think it was Leo

626
00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:27.920
Jibbauer, very close to that,
and it turned out as a different topic.

627
00:50:27.960 --> 00:50:38.280
I suppose these two men were rather
fraudulently promoting oil exploration. In other

628
00:50:38.320 --> 00:50:45.440
words, they were getting money from
people under false pretenses. But somewhere along

629
00:50:45.480 --> 00:50:52.920
the way they also got involved in
the flying saucer myths or whatever, and

630
00:50:52.440 --> 00:51:01.480
they had a story that they had
given to Scully about a flying saucer crash

631
00:51:01.920 --> 00:51:08.400
in nineteen forty eight or near the
town of Aztec, New Mexico. Now

632
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:17.400
that is not the Roswell crash,
And that's interesting the crash in Aztec by

633
00:51:17.599 --> 00:51:22.440
all accounts, and there is one
serious fellow who just in recent years has

634
00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:28.960
been trying to dredge up information to
prove it really happened. But in the

635
00:51:29.519 --> 00:51:36.400
opinion of most serious researchers, that
just was made up out of whole cloth

636
00:51:36.519 --> 00:51:44.960
by Scully and his friend. So
it's interesting that one year previous to that,

637
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:50.960
it was this supposed crash at Roswell
nineteen forty seven, and the Roswell

638
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:57.559
crash, if it did occur as
an interplanetary event, occurred just a couple

639
00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:02.440
of weeks after the Arnold Saucer,
So the public was all excited at that

640
00:52:02.599 --> 00:52:07.320
time, and that might have contributed
to the fact that people ended up thinking

641
00:52:07.360 --> 00:52:13.800
that that was a crash of something
from another planet. But anyway, Scully

642
00:52:15.159 --> 00:52:21.280
was the proponent of these stories.
I think the only one mentioned by name

643
00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:25.840
as to the location was Aztec,
but he also referred to a couple of

644
00:52:25.880 --> 00:52:30.400
others, one of which might have
been Roswell, but it wasn't named.

645
00:52:30.039 --> 00:52:36.360
And so this was a sensational book
by all means, and it sold very

646
00:52:36.760 --> 00:52:45.159
well in pocketbook and Scully had been
a writer for gossip about the movie business

647
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:51.239
and so forth. He had a
column in a variety which was, I

648
00:52:51.239 --> 00:52:58.159
think it still is, the weekly
newspaper of all kinds of show bis news.

649
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:04.440
So he was in the that type
of work and was well known for

650
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:07.519
that, but he had never had
anything to do with anything like sauces.

651
00:53:07.559 --> 00:53:14.239
So we got him into a new
type of enterprise and got him quite a

652
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:16.079
lot of fame and I supposed quite
a lot of money. Well, anyway,

653
00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:22.119
I interviewed him, and I didn't
get a very very good feeling that

654
00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:27.599
he was terribly serious about all that. And I also interviewed Silas Newton,

655
00:53:28.280 --> 00:53:34.519
and that also was interesting because Silas
Newton was from Colorado, and I think

656
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:43.119
he lived in Denver, and by
this time he had been indicted for fraud

657
00:53:43.320 --> 00:53:49.800
on this oil type of controversy that
I mentioned a moment ago nothing to do

658
00:53:49.840 --> 00:53:54.679
with flying sauces. But the day
that it was just a coincidence. But

659
00:53:54.760 --> 00:54:00.320
the day that I got to Denver
on my way back from California was just

660
00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:08.239
the very same day that the headline
in the Denver newspaper, and actually was

661
00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:16.800
the banner headline, this man had
been indicted for oil fraud or however they're

662
00:54:16.800 --> 00:54:21.599
worrying was. In other words,
it was just the worst or the best

663
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:25.239
day to run him. And he
was in the phone book and I found

664
00:54:25.519 --> 00:54:29.840
his name, and I figured,
well, you know this kind of thing,

665
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:34.320
he's going to be very unhappy and
certainly wouldn't want to see me.

666
00:54:34.519 --> 00:54:37.239
But he was very nice about it. He said, yeah, well,

667
00:54:37.599 --> 00:54:43.440
you know, this will get my
mind off this newspaper story that you've been

668
00:54:43.480 --> 00:54:46.239
reading, and I'd be very glad
to talk to you about flying sauces.

669
00:54:46.880 --> 00:54:51.480
So I went out that evening and
spent a few hours with him, and

670
00:54:51.519 --> 00:54:54.719
he told me all of his stories. But I certainly didn't take him terribly

671
00:54:55.239 --> 00:55:00.280
serious either, because, after all, if he was plug and the oil

672
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:05.239
business, why not assume that he
might also have been the same way in

673
00:55:05.280 --> 00:55:09.880
the least saucier business. Yeah,
gotcha. Well that's really interesting now.

674
00:55:12.599 --> 00:55:15.760
And then the other person you said
you interviewed, which is of course a

675
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:22.239
big chapter in this area in the
fifties, is Shortia dan Ski. Yeah,

676
00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:28.679
who you don't also didn't get a
good feeling about. Well, A

677
00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:32.039
Dansky was a different kind of person. He was likable. I mean,

678
00:55:32.880 --> 00:55:39.159
that might have been one of the
good things about him. I saw him.

679
00:55:40.239 --> 00:55:44.360
Let's see, he lived I can't
think of the name of it now,

680
00:55:44.400 --> 00:55:52.039
but in a rural area you might
say of southern California. And I

681
00:55:52.079 --> 00:55:57.440
don't remember now if I made it
an appointment or anything like that, but

682
00:55:58.000 --> 00:56:05.480
I knew somehow that he lived in
a rural trailer or something behind this restaurant,

683
00:56:05.519 --> 00:56:09.679
which was on the road up to
Mount Palomar, which was amusing because

684
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:15.519
a dance k he called himself Professor
Danski, and a lot of people got

685
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:20.960
confused. They thought he worked at
the observatory up at the top of the

686
00:56:21.000 --> 00:56:24.480
mountain. He had absolutely nothing to
do with that at all. Anyway,

687
00:56:24.519 --> 00:56:30.199
he was known, but he was
sort of whole court at this restaurant every

688
00:56:30.239 --> 00:56:35.039
afternoon, and I went and interviewed
him. I had a bunch of questions,

689
00:56:35.079 --> 00:56:38.280
of course, written out before I
got there, and he was very

690
00:56:39.239 --> 00:56:45.960
pleasant and very kind and patient answering
these questions. I'm sure he'd been asked

691
00:56:45.000 --> 00:56:51.760
all of it before, but for
a whole bunch of long winded reasons,

692
00:56:52.039 --> 00:56:57.119
his story just didn't hold true.
The main story that I was involved with

693
00:56:57.360 --> 00:57:02.960
talking to him about was the story
that occurred in his first book, which

694
00:57:04.079 --> 00:57:08.880
was his meeting on the desert somewhere
else near there in southern California, in

695
00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:15.599
which he and a group of six
witnesses drove out to a given point and

696
00:57:17.039 --> 00:57:22.920
parks I guess it was a mile
or two away, and saw supposedly a

697
00:57:22.960 --> 00:57:30.599
scout ship a small flying saucer land
on the desert, and a being came

698
00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:36.159
out, a humanoid looking being.
Well, Dansky left the other six people

699
00:57:36.239 --> 00:57:43.880
behind at the parking lot or whatever
and walked alone on the desert to go

700
00:57:43.920 --> 00:57:50.840
and have a private meeting with this
spaceman whose name I believe was Ashtar.

701
00:57:51.559 --> 00:57:55.719
And he was just a very handsome, human looking person. I guess you

702
00:57:55.960 --> 00:57:59.800
if you met him on the street, you wouldn't know he was a spaceman.

703
00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:06.800
And Adansky got all kinds of information
about Venus, which was the home

704
00:58:06.840 --> 00:58:14.000
planet of this Ashtar, and all
kinds of messages of sweetness and light and

705
00:58:14.320 --> 00:58:19.440
band the bomb and save the environment
and learning to get along with each other

706
00:58:19.480 --> 00:58:23.480
and all that kind of thing.
No specific information that we couldn't think of

707
00:58:23.599 --> 00:58:28.639
on our own, but still very
interesting. And that first book of A

708
00:58:28.719 --> 00:58:32.519
Dansky sold very very well. I
met A Dansky too, or three times

709
00:58:32.559 --> 00:58:38.000
after that, but I had no
reason to believe his story, and of

710
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:46.679
course we know through scientific research the
team about I guess years after that that

711
00:58:47.039 --> 00:58:52.480
the story had to be totally absurd
because the surface temperature of Venus is I

712
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:59.559
believe, seven hundred degrees and that
makes it hard for an ordinary human to

713
00:58:59.760 --> 00:59:06.320
live. There is difficult enough here
in Arizona. Yeah, exactly. Yeah,

714
00:59:06.360 --> 00:59:09.760
so that in itself made the story
very unlikely. I would think.

715
00:59:09.840 --> 00:59:17.000
I remember something about after the information
came out about the surface temperature of Venus,

716
00:59:17.360 --> 00:59:24.039
a dance exclaimed that it was Venus
Etheria. You see, that is

717
00:59:24.119 --> 00:59:30.159
the esteric double somehow of the planet
Venus. And of course Venus Etheria is

718
00:59:30.199 --> 00:59:37.480
a beautiful planet, sort of like
Aras and certainly not anything like Venus itself.

719
00:59:37.519 --> 00:59:42.320
So you know, the story held
up. It didn't matter. Now

720
00:59:42.320 --> 00:59:45.639
in the fifties, Adamski and a
lot of people have kind of forgotten this.

721
00:59:45.719 --> 00:59:49.360
It's kind of a forgotten chapter.
I think he wasn't the only contact.

722
00:59:49.480 --> 00:59:53.679
There were a lot of people claiming
to be speaking to spacemen. Yeah,

723
00:59:53.719 --> 01:00:01.920
well, there was Truman, Bedroom
Orfeo, Angelousi, Daniel and several

724
01:00:01.920 --> 01:00:07.719
others. Oh, Gabriel Greene was
one of my favorite. I can't really

725
01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:14.320
remember all of their stories, but
I met all of those and others because

726
01:00:14.440 --> 01:00:21.079
I didn't do this on my first
trip out to California in nineteen fifty three,

727
01:00:21.159 --> 01:00:24.360
but through the years I went at
least two or three times to these

728
01:00:24.840 --> 01:00:31.719
annual conventions that they had on the
desert, and they were run by another

729
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:42.440
contact he whose name was George vent
Tassel, and Ventassel lived with his wife

730
01:00:43.280 --> 01:00:50.920
out of the desert and he wanted
attention. I guess he had a little

731
01:00:51.159 --> 01:00:57.480
newsletter that he put out, but
once a year he hosted a giant outdoor

732
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:05.880
convention. It was a natural thing
called Giant Rock, which was an actual

733
01:01:06.480 --> 01:01:08.440
huge rock on the desert. I
don't know how it got there. There

734
01:01:08.519 --> 01:01:15.440
was nothing else like it nearby,
but certainly a landmark. And people would

735
01:01:15.440 --> 01:01:22.320
come out by the thousands to enjoy
the desert. And he built a platform

736
01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:27.800
on top of the rock with steps
going up to it and a microphone and

737
01:01:27.880 --> 01:01:34.400
all, and he would have people
speak to the masses from giant Rock itself,

738
01:01:35.119 --> 01:01:40.360
and it was quite an interesting scenario. And Van Tassel was another guy

739
01:01:40.440 --> 01:01:45.880
I liked. He was very kind
and gentle, and he knew very well

740
01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:52.639
from my reputation, because by that
time I was already putting out my saucer

741
01:01:52.679 --> 01:01:58.159
magazine, Sauter News, which took
a partially skeptical view at least about the

742
01:01:58.400 --> 01:02:02.480
Cartextes. Was very nice to me
and let me speak from the rock also,

743
01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.519
and I think I didn't speak too
long. I didn't have that much

744
01:02:07.559 --> 01:02:13.639
to say to a crowd of this
sort, but any anything like that was

745
01:02:13.800 --> 01:02:20.360
very genial on the part of the
Van Tassel. He also built, supposedly

746
01:02:21.000 --> 01:02:25.880
from plans or knowledge given to him
by the space Peel, he built a

747
01:02:27.119 --> 01:02:34.960
thing called the Integratron. I'm just
struggling to remember these things after early years.

748
01:02:35.000 --> 01:02:38.639
The other time was a circular building. It was a dome. It

749
01:02:38.719 --> 01:02:47.320
looked like a astronomical observatory of some
sort, and it was never finished.

750
01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:52.239
Really, the dome was finished,
but there was supposed to be some equipment,

751
01:02:52.679 --> 01:03:01.840
some machinery inside it that would sort
of juvenate people, makes them feel

752
01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:07.639
younger and maybe even look younger.
It didn't give you eternal life, but

753
01:03:07.719 --> 01:03:14.760
it did certain very good things for
you through some kind of vibrations that came

754
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:20.400
from these machines. Well, the
money, I think the information might have

755
01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:24.679
come with the money didn't to complete
all these machines that were supposed to go

756
01:03:24.760 --> 01:03:31.199
inside the integratron, so it became
a point of interest of course for tourists.

757
01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:36.519
Anyhow, it was usually locked up. One time, I forget how,

758
01:03:36.639 --> 01:03:39.400
but I was with somebody that had
a key and I did get inside

759
01:03:39.480 --> 01:03:45.320
and it was just a big building. I forget what the diameter was,

760
01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:53.360
maybe fifty or seventy feet and just
empty. But it was an interesting experience

761
01:03:53.400 --> 01:03:57.920
to see you see the inside of
the thing. Well, finally, Fan

762
01:03:58.000 --> 01:04:05.559
Tassel died these conventions going through the
fifties and sixties and then died sometime in

763
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:10.719
the seventies. He never did finish
the integratron, but it's still there.

764
01:04:11.119 --> 01:04:15.159
It's passed through different hands over the
years, and I forget what it's being

765
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:20.719
used for right now, but it's
always had some New Age connotation all through

766
01:04:20.760 --> 01:04:25.719
these years. Yeah, I think
people do two words and they talk about

767
01:04:25.800 --> 01:04:29.079
man task, and they also do
meditations and things like that. Yeah,

768
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:34.119
Well, they've had marriages there and
they've had meditations there, and actually i'd

769
01:04:34.199 --> 01:04:40.360
forgotten it may have died out now, but just in very recent years.

770
01:04:40.400 --> 01:04:45.719
As recently as a year or two
ago, they started having annual conventions at

771
01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:53.159
the Integratron, but they didn't catch
on. Oh what is his name,

772
01:04:53.840 --> 01:04:58.960
Paul Kimball, you know who he
is, was out there a couple of

773
01:04:59.079 --> 01:05:02.079
years ago. I guess she spoke
there and it was only about fifty people,

774
01:05:02.119 --> 01:05:06.519
which was a very disappointing crowd.
And I don't remember if that was

775
01:05:06.519 --> 01:05:11.079
the last one or whether they went
on with it, but it just didn't

776
01:05:11.119 --> 01:05:14.480
catch on for some reason. I
don't know. It's amazing that they were

777
01:05:14.519 --> 01:05:16.880
able to get thousands of people in
the middle of the desert in the summer,

778
01:05:17.000 --> 01:05:20.239
you know, and the heat and
everything, and it looks like from

779
01:05:20.320 --> 01:05:25.519
the pictures it's not like people had
much cover out there. Well some did,

780
01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:30.880
some didn't. People came in their
cars and the trailers and so forth.

781
01:05:31.000 --> 01:05:33.400
I mean, you know, you
could bring anything that you wanted.

782
01:05:33.440 --> 01:05:41.599
There was no accommodations, actually there
there was. I think the nearest real

783
01:05:41.639 --> 01:05:45.960
town was twenty nine Palms, which
was about twenty miles away, and there

784
01:05:46.000 --> 01:05:50.559
were a few motels there. I
stayed there at least once. I think

785
01:05:51.039 --> 01:05:56.840
I never slept actually out on the
desert, but it was a thrill.

786
01:05:56.960 --> 01:06:02.639
It was something interesting and and different. And yeah, I might add that

787
01:06:02.679 --> 01:06:10.880
there were some drugs involved in those
days. Now do you out of all

788
01:06:10.920 --> 01:06:15.679
those people claiming to speak to extraterrestrials, do you believe any of them?

789
01:06:15.039 --> 01:06:18.360
People like Fantassel, who you said
seem like a nice, genuine person.

790
01:06:18.440 --> 01:06:25.159
Well, you know, I was
reading something I guess by Nick Redfern just

791
01:06:25.199 --> 01:06:29.199
the other day. There might have
been somebody else, you know the Yeah,

792
01:06:29.239 --> 01:06:31.800
he wrote about it recently. Yeah, the contact these are getting like

793
01:06:31.880 --> 01:06:38.159
a second look. And now the
whole sety of youthology, I think is

794
01:06:38.159 --> 01:06:41.440
getting more complicated. And I'm glad
that it is, because it's not just

795
01:06:42.440 --> 01:06:47.840
spacemen from another planet anymore or other
theories. But people are saying, maybe

796
01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:54.320
these contact these did have experiences of
some kind, or at least some of

797
01:06:54.360 --> 01:07:00.199
them did, might have been not
physical, but the goal or whatever you

798
01:07:00.239 --> 01:07:05.239
want to call it, and so
they may have had some truth and some

799
01:07:05.719 --> 01:07:10.440
validity and what they were doing,
and that they shouldn't be written off completely.

800
01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:14.480
And I think there's something to that, and I think it's worth exploring.

801
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.280
I don't know how we could ever
get to the bottom of it.

802
01:07:16.320 --> 01:07:24.920
But it's very interesting now you kind
of that leads to your overall views.

803
01:07:24.960 --> 01:07:30.000
And I like this quote. I
mentioned it before because it kind of is

804
01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:38.880
Jerome's clerk take on your views that
you've entertained just about every view possible to

805
01:07:38.960 --> 01:07:45.360
hold about UFOs without ever managing to
say anything especially interesting or memorable about any

806
01:07:45.400 --> 01:07:46.840
of them. And of course,
yeah, at the time, he didn't

807
01:07:46.840 --> 01:07:54.239
mean that to be a compliment.
Now he didn't. Are you reciting that

808
01:07:54.360 --> 01:07:57.679
from memory or do you have the
actual quotes? No, actually I have

809
01:07:57.800 --> 01:08:01.000
the quote. Did he say seeing
or memorable? Is that what he said?

810
01:08:01.519 --> 01:08:06.800
Yeah? Yeah, I didn't manage
to say anything especially interesting or memorable.

811
01:08:09.079 --> 01:08:13.559
Well, Jerry Clark has a sharp
tongue in a sharp pen, and

812
01:08:14.519 --> 01:08:18.640
I won't begrudge him as a particular
remark, because there's a lot of truth

813
01:08:18.680 --> 01:08:25.720
that there was a period of time
I said that I believe that the sauces

814
01:08:25.760 --> 01:08:30.159
were all earth made by our government
and other governments, and then I went

815
01:08:30.319 --> 01:08:36.119
in a planetary and then I went
specifically to the idea that they come from

816
01:08:36.159 --> 01:08:41.760
Mars, because I forget just what
it was. At that time, it

817
01:08:41.880 --> 01:08:47.880
seemed Mars was terribly likely to have
intelligent life, and indeed it may still

818
01:08:48.720 --> 01:08:54.399
turn out to have some kind of
life even if there's just micros. Oh

819
01:08:54.479 --> 01:09:00.279
yeah. And people still were influenced
by the canals on Mars, which had

820
01:09:00.319 --> 01:09:08.199
been discovered by what's his name,
Precival Lowell back around the turn of the

821
01:09:08.279 --> 01:09:15.119
century. And you can see pictures
of what is seen through the telescope,

822
01:09:15.239 --> 01:09:20.479
and there are these markings that look
very much like straight lines. Where the

823
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:25.720
trouble is, as we've got better
telescopes later on, you can see that

824
01:09:25.720 --> 01:09:30.000
that's just an optical illusion. There
are no straight lines on Mars. But

825
01:09:31.039 --> 01:09:34.840
if you think that there are,
and if you tie that in with the

826
01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:44.239
big wave sightings of little men landing
on this planet, especially in Europe and

827
01:09:44.319 --> 01:09:47.600
South America in the early nineteen fifties, if you put all that together,

828
01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:54.039
you can start believing in Martians.
And so I got onto that, and

829
01:09:54.079 --> 01:09:59.239
then I guess back to the general
interplanetary feeling of it now in the last

830
01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:04.680
teen or twenty years at least,
I'm interdimensional or whatever you want to call

831
01:10:04.760 --> 01:10:14.640
it. I think that it's something
far more complex than simple spaceships coming from

832
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:21.319
physical planets are away in the universe
now Stanton Friedman insists that that is the

833
01:10:21.359 --> 01:10:26.600
case, and I suppose theoretically it
could be. I mean, there's no

834
01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:31.920
limit to the amount of advancement that
some other civilization might have, and these

835
01:10:31.920 --> 01:10:38.680
tremendous distances might be no problem for
them at all. But there are a

836
01:10:38.720 --> 01:10:43.640
lot of reasons to think that that
probably isn't the answer. And it's a

837
01:10:43.680 --> 01:10:47.399
long story here, but I think
you and I talked about it last time.

838
01:10:48.720 --> 01:10:57.279
The behavior of the sources themselves makes
you feel immediately that this is not

839
01:10:57.920 --> 01:11:03.800
the way intelligent creatures from somewhere else
would behave. Among other things, they

840
01:11:03.880 --> 01:11:12.840
lie, I mean, not only
did the contact ease learn somewhat different messages

841
01:11:12.960 --> 01:11:20.399
from each space person that they've met, but there are another instances of creatures

842
01:11:20.520 --> 01:11:27.319
or little men or whatever saying things
in more recent years which have also not

843
01:11:27.479 --> 01:11:33.239
been true. And the whole methodology
of what they do they just don't have

844
01:11:33.279 --> 01:11:38.560
any coherent pattern to it. But
I think the most telling thing, and

845
01:11:38.680 --> 01:11:43.319
there's no explanation for this at all, when you get down to the UFO

846
01:11:43.479 --> 01:11:47.359
cases that probably are genuine and weed
out all the ones that are errors or

847
01:11:47.359 --> 01:11:51.520
hoaxes or whatever else might be wrong. When you get just to the genuine

848
01:11:51.560 --> 01:11:57.439
ones, and especially the ones where
there's enough detail where you can tell exactly

849
01:11:57.520 --> 01:12:02.039
what we're seeing. All these things
different. There's no two that are exactly

850
01:12:02.079 --> 01:12:06.520
alike. Now, you know,
to take a simple analogy, I mean

851
01:12:06.560 --> 01:12:12.920
with automobiles. If you're seeing automobiles
from a distance, or you're on another

852
01:12:12.920 --> 01:12:16.880
planet trying to figure out what an
automobile is, and you're looking at these

853
01:12:16.920 --> 01:12:21.720
things, well, they're all slightly
different, but they are basically, in

854
01:12:21.760 --> 01:12:27.479
most ways almost the same, and
you can reach a conclusion there is something

855
01:12:27.560 --> 01:12:30.520
here. It's an automobile, and
it looks approximately like this, this and

856
01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:34.079
this, and that's what it will
always look like. But that isn't the

857
01:12:34.119 --> 01:12:40.000
way. With the sources. They
are as if deliberately different. There is

858
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:44.600
no coherent pattern. The light patterns
are different, the shapes are different.

859
01:12:44.960 --> 01:12:48.319
When creatures come out, they always
look different. They don't come out looking

860
01:12:48.520 --> 01:12:55.840
like idealized humans like they did in
contact the days. Now they either look

861
01:12:56.000 --> 01:13:00.439
like these grays who are not particularly
handsome, or there are little men that's

862
01:13:00.760 --> 01:13:04.920
gone out of style now, but
in the fifties that was very big little

863
01:13:04.960 --> 01:13:10.239
men that looked just about like us. I guess dwarfs. We don't see

864
01:13:10.279 --> 01:13:15.560
them much any anymore, and there's
no consistency in the way they look in

865
01:13:15.960 --> 01:13:19.399
the messages or the way the craft
looks. So yeah, somebody is playing

866
01:13:19.560 --> 01:13:23.079
with us, you see. That's
what I think it is. Yeah,

867
01:13:23.119 --> 01:13:25.319
well, that's why I was going
to mention. I think that a lot

868
01:13:25.359 --> 01:13:29.279
of conventional scientists has a problem with
this field and it's difficult to study,

869
01:13:29.760 --> 01:13:34.560
and a lot of researchers have but
get frustrated that it's so enigmatic, and

870
01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:41.560
I get to feeling, like you
mentioned it enigmatic by design. Yes,

871
01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:45.319
I think that is the pattern,
that there is no pattern. There's one

872
01:13:45.359 --> 01:13:48.479
thing I hadn't thought of when I
talked to you the other time, and

873
01:13:48.520 --> 01:13:56.159
that is you're familiar with the Project
Blue Books in the fifties. That was

874
01:13:56.239 --> 01:14:02.760
the program that the Air Force had
to study UFO cases and try to figure

875
01:14:02.760 --> 01:14:09.760
out what they were. Well,
there was Project blue Book reports I guess

876
01:14:09.840 --> 01:14:13.920
number one through twelve, and it's
a different story, but I was able

877
01:14:13.960 --> 01:14:20.760
to get to the Pentagon one time
and actually see those Blue Book volumes,

878
01:14:21.159 --> 01:14:25.920
which no other researcher I don't think
ever, was able to do. It

879
01:14:26.000 --> 01:14:30.760
was again just blind look on my
part. But after twelve, for some

880
01:14:30.840 --> 01:14:34.439
reason, they skipped thirteen. Although
there are rumors that there was a thirteen

881
01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:39.359
that was totally different from any of
the others, but I think that's more

882
01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:45.000
garbage. But that's again another story. There was a fourteen which was supposed

883
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:50.640
to be a recap of the other
twelve. And what they did they actually

884
01:14:50.760 --> 01:14:59.359
tried. They went to a statistition
or a outfit I ford get the name

885
01:14:59.399 --> 01:15:04.760
of it, a well known military
outset that would crunch the numbers, so

886
01:15:04.880 --> 01:15:09.840
to speak, and try to get
to the bottom of the whole thing.

887
01:15:09.880 --> 01:15:14.159
Well, for one thing, they
found that the number of unknowns was a

888
01:15:14.199 --> 01:15:18.159
lot larger than the Air Force had
ever admitted, and that was one thing

889
01:15:18.279 --> 01:15:23.800
that was very interesting and important.
But another thing was, and I just

890
01:15:24.039 --> 01:15:27.399
happened to think about this a couple
of days ago for the first time in

891
01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:32.039
years, the best thing that they
did in this project blue book before at

892
01:15:32.079 --> 01:15:39.039
fourteen, which was quite large and
had all kinds of statistics in it.

893
01:15:39.119 --> 01:15:45.600
But what they did they took the
six cases that had the most detail and

894
01:15:45.520 --> 01:15:50.079
tried to well, First they put
in a drawing of each of the six,

895
01:15:50.199 --> 01:15:55.079
and then the purpose was to see
if they looked like each other,

896
01:15:55.520 --> 01:16:01.199
and all six looked completely different.
And that's where that idea came up,

897
01:16:01.399 --> 01:16:04.960
I think the first time, that
they are all different. And furthermore,

898
01:16:05.600 --> 01:16:12.079
scientists seeing that, or anyone else
that goes by old fashioned logic would say,

899
01:16:12.439 --> 01:16:15.640
well, it's nonsense, because if
it was real, they don all

900
01:16:15.680 --> 01:16:21.680
tend to look alike, as in
the analogy of the automobile. So that's

901
01:16:21.720 --> 01:16:31.880
where it became obvious that this was
a phenomenon that was not subject to normal

902
01:16:32.520 --> 01:16:38.840
interpretation. Yeah, you know,
along those lines of scientific inquiry which kind

903
01:16:38.840 --> 01:16:45.079
of came to those sorts of conclusions
was the Hunt for the Skinwalkers the ranch

904
01:16:45.119 --> 01:16:51.560
in Utah by Bigelows Group NID and
I talked to Coombe Tellahar and the skin

905
01:16:51.640 --> 01:16:55.640
Walker. I kind of got that
idea right when I saw the title,

906
01:16:55.720 --> 01:16:59.560
because although the Skinwalkers, you know, this kind of which a legend in

907
01:16:59.640 --> 01:17:03.840
Native American history, I've always got
it akin to the Trickster, because you

908
01:17:03.880 --> 01:17:06.920
know, I've been I've got a
background in Native American history, and I've

909
01:17:08.119 --> 01:17:13.039
always been interested in that idea,
and come they kind of said they felt

910
01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:16.680
that way that with all their science, with all their technology and their resources.

911
01:17:17.159 --> 01:17:23.560
This phenomenon seemed to have an intelligence
that was always one step ahead of

912
01:17:23.600 --> 01:17:28.000
them, where they really couldn't figure
anything out. Yeah, there was a

913
01:17:28.000 --> 01:17:35.279
book that by George Knapp and somebody
else co Walter did ahone member Colla lead

914
01:17:35.359 --> 01:17:41.119
scientists within. Oh yeah, I
wish I had read that, because that

915
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:46.880
must be very interesting. And as
you say, I think for a period

916
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:54.279
of several months, a group of
real scientists with real equipment. This was

917
01:17:54.319 --> 01:18:01.279
all paid for by what is a
bigelow right old bought the ranch and because

918
01:18:01.279 --> 01:18:06.199
it was haunted, so to speak, and spent his money to send these

919
01:18:06.239 --> 01:18:14.880
people out in a scientific expedition.
And actually my understanding is they were never

920
01:18:14.960 --> 01:18:18.880
actually able to prove anything. As
you say, it is the proof always

921
01:18:19.039 --> 01:18:27.880
escapes them, as if something was
working intelligently against them so that there would

922
01:18:27.960 --> 01:18:32.920
be no proof. And that may
be very true in the UFO field also,

923
01:18:33.239 --> 01:18:39.199
in which case we have extremely little
chance of ever solving this in the

924
01:18:40.399 --> 01:18:47.720
foreseeable future. Now, the enigmatic
nature in some cases gets people really frustrated.

925
01:18:48.760 --> 01:18:54.159
Another thing that causes a lot of
frustration is a lot of the infighting

926
01:18:54.199 --> 01:18:57.560
and the egos. And I was
wondering, you know, which was it

927
01:18:57.720 --> 01:19:01.319
or was it a combination or was
it either of these? Kind of had

928
01:19:01.359 --> 01:19:08.960
you evolved in going to create sawcer
Smear, which is kind of more humor

929
01:19:08.960 --> 01:19:15.119
and gossip. Well, originally,
beginning in nineteen fifty four, I had

930
01:19:15.119 --> 01:19:21.319
a more conventional you might say,
UFO magazine called Saucer News, and I

931
01:19:21.359 --> 01:19:27.279
would have articles by contributors, people
that were known in the field. I

932
01:19:27.319 --> 01:19:30.439
would try to keep up with the
latest sightings, which was hard to do

933
01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:34.079
because in the fifties, as I
told you, I was in the Peru

934
01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:40.239
treasure hunting half the time. So
I don't know myself how I managed to

935
01:19:40.319 --> 01:19:44.159
keep this magazine going at the same
time I was out of the country.

936
01:19:44.720 --> 01:19:46.920
I mean I'd be out of the
country a month or two and then back

937
01:19:46.960 --> 01:19:50.840
a month or two. But I
kept both of these scenes going at the

938
01:19:50.840 --> 01:20:00.600
same time. But anyway, when
I reached the mid nineteen seventies, for

939
01:20:00.800 --> 01:20:04.600
whatever reason, I just got tired
of doing it that way, and I

940
01:20:04.800 --> 01:20:10.039
figured, well, I want to
go on with this, but from here

941
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:14.880
on it's just going to be me
whatever I want to write, and I'm

942
01:20:14.920 --> 01:20:17.600
not going to try to keep up
with sightings and I'm not going to have

943
01:20:17.720 --> 01:20:25.119
articles by other experts. I'm just
going to do anything that I want and

944
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:33.479
be interesting, hopefully and humorous and
cynical and whatever I care to be.

945
01:20:33.560 --> 01:20:41.239
And by that time I had reached
I think my present the belief that three

946
01:20:41.399 --> 01:20:46.279
D sauces from another planet was not
the answer, and I went on speculating

947
01:20:46.319 --> 01:20:54.159
about the other possible answers. So
that's how Sauces Smera began, and I

948
01:20:54.199 --> 01:21:00.239
think it's improved over the years,
but the mailing list has declined because of

949
01:21:00.319 --> 01:21:03.560
a lot of factors, one of
them of course being the Internet. Since

950
01:21:03.600 --> 01:21:10.960
I'm not on the Net and it's
only a print magazine. It's trying to

951
01:21:11.000 --> 01:21:15.760
pass a to that extent, and
we'll go its way into history I suppose

952
01:21:15.520 --> 01:21:18.960
before it too long. But anyway, Yeah, that's how softy news began.

953
01:21:19.720 --> 01:21:24.039
A soutis smear on it, uh
huh. Yeah, there's a lot

954
01:21:24.079 --> 01:21:26.960
of fun and like I like to
call it kind of a guilty pleasure,

955
01:21:28.039 --> 01:21:31.880
but because I love to read it
every time in your humor is really funny,

956
01:21:31.920 --> 01:21:35.720
and plus I guess it's kind of
an insider thing because you got to

957
01:21:35.760 --> 01:21:41.720
knew who these researchers are, and
then the better you know them, the

958
01:21:41.800 --> 01:21:45.640
more humorous. Well that's right.
I mean, if somebody tries to read

959
01:21:45.680 --> 01:21:50.239
this, it has no background of
knowing who the people are that I'm talking

960
01:21:50.279 --> 01:21:56.399
about. I mean, what fun
is it to read an expose a of

961
01:21:56.479 --> 01:22:02.560
a person you've never heard of to
begin with? Uh? Like these days

962
01:22:03.359 --> 01:22:09.279
kind of off the subject. But
I am still interested in reading things like

963
01:22:09.359 --> 01:22:14.479
the National Inquirer. And there's two
others that go with it, the same

964
01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:17.520
kind of scandal sheets. I can't
remember the name of them right now,

965
01:22:17.800 --> 01:22:23.039
but you know I go through them
quite quickly. I read the exposed as

966
01:22:23.039 --> 01:22:27.079
on the people I've heard of and
I'm interested in, and most of the

967
01:22:27.119 --> 01:22:31.640
actors and actresses that they are exposing
for fighting with their wife or taking drugs

968
01:22:31.800 --> 01:22:35.359
or whatever they're doing wrong. I
mean, I skip it because I don't

969
01:22:35.359 --> 01:22:40.880
know who it is. Why do
I care what somebody is doing if I

970
01:22:40.920 --> 01:22:45.600
don't know who they are to begin
with. So sorceress smear is just for

971
01:22:45.680 --> 01:22:50.720
the people that are in the know, I guess, and interested in that

972
01:22:51.000 --> 01:22:57.159
aspect of what's going on in the
saucer field. I also, and I

973
01:22:57.960 --> 01:23:03.960
know that your magazine Open Minds does
the same thing. I also rehash some

974
01:23:04.119 --> 01:23:10.920
of the classic cases from the past
because another thing that I think we talked

975
01:23:10.920 --> 01:23:15.960
about last time, beginning in about
nineteen eighty and for whatever reason, I

976
01:23:15.000 --> 01:23:19.680
don't know, and I don't think
anybody knows, but the close up cases

977
01:23:19.720 --> 01:23:26.640
that have enough proof or near proof
and detail to make you say, well,

978
01:23:26.760 --> 01:23:30.840
something certainly had to have happen here. It can't be just lights in

979
01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:35.600
the sky or somebody making a mistake. Those kinds of cases just don't seem

980
01:23:35.680 --> 01:23:42.399
to happen anymore for whatever reason.
And so it's interesting to go back over

981
01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:47.079
some of the well known cases of
the past and rehash them and try to

982
01:23:47.600 --> 01:23:51.439
continue to figure out what they really
might be well. And I think what

983
01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:58.119
for better or worse, since the
media doesn't pay much attention to this field,

984
01:23:58.680 --> 01:24:00.680
is that a lot of people don't
know about those old cases. They

985
01:24:00.720 --> 01:24:05.039
get and it was the same for
me when I got involved. But people

986
01:24:05.039 --> 01:24:09.479
get involved with the interested in the
field and they start to read books and

987
01:24:09.520 --> 01:24:14.239
everything, and then they know what
happens from when they got involved onwards,

988
01:24:14.239 --> 01:24:17.560
but they don't know a lot about
the history. And so for I found

989
01:24:18.039 --> 01:24:24.079
rehashing a lot of those old cases
is very eye opening for people. Yeah,

990
01:24:24.159 --> 01:24:26.640
well, you do a lot of
that and open minds. Yeah,

991
01:24:26.880 --> 01:24:33.119
yeah, and Golling I have enjoyed
that aspect of your magazine, I think

992
01:24:33.199 --> 01:24:38.239
more than any other because there are
some of those old cases that are better

993
01:24:38.279 --> 01:24:41.600
known than others, and even the
ones that you've heard of, you're going

994
01:24:41.640 --> 01:24:45.439
to forget the details, and it's
very interesting to reread those things. Yeah.

995
01:24:45.520 --> 01:24:48.000
Well, and like you've said,
there's been waves. You talked about

996
01:24:48.000 --> 01:24:55.560
how in the sightings in the fifties
and there were lots of landings where entities

997
01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:58.960
were seen, and then you have
the sending seventies, which was a lot

998
01:24:59.000 --> 01:25:03.159
of sightings, and then more often, like you said, there's a kind

999
01:25:03.159 --> 01:25:10.159
of not as many of these physical
type of landings and stuff with these evidence,

1000
01:25:11.199 --> 01:25:14.800
and then you move it morphed into
the abduction things, so it does

1001
01:25:14.920 --> 01:25:19.079
change. Well, yeah, I
remember, I'm trying to remember if it

1002
01:25:19.159 --> 01:25:26.239
was fifty two or fifty four,
but there was one summer where there were

1003
01:25:26.399 --> 01:25:30.600
just dozens of these cases, especially
from France, and they, as usual,

1004
01:25:30.760 --> 01:25:36.119
the craft all looked different and the
behavior of the occupants was different,

1005
01:25:36.199 --> 01:25:45.199
but there was some consistency and there
were little creatures that looked, I guess

1006
01:25:45.319 --> 01:25:49.920
like doors or midgets, and we
don't get that anymore. I mean,

1007
01:25:50.239 --> 01:25:57.720
it's just very peculiar how these things
do go in waves for reasons that are

1008
01:25:57.760 --> 01:26:02.560
not explained by anybody. M Well, it seems like we were able to

1009
01:26:02.560 --> 01:26:05.239
cover a lot more last time.
Maybe that just means I'll have to have

1010
01:26:05.279 --> 01:26:10.159
you on again, but we're pretty
much out of time. Do you want

1011
01:26:10.199 --> 01:26:14.560
to give people the address? Though? Because people can subscriber get on the

1012
01:26:14.600 --> 01:26:16.479
list, I think you call them
non subscribers. Yeah, you too.

1013
01:26:16.640 --> 01:26:21.800
Well, the reason I call them
non subscribers is because I've found it convenient

1014
01:26:21.960 --> 01:26:27.520
not to set a price. If
I set a price, then those that

1015
01:26:27.880 --> 01:26:31.479
want to will send that amount,
and certainly no more than that amount.

1016
01:26:31.560 --> 01:26:35.479
But if I don't set a price, there are a few people who will

1017
01:26:35.520 --> 01:26:40.800
send far more than the set price. You see. So, in other

1018
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:45.319
words, more or less, I
think I come out ahead by not setting

1019
01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:49.319
a price. So you send what
you want, but it better be generous,

1020
01:26:49.439 --> 01:26:56.159
That's all I can say. And
it's saucers smear just two words.

1021
01:26:56.279 --> 01:27:04.640
Saucer s me a R box one
seven oh nine key West to words key

1022
01:27:04.840 --> 01:27:12.560
West, Florida three three oh four
to one, and it would be interesting

1023
01:27:12.880 --> 01:27:17.920
if they mentioned that they heard me
on this show, because I've been I'll

1024
01:27:17.920 --> 01:27:21.880
be honest with you, I've been
on a number of these internet shows and

1025
01:27:23.239 --> 01:27:27.239
I don't get a whole lot of
response, but it'll be interesting to see

1026
01:27:27.279 --> 01:27:30.479
what happens. And this year marks
thirty years you've been doing it? Is

1027
01:27:30.520 --> 01:27:35.399
that correct? Doing what saucae smear? Yes? Well yeah, I think

1028
01:27:35.640 --> 01:27:42.239
I changed it from saucer News to
sausage Smear, I think in nineteen seventy

1029
01:27:42.319 --> 01:27:46.680
six, so that's more less the
eighty sixth nineteen thirty five years about you?

1030
01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:50.239
Okay, yep, all right,
well, thank you so much for

1031
01:27:50.279 --> 01:27:55.920
being on the show. Well,
thank you for having me back, and

1032
01:27:56.000 --> 01:28:00.319
I'm sorry about what happened last time, and we'll see where we go from

1033
01:28:00.319 --> 01:28:06.960
here. Right, great to have
him on. Remember that address is PO

1034
01:28:08.079 --> 01:28:12.840
box one, seven oh nine,
Key West, Florida, three three zero

1035
01:28:13.039 --> 01:28:16.199
four to one. Remember to tell
him you heard about him on Open Minds

1036
01:28:16.319 --> 01:28:21.640
Radio. And he was kidding,
of course about the donation having to be

1037
01:28:21.840 --> 01:28:27.560
generous. That would be nice,
but he takes practically anything, so and

1038
01:28:27.680 --> 01:28:30.279
it is a funny, very very
He's got a great sense of humor.

1039
01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:34.000
I hear here is more serious talking
eupology, but his sausage smear is very

1040
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:41.239
funny. Next week we have Don
Schmidt. He's actually going to be one

1041
01:28:41.279 --> 01:28:45.760
of the speakers at the Kingman conference
we talked about earlier, and so we'll

1042
01:28:45.800 --> 01:28:49.359
talk to him about that. But
he is the pre eminent roswelt Well,

1043
01:28:49.399 --> 01:28:53.720
one of the main Roswell's researchers,
So we'll talk to him a bit about

1044
01:28:53.720 --> 01:28:57.840
a great article he has in our
magazine coming out in just a couple of

1045
01:28:57.920 --> 01:29:02.680
weeks, which is about Oswell and
all of the deathbed confessions and the witnesses

1046
01:29:03.800 --> 01:29:09.079
who say they saw a little creature
that survived the crash. So he also

1047
01:29:09.119 --> 01:29:14.239
worked for j Allen Heinek and he's
also got an illustrious UFO career. So

1048
01:29:14.319 --> 01:29:16.800
next week, Don Schmidt, thanks
for listening to Open Minds Radio. Don't

1049
01:29:16.800 --> 01:29:21.199
forget to visit Openminds dot tv for
more UFO news. We'll talk to you

1050
01:29:21.239 --> 01:29:21.720
next week.